JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


Handbooks


Advertising


Australian Speakers Agency



GoldNerds

The nerds have the numbers on precious metals investments on the ASX



The Skeptics Handbook

Think it has been debunked? See here.

The Skeptics Handbook II

Climate Money Paper



Archives

Nothing shows how pathetic solar and battery power are like the pitiful celebrations

Strap yourself in: Solar Power and batteries made a whole town 100% renewable (for 80 minutes).

It’s an Australian first!  Put out a press release. No seriously, they did:

Solar and battery microgrid takes WA town to 100% renewables in Australian first

Western Australia has again demonstrated its remote renewable energy generation chops, after successfully powering the Pilbara town of Onslow entirely on a combination of large and small-scale solar and battery storage for a total of 80 minutes.

Only 520,000 minutes short of a whole year.

“The milestone achievement was announced by WA energy minister Bill Johnston on Friday morning after being demonstrated by state government-owned regional utility Horizon Power, which established the solar and storage microgrid next to an existing gas plant.”

Onslow is a metropolis of 847 people sited in one of the sunniest zones in one of the sunniest countries in the world. With at least 3650 hours of sun a year, Onslow vies for a top ten position globally.

If solar power was going to make it anywhere, this would be it. But we all know what keeps the lights on in Onslow and it isn’t solar power.

The  renewable microgrid is made up of 700kW of customer generated solar, a 600kW solar array, and a 1MW (no MWh stated) Battery Energy Storage System.

Plus a gas plant…

Ironically, Onslow is right on the edge of the North West Shelf gas field, a vast store of fossil fuels. The town is 1,000 kilometers away from the nearest low cost network, and relies on expensive small generators, but the government still had to “incentivize” home owners to put solar power on their homes.

REFERENCES:

Bureau of Meteorology,

http://www.bom.gov.au/watl/sunshine/

 

 

 

9.5 out of 10 based on 116 ratings

348 comments to Nothing shows how pathetic solar and battery power are like the pitiful celebrations

  • #
    Raving

    Biggest renewable energy producer in Onslow. (87 sq km) https://www.salt.com.au/os.php

    41

    • #
      Ted1

      Mitsui, eh? Par for the course.

      How much money did state and federal governments pay in subsidies for this system for the benefit of multinationals?

      340

    • #
      Ronin

      One would think that an an area rich in sunshine, cheap available land and a ready supply of salt, solar brine ponds would be better bet than solar pv.
      The ponds are filled with brine which captures the suns heat which is then used to evaporate a compatible type of refrigerant which then spins a turbine to generate electricity. Same principal as a coal fired station only at lower temps and output.
      Birdsville used to have one which ran off 99deg artesian bore water.
      The best thing about solar ponds is that they keep generating after the sun sets, unlike pv.

      160

      • #

        Re: solar brine ponds

        That’s interesting, Ronin!

        Does it actually work? You won’t get anywhere near 99°C water temperature in a sunlit pond.

        Are there any working examples or research papers that you can point to?

        Also, of what use is the salt? It seems like anything salt water could do, fresh water could do better, and with fewer corrosion problems. Do you use brine just because if you’re near the ocean then saltwater is free and plentiful, and freshwater is dear and in short supply? Or is there some functional reason for using brine?

        60

        • #
          James

          OI remember reading about it in the 80s, probably in the non scientist magazine. I do not know of any successful application of such a system.

          20

        • #
          Richard Owen No.3

          Dave:
          The salt is dissolved in the lower layer of the pond and the higher density of that layer ‘stabilises’ it in position. It also (theoretically) lets that layer get hotter. Cutting circulation reduces evaporation (supposedly).
          Don’t know of any recent work, the CSIRO may have run an experimental one on a farm in the mallee region of Victoria, but the interest seemed to also be in harvesting brine shrimps from the top (slightly less salty) water layer.

          20

        • #
          navy bob

          from wikipedia:
          The largest operating solar pond for electricity generation was the Beit HaArava pond built in Israel and operated up until 1988. It had an area of 210,000 m² and gave an electrical output of 5 MW.[3]

          India was the first Asian country to have established a solar pond in Bhuj, in Gujarat. The project was sanctioned under the National Solar Pond Programme by the Ministry of Non-Conventional Energy Sources in 1987 and completed in 1993 after a sustained collaborative effort by TERI, the Gujarat Energy Development Agency, and the GDDC (Gujarat Dairy Development Corporation Ltd). The solar pond successfully demonstrated the expediency of the technology by supplying 80,000 litres of hot water daily to the plant. It is designed to supply about 22,000,000 kWh[citation needed] of Thermal Energy annually . The Energy and Resources Institute provided all technical inputs and took up the complete execution of research, development, and demonstration. TERI operated and maintained this facility until 1996 before handing it over to the GDDC. The solar pond functioned effortlessly till the year 2000 when severe financial losses crippled GDDC. Subsequently, the Bhuj earthquake left the Kutch Dairy non-functional.[4]

          The 0.8-acre (3,200 m2) solar pond powering 20% of Bruce Foods Corporation’s operations in El Paso, Texas is the second largest in the U.S. It is also the first ever salt-gradient solar pond in the U.S.[5]

          10

    • #
      John Watt

      The realistic approach to this use of renewables has to involve consumers in remote locations and a standby diesel generator. Objective is to make maximum use of solar energy and reduce electricity transmission losses. Depending on who is doing the sums (subsidies,borrowing rates etc.), this may result in an electricity c/kWh that is competitive with retailer rates. The unanswered question is the eco damage comparison …cleaner to burn coal or to dispose of panels and batteries?

      101

      • #
        Klem

        ” .. the government still had to “incentivize” home owners to put solar power on their homes.”

        Whenever the government has to pay you to buy something, you know it’s going to suck.

        180

    • #
      Ron Sterren

      So $3,500,000 for 80 minutes for 850 people or $51.47 per Minute at less than half load?

      So for 24 hours it would cost $74,116.80 per person for 24 hours?

      So for 12 months the cost will be $27,052,632.00 per person?

      So Aus population of 25,779,448 it will cost $697,401,919,136.00

      Or 499,213 times our GDP

      What a great idea

      70

    • #

      Raving,

      Good point, but the published area of 87 square kilometers in the website you link to is about 8 times too large.
      My estimated number using Google Maps is circa 10 sq km.

      YMMV

      00

  • #
    Ossqss

    So,,,, are they going to share the data to show what the load was on the grid during their test vs. normal demand? One wonders if there were instructions given to shut everything off during this test to maximize performance stats? Sure would be interesting to see a comparison. Just sayin>>

    590

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      Ah, you sceptic.
      My thought was that they’d sent everyone out fishing at midday…
      Cheers
      Dave B

      250

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        Up There you get your bag limit in 8 minutes on a good day, not 80.

        Then, back to the boat ramp and to the gas fired Barbie for a cook-up and a cold Emu or three, out of the ice-filled Esky. Then back to the salt mine for the arvo shift.

        90

    • #
      Chad

      Ossqss
      June 20, 2021 at 5:25 am · ……..one wonders if there were instructions given to shut everything off during this test to maximize performance stats?

      You must have missed this key point…

      The microgrid also features and intelligent Distributed Energy Resources Management System (DERMS) commissioned by Horizon in partnership with US-based PXiSE Energy Solutions to act as the brains of the power system.

      The state government said on Friday that the DERMS – deployed for the first time in a remote microgrid in Australia – had been “integral to the success of the trial,” using predictive analytics to maximise the amount of renewable energy in the microgrid while maintaining grid stability.

      IE:- they control how , when, and where the powere is used !

      320

    • #
      clarence.t

      I’ve been to Onslow, a while ago, I admit

      The only activity requiring electricity in the period after lunch, when solar is likely to be at its maximum, would be be the coffee shops and the pub

      300

    • #
      Pauly

      Ossqss, Onslow has no heavy industries, does not support any significant extraction industries, and does not have significant port infrastructure. So I’d say most of its electricity demand is domestic and small business driven.
      As with most remote communities in WA, running off diesel generators makes one frugal with use, as costs are expensive. That also means the town should have a good idea of historical energy costs. Of course, the article made no mention of how much this solution cost, how much WA taxpayers forked in by way of government subsidies and incentives, nor was there any indication of future electricity costs for the townsfolk. So we have no way to compare this “solution” with other potential alternatives.
      One factor not mentioned is the system’s performance during the Wet season. This is not so much about solar output, but rather, the microgrid’s ability to tolerate lightning strikes, of which there will be plenty every afternoon during the Wet season. The battery will be especially challenged, as lightning strikes have a tendency to rapidly raise “earth” voltage, resulting in sometimes bizarre reverse flows of DC current through equipment earth paths to the point of lowest voltage.
      But why should I bother asking about that? I’m sure qualified electrical engineers signed off on this microgrid design, after considering normal environmental threats for the region.

      320

      • #
        Chad

        Of course, the article made no mention of how much this solution cost,

        Its not difficult to guess..
        600 kW solar installed = $800,000
        1 MWh battery = $1.1m
        Add in design, a contingency, and “management/service “ fees etc……
        …so Call it a round $3-4million !

        But cheaper than the equivalent Denham “Hydrogen” project just along the coast .!

        160

      • #
        clarence.t

        “Onslow has no heavy industries”

        IIRC, salt is the main local industry.. two long jetties one at Onslow and one at Shark Bay.

        I’m guessing that all equipment would be run by gas or petroleum, certainly not solar. !

        120

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    Fossil fuels to the rescue …

    SA Company to attempt Electric Aircraft Record

    “Rogers will share the flying with Catherine Conway OAM and David Bradshaw, with support from a vehicle carrying recharging equipment and an avgas-powered chase plane.”

    http://www.australianflying.com.au/latest/sa-company-to-attempt-electric-aircraft-record

    CH7 even shows the fossil fuelled generators (two of them) towed by a fossil fuelled car!

    The plane needs to recharge every hour.

    Apparently it’s game changer.

    I’m preparing for a stable climate as it flies!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVAELMa7-DU

    220

    • #
      RicDre

      In no time at all they should be able to repeat the around-the-world flight made in 1986 by Dick Rutan and Jeana Yeager in the Rutan Model 76 Voyager, perhaps even before the next tipping point (in 2030, or was that 2050 or perhaps 2100?).

      170

    • #
      David Maddison

      I heard that the aircraft has to charge every 30 mins, not every hour.

      It doesn’t leave much reserve flying time in case of emergency, does it?

      190

      • #
        David Maddison

        In the aviation world, “fuel exhaustion” (running out of fuel, not “fuel starvation” due to a defect which is a separate issue) is an almost inexcusable reason for a crash or forced landing.

        I wonder if they’ll lower the standards to allow for a “battery ran flat” scenario to make it more acceptable than fuel exhaustion?

        220

      • #
        Pete of Charnlop

        Maybe they can use the prop to charge the batteries while descending rapidly towards mother earth. Or, maybe not…

        20

    • #
      js

      the aircraft will embark on a seven-day, 18-stop flight around South Australia on a route that will cover 620 nm

      what’s the point of this stupidity? Land or sea a bike or sail would be faster.

      180

      • #
        David Maddison

        That’s 34.4nm per hop.

        A basic gasoline powered Cessna 172 has a range of 696nm (801 miles, 1,289km) with 45 minute reserve, 55% power, at 12,000ft.

        The reserve time on the Cessna is greater than the endurance of the electric aircraft.

        200

        • #
          Dennis

          The Electric Aircraft is a 2-seat lightweight model and will be recharged from Diesel trucks with Diesel generators mounted on the rear tray.

          Fossil fuel rules!

          150

        • #
          Hanrahan

          My reading indicates that these two seat electric aircraft have a market with flying schools, little else.

          The first battery fire would dampen enthusiasm though. The HOT fire would destroy the aircraft in minutes.

          120

        • #
          James

          Have you ever achieved that performance? I find the POH numbers to be optimistic!

          I would take a Cessna any day over that electric thing!

          20

      • #
        Ronin

        ‘what’s the point of this stupidity? Land or sea a bike or sail would be faster.’
        Was that ‘sail’ or snail. ?

        100

      • #
        clarence.t

        Wow !! around 70km per stop…. very not useful. !

        Where does it land and take off ?

        90

  • #
    David Wojick

    Grid scale batteries often have 4 hours of peak discharge storage. In this case 1,000 kw discharge times 4 hours is 4,000 kWh. But if the 80 minutes was at midday no storage needed.

    150

  • #

    Here in Devon we are one of the sunniest places in the UK with some 1800 hours of sun per year.

    That is little enough in itself to justify the huge numbers of subsidised solar panels, but very little of that sun arrives in winter when power is most needed.

    Solar is nothing more than expensive top up, not the magical base power that some seem to believe

    470

    • #
      Zigmaster

      The design of renewables as as overall concept are that they are most likely to fail when weather is too hot or too cold when everyone puts on their heaters or air conditioners. Most of the rest of the time it doesn’t really matter. I would call that a serious design flaw almost as serious as the fact that it will make no difference to the global temperature anyway.

      10

  • #
    Yonniestone.

    I achieve 100% efficiency in my car when I turn off the motor when going down hill until it becomes flat and then the gravity of the situation takes over.

    390

    • #
      Earl

      Thank you for reaching out to us. We are a startup specializing in the area of Momentum Distance Gain Efficiency (MDGE) and your project is something that I am sure we can help you with. Did you know that a weight coefficient principal could help you achieve an improved distance traveled/relative incline descent result?
      If you would advise the seating capacity of your vehicle and the degree of incline of your hill we will be able to quantify the potential momentum gain that could be achieved by adding 1-5 additional “passengers”. Our human form figures come in a variety of colors, and you can choose from a full body (includes legs) or half body (torso, arms and head only). We affectionately refer to our product as Madge.

      So, put a Madge in your motor and let her drive you further down that hill.

      170

    • #
      Chris

      Yonnie , you must have a very old car, if I turned mine off I would have no steering and no brakes. I have in the past owned multiple “rolls canhardlys’ ( rolls done one side of the hill and can hardly get up the other side) I had no problems steering and barely touched the brakes going down!

      110

    • #
      Ronin

      Also known in the trucking industry as ‘Mexican Overdrive’.

      110

  • #
    Mike Smith

    LOL. What happened in minute #81?

    Someone plugged in a kettle to make a cup of tea?

    310

  • #
    TdeF

    It’s nice to know at least one town in Australia has been completely decarbonized and will be safe from Climate Change even during those terrible winters buried in snow when the sun barely lifts above the horizon at midday. Isn’t Chinese technology amazing?

    310

    • #
      StephenP

      Will the amount of electricity produced allow for recharging the battery and manufacturing the eventual need for replacement panels and battery, including transport and mining costs?

      As an aside, I see that wind and solar have not been very helpful over the past three days in rural Somerset.
      http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk
      How big a battery do we need to plan for in order to keep the lights on?

      40

  • #
    MrGrimNasty

    If each household in Onslow were meeting the true cost they would all be bankrupt instead of raking it in (presumably).

    There’s also appears to be a diesel plant – where does that fit in?

    All the Onslow case proves is that trying to make a grid work with a high level of renewables is crazy complicated and very very expensive.

    280

  • #
    NoFixedAddress

    Solar Panels are roof insulation/protectors manufactured by slaves and subsidised by tax slaves.

    240

  • #
    David Maddison

    Great news.

    From the original article:

    It was built by Horizon alongside a relatively new gas-fired modular power station that was designed to be able contract in size as the renewable energy contribution increased.

    Now just remove that evil CO2 producing gas plant if you are serious.

    Until then, nothing has been proven.

    Also, what is the true cost of the solar compared to gas? I bet the gas is cheaper and more reliable and doesn’t depreciate as rapidly as the solar panels and batteries.

    260

  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    In the normal course of a transition, wouldn’t you expect the smaller, isolated sites to go first? The implication of the article is that the whole of Australia should go to 100% renewables overnight, anything less will be counted as a failure. But like the refusal to mention CF for coal plants, the inability fo understand the damage such generation is causing, lets pretend that our current electrical network sprang into existence, fully formed, and always operates at 100%

    150

    • #
      David Maddison

      Peter, “transition(ing)” as you put it, to Ruinables is about as absurd as one of the other fantasies heavily promoted by the Left as when a man “transitions” to “become” a woman, and vice versa.

      (Just using the Leftist terminology here.)

      The common themes are:

      -Same terminology (pretending one thing can “transition” into something it’s not and never can be). E.g. a replacement for reliable and cheap fossil fuel power or a “change” of gender.

      -Same denial of science and nature.

      -Same severely damaging consequences for the individual and society.

      -Same lack of evidence for efficacy or need.

      381

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Don’t tell the tasmainians

        116

        • #
          clarence.t

          Peter doesn’t seem to know that Tasmania has ideal conditions for hydro.

          They haven’t “transitioned” at all. !

          Currently 94% hydro, 3% gas

          Nowhere else in Australia has the conditions to supply even the small population that Tasmania does.

          131

        • #
          R.B.

          Tasmania has been using hydro for electricity for 126 years. It has a power station 107 years old. It built its first fossil fuel power station for power stability 50 years ago.

          What makes Tassie a good example of transitioning?

          20

    • #
      Harves

      I have no problem with little science experiments like this. But why do we need to do these trials when apparently we can blow up coal fired power stations right now according to alarmists, activists and the South Australian government.

      Has anyone ever seen a single report in the leftist media, saying that solar power is currently only capable of providing power for a few minutes a day and only in really sunny places???

      250

      • #
        clarence.t

        At this time of year, temperature in Onslow are likely to be around 20-25C during the day.

        No air-con or heating required.. Very little electricity usage.

        Let’s see how the supply system copes during a summer warm period, when every house has its air-con running 🙂

        250

    • #
      yarpos

      In reality they havent “gone” anywhere. Just like King Island is expensive puffery, added complexity and still needs diesel generation.

      180

      • #
        Richard Owen No.3

        No, no, yarpos. They have bettered the record. If you remember the previous hype about South Australia running on solar for a whole hour last year**.

        So the previous ‘record’ of solar for 0.011% of the year has been RAISED to 0.015% of the year. Aren’t you impressed?

        **In actual practice the solar output (on a Sunday if I remember) was equal to demand, but the gas generators were running (for stability reasons) so the ABC carefully separated the electricity from solar and kept that for lucky Crow Eaters while that evil, climate destroying electricity was sent to Victoria.

        190

    • #
      RicDre

      The only transition that comes from installing more than about 30% wind and solar is a transition from a stable, reliable power grid to an unstable, unreliable power grid.

      160

    • #
      clarence.t

      “mention CF for coal plants, the inability to understand the damage such generation is causing”

      CF for coal fired can be up around the 90+%..

      solar.. maybe some for a few hours around midday when there are no clouds…
      rest of the day, basically nothing

      Coal fired power generation is supportive of the environment… adds CO2.

      Far less damaging than most renewables.

      190

    • #
      clarence.t

      “and always operates at 100%”

      but always 24/7… something wind and solar can never do.

      130

    • #
      RicDre

      “…the refusal to mention CF for coal plants…”

      The CF of the worst coal plants is better than the CF of the best Wind and Solar plants.

      70

    • #
      mobihci

      Peter, have you ever considered what 100% so called renewables would look like? I mean the way I see it is that you must believe that battery technology will advance along at super speed and things like batteries in cars are future baseload etc? I just dont get how anybody can think that solar and wind farms can ever be considered as a reliable source of power for residential, commercial and industrial requirements for more than a day.. ie completely useless. the gains from the ‘free power’ are eaten up by the costs of storage. batteries never need replacing? i just dont get the thinking.

      I think for better understanding it would be good to hear from you how you think it would work. remember that the current reliable system is being dismantled as we speak, not some future far off time.

      150

      • #
        Richard Owen No.3

        Perhaps Peter remembers comments (from here?) about renewables only being able to generate when conventional generation is supplying voltage, amperage AND phase angle. Of course Supa Dupa electronics (coming real soon) with solve that problem. Then people will get the bill for them, along with that for batteries, transmission lines, up-graded transformers, pumped storage, synchronous condensers and interstate connectors (a snip at $3 billion).

        120

    • #
      el gordo

      Gas is destined to be the ‘transition’ fuel to support renewables, this is government policy and I support it.

      The transition will be back to coal fired power stations within five years, when the AGW madness hits the fan.

      141

      • #

        Yes, weather is NOT climate. But these last couple of summers on the Gold Coast have been cooler than normal. And this winter is much cooler than normal so far.
        A Grand Solar Minimum underway? Initial sense is that the weather is responding as expected.

        Of course we have to wait a few years to see whether this is a blip or not. But one thing we will be waiting for decades for is for the BOM to actually report the cooling weather. I can just see it, snow falls in outer Sydney, record snow seasons and still the BOM will have its ridiculous charts showing “record heat” and “unprecedented temperatures”… We need to be asking Dr Johnson how he lies straight in bed over the antics of those at the BOM…

        40

        • #
          el gordo

          ‘A Grand Solar Minimum underway?’

          Up until 2050 our star will be cooler, but how does this translate on the ground? We need to illustrate the mechanisms involved, like the oceanic oscillations.

          10

    • #
      Dennis

      Peter, would you buy a car that should operate for you 2.1 days in every 7.0 days, but which days cannot often be predicted.

      Because that’s how wind turbine installations perform.

      130

    • #
      Tel

      The implication of the article is that the whole of Australia should go to 100% renewables overnight, anything less will be counted as a failure.

      No it does not say anything even a tiny bit like that.

      Please go back and read it properly.

      40

    • #
      Forrest Gardener

      Wow Peter Fiztroy. The multiplier is amazing. The few minutes you spent compiling this counter factual garbage was repaid by 20 people taking the time to respond.

      Perhaps the world should use you to augment unreliable energy sources.

      And yes I am aware of the irony of my own response. I just see Peter Fitzroy as a potential laboratory test bed on how to assist reason to deal with malicious artificial stupidity. Because this clown just keeps coming back to use up the spare time of people who can think rationally.

      191

  • #
    David Maddison

    Why don’t they use this scheme to generate electricity?

    https://youtu.be/SGemJAl82vI

    60

  • #
    Tim Spence

    It’s like watching Children play, you know they’re learning but absolutely not ready for the real world.

    170

  • #
    PeterS

    We all should welcome attempts by some localities to become 100% renewables. Of course to be true to their word they would have to disconnect permanently from the grid given it is predominantly fossil fuel based. Otherwise, they are deceives, and perhaps under certain laws are liable to be prosecuted for advertising false or misleading information.

    110

  • #
    Penguinite

    Guess we can assume this dubious record occurred in the height of summer? I’d like to know what the plated value of all this solar array is! Never mind the annual shortage what about the other 1360 minutes of the day and especially the 960 minutes between sunset to sunrise.

    50

  • #
    Pat L

    Magellan says the battery has 550 kWh energy capacity.

    40

  • #
    David Maddison

    How much taxpayer money was involved in this?

    Or if not directly taxpayer subsidised, how much was added onto the electricity bills of hardworking people (in the cities) to pay for this Little Green Fantasy?

    How much slave labour was involved in making the solar panels or digging up lithium for the batteries?

    Note also that if that is a remote mining town, the salaries are usually huge so the consumers may not notice or care about their high electricity bills (until the Chicomms stop buying the rocks and get them from their African colonies instead).

    100

  • #
    David Maddison

    These sort of projects should only be done by individual technology tinkerers, off-grid enthusiasts, peppers, experimenters and electronics enthusiasts and be for their own personal use.

    It can be an enjoyable hobby (albeit an expensive one) but it should not be imposed upon others.

    That’s the thing with socialism isn’t it? Forcibly share around the misery, Elites excepted.

    110

    • #
      David Maddison

      Preppers, not peppers.

      30

    • #
      tom0mason

      “That’s the thing with socialism isn’t it? Forcibly share around the misery, Elites excepted.”

      Socialism/Collectivism is a social belief structure based on consensus doctrine from the elite, and not very forgiving for those individuals who run against it.
      🂓
      As E.M. Smith says in his latest offering HERE
      “Given These Political Goals What “Facts” Can We Create?” 🙂

      50

      • #
        PeterS

        Yes socialism is a way to forcibly share around the misery. However, in our current system in the West it’s becoming worse than that.
        Yeonmi Park, a North Korean defector, compared her experience at Columbia University to life in the “hermit kingdom.” North Korean defector says ‘even North Korea was not this nuts’ after attending Ivy League school in the US.
        The most confusing part for Park is that Americans, unlike North Koreans, have access to the internet, books, and a plethora of information, yet they “choose to be brainwashed.” She concluded by determining that education is designed to prevent people from critical thinking. “The future of our country is as bleak as North Korea’s if we don’t rise up right now,” Park warned.

        30

  • #
    Asp

    The people of Victoria are about to get some first hand experience of the wonderful world of renewables, and in winter to make it more memorable.

    110

    • #
      Ronin

      Some folks up in the Dandenongs won’t get their power reconnected until about the 10th of July and the temps up there have been from 0c at night to 10c at midday.

      40

      • #
        Richard Owen No.3

        Ronin:
        Not to worry, the Defence Forces are distributing 200 generators (100 donated by Bunnings) despite the embarrassment to the State Labor government who wanted solar panels.

        50

  • #
    David Maddison

    From the Horizon website:

    It is called a:

    Distributed Energy Resource Management System (DERMS)

    https://www.horizonpower.com.au/our-community/projects/pilbara/onslow-distributed-energy-resource-der-project/

    In other words “resources” such as individual household batteries will be shared across the network to provide equal misery for all.

    From the website, one of the “features” is:

    Distributed batteries across the system.​

    50

  • #
    OldOzzie

    Gas giants under the climate pump

    Stuart Nicholls says being CEO of a gas producer is starting to spoil the party. The boss of Western Australia explorer Strike Energy, whose high-profile board includes government adviser Nev Power, said being associated with fossil fuels is now causing social rifts.

    “Yeah, I’ve had a couple of friends that started some green funds in Melbourne, who’ve walked out on drinks we’d been having together because they didn’t want to be seen with a gas CEO,” Nicholls said at the APPEA oil and gas conference this week. “It’s like ‘thanks very much’.”

    The response by Australian energy producers to climate concerns has been one of the main talking points at Appea for several years now. It was only two years ago that Shell’s Australian chief, Zoe Yujnovich, warned about professional activists “armed with megaphones and iPhones” who were ideologically opposed to fossil fuels and waging a virtual war with religious zealotry.

    This year, the activists were invited not only into the conference building but also on stage, sharing a platform with oil giants, including Shell, to thrash out the best path to net zero emissions.

    The Australian Conservation Foundation told the conference that producers could not justify opening up new oil and gas fields.

    Comments not kind

    and

    NSW budget: Berejiklian government to invest in electric vehicles, introduce road user charge

    The NSW government is set to announce a $490 million investment in electric vehicles as part of Tuesday’s state budget, and will join Victoria and South Australia in implementing a controversial new tax on drivers of battery-powered cars.

    The measure — in the form of tax cuts and incentives for electric vehicle buyers — includes a move to permanently phase out stamp duty on EVs, to instead be replaced with a per-kilometre road user charge.

    From September this year, the government will also waive stamp duty for eligible electric vehicles under $78,000 and give $3,000 rebates for the first 25,000 buyers of battery and hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicles.

    Comments definitely not kind to Green Gladys, Kean and the Photios Greens LINO Mob

    110

    • #
      Ian

      I think you and virtually every other commenter on this site is going to to experience an extended period in the wilderness as far as climate change and the burning of fossil fuels is concerned. The thrust to stop the use of fossil fuels is gathering momentum, a momentum that you prefer to deny exists. Very recent evidence is that It does

      https://www.lowyinstitute.org/publications/climatepoll-2021

      030

      • #

        For the life of me, I just can’t figure out why you people are looking forwards with such eagerness to a totally blacked out Australia.

        Are you mad?

        Tony.

        340

        • #
          Ian

          “Are you mad?”

          No TonyfromOz “we people” are not mad but are realists who can see what is happening around us. We are not like “you people” who steadfastly refuse to face reality.

          031

          • #

            Reality is the red line across the page in the image at this link.

            This is the Australian yearly average for all indicators on the image.

            Until you can find me the power to cover that red line, then your ‘reality’ is an Australia with no electrical power to run the Country.

            Virtually all of that white area IS coal fired power.

            That is the ….. ‘reality’ that keeps Australia in electrical power.

            Oh, and look how far renewables have come in 25 years. Impressive, eh!

            Tony.

            260

          • #
            clarence.t

            The problem is that most of the people that would bother answering a Lowy poll generally do not have even the remotest understanding of the electricity supply system and how it operates.

            They would be people like you, who have basically zero comprehension of supply intricacies and are polling purely on emotion-driven virtue-seeking.

            They the very opposite of “realists”, because they have no awareness of actual reality.

            120

          • #
            yarpos

            what on Earth do you imagine is happening around you?

            mankind had never had it so good

            what happening around you is what has always happened around you, except now you actually have awareness of far flung events due to the Internet. From all that you concoct scenarios to scare yourselves into low grade servitude.

            70

          • #
            TedM

            South Australia’s much vaunted wind power potential with a nameplate that almost equals that state’s power demands fell as low as 2% of nameplate yesterday. Just who is facing reality.

            50

          • #
            amortiser

            Some realists like you, Ian, have signed up to renewable energy by some of the electricity retailers. At the moment it is just virtue signalling but I suggest that it should have some reality to it and I’m sure you would agree to this suggestion so that you could experience the reality.

            The retailers have a list of all those signed up for renewables. They also know how much renewables are included in the supply of power at any particular time. It would not be a difficult exercise to shut down the power to renewable users when that source is exhausted.

            I would suggest that would concentrate the minds of those who advocate a position but currently don’t experience the consequences of their choice.

            10

            • #
              clarence.t

              People like Ian, and those who answer Lowy polls, generally aren’t in touch with any sort of reality.

              They don’t seem to realise just how much they are totally dependent on fossil fuels for every facet of their lives.

              If they did, they would never answer questions about renewables the way they do.

              If they had any grasp of reality, they would never espouse so-called “renewables” of wind and solar, anywhere, except in remote and/or very niche conditions.

              00

      • #
        RicDre

        “The thrust to stop the use of fossil fuels is gathering momentum…”

        A car falling off of a cliff also gathers momentum but that doesn’t mean that the outcome will be good.

        230

        • #
          Ian

          “A car falling off of a cliff also gathers momentum but that doesn’t mean that the outcome will be good.”

          You are quite right in that the car does gather momentum but the outcome is not known until the kinetic energy is converted to potential energy.

          Similarly the outcome of the move to renewables is not known but even so it install preferred by the majority of Australians

          028

          • #
            John R Smith

            Wow … so you are mad.
            In all seriousness, this is an anti-human movement.
            Human existence and activity is considered ‘unnatural’.
            ‘Science’ (forget those pesky engineers) is your new religion that will deliver if you just have faith.
            The ‘unfaithful’ stand in the way, and the only reason that the Garden has not yet been established on Earth.

            110

          • #
            John R Smith

            Ian, have to know.
            Which of the Pythons do you most closely resemble?
            TonyfromOZ is obviously Jon Cleese.
            You must be Eric Idle.
            If the Romans recognize your right to bear children, even though you don’t have a womb, it will be so.
            Right?
            As my POTUS Joe Biden said, “we believe in Truth, not facts.”

            80

          • #
            Gary Simpson

            If the outcome of the move to renewables is not known, then perhaps there is a big problem with spending trillions to achieve said outcome. Particularly when it is a solution to a non-problem.

            00

      • #
        Ossqss

        Have a peek at Australia. A rational person would completely understand how eliminating fossil fuels would work out. There is not even enough room for the text on the graph for wind and solar. Can’t cancel reality folks.

        Pick your country and see if it varies much. Just sayin,,,

        https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/data-browser/?country=AUSTRALI&fuel=Energy%20supply&indicator=TPESbySource

        120

      • #
        Strop

        The thrust to stop the use of fossil fuels is gathering momentum, a momentum that you prefer to deny exists.

        Very few deny it exists. Most likely this blog wouldn’t exist if there wasn’t any momentum toward the ceasing of fossil fuels.
        The problem is that many like you seem to deny that technology isn’t ready for proper implementation and we’ll all be in the wilderness if the momentum is as you hope it to be.

        160

        • #
          Ian

          “we’ll all be in the wilderness if the momentum is as you hope it to be.”

          Why not re-read what i wrote. I did not express a preference for any particular outcome. I stated that you and those who share your opinion deny the reality that the majority of Australians prefer not to burn fossil fuels, a majority that is increasing. a

          222

          • #
            clarence.t

            So what.. that will change rapidly once people wake up to the unreliability of so-called renewables.

            Forget the “climate change” brain-washing, and the ignorance associated with it……

            .. how about we ask people if they prefer reliable 24/7 electricity, or an unreliable intermittent supply, at the whim of weather conditions.

            170

          • #
            clarence.t

            according to…..

            https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/data-browser?country=AUSTRALI&fuel=Energy%20supply&indicator=TPESbySource

            From 2011 – 2019, coal and gas grew by 2.4Mtoe,

            While combined wind and solar grew by 2.3Mtoe.

            This decrease in fossil fuels isn’t happening, and if we want to retain reliable electricity supplies, it can’t happen.

            110

          • #
            Strop

            Why not re-read what i wrote. I did not express a preference for any particular outcome

            It wasn’t what you wrote in that particular comment that stated the preference. It was many of your other comments that show it. If that isn’t your preference then please state so without ambiguity. Otherwise just admit my comment was correct rather than pretending it wasn’t.

            90

          • #
            PeterPetrum

            “the majority of Australians prefer not to burn fossil fuels, a majority that is increasing”

            It really depends what question you ask them. If people are asked if they are prepared to limit their life style and pay substantially more to “save the planet” my guess is hardly any, apart from the left wing rich, would agree.

            30

          • #
            Chad

            Ian
            June 20, 2021 at 1:13 pm · ….. the reality that the majority of Australians prefer not to burn fossil fuels, ….. a

            Yes i know quite a few of those environmentalist leaning types…..
            But most seem to like to cosy up to their “slow combustion” wood burners as they ignor the elephant in the room !

            10

        • #
          yarpos

          Just doing what looks good rather than what works

          70

      • #
        clarence.t

        LOL

        currently

        NSW 80% Coal and gas

        Qld 85% Coal and gas

        Vic 86% coal and gas

        Very little wind… there is some solar, but there won’t be this evening.

        Anyone that thinks coal and gas are being “replaced” is delusional. !

        …. and a Lowy Institute poll.. just how gullible are you !!

        160

        • #
          Ian

          ” and a Lowy Institute poll.. just how gullible are you !!”

          A lot less gullible than those

          who stated Trump would win the election

          that Trump would be supported by the Supreme Court

          who believed Guiliani on Georgia: It’s a bank heist pulled off in the middle of the night…

          who believed Trumps two year Sting for foreign interference? Executive Order 13848 may trigger by Dec 18

          Who considered Trump the master persuader

          For the whole of the presidental election there were items from far right publications that were believed but eventually shown to be false

          123

          • #
            clarence.t

            Delusion and TDS are strong with the far-left, aren’t they ! 🙂

            Why try to change the subject 😉

            Wind in SA currently at 1% of demand !

            Will be funny when solar drops out later this afternoon 😉

            SA, the beacon of renewables in Australia…

            … running on close to 100% gas, plus coal powered imports. ! 🙂

            180

            • #
              yarpos

              they always do when they realise that in reality they have nothing, the “look squirrel!” tactic.

              drove past the Cherry Tree Hill wind factory in VIC today, talk about a stranded asset, all that investment sitting there doing SFA because weather. How innovative and far sighted, its genius really.

              70

            • #
              another ian

              “Wind in SA currently at 1% of demand !

              SA, the beacon of renewables in Australia…”

              Wouldn’t that be

              “SA, the black body of renewables in Australia…”?

              70

          • #
            clarence.t

            Oh look, wind in SA has just dropped to ZERO%.

            Not a good time to be an apostle for “renewables” , hey. 😉

            Tell you what, come back this evening, and we’ll see what percentage of the NEM grid is running on wind and solar.

            Should be a good laugh. 🙂

            150

          • #
            Doc

            Ian. Gullible? Russian collusion for 4years. A lie. Basis? A document paid for by Hilary which involved real Russian collusion. Hilary destroying her subpoenaed phones, but never charged and never charged for collusion. The illegal eavesdropping on all the Trumps. The rottenness in the DOJ, FBI, CIA goes unpunished. Schiff (I’ve got the evidence) escaped charges by choosing not to lie to Congress as he did outside it.

            A legal system that was used to force Flynn – a hero of the USA -to say he misled the FBI (when the agents themselves said there was nothing to find) under threat of the FBI attacking his son. Mueller – nothing to find. On and on your selective arguments go.

            Your Democrats love selective law enforcement on a large scale. The High Court’s reason for not accepting Trump’s accusations: It feared it might provoke widespread violent public reaction for which it couldn’t take the pressure of being accused of being responsible. It was not even matters of law that had it refusing to do its job. The FISA Court judges are similarly noticeable in failing to react to being misled/lied to by FBI.

            The system is rotten. It should be a matter of embarrassment to US citizens, not a matter for gloating. That same system is totally failing the nation again by refusal to act on its southern borders, refusal to ban criminals, sending undocumented illegals all around the country and, as such, blowing out cartel profits and supporting child predation. The scare campaign behind COVID-19 is switched off with not even testing the illegals but actually dispersing any infection around the USA. It takes crazies to support this stuff.

            The point is, and the pressure is building in the USA, law-abiding citizens will not react until their wealth has fallen far enough, jobs are gone and weekly income disappears, crime expands far enough and they become embarrassed by their failure to react to the wokeness being enforced at all levels and their loss of international standing and status. This is the future you are failing to see as you gloat. imo, you had better pray that the citizens can get by long enough until the elections next year so they can toss the Democrats by peaceful, democratic elective means. Otherwise, those extreme leftwing riots portend a future of uncontrolled violence for the USA. What is good enough for the goose… etc can only put troops on the streets because law enforcement is being destroyed.

            Of course, that’s only my bleak opinion of what I see.

            131

          • #
            Gary Simpson

            And this bloke was involved in ‘educating’ our young.

            10

      • #
        Harves

        Ian, why do you have such problems understanding basic maths like how much additional copper, lithium, cobalt etc needs to be mined globally if fossil fuels are eliminated. Are you all of a sudden pro-mining? But of course all mining operations will also run on solar and wind right? Or how about this Ian – how will your electric cars and solar panels get to Australia without fossil fuel-powered shipping? Gonna take some massive batteries or long extension leads? Or are we going to revert to sail power.
        Come on Ian, you haven’t really thought this through have you?

        150

        • #
          Ian

          “Come on Ian, you haven’t really thought this through have you?”

          Thought what through?

          Come on Harves where did I refer to any sort of the mining or that I was pro-mining or anti-mining? Where did I make any comment on or allusion to my personal preference?

          As for shipping, ever heard of nuclear submarines? Why not nuclear powered ships? And on that why no mention of uranium or plutonium or thorium in your list of metals?

          It is surprising and somewhat disillusioning to discover that a considerable number or readers seem incapable of understanding what was actually written but comment on things that were not

          To paraphrase what I wrote in terms that I hope are easily understood.

          1 Most Australians are against burning fossil fuels.

          2 The percentage of those aginst burning fossil fuels is steadily increasing.

          3 As a consequence of 2 above the percentage of Australians who are for the burning of fossil fuels is declining

          323

          • #
            clarence.t

            SA… currently 86% fossil fuel in the form of gas.

            You are fooling yourself, and no-one else, Ian !!

            The reality is that fossil fuels rule, and always will…

            …. regardless of what the brain-washed masses have been told to think.

            180

          • #
            Harves

            “1 Most Australians are against burning fossil fuels.
            2 The percentage of those aginst burning fossil fuels is steadily increasing.
            3 As a consequence of 2 above the percentage of Australians who are for the burning of fossil fuels is declining”

            The percentage of Australians against child slavery in lithium mines is pretty high except for those promoting the increase in battery usage without knowing where this metal is mined
            The percentage of Australians who’ll even pay a couple of dollars to offset emissions on a flight is around 10%
            The percentage of Australians prepared to go without electricity on windless nights is approximately zero.
            By the way, I’m pro nuclear, but haven’t seen anyone of note telling the truth, ie that the ONLY way to keep our standard of living without using fossil fuels is to go nuclear in a big way.

            130

            • #
              John R T

              ‘A person of note . .’ Stewart Brand favors nuclear.
              I have reservations about nuclear-powered merchant ships: e.g., where do they off- load?

              00

          • #
            Doc

            Same answer Ian.

            Just wait until they are effected in the hip pocket hard enough. We have the easy living of nearly 50years which has given us the idea that this is normality. No major wars.No external threats. Good wages. Affordable housing in the Australian tradition to the extent young people don’t find starting in old houses in cheap areas to start. They have it all in job security (unless they go against the wokeness)along with a huge debt even before they have family. Trying economic conditions have been avoided by excessive government expenditure where federal zero debt has been transformed to hundreds of billions and State debt has done the same. The piper will come calling one very inconvenient day and our government Treasurers won’t have anything left to play with. The Reserve Banks around the world are already getting twitchy about having to raise interest (official) rates from almost zero. That’s when reality hits on those with large debts to service!

            Our comfort for extreme responses to dumb activist ideas will only last until reality bites, by which time our energy system will have been destroyed by governments that know they have no reliable replacement system on the horizon. It’s a small strength of Morrison to see (and act) we have to have fossil fuel supporting even the limited level of renewables government ‘has’ to tolerate now. It’s the cost we pay for having politicians for whom just a vote matters when the voters are living in la la land. Politicians cannot bring themselves to think any further than the next election. Self preservation. The nation second! People better soon wake up to the slippery slide on which they live well.

            That was why Trump was exactly the man for the times. He saw beyond a vote and the damage already done by the green marxist wokeness affecting all western democracies.The USA is getting a primer education on just what the hubris behind the election that dumped him is going to cost it. From your entries it is clear Australians aren’t looking ahead either

            90

          • #
            Old Cocky

            Widespread adoption of nuclear power would certainly be a game changer. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem particularly politically acceptable.
            It will be interesting to see how the various Small Modular Reactors currently in progress fare.

            100

          • #
            tom0mason

            Ian says: “To paraphrase what I wrote in terms that I hope are easily understood.

            1 Most Australians are against burning fossil fuels.

            2 The percentage of those aginst burning fossil fuels is steadily increasing.

            3 As a consequence of 2 above the percentage of Australians who are for the burning of fossil fuels is declining”

            It matters not how many million people believe something impractical. Belief in ruinables (renewables) will not power even a small area like Onslow.

            Ian your sophistry appears boundless! You offer as much mystical magic as Uri Geller’s spoon bending tricks that have NO basis in the realities of the situation!

            40

      • #
        Chris

        Ian, for the life of me I cannot understand why people like yourself cannot see that this also means an absence of everything which is a part of your life , such as the food you eat, the clothes you wear and the medicines you take . All provided by fossil fuels.

        To illustrate: Australia feeds around 80 million people each year from geologically very old and poor soils which are nourished with fertiliser made from fossil fuels . Does this mean we will forgo the fertiliser and allow 55 million people to starve ? Are you aware that inn the very soil we stand on microbes are diligently producing CO2 from decomposing carbon far beyond what can measured by human activity .

        You need to think deeper about what you are advocating.

        160

        • #
          clarence.t

          Well said, Chris. 🙂

          The AGW troupe seem to be totally unaware of the massive benefits derived from atmospheric CO2.

          Basically everything they do, their whole existence, is dependent on it.

          90

        • #
          FarmerDoug2

          Haven’t time to read/study all the replies but I fear Ian is right. Interesting that he doesn’t say he likes it either. From the vibes though he might.
          Tony points out why the majority is wrong. Not an error by Ian. How does he personaly view this scam ?

          24

          • #
            Ian

            Jeez FarmerDoug2 You are the only, repeat the only, commenter who read and understood what I wrote. The rest were off on their own particular tangent commenting on things they thought I had said rather than what I actually did say. It speaks volumes for their ability to comprehend reality

            25

            • #
              clarence.t

              You made a comment based on a Lowy poll.

              A poll of ignorant clueless left-wing clots like you.

              Like you, those presented by the Lowy poll are incapable of comprehending reality because their grasp on reality is basically non-existent.

              Stick with your left-wing virtue-signalling, don’t concern yourself with what is real and possible.

              51

              • #
                Ian

                ” A poll of ignorant clueless left-wing clots like you.”

                I had thought that the policy of this site was commenters should avoid ad homs. It seems I was wrong. Or perhaps that policy is only selectively employed.

                How do you know the respondents to the poll were “ignorant clueless left-wing clots” ? From where did you get that information? Or is it merely a reflection of the views of ignorant clueless right-wing clots?

                16

              • #
                clarence.t

                Truth hurts you, does it?

                You get sucked-in by a far-left Lowy poll..

                … there is no other description for you.

                11

              • #
                Ian

                “You get sucked-in by a far-left Lowy poll..”

                Any facts to support your lame claim that it was a far left Lowy poll? Typical right wing attitude. No facts just opinions.

                Below is what Wikipedia says about the Lowy Institute. No doubt you’ll say it’s biased and Wikipedia is left wing so I’ve included what Wikipedia says about the Instituter of Public Affairs to forestall that

                This is what wikipedia says about the Lowy Institute
                While the institute has alternatively been described as “neoliberal”,[1] “centre-right” leaning[2] or “reactionary”,[3] officially, its research and analysis aim to be non-partisan, and its active program of conferences, seminars and other events are designed to inform and deepen the debate about international policy in Australia and to help shape the broader international discussion of these issues.[

                This is what Wikipedia says about the IPA
                The Institute of Public Affairs (IPA) is a conservative, non-profit free market public policy think tank[2][3][4] based in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. It advocates free market economic policies such as free markets, privatisation,[5] deregulation of state-owned enterprises, trade liberalisation, deregulation of workplaces, climate change denial,[6] abolition of the minimum wage,[7] and repeal of section 18C in the Racial Discrimination Act 1975.[8]

                Here’s some other polls that support the “far-left” Lowy poll.

                https://australiainstitute.org.au/post/climate-of-the-nation-climate-change-concern-hits-82/
                https://www.ipsos.com/en-au/the-ipsos-climate-change-report
                https://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/news-events/all-stories/if-80-australians-care-about-climate-action-why-dont-they-vote-it
                https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0248268

                The plos article also stated
                However, the importance given to emissions reductions is sharply divided along lines of political party preference. Holding pro-climate action attitudes consistently correlates with voting for progressive political parties and having higher levels of education.

                The IPA doesn’t’t poll on climate change for obvious reasons

                14

              • #
                clarence.t

                wow, what a yawn

                Australia Institute.. lol ! Now that’s just funny !

                10% or less vote green

                Basically no-one pays even the small “green energy” fee for air travel.

                Even the Greens and all their followers are totally dependent on fossil fuels.

                Even you are totally dependent on fossil fuels… you could not exist without them, so why are you so deliberately unaware of that fact ?

                Polls are easily rigged to give the answers the pollsters want.

                Reality if far different, and only those with blatant unawareness think that renewables can provide for more than a tiny fraction of Australia’s energy needs.

                Why do you choose to be one of the deliberately unaware?

                Did I mention that even in the much vaunted “green” South Australia, renewables were doing absolutely nothing yesterday evening.

                40

    • #
      Dennis

      Therefore, our elected representatives must immediately order EV replacements for all government supplied ministerial cars and electorate transport cars for other MP/MLAs as well as the Commonwealth Car Fleet.

      And of course all government department vehicles must now be EV.

      Of course the politicians will agree to this, they are determined to force their constituents into EV.

      50

      • #
        Serp

        And each EV will necessarily have its ICE backup vehicle for those days when the weather is too cold for effective EV operation.

        30

    • #
      clarence.t

      NSW is nearly always a net “importer” of electricity.

      (we really do need another major reliable electricity production site)

      A whole heap of electric cars just means we have to import even more electricity.

      70

      • #
        Chad

        clarence.t
        June 20, 2021 at 3:26 pm · Reply
        NSW is nearly always a net “importer” of electricity.

        (we really do need another major reliable electricity production site)

        A whole heap of electric cars just means we have to import even more electricity.

        Clarence, you are overlooking the concept and reasoning of a National Grid.
        Does it matter where the power is generated ?..what id there were no “State” borders ?
        Shure, it would be ideal to have power generation as close to possible where it is needed, but that is not practical ( not a lot of consumers in the Hunter !)
        So as long as we have enough generation to supply the demands,…with sufficient back up to cover maintenance and unpredicted events…. then the “grid” system enables a better utilisation of the generators we have in the country.
        And better utilisation should lead to lower costs ?
        However, when some of the existing generators are decommissioned, then certainly the capacity requirements need to be reviewed.
        Oh, and i have previously shown that we currently have more than enough surplus capacity to charge more than a 50% conversion to EV cars (10m) today !

        01

  • #
    TdeF

    We need more information for the Onslow ‘test’. Was it at night?

    80

  • #
    OldOzzie

    How Green Was My Tesla—and How Cheap?

    Car makers are increasingly focusing on the environmental impact of making EVs. While necessary, such efforts could slow the technology’s adoption.

    Auto makers need to ensure their electric vehicles are actually green. They also desperately need to bring down their cost. Pursuing both goals at once is hard.

    The all-electric technology popularized by Tesla involves a kind of front-loading of environmental risk. EVs emit less carbon than a conventional car, even when recharged with electricity made by burning coal, but their powerful batteries require a lot of resources to make.

    This inconvenient truth is one reason car makers are getting more involved in the EV supply chain. Investments such as the new battery factories announced by General Motors this week are mainly about securing greater control over the supply, technology and costs of the most important EV component. But a fourth factor fast rising up the priority list is control over their environmental footprint.

    Buying battery cells made with renewable electricity is one focus. Faced with very strong demand, European battery startup Northvolt, which is backed by Volkswagen and BMW among others, last week raised $2.75 billion to further expand its low-carbon production facility in northern Sweden, where hydroelectric power is plentiful.

    Another hot topic is the mining of battery metals, notably lithium. The industry used to worry more about cobalt, which is sourced mainly from the Democratic Republic of Congo amid charges of child labor, but in recent years the metal’s role in battery chemistry has shrunk. Lithium can’t so easily be minimized in lithium batteries. The stocks of U.S. producers Albemarle and Livent are trading close to record highs.

    “The data is pointing to the battery cost curve coming down much more slowly than hyped. There are a lot of bottlenecks and challenges that people are ignoring,” says Mio Kato, an analyst who publishes on research platform Smartkarma.

    Wealthy consumers might continue to adopt luxury EVs, but in the absence of generous subsidies it is hard to see the technology taking over much of the mass market until they are cheaper than traditional cars. Many forecasters currently expect that to happen around the middle of this decade. The need to keep EVs green is, ironically, another reason why such hopes might prove optimistic.

    80

    • #
      Ronin

      One in five ev drivers is ditching them for ice vehicles due to the hassle of managing the recharging process.

      100

      • #
        Dennis

        And real achievable range as compared to new car and battery pack theoretical range if 100 per cent of energy was available.

        * 10 per cent not usable to protect the batteries.
        * 80 per cent recommended regular recharge level to protect the batteries.
        * Deduct from theoretical and stated range 30 per cent and then extra for variable energy usage when driving.

        And who wants to stop even if there were recharging stations that always work every 150 km as claimed there will be on main highway routes, and wait 30-40 minutes or longer for an 80 per cent charged battery system?

        50

        • #
          Ronin

          What if there are ten other cars waiting for a charge.

          40

          • #
            yarpos

            Nothing if there are 11 chargers

            20

            • #
              clarence.t

              I stopped at the petrol station Wyong petrol station on the M1 the other day.

              Had a coffee, sat for about 20 minutes.

              In that time, something like 60-70 cars filled with petrol.. just the northbound section

              …. and it wasn’t a particularly busy time of day.

              30

              • #
                Dennis

                I drive through Heatherbrae near Raymond Terrace just north of Newcastle regularly and have been checking the service station there, one of several but the one with Tesla recharging facilities.

                Rarely do I see more than one EV at the seven chargers and most often zero.

                And that site being on the main highway.

                30

        • #
          yarpos

          all that has nothing to do with the stated range, and is taken care of by the battey management system. The stated range includes these factors and there is no need to further discount.

          not a big EV fan myself but like to see sensible discussion about them

          00

      • #
        Chad

        Ronin
        June 20, 2021 at 11:08 am · Reply
        One in five ev drivers is ditching them for ice vehicles due to the hassle of managing the recharging process

        Its the “Honeymoon” period, as applies to new toys like EVs, sports cars, motor bikes, boats, etc etc.
        Buyers go for them to be “woke” and boost their ego….
        ….but one the novelty wears off, the lease comes up for renewal, or reality finally prevails…..then common sense takes over and the family sedan returns !
        Ive been there and collected a few of those T shirts !

        00

    • #
      Geoffrey Williams

      Totally agree OldOzzie but what worries me is that when these greenies can’t get their way, they will force EV’s onto us. Perhaps manipulating prices of combustion vehicle or increasing the price of fuel . .
      GeoffW

      20

    • #
      another ian

      More social justice

      “California just told everyone to not charge their electric cars due to power shortage”

      http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2021/06/21/we-dont-need-no-flaming-sparky-cars-65/

      And in comments

      “L – On the upside, you’re less likely to be victim of carjacking, if your electric car battery is dead.”

      00

  • #
    Geoffrey Williams

    847 people live in Onslow WA ;
    There are more people living in my street !!
    GeoffW

    90

  • #
    Chad

    WA / Horizon are hedging their bets on RE technology.
    Up the coast in Denham, they are playing with Hydrogen rather than a big battery..
    https://onestepoffthegrid.com.au/wa-breaks-ground-on-australias-first-renewable-hydrogen-community-microgrid/

    Western Australia hydrogen industry minister Alannah MacTiernan last week officially launched works at the site, where state-owned utility Horizon Power will install a 704kW solar farm, a 348kW hydrogen electrolyser and a 100kW fuel cell.

    The project, which has been jointly funded by the state McGowan government ($5.7m) and the Australian Renewable Energy Agency ($2.6m), marks the first time in Australia that renewable hydrogen will be used to power a remote community.

    The coastal town of Denham, which sits on one of the western-most points of the state, about 100km south of Carnarvon, was chosen for the project due to its proximity to wind and solar resources and land availability. It is currently powered by a combination of diesel and wind.

    As RenewEconomy reported in January 2020, both the town’s group of four wind turbines – installed between 1997 and 1999 – and its diesel plant have reached the end of their operational lives,

    Also interesting that WA has a …. “hydrogen industry minister ”… ?

    50

    • #
      Serp

      We’ve discussed hydrogen often enough in these threads to know these enterprises are at best fantasy and in reality are verging on being criminal enterprises since no rational business case can exist.

      110

    • #
      James Murphy

      Buru Energy is just about to drill 3 wells looking for “natural hydrogen”, just inland from Broome. They just happen to be looking for it whilst drilling for oil. Not sure if they are getting any government subsidies for their H2 search, but it would not surprise me if they were.

      It’s a smart move though, virtue signalling for H2 while the prospective oil sales are the only thing making it economic to spend all the money associated with planning, drilling, and possibly completing wells…

      50

      • #
        Chad

        I do not believe Hydrogen exists as a natural gas ?

        00

        • #
          another ian

          I asked a driller about this. One of his questions:-

          “I have no idea how you establish a hydrogen reservoir?”

          00

        • #
          James Murphy

          Apparently it can accumulate in large enough volumes to be detectable in some circumstances. I was as surprised as you, given how (relatively speaking) rare helium reservoirs are. Have a look for “gold”, or “white” hydrogen.

          I’m still unconvinced it could or would be economic to extract, especially somewhere as remote as Broome.

          Do I really think Buru will find any? I don’t know, but this is why they call it “exploration”… and no, I’ve got no money riding on the outcome, or incentive to care, aside from general curiosity, though the Australian arm of the company I work for is providing services for the drilling campaign, including gas chromatograph/Mass spectrometry, and some other stuff.

          10

      • #
        another ian

        Do you think that the hydrogen enthusiast with the cheque book would know about caveat emptor?

        20

    • #
      NigelW

      Hydrogen is just as viable as hot rocks were…. remember that boondoggle? IIRC Fed Labor Gov’t put 40M into that…. where’s our cheap, renewable hot rock electricity???

      50

      • #
        James Murphy

        It has been a while, just wait for it to pop up again… I think there is another crop of investors and government ministers eager to hand over money for it.

        10

  • #
    TdeF

    All based on a mad idea that carbon dioxide is very dangerous. It has taken 33 years of misinformation to create this situation and in a world technically at peace for 80 years, people have to have something to be against. Especially young people who demand the right to protest.

    Meanwhile the other product of combustion is ignored. In fact 236,000 people a year drown. Many more are killed by storms caused entirely by overheated water. Cyclones, windstorms, tornadoes and floods kill more again. Whole seaside areas are devastated, not to count Tsunamis. How many died from CO2 last year? H2O is the real killer.

    So refusing to combust anything seems a good idea. Except there are 7,000,000,000 humans outputting H2O and CO2 every day because we are all combustion engines, burning hydrocarbons known also as carbohydrates. These need to be banned and at the very least, we should breathe less.

    In fact if 1,400,000,000 Chinese could breathe just a little slower, the saving in CO2 would mean no restrictions for Australia at all. But they refuse. And it’s nice to know our government and people against everything are protesting our lack of action on banning both oxides, hydrogen and carbon. Elements 1, 6 and 8 in the Periodic table should be banned. And all life on earth.

    Living things make a mess of a perfectly good third rock from the sun. We all powerful humans need to save the planet, even if after a mere 100,000 years since homo sapiens appeared and 400 years since Rational science was invented we are little more significant than pond scum on a lake. And the invention of Man made Global Warming is a total triumph of arrogance and ignorance over facts. What happened to science?

    231

    • #
      Richard Owen No.3

      Well, 400 years ago they were burning witches for causing bad weather, and 300 years ago the Phlogiston theory (you know – the invisible, odourless substance with negative weight) was in full flight. People used whale oil for lighting, sanitation wasn’t invented and travel was slow and inconvenient. I think you will see why ‘sumphules’ want us to revert to the glorious old times.

      90

    • #
      PeterS

      More realistically, China, India, Japan, etc. could be asked to stop building hundreds of new coal fired power stations. Of course they won’t listen and perhaps even prompt them to declare war on us if we press the issue too hard, but of course won’t for that very reason. So we are left with the untenable situation where our own governments are in effect at war with their own people by going at great lengths to reduce our emissions, which will have zero impact on the climate but go a long way to destroying the economy and make their lives miserable as hell. With “friends’ like our governments who needs enemies?

      120

  • #
    Rick

    So now factor in the energy demands if every fossil-fueled vehicle and generator in the town was replace by an EV or equivalent device.
    The whole shebang lasted for an hour and ten minutes with most of the actual energy demands of the place being fossil-fueled. Add in the extra power demands of EV’s and the lights would probably go out in less than five minutes.
    What an idiotic and self congratulatory farce. The sanctimonious duck squeezers parading their virtue like the Emperor with no clothes is no more than a laughable example of how truly idiotic woke civil administration really is.
    My contempt for them is bottomless.

    110

  • #
    Ronin

    Oh well, so another high school physics experiment succeeded for 80 mins, whoopee,
    How much did that 80 mins cost, the generators will remain connected for a long time at that rate.

    70

  • #
    David Maddison

    It’s good they’ve got those gas generator units.

    http://winslade.com.au/onslow/

    Commissioned in October 1999, this is a 6 x 600 kW power station with MWM TBG616 gas engines. Power is supplied to Horizon Power for use in the town of Onslow and to the Onslow Salt Project, for use in the processing and shipment of salt.

    The fuel for the power station is natural gas, supplied initially through a 45 km lateral pipeline from the onshore Tubridgi gas field and later via the same pipeline from the BHP Griffin offshore operation. Currently fuel gas is sourced from the DBNG pipeline via CS2 and Tubridgi.

    The MWM TBG616 reciprocating gas engines are similar to a modern car engine, being electronically controlled and turbocharged. They are bigger than a car engine – 35 litres as opposed to 3.5 litres and V16 instead of V6.

    Onslow is a coastal town in the Pilbara region of Western Australia, 1,386 kilometres north of Perth. It currently has a population of around 850 people and is in the Shire of Ashburton Local Government Area.

    Onslow was founded in 1883 as a port at the mouth of the Ashburton River for exporting wool from the sheep stations of the Pilbara hinterland. It was named after the then Chief Justice of Western Australia, Sir Alexander Campbell Onslow (1842–1908). Wool continued to be the major industry for the next eighty years, despite the extraordinary extremes of drought and flood that characterize the region and are related to the passage or absence of cyclones. For instance, whereas in 1912 Onslow received only 14.8 millimetres (0.58 in) of rainfall and in 1935 and 1936 combined only 120 millimetres (4.7 in), between late January and early March 1961 three cyclones smashed into the town and gave it 900 millimetres (35.4 in) in five weeks.

    80

    • #
      Chad

      ??.. you may have the wrong info there David..
      From the original link..

      Horizon built the gas plant in Onslow – the launching base for the massive Wheatstone LNG project owned by Chevron – and commissioned it in 2018, and then in 2019 delivered the solar farm and battery, with some funding help from Chevron.

      20

  • #
    PeterS

    If the ACT is to continue pursing their agenda to reduce emissions to zero, it should first disconnect permanently from the grid given it mainly supplies fossil-fuel based power. Oh gosh! They already are at zero according to their press releases. If this is not proof they are liars then nothing is. WAKE UP AUSTRALIA! You are being treated for fools. Our nations is going to crash and burn unless a lot of people wake up.

    110

    • #
      Richard Owen No.3

      PeterS:

      As I understand their claim (about 100% renewables) was based on RET Certificates from SA wind farms. Obviously with no connection between NSW and SA they either had to have that electricity packed in big bags and trucked to Canberra or they use (as usual) mainly coal-fired supply from NSW.

      What I can’t understand is why, with wholesale prices of electricity dropping, and the value of RET Certificates dropping over 50%, the cost of electricity in the ACT has gone up?
      Still, these are the people running the country so they must know what they are doing.

      20

  • #
    Simon B

    How much does it cost to light an Onslower home for an hour on full renewables?

    20

  • #
    Lance

    Apparently, Onslow does not produce anything, mine anything, or manufacture anything, excepting some salt.

    How is that a model for an industrial society?

    Onslow is little but a taxpayer subsidized AdVert for living in the 18th century. No Thanks.

    30

    • #
      clarence.t

      I don’t think they actually “manufacture” salt. 😉

      They “extract” it in sun-powered evaporation basins, thus adding to the main GHG in the atmosphere.

      50

      • #
        Chad

        I guess its a cross between “Harvesting”. And “ strip mining “. But either way they will be using a fair bit of heavy equipment to grade/scrape , load, transport, etc etc.
        Likely diesel powered i suspect ?

        40

        • #
          clarence.t

          Pretty sure they use piped gas for the big power supplies.

          Diesel for trucks etc ? or maybe they are gas also.

          10

  • #
    David Maddison

    The Left keep telling us that solar and wind are now so incredibly cheap that they will put proper power generators out of business.

    Those few members of the Left who at least understand there is an intermittency problem also tell us that batteries can be used to solve that problem and that batteries are now cheap as well.

    Therefore, why can’t those who promote ruinables also completely disconnect proper coal, gas, nuclear and hydro (not SH2) generators from the grid in places like this town or the A.C.T.?

    Also, no domestic solar installations should be allowed to be connected to the grid. Let them manage on battery backup.

    100

    • #
      clarence.t

      Snowy 2 is actually quite ironic.

      They will use grid power to pump the water, when grid power is cheaper, and release when grid price is high.

      This will mean that coal fired power stations can produce at higher base levels during off-peak times.

      ie more coal fired electricity, to allow for that pumped hydro. 🙂

      80

      • #
        David Maddison

        Also, SH2 is only 60% efficient due to the extremely long tunnels. Normal pumped hydro is 80% efficient or more.

        So a lot of extra coal has to be burned to make up for the inefficiency.

        SH2 will likely cause the consumption of more coal than at present…

        80

        • #
          clarence.t

          “SH2 will likely cause the consumption of more coal than at present…”

          But more efficiently, because it will level out the electricity production curves. 🙂

          20

          • #
            • #
              clarence.t

              Keith.. if SH2 is drawing electricity at off-peak times, then it has to come from somewhere.

              Given the erratic behaviour of wind and solar, it will generally come from coal or gas supplies.

              If there is an increased off-peak demand because of that off-peak SH2 pumping, then coal doesn’t have to throttle down as much, therefore runs more efficiently.

              40

      • #
        Hanrahan

        This will mean that coal fired power stations can produce at higher base levels during off-peak times.

        I once tried to explain to a renewables fanatic, using logic, that grid scale storage would mainly benefit coal fired stations. He couldn’t/wouldn’t see it.

        50

        • #
          clarence.t

          If renewables are being used to fill the storage, they cannot at the same time be used as supply.

          It is inevitable the batteries will be filled using reliable supplies, ie coal and gas.

          eg, if the SA battery is currently being charged, its not by wind.. gas is providing 85% of the supply.

          10

  • #
    Dennis

    Ask the woke business people and politicians how “green energy” can be identified when being used by a consumer, and when the sources supply not much more, unreliably and intermittently, than 10 per cent of supply?

    40

    • #
      PeterS

      Perhaps our political “masters” should demand that all coal fired power stations be closed down immediately so we can reach 100% renewables sooner than expected. After all, isn’t that their policy? Of course it’s all a lie. They don’t really care about how long it takes to get to 100% renewables. That will be someone else’s problem. All they care about is winning the next election by appeasing to the masses that we are track to reduce our emissions to zero and save the world. Sometimes I wonder why we even bother having elections given we end up with the same old BSing politicians.

      90

      • #
        el gordo

        Democracy is full of career politicians trying to save their seats at the next election and its up to us, the electorate, to shape the parliament.

        Give me the name of one Australian politician who has gained your grudging respect?

        03

        • #
          Annie

          Craig Kelly.

          100

          • #
            Annie

            Not grudging either.

            80

          • #
            Ian

            “Craig Kelly”

            Really?? Best make the most of it as he is not likely to be a politician after the next election

            29

            • #
              clarence.t

              Now that’s funny, because it is so delusional. !

              2019 election..

              Liberals 50,763 votes

              Labor 29,088 votes

              I don’t think “Dominion” do the vote counting in NSW. 😉

              50

            • #
              clarence.t

              Craig Kelly’s electorate

              2019 election..

              Liberals 50,763 votes

              Labor 29,088 votes

              50

              • #
                clarence.t

                nb .. votes in NSW are not counted by Dominion.

                50

              • #
                clarence.t

                Interesting, I used the word Dom-in-ion, as not being involved in NSW counting

                … and the post went into moderation.

                40

              • #
                Ian

                Kelly ain’t in the LNP no more he’s an Independent.

                10

              • #
                Ian

                Craig Kelly is now an Independent sous unlikely to be elected.. Try keeping up with events why doncha?

                10

              • #
                clarence.t

                You really think Craig Kelly won’t hold a large proportion of the votes as an Independent. You are delusional and unaware, aren’t you.

                Will the Liberals even run a candidate against him.

                Craig Kelly is one of the Liberals greatest weapons, because he is free to break away from the LINOs and say what really needs to be said.

                21

              • #
                Ian

                “Craig Kelly is one of the Liberals greatest weapons, because he is free to break away from the LINOs and say what really needs to be said.”

                You’re having a lend aren’t you? Craig Kelly is a totally sad loser whose achievements are non-existent. As your comments show he doesn’t have any profile at all as you yourself didn’t know he was out of the LNP till I told you.

                My comment June 20, 2021 at 4:15 pm ·

                “Craig Kelly”

                Really?? Best make the most of it as he is not likely to be a politician after the next election

                your reply June 20 10.38 pm

                Now that’s funny, because it is so delusional. !
                2019 election..
                Liberals 50,763 votes
                Labor 29,088 votes
                I don’t think “Dominion” do the vote counting in NSW. 😉

                Just shows how even an ardent supporter had no idea he’d left the LNP to become an independent.

                And as for what he says, Morrison warned him and Facebook banned him for his comments on Covid-19. His chances at the next election aren’t great as even One Nation won’t have him.

                You’re backing a complete dud. But then…

                12

              • #
                Ian

                I replied some hours ago but my comment is still in moderation. Why? I’ll probably never know.

                11

              • #
                clarence.t

                Poor Ian, seems he has very little comprehension of how the preferential voting system works.

                Craig has been a very strong member for the local region, he has a strong name and strong backers.

                If the Liberals do put a candidate forward, it will be between an unknown Liberal candidate and Craig Kelly.

                Kelly stands very good chance of re-election.

                Or do you think childish Labor will preference the Liberal candidate, whoever that may be, because of their hatred for Craig Kelly. 😉

                10

          • #
            David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

            You might be interested in his speech in the 12 minute link at #29 in:
            https://joannenova.com.au/2021/06/weekend-unthreaded-365/#comment-2436117
            Cheers
            Dave B

            10

        • #
          Ronin

          Peter Dutton.

          90

        • #
          PeterS

          el gordo yet again you show how naive you are and how you miss the point. We are in the current predicament mainly because the politicians on both sides are telling lies to the people about how reducing our emissions is important. Given people predominantly vote for the major parties, and preferences dictate that most of the rest go to the same two major parties, we end up with no change on the issue. There is no solution other than to wait for the people to suffer much more pain and then they will have no choice but to wake up to reality. Perhaps then we will get a change of attitude by our politicians, assuming it’s not too late and we have a crash and burn scenario that could lead us to be “assisted” by the CCP.

          61

          • #
            el gordo

            The masses won’t wake up until the MSM comes clean on AGW, then the politicians will behave like statesmen. I know its frustrating, but we have to wait until the climate changes.

            Don’t give up on democracy just yet.

            12

            • #
              Serp

              Oh dear el gordo you have definitely come unhinged, I hope not finally; perhaps a chiropractor can help.

              41

              • #
                el gordo

                Barnaby Joyce would be a better leader for the Nats and he gets my grudging admiration.

                31

              • #
                clarence.t

                “Barnaby Joyce would be a better leader for the Nats.”

                Just wait a few days.

                Maybe by the end of the week. 🙂

                30

              • #
                el gordo

                Rejoice!

                ‘Barnaby Joyce is the victor in a National Party leadership spill, winning the vote against Michael McCormack.’ Oz

                30

              • #
                clarence.t

                Great news !

                Sooner than I expected. 🙂

                20

              • #
                PeterS

                That is indeed good news. I just hope he makes waves and doesn’t take any of the BSing coming from PM Morrison.

                20

              • #
                Ian

                Good to hear Joyce got the nod as he is backing the Murugappan family’s return to Biloela

                22

        • #
          yarpos

          Jeff Kennett, that’s all I got

          30

      • #
        Ronin

        As they say, if voting actually achieved anything, it would be illegal.

        60

  • #
    Dennis

    Obviously, if wind and solar equipment was superior and cheaper third world developing countries would install them and not coal fired power stations.

    And China would supply them instead of coal fired power stations to countries they provide power stations as foreign aid gifts.

    20

    • #
      el gordo

      Along the belt and road they put in a mix of energy, based on economic rationalist ideas. If coal is handy, then obviously that is the way to go, but elsewhere hydro and renewables also get a slice of the market.

      22

  • #
    Dennis

    Close to the border between Queensland and New South Wales, west of Murwillumbah, is the picturesque town of Tyalgum which was a centre for dairy farming and still in the Main Street is the old NORCO Butter Factory building.

    The Northern Rivers districts became a favourite place for the 1960s hippies and many like minded people still live there.

    The people of Tyalgum, I found out recently, decided to use so called renewable energy as their sources of electricity and after meetings the majority supported this “green” project.

    But it did not proceed, the cost of installation and the cost of town electricity was far higher than remaining connected to the state electricity grid.

    But it seemed like a good plan at the time, for the environment of course.

    100

    • #
      Ronin

      Hippies liked those places because there was absolutely NO chance of getting a job there.

      40

    • #
      clarence.t

      “for the environment of course.”

      How many trees needed to be chopped to install the wind turbines ?

      Or does wind turbine virtue-seeking trump environmental damage ?

      20

      • #
        Chris

        Yes, trees, rare and endangered species, farmland; are all expendable for the totem to environmental purity.

        40

      • #
        Flok

        And in addition there is a global shortage of Balsa wood which is used in manufacture of wind blades. So for the sake of renewable energy the tropical forests are being decimated.

        20

  • #
    Dennis

    What happened to the was well publicised around the world trip in a solar powered electric motor vessel?

    I read a while ago that it’s progress was very slow in rough seas and prevailing winds and tides and many times it was forced to change direction, which was of course how sailing ships manoeuvred to cope with conditions.

    Maybe the electric boat failed to compete the mission?

    50

  • #
    King Geo

    While on the subject of Solar Power. How about the Australia-ASEAN Power Grid proposal. NT Solar farms sending electricity to Darwin – that’s straight forward enough but then we have the real cost blow out and total madness. A submarine cable to send the electricity to Singapore and other ASEAN nations. Projected cost ~A$23 billion. An engineering friend of mine says that cost is likely to blow out to close to A$100by. The submarine cable to run from Darwin to Singapore (3,750km). And my major concern – what about the cable crossing the 3km deep Timor Trench? This is an engineering nightmare with potential seismic movements and associated deep marine severe current activity. The designers of the project are smart enough it seems to build the submarine cable on the northern side of the Indonesian arc islands e.g. Java, thus avoiding the seismically active southern Sunda Trench.

    The question is why would Singapore want to but this electricity when it has 3 oil refineries?

    Are they being bullied by some major western trading nations fearing trade reprisals?

    60

    • #
      Dave

      This won’t happen!

      The group building the cable have a Toyota Hilux and a tiny boat with a submersible drone thing!

      What have Sun Cable built so far?

      Well absolutely NOTHING!

      Yet all the CEOs, CFOs, CMOs, CMCs, etc are into about 37 so far, including a whole lot of Country parasites as well!

      And in another Geothermal Tim Flannery CON JOB!
      The Australian ABC is on board with advertising!

      Can see a lot of investors going pear shaped over this one!
      All completed within the next 5 to 6 years!

      I’d prefer a lotto a ticket!

      11

  • #
    Dennis

    A reminder of what China thinks about so called renewables as compared to power stations;

    https://joannenova.com.au/2021/06/china-suddenly-puts-brakes-on-climate-action-and-solar-subsidies/

    40

  • #
    Ronin

    1903, Wright Bros plane flies less than the wingspan of a 747, 1909, world breathless as Louis Bleriot flies barely 20 miles across the English Channel, 2021, Onslow breathless as solar powers town for 80 mins.
    You can see we have a ways to go here.

    60

  • #
    Ronin

    King Island 16:10, 100% diesel.

    50

    • #
      clarence.t

      Last evening around 8pm EST, there was basically no wind anywhere.

      SA: 97% gas and diesel
      NSW: 84% Coal and gas, 10% Hydro
      Qld: 94% coal 5% hydro
      Vic: 79% Coal and gas, 18% hydro

      Where would we be without that coal and gas?. ie fossil fuels. !

      60

  • #
    Mal

    Here’s a website that is a similar operating microgrid…….it does gives pricings

    https://www.synergy.net.au/Global/Alkimos-Peak-Demand-Saver-plan

    it is expensive without solar credits so if you use the power during the day, you pay

    10

    • #
      Chad

      Not quite the same microgrid system , Mal…
      That is simply a “Community Battery” supply plan ( 1.1MWh, costing. $6.7m ?? ) ..for a community where Roof Top solar is COMPULSORY for every residence. !
      There is no utility Solar farm.
      …….(but i suspect there is a Diesel generator hidden away somewhere ?)

      30

  • #
    Doc

    I have a lot of respect for the truly knowledgeable and science educated people commenting on Jo’s blog.
    My question to you all is: what would a renewable energy power supply system actually look like, on today’s science, that must be reliable and expandable to cover all demands upon it.

    Lomborg had his say on the extreme limitations people would have to limit themselves to, to ‘avoid’ the x degrees of temperature rise as postulated by the doomsday proselytisers. The question in fact, should be directed at the same malingerers that demand this lunacy, just so the general population know the inanity lying behind their demands and the makeup of the people we are supposed to obey -and whom our politicians actually bend the knee to. They have to be the ones answering for their nonsense – and my language here is very restrained. What’s their immediate knowledge as to how this nation should change to meet their demands along with the national economic destruction they seek. I suggest their answers will be as insane as the insulting theory they can’t prove to lead the world down this road to destruction – and their further empowerment.

    20

    • #
      Lance

      Doc, the short answer is “It will never happen”.

      Firstly, at least One of the primary generators MUST be a synchronous generator, otherwise there is no reference frequency for the microgrid inverters to synchronize with, therefore they cannot engage the grid, micro or otherwise.

      Secondly, without some VERY expensive power electronics at each inverted input, those inverters cannot provide adequate reactive power. Without reactive power, induction motors or anything that appears as a significant inductive load, won’t work. So, imagine a world with no motors, no AirCons, no elevators, no manufacturing, nothing with a motor larger than about 1/2 Hp.

      You could have lights, electric resistance heat, electric hot water heaters, but no microwave ovens, induction stoves, or any significant reactive load devices. Probably no cell towers, no refrigeration, no MRI or CAT scanners, etc.

      It would be a very restricted world. Some will say I’m pessimistic, but my question is “Where is the experience with a distributed microgrid power system that cannot support reactive loads?”

      Imagine you are in an airplane at 10 km altitude and some guy says “Hey, I’ve got a great idea. Let’s start improving the aircraft electrical, hydraulic, propulsion, navigation, and communications systems while we are airborne. Trust me. The guys in row 3 say it’ll work”.

      60

      • #
        Chad

        Lance
        June 21, 2021 at 4:19 am ·
        Firstly, at least One of the primary generators MUST be a synchronous generator, otherwise there is no reference frequency for the microgrid inverters to synchronize with, therefore they cannot engage the grid, micro or otherwise.

        Secondly, without some VERY expensive power electronics at each inverted input, those inverters cannot provide adequate reactive power. Without reactive power, induction motors or anything that appears as a significant inductive load, won’t work. So, imagine a world with no motors, no AirCons, no elevators, no manufacturing, nothing with a motor larger than about 1/2 Hp

        Lance, the Battery supplier makes the following claims for operational benefits of the battery..
        Is it possible that this “80min” test was to see just how effective factors like the “Reactive Power Support” actually was ??

        Magellan Power designed and manufactured the Utility Scale Battery Storage System which consisted of a 1MW/550kWh Battery Energy Storage System (BESS) in two 20 foot containers.

        The BESS can be used for:
        • Dynamic Spinning Reserve – (no need to use an additional gen-set as spinning reserve).
        • Grid V/F Stabilisation (synthetic inertia and active damping).
        • Grid Forming Constant V/F Source.
        • Black Start of Power Plant.
        • Load-Power Shifting.
        • Load Leveling.
        • Peak Shaving.
        • Utility Transformer Energisation (mitigates the issues due to high inrush currents).
        • Transmission Line Energisation.
        • Microgrid Voltage and Frequency Regulation (V/F).
        • Active Power Support.
        • Dynamic Active Power Control (P).
        • Active Power Absorption.
        • Reactive Power Support.
        • Dynamic Reactive Power Control (Q).
        • Voltage Clamping (Reactive Power Grid Support).

        00

        • #
          Lance

          If it was an experiment, they ought have said so clearly.

          The battery capacity is 550 kWh. For a coal/nuke/gas plant, that entire output is roughly AUD 30 in fuel costs. All of their claimed features you already have with your thermal power plants, at no extra charge, and additionally that infrastructure is paid for.

          Their system either has to synchronize with the thermal/hydro grid frequency, or the microgrid must be “islanded”. The microgrid cannot impose its frequency upon the larger grid.

          Whatever reactive power they create through power electronics will subtract from the battery capacity because the apparent power (total power generated) is the vector sum of the True/Real power and the Reactive/Imaginary power.

          Their system must cost close to 2 Million. For that money, a coal/gas/nuke plant could provide their 550 kWh for about 73,000 hours, continuously. About 8 years.

          The question isn’t “can” they do it, but rather “why would anyone want to do it?”

          It isn’t as if AU is running out of coal or that it would matter at all if AU stopped all coal/gas generation. China is commissioning a new coal plant about every 10 days, regardless of what AU does. India as well.

          Magellan has some impressive tech. Sure. But is it rational to employ it?

          10

    • #
      Ian

      “My question to you all is: what would a renewable energy power supply system actually look like, on today’s science, that must be reliable and expandable to cover all demands upon it.”

      Probably it would actually look like a nuclear reactor which isn’t strictly speaking a renewable but it doesn’t emit CO2 either

      25

      • #
        clarence.t

        Not going to happen in Australia.

        Gas is the current reliable of choice eg South Australia had 94% gas last night…+ 3% diesel

        Coal will make a resurgence once all this anti-CO2 gas of life malarkey gets thrown in the circular file where it belongs.

        30

  • #
    Russ

    When we built Wheatstone LNG Plant they built a new airport which was solar powered, mainly I’d say because it was remote from the town of Onslow, which at that stage was powered by diesel gen sets. The government had been negotiating to get a pipeline run from Wheatstone to Onslow to supply a new gas powered generation plant and when that was finalised Downer built the new gas power station and installed the supply mains to the town. Onslow runs on LNG and the solar grid is just an expensive gimmick.

    90

  • #
  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    Fossil fuel subsidies cost Australians a staggering $10.3 billion in FY 2020-21 with one Commonwealth tax break alone ($7.84 billion) exceeding the $7.82 billion spent on the Australian Army, according to research released today by The Australia Institute.

    In fact, $10.3 billion in Government subsidies means that in 2020, every minute of every day $19,686 was effectively given to coal, oil and gas companies and major users of fossil fuels.

    Even Arena is being forced to provide funding for fossil fuel projects

    And yet renewables with only a tiny fraction of the subsidies that fossil fuel is getting has snapped up 24% of the energy market.

    So my question is – how are you going to stop renewables exactly? Complaining about their efficiency is not working, false flags about lack or solar at night or wind are not working.

    What are you going to do?

    017

    • #
      Klem

      I agree, Fitzey, all subsidies for renewables should end. It only takes sense, especially now that solar and wind power are cheaper than all fossil fuels.

      Good idea, Fitzey.

      60

    • #
      Lance

      Nice try, PF. Do your numbers have any basis in reality or are they fictitious?

      Producing a kW of electricity costs about 4 cents. Storing it in a battery costs about $200 or 5,000 times more than it is worth, more if the costs of inversion, integration, backup, and voltage/frequency support are included.

      Without government intervention and massive subsidies, renewables wouldn’t exist except the niche places they are actually relevant. Like sailboat comm gear and hunting cabin lighting or flashing crosswalk signs.

      US based information. AU cannot be radically different.

      “We are constantly treated to disinformation claiming that wind or solar is competitive with fossil fuels. How is it competitive when it can’t replace fossil fuels, but only serves as a supplemental source of power that reduces fuel consumption in the fossil-fuel plants? Since it costs far more to reduce the fuel consumed than it is worth, wind and solar make absolutely no sense.”

      https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/06/wind_and_solar_require_massive_subsidies.html

      “So in 2010 and 2011, solar cost about 100¢ per kWh, and in 2013 and 2014, solar cost about 80¢ per kWh. Even after the ARRA funds were depleted after 2013, the cost of solar is still double what is usually given as its cost.

      For comparison, nuclear energy cost between 4¢ and 5¢ per kWh to produce over this time period. Remember, though, the cost to produce energy is not the same as the price charged for it. Price is set by the region and the market, and has add-ons for transmission, grid maintenance and other non-production costs. Subsidies decrease the price while increasing the cost.

      Although wind received more total subsidies, wind received much less subsidies per kWh produced than solar as it produced much more energy. However, it is nonetheless significant for 2010 and 2013 and about 50 times that of nuclear and fossil fuels, allowing wholesale prices for wind and solar to become negative, unfairly undercutting nuclear, hydro and coal prices.”

      https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2017/05/30/why-do-federal-subsidies-make-renewable-energy-so-costly/?sh=51311e98128c

      “For subsidies related to electricity production, EIA data shows that solar energy was subsidized at $24.34 per megawatt hour and wind at $23.37 per megawatt hour for electricity generated in 2007. By contrast, coal received 44 cents, natural gas and petroleum received 25 cents, hydroelectric power 67 cents, and nuclear power $1.59 per megawatt hour.”

      https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/renewable/wind/energy-subsidies-study/
      [Sorry about the delay here in approving this comment Lance! – Jo]

      50

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘ … false flags about lack or solar at night or wind are not working.’

      They are real, that is why they are installing gas.

      You would be better making the argument that the free market is supporting renewables with their own monies. The Renewable zones in NSW is a standout and Premier Gladys has put money in the hat to help smooth the way.

      42

    • #
      clarence.t

      “one Commonwealth tax break alone”

      Peter just told everyone that he is clueless about what a “subsidy” actually is.

      He needs to go back an get a basic education so his comments are so stupidly incorrect.

      81

    • #
      clarence.t

      “how are you going to stop renewables exactly?”

      Just wait for a windless night !!

      Last evening around 8pm EST, there was basically no wind anywhere.

      SA: 97% gas and diesel
      NSW: 84% Coal and gas, 10% Hydro
      Qld: 94% coal 5% hydro
      Vic: 79% Coal and gas, 18% hydro

      Where would we be without that coal and gas?. ie fossil fuels. !

      80

    • #
      clarence.t

      “false flags about lack or solar at night or wind”

      Did I mention……

      Last night around 8pm… basically no wind anywhere…

      Even the tiny SA was using 97% gas and diesel

      Do you ever tire of being terminally and provably wrong ?

      70

    • #
      Lance

      Peter: “So my question is – how are you going to stop renewables exactly?”

      That’s easy. Nature does it. Solar stops at Night. Wind power stops when the wind is calm.

      If you actually mean stop their deployment, that’s easy, also.

      Just shut down the inter-connector and the coal/gas generators for 1 week, because, you know, solar and wind can do it all as you say. Be certain to tell everyone it was your idea in advance.

      After that week, let us all know how things went.

      60

    • #
      Lance

      Peter F, did you know that lead can be turned into gold? Seriously. It can.

      “It would cost more than one quadrillion dollars per ounce to produce gold by this experiment,” Seaborg told the Associated Press that year. The going rate for an ounce of gold at the time? About $560. ( USD 105 Trillion / gram in 2020 dollars )

      https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-lead-can-be-turned-into-gold/

      Very much like wind and solar energy can become a viable energy solution at grid scale.

      You simply need an unlimited supply of “Other People’s Money”.

      80

    • #
      TedM

      Don’t call a tax deduction a subsidy, it’s lying.

      20

  • #
    Ronin

    Wait for the grid to collapse, which it will, then even the morons pushing this BS will have to concede it doesn’t work.

    70

    • #
      PeterS

      I doubt they will concede. They will demand more money be spent on building bigger farms and batteries, all subsidised of course.

      40

    • #
      Terry

      Wait for the grid to collapse, which it will, then even the morons pushing this BS will have to concede it doesn’t work.

      The likelihood of anyone overcoming their entrenched cognitive dissonance around electricity supply is about the same as renewables supplanting fossils as a cheap, reliable, and effective alternative (Nil).

      Even when the lights go out, their homes turn cold (if they still have one), and the bodies of the poor pile high, it will still be all the fault of evil Coal and CO2 (“carbon emissions” in their hysterical parlance).

      Many of these people exist only because of the complete success (at taming the environment) of the civilisation they now seek to dismantle, due only to their conceit, hubris, and ingrained ignorance.

      The solution will become even clearer to them; we must sacrifice even more humans to Gaia, to save the planet. No amount of financial hardship (of others), wealth destruction (of others), devolution to medieval living standards (for others), or the deaths of others (especially those we are most compassionate about) will be too many to signal our virtue in this noble cause (…of evil and mass murder).

      Nope. Unfortunately, there will be no great Enlightenment2.0 until after we’re all done with DarkAges2.0 and then Nuremberg2.0.

      I am not sure we are even at the end of the beginning.

      50

  • #
    Ronin

    Some nummies use genuine income tax rebates as ” Fossil fuel subsidies”, nevertheless, it’s fossil fuel that’s keeping the lights on, S&W just isn’t capable.

    60

    • #
      clarence.t

      One can only assume the comment was based on base-level ignorance of what constitutes a subsidy.

      I’ve only read a couple of Peter’s posts, but “basic ignorance” seems to be the underlying meme that he has chosen to present.

      90

    • #
      Maptram

      The taxes paid on petrol, diesel and similar taxes are road taxes and are used for the maintenance of public roads. Mining businesses, primary producers and others who use the fuels and pay the taxes but use the fuel for off road purposes, are not liable the tax so they receive a rebate for the tax paid, not a subsidy.

      On the other hand, when Governments propose that EV users should pay a road tax, in other words contribute to the maintenance of the roads they use, the EV users and believers get upset.

      70

  • #
    Geoffrey Williams

    ‘Fossil fuel subidies’ sounds like (if it’s true) money well spent I’d say as its the only thing keeping the lights on at the present time in Australia and it has served us well.
    Forget useless renwables !!
    And in reply to your question I’m not going to do anthing. What about you sunshine ?
    GeoffW

    10

  • #
    • #
      PeterS

      The point here is it puts all the moves allegedly to save the planet into perspective. For completeness, if the planet were in real danger from mankind then we would have to stop all non-Western nations around the world from attaining the same sort of living standards as the West, stop building more coal fired power stations all over the world, stop using plastics, etc., etc.. That of course will not happen. So, the whole Green Thing in the West including the emissions reduction agenda a complete waste of time and money, not to mention the fact it goes a long way to destroying our economies. In conclusions, that unequivocally makes all our state and federal “leaders” our real enemies, not the CPP or other foreign governments. It’s time the public woke up and focused on our own “leaders” for the horrific damage they are deliberately causing to our future.

      70

  • #
    Neville

    RUINABLES like S&W are a TOXIC mess and pollute the environment ABOVE and below the ground.
    OH and at times they generate ZIP useful power and at times when the DEMAND is high they sometimes produce ZIP AGAIN.
    And every 20 years S&W just become a TOXIC LANDFILL disaster AGAIN for the environment and FOREVER.
    Lomborg, Shellenberger Koonin etc have shown using IPCC data that even if the entire planet followed their RUINABLES doctrine to the letter , it would have no measurable change on climate.
    Zickfeld et al tell us that stopping all HUMAN co2 emissions today would have no MEASURABLE impact for over a THOUSAND years.
    Even the LEFT WING CONVERSATION agrees with Zickfeld + the Royal Society and the US NAS etc. Even maths genius Nic Lewis thinks there would be little impact for hundreds of years.
    So we are about to waste endless TRILLIONS $ to wreck the environment FOREVER and for a disastrous ZERO RETURN.
    Anyone not see a problem with any of this IDIOCY? DUH.

    80

    • #
      PeterS

      Yeah, the problem is clear as day in my mind. Our “leaders” in the West and only in the West are the problem and the solution is in the hands of the masses. For now the masses are asleep. Not sure how much pain they need to suffer before they wake up and do something about it. Time will tell.

      50

  • #
    Neville

    The CSIRO tell us that the SH is already a NET co2 SINK and the NH is the NET co2 SOURCE. See the Tas Cape Grim Link.
    And Aussies emit about 1.1% of global emissions and the USA+ EU combined haven’t increased co2 emissions since 1970. Of course NON OECD countries’ emissions have soared and many hundreds of CF stns being built and even more are planned for the future.
    See the Wiki graph I’ve linked to a number of times.

    60

  • #
    clarence.t

    Not good news for the world, what with reliability of many electricity supply being highly compromised by the anti-reliable agenda.

    https://notrickszone.com/2021/06/20/researchers-foresee-weak-solar-cycles-until-2050-unwelcome-meteorological-and-climatic-consequences/

    40

  • #
    Neville

    Here’s Dr Rosling’s the world BBC + ALL COUNTRIES 1810 to 2010 DATA and takes you under 5 minutes to watch.
    OH and the data tells us things have IMPROVED in just the last 10 YEARS as well.
    So for 200 K years human life expectancy was under 40 and little wealth, BUT since we’ve changed to FOSSIL FUELS HEALTH and WEALTH have SOARED. IN JUST 200 YEARS.
    WHEN WILL THEY WAKE UP? And China has become a super power in just the last 30 years and their life exp is now 77 and catching up fast to the best of OECD, like Aussie life exp.
    But this is the REAL planet Earth, not their fantasy planet infested with delusional,loony lefties.
    OWI DATA etc shows the improvement since 2010 if you’e interested.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbkSRLYSojo

    20

  • #
    another ian

    “Wind drought alert. Monday 21 update”

    https://catallaxyfiles.com/2021/06/20/wind-drought-alert/

    And

    “As an aside, check out the amount of stuff in a windmill. Start with 900 tons of steel, 2500 tons of concrete and 45 tons of plastic.

    Then think about the number of extra windmills required to turn all the red, black and brown parts of the bars of the NemWatch widget into green!”

    Obvious investment potential in steel, concrete and plastic!

    60

    • #
      Neville

      Yes A Ian and every 20 years we have to bury this TOXIC mess, FOREVER.
      Just check out Dr Rosling’s DATA above since 1810 and the amazing healthy, wealthy world we have today compared to 50 years, 100 years and 200 years ago and for nearly all of the last 200,000 years.
      OH and the planet is GREENING for the last 30+ years. A WIN, WIN for everyone if we only had the brains to see it.
      When will these lefty loonies WAKE UP?

      60

    • #
      clarence.t

      Then think about the number of extra windmills required to turn all the red, black and brown parts of the bars of the NemWatch widget into green!

      How many windmills does South Australia have ?

      And yet yesterday evening, they were 97% gas and diesel.

      You might get enough to turn SA bar “green” on a very limited occasional basis,

      but never enough to do it 24/7.

      50

      • #
        another ian

        As with the levee analogy.

        It is the height of the low point that matters. Not the highest point or even the average height

        40

  • #
    Neville

    Willis Eschenbach checks out their so called climate emergency and uses all the data for many graphs etc. Check it out.
    Dr Rosling, Spencer, Christy, Happer, Lindzen, Pielke jnr, Mc Intyre, McKitrick, Nova +Evans,Humlum, Koonin, Shellenberger, Lomborg etc can’t find their EMERGENCY or the Biden donkey’s EXISTENTIAL THREAT etc either.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/04/25/wheres-the-emergency/

    30

  • #
    • #
      clarence.t

      I think its a great achievement to get 70km out of a battery power aircraft. 😉

      Horse and cart would be about as useful.

      50

      • #
        another ian

        “Horse and cart would be about as useful.”

        A bigger payload for that 70 m and after it much more useful

        50

        • #
          Dennis

          This might be converted to battery powered propellers and be able to carry a busload of passengers as well as the weight of the batteries …

          And recharge after each flight within a couple of weeks.

          The C-17A Globemaster III provides the Air Force with an unprecedented capacity for strategic airlift. It allows Australia to rapidly deploy troops, supplies, combat vehicles, heavy equipment and helicopters anywhere in the world.

          20

        • #
          Ronin

          And horse exhaust is good for the roses.

          30

  • #
    Bradley Ashworth

    It took a bit of digging to find that the modular gas plant is 5.25MW. So its 1.3MW of solar, 1 MW of battery with the rest required being gas. Why not make the whole thing gas! $/MW anybody?

    110

  • #
    TdeF

    I can only think Bradley means 1MWhr of battery, enough to store 1/1.3 or 0.77hours/46 minutes of solar energy. There is no point storing the gas energy.

    And they do say ‘small scale solar’ so their domestic solar panels and batteries must supply the rest, which means a lot of solar panels.

    However if you had to cover for the base load 5.25Mw gas plant on a very hot summer night, the big battery would last 11 minutes before all the lights, computers, telephones went off. That’s energy security for you in a brave new world.

    60

    • #
      TdeF

      And the cost is here ($US). At least $A1million not counting shipping and delivery and installation plus a tiny bit of markup, say $1.5Million? For 11 minutes.

      60

      • #
        TdeF

        Then there’s former SA Premier Weatherill’s solution, a Tesla 100Mw battery for over $100Million, which lasts 7 minutes for South Australia. However he quietly put in huge rented diesel generators for his government people because we all know how essential they are and how they cannot be expected to use the same reliable wind driven system as everyone else.

        60

        • #
          Richard Owen No.3

          Now, now TdeF:
          The Tesla battery would (theoretically) be only good for 6 minutes maximum assuming it could discharge at maximum rate and to 100% capacity for that time.
          In practice it enables the operators (no pun intended) to store electricity when the wind blows (as it does for all the other turbines) and supply increases so the price drops. Then they release it when the wind isn’t blowing (as it doesn’t for all the other turbines) and supply drops so the price increases. It is said to be VERY PROFITABLE so why don’t all those other wind farms do the same?

          30

    • #
      clarence.t

      And if your supply is mainly gas, the only reason for a battery is like the SA reason, to stabilise the frequency fluctuations due to the erratic nature of wind turbines and solar panels.

      The SA battery owners are making a motza doing just that.

      They certainly are not “supplying” any electricity.

      70

      • #
        TdeF

        That was the unexpected benefit of a big battery. It allowed one windmill or farm to go down without pulling down the entire state. Talk about lucky! No one had thought of this. And all the owners are making a motza, batteries, windmills, solar. That’s why they’re doing it! And that’s our money pouring in to faux Green wallets. To save the planet? No.

        60

    • #
      Chad

      TdeF
      June 21, 2021 at 2:27 pm · Reply
      I can only think Bradley means 1MWhr of battery,

      Well not necessarily !
      Bradley is quoting “power” , not capacity, and the battery installer ..Magellan.. clearly states it is a 1MW, ..500kWh battery.
      https://magellanpower.com.au/getattachment/Products/Renewable-Energy-and-Energy-Storage-Systems/Utility-Scale-Energy-Storage/Utility-Scale-Energy-Storage-Brochure.pdf

      00

  • #
    el gordo

    Uh Oh …

    ‘A massive renewable energy export development in the Pilbara has been declared “clearly unacceptable” by the federal environment minister due to its impact on threatened migratory species and internationally recognised wetlands.

    ‘Sussan Ley’s ruling means the proponents of the $50bn Asian renewable energy hub will need to significantly revamp their plans if the development is to go ahead. They argue it could revolutionise the production of hydrogen globally by showing it can be created at an affordable price using solar and windpower.’ (Guardian)

    60

  • #
    yarpos

    Noticed today Aldi claiming to have completed it “transition to renewables” stating that they now use 100% renewable electricity. Notice the word “use”

    The is the same self delusion as the ACT. What they use is whatever the grid provides which is mostly coal and gas power. The have installed some solar panels, have retail contacts and play games with certificates but what they actually use is still whatever the grid provides.

    I guess distortion of reality has always been a senior management specialty.

    110

    • #
      PeterS

      Call it for what they are – liars.

      80

    • #
      Dennis

      Ask Aldi executives to prove their claim, are the business units connected to the electricity grid and if so how can they identify renewable energy business sources of supply into those premises?

      Most of the electricity here comes from power stations, most of them fossil fuelled generator units.

      Go woke, go broke.

      50

    • #
      clarence.t

      Its amazing how many companies get “100% renewable” when there is no wind at night.

      In winter on a still day they must only operate from about 10am – 2pm,

      …. and close down when its also overcast…. is that correct?

      50

      • #
        Dennis

        My home electricity supply is apparently renewable, on Saturday night the lights went out at 6.00 pm until 9.00 pm when it was electricity was renewed.

        lol

        30

      • #
        Ronin

        They must have an electronic ‘ filter’ on the mains to separate the black coal electrons from the blue wind ones at night time.

        20

      • #
        PeterS

        What they really mean is it’s 100% renewable say 5% of the time. It’s like saying the salt I use on my food is 100% salt. Of course in reality I’m not just eating salt.

        10

      • #
        TdeF

        The only thing Green about ‘renewables’ is the endless river of cash. Nothing else is achieved. As for the reduction of world CO2, no one cares about that at all. And everyone can agree on a meaningless objective some 30 years away, when all those who agree are retired or dead. What do they care?

        50

        • #
          TdeF

          Perhaps they can agree, on our behalf, to zero human carbon output by 2100? No life on earth but still plenty of CO2, all of it.

          30

          • #
            TdeF

            Why not send all our cash to China today so we can get back to the BBQs? At least it will mean no ugly windfarms, transmission lines and solar panels. There’s some benefit in just handing over the cash. No one cares about CO2. Certainly not the Chinese or the politicians. No one even talks about what benefit there will be in 2050?

            20

    • #
      Richard Owen No.3

      They should be careful. The ACT was doing that but when the wholesale price of electricity dropped (as did the value of RET Certificates) so – somehow – the ACT had to raise the cost of electricity.

      30

  • #
    TdeF

    It is noticeable that no one is talking about Global Warming any more. Nor about carbon taxes. Or Climate Change as such.
    It is all about carbon neutrality by 2050, as if it is something on which the whole world agrees, all right thinking people agree and I presume even the Chinese Communist Party agrees. In the meantime we are not supposed to use petrol or coal or even natural gas, farm cattle, fly or even use petrol in our cars by 2030 (UK).

    Now what part of that makes any sort of sense, except to a fifty something politician? No more arguments. Just hand over the cash. Who needs science or justification or facts any more. It’s as if the Polar bears don’t matter. And they are in historic high numbers at an estimated 50,000 8 foot tall and up to one 1 ton killing machines. So cute. Consider the arctic for your next holiday.

    70

    • #
      Uber

      ‘Covid’ followed the same trajectory. Nobody talks about the ‘health system’ anymore (as if it was ever under threat in the first place – the original fake myth). Now we simply have lock-downs and border closures whenever there is a positive blood test. The reason? Covid, and SHUTUP. Because there is a Covid industry, and because lock-downs are helping to destroy us.
      It is our contemporary form of socialism – nothing more. Crush the human spirit, destroy all of the institutions, and once everything is gone and we are all ruined, UTOPIA.

      20

  • #

    Sorry for OT !

    Charité examines new therapeutic approach in clinical study

    Pespective press release:
    Researchers at the German Center for Infection Research (DZIF) at the Charité – Universitätsmedizin Berlin and the University of Bonn have analyzed how SARS-CoV-2 reprograms the metabolism of the host cell in its favor. As they report in the journal Nature Communications*, they were able to identify four active substances that inhibit the multiplication of the virus in cells: the body’s own substances spermin and spermidine, the experimental cancer drug MK-2206 and the tapeworm agent niclosamide. Whether niclosamide also proves to be effective against COVID-19 in humans is now being investigated by the Charité in a clinical study.

    The idea isn’t new:
    UNION Therapeutics: niclosamide against COVID-19

    What’s interesting,” he adds, “is that niclosamide works on the host cell, not the virus, so it’s difficult for the virus to develop resistance. We’re very confident with the developments. We should be ready to announce patient study initiation soon. This could be the perfect stockpiling product and can be easily scaled to cover all of Europe. Ultimately this can help to avoid lockdowns and the economic disasters we’ve seen.”

    Plausible mechanisms of Niclosamide as an antiviral agent against COVID-19

    Corona virus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic caused 18 440 deaths world wide as of 25 March 2020 and posing a serious threat to public health. There is a need, therefore, for effective therapeutic strategies to cure this disease. However, high attrition rates, substantial costs and slow pace are the major limitations of novel drug discovery. Drug repurposing, by employing ‘old’ drugs to treat ‘new’ diseases is an attractive approach in drug discovery. Niclosamide (NIC) is an approved anti-helminthic drug with diverse antiviral mechanisms. In this work we hypothesize, the potential antiviral mechanisms of NIC against COVID-19.

    20

  • #
    CHRIS

    Hey Krishna…this is NOT a Covid-19 topic. Get with the program…if you want to rave on about this virus, then place your comments in an appropriate topic, and stop wasting this website’s valuable time and space.

    00

    • #

      That’s why I wrote “sorry for OT
      I’m certainely not the first nor the last to post s.th. new in the actual thread to be read.

      10

      • #
        Richard Owen No.3

        Possibly you should not say “sorry” but just post your piece, that way CHRIS isn’t alerted.
        And if Joanne thinks so, she can always move your post to a new thread.

        10