JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Unthreaded Party

Majority gone. The Liberals are not paying for the last leadership change, so much as the one before.

Picking a Labor guy to run the Party was never going to end well.

Thank Turnbull (and MP’s that voted for him) for turning a 24 seat majority into one seat rule that he then threw away…

Note to Libs: if the ABC approves, you are doing something wrong.

Latest Count

 

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Rating: 9.5/10 (75 votes cast)
Unthreaded Party, 9.5 out of 10 based on 75 ratings

361 comments to Unthreaded Party

  • #
    TdeF

    Malcolm Turnbull would be pleased to destroy the majority of the Liberal party, except that the seat went to an Independent, not Labor. Lackey Morrison stands for what Malcolm stood for, absolutely nothing.

    It shows how even blue ribbon Liberal seats have been wiped out by the Black Hand, Labor Lite. Christopher Pyne, ex Foreign Minister Julie Bishop and friends can take credit too. Having no policies, no core beliefs is political death. The Climate has changed.

    Has anyone stopped Snowy II? Has anyone thought to ask for the $444million for nothing back? Has any one thought through how useless Pynes diesel submarines will be? Can anyone explain why huge diesel engines are cleaner than coal? Is anyone home in the Liberal or National parties?

    713

    • #
      Just Thinkin'

      ” except that the seat went to an Independent, not Labor. ”

      Well, it went to a worser political party…

      GETUP !

      380

      • #
        ColA

        Can’t run a country with a bunch of undisciplined, gutless, clowns and they just proved that SO CONCLUSIVELY! :-( :-(

        They will soon have at least 3 years to sort themselves out, grow a spine, find some cohesion and earn back the voters respect – that may take more than 3 years!

        In the meantime shorTON the leftards and watermelons will have raped and pillaged our poor country! God help us!!

        90

    • #

      I find the outcome good, as the current Liberal Party does not stand for Australia nor what the majority of Australians believe in. They are completely blinded by what the fake news keeps publishing and, like in the US, the fake news is not on the side of conservatives. As I noted in another forum, I’ve come across jellyfish that have more spine than the current Liberal Party.

      430

      • #
        Dennis

        My experience has been that when sent an email asking obviously too many questions and including too many facts the constituent is either sent a meaningless reply, most often quoting a ministerial media release containing deceptive information, or simply ignored, possibly an automatic acknowledgement response but no answer.

        Questions like why Australia is not supporting President Trump and the US stand against socialism and globalism entrenched at the UN. Why the RET has not been abolished and why power stations are essential for a strong economy. Why the Australian Constitution is being ignored, no referendum to ask the people, to implement UN treaty agendas.

        I now believe that we have effectively a single minded government by associates, the major parties are as one.

        510

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Correct. I have been saying for a long time we are a one ( globalist controlled ) party state.

          Australua is cactus.

          170

        • #
          PeterS

          All good questions Dennis but unfortunately I believe Australians by and large are not mature enough to handle the real answers.

          131

          • #
            el gordo

            Don’t blame the people for this mess, Malcolm Turnbull took the Party to the left and we became a one party state. He once had dreams of being president of the first republic, it was the best he could manage and everything was going swimmingly until the ginger group kicked him out.

            The situation is quite simple, Morrison has to rid the Party of green sentiment to win the unwindable election.

            203

            • #
              ColA

              El gordo, I think your right and wrong!
              Yes, rid the Party of green sentiment.
              Knowing he can not win the next election so smash shorTONs CAGWatoloy at every turn and tell the people how much his religion is going to cost them, keep the focus in the voters pocket.
              Spend the next 3 years, to regroup, rebuild the conservatives back to grass roots, find a spine, find cohesion, establish trust, get real policies backed by a real party that voters can trust!

              And SCREAM every time shorTON puts his hand near the Climate Wallet and make him prove in Parliament that what ever he wants to do is justified and will make more than a nattsarse different to the temperature. I believe David Evens and Co are right and as the temperature continues to drop, as it has since 2016, shoTON will have no leg to stand on and be seen to be the leftard, idiot, commies they really are!

              30

        • #
          PeterS

          Australia was once a great nation and an envy to others. Over time the people have let it be destroyed. We get the governments we deserve.

          220

          • #
            PeterS

            However, I am willing to be proven wrong on the maturity point given we have not had even one good party to select from for a long time. So it could be that Australians by and large indeed are mature enough but they are all let down by the vacuum created. It’s hard to know which is right but one thing is for sure. If the two major parties continue the way they are it won’t make any difference, we will crash and burn.

            101

            • #
              Dennis

              I have been wondering if Cory Bernardi resigned from the Liberal Party and formed Australian Conservative Party if that move was not strategic, like minded Liberal MPs who are battling the takeover of their party by people known as Black Hand Faction led by Turnbull, while most remained Liberal MPs to do their best to save the party?

              And that now releasing that is an impossible mission that they will soon announce their resignations and that they will be members of the ACP. After all 40 of 85 Liberal MPs did not vote for PM Morrison. How many Nationals are there who would join the exodus to join ACP? And would other minor parties decide to join the third major party in time for the next federal election?

              Make Australia Great Again.

              Stand alongside President Trump and our US allies against the UN based would be controllers of the world.

              331

              • #
                robert rosicka

                Excellent summary Dennis I think you’ve nailed it .

                100

              • #
                PeterS

                Yes Dennis that’s a possibility. I posted a similar thought many weeks ago. Give Morrison a bit more time to see if he does turn into a lion and not stay as a sheep. If he refuses to be a true Liberal and do the right thing for the nation, such as doing something that’s real and not just talk talk talk to reduce our power prices then I would love to see the LNP crash and burn at the next election to make way for a new party. I think we need one anyway given there is so much white anting in the LNP.

                102

              • #
                PeterPetrum

                I joined the ACP some time ago. I have always voted Liberal since we came to this country in 1966, but I could not vote for it with Turnbull at the helm and jumped ship (to keep the metaphor going).

                From what I can gather from the internal communications we get both from HO and our local Branch (Orange in country NSW) it looks like at the next election we are concentrating on getting a solid representation in the Senate in order to have a chance of controlling the agenda. It is highly likely that the Coalition will be the Opposition (it might even be a minority opposition, the way it is going) so we have very dangerous times coming up. It may be that some Libs might jump ship, but Tony will not be one of them. We will have to hope that the ACP and ON will have a controlling block or we are lost for at least four, maybe eight years.

                180

              • #
                el gordo

                Political reality dictates that the ACP will remain a splinter group.

                Dennis when Cory returned from the US, having witnessed close up the excitement of the Trump ascendancy, Cory hoped that the charismatic qualities of that election could translate to Australia.

                It might have worked, except that Donald didn’t say CO2 doesn’t cause global warming and the sceptic politicians here would have cheered, particularly the Independents.

                Now its up to Morrison, political science forecasting in this environment is next to impossible.

                21

              • #
                el gordo

                ‘We will have to hope that the ACP and ON will have a controlling block or we are lost for at least four, maybe eight years.’

                A political wasteland looms large, but if ACP and ON start talking about climate change science then they can slowly join their platform before the election.

                Saying outrageous stuff is nothing new to Cory and Pauline, outliers who could put on Donald’s charismatic cloak and create an upset.

                If every second story on Cory’s blog was about the ramifications of climate change delusion, then he would become a media sensation.

                41

              • #
                AndyG55

                If every second story on Cory’s blog was about the ramifications of climate change delusion, then he would become a media sensation.”

                The majority of people would never even see it.

                20

              • #
                el gordo

                The MSM would pick it up, starting with Sky.

                00

            • #
              OriginalSteve

              Australians havent really had to fight for thier freedoms, so they get complacent. This is why Americans are so big on liberty, as they had to throw the British out.

              Australians will wake up, probably when they lose thier freedoms. One downside of being a nation with a convict mindset is that there isnt a push for bettering themsves, and also readily accept what they are told. Australians have also had the Socialist govts hand in thier pockets with handouts from social security that they rarely question the govt supplied money but readily accept and are conditioned by the intrusive tradeoff that comes with it…..

              90

              • #
                el gordo

                Centrelink is tightening the screws on the unemployed and pensioners, I blame Morrison.

                Steve we are no different to China, Russia or America in an economic sense, we are all mixed economies.

                ‘A mixed economic system allows a level of private economic freedom in the use of capital, but also allows for governments to interfere in economic activities in order to achieve social aims. … The economy of Australia is one of the largest mixed market economies in the world, with a GDP of US$1.525 trillion as of 2014.’

                The Mixed Market Economy of Australia by Morgan Glaze on Prezi
                https://prezi.com/gllsawdjkrlw/the-mixed-market-economy-of-australia/

                50

        • #
          theRealUniverse

          Its called ‘democracy’ i.e. we dont want to know what you (the proletariat) think.

          30

      • #
        Bobl

        Maybe except the winner is a deep deep green, think Adam Bandt level self delusion, which is interesting itself because the one seat in Australia that might be like Wentworth is Adam ant’s seat. Inner city rich kids who have barely ever seen “the land” much less had to care for any of it.

        100

    • #
      PeterS

      Turnbull should have lost the election in the first place. He almost did for the same reason as to why Morrison lost Wentworth. It’s time the LNP implemented rules never to knife their elected PM except in very rare circumstances, such as committing a criminal act or some other serious action. The ALP have made it harder to do it, now it’s time the LNP to follow suit.

      77

      • #
        Dennis

        Based on the strong rebuke of Labor by Liberal MP Turnbull when they replaced PM Rudd after he led Labor into government in November 2007.

        sarc.

        41

    • #
      Albert

      The ”unbiased” ABC last night was attacking the LNP member more than Labor was, it was like watching the ”unbiased” Q&A. The Labor commentator said the swing shows we need a general election as the people want a party with policies. How did she read so much into a bi election swing when Labor did not pick up the swinging voters and the swing went to the popular new independent who got less primary votes than LNP

      190

      • #
        Phillthegeek

        How did she read so much into a bi election swing when Labor did not pick up the swinging voters and the swing went to the popular new independent who got less primary votes than LNP

        Because, she knows that the ALP campaign in Wentworth was oriented to getting Phelps elected and was successful in that sense. Phelps was the best place to take it off the Libs, and best placed to actually hold the seat at a general election. Remember, this is blue ribbon Liberal territory.

        71

    • #

      “Has anyone stopped Snowy II? Has anyone thought to ask for the $444million for nothing back? Has any one thought through how useless Pynes diesel submarines will be? Can anyone explain why huge diesel engines are cleaner than coal? Is anyone home in the Liberal or National parties?”

      These are very important points. The Libs have lost the will to survive, très European.

      I have some contacts in the Wentworth Libs. They told me the money and resources which flowed to Turnbull (unless you believe those were really his own millions) flowed to Phelps overnight.

      Like Turnbull, Phelps is an inarticulate oaf who blathers a lot of globalist guff and stands for nothing. Empty, pretentious, pushy…and common as muck. Perfect for Wenty, she will be loathed in the wider electorate, just like Malcolm.

      Why do the Liberals tolerate any residue of Turnbull? TdeF raises four points which they can and must address to distinguish themselves from the Labor cynics, the posh Greens and the GetUp! Left.

      ScoMo, if we want cynicism, green waste, crony spending and Big Brother globalism we know where we can get them. They’re on sale everywhere; they’re all a fed-up public can find when offered a choice. What are you going to offer that’s any different?

      200

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        Its hard to tell where the corruption (money goes) starts and stops (if ever) we are all mushrooms, fed on BS and kept in the dark.

        110

    • #
      James Poulos

      Hold the payout – postal votes not in – still may be an upset at the post – Sharma may yet win.

      120

    • #
      Phillthegeek

      Has anyone thought to ask for the $444million for nothing back?

      Actually, yes, the ALP has put them on notice that they want it back after the election. :)

      90

      • #

        Yeah, Labor needs that money for the left handed LGBTQIA+ surboard shapers collective Union.

        Tony.

        162

        • #
          shannon

          Agree Tony…..Labor will have it “ear marked” for a popular project !
          Considering there is NO money in the kitty …they will definitely be reliant on those millions !!

          30

        • #
          James Murphy

          some of my best friends are left handed!

          Actually, I think Labor will be pushing both “Australia must become a republic” and “change Australia Day”. Both useless, pointless activities, but it will provide the left handed LGBTQIA+ surboard shapers collective Union some experience to draw upon when their pointless topic reaches the top of the list.

          20

        • #

          My take is that Labor leaders are owned cynics since the 1970s. Calwell’s deep Catholicism, Whitlam’s Jacobinism may have disturbed many (Gough sure disturbed me), but they were genuine motivations of individuals who were only compromised to a degree. These individuals could only have flourished in an actual party of labour. Maybe Whitlam was the beginning of the cynicism, maybe he was the by-product of the artificially created youth and counter-culture.

          With Hawke (CIA and mob-connected) the real cynicism began…and it has just gotten worse. Labor leaders are now totally compromised and cynical or they’re not there for long. Gillard was a confection (remember the boosting by Alan Jones and Andrew Bolt before they tore her down?) and there to do a job for plutocrats while becoming a plutocrat herself. The money was just a bonus of course, the main agenda being something else again, that something we call “globalism” because we can’t find a word that doesn’t sound like something out of the movies or X Files. (Yes, Hollywood, on purpose and under instructions, actually makes real things unreal by presenting them over and over as fiction.)

          But with sublime ingenuity, the permanent state, in league with all media and influence points, managed to insert a leftist dolt into the leadership of the Liberal Party and actual government. The said leftist dolt proceeded to do the insane deals which were expected of him before public detestation got the better of the best laid plans. Faux conservatives on the state level were doing their thing, running up debt to build the unwanted and unneeded infrastructure for Sustainable Development etc, but it’s hard to beat an actual Posh Left PM ruling as a Lib.

          Think it can’t get worse?

          Look hard at Shorten. Whatever lies beyond pure cynicism, it’s right there in Shorten’s face.

          71

  • #
    Hanrahan

    I’m still gathering my thoughts on this debacle and Turnbull’s bastardly but I am totally engrossed by US politics because if they fail, we all fail, Australia’s only independent thought I can remember was Abbott’s attitude towards the boats in general and the lifeboats he had on standby. Brilliant!!!!

    But as an Aussie born during the war I am fully aware of the US’s sacrifices in the war EVENTUALLY. With two years notice why were they so ill-prepared, so ill-trained? DYOR if you think I exaggerate.

    That said I have just had the words of The Star Spangled Banner explained, and it is a moving story. beats the sh!t out of our dirge. Overdramatised? Maybe, but what the heck.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7BMjS9vhVI

    190

    • #
      PeterS

      The West will fail eventually. Trump is just a temporary ray of sunshine in the storm the West is currently experiencing. The number one issue is debt. It’s a time bomb and when it explodes (not a matter of if – it will 100% guarantee explode) The West will come crumbling down and other nations, such as Russia and China will come in and pick up what’s left like vultures.

      94

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        The russians have almost completely sold off its US debt and got rid of all its USD holdings, China likewise. The BRICS nations are setting up a competitor to the US dominated SWIFT monetary transfer system, and will soon start using another currency globally to buy oil.

        The deal with the Saudis was to sell oil only using USD, but now the kingdom on Saud looks like it might go under ( its been self inflicted injury aka its been “Kashoggied”) and its become a pariah.

        Interesting times….

        112

        • #
          PeterS

          Russia and China have not kept secret their plan to remove the US dollar from its reserve currency status. When that happens the US dollar will come crashing down, and given its multi-trillion debt it will be the final nail in the coffin.

          72

          • #
            el gordo

            The yuan will become a parallel currency, there is room enough for both to operate. With the US moving towards isolation its probably best to let the market decide.

            31

        • #
          theRealUniverse

          “Saud looks like it might go under” watch this space , but the real truth is VERY ugly, depends on where you read, I think it will be whitewashed and ‘business as usual’ will prevail.

          31

        • #
          James Murphy

          I don’t think the US will cede their proxy power in the Middle East to anyone, not voluntarily via genuinely effective sanctions anyway.

          Whatever action, if any, taken against Saudi will be symbolic, and pointless. Saudi Arabia will continue to commit crimes against humanity in Yemen, against their own people, and against the West in general, without serious repercussions.

          50

      • #
        Latus Dextro

        The West will fail eventually.

        Not so fast.
        The Left will fail inevitably.
        Wedded as it is to an ever expanding welfare state and the ticket to power that it allegedly provides, the collectivist SJW NPC identity politics guarantees its inevitable demise. China is headed the same way under its communist totalitarian regime.

        Meanwhile, conservative, nationalist, re-traditionalisation that sees the enforcing of cultural, economic and border security is underway in Europe, pushing back against the post-modern secular globalism and its Rainbow ideology. Such conservatism has yet to reach Oceania, with the possible exception of Samoa, which recently declared in a constitutional amendment that it is a Christian State.

        As the UK, Canada, Australia and NZ struggle under the a Leftist four way lock-down by regulators, administrators, educators and propagators, it is difficult to immediately see what will shake the people out of their social narcosis.

        List of countries by public debt makes an interesting study.
        Net 2017 government debt as a % of GDP is led by Japan at 153%.
        The US sits at 82.3%, UK at 78.9%, Australia at 19.1%, NZ at 4.6%.

        Debt is undeniably a major issue, and a future risk. It is important to deal with, but it appears of far greater importance to address the underlying political ‘permissions’ that lead to such debt.

        What is worse, what leads to greater chaos, debt or that quaint euphemism, qualitative easing, or tortuous job destroying regulations, eco-policies and ‘five year plans’?
        Hussein O cheerfully defended the complete absence of manufacturing jobs in the US. No one dared bat an eyelid. Now 400,000 new manufacturing jobs have been created under POTUS DJT administration, and 4 million new jobs altogether.

        Several ways present in which debt may be overcome. Creating new wealth, greater wealth and prosperity through liberty, reduced regulations and smarter deals offers a number of avenues.

        The analysis is not so simple and the media chatter regarding the debt rarely drills into the data. Fortunately others do.

        A secular trend of borrowing

        Many people may be aware of the ballooning US government debt, which is now approaching $20 trillion in 2017. What may not be obvious, however, is that since 2009 the total debt outstanding in the US (including consumer, business, and government debt) has actually dropped when compared to GDP. In fact, the ratio of total us debt to GDP peaked in 2009/Q1 around the 400% mark and has since steadily decreased.

        The Left despises the individual, fears independence and does not trust the acquisition of wealth through personal endeavour because it is deemed as exploitative.
        Thus, the Left does not have an answer for debt. That much at least is clear.
        This brings us back to the beginning then; the Left will eventually fail.

        171

        • #
          Sceptical Sam

          The only way to effectively deal with debt the size of that existing in the USA, is to grow yourself out of it.

          Unleash the economy; deregulate, reduce taxes – especially business related taxes – reduce government spending (and borrowing), open up energy policy to enable fracking and access to the currently prohibited areas, free up the labour market, endure rigorous protection of private property including intellectual property and get government out of the way.

          That’s what President Trump is doing.

          The rabid left, the secular globalists, the greens and the communist subversives are working very hard to sabotage the recovery in the USA.

          If Trump fails it’s good night nurse. Good night Irene.

          70

          • #
            Sceptical Sam

            endure = ensure.

            00

          • #
            sophocles

            deregulate, reduce taxes – especially business related taxes

            … which are exactly the causes of that huge debt.
            switch the Federal revenue from inflationary Income Tax to deflationary land tax and push the states into that as well and the economy will make like a high speed motor boat, as it did before, during and, for a short while, after WW2.

            00

    • #
      Latus Dextro

      I am totally engrossed by US politics because if they fail, we all fail …

      Ditto.

      In the Leftist delusional microcosm on the other side of the Tasman, where the globalist totalitarians have banned free-speech and the Rainbow Cult impose ‘super diversity’ on State bureaucracies courtesy of the UK’s ‘Common Purpose’, the economy much like the $ is waning, business confidence is locked in an inescapable black hole, and the coalition of losers led by Soros clone, Comrade Ardern, former President and doyen of the International Union of Socialist Youth does what the Left loves to do, taxes and regulates.

      New Zealand is a canary in the globalists coal mine.

      171

      • #

        Engrossed in US politics. yes, me too.

        ‘Oh, say! can you see by the dawn’s early light
        What so proudly we hailed at the twilight’s last gleaming;
        … Oh, say! does that star-spangled banner yet wave
        O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave? ‘

        120

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        It was heading that way under madame Clark too, she also wanted to be UN Sec General.

        50

      • #
        sophocles

        Latus Dextro said:

        New Zealand is a canary in the globalists coal mine.

        New Zealand is in an even worse position than that: it’s the World Bank’s economic policy laboratory. There are Professors of Economix from the US seconded to the NZ Reserve Bank through the World Bank, (I don’t know about the Treasury but why wouldn’t I be at all surprised?)
        whose brief covers two things:
        1. prevent NZ from backsliding into what the WB regards as Socialism
        2. implement their economic ideas no matter how ruinous they are so long as they aren’t Socialist. If they don’t work, the next government can swap them out.

        Most of the Economists in the RB are brainwashed trained at the World Bank for several years anyway.

        50

  • #
    Mr Farnham

    No doubt the press will make a big deal of this result in the so called “referendum on climate change”

    120

    • #
      GD

      I suspect that a large number of Wentworth voters are Greens disguised as Blue ribbon Liberals. That would explain the massive increase for the Libs when Turnbull took the seat from Peter King. These silvertails in Wentworth can’t admit to being Labor or Greens supporters, although they support the climate change and refugee policies held by the Greens and Labor.

      Turnbull was a perfect fit for them. No wonder they were so angry when Turnbull got dumped. Then along comes Phelps, who ticks all the lefty boxes, and there is your majority.

      Dave Sharma had no chance.

      180

      • #
        Binny Pegler

        Asking Wentworth voters if they think the Gov should ‘do’ somthing about Climate change is basically asking if, ‘One should keep up with the latest fashions’ “Of cause darling!”
        If you had asked if the Gov should ‘do’ something about people who wear tracky dacks in public. The response would have been even more enthusiastic.

        40

    • #
      el gordo

      Which would be an unfair comparison Mr Farnham, the Wentworth electorate has an over abundance of women and they have accepted the view that climate change is caused by humans.

      Out in the bush we tend to believe that global warming is caused by the sun,

      180

      • #
        David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

        G’day e g,
        It wouldn’t surprise me if they equate climate change with “Climate Change”, agree with the first and vote for the second.
        Cheers,
        Dave B

        10

    • #
      Robdel

      Nothing will change until the lights go out.

      220

    • #
      TedM

      Yes and yet all it will demonstrate is the scientific illiteracy of the Wentworth elite.

      50

    • #
      Albert

      Nowhere on Earth have we seen the extremes of the last 200 years

      211

    • #

      I checked the Telegraph headlines (no I don’t subscribe and won’t) just to see if there was any news on the margin closing in Wentworth. It seems that despite the relentless boosting Phelps has been identified even by Wentworth voters as a piece of work.

      Anyway, there was Miranda Devine, false friend of climate skeps and conservatives, telling the world what the Libs got wrong.

      What they got wrong is Turnbull. What we all got wrong is Miranda. I’ve noticed that she’s a money snob, maybe that’s her problem. But you don’t escort Dracula to the blood bank and then complain when there’s no blood left.

      110

    • #
      James Murphy

      The ABC cannot hide its jubilation with this election result. This speaks volumes.

      50

  • #
    Kinky Keith

    Having watched Australian politics with some interest on the inside workings and self reward systems used since 1974 nothing surprises me now.

    The electricity crisis, and it is a crisis, seems not to be of great concern to our Parliament and their focus is on getting power and holding it rather than giving the country Guidance and Direction.

    As TdeF says effectively, no direction locally with Hanrahan painting reminding of the current political shambles on the world stage.

    This is not a time to be playing games with our future; Where are our leaders?

    Australian politics is a worry, sometimes we only find out what our leaders are truly about after they retire.

    Look at the afterlife of Beltless Malcom Frazer and Solar John Hewson.

    Leadership?

    KK

    290

  • #
    James McCown

    Could my fellow global warming disbelievers please help me with something?

    I often try to debate the science of AGW with the warmists. They usually resort to something like “YOU DON’T BELIEVE IN SCIENCE!” and then run away. Occasionally the debate gets a little further than that.

    I try to point out to them that the infrared absorption spectrum of CO2 is mostly masked by that of water vapor, and the spectra of CH4 and N2O are completely masked. There is only a small band centered at approx 15 microns where the CO2 is actually effective at contributing to the radiative forcing. But that it is already absorbing about 100% of the infrared in that band. Therefore, adding more CO2 will have little or no effect.

    Sometimes the warmists will claim that since the water vapor will inevitably leave the atmosphere in a few days through the precipitation cycle, that it has little or no effect. And that CO2 absorbing infrared has a much greater effect because it stays in the atmosphere longer.

    I think it doesn’t matter that H2O leaves the atmosphere more quickly. It doesn’t have to stay very long, and since the earth’s surface is 2/3 covered by the oceans, there is a ready supply of H2O to evaporate and take it’s place in the atmosphere.

    When either an H2O or CO2 molecule (or CH4 or N2O) absorbs a photon of infrared energy, it will almost immediately pass that energy on to other molecules in the atmosphere by colliding with them. 99% of the time, they will collide with either an N2 or O2 molecule.

    Can any of you see any holes in my argument? What can I say to convince them that the fact that water vapor undergoes the precipitation cycle and leaves the atmosphere in a few days is irrelevant?

    Mostly recently I debated a very patronizing warmist named Heather Price on twitter (@huprice). She claims she has a PhD in chemistry.

    Any help will be greatly appreciated.

    260

    • #
      Global Cooling

      Political debates like yours are about plausibility, not about facts. She will win the debate if the readers believe her whether or not she is right. Most of readers does not understand what you are talking about, not to say that they understand if you had the winning argument. Being a PhD in Chemistry is more appealing for them.

      Radiation physics debate continues here and in WUWT forever. Select another talking point. AGW is full of holes. Select something that everyone can understand.

      240

    • #
      PeterS

      It’s a total waste of time talking to a believer in CAGW. They are committed and no fact or real evidence will change their opinion. The unknown is the proportion of the public who are in that state of mind. If it’s high enough we will have Shorten as PM soon for sure no matter how good Morrison explains the truth about climate change, which up to now he has been a total failure. Now that Wentworth is over he has a clear run to explain the truth like his life depended on it. If he doesn’t as far as I’m concerned I hope the LNP receives the same sort of treatment at the next federal election as they did at Wentworth. I’m rapidly coming to the conclusion the LNP needs to be burnt to the ground and a new party come out of the ashes or another party to come in and replace it. I give Morrison one last chance. If he keeps wasting it with his double speak and no action politics on energy he might as well follow the same path as Turnbull.

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      • #
        theRealUniverse

        “They are committed and no fact or real evidence will change their opinion. ” true, about sums it up. I have one discussion with a work colleague and ended up sending him a paper on the GHG falsification. He never brought up the subject again ;)

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    • #
      Kinky Keith

      Good outline, no holes.

      Just pray that the Sun comes up tomorrow.

      We all need to understand that our biggest worry is that we may not be able to hold on to the precious little Solar Energy We are Blessed with every day.

      There is a Big Heat Sink waiting to collect any heat we lose and it’s only 5,000 metres overhead.

      We need to get things in proportion.

      KK

      70

    • #
      pattoh

      If the APA sale happens that, via the short cycle gas turbine supply, will not be far away.

      20

    • #
      RobK

      James,
      Water is a condensing radiative gas. By virtue of convection and the latent heat of condensation, it is effectively a heat pump, transfering surface heat to the upper atmosphere to be radiated to space. It dwarfs any effect of CO2 by shear weight of numbers and is the buffering feed back that has prevented runaway temperature on earth for longer than man has walked the planet.(the rain part of your comment is condensate returning to earth after giving up its latent heat, ready to absorb some more and take it high in the sky)

      230

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      Regarding the PhD.

      Very few understand that there’s a Big gap between those trained in Pure Science and Engineers.

      In nearly all instances the PhD person will be effectively untrained in application of science to the complex interactions present in global warming.

      Principal among these errors is the belief that there are Global Warming Models. There aren’t.

      KK

      100

    • #
      Crakar24

      James far too much detail remember they are the dumbest of the dumb. All you can do is destroy their blankets of co2 theory, the result won’t change but you never know one may actually stop and think for a moment. In short stop wasting your time they are beyond help now.

      110

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        James:
        Query the “CO2 traps heat” decoy by asking about deserts where it get cold at night (very cold in dry Antarctica) and very hot during the day, whereas in the tropics the days are lower in temperature but the nights stay warmer. If CO2 is “trapping heat” then why doesn’t it work in the hottest regions?
        (Possibly avoid Antarctica and chose Qld where the temperature response differs from that on the coast to inland).

        80

        • #
          James McCown

          Thanks, Graeme. That’s a good approach. I’ll remember that.

          Especially since even an idiot can understand that humidity is low in the air over deserts. (But AGW believers can be worse than idiots).

          50

          • #
            Bobl

            Two approaches I recommend. A) 3.7 watts psm raises the earth 3.3 Dec according to the IPCC but by SB theorem 3.3 degrees would cause 16deg of surface emission ask how there can be more outgoing energy than incoming and have a heating result?

            B. If your chemist is a pharmacy type chemises then tackle the morality of killing grannies and babies by making winter heating and summer cooling unaffordable. IE 800 heat delayed deaths vs 40,000 cold related. Using food as fuel. Throw in the evidence that grid scale wind and solar do not ever pay back their Co2 debt ( create more Co2 than coal), are extremely wasteful (last less than 15 years) are more toxic than lead, destroy environment on huge scale start bushfires and are fragile ( look at Haiti renewable damage and the SA incident). The renewable energy “industry” consumes at least 50% of all renewable energy consumed. The nett production is less than 50%. Point out how immoral creating that level of waste, and vulnerability for the weakest people is.

            Make sure you differentiate between roof top solar and grid scale. The economics are quite different because you don’t need to clear land and build structures and transmission lines and control centre/ substation infrastructure for rooftop.

            Roof top solar is about 20-50% Co2 negative (saves 20% – 50%of the co2 debt, but grid scale solar is 20% – 50% CO2 positive it only ever produces 60% of the CO2 that was produced in building because of all the concrete and aluminium, and the fact that land has to be paved over (loss of sinks)

            10

            • #
              Bobl

              For an industrial chemist try this – CO2 is in the atmosphere emitting photons in all directions, because the earth is a sphere more photons go to space than ground. If the number of CO2 molecules per unit area increases (CO2 concentration increases) how can we expect the number of photons to space (emission) to decrease? How can an increased emission of photons to space cause heating?

              Pose this as a question because it will make them actually think!

              20

    • #
      ghl

      James
      It does not matter what the residence time is, if it is continually replaced. The concentration can remain constant regardless of turnover.

      90

    • #
      NB

      Get out of the specific issue. It is unlikely you will be able to provide an argument about detail that is compelling for someone inclined not to believe it.

      1) Your task is not to win a fact based argument, but to persuade. What is persuasive can be different for each person. Try to find their points of doubt, and expand on these.

      2) Cast doubt on the phrase ‘the science is settled’.
      My take is to say something like ‘If the science is settled, then why are there so many models showing so many different outcomes? Why do so many of those outcomes not come to pass? How is it that the underlying science cannot provide data for more consistent models?

      3) Appeal to their reason not by argument but by pointing them to a website like JoNova or Wattsupwiththat. Let them know there are some interesting arguments there, though some you disagree with. They, too, are free to disagree with those arguments, but they do make for interesting reading and discussion. Also point them to scientists who oppose AGW, such as Ivar Giaever, Nobel winner.

      In short, don’t try to win the argument, just introduce various wedges.

      110

    • #
      WXcycles

      Humidity – Look at the scale on the bottom right.
      https://www.windy.com/-Humidity-rh?rh,-21.780,162.246,3,i:pressure

      Relative humidity – Look at the scale by pressing ‘Earth’ button on the bottom left.
      https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/surface/level/overlay=relative_humidity/orthographic=-156.00,-1.10,300

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    • #
      OriginalSteve

      I just ask them to prove thier models have been correct. Of course they cant.
      Dont be afraid to go tie to toe with them either – they are bullies at heart, and once they cant provide facts they get nasty. I just keep asking them for scientific proof and they eventually detonate and expise thier stupidity for all to see.

      The CAGW nonsense is at its heart a cult that doesnt allow questioning. Science is about discovery abd inquiry, a cult us about locking peopke down under restrictive control.

      Ask them for proof, and if they cant provide it, then they cant win the argument. You will need a strong stomach, but NEVER EVER back off.

      71

      • #
        James McCown

        Good points, Steve. I kept asking Heather Price for citations that show (A) The number or severity of tropical cyclones are increasing, and (B) The oceans are warming. She didn’t respond. LOL.

        30

      • #
        Annie

        Sorry Steve, accidental touch on red while dozing off!

        00

        • #

          I was just thinking about that, Annie, and thought that perhaps Joanne could separate the icons by a couple of inches to help prevent this commonly cited reason for a thumbs-down.

          00

    • #
      Andrew McRae

      But that it is already absorbing about 100% of the infrared in that band. Therefore, adding more CO2 will have little or no effect.

      At what altitude? At what latitude? Start thinking about the situation in more dimensions instead of 2D.

      And that CO2 absorbing infrared has a much greater effect because it stays in the atmosphere longer.

      Is there any scale of size or time in which that might be true? It could be true for interglacial to glacial transitions. Or indeed any time the absolute humidity drops, such as at 4am every day. Also look at what AGW theory predicted about the Diurnal Temperature Range and why did they predict this?

      the fact that water vapor undergoes the precipitation cycle and leaves the atmosphere in a few days is irrelevant?

      Irrelevant to the climate of earth generally, or irrelevant to CAGW? Might be different answers depending on the precise question.

      Reducing uncertainty requires doing work. No matter what we tell you it will not be enough, you’ll still have to read and understand original sources of information about the atmosphere.

      20

      • #
        James McCown

        At what altitude? At what latitude? Start thinking about the situation in more dimensions instead of 2D.

        My understanding is that either the H2O vapor or CO2 will absorb the infrared in the first 20 – 30 feet above the surface of the earth. Although some of it gets re-emitted.

        Is there any scale of size or time in which that might be true? It could be true for interglacial to glacial transitions. Or indeed any time the absolute humidity drops, such as at 4am every day. Also look at what AGW theory predicted about the Diurnal Temperature Range and why did they predict this?

        I honestly have no idea why they make this claim at all.

        Irrelevant to the climate of earth generally, or irrelevant to CAGW? Might be different answers depending on the precise question.

        The warmists have been claiming that the water vapor is irrelevant to the radiative forcing (i.e. absorbing infrared energy) and that only CO2 matters. I don’t buy their argument.

        40

        • #
          el gordo

          ‘It’s true that water vapor is the largest contributor to the Earth’s greenhouse effect. On average, it probably accounts for about 60% of the warming effect. However, water vapor does not control the Earth’s temperature, but is instead controlled by the temperature.

          ‘This is because the temperature of the surrounding atmosphere limits the maximum amount of water vapor the atmosphere can contain. If a volume of air contains its maximum amount of water vapor and the temperature is decreased, some of the water vapor will condense to form liquid water.

          ‘This is why clouds form as warm air containing water vapor rises and cools at higher altitudes where the water condenses to the tiny droplets that make up clouds.’

          ACS

          20

          • #
            Robber

            But if the temperature rises, doesn’t more water vapor enter the atmosphere making more clouds that act as a blanket to stop daytime temperatures rising? And then add the heat required to evaporate the water. Of course at night the cloud blanket also reduces night time cooling. Hmm, computer modelling required?

            40

            • #
              el gordo

              Good point Robber, a wayward jetstream should produce more cloud cover, Stephen Wilde was ahead of his time.

              10

        • #
          theRealUniverse

          “The warmists have been claiming that the water vapor is irrelevant to the radiative forcing (i.e. absorbing infrared energy) and that only CO2 matters. I don’t buy their argument.”
          None is there is NO radiative forcing. So true. Backradiation breaks the the 2nd law.

          21

    • #
      el gordo

      James put this on your phone and tell them that there is reason to believe we are about to fall into hole.

      https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Carbon-14-content-of-tree-rings-illustrating-the-Oort-Wolf-Spoerer-and-Maunder-minima_fig14_251435151

      The Oort is the most likely contender.

      10

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Ask them about how they interpret the Stephan-Boltzman relation and how the atmosphere isnt a black body, see how they react then.

      60

    • #
      Jonesy

      I always enjoy pointing out that all Australian industry puts out about 570MtCO2 (..and falling) every year…the combined population of China and India BREATH 830MtCO2 (..and increasing) per year. No one EVER talks about populations. Termites and zooplankton dwarf all other animals for co2 production..us included..In the Antarctic, the southern ocean Zooplankton produces 600MtCO2 alone. Termites produce 2% of the total world production of CO2. Kilogram for kilogram there is 10 times more termites than humans..and they also produce huge amounts of methane and nitrous oxide…have fun

      I wouldn’t be surprised that Australia would be very close to carbon neutral or even a sink. David Evans would know.

      60

    • #
      sophocles

      I don’t believe in Science. I know it and what I don’t know, I strive to learn.
      I deal with facts and the discovered laws about the inter-relationships, behaviours, actions and effects of those facts.
      Belief is for religions and the religious and for those who are inadequately educated and insufficiently knowledgeable to be able to cope with those facts.

      Do you believe in Gravity?
      I learnt all about gravity and its anomalies as a very small boy (like all small boys: pitter patter pitter patter SPLAT). Its properties and most of its mathematical descriptors I learned at different stages of my education. As a small boy, I learned that it was 100% reliable and required, it neither demanded nor asked, it required Respect, not Belief.

      It doesn’t matter whether you believe in it or not. Belief or disbelief is not going to alter it’s existence nor its behaviour, nor the mathematics describing those. If you don’t believe in gravity you might be tempted to step off a high cliff, the effect will still be totally predictable and the sudden stop at the bottom may kill you.

      90

      • #

        Someone said to me and I must agree,that nature abhors
        a contradiction and doesn’t bargain – nature just kills you.
        Evolution trial and error. the tests are…, well you know.
        O ye utopian planners in cloud towers be(a)ware.

        10

    • #
      GADAB

      Read :-
      https://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/11/11/tropical-evaporative-cooling/
      … called Cooling and Warming, Clouds and Thunderstorms. There I showed that the cooling from thunderstorm-driven evaporation is a major heat-regulating mechanism in the tropics.  This is another piece of evidence for my hypothesis that the global temperature is regulated by emergent phenomena, including tropical thunderstorms. This regulation keeps the temperature within a very narrow range (e.g. ± 0.3°C over the entire 20th century).
      In other words, the variations in thunderstorm evaporative cooling are a response to the temperature variations.
      Note the size of the variations in cooling, which can change by up to eight watts per square metre in a single month. This can be compared with the estimated changes in CO2 which are expected to be about four watts per square metre in a century …

      https://www.weather.gov/jetstream/energy
      The graphic of the earth’s atmospheric energy balance shows 24 latent heat, 5 sensible heat and net 116-98=18 radiation emitted from the surface.

      Evaporation and convection is the majority(29 cf. 18) of the net heat emitted from the earth’s surface.
      Evaporation and convection bypass the greenhouse gas effect up to the clouds and there is precious little water above them to obstruct the release of the heat to space by radiation.
      For some reason the global warming computer models seem to regard the latent and sensible heat as a constant. LOL

      20

      • #
        Kinky Keith

        Look up in the sky.

        If there is low hanging cloud overhead, extend your arm towards it.

        Put up your thumb.

        Imagine a square fitting loosely around your thumbnail.

        Imagine a cube behind that square comprised of the cloud.

        That cube of cloud weighs very roughly 2 tonnes.

        It has energy taken at ground level when the liquid water was transformed into gas, LHV.

        Soon it will rain with that energy given up to deep space.

        While ever we have rain we will not overheat and succumb to CAGW.

        Massive storm clouds represent Earth’s air conditioning system.

        And that’s cooling.

        Beside all this our puny CO2 contribution is a quantitative joke.

        KK

        KK

        40

    • #
      Global Cooling

      Water vapor is a debatable issue in climate science. Look at the beginning of a new post:
      https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/10/21/weekly-climate-and-energy-news-roundup-332/

      Discussion in this area go fast behind paywalls. Ordinary people does not read these papers and even if they tried understanding them without appropriate background is difficult. Paywalls are therefore stop signs for the discussion.

      10

    • #
  • #
    Eddie

    You haven’t a chance of convincing her mate.
    She’ll just keep belittling you till you bow down to the cabal.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/rahmstorf/status/1053617549617840128

    100

  • #
    James McCown

    Eddie, you’re right. People like Price and Hayhoe won’t stop preaching AGW even if we have another ice age. They have bet their careers on it and they’re not about to give up.

    But often there are others reading/listening to the debate who might be convinced by reasoned argument and reference to the empirical facts. It’s those people I seek to reach.

    130

  • #
  • #
    Mark M

    Exciting news in melanoma cancer research by real scientists:

    Research has found peptides in funnel-web spider venom can also kill melanoma cancer cells.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-06/peptide-from-spider-venom-killing-melanoma-cells/10344588

    80

  • #
    Yonniestone

    I’ll put this out there, a quick look into Kerryn Phelps’ life it all may not be doom and gloom, she converted to Judaism for her wife, she ended up placing the LNP above Labor in preferences but yes she is a climate change activist, an open boarders advocate, safe schools supporter, equality………….forget it.

    130

  • #
    Dennis

    Campaign slogan for the next federal election;

    Vote ******* because we would not be as bad as them.

    70

    • #
      robert rosicka

      Brilliant Dennis only thing is it’s sad but true !

      40

    • #
      Phillthegeek

      Campaign slogan for the next federal election;

      Vote ******* because we would not be as bad as them.

      Thats pretty much what the Libs have been banging on with for a couple of years…….and their polling is STILL in the toilet. :)

      40

      • #
        el gordo

        Morrison needs someone to advise him on climate change, similar to Trump hiring Will Happer.

        Do you have any suggestions?

        30

        • #
          Phillthegeek

          Nah, no-one i dislike enough to don them in for such a pointless task. ScoMo doesn’t care ot want to know because doG is hauling him off away from us plebs come the Rapture anyway. :)

          00

        • #
          philthegeek

          Do you have any suggestions?

          Actually….on further thought eg……..how about Malcolm Roberts?? :) Just so many ways i like that. :)

          00

          • #
            el gordo

            Phil I see you are not taking this seriously.

            We need a team of six sceptic scientists to advise the PM on every aspect of the debate, better the Coalition dies on its feet than on its knees.

            00

  • #
    Dennis

    Exit poll shows climate change a key issue
    The interim results of an exit poll commissioned by the Australia Institute and undertaken by Lonergan Research, shows concern about the government’s support for coal and inaction on climate change influenced many people’s vote.
    According to the poll of 1049 voters in Wentworth, 78 per cent said climate change and replacing coal with renewables had some influence on their vote. 33 per cent named it as the most important issue.
    Among former Liberal voters who switched to Phelps, Malcolm Turnbull’s toppling was the top concern (44 per cent), followed by climate change (28 per cent) but about 81 per cent of these voters said climate change had some influence on how they voted.
    “Prime Minister Scott Morrison once brought a lump of coal into Parliament, but his government’s climate-wrecking, anti-science stance has gone down like a lead balloon with the voters of Wentworth,” Australia Institute deputy director Ebony Bennett said.
    News.com

    30

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Voters regarding climate change as important, looks like too many have swallowed the MSM propaganda.

      10

  • #
    Dennis

    Two in moderation already, I think I will log off and read the newspapers.

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    • #
      PeterS

      I have many too. What is going on? Waste of time posting here.

      34

    • #
      PeterS

      This is not a good way to grow a blog. Jo please do something about it.

      43

    • #
      PeterS

      In fact it’s a good way to destroy it.

      33

      • #
        Peter C

        Calm Down.

        Your comments will likely get released eventually.

        63

        • #
          Annie

          Also worth remembering is that Jo is over in the West; we in the East will be eating brekkie before she wakes up in all probability. She is not a machine.

          92

          • #
            PeterS

            Yes but something is broken. How come some posts get through yet others don’t when they should have given there are no “bad” words used? Oh well, better go and do something else for a while.

            31

            • #
              WXcycles

              Maybe it’s because you keep flooding the threads with endless trite political garbage? So the site filter software naturally recognizes your posts as gratuitous political-spam, and does it’s best to block them as per Jo’s site rules, recommending no more than five posts per thread, per member, to prevent such thread-flooding and domineering off-topic tactics by people with their little agendas?

              Which behavior is also not such a “good way to grow a blog”.

              66

        • #
          PeterS

          Probably but the automatic moderation process is broken. I know that for a fat given the words I used.

          41

      • #
        Annie

        Things sometimes go a bit wrong…life isn’t perfect. I’d not be getting niggly because sometimes I land in moderation and I have done a few times.
        This blog is one of the best, so go read your newspaper; lucky you if you have one delivered or a nearby shop to get one easily, but I head for Jo’s blog first every morning.

        92

      • #
        robert rosicka

        There are key words that get you into moderation , I’ve only just realised sometimes it’s in the link .

        62

        • #
          PeterS

          None of my posts today have links and I have checked and none of the words would be classified as being “bad” in any other blog. Something is wrong with Jo’s site.

          22

          • #
            Annie

            You have several comments on this thread already…so just have patience re the others.

            52

          • #
            Peter C

            I have a theory that once caught by the moderation filter you are likely to be “on the list” for further comments.

            52

            • #
              PeterS

              If this post passes then your theory is wrong.

              41

            • #
              PeterS

              There you are – you are wrong since I just posted another one just a minute or so ago and it’s in moderation. The process is broken.

              32

            • #
              PeterS

              The only thing I can think of at the moment is it has something to do with the length of the post. I am certain there are no “bad” words in my latest posts.

              31

              • #
                WXcycles

                If the filter is cramping your style it’s because it’s working. And frankly the slider could be moved a bit more towards 11, to cramp you further (and those of your ilk), so we can get back to reading the actual climate debate and related, and a whole lot less of your useless political-spam opinions. Ever since you began rabbiting-on your political garbage within Jo’s site, the level of debate here has gradually become a proverbial chewing-gum that lost its flavor.

                46

              • #
                robert rosicka

                Unfortunately WX you can’t seperate politics and CAGW it’s that entrenched .

                60

              • #
                PeterS

                WXcycles, as Jo pointed out the system was broken so it had nothing to do with the style. Unless you have something useful to say go and troll somewhere else if you don’t like my politics.

                42

              • #
                WXcycles

                robert rosicka
                Unfortunately WX you can’t separate politics and CAGW it’s that entrenched .

                I agree with that Robert, however, some opportunists are also taking advantage of that situation to go full-retard with endless political drivel.

                20

          • #
            robert rosicka

            Actually just went to moderation without any links and no inflammatory key words used so it might be a bit touchy today but the s the breaks .

            50

      • #
        sophocles

        Impatient laddie! laddies!

        10

  • #
    PeterS

    As many have stated the Wentworth result is not unexpected. Even Morrison agrees. The reason is simple. People hate their elected PM being dumped. For Wentworth there are a couple of other issues, such as climate change that made it worse for the LNP. Too many people still believe in CAGW. However, going back to the first reason, it’s now time for the LNP to make it much harder for the party to dump their leader. The ALP have done so. Only in exceptional circumstances can that happen. Better still we should have a method similar to impeaching the US President. They have to go through a lot of loops to achieve it. We should have a similar process that applies to any elected party. The public (and I) are sick and tired the current way PM’s are removed from office.

    30

  • #
    Sambar

    During that time between midnight and dawn ( otherwise known as eternity ) waiting for daylight so I can go outside, I often browse through some of my favourite authors.
    Last night was Kiplings turn and, as always, gems of wisdom.I hope that this quote can offer just a bit of solace to my fellow bloggers in what appears to be an endless task of attempting to convert people into thinkers rather than followers.

    ” The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.” Rudyard Kipling

    150

  • #
    Another Ian

    Food for thought – Not Wentworth

    Leads in from here

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2018/10/14/w-o-o-d-14-october-2018/#comment-102468

    (And while you’re on that scroll down to

    “E.M.Smith says:
    20 October 2018 at 1:18 pm”

    for some real fake news) then more on Putin at

    “Putin “Gets it” About Nations & Soros”

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2018/10/20/putin-gets-it-about-nations-soros/

    10

  • #
    Another Ian

    And even differenter

    “The Emperor Has No Tits”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2018/10/20/the-emperor-has-no-tits/#comments

    And comments!

    30

    • #
      Latus Dextro

      I wondered where this had gone. Thanks for the reminder Ian. It’s a classic case of ‘be careful what you wish for’ and a graphic illustration of how the derangement of identity politics leads to the delicious insanity of an infinitely fractionating, auto-devouring hierarchy of oppression.

      70

  • #
    TdeF

    I can list the achievements of Tony Abbott in two years. Stopped the boats, the impossible task. Stopped the tragedies. Removed the carbon tax, the mining tax and set up at least two major trade deals. Direct action to meet our carbon dioxide agreements by greening the country, not stopping the country.

    Malcolm Turnbull. Snowy II, diesel submarines we will never see and which are useless, worse than what we have. An unnecessary double dissolution election which destroyed Abbott’s record majority, a bit like Teresa May. A $444million gift to Lucy’s corporate friends, without even a proposal. Endless attempts to force Tony Abbott out of parliament and have him even removed from preselection.

    Can anyone name a single achievement of Wentworth’s Prime Minister, other than while communications minister successfully conspiring against his own Prime Minister?

    Do the people of Wentworth miss Malcolm? Do they feel he was the one left down, or were they? After all, it was his dummy spit which clearly was meant to destroy the Liberal party, Turnbull’s Liberals. He would be half pleased, but for all the wrong reasons. The people voted for Phelps because she is a well known candidate and they were sick of the other two parties.

    Until the Liberals put Tony Abbott back, they will see independents everywhere. The Black Hand and Gillard’s Unions have demonstrated that principles and tradition do not matter to Labor or the Nationals or the Liberals. Overpaid, underworked, self indulgent politicians. Without compulsory voting, no one would vote at all, not that politicians would care.

    Morrison’s government with no majority will be lucky to last until Christmas. They certainly won’t do anything and nothing which needs to be done. Like get out of Paris and repeal the RET. Now.

    270

    • #
      TdeF

      Morrison could have withdrawn from Paris. He could have been bold. Taken a risk. Made a difference. Fortune favors the brave.

      Now what?

      No wonder Turnbull fought so hard to stop Dutton and put Morrison in his place. He knew Morrison and Frydenberg would do nothing.

      190

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        Perhaps they will decide that as they will lose then they should leave some boobytraps for Labor? e.g. abandon subsidies for renewables “because they are cheap”?

        60

      • #
        PeterS

        You make a good point but it’s simpler than that. People are fed up with PM’s being dumped part way through their term. Turnbull should have lost the election in the first place, and he almost did. The Nats took the LNP over the line. He lost a lot of Liberal seats. Perhaps we would have been better off if Turnbull did lose the election. By now we could be looking forward to a major electoral win by the LNP. In any case, Morrison better shape up or start looking for a new career.

        51

        • #
          Peter C

          “Want Some One to Blame? Look to Dutton” proclaims Tony Wright in the Fairfax Sunday Age today.

          Such is the perception of an Age Journo. And maybe he is right! I know little of Wentworth voters. Did former Liberal voters in Wentworth really like Malcolm Turnbull? I suppose that they did vote for him at least twice.

          30

          • #
            beowulf

            This comment is a reply to #45 in case it goes astray.

            Even though Wentworth is nominally Liberal, it is a lefty stronghold. See Pickering’s take on the electorate for a run-down on its demographics. It is far from a right wing seat or a typical Liberal seat, and was John Hewson’s seat from 87 to 95 — another LINO type who showed his true colours by pushing renewables after he was deposed. He’s a business partner of Finkel.

            http://pickeringpost.com/story/libs-media-still-don-t-get-it-/8664

            60

          • #
            Peter C

            Moderation has bumped me far down the comment list!

            Does it matter? Does anyone read comments by Peter C?

            I myself have a few favourites commenters that I do read.

            50

        • #
          Greebo

          The Nats took the LNP over the line.

          Not strictly true, I think you’ll find.The Nats did gain a seat, but it was a Liberal seat, the Division of Murray, IIRC. Turnbull’s hide was saved by Red Dan’s mean spirited attack on the CFA. Jason Wood in LaTrobe, for one, campaigned quite well on that issue.

          50

          • #
            Greebo

            Dunno how this ended up here, it was a reply to #31.

            10

          • #
            Jonesy

            Not true, Greebo. It was the UFU trying a hostile takeover attempt of the fire ground. A litany of demands that centred on destroying the volunteer CFA is what done it! Comrade Dan did nothing, as usual.

            30

            • #
              Greebo

              History is written by the winners… It’s no wonder us mere mortals are confused, as the winners keep changing.

              00

              • #
                Greebo

                What is currently #73 is a reply to #61… I think your flux capacitor is need of realigning, Jo. Perhaps getting to #88 will fix it…

                50

              • #
                Dennis

                A couple I posted this morning have appeared way up like #58

                30

              • #
                PeterS

                Yes Dennis, this thread is broken. Hopefully a new one is started soon.

                31

              • #
                PeterS

                After sleeping on it I feel better about the loss of the Wentworth seat to an independent. It could have been far worse – Labor+Greens could have won it. It’s also some good news with respect to the broader picture. As I suspected for some time we might find ourselves with neither major party winning the next election in their own right by a wide margin. It manes a lot of minor parties will have to negotiate amongst themselves and with one of the major parties to form government. It’s not the best outcome but it should be far better than having the ALP+Greens winning in their own right. Even if Shorten becomes PM at least there will be some restraint placed upon them.

                42

              • #
                Dennis

                Morning Mail has published a postcard from WWW, printed on the back is the following; Well,
                My work here is done.
                I have edged the country to the left.
                It was a great personal sacrifice to me to have to quit politics,
                but the goal was worth it.
                The Liberal Party is finished and from the wreck will emerge
                a giant one party, an amalgam of Conservative and Labor.
                And a Republic.
                Best Wishes,
                Malcolm

                Postcard shows an earthquake zone city with him standing in front of it.

                70

              • #
                Hanrahan

                Dennis #107

                An earlier meme showed the ‘ranga.

                Speaking of memes the NPC meme is is driving “progressives” batchit crazy. Luv it!!!!

                30

              • #
                Hanrahan

                Well it WAS #107, it is now #110. Crazy when one can’t reference the post being replied to.

                10

              • #
                Analitik

                Well it WAS #107, it is now #110. Crazy when one can’t reference the post being replied to.

                The only way to reference a post being replied to is to link the comment itself from the date-time tag
                eg this is responding to http://joannenova.com.au/2018/10/unthreaded-weekend-25/#comment-2061123

                00

              • #
                PeterS

                Clicking on that link didn’t take me to the post.

                20

              • #
                PeterS

                Union strikes are coming back for the same reasons as usual; more pay and better conditions. Reason for more pay? Wages haven’t risen much but the cost of living has risen significantly as we all know. The main contributors to such increases include power prices. I suppose their answer to increased power prices is to give people higher wages. Problem. What happens to small to medium sizes businesses? They sack people or close down. I would have thought the best solution is simply to dump the renewables subsides IMMEDIATELY! Morrison you are rapidly becoming as useless as Turnbull.

                81

              • #
                PeterS

                People like Craig Kelley, Morrison and many others in the LNP still don’t get it. They think they can win the next election simply by talking. What a shock they will all get. The LNP will lose a whole swag of seats. The only question is who to? ALP, Greens, ON, ACP, etc.? Let’s hope it’s anyone but the ALP and Greens.

                61

              • #
                robert rosicka

                Judging by Wentworth Libs lab and green will get marked down .

                10

              • #
                robert rosicka

                Nah me neither occasionally the sequence thing goes on the fritz but not often enough to be a concern and it’s not anything that Jo can control unfortunately, it’s usually whoever is the host such as WordPress where the problem lies .

                10

              • #
                Analitik

                Clicking on that link didn’t take me to the post.

                re http://joannenova.com.au/2018/10/unthreaded-weekend-25/#comment-2061182

                If you were replying to my post, it took you to the post that I was replying to.

                If not, please ignore

                00

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                I am not so sure…..when I think of other “independents” and how they have turned out to be globalist stooges in a eco-friendly hand-decorated wrapper….

                If you think about it, you just have swapped one branch of the Establishent for another. Phelps was head of the Establishment AMA.
                Malcolm is an Establishment Sacks of Gold champers globalist socialist….

                And that part of sydney, I suspect they like their sitting members obedient and to play dead and roll over on command…. fetch the stick…good boy…..

                50

              • #
                robert rosicka

                Thing is Peter the government get handed a lesson and then have to wake up to reality and make a decision on how best to reverse their fortunes , most are in denial especially the Libs who seem incapable of understanding that you can’t outgreen the greens and it’s not their base .
                Wentworth (conservative) voters from what I can ascertain don’t give a rats about climate change but can smell something rotten coming from the Libs .

                10

              • #

                Something dumb, when yr a decision maker, about not keeping
                yr ear ter the ground and knowing what’s going on. Don’t bode
                well re yr main task of defense of the realm does it?

                20

            • #
              Greebo

              Comrade Dan did nothing, as usual.

              Not so. Dan has been perfecting his impersonation of Roz Ward.

              40

          • #
            PeterS

            Thanks Greebo, I stand corrected.

            31

      • #
        Hanrahan

        Morrison could have withdrawn from Paris. He could have been bold. Taken a risk. Made a difference. Fortune favors the brave.

        He MUST grab the nettle, be bold. Trying to be all things to all men isn’t working.

        130

        • #
          PeterS

          100% correct. Morrison must now think and act as a true Liberal not as some moderate who tries to appease the left half the time, which only ends up losing support.

          91

          • #
            TdeF

            Sorry, trying to get away from #22 and #23.

            How this went into #22 I do not know, but try again..

            Breaking news. The race is not over! This is despite the acceptance of the result by both parties.

            A dramatic lead in postal votes has Sharma within 804 votes of winning with thousands of more postal votes to count. It seems Malcolm is not the only one in this postcode who is overseas.

            60

            • #
              Dennis

              Shabbat or Shabbos, or the Sabbath is Judaism’s day of rest and seventh day of the week, on which religious Jews, Samaritans and certain Christians remember the Biblical creation of the heavens and the earth in six days and the Exodus of the Hebrews, and look forward to a future Messianic Age.More at Wikipedia

              So no show Saturday at Wentworth polling booths for a significant percentage of voters.

              Postal votes to be counted.

              50

        • #
          Dennis

          But he is preaching to the congregation, the true believers, and he is a sales and marketing guy after all.

          20

      • #
        Another Ian

        TdeF

        See #56!!!

        00

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Malcolm Turnbull a lifelong Labor supporter successfully infiltrated and sabotaged the last remminants of true conservative power within the Liberal party of Australia.

      Considering the demographics of Wentworth I’d be very concerned for their future well being knowing what their political preferences have aligned with and will inflict upon them for the cause of what they deem necessary.

      110

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      Great summary.

      70

    • #
      Dennis

      PM Abbott also tried hard to get RET abolished, but did manage to lower Labor’s 28% to 23% target.

      It is overlooked that PM Abbott led the Coalition into government in September 2013, and caused Labor to form a minority alliance government in 2010, but while in government as PM until September 2015 he was severely handicapped. He had the “Black Hand Faction” opposing many of his proposals in Cabinet, and leaking anonymously to the media with relentless negativity and smearing, coupled to a “hostile Senate” in which Labor Greens with the help of other Senators blocked Government legislation, including budget repair bills aimed at fixing the mess Labor created in their Budget for financial year 2013/14.

      Without the relentless negativity despite the hostile Senate I believe that the Abbott Government would have achieved much more.

      But as Christopher Monckton warned, Abbott’s back was vulnerable and now we all know what Monckton was meant.

      100

    • #
      robert rosicka

      Wouldn’t matter who was in charge of the Libs while they have been infiltrated by the left in large numbers .
      Only way to fix the Libs is defect to ACP or alternatively bring Bernardi on as leader then get rid of the white ants within .
      Libs need a leader with conviction and conservative values who is in charge of the party and not too scared too stand up to the Labor/Green socialism that will ruin the country .
      What they don’t need is another leader that makes stupid Captain picks and tries to out green the greens .

      51

  • #
    Hivemind

    Although Morrison has been assured of supply and confidence by two of independents, technically assuring him government, a minority government is still a bad government. Look what happened in Tasmania the last time Labor had to share power with the Greens.

    Look what is happening now in Canberra with Labor sharing power with the Greens. There are no Labor policies being implemented, only Greens. A billion dollars being wasted on an 18th century solution to a 21st century transport problem. The toxic Greens tax on shopping bags. Minimal land being released for housing construction, forcing developers to build those ugly rows of apartment blocks (look at Flemington Road and the extremely ugly Kingston Foreshore). The planned extension of the city to the Acton Peninsula, which I call Ugly to the Lake.

    There is no policy, no matter how bad, that a minority government won’t be forced to pick up enthusiastically, just to keep power.

    41

  • #
    robert rosicka

    This bit of quality journalism from the ABC really shows just how bad they really are , they don’t know the difference betweeen a ute and a car , and anyone doing 110 K on the Nullarbor at night is asking for trouble .

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-21/driver-survives-high-speed-nullabor-crash/10398240

    40

    • #
      RickWill

      I consider 80kph the limit on the Nullarbor at night. I leant that the hard way after writing off two cars in successive years travelling above 80kph on outback roads. The first time I travelled the Nullarbor it was dirt road for more than 200km with holes you could lose a car in. Once it was all sealed it was great travelling in daylight but dusk to dawn anywhere on unfenced roads can be deadly above 80kph. You need to drive within the range of your vision at all times. That means slowing down with oncoming cars when lights are dipped and blinded by the oncoming lights. Best to be off the road dusk to dawn. Leave it to the trucks with big bars.

      70

      • #
        robert rosicka

        Unfortunately there are those who see the designated speed signs as compulsory not as a maximum depending on conditions.
        These are the same idiots who drive past you at speed while going slow in fog and driving rain .

        50

  • #
    aussiepete

    The BOM’s rainfall figures for weekending 20/10/18 show the following, NO.50052 CONDOBOLIN AG RESEARCH STN 684.8 mm. Surely this needs homogenising before Tim Flannery sees it or he will faint clean away.
    BTW, Condobolin Airport (which is presumably fairly close by) only got 2.2 mm for the same period.
    Yes folks, the science is settled.

    90

    • #
      aussiepete

      Have just noticed that the Condobolin Retirement Village also only had 2.2 mm. Obviously it is much closer to the airport than the Ag Research Station.
      So who is correct here. The old codgers reading the gauge at the retirement village or the lab-coated scientists at the Ag Research Centre? LOL

      30

  • #
    PeterS

    The conclusion from the Wentworth result is clear. It’s time for the Liberal Party to become a true Liberal Party. Otherwise, Morrison might as well resign right now and hand over the government to the ALP+Greens. So, its over to you Morrison. Shape up or ship out.

    40

  • #
    PeterS

    The conclusion from the Wentworth result is clear. It’s time for the Liberal Party to become a true Liberal Party.

    10

  • #
    robert rosicka

    If Wentworth want more renewables can I suggest there is some prime spots for wind turbines in the electorate and after all their votes mean they wouldn’t object !

    50

    • #
      beowulf

      Belongs with #22.
      Start with a line of seagull munchers on Bondi, Bronte and Clovelly Beaches, plus a heap on Bellevue Hill and Double Bay. See how that affects their real estate prices and their sleep patterns. Hey they’ll be keen to do their bit for global warming.

      40

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Can I be hearing things , the voting count continues and there are only a couple of hundred votes the difference between the two leading candidates.

    Being cryptic to keep out of moderation.

    20

    • #
      robert rosicka

      The ABC election guru who called the election for the independent after one hour of counting last night has just admitted that its going to be closer than first thought .
      I’m sure that postal votes usually favour conservatives.

      40

  • #
    GrahamP

    As I write this the AEC web site has Sharma on 49.39% and Phelps on 50.61%, so it looks like the party is not over yet.

    I would love to see the smirk wiped of the faces of all those gloating over Phelps.

    100

  • #
    beowulf

    Slo-Mo Morrison some are calling him, but I think that’s a gross overstatement of his abilities and resolve. In the words of his own advertising campaign with Lara Bingle: Where the bloody hell are ya Scott?

    Goofy is what I’d call him. Aimless grinning, and attending sausage sizzles and footy finals seem to be the limit of his abilities. Of course he is two steps ahead of Turnbull in that regard — at least he knows the name of his “favourite” team and he doesn’t crook his pinkie while pretending to sip a beer al la Turnbull.

    So now we have the good ship Australia with Goofy at the helm minus a majority. God help us. His performance over the last couple of weeks creating policy on the run to win an unwinnable election shows the depths of his incompetence. Turnbullesque thought-bubbles. It will take a lot more than Goofy dragging a lump of coal into parliament to convince me that he’s a leader worth having rather than a hopeless dud; another landmine Turnbull left for us.

    If Barnaby takes back the Nats he might bring some pressure to bear in the right direction, which itself would be a pleasant change compared to what he did last time around. He’s making the right noises at least.

    Prove me wrong Goofy.

    110

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Meanwhile in the Glorious Republic of Victoriastan our much Exalted one has come up with a Baldrick cunning plan to reduce the cost of electricity for low income / struggling households.

    He has hired a broker to get these low income struggling people to get in touch with a broker so they can find the cheapest plan .

    100

    • #
      Greebo

      Ah yes, Red Dan, the gift that keeps on taking…

      70

      • #
        GD

        Red Dan gave me $50 just for logging into his energy-compare website. Still not voting for him, although come November, the majority of voters probably will.

        20

        • #
          robert rosicka

          Aaahh GD you fell for it , where do you think that $50 comes from , increased tax or dearer electricity prices not from Dangerous Dans personal account I can assure you .

          20

          • #
            Analitik

            GD, didn’t “fall” for anything. He took his fare share of a government, vote buying, boondoggle that he would otherwise still pay for (just by an infinitesimally smaller amount sans his taking). Just like anyone buying a PV system and taking the government taxpayer solar rebates.

            10

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Yes , not dealing with the root cause, but happy to let people suffer to keep glorious soviet plan marching forward….

      60

  • #
    el gordo

    Morrison has to say the government is going to seek tenders for new coal fired power stations in the regions, to alleviate congestion in capital cities. A mini budget is called for.

    Failing to do this would indicate he doesn’t have leadership qualities.

    50

  • #
    TdeF

    Breaking news. The race is not over! This is despite the acceptance of the result by both parties.

    A dramatic lead in postal votes has Sharma within 804 votes of winning with thousands of more postal votes to count. It seems Malcolm is not the only one in this postcode who is overseas.

    60

  • #
    TdeF

    How this went into #22 I do not know, but try again..

    Breaking news. The race is not over! This is despite the acceptance of the result by both parties.

    A dramatic lead in postal votes has Sharma within 804 votes of winning with thousands of more postal votes to count. It seems Malcolm is not the only one in this postcode who is overseas.

    20

  • #
    NB

    ScoMo could join the ALP. Easy.

    20

  • #
    pat

    for what it’s worth:

    Guardian: Ben Raue is an electoral analyst​ and blogger who writes about elections in Australia at http://www.tallyroom.com.au He works as a data analyst at GetUp!

    21 Oct: The Tally Room: Ben Raue: Wentworth – wait just a minute
    CHECK COMMENTS TOO
    http://www.tallyroom.com.au/35823

    00

  • #
    pat

    Pat. Perhaps I can give you permission to edit and approve your comments? It’s a little harder since there are not many ways to get in touch with you. — Jo

    as this is in moderation way up in the comments, will try posting it again, just to see if it gets through:

    for what it’s worth:

    Guardian: Ben Raue is an electoral analyst​ and blogger who writes about elections in Australia at http://www.tallyroom.com.au He works as a data analyst at GetUp!

    21 Oct: The Tally Room: Ben Raue: Wentworth – wait just a minute
    CHECK COMMENTS TOO
    http://www.tallyroom.com.au/35823

    10

  • #
    pat

    19 Oct: BusinessInsiderUK: A scientist who predicted a grim ‘Hothouse Earth’ says the world’s billionaires need to give up their money to save us
    by Hilar Brueck
    • It’s a straightforward, five-part plan that he sayscould eliminate poverty and hunger while helping the planet atthe same time.
    • But the plan requires unprecedented shifts in the waywe do everything, from powering our lives to redistributingwealth.

    This week, one of authors of that bleak “hothouse” report hasco-authored anew one that models how the world and its people mayfare in the coming decades. In brief, ecologist Johan Rockström, who directs the PotsdamInstitute for Climate Impact Research in Stockholm, thinksthere might be a way to cut global emissions while eliminatingpoverty and hunger and keeping the world cool enough to sustainfuture generations.
    “This is actually quite uplifting,” Rockström recently told a crowd at theTED Conference New York Headquarters, before the report came out…

    Here’s the five-part formula:
    http://uk.businessinsider.com/climate-change-plan-billionaires-share-money-2018-10?r=US&IR=T

    30

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Let’s see where this one ends up !

    Going solar / renewables can now also reduce crime rates !!!! , yeah ok ! But it must be true the ABC wouldn’t lie , would they ??

    20

  • #

    Unravelled Party would been more appropriate.

    20

  • #
    Another Ian

    “SHOCK: SHARMA MAY YET WIN”

    Andrew Bolt just just now

    40

  • #
    PeterS

    Given the ridiculous number of posts apparently in moderation and the out of sequencing of replies, this blog has some big issues. I think when this happens a restart fixes it.

    11

  • #
    NoFixedAddress

    Jo

    I’ll take one for the team.

    Everyone needs to get out of Sydney by 2010, sorry 2018, sorry 2020, sorry 2030 or is it 2040.

    Anyway I’ll stick around and bulldoze Sydney into the sea so the kangaroos and wombats can return to their natural Womberth.

    10

  • #
    Phillthegeek

    From the OP:

    Thank Turnbull (and MP’s that voted for him) for turning a 24 seat majority into one seat rule that he then threw away…

    I am ever so pleased to see this kind of utter rot published. :) As long as the not-left of Australian politics are silly enough to believe this kind of thing then its pretty obvious they are dominated by faith and ideology…not analysis.

    so…take a look at what ACTUALLY happened, and what we know about it.

    The postal and prepoll distribution that became obvious lkast night and this morning shows that up till the last week or two of the campaign the Libs were hurting (mainly over the knifing of Malcolm) but not quite enough to lose the seat. Then, late in the campaign something happened that shifted votes BIG time to Phelps. :)

    Issues? Govt dismissal of the IPPC report, Leak of the Ruddock report and confusion over their response to that, “Its Ok to be White” vote and subsequent Sir Robin impression, “Come to Jerusalem” brainfart……

    The Liberal angst over the dumping of Turnbull was over and done….and then the Libs brains trust decided to panic and stab their own eyes out. They actually made it about ScoMo and the current Muppet Show rather than Malcolm.

    Will be interesting to see if the Monkey Pod mob start to get restless again……..

    And, Seems that Jane Caro may be going to run against Abbott in Waringah?? That will be an interesting one. Not an ALP candidate, and lots of Libs very unhappy with Tones. :)

    34

    • #
      robert rosicka

      Ok Phil I’ll bite , two litres of milk a loaf of bread and a dozen eggs .

      10

    • #
      el gordo

      Phil is essentially correct on all points, the Party is a ship without a rudder on climate change. Morrison has to grow a backbone and build coal fired power stations and get rid of the subsidies on renewables.

      50

      • #
        Phillthegeek

        eg, the current Libs are simply too divided to govern.

        Regardless of opinion on WHAT policies are the right ones to take to the electorate (and i suspect we disagree just a tad on that ), the Coalition has to demonstrate that they have SOME kind of policies, nail their colors to the mast and take THOSE to the electorate..and that in a united fashion…no sniping or undermining. :)

        Honestly, i just don’t think this lot have it in em to do that. Also, i really dont think there will be any real fragmentation of the
        Right / Conservatives in Australian politics until after the next election. The Right overall is headed for a thrashing at the hands of the people in 2019 and realistically looking at a couple of terms in opposition while their “iconic” issues of today get dealt with without them. It will take a while for a sensible, non-outlier right of center party or grouping to coalesce out of the 2019 election wreckage.

        21

        • #
          el gordo

          ‘… nail their colors to the mast and take THOSE to the electorate..and that in a united fashion…no sniping or undermining.’

          Exactly, but they would have to run on climate change. Carbon dioxide is a harmless trace gas so we are getting rid of subsidies for renewables, dropping Hydro 2, departing Paris, building coal fired power stations, a bullet train network and satellite cities.

          Anything less could see the Coalition crash and burn, and a slow death of the two party system. The Cultural Marxist green left holding sway, with Beijing openly wooing Australia to become their vassal state and quit the American Alliance.

          00

  • #
    Crakar24

    Put the corks back in the bottle. The lib guy is making a comeback in Wentworth. If he wins the sjws will go spare lol

    20

  • #
    Crakar24

    Jo’s clock is broken comments out of chronological order :-)

    20

  • #
    pat

    just one more oddity about Wentworth:

    18 Sept: ABC: Kerryn Phelps defends decision to hire political consultant used by Labor
    By Antonette Collins
    Darrin Barnett, who worked for former prime minister Julia Gillard and is now employed by the Maritime Union of Australia, will be Dr Phelps’ spokesman in the lead-up to the October 20 vote.
    He also worked on some of Labor’s campaigns for July’s “Super Saturday” by-elections…
    Mr Barnett, who has previously written opinion articles for ABC News, was contacted for comment.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-18/kerryn-phelps-defends-decision-to-hire-labor-campaigner/10262122

    seems Phelps has moved further ahead in the count, so it’s less likely postal votes will make a difference. time will tell.

    why would the Liberals choose a candidate, Sharma, from outside the constituency, just as they did with Gorgina Downer in Mayo/SA? makes no sense at all.

    meanwhile, the only politician I have time for, Craig Kelly, could be gone soon:

    Tony Abbott demands Malcolm Turnbull intervene in Liberal MP Craig Kelly’s preselection battle
    Mr Kelly, a conservative who has intensely lobbied for government investment in coal-fired power, is under siege from Kent Johns, a former Labor mayor turned vice-president of the NSW Liberal Party.
    SMH – 6 Jun 2018

    25 May: Conservatives.org: New South Wales Liberals politically corrupted: Bernardi
    In the south Sydney seat of Hughes, firebrand conservative MP Craig Kelly faces likely defeat at the hands of New South Wales Liberal Party vice-president Kent Johns, a former Labor mayor of the Sutherland Shire who defected to the Liberals.

    Australian Conservatives leader Cory Bernardi says this kind of shady politics is just another example that the New South Wales Liberal Party has been politically corrupted…
    Senator Bernardi has told Andrew Bolt on Sky News Mr Kelly is a victim of toxic New South Wales factional politics…
    VIDEO: 1min20sec
    https://www.conservatives.org.au/new_south_wales_liberals_corrupted_bernardi

    20

  • #
    DonS

    Actually the result of the Wentworth by-election is a bit irrelevant as this government is finished anyway. Once you have people inside the system who are willing to risk jail time by leaking ASIO and DEFAT communications then it’s all over folks. No government can operate effectively if its various agencies can not give it advice on controversial topics without that advice ending up on the ABC news that night.

    Only question is when does it end? A general election before XMAS or does it drag on for another 6 months? This version of the Liberal party desperately needs a great purging by the ballot box but unfortunately that will mean at least 3 years of Green Labour rule.

    I just hope that we are all psychologically strong enough to endure what is coming in the next few years, or for however long it takes the Liberals to get back on the right i.e. right track.

    40

  • #
  • #
    RossP

    Just read some of the comments on Andrew Bolt’s blog. One in particular stands out by reminding readers 13% of the Wentworth voters are Jewish and since the election was on Saturday the majority, if not all of those Jewish votes, would be postal votes

    50

  • #
    Peter C

    To Beth the Serf,
    Who has introduced me to poetry!

    By what unseen and unsuspected arts
    The serpent Error twines round human hearts;

    https://www.best-poems.net/poem/the-progress-of-error-by-william-cowper.html

    A metaphor for the GAGW human mixed up mindset?

    30

  • #
    Peter C

    History is written by the winners… It’s no wonder us mere mortals are confused, as the winners keep changing.

    Thanks Greebo,

    30

  • #
    RAH

    Thank God this Yank has a choice. I went up to the courthouse Friday and voted early for the midterms. I used to be a guy that did my research and voted for the individual and not the party, but no more. The last two times I have voted a straight Republican ticket. And this time I went one step further and went through and any office for which there was no Republican running I voted Libertarian. IOW I voted against every single Democrat candidate that was going for a contested office. As things stand now I would not vote for a family member if they were running as a democrat. I will not support that party in any way, shape, or form. It must be torn up by the roots IMO.

    I pray that my intuition is correct about the coming election results. I suspect that the Republicans will gain seats in the senate and hold their majority in the house. Though I am fully cognizant of the fact that once a party gains too much power it will become ever more corrupt and over bearing I see no choice. Only by giving the Republicans majorities can the Trump train keep rolling at full steam to return our government back to being a Republic for and by the people. We’ll have to deal with those negative effects later because right now the Democrats stand for just about everything I believe in.

    70

  • #
    gunbuggy

    So if climate change was the big decider in Wentworth on who to vote for why was the green vote down? Shouldn’t the green vote have gone up in support of the green policies which include climate change action? Or was Phelps “policy” on just climate change (no other green policies) better?

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    pat

    jo – I got your message. I can deal with the moderation problems. but I do wonder why your near-perfect website occasionally goes a bit haywire!

    Brexit means Brexit. that is until the FakeNewsMSM decides to get behind yet another attempt to stop it…in the name of the “people”, “democracy”, and the “children”, of course.

    first, the march on 20 October was in London which voted against Brexit.

    VIDEO (Aerial view): 38sec: 20 Oct: BBC: People’s Vote march: Hundreds of thousands attend London protest
    The People’s Vote campaign said stewards on the route estimated 700,000 were taking part.
    The Metropolitan Police said it was not able to estimate the size of the crowd…

    London Mayor Mr Khan told the crowd (LINK TO A TWEET DATED 19 OCT): “What’s really important is that those that say that a public vote is undemocratic, is unpatriotic, realise that in fact, the exact opposite is the truth.
    “What could be more democratic, what could be more British, than trusting the judgement of the British people.”…

    From the scene: BBC journalist Charlotte Gallagher
    People gathered on Park Lane for hours before the march. Many held home-made signs and banners with slogans like “the wrexiteers”, “Brexit stole my future” and “Even Baldrick had a plan”.
    As the crowds began to form, the sheer scale of the protest became clear. Thousands of people stretched filled the street, some were singing, others were playing instruments, while many plastic whistles blared out.

    There were lots of young families there, some with children wrapped in EU flags. Many told me they’d gone because they were worried about their families’ future.
    Some people marched in groups – there were NHS staff, political parties, members of the LGBT community and dog owners. Many took the opportunity to dress up their pets for the protest…

    The start of the march was delayed due to the number of people there. It was a good natured and friendly march through some of London’s most famous streets before the hundreds of thousands of people arrived at Parliament Square.
    By that stage the march was so large that not everyone could fit in the square and demonstrators spilled out onto nearby streets.

    The marchers are hoping people power will persuade the British government to hold a referendum on the final Brexit deal. They will have to wait and see if the government was listening…

    Richard Tice, founder of Leave Means Leave and former co-chair of Leave.EU, told BBC Breakfast: “The idea that you should have a second referendum would be incredibly damaging – most of all to the trust in democracy from people up and down this country.”…

    ‘Final say’
    Some 150 coach loads of people from across the UK – including as far away from London as Orkney – travelled to the March for the Future, which started in Park Lane.
    TV chef Delia Smith told the crowds that Brexit was “the most important issue in our lifetime”, adding: “My message to MPs is please sort this out. Let the people you serve have their say.”

    Lord of the Rings star Andy Serkis attended with his wife Lorraine Ashbourne and 14-year-old son Louis.
    “The will of the people is now, it’s people expressing their points of view in a more informed state,” he said.
    And First Minister of Scotland Nicola Sturgeon sent a message of support to the rally, saying the SNP would support a vote that would give the option of staying in the EU…

    ‘Young stand to lose most’
    #PeoplesVoteMarch was trending on Twitter on Saturday, with lots of young people – some of those who were not eligible to vote in the 2016 referendum – heading on the march.
    Emily Longman, 20, one of the students leading the march behind a People’s Vote banner, was four months too young to vote in the 2016 referendum.
    She studies Spanish and is due to study abroad next year, but said “no-one knows what will happen with Erasmus funding”.

    Aleta Doyle, 46, from Peterborough, who attended with her 12-year-old son Leo, said she was marching “for my children’s future and European unity”.
    And Leo Buckley, 16, from Hampshire, said: “Young people stand to lose the most. I’m going to be poorer and not have the same career opportunities.” …

    Saturday’s event followed a march in London in June (LINK), on the second anniversary of the Brexit vote.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45925542?ns_source=twitter&ocid=socialflow_twitter&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_mchannel=social

    links to another page with more of the same anti-Brexit stuff, but for June, beginning with video “Thousands march for ‘people’s vote’ on Brexit” – 23 Jun

    ONE OF THE REPLIES TO SADIQ KHAN’S TWEET: It’s also very democratic to respect the 1st vote and what British decided 2 years ago in my humble opinion .

    the 20 Oct page has plenty more anti-Brexit stuff below the article including:

    watch this one:
    VIDEO: 1min30sec: 20 Oct: Thousands protest in London for second EU referendum
    https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-45927566/thousands-protest-in-london-for-second-eu-referendum

    Video: ‘I’m leaving Britain because of Brexit’

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      pat

      20 Oct: IsTheBBCBiasedBlog: Fresh Open Thread
      EXCERPTS FROM COMMENTS:
      I thought at first that the BBC’s website report must have been written by the Telegraph’s Michael Deacon. Why? – because the whole thing reads like a send-up. Just to whet your appetite, try this titbit from the Beeb’s on-the-spot reporter, Charlotte Gallagher: “Some people marched in groups, there were NHS staff, political parties, members of the LGBT community and dog owners. Many took the opportunity to dress up their pets for the protest.” Too little information Ms Gallagher: were these pet dogs transgender or merely transvestites? I mean, this is important, we really need to know. Ms G, you will, by the way, be in hot water with your employer for omitting the, now obligatory, ‘Q’ from the end of LGBT.
      The organisers claim 700,000 participants – the Beeb doesn’t question the figure, but states that ‘hundreds of thousands’ attended the march. Just to make it all more convincing, Ms Gallagher tells us there were 150 coaches – Wow, 150! Oh, wait a minute, average capacity of a coach= 56, 56×150 = 8,400 – a drop in the ocean. As additional evidence of the size of the crowd we are informed that, “Scotland Yard said it was not able to estimate the size of the crowd” – strange that, because the police used to be very good at estimating crowd-size by overlaying a photo of known magnification with a grid; perhaps Ms Dick doesn’t want to ruffle any feathers…

      According to 10.10pm BBC 1 news, the organisers have already lowered the figure to 6oo,ooo participants – careless, that, losing 100,000 people!…

      Sis – Then shave off the 20% of people just milling around central London at any time…so that takes it down to 480,000. But there’s still a question mark over that figure of course…

      I’ve been looking at the aerial photos on the Guardian and elsewhere – they are obviously trying to make it look as big as possible…I think the 700,000 figure is just one of those BIG LIES that Remainers tell all the time. Couldn’t be more than 100,000 in my view. And if they only had 150 coaches to bring people to the protest how does that square?

      The Remainiacs are left with two explanations for their 700,000 figure: either masses of people flooded the mainline rail system (any evidence? – that’s a lot of flooding!!!) or this was a completely London-centric demo (which kind of feeds into the pro-Leave narrative)…

      There must always be a couple of hundred thousand people on the move in central London…if you get a big march like that people will stand and stare…so I reckon on any demo if you do an aerial shot of a large demo at least 20% of people are NOT part of the demo…

      From all the photos of the event, I remain unconvinced about the numbers. Clearly, the BBC have back-pedalled from their first claims that 700,000 people attended, by referring to ‘Hundreds of thousands’. That would mean at leat two hundred thousand. Where is the evidence to support even this claim?
      In my opinion, the one aerial shot shows a number well under 50,000 heads. I superimposed a grid over the photo – my calculation actually showed under 30,000. I believe in their first stories the 700,000 was overestimated by a factor of at least ten.
      This has ben another example of dreadful news reporting by the BBC…
      http://isthebbcbiased.blogspot.com/2018/10/fresh-open-thread.html#comment-form

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        pat

        just a taste of the anti-democratic FakeNewsMSM promotion of the anti-Brexit march:

        UK Independent: Final Say
        Lizzy Buchan: Over 100,000 protesters expected in London for largest anti-Brexit demonstration to date

        Vince Cable and Femi Oluwole: March with us for the democracy you deserve

        Chuka Umunna: Brexit is a dead end – come and join the march for a Final Say

        Editorial: Marching for a Final Say on Brexit is the right thing to do, no mattr how your voted

        Independent Voices: How to march with The Independent for a Final Say on Bresit

        Editorial: The British people must be given a final say on the Brexit deal

        Howard Goodall: The scary truth about how much Brexit will affect our ‘soft power’

        Joe Watts: A second referendum is now firmly on the cards

        Alex Matthews-King: Prostate cancer and depression drugs among those facing Brexit delays

        Will Gore: Brexit and Trump have proved that lies are more attractive than facts

        Andrew Grice: Why so many Tory MPs are privately keen on a Final Say referendum

        Gina Miller: The Brextremists have gone too far now. It’s time to march

        Chris Key: How warmongering Brexiteers are putting our economy at risk

        Sean O’Grady: I voted Leave and now I want a Final Say on the Brexit deal

        Harriet Agerholm: UK would now vote 54-46 to stay in EU, new Brexit poll suggests

        Steve Coogan: The will of the people means a Final Say

        Ashley Cowburn: London mayor Sadiq Khan calls for second EU referendum

        Alastair Campbell: Accepting Brexit is like happily paying for a meal you never received

        Eleanor Busby: University staff back calls for referendum on final Brexit deal

        Benjamin Kentish: Celebrities agree to pay for people to travel to major Brexit demo

        Staff Reporter: Rod Stewart backs calls for second referendum on Brexit
        https://www.independent.co.uk/final-say

        Guardian: Lara Spirit: Young people won’t forgive those who deny us a vote on this botched Brexit
        We refuse to let politicians create a more isolated, insular nation and destroy our futures. We demand a final say
        This Saturday, I will be among tens of thousands of young people marching on Westminster to call for a people’s vote on Brexit…

        Guardian: Former MI6 boss (Sir John Sawers) says Brexit makes UK more vulnerable to attacks like Russian novichok poisoning

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    pat

    21 Oct: Asah Shimbun: Reuters: India to put former top climate change official on trial for sexual harassment
    NEW DELHI–An Indian court has ordered the trial of sexual harassment charges against one of world’s leading climate change experts, Rajendra K. Pachauri, his lawyer said on Saturday…
    Pachauri is accused of making physical advances, wrongful restraint, sending unwanted emails, and messages…
    The Delhi court has charged Pachauri under sections of the Indian Penal code including sexual harassment and outraging the modesty of a woman.
    The trial begins on Jan. 4, his counsel said.
    http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ201810210013.html

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    pat

    20 Oct: Times-Picayune: Climate change lawsuit filed by Louisiana teen, 20 other youths frozen by U.S. Supreme Court: reports
    By Drew Broach
    The “climate kids” lawsuit filed by a Louisiana teenager and 20 other young people against the federal government has been interrupted by the U.S. Supreme Court 10 days before it was set to go to trial, E&E News reports (LINK). Chief Justice John Roberts’ order on Friday (Oct. 19) gave the Trump administration a temporary victory in its long-running effort to throw the case out of court…

    Roberts froze further discovery and trial in federal court in Eugene, Ore., pending more information from the plaintiffs. according to The Register-Guard (LINK)…
    https://www.nola.com/crime/2018/10/climate-kids-lawsuit-filed-by-louisiana-teen-20-other-youths-frozen-by-us-supreme-court-reports.html

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    pat

    a few headlines to finish:

    Climate change is exacerbating world conflicts, says Red Cross President
    ‘It’s obvious some of the violence we are observing … is directly linked to climate change,’ says Peter Maurer
    The Guardian-7 hours ago
    Maurer, who was in Australia to speak about the changing nature of modern conflict, said concern about the impact of climate change in the Pacific was “enormous”.
    He said changing rainfall patterns change the fertility of land and push populations, who may have settled and subsisted in one area for centuries, to migrate…

    Mayo MP Rebekha Sharkie pushing to meet with PM on climate change, Nauru as Government’s power hangs in balance
    The Advertiser · 49 mins ago

    Wentworth won’t prompt climate rethink, says Frydenberg
    The Guardian-10 hours ago

    Wentworth climate change, asylum seeker views not for Qld
    Courier Mail · 1 hour ago

    Labor to question cuts to forecasting at Adelaide’s Bureau of Meteorology
    The Advertiser-4 hours ago

    ACT Greens push for more government owned electric cars
    The Canberra Times-8 hours ago
    As part of the ACT governments push for zero-emissions vehicles, the Greens want local jurisdictions to join a “bulk buy” purchase of electric cars for government fleets.

    I offered Turnbull a climate envoy job, says Rudd
    SMH – 21 Oct 2018
    Kevin Rudd has revealed he offered to make a wounded Malcolm Turnbull his personal envoy on climate change, in the aftermath of the 2009 Liberal leadership spill.
    The former Labor prime minister said the former member for Wentworth did not accept the offer but said it was one of the kindest gestures made to him in politics and kinder than anything said to him from his colleagues on his own side…
    Mr Rudd reveals their conversation in his new book The PM Years…
    “He agreed to think about it … I never heard back from Turnbull regarding the offer.”…
    Mr Rudd says his offer to Mr Turnbull made it all the more galling when Mr Turnbull reneged on his promise to endorse Mr Rudd to nominate as Australia’s candidate for the United Nations secretary-general in 2015…

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    pat

    ALERT. FINAL FINAL COMMENT FOR THE NIGHT:

    21 Oct: MichaelSmithNews: PM in exile Malcolm Turnbull to attend Bali climate summit at Morrison’s behest
    This is real – I’ve checked it.
    Scott Morrison is determined to be Australia’s shortest serving prime minister.
    After all the pain of getting rid of Turnbull – Morrison brings him back. Officially…

    What the hell is he doing representing us at a climate forum?
    God knows what commitments he’ll make on our behalf.
    The Liberals are inept. They don’t deserve to keep office.
    (EXCERPT OF ARTICLE NOT LINKED)
    https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2018/10/pm-in-exile-malcolm-turnbull-to-attend-bali-climate-summit-at-morrisons-behest.html

    wondered if it were real…

    19 Oct: AFR: Phillip Coorey: Don’t punish me for dumping Malcolm Turnbull: PM’s final plea in byelection
    “I know you are angry, I understand you are angry, I was there when it was happening supporting the then-prime minister when they were seeking to take him down and I stood by him,” Mr Morrison said…

    ***However, AFR Weekend has confirmed Mr Turnbull will travel to Bali at the end of next week to represent Australia at an Oceans summit at the request of Mr Morrison.
    While there, he plans to have talks with Indonesian President Joko Widodo to shore up support for the Australia-Indonesia Free Trade Agreement, which Mr Morrison is hoping to sign next month at either the ASEAN or APEC summits…
    https://www.afr.com/news/dont-punish-me-for-dumping-malcolm-turnbull-pms-final-plea-in-byelection-20181018-h16u51

    ???????????????

    Our Ocean Our Legacy 2018 – Bali 29-30 Oct 2018
    The oceans carry not only living artifacts and history, but also the promise of our future. Its undulating vastness holds our key to economic growth, food security resources as well as solution to curb the impact of climate change. However, the oceans are under immense pressure due to adverse impact of human activities. Marine pollution, bleaching coral reefs, raising sea temperature, and unsustainable fishing continues to occur…
    https://ourocean2018.org/

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    Another Ian

    Would you believe it?

    ” PM in exile Malcolm Turnbull to attend Bali climate summit at Morrison’s behest
    Sunday, 21 October 2018

    This is real – I’ve checked it.

    Scott Morrison is determined to be Australia’s shortest serving prime minister.

    After all the pain of getting rid of Turnbull – Morrison brings him back. Officially.

    Malcolm Turnbull is poisonous, vindictive and likely to act in his own interest to the detriment of others.”

    https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2018/10/pm-in-exile-malcolm-turnbull-to-attend-bali-climate-summit-at-morrisons-behest.html

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    PeterS

    After sleeping on it I feel better about the loss of the Wentworth seat to an independent. It could have been far worse – Labor+Greens could have won it. It’s also some good news with respect to the broader picture. As I suspected for some time we might find ourselves with neither major party winning the next election in their own right by a wide margin. It manes a lot of minor parties will have to negotiate amongst themselves and with one of the major parties to form government. It’s not the best outcome but it should be far better than having the ALP+Greens winning in their own right. Even if Shorten becomes PM at least there will be some restraint placed upon them.

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  • #
    Dennis

    Why did my comment go to #58?

    Dennis
    October 22, 2018 at 7:37 am · Reply
    Former PM Turnbull will represent Australia at the UN IPCC Bali Climate Summit.

    https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2018/10/pm-in-exile-malcolm-turnbull-to-attend-bali-climate-summit-at-morrisons-behest.html

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    Robber

    Soaring power futures pressure Victoria
    Victorian baseload power futures for 2019, which indicate what traders and power companies think prices will average next year, were at $96.10 per megawatt hour last week, up from $80 at the start of July. March quarter futures, which cover the bulk of summer, were at $130 per MWh. The expectation of higher wholesale power prices comes with rising gas and coal export prices (which local power stations have to compete with); coal power station outages raising questions about the reliability of the ageing east coast coal fleet; low water levels at hydro power stations and expectations of a warmer than usual summer.
    One senior industry source said the only way Victorian retail prices wouldn’t rise in January was if retailers took political considerations into account and accepted a hit to their bottom lines.
    And the only thing in the pipeline? More solar and wind installations – and that won’t help on those still, hot nights. But that “surplus” capacity will make coal and gas stations lower their utilisation and become less economic.
    Where is our Minister for lowering electricity prices? ScoMo’s last hope? But maybe Matthew Guy can step up and destroy Dan the CFMEU/UFU man in Vic elections in 5 weeks?

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      robert rosicka

      Not much the Feds can do if a socialist state does its best to punish coal fired generators and won’t allow gas exploration.

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    Dennis

    Please see important information @ #58 & #59

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    Dennis

    22/10/2018

    Postcard from Malcolm Turnbull published at Morning Mail today, back side printed;

    On the reverse was written;
    Well,
    My work here is done.
    I have edged the country to the left.
    It was a great personal sacrifice to me to have to quit politics,
    but the goal was worth it.
    The Liberal Party is finished and from the wreck will emerge
    a giant one party, an amalgam of Conservative and Labor.
    And a Republic.
    Best Wishes,
    Malcolm

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    Chad

    Why do the Libs tolerate traitors in the party ?
    Hewson, Turncoat, etc …should be formally and publicly expelled for actions /statements that undermine party policies.
    I guess it reflects the weak leadership of the party generally.

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    Chad

    Oh boy !!
    The blog has become a random post number generator now.
    No logic or sequencing at all ??

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    Geoffrey Williams

    Just heard on Alan Jones this morning that Scott Morrison has appointed Malcolm Turnbull to represent Australia at some up and coming world climate meeting. Poor judgement by Morrison.
    Anyone know more . . .
    GeoffW

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    MudCrab

    Jo,

    could you have linked to the AEC instead of the ABC for the vote counts?

    I actively avoid the ABC in order to support my argument that they are no use to me and the entire establishment should be burnt to the ground, salt should be ceremonially sown in their land and the survivors banished. I would be a bit of a tool if I wished all these things AND still used them for election results now, wouldn’t I? :D

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    pat

    insanity:

    22 Oct: Guardian: Kerryn Phelps increases lead over Dave Sharma in Wentworth byelection – politics live
    The independent has reached what looks to be an unassailable lead, sending the government into minority. All the day’s events, live
    by Amy Remeikis
    5m ago 10:22
    The Greens also have some things to say about the Wentworth result:
    “The Wentworth result is the canary in the coal mindset. If you don’t have a plan to get off coal and onto renewables, voters will punish you,” Adam Bandt said in a statement.
    “Even Australia’s richest electorate knows that you can’t make money if the planet is cooked.
    “Voters have heard the scientists’ message that we need to shut two thirds of coal-fired power stations by 2030.
    “I won’t be offering support to the Morrison Government. It’s time to go to an election.
    “It’s clear that people have had enough of this rotten government’s agenda…
    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2018/oct/22/politics-live-wentworth-australia-coalition-labor

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    pat

    Ray Hadley/2GB has been talking about the AFR/Phillip Coorey article re the PM sending Turnbull to the Bali Oceans/climate event. Hadley doesn’t seem to have noticed the earlier instances.

    3 Oct: SMH: Malcolm Turnbull given a formal overseas travel entitlement not granted to other ex-PMs
    By Jacqueline Maley
    Mr Turnbull, who is in New York on a privately funded trip after the Liberal Party removed him as leader in August, has already twice formally represented the government at the United Nations headquarters. The first time was for a high-level panel on building a sustainable ocean economy, the second the launch of an initiative to advance non-tobacco investments.

    Mr Morrison asked him to appear at both events but a spokesperson for Mr Turnbull said the former prime minister would not claim any taxpayer expenses for his New York trip…
    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/malcolm-turnbull-given-a-formal-overseas-travel-entitlement-not-granted-to-other-ex-pms-20181002-p507c7.html

    of course, given Turnbull’s recent behaviour re Wentworth/Sharma, the Bali climate story and the talks with the Indonesian President on behalf of the Govt is simply NOT ON. surely any such arrangement will be dropped.

    Turnbull and John Hewson should not even be in the Liberal Party.

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    LittleOil

    26,000 Votes Missing in Wentworth?
    There is a hidden story in Wentworth. Dr Phelps won by about 1,000 votes after preferences. There are 104,000 registered voters in the electorate. 78,000 voted of which 4,000 were informal. What is the story behind the 26,000 registered voters who did not vote and the 4,000 informal votes? (Figures rounded up from AEC Tally Room)

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      what a weird thing to write. Scroll down the aec page for the election and find this heading

      Declaration vote scrutiny progress

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      el gordo

      ‘…the 4,000 informal votes?’

      The Informal Movement is in its infancy, but if the Labor/Green alliance secure the Treasury Benches then we can expect numbers to swell in the years ahead.

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    pat

    I don’t know what to make of the Bondi votes’ story, but noting the following for those who understand it better:

    20 Oct: CatallaxyFiles: Wentworth Forum
    duncanm
    #2846045, posted on October 21, 2018 at 8:12 pm
    Kerryn Phelps has increased her vote by another 679 votes after Bondi Public recount
    She’s home.
    how does that work when Bondi Public polled a total of 686 2PP for Phelps?
    679/686 = 99%
    99% of the votes in that booth were initially miscounted?…

    Arnost
    #2846063, posted on October 21, 2018 at 8:29 pm
    Actually – that Bondi Public school count IS rather sus.
    According to AEC, there were 1100 formal votes of which Sharma and Phelps won 700. This leaves 400 to be divided as preferences. So finding 690 preferences at that booth looks to be very creative.
    Or am I missing something?…

    Farmer Gez
    #2846095, posted on October 21, 2018 at 8:56 pm
    The recount in Bondi must have changed the final poll positions of candidates and the distribution of preferences follows the new order.
    That is the only way you could get a 679 change. That tells you the result in that booth was swinging on a handful of votes. A challenge for sure…

    Arnost
    #2846111, posted on October 21, 2018 at 9:07 pm
    The recount in Bondi must have changed the final poll positions of candidates and the distribution of preferences follows the new order.
    That would make sense if Labor (or anyone else) finished in 2nd place in front of Phelps. But both the Greens and Labor were 200 votes each behind both Sharma and Phelps.
    The time stamp on the AEC page is 8:15 yesterday- so either it’s not updated with more vote found, or there is something not ko$her.
    Bondi Public School (LINK still shows: Updated: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 8:15:53 PM AEDT)
    http://catallaxyfiles.com/2018/10/20/wentworth-forum/comment-page-3/

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    pat

    17 Oct: WashingtonFreeBeacon: NPR: How Do We Talk to the Dangerous Idiots Who Disagree With Us?
    By David Rutz
    I listened to a remarkable bit of self-parody on National Public Radio on Tuesday: a moderator, a pair of experts, and some very earnest listeners trying to figure out how to most politely tell climate change skeptics they are dangerous idiots.

    Yes, on NPR’s “1A,” finding a way to convert those neanderthals, or at least move the “conversation” in the right direction, was the topic of nearly 40 minutes of chatter that was at times quite unintentionally funny.

    To be clear, this program was not about debating the existence of climate change. That was already settled for everyone whose head isn’t stuck in a microwave. This was about talking to pea-brains who do not fully believe drastic policy changes are required to combat climate change, and—this is important—having these “conversations” in a way that would not frighten or anger these stunted children…READ ON
    https://freebeacon.com/blog/npr-how-do-we-talk-to-the-dangerous-idiots-who-disagree-with-us/

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    OriginalSteve

    Interesting take on NZ politics…has NZ been hypnotized by labor?

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-22/jacinda-ardern-first-year-new-zealand-prime-minister/10403664

    “Shortly before last year’s general election in Aotearoa New Zealand, a Morrinsville farmer protesting the then opposition Labour Party’s planned water tax held up a placard describing its newly minted leader, Jacinda Ardern, as a “pretty communist”.”

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    pat

    21 Oct: Breitbart: Groups Promoting Anti-Brexit ‘People’s Vote’ March Funded by the EU
    by Jack Montgomery
    Some of the groups promoting the march for a so-called ‘People’s Vote’ for another Brexit referendum were directly funded by the EU, according to reports.
    The People’s Vote campaign has been dubbed the ‘Losers’ Vote’ by critics, after the fact that ‘The People’ already voted against EU membership in the 2016 referendum on the issue.

    It has also been described as ‘The Soros Vote’ by Nigel Farage, in a nod to the fact that many the people pushing hardest for a second referendum are super-rich establishment figures — billionaire plutocrat and open borders campaigner George Soros being foremost among them.

    However, there is evidence that some of the groups promoting the campaign’s march through metropolitan London on October 20th were directly funded by the EU itself — to the tune of hundreds of thousands of euros, according (LINK) to Guido Fawkes…
    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2018/10/21/groups-promoting-anti-brexit-peoples-march-funded-eu/

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    beowulf

    Hands up all those who think Morrison isn’t a cretin . . . not so fast there you three.

    From Michael Smith who says he has checked its veracity:

    Malcolm Turnbull will AT MORRISON’S PERSONAL REQUEST represent Australia at an international summit on oceans and climate change to be held in Bali on October 29 & 30.

    I’ll comment no further.

    https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2018/10/pm-in-exile-malcolm-turnbull-to-attend-bali-climate-summit-at-morrisons-behest.html

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    pat

    didn’t realise until yesterday that Dave Sharma worked for Downer:

    Wikipedia: Dave Sharma: From 2004 to 2006 he served as the legal adviser to Foreign Affairs Minister Alexander Downer…

    came across this today – Downer calls voters ‘MISERABLES’!

    23 Sept: AFR: Dear voters: Australia’s political chaos is your fault
    by Alexander Downer
    No elected official should blame the public for an adverse election outcome. When Hillary Clinton described the Trump voters as the “deplorables” we all knew she was finished. You can’t say that in public life…

    First, let’s take our old friend climate change. The public overwhelmingly want Australia to contribute to lowering greenhouse emissions. At the very least they want us to make a proportional contribution to the global task of CO2 mitigation.
    But here’s the rub. They don’t want to pay more for electricity. Yet the reason we have the Renewable Energy Target and other subsidies is to force power producers to use more expensive and less reliable – but cleaner – sources of power. And the people who suffer the most from higher power prices are the poor. Carbon taxes are regressive.

    The public demand is simple; cheaper and cleaner power. In the short term it can’t be done. This contradictory demand has contributed mightily to the fractious and unstable politics both between parties and within parties.

    ***What is more, the public has demanded Australia abandon one of its greatest comparative advantages; cheap power fuelled by coal…

    ***One of the reasons Rudd Labor defeated the Howard government in 2007 was that you wanted us to ratify the Kyoto Protocol…

    ***And then there are the coal mines. Much of the public want them closed…

    So that’s one problem with our polity: ***you’re never happy. Everyone in power is inadequate
    What’s truly dangerous about this is where it could lead. There are already signs that you think independents might be better. This is a path to national ruin…

    The Wentworth by election will be a test. Dave Sharma – ***who worked for me for two years – is intellectually brilliant…
    https://www.afr.com/opinion/columnists/dear-voters-australias-political-chaos-is-your-fault-20180923-h15qm1

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    pat

    CAGW is so toxic in US, Steyer cannot be associated with it. MSM never even hints at his climate advocacy:

    18 Oct: SthFloridaSunSentinel: California billionaire donates $2 million more to Andrew Gillum
    By Anthony Man
    The money comes in addition to previous donations to Gillum and extensive efforts on behalf of political organizations Steyer founded and funds, NextGen America and Need to Impeach…
    “If you were going to choose a single race that has the most national significance, it would be the governor’s race in Florida,” Steyer told CNN.

    The latest donation is $2 million to Gillum’s political committee, Steyer said. NextGen distributed the CNN story to its Twitter followers Thursday morning and added: “We’re in it to win it. Andrew Gillum is the future of the Democratic Party and the future of America.”…

    Need to Impeach, Steyer’s organization aimed at rallying support to remove President Donald Trump from office, will send direct mail touting Gillum to its 300,000 Florida supporters. Gillum supports impeaching Trump…
    NextGen’s efforts in Florida have been aimed primarily at young voters…

    Leading up to the state’s Oct. 9 voter registration deadline, NextGen said it registered 50,771 young voters across the state.
    Like other political organizations, NextGen is now shifting to get out the vote efforts, using old-school techniques and technology…
    NextGen teams have knocked on more than 90,000 doors to connect with voters, Florida spokeswoman Maya Humes said.
    And as of Thursday morning, it’s sent 23,095 text messages to remind voters about Election Day, something strategists see as a good way to reach younger voters.

    NextGen has a Blue Wave Volunteer digital organizing program. Volunteers can sign up to send texts to voters in their spare time. Before the primary, NextGen organizers and volunteers sent 300,000 texts about Gillum’s background and platform…
    When early voting starts on Monday, NextGen will be offering rides to the polls, marches to the polls and continue on-campus events and door knocking, Humes said…

    Steyer’s political activities have fueled speculation that he might run for president in 2020…
    Though NextGen America is active in 11 states, Steyer’s involvement in the primary was unusual. He endorsed Gillum in Florida and one of the U.S. Senate candidates in his home state of California…
    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/fl-ne-tom-steyer-billionaire-andrew-gillum-governor-20181018-story.html

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    TdeF

    Depressing to even think about the damage Malcolm Turnbull has done. His great uncle was the leader of the British Labor party. Malcolm’s family was Labor Royalty. Neville Wran was Malcolm’s BFF, according to Malcolm. Surely that should have made someone think a bit harder?

    So I have been musing on the coming ban on methane and its production by evil ruminants. This is all done by bacteria. The new push is to get rid of cows and stop the production of methane, which allegedly is 30x worse than Carbon Dioxide. Fine. So we get rid of the only animals from cows to horses, camels and termites which can digest cellulose. Who is going to eat the grass? Eating grass is now banned.

    The insanity is that carnivores eat meat and do not generate methane. So we should all eat like carnivores, to stop Climate Change but we have to get rid of the herbivores. So its goodbye tigers and lions and wolves and foxes and eagles. Goodbye all the animals, as they either generate methane or depend on animals which do. Lions do not like salads.

    Of course we could all sit around eating sustainably grown organic beans delivered by hand carts, while refusing to mow the lawn because it is carbon capturing and it would rot if we cut it. Sounds like heaven.

    Is there any part of man made Climate Change which actually makes sense? Saving the planet because it cannot save itself.

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      Annie

      ‘Lions do not like salads’! I suggest we feed them some greenies, although not sure whether Leo would find them palatable.

      Unmown grass represents a massive fire hazard in the summer, at least, it does hereabouts. I’ve been mowing and brush-cutting where we can’t put stock atm. Fences are expensive and we still need some repaired.

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        Annie

        I’m not sure that beans, organic or otherwise, are the best answer to cutting atmospheric ‘pollution’, are you?

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        TdeF

        This was tried in the Disney film Madagascar. They ended up feeding the lion on sushi. In Simba, the meal was wood lice. Just what you need for a healthy lion. What can you do with a generation of children brought up on the fantasy that lions could or even should be vegetarians. I love the little girl who told Prince Harry that we do not name kangaroos, we eat them.

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        robert rosicka

        What self respecting lion would eat a dreadlocked unwiped unwashed drugged up watermeloned tie dyed greentard tofu and bug munching hipster lefty commo from inner the inner city !

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    pat

    i’m watching this on fox news now – repeat from this morning.
    Fox article has shorter video. incredible.

    Youtube: 39min57sec: Life Liberty & Levin FOX NEWS | Mark Levin Oct 21 2018
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmqqRF9lkfw

    21 Oct: Fox News: The truth about global warming
    Dr. Patrick Michaels, director of the Center for the Study of Science at the Cato Institute, provides insight into the debate over climate change and the political games played to create policy.
    https://www.foxnews.com/shows/life-liberty-levin

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    Ciantar

    Will Kerryn Phelps note how strong the swing against the greens was and not try to put their crazy policies in action?

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    pat

    Dennis Shanahan of The Australian just on Peta Credlin show/Sky. he said it’s a good thing Morrison is sending Turnbull to Bali for the climate event!!!!!

    Credlin said the Liberal base won’t like it. Shanahan said they may not support it, but the 30% or so who voted for Kerryn Phelps will support it!!!!!

    is Shanahan mad? is Morrison mad?

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      TdeF

      All are trying to please the Green minority. This has been the case for a decade. The political theory is that Labor people will vote Labor. Liberal people will barrack Liberal. Only the LGBITWTF Greens need pleasing. (stolen from former Labor leader Mark Latham)

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    Crakar24

    After constantly being told roxby downs will be a full 2C hotter than woomera I had a closer look at the bom data.

    When I read the station is sited at the Olympic dam airport I saw no reason to read further, another example of dodgy bom data.

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    James McCown

    What is the current retail price of gasoline in Australia?

    I’m currently paying about $2.50 per gallon in Oklahoma. That translates to about $0.93 Australian per litre.

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      Annie

      It’s heading for $1.70lt here in places; best recently locally for unleaded was c. $1.50lt. Others might be able to be more precise but most people in Eastern Australia are probably asleep by now!
      I’m still up as my mother in England was in chatty mode tonight.

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        Robber

        $1.50-1.60/litre in Melb. That includes govt excise tax of 41 cents, plus 10% GST, so say $1.00 to compare with your .93 cents, plus 41 gives 1.41 plus 10% GST gives $1.55.

        00