JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Midweek Unthreaded

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Midweek Unthreaded, 8.7 out of 10 based on 26 ratings

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283 comments to Midweek Unthreaded

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  • #
    Dennis

    This must be passed around to MPs and other contacts …

    Brain washing children, climate change beat up;

    http://morningmail.org/change-everything-bet/#more-91721

    60

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Disturbing stuff…..

      Ive been teaching my daughter to think critically. Half the problem with kids is they dont have time on the planet to see there is another side to things, they just swallow what authroity figures ( teachers ) dish up through the corrupted “Curriculum”

      the Leftists are too cunning to call it waht it is – Trotskyism in Class, so they deliver the awful toxic payload wrapped in fluffy words and platitudes, but with a hard left-wing barb embedded into it.

      Teach your kids to think critically *now*, our you will lose them to these jackals….

      191

      • #
        Dennis

        Good advice, but I fear that the corruption of the system is well entrenched now.

        Not meaning don’t fight back of course.

        100

        • #
          robert rosicka

          Schools have been indoctrinating kids for years , I won’t say here what my kids were taught but can only imagine the CAGW scare is big .

          91

      • #
        Roger

        Go to Breitbart.com and under the politics heading see the article on NPC Memes.

        I couldn’t stop laughing at how totally appropriate it is.

        40

    • #
      GD

      Why does the Morning Mail use such an unreadable format for their blog?

      I’d like to read it, but the text formatting is just plain ugly.

      20

  • #
    Greg in NZ

    Everyday I like to check how ‘hot’ Greenland and Antarctica are because, like, we’ve cooked them, right?

    http://www.summitcamp.org/status/weather/

    Greenland -39˚C with -53˚C wind chill (may fluctuate as updated regularly).

    http://amrc.ssec.wisc.edu/data/view-data.php?action=view_image&product=surface/plot/TAC.GIF

    Antarctica -64˚C (Dome Fuji / Valkyrie).

    Do green eggspurts know what that (-) negative sign in front of a number means?

    140

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Not only that the inconvenient truth that the Greenland ice is INCREASING.

      https://www.iceagenow.info/greenland-ice-sheet-far-above-the-mean-2/
      This chart from the Danish Meteorological Institute . So are they on the hit list too?
      Also
      https://www.iceagenow.info/headed-19th-ice-age-7500-years/

      100

      • #
        Hanrahan

        I like the story of Glacier Girl, a P38 that landed as part of a flight, lost and out of fuel in Greenland. 50 years later there was 268 feet of ice over the plane. It was recovered and restored.

        160

      • #
        Greg in NZ

        theRealUniverse, http://www.dmi.dk/en/groenland/maalinger/greenland-ice-sheet-surface-mass-budget/ I posted this link to a NZ warmunist site last year when the author/ess/it was on a rant about humanity ‘malting’ Greenland – hilarious as 2017 was a year of massive ice GROWTH. S/he/it completely missed the all-too-easy-to-see graphs showing ACCUMULATING ice, yet managed to find the tiny text (which hasn’t been updated for years) claiming ‘Greenland is losing mass at about 200 Gt/yr.’ The vitriolic name-calling – and usual references to that river in Egypt – ensued, all with the writing skill of an 8-year-old throwing a tantrum.

        The Danish Meteorological Institute’s daily Arctic sea ice thickness and volume chart: http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/icethickness/thk.uk.php No wonder there’s been no press about the ‘malting’ sea ice in the Arctic this year – the Canadian/US NW Passage never opened due to so much frozen sea ice while Russia’s NE Passage was open for months and still is. Ah, must be Trumpian collusion, no less! Meanwhile Morocco’s Atlas Mountains – in North Africa – received their first dose of winter snow thanks to ex-troppo Leslie this week; Siberia’s already had a few freezing blizzards roar through, while it snowed almost to the Mexican border a few days ago when Texas had its first taste of frigid Canadian/Arctic air. Methinks that theoretical goebbels vormink has definitely, finally, runaway… woosh!

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        • #
          Annie

          Will the ‘malting’ make up for reduced beer production elsewhere?!

          80

        • #
          sophocles

          As long as NZ still has plenty of the frothy amber fluid, we’ll be all right.
          Consumption during the cold patches may fall away … just a bit.

          Greg: any plans to try out the Texas experience, or the Moroccan one? I have been told by one who might have known that going over frozen sand dunes is an experience. Wouldn’t know, myself so can’t fact check that.

          Annie: the rest of the world will just have to wait for their allocation to be exported … when we get around to it … if we ever do. Got to keep us natives supplied first … :-) .

          20

    • #
      RickWill

      Do green eggspurts know what that (-) negative sign in front of a number means?

      Not the ones compiling the HadCRUT temperature record. They take it or leave it depending on whether it is old data or new data; anything that helps a flat trend go upward.

      100

  • #
    Peter

    In the scheme of things electricity has not been available to us for all that long, but is as essential to us now as the air we breath.
    I cannot believe the Government can fool around with this precious commodity the way they do.
    All our politicians are AWOL on this issue. Who will I vote for? None of these halfwits!!

    200

  • #
    TdeF

    The NPC meme applies equally to Climate Change. Funny.

    The meme works for Climate Change activists as well. Every time the wind blows, it’s climate change.

    also

    In the crowd, “PUT WOMEN IN THE CONSTITUTION”. What about LGBITQ Cherokees then?

    The pressure of conforming must be great. Does no one think these things through? What happened to equality?

    Now the violent anti-fascist fascists are demanding we change our very Constitution to turn everyone into a minority. One group is asking Australia to have a Bill of Rights, the very antithesis of how British law works. We have laws, not rights. In fact we now have an absurd Human Rights Commission with no power, except to threaten.

    Climate Change is just one of the madder and easily the most expensive NPC movements Backed by carpetbaggers like ex Liberal leader John Hewson who clearly stands to benefit personally from pushing funding of solar.

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    • #
      Kinky Keith

      Solar MeToo.

      Which reminds me;

      The only reason I like the Liberals is that Labor is worse.

      KK

      140

      • #
        Hanrahan

        Sometimes you have little option but to vote for the “least worst”. It’s easy for me, I’ve been self employed most of my life and no party did much for me so I have no deep alliance. I do know that I will never vote for the Rudd/Gillard/Shorten labor party as long as I’m on the green side of the grass.

        130

        • #
          Kinky Keith

          That’s where I stand too.

          70

        • #
          David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

          Hope that doesn’t mean you’ll vote for the Greens??
          Cheers,
          Dave B

          50

        • #
          destroyer D69

          This from ZeroHedge site.Applies frighteningly well to the situation here.

          .

          100% Moron Tribe
          CJ Hopkins Offers Some Advice: “Do Not Vote. For Anyone. At All”
          Profile picture for user Tyler Durden
          by Tyler Durden
          Tue, 10/16/2018 – 18:20
          0
          SHARES

          Authored by CJ Hopkins via The Unz Review,

          So, it’s three weeks before the US midterm elections, and it looks like we have got ourselves a horse race! That’s right, folks, once again, it’s time to start playing with those forecast maps on Real Clear Politics and FiveThirtyEight, and obsessively following the fluctuating poll numbers of congressional candidates you have never heard of competing in districts you couldn’t locate if someone held a gun to your head. You need to start doing this immediately, if not sooner, as the stakes in these midterms could not be higher. Nothing less than the continued existence of “American democracy” hangs in the balance, so the ruling classes need every last one of us to get out there and vote for somebody!

          The fact that it only marginally matters who that somebody that you vote for is should not dissuade you from voting for somebody. Voting for somebody is your civic duty, and is no less important than rooting for a sports team, or maintaining a personal favorite color, or celebrity, or brand of hemorrhoid creme. Remember, if you don’t vote for somebody, somebody else is going to win, and we can’t afford to let that happen!

          Now, your choices this year are particularly exciting, despite the fact that they are exactly the same as in every other US election since approximately the 1970s. Yes, that’s right, once again, it’s the Transgender Panethnic Communists of Color versus the Old White Cisnormal Capitalist Nazis, and what a spectacle it promises to be! The Old White Cisnormal Capitalist Nazis (hereinafter the “OWCCN”) currently control … well, pretty much everything (i.e., the House, the Senate, and executive branch), and so the Transgender Panethnic Communists of Color (hereinafter the “TPCoC”) are hungry, and are looking for some serious payback after getting their butts kicked in 2016. Rumor has it, the TPCoC are preparing to unleash a “Blue Tsunami” on vulnerable OWCCN incumbents, take control of the House of Representatives, and then not impeach the ass clown President they’ve been telling everyone for the last two years is both a traitorous Russian intelligence asset and the resurrection of Adolf Hitler.

          And, if that isn’t exciting enough for you already, they’ve got all kinds of other life-and-death issues to emotionally pressure you into picking a team to fanatically root for on social media, and then getting out and voting for somebody. How blatantly to humiliate illegal immigrants, how affluent you have to be to obtain an abortion, how much interest banks can charge when you pay for your chemo with an Amazon card, and which pronouns law enforcement officers are required to use to refer to people whose homes they barge into and unintentionally murder, are just a few of the many “hot-button” questions requiring your democratic input.

          Other questions, like whether to invade or just strategically bomb Iran or Syria, or some other non-ball-playing Middle East country, or pour billions more in military aid into Israel, or sell billions in weapons to Saudi Arabia, or foment a coup in Venezuela, or maintain almost eight hundred military outposts in over seventy foreign countries all around the world, are questions that do not require your input. The global capitalist ruling classes, the corporations they own and operate, their friends in the government and the intelligence agencies, and the corporate media will take care of all that. Same goes for those Wall Street banks, and the next looming global financial crisis, and those mass extinctions, and this wacky weather. The grown-ups with the fancy suits and haircuts are handling all that complicated stuff. You just worry about all those other issues, and get out there and vote for somebody!

          Seriously, though, for those unfamiliar with the ins and outs of U.S. politics, our election cycle, and these midterm elections, and thus do not have the slightest idea what I’m even referring to, here’s what’s going on in a nutshell …

          On November 6, 2018, Americans will be returning to the polls to exercise their inalienable right to choose between two corporate-financed, ruling class-vetted political stooges competing for the chance to pretend to represent them in the House of Representatives and the Senate, and in various gubernatorial, municipal, and somewhat lesser distinguished chambers. A selection of non-ruling-class-vetted candidates will also appear on a handful of ballots. Americans will be free to vote for such candidates, as long as they realize they are just wasting their time, and possibly damaging the “serious” candidates, which the corporate media will remind them they are doing at every available opportunity.

          See, unlike in backward European countries, where some semblance of a parliament still exists, and there are actual campaign finance restrictions and limits on televised campaign advertising, in the United States, where everyone is free, voting for non-ruling-class-vetted candidates, in a midterm or any other election, is about as effective as voting for a sandwich … or for, you know, some narcissistic billionaire ass clown who swears he is going to “drain the swamp,” and build “a beautiful wall,” or whatever. The system is designed to guarantee that no matter which ruling class stooge you vote for, and even if you vote for a character like Trump just to stick it to the establishment for once, it makes no difference … or, OK, very little difference.

          The reason for this is not a big mystery. When a seat in the Senate goes for ten million dollars and a seat in the House for over a million, and there are no real restrictions on campaign financing, and the corporate-owned media decide in advance which candidates will be given airtime, and considered “serious” by the mainstream pundits who work for the handful of corporations that own the vast majority of newspapers, television and radio stations, and internet platforms that control the flow of information to the American public … well, it would kind of be a little odd, wouldn’t it, if authentic anti-ruling-class candidates were allowed to enter and compete in that system?

          Most Americans understand this, which is why nearly half of them do not vote. It’s humiliating enough to be forced to live, and attempt to support a family, and so on, in a savage, neoliberal marketplace with virtually no social cohesion whatsoever, and in which the only real operative value is money, without also having to debase themselves by participating in the simulation of democracy that the capitalist ruling classes need to maintain in order to pretend that they are not just social parasites with a lot of goons and guns.

          Which brings me to the point of this essay. See, normally, I try like hell to avoid telling people what to do in my columns, but, after my last one, a number of readers wrote in asking for advice, so I’m going to make an exception, just this once.

          Here’s my advice. You’re not going to like it.

          Do not vote. For anyone. At all. Tell all your friends not to vote for anyone. Join the hundreds of millions of Americans who refuse to participate in the simulation of democracy. Take time off from work to vote, and then do not vote. Go see a movie, or have lunch with someone you haven’t seen in a while, or take a nice, long walk in the woods or something. Whatever you do, do not vote. Seriously. Please stop voting for these people. They’re not your friends. They mean you ill. They will shake your hand, kiss your baby, then sell you to the first pharmaceutical lobbyist, or military industrial lobbyist, or Israeli or Saudi Arabian lobbyist, that waltzes into their office with a check, or that threatens to turn their voters against them.

          You probably think I’m kidding. I’m not. Do not vote in these midterm elections. Or in any other American elections. Not while the system remains as it is. If you really want to vote, move to Europe, where at least there are still parliamentary structures, and a decent variety of political parties, and some restrictions on campaign financing and advertising. All you’re doing when you vote in America is reifying a simulation of democracy, and so perpetuating the system as it is.

          Oh, and while you’re at it, if you happen to work for any of those pharmaceutical companies, or any of those weapons manufacturers, or their suppliers, or for an investment bank, or a hedge fund, or private equity firm, or any other company, corporation, firm, consultancy, or department of government that is central to keeping the American political and economic system going as it is, quit your job and do something else. Seriously, go into the office today (or get up from your desk right now) and quit, and go find something else to do with the gift of your sentient life on this planet. I realize that might be a scary proposition, but that’s what it’s going to take to change things, a lot of people deciding they have had it and are not going to play the game anymore.

          That’s pretty much all the advice I’ve got. Sorry … I told you you weren’t going to like it.
          Politics

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          30

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            Reading up on the NPC meme, its perfect description of leftists – parrotting scripted lines….salivating on command….

            00

      • #
        JoKaH

        Solar MeToo.

        I don’t know how that goes but I do remember “O Sole Mio”

        40

    • #
      pat

      TdeF -

      haha…I just posted the Breitbart piece on jo’s Paul Barry/MediaWatch thread because, as u say, it applies equally to the CAGW memes.

      hope everyone checks it out. the cartoons are soooo funny.

      70

    • #
      MudCrab

      I was late to the NPC meme, ironically perhaps because I spend a lot of my free time playing computer games rather than following the Cool Kids on Twit.

      What continues to amuse me is the rewarding way that Lefties counter any mocking by doubling down on the original mock.

      When SoyBoy was in high rotation Lefties defended the claim that a high soy diet turned otherwise stable men into hysterical wimps who reacted with emotion over reason by emotionally screaming that there was no scientific link and soy didn’t make you react hysterically to minor problems.

      Now NPC seems to be countered with calls that all ‘sane’ people must show a united front to reject these cruel and dehumanising claims. Or to word it another way, they have patched in some new dialogue.

      “I used to be a Social Justice Warrior like you, then I took a meme to the knee!”

      70

  • #

    Contrary to poplar belief in green circles that coal fired power is too rigid and cannot be used for what they refer to as ‘distributed’ power, and that it cannot do load following because of its big lumbering ‘inertia’, that it just operates at the one set amount, coal fired power does in fact do all those things they say it can’t do.

    Regularly, on an hourly basis, coal fired power ramps up and down to follow the load, not only on the ‘fleet wide’ basis of all the Units in operation, but at the single Unit level as well.

    On a daily basis, the total power delivered from coal fired power ramps up and down by anything up to 4500MW to 5000MW, from a low at 4AM, to the morning peak, then back a little, and then up to the evening peak, the highest power generation of the day, and not just occasionally, but on every day.

    In fact, coal fired power is the only form of power generation which does follow the load. (albeit, so does hydro power to a lesser degree) The operators know when those rises and falls occur on a daily basis and just adjust their output accordingly as it happens.

    Wind power cannot do that. Solar power cannot do that. Rooftop solar power cannot do that. So, it’s disingenuous to ‘paint’ coal fired power in this false manner.

    While ever those Units are turned on and running, they deliver their power. They run at the same speed, flat out at their maximum, for the frequency purposes to supply their power at the set and rigid 50Hz, and for their output in MW, they just vary the excitation up or down to raise or lower their MW power delivery. Add that up across the whole fleet currently in operation, and you get that daily variation of that 4500MW to 5000MW.

    Sometimes I get ‘snarky’ responses that I’m no great supporter of wind or solar power, and I give their Capacity Factors as low as they actually are in some effort to portray wind and solar power as somehow poor. However, those Capacity Factors are indeed poor.

    Currently wind power is operating at around 32% Capacity Factor, solar plant power at around 14% Capacity Factor, and rooftop solar power at around 12% Capacity Factor.

    Some of those comments also ask why I don’t mention the Capacity Factor for coal fired power.

    Okay, so I mentioned that while ever they feed in coal at the front, you get (heaps and heaps of) MW out of the generators. So, they are ‘on’ all the time. They are off when they need maintenance, in the same manner as wind towers are off for their maintenance, but with those wind towers, they are effectively ‘on’ all the time, just waiting for the wind to blow to start them up, gently sucking power from the grid while waiting for the wind to pick up, but effectively, they are ‘on’ all the time.

    So then, in the case of all those coal fired Units which are currently running, you can calculate their Capacity Factor, the total possible generated power at their maximum all the time, and the actual power being generated across the daily basis. Some older Units cannot make their maximum any more, and then, as I mentioned above, they ramp up and down across the day.

    Currently, as always in those benign Months when power consumption is lower than it is in Winter and Summer, more of those Units are off line for maintenance, and now, in October, there are between nine and eleven Units down for maintenance or some for the ongoing Upgrades they are going through.

    So, we can take away those ‘down’ Units from the total Nameplate to give us an operational Nameplate for the total, and then calculate their output across the day (when ramping up and down from the low to high) to give us the average, and from that, I can then work out the operational Capacity Factor for coal fired power.

    Currently, coal fired power is averaging 88% Capacity Factor for those operating Units.

    On an overall basis, coal fired power, in those Months when more Units are off line, is still delivering 73% of ALL the power required to run the Country.

    Those three renewables of choice, wind power, solar power, and rooftop solar power are currently supplying 13.6% in totality.

    Close down those coal fired power plants, as suggested by the ABC, and Australia will just grind to a halt.

    Whatever, as it will NEVER be allowed to get to that point. Those renewables of choice CANNOT replace those coal fired plants, and until people realise that ‘green’ power is not the same as coal fired power, then those memes will keep gaining traction. The false sense of security is that the power coming out of that proverbial ‘hole in the wall’ is the same, no matter where it comes from, and that’s just not true.

    Tony.

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    • #
      Kinky Keith

      Hi Tony,

      Thanks for another great outline.

      As a technical side issue I’m curious to know about how excitation is varied.

      I have a vague image of throwing extra coils into the field of the rotor but ?

      KK

      81

      • #
        rollo

        In modern generators the exciters are static. The DC power for the electromagnet is from the main generator output itself. A number of high power thyristors rectify the AC current to produce a DC current which feeds to the rotor through slip rings. This eliminates the operation and maintenance problems associated with having another rotating machine. Static exciters offer a better control of the output than an electromechanical control.

        Another method is the brushless system. In this system the armature of the exciter is on the rotor shaft itself. The DC output of this armature, after rectification by solid-state devices, goes to the rotor coils. Since the armature and rotor are on the same rotating shaft, this eliminates the need for slip rings. Hence it reduces maintenance and operational requirements and thus improving reliability.

        Source: Bright Hub Engineering

        100

    • #
      pat

      thanks for that TonyfromOz. sadly, those with most access to the MSM try to claim otherwise.

      Jo – tried to find this all day yesterday, but failed.
      better late than never. I haven’t even listened as yet, as I want to get it up straight away:

      AUDIO: 12min59sec: 16 Oct: 2GB: Joanne Nova with Luke Grant (standing in for Michael McLaren)
      How reliable is the data used by climate change scientists? Science presenter and author of The Skeptic’s Handbook talks to Luke Grant about an important finding that has raised doubts about the accuracy of the world’s key temperature data.
      https://www.2gb.com/podcast/joanne-nova/

      230

    • #
      Greebo

      Tony, could apply for the job of advisor for Angus Taylor? He needs you. So do we.

      120

    • #
      Robber

      Tony, please submit this article or something similar to The Australian as an opinion peace.
      I am sure that Jo or others on this blog would be happy to critique and polish as necessary.
      It’s time to get the facts out there widely.

      130

      • #
        Robber

        Tony, here’s a proposed headline and summary for suggested opinion piece:
        Coal fired power keeps the lights on 24×7
        Coal fired generators on average deliver 73% of all the electricity required to keep Australia running.
        What’s more, they are flexible in following the demand curve from low requirements in the middle of the night to the morning and evening peaks. They are ably supplemented by gas and hydro that are very responsive to demand variations.
        By comparison, solar and wind do not respond to demand, they simply generate when the sun is shining and the wind is blowing respectively. Take Monday Oct 15 as an example (taken from Tony’s blog):
        Minimum demand 17,000 MW at 4am, coal delivered 12,600 MW.
        Maximum demand 24,400 MW at 7pm, coal delivered 17,000 MW, supplemented by 1,900 MW of gas, and 2,500 of hydro. Wind delivered 3,000 MW. But what happens on days when the wind doesn’t blow? Why the good old reliables of coal, gas and hydro must be available to meet peak demand, or the lights go out.

        100

    • #

      It’s easy for me to just ‘say’ that coal fired power follows the Load, but you can do the exercise for yourself to ‘see’ it.

      Go to this link at the Aneroid site, and this is for yesterday, October 16th.

      Once there and the site opens up fully, you’ll see the total power generation from every source, with all the boxes ticked under the graph, showing every source of power generation.

      Now, note that the box indicating ‘Total’ is not ticked. So, first thing, tick that box, and a solid black line will appear along the top of the graph.

      Okay now, under the graph, and leaving that black line still ticked, untick every one of those boxes excepting black coal (the grey colour) and brown coal. (the yellowish colour)

      You can scroll your mouse across the graph, and it will give you the totals in MW at each point in time, and it’s updated every five minutes. The total for coal fired power is the second entry along that yellow line, as they add them together.

      I mentioned above that the variation is around 4500MW to 5000MW, but also as I mentioned, we are in the benign Months with (now 11) Units down for maintenance and Upgrades, hence the variation for this day was only 3400MW, but note here how closely coal fired power follows that upper black line, which besides indicating total power generation, also indicates total power consumption at each of those points in time. So, it is in fact following the Load.

      As you might like to fiddle around with the graph, and those ticked boxes, be aware of the scale change for individual boxes, and for perspective, untick all boxes (including the total box) except the one for solar power, and you’ll see the big red blob at mid graph.

      Now tick that Total box and the solid black line reappears, an now try and see that solar power red blob.

      Tony.

      100

      • #
        Greebo

        I say again, talk to Angus…

        50

        • #
          Analitik

          It’d be interesting to see if Angus is more open to a member of the public personally presenting information and analysis of the state of the electricity grid.

          I received zero interest from the office of Josh Frydenberg when he was appointed Energy and Environment Minister when I submitted a 5 page letter with an offer to discuss further details in his office.

          50

          • #
            Ross Stacey

            I regularly pass info from here to Angas Taylor, my local member. I always get a courteous reply. I am sure he understands the science.

            30

    • #

      “Wind power cannot do that. Solar power cannot do that. Rooftop solar power cannot do that. So, it’s disingenuous to ‘paint’ coal fired power in this false manner.”
      You are so right Tony. They all seem to depend on the big generators to fill the gaps and effectively repair the regulation that they by fluctuation undo.

      90

    • #
      GD

      Tony, what a shame that you weren’t invited to the Outsiders program on SkyNews along with Jo and David.

      Tony, you have the cut through to expose this scam, this fallacy. Your down-to-Earth explanations are exactly what we and they need to hear.

      80

    • #
      PeterS

      Thanks Tom. If only such truths were in the MSM instead of the high proportion of lies they keep telling people. We need the equivalent of the ACCC to act as a media watch. Organisations telling blatant lies should be punished with massive fines. The next best thing of course is what JoNova and other blog sites are doing.

      60

  • #
    Ruairi

    To tamper with a nation’s grid base load,
    Will only make more problems down the road.

    Grand Solar Minimum could change a trend,
    And cause the summer Arctic melt to end.

    More warming, warns each faulty data set,
    When cooling is much more a pressing threat.

    Investigation, once a media must,
    Now so ignored, they fail the public trust.

    120

  • #
    Mark M

    Winning.

    You gotta love how President Trump plays on the foibles of the weak-minded, low-info failed doomsday global warming cultists.

    Take Andrew Dessler …

    “Donald Trump may not think climate change is a “hoax” anymore, but the president made clear he still doubts whether humans are driving the phenomenon and thinks the whole thing could reverse itself.

    Andrew Dessler, a climate scientist at Texas A&M University, said it’s unclear what Trump meant in asserting the climate can “go back.”

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-15/trump-says-climate-change-no-hoax-but-will-change-back-again

    Wait. What?

    Unclear?

    Top 10 Solutions to Reverse Climate Change

    https://www.greenamerica.org/climate-change-100-reasons-hope/top-10-solutions-reverse-climate-change

    A Plan to Reverse the Climate Crisis

    https://www.greenamerica.org/climate-change-100-reasons-hope/plan-reverse-climate-crisis

    What It Would Really Take to Reverse Climate Change

    https://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/renewables/what-it-would-really-take-to-reverse-climate-change

    50

    • #
      pat

      Mark M -

      the video is pure propaganda too.

      VIDEO: 1min38sec: What the U.S. Departure Means for the Paris Agreement

      and this is a classic from Mann:

      Although Trump told “60 Minutes” that “something’s changing,” he later added: “You don’t know whether or not that would have happened with or without man. You don’t know.”

      Michael E. Mann, a scientist at Pennsylvania State University, calls that “one of the standard ‘stages of denial”’ on climate.
      “The first stage is ‘it’s not happening,’ The second stage of denial, where Trump is currently located, is ‘it’s not human-caused,”’ Mann said. “In reality, there is an overwhelming scientific consensus that the warming we have seen over the past century can only be explained by human-caused climate change and in particular the burning of fossil fuels, something that Trump’s key supporters and funders profit from directly.”…

      SORRY, MICHAEL MANN, AS TRUMP SAID, YOU DON’T KNOW.

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      • #
        TdeF

        “an overwhelming scientific consensus that the warming we have seen over the past century can only be explained by human-caused climate change and in particular the burning of fossil fuels”

        Warming is caused by Climate Change (which is caused by Carbon Dioxide) which is caused by the burning of fossil fuels?

        That’s a very silly statement, illogical and where it is not, just wrong.

        Firstly, Mr Mann, how does human caused Climate Change cause warming?

        Secondly, the increase in CO2 can only be explained by the burning of fossil fuels? Really? What about the sea warming and releasing more CO2? Isn’t that pretty obvious, given that 98% of all CO2 is dissolved in the vast oceans?

        Lastly, when was science decided by consensus? Or it that Mann’s first principle of climate science?
        If enough of your friends agree with you, you must be right?

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        • #
          David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

          But TdeF,
          Don’tcha know that Henry’s Law is a law of Chemistry, and so doesn’t apply to Mannphysics?
          Cheers,
          Dave B

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          • #
            TdeF

            It’s also the beer law. Hot beer goes flat. Warmists would have you believe it absorbs CO2 from the atmosphere and gets fizzier the hotter it gets.

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      • #
        RickWill

        “In reality, there is an overwhelming scientific consensus that the warming we have seen over the past century can only be explained by data tampering human-caused climate change and in particular the burning of fossil fuels, something that Trump’s key supporters and funders profit from directly.”…

        Corrected.

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        • #
          TdeF

          Agreed. However I also believe that Prof Weiss’ predictions are right and that warming has occurred.
          Also that in the 1980′s there was a relatively sudden switch in technologies from human read thermometers to thermistor driven electronics.

          This has been recorded as giving an uncompensated +0.5C difference, all on its own. It should not have done so, but the increase suited the weather industry in creating the sensationalism required, so no one said anything. Correction for calibration differences were not done. Worse such corrections as were required were the source of even more apparent change. Then the newly formed IPCC argued that +0.5C in ten years meant +5.0C in 100 years.

          30 years later this ‘runaway tipping point’ argument was obvious nonsense, but the question remained of how the +0.5C happened. We know how and history already shows, partly false intervention and partly lack of intervention through missing corrections.

          We should have had another +2.0C by now. Didn’t happen. Game over.

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          • #
            David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

            G’day again TdeF,
            I also found the Weiss work compelling and I think it was in the final graph of his presentation he showed that the two significant cycles had already maxed out, apparently simultaneously and recently, and now both are heading down.
            Cheers,
            Dave B

            90

            • #
              TdeF

              Yes, we are in for a steep fall in temperature. However I still believe that the basis for the IPCC scare, the 0.5C rise in just 10 years was fake, predictable and intentional.

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          • #
            RickWill

            Any warming really depends on where you look. The oceans contain the most heat and unreliable data indicate the top 2000m has warmed but within the measurement error band.

            If you look at historical data from long records in Australia then the late 19th century was as the 1990s and is has cooled since then. My scepticism of Global Warming grew somewhat from looking at the long record from Broken Hill where I lived for a few years:
            http://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/ncc/cdio/weatherData/av?p_display_type=dataGraph&p_stn_num=047007&p_nccObsCode=36&p_month=13

            There is no doubt the population centres have warmed but look at how much energy is consumed in small areas. I believe these locations have undue weighting on the fiddled (termed “homogenised”) data.

            However look at Antarctica:
            http://www.bom.gov.au/jsp/ncc/cdio/weatherData/av?p_display_type=dataGraph&p_stn_num=300001&p_nccObsCode=36&p_month=13
            Does not look like it is warming there.

            From reading reliable sources mainland USA was warmer in the 1930s than the 1990s.

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          • #
            tom0mason

            Of course the other BIG thing that happen over the Northern Hemisphere was the cleaning of the atmosphere.
            Just remember that up to about 1970 most industrialized areas in the NH did not properly regulate emissions from homes, factories and power plants. After about 1983 all of the industrialized area of the NH had some form of ‘Clean Air’ law up and running (including the laggardly USSR!).

            It could be argued that the Clean Air laws gave us more sunshine to enjoy while eliminating the dual blights of industrial smog and acid rain.

            During the 1980s through the 1990s, and up to the present day, these air pollution statutes have become more rigorous and better enforced. Down went the figures for sulfur emissions and particulates, up went the atmospheric clarity. The upshot is the NH sky has cleared of industrial pollution, so during the solar peak of the late 1990s and early 2000s the suns effects were more impactful than during (recent) prior decades.

            30

      • #
        robert rosicka

        There may well be a consensus but they lack proof .

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  • #
    el gordo

    ‘Andrew Wilkie, Adam Bandt rule out any guarantee to provide confidence and ­supply if the government loses the Wentworth by-election.’ Oz

    No supply points to an early election.

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    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Its a tantrum….

      Its funny when you observe grown people acting like spolied brats….

      Maybe they want a second Brexit referendum as well…..?

      80

      • #
        Greebo

        Its a tantrum….

        Of course it is. Wilke and Bandt have nothing else. Lookatme lookatme. Di Natale and SHY will be the next cabs off the rank.

        90

    • #
      Peter C

      Hopefully the first ones to loose their seat at the next election will be Andrew Wilkie and Adam Bandt.

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    • #
      Phillthegeek

      No supply points to an early election.

      Nope. Normal date would be aroundish Budget time 2019 anyway. They would have to lose a no-confidence motion on something else, and there are indies in the HoR who want this parliament to go on as long as poss so they can build profile. Particularly after the 20th as Phelps is shaping up to win Wentworth.

      Scomo’s backers will want their hands on the levers of power as long as possible and an election and that access as they know they are heading for a spanking.

      That said who the fwark knows?? Who would have predicted the nature of THIS weeks screw ups and its only Wednesday??

      ScoMo may recon doG listens to his prayers….but i reckon she’s havin a lend of the bugger for her own amusement. :)

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    • #
      Phillthegeek

      Reply held up in “moderation” by the local chapter of the Defenders of the Faith eg. See if the shorter version deemed acceptable. :)

      No supply points to an early election.

      Nope. Normal date would be aroundish Budget time 2019 anyway. They would have to lose a no-confidence motion on something else, and there are indies in the HoR who want this parliament to go on as long as poss so they can build profile. Particularly after the 20th as Phelps is shaping up to win Wentworth.

      40

      • #
        el gordo

        Thanks Phil.

        20

      • #
        el gordo

        I found the offensive word, starts with S and ends with G.

        00

        • #
          philthegeek

          I found the offensive word, starts with S and ends with G.

          Spanking??

          10

        • #
          philthegeek

          Nope eg, tested and it got through. Really, making spanking a naughty would be a bit “Carry On” esque wouldn’t it?? :)

          10

          • #
            el gordo

            Its a minefield, by the way did you spot the global cooling signal or are you only interested in political science?

            00

            • #
              Phillthegeek

              On your little weather chart snapshot? No. :) I keep away from the cool futures type scams.

              Pol science is more relevant than the “ice age cometh” hysteria. Where Policy implementation gets informed by the Science…or not as the case may be.

              10

              • #
                el gordo

                That is a pity, watching climate change is the greatest show on earth.

                Anyway, the collapse of the subtropical ridge has allowed low pressure to snake down from Darwin to Antartica.

                10

  • #
    Hanrahan

    How useful are polls now?

    More than 20 years ago “we” used to doubt polls saying “Well they never ring me”. Now it is the opposite. I am constantly polled because I am part of the vanishing breed who still have a landline. Not only are there so few of us I’d guess we tend to fit a narrow demographic. There wouldn’t be many 20-30 somethings with landlines today.

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    • #
      RickWill

      We have a land line but never answer an unknown humber. If there is no sensible message left then there is no reply to the call.

      I expect I am amongst a majority who does not answer the phone unless it is a known caller. Maybe the polls should be renamed The Hanrahan Poll.

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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        I have ex-directory numbers, by design, as I prefer some privacy.

        50

        • #
          robert rosicka

          Since I ditched the landline I have had zero calls from Solar ,marketers,charity’s,gas,electric,surveys of any kind , I miss them sort of .

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  • #
    Peter C

    Delingpole in top form!

    Is there a single person, anywhere in Britain, outside the government, the Civil Service, the renewables industry, Greenpeace, academe, or the BBC who actually believes this utter nonsense?

    People in Britain don’t want their lovely countryside carpeted with more bat-chomping, bird-slicing eco crucifixes; they don’t want Drax burning woodchips imported from the U.S.; they don’t want more expensive electricity; they don’t want toffs being subsidised to plonk vast solar arrays in the field where they used to enjoy walking the dog; they don’t want hectoring loons like the BBC resident climate activist Roger Harrabin burbling on about bollocks IPCC reports which they know are just made up drivel; they resent subsidising rich, virtue-signalling twonks to recharge their Teslas for free; they want real jobs not the Potemkin jobs in fake green industries which only exist because of taxpayer subsidy.

    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2018/10/16/green-gb-week-will-not-deliver-brexit/

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    • #
      Greebo

      Delingpole from the “all white Breitbart”?

      51

      • #
        Hanrahan

        Delingpole from the “all white Breitbart”?

        What did he say that is wrong? It is your attitude that prompted Hansen to move a motion in the Senate saying that it is OK being white.

        “I am black and proud” said the black American.
        “I am brown and proud ” said the native American.
        “I am white and proud” said the racist.

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    • #
      TdeF

      Agreed. He has a great turn of phrase.

      The only bit I don’t like is the common slander of Grigory Potemkin, one of the heroes of Russia as detailed in Simon Sebag Montefiori’s excellent book, Prince of Princes. As in Potemkin Villages on Catherine’s on trip to the new Southern Port of Sebastopol.

      Potemkin’s rivals and Catherine’s son once in power tried to wipe Potemkin from the planet. Potemkin was the real military genius behind Catherine’s throne and rapid expansion and the building of the Black Sea fleet. This slander lives on, as does the one against Lucrecia Borgia that she was poisoner, a totally false story spread by her father’s rivals. Her father was the pope.

      Still as Shakespeare said in Julius Ceasar, ““The evil that men do lives after them; The good is oft interred with their bones.” This applies to slanders.

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      • #
        theRealUniverse

        Many years ago the BBC did a drama series on the Borgia reign of Italy in the 14-1500s, pretty wild stuff.

        50

        • #
          TdeF

          Yes, the Pope and his friends were murdering wholesale. His daughter was blamed. After all, that’s a pretty difficult position for a virgin Pope.

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      • #
        Peter C

        Potemkin!

        Thanks TdeF

        I admit that I did not know much about Potemkin. I heard that they named a Battleship after him.

        I am wiser already and I will read a bit more.

        50

        • #
          TdeF

          That was my introduction too. So I bought the book and read the story. Amazing man, changed the world. Really the effective Tsar of Russia. I even went to the Potemkin steps in Odessa, Ukraine, scene of the Eistenstein film “Battleship Potemkin” where the idea of multiple views from multiple cameras and editing originated as the pram bounced down the steps. Beautiful city. This one film so changed cinematography that was a must view film at all film festivals. I wanted to know more about the man who is really only remembered for a slander on his vast achievments. He created Ukraine from open steppes. He negotiated the Caucuses settlements and he lost his palace three times in card games. Catherine bought it back each time. He knew Catherine’s son Paul hated him, so he had his head buried in one place, his body another and his heart in Poland where he grew up. He also brought the potato to Russia, without which they would never have had Dutch vodka. Sure enough, Paul had him disinterred.

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  • #
    OriginalSteve

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-20/in-a-nation-of-cynics-we-are-flocking-to-the-fringe/10281522

    Love it…I was ( ahem ) a bit on the cynical side…but with good reason….

    50

    • #
      robert rosicka

      Did the test and surprise I’m more Cynical than the average person , to be less Cynical I guess I would have had to answer that all government is there to help so they all are good and I trust all politicians, but that’s not going to happen any time soon .
      Unless I had Trump for PM then he’d get 75% easy .

      61

      • #
        Annie

        Just did it…surprise…I’m much more cynical than average. Who’d a’ thunk it? ;)

        70

        • #
          Sambar

          Hey Annie, me to. The only questions that I was was less cynical about were
          1/Generally speaking most people can be trusted.
          2/People in my neighbourhood generally don’t get along with each other.
          3/ People in my neighbourhood don’t share the same values.
          I guess living in the low part of the high country has some advantages. I certainly do trust most of my local community, most of us get along just fine, and many, many people share my values.
          Now why is this? If I was doing a psychology thesis I could find bias in the facts that a/ I live rurally b/ I’m old. (baby boomer) c/ Small community means it’s difficult to do the wrong thing without being found out.
          I hope you got a few ml of rain over your way over the last 48 hours.
          Cheers

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          • #
            Annie

            Sambar, our situation bere is very similar to yours. We do have some greenie-types who think they can rule the roost and who really annoy me…I don’t trust them as far as I could throw them. There are lots and lots of good people around and I think highly of the vast majority of very hard-working farming, building, etc people around here. They work very hard and don’t have time to look into what’s going on and don’t deserve what’s coming if the greenie-lefties get their way.
            We’ve had 24.8mm of rain over the month, most the last day, except for 6.8mm earlier. It all helps but we could do with more.

            30

            • #
              OriginalSteve

              I like taking the hard-green greenies to task with facts and demolishing them if necessary.

              I have no mercy when dealing with the jackals who would literally enslave us and mess up our kids heads….

              More than once I’ve had a toe to toe with them ( and won ) and refuse to run from any fight.

              50

    • #
      yarpos

      I dont need know steeeeenking test! I am totally cycnical and have been labelled as such since I was about 18. It has served me well and helped me avoid many silly and shonky situations and people.

      20

  • #
    incoherent rambler

    Asking for some help.
    There was recent (last 12 months) publication which put mans contribution to CO2 levels at 3 to 3.5%
    Anyone have a link?

    50

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      Yes, natural origin CO2 from oceans and “life”, in all its forms, is about 94%.

      The change in atmospheric CO2 levels immediately over growing crops can be quite astounding over the 24 hour cycle.

      Likewise oceans absorb and express CO2 over the full day.

      The place is alive.

      KK

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      • #
        theRealUniverse

        KK, Did you see the numbers on the plant/forest worldwide absorption of CO2 over a day or anything? I never see it quoted in any of the arguments but it would be a significant factor.

        60

        • #
          Kinky Keith

          Not recently but I did read about CO2 levels being monitored during some sort of crop growth and was very impressed with the variation through the full day.

          We humans have a more rapid breathing cycle than plants.

          With every breath we take in air at 400 ppm CO2 and when we breathe out it’s 40,000 ppm.

          We are gifted with a lot of spare capacity to remove waste CO2 from our bodies and should be O.K. for a few more of the IPCCCCCs “doublings” before we have any trouble.

          KK

          70

        • #
          beowulf

          Have you looked in CO2 Science? They have a lot of articles on CO2 and plants.
          http://www.co2science.org/articles/V20/apr/a17.php

          The NIPCC also used to have many articles on the same subject but they don’t seem to be there any more. I downloaded a heap about 5 years ago, mainly agronomic stuff rather than forestry.

          80

  • #
    Sceptical Sam

    Barnaby Joyce tipped to take back Deputy PM’s job.

    Barnaby Joyce is being touted as a cut-through replacement for the ineffective Michael McCormack as leader of the Australian National Party. The Nationals need to do something or else they’ll be Scott Morrison’s doormat. Some say, under McCormack, they’re already covered in Liberal’s boot-scrapings.

    Now, should Barnaby make his comeback, it would be a good thing. He has what it takes to look after the interests of those people who support sensible energy policy in Australia.

    He’s now loudly backing coal and debunking Snowy 2.0. Good on him.

    The costing for Snowy 2.0 has already blown out to $6.5 billion even before any feasibility study has seen the light of day – not to mention a cost/benefit analysis. You can expect that $6.5 billion to blow out to at least $10.0 billion before the project even starts and $13.0 billion within one month of the start of the boring of the first tunnel.

    It’s a government project. They always blow out. Look at the diesel-powered submarines. Look at the National Broadband Network debacle. Look at the National Disability Insurance Scheme.

    And, the Labor Party’s union comrades will have a field day forcing up labour costs and ensuring that completion dates blow out as well. The industrial sabotage will make the NBN look like a Sunday school picnic.

    I wrote to Barnaby about the inefficiency of solar farms before his marital peccadillo became public (when he was still Deputy Prime Minister). He must have had his mind on other things because the response I received was pathetic; “it was Josh Frydenberg’s responsibility”. However, since then, he’s let us know where he stands on renewables; not least on Snowy hydro. And coal.

    He now holds that Snowy 2.0 pumped-hydro should be shelved or scrapped in favour of new coal-fired power stations. “I would prioritise coal-fired power stations” he’s said, and the Snowy 2.0 funding should go towards that end, according to “The Australian” last Monday (teaser on front page and main article on page 4).

    If Barnaby replaces McCormack, the Nationals will give the Morrison Liberals a big ginger-up on energy policy, including the Paris farce. Not before time either.

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    • #
      Greebo

      Barnaby needs to do a lot more before I will be convinced. He was good when teamed with Abbott, but rapidly became a Turnbull acolyte, and thus a terrible disappointment, and a little difficult to trust. However, he has to be better than McCormack.

      120

      • #
        Dennis

        It is necessary to consider how cabinet operates, much like a company board of directors, but ministers taking responsibility for government departments overseeing heads of those departments, the employed government watched by the elected government.

        Barnaby Joyce as Deputy Prime Minister and leader of the usually junior Coalition partner must display cabinet unity, at least in public. Inside cabinet he would speak his mind however, since at least 2009 when Tony Abbott was drafted into the leadership the Turnbull Black Hand faction have been the majority in every cabinet.

        80

        • #
          Greebo

          Of course all that is true. It merely points out what sort of Cabinet Turnbull ran, when the only MP speaking his/her mind was a certain back bencher.

          However, there are few reasons to excuse Barnaby, and least of all is Cabinet unity.. He was the Leader of his party, and had large amounts of power to use on Turnbull if he had chosen to. Any serious threat to the Coalition would have had Turnbull under the blankets with his thumb in his mouth. Junior partners are still supposed to be listened to, lest the partnership is dissolved. The Nats could have voted against any bill except Confidence and Supply. Stupid bills would be lost but the Government would stand. Well, that’s my take on it. I remember Gillard sitting with Brown, a “coalition” which gave us the Carbon Tax she promised never to impose.

          That said, I believe I would welcome Barnaby back as DPM. I reckon the last 2 years or so might have taught him something. Firstly, beware of sharks wearing R.M.Williams boots and Akubras.

          130

    • #
      Hanrahan

      I’m a Trump fan but personally he is a slug. If the yanks can accept that we should be able to accept the less than perfect Barnaby who, I might add, I also think is good politician.

      111

      • #
        Greebo

        Me too. You don’t need to like someone to accept they are good at being leaders. Think Baroness Thatcher, or Ronald Reagan. Or, of course, Tony Abbott, although I reckon I’d like him if I met him.

        91

      • #
        robert rosicka

        I judge Trump by his actions and pre election promises and so far not the usual disappointment.

        80

        • #
          Greebo

          And that is the point, as I’m sure you know. What you see might be ugly, but at least what you get is honest. It’s a hard concept to convey.

          Well, apart from here.

          60

    • #
      Phillthegeek

      You seriously think it would be to the coalitions electoral advantage to have the Beetrooter back as DPM??

      Please…advance immediately to the highest levels of the Coalition Strategic Planning Group. The country needs you there. :)

      32

      • #
        Greebo

        Perhaps you should ask Johnny Depp. He liked to use ad homs against Barnaby, and you have chosen one of his favourites here. Well done. Did you have something against the man that you’d choose to share?

        However, you asked a question. Yes, I do think Barnaby would be an asset. He always was when he had a decent leader. Tell me why you believe he wasn’t.

        Without the personal stuff, please. It isn’t funny.

        40

        • #
          Phillthegeek

          Yes, I do think Barnaby would be an asset.

          You too have a bright future at the highest levels of coalition planning. :)

          Contempt for Barnyard in the community is largely based on his abysmal performance as a minister. Really stupid decisions (decentralisation) , and the corruption of the Murray Darling basin plan. The boy is going to be in serious manure if we finally get a Federal ICAC and he in un-protected by an incumbent govt. The way he treated his wife and daughters because he wanted to get a leg over with a staffer was pretty poor and speaks volumes about his character.

          And he is deep embedded with Gina which also says nuthin good about him.

          Tick Tock Beetrooter.

          15

          • #
            el gordo

            ‘Really stupid decisions (decentralisation) , and the corruption of the Murray Darling basin plan.’

            Excuse me comrade, decentralisation is a key part of our platform and the MDB was covered in this green slime which needs to be eradicated.

            So I want Barnaby to return as leader of the Party and deputy in the Coalition.

            40

            • #
              Phillthegeek

              So I want Barnaby to return as leader of the Party and deputy in the Coalition.

              Good to see the best strategists of the LNP are sooooooooooo well represented here eg. :)

              Now, have to get to the shops to stock up on popcorn. Have the rest of the day and Friday to watch the Coalition eat itself….again, and to see what further self harm and stuff ups they can cram into an already busy week. Then, for Sunday, the Fun Fallout from Wentworth to look forward too. No end of possibilities once the Libs have no reason to “play nicely” with each other. :)

              I think the Coalition are coming to the realisation that the polls are settling, post Malcolm, into the TPP 53/47 =/- 1 point which in an Australian context is humungo landslide territory. Interesting leyonhjelm is fleeing the Senate for State politics?? Wonder what writing on the wall he is reading?? :)

              The more out there brand of so called “Conservative” politics here could well be in for a hard landing come the next election. They will have no influence in the HoR, that’s pretty clear already. Senate numbers are more interesting and that Obiwan, is their only slim hope. :)

              Stick a fork in em mate, they are done. Just need to scrape off the burnt crunchy bits before serving. :)

              00

              • #
                el gordo

                Wentworth is an anomaly, brainwashed millennials to a great extent, changing demographics.

                My script is completely different, sitting in the PMs bottom draw is a plan for a continental bullet train network, along with proposals from those countries who have an interest.

                This is their decentralisation strategy to ease congestion in the capital cities. Malcolm dithered because a VFT system and satellite cities require coal fired power stations to operate effectively, but Morrison is a different man.

                10

            • #

              it was how he handled it and what his version entailed. Maybe phil was critiquing all decentralisation but I didn’t read it that way

              11

          • #
            el gordo

            Phil the important thing to take out of this … is that Rupert Murdoch is behind it.

            ‘Sky News understands some Nationals MPs are considering forming a delegation to urge their party Leader to stand aside as support for Michael McCormack dramatically falls. Sources close to Mr McCormack are expecting a move on the leadership to take place next week.

            ‘Agriculture Minister David Littleproud has ruled himself out of a bid for the role, clearing the way for a possible return of former leader Barnaby Joyce. Mr Joyce says he is open to returning to the job but is denying he has made any calls to colleagues for their votes.’

            Oz

            10

            • #
              philthegeek

              Yup, i was referring to Barnyards particular incompetence and blatant pork barrelling vested interest as regards “decentralisation.

              Phil the important thing to take out of this … is that Rupert Murdoch is behind it.

              Yup, looks like even the forces Mordor have decided to get in on the funny side of the Coalitions conniptions. :)

              With the Coalition going down, the Nats have no relevance since when the ALP forms Govt in the HoR it does soon its own. And even when the coalition are in Govt the Nats just bend over for the Libs anyway. Really, they are a corrupt and useless little blot on the body politic. :)

              As they say, Some country folk are smart…. and some vote National.

              10

              • #
                robert rosicka

                You wouldn’t all be getting fooled by fake news would you ?
                Follow the story back where it started and listen carefully to the interview , which was between (not sure of the name) national party senator and would it have been an ABC ” Journalist ” ?.

                A question was asked ,an answer was given , and then poetic license given to the reporting = fake news .

                I’ve heard the interview on radio that started it all and what was reported didn’t match what was said .

                40

              • #
                el gordo

                Good sleuthing Robert, so Sky beat it up?

                20

              • #
                el gordo

                ‘…blatant pork barrelling vested interest as regards “decentralisation.’

                You mean his involvement with Gina and opening up the north?

                The Nats need a strong leader before the election, to hold our seats against the independents. The old loyalties have broken down as the demographics change and all this in the midst of a communications revolution and mass immigration.

                Barnaby is a force within the ginger group, we need him back at the helm.

                40

              • #
                philthegeek

                The Nats need a strong leader before the election,

                Why, they are an irrelevant minor party after the election?? In fact, they are only really relevant now as an amusing side bar to the last acts of the Morrison Muppet Show. Talk of bringing back Barnyard means they are approaching the tossing Cream Pie’s stage of the evenings slapstick. :)

                Better they dont burn any one they have with any talent at the moment, and save them for rebuilding when they are partners in opposition.

                14

              • #
                robert rosicka

                Sky are still beating it up not sure why , they tend to reveal this crap for what it is .

                20

              • #
                el gordo

                Balance of Power

                ‘Kerryn Phelps has left open the prospect of voting against the government in a motion of no confidence if she wins Malcolm Turnbull’s old seat.’ Oz

                Phil everyone agrees that Michael is a nice bloke, but he is only a seat warmer until Barnaby returns. He is the only one who can save us if there is a general rout and we have to desert the Coalition after the 2019 election.

                Our platform is straight forward, decentralisation, bullet trains, dams and satellite cities, and we reject any suggestion that we are only an amusing side bar.

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      Graeme#4

      I see that Prof. Tor Hundloe, “The Green Viking” and fisheries expert, challenged Barnaby’s views on Snowy 2, saying that Snowy 2 was a good idea. I’m not sure how a fisheries expert thinks that he knows all about energy. Sounds lsimilar to our resident expert on ancient kangaroos advising the govt on climate issues.

      90

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Ah but what about his ‘kiwi passport eligibility’ or what ever it was. I find the AU constitution rather silly making NZ and to an extent UK passport holders treated like foreign agents. Remember the ANZAC spirit.

      20

  • #
    Hanrahan

    World wide productivity has just spiked, youtube has gone off line, and it isn’t just you. :)

    90

    • #
      Greebo

      Hmm. The website Downforeveryoneorjustme reports YouTube is up, but I can’t get it. My internet is currently at 15 Mbps.

      40

    • #
      Greebo

      They’re probably doing a FaceBook and deleting accounts from those of us that lean to the right.

      60

  • #
  • #
    Another Ian

    “Study: Another failure of climate models – they can’t handle barometric pressure change”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/10/16/study-another-failure-of-climate-models-they-cant-handle-barometric-pressure-change/

    50

  • #
    MudCrab

    Earlier this week I was forced to spend time in the customer’s waiting area while my car suffered under the airbag safety recall. There I had the misfortune of having to sit next to a tv tuned to morning television, something I have managed to completely ignore most of my life by either being at work or sleeping in.

    Sweet mercy! Do people actually tune in to this drivel?

    Lowlights included much excitement because Alex Baldwin had done another Trump impersonation and a zombie walk somewhere in Chile. The zombie walk (cause only Chile has zombie walks apparently. This one was in it’s 10th year and inspired by 8 year old TV show ‘The Walking Dead’. Work that one out) was cut back to multiple times, while Alex’s skit was hyped for about an hour. They then showed about 10 seconds before cutting back to the studio where everyone was laughing uncontrollably.

    The show then managed to top (? Bottom?) this with a report that NSW schools were bringing in a new maths programme for their high school kiddlings. It was referred to as something like ‘lifestyle’ maths and apparently filled with more practical applications of maths more suited to the growing teen. Like how to calculate your download limit and double check your dole payments I guess.

    Cutting back to the studio our brave hosts – now joined with special reporters – chimed in how useful this was as ‘no body really needed to know about trigonometry’. The special reporter then told us how she did a maths subject very similar when she was in high school that was structured towards day to day applications, but still struggled with it and much preferred being allowed to go back to the more arts based subjects in which she excelled.

    Yeah.

    Arts based.

    Ever wondered why you are a second string reporter on daytime tv instead of being highly placed and paid in a STEM role?

    Weep for the future.

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    • #
      MudCrab

      also, fun fact about Alex Baldwin.

      His sons seem to be named after ninja turtles.

      80

    • #
      Hanrahan

      So, this “lifestyle” math will include working out how much CC interest of 20% calculated monthly on both the outstanding balance and new purchases costs over a year and how “24 months interest free on balance transfers” works then? No? Thought not.

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    • #
      beowulf

      A few years ago I had a kid doing data entry for me 1 day a week. He was in year 11 & 12 at the time; quite bright, but indulged by his dad. For his HSC he only did 2 subjects: sport physiology and cooking (with some fancy name). No maths, no science, no English. Like most of his generation, spelling wasn’t his strong suite either. For work experience he went to a golf course and mucked about juggling golf balls for a week.

      I needed him to do some weighted averages for me one day — he looked at me like I was talking Chinese when I mentioned a weighted average. I had done them since I was 12; he was 18 and still had no idea. After 13 years of schooling he could kick a ball, cook, add up and spell a bit . . . and I’m not too sure about his cooking either come to think of it.

      90

    • #
      robert rosicka

      Mudcrab get yourself a Samsung note 3 , you can use it to change any TV or aircon and can be great fun at the Doctors while you wait .

      60

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Yeah scary stuff. Ive noted that the average mental age of ( especially social media ) is about 15/16.

      News papers have just become gossip mags and no serious journalism.

      Part of the problem is that our Marxist-dominated “education” system is turning out under-educated people. People arent any more or less stupid than they ever was, they are now just educated only up to the point of being useful, but not a threat to the marxists….usually with messy mass indoctrination about all things left wing, but nothing really useful.

      Smartphones have only accelerated the problem – some people shouldn’t have a voice, as they are mental road kill.

      10

    • #
      yarpos

      “no body really needed to know about trigonometry”

      perfectly true if you are just a drone consumer in the modern world, never build anything and want or need to understand anything from first principles. One the other hand if you are a useful and constructive human being a basic knowledge of trigonometry (and many other things) can be useful to pull out of your back pocket from time to time.

      20

  • #
    Hanrahan

    China: Feeling the effects of the trade war.

    Brom Breitbart -

    China’s economy is showing signs of cracking under the pressure of the country’s trade war with the United States.
    Home sales during China’s Golden Week–traditionally a time for big ticket purchases–fell drastically.

    “Preliminary data showed residential property sales in 10 major cities during the week nearly halved, slumping 49% from a year earlier, according to Bocom International,” the Wall Street Journal reported.

    Golden Week is a weeklong holiday that begins on China’s October 1 National Day.

    The Journal also reports that car sales fell for a third straight month in September, putting China on track for the first yearly decline in auto sales in nearly 30 years.

    Meanwhile, the cost of living is soaring in China.

    Meanwhile the US is doin’ OK although I believe the bears who say there is a systemic collapse coming, and there is little Trump can do about it.

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    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Breitbart is very anti China, hate to say but that quote is pretty much BS. The Trade war will not hurt China. Vise-versa.

      21

      • #
        Hanrahan

        Breitbart has every right to be anti China, they are a far bigger threat to the free world than Russia. Australia must grow a pair and state our independence.

        That said B is far from being alone thinking China needs America more than vice versa. But I don’t read the Guardian.

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      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        Now that’s what you can call a contestable assertion @ theRealUniverse. Bald as a badger.

        Here’s the USA’s Department of Labour’s job stats for August 2018:

        “The number of job openings reached a series high of 7.1 million on the last business day of August, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. Over the month, hires and separations were little
        changed at 5.8 million and 5.7 million, respectively. Within separations, the quits rate was unchanged at 2.4 percent and the layoffs and discharges rate was little changed at 1.2 percent. This release includes estimates of the number and rate of job openings, hires, and separations for the nonfarm sector by industry and by four geographic regions.

        Job Openings

        On the last business day of August, the job openings level reached a series high of 7.1 million. The job
        openings rate was 4.6 percent. The number of job openings was little changed for total nonfarm, total
        private, and government. Job openings increased in federal government (+15,000). The number of job
        openings was little changed in all four regions. (See table 1.)

        Hires

        The number of hires in August reached a series high of 5.8 million. The hires rate was 3.9 percent. The number of hires was little changed for total nonfarm, total private, and government. Hires were little changed in all industries and in all four regions. (See table 2.)”

        The serious problem the Chinese face is that they operate a command economy with a “capitalist” influence. That is the worst of the lot. The “capitalist” edge sucks the easy money and the subsidies along with the benefits that flow from IPO theft, exchange rate manipulation and heavy-handed protectionism (both tariff and non-tariff barriers), and then, when things get too tough, they pack up and go somewhere else. (See Hayco brushes as the latest Australian example).

        Trump – love him or hate him – is giving the Chinese a lesson in competition – something that is alien to a communist dictatorship.

        Just as the USA broke the economy of the USSR, the Chinese are on the path to the same outcome.

        Too many people under-estimate the massive power of the USA economy when it is unleashed. Trump is unleashing it though deregulation, regulatory reform, low tax, tariff equalisation and radical energy policy reform. Hold on to your hats China, you’re in for a rough ride to ruin.

        Confucius say: Chinaman standing on Shanghai bund with mouth open waiting for communist apparatchik to stuff Peking duck in, will be very disappointed.

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        • #
          Greebo

          Confucius say: Chinaman standing on Shanghai bund with mouth open waiting for communist apparatchik to stuff Peking duck in, will be very disappointed.

          60

        • #
          RickWill

          The SNAP program in the US has dropped from almost 50M soles to 40M in 6 years. It is falling precipitously under Trump:
          http://www.speedtest.net/result/7723612682
          Down from 44M when he took office to 40M now.

          Economic activity occurs on a global basis. It is highly intertwined across national borders. What Trump is demonstrating is that the US can be a very attractive place to do business. It is a simple mindset in terms of government, whether their primary objective is to hinder and bleed existing businesses by picking winners and funding uneconomic activity or making it easy to do business by removing road blocks then allowing the market place to sort out the winners and runners up.

          Global manufacturers are again being attracted to the US:
          https://www.industryweek.com/leadership/america-s-new-factory-building-frenzy
          It is now a business friendly country.

          Consider Victoria with its known gas reserves but they are off limits by government decree and gas suppliers are setting up import facilities – crazy.

          I expect Trump will have a global influence as governments again learn to appreciate effort and industry rather than pandering to nonsense like Global Warming.

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        • #
          OriginalSteve

          The real risk to the USA IMHO is that currently China and Russia have all but offloaded their American debt and setting up to replace the USD with the Yuan for oil sales. If that happens, and Saudia Arabia tanks ( which it could with its recent Kashoggi conflagration and belligerent & defiant response ) along with it being belted for a six in Yemen, then the USD will sink like a stone. The Americans offered quid pro quo protection as long as the Saudis made sure oil was always sold in USD.

          The Saudi kingdom now seems destined for destruction, and will be broken up, IMHO, with Iran regionally running the show. The BRICS nations also seem sick of being bullied by the USA, so if they go it alone with their own oil exchange AND dumping the USA-dominated banking SWIFT system ( the really USA killer ) , America will all but cease to exist.

          Watch Syria – the Russians have S300 missles that have basically shut down all airspace over the mid east, and apparently S700 missiles that have global reach and can kill ICBMs anywhere at launch.

          Think about that…..

          30

          • #
            Kinky Keith

            Interesting.

            While I like the USA and its general direction there are some aspects which you point to which aren’t perfect.
            My own losses experienced in the “crash” of around 2008 still grate where my opinion of US financial integrity is concerned. Many other Australians no doubt feel the same.

            When you look around the world at all the friction, anger, conflict and bizarre Globalism I am amazed that we are not deep into World War 111.

            Civilisation has a long way to go.

            KK

            30

            • #
              OriginalSteve

              Yep. I don’t want the USA to go under.

              Sadly, there is the military-industrial complex that is a really a rogue element within the USA that runs the USA like a sock puppet.

              The people in the USA are nice decent people, there are jackals within the military-industrial complex who are plain evil and will trash a whole country and create mass slaughter to make a buck…..

              There are people the same the world over in all countries, who will destroy millions of people to make money. The only winners out of WW2 were the bankers.

              30

          • #
            Sceptical Sam

            Not so fast OS:

            They’re not deploying the S-700 as far as I can ascertain. It’s the S-300 that they’re getting.

            And yes, the S-300 system is more advanced than the interception system the Syrians had in the past. Previously they managed to shoot down the Russian Il-20 spy plane instead of any of the three IAF’s F-16s that were operating in the zone. That cock-up is, in part, the reason behind this upgrade. And yes, the S-300 can intercept aircraft as well as ballistic missiles but it still has limitations especially in terms of range.

            The S-300 is not infallible. How? Well, you may not be aware that the S-300 system the Russians are deploying for the Syrians is well known to NATO. Greece and Cyprus already have that system deployed. (Think about that). Accordingly, there should be no doubt that both the USA and the Israelis have already developed the counter-measure to it.

            As for the S-700, the Ruskies are likely to keep that very close to their chests – they know how good the Israelis are at innovating counter-solutions to new technology, as is your American industrial-military complex.

            20

    • #
      pat

      16 Oct: WSJ: U.S. Is World’s Most Competitive Economy for First Time in a Decade
      Country regains top spot in World Economic Forum rankings thanks to strong economic growth; report says room for improvement on social issues
      by Joanna Sugden
      America climbed one place in the rankings of 140 countries, with the top five rounded out by Singapore, Germany, Switzerland and Japan. All five countries’ scores rose from 2017, with the U.S. notching the second-biggest gain after Japan’s…
      https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-is-worlds-most-competitive-economy-for-first-time-in-a-decade-1539727213

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  • #
    pat

    16 Oct: ClimateChangeNews: Political deadlock has put $1bn in green projects on hold
    Green Climate Fund board meets in Bahrain three months after a contentious meeting failed to approve any money for projects in developing countries
    By Megan Darby
    David Margonsztern, proponent of a green transport plan (LINK) for Karachi, told Climate Home News something had to change.
    “We definitely hope that the situation from the last board meeting won’t repeat itself again because that would be a disaster, not only for this project but for all projects that are being proposed,” he said.
    His project, overseen by the Asian Development Bank, would bring a fast bio-fuelled bus service, bicycle lanes and green spaces to a congested 30km corridor in Pakistan’s biggest city…

    If all the project bids are approved, it will take the value of funds committed to $4.6 billion. That may trigger a fundraising drive, depending on how the numbers are interpreted.
    GCF policy is to formally start the replenishment process once 60% of initial contributions have been allocated. Norwegian board member Hans Olav Ibrekk tweeted that there had been “informal” discussions on the subject Tuesday, “but governance needs to improve”…

    Under a proposal presented to the board, a replenishment facilitator could be appointed to lay the groundwork ahead of a pledging conference in the third quarter of 2019. That would potentially coincide with UN chief Antonio Guterres’ planned climate summit in New York…

    The World Resources Institute (WRI) argues there should be a framework to set minimum national contributions…
    Based on historic emissions and national wealth per capita, WRI suggests the US should be contributing 46% of the target sum – hardly likely as long as Trump is in the White House.
    Adding to the political headwinds, Australia’s new prime minister Scott Morrison said last week he will not “tip money into that big climate fund”…

    Climate leaders including the UN’s Patricia Espinosa, European Climate Foundation chief Laurence Tubiana and Green Growth Institute director Frank Rijsberman have stressed the importance of putting the GCF back on track…
    The Climate Markets & Investment Association, a coalition of private sector observers to the GCF, emphasised its importance to mobilising wider green finance…
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/10/16/political-deadlock-put-1bn-green-projects-hold/

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  • #
    pat

    this should harden Trump’s resolve!

    16 Oct: Bloomberg: Former UN Chief Raps Trump for Idling on Global Warming Preparation
    By Christopher Flavelle; With assistance by Jess Shankleman, and Mathew Carr
    Former United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon is leading a new campaign to prepare the world for climate change, blaming U.S. President Donald Trump for setting back previous efforts amid increasingly dire warnings about the pace of global warming.

    Ban, along with Microsoft Corp. co-founder Bill Gates and World Bank Chief Executive Kristalina Georgieva, are scheduled to announce on Tuesday formation of the Global Commission on Climate Adaptation. Sponsored by 17 countries including Germany, the U.K. and Canada, the commission will recommend steps for reducing the harm from rising temperatures, as well as the scientific and economic arguments for why countries should take those steps.

    “We are far behind schedule,” Ban said in a phone interview from South Korea last week. “We will try to again mobilize international political will.”…

    The group’s efforts to prepare for those changes will be led by 28 commissioners, including senior officials from the UN, the Netherlands, the Philippines, China and the Marshall Islands, as well as the chief executives of ***Macquarie Group Ltd. and Koninklijke DSM NV. The commission will focus on climate-resilient agriculture and infrastructure, urban resilience to extreme weather and finding new ways to finance adaptation work, among other areas…

    Ban said the move follows setbacks at the UN’s chief vehicle for pushing global adaptation, called the Green Climate Fund…
    Giving money to the fund was supposed to be one of the ways wealthy countries would honor their commitment to provide $100 billion annually by 2020 for adaptation and other projects.
    Yet the fund has struggled since Trump vowed to slash funding for the initiative last year, saying he would not honor former President Barack Obama’s pledge to provide $3 billion. Its board hasn’t approved any new projects since March; the executive director resigned in July, and has yet to be replaced…

    Ban said in the interview that governance issues are impacting the fund’s mission.
    “But more importantly, more seriously, we are far behind schedule to mobilize this Green Climate Fund $100 billion by 2020, and thereafter every year at $100 billion, because the United States is now stepping back,” he said.
    Trump’s harm to the climate agenda went beyond the fund, Ban said. “Since the beginning of President Trump’s administration, since my retirement from the United Nations, I am feeling very much concern,” he said. Trump’s announcement that the U.S. wouldn’t fulfill its obligations has done “serious political damage on all international multilateral systems, including particularly climate actions.”

    Ban predicted that the U.S. would eventually rejoin the world’s efforts to prepare for climate change.
    “The problem is that President Trump, he doesn’t listen to anybody’s call,” Ban said. “The U.S. will definitely have to come back. And I think they will come back. If not during President Trump’s time, then whoever becomes his successor.”
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-16/former-un-chief-raps-trump-for-idling-global-warming-preparation

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      The question is “will they still be spending money to curtail Global Warming 2 or 3 years after it becomes obvious Global Cooling is happening, or will they continue spending?”

      70

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        No theyll just spend more money (mostly yours and mine from ‘taxes’ on CO2). Until they find out (which probably never happen) that they need to control a type G star of mass about 10^31 kg, output 10^36 W.

        20

  • #
    Another Ian

    On a previous thread David M had a question about some advertised gas breakthrough and I passed it to a boss driller.

    His reply ” I watched as much as I could stand. I guess every industry has it’s snake oil salesmen. “

    60

  • #
    pat

    $2bn held back by Trump leaves gaping hole in $100bn per year!

    16 Oct: Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists: How to bridge the Trump gap in climate finance
    By Perry World House
    (This column was written by Erin R. Graham, an assistant professor of politics at Drexel University and a Global Order Visiting Scholar at Perry World House)
    But Trump’s Paris withdrawal creates another problem too: A massive gap between the money needed to address climate change and available funds..
    Former US President Barack Obama pledged an initial $3 billion to one of the funds that distributes climate finance—money to help reduce emissions and adapt to climate impacts—but delivered only $1 billion before he left office, and Trump decided not to contribute any. Funding cuts supported by the Trump administration and the Republican majority in Congress have now produced a gaping hole in available resources…

    The end result is that the US withdrawal has had a two-pronged effect on global mitigation: It weakens not only the US effort to reduce carbon emissions, but also efforts in developing countries that rely on climate finance…

    Though wealthy states have tended to see climate finance as a voluntary commitment akin to development aid, it is hardly charity. Even if for no other reason, the United States should fund mitigation in developing countries from a purely self-interested perspective. Since climate change is global, the benefits of mitigation anywhere accrue to people everywhere. And if countries with rapidly developing economies can avoid mass dependence on fossil fuels, the benefit in avoided emissions will be enormous…

    Given the stakes, it is worth asking: Can cities, states, and companies pick up some of the slack on climate finance, just as they are trying to do with mitigation efforts? Thanks to the way climate finance has been structured, the answer is “yes.” Climate finance is delivered to governments through international institutions like the Global Environment Facility, the Green Climate Fund, the Adaptation Fund, and a number of trust funds hosted by the World Bank, the United Nations, and other international organizations. These institutions were designed to allow non-state actors to contribute. This includes just about any entity one can think of—subnational governments like cities and states, individuals, corporations, and philanthropic organizations…
    https://thebulletin.org/2018/10/how-to-bridge-the-trump-gap-in-climate-finance/

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  • #
    pat

    15 Oct: ClimateChangeNews: Bavarian vote shakes Berlin coalition, threatens climate limbo
    Comment: The demolition of Angela Merkel’s coalition partners in the south further weakens the chancellor, undermining hope for tough calls on climate policy
    By Julian Wettengel for Clean Energy Wire
    While a direct impact on climate and energy policy is unlikely given looming elections in the next key state of Hesse in two weeks, the state of the coalition raises doubts about whether it can muster the strength to drive major policy projects such as an exit from coal fired power generation…

    In any case, analysts and opposition politicians do not see the recent standstill in energy and climate policy on the national level vanishing any time soon. Anton Hofreiter, head of the Green Group in federal parliament (Bundestag) said the results in Bavaria made him worry about Angela Merkel’s cabinet’s ability to govern…READ ON
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/10/15/bavarian-vote-shakes-berlin-coalition-threatens-climate-limbo/

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  • #
    el gordo

    Melissa Price has put her foot in it with her cheque book humour, she is clearly out of her depth and should be replaced.

    50

    • #
      robert rosicka

      I don’t know about that after all saying to the leader of Kiribati that he was only here for more cash is more than likely right .

      133

      • #
        el gordo

        We can’t have cabinet ministers acting like practicing satirists, where would government end up.

        60

      • #
        Greebo

        Yes, but did Melissa actually mean it, or was it a lucky catch? Want my guess?

        30

        • #
          el gordo

          She meant it as humour.

          Satire: ‘the use of humour, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people’s stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues.’ wiki

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  • #
    OriginalSteve

    And in the blue corner……bet everyone ducked for cover….

    https://www.canberratimes.com.au/politics/federal/for-the-pacific-it-s-always-about-cash-environment-minister-in-diplomatic-incident-over-climate-change-20181017-p50a6b.html

    “Ms Price asked Mr Tong why he was in Canberra and was told by Senator Dodson that the former Kiribati leader was in Australia to talk about climate change and was hoping to have a meeting with her.

    “Is it about the cash?” Ms Price replied, according to the witness.

    “It’s always about the cash. I’ve got my chequebook over there. How much do you want?”

    A spokesman for Ms Price denied this account and said the minister told Mr Tong that Australia cared very deeply about the Pacific, before suggesting they set up a meeting at some point.”

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  • #
    Another Ian

    “Oh, wait! So when the wind does not blow, we don’t generate electricity; and when it does blow so we are making lots of it, the power will be shut off to prevent fires. So when will we get electricity?…”

    First E.M. comment in

    “Because Trimming Trees Is So Hard”

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2018/10/15/because-trimming-trees-is-so-hard/#comments

    As we usually slavishly follow what USA does likely coming to somewhere here soon.

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  • #
    pat

    16 Oct: Science Daily: Forest carbon stocks have been overestimated for 50 years
    A formula used to calculate basic wood density has recently been corrected…
    Researchers estimate that the error in the initial formula resulted in an overestimation of forest carbon stocks, to the tune of almost 5 percent…

    It may be a small correction, but it is far from negligible as far as forest ecologists and carbon cycle specialists are concerned. The error lay in a formula established almost 50 years ago (in 1971) for calculating basic wood density. Given that basic density is used to assess the amount of carbon stored in a tree, the fact that the formula had to be corrected meant that forest carbon stocks may have been overestimated by 4 to 5%. “This new formula should enable us to determine more accurately the role of forests in the carbon cycle and the impact of deforestation on climate change” , says Ghislain Vieilledent, an ecologist with CIRAD who was the corresponding author of the work published in the journal American Journal of Botany on 16 October…

    “To start with, I thought we had made a mistake in our calculations or that there was some uncertainty surrounding measurement of the relevant data. It was not easy to cast doubt on a formula that had been widely accepted for years and quoted in several scientific articles.”…
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/10/181016110100.htm

    17 Oct: Taipei Times: Taiwan Solar to cut 20% of workforce this quarter
    RELOCATE:The firm said it would move affected employees to its module factory in Pingtung County or help them secure other jobs, and help foreign workers return home
    By Lisa Wang; Additional reporting by CNA
    Solar cell manufacturer Taiwan Solar Energy Corp yesterday said it plans to slash 20 percent of its workforce to streamline production as it is struggling to ride through an industry slump.
    Based on the company’s headcount of 1,375 as of April, about 275 employees would be laid off.
    An overcapacity-driven downturn worsened in June after China significantly reduced solar subsidies, curtailing solar panel installations by 30 percent, the company said earlier this year…

    Losses in the first half of the year widened to NT$517.89 million (US$16.75 million) from NT$441.67 million in the same period last year, while revenue plunged 40 percent year-on-year to NT$2.96 billion in the first nine months from NT$4.94 billion a year earlier, the company said…

    Taiwan Solar Energy is the latest in a slew of local solar firms seeking to survive the industry downturn by cutting jobs.
    Last month, solar cell maker Motech Industries Inc terminated more than 300 foreign labor contracts and 60 local jobs. Later that month, solar wafer supplier Green Energy Co also announced a 19 percent headcount reduction…
    http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/biz/archives/2018/10/17/2003702503

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    • #
      Bill Burrows

      Pat – Carbon stocks quoted for the world’s woody communities are ball park figures at best. They may be useful for carbon accountants wanting to know the broad contribution to various pools, but these estimates essentially ignore many elephants in the global room. For example, around 50% of organic carbon in woodlands and forests can be located below ground. But there are very few error bars provided for such estimates. In fact it is common to see flux figures given which are well below the sampling error (if per chance it has been calculated). Not to worry, under respective government carbon farming or direct action initiatives we will disburse a couple of billion dollars of taxpayer funds for carbon allegedly stored, with or without error estimates. [At least the beneficiaries are located in Australia!].
      For what it is worth most estimates of carbon content in Australian woody vegetation, per se, are based on dry weight estimates – usually determined via allometric regressions. So whether one is evaluating eucalypts (hardwoods) or, say, cypress pine wood density is not a factor here. It is then standard procedure to multiply the dry weight estimate for the particular tissue by its % carbon content – which may vary over a range of 45-55%. Or if you are in a hurry the funders will simply accept 50%. After all everyone is in the same game aren’t they?
      Incidentally I first got involved in determining allometric regressions in mulga woodlands in the late 1960’s with my esteemed colleague known to readers here as ‘Another Ian’. This expanded considerably in the 1990’s when my group contracted to the Australian Greenhouse Office to provide such regressions for woodlands in NE Australia. This allowed Jo’s David to develop a more robust FullCam model of our carbon stocks.

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      • #
        Bulldust

        Yes, “carbon farming” is now a thing:

        https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-18/carbon-farming-burning-recognised-industry-aboriginal-rangers/10388210

        We used to call them arsonists… now they are carbon farmers. All sarcasm aside though, yes … being recognised as reducing emissions by actually causing them. You could try to make stuff up, but people would just say you are crazy.

        Here’s a novel idea … rather than burning woody materials, how about growing useful carbon sinks (trees) and building durable goods out of them (furniture, houses etc) and then rinse and repeat. No need to burn the wood simply releasing the CO2 back into the C-cycle. Nah, clearly my idea is crazy as …

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  • #
    pat

    comment in moderaton re: 16 Oct: Science Daily: Forest carbon stocks have been overestimated for 50 years

    btw Jo – your 2GB interview with Luke Grant was terrific.

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    Peter C

    Drought Stricken Dubbo Pours Torrential Rain on the Royal Couple!

    Prince Harry and pregnant Meghan visit Dubbo and it rains heavily.
    https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/harry-and-meghan-bring-downpour-to-drought-hit-dubbo/ar-BBOuEFy?ocid=spartanntp

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    Crakar24

    Climate change has been running rampant of late in Adelaide of late so much so tonight I had to fire up the wood heater to ward off its effects.

    In other news the liberal government has decided to sell our $610 million white elephants however the labour government (original owners) claimed the white elephants will be used by a private company to maximise profits and drive up prices. As opposed to the turbine, solar and battery owners who are simply generating a small amount of coin this cover the costs associated with saving the planet.

    Will this sh$%&#t ever end?

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    Graeme#4

    The 105kW “local” battery installation in Mandurah WA has gone into operation, supplying 52 (another report said 62) homes in the evening with additional power, up to 8 kW, in the evening. These homes supply extra power to the battery from their solar systems during the day. The system cost $200,000 to instal and the residents are charged $1 a day. They claim 420kWh for the system.
    But I can’t see this system ever repaying the investment, which I presume comes out of taxpayers pockets.

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      Graeme#4

      Forgot the calculations. 52 homes paying $365/year is only $18,980/year. Even not allowing for maintenance, servicing etc., this would be 10.5 years to pay off the installation, and if we add the extras, the battery will probably run out of life before its paid off. Also I’m not sure how only 52 homes can supply 420kWh every day to the battery while supplying power to their homes, excluding the usual 20% charge/discharge losses. Something doesn’t add up.

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        Chad

        Hmm ?
        Well the 420kWh charge is not a problem, just 8 kWh from each of the 52 customers during the day…should be less than 25% of the output from a typical 5kW rooftop solar set up on each property leaving 75% for their own daytime use.
        But,..if they expect to use that for peak evening and night time demand, they will only have about 6.5 kWh each ( 8 kWh minus losses). available for the hours of darkness !
        Obviously they will still need to be grid tied,…..but they will be contributing next to nothing to the costs of grid services , maintenance , etc….shifting more of those costs to their neighbours !
        Of course the above assumes 100% sunshine performance !

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    Crakar24

    Once they put solar panels on the roof of churches you will know its game over and agw will be the new religion for the church city lol

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    robert rosicka

    Internet very slow so just checked ,

    Download a blistering 1.7

    Upload a mind bending 2.8

    Ahhhhh the joys of modern first world broadband .

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    pat

    just switched from the cricket to Sky for a second and am sure Rowan Dean just said Jo is going to appear on the program shortly. just letting anyone who has Foxtel know.

    17 Oct: CarbonPulse: Industry group asks Australia to make quick decision on foreign offsets
    To ward off a potential offset shortage, Australia should speed up in deciding whether emitters can use foreign carbon credits to help meet domestic targets, an influential industry group has said…

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    pat

    lengthy. more on the connections between the players trying to stop Donald Trump becoming President; can also be seen as part of an insurance policy to set up the “Russia collusion” narrative in case he did win:

    AUDIOS: 21min45sec & 22min37sec: 17 Oct: Breitbart: Aaron Klein: EXCLUSIVE – Trump Tower Collusion Conspiracy Implodes During Interview with Key Witness
    The already collapsed Trump Tower collusion conspiracy continued to further implode during an exclusive interview with Rob Goldstone, the English publicist who sent Donald Trump Jr. the infamous email claiming Russian dirt on Hillary Clinton that led to the June 9, 2016 meeting…

    Another Russian attendee, a translator, testified that he was previously an interpreter for Hillary herself as well as for John Kerry and Barack Obama…
    Questions are also raised by a timeline showing numerous personal meetings between Fusion GPS co-founder Glenn Simpson and Trump Tower participants. A Clinton associate, Ed Lieberman, was listed as being present at one and possibly two of those meetings…
    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/10/15/exclusive-trump-tower-collusion-conspiracy-implodes-during-interview-with-key-witness/

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    robert rosicka

    Jo and her husband are on sky news insiders program now

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    pat

    Jo and David were wonderful on Sky’s “Outsiders”. will check for the video tomorrow.

    behind paywall, so excerpting from elsewhere:

    After Nobel in Economics, William Nordhaus Talks About Who’s Getting His Pollution-Tax Ideas Right
    New York Times-13 Oct. 2018
    William D. Nordhaus, the Yale economist who shared the Nobel…

    Carbon Brief: After Nobel in Economics, William Nordhaus Talks About Who’s Getting His Pollution-Tax Ideas Right
    In an interview with the New York Times, Nobel-winning climate economist William Nordhaus says: “If we start moving very swiftly in the next 20 years, we might be able to avoid 2C, but if we don’t do that, we’re in for to changes in the Earth’s system that we can’t begin to understand in depth…We’ve been going backward for the last two years. Maybe we can stop going backward and start going forward.” Nordhaus also discusses current global experience with carbon pricing, which he advocates. He argues in favour of framing a carbon price “not as a tax, but as a financial windfall for taxpayers”, writes interviewer Coral Davenport. Nordhaus says the EU’s carbon market has a “flawed design” because it relies on accurately projecting emissions. “If those projections are wrong, the system fails,” he says.

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    TdeF

    You have to laugh. The Huffington Post now has a “Native Issues” fellow who has declared Elizabeth Warren should not “claim Native American Identity”. You cannot just call her a liar.

    You see belonging is such a big deal “Native American identity is about belonging to a community.”.
    “It is also racial. Not in the biological sense, but in a more ephemeral cultural and social understanding of that word”

    It is not ‘racism’. God forbid. No Social Justice Warrior would say such a thing.
    She is simply not a member of the Cherokee community, as determined by her genes.

    I thought it was the white man who spoke with forked tongue?

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      Lionell Griffith

      It is worse than speaking with forked tongue. In this postmodern age, to know truth is to feel it. By that action alone, it becomes true for you even though it is not true for any other being on earth.

      I suggest that in her mind, she IS a Cherokee, she believes it, that settles it for all times; all places, and all peoples. It is reality is irrelevant and correspondence with what is has no applicability to her thinking. She is mentally lost in a universe not of her making that is beyond her control or even understanding. She relies on what her significant other’s have said and expects you to rely on what she says for the same reason. The bottom line is that her thinking has not risen above that of an out of control spoiled child in the midst of a temper tantrum. If she doesn’t get her way, she will scream even louder and call you nasty names. You, as a loving parent, are to give into her whims BECAUSE they are HER whims and especially because you fear the magic of the nasty names.

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        TdeF

        Read what you wrote and think Christine Blasey Ford? Al Gore? Michael Mann? Facts become secondary, even irrelevant, even presented with the absolute truth that you are wrong and therefore have always been wrong. Evidence is irrelevant. Or is that simply retrospective justification of what they have always known to be wrong?

        On one side there is truth. For Elizabeth Warren, the other side is a tenured professorship of Commercial Law at Harvard Law School. After all, what’s wrong with a little exaggeration?

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        RicDre

        “In this postmodern age, to know truth is to feel it.”

        Ayn Rand saw this coming; from Atlas Shrugged published in 1957:

        “Senor D’Anconia,” declared the woman with earrings, “I don’t agree with you!”

        “If you can refute a single sentence I uttered, I shall hear it gratefully.”

        “Oh, I can’t answer you. I don’t have any answers, my mind doesn’t work that way, but I don’t feel that you are right, so I know that you are wrong.”

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    Another Ian

    “And Then They Came For The Beer…”

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2018/10/17/and-then-they-came-for-the-beer/

    Been mentioned previously but I didn’t see this bit

    “The Climate Criers are wetting their pants about Barley and Beer now.

    Note this is from 2009. The point being the current “news” of barley and beer is a recycle of one they ran 9 years ago. “

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    Another Ian

    “The Sound Of Settled Science”

    “A prominent cardiologist formerly at Harvard Medical School and Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston fabricated or falsified data in 31 published studies that should be retracted, officials at the institutions have concluded.”

    More at

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2018/10/17/the-sound-of-settled-science-26/

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    RickWill

    Did anyone see the end of “Madam Secretary” on Wednesday night in Australia. It was pukeworthy:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gchcAmDToTk
    I could not watch it because it was so pointed and clumsy. Guest appearances from Hillary, Colin and Madeleine, trying to support globalism while being patriotic – a difficult fence to sit on and clearly anti-Trump.

    When I was regularly flying I had the impression that people in the US were sheep just being herded about – low confidence level. No one dare try some light humour on airport security. By contrast people in NZ resisted authority. The airport security staff would be smiles and joking. I expect that these days there is a bit of a shift.

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    pat

    17 Oct: Guardian: Bahrain applies to Green Climate Fund to help clean up waste from fossil fuels
    Oil-rich kingdom says money is needed to protect against water scarcity but request sparks strong criticism and fears over the fitness of the public fund
    by Fiona Harvey
    Bahrain – one of the world’s most oil-rich nations – has applied to the international Green Climate Fund for $9.8m for its National Oil and Gas Authority, raising questions over whether taxpayer-funded assistance for poor countries is reaching its intended targets.

    The kingdom has requested the funding to clean up wastewater from the oil and gas industry, which it says is necessary to protect against water scarcity in future – a problem that is likely to grow worse around the world as a consequence of climate change…

    However, Bahrain’s proposal has come in for heavy criticism, and experts are concerned that it will encourage other oil-rich nations to come forward with proposals that will benefit their fossil fuel industries under the guise of adapting to the impacts of climate change. They are worried that there are too few safeguards to GCF funding.

    However, Bahrain’s proposal has come in for heavy criticism, and experts are concerned that it will encourage other oil-rich nations to come forward with proposals that will benefit their fossil fuel industries under the guise of adapting to the impacts of climate change. They are worried that there are too few safeguards to GCF funding.
    Channelling money from the GCF to a fossil fuel company would be “perverse”, added Mohamed Adow, international climate lead at the charity Christian Aid. “Surely the oil companies should be cleaning up their own polluted water?”

    The GCF board, which is to consider a raft of proposals from various countries, will be asked to approve the application as soon as Thursday morning. Whether it does so will be a key test of the fitness of the fund and its governance, according to observers.
    Adow said: “This funding would not only undermine trust in the GCF, it would also set a bad precedent for other proposals involving fossil fuel companies looking to leech off the fund’s resources.”

    Wael Hamidan, executive director of Climate Action Network International, said: “The notion of leveraging public money targeted at climate action to support fossil fuel companies is absurd and misguided at best. The only justifiable reason for assisting fossil fuel companies should be to transition fully into 100% renewables as a matter of urgency – and even that could be funded through these companies’ enormous profits.”

    A GCF spokesman told the Guardian: “This is one of 20 project proposals to be considered by the GCF board this week. The project will not finance any fossil fuel operations, but targets water shortage resulting from climate change. No project funds will be used for profit generating activities, and only lower income households and public buildings (mosques, schools) will be provided with water saving devices and greywater recycling systems. The proposal is brought to us by UN Environment, one of our project partners (Accredited Entities). It has been recommended for approval by our Technical Advisory Panel, subject to certain conditions.”…

    “Project proposals have to be approved by the GCF board, which makes decisions by consensus between its 24 members, equally representing developed and developing countries. All project proposals coming to the board are subject to assessment from our independent technical advisory panel,” said the spokesman…

    According to pledges made at Copenhagen in 2009 and renewed in Paris, at least $100bn is supposed to flow from rich to poor nations a year by 2020, in order to help the poor to cut emissions and cope with the impacts of climate change…
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/17/bahrain-applies-to-green-climate-fund-to-help-clean-up-waste-from-fossil-fuels

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    pat

    UNFCCC: UN Climate Speech, 17 Oct, 2018
    Patricia Espinosa: “Climate Finance is About Saving Lives”
    Ahead of the Green Climate Fund (GCF) meeting in Bahrain on Tuesday October 16, the Executive Secretary of UN Climate Change, Patricia Espinosa, stressed the importance of a successful outcome of the meeting and the impact it will have on the outcome of the UN Climate Change Conference COP24 next December in Katowice.

    In her address, Ms. Espinosa highlighted the critical role that the GCF plays in supporting the shift of developing countries to low-emission and climate-resilient pathways.
    “Success here means sending a clear and unmistakable message of trust to developing countries that they can have confidence in the process going forward,” she said…

    Given that climate change has the potential of massive destabilization throughout the world, Patricia Espinosa made a passionate plea not to only consider climate finance a technical issue, but also an issue with a deep human dimension:
    “When it comes to climate change, finance is about more than money. It’s about helping people impacted by climate change. It’s about reducing their suffering. And, in some cases, it’s about saving lives,” she said.

    Here are Patricia Espinosa’s full remarks:

    Thank you to the Kingdom of Bahrain for hosting this important board meeting of the Green Climate Fund.
    The GCF is close to my heart—I was the COP President when it was established at COP16 in Cancun…

    Never have we faced the urgency we do now. Never has the need for solutions been greater. Never has there been more need for multilateral cooperation. And never has finance played a more central role to the overall climate regime itself…

    At COP24 in December, Parties must achieve one clear goal: finalizing the Paris Agreement Work Program.
    This is more than a set of rules, it will unleash the power of the Agreement itself.
    The outcome of this session of the GCF will impact those negotiations in Katowice.
    Success here means sending a clear and unmistakable message of trust to developing countries that they can have confidence in the process going forward.
    Replenishing the GCF will allow it to continue playing a critical role in supporting developing countries shift to a low-emission and climate-resilient path…

    As of April 2018, only 26 projects out of the 76 approved have started implementation and $158 million has been disbursed.
    This represents only 13 per cent of total value of the projects under implementation and only 4 per cent of total GCF funding…

    Looking deeper, because climate change is connected to some of humanity’s biggest challenges, proper financing can also help tackle issues such as poverty, migration, equality and more—issues reflected in the Sustainable Development Goals…
    And let’s remember: when it comes to climate change, finance is about more than money…
    https://unfccc.int/news/patricia-espinosa-climate-finance-is-about-saving-lives

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    pat

    President Trump was interviewed by AP. later he tweeted:

    TWEET: Donald J. Trump: AP headline was very different from my quote and meaning in the story. They just can’t help themselves. FAKE NEWS!
    17 Oct 2018

    however, he could have pointed to more innacuracies, but it would have required numerous tweets.

    17 Oct: ConservativeTreehouse: sundance: AP Journalists: On the Record With President Donald J Trump…
    President Trump gave AP reporters Catherine Lucey, Jonathan Lemire and Zeke Miller an extensive interview session within the Oval Office on Tuesday October 16th. A transcript of that interview is below:

    (excerpt) AP: In your interview with ’60 Minutes’ over the weekend, you were asked about climate change, and you said you believe it, but that also, it could go back. And one of the things … (crosstalk)

    Trump: I said the worst hurricane was 50 years ago, far worse than what this one was. Then, in 1890, they had one that was even worse. This was No. 3 or 4 or 5. We had worse hurricanes in 1890, we had worse, a worse hurricane 50 years ago. We’ve gone through a period, actually, fairly recently, where we have very few. I live in Florida to a large extent and spend a lot of time in Florida, and we had a period of time where we went years without having any major problem. And then you have a problem and it goes in cycles…ETC

    AP: But scientists say this is nearing a point where this can’t be reversed.

    ***Trump: No, no. Some say that and some say differently. I mean, you have scientists on both sides of it. My uncle was a great professor at MIT for many years. Dr. John Trump. And I didn’t talk to him about this particular subject, but I have a natural instinct for science, and I will say that you have ***scientists on both sides of the picture.
    OK, what’s next?…
    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/10/17/ap-journalists-on-the-record-with-president-donald-j-trump/

    how AP reported it:

    17 Oct: AP: Trump tells AP he won’t accept blame if GOP loses House
    By CATHERINE LUCEY, JONATHAN LEMIRE and ZEKE MILLER; Associated Press writer Colleen Long contributed to this report
    Trump again cast doubt on climate change, suggesting, ***incorrectly, that the scientific community was ***evenly split on the existence of climate change and its causes. There are “scientists on both sides of the issue,” Trump said.
    https://apnews.com/8f4baf7aaddc442dad0a726f3ebe7fff

    Trump Tells AP He Won’t Accept Blame if GOP Loses House
    New York Times – 19h ago
    Trump again cast doubt on climate change, suggesting, incorrectly, that the scientific community was evenly split on the existence of climate change and its causes.

    Trump tells AP he won’t accept blame if GOP loses House
    ABC America – 17 Oct 2018
    Trump again cast doubt on climate change, suggesting, incorrectly, that the scientific community was evenly split on the existence of climate change and its causes.

    Trump says he won’t accept blame if GOP loses House
    PBS Newshour – 10h ago
    Trump again cast doubt on climate change, suggesting, incorrectly, that the scientific community was evenly split on the existence of climate…

    Trump tells AP he won’t accept blame if GOP loses House
    Atlanta Journal Constitution – 19h ago
    Trump again cast doubt on climate change, suggesting, incorrectly, that the scientific community was evenly split on the existence of climate…

    AND SO IT APPEARS IN HUNDREDS OF FAKENEWSMSM OUTLETS.

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    Rod Stuart

    Last week I attended a Tas Networks focus group session of sorts.
    It’s purpose was to discuss with the public Tas Network’s filing to the energy regulator regarding its budget.
    One thing in particular attracted my attention.
    One of the capital works is to upgrade the transmission system from the Northwest (Cape Grim) southward towards George Town.
    This upgrade is to provide a transmission capacity of 100 MW in anticipation of more windmills.
    Even though the effective capacity of this system will be only 30 or so MW due to the capacity factor for bird slicers, it must be large enough to transit 100 MW for the hour or so per year when the Goldilocks wind is just right; not too much, not too little, and not too gusty.
    This reveals some of the hidden costs of this nonsense when the rent seekers try to convince us of how cheap with is.
    Of course if the line were constructed for a fossil fuel or nuclear power station of 100 MW capacity it would do so 95% of the time.
    However in this case the net energy transmitted will be a small fraction of the capacity for which the asset is designed.
    This will not be news to most of the readers here, but it is a good example of the con of the Ruinables.

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    pat

    followup re Melissa Price/Anote Tong:

    17 Oct: ABC: Environment Minister Melissa Price accused of dinner-time slur against Pacific Island nations
    By political reporter Dan Conifer
    Multiple sources have told the ABC the newly installed Cabinet Minister said to Mr Tong: “I know why you’re here. It is for the cash…

    Federal Labor said the exchange was disrespectful and “beggars belief”.
    “This is an appalling contribution from Melissa Price,” Shadow Climate Change Minister Mark Butler said.
    Greens Senator Sarah Hanson-Young labelled Ms Price “the worst environment minister ever”.
    “She dismisses not just the science [of climate change and] she now dismisses the views and the very heartfelt advocacy of leaders in the region.”…
    In her first major interview in the role, she last week argued some of the world’s leading climate scientists were “drawing a long bow” in calling for an end to coal power in a bid to limit global warming.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-17/melissa-price-denies-insulting-former-kiribati-president/10387494

    Anote Tone suggests PM and Price are immoral – ABC has no problem with that:

    AUDIO: 10 Oct: ABC: Former Kiribati Prime Minister slams Australia for casting doubt on climate science
    By Linda Mottram on PM
    The former President of another at-risk Pacific state, Kiribati, has also slammed Australia, questioning the morality of putting power prices over the fate of millions in the Pacific.
    Speaking from Los Angeles, Anote Tong also took aim at Environment Minister Melissa Price, who yesterday cast doubt on climate science in response to the IPCC report.
    FROM TRANSCRIPT:
    We’ve got to have some trust in the information coming forward. I mean, the people that are involved in this have been at this for quite some time. I’ve definitely see no reason why they should be giving us false information.
    I think there is quite a degree of deafness to the scientific facts coming forward for whatever reason. And this is something that I fail to understand.
    But for countries like ours, even if the possibility is five per cent, we’ve got to do something about it.
    But of course, we understand that what happens to us thousands of miles away may not be relevant to the voters in Australia.
    If that is the basis of that decision, then where is the morality in that?
    LINDA MOTTRAM: The Australian Government also says it is going to meet its Paris committments, though experts disagree on that…

    LINDA MOTTRAM: And as a practical policy measure, given the coal timeline that the IPCC set out, what should Australia do?
    Because just this week, another coal mine has been given provisional approval in New South Wales.
    What should Australia do about coal mines? Should it shut them down immediately?

    ANOTE TONG: I think the first thing to do is not to open new coal mines.
    That would have given time to seek investment in other sources of energy.
    But that is not happening. I mean, you just said that in New South Wales, what has been on the verge of happening is now happening.
    What’s happening in different parts of the world is going ahead in spite of all the information coming forward from the scientific community.
    So we- I cannot understand, I fail to understand what nonsense… how we can go ahead and do these things which are in direct contradiction to the information and the knowledge coming forward…

    LINDA MOTTRAM: What’s your message to the Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison at this time, in light of these latest warnings about climate?…
    ANOTE TONG: I understand the political, the political necessities.
    But I think, for goodness sake, go ahead, worry about your next election.
    But I think don’t condemn those people and those countries for whom climate change is a serious issue, for whom climate change is an issue of survival…
    Any leader who has some sense of morality surely must take that into consideration.
    https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/pm/former-kiribati-pm-slams-australia-casting-doubt-climate-science/10361120

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      pat

      ***The October 13 experts’ event will focus on specific legal challenges…:

      1 Oct: Yale Macmillan Center: Climate Induced Migration and Displacement Conference
      A two-day conference focusing on climate induced migration and displacement will be hosted at the Whitney and Betty MacMillan Center for International and Area Studies at Yale on October 12-13. His Excellency Anote Tong, former President of Kiribati, will give the keynote lecture on “Migration with Dignity.” (visit website for details and program)(LINK)…

      “A recent World Bank report suggests that by 2050, 143 million persons will soon find themselves displaced by either slow moving weather events, such as rising ocean waters which will submerge entire islands, or dramatic weather events, such as Hurricane Maria,” said conference organizer Maya Prabhu, MD, LLB, Assistant Professor in the Division of Law and Psychiatry in the School of Medicine…

      The conference speakers and topics include:

      Rob Klee, Commissioner of Connecticut’s Department of Energy and Environmental Protection on state-led climate initiatives; Erica Bower, formerly of UNHCR, on “Unpacking myths around climate change and human mobility: Beyond ‘Climate Refugees”; Edward Gardiner, Ph.D., NOAA-Affiliate, on the “Climate Resilience Toolkit”; Michael Kruk, ERT, Inc. at NOAA’s National Centers for Environmental Information on “Climate Projections”; Robert Brammer, Ph.D., American Bar Association, on “Climate-Induced Displacements and Systems Thinking”; Ayman Cherkaoui, Executive Director of UN Global Compact Morocco and Former Special Advisor of the Presidency for COP22/23 on “Climate Migration and the Paris Accord;” Kanta Kumari Rigaud, World Bank on “Economic Development Planning for population displacement”; Benoit Mayer, Professor, The Chinese University of Hong Kong, on “Overview of the legal and policy architecture regarding climate-induced displacement”; Meredith Niess, MD, MPH, Fair Haven Community Health Care and Marietta Vasquez, MD, Director Yale Children’s Hispanic Clinic, on “Responding to the Puerto Rican Diaspora after Hurricane Maria”; Elizabeth Fussell, Brown University, on “Recovery and Resilience after Hurricane Katrina”; Christina Hioureas, Foley Hoag, on “The Legal Status of Submerged States”; and Mayesha Alam, Yale Department of Political Science, on “When Natural and Humanitarian Disasters Converge: A Case Study on the Rohingya Refugee Influx in Bangladesh.”

      ***The October 13 experts’ event will focus on specific legal challenges and scientific questions that will arise in the fall United Nations Climate Change Accord discussions relating to climate migration.

      The conference is sponsored by the Program on Refugees, Forced Displacement, and Humanitarian Responses at the MacMillan Center with generous support from the Edward J. and Dorothy Clarke Kempf Memorial Fund, the Law and Psychiatry Division of Yale School of Medicine, the Asian American Cultural Center and the Woodward Lectureship.
      https://macmillan.yale.edu/news/climate-induced-migration-and-displacement-conference

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        robert rosicka

        Migration with dignity- because of climate change ? Kiribati ? , if it wasn’t for the fact that another nation has an interest in the area I would be calling this out for what it is and that’s nothing more than a cash grab .
        A quick Floogle search on this island and why it has some problems reveals dredging the Coral for runways during the Second World War is the number one culprit.

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          theRealUniverse

          Of course the real truth is never told.
          Also there is NO sea level rise on any epic proportions going to happen.
          New LIA may produce some lowering if the ice levels increase substantially.
          Yep its a cash grab.

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    theRealUniverse

    But I think don’t condemn those people and those countries for whom climate change is a serious issue, for whom climate change is an issue of survival…
    Any leader who has some sense of morality surely must take that into consideration.

    Are these people in touch with reality? Do they know this is a scam? fake. Who are they?

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    pat

    10 Oct: Guardian: While my island nation sinks, Australia is doing nothing to solve climate change
    The inaction and recalcitrance of Australia’s federal politicians is making Kiribati despair
    by Anote Tong
    We believe Australia is failing in its duty as a regional leader.
    The implications of this for Australia’s foreign policy are immense, as the inroads made by Chinese diplomacy have shown.
    Australia must play a more constructive role. Ceasing to approve new coalmines would be a good place to start. It must also adopt obvious solutions such as renewable energy, which will help bring its emissions down to zero…
    In Australia, supporting these solutions will also create new, green jobs, and unlock billions of dollars in economic opportunities…

    ***Ultimately, as I head to Australia later this month for a series of public lectures and meetings, I hope to leave the Australian people and politicians with one simple message. The future of Kiribati, Australia and the region is in your hands. It’s time to act.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2018/oct/10/while-my-island-nation-sinks-australia-is-doing-nothing-to-solve-climate-change

    ***Eventbrite: Oct 22 2018: Views from the Climate Frontline: An Evening with Anote Tong
    by The Climate Reality Project (AL GORE)
    University of Melbourne
    This event is being jointly hosted by The Climate Reality Project, Oxfam Australia, Pacific Calling Partnership and Melbourne Sustainable Society Institute.
    Celia McMichael will serve as the event MC…
    Dr Celia McMichael is a Senior Lecturer in the School of Geography, The University of Melbourne…
    A central focus of her current research is environmental change and migration in the Pacific Islands region.
    https://www.eventbrite.com.au/e/views-from-the-climate-frontline-an-evening-with-anote-tong-tickets-49844562428

    AustralianReligiousResponseToClimateChange.org: His Excellency Anote Tong speaking at University of Sydney (24/10/18)
    Why island nations’ isolation on the climate change threat must end
    This Sydney Ideas event will explore the challenges faced by the people of Kiribati and other vulnerable Pacific Island nations and examine how climate change will exacerbate these issues. The questions that will be explored are: What impact will climate change have on Kiribati’s islands, identity, culture and heritage? How can co-operation between nations in the region be strengthened? What political and legislative actions can be taken in Australia to assist Pacific Island nations in climate change adaptation?

    Join us to hear from Anote Tong, former president of Kiribati, and one of the world’s most prominent advocates for global action on climate change for which he has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. Tong will discuss his climate change advocacy, the role of wealthy industrialised nations such as Australia in climate action and the need for global recognition of the threat that climate change represents for Kiribati and other vulnerable Pacific Island nations…
    Register for this free event here…
    WHEN: October 24, 2018 at 6pm – 7:30pm
    Chair: Professor David Schlosberg, Sydney Environment Institute (Uni of Sydney)
    https://www.arrcc.org.au/his_excellency_anote_tong_speaking_at_university_of_sydney

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      pat

      Wikipedia: Anote Tong also currently serves on the Board of Conservation International…

      Wikipedia: Conservation International: Board of Directors
      Peter Seligmann
      Chairman of the Board
      (Seligmann) is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and served on the Coca-Cola Company’s International Advisory Committee from 2011-2014. Peter was also named to the Enterprise for the America’s Board by President Clinton in 2000.
      Peter began his career in 1976 with The Nature Conservancy, …and later became the director of the California Nature Conservancy. He holds a Master of Science in Forestry and Environmental Science from Yale University and a Bachelor of Science in Wildlife Ecology from Rutgers University…

      Chairman of Executive Committee
      Wes Bush
      Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Northrop Grumman Corporation
      Falls Church, Virginia

      Vice Chair
      Harrison Ford, Actor

      Board Members (includes)
      Mark Ferguson, Founding Partner, Generation Investment Management (AL GORE/DAVID BLOOD)
      Hon. Alexander Karsner, Managing Partner, Emerson Collective; Sr. Strategist, Google X

      Emeritus (includes)
      Former President Anote Tong
      James D. Wolfensohn
      https://www.conservation.org/about/pages/board-of-directors.aspx

      Wikipedia: Conservation International is an American nonprofit environmental organization headquartered in Arlington, Virginia…
      The organization employs more than 1,000 people and works with more than 2,000 partners in 30 countries…
      CI has helped support 1,200 protected areas and interventions across 77 countries, safeguarding more than 601 million hectares of land, marine and coastal areas…
      As of FY 2016, CI’s revenue totaled $212 million…

      On July 1, 2017, Peter Seligmann stepped down as CEO of CI and a new executive team made up of senior CI leadership was announced. Conservation scientist M. Sanjayan was named chief executive officer; Jennifer Morris, formerly chief operating officer, was named president; and Sebastian Troeng, formerly senior vice president of the Americas Field Division, was named executive vice president. Peter Seligmann will remain Chairman of the Board…

      A few years after its founding, CI began working with McDonald’s to implement sustainable agriculture and conservation projects in Central America. The organization expanded its commitment to working with the business sector in 2000, when it created the Center for Environmental Leadership in Business with support from the Ford Motor Company…
      CI has been criticized for links to companies such as BP, Cargill, Chevron, Monsanto and Shell…
      A 2008 article in The Nation claimed that the organization had attracted $6 million for marine conservation in Papua New Guinea, but that the funds were used for “little more than plush offices and first class travel.”…
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_International

      12 Feb: UN Dispatch: PODCAST: Anote Tong is the former President of Kiribati, an island nation threatened by the rising seas
      By Mark Leon Goldberg
      This episode is presented in partnership with the Global Challenges Foundation…
      President Tong is a Global Challenges Foundation ambassador…

      Wikipedia: The Global Challenges Foundation is a Swedish non-profit organization that seeks to raise awareness of global catastrophic risk and the global governance necessary to handle these risks. This includes examining models for UN reform, as well as initiating new ideas for a functioning global governance…
      The foundation’s assets predominantly consist of a donation from László Szombatfalvy, which represented roughly half of his fortune at the time – around 500 million Swedish kronor (approx US$56 million)…
      Another risk-related project driven by the Global Challenges Foundation, along with Earth League, is Earth Statement. The climate call aims at reducing the gap between science and politics, and has formulated eight points on which the world’s decision-makers need to agree to achieve a successful climate agreement at COP21. Earth Statement has been signed by Al Gore, Desmond Tutu, Mo Ibrahim, Richard Branson, Arianna Huffington, Gro Harlem Brundtland, Yuan T. Lee and Mary Robinson…
      The Global Challenges Foundation conducts international risk surveys and publishes annual reports on global risks, interspersed with quarterly reports…

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    pat

    ABC still outraged. their latest:

    18 Oct: ABC: Melissa Price accused of misleading Parliament after denying she insulted Pacific leader
    By Pacific affairs reporter Stephen Dziedzic
    But Mr Tong’s dining companions insist it is accurate, leading Labor to demand an explanation from the Minister…

    This morning Mr Tong was keen to play down the episode, saying he didn’t want to distract from his efforts to lobby Australia on climate change.
    “I was a little further away from the Minister — I did not fully [hear it] as I do have a bit of a hearing problem,” he said.
    But he made it clear he did not doubt the version of events described by others at the table, including the President of the Refugee Council of Australia, Phil Glendenning.
    “What they have said would have been on the basis of what they heard,” Mr Tong said.
    “Certainly the account they shared with me was not different.”

    Mr Tong said Ms Price rang him yesterday to discuss what happened.
    The Minister did not apologise, but expressed her regrets.
    “She was so gracious as to ring me,” Mr Tong said.
    “I don’t recall the exact wording, but I think what she said was that if I have offended you in any way, that was not my intention.”

    The Federal Opposition has been heaping pressure on Ms Price over the episode, calling her conduct “appalling”.
    It also says the Minister misled Parliament when she told the Lower House that Senator Dodson’s description of events was wrong — and is demanding she return to correct the record.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-18/price-accused-of-misleading-parliament-over-kiribati-insults/10390418

    no problem with this, though:

    2 Jun 2017: ABC: Pacific leader likens Donald Trump to a ‘classroom bully’ after climate deal backdown
    Pacific Beat By Pacific affairs reporter Liam Fox
    He likened the withdrawal to the actions of a selfish bully.
    “It’s pretty selfish, I think there’s no other way to explain that,” Mr Tong said.
    “In any classroom, there’s always the bully, but hopefully there will always be somebody who will stand up against the bully.”
    “But in this case, the one with the greatest capacity to ensure justice is served is in fact becoming the bully,” he said.

    Mr Tong said Mr Trump’s justification that the agreement would undermine the US economy and sovereignty are particularly galling to small Pacific island nations, that are on the frontline of the impacts of climate change.
    “On a global issue like climate change, there are no national borders. I think a lot of people are missing the point, including Mr Trump,” Mr Tong said.
    “Climate change is not about the United States, it’s about this planet, it’s about our values as human beings.”…
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-02/trump-likened-to-a-classroom-bully-after-climate-deal-backdown/8584960

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    GrahamP

    I have a question about domestic roof top solar. Many claim that excess solar is fed back into the “grid”. This seems implausible to me because how can 12 DC, converted to 240 AC, feed into a grid with greater than 240 V. So in other words the excess roof top solar can’t get past the first 240 V transformer in the local area network.

    So is this another inconvenient fact or am I missing something. Graham

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      Analitik

      The output from the inverter is slightly above that of the line voltage (it monitors and adjusts to maintain outflow)

      The article below explains why this the limits total solar installations within any local transformer’s zone

      https://www.solarmarket.com.au/why-is-there-a-limit-to-how-much-solar-we-can-connect-to-the-grid/

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        GrahamP

        Thanks for the info and the link. Graham

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        Environment Skeptic

        Very good info in the link
        The info is interesting to me in that it talks about ‘three phase power balancing’ and had not considered or was aware of this before, among other equally detailed and clear explanations of other electrical solar PV (photovoltaic) aspects.
        Excellent.

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        Greebo

        Thanks for the link, Graham. The last pars is interesting:

        In conclusion, the earlier you get solar installed the more likely it is you are going to be able to connect a larger PV system. In some cases if PV is already prevalent in an area you may not be able to connect at all until network upgrades are made in that area (or you pay for them yourself).

        So, it’s I’m all right, Jack, which seems largely to be the attitude that prevails in the whole domestic PV industry.

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      robert rosicka

      Think of electrickery as water is what I was told , when I had the old analogue meter with spinning disk it would go backwards when pumping back into the grid but now there is an arrow which shows the direction the power is going .
      Either to grid or to house which can also be checked if you press the right button on the inverter .

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    Analitik

    One for the LGBT debate

    A Canadian transgender “female”, Rachel McKinnon won the women’s 35-39 sprint event at this year’s UCI Masters Track Cycling World Championships. Unsurprisingly, not all of “her” competitors were thrilled by this milestone

    https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/rachel-mckinnon-becomes-first-transgender-woman-win-track-world-title-397473

    Still, as one of my local ride group commented, “she” will already have lots of other rainbow attire to go with the championship jersey.

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      Another Graeme

      Why is it that 1024th American Native DNA makes an oppressed minority Cherokee but two XX chromosomes doesn’t make you female?

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        Analitik

        You have your analogy the wrong way around

        Two XX chromosomes do make you female but the definition of female is extended through the transgender arguments to allow for those with XY chromosomes to also be classified as female under appropriate (to the LGBT community) circumstances.

        Similarly, Elizabeth Warren is extending the definition for being an oppressed minority Cherokee to those with 1024th American Native DNA rather than simply having a majority of American Native DNA.

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    yarpos

    Bad hair.

    Why does nearly every academic that the media puts on to talk about climate or SJW topics look like they have been dragged through a barbed wire fence backwards?

    Is bad hair a badge of honour in academia?? Is it something like I am so bound up in my terribly intellectual pursuits, that I cant be bothered with personal presentation and hygiene?

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    pat

    behind paywall:

    $2 billion solar subsidies to send household bills through the roof
    The Australian-14 hours ago
    Energy consumers are set to pay nearly $2 billion for rooftop solar installation subsidies next year, hiking power costs by up to $190 for every household…

    18 Oct: RenewEconomy: Downer wins contract to build Australia’s biggest solar farm
    by Giles Parkinson
    Australian mining and civil contracting company Downer Group says it was won the construction contract for what will be Australia’s biggest solar farm – the 349MW (DC) – or 313MW AC – Limondale facility in southern NSW.

    The solar farm is owned by German energy giant Innogy – which holds the “future grid” assets such as renewables and storage of German’s RWE. Downer was awarded the contract by Innogy subsidiary Belectric Solar and Battery.
    “Once the Limondale Solar Farm is built, Downer will have constructed close to three gigawatts of renewable energy projects – making Downer a leader in the industry.” Trevor Cohen, the head of Downer’s Utilities business, said in a statement…
    Construction of the Limondale project is to begin this month and is expected to be complete in 2020…READ ON
    https://reneweconomy.com.au/downer-wins-contract-to-build-australias-biggest-solar-farm-88477/

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    el gordo

    On the Sydney/Melbourne run this beauty would put a dint in air travel.

    ‘A new Fuxing bullet train, measuring 440 meters long with a seating capacity of 1,283 passengers, is the longest high-speed train in China. With the top speed of 350km/h, the new bullet trains will be put into use next year.’

    China Daily

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    pat

    18 Oct: RenewEconomy: Network approval paves way for solar and storage at some of Australia’s biggest mines
    by Giles Parkinson
    Approval for a new transmission line in the Pilbara is expected to pave way for a large scale solar farm and a battery storage facility to help power some of the country’s biggest mining operations.
    Alinta Energy this week won approval from W.A.’s Economic Regulation Authority to extend the transmission line that currently connects the Newman gas generator and Newman battery to Gina Rinehardt’s Roy Hill iron ore mine, onwards to the Christmas Creek and Cloudbreak iron ore mines operated by Fortescue Metals.

    The addition of a 65km long 220kV transmission line will enable Alinta to install one, and possibly two 60MW solar farms near those Fortescue operations, as well as a new battery storage installation following the success of the Newman battery in boosting reliability and reducing the cost of fossil fuel generators.

    The two Fortescue mines are currently powered by diesel, and the construction of a solar farm at the scale contemplate by Alinta would signal one of the most exciting developments in the supply of electricity to the mining industry…READ ON
    https://reneweconomy.com.au/network-approval-paves-way-for-solar-and-storage-at-some-of-australias-biggest-mines-33908/

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    Another Ian

    “Malcolm Turnbull publicly lends his support to Kerryn Phelps campaign”

    http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2018/10/malcolm-turnbull-publicly-lends-his-support-to-kerryn-phelps-campaign.html

    “Eagle-eyed John Ruddick caught and screen captured Malcolm Turnbull “Liking” the publication.

    It’s true … Malcolm Turnbull has ‘liked’ this tweet. He has now joined his kids and put it on the record that he is anti the Liberal Party. Keep it up Mal … you’re giving us a great laugh. #auspol pic.twitter.com/nYOEaF3epz
    — John Ruddick (@JohnRuddick2) October 18, 2018

    In archetypal Turnbull backdoor fashion, he’s now unpublished his “Like” and slunk back under the rock from whence he slithered.”

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    el gordo

    Global Cooling Signal

    ‘Daily low temperature records are being smashed in the western half of the U.S. as states from Michigan to California experience wintry weather.

    ‘Meteorologist Ryan Maue tweeted Monday that “record low temperatures are covering the map with a major cold front blasting through the Rockies to the Mississippi River.”

    wuwt

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    Another Ian

    “US CO2 emissions fall under Trump, while the world increases #MAGA”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/10/17/us-co2-emissions-fall-under-trump-while-the-world-increases-maga/

    Think how much more and sooner the Paris-ites will have to spend to show that they can equal that

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    pat

    17 Oct: CBC: Company offers $1,000 reward after thieves steal solar panels from work site
    With files from Janice Grant and Cameron MacLean
    ‘I’ll be happy to write that cheque,’ says owner after theft of 116 panels worth $27,000
    The theft occurred sometime late Saturday night at OBR Oil and Marine, near Deacon’s Corner east of Winnipeg. The thieves cut open boxes and made off with $27,000 worth of solar panels, said Justin Phillips, CEO of Sycamore Energy…

    The panels are three feet by nine feet and weigh between 30 and 40 pounds each, so Phillips doesn’t believe the theft could have been accomplished quickly…
    “At first we were kind of shocked but then you realize that it is a construction site and so the common person driving by might not realize who’s involved in the construction,” he said.
    Insurance will cover the loss, but the theft will set the project back by a week or two, Phillips said…Phillips said a smaller company likely wouldn’t have been able to absorb the cost…

    The company notified Manitoba Hydro and the city of Winnipeg, and they know the serial number of the panels, so they likely cannot be hooked up to the grid without getting caught…
    Phillips says there is a good chance the panels will be shipped out of province or hooked up somewhere off the grid…
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/stolen-solar-panels-reward-1.4867724

    Solar panels worth Rs 40 lakh stolen from Delhi government hospital
    India Today-14 Oct. 2018

    Solar panels stolen from Chatham-Kent property
    CTV News-4 Oct. 2018

    Solar panels stolen off roof of New Brighton church
    KMSP-TV-3 Oct. 2018

    Man arrested for theft of $40K worth of solar panels from Volvo property
    ABC NEWS 4-19 Sep. 2018

    17 Oct: GreenMatters: A New Report Says Solar Energy Could Grow 6,500% By 2050
    By Koty Neelis
    The Energy Transition Outlook 2018 (LINK) report from DNV GL, a quality-assurance and risk-management company, predicts solar electricity production could grow 65-fold by 2050 thanks to factors like the industry low barriers to entry, solar energy systems becoming more common, and the rising costs of using traditional power grids. It’s not just consumers making the transition but businesses and local governments as well.

    According to the report by DNV GL, only 290 gigawatts (GW) of solar was installed at the end of 2016, and about 100 GW are now being built per year. By 2050, DNV GL expects 18,895 GW to be installed by 2050. If analysts are right, this would make solar one of the largest sources of energy in the world.

    Highlights of the report state the world will need less energy from the 2030s onwards owing to rapid energy efficiency gains and that the world’s energy system will eventually decarbonise with fossil fuels and clean energy sources split equally as primary energy sources…
    https://www.greenmatters.com/renewables/2018/10/17/smdH7/a-new-report-says-solar-energy-could-grow-6500-by-2050

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    Chad

    Average Global Temperature. ?
    A question for a mathamatician/statistian ..
    I understand the Global average temp is calculated from many temperature measurements around the world (ignor the likely “adjustments”)
    With a range of values likely to cover -30C to +50C ..or more ,…how valid is an average calculated to 0.01C ?
    Further….. How valid is it to compare that result to a similar calculation taken a year or more earlier using data from possibly not precisely the same data sources/locations ??

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    pat

    if govts would pay as much attention to reliable energy as they do to “unreliables”:

    17 Oct: Deccan Herald: Zero coal stock at RTPS, situation ‘critical’
    by Ashwini Y S, DH News Service, Bengaluru
    With the Raichur Thermal Power Station (RTPS) reeling under acute coal shortage, Chief Minister H D Kumaraswamy has sought the Centre to ensure adequate coal supply to Karnataka. The RTPS, with a capacity of 1,720 MW, presently has zero coal stock.
    In a letter to Coal Minister Piyush Goyal, Kumaraswamy has cited that the Western Coal Fields (WCF) – a subsidiary of Coal India Ltd (CIL) – has short supplied about 6 lakh MT of coal this year against the Fuel Supply Agreement (FSA) quantity…

    “Presently, there is only 2,924 MT of coal available in RTPS as against the requirement of 23,000 MT per day. It is in a critical situation. Yesterday (Tuesday) the chief secretary, too, wrote to the Centre to ramp up supplies from MCL. The WCF has n…
    https://www.deccanherald.com/state/hdk-asks-centre-step-rtps-hits-698435.html

    18 Oct: IndianExpress: Shortage of coal shuts 10,500 MW power plants amid rising demand
    Most of these plants are located in the states of Maharashtra, Andhra Pradesh, Haryana and Chhattisgarh, all far away from the coal mines, reflecting the inadequacy of the transportation infrastructure to ferry the fuel.
    A sudden rise in electricity demand in the wake of inadequate coal supply is precariously pushing power plants towards outages. According to government data, more than 10,500 MW of power plants have cited ‘coal shortage’ for shutting their units down. Out of this, 2,700 MW and 4,210 MW went under outage in September and October, respectively…

    Sources said that extraordinary rise in power demand in the last few days — which is otherwise a positive economic indicator — is proving to a bane to power plants in need of coal. There has been a whopping 12.6 per cent year-on-year (y-o-y) rise in power demand the first fifteen days of the third quarter of FY19. As on October 16, as many as 33 power plants, had fuel stock to last for less than seven days. At the end of September, 22 generating stations were running with such critical stock.
    However, domestic coal production by state-owned Coal India and Singareni Collieries Company — the two main state-owned coal miners — during April-September grew at 9.7 per cent annually to 285 MT.

    18 Oct: Financial Express India: ENS: Coal shortage hits power sector again; how India can get its production right
    By Anil swarup. Former secretary of the government of India.
    The power plants are running short on fuel in the country. No, this is not 2014. It is 2018. There is coal shortage. Yet again. There were as many as 26 power plants that are considered “critical” as of October 9, 2018, for want of adequate fuel…
    India sits on an estimated reserve of 300 billion tonnes of coal. Yet, the country was short of coal…READ ON
    https://www.financialexpress.com/opinion/coal-shortage-hits-power-sector-again-how-india-can-get-its-production-right/1352960/

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      yarpos

      I wonder how comfy companies that outsourced their operations to India are feeling right now? looking at you ANZ. I guess those places have their own generators , but the issues around supply logistics and quality of maintenance in India arent limited to coal.

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      Greebo

      Perhaps China has a spare “volcano train” or two.

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    toorightmate

    Query to those in the wind farm game:
    I think the general wind turbine these days is 3 MW nameplate and they have very high ratio gearboxes..
    What is it’s capacity efficiency when the propeller is rotating at 1 rpm?
    Reason for query is that on a recent trip around Europe, at any time, most were not rotating and 1 rpm seemed to be the average of those that were rotating. Greater than 5 rpm was rare.

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    • #
      Chad

      A modern wind turbine could well be a “DirectDrive”‘ unit with no gearbox.
      …but most existing units will be the traditional design with gearboxes.
      But any turbine “sail” rotating at only 1-5 rpm is most likely not generating at all, but rather consuming power in order to simply keep its heavy components rotating to prevent damage to its bearings which can occurr if it stops completely.

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        toorightmate

        Thanks Chad.
        The vast majority that I saw in Germany, Austria, Serbia and Croatia were stopped – really good for bearings.
        But I guess Angela knows all that stuff.

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    Crakar24

    I see roxby downs was only 1 degree warmer than woomera today the negative going half of the square wave modulating the adjustment must have kicked in

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    tom0mason

    On another blog (HERE)Rosco asks –
    Does the algebraic sum of two discrete radiation fluxes equate to the solution of the Stefan-Boltzmann equation for temperature?

    And supplies the math of it at https://www.dropbox.com/s/oi4jz1cxrfap7ro/Is%20any%20object%20heated%20by%20radiation%20from%20a%20colder%20object.docx?dl=0

    My take on it is if you get a temperature for an uncontained fluid and add some more heat to it does the temperature rise as algebraic sum of fluxes (or even temperatures).
    Or more simply –
    2°C + 3°C =/= 5°C ?
    Can temperature (when converted from the heat flux) add algebraically?
    IMO no.

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      Kinky Keith

      I am very wary of taking any notice of people who use the Stephan and Boltzman equation for climate change purposes.

      In practical terms it must be calibrated for use on the system it is applied to.

      I don’t think that anybody has enough info to adapt it for climate estimates.

      KK

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    yarpos

    Morning mirth:

    - https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-town-besieged-polar-bears-173143073.html some funny comments along the lines of thought they were starving now there are too many?

    - just collected my $50 from the State government for looking at their energy compare website. It didnt make much sense, wouldnt accept my real world usage input (insisted on a lower value), wouldnt accept my suppliers pdf bill as valid (their requested input) and gave me invalid annual costs (I spend $30k on electricity pa apparently vs reality of $1500). Still I get paid for 15 minutes of puzzlement.

    If you are in VIC you may as well let them buy you half a tank of gas https://compare.energy.vic.gov.au/

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      Robber

      I also collected my $50 from Vic Dept of Energy, and helped several people to claim their gift. I found the site worked well, and several people have saved $300/year off their electricity bill by switching suppliers.

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    yarpos

    Found a very nice aspect of having NBN infrastructure in place this afternoon.

    Was completely p1ssed of with my new ISP (Activ8me) after they bought out my out old ISP (Boom Broadband) and initated and very badly executed migration of customers.

    Rang and alternative that I was thinking of when I initally picked iSPs (Aussie Broadband) and was presently surprised. They had a service at port on my NBN box in 2 hours and I changed over straight away , job done. As a pleasant bonus I seem to enjoying much better throughput.

    I am a big fan of voting with my feet when cr&apped on by suppliers.

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    Another Graeme

    I know how but unfortunately didn’t record it, the segment came on as I was lying in bed on the nod.

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    Another Graeme

    I just had a look on freeview catchup and on the win/sky site and couldn’t find anything. Hopefully someone thought to record it.

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