By Joanne Nova
The Liberals doing their best to silence themselves.
Setting symbolic “targets” is not just a PR victory, and “jobs for the Green team” but a big blanket of silence conservatives stuck on themselves. By setting a public target, even if there is zero chance of it reducing CO2, being legislated, or reducing world temperatures by one thousandth of a degree, the most important win for the Green Blob is how it stops conservatives from pointing out the stupid flaws of the Carbonistas. By default it silences half the political machine in Australia and stops voters from getting a choice at the ballot box. Let’s all vote for One Party Democracy comrades!
This announcement carefully deprives the Liberals and National Parties of a key weapon in the up-coming-election, making sure they can’t win another 90 seat majority like Tony Abbott did without being able to criticize the Labor policies with killer one-liners.
They can’t mock the delusions they are aiming for themselves.
Changing Global Weather isn’t free you know. But wait… now it is!
The Labor Party think they can use windmills to stop the storms, but Liberals do too. The sensible half can’t accuse the Labor party of having delusional fantasies of trying to control the weather because there is no sensible half. They can’t say the Climate Models are failing, the predictions are junk, or that Australia has always had fires, floods and droughts and heatwaves all through our history.
They also can’t say that great new technology will fund itself because it’s useful, efficient and competitive. Remember how the government had to put in a Mobile Phone Target in 1992 so everyone would give up their landlines? Yeah, me neither. Only junk new tech needs ongoing forced subsidies, symbolic fantasy targets and mandates.
It’s a small consolation that the Morrison Government won’t legislate the “Net Zero” fantasy, but possibly only because they couldn’t get that grandiose nonsense through the House. So a tiny sliver of democracy remains, thanks to the fear felt by Liberal and National members who may lose their seats to One Nation, United Australia Party and Katter.
There might be a hung parliament, according to Bob Katter, at least five coal mining seats up for grabs in Queensland.
https://www.northqueenslandregister.com.au/story/7464047/zero-votes-in-net-zero-katter/
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I beg to differ. It’s not zero votes in net zero. It’s worse than that. Net Zero! Liberal Policy! You’ve lost my vote and I’m not alone in that sentiment. Could Morrison do worse than Kirkup in the last WA State Election? Perhaps not, but he sure is trying hard….
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Unfortunately we have a divide – electorally, in which city constituents have different priorities to rural working people. These urban electorates are detached from realities ” beyond the pale” as it were but they make up a lot of seats and hence dictate a certain political reality. Most here(jonova) are Tertiary educated and many have higher honours but we are regarded as the ignorant unwashed.
D
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Yes, there is hope. The lunacy coming from the political left is a global phenomenon that transcends net zero. Across the world, freedom loving people, even those who thought they were aligned with the left, are starting to see past the shallow emotional platitudes and hollow rhetoric used to support the destructive Marxist policies.
The coming red wave in America could spill over elsewhere, especially if it’s as large as it looks like it could be. The rest of the world will certainly take notice when the Americans wholeheartedly reject the Socialist brand of Marxism the left is pursuing by taking control of Congress away from the left in 2021 and re-electing Trump, or a Trump supported candidate, in 2022.
The radical left in America, including the MSM, misread the election and thought that their malfeasance that put Biden in power had given them a mandate to push a radical anti-American agenda when all it did was stoke division with hate.
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One compounding factor in the US is that their elections are easily subverted.
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Having everything going through computers and the internet is reliant on electricity.
When that is shut down totally for an extended period of time, everything is erased and lost including banking, investments, identification, ownership, laws, restrictions and regulations. When our politicians governments and their security isn’t getting their paychecks, they desert the sinking ship.
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It is quite obvious that our politicians today really no clue of what reality is and just following someone’s orders which I’d presume is our bankers who have the greatest amount of wealth with the greatest amount of protection and security from our governments the way this system is currently set up.
Reality is catching up with this system and infrastructure failures are imminent which means the internet is on borrowed time right now and could fail at anytime.
Our politicians seem to think that the system will reset and just investments will be effected and everything will be reset back to everything restarting new again with communication and everything else unaffected. That’s why they are putting on this shit show that we currently are living in.
As the supply chain infrastructure is showing us currently, the politicians policies are totally crashing the system beyond repair and any vital parts needed will not be available as this system is decades old and many parts are not made anymore.
The internet is decades of advances and complex programming accumulated over these years.
Any major disconnection or disruptions could totally wiped out all that advances in programming that runs everything today.
A major internet outage would wipe everything gone on this system and platform.
This is satellites and communication as well. Everything on the internet wiped and needing instructions to restart.
This is the avenue that I currently see that is coming by our politicians ignorance to reality.
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One of the nice things about reality is that everybody has their own. Except of course for objective reality and there’s not that much call for that these days.
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Hyperinflation is knocking on the door https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/australias-2y-bond-just-blew-after-central-bank-unexpectedly-refused-buy-it. That’s sure to fix the climate emergency eh.
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Does hyperinflation cause hyperprecipitation and crashing temperatures as well? Your BoM has all the meta-data you need: today Friday 29 October –
Tasmania: Snow to 600 m, 0°C max
Victoria: Snow to 1,000 m, -3°C min
NSW: Snow to 1,700 m, -5°C overnight
Who knew banks controlled the weather too.
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Doing better than the UN:
Climate agreements % Atmospheric CO2
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzBHemZUYAEIhYc?format=jpg&name=900×900
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Should be:
Climate agreements & Atmospheric CO2
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Tony Heller has an updated version of that graph with ‘Glasgow’ sitting atop the hokey-shtick pile of failed, free-lunch con-gatherings. Hope little Jimmy Shaw doesn’t catch a cold – or worse! – during his visit to ye olde chilly Caledonia next week.
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Climate change has produced a Unity Ticket. Labor is riding high at 54% and Coalition 46%.
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“Climate change has produced a Unity Ticket. Labor is riding high at 54% and Coalition 46%”
The blame for that lies squarely with the hide-bound, backward looking, neanderthal Conservatives who are so utterly mentally inflexible that they cannot see which way the wind is blowing. Many liberals are aware that CO2 emissions from humans burning fossil fuels probably don’t cause 100% of global temperature increase but are equally aware that burning fossil fuels probably does have some effect on the global temperature. This is in direct contrast to the thinking of the afore mentioned Conservatives whose minds are utterly fossilised and think climate change is a scam.
Surely even the thickest skulled Conservative is able to realise that the volte face of News Corp and Peter Dutton who now support zero emissions by 2050, is a major shift in opinion?
Has it still not sunk into Conservatives’ thinking that a little give and take with the climate alarmists could well be very productive?
The link below is to a presentation by Judith Curry a week ago. She doesn’t put up barricades or jeer at climate doubters but presents a rational argument that is well balanced and thought provoking for both Climate Activists and Climate Doubters.
Perhaps someone in Australia can give a similar presentation. But I doubt it. If my doubts are realised the Conservatives will rue the day because the movement in Australia is toward reducing emissions. Commenters here might like to consider that. But again I very much doubt they will.
https://judithcurry.com/2021/10/22/challenges-of-the-clean-energy-transition/
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There is no little give and take with the climate alarmists.
Generally alarmists think that 100% of warming is caused by CO2 emissions.
Generally alarmists think that 2050 is way too far away and we only have a decade (for the third or fourth time) to save the planet.
But, most of all, generally alarmists think that capitalism is evil and severing the arteries of capitalism (ceasing fossil fuel use) is more important than any climate issue.
If alarmists would accept nuclear as an option for power generation then the debate would pretty much end for the power generation side of things. Alarmists general refusal to accept nuclear as the reliable means of phasing out fossil fuels just proves they’re alarmists and/or activists and not genuinely believing in the crisis they claim exists.
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“that a little give and take with the climate alarmists could well be very productive”
Supporting a lie… productive ????
Leftism.. writ-large.!
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If the `Conservatives don’t try for a little give and take the ALP will be in government for at least three terms. Morrison is on a wafer thin majority and the majority not only of voters and but also LNP MPs want lower emissions so it is incumbent on make every effort to placate voters and his colleagues. Hopefully the likes of Canavan and Abetz and Christensen and Kelly will, like Abbott, be voted out.
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So are suggesting they support a lie to placate your leftist agendas.
How leftist of you.!
There are no leftist every going to vote Liberals.. and now the realist won’t either.
It is the support for these leftist fallacies that will destroy the Liberal Party.
That is why Tony Abbott got such a huge majority… he was a realist.
He was undermined by the slithering leftists like Turnbull etc, not by an election of the people.
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Wouldn’t it be refreshing, and perhaps even effective, if people like Ian could make their point without implying, or outright stating, those who have a different opinion are somehow mentally deficient, mentally below them. I read many news sites daily and this is the theme on all of them. Attacks on the mental capacity, name calling, etc. If you have a valid point to make, make it. When you start with the attacks, I know you are very insecure in your position. Similar to talking with someone that curses continually in an effort to intimidate you into seeing things their way.
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Ian has written 23 lines, but said nothing about the topic.
Wet Mountains, in only 9 lines, expresses his very perceptive summary of that “contribution”.
If only our “contributor” could think that clearly.
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kkk LOUDOUN COUNTY, VA—In an attempt to calm angry parents, 3rd-grade teacherKK
https://balance10.blogspot.com/2021/10/loudoun-county-vain-attempt-to-calm.html
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?
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you got that right
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You write
“Ian has written 23 lines, but said nothing about the topic.”
Once again you fail to read the comment to which I was referring
el+gordo wrote “Climate change has produced a Unity Ticket. Labor is riding high at 54% and Coalition 46%”
It was that to which I was referring not some other topic
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It should be about the science and as you are aware its very political.
We have lost the debate on energy, but the real game has just begun. What caused global warming at the time of Christ?
https://notrickszone.com/2021/10/28/new-data-suggest-greenlands-relative-sea-levels-were-6-meters-higher-1500-2000-years-ago/
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“Wouldn’t it be refreshing, and perhaps even effective, if people like Ian could make their point without implying, or outright stating, those who have a different opinion are somehow mentally deficient, mentally below them. I read many news sites daily and this is the theme on all of them. Attacks on the mental capacity, name calling, etc.”
What blatant hypocris when many commenters here refer to leftist idiots and lefty morons. Perhaps you should read Matthew 7:5.
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Ian, this is off topic, but maybe Jo will let it stand. I read my Bible daily. I pray on my knees at least twice a day. I pray for forgiveness for the evil deeds I have done in my life. Matthew Chapter 5 is about judging your fellow man. We can both pull verses at random, and out of context, in an attempt to make our points, but that will accomplish little. I cannot justify my bad behavior by pointing to your bad behavior. I can only do my best to not behave badly and hope that others will do the same. Join me.
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It’s an old problem.
https://joannenova.com.au/2012/01/dr-david-evans-the-skeptics-case/#comment-937895
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I had no idea Jo had been around that long. Couldn’t find 937895, but over 700 comments, that is amazing.
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Thanks for the memories… includes a contribution from a “skeptic” who managed to get banned from all sites for spamming with unscientific nonsense… I mean hardcore spamming.
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Like Gee Aye thanks for the memories. I’m fairly sure, from a comment we both received from Jo some years ago, that you and I joined in 2012 when this site dealt much more with science and much less with politics than is currently the case
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Or in the case of DC, the “science”.
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The link takes a while to load. Eric is the writer.
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“I cannot justify my bad behavior by pointing to your bad behavior.”
Don’t do so then.
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Eric S
January 25, 2012 at 2:35 pm
This is topic of real interest to me. And I was here ~ a couple months ago and found a rich reward in intelligent comments, from a skeptics point of view, to read.
There is now a dilution of the quality of comments caused by all these warmist trolls pushing their disruptive bs. I gave up reading because there was so much warmist trollip. We understand that their are warmists that have other points of view, but we don’t come to a skeptic site to hear that.
Skeptic comments apparently rarely or never get allowed onto the warmist sites. Skeptics and warmists can fight it out at neutral sites. Why compromise our sites for the sake of warmists? Just my opinion.
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What is a “CO2 emission”? CO2, is CO2, is CO2 which is a gas. This Planet has always had Climate Change. So, just do what Mother Nature has been doing all along – Adapt or die……..This is a far cheaper approach than the very expensive BS that is going on now.
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Again we see the sheep-like call to “what-other-people-are-doing-and-thinking”
Its as though rational thought based on real science had no importance.
Its only the opinion of the propaganda-washed masses that matters to him.
Hasn’t he yet realised that if you give an inch.. they want a mile more, always.
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“so utterly mentally inflexible”
Indeed. This is some accusation coming from a member of the group thinking that a change of opinion by a news corporation, political party, or spokesperson somehow alters physics, chemistry, biology, human behavior or basic economics.
Would you consider me “inflexible” because I refuse to reconsider (for the thousandth time) the second law of thermodynamics?
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By “flexible” he means kow-towing to the anti-science of the AGW meme…. or else. !
Cannot find any real science to support that AGW meme…
… but totally “believes/accepts” it because all the propaganda-washed masses “believe”.
Ruled by the propaganda masses… sad.
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“Would you consider me “inflexible” because I refuse to reconsider (for the thousandth time) the second law of thermodynamics?”
Of course not. But if you refuse to recognise the significance to the politics of climate change by the change in attitude of News Corp and Peter Dutton then, yes, I do consider that inflexible because it ignores reality
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Judith Curry’s presentation was pragmatic and sensible – not alarmist, grasping nonsense. I don’t know what you took from it.
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It’s hard to take anything in when you’re listening to heavy rock on the headphones and have both eyes shut.
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“Judith Curry’s presentation was pragmatic and sensible – not alarmist, grasping nonsense. I don’t know what you took from it.”
Perhaps, like KK you didn’t understand what I wrote which was
The link below is to a presentation by Judith Curry a week ago. She doesn’t put up barricades or jeer at climate doubters but presents a rational argument that is well balanced and thought provoking for both Climate Activists and Climate Doubters.
Which bit of “but presents a rational argument that is well balanced and thought provoking for both Climate Activists and Climate Doubters.
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SkS
https://joannenova.com.au/2021/10/conservatives-commit-to-hiding-all-their-best-election-slogans-net-zero-mocking-of-witchdoctor-policies/#comment-2485714
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Take your pick.
The passtimes of the hyper “educated”
https://youtu.be/xyjm5VQ11TQ
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Possibly the least persuasive thing you have ever written Ian, apart of course from persuading people that there is nothing to be gained by engaging you.
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“apart of course from persuading people that there is nothing to be gained by engaging you.”
Why are you engaging with me then? Please don’t.
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Be a better troll. Somewhere else.
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You stated there is nothing to be gained by engaging with me yet you continue to do so.
Why do you persist?
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See above.
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Remember 2010 when Labor Prime Minister Gillard was forced by the Opposition Leader Abbott Coalition Opposition to form a minority alliance government?
Be very careful what to wish for because Labor have the Greens support before approaching other elected candidates.
The preferential voting system favours the major political parties.
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I’m confused. What “conservatives” are we talking about? Australia has no major conservative parties. The Liberals and Nationals ceased being conservative decades ago.
The Lib/Nats are only slightly less bad than Green Labor.
Both parties are committed to unlimited government spending.
Both are high taxing and regulating.
Lib/Nats seem slightly more committed to traditional family values but not significantly so.
Both are committed to the promotion of people based on gender, sxual orientation or race rather than merit.
Both are committed to useless “green” energy.
The Lib/Nats selected nuclear submarines after wasting a large amount on the diesel submarine project. Labor woukd have committed Australia to diesel submarines, useless when dealing with China.
Lib/Nats are slightly more aware of the Chi-comm push for world domination. Labor supports the world domination of the Chi-comms.
Both parties are strong supporters of the globalist at the UN and WHO and associated organisations.
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I am not sure what the term “conservative” means.
To me every man has a duty to think for themselves. I enjoy reading a wide range of perspectives. To imagine that there is a unified conservative philosophy is a contradiction in terms.
I can only conclude that the proper use of the term signifies a broad philosophical pattern.
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But there’s a big difference between “every man having a duty to think for themselves” and collectively then voting for leaders to make decisions on our behalf.
WE only get one vote and at the moment that is delivering the same big government/wokey outcomes in the name of virtue-signalling.
It must be time to split up this cozy big-party oligopoly (see the OEDC glossary definition of the term)
They say: “In general, there are two broad approaches to this problem. The first is to assume that firms behave cooperatively. That is, they collude in order to maximize joint monopoly profits. The second is to assume that firms behave independently or non-cooperatively.”
Methinks we need just a little more of the second approach. Too many political “deals” that compromise the basic integrity, Barnaby.
I was going to promote a vote for Nats but now will seek out and support Independents. (At least they are a bit like Independent company directors).
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I am seriously considering voting for UAP even though I’m not particularly keen on Clive. His past antics were I endearing however his action in importing a stockpile of ivermectin (which the authorities subsequently destroyed) and his party’s stance on mandatory vaccinations go a long way to redeem him, at least in my view.
Re our current Government I have come to the view we should agree to anything asked of us at COP26 on the sole proviso that every other nation baying for us to cooperate meet their own commitments. I’m fairly certain we would then be sitting pretty at least until 2100.
If we really wanted to double down on this approach, I’d suggest rolling hard six and suspend all coal and iron ore shipments to China. We would almost immediately reduce humanity’s carbon dioxide emissions at least for a while. We’d finally separate our trade from an aggressive communist state and totally screw their economy as they’ve attempted to screw ours. We’d also give the rest of the world an incentive to restart or ramp up their own industries as they’d be forced to varying their supply chains away from China.
Of course this will never happen. We’re in the economic equivalent of Stockholm syndrome.
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Us too. But I think it was hydroxychloroquine that he imported.
More than 70,000 others do too.
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As with everything else in life if you are going to suspend all coal and iron ore shipments to China then you should prepare for the natural consequences.
To me it is all about the nation shaping its own destiny. China has done that effectively with as yet unknown consequences. Australia has played its status of the luck country again with as yet unknown consequences.
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Liberal or Labor, Australians need to get used to answering to
ihre papiere, bitte.
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https://youtu.be/CsO1KwF64Ow
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VictoriaStan under Dictator for Life Dan Andrews.
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I think I said this before.
What have the Liberals now got that would cause any voter, conservative or otherwise, to choose Liberal rather than Labor ?
Leftists will always vote Labor, Greens or worse
There are no votes to be won from the left with these idiotic policies.
And plenty of votes to be lost from the center and center-right who will turn in droves to fledgling conservative, center-right parties like UAP, One Nation etc.
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Agree.
Unfortunately, the deserting conservative citizen’s votes will be spread among those smaller conservative parties which means no single one of them gets enough votes.
In the past I voted for major parties for that reason, but this time I don’t care. I’ll vote for the party with policies that mostly align with my values, regardless of what I feel the outcome will be.
The nationals should have deserted LNP when they saw the signs of them moving (rather quickly) to the left – then we may have had a large, strong, conservative party worth supporting.
It’s a mess that may take another war to fix.
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The more Conservatives that move to UAP or PHON or Katter the better as it will purge the Liberal party of the Conservative millstone that has dragged it down since 2013. With Abbott gone, thank the good Lord, and Dutton moving to support zero emissions, perhaps, at long last, the rabid right will be decimated and replaced with a truly Liberal government.
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Ian wants two far-left main parties.
The only thing that will ever satisfy the rabid far-left is when they have no opponent and everybody is forced to think to their will.
They want to bring all of society down into the regressive gutter that the far-left represents.
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You are more perceptive than I am clarence. I can’t even figure out if Ian himself knows what he wants.
At best I’d say he needs a cup of tea and a good lie down. Just look at the level of hate he demonstrates. That can’t be good for him.
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Just another pompous academic who has spent far too much of his life in leftist institutions.
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There is a viewppint thst conservatives should join the Liberal Party and try to bring it back to its roots but I think the Party is too far gone for this.
Liberals essentially believe in nothing and are no more than the blind and clueless leading other blind and clueless.
The only point in being a member is as a source of slave labour to distribute election materials prior to elections for the benefit of sitting members.
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Added to the “net zero” farce, our wonderful government has procured another round of fake vaccine so that we can all have a booster. Now why would we need that if the jab was already saving us from the fake pandemic?
The figures to 01 October 2021 from the US VAERS shows that:
16,314 US citizens have died from the jab so far,
75,605 have required hospitalization,
23,712 now have permanent disabilities,
17,619 have had a life threatening adverse reaction, and
30,631 have had allergic reactions.
Surely no one in Australia is going to vote for a government that provides that sort of ‘care’, once they hear those figures.
Oh! Of course, neither the Government nor the media are telling them.
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Updated figures here … https://openvaers.com/covid-data
Three things to point out:
* Roughly four hundred million doses given in the USA so far, meaning the VAERS numbers are still a very small percentage overall. That’s no comfort to the people who did get hurt.
* The VAERS numbers are under-reported but highly arguable how much. Estimates vary greatly.
* Long term effects remain completely unknown.
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Naturally our Government is having us all jabbed for our own benefit. The essence of science is experimentation and what better way than to experiment on the whole population. That way the medical researchers should find out all of the possible side-effects of the mRNA gene therapy. It already looks as though there will be plenty of bodies for them to carve up to find out which organs are responding to the gene therapy.
This should not be a problem for the industry as I have read that something called a ‘Cell line’ is used in the manufacture of the drug. These require living human tissues to create the cell line. Apparently these come from aborted fetuses where the fetus is removed by caesarean section and is cut up while still alive.
Just imagine it, somewhere in the world there may be women and men who have been injected with the fake COVID19 vaccine containing cells from their own culled offspring.
Isn’t medical science wonderful !
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Medical science certainly has questions to answer, but if you like sausages whatever you do don’t look too closely at how they are made.
As a child I used to enjoy what was then called black pudding. Only in later years did I learn what I had been eating.
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Thanks Jo, that’s a very clear and concise statement of where we’re at.
The only evident solution is to vote in enough of the non laba-greens-libl independents, but that’s a hard task.
Are we really done for.
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If by “Are we really done for?” If you are referring to the Conservatives then hopefully. yes, you are as the sooner the Conservatives leave the LNP the better for Australia,
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Then we can be a far-left regressive marxist utopia, fit for those who voted for it.
Will we love living like North Korea or Venezuela… I doubt it.
We can join the US under Biden in the race to the very bottom rung of human existence.
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Conservative? Nahh, Libertarian,son unlike Left/Trotskyist types.
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“We” is the trusting average hard working taxpayer.
I have little time or admiration for either the Australian Liberal parti or the Australian Laba parti.
Both groups are totally focused on looking after themselves.
I also find the terms left, right and conservative a poor substitute for the reality where there is Corruption going at full throttle across the spectrum.
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“sooner the Conservatives leave the LNP “
Then the sooner there will be no LNP…
… and a proper Conservative party will arise..
… one not tainted by the regressive clayton’s-leftist LINOs.
Australia may then be able to claw back some of the humanity and progress it has lost under weak-kneed, left-leaning, woke, suckophantic drones like Turnbull and Morrison.
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Voting out one set of politicians indebted to the central bankers in favour of another set of politicians indebted to the same central bankers is not going to improve our plight… maybe we need to get rid of the central bankers?
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I’d encourage those engaged in politics to think longer term. There might be great benefit to taking consistent but unelectable positions for a generation.
Start with a commitment to halving government bureaucracy for example. Or building a manufacturing base. Or auditing the wealth of all politicians and public servants before they enter and after they leave office.
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It’s very simple: adding radiative gases to our radiatively cooled atmosphere cannot reduce our radiatively cooled atmosphere’s cooling ability.
If you believe in
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If you believe in the AGW conjecture, you have bought into the idea that the net effect of all energy exchange between the ocean and atmosphere is to warm the oceans not cool them.
This was not smart.
Yes, that’s a bitter pill. Lukewarmers were not smart.
312K surface Tav without radiative gases in the atmosphere. Current surface Tav: 288K.
Yet as I rage against the lukewarmers, who in their fear, emboldened and enabled the liars, I’m still glad you exist, misguided as you are.
Imagine how much worse this plandemic would be without scientifically literate sceptics.
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I believe that politicians have no idea what NET-zero emissions really means. ScoMo talks about carbon capture and green hydrogen like they are the heroes of the “Save the Planet” cult. When greedy billionares like Twiggy Forrest are pushing this new ” green revolution” , you know that the Earth is in serious trouble.
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The earth is in no trouble at all.
It may be that humanity is in trouble but it has had an awfully good run. And if you subscribe to the comedy of the late George Carlin the only reason for the existence of humanity is that the forces of nature needed plastic.
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Global surface temperature will continue to rise until net greenhouse gas emissions are reduced to zero. This is why most countries are making a commitment of Net Zero around 2050. Australia can’t be an outlier because it will result in yet more trade restrictions. The Morrison “plan” relies solely on unspecified technological improvement. Given there is little serious intention to change the structure of energy generation to non-CO2 polluting renewables, it is presumably relying on yet to be discovered carbon capture technologies. Planting trees is one way but that locks up ever increasing quantities of land.
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“Global surface temperature will continue to rise until net greenhouse gas emissions are reduced to zero.”
LOL, again with this AGW nonsense, which you have totally failed to produce any real scientific evidence for.
Its really becoming quite funny watching your antics. 🙂
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There are thousands of papers. A few of the more prominent:
Arrhenius On the Influence of Carbonic Acid in the Air upon the Temperature of the Ground (1896)
Callendar, G. S., Quart. J. Roy. Met. Soc., 66, 395 (1940)
Manabe, S., and Wetherald, R. T., J. Atmos. Sci., 24, 241 (1967)
Sawyer J.S., Man-made Carbon Dioxide and the “Greenhouse” Effect Nature volume 239, pages23–26 (1972)
Charney et. al. Carbon Dioxide and Climate: A Scientific Assessment (1979) https://www.bnl.gov/envsci/schwartz/charney_report1979.pdf
Hansen et. al. Global climate changes as forecast by Goddard Institute for Space Studies three‐dimensional model https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1029/JD093iD08p09341
The reason there is currently 20,000 people in Glasgow determining the future of energy generation is that there is nobody anymore who does not accept that greenhouse gases affect the climate.
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“There are multiple thousands of papers. A few of the more prominent:
Arrhenius On the Influence of Carbonic Acid in the Air upon the Temperature of the Ground (1896)
Besides the date, which should ring a few bells, it is well documented that Arrhenius later conceded that this was wrong.
Eighteen ninety six. 1 8 9 6.
Since which time man has learnt to fly and even walked on the moon.
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and it emerged later that Arrhenius was basically correct. Einstein wrote seminal papers on relativity and the quantum effect in 1905 and they turned out to be correct as well.
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Wrong.. the only thing he showed was that CO2 was a radiative gas.
That was about all he got correct.
Warming comment was supposition only, which he later retracted.
Still thinking that is proof of warming by CO2 …. that’s funny.
[SNIP]
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Angstrom repudiated Arrhenius by noting that there was no subtraction of the effect of water vapour, the dominant greenhouse gas responsible for heating effects orders of magnitude above all other members of the greenhouse gases group combined.
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Arrhenius also worked with enclosed glass cylinders.
None of what he did had anything to do with free atmospheric CO2.
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and it turned out that Arrhenius was correct and Ångström was wrong:
https://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/06/a-saturated-gassy-argument
https://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/06/a-saturated-gassy-argument-part-ii/
These arguments were settled 100 years ago. let’s move on.
04
LOL, you have just shown everyone that CO2 absorption only matters in the upper atmosphere where there is no H2O.
ie..where it radiates to space.
Well done. 🙂
https://i.postimg.cc/W1RTd8Vy/Stratospheric_cooling.jpg
Given that the mean free path in the lower atmosphere is some 10-30m there is no evidence that there any warming effect from CO2.. period.. you have yet to produce, what cannot exist…
It is clearly shown that anything absorbed by CO2 band is expelled through the much wider atmospheric window.
https://i.postimg.cc/50scywD8/radiative_change_2.jpg
You really need to go and learn some basic energy transfer principles. 😉
1) radiative heat transfer requires a thermal gradient. ie it is a product of a thermal gradient.
2) gravity provides a thermal gradient as part of containment.
3) radiative heat transfer, if significant, reduces the thermal gradient by cooling the warmer body and heating the cooler.
4) if radiative heat transfer is insufficient to modify the gradient it remains a ‘product’.
There is no evidence that the tropospheric thermal gradient is modified in any way, globally averaged, by long wave radiation. The lower troposphere is in exact energy balance with 7.5km, despite the bulk of long wave opacity ‘heat trapping rubbish’ being below.
Scentific comprehension is your friend.. try it some day !
50
It should also be noted that Pierrehumbert has been proven wrong by reality on basically any climate prediction he has ever made.
His comments are a litany of discredited arguments.
00
The papers you linked to have just baseless supposition in them, no proof.
Either that or based on assumption driven models.
models are never scientific proof of anything.
Charney.. in 1979, models were little more than a children’s game.. and they haven’t progressed much since then
and Hansen, seriously….. wrong on basically everything the poor Homer-like activist fabricated.
You are still batting a big fat zero
Seems you are basically clueless about what scientific evidence actually is. !!
20
ps.. you do know that the only one of Hansen’s “models” that gets anywhere close to real measured temperatures is the zero increase in CO2 scenario.
What does that tell you about how little CO2 really affects the atmospheric temperature?
Logic and reason may need to come into your answer.. do at least try. 😉
20
Clarence,
You wouldn’t by chance be male, politically conservative, have a social dominance orientation, and endorse system-justifying ideologies? 🙂
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0191886920304268
14
Only Simon would link to a psycho-logy paper from someone with zero comprehension of science, physics, maths or basically anything real..
… as proof of CO2 warming !
10
Boy you can sure pick ’em Simon, one of the authors is named Wokje; briefly I wondered if I’d lit upon a BabylonBee skit.
50
The very fact that you are citing suppositional papers from back before satellite data existed, shows just how little you have to back up your fantasies.
The fact you think they actually contain scientific proof of CO2 warming is quite telling. 😉
50
Have you heard of a thermometer? Satellites use tropospheric irradiance as a proxy for temperature. Data still has to be calibrated with thermometers.
12
“Data still has to be calibrated with thermometers.”
Speaking of calibrating.. UAH trend-matches the only pristine surface data set in the world, as well as matching the data from balloons.
https://i.postimg.cc/262TTH10/USCRN-2016.png
This sampling calibration proves that UAH is accurate and since it covers some 97-98% of the globe is the only worthwhile global temperature data available.
UAH shows very clearly that the warming in the satellite era has only come in two small steps at the non-CO2 forced El Ninos, basically zero-trend between.
https://i.postimg.cc/brjZmpSZ/UAH_World_Land_zero.jpg
Data also shows that there is no energy being trapped in the atmosphere.
The small amount absorbed in a tiny sliver by increased CO2 is funneled through the much wider atmospheric window
https://i.postimg.cc/50scywD8/radiative_change_2.jpg
Radiative forcing has also gone up in step to drive that temperature.. CO2 could not do that.
https://i.postimg.cc/QM37jYjT/Radiative-forcing-in-steps.jpg
OLR is also controlled only by atmospheric temperature.
https://i.postimg.cc/MK5vb4VS/UAH-ERBS-no-trend.jpg
There is absolutely zero evidence that any of the warming in the satellite era has been caused by atmospheric CO2.
Solar and cloud forcing have been the main drivers.
https://i.postimg.cc/FFDD8LWc/Solar_Proxy_paleo_BE.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/mDDNXwGS/cloud.jpg
note 1.. all these graphs are based on actual real data !!
note 2.. some people have great trouble comprehending basic data in graphic format.. their problem, not mine !
20
You really have to update your very limited knowledge base.
I suggest papers from Soon, Happer, Lindzen, Singer, Christy, Plimer, Carter, Idso, Connelly (father and son). Plenty more about.
Maybe you could get your science up to speed with reality……. or not.
10
Let’s go back to basics, Simon.
What evidence do you have that the increase in atmospheric CO2 is 1) of anthropogenic origin and 2) the concentration of this trace gas in the atmosphere can alter global mean temperatures and 3) that global mean temperatures have actually changed significantly. I am talking about using real data, not temperature records which have been invented, bearing in mind that until relatively recently the only reliable long duration temperature records were from North America, Europe Australia and South Africa.
190
Planting trees?
Tell him he’s making stuff up … dreaming …
“Rather than benefiting the environment, large scale tree planting may do the opposite, two new studies have found.
One paper says financial incentives to plant trees can back fire and reduce biodiversity with little impact on carbon (sic) emissions.
A seperate project found that the amount of carbon (sic) that new forests can absorb may be overestimated.”
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-53138178
97% science!
Settled.
80
I prefer the 97 natural CO2. Not the decrepit meme of scientific consensus.
50
Planting trees?
Tell him he’s making stuff up … dreaming …
Having driven multiple times around Australia (including the bit at the bottom normally left off Maps), one thing Australia does not lack is Trees.
60
THe choices between parties for the people at the next seems to be between the Liberal/Labor coalition and a plethora of smaller parties.
50
Politicians have always been and will continue to be simply clueless puppets on a string who have very little if any awareness of what’s happening in the real world, or if they do they are cowards who prefer to follow the path that maximises their chances of being re-elected. In either case, but especially the latter they are just career politicians. There are exceptions of course whereby the leader does know and is either evil to the core, such as Hitler and good people, such as Menzies. What can be done about it? Very little. The best we can do is send them a clear message we do not accept their antics by not allowing either major party to form government on their own right, and to support the better of the minor parties so they can force one of the tow major parties to change to meet our expectations. That would work very well in a perfect world but sadly this world is not perfect. One problem we face is most voters are just as bad if not worse than the leaders. We are in effect in a no win situation. The next federal election though might be a pleasant surprise as we do end up with a hung parliament provided the minor parties are true to their word and help to make a better ruling government. It’s all up to the voters as always is the case. Time will tell.
80
Politicians, none of them knows tomorrow’s firm policy; it was ever thus.
00
Climate change (lol) causes yet another record crop year in India !
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/10/28/climate-change-contributes-to-another-year-of-record-crop-production-in-india/
When will people wake up and realise that CO2 is absolutely beneficial to all life on this planet.
As the resident AGW trolls have shown time after time, there is absolutely no evidence it does anything except increase plant growth
No scientific evidence that it causes any warming at all.
This “net zero” meme is total nonsense, backed by nothing but politically contrived fake “climate” models and if it continues will mean the demise of western civilisation
Perhaps that is what the far-left think they want.. but they will suffer the dehumanising consequences just as much, if not more, as they bring society back into the wretched per-civilisation era.
Good luck running the inner city latte set with erratic, highly costly electricity supplies
Good luck delivering all those fancy delicacies that they spend their frivolous lives on when there are no fossil fuels.
If this nonsense continues, they will really reap what they have sown… good luck to them.
Maybe then they will wake up to the reality that they have been seriously duped.
80
ScoMo is off to blahblahblah to see the queen and to tell her the sky is falling in Australia.
ScoMo, Foxyloxy and Loosey Goosey have proof!
Severe thunderstorms hit 100% renewable powered South Australia
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-28/sa-severe-weather-warning-issued-for-adelaide-metro/100575378
ScamMo knows the science is on his side …
“August 3, 1562 a devastating thunderstorm hit Central Europe, damaging buildings, killing animals and destroying crops and vineyards.
The havoc caused by this natural disaster was so great, so unprecedented, that soon an unnatural origin for the storm was proposed.”
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/history-of-geology/medieval-witch-hunts-influenced-by-climate-change/
Prepare for a net zero stable climate and zero sea level rise any moment now.
90
The anti-fossil fuel meme is already starting to bite.
https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2021/10/28/michael-shellenberger-the-main-cause-of-energy-shortages-is-the-under-investment-in-oil-gas-exploration-driven-by-climate-activism/
Expect energy shortages throughout the world until investments swing back towards a functional level.
Energy shortages leads to shortages in many other areas such as food, transport, services etc etc
How will people react when they find they are forced to “do without” many of the thing they have been accustomed to.
The green dream reaps what it sows.
100
The single identifiable good thing that the Liberals did in recent decades is to decide to purchase nuclear subs but even that came at a price. 1) A huge contract exit fee, the amount not yet known and 2) presumably deals done that in order to get the subs Australia had to commit fully to the anthropogenic global warming fraud as Jo has reported.
120
Part of the problem is that in Australia there is no independent scientific advice that the government listens to.
The government will only listen to supposed “experts” in the universities or government research institutions.
Pretty well, if you are a “scientist” and work for one of those establishments today, it either means you are 1) incapable of independent thought and go along with “science by consensus” or 2) afraid of losing your job if you dare to state an alternate opinion to the “consensus science”.
100
Of course, all this started in 1967 with Rudi Dutschke’s “long march through the institutions”.
It took the Left just ~50 years to lay the foundation for the destruction of Western Civilisation.
140
And tragically the resolution seems to be imminent, say within six months, and we wonder which way it will fall.
70
Antonio Gramsci as far as I know started the long march through the Institutions plan. Acknowledging the traditional owners as opposed to Barry Humphries ackowledging the actual owners, the Pratt family.
20
“delusional fantasies of trying to control the weather because there is no sensible half. They can’t say the Climate Models are failing, “
So according to this blog, weather is climate
Mind you, as a caricature of logic and reason, it totally nails it
Heartland would be proud
114
“malocclusionalusional fantasies of trying to control the Virus because there is no sensible half. They can’t say the Covid Models are failing, “
So according to this hog, virus is primate.
Mind you, as a caricature of hogic and season, it totally nails it
Andrewsland would be proud as punch,
or kick, or shove, or a little “touch” with a batton.
70
What PF is saying is the AGW priests think they can control the climate… but not the weather.
Talk about a total lack of logic and reason !
80
Wrong Clarence,
Before you can apply logic and reason you need to understand what’s going on.
What’s missing first up is Comprehension.
50
logic, reason, understanding, comprehension….. strike 4 !
You really are asking too much of him.
30
baton
10
I’m astonished. Did you give any thought about what you said or did another fairy tap you on the shoulder.
40
“So according to this blog, weather is climate.”
Fact-check:
Nope. Not this blog, not Heartland.
“A few years ago, talking about weather and climate change in the same breathe was a cardinal sin for scientists.
Now it’s become impossible to have a conversation about the weather without discussing wider climate trends, according to researchers who prepared the Australian Climate Commission’s latest report.
Previously, “weather is not climate” was the mantra, but now the additional boost from greenhouse gases was influencing every event.”
Prof. Will Steffen, Australian Climate Commission
https://www.smh.com.au/environment/weather/trends-create-angry-summer-20130303-2fefl.html
File this under; low hanging fruit – cherries
30
I saw that too Peter, I can’t recall ever seeing anything quite so badly edited or confused as this on this blog
What is also weird is how the two terms are confused. Weather is dependent on climate but weather can’t easily be controlled but climate certainly can.
If I plant a tree that creates a shaded area of ground I have changed the climate on that piece of ground. It is as simple as that. When we build cities or clear ground we make measurable and sometimes substantial climate changes.
06
Very localised.. called a “micro-climate”.
Do you even comprehend the difference between a “micro-climate” and global climate ??
And yes, those urban micro-climates are very localised, but they influence the fabrication of the global surface temperature to a huge degree.
Thanks for bring that up.
10
typo correction bringing…
10
Urban micro climates are very localised, usually caused by U.H.I. effects in the built up inner suburban areas. Providing nice warm spaces for the hipster latte sippers to discuss the nasty effects of all that ‘warming’.
20
Two things PF.
1. Speak for yourself; and
2. Be a better troll.
20
I’ll organise a zoom meeting to give him some pointers.
15
Many a true word spoken in jest
00
One trick marxists use us they drive good police to resign, or purge them, then give the radicals a badge and gun.
This historically how it seems to go.
You could wind up with civil war within Oz, or at least between the population and
illegitimate authorities, as the population reject the attempted marxist takeover.
We’ve seen in Victoristan a taste of it, now imagine street thugs with guns, and of course all our legal guns will be confiscated by then….because that what communists do ….and you know the “wellness camps” ….. called concn camps by any other name …And youre a fool if you think they won’t do it
30
Quick, news flash: SA at net zero with windmills supplying over 100% of SA electricity demand all through last night.
And last Tues solar/wind provided over 80% of demand. Of course at other times gas and Vic coal imports providd over 80% of demand.
Tassie is regularly at net zero due 100%+ hydro.
Qld is the laggard with coal/gas supplying 80% of demand.
41
Yep, also happens the other way around occasionally too.
https://i.postimg.cc/3RYL0fZR/SA_Gas_27_June.jpg
I wonder what will happen once gas is no longer available. 😉
From the air, on a windless night, SA will look just like North Korea.
71
And this morning the news is that 12,000 homes are without electricity.
20
hmmm, I just checked the 48hr for SA
Looks like still gas (darker green) being used all the time.
https://i.postimg.cc/QMZ63GKY/SA-27-28-Oct.jpg
20
And here’s the 24 hour trace
https://i.postimg.cc/BvdPy48t/SA-28-Oct.jpg
Someone is telling porkies !!
20
I think Robber is being satirical.
20
Trying to straddle the barbed wire fence with one leg either side is always going to end badly. But, this act by Morrison is far worse because it’s a full 180 from the coal hugging conservative “man of conviction” image he once portrayed. The man that stopped the boats, who is a member of a Christian congregation, big on family values and brave enough to hold a lump of coal in parliament. The conservatives who fled the coalition under Turn-bulls..t, all returned as a silent majority to steal victory from Shorten, and only because they thought there was finally a pair of ears listening the their voices and ready to take action.
This act is worse than the “No Carbon Tax, under a government I lead” lie from Gillard. Not only did Scomo reverse his policy, he doubled down on the numbers from 45% to 100%. This makes it twice as bad !!!
The fallout for Scomo will be very bad, but it’s even worse for conservatives in our 2pp system because it will scatter the vote across minor parties giving a big leg up to Labor. And, much as I hate to admit, the conservative minor parties have no leadership. Pauline has good intentions but has no public speaking or political skills and Craig Kelly is only seen as an anti-vax champion. If Mark Latham was leading one of these parties at the federal level it would be completely different, but he’s chosen to hide out in state government and out of the public eye, so he can devote time to his media visits on Sky. If Labor win the next election as now expected and probably by a big margin, the LNP can’t block any push to legislate Net Zero in the senate because the majority have supported it, including Scomo. This means all such nasty legislation will be supported by the Greens, Labor and green Libs as a minimum.
On the up side (If one exists), Net Zero will fail before 2030 because the world needs more FF each year to maintain the energy needs of the global population growth, even with inefficient RE being added. On the down side, the Net Zero policy will dry up our FF production due to a lack of investment over a 5 year period, starting around now. It will also cause a huge energy shortage, leading to global stagflation and possibly hyper-stagflation.
How to save the world = Nuclear, but have we already raided the piggy bank and blown the lot on useless RE, with nothing left to implement the fix ?. Nuclear would provide real 24/7 energy and better still, it would free up FF for use in industry, transport and fertiliser, leading to lower world energy prices and driving inflation down. Nuclear would also save Australia as we hold by far the biggest reserves and we would become the new Saudi of the global economy.
30
The major parties have continually marketed that votes for a minor party is a wasted vote. With 3 of the minor parties actively against net zero we have potential for one of or a combination of these holding the balance of power.
I joined the Liberal Democrats where they have prominent sceptics Campbell Newman, John Ruddick , Ross Cameron and Tom Switzer. There energy policy is let the market decide , and when it comes to baseload either nuclear or coal. No to net zero.
For those like me who are frustrated ex Libs the Lib Democrats really hit the political sweet spot. As a benefit they are also very strong at a state level in Victoria where they are really the only ones standing up against Dan Andrews bullying.
Whilst One Nation and UAP have controversial identities running the party the Lib Democrats represents a
more appealing middle of the road party that conservatives can park their vote knowing that it’s looking after things that matter. From having engaged on their chat site I can assure you that there are heaps of members who wiould source their info from this website. There are also plenty of Ivermectin fans.
For those looking for an alternative to the pathetic liberals I’d suggest look at the LDP web site. A party of principles.
60
Which ever of the new minors you vote for first…
… you must make sure your vote flows to the other two.
60
Conservative? Nahh, Libertarian,son.
10
SA trashed by a storm, 30,000 + without any power.
30
I have an anaesthetist friend and some of his woke colleagues are trying to stop him using Desflurane anaesthetic because supposedly using a typical dose of 400mls is equivalent in terms of supposed greenhouse warming of the carbon (sic) emissions of a 747 from Melbourne to London.
It is an extremely safe, well tolerated and effective agent which the woke Leftists, including some in the medical profession, are trying to stop from being used at a possible risk to patient health.
It’s to “save the planet”, you know…
70
There really are some highly intelligent and capable people who have convinced themselves of truly idiotic things.
80
As they said in the Australian film ” The Castle”. It’s the vibe. The craziness can only get worse. I still think Scotty and Angus are just playing a game. It’s all a charade, window dressing. But rather pointless from a politics point of view, because Labor ( if sensible) can just agree to provide an equivalent plan, so to be no different. The other minor parties (UAP, PHON) and independents will just harvest votes from annoyed traditional LNP voters.
40
Given the staggering hypocrisy and double standards of the Left, I bet if a Leftist anaesthetist needed Desflurane because that was the superior agent, they’d demand it.
Inferior products are for the untermenschen.
30
As Greg Sheridan wrote, Morrison is copping a drubbing from conservatives for actually promising nothing new. He has said technology, in time, will provide, as has always been the case with the non progressives of the Liberal Party.
As with the climate activists’ reasoning where everything is just-in-case and ‘heating might happen in the distant future’, Morrison is promising nothing about what technology will be, or where it will go, in the activists same ‘future’. In the meantime, we keep on doing what we are already doing, and that involves mining coal and gas and not interfering with agriculture’s methane farting ruminants.
In all of this he is actually being the one Western leader that, in the face of Biden and Johnson and submarines and China, that is standing his ground. It’s not the Australian Federal government that’s demanding destruction of our fossil fuel energy system and coal fired power plants. That comes from the States, most of whom are headed by Premiers, mainly Labor and the weak SA Premier (driven like a battery hen),currently with little skin in the game, owe their positions to the lockdown Gods of COVID-19 and who will become blemished when they are forced to open economically and then handle the real problem of many cases per day and raised death rates. This is what has been forced on Andrews in Victoria and WA will face the same.
As I recall, Morrison has made the case for getting modern coal fired plants built, but unless the Feds do the building he has been rebuffed by Big Business with its obnoxious, guaranteed profits in the current green’s system,
by the financial system refusing to provide funds to build such plants, and by the State governments that control our power systems.
The entire crazy world of the Western Democracies, with the same hypoctical beating of the breast by their leaders, are promising (with the usual no intention of fulfilling those promises) net zero emissioms by 2050. Morrison is simply playing that game I believe he has already said it’s an aim that may or may not be reached ie pie in the sky.
I would suggest, with what the WA Premier has said about huge wind and solar fields he has plans to see built, it’s not Morrison conservatives need to be shooting themselves in the foot by criticisms of him. The nation is in greater financial peril from the State Premiers, falling over themselves to associate with private financial go-getters and their outlandish plans, or with big business that already sees it can, per se, control the people. Remember, Australian States and Federally already carry humungus debt. And interest rates will be rising, driven by inflation.
that can see where to make a quid out of anything for themselves et al
10
Apologies for poor editing.
00