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Older children may spread Coronavirus even faster than adults do

New research shows that families with teenage children were three times more likely to get Covid  (odds of spread , 18%) than families with children under ten (5%). It appears that it’s more dangerous to live with teens than to live with adults (12%). It may be that teens are more likely to be asymptomatic which means people don’t realize they need to isolate from them.

The question of opening primary schools is potentially very different to high schools. Quite possibly puberty affects immune systems in ways that make teens effectively young adults.

Older Kids May Transmit COVID-19 as Much as Adults Do, New Evidence Shows

ScienceAlert

The results also showed up something unexpected, however. When index patients were categorised by age (0–9, 10–19, 20–29, 30–39, 40–49, 50–59, 60–69, 70–79, and >80 years), households with older children (index patients of 10–19 years) had the highest rate of infection spread to household contacts, with 18.6 percent of household contacts later showing the infection.

By contrast, young children (index patients 0–9 years of age) seemed to confer the least amount of spread of the virus, with just 5.3 percent of household contacts contracting the infection, which is less than half of the 11.8 percent average of all age groups (most of whom represent adults).

The study in South Korea involved nearly 60,000 contacts of 5,700 Covid patients. The spread was six times more likely at home than outside home with 12% of household contacts catching the disease at home, but only 2% of contacts outside home catching it. Since this is Korea it’s likely that people wore masks outside the home.  The researchers say “the role of masking within the home, especially if any family members are at high risk, needs to be studied.” For the record — schools were largely closed in South Korea during the test period. They remained open for essential workers children and were limited to very small class sizes. So the study doesn’t necessarily tell us much about the spread at school.

Donald Trump has at least conceded that schools in hot spots should delay reopening. The spread of coronavirus hurts his campaign and helps Democrats in so many ways. Getting on top of this spread should surely be a top priority.

UPDATE: Ponder how unusual this epidemiology is:

Traditionally the under fives are the wildly dominant spreaders of any disease. Hands on everything. This is very different from the flu. While the under fives are short, and therefore “breathing lower in altitude” we pick them up and carry them and face to face contact is common. Not so with 12 year olds.

Teenagers (older ones) are out and about and may pick up the disease through careless behaviour. But it may be that teens are larger asymptomatic shedders of virus, and for some reason the youngest children aren’t. Perhaps the youngest wipe this virus out fast with innate immunity and therefore are not big shedders for long. In any case, the implications are that primary schools could be reopened more easily — which will help parents go to work. But teens could learn from home. It might be the lowest impact way to slow the virus with the smallest impact.

This is different.

REFERENCE

Young June Park et al (2020)  Contact Tracing during Coronavirus Disease Outbreak, South Korea,  Emerging Infectious Diseases. Volume 26, Number 10—October 2020, https://doi.org/10.3201/eid2610.201315

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Rating: 6.5/10 (35 votes cast)
Older children may spread Coronavirus even faster than adults do, 6.5 out of 10 based on 35 ratings

52 comments to Older children may spread Coronavirus even faster than adults do

  • #
    MrGrimNasty

    Going by the UK, that age group was the most likely to ignore all restrictions and carry on socializing nearly normally. Anyway, yet again:-

    https://judithcurry.com/2020/07/27/why-herd-immunity-to-covid-19-is-reached-much-earlier-than-thought-update/

    100

    • #
      Gerry, England

      Michael Gove’s wife said that with her experience of a teenage daughter they already lived in virtual self-isolation anyway.

      00

  • #
    Kalm Keith

    I admire South Korea from a distance without knowing it well.

    One thing I can extrapolate from other experience is that the people of that nation have probably discovered McChickenLicken and other BurgerFast foods. The fact that they have been at it for a while is attested to by the fact that they now have the full replication of U.S. fast food outlets in other Asian countries.

    Why is this important?

    It seems that the “data” has not been adjusted for the extra 10 years of exposure to diabetes inducing lifestyle of the new South Korea and that may be significant.

    Older children have older parents, some of whom may have co-morbidities known to react with CV19.

    Data, is to be treated with caution, and speaking to the wider problem of CV19 “data” I am very concerned about “The Data” where even data from the one country may be a mish mash of “stuff” from numerous sources.

    Then we can go to other countries and other languages, assemble the lot, and call it Data.

    Yeah!

    91

  • #
    Yonniestone

    I’d like to point out that living with a teenager is a serious risk to your health both physically and mentally.

    140

    • #
      GD

      I realised that when I was a teenager. I moved out of my parents’ home as soon as I finished school.

      Our relationship improved immensely thereafter.

      30

  • #
    Peter C

    Donald Trump has at least conceded that schools in hot spots should delay reopening. The spread of coronavirus hurts his campaign and helps Democrats in so many ways. Getting on top of this spread should surely be a top priority.

    So much packed in there:
    1. “Donald Trump has at least conceded that schools in hot spots should delay reopening”

    Why the prejudice? Donald Trump has been in favour of reopening where possible. Did he say that “hot spots” should not reopen?

    2. “The spread of coronavirus hurts his campaign and helps Democrats in so many ways”
    I am not so sure about that. What ways?

    3. “Getting on top of this spread should surely be a top priority.”
    I agree. But what is the best strategy? US health Authorities have blocked so many possible responses, including hydroxychloroquine.

    120

  • #
    Strop

    Could be that kids 0-9 are not out in public without their parents controlling their pandemic habits and protocols. But a teenager is probably out an about with parental guidance and throwing caution to the wind.

    90

    • #
      Strop

      Correction.

      But a teenager is probably out and about without parental guidance

      Ok. Wasn’t worth writing the first time either.

      30

    • #

      Or could it be that with all the schools and day care gone, the parents of small children are more likely to be staying home themselves.

      10

  • #
    Sean

    I appreciate people’s comments about socializing teenagers but with this disease short range aerosol transmission is key. Teenagers interact eye to eye With parents (or mouth to mouth) but under 10 it’s eye to belly button. In ballistic artillery terms, the little ones don’t hold the high ground.

    80

    • #

      Hugs cuddles and close contact is so much more common with little ones.

      We lift them up to head height.

      Not so the average 13 year old.

      I would think the risk of breathing close air face to face would be higher with a three year old than a 12+. Traditionally the under fives are the wildly dominant spreaders of any disease. Hands on everything.

      This is different.

      72

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    The Victoriastan CP need to release cause of death from what is noted as “coronavirus” but I expect is actually pre-existing co-morbidities.

    This information appears to be the one thing that is being withheld.

    Why?

    It needs to be released, but if it was, the game would be over.

    Bad stuff happens in the dark of secrecy…nothing good can come of it.

    101

  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    No school then

    07

    • #
      AndyG55

      “No school then”

      .. You will be able to join Greta.

      90

    • #
      Fred Streeter

      Not necessary.

      We home-schooled our 4 to GCE ‘O’ Level standard.
      College handled the ‘A’ Level, University the Degree.

      00

  • #
    Former NIH Researcher

    How to create a pandemic
    This is a provoking thought experiment:
    Imagine that you want to start a pandemic, what would you need.
    1. Find some vague criteria for what constitutes the symptoms you want people to look for. Anything subjective that a lot of people can identify with is ideal. Let us take memory problems and/or confusion + a few common ones from the Covid list. Tiredness, aches nd pains are common and subjective enough. (For covid 19 the symptoms are: fever
    dry cough
    tiredness

    Less common symptoms:
    aches and pains
    sore throat
    diarrhoea
    conjunctivitis
    headache
    loss of taste or smell
    a rash on skin, or discolouration of fingers or toes)
    It wold be a good idea to take something that was very common in old people so that we can use death from old age as proof of the lethality of the new virus.

    2. Then we would need something biological to test. Any RNA sequence would do as long as it is not present in the whole population. If it were, someone might claim herd immunity very quickly. Actually it could be a RNA sequence that does not really exist in humans but something that could exist as contamination in labs, e.g. in dust or water. That would be enough for a RT qPCR test to pick up as a false positive. Many RT PCRs have false positive rates of 3-5 % and that would be plenty to create a scare. (When it comes to Covid, the sales positive rate is impossible to know for sure, since we don’t have a gold standard to check against, but for many other similar tests, the average sales positive rate is over 3%. And different labs are testing for different sequences. We can count on over stressed labs to be more prone to contamination than labs taking past in research knowing they will be checked for accuracy, the ones that gave over 3% false positives. Maybe the error rate for the average stressed lab is as high as 8%. BMJ counts 5% as a reasonable estimate. With 8% we would have all positive tests in the US explained by false positives)
    3. Then we are all set to go. We just have to claim that we have discovered a new cluster of symptoms and that is related to a new RNA sequence. It starts with memory loss, and confusion. In other words this is a neurotoxic virus, and it leads to death in all the ways old people can die, by strokes, heart attacks, pneumonia, kidney failure, sepsis, organ failure, dehydration. It sortant matter of the patient was close to deaths door anyway because of existing problems. We can always claim that without our new virus, they would not have died. Who cold counter that?( just like Covid; People die from all kinds of disorders act they already had before the god the cover test)
    4. By some miracle we have already discovered exactly the virus that is responsible among the millions of different viruses that exist in any cubic centimeter of air. So we already have a RT PCR test read to go. This makes us look like very competent researchers. O course we have bought stock in the major testing labs ahead of time. We’ve bought stocks in the biggest vaccine manufacturers also of course. That will be the biggest money maler finally, hopefully for years since it will be difficult to get antibodies to something that doesn’t really exist. We can see to that the ting to test for will at least be present in dirty labs so that we can get enough false positives)
    5. So now we just have to spread the news that a new deadly pandemic is spreading all over the world, and every country has to start testing. We can count on the 5% hypochondriacs in the general population to come forth to be tested first. It will always take some time for each country to get started and ramp up their testing, so the graphs are guaranteed to look exponential in the beginning.
    6. All you need now is for people to bring their old and confused elderly in for testing, ansd with 5% false positives, we will soon have most hospital beds filled with olds sick confused patients. We can count on doctors to treat them aggressively. Most of these old people will be on a coctail of drugs already so adding a few more drugs as “heroic treatment” will be sure to push them over the edge. Many will have pneumonia from the seasonal flu, so we can just prolongue this by putting them in ventilators. Then they will die a month later and we can say it wasn’t the flu since the flu season should have stopped a month earlier.
    7. The graphs of numbers tested positive will be exponential in the beginning, but flatten off as the testers reach their max level. After some time the lab technicians will be exhausted and tend to become sloppy, the pressure for testing will be relentless and the labs will get dirtier and dirtier, and we will get higher and higher false positive rates. Usually the media will be satisfied with reporting just the number of positive teste, but in case anybody should think of checking proportion of positive tests compare to total number of tests, they would get hisgher number each week because of overworked error prone labs. Eventually, society will run out of hypochondriacs who will come for tests voluntarily, and many will have understood that should they test positive, they will be put together with really sick people unprotected, since they all have the same virus…So the curves will flatten and start going down.
    8. If you want to destroy the economy during the pandemic, you will get some programmer to make a prediction of millions of deaths ( actually 70 million die every year anyway, so that is not really difficult) if we don’t lock down society. We just have to scare them to lock downright before the curve flattens (when we are running out of the 5% hypochondriacs) and all the politicians will think they saved their country.
    9. Just for fun, to see how strangely we could make gullible people act, we could invent different strategies for protection. Social distancing can look really funny in a supermarket, and all the original ways of saluting is interesting , leg touching elbow touching (even if we cough in our elbows now). We could make a lot of money on masks, gloves and sanitisers too.
    10. In order to make money on vaccines, we will start testing antibodies. Here the false positive error rate is even greater, so we may easily get 10% with antibodies just from false positives. But on retest, we will statistically get only one percent testing positive if we test the same people. That means that we will need may boosters of the vaccine. In order to maximise the profit, we may put something in the vaccine that make people sick and then we can cure them with a very expensive drug produced by a company we have already invested in. But to be sure maximum number of countries will pay almost any price for the vaccine, we have to wait until they re really desperate.
    11. We can always count on several waves of the virus since the common flu and colds will come every year and kill hundreds of thousands like , and 3-10% of them will test false positive for our virus every time. So we have a fantastic money maker for years: Expensive tests, expensive drugs, and expensive vaccines for 7 billion people every year.
    12. We can count on doctors being sure that they are right in all they do. They will counter each other in every turn, and since there is no real new disease to cure, the research will run into endless blind alleys. This will prime all doctors for accepting a vaccine. We just have to make sure there is no cheap effective drug for common ailments that can kill people. We can always pay some doctors to make up some numbers and pay journals to publish (like the fake negative HydroxyChloroquin research).

    51

  • #
    Tonyb

    Very interesting article. As others have observed this age group are very likely to be away from their parents influence, like to meet up with friends and have no concept of social distancing. The end result is that the virus is very likely to spread amongst large groups of teenagers, then is taken back to the family home.

    I am not sure this information is new as it was constantly referenced in the early days of the Italian experience. Teenagers would visit their friends illicitly then bring the virus back to multi generational houses where it spread rapidly.

    I do not know if any education and warnings are specifically targeted at this group or if they would take any notice anyway.

    20

    • #

      That may be. OR it may be that teens are larger shedders of virus, and for some reason the youngest children knock this virus out fast with innate immunity and therefore are not big shedders. In any case, it may mean that primary schools can be reopened which will help the economy as they are day care centres. But teens could learn from home. Might be the least impact way to slow the virus with the smallest impact.

      62

  • #
    Jojodogfacedboy

    The current problem is that governments created this socialization with businesses jamming and clumping as many people together including schools, planes and trains, arenas, etc.
    When this 2 meter rule came out, even park benches were too shot to properly social distance and fines were given.
    Rather than rethink and change this system, government are trying go back to the old which is now impossible. With promises of full schools and full daycares which have massive new restrictions and safety concerns. When someone is infected, then the whole group has a mandatory 14 day self isolation and heavy fines are imposed if broken.
    So,this system is not working.

    10

    • #
      Jojodogfacedboy

      With wanting to party and have fun, there have been a few instances now where more than 200 people and the police and bi-law are called in. The home owners are heavily fined as well as everyone not socially distancing fined.

      00

    • #
      Jojodogfacedboy

      Before this Pandemic, they were trying to jamb 40 children per classroom. And now talking of a maximum 15. So, parents are very sceptical of how this will work out. Most governments are currently watching what other schools are doing as they really have no clue what to do.
      The costs too are getting quite massive on our over indebted system.

      00

  • #
    Richard Ilfeld

    This may be true.
    But it may be false.
    I say this with no knowledge whatsoever.
    I say this because the level of CVOID porn has exceeded the level of COVID reality in the media by orders of magnitude.
    Blatant lies about health information are OK in service US politics, because we have lost our minds.
    According to the press, I live in the new world epicenter.
    https://issuesinsights.com/2020/07/27/florida-is-a-case-study-in-media-induced-covid-19-panic/

    It is actually the epicenter of states the left feel they can turn from Democrat to Republican; and they seem to think than fear of COVID and violence is
    a winning strategy. Their views, and sometime actions have become as extreme as those of revolutionaries the world over.
    And vacuous teenagers are their army. No matter how much danger they may pose from COVID, at the moment they seem to me to pose more from
    abject political stupidity and willingness to serve as footsoldiers and cannon fodder for an angry and stupid anarchistic element in our midst.

    Raising kids who think it is a resume credential to torch a police car is a proud achievement of the left. It’s not a mystery that they spread COVID with their hate. Our dozen largest cities have become tumors to be excised from the body politic and discarded, along with much of their viral support system of Uiversities. In this crisis they are proving their value.

    70

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Richard, I think when some of these morons meet armed citizens, the reality of how bad it might go for them will give them a true education on the spot.

      I don’t endorse violence in any way, however if it comes to being attacked by a mob and I have to consider my families safety, I will win that argument each time, no exceptions.

      This sherriff is old school, and wise.

      https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/sheriff-warns-rioters-that-residents-like-guns-and-deputies-will-lock-you-up-if-you-engage-in-any-criminal-conduct

      “Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd addressed the situation Monday during a press conference.

      ““I would tell them, if you value your life, they probably shouldn’t do that in Polk County. Because the people of Polk County like guns, they have guns, I encourage them to own guns, and they’re going to be in their homes tonight with their guns loaded, and if you try to break into their homes to steal, to set fires, I’m highly recommending they blow you back out of the house with their guns. So, leave the community alone,” he said.

      30

      • #
        wal1957

        I remember watching the press conference given by the Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd and thinking…go you good thing!

        People are tired, upset and angry with all the damage that these ‘peaceful’ protestors are causing. They’re also scared of what may happen if they find themselves in the middle. This will not end well.

        20

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      It’s time that every “unemployed” person or disengaged person was given a shovel and hoe to use in the service of the community.

      Under strict supervision, those needing a focus to life could go to work cleaning up the local vegetative Environment such as Bush, road verges. A truly worthwhile endeavour but unlikely to be politically feasible at the moment.

      The BLM gang and associated victimhood collectives are human tragedies that hold nothing for the future.

      10

  • #
    John of Cloverdale

    Off the topic, but related.
    Medical opinion is now censored and banned by the Ministry of Truth of Facebook, Instagram and Twitter
    https://twitter.com/JamesTodaroMD/status/1288057175030616064?s=20

    From my sudden research of Medical Science, during COVID-19, I have found it is full of contradictory research and those outside the establishment are treated like lepers. One past example, was initially treatment of our WA Drs, Marshall and Warren in their own research of the causes of stomach ulcers. Another example is studies on hydroxychloroquine. When Trump mentioned it, out came the Ministry of Truth agents, CNN, BBC, ABC then Facebook and Twitter.
    In my early days as a geoscientist, located in Singapore than Jakarta, with Union Oil of California (UNOCAL), I was privileged to work briefly with the great geologist, Dr Sam Carey (Foundation Professor of Geology, University of Tasmania) on the geology of Indonesia. I always remember his quote:

    Really new trails are rarely blazed in the great academies. The confining walls of conformist dogma are too dominating. To think originally, you must go forth into the wilderness.

    Luckily, I came from the same alma mater of Sydney University, as the late Prof Carey, where we were taught not to accept previous research references on the surface but to examine the data thoroughly and come to our own independent conclusions.
    That has served me well in my career and beyond, especially ‘Climate Change’ and now COVID-19, which have become political weapons to control human mankind. Never mind the science.

    100

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      And this is why I suspect the Victoriastan powers that be wont release the autopsy info for those how have allegedly died from “covid19″.

      If they did, people would see what I suspect is the reality of death really being from pre-existing medical condition, and there is no need for lockdowns, as lockdowns are being used as a emporers new clothes excuse to monster the population.

      60

      • #
        Rob Kennedy

        Easy there OriginalSteve! Just as well you will not be widely reported in the MSM otherwise you might “wake” people to the “DamnPanic” and sabotage “The Great Reset”.

        30

  • #
    Former NIH Researcher

    How to create a pandemic

    Imagine that you want to start a pandemic, what would you need.
    1. Find some vague criteria for what constitutes the symptoms you want people to look for. Anything subjective that a lot of people can identify with is ideal. Let us take memory problems and/or confusion + a few common ones from the Covid list. Tiredness, aches nd pains are common and subjective enough. (For covid 19 the symptoms are: fever
    dry cough
    tiredness

    Less common symptoms:
    aches and pains
    sore throat
    diarrhoea
    conjunctivitis
    headache
    loss of taste or smell
    a rash on skin, or discolouration of fingers or toes)
    It wold be a good idea to take something that was very common in old people so that we can use death from old age as proof of the lethality of the new virus.

    2. Then we would need something biological to test. Any RNA sequence would do as long as it is not present in the whole population. If it were, someone might claim herd immunity very quickly. Actually it could be a RNA sequence that does not really exist in humans but something that could exist as contamination in labs, e.g. in dust or water. That would be enough for a RT qPCR test to pick up as a false positive. Many RT PCRs have false positive rates of 3-5 % and that would be plenty to create a scare. (When it comes to Covid, the sales positive rate is impossible to know for sure, since we don’t have a gold standard to check against, but for many other similar tests, the average sales positive rate is over 3%. And different labs are testing for different sequences. We can count on over stressed labs to be more prone to contamination than labs taking past in research knowing they will be checked for accuracy, the ones that gave over 3% false positives. Maybe the error rate for the average stressed lab is as high as 8%. BMJ counts 5% as a reasonable estimate. With 8% we would have all positive tests in the US explained by false positives)
    3. Then we are all set to go. We just have to claim that we have discovered a new cluster of symptoms and that is related to a new RNA sequence. It starts with memory loss, and confusion. In other words this is a neurotoxic virus, and it leads to death in all the ways old people can die, by strokes, heart attacks, pneumonia, kidney failure, sepsis, organ failure, dehydration. It sortant matter of the patient was close to deaths door anyway because of existing problems. We can always claim that without our new virus, they would not have died. Who cold counter that?( just like Covid; People die from all kinds of disorders act they already had before the god the cover test)
    4. By some miracle we have already discovered exactly the virus that is responsible among the millions of different viruses that exist in any cubic centimeter of air. So we already have a RT PCR test read to go. This makes us look like very competent researchers. O course we have bought stock in the major testing labs ahead of time. We’ve bought stocks in the biggest vaccine manufacturers also of course. That will be the biggest money maler finally, hopefully for years since it will be difficult to get antibodies to something that doesn’t really exist. We can see to that the ting to test for will at least be present in dirty labs so that we can get enough false positives)
    5. So now we just have to spread the news that a new deadly pandemic is spreading all over the world, and every country has to start testing. We can count on the 5% hypochondriacs in the general population to come forth to be tested first. It will always take some time for each country to get started and ramp up their testing, so the graphs are guaranteed to look exponential in the beginning.
    6. All you need now is for people to bring their old and confused elderly in for testing, ansd with 5% false positives, we will soon have most hospital beds filled with olds sick confused patients. We can count on doctors to treat them aggressively. Most of these old people will be on a coctail of drugs already so adding a few more drugs as “heroic treatment” will be sure to push them over the edge. Many will have pneumonia from the seasonal flu, so we can just prolongue this by putting them in ventilators. Then they will die a month later and we can say it wasn’t the flu since the flu season should have stopped a month earlier.
    7. The graphs of numbers tested positive will be exponential in the beginning, but flatten off as the testers reach their max level. After some time the lab technicians will be exhausted and tend to become sloppy, the pressure for testing will be relentless and the labs will get dirtier and dirtier, and we will get higher and higher false positive rates. Usually the media will be satisfied with reporting just the number of positive teste, but in case anybody should think of checking proportion of positive tests compare to total number of tests, they would get hisgher number each week because of overworked error prone labs. Eventually, society will run out of hypochondriacs who will come for tests voluntarily, and many will have understood that should they test positive, they will be put together with really sick people unprotected, since they all have the same virus…So the curves will flatten and start going down.
    8. If you want to destroy the economy during the pandemic, you will get some programmer to make a prediction of millions of deaths ( actually 70 million die every year anyway, so that is not really difficult) if we don’t lock down society. We just have to scare them to lock downright before the curve flattens (when we are running out of the 5% hypochondriacs) and all the politicians will think they saved their country.
    9. Just for fun, to see how strangely we could make gullible people act, we could invent different strategies for protection. Social distancing can look really funny in a supermarket, and all the original ways of saluting is interesting , leg touching elbow touching (even if we cough in our elbows now). We could make a lot of money on masks, gloves and sanitisers too.
    10. In order to make money on vaccines, we will start testing antibodies. Here the false positive error rate is even greater, so we may easily get 10% with antibodies just from false positives. But on retest, we will statistically get only one percent testing positive if we test the same people. That means that we will need may boosters of the vaccine. In order to maximise the profit, we may put something in the vaccine that make people sick and then we can cure them with a very expensive drug produced by a company we have already invested in. But to be sure maximum number of countries will pay almost any price for the vaccine, we have to wait until they re really desperate.
    11. We can always count on several waves of the virus since the common flu and colds will come every year and kill hundreds of thousands like , and 3-10% of them will test false positive for our virus every time. So we have a fantastic money maker for years: Expensive tests, expensive drugs, and expensive vaccines for 7 billion people every year.
    12. We can count on doctors being sure that they are right in all they do. They will counter each other in every turn, and since there is no real new disease to cure, the research will run into endless blind alleys. This will prime all doctors for accepting a vaccine. We just have to make sure there is no cheap effective drug for common ailments that can kill people. We can always pay some doctors to make up some numbers and pay journals to publish (like the fake negative HydroxyChloroquin research).

    11

    • #

      13. Pay off doctors all over the world to say the same message that clotting is out of control, that people can’t breathe, and to conduct fake autopsies. Somehow, no one leaks it.

      14. Pay off half a million people to die in coffins and urns. Fake bodies!

      52

      • #
        Kevin a

        Think of it as Global Warming 2.0, the same people that rig the temp data are behind the covid counts, it’s that simple.

        20

      • #
        Rob Kennedy

        Jo,there is no need to pay off the doctors, they are usually held in firm control by the AMA (Australian Medical Association which is lockstep with the Ammerican Medical Association). To step out of line is to court deregistration and a dramatic career change.
        A notable example: Dr Archie Kalokerinos MBBS PhD FAPM. fell foul of the AMA many years ago by saving the lives of aboriginal children at Collarenebi Hospital (NSW) by administering vitamin c.
        He wrote a book “Every Second Child” relating the unnecessary deaths of indigenous Australians due to our “Health Experts.” He became an ardent anti-vaxxer just by witnessing first hand what went on in the name of “health”. Why wasn’t his successes with saving lives investigated further? Because his treatment (Vitamin C IV) had not been double-blind tested etc, etc, – just like today Hydroxychloroquine is an untested and perhaps dangerous treatment because it has not been double-blind. . . blah, blah, blah). If you are a medical researcher you will never ever get funded to test the efficacy of vitamin c). A decade ago, in NZ, Alan Smith was “resurrected” with Vitamin C IV a few days before the medical authorities wer to turn off his Ecmo life support. Even after the event the head medical person would not admit that the vitamin c had any part in his his recovery. His two sons (dairy farmers) prevailed upon the doctor to give him vitamin c, because when one of their cows “went down” they injected it with a shot of vitaminc , and the cow got up again and recovered.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHhLYqF85EA
        In the above video Professor Avni Sali AM
        MBBS, PhD, FRACS, FACS, FACNEM
        Member of the Order of Australia
        Founding Director of the National Institute of Integrative Medicine.
        says that anyone venturing down the path of alternative treatments willmeet opposition.
        Prof Ian Brighthope MBBS, Dip Ag Sci, FACNEM, FASEM, MAIAST
        Fellow of Australasian College of Nutritional
        and Environmental Medicine says the same.

        Another story: Anton Kuraia’s recovery from cancer and Prof. Margreet Visser’s research at the University of Otago (all she wanted was $1 million to continue her research) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBMnRmbNMr0

        There is no need for fake bodies, the deaths are not exceptional compared to other years with the flu.

        Last year: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-11/early-outbreaks-to-blame-for-worst-flu-season-on-record/11949320
        Flu season which struck down 310,000 Australians ‘worst on record’ due to early outbreaks
        Hospital beds full and staff sick
        While 2019 saw the highest number of influenza cases across the country, 2017 still holds the record for the highest number of flu-related deaths, with over 1,100 cases.Last year there were over 900 influenza linked deaths in Australia.

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          Rob, while I agree with some of the things you say, and have heard it all before, in the politest possible way “so what”? Ponder the jaw dropping size of the conspiracy to get doctors, not just in Australia, but in Italy, Iran, Brazil, Japan, China, South Africa and Indonesia etc etc to all say the same things, acting scared, sleeping in their cars, selling out their medical souls to fake a harmless germ into a global pandemic.

          You evidently have never talked to someone working in a Coronavirus ICU. Try it. It’s eye opening.

          I’m as cynical as they get about the AMA, but they aren’t faking bodies in Brazil.

          Just because the vested interests in this are worth trillions doesn’t mean All Pandemics Are Proven Fake.
          It’s just possible that the vested interests are milking a real pandemic, eh?

          As for “it’s just the flu deaths” — when was the last time nations got their armies involved in transporting coffins, digging mass graves, or taking over ice rinks and freezer trucks to store the dead. There are so many holes in the “Equivalence” argument it’s like the catchcry “we’re 100% renewable”.. Lets blend one months coronavirus deaths against a whole year of flu cases and pretend that there was no lockdown, and that the flu burden doesn’t mean “every respiratory disease we can model.

          And the thing is, there are real dead bodies and an exponential curve …

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            Rob Kennedy

            Ponder the jaw dropping size of the conspiracy to get doctors, not just in Australia, but in Italy, Iran, Brazil, Japan, China, South Africa and Indonesia etc etc to all say the same things, acting scared, sleeping in their cars, selling out their medical souls to fake a harmless germ into a global pandemic.

            But they are not all saying the same thing. It’s just that they never get heard in the MSM which is absolutely flat out with its “Flood the Zone” program.

            It’s true I have never spoken to someone working in a “coronavirus ICU”. For those working there it wpould be the first time ever, previously it would be called
            pneumonia, old age or a similar designation.

            “So the vast majority of respiratory deaths in the UK are recorded as bronchopneumonia, pneumonia, old age or a similar designation. We don’t really test for flu, or other seasonal infections.”. “Now look at what has happened since the emergence of Covid-19. The list of notifiable diseases has been updated. This list — as well as containing smallpox (which has been extinct for many years) and conditions such as anthrax, brucellosis, plague and rabies (which most UK doctors will never see in their entire careers) — has now been amended to include Covid-19. But not flu. That means every positive test for Covid-19 must be notified, in a way that it just would not be for flu or most other infections.” Ref. https://off-guardian.org/2020/04/17/8-more-experts-questioning-the-coronavirus-panic/
            https://off-guardian.org/2020/07/02/no-one-has-died-from-the-coronavirus-president-of-the-bulgarian-pathology-association/
            A high-profile European pathologist is reporting that he and his colleagues across Europe have not found any evidence of any deaths from the novel coronavirus on that continent.

            Dr. Stoian Alexov called the World Health Organization (WHO) a “criminal medical organization” for creating worldwide fear and chaos without providing objectively verifiable proof of a pandemic.

            Another stunning revelation from Bulgarian Pathology Association (BPA) president Dr. Alexov is that he believes it’s currently “impossible” to create a vaccine against the virus.

            He also revealed that European pathologists haven’t identified any antibodies that are specific for SARS-CoV-2.

            These stunning statements raise major questions, including about officials’ and scientists’ claims regarding the many vaccines they’re rushing into clinical trials around the world.

            They also raise doubt about the veracity of claims of discovery of anti-novel-coronavirus antibodies (which are beginning to be used to treat patients).

            Novel-coronavirus-specific antibodies are supposedly the basis for the expensive serology test kits being used in many countries (some of which have been found to be unacceptably inaccurate).

            when was the last time nations got their armies involved in transporting coffins, digging mass graves, or taking over ice rinks and freezer trucks to store the dead.

            Pure optics – when people in the USA and Germany for example went to check on the overwhelmed hospitals – hello, hello, anyone here? No. Freezer trucks are used all the time in large poulation density cities. Troops digging graves – easy to arrange. The mass graves in New York have been a feature since the Civil War for homeless people. The over-counting of “Covid19 victims” has been done in many countries, but thankfully not in Australia.
            As per my reference to the 2017 and 2019 flu in my above post, if we had such a terrible death toll, why did we not go into lockdown then? W.H.O can answer that.

            Additional references: https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/24/12-experts-questioning-the-coronavirus-panic/
            https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/28/10-more-experts-criticising-the-coronavirus-panic/

            BTW, I do believe in pandemics and bearing in mind the Global Preparedness Monitoring Board’s publication from Sept 2019 where they state that by Sept 2020, the UN (including W.H.O.) will conduct at least two systemwide training and simulation exercises including one covering the deliberate release of a lethal respiratory pathogen. Bill and Melinda have told us the next one will gain our attention. Even the 9/11 twin towers job had training and simulation exercises going on at the same time, as did the London train & bus bombing, . . . and there are others.

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              Some of these are just plain irrelevant Rob. Timewasting .

              Do you even read what I write?

              “As per my reference to the 2017 and 2019 flu in my above post, if we had such a terrible death toll, why did we not go into lockdown then?”

              This is the whole point Rob. As I keep saying — the early days of Covid in lockdown is not “equal” to full season Flu without lockdown.

              What can I say? Sure — Freezer Trucks are just “Optics”. We are not burying mums and dads, the families will be pleased to know. Coffin makers didn’t run out of coffins. Rob said so.

              What’s the point of discussing it? Apparently, there is no evidence you will accept. Almost every frontline doc in the world says this is not the flu. But a motivated brain can find a few desktop experts to declare there’s nothing to fear. Perhaps it makes you feel safer?

              Whatever you do Rob, don’t talk to an ICU specialist.

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          Kalm Keith

          Rob, good outline.

          I am very much “pro” vaccine but recent events surrounding the flu vax have given me a lot of concern. Coupled with the present world political weirdness I’m at the stage of thinking twice and acting once.

          At last check yesterday Australia’s CV19 death toll was about 176.

          In the same five months Australia’s tragic suicide rate would have given 1400 victims, a significant number of road deaths and significant number of deaths from simply overeating: don’t mention ice and alcohol.

          These last suggest that Australia is the unlucky country where politicians can’t do the right thing for us.

          Every day on radio I hear Dan from down there telling people “we’ll get through this” and checking out the online news shows a photo of him in some weird pose hiding from a virus or avoiding a falling smokestack from his latest power station demolition. Do Victorians really vote for him.

          If people are cautious about the stories of CV19 it may be a reflection of what they see in politics, a disorganised mess.

          KK

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      Kalm Keith

      Long,big.
      Thought provoking.

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      What a chain of logic. I hope your fingers didn’t bleed typing it.

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    nc

    this is a must read

    “Dr Stella Immanuel V Dr. Fauci-TKO. HCQ Championed. | Watts Up With That?” https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/07/28/dr-stella-immanuel-v-fauci-tko/

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    MrGrimNasty

    “Ponder how unusual this epidemiology is……” The answer is of course NOT IN THE LEAST – as you would find if you searched for the same things you claim are unique to CV19 in the context of flu.

    Existing corona viruses including different flu strains do show very distinct variations in infectiousness and severity of symptoms by age groups.
    It’s partly to do with previous exposure (or lack of) but also the level of maturity of the immune system.

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    R.B.

    A bit from leftfield. Older people are wasting away. Kids are growing. I know some healthy people and not that old people get sick, even a new born, but the fit 40 yo seem to be doing a lot of aerobic exercise e.g. running. Possibly changing from high resistance training?

    No idea what physiological basis for it would be. Its just based on the strangeness of children, mostly, being immune from symptoms.

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    EternalOptimist

    latest news from England. The weekly deaths are below the rolling five year average for the fifth week running.

    Flu and pneumonia deaths are way down for the sixth week running. (cf the five year rolling average)

    If you add the flu and pneumonia deaths to the covid deaths, they equal (roughly) the five year rolling average of flu & pneumonia deaths.

    You would not guess this from whats happening in the msm. But, as has been said here many, many times, the media is the problem.

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    Martin Nolan

    There is an interesting article “New York Times-Hyped Korean Report Actually Shows Kids Are Not Spreading Coronavirus,” July 22, 2020 By Phil Kerpen <a href="https://thefederalist.com/2020/07/22/new-york-times-hyped-korean-report-actually-shows-kids-are-not-spreading-coronavirus/&quot; that points out that in the study children under 20 comprise only 2.7% of the potential index cases (first cases in the home) and they may not be index cases at all as the paper noted that the direction of transmission could not be determined. The article cites an expert on pediatric COVID-19 that said that he had seen unpublished data on the same group of children from the original study indicating that “Almost every single secondary case from a child index case SHARED the initial exposure” and “Meaning they probably became infected at the same time, the child just developed the symptoms first”.

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    Russell

    Index 10-19 is completely useless and needs to be subdivided for one very clear reason.
    Introductory s3xual activity is strong in this age group and this is a powerful human instinct that is hard to resist.
    Sure, you can blame parents and loose moral values but it’s a major fight with nature.
    It can only be countered by other strong motivators (like has been in the past with pregnancy or AIDS).
    I’d suggest the Gov needs to be targeting the older 10-19 group on social media with risk messages.

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    Kevin a

    Sweden: The One Chart That Matters.
    While the Covid-19 epidemic continues to drag on in the United States, it’s largely over in Sweden where fatalities have dropped to no more than 2 deaths per day for the last week.
    https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/sweden-one-chart-matters

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    EternalOptimist

    More news from nw England.
    Daughter (paramedic) reporting that the corridors of a big hospital are now choc a block. full. after a few weeks of low activity
    Not Covid or flu, but normal bumps scrapes, breaks and strains, lung, chest issues that have been deferred. Some will be conditions that will now prove terminal. and so we get a second spike.
    not covid, but a lockdown spike, i guess.

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