JoNova

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Midweek Unthreaded

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Midweek Unthreaded, 9.4 out of 10 based on 18 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/y68lo77o

198 comments to Midweek Unthreaded

  • #
    TdeF

    For those of you interested..

    “a friendly reminder that our climate change forum with Mark Butler MP, Labor’s Shadow Minister for Climate Change and Energy, is next Tuesday February 26 at 7pm at the St Kilda RSL, 88 Acland Street, St Kilda.”

    “the defining issue of our times and why we need a Labor Government to end the Liberals’ inaction and denial of climate change.”

    Too bad it’s all a lie.

    I had help from Martin Foley, our good local state Labor MP. Now my email address is used to solicit my help for all sorts of things. You would think I actually was a member of the Labor party but here you have it. We have to do something about Climate Change. I should grow a tree.

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    • #
      Peter C

      Are you going?

      20

      • #
        TdeF

        Good question. I could start a riot. Frankly politicians and their supporters are not in my experience in search of truth and wisdom. Contradicting the ‘defining issue of our times’ would provoke a reaction. My experience is that people on the left of politics follow the leader and are not interested in science.

        171

    • #
      Annie

      TdeF, I’ve planted lots of trees at our place. I’ll dedicate one for you…a silver birch?

      31

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        Annie:

        I noticed today that some of trees in the Main St. of Woodside had distinct autumn leaves. I then went down to Hahndorf and the entrance road was lined with trees with fully autumn coloured leaves. If this was the “hottest summer” then what happens when the climate gets cold?

        20

        • #
          Annie

          Warm dry weather can give an early artificial autumn. Some of our trees have dropped a lot of leaves but others are still very green…depends on the water in the soil; some areas are drier than others. I have watered my younger birch trees and they are still very green. Oak trees, liquid ambers and some ash (fraxinus) are also very green but one ash is looking pretty thin. Horse chestnut was lovely into January but then decided to thin its leaves. Aleppo pine dropped a lot of needles as did the radiatas; a nuisance from the point of view of flammable hazards. The worst problem in that regard is provided by the river red gums along the road…they perpetually drop lerp-infested leaves, twigs, branches all year round.

          00

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Tdef you certainly need to show/tell them your opinion. Good luck!

      30

  • #
    • #
      Bill in Oz

      And should stick to as well !

      31

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      NASA (minus a few good scientists) are full of loon bins, aliens are sending us signals freaks, climate freaks, and other of scale statements of nonsensical wisdom coming out of that institution. They do great work on the interplanetry vehicle, cassinis, mars rovers, pioneers etc. missions but thats it, the days when real people ran it are probably over, been taken over by PC science bozos looking for large congressional handouts to make them look good.

      31

    • #
      Slithers

      It’s those new tadpoles on the sun’s surface that’s the cause of all our strange weather…..

      Pseudo shock waves, Computer Models to work out what they are…..

      I need to take stronger anti-cynical medication.

      https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/02/20/solar-tadpole-like-jets-seen-with-nasas-iris-add-new-clue-to-age-old-mystery/

      The Sun is huge and a log way away. The instruments that observe the sun cannot be calibrated as there is nothing to calibrated them against.
      Computer generated images are notorious for generating false and misleading data yet NASA can publish them and ‘Experts’ can theorize and the Media can then publish yet more alarmist notions….

      00

  • #
    pat

    question. how will we know when it is manmade global warming that kills off a species?

    31 Jan: Science Daily: Australian plants facing extinction
    Source: Uni of Queensland
    New research by the Threatened Species Recovery Hub has identified the top 100 Australian plant species at risk of extinction. Three quarters of Australia’s threatened species are plants…
    “Without action, future generations will not have the blue top sun-orchid, pretty beard orchid, hairy geebung, yellow mountain bell or matchstick banksia.”

    The research has just been published in the Australian Journal of Botany, and is based on a review of all available published information and interviews with 130 botanists from across Australia.
    Ground orchids topped the chart, with 15 species making it on to the list.

    According to co-researcher Dr Rod Fensham from the University of Queensland, the research team also identified the major threats driving species to extinction.
    Urbanisation was the leading threat resulting in 22 species on the list, while 19 species are on the list due to inappropriate fire regimes…

    “Introduced plant diseases like phytophthora and myrtle rust are pushing 18 of the plants on the list towards extinction…
    Historic and ongoing habitat loss is the major threat to Australia’s plant species. Other threats increasing the risk of plant extinctions include grazing and trampling by livestock, native and feral animals like rabbits, ***climate change, weedy grasses and mining…
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/01/190131113931.htm

    19 Feb: WJAC TV: Study: Cold weather may have killed 95% of stink bugs left outside
    by Travis Gary
    The cold isn’t all bad.
    According to a release from the National Pest Management Association (LINK), the polar vortex may have killed up to 95 percent of the stink bugs that were left out to brave the elements.
    The release cites a Virginia Tech research experiment.

    However, the study refers only to the bugs that couldn’t find shelter to stay warm for the winter.
    Bugs that may have made it inside your home before the cold are likely still warm and cozy.
    https://wjactv.com/news/local/study-cold-weather-may-have-killed-95-of-stink-bugs-left-outside

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    • #
      TdeF

      You can kill off 99% of an insect population and with their lifecycle have the same number back the next season. As the malaria people have decided, its far better to sterilize not minimize populations.

      101

  • #
    pat

    for the yellow vests?

    19 Feb: Reuters: EU agrees to cut greenhouse gas emissions from trucks
    Philip Blenkinsop
    The European Union agreed on Tuesday to reduce emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2) from new trucks and buses by 30 percent by a 2030 deadline as part of its commitment to cut its output of greenhouse gases.
    The European Parliament and the Council, which represents the 28 EU member countries, struck a compromise in the early hours that will reduce average CO2 emissions compared with 2019 levels, the European Commision said in a statement.

    There is also an interim 15 percent reduction target for 2025 and incentives for manufacturers to make low and zero-emission trucks. The 2030 target is also subject to a review in 2022.
    “For the first time binding CO2-reduction targets for trucks at the EU-level, including a clear stimulus for zero and low-emission trucks,” Bas Eickhout, a Greens lawmaker who had negotiated on behalf of the European Parliament, said on Twitter.
    The EU currently has no limits on emissions from heavy-duty vehicles, unlike the United States, China, Japan and Canada. Trucks account for almost one quarter of the bloc’s transport-related emissions…

    The European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association (ACEA) said EU countries must improve charging and refueling infrastructure, which was non-existent for electric and hydrogen trucks and “very low and patchy” for trucks powered by natural gas.
    It believes the potential for electrification is far lower than for cars, particularly for long-haul transit, and questions whether transport operators will really want to buy zero-emission trucks…
    The provisional deal reached on Tuesday will need support from the Council and be subject to a vote in parliament.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-autos-emissions/eu-agrees-on-greenhouse-gas-emission-cut-for-trucks-idUSKCN1Q80KG

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  • #
    Peter C

    What does the upcoming Election Mean?

    A labor disaster or a Liberal disaster.

    Which ever it is, we need a few Australian Conservative senators to block the worst Green/Socialist legislation that will appear.

    If anyone wants to help there is a growing grassroots campaign to approach and engage voters. If you are motivated and can help, respond here.

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    • #
      Dennis

      The antics of Turnbull & BH associates was the media focus but now the split between the Labor left factions (several of them) and the Labor right is being exposed, and the fools who had managed to keep their differences hidden are exposing themselves.

      Beginning with the doctor’s bill and now spreading to higher taxes, doubling RET, a call to ban coal mining and more “green” extremism.

      60

    • #
      MudCrab

      My ‘I care enough to physically get off my chair and do something’ era of politics may have been and gone.

      Done the doorknocking.

      Done the letterboxing.

      Been the booth captain.

      And then, “Oh I really think Turnbull will be good for the party!” and it was branch AGM time and I realised I just could not be bothered.

      They didn’t contact me when I let my membership lapse, but did ring when the election came up and they needed a booth captain. Told them I was busy that weekend and that besides, with all the new members Turnbull had brought to the party, it was only fair for me to step aside and let them have their moment of glory.

      So… active membership of a political party (again)? Big question, Peter.

      30

  • #
    William

    Peter Hannam over at Channel Nine’s print wing is getting all breathless about what idiots are claiming is our first AGW extinction.

    https://www.canberratimes.com.au/by/peter-hannam-hvek8

    50

  • #
    • #

      It’s still not even in Australian waters, or under Australian reporting control.

      It would also seem that the ABC has introduced new levels for Cyclones as well, as last night’s weather report here in Queensland described it as a very destructive Category 3 Cyclone, so it seems that each category now has sub categories as well.

      Tony.

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      • #
        theRealUniverse

        Just watch the satellite pics, either BOM Himawari or direct. Those things are slightly chaotic and unpredictable. All the models are pretty hopeless that why the say there are at least 3 paths!! In reality they dont know stuff all. Slight changes in earths magnetic/electric circuit can change the course.
        As for categories I think they are supposed to be based on central wind speed measurements. Probably unreliable anyway, mostly done from satellite measurements.

        30

    • #
      beowulf

      Been watching that baby for a week and a half El Gordo. In that time it has moved slightly to the west and now slightly south.

      Currently 11.30pm EDST: central pressure is 969mB which is fractionally lower than it has mostly been; sustained wind is 74kph; gusts to 117kph; SST is 26-27 deg. New Caledonia is copping gusts to about 80 kph, but mostly 30-40kph.

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      • #
        Bill in Oz

        Bureau of Misinformation is forecasting a landfall just North of Cape Byron on late Sunday.. And associated with that landfall lots of rain in SE Queensland which is presently suffering from a drought.

        http://www.bom.gov.au/australia/charts/4day_col.shtml

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      • #
        James in Melbourne

        Hi Beowulf, would love some local information – we are supposed to be flying from Melbourne to Noosa tomorrow, and we’re about to can the holiday….concerned that rain will be 24-hours for most of the week….are we over-reacting?

        30

        • #
          beowulf

          You’re asking the wrong fella James. I’m just an interested bystander with zero expertise in weather prediction. All I can tell you is that one model suggests OMA will travel SW for 3 days (from near New Caledonia where it was) then veer NW for another couple of days before it blows itself out away from the coast. That NW course is a new addition to their prediction since yesterday. That said, the model output changes all the time.

          It has moved overnight SSW at 4 kts (7.5kph). One source has it at 101kph sustained wind speed; another has it at 71kph sustained. Who knows?

          There is however an absolutely massive cloud mass to the south of OMA extending all the way to NZ. It will be hard to miss some rain no matter whether it heads NW or SW. What that means for a holiday in Noosa I cannot say for sure, but I’d be packing a brolly.

          The BOM has the Sunshine Coast down for rain and showers for the next few days. No surprises there. Wild surf too.

          30

        • #
          William

          No matter James, even if it rains 24/7 while you are in Noosa, it will still be paradise compared with Melbourne!

          10

  • #
    • #
      el gordo

      Jack we can turn this around very quickly with a robust debate in the MSM. Australia is not going down the gurgler because we have a functioning democracy and at some point the masses will see the light of day.

      10

      • #
        jack

        Hi el gordo
        I do try to remain positive about our future, but..
        Objective “robust debate” defiantly required, but there is no foot hold for such a thing in the main stream, “the science is settled!”
        You have more faith in “the masses” than I do.
        We are inundated with an irrational barrage from the media, schooling, institutions, etc.
        It’s as if the values defined by reason are on the edge of a precipice hanging by it’s finger nails.

        “…Not with a bang, but a whimper”

        40

        • #
          el gordo

          What you say is true, but we only need a robust debate to settle the matter.

          The tendering for new coal fired power stations is a clear break from collective thinking and theoretically should produce a Coalition win. The masses will be swayed by the argument that carbon dioxide doesn’t cause catastrophic global warming.

          Sky News has had Angus Taylor on twice this week, he is good value.

          The brainwashing throughout the education system to university level is a disgrace, but we can easily turn this around within a couple of years.

          10

      • #
        David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

        G’day e g,
        I can’t give you a link to this as it’s something I was told about but don’t have access to, but apparently there’s an article in today’s Telegraph in which Warren Mundine has said some rather promising things challenging the warmist views.
        Does anyone reading this have access to the paper/article and the chance to give us an extract, please?
        Cheers,
        Dave B

        20

    • #
      el gordo

      The debate is just kicking off.

      ‘Energy Minster Angus Taylor has all but confirmed the Morrison government is prepared to underwrite new coal-fired power stations, at the same time moderate Liberal MPs are urging the government to adopt a policy on climate change.

      ‘Mr Taylor released a list 66 potential power generation projects seeking taxpayer support after the government called for expressions of interests to provide “reliable” or “fair dinkum” power.’

      Fin Review

      30

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        Since the necessary storage for renewables (Snowy2) won’t arrive until 2024 I guess Labor is relying on the tooth fairy to build some in the meantime or face the claim “6 years of blackouts under Labor”.

        40

      • #
        jack

        I find it hard not to be skeptical as to what comes out the mouth of any politician.
        The LIBs, in recent time, have become fence sitters.
        They have become a party void of principles, or worse mixed and contradictory principles.
        They place a bet each way, while flogging a dead horse.

        Maybe they are confused by the ‘Americanisation’ of Australia. The original European meaning of liberal was small Government, low Taxes, free market, etc. The American (USA) meaning of liberal is of a left, social/progressive persuasion.

        How can you trust a fence sitter? At lest with the other mob you know what your getting, kick in the face Marxism.

        ScoMo can come across as the greatest father figure since Fred MacMurray in My three sons, but unless they demonstrate conviction to well defined principles, they are dead in the water.

        el gordo, hope you are right and I am wrong.

        30

        • #
          el gordo

          Turnbull dragged the Party towards the Green slime, but we had a coup and through him out. So now Morrison is taking us back to the right, the correct position for the Coalition.

          If the ABC adopts a strict left leaning bias into this election and the Coalition wins, the future of the organisation will be in doubt.

          i just watched a Catalyst program on Antartica, it had flaws and showed blatant bias, so it would be nice to see an alternative perspective on Antarctica from them before the election.

          20

          • #
            Serp

            I love your irrepressible optimism el gordo; it would be great if the far left national broadcasting corporation were to change course but there is no possibility whatsoever of opening up those closed minds.

            20

            • #
              el gordo

              They are steeped in their own propaganda, so the pressure has to come from outside to get balance.

              It depends on how radical the Morrison government is, the ABC will have to report it and will be judged on their performance. The Murdocracy is going into battle, with the full intention of belittling aunty.

              10

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Hey look…a bar fridge on wheels….I wonder if you open the door and the interior light will come on? :-)

    https://www.drive.com.au/news/citroen-s-2cv-for-the-21st-century-120804.html?trackLink=SMH3&utm_campaign=tile-4&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=smh

    “Citroen says the fully-electric compact car will also come with a human-machine interface, designed as a personal assistant that interacts with the driver to help find nearby car parks and charging stations for example.

    On the outside it looks like a tiny cube on wheels. And it’s just as unconventional on the inside. “

    40

    • #

      So then, it’ll soon be a case of ….. “hey love, send the car out to get a Pizza!”

      What’s the d@mned point of having a car then.

      Tony.

      51

      • #
        Dennis

        What’s the point Tony?

        Exactly, in the future planned for us by the socialist globalists most citizens will not be allowed to own a personal transport vehicle and will also be restricted in travelling, permit required if far from home district.

        The new world order first discussed in the late 1800s after the socialist Fabian Society was established in England, one of the founders was George Bernard Shaw.

        The Australian Fabian Society membership includes most Labor politicians.

        Labor communist Attorney General Evatt, a lawyer, gave the United Nations the plan for treaties between the UN and member nations that could be used, with government cooperation, to get around constitutional law to implement UN agendas. I once believed that oppositions would uphold constitutional law by blocking government attempts to cooperate with the UN, but I was wrong.

        40

  • #

    I have a thesis I’d like a few people to commentv on. It is this: You can either beleieve in the concept of a ‘balance of nature’ or you can believe in the ‘process of evolution’ but you can’t believe in them both. Not, at least, in the long term. In the short term maybe, yes, but in the long term, no.

    This has come up for me recently several times when, on a trip to an island, the guide was constantly referring to ‘the balance of nature’ when he was talking about the island’s ecology. (Certainly an extremely interesting ecology). But the problem is that, if you believe in this idea of the balance of nature, it strikes me that you cannot also believe in the process of evolution – not in the long term at least. The two concepts are in conflict.

    Over the long term, the process of evolution assumes that nature is dynamic, some species gaining an advantage through natural selection and other species falling behind in the ‘evolutionary race’.

    The problem I see is that a large number of people worried about global warming or ‘climate change’ – (what ever that is) seem to have a very clear world view that nature is static. And an outworking of this idea is that the climate is also static. And the static state of their view of nature is, broadly speaking, the Holocene period in which we live. Okay, I know there are significant changes in the Holocene but let’s say their static concept is the Holocene.

    Evolutionary processes have hapened dramatically prior to the Holicene, and continue to happen now, so any concept of a ‘balance of nature’ over the long term has to be implausible.

    So that’s the background to my question. I’d be interested in comments, agreeing or diagreeing.

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    • #
      Peter C

      Gee Aye might have a view on this.

      I think he is an evolutional biologist.

      00

    • #
      TdeF

      You cannot stop evolution, as some people would like to do. Homo Sapiens have only been dominant for 100,000 years, a blink. We carry 30% Neanderthal genes, which resolves what happened. The view of a lot of Green voters is that any change should be stopped, by law if possible.

      I would hate to see England reduced to the original state before men sculpted the place. Almost none of it is original but it is lovely. The people against anything though would undo the work of thousands of years and millions of people. All to recreate some fantasy world. They also want CO2 levels to remain where they were in 1900. For reasons which no one understands but at $1.5Trillion a year, it is the biggest single business on the planet.

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    • #
      Bill in Oz

      David, just to confuse yourself, try this out on your brain :
      ” Humans are upsetting the balance of evolution”

      That’s sort of what Greenists think – unfortunately !

      61

    • #
      Curious George

      The balance of nature is the concept of the Garden of Eden. “Then the LORD God planted a garden in Eden in the east, and there he placed the man he had made.” [Genesis 2:8]
      Unfortunately, it contradicts a geological record. It is an important part of a written record. Decide for yourself, which version to believe, and when. Both have their attractions. Are we walking away from the Garden, or towards it?

      40

    • #
      Robber

      Was it CO2 that killed off the dinosaurs, and broke the land bridge to Tasmania?

      30

    • #

      I do have a view. It is not to get hung up about loose terminology like “balance of nature”.

      It is a human expression that describes the fact that a system is not completely out of control.

      31

      • #

        Dear Gee Aye,
        Thanks for that. Maybe I am getting too caught up in the semantics of it all. Maybe one of the problems with my ‘thesis’ as described above is the problem of what is short term and what is long term.

        I sometimes find myself arguing a ‘balance of nature’ case where I refer to ‘balances’ that appear to take place in nature. But, when I do, I often have the mental reservation that nothing in nature seems balanced over the long term, ie, the term of time in which the evolutionary process starts to impact the ‘balance’or the long term geological time frame where changes in the geology/climate/environmental setting just render the concept of long-term balance implausible.

        10

        • #

          The expression is often used by people who don’t think too deeply about what they mean and sometimes they are even implying that a balance must exist. Like “balance” itself is an entity exists and therefore needs protection and not that it is just an observation of the outcome of the processes within.

          15

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      David:
      Curiously I am about to give a talk on evolution and natural selection (nothing grand and lots of pictures) but I agree with the proviso that evolution can be quite rapid at times.
      May I suggest the Trey the explainer youtube
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NArlXzSFt2Y

      I must admit trimming it down to just the Peter & Rosemary Grant’s work on Daphne major in the Galapagos (approx. 3 – 10 minutes) but you might find it interesting. There are other versions but this is the most succinct.

      30

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Im not convinced of either totally. Nature isnt balanced in anyway. ANY geophysical event can unbalance it very quickly and small events do it all the time. There is no ‘balance’ it is a system of come and go for the species.

      30

    • #
      tom0mason

      David Mason-Jones,

      IMO, On the whole nature is NEVER in balance. Or if it is it is only for a very short time.
      Nature continually SEEKS to find balance but more times than most, fails due to the chaotic changes that occur in the environment.
      Many people assert this spurious idea of balance as they can not see the larger picture and like neatness, in contrast nature IS messy.

      30

  • #
    pat

    theirABC continues their war on coal:

    20 Feb: ABC: Glencore moves to cap global coal output after investor pressure on climate change
    By business reporter Nassim Khadem
    Australia’s largest coal miner Glencore has succumbed to shareholder pressure to take action to address climate change, and announced it will cap its global coal output.
    The Swiss-based resources giant said it would freeze coal production at current levels, and instead focus on commodities including copper, cobalt, nickel, vanadium and zinc, as part of its “global response to the increasing risks posed by climate change”…

    It said it would cap its global thermal and coking coal production at the current level of about 145 million tonnes after holding talks with the Climate Action 100+ initiative.
    The group, whose global members collectively manage more than $US32 trillion in assets, includes a number of major Australian superannuation funds such as AMP Capital, AustralianSuper, Cbus, IFM Investors, QSuper and BT Financial Group…

    “To meet the growing needs of a lower carbon economy, Glencore aims to prioritise its capital investment to grow production of commodities essential to the energy and mobility transition and to limit its coal production capacity ***broadly to current levels.”…

    Glencore said it would implement recommendations that have been developed by the G20 Task Force on Climate-related Financial Disclosures (TCFD), which aim to help investors understand their financial exposure to climate risk and help companies better disclose this information…

    Minerals Council of Australia membership under review
    Glencore also said it would examine its membership of trade associations to ensure those groups aligned with the Paris climate agreement and Paris goals. These associations include the Minerals Council of Australia…

    Director of climate and environment at the Australasian Centre for Corporate Responsibility (ACCR), Dan Gocher, said the move by Glencore debunked mining industry lobby groups’ claims about the future of coal.
    “This announcement demonstrates that Resources Minister Matt Canavan and his fellow coal cheerleaders are wildly out of touch with the investment sector, and it should send shockwaves throughout the Australian coal industry,” he said…
    “Australia can no longer budget on the infinite flow of revenues from coal exports, and must begin to plan for a life beyond coal, as the world transitions to a low-carbon economy.”…

    Climate change a major election issue
    The Australia Institute said the announcement had major repercussions for Glencore’s Australian operations. The miner has invested over $23 billion into Australia since 2008, including in a number of coal mines.
    The Institute said coal accounted for 35 per cent of Glencore’s total emissions in 2016, and its half-owned Hunter Valley operations produce 69 million tonnes of coal per annum…

    Richie Merzian (TAI): “One by one major investors are turning away from coal and it will soon become all but impossible for new mines to find funding, despite the Federal Government’s local and international support and advocacy for the coal industry.”…
    “On both sides of the world, companies are divesting and Australia may be stuck holding lumps of worthless coal,” he said. “Come May, climate change will, without doubt, feature heavily in the federal election.”

    Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) data shows coal last year overtook iron ore as the nation’s biggest export earner. Australia exported a record $66.2 billion worth of coal last year…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-20/glencore-moves-to-cap-global-coal-output-post-investor-pressure/10831154

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    • #
      Bill in Oz

      I suspect that glen Core will arrange for a ‘hidden’ subsidiary to do the expansion of coal production.

      As Glen Core is not publicly listed it’s inner administrative arrangements are entirely confidential.

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  • #
    Slithers

    I do not think that people who support or denigrate this site known what they support or deny Most of them are just bystanders. They will get what they deserve..,

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    .
    ❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶
    ❶①❶①
    ❶①❶① . . . Real Temperatures . . .
    ❶①❶①
    ❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶
    .

    Are you interested in seeing real temperature data (NOT temperature anomalies).

    I am talking about actual absolute temperatures, like 21.2 degrees Celsius. Not an anomaly, like +1.0 degree Celsius.

    I have got the average temperature, the hottest month (summer) temperature, and the coldest month (winter) temperature, for 216 countries.

    I have combined the temperature data, with population data, to show how real temperatures vary, for all of the people who live on the Earth.

    ====================

    For a graph showing temperature and population by country, see:

    https://agree-to-disagree.com/temp-population-by-country

    ====================

    For graphs showing detailed temperature data for 216 countries, see

    https://agree-to-disagree.com/how-hot-is-that-country

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  • #
    beowulf

    If like me, you’re a big fan of the EU, you’ll overlook the self-professed new leader of the free world — Jean-Claude Juncker having one of his frequent “moments”.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJsrJUuonkM

    He’s not drunk — no, no — he just has bad luck when he walks. Lucky he had his 4 lackeys there to prop him up. Even Theresa the Appeaser looks embarrassed, which is remarkable given that she doesn’t seem to be embarrassed by her own contemptible performance. How that woman can stand up and keep a straight face between lies is impressive in a repugnant sort of way.

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    pat

    top story front page The Australian tomorrow – just seen on Sky’s Front Page program. think I’ve got it right:

    Our carbon cut apoalyse
    Coal collapse a “good thing” says Labor MP

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      robert rosicka

      Just seen it Pat , $500 billion hit to the economy and electricity prices will rise by 50% .

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        robert rosicka

        Sorry that’s if Labor get the emission reductions and unreliables they are planning .

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          pat

          robert rosicka

          hope you can post a few lines. I can’t find anything as yet.

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            robert rosicka

            Behind paywall but seems to open up ok , this is Brian Fisher’s report that gives a slap to the coalition and a kick in the pants to labor for their respective economy wrecking emissions reduction folly .
            Labor of course gets the biggest smack down with estimates of $472billion hit to the economy ,50% increase in electricity and other economy killing data .

            https://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/climate/carbon-cut-apocalypse-cost-of-alp-energy-plan/news-story/96c9af15d670a6725146e356fd4b6414

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              Graeme#4

              Brian Fisher is a lukewarmer. However, his report seems to be accurate, focused and to the point. Naturally the GetUp brigade are claiming he is a conservative and coal industry shill, but nobody seems to be challenging him on what he has said.
              Currently The Oz seems to have ramped up its comments in this area, and they seemed to be aimed directly at Labor, both Federal and Qld.

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              Graeme#4

              Labor’s 45% emissions reduction target will drive electricity prices 50% higher, cost workers up to $9000 a year and wipe $472 billion from economy over next decade.
              Conservative reduction of 26% would wipe $70 billion from economy over next decade.
              Labor policy would result in 336,000 less jobs in 2030, while Conservative policy would mean 78,000 fewer jobs.
              Dr. Fisher was a lead author for 3 IPCC reports.
              Fisher also claims recent ANU report was “appallingly inaccurate”.

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                robert rosicka

                This report is not getting much MSM attention I notice .

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                Graeme#4

                Again, lots of articles in The Oz this morning re AGW and its impact on the economy. They are really getting stuck into it, but as somebody pointed out, since they are behind paywalls, they are preaching to the converted.

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                Graeme#4

                Apparently the BAE Econimics website has more interesting articles about renewables by Brian Fisher. Must have a look.

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        robert rosicka

        Only what I heard can’t find a link anywhere

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      Another Ian

      Pat

      “Coal collapse a “good thing” says Labor MP”

      That is also what Labor MPs said about their last big live export ban

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    pat

    Peter Gleeson on Sky just now: global warming, of course it is a big issue.

    20 Feb: AFR: Collapse of global market for thermal coal ‘a good thing’: Labor’s Richard Marles
    By Tom McIlroy
    Labor has denied it is split over the future of Adani’s $2 billion Carmichael mine, after senior frontbencher Richard Marles said the collapse of the global market for thermal coal was good “at one level”.
    Mr Marles, the opposition defence spokesman, said Labor leader Bill Shorten was showing great leadership over the future of the mine, shaping up as a key federal election issue and a critical part Labor’s plans to win back key Queensland seats, including in the mining towns of Mackay, Rockhampton and Gladstone.
    A close friend and powerful factional ally of Mr Shorten, the Corio MP said Labor would not provide taxpayer-funded backing for the scaled down mine project.

    Labor MPs are coming under sustained pressure from the CFMEU and powerful union bosses over the plan and development of the Galilee Basin, plans which have become a lightning rod for environmental activists and is beginning to split the party ahead of the May election.
    “We know that without public money in this space, it’s unlikely to go ahead, and that, I think is the end of it,” Mr Marles told Sky.

    “I mean the global market for thermal coal has collapsed and at one level, that’s a good thing, because what that implies is that the world is acting in relation to climate change.”
    Challenged over his characterisation of market demand, Mr Marles said the development was positive “because what that implies is that the world is moving to a more renewable energy sources.”
    “What it means is that the economic case for opening up the Galilee Basin isn’t now what it was a decade ago,” he said.

    Prime Minister Scott Morrison lashed the comments, accusing Mr Marles of saying the decline was “wonderful”.
    “He might think it’s wonderful… we don’t think it’s wonderful. In all of those places [people] who depend on those jobs don’t think it’s wonderful,” he told Parliament.

    In a statement, Mr Marles said he did not succeed in making his intended point
    “Coal clearly has an important and enduring role to play, even as we transition to more renewables, and I should have made that clear,” he said.

    On Wednesday, The Australian Financial Review reported Labor candidates in regional Queensland had split from the party’s line on Adani, saying the project was needed to bring more jobs to regional Queensland.

    While anti-Adani sentiments may play well in securing Green preferences in inner-city Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane, the mine is widely supported in regional Queensland.

    Zac Beers, Labor candidate in the Gladstone-based seat of Flynn and an organiser for the Australian Workers’ Union, has backed the project because of the jobs it would create.
    Deputy Labor leader Tanya Plibersek said she didn’t believe the jobs projections but denied Labor was split on Adani.
    “I keep reading all these articles about differences of opinion and that’s just not the case,” she told the National Press Club.
    “We see the jobs in the coal industry at the moment as very important jobs and that’s why we want to plan long-term with affected communities for their future.

    ***”What we have seen under this government is coal-fired power stations close with little or no warning, throwing people out of work, with no adjustment, no help to their communities but the simple economics of power generation mean that renewables are getting cheaper all the time.”

    Ms Plibersek said the world was moving away from coal-fired power generation, because it was becoming increasingly expensive and was contributing to global warming.
    “The data shows us that renewables are becoming cheaper all the time and to fantasise about building new coal-fired power stations with taxpayers’ money as some of the Liberals and Nationals are doing, is irresponsible.”…

    “The Labor Party doesn’t even know the first thing about coal now, let alone care for the future of coal workers or coal communities,” Mr Canavan said.
    One Nation leader Pauline Hanson said Labor wanted to sell voters out, and to “kill jobs and shut down the mining industry.”
    Labor frontbencher Brendan O’Connor said Labor supported coal as part of Australia’s energy mix…

    Greens MP for Melbourne Adam Bandt called on the opposition to clarify its position.
    “Labor needs to decide where it stands on Adani and on coal,” he said.
    https://www.afr.com/news/politics/collapse-of-global-market-for-thermal-coal-wonderful-labors-richard-marles-20190220-h1bhzj

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      robert rosicka

      Labor have been playing the solidarity card with good success but all of a sudden it seems to be crumbling , I’m hearing a lot of labor politicians begged Shorten not to tamper with the proven border policy .
      Adani is getting a mixed reception federally and state with a variety of views now becoming public such as Marles comment today .
      Some would argue all labor had to do was keep their mouth shut ,keep the unity and factional fighting in check and they would win the election without breaking a sweat .
      I must note that it’s only Fox News reporters that seem to be asking individual labor pollies these questions that reveal there are divisions within the party that may explode .

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    pat

    plenty of contradictions:

    20 Feb: Bloomberg: Glencore Brings the End of Thermal Coal a Step Closer
    When the world’s biggest shipper caps output, the future is dark for the black stuff.
    By David Fickling
    (David Fickling is a Bloomberg Opinion columnist covering commodities, as well as industrial and consumer companies. He has been a reporter for Bloomberg News, Dow Jones, the Wall Street Journal, the Financial Times and the Guardian)
    It’s only a few months ago that the world’s biggest commodity trader was promoting coal as – don’t laugh – a viable part of global emissions-reduction plans. Now Glencore Plc, the largest supplier of thermal coal to the international market, is promising to cap production for the foreseeable future at around current levels of 145 million metric tons a year, David Stringer of Bloomberg News reported Wednesday.
    The move is particularly striking because coal made up the biggest slice of Glencore’s profits in 2018 annual results published Wednesday, and the company is one of the few diversified miners proudly committed to the black stuff.

    Anglo American Plc attempted to sell all its coal assets during its abortive restructuring in 2016, but gave up because no one was willing to buy them at a price it found acceptable. Rio Tinto Group got rid of its last coal mines (to Glencore, no less) last year. BHP Group seems committed to its huge mines producing steelmaking coal, but appears less attached to the ones producing the thermal coal used in power generation…

    What’s changed?
    One factor is surely that major investors are increasingly putting pressure on companies to back away from the dirtiest emissions. Those that are still invested are increasingly likely to buck management on climate-related shareholder resolutions.

    Even Glencore hasn’t been pushing thermal coal as hard as its rhetoric might sometimes suggest – and that rhetoric has been riddled with contradictions, as my colleague Chris Bryant has pointed out. The company has made little secret of its opposition to Adani Enterprises Ltd.’s proposed Carmichael project in Australia, which would dump additional supply on a global seaborne market that can’t really digest it.

    The attempt to throttle back additional tonnage isn’t just about excluding competitors…

    ***Furthermore, Wednesday’s announcement doesn’t mean Glencore is turning its back on coal. Thanks to its investment in Rio Tinto’s mines north of Sydney in 2017, it’s likely to still be churning out the black stuff for decades. The planned output cap could be maintained well into the 2030s just by building out its current undeveloped projects…

    ***New wind and solar are already cheaper than coal in Australia, Brazil, Chile, China, Germany, India, Thailand, the U.K., the U.S. and Vietnam, according to Bloomberg New Energy Finance data. In Malaysia, the Philippines, Poland, and even Japan, the tipping point could come within months…

    ***Coal shipments last year topped one billion tons for the first time in history. The future looks darker. When the biggest producer calls time on the market, it’s time to shut up shop.
    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-02-20/glencore-brings-the-end-of-thermal-coal-a-step-closer

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      You sort of wonder if this is a ploy by the named coal mining company. Thinking that they are restricting their output of coal, the price then gets driven back up, and they make a yummy little profit. How cool is that eh!

      Tony.

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        robert rosicka

        Nothing about Glencore is making any sense , they are going to limit production due to environmental concerns – concerns from shareholders – concerns and blackmail from hardline environmental groups .
        If I had shares in this company I would only have concerns if they didn’t dig enough coal , greenies won’t be shareholders .
        Other coal companies share prices seem to be going up but can’t wait to see what happens with Glencore .

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      Another Ian

      Pat

      He probably predicted Hillary for president too

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    pat

    19 Feb: Voice of America: Reuters: Exec: India’s Thermal Coal Imports Could Rise 10 Percent This Year
    India’s thermal coal imports could rise by about 10 percent in 2019 due to rail transport problems and other logistical bottlenecks, an executive at the country’s largest coal trader Adani Enterprises said on Tuesday.
    Thermal coal imports rose in 2018 after two years of decline, despite moves by Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s government to cut the country’s imports in a bid to reduce the trade deficit.

    Rajendra Singh, chief operating officer for coal trading at Adani Enterprises, said thermal coal imports this year could total 174 million-177 million tons.
    “We expect a 10 percent increase in imported coal because of an immediate gap in supply from Coal India and power demand and demand from other sectors,” Singh said at the Coaltrans conference.

    Coal is among the top five commodities imported by India, and over three-fifths of its thermal coal imports come from Indonesia, while over a fifth is imported from South Africa…
    The Adani Group, which handles about a third of India’s imported coal, expects “rail transportation challenges” to lead to a “reasonable rise in imports” until fiscal year 2021 when they will stabilize.

    Singh said he expects small and medium scale industries such as the sponge iron industry, tile manufacturers, cement producers and textiles to contribute to higher demand for seaborne coal, adding that an industrial shift from petcoke to coal was fueling higher imports…

    Smaller scale industries have used imported coal in a big way, and while higher coal imports may be bad news for India’s trade deficit, they are a boon for international miners and global commodity merchants.
    https://www.voanews.com/a/exec-india-s-thermal-coal-imports-could-rise-10-percent-this-year/4794291.html

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    pat

    from ABC – comment #11:

    It (Glencore) said it would cap its global thermal and coking coal production at the current level of about 145 million tonnes

    a different way to report the same figure, which seems to be the figure for this year:

    20 Feb: 3 hours ago: MontelNews: Glencore to raise 2019 coal output by 12%
    by Laurence Walker, London
    Glencore will raise coal production by 12% this year, to 145m tonnes, as recently acquired Australian assets and Colombian mine developments bolster output, the Anglo-Swiss trading and mining firm said on Wednesday.
    “The full-year effects of the 2018 coal acquisitions and the expected increase in [Colombian firm] Prodeco’s production, drive an expected increase in 2019 consolidated production,” the firm said, in its full-year 2018 results.

    Glencore produced 129.4m tonnes of mainly thermal coal in 2018, up by 7% on the year, led by a 21% increase in Australian thermal coal output for export, which totalled 59.4m tonnes.
    This reflected more favourable weather conditions, disruptions due to industrial action in 2017 and the acquisition of Rio Tinto’s Hunter Valley Operations and Hail Creek mines mid-last year, Glencore said…

    In Colombia, Prodeco production fell 20% to 11.7m tonnes, due to “mine development activities”, which were “expected to increase the operation’s medium-term volume productivity and earnings prospects,” it said.
    READ ON
    https://www.montelnews.com/en/story/glencore-to-raise-2019-coal-output-by-12/984651

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    robert rosicka

    New standard for measuring forests .

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-20/fact-check-five-mcgs-of-native-forests-logged-in-victoria/10780846

    If they would stick to swimming pools I might have a better idea .

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    pat

    TOP OF CARBON BRIEF TONIGHT. 150M TONNES NOW:

    Glencore vows to cap global coal production
    Glencore, one of the world’s largest mining and commodities trading companies, has vowed to cap its coal production in what the FT calls the “face of pressure from big investors who are pushing natural resource companies to take firmer action on climate change”. The FT adds: “The mining and trading group led by Ivan Glasenberg on Wednesday said it would cap its production of thermal and coking coal at about 150m tonnes per annum, close to its planned output level in 2019, with further expansion of its coal business largely ruled out. The move is likely to send shockwaves across the coal industry because of the company’s bullish stance on the highly polluting fossil fuel. Glencore is the world’s top coal exporter and one of the biggest producers outside of China.

    Mr Glasenberg is himself a former trader and vocal champion of coal, which is used to generate electricity and also produce steel.” The Sydney Morning Herald says: “Glencore will instead focus on metals such as cobalt, nickel, vanadium and zinc, which are all key components of batteries as it targeted lower carbon industries as its customers…Glencore said it would examine its membership of trade associations to ensure those groups aligned with the Paris climate agreement and Paris goals.”

    Reacting to the news in the Australian Financial Review, columnist Matthew Stevens says: “It says everything about the intellectual savvy and raw power of the global anti-coal lobby that it has corralled [Glencore CEO] Ivan Glasenberg into a profound public concession on coal mining.” Glasenberg’s fierce reputation (and former pro-coal stance) is such that “his ear-battered competitors say the softest thing about Glasenberg is the enamel of his teeth”.

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      robert rosicka

      Virtue signaling from a company that has only just acquired some major coal assets, this will backfire if the news spooks their shareholders .

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    pat

    hilarious.

    19 Feb: BBC: Cultured lab meat may make climate change worse
    By Matt McGrath
    Growing meat in the laboratory may do more damage to the climate in the long run than meat from cattle, say scientists…
    Researchers say it depends on how the energy to make the lab meat is produced…
    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-47283162

    link in following doesn’t take u to audio segment, it seems, but lots of laughs on this page anyway:

    20 Feb: BBC: Apples or raspberries? The best climate-friendly foods
    By Sam Walker
    BBC Radio 5 Live presenter
    Food production is responsible for a quarter of all greenhouse gas emissions, contributing to global warming, according to a University of Oxford study.
    However, the researchers found that the environmental impact of different foods varies hugely…

    For BBC Radio 5 Live’s Cool Planet season (LINK), I wanted to find out how making small changes to our grocery choices can have a big impact on the planet, so I went shopping with Professor Mike Berners-Lee from Lancaster University who specialises in climate change and sustainable food systems…
    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-47278822

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    Richard Ilfeld

    Off topic by a mile …..

    As a resident of the US with limited world travel experience, I have a serious question.
    Is there a flyover Australia?

    If you were dropped in vast areas of the US, you would find friendly, practical, hard-working people
    living normal lives. You would see nothing of the narratives that dominate the news….
    not grinding proverty, not armies of red-hat wearing mobs, not an underfed and unmedicated population.
    The public square in thousand of small and medium size towns you might land in would be full of people going to and fro on their daily business, and, mostly working pretty hard. They would be pretty uniformly friendly, I think, and ready to chat with a stranger, polite but curious. In the extreme, if you were lost, confused, or somehow distressed I think you’d be offered assistance.
    If you broached what had been represented in the international press as the critical questions of the day, you’d probably
    get an aw shucks brush off…we don’t really all live with angry and contentious hair triggers.

    Folks would appear realatively happy and relatively prosperous.

    Energy problems are real….and rates are going up dramatically.
    Changes in society can be real too.

    I believe, without personal experience, that dropping into Venezuela today would be vastly different that 20 year ago …..
    With personal experience, there are some parts of Europe that are not the same culture they once were.

    Here’s hoping, away from the cultural elites, you folks are holding out OK; and that ordinary folks will be able to hold out
    against the civilization destroyers. One of the biggest changes in the US may be that folks who are ‘living in their own movie’ are being geographically constrained — with 50 different sovereign states we have tools to resist looney ideas that not every country has. Our friends in Canada to the North seem to be surviving the same way as the provinces resist the worst impulses of Ottowa, and
    the small town still think junior hockey is more important than national politics.

    Here there is hope in the hinterlands. et tu?

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      Hanrahan

      All we have is a fly-over desert. If you were to look at a map you would see a few inland lakes marked but L. Eyre is a salt lake suitable for land speed records.

      We mainly live on the narrow coastal strip on the east/south east coast. What towns we have inland are forgotten and struggling.

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    Hanrahan

    Global Warming Doomsday Prophesy: 100 Million Climate Refugees by 2050

    Or so Breitbart cheerfully tells us.

    David Wallace-Wells is taking his climate change fear mongering to a new level. He has transformed his doomsday pieces featured in the past two years in New York magazine into a book, The Uninhabitable Earth: Life After Warming, released today.
    James Delingpole, the executive editor of Breitbart London, has written about Wallace-Wells’ previous over-the-top predictions about global warming, including an article in the magazine last year:

    Climate change is going to kill at least 150 million people and there’s nothing we can do to stop it.

    Well, at least it is if you believe climate doomster David Wallace-Wells in the latest issue of New York magazine. Things are bad. Really bad. We didn’t listen and now we can expect to pay a terrible price — starting with all those deaths:

    Numbers that large can be hard to grasp, but 150 million is the equivalent of 25 Holocausts. It is five times the size of the death toll of the Great Leap Forward — the largest non-military death toll humanity has ever produced. It is three times the greatest death toll of any kind: World War II.

    More at:
    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/02/20/global-warming-doomsday-prophesy-100-million-climate-refugees-by-2050/

    BTW Has any doomsayer explained exactly HOW a minor change in temperature will actually kill people rater tham make them a little warmer/happier?

    20

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    el gordo

    ‘New independent modelling has found Labor’s 45 per cent emissions-­reduction target would push power prices 50 per cent higher.’ Oz

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    el gordo

    ‘Richard Marles says it would be “a good thing” if thermal coal, the nation’s top export ­industry worth over $25bn, collapsed.’ Oz

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    • #
      AndyG55

      Next kiddies strike to be held on Sunday afternoon or during school holidays.

      That way they can ALL attend . ! ;-)

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        AndyG55

        Just imagine the traffic jams of a whole lot of suburban mums dropping little suburban AOCs off to a Sunday climate march.

        And the communication towers would be going haywire, sucking up HUGE amounts of power just for their cooling systems. !!

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    Another Ian

    “We Don’t Need No Stinking Giant Fans”

    “Australians have the most expensive electricity in the world for a reason. Somehow Chinese hackers or a renewables marketing team must have snuck into the ANU to write most of the report. Of the six summary conclusions, the first two are obvious and the last four are fantasy. They are only “straight-forward” or “sustainable” if you have $10 trillion dollars to spare and you can’t think of anything better to do with it.”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2019/02/20/we-dont-need-no-stinking-giant-fans-15/

    Leads to

    https://stopthesethings.com/2019/02/19/australias-obsession-with-hopelessly-intermittent-wind-solar-wrecking-entire-power-grid/amp/

    Where Jo gets mentioned

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      Maptram

      Just a comment on the second blog.

      It should be said as often as possible, renewables are at their most productive, under weather conditions produced by climate change.

      Solar energy is only produced by sunlight. It drops off when the sun goes behind a cloud, it doesn’t work at all in fog or on rainy days, so it works best under drought conditions, and when these conditions occur the believers always blame climate change.

      Wind generators don’t work when there is little or no wind. They work best under strong winds, again produced by climate change.

      Hydro energy requires water, which is usually provided by rain, the more the better. But more than normal rain is always blamed on climate change.

      So a renewables system requires all three methods of production, with all the extra costs of construction, maintenance, connection to the grid, transport. And all three can’t work at the same time, if it rains, there may energy for hydro power, but solar doesn’t work. But it’s possible that all three may not provide power at the same time, a drought is possible with cloudy days and no wind, under which conditions no renewable energy will be produced.

      Because there is no guarantee of production, a fourth system is also required, using fossil fuels, to ensure that supply of energy is guaranteed

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        robert rosicka

        Solar panels don’t like heat and also won’t export power or generate power if the volts get too high , if you have enough solar houses in close proximity and conditions are good you end up with too much power being generated and the inverter shuts down .

        40

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      AndyG55

      “or a renewables marketing team must have snuck into the ANU ”

      You obviously don’t know ANU… it IS a renewable marketing team.

      41

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    Maptram

    More potential subsidies

    Do the local councils, who are often dominated by Greens, require building approval for a solar system, or more to the point, do they charge for building approval for a solar system. If not, the other ratepayers would be making up the loss of revenue from the solar system, through higher rates

    Do the local councils in areas where there are large commercial solar systems, charge rates on the land occupied by the system. Again, if not, other ratepayers would make up the loss of revenue

    30

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      robert rosicka

      Excellent point Maptram , most of the land used for solar farms would be zoned “rural” , but after the paddocks are built on and covered they should be rezoned to “industrial ” and the capital improved value should jump in price .
      Big problem with that is it’s the state government that determines this or so I’m led to believe .

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    Peter Fitzroy

    Coal power baron Trevor St Baker is spending nearly $30 million to build a nationwide electric vehicle charging network, calling on Australians to “embrace” clean energy.

    Writing meet wall – Old King Coal is dead

    14

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      AndyG55

      No thanks, I’ll just hang onto my V8 Commodore.

      1000 + new coal stations around the world.

      If Australia doesn’t supply the coal that just mean INCREASED CO2 emissions over what would occur if Australia did supply the coal.

      $30 million is a pittance, and where do you think that electricity will come from for the few charging stations it builds??

      COAL of course.

      Coal is well and truly alive.

      And there is nothing the AGW agenda can do about it.

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    • #
      Peter Fitzroy

      So Glencore, Rocky Hill, and now St Baker.

      For the data nerds:
      If no new mines are approved in the Hunter, how long will the reserves last?

      02

      • #
        AndyG55

        A long time.!!!

        1000 + new coal stations around the world.

        Our coal ? or yuckier coal?

        The greenie fake-science, anti-coal agenda in Australia will cause an INCREASE of CO2 emissions on the global scale, while hurting the Australian economy.

        just DUMB !!!

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          Peter Fitzroy

          last time I was in Bali, we noticed that roosters were in little cages next to the roads. When we asked, we were told the traffic continually upset them Do the coal trains do the same for you and coal trains?

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            AndyG55

            oh dearie me, little bubby doesn’t like a bit of noise.. sob sob.

            You sound more and more pathetic with every post, pfutz

            Strengthen your wrists, they are all limp..

            I live 150m from the main coal line to Port Waratah, coal trains are not a problem.

            Well maintained locos, just easing along gently. Barely hear them.

            They are only noisy if they are empty heading back up the valley, and have to stop, but the new multi-million dollar upgrades to Hexham staging yard make that very rare indeed.

            Hexham staging also helps the steady through-flow for the continued increase in coal to Kooragang and PW.

            The noisy trains are the freight trains, badly maintain wheels and all.

            But unless you are weak pathetic little petal, not a problem.

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        Peter Fitzroy

        For the Hunter, with no new mines, between 18-40 years, depending on extraction rates. Now If you want to build a new coal fired power plant, would you do so on the basis that your feedstock is running out?

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        • #
          AndyG55

          This anti-CO2 idiocy can’t last that long, there is no scientific basis for it.

          Do you really think any rational government would let the coal mines in NSW die out?

          You really do live in fantasy la-la-land, pfutz.

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          beowulf

          Interesting logic.

          So there will be no gas turbines and no diesel generators in your world either. I’m not aware that either of those sources its own fuel from nearby. If we can ship diesel across the world, we can ship a bit of coal a couple of hundred km in 40 years’ time to an existing power station with all of its existing infrastructure.

          As it happens, Vales Point PS already plans to ship coal down from Gunnedah when it expands its generation capacity.

          “. . . with no new mines . . .”. With no new windmills or solar panels they’ll all be in a toxic heap in 15 years, long before the coal power stations close from lack of fuel.

          So tell us, do you believe we should halt the mining of all coking coal as well?

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            AndyG55

            Can’t make wind turdines or solar panels without LOTS of coal. :-)

            cement, steel etc

            heck, they will have to keep expanding coal production, just to keep up with the replacement of dead wind turbines. ! :-)

            And let’s no go near EV batteries, solar panels, etc the mining for which will consume VAST amounts of fossil fuels.

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            Peter Fitzroy

            So you make my point. Thanks

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              AndyG55

              What a pointless comment

              Can’t take the FACT that this is but a momentary lull

              China, India, will need coal, who better to get it from but Australia

              Can’t make turbines/solar panels without coal, POC (your new nickname, in honour of your mental equivalent, AOC)

              And they have to be renewed very regularly.

              The continued use of large quantities of coal is assured, POC. :-)

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                Peter Fitzroy

                Less and less of ours due to the most stupid government in our recent history

                03

              • #
                AndyG55

                roflmao..

                Are you a different pfitz ??

                Yes the government is stupid for doing anything that reduced or slows Australia’s coal industry.

                And Labor will be even more stupid, is that even possible.

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          robert rosicka

          Peak coal heh .

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    • #
      Hanrahan

      So Mr St Baker is going to spend $30 mill on charging stations. Is this charity or a business venture?

      If the latter there must be a profit on the resale of the power which I have not seen included in any cost/benefit of EVs yet. Unless his business plan involves making a killing in the cafe, I reckon any operator would need 25% margin because of the relatively slow charge rate. That will be on top of any increases caused by the 50% renewable mandate labor proposes.

      BTW the Commonwealth will need to tax EVs to make up for any loss of fuel tax revenue. Unsubsidised EVs will never be cheaper than ICEs to operate.

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      • #
        Peter Fitzroy

        A chancer like St Baker, will be gambling that if he can get the best spots, he’ll get a monopoly. Most EV’s will get 80% in 30 minutes, given that you should take a break every 2 hours, that puts the stations at 200k spacings for highways. So you stop, charge, caffeinate, and be on your way

        I do not understand your last sentence, but I’ll have a go
        IF you follow this comparison;
        https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/projects/electricvehicles/about/compare

        Then you would have to tax an extra $1050.00/pa (in Queensland for this example)

        14

        • #
          AndyG55

          Well, governments are not going to raise much from a “distance” tax on EVs now are they. !

          30

        • #
          AndyG55

          And remember, renewables and their subsidies and kick-backs, and carbon extortion will be pushing electricity costs higher and higher.

          EVs will just get more and more expensive to run.

          41

        • #
          Hanrahan

          Problems with your comparison:

          First line. No way can you buy an EV for just $9,000 more than an equiv. sized ICE. The Hyundai IONIQ is $50,000, the 2019 Hyundai i30 Go 2.0GDi auto: $22,290. Normal depreciation is 30 – 50% in three years so there goes any savings immediately.
          Second and third line. Why are EVs subsidised when they are heavier. I said unsubsidised in my post.
          Line 6. This is unrealistic. As I said any commercial venture will be charging a sizeable retail mark up.
          Your $1,000/y savings will be dwarfed by capital losses. I originally looked at the Leaf for costings but could not find any new listed in Oz but in the us you can buy a 2019 Nissan Leaf S FWD – $18,999, list price $32,850.
          Look them up here: https://www.cargurus.com/
          Anyone who believes that state and commonwealth govs will allow the taxes on cars to evaporate are cuckoo. They WILL tax them before long. The commonwealth in particular could not live without their petrol tax. Taxing the battler in a Corolla while subsidising rich dudes will not be popular at election time.

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      el gordo

      It seems like only yesterday ST Baker was saying we need new coal plants.

      ‘His push for government support for new coal plants has also won support from the National Party’s deputy leader Bridget McKenzie, the then Deputy Prime Minister Barnaby Joyce and his replacement Michael McCormack.’

      RenewEconomy

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  • #
    Peter Fitzroy

    The Stone Age did not end because we run out of stones, and the coal age will not end when we have run out of coal

    04

  • #
    yarpos

    on their ABC tonight their was a small item on China refusing to take Oz coal at Dalian Port, affecting approx 10% of coal exports. Nobody is sure yet of the political/economic drivers for the ban. The main point was reached when the reporter stated that the affect on the OZ economy could be marked if it continues as coal had taken over from iron ore as our main export.

    When they cut back you could see the news readers cage rattling from that statement, almost embarrased it was a “moving right along, in other news……” moment

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  • #

    ===
    ❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶
    ❶①❶①
    ❶①❶① . . . Global Warming Travel Warning . . .
    ❶①❶①
    ❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶①❶
    ====

    The IPCC has issued an urgent travel warning.

    Many people are foolishly travelling to countries, which have an average temperature which is more than 2 degrees Celsius warmer than their home country.

    This activity is highly dangerous, and could result in the deaths of millions of people.

    The IPCC suggests that people limit their travel, to countries which have an average temperature which is less than 1.5 degrees Celsius warmer than their home country.

    Humans evolved in Africa, many millions of years ago. Climate scientists use the abbreviation “BT”, when they refer to this time (“BT” stands for “Before Thermometers”).

    In the early days, early humans never travelled more than a few miles, over their entire lifetime. They never travelled more than a few miles, because kilometres had not yet been invented.

    Humans, therefore, became adapted to a very narrow temperature range. Going outside of that narrow temperature range, could be deadly. Many early humans were eaten by lions, because they went outside of their normal temperature range.

    But early humans had one advantage, that the other animals didn’t have. Because they never washed, early humans tasted horrible, and they didn’t smell very nice. So the other animals left early humans alone. And humans were able to travel all over the Earth.

    ====================

    Scientists have proved that travel and temperatures, are more dangerous than smoking 60 cigarettes a day, for 50 years.

    It is safer to stay at home, and take up smoking, than to go travelling in warmer countries.

    Don’t worry. We understand that humans have an “urge” to travel. It comes from our early ancestry, when we had to find large herds of animals to eat.

    Here at the IPCC, we want what is best for YOU. And we have had our top scientists work out a “safe” way of travelling.

    To ensure your personal temperature safety, the IPCC has emitted the following travel regulations.

    Travel will be limited to “safe” country groups. This means that travel may only take place between a country, and the other countries that are in the same temperature safety group.

    For further details, please click the following link:

    https://agree-to-disagree.com/global-warming-travel-warning

    10

  • #
    Carbon500

    Here’s the latest nonsensical garbage from the UK – the idea that all gas fired domestic cooking and heating appliances should be eventually be banned. Read on, and be amazed at the clowns we have in our government over here. I despair.
    https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/

    10

  • #
    Ian Wilson

    Jo,

    It looks as though all but one (the exception being Katia) of the 15 Topical Depressions/Storms/Hurricanes that occurred during the 2017 North Atlantic Hurricane season supports the claim that:

    Tropical depressions or storms that appear in the Atlantic Ocean between the Equator and 25.0 degrees North during the North Atlantic Hurricane season, will do so on dates that are maxima or minima in the lunar-induced changes in the relative angular velocity of the Earth’s rotation. [N.B. the dates that are maxima or minima in the lunar-induced changes in the relative angular velocity occur close to the times when the Moon crosses the Earth’s equator or reaches lunar standstill (i.e. the Moon is furthest north or south of the Equator).]

    https://astroclimateconnection.blogspot.com/2019/02/north-atlantic-hurricane-season-june-to.html

    This claim is also supported true by 10 of the 12 Topical Depressions/Storms/Hurricanes that occurred during the Hurricane season 2016.

    KEY FOR FIGURES

    Pot# = Potential Tropical Cycle number #
    TD = Tropical Depression
    TS = Tropical Storm
    CATN = Category N Hurricane where N = 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5.
    PK = Peak Activity
    Regen. = Regenerated

    10

  • #
    el gordo

    It was wetter during the LIA, perhaps because of an increase in cosmic ray bombardment. This from Law Dome.

    https://watertechbyrie.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/vance2012-antartica-law-dome-ice-core-salt-content-e1540939103404.jpg

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    Slithers

    Off topic a bit.

    Chines ship refused entry to Australian ports. Contaminated ballast water a serious threat to the Great Barrier Reef.

    Ships crews with recent entry to Chinees waters hospitalize tested for mystery illness.

    Australian Coal Exporter signs new long term deal with Japan, Taiwan wants similar deal, Vietnam and Thailand also interested in similar deals with Australia.

    Chinese coal fired electricity generating plant building program severely limited by shortage of cokeing coal..

    00

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