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Molten lava ball called Earth springs leak — incandescent rock “waterfall” on Hawaii

It is easy to forget we stand on a molten lava ball. Worth a minute of your time. Wow.

It’s being called the Lava fire hose — 70 feet of flowing liquid rock. Pure Geo-voyerism.

How close is that boat… camera trick?

I gather Hawaii’s Kilauea Volcano has been erupting pretty much all the time since 1983 so this is not “evacuation time”. But I’m guessing this waterfall variety is pretty unusual. If it keeps up, it’s one helluva tourist attraction.

All the forces of nature are pretty much just showing off here — wrap your mind around this steam:

“The steam plume created by the lava reaching the water is also a concern.

“It’s super-heated steam laced with hydrochloric acid from the interaction with the seawater and has shards of volcanic glass,” Ms Babb said.

“It’s something to be avoided.”

The story: Massive lava stream exploding into ocean in Hawaii (ABC)

 

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Molten lava ball called Earth springs leak -- incandescent rock "waterfall" on Hawaii, 9.7 out of 10 based on 63 ratings

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114 comments to Molten lava ball called Earth springs leak — incandescent rock “waterfall” on Hawaii

  • #
    Steven Fraser

    Wow! I saw that lava entry in 1994 during a helicopter tour. This is way more impressive.

    50

  • #
    doubtingdave

    Its great to see all that lovely plant food being released , replenishing the atmosphere , no wonder Hawaii is such a verdant place . A question , NOAA measure atmospheric CO2 levels at nearby Mauna Loa which is also a volcanic island , so does this massive release of CO2 help them skew their worldwide average ?

    242

    • #
      John F. Hultquist

      NO.

      http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/blogs/climateqa/mauna-loa-co2-record/

      How do scientists know that Mauna Loa’s volcanic emissions don’t affect the carbon dioxide data collected there?

      20

      • #
        doubtingdave

        John thanks for taking the trouble to reply and post a link to my question , what do they mean by ” simple mathematical filter ” its a little vague , do they take out the upper and lower outliers from their complete data set then average out the mean ? they say they take all their readings from a similar elevation across the world , but is that at either sea level or ground level on the side of a mountain , CO2 is a heavy molecule that tends to want to cling to ground level so readings would be higher there than above the surface in the atmosphere , finally its worth noting that on the land surface of the earth the regions that have the most abundance and variety of life are the Rainforests , where CO2 levels are recorded in the 1000′s of PPM just under the tree canopy , Hawaii is both volcanically active and covered in rain forests , thanks

        50

        • #
          John F. Hultquist

          The Mauna Loa site is meant to provide a long-term average of atmospheric readings NOT influenced by local sources or sinks of the gases being monitored. The air being sampled is not comeing from local sources. Instead it is near the mountain top getting well-mixed air flowing across a long fetch without local sources (except that big Ocean about 3400 m. lower.

          The reference to “a similar elevation across the world” means doing things, such as, explained here:
          One example

          Other groups do similar things, as explained here.
          http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/co2/lampis.html

          There are many places where concentrations will be much above or below the Mauna Loa readings. In fact, a healthy corn field will have a high reading near ground level in the pre-dawn, and a very low reading by mid-afternoon (with no wind).

          The following link began posting about CO₂ in September of 1998.
          http://co2science.org/

          20

          • #
            doubtingdave

            but that is the point I am trying to understand , how can ground level readings be compatible with atmostheric readings when as a molecule CO2 is heavier than air , surly CO2 WOULD collect at a lower level , so I ask you again do they measure CO2 levels at the surface or metres above it

            00

  • #
    Environment Skeptic

    It makes our attempts at controlling the weather seem feeble in comparison.

    164

  • #
    turnedounice

    A hellava sight.

    40

  • #
    Pat Frank

    Great harvest of steamed mussels this year, though. :-)

    90

  • #
    Alan Watt Climate Denialist, Level 7

    We were at Volcano Park which includes Kilauea in November last year, before the shelf collapsed and apparently opened up this tube. We saw the lava lake in the caldera from about a mile away but did not go down to the ocean entry.

    There is another video featuring a couple of Darwin candidates very close to the lava stream, which gives you a sense of scale on the size of the flow. This is not a “lava firehose”; it’s more of a lava water main.

    The park rangers have tried to keep everyone back at least 700 yards, but some people just don’t listen. There is also a risk of a further collapse. This is why telephoto lenses were developed.

    140

  • #
    KinkyKeith

    About twenty years ago we got up very close to a tamer version of the outflow from Kilauea, certainly not like the spectacular footage shown here.

    Mount Yasur on Tanna/Tana was a thumping explosive monster by comparison.

    During my studies I gained the impression that the energy loss from Earth was about 4 watts per square metre.

    We are obviously gonna freeze one day in the future unless we can trap and hold some of this heat. :-)

    KK

    100

    • #
      Geoff Sherrington

      KK,
      People from geological sciences tend to have better appreciation of scales of events because often it is they with hands on, measuring. A big message for me was like the ants (my mob) wanting to interact with elephants (the natural world) with a view to lasting friendship leading to a procreative desire.
      But the Earth is far too vast for this. Man has little evidence of being able to ‘control’ Earth.
      I do not have the numbers here at hand, but volcanic emissions from land based systems are not significant sources of CO2 to air, so far as we have measured data. Undersea venting has huge uncertainty of scale as hhhgeologist Ian Plimer repeatedly states, often in the context that there might be far greater emissions than officially thought.
      Should we spend more $$$ on working out how much GHG in the air comes from natural processes? Methinks not, because we do not know how to stop or reduce volcanic GHG.
      Common sense about volcanic GHG has given way here and there for a desperate ‘We must do something about these GHGs now, no matter the $$$ cost. It is irrational.

      173

      • #
        gnome

        What you call land-based volcanoes are probably the main producers of CO2 because of the source of the material being melted.

        Where the surface material is not being scraped off as the crustal material is being subducted a lot of organic sediment is going down into the earth and providing the higher silica, higher volatile magma. Coal, organic shales, limestone, all produce heaps of CO2. That is what occurs around the Pacific rim of fire. The spreading zone volcanoes like the Hawaiian ones and Iceland don’t have that source.

        Of course a flow like the one shown here can only go on until the material builds up from below to block the vent. Then it will emerge elsewhere or simply stop for a while until pressure builds for another blowout.

        60

      • #
        Andrew McRae

        Geology buffs can drop a hint like this to your family just before your next birthday.
        http://imgur.com/gallery/Calwv

        40

    • #
      KinkyKeith

      Every second of the lava flow seems like it might contain the same “heat content” or “energy content” as about 5 blast furnace taps or 10 BOS steel-making pours.

      And this is only one thread of one volcano. natures daily output is huge in comparison to mans industrial complex.

      Sadly Australia has one steel-making plant that may or may not be still operating at the time of writing.
      What nation on Earth of our capabilities can afford the human cost of exporting our steel making to Chyna?

      Our politics is stuffed.

      KK

      90

  • #

    I’ve walked through a big forest fire in the early windless hours before it woke up again. Great scary experience, but being close to this outflow would be even more thrilling.

    We live on the skinny surface of a giant ball of heat, minerals, pressure, fresh water…a largely unvisited planet called Earth. Someone tell NASA.

    111

  • #
    Grant (NZ)

    I thin the “It’s something to be avoided.” should be redundant. But in this day and age with people who are unable to assess hazards for themselves it might not be so obvious to some (of a certain age group).

    60

  • #
    jorgekafkazar

    “It’s super-heated steam laced with hydrochloric acid from the interaction with the seawater and has shards of volcanic glass,” Ms Babb said. “It’s something to be avoided.”

    Duh!

    40

  • #
    Yonniestone

    “If I say its safe to surf this beach Captain, then its safe to surf this beach!” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jts9suWIDlU

    20

  • #
    Spetzer86

    You can scuba dive through the lava tubes off of Kauai, which is really interesting if you’re into that sort of thing. This clearly shows how those tubes came to be.

    30

  • #
    ralfellis

    .
    The ancients saw this same phenomina, just before the island of Thera-Santorini completely exploded. Jason and the Argonauts were trying to reach Crete but the mighty Thalos barred their way. And as Thalos grazed his ankle, the ichor (blood of the gids) flowed out like molten lead. Quite obviously, this was a first-hand description of the eruption of Thera. The full text says:

    Quote:
    And Talos, the man of bronze, as he broke off rocks from the hard cliff, stopped them from fastening hawsers to the shore, … He was of the stock of bronze, of the men sprung from ash-trees, the last left among the sons of the gods; and the son of Cronos gave him to Europa to be the guardian of Crete and to stride round the island thrice a day with his feet of bronze. Now in all the rest of his body and limbs was he fashioned of bronze and invulnerable; but beneath the sinew by his ankle was a blood-red vein; and this, with its issues of life and death, was covered by a thin skin. …. and they drew the ship out of range, resting on their oars, waiting to see what plan unlooked …. So Talos … was heaving massive rocks to stop them from reaching the haven, he grazed his ankle on a pointed crag; and the ichor gushed forth like melted lead; and not long thereafter did he stand towering on the jutting cliff. But ….. Talos for a while stood on his tireless feet, swaying to and fro, when at last, all strengthless, fell with a mighty thud. For that night there in Crete the heroes lay; then, just as dawn was growing bright, they built a shrine to Minoan Athena,
    Endquote:

    There is more to ancient mythology, than fictional fairy stories.

    R

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    • #
      doubtingdave

      Thanks Ralf , Santorini is a fascinating place to visit , it could also be the origin of the Atlantis myth , Plato said he got the story from Solon who was an explorer and found out the story in turn from priest whilst visiting Egypt , also some say the tsunami released by the eruption is responsible for the myth of the parting of the Red sea ( Red being an early Greek mistranslation of reed sea , the low lying salt marshes of the Nile delta .

      50

      • #
        TdeF

        It was the end of two great bronze age civilizations which each lasted 2,000 years, the Minoan and the Mycenean. Forensic archeology showed only a few decades ago that it was not raids by the sea peoples which destroyed them, so it was Santorini. All the houses collapsed at the same time. Then the tidal waves. This one volcano changed European human history in that cauldron of European society, the Aegean. Records were kept by the continuing Egyptians and the story learned by the Greek historian Herodotus a thousand years later because few people were left at the time. Things are discovered and lost and have to be discovered all over again, from clocks to concrete.

        Santonia is a fantastic place to visit. Forget the party islands. Stay on top of the 400 metre sheer cliff at Thera and marvel at the caldera. It is like being on top edge of the Empire State building with no fence but the feeling of being in the place where the world changed is overwhelming. The caldera is so deep at 300metres that only the biggest liners can drop anchor.

        The other great spot is the 40km Bosphorous in Istanbul between the Sea of Marmara and the Black sea. This 1km crack led to the legend of the flood as the Meditteranean crashed into the huge fresh water lake, the cradle of Middle Eastern world which then expanded to the modern salty Black Sea. The original lake is still there with settlements on the edge, 300 metres down. You can see the furrows on the sea floor as a whole ocean fell 300 metres. This was Armageddon, Noah’s devastating flood, the result of the end of the ice age crashing down in days not centuries. The people who survived scattered. So within ten years, we now have the date of Noah’s flood. Mt Ararat is on the SE corner of the Black Sea, so called because of the volcanic sulphur in the old lake below.

        In Victoria, the lava flows were recent and we still get earth tremors, more in Adelaide. The last lava flows in Victoria were a mere 7,000 years ago.

        So let’s worry about Carbon Dioxide, the greatest moral challenge of a generation. What utter science free nonsense.

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        • #
          • #
            doubtingdave

            TdeF , I’ve taken that voyage by ship to Santorini , the white knuckle donkey ride from the harbour to the top of the caldera is well worth it just so you can look down at that large ship that you sailed in on as if its just a bath toy . AS of yet the archaeologists haven’t found any human remains dating to the eruption , so perhaps the locals had time to escape , perhaps it was a slow burner , the ash cloud for weeks or even months travelling on easterly winds to the Nile delta destroying crops and livestock , forcing the population to migrate through the marshes or starve , then the magma in the chamber under the volcano emptied to such an extent that the roof collapsed I on itself , the sea rushed in to the void and boom one of the largest explosions in human history , the resultant tsunami travels across the sea to the Nile delta just as the mass migration ( exodus )is taking place , just speculation I know , but its easy to get carried away when your sat outside a Taverna with a class of wine in Thera town looking out to sea .

            60

            • #
              KinkyKeith

              I’m envious but not sure about the donkey ride.

              30

              • #
                Matty

                Aren’t the donkeys for the better endowed visitors that would otherwise be unable to get up the steep path to spend their money in the numerous gift shops under their own steam?

                00

              • #
                doubtingdave

                Matty , no your so wrong you don’t even know it , infact there is a also a chair lift to the top if you are of the faint hearted :)

                00

              • #
                doubtingdave

                no Matty , infact there is a chair lift option for the faint hearted ;)

                00

            • #
              ralfellis

              .
              [locals escaped]. Indeed. And we know they escaped because they built a new royal palace in coastal Egypt, near Tanis. This is where the later radical pharaoh got his revolutionary ‘new’ artwork from – it was simply Minoan.

              R

              40

            • #
              ralfellis

              .
              [just as the mass migration ( exodus )i s taking place].
              The Hyksos-Israelite Exodus was not coincidental, it was causal. The gods were angry, and there had to be a reason. That reason was deemed to be the new immigrant Hyksos Shepherd Kings (which is why the Israelite patriarchs are called shepherds). And this precipitated a civil war, which ended up as the Hyksos-Exodus Exodus (ie, the Israelite Exodus).

              And if you read the Exodus account critically, you will see elements of that civil war. There is Moses killing 2,000 bull worshippers. There is the mass looting of the Egyptians. There is the attempt to kill the children. And the huge tribute given to the Israelites to induce them the leave. The latter is confirmed by the Tempest Stele of Ahmose I, which also says that tribute was given to the Hyksos, and also records the effects of the eruption of Thera.

              R

              40

        • #
          sophocles

          TdeF says:

          Forensic archeology showed only a few decades ago that it was not raids by the sea peoples which destroyed them, so it was Santorini.

          The big eruption of Thera has been well established at around 1647 BC +/- the usual carbon dating error bands. The end of the Bronze Age came some 500 years later. The volcano did much damage to all. Crete suffered from a huge tsunami along its northern coasts, but that didn’t kill the Minoan civiliaation off completely. It recovered but not entirely. So, no, it wasn’t Thera. The Sea Peoples were also not entirely responsible.

          Eric Cline, an archeologist at George Washington Uni, Washington DC, published his account of the events which brought the Bronze Age in the Meditteranean to an end in his book 1177BC, The Year Civilisation Collapsed. According to him:

          After centuries of brilliance, the civilized world of the Bronze Age came to an abrupt and cataclysmic end. Kingdoms fell like dominoes over the course of just a few decades. No more Minoans or Mycenaeans. No more Trojans, Hittites [Turkey], or Babylonians [Iraq]. The thriving economy and cultures of the late second millennium B.C., which had stretched from Greece to Egypt and Mesopotamia, suddenly ceased to exist, along with writing systems, technology, and monumental architecture. But the Sea Peoples alone could not have caused such widespread breakdown.

          That wasn’t just two civilisations! The Sea Peoples were on the move for many reasons, which could have ranged from Climate Change through earthquakes and so on. People migrate en masse when they lose the ability to feed themselves for whatever reason. The Biblical Philistines are thought to be settlers from among these migrants. Cline lays the blame on “a perfect storm of catastrophe” and in the book

          tells the gripping story of how the end was brought about by multiple interconnected failures, ranging from invasion and revolt to earthquakes, drought, and the cutting of international trade routes.

          That part of the Meditteranean is tectonically very active. Turkey (and Cyprus) exist on their own plate. It’s moving due west, quite quickly, as it’s squeezed out of the jaws of Africa and Asia, aimed straight at Greece. So big earthquakes were and are common.

          He makes a mention in the book of the slow recovery of civilisation experimenting with iron” but doesn’t develop it. I personally think it was the exhaustion of the Cyprus copper mines. Copper was the trade currency and the main trading good, along with tin (10%) which was mainly sourced from Spain, so when the copper ran out … well, no more coins (silver and gold were much rarer), no more bronze, no more weapons, no more tools, and no more everything else made from bronze. The effect would be the same for us if all hydrocarbon fuels ran out simultaneously.

          For those interested:

          CLINE, Eric H, 2014: “1177 The Year Civilization Collapsed” ISBN: 9780691140896
          I got my copy from Amazon.

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          • #
            Annie

            TdeF and Sophocles, I think it’s Mediterranean (‘terra’).

            10

            • #
              Annie

              I should have added that I’ve enjoyed these comments. It’s stuff that really interests me. We love Cyprus; there are so many facets to this beautiful island. Its name denotes its copper mining origin. The last time we were there we visited the new geological museum based in the old asbestos mining area, Amiandos ( which means asbestos).

              20

            • #
              sophocles

              Annie, you’re right.
              My keyboard makes mistakes. It’s so-o-o irritating. Sigh.

              10

    • #
      ralfellis

      There is another record of this eruption in the Bible. The plagues story has: an ashfall, a pillar of fire, a pillar of smoke, air too thick to breathe, and the waters parting (ie, a tsunami). And the only event that can link all of these together in thus region, is the eruption of Thera-Santorini.

      This is what id called a ‘black swan event’ – something so unusual it could not have been guessed or manufactured as a work of fiction. How would any ancient chronicler have known that all these events were linked to one geological event? They wouldn’t. Which means that the biblical account must be an eye-witness account.

      This is confirmed by Josephus Flavius, who says that the Israelites were actually the Hyksos Pharaohs of Egypt. And the Hyksos exodus out of Egypt, which is identical to the Israelite exodus, was in about 1570 BC, or very close to the era of the Thera eruption.

      So again, the biblical story is not a mythological fantasy at all, it is a dim recollection of a traumatic real event.

      Ralph

      50

      • #
        doubtingdave

        Thanks Ralf , I know we are drifting well of topic but I blame you for mentioning Moses and the Bull worshippers , Astrotheology is a pet interest of mine , the Moses / bull story is likely a symbolic reference to the changing of the ages , earth has a wobble on its axes which means that every 2100 years ( approx ) the Sun rises on the horizon ( horus rising ) under a different star sign ( constellation ) at about the time Moses is said to have lived the star sign above the Sun changed from Taurus the bull to Aries the Ram , his priests are often depicted blowing Rams horns and Moses himself often depicted with horns , previously the Minoans worshipped the bull , 2100 years after Moses is the time said to be the birth of Jesus and the Sun began to rise under Pisces ( the two fish ) still to this day a Christian symbol , in a couple of decades another age will have past and the Sun will rise under Aquarius the water bearer , so this old sixties pop song begins to make more sense now doesn’t it ; https://youtu.be/kjxSCAalsBE

        40

        • #
          ralfellis

          .
          [the Moses-bull story is likely a symbolic reference to the changing of the ages]

          Indeed it was, it was a reference to the Great Month of Taurus changing to the Great Month of Aries. Which is why the Hyksos were called Shepherd Kings, and why the patriarchs were called shepherds. And why Alexander the Great and Ptolemy III et al wore the horns of the ram.

          And the Great Month of Airies changed to the Great Month of Pisces in AD10, which is why Jesus was born as a Lamb of God but became a Fisher of Men. The essence of original Judaism was astrology, which is why all ancient Jewish synagogues have a zodiac on the floor.

          Ralph

          60

          • #
            doubtingdave

            Ralf ( Ralph ) its been a while since I’ve looked into idea’s and books from you and others with similar interests , I’ve been preoccupied with climate blogs and modern politics , can you recommend a forum , discussion blog that is more appropriate for these themes and what are you working on at the moment , cheers

            00

    • #

      “And Talos, the man of bronze, as he broke off rocks from the hard cliff, stopped them from fastening hawsers to the shore”
      **Video** | Hawaii just got smaller | 100ft section of sea cliff breaks-plunges into ocean!
      http://youtu.be/kjah-aR8-C8

      10

  • #
    David Maddison

    I hope the Left aren’t blaming this on Climate Change(TM).

    But they might! http://www.livescience.com/25936-climate-change-causes-volcanism.html

    Also, I just watched an absolutely ridiculous 2010 National Geo “documentary” talking about catastrophic sea level rise where they suggested that places like San Francisco Bay and the entrance to the Mediterranean would have to be dammed to save those areas from flooding. See https://youtu.be/E69dvCtlX_g

    123

  • #
    Mari C

    We stand on a ball of magma. If we were standing on a ball of lava, our shoes & feet would all have burned off long ago. Along with other assorted pieces-parts.

    32

    • #
      Geoffrey Williams

      It’s crusted over dope!
      GeoffW

      30

      • #
        jorgekafkazar

        Did you mean to say, “It’s crusted over, dope”? If it were crusted-over dope, people would drill holes in it.

        60

        • #
          Geoffrey Williams

          Fair comment Jorge, my comment was a little ‘tongue in cheek’- but crusted over dope could does sound fun!
          GeoffW

          10

          • #
            jorgekafkazar

            Well, I did know what you meant. There’s enough sarcasm here that serious comments should probably be prefaced with /s, instead of the other way ’round.

            20

  • #
    Dennis

    Are the pictures actually from the Oval Office in the White House?

    20

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      The flow is reported as starting December 31, before Trump took office. Perhaps one of Obama’s last minute problems?

      20

  • #
    Russ

    …and for the alarmists how much C02 is that pumping into the atmosphere?

    20

  • #
    toorightmate

    Heaven to Betsy!

    The oceans will rise.
    The oceans (and the planet) will warm.
    The oceans will “acidify”.

    We must tax this lava to stop it happening.

    60

  • #
    Broadie

    Incredible insight into the formation of Lava tubes. Queensland has some amazing examples.
    The Undara tubes behind Cairns and Natural Arch behind the Gold Coast are great examples.

    40

  • #
  • #
    Mark M

    That is very spectacular.

    Sen. Malcolm Roberts has challenged Prof. Michael Mann to a debate whilst Mann enjoys his book-promotion, fossil-fuelled flight to Australia.
    https://twitter.com/SenatorMRoberts/status/827269051961323521

    Mann claims he needs 96 more scientists.

    Roberts agrees to Mann’s comical 97 v 1.

    Mann, who is terrified of debating skeptics: “Good-faith debate is not only OK, it is welcome — and critical”

    https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/02/02/aaup-says-colleges-should-defend-professors-targeted-online-harassment-due-political

    With the weight of the science behind him, will Mann & his 96 other scientists welcome the ‘critical” debate?

    50

  • #
    ROM

    That Lava waterfall is big!

    Its bloody impressive!

    And it doesn’t even rate as peanuts compared to what the Planet can and has turned on down through geological history.
    .

    Mankind of course wasn’t around to see these massive and no doubt spectacular to see events which you would have seen if you survived the immense and highly toxic gas emissions,.
    Those immense geological and volcanic events would have no doubt, had a few greenies and alarmists and the MSM been around, been blamed on global warming with a very large dose of very genuine climate change included as most life on earth discovered to their cost.

    Information below is quoted from Wiki but numerous other similar information sources are also available.
    .

    The Siberian Traps;
    One of the largest known volcanic events of the last 500 million years of Earth’s geological history, continued for a million years and spanned the Permian–Triassic boundary, about 251 to 250 million years ago.

    A statistic: An individual basalt flow with a volume of 1500 km3 would bury the whole of the UK beneath about 6 metres of lava, or Greater London beneath about 1 km.

    Assuming a total volume of 3 million km3 for the Siberian Traps, this could bury the whole of western Europe beneath more than 1 km of basalt, or the whole of the UK beneath about 12 km.
    .

    And then there is the Deccan Traps of western India;

    The Deccan Traps are a large igneous province located on the Deccan Plateau of west-central India and one of the largest volcanic features on Earth.
    They consist of multiple layers of solidified flood basalt that together are more than 2,000 m (6,562 ft) thick, cover an area of 500,000 km2 (193,051 sq mi) and have a volume of 512,000 km3 (123,000 cu mi).
    Originally, it may have covered 1.5 million km2.

    The Deccan Traps began forming 66.25 million years ago, at the end of the Cretaceous period. [Earth's last great extinction event.]
    The bulk of the volcanic eruption occurred at the Western Ghats some 66 million years ago.
    This series of eruptions may have lasted less than 30,000 years in total.

    The original area covered by the lava flows is estimated to have been as large as 1.5 million km², approximately half the size of modern India.
    .

    Now can anybody here even imagine the sheer size of the lava waterfalls and colossal flows of entire lava rivers no doubt as large or larger than most of Earth’s current Rivers that in a period of just some 30,000 years, a period of only about twice the length of humanity’s civilisation, emmitted some half a million cubic kilometres of lava and volcanic ash to form the Deccan Traps.

    Or perhaps three times as much of that volume of lava flows if the reduction of the Traps volume and area due to erosion down to the present known sizes and area is correct.
    .

    And finally , the BIG one.
    A volcanic province which I suspect that most readers here are unaware of.

    Central Atlantic magmatic province

    The Central Atlantic magmatic province (CAMP) is the Earth’s largest continental large igneous province, covering an area of roughly 11 million km2.
    It is composed mainly of basalt that formed prior to the breakup of Pangaea in the Mesozoic Era, near the end of the Triassic and the beginning of the Jurassic periods.
    The subsequent breakup of Pangaea created the Atlantic Ocean and provided a legacy of basaltic dikes, sills, and lavas over a vast area around the present central North Atlantic Ocean, including large deposits in northwest Africa, southwest Europe, as well as northeast South and southeast North America (found as continental thoeliitic basalts in subaerial flows and intrusive bodies).
    The name and CAMP acronym were proposed by Andrea Marzoli (Marzoli et al. 1999) and adopted at a symposium held at the 1999 Spring Meeting of the American Geophysical Union.

    The CAMP volcanic eruptions occurred about 201 million years ago and split into four pulses lasting for over ~600,000 years.
    The resulting large igneous province is, in area covered, the most extensive on earth.
    The volume of magma flow of ~2–3 × 106 km3 makes it one of the most voluminous as well.

    This geologic event is associated with the Triassic–Jurassic extinction event.

    The Permian–Triassic (P–Tr) extinction event, colloquially known as the Great Dying, the End Permian or the Great Permian Extinction, occurred about 252 Ma (million years) ago, forming the boundary between the Permian and Triassic geologic periods, as well as the Paleozoic and Mesozoic eras.
    It is the Earth’s most severe known extinction event, with up to 96% of all marine species and 70% of terrestrial vertebrate species becoming extinct.
    It is the only known mass extinction of insects.
    Some 57% of all families and 83% of all genera became extinct.
    Because so much biodiversity was lost, the recovery of life on Earth took significantly longer than after any other extinction event, possibly up to 10 million years.

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      ROM

      As a side issue, the highest mountain on Earth is the inactive Hawaiian volcano Mauna Kea.

      Mauna Kea rises to 4205 meters [13796 feet ] above sea level.
      But it also extends 6000 meters below the surface of the ocean to the ocean floor giving it a total height of 10210 meters [ 33,500 feet ], a height of more than a kilometer higher than Everest.

      In the Solar System, the prize for the highest mountain, another volcano is Mar’s Olympus Mons which towers some 22,000 meters [ 72000 feet ] above the Mars plain.
      .
      The always fascinating bit more on the Hawaiian Volcanos with quotes from “Geology.com”
      Plate Tectonics and the Hawaiian Hot Spot

      Origin of the Hawaiian Islands

      The Hawaiian Islands are the tops of gigantic volcanic mountains formed by countless eruptions of fluid lava over several million years; some tower more than 30,000 feet above the seafloor. These volcanic peaks rising above the ocean surface represent only the tiny, visible part of an immense submarine ridge, the Hawaiian Ridge—Emperor Seamount Chain, composed of more than 80 large volcanoes.

      This range stretches across the Pacific Ocean floor from the Hawaiian Islands to the Aleutian Trench. The length of the Hawaiian Ridge segment alone, between the Island of Hawai’i and Midway Island to the northwest, is about 1,600 miles, roughly the distance from Washington, D.C., to Denver, Colorado. The amount of lava erupted to form this huge ridge, about 186,000 cubic miles, is more than enough to cover the State of California with a layer 1 mile thick.

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      • #
        ianl8888

        In the Solar System, the prize for the highest mountain, another volcano is Mar’s Olympus Mons which towers some 22,000 meters [ 72000 feet ] above the Mars plain

        Considering that Mars is about 1/3rd the spherical volume of earth, and Mars is now regarded as a “dead” planet (from all the geo survey we’ve done so far we have detected no seismic activity), I’ve tentatively regarded Olympus Mons as empirical evidence of the devastating effect of an almighty asteroid strike. Of course, Mons is not the only extinct Martian volcano, just the largest. I welcome informed comment on this little hypothesis.

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        • #
          ROM

          Mars had free running water in the ages past as has been verified by NASA’s Curiosity Rover [ Mars Science Laboratory/Curiosity ]

          And that would also imply that Mars was tectonically active for much of its existence.

          The differences between Earth’s and Mar’s volcanoes as exemplified by Olympus Mons is the much lower density of Mars atmosphere due to its small size and therefore lower gravitational levels to hold an atmosphere, the remnants of a Mars atmosphere today that has a density equivalent to about 1% of earth’s atmosphere .

          Mar’s atmosphere today consists of;

          Carbon dioxide: 95.32 percent
          Nitrogen: 2.7 percent
          Argon: 1.6 percent
          Oxygen: 0.13 percent
          Carbon monoxide: 0.08 percent
          Also, minor amounts of: water, nitrogen oxide, neon, hydrogen-deuterium-oxygen, krypton and xenon.

          Air at Sea level and at a standard atmospheric pressure and temperature here on Earth weighs approximately 1.1 kilograms per cubic metre of air.

          So Mars volcanoes are not subject to both the full effects of wind erosion from a dense air mass as experienced here on Earth.

          And more importantly, Mars volcanoes are NOT subject to considerable amounts of rainfall precipitation or an oceanic water erosion process over many hundreds of millenniums which erodes and washes away the soils on the flanks of the volcanic cones thus constantly reducing the height of any active volcano.

          The Earth’s active volcanoes constantly or intermittently eject material which would normally build the volcano ever higher and larger in the absence of the constant and incessant weather erosion as found here on Earth and as we see has happened on Mars.

          And that difference in erosion between Earth and Mars due to the low density of the Mars atmosphere and the total lack of free water and precipitation on Mars today is the simple explanation as to why Mars has such a gigantic volcanic cone in Olympus Mons compared to earth’s largest Volcanoes.

          Without water and wind erosion Earth’s Volcanoes in all probability would have matched and probably surpassed Mar’s largest volcanoes in both size and height due to a much higher and much longer period of volcanic activity on Earth which still vigorously ongoing today.

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          • #
            DavidH

            I understood the reason for Mars’s huge shield volcanoes was the lack of tectonic plate movements. Here on Earth, the plates move over hotspots, creating structures like the Hawaiian islands and the succession of Yellowstone calderas.

            Another possible factor on Mars is the lower gravity. The buoyancy of rising magma has less downward force to overcome. Again on Earth, as mountains build up (by volcanics as or thrusting), their increased weight depresses the crust, which counteracts the upwards growth. Further, on Mars, the crust is thick, having solidified deeper than here, so crustal depression would be less.

            10

  • #
    Dennis

    Fossils renewed:

    GRAHAM LLOYD
    Energy policy at home and abroad is adjusting to a new world order.

    The Australian newspaper

    Thank you POTUS Trump, President Putin and other leaders, the new new world order is beginning.

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    • #
      tom0mason

      Indeed Dennis, so enamored of Trump and his energy policies are the Japanese that they now are planning 45 new coal-fired generating plants. Now watch as more greenie-heads explode.

      Originally from http://dailycaller.com/2017/02/01/japan-infuriating-enviros-by-building-45-new-coal-power-plants/
      via notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com blog site.

      Now Australia how can you ensure Japan gets all the coal it needs now and into the future at the right quality, time, and price?

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    • #
      ianl8888

      Lloyd’s article in the Aus is inaccurate in at least two very telling places. This is easy to check as the video of the Ebell UK press conference is linked just on the previous thread:

      1) Lloyd’s recount of the silly comments by the Channel 4 reporter is just plain made up to suit a global consensus meme. This is just an outright, knowing untruth

      2) Lloyd makes no mention of the well-known (to us) Christy graph of empirical measurements compared with model forecasts over the last 20 years. No journo in the conference acknowledged it either, even though Ebell held it up in plain view and desribed its’ information in a few succinct sentences. Again, this omission is deliberate and disgraceful.

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  • #
    tom0mason

    “It’s super-heated steam laced with hydrochloric acid from the interaction with the seawater and has shards of volcanic glass,” Ms Babb said.

    So some real acidification of the sea, albeit very local and (geologically) temporary.
    I wonder how fast the plants and animals will recover from that event? Are there researcher observing this natural lab in the making?

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  • #

    Wake up ! This is what happens when we take our eye off the ball. Volcanos are losing massive amounts of lava, not just in Hawaii but all over the globe. And especially where MAN !!! ™ puts pressure on the mantle with ‘his’ cities and roads and their fossil-fueled internal combustion engined SUVs. We can only hope and pay that Mr AlGore makes a film that alerts us to the immanent loss of lava and volcanos. It is estimated that there will be no more volcanos left to gawp at by 2037. Where is the UN when you need it?

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  • #
    Gymmie

    well you people were warned about “climate change”, and you wouldn’t listen./sarc

    20

  • #
    TdeF

    I sometimes click through that puerile nonsense which is news.com.au. Alien ate my baby, stole my boyfriend stuff
    Today though..

    People who find sound of chewing gum or pen clicking unbearable have a brain abnormality, scientists find

    Wow. Those Scientists really do stuff that matters. Why don’t we get the same earth shattering news from our very own 5,000 people in the CSIRO? Or perhaps we do?

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  • #
    TdeF

    I sometimes click through the nonsense which is news.com.au. Alien ate my baby, stole my boyfriend stuff
    Today though..

    People who find sound of chewing gum or pen clicking unbearable have a brain abnormality, scientists find

    Wow. Those Scientists really do stuff that matters. Why don’t we get the same earth shattering news from our very own 5,000 people in the CSIRO? Or perhaps we do?

    21

    • #
      TdeF

      You get the impression that these time wasters, these ‘scientists’ just do stuff for no apparent reason and then make statements about the truth, the real reason people hate others chewing gum and of course it has a deep scientific meaning and import. Years of training, special equipment, deep knowledge of the universe and its wonders go into every statement of a ‘scientist’. No one could possibly suggest the reason chewing gum is annoying is that it is just annoying.

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  • #
    RoHa

    So if all the lava inside is squirting out, how long before the Earth is empty and collapses into a pancake?

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  • #
    David Maddison

    List of things affected by Climate Change (TM).

    http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htm

    22

  • #
    Czes

    I am curious. what is the mechanism for the formation of hydrochloric acid from steam and sea water? (reference please)
    Has hydrochloric acid been identified in the ‘plume’ before and/or after contact with sea water? (reference please)

    10

    • #
      ianl8888

      The volcanic gases entrapped in the lava include SO2 and SO3, both of which dissolve in water (especially hot water) and form sulphuric acid – locally and briefly, as the ocean instantly and infinitely dilutes this.

      A simplistic explanation, but probably sufficient to allow ongoing google-type research.

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  • #
    pat

    a Sydney friend re-visited Hawaii just before Christmas, this time to do the lava walk. trouble is she fasted before the trip, to get fit for the walk, but instead passed out from heat stroke after the bicycle ride, just as they were to begin the hike! I shouldn’t laugh, but I felt it might have been fumes of some kind that knocked her out. she got diagnosed as having suffered heat stroke, and has made a full recovery. there’s a lesson in there somewhere.

    some good news, after the insane opening paras, tho no doubt Trump is a threat to the CAGW agenda:

    1 Feb: ClimateChangeNews: Megan Darby: 6 takeaways from the 2017 EU state of the energy union
    Brussels bids for climate leadership as US backs out, but stocktake shows clean energy momentum slowing and a carbon lock-in risk from gas pipelines
    Europe’s “energy union” was conceived in response to Russia’s incursion into the Ukraine, primarily to reduce reliance on gas imports from a hostile foreign power…
    As a second annual status report (LINK) came out on Wednesday, it was clear Donald Trump’s pivot on climate change had eclipsed Moscow as the main threat…
    3. Member states need to get on board
    Wind Europe points out only seven of the 28 member states have clear policies in place for renewables after 2020…
    Poland, most visibly, sees coal as its route to energy security, whatever the environmental consequences…
    5. …but gas pipelines still reign supreme…
    Sefcovic hailed progress on the Southern Gas Corridor, a controversial mega-project based on the assumption of strong gas demand.
    Analysis by think tank E3G (LINK) finds the level of demand foreseen by network companies is incompatible with climate goals…
    6. Carbon capture has stalled
    The EU requires developers of large-scale coal or gas plants to assess the feasibility of capturing its emissions and pumping them underground.
    They did so for 29 projects since 2013 and in no case did the economics stack up. Some set aside land to retrofit the technology should a higher carbon price make it viable in future…
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2017/02/01/six-takeaways-from-the-eu-state-of-the-energy-union-2017/

    2 Feb: CarbonPulse: Newly-empowered Republicans launch RGGI exit plan in New Hampshire
    A Republican lawmaker in New Hampshire has tabled a bill to that would immediately remove the US state from RGGI, in the clearest sign yet of a shifting political balance that may find the carbon market falling out of favour.

    2 Feb: CarbonPulse: US Republicans advance nomination of anti-EPA crusader Pruitt to lead agency
    A US Senate committee approved the nomination of Scott Pruitt as EPA head on Thursday after Republicans suspended the panel’s rules to surmount a Democrat boycott of the vote.

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    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      Thanks Pat,
      ‘m particularly pleased to read of Scott Pruit’s confirmation.
      Now the fun starts I suspect.
      Cheers,
      Dave B

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  • #
    pat

    3 Feb: Guardian: Michael Sleza: Turnbull’s new climate and energy adviser worked for coal industry lobby group
    Malcolm Turnbull’s next climate and energy adviser will be Sid Marris, who is leaving his role as head of climate and environment at the coal industry lobby group, the Minerals Council of Australia.
    The appointment comes amid a push from the Turnbull government for new coal-fired generators to be built, a suggestion enthusiastically welcomed by the Minerals Council.
    Marris has worked for the Minerals Council since 2008, after spending 16 years at the Australian newspaper, filling roles including Canberra bureau chief, online political editor and economic correspondent…
    Turnbull said this week the Clean Energy Finance Corporation should be able to fund new coal-fired power plant and resources minister Matthew Canavan has said the $5bn Northern Australia Infrastructure Facility was open to “clean” coal projects…
    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/feb/03/turnbulls-new-energy-adviser-worked-for-coal-industry-lobby-group?utm_source=Daily+Carbon+Briefing&utm_campaign=314cff34ae-cb_daily&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_876aab4fd7-314cff34ae-303473869

    ***how gullible are Clinton followers? no wonder they believe FakeNewsMSM:

    2 Feb: WaPo: Survey: Only a quarter of Trump voters believe in human-caused climate change
    By Chelsea Harvey
    Just 25 percent of people who voted for Donald Trump believe climate change is occurring now and is caused by human activity, according to a recent survey (LINK) by researchers from the University of New Hampshire. That’s in comparison to the ***90 percent of Hillary Clinton voters the survey says believe human-induced climate change is happening…
    Just 34 percent of respondents who voted for Trump said renewable energy should be a high priority, compared with (FAKE NEWS ALERT) 79 percent of all other respondents. And 34 percent of Trump voters said green lifestyle changes should be a high priority, compared with 63 percent of all others…

    (MORE FAKE NEWS) Overall, the survey found that about 65 percent of respondents believe in human-caused climate change. This is a slightly higher number than has been reported in other recent surveys. A study from the Pew Research Center last October found that about 48 percent of U.S. adults believe climate change is caused by human activity…
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/02/02/survey-only-a-quarter-of-trump-voters-believe-in-human-caused-climate-change/?utm_campaign=314cff34ae-cb_daily&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Daily Carbon Briefing&utm_term=.bef253d36b78

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  • #
    pat

    2 Feb: InsideClimateNews: David Hasemeyer: Rep. Lamar Smith Launches New Assault on EPA’s ‘Secret Science’
    Head of the House Science Committee calls a hearing to inquire into how the agency uses science in its decisions, part of his long battle against the agency’s work.
    Riding the current wave of hostility toward the Environmental Protection Agency, the House Science Committee has scheduled a hearing for next week to address how the agency evaluates and incorporates science into its regulatory decision-making process.
    The title of the hearing has a familiar ring: “Making the EPA Great Again.” But to scientific and environmental organizations, its echoes sound like an attack on public health and safety…READ ALL
    https://insideclimatenews.org/news/02022017/lamar-smith-epa-house-science-committee

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  • #
    DaveR

    The Hawaiian lavas are predominantly basaltic, like the Iceland lavas, the Victorian newer volcanics and many others in the world mentioned by ROM above. Basaltic lavas tend to be very hot and very fluid, and can travel great distances in thin flows.

    As lavas rise from the depths they were generated, they decompress and exsolve gasses from solution – often explosively. I think it is generally not appreciated how much gas a lava can originally have dissolved in its liquid at high pressures, only to de-gas as it approaches the surface.

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  • #
    Roy Hogue

    Kilauea is a good example of how little we can control our world and how much it can control us. That volcano has overrun a number of high price tag homes with nothing anyone could do to save them.

    I wonder what would happen if Kilauea did the explosive eruption Mount Saint Helens did. Would there be much left of the big island? How high would the tsunami wave be when it came ashore?

    Let’s put the climate change worriers to work on a real challenge and have them put a cork in that hole belching out molten rock. That should finally be something hot enough for them.

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  • #
    Dafranzl

    Beautifull! It actually spits lava since 1978. I was there on vacation and walked at his place on a black sand beach… on our departure it erupted! Only during the short time after liftoff we could see the red lava… in the 90s we returned to his place and stood on the road in front of 2 meters lava! But its better lava is coming out instead of building a storage with increasing pressure like in Yellow Stone to erupt in one big explosion

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  • #
    john

    Sorry to OT but the good folks in New Zealand (and elsewhere) had better pay attention…

    SunEdison Shareholder Uncovers Billions Of Dollars In Taxpayer Money Hidden In Bankruptcy

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/4042276-sunedison-shareholder-uncovers-billions-dollars-taxpayer-money-hidden-bankruptcy

    Summary

    Congressional investigators are examining the use of tax incentives for solar-power companies.

    SunEdison has received “the vast majority” of a $1 billion credit line the Export-Import Bank of the U.S. extended to India.

    SunEdison has been successful in bypassing Sarbanes-Oxley regulation that should be a tool to avoid a new Enron scandal.

    Shareholder Voice: SunEdison (SUNE) is the new Enron!

    https://www.equities.com/news/shareholder-voice-sunedison-sune-is-the-new-enron

    A group of shareholders for SunEdison requested attention to their investment

    I am writing to you to bring attention to the current SunEdison Chapter 11 Bankruptcy, SunEdison Prime Clerk case docket (16-10992) filed April 21, 2016 Honorable Judge Stuart Bernstein.

    We are group of over 1000 shareholders both U.S and International. We are seeking justice. We are actively searching for media’s help to get our voices heard. SunEdison is the new Enron!

    SunEdison hid its toxic financial state while granting hundreds of millions of dollars in benefits to its most powerful lenders before filing for bankruptcy. In an attempt to put off financial collapse and hide mismanagement, SunEdison gave a “sweetheart deal” to its first and second lien creditors. SunEdison replaced the lenders unsecured notes with secured debt that would give those lenders a leg up in the bankruptcy. Reference Docket # 1454

    In late March 2016, the DOJ announced that it was investigating SunEdison intercompany transactions and various financing activities. The SEC also announced that it was investigating the accuracy and transparency of the SunEdison financial statements, including as to the accuracy of the cash-on-hand reported in 2015. As of Jan 2017 DOJ and SEC have done nothing. In fact SunEdison is being allowed to sell off valuable assets for pennies on the dollar all without submitting a 10-K or 10Q since the 3rd quarter of 2015.

    To date Hundreds of shareholder letters have been written to Judge Bernstein, members of the SEC and DOJ outlining numerous inconsistencies and questions, regarding executive statements, shared financial number claims etc. with no response.

    Pelosi’s Husband Invested in Solar Firm Weeks Before Lucrative Expansion SunEdison is now eyeing bankruptcy, but Paul Pelosi invested right before a 2014 stock rally

    http://freebeacon.com/issues/pelosis-husband-invested-solar-firm-weeks-l

    Its 2014 purchase of wind energy company First Wind “further bolstered the reputation of the company,” wrote one market-watcher at the time. “Perhaps unsurprisingly, SunEdison’s stock soared an astounding 29% on news of this acquisition alone.”

    Pelosi’s husband, Paul Pelosi, had invested just in time. He bought between $100,000 and $250,000 in SunEdison stock on Oct. 24, 2014, according to congressional financial disclosures. The company announced its First Wind acquisition on Nov. 17.

    Pelosi’s office did not respond to questions about the timing of the purchase and whether she or her husband had any advance knowledge of the deal.

    Longroad looks to be bridge between pension funds and US renewables

    http://www.rechargenews.com/wind/1209647/longroad-looks-to-be-bridge-bet

    All of Longroad’s top team worked at First Wind before SunEdison’s acquisition, with Gaynor then spending a year as SunEdison’s executive vice president for global utility development before the wheels came off the US renewables giant.

    Longroad was launched with $150m of development capital from Infratil Limited, a New Zealand-based infrastructure investor, and the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, a sovereign wealth fund. The core business model is “develop and flip”, Gaynor says, and “on the development side we’re fully funded”.

    Gaynor and his team founded the company to take advantage of what he sees as an enormous opportunity to help bring more deep-pocketed institutional investors into the US renewables market.

    10

  • #
    Andrew McRae

    Jo, bet you didn’t know you’re fighting against reason. Guardian said so:

    >> Facts are the reason science is losing during the current war on reason
    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/feb/01/facts-are-the-reason-science-is-losing-in-the-current-war-on-reason-science-communication?CMP=twt_a-science_b-gdnscience

    10

    • #
      Lionell Griffith

      It looks to me the Guardian article is an attack on scientific reason rather than being in support of it. Partly because they do not define scientific reason as anything but what people who are called scientists do. No process, no tying to reality, just a floating abstraction permitting the “scientists” to do whatever it is they do.

      For example:

      “Despite the reputation for being about facts, there are very few hard facts in nature or science’s understanding of it. Take for example answering a simple question: when did the dinosaurs live? Easy, right? We must know that. We all kinda know that, so presumably the boffins have the proper technical answer. Here’s as concise as I could get it without losing my own interest:”

      The question “when did the dinosaurs live?” is not requesting fact. It is requesting an interpretation of a selected set of facts. A “fact” is a statement describing an observation within as full of context as is possible. Such as a particular fossil was recovered from a stratified layer of rock that is associated with particular minerals that we think can give us a clue as to when the fossil was formed.

      Stating that the desired date is so many mega years ago is an INTERPRETATION of a selected set of facts presumed to be relevant according to the theories held by the interpreting “scientific boffin”. That the “boffin” said so is a fact but the date is an interpretation of prior acquired facts and believed theories.

      The fundamental intellectual error clearly displayed is that fact, theory, interpretation, and the authority of the “boffin” are conflated and presumed to be an application of scientific reason. It is a failure of clearly delineated categories of thought and dropping of critical context. All supported by an apparent attention to largely irrelevant detail which gives no clue as to the truth value of the interpretation. The implication being that you, as a mere mortal non-boffin cannot possibly understand so you must accept the interpretation on faith based upon the assertion of the boffin.

      The above is nothing but the rhetorical fallacy of appeal to authority. Reason, as such, has very little to do with it. It’s “I said it. I am a boffin. Shut up and believe BECAUSE I said it.”

      If such were limited to answering the original dinosaur question, little to no harm would come of it. However, it sets the ground work for the so called settled science of “Climate Change” cause by man that is going to be catastrophic if we don’t stop the industrial revolution NOW! Reason has nothing to do with it. It is simply an assertion based upon a presumed authority.

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      • #
        Andrew McRae

        No, you didn’t understand the article. He says “By not flagging up what we don’t know here, we create a false sense of certainty that’s potentially later undermined by a new analysis, fossil discovery or alternative explanation.”
        The headline is itself an example of fake facts. What he’s saying is that hypotheses conditional on uncertain information are often presented as fact when they never were and that the experts know that they never were facts. The headline should have said “pseudo facts are the reason….” but it was sci-commed by the sub-ed.
        He’s actually saying that you, the mere mortal, should not accept such glib representations, and should chase up the source material.

        Personally I thought that’s what science communicators were supposed to do, and which Jo frequently does do, but it’s odd that he puts the responsibility on the reader not the writer while saying news sites are the worst. If it’s the responsibility of the reader, what possible value does the news site add?

        I also thought that “to know” something required direct experience of it, that all else was a belief or vicarious knowledge, but he uses “know” in connection with events of millions of years prior to humans. Just muddies the waters further.

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        • #
          Lionell Griffith

          I disagree with your analysis. It would take a PhD thesis to explain why. I may write it one day but not tonight.

          01

  • #
    Oliver K. Manuel

    That molten lava ball called Earth began accreting as a ball of iron,
    From Fe/Ni meteorites, consisting mostly of atom Fe-56,
    The atom with the minimum mass per nucleon,
    Produced near the supernova pulsar core,
    That made our elements, and
    Birthed the solar system,
    Five billion years,
    5 Ga ago.

    See Proceedings of the 1977 Robert A. Welch Conference on Cosmchemistry: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/Cosmochemistry.pdf

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    Anton

    Personally I prefer watching “close lightning strike” on YouTube… great fun hearing what people say, too.

    20

  • #
    RAH

    When are they going to start requiring Pele to buy carbon credits?

    On another tack. The images remind me of a reoccurring dream I’ve been having lately of another Kent State incident except this time there would be flame throwers melting snow flakes.

    20

  • #
    el gordo

    Alan Kohler in today’s Oz.

    ‘CEOs will be confronted with a Trump problem of their own: how to respond to America’s coming climate change U-turn.’

    20

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    pat

    u want laughs?

    particularly love when Doogue brings up the SA blackout without even mentioning the role wind power played, yet Mann clearly knows what happened and carries on regardless spruiking for renewables:

    AUDIO: 17mins28secs: 4 Feb: ABC Saturday Extra: Geraldine Doogue: The madhouse effect: climate politics in the US
    US President Donald Trump has previously has called climate change a hoax and vowed to ‘cancel’ the Paris climate agreement. The President is shifting the course of US energy policy in support of oil and gas.
    Internationally renowned climate scientist, Michael Mann is calling for scientists and the community to stand firm against climate change deniers.
    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/saturdayextra/the-madhouse-effect/8239440

    I laughed from beginning to end, without even knowing it was Mann until about half-way through. at the end, Geraldine says theirABC listener/s have asked on ABC social media that she do more on CLIMATE CHANGE. Geraldine will apparently oblige.

    two events were mentioned for Mann’s upcoming visit to our shores – this is one of them:

    Uni of Sydney: What’s On: The Madhouse Effect: Climate Change Denial in the Age of Trump
    Co-presented with the Sydney Environment Institute
    Wed 8 Feb, 6 to 7.30pm.
    Cost: Free and open to all with online registration requested
    Registration: As this event has reached capacity, registrations are now closed. We often have spare seats on the night due to late cancellations. If you could not register and would like to attend, you are welcome to join a stand-by queue at the venue…

    Professor Michael E Mann, Distinguished Professor of Atmospheric Science at Pennsylvania State University
    With the election of Donald Trump to the Presidency of the United States, it now seems climate change denial has reached into the most powerful political office in the world. In this special Sydney Ideas public lecture, world-renowned climate scientist Professor Michael Mann provides a somewhat light-hearted take on a very serious issue – the threat of human-caused climate change and what to do about it. Based on his recent collaboration with Washington Post editorial cartoonist Tom Toles, Professor Mann will review the scientific evidence of climate change, the reasons we should care, and the often absurd efforts by special interests and partisan political figures to confuse the public and attack the science.
    Despite the monumental nature of the challenge this poses to human civilization, and the seeming inability of political leadership to respond to the climate crisis, Professor Mann highlights ways forward in mitigating future harm and reasons for cautious optimism.
    Join us to discuss how climate change denial is threatening our planet, destroying our politics, and driving us crazy.
    ABOUT THE SPEAKER
    …Through his pioneering research into Earth’s climate system (including the famous ‘hockey stick graph’ of past climate patterns), he has received many honours and awards including NOAA’s outstanding publication award in 2002 and selection by Scientific American as one of the fifty leading visionaries in science and technology in 2002…
    RESPONDENT:
    Professor David Schlosberg, Professor of Environmental Politics in the Department of Government and International Relations at the University of Sydney, and Co-Director of the Sydney Environment Institute…
    http://sydney.edu.au/sydney_ideas/lectures/2017/michael_mann.shtml

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    • #
      Anton

      How interesting that Mann was invited by a professor of government and international relations rather than a professor of geology or physics.

      I think I’ll scream if I hear one more person say their offspring is doing a “Masters in international relations”. What is this non-subject doing in our universities, and why are the unis so subject to academic prostitution?

      20

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    pat

    more laughs – like Michael Mann, Sierra Club is not political!!! lol.

    Youtube: 6mins44secs: Tucker Carlson (Fox News) Takes on Sierra Club Executive Director Michael Brune
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84PGVDdTBFQ

    ***urban imperialism on display!

    3 Feb: Japan Times: Reuters: With U.S. retreat on climate change, EU looks to China
    PHOTO CAPTION: An environmental activist protests during a speech by Myron Ebell (left), who was appointed to lead U.S. President Donald Trump’s Environmental Protection Agency’s transition team, at the Solvay library in Brussels on Wednesday.
    When Myron Ebell, appointed to lead Trump’s transition team on the environment, took to a stage in Brussels on Wednesday and called climate experts “urban imperialists,” a rebuke from Britain’s former energy minister drew applause from the crowd ***packed with EU officials…
    “Can we just fill the gap? No, because we will be too fragmented and too inward-looking,” one EU official, involved in climate talks, told Reuters. “Europe will now be looking to China to make sure that it is not alone.”…

    ***Enticed by huge investments in solar and wind power in economies such as China and India, Germany, Britain and France are seeking closer ties to gain a share of the business…
    “We need to embrace the fact that China has invested very heavily in clean energy,” Gregory Barker, climate change minister to former British Prime Minister David Cameron, told Reuters on the sidelines of the environment conference in Brussels organized by conservative politicians.
    “If America won’t lead then it’s clear that China will.”…
    “If the U.S. doesn’t ***play the game, that’s a problem. But it’s a trade problem,” an EU diplomat said. “Maybe European business will win out.”…
    http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/02/03/world/politics-diplomacy-world/u-s-retreat-climate-change-eu-looks-china/#.WJUdDpLaviM

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    pat

    WOW!!! so far, of all the FakeNewsMSM Reuters’ subscribers, only Channel News Asia has picked up this story:

    3 Feb: Reuters: Exclusive: Polish ‘bluff’ in EU climate talks tests bloc’s patience
    By Alissa de Carbonnel, Brussels
    Poland is threatening to challenge a draft European Union climate law in court, EU documents seen by Reuters show, in its latest move to slow an EU campaign against global warming that Warsaw sees as a menace to its coal-powered energy industry.
    In what Polish diplomats describe as leverage for talks now under way on how to spread the burden of EU climate goals among member states, Warsaw is opposing the legal basis for the rules – a battle it could take to the European Court of Justice (ECJ)…

    Climate rules touch a raw nerve in Poland, however: Over 80 percent of its energy comes from high-polluting, coal-fired plants and the conservative Law and Justice (PiS) party, elected in 2015, campaigned on a pledge to defend the coal industry.
    Warsaw’s defiance of EU climate goals is driven by a broader anger on the part of the eurosceptic government at EU complaints that its policies are jeopardizing Polish democracy, including steps to limit the independence of the judiciary and media.
    “But to challenge the legal basis (of EU climate policy) is extreme even for Poland,” one EU official told Reuters.
    An EU document seen by Reuters, in which Poland outlines its position for other member states, takes issue with the “legal basis and global context” of the climate change draft…

    Warsaw proposes to strike from the title and preamble to the draft any mention that it aims to fulfill the EU commitment to the Paris Agreement, saying the wording is “too far-reaching” and raises doubt about the voluntary nature of the global pact.
    It also cites an article in EU treaties that says rules on a nation’s “choice between different energy sources” can only be adopted with the unanimous consent of the bloc’s 28 nations, which would bypass the EU’s environmentally-minded parliament…

    Polish diplomats pushed to append this same wording to the EU’s ratification of the December 2015 Paris accord to curb greenhouse gases.
    “We were the troublemakers there, no doubt,” a Polish diplomat said, adding that its new protest was only an opening gambit in the early stages of negotiations.
    A spokeswoman for the European Commission said it was confident of the legal grounding for its climate change bill.
    “It’s a bluff (by Poland),” said another EU official, though adding that the EU executive was still concerned it may cause market uncertainty. “The minute they get what they want, they’ll drop it. For them, it’s an issue of national pride.”
    There is precedent suggesting Poland’s action is serious:
    ***It has separately sued at the ECJ to undo an EU reform of the carbon market that adds to costs of burning fossil fuel.
    ***Under the PiS government, Poland has become the first in the EU to be put under European Commission watch to ensure it sticks to the rule of law and democratic principles…

    ***But under the shadow cast on multilateral cooperation by Trump and Brexit, some worry other EU member states will rally around Poland’s proposals to weaken climate law.
    “It’s going to be crucial that the secession of Britain doesn’t allow the less progressive voices on climate within the EU to gain traction,” said Gregory Barker, climate change minister to former British prime minister David Cameron.
    http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-poland-eu-climatechange-exclusive-idUKKBN15I2N7

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    pat

    read all:

    2 pages: 3 Feb: Forbes: Mario Loyola: Is Anything Wrong With Natural, Non-Man-Made Climate Change?
    (Mr. Loyola—author of “Twilight of the Climate Change Movement”—is senior fellow at the Wisconsin Institute for Law & Liberty)
    I recently asked an environmentalist this question: “If we found out that the planet was warming for purely natural reasons, would you be in favor of climate engineering to stop it, because the current temperature and sea level are the right ones for humans?”
    He seemed appalled. “No, of course not, man,” he said.
    “Thank you,” I said. And I meant it, because this fellow had just made a concession that is fatal to the central argument in favor of reducing carbon emissions: the risk of catastrophic climate change…
    Many climate alarmists, however, are like the fellow who unwittingly admitted that he’s not actually alarmed about climate change in and of itself, just climate change caused by human activity. The most radical of these environmentalists flatly deny that temperatures and sea levels could be rising partly for natural reasons. In other words, they deny natural climate change. Call them “climate deniers” for short, since they are denying that the climate is doing now what it has always done, namely change for natural reasons.
    Ironically enough, it turns out that these climate deniers are also science deniers…

    But the IPCC is not nearly so unequivocal about the causes. It cites human activity as the major cause of warming, but not necessarily the only cause. Scientists aren’t sure what the climate trend would be in the absence of human activity; it’s possible that carbon emissions have an even bigger warming impact than they fear, and the impact is being mostly absorbed by an underlying cooling trend; they just don’t know…
    Climate alarmists generally don’t know any of this because they’re not really afraid of climate change. What they’re afraid of is fossil fuels. Some of them have been advocating renewable fuel standards since the 1970s, when the scientific doomsday fad was imminent oil scarcity. Others are socialists like Naomi Klein, who thinks that corporations are the height of human evil. Still others are simple proponents of government regulation like you find in every sector of the economy, the agents of government’s rapacious appetite for control. And still others are underdeveloped countries whose governments see the possibility of massive redistribution in a progressive scheme of decarbonization…
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2017/02/03/is-anything-wrong-with-natural-non-man-made-climate-change/#5bd8403d33d7

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    Matty

    “”How close is that boat… camera trick?”
    No, Japanese tourists really are that enthusiastic about their craft.

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    J.H.

    But, but, but… All that pollution! The world will end!!!

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    Mike

    The thickness of earth’s crust compared to its size is proportional to the thickness of the skin of an apple except of course it ain’t an apple, it’s a blob of molten rock. The tidal forces by a near miss of a sufficiently large celestial body would probably throw the crust into chaos creating massive splits at tectonic boundaries initiating massive lava flows.

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