JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Weekend Unthreaded

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Rating: 9.4/10 (17 votes cast)
Weekend Unthreaded, 9.4 out of 10 based on 17 ratings

124 comments to Weekend Unthreaded

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    Annie

    Partial eclipse of the sun starting in UAE and general area shortly.
    https://www.timeanddate.com/live/eclipse-solar-2020-june-21

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  • #
    Annie

    Fairly large coverage in Dubai, about 88% plus.

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    • #
      Annie

      Just past max there; son has taken pics and now about to process them. Everything very dark. Once again I have managed to miss a good eclipse; the story of my life.
      It was/is an annular solar eclipse in quite a few places but not in Dubai but good coverage nonetheless.

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      • #
        el gordo

        There are six solar eclipses this year and four lunar eclipses, its almost unprecedented.

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    hillbilly33

    Conservative Katie Hopkins reveals why she was permanently banned from Twitter. Hilarious, but also frightening to see the depths to which the Leftist PC brigade will descend to try and silence any and all conservative voices.

    https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6166042996001

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    • #
      Serp

      Thanks for that. Have finally to acknowledge that Boris is a lost cause and agree with Katie that a worry is that “he’s going to come out as trans or something just to try and fit in”.

      The forces on a British PM are something I can only guess at but Boris has no plan so we’re due for something even less accountable than Blair’s sofa politics. The UK is much more in thrall to climatism’s projectionists and mountebanks than Australia to the extent that Boris is still talking up an EV led something or other witless.

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      Bulldust

      Hung like a baboon, eh? And yet college professors who say things like “All I want for Xmas, is a white genocide” are perfectly OK. Pretty sure that guy was never booted off Twitter or cancelled out of his job.

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      • #
        Bulldust

        I should add, not that I use Twitter, because it is literally cancer. Cancer of the brain, that is.

        80

  • #
    Chad

    A small detail from the previous SA solar discussion thread..
    It was reported there are 278,000 roof top solar systems in SA
    From ANERo reports, the MAX PEAK RT solar generation in SA is around 900MW , mid summer.
    This combined suggests that the average system in SA produces 3.2 kW PEAK, with more likely a average output of 1.5kW, and daily generation of 10-15 kWh daily generation.
    What this implies is that there is little chance of any significant surplus RT to feed back into the local grid….on AVERAGE..
    Certainly not the massive amounts that some imagine.
    NOTE.. this is a crude average of all the installed systems, so obviously there will be some RT systems much bigger than 3 kWh which do feed back to the grid,..but they cannot be a significant number.
    RT Solar simply REDUCES THE DEMAND on the grid during daylight hours ….due to behind the meter consumption… which is why AEMO want to be able to shut RT panels off, to increase load on the grid to keep the Gas plants running 24/7

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    • #
      RickWill

      It is not the average that causes the problem. It is the peak when the demand is low that causes the stability issues.

      In November this year, the NEM demand in SA should be down to 300MW or lower at midday.

      70

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        Rick it seems to me that folks with NO solar roof top panels
        ( Like my self )
        Should be getting a rebate every quarter.
        Why ?
        Because we are not causing any grid network problems
        And not causing other people’s electrical gear to blow up
        Due to Solar & Wing induced
        Excessive voltage and unstable frequency.

        123

    • #
      Analitik

      With electricity grids, the peaks and dips are the cause of issues. Averages matter very little as the system design (to cope with the peaks and dips) will easily cope with these.

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      • #
        Chad

        You are misunderstanding my use of the term average.
        What i am saying is that 3.2 kW is the average midday PEAK across all those 278,000 RT solar systems.
        Any sensible RT installation would be configured to maximise the use of that midday peak for in house use..IE A/C, wash m/c, , water heater, Battery, etc.
        It is easy to find uses for 3.2kW in a typical house !
        So, again , i doubt much of the RT solar ..even at its peak of 900MW generation, actually get fed back into the grid….It simply reduces the demand on the grid , leaving very little load on the grid generators.
        …..

        43

  • #

    Look closely at the image at this link.

    This is the AEMO electricity price bid structure, and for ease of explanation at the AEMO for its readers, it has purposely been simplified to this very basic nature.

    This diagram has systematically been misinterpreted by quite literally everyone, especially all those people in the Media who tell us that they are the electricity ‘specialists’ you know, economists.

    This diagram explains the cost structure as more power is added to the grid to cover the increases in consumption. As new power is added, it becomes more expensive. It is added in five minute increments and then those added five minute costs are averaged at the end of each half hour, and everyone gets paid the new average. It works on the way up, as more power is required, and also on the way down, as power consumption decreases, on the basis of last one added is the first one removed.

    For years now, we have been told that fossil fuelled plants, especially those coal fired plants are ‘gaming’ the system, and because of that, it is THEY (fossil fuelled plants) who are causing power costs to rise, because if it was solely just those renewables of choice, wind and solar, then power prices would be kept lower, so it is those two renewables which were told ad infinitum are cheaper than coal fired power.

    Okay then, look again at that simplified diagram I linked to.

    See that dark brown colour at the bottom of the image all of that in the area marked as 1. (one)

    That is 75% of the average power consumption across the WHOLE day ….. and that is at 4AM in the morning, the absolute lowest power consumption for the day. That line between brown and blue is the minimum Base Load point for the day. That is the 18000MW point, the low for the day. From that point in time, power starts to rise and more is added, as per that ….. HALF HOUR chart. At the end of that half hour, ALL Generated Power is now in that brown area, with a new slightly higher cost, (on the way up, and lower on the way down) and each half hour on from then, that brown area grows.

    So, what is added is so tiny in each increment ….. when compared with that brown area percentage.

    Now at that 4AM point in time, 82% of that 18000MW is COAL FIRED POWER, 14800MW on average for the whole year. So, it is by definition already ….. the CHEAPEST power of all.

    As the day proceeds, coal fired power ramps up, but only by a small percentage when compared to the 14800MW it is already contributing.

    To say that an already contributing LOWEST price generator is gaming the system is patently false. And you only need look at each of the daily Load Curves for power generation (and comparing coal fired power to the overall) to see that coal fired power does what it does EVERY day, with hardly the smallest change in what it does. It is the ONLY stable contributor not only for just large scale power delivery, but for ALL power delivery. It has no need to game the system as it is already far and away the largest receiver of money from the sale of electricity. Any gaming would be such a tiny percentage as to be impossible to see, and such a tiny percentage of what it already is getting. There is NO power source at all in Australia which can deliver what coal fired power delivers EVERY single day.

    And now consider this. If wind power actually WAS stable and reliable keeping prices low, then what about if it fails as consistently as I have just found, consistently losing large amounts at any point in time, who knows when, then as it fails, more power needs to be added to the grid, all of it more expensive as per that same costing chart. So, in effect, wind generation is CAUSING power to be more expensive, by extrapolation.

    Naah! Don’t even begin to try and tell me that wind and solar power are cheaper than coal fired power.

    Tony.

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      robert rosicka

      The lefties at renew economy are gloating at how many millions of dollars the big battery has saved electricity consumers in SA but as usual written by a green economist no doubt .
      Brilliant read as always Tony thankyou .

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    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      do you understand the difference between the long term supply contracts, and spot price contracts, because if you did, you would not be making such statements. Simply put a distributor will will purchase long term contracts to cover 80-90% of their demand, and in some cases over 100% of demand. These contracts are way cheaper than the spot price versions which you focus on, although that being said, spot prices can go to 0 or below in some cases.

      The idea is that you lock in most of your supply with the long term contract which gives the generator certainty for production. The spot price contracts are the fine tuning necessary to match supply and demand. Producers in the short term market therefore have to ramp up and down in those 15 minute bid windows. So yes, at 4 am with virtually no fluctuations, is the bottom production value for a long term contract, and that is why it is both cheap, and mostly supplied by coal.

      I hope this explanation helps you

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  • #
    Kalm Keith

    A few threads back I engaged with a prominent figure on the blog regarding comments made by that person which suggested that thermal energy could come from Earth’s core, be evident as a detectable thermal gradient with a few metres of the Earth surface/ocean interface but;

    There Was No Heat/Energy Flow to the atmosphere.

    That was the claim.

    I queried it and was met with the usual reversal and misdirection. Someone asked me why I kept “feeding the Trolle”.

    The answer can be seen here;

    http://joannenova.com.au/2020/06/humans-do-ultimate-paris-lockdown-co2-hits-record-high-anyway/#comment-2335351

    That post shows that even on a blog like this, where presumably most are aware of pseudo science, people can let their guard down and endorse stuff that is presented confidently and in a sciency manner.

    People tend to be trusting.

    KK

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      robert rosicka

      KK many moons ago I had the bright idea that if I hooked up a 12 volt alternator and a 12 volt motor together and got em spinning I would create free energy and no one but no one could convince me otherwise .
      I spoke to a few auto elecs and wasn’t convinced by the explanation as to why it wouldn’t work and went ahead with welding up a frame to hold the contraption and guess what ? , experience is a great teacher .

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      • #
        Kalm Keith

        It’s always good to be exploring and thinking outside the box.
        The problems only come when we can’t see that we have misunderstood the situation.

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      • #
        Robdel

        The second law of thermodynamics is a great teacher.

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      KK:

      I didn’t read the controversy but I think Zoe has part of the idea. Firstly the Earth’s core is very hot >5000℃ (possibly 6,000). Heat must move upwards towards cooler places. Also we have volcanos and Black or white smokers under the sea, usually associated with tectonic plate edges, which surely transport some heat.

      Now, as I understand it the calculation for the Greenhouse Effect relies on the average temperature of the nearest object without an atmosphere (the Moon) but does that have an internal heating system? I think not. So the claim that the difference in average temperatures is due to the atmosphere ‘trapping’ Infra red, but if the Earth has some heat coming to the surface that greenhouse figure is exaggerated. Not that there isn’t a hole big enough in ‘climate science’ for a truck to drive through.

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      • #
        el gordo

        Zoe dismissed my suggestion that warm blobs are an important part of the equation.

        https://saltbushclub.com/2020/04/28/south-pacific-blob/

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      • #
        Kalm Keith

        Ahhh.

        So that was her contention, very clear and easy to follow as you describe it, but

        She never got that across and as you say, the basic idea probably has a few large holes in it.

        Without going into the idea of calculating some theoretical Greenhouse effect? The Calculator seemed unaware that the relative contributions to Earths energy budget at the surface were such that the whole exercise was a bit off target.

        It is a fact that the relative contributions of the two factors at the surface are:

        Leaking core energy; 0.1 Watts per square metre, and Solar Insolation much bigger so that the ratio of these contributions is 47 to 143,000 if my memory serves me well.

        Basically that comparison says that the Sun did it.

        :-)

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        • #

          Keith, you still don’t get it.
          The conductive heat flux is not the emergent flux.

          There are tons of profiles that have the same conductive heat flux:

          http://phzoe.com/2020/04/29/the-irrelevance-of-geothermal-heat-flux/

          Maybe a little experiment can illustrate:

          https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Z2tGx8BsP1Bvu9-VZUosIKUhOg9ZnipiM2vPdDAhoESGKKuzwwwZFI2GNgRhaemr9w

          What do we see? We see that the top and bottom temperature of liquid in this container are the same. The conductive heat flux (CHF) is therefore ZERO. But a ZERO CHF does not produce a ZERO emergent flux (EF).

          Despite the EMPIRICAL evidence, there are people that believe that you can set EF = CHF, using THEIR theory of thermodynamics, and calculate what the top temperature should be. THEIR theory predicts a STEEP temperature gradient through this container. Don’t deny this, THEY do expect a steep gradient. THEIR theory of conservation of heat flow produces a steep gradient.

          THEY think they are correct because they set up an equation that assumes conservation of heat flow (not energy). THEY ridicule my theory, and yet it is my theory that produces the correct result as VERIFIED by experiment – not theirs’.

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      • #
        Bulldust

        Graeme … I have it from a very reliable source that the Earth’s core is several million degrees hot:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NQHJIseqng

        I wonder if he still does his dog and pony shows…

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      • #
        Analitik

        if the Earth has some heat coming to the surface that greenhouse figure is exaggerated

        It doesn’t invalidate the notion of Global Warming from atmospheric CO2 increase, though. In fact it reinforces it if the CO2 blanket traps geothermal heat more efficiently than solar radiation.

        All bunkum, of course.

        30

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          Graeme No.3

          And of course the question should be “If CO2 hasn’t affected the climate for 450 million years, why has it started to do so in the last 45 years?”

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        • #

          Using enough GHG layers you can amplify 0.0000000000000001 W/m^2 into 390 W/m^2. Just another reason GH effect is junk science. Just add layers and claim they are real.

          GH effect junk science can’t predict surface temperatures. It can only in a post-hoc way tell you the number of layers it takes to amplify sun-induced BB temperature into surface temperatures.

          A theory that can postdict observations is a useless theory.

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    • #
      Peter C

      That post shows that even on a blog like this, where presumably most are aware of pseudo science, people can let their guard down and endorse stuff that is presented confidently and in a sciency manner.
      People tend to be trusting.

      To be clear. I have not endorsed Zoe’s geothermal hypothesis. I have looked in on her blog and tried to understand what she is saying. I don’t follow her data, not do I know exactly where she gets it from. Nor do I understand her programming. I do have a problem with her claim that the radiative power of geothermal conduction is at right angles to the surface;
      https://phzoe.com/2020/05/22/equating-perpendicular-planes-is-plain-nonsense/
      However I made no comment about it because I thought other people could read it for themselves.

      I have made a few comments here based on what I have read on her blog; most recently that 91mW geothermal energy is sufficient to raise the temperature of a black body in deep space to 30K. I said that would be sufficient in itself to explain the GHG hypothesis missing heat. I confess that I have not actually checked the calculation, but I intend to do so.

      I think she is a brave girl for putting forward her theory and inviting criticism. Hence I applaud her effort.

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        Kalm Keith

        Peter, up till recently I had expressed some appreciation for the fact that she was exploring ideas.

        Unfortunately there’s a strong tendency to be “off target” in terms of the basic science and a reluctance to look at that.

        Good computer programming though.

        I did go to the Blog twice but mostly saw misapplication of thermodynamic concepts and the S-B equation. On the last visit some time ago somebody had put up a comment that described a conflicted interaction with a well known figure in the counter global warming community. I was able to relate to that.

        But, tomorrow’s Monday and a fresh start to the week.

        :-)

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        Analitik

        I think she is a brave girl for putting forward her theory and inviting criticism. Hence I applaud her effort.

        I could appreciate her putting up a fringe theory if she wasn’t so belittling to those attempting to respond to the snippets she posts (and then links to her page as justification). If she isn’t a desperate attention seeker, then she does a good job of impersonating one.

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          Peter C

          Too harsh Analitik.

          I don’t think she belittled anyone. She referred them to read her blog. Very few did so.
          The Geothermal theory is not exactly FRINGE. It would be fine if the measurements were supportive. Unfortunately I do not think the measurements are supportive

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          • #
            Kalm Keith

            Peter,

            nobody has ever suggested that geothermal energy is not present.

            What is questionable in the extreme is creating a theory that it in some way balances “The missing heat” from some non existent greenhouse effect.

            It’s all a bit pointless and ill conceived with obvious emphasis on plugging values into equations taken almost at random from text books and no thought at all to the preparatory process analysis that’s essential for the concept being explored.

            The only positive point is that the posts appear to be trying to counter the concept of CO2 induced global warming; unfortunately many of the mistakes and misconceptions found in climate science also appear in the work in question.

            In other words, more thought and discipline are needed.

            KK

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              Peter C

              nobody has ever suggested that geothermal energy is not present.
              What is questionable in the extreme is creating a theory that it in some way balances “The missing heat” from some non existent greenhouse effect.

              Which is fine. Have you checked out her calculation yet?:

              12

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                Peter,
                I gave up when she mentioned perpendicular and orthogonal heat flows and as far as solving equations is concerned she is a top mathematician.

                The problem really is that the wrong equations are being used and a complete disinterest in looking at and defining the physical problem makes the mathematics pointless.

                A recent comment by Konrad really brought into focus the point I’ve been making about the gross misuse of the S-B equation.

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              • #

                Keith,
                What’s amazing is that you took absolutely no time to figure out how the 91 mW/m^2 value is computed.

                Geothermal data is available for many locations and DEPTHS. If you look at the data you will realize that the /m^2 is NOT what is emitted at the surface toward the atmosphere, but an artifact of values k and L.

                There is literally NO WAY that you COULD figure put what the emergent flux is by using a difference of temperatures at two depths multiplying by k and dividing by L. And despite this, you still believe 91 mW/m^2 is an emergent flux.

                For example, at 3 km depth, you can boil water. That’s really hot. But the conductive heat flux at 3km is small and also in mW/m^2. Your mW/m^2 can’t explain why water boils at that depth.

                The radiative flux is never diluted by a vertical component, but conductive flux IS.

                You need to compare like with like.

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          • #
            Analitik

            The way she presents the heat flow “equilibrium” is fringe, Peter . And I read her blog and followed the response of at least one other person who expressed issues with her equations (better than I could) and her response was belittling in a manner that was dismissive, as if it was below her to try and explain why she could set the boundary conditions that underpinned her theory.

            If that’s harsh judgment, so be it

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            • #

              Fringe? Belittiling?

              Interesting. Let’s take at a look at this thermal image:

              https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Z2tGx8BsP1Bvu9-VZUosIKUhOg9ZnipiM2vPdDAhoESGKKuzwwwZFI2GNgRhaemr9w

              What do we see? We see that the top and bottom temperature of liquid in this container are the same. The conductive heat flux (CHF) is therefore ZERO. But a ZERO CHF does not produce a ZERO emergent flux (EF).

              Despite the EMPIRICAL evidence, there are people that believe that you can set EF = CHF, using THEIR theory of thermodynamics, and calculate what the top temperature should be. THEIR theory predicts a STEEP temperature gradient through this container. Don’t deny this, THEY do expect a steep gradient. THEIR theory of conservation of heat flow produces a steep gradient.

              THEY think they are correct because they set up an equation that assumes conservation of heat flow (not emergy). THEY ridicule my theory, and yet it is my theory that produces the correct result as VERIFIED by experiment.

              I’m frustrated because my critics are in fantasy land. What more can I say?
              How can I be nice to people who are wrong yet believe they are right because they are properly following the misconception of others?

              53

      • #

        “I do have a problem with her claim that the radiative power of geothermal conduction is at right angles to the surface”

        Still true.

        Conductive Flux = k(Thot-Tcold)/L

        k is in units W/(m*K)
        L is in units m

        Conductive Flux ~ W/m^2

        m^2 have nothing to do with the emission surface area. Therefore you won’t find conductive heat flux EQUATED with radiative flux anywhere in a textbook. Nowhere!

        Despite any textbook evidence, you will find people doing exactly what can’t be done! They rationalize their actions by their own interpretation of textbook reading. Their interpretations “must” be correct. They have to be.

        53

        • #
          Kalm Keith

          So, in this new theory;

          Heat from the core at approximately 6,000 °C is looking longingly at nearby space where the very attractive temperature is approximately Minus 270.2 °C.

          The Temperature differential is 6,270 C°; a very significant “pull” factor.

          So off we go; the parcel of thermal energy has to negotiate getting from the molten core, through successive layers of cooler magma, then solidified magma, then numerous broken, disrupted, drawn down layers nearer the surface and finally ending at the ocean floor or sedimentary surface material.

          In the last few hundred metres, in some places away from volcanoes, it is possible to drill holes to take temperatures which indicate that it is colder near the surface. This cooling, which Zoe acknowledges, is evidence that thermal energy is moving to the colder surface albeit very slowly.

          Now this is the claim:

          “Therefore you won’t find conductive heat flux EQUATED with radiative flux anywhere in a textbook. Nowhere!

          Lifting stuff straight out of a textbook can be fraught with problems, flick over a few more pages?

          The fact that heat movement has been detected below ground level means conclusively that the very same amount of energy must be crossing the interface between Earth’s surface to the atmosphere or to the water in lakes and oceans.

          Direct contact by water or air removes heat by conduction and maybe in colder regions at night there’s some loss by IR radiation.

          Whatever, to say that Conductive Flux doesn’t equal Radioactive Flux above surface is simply misdirection or failure to read chapter two of the text.

          If heat transfer across the surface/atmosphere interface ceases then the earth will simply come to a uniform temperature throughout from core to surface.

          Travelling heat must equal heat loss at the surface whether by conduction or radiation.

          :-) KK

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            “The fact that heat movement has been detected below ground level means conclusively that the very same amount of energy must be crossing the interface between Earth’s surface to the atmosphere or to the water in lakes and oceans.”

            There in lies your problem: Heat != Energy.

            Temperature is average translational kinetic energy in one location.

            What is conductive heat flux (CHF)?

            CHF = k(Thot – Tcold)/L

            CHF is a DIFFERENTIAL of 2 kinetic energies at two different depths.

            You can’t compare a differential (CHF) to an absolute (emergent flux, EF).

            The law of conservation of energy does not mean you get to compare a difference of kinetic energies to one kinetic energy radiating.

            How is that not obvious?

            You can’t equate a heat flux to energy.

            “If heat transfer across the surface/atmosphere interface ceases then the earth will simply come to a uniform temperature throughout from core to surface.”

            That would be the case if density didn’t decrease with radius, as happens in the real Earth.

            Here is what happens when density is uniform:
            https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Z2tGx8BsP1Bvu9-VZUosIKUhOg9ZnipiM2vPdDAhoESGKKuzwwwZFI2GNgRhaemr9w

            Do you notice that EF != CHF?

            CHF = ZERO, EF = High

            “Travelling heat must equal heat loss at the surface whether by conduction or radiation.”

            Empirical evidence shows that to be false.

            How much longer will you ignore the empirical evidence?

            There is no such thing as the law of conservation of heat flow, as you literally suggest.

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    • #
      UK-Weather Lass

      I personally have not had a problem with ZoePhine’s presentations since they are proposed simply and with ready access to all the data and source code used, with an openness which is refreshingly different to complex models which obfuscate and confound with their wayward predictions.

      A GHG effect may delay cooling but how can it add heat and still be true to the laws of physics? If you cover yourself with a blanket because you are cold then you first have to warm the blanket up with your body until both are of similar temperatures and then your body can maintain that temperature more efficiently (i.e. doing less work) because the blanket is delaying cooling and needs less work from you to retain its heat. You and the blanket retain the ideal temperature for sleep doing less work and so you are more likely to sleep well. The efficiency of the blanket can be noted after it is discarded by observing how long it takes to lose all its heat but it doesn’t stay warm forever.

      Geothermal energy from the planet’s core has been noted in several not so fashionable takes on climate change including plate climatology (see http://www.plateclimatology.com) which is a fascinating and detailed study of how much energy is coming from beneath us and what the observable effects (historically and now) are. There is a lot of very useful information on the site mentioned explaining what is happening beneath the oceans and the Arctic and Antarctic and why it can help in explaining some causes and effects of climate changes.

      On the matter of solar and wind energy sources compounding the algorithms required to reliably provide baseload power it is good to see people at last expressing dismay at how much needless money (not to mention the valuable resources wasted) has been used up in a fanciful but ill thought through dream of reducing carbon emissions when we already had a guaranteed answer which involved the nuclear alternative on a much less damaging and dangerous basis. The Green camp might like to ask science to invest more heavily on research into an alternative battery that can deliver the storage capacity of, for example, a hydroelectric system. That wouldn’t be quite so wasteful of brains, time, energy, and cash.

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      • #
        Kalm Keith

        Hi Lass,

        As you might be aware I have found your past comments to be clear and useful.

        On this occasion I would be interested to know what you make of this comment:

        http://joannenova.com.au/2020/06/humans-do-ultimate-paris-lockdown-co2-hits-record-high-anyway/#comment-2335351

        Is there a clear meaning coming through?

        It seems to be a highly conceptualized analysis of something or other: can you make sense of it.

        Given that human origin CO2 is only about 4% of all atmospheric CO2, this fact alone makes the whole CO2 induced global warming extravaganza idiotic, but going into “fusing” carbon and oxygen molecules together and extrapolating to some imaginary point where all the oxygen is used up; isn’t that all a bit pointless, and worse.

        What do you think of that linked effort?

        :-)

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      • #
        Kalm Keith

        Quote;

        “This doesn’t negate what I said.

        If we fused carbon to the ~20% of our atmosphere that is oxygen, we would have 200,000 ppm CO2 and 0 ppm oxygen. Correct?”

        Another disconnected sciency hypothetical; correct?

        :-)

        22

      • #
        AndyG55

        “A GHG effect may delay cooling”

        Do you have any measured evidence of that?

        As a “weather lass” you should be aware that the atmosphere acts to COOL the surface from heat induced by solar energy.

        Please explain what sort of blanket does that.

        ie, please don’t use the “blanket” analogy, it is not relevant to any sort of reality.

        51

    • #

      Keith said:

      “which suggested that thermal energy could come from Earth’s core, be evident as a detectable thermal gradient with a few metres of the Earth surface/ocean interface but;

      There Was No Heat/Energy Flow to the atmosphere.

      That was the claim.”

      No, Keith that is NOT my claim. Perhaps you should first try to understand my claim, no?

      Here it is:
      https://phzoe.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/csrchf.png

      52

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        Yes, yes.

        I fully understand.

        I must go to your web site because you can’t summarize the idea because, from past experience it’s apparent that you don’t understand the proper context of the situations: you’ve just grabbed the nearest equation from some textbook.

        Sorry, all the best.

        12

        • #

          Summarizing my ideas at this site hasn’t worked for you either.

          Maybe it’s my critics who don’t understand the context of the situation before rushing to misinterpreting textbook theory and equations?

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          • #
            Kalm Keith

            Sadly Zoe there’s another practical reality outside of “textbooks and equations”.
            :-)

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  • #
    a happy little debunker

    ****Tulsa rally FACT Check****

    The Donald dared to call COVID19 the ‘racially charged’ term, Kung Flu.
    Combining the Chinese word Kung, meaning work or achievement – with the English common meaning of Flu (a highly contagious virus that affects the respiratory system).
    In this context ‘Kung Flu’ can be readily interpreted as a ‘Chinese achievement in highly contagious respiratory viruses’.

    ****The FINAL VERDICT on this FACT, checks out****

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    tonyb

    I thought this interesting. A very detailed analysis on covid 19 numbers

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/06/20/covid-19-understanding-the-numbers-coronavirus/

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      Greg in NZ

      And obviously no impact on more celestial matters, ie. yesterday’s winter solstice came and went and as far as I know we’re all still here.

      Same as it ever was: sunny, calm & clear with a lovely expected high of 19*C here, while down south there’s black ice on the roads with sub-zero frosts. Do ‘climate’ experts even know the word comes from ‘klima’ meaning angle, or degree of latitude?

      I’m guessing flat-earthers have no concept of latitude nor spherical objects, nor much else to be brutally honest. Only 6 months till summer, woohoo!

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        el gordo

        CO2 is rising monotonically, but there is no evidence that it has created more extreme weather.

        Around 1780 a humungous hurricane hit the Caribbean and took thousands of lives. Around the same time the Hudson and East Rivers froze solid, that is what I call extreme weather.

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  • #
    Peter C

    Victorian Health Department Fails its Citizens

    Easing of restrictions has been suspended in Victoria because of a recent increase in new cases.

    Meanwhile, Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews has cancelled further plans to ease restrictions in that state after a worrying spike in cases on Saturday.
    Twenty-five new cases were recorded in Victoria on Saturday, up from 13 on Friday, which the Premier largely attributed to a rise in families ignoring social distancing rules while having large gatherings.

    What exactly does he mean? I suspect that a few people with mild but active coronavirus disease attended these family gatherings and spread the infection.

    Most people are doing the right thing, but that is not enough. People with active disease must be isolated until they test negative. The health department know who they are but has not done more than issue public warnings.

    What is the public being told:
    1. Maintain 1.5m separation (probably not enough).
    2. Masks do not work (they probably do)
    3. Family gatherings of 5 are ok (why is it 5).
    4. New arrivals are doing quarantine in hotels (does seem to be working)
    5. BLM protests are allowed, despite breaching all the rules

    All this time known active infections are on self parole! That is not working and the Department needs to act on it right now.

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      RickWill

      I think the citizens (dingbats amongst us) who have failed the system and the rest of us.

      Did you see the the horrid video of Conor McKenna exhausting from both nostrils, spitting and dry coughing while at training. They claim he was asymptomatic – he looked crook to me.
      https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=279406909845237

      What we are seeing in Victoria is why the State needed to enforce home quarantine. There are simply too many careless individuals for lesser measures to be effective when the virus was spreading fast, testing was limited and contact tracing poor.

      The News media failed miserably giving endless coverage of the marches/ riots in Australia and overseas. These dingbats crave attention and the press gave them that in large doses. Using the BLM marches as an excuse to now be lax is just silly. The police were never going to stir the pot and make it worse than it already was. The media let down the nation by covering the marches.

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        Peter C

        Thanks Rick.

        I had not seen that. I agree that Conor M<cKenna does not look very well. Also there was a good shot of a blast of droplets which he expelled from one nostril!

        Conor, clearly was starting to suffer symptoms. He apparently went for testing soon after and was positive.

        I think this reinforces my point. Some one else who should have been isolated likely breached their parole.

        Health Department, Wake Up and Act.

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    Another Ian

    “Escalation begets escalation”

    “Many people — and especially those who live in Bristol — have discovered Newton’s Third Law of Statues. Put crudely, it amounts to ‘you wreck one of ours, we wreck one of yours’. ”

    https://catallaxyfiles.com/2020/06/21/escalation-begets-escalation/

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    Another Ian

    “Did the Swedish constitution prevent a major lockdown?”

    https://catallaxyfiles.com/2020/06/20/did-the-swedish-constitution-prevent-a-major-lockdown/

    “There are strong suggestions that the constraints on interstate movement in Australia violate the constitution as well.”

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      Bill In Oz

      The constitution was framed to prevent tariffs on goods or service being charged when entering one state from another.
      The framers of the Commonwealth constitution had NO other intention.

      The prevention of people moving from one state to another in the event of an emergency or any kind, is not mentioned.
      However the unwise wizards of the High court may indeed decide that there is a hidden, ‘secret’ meaning in the constitution which prevents the states exercising such a legitimate power.
      The wise wizards have done that before and could do so again.
      But frankly I hope they don’t.
      As it would raise the issue of “Who would enforce their decree ?”
      The Commonwealth with it’s under sized AFP ?
      And perhaps not wanting to anyway ?
      Or the armed forces in which event individuals from the states involved would be seriously personally conflicted.
      Maybe the wise wizards are wise enough not to open that Pandora’s Box ?

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        OriginalSteve

        I disagree.

        It says movement between the States, no where does it explicitly state its all about trade.

        This point effectively enables full freedom of movement :

        “…and intercourse among the States..”

        How do we define “intercourse”?

        https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/intercourse#synonyms

        “3: connection or dealings between persons or groups

        I like the example of if you allow free trade only, then commercial travelers have freedom of movement at all times across borders, but other professions don’t, which would fly in the face of the spirit of Constitution in this case.

        http://www8.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/cth/consol_act/coaca430/s92.html

        “Trade within the Commonwealth to be free

        “On the imposition of uniform duties of customs, trade, commerce, and intercourse among the States, whether by means of internal carriage or ocean navigation, shall be absolutely free.

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          Kalm Keith

          Sounds clear.

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          Bill In Oz

          Are you trying hard to be a wise wizard Steve ?
          If you’re right all sick infectious persons have complete constitutional freedom to move where they like & infect anyone they meet ?
          Sure sounds dopey to me.
          But lawyers can argue for anything.

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            OriginalSteve

            Not at all…I’m saying that you cant shut state borders for any reason – its constutionally illegal.

            Do we have rule of law or not?

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              Kalm Keith

              Exactly.

              And if the state governments did the right thing and had all known cases in quarantine then there would be no infected people crossing borders; by definition, they would be healthy travelers/workers.

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              yarpos

              There is a class of person that just loves the draconian clamp down, ban , abolish , shut the border etc. Its just the way they think. Dan is one of those, he has one tool and he sure as hell going to use it.

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          MP

          Nowadays it is trade in goods and services, my work is considered a service in which I claim and pay GST, I am unlawfully prevented from trading within the states.

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    el gordo

    Complex low over south east Australia.

    http://www.bom.gov.au/fwo/IDY65100.pdf

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    OriginalSteve

    Hmmm……uh oh…..remember how I have been saying that the globalists want a vacc ine only “solution”?

    Shutting down HCQ usage basically allows that.

    Read on….

    https://www.spectator.com.au/2020/06/bring-on-britains-corona-clowns/

    “The Recovery trial has steadfastly ignored Professor Didier Raoult and a string of countries that have implemented his protocol, early use of HCQ with Azythromycin in safe doses, despite the fact that, after treating 3,737 patients — the single largest study in the world —Raoult has lost only 0.6 per cent, while Horby and Landray are presiding over carnage —a fatality rate of 25 per cent.

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    OriginalSteve

    And an american view of lockdowns

    https://thefederalist.com/2020/06/16/research-finds-lockdowns-are-far-worse-for-health-and-lives-than-coronavirus/

    “Any medical therapy is supposed to be tested for both efficacy and safety. There have been several studies examining the effectiveness of the lockdowns in combating the spread of the COVID-19 virus, with mixed conclusions. So far, however, none of these studies or models have analyzed the safety side of the lockdown therapy.

    “As noted in an open letter recently signed by more than 600 health-care professionals, the public health costs from the lockdowns — described as a “mass casualty incident” are real and growing.

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    Richard Ilfeld

    In a very real sense, we may have become the first society that is too wealthy to function well; or at least haven’t figured it out.
    In a cursory thought experiment, I can’t readily think of a cultural revolution that didn’t feature the starving masses, either hordes from subsistance agriculture,
    or the proletariat from the cities.

    Our current troubles seem to be very much the anxieties of a troubled middle class, led by the well-to-do.

    The cohort of flag-kneelers at the heart of the US NFL controversy will each make more in a year than most of their followers in a lifetime.
    The ‘professors’ exhorting the crowds are doing so from sinecures far more lucrative and secure than the shopowners being burned out.
    The struggling masses marching for to me amorphous causes all seem, to have functioning mobile phones and wireless headsets whose price would feed a family of four for a week.
    I am seriously fashion challenged but I don’t think the brand names in some of the close ups come form the discount bin.
    The feckless “leaders” (this is a joke, right?) kneeling before the mob ‘serve’ an ill-gotten term or two before going on to a pension that 20 years in the military won’t get you.
    And the job title for the spokespeople on the chiron ar foreign to my experience of work: “activist”, “strategist”, “organizer”.

    Way too much in the way of money and assets going in, no accountability, and no useful workproduct coming out.

    You have to be really rich to tolerate this, and we are.

    And there are some areas of increased productivity, like computing, where we are gaining on things.

    But some of us, outside the urban centers of culture, see a closed shop with all inputs and fewer and fewer outputs that is eating it’s seed corn. We have a huge national
    debt; in the US the last few trillion, and in OZ the last few billions have gone to pay the salaries of the non-working. Speaking only for the US, too many like not working.

    But our national debt is not actually at 160,000 per family, nor will it be carried that way. Nor can , as some imagine, China call a bunch of bonds and crash us;
    And if the economy collapses and the banks own everything they own nothing — the part of small town economy that depended on a corporate employer placing a plant, then
    coldy exporting it for profit to China or Mexico looks like a failure , but outside of the Knowledge economy we still have 20MM people making things, 2MM poeple farming,
    3MM people mining logging and making energy, and more than an equal number symbiotically economically interacting with them.

    If the Dozen biggest US cities simply shut down and stopped producing and consuming, it’s not clear to me we wouldn’t show a net profit, as hideous as that may be to say.
    If we fully disengaged from China (but not the world) we would likely, actually be richer and more prosperous as we had to undertake a massive rebuilding and reconstruction exercise. “Demonstrations” would be less popular and attractive. There would be some shortages, and surpluses. We’d have to help some sectors through some short term pain.

    When I was young I was drafted into the military, to sent to a place where there was no fighting.
    If today’s problem is that the folks who grow our barley can’t sell it to China this year because they are proving to be disgustingly bad trade partners, that’s a better problem to be solving. COVID has really stirred the pot.

    A lot of folks in my cohort ended up dead or maimed. I both hope and believe that a large number in today’s cohort will participate in today’s struggle by having to actually find a profession a work for a living as we tighten our belts a bit. If that happens it’s a better outcome. I would submit it is the logical answer to those who are, in the streets, essentially demanding entitlements.

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      Kalm Keith

      Brilliant comment.

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      • #
        Bill In Oz

        The link does not support your statement EG
        But the link does have this interesting sentence in it
        “to encourage such inflows, the People’s Bank of China (PBOC) last month abolished the investment quota for qualified institutional investors, allowing them to bring in as much money as they like.”
        So previously it was not a free market but regulated.
        And now the CCP want more foreigners to invest their money in Chinese bonds which have a slightly higher interest rate.

        Ho hum… .

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      RickWill

      But our national debt is not actually at 160,000 per family, nor will it be carried that way. Nor can , as some imagine, China call a bunch of bonds and crash us;

      The US creates its own money. If China does not need to rollover bonds as they fall due then that is possibly a good thing for the US in the current circumstances. It means that China does not need to find a home for US dollars from an increasing trade imbalance. US simply pays out the bonds with newly created money. US can never go bust as a result of creating money.

      The question then becomes what is China going to do with those UD dollars. The only way they can get rid of it is to buy US land, factories, infrastructure, goods and services. All those mobile phones and big screen TVs made in China and sold in the US get traded for US hard assets like land and infrastructure.

      Fundamentally it means that Chinese citizens are more involved in the US economy and have an interest in it performing well. Chinese companies and citizens are big investors in Australian assets. They keep house prices buoyant. Can you blame wealthy Chinese for wanting to live in another country. This century, another half a million China born immigrants have arrived in Australia. China is by far the largest source of Australian immigrants in the last 20 years. An increasing proportion of Australia’s medical professionals have Chinese ancestors. Chinese immigrants bring a hard working, industrious attitude to their endeavours. They are good for any economy.

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    tom

    Went out for a few cold ones & a meal last night.
    2 social workers…they had a total of 10 of their
    cases over dose. 4 last week alone. They have never seen
    the carnage that state forced isolation has created.
    Add the family strain of lost income,job stability,
    has their case load exploding.

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    Analitik

    I welcome Lidia Thorpe’s selection by The Greens to take over the Senate seat vacated by Richard DiNatale. Being a full on lefty, LGBTIQ advocate, indigenous activist, hell bent on pushing through reform on the back of the BLM movement, she will highlight just how extreme The Greens are to the general electorate – something that DiNatale and his predecessor, Bob Brown, masked as seemingly fair minded, (& fair skinned) middle aged men.

    Now the electorate can make a properly informed choice about The Third Option in Australian politics.

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    • #
      James Murphy

      The Greens have full media support, including the ABC, so I am not sure that anyone will be well informed about them unless they are prepared to look for alternatives to the MSM. On the back of BLM, it will become a hate crime to disagree with anyone of indigenous heritage about anything, no matter how polite, cogent, and objective the rebuttal may be.

      On the plus side, Sarah Hanson-Young and Adam Bandt must both be extremely annoyed at missing out on the top job. Do I have a case of Schadenfreude? It seems I do.

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    RicDre

    To Solve Climate Change: “stringent eco-taxes …, wealth redistribution … a maximum income, a guaranteed basic income … reduced working hours”

    Central planning, rationing, price controls, punitive wealth taxes and wealth redistribution. The glorious future climate concerned scientists are planning for us.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/06/21/to-solve-climate-change-stringent-eco-taxes-wealth-redistribution-a-maximum-income-a-guaranteed-basic-income-reduced-working-hours/

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    RicDre

    Amazing Noctilucent Clouds

    One of the most extraordinary and beautiful sights this time of year are the delicate noctilucent clouds that can appear after sunset and before sunrise.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/06/20/amazing-noctilucent-clouds/

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    RicDre

    Sky News: Aussie Royal Commission to Investigate how Climate Activists “Hijacked” Forestry Management

    There is growing pressure on the Australian Royal Commission investigating Bushfires to investigate how greens in positions of authority allegedly hijacked forestry management, to frustrate efforts to protect property and lives by back burning, to manage forest fuel load.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/06/19/sky-news-aussie-royal-commission-to-investigate-climate-activist-hijacking-of-forestry-management/

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  • #
    RicDre

    Structural errors in global climate models

    Climate model sensitivity to CO2 is heavily dependent on artificial parameterizations (e.g. clouds, convection) that are implemented in global climate models that utilize the wrong atmospheric dynamical system and excessive dissipation.

    https://judithcurry.com/2020/06/20/structural-errors-in-global-climate-models/

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    RicDre

    Climate Advocates Grappling with the Gruesome Human Cost of Renewable Energy

    As calls for more renewables and a green Covid recovery mount, renewable energy advocates are facing uncomfortable questions about the vast quantities of raw materials required for their green revolution, and allegations of child slave labour which haunt the base of their specialty material supply chains.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/06/21/blood-batteries-climate-advocates-grappling-with-the-gruesome-extractive-price-of-renewable-energy/

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    RicDre

    Alex Epstein interviews Naomi Seibt on her fight against the German government

    From Alex Epstein, host of Power Hour: On this week’s (6/17) episode of Power Hour I interview Naomi Seibt, the 19-year-old German teenager who has been called “the anti-Greta” for her articulate and outspoken challenges to climate catastrophism.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/06/21/alex-epstein-interviews-naomi-seibt-on-her-fight-against-the-german-government/

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    dinn, rob

    You’ll be comforted to know that everything is under control:
    “We are committed to upholding international labor standards globally,” said Nike spokeswoman
    8-14-17 The campaign began quietly. Students studying abroad were told to return home. Many did, and their classmates didn’t hear from them afterwards. For those who needed extra incentive to get moving, police detained their families back home. Finally the ones who refused to comply were rounded up by force. China is seeking out and recalling members of its ethnic Uighur minority population scattered across the globe. https://www.chinafile.com/reporting-opinion/viewpoint/china-forcing-uighurs-abroad-return-home-why-arent-more-countries
    ……………………………………………….…….
    2-29-20 Along the side the facility resembles a prison. There are watchtowers with cameras pointed in all directions and barbed-wire fences atop the walls, which feature Communist Party propaganda posters extolling President Xi Jinping’s “China dream.” “All ethnicities are united as one family,” says one placard.
    There is a special police station equipped with facial-recognition cameras and other high-tech surveillance that workers must pass through when they enter and exit the factory.
    Uighurs are segregated from Han workers, both physically and by language, according to more than a dozen local merchants and workers who spoke to the Post about the situation inside the factory.
    “They don’t speak Mandarin, and we never have any interaction. We just happen to work in the same factory,” said one middle-aged Han woman as she left work for the day. “We have two cafeterias,” she said. “Chinese workers eat in one and Xinjiang workers go to a separate one. Uighur workers are allowed to wander around near the compound but have to return to their dorms later.”
    The workers live under the watchful eye of their cadre manager in dormitory buildings opposite the police station. Security at the factory is tight. Factory administrators told a Post reporter this was a Nike requirement — Nike inspectors were visiting that day — but locals said it was also to monitor the Uighur workers.
    “Some would say they use national-level security standards,” one of the street vendors said. “They keep a detailed account of the workers’ entries and exits, and they have to obey a strict schedule, coming to work or leaving the compound only at specific hours.”
    Taekwang did not respond to questions about whether the Uighurs were forced to work in the factory under threat of reeducation nor whether they could pray or observe religious practices while working at the factory….
    Asked about Uighur workers in the factory, Nike said that “we respect human rights in our extended value chain, and always strive to conduct business ethically and responsibly.” “We are committed to upholding international labor standards globally,” said Nike spokeswoman Sandra Carreon-John, adding that its suppliers are “strictly prohibited from using any type of prison, forced, bonded or indentured labor.”
    “The purpose of bringing in migrant Xinjiang workers (in addition to other migrant Han Chinese workers) is to offset local labor shortage, due to increasing number of competing industries for workers in our area,” Kim managing a Nike factory said in a statement.
    Uighur workers are afraid or unable to interact with anyone in this town, north of Qingdao, beyond the most superficial of transactions at the stalls or in local stores, vendors say. But the catalyst for their arrival here is well understood.
    “Everyone knows they didn’t come here of their own free will. They were brought here,” said one fruit-seller as she set up her stall. “The Uighurs had to come because they didn’t have an option. The government sent them here,” another vendor told the Washington Post.
    Kim Jae-min, chief executive of Taekwang, the factory’s South Korean parent company, said about 600 Uighurs were among 7,100 workers at the plant. Nike’s manufacturing map shows that the factory has 4,095 employees, of whom 3,445 are “line workers.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/china-compels-uighurs-to-work-in-shoe-factory-that-supplies-nike/2020/02/28/ebddf5f4-57b2-11ea-8efd-0f904bdd8057_story.html

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    Richard Ilfeld

    It is amazing how much we still don’t know, and how hard it is to sort out what we do know (facts) from what is reported.
    We are in something between a second wave of infection leading to Armageddon to the normal ebb and flow deterioration of a seasonal viral infection.
    It is either rather easy or impossibly difficult to contract, wearing a mask or not, social distancing or not. An awful illness perpetrated by a virus that is
    somehow sensitive to one’s political views.

    My guess at the basic problem is that it is no longer possible for a politician to tell the truth. You know, the basic: “here are my policies, elect me and I’ll do them,
    they’ll do more good than harm and we’ll all move forward together” approach. Instead they all seem to want to ride the knife edge of a big lie that fools as meany people as possible up to the day after the election, at which point they will say “never mind” and find a different big lie to take us to the next one.

    Heck, consider the basic premise of BLM. ‘Vote for me out of guilt for things you didn’t do but people who sort of looked like you did to the ancestors of people who don’t look
    like you and didn’t actually suffer but want you to be responsible for their problems so they don’t have to be.’ Distracting voters with pandemic fears prevents them from actually thinking BLM through, while BLM makes you ignore the notion that somehow we can make life better by shutting down our economies.

    These are snake oil salesmen, and I miss the tar and feathers.

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      Kalm Keith

      Richard,

      I seem to be repeating myself.

      Another really on target description of “The World as it Is”.

      It is so difficult to collapse all of the current rivers and tributaries of the modern self pity, hard done by, innocent victim, deserving of sympathy and “justice” memes into something as coherent as you’ve done.

      Describing a problem clearly gets us a long way down the track to fixing it.

      KK

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        Kalm Keith

        From other posts it seems that the cycle of stupidity has just about gone full circle and is about to bite its own behind.

        The Guardian, that purest of organisations, seems to be headed for more than a little of the treatment it has been endorsing for others with historical imperfections.

        We live in interesting times.

        KK

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    Slithers

    Information gathered from various sources.
    SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19.
    The difference between the Virus and the Disease.

    The Mainstream media and therefore the general public have some misconceived notions about the current pandemic often referred to as COVID-19. This document offers an explanation for the Medical Professionals, Mainstream Media, and the general public to clear up the issues surrounding the pandemic.

    The Virus SARS-CoV-2 is ‘Novel’ meaning it has not been seen before and is rather an unknown quantity. There is much debate about its origin into which very technical discussions regarding its Genome and possible lineage are being investigated vigorously elsewhere.

    The Virus when encountered by Humans tries to find a location for itself a suitable place where it can multiply. All viruses do that, they cannot replicate outside a host medium, be that a live specimen, or in a specialized petri dish.

    The virus SARS-CoV-2 finds and can attach itself to the human ACE2 receptor which is present in vast numbers on the outside of cells of many human organs. This is the first oversight of the Medical profession. As there are many ways that any virus can enter the human body. Infectious DISEASES like Influenza are THOUGHT to be exclusively spread by aerosol contact, breathing in virus laden air expelled by an existing and infectious host.

    The Disease labelled COVID-19 is a raspatory disease caused when the virus enters the human lungs (Alveolar) and lodges there to replicate. The effects are the same as with the start of an influenza infection, but take longer to progress and can and do become very serious in some people.

    Now information is hard to come by, but there is anecdotal evidence of people getting digestive disorders as early symptoms, they do not express the flu like symptoms. They sometimes get those later, MUCH later!

    This brings me to the recent information out of China regarding the recent outbreak in Beijing and the virus being found on the preparation boards used to process Salmon!

    Now some old history, in 1948 I contracted Polio, spent 6 weeks in hospital, the local outbreak was traced to the local swimming pool, the only one for miles around and very popular, but the epicentre of the local cluster of polio sufferers. The Polio Virus was found to be in the often very wet wooden laths that made the changing room benches. Those benches were removed and replaced with metal ones there was some serious disinfections used and the outbreak wound down and stopped.

    Do you see the reason for this history lesson, Wet or damp Wood can sustain viral loads for some longer time than virus particles as an aerosol, Plastic preparation boards are not much better and become criss-crossed with groves made into their once smooth surfaces.

    This then suggest rather strongly that the virus was being carried around upon the prepared food that did NOT require cooking! From a newly infectious host to the food preparation board and from there to the prepared food. It is highly probable that the infection is expelled by infected host with the COVID-19 disease.

    The virus entered the new host via the mouth and lodged in the gut where it found ACE2 receptors on cells in which to reside and replicate. The Hosts auto-immune system would soon be waging a low level war against this invader and a long incubation period occurs until the virus, note it is NOT COVID-19 at this time, overcomes some cells and releases its new cohorts some of which enter the blood stream and these can then find their way into the hosts lungs and become a COVID-19 infection. Once into the blood stream the virus can lodge in any convenient ACE2 receptor on any cell in the human body. In this way the original Virus infection may visit several organs before reaching the lungs. Thus, the original infection in the Gut can slowly spread into other organs before reaching the lungs and causing the flu like symptoms. During the initial 14 day quarantine the virus replicates in the gut eventually spreading to secondary organs where it also takes 14 day to mature to replication state.

    This is probably good news in as much that only when the virus reaches the hosts lungs and after an incubation period become infectious via aerosol’s expelled by coughs and sneezes.

    It is bad news regarding quantifying the true time period between original infection and being infectious.

    This silent long incubation period answers many of the puzzles around SARS-COV-2 infections and tests that show positive from Asymptomatic hosts long after period of quarantine like the Essendon Footballer in Australia.

    It would therefore seem that mandatory testing and repeat testing of everyone is required of those who had contact with other hosts. It also raised the question of cold foods that come in wet or damp containers and prepared outside the home.

    There is then the rather large problem of where the other freshly minted Gut Virus cohort goes, out and into the sewerage system where there are many nutrients and possible hosts. A task being investigated by some.

    A monumentally difficult task.

    Names will be needed for diseases in hosts who have SARS-COV-2 infections in other organs as there are many that have the ACE2 receptor as part of their cell make-up.

    It I possible that SARS-COV-2 has become endemic in many countries.

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    Orson

    According to the NHS, between one-third and one-half of ICU Covid-19 patients will experience long-term, if not lifelong, debilitation, with a wide variety of health impairments. The Daily Telgraph has the story (via stuff.nz.co). The details are sobering, if not stunning.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300041080/coronavirus-scars-of-covid19-could-last-for-life-say-doctors

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