JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Weekend Unthreaded

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Rating: 9.1/10 (21 votes cast)
Weekend Unthreaded, 9.1 out of 10 based on 21 ratings

180 comments to Weekend Unthreaded

  • #
    GD

    It was wonderful to see President Trump and the American people celebrating the 4th of July in Washington. I was so carried away by it all that I expected to see Jenny in her hippie dress jump in the water and wade towards the main stage just as Forrest Gump jumped in the water in his full dress uniform.

    As I said, I was carried away. Nonetheless, it was a great celebration of how great America has been and is now with the presidency of Donald Trump.

    Naturally, the Democrats were spitting chips. AOC reckoned it was a small turnout. Heck, is there nothing she can’t get right? Double negative, but you get my point.

    A snippet of the great man’s speech, courtesy Steve Kates at Cattalaxy.

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    • #
      Another Ian

      ““Trump has played the incredible trick of making the liberals seem to come out against the 4th of July” ”

      http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2019/07/04/trump-has-played-the-incredible-trick-of-making-the-liberals-seem-to-come-out-against-the-4th-of-july/

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      • #
        TdeF

        The Anti-FA violent black clad masked thugs are backed by the Democrats and the media. They are the very image of the Mussolini’s Black Shirts and Hitler’s brown shirts, formlized as Hitler’s SS, clothes by Hugo Boss.

        The support of the left for Anti-FA shows what we have always known, that socialism is the face of violent oppression and dictatorship. The exclusive support of the very left of politics for Global Warming now Climate Change shows they see it as a means to an evil end and the United Nations and EU as organizations desperate to rule by any means possible and with a real hatred of the governments they want to undermine. Scheming Teresa May has made Chamberlain seem so much better.

        What is sad is the enlistment of so many enthusiastic young people who have left Climate Change for the Extinction Revolution as a shadow of the Hitler Youth. The future belongs to them, down with the adults, America and Britain and Russia. It is very much like 1935. As the motto of Green politicians everywhere, tell them what they want to hear and when we get power, we do what we like. (Adam Bandt to me)

        It’s not about Carbon Dioxide.

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        • #
          TdeF

          The difference this time is that the protesters are the young privileged rich. The world’s poor just want a fraction of what they have and the EU/UN/Democrats see oppen borders as a way to bring
          down democracy and install the totalitarian government they want. The absurdity of alleging ‘the Russians’ influenced the US election is amazing. Hitler’a acolytes are still blaming the
          Bolsheviks after 85 years.

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          • #
            Graeme No.3

            TdeF:

            In the early thirties a number of observers classified the Nazis as Bolsheviks too.
            Nationist SOCIAL WORKERS Party

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            • #
              glen Michel

              More in the way of appeal to the disaffected.Nationalist first with an imbuement of egalitarianism. This appealed to the Landser( German troops) withbth3irvnotion of Kameradenschafft. Strongly anti- communist and internationalist. German Interwebs events bear this out.

              12

          • #
            Another Ian

            “The difference this time is that the protesters are the young privileged rich”

            Even more reason these useful idiots can look forward to being taken out first

            60

        • #
          Mal

          It was never about CO2
          It about power and control of the masses.
          Nothing ever changes, power and greed are the goals

          The players just change

          51

      • #
        Curious George

        Trump made “liberals seem to come out against the 4th of July”? No trick. They are openly against everything American. Nike “Betsy Ross Flag” sneakers are just the latest example. Mr. Colin Kaepernick objected, Nike pulled them. Soon there will be a solemn burning of an American flag before a match, instead of playing a hated anthem.

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        • #
          TdeF

          It’s seen as cunning how by holding a 4th July party like the rest of America, Trump has managed to cast the Democrats as anti American. Which they are. Anti the American flag. Anti American borders. Anti free speech. Anti democracy, which has failed to elect Hilary. Hardly cunning. Even ridiculous film Maker Michael Moore claimed the rain on Trump’s parade was Climate Change!

          I was interested that California and New York control 84 of the 538 electoral college seats and 270 are needed for a win. Mega cities Los Angeles, Chicago, New York mean 104 and you only need 166 more. Add only Florida and it was very close and you have half the target before the other states are counted.

          “There are 538 electors; based on 435 representatives, 100 senators, and three electors allocated to Washington, D.C. The six states with the most electors are California (55), Texas (38), New York (29), Florida (29), Illinois (20), and Pennsylvania (20).”

          It shows you why the money men of New York and Los Angeles/Hollywood and Chicago feel they own the election, despite those pesky Russians. They must be reading their own scripts. Even James Bond stopped fighting the Russians 20 years ago.

          This also shows the world how out of touch the billionaires in America are with their own people and how little they care. Except for Bill Gates who invented his own way to get rich.

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    • #
      Another Ian

      GD

      See Pat 24.1.

      After AOC’s recent “camera events” of her watch and crying at an empty parking lot maybe time for her to learn that she doesn’t control all the cameras in the world.

      60

  • #
    Richard Ilfeld

    Reading the GE 10K & annual report, in an effort to rebuild the company they are doubling down on their committment to wind power and wind turbine parts. Their ‘renewable’ energy division claims 22,900 employees, about 10 billion dollars in orders and about 17 billion dollars in backlog. They claim a modest profit in 2018.
    They have announced the “reservoir” battery energy storage platform, the Haliade-X 12 MW “The Most Powerful Offshore wind turbine in the world” . They Announced the onshore platform cypress with a jointed blade, supposedly easing the transport problems.

    If one continues to read the fine print, however, the renewable pat of the energy business (in the “Power” division) is a major laggard.
    General Electric Equips “90 percent of transmission utilities worldwide including 7,000 plus gas turbines and nearly 6,000 coal and nuclear steam turbines. The Oil and Gas business is considerably larger than the renewable business, and from a profitablity standpoint, the alternatives business is not relevant and would probably be for sale if a buyer could be found as GE has been selling assets to rebuild its balance sheet.

    The total claimed renewable nameplate claimed was 400 GW, including hydro, not broken out.

    It is worth noting that each wind installation is probably matched by a natural gas installation if backup dispatch power is not already in place.

    General Electric has, over the last few years suffered serious problems, drastically impacting both the stock price & the dividend.

    One can understand why a company like GE would go into wind turbines. If you are the market leader in turbines, and there is market demand, and financing, it is a business. But like several other GE markets, while the products may have been sound, there operations of the financial arm of the company were not. Some say that the political ambitions of the previous CEO, and acceptance into the highest levels of the administration by having the company flog alternative energy and jobs programs, contributed to the company’s current problems.

    A 10 K doesn’t help separate political from business.
    GE, a company with limited capital resources but still a world leader in power products, is still investing, heavily for their resource base, in both onshore and offshore wind turbines. This despite the business essentially being break-even unless one counts the paired conventional power generation, or the fact that the customers buy other GE products, neither point made by GE in their report. They anticipate a long-term unit replacement business improving future profits as R&D is amortized.

    A tentative conclusion might be that the green machine has elevated wind power to that of an ‘industry’ with staying power, in spite of the fact that it would be rarely competitive on any basis in a more rational energy market. For the US there is a lobbying power that a Chinese solar MFR would nor have for that segment of the market.

    So now IMHO comes the market segmentation downstream. There seems to be a lot of Gas to frack, and it’s pretty clean to burn. There is a lot of coal to mine, and its lower cost to transport and store than gas, and utilites with with state of the art coal plant will do pretty well if they are allowed to continue. Absent a national mandate in the US (or a FERC gone wild) we will have 30-40 utilities with quite different fuels mixes, cost structures and regulatory regimes. Low cost reliable energy is a major enhancement to having a highly productive economy. The pattern will be the same across countries.

    Everyone will have token ‘alternative’ energy. If you resist you will have idiots marching around outside your corporate headquarters.
    If I were a utility executive (a job that might be considered a punishment rather than a promotion) I think I would build a large number of small solar Plus wind stations, visible from the freeways and near the exits, and offer a few free solar charging stations at each. I’d write the cost off to advertising and then go about generating power the old fashioned way. Oh I’d also propose a hugely complex and controversial offshore wind plant and grid modification that could never get built, and actuall apply for permit, so when folks complained about my Potemkin Solar stations I could point out that they weren’t helping the bigger projects.

    When General Electric in their annual report is talking about R&d for the replacement cycle of wind turbines, it’s time to be in limit-the-damage mode. IT would be possible to Rube Golberg protect the grid, if sanity were not an issue. Simply run a gas pipe to each windmill and clutch the turbine; put in a small steam motor and a battery. When the wind dies down, the battery takes over…if its more that a few seconds the steam burner starts and soon kicks in, and both can idle if the wind pick back up after the steam output has driven a tiny dynamo to recharge the battery. See the output from each tower would be consistent. and hey, the wind is FREE.

    One might also conclude that the forces that have driven GE down are still at work in that pat of the company and sell the stock.
    But GE aside, There is his cultural thing going on that clearly transcends the physics of energy; in commercial after commercial the wind turbine or the solar tower or the electric car is show as the very essence of modern scientific progress and man’s harnessing the environment. Spectacular film footage — bad investment advice.

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    • #
      sophocles

      Recessions hit everyone.

      The current recession started in October 2017 and it hit bottom in JUne 2018, last year and will end about middle of next year. There will be `growth’ (small but there) over the next 12 months and then it will take off.

      In the meantime, because there was no flashy and eye catching `crash’ towards the end of 2017, (the reason for the celebrations at Davos in Switzerland during their meeting there in Jan 2018) not even the word `recession’ has been uttered. It’s almost as though it’s like the word `cooling’ in climate propaganda.

      Yet we have Reserve Banks cutting cash rates `to stimulate the economy’ — if it wasn’t in recession it wouldn’t need stimulating — capital intensive industries in dire straits (eg construction companies, and alternative lending sources) and so it goes on, with balance sheets being `reorganised’ everywhere. The economic apprentices keep talking about the danger of China crashing. Yeah, Santa exists.

      It will improve in 2020 and by 2021 it will be growing rapidly. Just like it did in 2002/2003 before the 2008 Big One.
      That will Sept/Oct 2026 this cycle. Big investment into alt energy may make the splash then really spectacular.

      40

  • #
    Lionell Griffith

    That which is unsustainable(costs more than it delivers) cannot be sustained. Lying about it and shifting unrecoverable costs off the books and onto the taxpayers won’t help. At least not in the long run. In my not so humble opinion, GE is riding a nearly starved over loaded donkey into the ground. It may carry them over the flats but not over the next mountain.

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  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    http://joannenova.com.au/2019/07/cosmic-rays-seeded-clouds-during-the-last-geomagnetic-reversal/

    Further: Ancient Northland kauri tree reveals secrets of Earth’s polar reversal

    “The tree was buried in about 8m of soil and was preserved like swamp kauri, despite not actually being in a swamp.

    Now, carbon dating has confirmed the ancient kauri was alive 41,000 to 42,500 years ago, making it one of the oldest trees ever found.

    It was uncovered at Northland’s Ngāwhā about three months ago during excavations for a geothermal power plant expansion.

    During its 1500-year lifespan, the tree experienced one of the earth’s geomagnetic excursions, meaning the north magnetic pole drifted down to the southern hemisphere and back up again.”

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/science/113954687/ancient-northland-kauri-tree-reveals-secrets-of-earths-polar-reversal

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    • #
      Curious George

      This marks a new magnetic reversal, previously unknown.

      50

    • #
      Greg in NZ

      Was going to say the very last sentence of the article mentions Professor Turkey but Graeme and George (below) obviously got up way earlier than me today.

      These amazing natural hot pools have been my regular stop-off place of pilgrimage for the past 10 years on the way north to surf the legendary west coast point at •••••••• and on the way back too, to cure the cold aching bones. There were two pool complexes but the thermal power station bought-out and shut-down the one I used to go to, Ginn’s, where for $8 you could camp by the lake shore and choose from 8 different temperature/chemical/coloured pools (very rustic, basic, no-frills). They said it was stealing their pressure but for Joe Public they claimed the fibrolite/asbestos changing sheds were a health hazard. Yeah nah. Asbestos casts doubt on Ngawha Springs, 23 Sep, 2015

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503450&objectid=11517460

      The other pools, known as the Maori Pools or Waiariki (chiefly waters) are still operating – $4 entry fee – and are just as hot, smelly, steamy, murky, basic and lovely as Ginns but there’s nowhere to camp overnight now. The whole area sits atop the Northland Volcanic Zone, a raised plateau in the centre of the Far North –

      http://www.ngawhasprings.co.nz/the-history/

      To get the real feel of the Winterless North and Ngawha’s hot springs, check out the opening 5 minutes of Kaikohe Demolition where the bros and cuzzies are soaking in the (now closed, RIP) pools at Ginn’s –

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snp8-B8nhYk

      30

    • #
      sophocles

      Yeah, it saw the Laschamp reversal, it was there but it didn’t take part.

      The The local MSM is going ga-ga. They don’t really understand that the Laschamp reversal is the best known and most studied one.

      The planet’s magnetic field strength dropped to 5% during the transistions and was only 25% during the worst of it. It was very cold — exposure to GCRs meant a strong Svensmark effect (thick cloud cover) and frigid climate. Neanderthal Man went extinct, along with other unknown species.

      The tree won’t say much which isn’t already known but it will be interesting to follow it’s analysis.

      Madern Magnetic Reversals

      List and timetable of recent Geomagnetic Excursions. [ https://booksite.elsevier.com/brochures/geophysics/PDFs/00095.pdf ] I tripped over this yesterday. It’s turning out to be a good read :-)

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Ian,
      no analyses have been done and no results announced; and I wonder whether any will be if they can’t be twisted to AGW.
      In the small print
      “The research is being funded by the Australia Research Council and led by Professor Chris Turney from the University of New South Wales, a expert in paleoclimatology and climate change over the past 40,000 years.”

      40

      • #
        Curious George

        The modest Professor Chris Turney is also analyzing the ancient kauri tree mentioned in #5 above.

        50

        • #
          sophocles

          Graeme No.3 says says:

          a expert in paleoclimatology and climate change over the past 40,000 years.”

          ah, not an expert but an X-Spurt.
          That tree won’t talk!

          20

  • #
    Another Ian

    “Another effective version,portray a typical member of Gang Green on protest duty,then remove each item of clothing that is based on fossil fuels, cheap energy or modern technology.
    Or a day in the life,if Gang Green got what they wanted,or claim they want.”

    From http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2019/07/05/western-energy-ministers-take-note/#comment-1220228

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  • #
    James

    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/07/06/brexit-boost-jaguar-land-rover-confirms-electric-car-manufacturing-plans-uk/

    There is a YouTube video by channel 4 about this as well. They were all gushing about how great this was.

    I commented that combining range anxiety with spontaneously combusting Lithium ion batteries with Lucas electrics! What could go wrong with that?

    I had some discussion about what will happen when Britain is becalmed. A commentator asked me when did that ever happen. I suggested when there is a high pressure dominant weather pattern over Britain like on June 2018. I suggested with all these electric cars you will blow the interconnects with Europe.

    They then argued with me that electric cars draw little current. I pointed out that out of a normal domestic outlet you will get 4 mile range per hour. Out of a 50 amp outlet (240 volts) you get
    25 mile of range per hour. But if everyone plugs in when they get home from work you would overwhelm the distribution system. They had no further comments to this fact (I did provide links to back them up to Tesla and a green energy car forum).

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  • #
    Another Ian

    “Eat Your Meat! Heart Disease In Paleo Farmers And Egyptian Mummies”

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2019/07/06/eat-your-meat-heart-disease-in-paleo-farmers-and-egyptian-mummies/

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  • #
    Another Ian

    “What Could Possibly Go Wrong?”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2019/07/06/what-could-possibly-go-wrong-9/

    Click on the photo to get to the link

    40

  • #
    Greg Cavanagh

    My God; After reading a James Delingpole article, I decided to search for “garbage left behind after green festival”. And i found this wonderful research in Australia about the problem. It’s worth a look, believe me.

    https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/waste-at-festivals/11249908

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    • #
      Yonniestone

      I read this too but wasn’t surprised by the littering, what people have to understand is the strong beliefs someone can hold one moment can alter in another, amongst a group of like minded people the peer pressure is intense but within that intensity changes to dogmas can develop and be accepted by the group if it suits their needs even when it goes against their core beliefs.

      The leaving of trash (most of which is produced by industry) would be justified by “I pay taxes so they can pay someone else” or “We’ll leave the trash as a display of what big industry does” and so on, the core needs of the individual will depend on their ability to rationalise and act upon that rationality, with most that follow left wing political systems their lack of self determination impacts the outcome of that process.

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      • #
        Bobl

        I disagree, this isn’t a left / right thing it’s a sombody else’s problem (collectivist) think. Individualists ( libertarians) take responsibility for their own individual messes while collectivist expet the everyone else to step in to. It’s pretty clear that a group that expects everyone else to pay for their welfare cheques and still do as they the greenies say to “save the planet” isn’t going to clean up their dirty dishes.

        It’s also generational, there is not one millennial I know that thinks they should have to hand wash dishes. They wanna save the world but still demand to use dishwashers with caustic detergent. As Yoda might say, Hypocrisy is strong with this generation.

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        • #
          Greg Cavanagh

          Your statement reflects why socialism fails.

          In the article they believe their administration cost to enter the park is sufficient payment to cover the cost of the entertainment and maintenance of the facility. They don’t realize that much of the labor is voluntary.

          I used to volunteer for the Brisbane medieval festival. But it quickly became so popular that it was standing room only, so difficult to watch the demonstrations, and even the number of reenactors dropped off.

          The rubbish bins were emptied multiple times per day. If you can keep the bins from spilling over, most people will use them. The rubbish there after the event wasn’t too bad at all.

          40

        • #
          Yonniestone

          Yes the collectivist/individualist idea was what I tried to express, this is a generalisation though as I’ve seen appalling behaviour from conservative types also where others are concerned, even witnessed a bizarre incident of shoplifting by a board director of a large Australian company who justified their actions with with a quasi ‘broken window theory’.

          The Millennial can be worrying but every generation is critical of the one before or after, I’m sure there were old generation Romans moaning about the kids driving their chariots too fast in the streets or not using the Vomitorium at a party but still the world turned, though the collapse of great civilisations is a slow erosion of its developed values vs its ability to adapt to change.

          20

        • #
          Greg Cavanagh

          I just went through my old photos of the Abby medieval fair from 2004 and 2013. It’s rare to see a piece of paper on the ground. So it’s a very different community.

          60

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      Hanrahan

      Mountains of trash left by ‘environmentalists’ after pipeline protest

      http://www.theamericanmirror.com/photos-fields-trash-left-environmentalists-pipeline-protest/

      50

    • #
      StephenP

      David Attenborough attended the Glastonbury Festival, and in a speech praised them for not using single use plastic bottles. It seemed to have little effect on the amount of trash left on the site. Hypocrites.

      30

  • #
    Yonniestone

    Flying over to Perth today for a week for a bit of RnR and business, I was going to bring the rain with us again but it seems you’re doing fine without our help LOL.

    Someone said their relatives in Perth say its been a colder and wetter winter than recent ones, is this true Jo? or any other Perth people out there.

    60

    • #
      Sambar

      Hope you are successful at bringing a bit of precipitation back to Vic. Yonnie. Up here in the low part of the high country things are looking a bit grim. My area is aboiut 160mm short of long term average rainfall and a few k’s up stream, Lake Eildon is about 33% of capacity. Not to worry though, the lake actually dropped 6 or 7 cm in level last week. Outflows exceeded in flows quite significantly, the river running reasonably well for, you know, environmental purposes.

      50

      • #
        Yonniestone

        Not good Sambar, some high Spring rainfalls might make it up there also does Lake Eildon get any water form the snow melt?

        Releasing water downstream for river health etc.. is folly, after our last big drought government thought the completely dried out rivers and streams would be void of any life but after the rains lo and behold it all came back, it was as if wildlife in Australia had developed some amazing ability to handle the extreme climates of this wide brown land………./sarc.

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        • #
          Bobl

          I think dopey Dan is probably wanting to prove his union run Desalination action plant isn’t a complete waste of money so he won’t care about replacing the pristine rainfall derived water with toxic laden sea water derived man-made water and using a few Gigawatts of Victoria’s now rather rare electricity to do it. I wonder what happens in the summer when dopey Dan and his union buddies need to choose between making water or blackouts.

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          • #
            Bill in Oz

            South Australia has that dilemma in Summer as well
            What to do ?
            Use rare power to desal water
            Or to use rare power to live a normal life ?

            50

          • #
            Another Ian

            ” in the summer when dopey Dan and his union buddies need to choose between making water ”

            Isn’t that what they do to the rest of the population all year?

            10

        • #
          Sambar

          Yes, snow melt does make its way eventually into the lake but a minor problem this year is a complete lack of snow. Following the best start to the ski season “evah”, in May, practically no further snow has fallen. Ski conditions at Buller, Stirling and that problematic “resort” Lake Mountain are non existant.( Lake Mountain melt doesn’t run into the lake) Last few days have been mild, night time temps about 6 degrees. Lake Eildon has about a 25% recharge capacity in an average year, so even if we get back to “average” rainfall the lake will struggle to make it to 50% capacity by the start of the irrigation season. Oh , and don’t forget that new demand for water to generate electricity when other systems can’t produce. That good old quick response from hydro is exactly what Melbourne needs, and hydro you know, is renewable. (sarc)

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            Annie

            Sambar, it seems you are quite near to us but we have had some pretty cold nights and early mornings, assuming our little AWS has it more or less right.
            1/7 min 8C @ 0015
            2/7 ” 2C @ 0645
            3/7 ” 6C @ 0345
            4/7 ” -2C @ 0643
            5/7 ” 0C @ 0813
            6/7 ” 0C @ 0742
            7/7 ” 3C @ 0737

            Back in late June we had consecutive mins. of -1C, -3C, -5C, -4C, -3C, -3C, 1C, 11C, 6C. So warming up for a couple of days, then chilly again until later today. We have had, so far, 8.2mm of rain this afternoon and evening.

            20

            • #
              Annie

              Apparently there is ‘snow’ for toboganning at Lake Mountain atm, produced by snow-making machinery. There were lots of vehicles heading up there through Marysville this morning! The early falls have gone but more is forecast during the week.

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              Sambar

              Hi Annie, Yes I’m just upstream a bit. I don’t have a home weather station, just the local radio. I would agree that your late june temps are spot on, severe frost damage to the citrus trees again ! Our ( local ) july mornings to date have all been mild, no frosts and no insistance by the other half to crank the fire up, thats a good indicator that its not to cold. Few points of rain overnight but the early morning excursion around the block was done without the coat. I don’t understand the manmade snow bit at Lake Mountain, it always was a bit problematical re natural snow so why put the equipment there if the temperatures fluctuate above the zero point. It is a money maker though, I remember the days when it was FREE to go up the hill, now a minor lottery win is required to get through the gate. We chase the snow around the other high points for the grand kids, much more fun. Light a fire, pull your own toboggan uphill and watch out for sticks and stumps on the way down. We can see Mount Torbreck from our place, not a patch of snow to be seen

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                Annie

                We don’t live in Marysville. My OH is the part-time vicar there. We can see Mt Cathedral from our place, certainly no snow on that. We have had frost enough to damage some of our citrus. I’m just hoping that we don’t get the severe damage of two years ago; definitely a bit borderline for citrus here. It’s great for apple varieties that need a good winter chill.
                Our stove has been going for weeks and weeks now. We have just cut up a load of old fence posts, red gum. That should see us through the rest of this winter. In the coldest weather we also light our little ‘Squirrel’ stove when we are sitting at the far end of the living room to read.

                10

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      Graeme#4

      Haven’t checked the current July temps against the average yet, but I believe that it hasn’t been that cold in the SW of WA, just very wet. Very few excursions down to 5 degrees or below, but this seems to have been the pattern over the last few years – cooler summers and warmer winters.

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    Sambar

    Just heard reported that South Australia will legislate to ban “single use” plastics. Interestingly the definition of “single use” appears quite tight. The main drift appears to be the banning of plastic straws, plastic cutlery, plastic cups. The report noticed that what seemed to be a notable exception was plastic coated paper coffee cups. Hmm now all of these soon to be banned items all appear to be literally the light weight stuff that probably breaks down quite quickly in the environment. No mention that I can find about that huge volume single use plastic container, the plastic drink bottle. I am sure that one 2 litre fizzy drink bottle would make possibly 100 straws, 10 sets of knives and forks etc. What will the people that buy bottled water drink it out of, glass? Once again, virtue signaling government has / will achieve NOTHING from introducing this useless legislation. They will of course drive costs up, need a new level of government to manage the new rules and offer no alternatives. Well at least two alternatives will be paper for straws and cups probably wax coated rather than plastic and wood for disposable cutlery. How will the cutting of more trees be a better environmental outcome than useing plastics that will either be redirected to other areas, or the feed stock simply flamed to atmosphere if feed stocks are surpus to requirements?

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      WXcycles

      Well at least two alternatives will be paper for straws and cups probably wax coated rather than plastic and wood for disposable cutlery.

      i.e. just like the 1970s – progress

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        David Wojick

        There is no way out of here. This is important when it comes to policy. The greens have backed themselves into the box of their own making.

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        Bobl

        Which I find all rather odd since plastic replaced paper in the “save the trees” campaigns in the 70%. For my part I’m pretty welcoming of a return to non toxic glass bottles apart from the obvious disadvantages. (Glass bottles used to start most of the bushfires by forming inadvertent lenses at the curves, and the obvious fact that broken glass is sharp)

        Still on the paper thing I love to remind the ones on the edge of having their heads explode that paper (wood) is a polymer (plastic) commonly called cellulose and that paper is a highly refined version of that with energy cost far beyond man – made polymers. Why wouldn’t we then use man-made cellulose (celluloid) or by extension other man made polymers instead? Wax of course is also a long chain hydrocarbon polymeric substance albeit not quite as cross linked.

        But, sigh, environmentalists don’t “DO” chemistry while the DO” their chai latte skinny goat coffee at the local gathering point.

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      Graeme#4

      Plastics will be the alarmists next big thing – Greenpeace are already moving to this meme. When AGW runs out of steam, Plastics will take over.

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  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    If only they had a carbon (sic) tax …

    Dive beneath the pyramids of Egypt’s black pharaohs

    “The 2,300-year-old royal tomb of a Nubian pharaoh appears nearly untouched—and submerged in rising groundwater. What’s an archaeologist to do?

    They reached the opening of the tomb this January and discovered that the entrance was now completely underwater, most likely due likely due to rising groundwater caused by natural and human-induced [global warming], intensive agriculture near the site, and the construction of modern dams along the Nile.”

    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/culture/2019/07/dive-ancient-pyramid-nuri-sudan/

    Wait. What?

    Groundwater depletion linked to [global warming]

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/01/130128104747.htm

    If carbon (sic) causes both rising groundwater tables and lowers groundwater tables, how do you know when global warming is fixed?

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    • #
      Sambar

      As always, the solution to any promlem has to be complicated and filled with high drama. Why wouldn’t they just pump the water out? to simple? to easy?

      40

    • #
      sophocles

      … it’s fixed when the water level stops changing.

      10

  • #
    David Wojick

    A witty bit of mine:
    https://www.cfact.org/2019/07/06/is-trump-the-wittiest-president/

    For some reason I am not listed as the author, but I am pretty sure it was me. (Also a joke. It was me.)

    20

  • #
    David Wojick

    A witty bit of mine:
    https://www.cfact.org/2019/07/06/is-trump-the-wittiest-president/

    For some reason I am not listed as the author, but I am pretty sure it was me. (Also a joke. It was me.)

    30

    • #
      Hanrahan

      Interesting that “you” didn’t mention Reagan. And Eleanor Roosevelt was supposed to have a wit, but I concede she was never a President.

      20

  • #
    C. Paul Barreira

    For those interested in at least minimal science see this article on The Watchers. The research from a team led by Valentina Zharkova appears here.

    The implications remain to be seen or, perhaps more accurately, felt.

    50

  • #
    Robber

    The vagaries of Vic electricity prices within the national market (excl WA/NT).
    Last 12 months average Vic price per AEMO $109.81/MWhr compared to NSW $88.56.
    Last 3 months: April $98; May $92; June $102 (NSW $78; $79: $91)
    Weekly averages since start of June: $122; $81; $121; $82; $78
    Some correlation to total demand in GW: 25.2;23.5;25.7;24.8;24.0
    It would appear that hydro and gas generators that supply the last incremental GigaWatt have the power to deliver a bonus of about $40/MWhr to every supplier in the Vic/SA/Tas complex.
    What will it take to return Vic wholesale electricity prices back to $80/MWhr?

    60

    • #
      Another Ian

      “What will it take to return Vic wholesale electricity prices back to $80/MWhr?”

      Sanity?

      50

    • #
      yarpos

      Just a little bit more of that renewables created “downward pressure” on prices. It will work this time , really it will, Daniel and Lily told me so.

      Just one more wafer, monsieur style, for the Python fans.

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  • #
    Turtle

    Read an article about the upcoming 50th anniversary of the moon landing. The author claimed that the 1968 photo of the earth was the “birth of the modern environmental movement’. So some people saw the earth from a distance and thought it looked small and fragile. I guess the sun looks small and fragile from a distance too. If you have no sense of perspective.

    What was not mentioned was that Buzz Aldrin saw the earth from space and is a SKEPTIC.

    I suspect we will see more of this in the next fortnight.

    The real message of course is that NASA, who ignorant warmist defer to instead of knowing any facts, used to put men on the moon and now just wets the bed over flawed science.

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  • #
    pat

    4 Jul: BBC: ‘Grave concern’ as sales of low emission cars fall
    The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (LINK) said the fall in alternatively fuelled cars, such as hybrid electric vehicles, was “a grave concern”.
    It said efforts to sell such cars were being undermined by confusing policies and “premature” removal of subsidies…

    The SMMT said sales of plug-in hybrid cars in June had halved since the same month a year earlier, while hybrid electric vehicle sales were down 4.7%…
    In last year’s Budget, subsidies for plug-in hybrids were scrapped, and reduced for battery electric vehicles…
    “Manufacturers have invested billions to bring these vehicles to market but their efforts are now being undermined by confusing policies and the premature removal of purchase incentives…
    Charging points on streets with no off-street parking is a particular challenge…
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48865702

    30 Jun: SMH: Why some in Britain are laughing at Australia’s approach to electric vehicles
    By Nick O’Malley
    (Nick O’Malley travelled to the UK as a guest of the Climate Council)
    Char.gy is one of a raft of companies in the UK thriving due to the rapid uptake of electric vehicles. The industry is thriving with the support of the UK government, which sees the electrification of transport linked to large-scale renewable energy as crucial in its efforts to cut carbon emissions, and the London government, which is seeking to reduce pollution in the city…
    https://www.smh.com.au/national/why-some-in-britain-are-laughing-at-australia-s-approach-to-electric-vehicles-20190629-p522jv.html

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    • #
      pat

      AFR thinks just quoting percentages will make this growth look ‘incredible’:

      4 Jul: AFR: ‘Incredible’ growth in hybrids from ‘tiny’ start: Toyota
      by Angela Macdonald-Smith
      In May, hybrid variants accounted for 57.7 per cent of Camry sales and 44.9 per cent of Corolla sales, while for the RAV4, where hybrids are a more recent addition, they reached 62.5 per cent.
      That compares with only “tiny” sales initially after Toyota Australia launched its first hybrid in October 2001, and to the situation 3-5 years ago when hybrids were “lucky to have been 5 per cent” of total Camry sales, Mr Hanley said…

      Pure electric vehicles, which are charged from a power point, only accounted for 0.2 per cent of new car sales across Australia in 2018 and are forecast by Bloomberg New Energy Finance to reach only about 4 per cent by 2023…
      https://www.afr.com/business/energy/incredible-growth-in-hybrids-from-tiny-start-toyota-20190704-p523yu

      New Daily employs a similar trick, but at least provides the ***figures:

      5 Jul: TheNewDaily: The sales statistics that show the electric car surge is underway in Australia
      by Jason Murphy
      (Jason Murphy is an economist, author and journalist who has worked for Federal Treasury)
      Sales of hybrid vehicles and electric vehicles doubled in the first six months of 2019, compared to the first six months of 2018, even as total new car sales fell 8.4 per cent.
      As the next charts show, the doubling came from a low base. Petrol and diesel are still 97 per cent of the market – but the trajectory hints the future could soon look different…
      ***CHARTS – FIGURES

      If electric vehicles alone were able to continue to double their sales each year for the next ten years, the simple maths of the situation would see them come to represent around half the market, as the next graph shows.
      The situation in the above graph is purely hypothetical…
      https://thenewdaily.com.au/life/auto/2019/07/05/electric-cars-australia/

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      • #
        Bill in Oz

        Cheapest way to drive is LPG
        $0.74.9 a liter in Mt Barker last night.
        And for the climate ‘worriters’ reading here
        LPG produces only 30% of the CO2 produced by Petrol & diesel…
        So you can ‘save’ the planet on the cheap !
        Bonus !

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        • #
          yarpos

          Seems to be going the way of the dodo though. I keep hearing reports of its avaialability diminishing (faster in some Staes than others) and it not being included in station refurbs. Volumes must be down quite a bit with the death of the Oz made taxi industry.

          I’m yet to see any impact in the 200km around me, so I will carry on hopefully LPGing. My truck is closing in on half a million klms so I am guessing and engine refurb/transplant/swap is somewhere in the forseeable future. I can think about fuel type then.

          10

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        The more i think about electric cars, the dumber it gets.

        Unless……

        There is to be in europe a law to make all cars sold after 2022 basically a speed limiter and later use of a black box to record everything the car does. So its control over your movements, and putting an electronic snitch in every car. I do suspect these black boxes may be…..er…..very vulnerable to pulsed electrical fields.

        Electric cars make no sense….unless youre trying to lock peoples movements down. The speed limiter and black box are basically a clumsy, hamfisted retro fit of the limitations of electric cars into petrol cars.

        The aim is the same…control of your movement.

        Abd just like the distance limitations of electric cars, whats not to say the black box couldnt also create a geo-fence by GPS, where the car shuts down if you drive outside a specific area, or you do more km per week than you have been rationed to, “to save the planet”? Or wil rego be so high people will have to revert to being peasants on push bikes….to “save the planet”?

        Its all about controlling us pesky nasty little humans…..

        20

  • #
    pat

    6 Jul: LA Times: Bloomberg: Slow transition to electric cars dooms BMW chief Harald Krueger
    by Elisabeth Behrmann and Benedikt Kammel
    When BMW picked Harald Krueger to run the company more than four years ago, he was the perfect candidate. Young, with a personable manner and decades of experience across the company, Krueger appeared ready to guide the venerable luxury car maker into a future of electric, self-driving and shared automobiles.

    But on Friday — two weeks before his contract came up for renewal — Krueger quit. Instead of leading the company through the biggest upheaval in a generation, he was felled by the transition as he failed to provide a road map to the future…
    “The path BMW set out for Krueger wasn’t easy,” said Frank Biller, an analyst at Landesbank Baden-Wuerttemberg in Stuttgart. “BMW has traditionally picked executives with less emotional flair and more of a technical, engineering background. Car electrification is a very emotional topic.”…

    At Krueger’s first major public appearance, at the Frankfurt car show in September 2015, the CEO collapsed on stage minutes into a presentation. He blamed the episode on dehydration and too many hours flying…

    Krueger’s departure serves as a warning to the new executives running at least half a dozen of the industry’s top companies. Electric vehicles offer nowhere near the same returns as combustion vehicles. And selling electrics remains a struggle without major incentives as consumers balk at patchy charging infrastructure, high prices and limited driving range…
    https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-bmw-ceo-krueger-electric-cars-20190706-story.html

    smug Malcolm Farr sees no downsides:

    7 Jul: news.com.au: Electric vehicle sales set to surge as early as 2021
    One category of buyers are set to super charge Australia’s switch to electric vehicles whether the country likes it or not.
    by Malcolm Farr
    Labor had been forecasting 50 per cent of new vehicles sold in 2030 would be EVs and that infrastructure had to be installed in advance…
    The warnings from Scott Morrison, by the kindest assessment, were misleading.
    But business has not fallen for the stunt.
    Nor have climate change observers worried by the high level of emissions from transport, particularly the nation’s car fleet…
    There are about 9,100 EVs in Australia, some 25 per cent lower than the much smaller New Zealand market…
    https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/electric-vehicle-sales-set-to-surge-as-early-as-2021/news-story/0b94d81a68f15d73a2440c2ddf70741c

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  • #

    Want to see something so vanishingly small as to be totally inconsequential?

    Battery Storage in the U.S. (look closely at the image)

    Note the Battery storage in the bottom corner, of the bottom corner of the bottom corner, of the bottom corner square.

    So, battery storage makes up ….. 0.000024% ….. and yes, that is 4 zeroes after the decimal point, so that’s 24 Millionths of a percent.

    It’s a similar percentage here in Oz, so now imagine for the U.S. what the cost might be here.

    Take that Hornsdale battery cost, you know, the biggest battery storage in the World, guessed at $50 Million.

    So the cost here would be in the vicinity of $2.2 Trillion ….. just to get that Battery storage up to, umm, ONE PERCENT.

    And that one percent is still vanishingly small.

    Then you have to charge the batteries, as this is not NEW power. You either use that power as it is being generated or divert it all to charge the batteries.

    So, it’s not even solving a problem.

    That chart at the link is what needs to be sheeted home to all those green urgers who say that battery storage is the way of the future.

    Tony.

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    • #
      Bill in Oz

      Tony, funny how the facts
      Show this battery, wind & solar
      Craziness
      Utter Craziness !
      Thank you for persisting each day
      And presenting the facts.

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    • #
      yarpos

      I think we can acknowledge that battery might prove useful in time shifting power (more meaningful for off gridders and electric gate openers) and in the grid maybe to support FCAS.

      As far as mainstream grid operations go they are just a prop so fanboys can wave their hands and just says , batteries, wonderful, just around the corner when they want to combat reality. Jay did get to share a stage with Elon, so that is pretty wonderful and well worth spending $50-100mill of other peoples money.

      20

    • #
      Richard Ilfeld

      Heck, Tony, its probably mostly overnight charging of golf carts (the truly practical electric vehicle, if anything associated with golf can be practical). Golf courses are probably net carbon dioxide sinks. So that’s nice.

      On a little more serious note, considering that you manage, without the resources of a large foundation, university, or government, (or so it seems)to track power from a number of sources I am surprised that I can’t really find this anywhere in the non-paywalled economic press (Forbes, Bloomberg, Fortune, etc.). I can think of few baseline statistics more accurately tracking economic activity for a society overall than energy use…corrected for heating and cooling degree days & day length it was almost perfect as I recall a limited look a couple of decades ago. It is fair to say the USEAI does present good numbers (amidst the propaganda) and is current through 2018, until you try to tie the front page graphs to the underlying data and get around all the N/A entries.

      SO here’s another KUDO for all the hard work you do. It seems pretty unique in all the world.

      20

  • #
    Chad

    A little help pleas guys (and gals. ,)
    I have been trying to find clarification on the Isotope analysis of atmospheric CO2.in an attempt to confirm the amount of Fossil based ( Anthopogenic) CO2 in the current mix.
    Some alarmist claim most/all the 120 ppm rise since 1800 is all Fossil sourced , but i am sure the isotope analysis does not support that view.
    I understand that the C12/C13 ratio has changed from -7.5 to -8.5 (tricky units !) .. but i can find no clear translation of that change to an equivalent “ppm” number.
    The alarmists (and IPCC) suggest it represents 120ppm (40% by vol) but my amature physics suggests it is more like 20 ppm (<5% ?)
    … which blows much of the AGW argument out of the sky.
    Can anybody clarify or reference suitable sources ?
    Thanks

    40

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Chad:

      I will leave this up to the experts but C12 is almost 99% of atmospheric CO2.
      C13 is a stable isotope and supposedly not absorbed as well as C12 based CO2 by plants.
      C14 is unstable with a halflife of 5,730 years. So by measuring the amount of C14 in organic matter (no longer growing) you can estimate its age BUT C14 is produced by cosmic rays so you have to adjust that age for periods of low solar activity (lower solar wind – Earth’s magneto sphere strength).

      The short answer is that C13 occurs in nature, doesn’t decompose and would be present in oil and coal at much the same level as when they were formed. I cannot see how the plants can tell the difference, very few plants have a mass spectrometer running.

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    • #
      • #
        Chad

        Interesting Ian, ..and i accept much of the doubts.
        But strangely they completely ignor the C14 component , the absence of which is the Fossil fuel signature..due to its short half life.
        My understanding is the C13/12 ratio is a “indicator” of the missing C14.
        There have been several papers on the subject, but few go beyond the ratio value to suggest exactly how much fossil sourced CO2 is present ?

        10

        • #
          Another Ian

          Chad

          From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon-14

          “There are three naturally occurring isotopes of carbon on Earth: carbon-12, which makes up 99% of all carbon on Earth; carbon-13, which makes up 1%; and carbon-14, which occurs in trace amounts, making up about 1 or 1.5 atoms per 1012 atoms of carbon in the atmosphere.”

          So not much effect there

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        • #
          Kinky Keith

          Hi Chad,

          I understand your inquisitiveness, it’s an interesting sideline, but the real issue is that Human Origin CO2 does not “accumulate” in the atmosphere in any way different to “natural” origin CO2.

          I appreciate the link provided that shows differential uptake of one isotope, but really, that’s only a discussion on trace quantities that seem to be used by biologists for analyzing plant development. In terms of blaming human origin CO2 for something I really don’t think it’s relevant.

          KK

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    • #
      Graeme#4

      The figure I have for human CO2 emission is 3.18%, made up of 2.76% for fossil fuel combustion and 0.9% for land use/deforestation. Unfortunately, don’t have a link to the source of this information.
      A WUWT comment, 31 December 2018, states: “Human influence is not clear because human production is within the error of the estimates of two major natural sources, the oceans and rotting vegetation. You cannot separate human production from the noise of non-human production.”

      30

      • #
        Chad

        Graeme 4
        Thanks , but it is not the emissions i am looking at,..it is the residual anthropogenic CO2 in the atmosphere as a proportion of the toral CO2.
        The alarmist’s believe it is as much as 40%,.. IE the 120 ppm increase since 1850.

        00

        • #
          Graeme#4

          Ok Chad. I’m certainly no expert on CO2. However, I see on WUWT, William Happer seems to be happy to discuss CO2 issues. Is it worth sending him an email?

          00

        • #
          Kinky Keith

          Chad, the residual human origin CO2 is always going to be as Graeme said, 3.18%.

          Consider the quantities and the process.

          Despite the preferential uptake, it doesn’t alter the basic statement quantitatively; all CO2 is treated equally by nature.

          Nitpicking by warmers about a micro element of a micro aspect of a massive process like the carbon cycle is just another example of mind entrainment down useless dark alleys.

          All this going on while they ignore so much real pollution that should be dealt with.

          KK

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        • #
          Kinky Keith

          “The alarmist’s believe it is as much as 40%,.. IE the 120 ppm increase since 1850.”

          Total scientific rubbish, misdirection.

          KK

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      • #
        Graeme No.3

        Assuming that their figure is correct, then it calculates as equivalent to 3.59 p.p.m. CO2 due to fossil fuel burning, or about 0.03℃. And since their basic idea is riddled with doubts the effect of fossil fuel burning is much less important than fossil fools fuming.

        20

        • #
          Chad

          ? Who’s figure Graeme ?
          NOAA ?
          I posted a link to a paper on the CO2web by Tom Segalstad
          The distribution of CO2 between atmosphere, hydrosphere, and lithosphere; minimal influence from anthropogenic CO2 on the global “Greenhouse Effect”.
          Tom V. Segalstad

          But it seems posting links put posts into a holdig pattern ?.

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          • #
            Kinky Keith

            Theirs: 120.
            As Graeme says; 3.59 humans, 116.01 NATURE.

            Again, nature wins.
            We are insignificant, and that’s even before water vapour is considered, and even that’s before we consider whether the actual mechanism itself.
            It’s been suggested that the CO2 activity only occurs at very low temperatures high in the atmosphere which makes any suggestion of special heat accumulation nuts.

            KK

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        • #
          Chad

          Greame,
          Why do you say 3.59% CO2 = 0.03 degC ?
          Have you found some positive evidence of CO2 causing a temperature increase ?
          I thought that the CO2/temperature relationship was the weakest part of the IPCC/ alarmist argument ?

          10

          • #
            Chad

            Sorry…Graeme .

            00

          • #
            Graeme No.3

            Chad:

            I should have made my calculation (and grammar) clearer. I meant that if their assumptions were correct the rise 3.59 p.p.m. of CO2 could only raise the temperature by 0.03℃, otherwise their figures were wrong. I was assuming that the claimed increase in temperature caused ENTIRELY by human emissions would have the same effect. Unfortunately I didn’t save my calculations.

            If you use the Ideal Gas Law you can calculate the surface temperature of Venus to 398℃ v’s the usual figure of 400℃. Also works for rocky planets with some atmospheric pressure (not Mars or Mercury). That’s to 0.5% accuracy which far exceeds anything the IPCC can claim.
            So thinking that CO2 might have some slight warming effect, I recalculated the Earth’s temperature in the Jurassic and Cretaceous eras and found the dinosaurs had all died of heat stroke. So I calculated the effect if our atmosphere got to 820 p.p.m. of CO2 and got a temperature rise of 0.07℃.
            Now the IDEAL gas law isn’t that accurate for this purpose, so the actual rise might be less than 0.07℃ or just possibly as high as 0.4℃ as calculated differently by Richard Lindzen (and others).

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      • #
        Kinky Keith

        Highly relevant.

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        • #
          Chad

          KK,
          I think we have a communication issue here..
          Its easy to dismiss the IPCC figures (40%, 120ppm), and throw up another ser (0.9%, 3.59ppm), but it wont get us far unless we can show proof or at least supporting data.
          Just using the ratio of emissions is far too simplistic and itself easily dismissed .
          You have to argue with data not assumptions.
          I believe the isotope analysis does provide proof of low anthropogenic CO2 in the atmosphere….but we need to understand the data collected by NOAA and such.
          What does a “2.0 mill” reduction in the C13/12 ratio actually mean in ppm of fossil emissions ??
          So far we have ..
          IPCC..40%, 120ppm
          G3/You. ..0.9%, 3.59ppm
          Segalstad…4.0%, 16 ppm. (The best scientific analysis i have seen so far)
          That is a crazy range of possibilities, and obviously cannot all be correct.

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          • #
            Kinky Keith

            How much each of C12, C13, C14 are now in the atmosphere?

            TdeF would know. I’m not going to look it up because for me this is a dead end.
            Fact, accepted by All: human origin CO2 is about 4% of atmospheric CO2.
            Fact: nature will not discriminate wrt the CO2 it uses or sequesters in the oceans.

            The very small change in isotope variants due to selective use by plants is not going to physically change the fact that Human Origin CO2 will remain at 4%.
            Any suggestion that some mythical variation in atmospheric CO2 is all due to humans is simply extreme religious expression.

            KK

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    • #
      Kinky Keith

      Another aspect of this Chad is that regardless of isotopic ID, each CO2 molecule is treated equally by nature.

      This means that when plants need CO2 they will take what’s available, including CO2 of human origin.

      It’s been some time since I checked but I think there are studies that indicate complete turnover of atmospheric CO2 in 4.5 years.
      If I’m mistaken about this the very worst situation is that the half life of CO2 in air is just over 7 years.
      The practical implication is that if all human activity on Earth suddenly ceased half of the human origin CO2 would be gone in 7 years.
      Rates of turnover will be different for different locations, so for example you might expect high turnover of CO2 near oceans which have constant surf and associated extra entrainment of air due to wave activity

      Complex.

      KK

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        • #
          Chad

          Thanks Howie, thats pretty heavy reading, and useful background, but does not directly clarify the atmospheric CO2 composition.

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      • #
        Chad

        KK,
        There is a LOT of scientific research that shows plants, and oceans, are very selective in preferentially adsorbing CO2 isotopes.
        See some of those references Howie linked to below.

        00

        • #
          Kinky Keith

          Hi Chad,
          Yes, no doubt there’s some interesting science in that but my point is it doesn’t help understand the global warming issue to get involved in what may be fascinating, but is essentially a wild goose chase.

          In countering the UNIPCCC we need to avoid losing energy and direction by reacting to every straw man they put up.

          The one gigantic fact is that Human Origin CO2 has nothing to do with the so called Global Warming problem.

          KK

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          • #
            Chad

            Kk,
            Take a step back from the “warming” side of the issue, and just think of the CO2 “origin” factor.
            If we can show there is at most a small % of fossil CO2 involved, the the whole AGW argument, and associated bulldust, becomes a non issue.
            Its no point in just stating “ only 4% of all CO2 in the atmosphere is from human origin”. Without supporting data it is just as easy to dismiss as the IPCCs 40% and we are no further forward, and no smarter than the alarmists.
            Now, there areeven eminent skeptics who accept that human/fossil CO2 is accumulating in the atmosphere, (though i have no idea what they base that on)..and prefer to just debate the warming causes
            The isotope “fingerprint” is significant enough for NOAA to log it change and can be the “smoking gun” to kill whole AGW debate.
            Just to be clear….
            I agree with you that there is approx 4% (15-20 ppm) of anthopogenic CO2 in the atmosphere, but we will need to have convincing evidence and data to convince the committed alarmists.

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    pat

    nothing political about CAGW:

    TWEET: Michael E. Mann
    Sorry it’s raining on your parade @realDonaldTrump
    But it’s an apt metaphor…
    4 Jul 2019

    TWEET: Extinction Rebellion PDX
    Expanding the Overton Window: Climate scientist @MichaelEMann says on the @HillTVLive (new video channel from @thehill, which has 3M followers) that “We need a world-war type mobilization” to respond to climate change.
    5 Jul 2019

    VIDEO: 58sec: 4 Jul: The Hill: Climate scientist calls for ‘world war type mobilization’ to combat climate change
    by Tess Bonn
    “We do need a world-war type mobilization and that means putting in place incentives to move our economy as quickly as we can away from fossil fuels to renewable energy,” Mann, a scientist at Pennsylvania State University who is known for taking on climate skeptics, told Hill.TV in an interview that aired Wednesday.
    “Now how we do that, there’s a legitimate policy debate to be had about how we do that but there isn’t a legitimate debate to be had anymore about the need to do that,” he added.

    Mann warned that lawmakers should take immediate action, arguing that the Trump administration is actively seeking to dismantle 50 years of environmental protections put in place by both Democratic and Republican administrations.
    He pointed to Trump’s rollback of the Clean Power Plan, a 2015 Obama-era policy aimed at combatting greenhouse gas emissions from power plants, as an example.
    Mann also argued that Trump is “committed to denying” climate change and has pushed to prevent the government from taking the issue into account when making policy decisions…

    During his interview, Mann voiced support for a number of Democrats seeking to take on Trump in 2020, arguing that any of the Democratic hopefuls would prove to be a better alternative on the issue of climate action than the current administration.
    “There’s a world of difference of where the Trump administration is and all of the Democrats and I would hate to see too much infighting at this point,” Mann told Hill.TV. “Let’s make sure that we elect a president who’s not going to continue to lead us backward and defy the rest of the world as we try to work on this existential threat.”…
    https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/451497-climate-scientist-michael-mann-calls-for-world-war-type-mobilization-to-combat

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      pat

      Images – 4th July Salute to America 2019
      https://imgur.com/a/1zHYuDy

      PICS: 5 Jul: ZeroHedge: Media Predictions Of “Tiny Crowd” For Trump July 4 Speech Proven Wrong
      by Tyler Durden
      Authored by Paul Joseph Watson via Summit.news,
      The media ran headlines right up to the day of President Trump’s July 4 speech predicting only a “tiny crowd” would show up. How spectacularly wrong they were.
      An Independent article titled ‘Trump officials ‘fear embarrassingly tiny crowd’ for his Fourth of July speech’ was typical of the coverage.

      In reality, photos from the event show crowds stretching the full length of the national mall.
      According to the media, this is “tiny”…
      In fact the only only “tiny” crowd was the one that showed up with the Trump baby balloon.
      That was really tiny.
      https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-07-05/media-predictions-tiny-crowd-trump-july-4-speech-proven-spectacularly-wrong

      theirABC – no pic of the crowd. taxpayers pay for this Duffy jerk:

      5 Jul: ABC: Donald Trump hoped for a parade to rival Bastille Day, instead he got small crowds and soggy tanks
      By North America Correspondent Conor Duffy in Washington DC
      But like a handshake with French President Emmanuel Macron, the American leader was once again left crushed…
      The heavy rain that fell on his Fourth of July event made the tanks look a little sad.

      By the President’s own metrics — crowd size and TV ratings — the show fell short of expectations too.
      Only one network took the speech live and the crowd size was measured in the thousands, rather than the hundreds of thousands promised by Mr Trump…

      Protesters were there too, dragging along with them a giant balloon called the Trump Baby…
      Some Americans also told me that it was jarring to see tanks in front of the Lincoln Memorial…
      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-05/donald-trumps-dream-of-a-parade-to-rival-bastille-day-washed-out/11276750

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Man oh Mann, sounds like money for “research” is drying up.

      20

  • #
    Rupert Gregg

    Has anyone else subjected themselves to the atrocity called 2040?
    Be strong is all I can counsel. Your kids and grandkids will be seeing it soon. Be afraid.

    01

    • #
      el gordo

      “Why were you guys thinking?”

      Propaganda for those not completely wired up.

      The reality is that within a few years AGW will be falsified because of a quiet sun, so by 2040 there will be coal fired power stations everywhere. Apart from energy they will be fertilising, to stave off CO2 starvation.

      30

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      Non science fantasy !
      If it scares, it sells !
      By 2040 when this is shown to be factually bullsh*t
      They will long have made their cash and gone.

      10

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Rupert:

      Try the antidote

      Climate Change: The Maldives Mystery

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p51t2MHcms

      00

  • #
    pat

    5 Jul: BBC: Electric cars ‘will not solve transport problem,’ report warns
    By Roger Harrabin
    Car use will still need to be curbed even when all vehicles are powered by clean electricity, a report has said.
    It warns that electrifying cars will not address traffic jams, urban sprawl and wasted space for parking.
    The Centre for Research into Energy Demand Solutions (CREDS) report calls on the government to devise a strategy allowing people to have a good standard of living without needing a car…

    CREDS is an academic consortium of more than 80 academics across the UK.
    “Car use is a massive blind spot on government policy,” Prof Jillian Anable, one of the authors of the report, said…
    “They need to reduce demand instead.”…
    But, they point out that many young people in cities are choosing not to buy cars…

    Will driverless cars help?
    The report warns this dream could also turn sour as car owners may choose to live many miles from their workplace, using their car as a mobile office while sitting in traffic jams they have helped to create.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48875361

    4 Jul: Guardian: Enough of the climate nightmare. It’s time to paint the dream
    A new approach must connect the climate crisis with inequality to offer a compelling and attractive way forward for society
    by Ed Miliband
    (Ed Miliband is Labour MP for Doncaster North and a former leader of the Labour party)
    Let’s talk about the dream, not just the nightmare. Imagine the cities and towns of the future: clean, green, with decent air quality, hospitable to walking and cycling, powered by renewables, with green space, not concrete jungles, and rewarding jobs in green industries. That isn’t just a conceit for the imagination but a tangible vision of the future produced today by Common Wealth, the thinktank of which I am a board member…

    A Green New Deal – conceived of in the UK, popularised by US congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and now powered by social movements here – should not just decarbonise today’s economy but build the sustainable and just economy of tomorrow…

    That (climate) movement has an unprecedented chance to be heard as a result of the spectacular success of Extinction Rebellion and the school climate strikes in refocusing public attention on the urgency of action. But now, with people listening once again, our duty is to offer a compelling and attractive vision of the future…

    For far too long, progressives – myself included – have talked about the climate emergency and economic justice separately…
    We need to change the way we heat 27m homes and power our industries, take 40m petrol and diesel cars off the road and plant tens of thousands of hectares of trees every year. In other words, we need the biggest peacetime mobilisation of labour, land and investment we have ever seen…
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/04/enough-climate-nightmare-paint-dream-inequality

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Feet, the car you have when you aren’t allowed to have a car.

      Everybody will live in small apartments in 40 story blocks so they can get where they want to go. They just have to be careful crossing the road as the elites sped by in their allowed cars, and not be caught indoors during prolonged blackouts, when the elevators don’t work as well as the heating or cooking or refrigeration. Oh, silly me, that’s why Amazon is developing drones; food etc. delivered to your (teeny weeny) balcony.

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      • #
        Another Ian

        Somewhere I saw a thought that a British electric car with electrics by Lucas might leave you in need of feet.

        00

    • #
      StephenP

      And what effect will all this self-flagelation have on global temperatures, zilch.

      00

  • #
    pat

    5 Jul: EnergyVoice: Scottish-based wind firms ‘literally’ shipping profits abroad, unions say
    by David McPhee
    Unite and GMB Unions have been objecting to the number of multi-million Scottish wind contracts going to foreign firms.
    EDF Renewables £2 billion Neart Na Gaoithe (NnG) project is understood to have agreed a multi-million manufacturing deal with Italian firm Saipem instead of local firm Burntisland Fabrication (BiFab).
    It was hoped the NnG deal would create around 500 jobs while also delivering £540 million to the local economy…

    The letter, signed by Unite and GMB Scotland secretaries Gary Smith and Pat Rafferty, claims that the lack of work coming to the local has resulted in “the mood in the community turning to anger”.
    It adds: “The blunt fact is: if we cannot achieve work in Fife from this massive development, just ten miles of its coast, then we we will simply not achieve any renewables industry of scale in Scotland.
    “We think that the people of Scotland will come to regard that as a scandal”…
    https://www.energyvoice.com/otherenergy/202962/scottish-based-wind-firms-literally-shipping-profits-abroad-unions-say/

    headline on ABC’s “Just In” page:

    ‘It’s happening now’: Climate change threatens public health, and we’re seeing its effects already
    ABC Health & Wellbeing By health reporter Olivia Willis

    actual headline – ***theirABC still believes we just had a climate change election and they won:

    6 Jul: ABC: The health impacts of climate change and why ***calls for action are growing louder
    ABC Health & Wellbeing By health reporter Olivia Willis
    Last November, planetary health professor Tony Capon co-authored the first national report (LINK) to track Australia’s progress on climate change and human health.
    It coincided with the release of a global report from leading medical journal The Lancet, which warned climate change is “the biggest global health threat of the 21st century”…
    Since then, calls for climate action from health bodies and medical professionals have grown louder…
    In Australia, heatwaves cost more lives than all other natural hazards combined…

    Extreme weather events can cause physical injuries, respiratory problems, psychological distress, and in some cases, death, Professor Capon said…
    By some projections, climate change — if left unmitigated — is expected to result in a further 1.4 billion instances of people being exposed to drought per year, and 2 billion instances of people being exposed to floods by the end of the century…

    Perhaps more urgently, the declines seen in farming productivity pose challenges to rural community morale and the mental health of farmers and their families, Professor Capon said…

    Health benefits of climate action…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2019-07-06/health-impacts-of-climate-change/11282926

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  • #
    Zane

    Another scare story in the local rag, the Surf Coast Echo. They are tipping that sea levels will probably rise by 20 cm over the next 20 years, and that this will present problems for low lying parts of the Bellarine peninsula, which lies south of Geelong. Hmmm. I went for a walk along the Torquay surf beach this morning and sea levels are about the same as, oh, 50 years ago. So I would think there is a good likelihood they might remain moderately stable for the foreseeable future. But no, the media even down to local level, sees a need to frighten schoolchildren with spectres of looming disasters that will never happen. Sad is what it is, and people should demand an end to this nonsense.

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    • #
      yarpos

      A centimetre a year for the next 20 years. That seems quite riculous, however the consultants have been paid and the grants will be forthcoming. The good folk of Brighton are reshaping their foreshore into a concrete wonderland as we speak.

      20

  • #
    pat

    6 Jul: Scotsman: Brian Wilson: Fife offshore windfarm scandal should see SNP Ministers sacked
    by Brian Wilson
    Post-referendum, Ministers made a fateful error – a single consent covered not only NnG but three windfarms in the same sea area. Critically, only NnG was poised to win subsidy under the Contract for Difference (CfD) scheme.

    The RSPB spotted their opportunity and went to the Court of Session, opposing consent on grounds of “cumulative impact”. Lord Stewart heard the case in May 2015 and ruled 15 months later in the RSPB’s favour…
    The Scottish Government had a huge potential embarrassment on its hands. So they appealed…
    In May 2017, the Inner House of the Court of Session overturned Lord Stewart’s judgment. The RSPB went straight to the Supreme Court in London which in July 2017, finally ruled against them.
    For fully two years then, the project’s very existence – and vast profitability – depended on the Scottish Government fighting the case through the courts with taxpayers’ money.

    It seems utterly astonishing that, at no point in that symbiotic relationship, did Scottish Ministers obtain bankable assurances – legal, moral or political – about what was in it for Scottish jobs and industry…

    Between 2015 and 2017, technical advances saw subsidy for offshore wind plummet. The second CfD round secured projects at barely half the rate from two years earlier.
    Thus, as the trade unions – and thank heavens for them – point out, the unplanned delays meant NnG, while benefiting from these advances, retains the higher subsidy level – an additional £130 million annual profit, the unions estimate, over the 15-year CfD contract.
    Even in these inadvertently propitious circumstances, Scotland is fighting for leftovers, reliant on goodwill from EDF and their Italian contractors who have taken the main work to Indonesia…
    We endured years of Salmond windbaggery about great renewable inward investments which all turned to dust…
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/brian-wilson-fife-offshore-windfarm-scandal-should-see-snp-ministers-sacked-1-4959930

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  • #
    Zane

    Saw a poster in a public library the other day: ” moving toward the Zero Waste Household.” Looks like the greenies social engineering won’t stop until council garbage pickups are banned and we have to bury or compost all household waste. Incinerators are a no no in most places, so burning rubbish is out. Everyone will have to keep a sheep and spin their own wool for clothing, or barter for some cotton with a farmer. Great.

    40

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      Zane there is an element of the Greenists for whom this is the goal to worked towards…

      Not all mind you..Just an element..The extreme Green of the Greenists.

      10

  • #
    TdeF

    Obama built the border detention centers. Everyone knows that. They blame Trump.
    Obama used the Betsy Ross flag. Everyone knows that. They blame Trump.
    Antifa are black covered violent thugs. Everyone knows that. The democrats see them as allies.

    Instead of moving back to the centre, the Democrats are going loopy over Trump. TDS. Trump derangement syndrome.
    Never has anyone said such horrible things about a sitting president or so openly attacked all his family, even his young son.
    There is something very wrong with the Press in the US. They should be careful. The Climate is Changing quickly.

    90

    • #
      TdeF

      Meant to be in response to 1.1.2.1. Linking to another web page in mid comment left the comment dangling at the end. The comment was about the great photo of Obama under the Betsy Ross flag.

      40

    • #
      Greg in NZ

      Obama stopped the rising seas and cooled the Earth’s fevered temperature, * everyone knows that * –

      https://electroverse.net/skiing-on-the-4th-of-july-grand-solar-minimum/

      Colorado’s Arapahoe Basin and Cullifornia’s Squaw Valley and Mammoth Mountain “all ran lifts on Thursday” July 4th Independence Day. “We are now in our eighth month of skiing and riding, and because of the early start we got this year we actually operated 12 days longer than we did in 2016-17,” Squaw spokesperson Liesl Hepburn said.

      It’s much much worserer than the models predictedin fact it’s the complete opposite! Everyone knows that (yet) they blame Trump.

      80

      • #
        Hanrahan

        I didn’t watch the Dem debates but saw some highlowlights and that bunch of crazies wouldn’t get 10% of the vote in a healthy nation. The US is far too powerful to go rogue. Be worried.

        30

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          Hanrahan:

          Try https://thepointman.wordpress.com/2019/07/04/welcome-to-clown-world-aka-the-democrat-debates/

          It might make you feel better about their chances of winning. Zilch, Nada.

          20

          • #
            yarpos

            Remember too, that this is the Dems best and brightest, the cream that rises to the top to represent the Dem cause. Scary innit? I do like the way you can do things on a grand scale in the US.

            30

            • #
              TdeF

              More like sediment. Really, old are Sanders, Biden? The Biden stuff in Ukraine where he demanded the State prosecutor was fired, the one who was investigating his son’s boss? Then the deals around the world, while Biden’s father was US VP? Biden has to retire, given what has happened to Trump. There is enough wrong stuff in Clinton/Obama/FBI to keep the police going for decades. It’s all the press can do to keep the focus on Trump.

              Now Bernie says AOC (Alexandra Occasional Cortex) is a genius. And as for Fauxcahontas, you have to be kidding. A whole career based on a lie that she was Cherokee? And she was silly enough to get a gene test to prove she wasn’t? Everyone is 1.6% Cherokee on that base level, but she didn’t understand that.

              As for campaigning in Spanish, how UnAmerican can you get?

              And no matter what happens, it’s all Climate Change. I have yet to read that the California Earthquake was Climate Change, but there is a real concern that the new hot rocks pumping system may have triggered it. Sustainable devastation.

              40

            • #
              Annie

              Scummy stuff rises to the top when you make jam, or quite a few other things. The old cookery books used to suggest ‘constantly skimming’ to remove it.

              00

          • #
            Hanrahan

            In an honest election Trump would win 48 states, buttttttt……..[Is DC a state? That might make it 47]

            10

          • #
            Greg in NZ

            Graeme, think it was via Pointman’s site I found https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/07/the-week-in-pictures-covfefe-sequel-edition.php a weekly comic take from the non-Dem side of life: cartoons, memes, newspaper headlines, etc. AOC, Bernie, Clinton, Kaepernick, and Florida Man, regularly get trounced.

            10

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  • #
    Tides of Mudgee

    An interesting story on Channel 7′s 6pm news last night. Seems there’s concern about the amount of CO2 that’s being pumped into school classrooms through air conditioning units, raising the level to 4 times the acceptable limit. The next person (in the same story) to speak mentioned how colds and flu can be transmitted through air conditioning (separate item I would have thought). But then the kicker. We switched to Prue Car, Shadow Minister for Education NSW who said “You don’t have to be a scientist to realise that CO2 in classrooms is bad for children”. Clearly not much in the way of qualifications is required to become a Shadow Minister for EDUCATION. ToM

    100

    • #
      Hanrahan

      We try to keep CO2 levels in our U.S. Navy submarines no higher than 8,000 parts per million, about 20 time current atmospheric levels. Few adverse effects are observed at even higher levels. – Senate testimony of Dr. William Happer,

      With the amount of energy available on nuclear subs, that level could be reduced if there were a compelling reason, I suspect. And having sailors alert at their stations would be such a reason if their operational fitness were impaired.

      40

    • #
      TdeF

      CO2 from airconditioning units? That’s either an electric heat pump or an evaporative unit. NO CO2 at all.
      Or even gas heaters? These are heat exchangers. That’s all nonsense. What on earth are they discussing?

      40

  • #
    Another Ian

    Suggested correction

    “Clearly not much in the way of qualifications education is required to become a Shadow Minister for EDUCATION.”

    00

  • #
    scaper...

    The warmists are Looney.

    Here is an entertaining cartoon from yore. Gave me an idea. Going to set up a toothpick factory in the Franklin Valley, Tasmania. The waste will be made into pellets, to be exported to England. A sustainable industry?

    If not the area will be damned. I prefer dammed.

    20

  • #
    pat

    2 Jul: BusinessInsider: As if the rollout of NBN hasn’t caused enough problems, NBN Co is thinking about charging you more for using Netflix
    by Sharon Masige
    •NBN Co is considering a special tax to be added to streaming services such as Netflix, according to multiple reports.
    • The company posed the question to its 50 retail service providers, asking if they would support the additional charge.
    • The proposed move could cause outrage among users as they currently don’t have to pay extra for streaming.
    As reported by Commsday and ITNews, NBN Co, the Australian government-backed broadband provider, proposed the idea in its wholesale pricing review. In the review, the top 50 retail service providers (RSPs) for feedback were asked if they would support charging a different price for the streaming of video compared to other services…

    If the proposed charges come into effect, it could mean customers would have to pay more depending on how much they stream online and that puts low-income individuals at a disadvantage…READ ALL
    https://www.businessinsider.com.au/as-if-the-rollout-of-nbn-hasnt-caused-enough-problems-nbn-co-is-thinking-about-charging-you-more-for-using-netflix-2019-7

    00

    • #
      yarpos

      The NBN would have a wonderful network if it was for all those damn customers using the bandwidth. Customers are inconsiderately using the capacity they paid for and need to be penalised in some way. Its only fair.

      60

    • #
      GD

      NBN Co is considering a special tax to be added to streaming services such as Netflix

      One more kick in the guts for people on low incomes. As if the electricity debacle wasn’t enough, now this.

      11

      • #
        GD

        So you’ve managed to keep the power on so you can cook, light your house, shower and watch Netflix.

        Well, not so quick loser, we’re gonna hit you with a streaming tax. Take that, loser. Of course, we expect you to still subscribe to our services.

        Have a nice day.

        11

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      I don’t use Netflix
      I rarely watch movies at all or their other ‘offerings’
      But my access to the internet is frequently
      Damaged because it is running so slow.
      Due to folks using Netflix
      That slowness means I only have a ‘Cafe-Net’
      I am a believer in user pays._
      So a fee for Netflix access
      Seems fair enough to me.

      10

  • #
    theRealUniverse

    For the people in the US of A.
    https://www.iceagenow.info/climate-conference-hotel-discount-ends-july-8-for-iccc13s-july-25-event-in-dc/
    “The 13th International Conference on Climate Change will feature the courageous men and women who spoke the truth about climate change during the height of the global warming scare. ”
    Hope more administrations actually take some notice of this.

    30

    • #
      RickWill

      spoke the truth about climate change during the height of the global warming scare.

      Does this imply we are over the worst of the scare or now at the worst of the scare. I am yet to be convinced that sense is prevailing. The Church of Climate has been very effective at infiltrating the hearts and minds of the young people. That wave is yet to work its way into the voting public.

      20

  • #
    GD

    Does this imply we are over the worst of the scare or now at the worst of the scare.

    The damage has been done, it will take a generation to undo the brainwashing that has infected not only the current younger generation but also all ABC viewers.

    My 89-year-old Mum is convinced that the reef is dead, that Adani will make it more dead, and that mankind is killing the planet.

    She is an avid ABC watcher.

    50

    • #
      el gordo

      This is our challenge, Ita has to convince the ABC newsroom that CO2 does not cause global warming.

      Women generally have been severely brainwashed, because of the maternal instinct and lack of interest in the scientific method. On the other hand, children and teenagers can be easily swayed back to reality by introducing red and blue teams into Earth Sciences.

      10

  • #
    Hanrahan

    Here’s a new video from Tony Heller:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WenaZWJGTxk

    00

  • #
    Hanrahan

    The Army must have gotten a few of their Eurocopter Tigers flying. They did a flyover of the V8 race on the weekend and they have been flying around my house ever since.

    They say a gold mine is a hole in the ground with a liar standing over it. Buying military equipment is a bit like that: Some sketches a liar is telling you will be the best EVA bit of hardware, after YOU pay to fix their errors.

    10

  • #
    tom0mason

    There’s a legal challenge to to BBC’s lack of impartiality coming if enough names and money can be donated…

    https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/stopbbcbias/

    10