JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Midweek Unthreaded

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Rating: 8.4/10 (28 votes cast)
Midweek Unthreaded, 8.4 out of 10 based on 28 ratings

330 comments to Midweek Unthreaded

  • #

    Now I’m just collecting the data for wind power, it’s freed up four hours a day for me thank heavens. I had to complete it though, and with one whole year’s data, I now have that as a resource, and I was surprised just how close all my manually collected and collated data was to the same data at other sources, all of those well funded by the taxpayer, so worked out with computer programs, as opposed to my time consuming manual collection.

    I’m doing just the data for wind power now because that’s where the most disinformation comes from in the wider reporting on wind power, and that reporting has perpetuated a false understanding of wind power, and what I am trying to do is to show wind power for what it really is, a source of power generation which doesn’t deliver.

    The data I collected this past year for wind power generation was actually within 0.1% of what I have seen at two of those other sites, so with the mathematical formula constant, then my calculation for Capacity Factor (CF) is indeed accurate.

    I have that CF at 29.39% after a whole year of data collection, remarkably close to the figure I have used of 30%, a figure scoffed at by wind power supporters, but now proved to be quite accurate.

    Keep in mind that the figure of that 30% equates back to Nameplate, and can be used as an equivalence.

    So, here we have Wind power with a Nameplate of 6702MW, so at that 30% CF, that effectively equates to a Nameplate of just 2010MW, still not enough to replace a Large scale coal fired power plant of 2000MW+.

    Compare it to the total (brown) coal fired power in Victoria, which has ten coal fired Units with a total Nameplate of 4690MW.

    So, the whole Australian wind power fleet of 55 wind plants and (around) 3500 of those towers with small generators on top, and a total Nameplate of 6702MW, well that Nameplate is 1.2 times GREATER than that Nameplate total for Victorian coal fired power.

    And yet, those ten coal fired units in Victoria deliver 33,100GWH of power a year compared to 16000GWH from the WHOLE Australian wind power fleet, 2.07 times the power from those coal fired Units.

    There really is just no comparison.

    That is why Capacity Factor is so important. It shows that wind power is not doing what it is claimed to do, and it’s something you just won’t see anywhere else, because it’s wind power’s embarrassing little secret no one should be told about.

    Tony.

    550

    • #
      AndyG55

      Tony

      you might want to re-word this statement…

      “And yet, those ten coal fired units in Victoria deliver 33,100GWH of power a year compared to 16000GWH from the WHOLE Australian wind power fleet. SO WE GET 2.07 times the power from those coal fired Units.”

      150

    • #
      ivan

      Tony,

      Way back in the 70s I was investigating the use of wind power and I found a German paper from the 40s that gave the theoretical maximum output from any wind driven device as 30% for the simple reason that if you pulled out any more you end up with too much dead air behind the blades. Too much dead air behind the blades means that everything grinds to a halt.

      The people that built the windmills for grain knew this even if they didn’t have a nice formula for it so your figure of about 30% is absolutely correct. No matter how the owners of wind machines complain, they are not going to get more power out of their machines – you can’t beat real science.

      180

      • #
        Graeme#4

        Your comment prompted me to revisit the Betz Law comments (JoNova 7 Aug) which said that wind turbines cannot capture more than 59.3% of the wind energy, and in practice only 75-80% of this, so max would be around 44-47%.

        60

      • #
        yarpos

        I think CF has more to do with the availability of wind at the Goldilocks level that will allow rated output. Too little wind and less power all the way to zero, too much wind and less power all the way down to zero, regardless of aero efficiency.

        40

      • #
        Michael262

        ivan,
        I wouldn’t get into an efficiency competition with renewables.
        30% efficiency from a free energy source vs 20% from expensively extracted fossil fuels, all that wasted heat and pollution.
        Even in its infancy of development RE is cheaper than fossils which have had centuries of R&D and still need far more subsidies than RE.

        014

        • #
          AndyG55

          CLUELESS mickey strikes again !!

          RE is NOT cheaper and is FAR more polluting in it manufacture.

          Coal released CO2 provides for all life on Earth

          Wind and solar provide NOTHING.

          No subsidies for Coal in Australia.

          Wind and solar can only exist with subsidies.

          140

        • #

          I wouldn’t get into an efficiency competition with renewables. 30% efficiency from a free energy source…..

          Sometimes, all you can do is smile really.

          Let’s actually pretend for a microsecond that renewables are a free energy source (/sarc now Tony), it always makes me shake my head in disbelief that these supporters of those renewables of choice, wind and solar are actually ….. ‘happy’ with a source of power which only works at 30% for wind and 13% for RTS and 18% for commercial solar.

          And also note how they still cannot understand that there is a difference between Capacity Factor and efficiency.

          Free energy source? Give me strength.

          Tony.

          180

          • #
            Michael262

            Tonywhoknowswhatheknows,

            Your Capacity Factor in cherry picking is set to 11.

            I’m talking about efficiency from A to B, which starts with the cost of the energy input.
            Solar – the Sun – FREE
            Wind – the wind – FREE

            Knowing all that you know, I’m sure you think fossil fuels are free because you find them in the ground, and then only get 40% max out of them .

            014

            • #
              AndyG55

              Little mickey, WRONG AGAIN

              Lifetime cost of wind and solar barely breaks even.

              .. and real POLLUTION COST,, never do !!

              70

            • #
              Bobl

              Coal – free
              Gas – free

              Just dig em up

              20

            • #
              ghl

              Michael262
              BioFuels are free.
              They gave up woodburning trains because they were too expensive to run. They went to coal, then oil, then back to remote coal power stations.

              30

            • #
              yarpos

              Lets accept you 40% figure and not get tied nots arguing percentages.

              Firstly no fuel is free. They all take a toll, finacially and environmentally to extract.

              Secondly and more importantly, the 40% efficient “fossil fuels” power machines with over 95% availability if configured and maintained correctly, which can deliver power when actually needed, which has been demonstrated for the last 70 years.

              40

    • #
      RickWill

      You should actually see the CF for wind decline as it gets curtailed more often. This is a function of the decreasing price of LGCs as the the RET is reached and the growing capacity of wind and solar. The dispatchable coal generators are bidding a significant chunk of energy at negative prices, forcing the grid scale intermittent to curtail output as they are paying to send out when prices fall below minus $40/MWh.

      The coal generators can push the price to just below that of gas to ensure they are dispatched when wind and solar go missing.

      Grid solar is competing directly with rooftops. Rooftops are always scheduled and are guaranteed a fixed price; at least at this stage. The wholesale price is Queensland is still going negative despite the warmer weather and increasing air-conditioning demand. It went down to minus $1000/MWh for a couple of pricing intervals today.

      70

      • #

        …..despite the warmer weather and increasing air-conditioning demand.

        Or more correctly, HVAC, the largest part of all power consumption, especially in the warmer Months of the year.

        Tony.

        100

      • #
        yarpos

        Was reading a comment section yesterday on “renewables” and there was a fanboy on there commenting how negative pricing was an indication of the great success of wind and solar, because it free you know. I think he really thought that end customers get negative pricing.

        90

    • #
      Graeme#4

      Tony, your figure of 30% is now widely used in the more reputable MSMs and by the more reputable reporters and commenters. What is interesting is that I haven’t as yet seen anybody challenging this figure. Thanks for all your hard work and for posting your data here.

      220

      • #

        I only stumbled across it really, and even then I had to work out the maths for myself in the early days, almost twelve years back now.

        I knew the relationship between Nameplate and actual generated power, and that was mainly because of Nuclear power really, and that was the first one I fooled around with when I was just starting out.

        I used the data from the U.S. Energy Information Administration in those early days, and that was before you could find any accurate information from Australia, or any other Country really. That U.S. data was published with just a three month lead time, and I thought that was pretty good really, especially for such a huge power generation source as in the U.S. and I wondered why any information I could find for Australia was only published once a year, and even that was from the previous financial year, so at time of publication, almost two years old.

        I saw especially that the U.S. nuclear power plants were operating at around a 92% Capacity Factor, although I didn’t know it as ‘Capacity Factor’ per se until a Month or so later when I started looking at it in depth.

        I tried the same Maths for wind power, but I was certain I was doing something wrong, because it was as low as 25% to 30%, and as it was still all so new to me, I didn’t believe it could be that low. I searched long and hard, and finally found some old information from around 2003/04, a dreadfully boring paper from some Institute or other which over 400 or more pages ended up stating categorically that wind power could generate at a Capacity Factor of 38%. That piqued my interest, because, after looking at so many proposals for new wind plants. they all seemed to state that they could deliver their power at that rate of 38% or it came out at that when I did the Maths from the information supplied.

        However, what I found from actual data was that it rarely managed better than 30% on a ‘whole of wind power fleet’ basis.

        I wasn’t ready to commit to writing Posts giving that 30% figure, as I was still pretty certain that I was somehow wrong.

        In 2009, I saw some data on the German wind power fleet, and that was whole of fleet, and it was just on a 20% CF, not in the short term, but all wind power in Germany for a WHOLE YEAR.

        From that point, I checked it as often as I could, and from a plethora of sources, and as many different Countries as I could, and all I could actually find ….. from the data was that it really was only 30%.

        Then a whole range of new proposals started appearing for wind plants, right around the start of the wind power boom.

        NOT ONE of them ever mentioned the phrase Capacity Factor.

        However, what they did mention that was this new plant would supply “X” number of homes.

        From that, using the average power consumed by a home in that area, I could then work out the total power delivered by the proposed plant over a year. I could then work out the total power supplied by Nameplate, and comparing the two, that gave me the Capacity Factor.

        It actually became humorous after a while, because EVERY SINGLE proposed new plant that I could find worked out to have a CF of ….. 38%, that original figure I found, and one that was used for every proposal, not just here in Australia, but in the U.S. and everywhere I looked.

        And yet, the actual CF from the data stayed remarkably close to that figure of 30% on a fleet wide basis.

        It took me a while to actually take my heart in my hands and commit it to Posts, because even then, I was still certain I was missing something, because surely, all of those wind plants could not be intentionally doing it deliberately.

        NO ONE anywhere mentioned CF for ages, and even now, it’s only starting to be done, because that ‘homes supplied’ meme still rules.

        Tony.

        290

        • #
          theRealUniverse

          Googled wind turbines..

          “Over the course of a year, it will typically generate about 24% of the theoretical maximum output (41% offshore). This is known as its capacity factor. The capacity factor of conventional power stations is on average 50%-80%. Because of stoppages for maintenance or breakdowns, no power plant generates power for 100% of the time.”

          Wind power from Wikipedia..just for reference:
          Interesting, ok so Power (I assume max for the whole shebang farm)
          e.g. London Array 630MW United Kingdom 175 × Siemens SWT-3.6 MW
          Some a bit more but not much. You aint gonna get big power from a pole sitting unit..
          each turbine (Siemens) 3.6MW , so each one if only can achieve 30% full puff
          will give 1.08MW! (from the wind) Flea power. So thats why they have to dominate the landscape.
          Compared to coal, nuclear, hydro, gas units, not even a look in, especially in ground area per MW!

          140

          • #
            David Maddison

            50-80% capacity factor for proper power stations seems a bit low?

            90

            • #
              Ted O'Brien.

              How much of that is catering for fluctuating demand?

              100

              • #
                Lucky

                Good question, wind and solar have a guaranteed market that must take what they generate, conventional power generators provide the residual. So if capacity factor is actual energy supplied over a year divided by max energy available over a year, the political fix give an up bias to wind and solar.

                30

            • #
              ColA

              David, don’t forget that large amounts of Wiki is edited by those with a particular agenda, they are not interested in facts that don’t support their views!

              The reality there is no commercial power plant with an availability of less than about 90% because they would have been sold off and scrapped for not returning on investment!

              Australia’s “Energy Policy” is a farce, the LNP does not have the guts to stand up and LEAD the country with a reliable sustainable energy policy that includes coal. They are too chicken to take on the greens and their eco-fascist-terrorists, you can’t win a debate if you don’t pursue your argument and attack the weaknesses of the opposition.

              Every time someone says wind turbine, you say ’30% capacity factor’ and 100% backup power.

              120

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          Tony:
          I well remember articles about the German turbines having a CF of 16-18% for on-shore installations. I took the train in 2014 from Berlin to Prague and I was astonished by the concentration of turbines on the flat East Germany plains. Not an ideal position.
          The dead proposal some years ago by a German company for an installation near Broken Hill was written up in The Australian as having a likely CF of 24-25% and ts economics were queried.

          60

          • #
            Graeme No.3

            The highest figure I ever saw was for 73-75% for a turbine on North Cape in Norway, but as that exceeded the Betz limit I rejected it as propaganda. Besides there isn’t much demand up there.
            The turbine in Antarctica was supposedly generating 50% CF (according to the CSIRO) until it was blown down. Indicates superb electronics as many experts have claimed these reduce the possible output below 40% CF.
            The best in Australia seems to be the installation of 12 turbines near Albany WA, which are ideally situated on a smooth rise (which boosts elevation hence wind speed) with 2 rounded hill at either end slightly concentrating the air flow. Supposedly capable of a CF of 40-41% according to the brass plate there but Warwick Hughes reports that 31-33% maximum CF. This is born out by the (SW electricity supplier) (ref. lost) complaining that it hadn’t done as well as expected so extra generating capacity had to be called on.
            The only reason to rely on wind turbines is the subsidies.
            There is also “The Climate” on-shore wind turbines in England were getting 21-27% CF depending on the weather that year. This has been boosted by the off-shore installations since.
            Denmark was lower than England but still above 21% CF.

            90

            • #
              Graeme No.3

              Sorry, forgot. The highest average annual CF was for the three small turbines on a hill outside Lerwick on Shetland which were rated at 37%. Shetland is a windy place and I don’t know how these are affected by the 144 k.p.h. winds that occur there (there are no trees except in a small (<1 hectare) plantation in a gully).
              Still the Electricity Supply decided that the turbines were too disruptive and is/have planning to direct it into heating large tanks of water. These will be used for area heating and as Lerwick (the major population site) has an annual temperature of 6.9℃ (compared with Hobart at 12.5℃) and so has a requirement for heating every month of the year. This smooths out fluctuations better than a battery and allows for less generation in the lower winds of summer while still supplying some heat. Switching the generation to D.C. is expected to boost output.

              70

            • #
              rollo

              Perhaps they are understating name plate capacity to get bragging rights for a higher capacity factor?

              Taking this to its logical extent they could understate name plate to match average generation and try to convince the punters they are producing dispatchable power.

              30

            • #
              RickWill

              A stated capacity includes the Betz limit. The Betz limit is the theoretical maximum proportion of the wind energy that a single turbine can extract. The limit is 9/16ths of the energy in the air stream impinging on the swept area.

              The stated maximum capacity is what the turbine can deliver to the grid at the connection point. It includes all the losses the drive train and the electrical converter. So a 3MW rated wind generator will deliver 3MW to the grid at its connection under the rated wind conditions.

              So, while the power incident on a turbine of 18000sq.m swept area (75m long blades) in a wind stream of 10m/s is 10.8MW, the maximum output if rated at 10m/s is 6MW. Electrical rating will be around 5MW allowing for other losses. Usually the rated windspeed is a little higher than 10m/s (36kph).

              40

        • #
          Graeme#4

          Interesting CF history Tony. I see from a comment in JoNova on 7 August by “Dextrose” that WA wind farm CF is around 35%, ranging from 8% to 43%.

          30

    • #
      Latus Dextro

      Not soooooooooo bad, given the CF for intermittent UK and German green flatus is around 15 – 20%.
      On the other hand, Windy Wellington NZ has the World’s highest city CF of 49% from memory.
      Anywhere then, on average, the intermittency runs at >50%.
      How can that NOT be cripplingly expensive, unsustainable, impracticable and unaffordable?
      Designed to imprison the developing economies and throttle the developed economies.
      Classic redistributive Marxism. And that’s even before we get into the rare earths needed for high density generator magnets, the petroleum products needed to manufacture the high tech blades and the tons of damned concrete and steel needed to erect the gyrating Green phallus.
      A monument to insanity and a message to the future.

      130

    • #
      rollo

      Tony says “So, here we have Wind power with a Nameplate of 6702MW, so at that 30% CF, that effectively equates to a Nameplate of just 2010MW”

      I think this figure is still overly generous given the output of the windfarms is random as opposed to the dispatchable power of the coal fired plants. Until windfarms add technology that can store and forward their dribbles of power as required there is no equivalence.

      110

      • #
        Chad

        Off shore windfarms benifit from more , longer, windy periods..
        UK offshore regularly report 35+% CF , with newer farms up at 45-47% CF
        http://energynumbers.info/uk-offshore-wind-capacity-factors

        50

        • #
          David Wojick

          The old standard wind machines required a wind speed of about 33 mph to begin to generate full power. The new giant blade generation hits full bore around 23 mph and they are best suited for open water use because they are huge.

          The low CF is because the wind does not blow that hard almost everywhere. In a lot of places it seldom blows that hard continuously. Gusts do not generate extra power,

          50

      • #
        Robber

        From Tony’s fantastic data collection, for the AEMO grid wind has delivered a minimum of 140 MW, and a maximum of 4,800 MW during 2019.

        40

    • #
      Richard Ilfeld

      “Wind Power”
      Take a Californian’s eye view this morning —
      when ya finally have enough wind to generate a meaningful amount of power, it’s so much they have
      to take down the grid!
      Too bad irony is lost on the left.
      Bet the generators they need to keep the tunnels, mas transit stations and hospitals are
      real green. Do you think the state has to buy carbon credits after the (predicted) (man-caused)
      (repetitive) “emergency’ passes?

      I once though an open right of way for power lines might make a good fire break as well, but
      this turned out to be racist for some reason, like math is Seattle.

      The only difference in the downward spiral of western civilization may be that you folks in OZ are circling in the opposite
      direction…

      80

      • #
        Curious George

        While I appreciate the irony of the situation, the reason for shutting down the grid is not an excess of wind power, but a danger of fires caused by sparks from transmission lines in high winds.

        30

    • #
      Serge Wright

      Good work Tony !!!

      Of course the variable nature of wind means that you can never compare the 30% figure with thermal generation. Unlike thermal, wind power regularly vanishes almost completely for hours or even several days at a time. What your figures do highlight though is the reality of the uselessness of this technology to replace the existing thermal generation. Considering that it has taken 12 years and 10s of billions of dollars to build what is essentially one coal power station of intermittent output that varies from 1% to 95%, we would need to maintain the free subsidies and investment for another 50 years just to get to a point where 30% of the grid energy was made up of wind, but since the turbines only last 20 years then you are basically in a position where you can never get past about 10% of total grid capacity, and this ignores the mass storgae needed to make the wind energy useful, which we all know will never be built because aside from the lack of suitable pumped hydro sites, storage removes power from the grid rather than generates power and is therefore a loss making exercise that attracts no interest from private industry.

      When you look at the current situation from a big picture / holistic view, it’s easy to see how this pans out. By around 2025 when will see mass load shedding and resulting frequent blackouts due to the coal retirement and by 2030 the aging wind tubines built in the past decade will start failing on mass, resulting in a collapse of the system and a realisation that this can’t work. By 2025 we can expect at least another 50% increase in retail prices in real terms and there is no doubt that by this stage the general public will already be in a state of mutiny, looking to take action at the ballot box.

      Ultimately we will move back to coal or go nuclear, but the collateral damage needed to prove this could never work will be a tragic legacy in the pages of history.

      110

      • #

        Serge,

        well said, all of it, especially this line or two of text:

        By around 2025 when will see mass load shedding and resulting frequent blackouts due to the coal retirement and by 2030 the aging wind turbines built in the past decade will start failing on mass, resulting in a collapse of the system and a realisation that this can’t work.

        We are almost at the time now where some of those first wind plants are reaching their use by dates, and are already failing.

        People think power plants are forever. Coal fired ones up to 50 years and more. Wind plants 15 years to 25 years BCS. I wonder what will happen when people see the Nameplate number going backwards.

        Tony.

        90

  • #
    • #
      Latus Dextro

      KK, it seems that PF has got under your skin. It strikes me he’s intentionally playing agent provocateur and as a distraction, like all Australian sticky flies hardly rates focus because were one to focus on an infinite problem of human stupidity, it is a route to madness. I think Jo has been very generous too him. If we used Disqus here, I’d have blocked him personally after giving him a fair go. End of story.
      Which leads me to another point.
      We could use Disqus here potentially to some effect, unless there is a compelling reason not to, ie. Disqus censorship; and it would be convenient to upload images and graphs, which we cannot do, well at least I have not discovered how.

      60

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        Hi LD,
        He/they haven’t got under my skin.

        It’s the blog I’m concerned about.

        60

        • #
          Ted O'Brien.

          Too much chaff? Hang in there. We might be about to turn the corner.

          Try to make sure #3 carries through.

          Forget like for like replacement. Just abolish market corruption.

          50

          • #
            Ted O'Brien.

            Here’s more to hope on.

            The headlines tell us that the Queensland government it going to gaol the people who block the streets.

            Is this admitting that fifty years ago Joh Bjelke-Petersen was right?

            Or is it the iron fist of Marxism clampng down? Is Anna looking at Hong Kong?

            Either way, it sounds like a death rattle in the ALP. Just one day before Mark Butler attacks Joel Fitzgibbon for trying to save his electoral ar**.

            60

        • #
          Hanrahan

          Don’t feed the trolls. The blog will survive.

          40

          • #
            Kalm Keith

            I agree, especially once every new troll has been identified and “marked”.

            The only thing that trolls do is remind us of the lack of grounding in the world at the moment and the loopiness in thinking and action evident.

            While currently in NZ have watched some TV. The news shows from the U.S.are full of headlines and urgent analysis of the efforts to remove Trump.

            The unfulfilled dream of the British to once again be self governing also gets amazing airplay and it’s uncertain that they will ever be be Brexited.

            Then with a change of channel there’s Jacinderella bobbing and weaving across the screen making sense only to the initiated and with a flash to Australia we have a foreign lady from the U.N. Elite lecturing us on the importance of equality for all.
            She never once acknowledged that she is actually advocating a modern form of slavery for working Australians.

            All this just 44 years after my father died early from the effects of his time helping to defend Australia from invasion.

            Victimhood is the new attack meme.

            KK

            100

            • #
              Ted O'Brien.

              The trolls keep us in touch with what we are up against.

              50

            • #
              Latus Dextro

              KK, very brave indeed venturing onto the fields of the NZ MSM. Listen to them for a short while and they come with the guarantee anyone will be able to presciently regurgitate the narrative verbatim ahead of any piece of news indoctrination propaganda spruiked from TVNZ/Radio NZ/NewHub.
              it should all come with a health warning. Death by boredom or death by hypertension, take your pick.

              50

  • #
    el gordo

    Angus Taylor in the Canberra Times.

    “We need either like-for-like replacement, in terms of reliability and affordability, or life extension,” he told the National Energy Summit.

    “Some vague hope of transmission, intermittent generation and demand management filling the gap is not good enough.

    “For too long this industry has suffered from the triumph of hope over reality. Not this time.”

    280

    • #
    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Good…now kill it off for good. Wind power is feel good fluff

      90

    • #
      Another Ian

      “Then there is hope. But hope is not a strategy”. E.M. Smith

      70

    • #
      PeterS

      We all know what we need for some time now. What we really need is action not just words. They can talk as long as they like even until the cows come home. Makes no difference.

      90

      • #
        el gordo

        ‘What we really need is action not just words.’

        Angus Taylor is fast tracking a report into nuclear power viability and startuo costs, for the croweaters. Premier Gladys will refurbish old coal plants and build new ones to export energy to South Australia.

        50

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          el gordo:

          I can do the report now. No electricity from Queensland will get to S.A. It is too far away.
          The best is that Qld. can export to NSW to make up for their shortfall + a bit, so NSW can try sending it to SA through the proposed new interconnector which will run from Ludicrous to Fantasy.
          The main purpose of that proposal is to send excess wind electricity to NSW when the wind blows at very low prices, and get back coal fired electricity at higher prices.
          1. That would boost the Capacity Factor of wind turbines in SA back UP to 30%, from the current 27% because when the wind blows a fraction are directed to switch off.
          2. How much electricity ARRIVES where it can be used is another question, but I am sure the wind farms will expect to be paid for their output not what actually arrives, something which are regulator has belatedly cottoned onto.
          3. There will be no benefit for the citizens of SA but as the State is broke they will have to hope other States to pay for that connection.

          120

          • #
            el gordo

            Okay, so what do you suggest is the best way forward?

            30

            • #
              PeterS

              Mass peaceful protests by the silent majority as often as possible until the politicians get the message.

              70

              • #
                el gordo

                We had a mass peaceful protest recently and the silent majority won a stunning victory. Democracy works.

                50

              • #
                PeterS

                That was then, this is now. What you are suggesting is the silent majority should sit back and let the alarmists take over.

                50

              • #
                el gordo

                Scott Morrison is not happy with the alarmists, he has two young daughters and doesn’t want them to be unnecessarily concerned about a benign trace gas.

                The Coalition is easing out of this debacle and Labor must also adopt Realpolitik.

                30

            • #
              Graeme#4

              States should frak their own gas and use the cheap energy source to generate cleaner energy. But I realise that you might not approve of this approach. Seems to have worked very well in the USA however.

              50

              • #
                AndyG55

                NO harm at all in using coal, either.

                There’s plenty of it.

                40

              • #
                PeterS

                So true AndyG55. After all we are exporting huge amounts to a lot of other countries and will continue to do so for a very very long time. Makes us look so stupid even considering using renewables at all let alone to the extent we are now using them. Stupid is as stupid does. PM Morrison please take note.

                40

              • #
                el gordo

                G4 there is strong opposition coming from the farmers and graziers, for reasons too complex to discuss now, but the agrarian socialists are appalled that WA sold all their gas to north China, which beggared poor Australians.

                20

              • #
                Graeme#4

                EG, only just saw your comment about WA “sellout”. This is a common misconception by folks “over there”. WA has an excellent donestic gas reservation policy that reserves 15% of the gas at similar prices to export. Currently Perth derives around 40% of its energy from gas power at reasonable domestic energy prices (27c/unit). All the large industrial power stations up north also run on gas.
                Another advantage of using gas is that it’s easier to ramp the power generation up and down, using smaller metropolitan gas power generators situated along the north-south gas pipeline that runs through Perth. So less transmission losses.
                With the gas pipeline running down south, we also have sufficient energy to run desal plants.

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          • #

            The most pertinent thing that Graeme No.3 mentions is this: (my bolding here)

            …..NSW can try sending it to SA through the proposed new interconnector which will run from Ludicrous to Fantasy.

            Even over that distance, trying to export/import power from NSW to South Australia, then the losses would eat away most of the power anyway, but hey, hasn’t anyone used logic here.

            Why export/import power over that vast distance at all, if they already tell us that they have the answer, you know battery storage. They could store their excess wind power in batteries (please Tony, close sarc quickly) for use at that later time rather than run the risk of losing it all over a humungously expensive vast distance of yet to be constructed HT interconnectors, losing huge amounts of power along the way in both directions.

            Or, umm, do they really know something about batteries that they’re not telling us, eh! (that’s the use your logic bit)

            Tony.

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            • #
              toorightmate

              Tony,
              You must not confuse the pollies with things such as capacity factor and line losses.

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            • #
              el gordo

              So each state will need their own new coal fired power stations if they intend to keep the lights on?

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              • #

                Not new ones per se, well South Australia and maybe Victoria one each, but the other two States just need to replace existing ones as they close down. And North Queensland needs a dedicated plant of its own, as there’s nothing North of Stanwell near Rockhampton, and if you want to open up that North, you’ll need electricity.

                Tony.

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              • #
                el gordo

                Thanks, hopefully the guys at Sky get your memo.

                A change of government in Queensland is a certainty.

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  • #
    beowulf

    It’s about time police throughout the western world got serious, grabbed the XR protester pests by their nose rings and dreadlocks, and carted them off to where an equally serious judiciary imposed real fines on them, not some $1 token fine and a pat on the head for “saving the Earth”. One character in Brisbane has already been arrested and let off 7 times.

    Nor should it take the police half a day to clear an intersection of 6 nutters, chained, glued or whatever. They need a flying squad with bolt-cutters, angle grinders and crow bars. Read them the Riot Act; if they don’t move, it’s in with the tools. Problem solved in 10 minutes and everyone else can get on with their lives.

    A while back a lone protester sitting on a 3 metre tripod was allowed to block the main rail lines north of Newcastle to Brisbane, the Northern Tablelands, the Northwest and the Hunter/Gunnedah/Gloucester coalfields for several hours while the police tried to talk her down. I would suggest a more direct approach was in order, depending upon the construction of the tripod in question perhaps involving an angle grinder or an axe and a mattress.

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  • #

    Joke doing the rounds ahead of bankrupt PG&E’s shutdown for windy weather…

    “What did Californians use for light before candles? Electricity.”

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    • #
      OriginalSteve

      California is the forward projection of the Elites plans for the whole planet…

      Plague, lack of power and chaos…

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      • #
        PeterS

        It might be the elite’s plan but much of the world is not following. Hundreds of new coal fired power stations being built is proof of that. The elephant in the room is now stinking the place out but still only a couple or so politicians are taking any notice. The rest keep using platitudes or complete BS.

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      • #
        Latus Dextro

        … and don’t forget the endless cardboard, needles and human excrement.
        Plague, cholera, typhoid will get ‘em;
        that delightful globalist menu for the Green Death.

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    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Hang on…does California still have electricty?

      /sarc

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    • #

      Oz is just the crash dummy for Agendas 21 and 30. California is the Divine Wind pilot.

      It’s interesting that the San Francisco surrounds are to be cut, not the city itself. Maybe the globos feel that crime and homelessness are doing a good job already by the Bay.

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      • #
        PeterS

        It’s looking that way. Otherwise how does one explain our elected “saviour” from renewables still more interested in boasting how we will meet the Paris target? If that’s not a contradiction then nothing is.

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      • #
        Latus Dextro

        While NZ is a globalist exercise in seeing how quickly a country with a small population, tiny history and absence of cultural and historical inertia may be brought to UNEP compliance under the heel of the failing NWO.

        NZ is off to a scintillating start. It donated more than $10M to the Clinton Foundation (without the tax payers knowledge), launched United Nations Security Council Resolution 2334 (without electoral knowledge), embraced UN Global Migration Compact (without electorally sanctioning, electoral knowledge or critical debate from the treacherous Leftist MSM) all this under the electoral radar, and:
        1. Endeavours to secularise or Is-lam-ify an otherwise Judeo-Christian nation and increase the abortion rate beyond the present 1:5 live births, while embracing elder assisted suicide
        2. Eradicate a leading engine of GDP, milk and wool CH4 producing agrarian quadrupeds.
        3. Embrace ethno-nationalism in the form of a sanctioned ethnic elite and UN GMC ‘multiculturalism’ for the remaining fetid hoi-polloi
        4. Banned all oil and gas exploration
        5. Ban coal and mining
        6. Banned prudent forest management in favour of a no touch policy
        7. Lock up huge regions of land in UN sanctioned World heritage protected sites, having hardly explored them
        7. Banned free speech
        8. Endorsed ‘hate speech’
        9. Welcome the bureaucratic embrace of UN diktat at national and municipal levels and explicitly institutionalise neo-Marxism and its evil trinity of political correctness, cultural Marxism and identity politics, aka: “super-diversity.”
        10. Instituted the thug-support law that bans all free speech when ANTIFA thugs protest under the mantle of health and safety.

        There’s obviously far more, but that probably makes the point.

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        • #

          The globos have a fascination with NZ. They even want to live there, or hide there, or escape there…or whatever globos do when plan meets fan.

          I must say, Jacinda Ardern is the ideal globo candidate. Much like Tony Blair – who exudes a chummy, daffy earnestness but has always been an avaricious thug – Ardern is the opposite of what she projects. She’s young mummy in the parliament and knows just how to tear up (drily) under a headscarf when mourning for silicon dummies. But she is a real piece of work.

          Whenever I’m dissatisfied with a ScoMo or an Abbott, I just look over the ditch to be reminded of what might be.

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          • #
            OriginalSteve

            Ive heard her called “a pretty communist”

            Yku dont get to be El Prezidente unless you have a big streak of mongrel through you….

            Think ….same strategy as how they used St Greta….

            Still marvelling over how NZ had a port arthur moment, then had gun control bolted in within nanoseconds of the event….St Jacinta trotted out tough new laws a la “heres one we just happened you have ready to go….”…

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        • #
          theRealUniverse

          Solution,…. Sack Jancintabell!

          40

      • #
        yarpos

        and not San Jose/Silicon Valley

        20

  • #
    pat

    quite a fight in the UK, following headlines such as -

    5 Oct: UK Mirror: UK weather forecast: Britain braced for its coldest winter for nearly 60 years
    (article removed, headline only)

    some MSM said 30 years, others 50 years.

    some are still running with the 60 year story 3 days later:

    8 Oct: Argus: Britain braced for its coldest winter for nearly 60 years
    By Charlotte Ikonen
    BRITAIN could be about to be battered by the coldest winter since 1963 – and the temperature may start to plummet in little over a week.
    Forecasters warn the weather is about to turn and it could be the bleakest in 56 years.
    The savage climate will be the worst many can remember, experts say with the cold snap just ten days away…
    Snow may even hit this month – setting us up for a very challenging November and December with a frost already not far way.

    That means odds on a white Christmas are sure to be slashed with conditions set to get worse as 2020 nears.
    Coral spokesman John Hill said: “The falling temperatures so far this month have prompted an early flurry of bets on us having a White Christmas this year.
    “As always in our White Christmas betting, the Scottish and northern cities in England have the shortest odds on snow fall but we are also seeing bets on London seeing the white stuff this year.”

    Exacta Weather forecaster James Madden explained why things are about to change.
    “October is now looking like it will turn out to be colder than average with more of a chance of something wintery setting in through the second half of the month,” he said.
    “There is a strong chance of widespread frosts and the chance of snowfall which will set the scene for November.
    “This will pave the way for what is shaping up to be a colder than average winter with some extreme cold weather events.
    “Snow events have been few and far between in recent years, but this winter is looking favourable to bring snow event after snow event as weather systems from the Atlantic clash with cold stagnated air over the UK.”
    https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/17952346.britain-braced-coldest-winter-nearly-60-years/

    however, not so, according to an anonymous Met Office spokesman:

    7 Oct: GloucestershireLive: Met Office responds to claims it could snow in October and what weather the UK can really expect this winter
    They respond to those predictions of snow
    by Jessica Mercer
    The Met Office has spoken out amid claims that the UK should be bracing for a brutal cold snap.
    It says the claims that snow could be on its way as early as this month are premature, after a long-range weather forecaster warned of .snow after snow, reports Birmingham Live (LINK).
    Exacta Weather forecaster James Madden said then: “October is now looking like it will turn out to be colder than average with more of a chance of something wintry setting in through the second half of the month ETC…

    Yet the Met Office disputes the claims with a spokesman saying there was “no sign” of any snowy weather so far, although conditions are looking quite unsettled in the next few weeks.
    “Reports of snow in October did not come from us.
    “In late October and early November, there will be some dry weather and frost – not anything out of the ordinary for this time of year.
    “At the moment, the forecast for this time of year is warmer than average.”…
    https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/regional-news/met-office-responds-claims-could-3399306

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    • #
      pat

      ***Met Office no longer predicting “warmer than average”; a named spokesman now forecasting “around average”:

      8 Oct: UK Express: Snow weather forecast: Could it snow in October? Latest long-range forecast and charts
      TEMPERATURES have begun to drop and rainy, grey weather has set the tone for October so far – but could it snow this month? Here are the latest long-range forecasts and charts.
      By Georgina Laud
      As the temperature plummets in autumn, many are glad of the change in weather and the chance to pop on warm jumpers, scarves and indulge in a hot drink or two. However, recent reports of snow forecast to fall in October have emerged – but is this possible?

      According to Exacta Weather forecaster James Madden, the UK will be hit by “snow after snow” in winter, and “something wintry setting in” could be as early as October…
      Bookmakers Ladbrokes have also cut odds on snow falling in October.
      Ladbrokes spokeswoman Jessica O’Reilly told Express.co.uk: “We have slashed the odds in half to 5/1 (from 10/1) that this month sees snowfall anywhere in the UK.”…

      But what does the Met Office say about this?
      A spokesman for the Met Office said there was “no sign” of any snowy weather so far, despite conditions looking quite unsettled in the next few weeks…
      Met Office meteorologist Aidan McGivern said of Tuesday’s weather: “Be prepared over the next few days for sudden changes in the weather…
      Met Office long-range weather forecast…
      Temperatures are predicted to be ***“around average for the time of year, though in those drier spells, overnight frost and fog will become more widespread.”
      “At the end of the period, the northwest is likely to stay on the wet and windy side, with a greater chance of drier and brighter weather in the southeast, though there is low confidence this far in advance.”
      https://www.express.co.uk/news/weather/1187518/snow-weather-forecast-UK-met-office-long-range-forecast-October-snow-latest

      time (or adjusted data) will tell.

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      • #
        el gordo

        North Atlantic Oscillation is negative, its going to be cold and snowy this UK winter.

        https://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/pna/nao_index.html

        There has been wild talk that this is related to the sun’s behaviour, because of its connection to the NAO.

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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        We need to fund billboards in capital cities that compare the Mets forecasts and reality….

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      • #
        el gordo

        ‘Britain could be about to be battered by the coldest winter since 1963 …’

        Ice skating on the Thames will send a shudder through the klimatariat.

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      • #
        Graeme No.3

        pat:

        I was going to point out that while 1962/3 was the coldest winter in the UK in at least the last 80 years but that came at the end of about 20 years of cooling; then I saw the comment from the Met Office and realised that a cold winter is coming in the UK.
        I can see the election slogan now….Brexit and save yourself from European winters!

        30

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          My earliest recollection of overseas weather was in 1962/3 of a picture in the local Adelaide paper of some woman who’d left her washing out overnight and was pictured holding it out stiff at an angle.

          20

          • #
            Chad

            The UK 1963, Norfolk.
            Plenty of snow, ..even the major “A” roads closed with abandoned cars burried under 6 feet of snow. We would probe for those cars usinf broom handles to mark them such that snow clearing machinse could work through.
            All local water mains supply pipes were frozen underground. My father was employed by the council to use a large truck mounted DC diesel generator to thaw out those mains pipes by forcing high DC current through from stop valve to tap to heat the pipe and thaw it out !
            Solid ice on the inside of my bedroom windows….
            ..Thank heavens for coal fired heating, and the ability to store months of that cheap fuel ready for a long winter

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            • #
              Annie

              I remember that winter well. :( No central heating at that time, so a hot-water bottle to warm my freezing bed in the little NE -facing bedroom. Said bottle burst and soaked the bed…miserable sleepless night. Frost ‘flowers’ all over the window. Ice-skating on a pond nearby. Joining the Army and marching around drilling, looking like Napoleon’s army retreating from Moscow! Thank goodness for AC and CH. :)

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    • #
      Latus Dextro

      Welcome to the Grand Solar Minimum. Not predicted by the “models.”
      Little wonder the globalist hysteria is at max amperage.
      Their days are numbered.

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      • #
        el gordo

        NASA admits they didn’t see it coming, but now they are onboard with solar cycle 25 being the quietest in 200 years. I believe them and so does Valentina Zharkova.

        It fits the criteria for a Grand Solar Minimum, but what can we expect on the ground?

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    • #

      I’m a bit wary of a this=that approach to solar minima etc. The mechanistic, Big Lever interpretations of natural phenomena are best left to the climatariat and Publish-then-Perish industry, the types who’ll eat any statistic.

      Keep in mind the quiet sun of WW1: cold and mud in Western Europe, but appalling heat+drought conditions for much of Oz. Maybe there was more in the mix than sunspots. We live on a hot ball of mush and nobody seems to know or care what that comes via the deep hydrosphere or asthenosphere.

      I realise the solar indications are different now, and appreciate any new info on any possible Grand Min…but I reckon we need to be different from the mattress-moisteners of Green Blob. Let’s concentrate on stopping the white elephants so if we do cop a Maunder we won’t be running round wiping volcanic grime from clapped out solar panels.

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  • #
    TdeF

    In the US, one of the alleged whistleblowers was employed (in a professional relationship) with one of the 2020 Democratic candidates. Doesn’t that make the Democratic candidate the one using a foreign country to undermine a political competitor, even the President of the US? Why does impeachment only work one way?

    Plus there is no impeachment, no defence is allowed, no witnesses, no knowledge of the whistleblower’s identity, no vote in the house, no ability to call your own witnesses in your own defence. This impeachment ‘inquiry’ is quickly heading into what it seems to be, a partisan witch hunt which contravenes every legal right the accused has, in this case the President.

    So until there is an actual vote, an actual impeachment and the Republicans and the Presidents are given the same rights, it will be a total impasse, another Russia gate investigation by one side of politics but claiming the rights of investigation which are not true unless there is a real impeachment ordered by the house.

    You have to wonder why they are doing this, but the Democrat supporteres have been baying for impeachment since before even the election. On the bright side, Flake is gone and apart from Romney and perhaps Collins, the Republicans are solidly behind Trump, even the Never Trumpers because at this rate, the Democrats will be wiped out. Interesting, that Pelosi caves into the gang of four and the extreme left of politics. The question is why?

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    • #
      TdeF

      Or as someone wisely wrote, why is President Trump the only person Romney criticizes?

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    • #
      Latus Dextro

      Pelosi caves into the gang of four

      TdeF,
      Pelotta has nothing to lose. She is at the end of her career and what life she has left will be spent in the lap of insulated luxury.
      She is on record as stating she doesn’t care whether the DEMS lose the House of Representatives or not. She just wants to get POTUS DJT, a pointless objective in which she will not succeed.
      POTUS DJT is points ahead of Hussein the Divider in Chief in popularity at the same time in the presidency.

      The moderate DEMS are ancient history. POTUS has successfully identified the DEMS as the Squad. The radical Left have taken over the party and disenfranchised the majority of centre Left DEMS. Neo-Marxist tyranny is on full display as is crony capitalism from Biden and his hapless son Hunter, and more lies from pathological liar and exaggerator Elisabeth Warren around her termination of employment during her pregnancy.

      This is not a new phenomena but has happened, is happening around the World. The globalist centre Left and centre Right are being hammered by the electorate who have finally began to awaken to the stench of unelected, unelectable globalism. People do not want to be homogenised (like data). They want to enjoy and savour the triple instinctive securities of cultural, customs and tradition, hence the emergence of popular nationalism.

      The choice of the counter-culture that rejects the NPC globalist narrative is popular nationalism, whether Left or Right. I am willing to bet that the Left in the US (the extreme Left DEMS) will move (like they have done in Germany) toward embracing welfare chauvinism, border control and national identity.
      It appears the ONLY route to electoral survival.
      RINO’s like Ryan and Romney and DEMS in marginal POTUS DJT supporting seats will maybe come up with an alternative party, although to be candid, there does not appear to be much political oxygen remaining in the room for the globalists of yore.

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      • #
        TdeF

        Fully agree. Interesting comment about the extreme left embracing welfare chauvinism, border control and national identity. It is what Hitler did, recast the poor neighbours as the problem and attack them as the enemy. For people to surrender their rights, they have to have an enemy. Climate Change is not going to cut it for much longer, now that the real loonies, the clowns are quite visibly running Climate Change led by St. Greta of the fables Grimm.

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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Should a series of skirmishes break out between the left and right if it gets seriously ugly, the only benefit may be the eradication of the communists by the silent and finally ticked off majority……who will be armed…and ruthless in eradicating the Leftist purveyors of all at is unholy. Maybe the US will get back to being a functioning Republic again.

        I should point out I dont want nor advocate any form of violence….

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  • #
    pat

    beowulf wrote about the XR “stunts” – comment #4.
    check out this AAP report!

    9 Oct: NewDaily: AAP: Bushfires rip through NSW, Qld while a bereaved husband takes a stand
    by Samantha Dick
    A Queensland father who swung from a Brisbane bridge for more than eight hours was protesting the impacts of climate change on bushfires as up to 30 homes were destroyed or “seriously damaged” in the latest outbreak.
    ***A heartbroken Paul Jukes, 49, said the recent ***Binna Burra bushfires in Queensland destroyed the memorial for his wife, who died when his daughters were very young…

    The engineer and experienced rock climber from Airlie Beach spent most of Tuesday dangling in a hammock about 10 metres underneath Brisbane’s Story Bridge, about 50 metres above the river…
    He eventually climbed out of his harness and handed himself in to police.
    “She asked (for) her ashes to be scattered in Lamington National Park and a memorial was set up and it just burnt,” Mr Jukes said…

    His drastic action came as Australia prepares for possibly one of the worst bushfire seasons on record…
    Temperatures in the Lockyer Valley, west of Brisbane, reached 41C on Tuesday as gusty, westerly winds fanned a dangerous bushfire that threatened the township of Thornton…
    Cooler temperatures will begin to ease bushfire conditions across Queensland’s southeast corner from Wednesday…
    https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/national/2019/10/09/bushfires-queensland-nsw-protests/

    so rare for ABC, read all, but note Binna Burra fire being investigated for possible arson:

    22 Sept: ABC: Bushfires deliberately lit by ‘cunning, versatile criminals’, more common in school holidays, expert warns
    By Shelley Lloyd
    Dr Paul Read, co-director of the National Centre for Research in Bushfire and Arson, said the great majority of bushfires are deliberately lit by “cunning, furtive and versatile criminals”.
    “About 85 per cent are related to human activity, 13 per cent confirmed arson and 37 per cent suspected arson,” he said.
    “The remainder are usually due to reckless fire lighting or even just children playing with fire.”
    Dr Read said holidays and summer were a bad combination when it came to fire starters.
    “School holidays are a prime time for fire bugs, but especially over summer,” he said.
    “The kids have got time to get out there and light, and the most dangerous adults choose hot days.”

    Taskforce Overcross, which was set up by police this month, found 23 bushfires were thought to have been deliberately or carelessly lit, with action taken against 21 juveniles and nine adults.
    ***The bushfire in the Gold Coast hinterland that destroyed 11 properties and the historic ***Binna Burra Lodge is still under investigation…
    “The more dangerous fire bugs will come out on the high fire danger days … they’re cunning, they know where to light and they know how to light a fire.”…READ ALL
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-22/bushfire-arson-warning-ahead-of-school-holidays/11528192

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    • #
      pat

      meanwhile (check the pics) of the Arizonan falsely protesting under the name “Appalachians” (a group that formed in 2018) – lol:

      PICS: 9 Oct: WSET: Man arrested after locking himself to helicopter to protest pipeline project
      by Elizabeth Tyree
      The group ‘Appalachians Against Pipelines’ said it prevented the helicopter from being used. They also put up a banner that reads “DOOM TO THE PIPELINE”…
      Police said he was wearing a mask and refused to release himself from the helicopter…
      Police arrested 24-year-old Galen Sol Shireman-Grabowski, of Tucson, Arizona, and charged him with two felonies and four misdemeanors.

      The charges include felony tampering/damaging and aircraft; felony prohibition of wearing masks in certain places; misdemeanor obstruction of justice without force; misdemeanor entering property of another for the purpose of damaging it; misdemeanor breaking, injuring, defacing, destroying, or preventing the operation of a vehicle, aircraft, or boat; and misdemeanor injuring property…
      Grabowski is being held without bond in the Western Virginia Regional Jail.
      https://wset.com/news/local/man-arrested-after-locking-himself-to-helicopter-to-protest-pipeline-project

      TWEET: Appalachians Against Pipelines
      “In times such as these, with the catastrophic effects of global warming accelerating at an alarming pace, it is imperative to act now.” — the pipeline fighter locked to a Mountain Valley Pipeline helicopter right now
      7 Oct 2019
      CHECK THE FOUR RESPONSES
      https://twitter.com/stopthemvp/status/1181165796111917056

      a later tweet,

      - A pipeline fighter was arrested after locking to a MVP helicopter for 5 hours! Help us bail them out jail & support ongoing resistance? http://bit.ly \supportmvpresistance –

      has even less responses.

      the group seems to associate itself with Rising Tide:

      8 Oct: RisingTideNorthAmerica: Elliston, VA: Pipeline Fighter Locks Onto Mountain Valley Pipeline Helicopter!
      (About: Rising Tide was formed in the Netherlands in 2000 by environmental and social justice activists attending the UN Conference of the Parties climate talks)
      cross-posted from Appalachians Against Pipelines
      The pipeline fighter taking action, going by Squirrel, stated: “I took action today in an attempt to slow the construction of this destructive pipeline project. If completed, the MVP will ship billions of cubic feet of natural gas to be burned every single day. This pipeline will inevitably leak, and many natural gas pipelines have exploded, killing people and wildlife.
      “In times such as these, with the catastrophic effects of global warming accelerating at an alarming pace, it is imperative to act now. The planet is in crisis, and the ruling class would rather continue the genocidal and ecologically destructive projects of capitalism, imperialism, and colonialism, than address the largest existential threat in human history. It’s up to us to intervene — they won’t stop unless we make them stop. For a world and a future without exploitation, capitalism, and the destruction of the wild! No compromise!”…
      The action took place just down the road from the Yellow Finch tree sits, which have been preventing construction and defending some of the last remaining trees on the pipeline route for 398 days and counting!
      DONATE to support Squirrel and the tree sits
      https://risingtidenorthamerica.org/2019/10/elliston-va-pipeline-fighter-locks-onto-mountain-valley-pipeline-helicopter/

      update on another case:

      4 Oct: TheIntercept: Dakota Access Pipeline Activists Face 110 Years in Prison, Two Years After Confessing Sabotage
      by Alleen Brown
      Two women who vandalized the Dakota Access pipeline in an effort to halt construction have been indicted on charges that carry up to 110 years in prison and hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines. They are among the harshest penalties environmental activists have faced in the last decade…
      As the deadly impacts of carbon emissions grow ever clearer, the fossil fuel industry has increased pressure on lawmakers and government officials to penalize those who would inhibit their projects’ operations…

      Bill Quigley, an attorney who previously represented Montoya and Reznicek: “They shouldn’t be prosecuted; they should be praised. They’re trying to stop the destruction of the human race.”…
      https://theintercept.com/2019/10/04/dakota-access-pipeline-sabotage/

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  • #
    David Maddison

    Tony Heller has been very active lately. Here is his latest video for which “our” very own CSIRO gets a mention

    Evidently they are the ones responsible for fabricating NASA’s fake sea level “rise” data.

    https://youtu.be/cK8wHwm7oW

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  • #
    New Chum

    Some bad news U.N. could run out of money within weeks.
    https://t.co/Fy7UzNvUNg

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  • #

    The future dOn’t belOng to glObalists. :O

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  • #
    RickWill

    As far as I can determine there is no definitive understanding of the mechanism that results in Ice Ages. There is certainly strong linkage to the Milankovitch cycles with 96kyr orbital eccentricity providing the best correlation.

    I believe the distribution of water over the globe is the prime driver of energy in the climate system. This understanding provides a sound basis for orbital eccentricity leading to reduced energy stored that could initiate an Ice Age.

    There is significant variation in the distribution of water between the southern and northern hemisphere. The NH is 52% ocean in area while the SH is 78%. The linked image compares the solar view of the earth during the perihelion, top pair, and the aphelion, bottom pair:
    https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aq1iAj8Yo7jNgz4EdTPPAlxeftEp
    Note the much higher proportion of water in the lower two images; bottom right being almost all water.

    When eccentricity is greatest, the insolation is 1531W/sq.m at perihelion and 1191W/sq.m at aphelion. That compares with 1406W/sq.m and 1316W/sq.m at the present time.

    At maximum eccentricity, combined with the fact that oceans store heat while land does not, the effective global power going to storage at perihelion is roughly proportional to 1531 X 0.52 equals 731. At aphelion it is 1191 X 0.78 equals 1026. Assuming sinusoidal between these extremes gives average of 878. Doing the same exercise for the almost circular orbit at present, the average is 862. So there is a reduction of heat storage of the order of 1.8% when the orbit is highly eccentric. In terms of solar constant of 1361W/sq.m at 1AU, this corresponds to a reduction of 24W/sq.m in insolation, or 6W/sq.m averaged over the actual surface.

    Despite the average insolation over a year being almost independent of the eccentricity, the energy stored is markedly lower at high eccentricity simply because of the sun’s view of water on earth changing dramatically between perihelion and aphelion.

    Once ice forms across the Bering Strait, the transfer of heat from the Pacific to the North Atlantic will diminish and that will upset the Gulf Stream. That makes land surrounding the North Atlantic colder. If ice extended from Antarctica to South America then this would impair the Southern Ocean circulation further reducing heat transfer from the Pacific to the Atlantic.

    I have not been able to find any references that support or counters this theory. I am interested in any reference that demonstrates the mechanism of Ice Ages.

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    pat

    the CAGW mob are coming after the petw now:

    AUDIO: 54min05sec: 8 Oct: ABC Big Ideas: Can we afford to feed companion animals?
    About one in three Australians have a dog or cat. They’re a member of the family.
    But these pets need a high-energy diet and producing pet food generates millions of tonnes of greenhouse gases. The choices we make when we feed our pets affect other animals, the environment and even our own well-being.
    Should we stop keeping meat-eating pets? Do we need to find a synthetic diet for them – and possibly risk their welfare?

    The 9th Annual Robert Dixon Memorial Animal Welfare Symposium Animal welfare, human wellbeing and planetary health. Applying a One Welfare framework when feeding companion animals. A special Sydney Ideas event presented in collaboration with the Centre for Veterinary Education. August 28, 2019.
    Speakers
    Dr Michelle Shaw – Zoo & Wildlife Nutritionist, Taronga Conservation Society Australia
    Professor David Raubenheimer – Leonard P Ullman Chair in Nutritional Ecology and Nutrition Theme Leader, Charles Perkins Centre
    Dr Roger Bektash – previously director of Scientific & Regulatory Affairs, Mars Petcare, and past president of Pet Food Industry of Australia
    Dr Andrea Harvey – Independent Veterinary Consultant in Feline Medicine
    Dr Anne Fawcett – Lecturer in Veterinary Practice, University of Sydney
    Chair: Dr Bidda Jones – Chief Science & Strategy Officer, RSPCA Australia
    https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/bigideas/can-we-afford-to-feed-companion-animals/11492312

    5 Oct: ZME Science: Our pets should eat more insect-based food, veterinarians say
    by Mihai Andrei
    Raising conventional livestock requires massive land and water resources, while also consuming more energy and generating more emissions. Considering all of this, insects have emerged as an interesting (and controversial) alternative.
    But while most people would be reluctant to feast on insect protein, would they be more willing to feed insects to their pets?…

    Insects are already used in fish and poultry farms, and some companies have started to add insect protein to pet food. However, the British Veterinary Association (BVA) says it’s time to take things even further — not just because it’s more sustainable, but also because it’s healthier.
    Simon Doherty, the BVA president, told BBC News…
    https://www.zmescience.com/science/our-pets-should-eat-more-insect-based-food-veterinarians-say/

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    robert rosicka

    Just listening to the far far left ABC radio and it’s support for extinction rebellion over climate change, a fifteen year old girl last name O’Shea was asked all the hard questions and coaxed into the answers inbetween giggling for every statement / question thrown at her .
    I must admit the interviewer did correct her on the “all scientists agree” answer and told her it was only 99% that agree .
    I learnt that burning coal reduces the ozone layer , burning coal means more droughts , burning coal means more bushfires and burning coal means less rain .
    I also learnt that people are dying now because of climate change but the the thing I learnt the most was the only people contacting the ABC talk back programs these days are greentards .

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      el gordo

      ‘I learnt that burning coal reduces the ozone layer …’

      That couldn’t be right, since the Sudden Stratospheric Warming began the ozone hole has completely repaired itself.

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      Serp

      In fact the producers are careful to screen out contrary views and put only the greentards to air.

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    robert rosicka

    So I go to faceache to see what the greentards are saying and I get that baldness is caused by burning coal (research suggests) .

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    pat

    robert rosicka – if ABC’s audience lasted through the Big Ideas “Pets cause globull warming” last night, they then got:

    AUDIO: 30min37sec: 8 Oct: ABC Life Matters: Australia Talks talkback: how do you feel about the future?
    Presenter: Hilary Harper
    The ABC has conducted the Australia Talks National Survey, where 54,000 Australians were surveyed to find out how they are feeling on a range of topics and issues…
    Guests:
    Rebecca Huntley, social researcher and expert on social trends
    Brock Bastian, social psychologist and associate professor of psychology at University of Melbourne
    https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/lifematters/australia-talks-talkback:-how-do-you-feel-about-the-future/11574440

    the entire program was about CAGW and how the Govt was useless. forget the election.

    summary, paraphrasing:

    opens: program recorded earlier. so how come these particular listeners managed to called in? for all but one, CLIMATE CHANGE was paramount.
    first caller very concerned about CAGW/planet, unless we act. has hope, led by those wonderful children. they’ve read the science & they believe the science. ABC isn’t it wonderful that you can look at the media landscape and glean some hope from something you see there.

    second caller is with the first caller. biodiversity, ravages of CAGW. not talked about enough.

    caller: worried about food supply because of CAGW. prompted by ABC host, says not enough political leadership. caller is working with ex-Gov-Gen Mike Jeffery, Soils for Life, on how we must change our entire food supply system, like the aborigines did, they had that inter-action with nature. (Wikipedia: On 23 October 2012, at the National Farmers Federation Congress in Canberra, then Prime Minister Julia Gillard announced the appointment of General Jeffrey as Australia’s first ever Advocate for Soil Health,)

    caller: very concerned about CAGW. local dam affected by mining. didn’t expect to see these huge effects of CAGW in her lifetime – the bushfires, the drought. worried for her grand-children.

    caller from Hobart: very optimistic about our youth incl her daughter & friend. this year, Hobart has had extraordinary weather. the youth are aware of CAGW, concerned, and they are making the changes, and so are some adults. people are putting solar panels on their roofs – thank you Julia Gillard.

    caller from Victoria: forgets to mention CAGW in opening sentence. ABC: are you thinking specifically about CAGW? caller: yes, yes, & the ecological emergency because of CAGW. ABC: are you seeing dire things around you? caller: yes, in Mildura this year, the crops are barely coming out of the ground, and those that did, died.

    ABC: interesting spread of opinions coming through on our talkback line today.

    also mentioned:
    people don’t trust politicians. LNP voters not as keen on climate action; wealthier, though not all.
    not just the young concerned, but the elderly also.
    Rebecca Huntley is talking to climate activists all over the world; they don’t read an enormous amount of info all the time; they filter the news, because too much stops them from acting; they want just enough info to make them act.
    this “survey” will be made into a TV program to be aired 18 Oct.

    reminder, re guest Rebecca:

    Wikipedia: Rebecca Huntley is an Australian social researcher and expert on social trends. She is an author and researcher with degrees in law, a first class degree in film studies and a PhD in Gender Studies. She has been a regular columnist for Business Weekly Review, a feature writer for Vogue and a radio presenter for ABC’s RN…
    From 1997 to 2002, Huntley studied at the University of Sydney to obtain a PhD in Gender Studies, exploring the campaign for the women’s vote and the Australian Labor Party (ALP) campaign in the 1983 and 1993 federal elections…
    She was the director of The Mind & Mood Report at Ipsos Australia, a market research firm, from 2006 to 2015. She was at Ipsos until 2014…
    Dr Huntley is a committed republican and worked for the YES campaign during the 1999 Australian republic referendum…
    Huntley hosted the Drive show on Radio National in 2014. In 2015 she co-hosted a weekly podcast called Just Between Us with journalist Sarah Macdonald (Weekend Nightlife, ABC Radio). …
    Huntley has co-hosted a storytelling event at The Giant Dwarf in Sydney, called The Full Catastrophe with broadcaster Sarah Macdonald…
    Since 2017 Huntley has been the director of research at Essential Media. Rebecca is also a principal at Vox Populi Research.

    the other guest, who partnered in the survey, Melb Uni’s Brock Bastian:

    23 Apr: Scientific American: Reducing Climate Change by Making It Less Abstract
    Psychology offers a strategy to meet the threat
    By Paul A.M Van Lange & Brock Bastian
    (Paul van Lange is Professor of Psychology at VU Amsterdam, The Netherlands, and Distinguished Research Fellow at the University of Oxford. He is an expert on trust and human cooperation, economic games, and social neuroscience, and gives advice and workshops to mayors and other professionals to address major issues of trust and conflict in policy and management; Brock Bastian is Associate Professor of Psychology at the University of Melbourne, Australia. His research focuses on issues related to ethics, wellbeing, and culture…He also provides expert consultancy to NGO’s and industry on how to build ethical cultures and promote resilience.
    There is no longer any doubt: the world is getting warmer, and humans are partially to blame. Unless we make significant changes at both the individual and societal level in the coming years, the consequences could be catastrophic…

    For example, rather than statistics about the depleting of natural rain forest, movies that depict the harm done to particular animals, and perhaps even special trees or plants, may help. Or public information campaigns might illustrate equally concrete, but perhaps less well-known, consequences of climate change such as the suicides linked with heat waves…
    Another way to change people’s climate behavior concerns changing the way they think about the future. One way to do this might be to emphasize the people of who will have to deal with effects of our bad behavior. So far, there has not been much research on this topic. But in the past months, in some countries it has been the children themselves who organized strikes at school, demonstrating against climate change. And interestingly, in many places around the world, grandparents have started to demonstrate against climate change as well, in an attempt to safeguard a bright future for their grandchildren.

    Indeed, the combination of “young and vulnerable” is especially strong in energizing empathy—for example, the suffering of one young puppy can enhance empathy, sometimes even more than the suffering of other human beings. These tendencies are even stronger if it concerns the young and vulnerable that share our genes: our children…
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/reducing-climate-change-by-making-it-less-abstract/

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      Another Ian

      Australia’s population – 54,000 leaves a hell of a lot of people likely to agree with these sentiments:-

      ” Why this blog?

      Until this moment I have been forced to listen while media and politicians alike have told me “what Canadians think”. In all that time they never once asked.

      This is just the voice of an ordinary Canadian yelling back at the radio – “You don’t speak for me.” ”

      Small Dead Animals

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      robert rosicka

      Pat one thing I get from the ABC is the few who watch or believe what they say are also hard core ideologues and mainstream people have switched off .
      I also heard on the radio that 70-80% of the public want real action on climate change ! Yeah really that’s not what the public just voted for !

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        Greg in NZ

        Forget the overwhelming 97% nonsense: all it takes now is a meagre 3.5% –

        http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20190513-it-only-takes-35-of-people-to-change-the-world

        “compelling research by Erica Chenoweth, a political scientist at Harvard University, confirms that civil disobedience is not only the moral choice; it is also the most powerful way of shaping world politics… In the UK it would amount to 2.3 million people… in the US, it would involve 11 million citizens”.

        In NZ it would take at least 170,000 ‘disobedients’ to reach the mythical, magical, so-called moral 3.5%, which is why our obedient, subservient, media churnalists exaggerate, enlarge, magnify, pronounce their pre-prepared crowd numbers to assist mum, dad, the kids and even grandma, believe it’s a powerful movement for ‘change’. Nah, it’s only small change – 3.5 pieces of silver. And folk ain’t buying into it.

        Written by: “David Robson is a senior journalist at BBC Future”. Pfft!

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          Annie

          ‘Moral’…is that what l1eing and bullying by a small minority is called? This minority think they have a right to bully the rest of us because they are gullible/evil enough to believe the nonsense put out by the globalist would-be ‘elite’?

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            Greg in NZ

            The tiny twisted minority of (im)moral b*****s were at it again in Brizzo:

            “The actions… dubbed ‘international rebellion week’… Thursday afternoon, about 300 protesters staged a funeral procession to symbolise the death of the planet’s species… Their rally blocked pedestrian crossings as the walk sign turned green. A handful of protesters who refused to move on when the walk signal turned red were arrested by police”.

            https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-10/extinction-rebellion-protest-actions-brisbane-cbd/11588850

            In China or Calcutta or the Congo, stop in the middle of the road and you become part of the road, no nice Mr Plod to drag you to safety because you left your brain at home and forgot how to cross the road. The moral of the story is (?)

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              AndyG55

              I will henceforth refer to ER as “The Stinkies”.

              “symbolise the death of the planet’s species

              Death of which planet species ????

              Surely they were not mourning for the little island rat that disappeared in a hurricane.

              I suppose the loss of their kin would upset them.

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    David Maddison

    Leftists keep telling us that Australia has one of the highest levels of species extinction in the world but is this true or just more lies? According to Wikipedia:

    There are 24 birds (though just 1 from the mainland), 7 frogs, and 27 mammal species or subspecies strongly believed to have become extinct in Australia since European settlement.

    It doesn’t seem an excessively large amount nor are these apparent extinctions known with certainty.

    What do you think?

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      AndyG55

      “strongly believed”

      Like CO2 warming ??? ;-)

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        Greg in NZ

        Species extinction – just believe!
        Carbon pollution – just believe!
        Giant Leap Backwards – just believe!
        Have you read the science? Nah, just believe!
        Lambs to the slaughter…

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      Hanrahan

      Many of these would be sub species. I know of two subs of the Australian Rainbow fish, a delightful aquarium fish that are no more: The eachamsii which was unique to L. Eacham, a crater lake on the Atherton tableland, with no outflows and only fed by rain. Some d’head introduced the archer fish and aquarists had no hope to keep it in captivity because because, being endangered it was ILLEGAL to keep them in captivity. Another, the machulii was a pretty little fish from north of Cardwell. My brother and I looked for it all day a couple of years ago but to no avail. It MAY still exist but splendida, the most common specie was all we found. There is another local fish I know, the Fletcher R. rainbow restricted to the Fletcher R. a tributary of the Burdekin where the splendida is dominant.

      The reason such a fragile egg scatterer survives the onslaught of feral mouth breeding African cyclids is their tolerance of heat. They can survive in tiny hot puddles in otherwise dry creek beds until it rains again. There are stories of hobby aquaria with runaway heaters. When discovered the rainbows were the only survivors.

      Do an image search on “australian rainbow fish” and be delighted by their beauty and variety.

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      beowulf

      For a start when they begin talking about sub-species the alarm bells should ring — beware taxonomic tricks. You can split a species into multiple sub-species if you delve deeply enough into its genetics to find minor differences. Taxonomists love to split. I suppose it’s how they justify their existence.

      It’s like the so-called white possum from far N QLD that went extinct a couple of years ago, which was nothing more than a couple of white individuals of a possum species still well represented. And the rat on the ephemeral sand bank “island” off the coast of PNG near the Fly River (from whence it no doubt drifted during a flood) that was reported as extinct in Australian territory, because we technically owned the sand bank. The scientists that reported it extinct admitted that they hadn’t bothered to check on mainland PNG to see if it still existed.

      To use a corny example, eucalypts too became virtually extinct in the mid-1990s when the genus Eucalyptus was axed and split into Corymbia, Monocalyptus and Symphomyrtus at the stroke of a pen. Now when we speak of eucalypts we are theoretically speaking botanical rubbish.

      Some western desert mammal species suffered badly as a result of man NOT being there once the tribes were brought into the missions and out-stations. Thousands of years of husbandry of the land abruptly ended; plant communities changed without regular burning; some species increased without human predation and that tipped the balance away from other species; some relied on man maintaining water holes and soaks. Some bird species like Gouldian Finches in northern Australia were common and are now endangered, mostly because a frequent burning regime was not maintained during the 80s, 90s, 00s on cattle stations in their preferred habitat. A lot of Australia needs to burn for the sake of many of our animals.

      They don’t say when these extinctions took place and I will bet a lot are decades old, whereas they would prefer us to believe that it is a recent phenomenon. Dingos, foxes, cats, rabbits and feral pigs have taken a massive toll, not for want of us trying to control them. Things like bilbies are predated by cats etc and out-competed for resources by rabbits. Indirect extinctions by human-introduced species are on-going of course, despite our efforts.

      And we mustn’t forget the role of the experts like the frog-ologists who carried the deadly chytrid fungal disease to the newly discovered mouth-brooding frogs and wiped them out within a few years. Global warming and the ozone hole got the blame of course.

      Some extinctions are fair dinkum, some are dodgy.

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    Another Ian

    “The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old… They literally know nothing”

    To be fair though, they’re now over 30. And they still know nothing.”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2019/10/09/27-yr-olds-they-know-nothing/#comment-1245693

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    el gordo

    Up thread I mentioned the Canberra Times article written by Katina Curtis, AAP Senior Political Writer. Its unsurprising that the MSM hasn’t touched the story as yet, because of its implications.

    The Canberra Times, unshackled from Fairfax, is saying we are an independent force and in that respect the whole ACM stable will gradually return to the centre. Antony Catalano (The Cat) is the new proprietor.

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    pat

    9 Oct: AFR: ‘Social value’ is good business for BHP
    Australia’s resources champion says “a disorderly” transition to a low-carbon world has the potential to threaten the viability of entire commodities in its product suite.
    Op-ed by Matthew Stevens
    BHP has told investors its oddly controversial decision to invest $US400 million trying to mitigate the greenhouse emissions of its customers is all about preserving markets and creating long-term shareholder value.
    “By making sure our own ‘house is in order’ and by protecting demand for our products, we will preserve and create value for BHP,” the global extractor’s chief external affairs officer Geoff Healy told an investor briefing overnight in London…READ ON
    https://www.afr.com/companies/mining/social-value-is-good-business-for-bhp-20191008-p52yqs

    8 Oct: BHP: Social Value Briefing
    Chief External Affairs Officer, Geoff Healy
    View the presentation
    View the news release
    Slide 4: Social value briefing – from licence to value
    If there is a phrase that gets to the heart of the evolution of our thinking it is: ‘from licence to value’.
    We believe we must move from ‘social licence’ to ‘social value’; or from ‘tolerance and acceptance’ to ‘trust and partnership’.
    We know this will be a challenging evolution.
    Today, I am going to explain why this transition – from licence to value underpins our strategy.
    And it is on this point that I want to be very clear.
    For us, it is – plain and simple – good business…

    Slide 6: The materials we provide are essential for modern life
    Our products aren’t optional or nice to have.
    They are not tailored to lifestyle choices that have readily available substitutes.
    To put it simply – our products are essential to every day life.
    Our iron ore and metallurgical coal provide the steel that underpins global economic development – from industrialisation to urbanisation, raising living standards for billions of people.
    Our oil, gas and energy coal products power global mobility – and everyday modern life.
    Our copper and nickel is essential in the transition to a lower-carbon future.
    Electric cars require four times as much copper as a standard car; and nickel sulphate is needed for the lithium-ion batteries that power those cars. And, every part of a wind turbine relies on copper or steel.
    And finally, our potash option could play a part in addressing food security issues as dietary patterns evolve and the world’s arable land diminishes.
    As we bring those products from the ground to the market, they also generate wealth across our value chain…

    Slide 12: Social value creation drives our competitive advantage
    Take Trion as an example – our oil development option in offshore Mexico. We were awarded the tender to develop this resource, making us the first international investor in Mexico to secure that right in 80 years.
    We believe it was our commitment to social as well as financial value that allowed us to seize this opportunity…
    https://www.bhp.com/media-and-insights/reports-and-presentations/2019/10/social-value-briefing

    9 Oct: SMH: For BHP, ‘social value’ key to staying competitive in a changing world
    By Nick Toscano
    The speech comes after a survey of 150 mining industry chief executives by Ernst & Young identified “maintaining social licence” amid ever-growing societal and community expectations as among the top risks facing their businesses…
    Demonstrating a commitment to social value, he said, could help win the company access to the “best talent, the best resources, the best markets, and set ourselves up for a sustained competitive advantage”…

    “We operate in regions that may impose, over time, increased carbon costs … this represents risk to our portfolio,” he said.
    “We recognise that we must work with our suppliers, customers and others to reduce these emissions across the value chain to protect demand for our products.”…
    https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/for-bhp-social-value-key-to-staying-competitive-in-a-changing-world-20191008-p52yrv.html

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    Another Ian

    Found this recently

    https://www.sheepcentral.com/need-for-rain-prompts-interest-in-climate-science/

    “INTEREST in non-conventional climate influencers is on the rise as conventional models watched by Australian agriculture continue to generate forecasts devoid of rain for drought-stricken areas.”

    Even has the MJO which hasn’t had a run for a while.

    After some thought I was reminded of our jigsaw puzzle system:-

    You are pretty sure that most of the pieces are in the box that you empty as are most of those defining the envelope.

    In the climate case you have no idea if the pieces you have in the box give anywhere near a complete picture and you’re pretty sure that they don’t define the envelope.

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    el gordo

    The Younger Dryas was an astronomical event, with philosophical implications.

    https://www.thegwpf.com/climate-history-may-have-to-be-re-written/

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      Greg in NZ

      A team of scientists from South Africa has discovered evidence partially supporting a hypothesis that Earth was struck by an asteroid 12 800 years ago, leading to global consequences including climate change, and contributing to the extinction of many species of large animals at the time of an episode called the Younger Dryas“.

      Meanwhile, a team of snow fiends in South Africa are excited about an expected snowfall tonight:

      https://snowreport.co.za/light-snow-hogsback-eastern-cape-lesotho-drakensberg/

      “Light snow may fall on the high-ground around Hogsback and other parts of the Eastern Cape, as well as on the high-peaks in the central and Southern Drakensberg and parts of Lesotho from Wednesday night… Very light falls and flurries may fall at altitudes as low as 1500m in the Eastern Cape from Wednesday night and into Thursday”.

      “The northern parts of the Eastern Cape are expected to be particularly cold, as is the Northern Cape”. Thankfully they didn’t mention anything about an asteroid.

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    Hanrahan

    I came in late on the discussion on Credlin but it seems some Navy type is finally talking nuclear subs.

    There are issues with nuclear, not the least being manning. We should do a lease deal where critical crew come with the boat. The French may be favourable to changing to the nuclear Barracuda class or the US has the Virginia class, already proven. We don’t need “boomers” of course.

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      robert rosicka

      The difference between nuke and diesel subs in performance are chalk and cheese ,why we never considered the option or even bothered to ask the navy what they wanted is beyond commonsense .

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    el gordo

    Morocco stalagmites reveal a solar minimum connection to a negative North Atlantic Oscillation, and precipitation in Western Europe during LIA.

    http://www.co2science.org/articles/V22/oct/a4.php

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    Another Ian

    “Believing in climate change doesn’t mean you are preparing for climate change, study finds”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/10/09/believing-in-climate-change-doesnt-mean-you-are-preparing-for-climate-change-study-finds/

    The flim-flams explained?

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    el gordo

    Warwick Hughes argues that flying fire tankers should be under the control of the RAAF.

    http://www.warwickhughes.com/blog/?p=6314

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    el gordo

    Irrefutable evidence that CO2 has had no impact on climate change in Lhasa.

    https://c3headlines.typepad.com/.a/6a010536b58035970c0240a4dc01e7200b-pi

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    el gordo

    ‘The shadow climate change minister, Mark Butler, has slapped down fellow frontbencher Joel Fitzgibbon, declaring Labor cannot support the Coalition’s 2030 emissions reduction target because it is inconsistent with the Paris agreement.’

    Guardian

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    neil

    Way back in 1990 the IPCC published an historical temperature record that included the medeval warming period “IPCC 1990 Report Figure 7c”, when they realised that the truth wasn’t scary eough, in 1992 they replaced it with the fraudulent Michael Mann “hocky stick” and have tried to expunge it from the internet ever since. I had lost a copy of it for many years but it has resurfaced.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/04/09/climate-alarmism-of-course-the-ipcc-was-designed-to-create-and-promote-it/

    It’s a great tool to show the deceit and hypocrisy of the IPCC.

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    el gordo

    Aunty reviews property portfolio.

    ‘The broadcaster’s managing director David Anderson has been reviewing ways to save $84 million over the next three years as he grapples with a funding freeze.’ SMH

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      yarpos

      Its all part of their managed coastal retreat strategy of course , moving from highly exposed city/coastal enclaves to the safer environs of Penrith, Logan and St Albans.

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      Bill in Oz

      The could sell of their beautiful
      Expensive Southbank building
      In Melbourne.
      After all it’s close to sea level
      And the Yarra river is about 100 meters away !
      The ABC could buy some ‘safe’ land
      Well away from sea level rise in say Research
      Where they would only have to deal with Bush fires instead !
      :-)

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    beowulf

    Here’s a scary thought. The EU’s incoming security chief has said the EU needs a standing army of 60,000 soldiers that Brussels can deploy around the world.

    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/10/09/eu-must-learn-language-power-needs-army-60000-brussels-diplomat/

    Someone here the other day was saying that Van der Leyen didn’t want an EU army, which is what she has said, but Germany already has at least 2 army brigades from other EU countries under its command.

    Unfortunately the UK is still signed up to provide its military to the EU via treaties that Theresa May entered into before she was deposed. These treaties are separate to Brexit. Boris must stop UK involvement at all costs.

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    Mervyn

    Homogenisation of temperatures … it’s scientific malfeasance… a fraud undertaken in the name of supporting the political agenda of catastrophic man-made global warming.

    As President Trump would say, “It’s fake temperature data.”

    How many people remember this?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdRG8RLSxU4

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    Carp

    Just an idea for disposing of waste plastic. Shred it, mix it with coal dust and make it into briquettes. It could then be burned in power stations. It would probably produce some nasties but the power station’s scrubbers could handle them.

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    RicDre

    Another parody from the The Babylon Bee which could one day soon actually happen:

    New Law Requires You To Listen To Greta Thunberg Lecture Before Purchasing Gasoline

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/10/08/new-law-requires-you-to-listen-to-greta-thunberg-lecture-before-purchasing-gasoline/

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    Ian George

    How to reduce the original temps in the past to get the result the alarmists want.
    Bouke’s Jan 1939 temps changed every day using ACORN 1 and 2 – and reduced.
    Every temp over 31C reduced. Four temps under 31C increased – must have some balance.

    Bourke Jan 1939
    Jan raw ACORN1 ACORN2
    1st 38.9 38.4 38.1
    2nd 40.0 39.1 39.3
    3rd 42.2 41.9 41.3
    4th 38.1 37.9 37.6
    5th 38.9 38.4 38.1
    6th 41.7 41.5 40.9
    7th 41.7 41.5 40.9
    8th 43.4 43.0 42.7
    9th 46.1 45.7 45.4
    10th 48.3 47.9 47.6
    11th 47.2 46.8 46.5
    12th 46.2 45.8 45.5
    13th 45.7 45.3 45.0
    14th 46.1 45.7 45.4
    15th 47.2 46.8 46.5
    16th 46.7 46.3 46.0
    17th 40.0 39.1 39.3
    18th 40.1 39.1 39.3
    19th 40.0 39.1 39.3
    20th 41.9 41.7 41.0
    21st 42.5 42.1 41.7
    22nd 44.2 43.8 43.5
    23rd 36.7 36.5 36.3
    24th 40.3 39.2 39.4
    25th 36.6 36.5 36.2
    26th 29.4 29.5 30.0
    27th 29.3 29.4 29.9
    28th 28.8 28.9 29.2
    29th 30.6 30.5 31.3
    30th 35.6 35.4 35.3
    31st 38.6 38.3 38.0
    Monthly mean
    Raw 40.4
    ACORN1 40.03
    ACORN2 39.88

    Must gave moved the w/s every day.

    50

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      I wonder when BOM staff will
      Acknowledge that they are spreading fake ‘data’
      I wonder when BOM staff will
      realise that they are being used
      By ideologues to generate propaganda !

      20

      • #
        Greg in NZ

        The cooler it was, the hotter it is: BøM’s mission statement.

        Except: -7.6˚C at Perisher Valley this morning, -4.5 Thredbo, -2.7 Mt Hotham.

        I’ve heard nothing about the four- to five-day COLD WAVE sweeping up over VIC and NSW this week, the snow flurries, the sub-zero temps, frosts… nuffink! Just lots of useless idiots shouting about how ‘hot’ the planet is. I’m confused; just exactly which planet are they on?

        Meanwhile a lovely chilly spring day on your slopes at Perisher, NSW at 10 am and the chairlifts are still running – beautiful day!

        https://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Perisher-Blue/webcams/latest

        20

  • #
    Another Ian

    “A new Big Bang is brewing – unimpeded climate activists are assuming control and demanding a truly impossible energy transition. Things are about to get wild”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2019/10/09/a-new-big-bang-is-brewing-unimpeded-climate-activists-are-assuming-control-and-demanding-a-truly-impossible-energy-transition-things-are-about-to-get-wild/

    30

  • #
    David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

    Morning all,
    From our ABC’s “Just In”, something which could make you laugh at its absurdity if can get to read any of it.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-10/three-types-of-climate-change-denier-most-of-us-at-least-one/11587924

    But the first link within it does give an ongoing link to the letter which was sent to the top UN honcho. And there are some familiar names amongst the authors. That is worth reading.
    Cheers
    Dave B

    50

    • #
      robert rosicka

      What a great load of garbage the ABC have outdone themselves with help from the “one way conversation ” ,these far left radical doomsayers funded from the government tit need to be defunded and called out for printing and reprinting this garbage .
      There is no research here just a one sided opinion .

      30

    • #
      el gordo

      Members of the Denialati interpret the science and contest the klimatariat’s so called ‘facts’.

      10

    • #
      Bulldust

      The original article is from The Conversation, which the ABC simply luuuuurves to reproduce at every opportunity:

      https://theconversation.com/there-are-three-types-of-climate-change-denier-and-most-of-us-are-at-least-one-124574

      I have jumped in with a couple of pointed comments (although very moderately worded IMHO), so let’s see how long they stay up.

      30

      • #
        Bulldust

        Forgot to mention… love how they set about banning anyone with a contrary opinion, and then set about “going full r*t*rd” as they said in Tropic Thunder. You never go full…

        Part of me says, just let them carry on because they’ll drive away all the moderates. Another part of me loves the sport of needling them, albeit with very moderate comments.

        10

      • #
        • #
          AndyG55

          As oppose to GA the dried leaf ?

          20

        • #
          Bulldust

          Never been a secret Gee Aye. My real name was associated with an article on this site some time back. A lot of people only know me as Bulldust IRL … so hardly an attempt to stay anonymous. Besides, Bulldust is the person (i.e. me) who coined ClimateGate, so it seems appropriate to stick with the handle for climate discussions.

          20

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Ad Hominems by the truckload from the ABC. Lets attack the ‘deniers’ (with name calling/labeling) never mind the FACTS they present.
      These people make me ill.

      “The language of climate change denial alarmism and inaction has abuse of skeptics transformed.

      Outright science denial has been replaced by efforts to reframe climate change as natural (well of course it is, PROVE it isnt!), and climate action as unwarranted.” climate action as unwarranted is a international scam.

      10

      • #
        Bulldust

        Ahh but it’s not the ABC’s words, you see. This is a The Conversation article reproduced by the ABC. It gives them plausible deniability when the authors go berserk (verbally).

        30

  • #
    Robber

    in The Australian today: We won’t let the system go dark.
    “Australia needed to develop better markets to ensure the system didn’t “go dark”, said Audrey Zibelman, the chief executive of the Australian Energy Market Operator. She said there was a surplus of renewable energy with more than 15MW of capacity added to the market every day, but that markets were not yet willing to pay to make that supply reliable.”
    “Ms Zibelman said a day-ahead system would make the market more competitive and might require renewable generators to contract with coal plants to guarantee supply was delivered at the right time.” “What we need to recognise is that we have a surplus of energy because of course we have the wind and the solar, but we have a deficit of the dispatchable capability and the flexibility and the markets just don’t pay for that dispatchable capability.”
    When will our governments wake up? Intermittent generators like wind and solar are costly because they must be 100% backed up by reliable generators – coal and gas, with a bit of hydro. So double the investment, and all trying to make a profit. Yes, there is 6,900 MW of installed wind generator capacity, but on average that delivers just 2,100 MW and on occasion barely 200 MW. And solar delivers up to 6,000 MW, but only in the middle of the day when the sun shines, so on average just 1,300 MW, and at night zero. Oh, and that “world’s biggest battery” in SA can store or deliver just 100 MW for about 80 minutes. Total demand on the AEMO grid currently varies on a daily basis from 18,000 MW to 28,000 MW, but capacity must be available to meet peak evening summer demand of up to 34,000 MW without wind or solar.
    Yet politicians and bureaucrats still refuse to admit that policies forcing more intermittent “renewables” into the system drive up prices.

    70

    • #
      Graeme#4

      The Grattan Institute graph is very misleading. It shows the NEG influencing energy prices, but the NEG never got off the ground. Also if the graph had started earlier, say 2003, then the impact of the renewables and their subsidies could clearly be seen to influence energy prices.

      20

  • #
  • #
    RicDre

    Back from the dead: Some corals regrow after ‘fatal’ warming

    https://phys.org/news/2019-10-dead-corals-regrow-fatal.html

    30

  • #
    TdeF

    In response to #40, my view the letter does not go far enough but I did sign it.

    I have a real concern that Australia in leaving out all data before 1910 has biased the entire planet to warming, when it may not be true. It is impossible to be a denier when what is being alleged is not proven. Denier presumes there is some absolute truth, when the whole thing is a political construct with a purpose, not a scientific conclusion. Now they have called on the army of the actors, the students, the children, the scared and the vulnerable when the people running this know it is not true.

    That was true of L Ron Hubbard, Jim Jones, various Swamis and many inventors of world religions and cults. Opportunists all. Consider all the world’s religions cannot be true simultaneously. It is a big jump then to expect any one of them to be right, so we are all deniers of all but one religion and perhaps not even one. Climate Change is a state sponsored religion, voodoo science practiced by failed voodoo scientists and a lot more along for the ride.

    What is certain though is that man made CO2 has no part in any warming. That is because there is almost none, just another plausible idea based on correlation, coincidence not proof. This is Chicken Little stuff at $1,500,000,000,000 a year. It is destroying Western democracies and all engineered by the globalists at the UN.

    The real tragedy is that so much real good could have been done. Imagine what good could have been done in the last 30 years? Consider that we might have solved fusion energy. The windmills will wear out quickly and the solar panels and the fossil fuels will run out soon enough, but we could have had infinite energy, forever.

    And the world gets on with constructing airports in the oceans, building cities at sea level and damming giant rivers and shipping vast quantities of coal, iron ore, concrete and using coal power to make everything and keep us alive in the highest standard of living ever experienced by humans. Electric cars are nonsense but hybrids are a good idea in stopping waste. We need biodegradable plastic more than ever with a booming world population. With enough energy, we could recycle all plastics, not just metals.

    In the US steel is 90% recycled today. Aluminum. Plastic though is dumped and ends up in the oceans, so much from China and India. And while our councils are dumping in Asia, the Chinese are dumping in the Atlantic. Recycling of plastic is simply too costly with (Green) electricity prices. Ironic isn’t it.

    The letter is a good start. We are not deniers. It is simply not true.

    40

  • #
    Hugh

    The “Men in White Coats” … At It Again !!!

    I downloaded the latest IPCC Report in full yesterday morning.

    The very first comparison I made between text and reference was interesting.

    The paper cited in the IPCC report is:
    Stevens et al: “Trends in reported flooding in the UK: 1884–2013″.

    Here is what the IPCC Report says of flood trends in the UK, referencing this paper:

    (At 3.3.5.1 of the Report):

    “Stevens et al. (2016) found a rise in the number of reported floods in the United Kingdom during the period 1884–2013, with flood events appearing more frequently towards the end of the 20th century.”

    End of reference to the Stevens article.

    But here is what Stevens et al. (2016) actually say:

    “This paper develops a 100+ year national dataset of 785 notable flood events in the UK. … The dataset indicates an increase in reported flood events during the 20th/21st century and significant variation from decade to decade. However, normalizing the data by population and number of dwellings removes any long-term temporal trend and leaves a strong decadal variability.” (My emphasis.)

    !!!

    90

    • #
      Greg in NZ

      Plus there weren’t a lot of mobile phone cameras (nor twits nor tweets) nor satellites in 1884 – unless I missed something in History class.

      30

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      “However, normalizing the data by population and number of dwellings removes any long-term temporal trend and leaves a strong decadal variability’
      Run that past me again…..so population is what causes ‘decadal variability ..in weather…um….

      There are nothing out of the ordinary in floods in real data.
      But then what else would you expect from an IPCC (Int Panel of Climate Criminals) report.

      10

    • #
      Hugh

      “Less Snow … More Avalanches!!” More Flake News from IPCC?

      From the Press Release accompanying the Full Report:

      “People in mountain regions are increasingly exposed to hazards and changes in water availability, the report said.

      Glaciers, snow, ice and permafrost are declining and will continue to do so. This is projected to increase hazards for people, for example through landslides, avalanches, rockfalls and floods.” (emphasis added)

      Er: avalanches … from declining snow? Presumably only up to a point … ie mean, Ayers Rock hasn’t had too many avalanches recently.

      Still and all, I was curious as to what the Full Report did say about increasing avalanches with snow decline. Maybe they had a plausible story.

      I searched “avalanche”, “aval”, “mountain”.

      As far as I can tell, there’s not a single mention of avalanches in the Full Report!

      Nor even in the Summary For Policy Makers.

      10

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        ‘More Flake News from IPCC?’….basically treat the IPCC as a group of used car salesmen..

        20

        • #
          Greg in NZ

          Rutgers Global Snow Lab, Northern Hemi Winter Snow Extent 1967-2019: flat trend with a slight increase:

          https://climate.rutgers.edu/snowcover/chart_seasonal.php?ui_set=nhland&ui_season=1

          Mt Ruapehu stratovolcano (9,000 ft) central North Island: 3+ metres snow base, chairlifts closed today due to snow/gales & “poor weather”. Avalanche Warning on ‘Moderate Risk’.

          https://www.metservice.com/skifields/whakapapa

          That Idiot Pack of Commie Crooks – and used car salesmen – need to get outdoors a little more: those ™climate control™ UN offices are obviously frying their noggins. I’m too scared to click on that ‘Full Report’ link, Hugh – I’ve downloaded other stuff of theirs and ended up with a headache & blurry vision: legalese mumbo-jumbo does that to me. Snowing till Christmas??? :-)

          20

          • #
            Hugh

            :-) Greg,(and Real Universe): indeed! But in all fairness I think we shouldn’t unjustly malign used-car salesmen by tarring them with the same brush.

            20

            • #
              Greg in NZ

              True that. Only ever gave money to a used-car salesman once and that trusty EH Holden stationwagon got me from Maroochydore to Margaret River and up-and-down the coast of WA (on-road and off-road – oh the places you shall go!). Was a sad day when I sold her for a one-way ticket to Bali and beyond…

              The UN-slash-IPCC want money for nothing in return. I mean, who do they think they are, the world government?

              20

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Friend of mine that just had solar installed is getting upset at how often it shuts down due to overvoltage ,texted me yesterday saying his line voltage was at 256 volts .

    40

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Can’t believe they cut power to large areas of California in an effort to stop bushfires ,here in Victoriastan the power goes out when it’s hot anyway so maybe they got the idea from us .

    https://news.ntd.com/lights-out-power-cut-in-california-to-prevent-deadly-fires_390539.html?fbclid=IwAR2XDKUwTmR8_QbXN7-OmYzvXjaJHteN1sSEDZPukm_B9UtBPkpLXUAt190

    30

  • #
    pat

    why include the “appalling weather” line when it’s an arson story, ABC?

    9 Oct: ABC: NSW bushfires that destroyed dozens of homes may have been deliberately lit, authorities say
    Four separate blazes ripped through several areas in northern NSW yesterday, with much of the damage in the areas of Rappville and Ewingar.
    NSW Emergency Services Minister David Elliott has described the deliberate lighting of a bushfire which destroyed ***21 homes in the state’s north as “a bastard act”…

    NSW Rural Fire Service (RFS) superintendent Michael Brett said initial investigations indicated that blaze, which started on Friday night, was “suspicious”.
    “We have identified suspicious activity in that area,” he said.
    Local police will lead the investigation, and be assisted by the State Crime Command’s arson squad.
    “It really is a bastard act if you are going to put your own community at risk,” Mr Elliott said.
    “If that has been proven to be the case that will be handed over to police and charges I’m sure will be laid.”
    NSW Police Superintendent Toby Lindsay said “significant prosecution” would be pursued.
    “And anyone who has information is urged to provide that to Crime Stoppers … it may be the last piece of the puzzle we need to take action,” he said.

    ***Appalling weather conditions yesterday meant fires flared and burnt through thousands of hectares of land.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-09/northern-nsw-bushfires-believed-to-be-deliberately-lit/11585108

    I heard on radio this morning that fires plural may be arson, but impossible to find full details so far. a brief mention in this news bulletin:

    AUDIO: 1min32sec: 9 Oct: 92.5FM: Arson could be a possibility in some Queensland bushfires
    https://omny.fm/shows/news-goldfm925/arson-could-be-a-possibility-in-some-queensland-bu

    9 Oct: River949: Premier claims at least one fire deliberately lit during bushfires
    Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk says there are concerns at least one of the fires ***which forced hundreds of residents in the Lockyer Valley*** to flee their homes was deliberately lit.
    Several fires impacted the towns of Laidley, Thornton, Townson and Grandchester yesterday with one property destroyed.
    Firefighters have contained the blazes and police are continuing to investigate.
    https://www.river949.com.au/news/local-news/103154-premier-claims-at-least-one-fire-deliberately-lit-during-bushfires

    10 Oct: news.com.au: Lockyer Valley: Blackened earth after ‘burning cauldron’ bushfire
    Queensland’s Lockyer Valley has been described as a “burning cauldron” with bushfires tearing through 10,000 hectares but miraculously only claiming one house.
    by Christine Flatley and Nicholas McElroy, AAP’
    (scroll down) Police are still doing their investigations but there is concern about one of the fires at this stage being deliberately lit,” said Qld Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk.
    ***She did not say which one…
    https://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/news/lockyer-valley-blackened-earth-after-burning-cauldron-bushfire/news-story/cdf801b40d1ce7daf5dd8442ad3e4371

    I specifically heard police have dashcam or other video showing suspicious activity of 2 boys on a motorbike. MSM is not interested in any of this. it doesn’t fit the heatwave/bushfire narrative. heard ABC Brisbane this morning mentioning temps dropped yesterday, still ignoring that they actually dropped Tuesday, when we were promised by BoM and reported by all, that we would get 36C and only got 30C briefly.

    30

  • #
    Chad

    TdeF
    Aluminium is a highly recycled metal due to its value and its low energy requirement for reprocessing. It is also one of the simplest materials to separate out from the waste stream.
    Wiki says ..
    “approximately 36% of all aluminium produced in the United States comes from old recycled scrap.[2] Used beverage containers are the largest component of processed aluminum scrap, and most of it is manufactured back into aluminium cans.”
    But remember that 36% represents a much higher % of the Al in the waste stream.

    Plastics are hard to separate, multiple different types, difficult to identify, ( needs a high manual labour input,) and difficult to reprocess…as well as low value when completed.
    Best incinerated to recover some energy content !

    50

    • #
      TdeF

      Agree. The best statistic is that the cost of making aluminum (American spelling) is 90% electricity. Henry Bolte invited Alcoa to Australia in the 1950s to help with our excess generation at night, along with half price hot water services and more. It has been a political football ever since. The first was to move it to Portland, doubling the price of electricity because it was 1,000km away and the 50% line losses. In China aluminum smelters are next to the power stations. However the politicians created jobs and votes as far from the power generation as possible.

      Now with Green energy and the RET crippling prices for both coal and gas, Victoria and the Federal Government and Alcoa met and my reading of this is that we, the taxpayers, now subsidize wages at $80,000 per person. Similarly with Whyalla for steel and Port Pirie for lead and presumably Port Kembla, where they are simply uneconomic and we pretend they are not and the payments are secret. The public purse is raided silently for hundreds of millions a year. This is on top of the so called ‘subsidies’ which are nothing more than theft from your electricity bills, doubled.

      Still I am surprised the recycling is so low for valuable aluminum. Steel recycling was a joke until the invention of mini mills by NUCOR who are now the biggest steel maker in the US and they only recycle. At one stage the price of scrap exceeded the price of new steel, so rapacious are the mills. In Ukraine people stole the man hole covers at night, causing chaos. Aluminum cars though are becoming popular, saving huge weight. My car is 350Kg lighter as everything is aluminum or alloy and carbon fibre. I think most will be aluminum within 20 years, while virtue signalling CO2 generating battery cars are 600kg heavier.

      As for plastics, sure the best recycling is combustion , but the Greens make it impossible so councils collect them, people sort them and contractors take them away. To end up in annual accidental fires like Coolaroo in Melbourne or compressed in containers and dumped on Asian beaches. The Chinese dump their plastic far away in the Atlantic where most of the plastic is Asian, 75% Chinese and 90% of the Chinese plastic bottles washed up on the beaches have last year’s date, half a world away. So much for recycling.

      So recycling is a mess, except for the surprise recycling of steel. It could all be so much better, but the irrational greens do not want you to burn plastic and do not want you to use electricity to recycle it all. Recycling is a Green myth. We all pay for it in high council rates and they simply contract it out and it doesn’t happen. The Coolaroo company just closed after years of massive dangerous accidental fires. Green is the colour of fake, faux conservationists and faux Climate Change Hollywood jetsetters. If you could generate power from hypocrisy, Hollywood and Canberra and Washington could power the world.

      40

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        At least the Bluff(NZ SI) smelter is powered by water. (Greg, still true?)

        20

        • #
          Greg in NZ

          When it’s not being powered by Force 10 gales roaring through Foveaux Strait (350± days a year) yep, Manapouri Dam on the edge of Fiordland supplies the hydro-electricity (13% of NZ’s total output). Below is a link to Tiwai Aluminium Smelter itself – a lovely aerial pic taken on one of those rare (15 per year) calm sunny days, as well as pics of a bunch of happy smiling workers. I lived across the harbour in Bluff for 6 years, it was a love/hate thing for me: the sight, the smell, the sounds; yet southern right whales and orca/dolphins would often cruise through the channel, as well as a few other big ugly critters with sharp pointy teeth (no, not Comrade Jacinda)…

          https://www.nzas.co.nz/

          From 2015: “Meridian will now supply most of the smelter’s 572 megawatts of power, but fuel 80 megawatts from Contact Energy into that mix… The smelter meanwhile reiterated that its power was still too dear”, 1/3 of what we peasants are charged. “Critics say… the Government’s $30 million grant [is] little more than corporate welfare, and that the company [Rio Tinto] has complained about costs often in the past and has never followed through with threats to pull out of New Zealand”.

          https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/280319/tiwai-point-smelter-to-remain-open

          The weather for Tiwai/Bluff/Invercargill tomorrow: max temp 8˚C [46˚F] with snow to 600 m [2,000'] on the hills. Hey, it’s still October – ouch!

          00

      • #
        Chad

        Alcoa used to have a large aluminium recycling facility in Sydney. (Yennora) .coupled to a large rolling mill ( can stock) and extrusion plant ( door and window frames).
        It was closed in 2014 primarily due to labour and energy costs. And low demand cost implications
        The Point Henry (Vic) rolling mill also closed, such that now there is no Aluminium rolling capacity in Au….a signal of the de-industrialisation of Australia.
        “A country without a car manufacturing industry, is not a first world nation !”

        50

        • #
          Chad

          I intended to add that Australia’s Aluminium waste is still recycled , but it is now done overseas ( Korea ?) after collection, compaction, and containerisation for shipment..
          Thus the economic benefit of reuse is gained by overseas entities instead of Au.

          50

    • #
      Graeme#4

      We should be high-temp incinerating all waste except for green waste. An excellent summary is the GWPF article by Mikko Paunio, “Save The Oceans- Stop Recycling Plastic”. Definitely worth a read.
      I see where Cleanaway has purchased all the waste From SKM, but no mention of what they plan to do with all the stored waste.

      40

      • #
        TdeF

        Yes. Of course. Minimal transferral of biohazards too. It is essential though that the exhaust is scrubbed for heavy metals.
        Plus you can expect that we will be forced to pay again for disposing of the SKM waste while the land has become more valuable and
        could be used for development, as always.

        20

        • #
          Graeme#4

          Its interesting that some countries also process their sewerage residue in the same furnaces.
          And apparently there is money to be made from the extraction of metals from the ash.
          Also the heat energy generated can be used to provide power.

          10

  • #
    pat

    yesterday:

    9 Oct: ABC: Labor frontbencher Joel Fitzgibbon wants his party to adopt the Coalition’s climate policies
    By political reporter Jade Macmillan
    In a speech to be delivered tonight, Labor’s agriculture and resources spokesman will say Australians are “inherently conservative” and the Opposition should consider a less ambitious climate plan.
    “Labor needs to reach a sensible settlement on climate change,” a copy of his speech states.
    “How many times are we going to let it kill us? Indeed, how many leaders do we want to lose to it?”…
    “A political settlement would also restore investment confidence and for the first time in six years, we could have some downward pressure on energy prices.”

    Mr Fitzgibbon is from the party’s right faction and represents the NSW electorate of Hunter, where coal mining is a major industry…
    He will argue even the most progressive Australian voters could be fearful of change if it threatened their financial security…
    “The [Coalition's] ‘no change’ message worked so well on May 18 because so many Australians saw a threat in Labor’s suite of policies,” the speech states.
    “The coal miners I represent were amongst them, so too were my retired mineworkers. Labor’s equivocation over the Adani coal mine left us in no man’s land.”…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-10-09/joel-fitzgibbons-a-less-ambitious-labor-climate-plan/11585176

    today:

    10 Oct: Guardian: Moderate Liberal MPs sign on to crossbench-led climate action group
    Parliamentary Friends of Climate Action aims to serve as a safe place for climate policy, away from ‘partisan politics’
    by Amy Remeikis
    PIC: Independent MPs Rebekha Sharkie, Helen Haines and Zali Steggall lead Parliamentary Friends of Climate Action, which seeks to cross the political divide.

    Tim Wilson, Dave Sharma, Jason Falinski, Katie Allen, Angie Bell and Trent Zimmerman are among the Liberal MPs to sign up to the Parliamentary Friends of Climate Action group, along with Labor’s Ged Kearney and Josh Burns as well as Adam Bandt from the Greens and Andrew Wilkie.
    Established by Rebekha Sharkie and Kerryn Phelps late last year, the independent Helen Haines has stepped into Phelps’ role as co-chair, with Zali Steggall to serve as deputy chair…
    The group aims to serve as a safe place for climate action…

    Speaking to the ABC, the outgoing Liberal senator Arthur Sinodinos said he believed the “uncertainty over policy” had settled within the Liberal party room.
    While some of his soon-to-be former colleagues, such as Eric Abetz, claimed to be “agnostics” about the climate science, Sinodinos said he believed we have to “act in accordance with the science”…
    “The science can always change, of course,” he said. “Beautiful theories are slain by ugly facts. But the fact of the matter is as policymakers we have to act on the best advice available …

    “The best information available from our scientific agencies, from the CSIRO, from the international bodies and are relevant to this, I can’t sit here and make a judgment against those sorts of bodies and I don’t believe that these bodies are somehow engaged in some global conspiracy on this topic.

    “This is a very, very difficult problem we’re dealing with. I know why some people find it hard to deal with because it requires taking a whole series of actions over a very extended period that sometimes we find hard to get our heads around. The fact of the matter is we have to get on and keep dealing with the issue.”…
    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/oct/10/moderate-liberal-mps-sign-on-to-crossbench-led-climate-action-group

    30

    • #
      pat

      Abbott Abbott Abbott:

      9 Oct: Guardian: Mark Butler condemns Labor frontbencher’s plan to adopt Coalition climate policy
      Shadow climate change minister says Joel Fitzgibbon’s suggestion is inconsistent with Paris agreement
      by Katharine Murphy
      The shadow climate change minister, Mark Butler, has slapped down fellow frontbencher Joel Fitzgibbon, declaring Labor cannot support the Coalition’s 2030 emissions reduction target because it is inconsistent with the Paris agreement.
      Fitzgibbon, who suffered a significant swing against him in his coalmining seat in the Hunter Valley in the May election, used a speech on Wednesday to argue the ALP should offer “a political and policy settlement” on climate policy “to make 28% the target by 2030”…

      “As I’ve said a number of times since the election, we remain committed to implementing the principles of the Paris agreement, which are to keep global warming well below 2C and pursue efforts around 1.5C,” the shadow climate change minister said.
      “We will have a mid-century target of zero emissions and medium-term targets which are consistent with the agreement – and the government’s target, which was developed by Tony Abbott with no expert advice, is fundamentally inconsistent with the Paris agreement.
      “It would lead to global warming of more than 3C and, for that reason, Labor cannot support that target.
      “That has been a consistent position of ours since we first took advice about what Tony Abbott’s target would mean for climate change.”…

      “We will support medium-term targets that are consistent with the Paris agreement and based on the best available advice we can get,” Butler said. “Labor’s position [prior to the election] was based on advice from the Climate Change Authority, the body set up by the parliament to advise on these things. The government’s target was dreamed up by Tony Abbott.”…

      Despite Butler’s efforts to hold the line, there is a view within the New South Wales right, the faction of which Fitzgibbon is a member, that Labor needs to seek a position of bipartisanship with the government to build support in regional NSW and Queensland, which swung to the Coalition in May.
      Soon after the election loss, another member of the NSW right, Tony Burke, suggested Labor should radically overhaul its election policy offering but not wind back the level of ambition.
      https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/oct/09/mark-butler-condemns-labor-frontbenchers-plan-for-settlement-on-climate-change

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  • #
    John Watt

    Tony,
    One other issue is the network cost…55 wind stations needing to be connected to consumers to achieve the same useful result as a single coal-fired behemoth.Even if some of the wind power is generated closer to some consumers it still looks like a gross dis-economy of scale.

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  • #
    pat

    ABC – forget the election:

    AUDIO: 10 Oct: ABC Overnights: Trevor Chappell
    What is business doing in recognition of a changing climate – what opportunities do they see? What could be the economic benefits? What about farmers – are they doing their bit?
    https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/overnights/overnights/11572832

    (paraphrasing) intro 2hr00min40sec: Chappell: some people believe in CAGW, some don’t, but businesses are doing something, including insurance companies. Dr. John Hewson will join us. (SONG “BIG YELLOW TAXI”)

    ***Chappell at 2hr06min34: reads text from listener: Ask John Hewson if CAGW is a wealth redistribution scheme. Chappell: righto. i’ll do that. will give it a try. (SPOILER ALERT: CHAPPELL DOESN’T BOTHER TO ASK.)

    2h13min55sec: John Hewson. talk has moved from electricity to how we can export RE; 97% of peer-reviewed climate scientists agree. increasing prevalence of extreme weather; student protests; every poll & survey in recent years shows everyone – business, civil society – is on the same page. business won’t fund coal. there’s an awakening in the financial industry – Super funds, pension funds etc. the big funds – $45trillion assets under management were exposed under climate risk. now understand that. global orgs like Bloomberg know it’s a big risk.

    Chappell: does that mean they know fossil fuels are going to go?
    Hewson: shouldn’t have too much exposure to coal cos. RE good. gradual process of accepting the science. pensions/super funds have to be managed long-term to maximise their returns so, if they take long-term risks, because they have exposure to climate-related risks, then they’ll move on CAGW. something like 70% of coal cannot be mined or burned.

    2hr47min28sec: Chappell: is business doing something about solar panel/battery WASTE?
    as a former politician, Hewson talks around the question. we have the graphite & lithium; we can export RE, be the envy of the world etc. UK, Germany, coming out of coal, change behaviour. change industrial processes. power, transport, agriculture, transition.
    ***re WASTE, he merely slips in it’s a business opportunity where we can invest or something.

    ***Hewson ends with CAGW concensus amongst all the British political parties; Theresa May’s final act – declaring a climate emergency. our political parties need to come together and get with the CAGW program.
    ENDS: 2ht55min

    20

    • #
      Another Ian

      More from him

      “‘Bio-economy’ focusing on lowering carbon footprint can benefit Australia’s ag sector says John Hewson ”

      https://www.queenslandcountrylife.com.au/story/6429535/bio-economy-can-benefit-rural-australia/?cs=4699

      30

      • #
        AndyG55

        Hewson = “has-been”, or is it “never-was”

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      • #
        beowulf

        “We have the feedstock even in drought areas spread right across the country.”

        What planet does this cretin live on? Has he ever got his boots dusty? Has he ever set foot outside any capital city? Has he ever seen a drought? Has he any idea of the scarcity and cost of plant material during a drought? Has he ever heard of soil carbon?

        You and I know that agricultural “waste” is not wasted garbage: it is organic matter that needs to be incorporated back into the soil either directly as crop residues or via an animal as manure, or we end up with soil like concrete and cumulative diminished productive capacity.

        In the previous comment, did Hewson declare his financial interest in big-battery sales along with his mate Finkel?

        00

  • #
    pat

    meanwhile, twice on community radio stations around the country overnight:

    AUDIO: 5min21sec: 9 Oct: TheWireRadio: Extinction Rebellion Protests Ramp Up
    Produced By: Kvitka Becker
    Featured in story
    Jamie Dunn, Organiser with Extinction Rebellion
    Clive Hamilton, Professor of Public Ethics at Charles Sturt University
    Their rebellion is a response to what protesters call inadequate action on the ecological crisis facing our planet…
    The Wire’s, Kvitka Becker spoke with one of the organisers of the South Australian leg of the Extinction Rebellion protest and with an author of a book about the history of Australian protests…
    http://thewire.org.au/story/extinction-rebellion-protests-ramp-up/

    (paraphrasing) Clive Hamilton: XR & student strikes & the broader forms of activism etc – they represent a world historical protest movement in Australia and every other nation, in effect. it is not going away. because the warming earth and increasing prevalence of extreme weather events are not going to stop, they are going to get worse, so the protest are going to gather in strength. (UN/GRETA OVER SOME SONG OR ANOTHER)
    Hamilton: Greta will be remembered in the history books as an exceptionally important player
    in the world history of climate action.

    ***Clive thinks the hysterical reaction to Greta, particularly from older, white men on the conservative side of politics, is an expression of how threatened they feel by this young woman. the kind of vitriol and vicious abuse she has received – as you mentioned, because she’s on the spectrum, she’s been called mentally ill – is an insult to anyone on the spectrum, & is an illustration of just how frustrated and angry these old white men feel.

    20

  • #
    Greg in NZ

    I don’t do ball sports, oh no! Climate Change™ now endangers international thugby!

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/sport/400646/world-rugby-could-cancel-world-cup-games

    Typhoon Haggis “forecast to sweep through the Tokyo area where two games are scheduled for this weekend”. C’mon boys, be men, it’s only a little wind and rain… Haka the Haggis and scare it away!

    http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/products/tc_realtime/storm.asp?storm_identifier=WP202019

    Typhoon Hagibis stats & satellite. It’s been a below-average season so far for whirly-storms. Time to crank-up the bs department and fear and exaggeration and lies?

    30

  • #
    theRealUniverse

    Once upon a time. There was a CO2 theory…

    Happy was a contented little CO2 molecule. One day as he was relaxing a nasty IR photon hit him in the head, gotta watch out for those things, he got really excited and started dancing around bashing into his neighbours, who happened to be Mr N2 and Mrs O2 who also got mad. Then to relieve himself and his frustration he threw a hissy fit and shot off 2 more IR photons at much higher energy towards the ground with a thud, There thatll teach them! The ground got all fired up and started to dance around bashing other molecules then they all got real mad. More IR photons kept hitting poor little happy and he shot of more higher energy IR at the ground, oh dear we have a problem now, the other molecules lower than me are getting so mad they might fire back, But no, they could only fire downwards, which made the ground really mad and it started to catch fire! Next day there was a rumble as Mr cloud got mad too about Happy’s little dance and let loose millions of its water molecules, a great flood occurred, all because of that nasty little IR photon that hit happy in the head.

    Such things this science.

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  • #
    Peter C

    Jon Faine retires from ABC
    :-)

    But his place will be taken by Virginia Triolli
    :-(

    30

  • #
    Another Ian

    A matches test update.

    Recently we had an overnight fall of 3.5 mm, which didn’t do a lot for the drought, except to ruin another “zero” month.

    The next morning the humidity was sufficient that the only box of “Redhead” matches (AKA FUM Brand} from which ANY would strike was the one stored in one of those old round tobacco tins.

    Are the fire bugs using BIC lighters these days?

    Our recent rainfall score btw

    May 7 mm, June 0, July 0, August 1.5, September 4.5.

    Really just ruining a good drought.

    (FUM Brand – F’in Useless Matches)

    50

  • #
    Hanrahan

    PG&E disconnecting 730 customers for at least 48 hrs, as a precautionary principle.

    Meanwhile Governor Newsome signs a bill outlawing small plastic bottles of shampoo in hotel rooms. Gotta keep the priorities. :)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m1xcX_X0wc

    10

  • #

    Wind power fulfills the promise of political power–the time derivative or rate at which people can be rendered lifeless. In the case of turbines, it is the rate at which birds are chopped to bits, perhaps as a foretaste of things to come…

    10

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