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States with low cost solar and wind paying 1300% more at the moment

Any more free electricity and SA and Victoria will go broke.

In other news a few days ago, the retail price of electricity rose 16% in Victoria and the number of disconnections rose 21%.

In a highly critical report to be released on Tuesday, the Essential Services Commission accused energy retailers of running ineffectual hardship programs that saw customers cut off anyway in most cases.  The commission reported power prices leapt 16 per cent last financial year, feeding a 21 per cent jump in the number of disconnections as 60,732 customers had their power cut off. The ESC said the number of disconnections in the last quarter of the financial year was one of the highest on record. – Sydney Morning Herald

Enjoy all the fun of watching our Australian Electricity Market in operation live as tens of millions of dollars get converted into income for AGL, Energy Australia, ENGIE, Origin and Snowy Hydro. No wonder they love renewables.

States with the most cheap wind and solar pay the most for electricity. Graph. AEMO.

States with the most cheap wind and solar pay the most for electricity. Graph. AEMO.

Why do we allow a few companies to own so many different and competing generators across the entire market?

h/t David B

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Rating: 9.8/10 (77 votes cast)
States with low cost solar and wind paying 1300% more at the moment, 9.8 out of 10 based on 77 ratings

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202 comments to States with low cost solar and wind paying 1300% more at the moment

  • #
    Pauly

    Posterity or sustainability: clearly incompatible concepts.

    150

    • #
      Geoff

      Meanwhile 5F predicted for Boulder CO this Sunday. The coldest ever (since 1932 at 11F). Mag field is fading. China on one side of moon measuring moon,s field, Israel (US) going to our side to so same. I assume NASA has no rocket available, had to ask Elon. I think there is something they are not telling us.

      140

  • #
    Dave

    Two things on my to do list:
    1. Buy a generator
    2. Invest in AGL, Energy Australia, ENGIE, Origin and Snowy Hydro

    180

  • #
    Yonniestone

    I can vouch for the disconnections as we can tell what letters they are and how many more are being posted over the past years, the reactions are disproportionately negative compared to the past with reactions of severe anger, despair and even crying.

    It would appear to sail up the renewables river requires a heart of darkness.

    330

    • #
      Greg in NZ

      It would appear, to sail up the renewables river, requires a heart of darkness.

      Damn, that’s priceless.

      280

      • #
        Greg in NZ

        Whoops – instead of Preview I hit Post Comment – been on a work do all day, gin & wine tasting with salmon pizzas and…

        A priceless summation, Yonniestone – dark, accurate, yet business as usual. I don’t know how some families here in Aotearoa afford to live (disconnections are rife yet it’s only the resultant fatalities which get air time). My overheads are minimal, it’s not a biggie for me, but in parts of the country – with winter on the way – dem gonna be sum tuff times ahead, dey say.

        Did not Josh once pen a cartoon of some green pirate ship sailing up the renewables river into the heart of darkness . . .

        130

        • #
          yarpos

          Thanks for getting out there Greg and doing the hard yards, (wine and salmon pizza style)

          90

        • #
          Yonniestone

          Thanks Greg, while we’re in an ok position it wasn’t always that way with difficult decisions being made in hard times, its the flow on effect for families, food, education, transport, clothing, job prospects etc.. and what some people don’t understand is when you fall below a certain socio-economic level in Australia the government assistance is there but is often the end of getting out of a poverty cycle as the bureaucratic monster has you in its grasp and IMHO the only way to break free is to get off your a$$ and approach businesses directly for work, no matter how many times your’e knocked back keep at it, make friends, contacts and above all leave your ego at home!

          The less the government knows about your personal life the better, years ago we had a young bloke in for some labouring work and soon realised his potential, the biggest problem was his involvement in some government work program that wanted to move him on after his time with us, the boss said stuff them your’e an adult what do you want? and like that he became an employee much to the horror of the government, even after a year of working they still persisted in trying to interfere in his life despite him not receiving any benefits or owing any money to them, to the point they were asked to leave the premises.

          Also don’t underestimate the public prejudice that’s held towards the ‘lower classes’ as this is a big hurdle to overcome, and lets be honest about this all of us have been guilty of doing this at some time in life regardless of our good natures, when I volunteered for the homeless shelter the majority of people weren’t homeless and still managed to afford smokes, alcohol, drugs, phones, internet even cars and I found it difficult to hold my tongue when confronted with attitudes of expectations or entitlement where life was concerned and this situation is where we don’t want our citizens to end up, the welfare cycle must be broken early or not entered into at all for society to improve.

          130

          • #
            Greg in NZ

            Good news everyone – because of this catastrophic, runaway, too hot to snow something-or-other, Mt Hutt in the South Island has cranked-up its summit chairlift today offering boarders, skiers and sight-seers a day in the snow (for a community fundraising event). “Entry is $20 (kids 10 and under are free) and $30 if you plan to ski/ride/bike. Unfortunately, due to recent snow falls, we will not be able to offer our 4WD experience today.” Link below has regularly updated pics from webcams –

            https://www.metservice.com/skifields/mt-hutt

            By 11 am the carpark was nearly full, as unfortunate deplorables very fortunate & keen snow lovers rode the chairlift to nirvana… in summer! So this is the bleak hot future we are living in, huh? N.B. I’m off to work soon so won’t be there – besides, I’m up in the North Island – I’ll just have to wait for winter to arrive…

            80

            • #
              sambar

              Just for a bit of contrast today I’m on fire watch at my daughters house a bit west of Bunyip State park. No pressing danger by any means but we have got the odd bit of burnt stuff falling from the sky. Chooks are locked up and if it all goes to hell, then they are on there own. Dogs are tied up and ready to throw in the truck if needed. A check with wind direction suggests a slight swing to westerly, good for my kids house but of course it always places someone else in harms way. Bugger, I never quite get used to this.

              40

            • #
              jack

              It’s that high stalled over the Tasman streaming warm air from the center down into Victoria.
              Properly cause by New Zealand, their haka’s have scared the high from moving on.

              20

              • #
                Greg in NZ

                ‘Tasman High’ sounds like a great marketing slogan for when Jacindarella legalises herb (yet she wants to ban tobacco at the same time). And some of us grew up playing real footy – y’know, ball + foot = football – none of this pick up the ball with your hands, poke your tongue out and bullrush! cheatin’ stuff… but I sarcly digress.

                It was as much the blocking high in the Tassie as it was the monster snow blizzard, south of W.A. and the Australian Bight, squeezing hot northerly air off the desert between them, traditionally called a ‘warm front’, not global warming climate change carbon pollution the end of the world etc. And today, Sydney is the coldest state capital with a pleasant 28˚C on the way (same as what it is where I am now according to my thermometer). That Tasman high is obviously related to the devil’s molecule CO₂ as they both cause warm AND cool at the same time in different places… D O O M E D I tells ya!

                10

      • #
        Geoff

        What works best?
        In order to work at maximum efficiency, the perfect temperature for a solar panel is about 25C.

        But that refers to the temperature of the panel itself, not the atmospheric temperature.

        “On a 45C day, I would expect the panel to be at least 75C, so the panel is 50C hotter than the optimum,” Mr Peacock said.

        For every degree above that optimum, power output will decline by about half a per cent.

        “If it’s 10C higher than normal, it’s underperforming by 5 per cent which is not a lot,” University of NSW solar researcher Renate Egan said.

        By these numbers from the ABC that panel is not going to work too well!

        40

    • #

      Can you imagine the reaction were this any other industry but the Green Blob?

      130

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        The green saboteurs industry? That one?

        I warned my niece off the green communists and socialusts when she starts uni this year…she is doing law which will have its share of lefty numpties.

        Funny…a mate who i did engineering with, had his brother who was doing law. My mate didnt have much time for lawyers….reckoned they were on par with telephone sanitizers 2nd class…

        150

    • #
      Rob Leviston

      Yonnie, are you a postie?

      30

  • #
    Speedy

    Surprise, surprise. People who dismantle a viable base-load power system, and try to replace it with unreliable, expensive “renewable” energy sources, get stiffed!

    Like they say – you can ignore reality, but you can’t ignore the consequences of ignoring reality…
    Cheers,

    Speedy

    340

  • #
    Sambar

    Don’t worry about the increasing cost of electricity. Just a mere drop in the ocean when it comes to politicians ineptitude. Does anyone recall the last federal election when a certain M. Turnbull invested $50. Billion to save the seat of one Christopher Pine,who now, is going to retire from politics. $456,000 a day to have C.P. Just walk away on a magnificent pension. Now that’s what I call a good return on investment.
    [ $50,000 ,000,000.00 divided by 1095 days since Pine won his seat to retirement ]

    220

    • #
      Hivemind

      That’s nothing. In the ACT government, the Labor party are wasting $1B to buy the vote of a single Greens member. $700M for the tram to run the short distance from Gungahlin to Civic, plus $300M for bad management.

      And worst of all, he refuses to leave after all the damage he’s done.

      110

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Yes but dont forget this critical point in all this……

      Without apparent collusion by:

      - govt at multipke layers
      - business
      - NGOs
      - the Establishment
      - the occult UN

      This couldnt have happened.

      110

  • #
    el gordo

    ‘Why do we allow a few companies to own so many different and competing generators across the entire market?’

    Its laissez faire economics.

    60

    • #
      Serp

      Yep, open slather. It’s hard to believe there could be found a worse run electrical distribution system though you searched the globe and having so many crony quangos overseeing it guarantees its chaotic lurching to inevitable destruction. It’s the rudderless meandering to a halt to be expected of any leaderless nation albeit somewhat unexpected outside the third world.

      70

  • #
    Destroyer D69

    If we had Right of Recall this situation could have been nipped in the bud before it came to pass. The possibility of a voter challenge to the actions of the minister would have made a great deal more consideration of the decision before foisting it on the country.

    90

  • #
    PeterS

    Oh well perhaps the two major parties can be trained better at propaganda from Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (aka AOC). The way she is going the Democrats might not even exist in years to come. We could ask her to do the same with the LNP and ALP+Greens.

    See PLT

    and AOC is the gift that keeps on giving

    120

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Pet food Cannery in Wodonga had to shutdown yesterday because of the high price so I imagine they would have today and by the look of it maybe tomorrow if they work Saturday.
    The Socialist minister for blackouts must have been pooping bricks hoping there were no blackouts .

    161

    • #
      GD

      Outer suburbs of Geelong, including Leopold, were blacked out about 5.30 – 6.30pm. The initial warning estimated the power would be out till 10.30pm.
      Just another normal hot day in Victoria.

      I warned Energy Minister Lily D’Ambrosio two years ago that this would be happening if they went ahead with plans to close coal stations and build more wind and solar.

      Oh no, she assured me in her reply (her staffer’s reply). ‘The power supply will never be in doubt.’

      170

  • #
    Speedy

    As any yachtie knows, the wind is free, but it’s the sails that drive you broke.
    Cheers,
    Speedy

    250

  • #
    Mark M

    25 Feb, 2019: A near-record number of Victorian households has had their electricity disconnected because they can’t afford to pay the bills.

    https://twitter.com/7NewsMelbourne/status/1100300173308129281

    140

    • #
      Mark M

      Get ready to see large rollouts of NEW HUGE transmission grid towers all over Victoria country areas for the new expensive windfarms.
      They cost a FAR more than even conventional transmission lines because they need to be robust/handle erratic wind surges …

      Rural Victoria’s power networks set to buckle under weight of wind energy

      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-17/rural-victoria-power-networks-to-buckle-under-wind-energy/10808534

      140

      • #
        el gordo

        The free marketeers are running rough shod over the consumers, governments should keep a tight reign on the poles and wires.

        In China the state owns 46% of the country’s electrical generation assets and 90% of the electrical supply assets.

        100

      • #
        David Wojick

        Here’s an odd quote from that article. Says coal caused the blackout:

        “The extra supply couldn’t come soon enough for the Victorian Government. Last month power was cut to hundreds of thousands of homes and businesses as the state failed to supply enough power on a day of record heat. A series of factors, including infrastructure failures in coal and gas plants, forced the AEMO to ‘load shed’ to prevent the entire system from failing. “While units were falling over in our coal-fired power stations, renewable energy was going strong,” Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews said at the time.”

        50

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          ““While units were falling over in our coal-fired power stations, renewable energy was going strong,” Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews said at the time.”

          Dont you love Soviet Era styled propaganda?

          120

        • #
          Maptram

          Renewables, particularly solar, were going strong, because of the weather conditions at the time of the blackouts. As we often hear, these weather conditions were caused by climate change

          40

    • #
      mikewaite

      I do not have a twitter account so cannot find out what happens to the people disconnected.
      How can they cook food, or heat water to maintain personal and domestic hygiene, in such circumstances.
      At least in Victorian Britain we had the workhouses to provide some support, bleak houses though they were.
      What safety net is in place in the Australian Victoria?

      100

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        In Germany, and I assume other countries in the EU, those cut off from electricity burn wood for heat. German foresters were advised 2 years ago to lock up any trees felled. There has been an outbreak of illegal logging in the UK as well.
        Russia (alone) exports 1.5 million tons of wood pellets into the EU every year, about two thirds are for power stations (because burning wood doesn’t emit CO2 according to EU rules) but the other third gets packed for ‘small’ users.

        A lot of poor Germans live in apartment blocks with Welfare payments. They are apparently entitled to free LED lighting.
        There is also natural gas which is used extensively for heating esp. for water ‘boilers’ which circulate hot water through apartment blocks. The circulating pump is driven by electricity but I assume that there is some rule that prevents all the inhabitants freezing. Centralised HW units burn household waste e.g. ‘recycled’ material (again non CO2 emitting by EU rules).

        I think that the EU will shortly issue regulations reducing the capacity of wood burners. Can’t have people warm and able to boil a (non electric) kettle quickly.

        70

      • #
        Bobl

        We had a similar circumstance once with extended outages, you use a barbecue, you can make a simple $10 solar water heater with a black bucket and some irrigation tubing filled up each morning, enough for showering with. A couple of solar panels and a car battery along with some caravan/camping appliances can give you a few luxuries and a fridge, so yes its not easy but living off grid without a generator is possible.

        Indeed I use some of these ideas just to reduce my daytime consumption to under 100W so I can maximise my solar exports and milk the feed in tariff, yes I’m sorry I am unashamedly milking the Queensland government for all I can get and I don’t care because I’m only just getting back a small part of the overpriced government taxes and charges Queensland charges. Water charges here are over the top.

        30

        • #
          RickWill

          Your export reduces the average price as it drives down the cost of LGCs – the payment from electricity consumers to the owners of grid scale subsidy farms.

          Latest LGC price was AUD38.5. A long way from the $90+ just over a year ago.

          20

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Behind paywall in the Australian, Sundrop solar farm has failed to reach its target capacity of 39 mw and according to the blurb investors want out .

    110

  • #
    Sceptical Sam

    In other news a few days ago, the retail price of electricity rose 16% in Victoria and the number of disconnections rose 21%.

    Isn’t it amazing how the guilty seek to shift the blame.

    Governments (though COAG presumably) set the policy. The private sector responds to the policy. The private sector gets to carry the cross for the policy failure.

    Governments seem to be moving to a view that private investment should be always directed to the public (political) interest.

    Fools.

    They’re about to get a lesson.

    Just to remind, that view was identical to the view held by the German Workers’ Socialist Party in the lead up to 1939.

    120

  • #

    .
    ❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶
    ❶①❶①
    ❶①❶① . . . Why is Climate Science different? . . .
    ❶①❶①
    ❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶
    .

    Climate science is probably the only branch of science, that doesn’t look at absolute measurements.

    Climate science looks mostly at temperature anomalies.

    To calculate temperature anomalies, you need to use absolute temperatures.

    But Climate science then ignores the absolute temperatures, and concentrates on the temperature anomalies.

    Why?

    ====================

    I have actual absolute temperature data, for 216 countries. For each country, I have:

    1) the temperature of the average coldest month (winter)

    2) the temperature of the average month

    3) the temperature of the average hottest month (summer)

    For this article, I have sorted the data by the temperature of the average month.

    ====================

    There are 2 other important absolute temperatures, that you should know about:

    1) the average temperature of the land (averaged by area, for 216 countries), is 15.6 degrees Celsius (this is the red line on the graph)

    2) the average temperature that humans live at (averaged over the total population of the Earth), is 19.7 degrees Celsius (this is the blue line on the graph)

    Humans love the temperature to be warmer than the average land temperature. They choose to live in warmer places.

    There is plenty of cooler land around. Humans don’t want to live on the cooler land.

    But global warming will make the cooler land, warmer. It might become desirable.

    Countries with a lot of “cool” land, like Russia and Canada, will probably become the next world superpowers.

    I suggest that you learn to speak Russian, or Canadian.

    https://agree-to-disagree.com/why-is-climate-science-different

    111

    • #
      Serp

      Sorry Sheldon but, as so often, you’re demanding orders of magnitude more attention than I am prepared to allocate but I do admire your inventiveness.

      50

      • #

        That’s all right, Serp. I would hate to cause your brain to overheat. I will try to write you a geriatric level article.

        60

        • #
          Serp

          I look forward to it Sheldon with the proviso that you try hard not to kill me with kindness.

          60

        • #
          yarpos

          “geriatric level” seriously? you really think peoples brains stop working because they have a few years on board? you must see a dismal future for yourself

          30

          • #

            yarpos.

            I am no spring chicken. But I have an active brain.

            When I was at high school, there were not many computers. Computer programming was not considered to be a genuine job.

            I started a career in a very respectable semi-medical profession. I had to see patients. I hated it. I am not a “people” person.

            So after working for 2 years, I swapped to computer programming. The world had “woken up”, and realised that they needed computer programmers.

            I was soon writing computer programs in IBM Assembler (a VERY primitive computer language). And was responsible for a sizable part of the banking system of a whole country. I was responsible for transfering money into peoples bank accounts (like salaries, wages, pensions, automatic payments, etc). I was part of a very small team that implemented “direct debits”. I also helped to automate the stock exchange.

            More recently, I use my brain to annoy Alarmists. It helps to keep me “young”. You are as young as you feel.

            I do see a dismal future for myself. I am hoping to have my brain transferred to a robot body, in the near future. I predict that driverless cars will soon be replaced by “human brain” driven cars. A new job, that nobody else has thought of. Better than sitting in a retirement home.

            90

  • #
    pat

    take your pick:

    10 Feb: NSW Liberals: HELPING HOUSEHOLDS CUT POWER BILLS WITH CLEAN ENERGY
    Install solar-battery and battery systems with no upfront costs to lower bills and emissions.
    The NSW Liberals & Nationals Government will take the pressure off household energy costs by supporting the rollout of up to 300,000 new solar-battery and battery systems across the state over 10 years…

    The NSW Liberals & Nationals Government has already put downward pressure on bills by boosting all energy rebates by 20% and helping households save, on average, over $400 on their annual electricity bills by switching to a better deal through Service NSW’s free Energy Switch service…
    Under our plan, the Government will support the installation of up to 300,000 solar-battery and battery systems, with no upfront costs via interest-free loans.
    It is estimated that a family with a $500 quarterly electricity bill could save up to $285 a year on their bills while repaying the no interest loan…
    The batteries will add up to 3,000 megawatt hours of storage when the program is fully rolled out…
    The batteries will add up to 3,000 megawatt hours of storage when the program is fully rolled out…
    https://nsw.liberal.org.au/Our-Plans/Policies/HELPING-HOUSEHOLDS-CUT-POWER-BILLS

    Michael Daley, Labor: Our plan to protect our environment and address climate change
    Labor will introduce a Renewable Energy Target for NSW.
    By switching the NSW Government’s energy use to renewable sources, Labor will take another step to establish ***a reliable level of demand for renewable energy*** in NSW. This will provide certainty, which will assist renewable energy suppliers to make long-term investments…

    Labor will deliver cleaner and cheaper energy…
    Labor will deliver a total of 9 gigawatts of renewable energy by 2030…
    •Help an additional 500,000 households install roof-top solar panels, taking NSW to over 1 million solar households and
    •Help these households save up to $1000 per year on their electricity bills…

    •Create $9.5 billion of new infrastructure investment; and
    •Create an additional $5 billion of economic benefits.
    Labor’s plan will reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 18 million tonnes per year…
    Labor will support the roll-out of electric cars…
    Labor will support renewable energy jobs…
    https://www.michaeldaley.com.au/labor_s_plan_to_protect_our_environment_and_address_climate_change

    40

    • #
      Annie

      And where will all the money come from for all that?

      81

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      The Helegian Dialectic at play
      ( problem – reaction – solution)

      - Create a problem ( high cost of power)
      - Manage the reaction ( be sympathetic / crocodile tears)
      - Provide the solution ( steer foolish and gullible fibancially shell shocked voters to clean energy)

      Youve been done…..

      The bali b*mb was another example of this – australian voters wouldnt endorse getting mired down in Iraq, the bomb went off, the right patsies were blamed, people at the height of emotional hysteria endorsed the very thing they didnt want, but the Establushment did want…

      Youve been done….

      70

    • #
      Maptram

      As I posted in mid week unthreaded yesterday:

      For a person building a new home, or for a person who owns an all electric home, solar panels may save money

      However, many homes have some gas appliances, ducted heating, gas hot water, gas stove, sometimes a gas oven as well. For these houses, getting solar panels and leaving the gas connected would be a feel good option, making them feel good because they have solar, but really only running the fridge and air con from the solar, can’t even use the solar power for the lights because it’s dark when you need them. As well they would be paying for two connections.

      For anyone in such a house and serious about reducing their CO2 impact, they would remove all the gas appliances and replace them with all electric, but that would probably triple or more the cost, without considering all the costs and CO2 impacts of acquiring new appliances and disposal of the old.

      20

      • #
        Bobl

        You can easily use 12V led lighting on a car battery with a bit of 12v wiring around the house. Supercheap is your friend. I wired up a couple of rooms with 12v Cigarette lighter outlets to allow camping appliances and mobile phones to be recharged from a solar panel. These days you can get DVD players and low power TV sets.

        Solar lighting is easy.

        20

      • #
        Mark D.

        For anyone in such a house and serious about reducing their CO2 impact, they would remove all the gas appliances and replace them with all electric, but that would probably triple or more the cost, without considering all the costs and CO2 impacts of acquiring new appliances and disposal of the old.

        Maptram, how does all electric reduce the CO2 impact? You know that electrons do not grow on trees right?

        30

        • #
          Mark D.

          For anyone in such a house and serious about reducing their CO2 impact, they would remove all the gas appliances and replace them with all electric, but that would probably triple or more the cost, without considering all the costs and CO2 impacts of acquiring new appliances and disposal of the old.

          Should be in quotes

          00

  • #
    pat

    28 Feb: Breitbart: Energy, Climate Change Experts Weigh in on ‘Dangerous’ Green New Deal: ‘We Will No Longer Be America’
    by Penny Starr
    The House Western Caucus took on Democratic Socialist Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s (D-NY) Green New Deal at a hearing and press conference on Wednesday where they exposed the so-called climate change resolution that aims to transform the country’s economy and infrastructure.
    Rep. Paul Gosar (R-AZ), chairman of the caucus, called it a “socialist manifesto,” but some of those testifying at the hearing went further.
    “We will no longer be America if this is done,” Rick Manning, president of Americans for Limited Government, said…

    “The Green New Deal is really a nightmare,” Myron Ebell, director of global warming and international environmental policy at the Competitive Enterprise Institute, at the Competitive Enterprise Institute, said.
    “I’ve called it ‘back to the dark ages manifesto,’” Ebell said. “I recently started calling it the green leap backward because it’s so much modeled on the great leap forward that the Chinese Communist Party started in 1958.”
    “By the time it ended, I believe somewhere between 18 million and 55 million people died of starvation,” Ebell said.
    “The green leap backward is preposterous and everything we can do to ridicule it is justified,” Ebell said. “But just because it’s ridiculous and prosperous doesn’t mean that it’s not dangerous.”…
    Thomas Pyle, president of the American Energy Alliance, was not alone in concluding that the Green New Deal would hurt the very people it claims to help by drastically increasing energy and other costs for consumers, calling the plan “immoral.”
    “It’s an especial assault not just on Americans in general but upon rural Americans,” Ebell said.

    Marc Morano, the publisher of ClimateDepot.com, said at the hearing that the Green New Deal is neither “green” nor “new” and repeats the same alleged problems and solutions that the left has promoted for decades.
    “‘Global warming’ is merely the latest environmental scare with the same solutions of wealth redistribution and central planning,” Morano said in his testimony. “The ‘Green New Deal’ has very little to do with the environment or climate.”
    Morano called the plan “one big bowl of crazy” and warned that conservatives should not respond to it with an alternative but oppose it outright…READ ON
    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/02/28/energy-climate-change-experts-weigh-dangerous-green-new-deal/

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  • #
    pat

    28 Feb: The Conversation: The Green New Deal is already changing the terms of the climate action debate
    by Rebecca Willis, Researcher in Environmental Policy and Politics, Lancaster University
    (Disclosure: Rebecca Willis receives funding from the Economic and Social Research Council. She is an Associate of Green Alliance and a Trustee of the New Economics Foundation)
    What a splendid irony it would be if the enduring legacy of Donald Trump’s presidency was the Green New Deal – a radical, government-directed plan to transition the US to a socially just society with a zero-carbon economy…

    The UK has, for the past decade, thought of itself as a climate leader…
    But the UK’s approach – like so many other countries – is based on quiet consensus. So far, climate politics has been a polite conversation between government, industry and researchers, not a subject of heated debate in parliament.

    My research with UK politicians shows a reluctance to speak out on climate change, as many prefer a low-key approach – dressing up climate action in the language of economic policy and market mechanisms to avoid confrontation with colleagues, the electorate or the industries that risk losing out in the shift to a low-carbon economy.

    Some Members of Parliament even told me that they deliberately avoid mentioning climate change in speeches to the House of Commons or in their constituency, fearing it could backfire. One worried that he would be branded a “zealot”, and marginalised by his colleagues if he argued too vociferously in favour of climate action…
    https://theconversation.com/the-green-new-deal-is-already-changing-the-terms-of-the-climate-action-debate-112144

    1 Mar: Guardian: MPs debate climate after school strike – but only a handful turn up
    Government benches mostly empty for debate inspired by schoolchildren’s climate strike
    by Sandra Laville
    PIC: A handful of MPs debate climate change in the House of Commons
    In the week that the UK experienced its hottest ever winter day, just a handful of government MPs attended a debate on climate change in parliament on Thursday.
    Layla Moran, the Liberal Democrat MP for Oxford West and Abingdon, said she had secured the discussion after being inspired by the thousands of UK schoolchildren who went on strike over climate change this month and wanted to thank them for forcing MPs into action.

    Moran said climate change had not been debated in the main chamber of the House of Commons for two years. She spoke, however, to a chamber where the seats were predominantly empty. At points, as few as 10 MPs sat on government benches, although the opposition side was more occupied…
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/28/mps-debate-climate-after-school-strike-but-only-a-handful-turn-up

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      Serp

      The intrepid Pat navigating the treacherous moral quicksands of theconversation and thegrauniad to land catches for Jo’s readers, I dips me lid.

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    pat

    1 Mar: Reuters: White House drafts guidelines for panel questioning climate threat to security
    by Timothy Gardner
    The White House is advancing plans to form a presidential panel that will question science used in U.S. military and intelligence reports showing that human-driven climate change poses national security risks, according to a source briefed by participants in the negotiations.

    The National Security Council at the White House has been considering the formation of a climate panel that would likely be headed by William Happer, a retired Princeton University physics professor who says greenhouse gas emissions are good for the planet and who lacks a background in climate science…

    The NSC held a meeting on Feb. 22 to discuss the 12-member panel. Next the NSC will likely send participants a document for comment, the source said. Then there will likely be a deputies’ meeting and a cabinet meeting before President Donald Trump puts forward an executive order calling for the panel…
    Trump’s administration has pursued policies to boost output of oil, gas and coal and roll back emissions limits on power plants, cars and trucks…

    If the presidential panel is formed it would feature scientists including Steven Koonin, a New York University professor who has written editorials questioning whether climate science is settled and who served at the Department of Energy under President Barack Obama…

    The heads of four committees in the Democratic-led U.S. House of Representatives decried the panel and sent Trump a letter asking for the names of people on it.
    Such a panel would run counter to the “overwhelming scientific consensus on the causes and impacts of climate change,” the House chairs, Adam Smith, Frank Pallone, Raul Grijalva and Eddie Bernice Johnson, said in the letter.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-congress-climate/white-house-drafts-guidelines-for-panel-questioning-climate-threat-to-security-idUSKCN1QI385

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    pat

    catastrophic drought, catastrophic snow, catastrophic rain:

    28 Feb: Buzzfeed: Photos Show California Residents Paddling Around As Catastrophic Floods Turn Towns Into Islands
    An intense atmospheric river event sparked catastrophic floods, stranding Northern California communities and damaging thousands of homes.
    by Brianna Sacks
    Days of unrelenting heavy rains have transformed Northern California communities into islands, stranding thousands of residents and submerging their homes, shops, and schools under several feet of brown water.

    The now-inundated towns were caught in what meteorologists call an atmospheric river — a long stretch of water vapor that transports and dumps heaps of moisture like a “river in the sky.” The phenomenon can carry roughly the equivalent to “the average flow of water at the mouth of the Mississippi River,” US scientists say (LINK), and when combined with strong winds, can lead to incredible rainfall and flooding.

    The incessant storms warped Sonoma County’s Russian River, swelling it to nearly 46 feet — 14 feet above flood stage — and turning the towns of Guerneville and Monte Rio into islands, authorities said. It was the worst flooding the area has seen in more than two decades…

    California Gov. Gavin Newsom declared a state of emergency in Sonoma and five other Northern California counties on Thursday, freeing up funds “to help communities respond to and recover from severe winter storms that have caused flooding, mudslides, erosion, power outages, and damage to critical infrastructure.”

    A week earlier, the new governor issued emergency proclamations for 21 other counties across the state still unearthing themselves from record-breaking winter storms and snowfalls…

    ***While it’s been years since Northern California has experienced such intense, damaging floods, scientists say that, because of a warming climate, we could see more of these wetter atmospheric events that drench the ground, sparking floods and mudslides…

    While it’s normal for California to experience heavy rainfall events, as the climate warms, atmospheric river-fueled storms are delivering more precipitation than we have seen in the past.
    As a result, California’s wet season may get shorter but more intense, wreaking havoc on communities and infrastructure.

    “We were on track to have the driest period on record in California until Thanksgiving weekend and then these storms took off and now we are on track to be the wettest,” Ullrich said. “It’s pretty wild.”
    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/briannasacks/california-flooding-russian-river-weather-storm-climate

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    pat

    28 Feb: WSJ: Show Us Your Climate Risks, Investors Tell Companies
    Companies are expected to face a record of 75 or more climate-related shareholder proposals at coming annual meetings
    by Gabriel T. Rubin
    Companies are under more pressure than ever to disclose their exposure to climate-change risks.
    In the coming annual-meeting season, companies are projected to face a record of 75 or more climate-related shareholder proposals, up from 17 in 2013, according to ISS Analytics, the data-intelligence arm of Institutional Shareholder Services. Investing powerhouses such as BlackRock Inc. and Vanguard Group are separately backing voluntary climate-change reporting standards for public companies and hope to prompt an uptick in disclosures this spring…

    Beyond individual company initiatives, BlackRock, Vanguard, State Street Global Advisors and others are among institutional investors backing the Sustainability Accounting Standards Board, a nonprofit organization that wants to standardize and increase corporate environmental disclosures. The group in November formally released a set of voluntary standards companies can follow.
    “What we’re trying to do is maximize the value of the companies in the portfolio, protect the downside, and move the needle in a direction that we think reflects important material issues company by company,” Barbara Novick, a BlackRock senior executive, said in a Feb. 7 Washington speech.
    The Financial Stability Board, an international consortium of regulators, is separately tracking voluntary climate reporting and will issue a report this June…

    Some companies are taking an additional step by making climate-related pledges. Glencore PLC, one of the world’s biggest coal producers, said in February that it would cap its output of the fossil fuel. Royal Dutch Shell PLC, Europe’s largest oil-and-gas company, bowed to shareholder demands in December to set emission-reduction targets from the use of its products…

    Some investors, Democratic politicians and environmental groups are pushing for mandatory disclosures…
    “You’re not going to get proper disclosure without some sort of mandate,” said Jill Fisch, a University of Pennsylvania Law School professor who co-authored a petition for rule-making at the SEC ***on behalf of several public retirement funds, including those from California, New York and Illinois…

    ***However, mandating disclosures that rely on ***speculative long-term predictions about climate change could expose companies to fraud liability, said J.W. Verret, a professor at George Mason University’s Antonin Scalia Law School and a member of the SEC’s Investor Advisory Committee…
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/show-us-your-climate-risks-investors-tell-companies-11551349800

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    pat

    NOT behind paywall. lengthy, and funny:

    28 Feb: NYT: What’s Going On in This Graph?
    Teach About Climate Change With These 24 New York Times Graphs
    By Michael Gonchar
    NOTE: Join us for our free webinar about teaching with graphs from The New York Times. Date: Wednesday, March 20 at 4 p.m. Eastern Time. Register here.

    Climate change is a gradual process. If you simply measure air temperature, atmospheric carbon dioxide or sea-ice thickness in any given year, you won’t be able to see the full picture of how the planet’s weather patterns are changing. That’s why graphs showing change over time can be such a powerful teaching resource to help students better understand climate trends…

    In the first section, we discuss teaching strategies for using these graphs in the classroom. In the second section, we present a collection of graphs organized by topic: melting ice, rising seas, changing ocean temperature, changing air temperature, rising carbon emissions, impacts on humans, intensifying storms and contradicting attitudes…

    The philosophy behind our approach is to let students begin analyzing graphs with the skills they will most naturally and successfully use — simple noticing and wondering. From there, students can simultaneously build confidence and acquire new conceptual understanding. Over time, as their critical thinking skills develop and their vocabulary grows, students’ analyses become more sophisticated…
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/28/learning/teach-about-climate-change-with-these-24-new-york-times-graphs.html

    everyone’s a CAGW expert!

    1 Mar: Scotsman: Independence would help us stop burning ‘Scotland’s oil’
    by Joyce McMillan (Columnist and theatre critic – Twitter)
    Gaining independence from the UK would provide the best chance for Scotland to wean itself off its remaining reserves of black gold, writes Joyce McMillan
    It’s true that Scotland has had, and still has in reserve, massive fossil fuel wealth. Yet this new period of opportunity for Scotland’s independence movement coincides with a moment when the world has a tough but essential choice to make, between continuing to burn fossil fuels and watching ***the end of the stable climatic conditions that have made human life on Earth possible, or simply leaving the remaining gas and oil in the ground…
    https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/independence-would-help-us-stop-burning-scotland-s-oil-joyce-mcmillan-1-4881400

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    pat

    behind paywall:

    1 Mar: UK Times: £1bn power line will be out of action for weeks
    by Mike Wade
    The £1.1 billion underwater energy link between Scotland, England and Wales will be out of action for at least a fortnight, with no date set for its repair.
    The Western Link interconnector, which ministers once called the “perfect symbol” of Britain’s single electricity market, failed last week leaving consumers to pay up to £2.4 million in compensation, known as constraint payments, to wind farm companies. The link is a main element in the Scottish government’s green energy strategy, routing electricity southwards and enabling imports when generation in Scotland is low.

    Its operators, National Grid and Scottish Power, yesterday said that they aimed “to share likely timescales early [next] week” but offered no indication of when it would be working again. Critics have called for an inquiry. Stretching from Hunterston in Ayrshire to Connah’s Quay in Deeside, Flintshire, the interconnector became fully operational in October, three years behind schedule. It has yet to be handed over to its operators by a construction consortium of Siemens and Prysmian…
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/39f14160-3b9e-11e9-a664-d81d3e2c8975

    28 Feb: Reuters: Lawmakers launch inquiry into future of UK energy investment
    by Nina Chestney
    A committee of British lawmakers has launched an inquiry into the outlook for future investment in energy infrastructure in Britain after two nuclear projects were halted, it said on Thursday.
    Last month, Japan’s Hitachi put a $28 billion nuclear power project in Britain on hold, dealing a blow to the country’s plans for the replacement of ageing plants and coalplant closures.
    Another Japanese firm, Toshiba Corp., scrapped its British NuGen project last year after its U.S. reactor unit Westinghouse went bankrupt and it failed to find a buyer…

    The Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Committee said it will look at whether the government needs a new approach to accelerate investment in a future low-carbon energy system.
    The inquiry will also likely examine ways of financing future nuclear plant new-builds and concerns over foreign investors in the sector.

    “In the wake of investment decisions over nuclear plants at sites such as Moorside and Wylfa, ***a giant hole has developed in UK energy policy,” said Rachel Reeves, chair of the committee.
    “A bigger shift in our energy infrastructure to a low-cost, low-carbon energy system is necessary,” she added.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/britain-energy-investment/lawmakers-launch-inquiry-into-future-of-uk-energy-investment-idUSL5N20N565

    blame everything on Brexit. might CAGW policies play a part in the collapse of EU manufacturing?

    1 Mar: UK Express: Europe plunged into ECONOMIC CRISIS as Brexit fears DEVASTATE manufacturing
    By Paul Withers; Additional reporting by Monika Pallenberg
    The latest survey result from IHS Markit revealed the eurozone manufacturing index slumped to 49.3 from 50.5 registered in January – below the 50 line that divides expansion and contraction. Two European powerhouses currently experiencing deep financial crises, Germany and Italy, were the main drivers in dragging down the overall reading. Germany’s PMI score fell to 47.6 points last month from 49.7 in January – the worst barometer value in more than six years…

    Italy, which tumbled into recession at the start of this year, saw its reading edge down marginally to 47.7 points from 47.8.
    Spain’s rating plummeted to five-year low of 49.9, with the Netherland’s barometer score falling to 52.7 – the worst in nearly three years.
    In the UK, the PMI score fell to a four-month low of 52 points in February, down from 52.6 in January.
    Growth improved slightly in France, albeit only marginally, from 51.2 in January to 51.5 last month…

    Mr Akincilar warned: “For years, European manufacturing was much like the football World Cup – there was always a sense of the inevitability of German triumph. No longer.
    “Germany’s manufacturers have been hit by a triple whammy of falling Chinese demand, concerns over a hard Brexit and increasing protectionism.
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1094303/eurozone-news-europe-economy-brexit-news-latest-germany-car-manufacturing-trade-wars

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    pat

    1 Mar: UK Express: Justin Trudeau IGNORES Conservative demands for resignation – ‘He lacks moral authority’
    EMBATTLED Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau swerved calls for his resignation amid a scandal which threatens to bring down his government.
    By Tom Nellist
    Mr Scheer’s comments came moments after Ms Wilson-Raybould, the woman at the centre of the storm, stunned Canada in a bombshell testimony to the justice committee by confirming she was the target of “veiled threats” to “politically interfere” with criminal proceedings.
    The Vancouver politician said she was pressured to pursue a deferred prosecution agreement against SNC-Lavalin as a criminal conviction against the firm would have barred it from bidding on federal contracts for 10 years, forcing thousands of job losses and the potential relocation to Britain.
    Mr Trudeau’s government feared that would decimate his chances in the upcoming general election.

    However the scandal threatens to topple the Prime Minister before the campaign trail has even launched after Mr Scheer’s comments…
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1094162/justin-trudeau-resign-snc-lavalin-scandal-canada-conservative-party-andrew-scheer

    Wikipedia: SNC-Lavalin Group Inc. is a Montreal-based company that provides engineering, procurement, and construction (EPC) services in various industries including; mining and metallurgy, oil and gas, environment and water, infrastructure, and clean power. The firm has 50,000 employees worldwide with offices in over 50 countries and operations in over 160 countries.

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    Morphy

    Just out of interest – and I have noticed this before now – why is WA never mentioned?

    Where does WA fit on the costs chart there?

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    Dennis

    Morrison’s 50pc renewable target

    ALAN KOHLER
    The Coalition now has an effective renewable energy target of at least 50 per cent, the same as Labor.

    The Weekend Australian

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    Dennis

    Why all the resignations?

    “In 2015, a change in the pension for MPs ensures that the age of full retirement for an MP having served at least 6 years, will no longer be 55 years but 65 years. Thus any MP not yet 65 and who wants to benefit from the present pension scheme need only not run in the next election and thus will draw for 10 years longer, a government pension of over $100,000 per year.
    For elected MPs approaching 55 and who are not running, this means about $1 million that they would not receive should they run and win again. One should also add the severance premium (between $80,000 and $125,000) upon their departure.”

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      el gordo

      So it has nothing to do with Malcolm’s rats leaving a sinking ship.

      Does the MSM know about this?

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        Dennis

        From Bolt Blog Daily Telegraph

        More ALP members have resigned in the last couple of years than the combined Liberal National team and half are women.

        ALP resignations

        1. Emma Husic
        2. Jacinta Collins
        3. Jenny Macklin
        4. Gail Rodmann
        5. Kate Ellis
        6. Michael Davis
        7. Federal Labor Member for Perth Tim Hammond quits for family reasons
        8. Senator Sam Dastyari quits over Chinese influence (December 2017)
        9. WA Labor senator Joe Bullock quits over SSM (March 2016)
        10. Doug Cameron

        5 women and 5 men

        Liberal & Nationals

        1. Christopher Pyne
        2. Steve Ciobo
        3. Micheal Keenann
        4. Kelly O’Dwyer
        5. Julie Bishiop
        6. Julie Banks (on the crossbench)
        7. David Busby
        8. Andrew Broad
        9. Nigel Scullen

        In 2013 remember when Shorten moved to remove Gillard as leader to reinstall Rudd this list of ministers resigned and some left politics.

        1. Greg Combet
        2. Peter Garrett
        3. Craig Emerson
        4. Stephen Smith
        5. Simon Crean
        6. Stephen Conroy
        7. Joe Ludwig
        8. Kim Carr
        9. Don Farrell

        Then there many now who rather be a swinging member Banks Latham, Lambie, Mundine etc.

        Both parties go through a change of the guard some like Pyne have been in politics for 25 years and has racked up a great pension as has the majority listed above.

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    Peter C

    Has anyone else tried to open Jo’s link to the market share graph?

    I got a message to say that I was not authorised to view the page.

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      Dennis

      The future world of power, hybrid vehicles with petrol powered generators on board, electric vehicles with a petrol powered generator on board, homes with petrol or diesel generator on stand by, diesel generators on stand by in government and business premises and diesel generators on stand by the stabilise the electricity grid.

      No wonder Labor Opposition Leader promises to provide “fuel farms” of storage tanks if Union controlled Labor is elected to government.

      But no coal and gas, Australia must adhere to the Paris Agreement emissions reduction target.

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    robert rosicka

    Two of the biggest Socialist propaganda mediums , the ANU and the ABC have been hard at work bringing you the latest in climate scares .

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-02/the-future-of-farming-in-the-era-of-climate-change/10852926

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    DaveR

    The snapshot at 4:15pm above shows NSW needing to draw over 1,000 mWh from Queensland to meet demand, and Victoria drawing 478 Mwh power from mainly Tasmania to meet its own demand, but also exporting power to SA. The result is that Vic and SA are almost behaving as a single market, courtesy of the interconnects.

    Surprisingly, NSW is the state with the biggest supply shortfall – 1,045 mWh, more than twice the shortfall for Victoria – 391 mWh. But NSW kept its demand price low compared to the disaster zone of Vic-SA.

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      robert rosicka

      That couldn’t have anything to do with SA and VIC blowing up coal fired power plants and installing wind mills and solar .
      Hope tassie has some water left in their dams otherwise the battery of the nation are about to find out what happens to batteries when they run out of power .

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        OriginalSteve

        Im already started thinking about drafting a prosecution framework for the coming Climate Nuremberg Trials.

        It will be a big job. Achievable though.

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    David Maddison

    Last night there was a power failure in my area in Melbournistan presumably because the “renewables” poisoned grid couldn’t handle the 40C or so heat. Interestingly it only affected some of the three phases as my neighbours were without power but I did have power.

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    pat

    no-one from the reality side, as theirABC gets excited over the phase-out of the petroleum age.
    no-one in the world is building coal-fired power plants, says Jaffe. maybe just one or two, he adds. has to be heard to not be believed:

    AUDIO: 21min37sec: 2 Mar: ABC Saturday Extra: Geraldine Doogue: The race to build a better battery
    The economies that once thrived off the petroleum age will soon no longer do so, and in their place wealth is set to flow along the supply chain of batteries and the technologies they enable.
    This projected shift in the distribution of wealth and power has sparked a global race to build a ‘super battery’.
    Meanwhile, demand for lithium-ion batteries continues to increase, and their application to electric vehicles, large-scale batteries and household batteries is changing the way that we think about energy storage.
    Guests:
    Giles Parkinson, founder of RenewEconomy, an independent website with a focus on clean energy and climate policy.
    Sam Jaffe, founder and managing director of Cairn Energy Research Advisors, based in Boulder, Colorado, USA.
    https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/saturdayextra/batteries/10858198

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    David Maddison

    Coal is renewable. You just have to dig up more to renew your supply. There is so much that for practical purposes the supply is essentially infinite at present rates of consumption, at least for centuries in any case.

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    pat

    Australians need to become more radical and learn how to protest
    Courier Mail – 3 minutes ago
    Former Australian politician and environmentalist Dr Bob Brown is planning a convoy to protest against the Adani coal mine.

    Protest-hit Adani says prosecute the ‘zealots’
    Courier Mail – 10 hours ago
    Adani wants to see “anti-coal zealots” prosecuted after deliveries to its north Queensland port were disrupted for more than 24 hours, warning lives could be lost…

    1 Mar: Daily Herald: Police squads brought in over Adani activists
    by Kyle Evans
    AN INCREASED police presence is around Bowen following the arrival of a large activist group looking to take “radical non-violent action” against Adani.
    “A surge of police numbers” has been brought up from Mackay to respond to activists who, over the past 18 months, have carried out a number of inactivities around Bowen…

    Bowen Police Senior Sergeant Craig Shepherd: “They periodically carry out activities on the rail corridor or the port or illegally trespass upon sites and set up blockades,” he said.
    “Through their own social media they’ve advertised that they intend to take action against the port.”
    A public safety response team, a tactical crime squad, and extra traffic units are among those included in the increased presence. Also on hand are specialised police “cutters” trained in cutting off devices used to lock onto infrastructure.
    Sen Sgt Shepherd said police would pay close attention to the group who were currently based at an activist camp outside of town…

    Police have closely monitored the full-time activist camp which they say is used as a training ground to target infrastructure around ports and railways.
    He urged both protesters and locals alike to obey the law or risk being arrested…
    https://www.dalbyherald.com.au/news/increased-police-presence-around-bowen/3660254/

    27 Feb: news.com.au: Adani mine protesters get fines slashed
    A Queensland court has reduced the fines of nine protesters who locked themselves to equipment at the Adani Abbot Point coal terminal.
    by Christine Flatley
    A group of nine protesters who twice shut down the Adani Abbot Point terminal by locking themselves onto a coal loading machine have successfully fought to have their fines cut.
    The men and women – aged between 19 and 71 – were each fined $8000 in Bowen Magistrates Court after pleading guilty to trespassing and interfering with the ports operation in January 2018…
    The court heard the disruption cost the terminal users almost $7.5 million…

    In a written judgment published this week, the District Court in Townsville reiterated that the offences were “serious and dangerous”, but took into account the limited financial means of some of the protesters.
    The court reduced all the fines to $3000 or less.
    https://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/adani-mine-protesters-get-fines-slashed/news-story/b7537e0d4ea53d475aa04d0e84b2c753

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      Bobl

      The prosecutions need to be extended from the useful idiots to the conspirators, the organisers of these things, and damages should include compensation for damage caused, IE 7.4 million dollar fine.

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      OriginalSteve

      You will hear the convoy coming from miles away….like an old diff, you will hear the whining as it gets closer… .

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    Lance

    One may rail against the tide, or one may take action.

    There is no way in Hel* that the AU Govt will keep the lights on.

    What the Govt will do is: Blame everyone else but themselves, pass all costs on to the tax/rate payer, flail their green religion to the press, and abdicate all responsibility whilst demanding to be re-elected so they can save you from them or some imaginary foil.

    If you sit back and watch, you will be no better off than a virgin sheep amongst “Asian” herders on a sultry day.

    It might be better to force the issue on consumer terms.

    Quietly agree to energize every single thing possible on a pre-planned time and date where the temps are high and wind is small. Force a crash of the grid. Do this a time or two and the “gullible” population will have no choice but to to admit the renewable schemes don’t work.

    Reality is a harsh teacher. Yes it will cause pain. But it is a certain way to demonstrate the fragility of the illusions being passed off as panacea for actual grid demand vs actual supply and reserves.

    Just a thought. It will happen. Sooner or later, with or without advance planning.

    Your grid is simply too under powered, too unreliable, and too fragile to withstand reality.

    Or we could call my brother. He simply loves to watch train wrecks.

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    Peter Fitzroy

    Is it reasonable, to blame renewables for this mess? They have less than 10% of the total generation pie (14% if you include hydro). As the post states, the big winners are the retailers, particularly those with some vertical integration. Our parliaments, both federal and state, have mucking about with energy security, hot air and distractions is all they do.

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      Lance

      Yes, Fitz, it is reasonable to blame renewables for this mess. Here is why.

      The 10% of total generation you refer to is not uniformly distributed. It is quite concentrated in some areas and not in others.

      As of 2017, 46% of the wind power was located in SA, 37% in Victoria. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_Australia

      That 46% is extraordinarily destabilizing to the electric grid in SA as is 37% in Victoria.

      If the original grid in Victoria was thermal powered, and 37% of it was offset by renewable wind power, and if 20% of Victoria’s power was supplied by the Hazelwood plant that was shuttered, then only 43% thermal power is available to back up 37% of wind power. That’s a dicey game at best.

      https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/closure-of-hazelwood-power-plant-will-have-a-major-impact/news-story/c61e716c09c2edd8e64efbd056f16ec7

      You can argue about interconnectors and such. But that is an excuse trying to cover for a lack of reliable generation. Relying upon an interconnector simply means you don’t have sufficient power in your own area and have to import it. It might be for economic dispatch reasons, if the generation is reliable, but when it such generation is unreliable, it isn’t economic dispatch, it is an excuse and a crutch to explain away the deficiencies of the claimed system.

      You can argue about who wins and loses but the final outcome is that Citizens Lose.

      There is NO WAY in HEL* that intermittent sources can reliably power a grid at affordable prices. Storage is not economical. Conversion is not economical. Disposal costs of solar panels and failed wind turbines are not considered, etc, etc.

      Just a thought.

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        Yonniestone

        When we take out any large continuous energy source we lose the valuable spinning reserve of those rotors resulting in lagging electrical production when its needed to compensate for intermittent electrical production.

        Remember 50 hertz, https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/235502/how-do-power-stations-maintain-50-hertz

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        Peter Fitzroy

        Lance even though wind is predominantly located in the southern states, there is not that much of it, compared to the demand. TonyfromOz is the goto for that information. My point remains, by a combination of variable supply, which pushes up spot prices, a refusal to refurbish, renew or replace existing generation capacity, which improves the profit margin, we are being played for fools. These companies are making massive profits aided and abetted by this bait and switch.

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          Lance

          No. You are wrong.

          There is no “refusal to refurbish, renew or replace existing generation capacity”.

          There is a refusal to “remain in a marketplace when the Govt has removed all incentives and protections that allow a business to be profitable”.

          The AU Govt has decreed that Utility Companies must ABSORB all losses created by the Govt Mandated Renewables Scheme for the sole purpose of Virtue Signaling and reality disconnected short term political gains that are aided and abetted by economically and technologically illiterate pawns.

          No business would tolerate such hogwash. No One. This is a business decision. If I/we can’t turn a profit, we exit the market. Period.

          The people making the profit, as you define, are not the power generators. The people making the profit are the power manipulators.

          This situation has nothing to do with “climate change” or any other horsecrap. It is about “playing the fools for all they are worth until it is time to leave someone else holding the bag”.

          Utility companies don’t make 50 year investments on a whim. Nor do they absorb losses to subsidize someone else who is making politically mandated profits. They simply shut down. “If you don’t want what I make, I’ll close up shop and go elsewhere”.

          Get real. The market distortion is completely politically motivated.

          You had reliable, affordable power for the last 60+ years. Along come renewables. Now you pay out the As* for power. Think about it.

          Your Govt sold you out for Political reasons and profits. Your Utilities didn’t.

          The “bait and switch” is a completely politically driven event. It simply means the Pollies viewed you as a sheep. Something to be eaten, shorn, or Fuc*ed.

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          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            Those utility companies are very profitable, and as I have explained that is not the fault of variable production.

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            • #
              Lance

              “not the fault of variable production”.

              by Whom?

              The non dispatchable, unreliable, producers are extremely profitable, through no reliable nor dispatchable production of their own.

              Fitz, you cannot win a reality bounded discussion by claiming irrelevant comparisons.

              Try again. Evidently, you don’t understand free markets or constrained markets.

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              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Variables are 7% of total production vs 93% for the rest, explain how the tail wags to dog economically speaking.

                34

              • #
                Lance

                Once again, you compare irrelevant things.

                If the 7% you claim now,vs the 10% earlier, of electrical production is located in TWO AU states and comprises 83% of total production capacity, BUT they enforce a 50% uneconomical ROI for dispatchable production, THEN you claim the tail wags the dog.

                Your logic is baffling.

                You take a coherent, stable, useful, generation base and then try to explain away the runaway costs of unreliables, then you try to conflate this situation with a totality of generation as compared to a totality of dispatchable supply, then you try to blame the dispatchable suppliers for the inability of the intermittent suppliers for the cost of the intermittency.

                I’ve got to hand it to you, Fitz. Never in my entire 62 years have I ever heard such a total load of Bovine Excrement.

                Please do enjoy the aftermath. I have the fortune of not having to live with the hell on earth you are defending.

                On the other hand, I do have to fear what thinkers like you espouse.

                That is precisely why America has a 2nd Amendment. When all else in reason and fact may fail, we can still solve the problem.

                Have a very nice illusion. You’re going to need it.

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              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                firstly I said less that 10% (7% is the generally accepted figure for Both wind and solar), I was trying to be generous to you. In most tables wind is around 5.7%. Now the 83 % production statement. By States: In South Australia it is around 22% and has a target of 30% by 2020. In Victoria it is around 3% with a target of 18% (mostly in a huge offshore installation) . So although the 2 southern states represent a large fraction of installed capacity, wind is not a major producer yet. That is why I’m saying that it is the tail wagging the dog.

                But you have not really understood my major point, which is that as long as you maintain your myopic focus on variables, you are not seeing what is really going on. Generators are running their existing equipment into the ground, citing renewables, but it is more about short term profit. Government has a proverbial dog’s breakfast of initiatives, but no coherent policy behind them. No one, except in this forum, is urging a rational allocation resources to ensure energy security.

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            • #
              Ben

              Peter, I have a couple of points to add in this discussion, hopefully it helps!

              - average electricity bill has 30% generation cost and 45% network cost
              - wind and solar farms are cheap to run, obviously, but there is a floor price somewhere so the 30% can only fall so far
              - but wind and solar farms need massive investment in transmission, strengthening, backup etc just to keep the grid stable and avoid congestion
              - so more renewables means more network cost
              - but wind and solar don’t set the wholesale price – gas, hydro and coal do that – so as coal retires and renewables increase the high marginal cost generators have less market share and less MWh available to make money so their price goes up
              - the only way electricity bills go down is if the generation cost reduction is more than the network increase, which I think is unlikely and is borne out by the stats from the last decade

              That’s pretty simplified I admit but covers the basics.

              Why are electricity companies making so much money? Check out the AEMO bid stack, which ensures the spot price is set by the highest bid, then each participant receives that price regardless of their bid. So a big company with gas, coal, wind and solar assets all connected together is basically bidding with only one generator in each pricing zone, because they are assured of receiving that price for all their assets in that zone. As long as the individual bids for each generator are not interesting and don’t attract attention from the regulator it doesn’t matter what they bid.

              Then there’s the RET ensuring LGC as another income stream.

              I personally think semi-scheduled generators should have their own market, separated from the wholesale scheduled market.

              10

      • #
        Bobl

        And… as I continue to point out, wind and solar do NOT reduce CO2 emission when all energy and CO2 emission/sink effects are accounted for. There is NO point to them, they DON’T even address the supposed problem.

        But they are a good way to mine the energy cost differential between China and Australia, and legally fleece the QLD government. As I said state gov costs are so high that I am not at all concerned about getting a refund of my taxes.

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    • #
      Lance

      Let me simplify this. 83% of the wind power is located in 2 places: SA and WA.

      What happens when that 83% fails to produce on a windless or too windy day?

      There is no choice but to shed load, shed businesses, shed jobs, trip mains and go back to the 1800s.

      And this is somehow a desirable outcome?

      Get real.

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      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        Lance, the renewables are a symptom, they are not the disease. Without a clear policy for energy security, and piecemeal vote grabbing non-solutions we have clearly ended up with the worst of all possible outcomes.

        53

        • #
          Lance

          You have what you voted for and allowed.

          That’s it.

          Stupid people made stupid choices and played stupid games for stupid prizes.

          Now you own it.

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        • #
          Bobl

          My god some sense, they are a symptom of the ignorance of engineer erring reality, the result of putting climate scientists and green activists ahead of the engingeers in planning and delivering energy. Yes they are a symptom, a symptom of ignoring the math that shows renewables are useless for lowering CO2 and useless for generating reliable energy.

          Any dose of engineering reality shows that fossil fuels nuclear and where practical hydro are the only really viable grid scale technologies.

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          • #
            Bobl

            Grr, virtual keyboard strikes again

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          • #
            Peter Fitzroy

            The big problem with nuclear is that it has to account for all of its externalities, from the mining of the uranium, the processing to fuel, the use in the plant, and the disposal of both the fuel and now radioactive plant, which means that the full costs makes nuclear uneconomic, unless you want to produce warheads as well (those military types will pay lots for that). Coal is moving into the same position with more and more pressure to fully incorporate all the externalities. This is why the HELE plants are now flavours of the month. But HELE plants are only a partial solution for those pesky externalities. Hydro is almost fully built out, only boondoggles like pumped hydro are now being considered.

            This does not say there are not engineering solutions, but any new solution must account for all the externalities.

            25

            • #
              Mark D.

              which means that the full costs makes nuclear uneconomic,

              Are you certain? 1300% and growing should make things pretty economic soon.

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            • #
              Lance

              Yes, Please. Let us DO speak of “externalities”.

              Like:

              Child slavery to produce cobalt for LiIon batteries.

              Wastelands in China for extraction of Neodymium and other rare earths for magnets in Wind Turbines.

              50 Million metric tonnes of existing solar panel waste.

              Killing millions of raptors by wind and solar farms.

              De Commissioning of millions of wind turbine foundations.

              Yes, Fitz, let us do speak of externalities.

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              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                And the non-sequitur award goes too…

                Child slavery for cobalt: very true around 40,000 – out of the 210 million estimated world wide to be child slaves
                For wastelands: 1 10 sqkm tailing pond
                For solar waste: A report by the International Energy Agency and the International Renewable Energy Agency in 2016 found that recoverable materials from photovoltaic panel waste had a potential value of nearly $US15 billion by 2050. (couldn’t find a reference to the 50 million tons though)
                For Millions of raptors – really, extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof

                some other facts
                There are 60,000 abandoned mine sites in Australia. These sites affect local water tables, and with leaching affect production in surrounding farms.

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              • #
                Bobl

                I think you miss the point, people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones, renewable energy is messier than nuclear because it’s far more extensive. A contained poison isn’t a threat while it’s contained.

                Nuclear material is a poison, not even the worst one, it can be managed, personally launching the waste into the sun is my favourite solution.

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            • #

              For those who don’t have an up-to-date globalist dictionary…

              When you want someone to buy something which doesn’t work as opposed to something which does work you point to the “externalities” of the thing which works. If the “externalities” aren’t sufficiently crushing, more can be invented easily. It depends who’s writing the dictionary, doesn’t it?

              Imagine a premium resource for domestic power, local, accessible and in massive supply. Foreigners want to buy it in massive quantities. The trick is to say you’re all in favour of it for domestic use…but for those pesky “externalities”. If someone complains about Asian hardware for renewables (made with Australian coal), irregular power or none, business failures (now dogfood?), crippling costs, soaring bills, foreign resource entanglements and diesel dependence, you just explain that those things aren’t “externalities”, so it’s all cool. Not in the globalist dictionary. There’s bound to be a government brochure or GeeUp script you can quote.

              You can even say you’re all in favour of new HELE plants. Just so long as nobody builds ‘em. Externalities, doncha know.

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            • #
              Lance

              Nuclear power is constrained by Political Externalities. Not Engineering issues.

              It is the “choice” of nations to prefer uranium based boiling water reactors over other choices of cycles because of Political influence. Uranium reactors that are not allowed, politically, to reprocess fuel rods, waste some 50% or more of available energy because of the Politically enforced non-recycling of fuel rods to prevent plutonium proliferations. See Jimmy Carter.

              U235 reactors were Politically driven because they produce Plutonium and reinforce the weapons cycle.

              Molten salt thorium reactors can be, theoretically, near 100% efficient in terms of fuel usage AND can burn long lived nuclear wastes as part of the cycle.

              The obsession with HELE cycles rarely considers the operating cost of non linear fatigue failure in piping components. It is a tradeoff to be sure, but higher efficiencies in steam plants require higher temperatures and pressures and following that, increased maintenance and refit of piping that can go non linear (creep fatigue failure) after predictable periods of time.

              PU 239 is a problem for 250,000 years. Th wastes are a problem for 30 to 100 yrs. Which is preferable?

              Th cycles can destroy existing PU239 and U235 wastes, while creating U233 medical isotopes , is that not convenient?

              Th cycles, depending on the salt, Th-F, Th-Cl, Th-Br, can be tailored to a given design operating temperature ranging from super to sub critical steam pressures.

              There is enough Th in the world for some 35000 years of energy at a 4% increase in usage per year.

              There is only enough U235 to last perhaps 1000 years.

              Nuclear power is not a simple description. It is about Politics, Engineering, Physics, and waste cycle issues.

              To lump it all into a single, dismissive, post, is truly ignorant.

              Do some research on nuclear fuel cycles, waste handling, alternative “externalities” , and make a few efforts to compare them in an unbiased way. You might be surprised at the outcome.

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              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Fukushima, Chernobyl, Three Mile Island?

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              • #
                Mark D.

                Fukushima, Chernobyl, Three Mile Island

                Really even for you this is stupid. The mode of failure was completely different for each.

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              • #

                Huh!

                You’re drawing a pretty long bow, if you include TMI in with those other two.

                Read the article at this link, comparing TMI with Chernobyl.

                In reference to TMI, it states there that:

                The local population of 2 million people received an average estimated dose of about 1 millirem–miniscule compared to the 100-125 millirems that each person receives annually from naturally occurring background radiation in the area. Nationally, the average person receives 360 millirems per year. [5]

                No significant radiation effects on humans, animals, or plants were found. In fact, thorough investigation and sample testing of air, water, milk, vegetation, and soil found that there were negligible effects and concluded that the radiation was safely contained. [6] The most recent and comprehensive study was a 13-year evaluation of 32,000 people living in the area that found no adverse health effects or links to cancer. [7]

                The owner of the site I contribute at lives nearby in Harrsiburg PA, the site of TMI, and he tells me that there’s still a viewing area in the car park, hastily constructed after the event for viewers, and it’s directly opposite the site on River Road which runs parallel to the Susquehanna River. The plant itself is on a small island in the river, and the road runs on the shore side, barely 100 metres from the plant on the Island.

                Tony.

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              • #
                Peter Fitzroy

                Yep, and although TMI was only a partial – clean up cost a lot, more than the income for the plant. Same for the others.

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        • #
          yarpos

          I love this mantra of clear policy and certainty. Total BS.

          Look at the US. As usual , like everything else , their energy market is fragmented technically and commercially yet they have cheap power to burn (pun intended)

          Policy is BS, States do what they like. They used to be sane but now they trend toward stupid sh1t.

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        • #
          Lance

          Per Fitz : “Renewables are not the disease, they are a symptom. ” : WTF?

          No, Renewables ARE the Disease. they represent wishful thinking over reality. Unicorn farts and Pixie dust solutions to actual, real, problems.

          If they are a “symptom” , they are a symptom of navel gazing idiots who think their emotions and beliefs somehow supercede factual reality.

          Beliefs are not a substitute for reality.

          “Renewables” are not a substitute for actual power.

          Try solving a black start load flow on the AU grid and after you fail doing that, let’s talk about how real grids work. Eh?

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    • #
      RickWill

      Peter F asked:

      Is it reasonable, to blame renewables for this mess?

      Yes.

      Despite the pitifully small contribution to the overall market it has a huge impact on price. Intermittents have already caused the closure of two low cost coal generators. This occurs through them having priority access to the market. They bid at negative prices and stay connected, producing at their potential, unless there is stability concerns.

      At present there is a total of 5,661MW of wind and 10,131 registered solar. That gives a total of almost 16GW capacity in a system having average demand of 24GW. That means intermittents can have a huge influence on demand. In fact it is gradually destroying base load. So far two coal plants have succumbed and more will follow.

      It is not economic to build base load generation in a system where base load is being eroded by intermittents. South Australia already achieves minimum demand around midday compared with the more common 4am on a system not overwhelmed by intermittents.

      The cost of transmission and distribution increases about 3-fold with central generators because the intermittents have such low capacity factors. Despite having 30 % of the installed generating capacity they deliver less than 10% of the energy. So the networks need to be designed for their capacity rather than their average output. Regional distributors are now designing local networks to handle reverse power flow for lunchtime power from the high proportion of rooftop generators in some locations.

      This paper from ARENA, an advocate for intermittents, has some telling data on so-called DRE:
      https://arena.gov.au/assets/2018/10/Comparison-Of-Dispatchable-Renewable-Electricity-Options-ITP-et-al-for-ARENA-2018.pdf
      This paper excludes the overall system cost but gives a somewhat optimistic price for different periods of dispatchability and also brings in the concept of optimum overbuild in energy collection for dispatchable power. It at least acknowledges that LCOE is a meaningless number.

      So despite intermittents providing such a dismal share of the market, they have a huge influence on price.

      Anyone who owns a roof should be installing solar panel to take advantage of the massive transfer payments, as well as hastening the demise of the grid from an economic perspective. Anyone sitting on the sidelines waiting for the RET to be abolished gives governments more credit than they deserve.

      I operate both on-grid rooftop and off-grid with battery storage. I have made a very good return on investment over the last 8 years; making the most of federal and state largesse. I have a reasonable understanding of the technologies and the true costs.

      The greatest travesty is using the term “renewables”. Trying to run a modern economy solely on this source of energy would require all economic output to be directed at making electricity. There would be no place for any leisure or artistic endeavours. The present investment in the technology can only occur through Australia exporting coal to China to make panels and turbines. If we had to make them using our own labour and industrial inputs they would be closer to their unrealistic true cost.

      No one has planned this mess. It has occurred through the Howard government conceiving the RET then Rudd dramatically increasing the target without any knowledgable electrical systems or economic modelling. The system modelling underpinning the Finkel report is a sad joke. Any report that refers to LCOE as a means of comparison for dispatchables and intermittents is garbage.

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  • #
    BoyfromTottenham

    Lance, I like your idea to force the issue by community action, but looking at the responses by incumbent pollies about recent power outages / load shedding, they carefully phrase their comments to make it appear that the outages were caused by coal fired power stations inability to supply, rather than the huge and rapid variability of wind and solar being the problem. And the journos buy this cr@p without question and shove it in everyone’s face without a blush. I am afraid that exactly the same would happen in your case, i.e. achieving exactly the opposite of what you intend. You will have to think three or four steps ahead to beat these folk – they have been perfecting their propaganda methods since the Cold War, whereas most of us are just getting our heads around it all. But 10 points for trying!

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    pat

    calling hypocrisy on the CAGW mob’s long-time Big Oil friend:

    Shell carbon call riles Coalition
    The Australian – 13 Feb 2019
    Energy giant Shell has reignited climate tensions between big business and Canberra after its call for the reintroduction of a carbon price…

    13 Feb: AFR: ‘Treacherous’ climate politics means business must lead: Shell’s Zoe Yujnovich
    by Ben Potter and Angela Macdonald-Smith
    Shell’s head in Australia, Zoe Yujnovich, has urged business to take the lead on lowering greenhouse gas emissions to send strong signals to the next government to introduce carbon reduction policies.
    Ms Yujnovich told a Melbourne Mining Club lunch on Wednesday that business leaders had to lead from the front in the “thorny” area of climate and energy policy and encourage government, whatever its political persuasion, on the way forward.

    She told reporters later that because the politics had proven so ‘treacherous” business had to move forward on decarbonising operations to give governments “cover”.
    “In Shell of course we are already banking in a forward price on carbon, we are already starting to look at what we can do to lead within in our own existing assets to help improve the resiliency of our portfolio,” she said.
    “If we all did that collectively it would help that bipartisan support which ultimately has been fractured by … a political divide.”

    Pointing to political tensions over climate and energy ahead of the federal election, Ms Yujnovich said the poll should signal to legislators what Australians want: cross party-agreement on policies in this area…

    Part of Shell’s “new energy” business involves a push into solar and electrification and Ms Yujnovich said there were well advanced plans for the energy major’s first solar project in Queensland.
    The project would involve about 400,000 solar panels on the site of the QGC coal seam gas fields near Wandoan in the Darling Downs…
    https://www.afr.com/business/energy/gas/shell-australia-chief-urges-business-to-unite-on-carbon-advocacy-20190213-h1b716

    1 Mar: CNBC: Reuters: UPDATE 3-Dutch prosecutors target Shell over Nigeria oil deal
    * Prosecutors prepare charges over $1.3 bln deal in Nigeria
    Shell, Eni already facing trial in Milan over deal
    By Ron Bousso and Anthony Deutsch
    Under the deal, Eni and Shell jointly acquired the OPL 245 field from a company owned by former Nigerian oil minister Dan Etete, who was convicted of money laundering in an unrelated case in France in 2007…
    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/01/reuters-america-update-3-dutch-prosecutors-target-shell-over-nigeria-oil-deal.html

    7 Mar 2018: Bloomberg: The Disappearing $1.1 Billion Behind Shell, Eni Trial
    By Chiara Albanese, Sergio Di Pasquale, and Kelly Gilblom; With assistance by Rakteem Katakey
    Italian prosecutors are targeting 13 people and the companies. They include five Eni executives, among them Descalzi and Paolo Scaroni, the former Eni CEO who is now vice-chairman of NM Rothschild & Sons. Four Shell employees including former head of exploration and production Malcolm Brinded, Nigerian officials including Etete, and various others who acted as intermediaries are also identified in the court papers…
    The tract covered by the license is large with an estimated 9 billion barrels of oil resources, which could be worth ***$540 billion at a $60-a-barrel crude price…..

    26 Nov 2018: BBC: Nigeria could lose $6bn from ‘corrupt’ oil deal linked to fraud
    By Russell Padmore
    This unfolding scandal, which is being played out in an Italian court, has involved former MI6 officers, the FBI, a former President of Nigeria, as well as current and former senior executives at the two oil companies…

    26 Nov 2018: Global Witness: Take The Future: Shell’s scandalous deal for Nigeria’s Oil
    DOWNLOAD THE FULL REPORT PLUS
    https://www.globalwitness.org/zh-cn/campaigns/oil-gas-and-mining/take-the-future/

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  • #
    Mark D.

    I really commend Peter Fitzroy for these most recent posts. The sanity expressed suggests that his keyboard has been abducted by forces beyond.

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  • #
    pat

    ABC is not trying to expose one of solar’s dirty little secrets, which is clear from the opening paras and the concern about “an unusually hot start to autumn”!

    when they finally get around to the data, it’s almost comical…and contradictory. read all:

    2 Mar: ABC: Does heat help or hinder solar panels?
    By Daniel Keane
    The future of solar energy in Australia has never looked brighter.
    Solar firms and farms are springing up across the country, and more than 20 per cent of the nation’s homes have solar installations.
    There is also largescale investment by state governments in home battery schemes which capture energy generated by rooftop panels, with the aim of driving down household power bills.

    But despite their growing popularity, there are still some lingering misconceptions about how solar cells work, especially in very hot weather.
    “A solar panel is a bit like the silicon chip inside your computer, if it gets too hot it doesn’t work quite so well,” University of WA resources scientist Ray Wills said.
    Parts of southern Australia, including Adelaide, are currently enduring an unusually hot start to autumn.
    Temperatures rising above 40 degrees Celsius are expected across South Australia today, with temperatures in the high 30s forecast in parts of Victoria.
    Will the heat help or hinder solar panels?…
    “A really hot day, you’ll actually produce less power because the solar panel gets so hot,” engineer and solar analyst Finn Peacock said…
    “So the perfect conditions for solar are strong sun but cold, which is pretty unusual unless you’re in the Arctic.”…

    Is this bad for power bills?
    Not necessarily..
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-02/what-happens-to-solar-panels-in-the-heat/10743650

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    • #
      pat

      50mins for theirABC’s solar guy, Finn Peacock!

      at 11min25sec: Peacock: generally we’re seeing 4-year payback time for 6 & a half KW system.
      closer to 3 years in SA.
      am not listening to all, but he does repeat these alleged payback times multiple times:

      AUDIO: 50min25sec: 14 Nov 2018: ABC Nightlife: Philip Clark: Nightlife featuring a 101 on solar energy
      All your solar tips from Finn Peacock
      Do you just get panels, or should you get storage batteries as well? How many panels should you get? And which supplier should you go with?
      Will it save you money and is there a rebate you are eligible for? Solar expert Finn Peacock takes your questions.
      https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/nightlife/solar/10498424

      if anyone listens, would love a critique.

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    • #
      Dennis

      I read a while back that in areas where very high temperature days are recorded regularly, such as Nevada USA, sunshades are fitted to rooftop solar panels to protect them when necessary, and also to protect against dust storms.

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  • #
    pat

    theirABC scares the farmers, then makes the most of it:

    2 Mar: ABC: The future of farming in the era of climate change
    ABC Central West By Micaela Hambrett
    Seemingly relentless climate-related headlines paint a picture of an agricultural industry under siege:

    (ALL ABC LINKS)
    •A seven year drought concluding in a once-in-40 year flood
    •Bushfires in a normally moist Tasmanian wilderness
    •Mass fish deaths and a river system in peril
    •The entire state of New South Wales is currently in drought

    It has sparked concern among people like Nigel Gibson, who like many others have increasingly taken steps in their own suburban lives to prepare for the impacts of climate change…
    “Will farmers need to move or can they transition to other opportunities?” he asked ABC Central West NSW’s Curious project.
    “I feel this is something no-one is talking about.”…

    A redistribution of agricultural zones
    Across Australia, our climate zones are moving. It’s something Professor Mark Howden, the director of the ANU Climate Change Institute, has been tracking professionally for more than 27 years…

    Anika Molesworth is a young farmer from Broken Hill in New South Wales who in 2017 was the state’s finalist for Young Australian of the Year…
    She believes the first step needs to come from the energy sector to buy more time for other industries to develop response strategies.
    “The easiest way to put the brakes on what we are experiencing is to transition away from dirty fossil fuel energy to clean, renewable energy; that then takes the pressure off other industries.”…

    Peter Mailler, a farmer from Boggabilla on the NSW-Queensland border, read the writing on the wall and transitioned part of his grain operation for solar farming in 2015…
    “If you want practice change in agriculture, there has to be a market signal to incentivise it, and at the moment it’s not there.
    “The transition to solar, for me, is a no-brainer. And in terms of mitigating our economic risk, diversifying out of agriculture is really important at being able to sustain the agricultural enterprise.”…
    “If the Government want structural change in agriculture, they have got to provide incentives, they have got to make it commercially viable.”…
    He believes there need to be a collective, government led response to the threats facing agriculture, rather than the responsibility of solution resting with individuals.
    “The problem is beyond my internal business strategy. We’ve invested in solar and some other things, but unless the country moves with it, we’re doomed to fail and it’s a really bad situation.”…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-02/the-future-of-farming-in-the-era-of-climate-change/10852926

    00

    • #
      yarpos

      Diversifying into solar farming is at least one way to direct more substantial subsidies/assistance to agriculture. A long winded way to do it but why not I guess. It may be hard to eventually have to eat solar panels though.

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    • #
      Maptram

      From above “Anika Molesworth is a young farmer from Broken Hill in New South Wales who in 2017 was the state’s finalist for Young Australian of the Year…
      She believes the first step needs to come from the energy sector to buy more time for other industries to develop response strategies.
      “The easiest way to put the brakes on what we are experiencing is to transition away from dirty fossil fuel energy to clean, renewable energy; that then takes the pressure off other industries.”…

      The brakes Anika talks about would be like the brakes on a fully loaded, 2 kilometer long iron ore transport train in WA, not a car.

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    • #
      Bill in Oz

      I wonder if Ita Buttrose realsies that hardly anyone actually watches or reads this ABC nonsense.

      I don’t and I don’t know a farmer who does.

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  • #
    pat

    2 Mar: EuroNews: Reuters: Tesla’s store-shuttering strategy may pull the rug out of solar
    By Alexandria Sage
    Tesla Inc’s sudden decision to shutter the bulk of its stores around the world raises a red flag over the future of its solar branch, a declining business it paid $2.6 billion (1.97 billion pounds) for in a controversial 2016 deal.
    Chief Executive Elon Musk’s announcement on Thursday that the electric vehicle maker would close “many” of its stores around the world to sell cars online-only removes the only retail outlet for solar sales since Musk pulled the plug on a partnership with Home Depot last June.

    “Solar is now the stepchild at Tesla. They’ve made two decisions in a row that deal crippling blows to the solar business and they may be regretting the Home Depot idea,” said Frank Gillett, principal analyst at Forrester Research.
    “It doesn’t feel thoughtfully done, it’s rushed. Basically it will hurt them from a brand and marketing point of view,” Gillett said…
    Tesla said all sales for its energy and solar products around the world would now be online only, too…

    In January, Tesla said it was “still in the process of transitioning our sales channel from former partners to our Tesla stores and training our sales team to sell solar systems in addition to vehicles.”
    But former solar salespeople told Reuters that Tesla had already put solar on the back burner, with Tesla-branded panels not even available for installations in the latter half of 2018…
    “They’d tell us the focus of the company is the Model 3,” said one former seller, who left the company in January. “The Model 3 has to be successful or there’s no company.”
    https://www.euronews.com/2019/03/02/teslas-store-shuttering-strategy-may-pull-the-rug-out-of-solar

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    • #
      pat

      Updated 2 Mar: Buffalo News: David Robinson: Closing Tesla stores won’t help sagging solar business
      Tesla CEO Elon Musk is turning the sales strategy for its shrinking solar energy business on its head. And it could hurt its already struggling Buffalo solar panel factory.
      The electric vehicle maker said late Thursday that it plans to close most of its 130 stores and galleries that sell or display Tesla’s electric vehicles as a way to slash costs as the company rolls out a $35,000 version of its all-important Model 3 electric vehicle.

      That’s a big deal to Tesla’s solar energy business – and a concerning development for the company’s Buffalo solar panel factory, which already has been slow to hit its stride and become the catalyst for the Buffalo Niagara economy that state officials hoped when they paid $750 million in taxpayer money to build and equip the plant.

      Here’s why: ***Rooftop solar energy systems are notoriously hard to sell – and those sales expenses are a big burden to companies such as Tesla. Ever since Tesla acquired the solar energy business from SolarCity in late 2016, it has slashed those selling costs. It stopped selling rooftop solar system door-to-door. It launched – and quickly scrapped – a program to sell rooftop solar through Home Depot stores…

      In other words, if you want to buy a rooftop solar system from Tesla, the vast majority of homeowners will have to do it online, many without ever having seen a Tesla solar panel or solar shingle in person – unless a friend or neighbor has one installed. That might be asking a lot…
      https://buffalonews.com/2019/03/01/tesla-solar-energy-stores-retail-cars-buffalo-solarcity/

      ***except to gullible Australians?

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        pat

        1 Mar: CBS San Francisco: AP: Tesla Defies Convention, Pays For It As Shares Slide
        Tesla is suffering one of its worst sell-offs of the year after the Bay Area car company said it would begin closing all of its stores in favor of selling its electric cars exclusively online…
        Tesla Inc. tumbled 8 percent Friday.
        https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2019/03/01/tesla-shares-slide-tsla-closing-stores-35k-model-3/

        1 Mar: AtlantaJournalConstitution: AP: Tesla’s online-only sales approach comes with big risks
        Even Musk seemed a little apprehensive on a conference call with reporters Thursday. At one point he said there’s demand for 500,000 Model 3s per year, but he also added “I don’t know what the demand is.”

        Investors also were skeptical, in part because Musk predicted a first-quarter loss after pledging to be profitable every quarter. Shares of the company took a beating Thursday and closed down nearly 8 percent…
        https://www.ajc.com/news/national/tesla-online-only-sales-approach-comes-with-big-risks/GyQL17WJNjT4nHNENbtFkJ/

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          pat

          1 Mar: TheDrive: This Burned-Up Tesla Model X on Ice Is Vermont’s Hottest New Attraction
          The exact cause of the inferno is unknown, but many suspect a rock hit the Tesla’s battery pack, which usually spells bad news.
          By Stef Schrader
          The owners had taken their Model X ice fishing last Sunday, reports Seven Days (LINK). The driver told firefighters and police that he hit a rock somewhere on the way to the lake in nearby South Burlington, and while he didn’t see any damage when he stopped alongside the road to check it out, he thought he something smelled strange. Later, they started hearing funny noises coming from the vehicle. Around 8:00 p.m., after they had made it onto the frozen lake, the Model X caught fire—starting with a hiss…

          The cause of the fire remains unknown, however, the most plausible theory is that the rock struck the Tesla’s battery pack, which rides low in the car. Previous Teslas have burst into flame after their lithium-ion batteries have been struck with sufficient force, and Popular Mechanics notes that lithium-ion cells quickly discharge their energy in the form of heat when damaged, leading to a fire…
          That kind of fire spreads rapidly and can be notoriously difficult to get back under control, often ending up as the all-over inferno as you see here. Tesla Motors Club forum member GreenMtnM3 and his family saw the Model X as it was burning, and reported seeing a blazing fire with numerous small explosions going off, just like we’ve seen in other rapid-spreading Tesla battery fires…
          http://www.thedrive.com/news/26715/this-burned-up-tesla-model-x-on-ice-is-vermonts-hottest-new-attraction

          2 Mar: NBC: AP: Man dies after Tesla crashes into semitrailer in Florida
          The report didn’t say whether the Tesla’s autopilot or automatic emergency brakes were engaged. Driver Jeremy Beren Banner, 50, died at the scene.
          The report says the truck was making a left turn onto a divided highway to head north when the southbound 2018 Tesla 3 hit the semi’s driver side, causing the Tesla’s roof to tear off as it passed under the trailer.
          The report didn’t say whether the Tesla’s autopilot or automatic emergency brakes were engaged.

          The car manufacturer released a statement saying it is cooperating with authorities.
          The crash comes less than a week after a Tesla left the road in Davie, Florida, and caught fire after crashing
          https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/man-dies-after-tesla-crashes-semitrailer-florida-n978466

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    pat

    1 Mar: CNS News: ‘Green New Deal’ Doesn’t Go Far Enough, Says UN ‘Right to Food’ Expert
    by Patrick Goodenough
    Hilal Elver, a U.S.-based Turkish academic appointed by the U.N. Human Rights Council (HRC) in 2014 as “special rapporteur on the right to food,” said the Democratic initiative would be the first major U.S. effort “to address the threat of climate change as dynamic, multi-dimensional, and ubiquitous, and for that alone, it deserves praise.” However, she added that the Green New Deal (GND) proposal — which critics view as aggressively radical, even socialist — “falls far short.”
    (The article (LINK), posted on Elver’s website, was attributed to the “SR [special rapporteur] Food Team,” which she heads.)

    In it, she took the GND to task for using what she sees as insufficiently robust language.
    “[T]he Green New Deal is correct to suggest that the United States has a duty to secure ‘healthy food’ for all,” the article said. “But even more than that, the United States has an obligation to ensure that all populations have unrestricted physical and economic access to a sufficient quantity of nutritionally diverse, safe, culturally appropriate food.”

    The article said the U.S. government “must stop promoting policies and practices that perpetuate income inequality, a racial wealth divide, reliance on fossil fuels, and industrialized agriculture.”…

    Elver appeared before the HRC in Geneva on Thursday to present her annual report, and was challenged about Venezuela.
    Hillel Neuer, executive director of the non-governmental organization U.N. Watch, asked her why it was that “out of 11,058 words [in the report], there is not one, not one word, for the millions of Venezuelans who can’t get enough to eat?”
    He noted that, of the nine country visits she has made since taking up her mandate, not one was to Venezuela.

    “If your mandate is to defend hungry people, why have you refused to write a report, or call for an urgent debate, or a commission of inquiry for families who are now forced to adopt emergency strategies of the kind used during famine in war-torn countries?” Neuer asked.
    “Are you not aware that 34 percent of people in Venezuela are either selling assets to buy food, eat from garbage bins, or sending a child to beg for food?”

    Later, Elver responded that her office had requested permission to visit Venezuela but received no response.
    “Special rapporteurs cannot go anywhere if the governments are not cooperating,” she said…
    “Actually, we are doing a lot of investigation but the issue is too complicated,” she said. “There are two sides of this conflict – as usual in many other conflicts – and we want to be objective rather than geopolitical interest.”…READ ON
    https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/patrick-goodenough/green-new-deal-doesnt-go-far-enough-says-un-right-food-expert

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    RickWill

    From above:

    Why do we allow a few companies to own so many different and competing generators across the entire market?

    Ownership has little to do with the pricing of electricity. Blaming asset owners supports the misdirection of state and federal governments finding someone to blame other than their own flawed schemes.

    There is a phenomenal level of investment going into electrical power supply in Australia. ALL that investment is looking for a return and consumers have no option and no say. Some have the option to become generators and enjoy the benefits the government bestows for playing their game. All these investment rely on government largesse to provide a system that increases income to generators at the expense of consumers. Any existing coal generator not constructing their own subsidy farms are doing their shareholders a disservice.

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      RickWill

      I forgot to mention that one certainty remains – grid electricity prices are going UP.

      If you have the capacity to make your own then become a generator rather than a consumer.

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    pat

    Youtube: 21min34sec: 1 March: Judicial Watch: Tom Fitton @ #CPAC2019: ‘President Trump is a Victim of Illegal Targeting by the Obama Admin’
    (Bryon York of Washington Examiner interview Tom Fitton and Devin Nunes)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU3e4qXy31Q

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    RickWill

    O/T but worth a note.
    The globe was 0.36C warmer in Feb 2019 than the 30 year satellite average:
    http://www.drroyspencer.com
    That is notionally a tad cooler than Jan 2019.

    The more detailed data indicates how our minds are more focused on the recent past with wild fires now threatening towns just East of Melbourne. Going by the last few days I would have thought Australia would be a large contributor to warming but it reduced the average. I had forgotten the run of cool days just a week or so ago.

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    Another Ian

    I brought this thread to the attention of a friend. The reply was:-

    “I have got PocketNEM on my phone. Really interesting to watch the flows and WHAT is producing electricity. The renewable thing is NUTS!”

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    David Brewer

    Isn’t it 13 000% more, rather than 1 300% more? It seems to be 130 times the price, not 13 times the price…

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    robert rosicka

    After reading this https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-02/what-happens-to-solar-panels-in-the-heat/10743650
    I’ve had a thought , now we know the link between causation and correlation is tenuous at best as far as the climate (scientists) go .
    But I’d love to see a graph of the last 30 years showing temperatures increasing and the rise of renewables .
    Now if every home that has solar panels is catching and magnifying heat the impact must be impacting somewhere on our climate .
    Wind turbines are wind catchers they put them around the coast to ” catch wind” and it’s well known that wind turbines placed too close too other wind turbines are robbed of enough wind to be useful.
    Cool air comes from outwards (the sea) to inwards the main island that is oz but you can put virtually any country in its place here .
    So we’re slowing down cooling breezes and we’re raising the air temps artificially and no- one thinks there might be a price to pay ?
    I know this is using climate science logic to call a spade a bucket of Brussel sprouts but kinda makes me wonder , after all most windfarms are on or near the coast and not pointing inwards .

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    el gordo

    Crash and Burn

    ‘The Coalition now has an effective renewable energy target of at least 50 per cent, the same as Labor.’ Alan Kohler / Oz

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      Serp

      I imagine it’s all driven by social media crowds. In such an environment we are doomed to witness the election of a leaderless rabble. The green nutjobs have terrorised Labor and Liberal alike into producing effectively identical energy generation policies without any concern for that now quaint term the national interest. There’s no way back up from the descent into this ignoramus-led schemozzle. Realistically, all we Eastern States residents can do is emigrate to the west and watch the same madness overtake it in the coming years.

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    el gordo

    ‘California’s largest county has banned the construction of large solar and wind farms on more than 1 million acres of private land, bending to the will of residents who say they don’t want renewable energy projects industrializing their rural desert communities northeast of Los Angeles.’

    WUWT

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