JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Midweek Unthreaded

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Rating: 9.7/10 (12 votes cast)
Midweek Unthreaded, 9.7 out of 10 based on 12 ratings

146 comments to Midweek Unthreaded

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Wow…the EU Elite are fighting desperately to stop Brexit…..

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-04/boris-johnson-loses-vote-support-no-deal-brexit/11476692

    “A cross-party alliance of British MPs has voted to take control of parliament in a bid to prevent the United Kingdom leaving the European Union without a deal at the end of October.

    “Rebel Conservative MPs joined forces with the Opposition — voting 328 to 301 — to seize Wednesday’s parliamentary agenda and bring forward a bill that would force Prime Minister Boris Johnson to delay Brexit unless a new deal is backed by MPs or they vote for a no-deal exit.

    “Mr Johnson has consistently said the UK must leave the EU on October 31 — with or without a deal — and he is now expected to put forward a motion to call a snap election on October 14.
    Earlier in the day Mr Johnson lost his working majority in the House of Commons after a Conservative MP sensationally defected to a rival party as the prime minister addressed the chamber.

    “Shortly after crossing the floor Phillip Lee, who supports a second EU referendum, released a strongly-worded statement announcing he had joined the centre-left Liberal Democrats.

    100

    • #
      PeterS

      It’s such a mess. As a last resort he has to call a snap election and let the people decided (again). “All-in” as they say in certain poker games.

      100

      • #
        Another Ian

        I reckon you can look forward to a new set of rules for the speaker if Boris or Nigel gets to win this

        80

      • #
        beowulf

        This depressing Boris-created mess was caused by his faffing about, half wanting a deal and half not. He has wasted a number of opportunities to nuke the Remainers. Had he gone for broke with his prorogation and done the full 8 weeks he could have given the treacherous scum no opportunity to get up to dirty tricks. It might be the longest prorogation since Cromwell, but who cares? Parliamentary conventions are being trashed regularly by the Speaker. Boris left a couple of weeks open for parliament to approve another deal and this is the result. His chief advisor Cummings and Rees-Mogg, leader in the HOC are supposed to have workshopped every conceivable Remainer ploy so as to have counter measures ready. I do hope so.

        However much he needs one, Boris can’t just “call a snap election” mid-term, unlike in Oz. With fixed term parliaments he needs a trigger such as a no-confidence motion or a majority of MPs to vote for an election. I’m not sure what other triggers there might be, but they are few. He needs to manipulate an election into existence somehow and paint himself as the good guy — champion of the people against a reactionary parliament, and he most definitely needs Farage on board as a partner. Most Remainers are trying desperately NOT to have an election before they have torpedoed a No-Deal permanently because most know they will be flung out on their ar$es by their pro-Brexit electorates. This is do or die for both sides.

        If the convention-busting Speaker Bercow hands Remainers control of House business then No-Deal Brexit is almost lost unless Rees-Mogg can pull a rabbit out. Once they have quashed No-Deal they can set about stopping Brexit in any form. That’s the plan.

        The only good news is that the EU has stated it will not give an extension to the Article 50 leave date, but they change their minds daily, and if they smell blood they will soon sing a different tune.

        103

      • #
        Graeme#4

        It now seems that the UK parliament will vote not to have an election. It appears that Labor will support this.

        30

    • #
      Kalm Keith

      We do live in interesting times.

      50

    • #
      Bulldust

      To quote Lauren Southern “This is conquered land.”

      30

  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    In a balanced carbon cycle there is no net gain or loss in the amount of oxygen in the atmosphere. CO2 O2 and C. Now that the amount of CO2 has gone to 400 odd ppm from 300, where is the extra O2 coming from? If it is the oceans, what does that do to the dissolved O2 levels?

    217

    • #
      el gordo

      The minuscule CO2 increase cannot upset the balance and correct me if I’m wrong, a quiet sun should produce more O2.

      101

    • #
      Matthew Bruha

      I have always wondered what we have lost from the atmosphere to make way for the extra 100ppm CO2

      90

    • #
      Graeme#4

      When all the fuss about the Amazon was going on, I recall a scientist saying that we could shut down all the oxygen generation sources on this planet for a long time, yet still retain most of the oxygen present in our atmosphere. Interesting comment.

      80

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        Well that was tried during the Permian when oxygen levels declined from the very high 35% down to roughly current levels (due to a drier climate in the now joined up continent Pangeae).
        With the End Permian Extinction this dropped to around 15% in the middle Triassic, and this meant the rise of the dinosaurs with their more efficient breathing mechanism.

        70

    • #
      Graeme#4

      Another interesting fact – apparently during the MWP, when it was warmer than today, the CO2 level was less, around 300 ppm.

      110

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        Another interesting fact about humans and CO2 is that in our breathing to remove accumulation of “dirty carbon” from our bloodstream the process has an exchange rate of 100 to 1.

        This is an enormous safety valve for humans to “protect” us from surging, rampant atmospheric CO2 increases.

        It could also indicate that humans developed during past epochs where high CO2 levels were common.

        Ain’t nature mysterious.

        Kalm Keith

        KK

        70

      • #
        Kalm Keith

        Being moderated may have something to do with the name change.

        Mostly for reasons of provocation or confrontation with the warmers reading this blog I adopted that kinky moniker.

        Time now for change: I’m not Calm, but I do aspire to that state, hence KK remains but slightly different.

        100

        • #
          Annie

          KK…quite right…aspire to calmness. I’m finding it difficult atm, what with the disgraceful behaviour of the HoC re Brexit and huge amounts of idiocy wherever you look and on so many different fronts.

          60

    • #
      AndyG55

      “In a balanced carbon cycle there is no net gain or loss in the amount of oxygen in the atmosphere. CO2 O2 and C”

      Total and absolute anti-science BS from PF.

      The carbon cycle is always undergoing large fluctuations.

      Like when it warms from solar input and cloud variability, and huge amounts of CO2 are released
      from the ocean and large tracts of warmed land area.

      90

      • #
        AndyG55

        There are large fluctuations even on a dail,basis due to weather events.

        … and certainly there are large fluctuations over a year, as the unbalanced land masses of the different hemisphere have very different effects on the carbon cycle.

        Anyone thinking that the carbon cycle is “balanced” or “stationary” is rally showing their scientific ignorance.

        100

    • #
      AndyG55

      What is the change in atmospheric O2 concentration PF.

      Totally insignificant.

      70

    • #
      tom0mason

      Peter Fitzroy, wake up!

      On this planet is always in flux, always changing thus a “balanced carbon cycle” does NOT EXIST!
      Nature attempts to balance all environmental requirements but it lags behind the changes, so is always playing catch-up. Like the gentle warming (about 1°C) that has happened since 1850 lets nature release CO2 from the oceans and defrosted land.

      140

    • #
      AndyG55

      “If it is the oceans, what does that do to the dissolved O2 levels?”

      Absolutely nothing.

      98% or so of the world’s CO2 is already in the oceans.!

      How did you squeeze so much blatant ignorance into one comment, PF !

      110

    • #
    • #
      Bill in Oz

      Prove it is “BALANCED ” Fitz..
      Have you been around for millions of years
      Measuring continuously ?

      50

      • #
        Bill in Oz

        Do not ASSUME’
        What needs to be proved. !

        60

        • #
          • #
            AndyG55

            so funny,

            PF yet again posts a link without reading or comprehending it.

            One sentence,

            “Expressed in absolute concentration units, O2 is more variable than any other gas in the atmosphere.”

            Stop your mindless posts, PF, you are making a FOOL of yourself every time.

            100

            • #
              AndyG55

              oops. missed the last bit of the quote… “….. except H2O”

              80

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              where did you get that quote? it is not in the article

              010

              • #
                Dave

                It is Peter

                Try reading it.

                Bottom o Page 2 of the PDF

                WOW!

                80

              • #
                AndyG55

                try reading, idiot !

                40

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Pity you did not read on, the variation is less than 1ppm

                05

              • #
                AndyG55

                Pity you don’t comprehend basic statements like.

                “Expressed in absolute concentration units, O2 is more variable than any other gas in the atmosphere except H2O..””

                ——

                the variation is less than 1ppm

                So funny, :-)

                Such a pity you are too dumb to comprehend the whole paper, and see what a dumb, ignorant statement you just made.

                But I’ll leave you to try and figure it out, pointless trying to explain scientific comprehension to you.

                Maybe the statement..

                ” The seasonal amplitude is about 80 per meg in temperate latitudes, far larger than annual fossil fuel CO2 consumption of 20 per meg/year…..”

                … could give some clues to help overcome your innate incompetence and cluelessness. !!

                50

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        1 atom of Carbon + 2 Atoms of Oxygen = 1 Molecule of CO2. Going the other way (via plants) 1 Molecule of CO2 = 2 Atoms of Oxygen and one Atom of Carbon.
        If you increase the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere by burning carbon, why has the amount of oxygen stayed the same.

        07

        • #
          AndyG55

          Change is totally insignificant compared to normal variability of O2, PF.

          I know basic maths is totally beyond you, but at least try to engage your remaining brain cell before posting.!

          70

          • #
            AndyG55

            Oxygen around 20%.. CO2 around 0.04% total, human contribution maybe 0.006%

            any affect from human released CO2 on atmospheric oxygen, is second or third decimal place, at most.

            INSIGNIFICANT affect on atmospheric oxygen

            Comprehend, little mind?

            Or is the basic maths too difficult for you to grasp.

            90

        • #
          Dave

          PF

          Botany 101 – you must remember that

          6CO2 + 6H2O = C6H12O6 + 6O2

          Do you understand that 18 atoms of Oxygen are used up and only 12 released.

          Then you must understand that O2 and H2O both have huge variability in the atmosphere.

          Trying to link increased CO2 with O2 is total madness!

          Kind of like adding Capacity Factor to Output percentages!
          Back to school Peter!

          90

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            missing the point as usual

            08

            • #
              el gordo

              Laboratory experiments don’t automatically work in the real atmosphere, strongly suggest you read the comments on the Javier post below.

              50

            • #
              AndyG55

              You have NO POINT to make, PF. except by some weird moronic fantasy. !

              Certainly nothing based on anything real or scientific.

              Your posts are monotonously POINTLESS.

              80

            • #
              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                I was asking, why is O2 so consistent, along with nitrogen in the atmosphere. Of the 24 gigatons of CO2 produced by industry worldwide annually, 16 of those gigatons must be 02. We can measure CO2 to 1 ppm, and we know that O2 is not changing. Andy is saying that it is too small to measures, but as I say we have charted the rise in CO2, in ppm, but there is no corresponding change in O2.
                As usual, all the responses are off in the weeds, meaning no one really took the time to understand my question

                06

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                It says:

                20

              • #
                Kalm Keith

                It says:

                ” no one really took the time to understand my question”.

                And that’s especially applicable to the author.

                30

              • #
                AndyG55

                Seriously PF, you really are CLUELESS.

                And you don’t pay any attention to what is given to you.

                Because the change in O2 is NATURALLY far more variable than any affect of CO2

                Changes in a minor, but highly important trace gas are easily measured.

                “why is O2 so consistent “

                It isn’t. It changes far more than CO2 does.

                The relative changes are very small and insignificant, because there is so much of it.

                Numbers and relative quantities really do confuse you, don’t they PF !!

                Is that really too much for you to comprehend ???????

                61

              • #
                AndyG55

                “no one really took the time to understand my question”

                That’s because people can’t be bother translating your garbled gibberish.

                61

              • #
                Jim Ross

                The changes in atmospheric oxygen are certainly tiny, but they are measureable and are documented here for example: http://scrippso2.ucsd.edu/index. They show a general decline which, as Scripps says: “The changes are too small to have an impact on human health, but are of interest to the study of climate change and carbon dioxide”.

                The reason that this is important is that the atmospheric O2:CO2 ratio of changes since 1990 shows an excellent linear relationship, with a gradient of 2.1 moles O2 reduced per mole of CO2 increased, whereas the terrestrial biosphere (photosynthesis/respiration) is considered to be around 1.1 and the burning of fossil fuels averages 1.3 (but with a wide range reflecting different fuel types). The AGW explanation for this substantial difference involves some rather major assumptions which, to me at least, are not very convincing.

                30

    • #
      NigelW

      PF, your question “what does that do to the dissolved O2 levels?” has an answer called “Henry’s Law”

      The ratio of dissolved gases in the ocean to gas in the air is 50:1, an inconvenient fact to those who think mankind has a measurable effect on the climate…..

      50

    • #
      David Wojick

      The conjectured extra oxygen may have come from the widespread greening of the terrestrial biosphere.

      20

  • #
    el gordo

    Javier has a post at Climate Etc where he joins the dots between ENSO and solar forcing.

    https://judithcurry.com/2019/09/01/enso-predictions-based-on-solar-activity/#comments

    30

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    CA, a Leftist utopia, has a rat problem……now one city wants to ban rat poison it seems.

    CA could turn into a Medaevil, black hole.

    https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2019/08/28/wsj-california-is-a-land-of-rats-n2551402

    “California’s decades-long affair with liberal politics has brought disease—literally. Rats are overrunning parts of the state. It’s only amplified by the rising homelessness crisis. For a region of the country that is smug, wealthy, and condescending to no end about how great they are—they do have a lot of bums in the street, fecal matter in the street, and hypodermic needles in the street. San Francisco is covered in crap.

    “And the solution is quite simple: clean up the damn cities. But that would mean be mean to homeless people or something. Well, they’re ground zero for the rat infestation, which has brought back diseases we haven’t seen on such a daily basis since medieval times.

    “Typhus has broken out. Police stations in Los Angeles were forced to pay fines that soared into the thousands of dollars due to the unsanitary conditions. City hall is running wild with rats. And now the state EPA office in Sacramento was forced to close its outdoor playground due to their rat problem; they were worried about kids getting sick. And what is the state proposing now? Oh, they want to ban rat poison (via WSJ):

    “”There were so many rats scurrying around the California EPA office in Sacramento this summer that the agency had to close its outdoor playground to prevent children from getting sick. After California’s EPA applied rat poison, environmentalists howled that the pesticide could harm species that prey on rats.

    “Democrats in Sacramento are now moving legislation to ban “second-generation” rodenticides that are more potent than earlier poisons against which rats have developed immunity. “Predatory species, such as raptors, bobcats, and foxes, regularly consume rodents as part of their diet.

    “Poisoned rodents also become more lethargic and exhibit abnormal behavior,” a bill analysis notes. But “data are less conclusive in pointing to [anticoagulant rodenticides] as the specific cause of death in necropsied animals.”

    80

    • #
      yarpos

      So they dont care about the Raptors getting clobbered by wind turbines but do care about them getting secondary rat poisoning. Sounds about the usual level of liberal consistent logic.

      50

    • #
      Surftilidie

      Maybe if they didn’t have so many wind turbines slicing and dicing the raptors, there would be fewer rats!

      50

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Common sense prevails….unrelaibles appear to have caused enough grief already…..

    https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6365746/minister-against-higher-renewables-target/?cs=14231

    “”Australia’s renewable energy target of less than one-quarter of all electricity generation won’t be increased, the minister responsible has declared.

    “Australia is on track to achieve next year’s target due to four large wind and solar power projects recently given the green light.

    “Under the target, 33,000 gigawatt-hours – or 23.5 per cent – of Australia’s electricity will come from renewable sources by 2020.

    “The target was slashed in 2015 under the Abbott government from 41,000 gigawatt hours, with the support of Energy Minister Angus Taylor, who says it was too high.

    “”Those targets won’t be increased, and the reason is very simple, it’s because the economics of this is working fine now,” he told ABC Radio on Wednesday.

    “Mr Taylor says the boost in renewable energy has created a new challenge for the electricity system, fearing summer blackouts if there’s not enough baseload power.

    “He says expanding the Snowy Hydro scheme, developing a second interconnector between Tasmania and the mainland, and the Apple Isle’s “Battery of the Nation” vision are all high priorities.

    “”These are crucial investments to get the balance in the system, that is the key now.”

    “Mr Taylor admits there is “no question” the cost of energy from wind and solar are low, arguing this proves there’s no longer a need for a renewable energy target.

    40

    • #
      pat

      OriginalSteve -

      the Minister gets about 5mins & a bit – Sabra has a lengthy intro. note the multiple rude interruptions of the Minister by Sabra:

      AUDIO: 5min58sec: ABC AM: Clean energy regulator predicts Australia will hit renewable energy target by 2020
      On AM with Sabra Lane
      For his insights, Energy Minister Angus Taylor joins AM.
      https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/am/energy-regulator-predicts-australia-will-hit-target-2020/11476920

      on the other hand, Hamish Macdonald fawns over Kane Thornton (Clean Energy Council as he criticises the Govt. near the end he calls Thornton’s criticism “scathing”:

      AUDIO: 9min57sec: 4 Sept: ABC Breakfast: Australia ‘on track’ to meet Renewable Energy Target
      Minister for Energy and Emissions Angus Taylor has hailed the result, but has rejected calls for the target to be extended beyond 2020.
      Guest: Kane Thornton, chief executive, Clean Energy Council
      https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/australia-on-track-to-meet-renewable-energy-target/11476790

      30

      • #
        pat

        Thornton’s twitter page is a hoot:

        Twitter: Kane Thornton, Clean Energy Council
        4 Sept – Renewable energy no longer requires new subsidy, but policy certainty critical. Will Liddell be kept open? Will govt force divestment of coal assets? Will new network investments occur in time? Will govt fund new coal? What emissions cuts are expected of energy sector?

        2 Sept – Australia can embrace and leverage the opportunity & inevitability of our changing energy system. Or we can wallow in delusional nostalgia about old coal and be debilitated by fear of the future…

        30 Aug – Anyone advocating for new coal or nuclear is advocating for taxpayer funding of powerstations. Private investors are prepared to fund new generation, but only renewables + storage…

        29 Aug – I’ve been asked why the clean energy industry peak body isn’t providing a submission to the latest Nuclear Inquiry. It’s a waste of time, so here’s our contribution CHART…

        28 Aug – re-tweets Darren Gladman, Clean Energy Council
        Victorian solar installers should have plenty of work soon with the number of rebates set to triple in September. Applications open again on Monday 2 September..

        27 Aug – Great news for the Victorian solar industry: Government increases the number of rebates to ensure industry can get back to work. Thanks @LilyDAmbrosioMP @DanielAndrewsMP

        26 Aug – Investors starting to pause renewable energy investment in Australia due to lack of policy, major grid & market barriers. Time for political leadership…
        https://twitter.com/kanethornton

        01

    • #

      Original Steve mentions this:

      “Under the target, 33,000 gigawatt-hours – or 23.5 per cent – of Australia’s electricity will come from renewable sources by 2020.

      I’m of the opinion that this is just from power plant generated power, and does not include rooftop solar power, otherwise the figures just don’t correlate.

      So far I have 48 weeks of data, and adding together Hydro, Wind power and solar plant power, the total generated power from those three sources after those 48 weeks comes in at 30906GWH.

      Extrapolating that out over 52 weeks, a whole year gives a total of 33481GWH, surprisingly close to that 33000GWH. (1.45% higher)

      It seems that I may just be doing it correctly after all.

      However, that only comes in at 16.85% of total power generation, mainly because that total power generation from every source has increased, and it wouldn’t increase like that without a similar increase in actual power consumption.

      If we take their figures of 33000GWH and their percentage of 23.5%, then total power generation would only be 140425GWH, and it’s already 183480GWH after 48 weeks, and more if you add on rooftop solar power.

      Tony.

      60

    • #
      yarpos

      Lordy this “battery of the nation” line is aggravating. They are a fly speck on the butt of aggregate mainland demand. Sounds more impressive than the battery of coastal Victoria I guess.

      30

  • #
    Lance

    Very good article. The resource list at the end of the article, alone, is worth a great deal as reference.

    Article highlights the impossibility of the Green New Deal based on physics and economic reality.

    “The New Energy Economy: An Exercise in Magical Thinking”

    https://www.peabodyenergy.com/Peabody/media/MediaLibrary/Case%20for%20Coal/Magical-Thinking-Mills-%28March-2019%29.pdf

    Apologies if this is old news to the many.

    70

    • #
      Graeme#4

      Have already saved that article as a reference. As you say, lots of good solid points.

      50

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      This is excellent..
      ‘In the world of people, cars, planes, and factories, increases in consumption, speed, or carrying capacity cause
      hardware to expand, not shrink. The energy needed to move a ton of people, heat a ton of steel or silicon, or grow
      a ton of food is determined by properties of nature whose boundaries are set by laws of gravity, inertia, friction,
      mass, and thermodynamics
      —not clever software. ‘
      So true,
      And all the other reasons for NOT relying on (un)renewables due to physical limits of natural laws.

      30

  • #
    pat

    ***is any of this related to new transmission lines for RE? Colac is mentioned & I thought there is a wind farm there. correct me if I’m wrong:

    3 Sept: Age: Bill for bushfire safety program rises to almost $700 million
    By Benjamin Preiss and Adam Carey
    The cost of an experimental program to reduce bushfire risk from powerlines is set to blow out to almost $700 million – more than four times its initial cost – amid warnings it will make the electricity network less reliable.
    Electricity distributor Powercor is seeking approval to spend a further $164 million to install rapid earth fault current limiters at eight electrical substations in fire-prone parts of western Victoria…

    Powercor also said in its application to the Australian Energy Regulator that “there is a decrease in reliability to customers once the REFCL is in operation”.
    The decrease could expose some Victorian towns to the risk of lengthy blackouts on days of total fire ban this summer…
    The owner of a luxury getaway in Apollo Bay (Seafarers Getaway owner Warrick Ballinger) said he will spend up to $200,000 on diesel generators to guarantee uninterrupted power supply, after Powercor told him the seaside town could face longer outages this summer.
    Apollo Bay is fed by high voltage power lines from ***Colac, where one of these current limiters has recently been installed…

    “We’ve got 23 apartments here, [we’ve] got international guests that we’re charging reasonable money – it’s not a budget place – and they expect the air conditioners to work and the lights to work,” Mr Ballinger said…

    According to CSIRO trials, rapid earth fault current limiters reduce the risk of a spark from a fallen high voltage powerline by 50 to 55 per cent.
    Victoria is the only place in the world that uses them to reduce bushfire risk…
    https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/bill-for-bushfire-safety-program-rises-to-almost-700-million-20190903-p52nm0.html

    3 Sept: Age: Tonnes of recycling to landfill despite government $10m rescue package
    By Clay Lucas and Benjamin Preiss
    Thousands of tonnes of recycling, separated by Victorian residents and given to failed recycler SKM by councils, will be dumped in the tip despite a $10 million loan from the Andrews government to help sort out the mess…
    This means around half of the waste at SKM’s six-hectare Laverton site – triple the size of the MCG and the biggest of the insolvent company’s sorting centres – is being bulldozed into trucks and then driven to the Ravenhall tip…
    Much of the material is so badly contaminated there is no option but for it to be sent to landfill…
    Among the companies left holding SKM’s waste is Marwood Construction, which owns a Derrimut warehouse filled with around 10,000 tonnes of rubbish…
    The rubbish going to the tip is being taken to Ravenhall, which is owned by Cleanaway – the company that bought $60 million of SKM’s $100 million debts. Cleanaway appointed KordaMentha the receiver of SKM.
    It comes as fresh details emerged of the $28 million debt that one of SKM’s subsidiaries owed to small firms all over Australia…
    https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/tonnes-of-recycling-to-landfill-despite-government-10m-rescue-package-20190903-p52nkd.html

    20

    • #
      Graeme#4

      Leaves me wondering where “recycled” waste from my local Perth council ends up. My bet is that it goes straight to landfill. If I ask my local council, I doubt that I would obtain a straight answer.

      30

    • #
      yarpos

      ““We’ve got 23 apartments here, [we’ve] got international guests that we’re charging reasonable money – it’s not a budget place – and they expect the air conditioners to work and the lights to work,” Mr Ballinger said…”

      Welcome to D’Ambrosio World Mr Ballinger, all those “renewables” putting downward pressure on prices and delivering sooooooooo much energy. BTW you will need to BYO generator because it is all built on BS.

      60

  • #
    pat

    analysed one day – 1st April (lol) – in the news cycle:

    3 Sept: The Wire: Young people shut out of News
    In a new study, it was found that less than 1% of News stories actually included young people. Is it younger people who are captured by social media or is it mainstream media ignoring younger people?
    Featured in story
    Associate Professor Michael Dezuanni, Queensland University of Technology
    http://thewire.org.au/story/young-people-shut-out-of-news/

    7min30sec to end – Greta:

    AUDIO: 8min18sec: 3 Sept: ABC Melbourne Breakfast: Young Australians are not given opportunity to be heard in the news media
    On Breakfast with Jacinta Parsons and Sami Shah
    A Qld University study into 276 news stories across eight national, state and regional newspapers and four national and state television news bulletins were analysed on ***April 1st 2019 and only 1 per cent included the views or experiences of young people.
    Sami and Jacinta spoke with Michael Dezuaani, who along with Tanya Notley, authored the study, also found young people aged eight to 16 were ten times more likely to be seen rather than heard.
    https://www.abc.net.au/radio/melbourne/programs/breakfast/michael-dezuanni-youth-not-qouted/11473038

    more to come.

    11

    • #
      pat

      ABC’s Natasha begins with Greta & the yacht, Tai on Greta… then Natasha says “another trail-blazing teenager joins me” (TAI IS TWELVE).

      “this is a twelve-year-old scientist with a whole lot of questions – enough to take you to the moon and back” says Natasha, omitting the “self-described” as in the summary below:

      AUDIO: 29min50sec: 1 Sept Repeated: Monday 12.30am, Friday 11.30am: ABC Science Friction: Tai Asks Why – the seventh grader with a cult science podcast and mind for big ideas
      Presented by Natasha Mitchell
      Meet 12-year-old Tai Poole – a 7th grader, ***self-described scientist, and star of his own award-winning and popular podcast Tai Asks Why with Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC).
      Love, climate change, death, dreaming…there is nothing Tai’s tenaciously, voraciously hungry mind won’t take on.
      He joins Natasha Mitchell on Science Friction to talk life, the universe, and everything…
      https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/sciencefriction/tai-of-tai-asks-why/11465132

      very little on Tai in the news, apart from CBC and an FT article. nowhere do I see him described or self-described as a “scientist”.

      2 Dec 2018: Financial Times: Tai Asks Why is a podcast that get to the heart of big questions The series’ young host asks questions that adult presenters might shy away from
      by Fiona Sturges
      “It feels like we’re stuck on this sinking boat,” says the podcast presenter Tai Poole. “The planet’s heating up with no way to stop it. Maybe we need to travel to Mars or something.”
      The final episode of Tai Asks Why, the mini-series from Canada’s CBC network which has been tackling life’s big questions, focuses on climate change. Baffled by the inertia of the older generation, our host consults ***Anthony Del Genio, researcher with the Nasa Goddard Institute for Space Studies, and Catherine Abreu, executive director of Climate Action Network Canada, to assess humanity’s chances of halting global warming. Or, if all else fails, decamping to another planet…

      “It really feels like businessmen and politicians and company CEOs, they’re just too selfish,” he reflects. “They’re going to wait for the other guy to do it because they just want to save money. And nothing gets done.”
      While Del Genio explains how colonisation of other planets is a pipe dream, Abreu gives Tai more cause for optimism, outlining the ways in which ordinary citizens take action, from managing their households sustainably to putting pressure on local politicians…
      https://www.ft.com/content/7b5cb5d8-f48d-11e8-938a-543765795f99

      Tai wants a job with NASA and Del Genio can’t see why not:

      21 Nov 2018: CBC: Tai Asks Why: How will we fix climate change?
      Full episode 21:10
      Tai is finding it hard to have hope.
      He feels like it’s too late and we’re all going to die from the effects of climate change. That’s until he meets a man from NASA…
      Features:
      •Dr. Anthony Del Genio, researcher with the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies
      •Catherine Abreu, executive director of Climate Action Network Canada
      AUDIO: Tai sings about the 3 steps you can take to help fight climate change. This song is by Tai Poole and Johnny Spence. 1:37
      Program Theme music by Johnny Spence
      https://www.cbc.ca/radio/taiaskswhy/how-will-we-fix-climate-change-1.4908790

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        pat

        apart from the Greta start to Natasha’s ABC audio, the CAGW stuff is from 14min11sec to 22min32sec.

        CBC: About Tai Asks Why
        His conversations with everyone from NASA experts to his little brother will expand your mind and touch your heart…
        (scroll down)
        Meet the producers
        ***Veronica Simmonds
        Described by THIS Magazine as a “Sonic Sorceress,” her documentaries have aired on CBC Ideas, Spark and The Doc Project and internationally on ***ABC and BBC. Veronica is the show runner and lead producer on Tai Asks Why…

        Amanda Buckiewicz is a science journalist and filmmaker. Her work has appeared on CBC’s Quirks & Quarks, The Documentary Channel, BBC Earth, Smithsonian and Discovery Channel..
        https://www.cbc.ca/radio/taiaskswhy/about-tai-asks-why-1.4849085

        9 Nov 2018: ABC: Backstory: Top six takeaways from OzPod 2018
        By Audio Studios manager Kellie Riordan
        The ABC’s third annual podcasting conference, Ozpod, was held in Melbourne recently and featured panel discussions and presentations from industry analysts, podcasting platforms, media agencies and podcasters from traditional media and the independent sector.
        Head of ABC Audio Studios Kellie Riordan outlines her takeaways as podcasting continues its rise in Australia….

        4. Kids enjoy podcasts as much as the grown ups…
        ***Canadian Broadcasting Corporation’s Veronica Simmonds spoke about a new podcast she’s produced starring an 11-year-old boy that appeals to adults as well as kids.
        “Tai Asks Why is presented by a child, but it’s not necessarily for kids only. The host is smart and inquisitive and insightful and asks questions of adults that an adult wouldn’t necessarily ask – it’s from a child’s perspective,” Simmonds explained.
        https://www.abc.net.au/news/about/backstory/radio/2018-11-09/six-takeaways-from-ozpod-2018/10477528

        ABC’s OzPod 2019 will take place at The Arts Centre, Melbourne, Thursday, 3rd October 2019.

        is this how ABC should be spending taxpayer money?

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        Greg in NZ

        Natasha ABC says “another trail-blazing teenager joins me” (TAI IS TWELVE).

        So 12 is the ‘new’ teenage? What are these eedjits on! Definitely not this planet.

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        theRealUniverse

        “Tai Asks Why: How will we fix climate change?
        Full episode 21:10
        Tai is finding it hard to have hope.
        He feels like it’s too late and we’re all going to die from the effects of climate change. That’s until he meets a man from NASA…”

        This amounts to child abuse by brainwashing. These kids are probably genuinely scared. Someone should be made responsible.
        So was the man from NASA a psychologist?

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      yarpos

      What on earth are 8 to 16 year olds going to add to any serious discussion that they havent been fed by their parents. What influence is there vast body of knowledge and experience expected to have?

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    robert rosicka

    Just seen a ripper quote on faceache.

    “I’m old enough to remember when paper bags were ruining the environment and plastic bags were the solution” .

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    • #
      TdeF

      And observant enough to know that they fall apart quickly in the environment.

      Also that only 2% of the world lives below the Tropic of Capricorn and we do not have a problem. Partly as our councils ship all our plastic rubbish North of the Tropic anyway.

      And that plastics are not recycled anymore as they cannot afford the electricity thanks to massive Green ripoffs buried in our electricity bills to pay for other people’s windmills and solar panels.

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        theRealUniverse

        All the ocean plastic would come mainly from floods down major rivers washing the excess rubbish into it, especially in the NH. Im sure the true extent of the ‘plastic’ problem is as exaggerated as the temperature data.

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    TdeF

    Avoiding talking about BREXIT, simply because it is a minute to minute affair and anything can happen, there is a point about CO2 which always seems to go missing.

    The physical world is always in equilibrium. It may look chaotic but the balance of things is driven by very simple principles. One of these is the rule which dictates how much dissolved gas is in the air at any time, Henry’s Law.

    The IPCC would have you believe that CO2 is not in equilibrium, or at best that the time to settle back to an equilibrium state is 80 years (half lives are used as you go slower and slower as you approach equilibrium). This 80 year figure is used as a reference figure to calculate the impact of all other gases. Another statement in the IPCC report is that CO2 lasts in the air for thousands of years, if nothing else contradicting the 80 year figure. Neither of these is true.

    We know from the doubling of C14 in 1965 that the time to disappear into the oceans has a half life of 14 years, much, much faster than 80 years. The laboratory here was the whole planet, so it was an accidental experiment measuring CO2 absorption on a global scale over decades, indisputable. Up to that point, everything was conjecture and the estimate in 1956 was a tiny 5 years as there was so little man made CO2 in the air.

    What this proof means is that substantial man made CO2 levels are not possible. The amount of CO2 output by fossil fuel may seem immense to little humans, but it would have to accumulate to be at all significant while all the time it is being exchanged with the oceans and the equilibrium is being restored. Excess CO2 is sucked up by the oceans, a self regulating system.

    So significant man made CO2 levels are not possible. Changing CO2 levels much by burning more or burning less is not possible. The whole windmill and solar and flying and cars and concrete and smelting story is just made up.

    When I read that there is a debate, I have to say there never has been. It would be over in the first sentence, because no one has proven that the 50% increase in CO2 is man made.
    The most I have ever read is that it is a coincidence therefore self evidently.

    What is also true is that the top temperature has hardly changed since 2003 while CO2 has climbed steadily. So even the alleged connection between CO2 and warming is busted.

    Equilibrium rules. They cannot be broken. CO2 is natural and CO2 levels are set naturally. We have no influence at all and mild correlation is not causation.

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      TdeF

      In passing, our fossil fuel CO2 output is so small, the only way the IPCC could argue that it was even significant is to insist it stays in the atmosphere forever.

      Thus fossil fuel CO2 is prohibited from entering the ocean where 98% of all CO2 lives. It must be a very special molecule.

      Oxygen can go in, as fish need to breathe. Oxygen can go out as Phytoplankton produce half the world’s Oxygen, much more than Brazil or Siberia.
      But dreaded man made CO2, despite being highly soluble and highly compressible is forbidden by the IPCC from going into the water,
      except when it produces terrible ‘ocean acidification’.

      So there you have one of the fundamental contradictions of the non science, that CO2 is not allowed to enter the ocean and if it does so, that is a bigger problem?
      This is absurd, contradictory and all made up Green science brought to you by Al Gore and Tim Flannery. It’s the power given to few by a degree in English and no science.

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      Kalm Keith

      :-) :-)

      As Trump would say,

      ” CO2 is part of a Big system, so big that many of us can’t imagine how very very Big it is. Sadly, he would say, human CO2 output is not Big and cannot influence the much Bigger natural system.”

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    beowulf

    Student of solar cycles says drought prediction is a matter of magnetism.
    https://www.theland.com.au/story/6359787/weather-window-truth-or-struth/?cs=4941

    Farmers who are getting sick of the BOM’s hype and fairy tales are turning to Associate professor of paleo climatology, Dr Rob Baker, at the University of New England, Armidale, a student of solar cycles.

    . . . [the sun] is showing signs of deadly calm and that is not a good thing, say observers, who reckon a good pummeling from a burst of radiation jostles the stratosphere in helpful ways.
    All that energy ionises particles of dust which clump and attract moisture, which fall and rise before someone, eventually, gets some rain.
    This forecaster says there remains skepticism for the physics behind solar predictions, particularly from the Bureau of Meteorology and even from within his own university, especially when he suggests this drought has less to do with CO2 levels in the atmosphere and more to do with a lack of ionising cosmic rays.
    Considering that the sun’s changing magnetic field plays a large role in stratospheric ionisation he suggests cosmic ray sensors currently placed in the northern hemisphere should also be located in the south, particularly the mid Pacific Ocean, perhaps Tahiti – a location which also plays a role in tracking the Southern Oscillation Index.

    His free lectures “sold out” at Armidale and Tamworth, with 60 people coming to each venue, while a talk to NSW Young Farmers at Walcha attracted 20 out of 25 members. Dr Baker’s next talks will be at Barraba, Narrabri and Dubbo.

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    pat

    expect plenty more hot air from theirABC:

    4 Sept: ABC: Soaring temperatures in South East Queensland a ‘taste of what’s to come’ this spring
    By Rachel Riga
    Updated about an hour ago
    South East Queensland is expected to get a taste of summer this week due to hotter-than-average temperatures, with some parts of the region set to hit 36 degrees Celsius.
    The fire threat has also increased with residents near Cunungra, north west of the Gold Coast, on alert after a bushfire broke out near Sarabah Road this morning.
    The Bureau of Meteorology (BOM) said Brisbane was expected to reach 33C today, 31C on Thursday and 34C on Friday.

    The maximum temperature in Ipswich, west of Brisbane, is set to be 36C on Friday — 11C above average.
    BOM forecaster Michael Knepp said the temperatures were unusual for early September, with Brisbane city’s average temperature for this time about 25C.
    “It’s rare to see a run of these days with temperatures 8 degrees above average,” he said.
    “This is just sort of taste of what’s to come over the next few months.”

    Mr Knepp said the above-average temperatures are caused by a high-pressure system over southern Queensland, moving to the west…
    Mr Knepp said the next few days would also see large temperatures ranges, with the evenings remaining cool…
    “Even though those temperatures are quite warm in the afternoon, it’s only going to be a few hours, and we are going to get some relief in the overnight hours with it feeling cool when you wake up.”…
    A severe fire weather warning has been issued for the south-east coast, Darling Downs and Granite Belt…READ ALL
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-04/spring-hotter-than-average-weather-south-east-qld/11475590

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      theRealUniverse

      What do you expect from Warmal Globulling.

      20

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        Greg in NZ

        What do you expect from the BooM:
        “31C on Thursday and 34C on Friday” – stop right there!
        Saturday it plunges to 27 and 25 on Sunday then a bone-chilling 23˚C by Wednesday.
        Repent o ye Eek-stinky Rebel protestors – you may catch a cold laying on the road…

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    robert rosicka

    Finally a renewable energy car for me .

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hejJ2DN_Qzw

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    pat

    MSM’s new climate hero!

    4 Sept: SMH: ‘Extremely sceptical’: Atlassian billionaire Cannon-Brookes puts the heat on BHP over climate action
    By Nick Toscano and Clancy Yeates; with Bloomberg
    Mining giant BHP is facing a fresh push from investors, including Mike Cannon-Brookes’ private investment vehicle, to suspend its memberships of business groups accused by activists of undermining the Paris climate change goals.

    Mr Cannon-Brookes’ Grok Ventures, Denmark’s $25 billion MP Pension and the Church of England Pensions Board are among institutional investors holding assets worth about $140 billion who’ve backed a shareholder resolution filed by the Australasian Centre for Corporate Responsibility ahead of BHP’s forthcoming annual meetings.

    In the resolution to be heard at BHP’s upcoming annual general meeting, the group of shareholders praised the company’s commitment to the goals of the Paris climate accord but recommended suspending their membership of lobby groups such as the Minerals Council of Australia (MCA) and the Business Council of Australia (BCA)…
    “Until BHP stops funding for coal lobbyists, we’re extremely sceptical of their environmental or green credentials,” Mr Cannon-Brookes said in the statement…

    Andrew Gray, of Australian Super, said the fund had spoken with BHP about its membership of the Minerals Council of Australia, and was “monitoring” the company’s membership of peak bodies to ensure they were aligned with the Paris agreement on climate change…
    https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/bhp-faces-investor-push-on-climate-lobbying-links-20190903-p52nfj.html

    Atlassian boss Mike Cannon-Brookes calls out BHP on climate
    In-Depth-The Australian – 7 hours ago

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      pat

      4 Sept: news.com.au: AAP: Activists want BHP to quit industry groups
      by Derek Rose
      The five shareholder groups filing the resolution with ACCR are Vision Super; Grok Ventures, the private investment company of Atlassian co-founder Mike Cannon-Brookes and wife Annie; the Church of England Pensions Board; Danish fund MP Pension, and Dutch fund ACTIAM…READ ALL
      https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/breaking-news/activists-want-bhp-to-quit-industry-groups/news-story/60df34b77e4685f1d784f7f0b7c51e1a

      21 Jun: Bloomberg: Australia Billionaire Eyes Renewables Boom in Northern Territory
      By James Thornhill
      Grok Ventures may announce deals soon, manager Kwong-Law says
      Tech entrepreneur Cannon-Brookes is ‘completely committed’
      Australian billionaire Mike Cannon-Brookes’ private investment arm is pursuing opportunities to develop renewable energy in the country’s Northern Territory as it looks to tap the region’s abundant sunshine and proximity to key Asian markets.

      The territory has the makings to become a world leader in clean energy generation and export, Grok Ventures investment manager Jeremy Kwong-Law said on Thursday. He highlighted that hydrogen and solar power transmission via subsea cable are the two clearest pathways to tap the huge Asian market.
      “I’m hoping that within 5 years we’ll be shipping electrons at serious scale. That’s definitely do-able,” Kwong-Law said by phone from Darwin, the capital city of Northern Territory…
      Climate lobby group Beyond Zero Emissions has said the region may unlock about A$2 billion ($1.4 billion) a year by focusing on renewable energy instead of shale gas…

      The speed at which the cost of renewables and energy storage was falling makes the economics of long-term gas projects questionable, Kwong-Law said. “Investing in gas is kind of like investing in CDs in the music industry.”…
      https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-20/australia-billionaire-eyes-renewables-boom-in-northern-territory

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        pat

        this lovefest is worth reading all:

        25 Jan: AFR: Mike Cannon-Brookes: No ‘bulls*it’ from Atlassian’s unconventional tycoon
        by Ben Potter
        We line up at the counter and Cannon-Brookes orders a skinless-chicken laksa…

        In September he bought the Fairfax family mansion Fairwater in exclusive Point Piper…
        And soon after waded into the energy debate by calling “bullshit” on Scott Morrison’s attempt to label electricity generated from coal as “fair dinkum”. As we eat and talk I learn Cannon-Brookes really doesn’t like bullshit.
        Cannon-Brookes, the unconventional tycoon, is a source of endless fascination and my colleagues have loaded me up with questions…

        Energy is less important for a software firm but is something Cannon-Brookes and his wife, Annie Todd, feel passionately about. They’re investing in clean energy finance – and new, less-resource-hungry food production methods – via their family office, Grok Ventures.
        He notes that the rapid evolution of wind and solar energy – now cheaper than the cost of black coal for thermal generation – is outflanking coal technology. The Morrison government’s generation underwriting program is open to coal plant, but Cannon-Brookes is adamant that there is no economic, scientific or environmental rationale for this.

        ***He launched his Fair Dinkum Power campaign in December to urge Australia to embrace not just 100 per cent renewable energy but 200 per cent – and export the surplus to Asia.
        “We have got a couple of very interesting elections coming up in NSW and federally,” he says, with a twinkle in his eye…

        “I think we’ve seen a huge amount of climate and environmental anger,” he says, citing the Victorian state election and the Wentworth by-election.
        “I think you’re crazy if you don’t think it’s going to be a big issue.” And while he’s not saying how, it’s clear he is planning to make a splash when the campaigns get under way…

        Cannon-Brookes is passionate about agtech and has invested in alternative food businesses that aim to produce more food with fewer scarce resources to feed the planet’s nearly 8 billion people…

        Insects and bugs as a food source are a passion of his wife’s that Cannon-Brookes has embraced…
        https://www.afr.com/politics/mike-cannonbrookes-no-bullshit-from-atlassians-unconventional-tycoon-20190123-h1adce

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          OriginalSteve

          What gets me about these clueless meetoo mollenials is if they had half a clue they would realkze they will loose half thier investmwent value if they pursue thier greenist fatasy.

          Can we go back to the adults being in charge please? I miss common sense , not this purile infantile soppy half brained lot who crave media attention.

          Spare me…..

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      Analitik

      Mike Cannon-Brookes is a friend of Elron Musk.
      So he is basically guilty by association of being supporter of frawdulent exploitation of public largesse. His Atlassian involvement, while worthwhile, does not absolve him of abject stupidity.

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    theRealUniverse

    More complete BS on Aunty BS news right now. Greenland ice sheet is record melting. BS article by B(BS) coorp with scientists claiming the whole glacier is melting away at record levels.
    REAL data shows summer melt well within normal limits.
    https://www.iceagenow.info/greenland-glacier-thickening/ [article date Aug 5]

    “Water temperatures in the vicinity of the glacier are now colder than they have been since the mid-1980s.

    Direct quotes from an article published by NASA:

    “NASA research shows that Jakobshavn Glacier, which has been Greenland’s fastest-flowing and fastest-thinning glacier for the last 20 years, has made an unexpected about-face. Jakobshavn is now flowing more slowly, thickening, and advancing toward the ocean instead of retreating farther inland.””

    The BBC guy on the glacier was near where the glacier goes into the sea, yes mate, glaciers do break up near the water edge!

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      Greg in NZ

      Whaddaya mean – rivers flow to the sea? Shocking!
      Greenland’s summit station, ironically called the Greenhouse Station, has bounced between -10 and -20˚C all week, plunging to -30 yesterday and now sitting on a balmy -24˚C.

      http://www.summitcamp.org/status/weather/

      Tell me the BBC guy sailed to Greenland: surely he didn’t fly on one of those toxic, polluting, shameful, dirty, planet-killing aeroplanes? Don’t these BBC repeaters have any morals? Oh, forsooth!

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    pat

    26 Aug: SMH: ‘A disgraceful situation’: blackout risk sparks business energy blast
    By Darren Gray and Nick Toscano
    Australia’s biggest fruit and vegetable grower, Costa Group, has blasted the “disgraceful” state of the nation’s energy market after fears of summer blackouts forced the company to spend millions of dollars on back-up generators to protect its crops around the country.
    Large power users, already struggling with runaway electricity and gas prices, are on edge after the energy market operator warned of an elevated blackout risk for Victoria this summer if repairs to power plants are not completed on time.

    Harry Debney, the head of ASX-listed horticulture giant Costa Group, said the company had installed back-up generators to protect crops from a disruption to energy supplies in a number of states.
    “It’s a disgraceful situation,” Mr Debney said. “We’re so concerned. There’s a lack of reliability, which is even more important than the cost, because if you’re out of production it just really hurts you very badly.”

    His concerns were echoed by ASX-listed Alumina Limited which, along with Alcoa owns the majority of western Victoria’s Portland aluminium smelter, and warned that long-term outages could be damaging. Last week Coca-Cola Amatil boss Alison Watkins likened the situation to one the company would face in developing countries like Papua New Guinea while Bluescope has also raised concerns.

    Costa’s major production facility in Victoria is a mushroom farm on Melbourne’s northern fringe which employs about 600 staff and produces about 20 per cent of the mushrooms consumed in Australia.
    “We put in five huge standby generators, permanently wired-in. It cost us $2.3 million, two-and-a-half years ago…and we’ve done a similar thing in our glasshouses and other operations across the country,” he said.
    “Now we shouldn’t have to do that. We’ve had to step in and guarantee reliability. The cost is the other issue, but if you’re a producer or a manufacturer, the one thing you’ve got to do is ensure you can stay in production.”…

    The AEMO’s warnings have reignited political divisions over energy and what policies are required to bring stability to the network…
    Victoria’s energy minister, Lily D’Ambrosio, said the the country was lacking “any type of federal leadership when it comes to energy policy”.
    “Victoria is investing in renewable energy to put more power into the grid and drive down power prices,” she said.”…
    https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/a-disgraceful-situation-blackout-risk-sparks-business-energy-blast-20190823-p52k5v.html

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      RickWill

      “Victoria is investing in renewable energy to put more power into the grid and drive down power prices,” she said.”…

      These are words of a dingbat. No knowledgeable person would say “put more power into thew grid”. You might connect more generating capacity but the only level of power producing at any time matches precisely the demand of the connected load and the transmission losses. It is not possible to stuff more in than can be taken out during ny time interval.

      The rooftop solar program contrived by the Vic government halved the rate of uptake and sent installers broke. It was a pathetic case of unintended consequences.

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        OriginalSteve

        If we can get Victoriastans glorious leader sacked, the rot would stop quickly.

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        Serp

        Dingbat? Yeah well that’d account for her staggering ignorance of the technical aspects of her Energy portfolio.

        The truth of the matter is that she and the Premier have irretrievably sabotaged Victoria’s energy security for at least the next decade which puts her nearer to being a criminal than simply a dope.

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          Analitik

          Just look at Lily’s background – her social services involvement is what had her appointed to Environment which the id!oit left automatically associate with Energy (the Liberals were similarly stupid under Malcolm Turncoat with Hunt and Frydenberg hold these dual portfolios).

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      yarpos

      Costa had to do what South Australia had to do and what any enity that wants reliable power has to do (including all of us) Meanwhile D’Ambrosio and Andrews flap around in their bubble telling people all is well.

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    pat

    3 Sept: RenewEconomy: Duck! Wind and solar now account for 17% of demand in Australia’s main grid
    by David Leitch
    Ducks and droughts
    During the few weeks that I’ve been away from the desk the electricity transition in Australia has accelerated. As usual when change comes it’s the exact opposite of how T S Elliots “Hollow Men” would have had it as in “not with a bang but a whimper”. Change instead seems to come upon markets dramatically and all of a sudden.

    Everyone knew that the increase in solar was going to force down midday prices. Everyone knew that a large increase in VRE (variable renewables) was going to force down prices for an increasing part of the time.
    And yet probably few of us thought it would happen in late winter 2019. Especially when there was so much coal and gas generation out in Victoria, and Basslink – less reliable than Nick Krygios – threw another wobbly and went off line.
    So for the record here are the hourly average prices for the mainland States during August, 2019…READ ON
    https://reneweconomy.com.au/duck-wind-and-solar-now-account-for-17-of-demand-in-australias-main-grid-47770/

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      RickWill

      Victoria has now surpassed South Australia as the highest cost electricity in the land.

      It seems that SA will not need an interconnector to NSW to increase electricity costs in NSW. My bet is that intermittents in QLD are quite capable of sending a NSW power station to an early demise. Once it goes, NSW prices will reach for the stars.

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        OriginalSteve

        I sincerely hope victoria suffers crippling blackouts, which then drives its communist leader from his position.

        I dont want blackouts per se, but if it removes inglorious Comrade then all good.

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          Analitik

          Sadly, I agree.

          I had hoped the example of South Australia would be enough to correct the ridiculous notion that renewabales could be relied upon for an industrialised economy. Sadly, their grid engineers have done too good a job in quietly using rolling blackouts to keep the South Australian grid from totally collapsing again since the September 2017 incident (aided and abetted by the MSM refusing to report the rolling blackouts).

          Victoria’s rolling blackout in January could not be ignored due to Lily d’Ambrosio’s timely statement denying the possibility of such just half an hour before the Victorian grid engineers were forced to blackout a major (blue ribbon, surprise,surprise) segment of the Melbourne metro grid to keep that grid from total collapse. The costs will mount as the frequency increases with more renewables coming online this year so at some stage, the abject failure of the “transition” to renewables will awake the electorate enough to have Red Dan and his fellow clowns thrown out. But the long term damage is likely to be huge, just as the case has been with South Australia.

          In the short term, my generator will at least keep our household refrigerator and freezer running when we blackout again so I can at least keep cool with chilled drinks until the power is restored.

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    Dennis

    According to leftist propaganda channels the world’s largest interconnected electricity grid, here in Australia, must be replaced or upgraded because, so the renewable fans claim, wind and solar farms energy supply cannot be handled with the existing transmission lines. So many billions of dollars must be spent to upgrade the grid.

    Where is this nonsense coming from and what is the political purpose?

    Even a climate change scientologist must be smart enough to understand that most, as in 70-80 per cent of baseload electricity is generated by power stations, and that wind and solar contribute intermittently, unreliably, mostly unpredictably, at best 10-12 per cent averaged over months, capacity factor. And that more often than not the so called renewables supply less than 5 per cent.

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      RickWill

      The intermittent generator proponents hold a firm belief that so-called curtailment is the result of poor connectivity in the National Grid. By increasing the capacity of interconnections there would never be a need to curtail.

      The reason they have arrived at this is that all their assessments are based on capacity factors and a strong belief in the geographical diversity fairy. If there is enough connected generation to supply all the energy needed then diversity means it will all work out perfectly. What they fail to recognised is that the sun never shines anywhere on Australia at midnight AEST. AND the wind tends to blow or not over the eastern states at the same time.

      Given that capacity factors average about 25%, it would be reasonable that strengthening the grid by a factor of 4 would solve all the problems of curtailment. For example, when the wind blows in SA but the sun is not shining in Cairns, power can be exported from SA to Cairns. This then brings in that ugly notion of transmission losses and no intermittent generator proponent wants to lose income by using THEIR energy to supply the losses. In reality the situation is much worse than even this because diversity delivers next to nothing. There will be times when the intermittent generators have propensity to produce maybe 8 times what is required and other times when they all produce zero. That is when the need for storage becomes obvious and the intermittent generator proponents will expect others to provide that so they can get paid for their uneconomic intermittent output. They will continue to argue that they have the cheapest energy; only true if the cost of additional transmission capacity is passed onto others; the cost of additional transmission losses are passed onto others and the vast amount of energy storage needed to ensure dispatch able energy is also passed onto others.

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    Furiously curious

    This is going to cause a bit of controversy, for all sides. Everyone will have plenty to love/hate. They seem to be struggling to get it out.
    https://www.nonfictionfilm.com/news/planet-of-the-humans-possibly-most-bracing-environmental-documentary-ever-made-premieres-at-traverse-city-film-festival

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      theRealUniverse

      Cant bear to watch, Id need psychiatric help afterwards.
      These guys make me mad..
      “Gibbs, an environmentalist, film producer and composer who has worked on several of Moore’s documentaries, describes himself as “worried sick” about climate change. ”
      I think HE needs to see an analyst , as the yanks say.

      Full of lunacy and scaremongering hobgoblins, this type of doc is DESIGNED to scare the hell out of ‘us’ as in the sheeple, make us conform to the agenda and the rest of the Orwellian products of big gov.

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      Serp

      I shall continue to put doubt in the minds of young CAGW acolytes by maintaining that in the Roman Warm Period Hannibal found no great difficulty in getting his elephants over the alps in virtue of there being much less snow and ice than obtains today; think about it, the world’s all time pre-eminent military campaigner wouldn’t have taken elephants if there hadn’t been a suitable route.

      Perhaps were a more reliable reference than a Grauniad science story cited I’d pull my head in.

      I look forward to the same gang controverting the Viking settlement of Greenland in the Medieval Warm Period which is the second leg of my standard attack on today’s fatuous climate dogma.

      Hannibal, who he? is the usual response in our contemporary New Dark Age but thanks to Jackie French’s They Came On Viking Ships the fact of Greenland’s settlement is not unknown to Australian youth.

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    Bulldust

    It seems we are baby steps away from full blown ecoterrorism:

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-03/climate-change-breaking-the-law-extinction-rebellion/11475060

    If the courts set a precedent with this claim then we are lost.

    BTW I couldn’t force myself to read past the “statue” in reference to the law. Is no one proof-reading the garbage reporting at auntie?

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      OriginalSteve

      Australia will be “California-ed” if they win.

      I heard that these days they are dropping the english on some public facing web sites from year 11 to year 7 standard.

      Says a lot i think.

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    David Maddison

    You know it must be bad if even The Age thinks it’s bad.

    QUOTE The threat of blackouts in Victoria has sparked alarm from some of the nation’s biggest businesses with Coca Cola Amatil boss Alison Watkins comparing the situation to challenges it usually faced in developing countries.

    https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/business-leaders-sound-alarm-over-looming-energy-threats-20190822-p52jtt.html

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    robert rosicka

    Facebook now put qualifiers under any anti CAGW story under the guise of fact check , I note they don’t do the same when its alarmist rubbish .

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    Democracy hanging on by a thread. Alinsky leftist tactics undermining western institutions, elections and referendums don’t count, attempts to by-pass the will of the people, depose Trump, balk Brexit, courts not observing constitutional laws, google and medja subverting free speech,

    hanging on

    by
    the

    skin

    of

    our

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    mem

    According to leftist propaganda channels the world’s largest interconnected electricity grid, here in Australia, must be replaced or upgraded because, so the renewable fans claim, wind and solar farms energy supply cannot be handled with the existing transmission lines. So many billions of dollars must be spent to upgrade the grid.

    Where is this nonsense coming from and what is the political purpose?

    The CMFEU as its jobs for boys and money in pockets.And Daniel Andrews rides on the wave. If you look at any shopping strip in Melbourne and count the the number “closed” signs you will start to understand what is happening. People and businesses in Victoria can’t afford the service charges (e;electricity, gas.water,rates etc). We are going bust at the rate of knots and the government is hiding it all with borrowed money from China.

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      Kalm Keith

      I know of one employer who has to house about 30 people max in an office and the electricity charges are about $30,000 pa.
      No heavy machinery involved, just office air conditioning and kettle and microwave oven.
      Just imagine running a smallgoods store with 24 >< 7 refrigeration.

      Then there's the aluminum smelters.

      Even offices may be better off working from Vietnam.

      KK

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    TdeF

    And then there’s the business of being a denier.

    I find that’s hard as nothing is proven. You cannot deny something which is not proven. So that’s a puzzle.

    The argument that the CO2 increase is man made has no proof at all, simply rough correlation presented as absolute proof. Except it isn’t.

    The idea that greenhouse gases keep the world warm and then the idea that CO2 is far more important than water. And the idea that increasing CO2 is much worse, when that isn’t true.

    The one which is completely unexplained is ‘extreme events’ which says that while the air may not warm significantly, everything is much worse. No one even bothers to explain that one.

    So that makes me a denier. Of what?

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    yarpos

    There was an extremely emotive , pearl clutching letter to the editor in our local newspaper along the lines of “the arctic and the amazon are burning, panic now!” Usually I just roll my eyes and move on but I couldnt let it go. Here is my response submission, it will be interesting to see if it ever make sthe light of day:

    “Just a response to the hyperbole laden rant that was recently published in the standard with the classic line that both Arctic and the Amazon are burning.

    The Arctic cant burn really , it only takes a couple of seconds thought to work that out. There are fires above the Arctic circle in summer, but that is not unusual especially in Russia. Yes the Amazon has fires at the moment, it burns every summer just like we do. The current fires are about mid range in terms of what they normally experience.

    Why is it a big deal this time ? Well there is a UN climate conference coming up in New York and the hysteria machine is being wound in support of the inevitable apocalyptic predictions. Some among us will remember the 1970s Ice Age and the end of oil also. Watch the timetable for any of these event especially the UN/IPCC conferences and you will find there will be a big uptick in alarmist articles.

    No matter how dire the predictions , it of course wont stop thousands of them flying to New York or some other desirable location (these conferences never happen in the 3rd world) to stay in 5 star hotels and lecture us from their self annointed high moral ground about fossil fuel usage. Its laughable.

    Finally the Amazon rainforests are not the “lungs of the Earth” any more than Tasmania is “the battery of the Nation” Just spend 10 minutes doing a little research. Scratch below the slogans and virtue signalling and you will find there is a whole other world governed by reality, physics and engineering.

    Get ready for your “renewables” powered summer. I hope you have your generators available and tested, its going to get interesting.”

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    Excellent Yarpos. We live in a real world governed by physics, not a virtual world governed by slogans from those with agendas.

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    Carp

    Pommies, prepare to give up your car or van.

    “In the long-term, widespread personal vehicle ownership does not appear to be compatible with significant decarbonisation. The Government should not aim to achieve emissions reductions simply by replacing existing vehicles with lower-emissions versions”.

    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmsctech/1454/145403.htm

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      yarpos

      The “progressive” Poms seem intent in returning to their past of clinging to parochial little centres and “pub culture” with the populace wondering what goes on outside of horse and cart range. I dont think many will sign up for that.

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