JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Weekend Unthreaded

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Weekend Unthreaded, 9.0 out of 10 based on 22 ratings

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216 comments to Weekend Unthreaded

  • #
    Michael Reed

    I must say that when I saw the F word at Joe’s sight recently about the NEG and calling
    Turnbull a Pr—-k .I was a little miffed when my mild comments about (with no words
    like these) the idiots with reference to how bad coal is on their bums put into moderation,
    with the reason that I was a little outside the guidlines of the blog and I used Capital letters
    a little disheartening anyway.Gees if self “censoring “ like this needs to happen about
    a huge issue that faces Australia right now then certain “ correctness “ needs to be
    reviewed or else we definitely will all go down with Australia ‘s self imposed Titanic disaster
    thats just over the next wave .
    Cheers Mike Reed

    70

    • #

      Aloha! Agree! You can hear all that sort at any pub on a Sunday smash up! If you really want to see the vulgarity of internet anonymity then go onto any CNN facebook post or twitter post! The internet has done more to free the “inner hitler” than even hitler! lol! Truly there are some depraved humans in the blogosphere inspired by the depravity of political elitists! Once economies show signs of collapse then the real depravity will hit the streets! The internet has a “firewall” the streets don’t!

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    • #
      Annie

      One of the really good things here on Jo’s blog is that we don’t generally see bad language or rudeness to each other. We can usually discuss things without nastiness. I stopped visiting WUWT when things became very acid a while back although I’m now back again. The one site we support with our meagre offerings is this one and I would be very sad if it were to become as abusive and allow horrible language such as you can see on a few other sites. Breitbart is one such where I avoid looking at the comments much as I think some of them are pretty offensive. No thanks to that! There is enough ugliness around without pandering to it everywhere.
      I avoid modern novels and films (movies) because of the unecessary amount of ugly language in them. It’s just degrading.

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      • #
        Yonniestone

        I agree with you Annie even though I’m guilty of pushing the boundaries at times, anytime the mods have warned or guided me I’ll generally accept their views because its Jo’s blog and Jo’s rules.

        Some of the content used in comments on other platforms is in effect self degrading as once profanities become common use what’s to be used in place of something that was created to be a shock?, this then sets the precedent for those people to limit their vocabulary then their ability to learn and eventually fall into a self inflicted mental retardation that directly affects their place amongst others.

        Trust me coming from a blue collar background and once fallen into the lower echelons of society I’ve heard it all, its a complex combination of the human condition that makes us who we become but I still believe, except certain circumstances, deep down everyone knows right from wrong.

        Its how we act upon this fact that defines us.

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        • #
          • #
            Richard Ilfeld

            The ability to express oneself without profanity is not especially difficult, but takes effort. If you haven’t been around groups of young people for a while, you can find yourself in an interesting linguistic jungle. The first thing one notices is the limited vocabulary, with many words dong multiple duty, depending on intonation & context. Sort of an English Mandarin.
            You also find the certain types of profanity, as you might hear it, are fine within the group but scatological if directed
            towards the group from outside or towards the outside from the group.

            But more than the limited vocabulary, one might be disturbed by the limited knowledge. The people know a lot of stuff that isn’t true, and some that is, but all only in sound bites. Their memories seem to have capacity only for song lyrics. Any other knowledge is a tap, click or swipe away; accessed as needed and discarded.

            Being as old, as, say a dinosaur I was forced to memorize a great deal in school; speeches, poems, multiplication tables, Latin vocabulary, states, countries and capitals, our presidents (US), recitations given without notes before class, selected religious tracts, and more. Further, I was expected to read and comprehend a of of stuff, and reference it logically, with accurate paraphrasing order and context.

            Perhaps this was not all as benign as one remembers. There were moments of terror in the good old days, and incidents that recur when one wakes up in the middle of a bad dream. “Gallia est omni divisi in partes tres” holds a special horror for me, as does Der alte Barbarossa, der Kaiser Frederich, in untererdischen shlosse, hel er verzaubert sich…..
            But I have always thought that knowing stuff, and being able to think about stuff in context, and making relevant comments, is useful.

            Profanity is only useful if used so sparingly as to be rare and noteworthy; otherwise it is simple an emotive substitute for thought, as are most incendiary labels.

            It is relatively useless, and mostly harmless sprinkled into normal conversation; and perhaps indeed useful when one smashes one’s hand with a hammer. But, when engaging those young people, unable to talk about the world without Googling it, there are lessons there as well.

            “Do you think, if someone uses the N-word, they should lose their job?”
            “yes” “%^&^ Yes” (which I think is a little incongruous, but let it pass)
            “Do you all know what the N-word is?”
            “yes”
            “How do you know, did somebody use it?”
            “ah, er”
            “Is it in the music you listen to?”
            “Ah, er, Well yes, sometimes, but only certain times.”
            “So it’s OK sometimes? It’s OK to call a person the N-Word in a song?”
            “……”
            “Well, why don’t you sing me a few words of the song, so we can figure out why it’s OK?”
            “…”
            Finally one brave lad mumbled a few lyrics (his memory worked fine) and there were red face all around.

            The conversation went on. But generally there aren’t many places where bad language is not permitted, because language
            has lost its impact, except when weaponized is a groupthink moment. And on the internet, as in real life, it is emotive and a synthesis of emotions; love or hate (like or dislike). Profanity substitutes not only for expression, but for thought; as do labels equally dumb though not considered profane, ie racist. If you limit your range of expression to a few choice four letter words, this is likely reflective of the depth of your thinking.

            I’ll still reference excrement when the hammer misses, and privately label a political a %$^&# when they have hoof ‘n mouth, but profanity is rarely useful in public discourse if one actually has a point to make.

            Like all words, offensive words can be useful, even funny. But not usually in public conversations. I tinl the lack of profanity here goes hand in hand with the quality of thought.

            40

            • #
              Annie

              Nightmares from younger days! De Bello Gallico and The Aeneid and all that. I think I would have enjoyed Latin more without the endless memorisation required by our then Latin teacher. I was never any good at remembering swathes of Shakespeare and long poems; no problem in memorising doggerel, for some reason.
              I’m not totally averse to the odd use of, shall we say, colourful terminology, as when one knocks a large plastic tub of yoghurt off a high shelf in the ‘fridge onto a hard floor (yes, not unknown in this household), but there are times, places or ways of using it that can be offensive…that is where awareness comes in.

              00

      • #
        TdeF

        The same with comedy. Using offensive language is not funny and certainly not clever or intelligent.
        Otherwise all humour makes fun of someone or something. There is a fine difference. I found it very odd in the US orginally that you could not order black coffee or white bread before even the days of political correctness. That was just silly but I suppose it was simply a choice. They had no idea what a fortnight was either.

        I loved that Barry Humprhries refused to judge or accept any comedian who used bad language as a crutch. I make an exception perhaps Billy Connolly to whom offensive words (and there are always such words) were as normal as please and thank you and who loves scatalogical humour. It was part of growing up in Glasgow and woven into a story. There is such a subtle difference in tone.

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        • #
          Greebo

          Monty Python was able to use the F word in a funny way. Few others are their equal.

          20

        • #
          Annie

          Good for Barry Humphries. I would have enjoyed George Carlin more if there hadn’t such a heavy use of the ‘f’ word…that spoilt it for me so I don’t bother.

          00

    • #
      John F. Hultquist

      Michael @ #1: I was a little miffed

      On Friday I spent a few hours with several others, one a 6th grade teacher. She mentioned she heard a lot of silly jokes, many including the ‘f’ words fart, farting, and farter.

      No one in the group seemed “miffed” at her for the usage.
      Joanne’s site is a great place, and of course, we do hope it stays this way.

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  • #

    Aloha! There is a lot of evidence now that many of the global economies are starting to face severe headwinds. Global elite politicians scramble to keep their fame and power at all costs! Soon it will be difficult to keep corrupt heads above debt service much less forcing the global citizenry to pay for Global Warming tax initiatives. Capital flows leave such countries and from what I see the EU and Australia and Canada will be tops on the business and billionaire lists for “exit”! Here in the USA we had a community organizer turned corrupt career president run our US Debt up $9.2tril in his eight year reign that ended in 2017! Yet he still thinks he is president and campaigns globally for more power! So what did we as US citizens get for that huge sum? I contacted one of the few remaining honest economists left in America who is still employed to get a sense of that. John B Taylor prof Economics One at Stanford put together this chart showing that the last president bought us Americans next to nothing, but he did save the banks and GM! Here have a gink at his chart that compares the Reagan recovery in the 1980s versus the Obama recovery since 2009! Instead of more people working more dropped out of the workforce which is why unemployment dropped lower. Once you are out of the work force the BLS/DOL no longer counts you and you enter the infamous “non-participant” category that almost nobody in media counts anyway!

    http://johnbtaylorsblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/emp-pop-jan13.jpg

    This has been the constant unchanging career politics that has devastated the US economy as well as the global economies. Right now the Interior Minister of China is complaining to the US liberal owned media that our current president is trying to “reset global economies”! There is some truth to that because the current president was hired to disrupt the Global Warmist, the Open Borders and the Scorched Earth Economic policies of the past four decades. Lest my fellow Americans forget earlier this year we got a literal “wake up call” in Hawaii as to why voting for Democrat Socialists is dangerous to our future!

    https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/78/590x/secondary/hawaii-missile-alert-iphone-message-1193507.jpg

    Do nukes count as Global Warming? Lets just say nobody in Hawaii was arguing about Global Warming as we were too busy stuffing our kids into sewage pipes and there wasn’t an atheist left in the state! Without the past four decades of North Korean appeasement Kim Jong Un would have nothing to shoot over Japan and Hawaii! But make no mistake the “foreign policy experts” over the past four decades made sure the North Koreans could make nukes without any intervention. Yet somehow those same “experts” decry the abandonment of their “sure fire” past appeasement policies by the current administration.

    Politics has ruined all common sense as now corruption in the FBI, CIA and NSA is plain to see in America. Honest scientists are a rare sighting here! We graduate more sociologists and political scientists than any other country on earth! Nobody gets a degree and goes to Washington DC out of altruism. The fact that there still is a DNC and a CNN is proof that cognitive bias and the human condition is alive and well in America! No matter how many iPhones and iPads you can cram into your pockets the average modern human has no more common sense than their Neanderthal ancestors. Problem is now we don’t have enough dinosaurs to cull the herd! But I guess nukes will do for now!

    In the 1970s when I lived in Perth I was always fascinated as to why Aussies insisted on copying everything America did. Now I am more concerned Aussies will copy the EU! We in the US elected a “disrupter”. Now more than ever every country needs one! Kudos to Jo and David!

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  • #
    James

    Here in the United States it is getting hard and harder to find a General Practioner who owns his or her own practice. More and more they work for a clinic which is owned by a hospital.

    I have a big problem with this, as then the Doctor is responsible to his employer who has hired him more so than his patient. They are then under pressure to provide business to the hospital through referrals and testing which may often not be necessary. I have been lucky enough to find a Doctor with her own practice, who I like. I tried a hospital owned clinic, and they we most interested in generating business for the hospital they worked for, plus the Doctor resigned to work for another clinic.

    The other trend is the use of Nurse Practitioner as a primary care practitioner. I do not believe that you will get the same standard of care from someone who spent years carrying out orders from a Doctor, they are more likely to follow the latest treatment guidelines set by others, which may not be in the best interests of the patient. Transgender treatment of children comes to mind for example. Use of statin drugs is another example that comes to mind.

    Are GP’s managing to own the practices in Australia still or are they becoming employees?

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    • #
      Roy Hogue

      That’s exactly my complaint. I want the doctor to be working for me. And it’s getting harder to make that happen. I have stayed out of HMO organizations for that reason. At least when the doctor only gets paid if he sees me and I get results or I can go elsewhere, I have some assurance that there isn’t a rule standing between me and the care I need.

      I had such an experience recently in the local ER when someone made a decision without consulting me about it that would have cost me a lot of money out of pocket if my wife had not noticed what was going on.

      The worst of it is that they don’t tell you the diagnosis in person. They send you home with a package of paperwork in which the diagnosis is buried down a bout 2/3 of the first page. No chance to ask the doctor anything about it. No chance that he has the nerve to tell me to my face what he thinks my problem is. How do you remain confident in the medical profession under such circumstances?

      And the answer is, you worry about every thing they say and do because you can’t be confident in them anymore.

      100

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        I won’t even go into my nightmare with the nurses seeing me and doing endless work at the computer before I ever get to the doctor. It’s more important that the rules regarding the damned database be followed than that I see the MD, the person I came to see in the first place.

        We have big problems in medicine and I fear they will only get worse.

        60

      • #

        Stay away from doctors.
        Walk to the doctor’s office,
        then turn around and walk home.
        That’s what you really need –
        not more and more pills !
        Most doctors are drug pushers
        who treat symptoms — not the cause
        of the symptoms.

        Others cut off parts of
        your body and throw them away.

        Almost half of medical procedures
        have never been tested (double blind)
        and approved by anyone.

        That’s why so many tonsils were removed
        in the old days!

        In the US new medications get approved
        if they work better than sugar pills
        in two double blind tests.

        A new medication does not have to outperform
        existing generic, cheap medications for the
        same problem to be approved — it can cost
        ten times as much as aspirin, and have five times
        as many negative side effects, and not reduce pain
        any more than two aspirin, and still gets approved
        by the FDA.

        Big Pharma spends $2 for marketing, for every $1
        spend on R&D … and some activities binned to
        R&D spending are really marketing.

        I have watched too many elderly people suffer from
        side effects from taking 5 or 10 different medications
        at the same time — one old woman had 28 medications
        to take every day — she’s dead now.

        90

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          I used to away too. But at some point your body starts to betray you just from age if for no other reason. And then you need the doctors.

          I could say a lot from past and present experience but I’ll leave it at this. Medicine in the United States has become a giant bureaucracy in which one hand doesn’t communicate with another. Medicare rules, the computer database and not collaborating with another specialty have be come king. Leaving the patient to suck hind tit.

          I’ve had the “honor” of witnessing the decline and it’s not a pretty picture.

          It’s hard to trust anything like that, yet I have no choice, neither does anyone else. What the VA is today, so will all of medicine be all too soon if nothing is done to reverse the trend of more centralized control. The dollar is more important to regulators than the patient. And it’s been that way for a long time. And if you’re my age the dollar gets even more consideration.

          Some doctors still practice medicine and some practice Medicare.

          40

          • #
            Roy Hogue

            If you use Chrome beware the spellchecker. They have been messing with it again or at least with the US English version.

            10

        • #
          PADRE

          I agree with you. I recently had to be seen by a doctor before having a shingles vaccination. I ended up being weighed and measured and having a blood test. I did get the shingles jab. I take vitamin C and omega 3 to keep my wife happy; and try to persuade my mother-in-law to stick to gin rather than statins. Now that she is nearly 96, I think the statin regime has petered out anyway.

          50

    • #
      yarpos

      James, most GPs run their own practices and partnership clinics. Not aware of hospital owned clinics being a thing, certainly not a big thing atm.

      The culture is a bit different here re GPs with a mixture of bulk billing (paid for by federal medicare) and the more common additional payment arrangement (DR gets the Medicare and you pay a bit extra). Many clinics try to apply a bit of common sense/compassion and do a mixture , bulk billing those on pensions or obviously in need and standard charges for others.

      The dedicated bulk billing clinics tend to turn into factories as they try to churn through the patients as fast as possible to maximise $ per hour.

      20

      • #
        James

        It is s good thing that it has remained that way since I left Australia.

        There are also University run hospitals with clinics as well. University of Rochester (NY) comes to mind, they seem to be buying out Doctor owned clinics. Not good when they may well be doing a lot of drug trials for the pharmaceutical companies. A big conflict. Give us good results on our new drug trials, then get your Doctors to prescribe lots of them! And we will send you lots of money for another trial!

        20

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    Since the fires in California are probably worldwide news by now I thought I would stick in this article from National Geographic, no less.

    You will notice that Nat Geo is subtly pushing climate change as a root cause, even while they correctly identify some of the real problems such as more and more building into forested areas and of course, the drought we’ve had going on for years and plain old human carelessness.

    What they will not say is that the rain will come back, The weather does what it pleases, not what we want. It is usually hot in Southern California at this time of year and sometimes this hot. And climate change is supported by exactly zero real empirical evidence and has wasted by now, trillions of dollars to get us nothing. In the meantime an entire industry has been built around the fake news that the climate is about to reach a point where it’s irreversible and we all boil in our own juice.

    I suppose this is just my complaint about something I can’t do anything about. But I try to keep th real state of things in front of people if I have a chance. And this is such a chance. National Geographic used to document the world the way they found it. Somewhere along the way that mandate to simply document things the mandate changed to include passing judgment on the world they see.

    I have said this before and may say it again. Shame on them.

    201

    • #
      • #
        Roy Hogue

        Now that I’ve had some time to look just a couple of things come to mind.

        Katrina: Anyone foolish enough to think the federal government in the form of FEMA can be the first responder and save the day is fooling himself big time. They can’t be that because they are not local and have to move in people and supplies, maybe even equipment. It takes time to find out where they’re needed and what’s needed. So that’s why that didn’t work. Yet the were blamed for not immediately being there with a fix in hand for every problem The other problem is that New Orleans wasn’t prepared. Mayor Ray “Dumb Willie”()my name for him) stayed in his office and hid from his responsibility. They elected him to another term I think. It must have been in gratitude for all his help during the crisis. New Orleans is known as “The big Easy” for a reason. Things are loose and easy. Even when I was there in the ’70s the French Quarter was something I had never seen before. The State of Louisiana wasn’t prepared either. Yet both the state and city were the people who could have moved the soonest to help those in trouble.

        It didn’t help that Katrina wasn’t an extraordinary hurricane and if it hadn’t taken a “wrong” turn it wouldn’t have been such a big deal. But the news media are always hungry for sensationalism and New Orleans’ failure to be prepared was just what they needed. If George Bush had half the balls Donald Trump has he would have stood up and explained the truth. The levee gave way because the corps of engineers hadn’t done its job. FEMA may or may not be able to do what’s expected of it. Their mandate is awesomely broad and its hard to anticipate everything, much less the magnitude of something when it does happen.

        The fires in California: They are very bad this year and the drought and building up into forested areas have a big part of the blame for the property loss and now, loss of life too. And again, the media hunger for sensationalism plays a big part. Statistics will be ignored in favor of the sensational every time.

        30

    • #
      Geoffrey Williams

      Good summary Roy, but of course it’s not just National Geograhic that has been corrupted:
      There are so many other groups and institutions throughout our society that have changed; the media of newspapers, radio & tv, schools & universities, research, bussiness corporations & parliaments. And on and on everywhere you turn it is climate change and global warming disaster.
      GeoffW

      111

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        You’re right but — National Geographic has been a landmark publication since 1888, when they published their first issue. They are a name older than anyone else. Time magazine didn’t begin publishing until 1923.

        I used to pick up the copy of National Geographic whenever I saw it in a doctor’s waiting room, at the public library, anywhere. And it was once very common to see in waiting rooms. Their betrayal, if I may use that word, hurts more than any of the others.

        And there’s money in pandering to the politically correct opinion. It gets audience share which in turn gets advertising dollars.

        The National Geographic Channel is owned in part by 20th Century Fox, which tells all you need to know about why they can so easily turn advocate for certain publicly accepted opinions.

        The founders of the National Geographic Society are yelling at us from their graves, “No, no, no…” but no one is listening.

        70

        • #

          I’m with you, Roy. I once, with my wife, dined with the Senior Associate Editor, Frank Shor. He told us that National Geographic were to do a piece on New Zealand’s South Island, and sure enough this came about and there was a full page photo of my brother in the January 1972 edition.

          Like you, I always made a beeline for the magazine if I saw it in a waiting room or on someone’s coffee table, and was frequently admonished, if visiting, by my wife to put it down and pay attention to my hosts! Not now, though. It has turned into a propaganda rag for the CAGW alarmists and any decent articles within it are neutralised by the global warming garbage and it is no longer worth picking up.

          Shame!

          20

    • #
      yarpos

      True. I live in the middle of an area devasted by bushfires in 2009. Over a million acres destroyed and 100s killed and injured. Looking out my window now the landscape is lush and green and its been raining on and off for 12 hours (again, its a wet winter)

      20

      • #
        Annie

        It was snowing heavily in Marysville this morning and the road to Lake Mountain was closed at about 1045. Vehicles were coming back down covered with snow. The heaviest fall was during the Communion at church; our organist started to play ‘In the bleak midwinter’! ;)
        The paddocks around are very wet indeed and I had glimpses of the snow on the ranges.

        31

        • #
          Annie

          In those fires 173 died and 34 were from Marysville. With all this rain again there will be massive growth so let’s hope the summer won’t be too unkind. We need to prepare as best we can though. Landcare has left most of the middle of our village a scruffy mess though and probably highly flammable. I’m not at all impressed by their activities.

          71

    • #
      Latus Dextro

      Of tremendous and relevant interest to many here, we have often highlighted the outrageous ideological hijacking of sound forest management plans across the West, most notably in Australia, America, Canada and New Zealand. The Green bureaucrats should face courts of law for their instigation of wanton, senseless destruction of life and property. They do it with ‘double benefit’ in mind. Block sound forest management, create more fires and mayhem, promoting the catastrophic “climate change” narrative.

      Thankfully, this ideological scourge is no longer under the radar, though it obviously remains as such with the globalist eco-Marxist MSM.

      Watch Secretary of the Interior Ryan Zinke specifically address this problem together with POTUS DJT. The Administration of POTUS DJT is very well aware and now taking critical action against.

      Watch here. Sec. Ryan Zinke addresses the problem from 12:02

      20

      • #
        Annie

        I’ll have a proper look later. Our grandson is here for the half-term, or whatever it is. He and Grandad are playing chess but I need quiet to concentrate.
        I’ll be delighted if President Trump addresses the greenie sabotage of correct forest management and others follow; not before time. Perhaps those who have suffered from the effects of bushfires that were exacerbated by lack of proper undergrowth clearance should sue for all their losses and distress.

        30

  • #
    Another Ian

    “Remember when they told us coral bleaching was a sure result of recent man-made global warming? Never mind.”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/08/17/remember-when-they-told-us-coral-bleaching-was-a-sure-result-of-recent-man-made-global-warming-never-mind/

    61

  • #
    Mark M

    The “mind-bending, gob-smacking” difference between climate and weather in Australia.

    Climate

    August 16, 2018: Scientists ‘gobsmacked’ by winter fires

    Environmental change academic David Bowman said global warming meant the northern and southern hemisphere fire seasons were overlapping, which was stretching global firefighting resources.

    “We’re seeing something which is unusual in the extreme,” he said. “It’s worrying, it’s mind-bending.”

    https://www.watoday.com.au/national/nsw/gobsmacked-500-firefighters-battle-bushfires-in-nsw-20180816-p4zxqa.html

    In a Facebook post, NSW RFS Commissioner Shane Fitzsimmons lamented so many fires were burning “ … and it’s still winter”.

    Weather

    January 31, 2018: Summer in Australia… snow in Tasmania

    “The last time we had a significant snowfall that was out the season it was the 3 December and we probably had eight inches.

    “It’s still only January!

    https://www.watoday.com.au/national/nsw/gobsmacked-500-firefighters-battle-bushfires-in-nsw-20180816-p4zxqa.html

    > The “mind-bending, gob-smacking” difference between science and climate cults in Australia.

    Science History

    First Fleet: ”New Year’s Day 1788 was greeted by another storm and very cold weather around Tasmania, with reports of snow.”
    http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2010/09/30/3026104.htm

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  • #
    Dennis

    Now is the moment, whatever you want ask Chairman Mal.

    10

    • #
      PeterS

      I’m asking him to resign. Not a chance he will do it of course. He is too arrogant for that. He rather sink the LNP into oblivion before he admits it’s all his fault. The party has to decide very soon whether they want to keep him on as their leader and face the real prospect of losing the next two election, or cut their losses and run like hell from him and appoint a leader with the integrity and honesty to turn things around and run like hell from the renewables nonsense. They can’t have it both ways. Either Turnbull goes now or renewables go now. We all know anyway the two are like twins.

      150

  • #
    David Maddison

    As the planet continues to melt, strangely the Perisher ski resort in NSW, Australia seems to be exempt: Quote:

    Perisher has announced today that it is extending its season through to Sunday 7 October!!

    Thats right, this means you’ll be skiing & boarding right into October! Over a metre of snow has fallen in August already, and there is more snow in the forecast!

    141

    • #
      PeterS

      Worse than that some of the left are proclaiming that as a result of the fires here and in the US the whole world is now burning. Well if that were the case why are we bothering to reduce our emissions and letting everyone else in the world continue to build hundreds of coal fired power stations as though there is a world-wide campaign to focus on coal as the main means of power production? Are we supposed to single-handedly save the planet? We couldn’t do that even if we closed up every business and shot every man, woman, child and animal in Australia. So what’s the point of the RET scheme and Paris Agreement other than to commit economic suicide?

      150

      • #
        Dennis

        Fire is best served by limiting or banning back burning operations.

        Even better lock up vast areas of land, including now former pastoral land, and create National Parks to preserve them for future generations.

        78

        • #
          Just Thinkin'

          Yeah mate,

          Just let the fuel build up….
          That sounds like a great idea…

          I seem to remember, a few years ago now, that they
          kept the cattle etc out of Kosciusko national park.
          They used to keep the undergrowth down…..

          Not any more…another huge fire waiting to happen…

          controlled back-burns are the way to go…during the right time of the year…

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          • #
            Dennis

            Snowy Mountains now National Park where native grasslands attracted cattlemen to graze their cattle in summer commencing in the 1800s. There are huts dotted all over the area.

            Grazing was prohibited a decade or so ago approximately and weeds started taking over, blackberry bushes too. For a short time grazing was allowed again, ending when the present Labor Government took office in Victoria.

            Friends who regularly ride Horses in the high country and one who is a volunteer bushfire fighter have told me that the increasing rubbish is perfect fuel for very hot wild fires. The Australian Aborigines regularly set fire based on their traditional burning times to encourage native grass growth making hunting for food and travel less difficult.

            There are many such National Park areas around Australia, when asked to create more PM Abbott, a volunteer bushfire fighter of many years experience, replied that there are too many already and insufficient funds to maintain them.

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              mikewaite

              The other day in our local library in Hale, Cheshire, I came across a general reader’s science book which quoted a scientist who was praising the activities of the
              Native Australians who used what he called “firestick farming” to regulate the growth of brush and improve grazing for their prey. His name : Tim Flannery .

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          PeterS

          Trees tend to grow :-) So if we don’t back burn nature will do it for us but in a much more devastating manner. Of course we could expand our timber industry and chop down far more trees in all the forests. That of course won’t go down well with most people, least of all the Greenies. So governments are in a no-win situation. THat’s why we end up having large bush fires.

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          Annie

          I did assume a sarc tag there.

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          Sceptical Sam

          You had me there for a moment Dennis.

          I had to read your comment a couple of times. I now get it, and agree.

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        • #
          Russell

          Lots of references to back burning in this thread when the contributors actually mean fuel reduction burning. Back burning is what fire fighters do when trying to contain a bushfire – they start a fire ahead of the firefront, taking advantage of the updraft from the main fire to cause the back burn to burn back towards the main firefront and reduce or eliminate fuel before the firefront gets that far.

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        • #
          Latus Dextro

          Dennis, did you leave the /sarc tag off or were you engaging as an arsonist?
          The results of such management practices you suggest has resulted in devastation, improper management and massive conflagrations leading to needless and preventable death.
          Thankfully, the US Secretary of the Interior is currently aware of the disastrous consequences of this element of insane Green ideology and is setting about addressing and correcting it.
          See post above #4.4

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          Dennis

          I should have added the “sarcasm” tag

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    • #
      David Maddison

      https://electroverse.net/record-breaking-snowfall-prompts-australias-resorts-to-extend-their-season/

      Quote:

      Australia’s ski resorts have been enjoying record-breaking snowfall this winter, prompting an extension to their season.

      See link for rest.

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      angry

      cool……..

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    David Maddison

    https://electroverse.net/earliest-snowfall-on-record-covers-hokkaido-mountain/

    Quote:

    EARLIEST SNOWFALL ON RECORD COVERS HOKKAIDO MOUNTAIN
    AUGUST 17, 2018 CAP ALLON

    Mount Kurodake in the town of Kamikawa, the northernmost prefecture of Hokkaido, had its first snow of the season on Aug 17, the earliest snowfall since records began in 1974.

    The dusting upon the 1,984-meter-high mountain among the Daisetsuzan Volcanic Group was more than a month earlier than the average of Sept 18.

    The previous earliest snowfall was Aug 21, 2002.

    According to the Japan Meteorological Agency’s Sapporo Regional Headquarters, a mass of chilly air swept over Hokkaido following the passage of a low pressure system.

    During what has been dubbed ‘Japan’s hottest summer ever,’ winter made a surprise appearance in the middle of August with temperatures plummeting to 7C below average in some places.

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      Greg in NZ

      All in the 3rd week of August 2018 ~ freezing snow blizzards in Lesotho / South Africa, freezing snow blizzards in VIC / NSW Australia, NZ’s lapping up calm sunshine after the last freezing snow blizzard and before the next one, freezing snow blizzards in South America’s Chilean and Argentine mountains, and Antarctica’s one big continuous freezing snow blizzard anyway.

      Therefore, I conclude, the much vaunted Catastrophic Anthropogenic GLOBAL Warming Klimate Khange Tip-Truck theory of chaos or whatever, fails, as the southern hemisphere this winter has completely missed out on the warm summer weather recently enjoyed in northern Europe, the UK, and parts of the USA. Oops – this just in off the Kayak Express Wire: http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php – the temperature at the North Pole has dropped back down to 0˚C freezing and, bang on time like clockwork, the Arctic ‘summer’ is over. In a yearly event which still evades the best minds in climate science [sic], Earth has reached its tipping point and is slowly coming back again… naturally.

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  • #
    David Maddison

    A friend’s 10 year old girl came home terrified the other night and had nightmares. They had been teaching her about “climate change” and the imminent death of the world. And this was in one of the top private schools in Melbourne.

    Does anyone know of resources suitable for a ten year old that can allay her fears?

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      David Maddison

      Incidentally I have already purchased for the girl Ian Plimer’s book “How to Get Expelled from School: A Guide to Climate Change for Pupils, Parents and Punters”.

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      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        David, in these sorts of cases you need to name the school.

        Name and shame.

        So, what school was it?

        And what are the annual fees?

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      PeterS

      Well given the rest of the world is building more and more coal fired power stations tell her to question the teacher as to why is there a contradiction between what they are teaching at school and what the rest of the world is practising. Also explain that if the teacher is right then whatever we do won’t make a difference and so we are doomed but if the teacher is wrong then the rest of the world will survive economically while Australia crashes and burns and so we are still doomed. Then get her to ask the teacher why don’t we join the rest of the world at least to take the chance we can survive instead of guaranteeing we will crash and burn. Perhaps the teacher can then turn his/her brain on and come to reality and start having nightmares along with the child. After all why pretend things will be OK when they clearly will not as long as Australia are lead by people like Turnbull and soon Shorten? Better to face reality than to pretend things are going to be OK when clearly they will not here in Australia. She won’t be so surprised when the crash and burn e3entuates, and she will be better prepared. Those who continue to ignore the issues, which is the majority will have real nightmares to face not just in their dreams but in reality.

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      RickWill

      Does she believe in Santa Claus. That is an enjoyable fiction perpetuated by retailers to get adults to happily part with their money.

      Climate Change is a nasty fiction perpetuated by governments, government funded academics and government funded media to get unhappy adults to part with their money.

      If she understands that Santa Claus is fictitious then you have a starting place. When I was 10 I was told that if I was not “good” I would not get to heaven when I died. Climate Change is a similar religious fantasy. Teachers are employed by government to sell the government message, whether it is factual or fantasy.

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        PeterS

        I was going to include Santa Claus in my response but decided to remove it. Allow some fantasies to be maintained as long as they don’t end up crashing and burning our economy. I hardly think the temporary belief in Santa Claus by children, which by the way is based on a real person Saint Nicholas but mostly for the wrong reasons, is cause for alarm. But the belief in the renewables nonsense by adults, such as teachers, is a futile attempt to save the world from non-existent runaway global warming is not only foolish, it’s aiding and abetting a plan to commit economic suicide given Australia is the only country that has decided to pursue that path in practice, while the rest of the world is ignoring the Paris Agreement and instead building more and more coal fired power stations. There are many nations who are building far more such plants than all the existing ones we currently have. So closing down all our coal fired power plants will make absolutely zero difference to the climate yet send our economy over the cliff. In essence anyone who teaches that we should close down even just one of our coal fired power stations is in effect an economic terrorist, and as such should be imprisoned.

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      angry

      That is CHILD ABUSE !

      I would be “dealing with that teacher”…….

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      Kinky Keith

      There was a situation a few years ago where a family in South America, I think, couldn’t face the prospect of death by global warming, so they did themselves in.

      The power of the media.

      444

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      Bobl

      Write to the teacher, ask why a theory is being treated as fact and why the outcomes are being portrayed as negative when even the ipcc says the outcomes are positive for up to 2 degrees of warming. Ask why they accept the institutional traumatisation of children is OK in their school. Ask why the alternate views are not being put and the science examined especially the carbon cycle.

      I wrote to my sons science master at his high school and put some of the real math and science asking them to refute it. Apparently it created a real stir because my math held up, they had never bothered to question the dogma until I fed them the math.

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        Andrew McRae

        > ask why a theory is being treated as fact

        That will get you laughed out of the room. It’s unscientific use of the terminology. Scientific theories are treated as fact every day of the week without problems.
        Ask why a hypothesis is being treated as fact.

        That may sound like a nitpick, but they will seize on any opportunity to justify ridiculing or ignoring David’s letter.

        The rush to set the hypothetical in concrete is not so surprising. The cart being put before the horse has a very long track record in the IPCC. Some key dates:

        • June 1988 – At the 40th Session of the WMO Executive Council they decided on the establishment of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, with one of its four main goals being:

        Identification of uncertainties and gaps in our present knowledge with regard to climate changes and its potential impacts, and preparation of a plan of action over the short- term in filling these gaps;

        November 1989 – UK Prime Minister already tells the United Nations General Assembly that:

        We can’t just do nothing. But the measures we take must be based on sound scientific analysis of the effect of the different gases and the ways in which these can be reduced. In the past there has been a tendency to solve one problem at the expense of making others worse.
        The United Kingdom therefore proposes that we prolong the role of the Inter-governmental Panel on Climate Change after it submits its report next year, so that it can provide an authoritative scientific base for the negotiation of this and other protocols.

        • August 1990 – First Assessment Report of the IPCC is published, finding in part:

        The size of this warming is broadly consistent with predictions of climate models, but it is also of the same magnitude as natural climate variability. Thus the observed increase could be largely due to this natural variability

        • June 1992 – The chairman of the Rio Earth Summit declares in the opening speech of the event:

        Taxes on polluting products or activities, like the CO2 taxes now being levied or proposed by a number of countries, could also be devoted to financing of international environment and development measures. While none of these promising measures may be ripe for definitive action at this Conference, I would urge the Conference to put them on the priority agenda for the early post-Rio period.

        Amazing how the need for action, enforcement, and taxes was being emphasised at the very highest levels before the first IPCC report had even been published, and the march of the politics is entirely uninterrupted by the total lack of scientific certainty in there being any problem at all to solve. If this sort of confidence was occurring today you might forgive it as being on safe ground, but these bold statements were being made before another $90 billion dollars had been spent on 30 years of climate science research.

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  • #
    Robber

    A Magic Pudding Cooked Up by the Energy Security Board.
    How to get wholesale electricity prices to drop from $85/Mwhr in 2017/18 to $49/Mwhr in 2020//21, back to where they were in 2015/16 before Hazelwood closed, with no new policies.
    Firstly add more wind/solar, from 17.5 TWhr to 44.4 TWhr, that’s 5,000 MW on average in a market of 24,000 MW. Those investments are in the pipeline.
    Now reduce that nasty black coal from 103.8 TWhr to 93.7 TWhr. No change required in brown coal (33 TWhr) or hydro (14 TWhr).
    And finally, slash the addition of high priced natural gas from 18.2 TWhr to just 4.7 TWhr.
    Now please note carefully the following instructions when preparing this dish:
    – Wait for international coal prices to drop from $120/tonne to $60/tonne.
    – The wholesale electricity cost for market customers is the cost of spot market purchases plus the cost of wholesale contracts. Increased contracting lowers projected wholesale spot prices.
    – Get your retailer to enter into dispatchable contracts so that the use of high spot prices for natural gas is slashed, and use far less gas for morning and evening peak demand. (perhaps that’s the magic?)

    Just follow this recipe, and your household electricity bill will be $467.21 lower in 20/21 compared to what you paid in 2017/18.

    For further details, see modelling assumptions by the Energy Security Board . (See xlxs spreadsheet file at bottom of page) and comment #32 on previous blog.

    Enjoy this magic pudding without signing up for the National Energy Guarantee, brought to you by the ESB. What’s all the fuss about?

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      PeterS

      Looks like a recipe to bankrupt the nation. Of course it would be much simpler just to vote for Shorten to achieve the same end.

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      RickWill

      Labor in Victoria is upping the “saving” if elected.

      HOW TO SAVE $890 ON POWER BILLS NEXT YEAR
      VICTORIANS will save hundreds a year on their power bills under a $1.2 billion Andrews Government plan to install solar panels on 650,000 homes. Here’s how it’ll work.

      .

      The Herald Sun story is paywalled.

      If the house is valued at more than $3M or the occupiers’ income exceeds $180k then they miss out. The government pays the full cost up front then a period to repay half. This adds about 3GW of intermittency so will threaten another brown coal station that gets replaced with high cost gas and the renters are left with the bill. It will be a disaster for the residential and business renters.

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        PeterS

        Of course they ignore the hidden costs and the on-going, repair and replacement costs. In the long run the consumer will end up paying a lot more as they push for more and more renewables while they close down our coal fired power stations one by one. It will be an interesting litmus test as to whether Victorians are foolish enough to fall for this. If they do it will be a signal for Shorten to follow suit and win by a landslide regardless of whether Turnbull is still PM or not.

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        angry

        Complete BS !

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        David Maddison

        Like all these thought bubbles from politicians I suppose there has been no proper engineering or economic analysis.

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  • #
    Hanrahan

    California Wildfires through the eyes of a local.

    Juan is an airlines pilot who has an interesting blog. He has done a long series on the Oroville Dam. He is generally a voice of reason.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajPpP3vbD5c

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    • #
      PeterS

      He must be the only person with a brain in that state. So the recent fires are simply nature’s way to handle overgrowth and has nothing to do with runaway global warming. Hang on a minute! What runaway global warming? It hasn’t happened. The evidence is clear. So all those who claim the fires are due to global warming are either deliberately telling lies or are ignorant of the facts.

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    • #

      Aloha! There needs to be a class action lawsuit brought by landowners and homeowners against all enviro-green organisations who file lawsuits to prevent proper forest management. What you will find as I have found is that a lot of these organisations are funded by Silicon Valley billionaires and types like Soros. There is your deep pockets! Kind of like the lawsuit against the tobacco industry where their industry was neutered in the USA so they went to Asia to make up for their lost US revenues. There is no accountability in the USA. Once the first successful class action is won the industry then faces the reality of moving out of politics and into more obscurity or filing bankruptcy! There is this global phenom whereby the minority now rules the majority! Only corrupt politics made that possible. That corruption spans all parties as there is no career politician who would not sell their soul to get an extra vote! Term limits!

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    TdeF

    Still cannot find the actual document for signature by the State Governemnt. Too many layers of self congratulatory waffle about sustainability and how the present system of electricity distribution is not viable and our international obligations. So many committees and blaming everyone else for price rises except government interference, the RET and now ‘Carbon offsets’ are in play. Of course wind and solar is now cheap and pervasive and no one needs coal anymore, except all of Australia. The link

    Ulimately it gets down to the actual document which the States have to sign and it is presumably changing continually. How can you not get the impression we are being railroaded and the core truth buried in waffle. Peta Credlin in the Herald Sun this morning also labels Turnbull as the best Labor PM ever. He is absolutely determined to bring in his Emissions Intensity scheme, regardless of what the people of Australia might want. He has no mandate to do that. Like any lawyer, if you can get away with it, it must be legal.

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      Dennis

      I am also very concerned about the attempt to legislate Australian law to reinforce the Paris Agreement/Treaty ratification which is only enforceable if an Australian Government permits it.

      UN treaties were established by Communist & Labor Attorney General Evatt who presented the plan to the UN officials in the 1950s as a way around constitutions of member nations. Creating laws to reinforce treaties to bind future governments is very worrying.

      The inevitability of gradualness: Fabian Society UK

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        TdeF

        Peta Credlin made it clear in the Herald Sun this morning that Tony Abbott added a condition to the ‘Paris Agreement’ that Australia could withdraw if anyone else did. He was then removed as PM and Malcolm signed the agreement the day after the US elected Donald Trump on a platform of withdrawing immediately, as he did. So Malcolm was determined to do the exact opposite. Now he blames Abbott for signing, a clear indication that that truth means nothing to Turnbull. He has a lawyer’s view of the truth.

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          Dennis

          http://www.stopturnbull.com

          The history timeline begins in high school

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            Sceptical Sam

            The Liberal Party needs to chuck manipulative Malcolm out. Get Dutton or Abbott into the PM’s job.

            The sooner they do it, the sooner they can re-establish their credentials in the eyes of the electorate.

            Labor is on the nose. Now’s the time. Delay and they’re doomed to years on the backbench. Delay and Australia is doomed to at least six years of economic misery.

            Sack Turnbull today.

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        Annie

        Surely bad law can be amended in the future and the resulting damage from those laws can be rectified? I don’t see that non-mandated legislation by those who presume to ignore the electorate and commonsense cannot be overturned in the future.

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          TdeF

          Of course. However those which change the interpretation of the constitution cannot and that is why all the states have to agree, a rare event.

          For example when the right to Sales Tax was taken away from the States and given to the Federal government, it allowed abuse of the system, committees who decided that Western Australians were simply lucky and not hard working and their money should be given to South Australians who had rejected mining. I cannot see that ever reverting. It ruined a basic principle of Federation that no state should be treated unfairly. That is essential. The Federal government gets around the constitution by using a clause which allows one off gifts. Turnbull is trying effectively to circumvent the consitution to allow him to pass his law. As we have not been given a copy of what the states are going to sign (one our behalf) or even what the law will be (only Labor and Green MPs get that), I do not know what he is doing, but the secrecy indicates he is changing our constitutional rights with the full support of Labor.

          The Americans are much more protective of their constitution. We also have a brake in the oversight by the independent Governor General. Gough Whitlam tried to get around that by appointing John Kerr. That didn’t work. Malcolm Turnbull was head of the movement to get rid of the Governor General as we wanted an ‘Australian head of state’. The last time I looked, the Governor General was an Australian. That didn’t work. Now the talk is that Turnbull will appoint Julie Bishop! That’s outrageous as she is so closely tied to Turnbull, the major conspirator as minister and Deputy leader in bring down the Prime Miniser, Tony Abbott and again Deputy Party leader. It shows that if he cannot get rid of the Governor General, he can circumvent oversight. Shorten was even smarter. He married the Governor General’s daughter.

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      Aloha! Everything has a cycle. One good thing that came out of Silicone Valley is the Silicon Valley Toxics Coalition. If liberals truly cared about the exploitation of the Earth and the Third World tribal societies then they would have abandoned solar from the start. The first solar panel was produced by Bell Labs in the USA in 1953. There is a reason that invention never went anywhere in the USA for 40 years until politicians saw a useful idiot!If you own a solar panel then reconsider your government appointed status as a “do gooder”! In reality mining happens and humans are abused! http://www.solarscorecard.com/2015/2015-SVTC-Solar-Scorecard.pdf

      As to the US Constitution and why Americans take it more serious than Commonwealthers! We actually went to war against the British Empire so we had more at stake. This is why we take our second amendment more serious than the Commonwealth! The rest of the world had their independence handed to them. Add to the fact the US had a Civil War where more Americans died than in the Brit War! Then WW1 and WW2 and I fear WW3 will emanate from the EU yet again!

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  • #

    I would like to invite people to read my latest 2 posts. They are:

    1) Warming in the USA since 1900 (using NOAA’s new ClimDiv temperature series).
    With a focus on the periods:
    a) 1900 to 1950
    b) 1930 to 1980
    c) 1970 to 2018
    https://agree-to-disagree.com/usa-warming

    2) Warming using Tavg, Tmin, and Tmax (also using NOAA’s new ClimDiv temperature series).
    Will humans die from high afternoon temperatures (death by Tmax), before they get to enjoy mild nights (pampering by Tmin) ?
    This post also looks at warming in the USA, but from a different perspective. Are Tmin and Tmax warming at the same rate as Tavg?
    https://agree-to-disagree.com/tavg-tmin-tmax-warming

    Warning – you will find many things on the global warming contour maps, and line graphs, to support your views on global warming. But you will probably also find some things that challenge your views.

    If anybody wants help understanding how global warming contour maps work, then read the article on Robot-Train contour maps.

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    • #
      A C Osborn

      Have you used ClimDiv final values or Raw data?

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    • #

      Aloha! I generally automatically discard any geologic or enviro analysis that uses less than 5,000 year historical data! If there was a planet in the universe that had a 120 year cycle then you might be onto something!

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      • #

        Why should there not be these blips or mini-warmings in the brief substantial warming of an interglacial? It is not as warm now as eight thousand years ago and there is reason to doubt it is as warm now as a thousand years ago. We are warmer than three hundred years ago, and there may be an upward trend discernible since the end of the 1970s. How can this matter?

        The present interglacial is dead ordinary, and there is nothing to indicate that temps will not soon (within a few millennia) fall and continue to fall till glaciation is again reached. It’s been going on like that for a few million years: constant fluctuation from a low point, with little variations along the way. Humans have been around through the mostly lower temps of the late Quaternary, civilisations have not. All we know of complex and settled human societies is contained within a few thousand years of warmer climate such as one gets every 120 thousand years (give or take).

        The beat-up requires us to look at climate either from too close or too far, to look at the very recent or very remote. If we stand back just far enough to see the fluctuations since a bit before the emergence of modern humans, we see the real picture. None of this is novel or controversial, at least in outline.

        Those who are most fretful about climate change don’t seem to believe in climate change, though all the evidence of constant, rapid and radical change is laid before them. We are allowed to believe in remote change and present change, but a snapshot of the last few thousand years is considered to be indecent and not fit for viewing. The climate of the late Quaternary and of the Holocene is treated like a filthy postcard.

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          Kinky Keith

          As an example of the selective exclusion of real climate: see levels have fallen 1200 mm in the last 2000 years since the time of Christ.

          So much for rising sea levels.

          It will have to go up by 1.2 m to get back to where we were 2000 years ago.

          444 T

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  • #
    Graeme No.3

    A senior Federal public servant once claimed – after he’d retired – that most Prime Ministers wound up insane. I am wondering if this is the explanation for Turnbull’s recent behaviour.
    Consider:
    His hand picked choice for Chief Scientist produces a report making it very plain that renewables are more expensive than conventional sources.
    The Chief Scientist – a believer in man made climate change – then points out that it would make no difference if Australia cut CO2 emissions or not.
    There is also overwhelming evidence that very, very few countries intend reducing CO2 emissions and many are intending to boost emissions on a scale which dwarfs Australia’s contribution.
    Turnbull then decides that CO2 reductions are a high priority and that replacing some of the cheapest way of electricity generation with a more expensive way, will somehow result in a drop in the cost to the ordinary voter.
    He then comes up with a complicated plan which he expects people (including his Party) to accept without seeing it.
    It is difficult (for me) to see any other explanation, and so feel that his removal from office is necessary.

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    • #
      Dennis

      A zealot who has been plotting all of his adult life with globalism in the forefront of his mind.

      Diagnosed by Dr Brendan Nelson to be suffering from narcissism.

      I agree with you Graeme.

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      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        I’ve said it before.

        Muddleheaded Malcolm is in need of a mental health plan.

        The Liberals should boot him out today. Sometime this week at the outside, if they a re to stop the economic destruction of Australia from the madness Malcolm proposes to visit on us.

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      • #
        Graeme No.3

        Dennis:

        See The Australian and the latest article by Graham Richardson. He calls time on Turnbull.

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  • #
    Dennis

    Opposition Leader Shorten revealed to media that he had been handed a copy of the draft legislation for an NEG by Prime Minister Turnbull.

    Why did Shorten make that public?

    Since then a Labor Opposition Spokesman, Butler, has commented that the legislation meets with Labor approval especially the emissions legal position arising from the legislation which enables governments to increase emissions reduction target without consultation with parliament.

    Tony Abbott and others have expressed their concerns about the proposed NEG legislation enabling a future Labor government to do as they please.

    Yet Shorten exposed Turnbull to his colleagues and the voting public?

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    • #
      PeterS

      Let’s cut to the chase. Turnbull always was and always will be a CAGW alarmist. So he is negotiating with the ALP+Greens in preparation of when Shorten becomes PM to allow them to enact a 50% renewable target with the stroke of a pen.

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      • #
        Dennis

        Yes, but why did Shorten make the back room arrangement public?

        40

        • #
          Yonniestone

          Perhaps a rare show of courage to openly declare the Turbull Libs and Labor/Greens are one of the same and see how the public reacts?

          They consider the public to be sheep and its voting patterns verify this perception.

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          • #
            Dennis

            Maybe, but Shorten is not stupid and would have been well aware that public disclosure would be like throwing a fire bomb into the government ranks.

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        • #
          PeterS

          Was it Shorten or someone else in the ALP? Whoever it was perhaps he couldn’t resist the temptation to embarrass Turnbull the way he did. Another possible reason is it was planned by Turnbull to enrage and expose those in the LNP who hate him the most and somehow deal with them later to block any attempt to replace him before they even started. Whatever the reason what Turnbull did is perhaps one the biggest betrayal of any political leader in the history of Australian politics. The fact that he is still the leader is proof the LNP has lost all credibility on one side and any amount of courage on the other to depose him, at least for now. His actions since is a clear indication that he’s trying to cover his tracks and withstand the storm by telling more fibs about the NEG and what his intentions are about his energy policy. He is now contradicting himself in the latest speeches. He has been caught out yet he is still the elephant in the room. The LNP really have to think hard whether they want to keep him on and sustain a massive defeat at the next election or two, or cut their losses now and try to save as much of the party as possible with a new leader who will stand against rather than holding hands with the opposition on renewables. It’s really do or die stuff now.

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          • #
            Dennis

            I agree Peter S.

            If the Coalition allows this badly flawed character to continue to lead the government the next election will be a slaughter for Liberal and National parties.

            And the feeble plea that the other side is worse is pathetic.

            They are the worst but equally, both sides are the worst candidates for election to government.

            The circuit breaker would only be an honest team of Australian patriots promising to reverse the economic vandalism and undermining of our nation, globalists out.

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            • #
              PeterS

              Sorry but don’t talk to me about patriots. We have very few in this country. If had a lot more we would’nt have elected the likes of Krudd, Killard and Krudbull.

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            • #
              Sceptical Sam

              There are no patriots in Parliament.

              That’s the first principle they give up when they enter through those heavy double doors.

              Yes. There are many who profess to being patriots but watch your back when you hear them say it.

              Hal Colebatch reveals in great detail that between 1939 and 1945 nearly every major Australian warship was targeted by strikes, go-slows, sabotage and pillage; and the Labor Party was supporting that action. The Curtin government (Labor) did nothing to stop it.

              Bob Menzies sold pig iron to Japan to help it build its military machine that murdered and killed thousands of Australian service men and women.

              And who in today’s Parliament has taken action; has stood firmly with Ben Roberts-Smith VC MG while his character is assassinated by the cowards on the left?

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    • #
      Dennis

      This is deceptive comment;

      “A 26 per cent reduction target was established by the 2015 Paris Agreement and settled when Tony Abbott was Prime Mimister. It is an integral part of Mr Turnbull’s National Energy Guarantee.”

      The reduction target was settled when Tony Abbott was Prime Minister in the Department of Prime Minister & Cabinet and a memorandum was released advising that it would be taken to the Paris Conference end of 2015. A majority of the Cabinet Ministers later voted with other Liberal MPs to replace Abbott with Turnbull in September 2015.

      The Paris Agreement was signed by Minister Hunt in New York in April 2016 and ratified in New York in November 2016.

      The references to Abbott are deceptive because he negotiated the emissions target argued for in Cabinet down from what his rebel ministers wanted, and the NEG debate today indicates that those rebels wanted much more.

      131

  • #
    Peter C

    What has happened to Rereke?

    100

    • #
      Yonniestone

      I was seriously just about to ask that too, Kia Ora my friend I hope life finds you well.

      100

    • #
      Annie

      Yes, I miss his comments.

      42

      • #
        Annie

        Good grief Red Thumb, whatever is the problem?!

        21

        • #
          Peter C

          Red Thumb did not like Rereke’s comments. He tended to be sceptical.

          20

          • #
            ROM

            I miss Rereke and his always worth reading commmentary as well ,

            Sometimes though the commenters who have the highest input to this blog especially if they try to analyse and place different thinking before the mob, just reach a point where it is neccessary for them to just get away from it all for a few weeks / months so as to refresh.

            Which is why I have considerable degree of astonishment allied with a huge level of respect for Jo as she keeps up the immense work load grind of finding news items and subjects of general interest [ as well as her day job ! ] for her blog to keep the denizens interested and continuing to comment and in addition, doing a preliminary analysis of the situation and news item before she posts it up as another headline piece for us commenters to make of it what we will.

            A couple of times over the last couple of decades in other forums I have posted a series of blog articles on a couple of subjects, harvesting machinery and modifying / hot rodding harvesting machinery to a considerably higher capacity than when they came out of the factory being one of them, and I came to realise just how hard it is to keep writing those posted articles and particularly so as to keep on making them interesting for the blog readers .

            Which I why I have such a high level of admiration and respect for Jo but not only Jo but Anthony Watts [ who had to take a break of a few weeks some time ago ] , Pierre Gosselin, of the NoTricks Zone blog, Paul Homewood of the “Not a lot of people know that” plus others, all of whom are operating in an extremely nasty, vicious, hostile and threatening to skeptics environment based around the ideologically based belief in the so called but still unproven proposition of mans ability to change the global climate aka Climate change , by our increasing the concentration of a minor atmospheric gas from 300 PPM to 400 PPM.

            Plus Jo and other skeptic blog owners having to be able to personally handle a whole range of vicious scatalogical comments and straight out hate speech all viciously directed at her personally from all those very intellectually challenged individuals who are incapable of doing any independent thinking for themselves and who know nothing else except how to make vile viscous comments directed towards those who don’t agree with them on the climate change ideology .

            [ I just can't bring myself to call the Climate Change ideology or a fanatical dogma anything but that as it is still, after 3 decades of so called research, millions of climate model runs, a trillion plus dollars invested in either researching climate change or mitigating its still unseen, un-elucidated and never proven effects on the global climate or the Earth's biosphere. ]
            ————
            To put the increase from 300 to 400 Parts per million of the minor Carbon dioxide gas, a 100 PPM of additional CO2 that is supposedly going to lead to the destruction of mankind and all life on earth and maybe the destruction of the planet as well as so many” expert Climate change scientists” [ with degrees and PhD's in sociology, dead wombats and etc ] have assured us is inevitable into perspective, we just need to step out or measure out a hundred metres somewhere on the ground.

            That then is 100,000 mililmetres in length;
            Therefore each millimetre is equal to the equivalent of 100 Parts Per Million.

            So at the beginning of that 100 meters length, we can measure out and see the equivalent of 300 PPM of CO2 by measuring out 3 mms.

            The increase from 300 PPM measured in the early part of the 20th century to 400 PPM being measured now of CO2 can be seen by adding one [ 1 ] millimetre to those first 3 millimetres to bring the total atmospheric concentration of CO2 up to 4mms length on the 100 metres long stretch that is the equivalent of all the gases that make up the Earth’s atmosphere.

            41

            • #
              ROM

              ROM @ # 20.2.1.1.1

              A bad OOPs! there.

              Each millimetre in that 100 metres / 100, 000 millimetres is the equivalent of 10 PPM not 100 PPM as I posted.

              Corrected final passage version;

              ——
              Therefore each millimetre is equal to the equivalent of 10 Parts Per Million.

              So at the beginning of that 100 meters length, we can measure out and see the equivalent of 300 PPM of CO2 by measuring out 30 mms.

              The increase from 300 PPM measured in the early part of the 20th century to 400 PPM being measured now of CO2 can be seen by adding one 10 millimetre to those first 30. millimetres to bring the total atmospheric concentration of CO2 up to 40 mms length on the 100 metres long stretch that is the equivalent of all the gases that make up the Earth’s atmosphere.

              20

      • #

        Hope we hear a Rereke comment soon!

        30

  • #
    Mark M

    You don’t have to be a farmer to be frustrated …

    Frustrated farmers turn on BOM forecasting

    The 68-year-old says he’s heard governments say “You should be farming by forecast”.

    “Well, we’d be broke in 12 months if we did,” is his response.

    “I’m almost getting to the point now where whatever the bureau says you think it’s going to be the opposite.”

    https://www.9news.com.au/national/2018/08/17/07/01/frustrated-farmers-turn-on-bom-forecasting?ocid=social-9news

    Wait. What?

    It’s not their fault, it’s your fault …

    Rainfall forecasts are often misunderstood, but here is how to make sense of them

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-18/rainfall-forecasts-misunderstood-how-to-make-sense-of-them/10093822

    42

    • #
      Dennis

      Another example of Chairman Mal & the Black Hand faction who voted against the proposal from the relevant Minister and Prime Minister Abbott that due diligence, an audit of BoM be conducted after evidence was sent to the Minister regarding BoM media releases data not matching BoM historical record data.

      BoM management responded to the Minister’s inquiry that errors and omissions were the problem and steps were being taken to ensure it does not continue.

      52

    • #
      ROM

      Tried farming by using the BOM’s highly accurate [ ???? ] seasonal forecasting back in the 1990′s.

      It took someewhat less than a season to wake up to the fact that I was on the road to going bankrupt if I keep following the BOM’s seasonal / monthly predictions and forecasts.

      20

    • #
      yarpos

      “I’m almost getting to the point now where whatever the bureau says you think it’s going to be the opposite.”

      I recall one of Jo’s stories featured a BOM rainfall forecast, beside a BOM rainfall actuals for the same period. They were pretty much opposite.

      As I heard a weather guy say one night “It’s a prediction not a promise”

      10

  • #
    pat

    RIP Aretha Franklin, Queen of Soul, who died on same day – 16 August, 41 years later – than Elvis Presley, King of King of Rock ‘n’ Roll:

    Aretha Franklin – Don’t Play That Song (You Lied) [1970]
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ktFUwPGWag

    Mix – ELVIS – I Just Can’t Help Believing (Remastered audio) YouTube
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyKtRoGiNIM

    20

  • #
    Yonniestone

    For Original Steve: Forecast, 18/08 Cold if wind W, Snow if E.

    BOM observations Ballarat, High 7.7C @ 01:00 pm, Low 3.3C @ 02:30 pm, Wind W/WSW, ~25-30 kph.

    Personal observations, Very cold, windy, can verify the low @ 02:30 pm with a hail storm as I was out in it washing down the road with a pressure cleaner to remove clay.

    20

  • #
    TdeF

    There has been a seismic shift in the way Turnbull conducts politics. In the days of Howard and then Abbott, there was due process in everything. If you wanted to make a big change in the law, the constitution or the relation with the States, you asked the people. At an election. You then had a mandate for change. The people had spoken.

    Now we have a PM who stole the job, was elected on Abbott’s platform and is determined to bring in the very same Emissions Intensity schemes which were rejected by Abbott. He has no mandate. In fact he has a moral obligation not to do it.

    So we have a lawyer PM who believe that if you can get away with it, that’s all that matters. What the people think, what science says, what you said are all irrelevant. It’s all about personal victory and getting what you want. I was infinitely more comfortable with well meaning Rudd or Union puppet Gillard because we knew where we stood. Bob Hawke was straight forward. Paul Keating was nasty but did great things. Even Gough Whitlam was a dreamer who had a vision and was upfront with his dreams. This PM is full of waffle and ego and deceit and is in my lifetime the worst PM ever. He had no reason to remove Abbott except personal gain. He has no mandate for his Emissions Intensity Scheme.

    It doesn’t matter who is PM next. No one could be as bad. As for Global Warming/Climate Change and ‘the’ Science, they are quite irrelevant. This is all Agenda 21, the domination of the UN, the destruction of manufacturing in Australian and subserivence to overseas banks and the EU bureaucrats, the wrecking of Australia and Malcolm getting what he wants. It’s not about carbon, an element of the Periodic Table. Carbon Dioxide is not a polluting emission.

    120

    • #
      PeterS

      Turnbull either is very dumb or was very cleverly trained at Goldman Sachs to deceive people. I tend to believe the latter. He is now proposing to drop the legislation of the NEG and instead regulate the target. That means it will be far easier for a future Labor minister to increase the target without the need to go through due process, such as the Senate. It’s the sort of action I would expect from a con artist. He is leading the LNP into oblivion, which perhaps was his intention all along.

      90

      • #
        Dennis

        He has been very open about his ambition to get rid of the National Party (Country Party when he first admitted to this) and the conservative side of the Liberal Party.

        And then to merge what was left of Liberal with Labor to form a single major party governing with no serious opposition capable of challenging for government.

        http://www.stopturnbull.com

        50

        • #
          PeterS

          Perhaps he came up with that plan in consultation with the ALP years ago when he originally planned to join them. All pure conjecture of course and I don’t go into conspiracy theories as they far more often than not turn out to be false. I look at the evidence at hand and the evidence points to Turnbull being a very strong advocate of the original IPCC recommendations to accept that man is causing catastrophic global warming and the solution is to reduce our CO2 emissions at all costs. The evidence is now also clear that Australia is the only country in the world that’s taking those recommendations to the fullest. The reasons matter not. All that matters is the people have to know these facts and deliver a death blow to both major parties in their current form at the next election or else suffer the consequences. The only reason now for any person who is truly in favour of Australia’s best interests to avoid a crash and burn scenario and also to vote LNP is if Turnbull is replaced by someone who also truly is in favour of Australia’s best interests to avoid that fatal scenario, which if nothing changes will come as certain as night follows day.

          10

    • #
      Robber

      I suspect that Turnbull has finally had it drummed into his head from the backbenchers and perhaps the polls that what really matters is lowering electricity prices. That’s the only thing voters care about. Hence he is now madly rushing about trying to find the magic pudding (see #12 above).
      “Mr Turnbull today used Facebook to announce a new power price cap policy and said he plans to penalise energy companies that fail to deliver on cheaper prices.” “Senator McKenzie said she was “comfortable” the Prime Minister was amending the policy after consultations with angry Coalition MPs”.

      60

      • #
        Dennis

        Sucked in.

        Foolish MPs

        60

      • #
        PeterS

        So now both Turnbull and Shorten are making power prices as the number one election issue. As a result they are leapfrogging each other and upping the ante as to who will deliver the largest savings for consumers. How funny. It will be interesting to see who will be more convincing to the gullible public. Or as I hope the public will not fall for either fake artist and smash both at the next election paving the way for a new coalition of parties to lead the nation. Of course the only sensible and perhaps realistic solution is for Turnbull to be replaced by a leader who promises to scrap the renewables subsidises in toto, withdraw from the Paris Agreement and warns any power company who dares closes a coal fired power station as an act of terrorism against the security and sovereignty of the nation requiring an immediate government intervention to take the power plant of the hands of the company and sell it off to anyone who promises to keep it running for the forseable future. Anything else is a total wast of time and we might as well get it over and done with by allowing Shorten to become our next PM to hasten the crash and burn so we can come out of it sooner rather than later.

        20

      • #
        Annie

        I always feel very uncomfortable with politicians who feel ‘comfortable’ with some rather suspect statement or plan, the same as I wonder what’s being hidden when they bleat about ‘transparency’ or when they use idiotic terms like ‘downward pressure on prices’…meaningless guff, isn’t it?

        10

  • #
    pat

    AUDIO: 15mins25secs: 14 Aug: 2GB: Alan Jones show: ‘That peaked about 5000 years ago’: Professor says planet has been cooling for millennia
    Global warming is one of the world’s hottest topics, talked about endlessly by politicians, scientists, activists and the general public.
    Fighting it has become a multi-billion dollar industry that has seen electricity prices skyrocket, particularly in Australia.
    But one professor believes the planet is actually in a cooling phase, and has been for thousands of years.
    Professor Ian Plimer has long been sceptical of climate change theories and tells Alan Jones the science is clear in his eyes…

    Professor Plimer tells Alan it’s unbelievable that carbon dioxide is still being demonised.
    “How can you argue that the gas of life, that all life hangs off, is actually a pollutant or a poison?
    “You have to be delusional, or live in Canberra, to have the view that carbon dioxide is poisonous.”
    https://www.2gb.com/that-peaked-about-5000-years-ago-professor-says-planet-has-been-cooling-for-millennia/

    60

  • #
    Hanrahan

    Turning down the hot water system’s temperature.

    In an earlier Uthreaded a poster spoke of turning off his HWS until it ran cold when he turned it back on. At the time I thought this was both futile and dangerous: Futile because I doubt it saves much energy and dangerous because “Yet up in Canada if you look for recommendations, they will tell you not to set your heater below 140F, as it can become a sort of petri dish for Legionnaires Disease.”

    Legionnaires Disease, or Legeionellosis, is caused by “Legionella pneumophila, a ubiquitous aquatic organism that thrives in warm environments.” It was identified after 34 veterans died after attending an American Legion Convention in the Bellevue-Stratford Hotel in Philadelphia in 1976. It is temperature sensitive:

    * 70 to 80 °C (158 to 176 °F): Disinfection range
    * At 66 °C (151 °F): Legionellae die within 2 minutes
    * At 60 °C (140 °F): Legionellae die within 32 minutes
    * At 55 °C (131 °F): Legionellae die within 5 to 6 hours
    * Above 50 °C (122 °F): They can survive but do not multiply
    * 35 to 46 °C (95 to 115 °F): Ideal growth range
    * 20 to 50 °C (68 to 122 °F): Legionellae growth range
    * Below 20 °C (68 °F): Legionellae can survive but are dormant

    I think that such recommendations exist here too. It is possible that it is actually illegal for licensed plumbers to set temps too low, not sure.

    https://www.treehugger.com/green-food/is-it-safe-to-turn-down-your-water-heater-temperature.html

    How say you?

    60

    • #
      yarpos

      From the owners manual with our system (evacuated tube solar)

      AUXILIARY BOOSTING OPERATION
      The auxiliary boost acts as a back up to ensure you always have hot water ready to go, so even when the sun is hiding you and your family are still able to have a hot shower. Secondly, it provides protection against the growth of legionella bacteria that c
      an lead to legionnaire’s disease. The temperature requirements and frequencies of heating are in
      Table 3 below.

      Table 3 shows our system heats to 60C each day

      30

      • #
        Hanrahan

        How is your evacuated tube system going Yarpos? I have considered going that way, but not until my electric system dies.

        00

        • #
          yarpos

          Works well, had it running for 6 years now. Was recommended to use ny the plumber that did our place, he is based in Mansfield and does a lot of work in the ski fields. He had found the systems were durable and very efficient.

          I have been surprised by the efficiency aspect. There are times when it is quite cold and/or early morning, and if its a clear day the system will still be pumping warm water down from the roof.

          The only issue we had was the system over heating during the first summer. This was controlled by changing the pump speed. It has a 3 speed switch on the side. When we have the first 30C day I turn it down to minimum to slow the system down, as we hid towards winter when we have the first day in the teens I turn it up to maximum. That seems to work fine, no issues.

          System is Apricus, rebadged as Therman by Reece at the time.

          30

    • #
      PeterS

      On a similar theme, I recently had my hot water system replaced and it had to be fitted with a tempering valve. It mixes cold water with the hot water coming from the tank to reduce the risk of scolding (thank you nanny state). The temperature is reduced down to about 50C. I wonder if the water that’s left in the pipes since the last usage ever manages to gain Legionellae and when the tempered hot water passes through the pipes it fails to get rid of the Legionellae before the water is used for say showering purposes where a person could swallow said water that’s contaminated. Am I being pedantic?

      01

    • #
      James Murphy

      I used to turn off my electric storage heater when I was away from home for weeks at a time. I considered it a saving in that case. I’ve worked in places where the water heaters (storage units) were turned off to provide water at a much cooler temperature than the “cold” tap could provide. It’s not often that ones has to complain that there is too much hot water…

      The South Australian government has this to say:
      https://www.sa.gov.au/topics/energy-and-environment/electrical-gas-and-plumbing-safety-and-technical-regulation/plumbing-trades/legionella-risk-management

      This has an expired link to the Plumbing Code of Australia, so, without trawling through the Australian Building Codes Board website, it indicates to my simple mind there may well be national legislation for hot water temperatures, but that it may not cover individual homes (“Class 1a”, apparently…)

      00

      • #
        James Murphy

        From the SA government guidelines for the control of Legionella. I guess every state has similar info, and guidelines. Sure, it’s from the SA government, but there are some things they can’t afford to get wrong, and indeed, some things they probably do well.

        Legionella growth is temperature dependent. In broad terms, the temperature characteristics are:
        below 20°C – dormant
        20 to 25 – virtually dormant although very slow growth is possible
        25 – 30 – slow growth if other factors are satisfied
        30 – 37 – increase in growth rate
        37 – 43 – optimum temperature range for replication of Legionella
        45 – maximum temperature for growth
        46 – stationary phase (dies over about 1 week)
        50 – dies slowly (about 10 hours)
        55 – dies in about 1 hour
        63 – dies in a few minutes
        70 – dies in seconds.

        10

  • #
    TdeF

    I would also like to make a suggestion. The people who want to control our country, every county choose their language carefully. It is manipulative. Consider that currently no one promises to reduce electricity prices, they want to ‘put downward pressure on prices’. Vague, non committal and ultimately not a promise at all.

    Most importantly in all this, there is no mention of Carbon Dioxide anywhere. Certainly not in the law. They use ‘Emissions‘. ‘emissions‘ is a prejudicial code word selected to imply ‘pollution’ as in ‘industrial pollution’. The phrase ‘Climate Change’ is used and when you read further they are actually talking ‘Global Warming’ of a ludicrously small amount which we could agree is most unlikely to be at all significant and even then the essential phrase ‘man made’ is left out.

    I might make a suggestion, stick to science, not ‘The Science’ which is ‘their’ science, a code phrase. In my lifetime there has never been such a thing as ‘The Science’. Science is a comprehension of nature summarised in principles, laws and based on irrefutable evidence and the hard physical sciences solid mathematics like stoicheometry and the laws of motion. There is no ‘precautionary principle’ in science or medicine. That was pompous made up and even morally wrong nonsense.

    Now consider a ‘Carbon Dioxide Intensity Scheme’. ‘Man Made Global Warming’. That’s better. Do not use the word emissions. It is not true.
    If we use the right language, it might catch on.

    Science tells us carbon dioxide is a harmless essential, entirely natural gas which comes from ants, fish, lobsters, giraffes and humans and eagles and yeast. It is everywhere and most is in the oceans. Without it we would all die quickly. In fact immediately. All life is part of the carbon cycle and plants, trees, flowers, green grass are made almost entirely from carbon dioxide, water and sunlight. In my lifetime, the increased population of China alone breathes out more Carbon Dioxide than all of Australia’s man made Carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide is not industrial pollution any more than water is pollution.

    So no Climate Change. As scientists always use man made Global Warming. The ‘Man Made’ must be included, as that is the allegation. Warming or cooling is entirely expected and natural. Leaving out the ‘man made’ means we are trying to stop nature, like King Canute.

    So no Emissions. Carbon Dioxide
    Dare I say, no hate speech. Swearing or abuse are clear enough. We all know the difference. It is not subtle.
    Black is a colour, like white. People are different colours. They are all good. It is not an insult. It is not racist.
    When Donald Trump said Maxine Waters was not very bright, he was not being racist as has been alleged by CNN.

    but most of all, no emissions. Not even carbon. Raw carbon does not exist in the environment. Please take the time and use Carbon Dioxide.
    I will try too.

    Overall take back control of your language from the thought police, especially in a science blog.
    Then all the UN/EU/Agenda 21 edicts sound so silly. A carbon dioxide tax? Carbon dioxide credits? Carbon dioxide Intensity Scheme?.
    Do not let them control the language of scientists. It might catch on. Man made global warming. Really? Prove it.

    112

    • #
      TdeF

      If we use man made global warming, it is up to the vocal opposition to argue that is the same thing as ‘Climate Change’ and then it is really questionable to the man in the street whether 0.5C in an average would make any difference to any climate and even the allegation that is it man made and that the CO2 increase is man made or even significant. As for more floods, droughts, storms and more violent storms, none of that was ever any more than a wild allegation without substance. Man made global warming. That ends the argument.

      We use carbon dioxide. Not emissions. Not carbon. Now try to get a tax on carbon dioxide though any parliament.

      We use science, meaning the hard science of Newton and Descartes and Pasteur. Not the superstition known as ‘The Science’ short for ‘The Science of Climate Change’ created by the UN political committee known as the IPCC, for their own purposes.

      Take back the platform. Argue on your terms, not theirs.

      121

      • #
        Geoffrey Williams

        Well spoken Tdef – As always great commentary from yourself;
        The use of the correct terminology is essential in order to get to the nub ofthe debate.
        Regards GeoffW

        40

      • #
        el gordo

        Good work TdeF.

        The deliberate corruption of language to get a favourable outcome is clear for all to see, if only they would look.

        In my milieu the word ‘climate’ is forboten because the science is apparently settled, which is why I hang out here to avoid acrimony there. I live in a parallel universe.

        41

      • #
        PeterS

        Take back the platform. Argue on your terms, not theirs.

        Many have tried in and outside of politics and still it has gotten worse. It’s the responsibility of people to open their eyes, do their own research, use their brains and make the right choice at the ballot box – not take the lazy approach and trust the biased education system, politicians and MSM are always telling the truth when in fact they all have been telling us lies ad nauseam on climate change. Who would be able to as you suggest convince the LNP to take back the platform and argue the point opposite to that of the ALP+Greens? Sure there are many who disagree with Turnbull’s policy on energy and some of them might even have the guts to run an election campaign promising to withdraw from the Paris Agreement and cut all renewables subsidies but do any of them have the strength to put forward the case to the people and argue why they are making such promises? Any takers?

        20

      • #
        ROM

        TdeF

        You have probably caught up with this by now but you said somewhere above you haven’t seen the text of Turncoats NEG legislation,

        Andrew Bolt has some facsimiles of parts of the legislation on his Herald Sun blog; found here

        DEAR LIBS: HERE’S THE NEG BILL THAT TURNBULL GAVE TO LABOR, NOT YOU

        The legislation is all over reducing “emmissions” with up to $100 million dollar fines if you don’t do so.

        Reducing prices doesn’t seem to get any mention except a Million dollar fine, 100th of the emmissions fine , for those generators / distrubutiors or whoever who don’t or fail to reduce prices .

        In short Turncoat has through the proposed fine ratios, decided that reducing prices for power is only of about a 100th or a 1% level of importance compared to reducing emmissions.

        30

    • #
      Dennis

      You are right TdeF, we are brain washed into using the language the manipulators have created based on their research involving focus groups and questions crafted by psychologists and other professionals, marketing people and others.

      It has long annoyed me being told that National Parks are being preserved for future generations, what about the people now who need timber, minerals and energy locked away in those National Parks registered as such with the UN?

      Carbon pollution began as greenhouse gas emissions in the lead up to the Kyoto Conference in Japan. But if there was pollution from claimed “carbon” why have Environmental Protection Agencies circa 1970s not dealt with the polluters? It’s not logical, just marketing hyperbole and puffery.

      80

      • #
        el gordo

        “Don’t you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it. Every concept that can ever be needed will be expressed by exactly one word, with its meaning rigidly defined and all its subsidiary meanings rubbed out and forgotten.” (1.5.23, Syme) Orwell 1984

        40

  • #
    • #
      PeterS

      Let’s hope so. There really is only room for one major party to promote an energy policy demanding we cut our emissions and promote renewables at the expense of coal. The alternative party has to promote the other side of the critically important issue of power supply. Anyone who doesn’t believe in the former stance on energy policy must at this stage vote for one of the other minor parties in preference to and above both major parties or else must class themselves as a contributor and supporter for higher energy prices and a less reliable power supply.

      10

  • #
    pat

    19 Aug: ABC: Solar boom ‘bringing hundreds of jobs’ to Queensland’s Darling Downs
    Landline By Pip Courtney
    One council alone has approved one wind and 11 solar projects worth $6 billion.
    “We’ve got $1.2 billion of that under construction now, and that’s the exciting thing, this isn’t just about approvals, this is about action to deliver renewable energies to this region,” Western Downs Regional Council mayor Paul McVeigh said.
    “And we know there are another three [solar farms] in the pipeline.”

    When the coal seam gas industry scaled back, hundreds of jobs were lost, rental vacancies soared, and businesses failed…
    But Mayor McVeigh says the signs of economic recovery are becoming increasingly visible.
    “We have growth in all our towns, and one of the real estate agents in Dalby has only got two houses left to rent,” he said…

    The area’s first big project — the $200 million Dalby Solar Farm, owned by Australian energy infrastructure company APA — is nearing completion.
    It will generate enough electricity to power 30,000 homes.
    When it is finished, the workforce of over 100 will move onto a bigger APA project, with 800,000 solar panels.
    “We’re looking at the Beelbee solar farm which is just nearby, and if we get all the approvals we want for that and proceed, that will be around $200 to 300 million as well,” APA’s Sam Pierce said.
    “There are plenty of places in Australia which have good solar resources, there are plenty of places which have good transmission lines as well, and there are lots of places which have good support from the local community,” he said.
    “Darling Downs has got all three of those, so that’s three big ticks in its favour.”

    ***The large amount of development in the pipeline has gone largely uncriticised to date…

    ‘Powerless to stop solar’
    In Chinchilla though, two families who will overlook a 300-hectare solar farm for 25 years are angry ***local government planning rules mean they are unable to lodge an objection…
    (Watermelon grower Terry O’Leary) claims if the proposal was in New South Wales the approval decision would not be in council hands.
    “Anything over $30 million goes to State Significant Development (SSD) and it would not be allowed to be built on class A or B agricultural land.”
    He says the land is good quality grazing country, and should be quarantined from renewable development.

    The owner of the land in question is Ian Beard — who runs beef cattle and sheep and grows watermelons.
    Mr Beard disputes the claim his land is good agricultural land…
    He has been surprised and saddened about the negative publicity from one of his neighbours.
    “There is no dust, no pollution, no noise, and in this particular situation no aesthetic problems, we have not got this beautiful valley where we are wrecking anyone’s view, there is just no way in the world we are going to devalue the land.
    “I believe anyone driving up that road who doesn’t know it’s there won’t even see it. We just can’t see any negatives at all.”

    ***Mr Beard says it is just luck his place was selected, his land is flat, large enough, close to high voltage power lines which run through his farm, and close to the town of Chinchilla.
    “I have neighbours who say ‘can I get the contacts as maybe they want to extend into my place.’…

    Could Toowoomba have the world’s biggest solar farm?
    The Toowoomba Council hasn’t missed out on the boom.
    It approved a billion-dollar project at Bulli Creek which, if it goes ahead, will be the biggest in the world.
    The proponent, Solar Choice, expects a 10-year build time.
    Toowoomba mayor Paul Antonio recently turned the first sod on a 264-megawatt project owned by Chinese solar company Risen Energy.

    The land was chosen because it is flat and near a substation, but it is also good cropping country.
    Mayor Antonio says he understands the public and farm lobby group’s concern about good farm land being sold or leased for solar farms…

    In Warwick, the Southern Downs Regional Council faced community opposition to a solar farm proposal on good agricultural land on the edge of town…
    The site is in a valley which is overlooked by houses.
    Local resident Mark Pierce says residents bought because of the rural views and they fear the value of their properties will fall when the solar farm is finished at the end of next year.
    “I believe everyone has a right to do what they want on their land, but we also have laws, and I can’t just do something here that would drastically affect my neighbour,” Mr Pierce said.
    The Warwick solar farm will be run by the University of Queensland (UQ)…

    Queensland’s energy minister Dr Anthony Lyneham says local government is the best arm of government to make planning decisions…
    “People have a lot of power when it comes to ***local government complaints through to the planning and environment court … but also ultimately there is the ballot box.”…

    Toowoomba Mayor Paul Antonio says he and fellow mayors are stunned by the scale of the projects, how quickly they can be built, and the economic activity renewable energy has brought to the region.
    “If you had asked me about this amazing stuff which is happening in power generation [a decade ago] I would have said it was impossible, but it’s all possible.”
    Fellow mayor Paul McVeigh says the region is on track to becoming the “solar capital of Australia”.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-19/solar-boom-bringing-hundreds-of-jobs-to-rural-queensland/10118134

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      yarpos

      “The area’s first big project — the $200 million Dalby Solar Farm, owned by Australian energy infrastructure company APA — is nearing completion.
      It will generate enough electricity to power 30,000 homes.”

      No it wont actually. It will be produced power during daylight hours, at random time governed by local weather , maintenance and outages. It may over a particular period produce power equivalent to that used by 30,000 homes, however if those homes were solely reliant on solar power they would soon find out that its virtually useless in terms of delivering usefull 24×7 power when YOU want it, rather than when it can spit it out. So really its a complete lie to say it can power 30,000 homes, because it never can in any useful way absent an effective grid.

      The required effective grid becomes less effective and less economic with every solar installation, therefore prices will rise.

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    Another Ian

    “Fellow mayor Paul McVeigh says the region is on track to becoming the “solar capital of Australia”.

    We’ll probably get to remind him of this

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    pat

    19 Aug: ABC: ‘We’ve been warned’: Swelling Northern Hemisphere heatwaves bring unprecedented fires
    By Lisa Millar and Conor Duffy
    Firefighters in Sweden have faced their worst bushfire season ever on the back of the country’s hottest July since records began more than 260 years ago…

    Given Sweden has just experienced record summer temperatures, the country’s firefighting service may need a total overhaul, and Mr Arnevall fears for what lies ahead.
    “Eighteen of the warmest 19 summers have been in the last 25 years for Sweden,” he said.
    “We’ve been warned now what can happen … look at climate change and the temperatures in Sweden, and what’s happening with our climate…

    Meanwhile, across the Atlantic in the United States, it’s an all-too-similar story, with high temperatures and very low rainfall now commonplace.
    This month two fires north of San Francisco merged to become the biggest fire ever seen in California…
    ‘Something’s definitely changing’…
    Captain Kaufmann says that change is the climate and it’s made his job unrecognisable from when he first trained to put out fires…

    There’s so much work to be done, Australians are among crews brought in from far afield to help…
    Among them is Beverley Gardner from Parks and Wildlife Western Australia, who is full of energy and enthusiasm despite the gruelling schedule…
    When Ms Gardner gets home it could be a busy season — and a changing climate is changing fire behaviour there too.
    “Back home in Western Australia we are sort of finding definitely that we are having quite a few fires more than historically they have, different season types as well,” she says.

    (PREPARE FOR THE ANTI-TRUMP ATTACK)
    The role of climate change
    While there’s a broad scientific consensus saying climate change is worsening the fires, not every one is convinced.
    Earlier this week, the Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke told reporters climate change wasn’t to blame.
    Under pressure he later said ‘of course’ it was when asked if they were contributing to the fires.
    President Donald Trump has blamed what he calls the state’s foolish environmental policies and the diversion of water into the ocean.
    California firefighters promptly dismissed that criticism, saying they had plenty of water and a changing climate was to blame…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-19/northern-hemisphere-heat-brings-unprecedented-bushfires/10134490

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      yarpos

      theres that “unprecedented” word again

      they have no way of knowing or justifying that

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        James Murphy

        They do if they have no knowledge of what has happened in the past, and no desire, or capacity to learn.

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    Another Ian


    This Is Not Your Grandma’s Humane Society
    August 18, 2018 KateAnimal Rights Extremism 27 Comments

    The left owns the media, the courts, and the law schools. It can and will happen here.

    VEGANS may brand milk production “inhumane” after the Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) ruled in favour of an activist group’s anti-dairy campaign.

    The story is from 2017, but the fact that so-called conservative legislators aren’t getting out in front of this creeping insanity with protective legislation for agriculture and related industries is a study in incompetence. They’ve learned nothing from the attacks on the fossil fuel industry, and they’re sitting on their hands as agriculture is being taken apart piece by piece.

    Call your MLA and tell them to get moving on right to farm and anti-animal rights legislation.”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2018/08/18/this-is-not-your-grandmas-humane-society-7/

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    pat

    the final para with Opposition’s response is not even worth excerpting – though who knows whether or not more was said that made some sense, which theirABC didn’t bother to report:

    19 Aug: ABC: Victorians to get half-price solar panels under State Government scheme
    Victorians will be able to install solar panels on their homes for half price under a $1.24 billion scheme announced by the Andrews Government.

    Key points:
    •Solar panels to be installed in more than 650,000 Victorian homes.
    •The scheme is open to homes valued under $3 million.
    •Households have been promised up to $890 savings a year on power bills.

    From today the State Government said it would pay $4,550 upfront to install the rooftop panels, and households would then be required to repay half the cost over a four-year period.
    The Solar Homes scheme is available to owner-occupied homes valued at less than $3 million, with a combined household income of less than $180,000.
    Under the plan, solar panels would be installed on 650,000 homes over 10 years.
    Premier Daniel Andrews said it would help thousands of households save up to $890 dollars a year on their power bills…

    The scheme would save the average Victorian household up to $2,225 for the installation of an average 4kW solar system…
    An independent agency called Solar Victoria will also be set up to oversee the scheme to ensure the safety of solar panel installation.
    The Government has also promised to invest $9 million for the accreditation of 4,500 electricians to install the panels…

    Environment Victoria chief executive Mark Wakeham: “Adding an extra 2,000 megawatts of solar beyond what was expected to happen will lower energy bills for all Victorian households and businesses by pushing new clean energy into the power grid.”…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-19/victorians-to-get-half-price-solar-panels-in-government-scheme/10137484

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      Ian George

      Just thinking.
      What happens if you have the panels installed and someone builds a large house/block of flats, or grows trees which limit the amount of sun you receive? What happens now?

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    Another Ian

    “The Meteor Extinction Debate Looks A LOT Like the Climate Debate”

    “This article about a skeptic of the dominant Alvarez meteor-extinction debate is quite interesting and worth a read. Gerta Keller has had quite an interesting life. But I will say I found it particularly fascinating comparing details here to the climate debate. Here are a few example quotes that will seem very familiar to those who have watched the back and forth over global warming, particularly from the skeptic side:”

    http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2018/08/the-meteor-extinction-debate-looks-a-lot-like-the-climate-debate.html?doing_wp_cron=1534647115.9430289268493652343750

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      PeterS

      Yes but the difference is no one was there to witness whether the meteor extinction theory or the volcano theory was real or not but today we can witness whether man-made runaway global warming is real and not, and the evidence clearly points to the fact it’s not. Observational real-time evidence always beats historically recorded circumstantial evidence hands down.

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    yarpos

    Occasionally I troll through this website looking at weather records (yes it is sad)

    https://wmo.asu.edu/content/world-meteorological-organization-global-weather-climate-extremes-archive

    It always strikes me that these absolute global, hemisphere, regional, country records for high temperature are pretty much all way in the past, mostly between 1880 and 1980.

    You would think that with all the unprecedented, extreme, apocalyptic temperature increases claimed for recent times you would see some recent records. Very odd.

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    pat

    11 Aug: LA Times: Steve Lopez: Ignore the climate change deniers. California’s hellish summer really is a grave warning
    But not everyone is alarmed, it turns out, which I’ve discovered since my July 18 column on climate change. Reaction has fallen into the following categories:
    There is no climate change, and I’m a stooge to have fallen for a hoax.
    Global warming exists, but it’s not man-made.
    Climate change is real, but it’s silly to believe California’s environmental zealotry can measurably improve a global problem.
    And lastly, if climate change is real and it’s here, what can we do about it legislatively and individually?
    So let’s take a look at each one…

    “They say the temps are the highest recorded in 130 years,” wrote Joe. “What was the excuse for the soaring temps 130 years ago when there were no cars and very, very little industrialization … here’s a clue — it’s a HOAX swallowed whole by the rush of lemmings who want to believe they are doing gooooooooooood things for the planet.”
    I responded by telling Joe what several climate scientists have painstakingly explained to me in recent weeks:

    Yes, unusually high temperatures have always existed, but scientists have now documented more frequent and intense heat waves of longer duration. Also, nighttime temperatures have increased, record highs now outnumber record lows by a 5-1 ratio and atmospheric carbon dioxide has increased from 250 parts per million to 400 parts per million, all of which has altered climates around the world.

    Joe called this information “crap” that can’t stand up to “REAL SCIENTIFIC SCRUTINY.” He suggested I look up the writings of climate scientist Judith Curry…
    Ben Santer, a climate scientist with the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, had this to say:
    “Prof. Curry has argued (and continues to argue) that: 1) climate scientists routinely ignore important uncertainties in their efforts to quantify human influences on global climate; and 2) reality is too complex for us to comprehend; we will never understand the real-world climate system.”
    Santer said he disagrees with Curry on both counts.

    “In my line of research — climate fingerprinting — we routinely consider uncertainties in satellite temperature data, in model simulations of natural variability, and in model estimates of the climate response to human influences,” Santer said.
    “Furthermore, we routinely look at other possible explanations for the observed changes in climate (such as changes in the Sun’s energy output and changes in volcanic activity). Uncertainty is an integral part of our work. We do not sweep it under the carpet, as Prof. Curry incorrectly asserts,” Santer said.
    He added that despite imperfect observations, it is clear “beyond any reasonable doubt” that evidence points to a “human-caused warming signal” related to greenhouse gas increases. And if we wait for more perfect data before responding, Santer warned, “humanity is in trouble.”…

    Alex Hall, a UCLA climate scientist, has no doubt.
    “I think what’s happening in California is wonderful,” said Hall, who traded his gas-hungry car for a Chevy Bolt. “It’s a pathway forward.”
    Environmentalism isn’t sacrifice, Hall said. It’s change. And in charting a course toward renewable energy and lower greenhouse gas emissions, California is setting an agenda…

    As Santer said, one of the best things you can do is educate yourself. He suggested that I read “Climate Change Evidence & Causes” (LINK), a short summary that’s been neatly laid out by the Royal Society and the U.S. National Academy of Sciences…

    However many naysayers there are, including a president who blames California’s catastrophe on everything but global warming, leading the way on educating, planning and adapting isn’t just possible, it’s a moral imperative.
    http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-lopez-climate-action-08122018-story.html

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      pat

      but when the facts don’t go CAGW’s way, we bring out the BigBio “expert” to ***warn us off making any claims:

      18 Aug: Forbes: Cold Atlantic Water Means Less Hurricane Activity As Peak Approaches
      by Marshall Shepherd
      (Dr. Marshall Shepherd, Dir., Atmospheric Sciences Program/GA Athletic Assoc. Distinguished Professor Univ of Georgia, Host, Weather Channel’s Popular Podcast, Weather Geeks, 2013 AMS President
      Dr. J. Marshall Shepherd, a leading international expert in weather and climate, was the 2013 President of American Meteorological Society AMS… Prior to UGA, Dr. Shepherd spent 12 years as a Research Meteorologist at NASA-Goddard Space Flight Center…Shepherd is frequently sought as an expert on weather and climate by major media outlets, the White House, and Congress. He has over 80 peer-reviewed scholarly publications and numerous editorials etc)

      We are approaching the latter part of August, which typically means that we are entering the peak of the Atlantic hurricane season. According to National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) statistics, September 10th is the peak of the season with the month of August serving as a significant ramp up period. This year forecasters have continued to adjust their forecasts downward. One of the primary reasons is that the region of the Atlantic that “breeds” storms at this time of year has colder than normal waters…
      If you look at the map of sea surface temperature anomalies below (difference from normal), it is clear that there is a lot of “blue” in the formation region. This means that there is colder than normal temperatures in the Atlantic Main Development Region (MDR)…

      Dr. Phil Klotzbach, heads the Colorado Tropical Meteorology group. In a June commentary in the Washington Post’s Capital Weather Gang, he explained that stronger winds in this tropical region have caused a lot of mixing and upwelling, which brings up deep, colder waters. In 2017, those trade winds were weaker so there was not as much mixing of cold water.
      What this all means going forward is not clear, ***but it is important to not make crazy statements on either side of the ledger about climate change and hurricane activity based on either 2017 or 2018. I understand that some list serves and blogs have been at a frenzy. For the most accurate information on climate change and hurricanes, I highly recommend the site at this link (LINK GFDL/NOAA).

      I close with a caution. Even with all of the talk about “below normal,” please stay diligent in coastal communities because it only takes one storm.
      https://www.forbes.com/sites/marshallshepherd/2018/08/18/cold-atlantic-water-means-less-hurricane-activity-as-peak-approaches/#1e627ffdc64a

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      yarpos

      you have to wonder why people are fixated on records, was it an apocalypse last time that record was broken? why is it one now? do you really believe the world can be frozen in time to align with some ideal climate level of your own imagining? I dont understand how these peoples brains work. I cant help think most of them are on the bottom of the bell curve and easily influenced and paniced.

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    Mark M

    Victoria Labor pledges $1.2 billion in rebates, loans for rooftop solar

    “The Victoria Labor government has unveiled a plan to dramatically expand the installation of rooftop solar in the state, pledging $1.2 billion in rebates and no-interest loans for more than 650,000 homes.”

    https://reneweconomy.com.au/victoria-labor-pledges-1-2-billion-in-rebates-loans-for-rooftop-solar-19774/

    Icy blast to bring wind, rain and snow across Victoria

    https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/icy-blast-to-bring-wind-rain-and-snow-across-victoria/news-story/73b5fa6099cd4585ecb380d9dc63e001

    Further evidence solar panels can not stop doomsday global warming.

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      yarpos

      not sure I follow your proof logic, but it is an intersting juxtaposition of headlines.

      I’m sure that without an election this initiative would have been announced in the heat of summer

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    pat

    19 Aug: Guardian: Adam Vaughan: With Brexit looming, energy sector builds new links to Europe
    Thanks to new interconnectors, imports could soon account for fifth of UK electricity needs
    Today, four cables – known as interconnectors – between the UK and Ireland, France and the Netherlands have a capacity of 4GW, providing around 6% of Britain’s power supplies. However, with 11 new connections linking the UK and other European countries either under construction or mooted by developers, imports could provide more than a fifth of the country’s electricity needs by 2025, the government expects (LINK)…

    Leading the charge is National Grid, which is behind three of the 11 new proposed cables…
    The company argues the links are good for consumers because lower wholesale prices on the continent will translate to cheaper energy bills in the UK. Households will save ***£9.01 a year once the 13.9GW of new capacity has come online, it calculates…

    Butterworth said: “I don’t think you can do it [renewables] without them. As you get more and more intermittent renewable energy, to use it at the right time and get it into the right place, interconnection is vital.”…
    He rejected criticism that the cables threatened energy security and would not be subject to the UK’s carbon tax, charges usually levelled at interconnectors by firms that wanted to build big gas power stations in Britain…

    National Grid’s dual role as builder of interconnectors and manager of balancing electricity supplies has also raised questions about its vested interests…
    The company is not ruling out more radical ideas, including interconnectors for a Dutch-backed island in the North Sea surrounded by windfarms…
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/aug/18/brexit-looming-energy-sector-builds-new-links-europe

    18 Aug: NBC: Supersized solar farms are sprouting around the world (and maybe in space, too)
    by Mark Harris
    In a quest to cut the cost of clean electricity, power utilities around the world are supersizing their solar farms.
    Nowhere is that more apparent than in southern Egypt, where what will be the world’s largest solar farm — a vast collection of more than 5 million photovoltaic panels — is now taking shape. When it’s completed next year, the $4 billion Benban solar park near Aswan will cover an area 10 times bigger than New York’s Central Park and generate up to 1.8 gigawatts of electricity.
    That’s roughly the output of two nuclear power plants combined and almost double the planned capacity of the vast Villanueva facility now growing in the Mexican state of Coahuila — currently the largest facility in the Americas. (The largest solar farm in the U.S. is the 580-megawatt Solar Star facility near Los Angeles.)

    But Benban probably won’t hold on to its title for long.
    China is planning to build a two-gigawatt solar farm in the northwestern province of Ningxia, and the state of Gujarat in western India recently gave the go-ahead for a five-gigawatt facility. Japan is even talking about putting a large-scale solar farm in space.

    The bigger, the cheaper
    “There are huge savings for larger projects,” says Benjamin Attia, a solar analyst with Wood Mackenzie, an energy consulting firm based in Edinburgh, Scotland. “Logistics, transport, construction and installation all benefit from scale economies. We’ll start to see more solar parks of one and two gigawatts, and potentially even 10 gigawatts in the future.”…

    A solar farm is only useful if the electricity it generates can reach the homes and factories that need it, often hundreds of miles away. Electricity transmission grids can struggle to cope with the intermittent power that massive new wind and solar farms generate.

    “Typically, those locations are going to be pretty remote,” says Daniel Kirschen, professor of electrical engineering at the University of Washington in Seattle. “The grid around new solar or wind farms will not be very strong. So you’re going to need to reinforce the grid, and that can get quite expensive.”

    China, in particular, has grappled with the infrastructure problem, and in the past has been unable to use up to 30 percent of the electricity generated by newly built solar farms. One possible solution is to build so-called supergrids that move electricity over vast distances to ensure that it’s not wasted.
    A grid to connect China, Korea, Russia and Japan is being proposed, and a planned European supergrid could span the continent by the late 2020s…

    Crowded, cloudy Japan, for example, has neither the open spaces nor the reliable months of sunshine needed for gargantuan solar parks. So it’s looking to build a solar power station where the sun always shines and space is not an issue: outer space.

    Japan’s space agency, JAXA, is working to put into orbit a one-gigawatt orbital solar farm that can generate power 24 hours a day. Starting in the 2030s, the solar space station would beam down energy as microwaves to a human-made island covered with billions of antennas. The agency has already demonstrated a system that can beam energy a few hundred yards, though questions remain about the practicality and safety of space-based power stations…

    More of the sun’s energy strikes the Earth’s surface in two hours than we consume in all forms every year. A solar park covering just 2 percent of the Sahara could provide the globe’s entire energy needs — assuming we could build a planetary supergrid to access it.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/supersized-solar-farms-are-sprouting-around-world-maybe-space-too-ncna901666

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    el gordo

    Latest from the Oz.

    Victorian Premier promises to ‘put a power station on everybody’s roof’ as Opposition raises spectre of another pink batts disaster.

    Big power firms and their shareholders face a dangerous week, as they look set to be targets of moves to save the NEG.

    Senior Nationals withhold support, for now, for Malcolm Turnbull’s energy changes, which include a cap on power prices.

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    pat

    18 Aug: news.com.au: Nationals generate support for coal power
    The Nationals have passed a motion at the party’s federal council calling on the government to scrap rules banning nuclear power generation.
    by Matt Coughlan, AAP
    The Nationals have urged the federal government to support new coal-fired power plants and lift the ban on nuclear energy.
    The party’s federal council in Canberra on Saturday passed a motion calling on the government to back building high-energy, low-emissions power stations to provide reliable and affordable power.
    A separate proposal from the Young Nationals urging federal and state governments to abolish rules stopping nuclear power plants being built and uranium mining also succeeded…

    Resources Minister Matt Canavan reinforced the case for coal, as conservative backbenchers agitate for its use to drive down power bills.
    “I don’t want to live in a nation where we just export our energy to the rest of the world to help their development, jobs and pensioners,” he told the Nationals council.
    “We need to use some of that here and we don’t think it’s a sin to do so.”…
    https://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/nationals-generate-support-for-coal-power/news-story/81679850de6b28a025e937fede84ae2d

    18 Aug: WaPo: New Trump power plant plan would release hundreds of millions of tons of CO2 into the air
    By Juliet Eilperin
    The plan, which is projected to release at least 12 times the amount of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere compared with the Obama rule over the next decade, comes as scientists have warned that the world will experience increasingly dire climate effects absent a major cut in carbon emissions.
    Trump plans to announce the measure as soon as Tuesday during a visit to West Virginia, according to two administration officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the White House was still finalizing details Friday.

    The Environmental Protection Agency’s own impact analysis, which runs nearly 300 pages, projects that the proposal would make only slight cuts to overall emissions of pollutants — including carbon dioxide, sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides — over the next decade. The Obama rule, by contrast, dwarfs those cuts by a factor of more than 12.

    The new proposal, which will be subject to a 60-day comment period, could have enormous implications for dozens of aging coal-fired power plants across the country. The EPA estimates that the measure will affect more than 300 U.S. plants, providing companies with an incentive to keep coal plants in operation rather than replacing them with cleaner natural gas or renewable energy projects.

    By 2030, according to administration officials, the proposal would cut CO2 emissions from 2005 levels by between 0.7 percent and 1.5 percent, compared with a business-as-usual approach. Those reductions are equivalent to taking between 2.7 million and 5.3 million cars off the road.
    By comparison, the Obama administration’s Clean Power Plan would have reduced carbon dioxide emissions by about 19 percent during that same time frame. That is equivalent to taking 75 million cars out of circulation and preventing more than 365 million metric tons of carbon dioxide from entering the atmosphere…

    Elements of the proposed rule were first reported by the New York Times on Friday evening…
    The proposed rule, which does not yet have a name, has a 200-page preamble laying out the EPA’s reasoning for the sweeping changes…
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/new-trump-power-plant-plan-would-release-hundreds-of-millions-of-tons-of-co2-into-the-air/2018/08/18/be823078-a28e-11e8-83d2-70203b8d7b44_story.html?utm_term=.424f0360bb65

    original:

    Trump’s Plan for Coal Emissions: Let Coal States Regulate Them
    New York Times-17 Aug. 2018

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      pat

      not so fast WaPo.
      WaPo claimed NYT had the story first on 17 Aug; Vanity Fair had it on 15 Aug and credited Politico’s 14 Aug article (second link below) as the source:

      15 Aug: Vanity Fair: Trump’s E.P.A. Is Just Going to Let “Beautiful, Clean” Coal Plants Regulate Themselves
      The administration is about to unveil a plan allowing planet-destroying plants to opt out of following any rules at all.
      by Bess Levin
      Something you may have picked up on over the course of the 83 years during which Donald Trump has been president is that the guy loves him some coal. His obsession with the U.S.’s leading source of carbon emissions and one of the foremost causes of global climate change appears to stem from a few places: 1) the coal industry appeals both to right-wing industry execs who hate government regulations and to blue-collar miners who make up the president’s base; 2) it offers him an avenue through which to rail against killjoy tree-huggers and their insistence on protecting the environment and human health; and 3) it allows him to live in the past, i.e. when coal wasn’t a dying industry. These factors have led Trump to do things like fill his administration with coal veterans, prop up unprofitable coal plants under the guise of “national security,” and chip away at regulations like the Stream Protection rule, which prevented coal companies from dumping waste in streams—at the ceremony celebrating the stream rule’s abolishment, Trump called coal-industry workers “Special people, special workers,” and promised, “we’re bringing it back and we’re bringing it back fast.” Of course, this is all in spite of the fact that coal isn’t making a comeback, is polluting the air and water, and, according to the American Lung Association, kills 7,500 Americans each year. And now, Trump is poised to let coal plants opt out of regulations altogether.

      Politico reports that the White House is poised to unveil a climate-change proposal for coal-burning plants that would essentially allow them to flood the planet with greenhouse gas emissions to their heart’s content…
      https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/08/trump-epa-just-going-to-let-beautiful-clean-coal-plants-regulate-themselves

      Politico at least claims to have seen a portion of the “draft”:

      14 Aug: Politico: Exclusive: Draft details Trump’s plan for reversing Obama climate rule
      A portion of the rule obtained by POLITICO shows Trump’s EPA easing the planned limits on the pollution from power generators driving climate change.
      By EMILY HOLDEN
      The Trump administration is preparing to unveil its plan for undoing Barack Obama’s most ambitious climate regulation — offering a replacement that would do far less to reduce the greenhouse gas emissions that are warming the planet, according to POLITICO’s review of a portion of the unpublished draft…
      The White House Office of Management and Budget has finished reviewing the draft and sent it back to EPA this week…
      https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/14/trump-reverse-climate-rule-740066

      B’berg’s Dlouhy separately came up with headline almost exactly the same as WaPo’s, and it is these 2 pieces which are being carried elsewhere for now:

      18 Aug: Bloomberg: Trump’s Power-Plant Proposal May Increase U.S. Carbon Pollution
      By Jennifer A Dlouhy; With assistance by Eric Roston
      Release of the new plan, expected within days, comes during a summer dominated by wildfires and hotter-than-normal weather. Northern Europe has withered in a deadly heat wave. California recorded its hottest July on record as its forests burned on an unprecedented scale. At least 116 people in Japan have died this summer, with the country posting its highest-ever temperatures in July. Meanwhile, parts of India are dealing with the worst flooding in a century…

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    Dennis

    Please read the very enlightening comments posted by Michelle regarding the energy market money trail …

    http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2018/08/turnbull-everything-ive-done-on-energy-ive-done-to-reduce-prices-always-have-every-single-thingjust-.html

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    pat

    multiple links:

    18 Aug: Townhall: The Dawn of Climate Realism: Coal Surges Amid Climate Rhetoric
    by Vijay Jayaraj
    Many countries have been at the crisscross of warfare between anti-coal establishments and the traditional coal industry. Despite the elite-empowered and politically motivated worldwide campaign to phase out coal, demand for coal is on the rise!
    Coal has been “enemy No. 1” for the climate establishment. In fact, it would seem that the entire global warming movement is hinged upon the singular aim to eliminate coal from use.

    The proponents of CAGW believe that the primary contributor to this increase in temperature is the combustion of coal and the subsequent release of carbon dioxide gas into the atmosphere.
    However, peer-reviewed scientific journals by hundreds of scientists render many of these claims dubious at best. Here are just three of them…ETC

    This financial year, Coal India—India’s largest state-controlled coal mining company—saw its first-quarter profits jump 61 percent and its coal production rise 15.23 percent. India has a long-term vision to increase its coal output and has been vocal about “carbon imperialism” — a term it uses to define the attitude of the anti-coal climate establishment.
    In 2017, coal accounted for 60.4 percent of total energy consumption in China. The country’s coal production outputs for the first seven months of 2018 was 1.98 billion tons, 3.4 percent higher than the same period last year. China’s coal imports surged this July and hit a record high (29 million tons), beating the previous highest recorded monthly volume import (January 2014).

    But the surge in coal is not just limited to Asia.
    Russia’s coal production of 410 million tons was its highest since the Soviet era and is expected to reach 420 million tons this year. The coal industry is set to expand in the coming years with massive infrastructure upgrades.
    U.S. coal output reached a 16-year high in 2017 (701 million tons), after a change in leadership that saw the lifting of heavy restrictions on coal from the previous administration. Coal output in 2017 was 40.8 million tons higher than in 2016, and India was the top importer of U.S. coal in Asia (13 million tons)…
    And coal is expected to do fairly well in the U.S. despite the disruption from the natural gas boom…

    It can also be said that the climate rhetoric has failed to break the world’s dependence on coal. And for good reason. Coal remains among the cheapest, and technically simplest, sources of the abundant, affordable, reliable electricity indispensable to the modern industry and technology that are indispensable to lifting and keeping whole societies out of poverty.
    Leaders across the globe understand the indispensable role of coal in their economies. They are also beginning to understand the exaggerated nature of climate-change dangers promoted heavily in the mainstream media…

    Overblown climate-change rhetoric is leading rapidly to the downfall of the climate establishment, and nations are moving past it at a rapid pace.
    https://townhall.com/columnists/vijayjayaraj/2018/08/18/the-dawn-of-climate-realism-coal-surges-amidst-climate-rhetoric-n2510377

    17 Aug: CNS News: Trump Fuel Economy Proposal Puts Brakes on Obama’s All-Pain-No-Gain Global Warming Crusade
    By Steve Milloy
    President Trump wants to get you into a new car of your choice for less money and sooner rather than later. To make that happen, his administration has just proposed to eliminate the pointless and expensive fuel economy standards for cars and light trucks issued by the Obama administration in 2012…

    The carmakers acquiesced to the Obama rule in 2012 because they had just been bailed out of the 2008-2009 financial crisis by the Obama administration and, at the time, no one could imagine a future Trump deregulatory juggernaut. Carmakers also felt that they could always negotiate with the government in the future for time to meet the standards in the event no feasible technology was developed…

    The proposal is estimated by the Trump NHTSA/EPA to save consumers about $2,300 per new car and also to save about 1,000 lives per year, based on consumers being able to afford newer and safer cars sooner and also because higher fuel costs will curb driving.
    While the proposal is estimated to increase daily fuel consumption by two to three percent, the good news is that it is no longer the 1970s as we are awash in oil. The Energy Information Administration estimated that in 2019, the U.S. will be the world’s leading producer of oil, topping its 1970 peak of 9.6 million barrels per day by 2.2 million barrels…

    Though more gasoline would be burned, the Trump EPA estimates that it will make precious little difference to climate (for those who fret about that). If implemented, the proposal is estimated to increase atmospheric carbon dioxide levels from 789.11 parts per million (under the Obama standards) to 789.76 parts per million by the year 2100 ¾ an 0.08 percent difference. That difference in carbon dioxide level translates into an estimated temperature difference of about 0.003 degrees Celsius ¾ a difference that is not even detectable. The proposal will also have no detectable impact on U.S. air quality.
    An important part of the Trump proposal removes California’s ability to be the de facto fuel economy standard setter for the nation, a role Congress had intended for the federal government – not any one state…

    The Trump proposal would replace the Obama standards’ all-pain-and-no-gain global warming crusade with greater consumer choice, cost savings, improved safety and constitutional government. Sign me up for a new Trump car.
    https://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/steve-milloy/trump-fuel-economy-proposal-puts-brakes-obamas-all-pain-no-gain-global

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    David Maddison

    Can you run a gasoline engine on crude oil straight out of the ground?

    https://youtu.be/L99EybPORKk

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      Robber

      Yes, but don’t expect long engine life, as the diesel and heavy fuel oil components will lay down carbon deposits through incomplete combustion.

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      Hanrahan

      Isn’t marine “bunker oil” virtually crude oil?

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        Chris in Hervey Bay

        Generally, marine “bunker oil” is used to fire boilers to produce steam for the turbines.

        Then you have “IDO”, Industrial Diesel Oil, which can be diesel oil which is coloured black and attracts a lower rate of tax.

        IDO can also be a blend which is slightly heavier than blackened diesel, they use that in the railways and shipping etc.

        Then there is the normal diesel which you get at the service stations, “ADO”, Automotive Diesel Oil.

        A while back, GM, Detroit, and Cummings manufactured in the USA, a range of diesel engines for the bus and coach industry and they required a special fuel oil that was almost “power kerosene”. That idea was abandoned as the fuel was too expensive in small volumes.

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      Chris in Hervey Bay

      I worked in the oil fields out at Eromanga some years back, and the beam pumps were powered by a 4 cylinder Caterpillar diesel engine fueled by the crude oil right out of the ground, with filtering. Problem was, on cold mornings, the wax in the crude would solidify and the engines would starve and stop. To over come this, we piped hot cooling water through 1/4 inch copper tube wrapped around the fuel lines.

      It is very light crude out there, almost as thin as diesel and yellow/green in colour.

      The government had a problem with this as they didn’t know how to tax the crude being used by the pumps.

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        yarpos

        core of the problem is that crude oil is a very non uniform resource to try and design to

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          yarpos

          Always regarded the refining process as special magic. To take something as varied as crude oil and create a range of very specifc high quality products is quite brilliant to me. Used to work for Shell and loved any opportunity to walk around a refinery and try to understand even at a basic level what was going on.

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            Robber

            The basic refining process is distillation. Boil off LPG, then naphtha (for further catalytic refining into gasoline with higher aromatics content), then kerosene, then diesel. Next step remove sulphur compounds. What’s left is residual fuel oil that boils above 380 degrees. That can be further vacuum distilled before sending to a cracker to produce more gasoline and diesel. And bottom of the barrel is asphalt.

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    pat

    from Guardian article – comment #38 above -

    National Grid’s dual role as builder of interconnectors and manager of balancing electricity supplies has also raised questions about its ***vested interests…

    try finding a break-down of who owns National Grid PLC. following is only a tiny proportion of the company:

    6 Aug: FairfieldCurrent: National Grid plc (NGG) Shares Bought by JPMorgan Chase & Co.
    JPMorgan Chase & Co. raised its holdings in National Grid plc (NYSE:NGG) by 500.0% during the 1st quarter, according to the company in its most recent disclosure with the SEC. The firm owned 31,304 shares of the utilities provider’s stock after buying an additional 26,087 shares during the quarter. JPMorgan Chase & Co.’s holdings in National Grid were worth $1,766,000 as of its most recent SEC filing.
    A number of other institutional investors and hedge funds have also modified their holdings of NGG. Wells Fargo & Company MN lifted its holdings in National Grid by 6.5% during the 1st quarter. Wells Fargo & Company MN now owns 1,731,998 shares of the utilities provider’s stock worth $97,737,000 after purchasing an additional 104,956 shares in the last quarter. Equity Investment Corp purchased a new stake in shares of National Grid in the 1st quarter valued at about $70,348,000. Jane Street Group LLC raised its holdings in shares of National Grid by 645.3% in the 4th quarter. Jane Street Group LLC now owns 905,316 shares of the utilities provider’s stock valued at $53,242,000 after acquiring an additional 783,842 shares in the last quarter. Northern Trust Corp raised its holdings in shares of National Grid by 3.9% in the 1st quarter. Northern Trust Corp now owns 587,291 shares of the utilities provider’s stock valued at $33,141,000 after acquiring an additional 22,225 shares in the last quarter. Finally, Millennium Management LLC raised its holdings in shares of National Grid by 226.9% in the 4th quarter. Millennium Management LLC now owns 338,241 shares of the utilities provider’s stock valued at $19,892,000 after acquiring an additional 234,773 shares in the last quarter. 5.40% of the stock is currently owned by hedge funds and other institutional investors.

    Apr 2018: 4-Traders: National Grid : Appointment of Joint Corporate Broker
    National Grid plc is pleased to announce that it has appointed J.P. Morgan Cazenove with immediate effect as joint Corporate Broker alongside Barclays Bank PLC, who remain joint Corporate Broker.

    Cazenove, now owned by JP Morgan, was known as “the Queens’s broker”:

    Wikipedia: Cazenove was a British stockbroker and investment bank, founded in 1823 by Philip Cazenove. It was one of the UK’s last independent investment banks and one of the last to remain a private partnership. The main parts of the business were acquired by JPMorgan Chase in 2009 with the remains being sold to other financial institutions…
    The Partnership was well known for its ‘blue-blooded’ reputation and its complete aversion to publicity…
    Although the firm refused to comment on its relations to the Royal Family, it was widely assumed that it is the appointed stockbroker to Her Majesty The Queen…

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    pat

    what about our water?

    3 Jul: AFR: Blue Sky muddies its water, disproves nothing
    by Joe Aston
    Brisbane’s own Blackstone, Blue Sky Alternative Investments, came out swinging on Tuesday morning, vowing it “categorically rejects any suggestion that its activities in Australia’s water markets … are illegitimate, lack due process and governance, or are inconsistent with principles of the National Water Initiative to promote markets to allow water to trade to its highest and best use”…
    But what Blue Sky’s intended rebuttal actually meant would mystify a water policy bureaucrat as much as a farmer (perhaps literally) within a bull’s roar of the Murray-Darling’s receding bank.

    Blue Sky’s chief Kim Morison told this newspaper last week that his water fund accounted for 10 to 20 per cent of monthly purchases of all Australian water rights, but in “probably about 25″ (or 8.3 per cent) of 300 types of those rights…
    Yet the company protested to the ASX on Tuesday morning that its “total deployment in six years since the inception of the Water Fund … represents only 2.2 per cent of the value of relevant Water Entitlements on issue in these various regions” and that its “investment in Water Entitlements has represented an average of only 3.2 per cent of the registered monthly turnover across the Murray-Darling Basin’s water markets since 2012″, a number arrived at with the following footnote…ETC

    This mob is truly beyond shame. Days ago, it was claiming to soak up as much as a fifth of all bundled Australian water assets. That suddenly being terrifyingly inconvenient, it’s now supposedly a H2O market minnow. Were they telling the truth last week, on Tuesday, or on neither occasion?…
    And like Blue Sky’s first indignant response to Glaucus in April, in which it invoked the authority of its auditor Ernst & Young and its investment partner, Goldman Sachs’ special situations fund, this time we were force-fed the names of other firms Blue Sky is now shamelessly rent-seeking the credibility of: IOOF, Link Fund Solutions, Kilter Rural and Aware Water Group…

    As for the footnote, a significant proportion of irrigators in the Murray-Darling Basin share water entitlements on one bulk deed and then trade their percentage of it. None of their trading volume is public, and so that’s the (material) part of the market Blue Sky, which counted it last week, has suddenly decided to exclude from its latest portrayal of itself this week…
    https://www.afr.com/brand/rear-window/blue-sky-muddies-its-water-disproves-nothing-20180703-h1277p

    not sure how much of the following, which has been re-posted at Global Research, is now outdated:

    31 Jul: Global Research: The New “Water Barons”: Wall Street Mega-Banks are Buying up the World’s Water
    By Jo-Shing Yang
    This article was first published on December 21, 2012 by Market Oracle and Global Research.
    Familiar mega-banks and investing powerhouses such as Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, Citigroup, UBS, Deutsche Bank, Credit Suisse, Macquarie Bank, Barclays Bank, the Blackstone Group, Allianz, and HSBC Bank, among others, are consolidating their control over water…READ ALL
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-new-water-barons-wall-street-mega-banks-are-buying-up-the-worlds-water/5383274

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      pat

      don’t know quite what to make of this, but given the banking interests now involved in our water, it’s worth a read:

      Aug 2016: MurrayDarlingBasinCitizensAssocn: Professor John Briscoe: The Water Act of 2007 was founded on a political deception
      The Secretary The Standing Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs of the Senate Canberra Australia
      Dear Sir/Madam: Thank you for your invitation (email from the Secretary of, dated 14 February 2011) to make a submission to the Inquiry into provisions of the Water Act 2007…

      Why I make this submission:
      For many years I was the Senior Water Advisor at the World Bank. In that capacity I visited Australia in 1996 and became interested in the emerging Australian experience with water management, especially in the Murray Darling Basin. Over the intervening period I have followed developments closely, have visited Australia several times, and interacted with many Australian water professionals, in Australia and overseas.
      Two years ago I left the World Bank to assume a position as Gordon McKay Professor of Environmental Engineering at Harvard University, where I direct the Harvard Water Program…

      90% of the political and public blame was placed on “institutional response”. To cite just two (important) examples: The Honorable Malcolm Turnbull, author of the Water Act 2007 claims that “our water management has been extraordinarily ill informed in years past”…and the MDBA’s ill-fated Guide to the Basin Plan asserts that “over the past few decades….the focus has swung to looking at economics …and the role of the environment has been overlooked.”…

      The Politics of the Water Act 2007
      The Act was hatched in a very short time, with very little consultation with any of Australia’s great water professionals or its innovative farmers.
      In the eyes of the architects of the Water Act, it was necessary to take power away from those who had made a mess of things (the States and farmers) and put it in the hands of the enlightened in Canberra. A major challenge was how to deal with the matter of the Constitution, which had given the states powers over water management, and which underpinned the inter-state consensual processes which had been the institutional bedrock of the MDB Commission. The primary author of the 2007 Act, the Honorable Malcolm Turnbull, is quite explicit about this. “In the 1890s our founding fathers missed a big opportunity when they drafted our Constitution in not putting the management of interstate waters under federal jurisdiction. In 2007 we rectified that mistake with the Water Act” (Malcolm Turnbull “The Water Act and the Basin Plan, December 9, 2010…

      Because constitutional amendments are not simple, and definitely cannot be done over a weekend before an election, the authors of the Water Act 2007 had to find legal cover for usurping state powers. An alert and enterprising environmental lawyer found the fig-leaf, which was the ***Ramsar Convention, which the Commonwealth Government had signed, committing itself to protecting wetlands which are critical for migratory birds.

      To avoid a constitutional crisis, the Commonwealth had to build the Water Act around this fig leaf. So the Act became an environmental act, which was all it really could be, since it was in the name of the commonwealth’s obligations to ***an obscure international environmental convention that it was taking powers from the states.
      And so the fundamentals of the Act were born – an environmental act in which Canberra would tell states and communities and farmers what to do…

      Digging deep into the turgid 236 pages of the Water Act for confirmatory phrases, the Honorable Malcolm Turnbull claims, now, that the Act was all about balance.
      To a disinterested reader this is poppycock…
      Similarly, the High-Level Review Panel for the Murray Darling Basin Plan (of which I was a member) stated that “The driving value of the Act is that a triple-bottom-line approach (environment, economic, social) is replaced by one in which environment becomes the overriding objective, with the social and economic spheres required to “do the best they can” with whatever is left once environmental needs are addressed.“…

      The Act is based on an extraordinary logic, namely that science will determine what the environment needs and that the task for government (including the MDBA) is then just to “do what science tells it to do”…
      https://mdbca.com/2016/08/23/professor-john-briscoe-the-water-act-of-2007-was-founded-on-a-political-deception/

      Turnbull/UN convention/UNEP/UNDP/WWF/Nature Conservancy, COPS every 3 years – sounds too familiar:

      Wikipedia: Ramsar Convention
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramsar_Convention

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    pat

    comment re “what about our water?” is in moderation.

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    Dave

    Christopher Pyne has started DAMAGE CONTROL!
    He’s got a link on His Poodle Twitter account one hour ago to this:

    Malcolm Turnbull Facebook VIDEO
    https://www.facebook.com/malcolmturnbull/videos/636148486785508/

    Four & half minutes of NEG WAFFLE again – this mob are NOT listening to the public at all
    Get RID of the NEG, RET, PARIS, and all the subsidies that are driving energy prices through the roof!

    The BLACK HANDERS are popping themselves at the moment!

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    Peter C

    It is Hard not to feel sorry for Turnbull!

    Sydney Morning Herald Journo Sean Kelly grieves for Malcom, says he is being punished.

    It is hard not to feel a little sorry for the man. On Tuesday, emerging from his party room meeting, he glowed with satisfaction. After months of squabbling, Coalition MPs had backed his energy policy. Across the land, reporters hailed it as an important victory.

    https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/comment-he-is-being-punished-the-real-reason-turnbull-is-under-siege/ar-BBM6X6O?ocid=spartanntp

    I suggest that you do not read the rest.

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    Ian George

    ABC news just had a ‘climate change scare’ report re California and Sweden and their fires. Ironically, these are two areas that are right into CO2 emissions (Sweden has a 90% nuclear and hydro mix).

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      yarpos

      They were probably disappointed that the Sweden fire is out, it didnt help the “northern hemisphere is burning!” narrative just showing a bit of burnt pine forest.

      They seemed agog that you can have fires above the arctic circle in summer. I guess we should just be grateful that we dont get much climate propaganda out of Russia.

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    RickWill

    I just watched the ABC news – not a normal nighttime activity. There was a special report on all the fires across the globe. Sweden got a large slice of the report.

    The journalism was sensational about climate change and there was no serious investigation.

    Twelve years ago I visited Germany and looked through an explosives factory set in a heavily forested location. If it was Australia it would be the last place to set an explosive factory. I was quite surprised that there was no history of fires in the location. It struck me that Europe was destined to burn given the apathy and amount of fuel in close proximity to factories and houses.

    The report on the ABC reminded me of the observations in Germany.

    An uncontroversial result of increasing atmospheric CO2 is increased plant productivity. It is quite clear that the productivity of Sweden’s forest have improved dramatically over the last century:
    https://www.swedishwood.com/about_wood/choosing-wood/wood-and-the-environment/the-forest-and-sustainable-forestry/
    Obviously with increasing volume and density come increasing fire risk unless management practices are improved.

    I expect that this increase in plant productivity globally is causing an acceleration in fuel loads and requires improved management. Without better practices there are bound to be more forest fires. These are not the result of changing climate; rather the result that plants are growing faster and increase the fuel load.

    My own experience with tress around our house is that they need to be cut back regularly otherwise they are at high risk of suffering damaged in not so strong winds. If not cut back they quickly become top heavy with the rapid rate of growth.

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    el gordo

    NSW farmers have lost faith in BoM and have resorted to natural weather lore.

    https://www.9news.com.au/national/2018/08/17/07/01/frustrated-farmers-turn-on-bom-forecasting

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    el gordo

    Antarctic blast impacts south east Australia.

    http://www.bom.gov.au/fwo/IDY65100.pdf

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    pat

    17 Aug: news.com.au: Tobias Jones: Mafia blamed for using ‘weakened cement’ on Italy’s infrastructure
    Tuesday’s disaster was the tenth bridge to collapse in Italy in the last five years alone, and anti-Mafia campaigners in the country are warning that hundreds of schools, hospitals and airports may also be at risk of collapse, The Sun reports.
    That’s because the Mafia saves money by using a cement which is “cut” with sand, vastly reducing its strength.
    It’s called, in Italian, cemento depotenziato which translates as weakened cement. It’s like trying to put up shelves using sticky tape…

    But the big worry now is that hundreds of structures throughout Italy could be at risk.
    Legambiente, an anti-Mafia pressure group, has warned that weakened cement has been used at Trapani and Palermo airports in Sicily, as well as in schools, car parks, bridges and motorways throughout the peninsula.
    Back in 2009, in a situation eerily similar to this week’s bridge collapse, 37 people lost their lives during flash floods in the Sicilian city of Messina.
    Buildings simply collapsed in the rain because inadequate cement had been used in the construction of houses…

    17 Aug: Reuters: Italy acts to revoke motorway concession after bridge collapse
    by Ilaria Polleschi; Philip Pullella, Steve Scherer and Gavin Jones, additional reporting by Matteo Berlenga in Genoa, Stephen Jewkes and Valentina Za in Milan
    “Today the government…has formally sent to Autostrade per l’Italia the letter of complaint which launches the process for revoking the concession,” Conte said in a statement.
    The statement said the disaster was the fault of the company which “had the obligation to look after the ordinary and extraordinary maintenance of the motorway”…

    Some sector experts estimate that if it revokes the concession the government will have to pay Autostrade up to 20 billion euros ($22.85 billion) in compensation for investments the firm has made, though the government denies this…
    Shares in Atlantia, parent company of Autostrade, plunged more than 30 percent after the bridge collapse in Genoa on Tuesday, but recovered somewhat on Friday, closing up 5.7 percent…

    ***Atlantia is controlled by the holding company for the ***Benetton family, famous for its clothing empire…

    ***the ultra-PC Benettons:

    2007: UK Independent: Luciano Benetton: The green billionaire
    The super-rich have been getting a bad press recently. But Luciano Benetton remains committed to doing his bit for the planet – on a very grand scale. Peter Popham reports
    This is the way Luciano Benetton sails off into the sunset…
    She is called Tribù, and she is a 50m-long revolution: the first luxury yacht built to the same standards of environmental purity as the latest generation of cruise liners and cargo ships. She is the first ship of this type to be awarded a “Green Star” certificate of environmental efficiency…

    His firm was ahead of its time in stressing environmental concerns in its factories and offices, he says, and he has put those same values first – above price and speed, for example – in his new toy. “This was my choice,” he says, “and a perfectly natural one, in line with the philosophy of the Benetton Group, which has always paid attention to environmental questions. I am very pleased that Tribù will be the first ship of this type to get a certificate.

    “The requirements for the certificate are complex: you need special equipment for the treatment of waste water and rubbish, the separate collection of different types of waste aboard, the elimination of emissions which damage the ozone layer. I believe that respect for the sea and for nature in general is the duty of everyone, and for those who sail and who love the sea above all. And the dangers of global warming remind us of that fact every day, ever more urgently.”…

    And after much turmoil over the management of the company last year, Luciano now seems satisfied that his son, Alessandro, 43, educated at Harvard Business School and a former mergers and acquisitions analyst in London for Goldman Sachs, has what it takes to keep the firm growing strongly…

    This week at the Monte Carlo Yacht Show, Mr Benetton was awarded a trophy in recognition of the new ship’s “environmental compatibility”. But while building a boat to the most rigorous environmental standards raises the cost, it is more than merely a gesture of public morality, a way to make the other moguls look cheap. Certificate in hand, Mr Benetton can sail his boat wherever he likes, including protected areas barred to conventional, polluting vessels. As ever, style and substance go hand-in-hand…

    Other feel-good billionaires
    Richard Branson…
    John Doerr
    Californian venture capitalist who helped launch both Amazon and Google…
    Tulsi Tanti
    Indian entrepreneur whose Suzlon Energy, worth £4bn, is the most valuable wind-energy company in the world…
    Ted Turner
    Also created DT Solar, a renewable-energy company, with the intention of building industrial-scale solar panel plants.
    Rubens Ometto Silveira Mello
    Described by Forbes as the first ethanol tycoon.
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/luciano-benetton-the-green-billionaire-403098.html

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    pat

    ***unbelievable:

    19 Aug: SMH: Fairfax-Ipsos poll: Voter support collapses as Peter Dutton leans towards challenging Malcolm Turnbull
    By Peter Hartcher & David Crowe
    An exclusive Fairfax-Ipsos poll shows the Coalition has suffered a horror slump in its primary vote from 39 to 33 per cent over the past month amid open disputes on energy and speculation over the leadership.
    In its worst result since early last year, the Coalition now trails Labor by 45 to 55 per cent in two-party terms in a result that would cost the government more than 20 seats at a general election…

    One cabinet minister said MPs were increasing their support for Mr Turnbull due to concerns the elevation of Mr Dutton to the leadership would be followed by the restoration of Mr Abbott to the cabinet, either in the defence or home affairs portfolio…

    ***A narrow majority of voters back the NEG, with 54 per cent in favour while 22 per cent are against it and 24 per cent are unsure.
    ***Support for the flagship energy policy is strongest among Coalition voters, at 64 per cent, but the scheme is also backed by 59 per cent of Labor voters and 44 per cent of Greens voters.

    ***Even so, 56 per cent of all voters believe the government is doing too little to address climate change amid the argument over the scale of the cuts to greenhouse gas emissions in the new scheme.
    In a sign of discontent among conservative voters, the number who believe the government is doing too much on climate change has jumped from 7 to 13 per cent of all respondents since Fairfax-Ipsos asked the same question three years ago…

    The slump in the Coalition’s primary vote is expected to trigger a storm over the findings, as Mr Turnbull and his allies warn against placing too much faith in the polls.
    “The poll is robust and reliable, conducted to the same methodology as used for the Fairfax-Ipsos polls since 2014,” said Ipsos public affairs director Jess Elgood…
    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/fairfax-ipsos-poll-voter-support-collapses-as-peter-dutton-leans-towards-challenging-malcolm-turnbull-20180819-p4zye9.html

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      TdeF

      “One cabinet minister said MPs were increasing their support for Mr Turnbull due to concerns the elevation of Mr Dutton to the leadership would be followed by the restoration of Mr Abbott to the cabinet, either in the defence or home affairs portfolio…”

      That sounds like a SMH scary movie. The horror of Tony Abbott back in any position of power, universally feared by Liberal MPs no less. The SMH does not even want him in Cabinet. Abbott, the undead, the Catholic, the vampire of the Liberals, the nosferatu so feared by Fairfax journalists. He is coming for your soul!

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    john

    Windmill blade company to foght serious OSHA violations:

    https://amp.desmoinesregister.com/amp/923225002

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    Hanrahan

    Meant to do this y’day.

    Vale Aretha

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtBbyglq37E

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    DOC

    With the USA out of Paris, others are sure to follow. China trimming its solar panels businesses shows this is its assessment as well. Trump strikes again.

    Now, in Australia Turnbull and Bishop show just how little they realise what is happening in the world of ‘Climate Change’ (nee financial raping of successful Western Democracies back into the second world twilight) as they raced in to sign up to Paris after immediately after Donald pulled out the USA. The typical tunnelvision of the true blue believers in ….’internationalisation’ of governance and a job after politics.

    Two things more. The march of the left through the Institutions is much deeper than that. It has marched into the Head Offices of Big Businesses and it has marched straight into the Liberal Party. So the second thing is, we have all heard of the ‘evil’ of the Industrial-Military complex, but that’s chicken feed to what the Democracies are facing now with Big Business, old and modern media and politics forming a hugely negative complex for the citizens of this country and the government feeding taxpayer funds and applying legal constraints on the populace accordingly. imo

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