JoNova

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Tell me how Mail-In Voting can not be won by the Party prepared to Cheat The Most?

Hypothetically, can anyone think of a scenario where an honest win is still possible, and it will be seen to be an honest win?

US Flag, Flying.When every home is turned into a voting booth, how can it possibly remain either anonymous or secure? The social forces of a gregarious species will favour “public” voting, assisted by helpful collectivists and born-networker personalities harvesting support for their favourite outcome. And as Frank Miele points out, there are infinite ways to cheat and most of them are undetectable.

Mail in votes can also be cast early — before even one debate. Sixteen states will allow voting before September 29th with people missing fully five weeks of campaigning and discussion. Isn’t there something deeply wrong about that — something that favors the lesser scrutinized candidate? Something that favours the candidate the media wants to elect and does free advertising for?

Then there is the systematic problem with every man, woman and dog becoming effective electoral officers handling ballots with no observers present.

We know Mail-in Voting offers a huge advantage to the Democrats and collectivists, and they know it too — just look at which side yells the loudest in protest at the thought that it might be fraudulent. The potential to cheat is so obvious most countries don’t allow mail-in ballots. Thirty seven US states have already changed their mail-in ballot rules, but overseas almost no country allows it without photo ID, or limit it to the disabled or people overseas.

How is this not a recipe for disaster?

Frank Miele:  Election Roulette: How to Rig an Outcome

Unlike absentee ballots or early voting, which require active participation by the voter, universal mail-in voting means that every registered voter will be sent a ballot whether they want one or not — heck, even whether they are alive or not.

Fact of the matter is that cheating on mail ballots is child’s play. Here, off the top of my head, are four ways to monkey with the vote:


1) A hard-core Democrat union-rep mailman is collecting mail from households in a neighborhood that skews Republican. He dutifully collects the ballots left for him, but then dumps them in the trash or (smarter) burns them in his fire pit later that night. 
What is the protection against this happening? Or any of the remaining scenarios below?

2) A hard-core Democrat nurse’s aide making 10 bucks an hour decides to monkey-wrench the system that she thinks is exploiting her. When she collects the ballots from 120 residents in the nursing home where she works, she volunteers to drop them at the post office “to make sure they are secure,” but then heads home and buries them in the backyard.

3) A pizza delivery guy enters an apartment building with a large pepperoni and leaves with a carton of blank ballots that were left in the lobby for pickup by the residents. The pizza guy happens to be a member of antifa and he has no problem filling out all the ballots against President Trump and the Republicans. Even if the fraud is discovered, it is highly unlikely that all the ballots will be disqualified.


4) A Democratic campaign aide who is working to “get out the vote” in a neighborhood with a high proportion of older people knocks on doors and offers to help voters mark their ballots. Not a citizen? No problem. That’s been waived. Not sure who to vote for? How about that nice Democrat! And if you do happen to vote Republican, no problem — I will deliver it for you … right to the Dumpster!

So when Election 2020 is over, if the Dems don’t win, they’ll be outraged because the polls told them they would win. If the Trump supporters lose, they’ll know it was rigged, because there is no way it won’t be. It’s just a question of “how much”. When elections can’t be done so that either side respects the outcome, it defeats the whole point of an election as a peaceful way to sort out national differences. How is that not eventually the road to civil war?

h/t David E

 

 

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Rating: 9.7/10 (87 votes cast)
Tell me how Mail-In Voting can not be won by the Party prepared to Cheat The Most?, 9.7 out of 10 based on 87 ratings

104 comments to Tell me how Mail-In Voting can not be won by the Party prepared to Cheat The Most?

  • #

    With mail in voting, the result could be drawn out for ages, so that by Inauguration Day, the result could still be not known.

    Luckily, in just that scenario, the U.S. has already got a contingency in place in case the result is not known.

    The Speaker of the House is then declared the President, and I think that stays in place until a ….. DEFINITIVE result is known, so that could mean until after all the legal processes are sorted through, and you can work that one out, as one side or the other argues the toss, and how many missing votes still keep turning up.

    So, that means Nancy will become President, making two records, the first woman, and the oldest to take office.

    My, how youthful she looks for an 80 year old.

    Tony.

    440

  • #
    PeterS

    Here’s one scenario pointed out by a few. If the Electoral College could not make a decision because of the delays from the mail-in votes, Pelosi would name Biden president. The Senate and White House would reject that decision and support Trump. At that point, Podesta would turn to the military to remove Trump. As they say we live in interesting times.

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    • #
      el gordo

      That is unlikely to happen, but there is a possibility that US political culture may change after the election because Democrat voters feel increasingly marginalised. You can see it happening in Australia.

      ‘Joel Fitzgibbon has warned Labor could split into two separate parties if it fails to bring together its working-class and socially progressive supporter bases.’ Oz

      42

      • #
        Ted O'Brien.

        Don’t worry about Joel. He suffered a very humiliating near death experience at the last election at the hands of a One Nation coal miner. He will only change his spots until the ALP gains a majority, then it will be back to the old script.

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        • #
          el gordo

          Post Covid (PD) the world may be a different place and I don’t expect Labor to win any elections going forward.

          32

  • #
    Mal

    Ban mail in voting
    Simples

    120

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      So if you were serving in a foreign posting, you would be disenfranchised?

      230

      • #
        Murray Shaw

        NoPeter, you would be entitled to a “postal vote” the same as we have in Oz. The US allows “mail-in voting” where ballot papers are distributed into communities without having a name attached to them. Blank ballot papers, wide open for rorting as outlined above..

        351

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          Not quite, you have to be registered to get a ballot, and you have strict rules on how it is returned, even a piece of sticky tape on the envelope can invalidate it.

          237

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            Yeah and the flaky and dodgy Left are all for postal voting so they can cheat.

            Knowing the track record of the Left and how openly anti law and order it is, anyone with half a brain knows its a system that would be abused mightily. No way.

            340

          • #

            You are mistaking the rigors of absentee voting with easy to defraud universal mail in voting. There are many, many thousands of people on voting roles that have moved away or died as well as many pets and imaginary people. The real problem will be when China, DNC operatives and others with evil intent floods the system with fake mail in ballots spread across the entire US. Even if discovered, it could take weeks or months to separate the bogus ballots from real ones.

            230

          • #
            North Vega

            I live in a state that was sued by Judicial Watch to clean the voter roles, and my state is not alone in having hundreds of thousands of voters who no longer live in the state, at the registered address, or have given up the ghost. Example, my daughter has been divorced for years, but I got her Ex-husbands’ ballot for mail in voting at my house. Ah, the possibilities for fraud.

            Many counties in the U.S. states have sometimes 10-15% more registered voters in the county than they do residents. And, in these Democrat controlled counties it is perfectly legal to do ballot harvesting, ie a single person can collect hundreds of ballots and turn them in regardless of who fills them out. Ballot harvesting is illegal in most if not all Republican controlled states.

            So be specific in your language! Mail-in-voting in many states is just that, if you are on the voter role means a ballot is sent to the listed address, correct or not. Absentee ballot means you request the ballot, and it is scrutinized by that fact.

            The democrats don’t want validated “requests” for absentee ballots, they want free-for-all ballots mailed to everybody on the voter roles, which they know will lead to fraud, but don’t care. If you object to the fraud, then you are a racist trying to suppress the vote and Antifa or Black Lives Matter thugs will beat you in the street with a Democrat Mayor, Governor, City Council, and District Attorney elected with Soros funding allowing this to happen. National democrats will not denounce these, ahh… “Protesters”.

            It’s a mess the Democrats want, and a planned mess they will get! It’s 2016 all over again on steroids, except this time there is no trail to follow, only a planned narrative to derail Trump if re-elected.

            330

            • #

              Possibilities for fraud,… so many slips betwixt the cup and the lip. George Soras, self proclaimed enemy of U.S and Western Democracy, know it, advocating and funding the removal of electoral system checks and balances, now Heaven knows, anything goes!

              50

              • #

                sssss – edit – ‘knows’ it, everybody knows. (Hope I got that right.)

                10

              • #

                Behind the curtain…just one puppeteer:

                Funding to manipulate Federal Elections. Those leaked Soros funding documents show that Soros poured hundreds of millions of dollars into often secret efforts to change election laws, to fuel litigation to attack election integrity measures, such as citizenship verification and voter ID, to push public narratives about voter fraud as a myth, and attempts to manipulate media coverage of election issues in mainstream media outlets like The New York Times.

                The funding documents name groups that received more than $500,000 each year, including the Centre for Community Change, the Advancement Project Centre and the Brennan Centre. Two of these organizations, the Advancement Project and Brennan Centre, regularly oppose election integrity measures in court and influence media by pushing voter fraud denial narratives.

                https://pjmedia.com/jchristianadams/2016/11/07/leaked-documents-reveal-expansive-soros-funding-to-manipulate-federal-elections/

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      • #
        TedM

        Not applicable PF.

        30

  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    It’s good that we only have to worry about mail in voting, and those only those evil democrats

    Imagine if you had to contend with gerrymandering, or with voter registration, or with limited polling places, and lastly let’s not forget language (other than english) or the other grab bag of ways votes can be manipulated

    245

    • #
      James Murphy

      Maybe you live under a rock, but it is the democrats who are pushing the hardest for mail in voting, just as hard as they push to allow non-citizens the right to vote, and they complain about the concept of mandatory voter ID, because they know it will have an impact on results, be it legitimate, or otherwise.

      No sane person thinks election fraud is limited to one political party. Only you seem to have decided this.

      170

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        A quarter of the votes counted in 2016 were mailed, and Trump won.

        Tampering with mail in votes is a symptom, and one of many, of a broken system

        121

        • #
          Sweet Old Bob

          “A quarter of the votes counted in 2016 were mailed, and Trump won.”
          Provide data source for that claim .

          60

          • #
            • #
              beowulf

              Well he couldn’t verify your claim because it’s wrong — but we understand. You didn’t read your links again, did you?

              Your first link to the Election Administration and Voting Survey (EAVS) site clearly shows mail-in votes for the 2016 election at 5.9% not the 25% you claim. 5.9% was a long way short of a quarter when I went to school.

              140

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Can you elucidate? Early, Mail-in and Absentee are sub categories of votes not cast at a polling booth – all require a transport service. And If you had looked at the whole article where there was a state by state breakdown you would have seen the figure I quoted. Back under the bridge for you

                113

              • #
                beowulf

                No, absentee and early voting do not go via mail. Read the screed above the graph.

                “includes both early votes cast on voting machines and absentee ballots that are cast at an in person location prior to Election Day.”

                If early, absentee and postal votes were all included (which they shouldn’t be), the figure would be 40.8%. I don’t see where 25% came from. If they all went by mail why would they be separated in the graph? We are not looking at sub-sets, we are looking at discreet sets. 5.9% by mail.

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    • #
      markx

      Well, as largely independent observer, I’d say Peter Fitzroy is quite correct. This is a two way street.
      A Republican postie could be equally as unscrupulous.
      (And don’t tell me Republicans are principled and morally above-board and would not do that: cf Donald Trump as an example).

      There does seem to be a heavy Republican reliance on gerrymandering and restricting polling station access for urban voters:

      “They had things, levels of voting that if you ever agreed to it, you’d never have a Republican elected in this country again”, Trump said during an appearance on Fox and Friends. 30th March 2020

      In December 2019 a Trump campaign aide was recorded as saying, “Traditionally, it’s always been Republicans suppressing votes in places”.

      “I don’t want everybody to vote. As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down”. Paul Weyrich, 1980.

      17

      • #
        CoRev

        markx, this comments is misread: ““They had things, levels of voting that if you ever agreed to it, you’d never have a Republican elected in this country again”, Trump said during an appearance on Fox and Friends. 30th March 2020″ It is without context, but Trump app[ears to be talking about Dem attempts to control voting.

        BTW, resetting voting districts is a normal process when the 10 year census redefines the population per state. That state’s party in control defines how each district is defined. When the district’s boundaries are drawn to advantage or disadvantage a single party that is gerrymandering.

        40

  • #
    StephenP

    This all sounds like the way the Rotten Borough system worked in the UK before the secret ballot was introduced in 1872.
    If you didn’t vote the way your landlord or boss wanted you could be out of your house or job.
    This was why if you owned your own house you had a measure of independence, although your job could still be at risk.
    Postal voting used to be very uncommon until relatively recently, and you had to have a cast iron reason to be allowed one, such as being in hospital or working abroad.
    Since postal voting was eased there have been a number of allegations of vote rigging and personation and in 2015 the mayor of Tower Hamlets in London was apparently found guilty of electoral misconduct and removed from office and his previous election declared null and void.
    The main problems in the UK seem to be where a single person gathers up and posts voting papers in “houses of multiple occupation.”
    The alleged catchphrase in Ireland was said to be ” vote early, vote often! “

    250

    • #
      tonyb

      Stephen

      yes, but you omitted to mention that this practice occurs in certain religious communities where the man is the head of the household and others in a traditional household does what he says.

      Fortunately this is generally picked up and new rules are supposed to be looked at so this can’t happen.

      100

  • #
    Zigmaster

    There is no doubt that the Democrats urging for mail only voting is because it will potentially help them to win and if they lose they will say Trump cheated ( better than them) and deserves to be removed from office.
    In a situation where voting is voluntary with a candidate like Biden if it’s cold outside or raining who’s going to bother. Most voters don’t hate Donald that much that they can be bothered to face the elements for a candidate they don’t feel is any good. The only reason to vote for him is that he’s not Donald. Trumps supporters on the other hand are rusted on and would vote no matter what.

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  • #

    Jo
    I saw a recent exercise where a man got 100 letters and mailed them from different mailing points. Only 97 reached the end point.

    3% easily swings an election these days.

    I can believe the Democrats wanting mail in as it is completely open to fraud. There are many in the US who for $20 would hand over their ballot to somebody. For little expenditure one could swing tight seats. Hell your example of the corrupt US Postal Service worker could be that he/she collects the ballots before voting and then dutifully fills them out for Biden then mails them in. With the massive amount of mail and all the confusion happening one can see that done on a large scale it could do wonders for the Dems.

    The potential for fraud is massive as you point out, and that is why the Democrats want it.

    170

    • #
      Another Ian

      Don’t be suprised. Firearms renewal warnings that did not arrive – post and email. Mine being one.

      Latest I’ve heard includes one by registered post – of which the local post office has no record.

      120

      • #
        Dennis

        Over the past several years I have had special paid delivery documents go missing with Australia Post, one sent to the AMP Locked Bag at a city post office. Three sent for a friend dying of cancer to the Department of Human Affairs Centreling Canberra were not received, apparently, paid special delivery record claimed “delivered”.

        11

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      One of the reason dems want masses of illegals flooding in is that they vote democrat….

      I think one day people will have had enough of the repugnant left, and take then to task. I think if rioting really kicks off, the silent right wing majority could declare cash bounties on the leftist anarchist rioters. It worked in the old West, it could work again.

      182

      • #
        Deano

        The Greens in Oz want open borders for the same reason – they’re importing Greens voters who want ‘free stuff’.

        110

  • #
    TdeF

    Yes, it’s too obvious. You know it has the potential to disrupt election when Mitt Romney thinks it is wonderful. And Pelosi reconvenes Congress just to undo recent changes made by the chief of US Post Office. You see when you are fighting an evil, worthless, incompetent, dangerous tyrant with an evil mass m*rdering family, anything is justified. At least that is always the reasoning of the left. Cher, Barbara Streisand, Better Middler, Jim Carrey and of course the rest of Hollywood and the Clintons and Obamas. With the notable exception of Clint Eastwood.

    What was notable too was that the Democrats did everything possible to maximize the disaster of Kung Flu, delaying recognition, delaying payments, blaming Trump when all such health issues and police are State exclusive areas. So make a mess and blame Trump, no matter what the cost in lives.

    However the block chain patent just issued to the US Post Office must have them worried too. Pelosi and Schumer are obviously very worried that the Post Office might not play along and the last thing you want is verifiable voting, making certain the right person cast the vote and only one vote.

    Could I suggest you have a confirmation approach, as is popular to prevent banking or credit card fraud. Add a call back mobile phone number to your vote, a number where you read out your unique voting registration number? And if you don’t have a mobile phone, your’e not a real person. No vote is real until confirmation and the phone number of the sms source and the number of the vote match. The right number sent from the right telephone.

    Or any other simple scheme which confirms identity. Even your email address, so you can be sent a request for confirmation. Or an sms to the phone where you have to enter the code sent or your voter code.

    There are endless simple schemes which could confirm postal votes have been filled out by the intended person and everything would have to match for the vote to be valid. No chads. No theft. Uniqueness and independent verification.

    140 out of 250million eligible people vote. Confirmation could be very fast and automated.

    Vote comes in. Scan the mobile phone number. Check that it has not been used before. Send an sms. Ask for confirmation. And if possible ask for the number on the unique voting form.

    Or you could make it simpler. Send your voting number as an SMS to a given number. Get a number back. Put it on the form. You cannot use the same telephone twice. And a reverse phone number check can confirm your identity.

    Lots of different ways. Endless. Fast.

    We are living in a world where a whole transaction at a flexiteller has to be confirmed for payment within a limit of 7 seconds. And we can still have paper voting, but each vote has to be linked to a different phone number. Children do not vote and voting is optional.

    172

    • #
      TdeF

      As for each person having a phone, I am amazed that this is true no matter how poor the country. For an adult or teenager not to have a phone is beyond punishment.

      I was half way up the mountain path at amazing Petra in Jordan, in Wadi Rum, the stuff of Lawrence of Arabia and Aqaba about 50km away. Some 700+ steps up to the summit to see the Monastery, a church facade carved from solid rock in a place so remote it vanished for perhaps 700 years. Very similar to the Treasury far below, the amazing facade also in solid rock at the end of the ‘valley of the Crescent Moon’ as it was called in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.

      And there halfway, some 400 difficult steps up this hard, slippery, uneven carved steep often narrow path was an Arab girl in the mouth of a dark small cave selling jewellery. I thought I might look at the rough pieces on this makeshift table in front of the cave in the rock face. She was far too busy, presumably on the phone to her boyfriend.

      I also visited a Bedoin tent. Camel hair rugs, camel hair furnishing, presumably camel for lunch but when the riders came in their flowing Bedouin desert costumes, each pulled out their mobile phone and hung on the top of the pole in the middle of the tent. The pole doubled as a solar charging station for this tribe.

      What do most people use for ID when they buy online? Their email address. A simple combination could eliminate fraud.

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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        “What do most people use for ID when they buy online? Their email address. A simple combination could eliminate fraud.”

        Yeah…think I’ll pass…its bad enough we can be easily tracked, without creating in effect a permenant digital ID.

        I personally think the right of anonymity outweighs the cost of fraud.

        62

      • #
        TdeF

        Or in a word, validation. And most schemes fall apart.

        The only downside is the loss of anonymity. It is known how you voted, at least by the government. But not in principle by anyone else.

        After all, it’s no more risky than what they are doing, which is unproven and unsafe and open to mass fraud or just a total mess. A Presidential election has hung before on a few chads on a countback on Florida. Al Gore was nearly President of the United States.

        We would have lettuce powered aircraft by now.

        172

        • #
          Annie

          Lettuce powered aircraft!
          That’s absolutely hilarious TdeF. Thankyou for a laugh before bedtime; much needed after watching the box and feeling like taking an axe to it.

          62

        • #
          North Vega

          I’m with Original Steve on this one, which is why I’ll vote in person, as it should be, unless there is a reason for a verifiable absentee ballot. Some states are considering a week long in person vote versus mail-in-voting to maintain election integrity and anonymity.

          Isn’t it interesting that the Big Unions in the U.S. want to do away with the secret ballot in a plant deciding to unionize or not? I wonder why, so they can come to your house to deliver literature in person, or maybe give you an offer you can’t refuse? Democrats equal Big Unions, and the sum total equals all up in your business. I’ll stick with the anonymity as long as possible, especially when all government workers suck at the teat of the state, and all are unionized.

          100

        • #
          RickWill

          The value in the block chain is the anonymity of the voter while ensuring a single vote per registered voter – still open to fraud but at a reduced level. There is reasonable knowledge of the anonymity in blockchain technology through use of bitcoin. Blockchain technology has already been used in some States for voting.

          I do not know what needs to happen for the blockchain technology to be used universally. I do not know if USPS has the authority to ensure the integrity of the voting system or if it is a State electoral matter. Any State that excludes such technology, if offered, would indicate that it was not open to the concept of 1 person, one vote.

          It may be that the USPS is aiming to give Trump confidence in the postal voting system so he will increase their funding.

          12

    • #
      Deano

      So true TdeF. My bank won’t let me do anything without confirming it’s really me but the process is simple and reliable. Surely USA can devise a secure remote voting system. Assuming they actually want it of course.

      43

      • #
        John F. Hultquist

        Surely USA can …

        But not in a few weeks!
        Washington State started voting by mail in 2011. There was no rush and there was a learning curve. Now, as far as one can tell from news sources, there is not much wrong with the system.
        See: Don’t try to build one over-night

        On the other hand, at the State and National levels, Washington is a Democratic haven so a vote for a Republican won’t change an election . Local elections are contested.

        20

      • #
        Dennis

        I very recently returned a form to a major bank accepting a settlement offer on superannuation fees and they wanted my photo drivers licence copied and verified by a person with an occupation on a list (I used my same bank branch manager).

        10

    • #
      James Murphy

      This chap has done a couple of interesting YouTube videos about the negatives of electronic voting, though I wouldn’t be surprised if they are not new to anyone here.

      10

  • #
    Peter C

    Does the USA have a Federal Election Commission like we have in Australia?

    40

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      Yes

      16

      • #
        Deano

        I went looking online for the equivalent to our FEC during the U.S. 2016 election and couldn’t find one. I think the USA actually doesn’t have a central electoral department. Each state simply handles it’s own votes and they’re all tallied to determine the outcome. If I’m wrong I will marry Miranda Kerr.

        70

    • #
      RickWill

      Does the USA have a Federal Election Commission -

      YES – there is a FEC that has existed since 1974 to monitor election funding.

      Does the USA have a Federal Election Commission like we have in Australia?

      NO – the States administer the Presidential election process in their State.

      60

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Still trying to confirm the story but one county in Florida has a code on the outside of the Mail ballot envelope, including a letter D if you registered as a Democrat and a letter R if republican.
    So returning ballots are easily recognisable.

    60

    • #
      TdeF

      Really? You put your vote on the outside of an envelope? So much for privacy and anonymity. Surely this is a rumour, not fact?

      41

    • #
      Gabriel Pentelie

      Many counties across the U.S. do that, but only in PRIMARY elections, and only if they are in “closed primary” states, where only those who are registered as Republicans can vote for Republican candidates, only those who are registered as Democrats can vote for Democratic candidates, etc.. It speeds up sorting and counting, which is important in precincts that do this manually.

      For GENERAL elections, in which everybody can vote for ANY candidate, such markings are disallowed.

      60

      • #

        Gabrielle

        Why? Why should you need to be registered in order to vote for a party? Suppose you want to change your mind after seeing your party perform badly?

        32

        • #
          Gabriel Pentelie

          “Why? Why should you need to be registered in order to vote for a party?”

          The reasoning underlying it is that, in PRIMARY elections, it allows each party’s voters to choose the candidate from their party who is likeliest to receive their strongest support when it comes time to compete against the other party’s/parties’ candidate(s) in the GENERAL election. It does so by avoiding the problem of having another party’s voters swoop in and help their opponent party’s weakest candidate win in the PRIMARY, thus increasing the odds of their own party’s candidate in the GENERAL election.

          Analogy:
          Sydney U and Melbourne U are preparing for an intercollegiate debate event. Would you want the former to have any say in the latter’s process of selecting who they think will perform best for their side, and vice versa?

          “Suppose you want to change your mind after seeing your party perform badly?”

          You can. There are generously sized time-windows between elections during which people can do that, and the process is very easy.

          70

  • #
    Jim

    And, the amazing thing? That the party that says liberty or death, Russians under your bed, and religious freedom and the right of self determination are so in bed with the problems they create. The problem is not age, sex, or education, but the lack of morals. Blind obedience to a leader. Right or wrong, blind obedience. Was Stalin right? Hitler, Mao? Blind obedience lead to the deaths of many worthy people who had other dreams of life.
    It’s not a liberal conservative thing, if a third party is closing polling places, convenience is closing sites is a cutting board issue, fewer voters, which party will dominate? More restrictive rules to vote? Which party Garner’s more support? Mail in? In the us, mail went from three day to ten days, now by time you get your electric bill, your gas, water bill, they are late pays. Is that in the people’s best interest? Or a business? All so ups, and Amazon can deliver to a mailbox?

    61

  • #
    Deano

    I remember a case in WA where a local council candidate removed mail voting envelopes from elderly residents letterboxes and filled them in as votes for himself because “he knew they were going to vote for him anyway” and thus he was just helping them. My whiskey-soaked memory seems to recall that his punishment was trivial, as if to tell the public “Yes, we’re corrupt as hell. We don’t care and there’s f-all you can do about it.”

    Then there was the mysterious disappearance of 1400 senate votes in the 2013 federal election. They were never found…..

    140

  • #

    I am trapped by Chinese germ weapons below the Equator in a banana republic with 16 communist parties and 16 fascist parties. All of Brazil’s looter parties are tax-subsidized and, as in Australia, the peasants are forced at gunpoint to cast votes in elections with no libertarian competition. Last year I sent a mail-in ballot for Gary Johnson. It was stamped and rejected by some officious prig on grounds that it should have arrived a month before election day. I treasure the rejection slip as proof that I at least tried to cast an uncoerced vote against communo-fascism–a practice Australians could profit from trying out.

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  • #
    Spartan79

    5. A unionized postal worker at a sorting facility “accidently” directs multiple bags of mail, including ballots, originating in heavily Republican zip codes to Nome in Alaska. When they (finally) arrive back in their precinct the election has already been declared for the Democrat.

    60

  • #
    Spartan79

    5. A unionized postal worker at a sorting facility “accidently” directs multiple bags of mail, including ballots, originating in heavily Republican zip codes to Nome in Alaska. When they (finally) arrive back in their precinct the election has already been declared for the Democrat.

    30

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    dinn, rob

    tell me how mandatory vax will fix your wagon, oz

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    5) Imagine a 5-person household where everyone is over 18. Dad is the only Democrat. Dad intercepts all 5, fills them out, mails them in, forging signatures. Even if the others discover the misdeed, what is their recourse? Can you imagine the bureaucracy needed to investigate the validity of an all-mail-in system, and the grievance procedures you’d need? It would be impossible to announce the winner on the night of the election, basically going back to hand-counting systems. Not to mention the fact that the new bureaucracy couldn’t be trusted either.

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    Of the 4 scenarios listed by Frank Miele, 1) and 3) would be detected easily by the voters when their ballots didn’t arrive on time, 2) could just as easily be done by a Republican-voting care home owner/manager, and 4) could again just as easily be done by campaigners for Donald Trump.

    So, not a very convincing argument.

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      North Vega

      I think you just logically answered your own observation, ie mass vote by mail in 2020 is an inherently corrupt system no matter who is involved, so don’t use it! Some states want to adopt it overnight versus instituting a multi-year process to build a robust system to clean up the voter roles and verify signatures on mail in ballots. But, there is no anonymity in this system.

      And, democrats don’t want to clean the voter roles. That’s racist! Democrats and the MSM want to point to vote harvesting in North Carolina by a Republican as illegal, which it is, because it is a Republican run state and vote harvesting is recognized as inherently fraudulent. Yet, the MSM ignores California where vote harvesting is perfectly legal. Hope you see the pattern, and who is supporting the fraudulent activity.

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      Gabriel Pentelie

      Theoretically, all true.

      However, …

      Trump specifically and Republicans in general are AGAINST wholesale mail-in ballots. Meanwhile, Democrats are aggressively FOR them.

      Closely related: Republicans are FOR cleaning up voter rolls, so as to remove dead people, people who have moved to another address, another city, another state, non-citizens, etc. Meanwhile, Democrats vehemently OPPOSE such efforts and label/slander them as … drum roll, please … RACIST VOTER SUPPRESSION, JUST LIKE IN THE JIM CROW ERA!!!

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    GD

    This is war. The Democrats will not play fairly. Mail fraud could triumph over the election result.

    However, Trump is not an idiot. If he wants to be re-elected, he’ll be taking steps to make sure that doesn’t happen.

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      TedM

      I hope you are right GD.

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        But Trump is only one man against the entire Deep State which includes some of his own party, and there are only weeks left to solve this.

        I’m not saying it’s impossible, just that those who are concerned about this might want to ask, what can I do?

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          Peter Fitzroy

          Trump is firming in the polls, and is at the same position he was in 2016. What can you do?
          It might be to highlight the way in which he is attempting to scale back military involvement outside the USA

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          markx

          “… Trump is only one man against the entire Deep State which includes some of his own party, and there are only weeks left to solve this….”

          Really, Jo?

          Maybe it’ll all turn out to be true, but to me, at this stage, it appears Trump spends as much time looking after his mates as does the head of any political organisation in the world. And a helluva lot more time demonizing and neglecting anyone who is against him.

          Just because some bureaucrats and industry leaders think he is a blithering and ruthlessly dangerous idiot, does not make them ‘Deep State’. It just means they are normal observant functioning human beings.

          And I happen to think that Trump largely got his trade deals right, and, albeit accidentally as function of aiming for voter appeal, has a realistic approach to the climate issue. (It is pretty clear he’s not into mathematics or statistics or physics …. or, any science.)

          If Donald Trump is the answer, we are asking the wrong (expletive) question.

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          Peter C

          What Can I do?

          I am not sure. It might help if people were more aware of the evidence of corruption within the FBI, the CIA and the DOJ all of whom spied on the Trump campaign at the behest of the Democratic Party .

          Nothing is supposition; everything is connected to deep and direct evidence of corruption that covers a variety of interests and numerous institutions. The most adverse to sunlight are members of Mueller’s purposefully installed special counsel unit. After the Obama administration left office, Andrew Weissmann and crew took over. They did things that only Machiavellian thinkers could imagine. It will all come out; the question is when?

          https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/08/18/status-update-meeting-and-briefing-today/#more-197997

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    5) same paranoia as 1-4 but written by a paranoid democrat

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    Furiously curious

    Paranoid, pessimistic? Please tell me how anyone can win this election. Civil war is pretty much happening now! Neither side will accept defeat. America is pretty well ungovernable. The Pute and the Chinese are rolling around on their floors, laughing hysterically.
    We all think that if we get the outcome we desire, that’s it, done and dusted, it’s all over. Wrong! Nothing ever ends. Even if you got your utopia, the next generation will be bored, and want something else. That’s probably one of our many great strengths/weaknesses – being seduced into thinking the curtain falls as our dream goal is attained. The glorious goal dazzles us, blinding us to the many unforeseen consequences.
    Neither side will accept the result. Convince me we’re not heading into a hot civil war!

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      PeterS

      No need to convince you. Civil war is highly likely.

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        el gordo

        Civil war is likely if the election appears corrupt, that won’t happen in the US.

        Everyone still has a chance to cast a vote and as a utopian socialist I would vote for Kanye West, Birthday Party.

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    William Astley

    I would be surprised if there was an American election.

    The HCQ cocktail ‘issue’ is different than how to prove we did not cause the CO2 rise. It is possible to prove or disprove whether the HCQ cocktail works.

    There are honest doctors and covid sick people in the US who do not want to die or get organ damage. There is motivation to find the HCQ cocktail solution.

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/08/19/nolte-minnesotas-democrat-governor-quietly-rescinds-hydroxychloroquine-ban/

    Nolte: Minnesota’s Democrat Governor Quietly Rescinds Hydroxychloroquine Ban

    “There are now 53 studies that show positive results of hydroxychloroquine in COVID infections,” Hatfill wrote[.]

    If the HCQ cocktail is highly effective as an early covid treatment = TRUE

    There will be no political spin that looks different than treason, criminal negligence resulting in death, or mass murder depending on the specific person’s connection to the fake science and effort to suppress the real science.

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      I’m not sure you can prove that HCQ works, that is the problem.

      From my understanding (and I may be wrong), it appears it definitely doesn’t work in severe cases such as hospitalizations and ICU. The problem is, it is precisely these cases where it is easiest to conduct the double-blind randomized trials needed to prove if that it does work or not. HCQ may work in the early stages of Covid, but I suspect it is difficult to either set up the right trials, get the drugs to the patients in time, or even identify who they are in time before their condition deteriorates. Most Covid patients don’t self-identify until the disease is quite severe, and most can’t get tested.

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        William Astley

        Slarty,

        Assume HCQ works as 53 studies results showed. Fake climate studies is different than fake medical studies. There will be no more fake HCQ studies.

        Is it a crime to generate fake HCQ studies if HCQ works? Simple answer and only answer is yes.

        There is no politician in their right mind that will take the side of the fake HCQ studies. You do not understand the consequences of getting caught in a lie that caused people to die and suffer.HCQ is not a dangerous drug. It has been used for more than 20 years. There is a 2005 paper published by the US institute of Medicine that finds HCQ is an effective treatment for coronal viruses.

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      John F. Hultquist

      I would be surprised if there was an American election.

      Uff da!

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    It's all BS

    I cannot believe that the US is still ploughing ahead with postal voting. One look at Australian social media during the Gay Marriage debacle in 2017 will show that the Gay Marriage boosters had no problem liberating postal votes from people who weren’t interested or home. I am not saying that those against it wouldn’t have done it, as I am sure Republican voters will probably do it as well. But it is the unashamed boasting of the fact that they did is what is most concerning. John Locke said “People will never admit in public what they feel in private for fear of ridicule” or something to that effect. They fear no ridicule… or consequences.

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    beowulf

    And why does the US need extensive mail-in voting at all?

    Dem Favorite Fauci Blows the Narrative on Mail-In Voting, Says There is No Reason Why We Can’t Vote in Person

    http://www.hideoutnow.com/2020/08/dem-favorite-fauci-blows-narrative-on.html

    Partial transcript of the embedded video:

    HOST: “Can people safely go out and vote in person given that this year there’s so much concern around the vote?”
    FAUCI: “I think if carefully done, according to the guidelines, there’s no reason that I can see why that not be the case.
    “For example, you know, when you look at going to a grocery store now in many regions and counties and cities that are doing it correctly, they have Xs every six or more feet and it says, ‘Don’t leave this spot until the person in front of you left their spot.’
    “And you can do that.
    “If you go and wear a mask, if you observe the physical distancing and don’t have a crowded situation, there’s no reason why you shouldn’t be able to do that.
    “Obviously, if you’re a person who is compromised physically or otherwise so you don’t want to take the chance, there’s the situation of mail-in voting that is done for years in many places.
    So, there’s no reason why we shouldn’t be able to vote in person or otherwise.”

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    Ross

    It is not just mail in voting. There is the vote harvesting issue, last time they said there were 2,000,000 dead people still on the roll, voter ID is not required in most areas and then there is those electronic voting machines –these machines are not owned and operated by the Government as you would expect, some are owned by the individual state , some are privately owned and they do not all operate on the same software(some is proprietary software of the machine owner). In fact I would almost so far as to say the mail in issue is the less of Trump’s worries.

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    DOC

    The Republicans are taking New Jersey to Court over postal voting which was found to have
    20% of false or fraudulent votes that had to be discarded. (Hannity on Fox news this am.)
    I knew of the Court case but not the reason for it.

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    RoHa

    It won’t make any difference. The US will remain a war-mongering rogue state no matter who becomes president.

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    Here in Queensland, we’ll be having the first Australia wide election in Wuhan CCP Virus times, so knowing the ALP left, they’ll also be canvassing mail in voting.

    Oh, wait a minute we have a precedent don’t we.

    We had the State wide Council elections back at the very start of this pandemic, you know, when everybody was totally scared witless, back on 28March2020,

    The Premier and her Boss, Doctor Janet Young, and that sock puppet, the Minister for Health, Steven Miles all swore, hands on hearts that we were all okay to go to polling stations and vote, reassuring every Queenslander that we would all be okay.

    It was the largest percentage of non voters in Queensland electoral history, and (no doubt having legal advice) it was decided not to fine those who did not vote, and I bet that hurt State Labor who would have been rubbing their hands with glee at the amount raised from enforcing those fines, similar to the Millions they are making now from the fines.

    I wonder if a precedent like this will carry any weight.

    Tony.

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    Dennis

    Australia: Same Sex Marriage Postal Ballot used rather than the promised ballot box vote.

    As I recall, only 80 per cent of eligible participants returned their paper marked Yes or No, of the 80 per cent who participated slightly more than 50 per cent marked the paper Yes.

    With no explanation of the detail to change the Marriage Act the Turnbull Government (as the PM called it) proceeded with what was a slim majority decision Yes.

    The experience in Ireland was that many citizens refused to participate in the proposed change to marriage conditions, clearly they were potentially No voters.

    Political manipulation should always be expected and monitored closely.

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    David Maddison

    Also, don’t forget the Obama “motor voters”. This was where Obama allowed for or encouraged states to issue driver’s licenses to illegal immigrants. In many states, the mere possession of a driver’s license as an identity document allowed people (illegals) to register to vote. If there was honest voting in the last election Trump would have won by a bigger margin. Dishonest voting is the biggest threat to Trump’s re-election.

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    David Maddison

    The US could learn from Australia by having a centralised voting authority, in our case, the Australian Electoral Commission, that is responsible for uniform and theoretically incorruptible voting policies throughout the country via the various State Electoral Commissions.

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      robert rosicka

      While our system may be better doesn’t mean it’s free from shenanigans, last federal election a postal vote was sent to the Glenrowan pub for Edward Kelly .

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    Dave in the States

    Fortunately, we still have the Electoral Collage. This means the places where the Dems will likely be able to cheat the most effectively are probably going Dem anyway. For example, in 2016 there was wide spread cheating by the Dems in California. This is where, and how, Hillary picked up so many extra “votes” in the popular vote, but she gained no more votes in the electoral collage than if she hadn’t cheated.

    California is also where some Republicans won their races initially, but eventually lost them as the mail in vote trickled in, with just enough to give the Dems the margin of victory. Funny how that worked.

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    Maptram

    An issue I see is who would fill the VP position if Biden is elected but is unable, for one reason or another, to last the four years. We know that the VP would take over as President, but will the person who would then take over as VP be known before the election, or the position of the next in line for the VP is known but the person is not known until after the election when appointed by the new president (or the Democratic Party).

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    Rick Kinsman

    If the Democrats win in November, everyone will know it was won by cheating and the good ole boys, who are already spoiling for a fight and loaded for bear, will cut loose and Civil War Mk2 will occur. The synopsis I tend to give credit to is this; The urban sprawls are generally dominated by Democrats while the rural areas (significantly, the food bowl) are very much in the hands of the conservative/Right.
    It won’t take more than few heartbeats to see how this is going to play out – think siege mentality. The cities won’t last more than a few days without water, fuel or food, and the military is firmly on the side of the hillbillies so will probably stay out of it until a clear winner emerges.
    It will be a decisive win for the conservative/Right, but what will they do when they “win?” History seems to tell us that when a group takes power by force they generally need to continue to use force to keep that power. Draw your own conclusions as to what that means.

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