JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


Handbooks


Advertising


Australian Speakers Agency



GoldNerds

The nerds have the numbers on precious metals investments on the ASX



The Skeptics Handbook

Think it has been debunked? See here.

The Skeptics Handbook II

Climate Money Paper



Archives

Meet the doomers: The near term human extinction support group

In this world, the deniers are the ones who think humans will survive

There are people more extreme than Extinction Rebellion. Though in a quieter way. They’ve given up. They’re so convinced by the apocalypse — a world careering towards doom — that they only feel at home around others who share their fears. Many have lost relationships, and now often hide their beliefs from their family. Many have dropped out of protests.

Activism means growing opium poppies so they have painkillers to make the end-time easier instead of starving. Kind of like “preppers” but not that optimistic.

James Purtill the ABC journalist, admits he himself was too dark for his girlfriend. “We broke up”.

The doomers get evicted and isolated from mainstream believers because “they sound too much like deniers”. Just as the deniers (he means skeptics) say there is no point cutting emissions, so do the doomers: they figure death is coming, it’s too late, why bother? Indeed.

Unlike the XR-attention-seekers, these are the gullible but they’re introverted, nicer, not forcing their beliefs on anyone. After the fantasy leap to believe in experts and models, there’s a certain kind of logic to it.

More collateral damage of the climate scare:

Breaking up over climate change: My deep dark journey into doomer Facebook

James Purtill, ABC

The Near Term Human Extinction SUPPORT Group was set up in 2013 and now has 6,400+ members and a description that reads: “For people who have accepted that HUMAN EXTINCTION IS INEVITABLE IN THE NEAR TERM due to anthropogenic global warming (AGW) and the consequences, based on trends determined by scientific research.” (Their caps locks).

It politely adds: “This is a forum for friendly and non-threatening discussion.”

But clarifies: “Note: If you believe that humans will survive, we ask that you join other more relevant groups such as Positive Deep Adaptation.”

The admins of the group proved hostile to me, a random Australian reporter.

“Luckily” he could win them over because he too shared some of their gloom:

Roblyn explained that the people she spoke to had found refuge in these online groups after their world had fallen apart. First, they had been traumatised by what they had learned about climate change and the future, and then they had lost their friends and family and their status in the community by trying to communicate the urgency of their discovery to others.

“Many of them only had these online groups to believe them and to talk to them as though they were serious human beings,” she said.

It’s an interesting, if melancholy read. The group was traumatized when they realized there was a reporter present. They already felt isolated.

What the doomers don’t realize is that they have to get evicted from the climate religion because their do-nothing defeatism is a threat to “the cause”. To get maximal motivation, believers must balance on the fine edge of belief that the world is about to end, but that it is just barely savable. A lot of careers and $1.5 trillion dollars of industrial climate gigs benefit from maintaining this crest atop the endless wave of shifting goal posts. Tomorrow it’ll be too late…

The ABC journo draws the approved solution, of course — all roads lead to “a means to an ends”:

Like Flannery, I’m beginning to think climate rebellion is the only way, which is scary.

On the plus side:

 ”But at least I don’t have to worry about retirement any more.” — one doomer to another.

 

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 9.4/10 (66 votes cast)
Meet the doomers: The near term human extinction support group, 9.4 out of 10 based on 66 ratings

247 comments to Meet the doomers: The near term human extinction support group

  • #
    Lionell Griffith

    It was once said that “in the long run we are all dead”. That is true but with one huge but: BUT what are we going to do with ourselves until that time comes.

    My answer is: Live as long as you can, as freely as you can, and do the best you can. Then, in the end, have no regrets.

    Their answer: Struggle and fight reality with all your might. Make everybody else miserable by your prophecies of doom. Then worry yourself to death about something that isn’t happening and that you couldn’t do anything about if it did happen.

    An even worse answer: Give up and don’t do anything to make the world a better place. Then, in the end, die with every regret about what could have been but that you made sure didn’t happen.

    510

    • #
      Bulldust

      All of this goes on when it is indisputably the best time to be alive in all of human history, by just about any measure you care to cite, and certainly in an holistic sense. People are idiots.

      270

      • #
        John McClure

        Is it people or Politicians?

        Example: years ago on this site, numerous articles pointed out the idiocy of not allowing farmers to clear brush. To what extent are the current forest fires a consequence of the idiocy?

        60

        • #
          John McClure

          Source: https://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-law-of-unintended-consequences.htm

          Excerpts:

          The law of unintended consequences is the outgrowth of many theories, but was probably best defined by sociologist Robert K. Merton in 1936. Merton wrote an article, The Unanticipated Consequences of Purposive Social Action, which covers five different ways that actions, particularly those taken on a large scale as by governments, may have unexpected consequences. These “reactions,” may be positive, negative or merely neutral, but they veer off from the intent of the initial action. Merton also described five reasons why a “law” or change might fall under the heading of the law of unintended consequences.

          The two top reasons why the law of unintended consequences works, according to Merton, is that the framers of a social change are either ignorant of possible far reaching effects of the law or make errors when they develop a change that don’t have the effects they desired. Other reasons why we sometimes see changes occur after any type of event, new scientific development, or treaty is passed may have to do with “self interest,” so much so that a person who desperately wants to see a change doesn’t evaluate the ultimate effects of that change.

          10

          • #
            John McClure

            Source: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/this-greta-thunberg-thing-is-child-abuse


            “The case of Thunberg is even more egregious. She began suffering from depression as a child, by her own admission, in part because she learned about climate change at age 8. She was later diagnosed with autism and obsessive compulsive disorder and gradually became despondent as she obsessed over her fear of climate change. She developed mutism and an eating disorder so severe that she once went two months without food, and she stopped going to school. Her only sibling, a sister named Beata, also suffers from Asperger’s and OCD, as well as ADHD. ”

            “Now tell me, does it seem healthy to place a child with this many mental illnesses under the spotlight of public scrutiny, with a sole focus on the very phenomenon and associated alarmism that triggered her in the first place?”

            60

            • #
              John McClure

              When will the Scientific Community step up to properly explain all the uncertainty!

              When will the Scientific Community realize it’s scaring the Crap out of 8 year old?

              When will the Scientific Community that responsively insightfully?

              20

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      All of this crap is just modern day
      Godless !
      Armageddon bullsh#t.
      There is among some
      In the human species
      A tendency to believe such nonsense.

      60

      • #
        Lionell Griffith

        What if the universe were Godless? Would that make any real difference? I think not. Especially since God (any defined God worthy of the name) presents no objective evidence of his existence. This means he/she/it has no impact upon reality and therefor makes no real difference in anything that matters.

        Question to True Believers: if one or more of your articles of Faith were not true, how would you know it? Especially since a True Believer cannot question or doubt any article of his Faith? Would you simply believe anyway? If so, this would mean you don’t care about what actually is or is not and are willing to believe anything you have been taught to believe.

        30

        • #
          Kalm Keith

          Literalism on steroids.

          Means that they don’t have to think and make decisions.

          God will watch over them, just believe.

          KK

          00

        • #
          Speedy

          G’day Lionel

          You ask some pretty fundamental questions that I’m not qualified to answer beyond the experience of my own heart and soul. By definition, your question is supernatural, and beyond an evidential response perhaps. But I’ll try.

          Does God exist? For a true believer, doubt is always present. Because, in the lack of concrete evidence, then our continued commitment must be questioned in deference to our intellectual capacity. Personally, I think that doubt is not a fault, but a sign of someone who is seeking the truth. Sceptical, perhaps? Nothing wrong with that.

          Does God exist? Most people will say “I don’t know”, which is true, but this fails to address the underlying question. The correct answer is either “Yes” or “No”. Because the existence or otherwise of God is independent of our acknowledgement (or otherwise) of God’s existence. God’s existence? Yes – or No.

          Again, does God exist? Carl Sagan made the rather less than helpful suggestion that perhaps God needed to inscribe the 10 commandments onto the face of the moon so that we would read and follow them. But perhaps this has happened already, by inscribing them onto our hearts? It’s called natural law. How many of us feel good about being materialistic, or about betraying our neighbours through deception, theft, greed, adultery etc? Perhaps we are programmed for good, may I suggest? In my personal experience, goodness leads to happiness.

          But I’m afraid that maybe I’ve skirted your question here. How did the Universe come into being? There are two options. One is that the Universe was created by an infinite God, whose power is beyond our understanding. The other is that the Universe created itself. Personally, I struggle with either, finding both to be incredible at the intellectual level. But I find the Theist option is more intellectually consistent because the material world (e.g. rocks) do not self propagate. How much less am entire universe, may I suggest?

          My apologies, but perhaps I lack the level of faith to believe in a Godless universe…

          In the Theist option, we accept the existence of a supernatural being with infinite powers who is responsible for creation and its continued existence. In the Non-Theist option, we must accept that a material entity (an atom, a brick, a planet or a universe) willed itself into existence, complete with the laws and controls that enable it to exist in harmonious stability. (Despite the fact that no-one has seen a spec of dust come into spontaneous existence, much less a universe.) In either case, this conjecture lies beyond the scope of physical science. But a passing glimpse of science shows us that (e.g.) the DNA in your body represents a complex plan. (You’re smart enough to fill in the gaps here.)

          I confess that both theories are outside my scientific explanation, however, the Theist option is more intellectually credible. To paraphrase Shakespeare there is more in Heaven and Earth than are dreamt upon within our philosophy…

          So if the responses lie beyond our natural experience, then the correct answer is either Yes or No, depending on our interpretation of the world. For me, my belief is founded on faith rather than materialistic fact. Bluntly, my faith is founded on what I want to believe in. Call me a fool, but I have an optimistic perspective of the Universe and the people it supports. I believe they are intrinsically inclined to good, and that this reflects the nature of the creator – God’s image – as it were. I look around at most of the people who populate this world and this website, and believe they are good. Their goodness has a source.

          Maybe, as I’ve said, I’m wrong. But in the meantime, I will live my life with the expectation that my happiness is linked to the happiness bestowed on me by a Loving God and intended to be shared with my companions on this rather short journey. I hope your find happiness and can share it with others in your life as well.

          But I can assure you that those who expect the material world to satisfy their every yearning will, like Alexander the Great, end their days weeping for the riches they never achieved.

          Cheers,

          Mike

          20

          • #
            Kalm Keith

            Interesting piece Speedy, but is there a small hint of creationism in there.

            God’s work is about the here and now and what happened a billion years ago or even six thousand years ago, as some like to push, is surely irrelevant.

            With the number of wars that have plagued the world over the last two hundred years my hope is that God can help us to avoid future carnage.

            :-) KK

            00

    • #
      René Fries

      On many places in his books, Hans Blumenberg https://blog.apaonline.org/2019/05/13/the-invisible-philosopher-hans-blumenberg/ goes to some lengths about “Apokalypsen”, plural form of course, because each and every historic epoch, at least in Europe, had her own “apocalypsists”, some of whom predicted exactly the day on which (etc).

      A more concise and exhilarating lecture: Eva Horn, „Zukunft als Katastrophe / The future as catastrophe“, S. Fischer Verlag, Frankfurt am Main 2014 – I don’t know if there is any translation.

      00

  • #
    John F. Hultquist

    There are images on the web of folks falling into Black Holes.
    That’s what this post made me think of.

    I wonder if these doom-believers may, in fact be doomed. If a person spends 10 or 15 years in this state-of-mind, what do they do when nothing much of what they expected happens?

    320

    • #

      Lets look at what the IPCC has done to keep its useful idiots engaged as their claims of doom never materialize. It’s been about 3 decades since their first prognostications of doom within a decade and the only thing they’ve accomplished is to incite gullible people like doomers to make choices against their best interest, to coerce the media into echo lies and misinformation and contribute to the corruption of politics. What they do to remain relevant is move the goalposts, ramp up the rhetoric and double down on fake science that’s so wrong it’s an embarrassment to legitimate science. We’ve been 10-15 years from doom for about 3 decades now. As long as the doom is always 10-15 years away, the doomers will forget that this is déjà vu all over again.

      440

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        Criminal liability does to mind. So what does the perpetration of total scientific fr@ud by a UN agency mean? Can they be held accountable for severe psychological stress.

        51

        • #

          Probably not for stressing out a bunch of snowflakes. Perhaps they can be held accountable for their financial fraud against the developed world that makes Bernie Madoff look like a petty thief.

          30

    • #
      Andrew McRae

      what do they do when nothing much of what they expected happens?

      I guess they stop being fatalistic and become Born Again Riskyans.

      10

  • #
    Stonyground

    Don’t these people realise that prophets of doom, just like hurricanes, are nothing new? These prophets all have one thing in common, they are always wrong. Just because the latest bunch claim to be scientists doesn’t make them any different. If these gullible fools want to waste their lives on this rubbish let them, I’ve run out of sympathy for the stupid idiots of this world.

    430

    • #
      Tom O

      My only fear about these people are that in the end, rather than expire in their misery singularly, they decide to take those of us not in misery with them. Cults are frightening things, and “doomers” sounds like a dark cult. I trust no group like that not to decide that since extinction is inevitable, let’s take things into our own hands and speed it up.

      160

    • #
      ivan

      I very much doubt that these people realise much of anything, after all the school stopped teaching kids to think a long while ago especially in universities and it has got worse in the last few years with the snowflake ‘safe places ‘ stupidity.

      260

    • #
      Kevin Lohse

      I agree. However, there is the likelihood that if enough Doomers get together to form a critical mass, they will start to infect the population at large with their illness, and things could get very sticky indeed.

      200

    • #
      Binny Pegler

      What’s needed is climate monasteries, where they can all go and take a vow of silence.

      30

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    I guess fighting for a usless cause keeps the XR kiddiies out of trouble…..otherwise they could have been gainfully employed or actually contribute to society……

    130

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    “Life…dont talk to me about life”

    -Marvin the paranoid android
    “Hitchhikers Guide to The Universe”

    110

    • #
      TdeF

      He was just clinically depressed. “When met at the restaurant at the End of the Universe, he was in a car park. When asked what he had been doing for billions of years, half the life of the universe, he said “parking cars, what else?”

      90

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    50%? While its sunny …and the wind is blowing.
    What are the figures for cloudy days and no wind?

    https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-07/half-of-biggest-electricity-market-supplied-by-green-energy/11680766

    “Green energy sources — mostly solar and wind — met most of the demand for the national electricity market (NEM) just before lunchtime on Wednesday, surpassing 50 per cent of supply for the first time.

    “The NEM provides power to all jurisdictions except Western Australia and the Northern Territory, which have separate grids.

    “Angus Gemmell, the founder and head of renewable energy firm Solar Choice, hailed the achievement, saying it showed Australia was rapidly reducing its reliance on fossil fuels such as coal.

    90

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      For 10 minuttes.
      In the middle of the day.
      Cheers
      Dave B

      70

    • #
      Chad

      Actually, NO it did not !
      The energy being used from the grid at that point in time (11:50 on Weds) was 18.5 GW
      Wind , Solar, and Hydro, were supplying 6.4 GW
      Fossil sources supplied 12.1 GW.

      Sure Roof Top solar also was generating another 5 GW, but that is not part of the Demand on the NEM.

      00

  • #
    nb

    Neurotics and depressives wanting to make the world in their image.

    161

    • #
      yarpos

      Pretty much, what a way to live your life though. You would get yourself into such a physical and mental state that it would be a self fulfilling prophecy at least for thse individuals.

      The other gems are the couple that decide not to have children. I can never work out of they were doing that anyway and are just taking some virtue signalling as icing on the cake or if they are really that climate stupid and are just making a great contribution to the gene pool.

      70

    • #
      King Geo

      To all those doomsdayists, armageddonists, extinction rebellionists etc.

      Chill out and watch the Norwegian group Madcon’s brilliant music video “Don’t worry bout a thing”.

      And filmed in Norway where one needs to chill out especially in winter.

      30

  • #
    AndyG55

    oorrrrh.. DIDDUMS !!!

    111

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    Global carbon (sic) emissions are NEVER going down. Ever …

    EIA projects energy consumption in air transportation to increase through 2050

    “EIA expects jet fuel consumption to increase at a faster rate than any other liquid transportation fuel through 2050.
    During this time, global commercial jet fuel use more than doubles from 13 quadrillion British thermal units (quads) in 2018 to 29 quads in 2050.
    More than half of the growth occurs in non-OECD countries, whose collective consumption of jet fuel surpasses OECD countries’ jet fuel consumption by 2040.”

    https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=41913
    ~~~
    UN Apocalyptic Global Warming belief IS a mental health problem, not an environmental one.

    Check out this sad, depressing thread from twitter. Some are so wrapped up in grief and depression …

    Hey Twitter! I’m currently doing a project on the mental health impacts that climate change leaves on individuals. What’s your story?

    https://twitter.com/queenbeetheag/status/1189910297798156288

    90

  • #
    Drapetomania

    Like Flannery, I’m beginning to think climate rebellion is the only way, which is scary.

    Yawn…quoting the king of failed predictions…..sipping your double decaf soy with a lemon twist lamenting how we are doomed..Its beyond a parody..

    220

  • #

    Slightly OT, or not.

    Sale of indulgences dominates Madrid climate summit
    https://www.cfact.org/2019/11/07/sale-of-indulgences-dominates-madrid-climate-summit/

    The beginning: In Madrid the negotiators will be trying hard to finalize the Paris Accord emission trading scheme. The non-binding Paris Accord targets may have big bucks value for some developing countries and this has led to a paralyzing controversy.

    Emission trading means any country that does better than their target can sell the difference as indulgences, called carbon credits. This is potentially a huge market. The airlines are already promising to offset their enormous, jet propelled emissions, and most developed countries are not on track to hit their targets, so there are a lot of potential buyers.

    Countries like China and India have a lot to sell, despite their coal mania, because their targets are based on emissions per GDP, not emissions per se. Industrialization increases emissions but it increases productivity even more, a lot more. Booming Brazil also has a pot full of indulgences to sell, as may others.

    This big pile of old credits is the primary sticking point. The new trading scheme, called the Sustainable Development Mechanism (SDM), replaces the old Clean Development Mechanism (CDM) under the Kyoto Protocol, which expires next year. China and India have banked huge amounts of CDM carbon credits, thanks to their rapid industrialization. So much that some fear there is danger of a glut making credits worthless. China and the other big holders of CDM credits do not see it that way.

    There is also the feeling that the old CDM credits are mostly bogus. A 2016 EU-commissioned report found that just 2% of CDM projects were likely to ensure additional emissions reductions. Claiming emission reductions for projects that were going ahead anyway is cheating in many people’s eyes.

    There is also the issue called “double counting.” This is when Country A sells credits to Country B, but does not subtract the credit from its reduction claim. In effect both A and B are then counting the reduction the credit is supposedly based on. (Socialism is the land of complex rules.) Preventing this sort of double counting would require that every country open their emission books to outside scrutiny, which China especially does not want.

    For these reasons, among others, there is a widespread movement to not allow CDM credits to be brought forward into the SDM pot. China, India et al disagree strongly. They want to cash in on those old credits. With possibly billions of dollars at stake, this is by far the biggest issue on the Madrid summit table. After all, this whole show is about money, not climate.

    There is more in the article.

    This is just the beginning of my Madrid coverage.

    David

    230

    • #
      Geoffrey Williams

      Great work David. Helping us to undestand what is going on with the Paris climate accord.
      It is certainly a box of tricks that’s for sure.
      GeoffW

      110

  • #
    PeterW

    Another attempt to paint the future as worse than ever.

    Supposedly a “thought experiment”, that seems aimed at convincing us that we should panic more. My response to the difference between 99% and 100% of humans dying…

    1. If we accept evolutionary timescales, “civilisation” has been in existence for such a tiny fraction of the earth’s existence that it’s irrational to argue that the earth/universe will continue without it.

    2… We won’t be here to experience the lack of it.

    3… Evolution is not directed and has no meaning, so there is no real argument that anything meaningful has been lost, or that it cannot arise again over the next few million/billion years.

    Ergo, the argument that we need to go beyond our “gut feelings” is based on someone else’s gut feelings. It’s a circular argument.

    These people are kooky.

    https://digest.bps.org.uk/2019/10/30/were-not-great-at-thinking-about-the-long-term-consequences-of-catastrophes-that-threaten-our-existence/

    170

    • #
      yarpos

      there is a rabid right wing capitalist blog I read occasionally when I feel like a taste of loony in the comments section (the articles are OK). Its motto:

      “On a long enough timeline, everyones survival chances reduce to zero”

      100

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      I rather like the black humour in the observation that “life is a sexually transmitted terminal disease”.
      But I find it fascinating..
      Cheers
      Dave B

      50

  • #
    BoyfromTottenham

    I think these folk have moved beyond being ‘useful idiots’ to being mentally ill – depressed at least, if not worse. I am over 70, a climate sceptic, still happily working, and positive about the future (in Australia at least). I feel very sorry for people who lack (or who have lost) the capacity to think objectively, and find it easier to allow themselves to spiral down into a dark gloom. These folk need medical help. I sincerely hope that they get it and recover a healthy, positive outlook on life. Millions survived the real terrors of WW2 and Soviet communism, as I survived the threat of catastrophic nuclear war that hung over us growing up in Britain in the 1950s and 60s. Surely we can all survive the mere threat of a change in the weather?

    320

    • #
      diogenese2

      I am also a boy from Tottenham, that is London N17. Born in Broadwater Road, in 1944 at 18 months what was the third V1 flying bomb to reach the city landed next door and killed everybody. We all survived so I supposed the 75 years since has been a bonus. Well I remember the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962 as you clearly do. Only 12 years to annihilation! We only had 3 minutes, the civil defense advice was “put your hands over your head, put your head between your knees and kiss your a*** goodbye”. Since then I have followed the lead of Kingsley Amis who, when chided over his self indulgent lifestyle, asked “Why should I lead the life of a monk to gain 3 years in a nursing home in Weston Super Mare” You have to have been to Weston to appreciate his comment and to understand why the artist Banksy chose it to host his exhibition “Dismaland”.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wruEnynr1w

      The flaw in Kingsleys argument is that you get your 3 years in Weston anyway, just sooner rather than later. When younger than I am now he had a stroke but stayed true to his principles and promptly died.
      He would have regretted not having invented “The Near Term Human Extinction Support Group”. “Lucky Jim” would have made a perfect Chairman.
      Now that’s a thought

      170

      • #
        BoyfromTottenham

        Hi Diogenes2,
        Ah, the happy summer days spent at the Lordship Lane Rec!
        We lived in a 19c terrace down near the railway station end of Park Lane, with a nice row of Council Houses across the road that were built to replace the block of 19c terraces flattened by a land mine in WW2. We emigrated to AU in the early 60s (as ‘ten pound poms’) and haven’t looked back. cheers!

        130

        • #
          diogenese2

          Hi, you were playing in sight of our wrecked house.My Uncle was a ten pound pom just before you., went to Cairns and didn’ t look back either. I still have his last letter to my mother to quote “ I had a good life” and he did. What he would say about the state of Oz now I cannot print.

          50

    • #
      yarpos

      They have always been there , just like so many other pockets of weirdness. But now we have the Internet so they can connect , chat and feed off one another. Great innit?

      100

  • #
    el gordo

    Boomers definitely aren’t doomers, so there is still hope.

    A lot of millennials want to enjoy life before the world comes to an end, but those horrible old guys don’t believe the end is nigh and won’t give up their lifestyle. The young ones talk of revolution and over throwing the elites, but it will come to nothing.

    111

    • #
      glen Michel

      I don’t know when mental resilience folded, but I notice a lack of it across the social board. As a species we are meant to endure – where animals go mad men endure. Seems as though this young bloke wants to find a corner to curl up and die. Advice: get out from your stultifying environment and enjoy the most propitious of times.

      121

    • #
      Yonniestone

      You cannot paint an entire generation with a broad brush, consider how many Boomers have taken their lives over the decades from farmers to stockbrokers and everything in between.

      Regardless of generations or demographics there has always been a small percentage of the population that have a low threshold to self preservation.

      70

    • #
      yarpos

      I guess boomers existence is an act of faith and joy in the future after the ravages of war.

      As boomers grew up we were subjected to so many prophecies of doom we became pretty resilient in that area. The world has been going to end in so many way since 1945 its been pretty crazy between nuclear war, real wars, ice ages, peak oil, GFCs, godzilla and now unprecedented/tipping point/catastophic AGW stuff.

      Personally I suspect there will be Hitchikers Guide event and the we are all going to look pretty silly.

      130

  • #

    IPCC delta impact proposal

    “Trump’s greatest dereliction of duty – – his disgraceful denial of climate change”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/11/05/trumps-greatest-dereliction-duty-his-disgraceful-denial-climate-change/

    Says “At a time when the international scientific community has concluded that we have 11 years to avert the worst of climate change, Trump and his Republican allies are working to intensify the threat, not deter it. A more egregious dereliction of duty is impossible to imagine. Trump’s denial mirrors the story of Nero fiddling while Rome burns. Like Nero, Trump is helping set the flames. Democrats are raising the alarm. The contrast cannot be clearer.”

    Here is the wildly false claim: “At a time when the international scientific community has concluded that we have 11 years to avert the worst of climate change…”

    This false claim refers to the IPCC SR15 report issued in October 2018. What the IPCC really said was we have until 2030 to prevent the small difference in impact between 1.5 degrees of total warming and 2.0 degrees. With one degree already done this is just the difference between 0.5 degrees of new warming and 1.0 degrees. The question only came up because both targets are mentioned in the Paris Accord.

    https://www.ipcc.ch/sr15/chapter/spm/

    According to the IPCC this difference in impact is relatively small. It is certainly not “the worst of climate change” as the Post and other alarmists repeatedly say.

    Proposal

    I propose to go through the IPCC report and pull out just what these small incremental impacts are. This is the only way to rationally counter these outrageous claims. While there will be some impacts, the notion that we should restructure society to avoid them will be obviously wrong. Need a sponsor of course.

    120

    • #

      I want you all to ponder this for just one minute.

      We have ELEVEN YEARS until ….. the end of the World.

      They (keep telling us that they) actually KNOW what is causing it.

      The emissions of Carbon Dioxide CO2.

      If they SERIOUSLY believed that, then they would be just shutting down those emissions cold, stone dead, no more, full stop, and not just talking about it, or more importantly, just making money out of it.

      They would be STOPPING them flat out.

      But no, they just keep on building more CO2 emitting power plants, flying more, increased shipping, building bigger and better gas guzzlers, consuming more oil, consuming more coal, consuming more fossil fuels, and actually exponentially INCREASING those emissions of CO2.

      If they seriously believed that all this was leading to the end of the World in 11 years, they would be STOPPING it all right now, full stop. Forget the problems this might cause in the interim, because we have to do this to STOP the end of the World. We have the ingenuity to find a way forward out of this. We’ll have a few years of short term pain until we find out how to get by, but really, this is the END OF THE WORLD we are facing, so we have to do this NOW.

      No, they’re not doing that at all.

      The only thing they actually ARE doing is making money from it, diverting that money to where they think it will be needed (oh, minus a little bit for me) and talking about how good all this money will be doing in these poorer Developing Countries, umm, supposedly after the World has actually ended.

      And you wonder why I’m cynical.

      It’s all so ….. fake.

      Tony.

      270

    • #
      Alice Thermopolis

      “I propose to go through the IPCC report and pull out just what these small incremental impacts are. This is the only way to rationally counter these outrageous claims.”

      David

      SEE: https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/doomed-planet/2019/10/the-ipccs-seldom-mentioned-uncertainties/

      “The IPCC’s latest serve of climate catastrophism, released just before the UN General Assembly met in New York last month, ironically contained some good news. But not even “inadequate” models, “limited” observations, poor understanding, dodgy “projections” and revelations about “deep uncertainty” could rein in the hyperbole.”

      40

      • #

        The thing is there wasn’t any catastrophe mentioned in that report. It was just about the relatively small difference in impact between 1.5 and 2.0 degrees of total warming, the two Paris targets.

        10

  • #
    Robert Swan

    No escape for us either. To the typical alarmist we are “denialists”, and to these hopeless cases we are “de-nihilists”.

    60

  • #
    Yonniestone

    Thanks for putting this up Jo, I personally know someone who has gotten to this point but having never engaged in social media didn’t know about these groups, this state of mind they are in has completely affected their work and relationships with other people.

    I wonder how much of this is the ideals of a cult versus the already underlying condition of depression, sometimes the way people have handled personal tragic events in the past is an indication of regressive behaviour.

    80

    • #
      yarpos

      Thats one of my wifes responses to stupidity and hand wringing, “Jeez, imagine what they would be like in a real crisis. I wouldnt want to be near them”

      150

  • #
    • #
      Ian Hill

      I just saw a picture of a “carbon clock” in Germany in a news article and the caption says warming (increase) must be restricted to 34-36 degrees F! These young journalists are their own worst enemy!

      30

  • #
    PeterW

    One of the consequences of social media.

    In previous generations, if you had a whacky idea and water to talk about it, you had to work pretty hard to avoid people telling you not to be an idiot. Now you can find the 2,people out of seven billion who agree with you and block out the rest of the world.

    110

  • #
    Another Ian

    “Green New Deal Dems Toss Their Support Behind Report Pushing To Fast-Track Population Control”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/11/06/green-new-deal-dems-toss-their-support-behind-report-pushing-to-fast-track-population-control/

    50

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Where’s Hanrahan ? He’s always adding “we’re doomed” to the end of every post !

    81

    • #
      Hanrahan

      Maybe I’ll have to change my nic. On this topic I don’t believe we are doomed.

      130

    • #
      PeterW

      We’ll all be rooned,” said Hanrahan,
      In accents most forlorn,
      Outside the church, ere Mass began,
      One frosty Sunday morn.
      The congregation stood about,
      Coat-collars to the ears,
      And talked of stock, and crops, and drought,
      As it had done for years.
      “It’s lookin’ crook,” said Daniel Croke;
      “Bedad, it’s cruke, me lad,
      For never since the banks went broke
      Has seasons been so bad.”
      “It’s dry, all right,” said young O’Neil,
      With which astute remark
      He squatted down upon his heel
      And chewed a piece of bark.
      And so around the chorus ran
      “It’s keepin’ dry, no doubt.”
      “We’ll all be rooned,” said Hanrahan,
      “Before the year is out.
      “The crops are done; ye’ll have your work
      To save one bag of grain;
      From here way out to Back-o’-Bourke
      They’re singin’ out for rain.
      “They’re singin’ out for rain,” he said,
      “And all the tanks are dry.”
      The congregation scratched its head,
      And gazed around the sky.
      “There won’t be grass, in any case,
      Enough to feed an ass;
      There’s not a blade on Casey’s place
      As I came down to Mass.”
      “If rain don’t come this month,” said Dan,
      And cleared his throat to speak–
      “We’ll all be rooned,” said Hanrahan,
      “If rain don’t come this week.”
      A heavy silence seemed to steal
      On all at this remark;
      And each man squatted on his heel,
      And chewed a piece of bark.
      “We want a inch of rain, we do,”
      O’Neil observed at last;
      But Croke “maintained” we wanted two
      To put the danger past.
      “If we don’t get three inches, man,
      Or four to break this drought,
      We’ll all be rooned,” said Hanrahan,
      “Before the year is out.”
      In God’s good time down came the rain;
      And all the afternoon
      On iron roof and window-pane
      It drummed a homely tune.
      And through the night it pattered still,
      And lightsome, gladsome elves
      On dripping spout and window-sill
      Kept talking to themselves.
      It pelted, pelted all day long,
      A-singing at its work,
      Till every heart took up the song
      Way out to Back-o’Bourke.
      And every creek a banker ran,
      And dams filled overtop;
      “We’ll all be rooned,” said Hanrahan,
      “If this rain doesn’t stop.”
      And stop it did, in God’s good time;
      And spring came in to fold
      A mantle o’er the hills sublime
      Of green and pink and gold.
      And days went by on dancing feet,
      With harvest-hopes immense,
      And laughing eyes beheld the wheat
      Nid-nodding o’er the fence.
      And, oh, the smiles on every face,
      As happy lad and lass
      Through grass knee-deep on Casey’s place
      Went riding down to Mass.
      While round the church in clothes genteel
      Discoursed the men of mark,
      And each man squatted on his heel,
      And chewed his piece of bark.
      “There’ll be bush-fires for sure, me man,
      There will, without a doubt;
      We’ll all be rooned,” said Hanrahan,
      “Before the year is out.”
      John O’Brien

      100

  • #
    Another Ian

    “Okay just throwing this out there for folks to file away, the first link is an off the wall site that claims the globalists want to kill off 6 billion people.”

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2019/10/31/w-o-o-d-30-october-2019/#comment-119300

    40

  • #
  • #
    Earl

    The manufacturers of plastic mattress protectors must be making a killing with all this bed wetting..

    130

  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    As I finish the second week of bushfire alerts, I’m starting to agree with them.

    If the threat posed by climate change had been taken seriously earlier, myself, my children and my grandchildren would not be enduring these unseasonably large and destructive fires

    135

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Don’t go there Peter, you’re far more useful as a climate idiot/savant for the amusement of others. :)

      Consider Peter here in Victoria we’ve had rain and temps barely into the teens (9C atm) where during our last drought 1998-2010 we had extended fire seasons culminating with the Black Saturday Fires, what part of natural cycles and forest management don’t you get?

      290

    • #
      Greg in NZ

      Chill out, Fireman Fitz,

      your imaginary ‘threat posed by climate change’ has now buried the hills of Tasmania with fresh frozen snow:

      http://mtmawson.info/snow-cam/

      If it’s too far to swim the Bass Strait – because you know you can’t travel by ship nor plane – try the snow-covered slopes of Victoria’s Mt Buller:

      https://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Mount-Buller/webcams/latest

      Coldest, snowiest, freezingest November in Australia E V A H ! ! ! apart from the last time it happened.

      Relax, enjoy, take a deep breath – no one gets outta here alive – at least Jim Morrison knew what he was talking about.

      210

    • #
      Brian

      Humans have always found solace in attributing natural disasters to an external force Peter. Initially a punishment from the Gods or God depending on belief systems and now apparently climate change. The fact is that Australia has experienced cycles of drought for millions of years with the worst since settlement being the The Federation drought. This lasted from 1891 to 1903 and even the CSIRO agree that it was much was greater than the current situation. Bushfires were endemic and Victoria burned. The Murray Darling system dried up and most rivers in NSW ceased flowing. Dust storms buried homesteads and filled dams, sand drifts blocked railways, stock losses amounted to tens of millions and the ecosystem was in danger of total collapse. Even when the cycled moves from drought to flooding rain bushfires will continue to be a feature of the Australian ecosystem.

      120

    • #
      AndyG55

      “If the threat posed by climate change…blah, blah blah….”

      Gees you talk a load of total BALDERDASH, PF

      No evidence at all that CO2 has anything to do with Australia’s NATURAL droughts and hot weather.

      100

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      No no no….

      Lack of backburning means much worse fires.

      Simples…..

      100

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        And your proof is- Back burning is going on around Sydney today, it was completed in this region in late July. Stop arguing out of ignorance, Bring some facts to the table for a freaking change

        217

        • #
        • #
          AndyG55

          “Bring some facts to the table for a freaking change”

          From you, that is the height of self-mockery.

          You never have any FACTS, PF

          You are EMPTY of facts.

          90

        • #
          robert rosicka

          Poiter if it was burnt in July why is it burning again and uncontrollably?

          80

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            you tell me, you seem to be an expert

            19

            • #
              Dennis

              Too much fuel on the ground Peter, so maybe your claim is a fairy tale, or the controlled burn areas are not now burning, or because permits restricted the burn off area very hot fires went through the tree top foliage?

              Fuel on the ground and Green fools in offices who haven’t got a clue.

              Consider Dubbo and surrounding districts NSW, a large property I visit could be tidier but only 35 per cent of material or fuel for fire can be picked up in any one year.

              100

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                And?
                When are permits required for fuel reduction burns? Because permits are not required for all such burns (it is season dependant)
                You are allowed to slash as much as you want.

                You dispute my claims (fairy tale), yet you lack the intellectual resources to prove the alternative

                You claim to be a sceptic, but if you represent the bar one has to reach to claim such, how do you avoid the title?

                /Make all the accusations you want, call me a liar if you must, but please produce some facts

                013

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                This suggests hazard teduction burns need RFS permits

                https://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/about-us/our-districts/bland-temora/hazard-reduction

                90

              • #
                AndyG55

                ” please produce some facts”

                Yep we are still waiting for you to produce some facts, PF !

                Empty so far.

                70

              • #
                robert rosicka

                Poiter as others have pointed out you know very little about fighting fires or controlled burns .
                The red tape required is onerous and overly complicated for a controlled burn on public land .
                Any variation on the permit ,anything changes on the day it’s cancelled and the red tape starts again .
                Also a problem is the guy in charge of the burn is held responsible for any fire that gets out of control so they won’t burn anything at all if they can get away with it.
                But the main point is permits are required and are very restrictive.

                70

        • #
          PeterW

          If you want to talk facts, it is a FACT that every major bushfire enquiry in Eastern Australia going back to the Stratton Royal Commission into the 1939 fires, has found that we are doing insufficient Fuel Management (AKA “Hazard Reduction) burning.

          It is a FACT that at no time in the last 80 years have NSW and Victoria actually met the recommended targets, other than when pretending the wildfires are fuel management.

          It is outright dishonest to pretend that Fuel Management is intended to “stop” fires, even though they do sometimes have that effect. The reality is that fuel management reduces fire intensity and rate of spread, thereby making fires less damaging, less lethal and more easily controlled.

          Oh and BTW, a modest search through the Trove archives reveals August starts to severe fire seasons going back over 120 years. It’s called “drought” and has been happening in Australia for centuries.

          120

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            PeterW – I’m not disputing the nature of the Australian climate, so stop pretending that I’m doing that first shall we?
            - where are your links?
            you could have provided them, but you did not, so they do not exist.

            For example I read the report you cherry picked from, and draw a different conclusion than you.

            Areas burnt in these last 2 weeks, have not burnt previously.

            As the AGW proponents point out – the main effect is to make things worse, and that explains why the fires burnt through swamp and peat.

            When you look at the reasons why not all the prescribed burns could be done, one thing becomes clear. The number of suitable days, and the availability of RFS teams are the 2 biggest factors here.

            Keep up the the cherry picking, keep up with name calling, but don’t expect any respect accept from your sycophantic fellow contributors

            012

            • #
              William x

              Peter Fitz. So the bushfires in your area are unprecedented and are proof of warming. They are not. like the media you make it seem “catastrophic” and “Unprecedented”. This is false. Bushfires and their severity and effects have been recorded by our service for over 80 years. The data from fire reports shows that there is no trend in increases of bushfires over that period. What you will find though is that our Fire service is under pressure budget wise by reductions from the state govt which results in the loss of jobs and service. So what do we do to save funding? Simple. We use climate change as a leveredge. So management submits to the government that due to the effects of climate change our budget needs to be increased to fight this “Climate emergency”. We release to ALL of the media that in our Fire Service view catastrophic events are going to increase under this “Climate emergency”. The media report it without research and as a journalist does, amps up the “danger”. People get frightened and the Govt caves in… So we get more money to build the commissioners empire… It has nothing to do with the climate. It has everything to do with funding. How do I know PF? I am one of the senior managers.

              71

            • #
              AndyG55

              “the main effect is to make things worse”

              A FANTASY cannot have any effect on fire.

              Nature and REALITY do not work that way.

              60

            • #
              AndyG55

              “- where are your links?
              you could have provided them, but you did not, so they do not exist

              Just like your links to empirical science of warming by atmospheric CO2.

              THEY DO NOT EXIST.

              Yet you “believe” in that.

              Selective science, hey PF. ;-)

              60

    • #
      robert rosicka

      Using science Fitz go to the NASA website and see if fire activity has increased or decreased in the last 100 years !
      That is of course if you trust their Science .

      90

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      There are 87 fires in NSW ATM and 6 are near me (in the postcodes of 2444 and 2445) The fact is that it would not be this bad if it was not for AGW. Now you can prevaricate, distract, claim historically, that this has happened before, all you want. But you are delusional if you keep it up.

      This is the worst start to the fire season in NSW. However, wallow in your ignorance all you want.

      121

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Ok – challenge fot you – go find out the frequency of backburning for each of the areas currently burning and report back. That would be a good evidence based way to backip ( or not ) your CAGW hypothesis…..

        140

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          Nope – do it yourself. Go to the RFS website.

          you see, you would much rather be ignorant than do any research yourself.

          You nothing about fire in Australia, and you sprout truisms, as if they were facts, not ever provide proof.

          I have already linked to the management plan (which includes fuel reduction for Lake Innes) but since you did not bother to read that, why should I bother.

          115

          • #
            AndyG55

            “already linked to the management plan”

            Planned, but was it ever done?

            If there was nothing to burn, why did it burning

            Your cognitive malfunctionality is coming to the fore, as always PF !!

            100

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            Nope. Onus of proof on you old chum…..or put simply – prove me wrong.

            If the proof is there, it should be easy for you to post herr.

            90

            • #
              OriginalSteve

              …post here.

              40

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              You dispute my claims, which were backed with links, but provide none yourself – dishonest

              http://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/fire-information/hazard-reductions

              If you look, you will not find then answer to your question, and the reason for that, I’ll leave for you to discover, but I doubt you will be able to

              09

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                Prove me wrong…onus is on you.

                70

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Do you read?

                16

              • #
                AndyG55

                Planned.. tiny areas.

                Do you comprehend? Seems not.

                You really are FAILING BADLY, yet again PF.

                100

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                I think it was 178 if I remember correctly.

                One hundred and seventy eight souls lost to fire in Victoria such a short while ago.

                How quickly we forget.

                All, every one of them, sacrificed to the will of the green councils.

                Bloody minded slaughter because preventative maintenance was Prohibited by Faux Environmentalists.

                KK

                100

              • #
                Slithers

                So they are planning Hazard reductions in November!
                Great Job RFS.

                40

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                Slithers ,

                That’s the point, they were always going to do the hazard reduction burn the week before the fire broke out.

                It’s just that it was delayed by the inappropriately warm weather.

                Otherwise it would have been done.

                Promise.

                And they give degrees in this. BSc Ecology.

                None of them have been within a kilometer of the Bush.

                30

              • #
                Graeme No.3

                Peter F:

                It is simple THEY are out to get you. I am not sure who THEY are but I am sure that if you tell the police, and any other government agency interested, action will be taken, or possibly not (you know what government agencies are).

                30

              • #
                AndyG55

                Odd there are so many fire around PF’s way.

                Someone must REALLY hate trees. !

                30

          • #
            Brian

            Peter Fitzroy, Port Macquarie (postcode 2444) is a nice area but surrounded by national forest and reserves. Let’s face it, while Carr as Premier of NSW found the declaration of huge areas as national parks a cheap way to attract green votes, neither he nor his successors have allocated anywhere near sufficient resources to manage them. Valiant attempts are made by the Rural Fire Service with controlled burns but as you are probably aware, controlled burns only reduce the fuel load and mitigate the intensity of fires. Halving the fuel in the forest will reduce the risk of spotting, halve the rate of spread and reduce the fire intensity to a quarter. But the risk of fire remains. The drought has exacerbated the problem but the drought ios not, repeat not a function of human induced climate change.

            120

            • #
              Dennis

              Yes Brian, Labor Premier Carr, a keen bushwalker with Greens leaning, even refused to consider chartering a Canadian aircraft bushfire fighting fleet of fixed wing and helicopters for bushfire season deployment here when the company approached the NSW Government with a plan.

              Carr and his people said that Australian Bush was not like Canada so aircraft would not be suitable.

              80

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                No – it was the head of the bush fires service Brandon Leyba, , But in 1997 Elvis the skycrane proved to be so successful in victoria, that 2 more sky cranes were rushed out to help in NSW. This is when Phil Koperberg tool over leadership of the now expanded and renamed RFS

                010

              • #
                ivan

                Carr and his people said that Australian Bush was not like Canada so aircraft would not be suitable.

                Very strange that since we use them here in France to very good effect. I have photos of them pulling up off the local lake after a refill run – very impressive.

                60

      • #
        AndyG55

        “The fact is that it would not be this bad if it was not for AGW”

        Again with the totally scientifically UNSUPPORTED yabbering.

        Australia has always been a land of drought and fires.

        You have NOTHING at all to prove your baseless conjecture.

        100

      • #
        Dennis

        Peter I live in one of those bushfire areas and my farmhouse was built in the 1930s on land owned by my great grandfather since the late 1800s.

        There have been many bushfires in the past, but worse now because of the lack of controlled burning in the cooler months.

        I assume that you’re a Greens supporter, so you share the blame for the Koala losses.

        90

      • #
        PeterW

        Forty years as a firefighter tells me that you know very little yourself, PF.

        The only climate change of any significance is that Australian rainfall has returned to the drier patterns typical from the late 1800s through to the late 1960s. What we have now is called “drought”. Not only is drought endemic to Australia and August fires have been a feature of such droughts, but there is no obvious connection between droughts and AGW.

        Only a fool would imagine that fuel will not burn when it is dry, regardless of calendar.

        The NSWRFS is a government bureaucracy. It’s Commissioners are political appointees and its budget depends on the public perception of fire risk. Any reasonable cynic will acknowledge that the likelihood of a political appointee embarrassing his Minister and the Government that is the source of his budget, is low. That includes those Ministers responsible for the management of the Public lands that are the most obvious problem.
        The same reasonable cynic will acknowledge that the current level of record keeping and analysis of fires is a relatively recent phenomenon. When I first joined, landowners routinely did not report fires that we controlled ourselves.

        We have made a lot of advances in technology, but not in common sense or human nature.

        121

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          Proof – not anecdotes are required to convince me.

          AGW – Droughts and Fires. Add heat energy to the atmosphere and what do you expect. We generally have fires in Summer, when the heat energy trapped in the atmosphere is higher than in winter. Add a 1 degree C to that and things will get worse, this is physics. Now every temperature series including UAH is reporting that rise. that is the fingerprint, if you do not see it, I do not see that I have any role to play in your understanding, as like an old dog, you will not learn.

          111

          • #
            robert rosicka

            All you have is anecdotes Poiter no proof required .

            50

          • #
            AndyG55

            You have NO PROOF, PF, you NEVER do.

            Just regurgitated mindless brain-numbed nonsense.

            Droughts and Fire are NORMAL AUSTRALIAN CLIMATE.

            “that is the fingerprint, “

            ignorance still, hey PF

            Less cloud over the tropics, more energy into the tropical oceans

            El Nino release it into the atmosphere.

            Those El Ninos have been THE ONLY WARMING in the last 40 years

            CO2 has absolutely NOTHING to do with it, and you are incapable of proving that it does.

            STOP your dumb, mindless ANTI-SCIENCE fantasies, PF

            They make you look like a gullible, brain-washed, religious ZEALOT !!

            70

    • #
      Lance

      Come again, Peter?

      If the “ecologists” had allowed programmed, planned, routine, brush burning over the last 40 years, the fuel wouldn’t exist to feed the large fires. As well, without said fuel, there would be many fewer fires in the first place.

      See: California Burning.

      All the while, those rotary bird choppers and reflective avian cookers are blessed by the ecologically anointed.

      It is truly stunning to witness the collective intelligence on display. I suppose navel gazing and drum circles ought to count for something, eh?

      140

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Gobbledygook, stop arguing out of ignorance

        116

        • #
          Kalm Keith

          Got that wrong: again.

          Gobbledygook should have come out:

          “stop iguing out of argnorance”.

          Just what can you and your mates, SS, get right.

          KK

          110

        • #
          John Westman

          Pfffft!
          To claim that the amount of fire activity; number of fires; number of hectares burnt,is a measure of so called climate change, is rubbish to the extreme.

          Even the rotten and corrupt IPCC say that there is no increase in the number of fires, nor in the areas burnt.

          We must remember that our forests have been logged and so the forests we have today are “new forests” full of young densely packed trees and will remain so until nature thins out the forest. In the meantime this young forest is full of dead and dying timber ready for the match. The resultant fire is of much greater intensity than should a mature forest burn.
          Fire control measures have changed the nature of our forests and prevented natural thinning.

          I must point out that there is no evidence of a link between an increase in a minor greenhouse gas and wildfires.

          120

        • #
          Lance

          Oh, come now, Peter. You’ve got 11 years left.

          Plenty of time for you to gain a degree in Engineering, pass your qualification exams, gain your 4 yrs of junior tutelage, pass your Licensing tests, and then be in a position to actually contribute something useful.

          Think of it as a chance to actually understand what it is you wish you knew.

          Then again, it is so very much easier to lean back and criticize the things you don’t really understand, now, isn’t it?

          Ideology does not confer any kind of practical utility or knowledge.

          So, let’s get cracking now, shall we? Take advantage of that time you have remaining.

          Become competent in a relevant field, say Electrical Power Engineering, or Thermodynamics, or turbomachinery, or materials science, or solid state physics, or dynamic systems analysis, or something that actually confers knowledge relevant to “making a difference”.

          That way, you’ll at least know what you don’t know, instead of telling those who do, what they lack.

          130

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            How about accepting that knowledge in Electrical Power Engineering as an example does not translate into other fields. And stop with the stupid 11 years claim, you know that is not what is being said.

            112

            • #
              AndyG55

              How about you substantiate some of your mindless gibberish, PF

              Your knowledge base is bottom strand on basically ever topic you type BS about.

              How about YOU accepting that zero knowledge in ANY field , makes you look like a mindless clown.

              90

        • #
          AndyG55

          “stop arguing out of ignorance”

          Says PF, who has only ever shown base-level ignorance in basically everything. :-)

          Stop your self-mockery, muppet !!

          100

        • #
          Lance

          “You can’t have your pudding if you don’t eat your meat”. Eh, Peter?

          I wonder.

          World population in 2019 is estimated at 7.7 Billion people. According to your team of “knowing ecologists”, that’s 6.7 Billion too many.

          So tell me. Who goes first? Others, yourself, or whom?
          If you truly believe this doomsday tripe, your answer ought be most illuminating.

          So let’s get on with it. Either you truly, truly, ardently, believe it, or you’re simply bloviating.

          Or not.

          Tell us all the answer.

          100

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Patricia….riddle me this, batman….

          Currently l’m in tassie.

          Ben Lomond has down forecast down to 500m. I can see the snow clearly right now from my car. My mates and I might go skiing this arfternoon.

          But if CAGW is real and global, such thing is impossible.

          Please explain.

          50

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            weather is variable, for example its 33 here on the mid north coast, explain that

            09

            • #
              Dennis

              So weather conditions are not climate change or global warming Peter, obviously.

              80

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Exactly right Dennis, Climate is what you expect and weather is what you get. Posters on this blog specialise in getting these two easily understood concepts mixed up, just like the so called “OriginalSteve” does. Or maybe he is mysterifed that it never snows in Darwin, even though it is in Tassie

                111

              • #
                AndyG55

                No evidence the global climate has changed in any way in the last 40 years.

                None that you can scientifically put down to human influence.

                You still remain a big fat BLANK .

                Australian WEATHER is so VARIABLE, isn’t it PF. ;-)

                Seems it is you that is getting that NATURAL Australian weather variability mixed up with unprovable global “climate change”

                Perpetually confused, aren’t you PF.

                Get you act together, dopey.

                61

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                So, Patricia, you have just trashed the core of the CAGW fallacy…thank you. It was only a matter of time.

                The point about the CAGW lie is that says global temperature has increased across all areas of the globe …which means it will never be cold enough to snow like it is right now in Tassie. In fact after my previous post, it snowed heavily near St Helens as we were driving down from the mountains.

                But children will never see snow if global temp goes up…so says the CAGW priests….and your coastal fires are clearly due to CAGW , and yet we can have snow in Tassie simultaneously.

                But hang on…this is not possible according to the high priests of the IPCC.

                None of what you have said makes sense.

                40

      • #
    • #
      Dennis

      Peter I wrote about Australian Aborigine’s Traditional Seasonal Burning to manage the bushland a week ago.

      The Mayor of Mid Coast Council NSW said yesterday on local radio that he had been talking to an elderly Australian Aborigine about the fires now underway and that man said the Koala deaths could have been far fewer if season burning that was practised for tens of thousands of years before white settlement in 1788 was still carried out today.

      Before the Mayor could continue to radio presenter shot back that the Council and the Greens are to blame for the lack of burning off activities. The Mayor changed the subject.

      Speak to the volunteer fire fighters and hear how they are far too often denied permits to carry out controlled burning by councils.

      So many dead Koala around Port Macquarie, blame the Greens for their deaths.

      110

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        I see, folklore is to believed over science. I’ll say it again – area’s are burning that have not burnt previously.

        013

        • #
          Dennis

          Peter maybe you need to do some research, and maybe work backwards starting with the traditional seasonal burning now adopted in the WA Kimberleys and NT Kakadu National Park using indigenous Rangers and other Rangers using modern equipment including helicopters.

          But based on the now tens of thousands of years of Australian Aborigine self preservation and dreamtime spiritual beliefs tradition.

          Which of course they developed observing nature and natural fires that enabled regeneration of vegetation and made the tribal lands safer for the occupants.

          100

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            Folklore, proof is what is required

            011

            • #
              AndyG55

              “proof is what is required”

              Then why do you still “BELIEVE” in the AGW fantasy?

              Make up your warped, twisted, cognitively malfunctioning little mind, PF !!

              80

            • #
              PeterW

              The proof is in the diaries and observations of early European explorers and settlers. In history, first-person observer reports are considered primary sources and as good as it gets. It is a lie to call such sources “folklore”.
              I became a GW sceptic when I realised the your side of the debate was lying, denying and deleting primary sources from the historical record.

              The climate has always varied. It has been hotter, colder, drier and wetter in the past…….

              It is in the work of anthropologists and paleobotanists….. These are secondary sources, but still offer higher levels of proof than computer models that cannot account for known natural phenomena or predict current observations.. Which makes you a hypocrite for demanding levels of proof that you refuse to offer, yourself.

              To reiterate. EVERY major inquiry into Australian bushfires has concluded that (a) Fuel Management Burning is an effective strategy for the reduction of Fire size, lethality and intensity.
              (b) We should do more of it.
              Those conclusions were not based on “folklore”, but on research carried out by fire scientists (including those in the CSIRO) and the evidence provided by foresters, agencies and individuals with high levels of experience and plenty of skin in the game.

              30

          • #
            Brian

            Actually Dennis they didn’t. Over tens of thousands of years the Aboriginals used fire to convert forest to plains for hunting. By doing this they changed the ecology and gave rise to the first ever man made climate change, influencing the onset and strength of the wet seasons. The result was an ecosystem across much of the continent that has adapted to need fires. The plants and trees that couldn’t adapt died. Potentially it was this destruction of edible vegetation as well as hunting that saw the extinction of the megafauna. The aboriginals did not observe nature and live in harmony with it. They changed it.

            10

        • #
          AndyG55

          ” believed over science.”

          That is YOUR meme, PF

          Belief of a cult religion with ZERO SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE of its very foundations.

          Folklore and fantasy.. the PF way.

          110

        • #
          robert rosicka

          Seen the latest news footage of some of the fires and with that amount of fuel load ready to burn I’d be moving .
          Why wasn’t the area cleared of fuel loads thru planned burns ?

          80

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            Well Robert, your pal Andy froths about how the extra CO2 stimulates growth, that must be the answer, don’t you agree?

            010

            • #
              AndyG55

              NO evidence that atmospheric CO2 does anything except promote plant growth, is there PF.

              Unburnt, built-up fuel loads caused by greenie agendas.

              That is the REAL problem.

              And the way you are carrying, its pretty obvious that you KNOW that is the case.

              You always dig deeper and deeper into your own BS whenever you know you are wrong.

              Its your one redeeming trait.. for its clown quality.

              71

        • #
          AndyG55

          Yet you can provide NONE for warming by atmospheric CO2

          You BELIEVE in a FANTASY, PF

          Yes, PROOF is what is required.

          “area’s are burning that have not burnt previously”

          WHAT !! not even hazard reduction burns. !!!

          There are LOTS of places in Australia that haven’t burnt for decades and decades.

          But they could have.

          Its called probability and CHANCE, PF.

          81

        • #
          John Westman

          Another example of rubbish from a “climate change” believer. You claim that areas are burning that have never burnt before.
          PF, as an ex fire fighter I can show you areas that were burnt 50+ years ago that have not burnt since.
          The logic of this, according to PF, is that “climate change” has caused a reduction in fires.
          Poor PF is way up the pole on his own petard

          30

  • #
    Ruairi

    The doomers are down and distraught,
    By the warmist tall tale that they bought,
    The great climate con,
    Which they hope to bring on,
    In believing it’s worse than they thought.

    211

  • #
    TdeF

    This is the end game. 31 years of predictions of Armageddon and Bangladesh with 90 million people at risk half a meter above sea level is fine. 400 Million Indians are not dying of thirst, as so confidently predicted by the world class peer reviewed science of the IPCC was alleged to be a typographical error. The Polar bears are fine and booming. Renewables are the unreliable, non commandable and vastly expensive replaceables we expected and electric cars are a very expensive upper middle class joke putting out more CO2 than petrol cars and besides, CO2 is killing no one.

    In fact the CO2 increase is really good news for Greening the planet, vast increases in food production with record levels and humans like it hot, not that 1C makes much of a difference to anything except floating ice at the North Pole. The Maldives are building new airports to cope with a tourist boom because they are at sea level. Besides, the CO2 increase is demonstrably not anyone’s fault. It’s what happens when you even slightly heat an ocean stuffed with highly soluble CO2. The idea that it’s our doing is just opportunistic deceit.

    The very idea that 1C is enough to produce species extinction when not a person or animal or insect can even feel a difference of 1C is just ridiculous.
    I can see the ants rolling on their backs in laughter. 1C? In my best John McEnroe voice, you can’t be serious?

    It’s all falling apart. So they are sending in the clowns with the sad faces. And the loonies with extreme makeup and silly dancing.

    181

    • #
      David Maddison

      Meanwhile Australia is dying due to high energy prices, staggering amounts of money wasted on windmills and solar subsidy farms and unused desal plants and a failure to invest in dams for farmers because Tim Flannery convinced the government it would never rain again and that Australia was supposedly unsuited for agriculture.

      190

      • #
        TdeF

        All you need for agriculture is warmth, water, CO2 and sunshine. And the Greens deny us the water. It’s us versus the planet, not Flannery’s Gaia caring for the humans. Ignorant and dangerous fantasist and science nong.

        We and all living things all run on sunshine captured by photosynthesis as carbohydrates, hydrated CO2. Except for a few microbes which survive on a sulfur cycle near subsea vents. Otherwise we all burn carbohydrates and turn them back into CO2 and H2O and energy.

        In the last 50 years we have built no dams. Where are the pipe, the concrete channels, the spillways, the storage, the terraforming. Sure, individual farmers have built their own ‘turkey nests’ but what is being done on a national scale. The Ancient Nabateans and the Iraqis and Egyptians had a better understanding of the overriding importance of water in a dry country than our governments.

        And with advisers like Kangaroo boy, how can we improve this country. And the traditional custodians burned it to the ground. The Greens are worse.

        150

        • #
          David Maddison

          On the subject of agriculture, here is an interesting factoid I read.

          The O2 a plant releases in the process of photosynthesis comes not from CO2 it ingests but from H2O it takes up via the roots.

          80

          • #
            TdeF

            Interesting, but puzzling. How would anyone know that? Most commonly written as producing sugar it is 6CO2 + 6H2O → C6H12O6 + 6O2 it would take tagging of the Oxygen molecules to determine which oxygens were used.

            31

            • #
              Graeme No.3

              TdeF:

              Don’t you realise that there are 2 sorts of CO2, the harmless NATURAL ones and the Mean, Dangerous, Catastrophic Heat producing, Man-Made molecules? I am not sure how anyone can tell the difference (especially real scientists) but many Gullibles can. e.g. Saint Greta can see CO2 molecules so must know, while many gullibles probably believe she can.

              There are various natural chemicals (miscalled Drugs) which enable believers to see what others don’t.

              60

            • #
              Kalm Keith

              Miss hit. See green

              30

  • #
    David Maddison

    There is a meme for Leftists that goes “Jump against Trump”. (I.e. jump off a building to show your disapproval of Trump.)

    See:
    https://me.me/i/jumpagainst-trum-we-will-not-be-ignored-rhp-ready-set-jump-show-14739614

    These losers should be encouraged to do same.

    110

    • #
      Travis T. Jones

      Al-Baghdadi and Trump’s Syrian Chessboard -
      The Al-Baghdadi assassination and related events demonstrate that Trump is not flying blind in Syria.

      “In his announcement of Baghdadi’s death on Sunday, Trump unceremoniously abandoned his predecessors’ strategy of sucking up to jihadists.

      Unlike Obama, who went to great lengths to talk about the respect US forces who killed Osama bin Laden accorded the terrorist mass-murderer’s body, “in accordance with Islamic practice,” Trump mocked Baghdadi, the murdering, raping, slaving “caliph.”

      Baghdadi, Trump said, died “like a dog, like a coward.”

      Baghdadi died, Trump said, “whimpering and crying.”

      Then there is Russia.

      The American presence along the border didn’t harm Russia. It helped Russia.
      It freed Russian President Vladimir Putin from having to deal with Turkey.
      Now that the Americans have left the border zone, Turkish President Recep Erdogan is Putin’s problem.

      The al-Baghdadi assassination and related events demonstrate that Trump is not flying blind in Syria.
      He is implementing a multifaceted set of policies that are based on the strengths, weaknesses and priorities of the various actors on a ground in ways that advance US interests at the expense of its foes and to the benefit of its allies.

      more at link: https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2019/11/al-baghdadi-and-trumps-syrian-chessboard-caroline-glick/

      90

  • #
    Rod McLean

    A good laugh. Thanks Jo.

    60

  • #
    RickWill

    Has anyone here tried the NoTrickZone link today? If so, did it bring up the site or redirect?

    40

    • #
      Chris

      I tried it late last night and the site tried to redirect me. My computer flashed the virus sign at me.

      40

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      Yes the No Tricks Zone web site has definitely been hacked
      I got redirected to some virus detection site
      I had never heard of..

      As the science does not support their Global Warming scare campaign
      Their only option is to prevent people seeing the truth.
      just as with KensKingdom earlier this week.

      50

    • #
      Serp

      Yep. Briefly pops up home page and then attempts redirection which Firefox blocks so one is left with a blank page at ticker dot trasnaltemyrecords dot com

      10

  • #
    TdeF

    Wonderful report on the depressed opposition, Labor in the UK (and Australia and Democrats in the US, all ) pushing Climate change and selling the story of the terrible conservatives and Climate Extinction.

    A Labor/Democrat parody by Michael Deacon, the Telegraph, UK.

    “Happy birthday? Happy for some, maybe. Happy for the Tories and their billionaire friends. But not happy for ordinary workers and their families. Did you know that, under this cruel Tory(Johnson/Trump/Morrison) Government, there are children in this country who are having to wait up to 12 months for their next birthday to come round? That’s why we’re announcing today that the next Labour government will put right this historic wrong – and give every child in Britain a minimum of three birthdays, every single year. Vote Labour. It’s time for real change.”

    60

  • #

    The AGW, Climate Change/Emergency cult has never been a grassroots movement. It is and always has been a movement of the elites justifying their preferred lifestyles, imposing their new morality/protecting/saving the plannet, and, in the process, allowing them unprecedented control over others. The AGW, Climate Change/Emergency cult came about because the elites captured the coercive power of the State and used it for their personal and ideological interests. The state, together with elite institutions of society, support the AGW, Climate Change/Emergency cult with a continual flow of propaganda.

    70

  • #
    pat

    theirABC has a new “Big Idea” – CAGW. impossible to summarise how dreadful it is, as Paul Barclay pretends in the intro that is about whether or not XR will alienate the public with their tactics.
    no mention of anti-CAGW policy protests – Yellow Vests or Chile, for example.
    claims XR has a broad following, but also says XR is too white & hasn’t attracted rural folk or conservatives. featured speakers tell the story.
    ANU Canberra had the same event – Gunningham & others – back in July, a mere 7 months after XR began their stunts; and it was also at Uni of Melbourne on 31 Oct. haven’t checked other Unis:

    AUDIO: 54min05sec: 7 Nov: ABC Big Ideas: Will Extinction Rebellion succeed where others have failed?
    Presenter: Paul Barclay
    Twenty years of climate change campaigning has been a failure.
    Extinction Rebellion says civil disobedience is the answer.
    So is it time to take to the streets?
    Averting Climate Catastrophe Recorded 17 October 2019 University of Tasmania
    Speakers
    ***Professor Neil Gunningham- ANU School of Regulation and Global Governance
    Nicole Sommer- CEO Environmental Defenders Office Tasmania
    ***Anna Reynolds- Lord Mayor of Hobart
    https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/bigideas/will-extinction-rebellion-succeed-where-others-have-failed/11676668

    PIC/BIO: ANU: ***Professor Neil Gunningham, School of Regulation and Global Governance
    http://regnet.anu.edu.au/our-people/academic/neil-gunningham

    30 Jul: ABC: Sydney residents fight against Berrys Bay dry dock to save million-dollar harbour views
    By Liv Casben
    PIC: ***Professor Neil Gunningham stands on his balcony overlooking Berrys Bay. (ABC News: Liv Casben)
    Professor Gunningham is one of many residents in the surrounding area opposing a three-storey floating dry dock being moored in the bay, arguing it simply does not belong…
    The view was the main reason he and his wife bought their McMahons Point apartment seven years ago but they are now concerned if North Sydney Planning panel gives the dry dock the go-ahead, the value of their property will be decimated.
    “It’s a great big piece of metal, it has no visual interest it is just literally a steel box, and if you add that to the odour, the noise, the toxic substances … that’s a lot to put up with,” Professor Gunningham said.

    The Save Berrys Bay group have described the dry dock as an “ugly eyesore” which is incompatible with NSW’s most valuable natural asset, the Harbour…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-30/sydney-residents-fear-they-will-lose-million-dollar-harbour-view/11349864

    FutureCitiesSummit: Speaker: ***Anna Reynolds, Lord Mayor, City of Hobart
    She has had a diverse and interesting career, including establishing a regional community legal centre based in Cairns; running the Australian Conservation Foundation’s Parliamentary Liaison Office and Deputy Director of WWF International’s Global Climate Change Program.
    In 2009, Anna took up a role as International Advisor for Senator Bob Brown where she researched and wrote policy on a wide range of international issues…

    AnnaReynolds.org
    ACTION 2019 – 2022
    We are in a state of climate emergency and we need to restore a safe climate, in order to avoid dramatic and negative impacts in Hobart and around the world…
    In this term of Council I will push for:
    ◦Hobart to set an ambitious city-wide target to be Carbon Neutral by 2030, and
    ◦A target to double solar installations in Hobart over the next five years.
    To meet the solar target I will advocate for a Solar Saver program to help Hobart residents, businesses and organisations to install solar panels. Council will pay the upfront cost for the system, and you (or your landlord) pay it off over ten years, interest free…
    I played an active role in the decision taken in 2017 for the divestment of Hobart City Council’s funds away from fossil fuels…
    I have a long history of work in climate change policy nationally and internationally.
    ***I was the founder of the Climate Action Network Australia in 1998 and the Deputy Director of WWF International’s global climate program from 2004 – 2007.

    20

    • #
      AndyG55

      Of course, putting solar on Hobart roofs will have ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT on CO2 emissions

      Hobart operates off hydro power.

      Will give them more to sell to Dan in Vic, though

      Its all about the MONEY !!!

      60

      • #
        Dennis

        Recently I was arguing against solar from a cost benefit viewpoint and was attacked by a solar fan, and then the fan gave the game away, and claimed I was trying to undermine his wife’s business.

        lol

        70

    • #
      pat

      a taste for those who can’t bear to listen to the ABC audio:

      31 Oct: Uni of Melbourne: Averting Climate Catastrophe: Extinction Rebellion, Business & People Power
      We have a brief window in which to act on climate change, and to do so with enough force, commitment and ambition to achieve a rapid decarbonisation of the global economy…

      Part of the answer may lie in events in London in April, where, under the banner of the Extinction Rebellion, thousands of people committed acts of civil disobedience, seriously disrupting the capital for 10 days.
      ***Media attention to climate change soared and a climate emergency motion was passed by Parliament.

      This public lecture examines Extinction Rebellion’s strategy, its emphasis on non-violent civil disobedience and its impact before asking: what, beyond grassroots politics, would a transformational movement built around climate change involve? Must pressure be brought to bear on recalcitrant governments from many quarters: not just from grassroots activist groups but from business, financial markets, scientists, school children, faith groups, cities and multiple others?…

      Perhaps, as groups like Extinction Rebellion gain momentum, and join with others, a tipping point will be reached, generating rapid and far reaching changes across the economic and social system…
      About the presenter: Neil Gunningham…ETC
      This event is co-hosted with the Australian-German Climate and Energy College.
      https://sustainable.unimelb.edu.au/past-events/averting-climate-catastrophe-extinction-rebellion,-business-and-people-power

      ANU, Canberra: Averting Climate Catastrophe: Extinction Rebellion, Business & People Power
      This event will consist of a presentation by Professor Neil Gunningham, ANU School of Regulation and Global Governance (REGNET) followed by panel discussion and audience Q&A.
      Mr Lachlan James will provide perspectives from the business sector.
      (Lachlan James has a broad-ranging background in venture capital, entrepreneurship, renewable energy, finance and government policy)

      Assoc Prof Carolyn Hendriks, Crawford School of Public Policy, ANU will discuss other forms of community engagement to address climate change.
      https://www.anu.edu.au/events/averting-climate-catastrophe-extinction-rebellion-business-people-power

      20

    • #
      Serp

      If only blackface hadn’t been proscribed there would have been a simple workaround for the condition that “XR is too white”; leftard simpletons, as so often, hoist on their own petard.

      10

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    Forget a solar panel induced stable climate, South Australia is excused marked for extinction …

    Australia Flicks Switch on First Gas Power Plant in 7 Years

    “The A$295 million ($204 million) facility in South Australia has 210 megawatts of capacity and will help supplement renewables, which regularly meet more than 50% of the state’s power demand, the company said in a statement. The plant is capable of reaching full capacity within 5 minutes, AGL said.”

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-11-04/australia-flicks-switch-on-first-new-power-station-in-7-years

    The myth of clean gas’: Report attacks petroleum industry messaging
    The report examines industry rhetoric that Australia’s gas exports helps the world get off coal.
    And in challenging this, it challenges LNG’s social licence.

    https://www.smh.com.au/national/the-myth-of-clean-gas-report-attacks-petroleum-industry-messaging-20191106-p5383n.html

    40

    • #

      A new gas fired power plant. So South Australia gives in to CO2 emissions then, for the sake of reliable power.

      Now, think of what has happened in the U.S. over the last ten years, in just ten years mind you.

      They have replaced coal fired power. The AVERAGE age of the whole coal fired power fleet in the US barely 12 years ago was a couple of Months less than ….. 50 years. So, basically, all coal fired power in the U.S. was all but time expired.

      So, what they did was to set about replacing them all, all those ancient old clunkers.

      Luckily, due to the recent availability of Natural Gas and the approval to actually extract it, they could replace those old coal fired plants with new natural gas fired plants.

      So, over just the last ten years alone, 610TWH of coal fired power has been shut down. For perspective that’s three times the yearly power generation for Australia, from every source.

      In that same time, 560TWH of natural new gas fired power has been added, so replacement of 92% of fossil fuel burning power with, umm, fossil fuel burning power.

      Those new emissions are less than the old emissions from the old tech coal fired power, but, it’s still CO2 emitting power, and it has a life span of 50 years.

      So at least 50 more years of CO2 emissions.

      Somebody, (well a pretty large number of somebodies) way way way up near the top of the power plant approval tree obviously don’t think that CO2 is causing Climate Change, otherwise they would not have approved so many of these new gas fired power plants.

      Tony.

      100

    • #

      Hey, wait a minute here! That can’t be right, surely not.

      This new gas fired plant cost $295 Million. It has a Nameplate of 210MW

      Macarthur Wind has a Nameplate of 420MW, and at its 30% Capacity Factor, that’s a year round average of 125MW. It cost, umm, $1.2 BILLION

      The AEMO all of a sudden needs an extra 210MW of power. They ring up this new gas plant and the reply is that it will be on stream in five minutes.

      Or, they could ring up Macarthur and the reply from there is that sorry, we have to wait for the wind to pick up for that. This High Pressure weather system may be gone in a day or two, and we’ll see what we can do then.

      Gas fired plant – $295 Million for 210MW

      Macarthur Wind – $1.2 Billion for 420MW 125MW.

      Yep!

      Renewables are cheaper than fossil fuel plants eh!

      Tony.

      140

      • #
        robert rosicka

        Tony what’s going on with the price of electricity in south Australia at the moment ? Crazy negative prices .

        70

        • #
          AndyG55

          Its very windy nice temperature day across all of SE Australia at the moment.

          They are trying to dump electricity and no-one needs it.

          60

        • #

          Please don’t get me started on how the renewables sector is gaming the price structure for electrical power generation and in getting away with it, then everyone thinks they can get away with it.

          Think about it.

          If the renewables can deliver their power for MINUS $900 per MegaWattHour, well, why go on Tony. They can’t.

          Incidentally those large negative (and positive) spikes you see are just that. Wholesale spikes. NO ONE EVER gets paid minus $900 per MWH or Positive $44Million whatever per MWH. It all evens out on the swings and roundabouts.

          Look at the average price tables and try and find ANY negative price there.

          Tony.

          90

          • #
            robert rosicka

            Wouldn’t matter anyway looks like AEMO steps in and saves the day by wiping the price .

            AEMO ELECTRICITY MARKET NOTICE

            Issued by Australian Energy Market Operator Ltd at 1500 hrs on 8 November 2019

            PRICES ARE NOW CONFIRMED for dispatch interval 08-Nov-2019 14:40.

            In accordance with Market Notice 71034 AEMO has reviewed this dispatch interval and determined that:
            - Manifestly Incorrect Inputs did not apply

            Prices remain unchanged.

            This is an AEMO autogenerated Market Notice.

            10

  • #
    neil

    Doomsday cults, conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxers etc are all the same, end of the millennium, 2012, Armageddon, the grassy knoll, government cover ups, global extinction. Every fundamentalist Christian for the past 2000 years has believed they will see the second coming of Christ in their lifetime. There is a doomsday prediction for virtually every day to the end of the century. What they all have in common are members who are insecure little people who feel they have no control over their lives so they find a cause that makes them feel special because they know something nobody else does. Whether their cause is logical or not is irrelevant to them because they believe it to be true and any logical argument put to them is dismissed because others just don’t get it.
    I’m curious what happens to these people when they doomsday fails to materialise, do they just pick another random day? Extend their tipping point another decade? How did the millennial and 2012 doomsdayers survive the continuation of the world as usual?

    20

  • #
    robert rosicka

    OT but renewables are cheaper , the current price in SA is -$990 mw

    20

    • #
      Lance

      Cheaper than what, and under what circumstances?

      Please explain.

      30

    • #
      Lance

      Coal cost per MWH ranges from USD 6 to 29 from 1987 to 2016. That would seem to be a bit less than $990.

      https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/coal-prices?time=1987..2016

      30

    • #
      robert rosicka

      Sorry Lance my minus sign jumped a line , what I’m saying is negative $990 and at the moment negative $400 .
      How much longer can they afford to pay to dump their electricity into the grid at those prices without going broke .

      50

      • #
        robert rosicka

        Spoke too soon back down to negative -$900 again for SA .

        20

      • #
        Lance

        Now that makes a good bit of sense.

        Carry on the Good Fight, Mr. Robert. :)

        40

      • #
        AndyG55

        “pay to dump their electricity into the grid at those prices without going broke”

        The government will cover it. ;-)

        40

      • #
        RickWill

        The wind generators are trying to tread a fine line between sending lots of power out at a positive price while avoiding sending any power out at negative price. Actual demand in the SA market is down to 679MW at midday today and the wind capacity is 2142MW so it does not take much wind to exceed the demand. On Saturday the demand is forecast to be under 500MW. So 2142MW of potential capacity fighting for 500MW of load – getting tough for wind to make money in the SA market. If they could not send power to Victoria they would be going out the back door fast.

        Wind output was being limited from 7pm last night to 6am this morning. It was clear to generators through that time that there would be a surplus of wind output if not constrained so bidding was under control. Then the demand collapses as the rooftop solar fires up and the fine line is too narrow so the end up paying to send out.

        The problem in getting the pre-dispatch close to actual is the inability to accurately forecast the wind, and, to lesser degree, the sun – who could have predicted that would be a problem!

        The 4X ratio of wind capacity in SA to demand is still not enough to get anywhere near supplying 100% of that demand reliably without massive storage.

        60

  • #
    TdeF

    I would just like to let everyone know that I am surviving this rapid warming and rapid sea level rise and the demise of the polar bears. If anything it has been a cold few years in Melbourne, much colder than I remember especially in summer. Yesterday at the Oaks Day races, it was freezing. Many were on the verge of extinction. You could feel it. Only champagne kept them alive.

    So when is this extinction going to start? I know a 1C increase in temperature would be very welcome at the moment and it would be interesting to know how this is going to wipe out so many species, including humans. Crops are at record levels, the planet is greening rapidly and people are on holidays all over the world and starvation is at a world minimum. India has tripled its population from the 1970s and Bangladesh, a mere 0.5 metres above sea level seems fine. None of the 164 million Bangladeshis have reported mass drownings and the Maldives are building lots of new airports. Although the government of tropical Bangladesh two years ago had to hand out hundreds of thousands of blankets to prevent people dying of hypothermia with man made Global Warming.

    We really need to know more about how this mass extinction works, because it must be extremely sneaky stuff. I will go for a walk later and see if I can spot anyone going extinct. Maybe some neighbours? Or the occasional dog?

    80

    • #
      TdeF

      Then you get people who rightly wonder why they were put on the planet. I wonder too sometimes. It is quite reasonable for them to think they are surplus to requirements and will be the first to become extinct because they are absolutely useless. They have to protest something and becoming extinct is a real threat. It’s really nice of society to put up with their senseless protests too. It makes them feel useful and they can head off to McDonalds with a new sense of purpose.

      50

  • #
    Zane

    There are so many clueless fools out there who fall for every piece of climate schtick. Greenpeace has spent over $500 million on its climate campaign. USD. That buys a lot of packaged paranoia. Many swallow it whole.

    90

    • #
      Dennis

      It is also interesting to note how so many lazy journalists accept media releases and rewrite the contents for publication, with their editor’s approval of course.

      100

  • #
    Steve of Cornubia

    Of course these fatalists have to be ejected from the AGW movement, because they threaten the purpose and real objectives of so-called ‘believers’, which is not first and foremost to fix the weather but to introduce socialism using their trojan horse – de-carbonisation.

    If this fatalist approach were to spread, emissions reduction would cease and implementation of the New World Order would be stopped in its tracks.

    50

  • #
    STJOHNOFGRAFTON

    These doomsday galoots have too much idle time. They don’t know what to do next so they invent insoluble, imaginary problems to occupy their thoughts and give purpose to their disgruntled lives. That’s not living!

    Right now i’m relaxing with a hard earned G & T after an exciting afternoon in the blazing heat and smoke keeping our country property and animals safe from local out of control bush fires.

    Not doomsday, but Australian climate reality.

    Now that’s living!

    90

  • #
    pat

    the ABC TripeJ Hack writer, James Purtill, appears to see no problem with Facebook hosting these doomsters, yet -

    31 Oct: ABC: Twitter has banned political ads. Why won’t Facebook
    By James Purtill
    Less than 0.5 per cent of Facebook’s revenue next year will come from political ads, Zuckerberg said.
    However, ditching political ads would probably cost Facebook political capital at a time when it’s trying to secure US regulatory approval for its planned digital currency, Libra.

    It would open it up to criticism from conservatives who claim ‘liberal bias’ baked into the feed algorithm is effectively depriving them of their right to free speech, (even though Donald Trump was last year’s third top political ad spender on Facebook).
    The conservative reaction to Twitter’s ad ban announcement this week would only confirm Facebook’s concerns here. Brad Parscale, the campaign manager of President Donald Trump’s 2020 re-election team, called the ban a “very dumb decision”, while Matt Shupe, a Republican political strategist, called Twitter’s decision “incredibly dumb.”

    Democrats, meanwhile, mostly praised the move by Twitter. “I applaud Twitter’s decision to ban political ads,” Presidential candidate Andrew Yang said.
    “It’s the rare triumph of the public good over the bottom line.
    “I hope Facebook follows suit or at least verifies and stands by the accuracy of political ads on its platform.”…

    To complicate matters further, not everyone at Facebook agrees with its approach. Hundreds of employees sent a letter to Zuckerberg that was published in the New York Times this week, arguing “Free speech and paid speech are not the same thing.”…

    In September, Facebook refused to take down an ad run by Donald Trump’s re-election campaign that made false claims about former Vice President Joe Biden, his son Hunter Biden, and their activities in the Ukraine…

    As University of Queensland law professor Graeme Orr noted, defining political speech would be difficult for any social media company.
    “There is a big question about the fuzzy boundaries of what is social, religious or general moral conversations versus what is political,” he said.
    https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/twitter-has-banned-political-ads.-why-wont-facebook/11660096

    30

    • #
      pat

      more evidence of Purtill’s politics. not only does theirABC ignore their charter to provide balance, they appear to be part of the campaign to destroy conservative opinion:

      6 Sept ABC TripleJ Hack: ‘Mad Witches’ vs Alan Jones: Four weeks in, data shows boycott is hurting 2GB
      by James Purtill
      Could this finally be the end of Jones – one of the most powerful men in Australian public life?…
      The contest is not only about the career of an ageing radio kingpin, but about community activism versus entrenched power…

      On one side is a rag-tag organisation of mostly anonymous members of the public who collaborate through Facebook and Twitter, and on the other is a man on a $4 million a year contract who is brazenly courted by politicians, aware of his influence over a syndicated audience of millions…

      The campaign is being led by the social media activist organisation Mad F**ing Witches – similar to the Sleeping Giants, which Hack reported on last year (LINK)….
      https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/alan-jones-boycott-data-shows-drop-in-ads-for-2gb/11487166

      also noted from the comments to Purtill’s piece posted by Jo:

      FROM COMMENTS:
      Alison Lockwood: Great article James! Really covers the essentials – especially the psychology. Would make a great talk back topic on JJJ.

      Glenn (‘solastalgia’?) Albrecht: The third option is to get out of the Anthropocene and to enter the Symbiocene. It is detailed in my new book ‘Earth Emotions’, but a short version can be found here LINK

      Sanjeev Sabhlok: It would be good if people read IPCC’s own scientific assessments which are absolutely benign, and understand the Earth’s geology (we are living in an Ice Age, or rather a Icehouse with ice caps, which is extremely rare in global history), and IPCC’s economic assessment, which says the worst that will happen is that people in a hundred years will be 2 per cent less rich than they would have otherwise been. And IPCC’s own reports that say there is no evidence of increased extreme events. And then look at the performance of the hundred (why do they have a hundred?) climate models, which have badly over-exaggerated.
      The Earth has been warming slightly for a few hundred years now, after the Little Ice Age. Enjoy the warmth before it chills again.

      40

      • #
        pat

        Purtill immediately after Trump won in 2016? no loser’s consent from him:

        10 Nov: ABC TripleJ Hack: How one million young people staying home elected Donald Trump
        By James Purtill
        The day after the election, the dawn of the Trump era, saw thousands protesting in American cities, chanting “not my President”.
        The post-election narrative has been that old white people voted for Donald J Trump and the rest of the country voted for Hillary R Clinton, and this is broadly true…

        According to Brinley, a 23-year-old who was protesting Trump’s victory in New York, in front of Trump Tower, a lot of young people who supported Clinton didn’t bother voting because Trump seemed so absurd, and the polls had predicted Hillary would win…
        https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/one-million-young-people-staying-home-elected-donald-trump/8014712

        7 Nov: CNBC: Mike Bloomberg is preparing to enter the Democratic presidential primary
        by Mike Calia & Brian Schwartz
        Mike Bloomberg, the billionaire former mayor of New York, is preparing to enter the Democratic presidential primary, according to NBC News, which cited a Bloomberg advisor.
        The move didn’t necessarily mean Bloomberg, 77, was announcing a campaign, a source close to Bloomberg told NBC News. Rather, this source said, he’s doing this to keep his options open. Bloomberg is “troubled” by what he has seen in the Democratic field, the source added…

        Howard Wolfson, a top advisor to Bloomberg, released a statement acknowledging Bloomberg’s concern with the state of the race:
        “Mike believes that Donald Trump represents an unprecedented threat to our nation.”…
        “We now need to finish the job and ensure that Trump is defeated — but Mike is increasingly concerned that the current field of candidates is not well positioned to do that.”…

        There is already a billionaire in the Democratic primary, Tom Steyer, and he has yet to catch on with voters despite spending tons of money to try to break through. On Thursday, a Steyer aide apologized following an Associated Press report saying he had privately offered local Iowa politicians campaign contributions in exchange for their endorsements…
        https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/07/mike-bloomberg-prepares-to-enter-at-least-one-democratic-primary-report.html

        how many CNN hacks does it take to report this?

        8 Nov: CNN: Michael Bloomberg expected to file for Alabama 2020 primary
        By Dan Merica, Kate Sullivan and Cristina Alesci; CNN’s Jeff Zeleny and Pamela Brown contributed to this report.
        A CNN/Des Moines Register poll in March found that Bloomberg was one of the least popular candidates considering running for the Democratic nomination. The poll found 27% of Democratic likely caucusgoers viewed him favorably, compared with 38% who had an unfavorable view…

        7 Nov: Fox Business: Trump economy is really experiencing a middle-class boom — this data doesn’t lie
        Op-ed by Steve Moore (senior economist, Heritage Foundation)
        I recently wrote op-eds that ran in the Wall Street Journal and on these pages that showed median household incomes under Donald Trump have soared from $61,000 to an all-time high of $66,000 in less than three years into the Trump presidency. This is tremendous news and documents substantial middle-class prosperity in Trump’s first three years in office.
        The $5,003 rise in middle-class incomes is especially impressive given that incomes only rose by $1,200 in the seven years under Obama — after the recession ended.

        If the media, liberal think tanks and Democrats in Congress were truly concerned about the economic well-being of “hard-working families,” as Elizabeth Warren likes to say, they would have cheered to the rafters this amazing news of rising incomes for nearly all groups.
        Instead, the left has chosen to either ignore this story altogether or to denounce these findings, which come from the gold standard of economic data, the U.S. Census Bureau…READ ON
        https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/steve-moore-trump-economy-is-really-experiencing-a-middle-class-boom-this-data-doesnt-lie

        10

  • #
  • #
  • #
  • #
    Eugene S Conlin

    I don’t know – doesn’t

    For people who have accepted that HUMAN EXTINCTION IS INEVITABLE IN THE NEAR TERM

    suggest that it is not inevitable in the long term – an “on the third day humanity arose” event?

    10

  • #
    pat

    6 Nov: UK Sun: WOKE OF THE WORLDS BBC bosses have turned sci-fi novel War of the Worlds into a politically correct ‘woke’ drama
    by Rod McPhee, Senior Bizarre Reporter
    A NEW politically correct BBC version of The War of the Worlds attacks religion and the British Empire and highlights climate change…

    Peter Harness, who adapted the three-parter, said its vision of Earth’s environment wrecked was an exaggeration of the 1897 Martian invasion novel with modern “resonances”…
    As well as attacking religion and the British Empire, writers have created a new female lead even though she’s barely mentioned in HG Wells’s original novel…

    FROM COMMENTS:
    Ste Wilson: Why the hell should we have to pay for a TV licence now with the crap the BBC produces now.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/10293190/pc-bbc-hg-wells-woke-drama/

    why the hell should Aussie taxpayers have to pay for theirABC to produce this rubbish?

    AUDIO: 28min27sec: 3 Nov: ABC The Philospher’s Zone: Philosophy in the wake of Empire pt. 1: The white way to think
    Presenter: David Rutledge
    This week – first in a five-part series – we look at racism and the unfortunate legacy of Immanuel Kant, who believed the non-white races were incapable of philosophical reflection…
    Supporting Information
    Western philosophy is racist – Aeon essay by Bryan Van Norden
    Guests:
    ***Bryan van Norden, Kwan Im Thong Hood Cho Temple Visiting Professor at Yale-NUS College, Singapore
    Chair Professor in Philosophy in the School of Philosophy at Wuhan University, China
    Serene Khader, Professor of Philosophy and Women’s and Gender Studies, CUNY Graduate Center New York

    1st of 13 COMMENTS:
    ***Bryan van Norden
    Thanks to David Rutledge for asking great interview questions!
    Here are some additional articles of relevance to this interview:
    Catharine Coleborne, “The Concept of Western Civilisation . Is Past Its Use-by Date” LINK The Conversation
    Serene Khader, “Why Are Poor Women Poor” LINK
    Bryan W. Van Norden, “The Best Books on World Philosophy” LINK
    https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/philosopherszone/the-white-way-to-think/11658458

    the previous episode:

    27 Oct: ABC The Philosopher’ Zone: Reparation
    When individuals and communities today still suffer the consequences of past wrongs — slavery, dispossession, invasion, the theft of land and resources — what exactly is owed to them, and who should pay?

    20

    • #
      pat

      drop Q&A altogether:

      8 Nov: B&T Magazine: ABC Pulls ‘Offensive’ Q&A Episode
      The ABC has deleted this week’s episode of Q&A from all of its platforms, after receiving audience complaints.
      In a statement released on Thursday, ABC managing director David Anderson conceded the episode, which featured Egyptian-American journalist Mona Eltahawy, could have been deemed offensive by some.
      “The ABC acknowledges that the program was provocative in regard to the language used and some of the views presented,” he said…
      “We have received audience complaints about the program, are assessing the concerns raised and will investigate whether the program met the ABC’s editorial standards.”…

      Speaking with The Australian, ABC chair Ita Buttrose said the show would not be on screens again.
      “I agree with David’s statement, which I’ve discussed with him,” she said.
      “We can’t do much more than issue the statement that we have, and we won’t be repeating the program. The plan is to take it off.”
      Communications Minister Paul Fletcher also backed the investigation.

      ***At the time of publication, the episode was still available in full on Q&A’s official YouTube channel, although it had been removed from the iView catch-up service.
      https://www.bandt.com.au/abc-3/

      above complaints were all about the panellists’ calls for violence against men, which included ***the following by Appewhite:

      4 Nov: ABC Q&A: Q&A Broadside
      FRAN KELLY: Ashton, I knew you were keen to come on on the last question, but for this one, if you don’t know, Scott Morrison is our prime minister.

      ASHTON APPLEWHITE: Yes. Well, as far as I can see, he was upset that climate change organisers were causing grievous harm to industries that are polluting the planet. I mean…

      FRAN KELLY: He was very upset. He talks about a new breed of radical activism. Is it a new breed?

      ASHTON APPLEWHITE: Ah, hardly. And, I mean, the whole discussion frame seemed almost absurd, you know? That he would accuse these young climate change protesters of being selfish by disrupting a teeny weeny bit of the corporate profits that are responsible for the plunder of the planet. Plus, if… I mean, to say that exercising our rights as consumers in a capitalist society is threatening is frankly ridiculous…
      ASHTON APPLEWHITE: And we older people need to join them…

      MONA ELTAHAWY: And World War I was violence, World War I is violence by men against men.

      FRAN KELLY: One second, let’s have Ashton.

      ***ASHTON APPLEWHITE: It’s never the ideal, it’s never the first thing to go to, but, you know, slave rebellions, I mean, there are many causes where people have resorted to violence as a way to finally break through and get heard and achieve what we need. And if that’s what it takes, that’s what it takes…
      https://www.abc.net.au/qanda/2019-04-11/11646878

      so, with an investigation underway, theirABC had Applewhite on “Life Matters” this morning!!! not listening, and it may not involve any calls for violence, but nonetheless, what a slap in the face for those who complained about Q&A:

      AUDIO: 7 Nov: ABC Life Matters: Are you accidentally ageist?
      Presented by Hilary Harper and Michael Mackenzie
      Author and activist Ashton Applewhite believed all of these messages too, until she realised where this prejudice comes from and the damage it does. Now she’s in a public fight against all forms of ageism.
      Ashton is touring Australia as a part of the EVERYAge Counts Campaign, and speaking at UNSW’s Unthinkable live series.
      Guest: Ashton Applewhite, Author of This Chair Rocks: A Manifesto Against Ageism
      https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/lifematters/are-you-accidentally-ageist/11669382

      20

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Yeah…the pathetic BBC.

      I havent bothered with the newest version of Dr Who as well due to this….a really poor over acting job thay is primarily a shill to fill the overt uk govt pc agenda.

      Nope.

      30

  • #
    sophocles

    Stop the Presses! Hold the Front Page! More Klimate Krap!

    Now Dr Susan Crockford has been fired from her adjunct professorship because she insisted on telling the facts about the Doomed Polar Bears, there’s a new crisis looming over the horizon: The Emperor Penguins in Antarctica! Someone has finally realised that Antarctica has, while not Polar Bears, some biggish, brightly coloured and more or less photogenic animals to add to the scare stories. It didn’t work for the Adelie Penguins: it was discovered that their population was still healthy and they had just moved their nesting site(s) … around the corner from where they had been.

    But Emperor Penguins! They’re bigger and more colourful so they must be dumber than the Adelies. And more Fragile. So, fresh from Canterbury University (that’s in the South Island of New Zealand — Christchurch which is a bit closer to Antarctica than Canterbury in the UK …) carefully computed by combining two computer models — so this must be really really accurate! — is the latest: The Emperor Penguins need the Paris Accord to survive beyond 2100 …

    ROTFL. These birds have survived the Medieval Warming, The Roman Warming, the Minoan Warming (3° C warmer than now), The Holocene Optimum (about 5 – 6°C warmer than now) the last Glaciation, the Eemian Warming (3°C on average warmer than the Holocene) from 100,000 years ago, and maybe the last 34 interstadials of the 3 million years of this Quaternary Ice Age, yet if No-Shite Globull Warming goes up by as much as 1.5 °C they will be in “serious” trouble …enough to go Extinct by 2100. (2100 of which geological era?) *cough*cough* AHEM*

    So, Dr Crockford, if you feel the need for YACC (Yet Another Cause Celebre) there’s an opening near the South Pole! (Relatively speaking, that is). Or, we could send BS Pete with his shovel (for putting out burning bunnies) and his Climate Change down there to look after them. They should get on well together…

    Can that research team have their PhDs withdrawn? Cancelled? Annulled? Poor little kiddies. They’re obviously not on this planet!
    Not to be telling such bed-time stories as that!

    Well.

    20

  • #

    I read the entire IPCC AR4 report several years ago and it made me a complete skeptic of dangerous climate change and global warming.
    I decided a few days ago to study the AR5 report to see if there was any more convincing evidence of real danger. I am even more firmly in the skeptic camp after getting through about half of it. I will continue reading for the laughs. It is mostly medium confidence predictions of what might happen if something else happens. In other words their are not even a realistic “maybe” amongst the statements and the only germ of truth is that the planet has perhaps warmed a bit recently and that sea levels have risen a bit and are almost certain to continue to rise at that low rate.
    I am an old skeptic and I know cc is real, having seen it happening over the years. Weather can be extremely dangerous if precautions are not taken but only an inconvenience with sufficient preparation. Where I live temperatures dropped to minus 25 C this week. Without a warmly heated house and good clothing survival would have been impossible. My guess (as valid as the IPCC) is that we have entered a cooling trend and will likely lose a much as we have gained. I hope I am wrong.
    Believers in the end of the world remind me of this quote from George Carlin “Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”

    70

  • #
    GD

    I prefer the ‘preppers’ to the alarmists and extinction weirdos. Whether or not the preppers are crazy, at least they don’t berate the rest of us for not following their philosophy.

    In any event, if it all went crazy, I’d rather have a prepper as a friend than the headless chicken alarmists.

    20

  • #
    Another Ian

    “Meet the Doomers: Climate Worriers so Extreme Other Radicals Avoid Them”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/11/08/meet-the-doomers-climate-worriers-so-extreme-other-radicals-avoid-them/

    “h/t JoNova; What happens when climate panic turns into despair? Their fellow travellers accuse them of “climate denial”, of course.”

    20

  • #

    I left a comment at Purtill’s article:

    Climaphobia is one of the four well-known types of Overpopulation Denialism. When we project our feelings of complicity in the planet’s literal annihilation onto the odorless, invisible CO2 (carbon pollution) molecule we are letting the real evil—us—off the hook.

    The science is no longer in debate: unless we drastically and immediately reduce our numbers on this planet, people are going to start dying. I’ve been raising awareness of this iron law since the Usenet days and what’s fascinating is how it only tends to trigger denial in people who have no genetic investment in the future. To those who laugh at the science of responsible population husbandry, I politely suggest: come back to me when your youngest daughter has had twins and *then* tell me it doesn’t matter if we bequeath them a sardine-packed planet.

    I’ll let you know if they fall for it. I doubt they’re above sinking to rise to that kind of low-hanging bait.

    30

  • #

    I went in to Purtill’s post to see what’s behind the green door. Yikes! Comments like these…that’s what lies behind the green door.

    Glenn Albrecht: The third option is to get out of the Anthropocene and to enter the Symbiocene. It is detailed in my new book ‘Earth Emotions’, but a short version can be found here: https://glennaalbrecht.com/…/exiting-the-anthropocene…/

    Patricia O’Loghlen: #Glennalbrecht Just finished reading Earth Emotions today on way to Social Work conference. Loved every bit of it and beautiful references to Avatar. Congratulations! Wondering how my sector can help torpedo the Symbiocine forward. Perhaps more research that deepens green social work concept and tests it’s traditional boundaries of advocacy and practice, without getting overwhelmed by fall out of current breakdown or transition.

    20

  • #
    John F Kerrigan

    Hello All,

    I happen to be 63 years old and have fairly decent technical ability plus a catalog of life-long reference points. Forty years on from London Calling (lyrics below) and we’re still hyper-ventilating, though unfortunately not from being stage row at a late 70′s Clash performance.

    Cheers and do not forget to enjoy life….

    John (USA)

    https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/clash/londoncalling.html

    00

Leave a Reply to Earl Cancel reply

  

  

  

You can use these HTML tags

<a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>