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Turnbull faces “sizable revolt” over energy prices and Paris agreement

Normally a governing party, especially with a margin of “one”, would consult with its own members before it consulted with the opposition. Turnbull’s gambit appeared to depend on sneaking the plan past the conservatives and libertarian skeptics.

Turnbull in bid to quash NEG rebellion

Simon Benson, Joe Kelly, The Australian

It emerged last night that Labor had been given a copy of the NEG legislation, another move that has angered Coalition MPs who are yet to see it.  A Liberal rebel told The Australian it was “disgusting” that Labor had the legislation but they were being asked to sign off on it sight unseen.

To forestall a revolt, Turnbull is said to be giving ground on all kinds of things, like ways to stop the big retailers gaming the market, but not “Paris”?

However, senior ministers have told The Australian this would not be enough to prevent Coalition MPs crossing the floor if the 26 per cent Paris emissions reduction target was not dumped or “decoupled” from the NEG.

The move to cauterise the growing threat of internal revolt came as the Prime Minister’s most senior conservative minister, Peter Dutton, suggested there could be a time when he resigned from cabinet over policy – which would trigger a leadership crisis.

Dennis Shanahan: Dogs are barking over PM’s leadership on energy prices

There is also growing discontent with Turnbull’s political leadership as ministers are caught in a crossfire of demands that they resign or stay and head off a leadership crisis.

But the focus remains on the energy legislation, which went from being “ready to go” to a “moveable feast” and threatens to end up looking like a dog’s breakfast as every man and his dog offer up ideas and proposals from price control to “decoupling” from the Paris emissions target.

Not enough time was spent earlier to address the concerns of the Coalition partyroom and so avoid what is now a sizeable revolt…

All roads lead to Paris?

Turnbull, apparently is “wedded” to his plan to be the only nation on Earth to legislate and mandate the Paris target. He knows carbon taxes and emissions trading schemes are widely unpopular or he wouldn’t have buried the “success” of his achievement getting a secret emissions trading scheme through Parliament. (One the World Bank is very pleased about). He’s not glued to Paris for the votes. Nor is he doing it for the environment, surely, since all these international schemes achieve notoriously little except for funding some banker yachts.  Turnbull is a smart guy, if he was serious about reducing carbon, he’d be talking about nuclear power, and the cheapest ways to reduce CO2, like supercritical coal, Abbott’s auctions, and anything-other-than-solar. Why the fixation with foreign committee dictats?

Radical — Senator Eric Abetz thinks electricity prices are more important than the PM’s career or the appearance of “unity”:

Senior Liberal Eric Abetz says ­Coalition MPs should put cheaper power prices ahead of political unity …  MPs should not consider the short-term political consequences for Malcolm Turnbull of defeat of the NEG.

“I don’t think the next generation will thank us for putting unity, in inverted commas, before doing the right thing by the ­nation,” he said.

M.P. George Christiansen wants a list of NEG changes:

If it were up to me I’d say RET target “0″. Paris, “0″. We need more competition in generation, a clean market, and the free market will get coal plants running without a subsidy. Christiansen, presumably, has to work within the current NEG plan. I’m grateful he’s one of the few brave enough to speak up:

Joe Kelly, The Australian

The demands — exclusively obtained by The Australian — include the creation of a new clean coal fund, a cut in the NEG’s emissions reduction target from 26 to 17 per cent and changes that would allow the competition watchdog to keep AGL’s Liddell coal fired power plant operating in NSW beyond its planned 2022 closure date.

[He] is also asking for a range of other measures including the implementation of a price target in the architecture of the NEG, an increase to the pensioner energy supplement and the adoption of all 56 recommendations of the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission’s recent report on the electricity market.

“If I am being asked to vote for an emissions reduction target based on the Paris agreement, I would have to vote against it,” Mr Christensen told The Australian. “I will be voting against it.”

Revolt is in the air:

Another Nationals MP, Keith Pitt,  “is understood to be considering standing down from the frontbench over his concerns with the NEG.”

Write to your local Liberal or National member. Turn the screws.

h/t TdeF

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Turnbull faces "sizable revolt" over energy prices and Paris agreement, 9.6 out of 10 based on 85 ratings

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209 comments to Turnbull faces “sizable revolt” over energy prices and Paris agreement

  • #
    Kinky Keith

    Faith in the liberal party has been given a boost by the comments of Senator Abetz and MP George Christiansen.

    There is only one realistic choice to be made on behalf of this great nation which has been treated so badly over the last decade by its grasping politicians.

    We must reject the Paris Accord for what it is;
    a shabby political piece of Social Engineering dressed up to look like Science.

    There is absolutely no scientific basis for the contention that CO2 can somehow produce a special heating effect in the Earth’s atmosphere.

    The whole point of this large scale manipulation is to drain money from our pockets send it to various out of sight hideyholes through exorbitant profits for renewables.

    The recent more visible deposit in the great big barrier reef foundation has been given little attention since Paris became a major issue. Interesting.

    The devastation of apparently civilised nations in Europe by the mass movement of people brought on by manipulative politicians is appalling. How could that happen.

    We managed to control that scam to some extent, being helped by the fact that we are an island; but they sure got us with electricity.

    Time to think about our future and Reject our would be Presidents scheme for what is.

    Manipulation based on a lie.

    444 T

    KK

    480

    • #

      It’s about time that Turnbull had his ‘Second Comeuppance’ and be ousted like before over his utterly stupid renewables plans. The Liberal Party is doomed if they continue to support Turnbull. Ousting him may not save the party at the next election, but keeping him may well mean a devastating loss.

      410

      • #
        beowulf

        His first comeuppance should have been enough. If Turnbull goes, what of the Insect and Josh and Pyne? Will the Black Hand have its daggers out again? Will Your ABC sit quietly and accept the will of the Party?

        Mal will create as much destruction as he can on the way out. You know he will. There will be an almighty dummy-spit as his ego deflates marginally.

        290

        • #

          He’ll try his best, but what have the real Liberals got to lose? As for the spineless Turnbull supporters, they’ll collapse the moment they know that the game is up. As for Their ABC, the true Liberal Party has nothing to lose.

          240

          • #
            PeterS

            That’s another point. The new leader should announce he will stop funding the ABC who are undoubtedly a publicity organisation for the ALP and Greens unless they comply with their charter for balanced reporting and debate within 6 months. It is insane for taxpayers money to be used to prop up a propaganda group for one side of politics. That sort of thing happens only in dictatorships.

            320

            • #

              That wouldn’t be a good move politically, not yet anyway. But down the track Their ABC does need to be looked at and its roles reviewed.

              60

            • #
              el gordo

              Peter we need to keep the ABC until the masses have been debriefed on climate change, then we can dismantle it.

              Your revolutionary zeal is extraordinary, may I suggest we get rid of the Trots from the newsroom for starters. Bringing back balance would be a breath of fresh air.

              70

              • #
                PeterS

                When one has a splinter in them that’s causing much aggravation you don’t keep pushing it back in. You pull it out. Once it’s out the pain goes away.

                60

              • #
                el gordo

                I want to see a Catalyst show which states that the plateau in world temperatures for 19 years proves CO2 is a harmless trace gas and has no effect on weather.

                112

          • #
          • #
            cohenite

            If turnball is removed there will be an election immediately because he will take his bat and ball and go and play with lucy. That will end the 1 seat majority and the lower house confidence.

            40

      • #
        PeterG

        Unfortunately, if Malcolm (President in Waiting) Turnbull is punted, he will immediately resign from parliament thereby putting the government into a position whereby it may not survive a no confidence vote. I believe he is that sort of shallow vindictive person.

        240

        • #

          Yes, Peter, he will do that, as lightly and cynically as he dished out that $444 million dollars. He has cost us till now and he will go on costing us. Because he is a globalist appointee and a silk-suit collectivist but also because he is a low, common fellow.

          He will do damage on the way out like any low, common type, but there is no other place for him than out.

          260

          • #
            Sceptical Sam

            My take on that is to say” “Go!”. Get out. Bye-bye you boofhead.

            They might lose the next election. They might not too. And they probably won’t if they select a leader who exits Paris, knocks-off the NEG and demands onshore gas exploration.

            No sensible clear thinking Australian wants Shorten or his Labor clowns back in power.

            The sooner mad Malcolm is gone the sooner the Party can start to mend the damage he has caused.

            50

      • #
        Dennis

        There are now many reasons for Liberal and National MPs to feel the need to rid themselves of PM Turnbull but the handing over of NEG legislation to Shorten Labor before Coalition MPs have had the opportunity to read the fine print is intolerable.

        Turnbull crossed the floor against the wishes of the majority of his then Coalition Opposition to vote with Rudd Labor for an ETS and as a result, the last straw, Tony Abbott was drafted to replace him in 2009.

        http://www.stopturnbull.com

        The contents of the above website reveals a long time Labor man masquerading as a Liberal, that last person I would vote for to be leader.

        201

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          So that should answer whether he is left wing or right wing then.

          The fix is in…..the Occult-driven globalists are waging their war on Australia….

          40

      • #
        shannon

        Getting Labor/Greens onside by revealing the intimate details of the NEG and seemly withholding them from his own party …reveals ALL conservatives need to know about Malcolm …..

        Malcolm is ONLY loyal ….to Malcolm at any cost.

        Get rid of this traitor !

        90

        • #
          ivan

          Actually I think you will find that his loyalty is the banksters that control the money. He does what they want to increase their profits at the expense of the nation.

          10

  • #
    Just Thinkin'

    My latest e-mail to my local member, Andrew Wallace.

    Good morning Andrew,

    I hope you have been sleeping well.

    I see that the leader of The Malcolm Turnbulls

    Liberal Party has been colluding with the ALP,

    without letting you know that he had done this.

    If you and our other representatives continue to

    accede to Mal’s rush over the cliff, then what I said in my previous

    e-mails stands.

    Enjoy your final term in federal parliament.

    Have a terrific day.

    Cheers,

    Me.

    391

    • #
      PeterG

      Can we all please send an email to our local members and selected ministers letting them know exactly what we think and what we intend to do with our votes.

      I belong to the vote for Labour before Liberal to hasten the collapse camp. This is so that we, hopefully, have not let our infrastructure decay beyond recovery whereas a slow Liberal collapse may lead to irrecoverable decay in infrastructure.

      Also the loss of primary votes costs the party electoral funding. So put a minor party first.

      180

      • #
        el gordo

        Strongly advise against voting Labor under any circumstances, they will join Beijing’s B & R with infrastructure on steroids.

        130

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          The one thing that will derail the globalists and their putrid agenda, is if minor parties topple the main parties…..then it will be worth getting a years supply of popcorn and settle in…should be very amusing.

          Iceland had the right idea – start jailing the Banksters and go from there….

          90

      • #
        PeterS

        Oh come on! Vote for a minor party before voting ALP or LNP. We need to smash the LNP AND the ALP not just one of them.

        240

      • #

        Done and requested that it be passed on.

        70

  • #
    Rosco

    The climate catastrophe media bandwagon has ratcheted up significantly recently and yet no-one in the media has reported that electricity generation is responsible for less than 1/3rd of Australia’s emissions. If the NEG succeeded on reducing TOTAL electricity generation emissions then apparently Australia will achieve a 0.26 x 0.3 x 0.015 = 0.00117 reduction in global emissions or 0.117% – the result is tiny and insignificant.

    The people who promote such stuff are insane – there can be no other description for them.

    350

    • #
      Mal

      One molecule of CO2 in ten million parts of the atmosphere is Australias target.
      Pointless

      150

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      That is assuming that more wind turbines will reduce Australia’s emissions. Germany now has 28,000+ turbines but hasn’t reduced its emissions in 9 years. But it intends getting rid of most subsidies so suddenly companies in the renewables scam are going out of business.
      Ireland tried to reduce its emissions with a combination of CCGTs (lowest emissions in conventional methods) and wind turbines. They got a small reduction (9.2% v 17% wind capacity installed) and now rely more on importing electricity from England and Scotland.

      130

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      “Insanity” is another term for ideology the general public dont understand.

      IMHO, the correct lens to bring all this into focus os that its religious war – waged by non-Christian New Age Occultists who hate humanity and want to drive it into the grave, literally. Such people, by admission in their own books, actively pursue massive population ( 95% ) reduction by whatever means necessary ( war/famine/bioweapons), and would view the deaths of many “useless eaters” as “benevolent”.

      Once you understand how they think, you can see it all happening in a highly organized and methodical way.

      They also state openly that they will try to coax people to take up their agenda, but will happily *force* people to buckle under if they dont take the carrot. I suspect what were seeing in Oz now is the forcing phase starting with power stations being forced off line and we will soon see the impact on quality of life……

      Both major parties are owned by these people, as both parties follow the same agenda.

      60

  • #
    beowulf

    If this Daily Mail article can be believed, Dutton may be almost at the point where he is ready to challenge Turnbull.

    The DM quoting an unnamed Lib in the Telegraph: “There are only two good outcomes here — either the energy policy is dead and we can go to the election fighting Labor on it, or Malcolm goes.”

    https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/conservative-mps-call-on-peter-dutton-to-seize-power-from-malcolm-turnbull-and-take-over-as-prime-minister-in-dramatic-leadership-coup/ar-BBM1eNI?ocid=spartandhp

    190

  • #
    TdeF

    This is the end for Turnbull. Bypassing his own party, he has had the temerity to go straight to the Labor party and I would guess to the Greens to get them to amend his bill to their liking. He is right. That would get through parliament at the total surrender of government to the opposition.

    The ONLY point of being in government, even by one seat, is to write your own policies into law. If it is really true that Turnbull has given the final draft to the opposition for amendment, by passing his own colleagues, he has betrayed not just Tony Abbott and the other nine, but every member of his party.

    That he is prepared to do this to get it through parliament exposes his true position as notional leader of the Greens and Labor, his traditional friends. Turnbull’s Liberals have been shown to be a fraud, a Green party led by a Green leader.

    This is a serious brainsnap. An ego trip. A chance to enshrine Green party policy and the EU/UN Paris Accord in Law in the first country in the world. The worst aspect is that it will pass parliament, bring down the Liberals and be enshrined in law for a decade.

    Then Malcolm can resign in a huff and go home. His disruption of the Liberals and the Nationals is done. He has brought down Tony Abbott, Barnaby Joyce and destroyed their parties. Outsmarted and outplayed them. As he has made clear, he does not need the job and no longer wants it. He wants to retire while everyone loves him. He is now part of history and happy to be home for Christmas. He hated campaigning for the wrong parties and Abbott’s conservative policies anyway.

    In his mind, he betrayed no one. They simply believed what they wanted to believe. He stayed his course as a true Green Banker and saved the world and looked after his business friends. A hero. He even gave some $444million without any request or tender and saved the Barrier Reef, built a giant battery in the sky and gave the top jobs to his backers. The charade is over. Everyone loves Malcolm.

    300

  • #
    Robber

    Turnbull and Frydenberg keep repeating ad nauseum that we will all save $550 per year under the NEG. Now that is a very precise number, presumably backed up by some detailed calculations. Show us the “modelling” and let’s see if it stands up – if so, debate over.
    But I suspect that their logic might be a bit weak. If a bit more wind/solar to lower “emissions” is a good thing because they are so “cheap”, then why not more and more wind/solar? What’s wrong with Labor policy of 40-50% intermittent “renewables”?

    Hint: If renewables are to supply 50% of total demand at an average capacity factor of 25%, that requires nameplate capacity of 200% of demand. What do you do with that 100% surplus at max wind and sun? And then when the sun isn’t shining and the wind isn’t blowing, don’t you still need reliable coal/gas available at 120% of total demand? So we end up with total nameplate capacity of 320% of demand, with all those investors wanting a good return on their investment.

    240

    • #
      TdeF

      As Judith Sloan wrote yesterday this $550 is based on modelling which gives astrology a bad name. It is unbelievable and wrong. In her opinion, the assumptions are simply unjustifiable and unlikely. So why are they quoted as fact?

      The only thing certain is that Australians lose and bankers and investors in ‘renewable’ power win. These are the UN/EU elites. None of the NEG is in the interest of Australia and Australians. It is not acceptable in the US, China, Russia, India. We would be absolute mugs to pass the Paris Accord into law as Malcolm and friends are determined to do. The only question is why? Cui Bono.

      260

    • #
      PeterS

      To be honest they would be closer to the truth to say it will cost us $550 MORE per year under the NEG. As typical with politicians that are divorced from reality they will say anything to push their agenda.

      210

    • #
      James in Melbourne

      Robber, as the exam papers used to say, “Show your working.”

      40

    • #
      Rob Leviston

      And there will be days that even that quantity of wind power will fall short!

      20

    • #
      yarpos

      “What do you do with that 100% surplus at max wind and sun? ”

      well obviously pump water up hill and charge batteries which by then would cover much of the landscape. Simples.

      10

  • #
    Antoine D'Arche

    well, we have a 2 in 3 chance of being properly screwed.
    Malcolm stays and wins = screwdom
    Malcolm stays and loses to Shorten = screwdom
    Malcolm goes and a conservative is elevated, cans Paris etc etc etc = screwdom deferred for another 3 years

    210

    • #
      PeterS

      If we defer the legislation of the Paris Agreement for another 3 years it might give us time for most Australians to realise the rest of the world in reality is going down a completely different path by building several hundreds of new coal fired power stations and ignoring the Paris Agreement. By that time surely enough people will see Australia is acting the fool and hence will vote for any party that will promise to scrap all subsidies for renewables and ignore if not withdraw from the Paris Agreement as other nation are doing already. If give Australians in general that much intelligence at least even if too many are acting as though they are brain dead at the moment.

      160

    • #
      glen Michel

      The next election should be prosecuted by a conservative with abrogation of Paris agreement and NEG central. It has to be made the SALIENT issue at the next poll.

      80

      • #
        glen Michel

        Hopefully the people can be told what a crock AGW is. Any takers?

        110

        • #
          PeterS

          He already exists. Cory of the ACP. Then again not many are takign him seriously. The reason is simple. Power prices are not high enough yet to cause sufficient pain to wake people up and turn their attention against the likes of the LNP and ALP. In time they might if Turnbull/Shorten remain the key leaders of this nation.

          80

        • #
          el gordo

          The election will be fought over energy and immigration, Peter Dutton has history as a bovver boy and should win in 2019.

          40

          • #
            PeterS

            You are right on what the two main issues are. As for Dutton I think you are right there too. He certainly has more fire in his speeches than Abbott.

            00

      • #
        a happy little debunker

        Currently, 54% of the Australian public believe that the current NSW drought is caused by climate change (essential media).

        That is despite that climate projections suggest upper mid latitude droughts should be lessened by climate change.

        That 54% probably believe that this week’s fires in NSW are also a result of climate change – never knowing that 84% of all wildfires are started directly by man (Smithsonian mag)

        Making climate change a core battle ground when over half of the population responded positively to warmist propaganda is a fraught strategy – better to focus on power prices & cost of living issues.

        101

        • #
          Yonniestone

          That’s 54% of the Australian public that probably shouldn’t be voting for their own sakes and the detriment of any normal people that still exist in a once potentially great country.

          51

        • #
          Antoine D'Arche

          yeah I think you’re right. There’s a real disconnect, or cognitive dissonance, if you will, between acknowledgement of similar or worse historical droughts being natural, and current droughts also being likely due to nature, and not secondary to climate change. Take any AGW believer and they will say, “well yes of course the bad drought of 18xx was all natural, but this bad drought is due to climate change”. Not may be due, possibly, likely, contributed to, made worse by etc. No, “is due”. That’s not a scientific position, but rather a belief, where the former is a rational determination and the latter is an emotional state of mind. With a strongly held belief everything is seen through the lens of confirmation bias. You don’t change a belief by using facts, but rather through another, significantly emotional and conflicting and therefore belief-challenging situation. Like real energy poverty, including protracted outages and prices that are not affordable for the majority.
          And that’s coming :)

          40

        • #
          yarpos

          people like easy answers and silver bullets, just chanting climate change and saying it will all be fixed by doing “x” provides both.

          a strategy that requires people to think is doomed. One that repeatedly points to reality vs doomsaying may have a chance.

          20

        • #
          Allen Ford

          That 54% probably believe that this week’s fires in NSW are also a result of climate change – never knowing that 84% of all wildfires are started directly by man (Smithsonian mag)

          Reports state that 3 teenagers lit the Blue Mountains fires!

          30

  • #
    TdeF

    The question is whether the fragmented Liberals can do anything if Malcolm negotiates amendments directly with the oppositoin.

    Consider that if Labor and the Greens come up with a bill which suits them and it is pure Labor/Green policy after all and at an extreme they only need Malcolm and another to cross the floor, as he did to support Rudd’s ETS. I cannot imagine a Liberal Prime Minister voting for his own bill and against even half his own party but that would do it.

    What can the ‘rebels’ or even 90% of the Liberals do about it? Nothing.

    Really, a vote of no confidence in the government might not bring the government down if Labor did not support it!

    You would in effect have a Labor/Green government run by Malcolm Turnbull.

    This is all fantasy stuff for constitutional lawyers, but fascinating to consider what would happen in a one seat democratic government if the Prime Minister effectively changed sides. You could only think the Governor General would have to prorogue parliament, but that would have to be requested. Amazing. Awful. Something on the scale of ‘The Dismissal’ from Whitlam/Kerr days.

    You can only think Turnbull is on a kamikazi mission against his own side, but then again, it was never his side. He is not Labor Lite. Malcolm and Lucy are committed Greens.

    160

  • #
    PeterS

    We shouldn’t even be in this position. Here we have a so called LNP leader acting exactly like a Greens politician by signing us up to a Paris Agreement locked in by legislation with penalties, and to top it all we are the only county in the world to do all this! Trump for example has done the exact opposite. Turnbull is a traitor the Liberal cause and he has to go on this issue alone, yet there are several others as well, which I won’t go into as they are off topic. Shorten might as well become the leader of the LNP but he of course won’t need to since he will be the next PM without a doubt as long as Turnbull is the PM. If the LNP cabinet can’t see this, and I’m almost sure some do, then they will go down the sinking ship with Turnbull and a lot of ex-LNP supporters will say hooray! This is in spite of Shorten who will continue the race to send this nation over the cliff but that’s going to happen under Turnbull anyway so why would any LNP supporter bother to vote for either party? Given we have two major parties that are so alike it’s time to break the nexus and vote for one of the minor parties en mass to destroy the LNP and have a competition between the ALP and the new party, probably with an alliance of what’s left of the LNP. Other than dumping Turnbull ASAP, it’s the only way to try and stop this nation going over the cliff. Of course there are still too many who still couldn’t care less, clueless, asleep or too busy scratching their b…. to bother thinking through the crisis we are in at the moment. The next election will be very telling as to the state of awareness of the voters regardless of whether Turnbull is still PM or not. It will be a significant litmus test of the sanity of the people.

    160

    • #
      PeterS

      It will be a significant litmus test of the sanity of the people.

      Then again I already knew most people have lost their sanity when Rudd was elected PM smashing Howard. The reason why we are in such a mess now is mostly because the people by and large couldn’t care less, clueless, asleep or too busy scratching their b…… There is no escape from that fact as the evidence is all there to see. Proof of this is everywhere. I talk to people who don’t even know what the NEG is all about let alone there is an energy crisis. The only question now is will enough people wake up to change things for the better or not. The next federal election will undoubtedly answer that question loud and clear. If Turnbull is still PM and the ALP wins instead of seeing a mass rejection of both major parties preventing either from forming a majority government then the answer is not good and over the cliff we go.

      100

      • #
        Interested

        “The reason why we are in such a mess now is mostly because the people by and large couldn’t care less, clueless, asleep or too busy scratching their b……” – PeterS

        I agree ‘PeterS’
        Most of us here, with only a few exceptions, are fully aware that Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming (CAGW) is false.
        Many of us here are also acutely aware that CAGW is simply a means to an end – a political tool to be used with a specific political purpose in mind. And that political purpose is definitely NOT going to take Australia anywhere the population would want to go …. IF THEY ONLY KNEW!

        But, for various reasons – mainly profound ignorance of even basic science – around 50% of Australians are convinced CAGW is true, that CO2 = carbon = ‘pollution’, and therefore fossil-fuel power generation has got to go.
        “I talk to people who don’t even know what the NEG is all about let alone there is an energy crisis.” – PeterS

        The parties most associated with opposition to ‘carbon pollution’ in the minds of Australians are the Greens and the ALP. These two parties are also associated with ‘compassion’ for ‘refugees’ (open borders for illegal immigrants), a caring-sharing attitude to social problems (feather beds in lieu of safety nets), and escalating promises of ‘Free Money’.

        This notion of socialist nirvana has been instilled into the minds of the populace by a clever and persistent indoctrination over the past 30 years; an indoctrination facilitated by a covert left-wing infiltration of schools, universities, scientific institutions (e.g. the CSIRO), and almost all of the popular media.

        The upshot of it all?
        Around 50% of Australian voters now vote Green/ALP … AS A MATTER OF COURSE! And probably another 10% are ‘swinging voters’, but inclined to the Left also.
        Thus, it’s become next-door to impossible for a conservative party to make any impact on the electorate and the position becomes more and more untenable for such a party every year – as generational welfare dependency, family breakdown, the constant influx of unskilled non-English-speaking migrants looking for government handouts, and the ubiquitous effects of socialist propaganda steal the conservative vote.

        I believe this energy crisis is a totally unnecessary result of the CAGW deception but, unfortunately, most of the Australian electorate think otherwise. They think Earth is dying because of fossil fuels.
        And why wouldn’t they?
        The propaganda is relentless and all-pervasive.
        As PeterS indicates, virtually none of them have any understanding of what the NEG actually is.
        But they’ll vote Greens/Labor to ‘save the planet’ … or so they fondly imagine.

        I believe it will take the serious breakdown of this country’s energy grid – with accompanying blackouts, economic decline, and other hardships – before the majority of Australians finally wake up to the fact that there’s something very wrong.
        But we’ll be at the mercy of Mr Turnbull’s political masters at the UN by that time.
        His mission will have been accomplished.

        50

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      I only glanced at it, but the interpretation I picked up from yesterday’s news was that the Liberal/National government in NSW intends to support a Greens bill to ban plastic bags.

      Please tell me I’m wrong!

      70

  • #
    TdeF

    Possibly the only hope for the people against the Paris Accord is for Abbott to enlisted as Liberal leader, fast. A revolt in the party room. A mass resignation of ministers, junior ministers, parliamentary secretaries. They are facing oblivion anyway. As they say, the cat is out of the bag.

    A new PM could rip up the NEG so that it is not put as law. If it is, the Black Hand will cross the floor anyway. They could also join forces with Labor/Greens to bring down this government immediately and force an immediate election as the government cannot assure the Governor General that they could pass legislation.

    At least though, the NEG would not go into law. However a party promising at last to remove the RET, stop the NEG, stop the boats, get out of Paris, stop the ripoff ‘subsides’, stop the $444 gift, stop Snowy II and operate Hazelwood and Liddell would halve electricity prices in a day. The combination of Abbott’s Liberals and Hanson’s One Nation and the Australian Conservatives and a lot of cross benchers in both houses might yet win in an historic landslide.

    Malcolm would fume but he would have his place in history. Perhaps his dramatic drop in personal popularity did this. You can fool some of the people.

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      PeterS

      It has to be more than that. The new leader will have to sack Turnbull from the party and all his cohorts must go as well. Otherwise the white-anting will commence again. Failing that, the ginger group will have to resign from the party and add more momentum to the demolition ball smashing the LNP to near oblivion. The LNP in its current form is riddled with cancer.

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        el gordo

        ‘… sack Turnbull from the party and all his cohorts ….’

        We live in a democracy, the people may choose to sack them at the next election.

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          PeterS

          I mean sack them from the party itself so they are no longer members. When they lose the election next year if still under Turnbull they still can choose to remain in the party. Not good enough! We need to remove the cancer for the patient to have any chance of survival in the long run.

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            el gordo

            What Turnbull has done is not treasonable under international law. Have you heard of the ‘precautionary principle’?

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              TdeF

              The ‘precautionary principle’ espoused by head of the Royal Society, Geneticist Nobel prize winner Sir Paul Nurse in a debate with James Delingpole would in fact get a doctor struck off. Treating someone for cancer without proof and only because of a suspicion is potentially lethal. The Hippocratic oath is do no harm. Killing someone to save them from an uncertain fate is the worse possible course of action.

              Sir Paul is not a medical doctor but a scientist who has not thought deeply enough about the morality of his position and his pompous analogy flustered James simply because it sounds like science but is in fact irresponsible and no ‘principle’ of science at all. That’s just a borrow word from Newton’s Principia, rules based on facts and mathematics not supposition and superstition.

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              PeterS

              What are you on about? I didn’t say he has committed treason. When a person deliberately white-ants a business they are sacked. The same should be applied in politics, and often is as shown in the US with Trump pulling no punches.

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                el gordo

                Malcolm is fighting for political survival and is prepared to intervene in the free market, too little too late?

                ‘Malcolm Turnbull is to promise rebel MPs that the three big energy companies will be targeted for market manipulation.’ Oz

                ‘What are you on about?’

                I’m racing ahead to the Royal Commission and wondering how to prosecute those responsible for wasting so much tax money for no reason.

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                PeterS

                Fighting for politician survival? It would be better to say he is fighting for political oblivion, like he did once before when he fought for them same cause and lost to Abbott a number of years ago. Funny how things have come full circle and yet he believes this time he is on a winner. I can understand him for being divorced from reality, just plain stupid or a Labor mole but not the rest of the party and especially the cabinet. They ought to know better form past experience. People have short memories but that doesn’t mean they have no memory. His offer of appeasement by introducing some sort of “price fixing” is too little too late. No one really believes him any more anyway, especially those who are conservative supporters. He has lost all credibility and if left as PM will lead the party to a massive defeat at the next election. Bring it on.

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                el gordo

                ‘The internal feud over energy isn’t just another nail in the coffin of the Turnbull government, it’s a 15cm galvanised, zinc-coated spike.’ Oz

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            Yonniestone

            Peter I believe the correct term for internal party sacking in Australian politics is “knifing”.

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          Greebo

          We live in a democracy

          Really? Where’s that? Turnbull has given the NEG draft to Shorten but not his own Cabinet, far less to the electorate. Doesn’t sound too democratic to me.

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            PeterS

            It’s a direct democracy for one day at election time. After that it’s a representative democracy where our elected representatives can and often do whatever they like regardless of what their constituents want or say – until the next election where they listen for a whiel and make more promises, which by and large they won’t keep yet again. The cycle repeats and one doesn’t need to be a rocket scientists to see that because of the tiny duty cycle of the direct democracy component the nation gradually deteriorates, declines and eventually crashes and burns. What should happen instead is the voters should once and a while stop voting for either major party to shock them back to reality. Such a time is now.

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              Greebo

              Couldn’t agree more. Say what you like, I am a founder member of Cory’s party. Will I vote for him at the next election? That now really depends on the outcome of the next two weeks. Personally, I think Turnbull is gone. If the Mincing Poodle or the Party Girl become leader then my vote for Bernardi is assured. If Dutton or say Hastie get up then I will use the time between now and the election to evaluate. If it’s Abbott then I’m back in the fold. He’s not perfect, by any means, but he is far more measured now. He definitely does NOT need a bunch of advisers telling him how to speak. He needs to just be himself, something he wasn’t allowed todo last time.

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    el gordo

    Could we just settle down for a minute, imagine Dutton becomes PM in a few weeks, with the support of the ginger group. Turnbull and Bishop have gone to the backbench, their positions untenable.

    Odds are that Abbot will take Bishop’s seat and pull us out of Paris.

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      PeterS

      On the contrary. We need to keep up the rage so they don’t go quiet again and roll up to the next election with Turnbull still as their leader.

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        el gordo

        Yeah but who are we going to keep on the front bench?

        I nominate Craig Kelly for Environment.

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          Greebo

          Might be a bit left field, but how about offering Cory a Ministry? Energy would be a nice fit, given his stated policies. It’s been done before, I believe.

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            PeterS

            I dare say Cory will only go back to the Liberal Party if the new leader of the LNP introduces policies that are aligned with his.

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              Greebo

              I dare say you may be right. He was happy enough under Tony’s leadership. Perhaps though he has too much invested in the AC thing. He could still get a ministry without rejoining the Liberals though.

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      TdeF

      Wouldn’t it be great to have a Foreign Minister who had a Masters from Oxford in International Politics and is respected world wide for his clear rhetoric and prophetic opinions?

      It would make a change from pompous echo chamber and anti Semite Bob Carr who railed against his missing pajamas in First Class and party girl and generous donor of our money to the Clintons and the UN, Julie Bishop who openly detests Donald Trump.

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      • #
        TdeF

        It would be great to have Joe Hockey freed from the chains of Turnbull and Bishop and able to properly and publicly support Trump’s bold initiatives in trade and international relations. It must be awful to have to take orders from UN/EU progressives like Turnbull and Bishop. Progressive being a code word for Green Socialist.

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        el gordo

        I agree that Tony Abbott would be an outstanding Foreign Minister and pulling out of Paris a show stopper. Unlike the US president, Tony would explain to the world why we are taking our bat and ball home.

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          PeterS

          Trump did explain why he did it. Even the ABC reported it. Cory of course has been explaining why we should withdraw from the Paris Agreement long before Abbott started to do so. In any case the more important thing to do is simply to ignore the Paris Agreement as Russia, China, India as well as the US are now doing. As for withdrawing, Trump and in accordance with Article 28 of the Paris Agreement, the earliest possible effective withdrawal date by the US cannot be before November 4, 2020, four years after the Agreement came into effect in the US and one day after the 2020 U.S. presidential election. They have announced they will abide by the four-year exit process. We will have to do something similar if we announce our withdrawal.

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            el gordo

            ‘Trump did explain why he did it. Even the ABC reported it.’

            Enlighten me with a link.

            From memory Delingpole was waxing lyrical on how it was good strategy by Trump not to get involved in the climate wars.

            Tony Abbott would tell the world that climate science is crap.

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      Yonniestone

      Everyone here is forgetting the biggest obstacle facing a politicians success with the public a paid for complicit left wing MSM.

      Without another popular media platform this country will decay to the “couldn’t care less about politics, she’ll be right” citizens that held the sword while watching cat videos.

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        PeterS

        Didn’t stop Trump with a much more aggressive and widespread MSM campaign against him (and still is). Then again Australians tend to be on average more on the left while in the US there are lots of right wingers ranging from moderate to extreme right wing that pretty much counteracts the left to extreme leftists. So it’s much easier for a centre-right politician like Trump to be elected than one of similar type here irrespective of the MSM.

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    Peter O'Brien

    Here’s what I just sent to my local member:

    I have been a Liberal supporter all my life but, I am sorry to say, that is about change unless the Government radically rethinks its climate change policy direction and, as a first step, withdraws from the useless Paris Agreement.

    With regard to the NEG, I have no faith whatsoever that this will lower prices nor establish the business certainty that we need for new development in ‘real’ cost effective despatchable power viz, clean coal.

    The problem with the Government’s 26% CO2 emissions reduction target is that electricity represents only 30% of our emissions, meaning that even if you achieve that reduction in the electricity sector (at who knows what cost) there is still a mountain of work to be done in the other sectors such as agriculture and transport. The electricity sector is the low hanging fruit, so it’s frightening to think what damage will be done in the other sectors in pursuit of this pointless goal, which even the Chief Scientists attests will have no impact on the global climate.

    In my view, the NEG is just the thin edge of a very large and destructive wedge that will send us back to the dark ages. If the Greens get their way on electricity, and they will under Bill Shorten, there will be no stopping them.

    Best to cauterize this cancer right now.

    I am sorry to write in this vein, as, in my view you are a very good local member, but if Malcolm Turnbull is still at the helm at the time of the next election, I will not be able to vote for you, even accepting that Shorten will be a disaster.

    Please don’t think of this as in any way personal. I feel strongly that this country is now at a crossroads and it is my duty to convey my feelings,

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      Interested

      Excellent letter!!
      You’ve expressed your complaint about a complex issue in a very succinct but effective way.
      I hope your MP sits up and takes notice.
      Well done.

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    Mick S

    This whole situation regarding our response to emission reductions to save the planet is descending into high farce.To think that the political party,that I have voted for all my life,wants to
    sign us up to this madness is outrageous.Enough is enough,my local member will be informed,that my vote is going elsewhere.

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    Nothing matters till Turnbull, Frydenberg and Bishop are removed.

    Their replacements may be no great shakes. The media will certainly attack remorselessly. The hopes of forestalling a cynical and destructive Labor government are slim.

    But there is no choice. Turnbull, Frydenberg and Bishop are the goannas in the chook house. They are not interested in anything but implementing a globalist agenda which has nothing to do with conservation, national interest or anyone’s well being. They will not change because they cannot change. They are goannas. It does not matter that the next dice roll is a bad one, because right now we have snake eyes. (Or is that goanna eyes?)

    I’m no fan whatsoever of Oliver Cromwell…but I think he said it best:

    Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation. You were deputed here by the people to get grievances redressed, are yourselves become the greatest grievance.

    Your country therefore calls upon me to cleanse this Augean stable, by putting a final period to your iniquitous proceedings in this House; and which by God’s help, and the strength he has given me, I am now come to do.

    I command ye therefore, upon the peril of your lives, to depart immediately out of this place.

    Go, get you out! Make haste! Ye venal slaves be gone! So! Take away that shining bauble there, and lock up the doors.

    In the name of God, go!

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    TdeF

    There is a big upside to getting rid of Turnbull. While he put in $1.75Million of his own money to secure his current job, Malcolm’s Liberals are utterly broke. Their biggest donor, the McCormack Foundation is refusing to put in any money, prefering to back real conservatives as is their task as directors. The attempt by Party Treasurer Michael Kroeger to force them by Court order to hand over the cash has failed dismally. Turnbull may even want his cash back which on the face of it would be illegal under AEC rules but you never know. You would think the $444Million gift was illegal too.

    However with a new Liberal team and conservative policies and the dismantling of Turnbull’s Green policies, the money might flow again, especially from companies faced with closure by the RET and the NEG. Private donors like Pratt and Rinehart might just appear from behind locked doors. We could do with our own MAGA.

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      Geoffrey Williams

      The $444 million donation to an obscure bunch of climate activists is a disgrace.
      The money should be returned to treasury and used for better purposes like the drought.
      GeoffW

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        TdeF

        Yes, the argument that the Great Barrier Reef means $6Billion a year to tourism is nothing compared to the affected regional agricultural industry which returns $60Billion from the same area and the vilified minining industry but the Reef gets $444million for nothing at all and the farmers get $13,000 each, a third of the unjustified and meaningless gift to Turnbull’s favorite business charity.

        While he is building his $12Billion water battery, you would think drought proofing the country would have had higher priority. Turnbull is shocked by the drought and blames Climate Change, not himself. Where has he been?

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    Geoffrey Williams

    Shout as much as you like. Turnbull won’t change. I’ve never liked him as PM.
    He’s a pin-up boy just like Britain’s Tony Blair was.
    When this is all over he’ll land a plum job somewhere on the international scene.
    In a years time Bill Shorten will be in the lodge.
    But he’ll have his problems too;
    As a socialist he will have to keep the cost of living down.
    As a greens convert he will have to keep Co2 down!
    Good luck Bill.
    GeoffW

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      PeterS

      As a typical socialist he will do the only thing they know; spend more. He will have to come up with some sort of tax funded rebate scheme for consumers to cut their power bills while the power companies reap in larger and larger profits thanks to the renewables nonsense. People will be happy again – until the debt bomb explodes in all our faces. It will end in tears for sure – crash and burn here we come.

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    destroyer D69

    http://catallaxyfiles.com/2018/06/15/cut-the-beer-tax-and-win-a-landslide-a-la-ontario/ A suggestion of demands to be met in order to get your vote. It worked in Ontario…..The title sounds somewhat jocular but it was a serious and successful platform.

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    TdeF

    Doesn’t anyone in the Parliament ask the simple question, how did we go from the world cheapest power to the world’s most expensive electricity so quickly?

    In fact it started with the first Federal Act to intervene in the State electricity systems, a cunning and deceitful act called innocuously the Renewable Energy(Electricity) Act 2000.

    On careful reading its purpose was the slow but certain destruction of fossil fuel for generating electricity. Only now do we understand this, now that we are all suffering. It is by far the world’s biggest Carbon Tax and illegal in its operation, forcing us to enrich third parties directly without going into general revenue, pumping billions into Gentailers like AGL and investors in Windmills, domestic and overseas. The river of money is bleeding this country dry because it is not a tax, we do not get the cash and we do not even get to own the windmills. Only Green lawyers would dream up a rort like this.

    Remove the RET and the nightmare is over. As for the real purpose of more legislation, the NEG, an act which we the public are not even allowed to read, it is likely another attempt to do the bidding of the UN/EU elites and turn Australia into a mendicant nation, energy rich and industrially poor, a broken socialist state like starving Venezuela.

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    PeterS

    In an attempt to appease those who are sceptical of the NEG reducing prices the LNP is now proposing to include a “price-fixing” clause so that energy suppliers can’t sell above a certain level. This is getting worse. I thought that sort of action is illegal.

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    philthegeek

    Repost from something i came across on what some here would term a “leftist” blog site.

    But made me smile. :)

    The most important thing to remember about Trumble after the fact that he’s an idiot is the related fact that all his problems are self inflicted.

    He voluntarily sets up battles he can’t possibly win.

    A smart player on coming to government would have put a few mates in to run the NBN, got them to do some shonky report bagging out the previous management but saying changing from fttp was too costly now, and then sat back gloating as the natural ramp up made him look good.

    But Trumble is an idiot.

    A smart player would have proposed some small modest tax cuts in the now. Simple conservative stuff that would have been almost impossible to argue against. But Trumble is an idiot, so he’s come up with massive and destructive tax cuts that aren’t delivered for several terms? Like wtf is that other than putting your own head in the noose?

    He had no need to fuck with Gonski and so make enemies of the Coalition’s usual allies in private education.

    And again NEG is a voluntary fuck up. Once the Coalition had screwed energy policy by axing the ‘tax’, anyone with a brain on their side should have seen that it wasn’t a huge vote winner for them. The polling didn’t leap up for them from all the people cheering their $500 windfall. A smart operator would declare victory and try not to mention energy ever again. Instead Trumble wants to shine spotlights on the mess the Coalition created. He has also voluntarily set up an unresolvable conflict between his denialist loons and the States and Labor that he needs to get it implemented. What kind of idiot sets up a battle he cannot possibly win and makes it a signature test of his leadership? And come on, $500 bucks saving again? Why not just run tv and radio ads day and night saying it’s a con.

    This dope is uzT nuS. The reverse Sun Tzu. He could write the textbook on the art of self defeat. How the fuck did anyone fall for this imbecile?

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    pat

    our academic elite + theirABC equals:

    17 Aug: ABC: Malcolm Turnbull’s NEG remains in snake-infested territory
    The Conversation By Michelle Grattan
    (Michelle Grattan is a professorial fellow at the University of Canberra and chief political correspondent at The Conversation, where this article first appeared)
    His energy policy is back in the mire, and Tony Abbott is being — as one colleague neatly describes it — the agent of chaos…

    In Tuesday’s Coalition parties meeting, where Mr Turnbull ***won strong support for his energy policy, several reserved their right to cross the floor on the emissions-reduction legislation, and later more said they might do so. There was talk of up to 10…

    The Nationals’ federal council meets this weekend in Canberra, where there will be a lot of chatter about the NEG. Deputy Prime Minister Michael McCormack in his council address will emphasise the vital importance of lowering power prices — very safe ground — but given his divided ranks, he isn’t expected to come out with a passionate advocacy of the technology-neutral NEG…

    Mr Turnbull is working hard on the rebels — though obviously not on Mr Abbott — to try and bring them around…
    PM ‘not afraid to pull out big stick’
    They have wish lists, and Mr Turnbull, ***the ultimate transactional politician, is seeking doable ways to mollify them…

    Then there is federal Labor. It is generally thought the Government will need ALP support to pass the emissions-reduction legislation in the Senate, and defections could mean Labor was needed in the Lower House too.

    The argument has gone: Labor would try to amend the emissions-reduction target in the legislation but, assuming that failed, it could then pass the legislation in order to take the climate/energy issue off the 2019 election agenda. That would leave a Shorten government able to increase the target later…

    Jones, Hadley, Credlin and Bolt
    Another set of players in Mr Turnbull’s energy problems comprise the media shouters: Alan Jones, Hadley, Peta Credlin and Andrew Bolt.
    They direct their megaphones to the so-called Coalition “base” and their messages resonate particularly with the Liberal National Party’s grass roots in Queensland. This makes some backbenchers nervous, inclining them (in one description) to “virtue signal” to the base…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-17/malcolm-turnbull-neg-remains-in-snake-infested-territory/10131124

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    Richard

    Libs cross the floor and demonstrate as even the ABC will have to show that Liberals can be democratic. ALP are bound to mob rule. Libs can read the empirical science data and vote for their constuents. Unity is not strength it can be as silly as consencus science. It is not relevant that Abbott has poor media ignorant media lead polls. In polling booths citizens consider their lives, nation, facts and sufficient wisdom gave/would give TA a large majority. Please PM Turnbull resign it will give you more dignity now than after the next election. If Libs cross the floor they will have shown they have principle and sufficent intelect to reason between science, hype, ego and greed.

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  • #
    Roy Hogue

    Somewhere back in the past I remember a practical economics lesson when the price of gasolene went up because some oil barons in the MIddle East weren’t happy with their profitability. A little pain in the purse could help undo poor old Malcolm who, even to an American, doesn’t seem to be doing too well these days.

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      Dennis

      It’s the hip pocket nerve here, voters react when it hurts.

      00

      • #
        PeterS

        Yes and it clearly is showing by the way the two major parties are bleeding votes in recent by-elections. The strongest disapproval of the way things are going would be best exhibited if neither LNP nor ALP+Greens manage to form a majority government. Let’s see if the public have the spines to make it so.

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        • #
          Dennis

          Last year former PM Howard commented that the voting trend in recent times has shown the support for both major sides has fallen from the traditional average of 80% including swinging voters between the major parties to 60%. The 2010 federal election resulted in a hung parliament which forced Labor to recruit outsiders to form a minority alliance government.

          If enough voters reject Labor-Green and Liberal-National in 2019, voting Green-Labor-LNP in that order last, and carefully choose a minor party candidate or independent first preference maybe the thick skulled politicians would finally get our message.

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          • #
            PeterS

            You would think that will happen fairly easily but if it doesn’t we will have to go through much more pain for the thick skulled voters finally to grow a spine to send the message in the first place.

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    ROM

    There is a hell of a lot of pontificating going on in the posts above.
    There are a hell of a lot of solutions being provided.

    The chances are that every one of the proposed solutions to untangle the perfectly knotted up ball of energy policy barb wire would deliver a outcome far from the original proposers desires and intentions.

    There is nothing so perverse and unrewarding in politics than trying to inflict an unpopular and rigorous policy onto reluctant voters and citizens.

    And it rarely works for long before it is ameneded and somebody frequently pays a high price for supporting the unpopulsar policy.

    So to the denizens here, a small number of who must at some stage or are still very close to the peak political process and the politicians in Canberra and even in the States, the question is: Who provides the politicians with the information needed and who do the politicians rely on to give them the information, say both for and against renewable versus fossil fueled energy.?

    Do the politicians even consider some of these views both mainstream and alternative and opposing before they begin to make a decision ?

    Considering the overwhelming propoganda in favour of renewable energy over the highly efficient and cheap “dirty” coal, do the politicians or at least a few /couple of them ever read the likes of Jo’s blog to gain even more information from a full on skeptics point of view?

    In short where do and how do politicians get their information on a subject they have to make a decision on and vote on such as the impotent and upcoming Turnbull promoted energy policy.

    I ask these questions because so frequently following a posting here on Jo’s blog, phrases very similar as well as suggestions also very similar to those posted here appear in The Australian and elsewhere.

    Which then brings up the question; What effect and how much effect if any does Jo’s blog have on the Australian political processes and the bureacratic processes.

    So Who reads this blog is the question and how influential is the blog and its readers outside of the posting denizens.?

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    • #
      Peter C

      Which then brings up the question; What effect and how much effect if any does Jo’s blog have on the Australian political processes and the bureacratic processes.

      So Who reads this blog is the question and how influential is the blog and its readers outside of the posting denizens.?

      A most important question, but perhaps impossible to answer. I hope that we are not just talking to each other, but even that is all that happens ideas get shared and then spread to the wider community by our conversations with family/friends.

      The statistics button on the right side gives some information. In the past hour there were 215 viewing sessions and 328 page views.

      During July there were 140,000 sessions and 192,000 page views. That is a lot more viewers than comments, so others are looking at the blog. Whether the blog or the comments are influential is debateable, but people are still looking and reading and commenting.

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      Richard

      Advisers are paid to read items like this blog. If I was mentioned here, as a politcian and not told an advisor would be on notice. I rarely comment but when I do the main target audience is advisers to PM office or similar. Jo would be well known to all politicians, many to biased to reason empirical data. Andrew Bolt heroicly almost alone stopped ALP crazy carbon tax. Let’s hope Turnbull resigns gracefully and Abbott can bring sanity to Australia. Tony is the only option who can point to his great credits like I stopped the boats. That wins elections. Dutton can’t.

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    NB

    The Greens have so many seats in parliament. They govern with a majority of dozens.

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    William

    While we all acknowledge that Australia is cactus, there is a thread of desperation in many of the posts here. Specifically, this thread cries out for the return of Tony Abbott.

    I remind those calling for his return to remember something: prior to his election to PM, he repeatedly stated that if his legislative program was not passed, he would call a double dissolution election within six months.

    Then he got elected, he failed to pass his legislative program, and we have never again heard of the double dissolution election.

    Another thing we need to keep in mind is the fact that the Liberals are a useless rabble. Look at them individually, and you see someone totally devoid of any kind of useful skill, and probably unemployable even at Starbucks.

    So the weakness of TA and the fear of having to front up to Centrelink has got Australia into this mess.

    We are screwed.

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      philthegeek

      We are screwed.

      I’m more optimistic than that. Appears that the Lib/Nats are heading for self immolation / serious meltdown over #Leadershit.

      Change on the way, and much popcorn to be consumed. :)

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      Dennis

      You fail to understand or recognise the position PM Abbott was in even after he led the Coalition to effectively defeat Labor in 2010 forcing them into an outsiders alliance to form a minority government and then the landslide defeat of Labor in 2013.

      From when he became Opposition Leader in 2009 replacing Turnbull, and even before he was drafted in 2009, the Turnbull Black Hand faction opposed him within the Parliamentary Liberal Party. Note that they also successfully opposed Opposition Leader Nelson from 2007 to 2008 when Turnbull became Opposition Leader.

      The election policies of the Abbott led Coalition Government elected September 2013 were opposed and undermined by Minister for Communications Turnbull and other cabinet ministers of the Black Hand faction. What did go through Parliament was blocked in the Senate including budget repair measures from the Hockey 2014/15 financial year budget. In short, PM Abbott was handicapped by colleagues who did not want him as leader.

      http://stopturnbull.com/relentless-undermining-2009-2015/

      Cabinet decisions are mostly democratic and decided by the members of cabinet, even recommendations of a prime minister to cabinet do not necessarily get approved. A prime minister can overrule cabinet but not too often, after all that position is not set in concrete and usually there is at least one cabinet minister who is ambitious enough to want it.

      The weakness of Abbott, as you put it, was the lack of support (cabinet solidarity compromised by the Black Hand) he received from people who wanted him to fail.

      The Australian newspaper is one of a number of sources that have revealed the history.

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        philthegeek

        What a load of bollocks Dennis. ALP lost in 2010 because of the #Leadershit / Rudd stuff. Simple.

        Lib /Nats are too stupid to accept that reality or learn any lessons from it. Confirmation of this is that they are going the same path.

        too much theater, and not enough actual policy.

        Stick a fork in em, they are done.

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          el gordo

          ‘Stick a fork in em, they are done.’

          Not so fast comrade, Mr Potato Head is on next.

          I think we should keep Morrison in place for the time being, to create a semblance of stability, what do you think?

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        William

        Yes, all agreed.
        But the point I am making, probably very badly, that a return of TA will not save the Liberals or Australia.
        TA is too weak and politically inept, and the individual Liberals are pathetic baristas of the future.

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          Dennis

          I doubt that Tony Abbott wants to be the leader again but he does want to save the Liberal Party and Australia.

          In my opinion he has been smeared and damaged beyond his control and there was little he could do to stop this character assassination of anonymous leaking to media, Labor’s GetUp recruited to help the Black Hand get Abbott and compliant ABC/MSM spreading the dirt.

          Christopher Monckton warned about it and of the international forces plotting his downfall.

          Maybe Peter Dutton would have a better chance of breaking through backed by Tony Abbott and other patriots.

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          el gordo

          ‘TA is too weak and politically inept’

          Wrong, Tony Abbott is heroic and a man of principle who has a very bright future on the world stage as Foreign Minister. A statesman of renown.

          ‘…and the individual Liberals are pathetic baristas of the future.’

          The Westminster System creates group think, you may have heard on the nightly news the Liberals who stand with Malcolm. They are all dead wood and should be replaced in due course.

          William, in your estimation would Peter Dutton make a good PM?

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          Richard

          TonyAbbott is strong, informed and addresses issues important to voters. TA has learned from Trump that exposing fake news works. Tweets reveal thoughts and frustrate fake news. A huge difference from the cautious undermined firefighting lifesaving poly peddling polite man. Abbott now will counter the liars.

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      PeterS

      William you are of course correct, the LNP is a mess and they have been for a long time. This is in stark contrast to the ALP where they have been for a very long time with very few exceptions a well organised team. Does that make the ALP a batter party to govern the nation? The answer of course is a resounding no because of their socialistic policies and anti-Western ideology. But it can’t be helped that people will not vote for a rabble like the LNP lead by a cabinet and their leader who are hell bent on ramming a global warming scam down our throats and choking us to death for whatever motive. It matters not that the ALP will do the same thing. The real question then is how come more people aren’t awake to this dilemma and voting with the feet by rejecting both major parties? As we are now noticing they are but time will tell if it’s enough to stop the ping-pong election process where we go form one monster to another and back again. If it continues long enough, and it won’t taken too long, the nation will crash and burn beyond repair and we will have to beg for China to take over. The US by then will probably have their own even bigger problems to deal with so we can’t count on them to help us out. All this could be stopped so well if the people voted for say a ACP+ON coalition to form government in their own right but of course that won’t happen as it’s going too far out from peoples’ comfort zone. Yet if they keep giving LNP and ALP a turn in government things will get so bad they will be far more out of their comfort zone than they coudl ever imagine but they currently won’t take off their blinkers to see it coming. Of course a better solution is for Turnbull to be replaced now by a suitable leader to turn things completely around, much like what Trump has done. Time will tell if that’s the case. Let’s hope it is because I really don’t see any other way out of the crash and burn death spiral we are going through.

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      joseph

      Maybe there are a couple of other Rhodes Scholars in the party that can get us out of this mess . . . . . .

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    pat

    when I posted an ABC Life Matters piece -

    ABC: Solar power: Does it make economic sense to buy batteries now or should you wait? By Genelle Weule for Life Matters

    on jo’s “Climate Wars” thread, little did I realise:

    13 Aug: Whatever the Weather: mood
    To mark Science Week, Life Matters has teamed up with the Bureau of Meteorology to examine the impacts of weather on our lives. Starting with weather and its ability to influence our mood and behaviour.
    14 Aug: Whatever the Weather: inside the Bureau of Meteorology
    As part of our weather coverage for Science Week, Life Matters takes you behind the scenes of Australia’s Bureau of Meteorology — the national hub of forecasting, emergency response and climate science.

    15 Aug: Whatever the Weather: battling urban heat
    The urban heat island effect, and the impact it’s having on our quality of life, is not just evident in our cities but also our towns.
    In our third part of Whatever the Weather, we discuss the ways we can turn those rising temperatures around before they severely affect population across the country.
    ETC ETC
    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/lifematters/features/whatever-the-weather/

    the 16 Aug piece on tradies is embarrassing, never moreso than when Mackenzie keeps begging Pisaniello to focus on heatwaves/heatstrokes. Pisaniello waffles more than Turnbull.
    listen from 16mins08secs:

    AUDIO: 23mins14secs: 16 Aug: ABC Life Matters: Whatever the Weather: working outside
    by Michael Mackenzie
    (Michael has been working in radio for more than 25 years, 16 of those for ABC Radio)
    In Part 4 of Whatever the Weather we talk to Adam McRorie, a rope technician dangling from a natural gas rig 120kms off the WA coast, Laurie Chaffey, a farmer changing her work patterns in response to long term drought in NSW, and various tradespeople on building sites around Brisbane.

    ***Dino Pisaniello, Professor of Occupational and Environmental Health (Adelaide University) says the role of heat, solar glare, and humidity play an increasingly dangerous role in workplace injuries around the country.
    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/lifematters/whatever-the-weather:-working-outside/10123968

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      pat

      when you listen to theirABC programs like “Life Matters”, the presenters always give the impression there’s loads of feedback on their Facebook page.
      NOT TRUE AT ALL. THERE’S VIRTUALLY NONE.

      Nate and Adam will be the final “Whatever the Weather” Life Matters program tomorrow:

      Facebook: ABC RN Life Matters
      1h ago: Just finished our hour of fab weather talkback with meteorologist Nate Byrne from ABC News Breakfast and senior forecaster Adam Morgan from the Bureau of Meteorology. Your calls, stories and memories were incredible thank you.
      1 COMMENT.

      13 Aug: We’re coming to you live from the Bureau of Meteorology to reveal how they collect the data for the forecasts we depend on daily.
      We’re also going live on Facebook from 9.30 am (AEST) and we’re taking your questions to put directly to our forecasters.
      What would you like to know?
      2 COMMENTS ONLY includes:
      Dave Clayden When I first moved from Britain to SE Queensland in 1999, nobody and I mean NOBODY talked about the weather because it seemed so reliable.
      Now as Climate Change has really taken hold EVERYBODY talks about the weather all the time:
      https://www.facebook.com/ABCRNLifeMatters

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        pat

        ABC’S Mackenzie directed listeners to ABC’s weather reporter Kate Doyle’s link on the Life Matters homepage, where she documents her tradies piece as “Hot Tradies”. it takes you to Doyle’s articles page, which includes the one with THE tradies, PLUS MORE EXAMPLES:

        14 Aug: The ‘teenager of climate drivers’ and how it affects our weather Explainer

        19 Jul: Could you sleep through a 42.6-degree night?
        ABC Weather By Kate Doyle
        Night-time temperature records in the northern hemisphere have been smashed in the past few weeks. Nights are getting warmer all over the world, with deadly consequences.

        5 Jul: Hottest financial year on record says BOM
        ABC Weather By Kate Doyle
        Bureau of Meteorology data shows maximum temperatures were nearly 1.5 degrees above the long-term average over the last 12 months.
        ETC
        http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-16/how-to-mange-weather-in-construction-jobs/10083870

        Twitter: Kate Doyle, Living proof that you can get a job with a BSc in Geography :) I report for ABC Weather but my sporadic tweets are my own
        https://twitter.com/doylesweather?lang=en
        ABC Weather By Kate Doyle

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        pat

        Life Matters how now put up a podcast with meteorologist Nate Byrne from ABC News Breakfast and senior forecaster Adam Morgan from the Bureau of Meteorology, some of which will apparently be included on Life Matters tomorrow:

        at the start: Mackenzie: Australia makes the climate news overseas – (clip) people in Australia struggling to recover from record-breaking heatwave and things just keep getting worse…

        AUDIO: 54mins25secs: 17 Aug: ABC Life Matters podcast: Talkback: Whatever the Weather
        Michael Mackenzie and Erica Vowles
        (Erica Vowles embarked on her career at the ABC in 2007. She has worked for more than a dozen programs at Radio National, including as a producer on RN Drive, The Law Report, The National Interest and The Book Show and has presented The Law Report and Rear Vision. She has also made a number of documentaries for RN programs such as Background Briefing, Encounter, 360documentries and Hindsight. Erica is passionate about science fiction and has a deep interest in space exploration. Erica studied Journalism, Politics and History as an Undergraduate, before completing a Masters in International Relations at UNSW)

        We asked you to call us with your stories and questions about memorable weather events, and responding were senior forecaster at the Bureau of Meteorology Adam Morgan, and ABC Breakfast News weather presenter and meteorologist Nate Byrne.
        http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/lifematters/whatever-the-weather:-your-stories/10131166

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    RickWill

    Tony Abbott had a column in the Melbourne Herald Sun today stating a newspoll result of 63% of those polled wanted lower electricity prices first. This is a story on that poll:
    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/climate/coalitions-power-pricing-policies-finally-gaining-traction-with-voters/news-story/99463da8f4de2e1cd347764eae665aa2

    Only reference to the story I can find on the web is paywalled.

    It appears that if LNP went to the polls with lower power prices and dumping Paris it would romp home.

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      RickWill

      The second look at the Australian newspoll story is also paywalled – I got to the story from Google on the first look without the paywall.

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      PeterS

      Alternatively one could argue we all should vote for the ALP since Turnbull has stated renewables reduce power prices, and since Shorten has promised even more renewables then it’s a given that their policies will lead to lower power prices, right? Turnbull can’t have it both way. Either his is right and so Shorten is the winner or Turnbull is full of BS and Shorten is again the winner. Turnbull really has locked his party into a no-win scenario.

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      Robber

      Details from The Australian July 17:
      Malcolm Turnbull is winning over voters with his claims the government will force down power prices, with a special Newspoll showing the Coalition ahead of Labor as the most trusted party to deliver lower priced and more reliable power.
      However, support for Australia to pull out of the Paris climate change agreement is also hardening as the electorate becomes increasingly concerned about energy costs, with almost two thirds ranking it ahead of emissions reduction as a priority for government.
      The poll on energy prices and climate change, conducted for The Australian between July 12 and 15, shows a majority of voters backed the government over Labor on managing energy.
      The poll, showing the Coalition leading 40 per cent to 34 per cent, marks an eight-point turnaround in voter sentiment since May when a shock Newspoll showed more people believed Labor would be better at managing Australia’s energy supply and power prices than the Coalition.
      In your opinion, what should be the government’s priority?
      Keep energy prices down 63%
      Meet emission targets 24%
      Prevent blackouts 9%
      Other 8%
      If pulling out of Paris would lower prices:
      In favour 48%
      Opposed 38%
      Undecided 14%

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        James in Melbourne

        Robber, I would very much appreciate seeing the arithmetic behind this statement:

        “Hint: If renewables are to supply 50% of total demand at an average capacity factor of 25%, that requires nameplate capacity of 200% of demand. What do you do with that 100% surplus at max wind and sun? And then when the sun isn’t shining and the wind isn’t blowing, don’t you still need reliable coal/gas available at 120% of total demand? So we end up with total nameplate capacity of 320% of demand.”

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          RickWill

          There is an economic place for intermittent generation that only needs to cover operating costs. Meaning this strategy may not justify building more intermittents but they can be used to conserve perched water in an existing hydro system such as the Snowy and Tasmania. So the economic maximum capacity equals the total of installed hydro. The Snowy and Tasmania combined is 6400GW. The installed rooftop solar is already close to that so is at the economic limit. There is also 5GW of wind and it could be used at night time. Having been built the operating cost is about $20/MWh on the latest units so it is a low cost means to conserve water.

          If you owned the assets with a view to minimise the cost of power supply you would run the base load on coal, peak power would be hydro or intermittent if available. Try to avoid using gas. You would aim never to have hydro or intermittents reduce the demand for base load coal generators.

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          yarpos

          The arithmetic is in the statement, there is just one assumption re the capacity factor and the rest is straight forward. What part doesnt look right?

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    RickWill

    There is growing angst in the wind and solar generation industry over the NEG and the current LNP focus on power prices and turning off subsidies:
    https://mailchi.mp/solar/solar-storage-e-news-friday-december-1-536349?e=eb000994e4

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      Dennis

      They deserve to be punished for profiteering.

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      PeterS

      The obvious is still being ignored by most people. Australia is so rich in cheap coal and uranium, which are being exported to countries all over the world in large quantities to fuel their power plants that are dramatically growing in numbers. Yet we refuse to do the same and instead turn our backs to both coal and uranium as a means to fuel new power plants and instead we are building only renewable power plants to make our power prices the highest in the world. Can someone please remind us why we are doing all that? It’s certainly not to reduce the CO2 in the world as that’s not happening thanks largely to the much larger emitters like Russia, China, India and the US. If I were an alien and came down to earth today I ought to be excused for thinking Australia was taken over by the rest of the world and it was being mined for their benefit and at the same time destroy the local economy so it can be invaded.

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        John of Cloverdale, WA, Australia

        China is already invading us, the Pacific and Africa. If they made the movie, “The Rising Sun” again they would change it to the “Rising Dragon”.

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          PeterS

          There was a movie made depicting Australia being invaded by a coalition of Asian nations. Close enough. It was called Tomorrow When the War Began.

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    Mark M

    Excuse my cynicism …

    Aug 9, 2018: The Turnbull Government says the NEG will save the average Australian household $550 a year on their power bill.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-09/malcolm-turnbull-announcing-neg-power-policy/10102822

    Oct, 2013:

    Prime Minister Tony Abbott has announced he will introduce legislation next month to scrap the carbon tax from July 2014.

    “When this bill is passed, Australian households will be better off to the tune of $550 a year,” he promised in a press conference on October 15.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-18/greg-hunt-tony-abbott-carbon-tax/5026782

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    BoyfromTottenham

    I have just sent a barely restrained email to my local Federal LNP Member, Jane Prentice, expressing my anger at ‘her’ PM Turnbull’s disloyal and even treacherous action in giving a draft of the NEG to the ALP before making it available to his own backbenchers (presumably including Ms Prentice!), on top of his previous ‘de-carbonisation’ actions. I hope it gives her pause for thought. I hope many follow my example – it certainly made me feel better!

    BTW I had reason today to read (or try to read) an explanation from the AFR of how the NEG would work, and am none the wiser. Putting lipstick on a pig is a huge understatement. It just creates another layer of bureaucracy and a thicket of impenetrable regulation, and is IMO unlikely to make things better, more likely the reverse. But we won’t see its impact for years, so the perpetrators get a free pass.

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    pat

    17 Aug: ABC: Drought, wind and heat: Bushfire season is starting earlier and lasting longer
    The Conversation By Owen Price
    (Owen Price is a senior research fellow at the Centre for Environmental Risk Management of Bushfires at the University of Wollongong)
    The combination of winter drought and hot, dry weather has made dangerous fires increasingly likely…
    Our fire seasons now start earlier and last longer.
    This means we’re increasingly likely to see repeats of historically large fires threatening residential areas…
    This reflects evidence of a trend toward more extreme fire weather over the past 30 years, and lengthening fire seasons…

    This problem is being keenly felt in western United States, where fire agencies have warned that the fire season now lasts all year round. Not only that, there is clear evidence climate change is increasing fire activity in the United States; the record for the largest fire in California history has been broken two years in a row…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-17/drought-bushfire-seasons-starting-earlier-lasting-longer/10132570

    14 Aug: ClimateDepot: Climatologist Dr. John Christy rebuts wildfire and heatwave claims: ‘Our most serious heatwaves were in the 1930’s. We have not matched those at all’
    Christy argues that exacerbating fires out west, particularly in California, results from human mismanagement. Such states have enacted strict management practices that disallow low-level fires from burning, he said…
    http://www.climatedepot.com/2018/08/14/climatologist-dr-john-christy-rebuts-wildfire-and-heataace-claims-our-most-serious-heatwaves-were-in-the-1930s-we-have-not-matched-those-at-all/

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    pat

    the CAGW mob have completely lost it now:

    16 Aug: Guardian: Capitalism can crack climate change. But only if it takes risks
    Anglo-Saxon capitalism’s drive to maximise profits in the short term won’t save the planet. Perhaps the Chinese model can?
    by Larry Elliott, economics editor
    The good news is that in Beijing and New Delhi, policymakers have woken up to the idea that green growth is better growth. China is committed to phasing out coal…

    Winning the race against time requires political leadership. It means acknowledging that the Chinese model of managed and directed capitalism might be more appropriate than the Anglo-Saxon model…

    A massive scaling up of investment in clean technology is needed, because the $300bn spent on decarbonisation worldwide last year merely matched the cost of the losses in the US from climate and weather-related events. It also means scaling up the lending of the World Bank and the regional development banks to help poorer countries build wind and solar capacity. And a global carbon tax set high enough so that fossil fuels remain in the ground must be implemented…

    And, more than anything, it means accepting that the world needs to wage war against climate change. Powerful vested interests will say there is plenty of time to act, and they are aided by climate-change deniers who say there is nothing to worry about. These people need to be called out.

    They are not deniers, they are climate-change appeasers. And they are just as dangerously misguided as fascism’s appeasers in the 1930s.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/16/capitalism-climate-change-risks-profits-china

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      pat

      novel length, but devoid of CAGW/”Renewables”:

      2 Aug: Bloomberg: China’s Empire of Money Is Reshaping Global Trade
      Xi Jinping’s new “Belt and Road” initiative is designed to promote economic development and extend China’s influence. Bloomberg Markets reports on the massive project’s impact along the Silk Road.
      (by: Majendie is a senior editor in Singapore. Hamlin and Han cover the economy in Beijing. Marlow covers government in New Delhi. Mangi covers companies in Karachi. Gebre covers news in Nairobi. Bensasson covers the economy in Athens)

      China is building a very 21st century empire—one where trade and debt lead the way, not armadas and boots on the ground. If President Xi Jinping’s ambitions become a reality, Beijing will cement its position at the center of a new world economic order spanning more than half the globe. Already, China has extended its influence far beyond that of the Tang Dynasty’s golden age more than a millennium ago…
      https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-08-01/china-s-empire-of-money-is-reshaping-lives-across-new-silk-road

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    pat

    Trump achieved so much in 1 year? lol.

    Jan 2018: Guardian: Larry Elliott: Donald Trump is hampering fight against climate change, WEF warns
    World Economic Forum outlines huge increase in all five eco risks since the US president assumed office
    In the run-up to the US president’s speech to its annual meeting in Davos, Switzerland, next week, the WEF avoided mentioning Trump by name but said “nation-state unilateralism” would make it harder to tackle global warming and ecological damage…

    It said all five environmental risks covered by the survey – extreme weather events, natural disasters, failure of climate-change mitigation and adaptation, biodiversity loss and ecosystem collapse, and human-made natural disasters – had become more prominent…
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/jan/17/us-unilateralism-makes-tacking-climate-change-harder-wef-warns

    a laugh:

    Apr 2015: Daily Caller: Has Obama Fulfilled His Promise To Slow Sea-Level Rise?
    by Michael Bastasch
    In 2008, then President-elect Barack Obama said his victory marked “the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal.”…
    The Union of Concerned Scientists, an environmental group, says that sea “level is rising — and at an accelerating rate…
    The Sierra Club’s California branch says sea levels in the Golden State could rise up to five feet by the end of the century…

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    RickWill

    There is so much angst against rising power prices that Tony Abbott and other MPs opposing the NEG are gaining traction.

    We may yet see the Labor States and Federal Labor party support the NEG as a means of saving the LRET. If there was a federal election based solely on lower power prices by ditching the RET I expect it would provide a landslide win in the current circumstances. I get 171M hits on Google for “Australian power prices”. It is a hot topic and none talk about how low the prices are!

    The correlation between so-called “renewable” energy market share and power prices is a new awareness for many. Also the poor subsidising the more wealthy for solar power is tough for battlers and many beneficiaries to stomach.

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      PeterS

      I think the ALP states at least will now reject the NEG to deflect the flak coming from the public who are increasingly despising the NEG as much as they despised the carbon tax. Shorten might even do likewise. Then when he becomes PM he will sneak in his own version of a NEG with a higher emissions target. He won’t bee worried about the response from the public because he will have at least two terms in government given the landslide defeat the LNP is facing. Of course the sensible thing to happen now is for Dutton to go ahead with the alleged spill as many times as necessary to try and save the party at the next election or at least minimise the damage caused by Turnbull.

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    pat

    read all:

    15 Aug: Bloomberg: Germany’s Failed Climate Goals
    A Wake-Up Call for Governments Everywhere
    By William Wilkes, Hayley Warren and Brian Parkin
    Germany, the nation that did more than any other to unleash the modern renewable-energy industry, is likely to fall short of its goals for reducing harmful carbon-dioxide emissions even after spending over 500 billion euros ($580 billion) by 2025 to overhaul its energy system.

    Chancellor Angela Merkel’s government is grappling with the implications of ***failing to sufficiently raise the renewable share…

    Germany’s emissions miss should act as a “wake-up” call to all countries, said Gail Whiteman, professor of environment sustainability at the U.K.’s Lancaster University…
    Falling short on greenhouse-gas goals has implications for the planet…

    “The human fingerprint on rising temperatures was clear in the heatwave this year,” said Michael Mann, a professor of atmospheric science at Penn State University.
    “Stalled weather systems caused by a weakening and changing jet stream are probably playing with the unprecedented weather extremes we’re seeing around the world, with human-caused climate change playing a likely role here,” Mann said…

    “The challenge looks really difficult,” said Andreas Loeschel, head of the government commission monitoring Germany’s energy transition. “There was too much confidence that renewables would do the trick. It’s about getting dirty energy out of the mix.”…
    Shutting down nuclear plants is leaving Germany short of generation plants that can work on the breezeless dark days in winter when wind farms and solar plants won’t provide much to the grid—and demand is at its peak…

    The result is a puzzle for politicians…

    But grid managers need to keep the lights on. To do that, some big generators like RWE AG are anticipating the government may have to allow some coal plants to remain working longer than ministers would like…
    Outside the power industry, other parts of the economy have yet to face the overhaul that utilities have. For example, transport consumes 30 percent of Germany’s power, but only 4 percent of its use comes from renewables. Households are another big draw on the grid, and most of their power comes from fossil fuels.

    Despite higher energy bills, public opinion has remained supportive of the energy transition. Polls conducted by the ***Institute for Advanced Sustainability Studies in Potsdam found in its annual survey for 2017 that 88 percent of voters back the strategy to cut emissions…

    Those numbers are apt to shift when politicians resolve the debate about how their targets match reality. Either they will have to abandon the goals and live with more pollution than they’ve promised, or they will have to force through painful and expensive measures that further limit emissions…

    China, which is the biggest source of greenhouse gas emissions, has a larger share of its economy tied to factories and therefore will find it harder to make reductions…

    If Germany can’t succeed after all its efforts, it would be a signal the world must adopt more costly strategies to rein in emissions—like capturing carbon pollution directly from the smokestacks of factories and utilities.
    “Germany’s miss has bigger implications,” said Myles Allen, a climate change expert at Imperial College London. “The only thing that matters now is what we’re going to do on carbon capture. Without it, we won’t meet climate goals.”
    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-germany-emissions/

    ***Wikipedia: The IASS (Institute for Advanced Sustainability Studies) receives funding from the German Federal Ministry for Education and Research (85%) and the Federal State of Brandenburg (15%)…
    A strong network of national and international partners supports the work of the Institute. Its central research topics include the energy transition, emerging technologies, climate change, air quality, systemic risks, governance and participation, and cultures of transformation in the Anthropocene…
    The IASS collaborates with numerous partners in Germany and abroad. Its major regional partners include the University of Potsdam, GFZ German Research Centre for Geosciences, a research centre operated by the Alfred Wegener Institute for Polar and Marine Research, and Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research.

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    pat

    today’s scare in all the UK tabloids, plus phys.org & now being picked up elsewhere:

    16 Aug: Daily Mail: Rising sea levels boost the risk of devastating tsunamis: Small increases of less than a foot of water are enough to spark natural disasters worldwide
    •Tsunamis are caused by earthquakes and can kill thousands of people
    •Scientists found that rising sea levels makes tsunamis far more likely
    •An rise of only one foot increases the risk of flooding by 1.2 to 2.4 times
    •Experts created three tsunami simulations for the Chinese territory of Macau
    •They predict sea levels around the region will rise by one foot by the year 2060
    By Joe Pinkstone
    This could lead to the death of thousands of people in the most vulnerable parts of the world, they warn…
    Experts from Virginia Tech University warned that previous ‘absolute worst case’ scenarios now appear to be ‘modest’ predictions…
    The study, published in the journal Sciences Advances (LINK), involved scientists in Singapore, Taiwan and the United States…

    ‘Our research shows that sea-level rise can significantly increase the tsunami hazard, which means that smaller tsunamis in the future can have the same adverse impacts as big tsunamis would today,’ said Dr Robert Weiss, an associate professor of natural hazards at Virginia Tech who worked on the study…
    Dr Weiss and his colleagues created computer-simulated tsunamis for three different scenarios for the Chinese territory of Macau.
    These models used the current sea levels as well as looking at what would happen if they rose by 1.5 feet and three feet (0.5 and one metre)…
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-6063901/Rising-sea-levels-boosts-risk-devastating-tsunamis.html

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    PeterS

    Nothing beats pragmatism when it comes to big issues like power generation. The case is clear. Either the world continues to use coal and nuclear for the means to generate the vast majority of power required, which it will or the world heads back to the dark ages as economies and governments go flat broke trying to generate power with more and more renewables. Lesson ever. Turnbull at least do one honourable thing in your whole political career and resign. Spare us all the renewables garbage and allow someone else to try and turn Australia away from the brink of disaster.

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    pat

    16 Aug: UK Telegraph: Sorry, Project Fear, we are not going to drop off a cliff
    The scare tactics are still coming on a daily basis, but the threats don’t stand up to close scrutiny
    by Iain Duncan Smith (former Sec of State for Work and Pensions)
    It has become clear that Project Fear – the scare-mongering campaign carried out by those who want to remain in the EU – is alive and well. We are threatened on a daily basis that we could end up with “no deal”, “crashing out” or facing a “cliff edge”…

    We are already a WTO member. However, after Brexit there would be one important and positive difference: we would become a full voting member of the WTO, alongside the United States, China and even the EU…
    In short, the WTO offers the UK the chance to trade freely with other nations, but nations that are not interested in meddling in the UK’S affairs…

    ***There would be other advantages. Outside the EU, and unencumbered by EU rules, the UK could, for example, decide how to reform emissions trading, and wider climate change policy. Abolition of the damaging carbon price floor mechanism would be a good way to start. Such a policy could release more than £1 billion in costs, including millions to help domestic users of electricity, tired of seeing their bills rise. As a sovereign nation again, regulations threatening our ability to compete in the financial services sector could be brushed aside in favour of a more flexible regime governed by the Bank of England.

    In that regard, I was sorry to hear the Governor of the Bank feed Project Fear earlier this month, warning that the chances of “no deal” are “uncomfortably” high. He must have known that such comments would cause the pound to fall and that Remainers would trumpet his remarks, yet he still chose to make them. Furthermore, the latest figures show that UK GDP grew by 0.4 per cent in the second quarter of this year, an acceleration from the first quarter. The UK economy remains strong…

    It’s time to end Project Fear.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/08/15/sorry-project-fear-not-going-fall-cliff-edge-britain-will/

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    Annie

    Andrew Bolt on the Heraldsun seems to have the details of the NEG proposals not yet sent to Coalition members. No comments there yet but I’m not a subscriber so maybe others can find out more

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    Greebo

    Malcolm has been rolled on the 26% RET target. The end is nigh, as it is too late now. Newspoll on Monday week could be his last.

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    TdeF

    Breaking news from the Australian

    “Malcolm Turnbull has dumped the government’s plans to legislate the 26 per cent Paris emissions reduction target in a dramatic capitulation to rebel MPs and Ministers threatening to cross the floor and vote it down.

    Instead the 2015 climate change commitment will be mandated through Ministerial order and only after advice from the competition regulator that it wouldn’t increase power prices.

    A condition of the order would be that the advice would have to be tabled in Parliament.”

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      PeterS

      I’d be careful about what all this means. I’ve also heard that although he has dumped the legislation path he will now regulate it instead. It’s a subtle difference and in fact is worse. It means a future Labor minister can up the target with a stroke of a pen. We need more info.

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        Greebo

        Yes. That was one of Daniel Andrews’ demands, I believe.

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          PeterS

          So now the ALP is telling Turnbull what goes into the NEG while his party is kept in the dark. Interesting.

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            el gordo

            Yes its all happening so fast I can’t keep up. Could we put in Hansen’s amendment for new Hele coal fired power stations, that would get all the independents onside.

            Cory is quiet.

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              Peter C

              Cory is quiet.

              Yes. But he did say that he was staying out of the by-elections because the Government (ie Liberal Party) should have to sustain the consequences of any failures.

              Also there is a general election soon so the gains are slight. He prefers to husband the meagre resources of the Australian Conservatives for the general election.

              Why buy into the Liberal Party Brawl.
              Intervention by Cory would likely give fuel to the Press to slam the Liberal revolt. So best for him to stay out at this stage.

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                el gordo

                ‘Why buy into the Liberal Party Brawl.’

                Its much bigger than that Peter, we are shaping policy.

                If Cory is not with us at this critical time, to support the ginger group, then he can stay on the dark side forever. Going from nowhere to oblivion.

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                Peter C

                If Cory is not with us at this critical time, to support the ginger group, then he can stay on the dark side forever. Going from nowhere to oblivion.

                Thank You el gordo.

                I hope he reads these comments.

                However I may send something to the Aussie Conservatives along those lines, since I am a member.

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                PeterS

                el gordo how can Cory support the ginger group when he is not part of the LNP? If anything the ginger group should be supporting Cory by resigning from the party and joining his party to smash the Turnbull government. That’s the last resort solution that must be activated if the ginger group have the courage of their convictions. I bet they don’t do it when the opportunity arises and instead they will remain in the party as cowards and go down with it if Turnbull is still PM at the next election.

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        TdeF

        Exactly. That is what Shorten wants. Shorten’s Liberals. What’s the difference?

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    TdeF

    Also on Andrew Bolt, he has a copy of the Act. You cannot get it from Malcolm.
    Labor sent it to him!
    Laugh. Laugh. Laugh.

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      PeterS

      So the only ones who don’t have a copy of the NEG are the LNP members, apart from Turnbull and a few of his cohorts of course. Is this for real?

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      Greebo

      On Credlin today, Craig Kelly said he still hadn’t seen it. Shorten and other Labor front benchers got it Wednesday night!

      About a year ago I postulated an analogy re a Warner Brothers cartoon I enjoyed in the dim past. I cast Bill Shorten as the Roadrunner, running circles around Malcolm, who I cast as Wile E. Coyote, who’s wonderful foolproof schemes and devices from Acme proceeded to blow up in his face. I believe that this is Malcolm’s fall off a very high cliff moment. Hope I’m right.

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    William

    I don’t doubt that TA is a wonderful human being. I have never met him personally, but everything I have heard or read about him says that he is a good, decent person.
    This assessment however, does not blind me to the fact that he was a dud as PM. He was excellent as the leader of the opposition; and when he took over that role he whipped the Liberal rabble into a credible future government.
    But everything he did was as a follower: he reacted to the situation presented to him.
    In other words, he is a good follower, but a bad leader. There are limits to every person’s talents; and TA reached his as leader of the opposition.

    Regarding Peter Button: I do not know enough about him to make a comment.

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      William

      Whoops!
      I was responding to el gordo at 27.2.1.1.

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      Greebo

      I’m not 100% sure that’s fair. Chris Mincing Poodle Pyne has openly admitted that he and his Black Hand mates were undermining Abbott from before he won in 2013. Every move he made was sabotaged, and all the while Turnbull was stalking him, stirring up the media with constant white anting on the ABC.

      TA actually got quite a bit done, and given the chance may well have grown into a decent PM. One thing I’m sure of though; he was a heck of a lot better than the incumbent.

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        William

        Yes, you are probably right about TA being white-anted.
        But the one thing that turned me off TA as PM was his invisibility. He got elected, then disappeared into his office. Compare this to Rudd and Gillard: they were on every news bulletin every day. They were constantly selling themselves and their “accomplishments”; this constant highly visible selling is a fundamental and critically important function of the PM.
        I recall that after about six months, someone in desperation begged TA to get out of his office and be seen, and his response was: “Our accomplishments will speak for themselves”. I still cringe at that one.
        So I recognize that this may seem to be trivial nit picking, but to me it indicates that there is a fundamental lack of understanding of the role, and the mechanics of leadership. I have seen this type of failure frequently in business managers I have fired.
        As a parallel issue: we are going to have an election in Victoria this year. Do we have an opposition? Does the Liberal party exist in Victoria? I don’t know; I haven’t seen any evidence of either. So who do I vote for?

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    UweHayek

    Turnbull, apparently is “wedded” to his plan to be the only nation on Earth to legislate and mandate the Paris target.

    The Uk already did that.

    https://www.thegwpf.org/content/uploads/2018/02/Groupthink.pdf

    Start reading at page 45 below : Back in 2005, when David Cameron became Conservative leader, looking for new…
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