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Just like that: 200 years of gas for Australia discovered in NT

Australia now has 200 years of frackable gas to add to the 300 years of coal

And yet we are still buying Chinese solar panels. The big question is how much of our our gas and coal can we use before nuclear energy makes them irrelevant? h/t GWPF

In April the Northern Territory lifted its ban on fracking. The Beetaloo basin may have a whopper 50 to 100 trillion cubic feet of gas, and it appears to be a “stacked play” in layers (like Texas).  To put that in perspective, the largest gas project in Australia in the Bass Strait has produced 8 trillion cubic feet so far with another 7 trillion to go. Shale turned the USA from an energy dependent state to the worlds largest fossil fuel producer.

Geoscience Australia estimates the NT has about 257,000 petajoules of shale gas

[Australian Associated Press]

The Northern Territory holds enough natural gas to supply Australia for 200 years-plus and is comparable to the shale resources that have revolutionised the US energy sector, Resources and Northern Australia Minister Matt Canavan says.

Senator Canavan described Beetaloo, located southeast of Katherine, as “a world class shale resource rich in liquids that is comparable to US shale resources which have been so critical in turning around the US energy market and manufacturing sector”.

“The refinement of hydraulic fracturing (fracking) has turned the US from the world’s largest net energy importer just over a decade ago to becoming a net energy exporter in recent years,” he said.

 

Australia, gas discovery, NT, Beetaloo, map.

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Just like that: 200 years of gas for Australia discovered in NT, 9.9 out of 10 based on 51 ratings

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70 comments to Just like that: 200 years of gas for Australia discovered in NT

  • #
    PeterS

    Not just here but all over the world nations are discovering huge new reserves of coal, oil and gas. So much for the end of fossil fuel. I suspect it’s only going from strength to strength as it gets cheaper as nations scramble to make as much as they can. The renewables industry is the biggest scam of all time.

    391

    • #
      Leonard Lane

      What great news for Australia!

      80

    • #
      sophocles

      Quite right PeterS,
      Quite right Leonard Lane.

      It’s the worst possible news for the Renewable Racketeers, and the best possible news for the people, as it will give them leverage.

      Watch for a campaign to ban or prevent fracking to prevent any exploitation of the shale gas resources (if there isn’t already one). It will give Australia surety for electricity in the near future, and long life when combined with LFTR nuclear technology. A real “gold mine.”

      40

  • #

    Yer can say that again. Madness of crowds and mobs, courtesy
    of Saul Alinsky Mob-Rule-Rules for Radicals, et Big Al, promoting
    energy poverty….Will the last one leaving the building please
    blow out the candle?

    150

  • #
    Kinky Keith

    It’ll get a good price overseas.

    KK

    120

    • #
      Tom O

      I always love these headlines – same in the US. 300 years of coal, 200 years of oil, 250 years of gas. Sounds great. That, of course is IF Australia, in this case, continues to ONLY use it at the current rate and doesn’t use it faster. SO, lets sell it, and get a good price overseas! Yeah!

      Excuse me? What about Australia’s future? In other words, WHY let the rich make a killing out of a still limited commodity today while the future of the average Australian is sold out? MAYBE there will be an acceptable energy source found in the not too distant future to replace fossil fuels, but until there is one, WHY send Australia’s future to China and India, as examples, so that the rich can make BIG money today? Does the average Australian benefit from their wealth? Same in the US.

      60

      • #
        Kinky Keith

        Hi Tom

        Your second paragraph has beautifully outlined the real issue.
        The rich are manipulating the country’s wealth.

        If the system can be currently used to export our gas overseas to get better “margins” it’s almost certainly going to continue with this new find.

        The added benefit is that a local shortage is created and we locals, who actually own this gas, end up paying more for the “scarce” resource.

        KK

        60

      • #
        Hanrahan

        WHY let the rich make a killing?

        Because the poor can’t find the trillions needed to develop LNG trains.

        00

  • #
    theRealUniverse

    Good! use it for power. The planet has almost unlimited resources of gas. This is not surprising (they found more).
    More on natural hydrocarbon processes (non bio) http://www.gasresources.net
    “..Russian-Ukrainian theory of deep, abiotic petroleum origins and demonstrating the high-pressure genesis of petroleum.”
    There will be more of this stuff found (gas resources), Greens, crawl under rock.

    172

  • #
    Mal

    We are energy rich, but through political mismanagement, we are heading for energy poverty.
    The idiot greenies think they will rule the world.
    In reality they will just create a vacuum where the strong, China, India or Indonesia will just walk in.
    No strategic thinking to protect our sovereignty.
    Blame the left leaning ABC and associated popular progressive press who have pushed their propaganda for years slowly brainwashing the masses.

    241

  • #
    Don A

    Can I comment on the money promised to the pacific Islanders in the Pacific Islands Forum? Tuvalu since 1971 have INCREASED in area, so who has not done their due diligence and said stuff it. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-02954-1

    170

    • #
      NB

      Ever so slowly the left is falling apart. Amazing to watch as desperation inspires its adherents to greater and greater calumny.

      120

      • #
        PeterS

        Yes the more they lose the angrier and more violent they will become. We are already seeing it in the US. I’m afraid I can see a civil war high on the probability stakes over there.

        121

        • #
          RicDre

          “Yes the more they lose the angrier and more violent they will become.”

          The Brett Kavanaugh Supreme Court hearings demonstrates that point pretty clearly.

          80

        • #
          Hanrahan

          I think civil unrest is front and centre of Trump’s mind and that is why the Wicked Witch is still free.

          The Ohio governor, Kasich, said that McCain “was put to death two days ago”. He made no attempt to walk it back either. How else would Qanon have been able to give a date a month ago? I hope Q is real, he might be but that would mean that the Trump/Sessions war is all an act to get the left defending sessions. THAT is a leap of faith.

          00

    • #
  • #
    TedM

    Here’s hoping that the NT Govt. has sufficient resolve when the inevitable protests start. I really look forward to seeing this go ahead.

    91

  • #
    John of Cloverdale, WA, Australia

    It is fracturing not frackturing. Anyone in the oil business nows (sorry, knows) this.

    60

    • #
      C. Paul Barreira

      Regardless of spelling, South Australia—where fracturing is banned—can have none of it.

      90

    • #
      Robert Swan

      It’s refrigerator not refridgerator so why does everybody spell it “fridge”?

      40

      • #
        sophocles

        Robert Swan @ #

        It’s refrigerator not refridgerator so why does everybody spell it “fridge”?

        Ah, English is an interesting language. Frig and fridge are both short forms or abbreviations of refrigerator as you so rightly point out. Both are pronounced the same with a soft `g.’ The OED (Oxford English Dictionary) admits both spellings so I guess it comes down to which primary school you attended.

        Fortunately, it doesn’t extend to `brig’ (hard `g’) and `bridge’ (soft `g’). A brig is a two-masted square-rigged sailing ship, whereas a bridge (soft `g’) is something city slickers try to sell to the naïve.

        21

  • #
    Graeme#4

    I believe the map shown indicates how easy it would be to link the large gas fields in the Carnarvon Basin ( which should be linked to the Browse Basin soon) through to the SA gas network via Alice Springs. The 1400 km Kalgoorlia gas pipeline was constructed in 12 months and cost 400m, so surely the same could be done to resolve the eastern gas issues. Then you don’t need import terminals on the wrong side of Australia, and you don’t need to push pipelines through valuable farmland.

    50

  • #
    Ian1946

    How long before it is all sold to Communist China?

    70

  • #
    TdeF

    Who came up with building windmills and why? I can think of no good reason. Can’t Australians think for themselves?

    I have that we should set an example for the world to follow, as everyone admits the windmills will make no difference at all. Even the Chief Scientist. At least $6Billion a year for nothing at all.

    So how does this example business work? I never understood why any country would copy self harm? Especially the people buying our coal and gas.

    140

  • #

    Remember, our fuels are only naughty if they are consumed here. You can sell many times our small local consumption to Asia and it’s not a problem. That’s how they make our solar panels over there…with coal they buy from us!

    Something to do with the boat ride and sea air, maybe. Either that or we’re in the grip of a demented and sinister form of collectivism that manipulates and mocks us every time we open a newspaper or turn on a television.

    160

    • #
      Plain Jane

      “Either that or we’re in the grip of a demented and sinister form of collectivism that manipulates and mocks us every time we open a newspaper or turn on a television.”

      Thank you for nicely putting the reason why I dont turn on the TV and I have to buy fire lighters and something to line the cats tray with.

      50

  • #
    pat

    it’s still kill coal:

    6 Sept: ABC: Gas industry calls on Federal Government to address energy and climate policy ‘failure’
    By Jane Bardon
    (Jane Bardon has reported for ABC TV and Radio News in Darwin since 2008… She has also worked for SBS News and The Age Online in Melbourne. Before moving to Australia in 2003, she reported and produced for BBC radio current affairs and BBC News Online for five years)
    At their annual conference in Darwin, stakeholders expressed frustration that consensus, which was starting to form over Malcolm Turnbull’s National Energy Guarantee (NEG), disappeared with his prime ministership…

    “As policymakers seek to tackle the energy trilemma and solve a decade-long failure to effectively integrate energy policy and climate policy, ongoing uncertainly prevails in the market,” the APA Group executive of transmission Rob Wheals told the conference…
    APA Group, Australia biggest gas pipeline owner and operator, appealed to politicians to put the issue back on their agenda.
    “We really do need federal and state governments to agree, and we nearly got there, and so I am hopeful that Australia will be able to develop an energy policy that takes into account our interest in climate,” Mr Wheals told the ABC…

    ‘Gas-renewables partnership’
    Gas industry advisers and consultants speaking at the conference stressed their industry should not be seen as at loggerheads with renewables.
    Martin Wilkes, a managing partner at RISC, which does consultancy work for companies including Santos, said “with the technology that’s available I think the best mix that we can hope for at the moment is gas and renewables, but that will change as the technology develops”.

    ***But Mr Wilkes said the Federal Government’s recent pronouncement that it would support construction of more coal-fired power stations was “a dangerous precedent”…
    “The idea of building new coal-fired power stations is in my mind a backward step,” he said.
    “I think we need to be looking to close off coal from the power generation mix, and rely on something that will be more reactive, and more in keeping with partnering renewables, which is what gas is.”…

    The Deloitte director of consulting, Alan Samuel, said it is unlikely Australia would be able to switch from coal straight to renewables, without more interim use of gas.
    “Gas is by far the cleanest of the fossil fuels and it has critical mass in global demand, so it’s easier to accelerate switching from coal to gas in power stations than directly pick up all that demand with renewables,” Mr Samuel said.
    Deloitte expects Northern Territory gas fracking projects may find it easier to leverage investment than offshore projects, because onshore upfront costs are less…

    Shell is keen for Darwin to be one of its main service centres for its Prelude offshore gas processing project — which is the world’s largest floating natural gas facility and based in waters off the north-west of Western Australia…
    Darwin-based businesses exhibiting in the conference hall said they were extremely keen to get a piece of the action in both the gas and renewables industries…

    John Hooper from Ampcontrol electrical engineers, who have opened a Darwin office, said his company used to have an 80 per cent coal industry customer base, but now it is courting the gas and renewables industries just as enthusiastically.
    “We’ve found that a lot of our core skills are easily transferred into markets that aren’t traditional for us, such as renewables and oil and gas,” he said.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-06/gas-industry-calls-for-energy-climate-policy-federal-government/10210680

    40

    • #
      Dave in the States

      It would be interesting to see an analysis of how much co2 and h2o is yielded per BTU energy produced by natural gas and coal in turn. Not that I think it matters if x or y amount of ghg are released into the atmosphere, but since that is the rationale behind this madness.

      It would also be interesting see how much it costs to produce one BTU energy from and coal and from natural gas in turn.

      30

  • #
    pat

    5 Sept: ABC: Santos boss berates Federal Government for ‘populist’ approach to energy policy
    By Jane Bardon
    Australia’s gas industry has used its annual conference in Darwin to launch a scathing attack on the Federal Government.
    Santos has accused the Government of unfairly blaming the gas companies for the east coast gas crisis because they send most of their supplies offshore under export contracts.
    The company’s chief executive, Kevin Gallagher, told the South-East Asia Australia Offshore and Onshore Conference, potential limits on gas exports and bickering over energy policy were threatening the international investment needed to develop new projects…

    The Santos boss called on the Government not to go ahead with its threat of limiting the amount of gas that can be exported, to try to ensure domestic supply.
    “Surely we are not seriously proposing to tear up export contracts,” he said.
    “I’d like to see our politicians make clear that those long-term offtake agreements will be honoured.”…
    “Company CEOs regularly summoned to Canberra, have become the punching bags of politicians seeking votes from consumers annoyed by rising energy prices,” Mr Gallagher said.
    “My concern is that as we get closer to a federal election, the two major political parties will try to outdo each other with populist interventions that pay no regard to Australia’s reputation for stability.”
    Instead, he said they needed to support conditions which would encourage overseas investment in more projects to try to bring more supply into the market…

    He warned all political parties against biting the hand that feeds the economy $40 billion a year in export dollars…
    Mr Gallagher said internal Federal Government instability, uncertainty about energy policy, chopping and changing state environmental regimes and fracking moratoriums have already damaged confidence among investors in Asia, the US, the UK and Europe.
    He said the company’s Petrel-Tern-Frigate fields, 250km west of Darwin, were lying dormant.

    “No customers are knocking on our door to support the development of these fields,” he said.
    “Overseas investors are genuinely concerned about export and price controls, and the security of their investments in Australia.”…
    Mr Gallagher said the industry is now prepared to lift its opposition to controls on exporting gas that is not already contracted, to domestic gas reservation policies for new projects and to a national interest test for new LNG export train.
    Speaking to the ABC, the ConocoPhillips vice-president of external affairs, Kayleen Ewin, also identified regulatory uncertainty as the biggest threat to the industry.
    She said that was in an environment where the United Stated and Qatar are competing for finance to get their projects up…

    Federal Resources Minister Matt Canavan told the conference his Government was doing everything it could to support the industry’s development, particularly in the Northern Territory.
    “We have more gas in the Beetaloo Basin than we know what to do with,” he said.
    “We will do whatever we can to support and help.”

    He chose to deflect the gas industry’s instability accusations by aiming criticism at the Territory Government’s new royalties regime, which will cost companies slightly more.
    “To attract this investment we need government certainty,” he said at a later press conference.
    “We need a competitive tax regime and I just think here the Territory Government are trying to have a bet each way.”
    After approving fracking this year, the Territory Government is now unreservedly backing the gas industry…
    “The thorough process and ultimate outcome has found broad community acceptance,” Chief Minister Michael Gunner told the conference.

    The Government’s Pepper fracking inquiry found in fact a majority of the community were opposed to fracking.
    When asked by the ABC what evidence the Government had that the community’s view had changed, Mr Gunner said: “We’ve proven that we can be trusted.”
    He said the Government is now estimating the Territory’s Beetaloo Basin contains 500 trillion cubic feet of gas — more than double that initially modelled.

    ***”It could be a billion trillion cubic feet — it wouldn’t matter if we don’t have the policy right to develop it,” Mr Gallagher said…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-05/santos-gas-federal-government-policy-investor-confidence/10204284

    00

  • #
    pat

    6 Sept: CarbonPulse: COMMENT: Australia is not on track to reach 2030 Paris target (but the potential is there)
    By Anna Skarbek, CEO, ClimateWorks Australia
    New analysis (LINK) by ClimateWorks Australia has found Australia has three times the potential needed to reach the federal government’s current 2030 target, but this will not be achieved under current policy settings.

    ENERGY IS NOT THE ONLY SECTOR…
    Emissions are still above 2005 levels in the industry, buildings and transport sectors, and only 3% below in the electricity sector. It is mainly because of land sector emissions savings that overall Australia’s emissions are on track to meet its 2020 target, and are currently 11% below 2005 levels…
    Fortunately, Australia is blessed with opportunities for more emissions reductions in all sectors…

    The gap to the 2030 target could be more than covered by further potential for emissions reductions in the land sector alone, or almost be covered by the further potential in the electricity sector alone, or by the potential in the industry, buildings and transport sectors combined. Harnessing all sectors’ potential would put us back on track for the longer-term Paris Agreement goal of net zero emissions.

    Essentially this involves increasing renewables and phasing out coal in the electricity sector; increasing energy efficiency and switching to low carbon fuels in industry; increasing standards in buildings; introducing vehicle emissions standards and shifting to electricity and low carbon fuels in transport; and undertaking more revegetation or forestation in the land sector.

    The opportunities identified in each sector are the lowest-cost combination using proven technologies that achieve the Paris Agreement goal, while the economy continues to grow…
    This article was originally published on The Conversation.
    http://carbon-pulse.com/58229/

    6 Sept: ClimateChangeNews: Bangkok Bulletin: UN calls for more time
    By Megan Darby in Bangkok, Karl Mathiesen and Natalie Sauer; Additional reporting by Helga Timaroczky
    An early start has been called for climate talks in Poland in December, with negotiators facing a huge task to write the rules for the Paris deal.
    The UN climate chief Patricia Espinosa wrote to governments on Thursday to let them know that the Katowice COP24 would start a day earlier than scheduled – on 2 December…

    Espinosa’s deputy Ovais Sarmad told CHN the Sunday start would make room for a meeting of heads of state on the Monday, but not allow that to eat into negotiating time. He said it did not indicate talks in Bangkok were running behind.
    The decision was taken in consultation with the Polish hosts…

    The top Polish official, Michał Kurtyka, briefed observers on Wednesday that there would be capacity for 20-25,000 people. That’s less than half the number in Paris and a third less than last year’s talks in Bonn, reports Climate Tracker.
    To manage the squeeze, the presidency is considering issuing day passes…
    The IPCC will publish a special report in October on the tougher 1.5C temperature target, which will set the tone for Katowice…

    On the outside
    •Pacific nations convinced their biggest regional partner Australia to sign up to a declaration that climate change was the “single greatest” threat to security in the region…
    •Aussies love their coal. A new report by Australian academics, however, points out that market forces alone could see the country’s coal use fall sharply in the 2030s…
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/09/06/bangkok-bulletin-un-calls-time/

    10

  • #
    pat

    the CAGW thought police in action again, claiming a victory, of sorts!

    4 Sept: DesmogUK: Santander Forced To Distance Itself From Climate Science Denial Conference
    By Chloe Farand
    Santander has been forced to distance itself from a climate science denial conference after its logo was published on the event’s website without the bank’s knowledge.
    The bank, which is one of the world’s biggest, told DeSmog UK it was not a sponsor of the climate science denial conference taking place in Porto, Portugal, at the end of this week.
    However, Santander admitted giving money to the University of Porto, where the conference is being held, to “support investigation and research” but added that it did not oversee how the money was spent.

    The conference (LINK), called “Basic science of a changing climate: How processes in the sun, atmosphere and ocean affect weather and climate” says it is “open to different opinions and interpretations of changing climate”.
    Held at the University of Porto’s Faculty of Humanities, the conference has been organised by Maria Assunção Araújo, a professor at the geography department, who is due to address the conference on sea level rise in Portugal and ice retreat in Greenland.
    Speakers include prominent climate science deniers Piers Corbyn, Philip Foster, Christopher Essex, Nils-Axel Mörner and Christopher Monckton, who will give the two-day conference closing speech before participants are invited to take part in a “cheese and port mingle”.
    The conference also includes a session for students to ask speakers questions…

    A spokesman for the Univeristy of Porto told DeSmog UK that the conference was not organised by the university despite being held on its premises and that views expressed at the conference “do not refelect the official position of the University of Porto about the subject”.
    He added that the conference had been organised at the initiative of one of the faculty’s professors who applied to a programme sponsored by Santander aimed at supporting international events being held at the university…
    ***“It is our conviction that the universities should be a space of open debate and discussion, where the presentation of conflicting ideas and perspectives should be valued. We also believe that censorship of opinions — even the ones that we do not agree with — should not be part of the activities of any university and it is in this context that the University of Porto will host this conference,” he said, adding that this “does not conflict with the university’s commitment to figt against climate change”.

    In an email to DeSmog UK, Santander said it supported the University of Porto as part of its universities programme but that it was not aware that its logo had been used on the conference’s website.
    “Santander is not a sponsor of this conference,” a spokeswoman told DeSmog UK.
    “Santander has always and continues to do all it can to support sustainable growth and combat the impact of climate change, which is undoubtedly one of the greatest challenges we face.”

    She added that the money Santander gave the university could be used in any way the university saw fit.
    ***“We do not instruct Porto University how to use funds it receives from Santander. It can use funding resources to support investigation and research at their sole discretion and decision, to respect the university’s academic independence,” she said…
    https://www.desmog.co.uk/2018/09/04/santander-forced-explain-why-its-logo-appeared-climate-science-denial-conference-website

    10

  • #
    pat

    BBC promotes a SURGE, an “EXTRAORDINARY ACHIEVEMENT”, and a BOOM where none exist:

    5 Sept: BBC: Electric vehicle sales surge in UK as fuel prices rise
    The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) said hybrid, plug-in hybrid and pure electric cars made up 8% of the overall market.
    The number of total vehicles registered was up 23% on the same period in 2017.
    But SMMT’s chief executive warned “it would be wrong to view the market as booming.

    ***”August is always a small month in new car registrations ahead of the important plate-change month of September,” Mike Hawes said…

    Last month 7,489 electric and alternative fuel vehicles were sold, up from the 3,968 sold in August of 2017. In total 94,094 cars were sold last month…

    While calling the surge in electric sales an “extraordinary achievement”, Ian Gilmartin of Barclays urged caution, alluding to the fact that the British car industry has had a bruising few months, suffering from a 4% decline in sales so far this year…
    “All eyes will now be on next month’s data.”…

    The boom in plug-in sales comes as the cost of petrol and diesel continues to creep upwards…
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45419705

    10

  • #
    Andrew McRae

    I’ve recently found a slice of Albanian history which might make a good analogy for modern global warming catastrophism.
    The bunker mentality and inwards facing paranoia of Enver Hoxha (the ˈhɔːdʒɑː is pronounced ho-ja).

    YT video “The 750,000 Bunkers of Albania.” (duration 0:10:41)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSEpkalRgvU

    The next statement is just his opinion of bad ideas, but he seems fairly well read given the range of other places and histories he’s covered in other videos. A choice quote from the above:

    Like any group which falsely imagines themselves as being threatened, the further the bad idea was followed the more the bad idea made sense.

    The analogy is “of course global warming is a catastrophic threat, look how many climate research boffins, insurance companies, and renewables manufacturers are saying so!” Cyclic reasoning. The defenses they are setting up in Australia to fight global [warming/sea level rise/fish hearing loss/etc×800] would do virtually nothing to stop the warming even if industry were the main cause. In the meantime spending a vast percentage of GDP on a climate assault will certainly lead towards ruin long before the invasion date arrives.

    Oddly enough, whenever the Point Of No Return looms large in the calendar it always gets pushed back further into the future to remain as a phantom menace, never quite out of sight, but never close enough to be finally unmasked.

    130

    • #
      TdeF

      So we’ve gone from immediate runaway tipping point day after tomorrow predictions to a future point of no return?
      The Climate Chicken Little approach. The sky will start falling soon enough. Just you wait. And wait.

      100

  • #
    Richard Ilfeld

    It is worth noting the politics generally operates to prevent prosperity. Many world class resources bases live in countries suffering varying degrees of economic stress: Australia with only minor dislocations, but Iran, Venezuela, and many others. You have to produce your resource, and have a reasonable respect for capital and the laws of contracts to deliver and profit from the resource. Business does this as a matter of course, and there are world markets for energy. Of course, receipts tend to be concentrated of course, and government will tax and redistribute the goodies. This is certainly tolerable at modest levels.

    When government takes charge, bad things usually happen.

    82

  • #
    pat

    one day soon…maybe…maybe not:

    6 Sept: RenewEconomy: Fair dinkum! Renewables and storage soon to be cheaper than existing coal plants
    by Giles Parkinson
    A new report from Australian and international researchers suggests there is no prospect for a new coal generator in Australia, and even existing coal generators are going to be challenged by the falling costs of renewables and storage.

    The report, “Implementing coal transitions: insights from case studies of major coal-consuming economies” (LINK) has been produced by an international consortium, including French think tank IDDRI, and researchers from the Australian National University, among others…

    Frank Jotzo, from the ANU, has some sobering news. The point where new wind and solar, backed by energy storage become cheaper than operating old coal plants is not far away – a conclusion more or less confirmed by AGL, with its plans for Liddell.
    “Cost reductions for renewable power have been tremendous and are continuing apace,” Jotzo says.
    “In Australia, there will come a point where it is cheaper to build new solar parks and wind farms firmed up by energy storage than to keep operating old coal plants…

    “We used to think that point would be decades away, now it may be coming quite soon. The transition could be fast and will bring many benefits. But we need to be prepared, and right now we are not.”…
    https://reneweconomy.com.au/fair-dinkum-renewables-and-storage-soon-to-be-cheaper-than-existing-coal-plants-51136/

    from the linked report:
    Acknowledgments This report is based on several individual research papers that have been published as working papers or are in preparation. These underlying papers include research by Stephanie Campbell, Paul Burke, Rohan Best and Lars Coenen, in addition to the authors of this report. Support by the Coal Transitions project managed by IDDRI and ClimateStrategies, with funding provided by the KR Foundation, is gratefully acknowledged. Frank Jotzo is at the Australian National University, Salim Mazouz at Natural Capital Economics and the Australian National University, John Wiseman at the University of Melbourne.

    10

  • #
    pat

    what the CAGW mob have in mind:

    5 Sept: ClimateChangeNews: Rich countries cannot be allowed to buy their way out of climate change
    By Asad Rehman, Meena Raman, Tom Goldtooth and Nnimmo Bassey
    (Asad Rehman is the executive director of War on Want, UK. Meena Raman is legal adviser and senior researcher at Third World Network. Tom Goldtooth is the executive director of Indigenous Environment Network. Nnimmo Bassey is the director of the Health of Mother Earth Foundation. This article was first published on Buzzflash)

    This week’s UN climate negotiations in Bangkok begin ***four months of climate summits that could make 2018 the year that world governments chart a path toward tackling climate change…
    Instead of holding northern economies accountable to change their production systems and consumption patterns, carbon markets allow for business as usual in the north, leaving the global south to offset the north’s emissions and endure the impacts.
    Such schemes are criticized for being rooted in the colonialism and environmental racism that is at the core of fossil fuel extraction…

    Despite the documented failures of carbon market schemes – in addition to the above, the schemes have failed from the EU and Canada, to California and Australia – big polluters are seeking to make these schemes the centrepiece of climate policy at upcoming milestones in Bangkok, San Francisco, and Katowice…

    Instead of permitting the very actors that fuelled the climate crisis to advance their own agenda, it is time governments embody true climate championship by embracing the meaningful solutions communities on the front lines of climate change already have. They are feasible, affordable and they work.

    They include a managed decline of fossil fuel production; pacts to keep fossil fuels in the ground in the global north immediately, with a phase out for the global south; finance and technology transfer; a total and just transition to community-led renewable energy; and a singular focus on keeping big polluters out of climate policymaking.
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/09/05/rich-countries-cannot-allowed-buy-way-climate-change/

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    Roy Hogue

    It’s truly a peculiar phenomenon that for most of my life I’ve been hearing that the world had only 10 or 20 years of those horrible fossil fuels left. Yet here we are with me at age 79 and we have reserves of something combustible for another X years and now you do too.

    The world is still going in spite of all the bologna sandwiches — you can read that as BS if you like — and still it doesn’t dawn on them that free enterprise provides incentive to invest in the search for more and maybe better of what we need. And if that same free enterprise was left free to solve other problems those problems might be solved or made less troublesome.

    My copy of California Political Review popped into my inbox this morning with the subject line, “Why is it so hard to get mentally ill Californians into treatment?”

    My reply to that was, “The state is run by the mentally ill and they think they’re normal.”

    Just imagine what could be done by cutting out all the bologna sandwiches. And a hamburger tastes better anyway.

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      Roy Hogue

      As far as I know, fracking hasn’t hurt anything in spite of the great fear mongering campaign.

      If anyone knows of a genuine fracking problem I’d appreciate knowing about it.

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    Jonesy

    California, after ONE season of below average rain is in drought, yet, Texas, a state more arid than the left coast has dams built over the last twenty years all at 72%? Que Prof Julius Sumner Miller…

    Australia, after a decade of taxing our petroleum production industry out of business to abase ourselves at the UN alter of climate obedience. Use that situation to underline a story of scarcity. Now we have the NT government about to crow after rescinding the frak madnes. NSW is also sitting on similar resources, tho not as giant, good enough for fifty years of domestic supply but are forbidden by the green socialists for using such a commodity.

    Note! Santos belled the cat…NO ONE WILL INVEST IN PETROLEUM INFRASTRUCTURE IN AUSTRALIA UNLESS THEY GET THE RESOURCE FOR THEMSELVES. Where are our domestic super funds to invest in bringing the likes of Beetaloo to a DOMESTIC market. Supply for 200 plus years is not as glamorous as a smash grab export over ten. This is the sign of a banana republic…follow the roads, rail lines and pipelines. All export! Nothing for us except impending poverty.

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      GD

      forbidden by the green socialists for using such a commodity

      Given that Greens only get 10% of the vote, how have they managed to stop all dam building?

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      • #

        anyone who is left of almost anyone on this blog is green socialist which means they are 98% of the population (oh there is also the silent majority who are not to the left)

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          Greg Cavanagh

          I’m pretty sure they’re referring to the Greens political party, not the social “green environmentalist” supporters within society.

          And I don’t think we’re that hard on everybody else who’s not on the blog. We know most people are just busy living their own lives.

          Besides; you’re trying to pigeon-hole us as being a uniform Right (which could be mostly true).

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            Kinky Keith

            Greg,

            I must admit I don’t like those too easy characterisations;

            left and the other one.

            It’s just an expression of laziness and dissembling on the part of those using the terms to stigmatize the object or steamroll the listener.

            Little is contributed to sensible discussion or analysis, and nothing of that nature is likely, given the narrow focus demanded by those in charge of the groupthink factory.

            Groupenfeuhrer AlGore has a tidy little sideline going where he educates the future leaders in the “truth” of man made Gorebul Warming.

            AlGore and the like would see themselves as Centrists whereas the actions he displays are in the extreme part of the spectrum.
            He could be characterized as either extreme Right or extreme Left: they are effectively the same grasping, controlling manipulator.

            Seeing the problem is the first step towards solving it.

            Meanwhile the “silent majority” are being bled by these social justice warriors for some reason or the next.

            KK

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          Jonesy

          GA…left and right is a construct of the socialist sphere. You cannot go from conservative or liberal conservative to the “right” and become a NAZI (national socialist) or fascist. Right wing socialists become fascists and nazis…and they all meet the left wing communist on the other side of the sphere as totalitarians. Become more conservative and you turn in on yourself and your own…separate from all society. The goal is to get everyone out of your life. Very communist? Not!

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        Hanrahan

        Given that Greens only get 10% of the vote, how have they managed to stop all dam building?

        Very successfully, with a little help from indiginies.

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    Rosco

    Coal, oil and gas will never be made redundant by nuclear.

    I am yet to see any electric combine harvester or other agricultural machine, any electric plane and the vast majority of the world’s shipping remains hydrocarbon fueled.

    Only greens think this doesn’t matter.

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      Plain Jane

      Rosco, if the greens get their way, there will not be any combine harvesters, agricultural machinery or shipping. Billions of people will die (because we are a cancer on the planet). And that will be the good outcome for the green ideals. This theory of green motives has a lot of explaining power for green actions. I never could understand the green antipathy to dams and hydro power, not until CAGW nonsense came along. They had to get the effective hydro power out the way or else hydro would have been logically promoted to reduce Co2, but it had already been demonised for no good reason. So if we continue to get politically overtaken by radical green nonsense and crash a prosperous society by implementing insane ideas while living amongst abundance, perhaps it is better that we get taken over by countries who will use resources, than that we insanely screw up a good civilization.

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      Chad

      Rosco, with existing technology, i agree….
      But, remember the only thing stopping shipping being Nuclear powered, id politics !
      Even with existing tech, (Nuk powered warships have been around for 50+ years) its feaible to power freightters, and any large ship .
      Future Tech, MSR, etc will accellerate that also
      Battery powered machines (trucks, loaders, etc) are being trialled in quarries in Europe. That tech could transfer to Ag equipment…if successful.
      But aircraft will be tricky…maybe liquid hydrogen fuelled with less speed and range ?

      P Jane..
      Hydro is a non starter for most of the planet, certainly mainland Au.
      Just not enough water and unsuitable geography to work it in realistic quantities.
      Even pumped hydro is an expensive red herring for an effective storage for a RE based grid.

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      Michael in Brisbane

      The Cutty Sark was launched after the Age of Steamships had commenced. It competed very well for a while until the Suez Canal cut the distances. No wind in the Canal, so no use to sailing ships that still had to ply the Cape of Good Hope route.

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    TdeF

    Very interesting development today. Front page of the Australian. Owners of a $1Million coal power generating plant are in the money. Having bought it for a tiny $1Million (but more than AGL’s $0 Liddell) they are making a fortune.

    Basically,despite the RET, when there is no sun and no wind and despite the legal penalties, people MUST buy coal power, so these owners can charge what they like without competition at the peaks. This is not how coal power plants normally run but when there is no gas, they rule.

    It is all so wrong and predicated on a plan to make coal power plants go bust. However needs must and the insanity in massive spikes in power prices is that you can make enough money on the spikes to pay for the operation.

    Why won’t the politicians who have interfered so greatly with our power prices admit they and their laws are the problem? There is plenty of coal power. We have to pay fortunes to buy it, thanks to gutless lawmakers who want marginal Green votes.

    Can I please buy Hazelwood for $1? I can make $150Million a year from government legislated and mandated gouging of electricity bills. Of course it’s morally reprehensible.

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      TdeF

      What they must have mastered, is how to charge much, much more during peaks. Total opportunism, but so is the RET.

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      TdeF

      “Vales Point had a bumper 2018 financial year, according to documents lodged with the corporate regulator and obtained by The Australian, with the asset making a strong $113m net profit from $505m revenue, compared with a $35m net loss from $382m revenue last year.”

      and better still

      “The Vales Point power station near Lake Macquarie, which supplies about 4 per cent of power for the national grid, could receive a $750m injection to ensure it runs until 2049, making it the nation’s last standing coal station, with the country’s other facilities due to be shuttered over the next 30 years.

      Nice word. Injection. Not gift. Not more public money. Here you have the NSW Liberal Government intervening to keep an absolutely necessary publicly built power station going for another 20 years.

      In Victoria, the Labor government tripled coal prices to make sure Hazelwood did not buy any more of our coal and had to quit despite huge investments in maintenance and clean power, despite the loss of jobs for an entire community.

      Of course we are probably paying for all the social dislcation, as at every other company forced to closed or paid to stay open because of Labor’s anti Coal and gas and firewood and petrol policies. Strangely, thanks to propaganda in Europe, diesel is not polluting and apparently does not produce CO2. According to VW, it does not even produce NO2.

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        Chad

        I wonder if anyone has factored in the effects of more RE forcing the coal plants to operate less hours in the future. ?
        That should automatically extend the operational life of those plants and reduce the maintenance costs ($/yr) way beyond their original design intentions
        If they drop the CF on the coal burners from 85-90% down to 40-50%, then we could have our coal plants still operating for 60+ years .:-)

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        • #
          Hanrahan

          I wonder if anyone has factored in the effects of more RE forcing the coal plants to operate less hours in the future. ?
          That should automatically extend the operational life……..

          It doesn’t work that way. They work best at 100% 24/7. Cooling and reheating shortens the life of the kiln.

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          Hanrahan

          I wonder if anyone has factored in the effects of more RE forcing the coal plants to operate less hours in the future. ?
          That should automatically extend the operational life……..

          It doesn’t work that way. They work best at 100% 24/7. Cooling and reheating shortens the life of the kiln.

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    TdeF

    Sure, as even business Greenie Alan Kohler noted, a coal power station is a bit like a factory. With maintenance, they can last forever like the axe with five new heads and four new handles.

    What Labor and the Liberals RET have done is ruin the benefit of all the sensible divestment of our essential services by legislating to control electricity at a Federal level, ostensibly to fix the environment. Literally though, it was a power grab. Now the place is a total mess.

    Consider that former essential State services are closing because they are economically unviable thanks to Federal mandated payments to producers of random and totally inadequate wind and solar. Totally irresponsible and basically legalized and enforced robbery.

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    Hanrahan

    Let’s assume that a high capacity gas pipe was built to the east coast, could an existing coal fired generator be converted to burn gas and be efficient? AFAIK “gas” today means an internal combustion turbine.

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    Chad

    Simple answer is yes..
    Torrens Island is NGas , sub critical steam generation..as opposed to OC or CC gas turbine of many other plants.
    I dont know what the implications on efficiency or emmissions is though ?

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    Chad

    They work best at 100% 24/7. Cooling and reheating shortens the life of the kiln.

    Yes, but i am thinking with a “multi unit” plant like Liddel, Loy Yang, etc, They could run only one or two units instead of all four, then rotate them on a 3-6 monthly basis, just as they do for normal maintenance, but with longer time shut down ?

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