JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


Handbooks

The Skeptics Handbook

Think it has been debunked? See here.

The Skeptics Handbook II

Climate Money Paper


Advertising

micropace


GoldNerds

The nerds have the numbers on precious metals investments on the ASX



Archives

Update On Joanne’s Tour

By David Evans

Joanne’s talk at the European Institute for Climate and Energy’s (German acronym EIKE) 12th International Climate and Energy Conference in Munich was well-received, she reports. It was live streamed, but I cannot find it on YouTube yet. (If anyone finds it, or something else interesting at the conference, email me and I’ll post it.) Here’s a description beforehand of the conference in English.

Munich

She met with lots of the organizers and speakers, and — paraphrasing — reports that they are aware of us and like us here in Australia, but kind of forget about us, though they are always impressed when they notice us.

Apparently the German audience was very interested to hear that Australia is making a contest of it with Germany, into who can plunge fastest and furthest into climate economic-suicide. There seems to be some notion that the Germans are doing it partly out of a sense of guilt from WWII, incredibly enough — surely it’s past time to dispel that sense? Also out of a sense of duty, they say. Our excuse? Just general virtue signaling and feeling wealthy on the part of our opinion-forming elites I suppose, coupled with a complete lack of due diligence.

She’s off to Norway for a talk today, then to London where she will be delivering a talk at GWPF entitled “How to Destroy a Perfectly Good Electricity Grid in Three Easy Steps”.

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 9.6/10 (84 votes cast)
Update On Joanne's Tour, 9.6 out of 10 based on 84 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/yc2l2cwa

286 comments to Update On Joanne’s Tour

  • #
    Gordon

    Good luck, hope all goes well!

    121

  • #
    NB

    Funny how our national image is so important to statists in some cases, but looking like absolute fruitcakes is just fine when it comes to our electricity supply.

    250

    • #
      WXcycles

      Well put, Australia’s greatest threat is its internal fifth-columnists who are merely masquerading as left-wing ‘progressives’, it’s not external expansionism or revisionism that’s our greatest threat.

      231

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        “There seems to be some notion that the Germans are doing it partly out of a sense of guilt from WWII, incredibly enough — surely it’s past time to dispel that sense?”

        I have no idea why…..we have forgiven the German people for something their forefathers did. I recall a tour of Dachau we did, the German law student who was the volunteer guide, was amazed we had forgiven them, and he couldn’t understand why they ( his younger generation ) should need to apologize to current generation.

        Anyway, committing financial Hari Kiri because some demented and truly evil previous generations is only allowing the evil of the past wreak its havoc on the cutrrent generations.

        Satan is described in the Bible as a ( amongst other labels ) as a “joy thief”.
        If he can steal the current generations joy, well that would fit within his modus operandii.
        Don’t let it happen.

        113

        • #
          shannon

          Your experience with German people apologising for their role in past Wars..is indeed true..

          I have had the same experience, when I finally met my “pen friends” of 50yrs, in Germany a few years ago….

          Really sad that Germans in general, are STILL feeling guilty about the past..

          No wonder they were easily “conned” into ….”opening the borders and their wallets ” !

          120

          • #
            Gerry, England

            Countries that had the pleasure of the Germans come and stay for a few years do still hold a hatred and resentment of them. I know this from having travelled around, made friends and work colleagues in countries such as Norway and the Netherlands. From an English prospective, other than the Channel Islands, we fought the Germans but never suffered their occupation. Having never been there, I am unable to say how the Channel Islanders think of them.

            100

            • #
              Phil R

              Hope this is on topic. I (think I)
              understand and agree with your comment. However, I’m in the U.S. and was not around during WWII (my dad joined the Navy at the end when he was 17, and we were proud of him). I was born in 1959, after Korea and just in time to grow up during the Viet Nam war. Anyway, my comment/question is, you may never have been occupied, but the German attacks with the V-1′s and especially the V-2′s did enormous amounts of damage. England may never have been occupied by the Germans, but it wasn’t from lack of trying. It was from shear English courage and bravery. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it…

              51

              • #
                Another Ian

                Phil

                Find yourself a copy of John Steinbeck’s “Once there was a War” and have a read. Particularly the ones he sent from England like “The People of Dover”

                10

            • #
              Graeme No.3

              Gerry, England:

              Mixed reaction. They damn near starved at the end of the War but the German Commandant released the Red Cross parcels – when they finally arrived – exclusively for the inhabitants. Many shared the food with the German soldiers anyway out of compassion not agreement with their presence. Wild scenes of celebration when the War ended.

              It should be noted that there were roughly occupied with 1 soldier per 5 inhabitants, a very high ratio which made resistance close to impossible.

              20

          • #

            The guilt is constantly being refreshed in the media. Anybody who argues that the past must not be forgotten so that it will not be repeated and that guilt is counter-productive because it over-simplifies the past, is shouted down by the mobs and criticised in the dominant state-run media through insinuations of supporting neo-Nazi beliefs.

            It’s the big lever that is being available because the history taught in German schools lacks the depth necessary to explore the causes.

            Pulling that lever; ironically to commit crimes against humanity by a wanton denial of freedoms, ownership of property, mobility and the availability of affordable energy to displace human labour. It’s quite often overlooked that Germans are people too; just like other Western Europeans who rebuilt largely stable and free nations after WW2; with opportunities for innovation and prosperity. Those in the EU have been cast under the arbitrary rule of an unelected tyranny.

            If you can make the masses feel, they don’t think. They become the mobs that are led by irrational motivation.

            100

            • #
              scaper...

              I like the German people. They have nothing these days to be guilty about.

              90

            • #
              Tel

              It’s the big lever that is being available because the history taught in German schools lacks the depth necessary to explore the causes.

              All they need to do is admit that the root problem has always been caused by socialism.

              Not a huge amount of depth required, but might be a little inconvenient to allow people to start thinking along those lines.

              71

            • #
              Tony K

              How the Jewish people can ever forgive the Germans for what was done in WW2 is beyond me.

              11

              • #
                robert rosicka

                Not all Germans were bad , in my mothers village they put two lists on either side of the street , one if you voted for the little dictator the other was if you voted for the other guy .
                You placed your name and address on the list so the authority knew who voted for who .
                Those who crossed the street to vote against were never heard of again ,what would you do ?

                40

      • #
        Ian Knows

        WX,
        What do you mean by the threat of “internal fifth columnists” ??.

        12

        • #
          Dave Ward

          What do you mean by the threat of “internal fifth columnists” ??.

          Outfits like Common Purpose, ICLEI, and the Global Covenant of Mayors, who are all operating behind the scenes (and completely unnoticed by the vast majority). CP used to have the moto “Leading Beyond Authority”, but this seems to have morphed into “We develop leaders who can cross boundaries”, presumably because they were getting concerned at the negative publicity.

          ICLEI and the Global Covenant of Mayors seem to be determined to pursue the UN’s vision of a “Sustainable Future”, regardless of, or in addition to, national government legislation. You can see first hand evidence of this sort of behaviour in the US, where the “Establishment” is doing everything it can to thwart Donald Trump, including illegal activity:
          https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/11/23/environmental-collusion/

          The old saying “It doesn’t matter who you vote for, the government always gets in” could have been coined for this lot.

          110

          • #
            Ian Knows

            Dave,
            But beneath all that are the Freemasons.

            23

          • #

            Common Purpose and other groups working toward “sustainable development” and “global governance” are very real and very well resourced/funded. Agendas 21/30 are very real, very well resourced/funded, because they are UN agendas.

            We can see the results already in the standardisation of all the press (with some squabbles allowed over blue team or red team, for the sake of realism), the smashing of borders and other traditional distinctions, calculated demographic shock…and those trillions frittered on Big Green and its white elephants. War (when it’s polite to mention it) is now popular with the left, the right seems barely to notice stupendous levels of debt fed by money printing and processing. Corporate business and big government are in a Molotov–Ribbentrop marriage, and banks send their dimmest wits off to be PMs, premiers and presidents. When Gillard would say “Big Business is on board”, she didn’t have to think (which was just as well.)

            It’s important that we don’t get distracted by loose references to Freemasons, Templars, Illuminati etc. Such talk is all too often an attempt to mix the absurd with the real, in hopes of tainting well-grounded knowledge of what globalism has already done and well-grounded fears of future damage.

            Free people do not conspire. It is not in their nature. But there are those drawn to conspire because they are not free and conspiracy is very much in their nature. Every hive and herd is, after all, a conspiracy. It would suit these hivers and herders if the whole notion of conspiracy could be reduced to an absurdity. They might even conspire at that.

            50

            • #
              OriginalSteve

              As if to prove the point that there appears to be something very high level being co-ordinated…..?

              How to kill a car industry – focus on electric cars, based on scientifically unprovable climate change….
              So its either a Don Quixote-like madness that has gripped all govts and big biz, or its extreme foolishness ( unlikely for business ), or as always, the House always wins, so a bit of wink and nod to follow game players is OK, as long as the overall plan is being worked out. And it seems it is.

              https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-27/general-motors-sheds-14000-jobs-from-north-america-workforce/10557202

              “General Motors will cut up to 14,000 workers in North America and put five plants up for possible closure as it abandons many of its car models and restructures to focus more on autonomous and electric vehicles.

              Key points:

              * GM’s job losses will largely come from white-collar workers, representing 8,000 jobs
              * The restructure is likely to be followed by Ford, which will also cut its corporate workforce
              * US President Donald Trump urges GM to bring in more work to Ohio, where a plant is at risk of closure

              “The reductions could amount to as much as 8 per cent of GM’s global workforce of 180,000 employees.
              The restructuring reflects the changing US and North American auto markets as manufacturers continue a dramatic shift away from cars toward SUVs and trucks.

              “The reduction includes about 8,000 white-collar employees, or 15 per cent of GM’s North American white-collar workforce.”

              “At the factories, around 3,300 blue-collar workers could lose jobs in Canada and another 2,600 in the US, but some US workers could transfer to truck or SUV factories that are increasing production.

              The company also said it would stop operating two additional factories outside North America by the end of next year, in addition to a previously announced plant closure in Gunsan, South Korea”

              40

              • #

                Others may have a better grasp of finance than do I, but it seems that the wasting of the old car fleet is needed because a new fleet needs to be created to park new debt. So diesel bad, petrol naughty, lithium good. (Never mind where you manufacture. Saving the planet is too urgent for all that election fluff.)

                Big Green, being an enemy of conservation, thrift and common sense, runs on waste. With the global real estate bubble shrinking, debt needs a home; and my guess is that our number 2 expense, cars which degrade much more quickly than brick, are the best fit. You can have cash-for-clunkers or some such scheme every decade.

                Rather like Amazon which, despite aspirations to hyper-efficiency, has never been about profit but about the centralising of retail and gathering of personal data, the car industry is both a support and extension of government. In the last ten years we’ve seen massive state intervention and control into this critical area of the “free” economy, some of it direct, like Obama’s bail-out, some of it indirect, such as manipulation of energy prices.

                Oil prices are being bullied downward right now as part of a geopolitical game. But when that game changes and oil prices can be manipulated upward, even to just mid-2014 levels, maybe Big Battery will have its day. And why not briefly to 2008′s brief peak? At $147, it won’t take long to get some lithium love happening. We’ve seen how deliberately the oil price can be used as a deadly weapon. I can’t see why it won’t be used to talk us into a new fleet of EVs once it’s prudent to start jacking pump prices. Terms available!

                My God, how those terms will be available. Lithium and cobalt they may have to conquer, in the Congo, in Bolivia, or wherever they can find a human rights issue. But money they can just invent. It only has to exist when the consumer goes to pay it back, right? And that’s the consumer’s problem, right? And the consumer will be perfectly free not to choose a nice EV over his nasty old oiler, right?

                40

          • #

            Take a look at the Trilateral Commission behind the U.N. pervasive Agenda 21 with its aim of bringing in a New World R=Economic Order Economic Order.Founders David Rockefeller and Zbigniew Brzezinski, members include Bill Clinton, George Soros and Al Gore. 9 out of 12 US Trade reps, 6/8 World Bank presidents, 10/12 US national Security Advisers have been Trilateral Members. Its stated policy is to replace the present economic system via energy management to create a controlled society dominated by an elite technocrat management in which Parliamentaery Congress has no place .

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kw5AtHyxNc

            50

            • #
              OriginalSteve

              This is why Marvel is making such a resurgence – IMHO OI think people know full well whats going on, so they escape into these movies thinking they cant resist the globalists…… its a slow motion Stockholm Syndrome at work.

              30

            • #

              “David Rockefeller and Zbigniew Brzezinski, members include Bill Clinton, George Soros and Al Gore.”

              It would be handy if we could just say “the defendants”.

              30

      • #
        Kinky Keith

        The British have collectively understood that, but are having a hard time getting their immediate political masters such as Theresa, to do the right thing.

        Most of us on this blog are aware of and amazed at the Billions of our hard earned Taxes that have gone to the U.N. and associated outliers.

        Little or no due diligence attached or needed.

        Even locally, how can a prime minister move AUD$444 Million dollars to a group of “Businessmen” who are nominally associated with saving the Planet?

        There is something seriously at odds with our Parliament”s Lawful obligation to conduct the running of the country’s basics in a Moral and Legally compliant manner.

        The people who took hundreds of millions of our dollars to this GBR Fund and the Clinton Funds have abused Trust.
        The fact that they have had Australian government authorization simply adds more people to the list to be investigated. What’s being done about this breach of Democratic process: absolutely nothing.

        Regardless of how you name it: misdirection, siphoning, saving the planet, charity fund, it still needs to be seen in its true light:

        TH$FT.

        KK

        70

  • #
    Peter C

    This talk looked interesting;

    “The Experimental Verification of the Greenhouse-Effect
    Dr. Michael Schnell”,

    I am hoping thaty they will post a transcript in English, after the Conference.

    100

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      Will he say that it hasn’t been achieved yet?

      It’d be interesting to see a scale model of the atmosphere.

      KK

      50

    • #
      Environment Skeptic

      Does it come with an experimental verification of the original experimental verification, or just the one experimental verification?

      60

      • #
        Environment Skeptic

        Forgive my obvious re-skepticism. Even the question of water being wet can trigger it. It’s a re-skeptical condition.

        50

        • #
          Phil R

          They say that 97% of climate scientists agree that climate change is real? I don’t think you could get 97% of Italians to agree the Pope is Catholic (or 97% of environmentalists to agree that a bear sh*ts in the woods). Just a skeptical point of view.

          60

    • #
      • #
        AndyG55

        Bottom of page 7 is interesting (quick scan only)

        53

        • #
          Peter C

          Thanks Andy,

          The paper was almost incomprehensible, on my first read through. I will try again later and read over again.

          If I have understood something, it seems to be that atmospheric aerosols have a greater effect on outgoing radiation transfer than “greenhouse gases”.

          50

        • #
          Kinky Keith

          Andy

          Interest reading, Not so much for the conclusions but for the experimental method.

          Extraordinarily complex, which suggests that we need to be careful in giving any credibility to the “results”.

          Maybe I missed it but the real atmosphere has significant pressure variation over it’s height.

          The experiment seemed to have been done at sea level and constant pressure. Also the SB equation was brought out for a run which is an art practiced by pro warmers.

          The most concerning part of the presentation was the lack of a clear pathway for investigation. This is a massive collection of seemingly, loosely related factors without a clear objective and a clear conclusion.

          If the photograph of the cloud dotted sky showing “temperatures” doesn’t make you worried that’s O.K. but I’m not sure what’s actually being measured. Obviously the cloud surface is easy to identify, but the blue sky background may be collecting measurements from somewhere way past the cloud location.
          I would have been happier with balloon measurements.

          Way too complex, which almost suggests that they were trying to cover up the fact that they really didn’t have a clear plan of attack.

          KK

          60

          • #
            Peter C

            I am part way through reading the paper for a second time. It is making more sense now.

            Part 1. refers to laboratory experiments which were reported in a previous paper and only summarised here. We do not (at this stage) have the previous paper. Nor is there a diagram.

            It seems that the laboratory experiments consisted of a chamber with two plates (an Earth plate and an Aerosol plate). The Earth is held at 16C by heating with an electric current and the temperature of the Aerosol plate is cooled somehow and held at various temperatures, down to -18C. The Aerosol plate therefore equates with a level in the atmosphere, say a low cloud layer or a higher level if it is cooled right down.

            The heating current required to keep the Earth plate at 16C is a measure of the heat loss by radiation.

            Radiation heat loss is a maximum when the Aerosol plate is at -18C and the chamber is evacuated. The addition of green house gases reduces the radiation cooling of the Earth plate (Freon being the most effective and Methane the least effective).

            So there is at last, reasonable laboratory evidence that Greenhouse gases can, under ideal conditions and neglecting other effects such as convection, reduce radiation heat loss from a warm surface (Earth).

            Even more, the reduction in radiation cooling by greenhouse gases is an inverse linear function (straight line sloping downwards) of the Aerosol plate temperature. Hence by extrapolation, the effect of greenhouse gases to reduce radiation heat loss is maximum with the Aerosol plate at -273C and reduces to zero if the Aerosol plate is 16C.

            I will summarise parts 2 and 3 later today.

            80

            • #
              Kinky Keith

              Thanks Peter, good outline. It seems that you have isolated some detail which shows that there is some type of effect operating.

              The next step might be to assess the quantitative relevance of All CO2 in the mix of, so called greenhouse gases, and then allocate a quantitative position for Human Origin CO2.

              It would be a very small part of any total effect.

              KK

              41

              • #
                Peter C

                One step at a time Keith,

                This is the first paper I have come across that actually seems to show that greenhouse gases can retard radiative heat loss (like a blanket). The original paper, which gives the details of the experimental apparatus is on the EIKE website but at present I can’t download the full English translation.

                At first glance the experiment seems to be well thought out and it seems to have the resources of a physics department. It has only taken 20 years to get experimental physicists involved.

                How that all fits in with the whole Earth/atmosphere/ocean/land system is a long way away off. So I won’t be completely revising my notions about the Greenhouse Gas Theory just yet.

                90

            • #
              David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

              Thanks Peter C,
              Is there mention of a control atmosphere in the experiment, of say 21% oxygen and 78% nitrogen?
              Cheers,
              Dave B

              70

              • #
                Peter C

                David,
                I am not sure, but there might be. I have not yet been able to read the first paper. I am not sure if the apparatus with No Greenhouse Gas, contains a non greenhouse atmosphere or a vacuum.

                50

            • #
              Peter C

              Continuing my Summary of the paper; “Experimental Verification of the Greenhouse Effect” from #3.3.1.2.1

              The purpose of the Earth plate in the experimental setup is to simulate the radiation of the Earth and the Aerosol plate (as they call it) simulates the radiation of a cloud layer. Greenhouse gases act as a foreground emitter and the cloud layer is a background emitter. If the cloud (background emitter) is at about the same temperature as the Earth, the effect of greenhouse gases is nearly zero, because there is no radiation transfer from the Earth to the cloud.

              If the cloud is cold (high cloud), greenhouse gases also inhibit radiation from the cloud to the ground. Because of this the authors question the manta that low clouds cool the Earth but high clouds warm the Earth. High clouds still reflect a lot of sunlight during the day but the night time warming is greatly reduced by greenhouse gases. Hence, in the authors opinion, high clouds also cool the Earth!

              Part 2 of the paper, goes on to examine the “Cloud Free Sky- the radiation of Invisible Aerosols)

              According to Wikipaedia and modern meteorologists (referenced), only greenhouse gases contribute to counter radiation (downwelling) from a clear sky.

              The paper discusses several lines of evidence which contradict that assertion:
              1. Temperate measurements of a clear sky, using an IR thermometer which has a filter restricting it to the transparent greenhouse window (8-14microns) show gradient from the horizon to the zenith. Greenhouse gases should extinguish in a few tens of meters so something else, which saturates over a much greater distance, is returning radiation in the atmosphere,
              2. Temperature measurements of the surface from space over clear sky areas using similar instruments are always less than the actual surface measurements. Water vapour plays a role. Over moist tropical regions the measured temperatures are 13C less than the ground temperatures, but even over the dry Sahara the decrease is still 8-9C.
              3. In like manner the downward measurement of the temperature of water surfaces by aircraft and helicopters are too low but by a lesser amount (2-3C),

              4. Calculations of the radiative effects of water vapour and CO2 do not explain the measured temperature differences.

              Consequently the authors propose that invisible aerosols (dust, pollen etc) are responsible for a lot of the so called greenhouse effect, maybe more than half!

              60

            • #
              Peter C

              Continuing my Summary of the paper; “Experimental Verification of the Greenhouse Effect” from #3.3.1.2.1

              Part 3. The IR Counterradiation under Clouds.

              Part three is shorter. It examines the counter radiation of clouds and water vapour and aerosols. Clouds really reduce the outgoing radiation, which is no surprise. The counter radiation of 100% water vapour is only 5% of the total in the presence of a cloud layer.

              The angular dependence of measured IR temperature of the sky is greatly reduced in the presence of cloud which is again taken as evidence of aerosol activity.

              Overall I found it a difficult paper to read and try to comprehend.

              The message seems to be that atmospheric non visible aerosols are responsible for half of the greenhouse effect, not the gases. Clouds are responsible for most of the rest.

              I remember that Will Janoska said much the same thing. He was ahead of his time.

              The authors like the counterradiation (back radiation) concept. That probably
              does not matter. Radiation transfer due to difference in temperature amounts to the same thing.

              I am, hoping to read the first paper sometime soon.

              50

              • #
                Kinky Keith

                Thanks again Peter.

                Will had a point of view that was shaped by the needs of his work in studying the transmission of communications over long distances through the atmosphere.

                The makeup of the atmospheric layers is extremely complex but the only things that control the loss of energy to space are;

                1. The temperature difference between the surface, approx 13 °C and that of surrounding space at about 1C° above absolute zero, ie about Minus 272°C.

                2. Heat received and held during daylight and heat “lost” at night.
                Human Origin CO2 is such a small, bit player, in heat retention and movement in the atmosphere.

                Without the Sunrise each day our Planet would be a frozen wasteland within 48 hours.

                CO2 is not a magical insulation blanket.

                KK

                130

              • #
                KinkyKeith

                Just in case we lose sight of something in all this discussion about atmospheric CO2 levels, it might be timely for a reminder on how it is really for most living things, The Gas Of Life.
                From an earlier post:

                http://joannenova.com.au/2013/09/plants-suck-half-the-co2-out-of-the-air-around-them-before-lunchtime-each-day/#comment-1321691

                Now I know this has nothing to do with how CO2 is supposed to cause Global Warming but it does show that possibly CO2 should be seen as the gas of life.
                An addition to the link which I found on later reading: once a person has moved into the end of life breathing pattern they do not like to be spoken to or touched. I cant remember why this is known but I suspect that there are people who have started to go and for some reason have come back to consciousness.

                Another Point: the breathing pattern I saw was not Cheyne Stokes but individuals may vary in what actually happens. In the end with this sort of passing, it is alkylosis or over oxygenation of the blood that ends us.

                KK

                10

  • #
    Geoff

    I can’t imagine that Germany is destroying its economy with high power prices because they feel guilty over WW 1 & 2. This is just an excuse for doing something they know is utterly stupid but are unable to confront the issue as its sustaining their lifestyle now by robbing from someone else’s in the future. That is how inflation works. Making everything more expensive by increasing its cost, slowly, goes unnoticed by the people making the decision. They can afford it as there are no consequences to them. They collect payments and the increases in those payments by legal force, taxes.

    It will all go wrong in the future. A few of them know this. They hide the inflation in complex jargon and political rhetoric and fear mongering. Their hope is they get through their lives without having to pay up.

    Then there are those that actually believe this stuff. The storm troopers of the climate brigade. They will not hesitate to obey orders to “save” the fourth Reich. We are training this lot from birth.

    210

    • #
      TdeF

      Sure, guilt over WW2 and altruism

      At least half of the big windmills are German, even the GE ones. It’s a huge business.
      The desalination plants are French (and we will still be paying for 25 years).

      Top 10 Wind Turbine Suppliers
      Enercon. Germany. 10.1%
      Siemens. Germany. 8.0% …
      Sulzon Group. India. 6.3% …(The company’s larger offices, design and R&D teams are located in India, Germany, Denmark and The Netherlands)
      GE Wind Energy U.S. (German manufacturer Tacke in 1997) 4.9% …
      SiemensGamesa. Spain. 4.6% …
      United Power. China. 3.9% …(Germany/France/Shanghai)
      Ming Yang. China. 3.7%
      Nordex. Germany

      180

    • #
      Ross

      Guilt over world war 2? I don’t think so. Let’s think about it for a moment.
      Oh yeah, mitigating the effects of man made global warming. That thing all the worlds scientists warn us about.
      Yeah, I reckon that might just be the reason. Common sense.

      530

      • #
        AndyG55

        What “man made global warming” ??

        The only warming in the last 40 years has come form El Nino events.

        These have ZERO human forcing.

        No warming from 1980-1997

        https://i.postimg.cc/fyv8vcRh/RSS_V4_before_El_Nino.png

        No warming from 2001-2015

        https://i.postimg.cc/SxQy4C6M/RSS_V4_2001_-_2015.png

        And absolutely ZERO empirical evidence that atmospheric CO2 causes any warming at all.

        The ONLY “man made” warming is from data fabrication and manipulation.

        343

        • #
          TdeF

          Plus there is scientific proof that the CO2 increase is not man made, the fundamental conjecture of man made Global Warming. The truth is that warming the oceans does increase aerial CO2. This has been reversed to pretend something which is demonstrably not true.

          131

      • #
        AndyG55

        “Common sense.”?

        You have no knowledge of “common sense” at all.

        You are mindlessly gullible, incapable of rational thought.

        113

        • #
          Another Ian

          Said before.

          Find yourself a copy of John Prine’s album “Common Sense” and chech the track of the same name.

          It is my nomination for themesong of the 21st century.

          Refrain is “It don’t make no sense that common sense don’t make no sense no more”

          70

      • #
        James Murphy

        Ross, if you were being reasonable, you’d admit that it’s not “all the worlds scientists”.

        How do you explain that?

        111

      • #
        Tel

        That thing all the worlds scientists warn us about.

        Dishonest sod.

        120

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        Let’s not be foolish Ross. WWII has been over for far too long for anyone now alive in Germany to have any guilt for it.

        Man made global warming is a separate issue over which you have made a few foolish statements if I remember correctly. Does that make you guilty of WWII? I don’t think so.

        40

      • #

        Ross,

        You are wrong.

        The guilt has been transferred generationally by the media and politics.

        Germans are urged to be “good people” by making (personal) sacrifices. They are made to feel obligated to lead the world in saving the world from itself; obligated by the sins of the fathers.

        120

      • #
        Latus Dextro

        Ross:

        …all the worlds scientists warn us about.

        I wondered how long it would take you to go from 97% to 100%.
        ‘The bigger the lie…’ etc…

        00

  • #
    Latus Dextro

    It was live streamed, but I cannot find it on YouTube yet.

    Really? Are we suuurrrprised?
    Conservative, and climatism sceptical voices are censored as a matter of routine.
    I searched, equally with no success. It seems to me, either it was posted or it was not.
    Default or simul-post on BitShute or Gab:ai, if only as an insurance.
    Joanne’s Tour is way too important to bury, delay or censor.
    Alternative platforms will reach the audience while simultaneously highlighting an alternative avenue for free speech denied by the Silicon Valley oligarchs and their corporatist eco-Marxist globalists.
    Meantime, the UN AGW push has ramped up to full blown hysterical fear mongering courtesy of a compliant MSM and Jo’s address could not have been timed better.

    We’re in a damned globalist / nationalist war, whether we like it or not.
    We must play like we mean to win.

    220

  • #
    Environment Skeptic

    Some impressive snow around those mountain peaks in the background.

    150

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      Evidence of Global Warming.

      110

    • #
      Yonniestone

      All sound a bit Freudian really…….

      30

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Watching the series “Might Ships” tonight, a captain on a huge freighter ship on the great lakes in northern USA made a joke about the amount of ice in march, and clearly out loud mocked the concept of global warming…..

        Funny how people who work outdoors for a living can tell you straight up – global warming is nonsense…..

        180

  • #
    Ross

    “How to Destroy a Perfectly Good Electricity Grid in Three Easy Steps”.
    Someone tell her that fear mongering is so last year. Think Victorian election.
    Try offering something positive to the world, little Jo.

    450

    • #

      Thanks for that attempted lame put down of our host Ross. It shows real class. (NOT)

      Perhaps Joanne could shoot down that age old fallacy that renewable power is cheaper than coal fired power with some actual facts using current data.

      I know that some of you would like some ammunition to support an argument with the green followers that wind power is NOT cheaper than coal fired power, so if you ever need a reference for something like that, I have a new Post at my home site detailing just that, and it’s at the following link.

      Is Wind Power Actually Cheaper Than Coal Fired Power? Well, No!

      That is most definitely not fear mongering as Ross flamed Joanne with, but the actual facts of the matter.

      Tony.

      452

      • #
        PeterPetrum

        Tony, great article and very useful.

        I noted a small, but important error. You say -

        “1100MW from wind versus 17800GWH from the coal fired plant.”

        I think that should read “1100GWH from wind versus …. “

        Tell me if I am wrong, but thanks agin.

        140

        • #

          Thanks Peter.

          Change happening now.

          No matter how many times you proof read, the brain still registers what it thinks it should be.

          Tony.

          190

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            Tony, this should givbe you a laugh…..Victoriastan is embarking on major building works. I wonder how they will keep the lights on?

            The last bit about fracking is a concern – thats a kick to the head for energy independence, as we’d expect in the glorious Soviet Republic of Victoriastan…

            Victoria is now officially cactus. Its South Australias big brother.

            https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-26/victorian-election-what-voters-expect-dan-andrews/10550054

            “Does the environment get anything?

            There’s quite a bit going on in this space.
            If you’re an outdoor type, then you’ll probably be pretty pleased with the extra $105 million for better campgrounds and hiking trails.

            Fees in state and national parks will also be halved.

            There will also be new rebates and discounts for solar panels, hot water systems and battery storage.
            ………….
            “The government’s also promised to put the fracking ban, which already exists in legislation, into the constitution so that it would be extremely difficult for any future government to unpick.”

            50

      • #
        ColA

        Tony, your post is an excellent start, clear and concise BUT not finished!
        The RE delusionals are always gushing about wind energy being “FREE”, and indeed the wind is free as they only have to maintain the bird choppers (cost of bird deaths not accounted) there would be figures for this! I know the biggest problem/breakdown they have is the main turbine bearings and figures I have seen is 12 – 15 years bearing life!
        As an engineer doing PFS and DFS for a long time, I can tell you there is always 2 costs to consider – the CAPEX and the OPEX – the Capital cost to build the plant and the Operational costs to run the plant. Now it doesn’t take too much thought to realize the Operating costs for a HELE plant will be many times the wind plant – true and undeniable!

        But where wind (and solar) ALWAYS FAILS is RELIABILITY – It dose not matter how much wind power you generate because it is UNPREDICTABLE – you must install reliable power to back it up, that is the failure of wind and solar and that is the main point that the conservatives must clearly push. Push the logic – if I have to back it up why build it at all?

        Victorians just gave Andrews a huge mandate to waste 15 BILLION on batteries – did you hear any clear argument from the wishy washy Libs??
        Did you hear any Lib saying “For 15 Billion we could build 5 HELE plants and SOLVE the whole countries energy problems for the next 50 years!!” – CRICKETS! .. CRICKETS!

        And the Federals will do WORSE if they don’t grow a pair and start to state their energy policies clearly, they just got well and truly pineappled by short-a-ton taking the NEG and the initiative!

        170

      • #
        rk

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEJ2bBpy7pk TONY FROM OZ If you haven’t seen this – a presentation by Professor Valentina Zharkova on a new GRand Solar Minimum

        40

    • #
      AndyG55

      No the AGW fearmongering is well and truly alive.

      Last IPCC report

      Recent US climate report

      Basically every climate report on the MSM.

      All based on ABSOLUTELY ZERO EVIDENCE

      Come on Ros, maybe you can be the one to find empirical evidence that atmospheric CO2 causes warming, or any other sort of climate effect

      The REAL scientific evidence is TOTALLY LACKING.

      282

    • #
      Annie

      I dislike your rudeness to our host Ross. An apology to her would be in order.

      201

    • #

      Er, Ross, we know the most appalling people and factions win elections. After some years of Turnbull, Frydenberg and Bishop we’re not surprised that the corporate/media boosters of Green Blob have had yet another win. Who better to boost now than cynical Labor?

      I actually feel sorry for Labor foot-sloggers and even the GetUp drudges who toil away gratis in the belief that they are working for conservation and working people, rather than for green carpetbaggers and snobby oligarchs who think conservation is a joke and working people are vote-fodder.

      Sorry I couldn’t be more positive, Ross. But at least you’re here and reading Jo.

      Please note that I did not address you as “little Ross”.

      172

      • #
        Ross

        Mosomoso. You forgot Abbott.
        I feel sorry for the Liberal Base. The past couple of years have presented them with an ugly realisation. They are a small rump, whose thinking resonates no further than the half empty school hall which they angrily sit in.
        Hope, not hate.
        Cheers.
        Little Ross

        517

        • #
          Analitik

          Yeah, Abbott has a firm track record of being completely wrong – like smooth integration of the Middle Eastern/North African refugee influx into Europe.

          112

        • #
          AndyG55

          Getting rid of Turnbull was a small first step to recovery from the leftist infestation.

          Many weeds still to uproot.

          Why are you so scared that TA will come back.

          Maybe the THRASHING Labor got last time he went to an election. !!!

          153

        • #
          AndyG55

          “Hope, not hate.”

          Yes, you should stop bringing your leftist hate with your comments.

          But its part of you, so you can’t.

          Are you Antifa or GetUp!

          93

          • #
            Kinky Keith

            It’s just word play but, let’s try;

            Getifa or Antup.

            GetAnt or Upifa.

            All four about as relevant as the originals.

            10

        • #

          No, Ross. I didn’t forget Abbott. Though not at all a fan, I distinguish him from the others in that he is not a total cynic and globalist tool. Gillard, Turnbull, Bishop and Shorten are total cynics and globalist tools. Toss in Frydenberg. Hope that clears up the distinction I made.

          Big Green is just the pointy end of globalism, which is a reinvention of last century’s obscene collectivisms. We can see by the trillions of sheer waste by Big Green that conservation is the last thing on the minds of its boosters. I appreciate that those foot-sloggers and drudges I mentioned may be conservationists – which would give them something in common with me – but they are working for a world run by technocrats controlled by lobbyists for the benefit of plutocrats.

          If you are in GetUp, join GetOut as fast as you can.

          121

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Ross;
      I see they are installing diesels in Vic. in preparation for the inevitable. Why are we installing variable generation when the largest cheapest storage won’t be available before 2024 (if then)?

      150

      • #

        Ultimately, that’s Big Green in Oz. Burn borrowed money to build white elephants and burn imported diesel to replace the coal you’re not replacing. Good for lenders, good for Big Oil, good for Big Green. Not so good for Oz.

        180

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          That’s socialism.

          Maybe even the lunatic left have enough compassion such that they don’t want their kids to freeze to death,
          in the coming LIA that mathematician Valentina Zhakova is predicting…..

          90

      • #
        TdeF

        So diesel is Greener than coal? In fact it is very dirty, which is why diesel is being banned or taxed in most of Europe. That’s why the French are marching in their thousands in the Champs Elysees and blocking freeways across the country. Diesel produces lots of Nitrous Oxide from the high compression. That turns into extremely nasty Nitric acid on contact with water. Acid rain. Just when we solved the sulphur problems.

        160

        • #
          TdeF

          To be clear, the French people are now being told to pay diesel entry tolls in most big cities on the very diesel cars they were told to buy. How wrong can you be?

          150

          • #
            TdeF

            Also that is the core problem with Volkswagen/Audi and everyone else. They lied when they said NO2 output was tolerable. Until you put your foot down.

            140

          • #
            shannon

            Im waiting for owners of our ” city army of 4×4″ to realise they are about to get seriously slugged $$$$$$ with the NEXT round of the Global Emission Agreement !

            80

            • #
              Dennis

              The latest Isuzu diesel engine installed here in D-Max and MU-X models achieves Euro 5 Standard comfortably, and was redesigned for harsh Australian outback conditions.

              30

              • #
                Tdef

                Love to know how they do it. The nitrous oxides would be inavoidable. So perhaps it is an active filter system?

                20

              • #
                Graeme#4

                Theft, I have heard that some diesel powered vehicles are fitted with a urine tank that is refilled every service. Perhaps others can verify this.

                30

              • #
                Graeme#4

                Sorry Tdef, blasted auto-correct took over…

                20

              • #
                TdeF

                Urine trouble. Or are you just kidney?

                40

              • #
                Graeme No.3

                Re Graeme #4:

                Nitrous oxides dissolve in water to form nitrous acid (unstable to heat). Urea in the solution would react with nitrous acid to give nitrogen and carbon dioxide:

                50

              • #
                Graeme#4

                Tdef: Love it! (This time auto-correct tried to convert you to Trev.)
                Graeme No. 3: Ahh, that’s how it works. So I’m not just pi**ing in the wind.

                30

              • #
                TdeF

                FIrstly, great solution, urea. Simple. Secondly, perhaps the smelliest solution, a bottle of liquid urine, presumably through which the exhaust must bubble perhaps using wet filters and a recycling pump.

                It would be a new smell in a garage.

                Lastly, it has to be replaced regularly which at least might be cheaper than the catalytic converter solution where the replacement is a major repair which can cost thousands.

                The question is whether this simple solution can be retrofitted to the millions of diesels currently on the road pouring out NO2. This is a major cause of the riots in France and an immediate solution for the suffering French and all countries, far cheaper than all the city taxes and environmentally acceptable.

                30

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                MIT were developing a high voltage plasma solution to reduce NOx and SOx , and then the tech was bought out and it went quiet…..I think it was old off or maybe canned because it was too good?

                https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/10/031022061155.htm

                “CAMBRIDGE, Mass. — A bus in Indiana is the latest laboratory for MIT’s plasmatron reformer, a small device its developers believe could significantly cut the nation’s oil consumption as well as noxious emissions from a variety of vehicles.

                The work will be the subject of an invited talk next Thursday, October 30, at a meeting of the American Physical Society’s Division of Plasma Physics in Albuquerque, NM.

                The researchers and colleagues from industry also reported plasmatron advances at a U.S. Department of Energy Diesel Engine Emissions Reduction (DEER) meeting in August. There they reported that the device, used with an exhaust treatment catalyst on a diesel engine bus, removed up to 90 percent of nitrogen oxides (NOx) from the bus’s emissions. Nitrogen oxides are the primary components of smog.

                The plasmatron reformer also cut in half the amount of fuel needed for the removal process. “The absorption catalyst approach under consideration for diesel exhaust NOx removal requires additional fuel to work,” explained Daniel R. Cohn, one of the leaders of the team and head of the Plasma Technology Division at MIT’s Plasma Science and Fusion Center (PSFC). “The plasmatron reformer reduced that amount of fuel by a factor of two compared to a system without the plasmatron.”

                Cohn noted that the plasmatron reformer also allowed the NOx absorption catalyst to be effective at the low exhaust temperatures characteristic of urban use.

                These results indicate that the plasmatron reformer, in conjunction with an NOx absorber catalyst, could be one of the most promising ways to meet stricter emissions limits for all heavy trucks and buses. The Environmental Protection Agency plans to institute the new limits by 2007.

                “Diesel-engine vehicles generally do not have exhaust treatment systems,” Cohn said, adding that treating diesel exhaust is much more difficult than gasoline exhaust.

                Under development for the last six years, the plasmatron is an onboard “oil reformer” that converts a variety of fuels into high-quality, hydrogen-rich gas. Adding a relatively modest amount of such gas to the gasoline powering a car or to a diesel vehicle’s exhaust is known to have benefits for cutting the emissions of pollutants. “Prior to the plasmatron reformer development, there was no attractive way to produce that hydrogen on board,” said Cohn.

                His colleagues are Leslie Bromberg (who will give next week’s APS talk) and Alexander Rabinovich of the PSFC; John Heywood, director of MIT’s Sloan Automotive Lab and the Sun Jae Professor of Mechanical Engineering; and Rudolf M. Smaling, a graduate student in the Engineering Systems Division. Smaling is an engineering manager from ArvinMeritor, a major automotive and heavy truck components company that has licensed the plasmatron technology from MIT. The bus engine tests were performed at the company’s facility in Columbus, Ind., by an ArvinMeritor team.”

                20

              • #
                TdeF

                One of the problems with high voltage plasma is that it creates new molecules too, notably O3 or ozone which is a known carcinogen. You can get it from photocopiers. People used to think it was beneficial, as with the Hotel Ozone, the steamer Ozone. Then they thought radiation was beneficial too and took Radon treatments. Electrocution was popular too.

                So the plasmatron may have been abandoned because while it reduced NO2, it caused more problems than it fixed. Urea sounds a good passive zero power solution but does turn your car into a skunk works.

                30

        • #
          J Martin

          Mercedes Benz have a diesel engine in some of their cars that is cleaner than any petrol or hybrid car. If they were to lease that technology to other diesel car manufacturers then it will be petrol and hybrids that would need to be taxed out of existence.

          41

        • #

          TdeF I normally go along with your comments but you are wrong about diesel engines. You are accepting the crap from greens. NOx is the result of high temperature combustion. It can be reduced by operating close to zero excess oxygen and having unburnt material. Diesel engines run at lower temperature than petrol engines. One true complaint about diesel is that a badly tuned engine can emit black smoke particularly at start up and rapid acceleration when the engine is close to idle in slow or stopped traffic. Petrol and LPG engines which run at higher temperature are more likely to produce NOx. A boiler convert from coal or heavy oil to natural gas is more likely to produce NOx. The smog around some cities like LA is due to petrol cars not diesel. The exhaust from diesel engines is easier to clean up. Most mines still run diesel vehicles under ground. All the many I have been down mines including numerous coal mines ran diesel vehicles. The exhaust went through a water filter to remove unburnt carbon particles. I saw the maintenance area underground in the Mt Isa mine which was flood lit and air conditioned. It was spotless and had clean white walls. Other advantages of diesel in Australia are that it is much safer than petrol form explosions, the aborgines do not sniff it, it is more economical in vehicles especially in trucks, and it should be cheaper in refining and transport than petrol except for stupid taxes. The Greens lie about subsidies. No coal, diesel, fuel oil or natural gas is subsidised. Fuel used in underground mines rightly should not be taxed for road use.
          For large diesel engines such as in ships or used for electricity generation (eg the engines at Broken Hill) can actually use fuel oil which is heated by the exhaust to improve injection.

          30

      • #
        ColA

        Andrews will sell Victoria to China for 15 billion in AA batteries better get started with Safe Schools training hot the Chinese good behavior card works!!

        62

      • #
        Ross

        Sounds like transition to me, J.
        All good.

        27

    • #
    • #
      robert rosicka

      Seems the red thumbs have it Ross, if you want fear mongering look no further than the IPCC and MSM .

      21

  • #
    Jeff

    Germany has a very good excuse – they manufacture and export worldwide large amounts of solar panels and inverters and other renewable power hardware.
    Unlike Australia.

    110

    • #
      TdeF

      Soon we will not make steel in electric arc furnaces, our biggest single recycling effort. In the US 75% of all steel is recycled. Bluescope has warned that they will have to close if they cannot get cheaper electricity. So our CO2 will soar as we are forced to buy steel from original manufacturers who have to reduce iron ore with our coking coal.

      The only plastics recycler in South Australia closed last year because of electricity costs. Soon we will have no recycling, thanks to the Greens.

      200

      • #
        TdeF

        The totally science ignorant Greens including Australian leader Richard di Natale say that mining and selling and exporting coal should be banned completely except for making steel?

        What? This is not mixing, it is chemistry. All smelting involves not only the massive heat in the furnace from burning coal but raw carbon in the form of coke for reducing the steel from Fe2O3 to raw Fe + CO2. The move from wood carbon (charcoal) to coal carbon (coke) ushered in the steel age, the second half of the iron age. Prior to that we could only make cast iron in volume.

        The same reduction is needed for aluminium, lead and all other metals which exist in the ground as oxides and have to have the oxygen removed by carbon.

        Then if the Greens understood any science, they would have to admit they were wrong on just about everything. All living things are made from CO2 and H2O and precious little else. One of these controls our weather and it is not CO2.

        131

  • #
    Phillip Bratby

    It will be very interesting to see Josh’s cartoons from the event.

    70

  • #
    Greg in NZ

    https://www.foto-webcam.eu/webcam/grossglockner/

    Live webcam link to European Alps and environs, just ‘up the hill’ from where Jo is: -15˚C at Austria’s highest glacier, Großglockner, with no shortage of early-winter snowfall on the tops. It’s been freezing and snowing on Victoria and NSW’s peaks, NZ is in for its 4th snowstorm this month of Snovember, the USA had its coldest Thanksgiving Day EVAH!!! Arctic sea ice volume is back to ‘normal’ – http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/icethickness/thk.uk.php – it’s snowing in California, but hey, apart from that, we’re DOOMED! Roll on summer…

    110

    • #
      Annie

      Beautiful, isn’t it? Thanks for the link. Happy memories from many years ago!

      31

    • #
      sophocles

      Greg in NZ points out

      NZ is in for its 4th snowstorm this month of Snovember,

      and forgets to mention for all the NH readers that our Summer starts in just four days time, before the end of this week.
      :-)

      Auckland is at about the lattitude of Gibralter and Invercargill, the southern most city, is at about the equivalent lattitude of Normandy, France. Does it snow in Normandy? Apparently it did on April 30th. this year. Snow in NZ at the end of November is the equivalent of snow in Normandy at the end of May. Global Warming? Hmph. If it’s man-made, then man didn’t make a very good job of it.

      So little Ross, where is all that man-made global warming gone? FYI: the annual average temperature of NZ has been more or less constant at 12.5°C +/- a few decimal points since 1850 … we’re the land Global Warming forgot.
      I could have been interested in your arguments, your reasoning/discussion, and especially your evidence
      Instead, we got a Patronising Hit and Run. Until you prove you are worth taking seriously, you will be treated as a JAT (Just Another Troll). You can see how Andy likes Trolls.

      Or do you want to participate?

      120

      • #
        dinn, rob

        On the Ross Ice Shelf, the largest ice shelf in Antarctica, scientists are eavesdropping on the ice as it “sings.”
        Credit: Michael Van Woert, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Association (NOAA) NESDIS, ORA
        https://www.livescience.com/63872-singing-ice-in-antarctica.html

        40

      • #
        AndyG55

        (Snipped the off topic chatter) CTS

        71

      • #
        el gordo

        Sophocles we don’t have to rely on temperature variations to make a point, when direct observation will suffice.

        The First Fleet on its journey to Botany Bay in 1788 noticed snow on Tasmania’s high country at the height of summer. Climate change is a cyclic phenomenon, yet remains chaotic because of the variables.

        70

        • #
          TdeF

          Perhaps that’s not Climate Change but Climate variation? The original scare was rapid, tipping point, runaway Global Warming and rapid sea rise caused by man made CO2. After thirty years we can say that none of this is true, but climates can vary and even change over time. The only question is whether such subtle changes and variations are man made and the answer to that question is no. We are insignificant. Gaia does not even know we are here.

          40

          • #
            el gordo

            Climate variation won’t win elections, we need something a little stronger to shake the foundations of their beliefs.

            The other day the Victorians voted in freezing weather and nobody thought to question why spending $15 billion on batteries is a lame response to climate change.

            10

  • #
    Peter C

    No Weekend Unthreaded, this week, so here goes.

    I am trying to understand what happened in the Victorian Election this week, ending yesterday.

    The Libs made mistakes, and I myself had them as my second choice in the expectation that my preference would go to them.

    However I was not prepared for the swing to Labor, given the corruption, Union control and financial mismanagement and wanton expansion of state debt. It seems that none of that matters for a majority of voters.

    100

    • #
      PeterS

      The LNP is losing credibility and is imploding because of the war between the left and conservatives at both state and federal levels. Let’s face it – the LNP doesn’t know which way it’s going; right, left, middle, all over. The only thing Morrison can do before the next federal election is to tell all the leftists within the party to “talk to the hand” and go full speed ahead announcing a promise to get rid of all RETs and renewables subsides to cut electricity bills by at least half, assist in bolstering existing coal fired plans for the longer term (just as Trump has done) and cut immigration by half. Anything less and Morrison is a total waste of space.

      190

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        Good luck, PeterS.
        I have given up on the Liberals. I think that they have to split into the leftists and the conservatives. The former will wind up as the third choice for voters and soon cease to exist.
        The conservative wing will have to wait until the disasters that is Labor become obvious to the less gullible youngsters, as they face very little job prospects and a collapsing economy. Not a prospect for them or Australia!

        130

        • #
          PeterS

          I’m starting to see Martin Armstrong’s angle on this. He states the reason for the Victorian result is the Trump Revolution is unfolding everywhere. It is NOT a philosophy left or right – it is just drain-the-swamp and throw out whoever is in power. I’ve started to think that way not long ago and now I’m convinced that’s the case. People are sick and tired of governments that do nothing but speak in forked tongues and doublespeak as though it’s the only way to talk. I too am sick of it all. I sincerely hope the LNP crashes and burns not just to punish them but also to flush out the spineless career politicians of which the LNP is overflowing.

          70

          • #
            Analitik

            Nice theory except that the Andrews’ government wasn’t thrown out.

            I will agree that the LNP is doomed with its attempts to pitch to those who will never vote for it. Victoria is now firmly on the same path trail-blazed by South Australia a decade ago. De-industrialization, here we come.

            This morning, I was expressing my faith in the Victorian electricity infrastructure through the purchase of a backup generator. I will get to trial it next week during a planned outage, as part of preparation for this summer’s blackouts.

            80

          • #
            Chad

            I……….. the reason for the Victorian result is the Trump Revolution is unfolding everywhere. It is NOT a philosophy left or right – it is just drain-the-swamp and throw out whoever is in power. I’ve started to think that way not long ago and now I’m convinced that’s the case. People are sick and tired of governments that do nothing but speak in forked tongues and doublespeak ……

            If that is the case, why didnt they vote out the sitting Labor state government ?
            They have been doing as much of nothing and doublespeak , as any other government !

            30

            • #
              PeterS

              I did think of that point. I suspect the voters are sick and tired of LNP at the federal level so they took out their anger at the state level. If that’s the case the federal election will be a catastrophe for the LNP. Also the Victorian LNP are just as spineless as their federal counterparts. People are looking for leaders with some spine. None exist at this stage anywhere so voters have no real reason to vote out a clueless party only after their first term only to have another party of like manner. Perhaps next time the voters will throw them out if they haven’t changed. What we really need is a Trump.

              50

              • #
                Graeme#4

                The Oz had a piece from latte set today, who said that Andrews promised “certainty”. IIRC, so did a certain German gent in the 1930s. And the general public fall for this. They did then and will do so now.

                61

              • #
                el gordo

                G4 its a mistake to draw any conclusions from a German bloke who took advantage of the Great Depression and the caffe latte set in 21st century Oz.

                Andrews gave them bread and circuses, and the electorate liked the taste of it.

                40

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      Peter,
      The discontinuity between what is real and voting behaviour is amazing.

      Still, as I said the other day, maybe Victorians took a look at what Libls did in S.A. after being given office.

      Although I haven’t followed the S.A. news at all but it seems that the libs didn’t change anything.

      Victorians are probably hypnotized by the media but the S.A. performance was not a good advert for the libl brand.

      KK

      70

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        KK:

        Certainly campaigning as no change might get you into power as the Libs. managed in SA helped by a strong feeling that Labor had lost the plot, but then the bad news starts. Recently they’ve had to backtrack (if you will pardon the pun) on the route of the new tram tracks in the city, because the new trams couldn’t go round the planned (by Labor) bend. Also, after weeks of adverse news about the new Adelaide Hospital it turns out that it is operating 300 million over budget. Standby for other booby traps left by Labor.

        60

    • #
      Yonniestone

      With the swings being so large my first instinct was Labor vote tampering which would be nothing for this lot to do and you’d just add it to their growing list of law breaking behaviour.

      However considering reports at polling stations of younger voters grabbing Labor and Greens HTV flyers it makes sense, add to that the larger percentage of new migrants of whom many consider government handouts part of their income and a right the result doesn’t surprise me.

      Over a decade ago kids were being coerced towards the belief in global warming/climate change and globalism as fact and future, now these same kids are young adult voters who besides the early years have seen the climate rhetoric going unchecked amped up to eleven though MSM, social media and politics.

      Unfortunately a financial and social disaster will be the only thing to turn this country right again and while the elders lament the seeming lack of ability in the young I personally believe the true critical thinkers and strong amongst them will emerge as natural leaders do and take the fight to this perpetual accursed politics of the left.

      All is not lost friends, keep your wits sharp and your powder dry.

      142

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Agreed, and the more reasoned arguments we can put forth now so it sits at the back of their minds for the appropriate time, the better.

        I keep telling kids they need to think for themselves, and question things. Otherwise, how do you learn?

        20

    • #
    • #
      ColA

      From my post 7.1.2 above,

      Victorians just gave Andrews a huge mandate to waste 15 BILLION on batteries – did you hear any clear argument from the wishy washy Libs?? Did you hear any Lib saying “For 15 Billion we could build 5 HELE plants and SOLVE the whole countries energy problems for the next 50 years!!” – CRICKETS! .. CRICKETS!

      111

  • #
    Krishna Gans

    In a couple of days it will certainly be published here

    30

  • #
    ivan

    I think you have answered your question when you mention given the corruption, Union control . With that type of background are the results that strange? (ballot boxes with the ‘correct’ results ready to be counted is typical of their mouds operandi)

    71

  • #
    pat

    25 Nov: UK Express: Scottish power’s £107m to switch off turbines
    By Ben Borland
    SCOTTISH Power was paid £107million for switching off its wind turbines during a three-year delay in completing an undersea cable project which was supposed to solve that very problem. The £1billion Western Link from Ayrshire to North Wales was specifically designed to prevent so-called “constraint payments” by allowing more Scottish green electricity to reach consumers in England.

    Previously huge amounts of energy from Scotland’s wind farms became stuck in a bottleneck at the Border, resulting in operators being paid millions of pounds to shut down – and the cost being passed on to household bills. The new high voltage link, a joint venture between SP Energy Networks and National Grid, was commissioned in 2012 and the project was supposed to be completed by December 2015. However, a series of major problems delayed the start for two years and it then operated at a reduced capacity until last May when it was shut down again before finally coming online on October 16.

    According to figures compiled by the Renewable Energy Foundation (REF), Scottish wind farm operators received £267million in constraint payments during that period.
    Remarkably, ScottishPower Renewables – another division of the company which was partly responsible for delivering the Western Link – received £107million for switching off turbines at 14 of its 24 wind farms

    REF director Dr John Constable said: “It is not possible to say how much of these consumer costs could have been avoided if the interconnector had been built on time. And it is still too soon to say how effective the Link will be in reducing constraints…READ ON
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1050009/scotland-power-wind-turbines-switched-off-107million

    70

    • #
      yarpos

      “REF director Dr John Constable said: “It is not possible to say how much of these consumer costs could have been avoided if the interconnector had been built on time. And it is still too soon to say how effective the Link will be in reducing constraints…”

      Jeez does he know anything about what he is committed to and about to use. The engineering design and the business case must make interesting reading.

      50

  • #
    pat

    behind paywall:

    25 Nov: UK Times: Households face huge bills for energy failures
    Families face £100m hit as poorly funded start-ups go bust
    by Rachel Millard
    Nine energy companies have now collapsed since November 2016, after Spark Energy and Extra Energy stopped trading last week amid rising wholesale costs. The nine companies had more than 670,000 customers between them.

    Other suppliers have to take on customers from companies that fail, as well as costs including outstanding credit balances. Under a levy system, they can ask the rest of the industry to help fund the costs — which are typically then passed on to customers’ bills.
    Industry sources estimate that the bill for Spark and Extra could run to about £50m. Separately, industry regulator Ofgem has said that about £60m outstanding in renewable-energy payments will fall onto stronger suppliers that have already paid their share…

    ***One energy company boss said: “What we are doing is robbing Peter to pay Paul. We are charging loyal customers of profitable businesses to pick up the bill for the people who are getting cheap deals.”…
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2d7ab220-f01e-11e8-9fcf-225198b37f0e

    ***found the final excerpt on a reliable website, but can’t confirm it otherwise, as the article is behind a paywall.

    50

  • #
    pat

    MUST-READ ALL. Note: * All names have been changed:

    25 Nov Guardian: Homeowners trapped by 25-year solar panel contracts
    Householders who lease their roofs to power firms find it hard or costly to move home
    by Anna Tims
    Julie Griffiths* wanted to reduce her carbon footprint by installing solar panels. The cost would have been a prohibitive £12,000, so she signed a deal to lease part of her roof to a solar power company, which would fit the panels for free. It would pocket the newly introduced feed-in tariffs (FITs) – subsidies paid by the government for the electricity generated. She, meanwhile, would have lower energy bills. At the end of the 25 years, the panels and the tariffs would be hers.

    It seemed a win-win situation until recently, when she needed to sell the house. Her buyer’s mortgage application was refused because of the lease agreement, which had effectively signed over a large part of the roof to the solar company.
    “A clause in the lease allowed us to buy out the panels for a fee to compensate the company for the loss of their FITs,” she says. “We were prepared to do it to be able to sell our house and move on with our lives, but the company had passed the management of the panels on to an agent, who seemed reluctant to let us proceed.”

    Eventually, after the Observer intervened, Griffiths was allowed to buy the panels for £20,500, an uncosted sum that she was told was non-negotiable. Not only was this nearly double the price she’d have paid to install the system herself, but she had also missed out on nearly eight years of FITs worth, around £7,300. All in all, the “free” system has left her around £16,000 out of pocket…

    Since most of the original companies have ceased trading, it can be difficult for sellers and buyers to find out who owns their panels…READ ALL

    80

  • #
    pat

    a small mine, but a big victory. worth a read:

    23 Nov: ChronicleLiveUK: Lisa Hutchinson: Opencast mining at Druridge Bay back on track after High Court ruling
    A High Court judge has upheld the legal challenge from operators Banks Mining to the government’s decision to refuse planning permission for the Druridge Bay opencast coal mine in Northumberland…

    The proposals were backed unanimously by Northumberland County Council’s planning committee as long ago as July 2016.
    After a public inquiry, a government planning inspector also recommended that planning permission be granted…

    But the then Communities Secretary, Sajid Javid, dropped a bombshell in March when he went his own way and refused consent.
    He said the economic benefits of the mine were outweighed by concerns over greenhouse gas emissions and climate change…

    Banks challenged the decision at the High Court in London, and was handed victory on Friday by Mr Justice Ouseley…

    Quashing Mr Javid’s decision, the judge said he had given inadequate reasons for rejecting the mining proposals.
    The ruling is a huge blow to Friends of the Earth and local pressure group, Save Druridge, who have campaigned against the mine…

    It now means the company’s planning application will have to be considered afresh by current Communities Secretary James Brokenshire…

    The judge said the “principal issue” was the effect that the mine would have on greenhouse gas emissions from the power generation industry.
    Banks Mining said that, if the mine could not open, imported coal would be burnt instead, probably increasing greenhouse gas emissions overall…
    https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/local-news/druridge-bay-northumberland-opencast-mining-15455042

    60

  • #
    pat

    it’s the Met Office’s turn now!

    behind paywall:

    25 Nov: UK Times: Rising seas threaten to engulf 1.7m homes, Met Office warns
    Climate change could see farmland inundated and coastal towns abandoned, says a report on the danger of CO2 emissions
    by Jonathan Leake
    The Met Office warns tomorrow that climate change and rising sea levels will threaten more than 1.5m homes, turn farmland into marsh and wash away beaches by the end of the century.
    Its UK Climate Projections report forecasts that the seas around Britain are likely to increase by 3-4ft by 2100, inundating low-lying land, putting 1.7m homes at risk and destroying many holiday beaches.

    Some coastal towns may have to be abandoned because the huge cost of sea defences will make them “unviable”. Many stretches of prime, low-lying farmland could also be lost, with the lowest, such as Romney Marsh in Kent, the Somerset Levels and parts of Essex facing near-permanent inundation. In some areas the impacts could reach far inland. Much of the farmland between King’s Lynn in Norfolk and Cambridge, for example, would lie below the new sea level and so be at risk of turning to marsh.

    Across the UK, such a rise would leave 100,000 coastal properties at risk from wave erosion, with another 100,000 sited on seaside cliffs at risk from landslips. Up to 1.7m homes would face flooding, according to a recent report from the Committee on Climate Change. The Met Office projections are the culmination of a three-year project commissioned by the Department for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs. The aim is to help policymakers prepare transport, power and other infrastructure for what is likely to be the fastest change in climate humanity has experienced…
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f90ee99a-f025-11e8-9fcf-225198b37f0e

    50

    • #
      Annie

      Words fail me!

      82

      • #
        Kinky Keith

        Scaremongering.

        Absolutely baseless scaremongering.

        How are they allowed to get away with this. Is there No government control over the spread of these unfounded “warnings”?..

        The world has gone mad.

        KK

        71

        • #
          Analitik

          Oh come on. How can you ignore the disappearance of Tuvalu and The Maldives and the thousands of displaced climate refugees that New Zealand has taken in?

          Oh. Hang on…

          101

      • #
        dinn, rob

        yet –
        with a fan and plan and sleigh of hand
        can you make a train go?
        can you spin a market on financial paper, ‘lectronic entrys, whim?

        they love their toys,
        “Give me more! and more, Santa!”—
        the money changers, drunk again,
        Christmas in their big sock and all the world
        to boot as hard as they may

        get rid of whoever you want,
        dump whatever you like,
        clever but not it, no, not even

        knife in the heart, it’s a game,
        watch them play from here to almost
        eternity

        the Christmas tree gets lit anyway

        30

    • #
      Chad

      Much of the farmland between King’s Lynn in Norfolk and Cambridge, for example, would lie below the new sea level and so be at risk of turning to marsh.

      Breaking news !!
      Much of that land has been below sea level for thousands of years !
      It is called the “Fenland” and is reclaimed land only pumped dry in the past century and maintained by a system of canals, dykes and pumping stations….and was well below sea level before then

      101

    • #
      sophocles

      Someone must have a lot of money to spend on prime beach or seaside property. Those someones don’t think much of the intelligence of the present owners …

      40

    • #
      Another Ian

      Must be a bloody big forecasting fail they’re trying to do a “squirrel” on

      30

  • #
    pat

    unless everyone ditches the Paris agreement, the world will be plagued forever by crazies like these, by idiotic lawsuits, by child CAGW pawns, etc:

    behind paywall:

    25 Nov: UK Times: Meet Dr Demo, the activist behind the road-block radicals
    The group emerging as the new face of climate activism is run by a man studying for a PhD in civil disobedience
    by Jonathan Leake
    Their climate change protests have brought central London to a standstill and are elbowing aside established green groups such as Greenpeace.
    Now The Sunday Times can reveal the activist behind the fast emerging environmental group Extinction Rebellion is a 52-year-old activist studying for a PhD in civil resistance movements.

    Protesters led by Roger Hallam, ER’s co-founder, paralysed central London for a second weekend yesterday when they staged a mock “funeral for the planet”, starting with a “memorial service” in Parliament Square before carrying a coffin along Whitehall to the Mall — and laying it outside the gates of Buckingham Palace…
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/709a820e-f034-11e8-9fcf-225198b37f0e

    25 Nov: The National Scotland: Climate change rebel group rally in Edinburgh for Scottish launch
    By Nan Spowart
    A “DECLARATION of rebellion” has been announced at the Scottish Parliament by a radical climate change action group which has started to recruit in Scotland.
    Hundreds of Scots have already signed up to Extinction Rebellion after the group organised one of the biggest acts of mass civil disobedience in the UK in decades…
    Former Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams has backed the group along with nearly 100 senior UK academics.

    Yesterday saw the first Scottish action organised by the group with a rally in Edinburgh addressed by Scottish Greens co-convenor Patrick Harvie, Caroline Rance of Friends of the Earth Scotland, Ruth Wilkinson from Global Justice Now and Luke Devlin, director of the Centre for Human Ecology.

    Earlier in the week, more than 200 people joined the Edinburgh branch at its inaugural meeting while meetings have been overflowing in Glasgow. Groups are also being set up in Dundee, St Andrews and Highlands and Islands.
    A spokesperson said the group was growing “exponentially” because of dismay at government inaction.

    The group says citizens have a “moral duty to rebel” because the Government is not doing enough to stop climate change and is therefore “criminally negligent”. “We are willing to leave our comfort zones and make sacrifices to take action for change,” said the spokesperson.
    A new member of the Edinburgh group said the movement was “growing like crazy”…READ ON
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/17253946.climate-change-rebel-group-rally-in-edinburgh-for-scottish-launch/

    50

    • #
      James Murphy

      A PhD in civil resistance movements…
      It must make those with real academic qualifications quite annoyed and insulted to see their efforts cheapened and degraded in such a way.

      110

  • #
    Gerry, England

    I read in another article somewhere about the German desire to screw up its energy market and that too referred to a guilt with regard to WW2 and cited it as a reason for dumping nuclear power. This is very strange since the Germans never produced an atomic weapon. The Allies did much to disrupt the programme they had such at attacking the plant in Telemark, Norway, so that they were a long way from producing a weapon. If they had directed resource from the V weapons who knows, but then von Braun’s rockets would have provided the perfect delivery system, especially if the inter-continental A10 had been finished.

    70

  • #
    Dave in the States

    Will the children of the future feel guilt for the sins of their fathers? By this I mean the destruction of opportunities for today’s poor and their children through a world wide mass hysteria based on pseudoscience. The destruction of cheap energy. The return to feudal system of a few elites served by many surfs. Placing future generations into the bondage of socialism as a non-solution to non-problems.

    In many ways national socialism was based on pseudoscience: Social Darwinism, Eugenics, fantasist anthropology, rewritten history, destruction of academic freedom in the academies, the replacement and take over of private institutions by the state……

    60

  • #
    Dave in the States

    There is no reason for today’s Germans to feel guilt over the world wars. This a hijacking of history and today’s societies by today’s would be slave masters. WW2 was in large part caused by WW1 and its aftermath, and the resulting peace treaty. And WW1 was not necessarily the fault of the German people or even their government.

    40

    • #
      Dave in the States

      The holocaust, of course, should not be forgotten. All of humanity has cause for remorse. We should learn from such tragedies and not succumb to any mass hysteria again. We should never again place the group mob over the rights of the individual. We should never empower any government beyond what is absolutely necessary, especially to deal with made up and/or and exaggerated imperatives, and world governance is a very dangerous concept.

      60

    • #
      Curious George

      In the U.S., a compensation for slavery called “affirmative action” is still running strong. Southern Democrats fought a civil war in order to keep slaves, but they lost, and slavery was abolished in 1865 (Thirteenth Amendment). Apparently, 150 years is not long enough to compensate the grand-grand-grand-… children.

      90

    • #
      yarpos

      Most young Germans (say less than 40 years) dont feel the need for permanent personal guilt and self flagellation and will be most vocal about it. But the older folks do and that mixed with young brainless save the planet / open borders young people has resulted in a toxic mix for Germany. The German culture and powerhouse economy is at best weakened, and possibly gone over the next couple generations.

      91

  • #
    Krishna Gans

    Jo Novas presentation was one of three highlits as written here in a first (German) review.

    90

  • #
    GD Hanley

    Here’s the accompanying cartoon.

    And the blurb:

    How to destroy a power grid in three easy steps! Current climate and energy policy in Australia

    The successful science journalist and blogger Joanne Nova- Author of the booklet “The Sceptics Handbook” (published in German The Skeptics Handbook at EIKE) which was sold more than 200,000 times, told in a bitterly humorous way how “successful” Australia is in the process of destroying its well-functioning energy supply.

    Thanks to a radical change to “renewable”, there are more and more blackouts everywhere and the price for the kWh knows only one direction – steeply upwards. And even though Australia – slightly larger than Europe, but populated only by 25 million inhabitants – is one of the world’s largest coal producers and exporters.

    A race was being run with Germany, who would have most quickly sacrificed its energy infrastructure on the altar of “climate protection”. The bitter applause of the audience was certain.

    110

  • #
    nc

    “Our excuse? Just general virtue signaling and feeling wealthy on the part of our opinion-forming elites I suppose, coupled with a complete lack of due diligence.”

    Gee thought you were referring to Canada and our elitist prime minister for a moment there..

    110

  • #
    Another Ian

    Chiefio has added a new category –

    “Global Cooling”

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2018/11/25/global-cooling-a-pointer-a-category/

    Interesting links already

    61

  • #
    • #
      yarpos

      I am in awe of the people that have stayed with sea level rise as an alarmist theme , and continue to beat the drum loudly. Every day, by every measure, all around them nothing continues to happen that hasnt been happening for centuries. Yet there they are , running around like headless chooks.

      111

      • #
        PeterS

        Even a headless chook eventually stops running around but the CAGW activists are still very active, helped by both major parties, MSM and clueless educators in schools and universities. That’s a lot of chook heads to chop off. Unfortunately we will have to suffer a crash and burn before we get a decent political party in office with the right stuff.

        90

  • #
    pat

    22 Nov: AFR: Malcolm Turnbull to headline clean energy summit next month
    by Phillip Coorey
    Former Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull will give the headline speech at a clean energy summit next month – right in the middle of the final sitting of federal Parliament.
    Mr Turnbull, dumped by conservatives supposedly because of his advocacy for the National Energy Guarantee, will address the December 4 summit in Sydney which has been organised by The Smart Energy Council.

    The topic will be: Politics, engineering and economics: Opportunities for a clean energy transition.

    “The Smart Energy Council looks forward to hearing Mr Turnbull’s analysis of clean energy politics, economics and engineering. There is no-one better placed in Australia to talk about these issues. It will be a unique and important presentation,” said John Grimes, the chief executive of the Smart Energy Council.
    Mr Turnbull has twice been removed as Liberal Party leader because of his advocacy for clean energy to combat climate change…
    https://www.afr.com/news/malcolm-turnbull-to-headline-clean-energy-summit-next-month-20181122-h187b6

    17 Oct 2017: ABC: Clean Energy Target dumped by Coalition in favour of Malcolm Turnbull’s new plan, a National Energy Guarantee
    By political correspondent Louise Yaxley
    Meanwhile, John Grimes from the Australian Solar Council is threatening to run a multi-million-dollar campaign against the Turnbull Government over the plan.
    “I will go back and talk to our industry but I think you will find there may well be an appetite to run a very pointed political campaign against this disastrous policy that finishes the job that Tony Abbott set out to achieve,” Mr Grimes said.
    He said ending the subsidies for renewables could cost more than 10,000 jobs in the sector
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-17/coalition-signs-off-on-new-energy-plan-to-replace-cet-proposal/9057026

    40

    • #
      pat

      The Australian alleges:

      ScoMo not needed in NSW, Gladys Berejiklian hints
      The Australian-22 hours ago
      NSW Premier indicated yesterday she would not want Scott Morrison or his federal colleagues to play a role in the March state election…

      but her Minister of Resources, Don Harwin, will join Turnbull at the NSW Smart Energy Summit (click arrow at right of Turnbull pic to get the gallery of Speakers, including Harwin):

      Smart Energy Council: NSW Smart Energy Summit
      https://www.smartenergy.org.au/nswsummit

      Harwin is not convincing when he tries to explain why the desal plant has to become operational when dams reach 60%:

      AUDIO: 11min26sec: 26 Nov: 2GB: Michael McLaren: They’re about to crank up the desal plant, and it’s going to cost you
      Sydney’s desalination plant will be dusted off & switched on within weeks which will be see around $45 added to homeowners’ water bills. Don Harwin, the NSW Minister for Resources, joins Michael to discuss why this is happening and what it will mean for the rate payers of Sydney.
      https://www.2gb.com/podcast/theyre-about-to-crank-up-the-desal-plant-and-its-going-to-cost-you/

      50

      • #
        David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

        G’day Pat,
        Some heavy rain is forecast for around Sydney tomorrow and Wednesday, and some might reach the catchment??
        Worth watching.
        Cheers,
        Dave B

        30

      • #
        AndyG55

        ” will join Turnbull at the NSW Smart Energy Summit”

        Apparently NSW Liberals also want to continue to haemorrhage votes.

        Talk about handing your opponent an open goal. !!

        42

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Well, its a good way to poison the election well for the right….

          Its the electoral equivelent of having a dead dog tied to the back of your car….

          20

      • #
        AndyG55

        Re Desal.

        Sydney’s Warragamba Dam is currently at 60%, and dropping quicker than they would like.

        60% is the signal to start the desal plant, to try to slow the drop in Warragamba.

        Once operating, it will run for at least 12 months, regardless of rainfall.

        At that stage the dam levels will be looked at again.

        Because of the decision not to build Welcome Reef, and its subsequent transition to a National Park area, there has not been a major dam built for quite a while, so they are stuck with what they have.

        It will be interesting to see where Sydney gets its water from as it continues to expand.

        I suspect the desal plant will transition to 100% usage as a first step,

        maybe with some expansions to a couple of the dams..

        maybe another desal plant to the north,

        then to other options that may not be so “palatable”

        (thank goodness for the real science of water treatment)

        42

        • #
          AndyG55

          “https://www.waternsw.com.au/supply/Greater-Sydney/greater-sydneys-dam-levels”

          A useful app, but often a little bit behind.

          All dams are struggling. Hopefully the forecast rain will help a bit

          Click on the lower blue drip, Tallowa Dam, it says 0%.
          That is because it is below the level where Sydney is allowed to draw water from it.

          32

    • #

      The lunatics have taken over the asylum.
      Back ter the Dark Ages!

      60

  • #
    pat

    TWEET: Mark Butler MP, Shadow Minister Climate Change and Energy. Member for Port Adelaide:
    That’s twice in 12 months the Liberals have fought an election attacking Labor’s renewable energy policies and promising to build new coal stations – and lost! Time for Scott Morrison to junk the hard-right rubbish on climate and energy.
    24 Nov 2018
    https://twitter.com/Mark_Butler_MP/status/1066512788288225286

    26 Nov: Australian Mining: MacMines gains environmental approval for $6.7bn QLD coal mine
    MacMines Austasia has received the environmental nod from the Queensland Government for its greenfield China Stone coal mine in the Galilee Basin…
    MacMines, which is owned by Chinese company Meijin Energy Group, has estimated that the project would bring $1.7 billion a year to the Northern and Mackay regions…
    It is expected to produce up to 38 million tonnes a year of thermal coal for export to Asian markets and has an estimated mine life of 50 years…

    The Queensland Resources Council (QRC) chief executive Ian Macfarlane, in welcoming the approval, said that “every new investment in the resources sector is good news for Queensland”…
    “There are up to six mines that could open in the Galilee Basin. That’s just the shot in the arm that regional towns need.”…

    Australian Conservation Foundation chief executive officer Kelly O’Shanassy commented negatively on the EIS approval and compared China Stone to Adani’s project.
    “The Queensland Government has failed to protect our communities by giving this mine a tick. The federal government must now reject it through national environment law,” she said.
    “All our elected representatives must work to stop the Adani coal mine, stop China Stone, and ensure not one tonne of Galilee coal is dug up and burnt so we can begin halting global warming and protect the people, communities and natural world that we love.”
    https://www.australianmining.com.au/news/macmines-gains-environmental-approval-6-7bn-qld-coal-mine/

    30

  • #
    pat

    22 Nov: Youtube: 1min50sec: Calgary Herald: Protesters (calling for pipelines) greet Justin Trudeau at Chamber event in Calgary
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVNW9GDbOWQ

    23 Nov: Toronto Sun: Candice Malcolm: It’s no wonder Trudeau was booed in Calgary
    Prime Minister Justin Trudeau was booed as he took the podium at an event in Calgary this week.
    Outside, thousands of demonstrators blocked the streets to protest Trudeau’s appearance in a province and a city that feels completely abandoned…

    Specifically, these folks were protesting his energy policies and, to use Trudeau’s own words, his plan to “phase out” the Canadian oil sands.

    Trudeau, always rich in platitudes and poor in understanding his job description, admitted it is “very much a crisis” in Alberta. No kidding. Trudeau is imposing his national carbon tax while having a hand in blocking four major pipelines — Energy East, Trans Mountain, Northern Gateway and Keystone XL.
    Alberta’s abundant oil supply is landlocked. Increasing amounts are therefore shipped by rail, which is not only more expensive but also more environmentally risky.

    As a result, Canadian crude oil is now selling at historic low prices and the economy is losing $80 million each and every day. Unemployment levels in Alberta are the highest in decades, one of four Calgary offices sit empty, investors and Canadian energy firms are fleeing the country, and, all the while, Albertans are still being forced to pay equalization transfer payments to the rest of the country.

    To add insult to injury, the Trudeau government introduced Bill C-69, which will make it all but impossible to approve future energy projects.
    Trudeau is inserting his divisive identity politics into the pipeline approval process and will require companies to undergo a review based on intersectional politics — a fringe far-left ideology championed by Marxist university professors and their social justice warrior students.

    Despite earlier promises to only run “modest deficits” and to balance the budget by 2018 — a pledge Trudeau said was “cast in stone” — the Liberals instead unveiled an $18.1 billion deficit, with $17.6 billion in new federal spending.
    With this gloomy state of affairs in Alberta as a backdrop, the federal government unveiled its Fall Economic Update this week. The Liberals have turned this update into a mini budget — another opportunity to bribe special interest groups with taxpayer money.
    Trudeau’s budget seemed to have targeted handouts and tax credits for everyone — manufacturers, the tech sector, fishermen, exporters, charities, and even ***journalists.

    Under Trudeau’s watch, the federal debt will grow to $765 billion by 2023, and continue to skyrocket from there. Our children and grandchildren will be left with that bill, to be paid off through higher taxes and reduced services.

    But out of all that money, all that borrowing and all those handouts, the Trudeau Liberals couldn’t find a way to support the energy industry in Alberta — the backbone of the Canadian economy and a source of hope and opportunity for Canadians of all walks of life.

    In fact, there wasn’t a penny pledged to help Canadians who work in the oil sands. Nothing to speed up pipeline construction, nothing to increase the capacity for oil to be shipped by rail, nothing to remove barriers and help get our oil to market.
    Trudeau may acknowledge the existence of a crisis in Alberta, but he fails to grasp how he’s played a significant role in creating and prolonging it.

    No wonder he was booed and protested.
    https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/malcolm-its-no-wonder-trudeau-was-booed-in-calgary?fbclid=IwAR0yYorc7shT9GDkAyPMOqs9Vs5m-dC4y6Ss3TESJg_n0LVlNT8jDPjee08

    60

    • #
      pat

      ***21 Nov: RebelMediaCanada: Justin Trudeau is giving an extra $595 million to Canadian media. But The Rebel is not for sale!
      Trudeau has announced he’s set up a $595,000,000 slush fund for Canada’s few remaining private sector journalists — but only if he can “trust” them.
      I’m not making that up. Here’s how the Globe and Mail reported it (LINK):…

      All the big newspapers — the Toronto Star, the Globe and Mail, the National Post — have been publicly begging Trudeau for a bail-out. They even hired lobbyists.
      The big TV stations — CTV and Global — have been salivating over it too, jealous of the CBC’s free money.

      And the big journalism union has not only called for government money, but they’ve also pledged their loyalty to Trudeau in return. Just a few weeks ago, they announced they will campaign as an official pro-Trudeau SuperPAC in the next election. Here’s their tweet, announcing their partisan campaign…READ ON
      https://www.therebel.media/justin-trudeau-liberals-give-595-million-to-media-sector-ottawa-fiscal-update

      50

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        This is beyond weird…..

        Cry poor, then fawn over your new owner…..its like some tragic B-grade opera…..

        30

  • #

    Umm,

    I heard on the news the other day that the Queensland Government has approved a new coal mine in Central Queensland’s Galilee Basin, and this new mine will sit alongside the Adani project. It will be owned and operated by China Stone.

    A little ‘snippet’ mentioned on that news release almost went unnoticed, but it made me prick up my ears, that this mine also comes with a power station as well, just that, no other information.

    So, I went digging and it took me a while but I found the document regarding this power station.

    It will be SuperCritical plant of 3 Units, each of 350MW, so 1050MW in total.

    Nice one Queensland Government.

    How’s that 50% renewables by 2030 thing going eh?

    Tony.

    Oh, link to pdf document on that power station: http://eisdocs.dsdip.qld.gov.au/China%20Stone%20Coal/AEIS/Addendum%20to%20the%20Additional%20information%20to%20the%20EIS/response-on-power-station.pdf

    190

    • #
    • #
      Robber

      Tony, no estimate of capital cost? But Courier Mail reports $7 billion. Interesting comments:
      The table shows the demand of the electrical equipment used to replace the majority of a diesel powered fleet. (2/3 of the power
      demand). The economic impact of this was clear as was stated in the power station note (see Addendum).
      The change from a usual truck and shovel fleet to In-Pit Crusher Conveyor reduces our diesel consumption by 50%. Without IPCC, the project will use 140 million litres of diesel per year.
      The environmental impact of this is very clear – if the B Seam coal was sitting on a reject pile it will still emit carbon dioxide through natural oxidation; The project uses the energy contained within the B Seam rejects to generate cheap power and replace diesel. The internal combustion engines are replaced by electric motors.
      An all electric coal mine?
      Typical build time for a 350 MW unit in China is 24 months, half the time as built in Australia. The company plans to use as much modular construction as transport will allow.
      And we wonder why Australia is no longer competitive?
      And from the ABC: MacMines AustAsia’s 20,000-hectare China Stone thermal coal project is expected to produce 38 million tonnes of coal annually. It will create thousands of jobs and is
      planned to be built alongside Adani’s proposed mine in central Queensland, looping into the Indian project’s planned railway line to Abbot Point.
      The $6.7 billion project will contribute about $188 million annually in royalties to the Queensland Government during its first 25 years of operation.

      70

    • #
      Graeme#4

      Forgot to ask – when you say “SuperCritical”, is this the same as HELE?

      20

      • #

        Graeme#4

        SuperCritical is one technology step lower than USC (UltraSuperCitical) but it is still two levels of technology higher than the current coal fired plants in use here in Oz, all mostly 60s and 70s technology, mostly SubCritical.

        SuperCritical is higher efficiency and lower emissions, but not as much as USC.

        Queensland already has 4 plants that are SC, all built in this Century, thankfully just before this climate madness set in. Those are two Units at Callide C One Unit at Kogan Creek, two Units at Millmerran, and the single Unit at Tarong North, all except Millmerran owned by the Queensland Government, and the most modern and the youngest coal fired plants in Oz.

        Incidentally, this new plant proposed for the mine. There’s no need for it to be USC and large scale as it is only being used to power the mining operation itself. USC would realistically be for large scale, say Units driving a single generator of 1000MW to 1300/1400MW, and usually two units and used as power delivery mechanism for a grid purpose and general electricity supply.

        The mine itself is a (relatively) small user hence three smaller 350MW Units of SC technology. They will have three Units but only two of them will be running at any one time. As one goes down for maintenance, the third will come on line to cover for the off line Unit. SC technology also consumes way less coal than the older plants do, and with just these two smaller Units in operation, I might think they would only consume less than 2 million tonnes of coal each year to run them. As they already own their coal it is a far cheaper option than having to purchase the Diesel, and that’s less than 3% to 5% of the coal they mine each year for export.

        Still, it is a coal fired plant, and it is in Queensland, home of 50% renewables by 2030. Huh! As if that will ever happen.

        Tony.

        60

  • #
    Another Ian

    Look for the invention of a whole new fleet of scribbliwigets in that area then!

    20

  • #
    pat

    read all:

    24 Nov: Forbes: Pro-Nuclear Activists Win Landslide Electoral Victory In Taiwan
    by Michael Shellenberger
    In a surprise victory, Taiwanese voters on Saturday decisively rejected the government’s phase-out of nuclear power, 59% to 41%.
    Pro-nuclear activists in Taiwan shouted and shed tears of joy at around 10:15 pm Taiwan time (9:15 am Eastern time) after it became clear that they had won the required five million votes to pass a referendum ending the phase-out…

    As of this writing, 5,894,570 votes were cast in favor of repealing the nuclear phase-out, and 4,013,621 votes against the initiative.
    “We will immediately ask the government to start-up non-operating reactors and extend the lives of the others,” said Shih-Hsiu Huang, a “Go Green With Nuclear” referendum organizer.

    After shutting down a nuclear reactor, the nation last year suffered a deadly black-out that threatened the nation’s vital semiconductor industry.

    A Trend Survey Research poll commissioned by pro-nuclear activists before the vote found that one of the strongest arguments for nuclear was, “Solar and wind are not stable, and are expensive,” attracting 71% agreement…READ ALL
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/11/24/pro-nuclear-activists-win-landslide-electoral-victory-in-taiwan/#4149c7ae29a0

    50

  • #
    pat

    found on a twitter thread related to tweets below the Guardian one. video is more like encouragement to strike, one child looks to be maybe 5 or 6 years old:

    Guardian Australia
    On Tuesday, Guardian Australia will be hosting #MyClimateQuestions – a liveblog and Q&A for school students and young Australians about climate change. Submit qs to myclimatequestions@theguardian.com or use the hashtag. Tuesday 27 November, 4pm–6.30pm, on http://gu.com/au
    VIDEO
    https://twitter.com/GuardianAus/status/1066511797337829376

    TWEET: Eric Holthaus, Meteorologist, Staff writer @grist
    Who are your favorite (non-white non-men) climate experts you’d like to see on TV and hear on the radio?
    Cc: @PBS @NPR @CBS @NBCNews @ABC @FoxNews @CNN @MSNBC

    replying to TWEET 9h ago by Brian Schatz, United States Senator from Hawaii. Dad. Climate Hawk. Appropriator. Chief Deputy Whip.
    Hey can people tweet some names of climate change experts so that the TV bookers have them available? (This is not a sarcastic tweet)…

    (MARC MORANO AMONG THOSE WHO REPLY)
    https://twitter.com/EricHolthaus/status/1066771611041312778

    7h ago: Holthaus tweets:
    Mine: @KateAronoff @SarahEMyhre @rebleber @emorwee @KendraWrites @SydneyAzari @KHayhoe @JacquelynGill @DrKateMarvel @ayanaeliza @KathieDello @DrKWilkinson @_aploy @frkearns @JaneLubchenco @NaomiOreskes @JessicaHellmann @priyology @reneelertzman @coralsncaves

    from replies to Schatz:

    Dr. Jacquelyn Gill, Ice Age ecologist in a warming world. Professor @UMaine. Co-host of @ourwarmregards.
    Thanks! Many of my awesome colleagues (eg @MichaelEMann, @KHayhoe) have talked about getting booked and then bumped last-minute by networks.
    Some other great folks: @GlobalEcoGuy @DrShepherd2013 @coralsncaves @Tessa_M_Hill @EricHolthaus @jclement4maine

    Jon Favreau (former Obama speech-writer)
    We’ve had @KHayhoe on the pod, who’s both brilliant and accessible.

    nuanced:
    Replying to @brianschatz
    @PeterGleick @billmckibben @MichaelEMann

    Peter Gleick:
    Thanks.

    Dot Schwartz
    @KHayhoe has compiled a list of 1835 climate experts. https://twitter.com/KHayhoe/lists/scientists-who-do-climate/members

    Michael E. Mann
    Thanks, There are many others: @KHayhoe @DrAndreaDutton @coralsncaves @DrKateMarvel @PeterGleick immediately come to mind, but lots more!

    20

  • #
    pat

    difficult to find any MSM getting answers about why children are out of school protesting “climate”.

    ignore first short video:

    24 Nov: TripleM: Stop Adani Protesters Try to Hijack Jobs Announcement
    Shortly after 9:30am, Deputy Prime Minister Michael McCormack was announcing new jobs to the city with the relocation of the Australian Maritime Safety Authority when the small group began chanting from behind.
    Appearing out of nowhere the protesters, who would likely win a ‘hide and seek’ contest, were yelling “Cowper doesn’t want Adani”, and other lines.

    At one point, referring to the school aged children with them, one of the females asked the Deputy PM to “turn around and look at the younger generation that will be affected by this”. When asked by Triple M why they weren’t at school, one woman said “Ah none of ya business, none of ya business actually”. Another then confirmed that it is because the school has a pupil free day for ‘report writing’.

    According to one of the woman, she said that “on November 30, nationally, school student were going on strike”.
    A number of local Coffs Coast Public Schools have confirmed that they don’t have a pupil free day, while NSW Education have been contacted for comment regarding the day for report writing and the apparent student strike.
    SEE THE FULL VIDEO HERE: (LONGER VIDEO)
    https://www.triplem.com.au/news/coffs-coast/stop-adani-protesters-try-to-hijack-jobs-announcement

    absolutely tons of stuff on the children in the following, but noting the FB stuff at the bottom, excerpted here:

    9 Nov: CentreForClimateSafetyAustralia: ***Mik Aidt: #ClimateStrikeAustralia: Students walk out of school
    SCROLL WAY DOWN:
    Comments and reactions on Facebook
    “Forbidden”
    “So I just spoke to the Vice Principal of Grovedale College who has said that the school received a letter from the department of education informing them that under this ‘care taker period’ before the election they are forbidden from engaging in any political activity including promoting or discussing anything political. Lame! I explained to him that he has a duty of care to role model social responsibility to the children and he said that he could lose his job and that he would not do anything. Very, very disappointed in this response. Particularly because my understanding (and please correct me if I’m wrong…) is that they are legally allowed to walk out of school and support this action. I do understand fear of losing his job, but what message is he sending? That jobs are more important than lives?!…
    Sad, sad times. I will be taking my children out of school and joining those who are privileged to have the ability to stand up against this and courageous enough to support others who are the victims of these laws and those who are victims of their fears and inaction.”
    ~ Kylie Cools, 16 November 2018…

    …. to which Jacqui Fenwick replied:

    “Hi Kylie Cools – my understanding is, the union supports the action, but doesn’t fall under the legal cover off industrial action. Principals can approve leave, at principals discretion – just like any other leave. However the Department of education and minister Merlino have instructed principals not to grant leave. Obviously this puts principals in a difficult situation, however their actions may be influenced by the number of teachers and also what they are hearing from parents. I am saddened that Principals have been put in this position, especially as the rally organisers have done everything possible not to disrupt the schools for children and parents – in good faith.”
    ~ Jacqui Fenwick…

    “You could spend your energy lobbying for the department of education to improve the curriculum instead of encouraging children to wag school for the day. Just sayin’ this is ridiculous and looks really bad for the environmental movement. Most parents will not take to the idea of an adult organisation promoting that their children leave school to become environmental activists. It certainly does not seem like a very constructive action and to be honest there would be much better ways to give children a voice on this issue.”
    ~ Tommy Kat
    https://climatesafety.info/climatestrikeaustralia/

    Climate Safety’s Mik Aidt from About page (their motto is #TheTimeHasCome for ZeroCarbon2025):

    Mik Aidt is a 54-year-old journalist based… well, on Earth — our one and only planet. He used to live in Denmark many years. He spent almost four years in Africa, and has visited some 55 countries around the planet. Now he has settled in Australia with his family…
    Mik’s New Year’s resolution of 2013 was that he would make a conscious move from seeing himself as a citizen of a country and a city to become a ‘citizen of the planet’, and as such, to focus much more on the well-being of humanity, inspired by the words of R. K. Pachauri, “We are all citizens of Planet Earth, and there is no other place we can go.”…

    Sept 2017: Geelong Advertiser: Geelong council election 2017: Your guide to the Brownbill Ward
    Candidate ***Mik Aidt
    Mr Aidt, who is the founder and co-host of The Sustainable Hour on Pulse FM, states that he is an independent candidate.
    Passionate about addressing climate change and renewable energy, he is a committee member of organisations such as Geelong Sustainability and Frack Free Geelong…

    HE LOST.

    40

  • #
    pat

    lots of info:

    25 Nov: ClimateDepot: Marc Morano: Scientists trash new federal climate report as ‘tripe’ – ’embarrassing’ – ‘400-page pile of crap’ – Report’s key claim based on ‘study funded by Tom Steyer’
    Climate experts call out new federal report for hiding the decline in hurricanes – ‘Were they thinking, no one would notice?’
    http://www.climatedepot.com/2018/11/25/scientists-trash-new-federal-climate-report-as-tripe-embarrassing-400-page-pile-of-crap-reports-key-claim-based-on-study-funded-by-tom-steyer/

    51

  • #
    pat

    25 Nov: WUWT: Trial of Kids Climate Change Lawsuit indefinitely postponed
    by charles the moderator
    From Legal Insurrection (LINK)
    Posted by William A. Jacobson Wednesday, November 21, 2018 at 6:14pm
    District Court reverses itself, grants the government an immediate “interlocutory” appeal to the 9th Circuit, putting the trial on hold indefinitely, in a case likely to end up in Supreme Court…

    The full order (pdf.)(LINK) is embedded below (h/t Chris Geidner).
    Read the full story here (LINK):
    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/11/25/trial-of-kids-climate-change-lawsuit-indefinitely-postponed/

    30

  • #
    pat

    ***1,656-page report? the number of pages increases, even if temperature doesn’t. who could be bothered opening the thing to check?

    23 Nov: Newsweek: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on climate change, ‘People are going to die’
    by Scott McDonald
    Enter the Democrats’ face of the left-wing socialist, progressive movement to serve notice with a stern warning if it doesn’t happen. Newly-elected representative Ocasio-Cortez of New York said “people will die” if action isn’t taken now. Ocasio-Cortez fired off this Tweet in response to the ***1,656-page report.

    “People are going to die if we don’t start addressing climate change ASAP. It’s not enough to think it’s “important.” We must make it urgent. That’s why we need a Select Committee on a Green New Deal, & why fossil fuel-funded officials shouldn’t be writing climate change policy.”

    Her message on the worldwide web comes not long after she sent a message of wanting healthcare and college for Americans, and “our climate to be saved from cataclysmic disaster.”…
    Ocasio-Cortez will not be sworn into office until the new year, but she’s already starting to cause her own ripple in Washinton.
    https://www.newsweek.com/people-are-going-die-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-said-climate-change-must-be-1229620

    30

  • #
    Another Ian

    One More for the List of “Caused by Global Warming”

    “Nearly 200 ‘Flash Frozen’ Sea Turtles Have Washed Ashore in Massachusetts”

    https://www.newsweek.com/nearly-200-dead-sea-turtles-have-washed-ashore-massachusetts-1230292

    50

  • #
    Another Ian

    “When the Wind Doesn’t Blow”

    ” A brief look at the electrical balancing by the Bonneville Power Administration from Oregon and Washington, Nov. 2018 ”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/11/25/when-the-wind-doesnt-blow/

    40

    • #
      philthegeek

      “When the Wind Doesn’t Blow”

      Fear not! As the song says…..

      The 1st Mates name was Carter
      And Carter was a Farter
      When the wind doesn’t blow
      And the Ship doesn’t go
      The Carter the Farter will Start Her!!

      :)

      45

      • #
        Another Ian

        Congratulations!

        Seems you’ve finally got Jo’s message -

        “Ephemeral energy stinks”

        80

      • #
        el gordo

        ‘Where ever you be let your wind blow free, for woe it was the death of me.’

        On a lighter note.

        ‘Scott Morrison has been labelled “out of touch” for angrily condemning a national student strike to protest government inaction on climate change.

        ‘The prime minister implored children to stay in class rather than protesting things that “can be dealt with outside of school”.

        Guardian

        30

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Federal election prediction , Liberals 25 seats +- 5 seats , how they can get rid of Molan and Kelly by their factional Mafioso is anyone’s guess but I see a party imploding and not worthy of my vote , if I have a choice between green green or greener what the heck am I supposed to pick ?

    70

  • #
    Michael Reed

    What Toni from OZ has uncovered is quite remarkable.The Chinese will do what they they do at home (manufacture goods and then export those goods to other countries undercutting their manufacturing operations ie “everything is made in China” ).The other ploy the Chinese do in tourism is to buy prime real estate
    in those special locations -then build their own hotels and then compete and undermine local tourism operators .Well this buying of an Australian coal mine next to Adani is exactly the same thing and it will be a fascinating new development for renewables-since they have by the RET an d Government mandate managed to make coal fired power
    station investment a “no goer”.Well my take is that the Chinese will have control of the resource -coal- then build a super efficient HELE coal fired power station then just
    like my above mentioned examples in manufacturing and tourism just undercut renewables regardless of RET or mandate.So this inscrutable (winning business plan ) undercutting of any opposition pricing ( almost certainly with some losses in the short term which would have been” factored in”) will eventually by pricing attrition
    destroy any opposition in its path Oh my heart goes put to Infigen and the all caring but no responsibility taken AGL.So what an irony the Greenies will have finally met their match but in this contest the Chinese will not lose its definitely not in their DNA -their Juggernaught will keep rolling on and they will become the biggest economy
    in the world over the USA -it will then be the Yen and not the US$ that will reign supreme.
    Cheers Mike R

    70

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Not sure if the mods will censor this but here goes .

    Type into your browser -

    Bob Brown leader of the Greens on Beastiality .

    Google has the best results and duck duck go came up with this , https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2011/01-02/the-greens-agenda-in-their-own-words/

    Which makes me wonder are the trolls here in need of serious medical help .

    51

  • #
    pat

    all over the MSM. and, like the US National Climate Assessment, it is the most extreme PREDICTIONS that are being reported:

    26 Nov: BBC: Climate change: UK summers could be over 5C warmer by 2070
    In its first major update on climate change in almost 10 years, the Met Office has warned of significant temperature rises in the decades ahead.
    The UK Climate Projections 2018 (LINK) study is the most up to date assessment of how the UK will change over this century.

    It says that under the highest emissions scenario, summer temperatures could be 5.4C hotter by 2070.
    The chances of a summer as warm as 2018 are around 50% by 2050…

    Summers as warm as the one just past, are likely to be very common, with a 50% chance of occurring. In the recent past, says the Met Office, the chances of seeing a summer as warm as 2018 was only around 10%…
    https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-46343103

    26 Nov: UK Telegraph: British summer temperatures could rise by five degrees over next 50 years, major report to warn
    By Christopher Hope, and Sarah Knapton
    The UK Climate Projections 2018 report will say that the heatwave conditions experienced across Britain this year could become the norm.
    By 2070 average summer temperatures could have climbed by five degrees, leaving Britain at increased risk of water shortages and grassland fires, while winters will also rise by around four degrees.
    At a speech launching the report at London’s Science Museum today, Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary, will call for urgent action to tackle the warming climate, protect coastal areas from sea level rise, and make Britain’s transport and power infrastructure more resilient. “It is clear that the planet and its weather patterns are changing before our eyes. We know, more than ever before, the urgency of acting,” Mr Gove is expected to say…

    26 Nov: UK Times: Michael Gove calls for action on extreme weather
    In a speech to be delivered today, Michael Gove says: “It is only by heeding scientific warnings more keenly than ever before that we can safeguard our planet and our species’ survival.” He will be speaking at the Science Museum in London, where the UK Climate Projections 2018 are being presented. It is the first big update of climate forecasts in nearly a decade.
    Mr Gove says: “It is clear that the planet and its weather patterns are changing before our eyes. We know, more than ever before, the urgency of acting. These projections will give us an invaluable tool to assess the nature and scale of the challenge we face and take decisions accordingly.”…

    30

    • #
      pat

      DM uses Fahrenheit, to get a bigger bang for their buck:

      26 Nov: Daily Mail: British summers could be 9°F hotter by 2070 sparking more wildfires and water shortages
      by Harry Pettit
      Campaigners warned that devastating floods that hit Leeds and York in 2015, as well as wildfires on Saddleworth Moor in Manchester this summer, showed that the impacts of climate change can already be seen in the UK.
      They said projects to expand airports and build more roads show the government is not doing enough to limit global warming.
      Emi Murphy, climate change campaigner at Friends of the Earth, said: ‘The human cost of climate change, both in England and around the world, is already devastating.
      ‘It’s the most vulnerable communities paying the highest price, while the UK government fails to commit to the policies needed to avoid climate chaos…

      30

      • #
        mikewaite

        The summer heatwave (all 2 months of it) was a boon for historians and archaeologists in revealing evidence for
        as yet unexcavated sites going back to the Bronze age . I heard a few days ago from an academic archaeologist that
        the fires on Saddleworth have generated a sort of gold rush amongst researchers by exposing previously unknown sites on the Moor.

        50

        • #
          robert rosicka

          ABC and Palacechook are reporting the fire in QLD as being “Unprecedented ” , well since 1990 .

          41

  • #
    pat

    MSM doesn’t want to link to, nor name, who it is claiming $70bn has been provided/raised, nor who provided/raised what $ amounts! nothing but PR intended to quieten the developing world at COP24:

    24 Nov: Reuters: Climate cash for developing world set to meet U.N. 2020 goal
    by Megan Rowling
    The amount rich nations provided themselves and raised from the private sector in 2016 exceeded $70 billion, according to data in a biennial U.N. assessment. Government funding accounted for about $55 billion, a jump of 30 percent in two years…

    Joe Thwaites, a researcher at the World Resources Institute, said climate finance was a “critically important part” of the 2015 Paris Agreement, because poorer countries need the money to ramp up efforts to reduce heat-trapping emissions…
    “Given potential backsliding in the U.S. and Australia, and among some other countries, it’s reasonable to ask was 2016 a high watermark for climate finance?” said Thwaites.
    Yet funding from international development banks rose 28 percent between 2016 and 2017, and European Union states have maintained their contributions, he added…

    However, experts said more cash continued to be spent on the push to reduce emissions by boosting renewable energy and energy efficiency rather than on coping with climate change impacts…

    Adaptation – which includes measures from drought-tolerant crops and higher sea walls to protecting slum dwellers from heat – received only about a quarter of funding, analysts said.
    “Adaptation finance is still lagging behind and needs to be scaled up, especially considering the rising climate impacts we are seeing,” Helena Wright, a senior policy advisor with think tank E3G, told the Thomson Reuters Foundation…
    Globally, climate finance increased 17 percent between 2013-2014 and 2015-2016, reaching $681 billion, the report said…
    Wright noted that governments continued to provide huge subsidies for the fossil fuel industry – $373 billion in 2015.
    Those should be phased out to meet political commitments, and to align finance with the Paris pact vision of a low-carbon, climate-resilient world, she added.

    23 Nov: Bloomberg: Climate Aid for Poor Countries Reached $70 Billion in 2016
    By Jeremy Hodges
    Climate aid from the world’s richest countries to the poorest reached more than $70 billion in 2016, still some way short of a 2020 target for $100 billion to help developing nations combat global warming.
    The assessment from an official United Nations group monitoring the flows shows progress that rich countries led by the U.S. and European Union are making on the goal they set in 2009. While the amount of funds has been rising, both the U.S. and Australia have stopped contributing to the Green Climate Fund, raising concerns that their pledges won’t be met…

    Tensions have been building for years on the funding that industrial nations promised developing ones to pay for transforming their economies to run on clean energy and cope with the more violent storms and rising sea levels associated with climate change…

    India, China, Brazil and South Africa this week criticized the richest countries in the world for not sticking to their finance commitments while leaders of small island nations, the worst affected by climate change have repeatedly called for increased levels of money to stave off global warming…

    aha, Axios provides a link. and it’s a UNFCC report, 12 pages long, with no details as far as I can tell. increasing font size merely makes the report impossible to read!

    24 Nov: Axios: Ben Geman: Global climate aid rises but remains short of target
    •The new UN report is available here (LINK)…
    https://www.axios.com/global-climate-finance-rise-but-remains-short-of-goal-3d401757-05f4-4f80-b2c6-e5563b7b0baf.html?utm_campaign=Carbon%20Brief%20Daily%20Briefing&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue%20newsletter

    above links to:

    UNFCCC: Summary and recommendations by the Standing Committee on Finance on the 2018 Biennial Assessment and Overview of Climate Finance Flows (12 pages)

    30

    • #
      pat

      FT’s version, behind paywall, on the UNFCCC report, includes the following:

      Michal Kurtyka, the Polish minister presiding over the international climate summit in Katowice next month, warned that funding will be a contentious issue. “There is a very big debate around the issue of mobilisation of funding,” he commented

      FT also writes: “according to a new UN report seen by the Financial Times” which suggests they don’t name or link to the report, yet it’s available online!

      on, perhaps, a more realistic note, FT writes about aspects of the IEA’s World Energy Outlook 2018 (which costs 120 euros to download the PDF, or 150 euros for a paper copy). however, it doesn’t appear to say what 74% hydrocarbons in 2040 means in terms of supply compared to supply in 2008:

      Of the two big shifts in the energy market, one is a surprise
      Financial Times 25 Nov 2018
      To understand what has been happening it is instructive to compare the new Outlook with that published 10 years ago. Hydrocarbons — oil, gas and coal — accounted for 81 per cent of total global energy supply in 2008. The figure today is still 81 per cent and, according to the 2018 Outlook, that will decline only marginally over the next 20 years to 74 per cent in 2040.
      Two things, however, have changed. One was predicted, the other is a complete surprise. The first is the growing role of Asia in global energy consumption. From 18 per cent of the total in 1980, Asian demand has risen to 41 per cent now and is projected to account for almost half by 2040. The second change is the re-emergence of the US as one of the world’s leading energy suppliers, meeting its own needs and beginning to export both oil and gas. The shale revolution was completely unexpected. In the 2008 Outlook it is not mentioned. Now, only 10 years later, the US will produce some 7.6m barrels of oil a day from the main shale formations, with the prospect of much more to come…

      PRESS RELEASE & EXECUTIVE SUMMARY ARE AVAILABLE FOR FREE:

      IEA: World Energy Outlook 2018
      LINKS AT BOTTOM TO PRESS RELEASE AND EXECUTIVE SUMMARY (11-PAGE PDF)
      https://www.iea.org/weo2018/

      20

  • #
    pat

    best news of the day. China is still totally unenthusiastic about implementing their nationwide ETS:

    26 Nov: Reuters: China says work far from complete on national CO2 scheme
    reporting by Christian Shepherd; Writing by David Stanway
    China still needs to do a lot of work before it can fully launch its long-awaited nationwide carbon emissions trading scheme and will gradually phase in the system that is already running behind schedule, a senior government official said on Monday…
    The country had aimed to replace the regional pilots with a nationwide emissions trading scheme (ETS) by 2017, but it still needs to ensure it has the required legal and technological infrastructure in place, Li Gao, head of the climate change office at Ministry of Ecology and Environment, said.

    “As far as work arrangements are concerned, we must promote the construction of the carbon market in a phased and step-by-step manner,” Li said, noting that China would also do its utmost to limit risks by preventing “speculation” and the “excessive financialization” of carbon trading…

    Accumulated trade volume from China’s seven pilot regional carbon trading schemes reached 6 billion yuan ($863.9 million) by the end of October, up from 4.7 billion yuan at the end of last year, the ministry said.
    A total of 250 million tonnes of carbon dioxide had changed hands by the end of October, versus 200 million at the end of 2017. The schemes cover Beijing, Tianjin, Shanghai, Chongqing and Shenzhen, as well as the provinces of Guangdong and Hubei.

    President Xi Jinping pledged in 2015 to replace the regional schemes with the nationwide ETS by 2017, but despite a soft launch late last year, trading has yet to get off the ground amid concerns about data accuracy in some industrial sectors.

    Li said China has already carried out a lot of “preliminary work” but the government still needed to draft new laws and regulations. The scheme will start with the electric power sector but China will aim to achieve full nationwide trading in the “shortest possible time”…
    https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-climate-change-china/china-says-work-far-from-complete-on-national-co2-scheme-idUKKCN1NV04N?utm_campaign=Carbon%20Brief%20Daily%20Briefing&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue%20newsletter

    50

  • #
    pat

    more recalcitrance:

    Carbon Brief on the following which is behind a paywall (for me): The Economist argues that the International Maritime Organisation (IMO) and International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) are “clubs that protect producer interests”. With the IMO, the editorial says that “at least 17 countries have assigned their voting rights to flag registries operated by private firms…that adds up to about a tenth of delegates”. It continues: “Producer interests are protected…through a spectacular lack of transparency. The agenda of the IMO’s council…in London is available only to those with a password. Journalists are forbidden to report what delegates say or how they vote…Such swampiness matters. The IMO and the ICAO are responsible for limiting emissions from ships and planes, which were excluded from the Paris climate deal. Green groups say, for instance, that the ICAO’s new “Corsia” rules on carbon offsets could cause an increase in carbon emissions.”

    24 Nov: The Economist: Agency problems: Some international regulators have been captured by producer interests
    They should be reformed to put consumers first
    https://www.economist.com/leaders/2018/11/24/some-international-regulators-have-been-captured-by-producer-interests?__twitter_impression=true&utm_campaign=Carbon%20Brief%20Daily%20Briefing&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue%20newsletter

    40

    • #
      pat

      even more recaltricance:

      Carbon Brief on NYT article (behind paywall): “The world needs to quit coal. Why is it so hard?”
      Somini Sengupta, the New York Times’s international climate reporter, examines why “coal shows no sign of disappearing”, three years after the Paris Agreement. Coal is “hard to quit”, she says, because “powerful companies, backed by powerful governments, often in the form of subsidies, are in a rush to grow their markets before it is too late. Banks still profit from it. Big national electricity grids were designed for it.” She continues: “Coal plants can be a surefire way for politicians to deliver cheap electricity — and retain their own power”.

      24 Nov: NYT: The world needs to quit coal. Why is it so hard?
      by Somini Sengupta
      https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/24/climate/coal-global-warming.html?utm_campaign=Carbon%20Brief%20Daily%20Briefing&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue%20newsletter

      60

  • #
    pat

    why didn’t you remove this report, Reuters?

    23 Nov: Reuters: Germany’s coal commission advises to start coal exit in the west: Der Spiegel

    when you found out it was “completely unfounded”?

    23 Nov: ChannelNewsAsia: Reuters: German coal commission says report on exit from coal completely unfounded
    Germany’s coal commission said on Friday a magazine report saying the commission aimed to shut down coal-powered plants in western Germany corresponding to 37 gigawatts between 2022 and 2030 was “completely unfounded”.

    Der Spiegel earlier reported that the commission recommended to start shutting down most power plants in western Germany in 2022 whereas plants in the eastern part of the country should not go offline before a second phase would start in 2030.
    The coal commission, which includes politicians, experts and lobbyists, is in charge of finding a strategy for Germany’s exit from coal and is due to publish its final report in early 2019.
    https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/german-coal-commission-says-report-on-exit-from-coal-completely-unfounded-10963280

    50

  • #
    pat

    26 Nov: SMH: ‘Get real’: Liberals call for new message on climate, social policy after Victorian defeat
    by David Crowe
    Senior Liberals have rung the alarm on a voter backlash that threatens to wipe out the Morrison government, warning that a hardcore message on social issues is turning away the party’s own supporters.
    Victorian senator Scott Ryan said the party needed to regain its “real base” with a message about long-standing Liberal values, as he slammed media commentators and some party colleagues for setting “tests” for members around social issues and climate change…

    Liberal MP Tim Wilson said voters had named the federal leadership spill and climate change as factors in their votes against the Liberals in the state election…
    Mr Wilson said the environment was a factor for voters he spoke to on polling day in Victoria.
    “I believe in environmental stewardship and handing the next generation an environment that’s as healthy as the one that I inherited. And what we have to do is drive a very clear agenda about how we’re going to do that,” he told Sky News.
    “If anybody thinks that there’s this great public sentiment out there, that people deep-down really hate renewables and they’re hugging something like coal, I say again: ‘get real’.”…
    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/get-real-liberals-call-for-new-message-on-climate-social-policy-after-victorian-defeat-20181126-p50ibs.html

    20

    • #
      AndyG55

      The reasons NOT to vote Liberal just keep mounting up.

      Yes, Turnbull knifing Abbott was the real turning point

      And Tim, you and you ilk are handing the election to Shorten, there are no votes for you in taking this line.

      … unless you “get real” and stop following the leftist climate change NONSENSE and anti-CO2 agenda, the Liberals are destined to become a NOTHING party.

      64

  • #
    pat

    written by a guy who self-describes, on his Twitter page, as “sometimes a lawyer”:

    24 Nov: UK Independent: Why David Attenborough doesn’t deserve ‘the seat of the people’ at the next climate conference
    Let’s be clear: he is not a climate change expert
    by Paul Renteurs
    There’s no reason to think he knows any more about climate change, its causes, and the variability of potential solutions, than, say, you do…
    (A MERE 6 COMMENTS AFTER 2 DAYS!)
    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/david-attenborough-seat-of-the-people-climate-change-conference-un-a8649781.html?utm_campaign=Carbon%20Brief%20Daily%20Briefing&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue%20newsletter

    26 Nov: BBC: How climate change could be causing miscarriages in Bangladesh
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45715550?utm_campaign=Carbon%20Brief%20Daily%20Briefing&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue%20newsletter

    23 Nov: Springer: Climate change impacts on the distribution of venomous snakes and snakebite risk in Mozambique
    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10584-018-2338-4

    20

  • #
    Another Ian

    “Musings about “…the crystal meth of social media” ”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/11/26/musings-about-the-crystal-meth-of-social-media/

    20

  • #
    el gordo

    Hmmmm …..

    ‘Those who are not aligned with the hard right — a collection of Liberals from moderates to economic dries who are not big C conservatives — fear the threat to the Liberal Party is now existential.

    ‘They tell me the hard-right rhetoric and repudiation of mainstream values from a belief in climate change to gay rights is so toxic it has led lifetime Liberal voters to shun the party. One MP told me, “They are embarrassed to vote for us”.

    Patricia Karvelas / ABC

    40

    • #
      AndyG55

      ” a collection of Liberals from moderates ” (ie left-lite suckophants)

      Yes, you are a threat to the Liberals

      The leftist vote goes to Labor and Greens, not to the Liberal Party

      There are no votes to be gained by the Liberals by constantly taking leftist positions on everything

      While you continue to do this, once Liberal voters will continue to walk away.

      Notice the use of the word “belief”.. they have been conned by the new religion. !!

      84

      • #
        el gordo

        Totally, the propaganda wing has a way with words.

        The pseudo Marxists grow stronger by the day, so if we are to save our democracy, Morrison will have to grow a spine before Easter.

        41

    • #
      AndyG55

      “Liberal voters to shun the party. One MP told me, “They are embarrassed to vote for us”.”

      Yes Mr lab-lite MP, I will NOT vote for a bunch of left wing suckophants.

      Very embarrassing that you have let yourselves get that way.

      44

      • #
        el gordo

        Imagine the Coalition being routed, with only moderates retaining their seats. This would give us the opportunity to form a radical centre right party from scratch, with a solid platform.

        50

        • #
          beowulf

          Intended to follow 52.2.1

          Agreed Gordo. That’s what it will take. They will be lucky to last until Easter though — Julia Banks has just jumped ship and joined the cross-bench, leaving Morrison in even more of a minority. The wheels are falling off.

          If a core group of centre-rightists would just get together they would become a rallying point and have a chance, even in the senate at an early election — Pauline, Cory, Jim Molan (who has just been shafted by the NSW Libs), Andrew Hastie, Mark Latham, Craig Kelly (soon to be dis-endorsed by the Libs), Abbott etc. While ever they remain fragmented they will be wasted.

          As to the language, it’s time to push back and call the Left the Radical or Extreme Left; call the Greens the Rabid Left. There is nothing remotely moderate about any of them.

          50

          • #
            el gordo

            Shorten is happy to have the election in May, feeling confident of winning a bigger landslide.

            I see Morrison winning back the deserters and splitters by absorbing some of their platforms, which would alienate the Coalition moderates. Building new coal fired power stations and pulling out of Paris should be enough to win him the election.

            Then there is the law of unintended consequences ….

            30

  • #
    Robber

    When is Angus Taylor, the Minister for getting electricity prices down, going to act?
    Per AEMO, here are monthly average wholesale prices for Jan-Nov 2018 in $/MWhr.
    NSW 76 – 73 – 67 – 75 – 77 – 101 – 75 – 93 – 93 – 88 – 85 – Avge = $82/MWhr (2015/16 Avge = 52)
    Vic 133 – 97 – 76 – 74 – 80 – 94 – 70 – 79 – 93 – 100 – 96 – Avge = $90/MWhr (2015/16 Avge = 46)
    SA 159 – 109 – 81 – 98 – 89 – 106 – 106 – 72 – 91 – 98 – 98 – Avge = $101/Mwhr (2015/16 Avge = 62)
    Yet we are now hearing even more Liberal government pollies saying we have to roll over – people believe that more solar and wind power in Australia will save the planet.
    And the media keeps reporting that wind and solar are cheaper – so why are we still forced to pay subsidies?
    Look at Victoria. Landslide win to Andrews who announced a renewables target of 25 per cent by 2020 and 40 per cent by 2025.
    Quotes attributable to Premier Daniel Andrews:
    “It’s simple – greater supply of renewable energy means lower power prices and more jobs for Victorian families.”
    “We’re making Victoria the capital of renewable energy and supporting the thousands of local jobs it creates.”
    And Bill Shorten: Labor’s stated ambition of reducing emissions by 45 per cent by 2030, based on a 2005 baseline, and doing so without a price on carbon or a carbon tax. Bill Shorten is promising rebates to 100,000 households to help install batteries and reduce domestic power bills.

    80

  • #
    graham dunton

    David Evans,
    I did email Jim Lakely, The Heartland Institute, and he replied in hours.
    Please send me you email.
    Jim replied
    Graham,
    I’m looking into what happened to the video of that two-day event. Heartland didn’t run the event. Our friends at EIKE did. Unfortunately, the live-stream they had did not automatically archive, so it may be a while until they get the full conference posted.
    I’ll let you know about any updates I hear.
    Best,
    Jim Lakely
    Director of Communications
    The Heartland Institute
    3939 North Wilke Drive
    Arlington Heights, IL 60004
    o: 312-377-4000
    c: 312-731-9364
    Twitter: @HeartlandInst

    Thanks Graham – David.

    50

  • #
    pat

    26 Nov: ClimateDepot: Marc Morano: Climatologist Dr. Pat Michaels on new fed climate report: ‘Systematically flawed’ – Report ‘should be shelved’
    LINK: Michaels’ Full PDF review: Assessment Comment PJMJan31FINAL
    http://www.climatedepot.com/2018/11/26/climatologist-dr-pat-michaels-on-new-fed-climate-report-systematically-flawed-report-should-be-shelved/

    40

  • #
    pat

    watch the video to see the rest of what the President said, which Reuters/ABC are not interested in reporting. too busy quoting Clinton and Gore:

    27 Nov: ABC: Reuters: Donald Trump rejects his own government’s report on climate change
    VIDEO: 29secs
    US President Donald Trump has dismissed a report by his own Government warning of the devastating effects of climate change…
    But Mr Trump said on Monday (local time) he did not believe the economic impacts would be destructive.
    Speaking at the White House, Mr Trump said: “I’ve seen it, I’ve read some of it, and it’s fine.”
    But when asked his thoughts on the severe economic impacts projected in the report, Mr Trump said: “I don’t believe it.”…

    The new report, written with the help of more than a dozen US government agencies and departments, said…
    In a series of tweets on Tuesday, former Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton accused Mr Trump of attempting to bury the report…
    Ms Clinton added: “Combatting climate change is about more than dollars and cents.”
    “It’s a moral imperative.
    “Our children and grandchildren deserve to live on a planet that can support their lives, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.”
    Former US vice-president Al Gore also accused Mr Trump of trying to “hide the truth” by releasing the climate change report on Black Friday…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-27/donald-trump-rejects-us-government-report-on-climate-change/10557258

    not exactly a Trump Admin document. mostly written by the usual CAGW suspects, Katharine Hayhoe, Debra Ekwurzel, etc:

    24 Nov: Voice of America: White House Says Dire Climate Report Based on ‘Extreme Scenario’
    White House Bureau Chief Steve Herman contributed to this report.
    White House spokeswoman Lindsay Walters noted that ***work on the assessment began under the administration of former U.S. president Barack Obama and uses multiple modeling scenarios to assess the effects of climate change. But the report issued Friday, according to Walters, relies too heavily on the worst-case-scenario.

    “The report is ***largely based on the most extreme scenario, which contradicts long-established trends by assuming that, despite strong economic growth that would increase greenhouse gas emissions, there would be limited technology and innovation, and a rapidly expanding population,” Walters said in a statement.

    ***She said the next climate assessment, which will be prepared over the next four years, will “provide for a more transparent and data-driven process that includes fuller information on the range of potential scenarios and outcomes.”

    Walters also pointed out that, since 2005, carbon dioxide emissions related to energy production in the U.S. have declined 14 percent, while global emissions continue to rise…
    https://www.voanews.com/a/white-house-says-dire-climate-report-based-on-extreme-scenario-/4672409.html

    20

    • #
      pat

      at least BBC did quote the President’s other remarks (tho the piece is chock full of CAGW propaganda):

      26 Nov: VIDEO: BBC: Trump on climate change report: ‘I don’t believe it’
      US President Donald Trump has cast doubt on a report by his own government warning of devastating effects from climate change.
      Asked outside the White House about the findings that unchecked global warming would wreak havoc on the US economy, he said: “I don’t believe it.”…

      Mr Trump said other countries must take measures to cut their emissions.
      “You’re going to have to have China and Japan and all of Asia and all these other countries, you know, it [the report] addresses our country,” he said.
      “Right now we’re at the cleanest we’ve ever been and that’s very important to me.
      “But if we’re clean, but every other place on Earth is dirty, that’s not so good.
      “So I want clean air, I want clean water, very important.”…
      https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46351940

      apart from anything else, Trump is talking about the predictions re the US economy, not about the so-called science.

      20

    • #
      AndyG55

      Ms Clinton added……”“Our children and grandchildren deserve to live on a planet that can support their lives, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.””

      Then stop pushing the anti-CO2, erratic anti-science energy policies.

      And above all, STOP PUSHING THE SOCIALIST, ONE-WORLD TOTALITARIAN AGENDA.

      112

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘… written by the usual CAGW suspects…’

      That is politically incorrect.

      https://judithcurry.com/2018/11/26/cagw-a-snarl-word/

      00

  • #
    Another Ian

    “Vehicle Electrification Common Sense”

    “-Start/Stop may make sense for both cases, but Milds do not;

    -Full Hybrids almost always make sense for both cases;

    -Plug Ins do or don’t make sense depending on the architecture;

    -EVs never make sense for either case.”

    Terms explained in

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/11/26/vehicle-electrification-common-sense/

    10

  • #
    pat

    only IOL South Africa has so far carried this Reuters’ report. doesn’t suit the CAGW agenda:

    26 Nov: IOL South Africa: Reuters: Germany postpones decision on coal exit until February
    by Markus Wacket; Additional reporting Gernot Heller and Michael Nienaber
    Germany has postponed until February a decision on how fast Europe’s largest economy should phase out brown-coal-fired power plants and whether the government should compensate utilities as well as regions that could face job losses, a commission said.
    With brown coal mines the only truly domestic resource in a country reliant on energy imports, Germany faces wrangling over when to abandon coal-burning to meet ambitious climate goals by 2030, as it also wants to be free of nuclear energy by 2022.

    The German cabinet has appointed a 24-strong group, the coal commission, to find a compromise deal. It was expected to present an exit plan by the end of the year.
    But after another round of talks in Berlin on Monday, the heads of the coal commission said in a statement that further negotiations were needed and that the group now aimed to wrap up its work on February 1.
    The commission includes Matthias Platzeck and Stanislaw Tillich, former prime ministers of brown coal-mining states Brandenburg and Saxony, which are industrially weak regions.
    Losses of thousands of jobs, even if spread out over years, will hurt both eastern states. In addition, Brandenburg and Saxony will have regional elections next year.

    Economy Minister Peter Altmaier said the postponement of the decision could increase the chances for a broader acceptance of the coal exit plan.
    “I think there is no reason to be disappointed,” Altmaier said, adding that Finance Minister Olaf Scholz, who also participated in the talks on Monday, was trying to fend off calls for extra spending.
    Two people familiar with the talks told Reuters that Scholz has shown little sympathy for paying compensation to operators of brown-coal-fired power plants that could be forced to shut down early.

    Scholz is also sceptical of other measures to help companies cope with the effects of the planned brown coal exit, such as lowering energy tax, two people familiar with the talks said.
    A finance ministry spokeswoman declined to comment…

    The commission will help allocate federal funds for bringing new industries into the regions, such as battery cell research and production.
    Coal-to-power production both from brown coal and imported hard coal accounts for 40 percent of Germany’s total power production, making the exit from coal difficult while maintaining reliable supply to industries and households.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-coal-exit/germany-postpones-decision-on-coal-exit-until-february-idUSKCN1NV24A

    21

    • #
      pat

      very interesting:

      26 Nov: Montel: German coal supply squeeze set to ease on rain – traders
      by Julia Demirdag, Frankfurt
      The expectation of some rain in Germany over the coming ten days will ease some supply bottlenecks to operators of hard coal-fired plants, market sources said on Monday.

      Power prices look set to soften this week due to healthy wind output, one trader said.
      “This will push coal out of the market and buy some time for the operators to get hold of more coal,” he added…
      Record low water levels on the Rhine, Germany’s most important shipping route, have forced operators of hard-coal-fired units to switch to transportation by rail, or even by road.
      Several firms have highlighted transportation issues.
      On Friday, Vattenfall flagged “restrictions on the transportation of coal” for its three Berlin plants with a total capacity of 864 MW, while on Thursday Uniper said coal deliveries to its Scholven D and E units which are by default supplied by rail were “tight.”

      Some rainfall over the coming week should ease supply bottlenecks on river transport, at least in the short-term, traders said.
      Germany should see some rain in the south, impacting Rhine flows, on Monday and Tuesday and then again, every day from 30 November to 5 December, EQ data showed.
      “This is what we need urgently,” said Thomas Schmidt, spokesman for the 2 GW hard coal-fired power plant in the south western city of Mannheim, though output at the plant was currently unaffected.

      German wind power output should average at 26.8 GW this week, compared with 14.5 GW last week, with output ranging from 4.5 GW on Tuesday to as high as 29.5 GW on Thursday, according to EQ data.

      Power plants in the south of Germany are mostly affected, with ENBW warning of hampered coal supply since August.
      The company has tried to supply coal to its power plant in Karlsruhe by lorry as rail transportation is also getting scarce, a source told Montel.
      German rail operator DB Cargo told Montel earlier on Monday that it plans to run additional 10 trains for coal transportation to make up for the impact of the low water levels, up from only 2 extra trains in October.

      “If it gets really cold in January, Germany’s power market could get pretty tight,” another trader said, estimating that over 3 GW of plant capacity could be affected should there be a cold snap early next year.
      https://www.montelnews.com/en/story/german-coal-supply-squeeze-set-to-ease-on-rain–traders/956961

      10

  • #
    pat

    hope the snow sticks around in Poland:

    26 Nov: UK Express: BBC Weather: Europe braced for EXTREME SNOW and TORNADOES to strike continent
    EUROPE is set for some extreme “dreadful” weather as snow hits the northern countries of the continent while tornadoes hit Italy in the Mediterranean, the BBC has warned.
    By Alessandra Scotto di Santolo
    BBC Weather forecaster Tomasz Schafernaker warned the UK will also experience some “dreadful” weather as Storm Diana barrels towards Britain from the Atlantic…
    BBC meteorologist Darren Bett also warned of heavy rain and heavy snow covering the Balkans and most eastern European countries all the way down to Bulgaria as Siberian cold air meets the blustery rain…

    “It’s going to run into that bloc of cold air that is still hanging on there across Scandinavia, into those Baltic states and across Poland, into Germany.
    “Some widespread heavy snowfall all the way from the Balkans to Bulgaria on Wednesday…
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/weather/1050480/BBC-Weather-forecast-UK-snow-latest-news-Italy-tornadoes-video-Europe-Mediterranean

    from the progressive left, another so-called “People’s” stunt. not political, of course!

    26 Nov: Common Dreams: To Boot Big Polluters From COP24, Global Groundswell Backs “People’s Demands for Climate Justice”
    Unified call urges delegates at upcoming United Nations climate conference to come up with “real solutions that are just, feasible, and essential”
    by Andrea Germanos
    With the United Nations conference known as COP24 starting next week, Rep.-elect Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.) drew attention Monday to a document demanding that government delegates to the summit recognize that the “urgency of the climate crisis requires a just response centered on human rights, equity, and justice.”….
    (SIGN ON HERE)

    Entitled The People’s Demands for Climate Justice and endorsed by groups including 350.org, Corporate Europe Observatory, and Focus on the Global South, the international call presents the following to-do list for governments to implement in order to achieve the kind of bold transformation needed to save planet Earth:
    Keep fossil fuels in the ground.
    Reject false solutions that are displacing real, people-first solutions to the climate crisis.
    Advance real solutions that are just, feasible, and essential.
    Honor climate finance obligations to developing countries.
    End corporate interference in and capture of the climate talks.
    Ensure developed countries honor their “Fair Shares” for largely fueling this crisis.

    Specifically, the demands include an immediate ban on new fossil fuel exploration and a moratorium on fracking, as well as a commitment to 100 percent renewable energy by 2030…
    As of this writing, the demands have been supported by over 179,000 signatures spanning 128 countries and 227 organizations…
    https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/11/26/boot-big-polluters-cop24-global-groundswell-backs-peoples-demands-climate-justice

    10

    • #
      pat

      26 Nov: ClimateChangeNews: Global NGO chief suspended after bullying, inappropriate conduct allegations
      Wael Hmaidan is on leave pending investigation of ‘serious complaints’, including from the father of a former Climate Action Network employee who took her own life
      By Megan Darby
      Executive director Wael Hmaidan was put on leave from Climate Action Network International (Can-I) by the board on Wednesday 7 November, pending an independent investigation into “a number of serious complaints”…

      Three letters seen by Climate Home News set out grievances about the organisation’s failure to adequately protect female staff from a range of inappropriate behaviour…
      The third, on 7 November, is signed by 14 former employees and one current Can-I employee. Citing Robert Borday’s letter and “several” complaints from ex-staff, they accused the organisation of failing in its duty of care…READ ALL THE DETAILS

      Can International has a central role in the international climate movement. It connects 1,300 NGOs in 120 countries, according to its website. At UN climate summits, it holds daily press briefings, coordinating campaign messages and shaping the media narrative…

      As head of the network since April 2012, Hmaidan has been a prominent spokesperson, sharing platforms with world leaders. His suspension came in the build up to the crucial Cop24 talks in Poland, which start on Sunday, where he would have played a key role representing global civil society…
      http://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/11/26/global-ngo-chief-suspended-bullying-inappropriate-conduct-allegations/

      10

  • #
    pat

    26 Nov: ClimateChangeNews: Draft G20 statement waters down Paris climate commitment
    Argentinian official says ambiguity over the Paris Agreement is needed to avoid a split with the US, days before critical UN climate talks begin
    By Karl Mathiesen
    The document, seen by CHN, is the latest version of a text that may change before it is released when leaders meet later this week.
    Unlike recent G20 statements, it declines to give full-throated support to the Paris Agreement, simply “acknowledging the different circumstances, including those of countries determined to implement the Paris Agreement”.

    In a nod to those countries defending their coal industries, the text prepared by the Argentinian presidency says there are “varied” energy choices and “different possible national pathways”…

    There is no mention of a major scientific report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), which was released in October; nor any direct reference to the Cop24 climate talks, which start in Katowice, Poland just a day after the meeting ends on Saturday…

    The text contrasts starkly with a communique (LINK) agreed by the foreign ministers of the EU and Central Asia on Friday, which expressed “deep concern” over the IPCC findings and a desire to see countries make progress in Katowice and beyond.

    It also contrasts with the last G20 leaders statement, in which all countries but the US agreed that the Paris Agreement was “irreversible”. The US stood apart, forcing a paragraph to be inserted that noted their wish to withdraw from the deal…

    A former European negotiator, who worked on the G7 and G20 statements in 2017, told Climate Home News the draft would have to change as the climate section was currently “unacceptable” for the ‘G6’ – Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan and the UK.
    “However the changes that the G6 propose won’t be acceptable for the US, so you have a clash there,” said the source…

    Brazil’s Jair Bolsonaro is the environmental story of 2018 ETC…
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/11/26/draft-g20-statement-waters-paris-climate-commitment/

    30

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘The US stood apart, forcing a paragraph to be inserted that noted their wish to withdraw from the deal…’

      It would be a good idea if Morrison did the same, a salvo before Xmas would bring the house down.

      30

  • #
    pat

    behind paywall:

    27 Nov: Herald Sun:
    Kelly O’Dwyer slams Liberal ‘ideological’ warriors
    Cabinet minister Kelly O’Dwyer (Liberal) has told colleagues the Liberals are widely regarded as “homophobic, anti-women, climate-change deniers” as a post-election crisis meeting of federal MPs triggered deep divisions in Canberra.

    27 Nov: SBS: AAP: Minister Kelly O’Dwyer lashes ‘homophobic, anti-women’ Liberals in her party
    Federal Industrial Relations Minister Kelly O’Dwyer has launched an extraordinary spray against “homophobic, anti-women, climate-change deniers” in her party.
    Cabinet Minister Kelly O’Dwyer has told colleagues the Liberals are widely regarded as “homophobic, anti-women, climate-change deniers” during a crisis meeting of federal Victorian MPs…
    https://www.sbs.com.au/news/minister-kelly-o-dwyer-lashes-homophobic-anti-women-liberals-in-her-party

    27 Nov: Bolt blog: JULIA BANKS QUITS LIBS, PARTY SPLITTING
    Julia Banks, a Turnbull supporter, has quit the Liberals to sit as an independent, leaving the Liberals with just 74 of the 150 votes.
    She blasts the “reactionary right” she claims has taken over the Liberals.

    The party is heading for a split, with the Left’s Julie Bishop in revolt, and conservatives like Jim Molan and Craig Kelly being forced out. Tony Abbott’s preselection for the election after next is also in doubt.
    Banks will also certainly join Labor to force out another conservative – Peter Dutton. Like Turnbull, she wants Dutton to be referred to the High Court for a possible breach of the constitution.
    https://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/julia-banks-quits-libs-party-splitting/news-story/846e7d066ddf763b735f7aa825b8b541

    AUDIO: 12min28sec: 26 Nov: 2GB: Ray Hadley show: ‘Is it any wonder the party has a problem’: Tony Abbott ‘bamboozled’ by Jim Molan decision
    https://www.2gb.com/is-there-any-wonder-the-party-has-a-problem-tony-abbott-bamboozled-jim-molan-decision/

    20

  • #
    pat

    27 Nov: ABC: Crossbench joins Julie Bishop and Labor in renewed push for energy agreement
    By political reporter Jackson Gothe-Snape
    Crossbenchers are demanding action on energy following the Government’s decision to abandon its signature policy, the National Energy Guarantee (NEG).

    However they are wary over the role of renewable energy in any potential compromise.
    Liberal MP Julie Bishop, the party’s former deputy leader, announced on Tuesday that she wanted her party to revive the NEG.
    Centre Alliance MP Rebekha Sharkie echoed those calls and urged the Government to find an agreement with Labor, saying the industry needed a bipartisan policy for investment certainty…

    Centre Alliance MP Rebekha Sharkie echoed those calls and urged the Government to find an agreement with Labor, saying the industry needed a bipartisan policy for investment certainty…
    “The NEG is one way that could provide much-needed certainty and reliability for the energy sector,” she told the ABC on Tuesday.
    “It may not be perfect but it is better than the policy vacuum of the current Government.”…

    Tasmanian independent MP Andrew Wilkie was critical of the lack of ambition in the renewable target as part of the NEG put forward by the Liberal Party…

    Since the NEG was scrapped, Victorian independent MP Cathy McGowan has been pressuring Prime Minister Scott Morrison to pursue a responsible energy policy that includes enough support for renewables.
    Former Liberal MP Julia Banks, now sitting on the crossbench, has previously spoken in support of the NEG…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-27/bishop-gets-crossbench-support-on-energy/10557446

    27 Nov: Guardian: #MyClimateQuestions: experts and youth leaders respond – live
    This week, school students plan to go on strike in protest against inaction on climate change. Whether you approve of the strike or not, we welcome your questions, which will be answered here by climate experts and young campaigners
    by Naaman Zhou
    Key events:
    1h ago Should we have a children’s commissioner in parliament?
    1h ago Why aren’t electric cars everywhere?
    2h ago Will the Earth become uninhabitable?
    2h ago Should politicians pass a test on climate?
    2h ago Will the strikes work?
    3h ago What’s one thing I can do?
    3h ago What is clean coal?

    9min ago: Naaman Zhou
    Well that was great.
    Thank you everyone, this has been one of the most rewarding, illuminating blogs I’ve had the joy of running.
    Thanks to our panellists: Bill Hare, Simon Holmes à Court, Amanda McKenzie, Laura Sykes and Piper Albrecht. And thanks to my colleague Lisa Cox.
    Most of all, thanks to all of you for your questions. It’s our future, and I’m glad we got to discuss it.
    The full answers are below, but here’s a list of the best…
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/live/2018/nov/27/myclimatequestions-experts-youth-leaders-respond-live

    10

  • #
    • #
      KinkyKeith

      Thanks harnas

      We need the reminder of the lack of concern for humanity that possesses the warming business.

      Disgusting.

      10

  • #
    pat

    both pieces behind paywall:

    Who knew Labor hated heavy industry this much?
    by Judith Sloan
    The Australian – 23h ago
    Last week, opposition climate change and energy spokesman Mark Butler released the dog’s breakfast this is Labor’s energy policy…

    26 Nov: WSJ: Steve Koonin: The Climate Won’t Crash the Economy
    A worst-case scenario projects annual GDP growth will be slower by 0.05 percentage point.
    Headlines warned of economic doom after the U.S. government released its fourth National Climate Assessment last week. Yet a close reading of the report shows that the overall economic impact of human-caused climate change is expected to be quite small.

    Projecting human-caused changes in the global climate is a major scientific challenge; estimates of the temperature increases due to rising greenhouse-gas concentrations are uncertain by a factor of three. Trying to make projections for a particular region—such as the contiguous U.S., which comprises only 1.6% of the globe’s surface—compounds…
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-climate-wont-crash-the-economy-1543276899

    10

  • #
    pat

    TWEET: 26 Nov: Adam Bandt, Greens: Hey PM, you may have missed this: almost two-thirds of people now want a carbon tax! People think Abbott made the wrong call in repealing it and an Abbott-style scare campaign just won’t work again. No-one believes you.
    @QT via The Australia Institute
    LINKS TO THE FOLLOWING WHICH IS BEHIND PAYWALL
    PressReader – Sunday Herald Sun: 2018-11-25 – Carbon tax call by voters
    by Annika Smethurst
    MORE than two thirds of Labor voters want a tax on carbon, despite the party leaving it…

    from replies to Adam Bandt:
    LOL Adam…they are Australian Labor voters…not people.
    https://twitter.com/AdamBandt/status/1067268424500310016

    TWEET: School Strike 4 Climate
    The Senate just voted for a motion to support the #ClimateStrike and call for the government to have a climate policy! Thanks to everyone who stood on the right side of history, everyone else can get stuffed.
    26 Nov 2018
    from replies:
    #ClimateStrike is now being discussed on #TheDrum (ABC)
    https://twitter.com/StrikeClimate/status/1067301605689585664

    their whole Twitter page tells a politically partisan story:

    Twitter page: School Strike 4 Climate
    re-tweeted:
    ABC The Drum ‏6hours ago
    “These are schoolkids, they will suffer from the fact that we have completely and shamefully botched the issue of climate action. They are the ones who will pay the price for this massive inter-generational theft.” @BernardKeane #auspol #TheDrum
    https://twitter.com/StrikeClimate

    10

  • #
    pat

    given Mars was in the news this week, more evidence of the left’s march through the institutions:

    21 Nov: Gizmodo: Decolonizing Mars: Are We Thinking About Space Exploration All Wrong?
    by Ryan F. Mandelbaum
    Interplanetary travel is pitched to us as a good thing. Explorers will visit other planets, which settlers will then colonize. But colonization on our own planet led to the genocide and displacement of cultures and people, economic inequity, and the destruction of environments. What lessons from Earth’s colonialist tragedies can we apply to our interplanetary future?…

    Lucianne Walkowicz, the NASA/Library of Congress Chair in Astrobiology, hosted an event in September to bring these ideas to the public called “Becoming Interplanetary: What Living on Earth Can Teach Us about Living on Mars.” We chatted with her, as well as event panelists Enongo Lumumba-Kasongo and Chanda Prescod-Weinstein, about what decolonizing Mars means to them. This is just a small snippet of the broader conversation (LINK) that includes well-known scientists, artists, and science fiction writers…

    Lucianne Walkowicz: In my work, I’ve been thinking about issues around how we talk about going to Mars, and plans that people make for what they want to do when they get there—whether it’s living on Mars, doing scientific research and trying to figure out its history, or corporate interest in mining or resource extraction of any kind.
    There are a variety of scientific reasons why human presence might make certain investigations easier on Mars. But I’m disturbed by the way people talk about going to Mars as if the planet is ours… When we talk about terraforming, that’s a planetary-scale strip mining operation. If you transform a planetary environment, even if you think you know how to do it, that represents a total alteration of the chemistry and physics of the planet, which means you may erase the history of life that might be there.
    It’s been troubling to me to hear people erasing what’s going on here on our own planet both from an environmental standpoint and an indigenous rights standpoint when they talk about going to other planets…READ ALL
    https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2018/11/decolonizing-mars-are-we-thinking-about-space-exploration-all-wrong/

    Lucianne Walkowicz Named Blumberg Chair in Astrobiology
    Press Release
    From: Adler Planetarium
    Posted: Monday, July 10, 2017
    Significance: Funded by NASA, and managed by the Kluge Center in consultation with the NASA Astrobiology Institute, the program encourages chair holders to conduct research at the intersection of the science of astrobiology and its humanistic and societal implications…
    http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=51179

    10

  • #
    pat

    quit Paris, Trudeau:

    27 Nov: ClimateChangeNews: Quebec youth launch climate lawsuit against the Canadian government
    Environnement Jeunesse is leading a legal action on behalf of under-35s to demand faster emissions cuts, in line with a 1.5C global warming limit
    By Megan Darby
    The law firm Trudel Johnston & Lespérance, acting pro bono, applied to the Superior Court of Québec on Monday to bring a class action, which Enjeu said was on behalf of the province’s under-35s…READ ON
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/11/27/quebec-youth-launch-climate-lawsuit-canadian-government/

    and who will sue the Govts when their CAGW policies fail so spectacularly?

    24 Nov: Belfast Telegraph: WATCH: (DUP leader) Arlene Foster apologises over RHI scandal at DUP part conference
    The RHI scandal exposed the taxpayer to a huge overspend by paying out more in subsidies than the fuel was worth…READ ON
    https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/watch-arlene-foster-apologises-over-rhi-scandal-at-dup-party-conference-37561360.html

    10

  • #
    pat

    Carbon Brief on NYT/Paul Krugman column below: Krugman, a Nobel prize-winning economist, writes in his New York Times column: “There are almost no good-faith climate-change deniers. And denying science for profit, political advantage or ego satisfaction is not OK; when failure to act on the science may have terrible consequences, denial is, as I said, depraved…Let’s be clear: While Donald Trump is a prime example of the depravity of climate denial, this is an issue on which his whole party went over to the dark side years ago. Republicans don’t just have bad ideas; at this point, they are, necessarily, bad people.”

    26 Nov: NYT: Paul Krugman: The depravity of climate-change denial
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/26/opinion/climate-change-denial-republican.html?utm_campaign=Carbon%20Brief%20Daily%20Briefing&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue%20newsletter

    ABC chooses to run with a piece that puts EVs up front when the story is really about SUVs & trucks:

    27 Nov: ABC: AP: General Motors sheds 14,000 jobs from global workforce amid changing demand for cars
    General Motors will cut up to 14,000 workers in North America and put five plants up for possible closure as it abandons many of its car models and restructures to focus more on autonomous and electric vehicles…

    The restructuring reflects the changing US and North American auto markets as manufacturers continue a dramatic shift away from cars toward ***SUVs and trucks…
    At the factories, around 3,300 blue-collar workers could lose jobs in Canada and another 2,600 in the US, ***but some US workers could transfer to truck or SUV factories that are increasing production…

    In October, almost 65 per cent of new vehicles sold in the US were trucks or SUVs. That figure was about 50 per cent cars just five years ago.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-27/general-motors-sheds-14000-jobs-from-north-america-workforce/10557202

    10

  • #
    Tim Crome

    I attended Jo’s lecture in Oslo last night, she did an excellent job, very entertaining and informative. Thank you.

    The situation with rooftop solar panels in Australia is very similar to that with Electric Cars here in Norway. Those without are being forced to pay more to subsidise those with.

    20

  • #

    Congratulations to your lovely young bride on having her intelligence and communication skills recognized internationally.
    After a course in English as a second language you two should tour America. We have kept our guns but like you folks “down under” are struggling with getting our more reasonable politicians having the courage to acknowledge the truth.
    Trump has oral diarrhea but has the guts to tell the truth and the brains to look for it.
    Write a new version of “The Skeptic’s Case. Thanks partly to your spouse you have learned a lot and would produce valuable facts, judgement and insight.

    00

  • #
    Old Woman of the North

    Since USA rebuilt most of Europe – Marshall Plan, and then stationed forces there which added millions more for the European economy, it is odd to know that most Europeans seem to have an ingrained resentment. I am not sure why. Similarly the UN has been funded mostly by USA and again hatred, and corruption, has been the result.

    In the race to the bottom by Australia and Germany in their pursuit of ‘renewable energy’, which isn’t, I think we will win because we don’t have the brutal cold of Europe; and freezing is a powerful incentive to push for more warmth.

    00

  • #
    Ross

    please explain?

    24

  • #
    Serp

    Something is wrong with the timestamp for this post so that it is always found at the end. (A sporadically recurring phenomenon on this site.)

    20

  • #

    No point, rhetorical, non-evidence seeking, question.

    30

  • #
    Analitik

    Re: Ross

    please explain?

    This seems to happen when someone creates a post that ends up in moderation and then tries replying to it.

    00

  • #
    Serp

    But I was replying to Ross at 2:55 pm, not opening a new entry.

    10

  • #
  • #
    RickWill

    If you want to reply to an existing comment then you need to place the curser on the “Reply” adjacent to the comment and click.

    If you use the comments box below it will create a new numbered comment rather than an indented comment.

    40

  • #
    RickWill

    You are right – there is something wrong with the indexing as this comment should be 45.1. I expect it will end up at 46. Lets see.

    20

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Which is why I’ll pinch this spot to keep it below !

    Just hit me that where we live not one ad for Liberal ,Labor or Green but a ute load for an independent.
    Is this because regional Victoriastan doesn’t exist ?

    50

  • #
    el gordo

    Testing …. testing … 123

    20