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EU scientists say Volcanoes, Asteroids are unimaginably worse than climate change

Experts say that climate change is the worst threat we face, except for the worse ones.

Scientists warn over super-volcano threat

Experts at the European Science Foundation said volcanoes – especially super-volcanoes like the one at Yellowstone National Park, Wyoming, which has a caldera measuring 34 by 45 miles (55 by 72 km) – pose more threat to Earth and the survival of humans than asteroids, earthquakes, nuclear war and global warming.

What could be worse than 1.5 degrees of warming?

[After] … a major eruption, the team said, millions of people would die and earth’s atmosphere would be poisoned with ash and other toxins “beyond the imagination of anything man’s activity and global warming could do over 1,000 years.

We are talking about an “extinction-level event”:

Experts at the European Science Foundation said volcanoes – especially super-volcanoes like the one at Yellowstone National Park, Wyoming, which has a caldera measuring 34 by 45 miles (55 by 72 km) – pose more threat to Earth and the survival of humans than asteroids, earthquakes, nuclear war and global warming.

But the UN and Obama will save us right?

There are few real contingency plans in place to deal with the ticking time bomb, which they conclude is likely to go off within the next 80 years.

40,000 people met in Paris last month to solve the greatest threat to Life On Earth.

The chance of such as eruption happening at one of the major volcanoes within 80 years is put at five to ten per cent by the experts.

Looks like there’s a 90% consensus that we don’t have to do anything?

The report makes for interesting reading (perfect for disaster-nerds, and catastrophe-spotters). This is not just about supervolcanoes, but asteroids, Spanish flu, and Ebola too.

X-events differ in terms of the disasters they
cause. Hempsell (2004a) introduced three categories:

  • Extinction Level Events are so devastating that
    more than a quarter of all life on Earth is killed
    and major species extinction takes place.
  • Global Catastrophes are events in which more
    than a quarter of the world’s human population
    dies and that place civilisation at serious risk.
  • • Global Disasters are global scale events in which
    a few percent of the population dies.

European Science Foundation’s report “Extreme Geo-hazards: Reducing the Disaster Risk and Increasing Resilience.”

Download the report

h/t Climate Depot

 

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Rating: 8.9/10 (84 votes cast)
EU scientists say Volcanoes, Asteroids are unimaginably worse than climate change, 8.9 out of 10 based on 84 ratings

146 comments to EU scientists say Volcanoes, Asteroids are unimaginably worse than climate change

  • #
    Radical Rodent

    Can’t see many running with this one – after all, there is nothing that can be “done” to ameliorate the danger… unless someone comes up the notion that it is only by de-industrialising the west and stopping fossil-fuel extraction that it could be prevented. Does anyone think that there could be that many gullible people to make any effort along those lines worth it?

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    • #
      michael hart

      I could see the neo-Malthusians arguing that we need to have less people, so that less people would die in the event of a disaster. I really think some of them would fall for that. After all, some of them argue that we should leave fossil fuels in the ground because if we don’t… then we won’t have any left to use. A kind of ‘not-have-your-cake-and-not-eat-it’.

      Honestly, some people really do make those kind of arguments.

      320

    • #
      Harry Passfield

      Spot on RR:

      unless someone comes up the notion that it is only by de-industrialising the west and stopping fossil-fuel extraction that it could be prevented

      So I guess that Stern will come up with a Yellowstone Tax – that’ll do it, for sure.

      150

    • #
      James Murphy

      It’s not a matter of actually being able to do something, it’s about using guilt and fear to extract money from people. It’s much harder to make people (with money) feel guilty enough to willingly part with their money by mentioning super-volcanoes and asteroid impacts than it is to mention fossil fuel usage.

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    • #
      Bulldust

      Don’t worry Mr Rodent… I have a plan. We will get Elon Mush to design and build a massive space craft, and we shall dub it the “B Ark.” On it we will place all the hairdressers, tired TV producers, insurance salesmen, personnel officers, security guards, public relations executives, management consultants and so on. when filled it will be launched to the nearest system with the proper class of planet capable of supporting human life. Problems solved /nod

      20

      • #
        Bulldust

        Oh, and telephone sanitisers.

        20

      • #

        …..and we shall dub it the “B Ark.”

        One hairdresser turns to another and says, “don’t you wonder why they’re launching this B Ark First. They haven’t even started to build the A Ark.”

        Second hairdresser thinks for a minute and then replies, “don’t be silly. They need us to have things ready for when they arrive!!!!”

        Tony.

        30

  • #
    Alle

    The best thing about disaster predictions is it’s almost always one you hadn’t thought of that gets you.

    110

    • #
      climateskeptic

      The chance of such as eruption happening at one of the major volcanoes within 80 years is put at five to ten per cent by the experts.

      Really? This is laughable nonsense

      10

  • #
    Sceptical Sam

    Can’t see many running with this one

    Hmmmm. Not sure about that, Radical.

    What about a UN levied Volcanoe Survival Charge (VSC)that is paid by all OECD economies and distributed to the developing and undeveloped world to build survival shelters for their populations? The OECD economies are rich enough to look after themselves, so they would not be eligible for assistance.

    The UN could set up an Intergovernmental Panel on Volcanoe Risk (UN-IPVR) to undertake research into volcanoe abatement and to administer the funds raised through the levy via a Green Volcanoe Fund.

    Perhaps Julia Gillard, the ex Australian Prime Minister, could be the Chair of the IPVC – after all she was a bit of a volcanoe herself in her day. You never knew when she would go off. And there’s no moral challenge to worry about either. I’m sure she’d find many willing advisers from her Fabian days to help such a scam along. What’s Mr Pachauri up to these days?

    Just a thought.

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    • #
      Just-A-Guy

      Sceptical Sam,

      You wrote:

      The UN could set up an Intergovernmental Panel on Volcanoe Risk (UN-IPVR) to undertake research into volcanoe abatement and to administer the funds raised through the levy via a Green Volcanoe Fund.

      It seems that there’s already such a group.

      From the PDF in Jo’s O/P:

      The Group on Earth Observations (GEO) is an intergovernmental organisation developing and implementing the Global Earth Observation System of Systems (GEOSS). GEO’s vision is a future wherein decisions and actions, for the benefit of humankind, are informed by coordinated, comprehensive and sustained Earth observation and information. GEO has currently 97 Member Countries and is supported by 80 Participating Organisations.

      http://www.earthobservations.org

      It wouldn’t surprise me in the least is this report is just the first salvo in a new campaign to appropriate more of our tax-dollars. It worked so well the last time around with the CAGW ™ scare, (to the tune of what, about a bilion USD per day at last accounting?!), that why not throw another scare into those unsuspecting humans.

      Here’s a headline:

      The Greatest Threat to Humanity Evahh Could Come within 80 Years, Scientists Say.

      The capacity for human avarice when backed up by an official sounding group of technocrats and reinforced by governmental authority will never cease to amaze me. After all, the lines at the feeding trough have gotten pretty long as of late. It’s time to build a new one to relieve the overcrowding.

      Abe

      260

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        You know it seems to me that the internet is fast becoming an echo chamber for propagating terminal stupidity…..

        Once the joe six packs got smart phones, the internet fast became a repository for kardashian nonsense and climate change….

        10

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Gillard would be a better solution to such X-events, that woman’s voice has closed many a fissure that that was unfortunate enough to endure the ‘Red note’

      Maybe recruiting volcano appeasing sacrifices voluntarily by promising them say 72 virgins in the afterlife would kill two birds with Darwinism while serving up delicious irony to the diabolical planners?

      111

    • #
      Dennis

      She was a very calculating and cunning volcano, her most infamous eruption was in “coward’s castle”, Parliament House, where she accused the Opposition Leader of being a misogynist in a speech that was delivered with faux emotion and insincerity.

      The material that she delivered was used earlier in the UK against the Opposition Leader David Cameron who is now Prime Minister. The misogynist allegation was engineered by UK Labour Spin Doctor John McTiernan who was brought to Australia on a 457 Visa and worked for PM Gillard in her millions of dollars a year taxpayer funded media unit. It is amusing to know the background with young and not so young black rim spectacle wearing women’s rights campaigners joining the cheer squad that blindly accepted the Gillard spin.

      171

  • #
    Matty

    Who was it who said:-
    “Mans effect on the planet is like two fleas on a dog arguing over who gets to steer.”

    430

  • #

    Super volcanoes can only become a serious threat if there is some way of extracting taxpayer money with which to fill the troughs.

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    • #
      toorightmate

      If we can stop the climate from changing, then stopping volcanos from erupting should be a piece of cake.

      200

      • #
        Rainer Bensch

        Of course! The people there just have to suck out all oil and gas and move it elsewhere to not fire up the volcano. /s

        40

  • #
    Graeme No.3

    This has been in place since A.D.79 when the inhabitants of Pompeii told each other “It’s worse than we thought”.

    80

    • #
      Yonniestone

      But they did have the IPVC (Internal Pompeii of Vesuvius Change) that thought they were on to a good thing prior to A.D.79.

      60

      • #

        Well they’d made all the sacrifices!

        30

        • #
          Manfred

          …indeed but not quite ‘all’.
          There were a few remaining animals who harboured the truth in their entrails, and who had avoided resection, probably because their food value.

          Nevetheless, the exalted Haruspices of Pompeii probably did ‘better’ than their IPCC counterparts do today.

          30

  • #
    John F. Hultquist

    In general, the notion of a massive caldera blow some where is sound. The report, sort of, implies that Yellowstone will go off sooner rather than latter. Don’t bet on it. For more information here is a FAQ site from the Park.

    For another one, see this: Long Valley Caldera and Mono-Inyo Craters

    I look for the Cascadia Subduction Zone to slip first and cause extensive damage to Portland, OR, Seattle, WA, and Vancouver, B.C. The up & down motion and minutes later wave will happen so fast nothing much can be avoided. The wave will reach Japan a day later. Search for The Orphan Tsunami of 1700.

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    • #
      Dennis

      From memory about six hundred years ago a massive wave was created when a rock from space entered Earth’s atmosphere and fell into Bass Strait, the wave travelled up the East Coast of Australia causing substantial damage to coastal areas. The resulting wave inside Sydney Harbour slopped back and forth for days and in height was close to the present Sydney Harbour Bridge roadway.

      52

      • #
        Dennis

        DR TED BRYANT, A tsunami expert who recently retired from the University of Wollongong, has gathered evidence that monumental tsunamis have pummelled the east coast throughout history – and could do so again. He believes that, based on studies of sediment layers and rock erosion, six big tsunamis caused by meteorite strikes or marine landslides have hit Sydney during the past 10,000 years. The most recent probably occurred in 1491, Ted says, and produced a wave that washed over the harbour’s headlands, 60 m above sea level. That tsunami didn’t travel far inshore, but others did.

        Ted argues that a tsunami that hit the Shoalhaven delta near Nowra, between 5000 and 4000 years ago, ran 10 km inland, while deposits near the Blue Mountains hint that another tsunami ran over cliffs more than 60 m high, and then rushed inland. A similar event today would have the potential for widespread destruction. And we wouldn’t necessarily pick up an incoming comet or meteor, whose impact into the sea could trigger a tsunami. “An object a few hundred metres wide, more than likely, would just come in with no warning,” says Ted.

        81

        • #
          el gordo

          We seem to be inadvertently working on the same story, the wave was probably 60 metres high when it hit Sydney.

          Here is what the people further south experienced, Catalyst (ABC) 2002.

          ——

          Associate Professor Ted Bryant: We know that if the water moves fast enough it has air bubbles in it and they’re very unstable and they instantly collapse at 30,000 atmospheres pressure and when they collapse they can just chew through solid bedrock. But the flows moving so you get these snake like features that have been carved into the bedrock as well.

          Narration: And the tremendous force of the flow even carved a new bay in the headland.

          Associate Professor Ted Bryant: It’s gone in a counter-clockwise direction and gouged out this circular embayment here.

          Graham Phillips: So you’re telling me the vortex could carve through all that depth of rock there.

          Associate Professor Ted Bryant: We believe we’re looking at 20 metres depth of erosion – instantaneous – and that was carved out in less than a minute.

          60

          • #
            Dennis

            I am not sure if that Tsunami was the same one that caused the Bay in Cairns to become covered in mud when the escarpment to the West collapsed from the force of the waves?

            30

        • #
          ROM

          One of the current theories for the Australian East coast Tsunamis for which there is quite a lot of evidence, is the regular occurrence of major New Zealand earthquakes along their South Island Alps plus apparently some fairlt major earthquakes off shore of the west coast of the North Island.

          The big Earthquakes on the strike slip fault zone with its 37 mm / year slip rate along their Alpine system near the South Islands western shores apparently reach a magnitude> 8.

          The scale used is logarithmic so going from a “8″ to a “9″ magnitude earthquake implies a ten fold increase in the energy released.

          The great Sumatran / Indian Ocean Earthquake of Boxing Day, 26 Dec 2004 reached magnitude 9.1 to 9.3.

          In both the North Island and the south island these great faults 600 kms long on land in the south Island, extend into the ocean.

          The paper I have located deals with the fault failure understandably as it affects New Zealand. But as land slips on the western face of their alps could have been immense in various times past, there is a very high likelihood that Australia’s South East [ Queensland coasts are protected by the Barrier Reef from the full impact of a major tsunami. ] would recieve the full impact of a massive tsunami resulting from both sea floor changes and / or major land slips resulting from a catastrophic earthquake as the plates on which NZ’s geology is built on readjust to account for the slip and subduction between the plates.

          One localised Tsunami from a major NZ quake has been measured as reaching 524 metres above normal water level, the highest Tsunami impact measured anywhere as it raced up the slopes of the hills surrounding a bay.

          The major NZ Alpine fault in the South Island apparently breaks quite regularly at about 300 year intervals

          The last time it broke was in AD 1717 so there is about an 85% chance it will break again sometime in this 21st century.

          Which implies that my thinking that NZ is probably one of the safest spots that can be found in the world today and about as far away as one can get from all the global strife of today might just have a few drawbacks that could make one’s NZ day or month or year somewhat uncomfortable and perhaps wishing you were somewhere else instead.

          Its not for nothing that NZ is known as the “Shaky Isles!”

          And if you have that lovely little house right on the foreshore of our SE Australian coast and you had to fight the local Council to allow you to build there, well maybe grab your money and head for the hills a few hundred metres higher up where you might even get to watch a pretty big tsunami heading your way sometime in the next few decades.

          Potential geomorphic consequences of a future great [ Mw =8.0+) Alpine Fault earthquake,South Island,New Zealand

          50

          • #
            Graeme No.3

            ROM:

            Are those figures Richter scale?
            In that case the jump by 1 unit represents about a 30 times increase in magnitude.

            I would note for those who think that big earthquakes are getting more frequent (due to global warming of course?) that approx. one earthquake of 8.0 & about occurs every year somewhere in the world. There is limited proof that a large quake on one side of a tectonic plate causes a big one somewhere else on the edge of said plate, but most probably sets off a series of smaller adjusting ones.

            20

            • #
              ROM

              Graeme No3 @ #7.1.1.2.1

              You got me running around a bit on that one and my magnitude is wrong in any case and you are probably correct.

              The scale for Earthquake energy released in the paper I refer to is not the “Richter scale” but the “Moment Magnitude scale” which was developed in 1970s as a better and more accurate scale of the relative amount of energy released by an earthquake.

              The” Intensity scale” and there are a number measures the amount of shock and shaking during the quake.
              It is quite arbitary and is measured against other earthquake shaking and shock data.

              The American’s Modified Mercalli Intensity scale

              The NZ paper above refers to the probability that the next major earthquake in their 600 km long, 200 km plus under the greatest stress, Alpine fault system will probably be a fairly shallow quake at 8 to 10 kms deep so the shaking could be intense to say the least with estimates in the paper of the shaking duration being from 70 seconds to 140 seconds duration due to the length of the current very high and increasing stress points and depending on where the fault ruptures and how fast [ kms per second ] the fault ruptures at.

              70 seconds to have the s**t shaken out of everything in sight is seriously bad enough to this comfortable old Aussie flat lander, but a 140′ seconds of non stop high intensity shaking as the very earth below one splits, shifts, shears, goes furiously up and down, liquifies and does all sorts of other weird things, Sheeet!

              10

              • #
                Graeme No.3

                ROM:

                The Mercalli scale is the one in use, indeed seismologists have to calculate the Richter scale from it for the press release.

                As for the effect of the “big one” in NZ can they give a date? I was thinking of touring NZ this year and like you, don’t fancy the ground trembling beneath me. Not the only one and an idle thought suggests that the eNZeders have utilised this for their own uses. I refer of course to the haka with all those huge players stomping on the ground in order to upset their opponents, while being used to it themselves. Perhaps Rereke could comment?

                00

              • #
                ROM

                Date of the next big NZ shakeup on geological time scales is quite closely defined.

                If you can make your visit to NZ sometime during the 21st century you have an 87% chance of a getting the thrill of a lifetime.

                Take a spare pair of undies as you might need them!

                I think those huge NZ players do a lot of their Hakas on the eastern playing fields of the South Island which probably accounts for the fact that the east coast of the South Island is sinking and sliding off down toward Antarctica while the west coast and a lot of the North Island is rising leading a to possible and eventual overturning of the whole NZ edifice unless their government “does something” about those Hakas.

                10

              • #
                sophocles

                NZ’s North Island is wholly on the Ausctralian plate side of the fault. So is the North Western corner of the South Island. The rest of the South Island from Marlborough down is subducting under the Australian plate.

                The fault line runs North east up the Wairarapa Coast (north island east coast) as the Hikurangi Trench. until it’s past East Cape and further out to sea where it splits into the Kermadec and Tongan trenches.

                I can see a researcg paoer Aggregated Effects of Rugby Hakas Across Eastern South Island Football Fields on South Island Tectonics. :-) . It’s possobly why rugby is so popular over here with its odd-shaped ball. Soccer balls would run downhill too easily … :-)

                10

              • #
                Graeme No.3

                But sophocles:

                Would you get funding?

                My original comment comes from a Doctor friend who spent time in the hospital at Dunedin. He examined a huge mid 20′s sheep farming patient who complained that his shoulder had been hurting for a while. The doctor (who was well above average height) pantomined getting the patient to sit on a stool while he climbed up onto a chair and checked shoulder and confirmed that the collar bone was broken. When he asked whether the farmer had been in an accident recently there was a pause while he thought it over, followed by an admission that he had fallen down a 30 foot cliff 7 or 10 days ago and a doubtful query as to whether that might be the cause.
                My friend’s comment was “we are never going to beat them at rugby unless we wipe out the sheep”.

                00

  • #
    Craig

    The dopey climate scare mongers won’t care, there is no money in hyping up a volcano.

    81

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Craig:

      Has it occurred to you that their interest is in finding a safe hole for when the AGW scam ends, as it surely must in the next few years?
      When the mob comes to string AGW scientists from the nearest lamp post would you want to be known as a leading proponent of AGW or someone studying the effects of earthquakes or volcanoes?

      50

  • #

    40,000 people met in Paris last month to discuss solving the ‘Greatest Threat to Life On Earth’, which they firmly believe is life-giving CO2 whose effects so far have been totally benign. Meanwhile on the other side of the Atlantic looms a far greater problem which has a track record of being a serial pest in regard to extincton.
    These were not trained betting people at Paris, they are more like Parisites. Perhaps they will add on a Volcano Trading Scheme or Tax.

    100

    • #
      Iconoclast

      NT this has all the hallmarks of a Plan B for when the Great Global Warming Swindle goes kaput.

      90

      • #
        James Murphy

        I am not so sure.

        Research and monitoring of Yellowstone national park already takes place, and there is only so much money that could be thrown at it before people start asking awkward questions. I would argue that it’s inherently more difficult to make long term (profitable/career-making) links with diverse research fields centred on this topic, unlike “climate science” which can be invoked by just about any field there is. The same goes for other potential super-volcano locations.

        Likewise, dealing with the consequences of a super-volcano eruption – perhaps open to more abuse, but still likely to be less ‘successful’ than the climate change grab-for-cash. How profitable were fall-out shelter manufacturers during the height of the cold war? (I have no idea)

        As for asteroids and other near-earth objects, again, a fairly limited range of research opportunities compared to “climate science”.

        I’ am sure there will be another scare campaign coming soon, but I don’t think these 2 things will make the grade this time around.

        50

        • #
          Lucky

          ‘ only so much money that could be thrown at it’
          If it is other people’s money, no problem.

          40

        • #
          jorgekafkazar

          As for asteroids and other near-earth objects, again, a fairly limited range of research opportunities compared to “climate science”.

          The underlying assumption there is that “research opportunities” must involve actual research, as opposed to activities designed purely to spend money and keep the trougherati busy: go to conferences, give speeches to each other, write weasel-worded papers on the number of dancing pinheads in academia, issue vacuous but panicky press releases, and generally indulge in advanced circle-jerkery in the tradition of climate science. On, as Lucky reminds us, other people’s money, and with, as we’re all aware, the full cooperation of the Monumentally Stupid Media. Parkinson’s Law pertains.

          20

  • #
    PeterS

    There’s a certain irony in all this. The likes of the Greens and other movements who say we should do something about climate change are like some old peoples who performed human sacrifices to put a stop to volcanoes. They are all pathetically stupid.

    120

    • #
      Dariusz

      The greens and the left in the end think that humans are not worthy of stewards of this good earth. Just like any cult it is better to be dead than continuing the destruction of environment by humanity. I am better off dead and non existent than suffer the guilt of immoral existence.

      Nihilism is at the core of the left thinking. This led to the rise of communism and nazism that by the way was not right wing like most people think. The socialist word in the NAZI acronym was not just a window dressing.
      But, but they say Adolf attacked Soviet Russia and hence Nazis must be the opposite. Well the communist Vietnamese fought against communist China and communist Cambodia, and no one thought they were on the right of political spectrum.
      I am often identified by others as a right wing person. When I compare my love of individuality, freedom and free market, I see absolutely nothing in common with these hideous ideologies including the green monster where an individual human being is worthless. This is even worse then the commies or Nazis as at least they valued some hard work however slavery or science however warped.

      151

  • #
    el gordo

    ‘Mahuika crater is a submarine feature that is hypothesized to be an extraterrestrial impact crater. It is about 20 ± 2 km (12.4 ± 1.2 mi) wide and over 153 meters (502 ft) deep and lies on the New Zealand continental shelf. The Mahuika crater is named after the Māori god of fire. However, there is debate about its origins.

    ‘The crater was reported and named by Dallas Abbott and her colleagues from the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory at Columbia University. Based on elemental anomalies, fossils, and minerals, which are interpreted to be derived from the impact, found in an ice core from the Siple Dome in Antarctica, it is argued that the impact which created the Mahuika crater occurred around 1443 AD, but other sources have placed the date as 13 February 1491 AD.’

    wiki

    Some evidence suggests that the tsunami it caused was observed by aborigines and entered into their mythology.[4][5]

    40

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘… circumstantial evidence exists for a major environmental event that disturbed coastal Aboriginal culture within this period. For example, a disturbed midden has been found 30 m above sea level within Sydney Harbour (Attenbrow 1992). This is beyond the run-up of modern storm waves in the harbour. The date of this deposit is 1448 AD.

      ‘There is also clear evidence that Aborigines switched from collecting large molluscs to fishing about 500–700 years ago (Sullivan 1987). We attribute this response to the fact that any large tsunami would have wiped out shellfish populations along the rocky coast. Aborigines thus switched to fishing to survive.’

      Bryant et al

      30

    • #
      Dariusz

      I had the privilege to demonstrate that the submarine feature off Western Australia coast called Mount Ashmore is in fact an asteroid impact structure that is the size of Perth or at least 100kms across with the central rebound area of at least one kilometre . This happened some 40 mln years ago. This feature if not buried would have been visible from the Moon.
      I did that with professor Glickson at around the same time when JO had an unending conversation with him. Back then I was unaware of this conversation. Having said that I must admit that the cooperation with professor Glickson was fully professional.

      40

  • #

    So is it official then? Have we moved on to the next global scare campaign?

    I was kind of hoping for something more exciting than super volcanoes, like aliens or run away nano bots, but I guess a change is as good as a holiday.

    80

    • #
      Yonniestone

      I was going to say mindless zombies walking the earth but recent voting patterns have proven this to be currently occurring….

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    • #
      PeterS

      The National Geographic channel has a series explaining how the US government has plans in the event of a real alien invasion. Astrophysicists, weapon designers, military strategists, biologists and anthropologists reveal how they’re gearing up to fight back. It really belongs on the Sci Fi channel. It’s just a load of crap. I’m really amazed as to what passes as science these days, both on that channel and the so called Science channel. In many ways it’s all worse than the old peoples conducting human sacrifices. At least their excuse back then was ignorance as well as stupidity. Today it’s just stupidity.

      50

      • #
        jorgekafkazar

        At least their excuse back then was ignorance as well as stupidity. Today it’s just stupidity.

        Since as much as half of present day science involves irreproducible results and unreplicable studies, much of what we think we know is untrue. There is about as much ignorance today there was twenty years ago.

        10

        • #
          PeterS

          I understand what you are saying. I was trying to say unsuccessfully that given our much larger store of knowledge and better understanding about reality we ought to be less ignorant not more. In other words, we really don’t have as good an excuse as the ancient peoples to be ignorant. So I agree with you we tend to be more ignorant – but there is no excuse for being so anymore. That’s makes us more stupid as well.

          00

  • #
    ralph ellis

    .
    Well, if the Younger Dryas cooling was caused by an extraterrestrial impact, then the threat of an impact might be much higher than assumed. The Younger Dryas was just 12.9 kyr ago. Almost recorded history.

    This article suggests that a meteor hit the Laurentide ice sheet, in the middle of the Great Lakes, and splattered secondary ice projectiles all over North America. Thos sub-orbital ice bombs:

    a. Caused the hundreds of thousands of impact craters known as Carolina Bays.
    b. Caused the N America megafauna extinctions.
    c. Caused the extinction of Clovis Man.
    d. Caused the destruction of most of N America.
    e. Caused the Younger Dryas cooling.

    It has been claimed that the Carolina Bays cannot be impact craters, because they do not exhibit crater morphology and show no extraterrestrial material. However, these were not meteroite imacts. These were large, soft, slow-speed slushballs travelling at about 300 m/sec. So they did not explode on impact, they splashed. And then they melted and left no extraterrestrial material.

    The Carolina Bays and the Destruction of North America.

    https://www.academia.edu/20051868/The_Carolina_Bays_and_the_destruction_of_North_America

    R

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  • #
    RoHa

    Global Warming causes volcanoes and asteroids.

    60

  • #
    Robert O

    People seem to forget the significance of volcanic activity on the earth’s climate. The Mt. St. Helen’s eruption, although small by super volcano standards, had a measurable effect on the climate. Further back in time there was Krakatoa in 1883, and Mt. Tambora in 1815 in the Sunda straits and Sumatra respectively, both having enormous effects on the climate.

    And yet our beloved leaders are worrying about carbon dioxide levels which have little, if any, measurable effect at all. That is politics I am afraid.

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      The Backslider

      Warmists will argue that rising temperatures are causing ice to recede, thus resulting in a rebound of the Earth’s crust, causing fault lines to become more active.

      Yes, a cauldron blow will be a direct result of our evil CO2.

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        Dennis

        If the UN Socialists get their way CO2 will be the basis for One World Government;

        At a news conference last week in Brussels, Christiana Figueres, executive secretary of U.N.’s Framework Convention on Climate Change, admitted that the goal of environmental activists is not to save the world from ecological calamity but to destroy capitalism.

        October 2015

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    Yep. In 2010 an Icelandic pea-shooter gave us just a taste of the effects of a Laki-scale eruption on Europe. Imagine 2010 multiplied many times over. Aviation, health, agriculture, pollution…and there’s nothing remote or theoretical or speculative about it. Laki occurred just over 230 years ago, and it was a particularly long and dirty series. A repeat would not end civilisation, but it would hurt. We have to be careful of bringing out the Chicken Littles again, but some preparation is possible, some help can be had.

    Would you believe Decade Volcanoes are underfunded? Can you guess where the money and resources for such essential research have gone?

    Here’s an idea: Climate botherers can be given the job of wiping down solar panels after a big blow. More elbow grease there, Al and Tim!

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    pat

    selective,political CAGW taxation

    9 Jan: The Hill: Bradford Richardson: Trump: Obama a hypocrite on climate change
    Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump on Saturday accused President Obama of hypocrisy, saying he spews pollutants from Air Force One in order to deliver speeches on the threat of climate change.
    “Watch Obama talking about the carbon footprint, and then he flies over Hawaii in an old 747 with the old engines spewing the hell out of it,” Trump said at a rally in Iowa…
    The Republican primary front-runner also called the carbon tax a “scam.”
    “I was just given a bill. I flew my plane into a certain location,” he said. “They sent me a bill for $2,200 — a carbon tax. I said, ‘What a scam. What kind of a scam is this?’ And my plane is a good plane, and it’s efficient.”
    Trump also polled the audience to see how many believed in climate change, to which one person responded, “Al Gore.”…
    http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/gop-primaries/265340-trump-obama-a-hypocrite-on-climate-change

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    pat

    8 Jan: UN: Australian national takes the helm as new UN disaster risk reduction chief
    Following his appointment by UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, Robert Glasser, an experienced leader and thinker on development issues, took up his new role this week as head of the UN Office for Disaster Risk Reduction (UNISDR)…
    “Reducing disaster risk is core to the achievement of the post-2015 development agenda including the Sustainable Development Goals and the Paris Agreement on climate change,” he continued.
    “We live in a world where 90 per cent of disasters are now climate-related, so there needs to be significant integration of disaster risk reduction and climate change adaptation efforts to ensure that climate change is not seen as a risk driver in isolation from other risk factors such as poverty, rapid urbanisation, non-compliance with building codes, environmental degradation and population expansion in exposed areas such as flood plains and coastal areas.” …
    http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=52965

    Wikipedia: Robert Glasser
    Prior to joining the United Nations, Glasser had from 2008 served as Secretary General of CARE (relief agency), one of the world’s largest non-governmental humanitarian organizations, active in over 80 countries. From 2003 to 2007, he was the Chief Executive of CARE Australia, overseeing aid and humanitarian relief programmes in Cambodia, Viet Nam, Papua New Guinea and the Middle East. Before joining CARE, he was Assistant Director General at the Australian Agency for International Development (AusAID).
    Glasser has also been a member of the board of the Global Call for Climate Action, and was the inaugural Board Chairman of the CHS International Alliance, a new organization resulting from the June 2015 merger of People In Aid and Humanitarian Accountability Partnership International. He has also served as a fellow of the Geneva Centre for Security Policy.
    Born in 1959, Glasser holds a PhD in International relations (Strategic studies) from the Australian National University…
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Glasser

    Nov 2015: HuffPo: Robert Glasser: Why Isn’t the Public More Worried About Climate Change?
    Unlike in the case of the meteor, we have growing, tangible evidence of the crisis on an almost daily basis in the form of record-breaking heat waves, floods, droughts and wildfires. The public has a short memory when it comes to historical changes in the climate, so an additional key task of campaigners and scientists over the months ahead will be to ensure the public understands that these extreme weather events are not normal, but are the early warning of the disaster before us…

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    • #

      A “PhD in International relations (Strategic studies)”, What sort of non degree nonsense is that? Reminds me of an advanced degree in cake icing or like a past premier of this state, a doctorate in why babies cry. The only thing these sort of Weetie packet degrees have in common is that they are totally useless for creating wealth and therefore unemployable by private industry. Ergo they are employed by stupid governments and paid for by the tax payer for life.

      Just think pat, if common sense were to be reinstated, we could get rid of all that snot and quite possibly lawyers, whose only function is to decipher convoluted BS created by other useless bloody lawyers.

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        Brad

        Turbine,
        My favorite is a re-allocation of attorneys, world-wide based on population. The USA has ~95%, so we move them out to get a uniform density, world-wide. And then new attorneys can only start to practice after an existing attorney has died.

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        • #
          Graeme No.3

          There is another suggestion put forward by W. Shakespeare ” First let us ….

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        • #

          Brad, I agree with you, however, I doubt that the Chinese would allow the surplus from the West into their country where, I think, the largest imbalance lies.
          In addition, this situation came about because of the petty law suits that were allowed to be heard, and the moronic judges and magistrates who handed down finding that encouraged the litigation. The USA is trying to stop the stupidity, but in Oz, we are ten years behind, and so have a while yet to put up with this.
          Finally, I would like to say that banning lawyers from holding any form of public office, especially political, would make my day.

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    pat

    9 Jan: NYT: Paul D. Thacker: Scientists, Give Up Your Emails
    IN recent months, the Obama administration has been locked in a battle with Representative Lamar Smith of Texas, the Republican chairman of the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology, who disputes the scientific consensus on climate change…
    NOAA has denied this request, and some within the scientific community have called Mr. Smith’s demands a witch hunt. But allowing agencies to keep secret the communications of scientists who work for the government sets a dangerous precedent. Some of what we know about abusive practices in science — whether it concerns tobacco, pharmaceuticals, chemicals or even climate change — has come from reading scientists’ emails…
    And if you think of all scientists at universities as pure at heart, think again.
    As federal funding has fallen, some university scientists have allied themselves with corporate interests…
    Last August, a colleague and I wrote an article on the importance of transparency in science for one of the blogs of the science journal publisher PLOS. The argument was fairly simple: When research is paid for by the public, the public has a right to demand transparency and to have access to documents related to the research. This might strike most people as reasonable…
    Our article promptly came under attack by several scientists and by the Union of Concerned Scientists. PLOS then removed our article from its site, though left the comments about it online. Never mind that the article had been peer-reviewed and promoted on social media by PLOS. In removing the article, PLOS explained that it “was not consistent with at least the spirit and intent of our community guidelines.”
    About two weeks later, this newspaper, in a Page 1 article, underscored the importance of access to scientists’ emails…
    (A version of this op-ed appears in print on January 10, 2016, on page SR4 of the New York edition with the headline: Scientists, Give Up Your Emails)
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/10/opinion/sunday/scientists-give-up-your-emails.html?_r=0

    Wikipedia: Paul D. Thacker
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_D._Thacker

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    • #
      Mark Fraser

      The Union of Concerned Scientists, of course, has nothing to do with science. It is a political action body to which anyone, including a dog, may belong by simply paying a fee. This provides a clue as to who runs what and for what purpose(s). Time for the revolution!

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    TdeF

    “The chance of such as eruption happening at one of the major volcanoes within 80 years is put at five to ten per cent by the experts.”

    So it is certain within 1,000 to 2,000 years? Rubbish or it would have happened. Recorded history back to the paleolithic has no such event. This is reminiscent of the ‘experts’ who predict mass destruction from a change in temperature by 1C, utterly ignorigin the Roman warming or the Renaissance warming. Who knows how many warming periods there were? The BOM would argue that we are experiencing this hottest planet in the history of the world. More rubbish expertise.

    Yes, Krakatoa and especially Santorini were big events and the earthquake which produced the biblical flooding of the fresh water Black Sea, but nothing much. Maybe the odd asteroid strike in the US or Russia or a volcano in Yucatan or Antarctica, but we did not have social media then.

    It makes you wonder how ‘experts’ can predict anything. How can you be an expert in something which has not happened for millions of years?
    Worse, who appoints these experts? Why isn’t there a need to match predictions with history? This is the same with Tim Flannery telling us the rains which fall will never fill the dams or that Global Warming causes all of Australia’s bushfires. If we need saving, it is from catastrophe experts. Like all the expert economists who say an ETS is good for you, but none predicted the GFC? Self appointed experts are the catastrophe.

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      Dariusz

      Experts my arse. They can,t predict Vesuvius now and other volcanoes. Not much changed with Santorini or Pompey except a few reading stations.

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      • #
        TdeF

        Whenever someone wants to sex up a scare, they have to find a reputable authority. As was the case with NOAA and ocean acidification. If they cannot find one, ‘experts say’ has to do. An expert, if you find one, has to avoid outright denial of the scare. You also need to make the scare immediate and 10% over 80 years is very likely within a human lifespan. Without these two things it does not go to press.

        This is simply an example of how alarmists work to create credible, immediate threats. To get money, just add the ‘precautionary principle’.

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        • #
          TdeF

          I think like all threats, to make a threat credible, you have to have immediacy. You would not get on a plane with a 10% chance of crashing. Even over a lifetime.

          However it also raises a sensible principle, avoided in the Climate Change/Global Warming idea, risk assessment. Everything carries a risk. So has it happened before? How long ago? Where? What is the observed risk, not the calculated one? This applies to everything from bungee jumping to car racing to flying to taking medication or eating in a new restaurant.

          What is so clear about global warming is that historically it was always a good thing, fuelling the Roman civilization with better crop yields, happier people and easier travel. So too the medieval warming which created the Renaissance. The dark, black terrible times were usually cold and miserable. However no one wants to talk about history, to discuss whether warming or CO2 rise is a good thing.

          Then you get the idea that only First World countries (prosperous post WW2 democracies from the cold war) should have to pay, that they have an ‘historic’ obligation, an idea which came out of China at the Paris love in, COP FLOP 21. So it has nothing to do with reality and everything to do with punishing democracies. That democracies actually agree to this is due solely to the electoral swinging vote of the very left Chicken Little party, the Greens. Yes, the sky is falling. Nobel Peace Prize winner Al Gore said so. Democracies are the problem, according to Christiana Figueres. We need to be punished and stripped of our rights. We would be controlled by the unelected communists of the UN and the bankers. Why does anyone listen to this? Malcolm?

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            TdeF

            10% is very high. Even Russian Roulette is only 1/6 or 16%.

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          • #
            TdeF

            Money. Follow the link. Next “A telescope that’ll save the earth? It’s going to cost $500m”
            There’s always a sting to a scare.

            So if you want a new $500m telescope, you have to create a credible disaster scenario and argue the precautionary principle and scare the cattle. Why spend only $500Million. Why not a string of series of super Hubble telescopes further out in space looking for potential disasters. $ Trillions.

            Who would have thought thirty years ago that the world would build 220,000 useless windmills, just in case.

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  • #

    Stubbing my toes on an open door in the dark is much worse than climate change.

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      Yonniestone

      It’s nothing to laugh about for sure, people forget the disaster of Crack-A-Toe-A…………..sorry :(

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        Annie

        ‘Sorry’ Yonnie? I bet you’re not in the least bit sorry! That’s very funny. Thanks for a smile though I do hope Bernd hasn’t suffered too much from a real cracked toe. Ouch!

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    • #

      And the same country that gave us an obsession for wind turbines also invented the nemesis of bare feet. LEGO!

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        Annie

        Ooh yes! Dreadful stuff to stumble on in bare feet. Shockingly noisy as it rattles up the vacuum cleaner too.

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    pat

    9 Jan: UK Telegraph: Christopher Booker: Met Office’s ‘wettest ever’ claim fails again
    Official records show that December ranked as only the 20th wettest since 1766, despite what we’ve been told
    But as soon as the Met Office rushed to proclaim that 230mm of rain (9in) had made it “the wettest December on record” (and the “wettest calendar month”) – predictably echoed by the BBC and the Prime Minister – we knew it might be wise to examine the small print behind its claims.
    We know how eager these people are to seize on any “extreme weather event” as a sign of unprecedented “climate change”, as they did when the Met Office trumpeted on July 1 that it had been “the hottest July day evah”, solely on the basis, it turned out, of a fleeting temperature spike probably caused by an airliner passing its temperature gauge near a runway at Heathrow…
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/12091298/Met-Offices-wettest-ever-claim-fails-again.html

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    pat

    9 Jan: UKIP: UKIP calls on Energy Secretary to drop the playground technologies and get back to reality
    UKIP Energy spokesman Roger Helmer MEP responded saying, “Energy Secretary Amber Rudd is hopelessly out-of-touch with the basics of energy pricing.
    “Is it possible that she can be unaware of the vast damage being done by EU energy policy, as the EU seeks to “lead on the fight against climate change”, oblivious to the fact that no one else is following? Has she not read of the “industrial massacre” which former EU Industry Commissioner Antonio Tajani has so graphically described? Has she not noticed the steel plants closing across Britain, and across Europe — caused in large part by high energy costs? And not just steel plants, but aluminium smelters, oil refiners, chemical and fertiliser plants, glass and ceramic and cement factories?
    “She castigates the energy companies, and asserts that “the best way to deliver lower energy prices for consumers is to have better competition in the market”. No it’s not, Ms. Rudd. The best way to deliver lower energy prices for households and industry is to stop the Gadarene stampede towards expensive, intermittent and unreliable renewables, and instead switch to proven, reliable, cost-effective electricity generation.
    “As a direct result of energy policies imposed by Brussels, we are driving jobs and industry and investment out of the EU altogether, often to jurisdictions with lower environmental standards, thus arguably increasing emissions while we undermine our economy. Far from being a reason to stay in the EU, energy policy is one of the most vital arguments for Brexit…
    http://www.ukip.org/ukip_calls_on_energy_secretary_to_drop_the_playground_technologies_and_get_back_to_reality

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    pat

    very little coverage in British MSM, other than in Wales, but Mirror has this:

    8 Jan: UK Mirror: UK’s largest steelworks Port Talbot at risk with 4,500 jobs at stake
    Union leaders and local politicians are calling for bosses Tata to come up with an urgent rescue plan, warning: “It is 10 minutes to midnight”
    Closing the site would be a hammer blow for the UK’s beleaguered steel industry which has lost thousands of workers in the last three months…
    The steel industry has been struggling because of high energy costs, a downturn in the global market and the dumping by China of cheap exports.
    There are now fears Port Talbot could follow Scunthorpe, where Tata is cutting 1,200 staff, and Redcar where SSI shut the plant with the loss of 1,700 jobs…
    The Mirror’s Save Our Steel campaign is demanding action on Chinese dumping, ***help with energy costs and the Government to promote a buy-British policy…
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/uks-largest-steelworks-port-talbot-7137638

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      Annie

      We tried to do a bit for Sheffield steel at Christmas and had some cutlery sent over to Australia from England. I fear such efforts are chicken feed. I’m actually very angry and upset at what’s been done to British (and Australian) industry.

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      Radical Rodent

      Closure of such energy-hungry industries is essential to “The Plan”* as it will help defer the inevitable black-outs. Cameron et al are hoping that it will be another government in office when the proverbial hits the fan, when he and his cronies are ensconced in profitable positions nearer the “centres of power” in Europe or, they hope, the world.

      *What is this “Plan”? I have no idea, nor do I know the why, but it does seem to involve destroying the United Kingdom, and probably many other Anglo-centric cultures, too.

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    handjive

    Get ready for a Gravity tax:

    “Through a new paper Professor André Füzfa from the University of Namur claims that we can produce, detect and control gravity using existing technologies.

    Professor Füzfa has put together a proposal that holds the potential of revolutionizing physics and can even test theory of general relativity of Einstein.”
    . . .
    After declaring war on the climate, a war on gravity can’t be far away.

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    King Geo

    A large asteroid impact on the Yucatan Shelf, Mexico ~ 66 million years ago (Chicxulub Crater – 180km across & 20km deep) resulted in the mass extinction of most species on planet Earth. If an asteroid of this size strikes again then there is little us humans can do about it – let’s just hope it does not impact too close too our major population centres. Imagine if it landed in our oceans (~70% of Earths surface) – what a set of tsunamis would be created – I would be heading inland to very high ground. Now let’s compare the respective devastation resulting from

    1. a large asteroid impact [plenty of warning - that is the good news - maybe oil driller Harry Stamper (Bruce Willis) can save the day again as he did in the movie Armageddon by blowing up the asteroid].
    2. a super volcanic eruption – there is SFA we can do about that.
    3. AGW / Climate Change – there is SFA we can do about that but who cares anyway other than the delusional “Warmists”.

    I suggest we drop No. 3 off the list and be more worried about the next LIA & even worse the next Ice Age.

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      Climate Heretic

      You will have to scrap No. 1. Because the Space Shuttle program has been retired to the annals of history. So there is SFA we can do about it.

      Regards
      Climate Heretic

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    john karajas

    Mm-eh! Yellowstone National Park, Wyoming is definitely a worry but then so is Lake Taupo in the North Island of New Zealand which had a monster of an eruption around about 640AD (CE). Fortunately the place was uninhabited by humans in those days but were it to happen again goodbye New Zealand and maybe Australia as well.

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      King Geo

      Another Lake Taupo eruption ~ 1000 years on – I guess here in Perth we will be far away enough away to escape the worst of another Lake Taupo eruption event.

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    John

    I’m surprised that few see the potential here to save the earth from a super volcano and at the same time save us all from the increased temperature climate change brought about by all that CO2 we produce. The simple solution is to harness the energy from under Yellowstone, creating localised cooling of the mantle and mantle stabilisation while eliminating fossil fuel use that is increasing climatic temperatures. Problem solved, seems completely feasible to me; I don’t know what all the fuss is about. If mankind is good enough to control the earths climate he must also be capable of stopping volcanic eruptions; too many of you have very negative attitudes and it’s just not good enough!

    I like it! — Jo

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    • #
      John F. Hultquist

      In Idaho: “Boise is home to the oldest geothermal district heating system in America and the Idaho State Capital Building is the only state capital building in the U.S. that is heated with geothermal energy.
      Idaho Geothermal

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    pat

    links to Courier Mail, but articles requires subscription. besides, you have to see the pic Blair posts in his thread, which may or may not be in the original!

    10 Jan: Tim Blair Blog: THE GREAT EXAGGERATORS
    Climate alarmists exaggerate everything. They exaggerate security risks, they exaggerate threats, they exaggerate population, they exaggerate depleted water levels, media criticism, and even refrigerator sizes.
    And now we have a climate scientist accused of exaggerating his expenses:
    (LINK) “A climate scientist who did research on the Great Barrier Reef for the Federal Government is accused of ripping off taxpayers to the tune of $556,508 by claiming bogus expenses related to his research – for seven years.”…
    http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/the_great_exaggerators/

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      RB

      I searched the ABC web site to see of they reported this. Of course not.

      What I did find was this

      Scientists have spent the past few days looking at something disturbing under the sea bed off the far north Queensland coast. They’ve found the remains of a forest that drowned at the end of the last ice age, around 9,000 years ago.

      What worries them is that the trees appear to have been swamped when sea levels rose fast, as much as five metres in just 20 years. If it’s true, it means that the world’s climate changed wildly within a human lifetime in the past, and it could happen again.

      Bloody contrarian! 3mm/year is unprecedented!

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    Peter Yates

    The top post (and the linked article) is just the same type of doom-saying we saw before the infamous date of December 21, 2012, when the end-of-the-world was supposed to happen.

    Successful doom-sayers select a disaster that last happened hundreds of thousands of years ago (such as Yellowstone 640,000 years ago), and suggest that there is a possibility that it could happen in the future (eg. within the next 80 years). Sometimes they even mention a very low chance of it happening (eg. 5 to 10%).

    Notice that the article doesn’t say what the percentage is based on. It also doesn’t provide any sort of evidence, or proof of any observations that lead them to think it could happen “soon”.

    Surely this is the type of thing that we accuse climate alarmists of in the AGW debate. Their claims are largely based on the output of computer climate models, and not the usual empirical evidence that is required by the very long established scientific method. Is this a double standard for skeptic blogs? Is it unfair to insist that climate alarmists comply with a scientific standard, when we don’t seem to insist on similar standards by other types of alarmists, such as doom-sayers?

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    Peter

    The junket continues, wonder what the budget for this is, 44 scientist are going to go to antarctica to boil some krill on the stove and see if they die!

    Wonder if it includes that fool from NSW Uni who got stuck in Antarctica a couple of years ago.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/latest-news/aust-scientists-embark-on-wildlife-mission/news-story/3dc1b01fe719e9509cd631e616e5691b

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    StewGreen

    It’s a pretty weak story ..Why ?
    #1 It is a new story in the Express, but the Express is kind of a trash newspaper, these days.
    #2 The science report quoted is from April 2015 ..so it’s not topical news. Neither does it open with the assertion volcanoes are worse than man. Oh hang-on buried towards the end of the page is it does say “but puts special emphasis on the impending risk of catastrophic effects on populations and infrastructures should our growing and increasingly interconnected modern society be exposed to a very large volcanic eruption”
    Still I guess CC is more of a deep future maybe possible problem whilst volcano eruption is possible now.
    The actual paper is a PDF 7.9MB at the bottom of ESF’s own page

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    thingadonta

    The only thing the Sunday express article shows is that some scientists are not very good at science and statistics, and that some journalists are not very good at journalism.

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  • #

    I’m missing the unravelled weekend to mention

    · The resignation of Harry Neumann; a former executive of Germany’s Fiends of the Earth the “BUND” from the organization, stating that he rejected the organization’s policy of turning Germany’s landscapes and forests into energy sources with climate protection as an ultimate goal; to the detriment of nature. He could not accept any means to an end.

    · Volkswagen abandoning all of its US operations overnight in the face of bureaucratic process lawfare, egregious administrative obstruction and reneging on previous agency promises, lies, media distortions and defamatory accusations about killing people as a result of #dieselgate. See if you can work out where the facts end.

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      Annie

      ‘Fiends of the Earth’. Got it in one Bernd! Was that by accident or design?!

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      kneel63

      “dieselgate”

      Never really understood this one. A company faced with ever-tightening regulations does nothing more than meet the letter of the law, and gets in trouble for doing so, while the people who wrote the law in such a way that it CAN be “gamed” are “innocent victims” who never would have imagined that someone would arrange to pass a test rather than meet the intent of the test.

      Hmmm…

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      • #

        They regulations explicity rule out the use of a “defeat device”; aa clause added after several US car makers did exactly that to meet emissions limits; so they were in breach of the regulations.

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    Don Gaddes

    Where did the recent flooding in South Eastern Australia originate?
    Indonesia.
    What is in Indonesia?
    Erupting volcanoes.

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    Harry Twinotter

    “The chance of such as eruption happening at one of the major volcanoes within 80 years is put at five to ten per cent by the experts.”

    Really? When was the last super-volcanic eruption?

    “40,000 people met in Paris last month to solve the greatest threat to Life On Earth.”

    I do not recall anyone credible saying AGW is the “greatest threat to Life on Earth”. You are exaggerating here for rhetorical effect.

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    el gordo

    O/T

    Regional cooling has begun in Europe and I’m thinking its a rerun of 1947.

    http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/pna/nao_index.html

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  • #

    This seems to fit here

    I found this as a slogan used by an internet poster

    “The difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.”

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  • #

    Im enjoying how the “sting” seems to have pretty much gone from the AGW coverage in the MSM, even the ABC.

    I don’t think the rabid panic crowd was really ready for the very group of trough swillers they looked to for “leadership”, stitching them up in Paris with a political statement saying the problem is now officially fixed.

    Im still not sure if that was a mistake by the “Obamas” or whether it was actually part of the plan. Either way there appears to have been a definite shift in the direction of “meh” when it comes to public displays of climate alarmism.

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      el gordo

      The SMH and Guardian are still on song, but now the BBC editors are pulling in their heads because they don’t understand the science and I’m assuming Auntie is going the same way.

      Victory is close at hand and this northern hemisphere winter should prove beyond reasonable doubt that climate is changing naturally.

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      el gordo

      The Guardian is regurgitating old stories with a positive spin.

      ‘Giant melting icebergs may be a symbol of climate change but new research has revealed that the plumes of nutrient-rich waters they leave in their wake lead to millions of tonnes of carbon being trapped each year.

      ‘Researchers examined 175 satellite photos of giant icebergs in the Southern Ocean which surrounds Antarctica and discovered green plumes stretching up to 1,000km behind them. The greener colour of the plumes is due to blooms of phytoplankton, which thrive on the iron and other nutrients shed by the icebergs.’

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    Alice Thermopolis

    AND CLOSER TO HOME……

    http://quadrant.org.au/opinion/doomed-planet/2014/02/rumbles-indonesia/

    The Sunda Arc hosts some of the most capricious – and explosive – volcanoes on the planet.

    Mt Sinabung (northwest Sumatra) erupted again on 1 February 2014.

    Its location is a worry – just 40km from the Lake Toba supervolcano. The largest eruption on Earth in the past 25 million years occurred here only 70,000 years ago. Indonesia’s largest lake – 100 km long and 30 km wide – now occupies the caldera.

    It was not, as some claim, the 1815 eruption of Mt Tambora (60,000 deaths), or Krakatoa in 1883 (36,000 deaths)
    .
    Eruptions are classified using a logarithmic eight-stage Volcanic Explosivity Index. Lake Toba is ranked as a Level 8 phenomenon. Ten times bigger than “mega-colossal” (7), it was an “apocalyptic” event – ejecting 2,800 cubic-km of Dense Rock Equivalent (DRE) into the atmosphere and depositing a 15-centimetre ash layer over South Asia. This estimate may be too low, based on deep-sea cores from the South China Sea.

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    pat

    RB replied to comment #30 re Tim Blair thread “THE GREAT EXAGGERATORS” by writing:

    “I searched the ABC web site to see of they reported this. Of course not.”

    well, there is still nothing whatsoever on this fraud allegation showing up in “news” online except for the Courier Mail story linked to in Blair’s thread. no ABC, no Fairfax, no other News Ltd newspapers, no TV, etc.

    I thought surely it has made News Ltd’s Townsville Bulletin &, indeed, I found the following on “Press Reader” but cannot find it otherwise online:

    (use mouse to drag story across the page)
    9 Jan: Press Reader: Townsville Bulletin: Vanda Carson: Top reef scientist on fraud charges
    Brisbane-based AFP agent William Tooth told the District Court that Mr. Alongi was alleged to have made 172 claims for reimbursement of $607,282 with $556,508 of this alleged to be fraudulent…
    http://www.pressreader.com/australia/townsville-bulletin/20160109/281513635140706/TextView

    eventually, I also found the following:

    18 Sept: Press Reader: Townsville Bulletin: Great Barrier Rort
    Prominent climate scientist charged over $100,000 AIMS theft
    Dr. Alongi was granted bail in Townsville Magistrates Court on September 8 and ordered to surrender his passport.
    http://www.pressreader.com/australia/townsville-bulletin/20150918/281547994682461/TextView

    one more to come.

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    pat

    comment on comment being in moderation is also in moderation!

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    pat

    15 Sept: Townsville Bulletin: Samantha Healy: Climate scientist accused of employer rort
    A TOWNSVILLE climate scientist accused of ripping off his Federal Government employer for more than seven years will face court next month.
    The Townsville Bulletin can reveal that Dr Daniel Michael Alongi, 59, was arrested by the Australian Federal Police on September 6 after search warrants were executed at his home in Annandale and at his office at the Australian Institute of Marine Sciences (AIMS).
    He was charged with obtaining a financial advantage from a Commonwealth entity, namely AIMS, by deception.
    The charge carries a maximum sentence of 10 years imprisonment.
    He has also been charged with one count of dealing with the proceeds of crime worth $100,000 or more which carries a maximum term of 20 years behind bars.
    The American-born Dr Alongi has been an employee of AIMS, a Commonwealth research facility based at Cape Cleveland, since 1989…
    His LinkedIn account lists his position as the Senior Principal Research Scientist at AIMS but his name has since been removed from the online AIMS staff register…
    Dr Alongi’s arrest is expected to come as a surprise to many in the local sciences field.
    As a scientist, Dr Alongi has been published in numerous journals, nationally and internationally.
    His key research focuses have been the Great Barrier Reef, coastal mangroves, coastal ecosystems and the impact of climate change…
    http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/news/climate-scientist-accused-of-employer-rort/story-fnjfzs4b-1227532573922

    this story became public knowledge way back in September 2015. given how we are bombarded with Gt Barrier Reef CAGW stories all the time, funny how this one stayed local!
    it seems like protecting the CAGW “industry” is a full-time job for the MSM.

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    pat

    no problem jo.

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    pat

    Australian MSM only reports the CAGW stuff that fits the official narrative (e.g. Aussie taxpayers have not been made aware of the Daniel Alongi fraud charges, or the carbon fraudsters targeting the elderly in the UK, or other carbon fraud involving Deutsche Bank etc – and that’s only inconvenient facts of the financial kind):

    however, what worries the alarmists?

    10 Jan: Toronto Star: from WaPo: Chelsea Harvey: How scientific misinformation spreads through social media
    ***Researchers say polarized clusters they call “echo chambers” help spread and support attitudes such as ***doubt about climate change
    PHOTO CAPTION: Researchers looked at Facebook and the spread of both conspiracy and unsupported “alternative” theories, such as ***climate doubt or the idea that vaccines cause autism, and scientific news. They found highly segregated, insular communities around each type of content…
    Misinformation, conspiracy theories and rumours abound on the Internet, helping to propagate and support sentiments such as ***climate doubt and other forms of environmental and scientific skepticism…
    A study just published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences sheds new light on the factors that influence the spread of misinformation online…
    “I would say that in the spreading of misinformation, online confirmation bias is the driver,” said the study’s senior author, Walter Quattrociocchi, of the IMT Institute for Advanced Studies in Lucca, Italy…
    With an overwhelming abundance of evidence pointing to the existence of anthropogenic climate change (that is, climate change caused by human behaviour), for instance, many scientists have questioned why skepticism continues to be pervasive in society…
    “They really need to take this kind of bifurcation of their audiences seriously,” said Robert Brulle, a professor of sociology and environmental science at Drexel University in Philadelphia. “Continued preaching to the choir is not going to work.”
    Brulle, who has conducted research on the funding behind the ***climate change contrarian movement, suggests that climate scientists consider how they might break into large audiences rather than attempt to convert individuals one by one by showering them with evidence. Buying advertising space from large media outlets is one strategy that funders
    of the ***climate change contrarianism have successfully used to present their views, he pointed out…
    http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2016/01/10/how-scientific-misinformation-spreads-through-social-media.html

    above WaPo piece is riddled with mentions of CLIMATE CHANGE, CLIMATE DOUBT, CLIMATE CHANGE CONTRARIAN, ETC.

    i found NO mention of “climate change” in the six PNAS pages below, and only ***one reference to “global warming”…from 2011!!!

    (i have had to correct the url for the Forbes’ Kadlec 2-page article as it is incorrect in the PDF. were the authors not keen to direct people to it? worth a read)

    PDF: 6 pages: 2 Jan: PNAS: The spreading of misinformation online
    Michela Del Vicario, Alessandro Bessi, Fabiana Zollo, Fabio Petroni, Antonio Scala, Guido Caldarelli, H. Eugene Stanley, and Walter Quattrociocchi
    ***p1: In 2011 a blogger claimed that global warming was a fraud designed to diminish liberty and weaken democracy (7)…
    p6: 7. Kadlec C (2011) The goal is power: The global warming conspiracy. Forbes, July 25, 2011. Available at http://www.forbes.com/sites/charleskadlec/2011/07/25/the-goal-is-power-the-global-warming-conspiracy/

    http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2016/01/02/1517441113.full.pdf

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    Graham Richards

    These EU scientists certainly must be intellectual Giants. Imagine being able to see that the threat of incoming mountains &I or small hills would be worse than an insignificant gas, non existent sea level rises, or El Nino’ that continually fail to show up on time and ice caps that refuse point blank to shrink.

    No wonder th EU is a complete failure!

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    hunter

    Can’t tax asteroids or volcanoes…. yet.

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    GoFigure

    Well, we can probably handle the “Spanish Flu” with micro particle colloidal silver (The medical profession refuses to acnowledge that it can deal with MRSA, and there’s lots of data showing no side effects. Some flu bugs cloak themselves in fat and the usual Ag micro particles are taken in via water, so apparently, in that case you have to mix the Ag with some oil before injesting. (See the “The Silver Edge”) for more info. (No $$ in it for me, but I did purchase a micro particle Ag generator from those folks. Its ability to deal with colds, flus, pink eye, food poisoning, etc. are well documented.

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    Rico L

    Easy to solve – ash and dust trading scheme. Nothing to worry about here. We just need to drop dollar bills into the volcano, until it is plugged.

    I have visited Yellowstone and it puts a new perspective on the power of nature, when you learn what it is capable of.

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    Rocky

    Yellow Stone National Park. There is a massive lump of lava close to the surface. Have a look on the web. Wonder how much of the West USA will be blown away.

    Asteroids no one knows how many there are out there and far too frequently one arrives and it is whatever that was as It wizzes on by. There are way too many NEOs and close to nil research being done.

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    • #
      Peter Yates

      @ Rocky
      .. Maybe you should search for NEOWISE (and the older WISE project). Plus, there are other organisations that make full-sky surveys looking for NEOs, and maintain databases with all the details of the known asteroids. Plus there are countless amateur astronomers around the world who search for them, against the background of stars.

      Also, what makes you think there is a developing problem at Yellowstone after 640,000 years of relative calm?

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    dp

    Governments cannot, and they know this, tax their way to prosperity by preparing for volcano and extraterrestrial disasters. Being prepared for disaster isn’t even a goal regarding the perceived threat of climate change. They absolutely know that climate change is normal, natural, and ever present. Slogging it out with Mother Nature is also not on their radar. What they want is corporate and tax payer contributions to support their agendas, what ever they may be. Climate change fear mongering is nearly perfect because you automatically have on board people who don’t think for themselves. Because subsidies are involved you have the ear of business. Energy companies really don’t care because they are not confused in the least where real sensible energy comes from. The true solution to the fear of global warming has always been education which is why it is critical to the success of the alarmists to own the classrooms – one of the few places AlGore’s ridiculous video presentation is seen.

    If you ever think you need to better understand government intentions as shared by the compliant main stream press, consider what became of the billions forked over by the tobacco companies vs what was intended for those monies. This is very much a case of failing to learn from history. The bottom feeders of society at least have learned that life is hard – really hard, but government money comes your way in buckets if you are a moron.

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  • #
    Warren Latham

    “Experts at the European Science Foundation said … ”

    Oh did they really !

    Perhaps they should have taken note of what I. R. P. wrote just a couple of years ago.

    “Ian Rutherford Plimer is an Australian geologist, professor emeritus of earth sciences at the University of Melbourne, professor of mining geology at the University of Adelaide, and the director of multiple mineral exploration and mining companies. He has published 130 scientific papers, six books and edited the Encyclopedia of Geology.

    Where Does the Carbon Dioxide Really Come From?

    PLIMER: “Okay, here’s the bombshell. The recent volcanic eruption in Iceland . Since its first spewing of volcanic ash has, in just FOUR DAYS, NEGATED EVERY SINGLE EFFORT you have made in the past five years to control CO2 emissions on our planet – all of you.

    Of course, you know about this evil carbon dioxide that we are trying to suppress – it’s that vital chemical compound that every plant requires to live and grow and to synthesize into oxygen for us humans and all animal life.

    I know….it’s very disheartening to realize that all of the carbon emission savings you have accomplished while suffering the inconvenience and expense of driving Prius hybrids, buying fabric grocery bags, sitting up till midnight to finish your kids “The Green Revolution” science project, throwing out all of your non-green cleaning supplies, using only two squares of toilet paper, putting a brick in your toilet tank reservoir, selling your SUV and speedboat, vacationing at home instead of abroad, nearly getting hit every day on your bicycle, replacing all of your 50p light bulbs with £5 light bulbs ….. well, all of those things you have done have all gone down the tubes in just four days.

    The volcanic ash emitted into the Earth’s atmosphere in just four days – yes, FOUR DAYS – by that volcano in Iceland has totally erased every single effort you have made to reduce the evil beast, carbon. And there are around 200 active volcanoes on the planet spewing out this crud at any one time – EVERY DAY.

    I don’t really want to rain on your parade too much, but I should mention that when the volcano Mt. Pinatubo erupted in the Philippinesin 1991, it spewed out more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere than the entire human race had emitted in all its years on earth.

    Yes, folks, Mt. Pinatubo was active for over one year – think about it!!!!

    Of course, I shouldn’t spoil this ‘touchy-feely tree-hugging’ moment and mention the effect of solar and cosmic activity and the well-recognized 800-year global heating and cooling cycle, which keeps happening despite our completely insignificant efforts to affect climate change.

    And I do wish I had a silver lining to this volcanic ash cloud, but the fact of the matter is that the bush fire season across the westernUSA and Australia this year alone will negate your efforts to reduce carbon in our world for the next two to three years. And it happens every year.

    Just remember that your government just tried to impose a whopping carbon tax on you, on the basis of the bogus ‘human-caused’ climate-change scenario.

    Hey, isn’t it interesting how they don’t mention ‘Global Warming’ anymore, but just ‘Climate Change’ – you know why? It’s because the planet has COOLED by 0.7 degrees in the past few years and these global warming bull artists got caught with their pants down.

    And, just keep in mind that you might yet have an Emissions Trading Scheme – that whopping new tax – imposed on you that will achieve absolutely nothing except make you poorer. It won’t stop any volcanoes from erupting, that’s for sure.

    But, hey, relax……give the world a hug and have a nice day!!”

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      Peter Yates

      Thanks, Warren … and Ian Plimer.

      Also, not forgetting out-gassing from oceans that cover 71% of the Earth’s surface.

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    Roy Hogue

    EU scientists say Volcanoes, Asteroids are unimaginably worse than climate change

    And equally impossible to do anything about. Let’s not even mention the difficulty of getting far enough away from, say, Yellowstone, to be safe if it ever did blow.

    For some things there is no insurance policy.

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    Nicola

    Jo, please post all your blog posts on Facebook so I can like and share!

    [A fair request and a good idea. Alas, I'm an FB part timer. Thanks for the reminder, I've been useless lately. I will psyche myself up for it but I'm grateful for anyone who can do it for me. Thanks, -- Jo]

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    Brian H

    Since climate change, so-called, has been beneficial so far, and the last 10k yrs’ Optimums were all better than the present one, “unimaginably worse” is a perverse turn of phrase.

    00