JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Thursday Open Thread

9.2 out of 10 based on 11 ratings

235 comments to Thursday Open Thread

  • #
    marksman

    wow first time for being first here LOL

    anyway can anyone explain to me how the variant could possibly get into Oz with all the precautions that are in place eg… negative test three hrs before boarding plane, three negative tests while in quarantine for fourteen days ect…?, this really has me stumped

    250

    • #
      Broadie

      When you work out that one you can look at the outbreak of the common cold in Antarctica

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    • #
      Strop

      The precautions are just that. Precautions. Not fool proof.

      Weak point 1.
      I believe one of the cases arrived in Aus just before the Omicron variant was formally on the alert radar.

      Weak point 2.
      The negative test close to boarding the plane is a rapid test which has reliability issues and we’re relying on other countries to ensure this is done.

      Weak point 3.
      Citizens and permanent residents who are vaccinated are only required to complete 7 days of home quarantine.

      Weak point 4.
      The 14 day hotel quarantine is only for unvaccinated arrivals. This is less of a weak point than point 3 but we’ve had a few quarantine stuff ups. Not surprising if there was another.

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      • #

        Strop- I think at the time it was 72 hours (point 3). For point 2 I would not be surprised if the rapid test is not so good at detecting omicron for reasons of specificity (but see 2b) .

        Weak point 2b – Omicron might have a long lag after infection when antibodies or virus are detectable.

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        • #
          Strop

          There’s a 72 hour travel declaration before departure. The PM announced a while ago it would be 7 day home quarantine, but said could vary by state.

          “Seven day home quarantine for Australian citizens and permanent residents fully vaccinated with a vaccine approved for use in Australia or ‘recognised’ by the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA)”

          Regardless, it is self home quarantine and it’s far less than 14 days. So is weak point. 🙂

          Fair point about the unknown behaviour of Omicron.

          50

      • #
        John+R+Smith

        1. Remain on formal mandatory perpetual alert forever.
        2. Only allow private jet international travel, and only to Davos, Climate conferences, and party islands owned by billionaires. (Travel opportunities will be available for the attractive children of the less fortunate.)
        3. Quarantine 365 until no one dies of anything but self inflicted wounds.
        4. Repeat 3.

        Net Zero

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      • #
        marksman

        what l have found out

        rapid antigen and serology tests are not accepted
        you must have a negative PCR test no more than three days before departure

        you must show evidence of being fully vaccinated at least seven days prior to departure unless you are exempt or under twelve yrs of age

        there is a mandatory fourteen day quarantine for everyone
        l know some travellers who have quarantined and were tested on day one, day five and day nine before they were allowed to leave as a person with a negative result of infection,

        non-Australian travellers need an exemption to come into Australia even if they are vaccinated with a recognised vaccine

        https://www.health.gov.au/news/health-alerts/novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-health-alert/coronavirus-covid-19-travel-and-restrictions/international-travel-and-covid-19/coronavirus-covid-19-faqs-international-travellers-to-australia#quarantine

        https://www.health.gov.au/news/health-alerts/novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-health-alert/coronavirus-covid-19-travel-and-restrictions/international-travel-and-covid-19#Pre-departure%20testing%20when%20leaving%20Australia

        l am struggling with the idea that a PCR test would not be able to recognise a variant of covid?
        if so the positive cases would still have been treated as covid so would not have been let into the population

        so l am not convinced there could be a way the variant or any covid for that matter could escape into the country
        l am still stumped LOL

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        • #

          Two possibilities with the variant recognition by PCR.

          1. A change in the target sequence that is homologous to the specific primers (layman’s summary – a mutation in the new variant means the test doesn’t work).
          2. The new variant is not present in the upper respiratory tract collection areas for some longer period after infection while at the same time not causing symptoms.

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          • #

            The South Africans had no problem picking it up with the regular PCR test.
            It was further anyalysis of positive results that identified the new strain.

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            • #
              marksman

              exactly Chad
              the PCR test does not identify the variant, it cannot, just that a corona virus is present
              so after so much scrutiny how does this variant or any variant of corona virus enter the country?

              100

              • #

                Gee Aye is right.

                The PCR test has a few false negatives and that rate may climb with new variants.

                A PCR test three days before flying doesn’t stop one person catching it the next day and spreading it on the plane.

                Someone who catches it on the plane won’t test positive for probably a couple of days.

                There are gaps all through the current “new” NSW system and it was 100% obvious that once the two week quarantine stopped we would catch all new spreadable mutants as soon as they were on a plane.

                Same for SA. How many days did it take once the borders were relaxed for the virus to turn up in the SA parliament? Was that one week or two?

                21

              • #
                marksman

                l’m replying to myself as Jo’s response has no reply LOL

                l agree the PCR shows false negatives as well as false positives,
                l know many people who have had false positive tests in fact the positive tests that were a true positive have been very rare

                but we are not talking about just one test that a person will have to prove to be negative to be able to get through the protocols and into the country as well as the tests are done over time, the odds that someone could trick the tests is hard to believe

                the PCR test gives an amplification of genetic material so that even a small amount of coronavirus genes in the patient’s sample can be detected, if it is a corona virus it will show, the variant would not have anything to do with it

                the virus cannot just walk into the country can it?

                10

              • #

                mm… the variant can have something to do with it – it is possible to evade the PCR test through mutation although I am not saying that this was so in this case.

                As Jo says someone could have tested negative while in the earliest stages of infection when a swab may not get any virus.

                00

              • #
                marksman

                so are you saying that a mutation stops the variant from being a coronavirus?
                this is the genetic material the PCR test is looking for, PCR tests cannot tell different variants
                as l said, in several tests, four tests that l know of, over a two and a half week period?
                sorry but l cannot see this to be a reliable explanation
                my scepticism is very high

                00

              • #

                No. PCR targets two small bits (about 20 nucleotides long) of genetic material in order to amplify the nucleotides between them (this amplified fragment might be 100 nucleotides long for instance). Amplification per se is enough to say virus is present but there are also characteristics of the 100 long fragment that are distinctive. Mutations within this fragment wont stop PCR but could change characteristics though the chances of this are small.

                If a mutation occurs in one of the small bits that are targeted it can make the amplification impossible (there are a couple of ways for this if you want more detail). A single mutation can do this. This lack of amplification does not mean that the virus ceases to be a coronavirus.

                I don’t believe that this is very likely, and I just put it forward as one possible explanation, and I prefer the false negative due to other reasons as Jo outlined. One reason it is unlikely is that the PCR test is designed to target a very conserved region of the genome. A region which the designers of the test suspect is evolutionarily constrained. ie mutations in this region will likely have a negative affect on the virus’s survivability.

                00

              • #
                Graeme No.3

                Jo,
                one week. Mind you the members had been weakened by months of hysteria.

                00

            • #
              mobihci

              yep, I saw a pic of a test done with multiple rapid covid tests available now all showing positive with omicron. the pcr obviously does as well, if you look for the right thing.

              time will tell with omicron, looking at most of the fast movers here –

              https://nextstrain.org/groups/neherlab/ncov/21K?l=clock

              they die off quickly, but if you scroll down a bit on that page, you can see the frequency and delta has gone from 90% to 71% in a month! probably due to the fact that 74% of sequences done in South Africa are now omicron.

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        • #
          mobihci

          well, i suppose the question of vaccine efficacy has been answered –

          https://www.coronaheadsup.com/coronavirus/norway-omicron-superspreader-event-sees-about-40-fully-vaccinated-people-infected/

          it seems they were all tested pre party, all vaccinated and 30-40 of the 100 got infected. with so many infected, you would have to consider the vaccines useless.

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          • #

            This is my impression from various reports- and it will be good to see a drill down study on clinical data- is that vaccinated people get the omicron virus but not the disease.

            That report lacked an indication of the circumstances of the infections.

            11

            • #
              yarpos

              As its so trivial who cares?

              00

              • #

                What we need from the Norway story is a timeframe on how long ago those people were vaccinated. How long do the vaccines work against Omicron? (If the vaccines work much or at all?).

                Were most of these people vaccinated six months ago, or were some still in the early short honeymoon period?

                This example is very interesting, I just want more…

                00

      • #
        Bozotheclown

        Whoa! What about vaccination status? Got to assume that these travelers were vaxed already right?

        Ohmygod variant can’t be that far mutated.

        00

    • #
      Steve of Cornubia

      Easy.

      The ‘restrictions’ only ever applied to the plebs. Throughout most of the pandemic, so-called travel restrictions meant nothing if you were a celebrity, a sports star, a movie star or just plain rich. Quarantine rules too were bent by the same people, who ‘isolated’ in holiday resorts complete with staff. Likewise, mask mandates were largely ignored by our betters, from small-time pollies here in Oz to Saints Obama and Pelosi in America.

      But look on the bright side. The OmiGod variant is apparently extra scary because it was mutated within an AIDS sufferer. If so then perhaps virus that have been funneled through the likes of Hollywood stars, then passed on to the little people, might endow us with a teeny bit of their wisdom, virtue and saintliness?

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    • #
      William Astley

      Logically the answer to your question is dependent on the origin of Omicron. Natural vs Manmade.

      It is interesting that Omicron developed from a different strain than the Delta covid variation. Omicron ‘developed’ from an earlier strain of covid. How can that happen, naturally/physically?

      The fake news started the hypothesis that Omicron developed in a human, in South Africa, that could not ‘shake’ covid …. Bingo after months and months battling a strain of pre-Delta covid…. The magic person produces a highly evolved strain of pre-Delta covid… In the magic person’s body, the pre-Delta strain of covid, develops 32 modifications, to the covid spike, to produce covid Omicron. There are two problems for the Omicron natural mechanism. It has to have pre-Delta covid and it must have a great deal of modifications to the deadly spike.

      If Omicron was natural it would have evolved from covid-Delta which is circulating covid. Omicron has 32 modification to the covid spike, which is the dangerous part of covid.

      It is interesting also that Omicron maybe less not more deadly than covid-Delta. If that is not fake news, it is possible we may have some secret allies.

      This an update of Wade’s summary of the evidence/logic to support a manmade origin for covid-19.
      https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-people-or-nature-open-pandoras-box-at-wuhan/

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      • #
        Analitik

        It is interesting that Omicron developed from a different strain than the Delta covid variation. Omicron ‘developed’ from an earlier strain of covid. How can that happen, naturally/physically?

        There are many variants that have branched off from the original Wuhan (lab) strain. Most are not assigned Greek letters as they are not “variants of concern” due to their transmissibility, serious of infection and/or (gasp) immune escape from the vaccines. The Delta variant is widespread but far from universal. Omicron just happened to mutate further from one of the non-concerning variants (due to not meeting any of the mentioned criteria) into having characteristics of concern.

        The mildness of Omicron’s effects on the infected and its likely level of vaccine immune escape (the horror) may well be due to the theory that the it evolved in someone with AIDS who was under treatment with monoclonal antibodies and/or was vaccinated. For the mutation to survive and be able to be transmitted, its effects would have to be mild else the weak immune system of the index patient would have failed and he/she would have died. The high number of mutations around the spike protein would be due to the selection pressure of the monoclonal antibodies and/or vaccine generated antibodies. The high transmissibility would be a bonus fitness mutation that allowed it to spread from the index patient and displace Delta in the population pool.

        The large number of AIDS infections in sub-Saharan Africa would have given plenty of opportunities for set of mutations like this to occur in a country where ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine were not in use for parasitic disease control (counting malaria as a parasitic disease).

        80

        • #
          mawm

          After Delta became the “variant of concern” everybody suddenly assumed that every infection was Delta.

          Given the nature of the southern African populations, the low vaccination rates, the mobility of certain sections such as the truck drivers moving from Durban northwards through SA, Botswana, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Malawi, etc. and their use of hostels and prostitutes, it is a Petri dish for mutations. How many people would the virus have passed through collection mutation after mutation before it became what it is? How many more variants are out there with mild symptoms that are not being identified? Quite honestly of the nations named above only South Africa has the medical infrastructure to do the testing.

          I don’t understand the repeated comments about HIV and carona virus cross mutations. Do they Really occur?

          30

          • #
            Analitik

            Please read my comment again. It’s not about HIV and corona virus cross mutations.
            HIV weakens immune systems which sets up a selection pressure for a milder mutation.

            1. Most people with AIDS die quickly from CoViD as their HIV weakened immune system gets quickly overwhelmed.
            2. This selection pressure and normal mutations will result in a few of these people developing a mutation that is milder so they live
            3. This is more likely if their immune system gets support from spike protein antibodies whether from monoclonal IV or vaccination (if they survive that) and this creates a further selection pressure to evade (or hijack via ADE) the antibodies
            4. To then become dominant, further mutation for higher tranmissibility must also occur.

            The odds of these 3 mutations occurring along the same branch are low but that’s where the prevalence of HIV in the region helps the odds. Roll the dice enough and as long as there are enough in the population to exert the selection pressure, the result is possible.

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            • #

              Mawn, the point about HIV is like organ transplant patients, their reduced immunity means it’s possible for the virus to live on in them for a long time. They can’t quite extinguish it.

              In that situation the virus is mutating daily, ticking over, and has been recorded in one or two patients going through nearly every common mutation in the one patient over 150 days of infection.

              But it still takes a “luck” factor to create a variant that spreads faster than Delta. The right mutations have to occur in the same virus at an opportune time.

              If we are lucky this virus may have mutated in hundreds of people who weren’t given any antibodies or vaccination.

              I hoped the next variant would come from Africa.

              It’s not necessarily party time yet though. we need that data on hospitalizations and severity.

              10

          • #
            Bozotheclown

            mawm, you have answered the question in my mind and that is why are so many people from all around the world hopping around a part of the world that otherwise aint so great to visit. Hostels and the oldest profession on the planet and probably more twisted that I like to imagine.

            The perfect place to exploit if you wanted to spread disease.

            00

      • #
        Ian

        “The “fake news” started the hypothesis that Omicron developed in a human, in South Africa, that could not ‘shake’ covid …. ”

        It seems the “fake news” may have been wrong as the omicron coronavirus variant was already in the Netherlands a week before South Africa reported the new variant to the World Health Organization, according to a Dutch health agency.

        The variant was recently identified in retests of samples that were taken on Nov. 19 and 23, the National Institute for Public Health and the Environment, or RIVM, announced on Tuesday.

        Revelations about the variant’s existence in Europe before it was reported in Africa add a new twist to questions about where and how the variant originated — and whether travel bans on South Africa and its neighbors are an appropriate response to the variant.”

        That suggests the role of AIDS might be less significant than originally thought

        https://www.npr.org/2021/11/30/1060025081/omicron-variant-netherlands-europe-south-africa

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        • #
          Analitik

          It seems the “fake news” may have been wrong as the omicron coronavirus variant was already in the Netherlands a week before South Africa reported the new variant to the World Health Organization, according to a Dutch health agency.

          That proves precisely nothing. The Omicron variant was almost certainly misdiagnosed as non-CoViD for a period because the symptoms were so mild and the health authorities in the sub-Saharan less resourced for testing.

          Your theory would be like saying CoViD originated in Italy because back sampling of sewage showed the presence of SARS-CoV-2 fragments prior to the Chinese informing the world of the Wuhan outbreak in December 2019

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          • #
            Ian

            “Your theory would be like saying CoViD originated in Italy because back sampling of sewage showed the presence of SARS-CoV-2 fragments prior to the Chinese informing the world of the Wuhan outbreak in December 2019”

            I don’t have a theory just a suggestion that the “fake news” may, repeat may, have been wrong nothing more than that.

            Your comparison with sewage back sampling in Italy is hardly relevant as the Omicron virus was found in two Dutch test samples from November 19 and 23, with one having no travel history. In addition German authorities said they had an Omicron infection in a man who had neither been abroad nor had contact with anyone who had been. These instances are totally different from sewage sampling.

            07

            • #
              Analitik

              Your twisted scenario has the South African (& Botswana) health department outperforming those of the Netherlands and other European countries in terms of detection and diagnosis.

              Sure.

              40

              • #
                Ian

                “Your twisted scenario has the South African (& Botswana) health department outperforming those of the Netherlands and other European countries in terms of detection and diagnosis.”

                Not sure you have understood “my twisted scenario” which is in fact not my “twisted scenario”at all just passing on information from other sources, as you write “outperforming those of the Netherlands and other European countries in terms of detection and diagnosis.”. How can you come to that conclusion when I stated the Dutch and Germans claim to have identified the variant, now referred to as Omicron, before the South Africans? It appears the variant was present in a sample received in SA on November 9 but which was not reported until November 24. If so then the South Africans were first to identify the new variant did not report it for a fortnight

                Thinking a little more on your anxiety about these mutations in Omicron, 50+ overall with 32 in the spike protein, I suspect you are loathe to accept they occurred naturally. To do so kicks a prop from under the claim that the 12 base mutation in the initial virus could not have occurred naturally so must have been due to human intervention.

                Was the Omicron variant created by human intervention? If so by whom? The South Africans? That seems unlikely although not impossible.

                However if the Omicron mutations are natural then the theory that the mutations in the initial virus could not have occurred naturally is clearly incorrect.

                The quotation from “Mrs Robinson” “every way you look at it’ seems fitting”

                01

              • #
                Analitik

                The German and Dutch authorities only identified Omicron samples retrospectively AFTER the South Africans informed them of the new variant and its characteristics.

                And look at my comment above about the selection pressures from HIV and Wuhan spike antibodies for providing the path for the evolution of the Omicron variant. I have never stated that it was engineered.

                The original Wuhan variant, on the other hand, has no selection pressure path at all for the mutation from the candidate RatG13 coronavirus, which was only ever presented as a very unlikely gene sequence with no samples ever provided.

                Keep trying – your stupidity is entertaining.

                10

              • #
                Ian

                “The German and Dutch authorities only identified Omicron samples retrospectively AFTER the South Africans informed them of the new variant and its characteristics.”

                But the South Africans did not report on the variant til November 24 which was after the Dutch announced their findings. How do you explain that?

                In a previous comment you wrote “Your twisted scenario has the South African (& Botswana) health department outperforming those of the Netherlands and other European countries in terms of detection and diagnosis.”

                Here you are stating that in fact they did. Which is it?

                You state

                “Keep trying – your stupidity is entertaining.”

                In response I have to say “Which is more than can be said for your inconsistency which is stupefyingly boring as is your ignorance that evidence of ADE has not emerged for COVID-19 vaccines even though concerns have been raised.

                I won’t suggest you keep trying as you clearly are failing to succeed. Why not try some other topic more suited to your “talents”. Basket weaving perhaps?

                04

              • #
                Analitik

                Here you go, you tool

                It was identified in two test samples taken in the country between 19 and 23 November, which is before the variant was first reported by South Africa.

                They back tested samples taken prior to the South African notification of the variant.

                https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59473131

                The rest of your comment is as nonsensical as your claim about European discovery of the Omicron variant.

                20

              • #
                Analitik

                And further to the point, from that same BBC article

                However, while the two new samples reveal Omicron was in the Netherlands earlier than thought, they do not predate the cases in southern Africa. The variant was first found in a specimen collected on 9 November, according to the World Health Organization (WHO).

                Go back under your bridge

                20

      • #
        Chris

        Israeli studies published a few months ago showed that people who had HIV, cycled in and out of being positive for covid. Each time they tested positive it was with a new variant created within their body. Sometimes symptoms were mild and other times the patient was quite ill. The Israeli scientists said covid would never be eliminated because HIV positive people would remain a reservoir . This came from The Jerusalem Post.

        60

        • #
          Bozotheclown

          That is sobering news Chris.
          Didn’t someone say that Fauchi was deeply involved in AIDS? As in Volleyball: volley, set, spike.

          Pardon the pun on spike

          00

    • #
      farmerbraun

      How can it be proved that Omicron has not been around for months at least?

      60

      • #
        Forrest Gardener

        It would depend on genomic testing.

        And the follow up question is what level of genomic testing has been done in various places and at various times.

        Which leads to another follow up question which is what proportion of positive PCR tests are even fit for genomic testing.

        My hunch is that it is not known as the OhMyGod variant or the MidTermElection variant for nothing. Then again there is plenty more in the lab where the original virus was manufactured.

        10

      • #
        William Astley

        In reply to “How can it be proved that Omicron has not been around for months at least?”

        Because the Omicron covid strain is the dominating strain of covid. Omicron is replacing Delta in South Africa. When Delta come to our countries it quickly became the dominate strain.

        There is limited time for the non-dominating covid strains to evolve in humans.

        Here is a different ‘paradigm’ in which to think about Omicron and its origins. The ‘Designer’ of covid could stop the deadly Delta covid strain…. …..by in advance of the release of covid by developing a version of covid that was more contagious than covid but not as deadly.

        There is insufficient time for Omicron to evolve in humans, to have 32 modifications to the covid spike and in addition to become more contagious than the highly contagious Delta version of covid.

        20

    • #
      Leo G

      … explain to me how the variant could possibly get into Oz with all the precautions that are in place …

      A person could be exposed to the virus and have airway tissue infected at close to the threshold level for sustainable infection. Subsequently, some factor affecting their natural immunity varies and the infection proceeds in the normal way (except that the person is more likely to remain asymptomatic).

      20

      • #
        John+R+Smith

        Edgar Allan Poe wrote a short story about Australia, ‘The Mask of the Red Death’.

        00

      • #
        marksman

        knowing that the PCR cycle’s are very high resulting in any particle being declared a positive case showing PCR tests having inflated numbers of positive cases, false positives, it would be hard to think that in several PCR tests done on different days would not show up a positive test Leo G
        sorry but l’m still not convinced

        10

    • #
      yarpos

      because a virus doesn’t always work to our timelines
      because people controlling entry are lax , incompetent or just make a human error
      because people lie
      because people get in illegally
      because assorted people get special treatment

      10

      • #
        KP

        Not to mention thousands of tons of cargo being delivered to Oz every day. A sailor sneezed on your container, a wharfie overseas did it too, your imported food was handled by an infected person.. There are lots of ways in apart from infected people getting off planes.

        Who bought the 1917 flu to NZ?? The boats bringing soldiers home were meant to hove offshore while quarantining, but some politician on board one was anxious to get back.. Human nature doesn’t change.

        00

  • #
    beowulf

    Greg Hunt is tipped to leave politics at the 2022 election.

    It will be interesting to see where he ends up. Back to his real love at the WEF with Schwab, or will he hang around here as their local rep, orchestrating the Great Reset in Oz?

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10261063/Greg-Hunt-quit-politics-20-years-Covid-pandemic.html

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    • #
      Broadie

      will he hang around here as their local rep, orchestrating the Great Reset in Oz?

      ‘Orchestrating’ is a slight error unless that definition includes manic arm waving, otherwise the best bet. Hunt is escaping before the National level organisational team for our ‘Annus Horribilus’ is hung out to dry by the Dear Leaders.
      The band will not be an Orchestra in Australia it will be Midnight Oil reforming for their ……. wait for it…… ‘Reset’ tour in February. With that in mind and just a guess, 22/2/2022 would be a significant date for the launch of our ‘You will own nothing and you will be happy’ lifestyle. The funny co-incidences for me are three people in different industries have told me the product they are waiting for has an expected delivery date of 22/2/2022.

      That gives us 73 days by my calculation till 2009JF1 arrives to bring down the regime. What are the chances of that?

      But there is also good news as the odds of the asteroid hitting us have been calculated to be about 1/3985 or 0.025%

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    • #
      David Maddison

      Maybe a lobbying job with Big Pharma?

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      • #
        David Maddison

        After all, Hunt has proven his loyalty to Big Pharma by banning HCQ and Ivermectin for covid treatment and prophylaxis, an action unique in the world plus supported turning Australia into a dictatorship to fight a virus. Plus he has not said a word about Vit D or zinc supplementation. A more loyal and committed puppet could not be found.

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      • #
        Analitik

        He could well double up as a lobbyist for the renewables given his previous portfolio under the Turncoat government.

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    • #
      Gary S

      Difficult to believe that the federal Health Minister would even consider bailing out in the midst of the most frightening pandemic ever, with a constant barrage of ‘variants’ of an increasingly armageddon-inducing nature, isn’t it?

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      • #
        David Maddison

        I’m sure the Elites have something special in mind for us.

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      • #

        Maybe he just wants a relatively normal life, out of the Zoo of Canberra politics.
        He has a young family, and realises he cannot do justice to both his responsibilities.
        Given the choice between a future in Politics, or a happy family life, ..what would you choose ??

        10

        • #
          yarpos

          After I had enough years in and a ministerial pension locked in in would have to be the latter , if I lacked the ambition or opportunity for being PM.

          10

    • #
      Destroyer D69

      Hunts Bio…. An excercise in “Figjammery”???? https://www.greghunt.com.au/about-greg/biography/

      51

  • #
    beowulf

    India: no vax = no food = no coercion.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ag7fOthBM8

    “Police won’t enforce the mandates!” … but they won’t need to, as groceries and fuel are being withheld from those who fail to get their shots in Aurangabad, India.

    As Henry Kissinger warned, “Control food, and you control people.”

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    • #
      OldOzzie

      no coercion.

      “PureBlood” but not anti-vax – waiting for Novavax as it is similar to Pneumococcal Vaccines, of which I have had 3, as well as Senior’s Flu Vax late April, every year for the past 11 years.

      However the Pressure/Coercion to have Covid Vax is enormous – at hospital every 3 weeks for past 2 years, last time “Pure Blood” – ie Unvaccinated myself and another lady who came in at the same time who was also unvaccinated were put into private rooms

      When I asked Cancer Nurse who was looking after me re logic she said “Bloody Stupid don’t get me started on the idiocy of the Administrators on this”

      For next round next Tuesday, for the first time ever I have to have a PCR Test Sunday (72 hours before) (notwithstanding living in a blended 3 generation family with Grandkids 7/8/9 – 5-8-10 Years who are always ill and getting PCR Tests – all negative – I am the healthiest person in the family and have been taking antivirals for over 1 1/2 years) – Interesting that Hospital Pre Op Admissions on Monday, only said to get tested if in critical area.

      HiFi shop notified me X Box Series X Console available yesterday (have been chasing for over a year) but unable to enter shop as unvaccinated, so my wife kindly came along and entered shop and purchased for me.

      My elder sister passed away on weekend – had been only able to facetime with her in Hospital through Nephew and Brother-in-law, as unvaccinated unable to visit – her daughter is totally Anti-Vax and was unable to visit.

      Nephew has been keeping my wife up to date re Funeral, as only 10 people allowed in, if unvaccinated present, I have said, as my Sister and her Husband had many friends, to go ahead with full funeral without myself – Nephew had been looking at deferring till 15 Dec when in theory Unvaccinated in NSW unlocked, but Funeral homes and Churches said unvaccinated rules will probably continue.

      Her Daughter similarly is unable to attend Funeral.

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      • #
        Glenn

        Tough times Old Ozzie. Sorry to hear about your Sister. I’ll be banned from seeing my Mother come December 17th, as Aged Care facilities will not admit the unvaxxed. But…they can push all they like, I won’t be taking the chemical experiment.

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      marksman

      globalist Schwab from the world economic forum was apparently Kissinger’s apprentice
      there has been a hell of a lot of work done toward the new world order rubbish
      yet we are still called conspiracy theorists although they are not hiding what they are trying to do
      you will own nothing but you will be happy LOL

      https://www.facebook.com/worldeconomicforum/photos/1980-nobel-peace-prize-laureate-henry-kissinger-predicts-a-period-of-global-turm/10150256457161479/

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    • #
      Klem

      “..as groceries and fuel are being withheld from those who fail to get their shots in Aurangabad, India”

      This is the social credit system, plain and simple. It is the end goal of vaccine passport.

      30

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    Fran

    A new category of victimhood seems to have emerged from the covid scare. This is the person who claims to have “comorbidities” that make them nearly certain to end up in intensive care at the very least. when the vaccine rollout began, they believed that their need to be sooner than their designated cohort, and they religiously follow all “guidance” and rules. They get very angry at anyone pointing out that the mortality from covid is not as great as the MSM makes it out.

    Interestingly, it is the non-obese who play this game most, while the obese suffer in silence because their risk factors are socially supposed to be due to their own fault.

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    Travis T. Jones

    According to our elitist politicians of all stripes, these are are far right wing extremists, racists … redneck deplorables …

    https://7news.com.au/news/wa/covid-mandate-protest-sees-1000-wa-workers-take-to-steps-of-parliament-house-c-4773991

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      OldOzzie

      A Eureka flag moment — but only if Peter FitzSimons approves

      The Mocker

      Last Saturday, 20,000 Victorians marched in Melbourne’s CBD in the latest protest over the Andrews government’s pandemic measures. The protesters, The Age reported, were “colourful, vocal but peaceful”. Just as they were the weekend before when 100,000 of them lined the city’s streets.

      Noting the media’s tendency to focus disproportionately on fringe elements, the newspaper’s veteran crime reporter and author John Silvester pointed out what many commentators had ignored. “This disguises the fact that many who have taken to the street are rational, law-abiding people, angry at lockdowns, concerned at the erosion of civil liberties and tired of feeling their views don’t matter,” he wrote last week.

      But for Sydney Morning Herald columnist and chair of the Australian Republic Movement, Peter FitzSimons, it was plebeian vulgarity at its worst. Not only were the demonstrators “low-minded” and “driven by selfishness alone,” he tweeted on Saturday, but they also had the temerity to appropriate colours he considers his own. “As one who wrote a book on Eureka, I say the mighty Eureka flag does not belong in that collection of assorted nutters,” he indignantly proclaimed. “Eureka was about collective action of high-minded people for the greater good of all.”

      What is not in issue is that days before the uprising culminated in mass slaughter, the Irish-born Peter Lalor delivered his famous Bakery Hill speech in which he urged the rebel miners to “fight to defend our rights and liberties.” Likewise, the “freedom protests” of late have demanded the same in the wake of what has been the biggest restriction of civil liberties in Victoria post-WWII.

      Yet FitzSimons maintains there is no resemblance between the “high-minded” protests of 1854 and the “low-minded” ones of recent weeks. Presumably, he would also argue that if Lalor were alive today, he would say the same when he addressed the workers.

      Despite his claims otherwise, FitzSimons is not the moral arbiter of who has the right to display the Eureka flag. As a Sydney Morning Herald contributor noted in 2013 in a review of ‘Eureka: The Unfinished Revolution’, FitzSimons has a “tendency to play fast and loose with the historical record”. As one who has long suffered his scribblings, I know that only too well.

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      • #
        KP

        Fitzsimons is a clown, one of quite a lot at SMH! If they had open comments like Jo does here I’m sure a lot of people would tell him that too!

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  • #
    David Maddison

    With a massive space program, including the illegal militarisation of space, how does China get to retain its “Third World / developing country” status and therefore unlimited CO2 production* while the West has to destroy its economies by curtailing proper energy production to be replaced by intermittent and expensive Chinese windmills and solar panels.

    *Not that CO2 is a problem.

    Eh, what????

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    • #
      David Maddison

      President Trump realised the insanity of giving billions of dollars to nuclear weapon possessing and space faring nation Pakistan, who is also a major enemy of the United States and the West and stopped the cash.

      The Biden regime, consistent with their policy to destroy the US and the West is starting to fund them again.

      No surprise there!

      https://www.dawn.com/news/1626456

      WASHINGTON: In its first budget, for fiscal year 2022, the Biden administration also seeks money for providing economic and social support to Pakistan and for training Pakistani military personnel.

      SEE LINK FOR REST

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        Gerry

        “The Biden regime, consistent with their policy to destroy the US and the West is starting to fund them againg”. Should read “ The Biden regime, consistent with their policy to reverse and destroy all Trump policies””

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    • #

      Is simple. The “developed” countries are those named in annex 1 of the 1992 UN Framework Convention on Climate Change, as modified slightly by the 1997 Kyoto Protocol thereto. Adding China would require the consent of all the near 200 countries that are members of the UNFCCC, including China, so will not happen. I think China has said they will not take a share of the mythical $100 billion a year promised to the developing countries. (China’s electric power production exceeds the E.U., UK AND USA combined so they may well be the world’s biggest economy, but not yet on a per capita basis.)

      They have committed under the UNFCCC to hit net zero emissions by 2060 so their emissions are by no means unlimited in fantasyland, just in reality.

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        David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

        G’day D W,
        ” …committed under the UNFCCC to hit net zero emissions by 2060… ”
        I doubt that’s even an aspirational hope, due for revision in 2060, to China’s benefit. Keeps the believers happy.
        Cheers
        Dave B

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        • #

          In India’s case it is very aspirational. They say they require a trillion dollars by 2030 from us in order to hit their 2070 net zero target. They aspire to our money!

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    MrGrimNasty

    GBNews Trump interview.

    https://youtu.be/VQhBxeCaS-k

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    • #

      My great fear is that Trump will not get the Republican nomination next election, so will form his own party as Teddy Roosevelt did under similar circumstances. This will split the vote so badly that the miserable Democrat candidate will win with relatively few votes.

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        Mark Allinson

        The last (stolen) election has proved that a second Trump run would be utterly futile.

        Not only would most of the elite professional class be working to undermine his administration, as they did last time, but so too would a sizeable part of the Globalist GOP.

        The Dems, now working avidly to Venezuela-ise the US, would merely step up the destruction if it looked like Trump was making headway.

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      RickWill

      Good interview – It is nice to see Farage getting in front of media.

      First time that GBNews has entered my realm – looks good. I wonder if they are approaching the CO2 is bad belief.

      60

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      RickWill

      Since Twitter banned Trump, its share price went from USD77 down to USD43 now. No wonder the CEO has moved aside – not sure if he was sacked.

      The think about social media is that it is highly democratic. Every individuals choice has the ability to bestow value or destroy value. Being on Trump’s side appears to bestow value in the real world.

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    RickWill

    The modern paradox – wealth creation with low carbon footprint.

    The new generation are building the metaverse.

    There are a few companies in the world valued at USD2tr today. Some will probably come to mind – for example Alphabet crossed that line not long ago after just 23 years of existance. However that is the old economy. The global crypto economy crossed the USD3tr mark in just 13 years – viewed as a company, it is now the world’s biggest.
    https://www.techcircle.in/2021/11/09/global-crypto-economy-crosses-3-tn-making-it-larger-than-world-s-biggest-companies

    Record rallies from Bitcoin (BTC) and Ethereum (ETH), arguably two of the world’s most prominent cryptocurrencies, have seen the valuation of the global crypto economy cross a staggering $3 trillion for the very first time.  
    This makes the cryptocurrency market officially larger than the biggest public companies in the world, and what makes this feat even more staggering is how the crypto growth has come in a much shorter span of time – in comparison to what the traditional companies have spent to hit their highest valuations. 

    Who knows what an NFT is?

    Is gold obsolete?

    The metaverse is the means that the next generation is exploring to operate creatively in a low carbon environment. The folly with the high carbon footprint of Bitcoin has been recognised and will gradually be corrected. But the currencies are only the beginning of the metaverse.

    The enabling technologies for NFTs now exist and will be refined. It is indeed a new world order. It is a world of experimentation and democracy where individual choices define value. It is redefining value.

    Facebook’s name change indicates they want to be a leader in the metaverse. Others are also very active in this new space.

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      el+gordo

      In the new world order capitalism is changing for the better.

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        RickWill

        It appears that the REAL NWO is not what the rich and famous have in mind. I expect there will be a whole new breed of rich and famous working in the metaverse.

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      yarpos

      “The enabling technologies for NFTs now exist and will be refined.” techno babble drivel, the tech has been around for a long time. It only took the idea to take root and for there to be too much money sloshing around in the system looking for something to buy. Great way to launder money though.

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    Brenda Spence

    Uh oh, the vaccines arent working…

    High COVID-19 vaccination rates were expected to reduce transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in populations by reducing the number of possible sources for transmission and thereby to reduce the burden of COVID-19 disease. Recent data, however, indicate that the epidemiological relevance of COVID-19 vaccinated individuals is increasing.

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00258-1/fulltext?s=08#main-menu

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      Forrest Gardener

      Just remember Brenda that government happy clappers around the world have incessantly told their victims, er make that citizens, that the injections are safe and effective. Safe and effective so get yours now. Safe and effective so join them in the vaccinated economy. Safe and effective so you’ll have yours now if you know what’s good for you. Safe and effective so there’s no need for actual vaccines or antivirals or actual infectious status.

      Criminally in my view the happy clappers oversold their snake oil. They were never safe, certainly not safe for the people who died after having injections. And at best they were partially effective in that a significant proportion of injected people developed milder symptoms.

      And like a carpenter whose only tool is a hammer everything looks like a nail and the government happy clappers want another round of injections just because the first lot worked so well. After all this isn’t really happening because the first lot were safe and effective – until they weren’t.

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        Mark Allinson

        “Safe and effective …”

        And there is proof of this claim in last weekend’s media – ads from the Federal Government in the Tele make it quite clear:

        “ALL VACCINES HAVE BEEN APPROVED AND RIGOROUSLY TESTED TO AUSTRALIA’S HIGH SAFETY STANDARDS”

        So any complaints about safety can be dismissed as “disinformation.”

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        Pauly

        The link below contains a very concerning analysis of COVID vaccine adverse effects in the US:

        https://realclimatescience.com/2021/11/patterns-of-deployment-of-toxic-covid-vaccine-batches/

        I’m making no claims to the veracity of the analysis, as no source information was provided. However, if the data did come from the VAERS database, the analysis should be capable of being replicated. I don’t agree with many of the conclusions of the “author” but the underlying evidence would appear to be conclusive.

        5% of mRNA batches resulted in excessively large numbers of adverse affects. 95% were entirely safe. What differences existed between “safe” batches and “toxic” batches? Are these differences due to failures of production quality control or intentional? Why would the companies keep releasing tainted batches, after initial adverse affects localised problems to individual batches? And this really evidence of collusion between major drug companies?

        If there is any truth to this video, something really bizarre is happening in the world of mRNA vaccine development.

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  • #
    RickWill

    The new social media laws will have an impact on this and every other internet blog. There will no longer be a “Peter Fitzroy” with a myriad of email addresses. People may choose to maintain their “handle” but JoNova will need a full name and address of commenters to avoid carrying the risk of litigation.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-28/social-media-laws-online-trolls/100657004

    Social media companies would also be made legally liable for the content they publish from users, removing liability from individuals and companies that manage pages.

    The legislation will be released in draft form this week, and is expected to be introduced to parliament early next year.

    People commenting will need to be more aware of the defamation laws. What would be the appropriate, non-defamatory description of the person in the linked video:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-C7OPUg9Lo
    Can you believe this person still gets favourable press coverage?

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    • #
      Forrest Gardener

      Two questions. How do you defame somebody when their identity is hidden? And you don’t really believe these laws are intended to be equally available to all do you?

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      • #
        RickWill

        1. The laws are not intended for unidentified individuals. If you referred to some public figure as a climate clown that figure my make a claim they were defamed. That would be the most common situation with this blog. If some of the climate clowns in various public organisations wanted to be vindictive they would have the law behind them in shutting down JoNova for example.

        2. As far as I know, the availability of legal representation has always been related to the available level of funding. Peter Ridd’s case is a good example. Even funds raised by group funding were no match for an organisation linked to the creator of Australian money.

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    • #

      I’ve not heard this take on blogs. Is there a definition that lumps, say, this blog in with social media?

      Also, is wordpress the publisher and Jo the manager?

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    Ronin

    How did a live bullet get put in the gun, Alec Baldwin.. I have no idea.
    Ok, how did the pistol discharge if you didn’t pull the trigger, Baldwin… I have no idea.

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    • #
      Forrest Gardener

      Ah, the Sgt Schulz defence. I see nothing. I hear nothing. I know nothing. I didn’t even get out of bed that day.

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      Travis T. Jones

      I would feel safer being in a room with Kyle Rittenhouse holding a gun than Alec Baldwin.

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    • #
      OldOzzie

      Santa Fe Sheriff Has a Few Things to Say About Alec Baldwin’s Claim He Didn’t Pull Trigger

      “Guns don’t just go off,” Sheriff Adan Mendoza told Fox News Digital. “So whatever needs to happen to manipulate the firearm, he did that and it was in his hands.”

      00

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      yarpos

      The basic cause of a negligent discharge is finger on the trigger primarily , and then being unaware you are applying pressure. Its easy to do if you have not been trained and developed good habits.

      The main issue with this story to me is that it was a single action revolver. That means it has to be manually cocked for each shot and the trigger only releases the hammer and fires the round. Two distinct actions are needed.

      The layers of negligence needed to get a discharge in this case beggar belief, but a lady is still dead.

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    Scissor

    You can tell when he’s telling a big lie, he opens his eyes very wide. Also, he’s not telling the truth when his lips are moving.

    80

  • #
    TdeF

    Climate Change nonsense from the infamous New York Times

    NYTimes: Climate Change Is Driving Albatrosses to ‘Divorce’

    No matter how silly, I would have thought marriage would survive a change of 1.5C in 150 years?

    Consider also that the world temperature average by satellite from 1978 was exactly the same in mid 1980 as in mid 2021 (UAH). Now that’s 41 years and Albatrosses live for around 42 years, so nothing has changed at all. Climate Change. What change? Nonsense presented as science. And you cannot question science or Dr. Fauci who has declared himself science personified.

    There was a time when science was actually based on facts. No longer it seems.

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    el+gordo

    MJO brings rains to north east Australia.

    ‘The strongest influence of the strengthening MJO in phase_6 is across Indonesia and northeastern Australia. Both zones are wetter than normal. There’s a tendency for west-southwest wind across Indonesia during MJO phase_6 which could initiate the monsoon low pressure trough. Typically, the monsoonal trough develops in late December.’

    (Climate Impact Company)

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    • #
      RickWill

      You called the current El Nino this time last year – good call. It was way ahead of the BoM but then their calls are next to useless and probably worse than useless. Certainly their ACCESS climate model is spewing cow manure based on junk science.

      You need an empty terabyte hard drive to store the excrement from ACCESS that it generated for the CMIP6 input.

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        el+gordo

        You mean the current back to back La Nina, professor leaf will acknowledge that my forecast was well in advance of the models.

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        Graeme#4

        I believe BOM said that there was an La Niña coming every year for around five years.

        00

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          el+gordo

          Not sure about that, but they were the last cab off the rank in calling this la Nina.

          BoM is aware that La Nina blunts the temperature meme, like coldest and wettest November on record for south east Australia. The people are aware.

          00

  • #
    David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

    Bureaucracy at its best:
    ” Tasmania’s Public Trustee found to have ‘genuinely misunderstood’ its duties for 26 years ”

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-02/tasmania-public-trustee-misunderstood-its-duties-review-finds/100667428

    We’re from the government and here to help you.

    Cheers
    Dave B

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    • #
      Robert Swan

      Interesting story.

      While I favour small government, this is one area where the soulless bureaucrats can really help. In the early ’80s NSW had a Protective Office. They (I’m reliably told) did a great job looking after disabled and elderly people’s financial interests. In particular, they were very good at detecting parasitic “friends” and family members who just wanted to get their hands on the old girl’s dosh (or whatever). Many of those would-be parasites lodged complaints with their MPs. The MPs swung into action, abolished the Protective Office, and created the Guardianship Board in its place. Rather than manage the affairs directly, the new board would appoint a guardian — not infrequently one of the parasites.

      There weren’t as many complaints to MPs after that, so they knew they had done a good job.

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      yarpos

      Never asks if they in fact misunderstood their role , what did they think their role was?

      00

  • #
    FatAl

    Last night I received an email from my local dentist, stating that any future visits will require proof of being “double vaccinated for COVID-19” or a negative PCR test in the 48 hours prior to an appointment.

    Monday’s appointment is cancelled, and I now have a new dentist.

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    • #
      FatAl

      https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=244380

      “Many decisionmakers assume that the vaccinated can be excluded as a source of transmission. It appears to be grossly negligent to ignore the vaccinated population as a possible and relevant source of transmission when deciding about public health control measures.”

      and

      “In Israel a nosocomial outbreak was reported involving 16 healthcare workers, 23 exposed patients and two family members. The source was a fully vaccinated COVID-19 patient. The vaccination rate was 96.2% among all exposed individuals (151 healthcare workers and 97 patients). Fourteen fully vaccinated patients became severely ill or died, the two unvaccinated patients developed mild disease”

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      Forrest Gardener

      Sad, but it is the only way to deal with tyrants.

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    R.B.

    Vox headline in Google news

    Climate change turned Venus into a hellscape. Is Earth next?

    The actual headline is “Venus could have been a paradise but turned into a hellscape. Earthlings, pay attention.” but it’s equally full of drivel.

    some scientists suspect Venus was once much like Earth, with a liquid water ocean like the ones that support life on our planet.

    Pretty sure that there isn’t an actual scientist who sincerely thinks this.

    When Earth’s atmosphere was thought to be high in CO2, it was 20 to 200 times more in an atmosphere not much more dense than it is now. Venus now has a density at the surface over 50 times that pin Earth, over 90 times the pressure and likely to have been like this from early in its formation, and 96.5% CO2. If ever there were oceans of water, the lack of a magnetic field and getting twice as intense sunlight as Earth would have led to dissociation of water molecules and loss if H2 from the atmosphere early on, most likely before condensation of water to form oceans.

    There is absolutely no good evidence or even reason to suspect that Venus was at some point Earth like or that the surface temperature was much cooler. The density and opacity of the atmosphere meant that the effective absorbing and radiating surface was 60-70 km above the actual surface, and compression of descending air means that the surface temperature is 400-500 degrees warmer.

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      el+gordo

      Venus lacks a dynamo, which sort of explains everything.

      Earth picked up its dynamo 4.51 billion years ago when a Mars sized object slammed into us, which coincidently led to the formation of the earth-moon system.

      04

      • #
        R.B.

        There are few theories, and that ain’t one if the better ones.

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        • #
          Analitik

          Please detail the “better” alternative scenarios

          20

          • #
            R.B.

            Details? No. The better ones are along the lines of convection of molten iron in the core. I didn’t put much time into understanding even the reasons for the convection. My judgement is based on magnetism being more common in planets than not.

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              Analitik

              The theory put up by el+gordo doesn’t clash at all with yours but explains why our core is so large relative to the planet as well as explaining our large moon that lacks any substantial core. The theories are complementary, not exclusive

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      Chris

      What has happened to the sulphuric acid clouds on Venus.?

      20

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      Forrest Gardener

      I haven’t seen that one for a while. That was the party trick of that doofus who arranged for the air conditioning to be turned off when he testified to congress.

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    Strop

    Young girl violently shoved to the ground by Vic Policeman at the Melbourne Freedom rally. It appears her crime was having walked into his vicinity while looking for her friend.

    https://rumble.com/vq1q38-police-slam-young-girl-to-ground-at-freedom-protest-in-melbourne.html

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      Forrest Gardener

      The citizenry of Victoria can only hope this and other brutal police actions were a salutary lesson to the officers and especially their commanders.

      How can anybody now see police doing crowd control and not wonder when they will lose the plot.

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  • #
    Steve of Cornubia

    It seems to me that, more often than not, any real examination or critique of state premiers’ OTT restrictions is brought to a halt by suspiciously-timely “death threats”. The latest to make such a claim is WA’s McGowan. Once the alleged threats are claimed, the media generally accepts that the pollie in question is now the victim, not the thousands of people unable to visit their sick children, continue working as a nurse or refuse the ‘vaccinations’.

    Have any of these alleged death threats actually been investigated and, if so, who were the perps?

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      Forrest Gardener

      I’ll take a wild stab and say that the alleged death threats were made by the same people now tasked with investigating the alleged death threats.

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    Steve of Cornubia

    America’s ‘VAERS’ (Vaccine Adverse Event Recording System) is widely believed to be busted and unfit for purpose. Doctors and hospitals are not bound to record adverse events, the rules for determining a link between adverse events and recently-administered vaccines are designed to dissuade medics from claiming it was the vaccine and the reporting system itself is said to be so flawed and ponderous that as few as 1% of events actually get recorded properly.

    While this vital data collection service is allowed to continue churning out incomplete and hopelessy-corrupted data, the US Gov’t has decided that it should spend USD400M on a parallel system to record the vaccination status of every single citizen. Surprise!

    So the safety – or otherwise – of these experimental vaccines isn’t important, but knowing who has been vaccinated and who hasn’t apparently is. It’s almost like they’re planning something …

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      Forrest Gardener

      And of course knowing who is actually infected is an irrelevance to those who want a record of who has been injected.

      Remember when Australian governments claimed to have an effective contact tracing system?

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    marksman

    apparently the Nuremberg trials 2.0 have begun

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X94aR83KM8I

    although their ABC says the Nuremberg code has nothing to do with covid despite bogus facebook claims

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-21/coronavirus-nuremberg-code-wwii-fake-news-coronacheck/100139658

    their ABC goes on to say:
    The fake-news article championing Dr Fuellmich’s intervention described people being coerced through “lockdowns, duress and threats” to take “experimental” COVID-19 vaccines, which, supposedly, breached the Nuremberg Code.

    But, according to fact checkers, that’s not the case.

    Based on expert opinion, Full Fact concluded that the Nuremberg Code would “only be relevant at the research trial stage of a vaccine’s development, not its rollout to the general public”.

    l wonder who their ABC uses for fact checking LOL
    my understanding is these so called vaccines are a trial under an EUA that if taken away would not be allowed to be used at all

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      OldOzzie

      my understanding is these so called vaccines are a trial under an EUA that if taken away would not be allowed to be used at all

      FDA asks for 55 years to review its Pfizer-BioNTech data before releasing to public

      Meanwhile, a group of over 30 academics, professors, and scientists had submitted a request for the data the FDA had pledged to provide for public perusal. The group, known as the Public Health and Medical Professionals for Transparency (PHMPT) includes reputed professionals such as Professor Harvey Risch, an epidemiologist at Yale School of Public Health and others affiliated with Harvard, UCLA, and Brown.

      When a month passed without a response from the FDA, Siri & Glimstad LLP filed a lawsuit on behalf of PHMPT against the FDA requesting that the “Court enter an order requiring the FDA to produce all documents and data submitted by Pfizer … 108 days from today,” noting that, “This 108-day period is the same amount of time it took the FDA to review the responsive documents for the far more intricate task of licensing Pfizer’s Covid-19 vaccine.”

      They added that, “To require less is to render FOIA meaningless, the FDA’s promise of transparency a lie, and to send a signal to every American that while the federal executive branch is shielding Pfizer from any liability for injuries from its product and requiring employers, schools, hospitals and the military to expel those that don’t receive this product, it is protecting the very documents Pfizer provided to our taxpayer-funded health agency to obtain licensure to be able to sell this product.”

      In its response, the FDA wrote: “FDA proposes to process and produce the non-exempt portions of responsive records at a rate of 500 pages per month,” at which rate the entire body of data it intends to release (which is only the non-exempt portions) will not be released before the year 2076.

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      PeterS

      I wish that were true. If it were true it would put a stop to the move by more and more more governments of the “free world” to demand that everyone be vaccinated. This relentless push is done slowly to test the waters of public sentiment. In spite of the usual protests, the governments are getting away with it fairly easily. I wonder how far they will go. If they continue unabated it’s pretty obvious they will achieve total tyrannical rule whereby all our freedoms are removed. Real Nuremberg trials would put a stop to all this evil madness quick smart.

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        Forrest Gardener

        That which is not expressly permitted is forbidden. Same in all totalitarian states.

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          Fran

          Actually the basis of all countries whose laws are based on the Napoleonic Code explicitly say everything that is not declared legal is illegal. Found this out living in Quebec where Civil Law different from that in the rest of Canada holds. Criminal law is federal.

          I think it was 1968 when Trudeau pere forced Quebec to come up with laws governing civil marriage. They did so by making it more difficult than a religious ceremony, involving publication of Bans in all courthouses in the province for 40 days after a complicated application process.

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    STJOHNOFGRAFTON

    We’re now being invited by PM Morrison to get the booster jab in order to avoid the fourth wave that Europe’s having as a result of their foundering ‘vaccine’ program. Gibraltar, for instance, 100% vaxxed but clobbered by a fourth wave epidemic of the vaccinated. Sheesh! The only time the PM invites me to anything and it turns out to be more needling.

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      RickWill

      Gibraltar, for instance, 100% vaxxed but clobbered by a fourth wave epidemic of the vaccinated. Sheesh!

      The word “clobbered” is used inappropriately here. Gibraltar has recorded 4 yes FOUR Covid deaths in the past 6 months. The last one was on the 15th October. The word “clobbered” is obviously inappropriate.

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        STJOHNOFGRAFTON

        My comment says nothing about deaths. Clobbered obviously refers to the epidemic situation overall. This means that your inappropriate comment has been clobbered as a result of your straw-man logical fallacy.

        [Let’s keep to neutral terms, everyone. Thanks. – Jo]

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        Graeme No.3

        RickWill:
        STJOHN …. might have meant the rise in infections after everyone was vaccinated. After all what is the actual death rate from Covid among the vaccinated v’s the unvaccinated?

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        Analitik

        The word “clobbered” is obviously inappropriate.

        Better tell their government, RickWill, so that they can reinstate Christmas.

        “Given the exponential rise in the number of cases, the Government for example intends to cancel a number of its own functions including official Christmas parties, official receptions and similar gatherings,” its Government said in a statement.

        https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/christmas-cancelled-gibraltar-vaccinations-b966816.html

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    Analitik

    The brouhaha around Omicron would be comical if the actions being inflicted by governments across the western world weren’t so rapraciously oppressive.

    Greece and Austria are proposing to fine the unvaccinated for this “transgression” on a continual basis and in the US, the Biden handlers are doubling down on “encouraging” people to get vaccinated/boosted.
    https://twitter.com/statsjamie/status/1465669947930128384
    https://www.oe24.at/coronavirus/erster-gesetzesentwurf-fuer-impfpflicht-bis-zu-7-200-euro-strafe/501098619
    https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1466132116043976711

    No doubt our state premiers will look to match these proposals with Red Dan and Mad McGowan leading the stampede for further “action”.

    Strangely, a high powered economist, JPMorgan’s head quant Marko Kolanovic, is stating the sane and obvious that Omicron may well end the “pandemic” due to the mildness of effect and high transmissibility.

    While it is likely that Omicron is more transmissible, early reports suggest it may also be less deadly – which would fit into the pattern of virus evolution observed historically. Should these trends be confirmed in the coming weeks, could the Omicron variant ultimately prove to be a positive for risk markets, in the sense that it could accelerate the end of the pandemic?

    If a less severe and more transmissible virus quickly crowds out more severe variants, could the Omicron variant be a catalyst to transform a deadly pandemic into something more similar to seasonal flu? That development would fit with historical patterns (duration and number of waves) of previous respiratory virus pandemics

    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/jpms-kolanovic-suggests-omicron-could-end-covid-pandemic-and-be-positive-risk

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      Forrest Gardener

      So will Marko Kolanovic be the equivalent of the little boy who declared that the emperor was naked?

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      beowulf

      Circumstantial evidence.

      In July, South Africa averaged 410 Covid deaths per day.
      Yesterday, after Omicron had been supposedly spreading like wildfire for weeks, South Africa averaged 30 deaths per day, down 93 percent…..

      pic.twitter.com/uFGnMpcUC6

      — Joost Broekers (@JoostBroekers) November 29, 2021

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      beowulf

      Dr. Angelique Coetzee is stunned at the global hysteria caused by her announcement of HER first Omricon patient.

      “As chair of the South African Medical Association and a GP of 33 years’ standing, I have seen a lot over my medical career,” Dr. Angelique Coetzee said. “But nothing has prepared me for the extraordinary global reaction that met my announcement this week that I had seen a young man in my surgery who had a case of Covid that turned out to be the Omicron variant.”

      “This version of the virus had been circulating in southern Africa for some time, having been previously identified in Botswana,” she added. “But given my public-facing role, by announcing its presence in my own patient, I unwittingly brought it to global attention.”

      “Quite simply, I have been stunned at the response – and especially from Britain,” she said.

      https://beckernews.com/south-african-doctor-blows-the-lid-off-omicron-hysteria-i-see-nothing-to-warrant-extreme-action-43315/

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        Analitik

        The narrative MUST persist so the MSM and health authorities are determined to generate as much hysteria over the number of mutations, the transmissibility and the potential for vaccine immune escape of the Omicron variant in the face of the overwhelming evidence that the resulting infections are relatively benign.

        The funny thing is they are trying to use the potential for vaccine immune escape to generate fear into getting more people vaccinated and boosted which is quite plainly contradictory. But the narrative cannot be allowed to stall lest the masses realise the con job being perpetrated for profit and control so to hell with logic and science.

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        Ross

        Im just so impressed that this doctor actually saw a COVID person in her surgery. No way that would happen in Australia. All the GPS’s have just run away. That person in Australia would be told to go home or present at a hospital. I wonder if she snuck him some of that good stuff for treatment?

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    Well i have enrolled on what sounds like a “Covid Training “ program,..at my own expense !
    I will pay $100 to a young lady who will stick multiple needles into my shoulders and back, whilst vigorously massaging me with warm oil !!..(presumably to distract me from the needles ?) ..
    …i will Report back on how it goes !
    Wish me luck.
    ..it may even relax my stiff neck !

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    Catherine

    https://www.thesouthafrican.com/news/south-africa-todays-latest-news-and-headlines-thursday-2-december-2021/

    South Africa: Today’s latest news and headlines, Thursday 2 December 2021
    In the latest news in South Africa on Thursday 2 December 2021, Omicron has now been detected in at least 27 countries worldwide.

    – Washington Post:
    Today at 2:35 p.m. EST
    DUBAI, United Arab Emirates — Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates said Wednesday they detected their first cases of the new coronavirus variant, recording the first known instances of omicron infections in the Persian Gulf region.

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/covid-omicron-variant-found-in-israel-entry-from-african-states-barred-1.10417748
    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/experts-vaccine-immunity-waning-signs-israel-facing-fifth-covid-wave-1.10410409
    The expert cabinet advising the Israel’s government said that the children’s vaccination drive would not be enough by itself to halt the spread of COVID

    (children vaccination drive…unbelievable… I hope this turns out to be ok for those children and their parents)
    ——–

    https://www.nicd.ac.za/latest-confirmed-cases-of-covid-19-in-south-africa-1-december-2021/

    ——–

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/12/how-bad-omicron-variant/620870/

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    marksman

    just when l thought the police were backing off with the bad behaviour at the Victorian mandate protests

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf5q4-XeuE8

    IMHO the copper involved is a coward and very lucky the very young lady did not hit her head
    God only knows what the result would have been

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    John Connor II

    Breaking: “No one here in South Africa is known to have been hospitalized with the Omicron variant…”

    180° from the exasperating media reports and knee-jerk reactions across the world and here in the U.S. — the word on the ground from South Africa is telling a very different tale.

    https://rationalground.com/breaking-no-one-here-in-south-africa-is-known-to-have-been-hospitalized-with-the-omicron-variant/

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    beowulf

    Chinese scientists claim to have found an antibody which will neutralise all COVID variants.

    A human monoclonal antibody potently pan-neutralizes SARS-CoV-2 VOCs by targeting RBD invariant site

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.11.29.470356v1.full.pdf

    The authors claim that monoclonal antibody 35B5 has been shown in both in vitro (laboratory or test-tube experiment) and in vivo (performed on living organism) studies to neutralize wild-type Covid-19 (without mutations) as well as variants of concern (VOCs). The in vivo tests were carried out on humanized mice.

    The scientists noted that the antibody also works on the highly mutated Delta variant, which has been responsible for deadly waves of infection around the world since it first emerged in India earlier this year.

    “35B5 neutralizes SARS-CoV-2 [Covid-19] by targeting a unique epitope [part of the antigen molecule which the antibody attaches itself to] that avoids the prevailing mutation sites,” the study explains. In other words, 35B5 targets a unique part of the virus that does not change during the mutation process.

    By targeting part of the virus which is not impacted by the mutations identified in circulating VOCs, antibody 35B5 demonstrated capacity for “pan-neutralizing efficacy” across multiple strains. These findings, the scientists argue, could be “exploited for the rational design of a universal SARS-CoV-2 [Covid-19] vaccine.”

    https://www.rt.com/news/541886-china-antibody-covid19-omicron/

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      Hanrahan

      I don’t care who develops it, I jut hope it works.

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      Steve of Cornubia

      I always thought the Chinese would be first to develop a real ‘cure’. In any race, a head start is priceless …

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      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      G’day beowulf,
      Is it as good as the vitamin D, zinc and HCQ or IVM protocols?, Or do you have to be hospitalised first?
      Cheers
      Dave B

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    Rod

    Dear Fully Vaccinated:

    You’re actually not fully vaccinated and you never will be!

    It only ends when enough say “Enough!”

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    Ronin

    Could the govts efforts to ‘persuade’ you to get the jab by denying certain civic rights and freedoms, be called out as ‘coercive control’.

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    James Murphy

    It’s interesting that the French submarine builder formerly tasked with providing subs to Australia, was usually framed in the media as only building nuclear subs. Not intimately following the product lines of said company, nor the project in any great detail, I was therefore surprised to see that the building of conventionally powered subs is well underway for India. They are not of the same design/class as the ones wanted by Australia, but still… they aren’t nuclear.

    https://www.rfi.fr/en/international/20211128-india-deploys-french-submarine-adding-teeth-to-warship-fleet-ins-vela

    Learn something new every day!

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      Analitik

      The submarines being procured by the Indians are small, coastal submarines for operation in the Indian Ocean along their coastline, similar to the French using these in the Baltic and Bay of Biscay and Mediterranean.

      Our requirements are totally different as our submarines need to be deployable far from our coast, well into the Pacific. This was what led to the prolonged development and deployment difficulties with the Collins class submarines as they were highly modified (displacement was tripled) from the original Västergötland class submarines that the Swedes based their tender off.

      The French tender required “just” the entire propulsion system of their Barracuda class nuclear powered submarine rather than scaling up a small coastal submarine so it was a theoretically easier exercise.

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    Brenda Spence

    Has anyone here heard anything about this group?

    https://www.vaxcontrolgroup.com/

    At one of the rallies, a guy showed me this professional looking card with his photo, id number, QR code and said he was part of the control group.

    He was telling me that it widely used in Europe and the QR code gets them into places.

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    • #
      BS Buster

      Yes, have registered and have my card. Looks to me to be more legitimate than any of the VAX trials big pharma have conducted and the blatant false advertising by the Australian governments regarding the so called “vaccines” being “safe and effective”. I see it as a replacement for the control group that big Pharma inadvertantly lost from their trials.

      Haven’t had to use it yet as I am within the confines of Mc Clowns borders where everything up till now has been operating pretty much as normal. Have not been into any establishment that has asked for proof of VAX but I am sure it won’t be long before that happens and the proprietor will become the meat in a legal sandwich.

      I would recommend any, and all, purebloods register, as it then provides an additional legitimate reason against you being mandated to be jabbed, which can then be added to the case evidence when the prosecutions start against all those who are in breach of previous high court orders that make any of the jab mandates illegal. Also, from a fair work legislation point of view, it is not “fair and reasonable” for an employer to mandate the jab if you are part of that control group.

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      GD

      Thanks Brenda for the heads up about vaxcontrolgroup.com. I’ve applied/signed up.

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      FatAl

      Heh, the QR code is for “wikipedia.org”.

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      Tel

      In another few years those cards will either be valuable collector’s items or evidence on display at the show trials.

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    Brenda Spence

    Fair enough, mods, but I have read elsewhere that the immune system is compromised by these mRNA vaccines.

    In this video Dr Michael Palmer MD, likens mRNA effects to that of radiation.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-N9EDHMtkUg&feature=youtu.be

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    R.B.

    From a site called Boss Hunting, that Google News recommended ommended

    No matter how you cut it, rising sea levels and extreme weather events pose a very serious threat to humanity. The earliest victims will, of course, include those who dwell along the coast. In time, at the aggressive rate climate change is progressing right now, we could all be knee-deep in saltwater

    At 3mm a year (not even half that according to tidal gauges) anyone born now and who grows more than 5 feet tall will need to live 100 years for the water to get knee deep, if they remained at the high tide mark until then.

    I’m not sure it is going to affect all of us.

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    another ian

    Maybe the government’s “drum up the tourist trade” group might need a bigger budget.

    I just saw an overseas comment comparing an aerial view of Howard “Colditz” Springs with one of Auschwitz

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    CHRIS

    Well I didn’t think Howard Springs had any Crematoria, but who knows in this day and age?

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    clarence.t

    UAH for November is in.

    Anomaly is a scary +0.08ºC, making November 2021 the 11th warmest November in 43 years

    For Australia, the anomaly was -0.29ºC, making November 2021 the 34th warmest out of 43 years.

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    another ian

    “I have friends in South Africa, quite bewildered by all the fuss”

    Video at

    https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2021/12/i-have-friends-in-south-africa-quite-bewildered-by-all-the-fuss.html

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    Analitik

    Anthony FauciFauxi and Jen PsakiPsnarki put on a press conference that resembles those from the Saddam Hussien government when Coalition forces approached the outskirts of Baghdad

    Reporter: “Whatever happened to Biden’s promise to shut down the virus?”
    Psaki: “We’re working on it”
    ..
    Fauci was asked why he banned travel from Mozambique, despite the fact that they have had zero Omicron cases, and he has no explanation at all. Instead, he responds by saying it’s a “good question.”

    https://redstate.com/bonchie/2021/12/01/dr-fauci-and-jen-psaki-tag-team-a-presser-that-devolves-into-a-mind-bending-disaster-n485057

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    Analitik

    Fully Vaccinated Patients Show Mild Symptoms after Omicron Infection in Botswana — Non-Vaccinated Show No Symptoms at All

    On Monday, the Assistant Minister of Health and Wellness testified during a parliament hearing that not one of the Omicron variant cases identified needs oxygen support and hospitalization.

    According to Assistant Minister Sethomo Lelatisitswe, Botswana has still 15 ‘Omicron’ variant cases, 3 of the patients showed mild symptoms while the rest did not. Of those 15 cases, 11 were vaccinated, while those 4 unvaccinated did not show symptoms at all, Lelatisitswe said.

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/11/revealed-fully-vaccinated-patients-show-mild-symptoms-omicron-infection-botswana-non-vaccinated-show-no-symptoms/

    So why should we all be getting vaccinated and boosted because the Omicron variant is spreading? Please explain

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    el+gordo

    Climatological Information

    ‘The adjusted climatology (including 2021) for North Atlantic tropical cyclones maintains the more active 30-year values compared to the longer-term 50-year values. The number of tropical cyclones each season nowadays averages close 15 whereas the 50-year climatology is somewhat lower at 12.6 and 11.9 for 1950-2021. The increased number of tropical cyclones in the 30-year climatology is due to the warming North Atlantic as identified by the Atlantic multi-decadal oscillation (AMO) and tropical North Atlantic index (TNA).’ (Climate Impact Company)

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    another ian

    Another “Why should we”

    “1,223 fatalities in Pfizer’s Covid vaccine ‘Adverse Event’ report (here) for 1st 90 days”

    https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2021/12/1223-fatalities-in-pfizers-covid-vaccine-adverse-event-report-here-for-1st-90-days-.html

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    Analitik

    The Highwire – EPISODE 244: OMG, OMICRON!

    Quite entertaining watching all the media panic clips at the start of the video

    https://thehighwire.com/watch/

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    another ian

    “Howard Springs, Australia’s favorite all inclusive resort is the go to place when you want to just kick back, relax, and just let all your troubles fade away.”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2021/12/02/free-holiday/

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    Rod

    On Israeli tv!
    Openly admit almost all infections and deaths in vaxxed.

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1462813465244889093

    10

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    another ian

    “What you said” reminders

    “The Atlantic- Where Leaders Actually Follow Their Own Advice” – link there

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2021/12/02/your-moral-and-intellectual-superiors-303/#comments

    “That piece ran May 13, 2020. What does Slovakia look like today?”

    Read on

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  • #

    Back in the Old Country we’re still banging on about climate change, with a simple one-question survey for climate sceptics, based on a definition of climate scepticism / denialism in a paper by one John Cook. Please feel free to respond at
    https://cliscep.com/2021/12/02/survey-of-climate-sceptics/

    10

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    another ian

    “Jay Weatherill, double-vaccinated, got Covid, so sick he “can’t talk” ”

    https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2021/12/jay-weatherill-double-vaccinated-got-covid-so-sick-he-cant-talk.html#comments

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    another ian

    ““I think it’s shocking how people acquiesce to this sort of thing”

    https://newcatallaxy.blog/2021/12/02/i-think-its-shocking-how-people-acquiesce-to-this-sort-of-thing/

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    Rod

    Australia: 11x Post Covid Vax Deaths Than All Vaccines Combined Since 1971

    Serious questions have been raised as to why medicine regulators have not pulled the Covid-19 vaccines from distribution to the general public after data on the Australian Government website revealed that there have been eleven times as many deaths reported as adverse reactions to the Covid-19 vaccines over a period of eight months than deaths reported as adverse reactions to every other available vaccine combined over a period of 50 years.

    https://principia-scientific.com/australia-11x-post-covid-vax-deaths-than-all-vaccines-combined-since-1971/

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  • #
    another ian

    And on that subject

    I’ve posted some on IVM from the view of a (mostly former now) user of IVM in a livestock enterprise. And a thing I missed until now about the TGA’s “dangerous chemical”.

    The labels for straight IVM products that I use have the big print warning headed “Caution”

    Like this one

    https://www.kogan.com/au/buy/pet-station-australia-iah-ausmectin-sheep-drench-broad-spectrum-oral-antiparasitic-solution-20l-wiasdo20/?utm_source=myshopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=myshopping

    When mixed with any other anthelmintic the product is “Poison” – e.g.

    https://www.qdrench.com.au/

    I’ve had my doubts if the TGA actually read any MDS sheets.

    Now the thought is the “reverse quid pro quo” in action

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    another ian

    “Are You Now Or Have You Ever Been a Climate Denier?”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/12/02/are-you-now-or-have-you-ever-been-a-climate-denier/

    And comments

    Read and likely swear a different sort of oath

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    Serp

    Radio National ten pm news leads off with reading from ALP press release about its climate policy; it’s clear we’re in for a relentless pursuit by our ABC of the next federal government being Labor.

    All perfectly normal, steady as she goes; truly the dead are the lucky ones.

    00

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