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	<title>Comments on: Coronavirus demographics &#8212; very much a risk for older people and the strange split in severe case rates 0 &#8211; 15%</title>
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	<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2020/02/coronavirus-demographics-very-much-a-risk-for-older-people-and-the-strange-split-in-severe-case-rate/</link>
	<description>A perfectly good civilization is going to waste...</description>
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		<title>By: Interesting Items 02/24 &#8211; Interesting Items</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2020/02/coronavirus-demographics-very-much-a-risk-for-older-people-and-the-strange-split-in-severe-case-rate/#comment-2280841</link>
		<dc:creator>Interesting Items 02/24 &#8211; Interesting Items</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Feb 2020 20:17:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] The Diamond Princess was a cruise ship on a trip to China that was put into quarantine in Japan. There were 135 cases on Feb 11.  Today there are 542, with 15% being severe.  People onboard hailed from over 50 countries and the quarantine was ended allowing people to return home.  This in turn led to passengers on those flights being also quarantined when they got home. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Diamond Princess was a cruise ship on a trip to China that was put into quarantine in Japan. There were 135 cases on Feb 11.  Today there are 542, with 15% being severe.  People onboard hailed from over 50 countries and the quarantine was ended allowing people to return home.  This in turn led to passengers on those flights being also quarantined when they got home. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Golfsailor</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2020/02/coronavirus-demographics-very-much-a-risk-for-older-people-and-the-strange-split-in-severe-case-rate/#comment-2279315</link>
		<dc:creator>Golfsailor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Feb 2020 17:56:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannenova.com.au/?p=69415#comment-2279315</guid>
		<description>The big consequences may come to rescue a lot of government financial problems going on at least in Europe. This actually is probably cause firing of theories why not already quarantine Japan. Health expertise in Sweden as of yesterday said there was no or very little threat in Europe. At the moment that may be true but, traveling from Singapore, Japan and South Korea is still not restricted and will only stop when it’s too late. 

Yesterday we were invited to a sailing yacht for a day cruise outside Los Angeles on Sunday. It’sa friend who recently was in China. Three weeks ago. But to get out he had to travel to Japan first, stay one week before travel to USA. May I add, unnoticed. I will not go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The big consequences may come to rescue a lot of government financial problems going on at least in Europe. This actually is probably cause firing of theories why not already quarantine Japan. Health expertise in Sweden as of yesterday said there was no or very little threat in Europe. At the moment that may be true but, traveling from Singapore, Japan and South Korea is still not restricted and will only stop when it’s too late. </p>
<p>Yesterday we were invited to a sailing yacht for a day cruise outside Los Angeles on Sunday. It’sa friend who recently was in China. Three weeks ago. But to get out he had to travel to Japan first, stay one week before travel to USA. May I add, unnoticed. I will not go.</p>
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		<title>By: Lloyd W. Robertson</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2020/02/coronavirus-demographics-very-much-a-risk-for-older-people-and-the-strange-split-in-severe-case-rate/#comment-2279255</link>
		<dc:creator>Lloyd W. Robertson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Feb 2020 12:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannenova.com.au/?p=69415#comment-2279255</guid>
		<description>As Jo says, any reference to death rates now is known to be wrong--mild cases would be understated in any country--people get slightly sick and go back to work, or don&#039;t get symptoms. In China no one thinks there is a widespread testing for this virus going on. There are not enough medical resources for normal circumstances, and certainly not enough for general testing. The bigger the number of mild cases turns out to be against the known deaths, the lower the death rate. It is very low.

So: to mention 15% of people 80 and over dying is worse that stating, say, 2% overall. Are these seniors more likely to be reported for mild symptoms, or less likely? As long as we know many of them who have the virus are not being reported at all, we know that 15% is much too high. The clearer news, so far, is that people who are not 80 and over are at little risk of death, even if they are tested and found to have the virus.

More infectious than SARS. Far less virulent than SARS. Of course it makes a less dramatic story to say that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Jo says, any reference to death rates now is known to be wrong&#8211;mild cases would be understated in any country&#8211;people get slightly sick and go back to work, or don&#8217;t get symptoms. In China no one thinks there is a widespread testing for this virus going on. There are not enough medical resources for normal circumstances, and certainly not enough for general testing. The bigger the number of mild cases turns out to be against the known deaths, the lower the death rate. It is very low.</p>
<p>So: to mention 15% of people 80 and over dying is worse that stating, say, 2% overall. Are these seniors more likely to be reported for mild symptoms, or less likely? As long as we know many of them who have the virus are not being reported at all, we know that 15% is much too high. The clearer news, so far, is that people who are not 80 and over are at little risk of death, even if they are tested and found to have the virus.</p>
<p>More infectious than SARS. Far less virulent than SARS. Of course it makes a less dramatic story to say that.</p>
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		<title>By: Orson Olson</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2020/02/coronavirus-demographics-very-much-a-risk-for-older-people-and-the-strange-split-in-severe-case-rate/#comment-2279242</link>
		<dc:creator>Orson Olson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Feb 2020 11:58:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannenova.com.au/?p=69415#comment-2279242</guid>
		<description>SORRY - I have embarrassed myself because the CORRECTED calculation - for infection doubling times - is much much, more scary. 

At 7 day doubling rates, it only takes 7 weeks for the world ex-China to become today&#039;s official China size: from 1,000 to 64,000. And only another 7 week of weekly doubling to reach 8,000,000. With merely 6 more weeks (ie, week 20), we reach 1 billion cases. 

Thus, in less than two months, a head steam starts, and in less than another two, 8 million cases in East Asia? China&#039;s harsh 5 weeks quarantine is coming to nearby nations to try and slow the mighty train of infection.

How will summer slow this fierce and impossible freight train of infection? We hope tropical Singapore show us some differential evidence in the next month. We need time to improve near real time infections tools to sort people and contain the threat. We need more time to prove the effectiveness of anti-virals and produce and distributee both of these tools.

Life will go on after Covid19 pandemic. But it will be demographically changed with big consequences to the age pyramid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SORRY &#8211; I have embarrassed myself because the CORRECTED calculation &#8211; for infection doubling times &#8211; is much much, more scary. </p>
<p>At 7 day doubling rates, it only takes 7 weeks for the world ex-China to become today&#8217;s official China size: from 1,000 to 64,000. And only another 7 week of weekly doubling to reach 8,000,000. With merely 6 more weeks (ie, week 20), we reach 1 billion cases. </p>
<p>Thus, in less than two months, a head steam starts, and in less than another two, 8 million cases in East Asia? China&#8217;s harsh 5 weeks quarantine is coming to nearby nations to try and slow the mighty train of infection.</p>
<p>How will summer slow this fierce and impossible freight train of infection? We hope tropical Singapore show us some differential evidence in the next month. We need time to improve near real time infections tools to sort people and contain the threat. We need more time to prove the effectiveness of anti-virals and produce and distributee both of these tools.</p>
<p>Life will go on after Covid19 pandemic. But it will be demographically changed with big consequences to the age pyramid.</p>
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		<title>By: Power Grab</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2020/02/coronavirus-demographics-very-much-a-risk-for-older-people-and-the-strange-split-in-severe-case-rate/#comment-2279135</link>
		<dc:creator>Power Grab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Feb 2020 06:27:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It has also occurred to me that the Chinese are taking this opportunity to eliminate &quot;thought criminals&quot;. The timing relative to the Hong Kong unrest is concerning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It has also occurred to me that the Chinese are taking this opportunity to eliminate &#8220;thought criminals&#8221;. The timing relative to the Hong Kong unrest is concerning.</p>
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		<title>By: Power Grab</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2020/02/coronavirus-demographics-very-much-a-risk-for-older-people-and-the-strange-split-in-severe-case-rate/#comment-2279133</link>
		<dc:creator>Power Grab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Feb 2020 06:20:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannenova.com.au/?p=69415#comment-2279133</guid>
		<description>I saw an item today (probably on Twitter) that said that people who had previously been vaccinated with the SARS vaccine were more likely to die from Winnie the Flu. I like that name better than COVID-19, or whatever version of that they&#039;re using now. When they keep changing the labels, I find it hard to keep up.

Another item said that if you got Winnie the Flu and recovered, then got it again some weeks later, it was worse and more likely to kill you.

I don&#039;t remember when SARS was in the headlines, but perhaps younger people are less likely to die because they didn&#039;t have the SARS vaccine.

One more thing I saw is that Wuhan was the test bed for 5G, which many are saying is more harmful to humans than its predecessors.

I watched 10 or 12 videos from China today that showed the authorities attacking people walking the streets, beating them up, and hauling them off. Some of the descriptions said the victims suddenly took ill and had to be &quot;assisted&quot;, but it occurs to me that since food is so scarce, people who collapse on the street might simply be starving.

I&#039;m inclined to believe that, most of the time, the &quot;treatment&quot; is worse than the disease.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw an item today (probably on Twitter) that said that people who had previously been vaccinated with the SARS vaccine were more likely to die from Winnie the Flu. I like that name better than COVID-19, or whatever version of that they&#8217;re using now. When they keep changing the labels, I find it hard to keep up.</p>
<p>Another item said that if you got Winnie the Flu and recovered, then got it again some weeks later, it was worse and more likely to kill you.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t remember when SARS was in the headlines, but perhaps younger people are less likely to die because they didn&#8217;t have the SARS vaccine.</p>
<p>One more thing I saw is that Wuhan was the test bed for 5G, which many are saying is more harmful to humans than its predecessors.</p>
<p>I watched 10 or 12 videos from China today that showed the authorities attacking people walking the streets, beating them up, and hauling them off. Some of the descriptions said the victims suddenly took ill and had to be &#8220;assisted&#8221;, but it occurs to me that since food is so scarce, people who collapse on the street might simply be starving.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m inclined to believe that, most of the time, the &#8220;treatment&#8221; is worse than the disease.</p>
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		<title>By: Gee Aye</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2020/02/coronavirus-demographics-very-much-a-risk-for-older-people-and-the-strange-split-in-severe-case-rate/#comment-2278982</link>
		<dc:creator>Gee Aye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Feb 2020 22:54:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannenova.com.au/?p=69415#comment-2278982</guid>
		<description>pure nonsense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pure nonsense.</p>
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		<title>By: Gee Aye</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2020/02/coronavirus-demographics-very-much-a-risk-for-older-people-and-the-strange-split-in-severe-case-rate/#comment-2278980</link>
		<dc:creator>Gee Aye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Feb 2020 22:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>btw the vector was fleas, the thing that caused people to be infected. Rats moved them about a sort of literal carrier..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>btw the vector was fleas, the thing that caused people to be infected. Rats moved them about a sort of literal carrier..</p>
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		<title>By: Gee Aye</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2020/02/coronavirus-demographics-very-much-a-risk-for-older-people-and-the-strange-split-in-severe-case-rate/#comment-2278979</link>
		<dc:creator>Gee Aye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Feb 2020 22:51:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannenova.com.au/?p=69415#comment-2278979</guid>
		<description>no kidding... sigh</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>no kidding&#8230; sigh</p>
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		<title>By: Watcher of the road</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2020/02/coronavirus-demographics-very-much-a-risk-for-older-people-and-the-strange-split-in-severe-case-rate/#comment-2278848</link>
		<dc:creator>Watcher of the road</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Feb 2020 17:52:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannenova.com.au/?p=69415#comment-2278848</guid>
		<description>Thanks v. much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks v. much.</p>
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		<title>By: David A</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2020/02/coronavirus-demographics-very-much-a-risk-for-older-people-and-the-strange-split-in-severe-case-rate/#comment-2278845</link>
		<dc:creator>David A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Feb 2020 17:31:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Konrad, I think you will find this reasonably credible...
https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/china-officially-announces-that-the-coronavirus-can-be-airborne-and-can-be-conditionally-spread-via-aerosol-transmission-</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Konrad, I think you will find this reasonably credible&#8230;<br />
<a href="https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/china-officially-announces-that-the-coronavirus-can-be-airborne-and-can-be-conditionally-spread-via-aerosol-transmission-" rel="nofollow">https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/china-officially-announces-that-the-coronavirus-can-be-airborne-and-can-be-conditionally-spread-via-aerosol-transmission-</a></p>
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		<title>By: Konrad</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2020/02/coronavirus-demographics-very-much-a-risk-for-older-people-and-the-strange-split-in-severe-case-rate/#comment-2278840</link>
		<dc:creator>Konrad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Feb 2020 17:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>No LC, not this time.

Sure, given time a normal novel virus will mutate to a form less lethal to its host.

But if that virus was bioengineered, then there are two directions mutations could take it in the first few months/ years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No LC, not this time.</p>
<p>Sure, given time a normal novel virus will mutate to a form less lethal to its host.</p>
<p>But if that virus was bioengineered, then there are two directions mutations could take it in the first few months/ years.</p>
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		<title>By: Konrad</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2020/02/coronavirus-demographics-very-much-a-risk-for-older-people-and-the-strange-split-in-severe-case-rate/#comment-2278816</link>
		<dc:creator>Konrad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Feb 2020 15:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It will be fun to look back at this post after the dust settles. (I&#039;m a bit busy ATM keeping my friends with south east Asian ancestry safe, while the &quot;trusted authorities&quot; lie and lie and lie).

That red thumb is a historical marker. A permanent record of how some respond to the truth, no matter how politely minimized.

Let&#039;s focus. We do have a serious problem, and no amount of lying is going to solve it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It will be fun to look back at this post after the dust settles. (I&#8217;m a bit busy ATM keeping my friends with south east Asian ancestry safe, while the &#8220;trusted authorities&#8221; lie and lie and lie).</p>
<p>That red thumb is a historical marker. A permanent record of how some respond to the truth, no matter how politely minimized.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s focus. We do have a serious problem, and no amount of lying is going to solve it.</p>
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		<title>By: Konrad</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2020/02/coronavirus-demographics-very-much-a-risk-for-older-people-and-the-strange-split-in-severe-case-rate/#comment-2278700</link>
		<dc:creator>Konrad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Feb 2020 10:33:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannenova.com.au/?p=69415#comment-2278700</guid>
		<description>Indeed it is hard to confirm. SARS had (apparently) a higher mortality rate. The autopsies showed kidney and testicular damage.

Unfortunately all dead in China from &quot;Winne the Flu&quot; are being immediately cremated. No autopsies are being done. 

With 40 mobile furnaces, each with a capacity of 5 tonnes of &quot;material&quot; per day, recently being trucked into Wuhan, we&#039;ll have to wait on scientific data on those that have &quot;recovered&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed it is hard to confirm. SARS had (apparently) a higher mortality rate. The autopsies showed kidney and testicular damage.</p>
<p>Unfortunately all dead in China from &#8220;Winne the Flu&#8221; are being immediately cremated. No autopsies are being done. </p>
<p>With 40 mobile furnaces, each with a capacity of 5 tonnes of &#8220;material&#8221; per day, recently being trucked into Wuhan, we&#8217;ll have to wait on scientific data on those that have &#8220;recovered&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill In Oz</title>
		<link>http://joannenova.com.au/2020/02/coronavirus-demographics-very-much-a-risk-for-older-people-and-the-strange-split-in-severe-case-rate/#comment-2278698</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill In Oz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Feb 2020 10:31:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://joannenova.com.au/?p=69415#comment-2278698</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s remarkable that it is all being done by local authorities
And that possibly infected persons from the church
Are being asked to self isolate !
I do not think that the South Korean government  
Has the balls to sort out this issue
Any more than Japan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s remarkable that it is all being done by local authorities<br />
And that possibly infected persons from the church<br />
Are being asked to self isolate !<br />
I do not think that the South Korean government<br />
Has the balls to sort out this issue<br />
Any more than Japan.</p>
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