JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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ABC Climate Zombie Myths and Fantasy Strawmen. Who’s feeding the trolls?

Skeptics are now the brain-eating undead from Haitian Cult Voodoo. Just more namecalling in lieu of science. The ABC has become the US Weekly,  TVWeek, or OK! of national policy, filled with inane clickbait animations, fictional stories and fantasy myths.

Looks like it’s projection again

Here’s a guy who believes that we control storms, floods and droughts with solar panels and wind turbines. The only climate zombie that needs hosing down is all his. He’s the one saying that the type of milk you drink, or your funeral service are to blame for random stuff like spotted quoll fertility, shark attacks, or tornadoes. Go vegan to save the planet!

Poor Nick Kilvert is so badly trained he can’t figure out why ideas like “CO2 feeds plants” just won’t die. The mystery of how the truth keeps coming back (despite their best efforts). So this weekend he put out a handy condescending guide of strawmen and mythical myths for beleaguered believers who are lost for answers to skeptical scientists. The man’s cult-like belief is so obvious, the real question we need to ask our elected MP’s is why are we funding an journalistic organization which has staff who are so incompetent, and who clearly work as ideological partisan activists? After writing an article like this, could anyone argue that Kilvert is capable of dispassionate investigative research on this topic? Kilvert, with a Bachelor of Applied Science and Honours in Ecology, apparently thinks Nobel Laureates, NASA Astronauts, Professors of Atmospheric physics are brain sucking zombie deniers, involved in a big fossil funded conspiracy.

This is the same guy who wrote climate fiction: Life at 0.5 degrees hotter: imagining an apocalypse by 2040 where 2,000 km of Barrier Reef dies and jellyfish rule the world, and where gardens are dead, err, because our rainfall increased, yeah?

This is a man making his own tin foil hat:

Have you got climate zombies? We debunk the myths that refuse to die

 Nick Kilvert

They might pop up in your social media feed, or manifest in comments under climate change news online. They might even appear at your Christmas lunch. And they’re rife in some media outlets — they often come out after dark.

They’re the cases against climate science that were buried years ago, yet somehow, refuse to die. “It’s the Milankovitch cycles”, “CO2 is good for plants anyway”, “What have the scientists ever done for us?”

You might have even been infected yourself. It’s no surprise really, a multi-billion dollar campaign funded by the likes of Donors Trust, Donors Capital Fund, Koch-affiliated foundations, and parts of the fossil fuel industry has been animating these damned corpses since the ’80s.

So consider this your own handy guide for killing the undead. Or at least a shield for deflecting their relentless pursuit of brains.

Good luck out there.

#1 CO2 doesn’t cause warming

Strawman. None of the serious skeptical scientists or main commentators say this. Kilvert couldn’t quote skeptics here because there’s no one to quote.

CO2 is a greenhouse gas, it absorbs infrared. The question is whether the clouds, humidity and jet streams amplify this warming or neutralize it. Believers assume these feedbacks are positive, put that in their models then, lo, their models tell them the feedbacks are positive. The miracle! Skeptics look at all the data (before it’s adjusted) and find that feedbacks are negative. The hot spot is the key fingerprint of feedback and it’s missing. The warming has happened before and the runaway greenhouse didn’t happen. Skeptics point out that the CO2 effect is saturated already, and water is a far more important as a greenhouse gas -- and even the IPCC agrees.

Kilvert either hasn’t done any research or is working to mislead ABC readers. Which is it? Lazy or dishonest?

#2 It’s Milankovitch cycles

Another strawman. The skeptics he debunks are imaginary creatures he has invented. The largest skeptical site in Australia (this one) has over 3 million words on it and “Milankovich” gets barely three times, none of them by me. Clearly it’s an important plank … not.

#3 There’s been a 5? 10? 20? year pause in warming

Denial again? Hans von Storch, the head of the IPCC, and other climate scientists all admitted there was a pause — they call it the global warming hiatus. They admitted the models didn’t predict it.

Flashback to 2013 when Rajendra Pachauri admited the pause had lasted 17 years:

In 2008 NOAA said that pauses of 15 years or more didn’t fit with climate simulations (so if it went longer, the models would be wrong). Likewise James Hansen was caught in ClimateGate saying that ‘no upward trend’ has to continue for a total of 15 years before we get worried.’ When the pause got a bit longer still, Ben Santer said in a paper it really was 17 years we needed to see. That was 2011.

The IPCC says: there is low confidence in quantifying the role of forcing trend in causing the surface-warming hiatus…. {WG1 8.5; WG1 Box 9.2}

Kilvert says: “This little doozy has gone a bit quiet in the past few years, though it ate quite a few brains in the early 2000s and again in 2012/13.”

He thinks 1998 is in tenth place, but that’s only in hyper-adjusted data changed with secret adjustments. The best satellite system in the world reports that year as number 2, and shows the obvious, unarguable pause. All the major datasets once showed a pause, til they were adjusted. At the same time as the pause, sea levels slowed, hurricanes paused,  deny deny deny, eh?

Deny this:

UAH, Global Temperatures, data 2018. The pause, global warming hiatus. Graph.

Anyone with an eyeball can see the pause. UAH Satellite global data, June 2019.

Energy cannot be created nor destroyed. The pause is still a problem, even though it stopped. The models were wrong, and no wonder. They are missing key forcings like solar magnetic, solar spectral changes and the solar wind.

#4 It’s a natural cycle, man

Apparently it’s not natural because 250 million years ago CO2 rose fast and caused the Permian Extinction. Kilvert argues that all past changes were slower than this one. Since we know warmer temperatures cause CO2 to rise about 800 years later, it takes some magical thinking to assert that any scientist can show CO2 rose before temperatures 250,000,000 years ago. Show us your error bars.

Riddle me this: we’ve got 800,000 years of ice cores, and modern satellites circling the Earth 24 hours a day, but the only proof that CO2 causes rapid warming comes from a quarter of a billion years ago?

#5 Plants grow better with more CO2 anyway

Another myth that isn’t.  Plants grow faster, handle drought better, need less water and increase their yields by 15 to 30%. Market gardeners pay money to pump CO2 into their greenhouses. Maybe they are all wasting their money? Arid regions of the world are 11% greener, mostly thanks to CO2. Luckily farmers don’t rely on the ABC to give them useful information.

CO2 is not just important to plants is often the rate limiting step. New research shows that the impending climate disaster puts the world in danger of growing too much corn and soy. People won’t know what starving is!

Any nutritional deficiencies are so minor they can be solved by adding two chickpeas to each cup of rice.

#6 It was warmer during the Medieval Warm Period

Skeptics can name hundreds of peer reviewed studies from every continent showing it was as warm or warmer. Believers say that these are just localities, but can’t name continents that were colder at the same time. They “know” it was cooler 1,000 years ago because their models say so, and because junk science graphs look like Hockeysticks — but only if they use tree rings for 2,000 years then throw them away and use thermometers near airports instead. The Hockeystick graph has all the skill of a random number generator but fake scientists are still defending it. Fake journalists are letting them get away with it.

Put some modern trees into the hockeystick and it falls apart. Shall we say “Hide that decline“?

#7 But the world’s been colder before when CO2 levels were higher

Another mythical myth.  I’ll just quote Kilvert: “Actually CO2 has been at higher levels than today, when temperatures were much cooler.” Kilvert debunks himself.

#8 Climate science is a conspiracy of the ‘elites’

Strawman #3. No conspiracy needed or claimed when there’s $1.5 Trillion in incentives, plus rampant namecalling, bullying, sacking, more sacking, and generally nasty petty behaviour exactly like the sort that Kilvert displays. What scientist wants to be  blackballed,   terminated, punished, vilified and pursued in court with deep pockets willing to waste half a million dollars?

Who’s denying that $1,500 million dollars buys a lot of confirmation bias? Not skeptics. See: Climate Money.

Kilvert sys: “The reality is that not acting on climate change will punish the poor. The IPCC predicts millions will be displaced if warming hits 2 degrees.”

The reality is that acting on climate change is already killing the poor, and the IPCC can’t predict anything except for getting lucky on Arctic ice and the refugees didn’t seek refuge because their islands growing.

#9 CO2 has historically followed, not caused warming

 Another myth that’s hard to break because it’s true. Skeptics cite the Vostok Ice Cores, Kilvert cites Al Gore.

He goes on to quote a couple of scientists who just declare the positive feedbacks to be real. Kilvert doesn’t ask them to name actual examples of where they demonstrate this mythical amplification in the ice cores. Where are those papers? If there is amplification, if CO2 is the defining “force”, why is it so hard to find examples of it?

See: Where is the evidence for the dangerous positive feedback in the Vostok Ice Cores? Where is Carbon’s “major effect” in the ice core data.

#10 Climate scientists are only in it for the money

Kilvert appears to be saying that climate sensitivity is 3.3C because mining engineers are paid more than climate scientists.

This is no accident. With climate scientists inept modeling skills, which mining company would employ them?

The mining engineers and geologists are mostly skeptics. Why? They can add up. Their jobs depend on getting it right.  Climate Scientists jobs depend on getting the “right” answer. If engineers and geologists don’t find the oil, gold or gas, they get sacked. If climate scientists don’t find a “climate crisis” they lose their job. They’re just mining for different things…

The truth is that B Grade graduates of ecological degrees can’t get better paid work than “in climate science”. They get rock star status, two week round-the-world UN junkets every year, no journalist asks them hard questions, and besides, if they don’t toe the line, they get sacked.

Cowardice everywhere

The ABC can take the punters money but it can’t allow taxpayers to comment, lest inept, unresearched activism like Kilvert’s gets torn to pieces on their own site.

Likewise Kilvert can’t risk naming large skeptical websites either. Despite skeptics being stupid tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorists, apparently Kilvert is too scared his readers might find out that he doesn’t know what skeptics say, doesn’t have any real answers, and is debunking strawmen and mythical myths.

And why has the ABC sunk to posting nauseating repeat animations, as if their website is run by teenage boys? Even tabloid news is above that. This is inane mocking, not a scientific argument. And that’s exactly the point. This ABC article is not there to educate, to discuss science, or explain national policy. It appears to be there to tell readers what opinions they are permitted to have — to warn them how they’ll be treated if they ask the wrong question. The flicker-repeats are the type of images used by teenage clickbait-minds looking for easy things to go trolling on to score points to boost their low self-esteem.

Apparently, the ABC aren’t writing for national policy makers any more, they’re feeding the trolls. Well, send ‘em on over…

h/t David B, Pat, George, Todd H, Travis T. Jones, BillinOz, bemused.

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ABC Climate Zombie Myths and Fantasy Strawmen. Who's feeding the trolls? , 9.6 out of 10 based on 110 ratings

172 comments to ABC Climate Zombie Myths and Fantasy Strawmen. Who’s feeding the trolls?

  • #
    TdeF

    The ABC love debates on everything. When did they last host a debate between two scientists on man made Global Warming? When did anyone?

    A world first then. Two qualified actual scientists.

    No, not ancient dead kangaroo expert Tim Flannery. Not economist Ian Dennis. Not even head of the Royal Society, Nobel winning geneticist Sir Paul Nurse. Not even science ignorant mathematics incompetent Nobel peace prize winner Al Gore.

    Not a hydrologist like Phil Jones from the University of East Anglia of Climate Gate Fame. A scientist whose understanding of historic climates is essential to their profession, like geologist Ian Plimer.

    And they should do what scientists should do, argue solely from facts. Prove, not presume that the CO2 increase is man made. Prove not infer CO2 produced warming. Prove it beyond doubt.
    And then prove that what we are doing in Australia to stop Global Warming is worth a single dollar of our money. And it would be nice to hear how +1C produces disastrous Climate Change and ‘extreme events’.

    You see if rising CO2 caused warming, the pause was impossible. The hot spot should be there. And where are all those wrong predictions? Where is a single correct one?

    The seas have not risen. The animals have not died. The climates have not changed. And the pause proves absolutely that the slight warming has nothing to do with CO2.

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    • #
      TdeF

      Can we have the $60Billion back stolen in our electricity bills to build windmills for others and provide private useless lunchtime middle class solar?

      Can we have the $444million back stolen from the Treasury for Malcolm and Lucy’s friends without them even asking for the money or suggesting what they would do with it?

      Can we please have a coal power station to replace Hazelwood?

      Can we just stop the insanity?

      572

    • #
      cohenite

      Thanks for this Jo. A couple of things: firstly the NSW NLP government has allowed climate change to be incorporated into the HSC syllabus. Gramsci continues and the gap between the left wing alarmist alp/greens and the allegedly conservative LNP narrows.

      Secondly I looked at this despicable article at the vile abc and considered how different this debate would have been without the abc. It should be closed down but what conservative government would have the guts to do it?

      The first paragraph of this rubbish sets the tone. CO2 doesn’t absorb heat, it absorbs and emits, instantaneously, RADIATION. Heat is the product of radiation transfer from one source to another such as the Sun transferring radiation to the cooler Earth. The Earth in turn emits radiation after being warmed by the Sun and it’s own internal energy (molten core, rotation etc). The type of radiation emitted by any body like the Earth depends on how hot it is (Wiens Law ). Earth emits infra red radiation which can be absorbed by the so called greenhouse gases including CO2 in the atmosphere. But they don’t trap this radiation, they reemit it instantly (Beer Lambert Law) or lose it through collision with N2 and O2 molecules in the atmosphere.

      So how does this process make the Earth hotter. And this is the key point of alarmism which I’m sure not one alarmist knows. When the CO2 reemits the infra red radiation the radiation either goes up or down according to a quantum isotropic effect. So half of the radiation absorbed and reemitted by CO2 goes up and leaves the atmosphere and half goes down back to the Earth adding to the radiation on Earth. This is the so-called science of alarmism. According to alarmists adding more CO2 causes more radiation to be redirected back down to Earth.

      Why is it wrong?

      Co2 is stacked in the atmosphere so higher levels of CO2 don’t send half of their emitted radiation back to Earth but back to lower levels of CO2 and other greenhouse gases. The isotropic effect is mitigated by this stacking.

      CO2 becomes saturated when all the available CO2 is absorbing so no further radiation can be absorbed. This happens below the current level of CO2.

      Satellite measurements show a greater outflow of infra red radiation then incoming because a slight drop of water vapor which can absorb much more infra red radiation than CO2 has compensated for the increase in CO2

      The increase in CO2 is largely natural.

      The slight warming of the Earth over the last 150 years is consistent with Solar and cloud effects.

      The abc should be closed immediately.

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      • #
        el gordo

        ‘ … has allowed climate change to be incorporated into the HSC syllabus.’

        I haven’t seen the detail, will they allow a red and blue team debate? Or does Gramsci rule supreme?

        In a general sense there is a window of opportunity opening up for the ABC to downplay alarmism, if they fail to do so then a future Royal Commission will slam the pseudo Marxists for perpetuating the big lie.

        https://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2019/07/28/ipcc-scientists-setting-a-climate-deadline-is-dangerous/

        60

        • #
          Greg in NZ

          Still have my old school atlas from the 1970s in which, based on the Köppen–Geiger Climate Classification System developed in 1884 (and modified in 1918, 1936, 1968) there are five (5) main climate groups which are expanded into fourteen (14) precipitation/temperature sub-groups with twenty-six (26) colour-coded climatic zones. So pray tell, exactly which ‘climate’ is changing?

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Köppen_climate_classification

          My dictionary states the word ‘climate’ comes from Greek klima ‘slope, zone’ originally denoting a region between two lines of latitude, then later with reference to a region’s atmospheric conditions. So 180 degrees of latitude (from South to North) times 360 degrees of longitude (around the whole planet) equals 64,800 climates on Earth – perhaps the origin of the mythological $64,000 question?

          N.B. I barely scraped through Maths at high school while Geography, History, and English, I nailed as I’d grown up reading books Books BOOKS (plus my dad’s atlases and nautical charts and Nat Geos) so my 180˚ x 360˚ equation may be way off the mark but hey, ’tis all about being in the zone… not ‘zoned out’ like Greta’s Groupie Zombies.

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      • #
        theRealUniverse

        Another thing, The radiation from gases is FLUX not HEAT. You cant add fluxes to make it hotter! Only heat transfer will make something hotter, you have to do work. Heat only flows from HOT to COLD. If the air is colder it CANNOT heat a warmer surface.

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        • #
          sophocles

          To theRealUniverse: @ #1.2.2

          You’re right. It’s FLUX not HEAT. But Kilver is too ignorant to know that.

          For proving CO2 `warms the atmosphere;’ Kilver relies on Eunice Foote’s experiment in 1850 (or 1851 … whatever) available here.

          She filled her test cylinders from an air pump, so I presume they were all filled to the same pressure. She started all observations from equilibrium with room temperature. She then exposed the cylinders to the sun’s radiation.
          No mention is made in the paper about:
          1. time of day
          2. cloud cover or wind
          3. mass of gas in each cylinder

          I assume the volume of each sample would be the same.

          The tabulated results follow a curve which strongly suggests the mass of the gas determined the final temperature. Hydrogen, being the simplest gas and carbon dioxide (`carbonic acid’) the heaviest. It would be interesting to replicate the experiment with modern equipment including weighing the gases.

          Kilver also fails to appreciate the atmosphere is not warmed, it merely transfers energy from the surface it is in contact with to its constituent molecules. The atmospheric gases are just a vehicle for transferring `the heat;’ that is the energy/flux they have absorbed from wherever up. to the stratosphere.
          I `update’ my vitamin D by sunbathing in winter. I sit in the sun but sheltered from any wind. The sun `warms’ my skin nicely, when it strikes it. I say `warmed’ because that is the sensation my skin `feels’ as it converts the incident IR. Because I’m out of the wind or any moving atmosphere, to carry away my `warmth,’ I’m not cold.

          He references a recent paper in Nature to deliver the accusation the MCA (Medieval Climate Anomaly) was not truly global. If he references this map he may have to agree it was global. Each point is where a measurement was made. The recent paper sounds very much like another one shredded by the WUWT denizens a couple of years ago.

          One of my books, published in 2008:
          Dr Brian FAGAN in “The Great Warming; Climate Change and Rise and Fall of Civilizations” [2008] Bloomsbury Press, NY
          ISBN: 978-1-59691-392-9
          … is adamant it’s (the MCA) effects were felt and noted about the globe, as does this paper. The paper also directly attacks the claim it was not a global phenomenon.

          In NZ the Franz Josef Galacier was, according to Dr Brian Fagan:

          a mere pocket of ice on a frozen snowfield nine centuries ago”…. Then Little Ice Age cooling began and the glacier thrust downslope into the valley below smashing into the great rain forests that flourished there, felling giant trees like matchsticks. By the early 18th Century, Franz Joseph’s face was within 3 km of the Pacific Ocean.

          The high tide of glacial advance at Franz Joseph came between the late 17th Century and early 19th Century, just as it did in the European Alps.

          I’ve only had a go at him over 2 points from which he incurred Three Strikes: he’s out.

          Dr Brian FAGAN:”The Little Ice Age; How Climate Made History,” Basic Books [2002].
          ISBN : 978-0-465-02272-4.

          As NZ’s Franz Josef Glacier is within a degree or so very close to being the antipodes of Guernsey Island in the English Channel, it’s quite reasonable to say the Little Ice Age was also global in scope.

          MCA = Medieval Climate Anomaly or Medieval Warming.

          40

          • #
            sophocles

            Heh: Galacier for Glacier. I knew my keyboard was at it again. Sho’ nuff!

            30

          • #
            Peter C

            Thanks Sopholes,

            It would be interesting to replicate the experiment with modern equipment including weighing the gases.

            Eunice Foote’s experiment cannot be replicated because she does not give sufficient detail of her equipment or methods. She had two (apparently identical) cylinders “each about 4 inches diameter and 30 inches in length”
            What were they made of? Were they transparent to the suns rays or opaque? Did she point the small end to the sun or the long axis?
            Each tube contained two thermometers but she only records one series of temperatures. She neglects to say if that was the average of the two readings.

            In her first experiment she exhausted the gas from one tube and condensed in the other. She had no way of measuring the pressure in the tubes. The exhausted tube did not get as hot as the tube with condensed gas.

            I really do no know what it was that she was measuring, or trying to measure?

            20

            • #
              sophocles

              Eunice Foote’s experiment cannot be replicated because she does not give sufficient detail of her equipment or methods.

              Oh no! Not so! Of course it can be replicated.

              We’ll just do it the way Bill Nye the Skyance Guy and his friend did it a couple of years ago: the jars they used were far too small, so we just acquire two Walmart/Woolworths Atmosphere Measuring Jars, glass ones size eXtra Large please, with screw on lids. Easy! They’re Glass so no worries. So long as they let the light in they’ll let the heat in. Just don’t get the plastic ones — too much Carbon.

              We use a tyre pump to inflate the cylin … ah fill the cylinders or just do it directly from the compressed gas bottles. No need for anything fancy like a pressure gauge. Cor! The grant won’t stretch that far. You stop filling as soon as the lids start to bulge or creak, and measure the bulges with a wooden ruler (available from every primary school stationery shop) so you can get the same pressure each time. C’mon. That part is easy! (Even easier is to bribe a child or two with a lolly. They’ll give up offer their own ones for Skyance!)

              Don’t worry about the thermometers. Anything there will do. Cheap alcohol ones work quicker than mercury. Just as long as they work. Synchronization and matching of them is a waste of time. They’re made by a big country overseas which really appreciates exact work and endeavours to make everything as different the same as possible. As long as they are all the same price, they’ll be matched good enough.

              I’ve got some (almost) brand new bathroom scales to weigh each cylinder before it goes out in the sun.
              I’ve got two large sledge hammers we can use for condensing the cylinders. 8lb or 10?

              As long as everything (except the sunshine) can be bought over a counter, then modern machining ensures it’s accurate enough.

              I really do no[t] know what it was that she was measuring, or trying to measure?

              Hey, of course you do! This is Kilvert-Science™

              20

          • #
            Greg in NZ

            “I ‘update’ my vitamin D by sunbathing in winter. I sit in the sun but sheltered from any wind”. Hear! Hear! Plus mid-winter swims in the ocean keeps us young at heart (and short of breath) gasp!

            Donning a woke pussycat beanie a la Grøtæsque from Sweden: Vitamin D stands for Dinosaur or Dén!er or Deficiency right? Coz like Vitamin Sunshine would be Vitamin S yes? What do you mean ‘no’? Al Gore and the Pope told me so…

            Galacier! Galoshes! Bulbous Bouffant!

            20

            • #
              sophocles

              Plus mid-winter swims

              Short of breath? Obviously, you don’t swim all year round, just as I don’t. It wouldn’t matter if you swam all year round …. try it one year :-)

              Vitamin S? Vitamin Sunshine? Wot you been smoking, then? Hmm?

              Galacial.” Yep, That’s the pace NZ glaciers move at. Galacial. You can watch them at it. It’s better than watching paint dry. Paint is super fast in comparison. You, of all people, should know that. :-)

              20

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      Just been listening to ABC 891 in the car
      There was an item called “The Good News”
      And the major good news
      Was how electricity from a solar farm near Nmurkah
      Is going to ‘power’ all the trams in Melbourne
      ‘Renewably !
      No mention was made about
      How the trams will be powered
      When the sun goes down
      Or if it is cloudy or raining….

      Just another ABC propaganda exercise
      For the completely naive Greenists !
      It’s their ABC !

      350

      • #
        Dennis

        And as usual the output is installed capacity, not capacity factor of the solar farm.

        My State MLA (National) recently, to his credit, sent a newsletter out acknowledging the cost of living crisis for many of his constituents including the unacceptably high cost of electricity. He called for new power stations to be built in NSW (HELE) however he quoted power stations that have shut down and that renewables (unreliable) had replaced them, quoting installed capacity and ignoring intermittent operation.

        180

  • #
    AndyG55

    Great post Jo. :-)

    Now let’s see all the zero-evidence troll try to argue against your points with actual science.

    Hasn’t happened in the past, and I can’t see it happening now.

    360

  • #
    Lionell Griffith

    Their secret ploy is that reality accepts their position and follows it to within 0.001 degrees. No matter what they say, reality says OK, here it is. It is because of this behavior of reality that they don’t have to prove anything. They say it and it is – ***poof*** as if by magic. You can see it in what they call “the data”. It is there, if you look hard enough and really really believe.

    There is only one small and negligible problem with their ploy. Reality doesn’t work the way they wish. Reality is what it is and does what it does because of what it is. The wishes, commandments, expectations, feelings, and hopes otherwise have absolutely no impact upon reality.

    The earth will become what it will become no matter how many trillions are stolen and spent to make it otherwise. The only real consequence of that spending is that humanity becomes poorer because it is wasted on things that cannot be based upon wishes that cannot be made so no matter how much is spent.

    If we want to live and thrive, we had better listen to reality, learn from it, and work with it the way it is. We can’t work with it the way it isn’t. That is the way of failure and death. Reality doesn’t care. Reality IS. We have no choice in the matter except do as it says or die.

    231

    • #
      Geoff Sherrington

      TdeF,
      Plus the $$$$ that a female pollie now retired gave to the Green Climate Fund, plus the $$$$ that went to the Clinton Foundation, plus numerous other less spectacular amounts. I remember past times when efficiency and accountability reports were expected after large sums were handed over, or the Auditor-General would intervene. Geoff S

      280

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      ‘The earth will become what it will become no matter how many trillions are stolen and spent to make it otherwise. ‘ true. Its what they want. It never was about climate or any science, its only control.
      And stolen is the apt term.
      So when are they going to jail?

      60

  • #
    toorightmate

    The ABC is disgusting in many areas.
    Any organisation with the likes of Probyn directing news is a sad case.
    The credibility of the BoD and CEO are zero while this creep maintains that role.
    His frequent on-air criticism of the government is more vile than the Greens, CFMEU and ALP can dream up.

    230

  • #
    Kevin Anderson

    If it’s the hottest on record then why are there over 1 million Woolly mammoths still frozen in Siberia?
    https://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/20140127_031535_ssjm0126megadry90.jpg?w=810
    California drought: Past dry periods have lasted more than 200 years, scientists say

    170

    • #
      glen Michel

      The question I have relates to the mesolithic/ Holocene advent,say around 11500 bp and its juncture with the previous epoch- the Pleistocene.Is there any evidence relating to the cause(s) of this sudden change in climate.I will try to research later, but does anyone have any suggestions. By the way,my old geology lecturer maintains we are still in the Pleistocene (from 1974)

      60

      • #
        glen Michel

        Kilvert’s predecessor Hannam was just as bad. Can’t say if they are useful idiots or not, but idiots nonetheless.

        70

      • #
        The Depraved and MOST Deplorable Vlad the Impaler

        Glen:

        I doubt if there is much concrete evidence for why a transition took place at the interval you specified. We can see the transitions throughout the Pleistocene, but as far as WHY they happened, I do not believe anyone had come up with a solid set of reasons.

        If you look at the question closely, you’ll see that too many of us (and it is the same error that ‘climate science’ makes all the time) try to make climate respond to a single input — – that’s well nigh impossible, for a coupled, non-linear dynamic system.

        As far as whether we are still in the Pleistocene, I would tend to agree, by virtue of the current “Holocene” interglacial being nothing more than the latest pause in what is generally an Ice Age. What we think of as this ‘here-and-now’ Ice Age began in Late Pliocene time, not altogether disconnected from the closing of the Panama isthmus. If the past is any guide, interglacials tend to run 12,000 – 15,000 years, followed by a 90,000 – 120,000 year-long glacial pulse. Further, if you believe Richard Alley, the transitions take place very abruptly; in one lecture I saw (pre-recorded video) he even went to argue that the temperature changed around six Celsius degrees, in MUCH less than a decade. The glaciers themselves still took thousands of years to form (colder air holding much less water vapor than warm air) but once the temperature regime was in place, the formation of continental ice sheets was inevitable.

        I would welcome any dissent you may offer, but hope that this will help, or stimulate some discussion,

        Vlad

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      • #
        RickWill

        Flow through the Bering Strait is the most significant driver of changing climate in the last 20kyr.
        https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-climate-change-spurred-a-10000-year-ice-age-journey/

        The Bering Strait provides the northern connection between the Pacific and the Atlantic and is vital link for heat transfer from the Pacific to Atlantic.

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    • #
      beowulf

      The question is not so much why are they still frozen, but how they came to be snap-frozen with their mouths full of buttercups in the first place? Velikovsky anyone?

      80

      • #
        glen Michel

        Velikovsky came to mind. I read a lot of his books when at Uni -I also read Lobsang Rampa and Carlos Casteneda and hell of alot of obscure SF writers. “Earth in Upheaval”, I think dealt with the frozen Mammoths and that our planet came under the influence of another body and as a result took Earth well off its present axis. Catastrophism versus Gradualism, but of course our geological history is both. Thanks Vlad for expressing your uncertainty,but as in all changes they come down to a half dozen factors.Whatever happened to those mammoths so as to kill such creatures that were so well adapted to severe cold remains a mystery.

        50

        • #
          beowulf

          I’ve never met anyone who read Velikovsky and Lobsang Rampa et el. Me too back when I was a youngster. What about Charles Hoy Fort? He had some odd stuff.

          Velikovsky Reconsidered was a re-evaluation of his ideas done in the 80s or 90s from memory by a new generation of students. I think there were debates on him at Cambridge or Oxford at the time.

          50

          • #
            Serp

            Some philosophy course on scientific epistemology that I undertook about 1973 cited Velikovsky as an example of thoroughgoing pseudo-science but after reading his Worlds In Collision and Earth In Upheaval I exonerated Velikovsky and wondered why his catastrophism wasn’t taken more seriously. The books were written before “sliding continents” had become the reigning orthodoxy. His pitch is that the fossil record is laid down by sudden catastrophic upheavals.

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      • #
        Greg in NZ

        beowulf:

        Immanuel Velikovsky ✓
        Lobsang Rampa (the plumber from Woking?) ✓
        Carlos Castaneda ✓ Timothy Leary ✓ Dr Seuss ✓
        Charles Fort / Fortean Times (frogs & fish from the sky) ✓
        Petr Beckmann – A History Of Pi ✓
        [Electrical Engineering Dept., Uni of Colorado, 1971, St Martin's Press, NY]
        Still one of my favourite reads: “The history of pi is a quaint little mirror of the history of man”.
        Oh, and also, Khalil Gibran ✓

        40

        • #
          beowulf

          Ditto for many of the above. Was also into the Mahabharata and the other Vedic stuff as a teen. Aerial battles in vimanas, “I am become death, the destroyer of worlds” and all that jazz.

          My 30s saw me get into the great Irish epics, the Icelandic sagas and prose eddas, and Beowulf — hence the moniker. I write fiction, and the ancient bards are a great inspiration.

          40

  • #

    The NOAA started using better controlled sites with low to zero UHI etc for a national index, just to see…
    https://tinyurl.com/yydlr48f

    Seems the NOAA are also Haitian voodoo cultists.

    Hey, I’m not taking sides here. The globe can only warm when it’s not cooling. We’re just lucky that for the last 11 thousand years or so the changes have been small potatoes. The sea level rises starting around 8 thousand years ago were a bit much, and that last chilly episode three hundred years back was a downer. But why we have this massive priesthood fretting over every fraction of a degree and every lousy dribble of SLR is beyond me. Do our new Savonarolas really expect the climate to stand still if enough white elephants are offered to Gaia?

    190

  • #
    Bill in Oz

    We all know that Nick Kilvert is
    Just a propaganda bull dust
    Propagator
    For the Australian Brainwashing Collective.
    The real question to ask is
    Who were the completely dum idiots
    At the Australian Broadcasting Corporation
    ( Funded by us here in Oz )
    Who hired this incompetent Nick Kilvert
    Naming some names as the real dumb idiots
    Might be useful in the future.
    Why ?
    Because when the time comes
    They will have to be sacked,
    Moved on !
    And given the big kick in the bum
    They richly deserve.

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    • #
      Kinky Keith

      I agree.
      We Must give credit where credit is due.

      90

    • #
      Elgorza Narce

      It appears that Kilvert has been pushing his green fantasies for a while now.

      This Quadrant article is almost two years old and in it he tells the true believers that the concept of base load power “no longer applies to our dynamic energy market”

      https://quadrant.org.au/reliable-cheap-power-needs/

      Nick is clearly a fully fledged, misguided brain dead twit, and if the ABC had the courage of their convictions, they would allow public comments on his journalistic masterpieces, or at the very least provide his readers with an email address, so he could receive a little guidance from the real world outside the ABC bubble.

      40

  • #
    Kinky Keith

    As Andy says, another great post Jo.

    Additionally we can close the entire Farce down with one clear and concise statement based on quantities without even doing an atmospheric mass, heat and momentum transfer balance on the whole system.

    The statement; Human Origin CO2 is quantitatively irrelevant.

    No further argument is possible against that statement.

    KK

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  • #
    Geoff Sherrington

    It might be just cranky old me, but are dear readers here also annoyed by the percents of TV broadcast time each day with topics or themes emphasising unusual or rare human sexuality?
    Example,couples touring the land for a new home to buy are often a pair of queer guys. Couples chosn for fast marriage shows can be gay more often than stats say. Education and medical topics have a large component of operations for transsexuals. Even the hewsreaders seem to have too many limp wrist types, but then I might be paranoid.
    Dear old Aunty is no exception among the broadcasters. My preference is for them to spend most of their effort on normal people and events, not on rare people types who sadly have enough problems bestowed by Nature. I am not bashing such subjects, many were born that way, but I dislike seeing them over represented in air time. Geoff S

    320

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      I met someone who is suffering from the issue and she/he doesn’t feel happy about the false face of the problem as portrayed by the LGBIQTR movement.

      This political movement simply increases angst by pushing a “them and us” confrontation that has no real benefit to anyone except those leading the charge who get political kudos and power.

      Also the push for gender reassignment treatment with drugs and surgery is fraught with danger but is moving forward mainly because of politics and not out of any real concern for those affected.

      KK

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      • #
        TdeF

        Good point. Like legal government assisted suicide in Holland of a healthy young depressed woman. Murder is illegal, unless legislated. This is not caring. Caring is helping such a desperate person to get help. The is government gone mad when society is against capital punishment but can legally extinguish life on demand?

        The LGIBQWTF (Mark Latham’s invention) movement is not getting these confused people any help. There is nothing wrong with such people but drugs and reassignment surgery is not a solution to anything. As for 8 genders, that’s not true. There are only two in any animal. Everything else is politics not psychology.

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        • #
          Kinky Keith

          Hadn’t heard of Mark Latham’s take on the lettered message before, funny and relevant.

          My own use of the R at the end serves a similar function, to mock it.

          The person mentioned above is quite firm in the same observation, that there are only two genders.
          The trick to understanding the background of gender dysphoria is in the biology.
          Initially the problem can be created during a disturbed pregnancy which may lead, in its purest form, to either a “male” brain in a female body or vice versa. Then overlaying that is the biological reality that to some extent there’s a spread around “normal” for both brain and body. Then there’s possibility number two where there’s even greater complexity when someone with gender dysphoria reproduces.

          The complexity produced is a nightmare for so called “gender reassignment”.

          To simplify things and avoid hard science the activists created their own story, LGBTQIR which sends everyone running around in circles.

          KK

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          • #
            OriginalSteve

            I keep asking to be shown the gene that causes homowhatsit….people get so cranky when they have no answer…kind of shoots the who mess down in a screaming heap in one go.

            Problem is, its all predicated on victimhood. If there are no grounds for suffering as a minority, the whole thing disappears into a puff of smoke….

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            • #
              Kinky Keith

              Hi Steve, so called “h’sexuality” is a very real biological condition that is imposed on those afflicted. It isn’t something that they “choose”.

              The biology and processing during pregnancy is complex and can lead to big problems if it is disrupted by stress, alcohol or whatever. I can remember years ago seeing comments from a group of female Victorian doctors who said that it was OK for women to drink during pregnancy but no more than two units of alcohol per day. It’s obvious that some medical courses at the time weren’t up to date with the issue, or that it was just too complex to bother with.

              The info is out there.

              KK

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              • #
                OriginalSteve

                OT here…..

                I recall an article in Time I think it was whre I noticed where a prof of medicine suggested at best, biology might contribute a predisposition ( a leaning, not an absolute influence ) amounting to 30% of the overall condition.

                This then begs the question of where does the remaining 70% of influence come from if its not biology?

                The debate has been very one sided and I reserve judgement accordingly…..

                40

              • #
                Kinky Keith

                Hi Steve, it’s a very complex biological issue and the guy writing for Time doesn’t do any great good by putting numbers on estimates.

                Funnily enough the mechanism of gender dysphoria was discovered as an offshoot of the discovery of the origins of Type 2 Diabetes which was discovered after world war 11.
                No two gender damaged people are the same because of the mechanisms involved and this makes numbers like 30% meaningless.

                The other issue is that there are those who need to belong somewhere and adopt the mantle of LGBTQIR for comfort even though they are straight.

                Yes, you can criticise them, and only them.

                KK

                40

              • #
                Kinky Keith

                Hi, further to # 9.1.1.1.1.

                There really hasn’t been any debate, just political posturing, much like the global warming thing.

                All noise and no content.

                40

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                If it truly is a medical condition, then it meeds to be managed as such….but also diagnosed accordingly. Makes sense to me to do that….

                40

              • #
                Kinky Keith

                Exactly.

                The sad fact is that the issue has been politicised instead of medicalised.

                Another unfortunate aspect of the issue is that it has also been turned into a religious thing where ill informed condemnation by The Church does nothing to help.

                The Church and, to be fair, the whole community are as ill informed about “gayness” as they are about man made global warming.

                Watching the LGBTQIR activists carry on with painting pedestrian crossings into rainbows and the like makes me despair for the human race.

                How can someone cope with the situation when they have a body of physical size and bulk of a male, then overlayed with some of the female structure, then have the face of a woman but the deep contrasting voice of a male and the gait and movement of a male.

                Totally confused and with no mature understanding from society or church life can be a bit miserable. Why does suicide have to be ever present option for emotional peace.

                Surely in 2019 we can do better.

                KK

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              • #
                Greg in NZ

                “The Pacific Games held this month in Samoa is another chapter. On the podium was Laurel Hubbard, the giant transgender weightlifter, wearing two gold medals and a silver standing above two Pacific Island women. With their silver and bronze medals, they were stony-faced”.

                https://rdln.wordpress.com/2019/07/20/tiny-samoa-starts-a-big-ripple-for-women-in-sports/

                Samoa’s prime minister has spoken up too: “This fa’afafine or man should have never been allowed by the Pacific Games Council President to lift with the women”.

                ‘Laurel’ Hubbard is the son/daughter of Dick Hubbard, wealthy businessman, ex-Auckland Mayor, founder of the Sustainable Business Network, honorary Doctor of Science (Massey University) and ONZM.

                Jamie Lee Curtis – A Fish Like Wanda – was rumoured to be hermaphroditic at birth (parents Tony Curtis & Janet Leigh) but that may be one of those Wholly-weird urban legend myth-trees…

                30

              • #
                Kinky Keith

                Thanks Greg #9.1.1.1.6,

                A highly relevant comment.

                The person mentioned has an unfair advantage, it seems and the administration doesn’t say boo.

                My earlier comments tried to state that “gayness”, for want of a better word, is clearly understood by a small number of people.
                It is a clearly defined issue.

                Unfortunately at all levels of community life in the west the reality is hidden by a number of factors which include:

                # laziness/ indifference

                # politics

                # religious Dogma.

                The reason I push this issue on this blog is because of the startling similarities in treatment by the powers that be and media when compared with the Global Warming meme.

                Ignorance is no excuse for ugly behaviour by the LGBTQIR crowd, politicians and the Church when the means for a full understanding of the issue are available.

                All of the above ugliness takes away the chance of a normal life from those who are genuinely afflicted with transgender/gay/gender dysphoria issues.

                This is NOT a Religious issue. If any blame needs to be dispensed the Very Last person to blame is the person with Gender Dysphoria.

                This is 2019. The new age of enlightenment, I think not.

                KK

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    • #
      GD

      are dear readers here also annoyed by the percents of TV broadcast time each day with topics or themes emphasising unusual or rare human sexuality?

      The media’s preoccupation with the sexual proclivity of less than 5% of the population, is indeed bizarre. However, seen in the larger context, it’s all part of the Marxist agenda to derail and destruct Western Christian/Judeo society.

      That’s the same social realm that lifted Man out of poverty, starvation, barbarism, and ignorance.

      Leftists, communists, socialists, have grown fat on the benefits of Western capitalist society, yet they continue seeking to destroy that same social order to create their idealised ‘utopia’.

      That ‘utopia’ is best seen in Spain, Greece and worst of all, in Venezuela. Or look at the lifestyle of the ordinary citizen in Russia. Or any citizen in North Korea.

      Australian universities are rife with lecturers who teach that socialism is the solution to all our problems.

      The stupid is big with those on the Left.

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    • #
      glen Michel

      I always thought the same-sex marriage bizzo was the thin edge of the wedge.They are laying in the boot now big time.More assertive and demanding.Don’t get me started on this Voice treaty truth stuff!

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    • #
      Gee aye

      Normal?

      oh dear.

      Is that you Geoff?

      19

      • #
        Kinky Keith

        Hi, it seems that you may have misread the comment so check it out:

        “My preference is for them to spend most of their effort on normal people and events, not on rare people types who sadly have enough problems bestowed by Nature. I am not bashing such subjects, many were born that way, but I dislike seeing them over represented”.

        Seems straightforward, even some compassion in the right direction.

        Is it the criticism of the LGBTIQR that’s the issue for you.

        Many of the subjects of this discussion resent being used by the LGBTQIR industry for political purposes.

        KK

        100

        • #
          Gee aye

          No I understood… he has his normal and that is what he wants. Can’t help those who don’t help themselves.

          37

          • #
            Kinky Keith

            That’s a misrepresentation of what was said.

            He’s asking what sense does it make for the government media to portray the lifestyle and problems of 3% of the population constantly when the other 97 % aren’t catered for?

            The other 97% face serious societal issues that the government and media ignore.

            KK

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            • #
              Gee aye

              In today’s news a normal person did a normal thing and had no difficulties. Next up, a normal person has a normal day. Stay tuned.

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              • #
                Kinky Keith

                Australia has one of the highest youth suicide rates in the world.

                A huge social issue that needs some thought from our governments.

                So much for “ordinary” people having an easy way through life.

                There’s also the government indifference to industry collapse, resultant unemployment and general failure to look to the future.

                For example, it’s amazing how many apparently intelligent people think that we don’t need to build dams as catch up or provision for the very near future. As to dams for farmers, who cares, we can buy good from overseas with our social security payments.

                No problems??

                KK

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              • #
                Gee aye

                this is way off topic so I’ll close by noting that none of those things you mentioned is under represented in the media (IMO) and can be found across all media outlets (easily verified)

                19

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                Gee Aye…disingenious answer….tut tut…

                70

          • #
            el gordo

            The Cultural Marxists have taken over the ABC, this is not normal. The organisation should be broken up.

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  • #
    pat

    what won’t ABC publish in the cause of CAGW?

    7 Dec 2018: ABC: Climate change denial is delusion, and the biggest threat to human survival
    By David Shearman
    (Dr David Shearman is the Honorary Advisor to Doctors for the Environment Australia and Emeritus Professor of Medicine at Adelaide University; previously on Faculty at Edinburgh and Yale Universities)

    It would be fascinating to eavesdrop on discussions between members of the Flat Earth Society sailing the open sea, and debating why the horizon is curved. They would provide a good laugh…
    The belief of climate change deniers is usually unshakable, like that of the flat-earth believers or Holocaust deniers. Many delude themselves that there is a conspiracy.

    US President Donald Trump uses the words “hoax” and “Chinese hoax”. Often their fervour leads to influential positions, for example in environment and energy policy as in the Coalition…

    ‘The collapse of our civilisations’
    Climate change delusion is dangerous to humanity, for it overtly or deviously prevents effective reduction of greenhouse emissions by governments in many countries, including the US and Australia, but is an increasing problem with the rise of right-wing governments in Europe and South America, including, Brazil where the new government has a foreign minister devoted to climate denial.
    Dangerous, for it is responsible for thousands of deaths worldwide from fire, flood, drought and hunger and a range of other causes including infections.
    These deaths are projected to rise to 250,000 by 2030. In Australia the existing and expected health impacts are well documented and already affect our health services.
    In the words of David Attenborough at C0P24 blah blah…

    To deniers, coal is clean, good, cheap
    To the denier, there is no climate change — so coal is clean, coal is good, coal is cheap, it is our duty to export it to the poor of the world to give them electricity…

    Unfortunately, the Government tolerates climate deniers, so their constituents must instead vote them out to save lives…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-07/climate-change-denialism-holocaust-david-attenborough-coal/10585744

    naturally, Shearman has adopted the “climate emergency” language:

    19 Jun: IndependentAustralia: Obligations to the world’s children in the climate emergency
    By David Shearman
    This government is not fit to govern on the climate change emergency because of its incapacity to grasp the imminent danger to Australia, our neighbours and indeed the world…

    The determination and statements of the thousands of young people marching for action on climate change have given us an answer, for in their early teens they are not yet fully inculcated in today’s mindset. Their understanding comes from two gifts: firstly, the different mind processes of their leader Greta Thunberg, which render her far less susceptible to current ideology…

    Secondly, most young minds have not yet completed their absorption into this creed of neo-liberalism, which, as sociologist Löic Wacquant puts it, is an ‘articulation of state, market and citizenship that harnesses the first to impose the stamp of the second onto the third.’…

    Instead of a ministerial statement advising striking children to learn to drill for oil and gas, the Government should establish a national dialogue with children age 13 and over and enhance their knowledge of climate change issues and send a signal to the community that they wish to move forward.
    In the words of Andrew Glickson:
    “Only the children seem to know.”…
    https://independentaustralia.net/environment/environment-display/obligations-to-the-worlds-children-in-the-climate-emergency,12819

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    • #
      RicDre

      “It would be fascinating to eavesdrop on discussions between members of the Flat Earth Society…”

      It would be fascinating to eavesdrop on the discussions of Climate Scientists about the global temperature rising half as fast as their models say it should. It might go something like this: “I don’t understand it, CO2 is steadily rising, our models are based on consensus science, we are spending lots of money, we have the fastest computers, all of the MSM is on our side. It must be those Climate Deniers, their are preventing the climate from following our projections! The only way to solve this problem is to find uglier names to call them because Climate Denier just doesn’t seem to be working!” Or it might go something like this: “The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t.”

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      • #
        Greg in NZ

        Or, as Eric Blair wrote in 1948: If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face – forever.

        Or, updated/edited by moi: If you want a vision of the present climate science, imagine an imaginary hockey-stick smashing humans’ knowledge and intellect and brains – forever for not very much longer, we hope.

        30

  • #
    pat

    unattributed:

    2 May: ABC TripleJ Hack: After weeks of protests, UK becomes first country to declare ‘climate emergency’
    The UK has become the first country in the world to declare a national climate emergency following protests and acts of civil disobedience from a grassroots environmental group that launched in October.
    It’s a spectacular success for the Extinction Rebellion, while most climate protests have failed to capture the attention of the public, media and politicians. Although the declaration on its own does not mandate action on climate, it was the first of the protester’s three demands, along with reducing emissions to net zero by 2025, and creating an assembly of citizens to lead the government on climate issues…

    What happened?
    The Extinction Rebellion has changed the paradigm of climate protests, according to Leo Barasi, the author of Climate Majority, a book investigating how to shift public opinion about climate change.
    He’s also written a Master’s thesis on whether climate protests will ever convince lawmakers to act on climate change (his conclusion, they wouldn’t).
    “I found that extreme weather sometimes influences public opinion, while UN climate conferences and IPCC reports often trigger media coverage and parliamentary debates,” Barasi wrote on his blog…

    Then came the Extinction Rebellion (XR).
    And it apparently worked: The protests led to two separate parliamentary debates, and these were capped this week by the successful climate emergency motion.
    The UK media has also mentioned climate change more in April than it has at any other time in the last five years – including during the Paris Agreement negotiations in 2016…

    TWEET: Leo Hickman
    It’s official…
    Thanks to #ExtinctionRebellion protests, Attenborough’s BBC One film and @GretaThunberg’s UK visit, April 2019 has now overtaken Dec 2015 (Paris COP) as seeing the most mentions of “climate change” in UK media over past 5 years.
    (& still 5 days of April to go) CHART…

    Interestingly, Australia saw a sharp spike in searches for climate change on March 14 – the day of the national climate strike. If we assume google searches are a good indicator of public attention, Australians hadn’t been this engaged by climate change since 2010…

    How did the protests work where others have failed?
    One theory is that the climate denial movement has run its course.
    Richard Black, a former BBC environment correspondent and author of Denied: the Rise and Fall of Climate Contrarianism, told the Guardian the BBC appears to have stopped giving air time to climate deniers to ‘balance’ the debate.
    Mainstream media is now taking the issue seriously, he said: “The facts have changed. And in the end, if you want to be credible you have to go with the facts.”…

    According to the ABC’s vote compass, the environment is rated as the number one issue by 29 per cent of respondents, a massive shift from just 9 per cent in 2016…
    The 2019 triple j What’s Up In Your World survey of young people found climate change was the most important election issue…
    https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/uk-becomes-first-country-in-world-to-declare-climate-emergency/11074582

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    • #
      TdeF

      “in the end, if you want to be credible you have to go with the facts.”

      The facts
      The industrial revolution has not increased CO2 by 50%. Almost none of the increase is from petrol or gas or oil or coal.
      For the hothouse to work, there must be a hot spot over the equator. There isn’t one.
      Not only didn’t the temperature keep climbing, but it stopped while CO2 went up.

      The deniers are those making a living from the invention of man Made Global Warming. It’s not science. It’s fantasy.

      And after 100 years of this terrible Armageddon civilization ending rapid warming where on earth has the climate actually changed?

      260

      • #
        GD

        where on earth has the climate actually changed?

        This is what the younger generation, the extinction crazies, protesters like Greta Thornberg need to answer.

        Of course, they won’t.

        110

  • #
    Ruairi

    Is it now a journalist’s task,
    To distort to twist and to mask,
    The truth for their masters,
    Such as warmist broadcasters,
    And never the hard questions ask?

    270

  • #

    The inquisitors never relented
    Till the palaeo record repented
    Now the medieval’s cooled
    And the LIA’s pwned
    So out century’s “unprecedented!!”

    80

  • #
    Felix Krull

    No conspiracy needed or claimed when there’s $1.5 Trillion in incentives, plus rampant namecalling, bullying, sacking, more sacking, and generally nasty petty behaviour exactly like the sort that Kilvert displays.

    60

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    You might notice the video links on page …

    Score: Andrew Bolt, East University of Bumcrack – 1

    Annabelle Crab, Insiders, abc factcheck- 0

    2011, Farewell Andrew Bolt, Insiders, Annabelle Crabb, 1.38:

    “I mean, you know, the stuff you post on your blog, you know, a new study from the East University of Bumcrack about, you know, penguins still being alive” …

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAr0B0FyPlE

    Penguins of the Antarctic

    All 17 penguin species live exclusively in the Southern Hemisphere apart from the Galapagos penguin which just about qualifies as living in the Northern Hemisphere as it spans a narrow band at the equator in the Galapagos Islands.

    Chinstrap penguins: Estimated world population: – at least 8 million, increasing …

    Emperor penguins: Estimated world population: – 595,000, stable.

    Gentoo penguins: Estimated world population: – 387,000 breeding pairs, status not clear …

    Adelie penguin: Estimated world population: – 5 million, increasing.

    King penguins: Estimated world population: – 2 million breeding pairs (some estimates up to 3.2 million), increasing.

    https://www.coolantarctica.com/Antarctica%20fact%20file/wildlife/antarctic-penguins.php

    Not sure where Ms Crabb gets her science from, but it turns out emitting the invisible trace gas CO2 is a truly lousy way turning oceans acidic, causing oceans to boil, melting the antarctic and making penguins extinct.

    Perhaps Ms Crabb gets it from Mr Krab, from Bikini bottoms … The Endless Summer:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlkprv-Upco

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    • #
      Travis T. Jones

      more – perhaps they have a carbon (sic) tax to stop sea levels …

      Adelie Penguins – Pygoscelis adeliae

      Oldest Rookery – At least 6,335 years old.

      The places where penguins nest together are called rookeries.

      These are started and later abandoned for reasons that are not entirely clear.

      Archaeological type studies have found that these rookeries are often continually used for many hundreds of years, even thousands.

      The oldest so far found has been used every year since well before 4 000 BC.

      Myth: Penguins don’t fall over backwards when watching helicopters and airplanes flying overhead requiring squads of people to go round and pick them up again, an Antarctic “urban myth”.

      https://www.coolantarctica.com/Antarctica%20fact%20file/wildlife/adelie-penguin.php

      >> Perhaps the penguins are looking up for the mythical falling polar bears from all those planes -

      plane stupid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxis7Y1ikIQ

      60

      • #
        RicDre

        “Perhaps the penguins are looking up for the mythical falling polar bears from all those planes”

        I thought strange things falling out of the sky were caused by the use of the The Infinite Improbability Drive. I know there is at least one documented instance of a Magrathean sperm whale falling from the sky as a result of its use (see The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy for more details).

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    2dogs

    If you were born around the time that movie was released, and you’d decided to study an environmental science or related degree at university, you’d be finishing your undergraduate degree about now and facing a choice.

    On the one hand, you could take a graduate job in the mining sector where you could earn anything from $51,000 to $120,000+, for fly-in-fly-out and remote work in your first year out of university.

    Pffft. As if a fluff-piece enviro degree from Uni would land anyone a job as a mining engineer.

    Engineering, mining or otherwise, is an academically tough hard science degree. Those who do enviro degrees don’t make that grade.

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  • #
    David Wojick

    The Guardian has published an article on a study that found something I pointed out two years ago, that YouTube is full of videos skeptical of climate alarmism.
    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jul/25/most-youtube-climate-change-videos-oppose-the-consensus-view

    There are at least a thousand skeptical videos. I have begun collecting them at my Climate Change Debate Education website: (http://ccdedu.blogspot.com) and have about 300 listed at this point. That is a lot of skeptical science. Including a bunch from Judith Curry, Dick Lindzen, Pat Michaels, Will Happer, Roy Spencer and Marc Morano. Morano holds the record with his wonderful 10 million view video.

    The Guardian says we skeptics are “hijacking” the science. Utter nonsense. The scientific debate is very real and this blog is a great place to see it.

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    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Good. As long as Youtube doesnt start eliminating them, or have they forgotten about the ‘Agenda’?

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  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    It is posts like this one, which make visiting this site worthwhile. Now I’ll have an interesting morning chasing up the rebuttals to the original article, and seeing how they stack up to the original science.
    For example taking the CO2 statement, the UWS EucFACE experiment shows no difference in biomass between control and CO2 enhanced trees. It did show greening in the leaves, which correlates with those satellite observations of dry land greening. The conclusion is that CO2 is not the limiting factor in plant growth.

    I would not have learned that if it was not for this post. Thanks Jo.

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    • #

      CO2 is certainly not the limiting factor but it is a limiting factor, depending on local conditions. Look at it this way. A plant is a passive receptor, sitting there hoping for CO2 to feed it (and losing water in the process). Increasing the CO2 concentration facilitates this process. The chemistry is complex but the physics is simple.

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      • #
        TdeF

        Chemistry? Try CO2 + H2O + sunlight ==>> (CO2)m(H2O)n. Hydrated Carbon dioxide. Carbohydrates.
        The reaction needs a catalyst and the earliest catalyst was Vitamin A. A catalyst does not take part in the reaction but enables it or accelerates it.
        After billions of years the most advanced was chlorophyll, a green long chain hydrocarbon itself. Like every other organic chemical.
        You cannot make more plant material than you have CO2. Also no CO2 means no life on earth.

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        • #
          Tdef

          What makes a tree? Wood. Does wood burn? Then it is carbon. It turns back to carbon dioxide. Where did the carbon come from for a 50 tonne tree grown from a sapling?

          This was the puzzle. There is no 50 tonne hole around the tree.

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    • #
      TdeF

      Trees are made from CO2. This was known in 1600 even if they did not realise the CO2 existed. One of my science heroes Jan Baptist van Helmont proved it then. It is not just a ‘limiting factor’ or ‘plant food’, apart from 5g in a 70kg tree he proved it.

      Van Helmont changed alchemy into chemistry and laid the groundwork for Boyle. Rene Descrartes created rational science with mathematics and absolute proof and reproducibility and laid the groundworkd for Newton and everyone else. They changed our world. All living things are made from CO2 and water with energy from the sun. These are the three sources of life. The energy which allows you to move and think is solar. Fossil fuels are just that, old solar energy.

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      • #

        Indeed, one of the greatest scientific discoveries was that the plant grew but the weight of the soil did not decrease,

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        • #
          TdeF

          People think air is weightless. Former Prime Minister Tony Abbott said so. It seems so. People also do not understand air pressure or even why high winds can blow things down. It’s all weight. The idea that 0.04% of all air is the basis of all the forests and plants and animals is incredible but true. We are the products of what is a rare gas. The Greens have decided it is pollution because coal is black. But CO2 is transparent and as diamond clear and highly prized. Most of the Greens have no science education at all. The people feeding them lies about CO2 know this.

          And it is still amazing that you can grow a 74kg tree and use only 57gms of soil. Van Helmont could only conclude that the tree was made entirely from water. He was half right.

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        Peter Fitzroy

        so water is not involved? this is a strange argument and way off from what I was posting. for example, try using distilled water, or air which is only comprised of its major constituents and see what happens.

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        • #
          AndyG55

          “so water is not involved? “

          What sort of mindless idiot comment was that, pf !!

          TdeF clearly said, “All living things are made from CO2 and water with energy from the sun”

          Are you suffering from some sort of selective dementia or something !!!

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          • #
            Kinky Keith

            Isn’t it interesting how FP has managed to get this far in without provoking the obvious that he left out in his original statement.

            Trees in hi and low CO2 environments may grow to be the same chemical composition.

            What about speed of growth.

            KK

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    • #
      RicDre

      Peter Fitzroy:

      Do you have a link to the UWS EucFACE experimental results? I am looking at their home page and its says its an ongoing project and has no link to any results.

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      • #
        RicDre

        Peter Fitzroy:

        I did find this on Wikipedia:

        In 2004, a meta-analysis of 15 years of FACE studies, found the response to elevated CO2 using FACE only slightly increases yield in crop plants (5-7% in rice and 8% in wheat). These responses were lower than was expected from previous studies that measured the effect in labs or enclosures. This has important consequences as previous projections of food production have assumed that decreases in yield as a result of climate change would be offset by increases in yield due to elevated CO2.[7]

        As of 2010, a more complete picture is emerging, with significant difference in response being observed for different plant species, water availabilities and the concentration of ozone.[8] For example, the 2007-2010 Horsham FACE project (using wheat crops) in Victoria, Australia, found “The effect of eCO2 was to increase crop biomass at maturity by 20% and anthesis root biomass increased by 49%”.[9] This study also concludes that “a wide gene pool needs to be investigated to see if particular cultivars are able to respond more to eCO2″. Increased atmospheric carbon dioxide has been found to reduce plant water use, and consequently, the uptake of nitrogen, so particularly benefiting crop yields in arid regions.[10] The carbohydrate content of crops is increased from photosynthesis, but protein content is reduced due to lower nitrogen uptake. Legumes and their symbiotic “nitrogen fixing” bacteria appear to benefit more from increased carbon dioxide levels than most other species.

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        RicDre

        Peter Fitzroy:

        Another link and its conclusions:

        http://www.regional.org.au/au/asa/2008/concurrent/crop-growth/5866_norton.htm

        Conclusions

        This experiment has demonstrated the “fertilisation” effect of elevated carbon dioxide, as reported from areas with higher yield potentials than at Horsham. The main yield components affected by eCO2 in this experiment were kernels per spike and kernel weight, however these were at a low level of statistical confidence (P=0.07). The actual growth and yield outcomes from this experiment are in the general range of the meta-analyses reported for eCO2 impacts, and there were few significant interactions among the factors tested here between carbon dioxide concentration, time of sowing, water supply and cultivar.

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      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Go to the publications tab; hours of reading there

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        • #
          RicDre

          Peter Fitzroy:

          Thank you, I’ll check that tab.

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        • #
          RicDre

          Peter Fitzroy:

          I did find this in the Publications section from 2014: Elevated carbon dioxide and ozone alter productivity and ecosystem carbon content in northern temperate forests

          Abstract

          Three young northern temperate forest communities in the north‐central United States were exposed to factorial combinations of elevated carbon dioxide (CO2) and tropospheric ozone (O3) for 11 years. Here, we report results from an extensive sampling of plant biomass and soil conducted at the conclusion of the experiment that enabled us to estimate ecosystem carbon (C) content and cumulative net primary productivity (NPP). Elevated CO2 enhanced ecosystem C content by 11%, whereas elevated O3 decreased ecosystem C content by 9%. There was little variation in treatment effects on C content across communities and no meaningful interactions between CO2 and O3. Treatment effects on ecosystem C content resulted primarily from changes in the near‐surface mineral soil and tree C, particularly differences in woody tissues. Excluding the mineral soil, cumulative NPP was a strong predictor of ecosystem C content (r2 = 0.96). Elevated CO2 enhanced cumulative NPP by 39%, a consequence of a 28% increase in canopy nitrogen (N) content (g N m−2) and a 28% increase in N productivity (NPP/canopy N). In contrast, elevated O3 lowered NPP by 10% because of a 21% decrease in canopy N, but did not impact N productivity. Consequently, as the marginal impact of canopy N on NPP (∆NPP/∆N) decreased through time with further canopy development, the O3 effect on NPP dissipated. Within the mineral soil, there was less C in the top 0.1 m of soil under elevated O3 and less soil C from 0.1 to 0.2 m in depth under elevated CO2. Overall, these results suggest that elevated CO2 may create a sustained increase in NPP, whereas the long‐term effect of elevated O3 on NPP will be smaller than expected. However, changes in soil C are not well‐understood and limit our ability to predict changes in ecosystem C content.

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        • #
          RicDre

          Peter Fitzroy:

          I Found this: Predicting the future: Experiment finds higher carbon dioxide gives trees efficiency boost

          The first couple of paragraphs:

          Australia’s native forests will use water more efficiently in the future as the amount of carbon dioxide in the planet’s atmosphere increases, according to new findings from Australia’s largest climate change research experiment at Western Sydney University.

          The boost in efficiency could help forests during drought and warm spells such as those associated with El Niño. Forests are Earth’s biggest consumers of carbon dioxide – helping to balance increased output from industry, transport and other human activity.

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    • #
      el gordo

      The dry land greening around the world is due to extra CO2.

      ‘Dryland greening presents something of a paradox in our intuitive understanding of plant-water-CO2 interactions. Combining our meta-analysis results and early work, it illustrates that higher concentrations of atmospheric CO2 induce plant water saving and that consequent available soil water increases are a likely driver of the observed greening phenomena.’

      Xuefei Lu et al 2016

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    • #
      beowulf

      To PF
      Strange that plants just love to suck up CO2 if it makes no difference to them. Deficiency of CO2 is currently the norm and is a limiting factor for most plants.

      Back 6 months ago when you claimed 1,000ppm CO2 was the upper limit for plant tolerance, I quoted you some classic examples of major growth enhancement under high levels of CO2:

      http://www.co2science.org/articles/V12/N37/B3.php
      Wheat, cow peas and pinto beans in 2,800ppm CO2 for the life of the crop — 355% greater photosynthetic activity over the control 385ppm group.

      http://www.co2science.org/articles/V10/N50/B3.php
      Eldarica Pine with CO2 up to 3,000ppm for 15 months — “the photosynthetic response curve of the low-CO2-grown tree exhibited the classical form of a rate-limiting rectangular hyperbola, while that of the high-CO2-grown tree maintained its linearity to the highest CO2 concentration investigated . . . the photosynthetic rate of the high-CO2-grown tree was still rising linearly at a value approximately ten times greater than what it had exhibited at 360 ppm.”

      At the opposite end of the scale we have carbon dioxide starvation:

      “Carbon starvation in glacial trees recovered from the La Brea tar pits, southern California.”
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15642948

      Atmospheric CO2 concentration ([CO2]) ranged between 180 and 220 ppm during glacial periods . . .”
      “. . . glacial trees were operating at ci values much closer to the CO2-compensation point for C3 photosynthesis than modern trees, indicating that glacial trees were undergoing carbon starvation.”
      “. . . we found evidence that C3 primary productivity was greatly diminished in southern California during the last glacial period.

      “Carbon dioxide starvation, the development of C4 ecosystems, and mammalian evolution”
      https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/abs/10.1098/rstb.1998.0198
      The decline of atmospheric carbon dioxide over the last 65 million years (Ma) resulted in the ‘carbon dioxide–starvation’ of terrestrial ecosystems and led to the widespread distribution of C4 plants, which are less sensitive to carbon dioxide levels than are C3 plants.”
      “Further expansion of tropical C4 biomass in Africa also occurred during the last glacial interval confirming the link between atmospheric carbon dioxide levels and C4 biomass response.”
      “. . . an explanation for a global expansion of C4 biomass is carbon dioxide starvation of C3 plants when atmospheric carbon dioxide levels dropped below a threshold significant to C3 plants.”
      “Mammalian evolution in the late Neogene, then, may be related to the carbon dioxide starvation of C3 ecosystems.

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      • #
        beowulf

        And anticipating your next argument that insect predation will increase to reduce plant yields: it is also blown out of the water by many studies which show that predation, if it increases at all on certain plants, is offset by higher overall growth under higher CO2.

        Likewise, many studies show that plant pathogens are reduced under high CO2, contrary to your past assertions. It is hardly rocket science to find that plants growing vigorously have more resistance to disease than those starved of a major nutrient.

        You next probable argument that plant nutrients (protein) will decrease is undone by the many studies which show that
        • if nutrient ratios are maintained, there is no drop-off in protein levels
        • higher ambient CO2 promotes not just plant growth, but the associated soil micro-biota which feed the plant from below in natural field conditions, not sterile lab growing-media. Once higher carbon-cycling in the soil is established via greater biomass due to higher CO2, everything benefits, from microbes to plants, hence the use of biochar as an interim “fertiliser” etc.

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        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          none of those articles in CO2 science upped CO2 in isolation. As to the CO2 concentration, last time it was high was way back in the carboniferous (which is ferns for you) and is where most of the oil and coal deposits came from. the working hypothesis is that in that era so mucH CO2 was sequestered that it dropped the CO2 down to close to the historical level of 300 pmm (thereabouts). In fact, you could argue that our current biome is adapted to this level. That is not to say that some plants (those ferns for example) will do better under a higher CO2 concentration, but hey that’s only good if you like ferns. Personally I prefer the diversity we have now.

          so to your first point maintaining the ratio – double the CO2, double the fertiliser, double the water, etc – of course that would work, but it does not prove that double CO2 is a good thing.

          As to the soil microbiota

          according to science daily -increased atmospheric carbon dioxide limits soil storage. … “Increased plant growth caused by rising atmospheric carbon dioxide is associated with higher rates of carbon dioxide release from soil. If rising carbon dioxide enhances soil carbon storage at all, the effect will be small”. and
          Soil microbial responses to increased concentrations of atmospheric CO2 published in 2003 – “since the concentration of CO2 in soil is already 10–50 times higher than that in the atmosphere, it is unlikely that increasing atmospheric CO2 will directly influence the rhizosphere”.

          So do not see any real advantage to the planet, but hey that coal isn’t going to mine itself now is it.

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          • #
            AndyG55

            “that it dropped the CO2 down to close to the historical level of 300 pmm “

            at 280ppm , many plant literally stop growing,

            300ppm is DANGEROUSLY LOW for plant life on the planet.

            THANK GOODNESS for the climb to a more survivable 400+ ppm

            “Personally I prefer the diversity we have now. “

            And that diversity will only INCREASE under more plant sustainable CO2 levels.

            Nitrogen fixing bacteria increase their activity under raised CO2 levels..

            .. all is GOOD, little child. NO DOWN SIDE AT ALL

            ““since the concentration of CO2 in soil is already 10–50 times higher than that in the atmosphere, it is unlikely that increasing atmospheric CO2 will directly influence the rhizosphere”.”

            since the concentration of CO2 in the OCEANS is already many times higher than that in the atmosphere, it is unlikely that increasing atmospheric CO2 will directly influence the oceans.

            Poor little chook, destroys the ocean acidification fallacy in one statement.. Thanks :-)

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            AndyG55

            Raised CO2 level, above the barely sustainable levels of 300 or so ppm, increase the WHOLE CARBON CYCLE

            EVERYTHING BENEFITS.

            There is NO DOWN SIDE.

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          • #
            AndyG55

            ” double the CO2, double the fertiliser, double the water”

            A LIE.

            CO2 increase enables many plants to use LESS WATER.

            You really do lack basic comprehension skills, don’t you ZE-PF;

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          • #
            el gordo

            ‘As to the CO2 concentration, last time it was high was way back in the carboniferous …’

            I don’t accept that ice core proxy, a chemical reaction dilutes the signal. Stomata does a better job, I’ll search for a graph.

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          • #
            el gordo

            Tim Ball says the IPCC get their raw data from Taylor Dome and the ice core CO2 proxy is badly flawed.

            https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/01/20/what-do-the-ice-core-bubbles-really-tell-us/

            Stomata is best.

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          • #
            AndyG55

            “‘As to the CO2 concentration, last time it was high was way back in the carboniferous …’”

            WRONG AGAIN, PF

            That’s just the ones the AGW LIARS “selected”

            https://i.postimg.cc/dVq6fDRL/callCO2fudge.jpg

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          • #
            beowulf

            So many assertions.

            “None of those articles in CO2 science upped CO2 in isolation.” You just made that up didn’t you?

            Eg.
            Pine trees with 10X the photosynthesis:
            “Two Eldarica pine (Pinus eldarica L.) seedlings were grown out-of-doors in a field of Avondale loam at Phoenix, Arizona (USA) within transparent open-top enclosures, one of which was maintained for fifteen months at a mean atmospheric CO2 concentration of 402 ppm and one of which was simultaneously maintained at 788 ppm”.
            You were saying?

            You say “. . . it is unlikely that increasing atmospheric CO2 will directly influence the rhizosphere”

            CO2 Effects on Grassland Soil Microorganisms
            http://www.co2science.org/articles/V10/N24/B2.php

            “. . . found that in their 9-year-long FACE experiment, “stimulation of enzyme activities in the enriched CO2 indicated enhanced C, N and P cycling and greater availabilities of nutrients for microbial and plant growth” And they go on to say that their results “support the hypothesis of positive feedback proposed by Zak et al. (1993), who stated that additional C stimulates microbial decomposition and thus leads to more available N under enriched CO2.”

            Effects of Elevated CO2 on the Abundance of Protozoa in Soil
            http://www.co2science.org/articles/V6/N22/B1.php

            “protozoan grazing generally enhances carbon and nitrogen mineralization in soil,” which typically results in more nitrogen being made available to plants. This phenomenon, in turn, enables plants to significantly increase their biomass (as was observed in the CO2-enriched plants in this experiment) while not suffering reductions in tissue nitrogen concentration.

            The Impact of Atmospheric CO2 Enrichment on Soil Carbon Beneath a Wheat Crop
            http://www.co2science.org/articles/V13/N7/B2.php
            “in the root-free soil 27% more residual 14C was found in the free-air CO2-enriched soil than in the soil from the ambient treatment.” In addition, they say that in soil samples from both treatments about 80% of residual 14C was “integrated into the stable, clay bound soil organic matter pool,” which suggests, in their words, that “under FACE conditions a considerable contribution was made to the long-term storage of soil carbon in this soil.”

            And what of the CO2 starvation examples I gave you? Carboniferous doesn’t have a lot to do with Le Brea.

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    • #
      Matthew Bruha

      CO2 Science is constatntly updating its plant growth database

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    • #
      AndyG55

      ” the UWS EucFACE ”

      old eucalyptus, experimented on by non farmers.. so what..

      the eucy’s have sucked the supply of an essential micro-nutrient and can’t utilise the CO2 properly, that is all that experiment showed..

      Several thousands of studies say CO2 promotes plant growth.

      NOTHING you have ever put forward contradicts that FACT.

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      • #
        AndyG55

        And its only been going for less than 2 years.

        So funny, PF.. Come back in 10 years and try again, drone.

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      • #
        beowulf

        With that planting density those trees are going to be choking each other underground. It won’t be the CO2 that is their limiting factor. If they aren’t thinned they will start dying out naturally.

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  • #
    Robber

    The biggest myth of all: That a further 0.5°C of warming will be catastrophic.
    What has been catastrophic about the last 100 years with warming of about 1.0°C?
    There seem to be plenty of zombies now declaring it’s a climate emergency, the extinction of species.
    Meanwhile those alarmists all continue to live the good life, flying to conferences, driving fossil cars, and consuming electricity that is supplied 80% from fossil fuels.
    The real danger is that our education system and the media are increasingly run by the Thought Police.
    From Wikipedia: “In the novel Nineteen Eighty-Four (1949), by George Orwell, the Thought Police (Thinkpol) are the secret police of the superstate Oceania, who discover and punish thoughtcrime, personal and political thoughts unapproved by the Party. The Thinkpol use criminal psychology and omnipresent surveillance to search for and find, monitor and arrest all citizens of Oceania who would commit thoughtcrime in challenge to the status quo authority of the Party and the regime of Big Brother. In the story, the Thinkpol conduct false-flag operations to lure non-conformist members of the Party to expose themselves as politically subversive.”

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    • #
      TdeF

      Agreed. The temperature variation along the 2500km Great Barrier Reef is 5C but Sir David Attenborough says it is the greatest example of Climate Change. How? Then the variation from summer to winter is as big, but somehow the polyps cannot cope? What happened to Natural selection? If the water in the area sometimes gets hotter, how is that Climate Change?

      Apart from the total hypocrisy typical among the middle class Greens, the new angle of species extinction is absurd. New species are created every day. Old ones vanish. It is the flip side of natural selection and necessary and has been going on for billions of years. Homo Sapiens has only been around for 100,000 years. We are a new species. What happened to the old species? They could not compete with our advantages although gene analysis is showing we are 30% neanderthal. One day there will be a superior human species.

      Gene analysis also shows we have a 60% gene overlap with bananas. So is eating bananas cannibalism? The other odd thing is that the modern banana cannot reproduce as it is seedless, so humans grow banana trees from cuttings for the new crop. Without humans the seedless banana would be extinct.

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  • #
    el gordo

    ‘The ABC can take the punters money but it can’t allow taxpayers to comment … ‘

    Auntie is the propaganda wing of the klimatariat and don’t allow open debate, similar to China Daily.

    The story raised by the Murdocrcy (behind a paywall) on the new HSC geography curriculum, to include climate change, hasn’t turned up yet. Waiting …. waiting …. waiting …

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  • #
    Gee aye

    It is upsetting when someone steals one of your favourite words and uses it against you.

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  • #
    Graeme No.3

    star comment
    Good news…the great extinction at the End of the Permian was caused by
    Excess CO2 causing warming – as volcanoes don’t emit CO2 (ABC, The Age, The Guardian etc.) that would require only 29 trillion tons of lignite being burnt. It is JUST possible that lignite MIGHT have formed by then.
    Otherwise the extinction was caused by the burning coal emitting nickel, mercury or arsenic.
    As I pointed out on a previous thread coal/lignite can’t burn when covered with 2 kilometres of molten rock.

    that leaves Sulphur oxides (which form sulphuric acid with water), or hydrogen fluoride(in water it etches glass) or nitric oxides from lightning strikes etc. (nitric acid with water). As the ABC ignores these we must rely on nickel sulfide, methyl chloride, methyl bromide, hydrogen sulfide as put forward as possible causes. (the nickel acting as an essential element for methanogens which would have then switched to a sulphur cycle and the resulting hydrogen sulphide poisoning the sea creatures.
    Alternately there is the claim that extinction wasn’t due to global heating but to a severe ice age which lowered sea levels by 280 metres. While agreeing with a cold period others question the timing, and assigning it closer to the previous extinction event (the Guadalupian) 5 million years before. Others are undecided as to the length of the eruption of the Siberian Traps with estimates of 2 million years, or 900,000 years, or a series of minor eruptions with extinction coming after a short, sharp 37,000 years. Others have pointed out that some species became extinct before or after the event.
    But it any case we can be glad that THE SCIENCE IS SETTLED.

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  • #
    pat

    more about coal/Adani than nuclear. disclosure at end: Helen Coonan is non-executive director of Crown Casino. interview was recorded before allegations against Crown Casino were reported:

    AUDIO: 4min49sec: 29 Jul: ABC AM: Sabra Lane: New Minerals Council chair says nuclear power should be on the table
    The new chair of the Minerals Council of Australia and former Howard government minister, Helen Coonan, has become the latest business heavyweight to call for nuclear power to be considered as part of our energy mix…
    During her first interview as the new chair of the Minerals Council, Ms Coonan spoke with our senior business correspondent Peter Ryan, who first asked about her stance on mining regulation.
    https://www.abc.net.au/radio/adelaide/programs/am/minerals-council-chair-says-nuclear-power-should-be-on-the-table/11355262

    the Crown disclosure made me wonder when the above interview was done, given Coonan was appointed in May, and Ryan had already done a piece back then, anti-coal & political overtones. wouldn’t put it past ABC to have aired the piece today precisely because of Crown being in the news! lol:

    24 May: ABC: Helen Coonan appointed Minerals Council chair as coal tensions remain
    By senior business correspondent Peter Ryan
    Former Howard government minister Helen Coonan has been appointed chair of the Minerals Council of Australia (MCA), as the lobby group recasts its political relationships in the wake of Scott Morrison’s surprise election victory.

    Ms Coonan’s appointment, ***replacing outgoing chair and ABC director Vanessa Guthrie, makes her the first chair from outside the resources industry and comes after major players, including BHP and Rio Tinto, have over recent years threatened to quit the council over its pro-coal advocacy.

    Ms Coonan — also an independent director at Crown Entertainment and chair of the Australian Financial Complaints Authority — was endorsed as the MCA’s chair shortly before Labor’s unexpected election loss.
    The ABC understands the outlook for a Labor victory and the ability to open doors in Canberra were critical factors in the selection process.
    In comments that will be welcomed by Adani and other miners, Ms Coonan said one of her key priorities would be to speed up approvals of mine projects…

    Unlike Ms Coonan, outgoing MCA chair Vanessa Guthrie comes from within the resources industry and is the former managing director of Toro Energy and a current non-executive director at Santos.
    Ms Coonan’s appointment comes as mining giants like BHP and Glencore reconsider their investments in thermal coal projects given the bleak outlook for the market and greater investor activism for better disclosure about fossil fuel exposure.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-24/helen-coonan-appointed-minerals-council-chair/11145372

    Wikipedia: Vancessa Guthrie: …Director of Australia’s public broadcaster, the ABC…She is a former director of Toro Energy Ltd ***and remains a shareholder of the company.

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    • #
      pat

      the minute AM ended the above segment, Rachel Mealey in the Brisbane studio said coming up after the news headlines – the Anglican Church in Queensland takes a stand on climate change:

      Daily Examiner – 9 hours ago
      THE bells will toll at Christ Church Cathedral in Grafton – and around Australia – today signifying a climate emergency for Earth Overshoot Day, serving as a rallying … If this trend continues, the “overshoot day” will occur earlier in the year. … Grafton will join Anglican cathedrals in Hobart, Adelaide, Bendigo…

      Facebook: Australian Religious Response to Climate Change (ARRCC)
      24 Jul: EXCITING. WHY NOT GET INVOLVED IN THIS?
      Next Monday cathedrals and churches in across Australia will be tolling their bells to mark Earth Overshoot Day, the day when humanity’s demands for ecological resources (including fish, forests, fresh water, etc) exceed what the Earth can renew in a year.
      They will be tolling their Church bells or lighting a candle from 11.48am, for the 12 minutes until midday, marking the 12 years that the IPCC has foreshadowed as a critical tipping point…
      (right column) Related Pages:
      #1: School Strike 4 Climate…
      Stop Adani Cairns
      Far North Queensland Greens…
      Peter Garrett etc
      https://www.facebook.com/ARRCC/posts/exciting-why-not-get-involved-in-thisnext-monday-cathedrals-and-churches-in-acro/2435932213137015/

      25 Jul: Anglican Schools Commission: Monday 29 July is Earth Overshoot Day for 2019
      by Kerryn Smith
      Earth Overshoot Day is the day when humanity’s demands for ecological resources (including fish, forests, fresh water, etc) exceed what the Earth can renew in a year. This year it will fall on Monday 29 July.
      Collectively, we are over-consuming and over-exploiting our resources. Our unreasonable demands on the Earth are driven by our attitudes and disconnect towards the Earth, our common home.

      Last October the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) warned that we have just 12 years to avoid catastrophic climate. In May, another United Nations report suggested we are heading towards the extinction of one million species.
      Climate change and biodiversity loss are just some of many tragic warning signs of our broken relationship with God’s Creation – we are losing sight of our interrelationship with all living things…
      CATHEDRALS INVOLVED in BELL RINGING AND LITURGIES: ETC
      https://www.ascqld.org/monday-29-july-is-earth-overshoot-day-for-2019/

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        Annie

        I have lost all patience with the church hierarchy…they certainly don’t speak for me.
        I love proper church bells but hate their use for PC reasons.

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        PADRE

        What a load of tosh! My experience of church synod etc is that the proponents haven’t a clue what they are talking about. I’m going to have a go at our next diocesan synod.

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        theRealUniverse

        ‘Earth Overshoot Day is the day when humanity’s demands for ecological resources (including fish, forests, fresh water, etc) exceed what the Earth can renew in a year. This year it will fall on Monday 29 July.’ Were doomed just looked out the window the black clouds are coming! FAST.

        Overshoot, thats a new one ,has to be a new one each week, wont they give up.
        I dont think the lastest grasshopper swarm would count as an ‘overshoot’?

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        OriginalSteve

        im disappointed churches are so clueless in this space….they should know better….

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  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    ‘I’m seeing it disappear before my eyes’: crisis point in Australia’s wet tropics by Deborah Snow -

    “Something unprecedented was happening at the top of Mount Bartle Frere, North Queensland’s highest peak.

    At 1611 metres high, the mountain’s upper reaches are in what is meant to be a cool temperate zone.

    But instead of normal summer readings at the peak, which rarely top 25, temperatures had soared past 35 degrees for six days in a row, culminating in one scorcher of 39.

    If the trends continue, populations at sites that previously had the highest density of lemuroid ringtail possums could become locally extinct as early as 2022.”

    https://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/i-m-seeing-it-disappear-before-my-eyes-crisis-point-in-australia-s-wet-tropics-20190726-p52azh.html

    Deborah Snow travelled to Cairns as a guest of the Australian Conservation Foundation.

    We can only hope for the “many of the unique animal species which inhabit the ancient rainforests of North Queensland” it wasn’t a fossil-fuelled jaunt.

    Oh, wait … who will think of the lemuroid ringtail possums now?

    >> And it is not 2022, but 2020: We don’t have 12 years to save the climate. We have 14 months.

    https://thinkprogress.org/we-dont-have-12-years-to-save-the-climate-we-have-14-months-71401316dbc4/

    Undeniably the worst apocalypse. Ever.

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      Graeme No.3

      A ring tailed reporter?

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      • #
        Greg in NZ

        ‘Over here’ possums are legally classified as ‘invasive pests’ hence we shoot ‘em, 1080 poison ‘em, and if seen scurrying across a road at night – kadunk!

        A ‘c0nsp!racy’ occurs when two or more parties agree to (quietly) ‘breathe together‘ to achieve a certain goal or goals. They which shall not be linked to – otherwise known as Stuff(ed) – have issued a list of “60 global news outlets taking strong stance on climate change coverage“. I’ve saved this nonsense article into my ‘Catastrophic Climate Change rap’ folder, hence my use of the abbreviation, CCCrap! Some of the Newspeakinc. guilty parties are (the usual suspects):

        The Grauniad, HuffPo, Scam (Scientific American), The NON-versation, Vox, Slate, The Intercept, The Lancet, The Spinoff and Newsroom (NZ). As is their wont – the likes of Nick Kilvert (ABC) and his fellow sycophants – they accuse others of the crime they themselves commit, namely being Climate Zombies [a soulless corpse, person completely unresponsive to their surroundings, lifeless] from Kikongo zumbi ‘fetish’.

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      glen Michel

      That article is rubbish.You don’t get such variance in that location usually.Last Year there was a “heatwave” that affected Tropical QLD that brought abnormally high temperatures to the region; the synoptic setup accounts for this spike with a long stretch of arid air reaching eastern QLD. Otherwise they have inserted their probe into the leaf litter!

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    TdeF

    Following a discussion further up on how all living things are made from CO2, wouldn’t it be nice if the ABC did a program on CO2? Not the terrible world ending greenhouse effect, but the Van Helmont experiment, a 75kg tree which used only 57gms of soil. Or the role of carbon dioxide in respiration where a human can output as much CO2 as a car, 0.04% going in and 24% CO2 coming out.

    Or the role carbon plays in all smelting, creating the metals we need in every day life by using carbon and carbon dioxide to reduce metal oxides to pure metal. Or the creating of the miracle invention concrete for our roads, bridges and buildings? The benefits and uses of recyclable carbon dioxide are endless. They could also make the simple point that 98% of all free CO2 is dissolved and compressed in the vast oceans and that the world has had a huge CO2 shortage, pushing many plants to the brink of extinction for lack of CO2. At 0.02% life would cease to exist.

    Champagne, lemonade, bread, cheese, metals, beer, all part of the CO2 story. As important as water in life on earth.

    In other words, fulfill their charter. Tell the real science of CO2. Not the made up horror stories of Al Gore. The inconvenient truth is that Al Gore knows no science at all.

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      TdeF

      The only reason ancient man did not worship Carbon Dioxide is that he didn’t know it existed. Photosynthesis has only two chemical inputs, water and CO2. And fossil fuels are not evil, they are old trees and leaves, a gift which has been used to drag us out of the stone age. We need to use this opportunity to create energy sources of the future by master of fusion or we will soon run out of uranium too. The key to our modern world is commandable power. Unfortunately wind and solar are neither adequate nor commandable and they chew up more resources and land than any other power source and generate more CO2 than they save and do nothing to provide power when and where we need it.

      Imagine the glorious vistas of the Tour De France in a landscape covered with windmills and solar farms.

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    pat

    digging deeper into community radio station 4RPH, an ***ABC veteran makes an appearance:

    12 Jun: PIC: Radio 4RPH Board Directors Jan Huggett and ***Spencer Howson, along with Station Manager Scott Black, were out and about with members of Queensland Government and Brisbane City Council last night. Radio 4RPH was proud to stand with our brothers and sisters in the community broadcasting sector to share how important our sector is to Queensland Media…
    https://ms-my.facebook.com/Radio4RPH/posts/2319007171692049

    ***Wikipedia: Spencer Howson
    He was the host of Breakfast on 612 ABC Brisbane and when he resigned he had worked for the ABC for 25 years…
    Spencer’s first radio experience was at Brisbane community station 4RPH, part of the Australia-wide Radio Print Handicapped Network, from 1990 to 1993. In 1991, at the age of 19, Spencer was elected Vice President of the 4RPH board of directors. After an absence of 26 years, he returned to the 4RPH board in February 2019…
    Howson also writes a daily news email The Gateway for newspaper The Brisbane Times…
    Along with this, Howson began tutoring radio students at USQ Springfield…
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spencer_Howson

    4RPH airs The Wire – made by a consortium of progressive community broadcasters – Radio Adelaide, 2SER Sydney (owned by UTS & Macquarie Uni) and 4EB Brisbane – which regularly features CAGW. the latest edition I heard included:

    AUDIO: 6min23sec: 26 Jul: TheWire: Nearly half Australia’s coastal habitat damaged by climate change: study
    A team of researchers led by the CSIRO found up to 45 per cent of Australia’s coastline has been affected by extreme weather events since 2011.
    Looking at a six year period, they found a whole range of habitats from kelp forests in southwestern Western Australia to the Great Barrier Reef suffered from higher water temperatures and extreme weather.
    Russell Babcock, Senior Researcher, CSIRO
    http://thewire.org.au/story/nearly-half-australias-coastal-habitat-damaged-by-climate-change-study/

    Climate hurting nearly half of marine life
    The Australian-25 Jul 2019
    That’s almost “four times the length of coastline impacted by the Gulf of Mexico oil spill”, said lead author of the study Dr Russ Babcock…

    26 Jul: TheConversation: Extreme weather caused by climate change has damaged 45% of Australia’s coastal habitat
    Authors:
    Russ Babcock, Senior Principal Research Scientist, CSIRO
    Anthony Richardson, Professor, The University of Queensland
    Beth Fulton, CSIRO Research Group Leader Ecosystem Modelling and Risk Assessment, CSIRO
    Eva Plaganyi, Senior Principal Research Scientist, CSIRO
    Rodrigo Bustamante, Research Group Leader , CSIRO
    Disclosure statements:
    Russ Babcock; currently receiving funding from CSIRO, DoEE, BHP, GBRF.
    Anthony Richardson receives funding from the Australian Research Council and the Commonwealth Department of Education (NCRIS)
    Beth Fulton receives funding from CSIRO, AFMA, FRDC, Lenfest Oceans Programme, FAO, the Canadian and Norwegian governments. Beth is also a Pew Marine Fellow.
    Eva Plaganyi receives funding from CSIRO, AFMA, FRDC
    Rodrigo Bustamante receives funding from CSIRO

    Our research, published yesterday in Frontiers in Marine Science (LINK), looked at the large-scale impacts of a series of extreme climate events on coastal marine habitats around Australia.
    We found more than 45% of the coastline was already affected by extreme weather events caused by climate change. What’s more, these ecosystems are struggling to recover as extreme events are expected to get worse…
    There is growing scientific evidence (LINK) that heatwaves, floods, droughts and cyclones are increasing in frequency and intensity, and that this is caused by climate change…
    http://theconversation.com/extreme-weather-caused-by-climate-change-has-damaged-45-of-australias-coastal-habitat-120671

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      pat

      also on 4RPH (RADIO FOR PRINT HANDICAPPED) this morning, “Democracy Now” with many multiples of “climate catastrophe” “climate crisis” “climate emergency” etc.

      video begins automatically around 44min49sec for the segment below, which continues to the end 59min02sec:

      VIDEO: 15 Jul: Democracy Now: Amy Goodman: “Fossil Fuel Stooges” Pence & Trump Deny Climate Crisis as Deadly Rains Slam Louisiana & South Asia
      Guests:
      Dahr Jamail
      staff reporter at Truthout and author of The End of Ice: Bearing Witness and Finding Meaning in the Path of Climate Disruption
      TRANSCRIPT:
      AMY GOODMAN: I want to turn to an interview last month Vice President Pence did, repeatedly refusing to say the climate crisis is a threat to the United States. He was interviewed by CNN’s Jake Tapper…

      AMY GOODMAN: There is the vice president of the United States refusing to say climate change — that the climate crisis is a threat. Your response, Dahr Jamail, as he says you have to look at the science?

      DAHR JAMAIL: Well, it’s certainly not a surprise that these fossil fuel stooges of this administration would react exactly as Pence just did. I mean, they have their talking points, they have their marching orders, and they’re just simply executing them. Meanwhile, if we look around the world at what’s happening, again, the evidence is right in front of our face.
      You know, there’s so many Native American stories that have talked about what happens when we do not live in harmony with Mother Nature, and what happens if we get out of balance with that. One of them that I’ve written about and discussed is a story from the Pit River Nation, told by Darryl Wilson of the Pit River Nation of northeastern California. And just as an example, he talks about a spirit force called Mis Misa that lives inside of Akoo-Yet, the mountain that white people named Mount Shasta. And as long as humans listen very carefully and comport themselves correctly towards that mountain and listen to that spirit voice, nature will be kept in balance. But if people stop listening altogether, and if enough people stop listening, then that spirit force, Mis Misa, will go away and stop singing, and everything on the planet will go out of balance, and life therein vulnerable to extinction. And that’s just one of countless stories and prophecies that warned of exactly what is upon us…

      AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to say, a senior State Department intelligence analyst has recently resigned in protest after the Trump administration blocked parts of his written testimony to Congress about the dangers of climate change. In June, analyst Rod Schoonover was permitted to appear before the House Intelligence Committee to testify about the national security risks posed by global warming, but the White House barred him from submitting peer-reviewed scientific journal articles and intelligence reports as evidence to back his claims. Part of his censored testimony to Congress read, quote, “Absent extensive mitigating factors or events, we see few plausible future scenarios where significant—possibly catastrophic—harm does not arise from the compounded effects of climate change.” Catastrophic harm. But he wasn’t allowed to say this to Congress.
      And I want to talk about some of those just catastrophic harms…

      AMY GOODMAN: And then talk about who it affects. A U.N. expert has warned we’re on track for a climate apartheid, where wealthy people can pay their way out of the consequences of climate devastation, while others will face hunger, conflict, mass displacement. The new report is by Philip Alston, the U.N. special rapporteur on extreme poverty and human rights, concluding the U.N. and the larger human rights community has been complacent in the planet’s impending disaster, and that even if current global emissions targets are met, millions will be impoverished, poorer nations expecting to bear at least 75% of the costs of climate change, even as the poorer half of the world’s population generates just 10% of global emissions. Dahr?…ETC
      https://www.democracynow.org/2019/7/15/nepal_india_bangladesh_flooding_climate_crisis

      it worries me that any taxpayer money goes to these community radio stations.

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    Robber

    Andrew Bolt column behind paywall: Scientists Protect Against Climate Alarmism.
    90 scientists from Italy signed joint petition to end the fake climate alarmism. “The anthropic origin of global warming is an unproven hypothesis,deduced only from some climate models.”

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    pat

    AUDIO: 27 Jul: ABC The Science Show: How Brexit threatens science
    As the likely separation becomes closer, the effects of uncertainty are being felt in science. Collaboration and free movement of people allow science to flourish. President of The Royal Society, Venki Ramakrishnan discusses the implications of Brexit with Natasha Mitchell briefly here on The Science Show and in full on Science Friction this week and next.
    TRANSCRIPT
    Venkatraman Ramakrishnan: I think the uncertainty is possibly even worse than any sort of outcome because people are very anxious…
    Natasha Mitchell: There have been reports that students are already turning away, researchers are already turning away from the UK because of the uncertainty around funding and positions. Have you got evidence to suggest that’s happening?

    Venkatraman Ramakrishnan: There is some evidence about students, because students from the EU, their subsidies may be in question after Brexit. But actually if you look at postgraduate students, postdocs, faculty members and working scientists and so on, every time I’ve asked for data rather than anecdotal evidence, I haven’t found yet a clear signal of either people not coming or people leaving because of Brexit. But the danger is that by the time we can actually see that in the numbers, it means that the perception has already changed and it’s almost too late. And this is something I’ve tried to explain to politicians, that by the time we produce the evidence, it may be too late, and so you really have to take our word that there is this feeling about Britain, there is this anxiety and you need to do something about it now…

    Robyn Williams: The sane voice of science, amid the Brexit turmoil. Professor Venki Ramakrishnan, president of the Royal Society of London, with Natasha Mitchell
    https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/scienceshow/how-brexit-threatens-science/11351452

    Wikipedia: Venkatraman Ramakrishnan fears a no deal Brexit would harm science. Ramakrishnan wrote, “A deal on science is in the best interests of Europe as a whole and should not be sacrificed as collateral damage over disagreements on other issues. If we are going to successfully tackle global problems like climate change, human disease and food security, we can’t do so in isolation. There is no scenario where trashing our relationships with our closest scientific collaborators in the EU gets us closer to these goals.”

    following – Donald Trump “loo paper” makes an appearane inside the first minute. Boris/Brexit. scientists. Natasha: the uncertainty is doing people’s heads in. 15min45sec Dr Berta Terre Torras, who has already worked all around the world, likes no borders, no walls, so she can go where she likes:

    AUDIO: 29min42sec: 28 Jul: ABC Science Friction: Brexit gets personal: borders, brains and science
    A whistle-stop tour into the lives of young European scientists and their wunderlust.
    For them Brexit is deeply personal. Moving stories of lives shaped by bitter politics
    A life in science is often a story of mobility, migration, and exchange – between borders, brains and labs…
    FEATURED…etc
    https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/sciencefriction/borders-and-brains—brexit-gets-personal/11349872

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    theRealUniverse

    “Professors of Atmospheric physics are brain sucking zombie deniers, involved in a big fossil funded conspiracy.”
    THis loontard should do some research (an impossibility for him) and see that the OPPOSITE is true, big oil supports the scam, they can make money, and NO not ONE of the skeptics has any funding from, Exxon, Shell, BP, OPEC or any of the others.

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    pat

    behind paywall:

    27 Jul: UK Telegraph: Electricity bills could double to bail out new wind farms, report claims
    By Victoria Ward
    Electricity bills could double to bail out new wind farms that have massively underestimated their operating costs, a former adviser to the World Bank has claimed.
    Two offshore wind projects secured contracts to supply renewable energy at reduced costs in 2017 and it was hailed the result of huge strides made in technology and engineering, sparking hopes of a green jobs boom.

    But Gordon Hughes, a professor of economics at Edinburgh University, claims that almost no attention had been paid to whether the contracts were sustainable and what would happen if they were not.
    In a report for the ***Global Warming Policy Foundation, a climate sceptic thinktank, he argues that the possible outcomes were…
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/27/electricity-bills-could-double-bail-new-wind-farms-report-claims/

    28 Jul: UK Times: Climate Change Advisory Council set on culling Ireland’s sacred cows
    Beef farmers are under pressure to switch lands to forestry to cut greenhouse gases, writes Valerie Flynn
    Last week the Climate Change Advisory Council (CCAC), the environmental watchdog, called for a big cut in cattle kept by farmers such as Biggins to offset the expansion of the more profitable dairy sector and ensure Ireland can meet its EU greenhouse gas emissions target for 2030.
    The announcement was significant, as it is the first time a state body has said what environmentalists have long been arguing: Ireland has too many cows.

    The report’s high-powered authors include Gerry Boyle, director of agricultural development agency Teagasc, as well as the directors of the Environmental Protection Agency, the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland and the Economic and Social Research Institute…
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/climate-change-advisory-council-set-on-culling-ireland-s-sacred-cows-lcmbg352r

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      pat

      links to 17-page report:

      27 Jul: GWPF: Electricity Bills Could Double To Bail Out New Wind Farms, Report Claims
      The Sunday Telegraph
      Electricity bills could double to bail out new wind farms that have massively underestimated their operating costs, a former adviser to the World Bank has claimed
      In a report for the Global Warming Policy Foundation (LINK), a climate sceptic thinktank, he argues that the possible outcomes were “stark”, likening the Moray East project in Scotland to a “very high stakes game of poker” and questioning how it could possibly be profitable.
      “Either a consortium made up of large overseas energy companies and financial institutions is deliberately planning to lose money, or UK electricity customers will find themselves having to pay much higher prices so as to permit lenders to recover their loans and the developers to earn some kind of return on their equity,” he claims.[…]

      The developers argue that they take on all the financial risk of delivering the Government projects and no costs will be passed onto consumers.
      However, Prof Hughes claims that even if the Moray East project performed well above long term averages, it could only earn a reasonable return on equity if the revenue per megawatt hour was 50 per cent higher than the strike price.
      “That in turn will require a market price for electricity that is slightly more than double the market price in the first half of 2019,” he notes…
      https://www.thegwpf.com/electricity-bills-could-double-to-bail-out-new-wind-farms-report-claims/

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      Another Ian

      Best of British luck with India then

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    theRealUniverse

    ‘The warming has happened before and the runaway greenhouse didn’t happen’ Runaway GHG is unphysical.
    Sorry I, and probably others on here, disagree with the parts written in point #1. Point #1 is true, CO2 doesnt cause warming. Please provide proof of the opposite. But that is science we dont fight over it or suppress it not like the LOONTARDS and ABC, and RNZ, as this guy is.

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    theRealUniverse

    From Bolt..(Nothing with Bolt is just the numbers in the article).
    “A figure China has been forced to report, and which has been ignored by almost everyone saying Australia must slash its own emissions to save the planet: “Greenhouse gas emissions by China hit 12.3 billion tonnes in 2014, up 53.5% in just a decade, the country’s environment ministry says.” So China ADDED 12 times Australia’s total emissions.”
    Another stupid NUMBER. ’12.3 billion tonnes’
    Heres why…Total part on the atmospheric mass – billion tonnes is about 1 molecule in 10000000. thats 12.3 molecules in 10000000…Compared to TOTAL CO2 in Atmosphere (depending on where you measure it) 3-4 molecules per 1000 (N2 O2)).
    So what is the next issue please! This shows the hype and lunacy of the so called NUMBERS game, designed to scare. Dont dig too deep you may get stuck!

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    pat

    this is best posted here rather than on jo’s new thread. quite creepy:

    28 Jul: Scotsman: Ilona Amos: Young Scots environmentalists head for Swiss summit
    Eight Scots aged between ten and 20 are going to Lausanne to take part in a five-day European summit organised by the school strike campaign group Fridays For Future.
    They will join around 500 like-minded youngsters from 37 countries at the SMILE convention, where they will get together to discuss ideas and plan strategies for getting their message across.
    Among them are primary school pupils Finlay Pringle, 11, and his 10-year-old sister Ella, from Ullapool…TOO SILLY TO EXCERPT ANY FURTHER
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/environment/young-scots-environmentalists-head-for-swiss-summit-1-4972376

    25 Jul: RTL: Four young Luxembourgers to attend Swiss summit with Greta Thunberg
    by Thomas Toussaint
    Four young activists from Youth for Climate Luxembourg are to attend the August “Smile for Future” summit in Switzerland. Another notable attendee is Swedish activist Greta Thunberg.
    More than 450 participants from 37 different countries will meet in Lausanne, Switzerland, from 5 to 9 August for the summer gathering of the “Fridays for Future” movement…
    Several conferences and discussion groups will be held onsite to unite the movements and define their common objectives, before a day of demonstrations on 9 August…

    (SIMILAR NON-ENGLISH PIECES ARE ONLINE FOR OTHER COUNTRIES)

    19 Jul: Uni of Lausanne (UNIL): Greta Thunberg alongside Nobel Prize winner Jacques Dubochet in Lausanne
    From 5 to 9 August at UNIL, over 450 young climate strikers from 37 European countries, including Greta Thunberg, will participate in the SMILE For Future Summit. Their goal? Define an action strategy in the face of the climate crisis that threatens the planet.
    The SMILE For Future meeting will include plenary discussions, workshops, presentations, group work sessions and many other activities.
    Full details on the SMILE For Future press release (LINK).
    https://news.unil.ch/display/1563520125190

    18 Jul 2019: Smile for Future Press Release (French)
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1O6x-DkOx8PsbL-mGgj5QwJDoP7w5v0eH/view

    CAN’T COPY AND PASTE PRESS RELEASE, BUT IT SAYS:

    In addition to Greta Thunberg, the Summit of the Climate Strikes in Lausanne can count on the presence of Nobel Prize winner Jacques Dubochet who will be there to assist the militants/activists. Other personalities will also be present in Lausanne with her:
    (MENTIONS THE FOLLOWING)

    Wikipedia: Roger Hallam is a British environmental activist, a co-founder of Extinction Rebellion and cooperative federation organisation Radical Routes…
    He stood unsuccessfully in the 2019 European Parliament election in the London constituency as an independent, winning 924 of the 2,241,681 votes cast.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Hallam

    Wikipedia: Rupert Read is an academic and a Green Party campaigner and a spokesperson for Extinction Rebellion. Read is currently a reader in philosophy at the University of East Anglia[1] where he has been awarded – as Principal Investigator – Arts and Humanities Research Council (AHRC) funding for two projects on “natural capital”…
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Read

    Wikipedia: Ernst Ulrich von Weizsäcker (born 25 June 1939 in Zürich, Switzerland) is a German scientist and politician (SPD). He was a member of the German Bundestag and currently serves as co-president of the Club of Rome jointly with Anders Wijkman…
    A bestselling author in Germany, his English language books include Earth Politics (1994), Factor Four: Doubling Wealth, Halving Resource Use (1995), Factor 5 (2009) and Limits to Privatization (2005).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Ulrich_von_Weizs%C3%A4cker

    Wikipedia: Kaveh Madani
    He was formerly the Deputy Head of Iran’s Department of Environment (also Iran’s Deputy Vice President). He also served as the Vice President of the United Nations Environmental Assembly…
    Madani is a Visiting Professor at the Centre for Environmental Policy of Imperial College London and a Henry Hart Rice Senior Fellow at the Department of Political Science and the MacMillan Canter for International and Area Studies at Yale University.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaveh_Madani

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      pat

      a little background on Jacques Dubochet:

      18 Apr: House of Switzerland: Jacques Dubochet, Nobel Laureate
      Science & Education
      Swiss biophysicist Jacques Dubochet, 75, has being doing volunteer work since he retired. He intends to take advantage of his sudden fame to raise awareness of issues he cares deeply about, like migration and climate change…
      As 10 December looms near, what the chemistry Nobel laureate and his family are most worried about is what they are going to wear for the award ceremony in Stockholm…

      A member of the Vaud ***Socialist Party, Jacques Dubochet has always been a very engaged citizen…
      He thinks that “the world is not doing enough” to address the issues of migration and climate change: “We must find a way to live together because we are all facing the same problems. The C02 that is harming us is a threat to the entire planet.”…
      https://www.houseofswitzerland.org/swissstories/science-education/jacques-dubochet-nobel-laureate

      reminder:

      15 Mar: SMH: Teenage climate activist nominated for Nobel Peace Prize
      Three Norwegian lawmakers have nominated Swedish teen activist Greta Thunberg, who has become a prominent voice in campaigns against climate change, for the Nobel Peace Prize.
      Freddy Andre Oevstegaard and two other members of the ***Socialist Left Party said they believe “the massive movement Greta has set in motion is a very important peace contribution”.
      https://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/teenage-climate-activist-nominated-for-nobel-peace-prize-20190315-p514f4.html

      how many families, whose children get mixed up in this nonsense, realise the socialist makeup of those who are pulling the strings?

      it’s also creepy that all those mentioned in the press release are men! not exactly diverse. lol.

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    Another Ian

    ” If broadcasters still cared about the editorial independence of their employees, then comments like this [aired on Twitter] would not be made by their journalists. For they further reveal what most of the public have come to suspect – that broadcasters presenting themselves as non-partisan in fact hold very clear political views and that these usually veer in a particular direction… Of course, people have always harboured their suspicions, but not until journalists began to freely give away their thoughts on social media was such a smorgasbord of evidence presented…

    On one single occasion in recent years has a television presenter let slip a view that did not fall into lockstep with the narrow orthodoxies of the broadcasting class. When Politics Live presenter Andrew Neil sent out one tweet last year mocking the increasingly conspiratorial Observer writer Carole Cadwalladr, he not only deleted the tweet but himself immediately became a news story. There were swift calls for his sacking, and the BBC felt compelled to publicly chastise Neil. As it happens, despite being almost uncontested as the country’s leading political interviewer, Neil no longer has a regular slot on the BBC.”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2019/07/29/they-know-we-can-hear-them-right/

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    Another Ian

    Not so O/T but bloody exceptional!

    “The University of Alaska was, until recently, a centre of climate pseudoscience whose objective was to destroy the industry that put bread on the table of most Alaskans.

    Alaskans have finally had enough of tenured Democrats from the lower 48 both sucking their blood and stabbing them in the back.

    The university’s budget has been cut 41 percent to allow the state to maintain the current level of Alaska Permanent Fund dividends, paid for out of oil revenues—$3000 per Alaskan man, woman and child, often enough for a family to live on when the man of the house is between jobs.

    Meanwhile, 2,000 university employees, including professional climate hoaxers, face termination and, with no other job prospects in Alaska, having to leave the state for good. Actual Alaskans get to keep their own money.

    This is what government by normal people looking out for the interest of normal people looks like. First order of business—give working people back the money they worked for, and serve notice to the bloodsuckers to move on.”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2019/07/29/july-29-2019-reader-tips/#comment-1226344

    “JCU Vice Chancellor Please Answer Your Phone”

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      Serp

      There’s a little more marrow in the Reuters bone including “The university, especially the Fairbanks campus, is considered a world-class hub for Arctic and climate-change research, and some Dunleavy critics have accused the governor of targeting the university because of that.”

      They ply the Leeching Off The Arctic shtick analogous to JCU’s leeching off the GBR; it’s a pity there isn’t a population benevolent fund to which the JCU government largesse could be diverted.

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    pat

    behind paywall:

    Clover Moore says no to park night lights to improve women’s safety over carbon footprint
    Daily Telegraph – 21 hours ago
    The injection of climate change concerns into a public safety matter was spelled out in written advice from Council’s lighting, parks and safe city team after Deputy Mayor Linda Scott requested the lighting upgrade at Prince Alfred Park in Surry Hills…
    Women afraid to exercise after dark in an inner-city park have had their request for better lighting refused by Sydney City Council on grounds that it would “add to the city’s carbon footprint”…

    someone posted a link to the above on their twitter page and I noted a couple of the replies:

    1) I look forward to ‘Vivid’ being scaled down next year then

    2) And the fireworks.

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      pat

      found more detail:

      29 Jul: Whimn: Women Afraid To Exercise In Dark Park Denied Lights On Environmental Grounds
      The women have resorted to bringing torches to the Sydney park to feel safe.
      by Edwina Carr Barraclough
      The Daily Telegraph reports that Sydney City Council refused the request because additional lighting would “add to the city’s carbon footprint”.
      The potential lighting upgrade at Prince Alfred Park in Surry Hills was put forward by Deputy Mayor Linda Scott after she was approached by women concerned about dark areas of the park, around 20 metres from the main lit path, where fitness equipment is located.
      Some women have started to bring camping torches with them so they feel safe when using the equipment early in the morning or late at night.

      Ariane Psomotragos, who contacted Scott about the lack of lighting, often frequents the park when it’s dark and says she only feels safe exercising with a torch in tow.
      “As a young woman I would not feel safe there alone,” she told the Daily Telegraph.
      “In a group situation it is OK, but if someone forgets to bring the flashlight it’s all over.”…

      Scott, who has helped to increase lighting in several other City of Sydney Council parks on similar grounds, says women’s safety should be paramount.
      “We must light our parks and dark spaces, while being smarter about acting to address climate change,” she said.

      The Daily Telegraph reports that a spokesperson for City of Sydney Council said the lighting request would be followed up.
      https://www.whimn.com.au/talk/news/women-afraid-to-exercise-in-dark-park-denied-lights-on-environmental-grounds/news-story/61393344817a5ee5f2b9d890fd391ccb

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    neil

    I wouldn’t be dismissing Milankovitch cycles it is just as sound a hypotheses as AGW and applying Occam’s razor principle is a more probable cause of climate variation.

    And as for scientists are only in it for the money, this is not unique to climate science, obviously it rubs off on the bordering fields like zoology and horticulture. But we also see this in Astrophysics, just as once if you wanted grant money you had to study the now debunked string theory, now you mush worship dark matter/energy despite it also failing Occam’s razor principle compared to the multiverse hypotheses. But you can’t get grants to study an hypotheses that can’t be proved so everyone works on another improbable hypotheses and the gravy train keeps rolling.

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      el gordo

      I like the multiverse hypothesis because it explains the ‘big bang’, the deity wan’t behind it.

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    pat

    for the record – the hypocrisy of theirABC in a few links. ABC might be regretting the first piece:

    27 Jul: ABC: What the ‘milkshaking’ zeitgeist says about our relationship to politics
    RN By Buffy Gorrilla for Blueprint for Living
    PIC: Pro-Brexit politician Nigel Farage copped a milkshake while on the hustings earlier this year.
    Everyone loves to see their political foes covered in food.
    After all, what could be more humiliating than being smacked with an egg that then runs down your face?
    Earlier this year, opponents of Fraser Anning praised “Egg Boy” after he egged the then-senator at an event in Melbourne, kicking off a debate about the limits of political violence.

    Meanwhile, in the UK, milkshakes were hurled at politicians and right-wing figures like Nigel Farage and Tommy Robinson ahead of the European elections.
    It made the world news, some fast food chains banned milkshakes from being sold, and “milkshaking” was officially part of the zeitgeist
    Whether it’s milkshakes, eggs or cream pies, the idea of hurling food as a form of protest has been around for a while.

    Sarah Wassberg Johnson, a food historian and museum professional based in upstate New York, points to how audiences in Elizabethan England reacted to Shakespearean plays.
    “You had the people in the pit,” she says. “If they’re unhappy with the performance, they might be throwing some rotted cabbages at the actors.”
    In medieval times, people could be pelted with rotten food while restrained in wooden stocks.
    “If we go way back to Biblical times, they weren’t using food, they were using stones,” Wassberg Johnson says.
    “But food is a weapon that isn’t particularly or necessarily painful or injurious. People like to use it to humiliate rather than injure.”

    From carrots to spaghetti and marshmallows
    People throw food because it is cheap, visible, and easily accessible. But citizens don’t discriminate when it comes to the protest menu…

    But food is not just the means of protest. Its vital nature means fluctuations in its supply have the potential to cause significant social upheaval.
    “Throughout history, food riots have been a common response to food scarcity, or food price increases,” Wassberg Johnson says…

    “Rioting is really the last resort to bring attention to an issue. I think that’s what’s happening with milkshaking and egging as well,” she says.
    “People feel as though they’re not being taken seriously, or listened to, or problems are going unsolved.”
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-27/eggs-milkshakes-and-our-relationship-to-politics/11348870

    note the topics listed for the following:

    18 May: VIDEO: ABC: Man stabbed at polling booth site
    A man has been charged after a Liberal Party volunteer was stabbed with a corkscrew in former prime minister Tony Abbott’s seat of Warringah on Friday night.
    ***Topics: government-and-politics, australia
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-18/man-allegedly-stabbed-at-polling-booth-site/11126156

    21 May: VIDEO: ABC: Nigel Farage furious with his security after milkshake thrown at him
    Brexit Party Leader Nigel Farage has been hit by a milkshake in Newcastle city centre, after a spate of similar incidents against far-right candidates in the European elections campaign.
    ***Topics: world-politics, united-kingdom
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-21/nigel-farage-furious-with-his-security-after-milkshake-thrown/11132542

    9 Apr: VIDEO: ABC: Fraser Anning responds after being egged
    Queensland senator Fraser Anning has an egg smashed on his head while speaking to the media in Melbourne.
    ***Topics: government-and-politics, moorabbin-3189
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-16/senator-fraser-anning-egged/10908814

    NOW LOOK AT THE TOPICS LISTED FOR THE FOLLOWING!

    29 Jul: VIDEO: ABC: Yoghurt tub is hurled at Leigh Sales during WA keynote address
    A 49-year-old man was taken into custody following the incident at the WA State Library.
    ***Topics: assault, law-crime-and-justice, crime, journalism, perth-6000
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-29/yoghurt-tub-is-hurled-at-leigh-sales/11355304

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      pat

      similarly, note the hypocrisy at SMH!

      9 May: SMH: Much ado about an egg – at least it wasn’t a potato, Mr Morrison
      by Tony Wright
      Egging of politicians shouldn’t be encouraged or excused, but everything’s relative: an egging to the noggin barely compares with a potato-ing. Or the end of life as we know it…
      Everything’s relative.

      On the very day the world’s leading scientists had issued a warning that humankind was endangering its own existence and a million other species by abusing the planet, the to-do about a goog on the PM’s scone seemed … well … a bit of an over-egging of the pudding…
      https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/much-ado-about-an-egg-at-least-it-wasn-t-a-potato-mr-morrison-20190508-p51lcg.html

      28 Jul: SMH: Man charged after throwing yoghurt at ABC’s Leigh Sales
      By Laura Chung and Jenny Noyes
      A man has been charged with common assault after a tub of yoghurt was thrown at broadcaster Leigh Sales during her speech at Perth’s Disrupted Festival…
      Perth Police said Sales “took evasive action” after a 49-year-old man threw the yoghurt container at her. They said it hit the stage, splashing some yoghurt on the ABC’s 7:30 host…

      The ***respected journalist, whose book is about how ordinary people deal with grief, had been recounting a traumatic experience when she was attacked…
      As news of the incident spread on social media, many praised Sales for her courage and grace in dealing with the situation…

      The man was charged with common assault and is due to appear in the Perth Magistrates Court on August 27…
      https://www.smh.com.au/national/man-charged-after-throwing-yogurt-at-abc-s-leigh-sales-20190728-p52bjy.html

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    el gordo

    Clive Best illustrates that cooling has begun.

    http://clivebest.com/blog/?p=8973

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    el gordo

    ‘NSW warns it could “go it alone” on energy if Canberra fails to introduce an integrated policy.’ Oz

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    Ragnaar

    CO2 follows temperature historically. Yes. But just because that happened in the past, doesn’t rule out other things. The climate system can be flooded with CO2. CO2 is rising and where is it coming from? The whole Salby line on this is wrong and a losing argument. It’s used to screen out people we don’t need to listen to. It’s right up there with a trace gas. The idea is to win.

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      Bill in Oz

      You are a clever troll Ragnar
      Trolling long after the parade has moved to another issue.
      Hoping to get in a last word were you.
      Sorry mate what you say is crap
      Straight out of the rubbish bin of aerial climate
      Nonscience !

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      tom0mason

      Ragnaar

      You say “CO2 follows temperature historically. Yes. But just because that happened in the past, doesn’t rule out other things.”

      It would appear you BELIEVE that today is different from the past climatically speaking, and that atmospheric CO2 levels mean something climatically. Where is your observed verified scientific evidence for this?

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        Ragnaar

        You say, Verified scientific evidence. That train left the station at least 5 years ago. It’s not coming back. That argument has been lost. It’s pointless to relitigate it.

        The moderates are needed. Or, those here can do it without them. What do you think the case is? What are your chances without the moderates? ‘Verified scientific evidence’ is not convincing the moderates.

        Do I have a point? The economics of it all. And those arguments are made here. And that’s playing to our strengths. It doesn’t require a science degree. Accounting is not that hard.

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      AndyG55

      “The whole Salby line on this is wrong”…

      You have just marked yourself as in the group of “people we don’t need to listen to”

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        Ragnaar

        If someone wants to put themselves on an issue somewhere that’s pointless and doesn’t work, that’s Okay. I am saying, that’s what it is. The question is, What works? We know of some things that don’t work. I am suggesting to strike that argument forever. It’s similar to saying, CO2 doesn’t cause warming because the opposite is true. Warming causes CO2. One can devote their time to such approaches. I think there are better ways to go about things.

        00