JoNova

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What will the carbon tax cost? Bill Shorten says only a lying charlatan would ask.

How much do Australians have to pay to change the global weather?

Snake Oil Salesman, Climate Quack. Bill Shorten.

….

First, Bill Shorten called those who ask  “dumb”. Then when that was described as his Hillary “Deplorables” moment he changed the insult from “dumb” to “liar”.

Here’s Bill Shorten in the third leaders debate:

“I accept the cost question is not a dumb question, …it’s a dishonest question.

The idea that you only look at the investment in new energy without looking at the consequences of not acting on climate change is a charlatans argument, it’s a crooked charlatans argument.”

-Bill Shorten,  May 8th:    iview, 2 mins 30 sec.,

Do you want to discuss the cost benefit ratio of a $500 billion dollar scheme the Labor Party is proposing to stop droughts and hold back the tide? Shorten doesn’t have an answer, instead he claims you shouldn’t even ask the question. You, sir, are a conniving cheat and a liar.

The definition of Charlatan:

charlatan (also called a swindler or mountebank) is a person practicing quackery or some similar confidence trick or deception in order to obtain money, fame or other advantages via some form of pretense or deceptionSynonyms for “charlatan” include “shyster“, “quack”, or “faker”.. – (wikipedia)

Who’s the quack, the faker and the swindler here? The one who is selling a scheme to change the global temperature or the people who want to find out what it will cost?

Welcome to national debate in Australia where the snake-oil salesman weasels out of answering basic questions and the audience and ABC cheers, fooled by the oldest trick in the book. Bill is selling a product “at any cost”. Would you buy health insurance for a million dollars a year? How dare you ask, you stupid liar. You’re not considering the consequences.

It’s all a strawman dodge. Those who ask about the cost have never shied away from discussing the consequences. The cost is one question. The benefit is another. But both get reduced into one meaningless Yes:No “hands-up” moment. Our national debate is nothing more than Quacks selling a cure for the planet.

Are you a good person or a bad one? Bill says: Shut up and give me your vote and your money.

Image:adapted from Library of Congress

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Rating: 9.4/10 (113 votes cast)
What will the carbon tax cost? Bill Shorten says only a lying charlatan would ask. , 9.4 out of 10 based on 113 ratings

136 comments to What will the carbon tax cost? Bill Shorten says only a lying charlatan would ask.

  • #
    AZ1971

    Jo, take refuge in knowing the same thing happens all the time here in the U.S. whenever politicians are asked what some new regulatory proposal will cost us as taxpayers. Oft times, the answer is “But think of the children!” or any variation on the theme that “costs be damned, it’s for the good of the country and thus, worth being implemented.”

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    • #
      Bill in Oz

      Meanwhile VICTORIANS are praying for more more more GLOBAL WARMING !

      And even the Guardian is saying how bad the weather is.
      :-)

      https://www.theguardian.com/weather/2019/may/10/freak-hail-turns-victorian-beaches-white-as-cold-front-crosses-state?fbclid=IwAR1P4xf-egmPyCImorSbSMjrVY7pEAGCQ1BEsz25ut93YqFpbHrKeIn34ek

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      • #
        WXcycles

        And yet we’re being told (for months now) that we’re experiencing a technical CP El Nino.

        http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/oceanography/wrap_ocean_analysis.pl?id=IDYOC007&year=2019&month=05

        When even the faux El Nino’s are cool and wet, the world is clearly coming to an end.

        Flannel shirt weather in NQ this morning, no more warm days until October. So gotta turn-off all the coal-fired power stations or Victorians may need to use their snow-shoes and shovels to clear away all the smelly, slippery green Bill-Shorten droppings on the streets of our endangered temporary civilization (which needs to be made ‘sustainable’), which he (and The Dick) will save us from, but only if we’ll give him total control to do that which we’re clearly incapable of doing ourselves, as only they have the approved facts and corralled wisdom of the sages to be superior blind-guides that lead us into the ditch even sooner.

        A country gets the politicians it deserves.

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        • #
          Bill in Oz

          Seems that the Bureau of Misinformation
          is so attracted to it’s ideology
          that what actually happens
          With weather
          Takes them by surprise.

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          • #
            WXcycles

            To be fair the cold-dry air arrived in NQ on May 13th last year and it does come in the first half of May like that on occasion. This year it was about a week earlier again. But in El Ninos we don’t normally have gigantic floods, lovely cool trade winds, cloudiness, rain squalls, or pre-winter cold blasts from Antarctica. it’s normally exactly the opposite, so I’m calling BS on the weak El-Nino claim if such things are known by what they actually characteristically do.

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            • #
              el gordo

              They are all factoring in a modest El Nino and that seems fairly accurate, which may have something to do with the blocking highs and the collapse of the subtropical ridge.

              With ENSO out of the driver’s seat, cold air outbreaks reaching into the tropics should not be discounted. Its a sign of global cooling.

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    • #
      C. Paul Barreira

      With neither sunset clause to accompany it, nor subsequent (and obligatory) assessment of the effects of the legislation or expenditure. And democratic publics accept this nonsense ad infinitum.

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  • #
    Lance

    Never trust anyone who pays no personal price for being wrong.

    Shorten is more than willing to spend “other people’s money” at the altar of his politics and beliefs.

    Just a bold power grab he’s hoping the sheeple will fall for.

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    • #
      Yonniestone

      Karl Marx who’s writings initiated this evil mess never had to worry about working or money his entire life, even in his latter years in London his income was supported financially by Engels, and yet the bastard had the front to claim empathy for his fellow workers.

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        • #
          WXcycles

          There’s nothing in your link about what Marx did for a crust. I think you’ll find Marx was a privileged slacker with too much time on his hands addicted to making excuses to rant about workers and employers, i.e. anti private enterprise (which makes so much sense if you wanted to ensure the workers can never escape from being mere employees of a government with no other options).

          If you want to see how well Marx’s ideas worked with regard to central Govt owned and operated transportion and infrastructure management to best-serve the ‘workers’ needs in utopia, just try catching a train or bus in southeast Queensland, during the schnozzle plebachook/trad government’s over-taxing stagnant ice-driven crime-spree-infested propaganda-battered State of do-nothingness which they preside over.

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          • #
            el gordo

            ‘Marx was a privileged slacker…’

            It seems so, married well and later met Engels.

            ‘He was heavily supported by his friend, Friedrich Engels. Engels worked as an administrator at the Ermine and Engels cotton mill in Manchester, and he was a son of one of the proprietors, as well as a shareholder. He was never poor and gave away lots of his money to support Marx’s family (wife and three daughters). Many say he pilfered heavily from the accounts of the company to help Marx and he also ghost-wrote many of the articles on current affairs that Marx ‘wrote’ for money.

            ‘Marx’s wife was Jenny von Westphalen, a German aristocrat. She had relatives who helped at various points, as did members of his own family. Marx never held down a regular job.’

            Richard Mullin, PhD

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      • #
        el gordo

        We cannot blame JC for the carnage done in his name, anymore than we can condemn Marx for the ‘dictatorship of the proletariat’.

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        • #
          Yonniestone

          The Bolshevik Revolution of 1917 was founded on interpretations of Marx’s ideas (from your BBC link)

          He might have wanted obscurity but his writing said otherwise, and never compare the word of JC to a nasty self serving commo grub like Marx.

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          • #
            el gordo

            They interpreted the Manifesto to meet their own needs at the time, in the same way Christians have fought amongst themselves over Biblical interpretations.

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  • #
    reformed warmist of logan

    Good morning Jo,
    ‘Tis a sad day in the Great Southern Land Today! :(
    We’re all looking down the barrel of an end to the almost-30 year run which the Australian economy has enjoyed since the early 90′s! (“The recession we had to have!)
    I was discussing the (limited) merits of Peter Beattie the other day with an opposing pre-poller in Browns Plains, and that reminded me of one of the basic facts! …
    “When is the last time the Australian People gave a Labor P.M. a 2nd election win?
    1990!!
    Yes that’s right, 1990!!
    So even if Mr B.S. does win in eight days – which I hope not to be the case – There’s a fairly high to extremely high chance that he’ll be kicked out in 2022!!
    (And thanks to another “Crap-spin-miester” Kevin’s changes, he can’t be replaced by Tanya or Kristina 3-6 months before the next election.)
    That is of course, unless Australia has its first revolution since the Eureka Stockade in the meantime.
    The combination of Labor’s: Super, -ve Gearing & “There’s no limit” energy policies, a recession/depression, then a coup/revolution is almost inevitable.
    This country can’t afford another Labor experiment in 2019!!
    Warm regards,
    Reformed Warmist of Logan

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    • #
      RickWill

      Probably a good time for a Labor government. The rising cost of energy is a brake on the entire economy and I agree a recession is on the horizon.

      There remains a widely held view that more intermittent generators connected to the grid will one day lower electricity prices. After all their fuel cost is zero. I do not know when the obvious to a few becomes obvious to the many. However accelerating the rate of increase in intermittent capacity should make the obvious obvious sooner.

      I cannot imagine Bill or any Labor MP ever saying they were wrong because they are zealots aiming to spend others money to alter the weather. As you point out, that condemns them to a single term.

      If Abbott can make it through this election, he might come back smarter and leading a party that has a better understanding of how the RET is killing the economy. I believe he understands that cannot articulate why and there is little point in trying to convince a religious zealot on any topic that differs with their religious view.

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      • #
        yarpos

        Nice summary Rick. Not so hopeful that the real nature of renewables will ever dawn on the populace. I guess it doesnt matter as long as its a decent majority. You have seen , and continue to see in SA and VIC, the finger pointing and obfuscation that goes on as the wheels come off. It can never be that renewables arent fit for purpose in a first world grid, it will always be something else or the classic “perfect storm” of events that causes issues.

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      • #
        Cookster

        It is definitely NOT a good time for a Labor government. Anyhow this isn’t Labor it is extreme leftism and the watermelons will be calling the shots. Don’t do it Australia!

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  • #
    Sean

    First rule of sales, someone whose interested in buying what your selling asks how much. Those who are just looking, don’t care about price. In other works if he’s interesting in changing the mind of people on the fence, he likely did…but not the way he intended.

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  • #
    Harry Passfield

    Quite right, Jo. In order to change the ‘climate’ these hucksters need to control the weather (Ref: IPCC – climate = 30 years’ of weather).

    Let’s nail ‘climate-changers’ and describe them for what they are: weather-controllers. Modern day Shamen. Rain-dancers.

    But they’ve got to do it – and show a result – for 30 years.

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    • #
      Latus Dextro

      Sorry Harry, ‘they’ don’t have to show any results. The UNFCCC definition of “climate change” is predicated on direct and indirect anthropogenic influences on atmospheric composition and land usage. UN ‘climate change’ ™ can only be zeroed if all humans are expunged from Gaia. Failing that, it provides an unending justification to interfere, manipulate, control and regulate the lives of people and populations, precisely the goal of these globalist political charlatan and their ideological henchmen bureaucrats.

      It is little different from the mantra of occupational health and safety, for your own good, also peddled by the UN 2030 “transformational” agenda. The precautionary principle is invoked on the most incidental of speculations over the potential identification of a hazard, justifying infinite interfering minimisation, elimination. Ultimately the only solution can only be no risk = no people in the workplace. Ideology trumps cost/benefit.

      The nauseating joy exhibited by those with that snippet of power sufficient to lord it over the rest in pecksniffian hegemony is as repulsive as history has shown it to be dangerous and eventually, murderous. They betray themselves as they fail to rejoice at any putative change that disproves their alarmism (the absence of statistically significant warming since 1998), or global greening for example, as in reality we all know it is about their control, which they deeply fear they may lose.

      They will, and soon.

      The Left always project. They reliably reveal their motives and ideological bankruptcy.

      The idea that you only look at the investment in new energy without looking at the consequences of not acting on climate change is a charlatans argument, it’s a crooked charlatans argument.”

      Shorten is the charlatan. He told you so himself. He ignores and fears the truth, for that only leads to a political wilderness of dismissed globalist ideology and powerlessness. He realises that not acting on UN “climate change”™ not only has no meaningful consequences, but that the extravagantly wasteful spending on unreliable intermittents is a short road to economic ruination. And he also knows that his policies will not lead to prosperity, population growth and the creation of wealth (with which to also care for the environment). They are in fact designed to implement de-industrialisation, de-population and destitution. They are The Green Death.

      It is as transparent as it would have been had he been waving a gun in your face, which I vouch you would have considered intolerable. This is no different.

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      • #
        robert rosicka

        First nice warm day in summer they will say see we fixed it and first nice gentle rain of winter they will say see we fixed it but anything else they will say see we have more work to do .

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  • #
    Ian Wilson

    Sorry but this is off-topic: Here is my latest blog post – you might find it interesting. It questions the very nature of what controls the climate on decadal time scales.

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  • #
    Ian Wilson

    Sorry, it is almost dawn and my brain is drifting off to sleep. Here is the link:

    https://astroclimateconnection.blogspot.com/2019/05/rhetorical-question-do-you-think-that.html

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    • #
      el gordo

      As you have moved to the Atlantic we could discuss the relevance of the 60 year cycle.

      https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/04/26/the-60-year-oscillation-revisited/

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      • #
        Ian Wilson

        el gordo,

        The people over at WUWT do there level best to ignore my research. That said – Javier cliams that:

        “Prior to that, in 2011, Clive Best explored in an article in his blog the possibility that the 60-year oscillation was produced by the combined effect of both the solar variability and the tidal variability: A 60-year oscillation in Global Temperature data and possible explanations.

        Alas, he couldn’t find convincing evidence:

        “There is no single astronomical effect which can explain the 60-year time period. I have looked into the possibility that a superposition of both the 11-year solar variability and the 18.6-year lunar tide could produce the observed 60-year oscillation. There is no convincing evidence that this is the case.”

        ********************

        If you read the paper by Nikolay Sidorenkov and me you will find that there is a natural 59.75-year (~ 60-year) tidal cycle.
        If you look at when the 31/62/93/186-year Perigean New/Full Cycle precisely aligns with the seasons in a frame of reference that
        is rotating with the 25,700-year precession of the Earth’s rotation axis you find a 59.75-year cycle that precisely repeats over
        periods greater than 500 years [This is confirmed by ephemeris data for the Earth-Moon system].

        Javier also points out the ubiquity of the 4.5-year period in the data which is just half the lunar tidal 9.1 year period.

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      • #
        Ian Wilson

        el gordo,

        Given the link to the 8.85/9.1 year lunar tidal cycles, what the Brandt et al. (2011) paper is telling us is that:

        a) The Moon is continuously producing semi-monthly pulses of (easterly moving) Equatorial Kelvin waves and (westerly moving) Equatorial Rossby waves that are rushing across the equatorial Atlantic Ocean.

        b) These produce the high baroclinic [Atlantic] basin [oscillation] modes. This can be thought of as a slow resonant sloshing motion of the surface waters of the equatorial Atlantic which is constrained by the coasts of western South America and eastern equatorial Africa.

        c) These, in turn, are driving the 4.5-year cycle in the upwelling of energy from the depths of the equatorial Atlantic Ocean.

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        • #
          David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

          G’day Ian,
          Thanks for the posts above. But I do find your description of the “western coast of South America” and the “eastern coast of equatorial Africa” confusing, as I would have thought those labels would put them facing the Pacific and Indian oceans respectively.
          Cheers
          Dave B

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          • #
            Ian Wilson

            David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz,

            At six in the morning, after writing a for about 8 hours my brain was mush. Clearly east and west needs to be reversed. Thanks for pointing out this dumb error.

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        • #
          el gordo

          Ian very few understand your workings, but don’t be discouraged.

          Where does the AMO fit into your lunar hypothesis?

          https://app.box.com/s/8i8yjzv2s741xg9jg8hgk29v1u3za0ss

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        • #
          Ian Wilson

          Here is the key conclusion of Brandt at al. (2011)

          “We propose that the variability in the equatorial zonal surface flow is not due to wind forcing with the same period but rather is a mode internal to the ocean, with its origin in the abyss (perhaps as deep as several thousand metres). If this is indeed the case, then the observed atmospheric variability in the 4–5-yr period band in the equatorial Atlantic can be interpreted as a consequence of internal ocean dynamics.”

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  • #
    Ian Wilson

    If Bill Shorten knew about this result, he wouldn’t spend a penny on trying to prevent catastrophic global warming.

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  • #
    Tdef

    It’s the new approach. Global warming isn’t happening. It’s not even mentioned. There is no accusation of denier. Debate is not allowed. Science is irrelevant.

    Simply you are a lying thieving charlatan if you question the Climate catastrophe unfolding. We have ten years to Armageddon. Anyone who dates question the motives behind the hundreds of billions going oversead is a crook.

    And Captain James Cook was a criminal mysogynist invadet and white oppressor. Also Venezuela’s Maduro is a hero. Ask Bill.

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  • #
    Another Ian

    “But facts don’t matter to climate alarmists. All they need is a good appeal to authority to shut their brain down.”

    https://realclimatescience.com/2019/05/hottest-may-ever/#comments

    I guess if you insist on using “hottened data” you need more carbon tax?

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  • #
    TdeF

    It’s interesting in the US. Trump is not reacting. The looney left are getting crazier by the day. Free University. Hollywood companies boycotting Georgia over abortion laws. Occasional Cortex and friends. Open borders are good for you. Asylum cities are going broke. Meanwhile Trump is going from strength to strength while Pelosi says he is self impeaching. No one even understands what the Democrats are saying as what they are hearing is just nonsense.

    In Austrlia, the left have no coal power stations, electric cars for everyone, giant batteries, death duties, no negative gearing and billions in carbon taxes except they are called credits. And the Liberals and Nationals are saying nothing.

    The left are so sure of victory that only a Russian conspiracy could explain it if they lose. And everyone thinks Bill Shorten is a lovely family man who cares and is right on top of the dreaded Climate Change.

    The election could be a real surprise. The millenials want to inherit from their baby boomer parents. They also want the rental houses. And nice cars not ridiculous battery cars. Perhaps Morrison is just letting him say the crazy stuff. It’s a good strategy and seems to be working. Climate Criminals. Us.

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    • #
      TdeF

      As Napoleon said, never interrupt your enemy while his is making mistakes. What Bill is saying is nonsense, telling people that massive carbon taxes are good for the planet and a social obligation. Who actually believes that?

      Besides if 350,000 giant windmills have done nothing to reduce CO2, even CO2 growth, why would another 350,000 giant windmills make any difference? Or are we now paying people not to cut down trees? And who polices that? All nonsense talk that would make the total destruction of Venezuela look like a picnic. Total economic and social and even health ruin in the name of Socialism.

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    • #
      Another Ian

      For a refresher course.

      A bit of “Bill reading” working down the recent threads here. Start at the second one.

      https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/

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      • #
        Annie

        I like the one about the Twickenham pirates! British servicemen with courage and gumption and a good sense of humour.
        Saw some of the BS ones earlier.

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    • #
      Latus Dextro

      The left are so sure of victory that only a Russian conspiracy could explain it if they lose.

      Secular socialist globalists and virtue signalling corporatists, birds of a feather. The centrist parties Left and Right are being displaced by the new wave of populism sweeping the World.

      The Australian taxpayer shovelled at least $88 million into the Clinton Foundation and associated entities from 2006 to 2014, reaching a peak of $10.3 million in 2012-13, Gillard’s last year in office. Herald Sun

      The Austrailan (pay walled):
      EXCLUSIVE During the past 10 years Australian governments of both political persuasions have paid more than $75 million to arms of the Bill, Hillary and Chelsea Clinton Foundation which are now mired in controversy.

      Alexander Downer: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
      “American and allied intelligence services set out to destroy a Trump presidency before it even started. An energy policy consultant working for the insurgent campaign, Papadopoulos encountered a rogues’ gallery of infamous figures employed by agents from the US, Britain, and Australia. Here, he gives the play-by-play of how operatives like Professor Joseph Mifsud, Sergei Millian, Alexander Downer [liberal globalist], and Stefan Halper worked to invent a Russian conspiracy that would irreparably damage the Trump administration.”

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      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        Yes indeed, LD.

        The Will of the People has been redefined by your “Secular socialist globalists and virtue signalling corporatists” as Populism – a pejorative term specifically used to subvert the power of the vote in a democratic Capitalist economy and to denigrate those who look to the national interest over the international.

        It aligns with Christiana Figueres’ intention to use the Global Warming fabrication to change the world economic order:

        “This is the first time in the history of mankind that we are setting ourselves the task of intentionally, within a defined period of time, to change the economic development model that has been reigning for at least 150 years, since the Industrial Revolution,……….This is probably the most difficult task we have ever given ourselves, which is to intentionally transform the economic development model for the first time in human history.”

        It should come as no surprise that Figueres is being rolled out in the current election campaign by those who seek to destroy the Australian economy. One of the international socialist charlatans adored by the socialist green left.

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    • #
      Yonniestone

      Its an interesting idea, the biggest hitch though is the huge outside influences from globalism that can and is affecting our entire political system, the only way to change this is either for us to get a true patriot in power to put Australia first or if by chance Morrison wins the people pressure him to do likewise.

      An LNP victory gives us a chance to head Australia in the right direction, but as has been stated here often the only way is to have disaster occur for the people to wake up.

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  • #
    pattoh

    “The idea that you only look at the investment in new energy without looking at the consequences” without questioning the motivesis precisely what we the suffering consumers & electorate of government are expected to do !

    Turkeys voting for Christmas

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  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    It’s the global warming pimple that is about to pop.

    The cost of inaction is quantifiable, though you sound insane:

    UN chief says ‘total disaster’ if warming not stopped

    https://apnews.com/5771645c622d4717bffc3e33fbc20df9?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axiosgenerate&stream=top

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  • #
    Ruairi

    Beware of alarmists who tout,
    For billions on climate-change drought,
    Who would call you denier,
    And a charlatan liar,
    If their wasteful daft scheming you doubt.

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  • #
    Another Ian

    “What will the carbon tax cost? Bill Shorten says only a lying charlatan would ask.”

    So when Bill buys a car (or anything else) he doesn’t ask “How much” or haggle?

    Must only use com-cars then?

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  • #
    PeterS

    Snake oil “salesmen” like Shorten are a plenty. What really surprises me is how many Australians fall for him and other previous recent ALP leaders like Rudd and Gillard. It’s a really sad indictment of the level of awareness by Australians. In reality support for the ALP should be around 10% by now if people were even half as aware as they ought to be. The way things are going Australia is destined for a crash and burn unless more people wake up.

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    • #
      PeterW

      We have a generation that has never experienced serious privation, suffering or existential threat.

      Having never experienced significant adverse consequences, they imagine that they can do whatever they want because consequences- and paying for them – are something that happen to “other people”.

      When they hit the wall, the reaction will be divided between anger and blaming those who misled them…… and anger and blaming those who warned them.

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      • #
        yarpos

        Isnt that what this is about? the current generation think they do have an existential threat, even if it is just made up.

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        • #
          PeterS

          Yes an imaginary threat can be just as dangerous as a real one to a certain group of people. When we crash and burn the cycle will turn (again) and things will get better. Until then…..

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  • #
    Serge Wright

    The only “dumb” or “dishonst” comments in this debate are coming from Shorten. If you examine the facts, they paint a very different picture to the one Shorten would have you believe.

    Noting we emit around 1% of global CO2 and therefore are responsible for ~1% of CC (assuming it’s real). If we don’t act on CC we spend absolutely no money and suffer no cost, but we have to contend with 100% of CC. If we do act on CC as per the Shorten policy, then it will cost us more than half a trillion dollars, but we still have to contend with at least 99% of the effects of CC. Would any of us notice this tiny 1% difference to our climate ?

    What Shorten is effectively saying is this:
    - dealing with 100% of CC, is bad
    - dealing with 99% of CC + losing half a trillion dollars +++, is much better and will secure our future

    It’s obvious that Shorten isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed, but seriously !!!. This is a completely irrational belief, proving he’s not just dumb, he a complete fool that should never be left in change of a sewage pumping station, let alone our economy.

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    • #
      theRealUniverse

      1% of global CO2 = 1% of the 4% TOTAL global human emission, thats a REALLY small number. Tell Mr BS hes costing trillions of taxpayers money for a few molecules.

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  • #
    Maptram

    I read somewhere that Shorten believes that the cost of climate change is the cost to repair the damage caused when climate change caused events like cyclones, floods and droughts occur and the any money spent on reducing CO2 emissions will stop climate change and therefore stop such events and the cost of repair.

    So the question required is how much money will be spent in stopping climate change and how much of that will be spent by a Shorten Government.

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    • #
      Another Ian

      Just curious as to which sea god he will try and get to cough up for damages from off shore cyclones etc that originate outside of Australian territorial waters?

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      • #
        AndyG55

        That’s why the “carbon tax”.

        It will send BILLIONS of dollars overseas to buy worthless carbon credits.

        I’m sure the people getting those funds will use then to reimburse those who suffer from natural climate disasters.

        I’m REALLY TRULY SURE. Yes I am ;-)

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    • #
      Lance

      Whatever “cost of climate change” actually materializes will be managed by Insurers, not Politicians like Shorten. He’s just a fear monger and opportunist.

      It is the Insurance Companies who pay to repair damages caused by whatever causes such as floods, hurricanes, etc.

      That is why one watches insurance premium costs, and the justification for cost increases, quite closely.

      Insurers and Re-Insurers have “skin in the game” as well as an eye to profits. Price the plans too high, and no one buys them, price them too low and the company suffers.

      Enter Stage Left: Climate Change. Offering a justification for premium increases and enormous profits. On the other hand, many will not pay exorbitant rates and the insurers run the risk of major losses because of low participation rates.

      It is a matter of risk management on both sides, but the profiteers will attempt a short term runup in fees if they think they can get them.

      Mitigating risk, cost, and inconvenience is what the buyer of insurance does. Mitigating losses from insured events is what insurers do. Mitigating and manipulating profits, power, and contributions, is what Politicians do.

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  • #
    R.B.

    Pretty sure that Labor harassed Bjorn Lomberg from actual looking at the cost of 4°C rise in temperatures. If charlatan is someone who ignores it, what do you call someone who bans you from lookingvat it?

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    Bill in Oz

    Meanwhile here is a real scientific discussion of what drives the climate
    And why it changes
    It’s the Sun stupid !
    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/05/09/svensmarks-force-majeure-the-suns-large-role-in-climate-change/

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      theRealUniverse

      “The study shows that throughout history and now, the sun plays a powerful role in climate change. ” even that is erroneous..should read the sun totally controls climate change. Too much emphasis on extra galactic cosmic rays.

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    Another Ian

    Indirect support for Bill

    “Comparison of global climatologies confirms warming of the global ocean”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/05/10/comparison-of-global-climatologies-confirms-warming-of-the-global-ocean/

    Or not, if you read the comments

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    pat

    Bill can say anything he likes on theirABC:

    10 May: ABC Science: Solar energy is on the rise, as coal-fired power stations age and gas prices rise — but is the grid ready?
    ABC Science By Nadine Cranenburgh
    Renewable options are inevitable…
    “You could put another power station where Hazelwood is — but couldn’t feed it, as there’s no coal left,” (Grahame Holmes, a smart energy systems researcher at RMIT University) said…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2019-05-10/solar-energy-power-grid-renewables-policy/11088002

    EarthResources Vic Govt: Coal
    Victoria boasts a 430-billion tonne brown coal reserve which is a huge portion of the world’s coal resources…
    Victoria’s brown coal is typically low in ash, sulphur, heavy metals and nitrogen. This makes it very low in impurities by world standards…
    Brown coal reserves
    • Total estimated in situ brown coal in Victoria – 430 billion tonnes
    • Measured brown coal in the Latrobe Valley – 65 billion tonnes
    • Potentially economic brown coal in the Latrobe Valley – 33 billion tonnes
    Within Gippsland, the Latrobe Valley has an estimated measured resource of close to 65 billion tonnes which equals 25 per cent of the world’s known brown coal reserves. Approximately half of the valley’s brown coal is ‘potentially economic’…
    https://earthresources.vic.gov.au/geology-exploration/coal

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      robert rosicka

      Hazelwood wasn’t closed because it ran out of coal , neither was the power station at Port Augusta .
      Although Port Augusta was being supplied from Leigh creek .
      Pat it’s the same lie as everyone is getting out of coal .

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    el gordo

    Good strategy by Melissa Price.

    “It’s not just that [Price] is silent. I think the deeper problem for her and the Liberals is that they have absolutely nothing to say.”

    Lyndon Schneiders

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    robert rosicka

    Just watching the ABC and they were interviewing an indigenous man from WA about solar panels for the local communities so they could have cheap reliable power .
    The ABC shill mentioned they would need back up for the couple of days a year that there were storms or clouds and yes they both agreed that diesel would fix that on those couple of days .
    No mention about nighttime or the other 16 hours of the day .

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      WXcycles

      Just burn the trees, they’re renewable. It’s not as evil as burning coal or diesel. Alternatively, stop being childish and pretending coal is evil, and leave the trees to the goannas and Kookaburras. but 12 years we’ll all be gone anyway, ’cause Chyna. I’m not buying that AOC time-line to doom, she’s overlooked some pretty obvious solutions. You don’t need to get rid of the cows and BBQ at all, you just need to attach a polythene pipe securely to their blunter end, and you get grass-in the moo-end and sustainable renewable electrickery out of the ‘brrrrrtt’ end. AOC sees disaster, I see opportunity!

      There’s at least another hundy-years of prosperity and high-living right there!

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    pat

    on ABC AM this morning, they were concerned about Facebook election “truth in advertising, fake news blah blah! lol.

    theirABC’s quiz, where majority of voters of all ages ranked the environment as their biggest concern in the election! this was decided by VoteCompass/VoxPopLabs:

    ABC: 10 May: ABC: A quick quiz to test whether you know what millennials/gen Xers/boomers think
    We have analysed Australians’ responses to ***Vote Compass to understand the differences in views across age groups.
    Question 1: How much should the federal government do to tackle climate change?
    Answer: Voters ranked the environment as their biggest concern in this election, and young voters have the strongest view about doing more on climate change.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-10/election-2019-vote-compass-quiz-age/11087550

    Dec 2013: Uni of Melbourne: Vote Compass
    It is being used for the first time in Australia during the 2013 election campaign and has drawn almost 500,000 responses in its first three days. Vote Compass is a tool developed by political scientists at the University of Toronto in partnership with the Melbourne School of Government, the University of Sydney and the ABC…
    Dr Aaron Martin and ***Nicholas Reece from the Melbourne School of Government have been heavily involved in the development of Vote Compass for Australia. Vote Compass is an independent, non-profit and non-partisan organisation…

    Uni of Melbourne: Nicholas Reece, Principal Fellow, Melbourne School of Government
    Director of Strategy, Policy and Projects, The University of Melbourne
    Nick has considerable of experience in both politics and policy making at the highest levels of government including for Prime Minister Julia Gillard and Victorian Premiers Steve Bracks and John Brumby. Key roles during this period include Deputy Chief of Staff, Head of Policy, and Director of Strategy. He was also Secretary and Campaign Director of the Australian Labor Party in Victoria…

    LinkedIn: Nicholas Reece, Executive Uni of Melbourne, Councillor CoM, Anchor Sky News, Columnist, Mo Bro
    Councillor – Chair of Planning, ***Deputy Chair Environment
    City of Melbourne
    November 2016 – Present…

    behind paywall:

    2016: Crikey: Vote Compass complete bunkum
    The ABC’s Vote Compass is self-selected polling, and therefore meaningless. But the outlet continues to pretend its unscientific poll is news.
    Vote Compass results often lead ABC news bulletins, and the national broadcaster makes much of its online poll results…

    29 Nov 2017: CanadaLandShow: The Mystery Of The Missing Canada 150 Project
    The creators of the widely mocked MyDemocracy.ca got a $576,500 grant for a survey on Canadian values. It’s still nowhere to be found.
    By Graeme Gordon
    Back in the spring, Vox Pop Labs — a public opinion research company best known for its Vote Compass and widely derided MyDemocracy.ca surveys — was supposed to launch a Canada 150 “signature project” called Project Tessera with the CBC. In June, Vox Pop’s CEO told media the survey was being redesigned and would be released some time in the fall. Two weeks ago, a CBC representative told CANADALAND that the project, which the Trudeau government had funded with a $576,500 grant, would be online this past Monday.
    It is still nowhere to be found…

    29 Jun 2018: CBC: Doug Ford scores low on ability to keep promises, post-election survey suggests
    Team behind Vote Compass surveys 20,000 Ontarians on their post-election reflections
    by Lisa Xing
    Vox Pop asked Ontarians about their perceptions of how well the leaders would keep their campaign promises. They were asked to rate each leader on a scale from 0 to 10, where 0 means “not capable at all” and 10 means “very capable.”
    Doug Ford scored the lowest, with an average of 3.3, while Andrea Horwath scored the highest at 5.6. Kathleen Wynne got an average of 4.9, while Mike Schreiner came in at 4.2…

    ABC SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN.

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      pat

      ABC in April:

      18 Apr: Facebook: Australian Greens
      ABC’s vote compass shows the environment is the most important issue in this election.
      When the new Parliament is formed, voters will expect politicians to work together and deliver the strongest possible climate action.
      In 2011, the Greens worked with the Gillard Government and the cross-bench to deliver world-leading climate reforms, that were wrecked by Tony Abbott and the Coalition’s climate deniers.
      This is the climate election, and we need bold, ambitious climate action in the new parliament…
      LINK Guardian:
      Richard Di Natale: Labor should come to negotiating table on climate policy
      Greens leader has some clear expectations of Bill Shorten, particularly on climate change and blocking the Adani coalmine
      by Katharine Murphy
      https://www.facebook.com/Australian.Greens/posts/10156233381693663

      23 Apr: RenewEconomy: Support for action surges, as majority say we face climate emergency
      by David Spratt
      (David Spratt is Research Director for Breakthrough National Centre for Climate Restoration)
      In the first-ever poll of its kind, new research from The Australia Institute (TAI) has found that a clear majority of Australians agree the nation ‘is facing a climate emergency’ requiring emergency action and that, in response, governments should “mobilise all of society” like they did during the world wars…
      ***It was released as the ABC’s Vote Compass found that the environment (including climate change) is rated as the number one issue by 29 per cent of respondents in this federal election, a “massive shift” from just 9 per cent in 2016. The environment was nominated as the top concern among undecided voters.
      Growing public concern about climate issues was also picked up in the annual Lowy Institute Poll on Australian attitudes released in June 2018, and in the TAI 2018 Climate of the Nation report…
      https://reneweconomy.com.au/support-for-action-surges-as-majority-say-we-face-climate-emergency-47072/

      on jo’s previous thread – “More renewables…” theRealUniverse wrote:

      “Just saw a sign down the road..”this is a climate election” “I am a climate voter” or something like that” etc…

      Australian Conservation Foundation: The climate election
      This is the climate election. Be a climate voter
      It’s here, now, harming the people we love. Fuelling reef bleaching, bushfires, heatwaves and drought. And it’s getting worse…
      If you want my vote, you must: Stop Adani’s polluting mine, end digging and burning coal, and switch to 100% clean energy…
      Authorised by Kelly O’Shanassy, ACF
      sign on: 95,183 people
      14,817 needed to reach 110,000
      https://www.acf.org.au/vote_climate_fb

      one big happy CAGW family.

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        pat

        an earlier example:

        June 2014: HotTopicNZ: Climate Voter: new campaign to put climate on NZ election agenda
        AD: MAKE YOUR VOTE COUNT IN BIGGEST CHALLENGE OF OUR TIME – CLIMATE VOTER
        A non-partisan campaign to put action on climate change at the centre of the coming election campaign was launched at the weekend (NZ Herald, RNZ). Climate Voter, a joint initiative by Forest & Bird, Generation Zero, 350 Aoteoroa, Greenpeace, Oxfam and WWF, is using social media to drive the campaign, and will host a debate on climate policy between the leaders of the top six polling parties in September. At the time of writing over 10,000 people had signed up to the campaign — including me
        http://hot-topic.co.nz/climate-voter-new-campaign-to-put-climate-on-nz-election-agenda/

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      PeterFitzroy

      First they came for the ABC, we don’t know what happened next

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        AndyG55

        If we keep the ABC,

        we won’t know the truth about what happened in the past,

        we only get LIES about what is happening now,

        and what the ABC says will happen next, is pure fiction anyway

        We know NOTHING REAL by keeping the ABC.

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        James Murphy

        I can’t speak for others, but the problem I have with the ABC is that it is extremely biased, and taxpayer funded. It can be one, or the other, but not both together. A 100% objective ABC (or any media outlet) is unrealistic, but it has long since stopped pretending to make any effort at all in this regard.

        I don’t seek to silence opinions I disagree with, I just don’t see why taxpayers should foot the bill to receive only one political perspective. I’d be equally annoyed if they were as biased towards the right.

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      George4

      Shorten has promised a $60 million funding boost for ABC and SBS.

      Payment for the propaganda unit of the left wing.

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        WXcycles

        Why is it that any politician can even offer money to a thoroughly biased state-media mouthpiece within an election campaign to obviously and corruptly buy votes?

        Why is it that politicians are even permitted to promise to alter the funding of the ABC in this way and to simply buy taxpayer-funded media bias?

        Checks and balances? Wot on Earth are those?

        Blank ‘cheques’ and tax funded bank-’balances’, enabling corruption and bias, apparently.

        Don’t worry, I believe I believe, what Ita tells me to!


        Cold Chisel – Ita

        Every night when I go home
        I settle down to prime-time limbo
        When all the boys are gathered around
        Shoutin’ “Ita’s on TV”
        And though the roaches are thick on the ground
        Somebody goes to close our window
        Keep the noise of the city down
        Get a dose of integrity

        Every week, in every home
        She’s got wholesome news for the family
        I believe, I believe, in what she says
        Yes I do

        I believe, I believe, at the end of the day
        Her magazine ‘ll get me through

        Ita’s tongue never touches her lips
        She could always be my godmother
        And though the desktop hides her hips
        My imagination’s strong
        She’s the sweetest thing I’ve ever seen
        I’d like to take her out to dinner
        But when I think about the places I’ve been
        I’d probably hold my fork all wrong

        Every day and every night
        She’s the only one we can depend upon

        I believe, I believe, in what she says
        Yes I do
        I believe, I believe, at the end of the day
        Her magazine ‘ll get me through

        To every housewife through the land
        There is no-one else they can depend upon
        How could I not believe what Ita tells me to

        Every day and every night
        She’s the only one we can depend upon
        How could I not believe what Ita tells me to
        How could I not believe what Ita tells me to
        How could I not believe what Ita tells me to
        How could I not believe what Ita tells me to

        Yes it’s true, what Ita tells me to

        ‘Ita’ by Cold Chisel
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37Qsqd8mw9o

        Anything you say Ita, there’s no way the ABC is an out of control left-wing cesspit of one-eyed rank propagandists and deceivers inimical the Australian public interest.

        For the non-aussies, the song is about a woman called “Ita Buttrose”, who was recently appointed head of the ABC, and who seems to think there’s nothing much wrong with it’s obnoxious deceitful behavior and illegal political biasing of a taxpayer-funded national broadcaster. The song writer Don Walker, and singer Jimmy Barns were quite a prophet-poet combo.

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          WXcycles

          Reprise:

          Best Kept Lies
          – Cold Chisel
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUK32Oof-8g

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          Kinky Keith

          Getting right to the point.

          VD.

          Very disheartening.

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          John

          The Coalition has only itself to blame for allowing the ABC to broadcast political propaganda using your money when it could have forced it to earn its keep decades ago. The simple fact is no-one on the conservative side of politics has had the balls to take it on. I can assure you, had the bias been the other way around, a tax funded ABC would not exist.

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        Ross

        The irony is Shorten and his Green mates want to effectively close down the coal industry and many others will follow because they are associated with coal or energy cost increases will make them uneconomic. If they do and the Government lose all those tax dollars where does the money come from to prop up the largess of the ABC etc ?

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    Paul Miskelly

    Hi Jo and All,
    Very well said, Jo.

    Should you not have already seen this video of a recent presentation to the GWPF in London, UK, by Derek Birkett, it would be worth a look. Here’s the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1298N4WXyZI

    What Mr Birkett shows, neatly in my view, is that if one adds, say, 5000 MW of wind generation capacity to a grid, then one has to add 5000 MW of dispatchable plant as well, that is, in addition to that dispatchable plant that is already connected and operational.
    The reality in places such as the UK, as he indicates in the talk, is that this additional dispatchable plant must be coal-fired. Telling you all what you know: the same scenario applies even more so here in Australia, where one possible option available in the UK, nuclear power, is banned.

    Note that Mr Birkett is saying, uncompromisingly, that if this additional plant is not provided, then, at some point, as installed wind capacity increases, then grid collapse, on those frequent occasions when total wind output collapses, is inevitable. But try telling that to Electricity Bill and his mates.

    And note that Mr Birkett doesn’t mention climate change even once! This is merely a very experienced grid control engineer forcing us to face reality. The facts are clear: if Shorten gets in and starts closing our coal-fired power stations, then life will become very grim very quickly.

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    pat

    10 May: EV Wind Spain: Collapse in wind energy jeopardises German renewables targets
    The growth of onshore wind power is collapsing in Germany, jeopardising both German and EU renewables targets. Germany installed just 134 MW of new onshore wind farms in the first quarter of 2019 – the country’s worst first quarter for onshore wind turbines installations since 2000…
    Germany is likely to install a total of just 1-2 GW of onshore wind this year. This is significantly down on the past five years when Germany installed an average of 4.3 GW per year. This is well below what Germany needs to meet its own 65% renewable electricity target by 2030 and to deliver its share of the EU’s 32% renewable energy target…
    WindEurope CEO Giles Dickson said: “Onshore wind energy in Germany is in deep trouble. The development of new wind farms has almost ground to a halt. The main problem is permitting – it’s got much slower, more complex and there aren’t enough civil servants to process the applications…
    https://www.evwind.es/2019/05/10/collapse-in-wind-energy-growth-jeopardises-german-and-eu-renewables-targets/67117

    10 May: RenewablesNow: WindEurope says slump in German wind installs due to permitting issues
    The impact of this will be felt by the industry too, as in the first quarter of 2019 there have been zero turbine orders in Germany, Dickson added…
    Deployment is also down because of the failed auction systems in 2017 when community projects were allowed to compete without a permit. The winning projects got a lot of time to finish installation and many of the parks are yet to be built. This mistake has been fixed in the auctions that followed…
    “There’s plenty of space available for new wind farms in Germany. And they can build them in industrial sites like the Dutch do or alongside motorways like in France and Belgium. Repowering the early wind farms that are coming to the end of their life will also help,” WindEurope’s CEO added.

    10 May: RechargeNews: ‘Get out and vote in EU elections or risk threat to renewables’
    WindEurope says high turnout vital to thwart threat from sceptics as it urges 300,000 sector employees to cast ballot
    Launching a campaign under the banner of ‘For more renewables, vote in the European Parliament elections’, WindEurope pointed to the parliament’s track record as a “key enabler” of renewable energy.
    The body’s CEO Giles Dickson said: “These elections are crucial for renewables. The current European Parliament fought for ambition and got a 32% renewable energy target for 2030.”…READ ON
    https://www.rechargenews.com/transition/1778467/get-out-and-vote-in-eu-elections-or-risk-threat-to-renewables

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    pat

    big on BBC World Service radio last night; no doubt all over the rest of BBC:

    10 May: BBC: Climate change: Scientists test radical ways to fix Earth’s climate
    By Pallab Ghosh, Science correspondent
    Scientists in Cambridge plan to set up a research centre to develop new ways to repair the Earth’s climate.
    It will investigate radical approaches such as refreezing the Earth’s poles and removing CO2 from the atmosphere…

    ***The initiative is co-ordinated by the government’s former chief scientific adviser, Prof Sir David King.
    “What we do over the next 10 years will determine the future of humanity for the next 10,000 years. There is no major centre in the world that would be focused on this one big issue,” he told BBC News…READ ON
    1,578 COMMENTS AT TIME OF POSTING
    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-48069663

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      Annie

      Words fail me, again. :(

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      Bill in Oz

      Funded by the May/Maybe Not government ?

      Pat I am still red thumbiing any BS you report from elsewhere like this the Bbbbbeeee

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        Annie

        Jo’s banner:

        “A perfectly good civilisation going to waste…”

        I think Pat’s offerings keep us informed of so many aspects of the sad waste of our civilisation. I could not do the research Pat does and nobody is forced to read it. I follow up what I can when I can.

        Thank you Pat :)

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          Bill in Oz

          Annie t is not a comment on Pat personally
          It is my comment on what he is reporting.
          As Pat does report so much
          There is no way I can write comments
          About each of them

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            Annie

            You don’t need to comment on all of them. I don’t but take an interest on certain items without feeling the need always to have my own say!

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              Annie

              BTW, I do find your formatting more difficult to read than straightforward prose. A pity, as you often have something interesting to say!
              I can understand the reason for Richard Greene’s need to do it but why have you now embarked on that style?

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                Bill in Oz

                It just reflects the way I think
                Short chunks of ‘content’ Annie.

                It compresses things
                And makes it easier
                To understand for most folks.

                Lohn convoluted sentences
                With subordinate clauses
                Just lose me.

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    pat

    ABC being fed a new one…read all:

    11 May: ABC: Dubious environmental group Gatekeepers of Our Reef ‘infiltrates’ Stop Adani movement
    Exclusive by Josh Robertson
    A mysterious environmental group fronted by dubious online identities — including one endorsed by a former Liberal party staffer — has spent more than a year trying to forge ties with the Adani protest movement while urging activists to target Clive Palmer…

    One of its organisers, “Dayna Thompson”, falsely claimed in an online resume to be a research fellow at the University of Western Australia (UWA)…
    Her LinkedIn profile featured endorsements by just one person, Jack Barlow, who was then an electorate officer for WA Liberal senator Dean Smith.
    Mr Barlow first told the ABC that he “studied with her at UWA”…READ ON
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-11/dubious-environmental-group-infiltrates-stop-adani-movement/11100594

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    pat

    cannot vouch for the all the figures, but worth a read:

    10 May: American Thinker: The UN is making up claims about extinctions
    By Jack Hellner
    Faunalytics, a group that helps save endangered animals, has only 3,000 animals on its endangered species list, so there’s reason to ask questions. Start with this: where does the one million number come from?
    The public has repeatedly been told that humans are causing thousands of animals to go extinct each year, yet a study by National Autonomous University of Mexico in 2015 (LINK) found only 477 identified species that have gone extinct since 1900, or around four per year.
    In 2015, Yale University estimated that there are three trillion trees on Earth. Previous estimates were 400 billion, yet we are told that humans are killing trees rapidly.

    For decades, the public has been told that the oceans are dying, too, yet the best estimate for number of fishes in the seas is 3.5 trillion.
    There have been many predictions of snowless winters, and we get record snows…
    https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/05/the_un_is_making_up_claims_about_extinctions.html

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    pat

    10 May: BBC: Climate change: How frogs could vanish from ponds
    By Helen Briggs
    Climate change is having an impact on frogs found in British ponds, research suggests.
    A deadly frog disease is spreading due to warmer temperatures and in the next 50 years could cause entire populations to vanish, according to a study…

    The study provides “strong evidence” of the impact of climate change on wildlife disease and how it might aid the spread of the virus across the UK, said Dr Stephen Price of ZSL’s Institute of Zoology…
    The prospect of entire populations of frogs being wiped out is “a real sadness” given the fond memories many people have of pond dipping and collecting tadpoles, he added…
    The study, published in Global Change Biology, was carried out with Queen Mary University of London, UCL and University of Plymouth.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-48219217

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    pat

    read all from the AP’s CAGW veterans, Borenstein & Lederer:

    8 May: AP: UN chief says ‘total disaster’ if warming not stopped
    By SETH BORENSTEIN and EDITH M. LEDERER
    UNITED NATIONS — The United Nations secretary-general said the world must dramatically change the way it fuels factories, vehicles and homes to limit future warming to a level scientists call nearly impossible.
    That’s because the alternative “would mean a catastrophic situation for the whole world,” António Guterres told The Associated Press in an exclusive interview.
    Guterres said he’s about to tour Pacific islands to see how climate change is devastating them as part of his renewed push to fight it…

    He said he wants countries to build no new coal power plants after 2020. He wants them to put a price on the use of carbon…
    https://www.apnews.com/5771645c622d4717bffc3e33fbc20df9

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    pat

    9 May: HMRC solar VAT proposals will hinder country’s net zero target, CCC says
    by Liam Stoker
    https://www.solarpowerportal.co.uk/news/hmrc_solar_vat_proposals_will_hinder_countrys_net_zero_target_ccc_says

    9 May: UK Independent: Climate crisis: Huge VAT rise on solar panels makes installation ‘entirely uneconomic’, say experts
    ‘We could not have a clearer sign the government has failed to even begin to grasp the urgency’, says Green Party co-leader
    by Harry Cockburn
    Raising VAT on solar panels from 5 per cent to 20 risks making their installation “entirely uneconomic”, experts have warned.
    Although parliament declared a climate emergency earlier this month, rates for fossil fuels including gas and coal will remain at 5 per cent, while materials for some renewables will see tax rises of 15 per cent.
    These rates will apply from 1 October and follow a consultation by HMRC which closed last week.

    The VAT hike on materials for solar panels and also battery storage, came as the government’s official advisory body on climate change recommended the UK reaches net zero fossil fuel emissions by 2050…
    https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change-solar-panels-vat-government-fossil-fuels-sian-berry-a8906361.html

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    pat

    behind paywall – what utter nonsense:

    10 May: UK Times: Global warming anxiety at record high after heatwave
    by Emily Gosden
    Climate change is a concern for eight in ten Britons, the highest level since official polling began seven years ago.
    Opposition to fracking and support for onshore wind farms have also both hit new highs, according to survey data released by the government yesterday.

    The survey of more than 4,000 households was carried out in mid-March, amid increasing coverage of schoolchildren striking in protest over inaction on climate change.
    It forms part of the business department’s quarterly public opinion tracking focused on energy issues, which it has carried out since 2012…
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/global-warming-anxiety-at-record-high-after-heatwave-20c62hn5l

    8 May: DesmogUK: European Elections: Nine Climate Emergency Candidates That Want to Shake Up The Political System
    By Chloe Farand
    None of them have stood in an election before, some have been arrested to raise awareness about the climate crisis, and all want to change the political system.
    Inspired by the Extinction Rebellion (XR) movement and the climate school strikes, the Climate and Ecological Emergency Independents (CEEI) candidates have promised to break from traditional campaign tactics and take direct action, break the law, and engage in grassroots debates to get attention…READ ON
    https://www.desmog.co.uk/2019/05/08/european-elections-nine-climate-ecological-emergency-independents-candidates-roger-hallam-extinction-rebellion

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      pat

      10 May: ClimateChangeNews: European left eyes transatlantic Green New Deal
      Proponents said their plan to commit 5% of EU GDP to climate action and ending austerity was the first step towards radical global cooperation
      By Chloé Farand
      Socialists hoping to win power in Europe and the US are exploring cooperation on a transatlantic Green New Deal…
      The pledge has so far been endorsed by the UK Labour MP Clive Lewis and MEP candidate Laura Parker as well as the 18 candidates of the transnational list European Spring, which includes former Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis…
      Varoufakis has previously called for an international Green New Deal which would mobilise 5% of global GDP to confront the climate crisis…
      https://www.climatechangenews.com/2019/05/10/european-left-eyes-transatlantic-green-new-deal/

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    Ross

    I did not see the debate but surely the reply to Shorten should have been to ask the basic question ” What is the cost of not doing anything?”
    If as a some above said he thinks it is the cost of insurance repairs etc. then the reply would be “But extreme weather is not increasing”
    It would have got him completely wound up at the very least.

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    pat

    surely, not even a dedicated CAGW media house could produce more CAGW propaganda than theirABC:

    AUDIO: 8min17sec: 11 May: ABC The Science Show: Mass migration of human populations predicted
    Last week Lewis Dartnell described how major geological forces have driven human evolution; how plate tectonics, changing climate, atmospheric circulation and ocean currents have all played a role in the human story, from the first appearance of our species, to today. This week, Lewis says things have flipped. Until just recently, the Earth controlled us. Now we control the Earth…
    In just 200 years, we’ve taken control of the Earth’s climate and its species. Lewis Dartnell says as the temperature rises, and as weather and climate shift, we’ll no longer be able to grow crops where we have for hundreds, sometimes thousands of years. He says this will spark the mass movement of humans to more hospitable climes, where there is water and where crops can be grown. But aren’t these areas occupied already?
    https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/scienceshow/mass-migration-of-human-populations-predicted/11101648

    AUDIO: 9min44sec: 11 May: ABC The Science Show: ALP promises funding boost for science
    Labor shadow science minister Senator Kim Carr outlines Labor’s approach to science with Zofia Witkowski-Blake. Labor is promising an increase in science funding from the current 1.9% of GDP to 3% by 2030 and a tax concession for R@D investment. Kim Carr says strong scientific evidence should be behind all government decisions. He promises more respect for scientists and calls for an end to war between government and ***those who deliver undesirable messages.
    https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/scienceshow/alp-promises-funding-boost-for-science/11101696

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    NB

    I’d be interested to know the reputation of Shorten in relation to his personal interactions with women during his union days.

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    Bill in Oz

    E M Smith on temperature anomalies in Asia…

    Te data is all screwed up !

    “In Conclusion
    Looking at those graphs, I just can’t see any way to justify the claim that it is caused by CO2. CO2 is a slow gradual effect over decades (per the claims) and with stong DECAY of effect with concentration. It doesn’t “do nothing” until 2000 then give a 1 C to 2 C step change. It doesn’t “trim off the cold years” and only narrow the range of variability while not raising the warmer years in one country, while doing something quite different in the country right next door.

    To me, this looks a whole lot more like some minor UHI effects up until a Step Change happens. That the change is all about the same decade or two, but does vary by country, makes me think of instrument changes to electronic thermometers, and the growth of airports and jet traffic with thermometers at the airports.

    In short, the land temperature data are crap and reflect poor location of instruments and change of instruments more than anything else.

    Then, just the way that the anomalies can change by a few Degrees C with shifts of whatever processing is different between v3.3 and v4 OR a change of what instruments are in the record: That means that claiming 1/2 C of “Global Warming”, without addressing that several C of instrument change artifacts, is just daft. There is simply no way to claim you know anything from these data, even with anomaly processing, with that level of change from version to version of what is supposed to be the SAME temperature at the SAME place and mostly with the SAME historical instruments and their data.

    Then, that these data using anomaly processing can vary so much; that puts the lie to the claim that you can ignore instrument change by using anomalies. You just can’t. Change the instruments, change the results, it’s that simple.”
    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2019/05/11/ghcn-v3-3-vs-v4-asia-anomaly/

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    Another Ian

    More wot Bill didn’t read

    “Leaving children with a $240 trillion debt pile should be a hell of a lot more disturbing than theoretically slightly warmer air”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2019/05/11/leaving-children-with-a-240-trillion-debt-pile-should-be-a-hell-of-a-lot-more-disturbing-than-theoretically-slightly-warmer-air/

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    Rob

    Don’t be rushing out to buy an electric vehicle.
    If Shorten has his way, there will be enough of them plugging into the grid to destroy it.
    Best stay with with a well maintained vehicle that will keep going on petrol.

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      yarpos

      while ever there is a 50-100% premium for the same funcionality a rush seems unlikely.

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      Maptram

      One of Shorten’s promises is to spend $1 billion to buy the land for high speed rail network. No mention of how the trains will be powered, but electric would put more strain on the grid.

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    Another Ian

    O/T but this thread needs a laugh (IMO of course)

    “Last Minute Friday Funny”

    “Dr Larch Maxey was left red faced after trying to superglue himself to the main doors of Bristol City Council to raise awareness about climate change, unaware they were automatic.”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/05/10/last-minute-friday-funny/

    If his “Dr” is a Ph.D. well then an indication of modern standards.

    If he’s a medico I’d be going somewhere else.

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    Another Ian

    Not so funny

    From Facebook “Bill Shorten is worth $50 mill”.

    If ever we needed letters to the editor along the lines of this from USA it is now:-

    “I do not want to see the tax returns of a millionaire who becomes a politician.

    I definitely want to see those of a politician who becomes a millionaire”

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      robert rosicka

      While I have no idea if that’s correct , if Labor do win I’m sure there will be a massive jump in politicians that are millionaires in the near future .

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      LightningCamel

      Not to mention all the banker mates of that miserable Turnbull clan.

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    DayHay

    Let’s see, if all the Aussies died tomorrow, how much evil CO2 would be saved from the atmosphere?
    Current estimates say 1.3% of the global output.
    Ergo, it is statistically impossible for Australia to affect global warming.

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    LightningCamel

    Well yes, the result of “doing nothing” would be measured in thousandths of a degree by even the most artificially sensitive model so that the cost of doing nothing is zero and the avoided costs are in the billions. This seems like the sort of nice simple message beloved by politicians. Scott Morrison could explain this to the electorate and cut Shorten off at the knees. Does not require straining at gnats about models, deniers or anything else.

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    Angus McFarlane

    Nearly two years ago, Alan Finkel our Chief Scientist, gave his answer to Bill Shorten’s “charlatan” question.

    Finkel was asked what difference it would make to the climate if Australia stopped emitting 100% of its carbon dioxide. Finkel’s answer, “Virtually nothing.”

    There you have it, the cost of Australia doing nothing would be nothing because the global climate would not be changed by Bill’s very expensive emission reductions.

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      Enoch Root

      That is exactly what political responsibility is for and that is exactly why it’s changing for the worse over time. Politicians, pretty much all of them nowadays, think Treasury money is government’s money (even though governments produce nothing). And that is the ultimate reason behind all these deranged policies all over the world: too much money, not enough responsibility.

      Politicians have to be reminded everyday that Treasury money is not theirs to make use of. It’s tax payer’s money. It’s not to go funding crazy ideas, is to keep the bare bones of the country together. It’s to secure our borders. It’s to keep the rule of Law.

      If Taxpayer’s money is treated as such, it would be morally incorrect to be spent in a broad range of uses, from funding of abortion clinics (it is immoral to use a abortion-oppositionist money to pay for abortions) to CO2 emissions reduction policies (it is immoral to use climate science scam skeptical’s money to fund renewables).

      In a representation democracy, the way to remind politicians of this is to vote for those that have a track record of treating tax payer’s money as such. I can only pray that Australians mark the ballot accordingly.

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    Hivemind

    The lying charlatan says only a lying charlatan would ask.

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    so I’m calling BS on the weak El-Nino claim if such things are known by what they actually characteristically do.

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