JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Midweek Unthreaded

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Midweek Unthreaded, 9.2 out of 10 based on 35 ratings

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271 comments to Midweek Unthreaded

  • #
    Jonesy

    I deliver bulk LPG and for the life of me, I cannot understand why even the depot price is so bloody high. We have 30 years of supply left in Bass Strait platforms alone. Not one joule is imported, not a lot is needed to strip the gas off the crude train, it burns cleaner than petrol yet has lost out to outrageous pricing. Plenty of onshore fields untapped in Victoria alone. These are conventional fields without even going near the need to evil frac.

    A green fuel going to waste!

    320

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Ah! But Dan Andrews has banned gas being extracted from the ground. He wants Victorians to rely on wind and sun, like people did back in medieval times.
      As I understand bulk LPG is a mix of propane and butane, whereas natural gas is methane (plus a bit of ethane). All of these by-products of oil extraction, as are some higher boiling hydrocarbons e.g. hexane which generally go into petrol or solvents.

      As for the pricing I suspect that the oil companies are charging “what the market will bear”. They are not known as charities.

      250

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Dangerous Dan is working on returning us to horse and cart days, so I nominate this worthy Comrade for the position of The Nightman, to colect all the pans from the loos each night….

        171

      • #
        James

        It is probably impossible to build an LPG import terminal in Australia, so as a result Australia does not benefit from world parity pricing when the price drops. When the price increases on the world market, so does Australian LPG. When it drops, well the market is used to the price so it is time to make profit.

        60

    • #
      Jeff

      LPG vehicle as a fuel appears to be dying somewhat.
      There seems to be a trend of taking the bowsers out of service stations.
      Seems a real pity, it was once being hailed as a replacement clean fuel.

      Pros

      1/ Cheaper, but not much as LPG has risen in price.
      2/ Burns cleaner than petrol and therefore emissions of particulates is very low.
      Also non-toxic, non-corrosive and free of tetra-ethyl lead and additives.
      3/ High octane rating (higher rating means less likely an engine is to pre-ignite and suffer damage)
      4/ Not imported from overseas refineries.

      Cons

      1/ Conversions expensive, no rebate anymore.
      2/ Harder to find bowsers.
      3/ Tank takes up room.
      4/ Lower kms per gallon (20-25%)
      5/ Expensive inspection required after 10 years.

      130

      • #
        clivehoskin

        You can blame OUR”Cowardly,Lying,Do Nothing,Career Politicians”for killing off LPG cars.I can remember when we were paying 11 cents a liter as opposed to 50 cents a liter for petrol.Our betters kept increasing the tax on it,until it just wasn’t viable any more.

        111

        • #
          Jeff

          The tax on LPG is an Australian Government fuel excise of $0.134 per litre, as at August 2018.
          For unleaded petrol (regular or premium grades) and diesel the price it is $0.412 per litre.

          LPG tax of 13¢ versus petrol 41¢ seems a fair amount less.

          30

      • #
        yarpos

        20-25% less km per litre/gall seems very harsh. I have an LPG Hilux (injected gas) and the diff is only about 10% on that. I havent noticed this pump removal trend, maybe it has a head start in other States outside VIC. True to say its becoming less attractive, I dont know if I would have gone the same way with todays numbers.

        50

        • #

          20 years ago I fitted an lpg converted Ford 302 Windsor motor to my Dyna crew cab truck. It was a dodgy conversion though, standard valves, and they wore deeply as they cut into the heads. I rebuilt the motor and had stainless steel valve seats fitted to the heads, and used stellite valves. It runs like a clock to this day, and is great to drive. Gas was 9c/l in NSW, petrol was 45cpl. I machined up a converting mounting flange for the diff, and used a 4.1:1 Landcruiser diff centre to replace the Dyna 5.8:1, so I can do 140 kph, cruise at 100 at 1800 revs. My fuel economy improved from 12 mpg to 20 mpg when running petrol. I remember the Howard govt deciding to tax lpg at a similar energy rate to petrol, so that people made fuel choices not based on avoiding the fuel excise. Would have been better to scrap the excise altogether, it is a disastrous idea and hurts our economy every single day. It was introduced by Fraser on the excuse of preparing us for runaway energy costs due to world oil shortages. Just like global warming – never happened. Far better to just tax incomes and be honest about it, rather than steal money in hidden ways.

          60

      • #
        robert rosicka

        LPG is hard on valves .

        22

        • #
          James

          Run some Moreys or Flash lube they should be okay.

          20

        • #
          yarpos

          Valve seats really, but it depends on the motor. I know of many Toyotas than have between 500k kms and a mill. Mine has 420k kms on gas. Not wise to go out of the known compatible units though, most of the conversion shops can advise.

          00

    • #
      Bodge it an scarpa

      There was an article in the RACV magazine a while ago concerning the phasing out of LPG for automotive use within 2 years or so,citing the loss of the major market, mainly taxis going to Hybrids, as well as the gradual disappearance from our road of older less fuel efficient cars, petrol powered trucks and 4WDs. I got confirmation of this from the Supagas depot in Bayswater Vic, where they said that they will keep selling Propane and auto gas for vehicles only for as long as their bowsers keep working without needing overhaul.
      My old V8 RangeRover and LandRover are only just viable costwise on LPG, so a Diesel engine conversion on one or both is definitely in the pipeline. Those who purchased new dedicated LPG Holdens and Falcons will be spitting chips over this, as it likely would cost quite a bit to convert their engines to run on petrol.

      70

  • #
    Another Ian

    “We Don’t Need No Flaming Sparky Cars”

    “I’m old enough to remember when there were going to be “a million electric cars on the road by 2015”: SIX YEARS AGO OBAMA PROMISED TO BUY A CHEVY VOLT. NOW IT IS DEAD. ”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2018/11/27/we-dont-need-no-flaming-sparky-cars-14/#comments

    100

    • #
      glen Michel

      A regional problem in my view.Russia is very concerned at Ukraine’s direction as it does not want US and NATO ships invited by Ukraine on their doorstep.Of course the Western media will beat up on Putin and Russia generally.

      00

  • #
    Another Ian

    A one sentence summation of Australia’s power problem

    “When talking wind and solar power just remember the old saying of ” I am from the government and here to help.” ”

    https://www.redpowermagazine.com/forums/topic/118052-wind-farms/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-1243533

    110

  • #
  • #
    el gordo

    LAME DUCK

    ‘It’s emerged crossbench MPs knew weeks ahead of Julia Banks’s plan to quit, but Scott Morrison wasn’t warned.’ Oz

    121

    • #
      Greebo

      He’s been a lame duck since day one. I wonder if Tony Abbott is looking forward to being OL again.

      80

      • #
        el gordo

        Tony is prepared to be Opposition Leader again but the moderates will need to be purged. If Craig Kelly is not preselected he is bound to walk over to the cross bench to get away from the stench.

        142

  • #
    • #
      Peter C

      Yes!

      The south polar surface pressure chart shows the Hadley zones very nicely. The circumpolar low pressure zone forms into a series of low pressure cells. Very intense low pressures at that. Check the 947mB region. That would be a catgory 5 cyclone if it was in the mid lattitudes.

      60

      • #
        el gordo

        They are referring to this south east Australia low pressure as a ‘cold cyclone’,

        20

        • #
          Greg in NZ

          https://www.marineweather.co.nz/pressure

          Hey hey hey, don’t send us MORE of your rubbish weather. And to think your venerable Bureau of Mmmph prophesied a warm and dry spring for the southeast… Not to fret, we’ve got our own circus clowns over here:

          https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/376959/climate-change-co2-emissions-rising-for-first-time-in-four-years

          “A climate scientist from Victoria University of Wellington, James Renwick, said… we won’t be meeting the Paris Agreement… even with just one degree of warming, we’ve seen major forest fires, unprecedented rainfalls and severe droughts. He said with three degrees, these events will be ‘more powerful and more damaging… major crop failures, damage to food security, and water availability… coastal cities around the world would be inundated’.” Oh dear, that old hoary story again.

          Designed a new T-shirt tonight: green text on black, no punctuation, no capitals, no nuffink – climates do what they always do in the meantime enjoy the weather ;-)

          120

    • #
      glen Michel

      I have never seen AAO in such a negative phase at this time of year. Interesting.

      10

  • #
    RickWill

    ALP made huge gains in the Victorian state elections. Liberals ran a negative campaign that failed. Congestion is the big issue for Melbourne and ALP have been chipping away at that with a plan to keep forging ahead. The previous liberal government made little progress on congestion. Their one big project was canned by Labor at huge cost.

    What about federal level. Is the LNP too conflicted over energy policy? What is the bigger vote winner – Dismantling the RET or upping the RET target?

    I saw an interview with John Howard on their ABC – we missed the earlier weather report so went to the ABC! ABC was in the background but caught Howard talk about government subsidies for renewable energy starting around 8:50:
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-28/julia-banks-warned-by-john-howard-of-debt-to-liberal-party/10560938
    This indicates he has no clue how his government’s RET operates to transfer money from the accounts of disadvantaged to the accounts of owners of wind and solar farms and, to a lesser degree, to owners of rooftop solar.

    If dismantling the RET has any hope then there needs to be very broad and clear education on how the RET operates.

    170

    • #
      clivehoskin

      Little Johnny Howard IS a Globalist.He conned us into giving up our fire-arms(for our own safety)This should be a lesson to everyone here.It turns out our so called”Conservative”was in fact a”Globalist”following his orders from the UN(as per agenda 21,now agenda 2030)

      A couple of instances to help you make up your own minds…
      The gun buy back that was a con….https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=285&v=FUNNmfOtmv8
      The truth about Port Arthur(Tasmania Australia)https://gumshoenews.com/2017/10/17/episode-1-justice-lucky-country-port-arthur-massacre/

      63

      • #
        robert rosicka

        You probably should have stopped before Port Arthur , the rest I agree with .
        Don’t forget Politicians want us to not judge the actions of a few on the many , and this is exactly what little Jonny did wrong among many other things like opening the door to let in Green group think policy’s and sending money to Clintons slush fund .
        All unforgivable .

        53

      • #
        James

        After that I let my Liberal Party Membership lapse, and five years later I left the country.

        50

      • #
        glen Michel

        100%clivehoskin.

        00

      • #
        yarpos

        still got all of mine (legally I should add :-)

        00

    • #
      yarpos

      Personally, absent grid collapse/blackouts , there is zero chance of RET dismantling. That is just energy nerd fantasy for the people here. Yes it should happen but back in reality land the people that vote these idiots into power have no clue what you are talking about and dont care as long as the lights turn on and increases are keeping to whinging level (everyone complains, but everyone pays)

      90

  • #
    Another Ian

    “What Was Earth’s Preindustrial Global Mean Surface Temperature, In Absolute Terms Not Anomalies, Supposed to Be?”

    “Figure 3

    As is plainly visible and as noted at the bottom of the illustration, The Most-Recent 30-Year Averages of Observed Global Surface Temperatures Have Not Yet Reached the Warmest of the Modeled Preindustrial Global Temperatures!”

    More at

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/11/27/what-was-earths-preindustrial-global-mean-surface-temperature-in-absolute-terms-not-anomalies/

    72

    • #
      Craig Thomas

      …in which an ex-TV-weatherman discovers that there is more uncertainty in data that is older than in newer data….

      Gosh, how amazing.

      517

      • #
        Another Ian

        Craig’s reading comprehension on full display again

        123

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          It might be school work experience week again….how time flies….

          92

        • #
          Kinky Keith

          It’s the suit, a hundred years old and the odour might be a distraction.

          C’mon Moikle we all know it’s just a game to see how many people they can mislead. So far they’re doing very well since most people accept that climate change is real.

          The reason they believe has to do with media exposure rather than the science.

          Politics at its finest.

          132

          • #
            AndyG55

            “It’s the suit, a hundred years old and the odour might be a distraction.”

            Naphthalene fumes can be dangerous to the mind if inhaled too much.

            Damages the red blood cells so you get less oxygen to the brain.

            Witness.. CT !!

            88

      • #
        el gordo

        CT the comments over there are very enlightening, this is a big picture item involving paleo climate history and atmospheric science.

        We are at the end of the Holocene and this slight global warming blip is not a hockey stick, more like a Scafetta wave on the road to a mini ice age.

        84

      • #
        AndyG55

        Waiting for CT to discover REALITY.

        But not holding my breathe.

        Not really expecting it to actually happen at all.

        88

      • #
        • #
          scaper...

          By introducing more water into the cycle by extracting from aquifers…of course it would be the the strongest greenhouse effect.

          I put the theory here years ago but it was ignored.

          51

        • #
          theRealUniverse

          What recent warming? Evrything is controlled by the solar output, that includes, proton flux , solar wind.

          62

          • #
            tom0mason

            Exactly theRealUniverse,

            We’ve so far climbed a mere 0.7° (in a hundred years) out of the Little Ice Age, and the idiots want everyone to feel guilty about it. It looks and smell just like natural variation, nothing more.

            111

            • #
              Dave in the States

              Ignoring longer terms trends and making faulty assumptions about cause and effect happens all the time. Today the early morning news were they still trying to keep last week’s biased National Climate Assessment in the news cycle. They had a local “scientist” claiming that his pine needles analysis show warmer temps from 50 years ago, and they we need to stop emitting co2. No mention that 50 years ago we were in a cooling off period that followed a very warm early 20th century warming trend and when co2 was 310 ppm. Can’t see the forest for the trees I guess. Now they are talking about how there “is more co2 polluting our air than we thought.” Sigh…………

              101

              • #
                Dave in the States

                During the noon news they were warning us that temps will go up 3.3 degrees C by 2100 according to the fourth assessment from last week. I wonder what tonight’s bit of BS from the 4th will be?

                62

      • #
        Roger

        Craig, the point is simple, so simple that any Alarmist should be able to grasp it.

        IPCC scaremongering about rises of 2 to 3 degrees are based on Models, those same models when used to hindcast i.e. recreate Past Temperatures, produce Past Temperatures which are Higher than their future forecasts of temperatures.

        So maybe you can now understand that the models can’t be relied upon ….. and based on their predictions at any time over the past 25 years or so we know with Proven Certainty that they are always many degrees to hot.

        The flatline trend in global temperatures over the last 18 years and it’s small decline of late shows how that only a fool, lunatic or religious fanatic would place any faith in those models … they have only one consistent factor and that is the are unable they temperature projections right and fail at that 100% of the time.

        101

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Garbage even referring to ‘pre-industrial global temps’. When is ‘pre-industrial’? Then was the Dalton minimum early 1800′s Napolean invades Russia what an idiot! froze 80% of his army to death. Then 1650s to 1750 Maunder minimum (LIA). The temps are meaningless. Doesnt prove anything.

      71

  • #
    John Sayers

    How do you join the Saltbush Club?

    50

    • #
      el gordo

      Try this for starters.

      To join, send an email to Viv Forbes . Obviously replace AT with @.

      30

    • #
      philthegeek

      How do you join the Saltbush Club?

      I think membership requires a lobotomy first?? :)

      616

      • #
        AndyG55

        Poor phlip, is your attention deficit syndrome hitting you hard this week, little boy ??

        And no.. you were thinking of GetUp! where you obviously come from..

        .. after several treatments.

        910

      • #
        el gordo

        Pulling out of Paris would create political chaos, bring it on.

        I think Morrison has what it takes to bring about a revolution.

        40

        • #
          David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

          G’day e g,
          I’d like to think you’re right, but don’t have your confidence,
          Cheers,
          Dave B

          70

        • #
          Peter C

          I don’t think that he has what it takes. If only he did.

          Pulling out right now would create political chaos, especially within the Liberal Party!

          However, it would create conditions in which the debate would be on for young and old. Could be the best thing that Morrison could do.

          50

        • #
          philthegeek

          Pulling out of Paris would create political chaos, bring it on.

          Lol! with respect eg, i dont think you can teach our ScoMo, or any of the Libs, anything about creating political kaos. :)

          64

          • #
            scaper...

            Kaos? HAHAHAHAHA! The geek is a Get Smart freak. Or most likely a wannabe secreted agent. Intellectual Pygmy.

            36

            • #
              Phillthegeek

              Fail. :)

              Different cultural reference of a somewhat higher order. But that’s probably not enough of a clue for you.

              54

              • #
                AndyG55

                I just assumed that you couldn’t spell.

                Not really ScoMo that’s creating chaos.

                That would be the Liberal left as they try to dismantle the party from within.

                66

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                Dont you have some pointless “Smash the…” protest to be at?

                Up the workers!!

                10

          • #
            AndyG55

            Turnbull was a Labor=lite, ScoMo, seems to be basically a nothing.

            Of course Turnbull create chaos in the Liberals, that was his task.

            Wait until we see the total chaos Shorten creates..

            … might even exceed the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd years in destructive lunacy. !.

            94

          • #
            el gordo

            Phil the Coalition has to move back to the centre right before Easter, by drawing a clear distinction between Shorten’s renewables and Morrison’s new coal fired power stations.

            A dynamic paradigm shift.

            62

      • #
        robert rosicka

        Curious to know Philpot and CT if you know all the policy’s of your Green masters , given your interactions here I’m positive you aware but how exactly do you defend green policy and not die of shame defending their weird and sick animal husbandry policy ?

        Or is that self explanatory! Each to his own as long as it’s consensual hey !

        45

      • #
        yarpos

        how progresive, In a group that doesnt think like me? you must have had a lobotomy. How diverse and inclusive, and how very selective.

        41

        • #
          el gordo

          Andy and yarpos is this statement true or false?

          ‘Reef scientist Terry Hughes, from the coral centre of excellence at James Cook University, said the summer heatwave was “terrifying” and lifted the chances of coral death on the Great Barrier Reef early next year.’

          Guardian

          31

          • #
            AndyG55

            What heat wave?

            Certainly not around the coast of NSW.

            Only a couple of “warmer than usual” days, which is unusual for NSW summer.

            Anyway, the last major bleaching was caused by the El Nino dropping the sea level and exposing the coral more than it was used to.

            75

          • #
            yarpos

            not sure about true or false but its meaningless.

            firstly “terrifying” what, in a world where people are afraid of CAPITAL letters and clapping?

            “chances of coral death….” There is always some coral death for various reason. An increased chance? sometime in the future? cant go wrong really, at some stage there will be coral death some time in the future. Causes can be allocated to suit the grant requirements of the day.

            I assume he is talking about the 40C + temps sweeping QLD now. The reef has been there for millenia, I seriously doubt this is unprecedented for the reef, even if it is for us humans that have only been keeping records for a couple hundred years.

            50

          • #
            el gordo

            Thanks, I found this in the Brisbane Times and Hannam mentions El Nino but nothing about sea level fall. Big mistake. At the moment SST is only one degree above the norm.

            ‘Also potentially reducing the risk of another mass bleaching was the prospect the 2015-16 and 2016-17 bouts had killed off the more sensitive corals, leaving hardier survivors, Dr Wachenfeld said.

            ‘In the past, corals were likely to bleach if they endured four degree-heating weeks, and start to die after eight. Such a gauge – based on the equivalent of one week of one degree of above-average conditions – is an indication of the heat stress on corals that prompt them to expel algae that provide them most of their energy and colour.’

            00

      • #
        glen Michel

        how many have you had geek? Quips like that tell me you have muck for brains.

        21

        • #
          yarpos

          It would be nice to have some high quality , thought through contrary views from the other side. However its usually just the snide remarks based on superficial knowledge. Thats probably overstating it. Based on superficial information, actual knowledge never seems to come into it.

          21

    • #
      Jeff

      Maybe by referral only or elitist IDK ?

      They put a post “Introducing the Saltbush Club” on their website

      https://saltbushclub.com/2018/11/14/introducing-the-saltbush-club/

      Lots of people commented below “how do I join”

      But they were never answered.

      30

    • #
      Jeff

      Correction their is now a join page on their website

      https://saltbushclub.com/join/

      As el gordo says it this email

      forbes@saltbushclub.com

      31

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Er…..why wasnt it claimed? Would it puncture the baloon?

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-28/owner-of-elon-musks-big-sa-battery-escapes-taxpayer-fine/10560386

    “Tesla boss Elon Musk famously delivered on a promise to build it within 100 days or do it for free, but a new report has revealed the owner of South Australia’s giant battery escaped a government fine for missing a key testing deadline.

    Key points:

    * Tesla battery owner, Hornsdale Power Reserve, missed a reliability test deadline
    * The former state government chose not to pursue the company for compensation
    * A new report has found the battery only passed the tests in January this year

    The 100-megawatt lithium-ion Tesla battery, the most powerful of its kind in the world, has been operating alongside French company Neoen’s Hornsdale Wind Farm near Jamestown in South Australia’s north since the beginning of last summer.

    The battery was a key element of the former Weatherill government’s $550 million energy plan, aimed at reducing energy costs and preventing load-shedding blackouts.
    Changing the power landscape

    The results are in: Tesla’s giant battery is responding faster and more precisely than traditional coal and gas generators to stabilise the national energy grid.

    After responding to a challenge from Australian tech-billionaire Mike Cannon-Brookes on Twitter, the Tesla boss partnered with Neoen to build the battery within 100 days, beating more than 70 competing bids in a government procurement process.

    A new report by South Australia’s Auditor-General, tabled in State Parliament on Tuesday, found the former government decided not to pursue a claim of liquidated damages against the battery’s owner, Hornsdale Power Reserve (HPR), for failing to meet a deadline for demonstrating the battery’s reliability.”

    60

    • #

      Please, do not ever believe this: (my bolding here)

      The results are in: Tesla’s giant battery is responding faster and more precisely than traditional coal and gas generators to stabilise the national energy grid.

      The average hourly generation for the Australian grid is 23500MW.

      If a 100MW battery can stabilise the grid, then some people will believe anything. The grid, as stable as it can be at an average of 23500MW, can handle the loss of one of those huge Units in seconds, and do it without anyone even noticing.

      This battery is in South Australia, so here you need an overall ‘idea’ of the whole Australian grid. The power plants are spread across the Country, and supply the areas where they are located. The huge Units (coal fired) can supply over long distances, eg Bayswater near Musswellbrook can supply for Sydney, considering it is around 2600MW, and similar for other large Units in other States. To say that coal fired power in Queensland is helping out anywhere south of Northern NSW is erroneous, and the same applies for hydro power in Tasmania, and it can only help out into Southern Victoria. Each State supplies its own State, and a small area maybe into an adjoining State.

      100MW from this battery will deliver for South Australia only, so if a Unit fails in the three main States this battery will have zero effect, because that 100MW can only go so far before it is consumed in areas along the way of that SouthAus grid.

      South Australia regularly gets power from Victoria via the Interconnector, and that is in the main, coal fired power via the units in Victoria, Both plants at Loy Yang, and the plant at Yallourn W.

      Now, if one of those Victorian Units fails, then the first thing to cease is ‘some’ of that power delivery into SouthAus via the Interconnector. So the battery might ‘seem’ to cover for that loss, for perhaps a minute at the most, mainly in just seconds really, and the grid can handle the loss of one of those large Units without the assistance of any battery.

      Because, the very second that Unit in Victoria fails, two things happen, (inside Victoria) and the first of those is that a hydro Unit spins up, and here, first port of call is Tumut Three, in the Snowys, the eight pumped hydro Units, and if ONE unit inside Victoria drops off line, then one, and sometimes two of those Tumut Three units comes on line. That pumped hydro Unit can be delivering its power into the Victorian Grid within 90 seconds, usually less than that. The second thing that happens is, (also in Victoria, because it is the Interconnector that has lowered power delivery) one or two natural gas fired Units also come on line, and that takes typically three minutes tops to deliver its power into the Victorian grid.

      Now, as that natural gas Unit takes over, one of the pumped hydro Units at Tumut Three drops back off line, and when the situation stabilises, within fifteen minutes tops, sometimes actually up to half an hour, but never longer than an hour, then the other Tumut Three pumped hydro Unit goes back off line.

      Those pumped hydro Units act immediately to augment the drop in the Interconnector, and the natural gas Unit or units takes over.

      All of this happens in minutes.

      So, that battery is the absolute tiniest part of all this, and in reality, would barely cover for a failure in one of the NG plants in SouthAus itself. It has zero effect outside of that State.

      I’ve been watching the grid now for more than 18 Months on this exact situation, when one of those large coal fired Units fails, and what I have described above is exactly what does happen.

      The battery is a ‘nothing’ solution to a problem that is, and has been handled perfectly well by the grid operators for many years now.

      The grid is so finely tuned virtually on a minute to minute basis, and in times of a failure on a second to second basis.

      To say that this battery has any effect at all is patently false.

      Tony.

      351

      • #
        Chad

        Tony, almost any fool can see that the only 2 things the Big Battery is doing are..
        1). Providing local FCAS support to the SA grid which has huge fluctuations in generating capacity and must be a nightmare for controlers to keep stable.
        2). It plays the power pricing auction system to discharge in high price periods, and recharge in low cost periods…..its “harvesting” the cost differentials.

        Its capacity contribution (MWh) is very hard to notice even on the relatively low SA demand .

        150

      • #
        Peter C

        I was speaking to an electrical engineer last week. He said that he used to be on the team that had to manage the grid.

        He liked the Tesla battery, for covering very short period deficits in the supply. He said that used to be done by Hydro but the battery is quicker and easier.

        Of course, short period deficits have become more common because of solar and wind.

        80

        • #
          Chad

          Sorry Peter, but it is very clear that the battery does not,..and cannot, do anything for supply shortages.
          It has only ever discharged a maximum of 30 MW for a few minuites, which is totally insignificant in SA’s 1500MW + demand

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          • #
            Peter C

            Yes,

            But I think he was talking about just the short periods required to fire up gas or coal power stations, or even diesel, and then only for a small part of the total demand.

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        theRealUniverse

        Tony, its its a pity that the politicians dont believe someone like yourself who really knows what hes talking about , instead of idiot ‘consultants’ with agendas.

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      • #

        “Here’s One I prepared earlier.”

        I knew I had something I could show you all, and the link is below.

        This was back in July, when one of the big Units at Eraring failed, and it shows exactly the sequence I mentioned above.

        It’s from my daily electrical data Posts and explains the process, with the actual diagrams of the Units involved. It’s down in the text for this day, and while those diagrams are shown small to fit the page, click on those diagrams and it shows the better detail of how the situation was handled.

        Australian Daily Electrical Power Generation Data – Friday 13th July 2018

        Tony.

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      Jeff

      “The report revealed the battery will cost taxpayers $41.8 million over the next decade, but only $15 million of that money was accounted for in the government’s $550-million energy plan.
      In return for that money, the South Australian Government has access to 70 per cent of the battery’s 100-megawatt output, and a small fraction — 10-megawatt hours — of the battery’s 129-megawatt hours of storage.”

      $41.8M / 10 MWh = $4,180 per kWh

      That seems expensive, I thought you could by a 10kWh for less than $4,000

      30

  • #
    pat

    28 Nov: ABC: Owner of Elon Musk’s big SA battery escaped taxpayer fine for missing key deadline
    By Nick Harmsen
    A new report by South Australia’s Auditor-General, tabled in State Parliament on Tuesday, found the former government decided not to pursue a claim of liquidated damages against the battery’s owner, Hornsdale Power Reserve (HPR), for failing to meet a deadline for demonstrating the battery’s reliability.
    To pass the reliability tests, HPR needed to demonstrate reliable commercial operation of the battery for at least 28 consecutive days without interruption.
    The government contract provided it the right to claim liquidated damages from HPR if that was not achieved by December 1, 2017.

    Auditor-General Andrew Richardson found the battery only passed the reliability tests on January 20 this year.
    Days after the milestone was reached, the former government issued the battery owner a notice to claim damages, but did not take further action.
    “The SA government received legal advice on this matter and decided not to pursue delay liquidated damages from HPR,” Mr Richardson wrote.
    “We were advised by DEM (the Department of Energy and Mining) that this was because of external advice that the cost of this action could exceed the value of the delay liquidated damages, and to maintain a good working relationship with HPR.
    “DEM further advised that the delayed performance validation only impacted HPR’s market capacity and did not impact the ability of the battery to deliver services from the state’s reserved capacity.”

    Does the battery provide value for money?
    The report revealed the battery will cost taxpayers $41.8 million over the next decade, but only $15 million of that money was accounted for in the government’s $550-million energy plan.
    In return for that money, the South Australian Government has access to 70 per cent of the battery’s 100-megawatt output, and a small fraction — 10-megawatt hours — of the battery’s 129-megawatt hours of storage.

    That’s enough power to help prevent a load-shedding blackout, and to provide stabilisation services to the grid.
    HPR has the rights to the remainder of the battery’s storage and output to sell into the electricity market.
    The Auditor-General said his department did not assess whether the battery had provided value for taxpayers’ money.

    “The criteria for assessing what represents value for money, particularly in the complex and rapidly changing energy market, is highly subjective and difficult to objectively measure,” he wrote.
    “We have not performed any market analysis to determine if introducing battery storage has impacted on electricity prices and prices passed on to the end customer.
    “We did not review the operational effectiveness of the battery.”

    Mr Richardson said he had been unable to assess whether the decision-making process to offer public funds to build the battery had been properly assessed…

    “In less than nine months (and only five months after awarding the contract) the battery was operational, delivering power to the National Electricity Market (NEM) and providing system security services to South Australia,” officials wrote.
    “This was an incredible achievement and could not have been realised without the hard work of many dedicated public servants, who have since won procurement and energy industry awards in recognition of their efforts.”
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-28/owner-of-elon-musks-big-sa-battery-escapes-taxpayer-fine/10560386

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    pat

    28 Nov: ABC: Sydney weather live coverage, flash flooding sparks chaos on roads
    Roads are underwater, two of the airport’s runways are closed, the power is out in some areas and trains, ferries and light rail services have been affected.
    This is everything you need to know about Sydney’s wild weather today…
    So far:
    •The SES has responded to over 634 calls for help and 13 flood rescues
    •Sydney Obersvatory Hill has recorded 106mm
    •BOM say it is the wettest November day in 34 years
    •Two police officers were injured while helping motorists on a flooded road in North Ryde
    •Two of Sydney Airport’s three runways are closed

    Kevin Nguyen 15 minutes ago
    (Updated: 1 minute ago)
    ‘Phenomenal’: Wettest November day in 34 years, says BOM
    In case you haven’t appreciated the scale of the storms, meteorologists have described this as a one in a 100 year event. Rob Taggart from BOM says:
    “That makes it the wettest November day since 1984 and also the wettest day since April 22, 2015. The intensity of that rainfall was phenomenal. 91mm fell in 90 minutes, that’s basically the equivalent of a one in 100 year event.”
    BOM say there is a “bit of a lull” in the rainfall, but conditions would intensify over parts of Sydney later this morning and into the afternoon. They said they have recorded gusts of 72km/h in Sydney and an average wind speed of 70km/h along the coast, capping at about 90km/h…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-28/sydney-weather-live-coverage-of-floods-and-rain/10459224

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    • #
      Greebo

      Hmm… now where did I read that it was the wettest day in Sydney’s history?? Seems “history” began in April, 2015.

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    Rob Leviston

    Two things caught my attention in the news today.
    In Victoria, Ausnet are intending offering $15 payments to (up to) 1000 customers who register and promise to reduce their power usage on very hot days!
    A quickie in head calc, gives me maybe, a power ‘saving’ of 1 to 2 MW of power. ( working on 1 to 2 Kw of saving per household, multiplied by 1000)
    The second thing that caught my attention, was the 20? or so whales that beached themselves on an isolated Gippsland beach.
    The question was asked. Why? Because, climate change! Whodathunkit!

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    • #
      Another Ian

      Rob

      “Because, climate change! Whodathunkit!”
      brings to mind Numberwatch and the list there.

      A couple of threads ago someone asked what was going on with that site.

      Seems the site isn’t responding but you can still get to it via the Wayback Machine

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    pat

    ***why not list the EU28 individually, ABC?

    28 Nov: ABC: Australia not on track to hit Paris emissions goals, as UN warns global efforts must increase
    ABC Science By environment reporter Nick Kilvert
    Australia is listed as a G20 country that will not meet its 2030 target — alongside Canada, Argentina, ***EU28, the Republic of Korea, Saudi Arabia, South Africa and the United States…

    Under the 2030 target scenario, annual global emissions are predicted to increase from their current 53.5 gigatonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent, to 56 gigatonnes over the next 12 years.
    But to be on track to keep warming below 2C, UN Environment estimates that emissions need to be down to about 40 gigatonnes per annum by that time.
    And to limit warming to 1.5C, global annual emissions would need to be reduced to 24 gigatonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent per annum by 2030…

    Australia’s solar a standout among poor performers…
    However, the steady rise in our population continues to push our overall emissions up…
    Behind energy, Australia’s next biggest emitting sectors are transport, agriculture and fugitive emissions from coal seam gas and other mining.
    Combined with increased land clearing, it’s these areas where there is the greatest room for emissions reduction, according to (Curtin Uni professor Peter) Newman…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2018-11-28/climate-un-environment-report-australia-not-on-track-paris/10554058

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    • #
      el gordo

      ‘Australia’s next biggest emitting sectors are transport, agriculture …’

      In the streets of Paris we see a traditional revolt against insanity of that kind.

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      • #
        robert rosicka

        Heard second hand this morning that Labor are planning a meat tax but can’t find it anywhere as yet to confirm .

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        • #
          el gordo

          Its called social engineering, a draconian food and beverage tax will have a dramatic impact on obesity.

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        • #
          James

          How about an NBT (national breathing tax) to cut emissions? Or perhaps a National Bedroom Tax. If we cut down on people sleeping together, then less reproduction, and then fewer people coming into the world to breath!

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    • #
      theRealUniverse

      “Under the 2030 target scenario, annual global emissions are predicted to increase from their current 53.5 gigatonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent, to 56 gigatonnes”
      These numbers are totally ridiculous, lets get REAL numbers here…
      2.5Gt increase, ok thats 2.5 x 10^9 tonnes. Alot? ok then Atmospheric mass = 5.1480×10^18kg, thats 5.1480×10^15 tonnes! 1 tonne = 1000kg. Mass of CO2 by weight 2.996×10^12 tonnes.
      Thats 3000 Gt!.
      2.5 x10^9/5.2 x 10^18 = 1.8 x 10^-10!
      Thats rough increase of 1 molecule in 10 000 000 000.
      Clearly that is absurd to sugest that would change the climate in any way.
      Those numbers are put to ‘scare’ peole to believe seeing such large numbers as GIGATONNES that they are doing something bad to the climate. Total science baloney.
      Even the total 55 Gt is only 1 in 1000 000 000. CO2 concentrations ‘natural’ are about 1 molecule of CO2 to approx 3000, other gasses.
      If I got a magnitude wrong apologies scare me off..You get the idea..

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      • #
        Chad

        Im always puzzeled at how much the “known” amount of CO2 man is alleged to add to the atmosphere each year.
        .it is variously quoted between 29 billion tonnes and now this 53.5 billion tonnes ?
        Thats an 80+% range .
        You would think with all the “science” being spouted,..they might at least get this basic fact agreed.

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        • #
          robert rosicka

          Sorry Chad fat thumb hit the red .

          I prefer to look at Co2 in percentages , it makes a mockery of the scam because the numbers are so low .

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  • #
    Brian the Engineer

    The SA battery has little to do with the neighboring wind farm.
    It acts as a UPS for the diesel generators that were installed at the same time. They take 5 minutes to power up and the battery provides 8 minutes of cover.

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  • #
    pat

    27 Nov: France24: ‘End of the world’ vs. ‘end of the month’: Macron walks tightrope amid fuel tax protests
    Emmanuel Macron’s highly anticipated speech on transitioning his country’s energy mix was always going to be a delicate balancing act. But in striking a conciliatory tone, the French president hardly appears to have enchanted anyone.

    The French leader is walking a tightrope between keeping his showy pledge to “Make Our Planet Great Again”, making good on his country’s Paris Climate Agreement leadership, and calming the self-styled “Yellow Vests”, an amorphous movement that argues that Macron’s eco-minded fuel-tax hikes punish working-class consumers outside urban centres first and foremost.

    In an hour-long speech short on detail but long on expressions of compassion, Macron returned again and again to the grievances expressed on roundabouts across the country, telling the “Yellow Vest” protesters (or the peaceful ones, at least): “I have heard your anger.” The French president declined to back down on the disputed fuel-tax hikes, but vowed to adapt a tax that, he conceded, is “a bit blind” to market price fluctuations in order to limit the impact on heavy drivers with little choice…

    The transition to more environmentally friendly resources has to happen, he said, not least for France’s own sovereignty in the face of fossil fuel providers like Russia, Saudi Arabia and Iran. But, Macron said, “This transition should not happen at any cost.”…

    He pledged to put €7 to €8 billion towards supporting renewable energies every year, up from the current €5 billion budget.
    Macron also invited “representatives of the Yellow Vests” to propose solutions themselves during local consultations on the transition to cleaner energy over the next three months…

    Macron announced that France would reduce the share of nuclear in its power production from 75 percent to 50 percent by 2035 – not 2025, the initial target that Macron stressed was unrealistic. He said 14 of the reactors would be closed by 2035, including four to six before 2030, in an apparent compromise between the targets favoured by the French environment and economy ministers respectively. Only two reactors are slated for previously announced shutdowns during Macron’s current term of office. He left any decision on whether France would seek to build new, next-generation EPR reactors until at least 2021.

    Macron called his nuclear plan “a pragmatic approach… that takes into account the security of supply”, saying France shouldn’t shut down plants only to have to import power from other countries with production less clean than can be produced domestically.
    And he touted nuclear’s ostensible advantages. “Nuclear allows us to benefit from energy that is pared of carbon emissions and is low cost,” Macron said. The president forbade EDF, the French electrical utility, from shutting any nuclear sites outright, saying his responsibility was to reduce, not end, France’s reliance on nuclear. Economic and social consequences for locals in the vicinity of the reactors poised to close should be limited, he said…

    “The closure of the nuclear plants postponed for a month of Sundays, lies about the supposed advantages of that dangerous energy, stubbornness over the industrial and financial catastrophe that is the EPR reactor. Macron proves his total submission to the nuclear lobby,” far-left leader Jean-Luc Mélenchon charged after the speech…

    (QUOTES FROM CAGW GROUPS, INCL GREENPEACE)

    It remains to be seen how the Yellow Vests themselves will react to Macron’s purported empathy for their cause…

    “There are going to be consultations, with what? With whom? Yellow Vests who are elected by who? I didn’t vote for them, I don’t know them,” Amaury, a 46-year-old jobseeker building a protest base camp in the middle of a Breton roundabout, told Agence France-Presse on Tuesday. “I didn’t even listen to Macron. I don’t want to hear him. I don’t trust him anymore. He need only come here, out in the field.”faure-greenpeace
    https://www.france24.com/en/20181127-france-climate-yellow-vests-macron-fuel-tax-protests-nuclear-melenchon-pen-faure

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  • #
    pat

    27 Nov: Korea Times editorial: Taiwan’s case should be a lesson for South Korea
    President Moon Jae-in’s policy to phase out nuclear energy is triggering controversy once again following Taiwan’s referendum last week that voted in favor of nuclear power, rejecting President Tsai Ing-wen’s strong push since taking office in 2016 to phase out nuclear energy by 2025.

    The Moon administration has looked to Taiwan as a benchmark in carrying out the nuclear-phase out policy. So the result of Taiwan’s referendum has prompted opposition parties to call for a reconsideration of Moon’s anti-nuclear push. There are 24 nuclear power plants in Korea and five new plants are in the pipeline. The Moon administration has called for phasing out the nuclear power plants by 2082 and increase the use of renewable energy.

    The Ministry of Trade, Industry and Energy said that Taiwan’s referendum will not have any impact on the government’s energy transition policy, and that Taiwan’s situation is different from ours. The ministry pointed out that a massive blackout last summer has increased the Taiwanese voters’ concern about a stable power supply and this affected the referendum. However, it is necessary for the government to look closely at the Taiwanese case and reconsider its swift push to go nuclear-free for several reasons…

    A recent survey by Gallup showed a strong public discontent over Moon’s anti-nuclear energy policy. According to the survey, 68 percent were in favor of maintaining nuclear power, while 28.5 percent wanted a reduction of nuclear plants. It would be a good idea to carry out a referendum since it is an issue that will have a tremendous impact on Korea’s economy and people’s lives. Some opposition lawmakers are also calling for a referendum.
    Second, it does not make much sense that the President is talking about phasing out nuclear energy when he is trying to sell Korea’s nuclear power technology abroad…
    It is expected that he will meet with Czech Prime Minister Andrej Babis (at G20) and seek the country’s support for Korean companies’ bid to take part in the construction of nuclear power plants pushed by the Czech government. Moon will explain the strengths of Korean companies in this regard…

    Many people still believe that without nuclear energy, maintaining a stable power supply will be difficult. The Moon administration should consider the people’s concerns and reflect them in its basic energy policy which will be announced early next year…
    http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/opinon/2018/11/202_259432.html

    27 Nov: UK Times: Small is beautiful no more as energy suppliers crash
    by Emily Gosden
    Only six years ago, more than 98 per cent of households bought their energy from one of Britain’s Big Six suppliers and only a handful of small companies were vying to break their dominance. Today, the market has changed almost beyond recognition. More than 70 small suppliers have seized a quarter of the market.
    Yet despite the encouragement of politicians and regulators keen to promote competition, those small companies have started dropping like flies. Six household suppliers have gone bust this year…

    Several are known to be struggling to meet payments and are believed to be on the brink; others have woeful customer service ratings that often have proved to be an indicator of a supplier in distress. At the same time, anger is growing over the rising bill faced by rival suppliers and their customers, who are forced to pick up the costs when a company fails…
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/970bb65c-f1b9-11e8-8c84-29b2667b0b46

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  • #
    pat

    devil is in the detail:

    27 Nov: Bloomberg: Clean Power Sees First Win Over Fossil Fuels in Emerging Markets
    Developing countries have added more clean power capacity than fossil fuel generation for the first time ever, charging ahead of wealthier nations in the global green energy push, according to Bloomberg NEF.
    Wind and solar generation accounted for just over half of the 186 gigawatts of new power capacity in developing nations last year, according to BNEF’s annual Climatescope survey (LINK) released Tuesday. Not only that, they’ve added more clean energy generation than developed economies, increasing zero-carbon capacity by 114 gigawatts compared with about 63 gigawatts in richer countries…

    Many developing countries have an abundance of natural resources and lower equipment costs, allowing new renewable projects to become cheaper than fossil plants, according to the report.
    “Just a few years ago, some argued that less developed nations could not, or even should not, expand power generation with zero-carbon sources because these were too expensive,” Dario Traum, BNEF Climatescope project manager said in a statement. “Today, these countries are leading the charge when it comes to deployment, investment, policy innovation and cost reductions.”…

    Emerging markets added the least new coal-fired power generating capacity last year since at least 2006. New coal plants in these countries slumped 38 percent from a year earlier to 48 gigawatts in 2017, which was about half of the peak in 2015, according to BNEF…

    For the Climatescope survey, BNEF conducts country-by-country assessments of clean-energy market conditions and scores each nation, with more points awarded for investments and policy reforms that support clean energy and countries’ openness to international investors over the availability of local manufacturing. The survey included 103 nations, up from 71 in the previous report…

    Other findings include:
    New clean energy additions rose 20 percent in developing nations from 2016, while slipping in richer countries by 0.4 percent.
    New financing for clean-energy technologies in emerging markets remained roughly flat at $143 billion since dropping from a record of $178 billion in 2015, even as prices of the technologies continued to fall.
    Actual generation from coal-fired plants gained 4 percent in developing countries to 6.4 terawatt-hours.193 gigawatts of coal are under construction in developing economies, with 86 percent of this capacity planned in China, India, Indonesia and South Africa, the report said, citing Coalswarm data…
    https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/clean-power-sees-first-win-over-fossil-fuels-in-emerging-markets

    PDF: 66 pages: Emerging Markets Outlook 2018 – Climatescope
    Energy transition in the world’s fastest growing economies
    global-climatescope.org/assets/data/reports/climatescope-2018-report-en.pdf

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    • #
      Chad

      push, according to Bloomberg NEF.
      Wind and solar generation accounted for just over half of the 186 gigawatts of new power capacity in developing nations last year, according to BNEF’s annual Climatescope survey (LINK) released Tuesday……..

      That is “power” ..nameplate maximum rating… Not real generating capacity in GWh
      ….a very big difference,
      ..and a very misleading figure for anyone to quote
      IE…FAKE NEWS !

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    pat

    well worth a read (undated but seems to be 27 Nov according to google results):

    The Fourth National Climate Assessment violates scientific integrity
    by Edwin Berry, Ph.D., Physics
    https://edberry.com/blog/climate-politics/climate-deception/the-fourth-national-climate-assessment-violates-scientific-integrity/?__s=smszxmnugse6m3wapub8

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    • #
      PeterS

      Won’t make an iota of difference. The left are in control in both major parties. Either we crash and burn first or voters wake up and stop voting for either major party forthwith to send all of them a message loud and clear. My bet is we will keep bouncing between both major parties until we crash and burn.

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      • #
        el gordo

        There has been talk that energy and climate change is tearing the Coalition apart, which is true, but the incumbent can still snatch victory from the jaws of defeat by pulling out of Paris and seek tenders for new Hele.

        With all this going on I was surprised to see Cory talking about his love of guns, pretty pathetic.

        15

        • #
          robert rosicka

          Seen Cory on Credlin and he was singing from the coal songsheet as he always has .

          52

          • #
            robert rosicka

            Only time I’ve heard Bernardi say anything else was when he made the case for Nuclear, but he wholeheartedly heartedly and unashamedly supports coal fired power .

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            • #
              el gordo

              Nuclear is a sop for the Green vote. Cory is casting too wide a net and this is clearly visible on ‘Common Sense’, so he should simply focus on energy and immigration.

              02

              • #
                robert rosicka

                Greens don’t want nuclear, Bernardi wants coal but plays devils advocate by insisting that if the green argument on emissions was serious or factual then nuclear should be the preferred option .
                In that context he is 100% right .

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              • #
                el gordo

                Building a nuclear plant would be more expensive than a Hele, so its not a serious option and he should drop it. Cory is acutely aware that he could be wiped out at the election and is hedging his bets in the face of a green left landslide.

                01

              • #
                sophocles

                el gordo alleged

                Building a nuclear plant would be more expensive than a Hele,

                Would be if the old fashioned obsolete high pressure water cooled reactors are used. Might not be for a molten salt reactor. Trouble is, we have no idea yet what those will cost …

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        • #
          Rollo

          Sadly, I think you’re dreaming el gordo. More than half the population are fully or partially welfare dependant and will only vote labor/green. Most young people coming out of schools and universities believe in lefty causes such as climate change, gender fluidity, becoming a republic, open borders, aboriginal apartheid, changing the flag, anthem whatever and none of these people are going to vote liberal.
          It’s time to accept the fact that it’s only rusted on old conservatives like us who want to build HELE plants and tell the UN where to shove their various agendas. The Victorian state election illustrates the advance of the socialist left and a Shorten federal government will follow as surely as night follows day.
          The liberal party is split down the middle into progressive (labor-lite) and conservative factions, with the conservatives losing every battle.

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          • #
            el gordo

            ‘More than half the population are fully or partially welfare dependant …’

            That is not true.

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            • #
              Graeme#4

              Perhaps not 50%, but I seem to recall some data fromThe Oz that suggested only 20% of adults actually paid tax. Excluded were everybody being paid by federal, state and local govts, and of course the unemployed.

              01

        • #
          PeterS

          el gordo, the point is the LNP is being destroyed from within by the left. It’s imploding. Only one thing Morrison can do to salvage the furniture so to speak – sack all leftists. They go rid of Turnbull for that very reason so they should not stop there but instead continue down the ranks. Won’t happen of course because Morrison is too weak. The next best thing is after the election when they are licking their wounds they have to decide whether they want to continue being schizophrenic or finally decide to be left or right of centre. They can’t have it both ways without making the split worse to the point of killing the party. People are sick and tired of the LNP acting like a headless chook. It can’t go on for long.

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          • #
            el gordo

            ‘Morrison is too weak.’

            He intends keeping his powder dry until the budget in April, tenders for new coal fired power stations and a continental bullet train network should unite the Party behind him.

            24

            • #
              PeterS

              Perhaps but he’s leaving it far too late. If he really was convinced that CAGW is a whole lot of crap, which of course it is, he would be pulling out all stops to get the message through to the public the minute he became PM. Leaving it to the last minute is not only a sign of weakness but also a display of a lack of real conviction.

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              • #
                el gordo

                Dutton would have done it and if Morrison fails to spark before the election then he can be classified as weak and ignorant, I’ll give him until Easter.

                11

    • #
      RickWill

      As far as I can determine, Ed Berry is not even a recognised denier:
      https://www.desmogblog.com/global-warming-denier-database
      I fear there needs to be a serious catastrophe before science trumps religion.

      Education in Victoria has been reduced to political propaganda. It is like the economics I was taught 40 years ago – no basis in fact. Apparently 5% of teachers working in Victoria fail basic maths tests:
      https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/new-teachers-fail-to-meet-literacy-and-numeracy-test-before-entering-classrooms-20170130-gu1nn6.html
      How will these people encourage enquiring minds when they have failed to enquire and understand for themselves.

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      • #
        theRealUniverse

        “How will these people encourage enquiring minds when they have failed to enquire and understand for themselves.”
        It seems to be the way of education/educators (disinformation agents in certain fields) in the 20 teens.

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      • #
        Rob Leviston

        Ah! Teachers don’t really teach these days, do they? They have set curriculum to disperse among their students. The blind, leading the blind, and singing from the same monotonous hymn book!

        20

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      I read that..

      “A man in a suit walked up to the lectern. He told us:

      Global warming is a new national problem. Human CO2 emissions cause dangerous global warming. Future research funding will focus on predicting climate disasters.

      The room was silent. I raised my hand, “How can you support your global warming hypothesis when you omit cloud cover which affects heat balance more than carbon dioxide?

      He answered, “I know more about the atmosphere than you people do.”

      I responded, “How do you know more than the atmospheric scientists in this room?”

      He said, “I know more about the climate because I am a lawyer for the EPA.”

      Science Fascism.
      Clearly he (I am a lawyer for the EPA) was part of the global agenda.

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  • #
    RickWill

    Found this last week. It may have been shown here before:
    http://www.meteoearth.com
    Really neat view of weather around the globe, including 24 hour forecast.

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  • #
    Robber

    Emissions target set to devastate agriculture and transport sectors by Ron Boswell. “Australia is slouching towards an economic shock of historic proportions. In 2005, Australia generated 597 million tonnes of CO2 emissions. The Coalition government has committed to reduce this annual carbon footprint by 26 per cent to 442 million tonnes by 2030. Labor has pledged a 45 per cent reduction to 328 million tonnes. In other words, the difference between the two parties’ climate targets is substantial, 114 million tonnes annually by 2030. To put that into context, the difference between the two parties’ targets is equivalent to the emissions from the entire red meat, dairy, trucking, domestic aviation, rail and bus sectors combined”.
    Let’s start the devastation under Labor by building the entire electricity grid like South Australia, as we keep getting told that wind and solar are so cheap. Average electricity demand in SA is about 1400 MW, with a peak evening demand of about 2000 MW. To meet that demand, SA now has 1900 MW of wind capacity. On average those wind generators deliver 600 MW, but on occasions they deliver close to zero. SA “bravely” shut down their Northern coal-fired generator (500 MW) in 2016, so now they rely on over 2500 MW of gas generators, 270 MW of emergency diesel generators, and of course a long power cord from Victoria. Note that despite investing over $ 3 billion in wind farms, they must still maintain investments in gas and diesel generators to reliably meet 100% of peak demand.
    Is that a wasted investment of $3 billion in wind (and even more in solar)? In 2016 the wholesale electricity price in SA was $62/MWhr, this year it is $93/MWhr. In addition to that revenue, those wind generators get to sell certificates to retailers for about $80/MWhr that is added to retail electricity prices, giving SA among the highest retail prices in the world. And other states want to follow SA?

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    • #
      Kinky Keith

      Devastating.

      Politics is in a truly Evil place at the moment.

      At its heart the issue can be seen as the corruption of Government at all levels.

      Government focus is now on “skimming”, whether by jobs for the boys or forcing the reliable electricity generators to “subsidise” the new Token Generators or sending hundreds of millions to the ClintUNs.
      There is a rumour that our former President Mal has new plates for his merc; GBR 444.

      Why are governments intent on discouraging farmers and heavy industry and anyone else who puts it on the line in hope of a better future.

      The political buzz word last year was “innovative” but in the present any sort of innovation or effort is being kicked to death.

      KK

      30

    • #
      RickWill

      Other states cannot follow SA. Their certificates are predominantly purchased by retailers in other states and the costs passed on to consumers in other states. Other states cannot do the same thing because that is a once-off benefit that the intermittents in SA have enjoyed. Once the generating capacity in other states increases, the intermittents in SA will be increasingly curtailed so their economics will deteriorate.

      40

      • #
        yarpos

        Interesting game of pass the parcel isnt it?

        There is going to be stage where NSW is selling expensive certs to QLD to help drive up the cost of the coal fired power that holds up Northern NSW.

        Its going to be intersting when the music looks like stopping. There are bound to be other creative accounting tricks to prop the whole mess up.

        30

    • #
      Mark D.

      You in AU are truly the Petri dish for all that is coming in in the Green Climate Laboratory. God bless.

      10

  • #
    greggg

    Now that the socialist government has been returned to power in Victoria and will stuff up electricity generation more, it is time for the South Australian government to push for a conventional gas well or two near the Victorian border with CCGT plant built next to them. If the company that owns the well, owns the generator, they will be able to produce electricity cheaply and sell it to Victoria. The federal government needs to place gas on level footing with renewables though – retailers should be able to buy electricity from gas generation instead of from wind farms. With gas producing around the same emissions as wind farms backed up by gas, there is no good excuse for not doing so.

    42

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    More classy ( not ) left wing behaviour on display….

    Watching the greens behaviour reminds me of whining and unpleasant, sneering teenagers, with turned up noses and narrowed eyes….

    tsk tsk….

    How does anyone take them seriously….?

    20

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Sorry…heres the link….

      https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-28/senators-walk-out-as-greens-leader-calls-out-sexist-behaviour/10561496

      “Greens leader Richard Di Natale has slammed conservative crossbench and Government senators, prompting three of them to walk out of the Senate when he said their behaviour was repeatedly “offensive and harmful”.

      Key points:

      * Richard Di Natale continues his criticism of Barry O’Sullivan in the Senate
      * Senator O’Sullivan, David Leyonhjelm and Fraser Anning walk out during his speech

      It comes after Senator Di Natale called Senator O’Sullivan a “pig” while defending Sarah Hanson-Young

      His comments came as Senate leaders from across the political spectrum told the Parliament the standard of behaviour needed to improve.

      Just a day earlier, Senator Di Natale was suspended from the Senate for refusing to withdraw comments he made while defending his Greens colleague, Sarah Hanson-Young.

      20

  • #
    beowulf

    To all the Greenies out there who think locking up the forests saves them:
    NYT shoots itself in both feet, proves Trump right.

    http://catallaxyfiles.com/2018/11/27/pro-trump-and-anti-green-all-at-the-same-time/#comments

    Ha bloody ha.

    31

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Oh dear…..awkward….

    https://www.canberratimes.com.au/politics/act/dick-smith-slams-act-renewable-energy-target-in-scott-morrison-skit-20181127-p50io0.html

    “Dick Smith has slammed the ACT’s renewable energy target as a “lie” in a new video in which he impersonates Prime Minister Scott Morrison – complete with his own lump of coal – and declares no energy will ever be as cheap as fossil fuels.

    The ACT government reports it is on track to become 100 per cent renewable by 2020 but, speaking to The Canberra Times on Tuesday, Mr Smith accused the territory of deliberately hoodwinking the public into believing all their power would soon be coming from solar and wind.

    Given the ACT has no plans for large-scale battery storage, it will continue to rely on the national grid, which is still largely powered by fossil fuels, he said.

    “It’s just completely dishonest, for a government to be part of a lie like that, it’s tokenism,” the millionaire businessman said.

    130

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Good old Dicky well said.

      60

    • #
      PeterS

      Good to see Dick Smith finally getting into the ring. He and many others like him should have done so a long time ago. It may be too late to stop Shorten becoming PM but perhaps he and others, such as ACP and ON can gain the upper hand in the Senate. Otherwise, enjoy the slide into the abyss. Hopefully it will be quick so we can come out of the ashes and start rebuilding Australia again.

      61

      • #
        Bobl

        I think there is a prospect that an conservative and libertarian crossbench may protect us from the worst of shorten. Let’s hope so.

        41

        • #
          PeterS

          I hope so too. If the Senate is not in control of the conservatives, which has to include the ACP to keep the rest in check, while Shorten becomes PM then we can kiss goodbye to Australia. As for the LNP it is now clear there are certain individuals within the LNP who are going out of their way to destroy it. So we have the LNP being attacked from outside (ALP+Greens+unions+some big businesses) and from within. The sooner the LNP dies the sooner we can have a true conservative party or coalition of parties.

          51

          • #
            el gordo

            ‘… coalition of parties.’

            A rump of old white guys.

            If the green left gains government, with the full support of a compliant media, then I don’t have much faith in a political comeback by the conservatives unless there is a dramatic change in the weather.

            22

            • #
              PeterS

              As I keep saying the way it looks we need to suffer a crash and burn before enough people wake up and stop voting for the likes of the LNP, ALP and Greens of today. In the past all three were actually reasonably good – yes even the Greens when they were true environmentalists and not anarchists as they are today. At the moment too many people are comfortable and content with the way they are, regardless of whether one has a good job or is unemployed. We are still the lucky country in many respects but it can’t last for much longer. The next financial crisis probably will be the last straw for us and the other Western nations.

              41

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                Many in the greens arent actually greens – they are Communists.

                They use the greens as camoflage, as they figure most people consider the green fringe-like, so when the Communists decide to exercise thier inherent anarchist inner self, no one really thinks too much about it…..

                The biggest danger, based on history ( like the Communist slaughter of the ruling russian ( Christian ) Romanov family ) is that they attain power.

                Think we cant have gulags or deaths squads in this country? You are seriously naive.

                The Nazis didnt take long to rise to power, and once there, were ruthless in what they did and how the did it. One thing that isnt publicised greatly, is that in Russia under the Bolshevik Revolution, many 1000s of Christian Pastors / Priests / Ministers were slaughtered by the Commmunists and their places of worship turned into store houses as Athiesim was raised to the State “religion”.

                I know of Christin Missionaries in the southern africa region who openly will tell you Communism is the most feared form of thuggery and brutality in that continent.

                31

              • #
                PeterS

                Yes the Greens are anything but what the original Greens movement was about. Even their creator says so. As for being communists I personally believe they are closet neo-Nazis – at least some of them are. It’s splitting hairs though, both of course are evil. At the moment they are using the ALP to their convenience. If the Greens ever gained the upper hand (unlikely) they would turn their attack on the ALP.

                00

    • #
      yarpos

      there was a comment on Renew that said it would take “a special kind of stupid” to bang on about how renewables dont work in Canberra when your PC was 100% renewable powered.

      The writer didnt see the irony at all that you have to be a really special kind of stupid to sit in the middle of the NSW grid and believe you are 100% renewable (whatever that means, you can bet they will be playing the nameplate game, not real production)

      61

      • #
        AndyG55

        Are there any wind farms or solar farms within the ACT ??

        I can’t recall any.

        That makes the LIE of 100% renewables even more idiotic.

        34

        • #
          Bobl

          Maybe they can tile over lake Burley Griffin with them, might be able to power the PM’s Latte machine if they did

          20

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          There are 2 – both paid for by taxpayers, none of which lower power prices in the ACT, rather very heavy on virtue signalling. The ACT govt says it will be 100% renewables powered by 2020, while drawing the bulk of ACT power from the reliable fossil fuel powered main power grid.

          https://apps.treasury.act.gov.au/budget/budget-2017-2018/media-releases/environment

          “Better community support to address climate change

          The Budget will continue the work of the ACT Government to support the local community in measures that help address the impact of climate change, with a further $3.5 million investment.

          The investment includes:

          * $1.9 million over three years to continue delivering the ACT Climate Change Adaption Strategy;
          * $845,000 to promote waste reduction and increased recycling in businesses, schools and at public events;
          * $550,000 over four years to undertake a four year community zero emissions grants program for community groups and not-for-profit organisations to deliver projects and initiatives that support the ACT’s target of net zero emissions;
          * and $188,000 over three years to expand and improve existing programs such as Carbon Neutral Government and the Actsmart business energy and water program.”

          Then for 2018/2019 – a whopping $348 million over 4 years.….

          https://apps.treasury.act.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/1206698/Budget-Paper-2-Budget-in-Brief-2018-19.pdf

          “The ACT has long led the nation in environmental innovation and the transition to a low carbon economy. We are on track to deliver our commitment to power Canberra with 100 per cent renewable electricity by 2020. We are also pursuing Australia’s most ambitious emissions reduction efforts across Canberra’s transport fleet. Environment
          By 2020 we will meet

          * 100 per cent of Canberra’s electricity needs from renewable sources.

          * Our innovative reverse-auction process has secured affordable and reliable energy supply from 10 wind and solar farms
          across Australia, including the Royalla Solar Farm in Canberra, the Crookwell Wind Farm in New South Wales, the Ararat
          Wind Farm in Victoria, and the Hornsdale Wind Farm in South Australia.

          20

          • #
            AndyG55

            Are they actually within the boundaries of the ACT,

            I’m pretty sure they are not.

            Crookwell is well and truly in NSW, as is the Lake George farm.

            Please show me where these two wind farms WITHIN THE BORDERS OF THE ACT are.

            33

            • #
              AndyG55

              Crookwell, Ararat and Hornsdale feed into the network

              They DO NOT feed Canberra any more than they feed anywhere else.

              23

            • #
              OriginalSteve

              There are two pointless solar farms in the ACT – one in Hume, one in Royalla. Neither provide cheap electricity or subsidise electricity costs to ACT residents AFAIK.

              00

  • #
    Another Ian

    More on EV’s – mainly the battery side

    “Vehicle Electrification, EV Batteries—A New Hope (Followup)”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/11/27/vehicle-electrification-ev-batteries-a-new-hope-followup/

    30

    • #
      TdeF

      Good article. Lithium battery power has reached its limit, which is still very impressive. However fast charging destroys the battery, so it’s a long wait. Roll on my aluminum combustion engine, $ per kwhr a real competitor to oil and unlike carbon based fuels, infinitely renewable. No CO2 of course.

      Also

      “The Pythagorean theorem (in a right triangle, a2+b2=c2 where c is the hypotenuse) has been derived thousands of ways both geometric and algebraic. It is thought the original Greek ‘proof’ was geometric despite Diophantus, since algebra was ‘invented’ much later by the Arab al-Kwarizmi.”

      They had no decimal point either, so no square root was possible with or without algebra. The first pythagorean principle was proven with four pieces of wood. No mathematics was required. Consider the Romans even trying to multiply with MLCVIIX times LXXII.

      The early Arab counting stopped at 1,000. That’s why there were 1,001 Arabian Nights. Infinity +1.

      Real mathematics came after 1100 AD from India. +/-, decimal point. Division and multiplication.

      40

      • #
        Bobl

        Tdef I think the exhaust Aluminium oxide might be a showstopper, I’m not keen on breathing in any amount of neurotoxin.

        10

        • #
          TdeF

          No exhaust. Al2O3 is recycled as alumina powder. Comparable heat to weight, volume and cost as oil.
          100% recyclable. In volume cheaper than oil and eternal. The fuel would be solid aluminum bars and you empty the alumina for recycling. Possibly a closed system.

          20

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5577247/

            “Lithium-ion battery fires generate intense heat and considerable amounts of gas and smoke. Although the emission of toxic gases can be a larger threat than the heat, the knowledge of such emissions is limited. This paper presents quantitative measurements of heat release and fluoride gas emissions during battery fires for seven different types of commercial lithium-ion batteries. The results have been validated using two independent measurement techniques and show that large amounts of hydrogen fluoride (HF) may be generated, ranging between 20 and 200 mg/Wh of nominal battery energy capacity. In addition, 15–22 mg/Wh of another potentially toxic gas, phosphoryl fluoride (POF3), was measured in some of the fire tests. Gas emissions when using water mist as extinguishing agent were also investigated. Fluoride gas emission can pose a serious toxic threat and the results are crucial findings for risk assessment and management, especially for large Li-ion battery packs.

            …………

            “Conclusions

            This study covered a broad range of commercial Li-ion battery cells with different chemistry, cell design and size and included large-sized automotive-classed cells, undergoing fire tests. The method was successful in evaluating fluoride gas emissions for a large variety of battery types and for various test setups.

            Significant amounts of HF, ranging between 20 and 200 mg/Wh of nominal battery energy capacity, were detected from the burning Li-ion batteries. The measured HF levels, verified using two independent measurement methods, indicate that HF can pose a serious toxic threat, especially for large Li-ion batteries and in confined environments. The amounts of HF released from burning Li-ion batteries are presented as mg/Wh. If extrapolated for large battery packs the amounts would be 2–20 kg for a 100 kWh battery system, e.g. an electric vehicle and 20–200 kg for a 1000 kWh battery system, e.g. a small stationary energy storage. The immediate dangerous to life or health (IDLH) level for HF is 0.025 g/m3 (30 ppm)22 and the lethal 10 minutes HF toxicity value (AEGL-3) is 0.0139 g/m3 (170 ppm)23. The release of hydrogen fluoride from a Li-ion battery fire can therefore be a severe risk and an even greater risk in confined or semi-confined spaces.

            This is the first paper to report measurements of POF3, 15–22 mg/Wh, from commercial Li-ion battery cells undergoing abuse. However, we could only detect POF3 for one of the battery types and only at 0% SOC, showing the complexity of the parameters influencing the gas emission. No POF3 could be detected in any of the other tests.
            Using water mist resulted in a temporarily increased production rate of HF but the application of water mist had no significant effect on the total amount of released HF.

            The research area of Li-ion battery toxic gas emissions needs considerable more attention. Results as those presented here are crucial to be able to conduct a risk assessment that takes toxic HF gas into account. The results also enable strategies to be investigated for counteractions and safety handling, in order to achieve a high safety level for Li-ion battery applications. Today we have a rapid technology and market introduction of large Li-ion batteries but the risks associated with gas emissions have this far not been possible to take into consideration due to the lack of data.”

            10

        • #
          TdeF

          Normal exhaust gases will kill you too, but there are none.

          10

      • #
        TdeF

        Strangely the reason the Indian concepts of a decimal point, zero, negative numbers, addition and multiplication were adopted first by the Arab countries as under Islam, you had to divide your estate equally among your heirs. This was numerically impossible, so they adopted the Indian system. Later this moved to Europe, and took hold as mathematics.

        I put every advance after that down to one man, Frenchman Rene Descartes. We know him for Cartesian coordinates and algebra but more importantly for the core philosophy of rational thinking and absolute proofs cascading into absolute knowledge and so scientific truth. So unlike man made Global Warming where opportunists have created a consensus science and a climate religion, like the Dark Ages.

        10

  • #
    TdeF

    Bill Nye, Geoff Goldblum, Al Gore and Sting are part of a 24 hour streaming channel pushing Climate Disaster.

    It’s really hard to know who is the least qualified to talk about Climate or science. Bill Nye was an aeronautical engineer who worked for Boeing. Clouds have something to do with aircraft. Geoff Goldblum was a very depressed mathematician spouting chaos disaster theory in Jurassic park. Al Gore is a climate profiteer and Sting is a musician. Al Gore and Sting at least massive experience at watching the clouds from first class as they lecture the world on the evils of flying.

    All actors and celebrities. All talking about meteorology. It’s their thing, end of the world scenarios once they are done with it. You would think someone would ask why it hasn’t happened yet?

    92

    • #
      PeterS

      They will never think of asking the question why it hasn’t happened yet because they believe it is already happening. Now you know.

      20

    • #
      PeterS

      Just watched the latest Bolt session. He made the astute point the conservatives in the LNP are being picked off one by one by the left in the LNP. The internal war is clear. Abbott looks like he’s next on the list to be displaced. Make no mistake about it the LNP is imploding. Bolt also made a suggestion similar to what I made a long time ago. The conservatives should resign from the LNP and form their own party. I actually suggested they should join the ACP, which I think is the better option but the main issue is if they want to have an impact in politics they have to break away from the LNP – it’s infested with too many leftists who hate conservatives and only have one thing on their mind at the moment – to get rid of as many conservatives as possible. Shorten must be laughing. I’m not.

      102

  • #
    pat

    you have to laugh!

    28 Nov: AFP: Poland names coal companies partners for COP24 climate talks
    Poland on Tuesday named the EU’s largest producer of high-quality coking coal among several coal-sector companies that it chose to partner with the UN’s COP 24 global climate summit opening this weekend in the southern coal city of Katowice.

    Polish Environment minister Henryk Kowalczyk told reporters in Warsaw that the state-owned JWS company along with coal-based energy companies PGE and Tauron were chosen as partners for the global talks aimed at reducing global warming through cutting greenhouse gas emissions.
    Poland’s PZU insurance giant, its PKO BP bank and the PGNiG natural gas company are also sponsors. All six companies are state-owned…

    Relying primarily on coal for some 80 percent of its energy…
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/poland-names-coal-companies-partners-cop24-climate-talks-174812637.html

    40

    • #
      TdeF

      Yes but coking coal. This is used to make steel. The Greens have a belief that coal used to make steel is environmentally friendly as well as obviously necessary. They are only attacking what they call ‘thermal’ coal which is used to generate electricity. This has been the approach of the Australian Greens too. Ignorance of all science and in particular all chemistry is essential to be a Green. These are the people who demanded the French people buy the diesel cars they are now trying to ban. Consensus Green science. Whatever.

      60

  • #
    pat

    an attempt to circumvent the will of the incoming commissioners? read all:

    27 Nov: ClimateChangeNews: Miguel Arias Cañete: EU’s climate caterpillar looks to seal legacy
    ‘We will leave the European Union with a vision for the future,’ the commissioner tells CHN as he prepares to fight for net-zero emissions
    By Sara Stefanini
    This summer, Miguel Arias Cañete ***sneakily circumvented a stand off over the EU’s climate policy by stating a simple mathematical fact: newly hiked clean energy goals mean the bloc will inevitably make bigger emissions cuts, no matter the target on paper.
    Some saw it as a political stroke of genius.

    Caught between international pressure to speed up greenhouse gas cuts by 2030 and resistance from several EU states, the climate action and energy commissioner was telling the world that Europe is now on track to supersede its own pledge under the Paris Agreement, “de facto”.
    That, and the 2050 climate strategy the European Commission will propose on Wednesday, will cap off a five-year term that has set Europe’s climate and energy trajectory in thousands of pages of new legislation.

    ***A new class of commissioners will take over late next year. But before he signs off, Arias Cañete hopes one last push will convince policymakers to set a course to reduce greenhouse gases to net-zero by mid-century, from 60% now, he told Climate Home News on Tuesday…
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/11/27/miguel-arias-canete-eus-climate-caterpillar-looks-seal-legacy/

    20

  • #
    pat

    22 Nov: CarbonBrief: Daisy Dunne: The Carbon Brief Interview: Prof Terry Hughes
    Prof Terry Hughes is the director of the Australian Research Council Centre of Excellence for Coral Reef Studies at James Cook University in Townsville. He was awarded the 2018 John Maddox Prize for his “courageous efforts in communicating research evidence on coral reef bleaching to the public”. He has also been awarded the Darwin Medal by the International Society for Reef Studies, the Centenary Medal of Australia and an Einstein Professorship by the Chinese Academy of Sciences. In 2016, Nature described him as one of the “10 people who mattered this year”.

    CB: What do you think it is that drives a kind of apathy or scepticism towards climate change in Australia, in particular?

    TH: Some politicians are simply climate change denialists. Our current Prime Minister famously brought a lump of coal to Parliament House to spruik [publicise] its importance to the Australian economy. My reading of the politics is there’s a narrowing window of opportunity to dig up as much coal as possible before it’s outlawed as an international commodity and so there’s a huge rush now to develop enormous coal reserves in Australia – that need to be left in the ground if we’re going to have a habitable planet in the future.

    There are plans [from Indian mining firm Adani] on the table to develop one of the world’s biggest new coal mines here in Queensland and to export that coal – it’s thermal coal used for generating electricity – across the Great Barrier Reef. The Great Barrier Reef, today, after two back-to-back bleaching events, is in poor condition. The amount of corals out there on the reef is the lowest we’ve ever measured since monitoring began in the 1980s. Now is not the time to develop new coal mines in Australia or anywhere else…READ ON
    https://www.carbonbrief.org/carbon-brief-interview-prof-terry-hughes

    10

    • #
      TdeF

      “Hughes was awarded a PhD in Ecology and Evolution from The Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, USA”

      This is the new class of activist ecologist. Saving the planet. Ecology was a new subject in the 1970s, a subset of the biology/botany/zoology departments which presented as a near science but largely no hard science was involved or required. The timing was right for the river of money flooding in from concerned citizens to save the planet. Threat after threat was discovered but the granddaddy of them all was the quite incredible attack on Carbon Dioxide, now commonly known as emissions or pollution or even poison gas.

      So now the carbon cycle at the base of all life on earth is pollution itself. Amazing but sadly predictable. Cui Bono?

      50

  • #
    pat

    posted ABC on this (comment #14), but it’s now across all the CAGW FakeNewsMSM:

    28 Nov: Bloomberg: Climate Change Deniers Are Blocking Progress, UN Report Suggests for First Time
    by Eric Roston; With assistance by Mathew Carr, and Jeremy Hodges
    Paris pledges must be three times more ambitious to hit goal
    People doubt global warming because they don’t like solutions
    The United Nations’ annual assessment of global progress on climate change delivers familiar bad news this year — the problem is getting worse, not better — with a new twist: For the first time, political ideology is singled out for obstructing changes that would slow global warming…
    “There is a tendency for citizens to question problems if policy solutions challenge their world views,” the authors write…

    The assessment of human psychology, unusual for the otherwise traditional, policy-heavy report, comes five days before negotiators and envoys head to Poland to negotiate the finer details of implementing the 2015 Paris accord. The message is stark: In order to hit the agreement’s most ambitious goal, 1.5 degrees Celsius, national targets must be made five times more ambitious than those initially pledged.

    After a three-year plateau, emissions rose in 2017. “Global emissions are heading in the wrong direction with no sign of peaking,” Stephanie Pfeifer, chief executive officer of the Institutional Investors Group on Climate Change, said. “The longer we leave it, the more costly and devastating the consequences. This is a wake-up call.”…

    When it comes to selling citizens on carbon-pollution pricing, the authors say, policy makers need to confront what’s known as solution aversion, the common tendency to pretend a problem doesn’t exist if the solutions are particularly unappealing…

    For the first time in the nine years the UN has issued this report, the authors acknowledge that climate policy is at risk because people aren’t the rational actors assumed by decades of economic research. The new report blames “costs and political behavioral barriers to fiscal reforms” for an outsize influence on the gap between existing carbon prices and what research suggests are optimal for cleaning up the energy sector and industry…
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-27/climate-change-deniers-are-blocking-progress-un-report-suggests?utm_campaign=Carbon%20Brief%20Daily%20Briefing&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue%20newsletter

    DOWNLOADS: 27 Nov: UNEP: Emissions Gap Report 2018
    by UN Environment
    https://www.unenvironment.org/resources/emissions-gap-report-2018

    10

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Soviet style management of resisters – declare them insane, then imprison them.

      Coming to a society near you – soviet UN rule….

      10

  • #
    pat

    three cheers! full of insults, of course:

    28 Nov: Guardian: Brazil reneges on hosting UN climate talks under Bolsonaro presidency
    Reversal comes two months after country agreed to host COP25 conference in 2019 – and one month after far-right climate sceptic won election
    The foreign ministry announced the reversal in a message to Patrícia Espinosa, executive secretary of the UN Convention on Climate Change, according to the O Globo news website (LINK).

    Two months after winning the bid to host the COP25 conference in 2019, the note said Brazil would withdraw its offer to stage the event due to the transition in government and budget restrictions, the paper said…
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/28/brazil-reneges-on-hosting-un-climate-talks-under-bolsonaro-presidency

    50

    • #
      TdeF

      Brazil with 180 million people and a booming economy is significant. Half the area and half the economy of South America, as big as Australia, what Brazil does matters. With Italy, the US, Poland, Hungary, the wheels are coming off the UN Climate Cartel. The unholy alliance of Capitalist and communists in the EU/UN will be furious at this absurd concept of democracy. Their ideal states are Venezuela and Cuba, potentially rich countries forced into abject poverty by totalitarian socialist governments.

      The great evil in WW2 was National Socialism known derogatively by their enemies as NAZIs. It was an insult. They never called themselves NAZIS. The rampant left in America call the NAZIs Fascists and call themselves Anti-FA when they are violent totalitarian socialists, just like Hitler’s Brown Shirts and Mussolini’s Black Shirts. They even have the uniforms.

      Brazil is not going to follow the rest of South America into devastating socialism. Great.

      100

      • #
        TdeF

        You have to say Pope Francis is an Argentinian socialist. He is now pushing the end of world Climate Change story, but then modern Christian religions are based on Hell fire, the devil and Armageddon so it is not a big jump.

        I have no memory of any Pope denouncing the rise of Mussolini or Hitler or the invasion of Poland or Russia in a war of extermination of other Christians. Like the Greens, science free clergy are almost an obvious target for the Climate Change religion.

        70

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Actually, the Armageddon narrative is independent of the climate nonsense.

          Armageddon is God-initiated, not human driven.

          Critically – please dont confuse Roman Catholicism with actual Christianity – from a Biblical theological point of view, Roman Catholcism is closer to eco-paganism & pagan wicca than Christianity. This is why the pope can comfortably hang out with eco-pagans in the green & leftist movements.

          *The* reason the Protestant Church was established was because actual Christians could see Roman Catholcism was not Christian.

          I think most catholic and other denominations have hopped on the CAGW bandwagon is that they have been infiltrated and damaged internally. Interestingly, in the Last Days, the Bible says there would be a massive falling away from the Faith. If a Christian church makes following a religion of eco-paganism important, that would qualify as falling away from the Christian faith, as it means you are worshipping the creation, not the Creator ( God ). You cant serve two masters – the Bible makes this very clear.

          10

    • #
      robert rosicka

      Truly devastating news for the Junket jet setting trough feeders .

      21

  • #
    pat

    too funny not to post:

    27 Nov: France24: Poland names coal companies partners for COP24 climate talks
    WARSAW (AFP) –
    Poland on Tuesday named the EU’s largest producer of high-quality coking coal among several coal-sector companies that it chose to partner with the UN’s COP 24 global climate summit opening this weekend in the southern coal city of Katowice.
    Polish Environment minister Henryk Kowalczyk told reporters in Warsaw that the state-owned JWS company along with coal-based energy companies PGE and Tauron were chosen as partners for the global talks aimed at reducing global warming through cutting greenhouse gas emissions…
    https://m.france24.com/en/20181127-poland-names-coal-companies-partners-cop24-climate-talks?utm_campaign=Carbon%20Brief%20Daily%20Briefing&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue%20newsletter

    27 Nov: DeSmogUK: Polish Coal Company Announced as First Sponsor of UN Climate Talks in Katowice
    By Chloe Farand
    Jastrzębska Spółka Węglowa (JSW), a majority state-owned corporation and the European Union’s largest producer of high-qaulity cocking coal, has announced the partnership with COP24 in a statement on its website.
    The Polish Environment minister later announced that several other coal-sector companies had been chosen to sponsor this year’s climate talks…

    Daniel Ozon, president of JSW, said that the company was “honoured” to support the Polish Presidency of COP24 and hopes that the sponsorship will “contribute to the promotion of JSW as an environmental leader in the mining industry”.
    He added: “We want this international forum to strengthen the image of the JSW Group as the largest producer of coking coal and coke, which are the necessary ingredients for steel production and modern development, including for low-carbon industry and the innovative technologies of the future.”…

    Sriram Madhusoodanan, deputy campaigns director at the NGO Corporate Accountability, told DeSmog UK that the fact the negoation charged with solving the global climate crisis are “being bankrolled by Big Coal is absolutely unacceptable”.
    He added: “Big polluter sponsors like JSW are not only able to use sponsorship to greenwash their images, but also sponsorship will likely buy them access to the talks themselves — a massive conflict of interest.
    “Such sponsorship raises serious questions about what access and influence sponsorship buys and could risk calling into question the legitimacy of these talks before they even begin. Big polluters have no place bankrolling or participating in the UN climate talks.”
    UN Climate Change (formerly UNFCCC) has been contacted for comment.
    https://www.desmog.co.uk/2018/11/27/polish-coal-company-announced-first-sponsor-un-climate-talks-katowice?utm_campaign=Carbon%20Brief%20Daily%20Briefing&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue%20newsletter

    hope the NGOs boycott the conference.

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    pat

    a new low for The Guardian go? providing a platform for John Podesta!!!

    28 Nov: Guardian: As a warming world wreaks havoc, Trump wages war on climate science
    The US administration’s politicization of science has led to big budget cuts for data and analysis. Others must fill the gap
    by John Podesta
    The evidence of climate change is all around us, from melting Alaskan permafrost to wildfires in Sweden, from the brutal European heatwave to the devastating 2017 and 2018 hurricane seasons, which have claimed thousands of lives and caused billions of dollars in damage in Texas, Florida, Puerto Rico and North Carolina. In recent weeks, the worst wildfires in California history have wiped entire towns off the map and killed scores of people. The recent report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) warning of mass wildfires, superstorms, food shortages and dying coral reefs by 2040 was a cry for immediate action…

    If the Trump administration fails to fund the satellites, climate models, Arctic flights and other scientific investments needed to produce and interpret vital climate and energy data, other champions, including European agencies and governments, will need to step up to fill in any data, monitoring and research gaps that could set back our understanding of climate change and its impacts.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/27/climate-change-science-data-trump-administration-?utm_campaign=Carbon%20Brief%20Daily%20Briefing&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue%20newsletter

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    pat

    haha…

    27 Nov: The Hill: Gore announces celebrity guests for 24-hour climate special
    By Judy Kurtz
    A slew of Hollywood stars and musicians — including Sting, David Crosby, Claire Danes and Tea Leoni — will join Al Gore as the former vice president hosts a 24-hour broadcast special focused on what he calls the “climate crisis.”…

    The special, which will be streamed online and aired on TV stations around the world on Monday, will highlight how “we can take bold and ambitious action to ensure that future generations can live long, healthy lives full of opportunity and promise,” according to Gore…

    Also among the entertainers expected to appear during the daylong broadcast from Gore’s Climate Reality Project: Jaden Smith, actor Jeff Goldblum, TV host Bill Nye, HGTV’s Jonathan Scott, “Homeland’s” Mandy Patinkin, The Lumineers, 5 Seconds of Summer, and singers Michael Franti and Robyn…
    https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/418461-gore-announces-celebrity-guests-for-24-hour-climate-special?utm_campaign=Carbon%20Brief%20Daily%20Briefing&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue%20newsletter

    BBC’s “mums”:

    28 Nov: BBC: The two Swedish mums who want people to give up flying for a year
    Two Swedish mums have persuaded 10,000 people to commit to not taking any flights in 2019.
    Their social media initiative, No-fly 2019 (Flygfritt 2019), is aiming for 100,000 pledges, and has been asking participants to post their reasons for signing up.
    Maja Rosen and her neighbour Lotta Hammar say they started the campaign to show politicians what needs to be done to halt climate change…
    https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-46362159/the-two-swedish-mums-who-want-people-to-give-up-flying-for-a-year?utm_campaign=Carbon%20Brief%20Daily%20Briefing&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue%20newsletter

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      AndyG55

      “who want people to give up flying for a year”

      I suppose I could drive to Melbourne and back once a fortnight, instead of flying.

      The V8 needs to stretch its legs occasionally :-)

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        OriginalSteve

        Nice…..a 350 big block chevvy……

        There is nothing quite like a V8.

        Mind you, once they bring in terrahertz potentially DNA-damaging body scanners at airports everywhere, I’ll drive…..

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    pat

    Climate Home first reported it; ONLY UK Times has picked it up so far (according to my search):

    behind paywall:

    28 Nov: UK Times: Climate chief Wael Hmaidan suspended after harassment claims
    by Ben Webster
    The head of a climate change campaign group has been suspended after being accused of inappropriate behaviour towards female staff, including one who later took her own life.

    Climate Action Network (Can) International has ordered an independent investigation after complaints about Wael Hmaidan, its executive director. The group represents more than 1,300 non-governmental organisations worldwide, including the RSPB, Greenpeace, WWF and Christian Aid…
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/climate-chief-wael-hmaidan-suspended-after-harassment-claims-s09lxdd2c?utm_campaign=Carbon%20Brief%20Daily%20Briefing&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue%20newsletter

    in fact, Hmaidan is still making CAGW news in the Middle East today:

    27 Nov: The National UAE: Middle East must find new ways to tackle effects of climate change says campaigner
    Lebanese director of the Climate Action Network warns that the region is heading towards desertification and economic collapse unless it embraces change
    by Federica Marsi
    Climate change is already visible in the Middle East and this is already motivating some to take action against the ravaging of the environment. One of them is Wael Hmaidan, who started as a Greenpeace campaigner in Lebanon in the 1990s and now heads the Climate Action Network, an umbrella organization representing over 1,700 NGOs…
    The Middle East is likely to be among the worst-hit regions in the world…

    The Lebanese environmentalist conveyed his message at an international gathering at Chatham House in London recently, during which he spoke on behalf of the Climate Action Network…

    But the rise of far-right and populist parties in Europe, as well as the election of climate-sceptics of the calibre of Donald Trump in America and perhaps Jair Bolsonaro in Brasil on Sunday, among others, is threatening further political action.

    In the light of the recent political developments, the role of grassroots movements such as the ones that the Climate Action Network represents has never been more important.

    “What is missing is political will – and political will comes from social will,” Mr Hmaidan said. “The most important thing that citizen can do is to make sure that climate change is always in their tweets, posts, hashtags – we have to make it an electoral issue and it can only become [that] if citizens worry enough about it.
    “We are investing a lot in our kids’ upbringing for them to be good people in a functioning civilization, but in 50 years there will be no functioning civilization if we don’t solve climate change,” he added. “People need to know that kids now don’t have a future. This is why it should be a priority for everyone.”
    https://www.thenational.ae/world/mena/middle-east-must-find-new-ways-to-tackle-effects-of-climate-change-says-campaigner-1.784823

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    pat

    27 Nov: Reuters: EU clears 600 million euros in aid for solar power in France
    by Gabriela Baczynska
    The European Union regulators approved on Tuesday 600 million euros ($679 million) worth of French state aid for innovative solar power installations, saying it would support the bloc’s climate ambitions.

    The European Commission also said in a statement that the scheme was aimed at adding 350 megawatts of additional capacity through small installations at ground level or on buildings that would be picked through tenders by the end of this year.
    “The selected installations will receive support in the form of a feed-on tariff (i.e. a guaranteed price) or of a premium on top of the market price… for a period of 20 years,” the EU competition regulator said.
    https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-france-renewables-eu/eu-clears-600-million-euros-in-aid-for-solar-power-in-france-idUKKCN1NW11I?utm_campaign=Carbon%20Brief%20Daily%20Briefing&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue%20newsletter

    27 Nov: Finance for climate action rising, but still ‘far to go’ – analysts
    by Megan Rowling, Thomson Reuters Foundation
    A report from the Climate Policy Initiative (CPI), an international think tank, said initial estimates for global flows of climate finance in 2017 ranged from about $510 billion to $530 billion, a 12 to 16 percent increase from 2016.
    Updated figures for 2015 and 2016, based on new data becoming available, showed an annual average flow of $463 billion, which was 27 percent higher than in 2013-2014.

    CPI said the early figures for 2017 reflected rising investment in electric vehicles and funding from development banks. Renewable energy investment held steady after dropping 16 percent in 2016 on falling costs and fewer projects.
    But climate finance is still only a small share of what will be needed to decarbonise economies in the coming decades, as governments vowed to do in the 2015 Paris Agreement, it noted…

    Total adaptation finance – all from government sources – was only $22 billion per year in 2015-2016, it said…
    Lead author Padraig Oliver said corporations and investors were under growing pressure to manage climate change risks…
    https://uk.reuters.com/article/global-climatechange-investment/finance-for-climate-action-rising-but-still-far-to-go-analysts-idUKL8N1Y22UR?utm_campaign=Carbon%20Brief%20Daily%20Briefing&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue%20newsletter

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    pat

    LOL:

    27 Nov: Vice: Joe Sandler Clarke: What We Heard at a Climate Change Deniers’ Meeting at Parliament
    “Children are completely indoctrinated into one point of view at schools up and down the country,” said one of the speakers from the Global Warming Policy Foundation.
    (Joe Sandler Clarke is a reporter for Unearthed (Greenpeace))
    Due to a combination of the ***media’s obsession with balance*** and the prominence of some of its members, the environmental movement has spent years debating this organisation and trying to understand its members. Like Batman and Commissioner Gordon trying to get a handle on the Joker, climate scientists have fought to get the upper hand against an adversary that delights in contrarianism.

    But with the BBC recently announcing that climate change will get more prominence in its news coverage, GWPF is struggling to stay relevant. These people might well just want to watch the world burn, but if no one is watching them, who really cares?…

    The audience of about 40 in committee room 12 of the House of Commons was overwhelming male, pale and rather old. When I entered the room and they turned around to look at me, I felt like I’d just made a dramatic entrance into the trial of Mr Toad…

    Through the course of the meeting, GWPF felt more and more like an organisation falling into irrelevance. Take away the grand surroundings and you’re left with a niggling thought that it’s a meeting of conspiracy theorists who wouldn’t look out of place in a dreary village hall. “I’m currently in dialogue with the BBC about their bias,” began one audience member, prompting nods and “time to wrap this up” looks from the panel. The ideas espoused by its supporters – men like Piers Corbyn, Jeremy’s brother – that carbon dioxide is good for the world, and that we need more of it, just seem absurd…

    But openly denying that our climate is changing is beyond the pale now – at least, everywhere outside the White House…
    https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/a3mkyg/what-we-heard-at-a-climate-change-deniers-meeting-at-parliament?utm_campaign=Carbon%20Brief%20Daily%20Briefing&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue%20newsletter

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    Curious Roy Hogue

    Are any of you geologists or volcanologists out there aware of the seismic waves recently discovered on I think it was October or November 11th that have a 14 second period. They are apparently a single frequency with nothing but mystery about them.

    My wife showed me something about it this morning and after I read it I realized that my knowledge of the subject isn’t up to making much more than a puzzle of it. A 14 second period is apparently quite unusual according to the comments in the article — also to me but remember, I’m not an expert on any of it.

    I’ll try to get the link from her and post it as a reply to this comment.

    Anyone who can enlighten me will be much appreciated.

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      The Depraved and MOST Deplorable Vlad the Impaler

      Any link or other summary of the article would be helpful. I did a brief search for something, as you describe, and came up empty. As far as seismic waves, I see nothing much unusual about a ’14-second’ wave, unless the writer of the article you are asking about, is making the statement that this “wave” has only a single period. Most seismic waves are composed of multiple frequencies (f = 1/period), which can be analyzed according to their source (exploration seismology = human-generated waves as in ‘looking for oil/gas deposits’, vs. earthquake seismology = looking for focus and epicenter, and calculate magnitude, as caused by nature).

      We would also need to know the medium of the ‘wave’, as there is a complicating dependence upon the velocity of propagation. Loose sand or wet shale has a different velocity than any other kind of indurated rock (most igneous rock has a higher velocity than the ordinary sedimentary rock we deal with on a routine basis, i.e., near-surface). Hit us back if you can supply some more specific information, and us “geo” types will see if we can chime in.

      Vlad

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        Roy Hogue

        Vlad,

        I believe the article said a single frequency, only waves with a 14 second period. Hope that helps make something of it. It’s origin is apparently under water and deep but no statement as to how deep. Lots of theory and not a whole lot of knowledge. Will know more eventually.

        The article did not look like something from a source that would give very many details. Darling wife was on her way to a day of shopping when she showed it to me and then out the door.

        I thought this might be something that would be followed by geologists, etc.

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          The Depraved and MOST Deplorable Vlad the Impaler

          Hi Roy,

          I was able to look at the link that beowulf provided, and it would seem that the two of you are on the same “wavelength” (pun intended). If at all possible, I would appreciate seeing the original that your better half was referencing. Then I can do a more thorough analysis.

          Here’s what I can say, with at lest some confidence that I will not be contradicted, but as I am a learner, I welcome the chance to improve my knowledge and understanding:

          *If it is, indeed, some single-wavelength seismic wave, then it would almost have to be artificial. I am at a loss to think or, or find, a natural source that produces a single wavelength. Even our best exploration seismology tools produce wavelengths overlapping from just a few centimetres to many metres (and even kilometres) in length. Now, just for completeness, I am NOT referring to the VibroSeis method, which, by necessity and design, produces a multiplex of frequencies. The “non-linear” VibroSeis even imparts a great deal more energy into the short-wavelength (high frequency) portion of the impulse, in an attempt to better define thin-bed stratigraphy.

          *This ’14-second’ period means, by default, that we are dealing with a very, VERY long wavelength. If it helps to visualize it, consider the Tacoma Narrows bridge (the one built in the Depression), and what you might notice is that as “Galloping Gertie” was in the process of shaking itself to death, the period of the waves propagating along the span was on the order of five-to-eight seconds. There have been reports of Rayleigh waves, near earthquake epicenters, reaching periods close to ten seconds; these reports are unverified, and we have to consider that the reporting individuals were under some stress at the time, and stress, as we all know, can cause distortion in time perception.

          If I may (and, yes, I give myself permission to go down a rabbit-trail, since I’m very very old, and have lots of completely boring, inappropriate, and pointless anecdotes, that have nothing to do with anything at all, except that I like telling long, boring anecdotes about myself … … … what were we talking about? … … … ).

          I live in Casper, Wyoming, and a number of years ago, I was on the phone (does anyone besides me remember landlines?) with my daughter, who lived (at the time) in a “suburb” west of Casper-proper, called Paradise Valley. I was lying on a couch at the time, my head to the east, when a sharp (and very VERY short) “popping” sound happened. Now, I know y’all think I’m crazy, but truth is, I knew (1) that it was a small-magnitude earthquake (this one was my third); (2) because of the orientation of my body, quite fortuitously, I knew the direction of propagation was East —> West. I stated to Michelle, ‘we just had an earthquake’, and at about the same time, she reported feeling the Rayleigh wave as well.

          Turns out, the next day, there were reports from the USGS of a 3.2 event in the Southern Powder River Basis, not to far from Douglas, Wyoming, about 62 km east of Casper.

          Of course, the amplitude of that surfacial-wave event was very small (doubtful if the displacement was over one or two millimetres), and the duration was less than a fraction of a second, but it was still an interesting event. Had I not been geologically astute, and had not felt similar events growing up in the greater Salt Lake City metroplex, I would not have known what I was hearing and feeling.

          Hit me back if you find something else, and I’ll happily bore you with additional pointless anecdotes; remember, C.T. says that I’m a bully, and really, really boring in the first place,

          Regards,

          Vlad (a crashing bore, and and even bigger bully, according to C.T.)

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            Roy Hogue

            Vlad and anyone else interested,

            Now that my wife s home again and there are a few minutes without a holiday crisis about to crash, here is the URL. It’s from National Geographic, not one f the ms reliable sources, at least compared with what they used to be.

            It’s interesting that you said it would almost certainly be man made. When my wife showed it to me she was suspicious of the same thing and not because she knows anything about geology or physics (she was an elementary school teacher) but because of the article itself. I quickly poured cold water on that idea because the source seems to be quite deep and because I can’t think of a human cause for waves with a 14 second length. But what do I know? See what you can make of it.

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              Roy Hogue

              I have my own little story about Casper Wyoming. It’s not nearly as earth shaking as yours but it was an unusual thing.

              When compact discs came along in 1983 I got serious and set up a good music system, complete with an AM/FM tuner. One night I was scanning around the AM dial and I heard temperatures in the -20°F range mentioned. The reception was as good as any local station with no flutter or fading in and out — just perfect.

              Now I live in Southern California where -20 would be the end of the world. So I decided to stick around until the station break and see what I was listening to. It was a station in Casper Wyoming.

              That’s the only case of that kind I ever found. When conditions are just right the AM band can bounce around for a long way after dark. You need a 50 kW clear channel station to be able to do that so there must be one in Casper. I’ve long ago forgotten the call letters.

              Not bad for my own homebrew antenna. And my homemade FM antenna works as well as anything you get with consumer radios because I could hang it high up in the garage and make a proper folded dipole with perfect impedance match all the way to the receiver. Remember 300 Ohm twin lead? It works perfectly but just try to find any now that digital has taken over.

              So much for exciting stories about Casper Wyoming. But I’m glad I was here, not there.

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                robert rosicka

                I was camped near Port Augusta a few years back and just before dark I was trying to get a channel on the car radio but couldn’t get much on FM so switched to AM and got my local radio station from Wangaratta.
                It was a cloudy evening but no wind .

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                The Depraved and MOST Deplorable Vlad the Impaler

                That would be KTWO Radio, AM 1030 on your radio dial, Roy. Yep, I remember you telling that one, on another thread, some time back.

                Thank God! for “GLOBAL WARMING”! With the El Nino kicking in for this winter, we may be looking at a mild, albeit somewhat wet, winter. I do not mind the snow so much as that -30 (Fahrenheit) with that 50-knot wind (and always from the SW). Even plug-in block heaters leave you with a hard start in the morning.

                Hey, Roy!! I’m keen to visit my brother in San Jose; not sure when, but we keep talking about it, and either May 2019 or May 2020 it could happen. You in N. Cali, bro?

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                Roy Hogue

                San Jose is roughly 300 miles north of me. You would have only an hour’s flight from San Jose to LAX but then probably an hour of driving to get to me after landing plus the time at the airport both ways. Or you could land at Bob Hope in burbank and shorten the drive.

                I’d be glad to see you if you can get here but I wouldn’t be able to get to San Jose anymore.

                I’m not sure how I would manage to introduce Vlad the Impaler to my wife though. ;-)

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                The Depraved and MOST Deplorable Vlad the Impaler

                Not to worry: If I do get to visit my brother, I’d be in a vehicle (ya know, one of those fossil-fuel burning, carbon-pollution spewing, we’re-all-gonna-die chokin’ smokin’ automobiles [why does Jerry Reed keep wandering through my mostly-dead brain?]. It would be a minor side-trip to wander your direction, before heading back through S. Nevada, up I-15 into Utah (where I have the choice of camping out [WOOOO-HOOOO! San Rafael Swell, here I COME!!!!] or staying w/ myriad friends, acquaintances, and other like-minded ne’er-do-wells) as I meander towards Casper.

                And, I would just “cut” to the chase, and introduce me by my real name: Monsingor Guillotine Chopper, heralded inventor of the original Slice-O-Matic food (and enemy) processor. When we are introduced, I will say to your lovely young bride, “Knife to meet you!” followed by, “May I TAKE your hand?” I’m sure you’ll both find my manners a “cut” above the average Joe.

                So, if you’re of a mind to try and rendezvous, I know I’m up for the little side-trip. I’ll try to keep you posted here, until we can get Jo/mods to exchange our e-mail addresses.

                You may find the exchange over on the ‘Jo talks to the GWPF’ thread (at #23) interesting.

                Or not … … … … …

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                Roy Hogue

                I’m for it if you want to set up a meet. You can get me the details through Jo as you probably know.

                I think I would probably introduce you as one more nut case I met on the Internet. I think she would find that easy enough to understand.

                No guarantee that I would be available on just any old day so let me know in advance and I’ll plan for it.

                And now I think we’ve abused Jo’s patience more than we should have.

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              The Depraved and MOST Deplorable Vlad the Impaler

              Yes, definitely interesting, and the fact that the experts in the field (I’m little more than an educated lay-person in EQ Seismology, but licensed to practice before the public, in the State of Wyoming and adjoining states, in Exploration Seismology), so I would have nothing to add to the discussion of these, well-versed individuals.

              I do like the idea that there is some form of resonance taking place, such that the environment is filtering out competing frequencies, and selectively passing this one single wavelength. Perhaps the posited investigations by the French will result in some new hypothesis developing, and a better understanding of ancient tectonics.

              Vlad

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      beowulf

      I don’t know about your waves Roy, but there is no mystery about these other seismic waves, brought to your home by some distant wind turbine. So not only folks that live near turbines are affected by their infrasound, but also those many miles away where the geology is conducive to conducting the infrasound via the turbine base through the ground. The same physical effects have been observed.
      http://notrickszone.com/2017/05/31/new-study-sees-new-health-risk-to-humans-from-wind-turbines-micro-seismicity/

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        Kinky Keith

        Good find Beowulf.

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        Roy Hogue

        Interesting how noise is interpreted by various people. When I was in the army my wife and I lived off post in a place not 15 feet from the Boston & Main railroad tracks. The first night there I woke up suddenly and had a freight train going in one ear and out the other. Scared the stuffing out of me.

        After we were there only a few days we didn’t notice it anymore. I remember having friends from California stop by to see us and suddenly they were sitting there looking like the world was ending. I wasn’t aware that a train was going by until I noticed their reaction.

        But that’s intermittent noise. Constant noise is quite a different animal. And wind turbines have the same potential for biased research against as they have for the pro side of he issue. I’m not the expert but I’m dubious about seismic waves from wind turbines being a problem. The sound might be another matter.

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      Mary E

      Curious Roy – USAn article here – https://nypost.com/2018/11/29/nobody-knows-why-the-earth-just-rang-like-a-bell/

      I did a search on the area, came up with an article, and now I can’t find the one I want – but have found https://watchers.news/2018/11/29/mayotte-seismo-volcanic-crisis/ and http://www.brgm.eu/news-media/earthquake-swarm-mayotte-clearer-understanding-is-emerging

      It seems the media can’t be bothered to look this stuff up themselves, ask the wrong sort of scientists (assuming all scientists know exactly the same things??) or just prefer alarming and vague headlines and articles.

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        Roy Hogue

        It looks like the same place but no one mentions the 14 second ringing. As you said, most people and that includes journalists don’t know enough to begin to understand natural phenomena even slightly. And a scientist of course is equivalent to every other scientist.

        I found the same thing when there’s a small plane crash and the first thing they ask is if there was a flight plan as if a pilot had to file a flight plan and have it approved by someone or he couldn’t fly. Dumb! No, ignorant. You would think that if you were hiring someone to cover X (whatever X is) you would get them up to speed on the basics of X. But it doesn’t happen.

        And now that we’ve all hashed this 14 second seismic wave through comment after comment I still feel as ignorant about it as when I started. The only thing I’m sure of is that it doesn’t come from and earthquake because earthquakes don’t cause monotonic waves with a 14 second period, at least not directly.

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    Another Ian

    “UN Climate Report Recommends Taxing Carbon and Discouraging Agriculture”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/11/28/un-climate-report-recommends-taxing-carbon-and-discouraging-agriculture/

    That’ll go down a treat

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    Chris in Hervey Bay

    Yesterday, I was on the operating table at St. Stephens Hospital, Hervey Bay.
    Looking up, I could see a multitude of gadgets, lights, big lights, and beside me there were trolleys of all sorts of instruments with dozens of coloured wires that they were attaching to my body. Numerous coloured screens were flashing numbers and drawing yellow lines across their faces.
    There was one of our common thunderstorms going on outside, I could hear the thunder. The lights flickered a few times, everyone stopped what they were doing. Then someone said, that the backup was on and stable.
    It was then, I truly realised how important technology is to our society. Without electricity, coal, oil, and gas, I may have never made it this far along the journey of life.

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      PeterS

      Without electricity, coal, oil, and gas, civilisation as we know today would die. Yet the vast majority of the people are still returning governments with policies heading in that direction. Go figure.

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        OriginalSteve

        It has to be a spiritual condition….you cant explain it with logic.

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          Dennis

          Actually it is all about material, not spiritual, profiteering and stealing taxpayer’s wealth including from their nation.

          And ultimately taking control.

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            OriginalSteve

            I was more thinking of the public. They are so disengaged….as evil grows, people seem oblivious to it akl….

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      Hasbeen

      A friend of mine had a copra plantation on an atoll north of Bougainville. He also had a coco plantation on a high island about 90 miles away. He was a good farmer, well organised, with a wealth of knowledge, open to any new thinking. He had become reasonable wealthy.

      Both were well set up with airstrips power houses, & facilities to take care of the locals on both islands.

      In his mid 50s he suffered a mild heart attack, no worse than the ones I’ve had. However from his atoll he had to get a light aircraft to pick him up, to take him to Rabaul for primary treatment. He then flew Air New Guinea to Moresby for further treatment, before flying Qantas to Cairns for proper treatment.

      Unfortunately he had suffered too much damage in the almost 3 days getting to Cairns. He was patched up, & went back to his atoll, where he died 9 months later.

      Ozzies no matter how remote have a much better chance of survival. The flying doctor can get people to good treatment very quickly today. Imagine the change without fuel for those aircraft. We’d be no better off than my mate. Hell imagine no vehicle fuel & transport by horse & sulky. You’d have to live damn close to a major hospital to survive even a minor heart attack.

      A hell of a lot of us would die very much younger if we did not have transport fuel.

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    Another Ian

    I wonder if the High Court will take notice?

    US Supreme Court unanimous decision on government land grabs

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2018/11/25/w-o-o-d-25-november-2018/#comment-104461

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    robert rosicka

    More fiction from the ABC ? Whenever I see reports of “Unprecedented ” or “Living memory” I do a quick check .
    BOM reckons this site is comparable for rainfall history and the first reference year I picked was 1994 , which shows 1994 was drier so living memory must mean the farmer was fairly young .

    Rainfall chart

    http://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/ncc/cdio/cvg/av

    And Bogus story

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2018-11-29/wa-forgotten-farmers-face-record-breaking-dry/10564856

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    PeterS

    It’s bad enough to burden the West with draconian, suicidal and totally useless efforts to reduce our emissions. Now they are talking about Stratospheric aerosol injection tactics and costs in the first 15 years of deployment in an effort to cool the planet. It’s more than just utter lunacy. It ought to be considered as an extreme act of terrorism. I would not blame say China or Russia declaring war over any nation proposing such an act of terrorism.

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    Mark M

    Uh oh … bad news for the resident red thumber …

    It is Difficult to be Optimistic about Climate Action at COP 24

    Reuters reported earlier this month that President’s Trump team will “set up a side-event promoting fossil fuels” at the conference.

    So, all in all, even before the conference starts, it is very difficult to have any optimism that serious progress will be made in Katowice.

    https://londongreenleft.blogspot.com/2018/11/it-is-difficult-to-be-optimistic-about.html

    Winning.

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    Rod McLaughlin

    Is this a first? It’s a leading questionnaire.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/nov/27/tell-us-was-2018-the-year-you-woke-up-to-climate-change


    What prompted you to recognise climate change this year?”

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    pat

    it was inevitable theirABC would run with this “story”:

    AUDIO: 28 Nov: ABC Breakfast: Fran Kelly: Former Trump campaign director Paul Manafort met with Assange, reports say — World News with Matt Bevan
    The Guardian has reported former Trump campaign director Paul Manafort met with Julian Assange in the Ecuadorian embassy ahead of WikiLeaks publishing Democratic Party emails in 2016…
    According to US Intelligence Agencies, WikiLeaks played a key role in Russia’s interference campaign in the 2016 election as the website which released the emails hacked from the Democratic Party and the Clinton campaign.

    Could this provide the crucial missing link the case arguing the Trump campaign active.ly colluded with the Russian campaign to interfere in the election?
    For more on this story, Matt Bevan joins RN Breakfast…
    https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/world-news-with-matt-bevan/10561000

    Bevan would be an expert on the topic!

    ABC: Matt Bevan
    Matt Bevan is newsreader and reporter for RN Breakfast with Fran Kelly, specialising in US and Asian politics. Prior to this he was a producer for ABC Radio Sydney. He has worked for the ABC since 2008, originally in his home town of Newcastle, NSW.
    Programs presented: Russia, If You’re Listening
    It’s the most important news story of the decade – the investigation which could bring down US President Donald Trump.
    14 May: BONUS: New podcast Russia, If You’re Listening
    Donald Trump has always claimed he has “nothing to do with Russia” but is that true? This is the first episode of the ABC’s new podcast, Russia, If You’re Listening. It is about the most important news story of the decade – the investigation which could bring down US President Donald Trump.
    14 Sept: Program: Russia, If You’re Listening
    It’s the most important news story of the decade – the investigation which could bring down US President Donald Trump.

    NOT ON ABC BREAKFAST THIS MORNING, TOO BUSY WITH NEW FAKENEWS STORIES, INCLUDING ANTI-BREXIT PIECES!

    28 Nov: ABC: Reuters/AP: Former Trump campaign head Paul Manafort denies ‘totally false’ report that he met with Julian Assange
    The Guardian reported that Mr Manafort held secret talks with Mr Assange in Ecuador’s embassy in London in 2013, 2015 and March 2016 — the same month Mr Manafort joined the Trump campaign and Russian hackers began an effort to penetrate the email accounts of Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign.
    WikiLeaks released damaging emails months later…

    “We are considering all legal options against the Guardian, who proceeded with this story even after being notified by my representatives that it was false.”
    In a statement, a spokesperson for the Guardian said the “story relied on a number of sources”.
    “We put these allegations to both Paul Manafort and Julian Assange’s representatives prior to publication,” the spokesperson said.
    “Neither responded to deny the visits taking place.
    “We have since updated the story to reflect their denials.”…

    The surprise development came as Mr Mueller was working towards finalising a report on his probe into whether Russia and Mr Trump’s campaign colluded in the 2016 presidential election…

    (FINAL LINE) WikiLeaks denounced the story, tweeting it was “willing to bet the Guardian a million dollars and its editor’s head that Manafort never met Assange” and that it has launched a legal fund to sue the newspaper for publishing a “fabricated story”.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-28/paul-manafort-denies-meeting-wikileaks-founder-julian-assange/10564374

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      pat

      former prog left media darlings Wikileaks:

      TWEETS: Wikileaks
      Remember this day when the Guardian permitted a serial fabricator to totally destroy the paper’s reputation. @WikiLeaks is willing to bet the Guardian a million dollars and its editor’s head that Manafort never met Assange

      Ninety minutes after publication the Guardian modifies its “Manafort held secret talks with Assange” headline to add “, sources say”…
      https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1067430101548027906

      former prog left media darling, Glenn Greenwald:

      TWEETS: Glenn Greenwald:
      1/ Why do attacks on the US media – calling it “Fake News” – resonate so widely? Because of utterly fabricated and reckless articles like this one from @politico, by a former *CIA officer allowed to write under a “pen name”*. The whole thing is a fraud:

      2/ The only point of the article is to *invent out of whole cloth* a wild conspiracy theory: that perhaps Russia-controlled operatives caused the @Guardian to publish a false story – its viral Assange/Manafort story – in order to discredit Luke Harding for his Russia reporting…

      3/ The whole conspiracy theory is made up with no evidence. Worse, it relies on blatant fabrications, such as the one highlighted here. Everyone knows I didn’t work with WL to report the Snowden story. It’s a lie. But US media outlets are *willing to lie if the targets are right*

      4/ POLITICO also allowed this ex-CIA agent’s to falsely claim that the only people raising doubts about the Guardian’s story are people who are part of “Russia’s disinformation network.” In fact, as @Emptywheel noted, a wide range of people raised doubts about the story. Compare:…ETC

      5/ The US media has only itself to blame for the attacks on it. If you are willing to outright lie like this when it advances your narrative, invent wild conspiracy theories & malign people as Russian agents, you don’t deserve the respect that media outlets demand they receive.

      6/ In response to a highly dubious Guardian story, POLITICO allowed an ex-CIA officer to use a fake name to publish demonstrable lies and blame Russia for this potentially huge media scandal – zero self-critique. Why would a profession that acts this way expect to be trusted?

      7/ In less than 48 hours, we went from “MANAFORT SECRETLY MET WITH ASSANGE 3 TIMES IN THE EMBASSY” (Guardian) to “MAYBE THE RUSSIANS TRICKED THE GUARDIAN INTO PUBLISHING A FALSE STORY” (Politico’s CIA writer). Next: why do people not trust news outlets??? It’s so unfair!
      https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1067922520517632010

      Guardian doubling down with new Wikileaks/Trump/Farage(aka Mr. Brexit) story! what do they omit to mention in the following excerpt?

      29 Nov: Guardian: Trump adviser sought WikiLeaks emails via Farage ally, Mueller document alleges
      by Jon Swaine in New York
      Last year Glenn Simpson, a Washington-based investigator ***whose firm prepared the explosive Trump-Russia dossier in 2016, told congressional investigators…
      https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/28/ted-malloch-wikileaks-information-trump-campaign-mueller-investigation

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    pat

    theirABC – and the rest of our FakeNewsMSM – have been expressing outrage over tear gas being used on so-called “migrants” at the US/Mexico border.

    however, I can find nothing at theirABC re any of the following:

    28 Nov: Fox News Insider: Study: Evening Newscasts Ignored Use of Tear Gas at Border During Obama Administration
    Federal agents used tear gas on the U.S.-Mexico border dozens of times during the Obama administration, data from the Department of Homeland Security shows, despite outrage at the Trump administration from Democrats for using the substance against migrant caravan members over the weekend.
    According to DHS data, during the Obama administration, tear gas was used on the border 26 times in 2012, 27 times in 2013, 15 times in 2014, eight times in 2015, and three times in 2016. That compares to 18 times in 2017 and 29 times in 2018 during the Trump administration.
    Additionally, during the Obama administration, pepper spray was used 95 times in 2012, 151 times in 2013, 109 times in 2014, 30 times in 2015 and 56 times in 2016, the data shows…

    “When he (Obama) uses tear gas, he’s protecting the country,” (Repubican Senator Lindsey) Graham said of the left’s coverage of Obama’s actions…
    “The Obama administration used the same tactics and used [them] more than the Trump administration,” (Republican strategist Gus) Portela said, arguing many in the media are “all in” with their support of Democrats and opposition to Trump.
    “The mainstream media will never, ever give the president a fair shake because they don’t agree with the policies he’s implementing. And so this is an inherent bias against this president.”
    http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/11/28/study-evening-newscasts-did-not-mention-use-tear-gas-border-during-obama-admin

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    • #
      James Murphy

      similar to reporting on the 2017 FBI “hate crime report”, where the media deliberately misinterpret the results – with a political target in mind.

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    • #
      AndyG55

      Water cannon, with a really strong orange, or maybe purple dye :-)

      What colour should they use?

      Give reasons for your answer.

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    Another Ian

    Rinse and repeat

    “Failed Oregon Solar Equipment Plant Leaves Behind Millions in Taxpayer Losses”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/11/28/failed-oregon-solar-equipment-plant-leaves-behind-millions-in-taxpayer-losses/

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    • #
      AndyG55

      I often wonder how many mansions the CEOs of these “green” companies end up with (or funds in a family trust).

      Certainly, the whole place is one big TOXIC MESS. !!

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    Another Ian

    “An Assessment of the 4th National Climate Assessment”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/11/28/an-assessment-of-the-4th-national-climate-assessment/

    Applies the waddy sternly to the climate models with one exception

    “All climate models fail to predict the weather or climate, with the possible exception of the Russian model INM-CM4(Volodin, Dianskii and Gusev 2010). This model is mostly ignored by the climate community, presumably because it does not predict anything bad. As you can see in Figure 1, INM-CM4 matches observations reasonably well and that makes it an outlier among the 32 model output datasets plotted. This success also makes INM-CM4 the only validated model in the group.” (My bold).

    I’ve wondered for a while if this model also comes from the Russian school that doesn’t buy CO2 as the blame. If so is it only russia’s clout that keeps it in the ICPP listing?

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    • #
      Another Ian

      Conclusion

      “The worst possible scenario in NCA4 results in a GDP decrease that is far less than the margin of error in the estimate. In other words, it amounts to nothing. This is pretty much what the report itself amounts to.”

      Priceless IMO.

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        Kinky Keith

        Thanks Ian,

        I refuse to bother looking at any models because in the brief time I did spend on them a while back, they were obviously constructed with the intent of making CO2 the official scapegoat.
        Real models have real and measurable factors.
        To have a model with one factor only when it is obvious that other factors carry out the same function is ridiculous, or perhaps, politics.

        I have quantified the effect of human origin CO2 previously and it is irrelevant compared with water and Natural Origin CO2.

        There is no way around these facts.

        The climate models are F$ke.

        KK

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  • #
    pat

    behind paywall:

    Sydney council’s energy target twice as strict as Paris Agreement
    Daily Telegraph-19 hours ago
    The City of Ryde has voted to investigate making every one of its facilities take 60 per cent of their power from renewable sources by 2030…

    AUDIO: 3min57sec: 29 Nov: 2GB: Ray Hadley: Sydney council wants renewable energy target ‘more extreme than Federal Labor’
    A Liberal councillor has hit out at his council’s move to implement a 60 per cent renewable energy target, labelling it “extraordinary”.
    Ryde Council will look into whether its facilities can source most of their power from renewables by 2030.
    The target they’re looking at is twice as much as the controversial Paris Agreement.

    Liberal councillor Jordan Lane is concerned about the impact the target could have on residents.
    “We shouldn’t be making decisions like this if we’re not sure of the impact it’s going to have on our ratepayers,” he tells Ray Hadley.
    “I find it extraordinary that we would take on board an initiative like this, that’s more extreme than Federal Labor, without first knowing whether or not it’s going to have an adverse effect on the rates.”
    He says the council should focus on getting the basics right, including the “three Rs”; roads, rates and rubbish.
    https://www.2gb.com/sydney-council-wants-renewable-energy-target-more-extreme-than-federal-labor/

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    pat

    behind paywall:

    28 Nov: Financial Times: Cutting carbon emissions to zero will cost billions, says EU
    Cutting carbon emissions to zero in line with the Paris climate accord could require up to €290bn a year in additional investment in Europe, the EU has said as it prepares the ground for a bruising battle at next week’s UN climate talks…
    https://www.ft.com/content/b1323840-f253-11e8-ae55-df4bf40f9d0d

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    pat

    behind paywall:

    28 Nov: BusinessGreen: Energy efficiency slowdown threatening EU targets
    by Madeleine Cuff
    European Environment Agency warns rising energy consumption means EU at risk of missing crucial energy and climate targets
    Rising energy consumption, particularly in the transport sector, is jeopardising the EU’s ability to meet its climate targets, according to official analysis released this week by the European Environment Agency (EEA)…
    https://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news/3067126/energy-efficiency-slowdown-threatening-eu-targets

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    pat

    blame the weather:

    behind paywall:

    29 Nov: UK Times: ‘Weather will blow the nice view, not the wind farm’
    by Mike Merritt
    A windfarm off the Scottish coast will not spoil the panoramic vistas of the Moray Firth because the view is “often obscured by the weather”, according to planners.

    An 85-turbine project in the Outer Moray Firth has been agreed by Highland councillors despite the proposal being recommended for refusal by council officials.
    There had also been objections over the scheme’s impact on fishing, wildlife and military aircraft.
    Highland planning officers had warned that some of the turbines would have a “significantly detrimental impact” on open panoramic sea views and suggested limiting the westward extent of the wind farm…

    The Ministry of Defence objected because of “unacceptable interference” to air traffic control radar used by RAF Lossiemouth, while Scottish Natural Heritage and the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds (RSPB) said the development would have an adverse effect on kittiwakes and other birds. But Maxine Smith, the Highland council’s north planning committee chairwoman, said the project would bring economic benefits including an estimated 143 jobs in Invergordon…
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d79e9c1e-f341-11e8-8c84-29b2667b0b46

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    pat

    it’s only trillions:

    29 Nov: Financial Times: Private players plug in to the green energy revolution
    There is a gap for investors to finance the shift towards renewables
    by Javier Espinoza
    More than ***$2.3tn of annual investment in the energy sector is needed to meet the “sustainable development” conditions that will help avoid catastrophic climate change, according to the International Energy Agency.

    That annual commitment must rise again to an average of more than ***$3.2tn between 2025 and 2040, with much of it skewed towards renewable power sources and improved efficiency, to achieve the best-case scenario set out in the IEA’s latest Energy Outlook report.

    Commenting on the report this month, Fatih Birol, IEA executive director, said: “Seventy per cent of global energy investments will be government-driven and, as such, the message is clear — the world’s energy destiny lies with government decisions.”

    However, within this sphere of spending, much of the investment will be private money attracted by full or partial revenue guarantees from governments. Meanwhile, just over a quarter of total energy investment in the coming decades is still expected to come from private enterprises, responding to prices set in competitive markets.
    Last year’s $1.8tn of global energy spending — both public and private — undershot the IEA’s yearly spending target to guarantee energy supplies and meet climate change ambitions…

    “You have a huge amount of investors now who care about climate change, not because they think they want to make the world a better place but [because] they see it as a risk,” says Maximilian Horster, head of ISS-Climate, a consultancy that helps investors understand the impact of climate change on their investments. “Investors ask themselves: ‘What are the physical effects of climate change for my portfolio?’”

    In the UK alone, more than 120 green energy projects have been financed through crowdfunding, according to a report published last year by trade body TheCityUK and the Centre for Climate Finance and Investment at Imperial College Business School. Among institutional investors, global green bond issuance grew from $3bn in 2011 to $95bn annually in 2016, according to the study.

    Green bonds, which are used to finance renewable power and other environmentally friendly projects, have been particularly popular with large global institutional investors. The California State Teachers’ Retirement System, one of the largest pension funds in the US, has allocated $300m to the asset class. It also invests millions of dollars in clean energy, infrastructure and low-carbon indices.

    Vikram Widge, global head of climate finance and policy at the International Finance Corporation (the World Bank’s private sector arm) says investors such as Calstrs like investing in green bonds because it is similar to investing in fixed-income assets. “The investors like it. It’s simple,” he says. “It builds on what they understand.”

    IFC has itself directly invested billions of dollars in green bonds, he adds — though he also notes that the asset class has failed to take off in emerging markets, limiting its power to expand green financing. “I think that’s the biggest challenge facing the green bond market right now,” Mr Widge says. “We are trying to get our clients, especially financial institutions in emerging markets, to build out this asset class.”

    To help green bonds gain mass appeal, investors, including the World Bank and asset manager Amundi, launched the Global Green Bond Partnership this year to encourage green bond issuance.
    Variations of green bonds are also emerging. The Seychelles, an archipelago of islands in the Indian Ocean, recently raised $15m in the first “blue bond”. It will use the funds to support its fisheries sector, on which it depends heavily for food and jobs.

    Earlier this year, Swiss private equity firm Partners Group launched its first $1bn social impact fund, which aims — among other goals — to invest in clean energy. It was created with the backing of investors, including the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board and the state of Texas pension fund.
    ..

    Separately, US buyout firm TPG is raising $3bn for its second Rise fund, which focuses partly on investments aimed at making positive environmental impacts. Investments in its current $2bn fund include Wilderness Holdings, which protects millions of acres of African wilderness, and Fourth Partner Energy, a provider of solar energy in India

    Others, such as US buyout firm Carlyle, are also looking to target companies that will somehow benefit from tackling climate change. David Rubenstein, Carlyle’s co-founder, says: “More and more money is going to go to things that deal with global warming.”

    Runa Alam, a veteran investor in Africa and chief executive at private equity group Development Partners International, says: “The impact of putting money into a solar project is huge. Any money that comes in for Africa and climate change makes an impact all over the world because we breathe the same air.”…
    https://www.ft.com/content/76f1e95e-c883-11e8-86e6-19f5b7134d1c

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    pat

    AUDIO: 7min51sec: 18 Nov: Deutsche Welle: Sarah Steffen: World in Progress: What’s at stake at COP24?
    The issue of funding is going to be a hotly debated topic at the global climate summit in Poland. According to the Paris Agreement, poorer nations were promised US$100 billion every year starting in 2020. DW spoke to Subhi Barakat, Senior Researcher on Climate Change at the International Institute for Environment and Development, asking what kind of outcome developing countries are expecting.
    https://www.dw.com/en/world-in-progress-whats-at-stake-at-cop24/av-46491964

    28 Nov: France24: Brazil rescinds offer to host 2019 UN climate conference
    “Considering the current financial and budgetary restrictions, which are expected to continue in the near future, and the process of transition for the recently elected administration … the Brazilian government feels obliged to rescind its offer to host COP25,” the foreign ministry said in a statement…

    Earlier this month, Bolsonaro appointed career diplomat Ernesto Araujo as his new foreign minister, a man who this week hit out at “climate scare-mongering” in an article in the Gazeta do Povo newspaper…

    “The Brazilian government has carried out a meticulous analysis of the requirements to host COP25. The analysis focuses, in particular, on the financial necessities associated with hosting this event,” added the foreign ministry…

    Writing in his personal blog, Araujo — a fan of US President Donald Trump, who has already pulled his country out of the Paris climate accord — hit out at Brazil’s political left for “kidnapping the environment cause and perverting it to the point of seizure.”
    He accused the left of creating a “climate change ideology.”

    The decision is “regrettable but not surprising,” climate think tank Observatorio del Clima said.
    “It’s probably due to the elected government, which has already declared war on sustainable development on more than one occasion.
    “It’s not the first, nor will it be the last bad news from Jair Bolsonaro in this domaine.”
    The think tank said Bolsonaro’s regime would be “desisting from protecting the population” in denying climate change
    https://www.france24.com/en/20181128-brazil-rescinds-offer-host-2019-un-climate-conference

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    Bill In Oz

    THERE IS NO CO2 CLIMATE WARMING ON MARS !!!

    Does increased CO2 in the atmosphere cause the earth to warm ?

    A comparison with Mars is worth noting. In fat it’s very interesting

    CO2 makes up 96% of the composition of it’s atmosphere and weighs ~24 terratonnes.

    By contrast CO2 in the Earth’s atmosphere is 0.00048 % & weighs ~ 2.4 terratonnes.

    (All these figures come from Wikipedia. I’m not making them. )

    Ummmmmm ? Let’s think about that folks..

    Despite all that CO2 in the Martian atmosphere, there is NO CO2 greenhouse warming to speak of..

    In Winter ambient temperature on Mars can reach a minimum of -136 degrees C..Very bloody cold ! And in Summer ambient temperature gets a maximum of just 35 degrees C.

    What’s all that CO2 on Mars doing ? Maybe all that martian CO2 is just not pulling it’s climate warming weight…..

    Or is that all the water on Mars is frozen solid under the .. And there is no water vapor in the Martian atmosphere to really get a greenhouse effect going…like we have here on much warmer, much more livable, & much pleasanter, Earth

    By the way this has all been said & written about before. But still the CO2 ‘Climate Warmists’ are still crying ‘Wolf, Wolf, Wolf ’ at rising CO2 here in order to scare us…Dopiness abounds..

    And unfortunately it looks like our own local member has also decided to believe it as well…

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    Hanrahan

    The Donald is no lightweight internationally, in spite of the dem’s claim that he is considered a buffoon.

    By James Delingpole Dec 30.

    Global warming may be off the agenda at the G20 summit. If it is, we know exactly whom to thank.
    According to the green publication Clean Technica, in an article headlined “G20 Nations Reportedly Set to Kowtow to Trump on Climate Change”:

    A reported draft version of a communique being formulated by leaders of the G20 in advance of the 13th meeting of Group of Twenty to be held in Buenos Aires, Argentina, starting Friday, fails to back the 2015 Paris Climate Agreement and makes no mention of the publication of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s (IPCC) Special Report on Global Warming of 1.5°C which warned that “Limiting global warming to 1.5°C would require rapid, far-reaching and unprecedented changes in all aspects of society.”

    Further, the draft nods in the direction of those countries intent on defending their continued use of coal, saying that there are “varied” energy choices and “different possible national pathways.”

    Further highlighting the weakening stance of G20 nations’ willingness to stand up to climate obstructionists like the United States and Australia, there is no mention of the IPCC’s Special Report on Global Warming of 1.5°C which was published earlier this year and which warned that “Limiting global warming to 1.5°C would require rapid, far-reaching and unprecedented changes in all aspects of society.”

    There is also no mention of the upcoming COP24 climate talks to be held in Katowice, Poland, starting a day after the G20 meeting ends on Saturday.

    More at
    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/11/30/trump-forces-climate-change-off-the-menu-at-g20-summit/

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