JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Midweek Unthreaded

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Midweek Unthreaded, 9.0 out of 10 based on 24 ratings

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389 comments to Midweek Unthreaded

  • #
    yarpos

    The feelgood, really we are very nice people, advertising from the banks if rolling out following the royal commission highlighting their true nature. Westpac is rescuing us, and the NAB will support us during loss. Its so comforting.

    If only one would come out and say we will stop raping and plundering you it would be nice.

    152

  • #
    Another Ian

    Now why didn’t Turnbull think of this?

    “I Spend a Lot Of Time Here Skewering Goofy Technologies, But… I Love This One”

    “Then there’s rail energy storage, which is about to get its grand debut. In April, the Bureau of Land Management approved an ARES—that’s Advanced Rail Energy Storage—project, conceived by a Santa Barbara-based energy startup called, well, ARES. By 2019, ARES operations head Francesca Cava says, the facility will occupy 106 acres in the excellently-named town of Pahrump, Nevada. By running a train up and down a hill, ARES can help utilities add to and subtract from the grid as needed.”

    http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2018/08/i-spend-a-lot-of-time-here-skewering-goofy-technologies-but-i-love-this-one.html

    A station at the top of Kosciuszko?

    80

    • #
      PeterS

      I have a much better idea. Build space elevators and use rocket ships loaded with magnets to go to the top of the elevators and shoot them down a pipe wound with wire to generate electricity. Collect the magnets at the bottom and take it to the top again on the next rocket ship. :-)

      130

      • #
        Yonniestone

        How about we build a huge space ark and put two of every type of direct instigators of the Climate scam on it, then tell them they’re going to save the world by landing on the sun and dousing it with water so earth doesn’t get so burnt up, punch in the coordinates and fire away.

        101

        • #
          auralay

          Too wasteful of good fossil fuel! Send them off in a sailing ship to explore the ice free antarctic winter. And tell any polar supply vessels with rescue intentions to mind their own business.

          80

    • #
      David Maddison

      The link below claims a 78% efficiency, similiar to hydro but it says concrete is used for weight rather than rock. Taking into account the energy required to make the concrete (and the harmless CO2 emissions) I wonder how that influences its overall effectiveness?

      What tax advantages and subsidies can they access in the US to make this worthwhile for the company (at the expense of taxpayers and consumers)?

      https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/rail-energy-storage-mb0165/amp/

      40

      • #
        Curious George

        The company claims an efficiency of UP TO 78%. 25% is also up to 78%.

        30

        • #
          Another Ian

          Like the discovery around here with a concrete tank with a “lifetime guarantee”.

          Turned out it was for the life of the company, not the product

          40

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      Endless search for the perpetual motion machine..Theres plenty on Youtube. Yup they all work too…., we can all have endless electricity completely free. Its called ‘free energy’. Let the goofballs reign.

      40

    • #
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  • #
    PeterS

    Those in the LNP who support Turnbull as their leader who will undoubtedly lead them to a landslide defeat at the next election and allow Shorten to become PM all have to ask themselves just one question, why? Here are the only viable possible answers each with a solution:
    1. They are mentally ill (get medical assistance)
    2. They hate traditional Liberal values and prefer left-wing socialist values (join the ALP)
    3. They are so divorced from reality they are effectively living on another planet (resign from politics and enter another career)
    4. They want Shorten to become PM (shoot yourself)

    Take your pick.

    160

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      PeterS:

      Those who backed the NEG obviously believe that the Fairy Godmother will wave her magic wand and fix things.

      120

    • #
      Annie

      I have just emailed Cathy McGowan, our Independant member. Having read some of what she was quoted as saying, to the Guardian, I felt constrained to let her know my thoughts. She said something about letting MT ‘finish his term’…eh what? Did they let Tony Abbott finish his?! Then she claimed that MT was popular in Victoria…not with me and others I know,; far from it. She said she’d be taking ‘soundings from the community’ (of our part of Victoria presumably, Indi). Hmmm.

      120

      • #
        James Murphy

        A politician is actively seeking the views of people in their electorate? This seems highly unusual.

        I guess there’s an election coming up faster than we think.

        100

        • #
          TdeF

          Labor have started their campaign. Even Clive Palmer has a huge poster on the Nepean highway in Brighton. He is Mr. Happy (the fat one) Make Australia Great Again. Sure, but that means we lock up the crooks. He may not have thought this through.

          60

  • #
    pat

    ***it’s all over for Dutton!

    22 The Guardian War Room? Christopher Knaus live blog
    Unpopular option? GetUp says Dutton not backed in his own electorate
    Aug: 45mins ago A bit more from Dutton’s interview.

    “In a country where we’ve got an abundance of natural resource, of renewables, of coal, of hydro, and yet we’re paying some of the highest energy costs in the world. They’re the sorts of things I think we should be working on, and if we do, I believe that people will strongly support the government.”

    He wasn’t prepared, though, for the classic FM radio question. What’s your favourite AC/DC song?
    ***Dutton couldn’t name one. Oops.

    52mins ago: Dutton calls for GST to be removed from power bills, royal commission into electricity companies
    Peter Dutton is already out and about, selling himself as an alternative leader. He appeared on Triple M radio in Melbourne, an FM station, and detailed a policy agenda of sorts. It was pretty populist stuff.
    He called for the GST to be taken off power bills for families, pensioners and self-funded retirees, as well a a royal commission into electricity and fuel companies…ETC
    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2018/aug/22/malcolm-turnbull-fights-to-hold-cabinet-together-as-dutton-hits-airwaves-politics-live?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Tweet

    GetUp: How we stop Peter Dutton
    We need to do whatever we can to stop this man becoming Prime Minister.
    Step 2: Donate
    https://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/federal-elections-2018-ditch-dutton/this-isn-t-over/how-to-stop-peter-dutton

    100

    • #
      ColA

      Well he has GetUp worried – go beg George Soros and John Podesta for more money!

      160

    • #
      James Murphy

      If he upsets GetUp! that much, then he must be a decent bloke.

      140

    • #
      Yonniestone

      How about GetUp GET STUFFED!

      Seriously if any Australian in the near future want’s to know what type of people would willingly act to bring their country to its knees just point out these specimens, then tell them if they went along with the MSM lies and voted for either of the two majors they hold just as much blame.

      101

  • #
    ColA

    I wrote to my local MP Gustine Elliot, about my concerns for the energy future of Australia. Here’s the reply;

    Good Afternoon Mr Andrews

    Justine Elliot MP has asked me to acknowledge receipt of your email and to advise that whilst your thoughts and concerns regarding this issue have been noted Labor remains committed to doing the best for Australian households and businesses. This means ending policy paralysis and not walking away from our commitments to 50 per cent renewables by 2030 and our 45 per cent emissions reduction target by 2030 on 2005 levels. Thank you once again for contacting Justine and raising your concerns.

    Kind regards Jodie Bellchambers.

    My Reply;

    To Justine Elliot and Jodie,

    To quote a popular movie – “SHOW ME THE MONEY”, show me;

    1.The detailed estimate of how many BILLIONS of dollars it will cost the Australian people to be driven to 50% renewables by 2030?

    2.Where will those BILLIONS come from??

    3.The detailed estimate of how many BILLIONS of dollars it will cost the Australian people to be driven to 45% emissions by 2030?

    4.Where will those BILLIONS, additional to 2. above, come from?? Or are we into TRILLIONS?

    5.And tell me the estimated reduction in global temperatures in 2100 that our TRILLIONS will buy? I don’t ask for proof that it will reduce the temperature – we both know that’s not possible.

    If you want my vote, then please convince me that you and your colleagues have a economically realistic plan.

    Yours Sincerely

    Colin Andrews, BE Mech.

    South Tweed Heads,

    180

    • #
      PeterS

      You should make it clear to her that their continued support for Turnbull will guarantee Shorten will become PM. Then ask her why LNP is still backing Turnbull and which one of the following points applies to her and all the other Turnbull supporters?
      1. They are mentally ill (get medical assistance)
      2. They hate traditional Liberal values and prefer left-wing socialist values (join the ALP)
      3. They are so divorced from reality they are effectively living on another planet (resign from politics and enter another career)
      4. They want Shorten to become PM (shoot yourself)

      50

      • #
        RickWill

        I doubt she supports Turnbull in any way. Justine Elliot is a Labor MP so possibly quite content with the thought that Shorten will be the PM after the next election.

        50

  • #
    PeterS

    So now Turnbull has GetUp as well as the ABC as his propaganda campaigner. Next we’ll see Turnbull turning towards the ALP and Greens to back him to remain as leader of the LNP. Oh I just remembered; he already has done that and are very happy to see him remain as the leader of the LNP, for obvious reasons.

    110

    • #
      Dennis

      20th April, 2017 – Dubious polling data is leaked to a left-wing journalist at the Financial Review newspaper in an apparent attempt to discredit Tony Abbott. The polling laughably suggested that Abbott might lose his seat to independent candidate James Mathison “in a landslide”. It was accompanied by commentary from anonymous “NSW party powerbrokers” claiming that Abbott was only saved by a decision of Turnbull to pump resources into the seat, including enlisting 2GB radio hosts Ray Hadley and Alan Jones to agitate against the other candidates. The front-page headline read “Revealed: How Turnbull saved Abbott’s skin“.

      Ray Hadley responded saying:

      “No one from the Liberal Party approached me. No one spoke to me. It’s the greatest load of crap i’ve ever heard. And it’s been planted by Malcolm Turnbull in order to discredit Tony Abbott.”
      Alan Jones responded saying:

      “Put simply, in order to damage Abbott, someone from Turnbull’s office, or the Liberal Party, has leaked alleged polling in Tony Abbott’s seat before the last election…The story said he risked losing in a landslide. It’s laughable. Absolutely laughable….Abbott won 62% of the two-party preferred, about the vote he always gets. But we’re meant to believe that the Turnbull robocalls turned a 31%, in this fake poll, into a 51% primary vote in the election proper. Well, as one of my listeners said early this morning: “If Turnbull’s use of robocalls successfully rescued Tony Abbott at the last election, how come he didn’t he deploy the technology more broadly and take the Liberals to better than a one seat win on the edge of the abyss….This stuff is laughable. This is all designed to damage Abbott.”

      110

  • #
    pat

    oh dear!

    TWEET: David Speers, Sky News:
    Dutton asked for favourite AC/DC song and says he can’t. Oh dear
    https://twitter.com/David_Speers/status/1032020624237969409

    40

    • #
      Mark M

      It’s a long way to the top when you cant name a song with which to roll …

      60

    • #
      Annie

      Neither could I as I never listen to anything ‘pop’ except Abba and a couple of others from my youth!

      70

    • #
      TdeF

      This really matters? Oh dear!

      70

    • #
      TdeF

      Perhaps David Speers could name one of Mozart’s Operas?

      100

      • #
        TdeF

        Or Liszt’s Concertos?

        Or the last of the numbered Appollo space missions?

        This is nonsense. AC/DC. Isn’t that a power company supplying LGCs?

        91

      • #
        Annie

        I wonder? If the standard of classical music knowledge is as abysmal as that demonstrated by the majority of teams on University Challenge (BBC) in recent years, probably not. I gave up watching it when a knowledge of pop seemed to be more valued as denoting the top of the academic pile, ye gods!

        40

      • #
        Yonniestone

        He’d probably say Swimsuit, Mistral, Flute……..

        30

    • #

      I’m really looking forward to the moment when a conservative leader is asked a gotcha by some journo and the answer is “Dunno. Don’t care.”

      Advice from a cord-cutter to any conservative: don’t plead, argue or play with media. They want you dead, so give ‘em your deadest stare as default expression. Answer all sensible questions bluntly and once. Demand re-phrasing of leading questions. Insist on being able to answer in full any question asked, without interruption. If they say that time is short tell them that time management of interviews is their problem and that they may dictate the length of their questions, not your answers.

      Approach the media with caution and loathing. Show your cheerful side freely in public, so the media know the failure to draw you out is their failure, not yours. They will hate this.

      Think of all the ridiculous stunts to humanise Gillard, climaxing with her knitting for Women’s Weekly. Think of all the photos of Malcolm in his R M Williams clobber or fluoro vest, wearing hard hats, clutching beers etc. Did any of it work? Not for a moment. If knowing about rock groups and songs is worth anything politically then Peter Garrett must be pope or secretary-general of the UN by now.

      Just do coal. Coal is what we want. We will notice that.

      190

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      since when is AC/DC relevant to anything?

      80

    • #
      yarpos

      meh….not so bad, at least he could probably spell it

      20

  • #
    Mark M

    Turns out emitting a trace gas (CO2) is a truly lousy way of killing mosquitoes …

    … “All mosquito species use carbon dioxide as a long-range indicator that a host is nearby.

    But … The best evidence for what motivates a mosquito’s choice between different people is the variation in our skin microbiota.
    This microbiota is mostly non-pathogenic bacteria and fungi which live on our skin and in pores and hair follicles.”

    Aug 17, 2018: https://theconversation.com/why-mosquitoes-bite-some-people-more-than-others-101353

    July 10 2018: Australian experiment wipes out over 80% of disease-carrying mosquitoes
    “In an experiment with global implications, Australian scientists have successfully wiped out more than 80% of disease-carrying mosquitoes in trial locations across north Queensland.”
    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/10/australia/australia-mosquito-disease-experiment-intl/index.html?no-st=1531266129

    Nov 7 2014: Cooler weather delays Eliminate Dengue trial in Stratford, Freshwater
    “The Eliminate Dengue team says cooler-than-average temperatures have delayed its latest field trials in the Cairns suburbs of Stratford and Freshwater.”
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-07/cooler-weather-delays-eliminate-dengue-trial-in/5874172

    71

  • #
    Ruairi

    It seems the Paris targets still control,
    Australia’s policies on use of coal.

    That China will no longer subsidize,
    P.V. solar panels is no surprise.

    Australia needs a solid pair of hands,
    To meet the people’s needs, not Green demands.

    No Australian leader will amount to much,
    Unless they govern with a skeptic’s touch.

    190

  • #
    pat

    it’s more serious than I thought!

    22 Aug: MusicFeeds: Peter Dutton Follows Malcolm Turnbull, Fails To Name Any AC/DC Songs During Interview
    Following a failed bid to claim leadership of the Liberal Party, Peter Dutton has followed in Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull‘s footsteps by failing to name a single AC/DC song when asked which is his favourite during a radio interview.
    Speaking on Triple M this morning after losing the Liberal leadership spill by 48 to 35 votes on Tuesday, Dutton was asked by host Wil Anderson if he could tell listeners his favourite Acca Dacce tune.
    Sadly, a clearly exhausted Dutton couldn’t bring any to mind.
    “Mate, this is one where it catches you out. I’ve had about an hour-and-a-half sleep last night,” he said.
    “I’ll try and catch up with you Will, but I haven’t mate I’m sorry. You’ve got the gotcha of the day.”

    After the interview ended, Anderson joked that he was worried by Dutton’s response to the AC/DC question.
    “I am worried about the fact that we might have two Prime Ministers in a row who can’t name an AC/DC song though, that still does worry me a little bit,” he said.
    “He handled it a bit better, but it still worries me a little that he can’t name one.”

    Dutton’s AC/DC gaffe comes after Malcolm Turnbull copped flack when he couldn’t name an AC/DC song during an interview on Triple M in November.
    Turnbull later copped it for not knowing the lyrics to John Farnham’s ‘You’re The Voice’ as well, because, well, Australia.
    Listen to Dutton’s full Triple M interview, below. Anderson’s question about AC/DC is at the nine minute mark.
    http://musicfeeds.com.au/news/peter-dutton-malcolm-turnbull-acdc-songs/

    10 May: news.com.au: Gruen host Wil Anderson accused of having ‘meltdown’ during filming and telling an audience member to ‘f*** off’
    WHEN the audience didn’t laugh at his jokes, host Wil Anderson is said to have had a “meltdown”, telling a member to “f*** off”, allegedly.
    It’s claimed he berated the audience for not laughing at his jokes, told one woman watching the recording to “f*** off” when she said the segment was boring and later stormed off stage.
    One audience member told news.com.au Anderson appeared to have a “meltdown”.
    “It was a complete dummy spit. To be honest he was a bit of a brat.”
    For his part, Anderson said it was a “terrible audience … just sitting back in their seats”…

    The ABC played down the incident and said there was “nothing untoward” during the filming and it was simply Anderson’s regular audience “interplay”…
    But when the show was done, rather than hanging around for selfies, Anderson went off in what appeared to be a huff.
    “Storming off at the end made him seem like a real pr***.”…

    On Triple M Sydney on Wednesday morning Anderson continued berating the audience putting the blame on them for “sitting back”…
    “We were doing Gruen last night and that audience was just a terrible audience,” he told The Grill Team…
    He said if they wanted to “sit back” they could do that at home.

    The ABC said the interaction with the audience was Gruen business as usual…
    https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/gruen-host-wil-anderson-accused-of-having-meltdown-during-filming-and-telling-an-audience-member-to-f-off/news-story/cdb34af17d83d04d31c552b6d8890718

    40

    • #
      Graeme#4

      I think a few of Will’s epithets could apply to him. He always seems to try and insert a leftish joke in the show and it’s usually weak.

      30

    • #
      yarpos

      I wander what he expects them to be doing? leaning forward in trembling anticipation of his next brilliant utterance? really Will if you arent that engaging on the night its not everyone elses fault. Sounds like an ego out of control

      20

  • #
    PeterS

    Peter Dutton has confirmed he is ringing around to increase his support in preparation for the next challenge to Turnbull’s leadership. Keep on sending emails to your LNP reps demanding they stop supporting Turnbull.

    150

  • #
    pat

    Trump on fire in West Virginia right now. mocking the sweet-sounding “Paris Accord”; praising coal. stating he would prefer to have FakeNewsMSM than see the censorship that’s going on against conservatives; reminds the left it could be them being targeted next time:

    this has been known for some time (tho not covered by FakeNewsMSM). it’s been reprised in recent days and the memo is a must-read:

    20 Aug: WND: Art Moore: Memo reveals Soros-funded social-media censorship plan
    Plotted with Google, Facebook to eliminate ‘right wing propaganda’
    The recent wave of censorship of conservative voices on the internet by tech giants Facebook, Twitter, YouTube and Apple mirrors a plan concocted by a coalition of George Soros-funded, progressive groups to take back power in Washington from President Trump’s administration.

    ***A confidential, 49-page memo for defeating Trump (LINK) by working with the major social-media platforms to eliminate “right wing propaganda and fake news” was presented in January 2017 by Media Matters founder David Brock at a retreat in Florida with about 100 donors, the Washington Free Beacon reported at the time (LINK).

    On Monday, the Gateway Pundit blog noted (LINK)( the memo’s relationship with recent moves by Silicon Valley tech giants to “shadow ban” conservative political candidates and pundits and remove content.
    The Free Beacon obtained a copy of the memo, “Democracy Matters: Strategic Plan for Action (LINK),” by attending the retreat.

    The memo spells out a four-year agenda that deployed Media Matters along with American Bridge, Shareblue and Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) to attack Trump and Republicans. The strategies are impeachment, expanding Media Matters’ mission to combat “government misinformation,” ensuring Democratic control of the Senate in the 2018 midterm elections, filing lawsuits against the Trump administration, monetizing political advocacy, using a “digital attacker” to delegitimize Trump’s presidency and damage Republicans, and partnering with Facebook to combat “fake news.”…

    The document claims Media Matters and far-left groups have “access to raw data from Facebook, Twitter, and other social media sites” so they can “systemically monitor and analyze this unfiltered data.”…

    Brock’s memo also says Media Matters gave Google “the information necessary to identify 40 of the worst fake new sites” so they could be banned from Google’s advertising network.

    The Gateway Pundit pointed out that in 2016, Google carried out that plan on the Gateway Pundit blog and other conservative sites, including Breitbart, the Drudge Report, Infowars, Zero Hedge and Conservative Treehouse.
    Facebook, meanwhile has changed its newsfeed algorithm, ostensibly to combat “fake news,” causing a precipitous decline in traffic for many conservative sites.

    President Donald Trump himself was affected, with his engagement on Facebook dropping by 45 percent.
    A study in June by Gateway Pundit found Facebook had eliminated 93 percent of the traffic of top conservative news outlets…
    https://www.wnd.com/2018/08/mask-off-social-media-censor-king-revealed/

    91

  • #

    If somebody said to you, that they had a type of graph, which showed clearly how much global warming had occurred in the past, and how much global warming was occurring now, would you dismiss it as rubbish, without even looking at it?

    Global warming is a very emotional subject. Many people “know” that it is a serious problem, and they will not even look at evidence which they think might suggest otherwise. I don’t think that this is a very “scientific” attitude.

    Global warming contour maps clearly show that global warming is happening. But how fast is global warming happening, and is it getting worse?

    Perhaps I should have called my global warming contour map, a “rate of change” graph. A “rate of change” graph can be made from the data of any time series. If temperature is used, then the graph shows how fast the temperature is changing, for every possible date range.

    A global warming contour map is made from a temperature series, like GISTEMP or UAH or weather balloon data. I don’t create the temperature series myself, scientists do. I perform a mathematical procedure on the temperature series, which is based on linear regressions (lots of linear regressions, normally between 150,000 and 350,000 linear regressions). The results are colour coded, and plotted on a graph.

    I am a computer programmer. The procedure has to be automated, because it would take several lifetimes to do it manually.

    If you are willing to “risk” learning something new, then you should check out my introduction to contour maps. The introduction uses Robot-Train train trips, and makes contour maps based on Robot-Train’s speeds (the “rate of change” of distance).

    https://agree-to-disagree.com/robot-train-contour-maps

    Robot-Train contour maps are easier to understand, than global warming contour maps. But they are based on exactly the same mathematical principles. Speed is the “rate of change” of distance, and the warming rate is the “rate of change” of temperature.

    One of the first steps in investigating any scientific issue, is to accurately measure what is happening. The data then needs to be organised accurately and logically, so that it can be understood. This is especially important when there is a large volume of data. A global warming contour map does these task efficiently, and effectively. The human eye is designed to detect colour and shape. A global warming contour map turns warming rate changes, into colours and shapes.

    A global warming contour map is not biased towards alarmism, or denial. It is as unbiased as a line graph (actually, you can bias a line graph much more easily than a contour map).

    There are many more advanced global warming contour maps on my website.

    https://agree-to-disagree.com

    I am happy to answer any questions that you have.

    Regards,

    Sheldon Walker

    38

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Global warming contour maps clearly show that global warming is happening.

      OR IS IT? Do the graphs show reality or playing games with the numbers to make them ALWAYS show increasing temperature?

      The problem I see is that if you look for evidence of something, especially something as variable as the weather, you can always find it, even if you have to play fast and loose with the truth.

      This year here in California where I live it has been unusually hot. But it’s not outside of recent memory except in downtown Los Angeles.

      The first week of March, especially here where I can get a cool sea breeze is usually cool if not cold. But in the first week of March, 1962 the high temperature was 100 °F (38 °C) or above for the entire week. I know because I was here that week and could read the thermometer myself. As far as I know that has never happened again.

      In 1949 in the San Fernando Valley north of Los Angeles it snowed 4 inches on each of 2 consecutive nights. Elevation approximately that of Van Nuys airport, 800 Feet (367 m) and latitude 34 degrees north is a place where it never snows in Southern California. The worst storms leave snow at higher elevations but never where it snowed in 1949. Again, I was there and saw it myself. That also has never repeated.

      So what should I conclude from these examples? And the answer is absolutely nothing, including that I should not be afraid of what the weather — of if you prefer, the climate — is doing to me.

      There is no evidence that human caused CO2 in the atmosphere is doing anything. The theory upon which global warming AKA climate change is based is as full of holes as the screen my wife uses to drain grease from her frying pan while keeping the contents from spilling out.

      I do not agree to disagree. I disagree for a good reason, no one has shown me evidence to support this nonsense about climate change. So there’s something changing. So what? So it looks scary to some? So what? You and your maps can’t tell me what it means any more than anyone else has been able to tell me so far. The weather changes every day, sometimes drastically and has since before humans were around to take note of it.

      If the process was natural I would expect some years to show a reduction in temperature even if the overall trend is up, not down. But no, they must make every single year hotter than the previous even if it’s only at one spot and only by a silly tenth or less of a degree C. Things simply do not work that way.

      Why is that? And why should I pay attention to it?

      150

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        This has been argued over and over and over again fruitlessly by those who want to gain something from climate change. Are you one of those?

        120

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        I remember the infamous CRU at East Anglia University where they were doing just what I said, playing fast and loose with the truth. No even close to convincing evidence has show up since then.

        If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck and goes, “Quack, quack…

        110

        • #

          Roy,

          have you checked out how different regions of the earth have different warming rates?

          https://agree-to-disagree.com/new-regional-warming

          Did the people who believe in global warming tell you about that?

          21

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            This sounds like the infamous Framingham Heart Study and associated cholesterol myth, rebooted, whereby the cholesterol “problem” definition kept changing as people proved it wrong so it was redefined all the time…..

            When they cant pin down proof of a catastrophic global catastrophe, the argument moves the goal posts to a regional “crisis”.

            No thanks. I’ll stick with solid science.

            80

          • #
            RickWill

            have you checked out how different regions of the earth have different warming rates?

            I guess the temperature profile of the globe is consistent with heat rising!

            30

          • #
            Just Thinkin'

            have you checked out how different regions of the earth have different warming rates?

            Who friggin’ cares?

            Get on with your life…

            If it gets cold, put on more clothes.

            If it gets hot, take off your clothes…take a cold shower…..move to the Arctic…

            Worry about something you’ve got control over…like, where your next meal is coming from…
            How much sugar to put in your coffee….do I have a coke or not….

            You get my drift?

            50

            • #

              Just Thinkin’

              if you don’t check out how different regions of the earth have different warming rates, then how do you know where to move to, to get away from the warmth?

              You said, “move to the Arctic…”.

              That is the WORST place to move to. It has the highest warming rate. Haven’t you heard of polar amplification (it really should be called Arctic amplification)?

              I suggest moving to the Antarctic. As a bonus, you don’t have to worry about being eaten by polar bears. But make sure that you don’t get between an Emperor penguin, and its chick. They can waddle much faster than you think.

              22

              • #
                Graeme No.3

                Sheldon:

                Trying to use logic on an AGW believer is a waste of time. First you have to persuade them that what they “know” isn’t true.
                That the Climate has been stable until the last few years.
                That it hotter than it has been for 1,000, 10,000, 50,000 or half a million years (I blame David King, one time – Blairtime – for those lies).
                That the vast majority of scientists believe the world is warming.
                That the Arctic ice melting will raise the sea level. (that’s the easy one).
                That somehow we MUST make sacrifices to persuade the rest of the world to cut emissions (and suggesting throwing virgins into the nearest volcano as an alternative doesn’t change their mind).
                Just because you prove that the world is warming differently (even cooling) in different places which contradicts the idea of GLOBAL Warming doesn’t seem to get through to them.

                They WANT to believe, so the only answer I see is to divert them into worrying about other possible disasters e.g. the Yelllowstone SUPER volcano (due sometime SOON), Asteroid impact (we won’t know until it is TOO LATE), Tsunamis (e.g. those that might have roared up the Rhine River and damaged those nuclear plants Ooops! that’s a failure.
                How about Trump turns feral? Bites the heads of endangered rhinoceros. They’d believe that.

                70

              • #
                Roy Hogue

                PLEASE !!! Stop making a fool of yourself while you can. The game is over and you lost.

                30

              • #
                clivehoskin

                How come,back in the 1970′s these”Scientists(sic)”were telling us we were going to die by”Freezing to Death”But then it morphed into”Global Warming.”Then it changed(again)to”Climate Change”Then it changed(again)to”Climate Disruption”So,which is it this week?

                30

          • #
            Screaming Nutbag

            That’s what’s known as polar amplification. The further you get from the equator the lower the humidity levels.
            The website you linked to demonstrates a classic example of Dunning Kruger.

            00

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        Sheldon,

        Being a pilot I was trained to watch the weather very carefully. Any pilot with a 70 hours or more on his log and stayed out of trouble with the weather is a fairly decent meteorologist. Humidity, altitude, barometric reading, wind, rain or snow, overcast, visibility (fog), temperature, all are critical when you fly. I had access to reliable weather briefings that came directly from the National Weather Service of the United States Government. By now they have become very good at predictions for the near future, the duration of a flight. And still to this day the National Weather Service says no climate change is indicated by anything they see. And they see it all. And they have stuck to their story in spite of NOAA, NASA, and everyone else.

        Your contour maps have only your word that they mean anything. Only you say they have more meaning than the fluff from a dandelion blowing in the wind. The dandelion actually has more meaning. It carries on the species and though it’s a nuisance growing in my lawn I think I don’t want to see it disappear.

        I would like to see you and your maps disappear unless you can present evidence, not your opinion but evidence, that CO2 in the atmosphere can actually cause the Earth to warm. I’ve put that challenge to numerous proponents of man made warming over the years that I read this blog and my answer from them is always the same… …SILENCE. Unless that is shown to be possible then everything else is a house of cards built on an assumption and not nearly a solid enough foundation for contour maps like yours.

        You can continue to say whatever you want. I’m just a reader and have no authority or way to stop you, nor would I because I know that Joanne Nova loves guys like you because you can so easily be torn apart by readers who know something about the subject. So think about it, you’ve been going nowhere so far. It’s nice to have a contour map but if it was on paper I might use it to light my fireplace.

        100

        • #

          Roy,

          I think that what you say about pilots, and the National Weather Service, sounds reasonable.

          However, you seem to have the wrong impression about me. Alarmists and Warmists have been calling me a Denier, for more than 9 years.

          My contour maps are based on mathematics, not just my word. Anybody who understands mathematics, can check my contour maps, and see if they are calculated correctly.

          Most of my contour maps are based on between 150,000, and 350,000 linear regressions. People only need to find one incorrect linear regression, and they can prove me wrong.

          Have a look, Roy. Find any point, on any of my contour maps, that you think looks wrong. Check the linear regression for that point, and if I am wrong, I will publicly apologise to you, and the rest of the world.

          Why do you want me and my contour maps to disappear? My contour maps have proved that there was a recent slowdown in global warming. Have you actually looked at any of my contour maps? Try looking at this one. If you are American, then you should find it especially interesting.

          https://agree-to-disagree.com/usa-warming

          Have a look at some of the other contour maps, while you are looking at my website. I provide them all for free.

          Please note, that a contour map does not directly indicate the cause of any warming. So if a contour map indicates that there has been some warming, IT DOES NOT PROVE MAN-MADE WARMING. If a contour map shows warming, it can be caused by anything.

          Another important point – a contour map is based on a temperature series. If the temperature series is wrong, then the contour map will also be wrong. Before you start insulting my contour maps, because of this, you need to know something else about how I operate. I don’t just produce contour maps from one temperature series. I produce contour maps from every temperature series that I can find. GISTEMP, NOAA, HadCRUT, UAH, RSS, weather balloon data (RATPAC), and many more. I have even made contour maps from the Central England Temperature series (CET), going back nearly 360 years (from 1660).

          And then I compare them all, Roy. I have probably calculated more linear regressions, than everybody else in the whole world, added together.

          I compare all of the contour maps, and I find the bits that agree, and I find the bits that disagree. And then I try to make an intelligent guess, at what is happening.

          And you want me and my contour maps to disappear. Good one, Roy.

          11

          • #
            Kinky Keith

            Sheldon,

            I think that the problem is that most of us can’t understand what you are on about.

            The other, obvious issue is that the data you are using is probably compromised in the scientific sense.

            As a Scientist I am concerned about quoting temperature measurements from around the world.

            I would like to work with more reliable data. Even recently we have been given examples of temperature measurements which show a fluctuation of one degree up to maximum and down again to the average temperature for that period. Some chaotic disturbance which, to some extent makes interpretation very flakey.

            Then if we go back 30,000 years to the peak of the last ice age when New York was almost 1500 metres deep in ice, maybe there would be some point in comparing atmospheric temperature then with now.

            The basic issue you have raised is interesting: that different areas of the globe warm at different rates, but your graphical illustrations do give me much to work with.

            444 T

            20

            • #

              Kinky Keith,

              I understand what you mean, when you say, “I think that the problem is that most of us can’t understand what you are on about.”.

              There is something about global warming contour maps, that many people find confusing. The format of the graph is unusual. It is displaying 4 dimensions, using 2 axes (the X-axis and the Y-axis) for 2 dimensions, colour for 1 dimension (warming rate), and the other dimension is hidden (you can calculate it from the X-axis and Y-axis).

              So there are a number of things about contour maps which are counter-intuitive.

              I have spent about 2 and a half years developing global warming contour maps. And even I have to be careful when I interpret them.

              All temperature series are probably not perfect. That is why you should look at all of them.

              Global warming contour maps give you the most comprehensive view of the temperature data, that it is possible to get. Not only does it show you how the warming rate varies over time, but it also shows you how the warming rate varies for different trend lengths.

              That lets you see if warming rates are consistent, or changing over time and/or trend length.

              Global warming contour maps show the chaotic nature of climate. Every contour map shows the short-term warming and cooling events along the bottom. The El Nino’s and La Nina’s. You can actually SEE the 1998 El Nino, in colour (actually 2 colours, red for the warming phase, and blue for the cooling phase).

              I have worked hard to try and make global warming contour maps more understandable. I invented Robot-Train contour maps to try and help people understand contour maps. I don’t know what else I can do, to make it easier. People have to be prepared to make a little effort, to understand them. I am always happy to answer questions, and help people in any way that I can.

              I get a lot of hostility from Alarmists and Warmists. I am not joking, when I say that I have been called a Denier, and verbally abused, for over 9 years. I also get verbally abused by Skeptics, who don’t understand what contour maps are saying. I am frequently accused of being an Alarmist or Warmist.

              I don’t really expect to win. But I am still here fighting after 2 and a half years. If I can’t win with mathematics and logic, I will just keep going until people surrender, because they can’t stand me any longer.

              00

          • #
            Roy Hogue

            However, you seem to have the wrong impression about me.

            You mistake mathematics for evidence of the one thing upon which any danger from human activity is based. I already know the Earth warms and cools in cycles. What it’s doing right now is in serious question because ao many players are putting forth their OPINIONS. I care not one iota for opinions, only for evidence.

            And you ignored the foundation question upon which any value in your contour maps will rest. Can carbon dioxide in the atmosphere warm the planet? Yes or no. Otherwise the fact that we’re warming, if indeed we’re warming, means nothing but business as usual.

            I await your answer.

            10

            • #
              Roy Hogue

              Just to nail it down, the fact that this year is hot where I live is evidence of only one thing, that this year it’s hot where I live.

              10

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          Correction: weather briefings I got were augmented by direct observation from grund stations along my proposed route. So they were even better than the NWS.

          10

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      I asked a question of you in relation to one of your previous posts.

      There was No Reply.

      No doubt my grandchildren are excited by multicolored triangles too, but I couldn’t understand the point.

      And please, don’t try and explain it, I think I’ve got the message.

      444 T

      80

    • #
      Tdef

      Global warming might be a problem but the only problem deserving attention is man made global warming. What do you have to prove warming, any warming is man made?

      110

    • #
      MuzoftheRiverina

      Sheldon,

      I ask the question:
      What element caused the end of the last Ice Age?
      Are we still coming out of the last Ice Age?
      How many Ice Ages has the Earth experienced and what is the time interval between them?
      When can we expect the next Ice Age?

      I look forward to your opinion as to the above

      MRS

      80

      • #

        MuzoftheRiverina,

        I asked Kinky Keith those questions 3 years ago, and he still hasn’t given me a reply.

        I agree with you, those are VERY interesting questions.

        Quite a while ago, I used the analogy of taking a bottle of beer out of the fridge, and putting it on the kitchen table. It slowly warms to the ambient temperature of the kitchen.

        Perhaps God took the earth out of his fridge, 100 or 150 years ago. He had to take an urgent phone call, and he left us sitting on his kitchen table.

        I am expecting the next Ice Age, on Thursday, next week. The local department store is having a sale, and there is 25% off all Ice Ages (Little or Big). You can get 30% off Medieval Warm Periods, if you have a voucher.

        15

      • #
        Mal

        Sunspot cycle. Cosmic gamma rays. Formation of clouds. Increased albeit from top of clouds. Solar cycle 25 is the lowest since maunder minimum. Real climate scientist say we have already entered the next minimum for next 30 yrs.

        20

    • #
      Bobl

      Sheldon your pretty pictures show nothing new, they show that in the short term weather is cyclic/noisy, in the long term warming. We know that! You use Gistemp which is skewed to warming by biases both UHI and researcher biases. Look at the satellite series. The charts also don’t show any cause yes we know it’s warmer than the little ice age thank god! Why?

      The problem here is that researchers like you go looking for warming, unsurprisingly you find it, but you never check ever physics to see whether it’s possible for AGW to do that. Does the physics actually support the differences in warming rate by latitude? Hmm, well nope, Houston we have a problem.

      All in all nothing new

      20

      • #

        Bobl,

        life is NOT fair. You think that I am a Warmist, or an Alarmist. But Warmists and Alarmists have been calling me a Denier for over 9 years.

        Could you please talk to the Warmists and Alarmists, and come to an agreement about what I am.

        I use GISTEMP, so that Warmists and Alarmists can’t complain about me using the wrong temperature series, when I find slowdowns and pauses.

        If I used UAH, then they wouldn’t believe that it really was a slowdown or pause.

        My global warming contour maps show reality. Sorry if that isn’t anything new.

        My global warming contour maps show large regional warming rate differences, between north and south. That means that Warmists and Alarmists have to explain the differences. Otherwise their theory is wrong.

        21

        • #
          Bobl

          Which is what I said. I’m not labelling you. Nor do I care how you label yourself. I am pointing out the weaknesses. Your analysis shows the regional differences well but we know that. If it’s warming then we should see it at the poles because of the hadley circulation but clearly that isn’t happening in the southern hemisphere.

          10

  • #
    Serp

    This is not a struggle populations can ever win decisively as there is simply too much money available to the Soros gang; nevertheless resistance to ignorant dullard policy is inevitable.

    The pity is that the multitudinous proponents of renewables are too illiterated and innumerated to be comprehend the basis of opposition to their fantasy.

    90

    • #
      Serp

      meant to comment on Pat at 13 not Sheldon at 14 and second sentence can lose the ” be”

      30

      • #

        Serp,

        Be like that! If you are not going to talk to me, then I am not going to talk to you!

        11

        • #
          Serp

          No offence was intended Sheldon.

          I have followed the links to your work and have yet fully to absorb what I found there.

          20

          • #

            Serp,

            no offense was taken. I was just making a joke (I have a strange sense of humour, I am a big Monty Python fan).

            10

            • #
              Yonniestone

              Is this the right room for an argument?

              20

              • #

                Do you want to have the full argument, or were you thinking of taking a course?

                It’s one pound for a five minute argument, but only eight pounds for a course of ten.

                Mr. Tamino is free, but he’s feeling a little bit conciliatory. Ahh yes, Try Mr. Walker, in room 12. But whatever you do, don’t mention global warming contour maps!

                00

            • #
              ROM

              I wonder what all those pretty line pictures would have looked like if all the computer calculations made to draw them had stopped in 1975.

              ie; Global cooling was all the go in the nascent climate science circles of the times with New York due to go under a kilometre of ice within a couple of centuries maximum was the all pervading prediction.

              20

              • #

                ROM,

                don’t just wonder about it, I have made global warming contour maps, and line graphs, which show people what it looked like.

                The most recent one that I did, used NOAA’s new ClimDiv temperature series. This starts in 1895, and replaces the old USHCN temperature series (US Historical Climatology Network). So this is data for the Contiguous United States.

                I made a “big picture” graph for 1900 to 2018.

                Then I made “small picture” graphs, for three 50 year intervals (with some overlap). These were:

                - 1900 to 1950

                - 1930 to 1980

                - 1970 to 2018

                1900 to 1950 shows some warming – the average warming rate was +1.12 degrees Celsius per century.

                1930 to 1980 shows a lot of cooling (the contour map is mostly green) – the average warming rate was -1.20 degrees Celsius per century. Yes, that is MINUS 1.20 – No wonder the scientists DIDN’T warn us about an Ice Age.

                1970 to 2018 shows a lot of warming (the contour map is mostly red) – the average warming rate was +2.86 degrees Celsius per century.

                But I have saved the best news, until last. There was a VERY obvious slowdown/pause from 2000 to 2012. You can see it on the contour map, and the line graph.

                Don’t just take my word for it, go and have a look at all of the graphs:

                https://agree-to-disagree.com/usa-warming

                While you are there, check out all of the other pages. It is free, and it is interesting.

                I am always happy to answer any questions, that you have. And I enjoy hearing what people think of my website.

                00

    • #
      PeterS

      The reason the globalists like Turnbull have been winning is they relied on much of the public to be lazy while being brainwashed by the education systems and the MSM. If only people just spent some of their time doing their own research and activated their brains, the likes of Soros, Gore and Turnbull wouldn’t even bother and would keep making their fortunes in silence. It’s all about power and ego and they are the only reasons they stick their noses into our lives. Now someone like Trump comes along who happens to also has made his fortunes in similar fashion and instead of being a globalist he is a nationalist with the prosperity of his own nation being his key focus, not his ego. There is only one way to follow the same path – join the US and make him our President. Of course that’s not going to happen so we have to muddle along as best we can under amateur leaders, be it Dutton or Shorten. The main thing is to get rid of Turnbull as he is part of the globalist group who want Australia to be ruled by the UN. Shorten at least as far as we know does not have that ambition, although he would lead us to the same end. So in many respects Shorten is the lesser of two evils. However, let’s hope it’s all academic and Dutton or someone else replaces Turnbull to lead the LNP to victory at the next election and keep Shorten from becoming PM, which is easily done with the right polices, even though most have been stolen from Abbott and Cory Bernardi, both of whom would make excellent cabinet ministers. Bernardi even dropped the hint on Bolt’s show he might re-join the Liberal Party under the right circumstances. Let’s hope those circumstances come true for the sake of the nation.

      90

  • #
    PeterS

    While we worry about running out of fuel due to our low oil and petrol reserves, Trump has done it again. If he succeeds, the US is about to ignite it’s second booster rocket and make the markets there go even much higher.

    US says conserving oil is no longer an economic imperative

    100

  • #
    pat

    20 Aug: WSJ: EPA Head Signs Proposal to Undo Restrictions on Coal Plants
    Trump administration moves to scrap regulations on energy sources, setting up a battle
    “The entire Obama administration plan was centered around doing away with coal,” (EPA head Andrew) Wheeler told the Journal in an interview…
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/epa-head-signs-proposal-to-undo-restrictions-on-coal-plants-1534803381

    21 Aug: USA Today: Coal comeback? EPA plan would prolong life for power plants seen as climate change culprit
    by Ledyard King
    “Today we are fulfilling the president’s agenda. We are proposing a (plan) that promotes affordable, clean and reliable energy for all Americans,” Acting EPA Administrator Andrew Wheeler told reporters Tuesday, adding that the Clean Power Plan “exceeded the agency’s legal authority.”…

    TWEET: Gerry Brown: This is a declaration of war against America and all of humanity – it will not stand. Truth and common sense will triumph over Trump’s insanity.

    TWEET: NYT: Breaking News: The EPA unveiled its new pollution rules for coal power. In the fine print: Increased emissions could cause 1,400 premature deaths a year…

    The Clean Power Plan rule was finalized in 2015, mainly targeting coal-fired power plants that account for nearly 40 percent of U.S. carbon dioxide emissions. But it remains on hold under a Supreme Court stay pending the outcome of a legal challenge from states…

    Gina McCarthy, former EPA administrator under Obama and an architect of the Clean Power Plan, called the Trump administration’s move “a huge gimme to coal-fired power plants” by giving them a “free pass” to increase not just carbon emissions but other unhealthy pollutants as well.
    “They are continuing to play to their base, and they are following industry’s playbook step by step,” she told reporters. “This is all about coal at all costs.”
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/08/21/coal-comeback-trump-epa-plan-would-extend-life-aging-power-plants/1049002002/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=amp&utm_campaign=speakable

    50

  • #
    scaper...

    Today marks the seventh anniversary of the Convoy of no Confidence rally in Canberra.

    I’m sitting here thinking…was it worth while? Yep.

    100

  • #
    Louis Hissink

    Global warmers, climate changers, sigh.

    It’s like ice skating on a pond that can’t support one’s weight, so you break the ice, and almost drown from hypothermia until someone takes pity and rescues you. Except that being a global warming, climate changing type, you start complaining that if you get warmer, a consequence of being pulled out of the near freezing pond water, you will melt the ice on the pond elsewhere and call into the cold water again.

    The Earth is still getting out of the Little Ice Age event, temperatures have not yet returned to Medieval Warm Period levels, and the climate changers fear that returning to MWP temperatures will be catastrophic, because last time they were in that part of history, the Medieval Warm Period, a Little Ice Age occurred to punish them for being warm and cuddly.

    82

  • #
    Louis Hissink

    The Earth’s negative electric charge, if not replenished, will deplete in about 7 minutes. As this is not happening, it is clear that there is a constant low level emission of negative electric charge through the atmosphere to the ionosphere. Electric currents passing through resistive matter produce heat or infrared radiation.

    The downwelling Ir measured at night time is caused by atmospheric electric currents, or the continuous bulk drift of electrons from the surface to the ionosphere.

    60

  • #
    pat

    21 Aug: Daily Caller: ‘The Time For Action Is Now’: Zinke Orders California To Stop Wasting Farmers’ Water
    by Tim Pearce
    Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke directed staff to draft a plan within 15 days that would “maximize water supply deliveries” to farmers south of California’s Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta, The Sacramento Bee reported.
    California’s State Water Resources Control Board (SWRCB) is holding (LINK) public hearings Tuesday on a proposal that would divert less water from the San Joaquin River for use in farms and roughly 3 million households. The SWRCB wants to increase the amount of water flowing from the river into the ocean in order to help fish populations in the Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta recover from historically low numbers.

    “The State of California is now proposing additional unacceptable restrictions that further reduce the Department’s ability to deliver water to Federal contractors,” Zinke wrote in an Aug. 17 memo to department staff, according to The Sacramento Bee.
    “The time for action is now,” the Interior secretary wrote, insisting that more water should be made available south of the delta for use by farms, homes and businesses.
    Further limiting Californian’s use of the water would force thousands to look for a supply underground, straining the state’s already depleted aquifers, critics of the state’s plan say.

    Environmentalists oppose the secretary’s plan…
    “It’s indicative of a more bullying and hysterical tone,” Natural Resources Defense Council California water program director Doug Obegi told the Los Angeles Times…
    Farmers argue that the water is needed for irrigation and to sate California’s high demand for water. Environmentalists say diverting water from flowing into the delta is harming stocks of fish, particularly the endangered delta smelt.
    http://dailycaller.com/2018/08/21/ryan-zinke-orders-new-california-water-policy/

    20

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Well, that’s easy to fore cast.
      More water for the fish, less for the farmers.
      Less farmers, less food.
      Complaints about the CO2 emitted by trucks transporting food into California.
      Calls for banning food imports – leading to Court action.
      Rising food prices.
      Lots of people leaving California.
      Claims that emissions are now dropping and “we MUST triple our efforts” etc.

      40

  • #
    pat

    lengthy:

    21 Aug: CompetitiveEnterpriseInst: “Whatever the Cost” of the Endangered Species Act, It’s Huge
    by Robert Gordon
    View Full Document as PDF
    For years, the snail darter, a little fish found in the upper Tennessee River basin, has been a symbol of the extraordinary regulatory power of the Endangered Species Act (ESA) of 1973. This fish, which typically measures two to three inches in length, was invoked by environmental activists to stop construction of a nearly completed dam. In fact, much of the ESA’s vast regulatory power stems from the Supreme Court‘s 1978 ruling stalling the Tennessee Valley Authority dam’s construction. In that case, the court ruled that Congress intended for federally endangered species to be saved “whatever the cost.”[i] While the snail darter turned out to be both more numerous and occupy other areas—an all too common occurrence under the ESA—the ruling demonstrated the enormous power of the then-young law…

    Four decades later, “whatever the cost” is, it is far greater than generally recognized, and the ultimate price of the program easily reaches up into the tens and more likely hundreds of billions of dollars. For landowners whose property becomes designated as habitat for endangered species, the costs include possibly substantial property devaluation.
    The costs for paperwork, federal and state agency expenditures, and recovery costs, which are often poorly estimated and tracked, still amount to tens of billions of dollars. Economic impacts are even greater…READ ON
    https://cei.org/content/whatever-cost-endangered-species-act-its-huge

    30

  • #
    PeterS

    Turnbull has asked the ministers who offered their resignation to pledge not to challenge or vote against him in any future spills. Let me get this straight. He won’t accept their resignation from cabinet but instead demands they stay and promise not to vote against him again. That’s like saying you refuse your spouse’s request for a divorce but instead demand the spouse to say and promise never to do it again. What sort of insane person would even think of something like that?

    160

    • #
      Serp

      But they’re politicians! A pledge is nothing to people who bathe in lies before breakfast.

      100

      • #
        PeterS

        I suppose that’s true. After all didn’t Turnbull pledge to support Abbott but knifed him in the back soon afterwards? What goes around comes around.

        120

    • #
      Dennis

      Malcolm Terminal.

      60

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      The Liberals should copy the British Royals.
      King John was so horrible that they’ve never had a King John since.
      After 2 goes it is obvious that the Liberals musn’t elect another Malcolm to office.

      20

  • #
    pat

    21 Aug: ThirtyK: Senate Energy Committee Focuses on Blockchain and the Grid
    By Mark Toner
    To understand one reason why the U.S. Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources held a full committee hearing Tuesday (LINK) on the implications of blockchain, look to Montana.
    According to Sen. Steve Daines (R-Mont.), the state is currently a net exporter of energy but the arrival of cryptocurrency mining companies could force it to begin importing electricity as coal-fired plants go offline.

    “This could pose a threat to the expansion of bitcoin (BTC) operations and an even greater threat to energy supply and prices for Montana as a whole,” Daines said, citing the example of an Australian utility that brought a coal plant back online to accommodate miners.

    Unlike an earlier day of hearings on Capitol Hill in July, no lawmakers at the Tuesday hearing were openly skeptical of blockchain or the cryptocurrency mined using it, perhaps because at least two of them, Sen. Maria Cantwell of Washington, the committee’s ranking Democrat, and Daines, come from technology backgrounds. But senators did voice concerns about the energy consumed by mining and security concerns if blockchain becomes a significant part of the nation’s electric grid…

    The industry experts and researchers who made up the hearing’s witness panel disagreed on the extent of energy mining consumes today, with global estimates ranging as high as 5 gigawatts annually, or about 0.1 percent of global energy demand. Even so, they argued, the issue is most critical in places where mining companies have gravitated due to low energy costs and cooler climates.

    Energy consumption “can be thought of as somewhat small in a global context but can seem very large in concentrated areas that are experiencing bitcoin boomtowns,” said Thomas Golden, program manager for technology innovation at the Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI)…

    ***Both lawmakers and panelists pointed to the longer-term potential of blockchain technology to modernize the nation’s electrical grid. That’s particularly important as energy deregulation has allowed customers to buy energy from different providers, and at times, sell their own solar-generated energy into an open marketplace. With millions of potential buyers and sellers, blockchain could help “manage all that chaos,” said Golden…

    In the face of often-repeated warnings by researchers that the U.S. power grid is vulnerable to hacking, senators returned several times to questions about security. Panel experts reiterated two points: that blockchain can be “as open to vulnerability as any other software” and that it is “one of a broad set of tools we must develop as we work to secure our power grid,” said Paul Skare, chief cybersecurity and technical group manager of the Pacific Northwest National Laboratory…
    https://thirtyk.com/2018/08/21/senate-committee-blockchain/

    10

  • #
    pat

    **govt policy/windfarms just two of the reasons for increases:

    20 Aug: Guardian: Adam Vaughan: Rise in power bills expected despite government cap
    Households likely to be paying £60 more for energy as suppliers pass on higher costs
    However, new analysis by the energy consultancy Cornwall Insight expects cost pressures to drive up bills by 5%, about £60 a year, by next April.
    That would take a dual fuel bill based on typical consumption to £1,268 at a time when consumers are already under pressure from slowing wage growth and rising interest rates.

    While the calculations rest on expectations for the level of a price cap for 5 million vulnerable households, the increases are expected to emerge across the wider market.

    Robert Buckley, research director at Cornwall Insight, said: “On the safeguard tariff forecasts, we believe there’s another £60 rise coming in April – mainly due to ***policy and wholesale cost increases. These rises will be felt by all suppliers regardless of whether tariffs are capped or not.”…
    Half of the big six suppliers – British Gas, EDF and E.ON – have already raised prices twice this year…

    Bulb, a fast-growing challenger firm, recently told its 650,000 customers they might be hit with a third rise in November. Wholesale prices were already 5% higher than in June, the company said, because the heatwave had hit ***windfarms and nuclear plants, pushing up electricity prices, while demand for putting gas into storage had kept prices high for that fuel…
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/aug/20/rise-in-power-bills-expected-despite-government-cap

    10

  • #
    Dennis

    28th July, 2010 – It is reported that Turnbull isn’t putting the Liberal Party logo on any of his campaign literature, signs or advertisements. This is a recurring habit, and yet more evidence that, for Turnbull, it’s all about using the Liberal Party as a convenient vehicle for his own ideological and personal agenda.

    Meanwhile, Turnbull has dinner with his ideological ally, Simon Sheikh from the leftist GetUp!, and proudly posts a photo on his social media accounts.

    Would someone like Sheikh ever be in a similar friendly photo with John Howard or Tony Abbott?

    http://www.stopturnbull.com

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  • #
    pat

    20 Aug: BusinessGreen: What do Britons make of the green economy? Five key takeaways from ClientEarth’s climate poll
    by Michael Holder
    When it emerged last week that the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS) had opted to scale back its quarterly quizzing of British attitudes towards energy and climate change, the timing could scarcely have been more generous to critics of the government’s green policy landscape.
    Gone now are regular government updates gauging public support for fracking, onshore wind, renewable heat, electric vehicles and smart meters, for example, with these topics instead covered only in BEIS’s annual questionnaires…

    But for campaigners keen to highlight public opposition to fracking and overwhelming backing for onshore wind, the government’s move was inevitably interpreted as an attempt to cover up discontent towards its pro-shale gas and anti-onshore wind (on the mainland at least) leanings. Some even dubbed it an “Orwellian” move.
    Of course, comparing the actions of a fictional terror state to Thursday’s decision to knock a few words off a questionnaire is a touch excessive, but the hyperbole goes to show quite how important those lobbying for changes to low carbon policies regard public opinion to be…

    As such the decision by environmental law outfit ClientEarth to today publish the results of a YouGov survey covering many of the areas downgraded by last week’s PAT – plus many more besides – was fortuitously timed (or perhaps just good planning)…

    The 35-page report includes a huge amount of details on attitudes to these issues and is certainly worth an hour of any green professionals’ time. Here are BusinessGreen’s five key takeaways…ETC

    Whatever happens, though, the UK public seems unlikely to want to follow Trump’s America and leave the Paris Agreement, as 82 per cent think it is important for the UK to keep its 2015 Paris pledges. All in all it is positive news, certainly, for anyone fearing the climate sceptics which dominate the hard Brexit wing of the Tory Party might get their hands on power in the near future.
    https://www.businessgreen.com/bg/analysis/3061324/what-do-britons-make-of-the-green-economy-five-key-takeaways-from-clientearths-climate-poll/

    if u can’t access this with the link to the survey, search the headline – In numbers: the UK public’s attitudes towards climate change – and click on the result which has a cached version. questions are LOADED, of course:

    20 Aug: Edie.net: Matt Mace: In numbers: the UK public’s attitudes towards climate change
    Undertaken by YouGov and commissioned by environment lawyers ClientEarth, the survey (LINK) quizzed 2,005 UK adults on questions ranging from climate finance to personal desires to install low-carbon technologies at home.

    62% believe government is doing too little when preparing for and adapting to the impacts of climate change.
    71% want to see greater investment in renewable energy.
    48% believe it woujld be acceptable for UK citizens to take the government to court if it failed to keep its Paris Agreement pledges.
    71% believe fossil fuel companies should help pay for damage caused by extreme weather events.
    67% believe that hotter and longer heatwaves are caused by climate change.
    62% interested in a pension fund or financial institution that considers climate change impacts of the companies it invests in.
    66% believe people should be able to challenge in court policy decisions that impact people in areas vulnerable to climate change.
    https://www.edie.net/news/9/In-numbers–the-UK-public-s-attitudes-towards-climate-change/

    10

    • #
      RickWill

      I wonder what the response would be if it was made clear they could save at least 30% 0f their electricity cost if they eliminate intermittent generators on their grid.

      100

  • #
    el gordo

    ‘After reviewing our climate models and projections of worldwide CO2 emissions, we have come to the conclusion that the only scenario in which the human race survives is if our thousands upon thousands of meticulous empirical studies on climate change turn out to be something we’ve been lying about all along,” said climate scientist Philip Vanderwall….

    “The evidence indicates our planet still might stand a chance of averting a complete climate catastrophe as long as my colleagues and I belong to a cabal of charlatans who are secretly paid huge sums of money to trick everyone into believing excess greenhouse gases will precipitate record-breaking natural disasters and worldwide famine. Otherwise, we’re all doomed.’

    The Onion

    40

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Ive coined a new phrase to cover the nonsense of renewables : “re-nonsense”

    http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-22/six-square-km-bookaar-solar-farm-plan-worries-locals/10138944

    Residents in the Camperdown district in south-west Victoria are concerned about the scale of a solar farm proposed to be built on farmland near the town.

    Camperdown, population 3,300, covers about four square kilometres.

    The planned Bookaar Solar Farm, to be located 10km north-west of the town, would occupy about six square kilometres.

    “It’s unbelievable,” local dairy farmer Andrew Duynhoven said of the size of the solar farm.”

    60

    • #
      ROM

      Camperdown is in the south west corner of the state of Victoria.

      It has a high rainfall allied with lots of cloud and mist particularly in winter coming in from the Southern ocean via the somewhat notorious for its mixed up and severe Bass Strait weather systems driving in from the Southern ocean to the west and south and funnelling through Bass Strait, all of which are only 45 kilometres in a direct line south of Camperdown.

      If you ever wanted to make a solar farm actually generate power on a somewhat consistent basis then Camperdown would be one of those locations that you most definitely would wipe off the slate before you even began to do any futher research on the better locations for a solar farm

      On the other hand and as there is a good road system and rail link to Geelong and then on to Melbourne and being only 195 kms from Parliament house in Melbourne , a pleasant mornings drive via a chaffuered limousine to “inspect” the Solar farm and enjoy a long and pleasant lunch in one of those nice little restaurants a few kilometres back towards Geelong and then enjoy the chaffuered limosine journey back to central Melbourne in time to take another pleasant tax payer funded meal around the Parliamentary precincts , then Camperdown is a suitable location for a solar farm.

      A suitable and very high classification level of tax payer funded subsidies is then a guaranteed outcome for the solar farm owners including maybe through arms length family couplings, some of the “inspecting” politicians who like to keep an eye on their family’s investments.

      Plus of course the hook up between the solar farm and the major HT line feeding from the Morwell brown coal power generators into SA is really smoothed over and can be accomplished with the minimum of public fuss and disturbance .

      If on the other hand you were looking to the long term future and really did want your solar farm to generate a fair degree of power, or at least somewhat close to any other solar farm that puts out power for a maximum of eight hours a day and achieves the solar panel’s maximum capacity Ratio of about 18% of the plated output , [ Camperdown will probably achieve about 10% of plated capacity output at a guess considering the weather and southern latitude of 38 degrees south ] with the belief that maybe the giga dollar subsidies for renewable energy may not even make another decade before being phased out, then you would pick spot north of Mildura in Victoria’s NW [ 34 degrees latitude ] where a long term research has shown that latitude to be arguably the most cloud free latitude in Australia .

      The Southern ocean generated cloud and rain systems only penetrate into the Mildura region in a much reduced intensity during winter.
      The summer sub tropical cloud, rain and storm systems from the north don’t penetrate with any intensity into the same Mildura latitudes during summer.

      But of course Mildura is at least a couple of hours flight time from the flesh pots of Melbourne and what director of a major renewable energy company [ sarc/ ] company likes to spend his /her productive time sitting in a small 30 or 40 passenger aircraft to get to where they wanted to go let alone convincing any politicians other than the local politicals to make the boring trip up and back just to boringly inspect a boring Solar Farm where little or nothing moves very much.

      So i guess in about 20 years time or less the Camperdown Council will be looking at a massive bill to clean up a smashed up former solar farm complete with its panels leaking and leaching highly toxic heavy metals into the environment.
      And with all that rainfall such toxic heavy metals used to generate power in solar cells today will be washing into the local enviromental water supplies, rivers and streams .

      But I guess one cost saver with a Camperdown location is that they will rarely have to wash the solar panels down to remove the dust on the panels as the rain and mist will do that with considerable regularity.

      10

      • #
        Another Ian

        ROM

        If the rain does as good a job of that as it does of washing dust off cars then I guess it will be “good enough for the renewables industry

        10

  • #
    pat

    begins quite well…but gets decidedly weird at the end:

    22 Aug: Reuters: COLUMN-No matter how many leaders Australia knifes, renewable energy will still win
    by Clyde Russell (based in Launceston)
    (The opinions expressed here are those of the author, a columnist for Reuters)
    LAUNCESTON, Australia, Aug 22 (Reuters) – Imagine a country that is one the world’s largest exporters of energy, but can’t agree on a domestic policy to end electricity blackouts…
    Imagine a country that is likely to start importing liquefied natural gas (LNG), even though it is about to become the world’s largest exporter of the super-chilled fuel.

    The problem for Australia is that this isn’t something being imagined, it’s the reality of a country that can’t find political and social consensus on climate politics and the role of its vast reserves of coal, natural gas and even uranium…

    The problem for Turnbull is that a significant number of his party-room are either climate change deniers or sceptics, or strong promoters of the coal industry…
    While Abbott may not have been axed because of his energy policy, there is little doubt that his plan to reduce emissions by paying polluters not to pollute as much was largely an expensive farce…

    The upshot is that Australia’s energy policy has been a mess for the last 10 years, at a time when retail electricity prices have more than doubled and the country has experienced widescale blackouts in the wake of the closure of several old coal-fired power plants…

    However, there are a few things that are probably clear for the future of energy policy.
    The first is that its highly unlikely a new coal-fired power plants will ever be built in Australia, despite the country being the world’s largest exporter of the polluting fuel, and its role in providing more than 60 percent of current power generation.
    No major utility has any interest in investing billions of dollars into a coal plant, especially given policy uncertainty and the ***certainty of wide-scale public opposition and protests to such a move…

    The other thing that appears virtually certain is that the main investment in electricity generation in Australia is going to be in the form of renewables, both large-scale and small, rooftop systems.
    Solar and wind farms, with battery backups, are already in existence in South Australia state and several more are planned…

    ***The seemingly ever-rising retail power bills are also driving consumers to rooftop solar with battery storage, which could result in lower demand from the grid but also could serve as a back-up for the grid assuming consumers are encouraged to make their excess power and battery storage available…

    The coal proponents circling Turnbull like sharks don’t seem to realise or care that their preferred fuel is ***likely to be replaced over time, not only by ***cheaper alternatives but also by a community ***that can see first-hand the devastating effects of climate change, as witnessed by the drought currently gripping much of Australia.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/column-russell-energy-australia/column-no-matter-how-many-leaders-australia-knifes-renewable-energy-will-still-win-russell-idUSL3N1VC6DT

    what a difference in the US. these are primaries, but everyone’s on board the coal train:

    22 Aug: KVEO: AP: The Latest: Hunter wins Wyoming Dem US House primary
    8:44 p.m.
    Former Wyoming state Rep. Mary Throne has won the Democratic primary to replace outgoing Gov. Matt Mead…
    She now faces a tough fight in heavily Republican Wyoming to become the state’s first Democratic governor since 2011…e
    Throne and Freudenthal have much in common politically. Both are staunch supporters of Wyoming’s coal industries…
    Throne grew up on a ranch in Campbell County and graduated from Princeton and Columbia law school…

    3:25 p.m.
    Wyoming gubernatorial candidate Mark Gordon says last-minute automated calls to voters are trying to tarnish his record.
    The Republican says some calls falsely accuse him of being “anti-energy.”
    Wyoming is the top coal-mining state and the future of the coal industry has been a big issue leading up to Tuesday’s primary.
    The Wyoming Mining Association says some calls come from a group named “Wyoming Friends of Coal,” which doesn’t appear to have a website or listed phone number. A message left for the “Wyoming Friends of Coal” through its Facebook account wasn’t immediately returned Tuesday.
    The mining association says the calls are “garbage politics.” The association hasn’t endorsed any candidates for governor, saying all of the candidates appear to support Wyoming’s coal industry…

    8:38 p.m.
    U.S. Sen. John Barrasso has fended off a well-funded challenger in Wyoming’s Republican primary….
    Barrasso won with help from long-standing name recognition and an endorsement from President Donald Trump. Trump won Wyoming by the largest margin of any state in 2016…
    https://www.kveo.com/news/politics/the-latest-trauner-wins-democratic-wyoming-senate-primary/1386809245

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    • #
      Dave in the States

      I am sad to see Gordon finish as the front runner so far. Gordon is the bureaucrat’s man. A probable RHINO. They all say they support coal because it would be political suicide in Wyo to not do so. Where they really stand is usually a mystery until they take office. One of the Republican Gov candidates had started a subsidy farming company call Green House Gas Solutions or something like that. He was a stealth Green candidate on the Republican ticket. He did not say he was a wind farmer, but the word finally got out. He will finish well down the line. The best two, and two of the three true conservatives, unfortunately, will probably finish second and third.

      Barrasso is far from perfect but the out of stater sent in to primary him out was really a democrat, so that is good. That’s the way the Democrats roll in places like Wyoming. They get RHINOs to run in the primaries on the Republican ticket because it is highly unlikely that the Demo will win in the general election. If the Democrat wins then it is a win, but if he/she loses and they probably will, they get a RHINO, anyway, if they succeed to primary out the conservative.

      ALL the candidates were very careful to not get pinned down on climate change or renewable energy at every level. It is very difficult to vet politicians in western states on such issues.

      30

  • #

    Okay, so I did the hateful and checked the “news” headlines today.

    The knives are already out for Dutton, the faux-conservative Murdoch press echoing the luvvie media as expected. I note that someone we’re supposed to know about called Karl has been put down by that feisty and elegant Julie we’re all supposed to like (except we don’t).

    In amongst the manipulative slop I read a report that Dutton has a solution involving removing GST from power bills.

    What?

    This is like leaving nails on a road and offering new tyre fitting to anyone with a flat.

    No, no, no. Reducing power bills can only be the shorter term effect of ditching all the green blobby stuff and the longer term effect of modernising and extending coal power.

    If Dutton doesn’t get it and is playing about the edges of the problem then we get down to the graveyard and dig up Abbott. Or find someone else who does get it.

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    Another Ian

    You mightn’t have believed it but seems like it is possible!

    “From the “Nuttier than Lewandowsky” department.

    With Chalmers University of Technology, Sweden, as a hub, the world’s first global research network into climate change denial has now been established. Building on a brand-new research publication showing the links between conservatism, xenophobia and climate change denial, the network will study how the growth of right-wing nationalism in Europe has contributed to an increase in climate change denial.”

    More at

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/08/21/eye-roller-study-climate-change-denial-strongly-linked-to-right-wing-nationalism/

    50

    • #
      Bobl

      Started by arts graduates no doubt. Maybe they should study the link between scepticism and numeracy instead. Anyone bothered to work through the math knows what they say is impossible. For example IPCC claim 3.7 watts in back radiation begets 3.3 degree surface temperature rise, but the 3.3 degrees surface temp rise by S-B theorem begets a 16 watt emission rise from the surface. 3.7watts in to 16 watts out violates the law of conservation of energy.

      But… this isn’t about science it’s about moral hygene, preening oneself in public. Best argument is still whether it’s worth killing grannies and babies every winter for the next hundred years in order to lower the temperature a fraction of a degree after that hundred years for those great great (great) grandchildren that can tear themselves away from their X box 50 long enough to go outside.

      20

  • #
    Jeff

    “Dutton calls for GST to be removed from power bills, royal commission into electricity companies”

    This guy has no chance of winning an election.

    60

    • #

      If true, Dutton is hopeless. Feeding lawyers and compensating states are his bright ideas. Hopeless.

      Meanwhile Murdoch is promoting Clintonista Bishop, who will probably also get a good honeymoon from the luvvie media. Because every energy-poor industrial desert needs a chick for its PM.

      An unlikeable bloke like Dutton only has a shot if he shows resolution and intellect. Seems he doesn’t have either.

      Go with Abbott, Libs. And hope.

      70

      • #
        el gordo

        Murdoch gives his editors freedom and The Daily Terror is running the story because its newsworthy. Remember the organisation is fair and balanced.

        Bishop wil depart with Malcolm, presumably. There is a rumour going the rounds that Greg Hunt wants the Deputy’s job, but I would rather see him stay on the backbench for a few years until he has been purged of AGW thoughts.

        50

      • #
        Jeff

        “Go with Abbott, Libs. And hope”

        I think he would have a lot more chance than Dutton,
        he won an election and already has a high public profile.

        20

      • #
        yarpos

        Good ideas and winning the next election arent necessarily the same thing

        10

    • #
      el gordo

      The rumour mill, its probably not true because it came from the detestable Guardian.

      40

      • #

        Here’s hoping I’ve jumped the gun. But if it’s true Dutton has already had his Sir Prince Phil moment. Already!

        30

        • #
          el gordo

          That is a slur on Tony Abbott.

          How quickly we forget that the Queen asked Tony if he would make Phil a Knight. He could hardly refuse

          The media vilified him and obviously he couldn’t defend himself, it was his cross to carry.

          42

          • #

            EG, he had to refuse. A PM has to be able to say no to anyone. If he had knighted Mal Meninga and Cathy Freeman there is a good chance that the rest of us would have had a laugh but that the Queenslanders would have been in such a good mood they would have returned the Newman government.

            I’m a monarchist because I’d rather have a professional head of state on the other side of the world than a President Keating or President Gillard. (GGs should simply be any retired naval officer who can stay sober while the sun is up and cut ribbons.) I also like a connection to traditions, but not at any cost. Unlike her son, Liz is not a petulant fuss-budget. Abbott needed to explain politely before saying no firmly.

            20

            • #
              el gordo

              Okay it was a bad call, we are all prone to human error, but now Tony is a man on a mission.

              Do you think he would make a good Foreign Affairs Minister?

              20

              • #

                For me, he’s too much of a crusader for FA, but I guess that depends on where you stand on the war and geopolitics thing. Not many fellow conservatives share my views on all that so I try to keep to climate wars and the Blob.

                What I like about Abbott is that he’s a sincere conservative who knows how to be a sneak. That means the public can like him while he can still kill an enemy when he needs to.

                Why not put Abbott in charge of energy? Energy is the big one right now, almost the only one. A primo energy supply based on modernised coal means everyone benefits, from the frail pensioner to the aluminium smelter. With top-class and affordable energy, other things come. Without that, we’re a South Pacific slum attached to a mine for the globalists – and permanently in hock to the fake tan brigade.

                40

              • #
                el gordo

                ‘Why not put Abbott in charge of energy?’

                Craig Kelly would be a better choice for Energy, after shaving it off from Environment, which should go to Hunt.

                I want Abbott as FA because only he can smash down AGW on the world stage,

                30

        • #

          When it comes to action some there are, Trump ‘MAGA,’
          Commanders of ships in war time… who-just-do-it! Others
          need to grow in the task, but show signs by taking the
          first step, need to encourage -let them know you’ll back
          them up, there’s a responsibility in the easier task of
          barracking from the side lines, back them up – fight “Get Up’
          ‘Media Matters’ both Soros funded propaganda machines for
          global governance, get out there, take risks.

          That means me…A great tradition that rescued serfs from
          slavery is at risk. (

          444T

          30

    • #
      PeterS

      I was afraid of something like that. He’s not on par with Abbott. Alas I doubt Abbott will return as PM. I even think he doesn’t really want to although I’m almost certain he would if enough people talk to him and his support is large. Reality bites – much of the LNP do not support him and some even hate him more then they hate the Greens. That’s why I look forward to seeing the LNP self destruct and make room for a true conservative party. The way things are going Turnbull and Shorten will do that for us.

      20

      • #
        el gordo

        Oh the humanity, the man is a socialist.

        “I think that is important for pensioners, for self-funded retirees, for people that are finding it difficult to pay the bills each month.”

        Peter Dutton . Radio 3AW

        ———————–

        ‘That’s why I look forward to seeing the LNP self destruct ….’

        So you reckon Cory won’t rejoin with an offer of a Junior Ministry?

        20

        • #
          PeterS

          Cory would be silly to join the LNP while it’s spiralling to death with Shorten already packing his bags to move into the lodge. He would be far better off staying where he is in the Senate to help block bad policies from either major party. If the LNP manage to elect the right sort of leader and end up winning the election then he might re-join.

          20

          • #
            el gordo

            ‘…with Shorten already packing his bags to move into the lodge.’

            Then he will have to unpack because the Coalition is going to win in a landslide and I just thought Cory might like to be a part of this political Renaissance.

            Remember he left the Liberal Party because of Turnbull, but Dutton is a centre right conservative and I think he has the ability to marginalise ACP and ON.

            You may have heard that Greg Hunt is going for the Deputy’s job, but instead he should be put back in Environment, wound up and told what to say.

            22

            • #
              ROM

              In todays political environment don’t bet on anything because anything is possible.

              Always remember as some british politician put it, A week is a long time in politics

              A few quotes to assist one with understanding politics;
              .

              I don’t make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts.

              Will Rogers
              .
              In politics stupidity is not a handicap.

              Napoleon Bonaparte
              .
              If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there’d be a shortage of sand.

              Milton Friedman
              .
              Politics is war without bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed.

              Mao Zedong
              .
              Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself.

              Mark Twain

              10

      • #

        Peter, it will be far too late. Recasting the Libs, Nats etc is not nearly as important as saving, modernising and extending every part of our coal industry and coal power generation. That can’t wait till the next bunch of Labor wreckers hits the wall.

        The coalition needs a leader right now who is firmly and openly opposed to Green Blob and who has some electoral appeal. If Dutton is dithering on the Blob and lacks appeal…then someone else. It’s not much of a punt, but it’s the only punt.

        Without serious electricity available to all and affordable by all we’re done for.

        60

        • #
          PeterS

          There’s no future for the LNP with Turnbull. His party is continually bleeding voters. The only hope for the LNP is to elect a leader who will take to the next election promises that the RET schemes and renewables subsidies will be abolished and the immigration intake slashed. Abbott is that man unless Dutton or whoever else adopts Abbott’s stance on these issues IN FULL. Spend enough time and money selling those messages to the public and let the people choose which party they prefer. If ALP+Greens then so be it. They will teach the public they made a fatal error in not voting for the LNP with those policies.

          20

    • #
      Bobl

      Fiddling around the edges, while this is probably a good move the Paris economic trap from which we foolishly took the bait needs to be dumped and all resultant activity permanently canned. Trump gets this was always an economic trap designed to advantage the eastern Europeans over the US and western Europe.

      40

  • #
    el gordo

    Beijing is trying hard to reinvent themselves, but a real democracy is someway off.

    ‘On March 8, China Democratic League Central Committee Chairman Ding Zhongli said at a press conference for his party that “the multiparty cooperation system explained by the general secretary is China’s creation…This system first of all is different from the one-party system, and is also different from Western competitive multiparty system, our [system] is the multiparty cooperative system led by the CCP.”

    The Diplomat

    20

  • #
    Hanrahan

    It’s 6:55 and a news flash says the libs are calling for a party room meeting. I think the rules are that they need 50% to call it so if it goes ahead Trumble is [finally] toast.

    I think there will be more’n one nominee.

    40

    • #
      Phillthegeek

      They need 43 signatures and even then they cant force a meeting. Turnbull has to agree to it.

      10

      • #
        el gordo

        It has been prophesied that his day of reckoning is tomorrow.

        10

        • #
          PeterS

          Even if Turnbull survives tomorrow it’s not over by a long shot. If the polls keep going south in a big way and I suspect they will after all this week’s show the LNP have only one thing to focus on until it’s resolved; change of leader. If necessary they should have a spill every day until it’s done. Otherwise, Shorten might as well start purchasing new furniture for the Lodge.

          20

          • #
            el gordo

            ‘If the polls keep going south in a big way and I suspect they will …’

            I suspect the new broom will get a honeymoon lift in the polls after the reshuffle, then from there it will be easy sailing.

            10

          • #
            Hanrahan

            Even if Turnbull survives tomorrow it’s not over by a long shot.

            He is dead Mal walking. The only thing that surprises me is that he has any support at all. In the parlance of the trades he is “passion fingers”. If he were to lead the party to the next election the rump left could use the proverbial Tarago as their transport.

            30

            • #
              PeterS

              Yes he is dead man walking but he could be in that state until the election and then Shorten wins. The fact that the LNP are still fighting amongst themselves goes to show how divorced from reality many are. So many, such as Bishop will still think Turnbull is the right person even after he is dead and buried. With people like that in the party who needs Shorten to defeat the LNP? Some in the LNP should really be expelled from the party but of course that won’t happen and the feud continues no matter who is the leader. Anyway, let’s hope tomorrow is funeral time for Turnbull.

              30

              • #
                el gordo

                Bishop is brainless and like Malcolm she believes in global warming, we are about to get rid of both.

                ‘Some in the LNP should really be expelled from the party …’

                It would be smarter to convert them to the view that CO2 doesn’t have any impact on temperatures, then they could put up a decent fight at the election.

                Remember that Shorten thinks coal is dirty and dangerous, he needs to be publicly mocked.

                30

              • #
                yarpos

                I imagine Jules will nice a nice ambassadorial or UN role to go on with once the dust has settled. She does rather like NYC.

                20

              • #
                yarpos

                “nice a nice” ?? get a nice

                20

              • #
                el gordo

                Very noice job in Brussels.

                10

  • #
    Another Ian

    ” Turnbull to enter the bunker for the last time
    Wednesday, 22 August 2018

    #BREAKING: Liberal MPs are calling for a party room to be held tonight. It is understood a petition is currently being circulated. https://t.co/d9T1EKhShU
    — The Australian (@australian) August 22, 2018″

    http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2018/08/turnbull-enters-the-bunker-for-the-last-time-tonight.html

    40

  • #
    Crakar24

    Friend of mine is in the Victoria police, a Samoan stated to him “the hardest thing about living in this country is you can’t beat your wife”.

    Why do we let barbarians like this live in our country?

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      Hanrahan

      We have enough home grown barbarians. In this PC world I can’t nominate who raped a 2 yr old girl and gave her an STD. But it’s a cultural thing so it’s OK.

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        TdeF

        Can we please get back to Global Warming?

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        • #
          TdeF

          Or even the overthrow of a faux Prime Minister who stole his job on the pretext that he was a better communicator, more collaborative and had not lost 30 opinion polls.

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            yarpos

            Thought it was unthreaded, have we got to be on topic in the off topic area now? I got castigated for such an offence in another forum :-)

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      TdeF

      Completely off topic, that man is dangerous, in any community. Still there is the question of different cultures and we have to decide who comes here and under what conditions.

      Part of the fracas in parliament is that we, the people, want our government back. Labor or Liberal, we want our culture back, or rights, our electricity and our money. We want courts to back the police. We wants law and order. No community has the right to bring cultural violence to this country, from the IRA to ISIS to casual violence endemic in some. We the people want, what we have always wanted, to live in peace and prosperity, not to be told how to live by academics or foreigners and certainly not told to blow up our power stations and buy windmills.

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    pat

    never saw this on ABC’s “Just In” pages.

    22 Aug: ABC: Massive solar farm plan has residents up in arms over project that would be bigger than their town
    ABC South West Vic By Matt Neal and Daniel Miles
    Camperdown, population 3,300, covers about four square kilometres.
    The planned Bookaar Solar Farm, to be located 10km north-west of the town, would occupy about six square kilometres.

    “It’s unbelievable,” local dairy farmer Andrew Duynhoven said of the size of the solar farm.
    “The sheer scale of this … it’s actually bigger than Camperdown itself.”
    Mr Duynhoven is part of a growing group of residents concerned about renewable energy company Infinergy Pacific’s ambitions in the region.

    Power of the sun
    The Bookaar Solar Farm would feature 700,000 panels, each measuring about two metres by one metre and standing four metres high.
    It would be capable of generating roughly 200 megawatts of electricity, or enough to “supply clean energy to power the equivalent of 80,000 average Victorian homes each year”, according to Infinergy Pacific’s planning application…

    The plans for the project have been put out for public comment by Corangamite Shire Council, with councillors expected to consider their next step regarding the proposal at their September meeting…
    “With any project when involved with agricultural land, it’s always going to be questioned,” Cr Beard said.
    “That’s no different to whether it’s been a tourism project we’ve looked at, or even people wanting to subdivide — it always comes back to what are the implications [for] farming land.
    “From what I can gather so far, that has certainly been the big question.”

    ***Conflicts of interest
    One councillor who won’t be involved in the decision-making process is Bev McArthur.
    The proposed solar farm is on land owned by her family.
    Cr Beard said Cr McArthur declared a conflict of interest and had not been part of any council discussions or briefings on the project.
    Cr McArthur may not be part of the council for long though — she was preselected by the Victorian Liberal party last weekend for the Upper House seat of Western District, potentially taking the seat that was occupied by outgoing MP Simon Ramsay.
    Cr McArthur refused to answer questions about the planned solar farm.

    Mr Duynhoven said he was “not against solar farms”.
    “I would dearly love to have a heap of [solar] panels on my dairy and I will have in the near future,” he said.
    “I’m not anti-solar. I’m anti this farm, just on the sheer scale of it.”

    Mr Duynhoven and the newly formed group opposing the project have a shopping list of concerns and queries.
    These include visual amenity, road use during construction, glint and glare, fire risk and firefighting access concerns, the effect of night lighting, the impact on wildlife, drainage issues, noise, nearby property devaluations, and the possibility of micro-climate changes.
    But one of the main concerns the group has is the loss of prime agricultural land.
    “[Most of Australia is] in drought — we’re not in drought so we’re the food bowl,” he said.
    “We’re the most secure food producing [area in Australia].
    “[If they approve] this large-scale solar farm, what precedent does it set in the protection of prime agricultural land?”

    The planning permit application seeks to address many of the groups claims, saying that noise and glint would be minimal, drainage would not be impacted, and visual amenity would be somewhat mitigated by a vegetation screen…
    Mr Seymour confirmed the site was previously earmarked for a wind farm, but when the proponents dropped out, “Infinergy Pacific assessed the feasibility of site and concluded that a solar farm would be the most appropriate form of development”.
    He said the property had “characteristics that make it a good place for a solar farm” such as flat topography, nearby transmission lines, good sunlight, and no significant environmental constraints.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-22/six-square-km-bookaar-solar-farm-plan-worries-locals/10138944

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      TdeF

      There is not enough power in the sun if you have to capture it like this. As Climate Councillor Will Steffen said, there is twice the power in the sun each year that Victoria needs.

      Read it backwards.

      In his opinion if you covered half of Victoria in solar panels just to match the few power plants in the Yallourn valley, you would have achieved nothing. Half the land would be gone. Worse, we would still not have any power on any night or any cloudy wet day.

      Each year we spend a million years of free stored sunshine. Luckily we still have 300 years to go. Time to come up with something better, other than short term windmills and nearly useless solar panels.

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        TdeF

        I had to calculate the cost, based on Booklar’s 6sq.km for $150Million.
        So 120,000 sq km for half of Victoria. That’s 20,000 x $150Million or $3Trillion dollars.
        More than the GDP of Britain, all on solar panels.

        We would also have to find accommodation for all the people, cattle, wildlife, sheep, birds, mice, frogs who no longer had anywhere to live. Ballarat, Horsham, Arratrat, lots would just have to be relocated.

        Are they completely mad? Solar might be getting ‘cheaper’ but it is utterly impossible to power a society with solar. Unless no one does anything much. Only a public servant would think of powering our country with solar.

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      Jeff

      There was an interesting segment on ABC Landline about huge solar farms being built at Queensland’s Darling Downs.
      Some of the locals are not happy.
      http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-19/farming-the-sun:-queenslands-solar-boom/10137858

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        PeterS

        If ALP+Greens had their way they would let all farmers commit suicide or leave and all of the land between the east and west coast of Australia be covered with either wind or solar farms. Then we have to import everything, food and water. The real worry is that is not an exaggeration.

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    pat

    all these pieces are worth reading in full, especially 30 Jul/RenewEconomy one, so won’t excerpt:

    1 May: ABC: Prime agricultural land loss or booming future energy? That’s the solar planning conundrum for Victoria
    Vic Country Hour By Warwick Long
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2018-05-01/solar-farm-boom-leading-the-bust-in-prime-agricultural-land-use/9713954

    27 Jul: RenewEconomy: Victoria’s biggest solar farm reaches financial close, to power steel works
    by Giles Parkinson
    https://reneweconomy.com.au/victorias-biggest-solar-farm-reaches-financial-close-to-power-steel-works-11109/

    ***30 Jul: RenewEconomy: Major solar, wind projects stumble in front of new grid hurdles
    by Giles Parkinson
    https://reneweconomy.com.au/major-solar-wind-projects-stumble-in-front-of-new-grid-hurdles-71104/

    20 Jul: PressReader: WangarattaChronicle: Steve Kelly: Solar Farm lag
    Developers call time on Glenrowan case and take matter to tribunal
    https://www.pressreader.com/australia/wangaratta-chronicle/20180720/281517931903005

    behind paywall:

    22 Aug: BorderMail: Lack of support for Glenrowan solar farm has Wangaratta councillor ‘annoyed’
    by Shana Morgan
    A decision to refuse support for a solar farm in Glenrowan has left councillors, residents and businesses split in opinion.
    https://www.bordermail.com.au/news/local-news/5601809/lack-of-support-for-solar-farm-has-councillor-annoyed/

    earlier:

    Controversial Glenrowan solar farm may be rejected by councillors
    The Border Mail-18 Aug. 2018
    CONTROVERSIAL PLANS: The 245 hectare site near Glenrowan where a solar farm with 420,000 photovoltaic panels, generating up to…

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  • #
    Richard Ilfeld

    American Politics:
    Predictions are hard, particularly when they are about the future.
    But I think the Left in America just screwed the pooch.
    They have been grasping at straws for while now, and have finally found a slender reed they think they can hang impeachment on.
    Instead of focusing on the next election, the zealots have been re-litigating the last one.
    Meanwhile about 200 house candidates and half the senate have been keeping their heads down, trying to run local races they can win if the republicans are complacent and their bases are energized.
    The sturm and drang of a presidential ‘sex scandal’ and impeachment call will likely nationalize the race.
    An overt attempt to throw the guy out of office will allow a reminder of the reason he got elected; the uninvestigated but
    unloved behaviour of te person he beat.
    Instead of a quiet by-election, we’ll see a rerun of the last one. The one the left lost.
    The supposedly tangled web of Trump that will likely dominate the news can be opposed by restatement of the similar case against
    Clinton. The fact that Bill Clinton was vigorously defended in a nominally similar case by the people who will be prosecuting Trump is the kind of bumper sticker idea the electorate can easily grasp, along with the wholly unequal treatment of the two campaigns. It is a bit of delicious irony that one of CLinton’s fixers is the lawyer for Trump’s fixers….the sharks schooling.

    The facts are not important.

    Many of the rarely voting who elected Trump were expected to ignore a local house race between tweedle dee and tweedle dum. The are less likely to ignore “They are trying to take down the President, and reverse all the economic gains, and open the borders to a bunch of low wage workers”.

    With apologies to Tom Wolfe, I am expecting a Bonfire of the Vanities now.

    Hounding a president from office for sex with and intern was a bridge to far for a majority of Americans.
    This is less, pretending to be more.

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      RicDre

      “Hounding a president from office for sex with and intern was a bridge to far for a majority of Americans.”

      With all due respect, that is not why Bill Clinton was impeached. The charges that were the basis of Bill Clinton’s impeachment were from a referral from Janet Reno to Ken Star for perjury and suborning perjury to a Grand Jury in his testimony about Monica Lewinsky. The articles of impeachment were for perjury and obstruction of justice related to that Grand Jury testimony. There was little doubt that he was guilty of both crimes, but an impeachment trial is a political procedure not a legal procedure and the democrats would not have voted to remove him from office no matter what he did.

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    pat

    more info re Camperdown. note the mention of ***Ramsar (the UN convention I posted about on a previous thread, which Turnbull used to justify his Water Act 2007 or whatever). just funny to see it mentioned here:

    22 Aug: TheStandard(Fairfax): $150m solar farm planned for Camperdown-district property Meningoort
    by Katrina Lovell
    A 220KV transmission line, which runs across the property, has the capacity to export electricity from the proposed development to the national electricity network…
    The group’s deputy chair Andrew Duynhoven said one of the main concerns was the “immense” size of the project, which he said was about seven kilometres long and 2.5 kilometres at its widest point – roughly the size of 1136 football fields.
    “The clincher is that it’s 605 hectares, over 1500 acres, just by sheer size it’s an immense problem,” Mr Duynhoven said.
    “The actual solar farm is the size of Camperdown, plus a quarter…
    He said the size of the project was almost the size of four currently planned for northern Victoria combined.
    “No one’s got the true information about what the ramifications are of something this size.”
    Mr Duynhoven, a dairy farmer whose property is less than one kilometre from the proposed solar farm, said when he received a letter about the development earlier this year he initially thought it was a bit of a joke.
    “We’re not begrudging anyone enhancing their property, but the implications on the rest of us are mind-blowing,” he said.
    Mr Duynhoven said that according to the permit application, the solar panels would be located on the worst part of the property but objectors were concerned it was taking up prime agricultural land.
    “Last time I looked, I don’t think dairy farms are on crap land,” he said
    “The UK company that did the study seems to think that once you get over seven kilometres, the glare will diminish to a moderate level so it’s not really a worrying concern to them,” he said.
    “I’d like to argue that point on a sunny day.”

    Mr Duynhoven, the former captain of the Bookaar CFA and currently a leading officer with the Camperdown group, said there were also concerns about the fire risks associated with the proposal.
    “So just off the St Patrick’s Day fire everyone’s a bit nervous,” he said.
    He said there were OHS concerns about possible toxic fumes if there was a fire and Bookaar, being the closest brigade, was not equipped to deal with it because it wasn’t a breathing apparatus brigade.
    “At this stage we’ve deemed that we cannot go in there. We are excluded from the zone because of that so therefore we have to wait for the fire to come out of that facility which is a big worry because if it starts at one end it could be a seven-kilometre front.”

    He said objectors were also concerned about the environmental impact on the nearby Bookaar wetlands, a ***Ramsar wetland with national and international significance.

    There were also concerns about the traffic movements and road damage, with as many as 182 trucks a day going to the site during initial construction, he said.
    He said devaluation of neighbouring properties was also an issue. “Who wants to live next door to a solar plant?”…
    Mr Duynhoven said the problem with solar, unlike wind turbines, was that it hadn’t been regulated enough.
    He said that there were concerns that governments, in their rush to reach renewable energy targets, were rushing “too hard, too fast and too big”.
    The group will hold a public information meeting at the Camperdown botanic gardens at 1pm on Sunday.
    https://www.standard.net.au/story/5598480/150m-solar-farm-planned-for-camperdown/

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    pat

    ***note Australia is helping to pick up the Chinese slack – cos it’s a “low-cost alternative” for us!

    22 Aug: PV Mag: Large-scale solar sees 20% drop in new projects in H1 2018
    According to Wiki-Solar, around 16 GW of new solar PV parks were brought online worldwide in the first half of this year. In the same period of 2017, newly installed utility-scale PV capacity totaled around 20 GW.
    by Emiliano Bellini
    Newly installed solar capacity from projects exceeding 4 MW in size has dropped from around 20 GW in the first six months of 2017, to approximately 16 GW in the same period of this year, according to preliminary figures released by U.K.-based Wiki-Solar.org.

    Overall, cumulative capacity for solar parks has reached about 160 GW, most of which is deployed in China (56.8 GW), the United States (31.0 GW), India (21.3 GW), the United Kingdom (6.7 GW) and Germany (5 GW).
    “2018 may be the first year this decade to fail to set a new record,” Wiki-Solar analysts said in their statement. “India is pressing ahead with competitive tendering for solar capacity at economical grid prices.

    Meanwhile other markets where solar is a ***low-cost alternative, such as Chile, ***Australia and Brazil are increasing their contribution,” said Wiki-Solar’s Philip Wolfe…

    China, which saw a 30% decline in the installation of new large-scale solar plants in the first six months of this year, has been mainly responsible for this year’s drop, Wolfe went on to say…
    https://www.pv-magazine.com/2018/08/22/large-scale-solar-sees-20-drop-in-new-projects-in-h1-2018/

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      Curious George

      Dear pat, you are such a prolific poster that I learned to skip your comments without looking at them.

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      • #

        Dear CG, I have learned to scan Pat’s posts to ascertain whether or not they contain one the frequent gems to be found there. Then I read it at a more leisurely rate, and, hopefully, I am better informed as a result. :)

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    TdeF

    Finally, a piece from Nikki Savva, possibly her last. Full of despair. Poor, poor Malcolm. Enemies, traitors, false friends everywhere trying to tear down an elected Prime Minister. The hypocrisy is beyond belief.

    The coalition is finished. Turnbull was their only hope. Malcolm was a success and now he is betrayed. Perhaps if he can last another two weeks? What is more interesting is that it is not about how bad Abbott is, but how bad the world is to not appreciate her husband’s boss and his success and his genius. So people are going to resign, sit on the cross benches, protest. The world will end.

    So politicians with unbreakable principles and real loyalty who refuse to act out of pure self interest? Must be talking about some other country. Or Tony Abbott.

    The real interest is whether Dutton will repeal the RET. I despair that politicians believe it is not the problem, that they can paper over the legalized destruction of fossil fuel power stations with more laws. Lipstick on a pig laws. The RET has to go. Climate Change is crap, to quote the Prime Minister before last.

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      Dennis

      Repealing the RET would again be subject to Senate cooperation.

      PM Abbott tried it but was blocked in the hostile Senate.

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      • #
        PeterS

        Correct. The necessary changes can’t and won’t be achieved regardless of who is the PM, LNP or ALP. There is really only one option. The new leader of the LNP whoever that may be has to come up with the right policies on energy, water, agriculture and immigration, and spell them out to the public with much details and reasons, including the issue with the Senate blocking such changes and how to fix it. Do this for a few months then call the election to let the people decide whether they agree or not. If they agree they will have to give both houses of parliament to the LNP who will then have free rein to implement the policies to the full. Otherwise, forget it and we might as well have Shorten as PM to quicken the crash and burn and get it over and done with.

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      glen Michel

      Poor Nikki, I was wondering how she would cope.Such devotion and loyalty.Almost Wagnerian – like Hagen spearing Siegfried in the back is it not?

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    Another Ian

    TdeF No papering over here!

    “Delingpole: Obama’s Climate Legacy Is Toast”

    “The Clean Power Plan – designed to be the centerpiece of his presidency-defining mission to combat climate change – has been watered down to the point of irrelevance by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).”

    More at

    https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/08/22/delingpole-obamas-climate-legacy-is-toast/

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    Another Ian

    “Delingpole: Trump – ‘What Happens When the Wind Doesn’t Blow?’”

    “Donald Trump has asked the question which the renewables industry would rather not answer: “What happens when the wind doesn’t blow?” ”

    More at

    https://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/08/22/delingpole-trump-what-happens-when-the-wind-doesnt-blow/

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      Another Ian

      Conclusions from that link

      “Only a scumbag of the first water would ever wish to profit from this vile industry. Only a complete ignoramus could be in favor of it.

      Hating wind turbines really is one of the key litmus tests for any intelligent, civilized person. Trump passes with flying colors. He really, really, really hates the wind industry. And as so often, he’s dead right.”

      (My bold)

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    Another Ian

    “Sierra Club: Democrats are Losing Interest in Climate Change”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/08/22/sierra-club-democrats-are-losing-interest-in-climate-change/

    But will this trickle down to their mates the ALP?

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    • #
      PeterS

      Eventually yes but it might take two election cycles if Shorten becomes our next PM all thanks to Turnbull. By that time we can call upon China to bail us out.

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    Another Ian

    More unintended consequences

    “A little tale of unintended consequences. A family friend’s dog became sick, couldn’t stand up, couldn’t walk, funny breathing, didn’t respond when called. So it was taken to the vet. Diagnosed as ingested MJ. Vet said that he was treating one or two cases a week. So veterinary bills will be part of the new costs of legalizing marijuana, who would have thought.”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2018/08/22/what-could-possibly-go-wrong-3/#comment-1139775

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    Phillthegeek

    Apparently its on this morning in Canberra. Libs serving up each others livers over a fine Chianti?? :)

    FFS, If you can run a leadership knifing, you can run the country.

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    • #
      el gordo

      How hard could it be?

      Phil the coming election is going to involve climate change in relation to energy, how do you feel about that?

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      • #
        Phillthegeek

        Phil the coming election is going to involve climate change in relation to energy, how do you feel about that?

        Warm and Fuzzy. :)

        eg, climate change is mainly of political importance to the alleged conservative side of politics, and some view the whole of ploitics through that prism. Silly stuff. :)

        Overall, its a significant issue but regardless of the hyperventilation on sites like this, it will be an underlying but not decisive issue.

        Lib/Nats will deservedly lose the coming election. Thats been obvious to anyone with more than 2 brain cellss for a while. Polling has, strangely, been set in stone for months. That Abbot / Turnbull Govts are in much the same functional position that Gillard was in. People have already made up their minds.

        Actually, they are in a worse position as even during the RGR wars when the ALP was doing #leadersh@t, AND they were a minority in the HoR AND Senate, they still managed to pass significant legislation by negotiating it through. Lib/Nats have proven they cant achive that even with a majority in the HoR. they are not being stopped from doing their job, they are simply incapable of it.

        But hey, i come here for the laffs. Its is a satirical version of protected space for one end of the “conservative” demoggraphica type site fter all isn’t it?? I man, our energizer bunny angry has to be a bot/construct as n0 actual human could be that dim??

        Anyway off to work. Seeyahs!

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          Thanks for jogging the memory, Phil.

          I’d almost forgotten to add that Turnbull, Frydenberg and Bishop must go.

          They must go because they are a green left disaster and they must go because an even bigger green left disaster awaits us in the form of Labor, now with double the cynicism. (Who can forget how Labor so successfully legislated and so significantly negotiated us into staggering debt and those herds of white elephants?)

          Seeyah!

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          el gordo

          ‘…it will be an underlying but not decisive issue.’

          Climate change will be front and centre, its the climate wars again, the science is not settled.

          ‘People have already made up their minds.’

          The Green Left has already made up its mind, but now the right is being reenergised under Dutton. A healthy democracy once again and a landslide victory for the Coalition.

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            philthegeek

            Lol! dutton seems to be a gonner before he even gets there. :) Smart money on ScoMo at the moment.

            Not that it will help them much come the election ( October??) as Sco Mo is from a different stripe of the right, more the nasty happy clapper brand rather than coalhugger.

            Interesting that we could be seeing the start of a rebalancing of our body politic towards a more centrist position.

            The Lib/Nats/Phon have been trying to use the extremes of the political spectrum to gain and hold onto power. All their governance issues and legislative failures have been driven by that, and they have not been able to keep their crap together in any meaningful, functional way.

            The bizarre happenings of the #Leadersh$t stuff happening now could pop this particular boil and lead to a much more functional, sustainable path in Australia. Pretty much shows that the Trump style, play to the extreme political minority groups is actually those groups being self immolating.

            Be interesting to see where this leads….and to hear the lamentation of those on the extremes of politics as they realise the are heading for irrelevance. :)

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              el gordo

              Morrison got us back into the black, thanks to the revamped mining boom, so he should remain Treasurer.

              ‘…rebalancing of our body politic towards a more centrist position.’

              No we have been there for years under Malcolm, we want our democracy back. Under the sway of Dutton the government could build a couple of new Hele coal fired power stations and give the flick to Malcolm’s Hydro 2.

              The green left is heading for oblivion, its inevitable because CO2 doesn’t cause global warming.

              Also I think its imperative we get a strong centre right government to stand up to the over weaning ambition of Beijing and their new capitalism.

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    Phillthegeek

    And the biggest LOL?? There is a decent chance that Dutton is ineligible to be in parliament under Section 44. :)

    Similar to what was found by the HC on Bob Day (who was booted from the Senate) but a lot more money involved. Obviously something that the ALP have had on file for some time, but that doesn’t invalidate it. HC seems to apply the “black letter” of the law in cases like this.

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      el gordo

      The green/left would be overjoyed if they stopped Dutton in his tracks, but that isn’t going to happen.

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        PeterS

        Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Both the LNP and the ALP have succeeded in stopping Abbott who happens to be a far better candidate on all accounts so how hard would it be for them to stop Dutton who is a dwarf compared to Abbott? The only thing Dutton has in his favour is his name is not Abbott. Turnbull I’m afraid is going to bring down this nation to its knees before he quits. Of course the LNP could wake up and elect Abbott or possibly Dutton to save the party from oblivion. Time will tell.

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        Bobl

        If he stops Dutton then we’d get Abbott or another conservative. I say roll it on, I’m not satisfied with Dutton, I want the real deal.

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        • #
          PeterS

          Yes I thought that would be a more suitable outcome. Dutton loses again today and by the time they all come back in two or so weeks Abbott or someone else with a much stronger conviction on energy policy comes to the front and successfully challenges Turnbull. We all know Turnbull must go if the LNP is to avoid a catastrophic loss at the next election.

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            el gordo

            Abbott is heroic, patiently waiting to bring on a counter coup, but we would be better to put Dutton up front and Tony in Foreign Affairs. He has the knowledge and courage to go out into the world and smash AGW mass delusion, no other Australian politician has the bottle to do this.

            We have to explain why we are pulling out of Paris, getting rid of the RET and building new Hele.

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            • #
              PeterS

              Yes I think Dutton and Abbott could work together well provided Dutton doesn’t wimp out on the renewables nonsense. Of course things are changing as we speak so it’s not all over yet. Turnbull is of course doing everything he can to stop people like Dutton and Abbott from taking over the party. If he succeeds I hope enough of them resign and kill off the LNP to make room for a new party.

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              • #
                el gordo

                ‘…kill off the LNP to make room for a new party.’

                Okay if the Coalition implodes then the Nationals would become a rump and change their name to Country Party.

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      TdeF

      That’s unlikely.

      This has been public knowledge for years. It is very different to the Day case where public money went directly to the Senator’s company.

      The Dutton Child Care centers do NOT receive Commonwealth payments. These go directly to the parents.

      Yes you could argue that the money is an indirect payment, but what money isn’t? The parents would have to pay the bills regardless of how much subsidy they receive. It might affect their choices. It might increase prices. Fundamantally though every decision a minister make can be traced logically back to impact income he has outside parliament.

      At the same time Dutton has also been very careful to excuse himself from decisions which might directly impact payments in which he has an interest. He will be cleared.

      However this reflects very badly on Turnbull who was obviously aware of the potential for illegal membership of the parliament and said nothing to disrupt his one seat parliament until he benefited personally from the prosection of a minister. On both counts, it is Turnbull who acted in his own personal interest in what he now alleges was a potential crime.

      That sort of thing gives lawyer like Turnbull a bad name. For ethics I would back a policeman against a lawyer every time.

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        Dennis

        Tony Abbott said on Sydney Radio 2GB that this is not an issue and the PM was aware that it is not months ago.

        Peter Dutton has now confirmed it is not an issue and that the Commonwealth payments in any case go to the parents of children at child minding centres, not the owners.

        Another Malcolm Terminal smokescreen and smear.

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  • #

    Okay, it comes down to this.

    Someone is burning Australian coal. Someone will burn Australian coal.

    At the moment, the most wasteful consumer of Australian coal is Australia. We use much less of it than importers of same, but we burn it less efficiently. Asians cannot afford to waste our coal. Neither can we, but we do anyway, because we are “green”. Is this tripping anyone’s absurdity meter?

    We will go on burning Australian coal but thanks to a demented cult called “sustainability” we will go on wasting our coal through deliberate neglect and programmed inefficiency. Surely the meter is tripped now.

    Nothing matters more than correcting this situation. Dutton has taken a gigantic false step by suggesting that cost shifting and tax fiddling is a solution. Like the world needs more of that.

    What we have is a conservation problem. Being green means we waste money, resources, energy and coal itself to no purpose. The only fit leader for the nation is the leader who attacks this absurdity, not as a globalist or Marxist, or Frankfurter or Austrian or neo-liberal, but as a conservationist.

    As it’s been pointed out, China could reduce its consumption of Australian coal by the entire amount that Australia consumes domestically and it would represent almost nothing in terms of China’s total consumption of coal. This is not because China is naughty but because China makes all your stuff.

    We need to make more stuff, the obvious stuff people can make when they have enormous amounts of minerals and enormous amounts of the fuels required to transform those minerals. And we need to use electricity to maintain and even heighten our living standards because there’s not much point in being Australian otherwise. Those who think these sentiments are shallow and consumerist can move to the Congo, which is a perfect example of a phenomenally resource-rich nation which is phenomenally poor.

    Oh…and Turnbull, Frydenberg and Bishop must go. I always like to add that.

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      PeterS

      I agree but I would be happy to see Dutton displace Turnbull even though he’s not at this stage doing very well on the energy front. The main issue is Turnbull and his cohorts must go. Provided Dutton brings on Abbott to the front bench Dutton should quickly get up to speed with Abbott nest to him and then LNP’s chances of winning the next election sky-rocket.

      50

      • #
        el gordo

        If Cory comes back to the fold he will bring a lot of supporters and in doing so deserves Jobs and Innovation.

        10

        • #
          PeterS

          He will not come back to a sinking ship. First the ship has to be salvaged and rebuilt before he even thinks about coming back.

          20

          • #
            el gordo

            Alright, then he may pick up some Nats and Libs planning to jump ship and sit on the cross bench if Dutton becomes PM.

            10

    • #
      TdeF

      I cannot agree that we are wasteful with our coal.

      The gain of about 6% comes entirely from higher temperatures in the boiler. From the ideal Carnot engine every engine has waste energy and Thermodynamics tells us that work out, efficiency is determined entirely by temperature.

      So we had the best technology available until very recently and with higher temperature boiler tehcnology now available. We can upgrade our power stations at a reasonable cost. New stations would use the new technology. The Chinese are upgrading or closing presumably depending on age and cost.

      If someone can work out a way to burn at even higher temperatures, we can keep increasing efficiency but it is a case of diminishing returns.

      We have not been remiss. Our power stations are some of the most efficient and cleanest in the world. Unlike solar, they do not cover tens of square kilometers. The open cut mines do, but these can be covered in time.

      Clean in the context of power means particulate matter, nitrous oxide, sulphur dioxide. Carbon dioxide is not dirty. It is clean and invisible and the acid it forms, carbonic acid is a very weak acid and naturally in every system anyway, unlike sulphuric or nitric.

      Our thermal coal is clean and our black coal much better for coking coal unlike Indonesia’s, which is why we are the world’s biggest coal exporter.

      Coal might be black, but carbon dioxide, the gas from which all the trees and grass and flowers and food are made, is not dirty.

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      • #

        Not blaming the stations or operators, and certainly not accusing the quality of our coal.

        But this nation deserves the newest. Like Japan. All USC, superalloys, more compact etc. Can’t do it all at once, but upgrades and new stations are the go. You say it yourself. If someone calls us “international pariahs” or “gold-platers” it means we’re getting close to sanity.

        20

      • #
        Dennis

        Latest Japanese technology, baked coal?

        20

  • #
    David Maddison

    Does anyone know where in Victoriastan I can buy some coal? I don’t want 10,000 tonnes, just a few kg. I want to burn some just for fun and to help our environment which is dangerously low in CO2 compared to previous times when it was much higher.

    60

  • #
    manalive

    Journalist called John Howard “an unflushable turd”, even though he was repeatedly re-elected, that description is more aptly applied to Turnbull.

    30

    • #
      Another Ian

      The day I heard of Abbott’s knifing I had one of those mental rust particles saying that there was something I should remember that was relevant. Eventually it surfaced.

      There is a chapter in Kahlil Gibran’s “Thoughts and Meditations” called “The Silver Plated Turd”.

      10

    • #
      RicDre

      “an unflushable turd”

      For some reason, when I read this description I immediately though of Hillary Clinton.

      00

  • #
    manalive

    Journalist Mungo MacCallum called John Howard “an unflushable turd”, even though he was repeatedly re-elected, that description is more aptly applied to Turnbull.

    30

    • #
      Dennis

      Yes, and contrary to the impression some people have Howard did not promise Costello that he would stand aside for him. Howard told Costello that he would think about it when Costello approached him about a leadership change.

      And think about it he did, including discussing it with at least one other Liberal MP.

      After that he asked Liberal MPs during a party meeting if they wanted a change in leadership and the majority indicated No. And Costello, no doubt unhappy, accepted the majority decision.

      20

    • #
      TdeF

      Turnbull could well be flushed today.

      30

  • #
    PeterS

    Mathias Cormann, Michaelia Cash, and Mitch Fifield have abandoned Turnbull. Looks like today is the day. Cross fingers.

    50

  • #
    Jeff

    I’ll go with Mathias Cormann.
    Actually he’d make a good leader IMO.

    30

    • #
      PeterS

      He said he believes Dutton is the best man to take the Coalition to the election.

      30

      • #
        Jeff

        They seem to be good friends politically.
        Turnbull’s move to call the meeting on Tuesday backfired and blew up in his face.

        20

        • #
          TdeF

          Now he will stall and hope to remain Prime Minister for another two weeks, wrecking the party further. Then, if true to form, he will call a suicidal snap election he intends to lose to Labor and the Greens. Anything to deny Abbott. It’s never been about Australia. It’s always been about spoiled child Malcolm.

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          • #
            TdeF

            Then the only difference with Labor’s PM Gillard will be Turnbull’s private schooling and vast inheritance. They have a common nemesis in conservative Tony Abbott.

            50

          • #
            Hanrahan

            He delayed his demise by a day thus beating Gough in period served.

            Just shows how much damage a bad PM can do in a short time. It was Gough who boosted public service salaries “so that private industry wages must follow”. Our PS still has absurd wages and conditions. Thanks for nothing.

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    TdeF

    ‘Liberal MP Trent Zimmerman has accused Tony Abbott of being motivated by “bitterness and a desire for revenge” to bring down Malcolm Turnbull’. He says Australians do not like that sort of thing.

    He omits that Turnbull was motivated by his previous loss of the party leadership and conspired even as Communications Minister with his former deputy and now Foreign Minister Bishop to bring down Abbott. A man who was elected Prime Minister in a landslide, a result allegedly popular Turnbull could not match when he took Abbott’s job arguing that he was the better man for the job.

    The total hypocrisy in the Turnbull camp is extraordinary. You would think Malcolm was the surprised and totally innocent victim of a backroom conspiracy and that backbencher Abbott owed him a great debt and total loyalty? Huh?

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  • #

    Hoping Hurricane Lane eases off.

    32

  • #
    TdeF

    Mathias Corman. Gone. Michaela Cash. Gone. Mitch Fifield Gone.
    Malcolm is losing ministers. He has no cabinet.

    50

    • #
      TdeF

      What are the odds Malcolm instead of pledging support to Prime Minister Dutton, resigns and forces a by election, bringing down the government? Petulance.

      We all wish Graham Richardson had given Maclom the job he desperately wanted, Labor Senator. Turnbull has always been in the wrong party.

      100

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Meanwhile in la la land. we note a new section called “extreme weather”…well they got half of it right…it weather…but its not extreme

    https://www.smh.com.au/environment/weather/potentially-devastating-hurricane-lane-bears-down-on-hawaii-20180822-p4zz2i.html

    “One of the most powerful hurricanes recorded in the north Pacific is forecast to make a direct hit on the US island state of Hawaii, American weather services say.

    Hurricane Lane briefly strengthened into a category-5 storm on Tuesday, local time, with winds exceeding 250 km/h, before weakening slightly. It was located about 480 kilometres south-east of Hawaii’s Big Island. Alerts cover the Big Island, Maui and other major islands.”

    Wasnt Katrina that made landfall in New Orleans, a Cat 5?

    30

    • #
      Hanrahan

      Wouldn’t it be a sight to see torrential rain falling onto molten lava?

      30

    • #
      Annie

      I just saw a section heading in The Age and commented on it to my husband…same thing ‘Extreme Weather’. Oh dear!!! Talk about attempted brain-washing.

      31

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Yes…heavy rain is nor “torrential”, hot days are “heatwave”, people who think for themselves are now called “deniers”…..

        20

  • #
    PeterS

    Turnbull is hiding. Either he’s discussing his options about calling a snap election or he’s preparing his exit speech.

    30

  • #
    TdeF

    Bishop has gone in. Deputy to Nelson, Turnbull, Abbott and Turnbull. She always voted for Turnbull. This is the end.

    If I wanted one thing from the new PM, it is not new laws, but the removal of the LGCs and STCs, the world’s biggest carbon certificates designed to destroy coal, gas, oil, diesel and petrol generated electricity. Leaving us with only random wind and lunchtime solar. Remove these instruments of destruction in one move.

    Repeal the Renewable Energy(Electricity) 2000 Act. The whole mess would be over tomorrow.
    Electricity prices would plumment immediately.

    It is frustrating that Dutton wants to remove the GST on the LGCs and STCS and the 100% markup on these ripoffs, instead of removing the ripoffs. Morrison says the governments cannot live without the 10% GST on the ripoff. What? Now State governments are dependent on the world’s highest electricity prices? Unbelievable.

    Stop the RET. End the insanity. Stop all electricity related subsidies, both State and Federal. We already have clean energy. Clean out the swamp.
    Don’t just pass more laws and give more exemptions!

    90

    • #
      PeterS

      Resignations are flooding in. LNP is imploding.

      30

      • #
        TdeF

        Calamity Bishop. Also history. She was behind Nelson, Turnbull, Abbott and now Turnbull and in every contest when they fell, but admits voting only for Turnbull.
        Didn’t get that job as Governor General though. A job too far. She will not be missed.
        A lot of these will drop out too, retire on indexed huge pensions. Few will want to sit as back benchers or even shadow ministers. No one believes Dutton can win.

        Remove the RET and he would romp home. Man made CO2 is not in the air. What extra CO2 is there is wonderful news for humanity. Taxing it is insane.

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      • #
        Hanrahan

        Labor survived their leadership chaos, why do you think the libs can’t?

        30

        • #
          PeterS

          I’ll rephrase it. The Turnbull LNP is imploding. Let’s hope the new leader is the right one.

          40

        • #
          PeterS

          If they don’t get the right leader who can pull the LNP together again and promote and explain the right policies to the people, the LNP itself will implode and Shorten becomes PM, perhaps even much sooner than we expected.

          40

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            “in politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way”
            - Franklin D Roosevelt.

            Or put another way – if the Black Hand decrees a change to Shortonideas as the new PM, enough Libs of the right factions will resign to make sure the election is won or lost to make sure the desired outcome occurs.

            Funnily enough, a work colleague mentioned that the left-leaning Liberals are in reality acting like a Labor incursion into Lib ranks.

            40

  • #
    pat

    22 Aug: Maritime-Executive: New Offshore Wind Hammer Tested
    The Carbon Trust and Fistuca, in conjunction with E.ON, EDPR, EnBW, Equinor, Ørsted, Shell, Sif, SSE, Van Oord and Vattenfall, have tested a new installation technique designed to reduce ocean noise.
    The Fistuca Blue 25M hammer was tested as part of the Offshore Wind Accelerator Blue Pilot project using Van Oord’s offshore heavy lift installation vessel, Svanen, off the coast of the Netherlands.

    The new hammer uses a large water tank to provide a more energetic, but quieter blow for offshore installation. It is designed to reduce underwater noise levels by up to 20 dB (SEL), and is predicted to reduce the fatigue damage during installation on the pile by up to 90 percent. This could not only remove the need for underwater noise mitigation, but also enable secondary steel to be pre-welded to the monopile before installation, potentially unlocking ‘transition piece free’ designs.

    Furthermore, by reducing the amount of time and number of operations carried out offshore, the piling method significantly lowers installation cost…
    The OWA Blue Pilot project is funded with subsidies from the Topsector Energie program by the Dutch Ministry of Economics…
    https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/new-offshore-wind-hammer-tested#gs.pxfOUOI

    21 Aug: BusinessGreen: Good news for dolphins? New project to cut noise pollution from offshore turbine installation
    by Madeleine Cuff and James Murray
    The offshore wind inudtsry could soon have some good news for dolphins and other animals affected by the installation of offshore wind turbine foundations…

    22 Aug: Energy Voice: Hush hush: Quiet wind farm foundation ‘hammer’ tested
    by Mark Lammey
    Fistuca managing director Jasper Winkes: “We are very grateful for the endorsement of our investor Huisman Equipment, the Dutch Government and all the Blue Pilot Project partners that made this possible.”

    MSM is quiet except for the Beeb, which doesn’t provide much detail at all, but does mention another funder:

    21 Aug: BBC: New quieter hammer for offshore wind farms tested
    SSE is one of the partners in the project to develop the Blue Hammer..
    The Carbon Trust and offshore foundations company, Fistuca, have been working with SSE and others on developing the hammer as part of the Offshore Wind Accelerator (OWA) Blue Pilot project.
    The OWA is a flagship Carbon Trust research and development programme. It involves offshore wind farm developers and is part funded by the Scottish government…

    20

  • #
    PeterS

    Since there has been so many resignations today the Parliament has been dissolved until the leadership issue is resolved and the various vacant ministry positions are re-appointed.

    30

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      13 Ministers (so far). Julie Bishop seen smiling – an ominous sign for MT.

      Turnbull will have to resign very soon. Parliament adjourned to Sept. 10. just over 2 weeks to sort out the new cabinet.

      50

  • #
    Serp

    And I used to think the Beloved Windbag was harmless; it looks like he wants to take the nation down with him.

    40

  • #
    pat

    I have now read about 4 pieces this week about our political leaders brought down due to “climate” issues. each one has left out Tony Abbott, or downplayed his removal by Turnbull in Sept 2015, just before COP21 in Paris, despite the prophetic words of Christopher Monckton:

    2015: Youtube: 3mins33secs: Lord Monckton: Behind the left’s push to remove Tony Abbott
    Could Aussie Prime Minister Tony Abbott be truly the last man standing between the radical left and their plan to have every country in agreement to bring about a new global ruling body? The end-game behind “climate change” (previously “global warming”) is revealed
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG0WcjGHkEw

    Annabel The Great goes straight from Gillard to Turnbull and includes some ***FakeNews, including!

    23 Aug: ABC: Australia’s recent climate change policy: A brief history of seven killings
    By Annabel Crabb Posted about 7 hours ago
    ***At the Paris summit of 2015, the Abbott government commits Australia to reducing emissions by at least 26 per cent from 2005 levels by 2030…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-23/climate-change-policy-a-brief-history-of-seven-killings/10152616

    Wikipedia: On 14 September 2015, Malcolm Turnbull, the Minister for Communications, resigned and stated his intention to challenge the Liberal Party leadership in a leadership spill. A party-room meeting held that evening saw Abbott defeated by Turnbull on a 54–44 vote…

    Wikipedia: The 2015 United Nations Climate Change Conference, COP 21 or CMP 11 was held in Paris, France, from 30 November to 12 December 2015.

    20 Aug: The Conversation: The too hard basket: a short history of Australia’s aborted climate policies
    by Marc Hudson, PhD Candidate, Sustainable Consumption Institute, University of Manchester
    Abbott’s demise as prime minister was not as directly tied to climate policy as Howard’s, Rudd’s or Gillard’s. Far more instrumental were gaffes such as giving the Duke of Edinburgh a knighthood…

    10

  • #
    Jeff

    MT press conference at 1pm.

    20

  • #
    TdeF

    The only question is who will be deputy? People are even suggesting Julie Bishop. Ha! The Lizzie Borden of Canberra.

    It will be such pleasure to be rid of Bishop and Frydenberg and Pyne. We don’t need those submarines, unless they were nuclear.

    60

    • #
      Hanrahan

      Lizzie Borden had an axe
      She gave her mother 40 whacks
      When she saw what she had done
      She gave her father 41

      50

  • #
    PeterS

    Turnbull says he won’t stand as a candidate in the ballot if called tomorrow.

    20

    • #
      PeterS

      Turnbull is one big fat arrogant pig. He said the polls were only mildly against him and that their standing was good. He refuses to accept the likelihood that they would lose the next election by a landslide.

      40

  • #
    Jeff

    Turnbull reckons people were bullied and intimidated to vote against him and its a type of “madness”

    20

    • #
      PeterS

      Proof that he’s a narcissist.

      80

      • #
        Jeff

        He calls it an “insurgency”
        The dictionary definition is “the violent struggle of a group of people who refuse to accept their government’s power”

        30

      • #
        Jeff

        Turnbull spent a lot of time saying Dutton may be disqualified.
        He seems to want to hang on til the end.
        Then he could resign and force a by election in his seat, if he can’t force an early general election.

        30

        • #
          Dennis

          The former Prime Minister says the focus on Peter Dutton’s childcare centres is a “dirty tricks” campaign by either Labor or Malcolm Turnbull.

          The solicitor general is looking at whether Mr Dutton has breached Section 44 of the Constitution.

          Mr Dutton’s family trust owns two childcare centres, which are the beneficiaries of taxpayer funds.

          If he’s found to be in breach, he may be ineligible to sit in parliament.

          The Member for Warringah tells Ben Fordham the matter was resolved earlier this year, and it’s “strange” the Prime Minister didn’t shut down the speculation today.

          “Given that there is QC’s advice that he is absolutely in the clear, I just think it was just very strange that today the Prime Minister didn’t simply say that this matter has been considered.

          “There’s QC advice that Peter Dutton’s position is absolutely secure.

          “I think a lot of people have wondered… over the last couple of days, they’ve thought, ‘more dirty tricks’.

          “Whether these are dirty tricks from a Labor Party which is desperate not to have Peter Dutton as its opponent, or whether this is just one last throw from a despairing incumbent, I just don’t know.”
          Radio 2GB

          40

          • #
            Dennis

            Dutton and others have pointed out that the Commonwealth money goes to the parents of childcare centre children, not the owner operators.

            50

    • #
      PeterS

      He said the party is being bullied into moving towards the right. He now has admitted he always wanted to move the party towards the left. Not real news given he wanted to join the ALP first.

      100

    • #
      RicDre

      “Turnbull reckons people were bullied and intimidated to vote against him and its a type of ‘madness’”

      Wasn’t that excuse #1 on Hillary Clinton’s continuously scrolling list of reasons for why she lost to Donald Trump? Mr. Turnbull may be guilty of a copyright violation.

      00

  • #
    Dennis

    Could the PM call an election to stop a leadership challenge?

    Constitutions are written to deal with normal circumstances. They are not written to deal with prime ministers or governors-general WHO GO MAD.

    A federal election is a major logistical exercise for the Australian Electoral Commission, but also for political parties and candidates.

    The idea that Malcolm Turnbull would call an election without talking to the Liberal Party’s organisational wing is far-fetched. Calling an election without telling his own party would remove the Government’s most important advantage going into an election — knowledge of timing.

    Talking to the party organisation about calling an election would tip off the Prime Minister’s party opponents that an election was about to be called.

    On Tuesday this week the Prime Minister defeated a vote of no confidence in the House of Representatives, which confirms his role as chief adviser to the Governor-General.

    But the office of the Governor-General monitors the media. Were the Prime Minister to call an election to avoid being deposed by his party, the Governor-General would be bound to follow that advice, but would be aware of what was occurring. The early election request might be delayed by obfuscation and prevarication from Yarralumla.
    Anthony Green
    ABC

    NOTE: WHO GO MAD.

    30

    • #
      TdeF

      I don’t think with the resignation of most of his ministers, the Governor General would accept that Turnbull is leading a government of more than half the party. His is no longer leader in fact, unless he can prove it. So he lacks the authority to call an election. The party have to elect a new leader.
      The Governor General appoints Ministers. They have left. The best Malcolm could do to kick out the stumps is resign from his seat. Julie Bishop has said she would do it too. More besides. All hollow threats. It affects their superannuation.

      60

      • #
        TdeF

        A political party won the election, not an individual. They have to nominate a leader, a Prime Minister. He has to be appointed by the Governor General, along with his ministers. The Governor General would be happy to appoint a new Prime Minister who is acceptable to the party. Malcolm is history. He cannot call a general election now.

        50

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      The whole Turnbull thing is like watching a losing kid kick over the snakes and ladders game board to stop your opponent winning…..the mass resignation of ministers etc is just a tactical move to make sure political power is passed to the right person at the next “election”…..

      If the numbers & electoral conditions favour a Labor win, you have your answer as to who is next PM….

      20

  • #
    Dennis

    The Prime Minister will hold a party room meeting at 12pm tomorrow and won’t contest the leadership if a spill motion is carried.

    “When the party room meeting is called I will invite a spill motion to be moved,” Mr Turnbull says.

    “If the motion is carried I will treat that as a vote of no confidence and I will not stand as a candidate in the ballot,” he says.

    Mr Turnbull has confirmed he will resign from parliament if he’s ousted as leader.

    His comments come after Peter Dutton declared he would challenge the PM for the Liberal leadership a second time.

    Three senior ministers – Mathias Cormann, Mitch Fifield and Michaelia Cash – have since withdrawn their support for the Prime Minister and resigned from their positions.

    “We had further meetings with the Prime Minister this morning, all three of us, to confirm we believe there should be a party room meeting to resolve the issue of the leadership,” Mr Cormann says.

    All three say they supported Mr Turnbull in Tuesday’s ballot, but can’t any longer.

    Several other senior ministers followed the exodus, with Greg Hunt, Michael Keenan and Angus Taylor all tendering their resignations.

    It’s speculated Mr Turnbull will allow Scott Morrison to run for the leadership.
    2GB

    20

    • #
      Graeme#4

      He requested Dutton to provide numbers and names. Surely that’s crazy – Dutton doesn’t have to do that. Has he completely lost the plot?

      60

      • #
        Dennis

        I understand that all that is required is two or more MPs ask for a party meeting to be held which three did yesterday evening, to be scheduled for this morning.

        As PM Abbott was approached in 2015.

        20

        • #
          Graeme#4

          Yes, but it seems that Empty has refused to do this today and instead wants to call a meeting tomorrow, I presume to allow Morrison to try to obtain some backers. I see that Ben Morton, my local member, supports Morrison. I’ll remember that come next election…

          50

    • #
      Bushkid

      Oh, so Turnbull will (magnanimously, mind you) allow Morrison to run for PM?

      It’s not up to Turnbull to say who can or can’t run. They all have the right to challenge. He needs to remember that.

      As for him saying he’ll resign from parliament if he’s rolled, that’s just a childish, gutless spoiled-child response to not being allowed to have his way. He has never understood that he’s OUR servant, the servant of the people, and is supposed to be serving in our best interests, not those of his own ego or the interests of the UN.

      70

  • #
    Ross

    If the new PM did a Trump and said “we are out of Paris” —would that be a big enough winner in Aussie?
    I’m assuming it would be much easier than TdeF’s wish of removing the RET, which probably would take a bit of time.

    40

    • #
      TdeF

      No, it would be one motion. The implications on the whole rotten structure of ‘Clean Energy’, Certificates, money for nothing would be profound. Even Morrison says the States are dependent on their 10% of the world’s highest energy prices? So we should leave them in place perhaps?

      Besides, if the RET was found to be illegal by the High Court, it would all vanish in a day anyway.

      Governments can only tax and fine, charge for services.

      They cannot order someone to give your money to a friend of theirs, windmill and solar people.

      Imagine if the banks were ordered by the government to take your money out of your account and give it to friends of the Greens? For nothing. This is against the most basic ban on ordering subjects to pay King John’s friends. Not for the business of defending the kingdom. Not for the common good.
      It is wrong. This was the argument behind Magna Carta. Royal ripoffs. Clean Energy means clean ripoff. Coal is clean and free and ours. It’s all illegal anyway.

      110

      • #
        TdeF

        Roughly $1Million per year, per windmill is being added to our bills. The money is given away. Then as much again in markups by AGL and friends. $2Million per year per windmill in gifts. Get angry. It’s why AGL wants to get out of coal.

        130

        • #
          TdeF

          Morrison thinks the extra $1Million markup is gouging. What about the first million. It’s all done on your electricity bill and hidden from you. Get angry.

          Why else would Hazelwood close? It’s not as if they are not half the price of wind power. People are obliged to buy wind power even at twice the price. Then the LGCs and STCs. It never ends.

          110

        • #
          Graeme#4

          The figure mentioned here previously for all green subsidies was $3b a year.

          20

          • #
            TdeF

            No, front page on the Australian, that is just the money which leave the country. As much again stays here to make local wind and solar busiensses rich and electricity electricity suppliers like AGL who double the cost of power and certificates for nothing.

            50

            • #
              TdeF

              Also all the other costs, called subsidies. Free distribution lines to windmills. Rented diesel generators to cover the fact that windmills don’t work (Tasmania, Australia). A billion in payments to hide the fact that Whyalla, Port Pirie and Portland smelters cannot afford to operate. Outrageous payments for peak gas power because there is not enough coal power and gas stations like Pelican Point are secretly paid. Interconnectors costing billions in public money. Undersea cables to Tasmania. Compensation to the 30,000 poor people who cannot heat their homes in winter. The many who fail to pay their electricity bills and need help, loading social services. The cost of mayhem in Adelaide when all the lights go out for a week. The lost frozen goods in homes and supermarkets, all the food in a state in the bin. Stress and suffering for people facing surgery and even the lost foetuses in Adelaide, beyond price. It’s all subsidies and suffering. All for nothing, according to Turnbull’s Chief Scientist and the ACCC.

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  • #
    TdeF

    “I’ve always thought former prime ministers were best out of parliament.” Not only a swipe at the man whose job he stole, but foreshadowing his intention to destroy ‘his’ government by resigning. Something Abbott would not do. Nor vote against his own party, as Turnbull has done.

    Petulance, arrogance, rich spoilt only child. Taking his bat and ball and going home, but not before he has a chance to ruin Dutton’s day too. Tomorrow after he gets advice on his rival.

    60

  • #
    • #
      TdeF

      Yes, but thanks for what? All the good work was Abbott. Turnbull did nothing.

      Turnbull couldn’t even handle the good economic conditions from the increased taxation with higher employment, all Abbott’s work. He made a dog’s breakfast of the last few detainees because he didn’t want to offend his Green friends and shirtfronted Trump to solve his problem. Turnbull also gave you $60billion on very unsecret nuclear submarines modified to run on useless diesel and just to prop up his useless Black Hand minister Christopher Pyne. More wasted borrowed billions on a white elephant cable NBN in the age of 5G and now $12Billion to pump water uphill instead of to the farmers who need it.

      No thanks. Just go.

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        PeterS

        Good summary of Turnbull’s past lacklustre performance. The fact that he lasted so long is testament of his ability to con people, which he probably learned while at Goldman Sachs. His next trick will be to blame the loss of the election, if that happens, on the person who will end up being the next LNP PM, but if they win it he will say it was due to his “wonderful” work over the past few years and proclaim he should have remained PM to see it through. His ego, arrogance and narcissism know no bounds.

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        TdeF

        I was also very annoyed that Turnbull was shocked at the severity of the drought. I mean, a drought does not happen in a day. Oops, Climate Change did this. Caught napping.
        Droughts by their nature take a long time to happen and Turnbull just discovered this one and gave them some cash. A man of the people, I guess you do not see the drought paddling in front of your house on Point Piper.

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      • #

        well, it was thanks alot for some good posts at this site, but I think Australia has a right to look at these articles I’ve been trying to post here (on unthreaded) on East Turkestan/Xinjiang,!!! They are valuable indeed–the last one is http://balance10.blogspot.com/2018/08/historicgeographic-background-of.html but there are others as good.

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      • #
        Hanrahan

        Yes, but thanks for what? All the good work was Abbott. Turnbull did nothing.

        Abbott axed the mining and carbon taxes and stopped the boats. I was amazed how quickly he did that and he didn’t just slow them he stopped them. I don’t know whose idea the life boats was but they worked a treat.

        What did Turnbull do that you remember? Shhh I’m thinking. I remember a guy called Jobson Growth but he went MIA.

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  • #
    Serp

    ABC news has “He [the PM] says that meeting will happen at midday on Friday if he receives the letter.”

    What so nothing will happen if he ducks the process server, is that the game?

    40

    • #
      Dennis

      “Gone mad”.

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    • #
      TdeF

      Who knows? He wants to go home and sulk. Deja Vu. Abbott is behind this, somehow. This is a man who could not accept less than overwhelming victory at the election and thanked no one.

      However if he runs away and we have no ministers and government is run by ministers, there is a problem. The Governor General must demand an answer from the Coalition. They need to nominate a leader but they need Malcolm as Prime Minister to agree to a Party meeting. If not, Malcolm would be stripped of his Prime Minister title, dismissed by the Governor General for being AWOL.

      This could be bigger than “The Dismissal”. Different plot. Same result.

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    philthegeek

    What so nothing will happen if he ducks the process server, is that the game?

    There are probably some in the Libs that see advantage in no decision until Parliament goes into recess and they can try and sort things quitely (LOL!) outside of the Canberra bubble. Silly, but silly seems to be where the Libs are at the moment.

    They should, if they had anyones interests but their own in play, sort things today and at least try and give the appearance of moving on. Regardless, any fix they put in place aint gunna save them. I reckon Shorten could get caught in a full on whole shaved goat / mango butter thing and would still win an election this year. :)

    20

    • #
      Dennis

      I do not agree with you.

      It has been very clear for some time that voters in general are fed up with both sides. Former PM Howard remarked last year that the traditional support for the two sides of 80% has dropped to 60% including swinging from side to side voters. Many have not forgotten the Rudd to Gillard to Rudd six years and results. And opinion polling has been indicating that more voters prefer Turnbull to Shorten. They prefer Labor to LNP but under the prevailing circumstances how many park their vote with Labor because they are LNP voters who are angry with Turnbull Party?

      In my opinion, think hung parliament of 2010, the next election could be worse for both sides. And one or the other forced into alliances to form a minority government.

      Considering that Labor policies mirror Turnbull Party policies and in some areas go further, such as RET, dump border protection, increase immigration/refugee intake etc., more voters would be wary of voting for Labor.

      On the other hand, a refreshed new LNP with Liberal-National centre to centre-right policies including: Dump RET & Paris Treaty, limit immigration to match job vacancies, halt refugee intake indefinitely until those who are here are all settled and working, tackling the debt and deficit problems as was started in the Hockey Budget 2014/15, and more would attract voters back to the LNP.

      Australians are conservative by nature in the majority, Union Labor is too far left including Shorten and Plibersek, Leader & Deputy.

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      • #
        philthegeek

        And one or the other forced into alliances to form a minority government.

        Which we have proven history to show that it is not a problem for the ALP. They simply negotiate legislation through both houses given whatever make up the australian people decide to present them with. As any Govt has a responsibility to the people to do. Lib?Nats have shown that they are incapable of respecting the decision of the electorate and have gone all sulky and dysfunctional.

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    • #
      PeterS

      What we need is the LNP to conduct a survey to see which direction the people want it to go – stay on the left or move back to the right. That would be useful in deciding who is best to lead the LNP to the next election. Otherwise if they pick the one the people do not favour no matter which direction it’s goodbye to the LNP for at least two election cycles and hello to Shorten. :-(

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  • #
    TdeF

    His speech? Handgrenades only.

    Stall until he can tarnish Dutton, hopefully wipe him out tomorrow.
    If not, immediately resign and put any government out of a majority until a byelection.
    Potentially put a Dutton government straight into a guaranteed loss at a National election.

    Any member of Turnbull’s one seat government could have wrecked like this, at any time. Malcolm is the only one who wants to wreck the joint. Shame that it took his colleagues so long to realise it.

    There’s gracious. Then there’s Malcolm.

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    • #
      PeterS

      The LNP is a split party. Yet voters who are left leaning will vote for ALP candidates instead of those on the left side in the LNP. Those who are conservative/centre-right will not necessarily vote for LNP, some might even vote for the ALP if the new LNP leader is from Trunbull’s side to spite them, others will vote for a minor party where the preferences will flow all over the place. Such a state guarantees an election win for Shorten. The best hope for the LNP to prevent that is to have a conservative/centre-right leader to bring back the core supporters. Even then there’s no certainty but at least it gives us all a real choice. Turnbull will do anything he can to stop the party moving back to the right, and that means he will destroy the LNP. If that’s the case then good – I’m sick and tired of a party that’s split so badly. Many in the LNP should do the honourable thing and join the ALP.

      40

      • #
        el gordo

        ‘Malcolm Turnbull will call a leadership spill if challenger Peter Dutton can prove he has the numbers, and says he’ll quit parliament if that happens.’ Oz

        30

        • #
          PeterS

          Now that it’s a three horse race Dutton won’t have the numbers. Checkmate. Turnbull wins. :-(

          21

          • #
            Peter C

            Are you sure?

            Liberal Politicians are a cautious lot to be sure.

            I can’t see Julie Bishop getting much support. She is untrustworthy.

            Scott Morrison maybe but Bishop will take some of his support. He is not a proponent of Liberal Values, I have no idea what he stands for.

            Peter Dutton has put himself out there. He supports populist causes. He can promote a decent Election Agenda.

            And he has 35 supporters.

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            • #
              PeterS

              No one can be sure with these things as it’s a fluid situation. At the moment it is understood Bishop is in the race. It’s part of Turnbull’s plan to block Dutton and keep the LNP to the left. If he succeeds it will destroy the LNP. There can be no recovery now given the civil war between the left and the conservatives. I can imagine if Bishop wins (unlikely) we will see resignations from the party forcing an election. To be honest I rather have Shorten as PM than her.

              20

          • #
            Kinky Keith

            Not necessarily.
            In the end the final ballot will only have two contenders.

            444 T

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    • #
      Rob Leviston

      Turnbull is a “dead man walking”. Only he is too arrogant to realise this! He has had more front benchers than anyone trying to tell him its over! What is he trying to achieve by hanging on? The total decimation of the Liberal party? Malcolm, for God’s sake, fall on your sword!

      20

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    pat

    ???

    22 Aug: RenewEconomy: Is coal power “dispatchable”?
    by Mark Diesendorf
    (Mark Diesendorf is Education Program Leader (part-time) at the Cooperative Research Centre for Low Carbon Living and Honorary Associate Professor, Environmental Humanities Group, School of Humanities & Languages at UNSW)

    As renewable electricity continues to grow rapidly, the proponents of coal power in federal government and the media are claiming that our electricity system needs ‘dispatchable, baseload’ power stations…
    They support this claim by mis-interpreting the following ACCC recommendation: ‘The Australian Government should…enter into low fixed price…energy offtake agreements…for appropriate generation projects that meet certain criteria”. One of the criteria is “to be capable of providing a firm [i.e. dispatchable] product’.

    Furthermore, the coal proponents often confuse the concepts of ‘dispatchable’ and ‘baseload’, when in reality these are well-established technical terms with different meanings.
    This article acknowledges that we need genuinely dispatchable power stations to complement the growing capacity of variable renewable energy power stations (wind and solar PV) and argues that these can be provided by renewable energy technologies.
    It shows that coal and other baseload power stations cannot fill that role…

    MOSTLY THE USUAL LOVEFEST IN THE COMMENTS, BUT NOTE:

    PacoBella: Shouldn’t the wish list of funding at the bottom include a few billion dollars for new transmission lines to connect in ASAP those RE zones that are currently limited by lack of capacity issues?
    Mark Diesendorf: Yes. Interstate links may have to be funded jointly by the federal and state governments…

    ALSO CHECK EARLIER COMMENT BY MacNordic.
    https://reneweconomy.com.au/is-coal-power-dispatchable-71095/

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    • #
      TdeF

      Firstly more billions in powerlines we did not need before ‘cheap’ wind. Then they are saying coal cannot wind up fast enough to respond to a drop in wind. How facetious can you have to be? That’s the point. You have to maintain all the capacity full time to cover any drop in wind, so why spend billions on wind at all?

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    • #
      yarpos

      Fill what role I wonder? the delivery of zero power from time to time?

      I wonder what they think we have been running on, reliably and at low cost for the last 50 years?

      40

    • #
      Rob Leviston

      Couldn’t believe it when I saw this article in my news feed this morning! I thought really? What sort of craziness is this? Think I really only read half the article.

      20

  • #
    TdeF

    • A partyroom meeting will be called for Friday at noon if the prime minister receives a letter with 43 Liberal MP signatures asking him to do so.

    • Prior to the proposed meeting time Mr Turnbull expects to receive legal advice over leadership rival Peter Dutton’s eligibility to sit in parliament.

    • If the advice does not clear Mr Dutton over a possible breach of section 44 of the constitution, the meeting will not go ahead and it is likely he would be referred to the High Court by the parliament when it next sits.

    • In that case, Turnbull would remain leader and prime minister.

    So much for secret vote, Malcolm wants everyone to vote publicly, intimidating them.
    Then if Dutton is not cleared, which is possible, Turnbull remains Prime Minister and in two weeks, Dutton has to be cleared by the High Court.

    If he is cleared and if the letter gets 43 signature then Malcolm will go home, forcing a by election.

    Redefines gracious. You only wish he was as clear on policy as he is on survival at all costs. To others.

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    pat

    22 Aug: AFR: Ben Potter: Pulling out of Paris climate deal would be a ‘slap’ to trade partners
    It would put the country at risk of “capital flight” and trade sanctions and at a disadvantage when it came to negotiating trade deals with big economies such as the European Union.
    Prime ministerial contender Peter Dutton has raised the possible move in talking up his leadership credentials, but industry and energy experts say this could make it harder to negotiate a trade deal with the EU – the world’s largest economy – and expose Australia to global trade sanctions.

    AIG chief executive Innes Willox said although periodic rumblings from Europe about trade sanctions and carbon tariffs had not eventuated to date, this could not be ruled out in the future because all of Australia’s biggest trade partners were part of the Paris agreement – including the United States, which will not withdraw for at least another two years, ***if ever.
    “Six of our top 10 bilateral partners have carbon pricing schemes, all designed to achieve targets without risking trade competitiveness,” he said.

    Walking away from Paris would slap these nations in the face and potentially compromise current trade negotiations with Europe and future ones with the UK,” Mr Willox told The Australian Financial review.
    “With open trade under greater challenge than in recent memory, now is not the time for a medium-sized open economy to test global tolerance for free riders.”…

    Capital flight
    Australian Energy Council chief executive Sarah McNamara said it would deter investment in energy…
    Environment Victoria senior climate and energy adviser Erwin Jackson said capital flight was also a risk because “the Paris agreement provides a bedrock on which national policies to reduce emissions sit”…

    The uncertainty is unlikely to affect the 7800 megawatts of wind and solar projects that the Energy Security Board says are already financed and under construction, or covered by Queensland and Victoria’s ambitious renewable energy targets.
    But it could discourage some of the proponents of the massive wave of renewable energy and storage projects that hadn’t got to the stage of financial commitment but were permitted or planned, Mr Jackson said.

    Bloomberg New Energy Finance puts the pipeline of wind and solar plants that are permitted but not financed at 16,600 megawatts, worth about $25 billion to $30 billion, with another 30,000 MW of clean generation projects and 10,637 MW of battery and pumped hydro storage projects announced and having begun planning applications…
    “If you are not seen to be taking the Paris agreement seriously, other countries will be less interested in pursuing other things that Australia is interested in – such as defence or trade,” Mr Jackson said.
    https://www.afr.com/news/pulling-out-of-paris-climate-deal-would-be-a-slap-to-trade-partners-20180822-h14c02

    Ben Potter/AFR: do you follow the news?

    India, other major countries casualties of booming American economy
    Times of India-21 hours ago

    Target CEO raves about the state of the economy: This is the best consumer environment ‘I’ve seen in my career’
    CNBC – 14 hours ago

    Booming Walmart, Cisco results show US economy’s strength is real and broad-based
    CNBC – 16 Aug 2018

    For first time, crude exports exceed imports along Texas’ Gulf Coast
    Houston Chronicle-20 Aug. 2018

    US Crude Oil Production And Exports Soar To Record Highs
    Forbes-29 Jul. 2018

    Blistering US economy still surging at midsummer, leading index shows
    MarketWatch-17 Aug. 2018

    Ben Potter/AFR: or do you follow FakeNewsMSM?

    How a booming US economy can cost Trump his presidency
    The Guardian – 20 hours ago

    Is roaring US economy a mirage?
    BBC News-20 Aug. 2018

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    • #
      RickWill

      There is absolutely no need to pull out of Paris. We simply have to stop all the transfer payments to intermittent generation. We can even keep a so-called, but misnamed, “renewable” energy target but remove the current highly favourable transfer payments. We are constantly advised that intermittents are so cheap that they are the only source of electricity that make economic sense. So there is no need to set up schemes to encourage them, the free market will just see them flourish!

      Both China and Germany are winding down mandated support for intermittents so Australia would not be alone on that front.

      And as I pointed out a few times before:
      https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/d09cae1936aaf80187148dfd037405bb?width=650
      As far as trade goes Australia supplies a massive proportion of the world energy. Lets see how the world works voluntarily cutting off that supply.

      If Dutton can muster the support he could simply remove the “fines” that retailers are required to pay if they do not meet the RET. It becomes a voluntary system. Retailers can choose to buy certificates and pass the cost on or not. Let individuals decide which retailer they use.

      Of course the other factor is to base generator schedules on the lowest cost medium-term wholesale price and schedule accordingly. That would push intermittents further back in the queue. Brown coal would be always at the front of the queue because it is the lowest cost when running but high cost when constantly ramping.

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      Yes, we don’t want our trading partners – China, Japan, S Korea, Taiwan, Japan – to catch us burning any nasty coal. No doubt they spent more on our coal last year than ever before just to stop us burning it.

      Too funny for words.

      I really think that Turnbull’s posturing, skulduggery, hypocrisy and poltroonery are just the reflection of the globalism which has infected every nook and corner of the West. It’s not what you do, it’s what you can fiddle. It’s not what you deliver, it’s how you can delude.

      With luck, Turnbull will soon be gone. But posturing, skulduggery, hypocrisy and poltroonery?

      Which reminds me…Turnbull, Frydenberg and Bishop must go. I know I’ve said it before, but I’m a man who is never tired of kicking globalists. They’re so kickable. Some people spend their time watching and listening to manipulative slop on the ABC. I come here and kick a globalist or two.

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      • #
        Greg in NZ

        Gave you a thumbs-up for the use of the word poltroonery – OK, I had to look it up in my dictionary – it was precisely what I thought it sounded like. And as for kicking gobullists, someone allegedly said in a book called Acts 26:14, “It is hard for you to kick against the pr!cks”. Hell no, keep kickin’ ‘em, “They’re so kickable.”

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      philthegeek:
      Since it was issued 14 days ago, are you saying that the Army is clairvoyant? Or that Turnbull has been planning a coup a la Maduro in Venezuela?

      By the way, have you looked up the meaning of geek?

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  • #
    philthegeek

    Sadness, just heard that Abbooot is not going to run in any leadership ballot.

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    PeterS

    Nigel Farage is doing an Australian tour next month. I wish he was here now to give us his views.

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  • #
    toorightmate

    Peter Dutton has a big new feather in his hat today – the ABC does not like him.
    He must have all the right attributes if the ABC morons do not like him.

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  • #
    pat

    21 Aug: AFR: Peter Dutton outlines policy agenda as second challenge looms
    Peter Dutton flagged immigration curbs and ***did not rule out walking away from the Paris climate change targets, as his core supporters moved to force a second leadership ballot this week by resigning en masse from the…
    (You have reached an article available exclusively to subscribers)

    23 Aug: Guardian: Anne Davies: The Dutton manifesto: populism, power bills and fewer immigrants
    The prime ministerial contender Peter Dutton has staked out a new populist policy agenda for the Liberal party that will see a cut to Australia’s immigration intake, a tougher stance on Chinese investment and measures to bring down electricity prices, including the possibility of pulling out of the Paris climate agreement…
    He appeared to leave open the door to Australia withdrawing from its Paris agreement climate change targets. “My judgment is that we do whatever reduces power prices,” he told ***3AW.

    22 Aug: SBS: AAP: Peter Dutton outlines policy manifesto
    *Potentially withdraw Australia from its Paris agreement climate change targets.
    “My judgment is that we do whatever reduces power prices.”
    (SOURCE: Radio interview, ***3AW, 22/08/2018)

    ***listened to an entire 21min-plus interview with Neil Mitchell/3AW and didn’t hear the bit about Paris. no time to search further.

    behind paywall:

    Lock-ins mean no sharp exits from Paris Agreement
    The Australian-16 hours ago
    No formal decision for Australia to quit the Paris Agreement to cut carbon

    10

  • #
    PeterS

    Apparently there are 40 signatures with another 8 not willing to sign but will support Dutton. Turnbull will need to be shamed into having the meeting, which is not an easy task given his supreme arrogance.

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    • #
      TdeF

      Why? He calculated this. Then he can stall for two weeks, then resign. A by election. Make everyone suffer. It’s all about making it as painful as possible. That’ll teach them. As in the bunker, Hitler wanted to bring all of Germany down with him. We are not looking at a humble servant of the public. This is all about Malcolm throwing a tantrum. He is angry with everyone for a change, not just Abbott.

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      • #
        TdeF

        Remember gracious Whitlam and Kerr’s cur?

        50

      • #
        TdeF

        It would be ironic if the Governor General had to intervene and dismiss Whitlam/Turnbull. That’s all the leader of the Republican movement needs. Dismissal by the Queen’s representative. Ha!

        50

      • #
        Another Ian

        TdeF

        One good thing out of this –

        fair warning for any potential business partners of the future

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      • #
        PeterS

        It appears he has been shamed into holding the meeting without seeing the signatures – at least that’s the rumour. It’s procedure that signatures of the majority of the party are not required to have a meeting. Given the massive number of resignations and the fact that Turnbull has been told in person he has lost support of the party he should have done the honourable thing and called the meeting immediately. Of course he is not honourable so here we are still not sure whether the meeting will be called. He is destroying the party and I doubt it will ever be repairable unless someone with a strong conviction to real Liberal conservative values is selected. It’s too early to tell whether Dutton is that person but given he’s the only true conservative in the race we don’t have a choice.

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        • #
          Graeme#4

          Seeing as how he went on record today to say that he wants to see the signatures, if he has to back down on this, this surely would be a major blow to his ego.

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    • #

      Dutton’s a bete noir of the Left and doesn’t care. Caroline Overington, today’s Oz, ‘Dutton as anti-Malcolm” Dutton can’t so
      needed their love. Everything about politics, – not being liked, occasionally being mocked and loathed – sees to pain the PM.

      Dutton has always been a Liberal…He’s had real jobs as a young man, he graduated from the police academy, and he has been an
      officer in the drug squad and the sex offenders squad, so you can imagine what he has seen.’

      Lefties don’t like him. co-opted Get-Up, part of Soros’ funded Rise-Up Org to attack him so he’s used to progressive medja
      hate campaigns – that’s an advantage. Give ‘em the ‘Fake News’ response.

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  • #
    Bobl

    Jo. Desperate we need an increased a day until this is over

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  • #
    Another Ian

    Jo FYI

    “12 ICCC Monckton Presentation – March 2017″

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2018/08/23/12-iccc-monckton-presentation-march-2017/

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    Another Ian

    More “knowledgeable reporting” – AKA fake news

    ” “Officers seized a sawed-off, lever-action .30-30 calibre shotgun from inside the suspected stolen vehicle.”

    Say what? Where can I get one of these “special” firearms? Let’s ask the reporter who made the discovery…

    “Claire Theobald is an Edmonton-based reporter who covers crime and the courts.”

    So… a crime reporter who doesn’t know the difference between a rifle and a shotgun. Also… not sawed off… that’s how this carbine comes from the factory.”

    https://hallsofmacadamia.blogspot.com/2018/08/your-toronto-star.html

    Via SDA

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    yarpos

    Just saw a amazing bit of ABC self promotion , with Sam Neill speaking in an ABC defense advert, saying the the ABC is critical to life in Australia. Good grief.

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    Deplorable Lord Kek

    Only TWO signatures of Lib parliamentarians are required to call a meeting.
    The PM has discretion WHEN to call the meeting but protocol dictates within 12-24 hours.
    Still someone should get the 43 signatures and nail it to Turnbull’s door, Martin Luther style.

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    • #
      Hanrahan

      I’ve been wondering all afternoon if the whip can call the meeting and Bronnie Bishop, [who knows rules as well as anyone] seemed to suggest this is so on PML.

      The thought that the Wentworth Waffler can “dodge the process server” sounds absurd to me.

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    Somebody at another website, said this to me,
    “I think that the problem is that most of us can’t understand what you are on about.”

    Here is my reply.
    =================

    I understand what you mean, when you say, “I think that the problem is that most of us can’t understand what you are on about.”.

    There is something about global warming contour maps, that many people find confusing. The format of the graph is unusual. It is displaying 4 dimensions, using 2 axes (the X-axis and the Y-axis) for 2 dimensions, colour for 1 dimension (warming rate), and the other dimension is hidden (you can calculate it from the X-axis and Y-axis).

    So there are a number of things about contour maps which are counter-intuitive.

    I have spent about 2 and a half years developing global warming contour maps. And even I have to be careful when I interpret them.

    All temperature series are probably not perfect. That is why you should look at all of them.

    Global warming contour maps give you the most comprehensive view of the temperature data, that it is possible to get. Not only does it show you how the warming rate varies over time, but it also shows you how the warming rate varies for different trend lengths.

    That lets you see if warming rates are consistent, or changing over time and/or trend length.

    Global warming contour maps show the chaotic nature of climate. Every contour map shows the short-term warming and cooling events along the bottom. The El Nino’s and La Nina’s. You can actually SEE the 1998 El Nino, in colour (actually 2 colours, red for the warming phase, and blue for the cooling phase).

    I have worked hard to try and make global warming contour maps more understandable. I invented Robot-Train contour maps to try and help people understand contour maps. I don’t know what else I can do, to make it easier. People have to be prepared to make a little effort, to understand them. I am always happy to answer questions, and help people in any way that I can.

    I get a lot of hostility from Alarmists and Warmists. I am not joking, when I say that I have been called a Denier, and verbally abused, for over 9 years. I also get verbally abused by Skeptics, who don’t understand what contour maps are saying. I am frequently accused of being an Alarmist or Warmist.

    I don’t really expect to win. But I am still here fighting after 2 and a half years. If I can’t win with mathematics and logic, I will just keep going until people surrender, because they can’t stand me any longer.

    Have a closer look at global warming contour maps. You might even enjoy it. I do.

    https://agree-to-disagree.com

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      Chad

      Sheldon,
      Why do you call them. ” Global warming maps”. When you say they are only based on USA data ?
      The fundamental flaw is that you rely on a unreliable data source .

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      • #

        Hi Chad,

        “Global warming contour maps” was the name that I decided on, because I developed them to study global warming.

        I sometimes wonder if I should have called them “Rate of Change” graphs. They can be used with any time series, not just temperature.

        They can be plotted for ANY temperature series, ANY date range, ANY area of the earth (global or local), and some other special conditions, like all months, one particular month, or ANY season.

        I recently investigated seasonal cooling in the stratosphere, in both the northern and southern hemispheres.

        You are partly correct about a fundamental flaw. A contour map depends on a possibly unreliable temperature series.

        But all is not lost. I don’t just produce contour maps from one temperature series. I produce contour maps from every temperature series that I can find. GISTEMP, NOAA, HadCRUT, UAH, RSS, BEST, weather balloon data (RATPAC), and many more. I have even made contour maps from the Central England Temperature series (CET), going back nearly 360 years (from 1660).

        And then I compare all of the contour maps. I find the bits that agree, and I find the bits that disagree. And then I try to make an intelligent guess, at what is happening.

        I can’t think of a better way to get a reasonable answer, to questions about global warming. Can you?

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      • #

        Hi Chad,

        I forgot to say, if you want Global data, have a look at:

        GISTEMP Global Land and Ocean (1970 to 2018)
        https://agree-to-disagree.com/how-to-look-for-slowdowns

        Weather balloon data, both northern and southern hemispheres
        https://agree-to-disagree.com/seasonal-warming

        GISTEMP Global Land and Ocean (1970 to 2018) – The earth divided into 8 equal area regions by latitude
        https://agree-to-disagree.com/new-regional-warming

        Weather balloon data – for the stratosphere, the upper troposphere, and the lower troposphere
        https://agree-to-disagree.com/weather-balloon-data-ratpac

        A comparison of GISTEMP Global with UAH Global (1980 to 2018) – both the northern and southern hemispheres
        https://agree-to-disagree.com/gistemp-and-uah

        I try to make new contour maps, whenever I can, so keep checking my website.
        https://agree-to-disagree.com

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          Chad

          Sheldon,
          So have you constructed a true combined “Global” temp map for the past 100 yrs to date ?
          Also the main issue i personally have is that graphical presentation of data is intended to make understanding the data much easier.
          Your “Global temp Contour” maps do not do that.
          They are much more conplex and difficult to understand than the simple line graph , but are still trying to highlight the same basic points.

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            Chad,

            there is a well known saying, “Everything Should Be Made as Simple as Possible, But Not Simpler”.

            I have made global warming contour maps as Simple as Possible. Any simpler, and they start losing information.

            A global warming contour map, makes warming rates objective. e.g. It is red, therefore the warming rate is…

            A line graph does NOT do this. You may look at a line graph, and say, “there is a definite slowdown/pause”.

            But Tamino looks at the same line graph, and says, “You are an idiot. There is NO slowdown/pause”.

            So you produce a linear regression from 2000 to 2012, and say, “Look Tamino, scientific proof of the slowdown/pause”.

            And Tamino smiles, and says, “You cherry-picked that date range. That doesn’t prove that there was a slowdown/pause”.

            With a global warming contour map, there is NO cherry-picking. It shows you EVERY possible warming rate (between 150,000 and 350,000 of them).

            NOBODY can accuse you of cherry-picking. That is why I developed global warming contour maps.

            Global warming contour maps, can be interpreted on a number of levels. Some simple, some complex.

            Colour is a simple level. The colour is red on contour map 1, and orange on contour map 2. Therefore the warming rate was greater on contour map 1.

            Even a 5 year old can understand that.

            Chad, perhaps you need to put a little more effort into learning how to understand global warming contour maps. It is well worth it.

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              Kinky Keith

              Like Chad I think that if you really knew what you were talking about you would have been able to explain your wisdom.

              KK

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    sophocles

    Well, this has been a fascinating week. I’ve been too busy, watching, listening and reading to say anything. It isn’t over yet, so this will be brief … :-)

    I have to admire MT in just one respect: he is a consummate politician and a true politician: personal survival at any cost, even to that of his own credibility. Loss of credibility, unfortunately, is the cause of the undoing of every politician who is undone.

    He is a very gullible man; he certainly has himself fooled.

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      Graeme#4

      I think it was summed up neatly by a commentator in The Oz this morning – Turnbull just wanted to be Prime Minister, he didn’t care which party.

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    Greg Cavanagh

    OMG, just found this youtube. Big Don…. Donald Trump….. oh my.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALGkQq3RJ7k

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