JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Tuesday Open Thread

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Rating: 7.3/10 (12 votes cast)
Tuesday Open Thread, 7.3 out of 10 based on 12 ratings

159 comments to Tuesday Open Thread

  • #
    Another Ian

    For the record

    “Chinese Coronavirus survived for 17 days on cruise ship after cabins were vacated – US CDC study”

    https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2020/03/chinese-coronavirus-survived-for-17-days-on-cruise-ship-after-cabins-were-vacated-us-cdc-study.html

    100

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      It’s pretty clear that the whole cruise ship industry is a major health risk for the passengers, crew and the people living in the ports they visit

      And the weird thing is that almost all the passengers are elderly retired folk most at risk of severe health outcomes or death. Folk who could chose not to go on these cruise ships.But do anyway. with no thought for the future for themselves or others.

      I personally know two couples who went on Cruises recently. Both couples knew that COVID disease was coming and that it was on the Diamond Princess and spreading fast ..

      Utter stupidity !

      120

    • #
      James Poulos

      Virus panic:

      Illegal refugees demand medi-vac back to Nauru…

      180

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        Nauru has refused for Quarantine reason !
        :-)

        90

      • #
        Environment Skeptic

        Vrus panic here too…Wonder if we can wipe out the ordinary flu using the new recent quarantine technology? Two birds with one rock or stone type of projectile?

        30

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      OFF TOPIC SORT OF !
      Today I again went and worked in the garden. Good for the mind & body !
      But while I was outside a young couple delivered the week’s catalogue collection.
      They put it in the post box and we said hello at a distance.
      But here is a question : Does the virus survive long on paper catalogues ?
      (Assuming it/they have been handled by someone who is infected or infectious )
      Should I even be accepting such a weekly delivery at the moment ?

      80

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Well if it survives for 2 weeks on a surface, is good old fashioned metho going to nail the rotten thing, or is it high pressure boiling water followed by a serious bleaching?

        50

        • #
          Bill In Oz

          Ummm I see you love a jest Steve !
          But I asked a serious question :
          How long does this virus survive on PAPER ?
          I’ve seen NO information about that
          Metal, ceramic surfaces etc , yes
          But paper NO !

          50

          • #
            williamx

            Bill in Oz

            FYI, posted today by the Adelaide Advertiser.

            “University NSW and Kirby Institute biosecurity expert Professor Raina MacIntyre said new research showed the virus can survive for up to three hours in the air, two to three days on plastic and stainless steel, 24 hours on cardboard and four hours on copper.”

            Is this true? I do not know.

            paper is close to cardboard.

            Stay well my friend

            60

          • #
            Environment Skeptic

            Or taxis’s…can taxis spread the virus…i took a taxi…thinking that i could curb the death toll of drunk drivers by taking a taxi…is there any new data that shows taking a taxi to the pub will help with the new corona?

            00

            • #
              Environment Skeptic

              We need solid numbers. Many like myself are taking a taxi to replenish our supply of fresh ethanol. We need to know that it is safe to do so…no body wants to be spreading corona on a simple taxi journey to the local pub.

              10

        • #
          toorightmate

          Let’s start a rumour that the virus is destroyed if the CO2 concentration of the atmosphere exceeds 450ppm.

          70

          • #
            GD

            Let’s start a rumour that the virus is destroyed if the CO2 concentration of the atmosphere exceeds 450ppm

            Make that 2000ppm and I’m in!

            That could end that ridiculous climate scam forever.

            20

      • #
        PeterS

        Where gloves and even then wash hands afterwards. I’ve bought a box of surgical gloves on eBay about a year ago. I know use them where necessary, such as using the petrol pump for refuelling the car. After dispensing the gloves I apply hand sanitiser. When I get back home I wash hands properly.

        30

      • #
        GD

        Does the virus survive long on paper catalogues?

        I was wondering that too. At the moment my area isn’t lucky (?) enough to get paper catalogues, but I still get some mail from the government and insurance, internet companies et al.

        Stop sending me mail, I’m becoming paranoid!

        20

    • #
      yarpos

      Never could see the attraction with cruise ships. You are trapped with whatever happens on board, they have always been festering Gastro platforms, and now this. If all you want is to veg out in luxury there are so many options.

      60

  • #

    Home teaching Day 1.

    41

    • #
      farmerbraun

      Starts when they are borne , doesn’t it. I mean the responsibility for their education.

      130

      • #
        DOC

        You worry about them for a lifetime!

        90

      • #
        RickWill

        It may be more a learning experience for parents.

        However I am somewhat concerned by the run on alcohol once school closures were announced. If people need to be aneasthesised to deal full time with their children then maybe they need the lesson this opportunity provides. Could make future life of teachers easier.

        80

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      Never thought I’d be a team player, but both my wife and I are using the microsoft version – its annoying, but it does work, if you can grab around 5 mbs per

      80

      • #
        toorightmate

        How is your wife’s health?

        70

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          She is Ok, and none of the 3 have tested positive, and thanks for asking. At this stage TAFE only moved the course she teaches online, which is both good and bad. The Face to Face students lack a lot of the resources necessary to do a fashion course, and often need help using the machines. The existing online course, which had about 100 students, has been operating for several years, and is mainly focussed on those who need to maintain currency (mostly high school teachers).

          90

      • #
        yarpos

        Microsoft version of what?

        00

  • #
    DonS

    Hi Jo

    Have we taken our eye of the China ball too soon? I’ve heard reports today that there are still many people dying in China but that the government has stopped testing and is quickly getting rid of the bodies in crematoria. I recall the communist big wig in Wuhan demanded no new cases be found 3-4 weeks ago and almost the day after the number of reported cases started to fall sharply.

    I don’t want to get involved over playing the problem but if the Chinese Communists are still not telling the full story then this virus may be much more dangerous and persistent a problem than we think. Time to clean out the W.H.O., get new leadership in there, and get to the bottom of this.

    190

  • #
    • #
      Kalm Keith

      I read most of it but it’s just more of the same.

      50

    • #
      DOC

      THe UN, the EU Commission and the WHO have all overstayed their welcome and ought be
      scrapped. They all seem to be taken over by people pushing extreme agendas or
      are run by people who owe to much to other nations or movements; that colours their interests.
      If we can ignore them, as we do, why do we support them and pay for them when it is not in
      our own interests to do so. Why do we bother attending DOHA just to take their vilification and
      turn the other cheek. I remember Julie Bishop, a global warmist true believer that seem
      to have no trouble throwing a cool $1/2B at the UN and its IPCC. WE could do with that right now.

      190

      • #
        Dennis

        President Trump agrees and has told the UN to downsize, that the US will not continue to fund their present activities and to stop interfering in member nation affairs.

        Post COVID-19 UNEXIT, please.

        180

        • #
          Kalm Keith

          Yes!!!!!

          A thousand times Yes.

          UNexit. AusUNexit!!!

          Build Australia again!

          All the unemployed at work for the New Australia, building dams, clearing undergrowth from our beautiful bushlands,

          Imagine.

          120

          • #
            Peter C

            I hope that Dennis is right. Need a reference.

            If so it goes down as one of the very greatest deeds of Trump

            60

        • #
          PeterS

          Yes Trump is on the right track but our PM Morrison is not. He is still adamant that reducing our emissions is a good thing. Someone should tap him on the shoulder with a mallet and tell him it’s a total waste of time and is causing much harm to our economy. Meanwhile China, India, Japan and others are building massive numbers of new coal fired power stations. They too are members of the UN. Go figure.

          30

    • #
      Ross

      If that is all the UN can contribute to the issue they should closed down, now.

      60

  • #
    Kalm Keith

    It took me a while, but with continued curiosity eventually everything becomes clear.

    It proves that you can find humour in anything.

    30

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Online comment over the last few weeks has made it seem that China’s President Xi was “involved” with a young lady with her being reported to have been visiting the President in China, been causing a lot of trouble there and finally being forced out of the country. Very mysterious.

      40

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      The girl, referred to online by expat Vietnamese as Miss Na was a real piece of work. She had been a problem wherever she went but I continued to just skip past the news about her.

      20

      • #
        Yonniestone

        Na is the symbol for Salt, I guess the president thought she was Sodium fine……..

        40

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        Then two days ago there was a facebook entry in Vietnamese so I hit the translate button and there was Miss Na again up to her usual tricks.

        Smelling a rat, or maybe a bat, I went back to the original text and there she was; Co Na, ____ Miss Na.

        Co = miss.

        It became apparent that they had just heard Corona being spoken with Vietnamese emphasis as Co Na and from then on in their online stuff was all about Miss Na the dreaded virus from China.

        My apologies for this long drawn out comment, but miss na is taking over the world.

        If only we could get her to visit the United Bloody Nations building in New York.

        KK

        80

  • #
  • #

    So then, in the United States, the Democrats are holding up the Bailout Bill in the U.S. Senate.

    Why.

    Well you see, three to five Republicans are self quarantining themselves, so the numbers are closer than usual, so Democrats will vote how they are told to along party lines.

    The Democrats have tacked onto the Coronavirus Stimulus Bill elements of their Green New Deal, and other ‘pork’ as well.

    Among those things the Democrats want to add are climate regulations on the airline industry, tougher fuel emission standards and tax credits for solar and wind energy initiatives.

    This is the second day that Bill has failed in the Senate, and in the House Nancy Pelosi has said Democrats will introduce their own Bill.

    House Democrat Whip, Jim Clyburn said the coronavirus package is “a tremendous opportunity to restructure things to fit our vision.”

    Link to article

    Tony.

    171

    • #
      RicDre

      Tony, here is some additional on that topic:

      Sen Tom Cotton Calls Democrats’ Fight To Hold Coronavirus Bill Hostage Over Climate Change, Other Liberal Dreams A ‘Disgrace’

      https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/03/23/sen-tom-cotton-calls-democrats-fight-to-hold-coronavirus-bill-hostage-over-climate-change-other-liberal-dreams-a-disgrace/

      110

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        DIMOCRATS do stuff like that !
        Bugger
        I’m glad that Labor has more common sense here.

        50

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Send them out to man the hospitals to watch the carnage first hand…that will wake them up

          Good dose of reality will have them sucking their thumbs and rocking back and forth, making weird squealing noises….

          70

    • #
      RickWill

      The States with the fastest rate of CV-19 infection are NY, CA and WA; all democrat strongholds. Nice to know their representatives are willing to defer their current survival packages for an imagined problem still centuries away. I look forward to the State Governors roasting their Federal representatives.

      By contrast, the Australian Parliament had bipartisan support for the emergency measures. ScoMo, in hindsight, can be thankful for the fires in arming him with ability to deal effectively with the States. The emergency “cabinet” of COAG leaders was inspired. Albanese took a bit of swipe at the government but was not going to use the situation to push unrelated matters. There is pressure for Albanese to be part of the cabinet.

      I watched one ABC dingbat trying to bait ScoMo over Vic and NSW ending schools early while he was still saying they should remain open. It was such trivial questioning in the circumstances that my wife even got put off by it.

      If nothing else, the US federal dems will soon come to learn what an “emergency” looks like. Them using it as an opportunity for political leverage will be viewed very badly.

      200

      • #
        Dennis

        Albo is not the leader of a government and if he was allowed to join the COAG based leaders cabinet State opposition leaders would have to be invited as well.

        There are 5 Labor Premiers and 3 Coalition Premiers plus Prime Minister so 5 to 4 Labor cabinet members.

        Labor says Albo should be a member in the interests of being bipartisan?

        And most of the Health emergency crisis is State and Territory governments areas of responsibility, Health Departments and Public Hospitals for example, law and order, licensing hotels, restaurants and cafes together with Local Government Councils controlled by the State Governments.

        The PM like a public company board chairman and is the spokesman.

        60

    • #
      DOC

      It’s as well our Parties have come together and arranged for barely half the
      House and Senate to keep the place running and reduce the numbers knocked out by
      the virus. And we have paring which it’s apparent doesn’t happen in the US.

      One can only believe the Democrats are digging their own grave for the next election.
      They are continuing the same base, chase for power they have done for the entire
      Trump Presidency. One can’t see the people putting up with it much more as they go
      down in health and jobs and this package is actually $2T of support for them in their
      difficulties. Pelosie and Chuck are just sick! IMO

      90

  • #
    RicDre

    EU Green Leader Explains Climate Change and Democracy, and Why Chinese People should Accept Their Place

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/03/23/eu-climate-leader-can-democracy-accompany-degrowth-and-its-societal-impacts/

    30

  • #
    farmerbraun

    155 cases in NZ (multiply that by 10) ; 12 recovered (what does that mean?);
    6 in hospital ; none in ICU.

    https://thebfd.co.nz/2020/03/covid-19-update-24-march-2020/

    70

    • #
      farmerbraun

      I suspect that the number of cases of “flu” in NZ is currently in the thousands , based on what I can see around me.
      There is no way to know if it is covid 19 because most will never be tested ; they will just recover and carry on.

      70

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        I would love to see how many hospitalized have pre-existing conditions. If its the bulk of people, well that means a global lock down is excessive.

        Put the quarantine resources in for the elderly and vulnerable, instead of making everyones life miserable…..

        Although I suspect many bureaucrats/shiny backsides probably get off on the current power trip…..then add the nearly-forgotten insane green influence and its like a fringe religious drug addled trance-induced dervish-like dance around a fire in the middle of the forest somewhere, and you have the full picture.

        Were only day 1 in , and I’ve had enough already.

        81

        • #
          yarpos

          As they have to actually make the real decisions they probably tend to err on the side of caution. For them its less consequence free than making a blog post.

          00

    • #
      Chad

      i hope you do not develop 10x that number of cases.
      I would expect you guys to end up with similat result to Singapore ( with a similar 5 m population ?) at only a few hundred cases, very low fatalities (2) etc….if you can test and isolate cases quickly.

      20

      • #
        farmerbraun

        We’ll never know because anyone who has it and recovers normally will not be tested.
        I reckon I’m at Day 10 now , so if I’m still posting next week it was a) not covid
        or b) no big deal.

        70

  • #
    Bob in Baltimore

    JoNova, Queen of Hindsight, First Lady of Inciting Fear! Congrats’

    037

    • #
      toorightmate

      B in B
      Do you look like crap?
      Because you sure sound like crap.

      170

    • #
      AP

      What a stupid comment. Go back a month in the posts on this website. There is a tremendous amount of foresight there. Jo has been warning about this for well over a month, maybe two.

      210

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      May you & your family enjoy a hugely i’nfectious’ season !

      61

    • #
      farmerbraun

      Bit harsh Bob.I’ve followed Jo for all of this. She tried hard to get a government to listen .
      They didn’t.
      Her concern was always for those for whom covid 19 was more dangerous , and secondly for a medical system which overloads every winter anyway.
      Trying to incite an intelligent response from anyone is hard work at the best of times.
      I agree, in your case , Jo failed.

      140

    • #
      robert rosicka

      Bob I’ve been following what Jo has written for her insight as a biologist, I can’t remember the host saying panic anywhere and with what’s going down right now in your country wouldn’t you like to be informed as to how the virus works and spreads !

      140

    • #
      DOC

      Sorry mate. At least if you are going to let your bile overflow – for some it is
      therapeutic I hear – be accurate. Jo Nova has been well ahead of the game from the get-go.
      You really should keep up, or maybe the virus is getting a bit closer to you and you
      can’t cope. Just be brave, old son. It’s all written in the wind.

      170

    • #
      RickWill

      JoNova, Queen of Hindsight, First Lady of Inciting Fear! Congrats’

      Absolutely wrong – the only commentator I have read who got it spot on from the time of first posting on the topic. Made calls months in advance of the WHO, which would have been well informed from very early stages but failed to lock down China while China had locked down internally.

      This was her first blog on CV-19:
      http://joannenova.com.au/2020/02/corona-virus-and-those-exponential-curves/
      Way ahead of the rest and called out those making deadly calls.

      130

    • #
      el gordo

      Anyone who has been following Jo’s posts knows she has been at the forefront of this from the get go. So its not hindsight, more to do with her academic background.

      120

    • #
      yarpos

      Yes your right Bob, it will be fine. Especially in Baltimore aka Bodymore, have people heeded the cry to stop shooting each other so there are enough hospital beds for the it will be fine virus patients??

      https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bronsonstocking/2020/03/18/baltimore-mayor-implores-residents-to-stop-shooting-each-other-so-hospitals-can-f-n2565240

      50

    • #
      mc

      Interesting comments in response to Bob, well, if you’re going to try hurling crap around the place it shouldn’t come as a surprise if you get covered in the stuff yourself.

      30

  • #
    Raving

    Maybe the U.S. is getting ready to jump the shark on the coronavirus issue. I wish them good luck with the herd immunity

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/23/business/trump-coronavirus-economy.html?referringSource=articleShare

    30

  • #
    RickWill

    This is a very interesting graphic for CV-19:
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/21/upshot/coronavirus-deaths-by-country.html
    It shows the death rate for countries with more than 25 recorded deaths. Note that the vertical axis is a log scale. Hence exponential rise in deaths equates to a linear trend line.

    The trajectory for Spain is higher than Italy. First place (maybe last place) with number of deaths doubling every 2 days is UK. UK hospitals are probably already overwhelmed. Expect to see news reports of UK hospitals in dire circumstances like those in northern Italy.

    US had a controlled start, probably due to cases being imported, but, now that local infections are occurring, its death rate is running at 3days per doubling.

    It would not surprise me to see Los Angeles and New York similar to New Orleans post Katrina with emergency centres to deal with those trying to be kept alive.

    Australia is still a few days away from registering on this graphic.

    71

  • #
    robert rosicka

    After all this is over Australia is going to need a nation building project and none better than a full version of the Bradfield scheme along with dams , dams and more dams .
    Why not while they’re at it build some coal fired power stations as well .

    190

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      I suggest we enlist everyone who has pedalled the Big Lie and give them a shovel and tell them with 5 years hard labour, they qualify for parole….

      90

  • #
    RickWill

    Who could have predicted the current circumstances globally 6 weeks weeks ago. Certainly not WHO:
    https://www.scmp.com/video/china/3048808/who-says-widespread-travel-bans-not-needed-beat-coronavirus

    World Health Organisation chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said on February 3 that there was no need for measures that “unnecessarily interfere with international travel and trade” amid the coronavirus outbreak. Many countries, including the US, Australia and Singapore, are trying to contain the spread of the new virus by denying entry to people who have visited China recently or restricting flights to and from China.

    This guy needs to be brought to trial for crimes against humanity. His advice has been deadly to literally thousands so far and possibly millions. He alone can take the lions share of the blame for the loss of global economic output in 2020.

    China is not blameless either. It was taking draconian action within its borders while freely spreading the virus globally. An honourable country would simply close its borders as soon as the potential was realised.

    Who can hold WHO to account over this mess. If they are unaccountable then they should be disbanded. We know the IPCC is corrupt, pedalling their nonsense, but it is inflicting slow economic death. The WHO have managed in two months to achieve what the IPCC could not do in 30 years.

    160

  • #
    DOC

    Once/if this epidemic gets under control, I figure our government will
    go for broke with infrastructure and mining schemes that will quickly get
    so many with job losses, back to work. They can’t be tardy as they have been
    with the response to the virus. They MUST plan now for recovery and be ready
    to drop in the jobs explosion as soon as it is prudent to do so.

    There will be such a backlog of unemployed people that most of the global warming ideas and restrictions will be out the window in a flash. Woe-be-tide any activists trying to stand in the way. The people, mostly broke and on the dole, won’t stand for it. Notice even Andrews in
    Victoria has already been forced to see the light on gas. The inner city dwellers that
    vote left and green and have lost their jobs, will have received a wake-up call from
    Nature (and Gaia(?)) the reverse of anything they would have expected.

    Let the light shine in! Maybe even inner city dwellers, like the virus, are sensitive to UV!

    110

    • #
      Robber

      Those “inner city Greenies” probably all work for the government in secure and now work from home jobs, achieving very little.

      160

      • #
        Dennis

        When the employers are out of work and income the servants other than essential to keeping the enterprise operating would be stood down.

        Why should government employee public servants be protected?

        50

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        Robber:
        But if the depression is as bad as feared, then the tax dollars won’t be coming in to pay for all those on the public teat. The government’s first response will be to print more money just to pay for them, but in a prolonged depression sooner or later be necessary to trim government departments, Commissions etc. Even the Universities will be hit. The lure of the inner-cities may not be so bright.

        70

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        But completely denied the opportunity to meet over coffee & smashed avocados !
        Poor poor Greenists !

        20

      • #
        AP

        Bunnings was packed on the weekend. Lots of DIY happening this week is my guess.

        30

        • #
          yarpos

          mmmm I did a bit of that at our country equivalent on the Monday and today getting my DIY ducks in a row. There should be some very well maintained machinery around here in the next wo weeks as well.

          30

    • #
      Dennis

      One of the top priorities should be to overcome the activists holding up $ billions of projects through court appeals based on UN Treaties and related Federal and State legislation complimenting the Treaties.

      Many have been held up for a decade or more.

      100

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        Section 487

        The avenue of appeal opened by Section 487 of the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 2000 (EPBC Act) is the culprit.

        It is a tool of green/left ideological ‘lawfare’ that increases project costs by delaying project commencement. The economic cost of those delays have been costed at between $534 million and
        $1.2 billion for the period 2004-2016. That is probably a significant under-estimate.

        What the greenies fail to understand, or ignore, is that delayed coal projects, for example, lead to worse global environmental outcomes by pushing mining projects to dirtier coal reserves overseas, and deny access to cheap energy needed to lift people out of poverty. The moral/ethical issues associated with that outcome are reprehensible. However, given the green/left ideology, its proponents don’t care. There’s too many people on the planet anyway, is their collective view.

        90

    • #
      Destroyer D69bb

      The first lesson being driven home will most likely be … Manufacture in Country, and that includes the supply chain of raw materials. The only producer of surgical masks in Aus has suspended production because of unavailability of the most critical component (filter material)onshore,

      60

  • #
    Raving

    Here is Ontario’s list of essential workplaces to remain open. We are doomed :( On the positive side, liquor and cannabis stores are also deemed as essential :|

    https://news.ontario.ca/opo/en/2020/3/list-of-essential-workplaces.html

    60

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Ontario’s Clayton’s Lockdown !
      Bugger !

      20

      • #
        yarpos

        Bit self righteous Bill, its pretty much the same here

        I can go to hardware stores, farm supply stores, garden centres in my home town
        My wife went down to Covid Central today and into a medium sized shopping centre. Bunnings, BigW, Reject Shop, Shoe shop, all open. Good news was that it was all running at about 10% capacity with a mostly empty car park. People seem to be containing themselves at least in that area.

        20

  • #
    Slithers

    I see that a ‘Ruby Princess’ passenger has now died from CONVID-19. The lame explanations from the NSW Health Officials that ‘The vessel had only been to NZ and had docked in Wellington 14th March begs the question of ‘How Intelligent’ those Health Officials are.

    Two factors should have to be answered. How many new crew members/passengers boarded the ship in Wellington. How many NZ people (Pilots, maintenance people were aboard the ship while she was in port.

    As this pandemic becomes more serious these are the sorts of questions ALL people who contract the virus must answer so that other potential contacts can be, traced. All the potential contacts being tested makes it very much more likely that there will be sufficient tests kits around and suffers can be tracked and quarantined.

    70

    • #
      AP

      Its too late. People who were told to “self-quarantine” just went out to the shops when they got off the boat. How do you do contact tracing for everyone who:

      Touched the same trolley
      Touched the button at the carpark boom gate
      Used the same checkout
      Touched a food item after it was handled and put back

      30

  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    I’m posting this warning about coronavirus
    https://youtu.be/en06PYwvpbI
    The interesting thing is that this was a talk given in 2018… so glad we listen to scientists

    42

  • #
    joseph

    I consider this to be a ‘must read’. Anyone think it’s a waste of time?

    https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/03/22/coronavirus-toxic-drugs-no-liability-for-pharma/

    21

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      Jon Rappoport is listed in the Encyclopedia of American Loons. And with good cause.

      He’s a believer that the flu (common garden variety) doesn’t kill many people and that the authorities only say it does to promote their vaccines. If that’s not enough he has a theory of germs – he’s a germ theory denier.

      Diagnosis: ( per the Encyclopedia of Loons) Hysterically crazy; and his influence is probably not quite as limited as his level of crazy should suggest.

      Why are we getting more and more of this mad stuff here? Have the lurking lefties all come out of the woodwork? Is GetUp feeling attention deprived.

      I dunno. Any suggestions?

      20

      • #
        joseph

        Sceptical Sam,
        I wonder if you’ve noticed what kind of a diagnosis is inspired by anyone who questions the global warming version of climate science in the Encyclopaedia of American Loons. Check it out. Anthony Watts doesn’t get his own column but gets linked to a RationlWiki page from a column on Joe Bast. Just for the fun of it have a look at what is said about Willis Eschenbach.

        10

        • #
          Sceptical Sam

          Poor old Willis. :-)

          Perhaps he’s the exception that proves the rule (whatever, that means).

          Still, Rappoport is pretty much way out there for unscientific thinking, irrespective of what the Loon Encyclopedia says.

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            joseph

            But . . . . . some of his thinking is scientific, and of a high standard, imho. He’s been presenting some thought provoking material concerning what’s taking place at the moment that is not going to be addressed as part of the mainstream media coverage. The vaccine issue is a big one. Hmmmm . . . think I’ll go out to Loon Encyclopaedia and see what they have to say about Del Bigtree . . . . .

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      DOC

      Joseph, it’s all a matter of balance. The USA (I’m no lawyer) recently changed the law such that
      anybody apparently nearing death had the choice to opt to try experimental medications – usually in
      trials – if they chose. Presumably, that choice would be their own if capable, or that of their legal representative.
      I remember Trump making the announcement in one of his very recent addresses in the middle of the night.

      Most of the doctors interviewed on the networks (Fox and CNN) make the statement about the Chloroquin, Hydroxychlor., and Azithromycin
      that if proven (or passed for use early) still have to have dosages, times of onset of application and duration worked out for use.

      Any medicine taken orally, by injection or in any other fashion, always has a very long list of side effects. This doesn’t give more
      than common, uncommon, and rare rates of occurrence. The complete run down is given for med.-legal cover. The bottom line is, any time
      a doctor or nurse administers a medicine there is something that can go wrong! Even giving water could similarly be provided
      with an arm length column of ‘side effects.’ In anaesthetics it’s: ‘you could die’ and give a frequency.

      Medicolegal payments are high. ‘Full knowledge’ in legal terms is given by demand of Insurance companies. Patients range from wanting it to wanting
      nothing to do with it because it terrifies them. It’s a tricky road, legally, to miss anything. That’s what you are reading on that website.

      The epidemic problem is happening so fast, enough people either dying or having their lungs screwed up for life (by public accounts), or filling hospitals for so long that the systems collapse under the weight of this bug. I observe it seems to be taking a long time for the recovering numbers to drop.

      Trump’s team (presumably; or maybe just Trump) see the advantages of diminution in all these factors if these drugs work, and
      taking the shape of the economy into account no doubt, that they changed the laws on risk for the medical teams to speed up using any advances.

      For balance, if you have a strong heart, I suggest you look up the possible drug interactions using azithromycin! That’s why there is caution and
      why doses, timing and duration are important. It’s a matter of balancing risk and reward – for the patients!

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        joseph

        DOC,
        Much to consider isn’t there. I couldn’t reply earlier because I had to be away for the rest of the day after I’d posted.
        There is just so much happening on so many levels! And, yes, it is a very tricky road. Unfortunately, I’m not able to enthuse over anything that gives pharma additional opportunity to misbehave, without consequences. Their record leaves a lot to be desired.
        There’s a new thread already so don’t know if you’ll get back to this one . . . . . trying to keep up with it all . . . but failing . . . .
        Cheers

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    Another Ian

    And, for a spike in cheap bridge sales

    “UN: Embrace the Paris Agreement to Solve the Covid-19 Crisis”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/03/23/un-embrace-the-paris-agreement-to-solve-the-covid-19-crisis/

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    DOC

    The cruise ships are what has given curry to the WA numbers.
    Today’s increase in numbers are evidently all related to the ships – and 2 children, siblings 4yo and 10yo are included.

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    Another Ian

    TP maths

    ” 425 sheets per roll =

    12,750 sheets per case =

    20 Sheets per crap =

    637.5 shits per case =

    45.5 shits per day =

    So a person that grabs 4 cases of TP

    from Costco and has a family of four

    quarantined for the required 14 days would

    need to crap 182 times per day to use the

    purchased amount of TP at 20 sheets per crap

    Lets all calm down. ”

    https://www.redpowermagazine.com/forums/topic/128696-thought-this-would-make-people-laugh-at-this-hard-time/?tab=comments#comment-1403838

    TP song up thread too

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    Rudi K

    Any thoughts on this, Jo?

    “VIRAL LOAD

    Written by a doctor working in a U.K. hospital.
    This is important!
    Might explain why some get COV19 mildly and recover fast whereas some Drs and nurses treating it in hospital die of it:
    Why do we need to shut places where people group?

    With this virus, the amount of virus in your blood at first infection directly relates to the severity of the illness you will suffer. This isn’t unusual – HIV management is all about reducing viral load to keep people alive longer. BUT it’s very important in COVID-19.
    So if you are at a venue with 200 people and a large number don’t have symptoms but are shedding, you are breathing in lots of droplets per minute and absorbing a high load of the virus. In a crowded space. They become ill over the next 48 hours. You then three days later wonder why you can’t breathe and end up in hospital. You’d decided because you were young and healthy it wasn’t going to be a problem.
    Wrong.
    Fortunately but unfortunately because the elderly are isolating quite well, the initial UK data suggests that all age groups above 20 are almost equally represented in ITUs in England. Most of the cases are in London but the wave is moving outwards.
    This means that being under 60 and fit and well doesn’t seem to be as protective as we thought. Why? Viral load.
    This may be skewed simply by the fact that too many Londoners didn’t do as asked and congregated in large groups in confined spaces and got a large initial viral load. They then went home and infected their wider families. Which is why, as London is overwhelmed, we need to shut everything down to save the rest of the UK. We are a week at most behind London.
    Our sympathies go out to the families affected in London and the critical care teams battling right now to save as many as they can.
    If I sit with one person and catch this virus, I get a small viral load. My immune system will start to fight it and by the time the virus starts replicating, I’m ready to kill it.
    No medicines will help this process meaningfully hence there is no “cure” for this virus. All we can do is support you with a ventilator and hope your immune system can catch up fast enough.
    If I sit in the same room with six people, all shedding I get six times the initial dose. The rise in viral load is faster than my immune system can cope with and it is overrun. I then become critically ill and need me (or an ITU/HDU specialist) to fix it instead of just being at home and being ok in the end.
    THIS BIT IS IMPORTANT:
    If you are a large family group, remember that by being ill and in the same room, you will make each other ill or “more ill”. If you get sick, isolate just yourself to one room and stay there. Don’t all sit in one room coughing. You will increase the viral load for all of you, reducing your survival rate.
    A family of six people may produce double the droplets of a family of three in the same space. Maths is important.
    If one of you is symptomatic, assume you are all shedding and make sure you keep some space.
    Parents are getting it from their kids because no one is going to stop comforting their child (nor should they) so the parent gets a big hit as well as the child. I don’t think that can be helped.
    REMEMBER: THINK ABOUT VIRAL LOAD
    It could save your life or your child’s.
    Britain, it’s up to you now. We are preparing for the worst but we are hoping for the best from you. Please help us to help you. Stay home and take this seriously now before we need the army on the streets to remind you. Yes I’m serious.”

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      Possibly, but it’s likely just one factor — could be that a young active immune system is much faster to act to keep viral loads under control. Perhaps older folks immune systems allow it to keep reproducing for a few extra hours, or a day or two, which would be the real viral load. “Billions”.

      There is probably something in what you say, since small numbers would amplify up faster, but in most viruses the exponential growth is savage and the difference with acting after 18 hours compared to after 12 is probably magnitudes larger.

      It is likely in the wash we will find out that some people were predisposed genetically and through environmental factors (smoking, pollution) to getting a bad version. Some people don’t express many ACE receptors, some ACE receptors are mutated to be a bad fit for the virus, and some people will be prone to cytokine storms.
      Jo

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      Chad

      It seems like reasonable advice, however i am curious about this comment ..

      No medicines will help this process meaningfully …….

      But i was under the impression that the “quinine” based drugs and other “anti virals” do exactly that…IE,..slow down the build up of the virus in the blood..??
      Or have i misunderstood something here ?

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    Rocket Rod

    Daily news tidbits:

    A lesson for everyone else !
    South Korea sets up phone booths that can test people for Covid in 7 minutes!

    Over 60 in Italy?
    No respirators for you…

    No gender reassignments surgeries until Covid gone.
    How sad.Not. Try a shrink instead.

    UN – embrace the Paris Accord to solve the Covid crisis !
    Ahhh yessss… now we start to see the reason for the disproportionate hype eh?
    The Co2 lie was failing so capitalise on Covid.

    P.S. I’ve just realised that links need to have the tags closed manually (unlike every other blog I frequent) so apologies for past posts missing links (unless the mods fixed ‘em that is).
    I assumed links were to be approved before showing to prevent spam. Duh.

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    williamx

    Ok this is alleged advice given by an email to my brother from an employee at Royal Brisbane hospital.

    Is this true I do not know.

    Here is what I was sent by my brother.

    transcript begins
    :

    “This has just been forwarded to me from a friend at the ED at the base.

    this is advice given to hospital staff. Explains the virus and how to prevent the virus.
    Internal email for RBH (Royal Brisbane Hospital) staff:

    Virus Detection:

    The simplest way to distinguish Coronavirus from a Common Cold is that the COVID-19 infection does not cause a cold nose or cough with cold, but it does create a dry and rough cough.
    The virus is typically first installed in the throat causing inflammation and a feeling of dryness. This symptom can last between 3 and 4 days.
    The virus typically then travels through the moisture present in the airways, goes down to the trachea and installs in the lungs, causing pneumonia that lasts about 5 or 6 days.
    Pneumonia manifests with a high fever and difficulty breathing. The Common Cold is not accompanied, but there may be a choking sensation. In this case, the doctor should be called immediately.

    Experts suggest doing this simple verification every morning: Breathe in deeply and hold your breath for 10 seconds. If this can be done without coughing, without difficulty, this shows that there is no fibrosis in the lungs, indicating the absence of infection. It is recommended to do this control every morning to help detect infection.

    Prevention:
    The virus hates heat and dies if it is exposed to temperatures greater than 80°F (27°C). Therefore hot drinks such as infusions, broths or simply hot water should be consumed abundantly during the day. These hot liquids kill the virus and are easy to ingest.
    Avoid drinking ice water or drinks with ice cubes.

    Ensure that your mouth and throat are always wet, never DRY. You should drink a sip of water at least every 15 minutes. WHY? Even when the virus enters water or other liquids through the mouth, it will get flushed through the oesophagus directly into the stomach where gastric acids destroy the virus. If there is not enough water, the virus can pass into the trachea and from there to the lungs, where it is very dangerous.

    For those who can, sunbathe. The Sun’s UV rays kill the virus and the vitamin D is good for you.
    The Coronavirus has a large size (diameter of 400-500 nanometers) so face masks can stop it, no special face masks are needed in daily life.
    If an infected person sneezes near us, stay 10 feet (3.3 meters) away to allow the virus fall to the ground and prevent it from falling on you.
    When the virus is on hard surfaces, it survives about 12 hours, therefore when hard surfaces such as doors, appliances, railings, etc. are touched, hands should be washed thoroughly and/or disinfected with alcoholic gel
    The virus can live nested in clothes and tissues between 6 and 12 hours. Common detergents can kill it. Things that cannot be washed should be exposed to the Sun and the virus will die.
    The transmission of the virus usually occurs by direct infection, touching fabrics, tissues or materials on which the virus is present.
    Washing your hands is essential.
    The virus survives on our hands for only about 10 minutes. In that time many things can happen, rubbing the eyes, touching the nose or lips. This allows the virus to enter your throat. Therefore, for your good and the good of all, wash your hands very often and disinfect them.
    You can gargle with disinfectant solutions (i.e. Listerine or Hydrogen Peroxide) that eliminate or minimize the amount of virus that can enter the throat. Doing so removes the virus before it goes down to the trachea and then to the lungs.
    Disinfect things touched often: cellphone, keyboard, mouse, car steering wheel, door handles, etc”

    end transcript.

    I have deleted the senders name.

    I rely on others more knowledgeable than me to freely respond to the transcript above.

    Please do. Discuss.

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      williamx

      To be clear I deleted the RBH employees name in the transcript.

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      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      Thanks for that wx.
      The bit about temperature under the heading “Prevention” is a worry, on two fronts: (someone commented on this in an earlier post) how come it even exists in the human body in its healthy state?, and it seems to be surviving remarkably well in SE Asia…
      But I liked the bit about UV.
      Cheers
      Dave B

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      yarpos

      so glad we got rid of those nasty single use supermarket bags and are now dragging cloth bags in and out of supermarkets so the cashiers can handle them and they can rest on surfaces and trolleys

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    PeterS

    Overnight US markets are limit up. Either it’s temporary short covering or the beginnings of the sling shot up move I’m expecting. We’ll know soon enough.

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      yarpos

      Plenty of bargains out there for those who beleive life will go on

      I am interested to see what gold and silver do

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        robert rosicka

        Yes there will be for those in the know , toilet paper futures maybe ?

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        toorightmate

        Gold still seems to be attractive to some governments on an intermittent basis.
        Silver has done nothing for at least 60 years, so I can’t see that changing any time soon.

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        PeterS

        Silver is a better buy than gold given the ratio. However, I suspect both still have lower to go once the current crisis is over. Then I would accumulate both for the next major crisis. There is a real risk though governments will outlaw ownership of gold at the next crisis. It has happened before. Silver and other precious metals might be included next time around.

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          toorightmate

          It’s a bloody long time since Ag was a precious metal.
          It’s main use for decades was for solder and the solder blobs just keep getting smaller.
          Silver was very valuable when the ancient Chinese preferred it to gold for jewellery. The Chinese are not ancient any more.

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      Sceptical Sam

      It’s likely a reactive Wave II. If so, Wave III down is yet to come.

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        PeterS

        Possibly. So are you selling CFDs, futures or the like to make you millions? If not then you like me simply don’t know for sure. Time will tell. Either way it would make sense to start accumulating shares in say a month unless the worst case scenario is in play and we have a full scale depression that will most likely last for years. In that case there’s no rush to buy shares at all for some time. As usual time will tell.

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    Doc

    Apart from being pedantic, couldn’t see much wrong in logic.
    It seems this virus is transmitted more from surfaces than by cough and sneeze. That’s
    regardless of splitting surfaces into hard and soft or wood, plastics and materials. The key
    is obviously spatial separation for the cough and cleaning surfaces / gloves/ hands for contact points.
    It seems now, the third point, the throat requires frequent washdown , like the mits.
    I’ll follow that regime, being in the aged bracket – but I would remind everyone, 2 kids went down today.

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      Doc

      Just a thought.
      Williams’s avoidance material above.
      What a change! Man eating virus to kill it in the acid bath of the stomach!
      How goods that? Virus as food!

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    Doc

    On another tack. WA ONLY HAS 2.5m people.
    Government should get hold of enough testing kits and test the hell out of the community, find
    the extent of the problem while the borders are slammed tight. If the problem is small, apply
    everything that’s needed to keep it that way and go all out to get mining and agriculture in
    action for the sake of the country. If necessary get the Feds to help reopening those closed
    railway lines , trucks off the road, and get some economy running – u der strict controls by
    Frequent testing for the bug. The nation has to keep rolling even if it’s selective where itcan happen.
    Use the epidemiological experts as guidance; it’s gold if we can do it.

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      Sceptical Sam

      Yep. But how negligent was NSW? Has anybody been sacked yet? Don’t hold your breath.

      Apparently, some 35 of Western Australia’s newly-diagnosed cases were passengers on board the “Ruby Princess” which docked in Sydney last week. They came straight off the cruise, took transport to Sydney airport, flew to Perth, walked through the airport and then went home – presumably by taxi UBER or with family. No checks at any point. None.

      What tracking has been undertaken on these donkeys? What tracking has be undertaken on those who came in contact with them? Do any of the taxi drivers who took them home know they were infectious? The UBER drivers?

      It’s also reported that four cases diagnosed in WA, were passengers on the “Ovation of the Seas” which docked in Sydney on 18 March. Same stupidity. Same negligence. Same public servants.

      NSW Government and its Health Department, plus Border Control are negligent. It’s beyond incompetence. It’s criminal negligence in my view. Legal action should be taken.

      No wonder the Australian people have such a low, low view of government agencies and employees. It’s despicable.

      It’s beyond stupidity. It’s criminal.

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        robert rosicka

        Can’t find any mention of the Border Force boss throwing the NSW health minister under a bus this morning over over the Ruby Princess stuff up after Border Force were criticised for the stuff up this guy lay out exactly what happened and where the buck stopped .
        He did dodge the usual “are you accusing” questions about the health minister though .

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    toorightmate

    Just watched PM’s address on new protective measures.
    I came away with the view that we have a very good prime minister and a hopelessly pathetic mob of journalists in Canberra.
    There were more than 10 in that gathering, so I suggest that the journalists be gaoled.
    The journos have not come to grips with the fact that Morrison won the last election – against their “learned” predictions (similar to the USA journos failing to accept that Trump won his election).

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    Slithers

    Sorry to rain on everyone’s parade, but the news is bad and going to get much much worse, because you see there are not enough resources to test and then quarantine more than a few percent of the worlds population!

    The USA has tested less than one percent of it’s population!!!!

    Testing kits have been available for almost three months so do the math how long to test everyone?

    The data about how many test kits, resources of materials and technical staff to do more tests here in Australia is not known, but I don’t see any help coming here from another country any time soon!

    In other words if people do not take significant steps to self isolate more and more people will become infected.

    The more people who are infected means yet more people will contract this virus as Jo has been pointing out.

    Now with other viral infections most of the population only get that strain once, perhaps a second time the next year.

    CONVID-19 may be very different, the medical profession just don’t know if we can get it multiple times and absolutely nothing is known about the potential mutation of this scourge!

    The Iranian/Italian strain seems to be a really nasty version, but there is no data on that!

    Self-Isolate, follow the guidelines don’t expose your self un-necessarily!

    The message here has been SELF-ISOLATE how ever painful that may be!

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      toorightmate

      One story doing the rounds is that Beijing sent 60,000 test kits to Prague. 80% of them were NBG (made in China??).

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      yarpos

      a bunch of assertions and extrapolations and opinions is hardly likely to affect anyones parade

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    Sunni Bakchat

    An aspect of the Italian experience with Coronavirus that has been overlooked is the strong Anti-vaccine culture that exists in the country.

    This link demonstrates the origins and present level of antipathy towards vaccination – https://www.newstatesman.com/world/2019/02/deadly-symptoms-italy-s-anti-vaccination-movement

    Even though this is a novel virus and no vaccine is yet available, one wonders about the Italian view of medicine in general. Experience suggests a heavy emphasis on nursing. Perhaps the religious disposition of Italians informs their perspective on vaccines and medicine in general?

    Certainly if 50% of the population has a disdain for vaccination, the notion that moral hazard is prevalent in thinking about seasonal viruses outbreaks, is entirely plausible.

    There are no doubt other epidemiological aspects to community intransigence on vaccination. None so important as to how Italians will view the vaccine that ultimately becomes available for Covid-19!

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    William Astley

    I am all for extreme isolation. It is however killing our economy.

    Here is one of two paradigm changing medical breakthroughs that might end the coronal virus crisis.

    https://www.foxnews.com/media/dr-jacob-glanville-antibody-neutralize-coronavirus

    https://www.distributedbio.com/covid19

    A US company, ‘Distributed Bio’ have developed a technique that produces Corvid-19 anti-bodies that they believe will kill the virus in the body and provide the body with 8 weeks protection against Corvid-19.

    The first tests of the new antibody, to test for virus killing effectiveness, will be July of this year in the US.

    If all goes well, mass production of the antibodies and use in humans could start in September, 2020, this year.

    This is different than a vaccine.

    A vaccine is given to healthy people so they can give their body the capacity to produce antibodies.

    This new technology (other companies are working on the same new technique) directly produces the antibody.

    The antibody can then be given to sick people by injection and within 20 minutes the injected antibodies will start to kill the virus in the body of the infected.

    The antibody can also be given to health people (target group, health care works) and if it works it will provide them with 8 weeks of protection against the virus.

    The second is the development of a universal vaccine. A number of companies are working on developing a vaccine that attacks the portion of the virus that does not and cannot change.

    Current vaccines less effective every year and not effective certain years because the viruses change.

    A universal vaccine if it worked would provide virus production for an entire class of viruses, including future mutated viruses.

    The same company I linked to above is working on a universal vaccine.

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    Another Ian

    Willis E has a look at Italy

    “The Italian Connection”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/03/24/the-italian-connection/

    “And it’s also why the death rate in Italy is so high—these people were already very ill. I can see why the Italians are distinguishing between dying FROM the virus and dying WITH the virus.”

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    Another Ian

    Something else

    “Temperature.Global”

    “Temperature.Global calculates the current global temperature of the Earth. It uses unadjusted surface temperatures. The current temperature is the 12M average mean surface temperature over the last 12 months compared against the 30 year mean. New observations are entered each minute and the site is updated accordingly. This site was created by professional meteorologists and climatologists with over 25 years experience in surface weather observations. ”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2020/03/24/temperature-global/

    has link

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    el gordo

    Bear Market Bounce in the US, but it feels unsustainable.

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    el gordo

    ‘NSW Police Commissioner Mick Fuller has revealed a raft of new powers granted to police for individuals and corporations who flout social distancing laws.’ SMH

    10