JoNova

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Freedom is closed borders, crowd limit now “30,000″

Western Australians will be allowed have 30,000 spectators at the biggest venue in the state this weekend. Phase four means half packed stadiums, nightclubs bars and gyms are all back in action. Venues will be allowed to pack in people to the two square meter rule. Phase five starts July 18th where all rules are dropped, bar two — the state border will stay shut and so will remote indigenous communities.

The state border is the reason nearly everything else within it, is close to normal.

Coronavirus crisis: Stage four of roadmap allows 30,000 fans to attend football at Optus Stadium from this Saturday

 The West Australian: “Big events at these venues can be organised over the next few weeks. Western Australians will hold the largest crowds in the country by far.

Suddenly open borders doesn’t look so appealling to NSW

All states in Australia closed their borders, except for New South Wales and  Victoria. For the last month the states with the most virus to share have been demanding the states without virus open up their borders. But after 160 new infections in Victoria this week, the Premier of NSW is now advising constituents not to visit Melbourne or the hot-spots in Victoria “unless it’s absolutely essential“. Other members of the NSW government are “not ruling out” travel restrictions. Queensland, which was thinking of opening up its borders, is now rethinking. The irony is that if NSW closed borders to Victoria, they might be able to travel everywhere else in Australia so much sooner.

This is the paradox of  border control: the smaller the units, the more expensive it is to impose, but it can be shorter, faster and much more flexible. In the post-covid world, hopefully we will see stronger national borders that can be quickly opened and closed as needed.

In Western Australia closing the borders with an enforced two week quarantine was the most effective virus control, but they weren’t closed soon enough. There was still community spread from unknown sources which meant some domestic restrictions were necessary.

Cases are still arriving from overseas, but they are stopped by the two week quarantine.

Western Australia Infections, Coronavirus, Graph.

In Western Australia closing the borders made the biggest difference. Source: Dept Health WA

According to the graph the last case of unknown source was the 6th of June (which doesn’t sound remotely distant enough to safely start filling stadiums). But it may be a misprint or error, as Health Dept press releases at the time appeared to account for all cases.  About 120,000 tests have been done. Currently there are only about 500 tests a day for Covid in the state at the moment, but test positivity is obviously “low”.

Good luck to Victorians.

Why is almost no one talking about the biggest mistake in national policy for decades? Open Borders.

The News


PS: Tonight on the 7:30 Report was the first time I’d heard anyone (other than me) say say that we should have closed borders earlier. That was former National Treasurer, Peter Costello, just wistfully.  8mins 50.

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Freedom is closed borders, crowd limit now "30,000", 8.4 out of 10 based on 40 ratings

140 comments to Freedom is closed borders, crowd limit now “30,000″

  • #
    Orson

    How is New Zealand managing to control the Covid19 virus threat? Here’s a first-hand account of the 14-day quarantine by an Aussie, dubbing it snarkily like “5-star prison” experience:
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/419573/quarantine-australian-style-a-five-star-prison-that-takes-its-toll

    What’s most needed is implementing what works, as in Western Australia, and improving virus controls. Given the continuing unseriousness in Victoria, we seem a long way from that, sadly.

    81

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      1: Thanks Jo. I was wondering how things were progressing in WA.
      Looks like WA is going back to normal life from next Saturday.
      Enjoy your freedom to live a protected normal life !

      2 : I hope that here in South Australia, exactly the same outcome happens soon.
      After all here in SA , we’ve been ‘zero’ new infections for 26 days.
      The one new infection back 26 days ago was an incoming overseas traveller
      Being allowed into SA without the complete 14 days quarantine ( in Melbourne).
      She was allowed to travel to Adelaide after just 7 days
      And tested positive on arrival.
      ( That is exactly what happened in NZ last week by the way.)
      So here in SA there is NO local transmission at all
      And our government should adopt the same position as WA
      Closed state borders and normal life within the state.

      3: Northern Territory has gone gone 55 days without any infection.
      Seems logical that they will be doing the same as WA.

      4: Tasmania has now gone 35 days without any new infections
      So I suggest they can do the same :
      Normal life within the state and closed borders to arrivals from elsewhere.

      5: Queensland & New South Wales now seem to have
      Arrived at zero local transmission as well.
      The new cases there are inbound arrivals from overseas.

      6 Victoria however has not eliminated local transmission.
      It is in the midst of . a second wave.
      Vic Health are not releasing information for ‘privacy’ reasons.
      So we do not have any accurate information about who is getting infected and exactly where.
      But I saw Mikakos ( the minister ) say on TV yesterday
      That Vic Health must improve it’s ability to communicate with migrant communities/families.
      From that I guess that most of the locally transmitted Covid 19 cases
      Are in recently arrived migrant communities
      With low levels of English understanding.
      ( I also saw a press release from Vic Health that only
      ONE person in the recent infections had attended the BLM protest 2 weeks ago.
      If this is true the accusation made by people here
      That the protest demos were the cause the second wave,
      Is false..

      718

      • #

        I honestly can’t read that Bill. You’d get more green thumbs if you wrote in sentence.

        156

      • #

        Bill
        There were at least three cases who were at the BLM rally. But reading the daily media reports from Vic Health suggests most of these outbreaks are extended families, schools, security guards at a quarantine hotel. We don’t know where these families got their virus. If they immigrants are they more likely to be connected with the rally? Don’t know.

        https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-18/coronavirus-cases-in-victoria-climb-blm-protester-positive/12368000
        Press releases: https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/media-hub-coronavirus-disease-covid-19

        But how many protesters were tested? How would we trace that? If a young protestor was asymptomatic, didn’t get tested, worked at a school, or just walked through a store/or bus and gave one person from one of these extended families a virus? Impossible to trace unless they both had the Ap.

        As I said, perhaps the virus didn’t spread wildly at the rally because it was outdoors, but the rally itself blew away community compliance and good will for strict social distancing. It popped the bubble that we are all in this together and that people who breach the rules will be fined. The relaxation of social distancing at that point unfortunately for Victoria was too early.

        Perhaps it is a coincidence that the surge came just after the rallies, or perhaps it isn’t.

        172

        • #
          Bill In Oz

          Hi Jo, Well the figures are now updated. And now there are 5 known diagnosed cases of Covid 19 who were prtesting the other week at the BLM rally. But also only one of these 5 is associated with the family clusters in Melbourne. I read this somewhere and did not note the source. ABC maybe or News.com more likely.

          The interesting bewildering thing is that all these 6 “LGA’s’ , where there are clusters, are huge with large areas and diverse populations with many different suburbs and different demographics.. And for privacy reasons Vic Health is not saying which suburbs. So it is impossible to work out where the clusters are centered and which communities are most at risk.

          That leads e to think “Who are they protecting ” & Why ?

          75

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            What are the odds that some element have created a new problem that means the Victoristan Commissar has to lock everyone up again?

            This is a game designed to slowly strangle society…doubt it not…..

            But the other thought is we cant keep playing this game…..in, out, in , out…..

            Maybe the answer is to let it “controlled burn” its ways through a suburb at a time in a controlled manner, until everyone has had it, and is over it.

            82

            • #
              Melbourne Resident

              O-Steve – so you think people in my age group (70s) should be allowed to die? We have pretty much complied with every requirement and isolated ourselves. Our social activities are nil and our family (5) have only visited once after restrictions were lifted. It seems you would rather give up and put everyone’s lives and/or health at risk. Good-on-yer

              45

              • #
                OrignalSteve

                No, never said that.

                Covid19 is now a political tool – perhaps the virus is now not as bad as it has been and is now being exploited by the Left who anticipate keeping us in a state of perpetual paralysis so our economy is destroyed.

                Kind of like the Blitz without the bombs.

                Its a tough call – with plenty of hydroxychloroquine on hand, it could be a managable risk. The alternative is to spend the rest of our days in playing “hunt the virus” forever.

                I guess its also a good way to make people desperate for a vacc ine…..

                DO you have a better workable suggestion that allows life to get back to where it was pre-pandemic?

                43

              • #
                Bill In Oz

                That makes the blog host, Jo a real ‘leftie’ eh Steve
                So what are you doing commenting here on a Leftie Blog ?
                :-)

                04

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                MR,

                Don’t be so worried. The perception people have of the Virus here in Australia is one derived from the politically inspired view of things and really, politicians only care about one thing; themselves.

                We have all suffered the deprivation that you’ve been through but it doesn’t mean that the lockdown has been a good approach to combating the problem.

                Some countries have immediately jumped on outbreaks and isolated them. This quarantine process is very successful but politicians here won’t use it and apply the community destroying lockdown because they can’t be bothered to get sensible advice.

                When modern politicians “lead” by responding to the latest public opinion poll we are all doomed to suffer in so many ways.

                Of course the damage can be painted over with remedies like “jobbykeeper” and the national debt won’t be made public until after the next election, so it’s all O.K. for the moment.

                Unfortunately, we’re all in this together.
                The boat to nowhere.

                KK

                20

              • #
                MP

                So this is about you, have you gained financially from this, bonus cheques, pension increase.
                I am not of the age this is a concern to medically, I have been prevented from working, I get no support from the government and am not even allowed to access my super. I have zero income but still have bills to pay, I am lucky I am able to ride this storm for a while, many do not have this ability.
                My father was to start Chemo just as this began, it was cancelled to save you, he had 3 months without chemo, 18 with.
                We now have him with full time care, his days are nearly over, my mother is a wreck as they have been together since their teens, two lives destroyed, is that a good enough sacrifice for you. I understand that there must be sacrifices, and have come to terms with it.
                Lock yourself up if you want but do not destroy me or my way of life for your own selfish gains, I always knew we were not in this together, but to read continuously “you just want to kill old people” when no one has ever said that is just playing the victim card. You are not a victim.

                You need to save yourself and I need to be able to save myself. How about you isolate from us and let the rest of us get back to living, join in when you feel its safe. Or sell all your stuff and pay my bills, then we will be in this together, cause all I am hearing is those with nothing to lose telling me I need to lose everything.

                NO

                21

              • #

                MP. Thanks for describing your situation. It is indeed unfair that some people have sacrificed so much more than others (especially public servants).

                Some kind of restrictions are needed in Victoria right now, but I would have thought that cancer patients could be looked after much better than that.

                The sorry truth is that it was incompetence and weakness that is causing so much pain now. Incompetence in managing a fairer system of compensation and weakness that almost all political leaders were too scared to speak freely on the new political cult that put’s its own power-seeking above the health of the people it claims to protect.

                20

              • #
                MP

                I am so furious at MR’s statement I just had to delete a small novel as it was vile stuff.

                Thats the people we are being pulled apart to save.

                Actually profiting from other peoples demise and telling me (I take it personally) I should be grateful it can live, then stating the greatest hardship it suffered was “could not see the kids”. All the while accusing me of wanting him dead while this is his wish for me and my family.

                What were these last four months, the narcissists holiday.

                I will stop there, as my head is heading south again.

                10

            • #
              Sceptical Sam

              Or dead.

              11

          • #
            Bill In Oz

            The answer has always been what Jo originally suggested back in early February.
            Stop importing it. Control the airlines bring in infected passengers. And quarantine all in bound travellers.

            Having not done that the answer is to stop people travelling & meeting within Australia and within the states.. As TdeF used to say this virus falls apart if it cannot replicate itself in new victims.. Most of Australia has achieved this. But in some parts of Melbourne people have kept on moving around and meeting while infected. And the virus enjoys the opportunity of infecting new victims.

            Your ‘slow burn’ strategy is just another way of being friendly to this infectious virus. But most people do not want that.If fact the mob that hang about here on Jo’s blog as such a tiny tiny minority of the Australian people it is not funny.

            26

        • #
          mareeS

          It seems to have an ethnic community base, but Victorian will not say so.

          Meanwhile we on the east coast are not able to visit our son in WA without quarantine. He is missing us badly as a FIFO miner in the Pilbara, and one of his team,committed suicide at the weekend in a bad way.

          If our son came back east for a visit to our family and his friends, the quarantine in WA would place his job in danger, so we are having to consider a stay of maybe months in the West to be of support.

          These are the hidden issues in border closures. Skype and the phone can only do so much.

          30

  • #
    GD

    if NSW closed borders to Victoria, they might be able to travel everywhere else in Australia so much sooner

    Great idea!

    Close the NSW/Victorian border, let the rest of Australia get back to work, and watch Daniel Andrews squirm.

    WA can stay closed; as a sweetener, give them their GST back and watch the mendicant states squirm.

    160

    • #
      GlenM

      Victoria is infectious in more than one way. This we know. I reckon since Federation is a shambles I suggest we boot the commies and bludger state(SA) and let the sandgropers do their own thing. After all they sucked on the eastern states for most of history until Lang Hancock came along and got all smug. Now you have Twiggy…..

      113

      • #

        WA is biggest exporter in Australia

        link

        Of the $470 billion worth of goods and services Australia exported last financial year, WA’s share was by far the greatest of any State or Territory, accounting for a staggering 36.5 per cent ($171.4 billion). NSW and Queensland were a distant second with 22 per cent each. Victoria was responsible for just 12 per cent.

        WA accounts for almost a third (32 per cent) of the country’s total trade. The State’s exports account for 48 per cent of Australia’s total exports.

        We are the main minerals and petroleum exporting region of Australia and produces a significant proportion of commodities nationally and globally.

        It was responsible for 99 per cent of Australia’s iron ore production last year — … 32 per cent of the world’s iron ore production. WA is also the biggest gold producer…

        75% of people in NSW thought their own state was the largest exporter.
        WA’s decision to keep its mines open amid coronavirus may have saved Australia’s economy link

        123

        • #
          AndyG55

          What are SA and Tassie’s share of exports? ;-)

          60

          • #
            Bill In Oz

            Go look it up Andy. But gold, copper, uranium and iron ore are major exports from SA.
            So are agricultural exports like wool, wheat, barley, canola, fava beans, dairy, wine, citrus fruits and even feed hay..
            And I suspect that a large part of Thomas Foods meat production at Murray Bridge is exported.
            We pay our way & a bit more !

            37

            • #
              AndyG55

              With an overly LARGE share of the GST, of course you do ;-)

              20

            • #
              AndyG55

              And let’s not forget.. submarines ! ;-)

              20

              • #
                MP

                I believe the Chinese government hacked into our government servers (with zero evidence shown) to get the blue prints of our coal fired submarines or have they been upgraded to run on whale oil, which explains why we are netting whales in QLD.

                I laugh at the Hack claim cause the hack itself would put more knowledge into the government system then they would ever get out.

                00

        • #
          peter

          NSW and QLD have kept their coal mines operating. That’s saved Australia’s economy too. You might need that black stuff to make something useful out of all that red dirt? Lol

          30

    • #
      yarpos

      Gladys has her look squirrel!! opportunity here, lock down the borders, the peril of VIC!

      Its almost like the Ruby Princess and Newmarch house never existed.

      I guess we take our holier than thou opportunities as they arise.

      91

  • #
    PeterW

    Authoritarian governments have killed 100 million of their own people in the last century – that is not counting wars. Mostly “for your own good”, because the decision-making power is in the hands of politicians, bureaucrats and “experts” who are insulated from the consequences of their rulings.

    Remember the old saying; When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail”. ? The tool of government is regulation, taxation and punishment.. When we demand that government “do something”, these are the things that we get….. and it is far easier to let loose the monster than it is to put him back in his box.

    Oh…. and for those who want to argue that “it is only the economy, live are more important”, poverty kills more people.

    262

    • #
      el gordo

      Saving lives was politically correct and Morrison acted decisively. The economy will need rejiging and there will be winners and losers as the free enterprise model kicks back into first gear.

      Australians love their freedoms and we have a democracy, so obviously restrictions will ease in due course because politicians want to stay in power. Infrastructure spending should get the economy moving at a steady pace.

      46

      • #
        PeterS

        You miss the point. There is now no crisis and the borders should have been reopened already.

        135

        • #
          el gordo

          This is a states matter and cannot be rushed, but I imagine they might introduce cluster control and suburban lockdowns will become the norm, allowing borders to reopen.

          “[Victoria] had 815 more deaths for March and April than its five-year median which was nearly half of all Australian excess deaths during that period,” Professor Olivier said. “On the other hand, NSW had fewer than expected deaths for those months.”

          ‘Without these Victorian deaths, Australia’s 2020 death line would track much closer to the expected line. In NSW, Tasmania and WA, 2020 deaths track close to what is expected.’

          ABC News

          410

          • #
            Serp

            Pity it’s from the ABC; one is tempted to request a second source but then recall the Steele dossier…

            42

          • #
            PeterW

            If the evidence suggests that borders should have reopened already, then the problem is not “rushing”, but procrastination.

            Caution can be good. Paralysis, not so much.

            00

            • #

              All businesses in WA — bar ones that need visitors over the border — will get the chance to operate at normal levels very soon. And if West Australians spend their Bali money inside WA, even those businesses will get some help.

              States with open borders though must wait til the slowest ship in the race has caught up.

              If you like small business why would anyone prefer to have a constant running virus which scares off customers when you could just get rid of this in weeks and get back to work?

              10

          • #
            PeterW

            [Duplicate]

            00

      • #
        MP

        3.5 million people on Job keeper. Job keeper is just another line at the unemployment office but instead of giving directly to the unemployed its funnelled through the employers to distribute.
        The two lines totalled are depression numbers.

        How many times must we be told this is the new normal before we believe its the new normal. We have had none of our rights returned, all we got was a longer leash then told this is the new normal. The carrot was pulled just as we were about to grab it
        Funny how everyone who agree’s with these unlawful acts are the ones who loose nothing, got a couple of cheques and a pay increase for absolutely nothing, no extra hardship.

        Last post someone posted the Flu numbers for 2019 and 2020 to-date, if that does not open your eyes nothing will.

        Keyboard economics and wishful thinking add up to nothing.

        142

        • #
          MP

          Reposted from Chris Gillham,

          To be a bit more specific, Australia had 30,568 flu notifications in May 2019 and 228 in May 2020 – a 99.3% reduction.

          The winter flu season is upon us so flu numbers should be rising. Australia had 57,938 flu notifications in June 2019 and 89 so far in June 2020 – a 99.8% reduction.

          Per 100,000 population, the flu notifications were:

          Jan 2019 : 27.3
          Jan 2020 : 27.9

          Feb 2019 : 28.7
          Feb 2020 : 28.7

          Mar 2019 : 44.9
          Mar 2020 : 23.6

          Apr 2019 : 74.8
          Apr 2020 : 1.2

          May 2019 : 122.3
          May 2020 : 0.9

          June 2019 : 231.9
          June 2020 : 0.4 (so far)

          The May 2020 per capita rate was the lowest since 2007 and the June 2020 per capita rate so far is the lowest since 2004.

          Looking at 66 other notifiable diseases excluding influenza, Australia had 24,437 notifications in May 2019 and 15,762 in May 2020 – a 35.5% reduction.

          Australia had 21,059 notifications of these diseases (including everything imaginable including hepatitis, salmonella, typhoid, meningococcal, chlamydia, syphilis, measles, dengue fever, malaria) in June 2019 and 7,616 so far in June 2020 – a 63.8% reduction.

          The only disease that’s increased quite sharply comparing those two months with last year is Ross River virus, presumably because they didn’t order a lockdown among the mosquitoes.

          Globally with influenza, the World Health Organisation’s FluNet monitoring has 11 countries that have updated to week 24 ending 8 June 2020 (Australia, Canada, Chile, Denmark, Iceland, Mexico, Poland, Russia, Singapore, Thailand, United Kingdom). Last year from week 14 to week 24 they had cumulatively reported 20,649 positive laboratory influenza tests. This year from week 14 to week 24 they had cumulatively reported 1,574 positive flu tests – a 92.4% reduction.

          WHO member countries can be tardy in their reporting but there are 17 countries with positive test results from week 14 to week 23 ending 1 June 2020 (Australia, Cambodia, Chile, China, Denmark, Iceland, Japan, Mexico, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Russia, Singapore, South Africa, Thailand, United Kingdom, United States). Last year from week 14 to week 23 they had cumulatively reported 61,997 positive laboratory influenza tests. This year from week 14 to week 23 they had cumulatively reported 2,620 positive tests – a 95.8% reduction.

          An AMA report a few days ago noted that “a measles outbreak that was lapping at Australia’s shores earlier this year has been stopped in its tracks by border closures to address the COVID-19 pandemic”, with no new cases since February. The looming outbreak was highlighted by a “measles outbreak in Samoa between September 2019 and January 2020 which resulted in more than 5,700 cases and more than 80 deaths, mostly in children aged under 5 years”.

          Unfortunately, it seems that Australia’s media has forgotten that there are diseases other than COVID-19, several potentially lethal among different age groups, so the only people aware that the lockdown has had a life-saving silver lining beyond just COVID-19 are readers of Jo’s blog.

          91

      • #
        Annie

        We have a democracy? Some cynicism about that here in the Peoples Republic of Woketoria/Victoriastan. The areas with the virus should be contained properly, not the rest of the state which has been clear for many weeks, let alone most of the state which saw no infection whatsoever.

        131

        • #
          yarpos

          Dan could have taken some lessons from WA in regionalising and tailoring restrictions by regions, but that would require thinking and the public service effort.

          Dan could also have taken some lessons from the failure of wind power in SA and the success of coal power in QLD, but that would require setting aside your personal virtue signalling and regressive dogma.

          171

        • #
          PeterW

          Annie…
          Problem for Vic is that the rural areas that are ticked off because they are restricted without having enough wuflu to justify restrictions, don’t vote for Chairman Dan anyway…

          60

    • #
      PeterS

      Spot on. Time for a class action suits to sue the states before it’s too late and they become fully pledged dictatorships.

      101

    • #
      RickWill

      The tool of government is regulation, taxation and punishment.

      The list is incomplete. I have seen a lot of people on this blog complain about all the easy money, newly created by governments so those people normally employed in non-essential activities could remain fed and housed while quarantining for the common good.

      So your list of government tools should include “money creation for survival needs”; often referred to as government safety net.

      Taiwan remains the gold standard in term of pandemic response but Australia has done OK. NT and WA can take great pride in where they are. WA kept the iron ore tap at full bore throughout their period of pandemic. It appears the internal fight for WA is done and they just have to keep the state clean until the rest of the world catches up.

      62

      • #
        PADRE

        A key element not mentioned is ‘fear’. If people can be made fearful, they are easier to control (regulate).

        71

      • #
        PeterW

        RickWil.

        Government does not create money. It merely borrows it from future generations who will pay for it through their taxes.

        30

    • #
      Brenda Spence

      Most West Australians are very happy with the way the state has been managed, thank you.

      25

      • #
        Bulldust

        You speak for most sandgropers then? Or are you referring to a politically-sponsored poll?

        41

        • #
          Brenda Spence

          Everyone Ihave spokento for the last 3 months, and that is a lot of people.

          22

          • #

            Surveys here show 90% want the borders shut.

            McGowans popularity running at 89%.

            Libs in WA don’t stand a chance at the coming election in March. They have made themselves irrelevant. They appear incompetent. Who is pulling their strings demanding the borders be open so we can fly in infections and “redo a lockdown”?

            10

        • #
          Brenda Spence

          Everyone I have spoken to for the last 3 months, and that is a lot of people.

          40

      • #
        MP

        Brenda I know a few and you are right, got one from QLD stuck in Perth and he would vote for your prem as PM.

        00

  • #
    Ian1946

    Close the NSW/VIC border, isolate the Socialist workers paradise and let the rest of the country get back to work. O.T. But I just watched a video from Atlanta on their first Cop free night, a lawless cesspit.

    162

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    Too little too late …

    Chief Medical Officer Brendan Murphy has pleaded with Black Lives Matter protesters to stop mass gatherings after it was revealed a slew of new infections were linked to the radical activists.

    https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6166258300001?utm_source=Sky+News&utm_campaign=Breaking+News&utm_term&utm_content&utm_medium=twitter

    It’s almost as if it wasn’t for the Ruby Princess and lack of law enforcement for BLM, we wouldn’t have the draconian measures.

    Is riot season over, or do we go back to pandemic mode , or wait for the government/UN to make up something new and different?

    141

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Travis, that link does NOT support your assertion.
      that ‘a slew of new infections were linked to the radical activists.”
      THREE persons who attended the protests have tested positive.
      And one of them is part of a Covid 19 cluster.

      So this statement is false.
      Go watch or read it again or was it your intention to spread false news ?

      PS A lot of being done in Victoria now. with lots of contact tracers
      from SA, NT & WA being moved to Victoria to help find all the contacts..
      Maybe with help from interstate Vic Health will get the act together ?

      212

  • #
    Robber

    The Melbourne coronavirus spike is concentrated on a growing number of economically disadvantaged communities where English is often a second language or rarely spoken.
    In March, the virus was spread in Victoria by wealthy travellers returning from the ski fields in the US and Europe, but now there are six local government areas where the government is most concerned. Those areas are Hume, Casey, Brimbank, Moreland, Cardinia and Darebin, with varying degrees of ethnicity and income.
    Languages spoken in those areas include Arabic, Turkish, Vietnamese, Punjabi, Italian, Chinese.
    In Brimbank and Hume more than 50% of the population speak a language other then English.
    They also happen to be areas involved in Labor’s branch stacking scandal.

    200

    • #
      el gordo

      There are also between 50,000 to 100,000 illegal guest workers in Australia.

      ‘Critically, unlawful migrant workers are also reluctant to access community support – for any reason – due to fears they may be reported to immigration authorities and then detained and deported. My research found this group will actively avoid any contact with formal service providers from police to health care workers.’ Conversation

      100

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        That’s an interesting statement EG.
        Do you have a link to that research ?

        13

      • #
        RickWill

        Dan has threatened employers with $10,000 fines for requiring employees, able to work from home, to turn up at an office. On the other hand there is no penalty for an employee, testing positive for the virus, turning up for work because they do not get paid sick leave. The latter is a factor in spreading the virus in one of the Victorian groups.

        The pandemic highlights the myriad of factors that makes self-quarantine extremely challenging for some.

        70

        • #
          Bill In Oz

          Yes Rick, this is a key factor. There are lots of recent migrants in casual jobs with little of no safety net if they are sick or infected with Covid 19.
          So they turn up for work as if nothing was wrong.

          The casual job model which has been promoted by the various employer groups Is designed to lower real wage costs
          But it also has massive risks. This pandemic has revealed one of those risks.

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            MP

            That’s an interesting statement Bill.
            Do you have a link to that research ?

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              Bill In Oz

              Personal experience as a farm manager employing workers on a intense horticulture/orchard farm.I employed only those with a visa which allowed them to work.
              But I was deluged at times by others seeking employment who were on tourist visas. On a couple of occasions I had to order people off the property who did this persistently.
              Desperate I guess.

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                MP

                So no data.
                Thats always been the way with farms and why we put signs on the gate that say no work available.
                Tends to pick up during a depression though.

                Thanks for the civil response.

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                Peter C

                So no data.

                Actually you asked for a link!
                Bill responded with his personal experience, which did seem to be relevant to the discussion (ie workers turning up to work because they do not get paid otherwise).

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                MP

                That was a copy paste from Bills comment above.

                its an opinion, I agree and I agree with.

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      yarpos

      methinks the timing of the end of Ramadan and the surrounding celebrations may have had a role to play as well

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    A quotation from Lord Sumption’s piece referring to the UK government response but could by equally applied to Australia):

    “These people have no idea what they are doing, because they are unable to think about more than one thing at a time or to look further ahead than the end of their noses. Yet they wield awesome power. They are destroying our economy, our cultural life and our children’s education in a fit of absent-mindedness.”

    See https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8443747/LORD-JONATHAN-SUMPTION-people-no-idea-theyre-doing.html

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    Gary

    Umh ? 30000 people lined up at 2 m intervals. Line up now for next weeks match.

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    • #

      Do they all materialise at once to the one line in the stadium. Um?

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        MP

        Don’t know GA, but I tend to want to get in and see the game I lined up for. They have starting times.
        Guess you could get there a day early.

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          Let’s divide this more accurately to get the length of queues. First people do not go to games singly. Or all at once – let’s space them over the hour at one minute intervals before the game. Or at one gate so let’s put them into ten gates each of which has 6 lines (modeled from MCG and Manuka).

          30000 divided by 2 and 10 and 6 and 60 = 25m/line

          25m is 50 people who need to be processed/minute/line for the lines to clear if 30,000 tickets are sold.

          The other aspect here is that the venue will sell tickets with strict instructions for gates. They will also not sell as many as 30,000 tickets if that means they cannot handle processing.

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            MP

            I am guessing that they will all have to be presold for ID requirements. Temp checks and sanitiser, no idea how many gates. Watch the game on TV.

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            Peter C

            No wonder the Trump Rally was poorly attended.

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      yarpos

      I’m guessing there is more than one gate

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      OriginalSteve

      I’m starting to think a “controlled burn” of this thing through society will rid us of the damn problem. Otherwise our economy will never get going again….unless of course thats the idea….

      I notice hard left pollie are in favour of keeping people locked down.

      In the USA,most of the protests were against left/Dem pollies who wanted to keep lock downs in palce for no good reason.

      Coincidence?

      One of the main aims of Communism, is destruction of the middle class ( and its wealth ).

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    PeterS

    While we are at it close the interconnects too. This border closure nonsense has gone too far already. Clearly it isn’t working anyway if the intention is to have zero cases throughout Australia, which isn’t the official goal anyway. Minimisation is the goal and we have reached that a long time ago. The states have become like little dictators playing games.

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    PeterS

    Could it be that the conspiracy theorists are right for once? Is all this some sort of conspiracy to move to a NWO? I’m beginning to wonder but I still prefer the simpler idea that our state and federal governments are just plain stupid and have lost touch of reality.

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      There is a mixture of stupidity and incompetence in the ranks of the civil service and the parliamentarians, for sure. There is also an assumption that ‘government knows best’. There is a false assumption of knowledge and expertise. Then there is timidity and buck passing – shamelessly trying to pin the blame on the ‘scientific experts’. Then there are those who are naturally attracted to the power they have usurped. It makes them feel good to be able to force their decisions on the masses. Think one State Premier in particular; think a number of media presenters who claim some scientific or medical knowledge; think about the little Napoleons everywhere suddenly given their 15 minutes of fame.

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        Bill In Oz

        Nah David !
        It’s a conspiracy !

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        Rob Kennedy

        The tale of “The Emperor’s New Clothes” was told to children to advance them in wisdom so that later in life they would be be able to discern truth from falsehood. Unfortunately, many adults lose that wisdom somehow. Pride is often the culprit.
        The character of the King can be seen in positions of power in many countries and the tailors can be the “experts” advising the Kings. How do you argue with “experts” and maintain your status? Hence we have Kings obeying the “experts” even though their own eyes tell them that they themselves are naked. Climate Change and any other hoax can be inflicted upon the population while ever the population believes the “experts”. This is also reasonable because none of us wish to become paranoid and it is more in the nature of a reasonable human being to want to believe in the expertise of educated persons. It is when honest experts expose the falsity of the dishonest that the uneducated become wary. Any true investigator or skeptic should always ask the primary question about any event, “Cui bono?”. Who benefits? Most times this is followed by an action, “Follow the Money”.

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        PeterS

        I agree totally but I wouldn’t ignore the fact there are some in places of influence both government and private who have such a twisted mind they will do anything to change things to make life hell for many of us. Some of us would classify them as evil. Perhaps. Perhaps they have some serious psychological issue. Regardless of the root cause the end result is the same. What’s much worse is it’s now widespread and people of good nature and common sense are becoming rarer. As time goes on more and more of the bad people will hold powerful jobs. The only way to reverse the trend is for normal people to stand up and make themselves heard. That includes turning on brain when voting. Up until now all we see and hear is the noise of the angry and violent mad left and it’s getting worse. The majority may be the normal ones but they are silent and as long as they remain silent the trend will continue.

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          OrignalSteve

          I’m starting to think the protesters are just the organized militant arm of “middle class acceptable” left wing politicians…

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      MP

      Watch the first clip in this, the rest of it is not worth the effort.
      BLM’s goal is also to bring on a reset. They have been donated hundreds of millions of dollars, what for, so they can break other peoples sh#t?
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuCYoxjQ5Lg&t=151s

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      Kalm Keith

      Not stupid.

      There are massive amounts of Self Interest at work.

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    RickWill

    Peter Costello does not have any medical qualification and yet he gets that closing borders was the most effective control against the pandemic. Hopefully he will write a paper on the topic, get it peer reviewed so Anders Tegnell can learn how to best control a pandemic.

    We also have to wonder why the World Health Organisation still exists.

    Australia is so dependent on WA for export income that it is the one State that really needed to stay at work. It is good for the country that it now appears to be virus free.

    Sadly Victoria is the cool set, lacking the self discipline and the genuine care for others that is needed to crush the virus.

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      It is not possible to retain virus free status. NZ is proof of that. Any policy designed to eliminate the virus is pointless when it comes to its stated aim but seriously damaging in all other respects.

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        Orson

        False. It is possible, but only with resolve: quarantines of new travellers, plus testing and contact tracing. Experience and determined management will keep NZ virus free and contained.

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      yarpos

      Generalising much, meh, if it suits your preconceived mental framework all good I guess.

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      Annie

      We in the country were very careful for many weeks. The ‘cool set’ started to invade us from Melbourne again and were very careless. Large numbers kept rushing into our local supermarket with no care whatsoever, no distancing, no masks, no hand gel, no cleaning the shopping trolleys…don’t blame those of us up-country in Victoria for the present panic down in the city areas; blame Dictator Dan and his sidekicks.

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    TIP

    Shutting internal state borders is no longer required, worse, it likely hinders progress

    A more targeted, focused and precise “lock down” should now be the procedure. Rapid, intense and very well resourced should be the response on definite locations (not entire states). We should expect them to spring up anywhere in any state at any time.

    There is a lot of “stuff victoria” “cut them off” “let them stew in it”…..As a single land mass, single country, fairly fragile economy – we simply cant afford this mentality, it will bite us all in the a**.

    The sledge hammer time is over – sharpen the scalpel and get the rest of the country open again.

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      yarpos

      We are a parochial bunch at heart and definitely not “all in this together” The speed with which State leaders get back to petty sniping and game playing is dissapointing.

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    Destroyer D69

    Open the borders but retain the restrictions on large gatherings. We have proved that we can survive without them………

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    stevem

    So much of the lockdown has been about politics rather than medicine. Palaszczuk is playing to the electorate for the upcoming state election rather than what is sensible. Since the initial outbreaks associated with nursing homes and the Ruby Princess NSW has been, per capita, among the best performing states. There can be little justification in pointing out the number of cases occurring in quarantine as the reason for an ongoing border ban.

    No, the premiers just want to look strong and it’s easiest to go for a state governed by the other party.

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    robert rosicka

    Just caught the chairman Dan press conference here in Victoriastan and I’m positive he gave the official number of people tested for the Wuflu since JANUARY 1 ? , really ? We were testing for it since January!

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    Furiously curious

    Sorta pretty much off topic. Q & some A.
    What is standing between us and waking up in The Middle Kingdom? Trump.
    What is standing between us and waking up in 1984? Murdock.
    China has never been an expansionist nation before? China has never had a communist government before, and maybe the non Han peoples should be asked.

    Why is impossible to have a discussion with someone with ABC, without being bombarded down with mantras?
    Has the ABC created an warm, artificial womb for people to bask lazily in, in a blissful ignorance?
    Should ABC be a notifiable disease?

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      yarpos

      “What is standing between us and waking up in 1984? Murdock.”

      Only if your only source of news is the MSM. Thankfully we have that Interweb thingy and many independent altermative views. Could probably be considered diversity, which after all is our greatest strength.

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    Mal

    We may have to face reality sooner or later
    Unless a vaccine is found we will have exposure to carriers and there will be some fatalities
    There are about 1500 fatalities on ausrtalian roads each year. We could get zero fatalities by banning all vehicular traffic
    We don’t do it. Zero fatalities on roads is an aspirational target which we are working towards
    We may never reach it

    Why is the corona virus being treated so differently to the rest of health and other issues that kill 65,000 people in Australia each year

    Eventually we may have to accept some fatalities so we don’t destroy the livelihoods of millions of healthy Australians

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      el gordo

      Patience is called for, we don’t want to be Brazil.

      Influenza is well down and presumably a lower death rate because of restrictions.

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        PeterW

        We may not want to be Brazil, but if we are not careful, we will be Venezuela……. Or pick any other country with insufficient revenue to fund its health system.

        As others have pointed out ad nauseum, there is no free lunch here. The long term pain for this short term gain can easily be more deaths and a lower standard of health, not to mention lower living standards and national security.

        No. Free. Lunch.

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          el gordo

          The recession won’t be long lived, unless there are continuing clusters.

          Do you think we should open up all our airports to international travel? How about ending all lockdowns and open up all borders?

          GDP maybe worse than the Great Depression, but our fundamentals are sound so I expect a quick recovery.

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            OrignalSteve

            Methinks they should have “flying squads” that can deal with localized outbreaks, and let the rest of us just get on with things.

            The Leftists are using the virus to make a mess of the economy. Every time I see a “max people in this store at once” sign, its laughable.

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            • #

              The Left don’t need a virus to make a mess of the economy.

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                farmerbraun

                But a virus can be a handy scapegoat.
                Makes a change from Trump.
                And this virus may be smart enough to have low lethality and high transmissibility. Perfect.
                The thesis that we all get it , the speed of spread depending on two main things – health and social distance – is not yet falsified? Too soon to say.

                [The study emphasizes that the spread of the virus may be a far better focus than its death rate. It also concludes that the virus could have been here in the states and working to infect earlier - and quicker - than anticipated.

                Silverman concluded: “Our results suggest that the overwhelming effects of COVID-19 may have less to do with the virus’ lethality and more to do with how quickly it was able to spread through communities initially. A lower fatality rate coupled with a higher prevalence of disease and rapid growth of regional epidemics provides an alternative explanation to the large number of deaths and overcrowding of hospitals we have seen in certain areas of the world.”]

                You can read the full study, published in Science Translational Medicine, here.

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              Kalm Keith

              Exactly.

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      Mal

      Refer to article by Alan Jones in the Daily telegraphy today.
      His comments regarding the dire economic and social consequences when the financial stimulus ends are pretty extreme but are quite plausible.
      I have been concerned from day 1 that the panic-demic could be an order of magnitude worse than the actual pandemic.

      Only time will tell.

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        Bright Red

        Mal. “panic-demic could be an order of magnitude worse than the actual pandemic.”
        Love that statement and agree. This still has a long way to run.

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      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      G’day Mal,
      I don’t have much confidence in their finding a vaccine, especially as a couple of cheap and quick acting cures are available, as I posted yesterday:

      http://joannenova.com.au/2020/06/the-phrase-of-the-day-is-second-wave/#comment-2341915

      A couple also seem to have preventative capability, destroying the virus before hospitalisation.
      Cheers
      Dave B

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        Mal

        Hi Dave
        In regard to the health side , I hope your right

        I have posted previously in regard to vitamin D3 to boost immune system and or exposure to the sun.

        In regard to the economics consequences, we will know in the near future.
        Cheers

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        Environment Skeptic

        I don’t have much confidence in their finding a vaccine

        Me too….the virus is so old now, and ancient, in terms of virus time that it has mutated and finding a vaccine for an ancient virus is a bit of a joke in my non expert opinion.
        The virus is now ‘old hat’ and has mutated on to greener pastures..

        Thank.

        This comment has been peer reviewed by me, and i am happy with my peer review :)

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          Environment Skeptic

          If the lock-down continues (The experimental lock-down of healthy people for the first time ever), it will be for a new flu. Virus’s mutate, that simple. 9 months for a virus is an amazingly long life in terms of mutation. Mutated from day one. As far as i know.

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        PTR

        Well David, yesterday I was grateful and relieved after reading your advice. I now had a plan with the threat resolved. Argh! but then, today’s news puts a dampener on that: https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-and-sex-hormones-baldness-may-be-a-risk-factor-and-anti-androgens-a-treatment-140340
        I have a shiny top on my head; seems that I have another issue to contend with. If and when it comes to the crunch, one has to hope that who-ever it is who writes the instruction book, is fully aware of all the treatment intricacies involved, and hopefully is not a State apparatchik with the skill level presently being displayed in this dismal State of Vic.

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      Kalm Keith

      Would anyone in their right mind trust a three month old vaccine.

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      dinn, rob

      Why is the corona virus being treated so differently to the rest of health…?
      https://carolinefifemd.com/2020/04/24/covid-19-the-origins-story-by-guest-blogger-marissa-carter-phd/

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    Another Ian

    Somewhat O/T – a different closing of borders

    “Trump to Halt Foreign Visa Worker Programs to Free Up 600K U.S. Jobs for Americans”

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/06/22/trump-halts-foreign-visa-worker-programs-to-free-up-600k-u-s-jobs-for-americans/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=daily&utm_campaign=20200622

    ” “Facebook depends on foreign guest workers for more than 15 percent of its workforce, according to the U.S. Labor Department, which could leave it vulnerable if the Trump administration tightens a visa program for skilled workers.” ”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2020/06/23/how-do-you-like-him-now-techies/

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    Melbourne Resident

    isnt it about time the Governor General of Victoria – (Linda Dessau AC) stood up and said something on behalf of all Victorians and fired our useless government?

    31

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      el gordo

      The lady in question lacks the legal authority, but you already knew that.

      01

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      Serp

      Dan has assured questioners that he will lead Labor to the next election over two years away; I won’t be surprised if he’s succumbed to pressure and resigned by August. Withdrawal from BRI is probably more difficult than Brexit; let’s find out.

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    Robber

    By May 1 there had been 93 CV19 deaths in Australia from 6768 cases.
    By June 1 102 deaths from 7294 cases.
    By June 23 102 deaths from 7492 cases.
    Average death rate 1.4 per 100 cases.
    According to Worldometer the average CV19 death rate for the world is 5.1 per 100 cases, USA 5.1, Belgium 16, UK 14, Canada & Sweden 8.
    And on the low side Singapore 0.06.
    In total cases per million population, USA 7315, S’pore 7254, Sweden 6025, Canada 2701, UK 632, Australia 294.
    The Lucky Country, or closed borders, or a mild strain?

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    • #

      the confusion with comparisons. Correct for population density and age profile. Correct for testing rates and method of attributing deaths. Correct for efforts to protect the vulnerable.

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    Robber

    Many Australians would be wondering how it came to be that the state that imposed the strictest lockdowns at the beginning of this pandemic is suffering from a second wave of infections on a scale not witnessed elsewhere.
    “Victoria’s failure comes down to its manifestly inadequate organisational health department structure and the subsequent lack of skills on the ground to manage a second wave.”
    “No public health units in local health districts, as happens in other states, is a significant shortfall. The Victorian model centralises power, which reduces the skills and abilities of local health districts to manage outbreaks when they occur.”
    Victoria’s Chief Health Officer, Brett Sutton, isn’t even a deputy secretary within Victoria’s health ­bureaucracy, as the chief health ­officers are in similarly large states such as NSW and Queensland. In fact, all other states classify their CHOs as a deputy secretary or equivalent for reporting purposes. In Victoria, the CHO is merely one of seven direct reports to one of the five deputy secretaries who report to the secretary of the Victorian Department of Health and Human Services. Which means he is a long way down the totem pole.

    40