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Submission due for the West Australian EPA on Monday

The West Australian EPA is calling for submissions by Monday Sept 2.

Given the timeframe, this is a draft post — just to flag this and start a discussion. Suggestions welcome. More coming Monday.

In March the WA EPA astonished the state by suddenly declaring that all new projects would need to “demonstrate how they would offset all emissions from their developments.” After an outcry these were withdrawn, but the EPA still wants them and are calling for submissions.

The requirements were so drastic they would affect the whole country just because of the size and the revenue lost from the WA projects. Not to mention that if the WA EPA gets away with this scientifically empty power grab, other EPA’s will follow…

Tens of billions of dollars in new resource projects will be at risk after Western Australia’s Environmental Protection Authority announced tough new measures around carbon dioxide emissions.

The new regulations will affect planned projects such as Woodside Petroleum’s $US11 billion ($15.6bn) Scarborough gas project and its $US20.5bn Browse development, as well as existing projects such as the $US34bn Wheatstone LNG plant and the $US54bn Gorgon LNG plant.          — Paul Garvey, The Australian.

My post at the time: First they came for the coal industry, now for oil and gas: West Australian EPA decides state must meet “Paris” alone

The EPA is made up of five members appointed by the minister. It’s a QANGO, paid by the government, dependent on the government, but supposedly independent of it. It makes recommendations regarding the approval of new projects in the state but the government can choose to do something different. The problem is though, that companies need to jump through the hoops (which costs money and time), and it’s harder for a government to say “Yes” if the EPA says “No”. Plus it’s another PR win for the religion of climate change. More paid press releases.

  • How do we predict or assess the “environmental benefits”: The EPA are only supposed to be considering the environment, not the economy, and they’re only supposed to be considering Western Australia, not the world. It seems to me that the hardest point for them to justify is how cutting emissions in a state of 2.6 million people or 0.3% of the worlds population will have any measurable outcome on the West Australian environment.
  • Their entire assessment of “likely harm”comes from generic quotes and Argument from Authority from the CSIRO, BOM and the unaudited foreign committee. Who is responsible for checking these?
  • The EPA needs to define what a “reasonable” measure is. If the rest of the world is doing almost nothing, is it reasonable for West Australian companies to pay exorbitant fees to allay emissions  which will drive them out of business? And emissions that will just be emitted elsewhere and which will have no measurable effect to the fourth decimal place on the temperature of WA?
  • The EPA document is poorly researched — it argues that “It is rapidly becoming standard international practice for greenhouse gas emissions to be considered by regulatory agencies”. Obviously the EPA is unaware that of what is happening in Russia, China, Indonesia, India, Africa, Brazil or the USA. Do they realize Donald Trump won?

On that basis the EPA are calling for submissions and promising to publish them and their responses. (That way they can say they consulted, even if they ignore everything that’s too hard). Nonetheless, it’s still worth putting in a submission Monday. Which I will. This post is here to remind others that’s it due, ask for suggestions, and offer to help.

Info:    Greenhouse Gas Consultation – Background Paper

The previous greenhouse gas guidelines released in March and withdrawn:

Key points in the Background Paper:

The EPA’s main role to protect the environment and abate pollution. Despite that, their entire assessment of “likely harm” comes from generic quotes from the CSIRO and the unaudited foreign committee:

How serious are the projected environmental impacts of further greenhouse gas emissions?

There is now broad community concern that greenhouse gas emissions from human activity are driving changes to our climate and the scientific data and analyses underpinning these concerns are robust and compelling.

The 2018 State of the Climate Report from the Bureau of Meteorology and the CSIRO noted that concentrations of all the major long-lived greenhouse gases in the atmosphere continue to increase, with carbon dioxide concentrations rising above 400 ppm since 2016 and the carbon dioxide equivalent of all greenhouse gases reaching 500 ppm for the first time in at least 800 000 years. Emissions from the burning of fossil fuels continue to increase and are the main contributor to the observed growth in atmospheric carbon dioxide. The report details the changes to our climate that have already taken place.

The October 2018 Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s Special Report on Global Warming of 1.5°C describes what is at stake if we do not stay well below a 2 degree temperature increase, and the likely degree of emissions reductions that would be required to achieve this. Taken together, this information is of concern and cannot be dismissed as speculative or incorrect.

Define “Reasonable”?

The EPA must have regard for the principles (s.4A) that those who generate pollution and waste should bear the cost of containment, avoidance or abatement; and that all reasonable and practicable measures should be taken to minimise the generation of waste and its discharge into the environment.

We’re supposed to kill industry because of the Paris agreement?:

Because greenhouse gas emissions affect local climate through global processes, effective environmental protection requires international recognition of responsibilities by national governments. This recognition is currently embodied in the 2015 Paris Agreement, in which 195 nations agreed to emissions reductions necessary to keep the global increase in temperature this century to below 2 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial levels, and to pursue efforts to even further limit the temperature increase to 1.5 degree.

It must “regard” three principles:

  1. The precautionary principle — the wholly unscientific idea that dangers we can’t be sure of must be avoided, and which is only selectively applied to politically convenient issues.
  2. The principle of intergenerational equity.
  3. The polluter pays principle.

The EPA is also supposed to consider the “means” of protecting the environment. So does that carbon trading idea work? Do carbon credits help Australia when they drive our clean industries over to China?

Sorry about the rough nature of this post, but suggestions are welcome.

 

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Rating: 9.8/10 (41 votes cast)
Submission due for the West Australian EPA on Monday, 9.8 out of 10 based on 41 ratings

125 comments to Submission due for the West Australian EPA on Monday

  • #
    Kneel

    Perhaps more pertinently, if, as I believe is the case, Australia is a net sink for CO2, then why do we need to “do more”? In that case, we’re already a “dumping ground” for other countries pollution! Why aren’t we being paid for this, instead of being told we have to buy “offsets” from overseas?

    210

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      The Environment Protection Agency is set up to
      Protect the Western Australian Environment
      But by it has adopted an ideology
      That it’s job is to save the whole planet
      And for this it has not legislative authority
      Nor even any state government go ahead.
      The EPA has indeed gone mad.
      In a major display of HUBRIS.
      Quick & Simple Solution :
      Sack the bastards
      Before they drive the rest of WA mad .
      As well

      200

  • #
    ivan

    It sounds to that the EPA needs to be disbanded just like the CCC in the UK. At least President Trump had the right idea and put a non climate change enthusiast in charge of getting their EPA back on the right path.

    Not knowing the politics in WA I wonder if something like that move of President Trump might be applied in this case.

    150

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      So a govt agency is tasked with destroying the economy…..thats seriosly messed up.

      170

    • #

      WA has a Labor Premier who on Thursday — our hottest winter day on record — suddenly said the state now has a zero emissions by 2050 target. Did they rush it to fit the “hot” news story. Did they Bury it under the discussion of the euthanasia legislation? Did they just think it up that day?

      Odds of him appointing anyone outside the religion

      200

      • #
        Lionell Griffith

        I believe you know that consequences have no impact upon the climalarmests thinking. All they need to do is claim they have something they call “good intentions”. Their so called “good intentions” will absolve them of any blame for any consequences of their wishes, whims, or commands no matter what the consequence. Or so they pretend.

        I understand that you have to try. I praise you for your willingness and stamina. Unfortunately, they are the rock of Sisyphus. If moved to the top of the hill, they will break free and roll to the bottom – unchanged. No matter how many times you roll them to the top. Once again, we see that by doing the same thing and expecting a different result is not a path to success.

        I do know that we must do something very different. I don’t know what that is beyond my suggestion to stop feeding them. There may be something else that could be done. I hope you can find it and do it.

        130

      • #
        ivan

        Jo, it is hard for me to understand what happened to the countries leadership (I lived in Sydney from late 50s to mid 70s) I saw Robert Menzies pushing the country forward but since then the leadership has gone backwards. It would appear that no one has the guts to tell the UN to mind its own business, they just listen and do as they are told (who is paying who?) like good little sheep.

        150

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        You can see pollies have signed up to the global warming pagan religion……

        Some people sometimes get all wound up about Christianity and its “proximity” to govt, yet this new occult pagan climate cult religion is far more insidious and dangerous than christianity could ever be, and is being forced down peoples throats, at the same time PC is crippling freedom of speech and removing our right to protest all forms of unnatuaral acts that our children are exposed to.

        This is a package deal, at its core is darkness.

        110

      • #
        Graeme#4

        Wonder when the WA state govt legislated a 2050 target date? First I’ve heard of it.

        30

        • #
          GD

          Wonder when the WA state govt legislated a 2050 target date?

          Good luck with that, WA. You’ll soon be purchasing diesel generators to keep the power on.

          Will this madness never stop?

          30

          • #

            Being a small grid for 2 milion WA is particularly vulnerable to the growth of random power. We have no interconnectors. Indeed most of the land area is serviced by microgrids. The main SWIS runs from Kalbarri to Kalgoorlie to Albany. About 600km N S E of Perth. Everything else is micro.

            WA just adopted the same target as all the other states which have lower per capita emissions (bar QLD) and which are all interconnected.

            Welcome to the live experiment.

            00

  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    The precautionary principle – let’s throw away the Hippocratic Oath as well
    The principle of intergenerational equity – let’s bring in inheritance tax and death duties
    The polluter pays principle – let’s treat the environment as a dump, just like coal power does

    Have at it

    030

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      Are you O.K.?

      170

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Are you saying we should apply the 3 principles?

        023

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          No its just that you just dont get the human race….

          170

          • #
            Kinky Keith

            Well put.
            How can you live in a community environment and be unaware or uninterested in how it works and supports everyone.

            60

        • #
          Kinky Keith

          No it’s not that. It’s just that looking at all of your comments there’s something about them: it’s as though you are marking time, not all that interested in moving your understanding forward, just inventing a jumble of words that uses a few key words from the comment you are responding to.

          It’s very noticeable.

          230

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            I’ll resist the obvious response, but I will say this – each response to to the epa must include those 3 principles, so you can guess what will happen if that is found lacking when the response is evaluated. It does not matter if you personally don’t believe in those principles, you have to address them in a manner satisfactory to the epa.

            This sets the bar incredibly high for someone like JoNova, (as an example) and should be seen, rightly, in my view, as an attempt to stifle her opinion

            018

            • #
              Kinky Keith

              Read my comment below about the hushed up cyanide liberation in Newcastle: brought to our city by the nsw epa.

              90

            • #
              AndyG55

              On the contrary

              I have covered the precautionary principle, NOT destroying our manufacturing and electricity production. The continued release of sequestered CO2 is also highly necessary.

              Intergenerational equity is being destroyed by the Green agenda’s destruction of modern society.

              Wind and Solar should pay heavily for the massive pollution they create in China, and the wanton destruction of the avian environment.

              220

            • #

              Set the bar high for me? Hardly… read my first reply to them back in March. This EPA pagan witchcraft guide would hurt the environment. The only countries that can afford to have national parks and reserves and look after them are rich countries that produce a lot of CO2. Destroy the economy and raze the wilderness.

              180

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Lets hope.

                012

              • #
                AndyG55

                Jo says “Destroy the economy and raze the wilderness.”

                and PF says “Lets hope”

                WOW.. the real PF steps forth.

                Not only is he supporting an agenda that wants to destroy society, he also wants to destroy the economy and the wilderness.

                What a sad, evil little ****

                140

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          I gather my comment about your stupidity has been censored.

          And you think that you are poorly treated.

          60

    • #
      AndyG55

      The precautionary principle says we should be building new dispatchable power to cope with the energy needs of the coming cooling trend.

      The precautionary principle says we should NOT be decimating the stability of our electrical supply systems with third rate intermittent, unreliable non-power..

      You are CLUELESS about the “precautionary principle” that you are attempting to use as a crutch for your abject lack of any actual evidence of anything.

      Coal power produces FAR LESS real pollution that wind or solar.

      Coal fired power has the MASSIVE BENEFIT of giving plant food to feed the world.

      200

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        And heavy metals, sulphur dioxide, fly ash…. all good for the environment/sarc off

        021

        • #
          Graeme#4

          I’m not going to be diverted from the main topic here Peter, but if you can refer me to just one EPA environmental report that shows a current coal power station exceeding its environmental limits, then please advise the link.

          170

          • #
            • #
              Kinky Keith

              The nsw epa.

              That epa which allowed dredging in Newcastle harbour to liberate cyanide that ran down river, killing fish, sea life and birds on the way to Stockton beach? Where people swimming at Stockton couldn’t understand why they were itching all over. Cyanide.
              The nsw epa that recently gave a coal fired power station permission to pollute because it would cost too much to replace the worn out pollution control equipment?

              That nsw epa, the totally bought, discredited one?

              And as for the authoritative SMH, the less said the better.

              And unsurprisingly the greens didn’t say boo while all of this was going on.

              ?

              130

            • #
              AndyG55

              LOL, so funny.. !!

              PF yet again post things he hasn’t read

              Did you see the “control efficiencies”, all over 99.9%

              Poor PF, You truly are CLUELESS !!!

              150

            • #
              AndyG55

              And you can basically guarantee that anything Peter Hannam writes is a load of twisted and mutilated garbage.

              140

            • #
              Graeme#4

              I did say an EPA report Peter. An official government report. Yet you refer me to an article, in the SMH no less.

              130

              • #
                Graeme#4

                Ok, so you referenced some EPA reports. But did they say that the coal power stations were doing anything wrong? If they didn’t, then why did you attempt to bury me in unrelated reports? I asked for a report that showed a coal power station exceeding its limits. Which report of the many referenced actually says that?

                150

              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                The limits set by our epa are less than those set in China, point one. point 2, not all pollutants are controlled. As KK points out, in his post about cyanide.

                013

              • #
                AndyG55

                99.9% reduction , PF

                Numbers are beyond you, aren’t they.

                Proven WRONG, you double-down on stupid, yet again.

                100

              • #
                AndyG55

                FAR more cyanide used in production of wind turbines and solar panels.

                And it will linger forever, because the subsidy farmers won’t clean up their mess.

                Nothing comes from coal that wasn’t already in the ground.

                Wind and solar manufacturing requires the production of huge quantities of very toxic materials.

                130

              • #
                Kinky Keith

                Andy,
                The cyanide was dumped near the location of the fourth coal loader about 50 years ago as part of an ongoing production line. A lot of it. After it stopped the area was covered by river silt and forgotten about.

                When excavation work was commenced a few years ago it’s obvious that one of two things happened:
                Either:
                1. The NSW EPA “forgot” to require chemical sampling of the compacted mud being disturbed, or
                2. The investigation was done, but the results were “lost” in a file somewhere.

                it probably cost a fair bit of money.

                All decommissioned industrial areas in Newcastle have had analyses and reports on the vacated land.
                Had analyses been available it would have been a pre-condition that expensive barricades be used during preparation work and silt removed to land based isolation area.
                Regular harbour dredging is routinely taken out to sea and dumped. ?
                This is the sort of EPA that operates in China during the extraction and prep work for renewable panels and turbine magnets.
                In this Hunter river event it’s interesting that no greens were aroused to action over what was quite a significant pollution events.

                . epa

                . epa. $$ epa

                . epa. epa. epa. epa

                30

            • #
              Graeme#4

              Well I looked at the EPA docs you referenced Peter. If you had done the same, you would have found that the coal power stations by and large comply with their EPLs. If you want a specific reference (which is what I asked you for), then look at EPA report 18P0700, Section 3, “Summary of Key Findings”, which clearly indicates that the power stations ARE compliant. The words “Extensive Compliance” are used by the EPA. In fact, the NSW EPA noted that “Some pollutant concentrations consistently trend well below the specified limits.”
              So perhaps you come forth with the next baseless assertion, please check your facts first.

              90

        • #
          Bill in Oz

          Got some in your eye Peter
          There in Western Australian ?

          80

        • #
          AndyG55

          Very few heavy metal from a modern power station, basically zero sulphur,

          flyash is so valuable that one company has locked up all the resource.

          It is all around you, it is used in many building and construction products.

          Even the so-called “waste” products of coal fired power are in great demand, either by humans or by nature.

          Now lets talk about all the horrendous chemicals needed to extract rare metals for wind turbine magnets, and all the highly toxic chemicals in solar panels.

          Lets talk about what wind turbine and solar power produce. They give and produce absolutely nothing but highly erratic electricity,

          … they take, take, take.. like any good little socialist agenda does.

          230

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            Not true Andy, Bayswater, which is a hele has to use second grade coal, as all the good stuff is exported. The result is less efficiency and more emissions and dirtier fly ash.

            https://www.afr.com/opinion/why-is-australia-the-only-place-in-asia-where-hele-coal-generation-isnt-clean-20170612-gwpcob

            016

            • #
              AndyG55

              Denial that flyash is used everywhere, and that CO2 emissions are totally beneficial.

              99.9% reduction in every listed substance, by your own links, PF

              Not any comment about the huge amounts of very toxic chemicals used in the production of wind and solar.

              Why is that?

              Coal is FAR cleaner.

              Remain in DENIAL, its all you have.

              120

            • #

              Ah, Peter Fitzroy, you mendacious terd.

              Bayswater is not a HELE coal fired power plant at all.

              You can’t even read. I’ve lost count of the number of times I have detailed the only HELE’s in Australia, and Bayswater is NOT one of them.

              Bayswater uses the coal mined directly at the same site of the plant. It doesn’t use ‘special’ coal while the ‘good stuff’ is sent off for export.

              Seriously, Peter Fitzroy, you need to look in other places other than those which reinforce your religion. See how reading the incorrect facts have caused you to tell lie$.

              You need to apologise here for telling lie$ and getting caught out.

              Tony.

              190

              • #

                Yeah look, even I know that Peter Fitzroy won’t bother to come back and apologise for getting it so catastrophically wrong.

                Those six HELE Units at four plants, all of them SuperCritical, (so one step below the more recent and more efficient USC HELE plants) burn coal from their nearby coal mines, all owned by the plant’s operators, so in three cases the Queensland State Government, the two Units at Callide C, and the single Units at Tarong North, and at Kogan Creek, and the two Units at the privately owned Millmerran plant.

                ALL that burned coal is from those Queensland Basins, renowned around the World as the cleanest coal there is.

                So, Peter Fitzroy is wrong again about Australian HELE plants. In his efforts to only read information which confirms his religion, he conveniently neglects to find the truth, and just writes whatever lie$ he wants to, and then, when caught out, just ignores it, or changes the subject.

                We’re used to it now, and being called a li@r by him, as he regularly does to most of us, means nothing really.

                Tony.

                150

              • #
                sophocles

                Atta boy, Tony.

                I don’t think Peter’s problem is reading per sé but comprehension — they are two separate skills.

                20

          • #
            Graeme#4

            Absolutely correct Andy. In fact a CSIRO of waste ash makes the statement “The environmental impact of the utilisation of Australian thermal coals in relation to air emissions of trace elements and the leaching of trace elements from waste ash is considered to be normal.”
            Ref: https://www.acarp.com.au/Media/ACARP-WP-3-TraceElementsinCoal.pdf
            PF and I have discussed this subject before, yet he still continues to make these incorrect statements.

            80

      • #
        Kinky Keith

        Andy, “the coming cooling trend”?

        I would have thought that continental USA, not to mention Canada, and northern Russia had been in the cooling trend for a few years now. They’ve had it tough.

        As for “preparing” for it by building power stations, I don’t think that government has the capacity to act for the future. We’re stuffed.

        100

    • #
      Graeme#4

      May I refer readers to a very good article on the Precautionary Principle by Neil Lock and how it has been subverted over the last 35 years:
      https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/01/22/on-the-precautionary-principle/

      80

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      Utter bloody speculative rubbish.

      31

    • #
      AndyG55

      “The principle of intergenerational equity”

      If we keep destroying Australia’s prosperity by forcing manufacturing and other jobs out because of a wacky, anti-science anti-CO2 agenda…. cow-towing to the abject nonsense of the climate change farce…

      … the next generations will see a great step backwards in what is available in their lives.

      The Green agenda destroys any hope of actual progress and development.

      150

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Isn’t death duties an Inheritance tax?

      I hope that your parents are both well, and capable of surviving the shock of you telling them that you don’t want anything left to you, but it should be given to the State government to spend (as they will) on whatever is the latest poll favourate of the WOKE** generation.

      **WOKE – With Out Knowledge or Experience.

      150

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Death duties apply to the estate. Inheritance tax applies to the disbursement of the estate.

        012

        • #
          Geoffrey Williams

          Please go away Fitzy we really don’t need your hapless commments.
          You are in just an annoyance and your contribution here is zilch.
          GeoffW

          20

    • #
      GD

      let’s treat the environment as a dump, just like coal power does

      Oh, for FS!

      80

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      I see that apart from Andy, none of you really understand my comment.

      011

      • #
        AndyG55

        You certainly didn’t.

        You were just yapping, hoping for a response.

        60

      • #
        AndyG55

        I’ve learnt to interpret gibberish.

        70

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          One small step

          08

          • #
            AndyG55

            But its all you have ever achieved.

            BACKWARDS, then you trip and land on your ar*e with a squishing sound.

            Maybe, one day in several years time, you will progress passed writing utter gibberish.

            .
            .
            .
            Nah. Not going to happen.

            80

          • #
            AndyG55

            Maybe you should try to learn a new language, PF.

            One that includes words like “science”, logic”, “reality” and “maths”… once you have figured out what they actually are.

            In the mean time, I will do my best to interpret your gibberish.

            70

  • #
    Rob

    We are observers looking on as Australia is slowly shuting down.
    Electricity – get it while you can …
    Heavy industry going, going, gone …
    Fishing industry disappearing …
    Mining bogged down in red tape … too hard, going, going gone …
    Timber industry … gone
    Agriculural industry … murdering its participants
    Australia’s 3 biggest cities … beyond redemption
    Tourism – being destroyed by activist negativity
    EPA = code for freezing anything that is moving
    Policians – in a bubble.

    230

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      A few of us who are libertarians were discussing the coming revolutiin in America.

      The general thought was that the Left will finally push the silent majority ( right wing and armed ) and will get thoroughly routed in the process. Even if the Left detonated a nuke in a US city, it wont stop the rout, and would continue until all the communists and rabble had been deported, despatched or imprisoned.

      Even if the Left got UN foreign troops in for “peacekeeping” , they could be fair game too.

      Our thouhts were the Left has seriously underestinated the steely resolve of righteous anger.

      Interesting times.

      90

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        Nonsense Steve.

        A fantasy by the Left. The Right own guns, the Left don’t. The Military will line up behind Trump for sure.
        Nor need there be much blood shed, just cut the electricity supply lines to California, New York etc. They won’t last 3 days without their i-phones etc. (let alone the Tofu going rancid in the refrigerator).

        140

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Its a bit more complex than that. You also have foreigner wild cards and gangs…..the military cant be everywhere at the same time either.

          01

        • #
          glen Michel

          In a good, better world the People should take back Government. This decay must be resolved.

          40

          • #
            glen Michel

            In other words,things don’t stay the same forever.

            20

            • #
              OriginalSteve

              I hope not…the US military industrial complex are insane…they seem to want to pick a fight with the chinese and russians.

              The russians have thr ability and resolve to carry out a military first strike on the US soil if they truly believe they are in danger. The US will not survive if they do.

              12

      • #
        Richard Ilfeld

        American geography will play a role. In most of geographic America, the left is hopelessly outnumbered.
        It is unwise to look at, say, a 40% Democratic vote and assume side more or less equal. It takes generations for
        voting patterns to change. There are legions of small town and rural “Democrats” who are horrified by urban
        liberal policies, but don’t find them relevant to local life.
        One example might be a small manufacturing town, in say, Wisconsin. The vote might be 50- 50. But all the Mfrs in town have to close down
        at the start of deer season. A vote on firearms would be 90-10. A vote on gender fluidity would be 95-5. A vote on any other urban liberal dream would be
        similar.
        Look at a county by county map of the last election. The liberal “power” is very concentrated n the cities and along the coasts.
        We are currently highly bifurcated into urban and rural realms, and becoming more so.
        In many states there is high tension between the urban left and the “downstate” or “upstate” population…..Illinois is a great example.
        I think if a vote could be held most states could get majority in rural counties to secede from their urban centers.
        We are far less than a hundred years out from county militia arming up and going to war.
        I think we’ll settle on a return to federalism; the ones size fits all national regime is breaking down here.
        OF this seems to be also a risk, as some states will be crazy.
        Americans are migrating internally at very high rates, and that is likely to shape the eventual answers.

        50

        • #
          PeterPetrum

          Yes, Richard, after the last Presidential election that saw Trump gain the Presidency I was fascinated to see a comparison between the Electoral College results by State and the map of the Counties.

          Looking at the Electoral map states such as NY and California were Blue, but when you looked at a map of California Counties it was almost all Red (Republican) with islands of Democrat Blue in San Diego, LA and San Francisco. It was surely the population density of these three cities that got the state over the Democrat line.

          Looking at the US as a whole on the County map, there was very little Blue, mainly on the big coastal cities on both coasts.

          Considering that California and its cities are now “Sactuary” areas, with Californian taxpayers paying for illegal immigrants to live and get free medical attention, and to sleep and defecate on the pavements, it will be interesting to see how the “Quiet Americans” in this State vote the next time!

          Go Trump!

          30

    • #
      GD

      We are observers looking on as Australia is slowly shutting down.

      Adding to your points:

      Importing people who hate our culture but love our welfare system.

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    Pssst. The manipulators know it’s all tripe, know it’s pure damage, but know to start here because Australia is the best crash dummy. We’re just open enough, just conformist enough, and our media are so centralised we can be made to cop anything.

    Converting a frontier resource region into a bureaucratised surveillance state where guilt is attached to the slightest activity…what could be better if you are a sicko globalist?

    What’s it all for? Hogging and restricting resources in preparation for the Holocene’s wind-down?

    I reckon it comes down to emotion. The Undead resent the living. They hate you.
    https://tinyurl.com/yxa8e5lb
    It wants you gone.

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    David Wojick

    I would start by challenging this statement:
    “Taken together, this information is of concern and cannot be dismissed as speculative or incorrect.”

    These claims have in fact been widely challenged as speculative and incorrect. The 350 or so videos in my Climate Change Debate Education collection do exactly that.
    http://ccdedu.blogspot.com

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    Bill in Oz

    Here is my submission to the WA state government”
    “SACK THE STUPID BASTARDS AT THE EPA ”
    That’s all.
    Nothing else needs to be said or done

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    Bill in Oz

    And reposted again so more folk know !
    Does anyone commenting or reading here, live anywhere near
    Barabra in the New England area of NSW ?
    The BOM’s weather station there was moved in 2010-18
    From a very uncommpliant site
    To a new site 600 meters North.
    Ken at Ken’s Kingdom needs photos of the new site
    To assess it’s compliance with
    BOM’s own official guidelines.
    If you can please contact Ken via this link
    : https://kenskingdom.wordpress.com/2019/08/30/the-wacky-world-of-weather-stations-no-63-barraba-nsw/#comments

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    Kim Howard

    Have made my submission filled out the document and they ask for documents , I have video and internet links but I don`t have any documents PDF word or such, Please upload to Jo so as I can include in my submission

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    Roy Hogue

    When will they ever learn? Or maybe the question is, can they ever learn? Power has gone to their heads… :-(

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    DaveR

    I hope the WA EPA go all the way and unilaterally re-impose the emissions conditions they tried to impose before, irrespective of what these submissions say. All the big oil&gas and minerals projects will halt and the state will truly face real bankruptcy in short time.

    That way the EPA and their enabling ALP state government will be swept away for a generation instead of returning like a virulent disease every few years.

    It will be harsh for WA residents, and an international slowdown, maybe a recession, is coming. But hey, you voted them in, you have to wear the consequences.

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    pat

    madness:

    30 Aug: SMH: Angus Taylor warns businesses face ‘real risk’ of blackouts this summer
    By Emma Koehn
    “There are real risks, particularly in Victoria as we approach summer and it’s important that we apply pressure to ensure there’s balance in our electricity system: solar and wind has to be balanced with dispatchable reliable power,” the minister said on the sidelines of the Council of Small Business Organisations Australia (COSBOA) National Small Business Summit in Melbourne on Friday.

    In his speech to the summit, Minister Taylor said the two motivating forces behind his government’s energy policies, including its underwriting program, would be to secure affordability and reliability in the energy market.
    He said Australia was in the middle of an “energy investment boom”, though the results were not flowing through to small business customers as they should.
    “It’s absolutely astonishing that an industry is in the middle of an investment boom but can’t be sure it can keep the lights on,” he said…

    He said technology would play a crucial role in further emissions reduction and he hoped for bipartisan co-operation when exploring future options.
    “I think with all these technologies, it needs to be bipartisan if we’re going to give ourselves a pathway to further emission reductions.”…
    The Morrison government released emissions data on Friday for the March quarter that showed carbon emissions increased 0.6 per cent on the previous 12 months.
    Labor energy spokesperson Mark Butler hit out at the government’s energy policy after viewing the numbers.
    “Australians have come to expect this from a government that is not serious on taking real action on climate change,” Mr Butler said.

    Minister Taylor told the summit “we’re going absolutely gangbusters in reducing emissions”…
    https://www.smh.com.au/business/small-business/angus-taylor-warns-businesses-face-real-risk-of-blackouts-this-summer-20190830-p52mb1.html

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      Kinky Keith

      Polyspeak / Gobbledygook.

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        Serp

        Plus preparations for this summer should have started immediately after the Jan 25 debacle; Victoria is many summers away from even commencing the building of a coal fired power station to replace Hazelwood given the blinkered approach of the Premier and Energy Minister and the stranglehold the Greens have on the legislature. What’s the point of declaring a State of Emergency when it goes black when there is no solution prepared?

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    pat

    ultra madness:

    0 Aug: ABC: Cheap green loans from Sustainable Australia Fund are changing the way businesses see solar
    By business reporter Daniel Ziffer
    Soaring power prices have driven the rocketing rate of solar panel installations on household roofs across Australia.
    But the long time it would take to pay off the installation, and receive the benefits, has discouraged many businesses from investing.
    A new scheme is attempting to overcome that hurdle.
    “In the last few years we’ve seen the average size of solar projects double in the markets of commercial property, manufacturing and agriculture property,” said Anna Skarbek, chief executive of think-tank ClimateWorks.
    “That’s thanks to the falling costs of solar and the need of businesses to see energy prices come down. And they know that they can with this technology”.
    Australia’s recent take-up of solar power is astonishing…

    Mr Edis, an analyst and director at the advisory firm Green Energy Markets, said site supervisors were whipping out renewable energy and energy efficiency plans they have had ready to go for years.’
    “Now they can finally get their projects up,” he said…

    At Paringa Estate winery on Victoria’s Mornington Peninsula, winemaker Lindsay McCall observed the increasing cost of his electricity bill — particularly over summer when the winery requires more refrigeration.
    “It’s just a steady rising cost that is, I guess, hidden,” Mr McCall said…
    His electrician suggested paying for the installation of solar panels using the Sustainable Australia Fund.
    An expansion of a successful City of Melbourne project, the $200 million fund is backed by customer-owned institution Bank Australia.
    It lends money for renewable technology, which customers pay back — via their council rates — over a period of 20 years.
    Businesses avoid the upfront sting of hefty installation costs and the bank secures a long-term loan…

    Ms Skarbek said the “turbulence” of the political environment around climate change policy — which has contributed to the demise of prime ministers and opposition leaders — had also contributed to the rocketing prices and the boom in renewable energy…
    “The science requires that the whole world reaches a carbon neutral or net zero emissions position by the middle of the century at the latest,” Ms Skarbek said.
    “So that means that all their buildings need to operate with zero emissions from their energy, as do our farms, manufacturing businesses and large industries … so this work will be needed urgently for this decade and next.”…

    At the winery, climate change has already dragged harvest dates a month earlier than they were 20 years ago, as hotter summers do their work on the grapes.
    “I’m considering probably putting more panels on here,” Mr McCall said…
    “I think it’s the way to go and the quicker Australia adopts more and more of natural energy, whether it be wind or solar, the better.”
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-30/green-loans-financing-solar-panels-for-business/11462780

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      pat

      ABC articles should be dated 30 August 2019.

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      PeterPetrum

      It is going to be very interesting to see who pays for removing and disposing of all the toxic materials in these “booming” solar installations in 10-15 years time and whether they will bother to replace them when we are running the country on hydro and nuclear after Donald Trump becomes a naturalised Aussie and lives here.

      Damn, I have just woken up!

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    Ian Hill

    Western Australia would have about 0.03% of the World’s population, not 0.3% as stated.

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    pat

    26 Aug: Spectator: Subsidies, bureaucrats, blackouts and bills: inside our electricity disaster
    by Alan Moran
    The Australian Energy Market Operator is one of the half dozen different government institutions responsible for planning and managing the electricity industry. Like its sister agencies, AEMO accepts no responsibility for the transformation of an industry that over the past five years has gone from supplying the world’s cheapest, most reliable power to one of the dearest and least reliable.

    There is daily evidence of the damage from climate change inspired, renewable energy-induced high electricity prices. The latest confirmation comes from Bluescope, which is opting for a $1 billion investment in the US, rather than Australia. The cause of this disaster has been the regulations subsidising high cost intermittent renewable energy…

    Although there is no evidence of warming trending above its level prior to global industrialisation, with few exceptions, the energy regulatory establishment is wedded to alarmist projections…READ ALL
    https://www.spectator.com.au/2019/08/subsidies-bureaucrats-blackouts-and-bills-inside-our-electricity-disaster/

    revenge?

    30 Aug: ACCC: Action against BlueScope for alleged cartel conduct
    The ACCC has instituted civil proceedings in the Federal Court against BlueScope Steel Limited (BlueScope) and its former general manager sales and marketing, Mr Jason Ellis, for alleged cartel conduct in relation to the supply of flat steel products.
    The ACCC alleges that between September 2013 and June 2014, BlueScope and Mr Ellis attempted to induce various steel distributors in Australia and overseas manufacturers to enter agreements containing a price fixing provision.
    It is alleged that BlueScope and Mr Ellis attempted to induce agreements with BlueScope’s competitors, to fix and/or raise the level of pricing for flat steel products supplied in Australia…

    The ACCC is seeking declarations, pecuniary penalties and costs against BlueScope and Mr Ellis, as well as an order disqualifying Mr Ellis from managing corporations.
    “This matter involves allegations of serious cartel conduct,” Mr Sims said.
    Given the six year limitation period for taking civil proceedings for certain of the alleged conduct was about to expire, the ACCC has determined it is appropriate to commence such proceedings against BlueScope and Mr Ellis…READ ALL
    https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/action-against-bluescope-for-alleged-cartel-conduct

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      DaveR

      very pertinent comment:

      Although there is no evidence of warming trending above its level prior to global industrialisation, with few exceptions, the energy regulatory establishment is wedded to alarmist projections…

      In Australia its because we have an alarmist chief executive Audrey Zibelman, straight out of the far left New York energy bubble, and appointed by Leftist Turnbull. Time to replace her with a non-PC centrist.

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    pat

    30 Aug: Illawarra Mercury: Energy costs are strangling our economy, says Illawarra Business Chamber boss
    by Adam Zarth
    (Adam Zarth is the Executive Director of the Illawarra Business Chamber and Illawarra First)
    If you’ve gone to the letterbox recently and opened up an energy bill that has made your eyes bleed, at least you’re in good company. BlueScope’s total domestic energy bill – gas and electricity – has reportedly gone up by as much as $60 million over the last two years. Talk about bill shock!
    Australian businesses are paying some of the highest energy prices in world. And given our country is blessed with strong reserves of natural resources, an abundance of sun and significant capability in solar, wind, micro-grids, energy storage, ocean energy, hydro power, geothermal and bioenergy, this just doesn’t make sense…

    However in recent times, price increases and reliability concerns have played havoc and continue to threaten tens of thousands of jobs in NSW manufacturing. In a recent survey of members, half of them named controlling their energy costs as their top priority.
    “The Chamber is arguing for national policy action on energy that addresses the desperate need for affordability, the requirement for base load power (to keep the lights on) as well as sustainability.”…

    So what has led us to this predicament? I’ll give you the short version. A decade of fruitless debate about how to reduce our emissions has sent mixed signals to the market about the future of electricity generation. Because nobody could be sure whether coal-fired power stations were to be taxed or regulated out of existence, none have been built. Yet no alternatives have either. Wind and solar are clearly preferable for a range of reasons, but they cannot provide base load power. And nobody wants to talk about nuclear power…

    What about gas? Both Queensland and NSW have rich supplies of Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG), but while our state’s coal seam gas industry was killed off by ferocious community protests, much of Queensland’s has been locked into long-term contracts for export to Asian markets, which has pushed the price up significantly…
    But we should also be developing our gas reserves in NSW…
    Over 1.3 million homes in NSW use gas for cooking and heating. Thousands of small businesses, from commercial laundries to bakeries, cannot open their doors without gas. In the manufacturing sector, gas underpins around 250,000 jobs…

    The federal government needs to use its freshly-elected mandate to resolve our energy security before we become an economic backwater.
    https://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/6357591/energy-costs-are-strangling-our-economy-says-illawarra-business-chamber-boss/

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    pat

    problem solved!

    26 Aug: SMH: Government rolls out $11.7 million small business energy check
    By Cara Waters
    The government will launch a $11.7 million small business energy program on Monday in a bid to battle rising energy costs.
    The program involves two free tools: a personalised energy advice service and a small business energy check online benchmarking tool.

    Small businesses have been struggling to deal with escalating energy prices and Minister for Energy and Emissions Reduction Angus Taylor said the Business Energy Advice Program would provide some assistance…
    The government has partnered with the NSW Business Chamber, advisory firm AlphaBeta and accounting platform Xero to deliver the program.
    The NSW Business Chamber will assist in the national delivery of one-on-one energy consultations for businesses with 6–20 employees…
    https://www.smh.com.au/business/small-business/government-rolls-out-11-7-million-small-business-energy-check-20190823-p52k5s.html

    30 Aug: Utility Mag: Government gives energy data control to customers
    by Eliza Booth
    The Federal Government has announced it is officially extending the Consumer Data Right to energy services, giving consumers more power to compare and switch providers to lower their energy bills…
    From February 2020, for the first time, consumers will have greater access to the information that banks hold on them and will be able to use it to shop around and get a better deal.
    As the government now moves to extend the Consumer Data Right to energy, it has also released a consultation paper seeking feedback on the data sets and data access model that will apply to the energy sector…

    The ACCC is proposing to use the Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO) gateway model, which provides data on a customer’s current electricity agreement from their current retailer to a trusted third party, so long as the customer allows it.
    Australian Energy Council Chief Executive, Sarah McNamara, said giving consumers more control over their data would encourage the tailoring of products and services to individual customer needs, and increase innovation…

    A consumer would be around $1,000 better off by switching from the worst to the best electricity plan in both New South Wales and South Australia. A small business would be over $7,000 better off in South Australia and over $4,500 better off in Victoria from a similar switch…
    https://utilitymagazine.com.au/government-gives-energy-data-control-to-customers/

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    David Wojick

    The EPA’s reasoning is simple. Australia has signed the Paris Agreement calling for emission reductions so anything adding new emissions is contrary to that agreement. This is false. Development must continue, with reduction strategies planned at the national level.

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    I have submitted all of the pages from my web site:
    https://www.climateauditor.com
    as evidence that there is NO Greenhouse Effect.

    The UN IPCC and its followers have made a major error. They apply the Greenhouse Effect to the outgoing heat emitted by the Earth’s surface but completely ignore that effect on the incoming Sun’s heat. By my calculation the later is at least 50 times greater than the internal back-radiation. This means that the Earth would get colder as the CO2 concentration increased. It has not happened, proving that the Greenhouse Effect is a fiction.

    This is confirmed by the fact that analysis of satellite lower troposphere temperature is independent of CO2 concentration.

    Furthermore, the temperature determines the rate of generation of CO2 which is why CO2 change always post-dates temperature change. This mandates that the later CO2 change cannot possibly cause the earlier temperature change.

    I eagerly await the EPA findings to see how they can get around these facts.

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    pat

    29 Aug: SMH: $50b super fund demands Woodside, Santos link exec pay to emissions
    By Mathew Dunckley and Ben Weir
    Superannuation giant HESTA has demanded Australian oil and gas companies explicitly link the pay of their top executives to their performance on reducing carbon emissions or risk an investor backlash.
    The $50 billion industry fund for health workers wants companies such as Woodside and Santos to follow the lead of international energy giants BP and Shell in directly tying executive remuneration to emissions reduction.
    “We feel the time is right to take a strong position on this. We strongly suggest that this needs to occur,” said HESTA chief executive Debbie Blakey, adding that the fund may vote against resolutions at shareholder meetings if it is unhappy with a company’s response.
    “If we don’t see that this year we will be considering our options. I think it is going to be an interesting voting season this year. We have been prepared to vote strongly where we believe that is required.”…

    HESTA has a $240 million holding in Woodside, which has a market capitalisation of about $30 billion, and $103 million worth of shares in Santos which is a $14 billion company…
    HESTA said the Santos policy was insufficient because it did not include ‘scope three’ emissions – carbon emitted by the company’s customers…

    Emma Herd, chief executive at the Investor Group on Climate Change, said it was frustrating to be told a company had a position and then see a contrary stance taken by their lobby group on behalf of members…

    On Wednesday, the Australian Conservation Foundation wrote to the chief executives of ANZ bank, National Australia Bank, Westpac Banking Corp, Telstra Corp, Woolworths, Coles Group, Medibank, Coca Cola Amatil and Qantas calling on the companies to cancel their membership of the Business Council of Australia (BCA).
    “These companies are committed to become more environmentally responsible, but the BCA is not representing their goals and ambitions,” said the foundation’s chief executive Kelly O’Shanassy.
    “Over the past decade the BCA has consistently sought to weaken Australia’s already inadequate environment laws.”…READ ALL
    https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/50b-super-fund-demands-woodside-santos-link-exec-pay-to-emissions-20190828-p52lj7.html

    Hesta Super Fund (health and community service sectors) Chair:

    31 Oct 2018: Womens Agenda: Nicola Roxon appointed independent chair of HESTA
    Five years since leaving politics and starting a board career, Nicola Roxon has been appointed independent chair of HESTA, ready to take over from Angela Emslie at the end of the year…
    Roxon was the (LABOR) Federal Health Minister before becoming Attorney General in 2003. She addressed the first Women’s Agenda Leadership Awards in 2013, where she spoke about the ‘buzz’ of her political career, and said that despite the lack of work life balance, it had been worth it. She stepped out of politics midway through 2013 to spend more time with her daughter and pursue the next chapter in the her career…
    https://womensagenda.com.au/latest/nicola-roxon-hesta-appointment/

    irrelevant, but worth noting:

    LinkedIn: Stephen Reilly, Chief Operating Officer at HESTA, Aug 2015 – Present
    About…(final line)
    I also have a monthly radio show on ABC Grandstand Digital called More Than Just A Game…

    the program may have ended on ABC in May (from what I see online, tho it’s hard to tell), but the twitter page is current and everything you would expect from the “woke” mob. includes pic:

    Twitter: More Than Just a Game, Looking at big issues in sport off the field of play on ABC Grandstand Digital. Paul Roach, Stephen Reilly, Simon Johnson & David Gill.
    https://twitter.com/MTJAGgrandstand

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    pat

    every cloud has a silver lining:

    28 Aug: AFR: Electricity price rises great news for data centres: MacTel
    by James Fernyhough
    Rising electricity prices have lifted demand for data centres as businesses are forced to close their inhouse computer rooms and move data storage into the cloud, Macquarie Telecom chief executive David Tudehope says.
    The demand is one of the factors that has prompted Macquarie Telecom, which is no relation to the banking giant of the same name, to reinvest all of its profit in growing the business.

    Part of its capex for 2020 will go towards building a new data centre in Macquarie Park in Sydney, adding to its three existing data centres in Sydney and Canberra. It will also go towards building a new data backbone to support the NBN.
    “One of our main sources of demand is people moving offices and not rebuilding their computer room,” Mr Tudehope said. “The increase in power prices has really focused the minds of CFOs on just how inefficient that computer room is. It’s a bit like having your pool heating on all year round. You didn’t really think about it until power prices rose.”

    Mr Tudehope said the company’s power bill was its “largest single non-staff cost”, but said economies of scale and the deliberate energy efficient design of its data centres meant it was a cheaper option for businesses…
    https://www.afr.com/companies/telecommunications/electricity-price-rises-great-news-for-data-centres-mactel-20190828-p52lju

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    Kinky Keith

    There is No Point making any submission as it will be given no consideration.

    The people running this farce are Not interested in reason or truth, just power.

    When it’s all over and the country is devastated they will be the only ones in jobs.

    How has such looniness been allowed to continue for so long?

    The underlying premise that human origin CO2 is capable of causing atmospheric overheating is plain scientific stupidity and the only explanation for the continuance of the renewables mitigation farce is hidden “benefits” to legislators.

    Just think Aldi plastic bags full of papery stuff multiplied by thousands.

    Australia is going to hell in a plastic bag.

    KK

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      glen Michel

      I concur KK. A grim, dystopian outlook.

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      David Wojick

      As I say above, yes the EPA will ignore it, but it is important to get it on the record. It may wind up before a judge so be rational and respectful. I do not know about Oz, but in the U.S. you can only sue on the record. It is called exhausting your administrative remedies. You first tell the agency, then when they ignore you, you ask the Court to tell them. This can be quite effective.

      But no comment, no case.

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    I know many here come from a libertarian or right position. My slant is conservationist. My objection to the EPA and its ilk are conservation-based.

    Conservation demands that I see every resource – not just water, air, wilderness – as a treasure. Money, time, oil, coal are treasures, and when you waste one resource you waste the others. Waste makes waste, thrift makes thrift. When I last visited Sydney in May I was shocked at the traffic, at the time and fuel wasted by millions every day. Parking was an even greater waste than traffic. Every day, waiting and hovering while burning fuel and filling the skull with media refuse. Yet millions of people had jobs to get to and thousands of businesses were waiting for millions of customers. Huh?

    Where is the efficient metro system every great city needs so bodies can get around below and cars can get around above? What about nuclear power and HELE? If the concerns of such bodies as the EPA were genuine, all these good things would be available yesterday. Instead, years have passed with no improvement while billions have been frittered on toy “green” solutions. As if not enough has been wasted, they now want to jam up the city with electric vehicles. Imagine a million of those hovering for a charging point after a day hovering in the ever-increasing traffic. New meaning to “six o’clock swill”.

    Environmentalism is plunder. You see where the money is and start grabbing. The crippling of industry and waste of resources mean nothing to Big Green, which is why it heads straight for the trough every time. It doesn’t know any other direction but the trough.

    What we get through the EPA is white elephants and plunder. What we need is coal and conservation.

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    David Wojick

    Regarding this: “The EPA are only supposed to be considering the environment, not the economy.”

    The US Clean Air Act reads the same way, from the 1970s. Clearly this is impossible and that should be pointed out. Calling for unaffordable environmental protections means not calling for affordable ones, with the environment the loser. Public policy is fundamentally about economics.

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    Robber

    Headline: WA EPA plans to save the world!
    It’s a climate emergency, so the WA EPA should immediately implement the following actions to slash CO2 “emissions”:
    1. Stop all iron ore, oil and LNG exports
    2. All cars to only be used on alternate days
    3. Flights to Perth to be restricted to one per hour
    4. All government ministers and EPA officials to be fitted with masks that absorb their CO2 “emissions”.
    5. EPA QANGO members should be sent on an expedition by wind-powered boat to India and China to further investigate the real meaning of pollution.
    6. Applying the precautionary principle, to prevent environmental degradation all CO2 producing activities including exhaling should be curtailed urgently.

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    Chris

    Isn’t Western Australia’s population only 0.03 per cent of the world’s population, not 0.3 percent??? It’s past midnight in the uk but that’s my calculation in my head of 2.6 million as a per cent of 7 billion

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    • #
      Ian Hill

      Correct Chris. One percent of 7 billion is 70 million and Australia’s population is about a third of that and WA has a tenth of Australia’s population.

      10

  • #
    OldOzzie

    Meanwhile out in real life fantasy land, `I wonder where WA EPA is going to get the Electricity

    Porsche Claims It Can Double Tesla’s Fast-Charging Rate

    The new, all-electric Taycan will come with a mighty thirst. This charging technology will slake i

    On the A13 highway in Germany, a harried mom pulls into a rest stop, her two restless teenagers in the back of the family’s electric SUV. She steers toward a row of 24 sleek, refrigerator-size obelisks, most already tethered to a vehicle, and parks in front of the unoccupied one she’d reserved en route. Unhooking the cable, she inserts the plug on its end into a port in the car’s rear left flank, behind a flap that resembles the fuel door of earlier decades. She and the teens head to the bathrooms and a warm café for the 15 minutes it’ll take to recharge the car.

    Major car companies have aligned themselves with three competing fast-charging standards. The standards they’re promulgating are incompatible, each having its own operating voltages and currents, physical connectors, control logic, and communication protocols between car and charger.

    Final details will be made public only on 4 September. But if published reports are accurate, the Taycan will launch with 250-kW charging, and 350 kW will be possible by 2021 at the latest. That means 400-plus kilometers of range can be added in less than 20 minutes. In a real hurry? Figure on 100 km in 6 minutes.

    Those levels of power demand the use of new hardware never before fitted to a passenger car. Besides more powerful charging stations, the system also requires a grid that can carry higher power levels to the charging sites, as well as many other enhancements. To roll all this out on a large scale, dozens of car companies will have to work with hundreds of charging networks, equipment suppliers, and, indirectly, with thousands of electric utilities around the world.

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      Rob

      WA (and Australia’s) first wind farm has long since gone and with their life expectancy of less than 25 years, an accelerating number are also going down the gurgler.
      Will the replacements also be heavily taxpayer subsidised or will electricity consumers foot the massive and growing bill?
      We’ll never have enough wind turbines to meet the demand but who cares, astronomical electricity prices will ensure most of us will eventually be “off the grid”.

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        Graeme#4

        I see the Albany wind farm ( the one that’s often shown, visually polluting a beautiful clifftop and ocean landscape) has been shut down for maintenance until October. Wonder what the problem is.

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    • #

      The IEEE article has a misrepresentation of filling stations in Germany

      On the way, they glance over at the travel plaza’s fossil-fuel section. It’s like a little slum, with oil stains on the tarmac, the smell of petrol fumes in the air, and drivers standing at their vehicles squeezing the grimy handles of fuel nozzles.

      You can’t smell petrol fumes at the filling stations because the bowsers are emissions controlled; air from around the nozzle is drawn in and filtered during the filling process. There are no oil stains of note because of regular vehicle inspections where any oil leakage is spotted early and eliminated.

      The article’s author is then not sufficiently imaginative as to the prospect of the EV catching fire, requiring a shutdown of the whole premises for 24 hours as an EV battery fire is considered to be unextinguishable by all conventional means an firefighters simply have to keep people at a safe distance (due to toxic fumes) until the fire runs out of fuel — fuel including the carbon fibre and light metal alloys in the vehicle, due to the intensity of such fires.

      One might think that IEEE authors can do arithmetic. 250kWh recharge in 15 minutes means electrical power requirement in excess of 1 megawatt; because HEAT has to be removed from the battery wehicle it is being recharged at a high rate. Where will that electrical power come from? A magic box? An array of twenty-four magic boxes with a peak supply power equivalent to that of a small “dormitory” city? (Work it out; a 1MW wind turbine is often claimed to provide enough power to 500 households to the peak power draw of the motorway filling station would be equivalent to around 12,000 households.)

      Such loads are sufficient to have one consider a small, modular nuclear power plant; at every such station; just to keep the intensely variable load off the normal electrical power grid. [Lots of photos on the WWW of Tesla Charging stations with a diesel generator in the background; only sometimes hidden by shrubbery or a wall. Will the drivers be paying the equivalent of about 50 cents/kWh that it costs to run those gensets?]

      Electrical power is a means of transmitting power. Think of it like the chain on a bicycle. If you want the wheel to turn, you must push on the pedal before the chain can transmit any power to the wheel.

      Likewise, electrical power has to be generated at the time at which it is required to be used. You can’t put it in a box.

      Batteries use electrical power to (simply put) build up an ionic chemical imbalance between their electrodes. That imbalance is allowed to be restored when a load is connected between the battery’s terminals; resulting in the flow of an electrical current and therefore electrical power.

      The significant advantage of traditional hydrocarbon fuels for transportation is that you can put them into a “box” and “convert” them to mechanical and heat power; as much as you need at the time. It is easily stored and moved with a high energy density in terms of both mass and volume so long vehicle range is the norm; not the exception. A small can of fuel, weighing less than 5kg, is enough to move many a modern car a distance of 100 km or so.

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    1. The Paris Agreement is non-binding.
    2. All of the publications that the EPA use for support of policy change (IPCC, CSIRO, BOM, … ) have clear disclaimers that the publications are not suited for that purpose and with independent evidence and advice being required for policy decision. Always read the fine print before entering into a contract!
    3. The EPA is evidently evaluating what is in those publications through a policy prism. The inevitable bias does not serve the public interest which is served by unbiased analyses and rational decisions.

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    David Wojick

    Here is my submission. Feel free to use it. Multiple comments with similar or even identical content still make the point.

    “With all due respect, EPA seems to have made several errors in judgement.

    First, with respect to the IPCC and several other documents, you say:

    “Taken together, this information is of concern and cannot be dismissed as speculative or incorrect.”

    These claims have in fact been widely challenged as speculative and incorrect. The 350 or so videos in my Climate Change Debate Education collection do exactly that.
    See http://ccdedu.blogspot.com There are on the order of 100 hours of detailed scientific argument that are highly skeptical of the IPCC and similar speculative claims about dangerous human caused climate change, the existence of which is still highly debatable.

    Second, The EPA seems to think that since Australia has signed the Paris Agreement calling for emission reductions, anything adding new emissions is contrary to that agreement. This is false. Development must continue, with reduction strategies planned at the national level. There is nothing in the Paris Agreement to suggest that emission causing development should stop. No country would agree to that.

    Third, my understanding is that the EPA are only supposed to be considering the environment, not the economy. Clearly this is impossible. Calling for unaffordable environmental protections means not calling for affordable ones, with the environment the loser. Public policy is fundamentally about economics.

    Respectfully submitted.

    David Wojick, Ph.D.
    Wardensville WV USA”

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    Andrew

    0.03%, surely?

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    David Wojick

    My latest in the Google News bias investigation. I expected an algorithm but found live people instead, 10,000 ranking news outlets,

    https://www.cfact.org/2019/09/01/the-extreme-bias-against-conservative-sources-in-google-news-is-human/#iLightboxgallery33797/0

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    Gee aye

    Caution on lambasting, “The precautionary principle”.

    It does get various “official” definitions in legal systems and legislation in various jurisdictions. To my eye there are hard and soft PPs.

    The precautionary principle — the wholly unscientific idea that dangers we can’t be sure of must be avoided, and which is only selectively applied to politically convenient issues.

    Jo has taken to task the soft one where you don’t do something because you are worried about something. The hard version is where evidence exists of a risk or threat and an objective assessment made using data that it is better to avoid the possible danger.

    A PP is never scientific just like a jug of milk is not scientific, so it is trivial to label it as such. Better to claim that the basis for resorting to the PP is unscientific as this fits the definition of a PP.

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