This is so obscenely power-crazed I thought this might be satire. According to the Express a Polish TV channel received a leaked copy of a “bombshell proposal” that was to be put to some EU countries today. It’s a big-Government wet dream.
European SUPERSTATE to be unveiled: EU nations ‘to be morphed into one’ post-Brexit
The foreign ministers of France and Germany are due to reveal a blueprint to effectively do away with individual member states in what is being described as an “ultimatum”.
Under the radical proposals EU countries will lose the right to have their own army, criminal law, taxation system or central bank, with all those powers being transferred to Brussels.
Polish news channel TVP Info…. reports that the bombshell proposal will be presented to a meeting of the Visegrad group of countries – made up of Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary and Slovakia – by German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier later today.
Like tossing powdered uranium onto the Euroskeptic fire. Hands-up who wants to be morphed?
Here’s a Pew Survey of views in European countries before BREXIT. Looks like a GREXIT and FREXIT are calling.
People in Poland liked the EU more than most countries did — well, they did last week.
…
How popular would an EU super-morphed state be?
Before BREXIT, and before the “superstate” suggestion even Europeans want democracy back. The orange bars below show that a lot of people want the EU to give up power back to the National government. The green bars represent the folks who want the EU to grow.
…
The institution’s strongest backers are the Poles (72%) and the Hungarians (61%). In many other nations, support is tepid. Just 27% of the Greeks, 38% of the French and 47% of the Spanish have a favorable opinion of the EU. Notably, 44% of the British view the EU favorably, including 53% of the Scottish.
So last week 44% of Scots said they like the EU. This week 62% voted to REMAIN with the EU. (And the other 38% of the Scots are now invisible to BBC and ABC cameras.)
Plans for an EU superstate to dissolve nations “into one”.
You have to be joking.
The best option is for the EU to be dismantled and current member nations to become independent once again.
The “dysfunctional EU” is a failed experiment and should be dismantled, especially now that the World’s 5th largest economy, the UK, has opted to leave.
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When I first read about this on Luboš Motl’s site – http://motls.blogspot.com.au/ I thought it was satirical.
” France, Germany demand the establishment of the Fourth Reich … Remaining 25 member states should be turned into protectorates. …
For Czechia, the proposal isn’t original at all. Our lands have lived exactly under these political and legal conditions between 1939 and 1945 when they were referred to as the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia.”
For Czechs, this is deja vu. There is a link to the leaked document on Luboš site.
220
I suspected that it was a beatup as it was described as “leaked” but found the original press release at Germany’s foreign office.
They’re offering the security of the Franco-German empire in Europe.
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Bernd
Your link doesn’t work or they have blocked it somehow.
10
Here’s the link.
It makes for interesting reading. “Our citizens expect that we firmly regain control on our external borders …” implies an admission they do not currently have control.
60
It would seem the globalists are trying via a back door….
The Borg Collective….but resistance is *not* futile…ask the Brexit mob…
The next question is, given we’ve had one murder already to try and swing the Brexit vote, whats next? Some false flag staged “threat” to bring all states back into the European Soviet for “safety”?
The terrorism thing is old hat now ( Paris, etc ) , I suspect the globalists will now go for either a finacial or biological “threat”.
Something at longer odds is a nuclear dirty bomb, but not beyond possibility…the globalists have access to a lot of resources….
I recall that Australia wasnt intersted in going with the “coalition of the willing” to Iraq, then …the Bali ( micro nuke ) bomb event…australia couldnt “sign up” fast enough…trauma based mind control at its finest. I recall my own relatives being near hysterical…Bali of course was a known australian leisure spot and known to be fairly safe. The bomb seemed to have been planeted under the road, not in a van. One army guy who was holidaying noted the lights went out before the shock wave, which implies an EMP.
50
MC, what the European Union is doing is not new. It’s been part of its constitution since day one.
Not being a student of the EU, I knew little about it. Other than Great Britain wanting to exploit some of the trading options way back in the sixtys…..till I read this a couple of weeks ago.Britain did well to initiate it’s departure now.
Here’s a little of what “Founding father of the EU, French economist and financier, Jean Monnet ” had to say after the war.
“The continent of Europe, from western Ireland to the Russian border, from Norway’s North Cape to Malta’s Valletta harbour, must be unified into one huge superstate. Politically, socially, economically, militarily and constitutionally.”
Have a read at the link, it was an absolute eye opener for me.
http://www.theautomaticearth.com/2016/06/the-european-union-government-by-deception/
00
Bugger, that should have read days ago not weeks!
00
A union of Europe dominated by Germany, the EU Super State to have its own armed forces and the member states to disarm, French leaders trying to share leadership in the EU Super State,and wide open borders for millions of single, young men from Jihadist nations.
Hmmmm, what could possibly go wrong? The rise of Germany? The rise of Eurostan? Chaos and civil war? Russian hegemony over eastern states of EU Super State? Competition and strife between the EU Super State and NATO?
190
They don’t expect to accomplish this overnight. It will be carefully planned and carried out, goose-step by goose-step.
00
There is a video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5LnC4VwHbg
20
And so obvious that they can’t see it. Or is it that the big bosses in Brussels won’t see it? Or maybe is it that they are so enamored of the UN that it doesn’t matter what they see.
Ain’t it ever so.
50
Exactly Roy. The EU and UN dovetail in an intentional and perfect synchrony. The EU adopted the UN 2030 Agenda
What does UN/EU 2030 mean – rough translation here. Reflect on the implementation of this Agenda in Australia and New Zealand, both UN apparatchik States, and wonder when, if ever the people of either country will push back as the Brits did?
Meanwhile one of the leading 2030 peddlers is peddling: ‘Obama calls for calm after Brexit vote’ … unsurprisingly likening the ‘Leave’ campaign to Trump.
Finally, anyone ever heard of the faceless kollection of EU bureaucrats listed below? Who voted for them? When?
90
So I wonder how the UN will cope when it tries to implement a Agenda 21 and people tell it to get lost?
I expect the Leftists brains will explode…..FYI this is precisely why th US 2nd Amendment exists….
40
Manfred,
I’ve known for a long time that life is a f….d-up mess. But I have never seen anything like the present tension and hostility of one group toward another that we have now.
The UN always speaks in such terms that they remind me of Gene Roddenberry, creator of Star Trek, with his eliminated all poverty and want kind of naivete, a kind of fantasy world that went over well on TV because everything on TV is a fantasy world. But reality dictates otherwise, doesn’t it? You cannot get to that fantasy world from the real world except by trying to force everyone into a mold they will not want to be forced into. It won’t happen unless there’s a world wide dictator and the UN clearly expects to be that dictator. The message from the UN headquarters in NY City is so clear it screams out, “Run from us like we were the plague because we are the plague.” And no one hears it. Fantasy is always easier to accept than reality because reality is hard and fantasy is not, at least it’s not hard until you’re suddenly actually forced to live it.
You can ask anyone who risked their life to get out of the old Soviet Union or East Germany what they think about all this and I’m betting they’ll say to fear it, stop it, defeat it, anything but go along with it. Because to go along with it will trap you like a bug caught in the grip of an insect eating plant, your spirit and very soul slowly dying with nothing you can do about it until everything in you that you held near and dear is gone.
20
Am I overstating this? I don’t think so. I’ve watched things steadily go in only one direction for my entire life, downhill toward being a serf, a prisoner in fact, in my own country. It’s not that bad yet and we still can fight it. But will we fight it?
10
Not to my credit, it took me too long to realize what was actually happening. But I expect the result would have been the same, simply because one person cannot fight the battle for everyone.
10
Roy Hogue;
Please stop! this “is”. It no longer operates forever; upon destructive linear ± thinking! This world no longer can operate on some addition/subtraction/make change for a buck!
Consider the guy that thinks orthogonal to your thinking! This allows the exponential, for consideration, no matter how much you hate it! Two dimensions allow a power of 2, a product not a summation! By the time you catch up to the “known” 37 dimensions, you must have 37 different (orthogonal) points of view. Each and every of these must remain mathematically consistent, within its own POV, else you simply have no “physical” whatsoever! You can have only fantasy, religion, or politics; from that particular POV, and often that is all that is there!
Many of the 37 will degenerate to fantasy eventually, but still remain part of the ‘real’ or ‘is’, whatever that may become ‘philosophically’!
All the best! -will-
00
Say what???
10
“Overstating it?” Here’s a similar perspective:
“To Pro-Choice and EU Elitists We are Merely Cattle”
https://stream.org/pro-choice-eu-elitists-merely-cattle/
00
That’s about the way it always goes. Such power soon corrupts even the best of altruistic public servants.
00
00
One thing, the EU will never be as popular in the future as it is today so, why not try?
65
The story just becomes weirder as it goes along. The Brits can be proud of themselves, if only just in the nick of time.
360
Very timely.
The 4th Reich arm in arm with the 6th Republic doesn’t bear thinking about.
20
I don’t believe that. Surely Steinmeier will not announce that. He is not mad. And he isn’t even dreaming of that.
The German Government under Mutti (Mommy) Angie Merkel will always aim to be carefully, balanced and open to everything, may it be meaningful or not.
41
“Surely Steinmeier will not announce that”
You reckon?
http://s.tvp.pl/repository/attachment/d/5/1/d51736df11c6ad23221e46543829f1df1467008961919.pdf
His name is on the document. Maybe it’s a spoof? Forgery?
The Polish government seem to be taking it seriously. If the Brits don’t get a move on, they might not be the first to leave 🙂
130
In the document they do not talk about a superstate. But the military thing (see the “A European Security Compact” section) is really new and unheard in the EU. That matter should be left to the NATO.
We have to be careful… I will send the link to our Bavarian Broadcast.
00
An IPCC enforcement service was implied and “consequences” explicit in the Copenshaggin’ Agreement.
00
If I was Polish, I would just say to the Germans – ‘No tanks’.
370
Ok but then they’d just Russian
40
shameful puns
00
I know it is perfectly in line with the direction that the EU has planned.
But is it true?
80
At first I thought it couldn’t be true, no-one could be that stupid. Then I realised that it was supposed to come from those who think that replacing a 2.2kW element with a 1.0kW one in an electric kettle would mean less electricity used to boil water, so now I think it could well be true.
101
Do the 1kW ones hold 1/2 the water?
What is an electric kettle? In the US, us rodents just nuke the cup of water, with teabag, for 69 seconds in the microwave!
11
The 1 kw kettle is no reality. Today they sell 3 kw kettles in German discounter supermarkets.
BTW, a themostatically adjustabla kettle may make sense. Very often you need no booling water / 100°C, but e.g. 70°C for green tea. And very often more water is boiled than needed.
10
The Regulation was held back until after the Brexit vote.
Yes, a thermostat might be useful but at extra cost, although I would use a bit higher temperature even for green tea.
00
Peter Schlumbohm, the inventor of the Chemex coffee maker, experimented with varying water temperatures and found, IIRR, that 180° to 200°F was optimum for maximum flavor with minimum bitter or bitter-forming compounds in the product. For kettles with no thermostat, set the boiling water off the flame to cool for about a minute.
If serving English guests, just mix water and coffee in a metal pot and bring to a boil for about fifteen minutes. I haven’t actually seen this done, but I’ve tasted English coffee a few decades ago, and I’m certain this was the method used.
00
I am not sure they use coffee.
00
28 Jun: Youtube: 6mins51secs: Belgium: Nigel Farage speaks to the European Parliament
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlN9o3g-yuA
Nigel Farage’s post-Brexit speech to the European Parliament – full transcript
Below is Nigel Farage’s full speech to the European Parliament on 28 June 2016 after Britain voted to leave the European Union
Isn’t it funny? When I came here 17 years ago and I said that I wanted to lead a campaign to get Britain to leave the European Union, you all laughed at me – well I have to say, you’re not laughing now, are you?…
The biggest problem you’ve got and the main reason the UK voted the way it did is because you have by stealth and deception, and without telling the truth to the rest of the peoples of Europe, you have imposed upon them a political union. When the people in 2005 in the Netherlands and France voted against that political union and rejected the constitution you simply ignored them and brought the Lisbon treaty in through the back door.
What happened last Thursday was a remarkable result – it was a seismic result. Not just for British politics, for European politics, but perhaps even for global politics too.
Because what the little people did, what the ordinary people did – what the people who’d been oppressed over the last few years who’d seen their living standards go down did – was they rejected the multinationals, they rejected the merchant banks, they rejected big politics and they said actually, we want our country back, we want our fishing waters back, we want our borders back.
We want to be an independent, self-governing, normal nation…
In doing so we now offer a beacon of hope to democrats across the rest of the European continent. I’ll make one prediction this morning: the United Kingdom will not be the last member state to leave the European Union.
The question is what do we do next? It is up to the British government to invoke article 50 and I don’t think we should spend too long in doing it. I totally agree that the British people have voted, we need to make sure that it happens.
What I’d like to see is a grownup and sensible attitude to how we negotiate a different relationship. I know that virtually none of you have never done a proper job in your lives, or worked in business, or worked in trade, or indeed ever created a job. But listen, just listen…ETC
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-brexit-speech-european-parliament-full-transcript-text-a7107036.html
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Great video, pat (6 minutes 51 seconds)
The reaction from the European Parliament is quite educational.
140
What he said at the assembly that most of them had never done a day’s meaningful work in their lives was true, and they didn’t like it. Not much difference than for our politicians really.
190
Jo,
The American “brainwashing” is so severe in Canada through propaganda and misinformation that it really does make your head spin.
The CBC is pushing how the UK so much is regretting their vote and should never have had the referendum and how Canada needs to follow their leaders as they know best to keeping us in this globalization that is so good for our economy. Our country would never have a decision like this as our leaders know best…
Crazy times!!!
160
And the same people would violently riot if anyone suggested we join the US in any union that required us to follow US laws. 2nd amendment anyone?
90
I’ve noticed this big-time propaganda push, too. NPR and other leftist outlets are all aping the narrative of millions of regretful LEAVE voters, and wistfully talk of some magical revote. They’re also pushing the non-story of a Scottish parliamentary block of Brexit, going so far as to hint that there will be a new Scottish independence vote to leave the UK and join the EU. All that from just listing to the whining and whinging of activists and politicians from the losing side of the vote. Just imagine the horror stories that will come from the leftist media if Trump gets elected.
40
This Brexit vote is almost as good as winning “Lotto”The sounds of “Leftoids”heads exploding,is almost too much to bare.LOL
70
off to the tennis, but want to post this section of a piece i posted on the “EU panic” thread yesterday, before the Polish leak re the “superstate”.
27 Jun: UK Daily Mail: John Stevens: It’s all your fault, Juncker! European politician slams Brussels chief, telling him he is the symbol of everything Britain voted against and must now QUIT
In a joint paper, French foreign minister Jean-Marc Ayrault and his German counterpart Frank-Walter Steinmeier will argue for measures including ***joint EU taxes…
They will also push for ***‘the convergence of our economies to achieve sustained growth’…
Mr Juncker yesterday suggested Ukip’s MEPs should give up their seats. He told the German newspaper Bild: ‘Members of the European Parliament are elected until the end of the parliamentary term.
‘They will retain their rights and obligations until the UK leaves the EU. However, I note that many British MEPs belonging to the UK Independence Party (Ukip) have used all their time in Parliament to work against the institution.
‘I can imagine that they will not stay any longer than they have to.’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3661277/Blame-Juncker-Brussels-chief-told-stands-Britain-voted-against-quit.html
plus one i forgot to post on the day of the referendum, because i was concentrating on the RESULTS!
23 Jun: UK Express: SIOBHAN MCFADYEN: REVEALED: The EU’s £1TRILLION plans kept secret until AFTER the referendum
Britain will only just be discovering its future in the European Union tomorrow when Brussels leaders set out their new military strategy, believed to include plans for a controversial EU army.
They will also present a raft of measures that cover everything from their plans to introduce EU border checks and the accession to the European Convention of Human Rights as soon as the UK has gone to the polls.
According to insiders, politicians from the 28 member states have been waiting for months as bureaucrats dragged their heels on settling their draft budget and tabling a number of key proposals.
The budget proposals, known as the multi-annual financial framework, were shelved at the last minute last month.
A source said: “Commission officials said there was ‘no link’ between the delay and the British referendum but parliamentarians see it as an effort to avoid a discussion of EU spending before the crucial vote…
However the committee will now gather at 4.30pm on Monday June 27 for an extraordinary meeting in Brussels just two working days after the UK has cast its vote…
On Friday EU foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini will present top-secret plans which would see new European military and operational structures, including a headquarters…
However three years ago David Cameron said he would resist such a plan.
He said: “It makes sense for nation states to co-operate over matters of defence to keep us safer.
“But it isn’t right for the European Union to have capabilities, armies, air forces and all the rest of it…
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/682541/REVEALED-EU-to-rubber-stamp-its-HUGE-1trillion-budget-NEXT-week-after-referendum-delay
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He really is one smart cookie, isn’t he? Did he miss the clue in the name?
160
against the
institution.intimidation.There, fixed, why can’t da mejia get it right!
10
The superstate was always the end goal.
220
I wonder if that makes the UN feel a bit nervous.
After all, they thought of it first . . .
130
Amazing survey. For the UK 48% to 44%. So 92% in total and perhaps 8% undecided?
Consider that normalized to 100% this is an amazing 52% BREXIT to 48% Remain!
That means France and Greece and even Spain really want out.
Even Germany is so close today with 48% against to 50%. Now what would it be with the UK, Spain, France and Greece gone? Germany would leave and we would be back to the Common Market.
The Common Market, relatively free travel and what is now wrong with individual currencies? After all so much is on a credit card anyway. The first president of the Czech republic Vaclev Klaus, an economist, joined on condition they retained their own currency the Koruna, like the UK. It has worked well for them. Hungary, Poland, Switzerland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark. The Germans can have their Deutschmark back and the French their Franc like Switzerland. Why not?
Each country has its specialities anyway and their own governments and what was done by edict can be done by negotiation without four additional parliaments and 50,000 additional people. It would also be much cheaper. Possibly Greece could transfer their debts into Drachma and devalue because they cannot repay the debts anyway and no one pays taxes.
There is so much good which can come from the idea that the common market was the aim, not a single government with a single army. This was multinational dictatorship masked as freedom and unification. Much like the UN. Like the UN, Climate Change is the rallying cry for dictators like Mugabe who did not turn up in Paris because he was worried about the future of the planet. We can only hope that the breakup of the monster actually frees the people of Europe and increases employment. The alternatives are just too scary.
170
As it has often been pointed out, “power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.” It is the fate of anything “democratic” that the people have to realize that there will always be power hungry people, and they naturally gravitate into government, where they can manipulate what power they have into what power they want. It is not about throwing every politician out of office after X numbers of years, as in term limits, that will protect the people from power hungry politicians. It is an educated citizenry – yes, I borrowed that from Thomas Jefferson – that will protect the people from power hungry politicians. And that is why, at least in the US, you can see the fast track downward spiral of “freedom” starting shortly after the creation of the Department of Education. When government controls what is taught, it can, and did, easily make sure that a truly “educated citizenry” can not exist. Does government control your education as well? Are your children taught what they need to know to be free, or are they taught the beauty and pleasure of practicing anal intercourse so as to avoid pregnancy while practicing your right to have sex? Realize, then, that what was taught to the “old people” that voted to leave is not part of the education of the young that voted to stay. Freedom is a free gift from God, what government calls freedom is giving you the right to pay for being its slave. The Common Market was doomed from the beginning because there will always be politicians that see the opportunity for power, and people that don’t want to exercise their duty to prevent government from morphing into a power structure that can’t be controlled.
80
Great comment and oh too true.
10
Germany wants to run a superstate, again????????????
190
Roll out the V2 rockets and Zeppelins (minus the Led).
80
And the krauts can go make their own helium too, yust like da Sun does!
00
Repost after I goofed and posted this in the previous article!
————
What is to become Airstrip One formerly “Britain”, of the supra state Oceania which includes the British Isles, the Western Hemisphere, Southern Africa and Australasia, has now separated from what; >
> will be the core of Eurasia extending from the Straits of Gibraltar to the Magadan in Eastern Siberia.
Eastasia has as its core territories all of those former nations of China, Korea, Japan and Indo China.
Then there are the classes;
(I) the upper-class Inner Party, the elite ruling minority, who make up 2% of the population.[ think EU Commission and EU Council plus UN secretariat. ]
(II) the middle-class Outer Party, who make up 13% of the population. [ The EU and UN’s army of ineffective, overpaid, over sexed and over there EU and UN Bureaucrats.
(III) the lower-class Proles (from proletariat), who make up 85% of the population and represent the uneducated working class.
All that the EU now needs if this report is correct is the equivalent of Big Brother and George Orwell and his 1984 will become one mankind’s great prophecies.
150
Precisely my thoughts as well.
About the only imprecision in Orwell’s vision was the year.
90
More accurate and more readable than Nostradamus.
30
1984 is already one of the world’s great prophecies.
00
I thought homogenising temperature data was bad enough, but homogenising nations?
I guess the idea might be to stop the fat cats from separating out.
As Sir Humphrey would say; That would be a very courageous decision, Prime Minister.
120
Averaging on a grand scale; an insightful comment Raven.
20
Julie Burchill writes at the Spectator about the UK cultural divide, and describes the two sides as Poncers (Remainers) and Non-Poncers (Leavers). Apparently Brits use the verb “ponce” in two senses:
1 ponce around
British informal. Behave in an affected or ineffectual way:
‘I ponced around in front of the mirror’
2 ponce something up
British informal. Make overly elaborate and unnecessary changes to something in an attempt to improve it:
‘They would not let the food alone, they had to ponce it up in some way or other.’
The article is hilarious: http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/brexit-divide-wasnt-young-old-ponces-non-ponces/
70
ponce Noun:
1. An effeminate man who lives off a prostitute’s earnings.
But what does ponce and circumstance mean?
Was it Circumstance 52% to 48%?
10
Maybe there is something to learn from history here. Remember the break up of the USSR?
The ruling elite, i.e. Gorbachev, managed to get himself into the top job in the USSR. He really thought he was unassailable – and he was. However, unusually for a Russian, he was no chess player. The individual countries, including Russia, all left the USSR and left the ruling elite in charge of nothing.
Could history be repeating itself?
Anyway, if 28 unelected bureaucrats did have their own army in an area bordering Putin’s Russia, what could possibly go wrong?
90
Apologies, that was so last week.
I meant 27 unelected bureaucrats!
90
27 unelected window-gazers = 54 hand up.
80
Bloggers and commenters here will probably be pleased to know that a small band of like-minded people have worked out over many years a plausible-to-me plan for how the UK can extricate itself from the EU with minimal short term pain, and potential long term gain.
Video (I suggest skipping past the overly long intro by Christopher Booker), short version, and 400-page pdf available here:
http://eureferendum.com/
(Nothing to do with me, I’m just spreading the good news). What is left of the UK govt appears to be following this plan … maybe.
80
Mikky, it is good that a detailed plan exists as a possible path forward. The bad thing is a parliament that is dominated by remainers. And Cameron has cleverly postponed the process by abdicating and leaving a vacuum while calling it “steadying the ship.”
100
It appears that the Brits were the first crack in the dam wall and it could implode if the people are given a free vote; it is really like a snowball which is turning into an avalanche. The Swiss have managed to retain their freedom for a long time now with their system of strong cantons, four languages and a limited federal government. But if one looks at Spain there are the industrious Basques and Catalans as well as the descendants of los reyes catolicos Isabella and Ferdinand who incidentally were successful in removing the Moors.
80
Judging by the current state of the western world their services could be made use of again.
On the other hand, it did give rise to the Spanish Inquisition (and nobody expects that!!) So there is a downside.
30
Actually the Swiss made a hole in the dam a few years ago by voting to restrict migration, the EU refused to “negotiate” with them, until after the Brexit vote …
http://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/swiss-told-to-vote-again-on-free-movement-except-this-time-the-stakes-are-higher/
40
The Poles may be in favour of the EU in general but I cannot believe they would support this superstate proposition. Their foreign minister, Witold Waszczykowski, stated
http://www.thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/258994,New-EU-superstate-plan%E2%80%99-by-France-Germany-report
Additionally, France and Germany have also stated
http://sputniknews.com/europe/20160628/1042075609/poland-france-germany-eu-superstate.html
I agree with the TVP (Polish equivalent to the ABC/BBC) assertion that the leaked document reads like an ultimatum.
The only good thing about a superstate would be that there would be a single financial policy across all member states making the Euro a legitimate currency. Of course it means the member states would cease to exist as nations and would end up like the states within the former Soviet Union.
50
What crisis?
Nothing yet has happened.
And besides, if every country separated out and the EU became a historical footnote; it’s still not a crisis.
People will do their best and live their lives, what crisis are they talking about?
30
Reich enough for you yet?
90
Poland read your own history!
70
Before the Second World War Great Britan was too far from the Poland. Poland in the EU can develop peacefully.
21
Historically that is very true, back then Poland was a successful industrial/economic giant in Europe, these days of modern communications we are all very close.
That said I note that Poland’s leaders are calling for the UK to take a second referendum. http://50wire.com/id/16234769141
40
With Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, etc.. in dire financial state, in dire social states, and with independent minded parties rapidly gaining power, the unelected elite have to do something. Funny that this story breaks in Poland — echos of history.
The unelected elites have been meeting every day since BREXIT I’m sure they must have asked the survey, think-tanks, etc, as to the public sentiment on the ground. Having got a fright from the response they didn’t expect, the controllers have panicked and put this mad plan out.
Well now we know that all the suspicions about the unelected elites designs for the future of Europe were correct, and very, very bad for the people of Europe as the kleptocracy tries to take over.
People like the second President of the Czech Republic, Václav Klaus, on his blog, has been warning about such moves for some years.
70
In spite of the divide that’s as wide as the Grand Canyon between the UK stay and leave camps, a divide that probably also exists in every other member state, I think most, at least the leaders and the wiser ones in general in the EU have more than one regret about ever getting into it. Isn’t it obvious?
And now this ??? May I predict that if they do this they’ll regret it even more. 🙁
Not many things are made better by sending local control off to some bureaucrat in a far away capitol. Have they learned nothing?
I don’t like belonging to the United States at this point, California has enough problems without DC making them worse. I can’t imagine any sane citizen of the EU thinking any differently. And if they want one nation, why not simply turn it all over the the UN? They’re about 7/10 of the way there already.
30
Of course, the question remains to be answered about how serious this proposal is. It might be a knee jerk or even a scare tactic.
30
Roy,
” It might be a knee jerk or even a scare tactic.” If that is so it is a gamble with very high stakes for all…
Yes an explosion can extinguish a rapidly growing conflagration but it must be balanced against how much damage is caused by such a move.
30
And how well do I know it, Tom? I’ll not count the ways. But the Brexit did send stocks tumbling. However, I still think it’s a good time to buy. Things will settle down and the markets will come back. Not even in the EU have they totally forgotten the concept of wealth creation, that thing you do by producing goods and services that others want and will buy voluntarily. And that’s the bricks and mortar of which an economy and a stock market are both made.
40
It could more likely be one of those “trial balloons” the “progressives” are so inclined to raise. They use them to test the degree of apathy of public opinion. If there is enough apathy, they implement it as a predetermined policy. If there is not enough apathy, they back away and wait for another day when the public is more asleep to do the same and more.
Sadly, the “progressives'” opposition thinks in terms of election cycles while the “progressives” think in terms of centuries to achieve their goals. So far the progressives are winning the war of ideas. Why?
The opposition is pragmatic and goes with “what works” without really thinking about “what works” really means. They do what feels right in the short term, again without really thinking about it. Reactive rather and proactive. Always behind the curve. Why?
The opposition is hopelessly lost when it comes to principles of rational thought and action. They rely on tradition and habitual bromides to guide them. Again without really thinking about it. In effect, they have no ideas. At least none with a defensible foundation.
It is pointless to try to put better people in office until there are better ideas in the people. No matter how “good” the people, without the good ideas they won’t be good for much of anything except more of the same. It’s the more of the same that is killing us.
40
Lionell,
If it is a trial balloon, then you bring some hotdogs and buns, chips, etc., I’ll bring the condiments the charcoal some beer and a big pin and let’s see if we can’t prick that balloon right where it will do the most damage — or is it the most good? Should be quite a party. 😉
Let’s not even be bothered with the fact that it’s someone else’s balloon. They’ve been trying to tell us what to do for a long time and turnabout is fair play. It might manage to save both Europe and us from a lot more trouble down the road.
If dreams could come true…
40
The balloon is filled with wet sand and is being floated based upon a presumption that We the People are too apathetic to do anything about it. That is the way the do nothing but seemingly entitled to everything elite have danced and pranced for centuries. Hence, the balloon is floating in the same way Wile Coyote would be suspended over the chasm and would fall only when he realized he was standing on air.
The Brits voting to leave the EU is a small puncture. The US Republicans voting Trump to run for president is another small puncture. Not enough but better than nothing. Hopefully it is enough to bring the balloon down. If we are alive enough to watch it fall, we should have that that cookout you suggest.
Until that joyous day, about all we can do is spread better ideas to as many people as possible.
70
Lionell, isn’t it more like a EU piñata of doom?
A dangling construction vomiting taxation and restrictions over the poor fools under its influence, their vacant minds enamored by the surface glitter on the enveloping stinking bladder of centralization and regulatory excess. 😕
50
There are many applicable metaphors. I especially like your “their vacant minds enamored by the surface glitter on the enveloping stinking bladder of centralization and regulatory excess.”
40
Yes, very poetic 🙂
20
And unfortunately, more than a little bit truthful. Yet I’m thinking it wasn’t necessary for so many to have vacant minds. We neglected to teach our children to think, to value freedom, to value individual initiative and drive to succeed. We probably even neglected to define success for them. And it’s not financial success alone that defines what success is. It’s satisfaction with who and what you are, where you’re going in life, a lot of things, including your value to others in your life that counts. And that seem to escape so many of our millennials and their ilk.
And it’s the realization that a successful life isn’t measure by whether you have problems or not. You’re going to have problems. Life and it’s value is measured by what you do when you have problems. That is the thing that counts.
00
There’s been an adjustment. They’re now about 97% of the way there.
50
Oops! Yes, my mistake. 97% it must be. 🙂
40
Yep….Its the ‘mini-me’New World Disorder!
Miss-run by unelected closet Marxists that couldn’t run a milk-bar!
Engineering great big new taxes for everybody (we the little people),except for themselves.
I says, round these f…ers up and give them what they truly deserve: life plus a 1000 years breaking rocks in a dessert midday sun ….The first day would be the only honest day’s work in their pathetic lives.
Time to stop turning the other cheek to these self proclaimed ruling ratbags and rid ourselves of this good for nothing rabble.
It’s time to hit the Flush Button on the European Unelectable AND their suspiciously quiet big brother the Unelected Nutters!
And now, Their end is near: http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2016/06/23/20160620_brexit1_1.jpg
51
Don’t count that chicken before it’s full grown and crowing loudly every morning.
[Duplicate deleted. All I can tell you about it is that computers are strange.] AZ
20
Are you writing of hens…”Aw this is awful, this is awful”!
Or of Roosters “See what I can do, see what I can do”!
Seems like the only difference is “roast” v.s. “omelet”! 🙂
00
Metaphorically, of a male chicken, you know, the ones that crow loudly every morning to tell everyone they forced the sun to come up by their great wisdom and strength. 🙂
As you surely know, “Their end is near:”, is not assured. I should have just said so and then you wouldn’t be haunting me about it. 😉
As you’re so fond of saying, all the best (and I mean that).
Roy
00
HA that, of a male chicken, “Rooster” you know, the ones that crow loudly every morning to tell everyone they forced the sun to come up by their great wisdom and strength. 🙂
Are you implying that the sun would still come up without such fierce crowing? Have you more physical evidence of that, than the complete BS of atmospheric CO2?
As far as I know, they only want the girlies to wake up ready to be jumped upon! So much for SCIENCE!!! 🙁
00
“Are you implying that the sun would still come up without such fierce crowing?”
I have no rosters and the sun still comes up in the morning right on schedule. That has been so both when I had roosters and when I didn’t have them. Hence, roosters have nothing at all to do with when or if the sun rises.
A more fundamental proof is that things are what they are and do what they do because of what they are. Once you understand what that means, you can determine the relationship between yourself, the earth, and the sun. After which you and can reliably predict when the sun will come up tomorrow morning to within a very small fraction of a second.
To counter this, you will have to prove a thing IS what it IS NOT and, because of that fact, it can do anything it wants to do without advanced notice. Thereby making it impossible to predict anything about anything because you cannot really know anything. Even what proof is.
But then, words have no reality based meaning for you. They only mean what you want them to mean at the moment you express them. So, from your POV, you can say anything and it will mean something entirely different moment by moment. Rather like the notion that an electron is anyplace and every place all at once and only the probability field of its location can be specified. Even that not very precisely.
00
It’s not what I think, it’s what the roosters think. “Hey, look what I did,” is the obvious message.
On the other hand, maybe they’re just bragging about their early morning visit to the henhouse. But one way or another, they’re bragging.
A stewpot is to best place to put them. And do it before they get old and tough.
00
If the UK is out, and the USA continues to avoid conflict, then NATO is toothless. Can you blame the EU for wanting to amalgamate their military? If Putin were ding military exercises near OUR borders, would we continue to cover our ears and eyes? The whole of Europe is ripe for the picking.
31
Not that I like the current U.S. disengagement from nearly everywhere in the world, except of course, from opening us up to tens or hundreds of thousands of refugees. But I could ask, why, after so many years while it was obvious that all of Europe had a self preservation interest in keeping up a common defense, is it that only the UK has any kind of a military at all? I don’t want to see Europe fall to Putin. But isn’t this a case of reaping what they’ve sowed for so many years? Maybe let’s put that better. Isn’t this a case of reaping the result of what they failed to sow.
60
The US is disengaging. Obama has been engaging with the world to reduce the power of capitalism worldwide. He is a bloody Kenyan. He doesn’t care about USA only in destroying it. Like Britain, you vote Trump now or pay the price later. The UN/ EU model will be implemented in the next 10 years if it doesn’t collapse in to anarchy.
Greenspan said today that the EU cannot survive even if they unit into one administration. Too many languages, too many cultures, too many vested interests
70
And greenspan, for all his problems (I don’t like him at all) is exactly right. The United States elected to stay individual highly autonomous states for exactly that basic reason, smaller entities can govern themselves getter than one huge conglomeration of everyone. The federal government was given only the powers it needs to provide for the defense of the country, provide a common currency, regulate interstate commerce and conduct our foreign affairs. The states, by constitution, have all the remaining powers to do very much as they please. Times changed and it became useful to have a common or almost common vehicle code across the country and deal with the civil rights issues that were a hangover (literally) from slavery. But it should have stopped there.
Instead, we ruined it. 🙁
30
“Instead, we ruined it. 🙁 ”
What you mean ‘we’ white man?
The character in most rural US, lives on in every 0.308″ reload within this US! None of us reloading, desire any conflict whatsoever! What remains is the serfs/farmers/peons carefully reminding Do not try it, do not even think of it! 🙂
10
With Brexit leading the rush towards the exit door, the Euro disintegrating and an invasion of unskilled economic migrants from the Arab world, I wouldn’t take any long term punts on the survival of the EU.
https://thepointman.wordpress.com/2016/06/24/independence-day/
Pointman
91
Pointman,
Your word skills must always reward you! You give hope and wisdom, to all, in your writing with always the ‘pearfect’ word between the other two of any triplet. Brad Keyes, does the same but with the intent of satire, also very powerful! I wish you both, most profound thank you, and all success, in where ever your paths may lead! -will-
10
We were told that the EU was a wise “marketing” scheme. Also, it is my opinion that the EU is simply the UN in sheep’s clothing. It now seems that they are going to attempt what neither Rome, nor Napoleon or Hitler could do.
I’m glad there is an ocean between them and me.
30
This is not a surprise. It has been the long term plan. 50 years the long term plan. That’s why all EU countries are being divided into regions with one regional representative sent to the EU Dumas in Brussels.
Power has already been taken from local councils throughout Europe each country doing it at their own pace so as not to alert the population. They are speeding up the process because of fears of other exits. They want to stop it happening . They are in panic mode. Beware socialists on the run.
120
Well put.
40
‘So last week 44% of Scots said they like the EU. This week 62% voted to REMAIN with the EU.’
Not quite the ‘overwhelming’ vote the Scottish remainers and their media allies pretend to have recorded.
70
Something does not ring true about the figures.
I seem to recall the Poles were raising two fingers to the EU on the CO2 regulations & championing coal in the face of stiff rebukes.
With Germany finally facing the facts about their Green Dream of electricity, why would the Poles not be blowing raspberries & wearing conceited smiles?
It is pretty obvious the the none too subtle hand of George is working hard in Britain.
His MoveOn must have a GetUp equivalent working overtime to spread as much discord as possible while the vandals & shorters giving the Football Hooligans a
demonstration of “how it is REALLY done”.
60
But thanks to the EU Polish people can move freely in Europe.
11
The Polish people did not need the EU to be able to travel in Europe. They required the fall of the Soviet empire to allow that…
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Poland.
40
Highlights of recent Polish history
¯
1970 West Germany legally recognizes Poland’s western frontier.
1978 Karol Wojtyla elected as Roman Catholic Pope John Paul II.
1979 John Paul II makes his first papal visit to Poland.
1980 Waves of strikes against price increases occur. NSZZ Solidarity Party is formed on August 31 at the Gdańsk Shipyard under the leadership of Lech Wałęsa.
1981 Polish government declares a state of war in order to suppress the Solidarity movement.
1983 Lech Wałęsa receives the Nobel Peace Prize.
1984 Father Jerzy Popiełuszko is murdered by Polish Secret Police.
1988 Lech Wałęsa sets up Civic Committee (KO).
1989 Civic Committee candidates win 99 of the Senate seats and all of their allotted seats in the contractual Sejm election.
1990 Lech Wałęsa is democratically elected as president of Poland.*
1991 Poland’s first fully free election produces a fragmented Sejm.*
1993 Wałęsa dissolves the existing Sejm after Suchoka government is defeated.
1994 Poland joins NATO partnership for peace.
1999 Poland becomes a full NATO member.
2004 Poland enters the European Union (EU).
* Note the heiress of the Johnson and Johnson fortune did much to keep these events rolling and arguably did more to free the people of Poland, and probably more than the ECC at the time.
From http://www.towntopics.com/wordpress/2013/04/17/johnson-johnson-heiress-art-collector-barbara-piasecka-johnson-remembered/
30
Oops …
“and probably more than the ECC at the time.”
should be
¯
and probably more than the EEC at the time.
10
The upper middle class Europeans appreciate the cheapness of Poles in the renovation business, driving costs down. They are also in Australia, where they start up very small business doing work the locals won’t touch.
Ren the UK referendum was about regaining control of borders, they don’t want the Eastern Block in their neighborhood.
Anyway, back on the post.
‘Germany’s foreign minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier and his French counterpart Jean-Marc Ayrault today presented a proposal for closer EU integration based on three key areas – internal and external security, the migrant crisis, and economic cooperation.
‘But the plans have been described as an ‘ultimatum’ in Poland, with claims it would mean countries transfer their armies, economic systems and border controls to the EU.’
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3662827/Has-Britain-avoided-European-superstate-France-Germany-draw-plans-morph-EU-countries-one-control-members-armies-economies.html#ixzz4CuU3eEyq
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
50
I guess those power-lords in Brussels have got to nail it down before it all falls apart for them. Their haste will be their demise. The truth is uncloaked now with this proposal. Salami tactics. Their demands seemed, at first, to be smallish and so reasonable and good for everybody, but they want more and more. Now it’s on the table. They actually want everything, people and freedom be damned.
The EU also wants their own army. That’s another panic bid before it all gets away from them. I don’t get the feeling their army is wanted for external threats or enemies. Do you? I suspect it’s to keep their own members in line.
Now this merge, this ‘take everything’… wow. This should speed up discontent within the remaining countries. They’ll soon be exiting all over the place.
Popcorn anyone?
50
There is technically an EU army already – the ‘EU battlegroup, but supposedly it has never been deployed because there was never any consensus
Then there is this proposal from the European Commission last December “…plans for a new external border and coastguard force that will be able to intervene even without the host country’s consent…” and would consist of “…a rapid reaction force of 1,500 guards and a “right to intervene” in European Union nations that are either overwhelmed by a migration influx or are deemed to be failing to secure their frontiers…”
30
EU..
We want free markets, no taxes when buying from each other.
Cant we just do that then? “We just want a free market” ?
But “Just a free market” would mean that for example food produced with very low saleries in Sicily and perhaps toxins would compete freely with our (Danish) food in our stores. So the food on the shelves in Denmark from Sicily would be much cheaper than Danish. But we would have no idea whats in it.
That is “Just a free market”.
Would you guys in Australia like extremely cheap food from Indonesia on your shelves without any idea or control with the production or whats in it? And this should be allowed to compete with the better food made by the farm next door in Australia?
Im just saying: Im pro EU, most Danes are, And its good EU is a block that can compete with China , USA and India.
Im Sad England left us, its really sad. They are neighbours, and i hope one day they will join us again and sit with the negotioation tables with us and the rest of Europe again.
And this day will come, it seems, because the youth of England is much more Pro EU than the elderly.
And Putin hates when EU is one large strong block. I pretty much love everything Putin hates…
BUT
EU is CLIMATE STUPID, no question about that.
K.R. Frank Lansner
[This comment was caught by the spam filter. Sorry] ED
10
Not wishing to be offensive to our German colleagues here, but National Socialism appears to be in the DNA.
70
So Jo, is WA ready to Wexit?
50
The answer for many is probably yes but the astute citizens realise that they still need Commonwealth grants.
20
The great Joh Bjelke-Petersen almost got serious about Queensland abdicating.
We’ve always wanted to cut a mote and fence around our borders 🙂
11
Learn some history, WA already voted for secession on a referendum vote on 8th April 1933 with a 68% majority.
The problem comes from the Australian constitution which reads
“Have agreed to unite in one indissoluble Federal Commonwealth under the Crown of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and under the Constitution hereby established”
The matter went to the UK house between 1933-1938 for clarification but they refused to make a decision on what indissoluble means.
Technically if it literally means can not be dissolved legally then WA has to go to war with the rest of Australia. The rest of Australia also has the legal right to send in the army to quell the uprising. Not something that anybody in the day was willing to do.
10
el gordo –
from your Daily Mail piece…Poland allegedly sees the plan as an ultimatum (threat), yet it then goes on:
– Meanwhile Poland would like to see Britain hold a second in-out referendum on its membership of the EU, the country’s ruling party leader said today.
Jaroslaw Kaczynski, the powerful leader of Poland’s conservative Law and Justice (PiS) party, said the bloc would have to ‘radically change’ in order for Britons to want to return.
The former Prime Minister said that the ‘idea for today… foresees efforts aimed at making Britain return’ which included a second referendum.
But, he cautioned, the ‘EU would have to radically change’ for this scenario to be feasible… –
worse still, alleged pro-Brexit Daily Mail then finishes by pushing the discredited (in so many ways) petition yet again, mentioning only the Vatican anomaly!
– A petition demanding a second referendum on the issue has now exceeded 3.7million signatures, although tens of thousands have revealed to have been falsely registers to the Vatican City, which has a population of just 840. –
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3662827/Has-Britain-avoided-European-superstate-France-Germany-draw-plans-morph-EU-countries-one-control-members-armies-economies.html#ixzz4CuU3eEyq
20
After looking at
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/28/hate-extremism-pro-eu-anti-democratic-london-protest/
some of the comments brought to mind a description I heard recently of the NT of old as
“The home of wanted men and unwanted women”
20
much to post on this thread today.
first, if the MSM doesn’t report it, it doesn’t exist…or it seems like SATIRE!
google news results for “european superstate” or “EU superstate” today are almost non-existent – Daily Mail, Express, Sun is the totality of western english-language MSM. otherwise, there’s mentions in presstv, sputnik & a few well-read alt websites.
nothing whatsoever on TV. i believe the MSM has NEVER been as MONOLITHIC as it is now.
29 Jun: UK Express: Joey Millar: EU BACKLASH: Brexit ‘TSUNAMI’ expected as 34 referendums set to rock union
THE EUROPEAN Union (EU) is about to be rocked by a “political tsunami” with right-wing parties across the continent calling for dozens of in-out referendums.
A study by the European Council on Foreign Relations (ECFR) revealed so-called extreme “insurgent parties” are calling for a total of 34 public votes – with matters ranging from their countries’ membership of the EU to refugee policy.
The ECFR report blamed Europe’s fear of Turkey joining the EU and the German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s “refugees welcome” policy as major reasons behind a rapid rise in support for both right-wing and far-left, anti-EU parties and their attempts to take back control of their countries.
Mark Leonard of ECFR said: “Many of these insurgent parties have views on foreign policy that are closer to President Putin than President Obama.
“They are overturning an elite foreign policy consensus based on Atlanticism and liberal democracy that has dominated for the last fifty years.”…
Mr Leonard concluded in the ECFR report: “We can’t dismiss them as fringe parties – they represent a revolution in European foreign policy. Their chosen weapon is using referenda to whip up popular support on their pet issues.
“Even where they don’t win power directly, they are so politically powerful that they are forcing mainstream parties to adopt their positions.”…
The growing discontent comes as the EU moves forward with plans to turn the bloc into a superstate…
This would clear the way for an EU Army, which Eurocrats have long support…
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/684131/brexit-eu-referendum-tsunami-france-italy-netherlands
have seen similar comments to the one below under other articles since the vote. is it true?
COMMENT: GreyEyes
Lord Stoddart (Labour Peer) has to say on it: “The preoccupation with Article 50 of the European Treaty is a red herring and requires the Government to go cap in hand to Brussels for permission to leave. We should seize the initiative and start the process of getting our country back now, not wait months for an interminable Conservative Party leadership contest, followed by several years while we await permission from Brussels to leave. The Government has the authority of the people to act and it should do so, not sit on its hands.”
***Best to repeal the 1972 EU act… and out is out.
—
European Communities Act 1972 (UK)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Communities_Act_1972_(UK)
30
Daily Express article posted quotes Mark Leonard ECFR:
European Council on Foreign Relations Profile: Mark Leonard
Mark Leonard is co-founder and director of the European Council on Foreign Relations, the first pan-European think tank.
He writes a syndicated column on global affairs for ***Reuters.com and is Chairman of the World Economic Forum’s Global Agenda Council on Geoeconomics…
Previously he worked as director of foreign policy at the Centre for European Reform and as director of the Foreign Policy Centre, a think tank he founded at the age of 24 under the patronage of former British Prime Minister Tony Blair. In the 1990s Mark worked for the think tank Demos where his Britain™ report was credited with launching Cool Britannia. Mark has spent time in Washington, D.C. as a Transatlantic Fellow at the German Marshall Fund of the United States, and in Beijing as a visiting scholar at the Chinese Academy for Social Sciences.
Honoured as a “Young Global Leader” of the World Economic Forum, he spends a lot of time helping governments, companies, and international organisations make sense of the big geo-political trends of the twenty-first century…
His essays have appeared in publications such as Foreign Affairs, The Financial Times, The New York Times, Le Monde, Süddeutsche Zeitung, El Pais, Gazeta Wyborcza, Foreign Policy, the New Statesman, The Daily Telegraph, The Economist, Time, and Newsweek…
http://www.ecfr.eu/profile/C18
About the European Council on Foreign Relations
ECFR is an award-winning international think-tank that aims to conduct cutting-edge independent research; provide a safe meeting space for policy-makers, activists and intellectuals to share ideas; offer a media platform to get Europeans talking about their role in the world. It was established in 2007 by a council of fifty founding members, chaired by Martti Ahtisaari, Joschka Fischer, and Mabel van Oranje, with initial funding from ***George Soros’s Open Society Foundations…ETC
Today, it has over 50 staff from more than 20 countries, and receives funding from a wide range of charitable foundations, national governments, companies and private individuals.
20
by CHANCE?, BBC also dragged out a European Council on Foreign Relations shill last nite.
AUDIO: 42secs: 28 Jun: BBC The Inquiry: Consequences of Brexit may ‘create a scare effect’ across Europe
Josef Janning (ECFR) says if Brexit’s painful for the UK, it may cool euroscepticism elsewhere.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03zsmgs
(paraphrasing Janning: over next few years, Brits will find out there are side effects to BREXIT…so there’ll be a “scare effect”… & when eurosceptics see the effects of BREXIT, they might not want to go down that route)
European Council on Foreign Relations Profile: Josef Janning
Head of ECFR Berlin Office and Senior Policy Fellow
Areas of Expertise: European integration, EU reform, European Foreign and Security Policy, EU enlargement and Neighbourhood Policy, Europe in the World, Global Governance, German Foreign and Security Policy, Transatlantic Relations, Europe/Asia…
Josef Janning joined the European Council on Foreign Relations in April 2014 as Senior Policy Fellow in the Berlin Office. 2013/2014 he was a Mercator Fellow at the German Council on Foreign Relations. Prior to that he served as Director of Studies at the European Policy Centre (EPC) in Brussels. Between 2001 and 2010 Josef has lead the international policy work as Senior Director of the Bertelsmann Foundation, a major private German foundation…
http://www.ecfr.eu/profile/C291
full program from above page:
AUDIO: 26mins14secs: 28 Jun: BBC The Inquiry: Can the EU Survive?
The UK has voted to leave the EU, sending shockwaves through Britain’s political class and its economy. Whatever the fate of Britain – and many fear years of damaging instability – Brexit is a serious blow to the European Union.
another short excerpt from The Inquiry from BBC page above:
AUDIO: 1min27secs: 28 Jun: BBC The Inquiry: “To be frank; do I want to be here?”
Aristotle Kallis, a Greek Historian in the UK, describes what Brexit means for him and the EU.
(paraphrasing Kallis) power can be attained by populists setting the agenda, making immigration and identity the main focus and old-style language looks powerless. ignoring the populist language, which has unlocked closets of fear and resentment, this untold fear and resentment, would be catastrophic. if this trust, which has disintegrated in Britain, across Europe, cannot be repaired, then neither the EU nor any mainstream anti-populist politics can have a future)
—
MSM are the masters of making it all about “immigration & identity” politics.
10
29 Jun: Financial Express: AFP: Richard Branson says cancels deal involving 3,000 jobs after Brexit vote
British entrepreneur Richard Branson today said his Virgin Group had pulled out of a deal involving 3,000 jobs after Britain voted to leave the EU.
And he urged the public to sign a petition calling for a second vote.
“We were about to do a very big deal and we cancelled that deal that would have involved 3,000 jobs and that’s happening all over the country,” Branson told a show on the independent ITV network.
“When Brexiteers told the public that people were exaggerating that there would be a financial meltdown I think that it’s been proven that they were not exaggerating.
“We’re heading towards disaster and therefore in business if you realise you made a bad decision you change it. And we’re not saying to overrule it, just let the same people who voted have another chance and that’s democratic,” he added.
Despite the warnings, European stocks rose sharply today, making their first gains since Britain’s shock vote to quit the EU, and the pound rebounded as investors returned to jittery markets…
http://www.financialexpress.com/article/industry/companies/richard-branson-says-cancels-deal-involving-3000-jobs-after-brexit-vote/300237/
20
28 Jun: CNBC: Jake Novak: Brexit sore losers and NeverTrumps have a lot in common
One of the more common phrases you hear on social media and in political debates today is “elections have consequences.”…
It would be better if elections taught lessons, especially to those who lose the elections. But that’s not what’s happening right now in Britain as the overwhelming response to the Brexit vote proves the losers aren’t learning any lessons; In fact they’re doubling down on the mistakes that led them to lose in the first place. Oh and by the way, the same kind of tone deaf clinging to losing strategies and beliefs is very evident in our presidential election right now.
Forget most of what you’ve read about what motivated the British “Leave” voters to vote the way they did. A definitive post-referendum poll confirms the truth that the #1 issue in the minds of the Leave voters was the right of Great Britain to make its own laws. All the supposed experts told us the only real motivation was fears over immigration, but it turns out concerns about British sovereignty out-polled immigration by a withering 53 percent to 34 percent. That’s right, a fundamental concern based in political theory and the enduring issue of liberty and political accountability is what tipped the scales for this historic vote result. The objective numbers are all there for everyone to see, if they want to see them.
Most of the British news media and the leaders of the “Remain” camp clearly don’t want to see them. The overwhelming response on their side has been to smear the Leave side as racists, xenophobes, selfish senior citizens, and don’t forget the top slur: “uneducated idiots.” This crisis level elitist and ageist hypocrisy is astounding. In fact, there isn’t even any shame on behalf of most of the British political, financial, and media establishment as these ugly responses are showing no signs of subsiding.
And don’t forget the most tragically clueless response of all: the push to have the entire referendum conducted again, you know, when all the “dumb” British voters finally figure out the consequences of their impertinent actions…
I sure hope this sounds familiar to American readers. Because the small but vocal number of Republican establishment figures still trying to block Donald Trump from the GOP presidential nomination are doubling down on the same bad strategy that fueled Trump’s unprecedented success in the primaries. Acting just like the “establishment elites” Trump’s supporters believe them to be, they’re pushing for some kind of undemocratic coup at the convention next month. Any objective observer can see this will only embolden and mobilize the Trump voters even more…
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/28/brexit-sore-losers-and-nevertrumps-have-a-lot-in-common-commentary.html
VIDEO: 1min21secs: 28 Jun: CNBC: Christine Wang: Trump may win, as supporters may be underrepresented in polls, UK’s Farage says
Nigel Farage, leader of the U.K. Independence Party, said he sees New York businessman Donald Trump winning the U.S. presidential election this November.
“I sense he may well will win it because he may well get people voting that haven’t voted for years,” Farage told CNBC’s “Power Lunch” on Tuesday…
Farage said, however, that Trump supporters may be underrepresented by pollsters in the same way that they failed to capture the scale of the leave campaign…
The UKIP leader said that these predictions fail to account for people responding to pollsters in a way that doesn’t accurately reflect their views or future behavior.
“There’s kind of this consensus that has made people feel slightly embarrassed, ashamed to be patriotic, to believe we should control immigration and so when pollsters ring them, they tend to shy away a little bit,” Farage said.
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/28/trump-may-win-as-supporters-may-be-underrepresented-in-polls-uks-farage-says.html
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comment #41 is in moderation.
28 Jun: Guardian: Robert Hunter: Parliament voted to hold the EU referendum – it can vote to ignore it
“Ok, people, that was not a bad run-through for the first rehearsal. Let’s take it again from the top. This time, try to get it right.”
A West End theatre? No, the EU referendum…
Young Britons are condemned to live with a decision that will affect them forever because some old people (my generation) don’t like the way things are going for them…
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/28/parliament-eu-referendum-vote-new-government
no bio anywhere at Guardian, but from Twitter mentions re Hunter/Guardian pieces, he is:
European Institute: Ambassador Robert Hunter
Ambassador Robert Hunter is Director of the Center for Transatlantic Security Studies at the Institute for National Strategic Studies at the National Defense University. He previously served as U.S. Ambassador to NATO under President Clinton and U.S. representative to the Western European Union. He was the principal architect of the “New NATO,” led the North Atlantic Council in implementing decisions of the 1994 and 1997 NATO Summits and obtained air-strike decisions that halted the Bosnian war…etc
http://www.europeaninstitute.org/index.php/ei-blog/105-hidefromsectionlistinglayout/board-bios/1100-robert-hunter
Wikipedia: European Institute
The Institute was founded in 1989 and is based in Washington, D.C…
The European Institute works closely with the European Commission, the European Council and the European Parliament, the US Administration and Congress, leading multinational corporations from both the US and Europe, national governments, and several multilateral organizations. It is granted Special Consultative Status with the UN Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC)…
Notable current and former members of the European Institute’s Board of Advisors and/or Board of Directors:
(includes)
Jacques Delors, twice President of the European Commission
Ambassador Robert E. Hunter, former U.S. Ambassador to NATO
***Peter Sutherland (past member), Chairman, Goldman Sachs International (1995–2015).
Robert Zoellick (past member), President of the World Bank
for those who know of Peter Sutherland (research him if u don’t), he’s been freaking out on twitter, & like Hunter & others, caring about the young! examples:
Twitter Peter Sutherland:
The virulently pro #Brexit press still seems unable to fairly reflect on the disaster they helped engineer & the remediable steps necessary…
The dreadful #Brexit campaign particularly in written media & by senior politicians has unleashed a terrible racist anti-immigrant upsurge…
What “project fear” said would happen has happened. Now we have hate speech proliferating also. So much for the Brexiteers denials…
Immigration was a key factor in the Brexit disaster and the responsibility is the misinformation put out by politicians & much of the media…
I bet another vote tomorrow would be heavily in favour of staying in…
The younger generation in UK has been sacrificed all because of distortion of facts & consequences. Somehow this result must be overturned…
https://twitter.com/pdsutherlandun?lang=en
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28 Jun: Daily Mail: Gerri Peev: Scotland CAN’T veto Brexit, admits Alex Salmond despite Sturgeon’s threat to deny ‘consent’ for referendum result
Alex Salmond admitted last night that the Scottish Parliament cannot block Brexit.
The former First Minister and veteran MP, said Westminster would be able to override any move by Holyrood to veto the UK leaving the European Union…
28 Jun: DailyRecordScotland: Ross McCafferty: Nicola Sturgeon denied meeting with top Brussels boss as she fights to retain Scotland’s EU status
THE First Minister was given backing at Holyrood today to take Scotland’s case to the home of the European Parliament, but has hit an early stumbling block.
NICOLA Sturgeon’s bid to fight for Scotland to retain European Union status was dealt an early blow this afternoon as European Council President Donald Tusk denied her request for a meeting…
But Tusk, who is the de facto figurehead of the European Union’s 28 leaders, has indicated that it would not be appropriate to meet Sturgeon given the current political situation in Britain…
The refusal of Tusk to engage will be a bitter blow to Sturgeon, as she sought bi-literal consensus to keep Scotland in the EU, even without an independence referendum.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/bring-indy-ref-2-ask-8277674#w7J2yzTJG32F3XUB.97
28 Jun: Daily Mail: Francesca Chambers: Now Obama tells Britain it should be like Norway: Latest Brexit lecture as he says vote to leave is only ‘a pause button on integration’
‘The average person is not going to notice a big change,’ said Obama – if the United Kingdom emulates Norway.
Norway is not in the EU, and yet it is one of America’s closest allies, the U.S. president told NPR as part of a long interview, a section of which was released today.
‘I think that the best way to think about this is, a pause button has been pressed on the project of full European integration,’ he said…
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how embarrassing – my capitalisations:
VIDEO: 1min18secs: 28 Jun: UK Independent: Lizzie Dearden: (Scottish NATIONAL) Party MEP receives standing ovation in European Parliament after passionate speech saying Scotland ‘voted to remain’
‘While I’m proudly Scottish, I’m also proudly European,’ Alyn Smith said
“I want my country to be INTERNATIONALIST, co-operative, ECOLOGICAL, fair, European, and the people of Scotland along with the people of Northern Ireland and the people of London and lots and lots of people in Wales and England also voted to remain within our family of nations.”…
“Please remember this: Scotland did not let you down. Please, I BEG you, do not let Scotland down now.”…
Hundreds of MEPs stood in a lengthy ovation at the close of Mr Smith’s speech, with applause delaying proceedings for several minutes.
Mr Farage and members Eurosceptic parties remained seated as the heated session continued, which saw the Ukip leader booed after telling fellow MEPs they had “never done a proper job in your lives”…
The SNP leader said it was also possible for the Scottish Parliament to refuse to ratify a Brexit, and has opened discussions with Brussels officials and the heads of EU states on the country’s future status…
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-scottish-mep-alyn-smith-standing-ovation-in-european-parliament-speech-scotland-a7107106.html
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see comment #38 & #39 re:
European Council on Foreign Relations
It was established in 2007 by a council of fifty founding members, chaired by Martti Ahtisaari, Joschka Fischer, and Mabel van Oranje, with initial funding from ***George Soros’s Open Society Foundations…ETC
well that’s where Soros was – in his own-funded ECFR when he made these outrageous statements:
29 Jun: UK Express: Nick Gutteridge: Brexit will BREAK UP the European Union and MUST be stopped, billionaire George Soros says
BILLIONAIRE financier George Soros is frantically trying to overturn the Brexit vote fearing it will cause the break up of the “doomed” European Union (EU).
The Hungarian hedge fund manager claimed millions of people who voted leave are now suffering “genuine buyer’s remorse” and had only backed Brexit as a form of protest vote.
His remarks are likely to spark outrage amongst the 17million Britons who voted to quit the Brussels club, and come amid growing concerns of an establishment stitch-up to override the will of the people…
***Appearing on a panel at the annual meeting of the influential European Council on Foreign Relations (ECFR), Mr Soros said Brexit voters only cast their ballots with the “conviction that Leave would not succeed”…
The investor, who has made billions betting on international markets, insisted Britain’s exit from the bloc is “not a fait accompli”, insisting an online petition – dogged by accusations of fraud – could change MPs’ minds.
He said: “Europe is genuinely doomed to fall apart unless we pull together…
Mr Soros had particularly scathing words for Hungarian prime minister Viktor Orban, a eurosceptic who has taken a hard line on border control and mass migration…
“Orban is the promoter of this illiberal democracy and the pursuit of national interests as opposed to the common interests.
“It’s a return to nationalism and it undermines, rejects the values with which Europe was originally conceived…
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/684417/Brexit-beak-up-European-Union-stopped-EU-referendum-George-Soros
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the most bizarre BREXIT piece yet:
28 Jun: Daily Mail: Allan Hall: Now Far-Right demands ‘Dexit’ poll for Deutschland… but referendums are banned because HITLER abused polls and claimed Dachau Jews supported him
Extremist parties want the chance to vote to leave the EU in Germany
But no national referendum has been held since Hitler manipulated results
Now only local referenda are held amid fears of (WHAT? DOESN’T SAY)
‘Next year the AfD (Alternative for Germany) will enter the German parliament and Dexit will be top on our agenda’, said Franz Wiese, European policy spokesman for the party and an MP in the regional parliament in Brandenburg near Berlin…
On average there are 200 local referendums each year on matters of policing, enviornment, sanitation, building projects and education.
But the experience of the Nazi manipulation of plebiscites made the postwar constitution writers shy away from them being used at the national level.
‘Germany is one of the few EU countries with no experience of national referendums,’ said Ralph Kampwirth of the Initiative & Referendum Institute Europe…
But referendum or not, the political elites in Germany are horrified at what happened in the UK – and equally horrified by a poll by the respected Emnid research group on Friday whic h showed 29 percent of Germans – one in three- wanting a Dexit vote to take place, if only to find out the ‘EU’s whereabouts.’
And while one-in-three maybe manageable, a full 67 percent of respondents called for ‘radical reforms’ of the organization…
The Pegida group, which has campaigned throughout Germany for the past year for immigration to end, is backing Dexit but its founder Lutz Bachmann has not formulated any strategy or said whether his group will campaign for a referendum on Dexit.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3663863/Now-Far-Right-demands-Dexit-poll-Deutschland-referendums-banned-HITLER-abused-polls-claimed-Jews-supported-Dachau.html
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28 Jun: UK Independent: Ashey Cowburn: Nigel Farage warns that Tories are ‘backsliding’ over immigration and could keep free movement of labour
‘The suggestion that a post-Brexit Britain would retain open borders even just for workers would be totally unacceptable and akin to Nick Clegg’s infamous tuition fees U-turn’
In an article for the Times, the Ukip leader, who described the referendum as “the greatest democratic exercise of my lifetime”, said he was concerned at some of the post-referendum analysis by leading Leave campaigners…
“It has made me nervous to hear Conservative MEP Daniel Hannan on Newsnight the other day talking of a post-Brexit Britain including the free movement of labour”…
It comes after Boris Johnson, the former London mayor, stressed in his Daily Telegraph column that “is part of Europe, and always will be”, envisaging “intense and intensifying European co-operation and partnership” even after Brexit…
The Ukip leader also told Channel 4 News: “I don’t care who the next Conservative leader is, as long as it’s someone who will hold faith with that referendum result. I think over the next week or two we will see the names coming forward and we will see precisely what they stand for.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-nigel-farage-immigration-tories-free-movement-of-labour-backsliding-a7107066.html
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Meanwhile, the secretive Trans Pacific Partnership rolls on
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lol.
28 Jun: Bloomberg: Josh Wingrove: Canada Lifts Mexico Visa Rule in Exchange for Beef Access
Amid fallout from the U.K.’s vote to leave the European Union and the protectionist, anti-immigration presidential campaign of Donald Trump, the Canadian and Mexican leaders stood united in advocating for open economies, open borders, and strengthened global ties. Both also pledged to work with whoever wins the U.S. election in November.
“In a world where hate speech, racism and discrimination still persist, Prime Minister Trudeau’s government stands out for his commitment to inclusion,” Pena Nieto said.
“Canada and Mexico are fully convinced that international trade and regional integration are the main powerhouses of shared economic growth and social well-being.”…
Mexico, which currently allows imports only of certain beef products, will “open its domestic market to all Canadian beef” beginning Oct. 1, Trudeau said…
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-28/canada-lifts-mexico-visa-requirement-in-return-for-beef-access
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… And ve shall rule ve world ! [hysterical laughing]
Where’s James Bond when you need him? Maybe in a mirror.
Cheers,
Speedy
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even more bizarre than the Hitler/referenda piece!
28 Jun: Foreign Policy Magazine: James Traub: It’s Time for the Elites to Rise Up Against the Ignorant Masses
The Brexit has laid bare the political schism of our time. It’s not about the left vs. the right; it’s about the sane vs. the mindlessly angry.
One of the most brazen features of the Brexit vote was the utter repudiation of the bankers and economists and Western heads of state who warned voters against the dangers of a split with the European Union…
Both the Conservative and the Labour parties in Britain are now in crisis. The British have had their day of reckoning; the American one looms. If Donald Trump loses, and loses badly (forgive me my reckless optimism, but I believe he will) the Republican Party may endure a historic split between its know-nothing base and its K Street/Chamber of Commerce leadership class…
Yes, it’s possible that all the political pieces will fly up into the air and settle down more or less where they were before, but the Brexit vote shows that shocking change isn’t very shocking anymore…
With prospects of flat growth in Europe and minimal income growth in the United States, voters are rebelling against their dismal long-term prospects. And globalization means culture as well as economics: ***Older people whose familiar world is vanishing beneath a welter of foreign tongues and multicultural celebrations are waving their fists at cosmopolitan elites…
The Brexit forces won because cynical leaders were prepared to cater to voters’ paranoia, lying to them about the dangers of immigration and the costs of membership in the EU. Some of those leaders have already begun to admit that they were lying. Donald Trump has, of course, set a new standard for disingenuousness and catering to voters’ fears, whether over immigration or foreign trade or anything else he can think of. The Republican Party, already rife with science-deniers and economic reality-deniers, has thrown itself into the embrace of a man who fabricates realities that ignorant people like to inhabit.
Did I say “ignorant”? Yes, I did. It is necessary to say that people are deluded and that the task of leadership is to un-delude them. Is that “elitist”? Maybe it is; maybe we have become so inclined to celebrate the authenticity of all personal conviction that it is now elitist to believe in reason, expertise, and the lessons of history. If so, the party of accepting reality must be prepared to take on the party of denying reality, and its enablers among those who know better. If that is the coming realignment, we should embrace it.
http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/06/28/its-time-for-the-elites-to-rise-up-against-ignorant-masses-trump-2016-brexit/?utm_content=buffer56771&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
his smug face in Wikipedia will go some way towards explaining the above:
Wikipedia: James Traub
James Traub, born in 1954, is a contributing writer for The New York Times Magazine, where he has worked since 1998. From 1994 to 1997, he was a staff writer for The New Yorker. He has also written for The New York Review of Books, The Atlantic Monthly, National Review and Foreign Affairs. He is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Traub
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Cutting
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There is sabre rattling now with hints in the news of a standing EU army to replace the armies of the individual states. The greatest enemy of the EU is the skeptical membership of the EU and that requires immediate attention.
The Germans are once again attempting to overthrow Europe and this time they have France on their side. A possible headline: “An order is issued herewith that all residents of the member states of the European Union and non-member states Norway, Switzerland and Croatia shall turn over possession of their firearms to state collection centers by week’s end. There shall be no exceptions. Failure to do so will cause the violators to know the full wrath of the Final Reich.”
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This has been the plan all along. It has never been a secret. I’m confused as to why this new “secret” plan is causing so much shock, amazement and awe. Just why do you think we all voted to get out? This film is worth watching.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTMxfAkxfQ0
If you think this “plan” is something new you clearly never new much about the EU in the first place.
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