JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Midweek Unthreaded

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Rating: 8.9/10 (20 votes cast)
Midweek Unthreaded, 8.9 out of 10 based on 20 ratings

196 comments to Midweek Unthreaded

  • #

    Oh the irony, another failed Green scheme:

    Ancient rock art at Carnarvon Gorge destroyed after walkway explodes in bushfire

    It has been revealed that ancient rock art was destroyed after a recycled-plastic walkway intended to protect the site exploded during a bushfire in Carnarvon National Park.

    140

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Oh that’s gotta hurt…..

      30

      • #
        PeterS

        Won’t hurt where it should – the Greens and the rest who thought of the idea to use recycled plastic instead of some fire resistant material in an area where bush fires are not unexpected. Where’s WHS?

        60

    • #
      David Maddison

      Gosh, who’d have thought a recycled “green” plastic walkway in a bushfire zone with no flame retardant would have been flammable huh? Another failed “green” decision. Idiots!

      10

  • #
    scaper...

    Now that Iran has attacked US bases in Iran, how will Trump respond? Me? Vaporise the vermin!

    811

    • #
      yarpos

      Just drop tecycled plastic walkways

      20

    • #
      glen Michel

      Yeah scaper.. lets get the Russians involved. Nuclear? maybe not.Who can say.

      00

    • #
      Graeme Bird

      You might have things confused Scaper. America and its allies created and supported ISIS. The General fought and defeated ISIS. So the deep state tricked the President into killing the General. Thats hardly something to be happy about.

      27

      • #
        Deplorable Lord Kek

        America and its allies created and supported ISIS.

        Yes.

        The General fought and defeated ISIS

        that was terrorists fighting terrorists.

        02

        • #
          Graeme Bird

          DLK you can say that. But how far do you have to go back to be sure of it? The whole point of terrorism is to be blaming it on someone else. And you get this drumbeat claiming Iran did this, Iran did that. But it really amounts to Cato the Censor always calling for the destruction of Carthage. I’ll take it from the fall of Gaddafi. And if I take it from that time period I think that the Iranians have acted responsibly. If not heroically. Sometimes you want to forget the ancient history.

          22

          • #
            Deplorable Lord Kek

            Yes, there is a lot of propaganda coming out of the Syrian ‘civil war’ zone (need we mention the academy award winning ‘white helmets’).

            But this was shia (Iranian) jihadists fighting sunni (SA/Israel/US/etc backed) jihadists.

            “Sometimes you want to forget the ancient history.”: yes, but this shia/sunni internecine civil war has been raging since 632AD.

            30

            • #
              Graeme Bird

              Thats what they say. But then you’d have to wonder if third party provocation hasn’t been going on all that time, supposing you are right.

              52

              • #
                Deplorable Lord Kek

                i guess my bottom line is that i’m not comfortable with iran having nukes.

                20

              • #
                Graeme Bird

                Well they will get them now. They are not as crazy as they were in 1979. The revolution was assisted and manipulated from the outside by the way. So the craziness was baked in, in terms of which clerics were given power and which were executed. They Iranians now have to get nukes, because they cannot put up with outrages of this sort. The leading anti-terrorist murdered while on a diplomatic mission. Thats a closing down of all civilised norms. Iran having nukes won’t be the worst thing in the world. The leadership could still be decapitated if there was a valid complaint rather than a rolling thunder of misleading memes. And it might be that this would dissuade the sort of stuff going on within Yemen if they had them.

                Not long ago the President hadn’t even heard of the General. That shows he is being managed very carefully.

                24

              • #
                Deplorable Lord Kek

                Well they will get them [nukes] now

                they were guaranteed to get them under the Obama deal, which is why Trump found it so objectionable (Podesta even admits as much in the wikileaks emails).

                i’ve heard some interesting theories about the drone strike on the general, but we’ll just have to see how this one pans out.

                00

              • #
                Graeme Bird

                Thats completely backwards. Under the Obama deal they weren’t seeking nukes. They didn’t want them. That was always propaganda. They will get them now. Because they need them. From the time that Hillary Clinton was secretary of state and destroyed Libya, people have been realising that they probably need them. Just to be treated in accordance with some level of decency. Now Iran has confirmation. If you want to see people ruthlessly using micro-nukes in the field check out what some unknown parties did in Homs Syria. Caught on film.

                Trump sees things from the view of a hard bargaining real estate man in semi-gangster territory. Now that works fantastically well some times. But it cannot be viewed as a perfect fit for every occasion. Under the influence of people who clearly have him cornered, he’s hurting people all over the world for no good reason. And this latest move is in the direction of barbarism. He should be friends with the General. Trump wanted to defeat ISIS and the General actually defeated ISIS. They should have been pals except that third parties get in the way. Then he kills the anti-terrorist when he was on his way to peace talks. This is insanity.

                12

              • #
                Deplorable Lord Kek

                Thats completely backwards. Under the Obama deal they weren’t seeking nukes. They didn’t want them. That was always propaganda

                Not what was said in private:

                on the nuclear deal reached with Iran
                Jul 15, 2015

                “John Anzalone”:

                > “This agreement condemns the next generation to cleaning up a nuclear
                > war in the Persian Gulf… This is the greatest appeasement since Chamberlain
                > gave Czechoslovakia to Hitler.”

                Podesta: “Yup”

                read if for yourself here:

                https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/727

                An Iran nuclear deal framework was reached on 2 April 2015.

                00

              • #
                Graeme Bird

                Podesta. Ho ho. Do you have some preference to who should win in a war in that region? Do you prefer the family Saud? Or some horrible little nation of terrorists, child-killers and foreign interlopers? I would choose Iran to be number one if that choice were available. Once you hear see adults shooting unarmed kids from the safe side of a fence or people being starved off in Yemen for no good reason, its okay to let your preferences update.

                12

            • #
              hatband

              D.L Kek says:

              “Sometimes you want to forget the ancient history.”: yes, but this shia/sunni internecine civil war has been raging since 632AD.

              Sure, Kek.

              All the terrorist attacks on U.S. soil have been carried out by Sunni Muslims.

              The U.S. has mo theological dispute with Iran, and the Shi’ites aren’t a security risk in the U.S.. Ever ask yourself why America has taken the side of people who have killed thousands of Americans?

              11

              • #
                Deplorable Lord Kek

                Ever ask yourself why America has taken the side of people who have killed thousands of Americans?

                Oh, yes, but let’s not say ‘America’, but those who control America.

                10

              • #
                Graeme Bird

                All the terrorist attacks on U.S. soil have been carried out by Sunni Muslims.

                I get your wider point and its a very good one. But this has to be looked at. All the larger and more famous of such attacks turn out to be faked events or false flags. And the smaller ones are usually FBI entrapment operations.

                People who blame the Japanese too much for Pearl Harbour are really gypping a lot of people of a great deal of hard work. It took a lot of hard work, years and decades of effort to estrange the Japanese from the British and the Americans. A lot of work. We need to credit the people who work so hard for these goals. Your wider point is a good one because its taken so much effort to keep the American people and the Shia Muslims estranged. Here I take it from AFTER the Iran-Iraq war since prior to that it might be that everyone was still full of revolutionary zeal. Its like this breach between the Russian people and the West now. Takes a lot of hard hard work to keep these hostilities fruitful and evergreen. These people are so much our natural friends, and we must not steal the credit from those who work around the clock to make things otherwise.

                21

          • #
            PeterW

            Wrong.

            The whole point to terrorism is to frighten people into doing what you want.

            That is why the major terrorist groups are loud and proud about their activities. They actively claim responsibility because they want us to believe that they can hurt us.

            Conspiracy theories lack common sense.

            Oh…. And the US is supposed to have created ISIS? Can someone explain to us how this is the case when the fundamental motivation and political structure of ISIS has been around for 1000 years longer than the US. They didn’t just appear out of thin air in the last few years.

            51

            • #
              Graeme Bird

              No completely wrong. The loudness and proudness is to distract people from the state and intelligence agency creators and controllers. Thats why terrorist groups always used to have “popular” in their names back in the 70′s. The popular front for peoples popular populism. You’d have dozens of these groups all purporting to be organic grass roots undertakings when they are really just intelligence agency hirelings. Terrorism is always counter-productive to the group believed to be doing the terrorism. Since while you are killing old ladies your opponents can be hitting military targets and taking out trained soldiers. So it can have no use for the group its blamed on and it requires media connivance. We see this with the Gladio program. Which gave us the impression that the Soviets were behind all terrorism. Of course they were a terrorist state but we had our own people engaging in the same behaviour.

              32

            • #
              Graeme Bird

              “Can someone explain to us how this is the case when the fundamental motivation and political structure of ISIS has been around for 1000 years longer than the US. They didn’t just appear out of thin air in the last few years.”

              Sounds like Robert Spencer. Hangs out with crazy Pamela and talks a lot about ancient history. And his ancient history is very good. But he’s spawned a legion of people that show up at a crime scene and pull out an ancient book in order to figure out what is going on. If you show up at a crime scene its got to be more forensic then what can be found in ancient writings. Like who ran security at the airports. That sort of thing.

              32

              • #
                PeterW

                GB.

                You may not consider those ancient writings worth respect, but it is obvious that they do.

                Any assessment of your enemy that does not take into account the things that he considers important, will be in error.

                As you are.

                And yes… we had a great bunch of little terrorist groups because a great bunch of little groups believed that terrorism would get them what they want.

                One of the things that they want is for us to be divided against ourselves and you are following their script. Like I said, you lack common sense. The idea that giving weapons to fanatics is going to make them good citizens….

                11

            • #
              Graeme Bird

              Conspiracy theories lack common sense.

              Hilarious. Must be part of a standup routine.

              41

            • #
              Graeme Bird

              You haven’t checked Peter W. You are not an expert on this subject. You had 18 years to figure out who did what and you failed. And you, by your own admission are so stupid you are ruling out conspiracy even in the world of intelligence operations. The persistence of the global warming bad science would be possible without conspiracy. Get a grip on yourself. If you are looking at a big terrorist attack, find out who controlled the airports, the buildings, the litigation and the media. And then draw some conclusions that aren’t based on some sort of anti-scientific liver-quiver.

              You are enough of a scientist to be a regular at this blog. You know something about the scientific method. USE IT. Its there to be used.

              31

              • #
                Graeme Bird

                The persistence of the global warming “bad science” would be impossible WITHOUT conspiracy is what I meant to say.

                If you reject conspiracy you reject all commons sense. You reject everything every insider has ever said about intelligence operations including the entire works of John LeCarre. If you reject conspiracy you reject logic, any knowledge of history, and in light of the garish nature of recent conspiracies, you have to reject physics as well. You have to reject anything anyone ever knew about forensics. And you have to be an idiot. Which you are. 18 years? You have to be an incurious stooge with incredibly flat learning curves.

                31

            • #
              Graeme Bird

              Peter the realities that Robert Spencer brings to the table are real realities and they ought to be managed with some respectful nuance to immigration policy. They are not to be brought into modern forensics. Agent Spencer is great with history and an idiot with contemporary events. So much so that you’d have to wonder if crazy Pamela hasn’t gotten to him with her amazing temptress appeal. Some of these older ladies; They still got it.

              11

        • #
          hatband

          Better not bother those Arsonists in their progressive burning down of Australia, then?

          Wouldn’t want to be called a Terrorist.

          10

      • #
        WXcycles

        The ‘General’ was just another flavor of ISIL.

        11

        • #
          Graeme Bird

          How do you figure that?

          31

        • #
          Graeme Bird

          Do you prefer “The Great General”? or perhaps “The Greatest Military Genius Of The 21st Century”?

          The problem with killing good people is that they are no longer there when you need them. The White Knight was visiting Iraq to have talks, on the invitation of the Sauds. The motive for his murder can be ascertained by noting that the Iraqi high official killed was also a successful warrior against ISIS. The main venue where Iran and Saudi Arabia were in conflict were in Yemen. So these were potentially peace talks about Yemen. Whose going to save the children from starvation now? Whose going to fight ISIS?

          There are those out there who live in mortal fear of peace breaking out. So whenever they see someone willing and able to find peace, they tend to assassinate such people.

          31

      • #
        Graeme Bird

        From here on in I’m calling the ISIS fighter The White Prince We Anglo-Saxon-Romano-Celts had our Black Prince who was no angel. And who did some very wrong things when he was deathly ill and needed to be carried around on a pallet.

        Statisticians say that all traditional Australians are descended from the father of the Black Prince.

        The thing is if the Black Prince had lived, the violence between Britain and the mainland may have come to an end, and there definitely would not have been any war of the roses. So the capacity to kick ass is very important. If the goal is peace and not enslavement.

        How did things go so far? I don’t know? How could we have been estranged from our Iranian brothers and sisters? On the Pontic-Caspian Steppe the Yamnaya tribe reinvented the wheel and adapted to horse milk as adults, even prior to the Mongolians. Their tight herding lead to excellence in soil development, which lead to over-breeding. The problem is that grasslands on their own are productive, but not resilient. So with every drought the Pontic-Caspian Steppe pumped Yamnaya down the coast of the Black sea, and later down the coast of the Caspian sea.

        The Yamnaya that followed the Black Sea displaced old Europe and became new Europe. And pushed old Europe all the way down to Italy and North Africa. The Yamnaya who went down the Caspian coast became Iranians. Aryans. So they are our cousins. And the White Prince is our brother. Defeating third party sponsored terrorists is one of the most intractable problems of the modern era.

        So the White Prince is the brother to all of humanity. And if you can; send condolences to his family. Its not the Presidents fault. He was deceived.

        11

    • #

      Scaper, I don’t use the red thumb, but I just gave you one. I don’t like the idea of anonymous disapproval so I’m letting you know it was me.

      When that snake and flatterer Voltaire was congratulating Catherine the Great on the deaths of Turks against her armies, the Empress pulled him up and reminded him he was talking about the suffering and death of human beings. And she was concerned over enemy combatants. Now we talk of vaporising populations like they were flies and we’ve got the only can of Mortein.

      81

      • #
        WXcycles

        mosomoso, I hear you with regard to the mindset aspect, though there are two within that Tango. You don’t goad the US for 40 years and then directly attack it’s military forces with 15 precision long-range weapons and get to walk away like a victor. The Iranians have done this sort of attack before and a good chunk of their navy got wiped-out back then as well. The prior disregarded warning was for a potentially strongly “disproportionate” response, but they ignored the warning. At a minimum they can expect heavy return fire with missiles, if not a more concerted and damaging operation.

        31

        • #
          hatband

          The Deep State warehoused Khomeini in Paris for 15 years, then brought him back to Iran

          when the Shah was on his last legs

          So, America put the Mullahs in power, and they’ve kept them there.

          Why did 5 Deferments for Vietnam Trump order the murder of a battle hardened hero of the War

          on ISIS?

          Who knows?

          But the Mullahs grip has been shaky for a while, there were 700 Bank bombings in Iran in December.

          12

        • #
          Graeme Bird

          Where is this goading the US nonsense coming from? Goading the US for 40 years? Come now. This is a fantasy. This sounds like the make-believe Netanyahu comes up with every time he talks. Perhaps before planning the murder of more Iranian nationals.

          34

          • #
            PeterW

            The double-standard , here , is based partly on the theory that our enemy’s enemy is our friend.

            As we found out, Stalin was very good at killing Germans (or creating a nation that could do it) but he was not our friend or the friend of his own people. Being the second-worst villain does not make you a good guy.

            The outright hypocrisy in GBs argument is the apparent claim that the US should take responsibility for ISIS because they were once supported as “good guys” against the greater threat. We are supposed to be wrong for doing in respect to ISIS , exactly what he claims weSHOULD have done in respect to this General.

            Nope. In a fight between two groups of thugs, they are both thugs. Occasionally useful thugs, but don’t tell us that we “made” them thus.

            That would be dishonest.

            21

            • #
              hatband

              When did the U.S. ever bomb ISIS?

              Or take any Military Action that thwarted ISIS in any way?

              11

              • #
                Graeme Bird

                Never. The US never bombed ISIS. To even conceive of bombing the front group you have created and support is ridiculous. But then again you can imagine if a closely managed ageing President really got involved for awhile his minders may have had to do some semi-cosmetic bombing … you know … to keep the old man happy.

                11

            • #
              Graeme Bird

              No its not BLOWBACK. There is no blowback. ISIS is an Israeli-American front group. ISIS requires constant resources and assistance from its creators. We want to make that clear for starters.

              11

            • #
              Graeme Bird

              There was no reason to help Stalin. And there was no reason to hurt Hitler once he had declared war on Stalin. Since World War II was one of the greatest disasters of the ages, we have to assume the policy was all wrong. A Reaganesque and Wellingtonian strategy would have handled matters in a much more satisfactory fashion.

              Alternative analysis traces the decision to destroy Germany right back to the early 1880′s. The Germans were outstripping the British in every aspect. The British could have reformed their banking in order to match these German overachievers. But that would make the guaranteed earnings of a parasitical class untenable. So the decision seems to have been made, within the top elite of parasites, to destroy Germany by luring her into a war. Which ended up being characterised as two wars.

              If we reform banking we are all going to be showered with gold EXCEPT the bankers.

              01

            • #
              Graeme Bird

              As we found out, Stalin was very good at killing Germans

              Why kill Germans in the first place? What were the conflicts between Germany and Britain as early as 1890? There was no sense in killing Germans. The idea was to increase the new weapons budget and send the boys home to Momma.

              01

        • #
          Environment Skeptic

          The Iranians have done this sort of attack before and a good chunk of their navy got wiped-out back…..blah blah blah…..

          Yeah right…every Iranian just left the dishes and cooking in the middle of earning a crust to eat in order to go off attacking people.

          A very common mistake is to go around making ‘collective qualifications’ to describe humans by their geographical locations and so forth.

          Name the individual generals and leaders/power possessors all you like.. no argument from me there.

          11

          • #
            Environment Skeptic

            I down-thumb you WXcycles as i do not agree with a language which seems to indicate every Iranian or any other is responsible for the actions of the military industrial complex..

            22

            • #
              Greebo

              We run into this all the time. We employ Western thinking while analysing non Western thinking, Iranians are not free to express their opinions, so nobody knows what those opinions actually are. Like we saw in the last week, people poured into the streets to mourn Gen Qassim Soleimani, these people have NO choice. Aleksanddr Solzhenitsyn said in his epic Gulag Archipelago, , ( paraphrasing ) who will be the first to stop applauding? . Of corse Iranians are in the streets mourning. They would disappear if they didn’t.

              30

              • #
                Graeme Bird

                No thats complete bullshit. This is Iran and not North Korea or Mao’s China. They are out on the street because they are genuinely hurt …. losing the White Prince.

                03

              • #
                Graeme Bird

                No thats foolish. This is Iran and not North Korea or Mao’s China. They are out on the street because they are genuinely hurt …. losing the White Prince.

                13

        • #
          Greebo

          Indeed, and these days Iran hided behind Hezbollah and other groups. There is no doubt Iran, and more specifically Quds, were behind the attack and invasion of the US embassy in Iraq, which in anyone’s language an act of war, as Embassies are sovereign territory. The US response so far seems to me to have so far been measured, and targetted a uniformed hostile, and NOT Iranian civilians.
          Iran has been targetting the US since 1979, when that imbecile Carter was POTUS. It was amazing to watch how quickly they backed away from their hostage taking on the very day Reagan was sworn in as the 40th POTUS. Now Trump has given them pause for thought as well.
          Trump is on record, long before he even ran for the nomination, that he believed that the US involvement in Iraq was the worst decision in US history. I would argue that US involvement in Vietnam is right up there, but he’s right, and he’s right when he says it’s time to leave. This might just give him the opportunity to do so. I can hear Nadler and Pelosi’s teeth gnashing from here.

          30

          • #
            hatband

            It was amazing to watch how quickly they backed away from their hostage taking on the very day Reagan was sworn in as the 40th POTUS.

            Nothing amazing about it.

            Carter wasn’t a bad President, but the Deep State wasn’t happy with Carter, on account of

            his not being subservient enough.

            So they paid the Mullahs, who they’d installed anyway, to keep the hostages until

            the day after the Election.

            It was called October Surprise. You can look it up.

            12

            • #
              Greebo

              Of course I can kook it up. Anyone can, But I was there at the time, and I prefer my version. Carter was a fool. One Term idiot. Even the Democrats disown him.

              20

          • #
            Graeme Bird

            There is no doubt Iran, and more specifically Quds, were behind the attack and invasion of the US embassy in Iraq,

            Completely ridiculous. The Americans had just murdered 31 Iraqis fighting ISIS on the Syrian border just two days before. Murdered in cold blood. The Iraqis can get angry all on their own.

            Iran has been targetting the US since 1979, when that imbecile Carter was POTUS. It was amazing to watch how quickly they backed away from their hostage taking on the very day Reagan was sworn in as the 40th POTUS. Now Trump has given them pause for thought as well.

            Not entirely untrue but ignorant. The international criminal Bush senior organised the extended length of the hostage taking, and its fortuitous end.

            But no you cannot find verified incidents of Iran targeting Americans. Don’t believe everything you hear. You are living in a fantasy world where the usurper entity is not a terrorist state and the Iranians are. This completely the opposite of the truth.

            14

            • #
              Greebo

              Oh dear. What else can I say. Oh dear. PROVE IT!

              20

            • #
              Graeme Bird

              Prove what? The Americans killed 31 Iraqis two days before. The Iraqis were fighting ISIS on the border. The Americans asked permission to murder them. Accusing them of some fantasy charge. The answer was no. And the Americans murdered them anyway, since the Americans support their front group ISIS.

              There is nothing to prove. Thats what happened. That is why the Iraqis were angry. There is no evidence that the President knew anything about this. He was on holiday.

              13

            • #
              Graeme Bird

              Prove what? Your ignorance? You didn’t check? See I thought the same thing. The gravitas of old man Reagan meant that they set all the people free on that exact day. I thought the same thing.

              You are a bit too old to be believing in Unicorns….. you complete moron.

              03

            • #
              Greebo

              You do know the difference between Iran and Iraq, i hope.

              00

      • #
        Environment Skeptic

        Now we talk of vaporising populations like they were flies and we’ve got the only can of Mortein.

        Well said.

        11

  • #
    pat

    Google result says this was posted 1h ago:

    7 Jan: CBS: Over 1 billion animals feared dead in Australian wildfires
    by Sophie Lewis
    Last week, an ecologist at the University of Sydney estimated that nearly half a billion animals had been wiped out since Australia’s devastating wildfires started spreading in September. Now, he says that number has soared to over 800 million in New South Wales and over 1 billion nationally.

    “I think there’s nothing quite to compare with the devastation that’s going on over such a large area so quickly,” University of Sydney professor Chris Dickman told CBS News on Tuesday. “It’s a monstrous event in terms of geography and the number of individual animals affected.”
    The figure includes mammals (excluding bats), birds and reptiles.

    ***It does not include frogs, insects or other invertebrates…

    “We know that Australian biodiversity has been going down over the last several decades, and it’s probably fairly well known that Australia’s got the world’s highest rate of extinction for mammals,” he continued. “It’s events like this that may well hasten the extinction process for a range of other species. So, it’s a very sad time.”

    Nearly 20 million acres have burned across the country, and authorities say the fires could keep burning for months. At least 25 people have died and residents of entire towns have been forced to flee their homes.
    Dickman said that because Australia often sees the effects of climate change before other parts of the world, these fires could be a preview of what’s to come globally.

    The original estimate of 480 million animals killed int the fires was very conservative, Dickman said, and also included only the state of New South Wales. Since the fires have spread to other states, the number has escalated significantly.

    The World Wildlife Fund Australia echoed Dickman’s estimate. Based on his research, the wildlife conservation organization estimates around 1.25 billion animals have been killed directly or indirectly from the unprecedented fires…
    The organization said that many of the country’s forests will take decades to recover, and several species “may have tipped over the brink of extinction.”…

    The estimates are based on a 2007 report for WWF Australia. Researchers found that clearing around 1.6 million acres of forest would have resulted in the deaths of around 104 million native vertebrates through the loss of food and shelter.
    Dickman came to his estimate after about 7.4 million acres of land had burned in the bushfires. That number has more than doubled in the last week…

    While bushfires are common in Australia, this season’s “mega-fires” are far from normal, WWF Australia said, with climate change and extreme high temperatures exacerbating the intensity of the fires…
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/australia-fires-over-1-billion-animals-feared-dead/

    20

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      G’day Pat,
      I guess Dickman is right. If you take his “climate change” to really mean “the politics behind the climate change putsch” by Greenies it hangs together pretty well. After all they’ve corralled all those rare beasties into National Parks, fenced them in and built an ever larger and unstoppable bonfire all around them. And then I do wonder who’s done the lighting of some of those fires?? Members of the same mob?
      As to the numbers, who knows. But for his purposes the bigger the better. It’s a propaganda piece anyway. But not science.
      Cheers
      Dave B

      70

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      I’ve got nearly a quarter of a billion small animals living in my sinuses at the moment.

      Very uncomfortable and no doubt they are seeking refuge from the fires.

      I wish that global warming would stop.

      KK

      10

    • #
      WXcycles

      “We know that Australian biodiversity has been going down over the last several decades, and it’s probably fairly well known that Australia’s got the world’s highest rate of extinction for mammals,” he continued. “It’s events like this that may well hasten the extinction process for a range of other species. So, it’s a very sad time.”

      Wasn’t it just one Torres Strait rat-like critter that’s been confirmed to be made ‘extinct’ thus far?

      Such a loss that was, too.

      As far as I’m aware ‘Bio-diversity’ is a strongly seasonal and annual variable, not a one-way street to certain species doom. It goes up and it goes down – all the time. I’d have thought drought (a protracted lack of essential water) may be an issue in the area. But Willis recently showed there’s more green and rainfall during the past 50 years than in the many centuries prior.

      Yet the poor little sods can scarcely hang on in nearly ideal conditions and massive national parks?

      Quick, send more money, it’s an emergency!

      I’m a bit skeptical about all the unbridled opportunism on display. What occurs when a PM says “we’ll spend whatever it takes”, to “fix it”.

      40

    • #
      yarpos

      The 2009 bushfires decimated this area 10 years ago. Using my unscientific measure of roadkill wombat, roo,wallaby, deer, foxes, snakes, assorted parrots and echidna (how does anyone hit those things, they dont really spring out at you) people will be surprised how things spring back once regrowth starts.

      30

      • #
        Graeme#4

        Hard to avoid hitting a roo when it barrels out of thick roadside bush at high speed, straight across in front of you.

        40

        • #
          yarpos

          It was badly written Graeme, those words were for the slow waddling Echidna. Agree with your comment and have unfortunate practical experience. I was thinking of getting some of those ww2 fighter ace stencils for my door with animal profiles. My wife counselled against it.

          00

      • #
        Annie

        Almost 11 years now yarpos.
        Our place was full of previously unseen wildlife, welcome and unwelcome (rats and mice), straight after the fires, which came to within a few hundred metres of us. We never heard a currawong or saw king parrots before that. The road kill around here indicates huge numbers in the bush. An echidna down the road crosses the road regularly; it seems to survive. Years ago, there was one that frequently came from our neighbour across the road to graze around our veggie beds. Lots of worms, insects, etc., haven’t checked what the echidna’s favourite diet is! That one survived for a long time. Whether the present one is related I have no idea.

        30

  • #
    Another Ian

    “The Bush Fire” by Henry Lawson 1905.

    Someone forgot to tell Henry about “climate change”!

    “Never happened before eh”?

    A good reference to this with words is

    https://www.poemhunter.com/poem/the-bush-fire/

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    • #
      Bill In Oz

      The Bush Fire

      Henry Lawson, 1905

      Ah, better the thud of the deadly gun, and the crash of the bursting shell,
      Than the terrible silence where drought is fought out there in the western hell;
      And better the rattle of rifles near, or the thunder on deck at sea,
      Than the sound — most hellish of all to hear — of a fire where it should not be.

      On the runs to the west of the Dingo Scrubs there was drought, and ruin, and death,
      And the sandstorm came from the dread north-east with the blast of a furnace-breath;
      Till at last one day, at the fierce sunrise, a boundary-rider woke,
      And saw, in the place of the distant haze, a curtain of light blue smoke.

      There is saddling-up by the cockey’s hut, and out in the station yard,
      And away to the north, north-east, north-west, the bushmen are riding hard.
      The pickets are out and many a scout, and many a mulga wire,
      While Bill and Jim, with their faces grim, are riding to meet the fire.

      It roars for days in the hopeless scrubs, and across, where the ground seems bare,
      With a cackle and hiss, like the hissing of snakes, the fire is travelling there;
      Till at last, exhausted by sleeplessness, and the terrible toil and heat,
      The squatter is crying, ‘My God! the wool!’ and the farmer, ‘My God! the wheat!’

      But there comes a drunkard (who reels as he rides), with the news from the roadside pub: —
      ‘Pat Murphy — the cockey — cut off by the fire! — way back in the Dingo Scrub!’
      ‘Let the wheat and the woolshed go to — — ‘ Well, they do as each great heart bids;
      They are riding a race for the Dingo Scrub — for Pat and his wife and kids.

      And who is leading the race with death? An ill-matched three, you’ll allow;
      Flash Jim the breaker and Boozing Bill (who is riding steadily now),
      And Constable Dunn, of the Mounted Police, is riding between the two
      (He wants Flash Jim, but the job can wait till they get the Murphys through).

      As they strike the track through the blazing scrub, the trooper is heard to shout:
      ‘We’ll take them on to the Two-mile Tank, if we cannot bring them out!’
      A half-mile more, and the rest rein back, retreating, half-choked, halfblind;
      And the three are gone from the sight of men, and the bush fire roars behind.

      The Bushman wiped the tears of smoke, and like Bushmen wept and swore;
      ‘Poor Bill will be wanting his drink to-night as never he did before.
      ‘And Dunn was the best in the whole damned force!’ says a client of Dunn’s, with pride;
      I reckon he’ll serve his summons on Jim — when they get to the other side.

      It is daylight again, and the fire is past, and the black scrub silent and grim,
      Except for the blaze of an old dead tree, or the crash of a falling limb;
      And the Bushmen are riding again on the run, with hearts and with eyes that fill,
      To look for the bodies of Constable Dunn, Flash Jim, and Boozing Bill.

      They are found in the mud of the Two-mile Tank, where a fiend might scarce survive,
      But the Bushmen gather from words they hear that the bodies are much alive.
      There is Swearing Pat, with his grey beard singed, and his language of lurid hue,
      And his tough old wife, and his half-baked kids, and the three who dragged them through.

      Old Pat is deploring his burnt-out home, and his wife the climate warm;
      And Jim the loss of his favourite horse, and Dunn his uniform;
      And Boozing Bill, with a raging thirst, is cursing the Dingo Scrub —
      He’ll only ask for the loan of a flask and a lift to the nearest pub.

      Flash Jim the Breaker is lying low — blue-paper is after him,
      And Dunn, the trooper, is riding his rounds with a blind eye out for Jim,
      And Boozing Bill is fighting D.Ts. in the township of Sudden Jerk —
      When they’re wanted again in the Dingo Scrubs, they’ll be there to do the work.

      120

  • #
    pat

    novel length, full of it:

    7 Jan: CarbonBrief: Media reaction: Australia’s bushfires and climate change
    by Daisy Dunne, Josh Gabbatiss, Robert McSweeney
    The article is split into six sections…
    Dozens of people have been killed by the fires…

    In the video clip below, Prof Michael Mann – distinguished professor of atmospheric science at Penn State – explained to ABC News how natural fluctuations can add to the climate change signal…

    Despite the focus on the weather and climate change, in a press conference on 4 January, prime minister Scott Morrison said the “most constant issue that has been raised” with him during visits to fire damaged areas was “managing fuel loads in national parks”…
    But the “claim of a conspiracy by environmentalists to block hazard reduction activities has been roundly rejected by bushfire experts”, the (Guardian) article added. The Guardian ran a factcheck on this issue back in November, in which Prof Ross Bradstock, the director of the centre for environmental risk management of bushfires at the University of Wollongong, said: “These are very tired and very old conspiracy theories that get a run after most major fires. They’ve been extensively dealt with in many inquiries.”…

    The Sydney Morning Herald reported that New South Wales police has “taken legal action against 183 people so far this bushfire season, including charging 24 people with deliberately lighting bushfires”…

    A Brisbane Times piece reported that “103 of the destructive fires that had lashed Queensland since September were deliberately lit”. The police “had dealt with 98 people – 31 adults and 67 juveniles – for deliberately setting fires”, the outlet noted…

    Despite the media coverage of arson, it is not the main ignition source for fires, which – as ABC News and the Guardian noted – tends to be dry lightning strikes…

    Finally, Prof Katharine Hayhoe – a climate scientist at Texas Tech University – pointed out on Twitter, while arson is a factor, it should not be used to distract from the “threat multiplier” of climate change…

    On a slightly brighter(???) note, writing for ABC News, Professor Frank Jotzo from the Australian National University’s Centre for Climate and Energy Policy said this “national crisis” could be “the turning point for Australia’s climate change politics and policy that is so deeply in the ditch”…

    Other Murdoch-owned publications accused by the Guardian of not giving the fires due prominence were the Herald Sun, the Australian Daily Telegraph and the Courier-Mail.
    https://www.carbonbrief.org/media-reaction-australias-bushfires-and-climate-change

    30

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      “Finally, Prof Katharine Hayhoe – a climate scientist at Texas Tech University – pointed out on Twitter, while arson is a factor, it should not be used to distract from the “threat multiplier” of climate change…”

      Arson is a 1:1 ratio threat multiplier to people lives….whereas climate change being 100% imaginary is a 0:1 ratio multiplier effect.

      “Other Murdoch-owned publications accused by the Guardian of not giving the fires due prominence were the Herald Sun, the Australian Daily Telegraph and the Courier-Mail.”

      Oh….so they didn’t want to propagate the Biggest Lie ever told to humankind?

      I guess that’s their perogative….

      80

      • #
        David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

        Dunno about that threat multiplier thingo. I reckon that one lightning strike creating a fire of over 500,000 ha (Gospers Mountain, NSW, now) would suggest something bigger than she’s suggesting. Sorry, don’t have numbers to attempt to quantify her arson multiplier.
        The CO2 component – zero. The rest – fuel.
        Cheers
        Dave B

        70

        • #
          yarpos

          I reckon so called cultural burning is actually lightning

          20

          • #
            Greebo

            Well, it’s maybe what gave them the idea. Same with the North American “Indians”. They had to discover fire somehow. When they saw how it flushed game, and made pasture for larger game, they embraced it with gusto. Like Wyle E. Coyote, they waited with metaphoric knife and fork, albeit with more success than that misguided character.

            10

    • #
      Bill In Oz

      Yes Pat, FULL OF IT
      And it smells like Sh$t !

      10

  • #

    So then, where does the real power in Australia come from?

    The following shows the age of coal fired plants currently operational in Australia.

    New South Wales
    Bayswater – 35 years
    Eraring – 38 years
    Liddell – 49 years
    Mt. Piper – 27 years
    Vales Point – 42 years
    Average age NSW – 38.2 years

    Victoria
    Loy Yang A – 36 years
    Loy Yang B – 27 years
    Yallourn W – 47 years
    Average Age Vic – 36.7 years

    Queensland

    Callide B – 32 years
    Callide C – 19 years (SuperCritical)
    Gladstone – 44 years
    Kogan Creek – 13 years (SuperCritical)
    Millmerran – 18 years (SuperCritical)
    Stanwell – 27 years
    Tarong – 36 years
    Tarong North – 17 years (SuperCritical)
    Average age Qld – 25.75 years

    Average Age of all Australian Coal fired power plants – 31.7years

    Yesterday 7th January 2020, coal fired power delivered 75.8% of all the generated power across the day.
    Of the 48 coal fired Units in total, 44 of them were in operation with one Unit down in each of NSW (Liddell) and Victoria, (Loy Yang A) and two Units down in Queensland. (both at Gladstone)

    Those 44 Units delivered at their low point for the day 14917MW, and at that time, (3.55AM, the minimum, the Base Load for the day) that was 81.8% of total generated power. At their maximum for the day, (at 4.00PM, Peak Power for the day) they delivered 19542MW, and (even including rooftop solar which is only supplying those home with the panels) that coal fired component at that time was 68.5% of all generated power. Across the whole day, coal fired power supplied 75.8% of all generated power, at an average of 17512MW.

    That average is from the 44 operational Units, and that gave them an operational Capacity factor of 81.8%, and at their peak those 44 Units were operating at a Capacity Factor of 91.3%.

    In Victoria, the power delivery from coal fired power with one Unit out of action was a straight line across the day, unlike the other two States which ramp up and down across the day. Those nine Units in Victoria were operating at a Capacity factor of 102.75%.

    And people say coal fired power is inefficient, unreliable, and useless for task. 102.75% from nine Units with an average age of 37 years.

    Over the last seven days, wind power has had two good days, two bad days and three average days. The Capacity Factor across those seven days was a little above average, but because overall power consumption has been higher, then the percentage delivery from wind power (7.3% of all generated power for the week) has been lower. When wind was good, when wind was bad, when wind was average, coal fired power showed no change whatsoever, proving yet again, that wind power has zero effect on what coal fired power delivers. On a year round basis, coal fired power is delivering a tick under 70% of all the generated power ….. rooftop solar power included.

    When REAL power is needed, it only comes from one source. Take that away, and you have nothing.

    Coal fired power has many good years in front of it.

    Tony.

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    • #

      Facts, facts, facts. Truth, truth, truth. Reality, reality, reality.

      Is that all you can talk about?

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      • #

        I keep thinking to myself that surely there must be one journalist in the whole of Australia who would present these facts.

        Then his Editor to raise his eyebrows, look oddly at him, ask him if he has proof, and then be game enough to actually print the story.

        That journalist’s career would be made for the rest of his life.

        Tony.

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        • #
          PeterS

          There are a couple or so who do present at least some of the facts but they are drowned out by the screams coming from the Greens and the left leaning MSM ranging from slight to extreme left. I say again the only way Australia as a whole will wake up is to suffer a lot of pain through frequent blackouts.

          120

          • #
            robert rosicka

            Craig Kelly copped a bit of lefty flak for going on that pommie leftist snake pit show but all his claims haven’t been challenged by MSM .
            Instead they are going after him for calling a female weather presenter a female weather presenter .

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            • #
              Peter C

              Yes, I just watched the interview. I thought it was outrageous behaviour by both Piers Morgan and Laura Tobin.

              Laura Tobin did nothing except interrupt Craig Kelly and her contribution was hard to hear in any case.

              Craig Kelly should not have apologised. In my view the apology should be the other way around.

              It was very disappointing the Government Ministers are backing away from Craig’s statements, which do represent our government’s policy as far as I can make out.

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              • #
                glen Michel

                Apologies! i would have thought that Kelly had more in him.Disappointing. As for Littleproud and that Frydenberg they should stop appeasing greens.

                90

              • #
                PeterS

                It’s a very common trait in the LNP that they shrivel up when attacked or criticised. It’s pathetic and stupid. None of them have the ticker to go on the front foot. They act like cowards and perhaps most are.

                50

              • #
                Another Ian

                Time the LNP had a mandatory course with Sharyl Attkisson’s “The Smear” as the text.
                Showing how it works and how Trump has shown to create “Rules for Republicans”

                20

              • #
                Peter C

                Email to Liberal Members;
                Craig Kelly, Josh Fyrdenberg, David Littleproud:

                I just watched the interview. I thought it was outrageous behaviour by both Piers Morgan and Laura Tobin.
                Laura Tobin did nothing except interrupt Craig Kelly and her contribution was hard to hear in any case.
                Craig Kelly should not have apologised. In my view the apology should be the other way around.
                It was very disappointing the Government Ministers are backing away from Craig’s statements, which do represent our government’s policy as far as I can make out.

                If I am wrong here, please advise what our Climate and Fire Policy actually is?

                Yours Sincerely

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            • #
              John

              Yes it was very interesting that no one challenges Kelly’s claims, particular his claims about coal, but instead they focus on his “casual misogyny”.

              11

              • #
                AndyG55

                “no one challenges Kelly’s claims”

                That’s because Craig Kelly’s comments were grounded in FACT,

                … not religious based superstition.

                50

        • #
          BoyfromTottenham

          Hi Tony,
          A little O/T, but I watched the last episode of ‘Chernobyl’ the other night – the ‘trial’ of the three power station No.4 workers was a classic. The whole series is worth watching as an example of the manipulation of ‘truth’ by the Russian state, even when many thousands of lives were at stake. The official death toll is still…31!
          On a similar theme, I recently found a second hand copy of an interesting little book ‘The heart of a dog’ written by a dissident Russian author, Mikhail Bulgakov in 1925 but not published in the Soviet Union until 1987. It is a great satire on the Communist system, and very entertaining – no wonder it wasn’t published! Thank god the USSR is no more.

          50

          • #
            Greebo

            I might be preaching to the choir, and if so I aploogise, but Solzhenistyn’s The Gulag Archipelago, while not farce, is compelling reading.

            00

        • #
          jack

          Unfortunately Tony
          When it come to influence,
          the pervayors of Propaganda, spin and advertising,
          know all too well, that you sell a lot more cars with emotion and imagery,
          than with specification and facts.
          Advertising is a Multi-billion dollar industry based on this premise.
          Those with a political agenda would never use
          “Facts, facts, facts. Truth, truth, truth. Reality, reality, reality.”
          :
          I do like them, but I don’t think I’m the norm.

          50

        • #
          hatband

          That journalist’s career would be made for the rest of his life.

          Yeah, he’d be packing his desk up that afternoon and heading down to Centrelink.

          20

        • #
          Greebo

          What’s a journalist?? I thought they were extinct.

          10

      • #
        Greebo

        Predictable, isn’t he?

        00

    • #
      New Chum

      not sure if you have mentioned this before Tony but the team at Stanwell Corporation are.
      https://www.stanwell.com/story/our-team/

      10

    • #
      yarpos

      Interesting that the average still in operation life of coal plants is greater than the most optimistic expected life of any “renewable” techology.

      50

    • #
      liberator

      Aww c’mon Tony – we can shut all of these down tomorrow and we’ll be alright. The pixy dust and fairy farts will keep us running. If they don’t, then the ever magical batteries whose performance just keeps on getting better will be able to hold our hand when the sun stops shining, the winds stop blowing and the dams dry so no more water flowing.

      Batteries that will have such a HUGE carbon footprint just in their manufacture let alone the footprint of how much land space they will need as well.

      Yeah ok so coal polluting, as is most manufacturing whether you like it or not and solar panels, windmills and gigantic batteries need to be manufactured. I pointed out a Tedx talk by Michael Shellenberger – who was once pro magic has now said it’s pointless and we must consider nuclear.

      “In the effort to save the climate, are we destroying the environment?”

      20

  • #
    pat

    full-on MSM attack on hazard reduction arguments:

    ‘Public enemy number one’: RFS boss says firies can’t win hazard-reduction debate
    By Rani Hayman
    Posted about 2 hours ago | Updated about an hour ago

    changed to the following – “hazard reduction not the panacea” – but has a place, is a tool:

    VIDEO: 4m23s: 8 Jan: ABC: RFS Commissioner says hazard-reduction burns made his organisation ‘public enemy number one’
    By Rani Hayman
    Updated about an hour ago
    NSW Rural Fire Service (RFS) Commissioner Shane Fitzsimmons insists hazard reduction is an important element of fire prevention, but it’s not a panacea.
    “Let’s not forget, only a matter of months ago in New South Wales, we and the land management agencies, particularly national parks and forestry, we were public enemy number one because a byproduct of hazard reduction burning is smoke and yes, there’s a very significant health issue with smoke,” he said…

    The Commissioner has also defended fire management agencies saying claims by some politicians that “Greenies” have disrupted prescribed burning were not true.
    “We are not environmental bastards, we actually work through a sensible, environmental regime,” he said.
    “Our priorities are life, property and that environment ranks third.”…

    He said hazard reduction burns were being disrupted by changing weather conditions and longer fire seasons.
    He also said the burns did nothing to combat the massive “mega-fires” burning in NSW.
    “Hazard reduction burns that are only two years old, we’re seeing these fires on these bad days just skip straight through it,” he said.
    “We’re only seeing effective amelioration on fire spread through hazard reduction areas that have been done so in the last 12 months.”…

    NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian ***dismissed suggestions NSW had not conducted enough hazard reduction burns.
    “Our focus at the moment in NSW is on the recovery effort,” the Premier told ABC Radio Sydney.
    “I think everybody that has their own agenda to push should actually think about the people who we have to support at this time.”
    Ms Berejiklian promised her Government would review the state’s fire management strategies once the immediate crisis was over.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-08/nsw-fires-rfs-commissioner-weights-in-on-hazard-reduction-debate/11850862

    ***nothing in the Gladys quotes includes any dismissal!

    ABC spreads the story:

    VIDEO: 8 Jan: ABC: RFS Commissioner Shane Fitzsimmons says hazard reduction burns not the ‘panacea’
    Posted about 2 hours ago
    Mr Fitzsimmons says there needs to be favourable conditions for hazard reduction burns to be a valuable tool for bushfire management.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-08/rfs-commissioner-says-hazard-reduction-burns-not-the-panacea/11850984

    SMH on board:

    ABC VIDEO: 8 Jan: SMH: Hazard reduction burns are ‘not the panacea’: RFS boss
    By Sally Rawsthorne
    Commissioner Fitzsimmons said the agency had met its targets for hazard reduction in the lead-up to this bushfire season, but the “really awful” conditions across the drought-stricken state meant that fires had spread wildly regardless.
    “Hazard reduction burning is really challenging and the single biggest impediment to completing hazard reduction burning is the weather,” Commissioner Fitzsimmons told ABC Breakfast.

    “It’s only when the conditions back off a little bit that you actually have some prospect of slowing the fire spread.
    “It’s important, but not the panacea, and something we should have a very open and frank discussion about.”…
    “Resourcing is challenging. Don’t forget, as settled Australians, as Europeans, we are now living and working and occupying areas that used to burn freely,” Commissioner Fitzsimmons said…

    As Commissioner Fitzsimmons spoke to the ABC, Nationals MP Barnaby Joyce was on Sunrise and urged more hazard reduction burns…
    On Tuesday, Victoria’s Country Fire Authority’s chief officer Steve Warrington said there was a “fair amount of emotion” around hazard reduction.
    “The emotive argument is not supported that fuel reduction burning will fix all our problems,” he said.
    “Some of the hysteria that this will be the solution to all our problems is really just quite an emotional load of rubbish, to be honest.”
    https://www.smh.com.au/national/hazard-reduction-burns-are-not-the-panacea-rfs-boss-20200108-p53poq.html

    following, from a couple of minutes in to the end, screen showing: “Government under fire – It’s facing a sustained attack for its bushfire response”. David Koch: “so climate change has played a role”. Fitzsimmons: yes, no doubt. longer, hotter fire seasons, we were public enemy etc.

    VIDEO: 5m+: Facebook 7News: Shane Fitzsimmons dismisses Barnaby Joyce’s claim bushfires caused by ‘green caveats’
    NSW Rural Fire Service boss Shane Fitzsimmons has shot down Barnaby Joyce’s claim that ‘green caveats’ stopped his team from conducting hazard reduction burns, leading to the bushfire crisis.
    “Our biggest challenge with hazard reduction burning is the weather and the windows available to do it safely and effectively.”
    LINK 7News includes:
    Mr Fitzsimmons also said that climate change had contributed to the unprecedented number of blazes burning across Australia this season.
    “There’s no doubt that we see longer, hotter fire seasons, which correlate with shorter periods where you would typically get your safest period for burning,” he said.
    “As a society we’ve gotta to have a meaningful argument about what it mean to hazard reduce and manage risk.”
    https://www.facebook.com/7NewsAustralia/videos/3164555456891187/

    40

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      To be at the top, it appears you have to sign on to the Establishments hymn sheet for the climate religion.

      As the next Census, will “Climate Change” be included as a legit religion? It should be, but perhaps also be a banned political movement ( well its not scientific..thats for sure )…..

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    • #
      pat

      should have noted Fitzsimmons replies to ABC are not exactly clear. needs to be listened to carefully. were targets met? why talk of hazard reduction during present bushfires, as I think he does at one point?

      30

    • #
      Graeme Bird

      If we were to find a fire chief that thinks shutting down hydro-carbon energy is more effective than pre-emptive burning, land hydration and planned grazing, we would simply have to sack him and get someone else who could do the job.

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    • #
      Another Ian

      Pat

      R.V. Jones “Most Secret War” P 32

      “He warned us that if another war broke out there would be a disastrous period for six months while those who had reached high positions on inadequate abilities in peacetime would have to be replaced”

      60

  • #
    Bob-l

    Sorry folks and Jo, since I seem to be irretrievably marked for moderation I’ve created a sock puppet to use until Jo can figure out what’s wrong.

    Jo maybe you can delete the other identity completely then I can recreate it from scratch.

    I note that the government is STILL not refuting the extremism to protect kids mental health so I repeat my call to all politicians.

    Australian Children are believing the extremist nonsense and are being exploited by extinction rebellion and the union movement (the union movement is running the kiddie protests). Some of them truly believe in the 2030 extinction date and other nonsense like famine, the fires being a climate change manifestation and mass extinction some actually are following Greta who knows nothing about climate and to my knowledge has not yet said anything that’s actually true about global warming even if it were happening. They are hurting badly.

    THE GOVERNMENT MUST REFUTE THIS NONSENSE AND PREVENT SCHOOLS AND NGO ORGANISATIONS FROM TERRIFYING CHILDREN – NOW.

    Time to ante up ScoMo, our children come first! Far ahead of UN computerised crystal ball gazing.

    100

  • #
    jack

    I think we need a change in collective nouns for some Australian animals.
    :
    How about a Parliament of Galahs.
    Or a senate of snakes.
    A caucus of crocodiles.
    A ministry of Midges.

    60

    • #
      PeterS

      Why be so soft? The CAGW alarmists are simply a bunch of treacherous anarchists.

      40

    • #
      beowulf

      I think a “char” covers all categories of wildlife at present.

      30

      • #
        Greg in NZ

        A salinger of climate scientists?

        “University of Tasmania research associate and former NIWA climate scientist Jim Salinger, said warmer years were becoming more frequent as the Earth continued to experience the effects of greenhouse gas emissions”. Yeah nah – just another dribbling ex-spurt on the make.

        https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/406820/the-places-in-new-zealand-for-which-2019-was-the-warmest-year-on-record

        He dribbled: “the Chatham Islands… Dunedin, Rotorua and Invercargill all had record years”, which, I’m sure, most people living in those (cold bleak) places would be ecstatic about!

        “Invercargill was one degree above it’s [sic] average temperature of 8.9 degrees”. Woohoo! No wonder the Rolling Stones called it ‘the a**hole of the world’ when they toured there in the early 1960s.

        Mayor Tim Shadbolt said, “people aren’t too worried about global warming here or anything like that, it’s not a hot issue”. On ya, Tim!

        “But Salinger said there was no disputing the earth is heating…”

        Definitely a salinger of climate scientists!

        30

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          Has anyone seen the 2019 temperature from the WMO?
          I think they are claiming that 2019 was the second or third warmest year on record. (They were founded in 1950 as a subsidiary of the UN).
          Yet they did say that 2017 was cooler than the previous year, and 2018 was cooler than 2017.

          Hard to see a warming trend for the Earth there, 2 cooling years followed by a year COOLER than a previous one.

          Try Tony Heller on real climate science.

          20

          • #
            Greg in NZ

            Jim-jim Salinger is renowned for picking cherries: note the article stipulated “places in New Zealand”, not NZ as a whole.

            Our temp gatekeepers, NIWA, have even conceded 1998 and 2016 were the high points – thanks to El Nino supremos – yet otherwise it’s been very pause-like to downhill.

            Tony Heller rocks! Long may he roll!

            00

  • #
    Deplorable Lord Kek

    I can say I have first hand experience of green policy in relation to bush vegetation.

    Near me is a local primary school called “The Bush School”.

    About 30-35 years ago they designated it a ‘bush regeneration area’.

    No one is allowed to touch anything growing in these sanctified grounds.

    Privet and other weeds all run rampant.

    No one is allowed to walk through ‘the bush’ lest the native flora and fauna come to harm.

    No one can pick up a stick or clear anything from the ground.

    Needless to say it is a fire trap.

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    • #

      … Like the annexing of the common land by William the Conqueror into the Royal Forest. Up to 1/3 of England set aside for the king’s pleasure, harsh punishment for gathering firewood or shooting one of the ‘king’s'deer. We need a Robin Hood revolt to bring in a citizens’ Forest Charter like they did under Henry 3rd. Out with covert UN Agenda 21 land ‘management’ charters operating in Oz!

      60

    • #
      Deplorable Lord Kek

      The sign out the front (which is difficult to read because it is surrounded by overgrown foliage) reads:

      “THIS IS A REGENERATION AREA
      PLEASE
      KEEP TO MADE PATHS
      DO NOT REMOVE GROUND COVER OF ANY SORT
      LEAVE ALL TIMBER WHERE IT LIES.
      SOIL EROSION KILLS THE EARTH.”

      That sign would be c1985.

      It looks like the surrounding bush has not been touched since.

      70

  • #
    Mark D.

    I would like to comment on the upcoming demise of one Peter Fitzgerald. Over many years of observation, I have seen the rise and eventual implosion of many warmist trolls. Maybe there are “hard trolls” (they blow up quickly) but I think there are also “soft trolls” whereby they almost put up with us deplorable deniers. Almost. Eventually their soft trolling becomes unbearable to their true troll self and they cannot help but become full on trolls or they explode.

    Peter Fitzgerald is about to explode. His comments are already shrill and getting worse.

    It will end soon enough with a final death rattle and one final scathing, screaming explosion.

    All this based on years of previous observation.

    Farewell Peter

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    • #
      robert rosicka

      Peter is his own worst enemy – that and his links which usually embarrass him .
      We do need to hear the other side of the argument though as censorship is what they do .

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    • #
      Analitik

      Fitzgerald or Fitzroy?

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      • #
        Mark D.

        Oh yes Fitzroy not the shipwreck.

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        • #

          Okay then, speaking of shipwrecks, I recently watched a movie called The Finest Hours, based around a true story of the U.S. Coast Guard’s most daring rescues.

          Now, as you do, well, as I do, anyway, once I see a movie like this, I like to chase up the whole story.

          A small rescue boat was sent out (and some thought it a suicide mission) to try and locate one of the sections of a medium sized oil tanker that had split in half, the SS Pendleton.

          In the same area, and during the same storm, the same Coast Guard Unit was also involved in the rescue of a sister ship to the Pendleton, the SS Fort Mercer, which had also split in half.

          Evidently, this class of tanker was actually quite prone to splitting in half. (What?)

          Anyway, the Fort Mercer rescue was done by a bigger crew than the small Pendleton rescue, so there as more emphasis on that rescue, and the smaller rescue craft only manned by four inexperienced crew was forgotten. The young Bosun on the smaller rescue craft performed an amazing feat in huge swells, up to 20 Metres, and in the dark and in a Force 9 storm. The crew of the stern section of the Pendleton lowered themselves on a rope ladder as the rescue craft motored up the incoming wave to time it so that he reached the bottom of the ladder at the top of the wave as it crashed into the side of the ship, and the crew member ‘jumped’ aboard the rescue craft. hard to imagine really. Anyway he did this task 32 times in all, and they only lost one crew member. So now, this tiny rescue craft hopelessly overloaded with all the ship’s rescued crew on top of the decks, steamed slowly back through the storm, across the Bar and back to the wharf, much to the astonished amazement of everyone.

          The movie story just seemed so implausible that I had to go and check to see how accurate it was, and it was basically true scene by scene really

          Okay, that’s the story.

          The fact that these tankers were actually prone to splitting in half was enough in itself, but the other ship in this rescue, the Fort Mercer, well, the Bow half sank and the stern was salvaged.

          Fair enough I suppose, but hey, they, umm, just welded on a new front for the tanker and she resumed operations as the SS San Jacinto.

          And hey, what astonishing bad luck. That tanker also broke in two, and again, they salvaged the Stern.

          So, they, umm, welded on a new front, rechristened it as the SS Pasadena, and it then resumed operations.

          And finally, in 1983, the Pasadena was basically salvaged and broken up.

          Gives a whole new meaning to that old comedy sketch by Clarke and Dawe, titled ‘The Front Fell Off’.

          Incidentally, it was good movie, not too over the top, and it was odd to see Eric Bana as a bit of a villain, the Coast Guard Commander who sent that crew out in a tiny boat across a notorious bar in a monster storm, when the bar was virtually impassable in fine weather.

          Wikipedia SS Pendleton, and SS Fort Mercer. Amazing yarn.

          Tony.

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            Mark D.

            Thanks Tony I’ll look those stories up.

            One day if you are interested we can talk a bit about the Edmund Fitzgerald. They set out after loading Iron ore (in the form of Taconite pellets) at a dock in my home town. I had a high school classmate who’s father perished when she went down. That fairly much made life unbearable for his mother and was nearly ruinous to all of them including my friends siblings.

            Like many folk I have a pretty strong opinion about what happened to the Edmund Fitzgerald during that wicked storm.

            There are other shipwreck stories on the Great Lakes with sometimes super human rescues. I suppose it’s the same all around the oceans too but there is something about these inland seas that I find just a bit special (they are just lakes after all). There is a really well researched book titled: Julius F. Wolff Jr’s Lake Superior Shipwrecks that you might be able to find: ISBN 0-942235-02-9 Written 1990
            I speculate that you’d read it cover to cover.

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            • #

              Mark D.

              I learned all about the Edmund Fitzgerald after the Gordon Lightfoot song came out in 1976. I purchased his album, Summertime Dream for that one song alone, and as was the case with most album purchases I made, other songs on the album were just as good if not better, and I like all ten songs on the album, a rarity, and it is in fact ‘one’ of my favourite albums, of the 350 or so vinyl LPs I have.

              The story of the ‘wreck’ was an interesting one indeed, and while the song is pretty much self explanatory, there were a lot of other details, some I didn’t find out till many years later.

              I located a good site, Great Lakes Shipwreck Museum which has a good run down on the fateful voyage, and the following freighter the Anderson kept in contact with the Fitz. Captain Cooper on the Anderson thought McSorely passed too close to the Six Fathom Shoal to the North of Caribou island, and Cooper actually thought McSorely might have known he had damaged his ship at that time. Then there’s the two ‘sneakers’ which washed over the Anderson and then continued down the Lake and Cooper on the Anderson thought they were maybe the ones which got the Fitz.

              (See the article at this link)

              They’re never going to really know though.

              Amazing story.

              My girlfriend at the time, made me learn the song on guitar. Took a while, and luckily the chords were easy, just learning the text for all the verses was a bit of a task. Then she threw me in the deep end, telling a crowd at a party that I knew the song. I was petrified playing it, but it was absolutely an eerie feeling playing to a hushed and attentive crowd. It heightens the adrenaline rush, which actually aided in the concentration to remember the words.

              Tony.

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              • #
                Greg in NZ

                Tony, ‘eerie’ is the word.

                Whenever I heard Gordon Lightfoot’s epic on the radio (1970s) I’d stop what I was doing, turn up the volume, and be transported to another time & place: evocative, mysterious, eerie… that soaring, haunting guitar may have had something to do with it (and the lyrics).

                Recently, Graeme Hill – radio host and ex-Able Tasmans band member – had a show on shipwrecks around the world. Historian John McCrystal would recount well-researched material on numerous mishaps and accidents on the high seas – and lakes. Each show would begin, and end, with the song, Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald. It was a regular, late Sunday night listen for me.

                Not sure if I’ve got the full or correct address below, but not hard to find if I’ve got it wrong:

                https://www.magic.co.nz/home/archivedtalk/audio/special-feature-archives/shipwreck-tales-with-john-mccrystal-edmund-fitzgerald

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                Mark D.

                Tony I don’t own that album but I always thought Gordon L. was a great talent. The “wreck” probably made his financial career. The music is haunting and even though I heard it probably 1,000,000 times back in the 70′s it still brings a chill and a tear when I hear it even today. If you learned that tune I’m sure your audience was captivated.

                The Edmund Fitz was built in the late 50′s. She had see a long career and in many opinions was worn. She was of welded steel layup and there are many observers that knew of cracked welds. Coupled with the likelihood that she was loaded heavier than she should have been on that trip and probably was operated overloaded much of her life, she was weakened. Captain McSorely reportedly drove his ship hard. It seems he liked breaking shipping records and keeping her owners happy with season hauling totals.

                Recall too, that these craft were not compartmentalized. The taconite load was like a 600 foot long pile of marbles in a fabricated steel tube. the load could and would shift in the hold if the boat was subject to severe attitude changes. Her deck edges were protected with a welded steel cable railing like a very heavy barbed wire fence. Captain McSorely reported that these railings were down. That would take a great deal of force. He also reported a list to one side and that all pumps were operating full. There is no doubt the hull integrity had been compromised.

                Now here is where describing what could have happened gets surreal: If she had a lot of water mixed in with the cargo this water would surge and flow as the ship rose and fell on the waves. We know from reports of the Anderson, that huge waves were rolling over the deck. The Fitz needed all her buoyancy to pop up and back out of these waves each time but she was waterlogged. Her pilot/wheelhouse was on the bow those present would have know as blue water engulfed the pilot house windows. As her now probably broken hull was alternately lifted at each end by the spacing of these huge waves she broke into two. This may have been at the surface but I imagine she made a final nose into a wave and became submarine or torpedo. The forward momentum driving her deeper, water pressure forces rapidly filling the pilothouse and forward compartments. The now oddly supported craft snapped into two. Imagine, she was 729 feet in length and she lays in 530 feet water depth. If standing vertical she could have had her bow on the bottom and still had 200 feet of stern above the surface. Obviously the mechanical forces of such an orientation would be unsustainable. Of course we find her on the bottom in two pieces with her cargo strewn all around. We can surmise that it happened very fast and perhaps very violently. No one on board would have wanted to be topsides and apparently none had time to escape the horror at any point. for crew on board the rapid decent to 500 + feet (about 33 atmospheres) would in itself be un-survivable even if you were in a trapped air pocket. If you held your breath your lungs would have been squashed flat.

                Not at all pleasant to ponder.

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              • #
                Bushkid

                One of my favourite albums too, Tony. My late husband also played guitar, and yes, “The Wreck of The Edmund Fitzgerald” was one he play, and played well.

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          Kalm Keith

          There’s nothing wrong with Edmund for a name.

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    Zane

    Funding for training of indigenous rangers to do traditional cultural burning for hazard reduction is being mooted. I can see this idea causing great angst in the green camp. On the one hand, indigenous is good. On the other, any burning of native bushland is habitat-destroyingly bad and releases that evil CO2. Greens will need to book a session with a psychiatrist to internalize and reconcile these opposing concepts. Then they will march for ” climate justice ” – whatever that is. Someone must sit around Global Green HQ in London or wherever coming up with these new buzzwords and media-friendly soundbite phrases.

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      pat

      Zane –

      this piece is out-of-character for theirABC. there have been terrible situations in other remote communities which ABC has totally ignored in the past. are we seeing the start of a smear campaign against indigienous people over hazard reduction? it wouldn’t surprise me:

      8 Jan: ABC: Kapani Warrior army veterans shelter displaced Aurukun residents fleeing violence, firebombings
      ABC Far North By Sharnie Kim and staff
      ‘This is unprecedented’…
      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-08/army-veterans-run-bush-camp-for-displaced-aurukun-residents/11849174

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      Bob-l

      Criminal justice, don’t make me laugh! Alarmists have caused:
      Grannies dying from winter cold and not able to afford heating.
      Indigenous families killed or communities decimated to make way for carbon credit earning forestry
      People died of hunger as corn that used to be food aid was diverted to making ethanol
      Poor people die of diseases due to the interior burning of wood or dung while the greeny world bank refuse to build then coal fired electricity generators
      Killing of raptors and bats by CSP and wind generators.
      People killed by windmill initiated bush fires, or one by a falling prop. Several solar installers killed by Kevin’s insulation and Solar push.
      Thousands die because governments have diverted funds from medicine into useless climate SOPs.

      The alarmists ARE the climate criminals.

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    robert rosicka

    Uni students are planning an anti Scomo and climate emergency protest in Melbourne on Friday , police have asked them to postpone because of being stretched and the expected fire rating that day but no dice .

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-08/bushfire-protests-planned-melbourne-a-resource-drain-say-police/11851626

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    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      I think they should all be charged with interfering with Police in the performance of their duty during a State emergency, and given the maximum penalty, after being removed immediately and forcibly.
      Cheers
      Dave B

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    nb

    A chronology of major bushfires in Victoria, Australia, from 2013 back to 1851:
    https://www.ffm.vic.gov.au/history-and-incidents/past-bushfires

    For example, in 1851 one quarter of Victoria burned (50,000 km2 burned, or 5 million hectares). Victoria is 228,000 km2.
    (1 hectare = 2.5 acres)

    Fires with a million or more hectares damage, in Victoria only:
    2003: 1.3 million hectares
    1944: 1 million hectares
    1939: 1.5 to 2 million hectares

    For the bushfires in 1906, from 23 Jan onwards, details of which are lacking in the above article, see the article with headline
    ‘Melbourne 110 In The Shade
    Highest Record Since 1882. ‘
    Mildura 121 In The Shade.’ at https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/196312335/18539255
    on the page at
    https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/page/18539255
    and read through the following pages of this date and subsequent four or five days for details of the fires, though no overall summary is provided.

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    Scott

    Could you imagine Australia in 2030 in a similar bush fire scenario, if Labour had won the last federal election.

    50% of new cars to be electric by 2030…..

    trying to evacuate large populations in electric vehicles each requiring extended time to recharge at around the same time.

    The fuel lines were long enough, however time to fill significantly less and range a lot further with an ICE vehicle.

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    • #
      OriginalSteve

      I predict all emergency vehicles will still be diesel…..that want vehicles that can be relied upon….

      Trucks that break down in the fire often lose brakes, not engines

      20

      • #
        Scott

        Steve its more about the masses of people trying to evacuate rather than the emergency vehicles themselves.

        We saw a recent example in California with people lined up trying to charge their EV’s getting from San Fran to LA after thanksgiving and that was just trying to get home, not an emergency.

        Although the the firetrucks would have their own issues partly the same trying to charge, range when out in the bush, deterioration of the batteries in extreme heat.

        “Most lithium-ion (Li-ion) cells must not be charged above 45°C or discharged above 60°C. These limits can be pushed a bit higher, but at the expense of cycle life. In the worst case, if cell temperatures get too high, venting may occur, resulting in battery failure or even a cell fire”

        I suppose you could import the petroleum fuels you need, but economies of scale would stop them being manufactured here.

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    beowulf

    Three great articles on the bushfires from Quadrant:

    Analysis and Prophecy as Autopsy

    In Quadrant‘s July 2009 edition, Ray Evans (above) wrote of the green left’s infiltration and capture of Australia’s environmental movement and one of its dire consequences: the Black Saturday fires which ravaged Victoria and claimed 173 lives in the space of an afternoon.

    https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/doomed-planet/2020/01/analysis-and-prophecy-as-autopsy/

    The Fire Experts from Central Casting by Vic Jurskis

    . . . It noted that local knowledge and experience is being ignored by an increasingly top-heavy emergency bureaucracy.

    Fire ecologists such as Professor Ross Bradstock argue that megafires are natural, and are not reducing biodiversity. Indeed, they claim that high intensity wildfires can increase biodiversity! Bradstock took over from Whelan at Wollongong.

    There is a photo of a “biologically diversified” wombat as evidence of how well that works. He’s been diversified out of existence.

    https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/doomed-planet/2020/01/fire-experts-from-central-casting/

    Good For You, Craig Kelly

    https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/doomed-planet/2020/01/good-for-you-craig-kelly/

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    • #
      nb

      I was told of this takeover at the time, during the 1990s, by a member of the Greens who had left sympathies. Not so much a takeover by the ‘green left’, more as a takeover of the greens by communists who had no real interest in green issues.

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    Zane

    Daniel Andrews and the Emergency Services and fire chief honchos in Victoria are saying these fires are going to be the new normal. It’s on camera. I take this to mean the green agenda which keeps Labor in office will continue, there will be little change to current policy settings, there will be more renewables, not much additional controlled burning or hazard reduction, and people just have to get used to it. And vote Andrews in again. So far, it appears to be working. The fix is in.

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      GD

      there will be more renewables, not much additional controlled burning or hazard reduction, and people just have to get used to it

      And more people will die. Thanks, Daniel Andrews.

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      yarpos

      Andrews is getting lauded but eberything he has done is reactive not protective. Any system or organisation that needs heros coming to the rescue is dysfunctional.

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    pat

    following has one purpose only – to debunk exaggerated interpretations of arson figures, with an added one-line mention for: “An article posted by an American far-right figure went one step further, claiming left-wing ecoterrorists were responsible for lighting the blazes”.
    why the mention of “celebrities” – which might have indicated “far-left” individuals – I can’t tell, because I see no mention of any in the piece:

    8 Jan: ABC: Fires misinformation being spread through social media
    By Kevin Nguyen and Ariel Bogle
    Updated about an hour ago
    Australia’s bushfire emergency is being exploited on social media, as misinformation is spread through cyberspace via hundreds of thousands of posts.
    Out-of-date photos of survivors and inaccurate fire maps have been widely shared, including by international celebrities…

    Queensland University of Technology (QUT) researcher Dr Timothy Graham analysed a sample 315 accounts posting #ArsonEmergency and said around a third of them displayed highly automated and inauthentic behaviour…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-08/fires-misinformation-being-spread-through-social-media/11846434

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  • #

    So we see the price of oil has jumped, no need to ask why…

    We know that dam levels aren’t great…

    And we know that fuel loads in the bush are through the roof while much of the country is in drought…

    With tensions as they are in the China Sea and Gulf (right now Indonesia-China, Iran-US), why are we blundering in to greater oil/gas dependence? Why is the harvesting of water in a chronically dry continent (at least since 1788!) controversial? What do we expect to happen with high fuel loads?

    As to the matter of war…

    When the allies wanted to wipe out Dresden they did a lot of damage then waited for emergency services to arrive from all over the region before unleashing the worst. I’ve often thought that a way to attack Australia would be to cause fires in just a few regions, wait for services to cluster then attack those services. Even without such a plan a shrewd enemy could attack Australia with a box of matches.

    We must harvest more water. We must reduce fuel loads and open the bush to human activity and monitoring. We must restrict our dependence on diesel to transport and special needs. And we must, must, must shift back to a coal economy. In limited war this would at least give us a few options and chances.

    Remember, if just a couple of straits get blocked it may not be a matter of affording oil. You may not get any oil.

    Fortunately, what’s best in war is best in peace time for Australia. Stewardship, thrift and coal are what’s best for us.

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      beowulf

      It’s OK. Last year brains-trust Marise Payne stated that we would meet our emergency fuel stockpile needs by 2030. The same stockpile we should have already had for 20 years. We have an army, a navy and an air force and no fuel to operate them beyond a few days, to say nothing of civilian needs.

      Then they say we will ask the US for access to their stockpile, except we don’t have enough tankers and they would have to cross thousands of miles of hostile ocean to get it here in time of war.

      All we need to do is cross our fingers now.

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      • #
        Another Ian

        Chiefio had a look at this and pointed out a whole heap of things that run across the grain of oil transporting etc.

        I don’t have a link atm

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  • #
    jack

    Golden Globes 2020 Host Ricky Gervais tells it as it is.
    “So if you do win an award tonight, don’t use your platform to make a political speech. You’re in no position to lecture the public about anything. You know nothing about the real world. Most of you spent less time in school than Greta Thunberg. So if you win, come up, accept your little award, thank your agent and your god and f— off.”

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  • #
    epsck

    There have been a number of record high temperatures in the south east of Australia lately but in the centre of Australia where the heat is generated there have been none.

    Where are the 51 and 52 degree temp readings? There are none. According to BOM Climate Data Online the last time any BOM weather station exceeded 50 degrees C was 50.5 at Mardie WA over 20 years ago.

    This indicates that the heat in the south east is caused by weather patterns transferring more heat than usual and not any overall increase in temperature.

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    nb

    An expanded version of my post above:
    A chronology of major bushfires in Victoria, Australia, from 1851 to 2013:
    https://www.ffm.vic.gov.au/history-and-incidents/past-bushfires

    In 1851 one quarter of Victoria, 50,000 km2 or 5 million hectares, burned. (1 hectare = 2.5 acres.) Victoria is 228,000 km2.
    Fires with a million or more hectares damage, in Victoria only:
    2003: 1.3 million hectares
    1944: 1 million hectares
    1939: 1.5 to 2 million hectares
    1906: Possibly. See below.
    1851: 5 million hectares

    For the bushfires in 1906, from 23 Jan onwards, details of which are lacking in the above article, see the article with headline:
    ‘Melbourne 110 In The Shade
    Highest Record Since 1882. ‘
    Mildura 121 In The Shade.’ at https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/196312335/18539255
    on the page at
    https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/page/18539255
    and read through the following pages of this date and subsequent four or five days for details of the fires. It is interesting reading, but no overall summary is provided.
    For example, a story about the fires at https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/14752788 for 26 Jan, 1906

    See also Tony Heller, Eighty Years of Climate Change https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMrV9qnmeeg

    For the document used by Heller for the 1906 fires see ‘Victoria’s Highest Temperature on Record, 123.5°F (50.8°C), At Mildura On 6 January 1906 – But Is It Valid?’ by Harvey Stern, John Cornall-Reilly, Patrizia McBride1, and Adrian Fitzgerald, Bureau of Meteorology, Australia, La Trobe University, Australia at https://ams.confex.com/ams/pdfpapers/155748.pdf. This paper includes:
    ‘The next day, referred to as “Black Tuesday, January 23, 1906, so-named because on that day almost the whole of the State (of Victoria) was ablaze” (source: A brief history – South Gippsland Mount ‘A” (Mount Best) 1892-1982 by Alf Lonsdale)’.

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  • #
    George4

    Ukrainian Airlines Boeing 737 with 170 aboard crashes in Tehran hours after Iran’s attack on US bases – sparking speculation it has been accidentally shot down as video shows plane in flames BEFORE hitting ground

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7863359/Ukrainian-passenger-plane-carrying-180-people-crashes-near-Tehran-local-media.html?ico=pushly-notifcation-small

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  • #
    Peter C

    Stewardship, thrift and coal are what’s best for us.

    If we build Coal to Oil processing plants we could be self sufficient in Liquid fuels! The process is a bit inefficient but well established.

    I don’t know why we are not doing it already.

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    • #
      George4

      It would be good for our nation’s security to produce our own oil and refine it.
      Australia is currently dependent on imports for more than 90% of its fuel needs.
      The crude oil comes from the Middle East and is processed at refineries in South Korea, China and Singapore.
      It is then shipped to Australia as diesel, aviation fuel and petrol.

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Peter C:

      Coal to oil (Fischer-Tropf) has been running in South Africa for many years. It may well be possible to up-grade it. There are proven related methods of generating a number of chemicals, using mostly brown coal.
      With the aid of cheap electricity it is possible to generate acetylene from black coal.

      There is also the natural gas to petrol (via methanol) by Mobil but not adopted in NZ because of economics.

      And there is the ludicrous Federal Govt. funded SCHEME to produce hydrogen from brown coal (for Japan).

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      • #
        Graeme Bird

        I’d like to see a similar process with Thorium energy adding heat and electrical energy to the coal. Some people say that the coal contains fissionable materials that amount to 13 times the energy of the coal itself. Its a crying shame that we have to burn it all without upgrading it first.

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        • #
          Graeme No.3

          To use those fissionable elements it would be necessary to extract and concentrate them. Not really practical. However using heat to reduce the water content (particularly in brown coal) produces spectacular improvements in the energy available, hence higher efficiency (and lower CO2 for each MWh). Typically we could reduce CO2 emissions from brown coal in Victoria from 1250-1300kg per MWh to 800kg per MWh.
          The Greens aren’t interested in such a reduction, they would rather be smug in a blackout.

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            Peter C

            Whatever the process, we need to proceed now. The Science (on the Coal to Liquid Fuel process) is settled.

            Please ScoMo and Ministers, ACT NOW. Coal to Liquid Fuel Plant in Two Years!

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          • #
            Graeme Bird

            Might not a technology emerge that would allow us to filter out such material after liquifying the coal? There really isn’t a limit to how many hydrogen atoms you can attach to the coal under oxygen free heat and electrical manipulation is there? I think we should start setting up this technology. If not for commercial use, at least for storage of high-grade diesel. We need a strategic fuel reserve and we need that technology for the long term. But to get the heat from the coal itself, for the process, does seem a bit of a waste when the thorium is the resource that is basically infinite.

            Yeah I like this idea of nuclear heat preparing the brown coal and then sending it off to a new generation of coal burners. Sweet.

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            • #
              Graeme No.3

              Graeme Bird:

              Adding hydrogen to coal requires energy, usually as heat. How would you transfer the heat from the reactor to the coal, as most reactors generate steam but at too low a temperature (500℃) for the reaction which is usually run at 750-1200℃. Besides brown coal (and a lot of black) contains water anyway, and that is used as a source of hydrogen.**
              Economics suggest that brown coal should be the feedstock and there is a proven technology to turn it into diesel (or other chemicals). I just wonder if it has been improved in the last 50 years since South Africa started using it?
              As for using thorium, yes, it is already in use as a partial fuel in several existing nuclear processes.
              And I have heard that the British have a coal to liquid fuel process developed that may break even around $70 a barrel, but are keeping it secret. They don’t want Chinese hackers to know. And don’t forget the burnable liquids in that oil shale that we aren’t allowed to use.

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              • #
                Graeme Bird

                Dude you’d have the nuclear heat running at about 600 degrees.. Nearby you’d have a reactor creating electricity at that sort of temperature. Another system you’d have going would be creation too much hydrogen. My problem is taken 3 parts coal to create 1 part diesel. My idea is to keep adding chemical energy.

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          • #

            In the 1970s VW did a study on coal to fuel using nuclear process heat. They chose methanol as the target fuel (it is eadily turned to gasoline using the Mobile zeolite catalyst method too). In the 1980s, California had 3 way flex fuel cars for sale. Any combo of gasoline, ethanol, or methanol. Several makers, including VW and Dodge. Fuel cost was about 50 ¢ per gallon of gasoline equivalent. About &2.50 in current dollars. Very affordable.

            All this and more is off the shelf technology. Only thing that shut it down was cheap oil.

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      Graeme#4

      Sorry Peter, but I don’t see the point of this, given that Australia has more than sufficient sources of gas that could be easily extracted and used for relatively cheap energy. WA already derives 40% of its energy from gas and still manages to maintain 24/7 reliable energy at a domestic price of 26c/unit. The U.S. Is now using more gas while maintaining its domestic energy average price around AUD 17c/unit.

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  • #
    robert rosicka

    Listening to RAF Epstein just chastise a caller for saying protesters stop fuel reduction burning and he is from the abc .
    Time to defund and disband this terrorist organisation.

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    WXcycles

    Indications are USA are going to have a much colder phase during the 3rd week of Jan. Widespread -15 F to -35 F temps begin to set in after the 14th of Jan, for at least 4 days. it’s a windy week, two major storms, all forms of precipitation, 40 cm to 70 cm of snow over large areas, 80 mm of rain over the eastern half. What fun!

    Western and eastern Europe remain relatively mild.

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    Another Ian

    For the record

    Burt Rutan on global warming (pdf) link here

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/01/07/rutan-lovelock-branson/#comment-2888354

    Read the rest too

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    Dennis

    Bushfires and Victoria High Country cattle grazing country, the huts the cattle grazing families lived in;

    https://hutsvictoria.org.au/the-huts/

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    Greebo

    ScoMo is apparently flagging a Royal Commission into these bushfires,,,,,,,,,,,,, Is he SERIOUS?????? We have had RCs into every fire ever for 100 years, and nobody has paid one jot of attention to the findings of ANY of them. I don’t pretend to be expert, but I have perused a number of those RC findings, and I think we have lost,

    Politicians of any stripe are morons,

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    Graeme Bird

    I trust your judgement. Its hard to reconstruct it all since the links are censored over time. The main point is that poor people aren’t supermen but they can be hired on the cheap. So you cannot get a buch of unassisted poor people, with no allies and diplomacy from hell, to capture land from the combined worlds armed forces. These days the kind of fantasies we are being sold are way over the top.

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    Environment Skeptic

    Yep!

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    Environment Skeptic

    Yep 2 : )

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    Environment Skeptic

    Yep. In response to Graeme Bird
    January 9, 2020 at 2:54 pm

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    Graeme Bird

    Very kind of you. Now how could we ever get on the wrong side of our Russian brothers? And our Persian brothers?

    Sorry to get theological but the Persians sent three important men when a child was born in the story. Theological stories are important when third parties are demonising others as religious crazies.

    How could we get on the wrong side of our Russian and Persian cousins? Unless there are people who don’t want peace?

    How did things ever get so far? I don’t know?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODabfFKcD-M

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    Graeme Bird

    Thats alright. I’m not angry like the old days. You just do your best and I’ll respect your decisions.

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    Graeme Bird

    Given your charms you are like the good half-sister of crazy-Pamela. In the same way as I may be Barry Whites evil half brother.

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    Graeme Bird

    Sweety you see this fellow? This fellow is Barry White. Emissary of love. I am his evil half-brother. Barry Black. And we may come to find there is a compromise brother called Barry Beige We can come to all manner of compromises but we cannot compromise on the idea that this rather excellent President was mislead when he killed our White Prince.

    Our White Prince belonged to all of us. Because targeting civilians is a cancer that has been with us too long. And the White Prince destroyed ISIS.

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    Graeme Bird

    One of the key things about Western Civilisation is that we will wage war and kill our betters, but we’ll give them a good Christian burial. The Good Western man will kill an opponent once. But he will not kill him twice. And there is a grave comeuppance if we kill the opponent, than go too far and abuse his memory.

    It was one thing for Achilles to kill Hector. But he went too far when he killed Hector twice. By dragging Hector behind his chariot. Disgraceful. This behaviour is primitive behaviour and no good can come of it.

    So what good can come of defaming the White Knight, a brother to us all?

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