JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Midweek Unthreaded

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Midweek Unthreaded, 9.4 out of 10 based on 15 ratings

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160 comments to Midweek Unthreaded

  • #
    Another Ian

    First comment at

    https://realclimatescience.com/2019/04/corruption-of-the-us-temperature-record/

    “After decades of research and hundreds of billions spent, the only area in which climate science has made great progress is the data tampering.”

    And

    “There is no longer any need for Monty Python’s Flying Circus. We now have CNN and the Democrats to provide a non-stop parody of reality.”

    https://realclimatescience.com/2019/04/planetary-saviors/#comments

    131

    • #
      TdeF

      Alexandria Occasional Cortex is the greatest gift to the Republicans. Doomsday scenarios. No flying. Catch a train to Hawaii. Stop using your cars. No hamburgers. Plus the world is going to end in 12 years. Again. Plus she is supported by so many Democrats. Donald Trump cannot believe his luck. Nor can I.

      122

      • #
        Dennis

        She does not want twins, she could not stand to be pregnant for 18 months.

        100

        • #
          glen Michel

          Surely she was joking…. ??

          10

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            THis is serious but…..ACTU Prez & Shortens “First Lady”…..if he becomes PM….

            https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/shortens-first-lady-has-him-firmly-under-her-thumb/news-story/7fda6999be23720ad02492bd500fb4aa

            “If Labor wins next month’s federal election, strap yourself in for a first lady like no other. She is really bossy, with a fashion sense more Soviet comrade than pearls, pink frocks and heels. And, if history is a clue to the future, she will get her way with the new prime minister more or less at will.

            “Move over, Chloe Shorten. Sally McManus will become the first lady to watch.
            …………………..
            “McManus ought to be a bit player in Australian politics. Unfortunately, Shorten has rewarded her chutzpah with power beyond her base. Her orchestrated protests today show she is already gloating over her new position as comrade-in-chief in a Shorten government.

            “To understand the dark influence McManus already has, and what that will mean in a Shorten Labor government, return to her first televised interview after she was appointed ACTU leader in 2017. Asked by Leigh Sales whether she believed in the rule of law, McManus said she did. Given that, asked Sales, will you as ACTU leader then distance yourself from the Construction Forestry Mining and Energy Union, which on 118 occasions has been found to have broken the law or acted in contempt of court?

            “McManus’s answer was firm: “There’s no way we’ll be doing that … I’ll tell you this, the CFMEU, when they’ve been fined for taking industrial action … it might be illegal industrial action according to our current laws but our current laws are wrong,” she told the ABC’s 7.30. McManus’s modus operandi is clear: when she decides that a section of a law is unjust, that law may be broken. It is the motto of an anarchist.

            20

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    I had an encouraging conversation with a cab driver. He was from Sri Lanka and we got talking about climate, and he mentioned power stations and health, but he was very clear about people suffering ill health due to proximity to airborne pollution from what is an industrial operation ( the power station). His take on it was that corruption had allowed people to live *too close* to power stations, and that was what lead to the ill health.

    We also talked about Germans economic suicide by the coming limiting of coal powered stations.

    I also went to great length to point out that 95% of our power comes from gas and coal, and 5% from renewables, and that shutting down coal and gas power means no economy and no jobs. He got that very clearly.

    So keep tlaking to people – generally it takes some persistence to break through the volumnious and glossy veneer of the mass produced polished excement they laughably call “news” in this country, but its worth it.

    The facts stand alone and can never be disputed, and its easier to let people draw thier own conclusions about how much the mass media lies to them, themselves.

    Even with Fast Charge Bill ( Shortonideas ) running around speaking nonsense, just keep speaking the facts about everything climate. Most people arent stupid, and the thing Australians hate more than anything else is being lied to and being made look fools, so the facts are your friend.

    170

    • #
      PeterS

      Yes I agree we should speak out but when I tried some to return back to the original beliefs. I then repeat my explanations the next time I see them at say a BBQ, which they take on board willingly again then forget later on yet again. It’s proof at least some people just don’t want to think for themselves and instead are so gullible to the MSM and political crap that’s flooding the scene in spite of the facts I keep spelling out. Let’s wait and see how the federal election pans out. It will be a major litmus test as to how many people are gullible enough to fall for the ALP+Greens who are the strongest on the renewables nonsense.

      91

    • #
      Hanrahan

      I also went to great length to point out that 95% of our power comes from gas and coal, and 5% from renewables,

      ATM [midday] wind is providing 2% [solar is doing OK] which means the states relying on free energy are paying over twice what Qld and NSW are, spot.

      60

    • #
      glen Michel

      You can’t convince some people no matter how conciliatory and factual you are.I’ve been told once I don’t own the facts( like sea water is alkaline) sheeessh! Reminds one of Monty python’ s 10 minute argument.

      40

  • #
    • #
      Kinky Keith

      Good post on item 2, the Earth’s thermal balance.

      The last item mentioned, Earth’s internal heat leaked, I think, amounts to about 0.1 watts/sq m.

      This type of analysis is never given to the public.

      31

  • #
    David Wojick

    Two U.S. (Democrat) House hearings today on climate change. Hours of nothing, viewable here:

    https://oversight.house.gov/legislation/hearings/the-need-for-leadership-to-combat-climate-change-and-protect-national-security

    Kerry’s never ending monologue. Aimed at stopping the Happer skeptical presidential committee.

    https://oversight.house.gov/legislation/hearings/climate-change-part-i-the-history-of-a-consensus-and-the-causes-of-inaction

    Skepticism labeled “misinformation” paid for by oil companies.

    The usual trash in big bags.

    70

    • #
      edwina

      I once saw Kerry on TV state that CO2 was a 2 inch thick blanket at the top of the atmosphere acting like the glass in a glasshouse. In short, he doesn’t have a clue. Many people, I believe, think that way. The term glasshouse I suppose is the reason.

      131

      • #
        EV Lank

        This is John Kerry’s science lecture in 2015………… “Try and picture a very thin layer of gases – a quarter-inch, half an inch, somewhere in that vicinity – that’s how thick it is. It’s in our atmosphere. It’s way up there at the edge of the atmosphere. And for millions of years – literally millions of years – we know that layer has acted like a thermal blanket for the planet – trapping the sun’s heat and warming the surface of the Earth to the ideal, life-sustaining temperature. Average temperature of the Earth has been about 57 degrees Fahrenheit, which keeps life going.”
        Physics CAN be tough!

        50

      • #
        John of Cloverdale, WA, Australia

        It was in Indonesia, talking in Jakarta. He even mentions that crook Maurice Strong.

        Try and picture a very thin layer of gases – a quarter-inch, half an inch, somewhere in that vicinity – that’s how thick it is. It’s in our atmosphere. It’s way up there at the edge of the atmosphere. And for millions of years – literally millions of years – we know that layer has acted like a thermal blanket for the planet – trapping the sun’s heat and warming the surface of the Earth to the ideal, life-sustaining temperature. Average temperature of the Earth has been about 57 degrees Fahrenheit, which keeps life going. Life itself on Earth exists because of the so-called greenhouse effect. But in modern times, as human beings have emitted gases into the air that come from all the things we do, that blanket has grown thicker and it traps more and more heat beneath it, raising the temperature of the planet. It’s called the greenhouse effect because it works exactly like a greenhouse in which you grow a lot of the fruit that you eat here.
        This is what’s causing climate change. It’s a huge irony that the very same layer of gases that has made life possible on Earth from the beginning now makes possible the greatest threat that the planet has ever seen.

        Video link

        30

      • #
        glen Michel

        On the other hand one can get a Purple Heart for scratchin a mozzies bite.

        20

      • #
        John of Cloverdale, WA, Australia

        Antony Watts has a post on his webpage with transcript and video of Kerry’s Jakarta speech.
        Link here: A must read: Why Secretary of State John Kerry Is Flat Wrong on Climate Change

        20

  • #
    el gordo

    El Nino remains an enigma.

    ‘CFAN’s 2019 ENSO forecast is for a transition away from El Niño conditions as the summer progresses. The forecast for Sept-Oct-Nov 2019 calls for 60% probability of ENSO neutral conditions, with 40% probability of weak El Niño conditions.’ wuwt

    60

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘The Bureau’s ENSO Outlook remains at El Niño ALERT. This means the chance of El Niño developing in 2019 is approximately 70%; around triple the normal likelihood.’ BoM

      50

      • #
        Graeme#4

        BOM will keep saying that an El Niño is expected right up until 23:59:59 on December 31st, then they will go quiet for a while, then start again the next year after a few months. They have been doing that for a few years now, and every year they have been wrong. Eventually they will strike it lucky.

        20

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      Why would anyone label Turbulence in the ocean “an Enigma”?

      The oceans are held in place by Earth’s gravity.

      They are disturbed into swirly moving patterns by the daily dose of Sunlight and the gravitational flux of the passing Moon.

      By its very name, turbulence, there’s a statement made that predicting swirl pattern locations isn’t an accurate science.

      That’s why it’s called weather Forecasting.

      KK

      61

      • #
        el gordo

        Predicting ENSO behaviour a year in advance would be a great help for the man on the land.

        CFAN and BoM are models in conflict.

        50

        • #
          Peter Fitzroy

          el gordo, a question for you. Is the ENSO powered by a relative temperature difference, or does it have to be an absolute one? I’ve looked, but I did not see any discussion around that, only that the gradient is important.

          23

          • #
            el gordo

            Not sure, I’ll follow it up

            Javier in comments at Climate Etc

            ‘The main driver of ENSO is the latitudinal temperature gradient. The steeper it becomes the more heat needs to be moved towards the poles through it and the more necessary Niños become.’

            He also said there were no El Ninos during the Holocene Climate Max and there are less now than during the LIA. I’m not happy with that, methinks La Nina ruled during the LIA.

            A strong El Nino allows more heat to escape into space, in effect its a global cooling signal.

            10

            • #
              Peter Fitzroy

              Thanks, it’s sometimes these little things that turn out to have big impacts

              11

              • #
                glen Michel

                Only that the pressure difference between Tahiti and Darwin which is high pressure flowing to low.stronger trades.SSTs and anomalies are important

                10

              • #
                el gordo

                ENSO epochs determined by temperature?

                “Over the last 1010 yr, the LD summer sea salt (LDSSS) record has exhibited two below-average (El Niño–like) epochs, 1000–1260 ad and 1920–2009 ad, and a longer above-average (La Niña–like) epoch from 1260 to 1860 ad.

                “Spectral analysis shows the below-average epochs are associated with enhanced ENSO-like variability around 2–5 yr, while the above-average epoch is associated more with variability around 6–7 yr.”

                https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/10.1175/JCLI-D-12-00003.1

                10

      • #
        glen Michel

        Hope it’s duration is short KK. Looking at the Indian Ocean for a cooling off Africa.

        30

  • #
    edwina

    Tanya Plibersek when asked how much CO2 was in the atmosphere did NOT know the answer. She is the deputy leader of the Labor Party and soon could be the deputy Prime Minister of Australia (yet Tanya Plibersek does NOT know how much CO2 is in the air!).

    Yet the Labor policy is much about reducing CO2. (yet Tanya Plibersek does NOT know how much CO2 is in the air!) i.e. with 45% renewable targets by 2030 (yet Tanya Plibersek does NOT know how much CO2 is in the air!), 50% electric cars by 2030 (yet Tanya Plibersek does NOT know how much CO2 is in the air, all coal fired power stations gone by then (yet Tanya Plibersek does NOT know how much CO2 is in the air!) , all coal exports stopped if they agree to the Greens Party (yet Tanya Plibersek does NOT know how much CO2 is in the air!) and many more effects from such policies.

    It is all to control Climate Change and warming of the earth (yet Tanya Plibersek does NOT know how much CO2 is in the air!). I would say most MPs and Senators and MPs in all states would be like Tanya Plibersek. i.e. probably do NOT have a clue about the only 400 parts per MILLION of the odorless, clear gas is in the air.

    Many think the soot which is black carbon from some sources is actually CO2 which is why CO2 is wrongly called Pollution. Actually, I think I would be right if I said that nearly ALL Australians, young and old, do NOT know how much CO2 is in the air.

    232

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Well yes, and Fast Charge Bill cant tell you how long it takes to charge an EV, how much power they use – and this guy is to rebuild the manufacturing industry?

      Scary….

      100

    • #
      robert rosicka

      The trolls here have no idea either but it’s a sad state of affairs that virtually all politicians when asked say the same thing “Scientists say the evidence is in” , well back what the Scientists say etc etc .

      71

      • #
        AndyG55

        Evidence???? roflmao.

        We have all seen that even the most rabid AGW trolls just CANNOT produce any actual scientific evidence that CO2 causes any warming

        They cannot produce one iota of evidence that an increase of atmospheric CO2 even up to 1000ppm would be anything BUT BENEFICIAL.

        131

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      Morning Edwina,
      I tried to do that in a submission to Column 8 in SMH, and actually had it published yesterday. And today there is a response:
      ” Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant and is a plant food, said Dave Beach (C8). He asked for a discussion and he got one. Among many replies, Brad Elliott of North Rocks got straight to the point: “Carbon does feed plants. Excess carbon traps heat and feeds climate change. BS feeds plants as well but diverts us from the truth.” ”

      I have drafted a reply, which I’ll review and maybe modify before sending back later today.
      (SMH is Sydney Morning Herald, NSW)
      cheers,
      Dave B

      91

      • #
        TdeF

        Plant food is a bit of an understatement. It is the only input unless you count water. Plants are made almost 99% from CO2 out of the air. Photosynthesis binds light to CO2 and water to form hydrated carbon dioxide, known as carbohydrate. All life comes from this and only from this. Plant food, all animal food, all cells, all insects, all animals, birds and fish, all bacteria. All CO2.

        80

        • #
          TdeF

          Reference
          Hydrogen 6%, Carbon 45%, Oxygen 45% for 96% by weight. Mainly CH2 and H2O.
          Nitrogen 2% to 98%.
          Then Potassium 1% as the only metal and we are at 99%
          The rest Calcium, magnesium, phosphorous, sulfur are most of the 0.9%
          Then very tiny chlorine, boron, Iron, Manganese, Zinc, Copper, Molybdenum for perhaps 0.1%

          Made from CO2 and N2 from their air and H2O from the air and soil. With a few trace metals.

          Food? No, plants can grow 99% from the air alone. CO2 is the plant.

          50

          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            Are you saying that the other 1-3% is unimportant? The 3% includes Nitrogen which has be be in a form that plants can assimilate, not the stuff in the air. without that 1-3% you do not have plants, so in relative terms all the elements are vital to making a plant. CO2 is a major feedstock, but it is only one of many.

            32

            • #
              AndyG55

              Nitrogen which has be be in a form that plants can assimilate, not the stuff in the air.

              A so-called biologist who has never heard of legumes and their symbiotic bacteria. WOW.

              There is plenty of Nitrogen available in the soil unless you grow nitrogen depleting plants year after year.

              But that is what fertilizers are for.

              10

      • #
        AndyG55

        Brad is nil-educated fool who in mouthing brain-washed mantra.

        Carbon does not feed plants, carbon dioxide does

        There is basically zero “carbon” in the atmosphere, and only 0.04% carbon dioxide

        Carbon dioxide DOES NOT trap heat, there is no mechanism that allows that, and there is no evidence that it does.

        Convection and the gravity based temperature/pressure gradient controls the movement of energy in the lower atmosphere.

        CO2 has absolutely zero measurable effect on the temperature/pressure gradient.

        Warming by atmospheric CO2 has never been observed or measured anywhere on the planet, it exists only in models.

        Just ask them to produce empirical scientific evidence of warming by increased atmospheric CO2.

        Even the most rabid AGW apostles (eg pfutz) are totally unable to put forward this evidence.

        20

      • #
        David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

        Morning all,
        I decided not to respond yesterday to your replies above, as I had sent off another contribution to Col8, hoping it would appear today. It hasn’t. So here it is:

        Thanks to Brad Elliott for his reply (Col8 Apr10), but his conversion of my “carbon dioxide” to “carbon” leads to confusion. They are not the same, the first is a gas, the second a solid. The gas is no more than a minor green house gas, but is one of only three components in photosynthesis, with water vapour and sunlight, which occurs in green leaves. So is a major plant food.
        He does seem to agree that CO2 is not a pollutant. Thank you.

        Dave Beach
        Cooyal

        There is more response to my original in today’s Col 8:

        The fallout for Dave Beach over his dictum: “Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant. It is a plant food. Please discuss,” (C8) continues. Karl Kruszelnicki of Maroubra thinks: “The BAF (Bulldust Asymmetry Factor, the multiplication factor of words/time needed to correct subtle inaccuracies and imprecision) is about 50-100, for Mr Beach’s comment.” Ian Hamilton of Donbogan adds: “Plants thrive on CO2 but, if they have too much, they grow too fast, providing crops with lower nutrition than normal. Discuss.”

        Again I’ve developed a reply which I’ll review before sending.
        Cheers,
        Dave B

        20

    • #
      Dennis

      She has spoken about the country of Africa a few times.

      40

    • #
      EV Lank

      Tanya thought Tony Abbott’s London climate speech in 2015 was “actually just weird stuff from the former prime minister” https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/oct/10/tony-abbotts-climate-change-speech-loopy-says-labor

      I suspect she read up on the topic back then!

      30

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Its also a possibility that having destroyed a lot of our manufacturing industry, like showing a desperate drowning man a life preserver who will lunge at anything, they are using this EV & hydrogen nonsense as a reboot of the old technique of tearing down and rebuilding it into a new but messed up and corrupted “image” of EV nirvana……

    Seem to be Labor appear to be targetting their voting base with what seems to be a mirage.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-10/labor-tens-of-millions-to-resurrect-australian-car-industry/10985458

    “Tens of millions of dollars will be offered to the world’s automotive giants to resurrect the Australian car industry, centred around manufacturing electric and hydrogen-powered cars, under a yet-to-be unveiled Labor plan.

    Key points:

    * Labor to offer millions to automotive giants to resurrect Australia’s car industry
    * The focus will be on producing electric and hydrogen-powered vehicles
    * Car maker research and development grants to come from a $1 billion fund

    “The ABC has learned the Labor Party has been quietly working on the plan for the past couple of years, with high-ranking executives from the United States travelling to Australia to discuss “co-investment” options with Opposition figures.
    It is understood Labor plans to offer major carmakers research and development grants from a $1 billion fund aimed at re-stocking Australia’s manufacturing sector.

    “Labor industry spokesman Kim Carr argues that the car industry is far from dead in Australia, with thousands of skilled workers, automotive engineers and designers ready for deployment as part of an existing “ecosystem”.

    And another fish hook to get caught on :

    “There are 65 firms still registered with the Automotive Transformation Scheme, which will distribute $1 billion between 2016 and 2020 to motor vehicle producers and component manufacturers who invest in research and development and innovation.”

    31

  • #
    toorightmate

    But she does realize the hardship her poor husband has been through.
    Never mind the young people who died or were turned into vegetables by his heroin trading activities.
    She is scum.

    100

  • #
    Travis T. Jones

    March 12, 2019, RBA Deputy Governor, Guy Debelle claims UN/CSIRO/BoM doomsday global warming must be factored into finance decisions like interest rates:

    “The United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) report documents that 1 degree of warming has already occurred from pre-industrial levels as a result of human activities.

    This volatility is highlighted in the first graph in the recent Bureau of Meteorology (BoM) and CSIRO report, State of the Climate. (2018)”

    https://www.rba.gov.au/speeches/2019/sp-dg-2019-03-12.html

    Wait.

    2010: In late 2007, the UN-IPCC was even awarded the Nobel Peace Prize jointly with former US Vice President Al Gore.

    Since then, the UN-IPCC has experienced a dramatic fall from grace.

    There is already a consensus today that deep-seated reforms are needed at the UN-IPCC.”

    https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/climate-catastrophe-a-superstorm-for-global-warming-research-a-686697.html

    ^ ^ ^
    What evidence can the RBA produce showing there has been any reforms at the UN-IPCC?

    Despite this evidence the UN-IPCC ‘science’ is flawed, Guy Debelle is still quoting the same temperature deviances and targets 10+ years later.

    Without any acknowledgement of the failures before and reformed improvements?

    The UN is still issuing failed doomsday tipping point and moving them at will …

    2017: We Only Have 3 Years Left to Prevent a Climate Disaster, Scientists Warn

    The group, led by former United Nations climate chief and Paris Agreement architect Christiana Figueres, warns in a piece published in the journal Nature …

    http://time.com/4839039/climate-change-christiana-figueres-g20/

    2019: The “12 years” date you’ve heard comes from a special report requested by the United Nations, which looks at the impacts of global warming at 1.5°C above pre-industrial levels.

    https://theconversation.com/climate-change-a-climate-scientist-answers-questions-from-teenagers-113530

    Crazy.

    This can’t end well.

    60

    • #
      AndyG55

      They are becoming DESPERATE to get the UN global governance in place before the whole AGW scam collapses due to the coming cooling trend

      They KNOW its coming..

      132

  • #
    Reed Coray

    Okay, who’s been messing with my heat traps? For three weeks in a row I’ve set about 100 heat traps–large CO2-filled balloons with visible-light transparent surfaces surrounding a light-absorbing plate–and each week when I go to harvest the heat, I find it has been stolen. I spent good money purchasing the balloons/plates/CO2 gas and beaucoup time setting my traps. To have some scoundrel rob me of the fruits of my labor is discouraging. What is the world coming to? But I guess if the thief is heat deprived, he/she may make better use of the heat than I would. All-in-all, though, I’m thinking of selling my heat-trapping farm to the highest bidder. Any takers out there?

    90

    • #
      RickWill

      This is an impressive scheme. I bet you could get a phenomenal amount of government funding for a power generator based on the heat trapping ability of CO2. It has so many selling points and you could easily claim 97% of scientists support the scheme.

      Imagine the headline – Engineer Invents Power Generator Using Heat Trapping Property of CO2

      The heat engine at the heart of the system relies on the differential temperature between the balloon, as a result of trapped heat in the CO2, and the ground level air temperature. The heat can be used directly for household heating requirements or to operate a low pressure heat engine to turn an electric generator.

      The system is 4 times more efficient than solar panels, 3 times more efficient than wind turbines. In addition to the high efficiency, its major advantage is that it works 24 hours a day so provides continuous energy. Modelling shows one balloon 2 metres in diameter suspended 20 metres above any house can power the house night and day.

      Modelling for large scale installations demonstrate a balloon farm occupying 100 hectares using 20 metre diameter balloons on a 40 metre grid could power 2.4 million homes.

      80

  • #
    RickWill

    Using the term “renewable” applied to wind and solar generators is a misnomer. Worse, it concedes a key point without debate; wind and solar generators are unrenewable using the energy they produce over their lifetime. They only make economic sense when combined with storage beyond the fringe of existing networks.

    A more appropriate term is “intermittents”. A more correct term is “dirty intermittent generators”.

    Intermittent – meaning, occurring at irregular intervals; not continuous or steady

    Dirty electrical power – meaning, abnormality in the power quality that is being delivered to a system. These abnormalities can include low power factor, voltage variations, frequency variations, and surges.

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    • #
      Kinky Keith

      Excellent.

      21

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      The dictionary of the Future.

      11

    • #
      Hanrahan

      Wind and solar may be free, but so is coal – It is just sitting there waiting to be dug up. The miners don’t send a cheque to God, not even His earthly agents, the churches. Any costs are gov royalties and “the cost of miners doing their business”.

      Unreliables [unfairly] don’t have to pay royalties on sun and wind but suffer similar costs of doing business. The only inherent advantage they have is being royalty free.

      41

    • #
      Analitik

      Unreliables is a term used by someone I know who is a warmist but who was also an engineer involved with the power industry.

      40

  • #
    AndyG55

    ₚₛₛₜₜₜₜ

    Have you heard about the peak oil rumours and divestment away from fossil fuels ??

    11

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    More EV political silliness…..

    https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6011650/toyota-scuppers-claim-labors-electric-vehicle-policy-would-leave-hilux-drivers-stranded/?cs=14231

    Oh look…Tweedle Dum(b) and Tweedle Dee

    “The Department of the Environment and Energy has estimated that the government’s electric vehicle strategy, announced as part of its climate solutions package, would cut greenhouse gas emissions by 10 megatons by 2030.

    “The department says the figure was based on a federally funded report by consultancy Energeia that suggests electric vehicles could comprise between 25 and 50 per cent of new car sales by 2030. It says this would occur if action at all levels of government is coordinated through a national strategy – an approach adopted by the government.

    “The upper end of that projection, 50 per cent, is identical to Labor’s target.”

    “”Our national electric vehicle strategy may make it easier for Australians to choose an EV but we don’t have a target, and we won’t impose a harsh new emissions standard or a tax on new cars to drive uptake,” he said.

    “On the other hand, Labor has set a target, and are proposing serious interventions – including harsh emissions vehicle standards – in order to get there.”

    Important point – the NWO mob said they wold *force* people into thier twisted vision if people could not be coaxed into it.

    This also means *all* options are on the table, if they have to hold down an entire country, and belt it into submission to meet its twisted occult vision…..

    40

  • #
    RickWill

    Ocean distribution of heat is fundamental to the relatively small range in temperature experienced over the entire surface of the earth. Ocean surface temperatures ranges between -2 to 30C. Deep ocean temperature range is only a few degrees C. Land surface temperature range is from -50 to 50C. By comparison the moon experiences a range from 100K to 400K equating to 300 degrees C; roughly 10 times the range across the surface of ocean water on earth and 100 times the range in the deep oceans across the globe.

    There was a major shift in global climate 65 million years ago when Drake’s Passage opened. That enabled the Southern Ocean circulation. The linked paper models the impact and there is ample fossil evidence to support the conclusions:
    https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/full/10.1175/1520-0485%282004%29034%3C1254%3AEOTDPT%3E2.0.CO%3B2

    The largest SAT changes occur during winter in areas of large sea ice change. However, summer conditions are still significantly warmer when DP is closed (regionally up to 4°C). Summer SAT is the most important factor determining whether an Antarctic ice sheet can build up. Therefore our study does not exclude the possibility that changes in ocean gateways may have contributed to the glaciation of Antarctica. Overall, these experimental results support paleoclimatic evidence of rapid cooling of the Southern Ocean region soon after the isolation of Antarctica.

    So closing Drake’s passage eliminates ice accumulation in Antarctica and the Southern Pacific is 4 degrees C warmer than present. This gives some indication of the importance of ocean circulation in distributing heat. It also indicates that life in the Southern Pacific survived being 4C warmer than the present.

    50

  • #
    joseph

    And then there’s 5G . . . . .

    10

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      5G? Would you like to expand on that?

      20

      • #
        joseph

        Here’s a link to one of the first pages to come up when I did a search on my StartPage search engine . . . . . “5G Australia” . . . . and it’s a good enough place to start.

        https://www.whistleout.com.au/MobilePhones/Guides/5g-in-australia-what-you-need-to-know

        But, when you get looking into it, it looks like there’s a bit more we might need to know!

        http://stateofthenation2012.com/?p=120363

        And here’s a link to a video that’s worth watching, imho . . . .

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzgAWo0xHes

        10

        • #
          Hanrahan

          /5g-in-australia-what-you-need-to-know

          I’m with Steve, why do we need to know?

          40

          • #
            joseph

            I don’t interpret Steve’s comment as being the question that you ask but I’ll try to provide an answer.

            All I knew when I was first hearing of 5G was that it was going to speed up everything on the internet, allowing us to download a movie in a couple of seconds. And make possible the IoT, the Internet of Things.

            Then I was hearing interviews and reading articles that were adding to “/5g-in australia-what-you-need-to-know

            Articles like this, from: “The Big Picture” by Jeremy Naydler . . . . (the second article I linked above.)

            ” In November of 2018, the United States Federal Communications Commission (FCC) authorised the rocket company SpaceX, owned by the entrepreneur Elon Musk, to launch a fleet of 7,518 satellites to complete SpaceX’s ambitious scheme to provide global satellite broadband services to every corner of the Earth.

            The satellites will operate at a height of approximately 210 miles, and irradiate the Earth with extremely high frequencies between 37.5 GHz and 42 GHz. This fleet will be in addition to a smaller SpaceX fleet of 4,425 satellites, already authorised earlier in the year by the FCC, which will orbit the Earth at a height of approximately 750 miles and is set to bathe us in frequencies between 12 GHz and 30 GHz. The grand total of SpaceX satellites is thus projected to reach just under 12,000.”

            And the video linked above is a presentation by a doctor in the UK who is seeing some problems with regard to health relating to the wavelengths and frequencies employed. It’s easy to watch and maybe you’ll find it is a good enough answer to your question, if you’ve got the time and interest to watch it.

            Cheers

            20

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Apart from moving the smartphones to use K band radiation ( anyone feel ill yet? ), mm waves need towers – lots and lots of towers.

          mm waves gets blocked by trees etc, which means either do it all from space ) not practical ) or…….lots and lots of towers.

          Like one in every street.

          Like quietly paying your neighbour to put one in his house…..

          The other thing at the Mobile World Conference in Barcelona in Spain ( aprart from live injecting chips into stupid people hands ) was creating the *global brain*.

          The pragamtist in me says – now why would you need a global brain? – so they can know everying about you.

          Ever wondered why the push for “the cloud” is so big?

          So all you info ( and your electronic health record if you were niaive enough to get one ) can be combed over by AI & anyone who wants your info.

          Now add in IoT with 5G.

          5G will be the synapses that link AI & IoT and together. Now add in the trawling and analysis by a “global brain” and your privacy becomes a museum peice…..

          40

  • #
    Don A

    This attempt by Trump to look at the science needs international support. Let’s see what we can do.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfaIJZwtavc&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR1nK6pIw_BR5luk7pm_4mbsyvD108bp7HeNHol5BNOgCkUJPpy80gdH0fI

    70

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      Thanks Don A,
      Excellent all round. Good picture and sound, 10mins 30, good interview and good answers. He even mentions the word “fraud” several times, and in context.
      Cheers,
      Dave B

      50

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      Progress

      11

    • #
      Bodge it an scarpa

      This is possibly the only chance of having a public investigation into the science of the Climate Change/ Global Warming fraud. If it gets called off, we are screwed and banging our collective heads against an impenetrable brick wall of corruption and naive stupidity !

      00

  • #

    I’m not sure if anyone has mentioned this before, but I’ll put it out there anyway.

    In all this kerfuffle about EV’s I’m willing to bet no one has mentioned what it would take to charge these things at home overnight.

    Now, it probably won’t be a case of charging it every night, unless it’s a small car with limited range, but even so, the average EV will have a battery bank in it of between 60KWH and 100KWH.

    Now, no one will be running the thing flat, so it would be a case of replacing the power consumed by driving, and the battery charge to get back to full might be a case of replenishing between 40KWH and 60KWH. (Keep in mind here that the average home only consumes 20KWH, so each charge is the equivalent of three homes, or a tripling of your household electricity bill)

    So, average that recharge out to say 50KWH, and that it will be a slow charge at home, say over eight to ten hours.

    At the slower rate of ten hours that’s 5KW per hour for ten hours (50KWH)

    So that’s at least at the rate of putting the charge into the battery of 21Amps at the household voltage of 240 Volts.

    The average home has 10Amp outlets, and aircon Units at 15Amps.

    So, you’re going to need a dedicated 25Amp outlet installed into the garage to charge the EV.

    There’s now the added cost of having that rewired into the home, and keep in mind here that I’ve used a small car with a slow ten hour charge rate, so anything bigger than that, or faster than that, then it will be a bigger current outlet requirement.

    Now you’re locked into staying at that home, or if you move, finding a home with the required power outlets or having the work done at the new home all over again.

    And heaven help if you’re just a renter.

    Make inquiries about the cost of getting an electrical contractor out to do that sort of work in the home. It’s not cheap.

    I see the solar cold calls and pink batts saga starting all over again.

    So much for cheaper household electricity bills eh. Tripling your daily power consumption just to charge up your EV battery at home.

    Tony.

    101

    • #
      Gee aye

      quite true… it is a huge change if you multiply that by 10 million homes or whatever.

      We have a 30amp circuit for our oven.

      41

    • #
      Another Ian

      Tony

      Reading for you

      “A MODEST SUGGESTION REGARDING RENEWABLE ENERGY”

      https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/04/09/a-modest-suggestion-regarding-renewable-energy/

      00

    • #
      Hanrahan

      Now you’re locked into staying at that home,

      You are also locked into staying home at night, or catching a cab. here a cab fare both ways would buy a tank of gas.

      BTW I’m pretty sure your electricity retailer will have final say on how many 25A outlets they allow on each pole transformer. Be early or miss out.

      70

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      Thanks Tony for your wisdom on this.

      I have copied and pasted it on my Facebook page

      Bill In Oz

      21

      • #
        Bodge it an scarpa

        Bill in OZ, I also shared it on a Facebook 4WD sub group discussion on electric vehicles. Copping some flack from those pointing out that the average daily mileage for commuters in OZ is only around 30km, so the average daily charge consumption is nothing like the 50kwh that Tony has for sat.

        10

        • #
          Bodge it an scarpa

          Forcast not “for sat”.

          00

        • #
          Graeme#4

          It’s interesting that when you use averages for everything, you end up with an average daily recharge a lot less than if you took the total fuel consumption over one year for the whole of Australia and divided it by the number of vehicles, then converted this to electrical energy required. So I’m not sure that any of the figures currently being thrown around are correct.

          00

    • #
      BruceJ

      Tony,

      These numbers relate to one car. How many homes have one car nowadays? Many have 2 and 3 or 4 is not uncommon. If they are all charging at the same time, the current could easily be 75-100 amps plus the normal household draw, so 150 amp feed from the grid is not unlikely, well beyond the capacity of existing connectors and household cabling. Our sparkies are going to absolutely rapt with the demand for their services!

      And then, of course, the grid infrastructure will need upgrading, from street cabling, back to pole transformers, sub-stations, switching, and feeders from the power stations. Then, if all these upgrades are needed, why not put it all underground and remove the risk of failing systems causing bushfires, etc and, get rid of the poles that get hit by cars? Such an opportunity to not just gold plate the system, but to platinum plate it! And to pay for it all? The gubmint can! Just increase the tax rate to 110%, give the the poor a handout to cover the extra costs and we can all relax, warm and fuzzy as the climate continues on its merry way!

      70

    • #
      PeterS

      So I presume that Shorten will give everyone a rebate on the cost of charging EVs to get to his 50% target? If not then no one will bother buying one so out goes his dream (nightmare actually).

      10

      • #
        Hanrahan

        The US will keep a lid on oil prices [they are now the world's biggest producer] and ICEs are steadily becoming more efficient – more coming soon.

        When the market settles, reality kicks in and govs and electricity utilities pull the subsidies, EVs will not be cheaper to run, just >twice the price to buy. I see a lot of garages becoming the games room.

        10

        • #
          Bodge it an scarpa

          Due to their addiction to petrol and diesel excise tax, I don’t think our governments in OZ give a toss whether the US keeps a lid on oil prices or not. They will continue to rip off the long suffering motorist like they have always done !

          00

    • #
      Graeme#4

      Tony, while I’m generally against using averages, I think an average 50 kW every evening, if I’m understanding you correctly, is too much for the average daily commute of 38 kms. I think you would be looking at less than 10 kW recharge on a daily basis.

      00

    • #
      yarpos

      I wonder if everyone will stop charging their EVs for Earth Hour?

      10

  • #
    Bodge it an scarpa

    Could someone please put me straight on Solar an Wind’s contribution to Australia’s electricity needs. I have read here on occasion that it is around 5%, but Google search throws up a total nameplate capacity for wind of 5679mw and Solar of 11085mw, based on a 30% and 20% average for W and S respectively that gives an actual delivered average production of 1703mw (wind) and 2217mw (Solar) for a combined total of 3920mw. That is very roughly around 20% of baseload, not 5%. Where have the numbers gone askew? Is it because Renewables generally don’t deliver their product at times of peak demand, and therefore are not included in the breakdown of baseload contributors ? It’s very difficult getting accurate information by googling because most articles are biased toward Renewables.

    10

    • #

      That 5% figure ‘may’ be in relation to ALL energy.

      When it comes to just the electrical power generation, the figure is actually 13.5%, and that’s all wind power, solar plant power and rooftop solar power.

      That 13.5% is with respect to the average total power generation from every source, and not just the Base Load.

      The average total power generation from all sources comes in at 23700MW. That’s based upon the data collection for the last 27 weeks.

      The average for all those three renewables comes in at 3200MW, hence 13.5%.

      That’s accurate to last Sunday, 7th April 2019. Keep in mind here that that 27 weeks covers the best time period for both versions of solar power generation, Summer and the few weeks either side of Summer, so that 13.5% is close to the high for the year. And that CF figure for solar power of 20% is well off the mark. The current CF for solar plant power is around 17%, and for rooftop solar around 13%, with wind currently at around 27%

      Tony.

      80

      • #
        Bodge it an scarpa

        Cheers Tony. Do you have a separate figure for just Wind and Solar farms, minus rooftop ? I am sticking my neck out trying to argue the sceptics position on social media, a role that I am scientifically ill equipped for, so up to date easy to understand information is important to save myself looking like a complete Plonker. :-)

        40

    • #
      RickWill

      To be accurate, the only source of renewable energy is hydro. Dirty intermittents are usually referred to as renewable but they are not a renewable source. This link gives the Australian government data for all sources of electric energy by fuel type:
      https://www.energy.gov.au/sites/default/files/2019_aes_table_o_march_2019.pdf
      In FY 2017/18
      Wind 14.9TWh
      Solar 9.9TWh
      In a total of 261TWh.

      Both wind and solar capacity are increasing rapidly so you need to look at the capacity installed at the time of reporting to get a realistic view of the capacity factors. You can go back in time using the table O1 to see how fast the fuel source is changing. Brown coal has been hardest hit with a 35% reduction since its peak.

      40

      • #
        Bill in Oz

        No Hydro is NOT ‘renewable’.

        Water is limited especially in our land where dought is always just around the corner.

        And once the water goes down the tubes and through the turbine is is gone.

        Unless you wish to pump it all back up hill again and waste a huge amount of electricity doing it

        31

        • #
          RickWill

          But the water comes back naturally again within a year or ten. It is renewable in that it can recover the energy expended in its construction many fold and will continue to do that for a very long time with due care and attention at negligible ongoing cost.

          30

        • #

          So then, Saturday, Sunday, and Monday, the early AM Base Load is doing what it always does during these low power consumption Months of Autumn, dropping to its lowest levels, and having said that it’s only down to 17000MW, from a year round average of 18000MW.

          Then on Tuesday morning and again this morning, it was back up to 18000MW, on both mornings, and not just reaching that low point for one point in time, but staying around that 18000MW mark for a couple of hours.

          Hmm, now, why would that be eh?

          On Monday, and again on Tuesday, only for a lot longer on the Tuesday, Tumut Three pumped hydro was in use across most of both days, especially at that evening peak time.

          Run the turbine/generators and sell the power at the increased price around that evening peak, and use the early morning low price of mainly coal fired power to pump the water ‘back up the hill’, only consuming more power to pump it up than it generates on the way down at the peak time.

          Tony.

          40

  • #
    pat

    terrific read:

    7 Apr: American Greatness: All the Progressive Plotters
    By Victor Davis Hanson
    https://amgreatness.com/2019/04/07/all-the-progressive-plotters/

    20

    • #
      Another Ian

      “*UPDATED* Cautious Optimism – AG William Barr States He is Reviewing DOJ/FBI Conduct During The Summer of 2016…”

      https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/04/09/cautious-optimism-ag-william-barr-states-he-is-reviewing-doj-fbi-conduct-during-the-summer-of-2016/

      Stock up!

      30

      • #
        pat

        Another Ian -

        I have not heard or seen any reference on ABC, SBS, BBC, Sky, etc etc etc about the many revelations re Spygate since the Mueller investigation ended and the real investigation began!

        9 Apr: ConservativeTreehouse: Court Filing Reveals Numerous Comey Memos Including Investigative Meetings, Sources, Methods and Contacts…
        by sundance
        https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/04/09/court-filing-reveals-numerous-comey-memos-including-investigative-meetings-sources-methods-and-contacts/

        8 Apr: ConservativeTreehouse: FBI ‘Lovers’ New Texts Expose Obama Complicity: He “Wants To Know Everything We’re Doing”
        by Tyler Durden
        New text messages between FBI lovers Peter Strzok and Lisa Page have now been made public, and, as The Duran’s Alex Christoforou notes, the big reveal is that then-POTUS Barack Obama appears to be in the loop, on the whole ‘destroy Trump’ insurance plan hatched by upper management at the FBI.
        The messages include an exchange about preparing talking points for then-FBI Director James Comey to give to President Obama, who wanted “to know everything we’re doing.”…
        https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-07/fbi-lovers-new-texts-expose-obama-complicity-he-wants-know-everything-were-doing

        worth a reminder:

        18 Mar: ZeroHedge: Meet Hillary Clinton’s Other, More Powerful And Shadowy Oppo Research Firm
        by Tyler Durden
        (Alexander) Downer, a long-time Aussie chum of Bill and Hillary Clinton, had been on Hakluyt’s advisory board since 2008. Officially, he had to resign his Hakluyt role in 2014, but his informal connections continued uninterrupted, the News Corp. Australian Network reported in a January 2016 exclusive…READ ON
        https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-18/meet-hillary-clintons-other-much-more-powerful-and-shadowy-oppo-research-firm

        20

        • #
          pat

          two twitter feeds worth checking on a regular basis:

          Twitter: Paul Sperry (includes)
          TWEET: Paul Sperry: #DeepStatePress What this SpyGate scandal is really starting to reveal is how the Deep State co-opted the otherwise free press. Journos eagerly climbed into bed, both literally & figuratively, with law enforcement and intelligence, even co-conspiring with them against the people.
          9 Apr 2019
          https://twitter.com/paulsperry_

          Twitter: George Papadopolous (includes)
          TWEET: First thing Barr should expose is the agency that was handling Joseph Mifsud to try and entrap the campaign. That, as well as exposing both Alexander Downer’s and Stefan Halper’s will implicate a lot of people at the very top of the Obama administration
          9 Apr 2019
          https://twitter.com/GeorgePapa19

          10

          • #
            pat

            ***where has theirABC been on any of the following transcripts? no doubt Matt Bevan is incorporating it all into his “Russia, If you’re Listening” podcasts? lol.

            btw, why hasn’t any politician from any party demanded to know why ABC is continuing with idiotic Bevan side-show?

            and how come I didn’t hear the Turnbull/Trump phone call story on any news bulletin?

            9 Apr: WashingtonExaminer: Republican releases transcript of top FBI lawyer during Clinton, Trump-Russia investigations
            by Jerry Dunleavy
            Rep. Doug Collins, R-Ga., released the transcript of former FBI General Counsel James Baker on Tuesday, the latest in a series of such disclosures by the ranking member on the House Judiciary Committee.
            The 152-page transcript is from a closed-door interview that Baker gave on Oct. 3, 2018 in front of a joint session of the House Judiciary and Oversight committees.
            “The Americans deserve transparency and they deserve to know what transpired at the highest levels of the FBI and at the origin of the probe into President Trump’s campaign,” Collins said…
            TRANSCRIPT

            ***In recent weeks, Collins has released transcripts of the congressional interviews of Strzok (LINK), Page (LINK), Justice Department official Bruce Ohr (LINK), his wife and Fusion GPS contractor Nellie Ohr (LINK), former Trump campaign aide George Papadopoulos (LINK), and former assistant director of the FBI’s counterintelligence division Bill Priestap (LINK).
            https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/republican-releases-transcript-of-top-fbi-lawyer-during-clinton-trump-russia-investigations

            includes comment on James Baker whose transcript was only released today:

            Updated 2 Apr: Epoch Times: Release of Congressional Transcripts Confirms The Epoch Times’ Prior Reporting
            by Jasper Fakkert, Editor-in-Chief, U.S. Editions
            https://www.theepochtimes.com/release-of-congressional-transcripts-confirms-the-epoch-times-prior-reporting_2840288.html

            10

        • #
          Another Ian

          Pat

          Re “I have not heard or seen any reference on ABC, SBS, BBC, Sky, etc etc etc about the many revelations re Spygate since the Mueller investigation ended and the real investigation began!”

          I suspect that there is a gigantic muster of squirrels going on

          30

        • #
          Hanrahan

          Pat, I don’t wish to pry, tell me to MYOB if you wish, but are you a research asst or something similar? You access a broad range of sources, many behind a paywall.

          30

          • #
            pat

            Hanrahan –

            I worked in the media much of my working life.
            when the internet came along, I saw it strictly as a research tool and I’ve been using it as such for 2 decades, not only for my own education, but to assist friends who still work in journalism.

            that’s it really.

            60

        • #
          James Murphy

          Is Zerohedge still accessible in Australia, or is it only blocked by some ISPs?

          On a related topic, and maybe a stupid question… if Telstra, for example, blocks access to something, does that affect all the ISPs that effectively resell Telstra bandwidth, or does it only apply to people or organisations directly using Telstra as an ISP?

          No wonder various well advertised VPN services have gone up in price recently…

          00

          • #
            yarpos

            Yes the Doom porners at ZH are available.

            Most resellers are selling the whole service , buying in bulk , rebranding and adding their own billing systems and customer service. I’d expect Telstra blocking would bring the basic resellers down also.

            If you dont want to VPN just change your DNS setting to use 1.1.1.1 primary and 8.8.8.8 secondary. They are both overseas and bypass any games being played with DNS in Australia. Most of the blocking discussed in the media is just DNS blocking which is easily bypassed.

            10

            • #
              Hanrahan

              Doom porners

              Nice turn of phrase. Who do you recommend I should goto, Breitbart?

              00

            • #
              yarpos

              Go straight to Zerohedge. A day rarely goes past where someone isnt predicting and detailing some kind of apocalypse whether it be biblical, financial, world war or from outer space. About half of it is loopy and half of it is interesting and sometimes even educated alternative views on things. Not for the easily offended though as comments appear unmoderated and can be rather extreme , which is what I think they got blocked for.

              10

  • #
    Greg in NZ

    But wait – problem solved!

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-10/diesel-fuel-made-from-tyres/10983930

    “The company said they hope to have the biodiesel commercially available as soon as possible… But how long exactly that’s a hard one … I can believe it’s a matter of years, but it’s certainly less than 10 years.” Phew! Just in time for 2030′s agenda. But – what about Peak Tyre!

    31

    • #
      Another Ian

      well that ought to “roll coal” when burnt

      10

    • #
      Sambar

      And plastics as well. Quite a few youtube sites showing how to distil a light type of fuel oil from plastic bottles. Like all of these schemes the energy required to recover the volatiles is greater than the return. So we still haven’t developed the good old perpetual motion system. Best way to recover the energy stored in things like tyres and assorted plastics is to burn them and use the heat for power generation.

      40

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Devil is in the details…..more proof CAGW is an ecomomy killing porky

      https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/labor-s-vehicle-carbon-target-would-save-motorists-27-5-billion-20190410-p51coz.html

      “Labor’s vehicle carbon target would save motorists $27.5 billion

      “Prime Minister Scott Morrison urged voters to reject Labor at the election because its new fuel standards would add $5,000 to the cost of a new car by reducing greenhouse gas emissions to 105 grams of carbon for every kilometre travelled.

      “Mr Morrison said only three of the top 20 cars sold in Australians at the moment could meet that standard and called on Opposition Leader Bill Shorten to admit the cost of the policy.”
      ……….
      “The Labor policy is separate to its goal for electric cars to make up half of all new car sales by 2030, although it has not said this would be mandated to force customers to give up their petrol vehicles.”

      Or in other words – you may have your face shoved in the mud and held there to appease Labors globalist masters….

      20

    • #
      Hanrahan

      There will be no peak tyre. Heavy EVs will scrub them quicker than any Corolla.

      30

    • #
      Bill in Oz

      Wasn’t there a bloke in Brisbane who was on the New Inventors years ago
      Doing exactly this to tyres ?

      He got an award from the show.

      But then it all disappeared down a black hole.

      Anyone know what happened ?

      21

      • #
        Bodge it an scarpa

        On a related note, I have often wondered how much crude oil goes into every square metre of the average Australian bitumen road. Considering the heavy vehicles that we expect to use them, we build some really pathetically inadequate highways in this country, particularly my home state of Vic, where some sections of the Princess highway begin to breakup within months of opening, thus requiring ongoing repair and or reconstruction work. So much for Peak Oil ! Has anyone come up with a cost effective process to recover the oil from scrap bitumen once dug up before a road surface has been reconstructed ?

        10

        • #
          Bodge it an scarpa

          Shorten if elected won’t need to mandate that we scrap our petrol and diesel powered private vehicles to then purchase EVs. He will simply insure that the cost per litre of petrol and diesel will skyrocket to the point that our liquid powered pride and joy would become grossly uneconomic to operate. My LPG fuelled V8 Land and RangeRover are barely viable to run as it is, even at an average of 65 cents per litre in Vic, but unfortunately LPG for automotive use is gradually being phased out, with quite a few fuel outlets pulling up their bowsers.

          00

        • #
          yarpos

          You arent making much oil from bitumen. Bitumen is a by product of refining oil and is sort of what you have left after you have extracted all the other higher value goodness.

          I think they can go the other was using tar sands like they have in Canada, extracting bitumen then then adding components to get something like crude oil.

          10

    • #
      James Murphy

      If only we had a way to convert diesel into tyres, then we would never run out of either of them…

      00

  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    The LNP and the Labor parties both have near identical policies on EV’s, supported by the department of Environment and Energy, which are forecasting at least 25% of all vehicles will be EV’s by 2030. But…
    There is no energy policy, no forecast for demand, no planning for grid scale changes. It appears that the anti campaign has been successful in that instead of managing our future needs both parties, but mostly the LNP (they have been in power longer) have dithered and dithered and dithered, to the extent that even someone like me is saying – come on, do what you are elected to do.

    32

    • #
      el gordo

      Both sides are flying kites to woo virtue signallers, no due diligence required because its only a pipe dream.

      62

    • #
      RickWill

      I have had a lifetime interest in electric vehicles. I built an electric bike in 1975.

      The economics for a battery powered vehicle for my use will be based on zero energy cost. We have two cars and average annual usage is less than 10,000km. A small to medium sedan will use 20kWh/100km. So the yearly consumption is only 2000kWh. That can reasonably be sourced from 2kW of solar panels in Melbourne. I would not have a problem keeping one car charged from my existing 3kW off-grid system for 6 months of the year. Would need to add more panels to get through winter.

      The average vehicle distance travelled in a year in Australia is only 15,000km. So 3kW of solar panels could supply the required energy if it was connected throughout each day. Just stick solar panels as roofing on the garage port rather than another form of cladding.

      I do not think it is up to the government to back winners or try to make silk purse from a sow’s ears. I do not think the best avenues for electrification of transport are foreseeable. As far as I am concerned the power grid is no longer an economic entity. It is cheaper to make my own and the technology exists.

      The NBN is a good example of wasted money – it is superseded by 5G before it is completed. My land line connection is no longer my most reliable data source as it depends on grid power, which has had two outages in my area this year. Mobile phone was my goto source to find out why there were outages. Expanding the grid in anticipation of EV take-up would be a potential waste.

      There are already efforts being applied to fully automate cars. That could be a fundamental change to personal transport. Rather than the Uber fleet sitting in parking stations through the day waiting for a fare they could be in solar powered charging stations. They might even have their own solar panels.

      In my opinion Tesla’s are the worst example of EVs. A two tonne vehicle to transport an 80kg passenger does not make sense. The solar changing provides better examples of what is technically possible:
      https://www.racv.com.au/membership/member-benefits/royalauto/archive/the-world-solar-challenge-cars-set-to-win-in-practicality-stakes.html

      Ever heard the one about the family car that travelled 3000 kilometres from Darwin to Adelaide while consuming just 64kWh of energy – when a typical modern car would use around 5000kWh?

      No, it’s not an urban myth. The Stella Vie, engineered by students from the Netherlands’ Eindhoven University of Technology, came first in the Cruiser Class in the 2017 World Solar Challenge, and achieved these impressive stats in the 2013 event.

      The Stella Vie, fitted with a 16kWh lithium-ion battery pack and a 1.5kW solar panel, has room for four passengers, can cruise at 70 kilometres solely off the energy generated by the solar panels, and can reach a top speed of around 125 kilometres.

      China already has 250 million electric vehicles. They do not look anything like a Tesla. They are practical and economic. Not some resource hungry behemoth.

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      AndyG55

      Neither LNP or ALP are going to do the scientifically and logically sensible thing.

      Get out of the ridiculous Paris agreement.

      Remove the RET and all subsidies and mandates.

      Build some new HELE type coal or gas power stations to be in government hands until paid off.

      STOP trying to push EV’s, let the market decide.

      Reveal the anti-CO2 campaign for what it is.. a load of non-science garbage.

      I strongly suggest you vote for one of the smaller parties that have something near these principle, at least in the Senate

      That means the Australian Conservative Party or One Nation.

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        Peter Fitzroy

        Well AG, I will certainly read their policy positions with interest

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          AndyG55

          ACP Energy Policy

          Key Points:

          •Australians deserve the most reliable and affordable energy in the world.

          •With electricity generation, we are technology-agnostic but subsidy-averse.

          •We support nuclear power and a nuclear fuel cycle industry.

          •We support all forms of electricity generation and will provide them with legislative certainty and legal protection.

          •We do not support any renewable energy targets.

          We will remove all taxpayer and cross subsidies to electricity generation.

          •We will require all electricity supplied to the grid to be useable – that is, predictable and consistent in output (kWhrs) and synchronous (at the required 50 Hz range).

          •We will allow market forces to provide the most efficient power generation available.

          We will withdraw from the Paris Climate Accord.

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            Peter Fitzroy

            Thanks, as I have said previously I”m in favour of the libertarian market model, which has no subsidies, no interventions by government (like say printing money, oops qualitative easing), and transparent.

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            RickWill

            The ACP needs to get these policies in front of the voters.

            That said, the federal government does not have control over electricity supply at retail level to ensure the proposed outcomes. States can still require retailers to buy lunchtime power at a set price and sell it to consumers at a profit. The States can also provide direct subsidies to assist purchase of household solar and storage systems. COAG would be a hostile place for ACP power policy.

            Look at how South Australia has destroyed the economics of power supply in Victoria. So States operating at a retail level can do a lot of harm to the grid because of the interconnections.

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              AndyG55

              “The ACP needs to get these policies in front of the voters.”

              Unfortunately, that seems to be the difficult part.

              Pauline Hansen gets a lot of up front free advertising because she is a “target” for the MSM. One Nation makes a noise, one could say. ;-)

              ACP doesn’t have that “maverick outlook” (or whatever you want to call it) to get people’s attention.

              Their policies are just plain, straightforward common sense, so they get no publicity at all, except what they can afford to buy.

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          AndyG55

          For your education. pfutz.

          You might need to let down your hard-held far-left brain-hosing though.

          https://www.conservatives.org.au/our_policies

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        PeterS

        Absolutely. Anyone who preferences ACP below ALP, Greens or LNP is a fool.

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        el gordo

        Reapolitik

        They won’t mention Paris, the RET or solar subsidies, nor will they say the religious belief system which has taken over the minds of the electorate is a fallacy.

        Instead the Coalition will promise bread and circuses in the form of fast rail and decentralisation.

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        Conservatism, fuddy duddy it is not, in fact it is the opposite. In the following I make the case that compared to those other political processes, yr clean-slate blue-print for Utopia and Fascist dynamo. how adaptable and innovative your British history of trial and error from Magna Carta to the inventions of the Industrial Revolution and discoveries of science. https://beththeserf.wordpress.com/2016/01/24/36th-edition-serf-under_ground-journal/

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    pat

    we recently had:

    6 Mar: Roy Morgan: Economic Issues dominate Australians’ problems in 2018
    Economic Issues led by Financial problems and Cost of living, Unemployment, Economic problems, Housing affordability, Poverty and the gap between rich and poor were mentioned by 32% of Australians as the most important problems facing Australia;
    Environmental issues were mentioned by 11% of Australians;…

    Most important problems facing the World
    Climate change/Global warming – mentioned by just over 7% of Australians…
    http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/7504-most-important-problems-australia-the-world-february-2018-201803051043

    now we have this allegedly narrowly-focused poll:

    10 Apr: ABC: Now Adani has been approved, these are the nine at-risk Coalition seats most concerned about climate change
    By political reporter Jackson Gothe-Snape
    Key points: “Keeping day to day living costs down” is the issue most often identified by Australians as a concern

    At least one in three people (33 per cent) have climate change concerns in nine Liberal seats that are potentially vulnerable at the coming election.
    That is significantly above the national average of approximately one in four people (26 per cent)…

    The polling, completed by ***Roy Morgan during 2018 as part of the democracy non-profit Australian Futures Project, shows “keeping day-to-day living costs down” is the most pressing concern across Australia, ahead of “improving health services and hospitals” and “open and honest government”.
    Climate change is the next most commonly identified issue…

    Australian Futures Project executive director Ralph Ashton highlighted Warringah and Higgins as areas where climate change was the biggest concern…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-10/adani-approval-climate-change-nine-at-risk-coalition-seats/10985154

    wanting “cheaper bills” ANC action on “global warming” makes no sense:

    10 Apr: SMH: Australians want cheaper bills not lower taxes: new survey
    By Jessica Irvine
    When offered a list of 18 potential issues of concern by surveyors from Roy Morgan over the last year, 53 per cent of Australians ranked “keeping day to day living costs down” in their top three, according to data released by the Australian Futures Project on Wednesday…

    Concern with improving health services and hospitals came in second place, with 32 per cent of Australians nominating it as a concern…
    Ensuring “open and honest government” ranks in third place, with 28 per cent of respondents nominating it in their top three, ***followed by concern about global warming and climate change, with 25 per cent putting this in their top three…

    The Australian Futures Project is a not-for-profit charitable organisation with an expressed goal of ending “short-termism” in Australia. It has launched ***The Perfect Candidate website (LINK DOESN’T WORK FOR ME) to allow Australians to compare their top areas of concern to the priorities of Australia’s politicians…
    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/australians-want-cheaper-bills-not-lower-taxes-new-survey-20190409-p51c9s.html

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      pat

      Australian Futures Project: About us
      ***Ralph Ashton, Executive Director
      With a background in corporate law and investment banking, Ralph is Adjunct Senior Research Fellow at ***La Trobe Business School and has also held visiting positions at Columbia University and the Australian National University.,,
      Advisory Board:
      Professor John Dewar, Vice-Chancellor, ***La Trobe University
      Supporters:
      ***La Trobe University, etc
      https://www.australianfutures.org/about-us

      “climate change” is #1 issue below, apparently. not recommended viewing. Joost – who is a bit of a fave at ABC – is the most zealous.

      in the bits I watched, didn’t find any mention of when the population is to reach 50 million; one mention of 40 million by 2050. didn’t hear anyone concerned about rapid population growth:

      VIDEO: 1hr23min: 19 Mar: The Age: The Future Fix: How will Australia feed our growing population?
      Just how will we feed 50 million Australians and a ravenous growing region?…
      These were just some of the questions tackled by The Age’s National Editor Tory Maguire and a special panel line-up – Jessica Irvine (senior economics writer, The Age ), ***Ralph Ashton (director, Australian Futures Project), Tony Bacic (director of the ***La Trobe Institute for Agriculture and Food) and Joost Bakker (environmental activist and restaurateur) – as they examined solutions to short-termism in Australian policy making, specifically related to food security for the future…

      This event was part of The Future Fix, a collaboration between The Age and the not-for-profit Australian Futures Project, designed to address short-termism in Australian policy making…

      Ralph Ashton, from Australian Futures Project, said: “I find it very frustrating that, in such a rich country with so much opportunity – and great expertise on what the big issues are – that we keep dropping the balls on the things that really matter. We know that ***climate change is important, we know that infrastructure is important, we know that food security is important, and as a society we seem unable to make really good progress on those sorts of topics – and we’re rich enough to.”

      From ***climate change to infrastructure, tax reform and addressing chronic health, we’re working out why Australian politics and policy is stuck in neutral and what we can do about it…
      https://www.theage.com.au/national/the-age-live-how-will-australia-feed-our-growing-population-20190319-p515et.html

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    pat

    9 Apr: Daily Caller: Exclusive: Documents Detailing Google’s ‘news Blacklist’ Show Manual Manipulation Of Special Search Results
    by J. ARTHUR BLOOM
    Google does manipulate its search results manually, contrary to the company’s official denials, documents obtained exclusively by The Daily Caller indicate.
    Two official policies dubbed the “misrepresentation policy” and the “good neighbor policy” inform the company’s “XPA news blacklist,” which is maintained by Google’s Trust & Safety team. “T&S will be in charge of updating the blacklist as when there is a demand,” reads one of the documents shared with The Daily Caller…READ ON
    https://dailycaller.com/2019/04/09/google-news-blacklist-search-manipulation/

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    pat

    9 Apr: Townhall: Big Foot, Russia Collusion, Black New Deals, and Extreme Climate Change: A World of Myths and Media Brain-Fade
    by Vijay Jayaraj
    (Vijay Jayaraj M.Sc., Environmental Science, University of East Anglia, England, Contributor for the Cornwall Alliance for the Stewardship of Creation, lives in Chennai, India)
    The pattern for the origin and end of fake claims seems similar: Claims are made without objective empirical proof, then, propelled by mainstream news media and internet sensation, sustained among the masses. They continue until irrefutable data finally contradict them. Only then are they put to rest.

    The controversy over climate change follows this pattern. It is now more political than scientific. Since the 1970s, outlandish claims regarding our climate have been made repeatedly, only to be found untrue.
    How exactly do we identify true and false claims in the climate sciences? It is simple.

    Warnings of dramatic, possibly dangerous elements of climate change—like rapid global warming, sea-level rise, and extreme weather patterns—can be checked against actual observations. The credibility of the claims is then judged by their coherence or mismatch with the observed data.

    We particularly need to separate truth from myth in the climate sciences because they determine key policy decisions on our use of fossil fuels, the pace of our economic development, ***and our scientific understanding of the climate system.
    You’ll be shocked by the magnitude of myths promoted in the name of climate change…

    With the expansion of the multi-billion dollar global renewable energy industry, fake claims regarding our climate system have only increased…
    The GND is really the Black New Deal. When the sun sets and the wind goes still, all American homes will be blacked out without any electricity as the GND proposes a complete shutdown of coal and nuclear energy sources.

    For climate scientists like me, it is not new to encounter false climate claims like these. Many know that Cortez is the new Al Gore in the making…
    https://townhall.com/columnists/vijayjayaraj/2019/04/09/big-foot-russia-collusion-black-new-deals-and-extreme-climate-change-a-world-of-myths-and-media-brainfade-n2544460

    ***why haven’t scientific bodies etc come forward to explain how the use of the term “climate change” as a substitute for “anthropogenic global warming” is doing irreparable harm to the various fields of studies of climate?

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    Dennis

    The link below was posted here earlier today, I apologise as I forget the commentators name, but it is valuable information;

    https://www.manhattan-institute.org/green-energy-revolution-near-impossible

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      Bodge it an scarpa

      A good read. Shame that few on ‘the other side’ will ever read or hear about it !

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      Hanrahan

      Somewhere there it says:

      Forecasts for a continual rapid decline in costs for wind/solar/batteries are inspired by the gains that those technologies have already experienced. The first two decades of commercialization, after the 1980s, saw a 10-fold reduction in costs. But the path for improvements now follows what mathematicians call an asymptote; or, put in economic terms, improvements are subject to a law of diminishing returns where every incremental gain yields less progress than in the past

      I remember this law from decades ago. I have regularly quoted it over the years but with zero response, the true believers have no wish to know. This is the first mention of it I’ve come across for many years.

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    James Murphy

    Global glacier mass changes and their contributions to sea-level rise from 1961 to 2016
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1071-0

    “…Here we use an extrapolation of glaciological and geodetic observations to show that glaciers contributed 27 ± 22 millimetres to global mean sea-level rise from 1961 to 2016…”

    At least they include a margin of error!

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    pat

    best way to catch up with all the latest developments…and wonder why none of it will be on the news tonite. great to hear Hannity to back to calling Sara Carter an “investigative journalist”

    following all the Deep State segments, Hannity has Beto O’Rourke promoting the Green New Deal to the farming community!

    Youtube: 43min23sec: Sean Hannity 4/9/19 [FULL]
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE9kNQY-h4g

    Fitton features in the above, but here’s more. always good to check the JW home page as well:

    8 Apr: Judicial Watch: Judicial Watch Uncovers ‘Cover-Up’ Discussions in Latest Production of Clinton Email Documents
    Intelligence IG Details ‘Hundreds’ of Classified Emails and Suggests Entire ‘Collection’ Could Be Classified
    Judicial Watch announced today that it uncovered 422 pages (LINK) of FBI documents showing evidence of “cover-up” discussions related to the Clinton email system within Platte River Networks, one of the vendors who managed the Clinton email system. The documents also show Intelligence Community Inspector General (ICIG) Charles McCullough forwarding “concerns” about classified information in former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s emails…
    https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-uncovers-cover-up-discussions-in-latest-production-of-clinton-email-documents/

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    Bill in Oz

    The Greens senator for SA, Hanson-Young wants the Port Augusta Solar Thermal plant resurrected as a wholely owned government ‘renewable’ energy project !!

    Ohhhhh Bugger ! And here I was thinking it was DEAD.

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    DaleC

    Apologies to those who have not been able to view the XLSX files previously posted – OK for most, but not all.
    Rather than fuss about what the problem could be, I’ve ported the charts to PDF format.

    Demand and price for each state, two series per chart per state

    http://redcentresoftware.com/wp-content/uploads/AEMO_Demand_and_Price_by_State.pdf

    Demand comparing all states, 5 series per chart
    Price comparing all states, 5 series per chart

    http://redcentresoftware.com/wp-content/uploads/AEMO_Demand_and_Price_All_States.pdf

    This set includes scaled duck curves (so eg TAS has the same amplitude as NSW) which makes it easy to see the time shifts.
    TonyFromOz has been talking about DaylightSaving effects. I’ll see if I can do some analysis on that for next month’s update.

    All charts with Year as the X axis include 2019 to date, so the last point is presently just Quarter1.

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    Hanrahan

    Deems their “trusted” BBC has been caught lying.

    This via InfoWars, not my goto for news, but make of it what you will:

    The BBC was ordered to pay damages after the far-left outlet published fake news claiming Ukraine President Petro Poroshenko “authorized” an illegal payment of $400,000 to Michael Cohen for additional face time during a June 2017 meeting with President Trump.

    “We apologize to Mr. Poroshenko for any distress caused and have agreed to pay him damages, legal costs and have participated in a joint statement in open court,” the BBC’s said in a written apology published Thursday.

    In the May 2018 piece, the disgraced BBC made the absurd claim that Poroshenko, who already had a meeting set up with Trump, paid this $400,000 to extend the meeting.

    Think about how well this utterly deranged piece of fake news fits into the overall media’s Russia Collusion Hoax.

    Poroshenko is an aggressive opponent of Russian President Vladimir Putin, so naturally the only way he could get serious face time with Trump (aka Putin’s Stooge) is through a six-figure bribe.
    Michael Cohen was still the president’s personal lawyer at this time, which means the media were desperate for us to see Cohen as Trump’s world-traveling bagman, because that would lend credibility to the phony dossier’s lie about Cohen visiting Prague to pay off the hackers who got Hillary’s emails.
    The story openly insinuates Trump is both in Putin’s pocket and accepting bribes.

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    Geoff Sherrington

    Tony
    Surely even doubling the amps used by the home/car owners would require further big $$ invested in new poles and wires.
    I have seen some estimates from other countries. Their authors conclude that the concept of 100% electric cars with existing poles and wires makes for impossibility.
    The time required to beef up the poles and wires plus new power sources also puts a limit on possibility because we might not be able to increase transmission in a short time because the nation does not generate the income to pay for it in a useful time span.
    Tony have you scoped these major impediments already?
    Comments on Shorten insight?
    Geoff

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    Hanrahan

    The time required to beef up the poles and wires plus new power sources also puts a limit on possibility because we might not be able to increase transmission in a short time because the nation does not generate the income to pay for it in a useful time span.

    Therein lies the problem. Higher power costs cause industry to offshore, reducing economic activity, ergo we have no money to improve the grid.

    Everything the EV/renewables enthusiasts say re new green jobs sounds like taking in each others’ washing – not a viable business model.

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      yarpos

      Ahh but we are stuck in the old paradigm of poles and wires and the gold plating thereof. Dont forget that batteries will cost virtually zero in just a few years, so it will be easy peasy for homes to have massive battery packs charged up during the day (from their massive solar array) so EVs will charge at home from the home mothership batteries not the grid , just like charging your mobile of a power bank. Simples, what could possibly go wrong?

      A big Hi to all the apartment dwellers and renters out there by the way.

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    Richard Ilfeld

    The election is over in Israel.

    It is a stretch to draw conclusions and relate them to the larger world, as no other country faces the
    constant existential threat Israel faces on a daily basis. This colors everything.
    Nonetheless, there is virtually no left wing left in Israeli politics. While, again, acknowledging that this is
    primarily due to the view of external threats, it remains true that the balance of leftist concerns in Israel mimic
    those of the self-described progressive globalists everywhere.

    In addition the the existential threat, Israel is tiny, with few citizens and natural resources. As an economy, needing to
    support a robust and continually active armed force, it tends toward the practical and efficient.

    Israeli agriculture, for example, is interesting to study, as an example of separating kook ideas from practical plans in the growing of food in marginal ground (or no ground at all). The story of the vegetable growing complex in Gaza is a good case study of both agriculture and politics.

    When the rubber meets the road, the left is that armadillo sitting on the yellow line that can’t get out of the way.

    One hopes this trend will take hold in the rest of the world once the progressives in power have squandered any surpluses capitalism has provided.

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    Richard Ilfeld

    How will Trump handle climate change in the next election?
    US issues have to be reduced to bumper stickers, it seems, I can’t recall anyone winning on the basis of a policy paper or speech, being too young to have attended the Lincoln-Douglas debates.

    1. Use the word hoax wherever possible.
    2. Emphasize that we need a train to Hawaii or Europe under the “green new deal”.
    3. Reference climategate as collusion.

    AS a suggestion, pick a location, and a year: In Iowa in 1938 they measure the temperature as XX. They changed it in XXXX and AXXX and XXXX and XXXX and XXXX to fit their silly theories. What the hell was wrong with the temperature the weather guy recorded in 1938. What does it tell you that the democrats have to rewrite the past. (riff into other areas where the opposition changed the past)

    So far, two of our Democratic wannabes have their campaigns centered on climate change. Unless one gains traction, the left will be backing and filling on the Green new deal and make no more that perfunctory overtures toward climate change which, it is understood, costs the economy. Probably won’t be very important here.

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    tom0mason

    All this global warming and that …

    Of course it’s got to be CO2 hasn’t it?
    It can’t possibly the sun can it?
    No the sun is to feeble an effect, right?
    That’s what the UN-IPCC and all their climate modelers say – - err, right?
    So feeble that all it can do that’s of any significance is modulate the thermosphere, moving the hight of the atmosphere up or down depending on how active the sun is. But that couldn’t affect the weather, (or climate) could it?

    Or maybe it could. There’s a strange correlation, Martin Mlynczak of NASA’s Langley Research Center. is watching this with a “Thermosphere Climate Index” (TCI) ….
    https://spaceweatherarchive.com/2018/09/27/the-chill-of-solar-minimum/
    Humm, thermosphere changes just before the weather climate changes it’s trend?

    Of course that couldn’t possibly be anything to do with how the stratosphere is having some quite anomalous behavior recently …
    see http://ds.data.jma.go.jp/gmd/tcc/tcc/products/clisys/STRAT/gif/pole10_nh.gif , and http://ds.data.jma.go.jp/gmd/tcc/tcc/products/clisys/STRAT/gif/pole10_nh.gif

    Humm, and most solar researchers believe that the next solar cycle isn’t going to be much stronger than this current one (SC24), I wonder what that may herald for the coming winter weather in the NH, a replay of the 1960s-1970s cold period or something worse?

    Have a good day :-)

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    Maptram

    Bill Shorten’s Campaign Bus.
    This fellow is weird or a hypocrite. People have rung a radio station to say that he leaves it running so he can keep the air-con going. So he is wasting precious fuel and causing emissions.A big clash of his philosophies and campaigning, don’t you think?

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