JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Weekend Unthreaded

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Rating: 8.4/10 (26 votes cast)
Weekend Unthreaded, 8.4 out of 10 based on 26 ratings

451 comments to Weekend Unthreaded

  • #
    Lance

    Interesting treatment for dementia and alzheimers.

    No drugs, no surgery. Just a bunch of electromagnetic waves.

    After 2 month of treatment, 85% of the trial group showed reversal of Alzheimer’s / Dementia.

    Large scale clinical trials in 2020.

    Expects to be on market in 2021.

    https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/326401.php

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    • #
      Yonniestone

      Great news, lets make a giant electromagnetic wave machine and point it over the next Climate Panic day rally, there is hope!

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      • #
        theRealUniverse

        ‘Our recent studies have provided initial insight into the long-term impact of adulthood EMF exposure (GSM, pulsed/modulated, 918 MHz,’..
        Great, just chat on your mobile (next to your head) for 12 hours a day.

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    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Interesting. I’d have trouble remembering all the slobbering lawyers just waiting for something to allow them to hit the jackpot with a big suit against cell phone manufacturers. And now everyone is on that bandwagon, “Oh, just wait. We’re studying the effects of RF and any day now we should find the killer hiding among the sines and cosines in everything electric from A to Z.”

      It’s non ionizing so I’m thinking the danger begins and ends with whether or not it produces too much heat.

      I met a guy once who in a prior career had been a microwave engineer. According to him their lab had a big horn at one end and on a cold morning they would turn on the power and stand in front of that horn to warm up. He didn’t appear to be suffering any from the exposure.

      If among all the blaming fingers pointing out the horrible danger we can’t quite find there’s one finger pointing at something beneficial let’s shout it from the rooftops.

      As with many other things, the dose makes the poison.

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      • #
        theRealUniverse

        Ok, RF at certain frequencies and tissue absorption / power range will warm you up but NOT at the nano-femto watt level walking around the streets.
        Higher the freq usually less absorption.
        The anti 5G thing is absurd. 1 higher frequencies by 10x than 3G. 5G is just an enhancement of 4G, by extra slot times. SO 5G isnt any different to 4G in that respect except additional bands. There is so much disinfo around no wonder people are confused.
        I heard on commentator call it ‘Militarized weapon’! Totally daft. The military didnt invent it, yes some chip technology does come from companies that develop ICs also for defense. Irrelevant.

        Trouble with Alt media, good on some stuff BAD on other stuff, you really have to get your spam/junk filters aligned!

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      • #
        Roy Hogue

        Coincidentally my Edison bill arrived and they have updated all their nonsense about the danger of low frequency RF. After stating 3 times that no hard, in fact no evidence, even soft evidence supports the existence of a problem they go on to list all the things you can do to avoid any danger. Are we nuts or what?

        It’s time to never say another word about it.

        If they want to worry about electricity, worry about the electric shop teacher who had a length of power cord with a plug on one end and trimmed back bare conductor on the other, about 3/4 inch of bare copper wire. He would plug that in then take one bare wire in each hand and lecture each new class about electricity while he stood there for several minutes with the whole class wondering why he didn’t light up like a Christmas Tree **. Now there’s something dangerous and foolish to show a class of high school students how to do ##. Try that under the wrong circumstances and get hurt or killed. But at least it demonstrated no harm from low frequency RF. And before you say it, I know that many of you live with 240 V, not the 120 that we have — double your trouble with no effort at all.

        ** It’s alright to mention Christmas. It was still acceptable back then.

        ## I always thought he used a dead outlet so he wouldn’t feel it.

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        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          … he used a dead outlet …

          How do you kill an outlet? Curious people would like to know?

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          • #
            Roy Hogue

            Mr. Smart Aleck, there are many ways, shoot it, drown it in water or maybe just shut off the circuit breaker controlling the workbench he was standing in front of.

            Welcome back again, Rereke.

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  • #
    Lionell Griffith

    I suggest it is a very weak study. Too small of a sample, no controls, no double blind, and no way to know the difference between the effects of the defined treatment and the extensive patient interaction by itself. There is a very high likelihood that the study cannot be reproduced and that the highly praised results were simply random noise.

    The good thing is that there seemed to be no lasting harm. Which is the minimum one should require of a medical procedure. Sadly, even this is often not achieved. Most of the time the best one can hope for is that the benefit achieved exceeds the harm caused.

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    • #
      Lance

      No disagreement. The larger scale trials will make or break the method. I’ll hold fire till then. My neighbor has dementia and it is a scary thing to behold.

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      • #
        Lionell Griffith

        I agree that dementia is a scary thing to behold. What makes the person who they are slowly fades. The fading is exceedingly painful to watch. It is even more painful to know there is nothing you can do about it.

        One of my best, dearest, and closest friends experience a major brain hemorrhage and subsequent circulatory dementia. That it was painful to watch understates the effect of the experience. It has been years but it still hurts more than I care to admit. The only relief I have from it is the knowledge she doesn’t know how much she is suffering.

        Let is hope there is more to the study than “needs more study – send more money”. It would be a fantastic benefit to mankind if it did actually work.

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        • #
          Environment Skeptic

          Nothing comes close to the new research associated with the newly discovered organ in the body, the microbiome. A small victory for me was curing my Pustular Psoriasis my doctor said was not curable but treatable with steroids as though to increase my hopes. By simply incorporating and making my own Natto, making sauerkrught and not so much any attention on lacto bacillus which all die in the stomach anyway, i went the spore based probiotics (These do make it to the gut.) like Bacillus Coagulans and Bacillus Subtilis….in saying that, i do not have much time for the fecal transplant region of study with respect to microbiome. Big learning curve…Kiran Krishnan is a very big resource for anyone wishing to look into this.

          The Gut Microbiome and Alzheimer’s Disease
          https://youtu.be/7ZBhQxrrv84

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          • #
            Environment Skeptic

            5 minute fast track into microbiome and Alzheimer’s.

            Alzheimer’s, Dementia & Probiotics: Why Good Gut Health is Critical to Aging Health
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPTU0vpjhvk

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          • #
            Lionell Griffith

            Clearly, if you do everything that is correct for you to do, the results will be positive. That is like getting rich by buying low and selling high. They are trivial truths that contain no information of the who, how, why, when, where of the doing. The challenge is knowing what the correct things for you to do, when to do them, and how to do them correctly. This is not at all obvious.

            I am strongly suspicious of assertions of one cause one cure for complex causality gone bad. As always, extraordinary climes require extraordinary proofs. Not assertions, not descriptions of individual reports of what was done and what was seen. Especially when the so called research calls for more research AND send more money so we can continue this “important” research. Particularly when the money has as its source government coercion over which the individual MUST! stand and deliver.

            If the cause is worthy and the effort justified, prove it to the extent that the money is voluntarily contributed by the self same individuals who created the value of the money. Not “I can cure X if only everyone is FORCED (aka wealth confiscated without individual choice in the matter) by the government gun to contribute $Y per year in perpetuity.”

            You say, “but…but I cannot afford to do it for free.” I didn’t say do it for free, I simply said do it in such a way as the money you spend is VOLUNTARILY given to you by the people who earned it. You HAVE NO RIGHT to exist by using force to take the values necessary to continue to exist.

            This is the bases of my most fundamental suspicion about “one cause, one cure, I can deliver it, and, I don’t have to prove anything but assert I can.” Do it with your own resources or from the voluntary choice of others – no problem. Do it with forced “contributions” may you be condemned to burn in hell forever!

            Am I against science. No. I am against science done at the point of ANYONE’S gun for whatever the reason! Get a real job, trade values YOU have created for the values other’s have created. Do the work you believe is so important with you own wealth. I have done it. If you can’t, get out of the way, sit down, and shut up.

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            • #
              Kalm Keith

              We are really making headway here.

              It’s not Wobal Glorming but the background is more than relevant to understanding the principles behind the global warming method used to dominate public and political perceptions of “the need for action”.

              Earnestly, urgently, forget the expense, do as your told, think as we say.

              KK

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              • #
                Environment Skeptic

                :) ..no, no, and no [my bolding], it’s not “Wobal Glorming”…’Dome All Warmning”, flat earth science had domes and greenhouses worked out centuries ago to an incredible level of sophistication and together with the help of other flat earth scientists were able to implement ingenious solutions..like inquisitions.

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              • #
                Environment Skeptic

                Forget consensus, when we had inquisitions, science was way more cutting edge.

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          • #
            Hal

            Environment Skeptic, I’m very interested in any information you you can share on curing Pustular Psoriasis. I have a friend who is suffering Pustular Psoriasis and the effects of withdrawal from long term, prescribed steroid use.

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            • #
              Environment Skeptic

              Hi Hal…sorry about the editing, i should have edited it more and decided to post as it…the vid below is excellent and found it tonight while looking for a targeted reference although normally i got Kiran Krishnan vids. This reply was definitely on the fly and could really be a lot more simplified.

              It started as a host of other annoying skin ailments. The 30 year old plantar warts i had, one under a big toe, and Tinea between little toes for 40 years.

              I assumed these were only due to pathogens. Been a mainly vegetable person nearly my whole life and have a light frame. I was stumped with these chronic conditions until i succeeded in getting rid of my plantar problem using vinegar and Silver Sulfadiazene cream to prevent infection while the hole that was left by the wart pappiloma virus the vinegar killed …Not to be confused with nanno silver or colloidal silver.

              It was very annoying to have a new foe after the success of killing the wart with vinegar and assumed, that it was a pathogen and treated it as though it was one,..again using vinegar to soak and soften the huge amount of dead skin this condition can cause…i thought how clever i was at the time as the vinegar soaks were terrific for getting rid of the dead skin but did not get rid of the underlying condition which seemed to be under the skin. Also, when my doctor saw it it did not present as Pustular Psoriasis to her because of my removal of the dead skin which therefore did not present or look like this condition to her or even the skin specialist. All i achieved by soaking my feet for 20 minutes each time to remove the dead skin with vinegar using gum boots filled with white vinegar to the right height was avoiding the complication of the skin cracking which can invite infection in this kind of psoriasis. This form of treatment although not a cure did help enormously in managing the condition i was living with for about 3 years but delayed the diagnosis. Around the time it developed on both my hands and feet, I was certain and stopped religiously doing vinegar soaks. It then presented as classic
              pustular psoriasis making diagnosis easy.

              The breakthrough came when i discovered the condition is an autoimmune disease where the body attacks itself as it were. From then on, a huge psychological weight was lifted and that the condition is not caused by a pathogen, rather, the bodies reaction to what it thinks is a pathogen. I no longer had to be obsessive compulsive about germs. I stopped the use of antibacterial soaps and Silver sulfadiazene. Further research/investigation revealed the new medical science which has only recently been flourishing with more papers and studies growing exponentially, microbiome medicine, or that region of medical/biological science that looks at what the 90% (microbes/virus’s) are doing, and not specifically the 10% (human DNA) are doing with an increasing amount of resolution post human genome project.

              The tools to be able to look at the human genome revealed there are vastly more microbial DNA than there is human DNA in our bodies. Not only that, the new tools for looking at what microbes eat and secrete is also recent. They can now look at what a single cell/organism is doing and do not need to culture up loads of some microbe or other on petri dishes and instead can just take one out of a million and see what it is eating, breathing and secreting/digestive process. So bacteria that cannot be cultured on petri dishes can also be studied. In the old days, only lacto bacillus and other bacteria that could easily be cultured were known. 95% of the medical information GP’s and advertising still use is so ancient, they still advertise lacto bacillus as a probiotic that can populate our gut when in fact it is not because it dies in the stomach and it is the yogurt that is left which is a pre-biotic and food for existing good bacteria in the gut.

              I do not know about the effects of long term use of steroids and have not once used them. I can however say that the secret for me as a self conducted medical study/experiment using my own body as a guinea pig/lab mouse was in fermenting cabbage, making sure initially that i was taking at least 300 to 600 micrograms of K2 in case i ran out of Natto which is high in K2/other and K2 is GRAS (generally regarded as safe)
              Incorporating natto also introduces bacillus subtilis spores which can actually get to the gastrointestinal tract where they can germinate and go about doing all kinds of wonderful stuff like a real probiotic and act as gardeners and produce more super important K2 in the gut. And so that the other bacteria can do their job of recognizing a pathogen or threat or communicating to the T cells properly when there is a threat and other things they do that i cannot do justice or am still learning about myself. There are thousands of species of bacteria in the gut, however, there are only a handful of keystone strains that are mandatory else the other bacteria get out of hand and these strains are mainly the spore forming strains like Bacillus subtilis and bacillus coagulans for example. They are truly remarkable in what they do. They are used in agriculture and especially in commercial animal feeds of all kinds. Farmers would not use them to boost the health of their battery hens and aquaculture if it were not so.

              Making sure i had regular sauerkraut, especially Natto and fermented foods and K2 and vegetable fibre (Bacteria love fibre) and especially things high in oligosacharides like Jerusalem artichokes saw my pustular psoriasis disappear from my hands first and in reverse order to the last trace on my feet. And my tinea disappeared gradually also. 9 months later my condition is better than before i developed the psoriasis. Removed as much processed food as possible, but i was allredy doing that in general. The alternative was to get the spores via something like the product by Microbiome Labs but I went grass roots and cooked up my own spores of bacillus subtilis via Natto fermentation. Kiran Krishnan who is chief science officer there is a wealth of knowledge and so I did listen to a lot of his informative youtube videos.

              By what mechanism does pustular psoriasis develop?….i am satisfied i had what is known now as ‘leaky gut’. Somewhere in my gut, the single cell layer thick region of the gut became compromised and allowed things that should not get into the bloodstream to do so. This permeability in the gut allowing things into the blood stream that should not be there like food particles or LTS for example is the result of bacterial unbalance or a disbiosis. The immune systems largest organ is the gut and the bacteria in it. When the gut is compromised and something gets into the bloodstream it does not like, the body launches an immune response, however, the method of recognition is impaired due to disbiosis and then the body can attack anything including the brain and cells of the nervous system or the subcutaneous layer under the skin like Pustular Psoriasis in my case.,

              Hope it helps.

              Notes and eratta: A vid I found tonight which seems good.
              Hope it helps..in parting this rather long reply, i would conclude a vast majority of common diseases begin in the gut.

              Notes and eratta: some random vids.

              https://www.gutmicrobiotaforhealth.com/en/dr-patrice-cani-vicious-cycle-gut-permeability-inflammation/

              “Microbial underpinnings of Autoimmune conditions with Dr. Amy Proal”
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN1dQ5PT2DQ

              “One Thing Podcast with Dr. Adam Rinde
              What is driving Autoimmunity? Is it time to turn our beliefs about autoimmune conditions around and look at what is the underlying cause? According many researchers, including our guest Dr. Amy Proal , a key driver of autoimmunity might be microbe based. As researchers are finding out specific microbes that turn pathogenic called “pathobionts” may be leading to a chronic inflammatory process that goes unchecked. In this episode we dive into pathobionts, intestinal permeability, the problem with standard immunosupressive therapy, biophages, and so much more. Get ready to learn as Dr. Proal is a force . Now more about Dr. Proal.
              Dr. Proal is a microbiologist who studies the molecular mechanisms by which bacterial, fungal and viral pathogens dysregulate human gene expression, immunity and metabolism. Her work further examines how dysbiosis of the human microbiome and/or the human virome can contribute to chronic inflammatory disease processes. As a member of the research team at Autoimmunity Research Foundation, she has authored papers and written book chapters for organizations like the J.Craig Venter Institute and The Autoimmunity Network, and lectured at the NIH and numerous USA/international conferences. Proal graduated from Georgetown University in 2005 with a degree in biology. In 2012, she obtained a PhD in microbiology from Murdoch University in Australia. Her graduate thesis focused on “Autoimmune disease re-examined in light of metagenomic concepts.”
              You can follow her on her website Microbeminded.com and also on twitter @microbminded2. “

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              • #
                Hal

                Many thanks ES for the long and thorough reply. I found it very interesting and will follow up the links as well as passing it on to my friend. He is in a very low place. As well as the psoriasis (which the steroid treatment didnt cure) he has to contend with steroid withdrawal which is very painful and can take years.

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          • #
            nb

            Thank you for these tips. I agree that understanding more about the microbiome will be of huge importance to human welfare.

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  • #
    David Wojick

    My latest article:
    “Young climate activists do not speak for their generation”
    https://www.cfact.org/2019/09/21/young-climate-activists-do-not-speak-for-their-generation/#iLightboxgallery33933/0

    Here is the first half:

    The Democrats recently held a House hearing manned by four young climate alarmism activists. The very title of the hearing is multiply false: “Voices Leading the Next Generation on the Global Warming Crisis.”

    These young alarmists are not leading their generation, any more that the old alarmists are leading mine (and there is no crisis). Thankfully a large fraction of both generations, and the ones in between, are skeptical of alarmism.

    However, the hearing did showcase some of the questionable tactics and ideologies being used to promote this bogus crisis. That show is worth the price of admission.

    First up was Greta Thunberg, the teen queen of climate alarmism. We were all waiting to hear what she had to say, so she wisely said almost nothing. She merely tabled the October 2018 IPCC report looking at the small differences between future warming of 0.5 degrees and 1.0 degrees C.

    Thunberg tersely told Congress that they should read this report and that they were not doing enough. She never said what was important in the report, if anything, or what Congress should be doing that it is not already doing. It was really rather insulting, but I am sure she did not want to be cross examined on specific statements.

    The really funny thing is that there is nothing in this IPCC report to support the crisis narrative. By coincidence I had just written an article to this effect, titled “Is the climate crisis a cruel hoax or a tragic blunder?” So in a very real sense she made a tragic blunder.

    Another witness of interest was Vic Barrett from the so-called Alliance for Climate Education (with the zippy acronym ACE). He too was somewhat insulting in that he wore a baseball cap, but I digress.

    I happen to have an education effort going, the Climate Change Debate Education (CCDE) project, so I looked into ACE. It turns out their idea of education is to train more activists! Their motto is “Get Educated, Take Action.” They boast of having trained 4,000. This is indoctrination, not education.

    Their sole education looking resource is a lengthy video with the usual alarmist narrative: science (questionable), then impacts (adverse) followed by solutions (the usual green dreams). In contrast my CCDE project offers about 350 videos on the science, ranging from one minute long to one hour, plus class handouts on specific scientific issues like hurricanes, the little ice age, etc. This is science education.

    ACE is clearly well funded, certainly to the tune of millions, maybe a year. There is no disclosure, but there is a hint. They have a three member Board, which is very small as these things usually go. One of the three members is a wind industry company executive. My bet is the wind industry funds ACE, whose number one goal is to end fossil fuel use.

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    • #
      theRealUniverse

      “This is a revolution”.. yes it sure is..its scary. Lets hope youre right David, they dont speak for the majority of youth.

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      • #
        Greg in NZ

        Warning: Contains 100% Nonscience!
        “Increasingly people are becoming interested in climate change and care about taking action, and Prof Hodgkiss says he’s noticed a lot of interest from students taking up career pathways in science”. Part of RNZ’s (CCN) Climate Cult Nutbar UN propaganda push by more than 250 media organisations from around the world: Careers To Save The Planet.

        https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/afternoons/audio/2018713819/careers-to-save-the-planet

        Perhaps picture-proofreading might be a new opening in this era of illusory action crisis emergency (ACE). Note the stock image accompanying the above twaddle PR, of a woman holding the Earth in her hands (a new digital version of the very old idea). The picture of the Earth is the ‘Blue Marble’ photo taken in 1972 from Apollo 17 as it hurtled towards the moon – y’know the classic image of Africa with storms/clouds swirling around Antarctica. Except it’s been Photoshopped back-to-front!

        Madagascar is now off the west coast of Africa, storm systems now move from the east toward the west, and the Arabian Peninsula is now where Europe used to be. Oh wait, maybe it was ‘flipped’ on purpose?

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        • #
          theRealUniverse

          How about actually learning to interpret data in graphs that arent ‘adjusted’ or chopped down to start at convenient ‘cool’ periods. (See Tony Hellers work)

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  • #
    Carbon500

    Let’s face it – in the ‘climate change’ farce, the so-called sceptics have been left trailing in the dust regarding publicity – we have no understanding whatsoever regarding how to capture the public’s interest and imagination, and have been well and truly backfooted.
    Here’s what I think is needed.
    A glamorous young spokeswoman, well versed in the sceptic viewpoint, and available for any number of publicity stunts such as hanging around parliament buildings (name your country).
    It’s no good President Trump telling the world that the climate change shock-horror stories are junk – what’s needed is a dash of glamour, and also a handsome young hunk for winning over the ladies.
    Also needed are soundbite answers – quick ones; it’s no use showing all the facts and figures – a waste of time.
    That’s the mission. Any volunteers?

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    • #
      David Wojick

      If your goal is to get mainstream media (MSM) coverage it will not work, because they are dead set against skeptics, no matter how good looking. But in the U.S. at least we dominate talk radio and the blogosphere, which is really all we need to capture the public’s interest and attention. This is why so many people are skeptics. We are pretty much where we need to be.

      In politics a draw is a win for those opposing radical action. In that sense we skeptics are winning a good bit.

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        Carbon500

        In the UK, the sceptics don’t get a look-in at all. The hysteria continues unabated – the BBC for example had the climate demonstrations of yesterday as its main news item, before all else. Absolutely crazy.

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        • #
          theRealUniverse

          I was that Piers Corbyn was out in the streets gving out pamphlets at a rally (UK) showing AGW was false and why. That was sometime ago. Of course the B(BS)Corp wouldnt have covered it even though he is the brother of Jeremy.

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          • #
            Carbon500

            Yes, it was Piers Corbyn – and I would say that here’s another case in point regarding the sceptics not putting their case forward and missing publicity opportunities.
            For someone with a scientific background, his website is a cluttered mess. He needs to set out his reasons for not believing in CAGW clearly, and in my view it should be the first thing a reader sees on his site, with research references and factual figures where needed.
            It’s no good just saying ‘it’s a con’ without backing his views up. I’ve noticed that his YouTube interviews are like this – he doesn’t go far enough to really make his points hit home. It’s a pity, because he makes interesting points in his pronouncements.

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    • #
      Yonniestone

      Good idea but I think Jo and David are a bit busy at the moment……..

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      Zane

      Perhaps Taylor Swift could do a song about loving coal. Should be good for about a billion YouTube views.

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  • #
    Another Ian

    “Focus on warming, not emissions, say greenhouse gas researchers ”

    https://www.queenslandcountrylife.com.au/story/6397314/focus-on-warming-not-emissions-say-researchers/?cs=4707

    Still big assumptions on the role of CO2

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    • #
      TdeF

      “Long lived gases such as Carbon Dioxide”.

      I remember the story of man made Global Warming when I first heard it. It seemed reasonable. The unprecedented large scale release of CO2 from fuel and its effect on the planet. Then the alarmism, the panic, the change in the laws, the rapid sea rise. I was intrigued. Was there any way to tell if it was true.

      The fundamental question was the idea of long lived gases. There aren’t a lot of gases really and CO2 is the gas of life, the one gas output by all living things and the other gas essential for all life. Our planet and all life on it gets all its energy from the sun, its weather all the energy which drives waves and storms and amazingly powers your muscles, your brain, the butterflies. All through Carbon Dioxide and photosynthesis which produces hydrates Carbon dioxide, carbohydrates. Plus we are made from the stuff and water and that’s about it. We share sixty percent of our DNA with a banana, except we move and think.

      So the question was, can we tell if it is true and it occurred to me that you could measure it easily enough. Radio carbon dating is a simple principle and dates all carbon involved in biology. It should also date carbon dioxide in the air itself if the 50% increase was fossil fuel. A quick look at C14 over the years and it was obvious, there was almost no fossil fuel CO2. So I wondered why the story was continuing.

      Yesterday it was clear enough. Politics and power. Climate change and socialism (the nice name for communism) are inseperable. And socialism is pervasive and attractive to young people of good intentions. The people chasing political power have managed to convince an aimless generation whose grandparents fought socialism (Nazis, Fascists) and communism (Cuba, China, Vietnam, Russia) that they were privileged, white and oppressors and racists. They had to pay reparations for invasion, imperialism, war, slavery and even for being well fed, educated, happy and comfortable. In fact for not losing the war.

      Still the fact remains. There is almost no industrial CO2 in the air. The whole thing is a massive lie and everyone involved in it knows that now, after 31 years. Michael Mann knows it, as he has always known it. Al Gore now knows it. Tim Flannery knows it. The big oil companies know it, but a whole generation believes what they have been told since birth.

      What is amazing is that people also know it is not true if they stopped to think about it. The polar bears, the rapid sea rises, the rapid warming. Nothing has changed. No dire predictions have come true. Not one. But this is now a self sustaining, self promoting industry and the money is huge, which is why Professor Peter Ridd lost his job. He threatened the careers of others and the income of the giant university business. He had to go. No one in public life dares disagree with man made Global Warming.

      Look at our former Prime Minister who called Climate Change ‘crap’. He even tried to be nice about it but he is not only no longer Prime Minister, he is out of a job. A whole generation, perhaps two need to be deprogrammed. In the mean time even the big oil companies are so spooked because of the effect on share prices that they are playing along, apologising and promising to be better. Steel companies like Infrabuild are promising to use ‘Green’ energy. And everyone’s making money with windmills and solar panels and pretending the rapid rise of the cost of electricity is unavoidable or price we have to pay. Even electric cars seem sensible if unaffordable and the fact that they change nothing is ignored. A decade ago it was diesel, but that was a lie too.

      It’s nice to come here for some sanity. Thank you Jo. The question is what to do next, but that may be decided by the Mullahs in Iran or Kim Jong Un in North Korea or even Maduro in Venezuela, now sitting on the world’s greatest known reserves of fossil fuel and supported by China, Russia and occupied by Cuba.

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        David Wojick

        Actually the “long lived” stuff is a confusion, not a lie. The average atmospheric residence time of our emitted molecules is less than three years, because 25% of the entire atmospheric mass is exchanged every year! in what is called the carbon flux.

        What is claimed to be long lived is the CO2 concentration, which in turn is claimed to be caused by our emissions, because the annual increase is less than these emissions. The “long lived” language is shorthand for a fairly complex conjecture. But most people do not know this so they believe falsely that CO2 really is long lived. One can see this confusion everywhere but I doubt there is much lying involved.

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          Carp

          Of the mass of CO2 generated each day, about 4% is man-made and 96% is “natural”. I once asked an alarmist “Why are you worried about the 4% when you are not worried about the 96%?” His reply was “The 4% is cumulative so it quickly mounts up like compound interest”. Apparently, “Naturally-produced” CO2 gets recycled but man-made CO2 doesn’t. Is there any evidence that plants refuse to recycle man-made CO2?

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            David Wojick

            Same confusion. It all gets recycled, but AGW claims that the natural cycle is magically balanced, so the annual increase in concentration is entirely caused by our emissions. It is true that the annual increase is less than our annual emissions, which makes this conjecture plausible, but it is still just a conjecture.

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            • #
              TdeF

              ” the natural cycle is magically balanced, so the annual increase in concentration is entirely caused by our emissions.”

              David, I do not understand this statement. No physical process cant tell fossil fuel CO2 from any other CO2, so how can the ‘natural cycle’ CO2 be treated separately from ‘natural’ CO2. The Bern diagram purports to balance up the sources and sinks of CO2. It is wrong. There is one huge sink which dwarfs the CO2 in the biosphere of plants and surfaces, the ocean.

              The IPCC argue that while they admit the vast amounts of CO2 in the ocean would dominate, it is not possible because the CO2 is trapped at depths and circulates with the ocean currents in thousands of years and plays little part. They have no evidence at all for this, but they need this logic to pretend that plants and sky and the biosphere is dominant, not the oceans or rapid equilibrium would quickly absorb all our output, as happens.

              Any geologist would say this trapped CO2 story is nonsense. Another unsubstantiated but necessary conjecture to support man made Global Warming. Whole industries rely on looking for CH4 from the ocean bottom and CO2 is always coming up. Heat the surface and CO2 leaves the ocean (Henry’s law) and is immediately replaced by more from below because CO2 can turn into bubbles instantly at the next interface.

              The man made CO2 levels is the lie. It is not true. CO2 levels are perfectly natural and set by ocean surface temperature, as should be obvious as those two things are still going up together and atmospheric warming has stopped.

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                AndyG55

                There are apparently vast “bubbles” of compressed CO2 in the deepest oceans, even a minor increase in temperature would release some of this.

                Relatively small change in temperature in the deep oceans could mean huge changes in released CO2

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                TdeF

                I see. Postulating that the total amount of CO2 in the ‘biosphere’ is rather small. So if you add a (cumulatively) significant new amount of CO2 in a small time, say 100 years, the total in circulation goes up, both in the air and in the ocean surface. Thus the need for the ‘ocean acidification’ story.

                You would have to somehow ignore the fact that the total then is less than 2% of the known amount of CO2 in the oceans. Now why would you do that?

                To make a story fit the observation of rising CO2 due to fossil fuel. There is no other reason.

                So we have another necessary hypothesis or precondition without proof, that the 98% of CO2 in the deep ocean is not engaged in even exchanges over say 10 years, that the ocean surface CO2, say the top 100metres is quite isolated from the 3,300 metres of CO2 below. Now who proved this?

                So we are back to my original question. Can anyone prove the that the extra 50% CO2 in the air is man made?

                What I am saying is that with radio carbon dating you can prove absolutely that it is not. You can also prove the half life is 14 years. You can prove from the rate of decay of the extra C14 since 1965 that there is one almighty sink far bigger than this 2%, otherwise the radioactive C14 could not escape the system. Total C14 would go down with a half life of 5400 years, not 14 years.

                C14 is like a free radioactive medical tracer. All modern CO2 has it, even in the deepest oceans. Fossil fuel plant matter decayed to nothing a hundred and fifty million years ago.. So if the extra CO2 was man released from ancient fossil fuel and contained no C14 was was responsible for the extra 50%, C14 should be down 33%. That was not true in 1956. It was 2%.

                What happened after the end of atmospheric testing around 1965 was perhaps the biggest science experiment since Einstein predicted light from a star would bend around the sun. We humans could observe easily the vanishing of a planet wide C14 at an incredible rate, into the deep oceans because there is nowhere else to hide. You cannot hide radioactive C14 and it’s gone. On all these grounds we know the idea that the 98% of CO2 in the deep oceans is not involved in the CO2 equilibrium is rubbish.

                There is almost no man made CO2 in the air. That is my entire point and a simple science fact. We even know where it is. We understand that the deep oceans are involved fully and that this necessary and unproven hypothesis is wrong.

                Without man made CO2 levels, there is no man made Global Warming and no mad made Climate Change. We cannot stop or undo what we have not done and cannot control. Even for a trillion trillion dollars.

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            Yonniestone

            A little known fact is all plants are ra(ist, they won’t have anything to do with anything produced by sentient beings, this bias by nature also inflicts the Greens.

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          David Wojick

          Sorry, that should be less than five years. Still not long lived.

          To elaborate, when people say our emissions will last hundreds of years that is a misunderstanding of the AGW science, which actually claims that the effects will last hundreds of years, namely the increase in concentration above pre-industrial levels. Of course this is all just AGW conjecture, stated as a fact.

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          • #
            David Wojick

            I discuss this prevalent confusion in some detail here:
            https://www.cfact.org/2018/03/13/two-co2-climate-change-myths/

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            Ian George

            Just thinking.
            From 1950-1975 the Earth temps cooled. The explanation was that high levels of carbon monoxide (cars) and sulphur dioxide (factories) caused heavy pollution. Earth Watch (1970) told us we had 20-30 years before catastrophe reigned.
            So factories were cleaned up and catalytic converters were placed into cars to produce CO2 (and water) rather than CO.
            So with less cooling pollutants the air was cleaner but with more CO2. So what was the unintended consequence of our actions?
            Yep, we have only 12 years left – and counting. And Co2 is now being called pollution.
            So to save ourselves from poor air and cooling we now have poor air and warming.
            Ouch!

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            • #
              TdeF

              Acids like CO, SO2, NO2 are acids and form carbonic, sulphuric, nitric on contact with water, say in your lungs. Acid rain. carbonic is not a strong acid but the other two are disastrous. Carbon monoxide is dangerous because it looks like oxygen and blocks your lungs and you asphyxiate. Carbon dioxide is not only completely harmless, it is essential for life, the molecule of life. Trees are made from solid CO2 and H2O and little else. So are you.

              The 12 years to live warning has been given by self appointed experts about five times since the war. It is clearly wrong. We have had cooling, warming, asteroids, volcanoes but the money involved in the CO2 scare is unprecedented, between $1 and $2 trillion a year to prevent something which is not happening anyway.

              As for NO2, it is a product of diesel engines, introduced to reduce CO2, which is basically deceitful. The poor French were forced to buy them and now they are fined for driving them. Both for the same reason. No wonder they are angry. All fake science, like man made Global Warming/Cooling/extreme events. All made up stuff. You have to be kind to call it conjecture. You have to conclude Michael Mann is not releasing his data because he would be charged with fraud and could end up in the State Penn instead of Penn State.

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                tom0mason

                “Trees are made from solid CO2 and H2O and little else. So are you.”
                Exactly TdeF,

                But of course these days of the incorrect static and reductionist view of life considers that trees and all other life has not changed that much since mankind invented the industrial age (around 1850), and that it all is accounted for in their incomplete ‘carbon cycle’ view where everything decomposes back to it’s base elements.
                This of course is completely wrong as by 1850 the LIA was lessening it’s impact and the planet starts to warm. And with warmth comes more life! The aggregation of all life after the LIA compared to the totals during the coolest periods of the LIA shows that aggregate sum of life increased radically. From defrosting tundra trapped CO2 and methane to escaped, but soon life in the forms of bacteria, simple grasses, then shrubs and animals, etc. returned. The frozen seas defrosted venting CO2 as life returned to the area.

                Now consider what that means for the totality of life’s most basic ingredients, H2O, CO2. The water and CO2 cycles have expanded in range, all of life’s storage of them has increased! In considering that look just at humans, the population has increased from about 1 billion in 1850 to the present’s (approximate) 8 billion (a near 3 times doubling). I contend that just like humans, all the rest of life has naturally increased (and continues to increase) since 1850 — certainly not all at the same rate as humans but increase they have.

                This LIVING planet is sequestering away carbon from CO2 tying it to water with the energy provided from the sunlight, and then going on to make the evermore complex biological chemistry — sugars, starches, cellulose, fats, proteins, etc. Through this method life sequesters Carbon and Water out of the atmosphere for a very long time (hundreds of years to millions of years).
                Life is all about trying to reach equilibrium but failing, instead having to adapt to the continuously changing environmental conditions.

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            John in NZ

            According to the IPCC Technical Summary TS 2.1(https://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/tssts-2-1.html)

            “Long-lived greenhouse gases (LLGHGs), for example, CO2, methane (CH4) and nitrous oxide (N2O), are chemically stable and persist in the atmosphere over time scales of a decade to centuries or longer, so that their emission has a long-term influence on climate. ” which is true,

            but in the same paragraph they say,

            ” Carbon dioxide does not have a specific lifetime because it is continuously cycled between the atmosphere, oceans and land biosphere and its net removal from the atmosphere involves a range of processes with different time scales. ”

            So they are saying that CO2 both is and is not a LLGHG.

            In AR5WG1 Table 2.1 shows CO2 having no lifetime at all.

            Methane in the 5th report has become a short lived gas.

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        • #
          Tdef

          David, the lie is the ‘residence time’. The IPCC aknowledge the exchange with the oceans but states the half life of the CO2 exchange is 80 years. In fact it is their reference standard for all gases.

          This is a lie.

          It is the core falsehood which is needed to explain the accumulation of our tiny output in the atmosphere and the steady growth of CO2.

          The actual half life is 14 years. That is self evident from the collapse of C14 levels after the cessation of atmospheric bomb testing and irrefutable.

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          • #
            David Wojick

            I can’t imagine the IPCC saying that. That the average residence time is less than five years is well known. So is the fact that our CO2 does not accumulate to create the increase. Rather it causes the increase. Unfortunately this is often expressed as though our emissions did accumulate, which is incorrect, a confusion.

            By analogy, suppose you add and remove water from a tub simultaneously, say with a spigot and a drain. If you constantly add a little more than you remove the level will slowly rise. But the rise is not due to the accumulation of the added water, because it gets removed. The added water does not accumulate but the difference between the amounts added and removed still causes the level to rise.

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            • #
              TdeF

              It was in their reports. The only reference to this critical information was in a single paper, which stated 80 years. Another gave the residence time as ‘thousands of years’. The odd thing is the residence time of all gases in the biosphere which is stated in relation to CO2, gases like carbon tetraflouride.

              What is outstanding is the lack of reference to the single most important fact, how long does it take for the planet to reestablish CO2 levels after our output. At 5 years, our little output would be gone almost immediately and there is no problem.

              Take the Exxon Valdez as a case. It was amazing that despite the billions spent in the cleanup, much wildlife was saved but the oil polluted beaches they left to nature cleaned themselves just as quickly. So our ‘industrial’ CO2 is after all just CO2 and vanishes quickly. It does not accumulate unilaterally, which destroys the ‘man made’ Global Warming story.

              You see it is not whether CO2 heats the planet. It is whether we are responsible for the increase. And if we are not, all the windmills in the world will not change it. Which should be obvious by now.

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          • #
            TdeF

            The concept not understood by many is equilibrium. Engineers don’t know it. A lot of people do not know it, but
            it underlies most chemistry. No matter how strong the reaction, there is always a part going back. CO2 molecules enter the
            water all the time, as do oxygen. That’s how fish breathe. CO2 molecules also exit the water. The proportion which stay in the air is
            determined ultimately by pressure which is constant and surface temperature. This is Henry’s law. The IPCC scientists know this
            and in time all the ‘excess’ CO2 would go back into the ocean. The CO2 in the air is only 2% of the total, especially as CO2 is highly
            soluble 20x more than oxygen, polar and easily compressed as we all know. It freezes solid in the atmosphere, as pilots learned in CO2 when it froze in their
            masks during bombing runs. At depths in the ocean it is a liquid.

            In the 1950s it was felt that the time take for CO2 to be reabsorbed in the ocean was 5 years. Thanks to a massive and accidental experiment in the 1960s,
            C14 levels doubled and we learned a few things. Firstly that the half life is 14 years. Then the famous ‘Bern Cycle’ for Carbon in the Biosphere is wrong. The
            decay of C14 is a single clear e-kt meaning the ocean is by far the biggest force in CO2 levels and that the tiny amount in the biosphere is irrelevant.

            Still, this is all the ‘Inconvenient truth’ and the IPCC hides it. Amazingly they have pushed the line that warming oceans and higher CO2 levels mean the ocean is absorbing
            CO2 and call this ‘ocean acidification’, an invention which is the absolute reverse of the truth of Henry’s law.

            So there is one big lie. The CO2 increase is man made. I am amazed that so many scientists accept the CO2 levels are man made when ocean warming is so obvious and such a simple explanation.
            Occam’s razor.

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              TdeF

              And of course if the CO2 levels are not man made, the question of whether CO2 warms the planet is irrelevant. We can do nothing
              about it. CO2 levels are perfectly natural. I suspect the reason we have not seen spikes like this in the ice core record is leaching
              in the formation of the record as the snow turns to firn and to ice. This degrades the resolution.

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              • #
                David Wojick

                I agree completely. That the CO2 increase is due to our emissions is pure AGW speculation. Everything in nature varies naturally and the CO2 flux is driven by a myriad biological processes that are independent of one another. That it should be magically balanced and unchanging is impossible. The ice cores simply do not capture the natural variations.

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              • #
                TdeF

                No it is demonstrably not true. So are what point does ‘pure speculation’ become a lie? The essential lie in man made Global Warming. It is not about whether CO2 warms the planet, but whether CO2 levels are man made.

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                AndyG55

                We can be exceeding thankful for the increase in atmospheric CO2,

                No matter where it has come from. :-)

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                theRealUniverse

                I am a wee bit suspicious of the so called CO2 increase which even the diehard skeptics appear to take at face value, well most.
                Is it possible that the so called bench standard at Mauna Loa is also ‘faked’? If it is at high altitude (Mauna Loa summit 13000′)
                Then wouldnt it be better to have a lower sample considering CO2 is heavier than O2 N2. Also the distribution seems to be most around industrial areas on LAND! (Sat data) Maybe there is an increase due to warming from the mid 19th C onwards.
                Is it averaged form the sat data?
                Comments?

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              • #
                Carbon500

                theRealUniverse: like you, I have reservations about the distribution of CO2 in the atmosphere. Rainwater has a pH of around 5.3 (attributed to CO2) when measured at places away from human activities, and of course CO2 is water soluble – more so in cooler water. I’ve often wondered how much is CO2 left after a rainstorm.
                It’s all very well measuring CO2 in dry air from samples taken at altitude, but I find it hard to believe that CO2 is uniformly distributed at all times throughout the trophosphere.
                Comments are invited!

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            tom0mason

            The IPCC’s account put man-made CO2 residence time in thousands of years,

            The 5th IPCC report writes here that 60 – 85% of the anthropogenic CO2 would disappear from the atmosphere in about 1000 years. But the complete removal would take a few hundred thousands of years. In Chapter 6 from Working Group 1:

            “The removal of human-emitted CO2 from the atmosphere by natural processes will take a few hundred thousand years (high confidence). Depending on the RCP scenario considered, about 15 to 40% of emitted CO2 will remain in the atmosphere longer than 1,000 years. This very long time required by sinks to remove anthropogenic CO2 makes climate change caused by elevated CO2 irreversible on human time scale.”

            some others put it in hundreds of years, Herman Harde in his paper “Scrutinizing the carbon cycle and CO2 residence time in the atmosphere” put it at about 4 years.

            a b s t r a c t
            Climate scientists presume that the carbon cycle has come out of balance due to the increasing anthropogenic emissions from fossil fuel combustion and land use change. This is made responsible for the rapidly increasing atmospheric CO2 concentrations over recent years, and it is estimated that the removal of the additional emissions from the atmosphere will take a few hundred thousand years. Since this goes along with an increasing greenhouse effect and a further global warming, a better understanding of the carbon cycle is of great importance for all future climate change predictions. We have critically scrutinized this cycle and present an alternative concept, for which the uptake of CO2 by natural sinks scales proportional with the CO 2 concentration. In addition, we consider temperature dependent natural emission and absorption rates, by which the paleoclimatic CO 2 variations and the actual CO2 growth rate can well be explained. The anthropogenic contribution to the actual CO 2 concentration is found to be 4.3%, its fraction to the CO2 increase over the Industrial Era is 15% and the average residence time 4 years.

            See https://notrickszone.com/2017/03/26/new-literature-strongly-suggests-co2-residence-time-in-the-atmosphere-is-exaggerated/ for a discussion on the literature.

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            • #
              theRealUniverse

              Thats absurd! So manmade CO2 stays longer than ‘natural’ CO2? Are the molecules bent or maybe a different color?
              ‘Climate scientists presume that the carbon cycle has come out of balance due to the increasing anthropogenic emissions’
              Another fake statement and blatantly WRONG! There is NO way the CO2 cycles can tell ANY difference between CO2 from coal or from other sources including our mouths!

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        • #
          TdeF

          David, where did you get this 25% exchanged every year? That would be a half life of 2 years. As there is 50x as much CO2 in the ocean, we could do what we like and gas levels are set by the forces which determine how much CO2 is in the ocean vs how much in the air. Henry’s law of dissolved gases. It would not be possible to affect CO2 levels at all. The only way you can build up CO2 levels on one side of the exchange is to have a slow exchange.

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            David Wojick

            The total mass is about 800 billion tons carbon (maybe 900 by now as I have been doing this since 1992) and the flux is about 200 billion added and removed every year. Some estimates are as low as 150 but we really do not know so I use a round 200. You may be right about less than 3 years, as I first said. But keep in mind that some of what is removed was just added so the computation is fairly hairy.

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            • #
              David Wojick

              See the diagram here:
              https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_cycle

              They still say 800.

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              • #
                TdeF

                Thanks. Nett ocean 1000. Deep ocean 2. There’s your lie.

                The proposition in this diagram is that CO2 in the deep ocean is NOT involved in the equilibrium of CO2, so restricting the total to the small amount in the ‘biosphere’ in which life is involved. Plants, animals, fish, the atmosphere and the top 100 metres say.

                Is that proven anywhere? By anyone? Or is it another unproven hypothesis?

                I have added a comment far above which proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that the deep ocean is fully involved, that liquid CO2 is not water and can and does rapidly exchange with the CO2 in the top 100 metres. That is proven by the radioactive C14 vanishing rapidly after the atmospheric testing. There is only one place outside this ‘biosphere’ and by vanishing, proves the 2 figure is rubbish. The inconvenient truth is that the deep oceans dominate CO2.

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              • #
                TdeF

                The deep ocean “it’s the largest pool of actively cycled carbon in the world, containing 50 times more than the atmosphere—but the timescale to reach equilibrium with the atmosphere is hundreds of years: the exchange of carbon between the two layers, driven by thermohaline circulation, is slow.”

                The author has an unproven assumption, that because liquid CO2 is mixed with water, it behaves like water in every respect despite being a dissolved gas under pressure and the water mixing of lower layers is very slow, so the CO2 mixes at the same rate.

                Now that’s an hypothesis, a theory. It’s essential to wipe out, ignore the biggest store of CO2 on the planet and so enhance the importance of tiny but accumulated fossil fuel CO2. And it is demonstrably wrong.

                In another place, an IPCC report admits that the fossil fuel CO2 will be reabsorbed in the deep oceans and equilibrium restored, but they argue that it will take thousands of years.
                There is no proven basis for this hypothesis except wishful thinking.

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                FijiDave

                David, the Wiki article you linked to says inter alia:

                Between 1989 and 2008 soil respiration increased by about 0.1% per year…….There are a few plausible explanations for this trend, but the most likely explanation is that increasing temperatures have increased rates of decomposition of soil organic matter, which has increased the flow of CO2.

                My problem is that I constantly see authoritative assertions made about some disaster, or mechanism, or process driven by “increasing temperatures”. Clearly, temperatures, if they’re rising at all, are rising at a glacial and tiny rate, which makes all of the assertions such as that quoted above meaningless junk.

                Any reference to “increasing temperatures” is the kiss of death to any article I read about CO2 or climate.

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              • #
                TdeF

                Given the enormous pressures in the deep ocean, up to 400 atmospheres, CO2 is a liquid. The hypothesis is that it is forced to move horizontally with the deep ocean currents and that vertical movement of CO2 gas molecules is impossible.
                This means it can play no part in the equilibrium setting of CO2 at the sea surface/air boundary.

                This situation is not reproducible in the laboratory. So I doubt very much that anyone could do more than guess but anecdotal evidence from oil geologists searching for offshore oil and gas is that the search for carbon gases from the sea floor often picks up rising CO2. So not only is this essential man made global warming hypothesis not proven, it is likely untrue and that’s the end of that.

                Our total CO2 output is tiny and vanishes quickly. The attempt to justify accumulation in the atmosphere is busted as an unproven and unlikely hypothesis. And the hard evidence from C14 vanishing is that it is not true.

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              • #
                tom0mason

                As reported here https://www.livescience.com/65466-bomb-carbon-deepest-ocean-trenches.html ,carbon from A-bomb test have been found in some of the deepest ocean trenches.

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            • #
              theRealUniverse

              I assume you read Ed Berry’s work on this?
              Meteorologist Chuck Wiese presents the work of Edwin Berry, PhD.https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=17&v=jr3NCCEf58A

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              • #
                theRealUniverse

                I just rechecked he used 900Gt.

                Also where are the numbers from? Mas by molecular weight? Moles? Total atmospherics mass (all gasses) 5.1480 x 10^18 kg. (10^15) t.

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              • #
                TdeF

                Yes. Murry Salby too. Excellent professional and incorruptible scientists where the IPCC is an Inter Governmental political panel of the UN, not a science organization. I have spent years pushing the C14 graph as it tells you everything. One writer called it the silver lining of the atmospheric bomb tests, a gigantic experiment which tell us where CO2 goes. In 1956, before this became a trillion $ industry, no one had a problem with rapid CO2 reabsorption into the vast oceans. Now it is forbidden to mention it.

                There is also the recent story of C13 levels which is very shaky and debatable science. On Wikipedia they have even expanded the Suess effect to include C13 and so muddy the waters and actually argue against what Professor Suess discovered. You have to hide the decline and the clear proof by C14 that the deep ocean is involved totally in rapidly absorbing our tiny CO2 output.

                As for global warming and rising CO2. Great. We really need it. The cold is coming with the end of both the PDO and the De Vries cycle and we expect a rapid drop after 2020 and that is real science.

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          • #
            Kalm Keith

            A very important point.

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          theRealUniverse

          Yes true but the IPCC released statements saying that CO2 (from humans) remains in the air ‘forever’ . The most absurd untrue scientific statement they could possibly make.

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          • #
            Kalm Keith

            Yes. That’s stupid enough that on its own that statement is absolute evidence that they are deliberately misrepresenting the science.

            All CO2 molecules are treated equally in nature and not only is it scientifically incorrect to suggest otherwise it is also politically incorrect.

            Just how the feminist movement can live with this contradiction is confusing.

            It seems that they have exceptions to the rules.

            KK

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    Another Ian

    Re that photo that “disappeared frpm Facebook yesterday.

    Hmmm! Mentions picking up their own litter too!

    “My solution to our children’s climate terror – a nice thick steak”

    https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/my-solution-to-our-childrens-climate-terror-a-nice-thick-steak/?utm_source=CCNet+Newsletter&utm_campaign=2ccd030693-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_09_19_01_54&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fe4b2f45ef-2ccd030693-36466861

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      Another Ian

      That was via Tip of the Spear

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    • #
      OriginalSteve

      We have to tell kids the govt is lying to them and that teachers have to teach the lies. Put the responsibility where it needs to be.

      The other problem is the eventual push will be that once the socialist victim culture ramps up, anyone who pushes sceptic views will be falsely deemed “mentally unstable” and locked up, Soviet style for causing psychological “damage”.

      You can see how the Left is destroying childrens minds…

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    Another Ian

    “The best pushback to the misinformation of @GretaThunberg you’ll find”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/09/21/the-best-pushback-to-the-misinformation-of-gretathunberg-youll-find/

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    Another Ian

    “But I digress, let me return to Sonoma County. From everything I’ve been able to read about the RCPA, it doesn’t actually PRODUCE anything. Instead, it “coordinates”. It “supports”. It “collaborates”. It “enables”. It “mobilizes”. It “develops strategies”. It “engages in dialog”.

    In short, near as I can tell, it’s the usual infinitely expandable bureaucratic climate wankfest, with no measurable deliverables of any kind.”

    Sounds like a few of ours.

    “The Regional Climate Protection Authority”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/09/21/the-regional-climate-protection-authority/

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      Another Ian

      AND!

      “One thing is for sure:

      People around here can’t afford to keep spending twenty-seven million hard-earned taxpayer and ratepayer dollars per decade to engage in climate virtue signaling.

      And that’s all it is, climate virtue signaling. Here’s why.

      Assume for the moment that the whole “CO2 Roolz Temperature!” hypothesis is true, as mainstream climate scientists assume. Using their calculations, if the entire US went to zero CO2 emissions tomorrow, it would only make a difference of a tenth of a degree in 2050. “

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      Carp

      “On a local level, we continue to experience extreme climate-related events, including six years of recent droughts, devastating wildfires, and severe flooding”.

      Of course, we never had extreme weather before climate change. I wonder what caused the Great Flood in Noah’s time? I don’t think Noah was burning coal. Or maybe he was. He might have had a steam engine in his ark.

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  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    Trump will hold session on religious persecution instead of attending UN climate summit
    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/20/politics/trump-un-climate-summit-religious-persecution-session/index.html

    Heh. A few timely tweets and the spot light will be on the Prez whilst the failed doomsayers squeal apocalypse.

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    joseph

    Just thought I’d mention that there’s a post of links from Dr. Tim Ball at the bottom of yesterday’s thread.

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      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      Thanks joseph,
      I’ve downloaded the links and will watch them all.
      I would have missed his reply without your alert as we’ve had a busy day and I doubt I’d have reached Tim’s reply today…
      Cheers
      Dave B

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    OriginalSteve

    Rain yesterday….yipee!

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    Another Ian

    “Column: Climate crisis solved! A quick, socialist-friendly path to environmental nirvana. Who could complain?”

    https://boereport.com/2019/09/19/column-climate-crisis-solved-a-quick-socialist-friendly-path-to-environmental-nirvana-who-could-complain/

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    Salome

    Last night on SBS News there was a climate change feature on Rhode Island. There, houses have been built right on the beach front and people are concerned that ‘rising sea levels’ (as a result of climate change) are about to wash the front row of them away. Apparently a whole paved road has already gone. When I say right on the beach, I mean it. All there is is a patch of tide-affected sand in front. I expect these people have not been reading their Bibles and have literally built upon the sand . . . (Some religions are better than others at offering handy hints of wisdom.) During the course of the report, I think I heard the word ‘erosion’ once, but only once. Now, Rhode Island is said to be suffering more than average (something to do with the Gulf Stream), which I find surprising, because I’d have thought that if sea level were rising it would kind of share the love pretty evenly, although I understand it’s been sinking in Sydney and Pacific islands are growing. Anyway, question for those of greater knowledge than mine: Is this sea level rise because of global warming or the age old process of erosion redrawing coaslines. (And yes, I do understand that even if you build upon the rock at water’s edge, you might find that eroded away eventually. Here we have no lasting city.)

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      Salome

      Oops. Forgot a ? at the end of my question.

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      yarpos

      There is an article in todays Age about planning to move a bayside kindergarten in Elwood (neighbouring suburb of St Kilda in Melbourne) due to imminent rapid sea level rise. No actual problem just being paniced by doomsaying.

      Once the Kinder is dont I wonder if they will then initiate projects for Southbank, Fort Denison, the Opera House and every oil terminal in the country. Idiots.

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      Hanrahan

      I’m willing to accept that different areas of ocean can rise/fall more than others. The oceans are like a giant bath tub with water sloughing around influenced by many things I know little about.

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      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      G’day Salome,
      I’ll try a generalisation: The sand will move, at the will of the ocean.
      Cheers
      Dave B

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  • #
    Kalm Keith

    We need a brief summary of the science that dismisses the CO2 Global Warming paradigm.

    A start.

    There’s a very simple scientific condemnation of the CO2 _ Climate Change atmospheric heating meme.

    All physics trained people know that while CO2 may selectively absorb energy from outbound Infrared there’s a problem for the Warmers: it cannot hold or “trap” that energy.

    There is almost instantaneous equilibration of the CO2 with surrounding molecules, principally oxygen and nitrogen.

    The hotter parcel of gas then floats up thus continuing the energy transfer from ground to space by convection.
    Admittedly convection is slower than moving IR but over the 24 hour solar cycle it’s not all that relevant.

    If basic uncontestable physics doesn’t stick then we have to go with IF.

    What if it was true: that CO2 causes global warming. The second problem for warmers is that Human Origin CO2 is such a small contributor to the system that it is quantitatively irrelevant. The biggest “dangers” are atmospheric Water and natural origin atmospheric CO2.

    The Science is all too real, but qualified scientists want to keep their jobs, and who can blame them.

    Voodoo is alive and kicking.

    KK

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    • #
      Carp

      Just playing devil’s advocate. Isn’t there a boundary layer that acts like the roof of the greenhouse?

      30

      • #
        AndyG55

        Are you suggesting the Tropopause?

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      • #
        robert rosicka

        Carp the warmists say there is and this is where CO2 heats up and sends some heat back down to earth but if this was the case there would be a hotspot up there , which is logical if their theory was correct but unfortunately for them no hotspot has been found .
        So no there is no lid ,no glass screen just gas and space .

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        • #
          AndyG55

          The mean free path of CO2 frequency radiation is about 10m in the lower atmosphere

          The so-called “hot spot” even if it existed, which it doesn’t, would not have heated anything anywhere near the surface.

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      AndyG55

      “Admittedly convection is slower than moving IR but over the 24 hour solar cycle it’s not all that relevant.”

      KK, When air is forced upwards by bouyancy, all the air above is also forced upwards.

      This is obvious from up-drafts and cloud-head formation.

      Transfer of energy is faster than you think.

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  • #
    joseph

    Yesterday I posed the question: Does the sun really have anything to do with climate?

    I was interested to see what kind of replies I might get, if any.

    There were replies from el gordo and serp which included a good link.

    What if you had known I was a ten year old?

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    • #
      Ian George

      The sun does when it suits them.
      They blamed the 1910-1940 temp increase on increased solar activity but fail to point out that the activity continued increasing to 1960, by which time the temps had been dropping for some 15 years.

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      • #
        joseph

        Some . . . .

        20

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          Carbon500

          Joseph: I recommend that you read ‘The Great Global Warming Blunder’ by Dr. Roy Spencer.
          In the meantime, here’s how the time-worn statement that ’97% of scientists agree that mankind is responsible for global warming’ was derived.
          In January 2009, Peter T. Doran and Maggie Kendall Zimmerman of the University of Illinois at Chicago published a research paper entitled ‘Examining the Scientific Consensus on Climate Change’. This can be accessed via the internet – check it for yourself.
          Comments in quotation marks are verbatim from the paper.
          Survey questionnaires were sent to ‘10,257 Earth scientists’.
          The paper explains that ‘This brief report addresses the two primary questions of the survey’.
          These were:
          1)‘When compared with pre-1800s levels, do you think that mean global temperatures have generally risen, fallen, or remained generally constant?’
          2)‘Do you think human activity is a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures?’
          The survey was ‘designed to take less than 2mins to complete’ and was administered online.
          Firstly, note that of the 10,257 to whom the questionnaire was sent, only 3,146 individuals bothered to complete and return the survey – i.e. just short of 31%.
          ‘Approximately 5% of the respondents were climate scientists’ – as opposed to for example oceanographers and palaeontologists. That’s 157 individuals out of the 3,146.
          Of these 157, 79 scientists had published more than 50% of their recent research papers on the subject, and so were deemed by the authors to be ‘the most specialised and knowledgeable respondents’.
          In other words, of the total of 10,257 considered knowledgeable enough to have their opinion sought at the outset of the study, only 79 individuals were by now considered to the most knowledgeable!
          Of these 79, 76 (96.2%) answered ‘risen’ to question 1, and – wait for it – 75 out of 77 (97.4%) answered ‘yes’ to question 2.
          So there we are – job done – 97.4% of scientists agree that humans are warming the planet significantly – or do they?
          Let’s see now: 75 out of the 10,257 polled. I make that 0.73%.

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          • #
            joseph

            Thanks for that C500.

            Just went out to Wikipedia to see how Roy Spencer would be portrayed and found this: “This article contains content that is written like an advertisement. Please help improve it by removing promotional content and inappropriate external links, and by adding encyclopedic content written from a neutral point of view”. (September 2017)

            He comes across as being someone who is a little too believable I guess! If 97% took him seriously, what then?

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            • #
              el gordo

              ‘If 97% took him seriously, what then?’

              We would all be in the lukewarm tent, nevertheless his satellite effort is generally accepted by all sides.

              https://www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/uploads/UAH_LT_1979_thru_August_2019_v6.jpg

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              • #
                joseph

                EG,

                Has he never ventured into the cool tent, and offered an opinion on what he’d found there?

                10

              • #
                el gordo

                Not to my knowledge.

                Don’t get me wrong, Judith Curry and Bjorn Lomborg are also in the lukewarm tent and they seem bright enough.

                The lukewarm position is one you might think of adopting for now, to explain that its a ‘sensitivity’ issue and the scientists got it wrong. There is a little bit of warming, but its not catastrophic.

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                Carbon500

                Joseph: notice that the satellite record shows an average of slightly less than 0.4 degrees Celsius above the 30-year average for 1981 to 2001.
                Notice how the temperature varies over the the years, and notice the warming effect on the atmosphere of the El Niño phenomenon, an extensive warming of the upper ocean in the tropical eastern Pacific which lasts for three or more seasons. There are also times when the sea surface temperatures in these regions fall – they are a natural complement to the warm episodes, and are known as La Niña events. Notice how the global atmospheric temperature falls as a result of the La Niña.
                So ask yourself the question: does a 0.4C deviation from the ’81 to ’01 average indicate dangerous man-made global warming in progress?
                We hear a lot about ‘climate change’ – what do we mean by this exactly?
                There’s plenty of interesting meteorology literature to be read – proper observation of weather events over the centuries, from days when ‘climate science’ wasn’t a fashionable term!

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              Carbon500

              Joseph: you comment ‘he comes across as being someone who is a little too believable I guess! If 97% took him seriously, what then?’ concerns me somewhat.
              Don’t waste your time looking at what Wikipedia says about Dr. Spencer, or any number of internet trolls. Their opinions count for nothing. Read his book, research, look at figures and make up your own mind.
              Here’s something to be going on with: Dr. Roy W. Spencer received his Ph.D. in meteorology at the University of Wisconsin-Madison in 1981. He is a Principal Research Scientist at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, a post he took up in 2001. Previously, he was a Senior Scientist for Climate Studies at NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Centre, where he and Dr. John Christy received NASA’s Exceptional Scientific Achievement Medal for their global temperature monitoring work with satellites. Dr. Spencer’s work with NASA continues as the U.S. Science Team leader for the Advanced Microwave Scanning Radiometer on NASA’s Aqua satellite. He is clearly an expert on climate matters and the measuring of global temperatures.
              His book, ‘The Great Global Warming Blunder’ discusses his reasons as to why he considers the effect of mankind’s CO2 emissions to be minimal – if indeed there is an effect. Work by scientists such as Dr. Spencer which counters the doomsday scenarios is never covered by the media. They’re not interested, because scary stories sell. We live in an era of truly shoddy journalism, and there’s worse – scientists with years of experience are denigrated on various internet websites by ‘trolls’ who claim expertise yet have clearly never been involved in scientific research of any kind. Rudeness and abuse have no place in scientific debate.
              The future is certainly not bleak – other books by specialists such as the late Professor Robert Carter’s ‘Climate – The Counter Consensus’ paint quite a different picture from the doomsday scenarios of Al Gore and others. Professor Carter’s book is out of print, but doubtless you could get a copy via the internet. It’s an excellent book, and enjoyable reading.

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                joseph

                C500,
                Thanks for being concerned, but don’t be too concerned. After I had posted that comment I could see I hadn’t made it very clear what I was meaning. I don’t use Wiki that much, but on a few occasions, when I’ve checked to see what they’ve had to say, about people I thought were providing good information, I’ve discovered that those people were being misrepresented. In the case of Dr. Spencer I thought it looked like Wiki was wanting others to add material that would result in him coming across as being someone not so deserving of being taken seriously.

                What I’ve seen of Dr. Spencer’s work so far, and Professor Carter’s, looks good.

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      Travis T. Jones

      The sun controls earth’s climate.

      When all solar cycles can be combined (red). Plotted against a global temperature anomaly for last 260 years (black) we see lovely correlation.
      Graph: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/color-online-15-yr-running-average-record-SM6-black-reconstruction-RM6-according-to_fig4_258612978

      From: Multi-periodic climate dynamics: Spectral analyses of long-term instrumental and proxy temperature records
      https://www.researchgate.net/publication/258612978_Multi-periodic_climate_dynamics_Spectral_analyses_of_long-term_instrumental_and_proxy_temperature_records

      via rogertallbloke

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      theRealUniverse

      Its only the Sun. But you must take into the account its also the solar magnetic activity an interaction with the geomagnetic field of the earth, via CME, flares and sun spots (now at a absolute minimum).

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      joseph

      Remember, I’m only 10 years old.

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      • #
        Travis T. Jones

        “Remember, I’m only 10 years old.”

        Ok. Try some old fables: https://americanliterature.com/childrens-stories/henny-penny-the-sky-is-falling

        And, The Muppets: the boy who cried wolf – who do you think you’re foolin’?
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntSzlq1KbDA

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        • #
          joseph

          I don’t imagine I’m fooling anyone . . . . I’m just interested to know what you, or others, might put before your grandchildren, or children, that was of a scientific nature, to counter the flood that is their experience through the education system.

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            Travis T. Jones

            Sorry. I didn’t mean you (joesph) was trying to fool anyone re:Muppet link.

            You are correct that a ten year old will not comprehend graphs of solar cycles ect.

            But a few of the old fables might appeal more.

            And, I guess you are aware of the history of the fables. The history is relevant and a fun read-

            “Aesop’s Fables” (Lat: “Aesopica”) refers to a collection of well-known fables credited to Aesop, a slave and story-teller who lived in ancient Greece in the 6th Century BCE.
            It is also sometimes used as a blanket term for any collections of short fables (i.e. any brief story used to illustrate a moral lesson), especially beast fables involving anthropomorphic animals.
            They have been popular throughout history, and remain a popular choice for moral education of children even today.”
            https://www.ancient-literature.com/greece_aesop_fables.html

            A List of the Fables (Library of Congress): http://www.read.gov/aesop/001.html

            NB: The full muppet sketch is no longer easily found with algorithm changes at youtube. The song remains unedited so far.

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            robert rosicka

            If your serious Joseph dig up any of the warnings about the melting sea ice and sea level rise and do the ice and water in the glass experiment .
            Explaining PH is also easy enough and easy to demonstrate the absurdity that the oceans are becoming more acidic claim .
            No idea how to easily explain and demonstrate the many other lies passed off as science unless you can get them to understand the difference between “Theory” and “Fact” which even adults such as Fitz are incapable of comprehending.

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          • #
            Kalm Keith

            What education system.

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            • #
              • #
                GrahamP

                Joseph. Well done for having an inquiring mind. If my 10 year old grandchild asked me that question I would answer like this.

                This video talks about how the sun and other factors affect the earth’s climate and may answer part of your question.

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95TtXYjOEv4

                Over large and very large time scales (hundreds, thousands and tens of thousand years) changes in the sun’s output, together with movements of the earth within our solar system, can result in big climate changes, such as the medieval warm period, the little ice age and ice ages.

                There is still a lot of science to be discovered about these events and to fully understand them requires knowledge of advanced physics and mathematics which you will begin to learn about in high school.

                Good luck with your search for knowledge.

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                joseph

                Just had a look at the film. Could be helpful. Thanks.

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          • #
            el gordo

            Craig Kelly was on Sky News this morning with graphs from NOAA showing that the USA has been cooling, it was good value.

            The only way to snap the 10 year olds out of mass delusion is with comedy, more precisely satire, we have to devise a strategy to get them laughing at themselves.

            (Apologies for my earlier mean spirited comment)

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              robert rosicka

              With all the trolls we get sometimes it’s hard not to be suspicious Elgordo but Joseph does have a very good point in how to explain it in plain easy speak and easy understand ways .
              Let’s face it those that are brainwashed just put their fingers in their ears , stamp their feet and shout la la la when their religion is challenged .

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            Rickwill

            Climate modeling developed from weather models. These are incapable of resolving the formation of clouds sufficiently to determine earth’s energy balance.

            Water and its distribution over the surface and in the atmosphere control the energy balance. Thick clouds reduce solar input while sea ice reduces heat loss. Ocean temperature has increase by 0.08C in the last 60 years. This tiny increase is not alarming and is cyclic.

            There is no change in the variability of weather, just that warmer events get wider reporting because it gets attention.

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      el gordo

      Approximately every thousand years there is a warm blip on a downward trajectory. So we could scare the bejesus out of them with a real impending disaster: Holocene’s End

      https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/clip_image0045.jpg

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      Kalm Keith

      I assumed you were. Sorry.

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        joseph

        No problem Keith, a compliment really, I was wondering if I’d get away with saying I was ten. I was thinking I was only 9 and a half when I wrote that.

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      tom0mason

      @joseph September 22, 2019 at 8:08 am
      Your question –
      Does the sun really have anything to do with climate?

      Taken that this planet has warmed by about 1°C since 1850 lets look at what the solar irradiation was doing during that time …
      http://www.climate4you.com/images/SolarIrradianceReconstructedSince1610%20LeanUntil2000%20From2001dataFromPMOD.gif

      Which shows “Solar irradiance since 1610 as reconstructed by Lean et al (1995) and Lean (2000), until 2000. From 2001 data from PMOD/WRC are used. The thin line indicates the annual reconstructed solar irradiance, while the thick line shows the running 11 average.”

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    yarpos

    Received an email from my poles and wires electricity distributor Ausnet the other day. It is forewarning us valued customers of expected disruptions in the coming summer season and encouraging us to prepare for it.

    My how the world has changed. That last 50 years of being able to take reliable and affordable power for granted seems like a distant fantasy world.

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    • #
      AndyG55

      Why not write back and say that “disruptions” are unacceptable.

      They have a contract to supply, they better meet that contract.

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      • #
        David Maddison

        A lot of Leftist propaganda is about conditioning people against the expectation of a 100% reliable or cheap electricity supply.

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    Travis T. Jones

    Stupid on Steroids …

    Climate protest in the snow at Mount Hotham

    “Alpine communities also joined the protest with locals at Mount Hotham in Victoria expressing deep concern about global warming.”

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-20/climate-protest-in-the-snow-at-mount-hotham-in-victoria-1/11533518

    Nothing says global warming like snow.

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    David Maddison

    Great way to teach kids to be freeloaders plus some public serpent departments and virtue sigballing businesses gave time off as well for the strike against climate. Nothing more than child abuse of brainwashed kids.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7484625/School-children-admit-dont-care-climate-change-just-want-day-off.html?fbclid=IwAR1d7rZOdAJlG5IS6xdTpE-4OFZjdD1PcNMfnX43w8zeLuDnqEePVuaMafg

    https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6388899/canberra-businesses-give-staff-day-off-to-join-climate-strike/

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      PeterS

      So when are they going to protest in front of the Chinese and Indian embassies for building collectively hundreds more coal fired power plants and for buying our coal? Or are the kids and adults so poor at arithmetic they can’t understand no matter how many coal fired power plants are closed down here the total around the world will still keep increasing at a fast pace, and that no matter how coal mines are shut down here those other countries will get their coal from elsewhere? When are they are going to realise they are asking Australia to destroy itself for absolutely no benefit to the climate?

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        C. Paul Barreira

        Australian children’s abilities with arithmetic are probably comparable with that of our political classes: minimal, at best; non-existent, at worst.

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        • #

          I was in the small number of items checkout at Woolies (too lazy to go through the self serve) and a young nearly twentysomething was scrolling through my seven items, and at the end, just before she hit the ‘tally up’ button, I gave her the total cost, and then rounded it up to the next five cents.

          She looked at me, and said ….. “How did you do that?”

          Tony.

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            Greg in NZ

            Same-same for me tonight, Tony.
            Mine came to $42.50 so I gave the young woman a $50 note and $2.50 in coins: she was befuddled, even more so when she went to type that figure into the register. I suggested if she gave me a $10 note then everyone would be happy. The machine pinged ‘$10 change’ and the look on her face was priceless. “It’s magic” I said, took my money and receipt, thanked her, then drove home to grill up fillet steaks and lamb chops, with homemade fries and fresh salad/tomatoes smothered in mayo…

            For extra fun I occasionally ask them to count my change backwards…

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              Carbon500

              Greg in NZ – I’ve never had this occur here in the UK when I’ve tendered cash in the way that you’ve described. Interesting!

              00

              • #
                Greg in NZ

                Never? Ever? Obviously digital native millennial iPhone activists young people don’t work in retail over there. Or maybe arithmetic is still taught in the UK – as distinct from the New Math here, which is as scientific as ‘carbon pollution’ ;-)

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            Geoff Sherrington

            Tony,
            Is that the lane labelled “14 items or less” when it should be “14 items or fewer”?
            It is hard to witness the loss of the finer points of our fine English language. I wonder if this loss is felt by the 20% or so of our local customers who chose Mandarin or Cantonese anyhow. Geoff S

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      Zane

      Since there is no such thing as anthropogenic climate change it is good that they don’t care about it.

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      theRealUniverse

      Nice of Canberra businesses to be so generous..strike day off..getting subsidies (tax right offs) to pay for it?

      40

  • #
    beowulf

    Here I was thinking that mounds of dead raptors were shovelled up from the base of every tall building early each morning before the public could see them; I thought Tiddles the cat killed Wedgetails for breakfast, but apparently not.

    This from Quadrant on Australian & US wind turbine bird mortality. We all know about the bird-choppers, but of particular interest is the section headed Virtuous Corruption in Avian Mortality Studies which punches holes in the time-honoured “power stations kill more birds than wind turbines” line.

    The US researcher Benjamin Sovacool’s paper is slammed:

    . . . future possible deaths from climate change constitute fully 97.9 per cent of the 9.36 deaths per GWh that he attributes to fossil fuel generation.

    The old future possible deaths from climate change trick as Maxwell Smart would say.

    https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2019/09/wind-energy-and-the-extinction-of-eagles/

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      PeterS

      Unfortunately most people don’t give a damn about that. Self-centred and ignorant people will only wake up to the renewables scam when they are impacted directly, such as from much higher prices and/or frequent power blackouts. The lesson has to be taught the hard way. Of course we could do with a strong PM who would expose the scam but sadly we don’t have one.

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      AndyG55

      ““power stations kill more birds than wind turbines””

      Odd that no-one has ever been able to produce a picture of all these birds, or even one, that has been killed by a coal fired power station.

      Must be like all the extinct species that no-one can name one of in the last 50 year or so.

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      Hanrahan

      Wedgies are often road kill, feeding on carrion. Either they are too slow to launch or they try to carry their dinner with them. Dunno.

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        robert rosicka

        I wonder how long it will be before the birds killed by wind turbines and solar fryers are blamed on climate change and the need for this no emission tech .

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        Environment Skeptic

        Cars have turbines and a fan for the radiator. If the radiator fan and turbocharger could be remnoved, we might see fewer birds being killed. :)

        10

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          Greg in NZ

          I’m liking your train of thought, ES.
          Our small native falcon, karearea (car-raya-raya), take-on immigrant blow-in harrier hawks and always end up the victor. Observing their aerial dog-fight antics is one of Nature’s outstanding marvels. Needless to say, Greentards will probably soon want them banned/exterminated/86d as they’re a danger to the recent arrivals. It’s all about morals and priorities innit?

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    TedM

    I keep an eye on sea surface temperatures here https://i1.wp.com/www1.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/oisst/navy-anom-bb.gif

    I’ve noticed what appears to be a cooling trend in the Sthn hemisphere. There is the recent appearance of an anomalously cool area in the equatorial Atlantic that you can see if you follow the previous link. There is even an anomalous cool patch in the Nthn hemisphere (Arctic).

    Has anyone else been watching this? Perhaps a data nerd who may have plotted a trend? I’d be interested in any sensible comments or observations.

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      Travis T. Jones

      Here is another angle:

      ENSO and the anchovy
      https://judithcurry.com/2015/05/11/enso-and-the-anchovy/

      “The migrations, dispersals and gatherings, and year to year biomass peaks and crashes of the anchovy fishery in the eastern Pacific off Peru are tuned with exquisite sensitivity to ENSO itself.
      In particular it is the Peruvian upwelling, one side of the Bjerknes feedback (the other being the trade winds) which both couple intermittently to provide the bursts of positive feedback that drive El Niño and La Nina episodes.

      El Niño is bad for the Peruvian fishermen since it is bad for the anchovy.”

      March 4 2019: Mild El Nino conditions cloud 2019 outlook for Peru anchovy industry
      https://www.undercurrentnews.com/2019/03/04/mild-el-nino-conditions-cloud-2019-outlook-for-peru-anchovy-industry/

      June: Over 78% of Peru’s center-north anchovy quota fished to date
      The trend has been for a normalization of anchovy biomass since a four-year El Nino started to disappear last year.

      A measurement of the biomass showed 7.2 million metric tons last year compared with 6.1m metric tons in 2017 and 4.4m metric tons in 2014.

      It exceeded 10m metric tons in both 2011 and 2013, according to figures provided by the National Fishing Society.
      https://www.undercurrentnews.com/2019/06/20/over-78-of-perus-center-north-anchovy-quota-fished-to-date/

      >> A mild El Niño, and the anchovy shows no sign of boiling in an acidic ocean that is;

      - here, now!
      - or will be …
      - or the last time carbon (sic) levels were this high … (oops, 97% consensus science!)

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    Hanrahan

    My son told me that France has had to take half a dozen nuclear plants off line for rectification of a manufacturing defect but a search shows nothing.

    If true supply would have been tight late last week with Britain’s windmills generating half a GW and the whole of Europe in low wind conditions.

    Note: I see that France has 58 reactors so maybe no big deal.

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    beowulf

    For those who — like me — weren’t aware, September 15th was Battle of Britain Day commemorating the greatest aerial battle over London on that day in 1940, with RAF Fighter Command battling for the survival of Britain and western democracy.

    How tragic that many of the grandchildren and great grandchildren of the generation that saved Britain from tyranny now wish to throw away that achievement of their forebears by allowing the modern tyranny of the EU to dictate their lives. You see apparent idiots like Hugh Grant spouting off that his grandfather fought to keep Britain free and therefore because Grant wants his kids to live in a free country, Boris has no right to prorogue parliament to stop the will of the people being overturned by traitors?????? Riiiight.

    At least during the war the common enemy was in front of the Brits, goose-stepping beyond the channel, not at their backs spread throughout the country sabotaging UK interests from within, and concentrated in parliament and the swamp. I wonder if the UK is headed for a second Civil War if the Remainers don’t get their way via legal means.

    Perhaps one day Brexit Day will be celebrated like Independence Day.

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    Yonniestone

    Had an interesting exchange yesterday, a young couple next to me commented on my choice of vehicle in the supermarket car park saying it was helping to destroy the planet, I drive a late model Holden V8 ute which is kept in very good condition inside and out, really? I questioned and saw that they drove a Volkswagen Diesel of some sort I offered a challenge.

    We would start our cars at the same time and after a quick warm up (they already were) we’d rev them to 3/4 of rev capacity with one of them behind the cars along with my mate, thinking I just wanted to show off the noise level of my ute they agreed, and with a few onlookers by now being right at the entrance it began.

    Immediately on startup the Volkswagen puffed out a small cloud of smoke causing the two onlookers to manoeuvre out of the way, mine gave a quick boom of noise then settled into its rumble no smoke or fumes, then the rev test, the Volkswagen at the higher revs gave an almost consistent plume of smoke where the ute produced only a change in note from the exhaust.

    Turning the cars off I questioned the couple on who’s car was worse for the environment even showing the tips of my exhaust always stayed fairly clean compared to the black soot on theirs, explaining the difference between energy density of fuels and the burn processes this was not taken well by the driver but seemed to interest the passenger, my mate a mechanic just laughed the whole time.

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      David Maddison

      I assume your ute (US = pickup) has an LS series engine. While “primitive” in basic layout with only two valves per cylinder etc. it is fundamentally a technological miracle with its fuel economy, relatively low cost and high power output with plenty of scope for even greater power output with only minor modifications.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LS_based_GM_small-block_engine?wprov=sfla1

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        Yonniestone

        Yes its an LS2 6.0 Litre the L77 config with AFM (active fuel management) where the four centre cylinders disable under light loads leaving the two either end firing creating a V four that uses half the fuel, this occurs very quickly with a slight change in note the only indication of it happening.

        On the open highway I can average 8-8.5 litres per 100 kms which is amazing for a primitive engine layout, the only modification is free flowing rear mufflers I didn’t get it for economy but its a nice feature I didn’t expect, from logging travel distances I calculated that a higher octane fuel gives better mileage than lower fuel, is more economic cost wise and burns cleaner from spark plug and exhaust inspections.

        60

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          There is nothing quite like a V8…..

          60

          • #
            Yonniestone

            As David said the scope to get more power out of them is amazing, on the other side of technology I came across a you tube channel called Uncle Tony’s Garage that gives decidedly old school information for anyone interested in pre 1980′s cars, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9SzQNYLqsPQGY_nbHogDDw

            He mostly focuses on Dodge/Chrysler but covers all mechanical basics, he’s a natural presenter with a wealth of information and automotive history, don’t miss his friend Lambchop introduced during the Project Bottle Rocket series, an absolute out of the box character!

            50

  • #
    Hanrahan

    Found this on another forum:

    https://www.smart-energy.com/indust…-technology-to-charge-an-ev-100-times-faster/

    A new carbon-ion battery technology has been developed by ZapGo Ltd and is expected to charge an electric vehicle 100 times faster than existing battery technologies.
    The technology has been developed in Oxford in the UK, to charge an EV in 35 seconds and providing a 350-mile (500 km) range, comparable to traditional combustion engine vehicles.
    The battery has solid-state carbon-ion cells and contains no lithium or cobalt, ensuring relative lower cost and safety.

    Frankly I find the idea of equipment capable of transferring 80 kWHs in 35 secs in the hands of the average Joe scary as ell. Is that 600A @ 240V? It would need massive rectifiers, too big to think about.

    90

  • #
    Lance

    Deaths attributable to Heat and Cold

    Cold was responsible for most of the deaths, 7.29%, while the fraction attributable to heat was small, 0.42%.

    That’s about a 15:1 ratio. Apparently, Cold Kills.

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(14)62114-0/fulltext

    70

  • #
    Deplorable Lord Kek

    the tipping point has arrived: this UN mass hysteria push is gonna backfire bigly.

    90

  • #
    Another Ian

    ““Fossil fuels subsidies” as described in the media for the most part don’t exist – are governments really willing to build policy on a fictitious concept?”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2019/09/21/fossil-fuels-subsidies-as-described-in-the-media-for-the-most-part-dont-exist-are-governments-really-willing-to-build-policy-on-a-fictitious-concept/

    30

    • #
      Hanrahan

      Fossil fuels are taxed, not subsidised.

      “Depletion allowance” in the US concerned me but I read last night that it is available only to small producers and like depreciation reduces to zero over time.

      50

      • #
        Dennis

        Another leftist trick is to refer to revenue as taxable income and claim that companies are not paying enough company tax.

        And the “subsidies” are in fact legal tax deductions for expenses incurred in producing taxable income. Available to all businesses when completing a tax return, including so called renewables operating businesses however, they receive real subsidies in addition.

        80

        • #
          Dennis

          Of course mining companies, farmers and others that operate vehicles off public roads can apply for fuel excise/tax rebates, but that is not a subsidy.

          110

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            How is not?

            19

            • #
              AndyG55

              read the tax laws, troll. !

              80

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              Subsidy – a sum of money granted by the state or a public body to help an industry or business keep the price of a commodity or service low. for primary produces, who don’t use public roads (important point in this discussion), the rebate is against the excise levied by the government. but no matter which way you cut it – it is money from the government, and is therefore a subsidy.

              its free money given out by the government. Rebates on the other hand are generally given out by business

              Read the tax laws yourself

              29

              • #
                AndyG55

                Why do you always show your base-level ignorance about everything, PF ?

                What you have copy pasted is NOT what farmers and primary producers get.

                The statement is IRRELEVANT, dolt.

                The TAX REBATE is NOT free money, it is a refund of road tax that should not have been paid by the primary producer in the first place.

                Learn, fool, if you are capable of it.

                ——–

                “Rebates on the other hand are generally given out by business”

                What a nonsense statement.. businesses give out rebates ?? … DOH !!!!

                Think before you type, PF.

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              • #
                AndyG55

                REBATE.. a partial refund to someone who has paid too much for tax, rent, or a utility.

                60

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                its government money – it is a subsidy

                29

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Andy – tax, rent, or a utility which one applies for Fuel, it’s not a direct tax, nor is it a utility or rent

                27

              • #
                robert rosicka

                “Free money given out by the government ” says Fitz and to farmers he says !
                Maybe you should go to a clearing sale at a farm that’s being repossessed and mention that to the farmer , or a cattle sale and ask them what they do with the free money the government gives them .
                Oh please I beg you do it .

                61

              • #
                AndyG55

                “its government money – it is a subsidy”

                WRONG,

                Its the person’s money being returned to them.

                Comprehension issues again, PF ???

                Seems to be your way, to double down on ignorant memes of deception even when they are PROVABLY WRONG.

                41

              • #
                AndyG55

                “it’s not a direct tax”

                RUBBISH, you pay it whenever you buy petrol.

                Stop digging deeper into your own BS, PF, its all falling back in on you.

                But that seems to be the way you like it.

                Living a life buried in your own BS.

                51

              • #
                robert rosicka

                Yes Andy I noticed the “government money” claim as well , the government don’t have any money of their own it’s all our money .

                40

              • #
                Hanrahan

                “its free money given out by the government.”

                This stupidity makes me so mad I could spit! IT IS THE MINERS’ OWN MONEY paid COD when invoiced for the fuel. After a passage of time and jumping through hoops, they get the ROAD TAX back.

                41

              • #
                AndyG55

                “This stupidity…..”

                Is all PF has to offer.

                Its DELIBERATE, you know that don’t you, H.

                Its his way of gaining attention, ie trolling.

                11

              • #
                Hanrahan

                Yea Andy. It would be different if you only needed to explain this once, but next week the same stupidity will be rolled out again.

                They KNOW they are lying, they can’t be that dumb.

                21

              • #
                Carbon500

                And where do you suppose that governments get the money from in the first place?

                00

            • #
              Hanrahan

              It is a specific tax designed to fund road repair and maintenance. Your brat nephew pays it on the fuel for his dirt bike, but he should, technically, be entitled to a refund. The miners can ONLY claim the rebate on fuel they can PROVE was used on the lease, none used in their registered vehicles can be rebated. My son was part of the industry that has grown to document this.

              Note: The miners pay the tax up front and only get their rebate after it is used. There’s millions of interest free money for your government.

              How much is involved?

              https://www.flickr.com/photos/dark_orange/2779448624/in/album-72157607497979216/

              https://www.flickr.com/photos/dark_orange/3467079946/in/album-72157607497979216/

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              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                So you are saying money from subsidies is bad, but money from rebates is good. In both cases you are getting free money, so call it subsidy or rebate the effect is the same.

                For example: Tradies who have backhoes, and transport them on a trailer, should they get a rebate?

                To say that miners benefit from a rebate, but they are not being subsidised is illogical

                05

              • #
                Hanrahan

                PF Backhoes are road registered so the rebate does not apply. But technically ALL diesel used in off-road applications should be rebatable. If trawlers had to pay road tax you would only be able to buy Asian farmed prawns.

                00

              • #
                AndyG55

                “So you are saying money from subsidies is bad, but money from rebates is good.”

                Poor PF still the lack of comprehension about the difference.

                So stupid !!

                01

        • #
          Zane

          Most leftists failed Accounting 101.

          70

          • #
            PeterS

            They failed in more basic elements of arithmetic let alone accounting.

            70

            • #
              AndyG55

              And PF, a rabid leftist/Marxist/totalitarian, shows that to be true with basically every post he makes.

              Not just arithmetic, but also science, physics, and anything related to rational thought.

              61

              • #
                PeterS

                True. However, I was using arithmetic as the foundation. Without a good understanding of arithmetic (as distinct from mathematics) there is no point even mentioning the other topics.

                20

      • #
        Hanrahan

        I’ve found the vid I just quoted. Interesting.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHRLbxyMnUM

        10

  • #
    pat

    300+ now! fact-free:

    VIDEO: 26min30sec: 21 Sept: Aljazeera Listening Post: Covering Climate Now: Will the media seize the moment?
    A global network of 300+ media outlets ramps up climate coverage. And, the media activists reporting on Rio’s favelas
    Climate crisis: How mainstream media are part of the problem
    Record heatwaves in Europe and Africa. Droughts in southern India on an unprecedented scale. Hurricanes – more frequent and violent than ever. And wildfires in, of all places, the Arctic.
    The global news media are, after decades of looking the other way, finally waking up to what scientists have long called an emergency – climate change.

    Take Covering Climate Now, an alliance across six continents of more than 300 media outlets, including Al Jazeera, currently running a week’s worth of climate coverage in the lead up to a summit on the subject in New York.
    The shortfall in the coverage and the shortcomings expose the ugly, irresponsible side of modern journalism, particularly the corporate kind.
    The Listening Post looks at how the mainstream media are part of the problem.
    Lead contributors:
    Mark Hertsgaard – co-founder, Covering Climate Now and Environment Correspondent, The Nation
    Jayashree Nandi – environment reporter, Hindustan Times
    Sipho Kings – news editor, The Mail & Guardian and Author, ‘South Africa’s Survival Guide to Climate Change’
    George Monbiot – columnist, The Guardian
    https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/listeningpost/2019/09/covering-climate-media-seize-moment-190921064058274.html

    ***not mentioned below – Severn Cullis-Suzuki is the daugher of David Suzuki; the carbon footprint for this program is rather high!

    VIDEO: 25min50sec: 21 Sept: Aljazeera: Planet SOS: Voices from the frontlines of the climate crisis
    From the jungles of French Guiana to Somalia and New York, we look at the issues behind the crisis facing our planet.
    As millions of people across the world take to the streets calling for action against climate change, Planet SOS speaks to some of the protesters who are taking part, including a Ugandan activist who was inspired by Swedish schoolgirl Greta Thunberg. We follow her from her home on the outskirts of Kampala as she prepares to travel to New York…
    Al Jazeera’s diplomatic editor James Bays sits down with Antonio Guterres, the United Nations secretary-general, ahead of the climate summit he is hosting next week.

    Before Greta Thunberg there was environmental activist ***Severn Cullis-Suzuki who addressed the UN in 1992 when she was aged just 12. Planet SOS’s Amanda Burrell speaks to her about the comparison with Greta, what has changed and whether protests by today’s youth will make a difference.
    We also visit some of the frontlines of the environmental and climate crisis
    Al Jazeera’s environment correspondent Nick Clark travels to the rainforests of French Guiana with the French military and looks at the effects illegal gold panning is having on rivers in some of the most remote places in the world.
    Mohammed Adow is in Somalia where the biggest drought for generations is forcing thousands to flee their homes…
    https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/planet-sos/2019/09/planet-sos-voices-frontlines-climate-crisis-190917105943741.html

    21 Sept: Aljazeera: Planet SOS: Amazon fires fears rainforest will become desert
    Last month, the number of wildfires in the Amazon tripled compared with the previous year.
    by Lucia Newman
    Despite a ban on fires for land-clearing, the Amazon is burning at a rate not seen in almost a decade.
    Al Jazeera’s Lucia Newman reports from Chapada dos Guimaraes in the state of Mato Grosso.
    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/09/planet-sos-amazon-fires-fears-rainforest-desert-190920153336750.html

    Aljazeera: About Planet SOS
    Every part of the globe is feeling the heat of the climate and ecological emergency. Many of the world’s leading scientists are warning of an existential crisis in the face of irreversible and adverse changes to the earth’s climate. Al Jazeera’s environmental show Planet SOS explores the issues around climate, nature and pollution that make up the crisis facing the planet.

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    • #
      pat

      21 Sept: Aljazeera: Youth leaders at UN demand bold climate change action
      Swedish teenager Greta Thunberg opens the first ever Youth Summit on climate change at the UN headquarters
      A day after climate strikes convulsed cities across the globe, with hundreds of thousands of young people opting to skip school and take to the streets instead, youth leaders have gathered at the United Nations to demand radical action on climate change.
      The UN invited 500 young activists and entrepreneurs to take part in Saturday’s meeting – the first of its kind – at the body’s headquarters in New York.

      Among those in attendance on Saturday was 16-year-old Swedish activist Greta Thunberg…
      Fellow activist Bruno Rodriguez, 19, who led school strikes in his native Argentina, warned that “climate and ecological crisis” was the “political, economic and cultural crisis of our time”…

      Strike organisers 350.org said Friday’s rallies were the start of 5,800 protests across 163 countries over the next week.
      The protests will coincide with a landmark UN report due to be unveiled next week which will warn global warming and pollution are ravaging Earth’s oceans and icy regions in ways that could unleash misery on a global scale…

      “Hold my generation accountable. My generation has largely failed until now to preserve both justice in the world and the planet,” (UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres) added…
      Al Jazeera’s James Bays, reporting from the UN, said Guterres was hoping to capitalise on the “people power” seen on Friday and the leading role taken by youth activists, in particular, to fuel global action on climate change.
      “What the UN are hoping is that they can leverage all of this public pressure with the mass protests and the youth summit to Monday,” Bays said, referring to the upcoming climate action summit.
      https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/09/youth-leaders-demand-bold-climate-change-action-190921163443033.html

      20

      • #
        pat

        Qatar – a major beneficiary of the CAGW scam:

        31 Aug: Aljazeera: Oil giants shower Qatar with crown jewels in race for LNG prize
        The world’s biggest oil firms hope to get a piece of the action when Qatar expands its liquified natural gas operations.
        When Royal Dutch Shell wanted to buy a stake last year in a promising exploration block off South Africa, Total SA, the asset’s main shareholder, used its right to stymie the deal and acquired the share itself, only to sell it on to Qatar Petroleum.
        The rapid turn of events caught some of those involved by surprise, according to company sources close to the transaction, the details of which have not previously been reported.

        For Total, this was part of a wider quest to tighten ties with Qatar Petroleum (QP) in an effort to secure a stake in the Gulf country’s planned expansion of its liquefied natural gas (LNG) facilities, already the world’s largest and one of the most lucrative projects in the energy sector.
        The race for a role in the project has drawn in several of the world’s largest energy companies, including ExxonMobil and Shell, which have also offered QP stakes in some of their most prized ventures.

        ***Energy companies see natural gas, the least polluting hydrocarbon, as a key fuel in the transition to a lower-carbon economy as concerns mount over climate change and global warming. Liquefying the gas allows its transportation to consumer countries such as India, China and Japan, and demand for LNG is expected to soar in coming decades.

        Qatar’s LNG production facilities, in which Total already holds a stake along with Shell, Exxon and ConocoPhillips, offer investors access to vast resources at among the cheapest production costs…
        QP wants to expand its LNG production to around 110 million tonnes per annum (mtpa) from today’s 77 mtpa over the next five years by building four new production facilities, known as trains…

        ExxonMobil, the world’s largest publicly traded oil major and the largest investor in Qatar LNG, has bolstered its global network with QP in recent months with a number of high-profile joint ventures.
        Those include a $10bn joint investment in the Golden Pass LNG project on the Gulf Coast in the southern United States and a stake in ExxonMobil’s gas development off Mozambique, which is set to be one of the world’s largest LNG projects in the next decade. Both firms also acquired exploration blocks off Brazil, Argentina and Cyprus…

        Shell, the largest foreign investor in Qatar, has recently applied to join the board of the US-Qatar Business Council, industry sources said.
        In 2014, Shell sold a 23 percent interest in a large project off the shore of Brazil to Qatar Petroleum International, then the country’s foreign investment fund. The two companies also jointly won exploration rights in Mexico last year.
        Rivals that are not part of the existing LNG production, including Chevron Corporation and Italy’s Eni, also hope to win a foothold in the expansion…
        Chevron last month teamed up with QP to build an $8bn petrochemicals complex in Qatar…
        International investments have become “an arm of foreign policy” for Qatar, the executive said…ETC ETC ETC
        https://www.aljazeera.com/ajimpact/oil-giants-shower-qatar-crown-jewels-race-lng-prize-190830100012886.html

        21 Sept: United World Data: Will Qatar become an Arab Superpower?
        by Mani Mehrabi, Senior international affairs analyst, Faculty member at the Think tank of International Relations (Tehran, Iran)
        Qatar’s strengths include the state of its energy production, its influential media reach and its extremely convenient foreign exchange reserves. Despite its size, the country is well endowed with natural energy resources: it is the world’s largest liquefied natural gas exporter, and has the world’s third-largest gas reserves. Qatar is also among the top ten countries in the world in terms of foreign exchange reserves, mainly due to its high gas sales and low population. Another indicator of Qatar’s power is its command of influential mass media resources at the international level, which will be discussed in the next section…

        TWEET: The Guardian (re Aljazeera)

        In the field of soft power, Qatar has two important factors working in its favor in terms of soft power: the mass media and sports.
        Founded in 2003 by the Emir of Qatar, Al Jazeera has a strong influence over the people of the Middle East and even some regional rulers; it has become an essential part of the media landscape in the Middle East and Arab world. Al Jazeera is able to freely cover issues around the world as long as it avoids criticism of Qatar’s rulers, and already plays a vital role in Qatar’s hegemony in the Middle East…
        https://uwidata.com/5412-will-qatar-become-an-arab-superpower/

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        • #
          Zane

          Qatar and the gas majors like Shell are prime culprits in the demonization of coal fired power. They want thermal coal left in the ground and their invisible gases monetized.

          70

          • #

            It’s the thing that’s so important for Australians to grasp. They stand to be the biggest losers in the War on Coal, and in that war they have no allies.

            For now, coal can be dug and exported in any amount because Big Green couldn’t care less about “carbon”. Also, a green-preaching media-smartie like Sanjeev Gupta can save us from “Whyalla Wipeout” by snapping up the steelworks at a bargain price then buying coal fields in NSW to feed it. Lots of government sweeteners to help him along of course. All he then has to do is talk a lot of green mush at the Guardianistas while shoveling lots of black coal before our eyes…and the media and luvvies will not utter or hear a word against him.

            The War on Coal will have its privileged and exempt classes. It is directed mainly against the simple Australian consumer, and it is part of a wider conditioning process involving ever mounting social and economic controls, all thoroughly sinister, of course.

            The War on Coal has to be fought ruthlessly and won decisively. That’s why sites like JoNova matter and why contributors like TonyfromOz matter. The war is real, the stakes high and so far the globalists have made all the forward moves. Remember: we don’t have nukes or a tangle of interconnections around the South Pacific to mask the failures of non-hydro renewables and Uphill Snowy. These feeble antique technologies will kill us. We need to kill them. It’s called war for a reason.

            Do tradition, family, property. Do conservation. Do coal. STOP GLOBALISM.

            60

            • #
              Zane

              Things like the greens trying to tax the Australian coal miners fir the emissions when the exported coal is burnt by the end users in Asia, in steel mills and thermal plants, is very dangerous. It would cripple the industry. Russia and the Arabs don’t face these threats, nor does Indonesia, a huge exporter of cheaper grades of thermal product. In fact Russia is expanding its coal exports to Asia. It’s a direct competitor. As for Gupta, there was something in the Weekend Oz about his considering an IPO. He’ll juice up the numbers on Whyalla and flip it at a nice profit to the institutions and move on to the next moneymaker. No law against it, but the green he is most concerned with is dollars.

              10

  • #
    • #
      Greg in NZ

      Enjoyed your 2nd one, Ian:
      ‘Precipitation Outlook for Australia & New Zealand’ (we made it!).
      Another metre of snow on the way for our mountains
      with perfect timing [as usual] for the first week of Spring (huzzah!).
      We got plenty water here for sale if you want…

      30

  • #

    It seems the Obamas really do believe that climate change will swamp coastal regions. Their new Martha’s Vineyard compound and rambling mansion (15 biggies, thank you) are very close to sea level, so there is jacuzzi on the second-floor balcony.

    You only have a jacuzzi on the second-floor balcony if you are worried about rising sea levels, right?

    Seriously, the Thunbergs and Obamas and Gores and Steyers are not concerned about contradictions. The jets, carbon-fibre yachts and sea-side mansions are intentional parts of the script, not flaws. It’s all a comic play…but one where the actors get to laugh at the audience.

    140

  • #
    pat

    this might be a rare ABC program worth watching.

    MULTIPLE PICS: 22 Sept: ABC: Tasmanians master the craft of turning unique natural features into popular pools
    ABC Radio Hobart By Georgie Burgess
    Tasmania’s cool conditions have never stopped its people enjoying swimming and diving — whether it be in rivers, springs, basins or even an old farm block…
    Mrs Bresnehan said divers had to wear wetsuits because they got cold while waiting for right-of-way from swimmers.
    And during Hobart’s freezing winter, club swimmers had to travel to Launceston to the state’s only indoor 25 metre pool.
    “There was a handful of occasions when it was actually snowing,” Mrs Bresnehan said…

    “I can remember on very hot days. The cement was so hot to walk on, so we had to run. And then we were in trouble for running at the pool,” Alyson Magrath said…
    “Endless summers, I loved this place!” Eleanor Tucker said.
    “The smell of pies, sauce, chlorine, chips and coconut oil. The feel of hot, wet concrete as you spread out under the sun…
    Watch The Pool on ABC TV Sunday September 22 and 29 at 7:40pm.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-22/looking-back-on-tasmanias-pools/11405400

    40

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    The green grifter, Simon Holmes à Court:

    “Meanwhile with every passing quarter, the federal government slips further from achieving its target of 26-28 percent reduction on 2005 levels by 2030, falling way short of Australia’s share of keeping global warming to 1.5 degrees.”

    https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6393447/act-upstages-the-federal-government-with-low-cost-carbon-policy/

    Whoa! Wait. What?

    How many renewables will Canberra need before it is operating at correct temperature, and what would be Simon Holmes à Court preferred temperature?
    Please show your maths, Simon.

    BoM, Canberra Forecast,
    Monday 23 Sept: Min 1° Max 15°
    Tuesday 24Sept: Min -1° Max 18°
    Wednesday,25 Sept: Min -1° Max 19°
    Thur: Min 3° Max 19°
    Fri: Min 1° Max 22

    http://www.bom.gov.au/act/forecasts/canberra.shtml

    How much colder should Canberra be during a September spring?

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    • #
      robert rosicka

      Coldest place I ever lived the winter seemed to last for ever .

      50

      • #
        Hanrahan

        My first winter out of Qld was at Ballarat. The puddles used to freeze and it snowed one morning. We students [mostly from Qld] abandoned the pot-bellied stove and played outside for a while.

        40

    • #
      Adaminaby Angler

      Did you seriously bold the “-1° C” minima, as if that’s anything special for Canberra? Please tell me otherwise…because this is what Canberra’s climate looks like:

      http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averages/tables/cw_070014_All.shtml

      As you can see, –1° C minima are fairly warm for Canberra; not particularly cold at all.

      41

      • #
        Travis T. Jones

        As you can see, –1° C minima are fairly warm for Canberra; not particularly cold at all.

        Further confirmation renewable energy can not prevent carbon (sic) induced doomsday global warmed freezing.

        As the green grifter, Holmes a Court notes, “The five wind farms contributing to the territory’s 100 per cent Renewable Energy Target generated 1.3 TWh of energy last year, more power than is used by all the households in the territory combined …”

        https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6393447/act-upstages-the-federal-government-with-low-cost-carbon-policy/

        How many seabreeze collectors must Canberra build before Canberra contributes to Australia’s share of keeping doomsday global warming freezing to 1.5° C, much lower than a warmer –1° C minima?

        50

    • #
      AndyG55

      Notice that there is not one wind farm in the ACT.

      Now why would that be. ;-)

      Very much a case of NIMBY !!!

      And all those triple counted wind farms all feeding through the NSW grid, so always providing COAL-FIRED back-up.

      90

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    pat

    VIDEO: 2min52sec: 20 Sept: ABC7 New York: More than ***60,000 in New York City attend Global Climate Strike
    Officials said more than 60,000 attended.
    As many as 1.1 million New York City school kids were eligible for an excused absence to participate in the strike…
    https://abc7ny.com/politics/more-than-60000-in-nyc-attend-global-climate-strike/5554828/

    60,000? tell Greta:

    20 Sept: CBS: Millions hit the streets for global climate change strike – live updates
    By Haley Ott
    •Climate activist Greta Thunberg estimated she was joined by ***250,000 in New York City…
    Thunberg addressed the crowd that she estimated to be ***250,000…
    Thunberg tweeted there were an estimated ***250,000 people at the New York City march…
    TWEET: Greta Thunberg
    The estimated number in New York is over ***250,000! They closed the park because there were too many people… I’m speaking soon at Battery Park

    “How we can get more young people involved — I think to just tell them the truth, tell them how it is,” said Thunberg…
    Greta Thunberg tweeted Friday saying at least 3 million people attended early protests across the globe, and that was before counting North and South America…

    The turnout for climate strike protests in Lagos, Nigeria’s largest city, is low, BBC News reports. Approximately 30 people were in the streets…

    Australia’s Great Barrier Reef is dying
    Scientists say warming waters are what pose the greatest threat to the system, last year causing a “mass bleaching event” that “cooked” it, BBC News reports. And coral is struggling to regrow.
    The United Nations is considering adding the reef to its list of endangered sites…

    In Australia, an estimated 300,000 people took to the streets…
    https://www.cbsnews.com/live-news/global-climate-change-strike-protests-today-2019-09-20-live-updates/

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    • #
      pat

      2nd pic of Sydney protest by Chapple (Greens candidate) has a good-sized crowd. Business Insider and Climate Home ask to use it.

      TWEET: Kym Chapple, Greens
      They’re still streaming in! #GlobalClimateStrike PIC SYDNEY
      PIC 2: INCREDIBLE
      https://twitter.com/kymtje/status/1174880364138909696

      best aerial view of Melbourne protest(not tightly-packed). nowhere close to 100,000, even tho some who reply are impressed, including ABC:

      TWEET: Stephen Torsi, Politics, social change, #Melbswest
      Panaromic view of the now massive crowd – Go #Melbourne #climatestrike PIC
      FROM REPLIES:
      Kamara Daughtry, ABC
      I’m with ABC News. Did you take this image/video or otherwise own all rights to it? If so, do you agree to allow ABC News and its licensees to use and distribute without restriction in all media? Full terms: http://abcnews.com/terms..
      https://twitter.com/STorsi/status/1174906115034738688

      almost all MSM were happy to quote organisers’ dodgy figures:

      20 Sept: Daily Mail: ‘I just wanted the day off’: School children admit they used climate change protests as an excuse to skip class – as Melbourne crowd hits 100,000 during mass ‘save the planet’ strike
      By Kelsey Wilkie
      A whopping 100,000 protesters flooded the streets in Melbourne, while Sydney saw 80,000 people march through the CBD to the Domain…
      Brisbane welcomed 30,000 protesters fighting for change, while Adelaide and Hobart tallied crowds of 20,000. ***According to organisers of the event, Canberra saw 15,000 protesters and Perth hosted 10,000…
      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7484625/School-children-admit-dont-care-climate-change-just-want-day-off.html

      Brisbane figures is greatly inflated, according to pics I’ve seen and anecdotal evidence.

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        pat

        21 Sept: USA Today: Friday’s global strike was likely the largest climate rally ever
        by Grace Hauck
        In New York City, where schools excused the city’s 1.1 million students from class to participate, Mayor Bill de Blasio put preliminary crowd estimates at ***60,000. Organizers, however, have pegged that number at closer to ***250,000, making it the largest protest that day…

        Local officials and protest organizers offered varying crowd size estimates. According to organizers, some of the other largest demonstrations took place in Berlin (270,000), London (100,000) and across Australia (about 100,000 protesting in Melbourne, organizers say).
        In the U.S., big groups also turned out in San Francisco (40,000), Denver (7,500) Boston (7,000), Chicago (3,000), Portland (2,000) and Washington, D.C., among other cities…
        (Greta) and other organizers have estimated the worldwide crowd size at 4 million…
        ***She’s likely right — preliminary estimates suggest that Friday’s strike was the largest climate protest in history…

        Putting a number on turnout can be tricky, but researchers with the Crowd Funding Consortium are giving it a shot. Harvard Professor Erica Chenoweth and University of Connecticut Professor Jeremy Pressman are leading a collaborative effort to document crowd size estimates in the U.S. and worldwide.
        Back in 2017, after the first Women’s March, Chenoweth and Pressman launched the consortium to make crowd estimates available to academics and the public. You can see the breakdown of their estimates laid out in spreadsheets here (LINK IS RUBBISH)…

        …the 2003 worldwide protests against the war in Iraq, when somewhere between 10 and 15 million people protested, according to various estimates…
        https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/09/21/global-climate-strike-estimates-crowd-size-millions-worldwide/2401672001/

        some interesting bits and pieces, for comparison:

        21 Sept: FreeWestMedia: Germany: Tens of thousands take part in climate strike
        In the federal capital, according to the organisers of “Fridays for the Future” some 270 000 demonstrators came to the rally in front of the Brandenburg Gate. The police spoke of “well over 10,000″…
        In Hamburg, there were 70 000 people according to police, while “Fridays for the Future” spoke of 100 000.
        According to organisers, 30 000 people took part in Bremen, 25 000 in Munich, 20 000 in Münster and 15,000 in Bonn. According to police, there were 17 000 people in Freiburg…

        And it is the international organisation “Plant-for-the-Planet” headed by none other than Vice President of the German Club of Rome, Fritjof Finkbeiner, which provides “Fridays for for Future” (FFF) with a donation account. It is therefore more than just a coincidence that his son Felix Finkbeiner is being promoted as another Thunberg…

        Jakob Blasel, another leader of the FFF movement, is “supported by Daddy”, some of his critics at Kiel University complained. His father Kristian Blasel is the local chief at Kieler Nachrichten (AXEL SPRINGER NEWSPAPER). In a commentary in the newspaper Kristian condemned the evil shipping companies and their diabolical cruise businesses and praised the port blockades which is being organised by his son.

        In cities across South Africa small groups of people protested on Friday to raise awareness of climate change, reported GroundUp. GroundUp is funded by the Open Society Foundation, run by globalist billionaire George Soros.
        https://freewestmedia.com/2019/09/21/germany-tens-of-thousands-take-part-in-climate-strike/

        aerial views Los Angeles, San Francisco – not large. no figures given.

        VIDEO: 2min45sec: 20 Sept: CBS Los Angeles: Thousands Of Youth Demand Action On Climate Change In Downtown LA
        https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/video/4170791-thousands-of-youth-demand-action-on-climate-change-in-downtown-la/

        btw in the ABC7 video I posted already, the reporter says Greta sailed by herself to New York.

        one of the most amusing accounts concerns tech & WaPo boss’s staff: “Amazon staffers walked out at approximately 11:30 a.m. PT” – CNN thinks it’s important to be that precise?

        20 Sept: CNN: Amazon workers walk out to protest climate change inaction
        by Ahiza Garcia
        Amazon staffers walked out at approximately 11:30 a.m. PT, according to organizers, and gathered in downtown Seattle outside Amazon’s headquarters…
        Staffers held signs with slogans such as “Break free from fossil fuels” and “Great start, Jeff” — a reference to an announcement CEO Jeff Bezos made on Thursday that Amazon plans to be carbon neutral by 2040…

        During the walkout in Seattle, speakers from different tech companies took turns at a podium revving up the crowd.
        “Climate change is and must be a work-appropriate conversation,” a Google (GOOG) employee and action organizer said. “Climate action is your job. This means living our values, walking into the office every day ready to reassert what you believe in.”
        The employee, identified as Sam, said workers need to support one another.
        “We are a community united across tech, across countries,” she said. “We are not Google. We are not Amazon or Microsoft, Facebook, Apple, Twitter. We are human beings and we need each other right now.”

        The group encouraged Amazon to lead in the effort to reach zero emissions — not resign itself to “sliding in at the last moment.” It noted Amazon’s size as one of the reasons the company needs to take action. Amazon employs around 600,000 people globally…
        It’s not the first time Amazon employees have taken a stand over environmental issues. In May, over 7,600 employees signed a letter asking Amazon how it planned to respond to climate change…
        https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/20/tech/amazon-climate-strike-global-tech/index.html

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          Greg in NZ

          Little old Aotearoa / NZ may be light years ahead of the rest of the world – OK, maybe a day ahead of everyone – yet at times I’m happy we’re still lagging behind the madding crowd: as the strike4climate (kool spaling aye?) facepuke page states, Kiwi kids are pulling a sickie next Friday the 27th. So much for acting together in unison for the common good huh?

          I know I promised I’d never link to Stuff‘d again but hey, just for the headline below:

          https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/115871974/climate-change-strike-auckland-uni-the-only-nz-university-not-to-back-action

          “The University of Auckland will not support next week’s strike against climate change – the only university in the country to refuse. Senior management said it would not be ‘appropriate’ for the university to support the action”. Congratulations! However, “Fourth-year commerce student Ciara Moynihan called the university’s stance a ‘cop out’, saying… the university should act as a role model”.

          Calling Clara, come in Clara, helloo… it is being a role model, which is completely different to a climate model. Commerce? Pfft!!!

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  • #
    Zane

    Most local councils and State governments, as well as universities and places of higher educayshun, are infested by leftists. It is where second-raters generally end up, and it is surprising how much power they then control.

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    • #
      David Maddison

      Yes it is a consequence of Rudi Dutschke’s “long march through the institutions” which started in the 1960′s and is basically complete now.

      20

  • #
    Zane

    Market leading German wind turbine maker Enercon Gmbh is aptly named: Energy Con. Which is what wind is. Either too much or not enough, there is nothing Goldilocks about using windmills to generate power. Expensive, deadly, and useless.

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  • #
    pat

    a bit of fun:

    21 Sept: WashingtonFreeBeacon: Dems Cook 10,500 Steaks While Lecturing Americans About Eating Less Meat
    by Cameron Cawthorne
    Several Democratic presidential candidates will be attending an annual steak fry event, despite lecturing Americans about the need to eat less meat because of climate change.
    The organizers of the Iowa Polk County Democratic Party’s annual steak fry will be grilling 10,500 steaks and 1,000 vegan burgers on 10 grills, during Saturday’s event. Some of the candidates will grill steaks themselves…
    https://freebeacon.com/politics/dems-cook-10500-steaks-while-lecturing-americans-about-eating-less-meat/

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  • #
    pat

    behind paywall:

    20 Sept: UK Telegraph: Our children deserve better than Extinction Rebellion’s dangerous fantasies. Sadly their teachers are encouraging them
    by Madeline Grant
    Teachers should not be regurgitating XR’s doomsday narrative to fearful youngsters
    One of the strangest anomalies in our already bizarre politics has been the implosion of the established order. Unexpected coalitions are emerging from the Brexit realignment. Rock stars and “edgy” comedians now stand shoulder to shoulder with Goldman Sachs executives and Tony Blair. The Conservative Party – the spiritual home of agas, doilies, golf clubs and quiche – finds itself in opposition to Parliament and other ‘august’ British institutions. And today came the alarming sight of teachers and parents encouraging their charges to skive off school to join the latest round of Extinction Rebellion protests…
    558 COMMENTS (AVAILABLE)
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/09/20/children-deserve-better-extinction-rebellions-dangerous-fantasies/

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    Another Ian

    “jim2 says:
    21 September 2019 at 2:22 am

    We need to clue in the millennials that socialism and communism were created by old white men.”

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2019/09/14/w-o-o-d-14-september-2019/#comment-117130

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    • #
      Greg in NZ

      Not sure if the self-appointed financial trustees of the self-chosen tribe would classify themselves as white. Superior, yes; above everyone else, yes; but not common garden-variety white folk like us. As for Hunter Biden – Slow Joe’s boy – now he be white! Albeit small fried white.

      https://babylonbee.com/news/group-of-third-graders-to-dictate-nations-climate-change-policy

      “‘It’s incredibly brave for these kids to volunteer to take over our government’s climate change policies,’ said Schatz… The kids will also be asked to make policies on bedtime, homework, and candy”. What could possibly go wrong…

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    pat

    happy to go along with organisers’ tallies for the protest numbers, but can’t wait to expose this outrage! other MSM have this too:

    22 Sept: SBS: The viral photo of Sydney climate strike aftermath is a fake
    A fake viral photo posted on social media showing rubbish left after the climate strike in Sydney has been deleted.
    Updated Updated 5 hours ago
    By Lydia Feng
    https://www.sbs.com.au/news/the-viral-photo-of-sydney-climate-strike-aftermath-is-a-fake

    20 Sept: Deutsche Welle: Global climate strike in pictures (11 – no crowds shown): Leading the way
    23:35 Thousands took to the streets in Brazil, many taking aim at President Jair Bolsonaro…

    16:16 British opposition leader Jeremy Corbyn has criticized Donald Trump in an address to protesters near parliament in London…

    TWEET: Bill McKibben: The estimate is at least 70,000 on #ClimateStrike in beautiful Cologne, Germany…

    13:32 Protest organizers in Germany estimated a turnout of more than 1.4 million people nationwide, with more than 200,000 in Berlin, although authorities counted about half that number…

    TWEET: Leonie Hammerstein, Political correspondent & reporter, Deutsche Welle
    According to the organisers, 80,000 people have come to the #FridaysforFuture #ClimateStrike here in Berlin.
    https://www.dw.com/en/fridays-for-future-global-climate-strike-live-updates/a-50505537

    who would believe anything McKibben says?

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the total number of protesters worldwide was well under one million. never mind.

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    • #
      pat

      DW: TWEET: Bill McKibben: The estimate is at least 70,000 on #ClimateStrike in beautiful Cologne, Germany…

      suddenly realised 350.org, who claim to be the organisers, would be spreading all the fake news about numbers:

      TWEET: 350.org Europe
      Beautiful scenes from Cologne, Germany, where 70,000 people are reported to have shown up for climate justice.
      #ClimateStrike
      LINK TWEET Anett Selle, Freie Journalistin | Autorin @tazgezwitscher | @DieZeit @Welt @Tagesspiegel @ZDF u.a
      Abschlusskundgebung beim #Klimastreik in Köln. 20.000 waren erwartet, eben die Durchsage: 70.000 Menschen laut Veranstalter*innen.
      @tazgezwitscher #ClimateStrike
      VIDEO 10sec
      https://twitter.com/350Europe/status/1175031562552954886

      the above video is totally ridiculous. wouldn’t know where or when it was filmed. 500-1,000 people?

      here is Selle’s exact same tweet on her own twitter feed but, the video – for me – appears briefly, then disappears:

      TWEET Anett Selle, Freie Journalistin | Autorin @tazgezwitscher | @DieZeit @Welt @Tagesspiegel
      Abschlusskundgebung beim #Klimastreik in Köln. 20.000 waren erwartet, eben die Durchsage: 70.000 Menschen laut Veranstalter*innen.
      VIDEO REMOVED
      https://twitter.com/anettselle/status/1175029979211542529

      another pic of Cologne protest – a thousand?

      TWEET Anett Selle
      Köln 11:08 Uhr: Das Ende der Menge, irgendwo weiter hinten im Bild, ist nicht zu sehen. #Klimastreik #ClimateStrike @tazgezwitscher
      PIC
      https://twitter.com/anettselle/status/1174974382843629573

      anyway, plenty of interference being run out of this twitter feed:

      Twitter: 350.org Europe
      https://twitter.com/350Europe

      the FakeNewsMSM should be called on to produce EVIDENCE MILLIONS MARCHED.

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        pat

        plenty of craziness on here, naturally:

        Twitter: Bill McKibben, 350.org
        https://twitter.com/billmckibben

        19 Sept: WaPo Religion: ‘The dominant theological issue’: Environmentalist Bill McKibben wants your pastor at the global climate strike
        By Whitney Bauck
        (Whitney Bauck is an associate editor at Fashionista.com, where she reports on the environmental and human rights impacts of the fashion industry. She also occasionally writes about monks who knit and celebrity pastors with expensive taste. Find her on most social media platforms as @unwrinkling)

        In the United States, where a climate change denier made his way to the White House partly on the strength of his appeal to white evangelical voters, many see Christianity and climate science as opposing forces.
        But Bill McKibben, one of the nation’s most important environmental activists, is a walking rebuke of that notion.

        Raised on a steady diet of C.S. Lewis and teachings from the Presbyterian and Congregationalist churches, McKibben volunteers to teach Sunday school at the Methodist church in Vermont he attends now…
        Now he expects people of faith to join protests like the climate strike happening around the world on Friday, which he sees as a movement-building moment with the potential to shift the zeitgeist…

        “It’s been wonderful to watch that happen,” McKibben said. “Ministers [are] out front in their collars, making it clear what a moral issue this is. … This is the dominant scientific and economic issue of our century. It’s also the dominant theological issue.” …READ ON
        https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2019/09/19/dominant-theological-issue-environmentalist-bill-mckibben-wants-your-pastor-global-climate-strike/

        fun video of Hanson on The Greg Gutfeld Show – didn’t note the duration:

        VIDEO: 20 Sept: Fox News Op-ed: Trump wages war on progressive culture – Dems respond with Trump Derangement Syndrome
        by Victor Davis Hanson
        President Trump is waging a nonstop, all-encompassing war against progressive culture, in magnitude analogous to what 19th-century Germans once called a “Kulturkampf.”
        In 2016 and early 2017, President Barack Obama’s appointees in the FBI, CIA and Department of Justice tried to subvert the Trump campaign, interfere with his transition and, ultimately, abort his presidency. Now, congressional Democrats promise impeachment before the 2020 election…

        To make things worse for his critics, Trump’s economy is booming as never before in the new 21st century: near-record-low unemployment, a record number of Americans working, increases in workers’ wages and family incomes, low interest rates, low inflation, steady GDP growth and a strong stock market.
        Yet the real source of Trump Derangement Syndrome is his desire to wage a multifront pushback — politically, socially, economically and culturally — against what might be called the elite postmodern progressive world…

        The European Union, not the U.S. Constitution, is seen as the preferable model to run a nation. Transnational and global organizations are wiser on environmental and diplomatic matters than is the U.S. government…
        A new America supposedly is marching forward under the banner of ending fossil fuels…
        Trump variously goes after antifa, political correctness on campus, the NATO hierarchy, the radical green movement, Planned Parenthood, American universities and, above all, the media — especially CNN, The Washington Post and The New York Times…

        Trump has so enraged his Democratic adversaries that the candidates to replace him have moved farther to the left than any primary field in memory. They loathe Trump, but in their abject hatred he has goaded the various Democratic candidates into revealing their support for the crazy Green New Deal, reparations for slavery, relaxed immigration policies and trillions of dollars in new free stuff.

        In a way, the left-wing Democratic presidential candidates understand Trump best. If he wins his one-man crusade to stop the progressive project, they are finished, and their own party will make the necessary adjustments and then sheepishly drift back toward the center.
        https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/victor-davis-hanson-trumps-culture-war

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    pat

    no sign of the 100,000 in London in the BBC video; no pics or videos showing large numbers found online:

    VIDEO: 1min10sec: 20 Sept: BBC: Climate strike: Thousands protest across UK
    ***Organisers estimated that around 100,000 people attended a rally in central London, while more than 20,000 were thought to have marched in Edinburgh and 10,000 in Brighton…

    Referring to President Donald Trump, Mr Corbyn said it was “disgraceful when you get a president of a major country like the US” who says they will walk away (from Paris)…
    Some trade unions, including the TUC, the University and College Union and Unite, are supporting members who take part in the “strikes”…
    London Mayor Sadiq Khan, Green Party MP Caroline Lucas and Liberal Democrat leader Jo Swinson all supported the walkout for the Youth Strike 4 Climate campaign…
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-49767327

    VIDEO – ABOUT A THIRD OF THE WAY DOWN – SHOWS UNDER 10,000 (MAX) AND MOSTLY ADULTS!!!

    21 Sept: Daily Mail: First Global Climate Strike arrests in London as teachers encourage pupils to take to the streets and join mass protest inspired by eco-activist Greta Thunberg
    By Alexander Robertson and Martin Robinson
    VIDEO: 1min06sec: People gather in Westminster to take part in climate change protest
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7485615/First-Global-Climate-Strike-arrests-London-teachers-encourage-pupils-streets.html

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    • #
      AndyG55

      “Mr Corbyn said it was… blah, blah… ”

      It is disgraceful and irrelevant when a crazed loony-left wanabee dictator complains about the President of the most powerful nation in the world doing what he was elected to do.

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      Another Ian

      Pat

      Remember the Pyric phalanx?

      10

  • #
    Another Ian

    For film watchers to test

    “Watch: Jerome Hudson Calls Out the Left’s Climate Hypocrisy, Gun Control Hysteria on ‘Waters World’ ”

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/09/21/jerome-hudson-addresses-lefts-climate-hypocrisy-gun-control-hysteria-on-waters-world/

    20

  • #
    Another Ian

    For the Holden fans

    “GM (Government Motors) Announces Next Bankruptcy Date (All Electric Plan)”

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2019/09/22/gm-government-motors-announces-next-bankruptcy-date-all-electric-plan/#comments

    20

    • #
      Hanrahan

      If GMH had faith they could have used AU as manufacturing centre for all the markets where there is no money for EVs dotted along the highway . Sth Africa springs to mind. They liked the Commode.

      20

  • #
    Hanrahan

    I’m still giggling about Lewandowski’s evidence to Congress. Highlight of the week in US politics. :D

    30

  • #
    JS

    The people at JCU are appealing so Peter Ridd needs your support once more – Peter Ridd Legal Fund.

    50

    • #
      Antoine D'Arche

      yes I just saw this and donated.
      We have to get him there.
      But Dan Tehan MUST man up and put a stop to it.
      Does ANYONE know someone who knows him and make sure he understands how we feel?

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  • #
    el gordo

    Green tape stops decentralisation.

    http://www.warwickhughes.com/blog/?p=6306

    20

  • #
    • #
      Greg in NZ

      “the most striking feature of the record is the short eight year decline in streamflow from the highest value… in 1871 to the lowest value [1879]“.

      One of the Dalai Lamas imported electrical generators and two cars – stripped down to parts and yakked over the hill from India to be rebuilt in Lhasa – but that was back in the 1930s so they couldn’t be the fault of climate change back in the 1870s. Hmmm, surely monsoons didn’t fluctuate way back then when CO₂ was perfect dangerously low. Wonder what it could be…

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  • #
    Ian Wilson

    Meanwhile, back at the ranch:

    It looks as though the warm waters of the Western Pacific ocean may be responding to a drop in the equatorial trade winds that started about 10 days ago.

    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mlUuzmXNxuc/XYdZ3muqjxI/AAAAAAAABy0/frHwsjczOEA47XIHxXDXfs_FxK7P9ZZrQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/The_Battle.jpg

    Taking bets for a possible start to an El Nino event.

    It would interesting to know what is happening to the subsurface water temperature anomalies in the western half of the Pacific Ocean!

    We might know one way or the other when the next MJO emerges to the north of Papua New Guinea in early October!

    40

    • #
      el gordo

      Can we agree its not a Modoki?

      My money is on a back to back La Nina starting in December 2020, I would like your technical input on that possibility?

      30

      • #
        Ian Wilson

        el gordo,

        The next MJO is just starting to fire-up off the east coast of Africa. It will not get Western Pacific until the first week in October at the earliest. It won’t be until the second week of October before it launches a Kelvin wave across the Equatorial Pacific. If it is anything like the last one, I believe that it will kick off an El Nino event.
        [N.B. My prediction was for a moderate to strong El Nino starting in the second half of 2019 – with July being the most likely date – Obviously, my best prognostication was not true, however, I am still holding out till the end of the year.

        I will reserve my judgment on the possibility of El Nino until mid-to-late October.

        My prediction for a La Nina in sometime late in 2020 or early 2021. The last period of strong La Nina activity was 2010-2011. Add 11.1 years and you get 2021 (+/- 1 year)at the earliest.

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  • #
    Hanrahan

    For F1 fans, Lecerc must be living rent free in Vettel’s head. I’m enjoying that.

    20

  • #
    Hanrahan

    For F1 fans, Lecerc must be living rent free in Vettel’s head. I’m enjoying that.

    10

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Adapted from faceache .

    Climatologist -

    One who does precision guess work based on unreliable data provided by those of questionable knowledge.

    Or should it be the other way round ?i

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    pat

    have been looking for this for a couple of days:

    7 Green activists campaign helps kill Bylong Valley coal mine
    Daily Telegraph – 20 Sept 2019
    Of 3192 comments to the Independent Planning Commission, 2530 objections came on a standard-form letter from Lane Cove Coal and Gas Watch…

    21 Sept: Daily Mail: REVEALED: New coal mine that would have provided 1,100 jobs to hard-pressed families is scrapped after green activists from Sydney’s north shore sent 2,530 objection letters
    •The multi-million-dollar Bylong Valley coal mine was to generate $300 million
    •City-based residents sent thousands of objection notes from over 250km away
    •The project was put on hold by an independent planning commission last year
    By Charlotte Karp
    The construction of a controversial coal mine has been blocked after planners received a series of objection letters from city-based environmental activists…
    But today it was revealed the project’s demise came after a spate of complaints by residents of Sydney’s northern beaches, 250 kilometres away from the proposed mine site…

    Out of 3,193 comments to the commission, 2,530 objections came from Lane Cove Coal and Gas Watch, The Daily Telegraph reported.
    ‘These people should not be allowed to comment on something that is not on their doorstep,’ Mid-West Regional Council mayor Des Kennedy said.
    ‘People here want those jobs, but at the public meetings they were bussing in activists from all over the place.’…

    Lane Cove Bushland and Conservation Society vice-president Ron Gornall said the environmental group maintain their objections.
    ‘Our group was opposed to the mine … like a lot of environmental groups, we look at other areas,’ he said.
    None of the 14 government agencies consulted objected to the construction of the mine…
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7486413/Bylong-Valley-coal-provided-1-100-jobs-blocked-environmentalists.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&ito=1490

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      pat

      Rob Gornall, Vice-President of Lane Cove Bushland and Conservation Society (subcommittee Lane Cove Coal and Gas Watch) may have a point, but he’s a NIMBY man nonetheless, even tho, in case of Bylong, it’s not his backyard:

      18 May 2018: SMH: The parts of Sydney with the most development – and those with the least
      By Andrew Taylor & Nigel Gladstone
      ***Ron Gornall’s story of suburban woe should not surprise anyone living in Sydney.
      His quiet, tree-lined street in Lane Cove has been turned into a noisy, traffic-choked rat run since two apartment buildings, each eight storeys high, were built opposite his home…
      Yet Gornall may not know the half of it. He lives in Sydney’s north shore, part of what Awais Piracha, associate professor of urban planning at Western Sydney University, calls “NIMBY land” and which is an area that has hosted less development than those in the west and south-west of Sydney…

      Gornall says his street was often choked with parked cars and traffic. This is partly due to Lane Cove’s 2593 new homes built in the past five years.
      “There’s the constant sound of babies when people are at home and dogs barking on cold, lonely balconies when people aren’t there,” he says…
      https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/the-parts-of-sydney-with-the-most-development-and-those-with-the-least-20180518-p4zg1y.html

      Shauna Forrest is listed as President of the Lane Cove Bushland and Conservation Society on their website.

      Lane Cove Bushland and Conservation Society: Executive Positions 2018 – 2019
      President: Shauna Forrest
      Vice-President: Ron Gornall
      http://lanecovebushland.org.au/contact/

      this is a bit old, but worth noting:

      Trove: Forrest, Shauna
      Shauna Forrest is a longstanding environmentalist and member of the Australian Greens Party. She was their electoral candidate in the New South Wales Legislative Assembly for Lane Cove in 2003 and for the Lane Cove Municipal Council in 2004.
      At the time of her campaign, Shauna Forrest had lived in the Lane Cove area for 22 years and was well known in environment protection groups for her work as publicity officer of the Lane Cove Bushland and Conservation Society…
      https://trove.nla.gov.au/people/694057?c=people

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        pat

        18 Sept: Facebook Events: Shakespeare Hotel
        Time 2 Celebrate! Bylong Saved From Mining :)
        Public · Hosted by Lock The Gate Alliance and 3 others
        BREAKING: Absolute incredible news! The planned coal mine for the Bylong Valley in NSW has just been refused. The NSW planning commission said the impacts on groundwater, agricultural land and the magnificent heritage icon of Tarwyn Park would be too great.
        Come celebrate this 5 year long campaign with family and friends :)
        Featuring:
        Lock The Gate Alliance
        Climate Action Sydney Eastern Suburbs
        Lane Cove Coal and Gas Watch
        Sydney Knitting Nannas And Friends
        https://www.facebook.com/events/shakespeare-hotel/time-2-celebrate-bylong-saved-from-mining-/392483258317503/

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          pat

          perhaps the Lane Cove lot & friends would like to protest this “wind farm”. it shouldn’t matter that it is in the US:

          21 Sept: BendBulletinOregon: Hoary bat numbers decline amid wind turbine expansion
          Bats are facing multiple threats in the Pacific Northwest as both white-nose syndrome and wind turbines are threatening to decimate their population numbers, according to a study by Oregon State University-Cascades.
          The hoary bat – which does not hibernate but instead migrates south for the winter – faces an uncertain future because its numbers have declined at a rate of 2% per year, according to Tom Rodhouse, one of the authors of the study.

          The cause of the hoary bat decline is believed to be the wind turbines on industrial wind farms, a growing phenomenon in Oregon and Washington state.
          Oregon and Washington combined have 3,600 wind turbines with 6,300 megawatts of installed generating capacity…
          While collisions with the propellers on wind farms cause many of the deaths, barotrauma is another problem.

          Barotrauma can occur when bats fly through low pressure zones created by the spinning blades of a wind turbine. The sudden change in pressure causes their lungs to expand faster than the bats can exhale, resulting in burst vessels that fill their tiny lungs with blood, said Rodhouse, an ecologist with the National Park Service and a courtesy faculty member at OSU-Cascades. Courtesy faculty members serve on the faculty but are not paid by the university.
          “This and direct collisions with the turbines has resulted in millions of bat deaths over the last two decades,” said Rodhouse…

          The report on declining bat numbers was published in Ecology and Evolution, a biweekly open-access scientific journal. Scientists from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Montana State University, Willamette National Forest and the U.S. Geological Survey helped to co-author the paper. Bat population surveys were conducted between 2003 and 2010 and again from 2016 to 2018…

          “There has been a fairly substantial drop in hoary bat population already, and there are fewer numbers returning from their migration. I’m concerned that if the trend persists at this rate, then there is a real risk of extinction,” said Rodhouse.
          https://www.bendbulletin.com/localstate/7435170-151/hoary-bat-numbers-decline-amid-wind-turbine-expansion

          40

    • #
      Greg in NZ

      Action from a [safe & privileged] distance eh?

      “Pita Taufatofua, an Olympic athlete from Tonga who lives in Australia, broke down in tears describing how his Pacific island homeland had seen half of its buildings destroyed by a powerful cyclone while he competed in skiing at the 2018 Winter Olympics in South Korea”.

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/399350/young-climate-activists-seek-step-up-from-streets-to-political-table

      “If 50 percent of New York disappeared, people would act,” he said. But – when NY didn’t disappear, people simply lied and made up a new magical doomsday date. If we’re not careful, we’ll be soon drowning from all these actors crying…

      50

      • #
        beowulf

        I’m surprised he didn’t point out that all the snow where he learned to ski in Tonga has melted. He’s a poor climate refugee.

        30

  • #

    The climate catastrophism came into prominence as a result of the UN setting up the IPCC.

    The First Assessment Report of the UN IPCC, 1991, stated, page xi:
    “Executive Summary
    We are certain of the following:
    there is a natural greenhouse effect …..”

    At page xiii, it states:
    “ One of the most important factors is the greenhouse effect, a simplified explanation of which is as follows Short-wave solar radiation can pass through the clear atmosphere relatively unimpeded But long-wave terrestrial radiation emitted by the warm surface of the Earth is partially absorbed and then re-emitted by a number of trace gases in the cooler atmosphere above”

    This statement is highly deceptive and grossly misleading yet it is all that we get from the ‘scientists’. The fact is that 51% of the Sun’s radiation is in the long-wavelength, infrared part of the spectrum as is all of the Earth’s emitted radiation. On arrival at the Earth’s distance from the Sun, the rate of incoming infrared energy is more than twice that of the emitted radiation from the Earth’s surface.

    Consequently, if there was a Greenhouse Effect, the Earth would have been getting colder as the concentration of greenhouse gases increased due to the back-radiation of part of the incoming Sun’s energy out into space.

    This basic fact does not appear in the web site for the Federal Department of Environment, nor the Bureau of Meteorology, CSIRO, Australian Academy of Science or NASA, namely, that there is no Greenhouse Effect except inside a greenhouse.

    How is it that scientific bodies around the globe have promoted a lie?

    For supporting mathematical analysis of climate data see:
    https://www.climateauditor.com

    40

  • #
    bobn

    I see JC University is appealing the court judgement against them and wasting more Australian tax dollars. australian politicians appear complicit in scamming aussie citizens rather than controlling the lunatics running this Govt funded University. We need to fund Peter Ridd some more to fight for science to triumph over fantasy and University fascists.
    Here’s peter’s statement .
    https://www.gofundme.com/f/peter-ridd-legal-action-fund?viewupdates=1&rcid=r01-156914784148-0a0f2272c4d5470e&utm_medium=email&utm_source=customer&utm_campaign=p_email%2B1137-update-supporters-v5b

    50

    • #
      TdeF

      Just donated.

      I do not agree with this approach and said so when I met him and would seek a political solution but he has succeeded so far and he is determined to get justice through the legal system.

      My hope is that he and his family can get through this incredibly slow and devastating punishment inflicted unfairly by the University Vice Chancellor, senior staff and his professional enemies while they remain untouched by it and can get on with their lives. It is the punishment of Galileo, house arrest and endless stress.

      In my experience, I have never seen this succeed but so far he has done very well, with our support and he must be made of steel. Without this his life would be ruined. Now at least he has a fair settlement but individuals at the university want him destroyed, punished, removed from the public eye. Like Becket, who will rid me of this troublesome physicist? But if Peter can take it, I will support him as do so many who believe this is wrong. Where is the Education Union? Where is the Staff Union? Where are the politicians? Or do they all push Climate Change too?

      Regardless, after a damning judgement against the university, it is an utter disgrace that the Vice Chancellor is continuing this utterly vindictive and personal attack on a senior member of staff. She is wrong in law and in the court of public opinion, James Cook University is being viewed as an aggressive business organization trying to hide the truth and protect its income at all costs, not its reputation for science.

      We the public are paying for both sides of this and for the unjustifiable millionaire salaries of University Vice Chancellors around the country. The board of JCU should have stopped this when the judge found his sacking illegal. Universities are state controlled but run on Federal funding. The Federal minister Dan Tehan who funds these universities should stop this travesty of science and justice. A phone call would stop this.

      90

      • #
        TdeF

        Besides, what do they want to achieve? Professor Ridd has been fired. His career is ended. The judgement was only what he was owed anyway in the circumstances and the perpetrators of this illegal act were not punished at all. They wasted a million dollars of our money and put Peter through hell. Now they want to double down to get what? He is owed the money.

        There is no point to this ongoing persecution except vindictiveness, or perhaps they want to shut him up. That’s the only thing which makes sense, the realisation that they can no longer silence him because you can only fire him once. Now he is not bound by their imaginary rules of collegiate behaviour and they cannot threaten him any more. The truth will out. That’s what they have to obtain, a deal where he promises keeps quiet or he puts hundreds of millions of reef dollars in jeopardy . This is disgraceful conduct, as well as improper and probably illegal. Who in the government is watching over this?

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    • #
      RicDre

      I also donated. I live in the US but I believe that academics like Dr. Ridd need to be supported wherever they are. If JCU can get away with silencing academics they disagree with it will only embolden other universities, including those in the US, to do the same.

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    • #

      At Chiefio’s Blog: Private college closures in the US have risen at rate of 11 per year. Moody Report Jul 2018. https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2019/09/22/woke-broke-colleges-its-a-trend/ Listen up JCU!

      00

  • #
    Lance

    Latest from Tony Heller.

    “My Gift to Climate Alarmists”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8455KEDitpU

    Well worth the time to view.

    50

  • #
    ren

    Presented here is a simple and reliable method of accurately calculating the average near surface atmospheric temperature on all planetary bodies which possess a surface atmospheric pressure of over 0.69kPa, by the use of the molar mass version of the ideal gas law. This method requires a gas constant and the near-surface averages of only three gas parameters; the atmospheric pressure, the atmospheric density and the mean molar mass. The accuracy of this method proves that all information on the effective plus the residual near-surface atmospheric temperature on planetary bodies with thick atmospheres, is automatically ‘baked-in’ to the three mentioned gas parameters. It is also known that whenever an atmospheric pressure exceeds 10kPa, convection and other modes of energy transfer will totally dominate over radiative interactions in the transfer of energy, and that a rising thermal gradient always forms from that level. This rising thermal gradient continues down to the surface, and even below it if there is a depression or a mine-shaft present. This measured thermodynamic situation, coupled with other empirical science presented herein, mean that it is very likely that no one gas has an anomalous effect on atmospheric temperatures that is significantly more than any other gas. In short; there is unlikely to be any significant net warming from the greenhouse effect on any planetary body in the parts of atmospheres which are >10kPa. Instead, it is proposed that the residual temperature difference between the effective temperature and the measured near-surface temperature, is a thermal enhancement caused by gravitationally-induced adiabatic auto-compression, powered by convection. A new null hypothesis of global warming or climate change is therefore proposed and argued for; one which does not include any anomalous or net warming from greenhouse gases in the tropospheric atmospheres of any planetary body.
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/324599511_Thermal_Enhancement_on_Planetary_Bodies_and_the_Relevance_of_the_Molar_Mass_Version_of_the_Ideal_Gas_Law_to_the_Null_Hypothesis_of_Climate_Change

    21

  • #
    David Wojick

    Ban skepticism from classrooms!

    “Climate change: A hands-on guide for educators”

    https://ei-ie.org/en/detail/16345/climate-change-a-hands-on-guide-for-educators

    “Educators are determined to make their classrooms free of climate change denial, to provide their students with the facts so that they understand and are able to navigate a far-reaching crisis that will inevitably affect their lives. The first step in this direction was taken today, with the publication of a new Education International guide to help teachers equip themselves with the information and tools they need in the classroom and beyond. The publication offers factual information on the climate crisis and suggests possibilities of action, notably in advocacy on the international and national level. It is a practical tool that will help any educator level up their knowledge on this pressing issue and take the lead in their school and communities.”

    “Educators are determined to make their classrooms free of climate change denial…”

    This is indoctrination, not education.

    From Education International which claims to cover 32 million students.

    My project:
    https://www.gofundme.com/f/climate-change-debate-education

    60

    • #
      Greg in NZ

      “The publication offers factual information on the climate crisis and suggests possibilities of action, notably in advocacy on the international and national level”.

      That sentence alone should be enough to alert caregivers parents to the real danger their children’s children are in. Something evil cometh this way. Gofundme? Go away.

      00

      • #
        Greg in NZ

        Oops David, thought the GFMe project was referring to the miss-educators not you. Humble forgiveness (tugging forelock in most-high respect) I am still recovering from my own indoctrination…

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    RicDre

    BBC Veteran: ‘Kremlin’ Style ‘BBC Thought Police’ Want to ‘Mould’ UK In Liberal-Left’s Image

    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/09/22/bbc-veteran-kremlin-style-bbc-thought-police-want-to-mould-uk-in-liberal-lefts-image/

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  • #
    Another Ian

    “Watch Climate Activists Try To Explain Why They Use Products Made From Fossil Fuels”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/09/22/watch-climate-activists-try-to-explain-why-they-use-products-made-from-fossil-fuels/

    30

    • #
      PeterS

      So they admit they want to go back to the dark ages, such as the days when wooden ships driven by sails were used to other countries. That’s a classic case of insanity. Intelligent people know that moving away from fossil fuels on a large scale would destroy civilisation and millions if not billions of people would die. Is that what these lunatics want? Apparently yes. Yet we have leaders in politics and business who have policies and agend as aligned with these lunatics. No wonder we will very likely crash and burn.

      10

    • #
      Hanrahan

      Crossing the Atlantic by liner [would that take 6 days] would be more carbon intense than doing so in a jet. Maybe those in “steerage” could make a claim but nobody else.

      00

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    Another Ian

    Payback

    “Woke Broke Colleges – It’s A Trend”

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2019/09/22/woke-broke-colleges-its-a-trend/

    I wonder if JCU will read this?

    20

    • #

      Didn’t see yr link, Ian. I’ve posted it too. A wake up to woke, sadly it’s slow coming in the great southern land. Important that Peter Ridd wins any JCU appeal for censoring open enquiry.

      00

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      Hanrahan

      This is a popular topic of Dr Steve Turley. Here’s one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2W-mEg7C_ao

      He also makes the point that Christian/conservatives are still having families whilst the woke are aborting millions of their babies every year. The difference is demographically significant. I think I’ve read that 50 million black babies have been aborted since Roe V Wade. Anywhere else this would be called genoc!de.

      10

  • #
    Another Ian

    Some EV calculations

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2019/09/22/gm-government-motors-announces-next-bankruptcy-date-all-electric-plan/#comment-117181

    Will That new Holden have an optional pedal set for crossing the Nullabour?

    10

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      Pity we don’t have high speed rail.

      12

      • #
        RicDre

        “Pity we don’t have high speed rail.”

        Where do you think would be the best locations in Australia for high-speed rail and assuming it is electric powered, how do you think the electricity should be generated to power it?

        50

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          All capitals, starting with Syd, Melb, Bris

          13

          • #

            And the second part of the question?

            Tony.

            40

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              Diesel
              Cummings makes the 750-hp QSK19, with projected speeds of up to 210 kmh, similar to the The InterCity 125 (where 125 is the speed in MPH) . Note these British units entered service in the late 1970′s, so for reliability and ROI they would be hard to beat.

              21

              • #
                RicDre

                Diesel??? Would the Greens approve of that?

                If that is they way you want to go, you can probably get some used ones cheap from the UK as I understand they are replacing their intercity 125 trains with Azuma electric trains.

                Actually the Azuma might be a better fit in Australia as I understand the Azuma trains have a back-up Diesel/Electric genset which would be useful if the Australian power grid gets a little shaky.

                30

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Ric we do not have a large amount of electrified rail, so diesel is the best option. My point is that it would also be the lowest carbon emitter per passenger, than bus, plane or car

                11

              • #
                AndyG55

                Rick:

                The Class 800s have the ability to work from overhead electricity or diesel generator.

                Either way, they need RELIABLITY, which renewables cannot provide.

                PF:

                WRONG again. The CO2 cost of the build would be HUGE, and would take many decades to recoup, even if CO2 was a problem, which as you well know, it is not.

                11

              • #
                AndyG55

                Poor PF, dumb as an ox

                Our XPT is built from HST designs.

                Hows’ that working out.

                Why do you always base all your arguments around basic ignorance?

                12

              • #
                RicDre

                “we do not have a large amount of electrified rail”

                That could be added to existing track (I believe this is what they are doing in the UK) or be a part of laying new track unless the concern is that the Australian power grid may not be up to the task of driving the trains, though if that is the case, the Hybrid/Electric Azuma trains would be the way to go.

                “My point is that it would also be the lowest carbon emitter per passenger, than bus, plane or car”

                The diesel engine manufactures have indeed made great strides in removing the carbon soot from the diesel engine’s exhaust so I agree, very little carbon would be emitted per passenger.

                00

              • #
                RicDre

                AndyG55: “Rick: The Class 800s have the ability to work from overhead electricity or diesel generator.”

                Yes, I understand that, though I must admit that my answer to PF was not clear on that point. Thanks for clearing that up.

                00

              • #
                Hanrahan

                Queensland’s Premier Joh electrified the rail from the Bowen Basin coal fields to the Hay Pt shipping port and south to Brisbane. All the labor governments since have not added one mile more.

                00

              • #
                el gordo

                We need a continental bullet train network because of the need for decentralisation, satellite cities, Ord River water and new Hele coal fired power stations to run the whole shebang.

                As CO2 doesn’t cause global warming, why don’t you come on board the bread and circuses extravaganza?

                01

          • #
            AndyG55

            Again, PF is driven by random ideas without any actual thought process.

            12

      • #
        robert rosicka

        Yeah to Tasmania .

        20

      • #
        Hanrahan

        California is trying to build high speed rail from LA to SF, two large population centres. It is years late, billions over budget and unlikely to ever be completed.

        If HSR a good idea why isn’t there one from DC to NY, a very busy corridor?

        BTW China’s HSR is well engineered but run at a big loss.

        10

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          but don’t talk about europe, because they have lots of HSR, and it runs at a profit.

          The main problem here is that Tony, Andy etc, anc not accept that there is a well proven, commercially viable solution, that does not depend on coal.

          11

          • #
            AndyG55

            Population density, moron. !!

            And no, French trains rely on nuclear.

            NONE of them rely on solar or wind.

            22

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              See, you can not accept any solution that does not involve electricity. And if you are going to insult me, do it to my face, and don’t hide behind a fake name and a keyboard. People will think that you are simple

              21

              • #
                RicDre

                “The main problem here is that Tony, Andy etc, anc not accept that there is a well proven, commercially viable solution, that does not depend on coal.”

                I don’t know about the rest of the world, but here in the US most trains are either Diesel/Electric or straight electric. About the only places you see coal fired trains here in the US are in museums, amusement parks or National parks. I can accept that.

                20

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Ric in Australia coal = electricity so any electric solution is really a coal solution.

                21

              • #
                RicDre

                “Ric in Australia coal = electricity so any electric solution is really a coal solution.”

                But I thought Australia’s goal was to eliminate the coal=electric solution and replace it with the Solar/Wind/Water=electric solution. If that is where you are headed, why mess around with an interim diesel/electric solution?

                20

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                It would be less environmentally damaging to use Diesel in the way it is most useful, ie moving bulk on steel rails, than the massive build out required to 1) electrify the rail corridors, and 2) supply them with electricity. The renewables do have an environmental cost, as is well documented here, it is more a horses for courses situation

                20

              • #
                RicDre

                “It would be less environmentally damaging to use Diesel in the way it is most useful…”

                Those are good points.

                So the next question is where does Australia get the money to create this high-speed rail network? Is there some current expenditure that can be redirected for this use, perhaps some horse for the wrong course?

                20

              • #
                el gordo

                ‘So the next question is where does Australia get the money to create this high-speed rail network?’

                The China Infrastructure Bank would be happy to lend at a very reasonable rate.

                Lets first look at the possible tenders, Japanese consortiums want the Sydney-Newcastle- Wollongong run, while the Oz/US consortium planned the Sydney-Canberra-Melbourne line, but that may have collapsed.

                China wants to go through the Blue Mountains to the heart of the MDB and from there the world is their oyster.

                10

            • #
              Another Ian

              Maybe check on that European fast trains are profitable.

              IIRC some time back Coyote

              http://coyoteblog.com/

              and his son took a jaunt on the TGV and concluded “a very nice service with not many passengers”.

              Also when South Africa electrified their main lines they kept steam locos for shunting – apparently that is not one of electricity’s strong points

              00

          • #
            AndyG55

            “commercially viable solution”

            ALWAYS with the lies, PF

            You just make crap up before even looking, don’t you. !!

            https://skift.com/2018/03/05/frances-rail-system-is-falling-apart/

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          • #
            MudCrab

            No, don’t talk about Europe… Actually stet, let’s talk about Europe and rail.

            Things Europe has:

            - Existing rail infrastructure (with the important being the rail corridors and the massive middle of the city rail stations)
            - Population density
            - Relatively even population spread
            - Countries the size of tennis courts
            - High speed rail that runs at a loss

            Things Australia has:

            - token rail infrastructure
            - low population
            - Population concentration in the major cities
            - States the size of countries
            - interstate rail that has been forced to evolve into a luxury experience to remain competitive (I am informed that Adelaide to Darwin is $7000)

            Now having been and used rail in Europe I am a big fan. Leave hotel, walk two or three blocks, get on train, relax, look at window at the interesting landscape, arrive, get off train, walk two or three blocks to new hotel. Beats airports hands down.

            BUT, Australia is not Europe.

            Deal with it.

            11

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              Sydney Melbourne is either the 1st or 2nd busiest air route in the world. It is double the distance as Paris London, making it about 4 hours in total time, from city centre to city centre. So there is demand and we could do it. But no we won’t do it will we, because airlines would lose money .

              23

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                by train, i meant

                12

              • #
                AndyG55

                “making it about 4 hours in total time, from city centre to city centre”

                lol.. You really are in a fantasy world of your own, Aren’t you PF !!

                You really think a dedicated VFT would make money.

                So funny !

                And of course, the Greens would NEVER let it be built.

                All those little extinct species to worry about. ;-)

                01

        • #
          Another Ian

          H

          Re California HST

          IIRC that is from nowhere to nowhere and now stalled because the ridiculous cost became obvious even to the current governor (Dem IIRC)

          00

      • #

        Kinda’ Octopussy’s Garden stuff.
        … Oh how I’d like to see that
        a high-speed-rail, but not for you
        and me, in its carriages would be
        those passengers from Fantasy-Land,
        takin’ a journey to the stars and
        never returnin,’ so all of us
        plane ordinary cits could get on
        with livin’ in reality- that’s it.

        20

      • #

        I’m an enthusiast for fast trains, as for all forms of transport which run off grid power and don’t get in the way of road traffic. No need to run at a profit. The profit is in the efficiency of people and goods moving freely. The Posh Left think they can preach constantly about the mythical “market” because the “market” can so easily be rigged while “greedy” conservatives are nonetheless obliged to jump up and salute when the holy name of Market is uttered.

        It goes without saying that diesel would be a disastrous choice for coal rich Australia, and an odd choice for any new fast train customer. We really need laws against the misuse of critical resources which have to be imported from or through strategically dangerous zones. (Three little words: Strait of Hormuz.) And the stuff is a fossil fuel presently under keen attack from Big Green! Awesomely obtuse.

        I get that fast trains for Oz are a bit of a dream, especially since we haven’t coordinated with airport placement etc. Nonetheless, fast rail is something a prosperous country could afford if it didn’t squander billions on white elephants and green plunder while making itself as post-industrial as possible.

        But we do squander billions on white elephants and green plunder. Oh, how we squander. It’s really too bad.

        20

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          All our current oil production goes to Singapore, we could keep it here if we wanted. But no, just like gas, we give it away, and beggar ourselves.

          20

          • #

            Good. Keep it here to run trucks on roads.

            Resource reservation is fine by me…though a politician challenging the neo-liberal religion might find himself in a Grange Hermitage sting or choppergate scandal.

            But mainly, Pete, we need to do coal. Especially that marvelous Permian black, of which we have centuries of supply. No need to hack up prime ag land like a mob of third world desperates. Rich countries can afford to say no occasionally. Rich countries can afford conservation.

            Remember conservation?

            20

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              I heartily agree with you, mosomoso, not only is our oil, classed as light sweet (the low sulfur version), but the Permian black (which is mostly exported) is also low sulfur, low heavy metals.

              Whe should keep the best for us, and then export any surplus, we are not a colony anymore.

              21

              • #
                RicDre

                “Whe should keep the best for us…”

                I’m not Australian but that certainly makes sense to me.

                Does Australia have the refining capacity to handle the additional oil? If not, could it be built in the current political climate in Australia?

                20

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Small refineries, the larger ones were closed.

                11

              • #
                RicDre

                “Small refineries, the larger ones were closed.”

                That doesn’t sound good…If Australia kept more of its oil, do you think the larger refineries could be reopened or new refineries built given the current political climate in Australia?

                20

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Ric the lesson that Australia learnt after each world war was that it had to be self sufficient in all areas. That is why we had Steel, Refining, Airplanes, etc etc. Most of this was behind a trade barrier to ensure the survival of the local industry. Gradually this production capacity was sent offshore, rather than upgraded, which is a common enough story. However, if the geopolitical system changed a bit, we would be then at the mercy of long and vulnerable supply lines, which might just get the politicians to pull their collective heads out of their collective cloacas and do something.

                31

              • #
                AndyG55

                The Greens would NEVER allow the refineries to be re-built, would they PF.

                01

          • #
            Hanrahan

            Whose fault is that? The MUA has made coastal shipping prohibitively expensive and the CFMMEU has priced us out of the oil refining market.

            When Santos et al needed guaranteed sales contracts to raise the billions needed to build LNG trains domestic consumers didn’t sign up. They cannot complain now if they can’t get contracts, But again there are no receiving facilities in Syd/Mlb and no domestic shipping industry anyway. It is cheaper to ship LNG to Singapore and back than to ship it locally.

            Australia is still a union closed shop and they are more interested in feather-bedding existing members’ jobs than expanding their industries and their membership.

            10

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              15% of the workforce is unionised. All other countries manage to hold domestic reserves, but not us. For example, what is our reserve for fuel? Bashing the unions, or short sighted business is fun, but it is not the truth. Look to the Labor/LNP coalition to short change us, they have never failed yet

              10

            • #

              All too true. And what a pity. When I worked around Pyrmont I met numerous descendants of wharfies, now wharfies themselves. Their Supreme Being was a timekeeper.

              00

  • #
    David Maddison

    Leftists keep talking about massive species extinction in Australia but is this really true? A few species on very small islands have gone extinct because of introduced rats, some extinct organisms have been misidentified as separate species when they are in fact the same as non-extinct species, Aboriginals likely extincted the megafauna and beyond that, apart from the Tasmanian tiger (marsupial), there is very little that European settlers have caused to become extinct.

    40

    • #
      • #
        Peter C

        Not due to AGW then.

        Almost nothing extinct in the last 50 years.

        20

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          you do understand how the classification works?

          12

          • #
            AndyG55

            Wow,

            one Earthworm.. maybe?

            one bat on a small island, maybe?

            one rat on an even smaller island

            One slug.. maybe?

            …this century.

            And none had anything to do with basically non-existent “climate change™”

            Thanks for the confirmation, PF. ;-)

            Seems it is you that lacks understanding… as always. !

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            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              You do understand that the smallest populations and with their habitats most at risk will go extinct first? Were you expecting Kangaroos?

              12

              • #
                AndyG55

                Nothing to do with “climate change™”, is it PF

                That’s because, as you are well aware, human influence “climate change ” just isn’t happening.

                You have NOTHING except baseless innuendo.. always.

                11

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Who said anything about Climate Change, go back and read the original question, and then apologise.

                22

              • #
                AndyG55

                Great to see you agree that these minimal number of extinctions have NOTHING to do with climate change, PF

                Nothing much to blame on humans after the early 1900s.. right PF.

                Thanks for the confirmation.

                11

              • #
                AndyG55

                PF, I apologise for pointing out the stupidity of your statements.

                There, is that better ?

                12

      • #
        MudCrab

        Let us look at your ‘many more’ list from WikiPee shall we?

        24 birds, 17 of which are from Norfolk or Lord Howe Island. Among the others we have such gems as “This subspecies may be invalid. It is known from only two specimens of doubtful provenance” (Roper River scrub-robin), “…its status as a distinct subspecies is not universally accepted” (Tasmanian emu) and th Kangaroo Island Emu which went existing in 1827 due to hunting and human-started brush fires, an impressive set of occurrences considering South Australia was not founded until 1836 and Kangaroo Island had no Aboriginal settlement either.

        Oh the entire list there is one bird listed as 1996. The next most recent date on the entire list is 1932.

        Not convinced, Peter. I am not convinced about your definition of ‘many’ and within the context of ‘Climate Emergency’ (or whatever they are calling it this week) the list is absolute bollocks.

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        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          Listen, crustacean, the question posed by David was “there is very little that European settlers have caused to become extinct” Do you see anything about climate change? The link proves that many species were removed by Europeans. (and as Gee Aye rightly points out that is only the ones we have classified, many more, and particularly those without fur feathers or scales would have vanished before we got around to cataloguing them.

          Obviously you do not like the facts do you?

          12

          • #
            AndyG55

            “and particularly those without fur feathers or scales would have vanished “

            And you know this.. because you made it up, right PF !!

            Let’s not worry about actual evidence..

            You never have in the past.

            11

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              you really have gift, don’t you? You are like a small stupid angry version of Agatha Christie’s Capitan Hastings. Every you write is wrong. Now apologise, or are no not even man enough for that.

              21

              • #
                AndyG55

                Evidence free PF.. as always

                Don’t get too upset at your ineptitude, petal. !!

                01

              • #
                AndyG55

                Some things you are destined to live with all your life.

                So Sad.

                01

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                so no apology – I did not think you had the integrity, but I thought I would give you the chance. I’m hoping that you are happy in your sad angry stupid world

                11

              • #
                AndyG55

                I knew you wouldn’t apologise for your deceitful lying behaviour.

                I knew I had to do it for you.

                You should be thanking me.

                What part of MudCrab’s post was incorrect, PF?

                Or does it hurt you so bad to have the facts pointed out to you, time and time and time again.

                Link shows very few extinctions since the mid 1900′s and NONE attributable to so-called “climate change”.

                01

              • #
                AndyG55

                “without fur feathers or scales ”

                Where is your list of those “without fur feathers or scales ”

                Just make it up, PF, like you do everything else.

                01

              • #
                AndyG55

                “so no apology”

                I certainly did apologise..

                .. go to #64.1.1.1.4

                01

    • #
      Gee Aye

      what do you know about the animals without fur feathers or scales?

      14

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Cue air raid sirens it’s worse than we thought !

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-23/climate-change-accelerating-warn-scientists/11537240

    Melting sea ice raising sea levels ! We’re doomed .

    30

  • #
    Ian Wilson

    Jo,

    The following graph claims that we have 6 HELE coal-fired power stations but none planned for the future. Is that true?
    If it is true, we are going to be the economic basket-case of Asia in a decade or two, given that modern industry will
    avoid us like the plague because of our expensive power prices.

    https://watertechbyrie.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/hele-e1550170804379.jpg

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    • #

      Ian,

      there in fact six coal fired ….. UNITS (not plants) which can be classified as HELE in Australia, although that HELE term is a recent one.

      HELE consists of SuperCritical, UltraSuperCritical, (USC) and Advanced UltraSuperCritical technologies.

      This six Units are all of them SuperCritical, (one technology level below USC) and they are all located at four plants in Queensland, the 2 Unit plant at Millmerran, 2 of the 4 Units at the Callide Plant, and two single Unit plants at Tarong North and at Kogan Creek.

      Every other coal fired plant in Australia is SubCritical.

      Tony.

      80

  • #
    pat

    Gideon Rozner/IPA was on Sky’s “Front Page” last night. he mentioned how the Govt should have told JCU their funding was not meant to be used for vexatious litigation against an employee, etc. however, he said, the Govt had actually appointed the (Vice-Chancellor, from memory) to what I presume was the following:

    24 Dec 2018: Ministers for the Department of Education Media Centre: Improving university funding
    The Hon Dan Tehan MP. Minister for Education
    The Morrison Government will introduce performance-based funding for Australian universities to ensure they are focussed on providing quality teaching and supporting students to achieve the best possible graduate outcomes…
    The Morrison Government has appointed a panel of experts to provide advice on the design of the performance measures and the formula to be introduced from 2020, including: ETC
    The panel members are:

    Professor Paul Wellings (Chair) — University of Wollongong; Professor Greg Craven — Australian Catholic University; Professor Rufus Black — University of Tasmania; Professor Dawn Freshwater — University of Western Australia; ***Professor Sandra Harding — James Cook University; Ms Barbara Bennett PSM — Former Deputy Secretary, Department of Social Services.

    The panel brings together respected experts in higher education, including expertise across different types of institutions. The panel is expected to provide its report to Government by the middle of 2019.
    https://ministers.education.gov.au/tehan/improving-university-funding

    as for the Chancellor’s bio – not exacgtly a man the Govt would criticise either!

    JCU: Governance: The Chancellor: Mr Bill Tweddell
    Mr Bill Tweddell was appointed as Chancellor in 2016 for a five year term which will conclude on 25 March 2021.
    •Chancellor’s biography (LINK)
    https://www.jcu.edu.au/governance/the-chancellor

    from bio:

    Bill Tweddell Chancellor, James Cook University BA, BEc JCU
    Mr Tweddell enjoyed a distinguished career in Australia’s diplomatic service spanning four decades. Most recently he served as Australia’s Ambassador to the Philippines from January 2012 to January 2016.
    Mr Tweddell was a senior career officer with the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. He served as Head of the Americas and Africa Division and in other senior positions in the Department in Canberra, and as Australian Ambassador to Vietnam, Deputy High Commissioner to the United Kingdom, Consul-General to Hong Kong and Macau, High Commissioner to Sri Lanka and the Maldives, and Deputy High Commissioner to India, with earlier postings to Greece and Bangladesh. He was also Chief of Staff and Principal Adviser to the former Minister for Foreign Affairs, Alexander Downer.
    Mr Tweddell began his working life at JCU (1970 – 75)…

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  • #
    Bulldust

    File under “it’s worse than we thought” … you know, the circular file:

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-23/climate-change-accelerating-warn-scientists/11537240

    Predictably the UN comes out with the alarmist agitprop leading into the NY meeting. One assumes the new prophet Thunberg will be a centrepiece of the event.

    20

  • #
    pat

    Video: Josh Einiger reports – estimated 60,000; unseasonably hot day; people were passing out left and right from dehydration; ***Greta sailed across the ocean by herself last month; sea level rise of 6 feet by end of the century, so this part of the city will be underwater.

    VIDEO: 2min47sec: 21 Sept: ABC7: More than ***60,000 in New York City attend Global Climate Strike
    by Diana Rocco, Eyewitness News; The Associated Press contributed to this story.
    video:
    Officials said more than ***60,000 attended…
    https://abc7ny.com/politics/live-%7C-nyc-students-walk-out-for-global-climate-strike/5554828/

    meanwhile, Daily Mail finds a real trash story, and immediately trashes it by claiming ***300,000 marched. shameful:

    23 Sept: Daily Mail: So much for clearing up the planet! Climate change protesters who marched through Manhattan are branded hypocrites for leaving litter strewn across the city
    ***300,000 people marched through New York City on Sunday as part of the People’s Climate March…
    By MailOnline Reporter
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2765426/Climate-change-protesters-marched-Manhattan-branded-hypocrites-leaving-litter-strewn-city.html

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  • #
    David Maddison

    I don’t like the acronym HELE for high efficiency low emissions coal plant because it just reinforces the idea that “emissions” are a problem when of course they are not.

    40

    • #
      Greg in NZ

      Plus it’s spelled very similar to that hot burny place we’re all – apparently – banishing ourselves AND THE PLANET if we don’t take (take? as in stealing and colonialism?) a.c.t.i.o.n. n.o.w.

      How about simply calling them HE plants? Coz boys can do anything too! And to keep social worriers happy, call some SHE plants so everything’s equal, in balance, like, social (ism).

      10

  • #
    pat

    unattributed and nothing to back up exaggerated figures from the “organisers”, but at least it gives some police estimates:

    Updated 21 Sept: ABC: Global climate strike sees ‘hundreds of thousands’ of Australians rally across the country
    Organisers estimate 300,000 Australians have gathered at climate change rallies around the country in one of the largest protest events in the nation’s history…
    Organisers say they expect millions of people to turn out worldwide in 150 countries…

    More than 2,500 Australian businesses took part, either closing their doors or allowing their employees to walk off the job.
    The businesses signed on to ***Not Business As Usual, an alliance which said it was a “group of Australian and global businesses pledging to support worker participation in the climate strike”.

    The exact number of demonstrators nationally was unclear, but more conservative estimates put the number closer to 180,000…

    PIC: Organisers said 150,000 attended the rally in Melbourne. (ABC News)

    In Brisbane, organisers estimated more than 35,000 people were in attendance. Queensland Police said the figure was closer to 12,000…

    In Hobart, thousands of protesters gathered at the lawns outside Parliament House…
    Organisers put the figure at 22,000 in Hobart, while police said they could not confirm crowd numbers…

    In Perth, where organisers put the figure at 10,000 demonstrators…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-20/school-strike-for-climate-draws-thousands-to-australian-rallies/11531612

    19 Sept: SMH: More than 2000 companies give staff time off to attend climate strike
    By Jenny Noyes
    Future Super founder Simon Sheikh said the campaign, branded “This is not business as usual”, was launched after a group of employees requested time off to attend the strike.
    Future Super decided to close its office for the day, Mr Sheikh said, but soon realised a lot of other employers “were probably going to want to do the same thing”.
    Future Super had wanted to target 50 employers, but word spread and by Thursday the number had climbed to more than 2000…

    Mr Sheikh said it appeared most of the companies that had signed up had not previously taken a public stand on climate change.
    “These are mainstream businesses, they’re tech businesses, design companies, start-ups, there’s a furniture store involved, retailers are involved, a lot of tradespeople, there are a number of doctors surgeries who are closing for the day or having long lunch breaks,” he said…
    It comes a week after Prime Minister Scott Morrison chastised businesses for speaking out on social issues, which he described as a “distraction” from economic concerns…

    Mr Sheikh said “the vast majority of Australians are actually expecting business to be part of the solution” on climate change.
    https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/more-than-2000-companies-give-staff-time-off-to-attend-climate-strike-20190919-p52szm.html

    10

    • #
      pat

      reminders re the founders of Future Super:

      Wikipedia: Simon Sheikh is the CEO of superannuation fund Future Super and an Australian political activist. He was the National Director of GetUp! from 2008 to 2012…
      Sheikh is managing director of Future Super, an ethical superfund, which he cofounded with Adam Verwey…
      Sheikh was a financial member of the Australian Labor Party for two years from 2004 to 2006, while the party still listed him as member until 2008, an affiliation he did not disclose until 2013…
      In 2012, a few months after stepping down as National Director of GetUp, Sheikh successfully ran for pre-selection in the ACT as an Australian Greens Senate candidate for the 2013 Federal Election…
      In April 2013, it was claimed by students that Sheikh promoted his candidacy and his Greens membership during two political science lectures at the Australian National University and that his wife had sought to recruit campaign volunteers…
      Sheikh was an unsuccessful Australian Greens’ Senate candidate for the Australian Capital Territory in the 2013 Australian federal election…

      In November, 2011, Sheikh married Australian climate activist Anna Rose (co-founder Australian Youth Climate Coalition AYCC; until recently, was the Chair of the AYCC board. starred in ABC’s documentary, “I Can Change Your Mind on Climate Change”; currently sits on the Board of Directors of Farmers for Climate Action)

      LinkedIn: Adam Verwey, Founder and Director at Future Super, Canberra
      Adam is also portfolio manager for the Thomson Reuters Australian Fossil Fuel Free Index…
      The Greens candidate for Fraser at 2013 Federal Election
      The Greens Feb 2013 – Sep 2013·
      https://au.linkedin.com/in/adam-verwey-77668913

      the protesters in Australia consisted of some children wagging school to bathe in the adulation of the entire FakeNewsMSM, plus adults who lost the “climate election” that wasn’t.

      10

  • #
    Zane

    Guardian says countries need to triple their emissions reductions targets. Does that include China? And will Beijing allow international auditors unimpeded access to monitor compliance? I thought not. So it’s all up to the rich West to save the world. {Sarc}

    30

  • #
    theRealUniverse

    Heres a beauty, more FAKE news hogoblins.
    A(BS)C ‘Aunty’ today news. (who lap up this inane BS like kitties at the milk bowl)
    In merry little old Switzerland, they are having a ‘funeral’ for a glacier (Note: high altitude) that has melted away due to ..’climate change’ yes the usual hobgoblin.
    Now at altitude glaciers dont MELT due to air temperature (usually low or often below 0) and well above sea level or where all that nasty 30+ deg heat is..OH MY! They melt when the SUN IR melts the ice surface, and DONT grow due to lack of precipitation, probably in this case due to EL NINO type conditions.

    10

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      In addition the usual BS from the WMO at the (fake) climate (scam) conference, ‘climate change’ is ACCELERATING!. OMG duck for cover!

      10

      • #
        Greg in NZ

        Thought the old WMO boss said it was all a crock: has the ABC carried that story? Crickets…

        So one glacier fades while another one or two or three grow. Thanks to global heating – this week’s catchphrase – over one metre of fresh new snow is on the way for the Southern Alps, with snow from Rakiura (Stewart Island below the South Island) all the way up the Mainland to the North Island’s Ruapehu and Central Plateau, even as far north as the hills behind Gisborne up on the East Cape… kapai bro’!

        The northern hemi’s in for a good lashing this week too; love it when Nature mocks man, especially UN-man, especially when they’re gathered in one place to scream FIRE! while the planet chills. Scribes & Pharisees the lot of ‘em (Aramaic prīšayyā ‘separated ones’; a hypocrite; self-righteous person; toady; UN bureaucrat).

        10

  • #
    David Maddison

    We are doomed!

    A new report published ahead of key UN climate talks has warned the world is falling drastically behind in the race to avert climate disaster, with the five-year period ending in 2019 the hottest on record.

    Key points:

    The new report revealed that global temperatures between 2015-2019 were the hottest on record

    It noted carbon emissions in the same period had risen by 20 per cent

    Its authors also warned of the alarming extent of sea-level rise and melting glaciers

    The data, compiled by the World Meteorological Organization (WMO), says climate change is accelerating, with sea levels rising, carbon dioxide levels increasing and ice sheets melting faster than ever before.

    “This reads like a credit card statement after a five-year-long spending binge,” said Dave Reay, chair in carbon management at the University of Edinburgh.

    “Our global carbon credit is maxed out,” he added.

    “If emissions don’t start falling there will be hell to pay.”

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-23/climate-change-accelerating-warn-scientists/11537240

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    • #
      theRealUniverse

      ‘It noted carbon emissions in the same period had risen by 20 per cent’ so how much was ABSORBED? (out of that rise) its all smoke and mirrors.
      AND outright LIES!

      20

      • #
        Greg in NZ

        AC/DC – Avert Climate Disaster CCCrap!

        Rock and roll ain’t noise pollution
        Rock and roll ain’t gonna die
        CO₂ ain’t sky pollution
        CO₂ ain’t gonna die

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  • #
    Maptram

    “The data, compiled by the World Meteorological Organization (WMO), says climate change is accelerating, with sea levels rising, carbon dioxide levels increasing and ice sheets melting faster than ever before.”

    It’s in the wrong order. If the theory was true, that CO2 levels increase and cause warming, the correct order would be CO2 levels rising, ice sheets melting and sea levels rising. But we know the CO2 bit is wrong so the rest is as well.

    In addition, it’s not as if the ice sheets at both ends of the planet melt at the same time, when one is in summer the other is in winter.

    00

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      And of course its a great lie, neither the ice sheets are melting or sea levels rising. So WMO where is the data to back it up? NOWHERE!

      00

    • #
      Serp

      But the WMO is just another arm of the UNO; are we suppose to think it is in some way independent of, and provides a different voice from, the IPCC? All these bodies have their feet on the same slippery ground.

      I dunno, is there a prize given for the most alarmist press release? Are we to be subjected to this right up to the COP25 in Chile over November-December?

      It looks like high time to bury oneself in a large time consuming project for the next few months so as to be oblivious of their ruckus.

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  • #
    pat

    more on Simon Sheikh’s “Not Buiness as Usual”:

    18 Sept: MediaWeek: Nine’s Pedestrian Group joins Global Climate Strike alliance
    This week’s Global Climate Strike organised by youth activists and school kids has attracted the support of Australian media, with a string of news outlets coming on board Not Business As Usual ahead the Global Climate Strike on Friday 20 September.
    Since launching with Future Super alongside a handful of other businesses on 3 September, Not Business As Usual has attracted the support of over 1,500 Australian and global companies, including a number of Aussie publishers including:
    Pedestrian Group, Mamamia, Urban List, TimeOut, Hardie Grant Media, Karry On, Finder.com.au, Green Magazine, Australian Geographic, That Startup Show, Dumbo Feather, Uro Publications, Kookie magazine, Radio Adelaide, RTRFM 92.1, Renew Economy, Kill Your Darlings magazine and Intermedia Group.

    ***Matt Rowley, CEO of Pedestrian Group, said: “It’s important for Pedestrian Group to make a stand because our generation of readers is being sold out. Not just by a lack of conscience over the environmental disaster unfolding around us, but also by an absence of vision as to how an Australian renewable-based economy could lead the world into a better future for all.”…
    https://www.mediaweek.com.au/nines-pedestrian-group-joins-global-climate-strike-alliance/

    ***LinkedIn: Matt Rowley, Chief Executive Officer at Pedestrian Group, Sydney
    Apr 2019 – Present
    The home of Pedestrian.TV, Pedestrian JOBS, POPSUGAR, Business Insider, Gizmodo, Lifehacker and Kotaku in Australia…
    Director of Sales, Publishing, Nine Entertainment Co.
    Dec 2018 – Apr 2019
    Fairfax Media
    2 years 3 months…ETC
    https://au.linkedin.com/in/matt-rowley-854b583

    reminder:

    NineEntertainment: Board of Directors
    Peter Costello, Independent Non-Executive Chairman
    Mr Costello is currently Chairman of the Board of Guardians of Australia’s Future Fund and serves on a number of domestic and international advisory boards…

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    • #
      pat

      19 Sept: RenewEconomy: RenewEconomy and The Driven back Not Business As Usual and climate strike
      by Sophie Vorrath
      Management and staff of RenewEconomy and EV Media, publisher of our sister site The Driven, will be taking a long lunch this coming Friday – not in some weird throw-back to the 80s, but to lend our support to the global student-led fight against political inaction on change.
      We’ll be doing this as part of Not Business As Usual (LINK), an alliance of more than 2,100 Australian businesses lending their support and encouraging and allowing their staff to support and participate in a series of Global Climate Strikes between September 20 and 27…
      Of course, Australia’s Coalition government has a vastly different view of the situation to this, and most recently has shown strong signs of returning to its climate denial roots…

      23 Sept: AFR: Tech leaders taking action on climate change beyond the strike
      by Yolanda Redrup
      Leaders of some of the country’s biggest tech companies are committed to playing a bigger role in the push to tackle climate change, and say that participating in last Friday’s strike was just the start…
      Redbubble chief executive Barry Newstead, who also signed the Not Business As Usual pledge and donated $1 of every transaction made on Friday to environmental organisation 350.org, said he was committed to making the company carbon neutral…

      Atlassian co-chief executive Mike Cannon-Brookes attended the strike in Sydney and has been one of the most vocal advocates for renewable energy adoption.
      He has blamed the government’s lack of credible policies on climate change as the reason businesses have had to act, saying the economic impact of climate change was coming “at us like a freight train”…
      A few hundred staff from ASX-listed financial services software company IRESS also attended the strike, and chief executive Andrew Walsh said the business had cut down on air travel and deployed energy-efficient lighting to tackle climate change…
      https://www.afr.com/technology/tech-leaders-taking-action-on-climate-change-beyond-the-strike-20190920-p52t89

      20 Sept: PV Mag: Not Business as Usual for Australia’s Clean Energy Industry
      Australia’s clean energy industry needs to get behind Not Business As Usual, an alliance of more than 600 businesses supporting the Global Climate Strike, a national day of action where students, young people and adults will participate in nation-wide rally against climate change.
      Olivia Smith and Gabriel Wong co-founders of Positive Good: “Solar installers, technology vendors, project developers to investors who are committed to building a clean energy future in Australia are extremely frustrated with this policy vacuum. It has hindered their ability to grow the clean energy industry and the lack of policy certainty and a new Renewable Energy Target is hurting this industry.”…

      CANDIDATE FOR WORST WEBSITE IN THE WORLD, BUT PROBABLY A GOOD INDICATION OF WHERE WE’D BE IF THIS LOT WERE EVER TO TAKE OVER THE ECONOMY:

      Not Business As Usual website
      https://www.notbusinessasusual.co/

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  • #
    MudCrab

    I had a very quick and dirty look at the ABS website to get some population figures.

    Without digging too deep for hard numbers, the summary graphs strongly suggest there about over 2million Australians within the 10 to 19 age bracket that live in the ‘Greater Capital Cities’ plus about another million ‘elsewhere’.

    So, if we assume this age bracket is prime Greta Strike material and assume that ‘elsewhere’ kiddlings are not going to be able to get into the formal CBD protests we have a pool of 2million Kilmate Khange Kids that COULD have been striking last week.

    Now of course not all strikers would have been school kiddies, so we would need to factor in all the ‘legal guardians’ that also attended to crowd numbers, but we still should have had a 7 figure number for combined Australia wide Climate Strike attendance. Right?

    400,000 in Sydney alone? 300,000 in Melbourne? These would be reasonable figures, right?

    I think they say to ‘march’ in a group you need 1m frontage and 2m between the ranks. If we assume the protest is marching down some nice wide major street we have a frontage of about 25m or so which means for the 400,000 protesters marching behind we would need about 32km of road for them to form up on.

    Now since I don’t watch the ABC out of principle I no doubt missed this amazing sight, but no doubt it totally existed.

    RIGHT?

    Anything smaller would only suggest that the Climate Strike was, oh, I don’t know, A MASSIVE FAILURE.

    20

    • #
      Greg in NZ

      And if Tim Flim Flammery marched in Melbourne, as he said he would, then it would’ve been A COLOSSAL FAILURE. Surely ‘colossal’ is bigger than ‘massive’ yeah? And we all know what ‘failure’ is, eh Timmy?

      00

  • #
    pat

    not so long ago:

    28 Aug: BBC: Thomas Cook to sell majority stake to China’s Fosun
    Troubled travel firm Thomas Cook says it has agreed a rescue deal with investor Fosun Tourism, its banks and a majority of its bondholders.
    The UK tour operator said in July it was working to secure new investment from Fosun, a major shareholder.
    The new deal would see the Chinese group take control of the business at the expense of other shareholders.
    Fosun will put in £450m in return for at least 75% of the tour business and 25% of the group’s airline…
    Thomas Cook’s lending banks and bondholders will contribute a further £450m for 75% of the airline and up to 25% of the tour operator business…

    “It means the oldest brand in travel will continue to deliver good-value travel,” said Simon Calder, travel editor at the Independent. “A lot of uncertainty that people have, including staff, will be settled by this deal…
    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49493876

    23 Sept: UK Express: Thomas Cook LIVE updates: 600,000 tourists in travel hell after iconic firm collapses
    THOMAS COOK has finally announced it has gone into administration after days of panic for customers and employees.
    By Bill McLoughlin
    As it stands, 160,000 of those are UK citizens…
    Following the liquidation of the company, up to 9,000 jobs are now at risk…
    “The Government has asked the UK Civil Aviation Authority to launch a repatriation programme over the next two weeks, from Monday 23 September to Sunday 6 October, to bring Thomas Cook customers back to the UK…
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1181382/Thomas-Cook-live-travel-updates-tourists-holiday-liquidation-news-uk-news-airport

    earlier from Fox Business: Any failure to raise the required capital would elicit questions about the jobs of the ***22,000 staff Thomas Cook employs around the world, including 9,000 in Britain…

    10

  • #
    pat

    behind paywall…what ***escalating public concern about climate change?

    22 Sept: UK Times: Inside Labour’s green war on business
    Grassroots calls for Jeremy Corbyn to adopt a radical new approach to energy will strike fear into UK plc
    by Robert Watts
    The problem with Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell is that they are just not radical enough. That is the view of thousands of Labour members at this week’s party conference in Brighton. Their mission is to railroad the opposition’s leadership into going much further and faster on combating climate change.
    Operating under the banner Labour for a Green New Deal (LabGND), these campaigners want the party to commit the UK to a target of net zero-carbon emissions by 2030 — 20 years ahead of the current plan.
    They have bold ideas about how to get there, talking freely about decommissioning oilfields in the North Sea and erecting an entirely new green power grid that would be free for all to use. It would be called the National Energy Agency (NEA). What might at first sound like a tiff within the Labour family does in fact symbolise the collision between ***escalating public concern about climate change and politicians and business leaders who will have to address those fears – and find ways to foot the bill…

    A source close to Corbyn suggested that one possible alternative might be to commit to a 2040 target for zero carbon emissions instead. “It’s too close to call,” said one Labour figure on the right of the party when asked if the 2030 zero-carbon motion would pass this week. “Greening the economy must be done in an orderly way and we need the business community working with us to do that. Too much nationalisation, disruption and huge spending commitments and we’ll never get there.”
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b809f95e-dc87-11e9-8fc3-6e1b00e49ce4

    10

  • #
    pat

    behind paywall, with a few excerpts found. why so much attention given to XR that only began less than a year ago:

    22 Sept: UK Times: Does Extinction Rebellion really hold the solution to climate change?
    We’re doomed unless we take drastic action to stop climate change, says the environmental group bent on mass disruption. Are they right? Bryan Appleyard reports
    London is to be shut down for a week in October. If all goes to plan, New York, Paris, Madrid, Berlin and many other cities will also close. In fact, it may be two weeks, not one, starting from October 7. Be warned.
    The mastermind of this urban chaos is Roger Hallam, co-founder of the climate activist group Extinction Rebellion. He started out as an organic farmer in Wales until the weather “went weird” and his crops failed. Then he went to King’s College London, where he studied civil disobedience. He learnt a lot.
    “What I’m aiming towards,” he says, “is people unable to move in London for a week. That will be the biggest disruption since 1968.” That year, protests against capitalism and the…

    We must, they insist, cut UK net carbon emissions to zero by 2025…
    But if they’re right about the risk of climate change, why not? Are they right? I present two leading climate scientists with the science behind XR. “I don’t think we could disagree with any of that,” says Sir Brian Hoskins of Imperial College London. “I didn’t see anything that I thought was extreme in their science.”…
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/does-extinction-rebellion-really-hold-the-solution-to-climate-change-jvts27hhq

    can’t open the text:

    23 Sept: SouthChinaMorningPost: Op-ed: Capitalism is in crisis. It cannot be business as usual for very much longer
    •Capitalism has been keeping shareholders happy with merger mania, tax avoidance and an unhealthy preoccupation with share price that has inflated CEO pay beyond the reasonable
    •It is time for a painful reset to focus instead on economic growth and improving livelihoods – or risk jeopardising capitalism itself
    by David Dodwell
    (David Dodwell is the executive director of the Hong Kong-APEC Trade Policy Study Group, a trade policy think tank)
    It cannot be business as usual for very much longer … that some very bad things are happening around capitalism as it has been practised in…
    https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/article/3029823/capitalism-crisis-it-cannot-be-business-usual-very-much-longer

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    pat

    if only the establishment were not on their side:

    21 Sept: iNewsUK: Extinction Rebellion targets Dover Port to highlight the UK’s ‘dependency on food imports’
    ‘This crisis may seem far away now but given the dependency of the UK on food imports we are extremely vulnerable’
    By Simon Rushton
    The port is a key route for imports from around the world and a massive ferry passenger port.
    Two lanes at the busy Kent port were fenced off and taken over by the environmental activists amid a heavy police presence.
    Chris Atkins from Extinction Rebellion Dover said: “As climate change develops, millions of ordinary Britons will face the real and growing threat of food shortages, hunger and starvation.”

    ‘Tell the truth’
    He added: “Extreme storms and floods are already causing major crop failures across the world, with high temperatures also hitting livestock agriculture.”…
    “The Government must tell the truth and act now.”…

    There were huge tailbacks on the eastbound side of the road where traffic was queuing to reach ferries.
    Outside of the town protesters are reported to have “superglued” themselves to another section of the A20 and are holding up cars…
    https://inews.co.uk/news/environment/extinction-rebellion-port-dover-protest-636021

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      Carbon500

      Extinction Rebellion idiots – where are they in their deluded heads – what food shortages?
      Here’s a clip from the RSPCA (Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals) – I don’t see them protesting about this:
      Every year millions of farm animals including calves and sheep are transported all over Europe for further fattening and slaughter. Many suffer from stress, exhaustion, thirst and rough handling. The port of Ramsgate is the main ferry port to facilitate this trade from the UK, yet they lack appropriate facilities or inspections. Animals are often crammed into trucks on roads for hours before being loaded onto an unsuitable ferry originally built as a river tank carrier. Animals as young as two weeks old may be forced to endure this gruelling journey, before heading for conditions illegal in this country. Across the EU animals such as chickens, cattle, pigs, horses and goats are also transported long distances for slaughter, journey’s sometimes. lasting days. Urgent action is needed to ensure EU regulations protect the welfare of these billions of farm animals.

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    pat

    madness:

    21 Sept: Scotsman: Climate strikes: We must listen to the children and the scientists – leader comment
    They are speaking with one voice. And it is getting louder…
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/climate-strikes-we-must-listen-to-the-children-and-the-scientists-leader-comment-1-5008515

    22 Sept: HeraldScotland: We’re gloomed: How to cope in times of eco-anxiety
    By Vicky Allan, Senior features writer
    Caroline Hickman, a psychotherapist working with the University of Bath and the Climate Psychology Alliance, points out, adults too are having many “complicated feelings around the climate emergency”. “But they’re also thinking, how can I cope with my children’s feelings? How can I support my grandchildren?”

    Sometimes these feelings are described as eco-anxiety, a current buzzword, as Hickman observes, an inadequate descriptor for the full range of emotions around climate crisis. “Anxiety is the gateway in, but then people go through a whole process of emotions – depression, despair, frustration, among young people, that adults aren’t doing something, and hopelessness, and blaming.”…
    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17918929.39-re-gloomed-cope-times-eco-anxiety/

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    Russell Cairns

    Excellent article from Melanie Phillips here: https://www.melaniephillips.com/extinction-of-reason/

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    Zane

    Thunberg has the floor at the UN. That child needs to see a psychiatrist. Her handlers need to be prosecuted. Big Green needs to be declared what it is – an evil cult.

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    ross

    I assume JCU are appealing the damages awarded to Ridd, as they think the original payout was absurdly high.
    Pretty simple stuff, surely?

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