JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Thursday Open Thread

 

Just letting readers know that I and the moderation team are trying to find ways to improve the quality of the comments in some threads.  In a frustrating, difficult era, we’re especially looking for old fashioned good manners.

That and the ability to ask good questions.

Thanks for making a special effort.

 

 

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Rating: 9.8/10 (40 votes cast)
Thursday Open Thread, 9.8 out of 10 based on 40 ratings

129 comments to Thursday Open Thread

  • #

    Good luck

    I’ll try to conform to your request

    10

  • #
    David Maddison

    So, what are the criteria for success or failure of the Victoriastan lockdown?

    If the virus is not eliminated by the end of the current lockdown (another 5 weeks), what then? Extend the lockdown even further? Have an even more draconian lockdown?

    How much economic and social destruction are people prepared to accept?

    And who’s counting suicides from failed businesses etc. and deaths due to undiagnosed or untreated mefical conditions because people don’t want to go to hospital and a lot of medical procedures in hospital are cancelled?

    “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” Benjamin Franklin

    211

    • #
      TdeF

      We want the daily infection rates what they were supposed to be, under 10.

      The whole lockdown under Daniel Andrews in Victoria since March was a fraud, jobs for the boys. Ramadan, meat works, friends of the Labor party, even identity politics and self interest. Now hundreds are dead. That is not why we shut down in the firs place.

      And under Daniel Andrews new laws, as the biggest employer in the State and the head, he is liable to mandatory charges of manslaughter, like any other person in a position of responsibility who does nothing right and then denies his part in it. All someone else’s fault.

      Now he denies that the ADF were available, which is a lie. And neither he nor his ministers have the decency to take any responsibilty for their dereliction of duty. It was not hard. Victoria now exceeds the whole of Australia in March. Totally and utterly unnecessary.

      The criteria are no more infections. And those that occur are tracked and the sources eliminated. We are an island but thanks to the deliberate deceit and lack of duty of care, Victoria is a declared disaster state.

      What do we want?

      We just want what Queensland, Tasmania, Western Australia, New South Wales and South Australia and New Zealand has. Is that too much to ask? And not 20 people dead a day because of total neglect.

      The others panic if they have 10 infections!

      We want our lives back. And as the decision maker, a new government which takes responsibilties for what was really, a very simple job. Our part has been hard and totally wasted.

      182

      • #
        TdeF

        And he says he takes full responsibility, but doesn’t know who is really responsible. We do. Daniel and Andrews and his cabinet should resign immediately. Or we are trusting them again and based on their proven performance, we have no reason to expect a better outcome when their interests and ours do not coincide.

        151

        • #
          TdeF

          This was not a failure of the people to lock down, be careful, isolate, stay home or the concept of elimination. It was a failure of the government to do their jobs. Now they want suppression, having put us uselessly through elimination and knowingly sabotaging it themselves. The government, like the Beirut government, should resign. The death toll from Daniel Andrews arrogance and lack of care is already more than double that of Beirut. And even the number injured or hospitalized is comparable. Resign now. We are already in a state of martial law.

          211

      • #
        Strop

        Whether the ADF were available or offered or rejected or whatever is somewhat irrelevant. That’s just a sideshow about who is lying. (The liar is usually the one who is stands to gain from the lie, so we know who it is.)

        The Vic govt’s first option should have been to use the Vic Police for quarantine security. The police have greater authority over civilians and the ability to apply law, which the ADF doesn’t. The ADF just looks authoritive and brings discipline to the job, in that they’ll do their job.

        The Vic govt failed to utilise it’s first and best option (Vic Pol) and anything after that only entrenches the evidence of incompetence.

        110

        • #
          TdeF

          Why not both? Why private contractors when you have your own police force? The same ones now patrolling the suburbs and locking innocent people in their homes under military curfew? And why did those four private contractors then hire students using social media? Not even adults or people with any experience at all in managing others especially in a stressful crisis life and death situation? What sort of credible guard is a 19 year old Indian girl student? And she left because it was boring and everyone was on their phones all night. Now 200 dead people. Unbelievable negligence, denial of responsibility. Words hardly express what so many lives lost mean to our Premier and he is very concerned and he frowns a lot and denies any responsibility. If he was not responsible, who was?

          And the idea that it is just a dispute over whether the army was available? Or who told whom what? Or what was decided at meetings? 200+ dead people in a few weeks and it’s someone else’s fault. No, it isn’t.

          111

          • #
            Strop

            And the idea that it is just a dispute over whether the army was available? Or who told whom what? Or what was decided at meetings? 200+ dead people in a few weeks and it’s someone else’s fault. No, it isn’t.

            I’m certainly not suggesting responsibility is a sideshow. Just that the who is lying about the ADF is a sideshow. Take the ADF dispute out of the equation because the ADF was at best plan B. Our incompetent state Govt jumped straight past plan A (using Vic Police) and in to plan F troop, so hang them on not using plan A.

            I’m saying the state Govt is responsible for 200+ deaths, a second wave, stage 4 lockdowns, Vic economy going down, and Vic cut off from the rest of the country. Just hang them on not using plan A and forget trying to catch them in the ADF lie. They can’t defend using civilian security in lieu of the Police regardless of whether the ADF were or weren’t available or offered.

            60

            • #
              TdeF

              Yes, that’s just one issue. Just in..

              “Mr Andrews’s reference at the 3pm press conference to the use of “private security” is of particular interest, as it was made minutes before a critical emergency management meeting chaired by Mr Crisp which thrashed out the operating model for the hotel scheme.

              Department of Jobs, Precincts and Regions secretary Simon Phemister told a parliamentary committee hearing on Wednesday that the decision to use security guards in hotel quarantine was made at that “very pivotal meeting”, which began at 4.30pm.”

              So the decision was made by Andrews and his ministers before the committee meeting started.

              It’s not a gotcha or a sideshow. Its a demand for justice. The lies are transparent, the deceit overwhelming and the tragedy totally unnecessary which makes it criminal. This cowardice and gormless excuse making at its finest from the most senior government members in the State of Victoria. People who would charge a private operator with manslaughter for doing what they have done. It cannot stand. What was done was criminal.

              91

              • #
                Strop

                It’s not a gotcha or a sideshow. Its a demand for justice.

                I’m not saying responsibility for a failed quarantine system is a sideshow. The state govt’s responsibility is the show.

                I’m just simplifying the prosecution by saying forget the ADF aspect which the state govt is wriggling on. They used private security instead of the Police for the most vital role. There’s no wriggle room or dispute about whether the Police were available as a first option.

                20

              • #
                Strop

                As reported in today’s Herald Sun.

                But on March 27, Mr Andrews said: “I’m very grateful to the Prime Minister for him agreeing to let this be a true partnership between Victoria Police, our health officials, as well as the Australian Defence Force. I think that will work very well.”

                The next day, after a decision was made to use security guards for compliance monitoring, Mr Andrews said: “We’ll utilise private security, we’ll also utilise members of Victoria Police, and I’m very grateful to the Prime Minister for his offer of support from the Australian Defence Force.

                10

  • #
    tonyb

    Jo

    You have often had a hard time over your covid comments so lets get back on surer ground with climate.

    We travelled to Cambridge over the last few days, which coincided with another burst of very hot and sunny weather. We visited the Botanic gardens on Friday 8th August (36 degrees C) and took the opportunity to view the site of the weather station there, which recorded the UK record temperature of 38.7C on 28th July 2019 .

    I took extensive photos and noted the terrain and surroundings and measured the temperatures inside the Gardens, in the surrounding streets in Cambridge and at a location 2 miles away. Whilst I would not claim my instruments reached any sort of scientific accuracy I was surprised by what I found.

    I must say that the siting of the Botanic gardens weather station seems highly problematic. It was established on this site in 1904 and each decade the city has spread towards it. There is a vast amount of new building immediately outside –with a massive modern seven storey office block at the Station gate 150 metres away. An immense recently built Sainsbury’s research building in the gardens itself is a similar distance away, atop of which are hundreds of solar panels and half a dozen industrial size air handling units.

    In addition, again at a similar distance and creating a long run of buildings, are the relatively new Algal research facility situated in a glasshouse and a corresponding hanger type building adjacent, both equivalent to a 2 or 3 storey building. This link shows these buildings and the weather station itself.

    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.1939902,0.1294666,113m/data=!3m1!1e3

    Zooming out once or twice will give a good view of the immediate highly urbanised surroundings.

    The path next to the weather station leads past the Sainsbury building to the new cafe and due to its artificial stone construction this radiated heat from paths and walls which made it a canyon of heat. Behind the weather station is a tall hedge which looks as if it has been recently cut very considerably. On one side of the site is what appears to be a newly sown grass area. On another side was a site for native plants which were just under waist height

    All in all, as well as the UK being a heat island according to the calculations made for CET, Cambridge itself is a substantial heat island and the rapidly developing area immediately around the botanic gardens adds a third level to the UHI effect.

    I have written to the Met Office suggesting they might like to review the record they recorded here.

    160

    • #
      Strop

      Hi tonyb,

      In the event the station is considered poorly positioned due to its changed or changing local environment. I trust you asked the Met Office to consider keeping the station running for a good period of overlap with any new location that gets established. Something our wonderfully unscientific Australian Bureau of Meteorology fails to do when shifting locations.

      80

      • #
        tonyb

        Strop

        The Met Office are pretty good. They would certainly keep a parallel station running. There is a possible new site within the grounds, within a few hundred yards, that is not so compromised by the surrounding buildings.

        I am sure the equipment is properly maintained and the observers have been doing the record keeping for years so my concern relates to the UHI effect. It is not however an ‘official’ met office station so I am unclear as to why they used it and have also asked that question.

        51

  • #
    David Maddison

    Hydroxychloroquine works in high-risk patients, and saying otherwise is dangerous

    By Harvey Risch
    August 12, 2020 – 10:29 AM

    As of Wednesday, some 165,000 people in the United States have died from COVID-19. I have made the case in the American Journal of Epidemiology and in Newsweek that people who have a medical need to be treated can be treated early and successfully with hydroxychloroquine, zinc, and antibiotics such as azithromycin or doxycycline. I have also argued that these drugs are safe and have made that case privately to the Food and Drug Administration.

    The pushback has been furious. Dr. Anthony Fauci has implied that I am incompetent, notwithstanding my hundreds of highly regarded, methodologically relevant publications in peer-reviewed scientific literature. A group of my Yale colleagues has publicly intimated that I am a zealot who is perpetrating a dangerous hoax and conspiracy theory. I have been attacked in news articles by journalists who, ignorant of the full picture, have spun hit pieces from cherry-picked sources.

    These personal attacks are a dangerous distraction from the real issue of hydroxychloroquine’s effectiveness, which is solidly grounded in both substantial evidence and appropriate medical decision-making logic. Much of the evidence is presented in my articles.

    (SEE LINK FOR REST)

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/hydroxychloroquine-works-in-high-risk-patients-and-saying-otherwise-is-dangerous

    161

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      The squealing appears to be directly proportional to the risk of the control freaks losing their main toy….control.

      It seems the longer people are in lock-down, the more likely their minds will break and they will then accept the globalists coveted “control gate” – their vaccine.

      These drugs give people freedom, and freedom is anathema to the globalists it seems.

      110

    • #
      Orson

      Sorry readers. TDS has made 30% of Americans — all of them the Best, Brightest, and most Moral, I’m told — simply crazy because it is an election year, and clear headed reasoning from evidence be damned.

      It can’t be helped. Except the Marxist media is helping them into their crazy.

      You think I’m kidding?

      I had a buddy writing his masters thesis in Journalism and Media Studies on the topic of the public morality of capitalism. Out of nearly 50 grad students, only he himself was out of the closet as a non-Leftist. [To be fair, one of his female classmates was also, he said, but hidden deep in the closet].

      Thus, for his thesis committee, he liked two Marxist profs. The rest were intolerant Marxists.

      My buddy asked for help to find a non-Marxist to take the required third spot on his committee. I recommended the fine economic historian, Lee Alston, as his non-Marxist. His success was assured.

      Today, university hiring is 48 Leftists to every 1 on the right at US universities, according to John Ellis latest book (prof of German, UC-Santa Barbara). In 1998, says Ellis, University hiring was 5 Leftists to 1 onthe right. But in the 1970s, it was nearly equal at 3 Leftists to 2.

      Hire crazy, get crazy. The US is now officially a crazed and mad house. Don’t go there!

      110

      • #
        Orson

        Black Pigeon Speaks is a perspicacious outsider because he is Canadian by birth and upbringing, served in the military, and has long lived in Tokyo, watching the world.

        Here he observes the Rising Cult of Woke, the Godless Left’s secular neoMarxist replacement for religion seen rising in the USA and the UK since May.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZJ1OVCXLCs

        This is a 15 minute long dumpster deep dive into dysfunctional culture; you have been warned.

        60

        • #
          Fred Streeter

          The “Cult of the Woke”? Poor things, having to have a belief system.

          I have been an Atheist for 73 years (I remember being aware of my non-belief at 4.)

          For all of that time I have never experienced a “void” that needed to be fulfilled by any Religion, sacred or secular.

          However, look on the bright side, the Graven Images are getting a bashing!

          10

          • #
            Orson

            Well Fred. As a fellow atheist, given your delight in iconoclasm against not imaginary friends but actually accomplished living people, you would benefit from mirror gazing. You are in denial of what you’re actually proving. You do worship a God, and it’s called nihilism, QED..

            01

            • #
              Fred Streeter

              To be fair, I took this:
              “the Rising Cult of Woke, the Godless Left’s secular neoMarxist replacement for religion”
              to imply that you cared that religion was being replaced and were, thus, religious.

              As such, you would likely be Christian and aware of the Almighty’s law against Graven Images.

              Hence my facetious remark on their destruction, it had nothing to do with “actually accomplished living people”.

              (That said, the worthiness of accomplishments is best assessed by future generations. When all the knock-on effects have been resolved.)

              Nihilism?
              That endless tedium of circular arguments?
              With no possible resolution?

              No, me old son, I am enjoying my life and I try not to introduce strife into that of others.

              10

  • #
    Geoff Sherrington

    Jo,
    You mean like this as a reaction to the new USA VP elect?

    https://youtu.be/m_LpbWcfTd4

    This was big people unafraid humour from 1981.
    Geoff

    50

  • #
    TedM

    A bit on the history of the Wuhan P4 laboratory.

    https://youtu.be/ZH8I06W_u5g?t=162

    20

  • #
    David Maddison

    Australian develops effective Triple Therapy to treat COVID-19

    06 August 2020 | News

    ‘A combination of FDA and TGA approved Ivermectin, Zinc and Doxycycline has shown positive results for COVID-19 and should be considered immediately to fight the pandemic’ says CDD Medical Director Professor Thomas Borody.

    Australia’s The Centre for Digestive Disease (CDD) Medical Director Professor Thomas Borody MB, BS, BSc(Med), MD, PhD, DSc, FRACP,FACP,FACG, AGAF, says FDA and TGA approved Ivermectin which he uses regularly in his hospital, has shown positive results for COVID-19 and should be considered immediately to fight the pandemic.

    Ivermectin was discovered in the 1970s and is on the World Health Organization (WHO) list of essential medicines.

    Professor Borody has used the same methodology with the COVID-19 Ivermectin Triple Therapy as he used when he developed the world’s first cure for peptic ulcers saving millions of lives around the globe. He says this combination of 3 approved “off the shelf” drugs could be the answer to Australia’s COVID-19 crisis.

    “If nothing else, make it available in aged care homes immediately. Our elderly are at the highest risk and this is a very safe option especially when we have nothing else except ventilators. Also, our frontline workers deserve more protection with a preventative medication like this, and as an emergency treatment if they test positive,” says Professor Borody.

    “An Ivermectin tablet can cost as little as $2 – which could make it by far the cheapest, safest, and fastest cure for Australians and the Australian economy,” he added.

    (SEE LINK FOR REST)

    https://www.biospectrumasia.com/news/91/16457/australian-develops-effective-triple-therapy-to-treat-covid-19.html

    121

    • #
      robert rosicka

      David this treatment would seem to be the pick of what’s currently available, it’s just a shame places like Victoriastan wouldn’t consider it .
      With nothing to lose Daniel Andrews should take a chance and make this drug available in its combo form free for all of us in the state .

      100

    • #
      Lucky

      Triple therapy- quite unsatisfactory, the Wokers want panic and disorder not solutions.
      For them stopping the virus takes away their power and the acclaim they get from imprisoning and bullying the population. Whatever the data show they will claim Ferguson figures on how many lives they have saved. The sheep lap it up. But there is little data, there are numbers from fake tests, and on top of that the RT-pcr test is useless. Infections and deaths are not data, they are manipulated numbers, just like increasing temperatures, products for the same masters.

      110

  • #
    Another Ian

    Another caught and bowled by Steve McIntyre

    “McIntyre on Kaufman et al 2020″

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/08/12/mcintyre-on-kaufman-et-al-2020/

    30

    • #
      TdeF

      The incompetence is astounding, for example “so how did they get such a different appearance? Total cock-up. They dropped the earliest Dahl value, then reversed the years. So the Dahl value from 5502 BC was used in 1995 AD, from 4438 BC in 1987 and so on. A goof of Mannian proportions.”

      11

  • #
    Another Ian

    “Guilty Or Not, You Will Confess”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2020/08/13/guilty-or-not-you-will-confess/#comments

    And the link

    Has Victoria taken out a subscription?

    10

  • #
    StephenP

    One thought about posting comments.
    When posting a comment on Paul Homewood’s “Not a Lot of People Know That” blog, the Post Comment button changes to Posting Comment. This helps avoid the problem of double posting.
    Would this be possible here?

    50

    • #

      Good suggestion. I may not be able to implement it immediately, but I”ll look into it.

      I suspect double comments are not the fault of commenters. They seemed to increase simultaneously recently. Another thing I need to look into.

      10

  • #
    StephenP

    [Duplicate] Thanks for that Jo does read all the posts.]AD

    01

  • #
    StephenP

    [Duplicate and ironic.]

    11

    • #
      Peter C

      Try to be patient!

      The Post Comment button does not work immediately, but you may see the little circle of dots going around on the status bar.
      Clicking Post Comment again and again before the site has responded to the first one results in multiple comments.

      20

  • #
    Bulldust

    Imagine the shock of the ‘cultural elite’ when Nick Cave came out against cancel culture:

    https://www.watoday.com.au/culture/music/nick-cave-slams-cancel-culture-as-bad-religion-run-amuck-20200813-p55lfm.html

    Carries more weight coming from a leftie rag. Is the tide turning?

    50

  • #
    David Maddison

    Australia’s disastrous NBN project makes it into the list of history’s most expensive mistakes.

    https://youtu.be/o7UHUSmlXyc

    51

    • #
      David Maddison

      The submarine project will be an even more suitable candidate if it’s ever finished.

      Other additions should be all solar and wind projects (except properly costed legitimate installations in remote areas) and Australia’s desal plants.

      91

    • #
      Strop

      Shouldn’t that just be bundled into electing Rudd PM as the expensive mistake?

      60

    • #
      yarpos

      Wind power in general should be right up there

      10

  • #
    tonyb

    England reduces Covid count by 5000

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53722711

    Previously anyone diagnosed with Covid who then died, even if being hit by the proverbial bus, was counted as a covid death. That has been adjusted to be within 30 days.

    Hopefully they are reviewing the stats to determine the numbers who died WITH Covid rather than OF it.

    Deaths by flu have been three tims that by covid for the last seven weeks as I linked to yesterday

    40

  • #
    TdeF

    And Andrews blames the bushfires on Climate Change. That’s so outrageous it beggars belief. It’s a non sequitur. The climate did not change this year, so what caused the bushfires? And 1C over 100 years does not mean more bushfires. A bush could not tell the difference and nor could any human. Again, it’s not his fault. Climate Change.

    121

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘The link between heatwaves, bushfires and climate change is undeniable, Premier Daniel Andrews said …’ Nov 2019

      With the pandemic turning his world upside down it seems he doesn’t have anything more to say on climate change and bushfires, but his replacement might.

      30

      • #
        Serp

        Who’s “his replacement” that will “have anything more to say on climate change” then?

        I get it, we’re to wait for the next scheduled election in about two years by which time somebody “might” have emerged.

        30

        • #
          el gordo

          A young mom has been highlighted, good on infrastructure but I have no idea on her climate credentials.

          10

  • #
    Orson

    A fresh and lengthy interview of Peter Ridd by James Delingpole in theUK, the former Daily Telegraph columnist.

    “ …physicist, climate sceptic and cancelled academic talks about his ongoing legal battles with James Cook University, why the Great Barrier Reef is doing just fine and why Queensland is the greatest…” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njAbobgwNDQ

    50

  • #
    MJB

    Long-time lurker here. I agree with your assessment of recent comments but would add that the change is relative. I think it would be accurate to say the comments (on average) have gone from excellent to good. ‘Good’ is still a good place to be these days. I would rate the current state of commenting here higher than nearly all other interweb locations addressing the topics that you do. Fully support getting back to excellent, but you should still be proud of the community you have developed.

    60

    • #
      robert rosicka

      MJB the Covid subject seems to be more divisive than CAGW , from what I’ve seen most arguments come from the use of lockdowns .

      60

    • #
      el gordo

      Covid has been extraordinarily divisive on the question of elimination or herd immunity.

      To get back to ‘excellent’ we only need superior wit and wisdom, so that lurkers will be amazed by the refreshing discussion and also get a chance to laugh a lot.

      Thanks for your insightful words.

      41

      • #

        I think that, as with climate science, there is a confusion for some about how to apply their dogma to non-partisan data and facts. That people feel the need to do so, is a reason why comments can’t rise above good.

        10

        • #
          el gordo

          I hear you, but I see that as an opportunity to create a dynamic red and blue team, a class of naughty boys out to discover the meaning of everything.

          The pandemic has been a break from the past and gives us a chance to hit the refresh button.

          20

  • #
    Orson

    The new Covid-19 cluster in New Zealand that’s effectively shut down Auckland appears to have been a result of a breech in international quarantine protocol.

    One likely way? Two-thirds of the staff and personnel involved have not been tested for the virus, reportedly.

    With the PM addressing the nation at 5:30PM on Friday, the pressure is on. Here’s my post from the previous open thread (Auckland web speed is dodgy here — can’t imagine why!):

    A quarantine breech is suspected to be the source of the new cluster. A family of 4 plus 13 others has been identified and put into isolation.

    Details from the New Zealand Herald. Confirmation of the source expected soon; text and 1:39 video
    https://www.news.com.au/world/pacific/coronavirus-new-zealand-cluster-linked-to-quarantine-breach-winston-peters-claims/news-story/0c6e8c4a297ab5b96e7161c311f018a8

    My suspicions are that the PM on Friday will announce some plan or a timeline slated to narrow down the quarantine breech and establish confidence that it can be plugged and the threat level lowered again.

    Problem-solution time. And performance demanded, given that there is an election is only weeks away.

    30

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Maybe we could air drop some HCQ and Ivermectun ( the kiwi version … ) in for Jucunda to use?

      60

    • #
      yarpos

      “Two-thirds of the staff and personnel involved have not been tested for the virus, reportedly.”

      The staff and personnel of what?

      00

  • #
    David Maddison

    Latest from Tony Heller.

    Australia doesn’t look good in this video.

    https://youtu.be/S8u891yt968

    31

    • #
      Orson

      To be fair, have the police and the states not learned that open air activities, especially any properly distanced, are highly unlikely to post any transmission threat? Or are a Health Ministers and bureaucrats so power mad there, like those in the US, that they ruthlessly ignore the facts?

      50

      • #
        Lucky

        Orson, your question- Yes.

        30

      • #
        yarpos

        The logic presented is the basic reduction in movement and interactions. Its nice to think its just a tidy out door activity, but transport, food, alcohol, gas, accidents etc can spiral out from it. Seems to be a matter of opinion and degree, where they just see the need to put the brakes on a large population somehow.

        00

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Uh oh… Dangerous Dan is really going for broke…when things look bad , up the hysteria….

    https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/victoria-may-tighten-regional-restrictions-after-worrying-rise-in-covid-19-cases-traced-to-melbourne

    The only thing that will break under tighter restrictions in Victoriastan at this rate, is democracy….and peoples minds…..

    If Dan gets re-elected, Victoria will go down in history as another Stalingrad….

    70

    • #
      Annie

      That link leads to ‘this page does not exist’, or somesuch. Is the link correct or has it been removed?

      10

  • #
    David Maddison

    Fascinating idea to image exoplanets at high resolution using a gravitational lens (Einstein ring) created by the sun.

    https://youtu.be/NQFqDKRAROI

    11

  • #
    Jojodogfacedboy

    I am very fearful that your website will be eliminated by the mainstream for not conforming to following their propaganda.
    Since President Trump was elected, a vast many websites have closed or disappeared in the name of breaking more and more restrictions.
    I have been very fortunate in having a very rich life of different experiences.
    Currently dislike the massive government interference in my life here it is illegal to live and survive independently.
    I very much enjoy your perspective and research.
    Thanks Jo.

    70

    • #

      Thanks!

      And to that end, one of my main concerns with the poor responses to Covid is that the pandemic helps the Democrats, China, and some very large vested interests.

      My main aim in using microbiology to limit the threat of covid is partly because I am concerned that (apart from death and disease) a huge advantage is being given to the Dems / China / Big Pharma.

      For Trump, the virus crashes the economy (with or without lockdowns) it stops him campaigning in large stadiums. It means more voting by mail in ballots.

      More virus = good news for Dems.

      30

      • #
        Jojodogfacedboy

        Canada is the most fortunate country in the world as we have only one country on our boarders. The Oceans on each side is a huge deterrent for migrants.
        Our government should have been smarter to be self-sufficient but it’s not.
        It went all in on massively importation/globalization.
        I see our China connection being severed due to higher costs and the US catching onto China dumping goods into Canada and shipping into the US.

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    TdeF

    “A poll released by Emerson College on Tuesday shows presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden’s lead over President Donald Trump has slipped to three points in the key battleground state of Minnesota.

    The Emerson College poll of 733 likely registered voters in Minnesota was conducted between August 8 and 10, and has a margin of error of 3.6 percent, which means the contest between Biden and Trump in the state is currently a statistical tie.”

    So 733 people. Now how do they assure people it has an accuracy of 3.6%? Easy. They assume a totally random classic Normal distribution in a single variable and one standard deviation, the square root of the number sampled. That’s 100*SQRT(733)/733 or 100/SQRT(733) or 3.69%. Ridiculous.

    No wonder all the polls are wrong! What’s the chance that they checked all voting groups, both sexes, all age groups of eligible voters and there was no intrinsic bias in being happy to answer telephone polls? And they are claiming a 3% lead for Biden!

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      yarpos

      Its surprising how happily the MSM will prattle about what polls say. Its like 2016 never happened. The Rasmussen Poll seems to be one of the few with any credibility.

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    Rocket Rod

    640 European Doctors Gather to Discuss the Overreaction to COVID and How It’s Damaging Society

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/08/640-european-doctors-gather-discuss-overreaction-covid-damaging-society/

    “We want to defend our families and our citizens. Well and to close this, this story is really quite simple. If you look behind the curtains, you’ll see ok, this medical story with COVID-19, we have the facts – IT’S A SCAM – IT’S FAKE.”

    ————

    No kidding – every western government (inc Australia) is BROKE.
    The entire western word economy is collapsing and moving to China.
    The AGW/CO2 lie has imploded, at least to those with functioning brains.
    So… let’s roll out the fake pandemic with a 99.9% survival rate, to implement pleb control measures in the face of what’s REALLY happening.

    Yawn.. amazing how so many people capable of destroying the AGW/CO2 nonsense have been completely fooled by this “pandemic” with one of the lowest mortality rates of any pandemic in 400 years !!!!!

    Have fun everyon !

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  • #

    Sometimes it takes a while to find something.

    Before Ayn Rand wrote Atlas Shrugged, she wrote The Fountainhead. I read that first novel in the early 70s and it was close to the best thing I had read up until then, and I was still only in my early twenties, so reading of novels was a slow build up, having started with what most young men at the time started on, Harold Robbins, and some crime fiction, mainly Arthur W Upfield’s Bony Series.

    I progressed to John O’Hara, Irving Wallace, Calder Willingham, and others and then, curious, I got hold of this Ayn Rand Book, not thinking it would be of much interest to me. But oddly, I couldn’t put it down. Once finished, I looked to see if she had written much else, and I noticed Atlas Shrugged, but I couldn’t find a copy anywhere, and when I mentioned it to an older friend, he told me ….. “You don’t want to read that. It’s subversive!”

    Either way, I couldn’t find a copy anywhere, so it went off my radar, but I promised myself that one day I would read it. In 1992, I found a copy in a second hand book store, and it was still almost brand new. It was an American copy, printed and published in the U.S. The guy at the counter told me it had only been brought in a week or so earlier, by a young American woman, now residing on the Gold Coast with her boyfriend. She had purchased the novel at JFK for the flight west to LAX to pick up the flight to Australia, and she was going to read it on the trip to Oz.

    When I got it home, I found it still had a bookmark in it at around page 80 something, and that bookmark was a business card for a coffee shop in Manhattan.

    I read the book in an almost white heat, and when I had finished, I was disappointed, because I knew I would never read anything that good ever again. I still read (avidly) and while there are an awful lot of good books out there, I think I was close in my assessment.

    I have read it twice since that original reading of it, and I again enjoyed it thoroughly. I also read The Fountainhead a couple of times again as well. It has a similar premise, only expanded on muchly in Atlas. The main person in The Fountainhead is Howard Roark, an architect, and he is similar in nature to John Galt.

    Okay then, picture painted.

    I’m not keen on TV advertisements and when I’m on my own, I usually ‘surf’ the channels as the ads start, a quirky male thing I guess.

    So, on comes the ad, and I lean forward for the remote on the table. The first ad to play is a short and relatively new ad for the new Ford Ranger. There, in the first scene, the young man gets out of his ute, walks to the front door, and sees a mark on the plaque at the front of his office, and rubs it off. I swear it said Howard Roark, Architect, and then it went onto the next guy in his ute, a contract gardener, and then two others in the 35 second TV ad. No more Howard Roark.

    Now, d@mned if they have not played that ad again over the last two weeks, and as much as I looked I could not find it, so, I actually thought maybe it was a quirk.

    I finally found it on the Ford site, after a further short search. It’s the first part of the ad and only has 11 seconds of air time.

    It would seem that someone at Ford has a sense of humour, if that’s what it is, and I seriously wonder how many people would have actually picked up something like this.

    Incidentally, if you can find that novel, it’s a really good read.

    Link to Ford Ranger Ad

    Tony.

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      Lucky

      Tony, excellent.

      “. . by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.”

      It means, once you enforce so-called altruism you will get dictatorship and slavery.

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      Annie

      I caught the Roark name on the plaque and the door but didn’t see the Howard.

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      yarpos

      Not really much of a fiction reader really, but one that had an impact on me was Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. It took me a couple of reads to understand what was going on (or think I did) but the whole discussion about quality, what it is, what it means etc changed the way I thought about things.

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  • #

    TonyfromOz is in moderation for comment at 11.05PM.

    Seemed fairly innocuous really.

    Tony.

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      Serp

      Maybe next time try simply pasting the actual link rather than text which translates into a link; I’ve adopted that policy to escape moderation.

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    Chrism

    the Apple problems pages award points for helpful tips
    contributors with 100 moderated comments without offence don’t need moderating
    a report comment button will allow removal of reported comments until review
    abuse the report button and you are banned from the report button or commenting
    no correspondence entered into

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      yarpos

      seems reasonable , do as we say , talk as we talk, or you are out

      I’m sure those that remain are very comfortable with each other and stay in their assigned boxes.

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    dinn, rob

    These power-crazed, hot-headed maniacs are functioning as if Hitler gave them direct orders to get everyone’s “papers” at all costs. Dressed in black from top to bottom, the S.S. police of Australia have a new style for running their regime, and it’s all fueled and propagandized by the biological weapon and contagion you may know as coronavirus….
    “We had to smash car windows and pull people out because they wouldn’t give us details… they wouldn’t tell us where they’re going” – Victorian S.S. senior policeman quote
    The coronavirus “rules” are so over-the-top now that routing “spot checks” are now like terrorist interrogations with out any probable cause, search warrants, or even your permission https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-08-13-australian-police-go-full-nazi-smashing-car-windows.html
    …………..
    virus origin by Norwegian virologist
    https://balance10.blogspot.com/2020/08/the-simplest-and-most-logical.html

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      MP

      Noticed the change in uniforms
      If you put a little moustache on the top lip of this fella.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3Pepw7RcMs

      QLD rolled out more recruits and the uniform has also changed colour to a dark dark blue, shade short of black.

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      Annie

      I was taken aback by the black shirt and tie.

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      yarpos

      Funny isnt it that in any other context they can put your rego into a computer and they know exactly who the owner is , and where they live , if they have a licence and a criminal record.

      It would seem simple at that stage to take a photo, send them a fine, and turn them around/send them home. But no , they “have” to smash their windows.

      I hope nobody chases me and smashes my window if I go through a speed camaera too fast.

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    dinn, rob

    downhome Kamala
    8-12 Harris has “glad-handed with San Francisco elites for decades,” Vox reported, and is seen as key to Biden’s campaign, which has “struggled until recently to excite the wealthiest and most powerful tech moguls.”
    “Harris will bring superfans from the billionaire class that will supercharge Democrats’ coffers, even though it makes Biden more dependent on these big donors,” the report said. https://www.wnd.com/2020/08/kamalas-key-qualification-idd-schmoozing-billionaires/

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      yarpos

      With a track record like the state of San Francisco these days it should be a smooth glide to the White House.

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    Another Ian

    “Cyclomania a Finnish movie about bicycles. Do you know what else is Finnish? Kamala means ‘horrible’ in Finnish. Horrible Harris, it has a nice ring to it.”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/08/13/more-solar-cyclomania/#comment-3058105

    “Alternative translations of “kamala” are: terrible abysmal dreaded evil ghastly horrendous horrid.

    All of which are appropriate in her case.”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/08/13/more-solar-cyclomania/#comment-3058159

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    u.k.(us)

    I miss Stefan Molyneux.
    Where is he now ??

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    Another Ian

    “Wuhan Covid”: It Is About How Fast, Not How Many”. Time To end Lock Downs.”

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2020/08/13/wuhan-covid-it-is-about-how-fast-not-how-many-time-to-end-lock-downs/

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    Peter C

    Anger Management!

    we’re especially looking for old fashioned good manners.

    That and the ability to ask good questions.

    There are some comments that seem designed to provoke irritation from the start and they often get robust replies. I don’t really object to that but then I usually just skim over the discussion, except if there is a real zinger of a response.

    Best advice. Do Not respond immediately (at least not before you have taken a walk around the block).

    One of the things I like about this blog is that the readers often give really good answers to the questions.

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    • #
      Peter C

      A zinger response par excellence.

      I don’t remember if this came from WUWT or this blog, but it was so good that I copied it;

      “1. Michael Moon says:
      October 20, 2013 at 9:48 pm
      “A vist that, even now, I consider to have been the best field study trip of my entire geoscience career.”
      Am I one of only four people on this site who attended and completed high school? Could we please have a verb in this sentence?
      And, seriously to all, “its” and “it’s” are two far different words, could maybe the moderator make these posts somewhat readable? How about Spell-Check, Bueller, anyone?
      That being said, hot water, cold water, salty and not-so-salty, lots of oxygen and maybe a little less oxygen, NO ONE among the great unwashed voters could possibly CARE LESS, how is this helping to undo the savagery of Gore-Hansen-Schmidt-Nuccitelli? And that clown with the column at NYT?
      This is POLITICS, kids, not science. Science left the building quite some time ago.

      2. wayne says:
      October 20, 2013 at 10:21 pm
      Doug Proctor, never have stayed that close to geology but I learned much from your comment. Not any specifics especially but especially the overview of what you were sharing. Nice.

      3. Keith DeHavelle says:
      October 20, 2013 at 10:41 pm
      I have to chuckle, Michael Moon
      You hit your own ‘submit’ too soon
      For in your blast of snarky slices
      You’ve written several comma splices
      Since punctuation gives you grief
      Use semicolons for relief
      And of the first of sins you note
      You’ve missed a verb in what you wrote:
      “And that clown with the column at NYT?”
      But here’s a larger point: Go light
      When dishing a grammatic slight
      This might be politics to you
      But science must be kept in view
      We’re not just ranting and vote-getting
      And this you seem to be forgetting:
      This is the world’s best science site
      We show the skeptic side is right!
      And if you think it’s crucial here
      (Though education I hold dear)
      An institution’s just one tool
      I never did complete high school
      I had two jobs and needed three
      The time for school eluded me
      So that diploma’s out of reach
      My college time was just to teach
      ===|==============/ Keith DeHavelle”

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    Old-time centre-leftist

    I see ABC Science is promoting carbon-saving pledges. So far, 6600 people pledged to save 1600 tons of carbon dioxide! One may pledge for oneself, one’s family or a school.

    Alternatively, taxpayers could come together and save well over a billion dollars annually by a voting pledge to defund the ABC and SBS.

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    Old-time centre-leftist

    [Duplicate]

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    John R Smith

    Hey Guys,
    (meant as including the full panorama of gender identities)

    I’ve heard there is swirling mass of discarded face masks forming in the Pacific ocean.

    True?

    Thanks … John Smith from America

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      Annie

      I don’t know the answer to that John, but it conjures up a revolting picture. Judging by the bottles and cans and Golden Arches litter that appear along our frontage I can believe it possible.
      We live a long way from any GA outlets too. :(

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    Chad

    Question on Covi data ( Victoria specfic)
    It is obvious that the daily number of tests done varies daily,..sometimes by a large amount
    I know th various sources , including the Health.gov,..Vic.gov , etc,…details the daily +ve test results and the daily Test numbers, etc . Even the Total Tests to date are reported…BUT
    Is there anywhere that keeps a record of the daily test numbers correlated to the +ve results,..either in tabular (dared ) form or graphical.
    The Vic health site used to have a “Date search” facility, but that disapeared a few months ago ?
    I also rcall seeing another independent site with that data graphed, but i cannot find it now.
    Anyone point me in the direction of Victoria’s historic daily testing numbers ??

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      Chad

      oK.. to answer my own question , i have founs records of daily test numbers and +ve results in the vic gov press releases records..
      https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/coronavirus-update-victoria-11-august-2020
      Bottom line is, they are doing 10+ times as much testing now aas they were back in their previous peak period ( March 25-30th ) but only getting 3-4 times the +ve results ??
      EG march 27 th ..111 +ve results and 3000 tests completed
      Yesterday Aug 13th,..278 +ve tests from 21000 tests reported ?
      However, there is little correllation or consistency in these testing numbers, such that my faith in any data reported is low .

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      Chad

      oK.. to answer my own question , i have founs records of daily test numbers and +ve results in the vic gov press releases records..
      https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/coronavirus-update-victoria-11-august-2020
      Bottom line is, they are doing 10+ times as much testing now aas they were back in their previous peak period ( March 25-30th ) but only getting 3-4 times the +ve results ??
      EG march 27 th ..111 +ve results and 3000 tests completed
      Yesterday Aug 13th,..278 +ve tests from 21000 tests reported ?
      However, there is little correllation or consistency in these testing numbers, such that my faith in any data reported is low .

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      yarpos

      not entirely clear what you are trying to work out, but there is a lot of useful stuff at covidlive.com.au

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        Chad

        Some useful stuff, but no historic daily data.
        I am trying to understand what, if any relationship there is between +ve test results, and the number of tests conducted.
        Logic suggests there should be a “ ratio” of sorts, but the number of daily tests conducted seems highly variable…EG,
        Aug 11th, 34,000 tests, 331 +ve
        Aug 13th. 18,900 tests, 372 +ve
        And as a comparason
        March 27th, 3,000 tests,…111 +ve ?
        Do you see the confusion ??

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    Chad

    Hmm ?
    Post date/time sequencing seems to have lost the plot again. !

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    Another Ian

    HUGE breakthrough today! Historic Peace Agreement between our two GREAT friends, Israel and the United Arab Emirates!

    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 13, 2020″

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2020/08/13/art-of-the-deal-51/#comments

    Plus links

    I wonder if “their ABC” is getting an opinion from Snopes?

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    Salome

    Jo, I’ve actually appreciated most of what you’ve written about the ChiCom Virus. It is refreshing to get away from the railings of most of the (so-called) ‘right’-tending authors on my breakfast reading list against the terrible restrictions on liberties. (It worries me that some of the anti-lockdown [tribe] and those breaching directives in the name of a manic libertarianism may have been inspired by some of these commentators, even though that is not what the commentators would have done themselves.) Thanks to you, I’ve been prepared to go along with the restrictions, despite worrying that Mr Andrews (I’m in Melbourne) seemed to be enjoying imposing them. I am, of course, thoroughly resentful of the present situation, caused by incompetence in running quarantine. I’m also greatly disappointed that my fellow citizens didn’t properly go along with Stage 3 the second time around, because introvert that I am, Stage 4 is driving me up the wall (not least because I’m meant to be working and that’s just so much harder to do remotely). But when you start appearing to lauding lockdowns as a way of keeping the flu at bay–too right, I haven’t even had a cold this year, but I’d gladly trade one for the 10 per cent my super fund has lost and a bit more of a normal life–I begin to get concerned. If we stop civilisation for ever, shut down the economy and live like hermits, we’ll quickly exceed our Paris targets and can’t be blamed for any more climate change. Lockdowns, as a temporary measure, o.k. Carefully managed reopening (not, apparently, like NZ)–absolutely necessary. Learning from mistakes–paramount. Love ya, Jo! Just sometimes I become a tad perplexed.

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    • #

      Salome, very much enjoyed hearing your thoughts.

      We’re feeling for all the good people of Victoria. The rest of Australia (most of us) are grateful for those who are putting in the effort to stop the spread.

      As for your perplexity, ditto for me. As a communicator what I thought I said was that we don’t want lockdowns, and we won’t want to quarantine returning flyers, but isn’t it interesting that the data is so incredibly, unbelievably strong? Isn’t there something we can learn from this experiment?

      I thought I recommended we discuss the possibilities of avoiding flu by using antivirals, more masks, and encouraging people to take days off?

      ?

      PS: Slight edit on one word. I’m asking commenters to try extra hard not to be inflammatory on this topic…

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    tom0mason

    A very good read all about COVID PCR tests and how it is now being abused to give Government/medical authorities the results they want. The start of the piece is all about it’s history and HIV testing, about 2/3 of the way through it get to the COVID testing.

    https://uncoverdc.com/2020/04/07/was-the-covid-19-test-meant-to-detect-a-virus/

    It basically says because there is not a ‘gold standard’ COVID-19 virus standard (no purified CODID-19), the PCR tests give about a 80% false positive result depending on the number of iterations made (which is NOT standardized!). More iterations more chances of being found positive for the virus.

    “PCR detects a very small segment of the nucleic acid which is part of a virus itself. The specific fragment detected is determined by the somewhat arbitrary choice of DNA primers used which become the ends of the amplified fragment. “

    It is a method whereby you can amplify up any DNA/RNA ‘test sequence’ you want by interactively cycling the test.

    One of the countless head-spinning mysteries of this whole Corona Situation has been the advent of famous people, from Tom Hanks and his wife, to Sophie Trudeau, to Prince Charles announcing they had “tested positive” for COVID-19 and were self-quarantining. In all these famous-powerful people cases, the symptoms were either non-existent or mild. Why, one wondered, did they make such hay about it? The British Royals, especially, seemed to contradict their ethos of secrecy in this case. So what did it mean? It signaled, if anything, that COVID-19 is not all that deadly. That the virus can be present without causing the disease. That host factors matter. And that being “positive” for COVID-19 is neither a PR death sentence nor an actual death sentence. Maybe in their elite and esoteric language, it means some kind of prestige, or sacrament to a Pagan Virus Deity. Who knows? In the case of the Trudeau, Sophie tested positive, and had symptoms, while her husband Justin, the Prime Minister, never got sick, and was never tested. (He didn’t want to appear privileged; Not everybody can get tested in Canada, you must have symptoms.)

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    • #

      tomo… does not look like this is written by a person who is very well informed.

      It is true that over cycling can produce artifacts but this is dealt with by not doing so ie it is false to say that it is not standardised. It is.

      PCR detects a very small segment of the nucleic acid which is part of a virus itself. The specific fragment detected is determined by the somewhat arbitrary choice of DNA primers used which become the ends of the amplified fragment. “

      Primers are designed and tested with cross-reactivity in mind. Prior to release they are used to amplify many (1000s) of samples known not to contain virus to detect a false positive rate. Furthermore the primers themselves are chosen for efficiency and specificity. Specificity can be checked against the vast DNA data bases to see if chance similarity exists anywhere else, including closely related viruses. Efficiency is achieved by using priming sites that have certain characteristics (lack of hairpins, highish annealing temperature) and which amplify as short a piece of DNA that works in an RT system.

      the second quote betrays the author as someone with a bunch of mixed up fearful conspiracies.

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    Orson

    New Zealand will stay in level 3 for Auckland (essential services and non contact purchases permitted, economy at 80% of normal), level 2 for the rest, for another 12 days, ie, Wednesday 26th of August. This will be a total of 14 days until a review may change this.

    The cluster threat in the resurgence of Covid-19 remains a single one, fortunately. Further cases are expected to be identified, and contact tracing as well as mass public testing are continuing.

    The most interesting development is that the initial index case with a family of 4 involved has been pushed back to a co-worker in the same cold storage warehouse workplace, developing sickness on July 31st. In theory, this could complicate controlling the spread of the virus to a single cluster. Time will tell.

    Another development of interest is that genomic testing rules out any ‘burning ember’ from the prior outbreak hypothesis. Instead, the virus origin’s is recent.

    Does the outbreak then originate from holes in the border control? Still unknown, and this still cannot be eliminated.

    Orson comments: With New Zealand finances otherwise in good shape, if the threat level can be lowered to 1, then footy can return by September (although the Dunedin game is still on this weekend). If we project this single event of an outbreak after 102 days forward — a hazardous assumption — the country might then have another cluster outbreak by December.

    Then comes the international sailing race in summer months bringing world-wide attention, America’s Cup. By summer, we hope an effective vaccine to be deployed and lower world-wide threat of Covid-19 virus spread by next year and autumn.

    — PM address and news conference Friday, early evening, via Radio NZ

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    greggg

    There doesn’t seem to be much point to wearing a cloth mask. ‘Cloth masks were found to have low efficiency for blocking particles of 0.3 microns and smaller. Aerosol penetration through the various cloth masks examined in this study were between 74 and 90%. Likewise, the filtration efficiency of fabric materials was 3% to 33%’
    ‘Healthcare workers wearing cloth masks were found to have 13 times the risk of influenza-like illness than those wearing medical masks.’
    Wearing a P2/N95 mask for much of the day would not be good for health.
    ‘Pregnant healthcare workers were found to have a loss in volume of oxygen consumption by 13.8% compared to controls when wearing N95 respirators. 17.7% less carbon dioxide was exhaled.’
    ’19% of the patients developed various degrees of hypoxemia while wearing the masks.’
    https://patientsafetyradio.com/masks-unmasked-1/
    Wearing only well fitted P2/N95 masks only in close proximity to others in areas where the virus is circulating would seem to be the best choice. I guess the cloth mask is more about getting people scared of the virus and doing as they’re told.

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      Serp

      Here in Victoria one is sharing the air at the indoor fruit market with people wearing face shields and no mask quite within the rules.

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    Slithers

    I hope that this post turns out to be a false positive, but, thought you good people should know something about what is going on.
    I live in an aged care facility. This evening when on my way to the dinning area A neighbor popped his head out and asked me a favor, ‘Could I get him and his wife a bottle of milk, please?’
    I agreed and went to the kitchen servery and asked for some milk for my neighbor.
    One of the kitchen staff told me I could not have it!
    Now my neighbor and his wife are in poor health and frequently have to visit medical facilities, they were in the local Town most of Monday. They have not been out their door since returning.
    I sent an urgent e-mail to the Regional business manager requesting information, were they in quarantine?
    His reply, ‘I don’t know I will investigate!

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    yarpos

    Re comments

    I understand what you are saying a requesting. However , the onus isnt all on us.

    You want considered comment and less friction? How about the ability to edit a comment? How about the ability to ignore a user? I do understand such things probably cost.

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      Lucky

      General rule for internet users-
      Read and check your comment carefully before pressing the Post/Enter button.
      Once gone, that contribution is there for ever.
      The person who wrote the comment and pressed Post is responsible, not the website.

      Ignore a user-
      There was a poster, now departed and un-lamented, that I would ignore.
      I do not have a protocol for showing a link to internal mental programs.

      Hey, just in case you take it all seriously, I can write with even more pomposity (ex-public service).

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    yarpos

    I give up, have a good weekend all

    00

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    TdeF

    And this ‘it’s not correct to say’ rubbish? Every other state used the police and the army. Or was Daniel Andrews ignorant of that? Didn’t know who decided not to use them. He was unaware that they were available, even the same police he is directing now? News to me stuff. He and all his ministers using the ‘Cannot comment on a matter before the court’ line, the very court he set up to cover his tracks. The judge put him right. She wanted answers too.

    It comes from making someone Premier of a State without demanding they have an ordinary day job first, like say paper boy. The sort of job where you get into trouble if you do not do your job.

    And of course he felt he had the total authority to sign a Belt and Road contract with communist China when that is illegal under our constitution. No care, no responsibility, no accountability to anyone. And he’s very sorry, perhaps, but it’s someone else’s fault. And Cardinal George Pell was guilty because Dan says so.

    We tolerate politicians, but this one is intolerable. And he won’t give up his dream job, no matter how much it costs us or how many lives.

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    robert rosicka

    TdeF doesn’t WA use security guards at quarantine hotels ?

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    Lucky

    Well, my preference would be to have security guards from meatworkers and overseas students rather than from the Vic police who have an unwholesome reputation. (The travesty of justice over George Pell is only a part).

    41

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    yarpos

    Danial Andrews ignorant? you might say that, I couldnt possibly comment. Especially under the new regime :-)

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    TdeF

    Fair question. I do not know, but to call random inexperienced students hired over social media security guards is a bit rich. The one interviewed by the Australian was a 19 year old Indian student who was given no training, no instruction, no protective equipment and obviously had no experience whatsoever. Security guard? We wish. She sat in a chair all night and didn’t come back the next night because it was boring. And what would she do, what could she do if someone wanted to go shopping in an open city of five million people?

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    Strop

    Yes, and have ADF doing hotel lower levels as added security which controls entry and exit.

    The other difference to Victoria is the security company in WA is not a backyarder and subletting contracts. The WA govt has proper protocols and a security firm that understands them.
    Unlike in Vic where the security firm was appointed and left to figure things out for themself with the cheapest possible casual untrained staff they could find.

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    Mark Mcgowan looked very stressed as Vic went down in late June. I believe our quarantine measures were ramped up at that point. Gung-ho went, and people sobered up.

    So yes, WA has done well, but there was some luck involved. And may yet be.

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    TdeF

    And then you have to ask, if you hired a security firm (four were involved) wouldn’t you have some sort of expectation of expertise, authority, training, equipment, coordination? And these firms were hired without tender or any form of examination as far as we know. And they hired the cheapest unqualified people available. It’s a wonder they didn’t pay the guests to self isolate? It was all fake and presumably cost tens of millions. And we, the people of Victoria paid for everything. With 200+ lives in a matter of weeks. And many more to come.

    So why aren’t the firms being prosecuted for misrepresentation? Or was this just a big pile of money and nobody would notice? Like hiding the infected worker at Cedar meats so they could stay open for the big Eid celebration and double staff? And the owner gave $14,000 to the Labor party.

    Money is behind all of this.

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    robert rosicka

    Yes TdeF you would hope it was a more professional outfit and given they’ve only had one minor faux pa so far they are doing something right .

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    TdeF

    It’s a scandal on the scale of the Grenfell fires in London or the explosion on the harbour at Beirut or the Costa Concordia. Except the number dead at Grenfell was 70 and Costa Concordia was 32. The total cost of this infamy is likely to be a thousand people, three plane loads. And so unnecessary and futile and our Premier has no idea who is responsible.

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    yarpos

    groan, that was supposed to go with #47

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    yarpos

    I wonder if this reply to #56 gets randomly placed as well?

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    Possibly some comments were deleted from the moderation list (even duplicates). That can muck up the nesting and ordering. Apologies.

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