JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Midweek Unthreaded

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Midweek Unthreaded, 9.0 out of 10 based on 11 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/yanl57ds

161 comments to Midweek Unthreaded

  • #
    el gordo

    Beijing storms ahead with increased coal consumption.

    https://www.thegwpf.com/how-green-china-fooled-the-world-new-coal-boom-continues-2/

    They tried the renewable folly, picked up a big tick from the UN, but it was just a Chinese hoax.

    140

    • #
      Dennis

      Due to the increasing threat from carbon dioxide emissions coal is being used to fill holes overseas so that Australia can save the planet.

      80

      • #
        el gordo

        In 2016 China had a problem with over capacity and they applied the brakes on new coal fired power stations. Now its all go as they gear-up to become the leader of the new world order.

        https://www.eco-business.com/news/china-is-building-coal-power-again/

        80

        • #
          PeterS

          Clearly they don’t waste any time. If and when they need more power they immediately increase the number of coal and nuclear power stations. Similar story in the UK with nuclear power stations. In the US they are bolstering their existing coal and nuclear power stations to allow them to last longer than originally planned. Here we on the other hand are still scratching our heads trying to decide what to do. Morrison et al better pull their fingers out and do something to save Australia from a disaster just waiting to happen as more coal fired power stations start to close down.

          140

      • #
        PeterS

        Not sure if Australia can save the planet when Australia itself needs saving, probably by China who can then also get all the coal and Uranium they need for free.

        110

        • #
          el gordo

          It won’t pan out that way, we’ll continue to be a quarry and tourist resort, but they have no intention of subjugating us. There is simply no value in that.

          40

          • #
            PeterS

            On the contrary. If things get really bad we will beg for them to take us over.

            51

            • #
              el gordo

              They don’t want a slave class, their motto is ‘abundance for all’.

              My local MP Andrew Gee recently said ‘I am particularly pleased that there is a new determination to break-up big power corporations if they continue to gouge consumers on price.’

              This type of intervention would be extraordinary, what do you think?

              21

              • #
                PeterS

                Your thinking is limited to current times. The future will be very different once we have our next big financial crisis. It will spell the end of the West, unfortunately.

                50

              • #
                el gordo

                The US-China trade realignment is producing a new world order and Australia should take advantage.

                If there is another GFC then the Yuan would strengthen even further, but I don’t see any financial disaster coming up.

                Morrison is about to get us back in the black and the China Infrastructure Bank would be happy to lend us money for new infrastructure.

                20

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                If the BRICS nations complete setting up their own settlement system to remove the prominence of the Amercian dollar, the US might go to war to stop it. I can see the US over extending itself and being demolished financially by China who may decide to call in all their govt debt in one hit, and break the US. And thats not even thinking about the current Communist attempted take over the USA thats running….

                If the Communis…..er…..Democrats get their way and manage to have Trump declared insane ( Soviet style ) and removed from the Whitehouse using the 25 Amendment, the USA will collapse if the people don’t rise up and stop the Communists.
                My concern is that while the US govt is battling the communists internally, it would be the perfect opportunity for any terrorist sleeper cells to activate further trouble ( remember all those missing Russian suitcase nukes? ) and you would have chaos.

                The USA has let Communist influence develop to such an extent, the left controls the news, the universities, and the media and almost the minds of the current 20 something generation. Its a scary prospect. If the USA falls, what bulwark exists agianst global Communism?

                20

              • #
                PeterS

                OriginalSteve, I doubt Trump wants a war with anyone. The US military might but they are of course under orders of the President. However, Russia will go to war if the US does not head their warning about Syria. Russia has sent S-300 missiles to Syria in retaliation of the shooting down of their planes a few days ago. Next time someone tries to shoot down their planes Russia will not hesitate to fire the missiles.

                10

          • #
            Geoff Sherrington

            El G,
            You should not sneer that way at Australian mineral industries. Of course, with my background of 30 years in minerals, I would say that. But Australia does exploration and mining at world leading standard and in my time in exploration our little team was world best in new metalliferous discoveries. The proper application of hard science was an essential ingredient. It is no accident that I am so critical of the poor science in climate work. Been there, seen that.
            Rather than throw-aways about quarries, why not think about, then write about, more ways by which Australian science and industry can lead the world. We used to be up there, years ago, in many fields such as aviation and the human immune system and efficient agriculture, but we tend to lose momentum as social trivia get beaten up to the stage of taking away serious funding. We spend hugely on aboriginal welfare, with little progress. We get a plethora of useless trendy industries, like organic farming, cosmetics manufacture, alternative medicine, electricity from windmills, while excluding successful formulae like nuclear electricity and fracking for gas.
            The national priorities are hopelessly screwed up.
            They certainly need discussion and airing, desperately, not knocking of our best successes. Geoff

            102

            • #
              Kinky Keith

              Australian science would get a big boost if we got rid of politicians who just don’t know or care.

              KK

              20

            • #
              el gordo

              OK Geoff, its how they see us.

              I’m in favour of locking the Beijing frackers taking the gas from under our feet and creating open cut coal mines on good agricultural land. I’m up for a fight.

              10

            • #
              Andrew McRae

              Australia was leading the world in aviation? When?? How??

              00

  • #
    • #
      TdeF

      The Germans were openly laughing. That will particularly annoy the Americans. The Russians were not laughing. The ways in which the US can retaliate are endless. Even those predictables who love to see the President humiliated must have a nagging suspicion that the ridicule of the US President has reached a turning point. It’s one thing for the US to ridicule their President, quite another for the Germans to do so. Expect more photographs of laughing delegates to appear.

      100

      • #
        TdeF

        You would have to wonder what will happen when US customers stop buying Audi and BMW and Volkswagens, Siemens and Airbus and German steel. The uncontrollable backlash could be a disaster for the German economy and a real boost for the American economy, an ironic point for Trump.

        110

      • #
        Dennis

        He did warn Germany that their outstanding debt to the US would be collected.

        110

    • #
      clive hoskin

      They may regret their open ridicule of President Trump.Contrary to popular belief he is more and more being held in high esteem by the American people and there might be a few surprises in store for these”Retarded Leftys”in the not too distant future.

      140

      • #

        laughing at something ridiculous is not ridiculing.

        316

        • #
          el gordo

          Donald was talking to the UN Assembly as if it was a gathering of faithful voters, robust and immodest but essentially correct.

          60

        • #
          beowulf

          No, but laughing at manifest positive achievements is.

          90

          • #

            Whether correct or not, he boasted and exaggerated. They were laughing because they are intelligent self-aware people not the usual groupies.

            215

            • #
              el gordo

              ‘…they are intelligent self-aware people not the usual groupies.’

              Its group think personified, enlightened self interest under the guise of saving the planet, hardly intelligent.

              121

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                Agreed. Globalist sock puppets masquerading as “world leaders” aren’t exactly an impartial nor intelligent audience.

                It was like watching the marxist-loving EU President mocking Britain for having the spine to tell the failing EU they were leaving the party as it was naff and the EU are a bunch of leftist fools.

                110

              • #
                Kinky Keith

                That sort of mind set may even be seen as dishonest or corrupt.

                KK

                50

            • #
              Hanrahan

              They only laughed once. By the end he had thrown down the gauntlet to friends who are taking advantages, enemies who threaten and the UN in general.

              What, prey tell, is wrong with the message that he was elected to care for US interests as other governments were and that he has no interest in forcing his will upon others who are caring for their own citizens first?

              120

            • #
              Kinky Keith

              Wouldn’t they be classed as GRASPERS.

              All out to grab as much as possible before they close down the Head Office of the U.N. on the East River?

              But I suppose groupies is O.K. too.

              KK

              11

            • #
              yarpos

              mmmmm, intelligent and self aware, yep. You just have to look at what they have done to Germany over the last decade to see that.

              40

          • #
            TdeF

            Intelligent? Self Aware? Idi*tic. It’s not a question of whether they think something is funny. They are supposed to be intelligent diplomats. Look up the definition.

            100

            • #

              Maybe they thought he was making a joke so diplomatically laughed. The alternative was to believe that he was being sincere.

              29

              • #
                Kinky Keith

                Do go on.

                And on and on.

                It’s Enlightening for those of us who haven’t been inside a university for twenty years.

                So it’s devolved into a trivia quest.

                KK

                81

              • #
                el gordo

                The leaf likes to split hairs over trivial matters, but knows nothing about climate change.

                20

              • #
                TedM

                The truth is Trump was comm,unicating facts, even if the Germans and Gee aye don’t want to believe it.

                30

          • #
            TdeF

            Diplomatic, politic, tactful imply ability to avoid offending others or hurting their feelings, especially in situations where this ability is important.

            60

        • #
          TedM

          “laughing at something ridiculous is not ridiculing.” Therefore they were ridiculing.

          40

    • #
      beowulf

      The Germans in particular need to shut their mouths and mind their manners, and not mock the hand that shields them. They are more vulnerable than ever without their free US umbrella of protection. During the Merkel years their defence forces have been (deliberately??) run down, despite Germany being Europe’s largest economy. They don’t come within a bull’s roar of the 2% GDP minimum they are supposed to allocate to defence as part of their NATO commitment. Australia’s military looks mighty by comparison.

      For instance, although Germany theoretically has 128 Eurofighter jets, only ten are able to actually fly, and just four of those are able to be armed, owing to a shortage of spare parts and weapons equipment. Earlier this year their Air Force chief was sacked for regularly pointing out how parlous things were and embarrassing the Defence Minister once too often. The Germans have their own Marise Payne it seems. As it stands, Germany couldn’t defend a birthday cake from a bunch of 5 year olds without the US there to do it for them.

      https://www.breitbart.com/london/2018/06/03/exclusive-ambassador-grenell-gives-stark-warning-over-woeful-readiness-of-nato-allies/

      121

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Germany may actually move into a Russian sphere of influence…..they need gas to keep them warm…

        50

      • #
        Hanrahan

        The Germans called the Lockheed Martin F 104 the widow maker because they had so many crash. While it’s safety in all air forces was questionable no other nation had the same problems as the krauts. This is said to have been because of poor organisation and training.

        01

      • #
        Dennis

        Yes, but do the German Defence Forces have cross dressers and pink fingernail brigade?

        Ours does.

        But why would Australia or Germany need military personnel if the global army or police are keeping the peace?

        [sarc]

        51

  • #
    TdeF

    It was amazing to hear the open laughter at the United Nations when Donald Trump boasted of his performance as the new US President. He was taken aback, as he said “that was unexpected”.

    So the creators of the IPCC, the people taking the US to court for war crimes, the people whose hotel bills and staff he is subsidizing think he is a figure for open ridicule. Not Fidel Castro or even Nikita Kruschev, but the UN elites are prepared to openly laugh at the US president. Absolutely amazing for so called diplomats, whatever they think.

    This will not go down well with the President or with the US people. It’s one thing for Hollywood actors to pretend they can run the country, another for the US population to listen to the laughter at their President.

    From the Paris Agreement to economic sanctions, they may well have crippled the UN and their cushy jobs. Closing the Palestinian embassy, killing the subsidation of Hamas may well expand to a view by the American people that the UN is the enemy. The river of money will dry up.

    At the same time John Kerry is openly meeting with North Korea and Iran to tell them to stall until his team can get back.

    So between ridicule and subversion, the President’s policies will harden. Without our own Julie Bishop stating that we will ‘survive’ the Trump Presidency, it may recast world trade and alliances.

    Unbelievable arrogance, ridicule not respect from the UN delegates. Even Obama is trying to take credit for the unprecedented US economic performance.

    After Stalin spoke, the clapping went on for twenty minutes as the first to stop clapping was suspect. The US will note who laughed. You can only hope it was not our Australian staff, but it would not be surprising as Bishop and Turnbull had already shirtfronted the US President, not Putin. Amazing days.

    200

    • #
      Dennis

      The delegates should not have been surprised, when President first address the United Nations in New York he warned that it had grown well beyond the original concept and must stop interfering in the affairs of member nations.

      He rejected globalism and socialism.

      And said that the America would no longer allow the UN and other nations to take advantage of them.

      Amazing days, indeed.

      130

      • #
        PeterS

        It’s not a surprise to me. Trump is an outsider. So it’s only natural that he would be ridiculed. The only problem though there is only one of him and dozens of other leaders around the world against him.

        40

    • #
      Hanrahan

      Was it a year ago in the UN Nikki Haley warned that the US “is taking notes”?

      Some of America’s “friends” are slow learners. ScoMo has not yet revealed his attitude AFAIK.

      60

    • #
      RickWill

      You have been taken in by the 5 second news grab from the US press still trying to put Trump down. Have you listened to the entire speech:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KIpnPapquY

      If you have not got an hour to listen to something worth the time then here is a better perspective on the audience response from someone present in the audience:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KIpnPapquY

      When Trump speaks he commands attention and is to the point. It may make some uncomfortable as few have his confidence and consistency.

      20

  • #
    Dennis

    George Soros and Australia.

    I discovered this website and the story below recently and I feel certain that the contents would be of interest to all who worry about globalism and related issues of sovereignty of nations;

    http://concit.org/soros-and-his-australian-minions/

    100

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      Thanks Dennis,
      I hated what I read, but am glad to have read it. Am now more terrified than ever.
      Cheers,
      Dave B

      40

      • #
        Dennis

        Thank you David.

        I sometimes feel helpless and when the politicians I once trusted to safeguard our nation let us down so badly I worry even more about what I don’y yet know about hidden in their future plan.

        But from where I sit the rise and fall of Turnbull explains a lot. But the remaining Black Hand faction with associates Union Labor Greens & GetUp remain a constant danger.

        Thank you America for President Donald Trump and the patriots supporting him.

        81

    • #
      Annie

      Evil incarnate.

      10

    • #
      yarpos

      I wonder who the new Soros will be? his use by date is coming up pretty fast. I assume they do succession planning in the realm of the evil world domination socialist overlords.

      10

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Trump has been a threat to the UN by simply removing millions of dollars from the corrupt / incompetent organisation, so no surprise to their childish behaviour.
    Just hope he wipes the smile off their faces by removing even more money .

    191

    • #
      TdeF

      As above, the biggest reaction may not be from Trump, but from the American consumers.

      Americans know they are ridiculed in Europe. Whatever PR genius thought it was a great idea to openly laugh at the US president may have done more economic harm than Trump could ever do.

      You can also think that this will shock even Hollywood as patriotism overwhelms negativity. NeverTrumpers too may take a step backwards, fearing a backlash from voters.

      It’s one thing for a family to criticize each other. Quite another for an outsider to do so.

      160

  • #
    • #
      Dennis

      When unreliable consumer parasites mention job creation they never mention the other jobs lost do they.

      130

    • #
      David Maddison

      I’m sure the horse drawn cart industry employed more people than motor vehicles as well, but that’s because the new technology was more efficient than the old technology. Labour was free to do other, more productive things.

      Incidentally, I have a friend just back from the Ukraine. They still use horse drawn carts there although the riders can be seen using cell phones…

      90

  • #
    TdeF

    In the context of IPCC created Global Warming, attitudes to Paris may harden overnight. If there is one thing Americans expect from all these trading partners, holiday destinations and military dictatorships pretending to be democracies, it is respect.

    This may be a pivotal moment in world politics. The days of the benificient mug may have just ended. What country is not dependent on US technology and trade and defence? It’s a short list.

    Goodbye IPCC. You can fund yourselves.

    120

  • #
    TdeF

    Consider what the marketing people are doing right now. There was a stigma associated with German machinery, German cars. Now when an American consumer is debating between a Ford Mustang and a new BMW, which way will he swing? That simple psychology may just have changed. You do not insult your biggest customer.

    Of course the media will try to play this down, but they have had such fun broadcasting it, it’s too late. The stories of Americans save the planet may just be dumped. A film where Americans did not plant the US flag on the moon may find a much smaller audience.

    It’s not about patriotism. It’s about pride and family and belonging and looking after your own welfare first. Especially when you are paying the UN bills, get no thanks and now this.

    120

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      The UN is evil.

      It needs to be demolished and the land re-used ( finally usefully ) as a public toilet.

      70

    • #
      yarpos

      “There was a stigma associated with German machinery, German cars” There is? news to me

      I would be happy to accept/buy/use German machinery, tools, food any day of the week

      20

  • #
    TdeF

    We are seeing the same reaction in NFL games where the refusal to honour the US anthem is driving fans away.

    The very freedom which turned black players into famous millionaires is being protested now? The backlash will grow quickly. If Hollywood wants to sell movies and that is what they have to do, they will have to backpedal too. Saturday night live may have to stop ridiculing the President once Germany is doing so. It is a step too far.

    110

  • #
    David Maddison

    I won’t be watching the new movie “First Man” because the Leftists have again chosen to rewrite history and specifically not shown the scene of the American flag being planted on the moon.

    121

    • #
      TdeF

      It’s the most blatant case of Hollywood rewriting history in many years. It’s a wonder the crew was not the mix of minorities from Battlestar Gallatica and perhaps a Klingon.

      Question. The United States landed men on the moon six times. In the fifty years since, how many countries in the United Nations have put a man on the moon? Please list them in alphabetical order.

      120

  • #
    David Maddison

    Barry Goldwater said this in the US Senate in 1971. Things have got much worse in the almost half century since.

    “The time has come to recognize the United Nations for the anti-American, anti-freedom organization that it has become. The time has come for us to cut off all financial help, withdraw as a member, and ask the United Nations to find headquarters location outside the United States that is more in keeping with the philosophy of the majority of voting members, someplace like Moscow or Peking.”

    70

  • #
    pat

    Macquarie Network news bulletin this morning merely stated delegates at the UN laughed at President Trump. didn’t include a single statement from his speech, other than the one that elicited the laughs (which btw didn’t sound too loud):

    25 Sept: Twitchy: UH OH! WaPo editor triggered by these 2 ‘chilling’ ‘dog whistle’ words in Trump’s UN speech
    by DougP
    President Trump spoke to the United Nations General Assembly today in New York City, and he used a couple words that Washington Post’s global opinions editor Karen Attiah finds troubling:

    TWEET: Karen Attiah: Chilling to hear Trump use “sovereignty” and “patriotism” as dogwhistles in his #UNGA speech.
    https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2018/09/25/uh-oh-wapo-editor-triggered-by-these-2-chilling-dog-whistle-words-in-trumps-un-speech/

    yet the virulently anti-Trump BBC used the following in articles yesterday which were anti-Trump and very pro-Rosenstein (they never explain Rosenstein’s MANY conflicts of interest).

    the clip includes major RINOS Susan Collins and Lindsey Graham (he has changed his tune of late) and it ends with Rosenstein saying it’s important for us to avoid thinking as Democrats or Republicans, but to think PATRIOTICALLY as Americans. yuk.

    VIDEO: 2min02sec: BBC: Rod Rosenstein’s year under pressure
    US President Donald Trump wants Rod Rosenstein to stop the Russia investigation while lawmakers on both sides urge him (Rosenstein) to stand tall.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-45634682/rod-rosenstein-s-year-under-pressure

    20

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Macquarie Network news bulletin this morning merely stated delegates at the UN laughed at President Trump.

      And I’ve no doubt that the entire UN, even including some of our people on Nikki Haley’s staff laughed at him. The swamp extends everywhere in my government. And I wonder how much more can be piled up against Trump before something gives way. If there are people in this world to whom the words sovereignty and patriotism should mean something it should above all others be those bastards at the UN where supposedly they represent sovereign nations to which real honest patriotism should matter. That they’re bothered by those words tells the the whole world where they stand.

      The Donald is likely to get the last laugh one way or another because he isn’t going to back down and something is very likely to give way and Trump will take action even more directly than he has up to now. He has the power to declare a state of emergency over almost anything that’s out of hand and California is pushing him hard to do just that. When you pass laws directing state and municipal employees, especially those wearing a badge, to violate federal law, that puts you in a state of insurrection against the United States. I don’t know how else you can describe it. That would be almost as bad as firing on Ft. Sumter again. And if Trump would just declare California to be in rebellion against the United States he can justify rolling a few armored divisions into Sacramento, San Francisco, Los Angeles and probably San Diego and simply reclaim California for the United States the hard but direct way. If, as I suspect, we are headed for more and more violence I would rather have it sooner than later and under the President’s control as much as possible instead of some mob. Another civil war has been going on for a long time. Why not out in the open where you can tell who the players are?

      Mattis would have no problem at all in following his bosses orders. Some on the Supreme Court would have a heart attack but if Brent Kavanaugh is confirmed, the court will support our first real president since Ronald Reagan.

      And by the way, if you’re following things you’ll see talk that Haley is the rising star in the republican Party. I don’t know if she intends a run for the White House or not. Only she knows that. But I would vote for her any day. She’s decisive, not afraid to think and if she disagrees with her boss she confronts the disagreement directly. I was beside myself with joy when I saw that she was appointed to represent us in the UN.

      80

      • #
        David Maddison

        Brilliantly said Roy.

        Just one question. Can the President declare Californiastan in rebellion against the United States without approval of Congress?

        61

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          I believe he can. He has the sole authority to decide if and how to defend the United States. He can’t declare war, only congress can do that. But it would not work if he had to have a declaration of war or other act pushed through congress before he could do something. It would take too much time. He takes an oath that he will protect the Constitution, meaning the country against all enemies, foreign and domestic. And if a state is in open rebellion against the laws of the United States that makes that state a domestic enemy as surely as if it was sending an army to attack another state. And some of California’s new laws directly endanger public safety which would allow him to declare a state of emergency.

          How can that reasoning not be correct? Unfortunately the presidents enemies will stand in the way and it will be messy so I hope it doesn’t come to that. I understand Trump has sued California over our apostasy. So we shall see. After all has been said and done so far, Trump shows himself to be patient at working for what he wants. I just hope he can get us straightened out before he’s out of office.

          And if the truth be known, I would rather he use the National Guard than the military. And I would just as much like to see no force needed to resolve the issue. But part of the solution depends on those fools in Sacramento and if nothing else works the problem still has to be solved.

          30

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Don’t even ask me about Rod Rosenstein. Don’t ask where our Attorney General is either. I haven’t been able to find him for a long time.

      50

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        I think , finally, Rosenstein is gone, and hopefully Sessions too.

        From everything I can see, if you came across a similar critters in the grass, you’d hear the rattle and then give it both barrels….

        the F*I is hopelessly corrupt and needs to be gutted and fixed, as they basically gave Hellary a free pass.

        Justice – what justice?

        Trump needs to start at the top, and sack & imprison huge numbers in the D*J and The F*I to clean out the guilty.

        50

  • #
    Peter C

    Interesting Story about the ABC in The Age this morning.

    Chairman Justin Milne, wanted Michelle Guthrie to sack Emma Alberici, after Turnbull complained about inaccurate and biased journalism concerning the Governments proposed company tax cuts.

    Milne apparently wrote in an email; “We are tarred with her brush. I think its simple. Get rid of her. We need to save the ABC, not Emma.

    There is no guarantee they (the Coalition)will loose the next election.”

    That seems to me to imply that Milne agrees Alberici was biased, and further that The ABC is perceived as biased and that the ABC needs some insurance if the government is returned.

    I was reminded of the emails between FBI agents Peter Strozc and Lisa Page. ABC deep state?

    Now, as it turns out, Guthrie is gone and Turnbull is gone but Alberici is still there! Neither did Alberici nor the ABC make a retraction or apology.

    61

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      I must apologise to Michelle Guthrie for my comment the other day: it implied that she was a stooge of their ABC.

      Anyone copping such a hiding from the SJWs at ABC can’t be all that bad.

      It seems that Mr Milne might have been a better choice to go, he has mighty ambitions for our tax dollars.

      KK

      40

    • #
      yarpos

      I hope Alberici stays. She is an icon, a glowing example of the sort of quality journalism the ABC stands for. A treasure young journalists can model their work and ethics from. She should stay in the public gaze.

      00

  • #

    Okay then, left field a little, I suppose, but has anyone had much to do with furniture from Ikea?

    We have relocated home, and the problem was space, as we moved into an apartment. There were good reasons for the move, mainly my good lady wife’s health. She loved her garden, and these days with her (put this politely Tony) older age, any time spent in the garden was taxing, and after even a short time, she was tuckered out, and took a day or so to recover, so her children mainly saw it as a good idea to move to a home with less to do, and no garden, so there was no temptation to just do it any more.

    The new apartment has only two bedrooms, so, instead of one room for me, and one room for her, (the two spare bedrooms in our Rockhampton home) we now have only the one spare bedroom. The floor space in area is similar, but here we have an ensuite with a walk in robe as well, and the second bathroom, so a typical his and hers bathroom setup.

    We now had to shoehorn all of my ‘stuff’, and all of her ‘stuff’ from our separate rooms into this one slightly larger second bedroom.

    I got rid of my large computer desk, and also a very old tallboy from her old room. And now we also needed extra storage space as well, on top of what we had.

    Here in Beenleigh, there is better access to all types of retail stores, and they are relatively close as well.

    We got a new washing machine, our first front loader, as the laundry (per se) is just a closet with a dryer, so our top loader would not fit, as the lid could not open fully, previously measured before we left Rocky, so we knew what we had to do here, and got rid of the top loader before we left. Those new front loaders are really good I have found, so easy to operate.

    However, the storage problem existed, hence the extra time I took to set things up, so I was almost three weeks longer offline.

    We cruised the online Ikea site with our Son and his wife, and paid a visit to their huge store at Logan, near here, just up the Freeway. That place is just a maze, but they have so much stuff there.

    I got hold of a tallboy, and a corner computer desk first up, and all their furniture comes in ‘flat packs’, and you construct it yourself. That was two trips to pick them up, and I loaded it all in the back of our small Astra Hatch.

    I was a little worried that I might need help, from our son, but as it turned out, I did in fact do it all myself. I was surprised how easy it actually was to put together, but what surprised me the most was how sturdy the furniture was, once it started to come together. I had the impression that ‘build it yourself’ type furniture was of lesser quality than the whole built items you get from furniture stores, but these are actually just as good.

    It partially solved the storage problem, and that was further resolved with some more open fronted chests of drawers we have placed into that wardrobe in the second room, just some cheapies we picked up at hardware stores etc. also in flatpacks to build yourself, and they were lesser quality, but fit for purpose.

    We also got hold of another chest of drawers for the walk in robe, and a computer chair, both from Ikea as well, and again, further construction.

    The instruction booklets were highly detailed, not like some of those Chinese and Korean ones which are almost indecipherable. So detailed that I had no spare parts left at the end, and everything worked as it should, and I only made the one mistake, and that was resolved by the very next step, so no major problems there.

    There is no text, just images, and I can see why, as if they were required to have text, it would need to be in fifteen languages to cover all the government regulations regarding text these days, so it’s all done with just images, but they are highly detailed, and very easy to follow. (It actually made me smile, because the first thing I thought of was that Kit Kat TV ad where those two medieval guys are building the catapult, and one says ….. “Where are the words?”, so now I know what that was alluding to)

    All up, it was a pleasant surprise, and I’m not one to make frivolous recommendations, but I would recommend Ikea, after this experience.

    We are still working at settling in, now almost 97% finished.

    Barbara misses the garden most, but we will be getting some pots for the balcony for some small Lilly Pilly’s and a couple of Bougainvilleas.

    Urban traffic, and the Freeway traffic as well is just absolute madness these days. That’s something I didn’t have in Rocky.

    Life is good!

    Tony.

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      Roy Hogue

      Congratulations Tony. You seem to have done better than we did. When I married Catharine 22 years ago this month we had to consolidate 2 households. To this day we have 10 tons of junk in a 5 ton house. For some reason it’s impossible to give up certain things because they might someday be useful. Of course they never are.

      If there’s a good psychologist out there maybe we should make an appointment?

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        That was the oddest thing, for me especially.

        I would look at something from the ‘old house’, and wonder out loud, to myself, “Why the hell am I keeping this?” I haven’t used it in years, and I can’t foresee using it again, so out it went. Sometimes it was with a pang of ….. Hmm, maybe I will hang onto it. Some things arrived here, and when I unpacked them, looking for somewhere to put them, the same ‘conversation’ took place, so out they went too.

        It’s odd. I have a record collection of 250 Long Play vinyls, but no record player any more, the last one finally giving up the ghost in Rocky. I am keeping those LP’s but the conversation is becoming a little louder, especially when my son asked me to make a list of them all, which he then gave to good friend of his who has a used record shop, and he (my son) came back with the response that his friend said I had some pretty valuable records in there. I had no idea. Those LP’s were my pride and joy. I would play them once or twice for my own pleasure after purchase, and then tape them to cassette, so I never needed to risk playing the record again, and risk getting it scratched, so, when I wanted to listen to the music, I would just play the cassette. So, consequently, I also had twelve boxes of cassettes (each small box with a dozen cassettes to a box of UD C-90′s so one record per side of a cassette) of my own taped music and other music cassettes. When we arrived here, I looked at those cassettes, and scratched my head. I don’t even own a cassette player any more. So, out they also went. I even spent ten Months with a digital program (from the Magix Company) digitising and remastering those LP’s one by one, so now I have all those LP’s on one dedicated Hard drive, so I can play them at any time, and still not play those LP’s, so that time is coming also when those LP’s might also disappear, and that will be with a great deal of reluctance. They, and the Cassettes, took up four very very heavy small packing boxes, the standard ‘Book’ packing box. The weight was huge, and I was barely able to lift one box.

        The same applied for 40 copies of the ‘Rolling Stone’, when they were printed in a tabloid newspaper, dating from the mid and late 1970′s. I almost threw them out, at the tip no less was the thought, reluctantly hanging on to them and bringing them here, and the ‘record guy’ told my son that these were quite valuable as well. I have absolutely no idea why I kept them for so long.

        I was surprised at how rationally I made the decisions to toss certain things after keeping them for so long. I guess I was just a hoarder at heart.

        As to that record collection, that WILL be hard to part with, if it happens. I do have every Pink Floyd studio album, (all 15 of them) on vinyl, and I know the record guy is hanging out for them, and they will be the hardest of all to part with. Not all of them came out on vinyl, and it was a task to find them all, but not many people can say they have all the Floyds on vinyl.

        You keep ‘stuff’ across the years, and just automatically pack it and take it with you, without even thinking. This time, as I was looking for somewhere to put it, I actually did wonder why I was keeping it.

        It happened during our last move, from Coomera to Rocky in 2010, when I got rid of most of my paperbacks, my own library, and I turfed out almost 400 of them, three book cases full of them, and that saved me around 6 to 8 of those heavy book boxes. There were some I just could not bear to part with, and I still have them, only now in just the one book case, my favourite novels and reference books, all still occasionally referred to.

        You gather things around you over the years, and then wonder why you kept them for so long, and the hardest decision is not where to put it, but why you are bothering to keep it in the first place.

        I can still see those cassettes hitting the bottom of the skip bin.

        Tony.

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          pat

          sounds like the de-cluttering is moving ahead. congratulations.

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          It’s funny really, as even with that hard drive with all my music on it. My sister added her music collection (way way bigger than mine) to it as well, and it’s all on one of those small external hard disk drives.

          There are more than 20,000 separate files, so that same number of songs, taking up around 250GB of storage.

          If I was to start at track one on the drive, and play it for one hour a day, one track at a time, it would take me almost five years to listen to every track.

          I will never hear every song on that drive.

          Tony.

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            Peter C

            I have a box of LPs in good condition. I did look after my records and they all have theri dust covers and sleeves.

            If they have any value I might tkae them to a record shop.

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            Peter C

            I have a box of LPs in good condition. I did look after my records and they all have their dust covers and sleeves.

            If they have any value I might tkae them to a record shop.

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            • #
              Annie

              When we emigrated I cut down on books and LPs…I’ve already regretted some of them, like original Beatles LPs. After visiting Selbourne and climbing the Zigzag with friends a couple of years ago I looked for my copy of Gilbert White’s Natural History of Selbourne; rats! I’d given it away. :( It was a Folio Society edition too, an original one.

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                Annie

                We still have far too many books and a row of favourite LPs, too many old videos and cassettes and a junk shop haul of old ornaments.

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            Greebo

            Back it up Tony. To more than one other drive if poss.

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          MudCrab

          …just the one book case…

          Hang on. Confused here. You mean one book case per room, right?

          (also, remember passageways are rooms.)

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          • #

            Hang on. Confused here. You mean one book case per room, right?

            I had three book cases in my one room, two of them at 82Cm wide, and the big one which was 124Cm wide, all with around five shelves, so six spaces in each, and all were full, of LP’s, (all along the bottom shelf of the big one) and all other shelves full of books.

            Funny, when I parted with all those books, the ones I thought twice about were all the James A Michener books. I didn’t get ‘into’ Michener until 1996, and when I did, I bought up all the ones I could find, and ended up with 20 of them, which I then read over the next few years. Lucky I got them when I did, because he died in 1997, and his novels just disappeared from the shelves, (royalty payments and their dispersal after his death probably) and from then on they were only available at second hand book stores I suppose.

            I liked nearly all his novels, and was sad to see them go, even though I did keep three of them I just couldn’t part with, Chesapeake, Space and Texas.

            There was an author who did his research.

            Tony.

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              Yonniestone

              Tony we’re a fan of IKEA also with some really good shelving and chairs but the most used is a wooden step-up thingy that’s useful and very stable, good for changing globes or high shelving.

              If you have a really big LP collection you could set up an eBay store and maximise your profits by selling them individually if you have the time of course, our friends dad did this with his old car memorabilia and did so well he brought some more! LOL

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                ROM

                My wife of some 58 years now, [ god help me if I forget! ] likes to keep reminding [ ! ] me that the garden needs some work, a lot of work done on it .

                My answer to that is;
                I spent nearly 50 years of my life trying to grow bloody plants when I was farming.
                I didn’t retire into town to try and grow more bloody plants!

                So Roundup still does a good job in early spring around here. Although a chain saw would be handy for some of the weeds and thistles.

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          Roy Hogue

          Catharine and I butted heads for a long time over tools. You can never have too few wrench or socket sets, drill motors and the like. Or so I said. But we finally compromised and got rid of some duplicate tools. And still we have her toolbox and mine. Go figure.

          Then there were the cooking and dining items. Never try to consolidate 2 households. Blow it all up and start over.

          We’re still in love after 22 years so maybe nothing else matters very much. I hope so because we’re not very good at decluttering.

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          Graeme#4

          As one that’s also in the midst of a move after 45 years, I completely symphasise with you. I made a conscious descision two years ago to declutter so it’s a lot easier now to pack everything.

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      Chris in Hervey Bay

      Hi Tony,
      Congratulations in moving to Beenleigh.

      My family were amongst the first settlers in Beenleigh in 1867.

      My great, great grandfather started the first blacksmith shop in City Road, next door to the pub on the corner near the roundabout, on the Western side. (all gone now)

      My Great grandfather continued on with the business and added a coach and wagon building shop. He became the local magistrate and was nicknamed “the King of Beenleigh” Their house was in City Road too, next door to the blacksmith shop. I remember it well as a child.

      My Great Grandmother was a Heck, the eldest girl, and the Heck family still own and operate the Rocky Point sugar mill.

      You should go to the Beenleigh Historical Village and Museum in Main Street, on the way to Yatala. Ask around and there and you’ll get to know who I am.

      A little story for you all.

      On Saturday morning, June the 9th, 1928, my father and uncle heard an aeroplane flying around and it had seemed to have landed out near Yatala, where Martens Street is today. It was the Pacific Highway back then. They got on their horses and road out there to see the plane. It was the Southern Cross !
      Charles Kingsford-Smith found the coast a Ballina, NSW, and then flew north to Beenleigh, landed, the crew cleaned up and flew on to Eagle Farm, Brisbane, to meet the crowd waiting for them.

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        Chris,

        Umm!

        I live on Main Street, less than one kilometre from that historical village, and each morning, I take my daily 6KM walk down Martens Street.

        A question for you. We moved here to Queensland in 1960, to Labrador, when I was 9 years old, and went up to Brisbane a few times up the Highway, and through Beenleigh, in the days when the Highway went through Beenleigh. I seem to remember that the War Memorial was in the middle of the crossroads in town. Am I correct in remembering that. I found it again the other day, moved up behind the Library near James Street.

        Also noticed a lot of the streets named after WW2 Campaigns, Alamein Street, Buna, Gona, and Milne as well, those last three part of the New Guinea campaigns.

        Small World, eh!

        Tony.

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          Chris in Hervey Bay

          Hi Tony,
          Yes, you are correct. They removed the war memorial before they put the roundabout in.

          Where the Noyea Riverside Retirement Village is today in Martens Street, is where the Southern Cross landed. Back in the 1950′s, I remember the location as a very large open grassy field that had a gentle slope down to the Albert River.

          My great grand fathers and Great Grand Mothers (Anna Louise) house was removed from City Road and is now restored at 10 Tansey Street, I guess that is pretty close to where you are.

          There are lots of streets, bridges and parks also named after family members.

          The big stained glass window in the front of the Lutheran Church in City Road is dedicated to my Great Aunt.
          .
          .

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      yarpos

      Ikea stuff is generally pretty good, functional and reasonably durable stuff.

      We have used a lot over decades especially with kids rooms and myriad bookcases. Much of our house in Europe was Ikea, including large wardrobes as builtins werent common where we were. I think I put about 12,000 swiss francs through the local Ikea. Good things relocation allowances.

      Durability is pretty good. We found things get tossed to use heavy use, changing requirements, changing tastes rather than anything falling apart.

      The only real downside we have found is that some items dont survive moves very well and are prone to damage.

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      RickWill

      IKEA has made significant improvements in the strength and rigidity of its furniture over the generations. The stuff made 40 years ago does not compare well with what they offer today. Even 20 years ago it paid to strengthen and glue bases in drawers. Now they supply little plastic brackets that do that job as well as little tubes of glue to make a permanent job.

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    pat

    TdeF brings up the virtue-signalling in sport.
    what’s funny is sport is the most hierarchical, competitive enterprise imaginable, yet various sporting individuals keep aligning themselves with SJWs who claim to be against both. go figure.
    the fact sports stars – like Hollywood & other celebrities – rely on the FakeNewsMSM for their continuing fame might suggest they know which side to take, especially since Trump won the presidency.

    here’s Amanda Smith on ABC Life Matters (changing the presenters did not improve the program). the 2 guests argue for sharing – not being greedy, selfish competitors – & they are given nearly 17 minutes to make their case! no opposing voice:

    AUDIO: 16min56sec: 24 Sept: ABC Life Matters: Amanda Smith: Competition vs cooperation: which human instinct is stronger?
    Watching the news can definitely make it seems like humans are – at heart- tribal and competitive beings.
    But psychologist ***Niki Harre from the University of Auckland believes our instinct to cooperate has the capacity to be stronger than our instinct to compete if only we could reconnect with it – she is running workshops to help us do just that.

    Meanwhile, University of Pennsylvania ***Kristopher Smith’s new research on the Hadza in Tanzania is helping to understand how sharing works.
    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/lifematters/competition-versus-cooperation:-which-human-instinct-is-stronge/10291360

    29 May: NZ Herald: ***Dr Niki Harré: Are we as selfish as we think?
    A widespread “tale of terror” in Western societies is that people are focused on getting ahead in a world obsessed with money, materialism, individual success and status.
    In fact, this tale has worked its way so far into our view of human nature that we may think it a simple truth: people are selfish and society works best when it plays to this.

    So even when it comes to major collective problems, ***like climate change, we often assume that solutions must either give people no choice or appeal to self-interest…
    Businesses will only take action to reduce their carbon emissions when legally required to do so or if they see a profit in it…

    \Competition for funding and prestige pushes researchers to discover climate change combating technologies…

    A large body of research in psychology shows that most people’s first move in collective settings is to co-operate…
    To go back to climate change, the people I know who are forging the way on this issue – in business, the media, universities and politics – are doing so because they feel compelled to figure out what is going on and share what they have learnt with others.

    The story that we are primarily selfish is a tale of terror then, because it alienates us from our best selves and other people. It implies that we must build a personal empire in order to survive and so stymies progress towards an open society in which we collectively solve the problems we face…
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=12060020

    SIX-year study that involved ***Kristopher Smith:

    20 Sept: Eureka Alert: Nomadic hunter-gatherers show that cooperation is flexible, not fixed
    Working with the Hadza in Tanzania, one of the last remaining populations of this kind in the world, Penn psychologists determined that an individual’s propensity to share depends largely on how much the group shares
    University of Pennsylvania
    The six years of work shows that, year after year, cooperators live with other cooperators–results remarkable in light of Hadza residence patterns…

    A person’s level of cooperation in a past year did not predict her level of cooperation in a future year. Instead, a person’s propensity to cooperate depended largely on how much her new camp shared as a whole. The findings, which appeared in the journal Current Biology, highlight humans’ capacity to adapt to different social environments.
    “There’s a whole lot to be optimistic about here,” Apicella says. “People are changeable. We’re not permanently altered by our experiences at a single point in time. We’re flexible and largely in sync with the people around us.”…

    Data collected from visits to 56 camps between 2010 and 2016 lead to a greater understanding of this facet of human biology. Nearly 400 Hadza adults of all ages participated in the work with the Penn psychologists, playing what’s called a public goods game. It’s a tool often used in similar contexts to determine how much someone might contribute to the overall good of a group at a cost to herself…

    In Western settings, the public goods game often includes money. Every participant receives a set dollar amount, say $10. Each $1 that they contribute to the public pot gets tripled, and the resulting amount gets evenly shared amongst everyone, regardless of individual contribution. Individuals keep the money they don’t donate.
    “You can always do better by not contributing anything,” says ***(Kristopher) Smith, a fifth-year psychology graduate student. “Economists predict that in this game, people should not contribute anything. But humans don’t always act in pure self-interest, and in fact, many do contribute to the public good.” …

    “If the hunter-gatherers are living with people who cooperate, they themselves cooperate,” Smith says. “The Hadza are changing camps every six to eight weeks. It might be that if people in Western populations had that sort of movement, that change in their social environment, then we’d see more adoption of local norms.”…

    Funding for the research came from the National Institute on Aging (grant P01-AG031093), Science of Generosity Initiative of the University of Notre Dame (supported by the John Templeton Foundation), Canadian Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council, and Beacon Project at Wake Forest University (supported by the Templeton Religion Trust).//
    https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2018-09/uop-nhs091318.php

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      MudCrab

      Wow.

      Hunter-gatherers are cool, ergo we should all become semi nomadic.

      Wow.

      The reason groups were semi nomadic was either that the land lacked the resources or the group lacked the skills to improve the yield, or both. I put it to anyone to provide a valid argument that these groups spent great chunks of their daily lives in constant transit for fun, it was a survival necessity. Find new food… or die.

      Nomadic life styles also had a negative effect on birth rates. Baby humans in practical terms are a massive resource drain. They also can’t walk. This means the mothers and extended family groups would need to carry any really young children and in practical terms they would still run out of arms. Hence the typical nomadic group would not/could not pop out the bubs constantly and birth rates were based around waiting for the first child to be old enough to walk.

      Co-operation would have been a mix of family obligation and force. If you are struggling to find enough food the survival instinct starts to look very harshly on freeloaders. Anyone not pulling their weight would run the risk of being ‘asked’ to leave the group.

      The other point this study’s author seems to be avoiding discussing is that ‘co-operation’ lasts for as long as there is food to go around. What most studies gloss over is the fact that a lot of these semi-nomadic groups spent a lot of time “co-operating” with force with any rival group that threatened to move in and compete for the food resources. Remember if there was enough food to go around they wouldn’t be constantly on the move to find renewed hunting/gathering grounds.

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        Yonniestone

        A perfect real world example of this is the TV show “Survivor” where everyone interviewed afterwards says the largest use of their time was looking for food and trying to rest to conserve energy when they didn’t find enough, its completely lost on environ-ideologists that without the development of human civilisations to this point many of us wouldn’t even exist due to higher mortality rates that goes with a tribal lifestyle without the safety net of modern medicines that were developed in the luxury of institutions courtesy of the industrial revolution.

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    pat

    just heard the opening remarks again. muffled laughter for the line the FakeNewsMSM is obsessed with. MUCH laugher AND applause for Trump’s good-humoured come-back. basically, MSM has ignored almost everything in the speech. worth reading all:

    25 Sept: White House: Remarks by President Trump to the 73rd Session of the United Nations General Assembly | New York, NY
    Today, I stand before the United Nations General Assembly to share the extraordinary progress we’ve made.
    In less than two years, my administration has accomplished more than almost any administration in the history of our country.
    America’s — so true. (MUFFLED Laughter.) Didn’t expect that reaction, but that’s okay. (MUCH Laughter AND applause.)…

    America’s economy is booming like never before. Since my election, we’ve added $10 trillion in wealth. The stock market is at an all-time high in history, and jobless claims are at a 50-year low. African American, Hispanic American, and Asian American unemployment have all achieved their lowest levels ever recorded. We’ve added more than 4 million new jobs, including half a million manufacturing jobs.

    We have passed the biggest tax cuts and reforms in American history. We’ve started the construction of a major border wall, and we have greatly strengthened border security.
    We have secured record funding for our military — $700 billion this year, and $716 billion next year. Our military will soon be more powerful than it has ever been before.

    In other words, the United States is stronger, safer, and a richer country than it was when I assumed office less than two years ago.
    We are standing up for America and for the American people. And we are also standing up for the world.

    This is great news for our citizens and for peace-loving people everywhere. We believe that when nations respect the rights of their neighbors, and defend the interests of their people, they can better work together to secure the blessings of safety, prosperity, and peace…

    Each of us here today is the emissary of a distinct culture, a rich history, and a people bound together by ties of memory, tradition, and the values that make our homelands like nowhere else on Earth.
    That is why America will always choose independence and cooperation over global governance, control, and domination.
    I honor the right of every nation in this room to pursue its own customs, beliefs, and traditions. The United States will not tell you how to live or work or worship.
    We only ask that you honor our sovereignty in return…

    America is governed by Americans. We reject the ideology of globalism, and we embrace the doctrine of patriotism…

    We recognize the right of every nation in this room to set its own immigration policy in accordance with its national interests, just as we ask other countries to respect our own right to do the same — which we are doing. That is one reason the United States will not participate in the new Global Compact on Migration. Migration should not be governed by an international body unaccountable to our own citizens.
    Ultimately, the only long-term solution to the migration crisis is to help people build more hopeful futures in their home countries. Make their countries great again…READ ON

    Thank you very much. Thank you. (Applause.)
    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-73rd-session-united-nations-general-assembly-new-york-ny/

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      pat

      versus the globalist perspective:

      25 Sept: UN: Secretary-General’s Address to the General Assembly
      Our world is suffering from a bad case of “Trust Deficit Disorder”.
      People are feeling troubled and insecure.
      Trust is at a breaking point. Trust in national institutions. Trust among states. Trust in the rules-based global order.

      Within countries, people are losing faith in political establishments, polarization is on the rise and populism is on the march.
      Among countries, cooperation is less certain and more difficult. Divisions in our Security Council are stark.

      Trust in global governance is also fragile, as 21st-century challenges outpace 20th-century institutions and mindsets…

      Individual leaders have the duty to advance the well-being of their people.
      But it runs deeper. Together, as guardians of the common good, we also have a duty to promote and support a reformed, reinvigorated and strengthened multilateral system.

      We need commitment to a rules-based order, with the United Nations at its centre and with the different institutions and treaties that bring the Charter to life…
      In the face of massive, existential threats to people and planet — but equally at a time of compelling opportunities for shared prosperity — there is no way forward but collective, common-sense action for the common good.
      This is how we can rebuild trust…

      Inequality is undermining faith in the social contract and is a clear obstacle to the achievement of the Sustainable Development Goals…

      And in this year marking the 70th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the human rights agenda is losing ground and authoritarianism is on the rise.

      As the politics of pessimism spreads, we must guard against self-fulfilling prophecies…READ ON
      https://www.un.org/sg/en/content/sg/statement/2018-09-25/secretary-generals-address-general-assembly-delivered-trilingual

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        TdeF

        “Together, as guardians of the common good”? Now that does betray a perceived role which was never the role of the United Nations. It is not and never should be a world government.

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          TdeF

          As for the incredible waste of claiming the world is going to end if Western democracies do not stop living, travelling and manufacturing using coal, oil and gas, that is not about the common good. It is about world socialism and the transfer of wealth through carbon taxes.

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          Yonniestone

          “there is no way forward but collective” could they get any more commo-centric if they tried?

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      Roy Hogue

      And they will all flush their copy of it down the appropriate means of disposal as soon as possible.

      The horse has been led to water far too many times only to refuse to drink and then suffer for it while we bailed them out. Sorry, world, if it was up to me it will not happen again — ever.

      If you follow a good example you succeed. If you follow a bad example you fail. Either way is hard work so, United Nations of this world which do you prefer, the work that leads to prosperity and security or the work that leads to strife and suffering?

      I wish I could say we’e following the President’s advice. But too many are not.

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      Hanrahan

      Here is the youtube where you can hear what we are talking about:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KIpnPapquY

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        Roy Hogue

        I only got to see a few excerpts from that speech up to now and all I can say is that it was the best job of handing someone his head on a platter that I’ve ever seen. And he did it to the entire United Nations. And he praised nearly everyone while doing it. The art of the deal on full display.***

        And then there’s MIchael Moore on The View. What a pathetic man.

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          Roy Hogue

          *** I’ve noticed this about Trump before. He called Kim Jong Un, “Rocket Man,” and otherwise dismissed and put him down as unworthy to even talk to until he made a conciliatory gesture and started talking. Then Suddenly Trump is praising him. Why? Well now Trump wants to get him to talk and ultimately not only agree to something he doesn’t want to do but then go ahead and do it. And stick to it. And you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

          And there’s still a monumental amount of work to be done and Trump is maxed out at 8 years.

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    pat

    more at the link:

    22 Sept: ABC: Renewable power darling Carnegie Clean Energy hit by a wave of shareholder discontent
    By Rebecca Turner and Kathryn Diss
    The home-grown technology of Carnegie Clean Energy to harvest the power of waves has, until now, been irresistible to politicians of all stripes, along with thousands of small investors.
    But a storm has hit the Perth-based renewable energy darling, leading many once-loyal supporters to question whether it is time to stop pouring money into the dream of wave energy.

    While the company is not alone in struggling to compete ***with the dramatic drop in price of solar and wind power, it is facing questions over whether wave power will ever be commercial…

    The ASX-listed company is also struggling financially and has long been dependent on shareholder capital, as well as tens of millions of dollars of government grants and tax breaks, to fund its research.

    In recent interim results, Carnegie posted a $64 million loss, including a $35 million write-down of its most valuable asset — the intellectual property of its CETO technology, which was first developed in 2003.
    It has lost two long-serving executives this year — chief financial officer Aidan Flynn and chief operating officer Greg Allen.
    Its share price has dropped from highs of 25 cents more than nine years ago to around 1.4 cents today…

    Carnegie’s directors include former AFL commissioner Mike Fitzpatrick — a big shareholder — and well-connected chief executive Mike Ottaviano, who took home a pay package of more than $780,000 in 2016-17…

    The company’s Facebook page and ASX statements often include photos of Mr Ottaviano with politicians of all persuasions — from federal Treasurer Josh Frydenberg to WA Premier Mark McGowan — to promote projects which have been funded by their governments…

    The company’s grants include:
    •Almost $29 million in Australian Renewable Energy Agency (ARENA) funding for projects off Garden island and Albany in WA
    •More than $10 million in Low Emissions Energy Development funding and $15.75 million for the Albany project from the WA Government…

    Perth-based David Harries, one of the architects of the Renewable Energy Target policy and a director of EMC before it was bought by Carnegie, said it would be a challenge to ever get the cost of wave power to be competitive with solar and wind.
    Professor Harries, an energy consultant and part of the University of Western Australia’s school of engineering, said the high density of wave energy was its key attraction, but also a problem because it was destructive energy…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-22/power-company-carnegie-energy-hit-by-wave-of-discontent/10289772

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      pat

      should have included this excerpt to explain RET architect Prof Harries’ involvement with EMC – EMC was a solar company:

      (excerpt)The company (Carnegie) has never turned a profit, which is not unusual for a company still trying to commercialise its technology. But shareholders have voiced their concern about a recent announcement Carnegie was selling a majority stake in its solar microgrid company, Energy Made Clean (EMC), at a 75 per cent loss. END

      2014: SMH: Peter Hannam: Blackout on green projects if target for renewables is axed
      This week saw US President Barack Obama unveil the most ambitious policy in US history to cut greenhouse gas emissions – a requirement for 1600 power plants to cut emissions 30 per cent on 2005 levels by 2030 – and news that China was also working on a cap for its greenhouse gas emissions…

      David Harries, an architect of the original renewable energy target design in 2000 and now a director of clean energy consultancy EMC, says that at a Perth event last month Mr Warburton said the target had been set up at a time when human-generated greenhouse gas emissions were thought to cause climate change.
      ”Now we know that’s not true, we have to question the whole target mechanism,” Harries, an adjunct professor at University of Western Australia, remembers Warburton as saying. But Warburton told Fairfax Media this reading of his view (about climate change) was ”absolutely not correct”.
      https://www.smh.com.au/business/blackout-on-green-projects-if-target-for-renewables-is-axed-20140606-39oj0.html

      Bloomberg: Prof. David Harries, B.Sc., Dip. Ed., M.Env.Stud., Ph.D. serves as the Inaugural Director of the Research Institute for Sustainable Energy, which was established by Murdoch University in 2003 to assist the development of Australia’s renewable and sustainable energy industry. Prof. Harries served as an Assistant Director of the Office of Energy Planning and Conservation in Tasmania. Prof. Harries served as Executive Director of the Sustainable Energy Development Office (SEDO). He also consulted to Western Power, Warren District Renewable Energy Group and Tasmania Conservation Trust. Prof. Harries has extensive experience in the renewable energy sector. He serves as Non Executive Director of EMC Solar Limited.

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      beowulf

      This is not exactly a wave generator, but a Scottish 2MW turbine floating tidal generator from early 2016, however the figures are extremely noteworthy.

      The spokesman for the operating company stated:
      “It’s very site-specific. But we are confident that with a [state funded] strike price of £300/MW [sic], we can generate a commercial return,” he said.

      That’s right, a mere £300/MW (presumably that is supposed to mean MWh, that’s AU$544/MWh) should turn a profit, so we can infer that its break-even point is somewhere slightly south of $544/MWh. And just to put that in perspective, Kogan Creek coal Power Station in QLD contracted baseload power for $38/MWh last year.

      What idiots dream up these schemes, and what greater idiots swallow them?

      http://analysis.newenergyupdate.com/tidal-today/scotrenewables-eyes-cost-savings-largest-floating-turbine

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      yarpos

      The ABC should get chief Economics analyst Emma Alberici to go over the business model and report how it went wrong, and what extra subsidies are need to prop it up till it gooes wrong again.

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      Graeme#4

      Wave energy has worked well in Australia, hasn’t it? The seaside councils that agreed to them are now stuck with the ugly remains off their coasts. It seems they don’t stand up too well to our rough seas, and the seas off the WA coasts are no exception.

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    Geoff Sherrington

    Many here should enjoy the 38 minutes from yesterday’s speech to the UN by President Trump.
    In particular, around 30 min, he talks about Germany reliant on Russian gas while not paying its share of NATO defence. There are 5 German reps present, caught grinning like juvenile monkeys. If they were from my country and I had any way, they would be stood before more cameras next day to grovel before being sacked.

    Has anyone seen how the Australians in the audience reacted?

    PM Morrison would be outright stupid if he failed to see and react to the several strong Trump messages about being friend or foe. In short, if we want to stay friends, we have to work hard at it.
    Geoff

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      Dennis

      President Trump’s first address to the United Nations was also impressive and I trust that Australian leaders took note of his wise words and advice.

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    pat

    trashed Guthrie yesterday, now call for Milne to go! lol.
    shut down the ABC:

    26 Sept: ABC: Calls for ABC chairman Justin Milne to go over claims he tried to get journalist Emma Alberici sacked
    At a meeting in Sydney this afternoon ABC staff unanimously passed a motion calling for Mr Milne to stand aside while an independent inquiry takes place…
    Mr Milne didn’t comment on the accuracy of the Fairfax report in a statement released this morning, saying instead:

    “The job of the ABC Board is to independently govern the Corporation, protect its best interests, ensure that it is well funded, well managed and that our content is of the highest standards. That is precisely what the Board has done and will continue to do. I do not propose to provide a running commentary on day to day issues which arise in pursuit of our duties.”…

    TWEET: Lucy Carter (journo with 4Corners)
    Biggest turnout to a union meeting I’ve seen in over a decade. People pouring out of lifts.

    Alberici told ABC Radio Melbourne’s Jon Faine that she had not heard that the chairman wanted her sacked until she read it today…BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-26/calls-for-abc-chairman-justin-milne-to-leave/10306596

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      yarpos

      ABC busily talking amongst themselves, about themselves, to a small and ever shrinking audience. Just perfect! Biggest story on the planet apparently.

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    pat

    Youtube: 4min5sec: Nigel Farage – Trump’s UN Speech Was Music To My Ears
    Fox Business with Stuart Varney
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0T73XtCpQ0

    remember the muffled laughter came BEFORE Trump even mentioned his economic accomplishments:

    26 Sept: ABC: Donald Trump’s economic boasts draw laughter from world leaders at United Nations
    Updated about an hour ago
    ABC/Wires
    US President Donald Trump has used his speech to the United Nations General Assembly to defend his “America First” policies of putting US interests ahead of any move towards globalism, a message that was greeted by silence, blank stares, headshakes and even laughter at times from wary world leaders…

    (Iran’s) Rouhani suggests Trump has ‘weakness of intellect’
    He said he had “no need for a photo opportunity” with Mr Trump and suggested the US President’s pull-back from global institutions was a character defect…

    In his address last year to the UN, Mr Trump insulted Mr Kim as a “rocket man” bent on nuclear destruction. On Tuesday, Mr Trump praised Mr Kim for halting nuclear and missile tests, releasing Americans held prisoner and returning some remains of US soldiers killed in the 1950s Korean War…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-26/donald-trumps-economic-boasts-draw-laughter-at-un-speech/10304672

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    pat

    numbers you definitely can’t believe in:

    25 Sept: ClimateChangeNews: What does the Chinese public think about climate change?
    Ninety-four percent of the public think China should be in the Paris climate deal, although many don’t know exactly what that means
    By Li Jing
    (This article was originally published on ***chinadialogue)
    China has had an eventful summer marked by record-setting heatwaves, deadly flash floods, and typhoons…

    As the government tries to position itself as an international leader in responding to global warming, recent surveys show that the public supports the government’s actions. A reassuring 94.4% of respondents to a national survey in 2017 said that climate change is happening, and 66% believe it is mostly caused by human activities…

    Two separate surveys on this topic, one carried out by the China Centre for Climate Change Communication (China 4C) in 2017, and the other by the Innovative Green Development Program (iGDP) in 2018, show that Chinese attitudes to climate change are being driven by high-profile government-led campaigns and public concern about air pollution…

    This mindset has also secured public support for the government to limit greenhouse gas emissions (97%), and remain in the Paris Agreement (94%), according to iGDP…

    ***However, when analysing these responses there is an important caveat: the public might not fully understand exactly what they’re being asked…

    But when it comes to making a difference with their wallets, the Chinese public is open to spending money to offset carbon emissions, with over half of respondents willing to spend more than 100 yuan (US$15) annually to do so. This is in line with previous polling results that found urban Chinese consumers willing to pay more for electricity from renewable sources…

    The Climate Change in the Chinese Mind 2017 survey was conducted by the China Centre for Climate Change Communication (China 4C) with a computer-assisted telephone survey in 2017. A total of 4025 people, aged between 18 to 70, were surveyed via mobile phone (84.6%) and landline (15.4%). The respondents were from 336 Chinese cities…

    Survey of Public Perceptions on Low-Carbon Cities was conducted by Innovative Green Development Program (iGDP), a Chinese think tank, in 2018 as part of its research on China’s Low-Carbon & Green Index for Cities (LOGIC). LOGIC rated 115 Chinese cities on their performance. A total of 2,000 residents from 20 cities with the highest LOGIC rating were selected for the survey. Respondents aged between 18 and 55 were surveyed online, while the rest aged between 56 and 70 were interviewed offline.
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/09/25/chinese-public-think-climate-change/

    ***Wikipedia: Chinadialogue.net
    Chinadialogue.net is an independent, non-profit organisation based in London and Beijing. It was launched on July 3, 2006. Chinadialogue is funded by a range of institutional supporters, including several major charitable foundations…
    Board members:
    The members of the chinadialogue Editorial Advisory Board are:

    Professor Mark Elvin (professor emeritus of Chinese history at Australian National University),

    Caspar Henderson (see below),

    Ma Jun, (Chinese environmentalist, director, Institute of Public & Environmental Affairs; Chief Representative of SCMP.com in Beijing; appeared in the Leo DiCaprio-narrated National Geographic film, “Before the Flood)

    Professor Pan Jiahua, (Director, Institute for Urban and Environmental Studies, Chinese Academy of Social Sciences; Former adviser on environment and dev., UNDP, Beijing; Lead author, IPCC Working Group III 3rd, 4th and 5th Assessment Report on Mitigation. Co-Editor, Climate Change 2001: mitigation)

    Lord Patten of Barnes (Christopher Patten, member of the Global Leadership Foundation, which works to promote good governance around the world; ex-Chairman of the BBC Trust; anti-Brexit),

    Professor Orville Schell (ex-Dean of the University of California, Berkeley Graduate School of Journalism),

    Sir Crispin Tickell, Professor (no description needed)

    Wang Canfa (environmental lawyer, founder and director of the Beijing-based Center for Legal Assistance to Pollution Victims)

    Professor Wang Ming (environmentalist).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinadialogue.net

    Wikipedia: Caspar Henderson:
    He became co-ordinator of the Green College Centre at Oxford University from 1992 to 1994, which focused on climate change and other environmental issues. In 1995 and 1996 he worked on Costing the Earth, the flagship environment program on BBC Radio 4.
    From 1996 to 2002 he wrote on topics such as energy, science, environment and human rights for The Financial Times, The Independent, New Scientist, The Ecologist, Environmental Finance, Green Futures and other newspapers, magazines, and broadcast media. In 1999 he won the IUCN-Reuters award for best environmental writing in western and central Europe. From 1996 to 2002 he was also a consultant, analyst and writer for government, commercial and non-profit organisations.
    From 2002 to 2005 he was a senior editor at OpenDemocracy, a project for open global politics, where he commissioned, edited and contributed to analysis and debate on globalisation, security, the environment, and the politics of climate change.
    He has been a contributing editor and member of the editorial advisory board at chinadialogue, and a member of the advisory group for Artists’ Project Earth…

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      pat

      so far I’ve found 2 of the foundations funding ChinaDialogue.net:

      Rockefeller Brothers Fund: China Dialogue Trust
      $190,000 for 2 years
      Awarded: September 15, 2016
      Program Goal: Advance Healthy and Low-Carbon Development: Environmental Governance
      $190,000 for 2 years
      Awarded: September 11, 2014
      Program Goal: Advance Healthy and Low-Carbon Development: Environmental Governance, Mitigate Environmental Pollution and its Impact on Human Health (revised 2015), Advance Solutions to Climate Change (revised 2015)

      China Dialogue funding:
      ***Sigrid Rausing Trust
      Grant history:
      SRT has supported Chinadialogue since 2009.
      Total funds received to date: £1,060,000
      Current grant: £100,000 over 1 year
      Grant start: 1st August 2018

      lengthy, fascinating, but with a good laugh as well:

      ***2014: UK Telegraph: Sigrid Rausing on money, addiction and collective farming
      Sigrid Rausing, owner of the Granta publishing house and one of Britain’s richest women, says that with great wealth comes great responsibility
      By Mick Brown
      Sigrid Rausing also owns a 40,000-acre estate in the Monadhliath mountains in the Scottish Highlands, from where she waged a long but unsuccessful battle against the plans of her neighbour the Bahamas-based multi-millionaire Sir Jack Hayward to install 33 wind turbines on his Dunmaglass estate. What she prefers to call ‘wind power stations’ in ‘wild areas’ are a particular bête noire of Rausing’s.

      ‘It’s a form of industrialisation,’ she says, ‘but because it’s supposed to be “green” people describe it as something other than what it is. I like things to be described as what they are. If we are content with industrialising the Highlands and the wild landscapes of Britain, then let’s have wind farms – but we must be aware it means widening narrow roads, it means pylons everywhere, and it means an uncertain power supply as well. So I am not sure that, cradle-to-grave, that form of energy is particularly “green” if you take everything into account.’…
      https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/authorinterviews/10820277/Sigrid-Rausing-on-money-addiction-and-collective-farming.html

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      yarpos

      Just tell me what I need to say to get my social credit score up, and never be the first one to stop clapping.

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    Dennis

    Everything we discuss here and complain about can be traced to one source;

    http://concit.org/soros-and-his-australian-minions/

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    Geoff Sherrington

    Melbourne, home town, looks like having a cool Tmin average for September 2018. With 5 days to go, the Tmin average for Sept is running about 1.5 deg C lower than the long term average. Actual figures (uncorrected for UHI) depend on which weather station you use, now that Melbourne Regional with its 160 years long record was closed 4 years ago. I can’t find any replacement station with similar climatology. Nor Have I seen the BOM propose one, though perhaps they have and I have missed it.
    Yet we still get statements about Melbourne’s long term average, like when a year or a month comes in as a record high by 0.01 degrees or similar nonsense.
    Can anyone add clarity? Geoff.

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    robert rosicka

    As if the greens aren’t dangerous enough , they want gas lines banned from new housing subdivisions.

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    pat

    YouTube: 34min45sec: President Trump Addresses the 73rd Session of the United Nations General Assembly
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6XXNWC5Koc

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    Graeme No.3

    Much to my surprise I found my self listening to, and enjoying, ABC Radio. I was stuck in the car waiting for a goods train to clear the level crossing and switched on/ surfed until I found an interview about cane toads. Interviewer Richard Feidler(?) and I missed name of the Professor from UNSW who obviously knew a lot. I have tried to order a copy of his book Cane Toad Wars.
    I hadn’t realised that cane toads had evolved (no puns about Greenies please) to spread faster.
    It appears that eradication might not be possible and we might have to live with them. The Prof was keen on training local wildlife to avoid them (aversion therapy). An idle thought crossed my mind that the public too might need some aversion therapy against the Greens and the Far Left of Labor. Various quite illegal ideas crossed my mind and were discarded…the only surviving one was to bring back the old stocks so the arrogant Left gets a better idea of the regard they are held in. Anybody got any suggestions?

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      Hanrahan

      I never listen to ABC but would like to have heard that.

      What is not widely known is that there has been massive die-back of buffo in the coastal, tropical towns. When I was a boy we could play toad golf, flick cig buts at them which they would swallow [briefly]. They were an endless source of amusement and never hard to find. Now, the morning after a wet night you are unlikely to see any dead toads on the road when there would have been one every few yards back then.

      I can think of things that have changed, such as the loss of backyard chook pens and smaller and tidier yards. The two I’ve seen this year were small and one looked quite unhealthy. I’ve also heard that snakes are developing smaller heads and thus unable to swallow the larger, more poisonous toads and crows have learned to flip them on their back before eating them. The poison glands are back of the head, but these things don’t explain the near 99% die off [my unscientific guess].

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      Hanrahan

      There was a TV doco – Cane Toads: An Unnatural History (1988). I’m sure it is available on youtube but at least look it up in wiki, the pic shows this sweet kid with her massive pet toad. It’s a good show.

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    Hanrahan

    Book your Aussie hotel/motel accommodation direct, don’t rip off family businesses.

    https://player.vimeo.com/video/288285200

    Thanks Dick Smith.

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      yarpos

      Will I agree in principle, a lot of these family businesses do themselves no favours in terms of promoting themselves and having functional web sites to book through.

      I will often look through the various booking sites and then try and find the places directly, especially small motels/caravan parks of we are going bush, but sometimes they make it hard.

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    Vanishing Joshua trees: climate change will ravage US national parks, study says – the Guardian.

    It’s remarkable how global warming negatively affects such a wide range of habitats – arctic, desert and almost tropical.

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    Bodge it an scarpa

    Have noticed over time that a few contributors to this blog, are retired and live in rural areas, some off the grid and making their own electricity by various means. I too love in the sticks offgrid in a mainly LPG fuelled cabin for cooking, hot water, refrigeration and running my 4wd, a bit of 12volt lighting, and a 3.500watt petrol generator for times when I need 240 volt power. On an aged pension, the ever increasing cost of LPG and petrol is beginning to bite hard. So have been contemplating borrowing a bit of technology from WorldWar 2 when petrol was severely rationed to civilians, so farmers and other country folk kept their tractors, trucks, generators etc running on gas extracted from firewood via wood gas producers.
    Was wondering if anyone reading this has actually tried doing the same and could point out the pitfalls or otherwise of this system. Wood supply is no problem for me, thanks to the Black Saturday fires of 2009.

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    john

    Breaking: “Green” Senator charged with over 100 counts dies in car crash.

    https://www.bing.com/amp/s/www.boston.com/news/politics/2018/09/27/brian-joyce-former-state-senator-found-dead/amp

    According to my solid sources he may have neen under house arrest and about to offer a plea bargain….

    john

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    Dan Donnachie

    IPCC Special Report “Global Warming of 1.5ºC”

    On Monday 08 October 2018 the IPCC is going to commit another giant act of [snip "non-honest PR, marketing"]. It is going to release a report that was actually written by politicians and pretend that it was written by scientists.

    This is yet another example of what I have blogged about here.
    http://steelydanswarandpeace.blogspot.co.uk/2010/09/ipcc-reports-are-poltics-not-science.html

    This new IPCC report is not a full “Assessment Report” – the next full AR is AR6 and won’t come out until next year.

    This report is a “special” report whose full name is:-
    “Global Warming of 1.5°C, an IPCC special report on the impacts of global warming of 1.5°C above pre-industrial levels and related global greenhouse gas emission pathways, in the context of strengthening the global response to the threat of climate change, sustainable development, and efforts to eradicate poverty”

    However, this “special” report like all IPCC reports will have the “Summary FOR policymakers”, written by some scientists and academics re-written by non-scientists into a “Summary BY Policymakers.”

    The people who do the re-writing will be not be scientists and academics. They will be diplomats and bureaucrats – policy wonks.

    Whole new bits of science will be lied into existence by these non-scientists. Similarly, actual bits of science will be lied out of existence by these non-scientists.
    Science will be transformed into propaganda.

    The jargon word used by the IPCC for this transformation is “approval”. This word is a masterful piece of Orwellian misrepresentation because most people would not think that “approval” means:- radical transformation from “Summary FOR policymakers” to “Summary BY Policymakers.”

    “the approval of the Summary for Policymakers will take place on 1-5 October”
    quoted from:- https://unfccc.int/topics/science/workstreams/cooperation-with-the-ipcc/ipcc-special-report-on-global-warming-of-15-degc#eq-3

    Then on Monday 8 October 2018 will come the proof that [snip "it"] is intentional.

    “Subject to approval, the Summary for Policymakers will be released on Monday 8 October with a live-streamed press conference.
    quoted from:- http://www.ipcc.ch/news_and_events/ma-p48.shtml

    The “Summary BY Policymakers” will be released to a huge press fanfare as if it were still the “Summary FOR policymakers”

    No mention will be made of the fake science that it now contains. It will be presented as if it had been written only by scientists even though the most politically influential parts of it will have been written by policymakers, not scientists.

    The original “Summary FOR policymakers” will never be released, because the IPCC make sure that that is kept confidential. The “Summary BY Policymakers” will be released under the [dishonest] name “Summary FOR policymakers.”

    The bits that will be most quoted by the media and politicians will have been written by policymakers, not scientists.

    More proof that their [behaviour] is intentional is that the report will not mention the names of the diplomats and bureaucrats who actually wrote the most politically important bits of it.

    The list of authors of the report will mention only the names of the scientists (and academics) who wrote the “Summary FOR Policymakers.

    The IPCC is going to pretend that the “Summary BY Policymakers” IS the “Summary FOR Policymakers by deliberately omitting the names of the diplomats and bureaucrats who wrote the most politically important bits of it. Why so shy about their contribution? Is it just modesty that forces the policy-wonks to leave their names off the report or is it deliberate deception?

    I think that it is deliberate [snip] involving literally trillions of dollars of public money.

    It should be investigated by the police forces of every country in the world.

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    el gordo

    ‘Australia will freeze its level of funding for a Paris-linked Green Climate Fund that stalled amid a ‘crisis of confidence’. Oz

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      el gordo

      ‘It is clear that the push to meet the Paris carbon dioxide emission targets is leading to higher power costs, and hence prices, and unreliable supply.

      ‘It is also a fact that the predictions of the warmists have not happened.

      ‘The IPCC scientific reports are stated in possibilities, yet the guidance for policy makers is written as certainty. A farce.

      ‘I hope the new leadership of the Australian Government has the courage to guide our country in a rational manner on this subject. as Angus Taylor seems keen to do, and abandons the Paris Treaty.’

      Jerry Ellis AO over at Quadrant

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