By Jo Nova
Geoff Buys Cars is a car nerd commentator who spent hours trying to find evidence that the Luton airport fire was caused by an EV. To recap — 1,200 cars died, the floor collapsed, the airport fielded 16,000 calls from people who needed help, answers, another flight, or their charred car. It was a big deal to a lot of people, and he argues, a turning point in the quest to get everyone driving an electric vehicle.
In the end officials say it was a diesel, and Geoff couldn’t definitively show it was or wasn’t an EV, but he said it doesn’t matter — everyone thought it was an EV anyway, and he argues — it will destroy electric car sales either way.
If everyone else thinks it’s an EV then there is no way people are walking into car dealerships this morning with that in the news and saying “you know what, I really fancy parking one of those lithium powered electric vehicles right outside my house. I think that’s exactly what I need to do to save the planet and look after my wallet and my family.”
Today, he said, people are phoning car dealers and asking if they change their order to the 1.2 Petrol…
That was the first day after the Luton fire, but a week later he’s still hunting for the details and the plot thickens, what a hunt, through an ocean of contradictory information. He’s got quite the witty style…
Start at 1
The shortest summary I can make:
Early news reports said it was an EV or a hybrid but try finding those now… he says. Then they said it was an Evoke, but it wasn’t, then it might be a “Sport”, and the story kept changing. He wonders why images of the numberplate started circulating when he could not see those details in the video, no matter how he enhanced, magnified or worked on the image. And did the numberplate start with an A or an E? Days later, why did someone suddenly form a new account that had not posted before, and release a video from the front of the car that was only 4 seconds long? Why are the owners staying silent. Why haven’t they told us what the car was?
With so many mysterious questions he adds:
It’s not like some nefarious group within the government wants to suppress the news of the frequency and severity EV Failings
It’s not like EV sales are stalling…
It’s not the one guy who contacted me about a Tesla fire who said the police even told him to delete the photos, not take any more and don’t tell anyone… (the police!)
Maybe this is a bigger story than we think.
So if we assume that every car in that fire was a diesel or a petrol car, after the fire broke out it spread so quickly that soon, every floor was affected. …how the hell did the fire go downwards? The only way you’d breach the floor below was if there was some sort of ridiculously intense fuel that burns hotter than both diesel or petrol. What would that be? I don’t know, but a 400 kilo electric car battery would do the trick.
If there was no EV involved it would have been a one floor fire involving a few cars. Instead it was an inferno.
He does some polar bear maths:
If Dave buys an EV he saves 5 polar bears. If John buys a hybrid he saves two polar bears but if Craig’s electric car catches fire that kills 50 bears. And if Craig’s car catches fire in a carpark and takes out 1,200 cars that’s 500 polar bears.
Impartially he wonders if it was just grand incompetence, with no sprinkler system, no fire extinguishers, greed and cost cutting? In the end he thinks it’s both:
It’s systemic either way. There’s a problem with modern technology, and it’s the same old age of greed and cost cutting. We live in a world where your log burner is going to be taken away to save the environment, and a council can remove a play park due to the risk it poses to children. But a manufacturer can sell you a 6 figure car and you can park it in an 8 figure carpark that’s not safe and it can all go to s… and that’s OK.
Geoff Buys Cars: Video one on Luton: The Luton Airport Fire just KILLED the EV market. Here’s why.
h/t David of Cooyal in Oz
Seems Geoff drives a Volvo 850 😀
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4th October, Venice, Italy:
21 People Die After Electric Bus Falls Off Venice Overpass In ‘Apocalyptic’ Crash
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/21-people-die-after-electric-bus-falls-off-venice-overpass-in-apocalyptic-crash/ar-AA1hKevp
Other media claim that it was an LNG-powered bus. However I was following the flash news directly as soon as the tragedy occurred, and I am sure that the reporting was referring to an electric bus. The first responders tried to put our the flames but found it impossible to control.
CNN confirms that the bus was electric quoting the fire chief: Italy’s fire services said they would consider whether the bus’s battery may have caused the fire to spread more rapidly after it overheated.
According to the company website of the bus operator, the bus was electric-powered.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/italian-authorities-investigate-venice-bus-crash-that-killed-at-least-21-people/ar-AA1hG2Af
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Made a search: What caused the electric bus crash tragedy of Venice. This is what came up:
According to the news, the mayor of Venice has ordered an immediate stop to electric buses operated by La Linea company after a bus crashed in the Italian city, injuring 15 people. This is the company’s second accident following the fiery Oct.3 collision that killed 21 people. The bus crashed Saturday evening into a building in Mestre, a Venice borough 1234. The cause of the accidents is still under investigation.
It’s surprising that the bus company has had TWO bad events. Italy’s news media seem to have forgotten all about the electric bus, they obey their masters as all other news media do.
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Several days pass, and there is no further word from authorities on this fire. Even the owner has not stepped forward, maybe the owner knows what type of car it was? Have authorities interviewed the owners?? This only makes sense if they are covering up something. The EV enthusiasts don’t seem interested either.
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This may help to explain the silence (and ‘alternative facts’) surrounding the matter:
Who is responsible for losses of the Luton Airport Carpark Fire?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LO25cJQUKU
(5m 44s video)
It’s time to look more closely at your insurance policy. The last time I bought a new car I opted to get comprehensive insurance with zero excess. I went through all of the insurers’ product disclosure statements (PDSs) (note to insurers – if you get lazy and tack a couple of supplementary statements onto your main statement, thus placing the onus on the insured to figure it all out, you’ll get no business from me) and, after deciding on one, I wrote down a series of questions and started an online chat session with the insurer. Amusingly, the kid at the insurer was so taken aback about someone having read through the PDS that he became suspicious and got his ‘supervisor’ to sit in on the session. Anyway, at one point neither of them could explain what one of the provisions meant, which indicated to me that no one reads PDSs, not even the staff at the insurer. Interesting. The session lasted about 45 minutes and I was amazed that they didn’t pull the old ‘sorry, you seem to be inactive so we’ve closed the session – please connect again if you need further assistance’ stunt — we’ve all been there, haven’t we?
The problem is that it is all so difficult to wade through the documentation and to understand it. If we ever get a genuine conservative government in this country we could expect to see the balance of power in commercial relationships adjusted so that it protects the ‘weaker’ party, meaning the consumer. We would then have government that governs for the people rather than for themselves and for their donors and mates and for the benefit of activist groups with extreme agenda. But I don’t expect to live to see this, so, in the meantime, I have to decide, amongst many other things, if I want to continue using undercover parking at the airport. But open-air parking will be just as problematic, won’t it?
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DD: Thanks for the reply, but “calling my insurer” doesn’t begin to explain why not a single news hound in the UK has tracked down and talked to the Land Rover owner. I do see why your insurer would hang up on you, though. We probably agree on things, but this is the longest way ’round the barn that I can imagine.
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The fire safety problem of EVs in enclosed spaces has been recognised and reports written but probably ignored because for woke technology like EVs and covid vaccines “the science (and engineering) is settled” and nothing can possibly go wrong.
Plus, those Elites who make the decisions likely subscribe to post-modernism so they don’t believe in objective truth.
Exhibit:
A report from UK, 2023.
T0194 – Covered car parks – fire safety guidance for electric vehicle
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1168956/covered-car-parks-fire-safety-guidance-for-electric-vehicles.pdf
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Also, on NoTricksZone a report with video link (in German) about a house in central Germany badly damage by a battery explosion.
Not only was there extensive damage to the home, which now risks collapsing, but also three people were slightly injured.This is not the first time such an incident has occurred. Blackout News reports of “a worrying series of incidents in which photovoltaic home storage systems caught fire. There were already several such incidents in Germany and Austria in the second half of September.”
And in Stirling a fire in the local Woolworths supermarket has resulted in complete damage and probable demolition. Not due to a battery but no overhead sprinklers. Damage about $26 million. And a number of smaller businesses in the mall are out of business also.
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The fire damaging the house was an EV fire that spread very fast over to the wooden door of the house.
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Seems there are 2 cases, one with a car and the second with an exploded storage battery in the house.
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Home Electric Battery Storage Unit In Central Germany Explodes, Causing Extensive Damage
By P Gosselin on 17. October 2023
Large electric batteries, like those used storing energy for electric cars and homes, are not showing a very good safety record as they are prone to fires and explosions.
Today German site Blackout News here reports how one home in central Germany had an entire exterior wall blown out as a storage battery exploded last Friday. See extent of damage here:
Not only was there extensive damage to the home, which now risks collapsing, but also three people were slightly injured. Police are now investigating.
The police have not made public the manufacturer of the battery, but Blackout News reports that it is a LiFePo4 type battery storage system (pv-magazine).
Lithium-ion batteries can explode or catch fire due to a phenomenon called thermal runaway, which is a chain reaction that occurs when the battery experiences a rapid increase in temperature.
This is not the first time such an incident has occurred. Blackout News reports of “a worrying series of incidents in which photovoltaic home storage systems caught fire. There were already several such incidents in Germany and Austria in the second half of September.”
So far it is not known why the battery reported in this story exploded.
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Using a search engine you find a lot of houses damaged or burned by car battery explosion.
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EVs should have separate parking areas from ICE vehicles with appropriate separation between individual EVs and also the ICE parking area.
The extra cost of doing this should be borne by EV owners, not subsidised by taxpayers which is how the more woke governments like Australia’s would want to do it (if they were prepared to even recognise the problem).
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The premiums on insuring ICE vehicles will just be doubled to moderate risk of EV’s to the insurer.
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Not necessarily as if some insurance companies refuse to insure battery cars at all, they will be able to keep offering reasonable prices to normal car owners. That would make it impossible for any company to penalise normal cars to subsidise battery cars and stay in business.
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Or an analogy of “if you want a voice referendum then you fund it”.
Suddenly they don’t want one…
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Why not ask the Australian PM why he and his drones don’t drive EVs and won’t be anytime soon?
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Where is the second-hand market for these BMW armoured personnel carriers?
I imagine feuding organised crime families would snap them up.
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Likely sold off to the highest bidder in the Middle East.
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skeptcynic: organized crime families named Biden?
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But David,
these cars aren’t Voter proof.
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David,
If they hit a mine their toast . Anything but small arms will take them out . Put a huge battery and boom . Survivability low . Bit like Milleys battery powered tanks….
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Sounds like they’re AFRAID of the people.
Can’t imagine why.
…hacks vehicle security, locks door & windows, disables engine, disables security, walks away…
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Don’t worry, there will be more Lutons and just wait until this sort of thing happens in a basement carpark.
It also seems the UK and possibly other govts are running interference on the reporting of EV fires.
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It may have already happened here on Gold Coast. Some months ago a strange fire happened about 5kms from us in an underground carpark under shops and units. The fire was incredibly hot and the damage quite severe but only two cars involved. When I asked if it was an EV that caught fire, the person whose business was involved just denied it with an unusual dismissive comment and closed the topic. Very odd, just like the airport story.
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Ronin, I believe you are correct.
I am a fire investigator.
I write fire reports.
Insurance companies, gov departments and accredited agencies can get access to our database.
Those are the “Experts” that review and release our data. Few if any have fire fighting/engineering qualifications.
They “could” cherry pick and choose to get the outcome they want. Many do.
I have access to the raw data. The real data… Not that which is homogenised by an “expert” and released as “fact”.
I laugh when ever I see the media publish a “fact” and report “Fire experts have found this”, “Fire experts have found that.”
They never ask me. They don’t need to. There are so many self appointed “fire experts” to choose from.. They can find one to suit any agenda..
You get told what they want you to know.
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If an EV catches fire in a carpark building but the media doesn’t report it, did it really happen?
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No doubt , you cant have EV hesitancy amongst the populace can you? Someone would call you an anti-evver or something.
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It’s not like they would lie…
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Unless a politician or public serpent has earned my trust (which is rare), I automatically disbelieve everything they say unless I can see evidence for the truth with my own eyes.
I assume they are either lying, deceiving or just wrong due to incompetence. It’s safer that way.
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For me, the biggest concern is the absolute silence from authorities since the fire erupted. The old adage, If it looks like a duck, the chances are it’s a duck! This is one big “duck up”. Just as with covid and the alleged vaccines more harm will come from a vacuum and the lack of truth.
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Mr. Penguinite: Indeed, the silence is deafening.
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“… the same old age of greed and cost cutting ….”
This is an ambiguous (and disappointing) expression.
Do you think this greed is really about money?
Or is it about prestige, feeling superior, and smug, working on a Green Project, or having the wrong objectives, like thinking there’s a Climate Emergency, and we have to sacrifice everything to ‘Save the Planet’? And, because it’s AN EMERGENCY, time is of the essence, so no need to find a competent Engineer, set the objectives, then create a plan, review with other disciplines, and assess the risks? Perhaps, even do some prototyping.
Or is it arrogance, resulting in thinking that your high Intelligence is a superior substitute for the Knowledge, Understanding and Experience of seasoned Scientists and Engineers with the relevant experience? After all, who needs those when you control other people’s money, and you have climbed your way to the top by being a Generalist. This is a person that knows having any technical specialisation inhibits career progression.
And I can’t believe Cost Cutting is a major factor when there’s so much government money being thrown around, with so little result, or accountability. 🙂
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Excellent comment.
Also there are deadlines imposed by politicians and their hangers on that force projects to a ‘public relations’ date, and cancellation cannot be thought about. Look up the R101 disaster, where various decisions were made to the design (which no survivors of the project could remember making at the subsequent Inquiry). The only conclusion was to cancel and scrapp the
R100 which had been delivered first (and worked as approved by a flight both ways across the Atlantic) but that was made by Engineers (e.g. Barnes Wallace) and rigid cost control.
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The carpark was refurbished recently, so not new. It most likely had minimum floor to floor heights not allowing sprinklers to be retro-fitted, so couldn’t be upgraded to ‘deemed to satisfy’ compliance. So they turn to a Fire Engineer to figure out a ‘Fire Engineered Solution’ thus saving structure from demolition, using advance computer models to model fire behaviour in multiple scenario’s . Was EV battery fires one of the models? These Solutions are mainly concerned with life preservation , not so much property, thus has enhanced escape routes, fire detection and evacuation systems. No-one died so it worked that way. There a many thousands of structures that have avoided sprinklers with Fire Engineered Solutions, and I’ve disliked the option since Fire Engineering first started being God in the 2000’s.
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Thanks JohnA, that’s makes a lot of sense. Basically preservation of life over property. I am going to venture also that even if a fire sprinkler system was installed it may have had minimal effect anyway.
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No John, it was built new , 4 years ago.
Fire sprinklers are not a regulatory requirement in above ground car parks in the UK.
However, water drainage is needed, which dictates sloped floors and collection pipes (often plastic in new builds) , such that any fuel leaking from melted plastic fuel tanks would carry the fire rapidly actoss the floor and down to lower levels once the downpipes also melted.
EVs are not necessary to spread these dense car park fires.
Look up the report on the similar 2017 Liverpool car park fire,.. no suggestion of EV involvement there but a very similar result !
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https://anbeal.co.uk/page64.html
A good study of the Liverpool fire and the changes to cars that have happened over the last 20-30 years. In the UK the Blair Labour government made owning diesel cars cheaper to save the polar bears and so there are now a lot more than there used to be. The point about the fuel is correct as people have not been able to understand the difference between ‘flashpoint’ and ‘autoignition temperature’. Even Geoff was at fault by showing a clip of a match over saucers of petrol and diesel but not addressing autoignition.
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Robert,
Cost cutting is a legitimate business function . Safety and accountability are the issue and that is no longer the focus of any organization . They have become focused on “social engineering” and not real engineering. The best way to cut costs is to cut out all the graft and rent seeking.
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In support of Robert’s comment take Snowy 2 where $100M were spent on geological and geophysical surveys, all saying “Nope, don’t do that!”, but they went ahead regardless, and…whoops! Good bye “Florence”!
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Our Aussie car expert with an engineering background explains why it’s a hybrid.
Luton Airport carpark fire: what the media is not saying, Auto Expert John Cadogan
and
Also in Sydney airport Carpark 1 month ago
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I posted this YouTube vid on the last story about Luton from John Cadogan , his knowledge of cars is very good and he even found a history of this diesel hybrid catching fire . His explanation for why he suspects it was the lithium battery that caught fire is perfectly sound and logical .
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THERE!…… corrected that for you !
There is no proof yet what type vehicle it was…!
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Did you watch the video and also read the commentary from experienced fire fighters and mechanics? I am no expert, but it seemed compelling enough for me, even on “the balance of probabilities.”
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Mr. Chad: Another EV enthusiast tryiing to deflect from bad news? Either you have seen the video “proof” or you haven’t. If you have, you’re just another lying EV enthusiast who can’t handle bad news. If you have not seen the video of the Land Rover battery fire, then take a look rather than being blissfully ignorant. Not “could be” after you see the video.
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Let’s hope the voters wake up quickly and refuse to buy these TOXIC disasters and if necessary change their votes to a more intelligent party.
Hopefully this will happen if minor parties promise to block the introduction of these dangerous , expensive death traps.
Of course Aussies could change to these TOXIC disasters and the weather and climate wouldn’t notice.
Just look up the data from OWI Data for co2 emissions since 1990 and compare OECD and NON OECD countries emissions.
IOW they’re lying to us and we should just ignore their ongoing BS and FRAUD. That’s if you BELIEVE that co2 is dangerous and we have a Climate CRISIS.
There’s obviously no climate CRISIS and Humans have flourished since 1950. So why can’t the con merchants and liars spend 5 minutes online to look up the data?
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AGAIN check out the OECD and NON OECD co2 emissions data since 1988 and understand the facts.
This takes just 5 minutes, so why do they feed us a pack of lies? And why do we fall for it?
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/annual-co2-emissions-per-country?country=Non-OECD+%28GCP%29~OECD+%28GCP%29
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In the UK only a few homes have a garage under or attached to the home.
In Australia every new home for the last few decades has a garage under or attached to the home.
EVs may be growing in popularity at the moment but just wait until a few homes are burnt to the ground from an EV fire in the garage.
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“Funny” story of a very basic (ie pre seat belt beeps/lane changing beeps/collision beeps) ICE car parked in an internal house garage that almost burnt the house down.
Family moved into their newly bought house to discover garage was a very tight fit length wise for their car. Brain wave – if they attach that old mattress to the back wall it will be easy to park rather than try and inch close to the wall. All went well for first couple of months.
One night after “easily” parking the car and jumping into bed their sleep was disturbed by the smoke alarm in the garage. They raced out and found the mattress smouldering away and the car headlights still on.
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The implications for insuring an EV or the home of an EV owner are huge. That’s a lot of money at stake. A huge incentive to down play the risks. If EVs and their parking places become uninsurable then that’s the end.
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Few UK houses have garages underneath but many have them attached, often with bedrooms above.
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Attached garages are extremely common with UK houses and garages within the building are common in some newer housing as they maximise the number of houses on a site. A garage below ground level or even half and half are not common here. Yes, a lot of attached garages have been modified with rooms above to increase the floorspace of the house. 1930s semi-detached are very popular for this. There have also been a lot of incorporated garages converted to rooms. Probably the saving grace is that very few garages are actually used for cars, sometimes because modern cars no longer fit. However, as Chevrolet advise not charging your battery car within 50 feet of anything you value, or even park it that distance away, there is still a risk.
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The old adage greed and cost cutting; an ambiguous expression?!
Not true at all. The two things go together like ‘bread and butter’
In Sydney for example just look at the number of high rise apartment buildings with major faults that are uninhabitable.
So greed and cost cutting ? Yes most definitely ..
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How many reports do people need? Geoff is right, there was so much speculation of the Luton fire being caused by an BPV that it’s now assumed to be true. Years ago Richard Hammond on the Top Gear program crashed his battery powered super car in Switzerland, almost killing himself in the process. When that program reported it took the local fire authority 2 days to finally extinguish the fire, it was a true WTF moment for me. Or at least , hang on……
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Pretty sure that was in the Grand Tour show, not Top Gear but the point still stands!
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Picky, picky. Yes, you are correct, it was a segment for the Grand Tour.
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Working out which car started the fire is a distraction. The obvious fact is that only a car park filled with EVs could escalate into this disaster and the proof is that prior to EVs this type of massive fire never occurred. Also, the heat generated from an EV fire is significantly greater than an ICE vehicle and that’s what destroyed the entire car park.
In terms of which type of vehicle did star the fire, the most likely candidate would be an EV on charge. ICE vehicle fires almost always occur when the vehicle is running, rather than stationary and blaming a diesel vehicle is exactly what a climate alarmist would do, but this would be the least likely scenario as diesel fuel is more difficult to ignite than petrol.
Do we know if the airport had charging outlets and were these outlets on that level where the fire started ?. If yes, that’s almost certainly the cause.
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Looking at that Luton fire video, the fire looks busy without being tall as a fuel fire would be and with no black smoke.
A diesel car with the engine stopped has no fuel pressure to supply a fire, pressure is generated when the engine is running, so even if a leak dribbled onto a hot exhaust, it would have to happen moments after the engine was shut down, it certainly looks like a battery was involved at the start.
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I managed to find info that indicates no charge points were on the top level of the car park, so we can rule out a charging related fire. However, an explosion was heard when the fire erupted, which would be more likely from an EV battery
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You need to read the reports and watch the videos again..
The Luton fire started with a car that was still being driven into the car park,..it was in a traffic isle. …so definitely NOT charging.
But if it was a diesel ( or petrol) the engine would still be running , so pressureised fuel could be involved .
Be aware also, those diesel (non hybrid) RRovers are known to have fuel leakage resulting in fires…(JLR have issues several recalls to address that issue)
High temperature exhaust DPF units are also known to be fire starters.
A similar car park fire in Liverpool also resulted in mass car and infrastructure distruction, but that was in 2017, when there were few EVs on the roads and none were implicated in that problem.
Also think how burning fuel from melted plastic fuel tanks might spread a fire around an open car park with sloping floors and no barrier walls ?
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Sorry, I don’t accept that, so the driver drove around still burning, managed to find a park, tried to put the fire out with a handheld extinguisher without raising the bonnet then disappeared, hmm.
Can you explain the concentrated fire roiling under the car on the left side and no black smoke, sloping floor?
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Mr. Ronin: I see below that Chad did not reply to your excellent question. He must be a tesla saleman, he is chasing fuel down drain pipes (where no pressure = no explosion) rather than respond to your question.
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You’ve mentioned plastic fuel tanks twice now in posts.
My diesel ute does not have a plastic fuel tank but a robust metal one, the same as any ICV I have ever owned. All the heavy vehicles I see on the road have metal fuel tanks. All the earthmoving equipment I see has metal fuel tanks.
Perhaps there is a very good reason for this – like you don’t put combustible substances in flammable plastic containers in vehicles for obvious safety reasons.
Even my motor mower has a metal fuel tank.
Perhaps you could supply evidence of the use of plastic fuel tanks in ICVs.
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https://autoexpert.com.au/posts/plastic-versus-steel-fuel-tank-which-is-safer
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15127584/high-tech-fuel-tanks/
TI says that roughly 98 percent of today’s European vehicles have plastic tanks versus about 75 percent in the U.S. Compared with an equivalent steel tank, TI claims its plastic ship-in-a-bottle tank is about 20 percent, or five pounds, lighter. And the use of plastic tanks should continue to increase in the face of rising fuel-economy standards where every last ounce of weight savings counts.
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Lots of cars have plastic fuel tanks. Machinery too.
And a melted fuel tank would not make nearly as much heat as the fuel in it.
First the fire (external) melts the fuel tank above the fuel level in the tank. The fuel keeps the lower parts of the tank cool at the start. Once the fuel starts to leak you are in real trouble.
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….and once that leaking burning fuel runs under those closely parked cars next to yours….they are in trouble too..
Its a “snowball” effect.
..or you could call it “thermal runaway “ .
You dont need any EVs to burn down a whole car park if there is no fire suppression system installed
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Why do you think that metal is more robust? Metal bends and punctures and corrodes. Suitable plastics are more rigid, lighter much more chemical resistant. The thing that punctures a metal tank would likely do some sort of similar affect on plastic.
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Because it is Professor.
Unless you have information to the contrary.
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Why don’t you do your own research?
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There is no precise temperature at which concrete melts. Depending on its composition, concrete melts at temperatures between 1150°C and 1200°C. By the way carbon steel melts at temperatures between 1425°C and 1540°C.
A Lithium Battery runaway burns at around 2000C while a petrol or diesel fire burns around 700C
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Carbon steel softens and becomes structurally unsound beyond 550C.
Concrete degrades at significantly lower temperatures than its melting point.
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Yes, and this is Luton issue. The lithium fire from an EV can easily overcome the thermal protection of 50mm of concrete and compromise the reinforcing steel below.
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We had a non-EV fire in our apartment block garage a number of years ago and the only vehicles physically damaged were the cars nearest to it and that was melted tyres and body work. Others were smoke damaged but the fire was confined to the garage and the floors above were smoke damaged but otherwise structurally sound. I am glad EVs weren’t a virtue signalling fad then, as some of our neigbours would have boughy them.
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Burn the witches! Or to quote Charles Dana “If a dog bites a man it is not news, but if a man bites a dog it is.”
as per the previous post, EV’s are less likely to catch fire than ICE vehicles
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I think you are quite wrong there Peter, when you consider the ratio of EV’s to ICE cars on the road, EVs are well represented.
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ICE are missing these dangerous batteries liking to explode. But believe what you like, it’s your religion.
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On the “man bites dog” quote, it’s attribution is discussed at:
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/11/22/dog-bites/?amp=1
The adage predates Dana although frequently attributed to him.
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The issue with EVs is not the likelihood of a fire, but in the outcome. Just look at this mess !!!
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Where do you get your data from ?
There is a report from the USA Insurance industry that concluded there were 25 EV fires , compared to 1500 ICE fires…”PER 100,000 SALES “
Unfortunately they are F*kwits !
The 199,000 ice fires they based this on were from a total vehicle fleet of 270 + million on the road ….which is actually a ratio of 74 per 100,000. Vehicles.
Dito the EV figure which was based on a claimed 52 total fires ?? ..when there were 4125 EV fires reported last year on a total fleet of approx 2.7 million EV on the road.
That gives a ratio of 153 EV fires per 100,000 vehicles !!
Thats double the rate of ice fires
https://www.carsdover.com/electric-car-fire-statistics/
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https://electrek.co/2022/01/12/government-data-shows-gasoline-vehicles-are-significantly-more-prone-to-fires-than-evs/
https://www.torquenews.com/14335/tesla-and-other-evs-catch-fire-19x-less-often-gas-cars
etc etc etc
burn the witches! (this could be my new tage line
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Ahh ! Peter, why dont you use your brain instead of relying on dud info from f#ckwits ?
You migh have noticed that the data they refered to in your link was the same … “ AutoInsuranceEZ”….. data with 1,539 ice fires per 100,000 SOLD !….that i mentioned in the previous post.
..Utter rubbish.
Or …..maybe you believe that of the 1,000,000 ice SOLD in Australia last year , there were over 15,300 caught fire ? ( note ,..that would mean 40+ every day !)
No… they screwed up their maths, ..their 199,000 fires were from a vehicle fleet of 270 million total ice’s on the USA roads.
And for EVs,….you may want to look at the latest 2023 data from the NTSB and EIA ,..here..
https://www.carsdover.com/electric-car-fire-statistics/.
.. which reports 4125 EV fires last year in the usa fleet of 2.7million , or 153 per 100,000
130
Wrong Peter
All fires including this Luton one will record all the ICE cars of the 1,200 as catching fire.
So, work that out!
80
If the AGW disciples couldn’t lie, they would be struck dumb. If their lips are moving …
100
Not only misleading and wrong but missing the point.
Every week we read about criminals using stolen cars to commit their crimes and then torching them. That adds to the number of ICE vehicles burnt but it doesn’t add to the likelihood of an ICE vehicle spontaneously combusting.
When a BEV spontaneously combusts in a carpark or on a ship it often sets fire to a lot of ICVs. That adds to the number of ICE vehicles burnt but it doesn’t add to the likelihood of an ICE vehicle spontaneously combusting.
The main point is not just the likelihood of spontaneous combustion, but the immense amounts of dangerous toxic chemical atmospheric pollution when they burn, and the toxic water runoff from the attempts to extinguish the fire, plus the duration and intensity of these fires.
90
I asked GPT about the chances of a diesel vehicle catching fire. About zero is the answer. But you can read it in more detail. Diesel is hard to induce to burn and requires high temperatures and high pressure, which are generally not encountered whilst stationary in a car park! Intrestingly GPT also divined the reason for my question was that I was interested in the Luton fire and most of the footnotes are talking about EVs not diesels and specifically Luton!
It is very rare for a diesel car to spontaneously catch fire, as diesel fuel is less flammable than petrol and requires higher temperatures and pressures to ignite. According to a report by the Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency¹, diesel vehicles had a fire risk of 0.0006% in Sweden in 2022, compared to 0.08% for petrol vehicles. This means that petrol vehicles were more than 130 times more likely to catch fire than diesel vehicles in that year.
However, diesel car fires can still occur due to various factors, such as mechanical failure, human error, electrical faults, or external causes. Some of the signs of a potential diesel car fire include smoke, fuel leaks, overheating, or unusual smells. If you notice any of these signs, you should stop the vehicle as soon as possible, turn off the engine, and get out of the car. You should also call the emergency services and try to extinguish the fire with a suitable fire extinguisher if it is safe to do so.
To prevent diesel car fires, you should follow some basic safety tips, such as:
– Regularly inspect and maintain your vehicle, especially the fuel system and electrical wiring.
– Avoid overloading or modifying your vehicle in ways that could affect its performance or safety.
– Store and handle diesel fuel properly, and avoid spilling or leaking it.
– Keep a fire extinguisher in your vehicle and know how to use it.
– Follow the manufacturer’s instructions and recommendations for your vehicle.
I hope this information helps you understand the risk and causes of diesel car fires. Please let me know if you have any other questions. 😊
Source: Conversation with Bing, 18/10/2023
(1) Electric vehicle fires are very rare. The risk for petrol and diesel …. https://theconversation.com/electric-vehicle-fires-are-very-rare-the-risk-for-petrol-and-diesel-vehicles-is-at-least-20-times-higher-213468.
(2) Electric vehicle fires are rare, risk for petrol and diesel vehicles at …. https://thedriven.io/2023/09/20/electric-vehicle-fires-are-rare-risk-for-petrol-and-diesel-vehicles-at-least-20-times-higher/.
(3) Electric vehicle fires are rare—the risk for petrol and diesel vehicles …. https://techxplore.com/news/2023-09-electric-vehicle-rarethe-petrol-diesel.html.
(4) 10 Car Fire Statistics in the UK: 2023 Update | House Grail. https://housegrail.com/car-fire-statistics-uk/.
(5) Diesel car blamed for inferno that damaged up to 1500 vehicles. https://www.perthnow.com.au/lifestyle/motoring/diesel-car-blamed-for-inferno-that-damaged-up-to-1500-vehicles-c-12183458.
(6) Luton airport fire news LIVE: ‘Cause of car park blaze revealed’ with travel chaos and flights delayed after inferno. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/live/article-12617769/Luton-Airport-fire-LIVE-flights-updates-car-park.html.
(7) Are electric and hybrid cars a greater fire risk? Here’s why EV blazes are harder to put out…. https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/other/are-electric-and-hybrid-cars-a-greater-fire-risk-here-s-why-ev-blazes-are-harder-to-put-out/ar-AA1ieevQ.
(8) Diesel car blamed for inferno that damaged up to 1500 vehicles. https://www.hawkesburygazette.com.au/story/8384247/diesel-car-blamed-for-inferno-that-damaged-up-to-1500-vehicles/.
(9) Diesel fire: Causes, Signs, and right ways to respond to it. https://4safetysupport.com/diesel-fire/.
70
Graeme,
Plenty of confounding factors :
Vehicle age
Climate where operated
Design faults
Manufacturing quality
50
Odd then, that there have been so many,…especially in diesel Range Rovers ?
Do a little more research.
31
I’m cynical but realistic.
As the Left becomes, day by day, more destructive, violent and dangerous, I can see their members of the anti-energy lobby deliberately burning ICE vehicles to “prove” they are just as dangerous as EVs or more so.
We know they are up to it:
90
“As the Left becomes, day by day, more destructive, violent and dangerous, I can see their members of the anti-energy lobby deliberately burning ICE vehicles.”
Cameras are your friend.
150
Not just the anti-energy lobby.
The ARRB recently released a video of a test investigating safety risk of fires caused by electric vehicles in Australian road tunnels. The test used a non-EV Mazda Protege.
40
Car park spaces should become wider and burning electric cars dunked in baths of water, under proposed Government guidelines to prevent battery fires spreading out of control.
https://dailysceptic.org/2023/10/17/car-parking-spaces-will-have-to-be-bigger-because-of-electric-car-fires/
60
How do you propose the car will be moved and placed in a ‘water bath’ when fully involved in fire.
130
I watched “Geoff Drives Cars” for the first time because Mr Grim Nasty posted it on the Jo’s 1st Luton Fire Post.
After that I was pretty certain that it was a Range Rover EV that started the fire. Now I am convinced of it.
110
Can anyone find a still photo on the net showing the burning EV that started the fire?
40
When diesel burns it generates a lot of black smoke.
This was not present at the car on fire at Luton Airport car park
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Photograph-of-a-diesel-fuel-burn-at-the-US-Coast-Guard-Fire-and-Safety-Test-Detachment_fig29_277437979
130
Carpark owners, if they have an ounce of common sense will have to provide a segregated area for EVs to park away from other vehicles and sensitive infrastructure, like transformers, escalators and lifts.
90
And the very first with segregated area common sense action should be hospitals. The St Vincents Hospital Melbourne precinct being a case in point. The hospitals home page lists 3 parking stations providing around 1155 spaces with 240 of those apparently under the hospital itself – St Vincent’s, Building A – Main Hospital, Underground Car park.
100
Spot on Earl
80
My observation is that many EV drivers have acquired them as part of an income package e.g. novated lease or, in the case of medical employment, exempt from fringe benefit tax. So it follows that the proportion of EVs in hospital long term parks will be above average. Ka-boom?
50
When EV batteries “burn” they do not produce “smoke” as in the incomplete combustion of diesel or petrol.
A lithium battery thermal runaway produces a plume of grey toxic chemicals.
Once the car itself catches fire burning plastic component will produce smoke
So an EV fire will start with a grey plume and then darker smoke will appear as the fire consumes the car
190
Switching to all-EVs is not going to achieve anything. Bjorn Lomborg has calculated that if all vehicles were EVs by 2030, this would only reduce global temperatures by 0.00001 degree C by 2100.
150
Graeme 4 how will we ever be able to measure many thousandths of a degree anyway? And for ZIP change?
And who wants to buy these expensive, TOXIC disasters in the first place and place your family at risk every night while they’re charging?
100
Nev, the point I was trying to make is that the politicians want us to move to EVs to “save the planet”. But the truth is that shifting to EVs won’t make a scrap of difference, so the entire effort is stupid and wasteful of a country’s resources and money.
I certainly don’t support EVs and won’t buy one. I have an e-bike and carefully limit its occasional charging remotely from my residence.
60
No worries Graeme 4, I was just adding my 2 bobs worth to your accurate point of view.
I agree with you 100% and Lomborg often cops a kick in the guts from both sides, but I still agree with him most of the time.
40
Don’t worry the Biden loony has just wasted many more BILLIONS of $ to build more Hydrogen HUBs and of course ZERO change to climate or weather.
And they use fossil fuels to make the Hydrogen so no sense at all and the monster Hydrogen explosions will certainly make the news and hopefully start to wake up the voters in the USA and around the world.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2023/10/15/ready-fire-aim-explode/
100
Twelve hundred cars aflame,
Is a terrible scandal and shame,
Many rumours abound,
Till the true cause be found,
As to who or what is to blame.
210
I’ve posted articles about the fire on the local Nextdoor website. The responses have been interesting. Most people have dismissed the possibility of an EV fire only time will tell.
70
A fire starting in a DIESEL vehicle?
Given the physical and chemical properties of diesel fuel, there had to be a PRIMARY ignition source to burn through the flexible fuel lines, for a start.
Raw diesel fuel is MUCH harder to ignite than “petrol / gasoline”.. It, like kerosene, has a much higher flash-point.
Diesel has a flash point between 37.8C and 64.4C, depending on the “grade”.”Winter-grade” which is laced with “petrol” to prevent it turning to jelly in extreme cold, is interesting stuff. Common Kerosene (Paraffin) range is 37.8C – 72.2C
So, how does a diesel vehicle catch fire?, especially whist stationary and with the engine and “ignition” (and fuel pumps) turned off?
Of course, once the fire has spread throughout the vehicle and starts “cooking the fuel tank, it gets a bit more exciting With a steel fuel tank, the heat from the encroaching fire will start to “boil the fuel in the tank, It will also compromise the seal on the fuel gauge and filler cap, not to forget the rubber “flexible sections in the filler pipe.LOTS of fuel vapour passing through a flame into the oxygen in the atmosphere; what could go wrong?.
Why did the fire spread to destroy the entire building?
Apparently no “sprinkler system, for starters. Water is a good way to spread a hydrocarbon fueled fire, BUT the water also carries away a lot of the HEAT which is essential to continued combustion. So everybody else gets a free car-wash.
Portable extinguishers? The ones standing forlornly near that vehicle are likely Privately owned ones from other peoples’ cars. Doesn’t EVERYBODY carry one? (They are a one-use device and have a definite “shelf-life).
There are three ways to extinguish a petrol / diesel fire.
i. Dry powder: This “occludes oxygen if generously used (lots of extinguishers. Mainly intended for extinguishing fires where LIVE electrical equipment is involves. Related to the reason the local Fire Brigade is reluctant to play lots of water on your solar-panel bedecked roof in a daylight fire.
2. Carbon Dioxide: This, of course only involves CO2 that has been “attitude adjusted”. Not much use outdoors in a stiff breeze, but it does not leave a nasty residue like the powder types. As certain university students discovered, decades ab go, the big “bell” nozzle fits neatly over a large bottle of large bottles of various libations and a one or two second “blip” will chill the contents nicely.
3. BCF: These are a CFC-based discharger. These are usually blue. About the only place you will see one of them, in these benighted times, is at an airfield / airport. They are the ONLY consistently effective suppression for METAL fires; the heat and related air currents of a seriously-alight aeroplane will drive away water and powder and requires prodigious amounts of “foam” to suppress. BCF extinguishers are commonly seen on military airfield; a big blue cylinder on wheels and with a long tubular “dispenser to reduce the risk of cooking the operator, even in their shiny fire suit. These are the ONLY consistently effective extinguishers for “METAL” fires (burning aircraft).
Modern aircraft are largely constructed form aluminium and Magnesium alloys. Not all that easy to set alight to the “burning metal” stage,but once that happens, almost impossible to extinguish: Hence the “evil” BCF extinguisher. BCF forms a dense, shimmering clued of Oxygen occlusion. CO2, whilst good at lower temperatures, will actually break don at high temps and SUPPORT a metal fire. To the “concerned citizen” types, it is better to let people burn to protect the “Ozone layer; decisions, decisions!
Of course, the eco-nazis do NOT want the peasantry flying Hither and Yon; that “privilege” is reserve for “moral superiors”.
90
Bruce, google Land Rover diesel fires …..
..and ask why here have been so many recalls to fix diesel fire risks.
And dig a little deeper to answer your question ..
“ So, how does a diesel vehicle catch fire?, especially whist stationary and with the engine and “ignition” (and fuel pumps) turned off?”
..maybe because it wasnot stationary, and the engine was still running as it is in the transit lane of the park. ,
51
“Diesel has a flash point between 37.8C and 64.4C, depending on the “grade”.”Winter-grade” which is laced with “petrol” to prevent it turning to jelly in extreme cold, is interesting stuff. Common Kerosene (Paraffin) range is 37.8C – 72.2C”
Sorry Bruce, automotive diesel flash point is fixed at 66 degC, the cloud or pour point does vary through the seasons, no ‘petrol’ is put in diesel, but kero can be dropped down the tower or injected to the flash spec to make it lighter for winter use.
Yes , it’s possible the driver bailed and ran leaving things running thus supplying a constant feed to the fire.
40
Fire and …. rain. I heard this morning a Tesla battery failed in Scotland due to the water plus battery factor. The cause? Scotland has a lot of wet weather, too much, so no warranty. 17000 pounds for a new one, and stop driving in the rain, in Scotland. Lol.
Just what I heard, not confirmed.
You would think they would have this stuff worked out.
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EV Won’t Start After Driving in Rain, Owner Left Speechless When Stuck with $20K Bill
Americans thinking about buying a Tesla electric vehicle might have just gotten a reason to pump the brakes on their plans — especially if they live somewhere it might rain.
According to the Scottish news outlet EdinburbghLive, the owner of a Tesla has been asked by the company to fork over the equivalent of more than $20,000 for repairs to a battery that was reportedly damaged by rain while it was parked on a street in the Scottish capital last week.
Sound like it might be a problem? The owner sure thought so.
According to the report, the vehicle belongs to Johnny Bacigalupo and Rob Hussey, a gay couple living in the Edinburgh suburbs. On Oct. 7, they drove into the city for dinner without any problem, but they found the car wouldn’t start afterward.
They waited for hours for Tesla roadside assistance, EdinburghLive reported, which only resulted in the vehicle being hauled away.
But that was only the beginning of the trouble.
“After complaints from me, we received a call at 5:30 p.m. on the Wednesday, saying the battery was damaged due to water ingress and it was unfortunately not covered by the battery’s 8-year warranty, and so the repair would be around £17,500 [$21,351],” Bacigalupo said, according to the report.
“Did I wish to proceed? I was flabbergasted and couldn’t really find my words.”
The report, unfortunately, did not specify the make or model year of the Tesla in question, but a $20,000 car repair bill would leave just about anybody “flabbergasted.”
And the company’s excuse — that the electric vehicle was disabled by a rainstorm — would have left a resident of the traditionally wet Britain even more so.
“After finally getting to speak to a manager, he told me it had water in it due to the fact the weather in Scotland has been so bad,” Bacigalupo told EdinburghLive.
“That was the issue. They said it’s not necessarily my fault, but it’s not Tesla’s to pay under warranty.
He reminded me there was a yellow weather warning in some parts of Scotland.” (A “yellow” weather warning issued by the Met, the United Kingdom’s national weather service, covers a range of potential rainfall, from moderate to severe in localized areas.)
Bacigalupo told EdinburghLive the weather didn’t seem that bad — “I honestly can’t remember any huge puddles or anything like that” — but even if it was extremely foul, it’s unlikely the owner of a vehicle with an internal combustion engine would have the same problem.
If heavy rains disabled car engines on a regular basis, states like Florida, where daily torrential downpours arrive like clockwork during the rainy season, would be a combination of parking lots and salvage yards. (And that doesn’t even count the occasional hurricane.)
EdinburghLive said it had contacted Tesla about Bacigalupo’s story, without apparent response.
But the outlet also said it had reviewed “correspondence” that confirms the monetary figure Bacigalupo cited for the repair.
Obviously, one incident doesn’t damn an entire company, much less an industry as big and growing as electric vehicle manufacturing.
But the story has to give pause to even enthusiastic adopters of the technology.
EVs in their current incarnation are in their infancy compared to the century-and-a-quarter life of the internal combustion engine for vehicles. And even if the technology ultimately wins out (not a guaranteed proposition by any means) there are going to be growing pains.
The problem is that the progressives on a global scale — the Democratic Party in the U.S. — are intent on pushing the technology on all motorists by arbitrary dates concocted in Washington and other capitals, rather than letting the free market do its job.
So governments like President Joe Biden’s administration go out of their way to incentivize EV production and sales even if it damages the traditional auto industry. They insist that drivers make the switch even though the infrastructure isn’t in place in any consistent way.
They appear to be deliberately blinded to the increasingly well-documented problems EVs bring with them that simply aren’t a factor for traditional cars, or they do their best to paper them over or cover them up.
And it’s all to worship at the altar of the god of “climate change.”
But eventually, as Bacigalupo found out, the bill is going to arrive — and someone is going to have to pay it.
“I honestly can’t believe that this has happened. When I first got the call I thought we would get bill for £500 or £1000 [$600 to $1.200],” he told EdinburghLive.
“When they said over 17 grand – it’s absolutely obscene. My heart missed a beat, honestly.”
“If I had known the customer service would be so bad I’m not sure I would have bothered buying the car. Do they know that we’re in Scotland? That weather was not abnormal for living here.”
“Not abnormal” is a relative term. Car owners who live in an area where it rains more than, say, Arizona, might want to keep Bacigalupo’s story in mind.
You never know when $20,000 might come in handy.
140
Confirmation from my post the other day re the fire which destroyed the Eastern Golf Course clubhouse casued by electric batteries in the golf carts
https://7news.com.au/news/vic/battery-caused-blaze-at-eastern-golf-club-where-greg-norman-designed-the-yering-course-c-12228878
120
Speaking of “sparky cars”, here is the McLaren version:
https://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2023/10/17/im-burning-for-you-2/
40
I’m thinking Blue Oyster Bar in Police Academy, gay bar.
“Burnin’ For You” should be EV theme song.
40
‘Burnin’ For You’ official video has a car fire in it. Also, ‘Burnin’ For You’ was from the BOC album ‘Fire Of Unknown Origin.’ I tried to find the original music video, but it has been taken down.
30
Maybe it was done for the EV crowd after all, that BOC, is that British Oxygen Corporation, makers of welding gases.
LOL
30
What about “Burn For You” co-written and sung by John Farnham. It might resound better than “Your (not) The Voice” which is now on slow reprise.
40
Here are some FDNY vids from e-bike fires. The first one is a press conference about the issue and the second is the vid of that fire. Two more vids of other fires.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpkBaQAJ5A0&t=680s&ab_channel=THEMAJESTIRIUM1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou1Tk9a-aCI&ab_channel=THEMAJESTIRIUM1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12kjIQQQ67s&ab_channel=THEMAJESTIRIUM1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12kjIQQQ67s&ab_channel=THEMAJESTIRIUM1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKF9NZhpH-o&ab_channel=THEMAJESTIRIUM1
60
Regardless if Luton was an EV fire or not, the fact remains that lithium batteries have a woeful record.
90
Jaguar EV burns to the ground while recharging at Gym
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9PxNFBA4sQ
100
Jeez, that burned well, do they make them of cardboard.
40
The EV nerds will be out in force valiantly defending their laptops on wheels.
80
I’m still trying to understand why most of the world has gone barking mad about their so called CRISIS or EMERGENCY or EXISTENTIAL THREAT and their lack of DATA to support their claims.
Here’s a rough estimate of our more recent Human history starting at 10,000 BC and a population of 1 to 4 million. Life exp 30 years.
By 1 AD a population of 150 to 300 million or 0.15 to 0.3 billion.
By 1800 and the IND REV a population of about 1 billion. Life exp still under 40 years.
By 1900 a population of 1.6 billion. Life exp 40 + years.
By 1950 a population of about 2.5 billion. Life exp 46 years.
By 2023 a population of 8 + billion. Life exp now 73 years.
Now I fully understand that most people here are bored by this data and I’ve been called a liar when I’ve tried to explain it, but I really couldn’t care less.
Again, we obviously live in the only time that Humans have truly flourished on Earth and anyone who calls this period a global EMERGENCY or a CRISIS or an EXISTENTIAL THREAT etc should have their heads examined.
Here’s a Wiki link that provides the best estimates for Human populations since 10,000 BC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimates_of_historical_world_population
141
It is no coincidence that life expectancy has increased rapidly during the fossil fuel (coal-petroleum) era.
120
Maybe we should call EV’s EB’s (electric bbq’s) or EWE’s ( electric white elephants) instead.
90
EV’s catching fire; One of these someone will get burned . .
70
In the above I meant to say ‘One of these days’ . .
50
It’s not only EVs which are causing problems. Lithium batteries are simply not safe.
https://notrickszone.com/2023/10/17/home-electric-battery-storage-unit-in-central-germany-explodes-causing-extensive-damage/
20
Nothing to see here folks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk0MWDsueMY
10
Oh dear…
https://notrickszone.com/2023/10/17/home-electric-battery-storage-unit-in-central-germany-explodes-causing-extensive-damage/
“Today German site Blackout News here reports how one home in central Germany had an entire exterior wall blown out as a storage battery exploded last Friday”
40
Hybrid Land-Rover review:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyPWf2YicS8
00
But WAIT! There’s MORE!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk0MWDsueMY
00
Well after all that an’ a’ that, ( I was in Burns’s Country last week ) will we be needing 80 million kilometres of new power lines in the world? Materials & Energy to make, excepted.
30
Battery fires in torpedos have been a known and feared risk in submarines for decades, and this is the most likely cause of the loss in 1968 of USS Scorpion.
10
I googled “Battery fires in torpedos”. No hits.
00
AFAIK, there’s never been a advisory to park your gasoline or diesel car 50 feet from any flammable structure, as there has been for EVs.
10
The fire clearly started a diesel hybrid, but how did the fire spread downwards?
I decided to check the carrpark construction methodology.
Yes, a full lithium EV has the potential to compromise a standard Ferro-concrete carpark deck. But the smaller battery in a hybrid diesel?! But it did …
Could it have been a post-tentioned slab and the fire was over a tendon?
The answer is clearly no. The construction was “Metaldeck”, a system that uses cast-in-place galvanized corrugated formwork, that serves as both formwork and subsequent steel reinforcement for concrete decks.
Highly susceptible to structural failure in the event of intense heat and load on the upper side of the concrete deck.
That’s almost certainly how a smaller hybrid battery fire got down to level #2. (But be assured, standard MLPS with conventional Ferro-concrete construction with tension field aligned rio are also at risk from full battery EV’s).
(Hons 1C, from a Sydney UNI (not “gender studies”), just in case some Nude Green Eel celebrant thought lip flapping was wise).
50
This is just more proof Big Brother is watching us. Here’s what Orewelians 1984 really means in 2023 today’s societies. I am absolutely appalled that anyone should be treated in this manner.
*Oceania’s leader is “Big Brother” who is able to constantly watch the citizens of the Party by means of a two-way telescreen that cannot be shut off.
*There are also hidden microphones everywhere to monitor people’s activities.
https://slideplayer.com/slide/12936714/
00
[…] EV’s Luton fire just killed the EV market […]
00
The VERY last thing I would buy as a replacement to my ageing Vauxhall Astra is a bloody car powered by an ‘Effing Battery.
Not because of the real possibility of fite, but instead because I have never ever given any credence whatsoever to the Global Warming crap, the Climate Crisis garbage, or any mix of those two lunacies.
Petrol was good enough for my Dad, diesel is good enough for me: and I defy anyone who tells me that ‘Its the Science, because it bloody well isn’t.
40
Good point.
10
Agree that EVs do nothing for CO2 levels…not that they matter anyway…, and the batteries are too expensive, heavy, and risky,…..BUT,..
…they can have some benefits…
They can help make urban and city areas a more healthy and cleaner place to be !( especially if heavy vehicles and vans etc were EVs)..
They can help reduce oil consumption, and hence extend the availability of oil for those applications we have no substitutes for it..flight, agroculture, plastics, medicines, chemicals, industrial uses, etc.
They can reduce our dependence on imported fuels,…using our own home made electricity.
..And, they can make driving a better experience with a quiet , smooth, gearless, high power , drive line and non friction braking systems.
Diesel is fine ( i have 3), but technology continuously improves. When a practical (safe) EV is available ina configuration that suits my purpose and budget, ..i could be tempted !
01
Meanwhile, at least a dozen startups are planning to manufacturing electric Aircraft. All with batteries, of couse.
It will be interesting to see how the US FAA certification of these aircraft proceeds, or doesn’t proceed.
10