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Countries that use Hydroxychloroquine may have 80% lower Covid death rates

The  scandal from the Swamp: Too rich to get a cheap drug?

Poor countries all over the world are using Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) and it appears to be very useful.

The new HCQTrial suggests that despite the billion dollar budgets and expert staff, people in wealthier countries are dying from Coronavirus at far higher rates than people are in lands where HCQ is being used. And the effect of HCQ apparently holds even after researchers correct for patients being older, heavier, with higher blood pressure, living in high density apartment towers, or with getting tested more.

If word ever gets out that the Politico-Academic-Corporate-Swamp buried useful drugs because they were unprofitable and out of patent, there will be hell to pay.

The HCQTrial was done anonymously by @CovidAnalysis – who say they are PhD researchers, scientists.

You can find our research in journals like Science and Nature. For examples of why we can’t be more specific search for “raoult death threats” or “simone gold fired”. We have little interest in adding to our publication lists, being in the news, or being on TV (we have done all of these things before but feel there are more important things in life now).

It’s a mark of the times when people do a lot of work but don’t want credit. They just want to get the answers out there. When the main tool of public argument is ad hominem, this is sometimes how it has to be.

Hydroxychloroquine use, country by country, graph. Death rate. Mortality.

Hydroxychloroquine use, country by country, graph. Death rate. Mortality.

It’s not often a trial announces they put 2 billion people into the treatment group. But they literally included the world, then found 5 billion exceptions — some nations chopped and changed drug policy, some took up masks, and others isolated too soon to get really sick (New Zealand and Australia).  They were all ruled out. Some countries were too young or too small to be included. So they found nations that either did or didn’t use HCQ and stuck with the policy and followed them through to see what happened.

The raw data shows mortality rates are 87% lower, but when adjusted for confounders (like the age of the population) the mortality rates were only 79% lower. “Only”.

The low death nations include Cuba, India, Turkey, Indonesia, Algeria, Greece, Ukraine, Costa Rica, Russia, Morocco and Israel. Not all of which are poor.

The list itself may be a shock — for people in the West to find out that so many countries are using it.

Hydroxychloroquine is a 60 year old drug used by millions of people around the world. The wholesale cost is about $5US for a whole month of treatment in Africa. In the US HCQ (Hydroxycholoroquine) was approved in 1955, and there are about 5 million prescriptions for it every year for things like Malaria, Rheumatoid Arthritis and Lupus. About 15 years ago it was shown to work against SARS the close-cousin to Covid-19-WuFlu. It’s one of the most prescribed drugs in the world and people sometimes take it for years.  The side effects and risks are well known, and doctors already know who shouldn’t take it. The “dangerous” drug is mainly dangerous to Corporate profits. It threatens Big Pharma which has taken some breathtaking punts on new drugs and new vaccines.

Take the 80% figure with some skepticism. Country by country comparisons are the lowest grade of medical studies — hunting for answers under a hill of confounding factors — but this is a well thought out, respectable study. It isn’t a prospective placebo controlled trial, and other factors may be influencing this result– like levels of sunlight or Vitamin D status (which isn’t mentioned). Genetics may also confound the results — things like blood groups, ACE2 expression, immune factors, past infections — all these things may affect wealthy Western nations differently.  As far as Vitamin D goes, cold Russia is in the low death camp, along with sunny Cuba — suggesting that there is no simple “high sunlight” rule.

A month ago the Ford study suggested HCQ might have reduced mortality by 50%.

South Korea has been recommending we use this drug since February 13th. Curiously, they were ruled out of this study, by the way, because they took up wearing masks too quickly, which the authors said reduced both infections and mortality.

Why is the West banning this drug?

There may be a good reason, but why isn’t the question the top priority in the highest corridors of politics? If we don’t have enough HCQ, then isn’t it time to discuss a plan to manufacture it ourselves? Shouldn’t we give our health care workers the option to use it?

The biggest treatment group in the world:

 2.0 billion people were assigned to the treatment group, and 663 million to the control group. As of August 6, 2020, an average of 38.5/million in the treatment group have died, and 440.2/million in the control group, relative risk 0.087. After adjustments, treatment and control deaths become 79.6/million and 630.0/million, relative risk 0.13.

The adjusted data (graphed below), which is also modeled out for 90 days, is where the 80% lower mortality rate is estimated from.

Hydroxychloroquine use, country by country, graph. Death rate. Mortality.

Hydroxychloroquine use, country by country, adjusted for demographic factors and extended out for 90 days.

People, like Sydney Morning Herald writers are being willingly fooled by badly done studies which start the drug too late when patients are already in a severe state and use it without the cofactors — zinc and an antibiotic. Some studies are so badly designed, it’s almost like they were not meant to succeed.

ABSTRACT

Many countries either adopted or declined early treatment with HCQ, forming a large country-randomized controlled trial. 2.0 billion people were assigned to the treatment group, and 663 million to the control group. As of August 6, 2020, an average of 38.5/million in the treatment group have died, and 440.2/million in the control group, relative risk 0.087. After adjustments, treatment and control deaths become 79.6/million and 630.0/million, relative risk 0.13. Confounding factors affect this estimate, including varying degrees of spread between countries. Accounting for predicted changes in spread, we estimate a relative risk of 0.21. The treatment group has 79.1% lower chance of death. We examined diabetes, obesity, hypertension, life expectancy, population density, urbanization, testing level, and intervention level, which do not account for the effect observed.

The final word from the FAQ:

Why should we trust @CovidAnalysis?
There is no need to. We provide organization and analysis, but all sources are public and you can easily verify everything. For the country-based analysis, all data is public and the analysis is simple to replicate. We also note that many equally qualified experts report contradictory conclusions. If you don’t like our analysis, you can use our database to locate information you may have missed for your own research.

h/t Dave B.

REFERENCE

Early treatment with hydroxychloroquine: a country-randomized controlled trial, Covid Analysis, August 5, 2020

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Rating: 9.5/10 (106 votes cast)
Countries that use Hydroxychloroquine may have 80% lower Covid death rates, 9.5 out of 10 based on 106 ratings

178 comments to Countries that use Hydroxychloroquine may have 80% lower Covid death rates

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    hcq+ can save lives because it’s safety profile is well known.

    This is in response to the FDA’s cautionary statement from last month about the cardiac risks of HCQ.

    https://www.medicineuncensored.com/dangerous-drug-or-innocent-victim

    “Hydroxychloroquine has been safely used in millions of patients with approximately 20 reported deaths worldwide attributed to its use over the past 50+ years.
    In the setting of a short course of treatment with hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19, it is highly unlikely that fatal cardiac cases are from hydroxychloroquine use, especially during the early stage of COVID-19.
    It is far more likely that the disease itself is the cause of arrhythmias and cardiac injury during the hyperinflammation phase of COVID-19.”

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    • #
      cohenite

      Hydroxy is opposed for 2 reasons: Trump supported it and since it is an off-exclusivity drug no one or no business owns it and therefore large profits cannot be made from it since anyone can make and sell it.

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      • #
        Ted O’Brien.

        Because it is cheap and in the public domain it brings no gravy train. If it is effective it will shut out of the market more modern drugs, including drugs under development.

        For that reason alone there is likely to be big, even fraudulent opposition to the use of HCQ for treating CV19’, driven by competitors in the market.

        While the Trump Derangement Syndrome should be only a sideshow, it does carry a lot of weight in political circles.

        There are a number of precedents for this case. The biggest and most suspicious is the AGW scam, followed by the Hole in the Ozone Layer. Two lesser ones were the banning of Chlordane and 2,4,5-T.

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      • #
        Chris

        A third reason. Anthony Fauci, who supported Hydroxychloroquin in 2005 for SARS-1 fudged for SARS -2 ( Covid19). Robert Kennedy Jnr has accused Fauci of owning 1/2 of the patent for a ‘ potential’ vaccine drug. This drug if used will make Mr Fauci a billionaire.

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        • #
          Ted O'Brien.

          I’m sure I saw Fauci early on decrying the use of masks. Such conflicting advice from him and others is surely a substantial cause of the loss of public confidence which led to such things as we have seen in Victoria.

          Masks can’t eliminate the virus, but they can impede its progress,

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        • #
          ian hilliar

          I wonder if Fauci will start crowd avoidance, or at least wear a bullet proof vest.

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  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    “One example Hatfill cited that shows the drug has been effective in Switzerland, which briefly banned hydroxychloroquine after the bogus studies linking the drug to higher mortality rates came out.

    What happened? Just look at the graph.” ( http://www.francesoir.fr/societe-sante/covid-19-hydroxychloroquine-works-irrefutable-proof)

    “Looking at the evolution curve of this index for Switzerland,” explain Michel Jullian and Xavier Azalbert for FranceSoir, “we note a ‘wave of excess lethality’ of two weeks from June 9th to 22nd, with a lag of a dozen days compared to the period of suspension of the use of hydroxychloroquine by WHO.

    This demonstrates, without possible rebuttal, the effect of stopping the delivery and use of this drug in Switzerland (country which follows the recommendations of the WHO, based in Geneva).

    During the weeks preceding the ban, the nrCFR index fluctuated between 3% and 5%.

    Some 13 days after the start of the prohibition, the nrCFR index increases considerably to be between 10 and 15% for 2 weeks.

    Some 12 days after the end of the prohibition, the lethality falls back to a lower level.”

    via: https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/matt-margolis/2020/08/07/theres-a-mountain-of-evidence-that-hydroxychloroquine-is-an-effective-treatment-for-covid-19-n763953

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    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Extraordinary that such compelling detail could come about basically by accident.

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      • #
        yarpos

        Its no accident thats the Swiss are obsessive stats gatherers. It rules many of their decisions and law making and results in very targetted laws e.g. in Switzerland certain nationalities are banned from owning firearms, to get a local driving licence certain nationalities are just given one, others have to be tested. Imagine the outcry if we did anything like that here.

        You can also never be a full Swiss citizen as a foriegner you just move to a higher grade of Permit, nor are you Swiss if you are born there if your parents arent Swiss.

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  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    A couple of quick related links:

    Europe’s Top Health Officials Say Masks Aren’t Helpful in Beating COVID-19
    The top medical experts in the world can’t decide if masks are helpful in reducing the spread of COVID-19 or just make things worse.

    https://fee.org/articles/europes-top-health-officials-say-masks-arent-helpful-in-beating-covid-19/?utm_source=zapier

    Whoops:

    The great epidemiologist Donald Henderson in 2006:
    “Communities faced with epidemics respond best and with the least anxiety when normal social functioning is least disrupted.
    [Otherwise] a manageable epidemic could move toward catastrophe.”

    http://www.upmc-biosecurity.org/website/resources/publications/2006/2006-09-15-diseasemitigationcontrolpandemicflu.html

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  • #
    Zigmaster

    When media and Democrats put the blame for the poor coronavirus response on Donald Trump for once they were right? If only he had kept his mouth shut about the prospective benefits of Hydroxychloroquin they wouldn’t have felt compelled to discredit it . Whilst the greed of Big Pharma is touted as the reason for demonising Hydroxychloroquin there is no doubt the desire to get rid of Trump is the most compelling factor. I see the action of the swamp in its behaviour on this matter as being overtly criminal and has led to much higher death rates than would’ve been otherwise.

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    • #
      Ross

      Not sure that is completely correct. Fauci from the US CDC knows HCQ works (there are statements authored by him in previous years stating this) but he is on the great vaccine train. That’s the express train stopping all stations and everyone has to jump aboard. But that train needs to speed up a bit – because a lot of countries who can afford vaccines may in fact be approaching some form of herd immunity. This story should be headlined ” Zelenko protocol” not just hydroxychloroquine.

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    • #
      ian hilliar

      Very interesting, looking at differing views of “Trump’s spruiking of HCQ”. Bahrain’s heath minister watched Trump announce Dr Zalenko’s possible breakthrough in using HCQ to treat Wuflu. Instead of shooting the messenger, he RANG Dr Zalenko, in New York, and asked if he could send him copies of his data. After a quick analysis of the data, he arranged supplies of HCQ so that, from the first confirmed covid case, ALL cases of Wuflu in Bahrain were treated with HCQ. And the numbers are brilliant. No wonder Trump continues to look a bit confused. Do you think we could arrange for the Victorian health minister to do the same? Nah, aint gonna happen. They would rather die, (or rather thousands of other people die) than admit that TRUMP IS CORRECT.

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  • #
    James Murphy

    A study where all the data is publicly available, and the analyses can be replicated? This sounds like something the anti-science brigade will complain about.

    In addition to the money to be made from vaccines, why would pharmaceutical companies want to damage a seller’s market? (A survey shows that US citizens already think the Wuhan Flu has killed 9% of the population -page 24)

    I still think the main reason for avoiding its use is that Trump mentioned it, and the majority of the media has their useful idiots onside – the population is expendable as long as it means that he can’t take any credit for anything positive.

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  • #
    William Astley

    You can ‘fool’ all of the people some of the time….

    But when a group of people get caught hiding a very effective drug at a time of pandemic, which logically is either mass murder or criminal negligence causing death….. people will be charged with a very, very serious crimes, some of them need to go to jail. Corruption can only stops when the general population find out and action is taken.

    There is sufficient evidence to understand the problem ‘situation’. Medical reality does not change depending on which group runs the HCQ cocktail ‘study’.

    Those who lied, created ‘fake studies by giving the HCQ cocktail late in the virus’s progress to generate false results, block all discussions on platforms, banned the use of the HCQ cocktail in their country…..and so on…

    Those company officials whose sites blocked the HCQ cocktail discussions, which was obviously 100% political as the evidence is that the HCQ cocktail is a highly effective early covid treatment, should be charged with criminal negligence causing death. CNN in particular in the US.

    Those who generated fake studies HCQ vs COVID studies should be charge with mass murder.

    Early HCQ triple cocktail treatment resulted in 5 times less all cause deaths.

    https://techstartups.com/2020/04/03/updates-from-dr-vladimir-zelenko-now-treated-700-coronavirus-patients-with-99-9-success-rate-using-hydroxychloroquine-zinc-sulfate-and-z-pak-1-outpatient-died-after-not-following-protocol-exclusi/

    Updates from Dr. Vladimir Zelenko: 700 coronavirus patients treated with 99.9% success rate using Hydroxychloroquine, 1 outpatient died after not following protocol.

    https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202007.0025/v1

    COVID-19 Outpatients – Early Risk-Stratified Treatment with Zinc Plus Low Dose Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin: A Retrospective Case Series Study

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  • #
    Lance

    HCQ is one of several zinc ionophores. Quercetin is another ionophore that shows significant zinc transport properties.

    Wonder if this might be of use where HCQ is either in short supply or banned outright.

    Anyway, good reading:

    Antiviral Effects of Quercetin through Zinc Ionophore Activity

    https://gilbertlab.com/neutraceuticals/quercetin/antiviral-zinc-ionophore/

    Zinc ionophore activity of quercetin and epigallocatechin-gallate: from Hepa 1-6 cells to a liposome model

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25050823/

    My wife takes quercetin to offset most effects from her allergies. Seems to work for that, as well.

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    • #
      Lance

      Hmm. Apparently, there is a “Quercetin Protocol” as well as the HCQ protocol.

      (2/3 way down the page for link) https://faculty.utrgv.edu/eleftherios.gkioulekas/zelenko/index.html

      It is a “dietary supplement” that requires no prescription.

      Colunga Biancatelli Ruben Manuel Luciano, Berrill Max, Catravas John D., Marik Paul E., “Quercetin and Vitamin C: An Experimental, Synergistic Therapy for the Prevention and Treatment of SARS-CoV-2 Related Disease (COVID-19)”, Frontiers in Immunology 11 (2020), 1451

      link: https://doi.org/10.3389/fimmu.2020.01451

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      • #
        David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

        Yes Lance,
        The quercetin link you mention is to a MedCram video dated, and also posted here, back in April – I didn’t record by whom, but I think it was by someone in the US, as I had to check whether the Oz laws also allowed for its purchase without a prescription. It can be, and I have, and have been taking it for about the last 6 weeks. With zinc, and vitamin d.
        My experience cannot be considered any sort of a test as I’m not regularly in contact with potential cases, but I can say that I’ve had no adverse reaction to any of those, even the 6000 IU daily dose of vitamin D.
        You mention “several zinc ionophores”. I thought I was lucky to find the one alternative to HCQ. What others did you find?
        Cheers
        Dave B
        Cooyal

        30

        • #
          Lance

          David, not exhaustive, but what info found:

          Zinc ionophores transport extracelluar Zn2+ ions across a cell membrane, and have been studied for their anti-viral and anti-cancer activities.[9][10]

          Quinoline derivatives:

          Chloroquine (4-Aminoquinoline)[11]
          Clioquinol (8-Hydroxyquinoline)[10]
          Diiodohydroxyquinoline (Quinoline)[12]
          PBT2 (8-Hydroxyquinoline analog)[13]

          Terpenoids and flavonols:

          Quercetin[14]

          Other compounds:

          Epigallocatechin gallate[14]
          Pyrithione (ZnHPT)[15][10][16]
          Pyrrolidine dithiocarbamate (PDTC)[17]
          Zincophorin[10]

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionophore

          See also: https://iubmb.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/iub.253

          https://www.cancertreatmentsresearch.com/unlocking-zincs-potential-to-fight-cancer/

          Fisetin is another bioflavonoid that is a zinc ionophore. That said, it is 10 x more expensive than quercetin dihydrate.

          see https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-422X-8-560
          https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Fisetin

          I suppose the quercetin is the most economical alternative to HCQ. Other choices exist, but more expensive.

          I take a 500 mg querciten daily with 25 mg zn and D3, C. Precautionary. If I get fever symptoms, ever, the quercetin gets bumped up to 1000 mg/day. maybe the zinc to 50 mg. My choices, not advice to you.

          Then again, the Bombay Sapphire and tonic might help some as well. :)
          A few of those and things seem to get better and better. :)

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          • #
            David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

            Thanks Lance.
            Quite a lot, but I will also go with the the low cost option.
            Cheers
            Dave B

            40

            • #

              Lance David, Quercetin is a flavinoid and also an antihistamine — hence the links with allergies. It’s found in red onions and apple peels, tea, broccoli, grapes, berries. It is also antiviral, and suppresses IL4 (an inflammatory cytokine).

              HCQ is much more than a zinc ionophore. There are anti inflammatory aspects that may be even more important. HCQ interferes with lysosomal activity and autophagy, as well as with cytokine release.

              121

              • #
                David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

                Agree Jo,
                And I’d very happily take HCQ as a preventative – if I could get it. But my doc described it as being “reserved”, and as far as I can tell I would not be given it even if I was admitted to hospital with proven symptoms and/or test results. So, in self preservation mode, I’m using the quercetin for its ionophore function, and my 6000 IU per day of vitamin D to boost my immune system in the hope that it provides at least some of the other four functions of HCQ.
                Some of the articles suggest that the vitamin D alone may be sufficient if I get to a high enough blood level, but I’ve decided to go with the ionophore as well, to be sure.
                Cheers
                Dave B

                71

              • #
                Ernest Bus

                Quercetin is readily available from Amazon and I have ordered a bottle. Thanks for the warning that HCQ interferes with autophagy. I have lost over 40 pounds using intermittent fasting and I have 12 to go to reach my goal. I was going to ask my doctor if I could have it prescribed as a preventive (I’m 76 years old) but I will go with Quercetin and zinc for now.

                00

              • #
                Ernest Bush

                Sorry I misspelled my name and accidentally double posted. Wow!

                11

              • #

                Jo

                Will you present this information formally to the Victorian health authority that has condemned Hydroxychloroquine and demand a official response setting the reasons why this drug is not allowed to be used in Victoria.

                50

              • #
                Geoff Sherrington

                In 1993 Colleen and I went to far west China in search of a myth come true, that there were Camellia species with flowers the bright yellow of the daffodil. From the world famous Kunming Institute of Botany, we obtained cuttings of 3 species, the best being Camellia tunghinensis. There were only 380 plants of this known then in the wild, so we propagated it back in Melbourne to provide another safe haven. We complied with full, formal Customs and quarantine regs and laws. You cannot do this now because of the restrictive United Nations Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species, CITES.
                The main chemical providing the yellow pigment is a quercetin.
                Tea, the drink, is made from the leaves of another species, Camellia sinensis. A cottage industry was already growing in 1993, a magic potion to cure many ailments (the list included “thirst”) made from the Camellia plant. One with golden flowers is great to market, so Jin Cha Hua has taken off, to help in a roundabout way, with the global commercial preservation of another very, very rare species.
                There is a story behind every chemical.
                No quercetin was harmed in the production of this story. Geoff S

                21

        • #
          Reverse Transcriptase

          Dave,
          Elsewhere I posted this list.
          This is what I take daily:
          Quercetin (found in apples)
          Zinc Picolinate
          Vitamin C
          Vitamin D3
          Oil of Oregano
          Orange Juice
          Tonic Water
          To which I now add Vitamin K2

          All of these items are legally available from good health food stores.
          Again please note I am not offering anyone medical advice, just to follow the old maxim:
          “An apple a day keeps the doctor away”.
          Oil of Oregano is highly aromatic, so if you can’t smell it you may already be in trouble.

          20

    • #
      John PAK

      According to American Frontline Doctors (AFD) they take hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) weekly with a daily zinc supplement. They reckon the HCQ has various effects and helps transport Zn across the cell membrane so that it can interfere with reverse transcriptase and thus slow viral replication. Dr S Gold was sacked recently from her ED position for daring to speak out about what AFD are doing. AFD videos were censored from social media platforms according to Mercola.com.
      It looks as if there is corporate fraud going on.

      140

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    Here’s a thought.

    Trump’s deplorables can take HCQ, and the Biden’s elitist progressives can take Bill Gates’s new vaccine …

    Bill Gates denies conspiracy theories that say he wants to use coronavirus vaccines to implant tracking devices
    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/22/bill-gates-denies-conspiracy-theories-that-say-he-wants-to-use-coronavirus-vaccines-to-implant-tracking-devices.html

    Bill Gates issued a stark warning for the world: ‘As awful as this pandemic is, climate change could be worse’
    https://www.businessinsider.com.au/bill-gates-coronavirus-warning-climate-change-worse-than-covid-2020-8?r=US&IR=Tv

    Bill Gates transformed from computer nerd into Ernst Stavro Blofeld so quickly I didn’t even notice it.

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    • #
      Lance

      Not so sure I’d trust Bill Gates to give advice on anti-virus effectiveness.

      He still hasn’t made a Windows version that wasn’t prone to virus effects, and that’s been over 30 years in the attempt.

      :)

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    • #
      PeterS

      I’ve known for decades that there was something odd about Bill Gates. How could someone who had developed the worst operating system in the world manage to make it the most popular? I’ve studied various possible answers to that question and it all comes down to one thing. He is driven to succeed no matter what. Now let’s watch what will happen with his idea to micro-chip and vaccinate everyone. I’m not looking forward to that idea coming to fruition.

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      • #
        RicDre

        “How could someone who had developed the worst operating system in the world manage to make it the most popular?”

        The answer to that question is pretty simple; MSDOS/Windows ran on open, non-proprietary computer systems which allowed many companies to develop hardware and software for Windows-based computers. Its main computer rival at the time, the Apple Mac, was a closed, proprietary system on which Apple tightly controlled the available hardware, hardware upgrades and software and for which they charged a premium for the privilege of owning a Mac. People were generally willing to live with a more buggy OS because the hardware on which it ran had far more hardware and software available for it at a much better price than the Mac did.

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        • #
          Lance

          Ric: MS-DOS & Windows utilize DLLs (Dynamic Link Libraries) that are called by programs to do certain things.
          Microsoft allowed 3rd party vendors to remove and replace DLLs to speed up games and apps so long as their custom DLL provided the original functionality. Didn’t take long for the virus boys to figure out that “if they can do it, we can too”. So, that “open source” stuff had an Achilles Heel built into the cake. Further on, Windows allows all users some level of access to the OS, especially on networks and servers. The first user on a windows box is automatically granted Administrator privileges. Most people don’t understand what the means in the long term. Always create and use a limited privilege account on a Win box for normal use. Reserve the Admin account for Admin purposes.

          Mac was essentially a customized Linux kernel. So the Windows virus software commands didn’t work and don’t usually work on a Mac, or on Unix/Linux.

          Unix/Linux, by default, isolates every user from every other user and all of them from the OS unless temporarily in Root mode / God Mode. Much like the old Mainframe/Mini-Mainframe systems where the OS was on a separate disk platter and isolated from the user space. Unix/Linux is inherently more secure by virtue of its architecture. Not saying it can’t be hacked, but a lot more difficult than Windows.

          Properly set up, a Unix/Linux system is fairly bulletproof. Windows, not so much.

          Server farms run Unix/Linux, as do the more reliable RAID servers and NAS devices. Servers on Linux can toggle a single client without taking the system down, unlike Windows. And, Windows accumulates “crap” simply from being powered up. In a few days, a Win box needs to be rebooted just to clear the crap in logfiles and caches. Linux systems have seen up to 10 years between reboots if configured well.

          Oh well. To each, their own. MS did make things popular, but at a future cost.

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          • #
            RicDre

            “Mac was essentially a customized Linux kernel.”

            The original MAC OS was not based on a UNIX Kernel. That didn’t happen until Apple bought Next Computer from Steve Jobs and at the same time re-hired Mr. Jobs. As part of that deal, Apple agree to use the NextStep OS (which was based on Mach & BSD UNIX Kernels) as the basis for a re-port the MAC/OS to UNIX and became MAC OS X. As an aside, the Next Computer cost $6,500 (equivalent to $14,100 in 2019) and did not sell very well, essentially it suffered the same fate as the Apple LISA. Luckily for Mr. Jobs, Apple once again bailed Mr. Jobs out of a bad business decision, and in the long run saving and re-hiring Steve Jobs likely also saved Apple.

            20

            • #
              Lance

              I ought have said a modified/customized Unix kernel

              macOS is a UNIX 03-compliant operating system certified by The Open Group. It has been since 2007, starting with MAC OS X 10.5. The only exception was Mac OS X 10.7 Lion, but compliance was regained with OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion.

              Amusingly, just as GNU stands for “GNU’s Not Unix,” XNU stands for “X is Not Unix.”

              https://www.howtogeek.com/441599/is-macos-unix-and-what-does-that-mean/

              So, the Parent is Unix, the children are mac and linux. They share similar architecture.

              10

            • #
              RicDre

              “So, the Parent is Unix, the children are mac and linux. They share similar architecture.”

              Yes, that’s true now, but as I said, it wasn’t true of the original Mac OS and is probably only true now because Apple wanted to re-hire Steve Jobs and Mr. Jobs insisted on the port of original Mac OS to to his version of UNIX as part of that deal. If that deal had not been done, Mac OS would probably still be a proprietary OS, though of course we will never know for sure.

              10

              • #
                Lance

                well, the division between original mac and macOS/Unix/Linux is 2007. That was 13 yrs ago.

                64 bit software on mac happened in 2005-2007.

                Windows has the WSL on Win10. Linux kernel is built in.
                https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/27/21271655/microsoft-windows-10-may-2020-update-download-available

                Eventually, Win is moving towards some form of Linux/Unix.

                Mac, for whatever reasons, is now 64 bit, Unix 03 compliant based since mac os x 10.5.

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              • #
                RicDre

                “well, the division between original mac and macOS/Unix/Linux is 2007. That was 13 yrs ago.”

                True, but the original Mac OS was written in 1984 which means the proprietary Mac OS was around for 23 years.

                “Eventually, Win is moving towards some form of Linux/Unix.”

                Maybe, but I do agree that Microsoft will continue to improve and enhance its LINUX subsystem within Windows.

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            • #
              tom0mason

              A basic difference between Linux and Unix
              [from https://medium.com/@punitkmr/similarities-and-differences-between-unix-and-linux-851338179b43 ]

              Basically Linux is an engine(Just a kernel/part of car).
              Unix is a Car. (Means Entire operating system).

              The main difference between Windows and Linux/Unix –

              Windows — Some things are treated as ‘memory’ blocks, some are treated as ‘files’, some are a mix of both.

              Linux/Unix — EVERYTHING is a file!

              10

              • #
                RicDre

                A great deal of Windows NT’s design was done by Dave Cutler who is well known for his previous great work on VMS at DEC. Windows NT (and subsequent versions of Windows) have their roots in VMS, not UNIX.

                Dave Cutler was not a big fan of UNIX’s I/O process which he once described as “Get a byte, get a byte, get a byte byte byte” (to the tune of the finale of Rossini’s William Tell Overture).

                One interesting comment I read comparing VMS and UNIX is “VMS is in many ways the antithesis of UNIX, with its special file formats and dedicated utilities in contrast to the UNIX universal stream of bytes and composable tools model.”

                10

              • #
                PeterS

                I was an OpenVMS administrator and programmer as well as a Unix one (Ultrix, SunOs, SV, SGI, etc.). I know well the differences, pros and cons of each one. At the time they were all way better than Windows for serious work, from a security, scalability, availability and networking points of view. More recently I learned about HP NonStop as used in some stock exchanges. ASX used OpenVMS when I did some work there, not sure if they still do. The point is all operating systems have their place. Not one single OS can do everything in any environment. My favourite OS is still OpenVMS, from a nostalgic point of view, it’s rock solid stability and security, and it’s cluster technology. One major drawback though is it’s filesystem. It’s laden with a lot of overhead to provide some fancy features.

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          • #
            Another Ian

            Lance

            By what I read there is a schism in the Linux camp over “System D” or “Not System D”.

            Noted also that the likes of Microsoft. IBM etc now have seats in Linux government.

            10

      • #
        yarpos

        The world worst operating system has powered much of the worlds industry and commerce for the last say 30 years at least. I’m not a fan (we are 50/50 W10 and Linux Mint at casa yarpos) but the reality is that by any measure its a Windows world especially at the desktop.

        30

      • #

        Great sub-thread on OS protocols.
        Very useful technical info.
        Thanks.

        00

    • #
      tom0mason

      Bill Gates vaccine — the blue screen of death for humans?

      Bill Gates injectable micro chip identifiers (aka “digital certificates” and then ID2020 – see https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/conspiracy/are-the-planning-id2020-as-mandatory-implants-for-all-as-the-solution-to-the-crisis/ )– the blue screen of death for privacy?

      Bill Gates blockchain banking (see https://bitsonline.com/bill-gates-blockchain-payments-poor/ ) — the blue screen of death for personal wealth, small enterprise, and upward mobility?

      30

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  • #
    David Maddison

    The death rates might even be lower if it was used with zinc. Many people who are vulnerable are also deficient in zinc.

    The war against HCQ is because Trump’s experts suggested it and its adoption would be seen as a success for Trump. (Specifically it was the Zelenko protocol that was suggested.)

    The Left are prepared to kill unlimited numbers of people just to prove “orange man bad”.

    If this treatment is ever approved in places where it is now banned such as Australia, I demand that no Leftist uses it.

    I’m sick of the Left killing people such as they did under Nazism, Communism, with banning DDT (killing 50 million by malaria), killing people through energy poverty and C-19 today, etc..

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    • #
      Peter C

      What about the Non Actions of our federal health minister? Should he be blamed for his failure to even ask his own health department some obvious questions about the hydroxychlororquine ban and the failure of several Australian trials to even get to the recruitment stage before they gave it all up?

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      • #
        David Maddison

        I wrote to him over two weeks ago and I haven’t even received an acknowledgement of my letter.

        Meanwhile people are dying due to his and his department’s inaction and/or incompetence.

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          Peter C

          The minister is not known for his courage in any of his previous portfolios. Same now in health.
          I am trying to stir up my local liberal party to debate his performance.

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        Analitik

        Ah yes, Greg Hunt. Energy and Environment Minister under Malcolm Turncoat …

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      PeterS

      Trump haters just don’t get it. They are hurting the people in so many ways. As another example of that, Trump has just used his executive powers to provide tax and unemployment relief the Democrats refused to allow. The left would go as far as let millions of Americans die in a deep economic depression, just to get rid of Trump. If that’s not a sign the left are evil then nothing is.

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      ian hilliar

      And now Comrade Dan is killing them in Victoria, but it is ” all for the public good”

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  • #
    Another Ian

    O/T but “from the sublime to the ridiculous”

    “Las Vegas. Nevada governor banned church services but casinos can operate at 50% capacity. So we are praying in a casino”

    https://twitter.com/The_Kyle_Mann/status/1291581169444646913

    Via SDA

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    yarpos

    Very intersting, although I looked down the widespread early HCQ list and did wonder how many of those countries would be able to competently and transparently report their Covid death rates. I only felt comfortable with 3 or 4 of them but thats just me. Still there they are even if you did discard the rest.

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  • #
    nb

    Power through a stifling over-care.

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  • #
    Steve of Cornubia

    I see that, according to this research, India is listed as one of those nations where the use of HCQ has significantly mitigated Covid deaths.

    And yet … ‘Their ABC’ has today run an article about India’s surprisingly good performance during the pandemic “in spite of having a poor health care system” and theorising that there are many reasons for their success – without mentioning their use of HCQ even once:

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-08/indias-biggest-slum-declares-victory-over-coronavirus/12518818

    Other commenters above are saying that heads will roll and careers will be destroyed by this scandal, but I am less optimistic. Once again, the Left’s almost complete control of the legal system, the WHO, the UN, the public service, the internet and the media will result in those responsible, not just escaping the consequences of appalling actions, but walking away even richer as a consequence.

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    • #
      Steve of Cornubia

      I forgot to add that, if we are to accept that the demonisation of HCQ is due to interference by Big Pharma, why would leftist media organisations like the ABC in Oz and the BBC in the UK, also fight against it? You wouldn’t expect Leftists to get into bed with big business, – unless there is temporarily a ‘common cause’. The enemy of my enemy, etc.

      In my mind, this can only be because HCQ was supported by Trump and therefore the Left must prevent its adoption, especially in an election year.

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      • #
        Kalm Keith

        Steve,

        Just because big pharma is “big business” it doesn’t mean that they aren’t helping with funds being placed strategically.
        Money talks all languages.

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        • #

          It is both Big Pharma and anti-Trump. (I assumed the anti-Trump aspect was so obvious it didn’t need saying).

          Big Pharma buys advertising, and pays for academic studies, conferences, conventions and sends soft money in so many ways.

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    philf

    There’s HCQ plus zinc plus Zpak. Also vitamin C, vitamin D.

    Now budesonide (if covid19 is further along)
    https://forbiddenknowledgetv.net/dr-richard-bartlett-budesonide-cured-100-of-my-patients/

    Only the medical establishments have kept Covid19 in play (for political reasons). They and the MSM are murderers of gigantic proportions.

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      David Maddison

      In Australia, most in the medical profession are either too brainwashed or too terrified to speak out.

      My own doctor and most of my medical doctor friends would use it for treatment of themselves or take it for prophylaxis (when they have supplies, usually left over as it’s impossible to get in Victoriastan for other than its conventional uses and can only be prescribed by specialists).

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      • #
        RexAlan

        I think Ivermectin holds great promise.

        “The Centre for Digestive Diseases says the medication is an effective treatment when used in conjunction with zinc and antibiotics and is advocating for the ‘triple therapy’ to be made available in aged care homes and for frontline workers”.

        Professor Thomas Borody.

        https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6179248528001

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        • #

          I do too. I have posted on Ivermectin several times, and have draft posts on budesonide, BCG, melatonin and others.

          The wonderful thing about this pandemic is the large suite of anti-virals that most of us did not realize were so effective. For years — have we been missing out on treatments for the Flu, metapnumovirus, parainfluenza, ortho… etc etc.

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        • #
          Orson

          Prof Thomas Borody, MD, Ivermectin interview story at Sky News posted to YouTube

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6A6RFDprIs

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    • #
      Environment Skeptic

      ..
      From: https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200707/Asthma-inhalers-being-trialed-for-treatment-of-COVID-19.aspx
      “Researchers from Queensland University of Technology and Oxford University are working in collaboration to begin human clinical trials of inhaled corticosteroids, commonly used for asthma patients, on patients with COVID-19.”

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      John PAK

      If I had an inflammatory respiratory disease eg. SARS CoV, I’d take an anti-inflammatory such as Pulmicort (budesomide) via some form of inhalation. That way I’d be targeting the relevant part of my body without saturating my entire body with a corticosteroid. I wonder at the intelligence of the average doctor. Surely they know about these old and well tried drugs. Even the 4 Drs who are my family or friends seem a bit vague about what I’d call basic medicine.

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    David Maddison

    In extreme Nanny States such as Australia where hydroxychloroquine is not permitted to be used for early stage C-19 infection (or at all in Victoriastan), despite the generous donation to the Australian people of 32 million doses by Clive Palmer, Dr Zelenko suggests quercetin as an alternative zinc ionophore to HCQ which is also non-prescription .

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  • #
    Graeme P.

    Why is the West banning this drug?

    Because Trump said it may help. The best thing the President can do now is to say it’s dangerous and doesn’t help. Democrats and the media will naturally promote the use of the drug.

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      OriginalSteve

      “Why is the West banning this drug?”

      Because the globalists are desperately trying to shove everyone down the “vaccine only ” solution route.

      If you read the globalist “play book” on the wef.ch web site and look at the “Covid response” you only see vaccines.

      Vaccines function as a social control grid. HCQ shatters the control grid – that is why they desperately dont want it.

      If the vaccine control paradigm is broken by HCQ, all of a sudden people ( rightly ) ask why all these vaccines if we dont need them.

      I also suspect the globalists will use the dodgy RNA covid vaccine as a “no vaccine = no normal life for you” control gate, using a smart phone app to control peoples lives.

      Its how they work. I’ve been studying them for 20 years.

      Its also why you see police being so rough with anti-maskers/pro-freedom protesters – they threaten the covid control paradigm,

      The non-sensical draconin covid response in NWO crash test dummy Victoria – its primary function is to get people so worn out & stressed they will accept any vaccine to just have a normal life and get their economy back.

      This is the real game….the trick is to bust the control grid wide open with something that works, like HCQ, but the public need to demand it.

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      • #
        Geoff Sherrington

        OS,
        FWIW, my take on police attitudes in Vic involves a new Chief Cop who said he was going to be tougher on crime, mixed with some examples where too much police caution early in a developing scene became multiple deaths (like that Bourke Street car murderer) plus the possibility that many ordinary police on the streets are afraid to catch Covid and so are predisposed to break up illegal gatherings that can spread the virus. Are you doing too a long bow to relate police acts to a global property/anti vacc fight?
        Geoff S

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    TedM

    Two sessions on “The hydroxychloroquine controversy” 0n Steve Bannon’s “war room pandemic” in 16 and 17 hrs time. You can listen live or listen to the podcast later.

    There will almost certainly be interviews with Dr Zelenko and Dr Risch, and probably some of the Drs. from “American frontline doctors”.

    https://warroom.org/livestream/

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    • #
      TedM

      Correction to the time of live stream. It is 9-11pm WST. look at the podcasts tomorrow if you wish to watch it.

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  • #
    7887

    This is even better
    https://youtu.be/nzqnAIfEbv4
    Ivermectin used all around the world.
    Why have we not heard of it.

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    David Maddison

    Zinc supplementation is almost always ignored in discussions of HCQ.

    I think partly it’s the fault of the medical profession for claiming for decades that supplements are useless unless you are malnourished which is almost never the case in civilised countries.

    And yet zinc is demonstrably important. And guess which groups are most susceptible to COVID-19? Those that are zinc deficient!

    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2020.01712/full

    In patients with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), bronchial asthma, cardiovascular diseases, autoimmune diseases, kidney diseases, dialysis, obesity, diabetes, cancer, atherosclerosis, liver cirrhosis, immunosuppression, and known liver damage low serum zinc levels are regularly observed (4, 117)

    For example 57.5% elderly and nursing home residents in the U.S., for which high incidence of respiratory tract infections is described, showed significantly decreased zinc intake levels and are considered subjects with high risk regarding COVID-19 (120).

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    • #
      Another Ian

      In previous eras a lot of drinking water came from galvanized iron tanks. Which were also soldered.

      If there was sufficient lead from the solder to get it banned was there also a bonus from the zinc of the galvanizing?

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      • #
        David Maddison

        I’m sure there’s something said about it in the 1000 page plus document “Australian Drinking Water Guidelines”.

        https://www.nhmrc.gov.au/about-us/publications/australian-drinking-water-guidelines

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      • #
        Geoff Sherrington

        A. Ian,
        There are no cases of lead Pb from solder in water tanks harming people that have ever crossed my desk. My work got me involved in the Pb topic so we consulted one of the world authorities at the time, Dr Allen Christophers, who happily lived at Brighton. Allen was concerned with high doses like those from children eating window putty painted with Pb paints. He also researched trace doses but could not find a causal connection in children. High doses cause a distinctive set of medical conditions not seen with low doses. Allen considered that work by others like Needleman in the USA was hobby-horse stuff to get a world reputation by getting lead banned from common use.
        The hypothesis that traces of lead ingested by youngsters lowered IQ has never been properly established. It is rather like the push of the false equivalence of CO 2 in the air and runaway global warming. Both cause social and economic upheaval by brute force gullibility to overcome the lack of definitive scientific demonstration of proof.
        Geoff S

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          Kalm Keith

          And of course, the ultimate proof was that the Romans never had any trouble with their lead based water distribution system.

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    RickWill

    I know that in the early stage there were real concerns that prescribing HCQ for everyone would create a shortage. This would impact on those people who need regular doses for various conditions.

    HCQ is not a “cure”. But all studies like this one show that taking it early can reduce the risk of death to a low level. But if you have a strategy to eliminate the virus by self-quarantine then prescribing HCQ widely is an admission of failure. If people believe they are bulletproof then they are less inclined to self-quarantine. This is clearly a dilemma that health officials face.

    The evidence clearly shows that eliminating the virus in a few weeks is readily achievable given a willing and sensible population. Stating that HCQ is a “cure” is inaccurate at best and in reality a lie. It also undermines what is clearly the sensible strategy; best demonstrated by Taiwan.

    I have doubts that POTUS Trump would have been prescribed HCQ if there was any risk to his health. Clearly his minders thought it was worthwhile taking it and they probably used it themselves.

    My only surprise in all this is that the link to this study is still available. I guess anyone can do the same analysis so not much point in censoring the site. I think there are enough in the media following this blog to get it out if they choose – Craig Kelly comers to mind.

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      RickWill

      This video from the Lupus Foundation discusses the initial shortages of HCQ:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfCPhNnNm9U

      The Lupus Foundation of America is leading efforts to tackle the shortage of hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil) and chloroquine (Aralen) that developed after reports these drugs might be effective for treating people seriously ill with COVID-19. Pat Wildman, Lupus Foundation of America Vice President for Advocacy & Government Relations, gives a status report on the Foundation’s actions to date to ensure a supply of these drugs for people with lupus.

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      RickWill

      One of the issues for Victorians in winter is getting adequate exposure to sunlight. Retrospective studies show that the low level of Vitamin D is a significant risk factor. The level can be assured by easily purchased supplement. But Vitamin D is not a cure; maybe more effective than HCQ though.

      Level of Vitamin D could be a factor in the above charts. As the boreal winter sets in we may learn more about Vitamin D.

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      • #

        RickWill, indeed, and the advantages of Vit D have been known for years, which shows that this is not just about Trump but long before he was even a candidate there was suppression of cheap natural alternatives.

        Why aren’t we testing Australians every winter? The cost savings to medicare would likely means the testing paid for itself in days through avoided cancer, asthma, auto immune disease, mental health.

        The other factor in the suppression of Vit D is that no one wants to admit that twenty years of sunscreen dogma may have been harmful.

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          Another Ian

          “no one wants to admit that twenty years of sunscreen dogma may have been harmful.”

          The “Smokey Bear” of health?

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      David Maddison

      Trump has secured additional HCQ from India who makes 70% of the world supply.

      In Australia, Clive Palmer donated to the Australian people 32 million doses which are rotting in a Government warehouse, not allowed to be used.

      Australia should be negotiating with India to secure even more supplies if necessary but that would only be required if HCQ is allowed to be used here.

      And if there is more demand, the miracle of free enterprise is that India will just produce more.

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        Lance

        Israel donated 10 million HCQ tablets to the US. India donated some 30 Million tablets and some 20,000 lbs (10,000 kg) of the base material to the US, from Jan-Mar 2020.

        HCQ has some demonstrable positive effects early on. Near 90%+ survival rate in the first week or so.

        Remdesivir has some 30% advantage at the later stages, after one is on life support/ventilation.

        The difference is USD 20 up front, or USD 3000 at the end. I’d rather catch things up front, add some Ivermectin, toss in a bit of quercetin, swill down some zinc, and have a bit of whiskey on the side.

        If this weren’t an Election year in the US, none of this malarkey would have surfaced.
        Shame on all those rolling political dice when other’s lives are at stake.

        Even Dr. Fauci and Bill Gates admit that NO vaccine will provide more than 50% to 80% protection.

        Treatment now, or vaccine someday if ever. I’d roll my dice on the Now.

        In deference to the Lupus and RA market for HCQ, I’ll take the Quercetin Dihydrate + Zinc + B complex + D3, and let everyone else figure out their risk tolerance. The virus is “in the wild” now, so long term, you’d better have a plan because the genie is out of the bottle. Locking down national/world economies isn’t rational if there will never be a 100% cure. You simply have to treat it when and how you can. After that, have a good Gin and Tonic, and move on.

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        TedM

        Unfortunately it appears that Australia’s health authority believes it is more important to let people die than to make HCQ available. Ivermectin has also been rejected as unproven and requiring randomnised double blind studies. Nero playing the fiddle.

        One good bit of news is that the “Association of American Physicians and Surgeons” is suing their FDA for stopping physicians providing HCQ to their covid-19 patients. How I hope they win.

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      David Maddison

      I don’t think anyone is calling HCQ a cure. It’s a treatment for early stage infection of COVID-19, especially when used with zinc plus azi as per Zelenko.

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        RickWill

        I don’t think anyone is calling HCQ a cure.

        There was a censored video where a Houston GP stated very clearly there was a “cure”. This is her words:

        “This virus has a cure. It is called hydroxychloroquine, zinc, and Zithromax,” Immanuel said. “I know you people want to talk about a mask. Hello? You don’t need [a] mask. There is a cure.”

        She is WRONG. She was censored. Using language loosely was her downfall.

        All the evidence shows that taking HCQ before contracting the virus or in the early stages lowers the risk of death. It does not take the risk to anything like zero as implied by a cure: to make someone with an illness healthy again

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      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      HCQ may not be a cure alone, but I reckon that it is when used in combination with zinc. To say it’s a “lie” to call it a cure, may be a shorthand, but is incorrect.
      Cheers
      Dave B

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        RickWill

        A properly trained clinician would never claim a “cure” without clinical trials. To claim a cure based on the results of 300+ cases is hardly solid evidence. Without any medication, the data shows that you could expect 297 to cure themselves. Did she get lucky with the three others; does she actually know the final outcome; are there any lingering issue so only partially “cured”.

        A well trained clinician sticks with facts not hyperbole. Hyperbole is the domain of so-called scientists studying the weather.

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          David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

          By “She”, do you mean Dr Stella Emmanuel, who’s speech at the America’s Frontline Doctors Summit went viral, before being zapped? She certainly mentioned the number 300, in her practice. But she wasn’t alone. Dr Zelenko has treated over 700 in his practice, and several other doctors spoke of their success at the same summit. And the basic message of this post is of widespread success.
          Personally, I’ll accept as a cure something which stops the virus from replicating, quickly, and keeps people out of hospital, out of ICU, and even out of coffins, in spite of medical professionals’ pedantry.
          And I like it even more when it’s inexpensive and can save our economy.
          It’s a cure, for sure.

          The full set of presentations at the summit is now available at:
          https://www.bitchute.com/channel/ajd5q6G31D7C/

          Cheers
          Dave B

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            David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

            Hey mods,
            Why is my comment at 21.5.1.1, posted at 12:48, in moderation? I don’t understand?
            Cheers
            Dave B

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        • #

          Rick, I agree. The casual use of the word “cure” diminishes most medical arguments.

          Accurate language is so important. I very much liked the frontline doctors argument but wished they had been more careful and less hyperbolic.

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            David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

            G’day Jo,
            I’ll argue for the valid use of the word “cure” by the speakers at the AFD Summit, as a provocative attention getter and a reasonable approximation, if not completely accurate, descriptor for the effects of the full implementation (early application, hcq, zinc, AZT, and vitamin D) of the Zelenko protocol.
            Especially as opposed to the sit-on-their-hands and do nothing approach otherwise practised.
            It does after all, “kill” the virus (“stop it from replicating” in the official jargon), and do so completely within a few days if I understand it correctly.
            What else does a cure do?
            The word’s use certainly got attention. And forced the nasties into precipitate action – which was great advertising for hcq.
            Cheers
            Dave B

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            John PAK

            Yes, language matters but the message is what is important with this disease. People seem to be offended by slight errors in verbal delivery.
            I don’t really care so long as they make a point.
            I’d like to know what is going on in Taiwan. Worldometer claims only 7 deaths in a nation of 23 million where-as we (Au) have had 278 with a similar population.
            One of the casualties of this disease seems to be Investigative Journalism.

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          TedM

          Dr Zelenko: First study 450 “HIGH RISK” Patients. 84% reduction in hospital admissions, 90% reduction in deaths. Next study 400 “HIGH RISK” patients: no deaths.

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    John F. Hultquist

    Thanks for the post, Jo.

    As far as Vitamin D goes, . . .

    All the Panic2020 news and postings alerted me to the high probability that I was deficient of Vitamin D.
    I looked at the last couple of years of medical tests. None for Vitamin D. So I asked the person in the medical garb. No, we don’t test because most insurance doesn’t pay for it.
    Yet, this seems to be an important thing. I live at 47° N. Latitude, stay covered in both high sun season and low sun season.
    I told the medico I was starting to take 2,400 units of D and a multi-tablet with Zink, plus all the rest in that tablet. She said that’s fine but not to take more without getting a test. I’d have to pay, have no idea of the cost, and that’s the situation.
    If I get any indication of illness we’ll have a serious consultation about Hydroxychloroquine and a couple of other compounds. (Ivermectin ? We use if for the horses!)

    Panic2020 just gets curiouser and curiouser.

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      RickWill

      Blood tests in Australia that I have had over the years provide a reading for level of Vitamin D. About 30% of Australians are deficient:
      https://www.osteoporosis.org.au/vitamin-d

      Years ago when I was mostly in office or aeroplanes I had borderline levels of Vitamin D so took a supplement. Once retired I was able to get plenty of time in the sun at 37 degree latitude. Winter can be challenging though as it requires making use of every sunny day. In June we average less than 2 hours of full sunshine a day but that can be three days with little to no sun and one day with full sunshine.

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        William Astley

        Hi RickWill. Your comments are factually not correct. I am curious how you got to your beliefs. Do you have any sources? I would be interested in comments from others also. Same questions.

        The portion of the Aussie general population that is def. Vit. D is greater than you believe.

        And you do not know what Vit. D does in your body. Vit. D is used by every cell type in our body to make chemical modules or each different cell type, for each cell, that produce specialized chemicals to fight virus, to enable repairs to occur, to change a woman’s body in preparation for the delivery of a baby, to protect the colon, stomach, prostate, and breast cells from getting cancer, and so on.

        What do you think the optimum Vit. D level should be for the population? What evidence did you use to reach your conclusion?

        36% of the Australian population, 40% of the Canadian population in the winter and 25% in the summer, 82% of the US black population, 68% of the US Hispanic population, and 42% of the US general population …

        are all deficient in Vitamin D…. which is defined in all of the above population studies, as a Blood serum of active Vit. D that is, less than 20 ng/ml.

        Regardless of sex or age it has been shown that there is a 19 times greater chance of dying from covid for people that have a blood serum level of Vit. D that is less than 20 ng/ml as compared to those people who have a blood serum level of Vit. D that is greater than 30 ng/ml.

        What does ‘Vitamin’ D do in our bodies? (See the links below from two the lead Vit. D researchers in the world which summarizes all of the research on this issue. How Vit. D deficient is the population? What is the cost of the Vit. D deficiency?)

        Your cells each have a copy of the your DNA genome that which is the blueprint to make you.

        Why?

        The active Vit. D enables each of our different cell types, stomach, prostate, breast, lung, throat, liver, heart, kidney, and so on …. … in your body to access the copy of you genome DNA that each cell carries…

        To make the specialized chemical modules, that produce the specialized chemicals which evolution/our bodies developed to protect the cell type in question from

        …. From viruses, to defend against cancer, to protect against getting type 1 and 2 diabetes.

        The body function differently at a microbilogical way… at a cellular level the stomach cells, the colon cells, the liver cells and so on….

        Are changed, improved with evolution developed chemical modules. The chemical modules are actived by each cell type when required by stimulus.

        When the body is deficient in Vitamin D, only a portion of our cell types get the evolutionary, chemical modules that protect that cell type (Stomach and colon, cells for example from getting stomach cancer), from getting cancer.

        This explains why people that have a active Vit. D level that is greater than 60 ng/ml have a greater than 80% less chance of getting stomach and colon cancer. The ‘high’ level of Vitamin D ensures the majority of the colon and stomach cells have the chemical modules that stop cancer from developing.
        Prevalence and correlates of vitamin D deficiency in US adults.
        https://tahomaclinic.com/Private/Articles4/WellMan/Forrest%202011%20-%20Prevalence%20and%20correlates%20of%20vitamin%20D%20deficiency%20in%20US%20adults.pdf

        This is a 45 minute lecture from the lead Vit. D researcher in the world.

        As he notes in the lecture, sufficient research has been done to determine the population’s optimum Vit. D level.

        It is time now to tell the public and correct the population’s deficiency.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrU1yrmNIqc

        Results of a Prostate Cancer/Vitamin D Trial: Effectiveness Safety Recommendations

        Bruce H Hollis

        https://emerginnova.com/patterns-of-covid19-mortality-and-vitamin-d-an-indonesian-study/

        Patterns of COVID-19 Mortality and Vitamin D: An Indonesian Study

        Vitamin D Insufficient Patients 12.55 times more likely to die, blood serum 25(OH)D level from 21 to 29 ng/ml

        Vitamin D Deficient Patients 19.12 times more likely to die, Vitamin D blood serum level less than 20 ng/ml

        This is another lecture from a Vit. D senior Vit. D researcher which explains what Vit. D does in our bodies.

        Vitamin D Sunshine Optimal Health: Putting it all Together

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9SNfrE7P1s

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    Ross

    While I agree with the basis of what you say at the end Zigmaster, I think the President Trump endorsement and their use of it to demonise HQC is a convenient distraction for big Pharma and Gates. The demonisation of HQC would have happened if President Trump had said nothing at all.
    There are a lot of people who should be charged over what has occurred, but it will never happen.

    Former NZ PM –Helen Clarke is in charge of a review of WHO’s action with Covid. You can guarantee the report will be the biggest white wash we have seen. But Clarke is no fool so it will be done in a very clever manner.

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    Andrew McRae

    cold Russia is in the low death camp

    Phrasing, Jo! :D
    Might wanna chuck a pluralist ‘S’ in there for clarification.

    The preprint of the retrospective study by Zelenko and Scholz was published 28 days after the FDA rescinded the approval of HCQ for COVID19. The FDA noted at the time “FDA approved products may be prescribed by physicians for off-label uses if they determine it is appropriate for treating their patients, including during COVID.” So HCQ was not banned generally in the USA, and it wasn’t even banned there for COVID19 specifically, it was just the removal of an approval because the rationale they had given for that approval had been questioned. In the land of the free the patients are still treated by doctors, not by the FDA. So Zelenko could have continued using HCQ after the ban-that-was-not-really-a-ban.

    Maybe he was moved to compile and publish some patient outcome data because the FDA’s unapproval was sending the wrong message domestically. Certainly it’s weird how the USA doesn’t take #TrumpPills but 11 other countries have. Zelenko’s report was written 13 Jul 2020 and a small non-randomized trial in France had positive results published back in March. Yet in the latest issue of “COVID-19 Australia: Epidemiology Report 21″ for the fortnightly reporting period ending 19 July 2020, still the only reference to any trial of HCQ efficacy is a negative study from Shanghai way back in April. Seems our country’s COVID19 quarantine is so stringent it is not only stopping SARS-Cov-2 from crossing our border but it is also keeping medical knowledge of chloroquine from getting in. I conclude that Australia is girt by ‘C’ – a giant ring of chloroquine facts waiting for political permission to exit embargo.

    There are 6 controlled trials of HCQ and Zinc registered at the USA NIH. The first one to finish actually completed last week and has a result, but this result is currently stuck in some sort of “quality control review” and has not been published yet. Sounds like USA is girt by ‘C’ too.

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      Steve of Cornubia

      “So Zelenko could have continued using HCQ after the ban-that-was-not-really-a-ban.”

      Sure, except that Zelenko was driven out of his practice following his public support for HCQ.

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        Andrew McRae

        Steve, thanks for that tidbit, I had no idea. Just reading now that he was driven out of his home town, not just his practice. More of the “cancel culture” at work by the sounds of it.
        One might think that medical doctors would be beyond the reach of political harassment, but these days an Amazon pygmy could blowdart the wrong sloth by mistake and get cancelled on Twitter.

        It’s bad enough when activism costs targets their freedom of speech, but do these activists ever think of the potential cost in lives if their initial opinion turned out to be mistaken? When the activism has a chilling effect on the only type of research that could establish the fact of the matter, it is counter-productive.

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      John F. Hultquist

      Andrew,
      I see what you saw there: death camp +cold
      I suspect one has to be of a certain age.

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    The Quiet Farmer

    Given the number of studies Jo has access to, showing the banning of HQC is leading to higher death rates, ( I. know that is only implied), should we be asking Maurice Blackburn to initiate a class action against state CMO’s and the regulatory body (TGA??) who have banned HQC? Trust the science and all that! It would definitely seem Australians are being killed by Govt inaction with regards to bans in QLD and Victoria, I don’t know about other states but if TGA has banned it then I guess it will be nation in consequence.
    Does anyone know if Ivermectin and choldine( SIC) is being proscribed in Australia?

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      The Quiet Farmer

      national in consequence that should be.

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      Serp

      It’s all of a piece with the Australian government’s consistently weak-minded sheltering from controversy on just about everything by citing selected views of spurious international authorities; IPCC said get rid of coal, WHO said Zelenko protocol bad.

      Be grateful we escaped being burdened with the hidebound idiocy of a Shorten government…

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      TedM

      The Health Dept said it is unproven, even though it is. They didn’t say the last bit, I did.

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    Peter Fitzroy

    “South Korea has been recommending we use this drug since February 13th. Curiously, they were ruled out of this study, by the way, because they took up wearing masks too quickly, which the authors said reduced both infections and mortality.”

    no need to read further.

    Form a conclusion, cherry pick data to support your conclusion, except the data which does not fit your conclusion, and publish anonymously.

    The right will love this.

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      el gordo

      The Sky team have noted your concerns.

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      Konrad

      Sigh. Excluding South Korea actually favors the non-HCQ control group!

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        Peter Fitzroy

        how?
        I do not understand how masks would affect a drug which is administered in hospital
        Sigh away but all you are doing is making assertions

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        • #
          Konrad

          In the nations using HCQ, the majority of this drug is being used in an outpatient setting to prevent hospitalization. That which is used in hospitals is to provide prophylaxis for health workers.

          The majority of doctors that recommend HCQ do not recommend its use in patients that have become ill enough to need hospitalization.

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            Peter Fitzroy

            but you have to infected?
            and you have to be healthy enough to be an outpatient?
            So you should be comparing HCQ, with young healthy patients, not with those in the high risk groups

            It is as I said, propaganda

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              AndyG55

              Facts, peter.. very hard for you, aren’t they.

              If you want propaganda, go to the ABC of some other climate worrier sites.

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      AndyG55

      “I do not understand”

      We know that !

      “Form a conclusion, cherry pick data to support your conclusion, except the data which does not fit your conclusion”

      Ah…. the climate change farce, writ large. !

      Why aren’t you as “anti” the climate change farce as you are this study, Peter?

      You really are a confused little boy, aren’t you !!

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      TedM

      “Form a conclusion, cherry pick data to support your conclusion, except the data which does not fit your conclusion,” You should know.

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    John F. Hultquist

    In the USA, governors and other officials are undertaking unintended experiments with the multiple closures of schools and extracurricular activities.
    If they were chess players instead of tic-tac-toe they would be using every chemical and protocol available to bring the lockdowns to a halt.
    Because, if students adapt to learning via virtual means and other activities are kaput for a year, why not two years or forever? A few (or one) very good physics teacher, or history, or whatever, could be the guide for an entire nation. An full education can be had without the classrooms, lockers, and urinals. What’s not to love.
    Problems? Yes, but a very old system might be replaced with a newfangled thing.
    Countries are trying to do something similar with electric cars – why not education?
    {invoking Poe’s Law}

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    Konrad

    “If word ever gets out that the Politico-Academic-Corporate-Swamp buried useful drugs because they were unprofitable and out of patent, there will be hell to pay.”

    Word is getting out. The nations using it to reduce their case mortality ratio publicly refused to stop using it when the WHO seized on the fraudulent (now retracted) Lancet study. To stop the ongoing success of HCQ would involve telling Vladimir Putin to stop what he is doing. No current peer-reviewed studies indicate anyone experiencing success in this endeavor.

    And there will be hell to pay.

    Case mortality ratio is not the only issue. Long term health effects in survivors is also a factor. Theraputics like HCQ from the quinine group are the only ones proving a safe and economic way to reduce viral replication early in infection. Ivermectin doesn’t work for this (but does reduce case mortality), and Interferon B is impractically expensive. From the SARS-COV-1 autopsies, we know the damage a coronavirus targeting the ACE2 receptor can cause to organs like heart, lungs, kidneys and testis. From the live animal HCQ tests of that time we also know the importance of suppressing viral replication early in infection in reducing this damage.

    The swamp creatures that fought HCQ deployment and gambled on big pharma pulling the rabbit out of the hat have lost their bet. The nations using HCQ won’t change course after the Lancet scandal, and worse, herd immunity may occur at only 23%, far lower than expected. This means that even if big pharma were now to find their rabbit, for most anti-HCQ nations a miracle new theraputic or vaccine can never save as many lives or prevent as much long term organ damage than that those would have been saved and spared via early outpatient use of HCQ.

    And now, even if the bad actors wished to walk back their opposition to HCQ in light of the observational evidence from the nations achieving success with early use, they can’t. The TDS media will declare screaming jihad on any western politician or bureaucrat that dares voice even lukewarm support for HCQ between now and the November election in the US.

    Well, President Trump did warn them HCQ could be a “game changer” ;)

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    John Robertson

    Is it entirely logical to make these comparisons?
    Here in North America we have a very pampered group of old and unwell people.
    Because we have the wealth to treat them so well.
    Where else in this world are there such high populations of Aged persons with serious illness,kept alive by drugs and intensive care?
    If your old and ill people have already died,from those illnesses,they are not present to die from Covid.

    So are these comparisons of rich country poor country reasonable?

    The politics being played around hydroxychloroquine and zinc are disgusting,further destroying public confidence in Public Health Bureaucrats.
    Who have not covered themselves glory,in their handling of this So Called Pandemic.

    I was promised a plague,the ride of the Fourth Horseman..A Spanish Flu at least,the Black Plague or worse..”Millions will die”.

    Perhaps people who are so terrified of living,to the point they attempt to imprison everyone else,because of their fear..
    Just maybe they are too frightened to live?
    For now,our “Public Health Nitwits are stating they want to retain power,emergency powers,for the next 2 to 4 years.

    I note,not one of these fools has lost a days pay since they declared a health emergency and locked us down..

    Now masks are becoming compulsory in public places.
    So masks work?
    Great ..The Emergency is over.
    Get our masks on and back to living.

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    David Maddison

    Simple, cheap, safe treatments such as HCQ, ivermectin, budesonide and others are rejected by the Left and Deep State but they promote expensive but almost useless treatments such as Remdesivir, or they are waiting for a vaccine which may or may not be possible or even if it is possible it might be years away. I’d also be willing to bet the vaccine will be hugely expensive.

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    David Maddison

    Latest from Dennis Prager, “The Left is Weaponizing Medicine”.

    https://youtu.be/f5kqlzjByQI

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    Konrad

    Events are moving very rapidly now, and the bad actors appear to be trying to engineer an exit.

    Pressure is coming from multiple angles:
    In the US the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS)has brought legal action against the FDA for preventing the effective use of the federal HCQ stockpile.

    GooGooPlex, FaceBoot and the big tech Neo-Orwellians are struggling to find plausible excuses to censor sites like hcqtrial.com as they only provide dry analysis of publicly available national case mortality rates and national health policy metadata without opinion.

    The nations using HCQ have rebelled against the WHO after the WHO seized on that (now retracted) Lancet study.

    Two nations (Switzerland and Panama) that stopped using HCQ in response to the WHO directives have restarted use after their case mortality rate rapidly spiked.

    Now data coming in from Pakistan, Afghanistan and other areas indicates herd immunity may be achieved at a very low infection rate of 23%.

    And suddenly the BBC is pushing this:
    “Leading scientific researchers from the University of Oxford have warned that “the antiviral medication hydroxychloroquine is being ‘discarded prematurely’ and could still have benefit against COVID-19”, potentially saving tens of thousands of lives.”

    Oxford University Prof. Nick White(OBE)and his new trial to test HCQ prophylaxis in 40,000 frontline health workers is being pumped up. And those previously reported dangers of HCQ just seem to melt away:
    “They also added that early use of the drug is critical and that safety concerns surrounding hydroxychloroquine have been exaggerated”
    and
    “Concerns that they might cause heart arrhythmias are not supported by the evidence from the randomized trials in COVID-19, and in rheumatological conditions, hydroxychloroquine has actually been shown to reduce the risk of heart arrhythmias. There is very strong evidence that the doses being evaluated for prevention in the COPCOV study are safe,”

    Don’t anybody panic! Every rat for themselves!! Anti-trumpers dressed as women and children first!!!

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    This reads just like my experience with climate data. I analyse publicly available data and quote the sources. But does any Government Minister take any notice ? NO ?
    My analyses are completely ignored with no comment forthcoming.
    I suspect that we now live in a bureaucracy, not a democracy.
    The bureaucrats decide what suits them and our politicians and media blindly follow.

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    Rocket Rod

    Anyone heard of DRACO?
    The potential solution/cure back in 2011.
    But as per usual there’s no money to be made from curing people. Treating them for life however….

    In the meantime the harsh realities of this ridiculous pandemic are becoming painfully clear.
    Idiotic lockdowns, worthless homemade masks.

    Here’s the latest:

    https://nypost.com/2020/08/05/mask-mouth-is-a-seriously-stinky-side-effect-of-wearing-masks/

    Gee…really…who’d have thought that recirculating exhaled germs would be bad.

    The fallout of this 0.1% mortality rate virus is destroying the global economy and lives to a FAR greater extent than the virus itself but you won’t see that covered in your epidemiology textbook.

    The proper course of action should have been clear and implemented from day 1.
    Lockdown the elderly and vulnerable and let the virus run its course. This nonsense would have been over months ago.
    Now instead we end up in a far worse fate.

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    David Maddison

    Oh look, it’s after 4pm and Red Thumb Troll has finally got out of bed to fulfill his only function in life.

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    chrism

    NEJM has published a prospective randomised trial with no treatment effect
    with sizeable numbers …
    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2019014

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      Ross

      Most patients undertook treatments at least 10 days after symptoms onset and there was no zinc. So this trial fails the Zelenko protocol test.

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    • #

      ‘People, like Sydney Morning Herald writers are being willingly fooled by badly done studies which start the drug too late when patients are already in a severe state and use it without the cofactors — zinc and an antibiotic. Some studies are so ‘badly designed, it’s almost like they were not meant to succeed’

      If no zinc,
      Chuck it
      down the sink.

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      David Maddison

      If people are sick enough to go to hospital it’s probably too late for HCQ. Plus no zinc plus HCQ given at double the dose of Zelenko protocol in this study. Must be given immediately upon suspicion of infection.

      It is simply beyond belief that zinc is consistently left out of HCQ studies plus late administration. A clinical trial for the Z protocol is about as simple as it’s possible to imagine so why won’t anyone do it?

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        Serp

        I’d be more than happy to receive a contactless delivery of my share of Clive Palmer’s HCQ acquisition for the people of Australia; it past time to start agitating about this particularly for those of us mured up in Andrews’s dysfunctional state.

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    David Maddison

    India now has a huge surplus of HCQ tablets.

    There is no excuse not to use it in Australia due to any supposed shortage.

    https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/mumbai/huge-hcq-stock-with-manufacturers-after-spike-in-demand-sudden-dip-in-june-6515538/

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    UK-Weather Lass

    Sometimes in life there are people who do simple things so well you wonder why the species has ever even bothered with sophistication and complexity. As you suggest, Jo, this seems such a case, and you are right to point to the evidence in this paper that suggests HCQ has a potential to protect against certain viruses and should at least be on a doctor’s list of potential medicines of choice when it comes to treating or protecting patients.

    As to why HCQ has come under so much fire in the SARS-CoV-2 shenanigans then we all know that so much good money has already been thrown after bad in many different ways these days and so it is no surprise poor decision making is rife not just with climate change but also with pandemics.

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    Environment Skeptic

    May i recommend listening to TWiV (This week in virology)and the other ultra informative viral info found there. Some real nuggets for all. I will probably be looking to Vincent Racaniello for some time and i hope you, whoever you are, find the material found there as informative as i do.

    From: https://www.youtube.com/c/VincentRacaniello/videos
    This channel is all about viruses – videos of my lectures, podcasts, interviews, and more!:)

    For example, in this particular video (link below) at 6 minutes talks about the NextStrain website/group and the way new strains are identified, and of course, a lot more.
    “TWiEVO 56: Revising the drafts of coronavirus evolution”
    https://youtu.be/f5ypPsDBDVs?t=377

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    tom0mason

    Back in the days of SARS and MERS, viruses that are very, very similar to COVID-19, a paper called ‘Repurposing of Clinically Developed Drugs for Treatment of Middle East Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus Infection‘ was published.

    This paper found a library of 290 compounds was screened for antiviral activity against Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus (MERS-CoV) and severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV). After analysis 27 compounds with activity against both MERS-CoV and SARS-CoV were identified.

    In the work described here, we took the approach of screening a unique panel of both approved drugs and drugs with a well-defined cellular pathway for in vitro efficacy against MERS-CoV infection. This subset was identified previously as having antiviral activity against a series of other viruses (P. J. Glass, G. G. Olinger, Jr., and L. M. Johansen, unpublished data). A subset of drugs was also screened against SARS-CoV with the objective to identify drugs with broad activity against coronaviruses in preparedness for potential future emerging coronaviruses. We utilized this approach with the rationale that drugs that have been approved for use in humans would be more readily accepted as potential therapeutic options for MERS-CoV infection if shown to have antiviral activity.
    The screening of approved drugs to identify therapeutics for drug repurposing is a valid approach, and several approved drugs have been identified as having activity against many viral diseases (20–22). Here we found that 66 of the screened drugs were effective at inhibiting either MERS-CoV or SARS-CoV infection in vitro and that 27 of these compounds were effective against both MERS-CoV and SARS-CoV. These data demonstrate the efficiency of screening approved or clinically developed drugs for identification of potential therapeutic options for emerging viral diseases and also provide an expedited approach for supporting off-label use of approved therapeutics.

    So a lot of the basic groundwork was already done to some degree. Hydroxychloroquine was tested and was found to be effective.

    Also see ‘Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread
    An open access paper from 2005! Yes it is a cell based investigation (in vitro) but …

    Results

    We report, however, that chloroquine has strong antiviral effects on SARS-CoV infection of primate cells. These inhibitory effects are observed when the cells are treated with the drug either before or after exposure to the virus, suggesting both prophylactic and therapeutic advantage. In addition to the well-known functions of chloroquine such as elevations of endosomal pH, the drug appears to interfere with terminal glycosylation of the cellular receptor, angiotensin-converting enzyme 2. This may negatively influence the virus-receptor binding and abrogate the infection, with further ramifications by the elevation of vesicular pH, resulting in the inhibition of infection and spread of SARS CoV at clinically admissible concentrations.

    Conclusion

    Chloroquine is effective in preventing the spread of SARS CoV in cell culture. Favorable inhibition of virus spread was observed when the cells were either treated with chloroquine prior to or after SARS CoV infection. In addition, the indirect immunofluorescence assay described herein represents a simple and rapid method for screening SARS-CoV antiviral compounds.

    Later Chloroquine (even with its narrow safety margin) and the less difficult to administer hydroxychloroquine were used as drugs of choice to combat SARS and MERS.

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    Another Ian

    An interesting side light

    “Will Medical Malpractice Suits Run Rampant in 2021?”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2020/08/08/will-medical-malpractice-suits-run-rampant-in-2021/

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    OldOzzie

    A Democratic New York City Councilman says hydroxychloroquine saved his life after a near-fatal run-in with COVID-19 in March.

    Paul Vallone, who represents northeast Queens, took the drug along with a standard Z-pack — given for bacterial infections — and came back from the brink almost immediately.

    “I couldn’t breathe, very weak, couldn’t get out of bed. My doctor prescribed it. My pharmacy had it. Took it that day and within two to three days I was able to breathe,” Vallone told The Post. “Within a week I was back on my feet.”Though Vallone went public with his coronavirus diagnosis in an April 1 Twitter post, saying he was experiencing “mild symptoms,” his actual condition was considerably more severe. Vallone’s initial prognosis was particularly grim, as he also suffers from sarcoidosis, an auto-immune disease that attacks his lungs.

    “We were in panic mode when I went down because I didn’t have a lot of immune response,” he said. “I needed something to stay alive.”

    Hydroxychloroquine “worked for me.”

    Vallone’s brother Peter, a former City Councilman and a current civil court judge in Queens, also became a convert after his brother’s illness.

    “I guess all those doctors who are prescribing it are right. This drug is already on the market and the patent is up so it’s cheap. A new drug won’t be. So big money does not want this drug to be used. Always follow the money,” Peter Vallone said in a May 12 Facebook post, sharing a link to an NYU study touting the drug.

    “[It] saved my life,” Paul Vallone said in the comments.

    The drug has proven controversial. In June, the Food and Drug Administration declared hydroxychloroquine “unlikely to be effective in treating #COVID19.”

    Scientific studies about the drug’s efficacy have been mixed.

    Paul Vallone, however, remains grateful for the president’s advocacy.

    “At that time, there was only fear and panic, he offered hope in a possible treatment when there was none. With my sarcoidosis and then my COVID symptoms, It basically saved me. For that my family will always be thankful,“ he said.

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    TedM

    Some interviews from “Hydroxychloroquine controversy” on Steve Bannon’s war room.

    Dr Zev Zelenko
    https://youtu.be/0pHZM8l3x7E?t=2328

    Dr James Todaro
    https://youtu.be/jgu1MJ1RUes

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    TedM

    Some more interviews from “Hydroxychloroquine controversy” on Steve Bannon’s war room.

    Dr Elizabeth Lee Vliet
    https://youtu.be/jgu1MJ1RUes?t=2236
    https://youtu.be/jgu1MJ1RUes?t=2886

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    Climate Heretic

    Most people have said, “it’s all about the money”. The patent on hydroxychloroquine tablets has run out and only cost a few cents to make. While a vaccine costs, runs from $20 to hundreds of dollars. See this article on cost of vaccines. I’m sure someone could come up with better information on costs. https://www.businessinsider.com.au/how-much-will-coronavirus-vaccine-cost-2020-5?op=1&r=US&IR=T

    Well it’s all about the money, always has been and all ways will be.

    Regards
    Climate Heretic

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    OldOzzie

    How bad is covid really? (A Swedish doctor’s perspective)

    Ok, I want to preface this article by stating that it is entirely anecdotal and based on my experience working as a doctor in the emergency room of one of the big hospitals in Stockholm, Sweden, and of living as a citizen in Sweden. As many people know, Sweden is perhaps the country that has taken the most relaxed attitude of any towards the covid pandemic. Unlike other countries, Sweden never went in to complete lockdown. Non-essential businesses have remained open, people have continued to go to cafés and restaurants, children have remained in school, and very few people have bothered with face masks in public.

    Covid hit Stockholm like a storm in mid-March. One day I was seeing people with appendicitis and kidney stones, the usual things you see in the emergency room. The next day all those patients were gone and the only thing coming in to the hospital was covid. Practically everyone who was tested had covid, regardless of what the presenting symtom was. People came in with a nose bleed and they had covid. They came in with stomach pain and they had covid.

    Then, after a few months, all the covid patients disappeared. It is now four months since the start of the pandemic, and I haven’t seen a single covid patient in over a month. When I do test someone because they have a cough or a fever, the test invariably comes back negative. At the peak three months back, a hundred people were dying a day of covid in Sweden, a country with a population of ten million. We are now down to around five people dying per day in the whole country, and that number continues to drop. Since people generally die around three weeks after infection, that means virtually no-one is getting infected any more. If we assume around 0.5 percent of those infected die (which I think is very generous, more on that later), then that means that three weeks back 1,000 people were getting infected per day in the whole country, which works out to a daily risk per person of getting infected of 1 in 10,000, which is miniscule. And remember, the risk of dying is at the very most 1 in 200 if you actually do get infected. And that was three weeks ago. Basically, covid is in all practical senses over and done with in Sweden. After four months.

    In total covid has killed under 6,000 people in a country of ten million. A country with an annual death rate of around 100,000 people. Considering that 70% of those who have died of covid are over 80 years old, quite a few of those 6,000 would have died this year anyway. That makes covid a mere blip in terms of its effect on mortality.

    That is why it is nonsensical to compare covid to other major pandemics, like the 1918 pandemic that killed tens of millions of people. Covid will never even come close to those numbers. And yet many countries have shut down their entire economies, stopped children going to school, and made large portions of their population unemployed in order to deal with this disease.

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    Jo, whatever the usefulness, or otherwise, of hydroxchloroquine in treating covid18 (I have an open mind), I cannot believe you would post garbage like this, so called, HCQTrial.com.

    Read David Gorski’s rebuttal in sciencebasedmedicine.org

    “I HCQTrial.com: Astroturf and disinformation about hydroxychloroquine and COVID-19 on steroids
    Late last week, a “study” published on HCQTrial.com by an anonymous source claiming to be a group of PhD scientists went viral. It claimed that countries that used hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 had a 79% lower fatality rate than those who didn’t. It was horrible science and quickly debunked on Twitter by several epidemiologists. That didn’t stop it from going viral. Disinformation like this during a pandemic is one of the most dangerous challenges we face.

    David Gorski on August 10, 2020″

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      OK, so some guy says is horrible and you believe him.

      Can you explain in your own words or with short quotes why it’s “debunked” or “garbage” because you give no clue here whether you have even read either article?

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    Jo, I think this is one of the worse studies I have seen in this pandemic. And there are plenty.

    It’s not a randomized controlled trial by any stretch of the imagination. It’s not even a trial.

    It’s an retrospective observational ecological study prone to the ecological fallacy

    Confounders are not properly controlled for, particularly mask wearing and lockdowns.

    Its sample size is 36, not 2.7 billion.

    It is not known why only 36 countries were selected, and why these 36, which reeks of cherry picking.

    For example, France, where the prevalence of hydroxycholoquine is quite high, is omitted. Why? Other countries where the use is low or non existent and deaths per capita are quite low (Germany, Hong Kong, Australia, SE Asia) are omitted. Cherry picking on steroids.

    At any rate death’s per capita is the wrong end point metric to use as it is also dependent on the degree of prevalence, of the virus, within the countries. They should use one of the deaths per case metrics.

    It misreports the results of at least one study, if not several

    It doesn’t actually determine how much hydroxychloroquine was actually used in the “HCQ countries” or whether and how much it was used in some of the “non-HCQ countries”

    It does not define what it means by “early” versus “late” treatment.

    One can go on and on. It’s a shocker.

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      Read the site where the study is described. Then come back. OK?
      All the omissions have a reason,including mask use. Which I mentioned.
      I said this was the lowest grade of medical study and included all the caveats. Perhaps start by reading my post?

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