JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


Handbooks


Advertising


Australian Speakers Agency



GoldNerds

The nerds have the numbers on precious metals investments on the ASX



The Skeptics Handbook

Think it has been debunked? See here.

The Skeptics Handbook II

Climate Money Paper



Archives

Bill Shorten sells emissions cost: “like chubby people giving up Big Macs”

Bill Shorten wants us to give up cheap electricity because it’s bad for our health. History will show he’s the guy from the ’70s telling us to give up eggs for thirty years for no good reason at all.

Renewables are the margarine of electricity grids: artificial goods propped up by good intentions. They both fail at high temperatures and were Generally Recognised As Safe — when no one had done any studies. But trans-fats causes heart attacks, and artificial transitions cause poverty.

Eating vegetable oils with no cholesterol sounded good at the time. Just like “free wind” and “free solar” sounds like a free lunch, but turns out to make the whole system chaotically inefficient and horribly expensive. We pay less for fuel but more for capital, wages, infrastructure, stabilizers, and storage.

Free wind and solar are the fake diet foods of the 21st century.

This is Bill trying to explain why we don’t need to mention any numbers.

Saving the planet like giving up Big Macs

Andrew Burrell, The Australian

Having repeatedly dodged questions about the actual cost of Labor’s grand environmental plan, the Opposition Leader yesterday dismissed all the fuss, likening his emissions-reduction policy to stopping “chubby” people eating burgers.

“You know what, mate, you are a great athlete,” he said to the radio show’s morning host.

“But if you had a friend who was perhaps on the large side, the chubby side, and they had 10 Big Macs a day … there’s a cost to not eating the Big Macs. But in the long term it’s an investment isn’t it? ”

I predict he dumps this analogy like a radioactive potato.

 

 

Commenters at The Australian:

David
Bills analogy is pretty spot on.
If all Australians give up Big Macs – MacDonalds goes out of business
If all Australians adopt Bills policies – Australia goes out.of business
Gustav
Burgernomics as relating to Carbon Trading. 
You start up a burger franchaise
You start with two hamburger outlets
You sell three of them to your publicly listed company, using letters of credit opened by a mate at the bank, then execute a debt/equity swap with an associated general offer so that you get all four hamburger outlets back, with a tax exemption for five hamburger outlets
The carbon credit rights of the six hamburger outlets are transferred via an intermediary to a Cayman Island Company secretly owned by the majority shareholder who sells the rights to all seven hamburger outlets back to your listed company.
The annual report says the company owns eight hamburger outlets with an option on one more.
Makes as much sense as the gobbledegook sprouted by Bill Shorten, but some are falling for it.Maggie
BruceM
I am going to pledge that I will not eat more than one Big Mac at a time – just to save the planet.  I must admit I thought that it wouldn’t be so easy.  I thought Bills policies were going to cost us billions, force up power prices and force most of our manufacturing to go overseas.

h/t Willie. Matthew.

 

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 9.3/10 (85 votes cast)
Bill Shorten sells emissions cost: "like chubby people giving up Big Macs", 9.3 out of 10 based on 85 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/y58gupfe

202 comments to Bill Shorten sells emissions cost: “like chubby people giving up Big Macs”

  • #
    Latus Dextro

    Bill Shorten sells emissions cost: “like chubby people giving up Big Macs”

    In short, How to break Australia’s backbone
    Change your government, your educators, your media, your administrators … change them or it’s over Australia.

    430

    • #
      Ted O'Brien

      So. We are “chubby people”, and for our own good Bill is going to starve us.

      I always knew he would demolish our living standards, but I thought it was due to ignorance. I didn’t know it was deliberate upfront policy.

      180

      • #
        J Burns

        Spot on. This is the root motivation behind ‘climate’ activism (in quotes as most proponents of catastrophism couldn’t even define what climate is). A manifestation of the age old contempt held by classes who hold themselves superior for the unwashed masses – a phobia of ‘the brute’ and a personification of a mass of generalised intangible fears to give them a tolerable face. It’s just the same sort of psychology as racism, just socially acceptable. Of course, as this goes against avowed leftist principles, it comes with suppressed guilt, again redirected and projected onto ‘the other’, as people don’t like acknowledging guilt, it makes them uncomfortable. It’s the same old crap we’ve seen since the dawn of weaponised envy (sorry, Marxism), just in different clothes.

        111

  • #
    Annie

    That is one of the most gormless things yet said by a politician. I can’t believe anyone can take Shorten seriously as a prospective PM.

    500

    • #
      ivan

      Annie,

      It appears that his one functioning brain cell has gone on strike, but that is the typical Labor.

      310

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Its just the same evil UN Agenda 21/30, conveyed by whichever the chosen sock puppet is…….

        Give it another 5 years and they will be advocating a vegetarian diet, to protect the mythical pagan “Gaia”…..

        This appear to be a religious war – the pagan occult globalists – vs – normal humanity.

        271

        • #
          Annie

          We’ll then be told to starve because plants have ‘feelings’ (electrical ‘aura’ and all that jazz). Humans don’t matter in the Gaia creed…it’s disgusting.

          111

    • #

      BS revealed his intellect when he replied to reporter on a Gillard statement: I don’t know what she said, but I agree with it.’

      300

    • #
      yarpos

      Global average IQ = 82. He is relatable.

      210

    • #
      Gee aye

      he is gormless. That is how the public see him too. The election was always Labor’s to lose with him as their leader.

      181

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      He cant answer any questions logically, just rants about emmissions. Even without that he just rants. Im not a total Scomo fan either but BS didnt answer any of Scomo’s questions logically at the debate last Monday.

      180

      • #
        Ted O'Brien.

        There seems to be an awful lot of people just ranting about emissions. How else could Bill Shorten get away with this?

        30

    • #
      Hanrahan

      Canada is a few years ahead of us. They will soon be rid of their gormless [luv that word] PM just as we take ours on board.

      110

      • #
        Latus Dextro

        Sadly New Zealand lags behind the World’s behind, a flea on a gnats bottom on the buttock of the elephant. It’ll take a decade to start the purge in the country of the neo-Marxist super-division rainbow climatism cult. The country will lag hopelessly behind the curve of history and Australia, as usual, and doubtless be signalling its misguided delusional virtue to no one in particular, well, maybe the Chinese.

        100

  • #
    Ed Bo

    How dare he fat shame chubby people!

    270

  • #

    Would you like polyunsaturated fries with your white elephants? And remember, now you can upsize to an EV-friendly power outlet that won’t singe your pink batts. For more information just consult the Encarta CD-ROM in your child’s school laptop.

    230

  • #
    Asp

    Hopefully the Big Mac will be to BS what a birthday cake was to Hewson.

    210

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    I’m old enough to remember when Kevin Rudd said climate change global warming would cost $1 a year …

    7.30 report, 2007: “That is that they calculate that between now and about 2045 that you’d be looking at a total impact … in the vicinity of $45 per person over that period of time or something like $1 per person per year.”
    http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2007/s2076131.htm

    Fast forward to Bill Shorten;
    7.30 report, episode wed, 1/5/19, 2019 (15.26sec): “Both in the short term and long term, the cost of not acting on climate change is far worse than the cost of acting on climate change.

    What is the cost to the environment?
    Well the cost is in not acting.”

    https://iview.abc.net.au/show/7-30

    Enough with the green virtue signalling.
    Not one example of the cost of “not acting” has eventuated.

    You sir, are a sham.

    280

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    In all fairness to Bill, how can he know the costs when …

    New Models Suggest Much Faster Global Warming

    “The new models suggest that previous estimates were too conservative, and that doubling of atmospheric carbon dioxide will produce 5 degrees C. or more of global warming in the future.

    Climate scientists are not sure why…”

    >> If the more aggressive climate change models look convincing that will put additional pressure on the IPCC to say something more urgent.

    And that in turn will require at least the appearance of a timely reply or response on the part of politicians.  <<

    https://oilprice.com/The-Environment/Global-Warming/Shocking-Evidence-Suggests-Much-Faster-Global-Warming.html

    90

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘The new models suggest that previous estimates were too conservative, and that doubling of atmospheric carbon dioxide will produce 5 degrees C. or more of global warming in the future.’

      Its a blatant lie because for the past two decades temperatures have remained flat as CO2 increased markedly.

      201

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        I saw that the oil shock of the 70s didnt change CO2 levels one bit, even though transport suffered a very big downturn.

        130

    • #
      yarpos

      I think the formula in cell M132 needs adjusting

      110

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      The lies are growing!

      20

    • #
      Bobl

      Of course this results in an even more insane violation of the law of conservation of energy where 3.7 watts of inbound energy can mysteriously cause over 20 watts of outbound energy. Why these so-called scientists can’t do the simple math to validate their assumptions comply with the law of conservation of energy is beyond me, but frankly I’ve contacted some of them and they don’t do the energy balance checks.

      20

      • #
        Kinky Keith

        Unfortunately Bob, those studying pure science don’t become involved with the analysis of complex interactive systems, so many factors are out of sight and out of mind.

        00

  • #
    AndyG55

    “likening his emissions-reduction policy to stopping “chubby” people eating burgers”

    And he just lost 97% of the Labor vote ! :-)

    223

  • #
    Rosco

    Why doesn’t someone who has access to the data actually calculate exactly where the 45% emissions reductions are going to come from ? It simply cannot be from 50% renewable electricity generation – even 100 % will not achieve the target !

    Therefore substantial cuts in emissions must come from one or more of :-

    1. Transport
    2. Manufacture
    3. Agriculture
    4. Mining

    All involve killing the economy.

    Transport is the most intriguing option.

    Private transport and leisure activities offer huge emissions reduction potential.

    BUT what will it take to achieve the reductions and what cost for petrol will have to be ?

    My opinion is that most people wouldn’t change their behaviour enough to make the 45% target with a mere $1.00 increase to ~$2.50 a litre. I reckon it’d need to be of the order of >$3.00 a litre to reduce non essential driving.

    Why isn’t this a major talking point ?

    Are they too afraid to attack a clearly insane policy ? After all SE Asia will simply wipe out any emissions reductions we make in a year or two. And that’s assuming CO2 is actually a problem.

    310

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Good point.

      The thing is, it appears this is a religious war – the earth worshipping pagans and the rest of humanity.

      In their mind to be “kind” they have to curtail human activity to protect their precious ( and mythical, at best ) “Gaia”

      In their writings, they also believe people will have to be kicked into their twisted view of things, as most right minded people will reject their demented view of things.

      Think National Socialism meets Green, and you arent far off…..

      160

    • #
      pattoh

      On the money.

      If the trade battle reflects in what is being generally reported in the “slowing global velocity of money”, Australia’s balance of payments will blow out.

      As it stands, ~~ 3/4 of our income comes from the Resources & Rural sectors.

      https://www.rba.gov.au/chart-pack/balance-payments.html

      These sectors comprise the largest consumers of liquid fuels.

      We don’t refine fuel here anymore.

      A significant fuel cost rise will impact the economics of the Rural & Resource sectors.

      The resulting downturn in the export sector against our foreign debt will accelerate a fall in the A$ & the cost of foreign capital will rise along with the incapacity to repay.

      The Anti-Everything Greens will succeed in destroying the great legacy gifted us through the sacrifice of our forebears.

      Clever Country NOT!

      WTFU!

      [& Bill will be eating cold pies in the Parliamentary Dining room.]

      200

      • #
        yarpos

        “We don’t refine fuel here anymore.”

        Not the case Pattoh, but we certainly dont refine enough

        30

        • #
          pattoh

          Cheers Yarpos!

          I stand corrected [ & all enlightenment gratefully & humbly accepted].

          https://www.energy.gov.au/sites/default/files/australian_petroleum_statistics_-_issue_271_feb_2019.pdf

          I guess the ~~ 20% made here will be enough to keep the Police [ & Com Cars ] cars on the road.

          It is probably not enough to keep the economics of the resource sector competitive for long though.

          I still cannot understand why [S] Middle Distillate Synthesis was not a condition of the NW Shelf leases though.

          Get up your politicians – they chose their jobs!

          80

          • #
            yarpos

            “I still cannot understand why [S] Middle Distillate Synthesis was not a condition of the NW Shelf leases though.”

            That would be the adding value thing, which is complex and hard work which we choose not to do in Australia. Much better just to be a quarry and a well for the world, get the short term $s and fritter it away on useless stuff like wind turbines , pumping water uphill and enhanced parliamentary pensions.

            70

    • #
      John in Oz

      I’m sure BS (apt initials) is doing his bit by riding around the country in his electric bus – isn’t he?

      121

    • #
      ghl

      I see CAGW as a fluorescent dye that reveals and high-lights corruption in our society.
      Even choosing wilful ignorance is corruption.
      Becoming Prime Minister to introduce carbon trading, to benefit merchant bankers, is corruption.
      Working to lose elections is corruption.
      Bill Shorten is corruption personified.

      120

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      If you look at Dr Ed Berry’s work on atmospheric CO2 flow then humans can at most contribute 4.4% of the total, which if you use the (wrong fallacious) CO2 temp from that 4.4% give rise of .06 C! un-measurable. .So 45% reduction is then gives 1.98% contribution. Meaningless.
      Of course 0 (real) increase of any % is ZERO.

      130

      • #
        Salome

        What you’re saying is what I’ve been saying–there’s nothing wrong with the bloody climate.

        80

    • #
      ivan

      But it is all following the requirements of Agenda 21/30, that is herding the slaves plebs into slave camps sustainable cities where they are expected to not need cars because the will not be traveling anywhere except between their cubby and work.

      30

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Yet Bill gets a free ride from the press , where are the msm .

    160

  • #
    PeterS

    This is a perfect example the lack of thinking and reasoning abilities by Labor and Greens supporters. No sane person would ever vote for them given their polices on energy. So is Australia as a whole a sane nation? We’ll know the answer soon enough after election time.

    141

    • #
      el gordo

      Propaganda dulls the development of independent thought.

      90

      • #
        PeterS

        Therein lies the root cause of the problem. The development of so called independent thought begins at kindergarten and can end as late as University, which are all controlled by and large by mindless fools of the left. Only a select proportion of the students will survive the onslaught of leftist brainwashing and come out as real independent thinkers as distinct from drones of the left who have been trained to think that socialism is the answer to everything and that Western civilisation must be destroyed. Crash and bun here we come. I just hope it doesn’t happen in my time but I fear it might.

        100

        • #
          el gordo

          I agree that the education system has a green left culture, but there is a way to turn the world upside down in very quick time.

          If Labor wins the election based on dodgy numbers, then the Opposition will destroy them with the assistance of a new invigorated media.

          No matter what the outcome of the election, life will continue normally.

          61

          • #
            Kinky Keith

            Not “normally” surely, what’s happening might better be referred to as “usual”.

            Normally, implies a judgement that what’s going on is O.K. or what reasonable people might be happy with.

            How many are happy with the current set up?

            Not many from either side.

            KK

            80

            • #
              el gordo

              Democracy is in strife and even ordinary folk have told me we made need a dictatorship to save the planet.

              The problem is the MSM, we need a debate to expose the big lie. For starters Catalano has just bought Fairfax rural division and I’m confident of a good outcome.

              40

    • #
      Robdel

      Whatever happens at election time, we will deserve it.

      40

  • #
    robert rosicka

    I’m sure I said this months ago but all Lil Bill had to do to win the election was keep his mouth shut and the mouths of his shadow ministers , that’s it and all too easy but noooooooooo he had to open his big mouth .

    60

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      Too true that.

      Best example of the implementation of that approach is Labor’s Treasury spokesman. Can’t remember his name. What is it?

      Anyway, she/he has had nothing to say on the numbers that I’ve heard.

      Perhaps Bill’s burgers will be the new currency when Australia finally goes belly-up.

      50

  • #
    Kinky Keith

    And while “Electricity Bill Shorten” mooves foreward, the job of presenting True Scientific Reality is carried on by amazing people, like Nils Axel Morner, who are ridiculed and dismissed.

    N.A.M.

    Mörner said, criticizing the Rockefeller dynasty and global efforts to keep developing countries from developing under the guise of saving the climate. “This is the hope of controlling everything. It is autocracy. It is really bad. Nobody should rule like that. But everybody has had these strange dreams — small countries of being larger, and empires wanting to be super-empires, and then they collapse. We have a whole history full of that. This globalism is a dangerous thing.”

    To my mind, the only solution is for each country to take back it’s Democratic functioning and start again.

    The United Nations is not useful to any but the new self styled elites and from a moral perspective is as ugly as any of the international upheavals of the last one hundred years.

    We are currently well into World War 111 but very few seem able to acknowledge it.

    Just a silly, thought provoking question: where did Rudd, Gillard and Trumble head as soon as they had done their time?

    New York.

    KK

    140

    • #
      sophocles

      where did Rudd, Gillard and Trumble head as soon as they had done their time?

      … let me guess: to 405 E 42nd St 1st Avenue, New York City, NY, USA. Right?

      130

  • #
    pat

    tons of stuff in the following, behind paywall:

    Price Labor’s carbon cuts? Yes you can by Simon Benson
    The Australian – 2 May 2019
    Unlimited access to cheap foreign carbon credits could halve the negative impact of Labor’s cap-and-trade carbon policy but it would still cost $264 billion in lost economic activity, according to independent modelling to be released today…

    Bill Shorten cannot fudge the cost of climate action Editorial
    The Australian-7 hours ago
    As Simon Benson reports today, Labor’s cap-and-trade climate … Brian Fisher, a former head of the Australian Bureau of Agricultural and …

    2 May: AFR: Labor’s carbon cuts will still hurt: Fisher
    by Phillip Coorey
    Labor’s decision to allow heavy polluters to offset emissions (LINK) using international carbon credits has “substantially” reduced previous estimates of the negative economic impact of its climate policy, new modelling shows.
    But the forecast impact on the economy, power prices and employment would still be greater than that of the Coalition’s policy.

    The modelling, by economist Brian Fisher, who Labor has previously criticised as dodgy, finds Labor’s plan to cut emissions by 45 per cent on 2005 levels by 2030, and have 50 per cent renewable energy by 2030, could result in real wages falling by between 3 per cent and 10.5 per cent over a decade.
    It depends on the ratio of emissions that are offset using foreign permits…

    Dr Fisher says all the economic losses occur as a result of the baseline and credit scheme. He said the effective carbon price would be as low as $67 if 100 per cent of emissions were offset using permits, $99 under 50 per cent and $405 under 25 per cent.
    The effective carbon price under the Coalition policy is $99…
    https://www.afr.com/news/politics/national/labor-s-carbon-cuts-will-still-hurt-fisher-20190501-p51iuy

    50

    • #
      John in Oz

      “Labor’s decision to allow heavy polluters to offset emissions…”

      I am going to keep eating my 10 Big Macs each day but pay a starving person in a country with no electrical infrastructure to not eat.

      My conscience is as clear as Bill’s, the global weather/climate will be perfect and I will lose weight at the same time.

      Simples

      90

  • #
    Bill in Oz

    I suspect Shortstop
    He’s signalling
    To the veganistic
    Animal Justice Mob
    That he is one with them.
    Of course he does need
    Their preferences.

    I weep for the
    Once great Labor Party
    Now dead and buried
    But re-animated
    As a Greenist zombie
    Party.

    120

  • #
    tom0mason

    “… 10 Big Macs a day … ” Not that’s not possible,
    10 Burger King Double Quarter Pound KING™ would be more appealing (but only every other day). :lol:

    80

  • #
    Earl

    It is a sad state affairs. We have to vote for a party of fools led by an idiot, or a party of idiots led by a fool. And those titles are interchangeable. I became politically aware in the times of Whitlam, Fraser, Hawke and Keating and Howard. Regardless of your politics, these men were statesmen. When we look at what we have today as being the best we’ve got, it really is pathetic.

    150

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      Whitlam????

      You mean the leader of Junie Morose, Abu Khemlani and the cast of thousands?

      Even John Howard who seemed O.K. eventually went off the rails and kow towed to the French over atomic testing before trying to reinvent himself in the eyes of voters before his last election.

      And didn’t Malcolm Frazer become a member of the Labor party or the greens?

      There is more, but the point is, looking back can sometimes be deceptive.

      KK

      101

      • #
        Earl

        Not looking back with rose coloured glass, there were many faults in all of them, and some damage still lingers
        But they undeniably all had presence, they presented as leaders. That were not pole driven and most off all, that could speak.

        70

        • #
          Kinky Keith

          Yes I can see what you’re getting at but recent experience with the smoothness of Pres. O’Bama who seemed to do very little for his country, makes me wary of this sort of polish.
          As an opposite, take Pres. Trump. In the glare of examination he , like most of us would, seems to be dysfunctional, nutty and a very unlikely person for the job of President.

          Despite that he seems to be moving America in the right direction. At least to an outsider.

          Performance is the most important item for me.

          KK

          91

          • #
            RicDre

            “recent experience with the smoothness of Pres. O’Bama who seemed to do very little for his country”

            I agree with your evaluation of Mr. Obama though I would add they he was only smooth when reading off of a teleprompter. When he had to speak extemporaneously he was generally not very smooth.

            90

            • #
              Another Ian

              Heard at a Gordon Lightfoot concert

              “Rough as a bear turd rolled in fish hooks”

              70

              • #
                Kinky Keith

                I wish!

                But in the meantime saw a group from Japan singing old Scots and Irish tunes, In Japanese.

                They were the best item on the list and did a haunting rendition of Ye Banks and Braes, in Japanese. Brought the house down.

                They did have a weird name though:

                John John Festival.

                KK

                10

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        K.K.

        To be fair to Whitlam he was the “big picture” man. The glorious future was what he promised, the details would be filled in later, if ever. And with the pack of clowns making up the majority of his Cabinet, and most of his backbenchers, the details were horribly confused, inept and very expensive.

        The same applies to BS; he has this vision of a glorious future, without any idea of how to get there nor any idea of the cost.

        71

        • #
          Another Ian

          As an expression of yesteryear had it:-

          “Founded firmly in mid-air”

          50

        • #
          Kinky Keith

          Hi Graeme, I’ve had close involvement with Whitlam and have have nothing good that can be said.

          I don’t see him as being “fair” to his subjects and better sign off before I let go.

          KK

          71

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            Didnt he demand the Queens portrait be taken down in schools and be replaced with his own?

            60

            • #
              Kinky Keith

              Was there any difference between Presidents Trumble and Whitlam?

              What we need is Government responsible To the people, and only the people, from the ground up.
              Present Government is by the Top Down method with all instructions and Commandments coming from top down.

              We, the people, have lost control in this Top Down system.

              We need a saviour, urgently.

              KK

              30

  • #
    pat

    ***IMMATERIAL is the new buzzword:

    2 May: news.com.au: Leigh Sales grills Bill Shorten in election campaign interview
    Bill Shorten has endured one of his toughest tests of the election campaign — a forensic interrogation by 7.30 host Leigh Sales.
    by Sam Clench
    To bolster his response, Mr Shorten drew on his meeting with steelworkers in Whyalla earlier on Wednesday.
    “There is a cost to investing in new technology, but they’re absolutely convinced that the only way we will keep making steel in Australia is by investing in renewable energy,” he said.
    “Let’s just talk to the two million Australian householders who’ve invested in solar power. There is an initial cost, depending on the deals they can get, but most people who go into solar, they don’t go back do they?”…

    SALES: “As a government, you are adopting that as your policy, you must have done some projections, short term, to what that will mean to GDP. Will it take say, 0.1 per cent off GDP, 0.5 per cent off GDP over 10 years?” she asked.
    Mr Shorten (SIC) analysis from Citibank saying “the consequences in terms of cost of policies like ours are ***IMMATERIAL”…
    https://www.news.com.au/national/federal-election/leigh-sales-grills-bill-shorten-in-election-campaign-interview/news-story/c37f9e36400a754f8e627e8557798815

    30 Apr: Guardian: Labor goes on offensive over Coalition’s climate change attack
    Mark Butler says it is ‘impossible’ to cost policy because Labor would not be imposing direct carbon price
    Butler said that Citibank had found Labor’s policy would have an ***“IMMATERIAL” economy-wide impact and that Warwick McKibbin concluded that a 45% target and the Coalition’s 26% target “would have no different impact whatsoever”…
    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/apr/30/labor-goes-on-offensive-over-coalitions-climate-change-attack

    50

    • #
      yarpos

      ““There is a cost to investing in new technology, but they’re absolutely convinced that the only way we will keep making steel in Australia is by investing in renewable energy,” he said.
      “Let’s just talk to the two million Australian householders who’ve invested in solar power. There is an initial cost, depending on the deals they can get, but most people who go into solar, they don’t go back do they?”…”

      I struggled to glean one useful bit of information from this gibberish from Dear Leader Bill. Was there a point buried in there somewhere??

      100

    • #
      RicDre

      “…they’re absolutely convinced that the only way we will keep making steel in Australia is by investing in renewable energy”

      I think there is a typo in that sentence, it should say “…they’re absolutely convinced that the only way we will keep the best way to stop making steel in Australia is by investing in renewable energy”. I guess steelworkers plan on going on the government dole since they will no longer have jobs.

      110

  • #
    pat

    1 May: SMH: New modelling to unleash explosive row over climate change costings
    By David Crowe
    Opposition Leader Bill Shorten is facing an explosive political row over his climate change policy as industry warns of rising costs and a new economic study predicts 167,000 fewer jobs by 2030 under the Labor plan.
    Business groups backed the ambition to reduce greenhouse gas emissions but said they deserved more detail given they would pay for the scheme, in a rebuke to Labor’s claim it was “impossible” to model the cost of its policy on employers and the economy…

    Dr Fisher concludes the Labor emissions target would subtract at least $264 billion from gross national product by 2030 and as much as $542 billion depending on the rules for big companies to buy international carbon permits to meet their targets.
    “Negative consequences for real wages and employment are projected under all scenarios, with a minimum 3 per cent reduction in real wages and 167,000 less [sic] jobs in 2030 compared to what otherwise would have occurred,” he concludes.
    “Labor’s plan results in a cumulative GNP loss over the period from 2021 to 2030 that is over three times larger than that occurring under the Coalition policy.

    “Turning to other results, the wholesale electricity price under Labor’s climate policy is around ***20 per cent higher than that resulting from the Coalition policy.”…
    https://www.smh.com.au/federal-election-2019/new-modelling-to-unleash-explosive-row-over-climate-change-costings-20190501-p51j5e.html

    ***listening to Vision Radio read the Simon Benson piece in The Australian, he wrote of wholesale electricity price being 50 per cent higher under Labor by whatever year he mentioned, so don’t know whether the 20 per cent mention by Crowe/SMH means the price would increase by 30 per cent under the Coalition’s policy. needs to be investigated further.

    40

    • #
      RicDre

      “…Labor’s claim it was “impossible” to model the cost of its policy on employers and the economy…”

      Funny, they can’t model their policy but they don’t think they have any problems modeling the far more complex climate system.

      120

  • #
    pat

    another important article I heard being read on Vision radio. all about how the doubling of wholesale energy prices has stymied the Qld Labor Govt plan to mine base metals for export for EVs etc:

    Emerging sector that’s failing to deliver
    Chronicle-2 hours ago
    THE new-age resources precinct touted as the next big thing for the Queensland economy has suffered a dramatic fall in fortunes over the past …
    It’s a mining sector both sides of politics can agree on, powering everything from iPhones to electric cars. But Queensland is failing to capitalise…
    however wholesale power prices have more than doubled…
    https://www.thechronicle.com.au/news/base-metal-xxports-from-port-of-townsville-halve-o/3716316/

    50

  • #
    pat

    new details in this today, behind paywall:

    Solar panels Qld: New laws to cost hundreds of jobs
    Courier Mail – 11 hours ago
    Hundreds of Queenslanders will be laid off from solar projects, with … balloon by 20 per cent because of laws “rushed” by the State Government…
    GEM Energy, which has several contracts to install solar panels across the state, fears many of its projects will become financially unviable…

    earlier:

    17 Apr: Guardian: Queensland solar projects could become ‘unviable’ due to safety regulations row
    Clean Energy Council says requiring electricians to mount commercial solar panels could cost industry up to $390m
    by Ben Smee
    The Queensland government announced last week that licensed electricians would be required to mount commercial solar panels from 13 May.
    Analysis by the Clean Energy Council estimates the change could cost the industry between $170m and $390m over the next decade, an impost that could put at risk Queensland’s ambitious renewable energy generation target of 50% by 2030.

    The council’s director of energy generation, Anna Freeman, said it would make Queensland “a less attractive place to invest”.
    “It will make Queensland an outlier. No other jurisdiction in the world has these requirements.”

    The state industrial relations minister, Grace Grace, said the changes were made after concerns raised by the Electrical Trades Union and others about safety practices at solar construction sites, including the use of backpackers as labourers…
    The mounting of solar panels is manual labour and does not require any electrical wiring work, but the panels are live during the process.
    “Workers are at risk from electrocution … these are not jobs for unlicensed workers,” Grace said…

    Solar developers have told Guardian Australia they are unsure whether they can find enough licensed electricians to complete projects under construction…
    The CEC’s analysis shows the change would add 1.5% to 4% to the construction cost of a typical solar farm. Margins are increasingly thin in the renewable energy sector…

    The ETU’s Queensland state secretary, Peter Ong, said the CEC’s response was “overheated and hysterical” and the industry’s comments would do little to change the perception that “major players in the solar industry put profits before people”…READ ALL
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/apr/17/queensland-solar-projects-could-become-unviable-due-to-safety-regulations-row

    40

    • #
      Ian1946

      Great news. Anything that kills off wind and solar should be celebrated although I imagine the ETU are behind this and the Queenslang Government are just following orders.

      91

    • #
      RickWill

      It took Joh B-P a protracted strike to tame the electrical trades union in Queensland. Their influence over electricity pricing was dramatically reduced as a result. Now the current labour government is opening the cork that keeps the union genie at bay.

      On the other hand it is probably a good economic outcome if solar subsidy farms are not built rather than being built and then proving to be economic sink holes.

      101

  • #
    pat

    10 Apr: RenewEconomy: Queensland enacts new solar rules, as stunned industry warns of investment standstill
    by Sophie Vorrath
    The Queensland government has confirmed plans to put in place controversial new regulations for solar farm construction in the state that will restrict the installation or removal of PV panels to licensed electricians.
    In a media statement dispatched late on Tuesday afternoon, Queensland’s minister for industrial relations, Grace Grace, said the new code of practice would allow only licensed electricians to mount, locate, fix or remove solar panels on projects of 100kW and above would become law on May 13.

    The new rule, which came to RenewEconomy’s attention on Monday, has been slammed by industry groups as excessive, unnecessary, and potentially devastating to developers, due to the “large and sharp increase” in electricians that would be required for solar farm construction.
    One solar developer told RE that is was “akin to requiring an electrician to come and plug in your kettle every time you want to make a cup of tea.”

    And in a statement on Wednesday, the Clean Energy Council formalised its objections to the rule change, arguing it would will cost local jobs and slow the rollout of large-scale solar in Australia’s Sunshine State, which has a huge pipeline of more than 20GW of large scale solar projects waiting for developmen, as this graph from analysts Rystad Energy illustrates…

    CEC director of energy generation, Anna Freeman, expressed her organisation’s astonishment at the new rules, and even made her own household appliance comparison.
    “It’s the equivalent of a homeowner having to call an electrician as soon as they’ve unpacked a new television from the box, in order to hang it on the wall,” she said.
    “The government has not demonstrated why this new regulation – which risks hundreds of local jobs and could bring some projects to a standstill – is even necessary.”

    In her statement, Minister Grace said the new rule had come in response to stakeholder concerns that unlicensed workers, including backpackers and labourers, were mounting and removing “live” solar panels.
    “Solar panels generate power as soon as they are exposed to light and cannot be isolated while they are being mounted,” she said.
    “Workers are at risk from electrocution and fires if solar panels are not properly earthed during installation.
    “Removing panels can be even more dangerous. These are not jobs for unlicensed workers.”…

    But solar insiders argue that the rule change is more likely to make matters worse in an industry already facing problems of grid congestion, network connection delays, the reduction and variations in marginal loss factors, and lack of policy certainty…
    https://reneweconomy.com.au/queensland-enacts-new-solar-rules-as-stunned-industry-warns-of-investment-standstill-35346/

    40

  • #
    theRealUniverse

    Good video by
    Meteorologist Chuck Wiese presents the work of Edwin Berry, PhD

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=17&v=jr3NCCEf58A

    Humans Do Not Control Atmospheric CO2 Or Climate.

    He presents this. Circular logic if there was any ‘If human CO2 changes climate’ -> ‘Then bad stuff will happen’ -> ‘Bad stuff happens’ -> ‘Therefore human CO2 changes climate’..

    50

  • #
    Maptram

    One of the issues is that people like Mr Shorten want to spend $billions, but they can’t tell us how many billions, to reduce CO2 emissions and stop temperatures rising by more than 1.5 C, thereby saving the planet by stopping climate change. The problem is that temperatures are only a very small part of climate, there is also wind speed and direction, rain and lack of rain and lots more.

    60

    • #
      Another Ian

      That is only another couple of trillion they haven’t got around to mentioning thought you’d not notice

      50

  • #
    Ruairi

    The planet needs saving, its true,
    But achieved by more CO2,
    Which in growth is oft seen,
    As profuse luscious green,
    That politicians so blindly eschew.

    150

  • #
    MudCrab

    Actually as a metaphor, 8 to 10 Shorten has in many ways hit the nail.

    Bill is talking about ‘A chubby friend’ and how this other person needs to invest in their future.

    So because studies have shown that chubby friends are bad, and that chubby comes from eating fast food, the solution is to therefore ban fast food for everyone.

    The entire fast food industry must be shut down and a switch to kale made mandatory.

    Sure you will be dismantling and demonising an entire industry, removing markets from primary producers and forcing 15 year olds out on the streets, but studies have shown that chubby is the new evil. It must be done. No one will be allowed to get fast food every again.

    A sacrifice must be made… or at least by other people, because we all know that people like Bill already have scorned Big Macs and much prefer meat pies.

    90

    • #
      sophocles

      and a switch to kale made mandatory.

      But! but! but! Noooo … not kale! I prefer spinach! Look what it did for … ummm … you know … Wotz-his-name! Popeye the Sailorman?

      60

      • #
        Annie

        It’s a wonder he’s not become Popeye the Sailorperson…

        60

        • #
          sophocles

          It’s a wonder he’s not become Popeye the Sailorperson

          Why? He was/is male, so it’s Sailorman.
          If it had been Annie the Sailorgirl (which it wasn’t) that would still be correct …

          You’ll just have to get used to it: I don’t like Junk Language just as I don’t like Junk Sience …
          so I don’t use either. :-)

          50

          • #
            Annie

            I agree with you sophocles…I was in despairing sarc mode!
            I used to be Annie the Sailorgirl rather longer ago than I care to admit…loved dinghy-racing.

            40

      • #
        Annie

        Kale will be persondatory, what is more.

        50

        • #
          sophocles

          Ooh! I’m calling you on that one.

          Wrong root. Mandatory: comes from the Latin mandatorius, in Law; having the nature or powers of a Legal mandate, thus obligatory; compulsory.

          Nothing whatsoever to do with man as in male or human.
          So stop misusing/abusing the language, please. :-)

          30

          • #
            Annie

            Fair one but I couldn’t resist it…after all, it’s no sillier than what lefty language bullies come up with.
            If BS gets away with his nonsensical Big Mac rubbish, who knows what PC language might yet be invented and forced on us? They won’t worry about the finer points of words, roots and derivations thereof!

            40

  • #

    Oh, I dunno, maybe Bill got it right with his 10 Big Macs a day analogy on the cost of Climate Change for Australia.

    Population of Australia – 25 Million

    Cost of a Big Mac – $5.85, so 10 a day comes in at $58.50, multiplied by 25 Million equals $1.4625 Billion a day.

    So the cost of his climate change policy, same as those 10 Big Macs.

    $1.4625 Billion a day.

    Sounds about right!

    Tony.

    230

    • #
      sophocles

      Is that the whole population or have you discounted all the children and women who couldn’t possibly consume that number of BM’s per day?

      60

      • #
        Environment Skeptic

        And the intestinal bacteria/microorganism’s that have to consume B M’s. They do their best.

        20

    • #
      Annie

      Umm, no, some of us never eat Big Macs and the like, so chubby-making BMs need to be eaten at more like 20pd to cost as much as BS’s climate ‘policy’.

      60

      • #
        RickWill

        But it is mandated that you only eat Big Macs. You do not have to eat 10 per day but you have no choice what food you eat unless you go completely off grid!

        (an interesting aside if you have auto correct going type b I g m a c s with only a space between the two words)

        40

        • #
          RickWill

          I wondered why there was such reverence given to Big Macs in the above comments but you do not have a choice unless you turn off auto correct!

          Lets try:
          whopper burger
          kfc
          foot long
          subway
          coke
          pepsi
          marmite
          Vegemite – revered
          nike
          Adidas – revered
          ibm
          apple
          google
          intel
          canon
          lego
          ford
          volvo
          holden
          dodge

          I wonder if the most revered lose the capital when they become common use. For example, google is synomous with rapid data search and is in common use as a verb. Not only is Apple a very well known computer brand but it has also become the name of a certain type of fruit!

          50

          • #
            sophocles

            I’ve never had a BM. I’ve never had an AFFC (American Fast Food Chain) ‘branded’ burger ever. I can’t say I’ve never had a hamburger; I’ve had a (very) few of the local varieties … last time I had one of those must be in the late 1970s.

            I don’t think I’ve been missing out on anything. I just like nutricious flavoursome food and I enjoy cooking. :-)

            50

          • #
            MudCrab

            foot long
            subway

            Speaking of which, if you are ever feeling in a childish mood and want to annoy ‘sandwich technicians’, ask for your next subway in metric sizes.

            “One 30cm sub, please”

            From personal experience they rarely see the funny side.

            What can I say? I am a horrible person :D

            110

          • #
            Annie

            No, it’s Volvo!

            10

  • #
    Steve of Cornubia

    Now there’s a guy who lives up to his initials.

    50

  • #
    Steve of Cornubia

    Apart from it being utter nonsense, and allowing for the fact that Electricity Bill is an economic dunce, I can’t quite get my head around, “… there’s a cost to not eating the Big Macs.”

    Wut?

    So, in order for this analogy to work, we have to believe that Maccas will charge you for NOT eating their burgers?

    You know, a craftily-constructed analogy can be a useful device, but if all you do is torture logic, invent a whole new universe, use a random word sequence and then rearrange it to make it less understandable …

    60

    • #
      joseph

      It’s a little mysterious . . . . I think he’s saying that to walk away from a habit can be difficult, and it’s to be interpreted as being a cost, and in this case also as an investment in a better health outcome.

      30

  • #
    Another Ian

    More help for Bill in his muddle

    “Skeptical scientist hijacks AOC Congressional climate hearing”


    Climate Statistician Dr. Caleb Rossiter: ‘We are trying to save the people of the planet from the people ‘saving the planet.’

    AOC “seemed to recognize that Rossiter’s presence, and incendiary claims, had become central to a hearing that was not supposed to be about coal.”

    Rossiter to Congress: “Extreme weather events such as cyclones, floods, droughts and tornadoes are not increasing in incidence or lives lost. Indeed, the global mortality from all weather-related natural disasters declined by 99 percent while the population trebled after 1920, thanks to improved economies and technologies. Food production and calorie consumption per capita continue to increase, thanks to the green revolution, increased CO2 fertilization and longer growing seasons. Fossil fuels contribute enormously to the production, safe storage and transport of food and thus to human nutrition.” ”

    (My bold)

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/05/01/skeptical-scientist-hijacks-aoc-congressional-climate-hearing/

    100

  • #
    Penguinite

    Bill’s spinners are so dizzy at the moment they thought this catchy little analogy about obesity and hamburgers would slip-by without notice? Silly Billy

    80

  • #
    • #

      The gradual dulling of YouTube will have to have its effect on revenues. Still, we have to ask ourselves if the giant corporations have a different focus these days.

      Let’s just fantasise that there is a federal reserve somewhere that is neither federal nor a reserve, but which has the power to conjure money from nothing and make interest rates go up and down. What if the financial institutions which have representation in this reserve-without-reserves should have past/future members sitting at or near the top of numerous governments? Most governments, even. (I’m just making this up for fun now!)

      It would be necessary to park invented money somewhere other than in the cost of a carton of eggs and loaf of bread. What about parking the money in mega-businesses which do favours to governments, and in governments which do favours to mega-businesses? Why even bother with distinctions between governments and mega-businesses? Gillette and Audi can take hits for the government without worrying too much about silly old sales. What goes around comes around, right? And many a shaver or car CEO has made it to Secretary of State or even higher. Just the papacy remains out of reach.

      Couldn’t these good folks also conjure a corporation by arranging enormous share purchases, especially of companies engaged in the global farming of data? So profits no longer need to be made, a mighty retailer can operate for years on line and gobble up small retailers and shop-front sellers who need to make profits by the month or even week. Of course, that mighty retailer would have to be mighty friendly to the other mighties.

      The media (both flavours) will make sure the left love the collectivism and centralisation, and that the right are having an Ayn Rand wet dream. Everybody happy!

      50

  • #
    • #
      Ross

      Westfarmers obviously see a business opportunity in this –it does not necessarily mean they think electric cars are a good thing or that they support AGW. They could just think there are plenty of people might want to buy electric cars to make them feel good and so if Westfarmers car find a way to profit from it they will. Also Lithium can be used for much more than just electric car batteries.

      50

    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      Oh yes Ross, the move into Lithium is not driven by any ideology apart from capitalism.

      38

      • #
        AndyG55

        “the move into Lithium is not driven by any ideology…. “ (meant as sarcasm, right, fits.)

        At least now you are ADMITTING that EV and “climate change” are NOTHING but an ideology.

        Well done, Fitz.. maybe there is a vague flicker of real activity in your mind
        (other than mindless anti-fact AGW regurgitation.)

        91

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          if Science is an ideology, then you might have a point.

          17

          • #
            AndyG55

            And then you struck out again. Poor fitz.

            There is zero science that mandates the use of EVs EXCEPT the “climate change” ideology. !

            Without the anti-science religious fakery of the anti-CO2 AGW agenda/idiotology, EVs would not even be considered except as a toy.

            31

          • #
            AndyG55

            Without the fake anti-CO2 political nonsense, Elon Musk would not have been able to con the US government out of money for this favourite toy, and billions of dollars would not have been wasted on reviving an old and inadequate technology.

            31

    • #
      el gordo

      Mr Fitz this story is exactly one year old and I would like your opinion.

      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-30/business-council-to-ramp-up-role-in-politics/9710190

      40

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Looks like the BCA should have pulled it’s collective head in, does it not?

        42

        • #
          el gordo

          Its a victory for Getup.

          50

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            The BCA should have stuck to the ‘behind closed doors’ approach, I would not call it a victory for Getup, more of an own goal. Like the question posed yesterday – climate action is now considered a cost of business, and business seems to be accepting that position. Of course they would like that cost to be externalised if at all possible, but to keep their shareholders happy they will make those commitments if they have to. The BCA should have read the tea leaves on this and modified its position accordingly.

            34

            • #
              AndyG55

              The ONLY reason why this idiocy called “climate action” needs to be considered is because of the constant harping, whinging, smearing of the likes of GetUp and other low-life climate activists.

              Coping with “climate action” certainly has become a cost of business: electricity costs, social costs if you dare to go against the leftist meme.

              Not being one of the “climate crowd” has become almost a religious based stigma, and open the company up to activists, smearing and all the other standard marxist/socialist tricks.

              As you so often prove, fits, there is absolutely zero need for any real “action on climate”, whatever nonsense that might contrive to be.

              The sooner people wake up to the FACT that they have been CONNED, and start to fight back, the better for the planet and for human civilisation.

              The BCA should grow some balls and stand up against this leftist totalitarian nonsense.

              52

          • #
            Dave

            Peter:

            “climate action is now considered a cost of business”

            Really? It’s a government regulation cost, a red tape item.

            It is NOT a direct cost!

            90

    • #
      AndyG55

      BCA: 30 “interviewed”, 10 “reviewing their stance”

      And its all to do with noisy disruptive “activist pressure”,

      “We understand that in response to activist pressure some companies are reviewing their membership of industry associations,” “

      DOH. at least read your links first, Fitz

      As you well know, there is absolutely zero scientific evidence that human emissions of CO2 have affected the climate I any way whatsoever.

      82

      • #
        • #
          AndyG55

          “No but temperatures are still very high.”

          WRONG !

          They are barely a degree or so (Celcius) above the coldest period in 10,000 years.

          Below the MWP, Further below the RWP and further again below the Holocene optimum.

          They are still very much on the COOL side for this interglacial.

          42

      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        yep – but Rio Tinto, BHP, Westpac and now Telstra which has”commenced an alignment review of our key industry memberships in relation to climate change” – explain how ‘activists’ changes those 4.

        28

        • #
          AndyG55

          Well its not due to any actual SCIENCE, is it Fits. !

          You are STILL totally lacking in any science to back up this very strange anti-life, anti-human-progress RELIGION that seems to be taking over the minds and wallets of so many people.

          BHP, Rio, Westpac, Telstra.. which is it…

          affected by activists or BY MONEY ! ;-)

          62

        • #
          AndyG55

          And yes, Fits, it is very much to do with “activism” and not being “seen” to be a realist about science, and thus being “labelled” as a “denier company”, because the leftist agenda might affect their bottom line…

          The whole AGW scam is about socialist totalitarian ACTIVISM, smearing and bullying those companies that don’t go along with it…

          … and the sooner people and companies wake up to that FACT and stop cow-towing and wimping to it, and fighting back instead, the better.

          62

        • #
          AndyG55

          “commenced an alignment review of our key industry memberships in relation to climate change””

          This very sentence clearly illustrates the very FACT of smearing and bullying as posted in the previous post.

          They are “aligning” themselves to avoid problems…

          NOTHING to do with any actual science, because that science doesn’t actually exist (as you constantly prove)

          62

  • #
    pat

    hey, Bill, enjoy some of this:

    1 May: NY Post: Humans will eat maggot sausages as a meat alternative: scientists
    by Hannah Sparks
    “One hot dog, please — heavy on the maggots.”
    Food scientists at the University of Queensland in Brisbane, Australia are incorporating insects such as maggots and locusts into a range of specialty foods, including sausage, as well as formulating sustainable insect-based feeds for the livestock themselves…

    “An overpopulated world is going to struggle to find enough protein unless people are willing to open their minds, and stomachs, to a much broader notion of food,” says meat science professor Dr. Louwrens Hoffman. “Would you eat a commercial sausage made from maggots? What about other insect larvae and even whole insects like locusts? The biggest potential for sustainable protein production lies with insects and new plant sources.”…READ ON
    https://nypost.com/2019/05/01/humans-will-eat-maggot-sausages-as-a-meat-alternative-scientists/

    Qld Uni punching above its weight…again.

    80

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Yep and im a reptile! Yummy.

      40

    • #
      Annie

      No thanks.

      50

    • #

      Same doomsayer failed message of Malthus, Keynes Ehrlich. But what will take us back to The Futile Ages is destroying the very things that ended famine in the West.

      Since the 20th century, famine in the western world resulting from climate variability has become a thing of the past. The West’s development of the steam engine as well as other revolutions in technology and the ingenuity applied to daily work on the farm, has enabled food production to keep pace with population growth. The last European famine due to climate was in 1866-68 in Finland and Northern Sweden. Destroy that productivity via costly inefficient energy replacing ol’ king coal, seeking to reduce CO2, vital plant food of crops, to 220ppm where plants fail to thrive, allowing the UN Agenda 21 massive land grab to herd people, farmers, into cities so The New World Order globalists can ‘manage’the land as wild life zones, not open to cits, now that’s where food security will threatened in the misnomer of Suss-stain-debility. – A serf.

      40

      • #
        Kratoklastes

        Key thing about Malthus is that before he ever put quill to paper, there was abundant evidence that his thesis was nonsense.

        The British Agricultural Revolution was in full swing by the time Malthus wrote his “An Essay on the Principle of Population”, and as a result food production had been growing faster than population for over a century.

        Malthus had the typical ‘static expectations’ often observed in catastrophists: he failed to think about technological change. But apart from that, he catastrophised without checking if he was starting from a stupid premise.

        Neo-Malthusians like Erlich and the Cult of Thermaggeddon are just as wrong.

        20

    • #
      Another Ian

      Pat

      Have they checked for heavy metals contamination?

      20

      • #
        Environment Skeptic

        From Another Ian
        “Pat

        Have they checked for heavy metals contamination?”

        And i would like to add…have they checked for bacillus Subtilis..

        30

  • #
    John

    Oh what a fine mess Stan – sorry Bill – will get us into this time.
    I am totally depressed especially the fact that Rob Oakeshott is favourite to take the seat of Cowper. Can you bear it!
    There is only one consoling fact for me if Labor get their hands on our taxes as the bookies predict and the certainty that our economy will be decimated.
    And that is: no matter what they do they cannot create more cyclones, they cannot kill off polar bears, they cannot drown the Pacific Islands and they cannot make snow disappear. And I am sure that they will be severely held to account by the likes of Jo Nova, Andrew Bolt, Rowan Dean and co and the hundreds of thousands of well informed sceptics that exchange facts and views on social media.

    121

    • #
      Hanrahan

      Neither party will get a clear majority in the Senate and I think there will be more rightish cross-benchers than Rudd had to negotiate with.

      We may be saved by the unrepresentative swill. :)

      50

  • #
    Craig

    Lord, the guy is a f***wit. I know you don’t like this language Jo, but he is an utter and complete imbecile

    10

  • #
    pat

    2 May: RenewEconomy: South Australia solar farms switch off as prices fall below zero
    by Giles Parkinson
    The two biggest solar farms in South Australia were switched off for long periods this week as wholesale market prices fell below zero – the result, apparently, of new “zero price clauses” in power purchase contracts.
    As RenewEconomy reported on Tuesday, and updated on Wednesday (LINK), wholesale prices in South Australia fell below zero for extended periods on Tuesday (nearly six hours), and on Wednesday (nearly four hours).
    This was the result of high wind and solar output, as well as relatively low demand, and export limits (down to 50MW) on the main link to Victoria because of maintenance works, which meant that excess renewable production could not be traded interstate…

    The Bungala One and the semi-complete Bungala 2 projects cut output from around 1030am, ahead of the anticipated zero pricing event, while the newly-complete Tailem Bend solar farm cut power off on both Tuesday and Wednesday from around 11am as the prices hit zero. Both projects were offline for nearly six hours on Wednesday.
    Both the 220MW Bungala projects and the 95MW Tailem Bend projects have long term power purchase agreements with Orign Energy and Snowy Hydro respectively…

    In the case of Tailem Bend, that must have been frustrating because the solar farm only reached full commercial operations, and permission to operate at full capacity, on April 29, the day before the zero pricing events…
    For the moment, installations like the Tesla big battery operated by Neoen at Hornsdale have been having a party this week, getting paid to top up when the prices go negative, and then selling into the grid when prices rise again. As some industry analysts have noted. this is a great opportunities for household solar and “visual power plants”, as well as charging electric vehicles.
    https://reneweconomy.com.au/south-australia-solar-farms-switch-off-as-prices-fall-below-zero-26168/

    20

  • #
    pat

    1 May: NewcastleHerald: AAP: Shorten tours solar farm clouded by costs
    by Rebecca Gredley
    As Labor leader Bill Shorten toured a solar farm in South Australia, the storm cloud hovering over the cost of his climate plan continued to brew.
    Mr Shorten visited the SSE Solar Farm outside Adelaide on Wednesday with Labor’s energy spokesman Mark Butler.
    The pair later met with British billionaire Sanjeev Gupta at his Whyalla steelworks. Mr Gupta says electric vehicles will be commonplace in Australia without the need for government subsidies…

    But it’s the ambitious 45 per cent emissions reduction target which has voters looking for the finer detail.
    Mr Shorten says it’s impossible to cost the plan as businesses will be in control of how they reduce pollution.
    Mr Butler says Labor has had “deep engagement with the business community” to develop the party’s policy.
    Business groups have told Labor they want the safeguard mechanism – which was introduced by the Liberal government – to continue…
    And that’s where the big question arises, with Mr Shorten saying he hasn’t made assumptions on how many permits will be bought as it “will depend on price”…

    “It’s very important for Australians to know what the cost is of a change of government,” (PM Morrison) told reporters in Perth.
    “You can’t tell other people to do the math.”…

    While in the South Australian capital (Shorten) promised to unlock the renewable energy potential of the Spencer Gulf if he wins the election…
    https://www.theherald.com.au/story/6099295/shorten-tours-solar-farm-clouded-by-costs/?cs=7576

    20

  • #
    Another Ian

    Email just received

    “clearing sales in New South Wales | Gumtree Australia Free …

    https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-nsw/clearing+sales/page-2/k0l3008839

    Huge Clearing sale 2 day Auction Vintage trucks tractors & Tank Negotiable To include running Running Centurion Tank: Mark 5-1 powered by 680 horse power, British built 1950.

    Should we be anticipating a Labor Government and taking precautions?

    It saw service in Vietnam”

    50

  • #

    The analogy between personal diet and personal CO2 emissions falls at the first hurdle. What you eat may affect your health, so changing from a very poor diet to a well-balanced diet may improve your health. CO2 emissions are claimed to be harmful to the long term health of the planet. But cutting personal emissions will make no difference, as any alleged impact is global. It is only by collectively cutting emissions that the global aims will be achieved, and most countries are not willing to constrain their emissions.

    40

    • #
      Environment Skeptic

      There are more than one of us :) …it is said that the number of bacteria in our bodies outnumber human cells by 10 to one.

      50

  • #
    Bruce Donaldson Scott

    Thank you Jo, but how are we going to stop the cradle to the grave indoctrination beginning in pre school child minding ??

    80

  • #
    Serge Wright

    I was listening to Shorten the other day continuing his rant on how Australia NOT acting on climate change would cost us far more than acting, and I started wondering, considering the staggering costs of action, how did Shorten arrive at this conclusion ?

    Assuming for one minute that CC is real and caused by CO2…

    If you consider Australia only emits 1.3% of global carbon emissions, then by logical conclusion, we can only offset a maximum of 1.3% of the effects of climate change. This means that almost 99% of the effects of climate change on Australia can only be mitigated by overseas countries, assuming they all choose to reduce 100% of their emissions.

    Therefore, by logical conclusion, the absolute best economic outcome for Australia would be every other country acting on CC, whilst we do nothing. Conversely, the worst economic outcome for Austraia would be if we tried to remove all of our 1.3% contribution, whilst the rest of the world did nothing.

    To assess the current “real” situation, If you consider that the majority of emissions (~70%) come from developing countries that have no Paris obligations and that these emissions are growing at a rapid rate, and only 30% of emissions are from developed nations, which have remained flat since 1980, it’s obvious that any actions by the few developed nations such as ourselves will absolutely come at a much greater cost than any benefit, because the majority of the effects of CC will eventuate anyway, regardless of how much of your children’s and grandchildrens money Shorten might spend.

    Obviosly Bill Shorten is not toO clever, because he has concluded the complete opposite as true. I wonder if any journalists will point out this obvious flaw in his logic and if they do, would Shorten be smart enough to understand ?

    21

  • #
    pat

    1 May: SMH: Gas chief McCormack says renewables on grid’s fringe will be ‘dusted’
    By Cole Latimer
    The head of Australian gas pipeline monopoly APA, Mick McCormack, says renewable investments on the grid’s fringes will be “dusted” as he backed hydrogen gas as the next major source of power.
    A flood of power from large scale wind and solar generation on the frontiers of the grid have been cut back by the energy market operator because it caused excess loads coming into the system at the same time. This has resulted in a number of renewable projects and investments becoming less financially viable.

    “There’s a lot of money going into the renewables sector right now and a lot of it is going to be dusted,” APA chief executive Mr McCormack said during a Macquarie Group conference on Wednesday.
    “There are issues with getting that [renewable] power into the grid. It puts pressure on the grid.
    “People are starting to realise now that you can put all the generating capacity you like but [it means little] if you don’t have the transmission lines to connect it, who’s paying for that?”

    Mr McCormack said the Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO) had warned of a mismatch between the rising levels of wind and solar at the boundary of the grid and its ability to cope with excess power at times of low demand.
    “You’ve got AEMO scaling back because of these geography issues, it’s just a fact. If you put a 1000 megawatts [of generation] at the back of Bourke then there has to be a cost for getting that into the network…the grid connection has to scale it back,” he said.

    Earlier this year, AEMO cut the price AGL’s 200 megawatt Silverton wind farm near Broken Hill in NSW could receive for its power to about 80 cents in the dollar and reduced the level of electricity it can feed into the grid by a quarter.
    It also slashed the 88 megawatt Bannerton Solar Farm’s earnings to around 80 cents for every dollar’s worth of energy generated.

    However, Mr McCormack said the shift towards renewable power was inevitable and that gas – particularly hydrogen – would play a greater role in the energy mix to support wind and solar generation.
    “In the next five to 10 years, green gas, hydrogen [will become a power source] it’s almost like a magic pudding,” McCormack said…
    “Whatever happens politically, you’re going to have gas to back up the network – you can take coal out of it – but you can’t have renewables without some support and it’ll be years before batteries can come in.”…

    He said hydrogen would play an increasingly important role as future gas exploration hotspots like the Beetaloo Basin in the Northern Territory and the Galilee in Queensland were still years away from being developed.
    “On Beetaloo, I wouldn’t want to pour a bucket of cold water on everyone’s expectations, it could be 10-plus years, the Galilee Basin five to seven years [until gas flows from these basins],” he said.
    https://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/gas-chief-mccormack-says-renewables-on-grid-s-fringe-will-be-dusted-20190501-p51j24.html

    10

    • #
      Andrew McRae

      “People are starting to realise now that you can put all the generating capacity you like but [it means little] if you don’t have the transmission lines to connect it, who’s paying for that?”

      Keen readers who want to inform themselves of how far most places in Australia are away from major electricity transmissions lines can use this rather handy interactive map from Geoscience Australia.
      http://gaservices.ga.gov.au/site_7/rest/services/Proximity_To_Transmission_Infrastructure_Lines_WM/MapServer?f=jsapi

      The shortest interval shown here is 10km. You’ll find in the middle of the Western Desert is a place 720km from the nearest HV transmission line. There’s a place on Cape York tip almost as far. Puts the transmission costs in this big country into perspective.

      30

  • #
    pat

    1 May: BBC: UK Parliament declares climate change emergency
    MPs have approved a motion to declare an environment and climate emergency.
    This proposal, which demonstrates the will of the Commons on the issue but does not legally compel the government to act, was approved without a vote.
    Environment Secretary Michael Gove acknowledged there was a climate “emergency” but did not back Labour’s demands to declare one.
    The declaration of an emergency was one of the key demands put to the government by environmental activist group Extinction Rebellion, in a series of protests over recent weeks…
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48126677

    1 May: New Yorker: Notes from a Remarkable Political Moment for Climate Change
    By Bill McKibben
    O Wednesday, the British House of Commons, led by the Conservative Party, voted to declare that the planet was in a “climate emergency.” The day before, a CNN poll found that, in the United States, Democratic voters care more about climate change than about any other issue in the upcoming Presidential election…

    Having followed the issue closely since I wrote my first book about climate change, thirty years ago, I think I can say that we’re in a remarkable moment, when, after years of languishing, climate concern is suddenly and explosively rising to the top of the political agenda. Maybe, though not certainly, it is rising fast enough that we’ll get real action…

    But this third climate moment is rooted in broad movements, not élite opinion, and so it feels different. Right now, a group of young people is touring the country pushing for action on a Green New Deal…
    Meanwhile, much of central London was shut down for a week by a group called Extinction Rebellion, which camped in the streets, Occupy-style (and had the good sense to eventually leave to fight again another day). And, perhaps most remarkably, school students around the world have been staging daylong strikes, following the lead of Greta Thunberg, a Swedish teen-ager who in recent days has met with the Pope and addressed both the European Parliament and the British Parliament…

    Many streams contributed to this tide. Ten years of movement-building, often led by those most at risk, laid a foundation (the young people of the Sunrise Movement who have championed the Green New Deal cut their teeth in the campus fossil-fuel-divestment movement). Scientists sharpened their analysis (last year’s report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change was the first to set a deadline—of 2030—for being fully underway with the fundamental transformation necessary to meet the targets set in the Paris climate accords). Donald Trump’s foolery heightened apprehensions (one senses that even some of his most loyal supporters doubt that global warming is a “hoax manufactured by the Chinese”). And nature itself provided the strongest boost: flood after drought after firestorm, in every corner of the planet, pierced public consciousness…

    So, what now? Movements will continue to ramp up the pressure. Groups such as 350.org (which I helped found) are confident that adults will shortly start responding to the calls from Thunberg and her peers to back them up with strikes of their own…
    https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/notes-from-a-remarkable-political-moment-for-climate-change

    10

    • #
      Serge Wright

      1 May: BBC: UK Parliament declares climate change emergency

      You can image the news headlines:
      “Climate emergency declared in UK after temperatures reach double figures …. “

      20

  • #
    pat

    behind paywall:

    2 May: UK Times: How to make the law fight climate change
    Campaigners are focusing on small, local battles and cases to help the UK reach its goals
    by Edward Fennell
    Advice on the UK’s long-term emissions targets is published today by the Committee on Climate Change. It should make for grim reading in the light of recent predictions that the Earth’s temperature is on track to increase by 1.5C between 2030 and 2052, which doubtless explains the sense of urgency from Extinction Rebellion and Greta Thunberg, the Swedish teenage campaigner, in calls for drastic cuts in pollution.
    Greta claims that politicians have known for decades about the threat to the planet, but have got away with not doing anything. It is a sweeping assertion and not entirely true. The Climate Change Act 2008 — which committed to reducing greenhouse gas emissions by 80 per cent below the 1990 level by 2050 — is seen by many as…
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/how-to-make-the-law-fight-climate-change-7nz9thtvr

    1 May: Daily Mail: Heathrow campaigners lose High Court battle to block expansion plan paving way for third runway at Britain’s busiest airport
    •They argued it would cause harm to the climate and health issues for locals
    •Government said new runway is ‘critical’ and would boost the UK economy
    •Judges said opposing arguments were based on ‘merits’ and not ‘legality’
    By Joseph Curtis
    The campaigners had argued that the expansion was unlawful because it did not take into account the Paris Agreement – which seeks to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
    But the judges held the Paris Agreement was not part of UK law and thus did not apply…
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6980037/Heathrow-campaigners-lose-High-Court-battle-against-runway.html

    30

  • #
    pat

    ***tens of billions per year! what would that be – 20bn, 90bn?

    2 May: BBC: Climate change: UK ‘can cut emissions to nearly zero’ by 2050
    By Roger Harrabin
    The UK should lead the global fight against climate change by cutting greenhouse gases to nearly zero by 2050, a report says.
    The Committee on Climate Change (CCC) maintains this can be done at no added cost from previous estimates…
    Some say the proposed 2050 target for near-zero emissions is too soft, but others will fear the goal could damage the UK’s economy…

    The main author Chris Stark told me: “This report would have been absolutely inconceivable just a few years ago. People would have laughed us out of court for suggesting that the target could be so high.”
    The main change, he said, was the huge drop in the cost of renewable energy prompted by government policies to nurture solar and wind power…

    ***He said the BBC’s David Attenborough climate documentary, protests by Extinction Rebellion and speeches by the teenage campaigner Greta Thunberg had persuaded the public that the problem needed urgent action…

    The cost of the new proposal, the CCC estimates, is ***tens of billions of pounds a year and may reach to 1-2% of national wealth (as measured by GDP) each year by 2050. That doesn’t count the benefits of decarbonisation – such as cleaner air and water…

    Meanwhile, Dr Shaun Fitzgerald, director of The Royal Institution, said: “I am a massive supporter of efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
    But he added: “Will people be prepared to set their winter time thermostat to 19C? Asking people to put up with a reduction in comfort/quality is going to be difficult.”
    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-48122911

    20

  • #
    pat

    1 May: CNN: Why Tesla is offering rock-bottom solar panel prices
    by Matt Egan
    Now Musk is trying to jump-start Tesla’s solar business with a simple strategy: Cutting costs. Sharply. Tesla has started selling solar panels and equipment for up to 41% less than the national average.
    “Tesla is likely hoping to use low prices to drive out competition and gain market share,” said Timothy Fox, vice president and research analyst at Clearview Energy Partners, an energy research firm.
    To make the cost cuts work, Tesla has standardized systems and begun to require customers to order solar panels online, the company told The New York Times this week…

    But some observers on Wall Street are skeptical that Tesla can pull off the strategy without eating into its already-shrinking bottom line. Profit margins in the solar industry are razor-thin.
    “It feels like a half-court shot,” said Dan Ives, an analyst at Wedbush Securities who recently downgraded his rating on Tesla…

    Tesla’s solar business, on the other hand, has shrunk by about 60%, according to Colin Rusch, senior research analyst at Oppenheimer & Co…
    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/05/01/investing/tesla-solar-panel-costs/index.html

    20

  • #
    pat

    original headline:

    U.K. Zero Carbon Emissions Plan See Electric Cars, Less Meat
    Bloomberg – 13h ago

    changed to the more dramatic:

    2 May: Bloomberg: Fly Less, Cut Meat, No Diesel: The U.K.’s Roadmap to Zero Carbon
    Government’s climate change adviser proposes measures that would touch most industries.
    By Jeremy Hodges; With assistance by Mathew Carr
    British people need to fly less, drive electric cars, eat little meat and turn their home thermostats down to 19 degrees Celsius (66 Fahrenheit) in order to rein in greenhouse gases damaging the planet.
    Those are the recommendations from the government’s official adviser on climate change and sketch out the toughest measures anywhere in the industrial world to rein in pollution. Drawn up by a panel including lawmakers, scientists, industry officials and analysts, their 277-page report also suggests a drastic overhaul for industry, agriculture and aviation…
    “We are not asking people to lead a miserable life,” John Gummer, former Conservative lawmaker who chairs the Committee on Climate Change, told reporters in London before the report was released on Thursday…

    While the committee won’t put an overall figure on the cost of its ambitions, it did set out the implications for a number of industries. Annual costs include:
    15 billion pounds for a switch to low-carbon heating.
    5 billion pounds to 10 billion pounds for further emissions limits on industry.
    2 billion pounds for changes to the way agriculture uses land, which is less than what the U.K. pays to support the EU Common Agricultural Policy.
    10 billion pounds to 20 billion pounds to remove emissions from the atmosphere, primarily paid by industries like aviation that can’t cut further.
    12 billion pounds to fund lower-carbon electricity.

    A big part of the assumptions made by the committee hinge on the U.K. fully embracing technologies and fuel sources that either aren’t yet viable or economical. Those include carbon capture and storage, where pollution is sucked out of factory smokestacks and sequestered underground. It also wants to see hydrogen used both in fuel cells and as storage for energy — and as a greener form of gas…READ ALL
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-01/u-k-zero-carbon-emissions-plan-see-electric-cars-less-meat

    10

  • #
    pat

    on Paul Murray, Sky News, they are discussing Qld Labor govt turning down Adani’s plan for the black-throated finch, delaying Carmichael mine for at least another 12 months.

    can’t find anything online as yet.

    30

  • #
    pat

    a couple of editorials in their entirety, but you need to scroll down to read them, because the firing of Gavin Williamson takes precedence:

    2 May: UK Sun editorial: Green hysteria
    ARE you ready to scrap your car, make your home colder, halve your meat intake and stop flying on holiday? We didn’t think so.
    And that is the problem with the ­“climate emergency” hysteria we are all expected to succumb to.
    Politicians may be browbeaten by swampies blocking London’s streets, or the aisles in Waitrose, or naive kids bunking off school to raise eco banners.
    The public isn’t having it.
    Especially when sensible measures like fracking — to switch us to cleaner gas from oil and coal — were strangled at birth by those same spineless MPs to appease the scaremongering mob.
    Sure, we could abandon a century of progress, ditch flights and turn carbon-neutral. It will make no difference unless the rest of the planet does too.
    And ordinary people, both here and elsewhere, aren’t up for it.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8984993/gavin-williamson-sacking-theresa-may-misstep/

    the workers’ paper!

    2 May: UK Mirror editorial: Play your part
    The warning from the Committee on Climate Change could not be starker: if we want to save the planet, we must cut greenhouse gas emissions.
    Let’s all do our bit by walking more, eating less meat and taking fewer flights
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/voice-mirror-gavin-williamson-should-14981532

    10

  • #
    pat

    the Green New Deal:

    VIDEO: 1 May: Sean Hannity: NOT A DRILL: Ocasio-Cortez Stunned by Her Own Garden, Says ‘Food That Comes from Dirt’ is ‘Magic’
    posted by Hannity Staff
    Controversial Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez left millions of Americans scratching their heads this week; saying she was “shook” and stunned by her own garden and declaring “food that comes out of the dirt” is “like magic.”
    “Look! Oh my god, look at this! I am shook. Honestly, gardening, food that comes out of dirt, it’s like magic. The tomatoes died though… This is so exciting!” said Ocasio-Cortez in her video…
    https://www.hannity.com/media-room/not-a-drill-ocasio-cortez-stunned-by-her-own-garden-says-food-that-comes-from-dirt-is-magic/

    20

  • #
    philthegeek

    From the Australian front page online.

    A Shorten Labor government would ‘beef up’ enforcement of section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act.

    Discuss or Cuss. :)

    34

    • #
      Annie

      Accidental green thumb there Phil. I think the present legislation is bad, it certainly doesn’t need ‘beefing up’.

      50

  • #
    philthegeek

    “A wealthy retiree relaxing on his luxury cruiser, complaining about losing his franking credit … OR … more money for our public schools and hospitals… YOU CHOOSE”.

    How dare the ABC choose such a one for their story on franking credits! Obvious bias doing this kind of nasty satire!

    24

  • #
    Nick Werner

    From an intentions perspective I can appreciate the margarine analogy.

    For the perspective of powering a country, a Tortoise and Hare analogy seems suitable. I live in Canada where the Solar Hare is dozing off or already asleep when he would be most useful. As for Windy Hare, he’s about as useful as solar but not as predictable.

    Harness them all together in a grid, then on average the Tortoises are burdened with dragging about two-thirds of the Hares along for the ride.

    40

  • #
    Maptram

    I presume Mr Shorten didn’t mention in his example, whether his fat friend ate his 10 big macs each day in one sitting, in other words one trip to Maccas each day (or delivery by Ubereats) or in several sittings throughout the day, thereby requiring several trips to the shop or several deliveries. Either way, unless he walked to the shop each trip, there are CO2 emissions from the collection or delivery vehicle, unless it’s an EV of course.

    20

  • #
    Maptram

    In his big mac analogy, Mr Shorten also overlooked the two litres of diet coke that probably goes with it. To an overweight 10 big mac a day eater, any diet coke would be as effective as the methods Shorten, and all the other climate change believers tell us, will stop climate change.

    30