JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Tuesday Open Thread

So much to discuss. Time for two unthreaded lines midweek.

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Tuesday Open Thread, 9.2 out of 10 based on 34 ratings

212 comments to Tuesday Open Thread

  • #
    Langwog

    Goven all the hype around our record heat and climate induced bushfires has anyone questioned why climate change has also delivered an unseasonably cool and dry Spring/Summer to Northern Tasmania. One is just weather I assume but not both??0

    150

  • #
    pat

    smile:

    19 Jan: Breitbart: Poll: Trump Approval Among Farmers Hits Record High at 83%
    by Kyle Morris
    According to the latest Farm Journal Pulse Poll, which featured responses from 1,286 farmers, President Trump received an approval rating of 83 percent, a point higher than the previous poll…
    “Of note is the strongly approve category went up three percentage points from an already lofty (December) number and his highest overall approval ratings ever,” said Pro Farmer policy analyst Jim Wiesemeyer.
    “That says the president’s approval is rock-solid,” Wiesemeyer added. “With the recent upbeat news on USMCA and the Phase 1 accord with China, the ratings will likely remain firm ahead.”…
    In accordance with the latest poll results, President Trump also spoke at the American Farm Bureau Federation’s annual convention in Austin, Texas, where he praised the many accomplishments of American farmers.
    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/01/19/poll-trump-approval-among-farmers-hits-record-high-at-83/

    19 Jan: White House: Remarks by President Trump at the American Farm Bureau Federation Annual Convention and Trade Show – Austin Texas
    So, this rule gave bureaucrats virtually unlimited authority to regulate stock tanks, drainage ditches, and isolated ponds as navigable waterways and navigable water. You believe that? Sometimes, you’d have a puddle — a little puddle. And they’d consider that a lake. As long as I’m President, government will never micromanage America’s farmers. You’re going to micromanage your own farm, and that’s the way it should be. (Applause.).

    And, today, I’m proud to announce that I am taking yet another step to protect the water rights of American farmers and ranchers. Under the previous administration, the Army Corps of Engineers proposed a new Water Supply rule that would give the federal government vast and unlimited power to restrict farmers’ access to water. That’s not a good thing. Is anybody happy with being restricted to water if you have a farm? Please stand up if you are happy about that. Because this authority rightfully belongs to the states, not the bureaucrats in Washington, D.C.

    That is why I am directing the Corps of Engineers to immediately withdraw the proposed rule — just submitted recently, meaning last administration — and allow states to manage their water resources based on their own needs and based on what their farmers and ranchers want. (Applause.) Water is the lifeblood of agriculture, and we will always protect your water supply. (Applause.)…

    In everything we do, we are putting the needs of American workers, families, and farmers first. We are putting America first. (Applause.)…

    Farmers have always been the keepers of our great American values. You champion the love of family, the dignity of work, and the glory of God. You teach your children to celebrate our nation, defend our freedom, honor our values, and to always respect and cherish our great American flag. (Applause.)

    AUDIENCE: USA! USA! USA!…
    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-american-farm-bureau-federation-annual-convention-trade-show/

    101

    • #
      pat

      18 Jan: The Hill: Poll: Overwhelming majority say news media making US more politically divided
      by Tess Bonn
      An overwhelming majority of voters say the news media is making the United States more politically divided, according to a Hill-HarrisX poll released Friday.
      The survey of 1,001 registered voters found that 75 percent believe that the way news is reported increases the political divide, compared to only 7 percent who say it has made the county less politically divided…

      Eighty-four percent of GOP voters and 74 of Democratic voters believe the news media has contributed an increase in political polarization throughout the nation, as did 69 percent of independents…
      DATA
      https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/478833-poll-overwhelming-majority-say-news-media-making-us-more-politically-divided

      this has been happening at most rallies – building up all the time – and not reported by FakeNewsMSM:

      TWEET: Brad Parscale, Campaign Manager for @realdonaldtrump 2020 Presidential Campaign
      Big data from Toledo (Trump rally):
      ✅ 22,927 Voters Identified
      ✅ 18,210 Voters From Ohio
      ✅ 5,216 Registrants Didn’t Vote in 2016
      ✅ 21.9% Democrats
      ✅ 20.9% Independents

      Rallies = Winning Data!
      11 Jan 2020
      https://twitter.com/parscale/status/1216106938741772293

      70

      • #
        pat

        final comment on this theme:

        20 Jan: Infowars: Paul Joseph Watson: “Lying Pieces of Sh*t!” Man at Virginia Gun Rally Interrupts Live MSNBC Broadcast
        Attendees upset with media characterizing event as a white supremacist march
        ***Numerous media outlets have been fearmongering for the past week that the event could represents a ‘Charlottesville 2.0’ – characterizing the demonstration as a white nationalist gathering that could turn violent.

        It was also feared that left-wing agitators could stage violence to demonize Trump supporters.
        However, none of that has happened so far with the event having passed off peacefully.
        https://www.infowars.com/lying-pieces-of-shit-man-at-virginia-gun-rally-interrupts-live-msnbc-broadcast/

        20 Jan: The Babylon Bee (Satire website): Media Offers Thoughts And Prayers That Someone Would Start Some Violence At Gun Rights Rally
        Reporters expressed their grief and condolences as the violence they hyped has so far failed to materialize.

        “Nobody has so much as fired a shot. This is an unbelievable tragedy,” said one teary-eyed MSNBC reporter, clearly caught up in the anguish of the moment. “It’s tragic that we live in a country where reporters who are just minding their own business trying to push a narrative can have everything ripped away from them in an instant when protesters refuse to shoot at people.”

        A CBS News reporter called for a moment of silence live on the air. “Let’s all take a minute and cry out to a non-specific deity of our choice that any second now, a miraculous shooting would occur.” When it did not occur, she began weeping and gnashing her teeth before ripping her suit jacket in despair. “WHY, GOD, WHY!?!”

        One CNN reporter has offered up to $1,000 for anyone who will start some violence to help out the narrative…
        https://babylonbee.com/news/media-offers-thoughts-and-prayers-that-someone-would-start-some-violence-at-gun-rights-rally

        no different here. last nite, John Stanley/2GB had Russell Arnold (who campaigned for Hillary for 2-plus years) doing his usual anti-Trump spiel, including all of the above, incl Charleston lies, and more.
        given Arnold was so wrong about 2016, why is he still on 2GB?

        same goes for Andrew Romano, who still pops up on ABC every week, despite having been another Hillary hack.

        40

    • #
      Just Thinkin'

      Pat, Mr Trump is a marvel. Cutting through all the BS.

      Now, if only we had a grubbnmnt in Australia that thought the same way
      about our farmers; the life-blood of our nation.

      It is plain to see that our grubbnmnt is trying to “kill” the
      Australian farmers, of all sorts. And then us.

      10

  • #

    This extra thread is uncalled for. I’m not posting as a protest.

    163

  • #
    Kalm Keith

    Over the last seven or eight thousand years the oceans have fallen by from 4 to 6 metres.

    This would have effect of concentrating salt with no apparent ill effects on nature.

    Question: given the large percentage of the Earth’s free CO2 in the oceans and the likelihood that CO2 concentration would effectively be constant, how would this affect atmospheric CO2 levels?

    There should be an increase until equilibrium is achieved?

    Or did the cooling that created the sea level drop also increase solubility of our beloved gas of life?

    Something to ponder.

    KK

    50

    • #
      James Poulos

      The upside of sea level rise… more water to suck up CO2.

      70

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        Exactly, at a ratio of 50:1 the need for higher sea levels is obvious.
        Perhaps we could take all the black soot from the fires in giant rented DC10s and spread it over the poles ready for next polar summers. Melt the ice and absorb huge quantities of CO2.

        Imagine the headlines: Rising sea levels cause atmospheric CO2 to drop from 413 ppm to 407 ppm in just one year.

        This new process could make the IPCCCCC irreverent.

        KK

        30

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      Another more extreme comparison might be made of current atmospheric CO2 levels with those at the depth of the last ice age when oceans were 125 to 130 metres lower than now.

      What happened 25,000 years ago?

      KK

      30

    • #
      Graeme#4

      Hmmm, let’s not discount the fact that 2019 was the low part of the 18.6 year tidal cycle, with unusually low tide levels.

      30

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Keith you are assuming a big wrong thing
      That salt does not kift into the air when water evaporates.
      Actually molecules of salt are found in rain
      Here in the Adelaide Hills about 10 parts per million.
      So there is a constant leak in the salt in the oceanic bucket
      But also salt is washed down to the sea from land by rivers.

      30

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        And why does that make what I said wrong?

        It would be interesting to see salt concentration figures at the ocean minimum 25,000 years ago compared with now.
        One thing about the salt content so long ago is that the massive icefields would have limited degradation of rock and vegetation and transportation of silt to the oceans.

        It’s a big thing when you look into it.

        KK

        20

      • #
        Another Ian

        Bill

        Must go further than that.

        At the height of the Qld dryland salinity scam we were told that if we weren’t getting salt from the ocean we were getting it from Lake Eyre.

        20

    • #
      Chris

      There are no ill affects until you start removing deep rooted plants and start growing shallow rooted grasses ( grains). The salt rises to the surface and effectively overtime poisons the landscape and salts up the water supply.

      50

    • #
      Graeme Bird

      There is no static amount of water on the planet. Our planet loses hydrogen all the time. Gravity is not sufficient to hold back much hydrogen when its been transformed into a gas. This water needs to be replaced by new matter creation. Not only is our planet growing; Its hit a sweet spot where its growing proportionately faster than most other bodies.

      Remembering of course that the law that says that energy and matter is conserved is not only not a law, its not only wrong, it cannot possibly be right. Not only can it not be right; Conservation laws are a logical contradiction.

      36

      • #
        sophocles

        Every star which dies adds to the Universe’s dust.

        Our planet also loses oxygen all the time. Through the solar wind.

        It gains micro-meteoric slush balls all the time which keep the oceans growing.

        – Forget the aether, it’s a non-starter with no proof.
        – Energy destroyed? So why have we evolved Conservation of Energy Laws? (eg: the Laws of Thermodynamics)
        – And don’t forget the world’s most famous equation of Mass/Energy equivalence. E = mcc
        All our nuclear reactors use it … as does the Sun, the Solar System’s largest nuclear fusion reactor.

        More thought required…

        41

    • #
      Graeme Bird

      Just in case you are doubting me lets go a bit further. When you look at the universe you see an immense amount of space and a relatively small amount of matter. Since we have proven that matter is capable of creation it follows that the matter is being created on location. That means existing matter makes it easy to create new matter. Some contemplation will tell you that it had to be that way. Because if old matter didn’t assist in the creation of new matter then each new example of new matter creation would be a separate miracle.

      And further to this when various forms of proto-matter were evolving from aether, it also follows that the form of matter that had a reproductive element to it, would win out against other forms of matter that did not. From here we can extrapolate that matter and energy not only are created all the time. But they are being destroyed often also. The energy is destroyed all the time, and the matter more periodically and catastrophically.

      Now all this follows as a chain of reasoning thats very hard to beat on logical grounds. The philosophers in their 50′s and 60′s ought to have never had to give ground to these artificial physics heros, in their 20′s, from over a century ago.

      37

      • #
        sophocles

        Since we have proven that matter is capable of creation

        No, you have asserted without proof. Energy can be turned into matter in special conditions and matter can be transformed into other matter. The energy in matter can be extracted under special conditions, but there is a strict equivalence. (Look at the World’s Most Famous Equation again.)

        31

  • #

    Phew!

    Dodged a bullet there, eh!

    You know that new technology Concentrating Solar Power plant planned for Port Augusta that was touted as being able to provide 24/7 power, and got cancelled.

    Well lucky it was cancelled.

    Remember all the hype on how it was modelled after the Crescent Dunes Concentrating Solar (Solar Thermal) plant in Tonopah, near Las Vegas.

    Well, that Crescent Dunes plant has closed, abandoned, and is the subject of a number of lawsuits, and is going into receivership.

    It, umm, didn’t work, not even close to what was advertised.

    It was the molten salt type of plant, where the salt is heated by focussing mirrors onto the tall tower. The molten salt is used to boil water to steam, and the steam drives a (small) turbine which in turn drives the generator. The, umm, proposed advantage of this was the molten salts could be diverted and stored so that the plant could deliver power after the Sun sets.

    Great in theory, oh sorry modelled theory no less.

    It was claimed that it could deliver power at a Capacity Factor of 50% on a year round basis, and umm, that doesn’t quite go remotely close to 24/7 power.

    Here’s the two kickers here.

    It had a Nameplate of 110MW. (Umm, so, at 50% CF, then you’d only need 36 of these to equal the same power delivery across a year that Bayswater delivers)

    The cost was $USD1Billion. Yep ONE BILLION DOLLARS for a 110MW plant. They got a $750 Million loan from the Government. (So, I suppose that may be one source of the many lawsuits in place now)

    The best power delivery across the (ONLY) full year of operation during the plants four year existence was at a CF of 20%. In full operation during the height of Summer of that same year, for that one Month, it delivered its power at a CF of 42%.

    Now it’s ‘croaked’.

    Where was the due diligence? Where was the fact checkers before a billion was thrown at this thing? Where was the proposed 25 years life span, and it didn’t even make four years?

    Spain has many dozens of these type, and other types, of concentrating solar plants with varying amounts (percentages) of heat diversion, and the whole of fleet CF is a tick under 30%, so in fact not only are they NOT 24/7, but they are in a fact a little worse than wind power. The largest Unit which a plant of this nature can operate is 150MW, and they are struggling to try and get a 250MW unit in operation, but even that is derated to around 210MW.

    Where’s the proposers of this Port Augusta plant (pssst, his initials are JH) and their ABC sycophants reporting this eh? If this was their ‘goto’, heaven help us!

    Link to article

    Tony.

    240

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      Yes Tony. Phew.

      Green Swans all. Stranded assets.

      And to make your incredulity even greater you will have heard that the Bank for International Settlements (BIS) is of the view that the central banks may have to take over stranded energy assets to ensure financial stability of the world’s economies.

      It holds that climate change may well spark the next great global financial crisis.

      Now that’s what I call a bold forecast, or alternatively setting the scene for the greatest propaganda push of all time. And just before Davos.

      Perhaps the BIS doesn’t realise that Australia has already achieved many, many stranded assets in the energy space. The problem is that they’ve all been in the renewable space.

      And that performance is but a flea bite compared to the international experience of renewables that have gone belly-up. Here’s 200 for a start.

      https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Rest-in-Peace-The-List-of-Deceased-Solar-Companies

      Hot rocks and green swans.

      112

      • #
        Bill In Oz

        Green swans ?
        Indeed NO !Swans of all types are loving lovely creatures.
        These unreliable, unrenewable, high priced monstrosities
        Are dumb cluck dodos !
        And even that comparison is perhaps unkind to the dodos !

        60

        • #
          GrahamP

          “Swans of all types are loving lovely creatures”

          The swans that attacked us while we were having a picnic on the shores of Lake Wendouree when our children were small were neither and even pecked at the window when we retreated to the car.

          60

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        It holds that climate change may well spark the next great global financial crisis.

        The next great global financial crisis, Recession, is on its way.

        They know it’s coming:

        https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=oGg

        (Click “Max” on the timeframe).

        They know they’re responsible for the impending disaster.

        Climate change is the excuse of the day. Very fashionable.

        31

        • #
          dinn, rob

          They now want their hands in another thing they do not understand and cannot control even if they did.
          I didn’t write that, not being literate, literal, liberated +10,000 other defects. but you can smell robots in the wind. https://www.zerohedge.com/political/central-bankers-core-mission-now-includes-climate-change

          20

        • #
          sophocles

          The next great global financial crisis, Recession, is on its way.

          Haven’t you noticed? The current recession is almost over and will be by the end of the 1st quarter this year.
          Then we will be on the run up to the next credit collapse: October 2026 and into recession Jun 2027.
          At least that’s the timetable if the world doesn’t go stupid with carbon taxes everywhere.

          It’s cyclic.

          20

          • #
            el gordo

            ‘ … next credit collapse: October 2026 and into recession Jun 2027.’

            Is this astronomical or astrologically based?

            10

    • #
      pat

      TonyfromOz -

      good news, however:

      21 Jan: RenewEconomy: Australia to add 3.6GW of new solar and wind to grid in 2020
      by Sophie Vorrath
      Industry statistician Rystad Energy on Tuesday said it expected utility wind and solar projects totaling 3.6GW of capacity to complete commissioning this calendar year, up from 2.6GW in 2019.
      Of this amount, the majority – 1.96GW – would be made up of new PV projects, while 1.57GW would come from new wind farms, and the remaining 0.1GW from battery storage.

      The record numbers appear to clash with last week’s data from Bloomberg New Energy Finance, which confirmed a massive 60 per cent slump in investment in big solar and wind in Australia in 2019, attributed in no small part to ongoing policy uncertainty…

      “Projects with power purchase agreements (PPAs) and winners of government auction schemes and grants are scheduled to enter the construction phase, developers will be shifting to more favorable parts of the grid in Victoria, New South Wales and Queensland, and projects are lining up in central and northern New South Wales to replace the coal-fired Liddell power plant that is due to close by April 2023,” (Gero Farruggio, head of Australia at Rystad Energy) added.

      Four utility solar projects, each with a capacity of 200MW or more, are set to complete commissioning this year, according to Rystad. These include Darlington Point (275MW), Limondale (249MW), Kiamal Stage 1 (200MW) and Sunraysia (200 MW).

      Another eight new wind farms are also expected to complete commissioning, with a combined capacity of 1.57GW. These include PARF’s 453MW Coopers Gap, ***which will become the largest operational wind farm in Australia and only the second large-scale operating wind farm in Queensland…
      https://reneweconomy.com.au/australia-to-add-3-6gw-of-new-solar-and-wind-to-grid-in-2020/

      ***heard ABC Brisbane this afternoon excitedly reporting about a large wind farm scheduled for Qld. probably Coopers Gap.

      60

    • #
      Latus Dextro

      Tony, you may not have seen this, but here it is: Trump Administration Approves Huge Solar Project in California
      “Facing pressure from the California government to facilitate the production of more green energy, the Trump Administration approved the construction of a 3,000-acre solar project on Jan. 16. “

      The article does not specify the nature of the ‘pressure’ from the bankrupt, corrupt Leftist State, awash in impoverished tragic human detritus, faeces and spent needles.

      It will mean a private infrastructure investment of $1 billion. It will generate enough electricity to power about 117,000 homes and provide $2.7 million in annual rent and fees to the U.S. Treasury, according to a Bureau Land Management press release. It will also create 870 jobs at peak construction. The project, which has lingered for five years in the permitting stages, is expected to be operational in 2022. In November, the Bureau Land Management approved EDF Renewable Energy’s 500-megawatt, 3,140-acre Palen Solar Project in Riverside County. In December, the agency issued a final environmental impact statement, moving towards the approval of the proposed 690-megawatt Gemini Solar Project in Nevada. Combined with the project approved Jan. 16, these represent about 1,640 megawatts. That’s about 1–2 percent of the goal for the amount of solar power to be produced by 2045.

      60

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        Latus Dextro:

        “a private infrastructure investment of $1 billion. It will generate enough electricity to power about 117,000 homes and provide $2.7 million in annual rent and fees to the U.S. Treasury, ”

        Trump couldn’t care less if some people want to build “renewables” in California. They have to pay money into the U.S. Treasury or be declared bankrupt. In the highly likely situation that they don’t perform and generate the necessary funds, Trump can deflect blame onto the State of California. That leaves Californian politicians the choice between providing subsidies (which won’t be popular on top of the rest) or appearing gullible fools.

        70

        • #
          Greebo

          That leaves Californian politicians the choice between providing subsidies (which won’t be popular on top of the rest) or appearing gullible fools.

          Or, of course, both. Califonizuela should secede and take Nancy Pelosi with them.

          10

    • #

      The Las Vegas plant was a total success. It cost a motza and it didn’t work. That’s the whole point of white elephants and of globalism in general.

      Ideally they’d like us toasting bug rissoles over the embers of a burning cathedral. But baby steps…

      Rome wasn’t wrecked in a day.

      150

      • #
        WXcycles

        I’m guessing the scam was to build it with subsidies then sell it off to a bunch of suckers, who were then bled-dry, and couldn’t sell it again because its numbers looked so bad, it had technical teething issues.

        120

    • #

      So, right now, with solar power falling away back to zero, but still a little of it in the mix, overall we have all solar, including rooftop delivering around 8% of all generated power, and wind with 4%, coal fired power is ramping up as it always does at this time every day towards the evening peak around 6.30PM.

      Coal fired power is delivering 19700MW in all.

      Across the three States still with coal fired power, that coal fired sector is delivering 73% in Queensland, 79% in NSW, and 81% in Victoria.

      Tasmania has all hydro, and SouthAus wind and gas, so all up, coal fired power is delivering across the NEM 69% of all power, and when solar is virtually all gone at that evening peak at 6.30, then coal fired power will be around 72%.

      However, the key here is that total of 19700MW.

      Wind power 1200MW

      Nothing else, NOTHING, can deliver that, except coal fired power.

      Incidentally, Daylight Saving Time spreads that evening peak out, as in Queensland it is a little later in clock time, so if Qld went to DST, then that evening peak would be higher, placing more stress on the power generating system.

      Tony.

      130

      • #
        Another Ian

        Tony

        “SouthAus wind and gas”

        Descriptive!

        70

      • #

        Okay then, these are the actual figures for tonight.

        Of 48 coal fired Units in the Country, only two of them are off line, one each in NSW and Queensland.

        The evening peak was at 7PM.

        At 6.45PM, those 46 coal fired Units were delivering 20061MW of power. Counting all 48 Units, including the two offline, they were delivering their power at a Capacity Factor (CF) of 87.25%.

        In Victoria, those ten coal fired Units with a Nameplate of 4690MW were delivering 4718MW at a CF of 100.5%

        In Victoria, coal fired power made up 87.7% of all power being consumed at that time.
        In Queensland, coal fired power made up 80.2% of all power being consumed at that time.
        In NSW, coal fired power made up 85.7% of all power being consumed at that time.

        Across the NEM, coal fired power made up 75.2% of all power being consumed.

        Wind power was at 3.6% and all solar was at 0.8%.

        The remainder was hydro (9.2%) and gas fired power. (11%)

        Coal fired power – 20061MW

        What more can you say?

        There is no substitute, when huge amounts of power are required absolutely.

        You just CANNOT turn them off.

        And reliability. 46 of 48 Units with an average age of 38 years still running strongly. That’s the equivalent of the third model in the First Generation Commodore. How many 1982 Commodores are still on the road, and running almost as good as new?

        Tony.

        50

        • #
          graham dunton

          Hi Tony,
          I would like your permission, to use this article, in an to attempt to place it in our regional paper, the Cairns Post, section – letters
          In response to this

          Be part of the solution
          BILL Blackmore (CP, 16/01) claims that I would have no consistent power to my house without fossil fuel power stations.
          Like many other fossil statements in this section, this is untrue.
          In fact my house has enjoyed consistent power without any blackouts or brownouts for 30 years (and no power bills), because I chose stand-alone solar despite the mains going past our place.
          We can choose to be part of the solution and care about our children’s future, unlike those politicians who still accept “donations” from fossil fuel companies, while telling us we need coal and just have to suffer more extreme weather events. That’s like saying in 1920 that we need horse-drawn carriages and have to suffer their excrement in the streets.
          Please vote only for politicians who refuse “donations” from fossil fuel and commit to stop supporting and subsidising them.
          Svargo Freitag, Kuranda
          Or, please place it yourself, letters@tcp.newsltd.com.au

          50

          • #

            graham dunton,

            use the comment. You could preface it by mentioning that people think only of what is used in their home by comparison, when the wider non residential consumption is humungously larger than what is used in just the homes of people.

            That wider consumption is around eight to ten MILLION times higher than what he is consuming in his home at that time, the evening peak, when his home is consuming the most it uses during the day.

            Tony.

            40

        • #
          yarpos

          The only real reason we cant turn them off is because we refuse nuclear

          10

          • #
            AndyG55

            Absolutely no need to go nuclear power in Australia.

            We have some of the cleanest, most accessible coal in the world, plus a lot of available gas if we got rid of green tape and no-drill rules in some of the more backward states.

            That is what we should be using.

            30

          • #

            The talk of moving to nuclear power generation here in Australia is way way premature.

            First we need to have the debate as to whether we do or don’t, and I’m afraid that debate is a long way off.

            Then, assuming it gets widespread acceptance, we then need the political will to begin implementation.

            Then a long round of Federal elections before a party willing to implement it can get elected.

            Then the process of deciding which one, and where it will be.

            Then the EIA’s.

            Then the planning.

            Then the construction.

            ALL of the above will see around 20 to 25 years away before a nuclear power plant will be delivering any power at all.

            It won’t happen in my lifetime I think.

            And anyway, we are talking about replacing like for like right now, within three to five years (Liddell) and that ‘should’ be coal fired power, and even with that, if we actually started the process now, that coal fired plant would take five to seven years before it would be delivering power, and keep in mind here that even if it wasn’t coal fired, the same time scale would be in place for gas fired, hydro, wind or solar. ALL of these plants have a long lead time from thought bubble to power delivery.

            Tony.

            20

    • #
      Serp

      There are no successful solar projects; were there just one we would have been told about it time out of mind…

      111

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Its climate change..no…its a dipole…no….er…hang on….er…

    If its hot its climate change(tm), if its not, its weather……

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-21/canberra-hail-storm-unlikely-linked-to-bushfires-expert-says/11886116

    “Canberra’s hailstorm followed a horror bushfire season, but it’s unlikely they’re related

    “Yesterday Canberra was thrashed by a hailstorm that lasted little more than 10 minutes.

    “And after weeks of the city being blanketed by smoke and surrounded by fire, it felt to many like a flow-on effect from the summer of fires.

    “But the wild storm was more likely just a result of “bad luck”, according to one climate change expert, who also spent a career as a meteorologist.
    ……………..
    “This storm can’t be directly attributed to climate change

    “Former meteorologist and researcher Clem Davis said the force of yesterday’s storm was so great, the hailstones hurled down were the size of a $2 coin.

    “”That gives an indication of the amount of energy needed to keep the hail up in the sky,” he said.
    ………….

    “Dr Davis, who has researching the local effects of climate change in Canberra, said it is warmer than it was 100 years ago — and as the region warmed, dangerous weather became more likely.

    “”One thing we do understand is with increased warming in the atmosphere, you are more likely to get severe weather events,” he said.
    …………..
    “But in the case of this storm, Dr Davis said the driving force was largely the monsoonal weather up north, a natural consequence of the Indian El Niño.

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    • #
      AndyG55

      “the hailstones hurled down were the size of a $2 coin.”

      I’ve seen far bigger in several places in NSW, small mandarin size, golf-ball size

      $2 coin size is a tiddler. !

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      • #
        Graeme#4

        Thought the hailstones were bigger. The ones that rained down on a Perth suburb a few years ago were the size of tennis balls – have video of them, and the damage they caused to cars.

        70

        • #
          PeterS

          For the record the largest know hailstone was in Vivian, South Dakota summer of 2010. It measured 200 mm in diameter. I don’t believe they were blaming it on climate change back then.

          50

    • #

      Here in the ‘dong back in the eighties…grapefruits! A neighbour kept one in the freezer to show.

      In fresh news, that “smart” Kempsey rain gauge which missed around 120-130mm has found 43mm of rain today. Trouble is, it hasn’t rained.

      But that’s okay. At least we know it’s trying. And when everything is “smart” we won’t need reality and all that last millennium clutter.

      100

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      So the hailstones in Melbourne were just bad luck?

      We have been informed that CO2 “traps heat” therefore we get warming and more rain (more hurricanes).
      We have also been informed that CO2 “traps heat” therefore we get warming and less rain (droughts and fires).
      Surely they could claim that CO2 “traps heat” therefore we get cooling and more hail (as in Canberra etc.)

      Then all we need is a case where CO2 “traps heat” therefore we get cooling and droughts.

      50

    • #
      sophocles

      Yeah: idiot meteorology. Or mass idiocy.

      The more I investigate and dig, the less harm or activity I discover for CO2 (like nearly none now) and the more I discover as effects both direct and indirect for Solar activity. Solar activity even causes earthquakes.

      00

      • #
        sophocles

        And last weekend’s snow storm across Southern and South Eastern Spain (that’s the Mediterranean coast — it never snows there) 3 known deaths, closed roads and took down power lines. The Straits of Gibraltar are about the same lattitude as Auckland (36.8°) and Melbourne(37°). It seems you guys got the hail “in sympathy” with Majorca (Spanish Balearic Islands 39°)

        Heck, if that’s the Mediteranean weather, then who’s to say it can’t happen down here in the South Seas? Winter is yet to arrive here.
        https://electroverse.net/storm-gloria-brings-heavy-snow-to-spain-killing-at-least-3/

        The Electoverse reporter put it well: ‘Open your eyes, not a copy of The Guardian — prepare for the coming cold.’

        Well, yes, that’s ‘ just weather ‘and we all know ‘weather isn’t climate — not for 30 years.

        You know, we have no idea what’s likely to happen here in the Southern Hemisphere. During the Little Ice Age — the Maunder Minimum — and the later Dalton Minimum — we had no thermometers or weather forecasting functioning Down Under. We haven’t got a clue what’s going to hit us. I think I’m going to ensure I enjoy every day over 20° C.

        00

  • #
    beowulf

    Adam Bandt is back bagging coal power stations, specifically Liddell:

    “As homes and lives are lost in coal-fuelled mega-fires, the Fed Lib government spits in the face of victims, by actively canvassing for ways to keep Liddell coal-fired power station open for longer.”

    Engaging in his customary defective, rabid logic and name-calling.

    https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2020/01/looney-adam-bandts-coal-fuelled-mega-fires.html
    https://twitter.com/adambandt/status/1214443300796526593

    80

  • #
    John Watt

    Watched a couple of “fire experts” on Credlin’s show. Their comments quantified fire risk in terms of “tonnes per hectare” of tree waste. Also suggested that fire intensity increases as the square of the weight of tree waste with the result that after several years of waste accumulation not even the squadron of borrowed water bombers will stop the destruction.
    How to get our relevant politicians to look at fires in terms of this quantified approach and set some “tonnes per hectare” limits that protect people,property and wildlife as opposed to the blame game that we are seeing from our current crop of elected “talking heads”.

    70

    • #
    • #
      PeterS

      Not sure how you get the politicians to take note but the solution to the overload of fuel is already happening; bush-fires. In general let them burn and only worry about the fires near populated areas where evacuation is the last resort, as was the case recently. The area covered is far too much to handle even if we had hundreds of water bombers.

      62

      • #
        PeterW

        S…..

        You have been told multiple times that permitting fires to continue burning at the height of summer, is what led to the 2003 Canberra fire. Four preventable deaths and 500 homes destroyed.

        That is what the Macleod Inquiry found…..

        When will you understand that fires permitted to continue burning, tend to come out on bad days and on broad fronts.?

        41

        • #
          Bill In Oz

          Peter But there is no other way of dealing with them
          Once the fuel load has built up
          But letting the bush fire burn !
          That’s why cool burning is so important

          41

        • #
          Sceptical Sam

          fires permitted to continue burning, tend to come out on bad days and on broad fronts.

          Perhaps.

          However, the certainty is that governments that permit forests (including pine plantations) to exist right up to the urban area (see the ACT, 2003) are negligent.

          And, the green activists and their political sympathizers who support these nonsensical policies are severally and personally responsible for the death and destruction that follows.

          54

          • #
            hatband

            Rubbish.

            People have agency, though perhaps not in your universe.

            Don’t want to be fried in a bushfire?

            Don’t live in the middle of one.

            It’s not rocket science.

            43

            • #
              Kalm Keith

              Rubbish too.

              12

            • #
              robert rosicka

              Hatband what you say only has merit if you won’t or can’t clear a firebreak around the property .
              Remove the fuel to a safe distance and any property is defendable .

              33

              • #
                hatband

                If you’re not a farmer, what are you doing in the middles of a forest that is guaranteed to go up in flames every ten years or so?

                32

            • #
              Sceptical Sam

              So there we have it.

              Hatband seems to hold the view that government regulation and interference has no role to play?

              It’s all down to you.

              Well, if that’s the case, he has a very frustrating life in front of him. No wonder he’s so irrational.

              12

          • #
            Kalm Keith

            Exactly

            22

        • #
          yarpos

          A far bit of firefighting is actually letting areas burn and waiting for the fire to reach more workable terrain, or terrain you have worked to improve the chance of stopping it. Thinking you can extinguish fires regadless of location is wishful thinking.

          31

        • #
          PeterS

          Dream all you like but there is no way we can stop the fires. They are too big. Besides how else are we to reduce the fuel over millions of hectares?

          20

          • #
            robert rosicka

            Talking to a firefighter this morning who has been up at the Alpine National park fires , was interesting to hear the intricacies of the various firefighting aircraft and turnaround times for the big jets .
            The two biggest planes were being loaded at Avalon two smaller at Albury while the choppers were just filling from a nearby lake and constantly dropping loads .
            They knew when the big planes were near because the choppers disappeared all of a sudden .

            50

        • #
          el gordo

          I’m supporting PeterW in this debate, early water bombing would have stopped the Gospers fire immediately. A lightning strike started it.

          https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/the-monster-a-short-history-of-australia-s-biggest-forest-fire-20191218-p53l4y.html

          Preempting the RC findings, it will be shown that our water bombers must be on a war footing during bushfire seasons when the country is also in drought.

          11

  • #
    pat

    Chris Kenny on Sky with Joel Fitzgibbon, who is saying bushfires bigger, badder than ever. climate warmer. big banner headline across the screen:

    LABOR REVIVES CLIMATE CHANGE AGENDA

    Kenny follows with Michael Johnsen, Upper Hunter Nationals MP, who wants Matt Kean out of the environment portfolio.

    21 Jan: Australian: Letters: Climate change faithful are disregarding factual data
    Chris Kenny blasts a hole through the portrayal of these bushfires as “unprecedented” (“Out of the bushfires and into the land management plans”, 18/1). The same advocates of climate change alarmism who are loudest in pushing scientific data to support their CO2 emission claims as the cause are deliberately ignoring the data of worse fire disasters down through history.

    Ideological opportunism has its own morality when it suits to push a climate cause that has rapidly developed a mindset usually characteristic of fundamentalist sections of established traditional faiths.

    Having long accused traditional faiths of ignoring secular science, these new climate change faithful are now disregarding historical factual data in favour of a blind climate fundamentalism that mimics the very behaviour that they condemn.
    John Bell, Heidelberg Heights, Vic
    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/letters/climate-change-faithful-are-disregarding-factual-data/news-story/eea0353499ac35a2f3f12dc48a57eaab

    behind paywall:

    Out of the bushfires and into land management plans
    The Australian – 18 Jan 2020 by Chris Kenny
    Anyone involved in land or fire management could have told you this…

    40

  • #
    el gordo

    Fitz we could log some areas (non heritage or corridors) and reforest with China gum as a renewable resource.

    https://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/art-and-design/tree-change-the-evolving-story-of-eucalypts-in-china-20190815-p52hmq.html

    20

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Eucalyptus tree burn
      No matter which country they are grown in
      But I suspect that in China cheap labourers
      Prune the trees to straight large bean poles.
      It helps prevent crowning fires

      30

      • #
        el gordo

        At least there are no arsonists and the straight eucalypts can be used in building construction, unlike our prehistoric gums.

        10

        • #
          hatband

          Include me in favor of draconian punishments for Arsonists, but i’m afraid involuntary Organ Donation is a Bridge Too Far. in Australia.

          In China?

          No worries.

          31

          • #
            el gordo

            When you have so many people, life is cheap.

            Arson Watch should be upgraded with widespread use of surveillance drones and before every bushfire season they should run tv ads directed at arsonists.

            10

  • #
    Graeme#4

    Trump’s going to Davos! Suddenly I’m interested in the place.

    50

    • #
      PeterS

      Davos Switzerland? It’s almost impossible to migrate to Switzerland unless you have a relative from there.

      30

      • #
        yarpos

        Its very easy to migrate to Switzerland as long as you have lotso $

        Phil Collins, Michael Schumacher, Shania Twain, Celine Dion

        over the years Roger Moore, Charlie Chaplin, Peter Ustinov, David Niven, Audrey Hepburn and so on

        51

    • #
      hatband

      Trump’s been threatening Iraq.
      https://www.unz.com/wwebb/how-a-hidden-parliamentary-session-revealed-trumps-true-motives-in-iraq/#comment-3671542

      Get a load of This from that link:

      …similar tactics against Ecuador, where, in July 2018, a U.S. delegation at the United Nations threatened the nation with punitive trade measures and the withdrawal of military aid if Ecuador moved forward with the introduction of a UN resolution to “protect, promote and support breastfeeding.”

      The New York Times reported at the time that the U.S. delegation was seeking to promote the interests of infant formula manufacturers. If the U.S. delegation is willing to use such pressure on nations for promoting breastfeeding over infant formula, it goes without saying that such behind-closed-doors pressure would be significantly more intense if a much more lucrative resource, e.g. oil, were involved.

      Bottom Line: Trump is a tool of Oligarchy, Australia can’t afford Four More Years.

      212

      • #
        AndyG55

        Worship Bernie, do you ;-)

        Trump is nobody’s tool.

        I suspect you are though.

        125

        • #
          Sceptical Sam

          Bernie’s tool.

          No doubt.

          And like Bernie he’s just another green left anarchist fool, who likes to hear the sound of his own voice.

          (Or, in hatbanned’s case, his typing).

          74

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        The Lefties squeal loudly because your UN bag boy, Obummer, got booted, now you have to be put back in your place.

        Good. All for it….

        Anything like Trump who stops the horrors of socialism in its tracks, is fine by me…..

        My uncle escaped communism is Hungary and told me some stories.

        Communism is an evil political belief, it crushes everything and makes itself your god, whether you like it or not.

        Whining students who embrace marxism etc, are trendies who will likely grow out of it ( sensibly ) and gives them a tribe to hang out with.

        But the ones over 40 who go for socialism cant be trusted, as they should know better, but choose not to…….

        That’s a red flag right there.

        So to those who love communism , tell us which communist country you’re emigrating too, and we’ll come see you off.

        If you truly believe in Communism you’ll need to emigrate to your “nirvana”, coz it aint happening here….

        93

        • #
          hatband

          What are you talking about?

          The choice isn’t Oligarchy or Communism.

          It’s Oligarchy or Nationalism.

          Trump has been cutting Taxes on the Oligarchs at the same time as he’s busy filling

          America with Low Skill and Welfare dependent Third Worlders.

          And he boasts about it.

          The bloke’s a Showman/Grifter.

          IOW, Don Rickles meets Liberace.

          216

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            And yet the Dems have openly have stated they want to flood the USA with Dem voting illegals to keep them in power forever…..

            Give me a break….

            https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jul/7/democrats-open-border-strategy-is-to-flood-america/

            ANALYSIS/OPINION:

            “So, here’s the Democrats’ plan: Flood America’s southern border with millions of illegal aliens, hook them on government aid and eventually turn them into voters. It can’t be more obvious anymore.

            “Use the courts to strike down any attempts to secure the border. Have judges rule against election integrity laws like voter ID or even the commonsense question about citizenship in the 2020 national census. Once the census count is in, grant more congressional districts and federal funds to jurisdictions swelled with illegals. Meanwhile, prevent Congress from approving money for border security or even to accommodate the massive crowds. Promise free, unlimited health care for everyone, including illegal aliens. On June 27 during the Democratic debate, all the candidates raised their hands to support this insane proposal that is sure to be heard loud and clear south of the border.

            “Having created the crisis by opposing all efforts to address it, Democrats like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez are making trips to the border for photo ops, lamenting the poor conditions caused by the crush of humanity and blaming the Trump administration for creating “concentration camps.”

            83

            • #
              hatband

              The Dems aren’t the Government, Trump is.

              And he’s bringing in unheard of numbers from the Third World.

              And he’s boasting about it.

              110

            • #
              Dennis

              Must have spoken about tactics to Senator Hanson Young of the Australian Greens, before entering Parliament she was a refugee activist and visited onshore detention centres to advise detainees on what they must do to gain sympathy, and publicity to shame the government with.

              I understand that this was one of the reasons offshore processing was introduced, Pacific Solution deterrents.

              20

            • #
              Kalm Keith

              We’ve had the very same system of importing “voters” here in Australia.

              Easy, just add taxpayer money and stir.

              KK

              11

          • #
            WXcycles

            It’s Oligarchy or Nationalism.

            Personally I see nothing wrong at all with people being wealthy, capitalist, entrepreneurial and pro their own country and community. I’m not the slightest bit interested in sly greenie socialists pushing communist collectivist ideas, and subverting everything and everyone with insinuated conniving BS and lies.

            ” … as he’s busy filling America with Low Skill and Welfare dependent Third Worlders.”

            That would fall under the latter category.

            53

            • #
              hatband

              You find nothing wrong with Super Rich people?

              Good for you. Tell me this, though:

              In a Country where minimum Wage is $18.50/hr., and that’s what most people are

              getting, if they’re lucky enough to hold a job, how is it possible to become a

              Billionaire honestly, given that to earn a Billion$$ over a 50 year working

              life, before tax, you’d have to be earning $400 Grand a week?

              29

              • #
                Dave

                Wrong!
                $19.49

                51

              • #
                Richard Ilfeld

                Because the fundamental mechanism for earning 18.50 an hour and earning billions is different.
                18.50 requires a strong back.
                Billions requires either extraordinary good fortune, or extraordinary metal accomplishment (usually also followed by
                years of hard work, risk taking, repeated disappointment, and final success.)
                Or there is a third way; one might become a member of our only native criminal class in America, and be a politician.

                I suppose the standard liberal model of a billionaire is the farmer who is digging for turnips and strikes oil, or whose father’s chicken
                farm turned out to be in the middle of what became a shopping mall.

                The other model, of course, brand the liberal as a fool; as it is the corporate magnate who fouls the water, pollutes the air, rips off her customers,
                thus makes billions. It is, of course, this business model the liberal ingrain into the heads of their young that prevent so many of them from being successful.

                I’ve never known a successful businessperson who started out with a sense of their own entitlement; rather it was what their prospective customers were entitled to that they were driven to proved that moved the needle.

                It’s never struck me as useful to start a job interview by saying “corporations are evil, and profits are bad”.

                I’d like to think that, sooner or later reality bites; here’s a fantasy: a political party that has spent generations fighting “discrimination” and using “disparate impact” as a bludgeon to ruin thousands of lives for the rest of us can’t discard their current slate of old white blowhards and impose one
                that represents their stated ideals, even as they wish to impose upon the rest of us unwanted and unwarranted rules for how we should live.

                32

              • #
                Fred Streeter

                “How is it possible to become a Billionaire honestly?”

                Honestly or Legally?
                There’s the rub!

                30

              • #
                yarpos

                There are plenty of bilionaires in a country with a $7 minimum wage, there are billionaires in countries with no minumum wage and people die in the street. Not sure why you think the two are linked.

                World isnt fair Comrade, some have more than others, as it always has been. If you want to start redistributing wealth try starting at the Vatican.

                41

              • #
                WXcycles

                It’s really simple Hatband, my first job started the day I turned 15, I worked for several years before going to Uni. I even worked as a pro-musician for a few years before Uni, and with just a Grade 9 pass as the foundation for a BSc. Later I realized I should have been studying business, but nevertheless scienc was my primary interest. When I left Uni I started a business from scratch and worked it up into a going concern that made more money every quarter from there.

                That’s how you do it, you stop whinging and feeling-sorry about your low status and capacity, and being jealous, demoralized and bitter about being ‘stuck’ doing minimum-wage jobs, and you create your own work and role and set your own pay and conditions, and then grow them. Some are much better at it then others and figure it out sooner. Some never do.

                Fools see no way off the bottom-rung of the wage ladder, and thus do nothing about it but feel sorry for their ‘plight’, which is really naked opportunity staring them in the face. All you need to do is change your perceptions around and stop being negative and begin working at it. If that’s what occurred to you I have no sympathy. For those who tried, I cheer!

                This country’s wealth was built on the positive social philosophy of, “Have a go, mate!“.

                That’s where the billionaires and millionaires came from.

                31

              • #
                Another Ian

                How to get rich in USA

                Most of the iceberg lettuce used in USA comes from Imperial Valley in California.

                There is another irrigation area on the Rio Grande in New Mexico that can also grow lettuce but it harvests later so misses out.

                One farmer there planted lettuce for a number of years and plowed it in.

                Then one year Imperial Valley got hit by a late frost and for a couple of weeks he had the only available lettuce in USA.

                Apparently allowed that he mightn’t plant lettuce again for a while.

                “I took the risks they dared not take

                And now they call it luck”

                Rudyard Kipling

                10

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                As another Ian says,

                If, you can force your heart and nerve and sinew ,,,,,,

                Live life inspired to achieve.

                Or you can face the drudgery of being a Global Warming, reverse gender, anti discrimination victim in untold pain.

                KK

                00

            • #
              WXcycles

              Richard Ilfeld … It is, of course, this business model the liberal ingrain into the heads of their young that prevent so many of them from being successful. I’ve never known a successful businessperson who started out with a sense of their own entitlement; rather it was what their prospective customers were entitled to that they were driven to proved that moved the needle. …

              That is so true Richard, when I decided to start a small business I had this lazy, boozing unemployed ‘mate’ who immediately offered his sage advice, “No, don’t even bother doing that, 50% of small businesses fail within the first 18 months, you’ll just be back where you started in 18 months and need to go find a job anyway, so don’t waste your time.”, etc. I looked at his negative ‘statistic’ (which came from the ABC) and I figured those were actually really good odds because if extrapolated out it also implied that if I kept at even through an initial failure this would be the result over time:

              18 months = 50% chance of success
              36 months = 75% chance of success
              54 months = 87.5% chance of success
              72 months = 92.5% chance of success … etc.

              The odds were strongly in my favor, the longer I stuck at it and learned. All I had to do was ignore negative people and do it and I would eventually succeed. It of course worked and in three years I had a thriving business.

              If the negative, defeatist ‘wise’ voices are from your own ‘woke and enlightened’ parents you’re probably going to be setup to expect failure and to not try hard or for too long. The odds of success are so much better than children are told at school, by teachers who have never really done anything. And the academics at university also had no clue at all. There’s way too much negative focus by the left of on risk, which leads do nothing and to weak-headed nanny-state type mindsets. The risk IS much more manageable on a day to day basis than it first appears, you’re much more likely to succeed than to fail, as long as you have no debt. Never take out ‘business loan’ they’re the path to ruin and loss as soon as there’s an economic pothole. I did a lot of difficult work, it wasn’t “hard work” though, mostly because I enjoyed it so much and my clients were good people.

              The biggest learning advantage came from getting to know and work with people who were older and more experienced at running a larger business. I discovered that some of them had hundred million dollar businesses, had an only-child, a sole heir, a female, usually in her mid-20s, being groomed to take over the family business with a husband, as the parents get ready to retire. Such mothers furiously network with their closest business friends to detect and identify just the right sort of young man for their lovely young woman. So as soon as you pop up on the business radar, you don’t know it yet, but such mothers detect you immediately and they start getting people to engage your services and get to know you. If you do well you get setup to meet the young lady of your dreams.

              This is how the rich mum network operates. They want the right husband for their daughter, plus a partner who actually knows how to run a business very efficiently and smartly, to take over and run the parents business with her while they retire. Then you make grand children with their girl while they enjoy themselves. Then they eventually fall off the twig, and the young couple are the beneficiaries. So even running a really small business for just a few years, and gradually making connections with clients, and generally being a good and capable person can lead to totally unforeseen success. Success is looking for you, it finds you, and it hunts you down. You’re the person who’s in high demand then, from people with real money, and a very rich good-looking daughter.

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              • #
                Another Ian

                Isn’t that the set that is pretty heavily into global warming?

                00

              • #
                WXcycles

                That’s the perception, though I don’t believe they’re any different to the average person, just as easily affected by climate-crisith™ scare-campaign narratives. I’m sure the vast majority of them do not care about it, in my experience they’re very conservative minded people (which makes plenty of sense).

                It seems to be the aging middle-class who become the political advocates with an agenda and use and abuse weather-as-’climate’ to assist with their political opportunism.

                The difference being it only takes a tiny number of very rich activist ratbags types to create a lot of social, media and political havoc. Frankly if such were not using climate-change™ to achieve their ends, they would be using the next best popular delusional theme. I don’t think those types care if climate-change™ matters, it’s just another tool for their scamming and ego-tripping.

                20

          • #
            Kalm Keith

            Also rubbish.

            22

          • #
            el gordo

            ‘Oligarchy exists in different forms such as aristocracy, plutocracy, kratocracy, stratocracy, timocracy, meritocracy, technocrachy, geniocracy, noocracy, theocracy, kritarchy and patricracy.’

            They say China has oligarchic tendencies.

            00

      • #
        yarpos

        NYT reported? what next CNN links?

        30

    • #
      TedM

      Yey!!! No doubt POTUS will infuriate most of the attendees by telling the truth.

      00

  • #
    It's all BS

    Coal-fuelled? Wasn’t it a bush fire? Why are we talking about the bush burning if coal was the fuel?

    60

  • #
    pat

    21 Jan: Bloomberg: Let’s Go Back to Calling It Global Warming
    “Climate change” is vague and doesn’t convey enough urgency.
    By Faye Flam
    As scientific terms go, “climate change” is lame. It sounds like something created by committee. And it’s hard to understand as a crisis when we also hear scientists talking about ice ages and other natural changes to the climate happening throughout earth’s history. “Global warming” is something people have worried about for years, though. It’s essentially another term for the same thing, but conveys a planet-wide danger.

    There’s good evidence that global warming is exacerbating the wildfires raging in southern Australia, but when we call it “climate change,” non-scientists may well wonder what the connection is and how it could have been averted. Call it “global warming,” though, and it’s intuitively easy to understand that if the world is getting warmer on average, then of course some hot places will get even hotter, and eventually some really hot places, such as southern Australia, will go up in flames.
    Yet nobody seems to be talking about global warming these days…

    In 2014, researchers from Yale and George Mason Universities surveyed 1,657 Americans on the two terms, and found that many people were concerned about global warming, while far fewer were concerned about climate change…
    Is global warming still a scientifically correct term? Scientists recognized a century ago that at 93 million miles from the sun, our planet would be frozen to the equator if not for certain heat-trapping components of our atmosphere — especially carbon dioxide…READ ON
    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-01-20/-global-warming-was-a-better-term-than-climate-change

    40

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Ok, here’s a story…….

    My mother who has a Masters in History, but understands the science ( but Flamflam cant…go figure…) wrote a sceptic-toned letter to the local newspaper.

    Someone who was a known “climate cult” member, who she also knew through other means, rang her up to “help her see the science” because she “didn’t believe“.

    Apparently this guy is a bit of a wet rag, but still…..my hackles went up…..

    She backed him off, and I did offer to deal with him directly if they tried it again…..and probably a word of warning for idiots who think sceptics are soft targets, its a stupid mistake to think so.

    Now here’s the thing – my mother is in her 80s living by herself, but what disturbed me the most was that she “didn’t believe”.

    Presumably once the climate kool aid kicks in, these people become climate zombies. Certainly their brains switch off.

    Clearly these dimwits who don’t have the ability to know basic science, could be spurred on with irresponsible govt grants for plays that advocate “killing” deniers etc, but I’m seeing echos of conditions that allowed the infamous krystal nacht to eventually occur.

    Good but impressionable people can be manipulated into doing bad things, all you have to do is look at 1930s european countries for the blissful ignorance of the many.

    No climate “brown shirts” yet, but give it time….there appear to be emboldened fools who ( wrongly ) think they are a protected species.

    She is also looking at buying a diesel gennie soon, as she realizes Dangerous Dan has made such a mess of electricity, she no longer has any faith in stability of the power grid.

    I’m all for freedom of speech, and the climate “faithful” can believe what they want, but dont pressure sceptics to also become idiots, you wont like the reaction….

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    Deplorable Lord Kek

    Dave Sharma in Turnbull’s old seat shilling for ‘more action’ on ‘climate change’.

    I completely agree as long as it goes in his electorate.

    a nice big windmill farm right in front of turnbull’s point piper mansion would do nicely.

    100

  • #
    hatband

    Have a geek at this from the other thread:

    A Journal published a study of consumption of Beef, Pork, and Processed Meats, and could find no evidence that consumption should be limited at all, unleashing a Firestorm from the Diet Dictocrats.

    Imagine their findings if they left out the chemical laden Processed Meat, and only investigated Beef and Poek Consumption, or just Beef consumption?

    Anyway, it appears that the Plant Based Diet Nazis have plenty in common with the Climate Nazis and the Environmental Nazis.

    Now read on:

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/01/20/the-meat-wars-jama-stirs-the-pot/

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    • #
      AndyG55

      “it appears that the Plant Based Diet Nazis have plenty in common with the Climate Nazis and the Environmental Nazis.”

      Yep, all from the same bullying totalitarian socialist/marxist human sludge.!!

      They can do what they want to themselves…

      …. but should leave everyone else alone to live their lives as they see fit.

      40

    • #
      Another Ian

      Read closely and comprenend

      00

  • #
    Peter C

    Forgotten Awards.

    Apparently there was an award called “The Howard Florey Young Investigators Award”.

    My internet search does not give any information on the award. Nor can I find a list of recipients.

    Maybe someone has heard of it?

    00

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Smells like back door nationalization to me…..

    The world bank ….. more UN bozos …..

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/rba-told-to-mobilise-all-forces-to-save-the-economy-from-climate-change-20200120-p53szi.html

    “The Reserve Bank has been warned it may have to buy up coal mines and fossil-fuel power stations as part of extraordinary actions to save the economy from climate change-induced financial disaster.

    “As Australian business leaders grow increasingly worried climate change will hit their bottom lines and the International Monetary Fund warns global warming is now a major financial risk, a new warning issued by the world’s top central bank says the RBA could be forced into rescuing the economy and the environment.

    “Three separate reports released on the same day, coinciding with Australia’s worst bushfire season and ongoing political division over environmental policy, point to increasing fears among economic policy leaders that climate change could cause the next global financial breakdown.

    “The Bank for International Settlements, which acts as the central bank to the world’s central banks, overnight told its members they had to start incorporating climate change into their thinking about the stability of the economy.

    10

  • #
    David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

    Sounds like Scott Morrison is listening to someone. And the SMH has reported his views!!

    An extract:
    ” In an interview with Sky News, Mr Morrison said hazard reduction was as “important as emissions reduction and I think many would argue even more so because it has an even more direct, practical impact on the safety of a person going into a bushfire season”.

    He said a royal commission into the fires should take no more than six months and begin with a speedy audit of measures recommended by the dozens of previous inquiries into Australian bushfires. ”
    And the link:
    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/prime-minister-says-hazard-reduction-burns-are-climate-action-20200121-p53tha.html?btis

    Cheers
    Dave B

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    • #
      robert rosicka

      He has consistently said that while on the fire grounds the most common thing people are saying is not enough fuel reduction and high fuel loads .
      Would be good if Kelly was coaching him though .

      40

      • #
        GD

        Would be good if Kelly was coaching him though

        Instead, at times it seems like the alarmist Libs are telling Morrison to ignore Craig Kelly.

        31

      • #
        Dennis

        I drive a lot and over the past twenty years I have toured around most of Australia including the State of Tasmania.

        We often comment on the tangled undergrowth we observe fallen trees an branches with vegetation surrounding in between the trees, and in many places imported weed vines covering the treetops. Virtually inaccessible for walkers even on Horses.

        Tom Foolery’s Climate Council highlighted this when they commenced their climate emergency campaign early in 2019 with five former fire commissioners Climate Council members receiving publicity calling for a meeting with the PM to warn him and the Federal Government about the 2019-2020 Bushfire Season danger, global warming of course.

        The fact is that the present NSW State Emergency Services were well aware of the excess fuel problems and had advised the NSW Government, I understand that the NSW Government has been fully aware of the bushfire potential as far back as 2018-2019 Bushfire Season and extra funding for the Rural Fire Service was provided (the Climate Council and Unions claim cuts in funding but they used creative accounting to achieve their false figures) including funding grants from the Federal Government.

        What the people are saying is of course correct and in VIC as well, lack of land management. And now damage control is underway with excuses, excuses and excuses. One of the blatant lies is that burning off exercises were restricted because of global warming limiting the number of days that it was safe to do so. How about there is so much fuel that they were frightened that burning would become uncontrollable?

        And the Climate Council tried to take full advantage of the situation for climate emergency publicity purposes.

        30

        • #
          Kalm Keith

          That’s disgusting.

          00

          • #
            farmerbraun

            It might be worse than that.
            Saving up an extraordinary fuel loading for an all out AGW propaganda effort in 2020.
            That would be murder.
            Certainly the imagery shown around the world alarmed otherwise sensible people.
            Here in NZ we are used to smoke from Aussie bush fires.

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    • #
      Andrew McRae

      There is a rumour that frequent Australian YouTubers named Avi Yemeni and friendlyjordies will be debating the connection between man-made global warming, fuel reduction, the Greens, and the recent bushfires. https://www.youtube.com/post/Ugz7Wotrodlyk_PndpN4AaABCQ

      No idea when, where, or how, or if it will actually happen.
      But assuming friendlyjordies goes ahead it will be interesting to see what approach Avi takes.

      00

  • #
    AndyG55

    Been looking at the Arctic Sea Ice Extent from NSIDC

    For day 19…2020 is above….

    2005
    2006
    2011
    2012
    2014
    2016
    2017
    2018
    2019

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  • #
    pat

    no wonder they don’t mock virtue-signalling!

    20 Jan: CampaignLiveUK: UK media rivals come together to measure industry’s climate impact
    BBC, Sky and ITV collaborate on project to create calculator that could be used by any company offering digital products and services.
    by Omar Oakes
    The BBC, ITV, Sky and Dentsu Aegis Network are among nine launch partners for Dimpact, a new scheme that will try to map the carbon impact of digital value chains…
    The 12-month project will see University of Bristol researchers work with sustainability and technology teams at the BBC, Dentsu Aegis Network, Informa, ITV, ***Pearson, Relx, Schibsted, Sky and TalkTalk…
    https://www.campaignlive.co.uk/article/uk-media-rivals-together-measure-industrys-climate-impact/1671324

    ***Pearson:

    8 Dec 2019: Investment Watch: Obama gave ***Pearson Publishing $350 million to create Commoncore text and Pearson gave Obama a $65 million dollar book deal in return
    Quid Pro Quo.
    Media silent…

    The Obamas’ $60m book deal has broken all records. From James Patterson to JK Rowling and Pope John Paul II, here are some of their closest rivals…

    Pearson Publishing was paid for Commoncore but Penguin Random House Publishing did the Obama book deal. But there is commonality with the two…

    From Wiki:
    Penguin Random House was formed on July 1, 2013, upon the completion of a £2.4 billion transaction between Bertelsmann and Pearson to merge their respective trade publishing companies, Random House and Penguin Group. Bertelsmann and Pearson, the parent companies, owning 53% and 47%, respectively.

    Same as Obama’s stance on net net-neutrality benefited Netflix, now Netflix hires Obamas to produce their “Higher Ground” shows to the tune of millions.
    https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/obama-gave-pearson-publishing-350-million-to-create-commoncore-text-and-pearson-gave-obama-a-65-million-dollar-book-deal-in-return/?fbclid=IwAR0y-Mwb6g3j5k2-3Fkzuw93CO4g_NahfRZc2Wg2d13eJGdWUHVD4G93bMA

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    • #
      yarpos

      “20 Jan: CampaignLiveUK: UK media rivals come together to measure industry’s climate impact”

      They could start a campaign for everyone to turn off their devices and not listen to them, that would reduce their impact.

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    pat

    21 Jan: SBS: What these Australian politicians learned from visiting a slum in Bangladesh
    A group of Australian MPs are on a learning tour of Bangladesh this week. Here, two of them share their experiences with SBS News
    SBS chief political correspondent Brett Mason reports from Dhaka, Bangladesh
    Representatives from both the Liberal and Labor parties are in Bangladesh to learn about Australia’s aid program there, which is budgeted at $105 million dollars in 2020.
    On Sunday, Labor’s Home Affairs spokesperson Kristina Keneally and Liberal MP Angie Bell visited an early learning centre and a women’s microfinancing initiative in one of Dhaka’s extremely poor enclaves…

    Senator Keneally said Australia needed to “ask ourselves as a country, what more can we do to transform the lives of some of the most poor people in the world”…
    The senator said helping women was particularly important.
    “They say that women hold up half the sky, they say if you change a woman’s future, you change her family’s future and that’s what we’re seeing here today.”…

    LINK Despite climate impact, Bangladesh wants Australian coal to fire 29 new power stations.

    Australia commits $1.4 billion to the Pacific, $1 billion to Southeast and East Asia, $266.2 million to South and West Asia (which includes Bangladesh) and $199.8 million to the Middle East and Africa.
    The rest of the money goes to other humanitarian assistance programs, a gender equality fund and climate change.

    (Brett Mason travelled to Bangladesh as part of the Australian Regional Leadership Initiative, funded by the Gates Foundation)
    https://www.sbs.com.au/news/what-these-australian-politicians-learned-from-visiting-a-slum-in-bangladesh

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    • #
      robert rosicka

      Why we donate money to countries that have nukes and a space agency is beyond me .

      20

      • #
        yarpos

        I am similarly puzzled about why we donate 100s of millions of dollars a year to Indonesia while they run a 6-8 Billion dollar a year defense budget. Is it the please dont invade us tax? or the please let us buy your more ammo levy? or the gold taps for the Pres Palace bribe?

        20

        • #
          hatband

          No, it’s our Support Asian Dictatorships Policy.

          I’d like to know how much we’re paid for the Live Cattle Trade.

          Just a suspicion:
          Some of the money we hand over comes back, and Indonesia gets our Cattle for nothing,

          while Australian families can’t ever afford to raise their kids on Beef.

          21

        • #
          el gordo

          ‘Is it the please don’t invade us tax?’

          There is no indication that anything untoward is happening, in a strategic sense, except that China is wooing. The aid money is no doubt going to good causes, and yes their defence budget is obscene, but no different to ours.

          In the new world order Australia and Indonesia will be spending less money on fighter jets and submarines and more on support to help people caught in harms way. Such as the ships which evacuated the bushfire refugees in Victoria and of course Guvmint sending in the Reserves.

          01

    • #
      hatband

      The Gates Foundation was kicked out of India for unethical behaviour.

      Why is SBS accepting Gates hospitality?

      21

  • #
    pat

    Britain to scrap foreign aid for coal mining abroad
    Financial Times – 20h ago
    The British government will suspend financial support for thermal coal as part of efforts to present itself as a global leader in green technology…

    more virtue-signalling…and the CAGW mob don’t like it (see COP26 stuff):

    20 Jan: BusinessGreen: Boris Johnson announces ban on foreign aid for coal mines and power stations
    by Madeleine Cuff
    Speaking at a UK-Africa Summit in London earlier today, Johnson said there is “no point” in the UK reducing the amount of coal it burns if it encourages developing nations to use more of it.
    “We will breathe the same air, we live beneath the same sky, we all suffer when carbon emissions rise and the planet warms,” he said.

    He promised the British government will “no longer provide any new direct official development assistance, investment, export, credit, or trade promotion for thermal coal mining or coal power plants overseas”.
    “To put it simply, not another penny of UK taxpayers money will be directly invested in digging up coal or burning it for electricity,” Johnson added. “And instead we are going to focus on supporting the transition to lower and zero carbon alternatives.”…

    As such campaigners say the move is significant, and hope it will encourage other OECD nations to follow suit. Japan and South Korea, for example, remain the largest OECD public financiers of coal, both domestically and overseas, despite their support for the Paris Agreement…
    Campaigners also hope the move will act as a stepping stone towards a wider UK ban on all fossil fuel financing…

    Meanwhile, the UK government came under fire today for its continued use of coal in its domestic energy system. Burning coal for electricity generation has dramatically decreased over the last decade, but the fuel is still used in heavy industries such as steel.
    New government figures revealed yesterday – and reported by The Sunday Times – indicate the UK imported 600,000 tonnes of Australian coal last year, mainly for use in heavy industry.

    The Australian government has faced protests in recent weeks for backing the country’s coal export industry in spite of the fierce bushfires raging across the country, which many experts say are made worse by climate change.
    In response to the figures, the UK government said it is providing £350m in funding to help heavy industries transition away from the fuel…

    Yet experts today warned the Prime Minister appeared to harbour unrealistic expectations of the summit, after Johnson promised during Prime Minister’s Questions that COP26 could deliver “enforceable limits” on carbon emissions to be introduced internationally.
    “We will be leading the COP26 summit, where we will introduce enforceable limits not just for this country, but for the whole world,” he told MPs.

    The Independent reported that the remarks had prompted criticism from climate campaigners, who argued Johnson appeared to fail to understand that the Paris Agreement is built on a system of voluntary emissions targets made by countries. As such there is no realistic prospect of mandatory emissions cuts being introduced at the UN meeting.
    “Without a formal commitment to get these enforceable limits over the line, and without the backing of other nations, these words are nothing but hot air,” said Sam Chetan-Welsh, Greenpeace UK’s political adviser.

    “We have a prime minister demonstrating a complete lack of understanding of what world leaders are trying to achieve at COP26,” added Wera Hobhouse, climate emergency spokesperson for the Liberal Democrats. “That is no better than climate change denial.”
    https://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news/3085083/johnson-announces-ban-on-foreign-aid-for-coal-mines-and-power-stations

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    pat

    21 Jan: BBC: Farm fears over National Trust plans to plant 20 million trees
    By Aled Scourfield
    Plans to plant more than 20 million trees could be damaging for Welsh farmers, a union has warned.
    The National Trust wants to create 18,000 hectares (44,478 acres) of new woodland across Wales, England and Northern Ireland by 2030.
    President of the Farmers’ Union of Wales Glyn Roberts said he feared grazing areas could be lost in order to meet the target…
    The organisation wants to increase the proportion of its land covered by trees from 10% to 17% in a bid to reach a “carbon net zero” target…

    But Mr Roberts, a National Trust tenant farmer near Betws y Coed, Conwy county, said he feared forestry in rural areas could have a negative impact on farmers, food production and communities, if grassland is lost.
    “If you look at Penmachno, just a few miles from here, tree planting has caused depopulation and had a negative impact on the Welsh language and culture,” he said.
    “I feel agriculture has been attacked from all sides during the past six months. This is another blow that we don’t need.”
    Mr Roberts said grassland could be effective in tackling global warming and the farming industry had worked to mitigate the impact.

    The National Trust said the extra woodland would help lock up to 300,000 tonnes of carbon – equivalent to the energy output of 37,000 homes a year…
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-51182034

    21 Jan: UK Independent: Cover one-fifth of UK in trees to save climate and revive wildlife, government told
    Housebuilders must be set strict targets for new developments, says Woodland Trust
    by Jane Dalton; Additional reporting by PA
    Tree-planting must be ramped up on a huge scale to help the UK effectively cancel out its carbon emissions and tackle wildlife losses, conservationists have told the government…
    England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland each need to set new annual targets that will put the UK as a whole on track to have almost one-fifth (19 per cent) of its land covered by trees and woodland by 2050, the trust says…

    The Woodland Trust also said all new housebuilding developments must have one-third of their land covered with canopy, by retaining mature trees and planting native, UK-sourced species…
    The government’s advisory Committee on Climate Change (CCC) has said up to 19 per cent of the country needs to be covered with trees by 2050 to help meet targets to absorb enough greenhouse gases for the UK to become carbon-neutral…
    The CCC advice would require an extra 1.5 million total hectares (3.7 million acres) of woodland, or 1.5 billion trees in all, which would mean at least 30,000 hectares being planted every year.

    But the Woodland Trust has gone even further, arguing for an increase from the 13,390 hectares planted in 2018-19 across the UK, to about 35,000 hectares a year up to 2025, and then even bigger increases to meet the 2050 goal…

    A separate government-commissioned report warned the UK would have to invest billions of pounds every year in greenhouse gas removal and conversion of swathes of land into forests…

    At the weekend Boris Johnson was accused of making unrealistic promises about a key climate summit the UK is hosting this year, by pledging to pile pressure on “the whole world” to agree “enforceable limits” on carbon emissions…
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tree-plant-net-zero-carbon-woodland-trust-climate-change-crisis-a9293586.html

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    • #
      Fred Streeter

      But, but, I have done all this already!

      Does no-one remember “Plant a Tree in 73″?

      (Or was it actually followed by “Buy a Saw in 74″, as suggested by a certain Mr Cleese?)

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      hatband

      They’re getting rid of Beef Cattle by stealth in the U.K. too.

      That seems to be the real agenda, of Climate Chamge.

      As if the United States is going to allow the U.N. to kill the PetroDollar.

      But they’ll eagerly assist the U.N. in culling the Beef Herd drastically, that’s the path to Trillionaire status for Big Agra and Big Pharma.

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    • #
      Another Ian

      Sounds to me that the Woodland Trust ought to do some readings on the competitive effects of trees and the ground layer vegetation

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  • #
    pat

    ?????????????????

    21 Jan: Bloomberg: Australia’s Fires Likely Emitted as Much Carbon as All Planes
    An ***unprecedented fire season will likely add as much as 900 million metric tons to Australia’s greenhouse-gas output in 2019.
    By Akshat Rathi and Laura Millan Lombrana; With assistance by Brian K Sullivan, and David Stringer
    The fires sweeping Australia probably have doubled the nation’s annual greenhouse-gas emissions, producing as much climate-damaging pollution as all the airplanes in the world, new research shows…READ ALL
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-21/australia-wildfires-cause-greenhouse-gas-emissions-to-double

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    pat

    20 Jan: Nature: Paris taught me how to do what is necessary to combat climate change
    To the world leaders mustering in Davos: set your minds to reaching net-zero emissions, and you can forge the future we need.
    by Christiana Figueres
    Of the many barriers to achieving this goal, the greatest is mindset. I had to learn this a decade ago when I was appointed to lead the international climate-change negotiations that resulted in the 2015 Paris agreement: ultimately, 195 nations pledged to reduce emissions and alter their economies to protect our planet. They also agreed to increase their efforts towards net-zero emissions substantially every five years. That makes 2020 a crucial year. We cannot afford for governments to let that key commitment slip…

    …I posit that most people, including many of those attending the Davos meeting, still harbour the view that it is impossible to truly transform our economy in one decade. We cannot afford such fatalism. Swift change has happened before, and without being driven by planetary necessity: the global Internet is just 30 years old…

    The global economy is a huge, complex system. As I learnt during my stewardship of the Paris agreement, if you do not control the complex landscape of a challenge (and you rarely do), the most powerful thing you can do is to change how you behave in that landscape, using yourself as a catalyst for overall change…

    To all the people gathering in Davos, and all those watching from the outside, I urge you to move firmly into a state of stubborn optimism. The Anthropocene, the proposed geological age we now live in, does not need to go down in history as the age characterized by human-induced destruction. It can be the time when we rewrite our expected future for a better one: we still hold the pen. We must conceive of success and take immediate steps towards it.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00112-6

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      Kalm Keith

      Such beautiful writing by Christyanna.

      Poetic.

      Davos, no doubt being the inspiration for that reflective item

      What’s she on, besides our money.

      KK

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    beowulf

    Climate change causes school hall at Lane Cove Public School to catch fire.
    This could have been prevented by shutting all coal mines. Wink.

    https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/school-hall-at-lane-cove-public-school-catches-fire/ar-BBZa7ft?ocid=spartanntp

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  • #
    graham dunton

    Yes, a wuwt link, to what is called the meat wars. Very pertinent to Australia, but it is a bout scientific replication, you know proper science. Also, in the article a reference to another JCU researcher, non- replicable.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/01/20/the-meat-wars-jama-stirs-the-pot/

    30

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    DonS

    Hi Jo

    Is it just me or have we had a very quite cyclone season in Aus this year? There was one off the northwest coast a few weeks ago but nothing else. I thought we were supposed to be getting bigger, stronger, faster cyclones in this age of climate catastrophe.

    If people truly believe that the bushfires are caused or linked or something to climate change then where are all the Australian cyclones we should be also be getting punished by? There is still a way to go in the season so we may yet get them but it does seem strangely quiet so far.

    30

  • #

    From me to you.

    Jo Nova’s amazing Australian fire coverage
    By David Wojick

    https://www.cfact.org/2020/01/21/jo-novas-amazing-australian-fire-coverage/

    Many skeptics have written about the Australian bush fires, but science writer and blogger Jo Nova has done something truly remarkable. She has done a running in-depth analysis of both fires and the absurd climate claims made by the alarmists.

    With 15 fact filled blog posts to date and more coming, hers is a real time documentary of how the alarmists turn natural tragedy into breathless absurdity. I have seen nothing approaching it in terms of the depth of analysis. As they span 5 months, with many other posts in between, I have posted a listing of these fire articles on my Climate Change Debate Education website here: https://ccdedu.blogspot.com/2020/01/jo-nova-analyzes-austrailian-fires.html

    There are tons of data, both historical and recent, not just on fires but also on the lack of preventive management. Australia is prone to major fires, each followed by careful studies on prevention that were then ignored. Green policies have made things even worse, although this is far from the worst fire season in history.

    Yet Nova spends just as much time lancing the hyperbolic balloons of the climate change alarmists, who have made the Australian fires the new false idol of hysteria. Here Nova is at her wittily scornful best. This line will give you the flavor: “This is an idea surrounded by layers of dumb. Like an onion, but not that smart.”

    Another fascinating feature are the comments, which number in the thousands. Unlike many raucous blogs, these comments often weave themselves into thoughtful discussions, adding even more facts to the analytical narrative.

    Mind you this is an Australian blog about an Australian situation, so there is a good bit of local jargon. This includes both people and places, although many place names are fun in their own right. This includes the fact that Aussies often whimsically refer to their country as “Oz”.

    For example, one quickly learns that the ABC is the billion dollar a year, publicly funded Australian Broadcasting Company, which is every bit as alarmist as its British counterpart, the BBC. Okay they are Australian dollars but it is still a lot of money. Then too, Scott Morrison, called ScoMo, is the prime minister who just defeated the alarmists in what was supposed to be the climate change national election. Boy are the alarmists after him, including the ABC. There are deep international implications to all of this local stuff.

    If you go to the site, you might also poke around in some of the other topics that Nova covers. This especially includes the mad rush to renewables. It seems Australia leads the world in per capita implementation of wind and solar. As Nova frequently notes, they have the blackouts and soaring electric bills to prove it. Here too the data is impressive, while some commenters are experts on these renewable problems. That Oz still gets about 75% of its juice from coal makes this issue especially thorny.

    Also of interest, are what is called “unthreaded” posts, where the commenters take the lead. This is often like the best news coverage of crazy climate alarmism around the world that money can buy, and it is free. Plus if you have a question you can ask it and expect an answer or even have a lengthy discussion. This is why I hang out there.

    Note that I am not claiming to have discovered Jo Nova’s dynamite blog. In fact CFACT recently reprinted one of her fire posts and Marc Morano frequently flags her stuff on Climate Depot. Go to http://joannenova.com.au/ for the full deal.

    My point is simply that her skeptical coverage of the Australian bush fires is amazing (and entertaining). Given that the alarmists are now chanting “The planet is burning” Nova’s insightful analysis is important.

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    Zane

    Newsreader the other day mentioned the ” drastically changing climate “.

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    WXcycles

    Anomalous Jetstream Speed Update:

    Just one image this time, the forecast for Australia Day at 34,000 ft.

    https://i.ibb.co/0Gxpfsd/Global-Jetstream-pattern-Screenshot-2020-01-22-Windy-as-forecasted.jpg

    Red line is the Equator.

    We are now at about the peak of Summer in the Southern Hemisphere, and as you can see the Summer hemisphere’s jetstream, which should by now be noticeably atrophied and much weaker, is instead visually almost indistinguishable from the very strong Winter northern hemisphere jetstream. They are currently at about the same speed in general. This should not be the case – or anything close to it. The Southern jet is also still closer to the tropics than it should be during the full Summer’s convective uplift .

    The wind speeds are still forecast in the 395 km/h to 400 km/h range, just to the east of Japan. Plus there are ~375 km/h jets @ 39,000 ft over the Persian gulf. Which is pretty much unheard of prior to the past 3 months of globally elevated jetstream speeds.

    In the southern-hemisphere the peak jetstream wind-speed forecast remains ~140 km/h faster than the ~215 km/h that they should currently be, toward the end of January. Peak jet speed forecasts are up to ~370 km/h but the overall wind speed is down about 30 km/h from a week ago. Thus the Summer hemisphere’s jetstream remains extraordinarily energetic and overactive, because the mid-latitude Low’s tops are still being filled with colder upper-level intrusive dry air into the top of the mid-latitude cell.

    The other significant change shown and highlighted by arrows within the image linked is of jets mixing and reinforcing each other across the equator line. As both hemispheres are about equally strong and swollen both are also still extending into the tropics. That’s normally not the case, so such mixing across the equator is relatively rare compared to now, but it’s become almost continuous since about Christmas.

    It’s presently my view that the peak jet speeds are being capped at around 410 km/h because as the speed rises the jets also swell in volume and depth, plus they likewise begin to spread equatorward, thus limiting how tight the pressure gradient becomes. That equatorward spreading by smaller branching jets promotes almost continuous equator-crossing jet interactions, as shown. It’s a two-way mixing, but is dominated by south-side air moving to the north-side of the equator line. Not sure where the return-flow comes back to the south-side of the equator yet.

    [Email coming - Jo]

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      WXcycles

      Mod, if you want me to stop posting images like this, just say so.

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        WXcycles

        Hi Andy, I already have ‘Ventusky’ but generally don’t use it as it’s a lot less flexible for my purposes and doesn’t show the necessary detail, plus doesn’t display ECMWF. It’s good for a general WX display but you can’t reprogram it to make the display completely linear and maximize display precision and detail levels to easily highlight the change trend.

        The standard ‘Windy’ display layers are also pretty horrible, they’re a dumbed-down version of what Windy can actually do, meant for non-specialist general public use. As a result they’re inaccurate, imprecise and filter out a lot of the available detail because they’re strongly non-linear. The saving grace is Windy’s software is very flexible and accessible so you can reprogram it to greatly extend the display sensitivity and the linearity of WX trend changes. I spent about 2-years gradually developing linear replacement graphics for all of Windy’s screens so that I could detect and track change trends you otherwise can’t see. I was amazed at how much very useful forecast detail was hidden.

        The screens I post here are as precise and detailed as can be wrung out of current models, nothing gets hidden or over emphasized by non-linear effects or filtered out by display cutoff filters. What the model run contained gets displayed in full without visual distortion. It’s still a 2D display so area-distortion with latitude remains. Windy had a 3D display option a few years back but the owner disabled that option which was a bit of a backward step. Hope they rethink that.

        Anyway I had a grump above about why posts have begun to go directly to moderation if they contain even one graphics file. I thought this was perhaps a hint to quit posting screens, but apparently that wasn’t the case.

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      el gordo

      Good work, this might be your second scoop. We need to discover whether the mingling of jet streams at the equator is unusual.

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        WXcycles

        I have seen it before but the instances are fairly isolated with a few hours to half a day of it. But this has been going on for several weeks. I don’t know if anything like that has been seen before with balloon-based radiosonde tracks perhaps. I suspect it’s recent continuity is a novel behavior. I’m kinda curious as to where and how any displaced northern air re-enters the southern hemisphere, and if such a flow can be unambiguously identified. Maybe.

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      el gordo

      Paul Beckwith (warmest) raised the red flag in 2016 and it went viral, but then Roy Spencer hosed down any idea that it was unprecedented.

      http://www.drroyspencer.com/2016/06/climate-system-scientist-claims-jet-stream-crossing-the-equator-is-unprecedented/

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        WXcycles

        Nice find, Roy Spencer is always overflowing with perspective.

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        WXcycles

        One thing Roy Spencer said in that article I’m going to disagree with Gordo. He’s right according to his knowledge base (which is incomparably better than mine), but he’s actually not correct.

        “… A “jet stream” in the usual sense of the word is caused by the thermal wind, which cannot exist at the equator because there is no Coriolis force. To the extent that there is cross-equator flow at jet stream levels, it is usually from air flowing out of deep convective rain systems. … “

        Dr. Spencer is of course technically correct here.

        Nevertheless, within the link I posted today, as given again here, there’s a genuine west to east equatorial jet west of Peru, which is mostly on the south-side of the equator, but also somewhat on the north-side of it. Which jet extends back westwards into the south central Pacific and then on down to the southern subtropical jet flow, and also connects to the very strong jet flowing over the north Atlantic into West Africa (which is set to generate ~375 km/h jet over the Persian Gulf and Iran).

        This feature is a real equatorial jet, west of Peru. It isn’t just some convective outflow remnant or transient . That equatorial jet has been present there for over a week, and its forecast to still be there 10 days from now, and doing much the same thing as shown.

        https://i.ibb.co/0Gxpfsd/Global-Jetstream-pattern-Screenshot-2020-01-22-Windy-as-forecasted.jpg

        If you look above and below that jet through time you can see it’s a genuine equatorial ‘jet’ flow, which is continuously moving air from the southern-hem to the northern-hem, but it is also linked to the northern-hem’s subtropical jet, at both of its ends! Which is a pretty unusual configuration, never seen it before, but it more or less remains that way and about in the same location. So the usual thermal-Coriolis mechanism can have a surprising equatorial expression regardless of theory as to what’s mechanistically possible.

        Thus equatorial jets do occur, it’s happening right now. And it actually a jet linking both hemispheres. We just haven’t recognized that before. That much departs from what he’s saying is a usual observed transient flow situation across the equator.

        This does seem to be a sustained novel structure and jet behavior.

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          WXcycles

          Ah … same

          “Your comment is awaiting moderation.”

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            el gordo

            Could we suggest its a global cooling signal?

            Cool sun, meandering jet stream and blocking highs are new and not in the AGW script, so we take Beckwith’s catastrophism and turn it on its head.

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              WXcycles

              Other people will make up their mind about it Gordo, my opinion means nothing to them. To me it means the top of the tropopause to mid-levels poleward of the subtropical jet has been intruded by an excess of colder air sinking in from the lower stratosphere. I think the observations and models support that and nothing else I can come up with to explain it can, especially its total indifference to seasons and radical alteration of the normal seasonal jetstream pattern in each hemisphere.

              Other’s mileage may vary as they’ll not be prepared to accept that could even occur (even on this board). But something major changed within the upper troposphere poleward of the jets, during all of 2019, from the breaking of the US aircraft-observed fastest jet in Feb 2019 until now. And that change became much more prominent and obvious from November 2019 to now, and it is oscillating on a weekly basis, but is generally maintaining its intensity. The southern hemisphere is genuinely a bit nuts right now, the wind is not as wide spread as in the north-hum but the speeds are the same, the peak of summer is having almost no effect on weakening or shrinking the sub-tropical jet.

              At some point Pro-Meteorologists are going to have to bite-the-bullet and admit something very unusual and unexpected has been occurring for at least a year and that it looks very much like it’s upper and middle tropospheric cooling polewards of the jetstream flows.

              But how do you then spin that into bigger buckets of money and more UN Climate-Gender-Change™, and advanced-stupidity training courses within public schools, and the increasingly jumped-the-shark universities o’ naked useless fools?

              That’s sure going to be tricky. They may have to resurrect and dust off the iceage-cometh meme! And what about the consensus? Lord have mercy! So until they figure that out what to do about that and engineer they can keep stealing the working people’s money from their wallets, and can construct new mega-lies and fake a new industry of memes, with their extensive lie-support industrial complex, I’d say the ad-hoc response at the UN, DAVOS and .gov met-agencies will continue to be radical denial until that’s no longer credible.

              /nothing to see here folks, move along

              My crystal ball is unfortunately out of battery juice but it’s surely going to be entertaining.

              __
              I don’t know that blocking-Highs are ‘new’ though, I’m sure you don’t think they are. ;-)

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                Graeme Bird

                “To me it means the top of the tropopause to mid-levels poleward of the subtropical jet has been intruded by an excess of colder air sinking in from the lower stratosphere. I think the observations and models support that and nothing else I can come up with to explain it can, especially its total indifference to seasons and radical alteration of the normal seasonal jetstream pattern in each hemisphere.”

                especially its total indifference to seasons

                Thats a debunking right there. Total indifference to seasons means that the magic photon theory cannot hold. It must be sent to the fires.

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    Dave

    “The teacher resources even include a 15-page ‘wellbeing guide’ for teachers and parents, which warns: Children may respond to the climate change scientific material in a number of ways. They may experience a whole host of difficult emotions, including fear, helplessness, frustration, anger, guilt, grief, and confusion. When discussing the material, teachers may encounter students who cope through avoidance, denial, diversionary tactics, wishful thinking and a range of other coping mechanisms. This isn’t teaching kids how to think – it’s telling them how to feel.”

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    Dave

    teachers may encounter students who cope through avoidance (Um this is utter nonsense) denial (I know for a fact this is wrong) , diversionary tactics (schooling the the teacher with the truth), wishful thinking (being calm and rational in the face of absurdities).

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    James in Melbourne

    As a lurker and extremely rare commenter, I wondered if I could lean on Cats’ greater knowledge.

    I was in a conversation with someone who attested that Michael Mann’s Hockey Stick has in fact been strengthened by recent research; that it has been replicated and validated (although I was not aware that Mann had given his proprietary data to anyone), and accepted now as fact.

    Can anyone enlighten me as to the actual state of play of the Stick? I thought that McIntyre had comprehensively demolished it.

    Thanks in advance.

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      el gordo

      Nothing has come up on the radar, so probably a false rumour. These days he hangs out at the University NSW, Sydney’s academic wing of the Klimatariat.

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      Bruce of Newcastle

      Mann lost his court case with Dr Tim Ball because he refused to provide the Court with the methodology and data used to produce the Hockey Stick. Which pretty much shows the Hockey Stick isn’t amenable to scientific examination. There’ve been a few hockey stick press releases lately (eg. from Joelle Gergis – another hockeystickian) but the graph is still bulldust on stilts.

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    Bruce of Newcastle

    Here’s one for Joanne.

    ‘Treasure trove’ of new discoveries highlights gaps in coral knowledge (Phys.org, 21 July)

    Scientists discovered dozens of new coral species on a recent voyage along the length of the Great Barrier Reef.

    A team of scientists completed a 21-day trip from the Capricorn Bunkers off Gladstone to Thursday Island in the Torres Strait late last year.

    “On almost every dive we were finding species that aren’t in the books,” said Professor Andrew Baird from the ARC Centre of Excellence for Coral Reef Studies at James Cook University (Coral CoE at JCU).

    Scientists from Queensland Museum (QM), University of Technology Sydney (UTS) and the King Abdullah University of Science and Technology (KAUST) in Saudi Arabia were also part of the expedition.

    So a bunch of JCU weenies did a tour of the GBR from Gladstone to Thursday Island and found oodles of new coral species. Hilariously there is no mention of ‘climate change’ nor ‘global warming’ anywhere in the story. Nor is there any description of the GBR as a blackened miserable wasteland of slime, algae and crown of thorns starfish.

    Why, anyone reading it might conclude the Reef is in vibrant health!

    It’s a mystery. Maybe Dr Ridd could comment on this astounding finding. /s

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    william x

    hatband quoted in a recent post:

    “Women, in general, are forces for Conformity rather than Invention and Progress”

    hatband is entitled to his/her opinion. and that’s ok.

    I disagree with hatbands’ statement. and that’s ok.

    I would like to ask you on this blog to reply and post your opinion re my question below.

    Whom is the woman, that you personally think has been outstanding in their field in Invention or progress? and why?

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      Kalm Keith

      Obviously.

      Jo.

      She absorbed what was put in front of her, accepting it on trust and believing that “science” was incorruptible.

      On continuing to examine the reality of her belief, she became uncomfortably aware that all was not right.

      She went deeper and found she had been misled.

      Like most women, she resented being misled, and now we have the revenge here on her blog.

      A curious mix of inquiry, learning, discussion,comedy, blog clogging and above All, Revenge.

      KK

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    Another Ian

    “William Happer – Climate Models Do CO2 With Incorrect Radiative Wings”

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2020/01/14/william-happer-climate-models-do-co2-with-incorrect-radiative-wings/

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    yarpos

    Changes to the AEMO site and the much loved NEM dispatch page. The have taken away the energy type on that page so you cant see how useless “wind and other” is at any instant. However they have added a whole new fuel type used page over selectable periods. This is far more usefull and relevant I think.

    The graphs are a wonderful illustration of Tony from OZs point re the flat line nature of coal delivery and the pathetic nature of expensive so called renewables. The lack of bang for buck is writ large.

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