JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Dear Australia, would you rather have $8,500 or a 0.0001C cooler climate for your 130th Birthday?

IPA estimates Paris Agreement to stop storms and hold back the tide may cost $8500 per Australian family

What a deal. You could have free electricity for the next four years or an imperceptible difference in the air outside the nursing home for your children’s 94th birthday.

The Americans went for the money. So did nearly everyone else.

Damian Wild at the IPA calculates that the Paris Agreement will cost patsy Australians $52 billion dollars in the next 12 years.

Paris deal spells ‘irreparable damage’: IPA report

Rachel Baxendale, The Australian

A study by the Institute of Public ­Affairs, “Why Australia must exit the Paris Climate Agreement”, estimates our Paris target of reducing emissions to 26-28 per cent on 2005 levels by 2030 will impose a $52 billion economic cost between now and 2030, equating to $8566 a family.

Paris Agreement To Cost Australia $52 Billion

“The immutable law of energy policy is this: lower emissions mean higher prices.”

“Each family in Australia will be at least $8,566 worse off under the Paris Climate Agreement, on average. This is at a time when wages are stagnating and the cost of living is rising.”

“$52 billion could purchase 22 new hospitals or pay for 20 years’ worth of the Gonski 2.0 education funding.”

“For families, $8,566 could be used to pay off credit card debt, pay the school fees for a few years, or pay four years’ worth of electricity bills.”

Turnbull still killing the ultimate political gift for the Coalition — the carbon tax.

There is a Coalition Partyroom meeting coming today where a Turnbull-with-falling-popularity will try to convince a nervous set of MP’s that they won’t lose their seats if the Coalition runs the same soulless campaign it almost lost on last time. Back then Turnbull took 90 seats and turned them into 76 and barely got elected.

The biggest obvious and easy win for conservatives in 2019 is to copy Abbott-Trump-Dean proven successes, axe the tax, Get Out of Paris, and run an Electro-Scary-Bill campaign. Turnbull can’t do that because he can’t criticize Labor for a plan he wants to do himself. He can’t call it witchdoctor science, can’t mock them for being tools for the Renewables Industry, can’t ridicule their plan to stop floods with solar panels. Can’t vow to limit renewables damage on electricity bills. Turnbull also can’t brag about his glorious successes either — two previous governments tried their damnedest to bring in an emissions trading scheme and paid for it. Turnbull achieved what they couldn’t but he can’t sing about it. The Green left voters would vote green anyway (too much tax is never enough, and it’s about the tribe not the policy anyhow.)  And for the Liberal base it’s electoral poison. A million Defcons are still ready to swing.

The Liberals could romp it in in this election if they just dumped Turnbull, grew a spine, and copied recent conservative successes all around the world.

PS: Congrats and thanks to the volunteer team taking 23 semitrailers of West Australian hay to starving cattle and sheep in the East.

A convoy of 23 semi-trailers loaded with hay left Northam on Monday for drought stricken NSW, thanks to efforts by the Christian church-based Rapid Relief Team. RRT, an initiative of the Plymouth Brethren church, purchased more than $660,000 of WA hay which is set to arrive in Condobolin in NSW on Friday after a 3500km trip. The hay is being transported by WA truck drivers, most of whom are volunteering their time for the nine-day round trip.

REFERENCE

Damian Wild (2018) Why Australia must exit the Paris Climate Agreement, IPA. PDF.

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Rating: 9.6/10 (77 votes cast)
Dear Australia, would you rather have $8,500 or a 0.0001C cooler climate for your 130th Birthday?, 9.6 out of 10 based on 77 ratings

170 comments to Dear Australia, would you rather have $8,500 or a 0.0001C cooler climate for your 130th Birthday?

  • #
    Andrew

    DEFCons?


    [Update: A term coined here in Australia during the last election for the defiant conservatives who felt Turnbull was so Labor-like they were even considering voting Labor third last (above the Liberals) in our preferential system. A "nuclear" option. See sophocles and gbees and the link in the post. -- Jo]

    60

    • #
      sophocles

      Andrew @ # !:

      I think Jo might be using the term in this sense rather than in this sense,
      or this sense. :-) .

      51

    • #
      gbees

      DEFCON means defiant conservatives as opposed to DELCONS, delusional conservatives as coined by Miranda Devine.

      We are certainly not delusional but are defiant.

      Chairman Maol must be dethroned for the sake of OZ.

      231

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        And would be replaced by Shortonideas at the next “election”…..no matter who you “vote” for you get the same agenda….that would be the very definition of a conspiracy.

        41

        • #
          angry

          Vote for the Minor Parties.

          Request a postal vote and number every single person, putting the Major Parties ALL LAST.

          No pressure at the polling booth that way.

          41

        • #
          gbees

          Well primary voting for both Labor & LNP is in the 30% range, which means that 30% are voting elsewhere. The problem with using past preferencing to come up with a 2PP is that this time will be way different. Voters are actually choosing to decide their own preferences versus doing what the major parties tell them to do. That’s why the 51-49 is rubbish.

          01

  • #
    Bite Back

    I can’t resist saying this. Climate change decisions make themselves if you have something a little more dense than air between your ears and are honest.

    The world needs you in Australia to say no to Paris.

    BB

    343

    • #
      Latus Dextro

      In reality it’s really far worse.
      Dear Australia, would you rather have $8,500 or a THEORETICALLY 0.0001C cooler climate for your 130th Birthday?

      51

  • #
    Betapug

    “If somebody wants to build a coal-fired power plant, they can. It’s just that it will bankrupt them,” Obama said, responding to a question about his cap-and-trade plan. He later added, “Under my plan … electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket.” B. Obama, 2008

    Not bad for a Chicago community activist! His grasp of economics was actually better than we thought.
    https://www.politico.com/story/2012/04/uttered-in-2008-still-haunting-obama-in-2012-074892

    201

    • #
      ColA

      CEO of Bluescope Steel on ABC radio this morning:-
      Asked what he thought of Trump and the American economy – very nicely thank you! after post a billion + profit from strong American sales! for the first profit in several years.
      What does business need from power – AFFORDABLE, RELIABLE, DISPATCHABLE supply 24/7 and renewables and NOT RELIABLE and NOT DISPATCHABLE!

      Craig Kelly, MP also this morning – the only dispatchable power currently earmarked is 2,000 MW of Snowy 2 and 400 MW of batteries – BUT Craig that is NOT is not CREATED it is recycled with 10 – 20% efficiency loss. Renewables get 3.6 BILLION a year in subsidies with 10 Billion in the building fund!

      We need to RENEW CURRENT and ADD new reliable base load power GENERATION! Gas, Coal, Thorium/Nuclear or Hydro.

      151

      • #
        DAW

        Thorium/Nuclear and Hydro combined would be a good mix and should (but probably won’t) silence the crackpots who think CO2 is warming the world.
        Hydro in large quantities will require building new dams and storing more water which is highly desirable even without hydro-turbines generating electricity.Would help drought proof Australia and boost ag production.
        As we sell Coal overseas we will have the money to build the Dams. Why not?

        91

      • #
        glen Michel

        Why does Bluescope support the NEG?

        41

        • #
          Ian

          This might help:

          Australian steel giant BlueScope is turning to solar to help power its Port Kembla Steelworks, signing a 7-year power purchase agreement to take the bulk of the output from the 133MW (AC) Finley Solar Farm to be located 100km west of Albury.

          The landmark deal with ESCO Pacific and Schneider Electric continues the rush of major corporate buyers towards solar technologies, with Finley expected to supply the equivalent of 20 per cent of BlueScope’s Australian electricity purchases, “significantly” reducing costs and providing price certainty.

          16

      • #
        Ian

        CEO of Bluescope Steel on ABC radio this morning:-

        What does business need from power – AFFORDABLE, RELIABLE, DISPATCHABLE supply 24/7 and renewables and NOT RELIABLE and NOT DISPATCHABLE!

        That seems strange as this is what the Bluescope Steel CEO was reported as saying in June 2018

        BlueScope chief Mark Vasella and BHP Billiton commercial chief Arnoud Balhuizen will warn Coalition MPs against backsliding on the National Energy Guarantee after former prime minister Tony Abbott last week left the door open to crossing the floor on the policy.

        BHP, which spent $620 million on electricity across Australia last year, will outline detailed modelling that shows the government plan can bring greater reliability to the electricity grid while meeting emission targets.

        In a concerted move to counter Mr Abbott and other critics, the two executives will be joined by Business Council of Australia chief Jennifer Westacott and Australian Industry Group chief Innes Willox at the meeting of the Coalition backbench committee on energy on Tuesday.

        The president of BHP’s minerals operation in Australia, Mike Henry, told Fairfax Media the company was backing the policy as the best way to improve reliability and meet emission targets in an affordable way.

        26

      • #
        Bobl

        Please stop posting rubbish, the recycling loses are minimum 30% but in practice closer to 50%. Turns 6c wholesale electricity into 14c wholesale electricity (after operating costs are added). The only way I would support snowy 2.0 is if they expand the catchment ( which they COULD DO )

        31

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      It’s just that it will bankrupt them,” Obama said, responding to a question about his cap-and-trade plan. He later added, “Under my plan … electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket.” B. Obama, 2008

      The tragedy in that is simple and profound. No one recognized just how thoroughly dishonest Obama is even after he gave his entire game away — I’m out to screw you and I’ll slick talk you into liking it.

      That anyone could call this little thug, “Messiah,” is beyond me. Yet they did. And he is exactly that, a thug. As you do, so you are. And he did what thugs do. He lied, lined his own pockets, undermined those who paid the daily bills for the United States, weakened our defense, and ultimately violated the constitution with is “pen and his phone” and I think no one knows to this date the full extent of the harm he did to the county that gave him citizenship, the right to vote and the right to compete to become president. If I live to be 100 I won’t have time enough to figure out how he bamboozled so many people so thoroughly that they still follow him today.

      What have we become that we’re now on the verge of civil war in large because of this one man’s legacy of lies and deceit and his choices for secretaries of cabinet positions? And that’s where we are when people are openly calling for violence against the president.

      71

      • #
        Kinky Keith

        Unfortunately Roy, a very convincing summary.

        The problem is that so many people are drawn to believe output from the media as being reality.

        They have neither time nor the ability to check and believe whatever is pumped at them and we all end up being manipulated.

        The Media is all powerful.

        KK

        31

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          KK,

          If I was a sheep rancher I could get rich. They need a continuous supply of wool to pull over everyone’s eyes so they don’t see the secret. Obama was wearing an empty suit. His words were pure BS. Unfortunately behind the scene where he dared not let anyone who was not in on his scheme get a look he was at war with not just his country but the entire industrial world. We succeeded so we must be stealing it from someone else. Remember his statement that if you had a business, you didn’t build it. And there is the jealousy, not even hidden anymore. You have it and I want it and I’m going to figure out how to legally take it so you can’t even complain.

          We humans on the whole tend to be always driving at 90 miles an hour down a dead end street with a blindfold on. How we have achieved something on the order of hundreds of thousands of years (according to archaeology) of avoiding extinction is nothing short of amazing.

          I’m glad he is a dysfunctional man who played golf too often and worked in his office not nearly enough. Otherwise it could be much worse.

          11

          • #
            Kinky Keith

            It’s discouraging that when you finally reach the age where you can see and understand politics clearly, you wish you hadn’t bothered about it.

            OBama, Turnbull; hollow men.

            KK

            20

            • #
              Roy Hogue

              Discouraging is an understatement. It’s depressing.

              The good guys let their guard down for far too long and now there are not enough good guys left to save humanity’s bacon from the fire.

              My reading of things is that, at least in American, the average man’s mind is on, his next beer, the next game on TV, and his next romp in bed, not on what his government is doing. I hate to be that blunt but just try to hold a reasonable debate about today’s political hot potatoes without ending up in a shouting match or making an enemy of the guy you would like to convince and see what it gets you. But then I think you already know. Some favored ideology holds sway over cold hard facts and rational thinking.

              I no longer watch or read the news. Well, not strictly true… …I look for information about what has actually been done and the result of what’s been done and then I know what happened. The rest is just hot air. In an hour of some talking head I may get only a few minutes of actual information. News broadcasts are either slanted toward a particular political view — MSNBC vs. Fox News Channel — or they’re slanted toward all the things you never needed to know about like who slept with whom, who shot whom, the weather in so much bloody detail it gets boring…all sensationalism. Useful information has to be squeezed out of all that by patient listening and discarding the sensational and the nonsense. It gets tough to do.

              The announcement that John Brennan, former CIA head had his security clearance lifted took less than thirty seconds. Then everyone all day and all night had to discuss it over and over and over again. And everyone has their slant toward the favored view of life they have.

              I miss Walter Cronkite who just read the news and then it was finished and over with and I knew what happened that day.

              00

              • #
                Roy Hogue

                Now we have Maxine Waters, the next best thing to the village idiot looking like a big leader in the party Democrat. She lives in a mansion compared to anything you or I could afford.

                00

  • #
  • #
    Yonniestone

    Would someone in the LNP please step up and do the right thing by the people that elected you and get rid of the Trojan Turnbull!

    351

    • #
      el gordo

      Today the ginger group make their move.

      121

      • #
        GD

        For the love of God, I hope so.

        221

      • #
        PeterS

        What’s the voting process today? Does it have to be unanimous for the NEG to be approved? If not then I can’t see it being blocked as I suspect most of the the party is behind the NEG. A leadership challenge won’t work for the same reason. There’s only two things the ginger group can do to block the NEG. One, cross the floor at the parliamentary vote provided ALP doesn’t cross over to the LNP side. The trouble with that is Turnbull will still be PM leading the LNP to a major defeat at the next election. The second option has to be executed. The ginger group resign from the party en mass and block Turnbull or Shorten from running the nation over the cliff.

        70

        • #
          el gordo

          A block of 12 could tell the PM they will cross the floor of parliament and embarrass him.

          30

          • #
            PeterS

            That won’t embarrass him. He would consider that a major victory. He has a tin heart as well as a tin ear.

            100

          • #
            Bobl

            Just takes one to resign and MT has a minority government subject to a no confidence vote. We really need the nationals to stand up and be counted, tell MT the coalition is toast until the NEG is dropped.

            10

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          PeterS:

          Not necessarily so. As backbenchers they can cross the floor – Turnbull did that so any objections from him will be ignored.
          The question is what will the Nationals do? If they vote against it then to get the NEG through (even the lower house) would require Labor to vote in favour of the NEG.
          That would suit the Nationals as they could campaign on the old slogan “we could keep the bastards honest” and probably pick up several Liberal seats. With Turnbull dependent on Labor support he won’t last. With all the backbenchers thinking about the Longman result (where the Liberal vote dropped below 30%) they won’t be against a change (neither will many Ministers).

          Would Labor support the NEG? Doubtful if they have ever read Uncle Remus’s tale of the Tar Baby*. Far better to vote against it, claiming it doesn’t go far enough and hope to pick up enough Green support to make up for the loss of old time members, while letting the Liberals convulse.

          * Immediate death or being torn to pieces by thorns.

          90

          • #
            PeterS

            Sounds reasonable. In that case we can expect after the NEG is approved by the party today the ginger group will cross the floor later this year in the lower house and the NEG is no longer. ALP+Greens still win the next election by a landslide and the nation still goes over the cliff. As I said before the only real option barring an LNP leadership change is for the ginger group to resign from the party at the suitable time to block both Turnbull and Shorten from destroying the nation. It’s really our only hope.

            80

            • #
              el gordo

              I think Turnbull and Frydenberg will let new Hele be built so that the ginger group can come on board the NEG.

              Haven’t seen the fine print, we should know the answer in a few hours.

              20

          • #
            Hivemind

            The Liberal/National coalition has a single seat majority. If anyone crosses the floor, the Labor party would say thanks, you no longer have the confidence of Parliament. They would go to the Governor-General and get an immediate change of Government. Then Labor hold an election to cement their electoral position. The first item of business after that would be to vote in legislation to lock in a 50% unreliables “target” with the help of their masters in the Greens party.

            40

            • #
              el gordo

              We can safely say the Westminster system has broken down.

              No doubt Turnbull would have raised that spectre in the Party Room and the ginger group went to water. Its a sad day for Australian democracy.

              30

      • #
        Ian

        What is “the Ginger Group” and what was this move they were going to make? I have no idea if “the Ginger Group” was for or against the NEG. Presumably it was for the NEG as it was supported by the majority in the Party Room. If it was against the NEG then it failed to make much headway

        20

    • #
      Another Ian

      Yonnie

      Yet another poll continuing Turnbull’s “perfect run”

      Cromwell’s speech to Charles 1st.

      ” “YOU HAVE BEEN SAT TO LONG HERE FOR ANY GOOD YOU HAVE BEEN DOING. DEPART, I SAY, AND LET US HAVE DONE WITH YOU. IN THE NAME OF GOD, GO!.”

      (Addressing the Rump Parliament. April 1653.

      Memorials of English Affairs. Oxford Dictionary of Quotations.)

      Repeated by L.S Amery to Neville Chamberlain in 1940, ushering in the Churchill government.

      Sounds to me like time it was repeated again in Canberra.

      (Repeated from the last Unthreaded)

      60

    • #
      ivan

      Slightly OT but relevant to the stupid politics. It appears that no one in Australia will be safe from snooping on anything they do on line even if it is encrypted. https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/08/14/oz_encryption_backdoor/ There is a very short window to complain about this and I suspect all comments will be checked and rejected if bad words are used.

      I think this proves the Turnbull government is out to reduce Australia to a slave state of the UN.

      50

  • #

    Maybe if they could direct us to the period, even the decade, when the climate was somehow less deadly than now? I’d avoid the 1930s, or the 1910s, or the 1950s, or…come to think of it, I’d avoid dialing in the whole of last century. Certainly wouldn’t want a repeat of the century before that. Or the one before that. Or the five before that. Totally don’t want the climate of the 14th century!

    But here we are chatting away…while Davos Man Turnbull, Davos Thing Frydenberg and Clinton Swampie Bishop are still enjoying power, still aiming to take Australia’s economy to the pub so Labor can then toss it right over the pub counter.

    Yes indeed, we do but chat in what was lately called our parochial backwater as long as Turnbull, Frydenberg and Bishop are raffling this nation off to the carpetbaggers, touts, stock-jobbers, hustlers, pilferers and cut-purses of globalism. Globalism being a grotesque mix of Trotskyite communism and National Socialism in all its effects…in case some haven’t noticed.

    Okay? Their names are Turnbull, Frydenberg and Bishop. All will not be well just because they are gone. But all will never be better until they are gone. As I’ve said before, they are the goannas in the chook house and the only place for them is away from the chook house. They will not change. They are goannas.

    And the names of these goannas who must be removed with the utmost urgency are Turnbull, Frydenberg and Bishop. The subject of their removal is a subject which must not be changed by the usual diverters and distracters.

    Turnbull, Frydenberg and Bishop. First they go, then we talk. That’s Turnbull, Frydenberg and Bishop.

    250

    • #
      PeterS

      Let’s wait and see if the party has the guts to change leader. I doubt they do but I’d be happy to be proven wrong. Failing that there really is only one thing the so called ginger group can do to stop Turnbull (and Shorten for that matter) running the nation over the cliff. They need to resign and block either Turnbull or Shorten forming a major government. Then we might see something good happen for once although there is no guarantee. One thing is for sure though. As long as the ginger group remain in their respective parties (Liberal/Nats) things will not change and the nation will crash and burn under ALP+Greens.

      100

  • #
    C. Paul Barreira

    Each family in Australia will be at least $8,566 worse off under the Paris Climate Agreement, on average. This is at a time when wages are stagnating and the cost of living is rising. $52 billion could purchase 22 new hospitals or pay for 20 years’ worth of the Gonski 2.0 education funding.

    Journalists can’t help themselves can they. They, like the characters in Mosmoso (#6 above)—”Davos Man Turnbull, Davos Thing Frydenberg and Clinton Swampie Bishop”—must always have government make the decisions about personal spending. Families, according to Rachel Baxendale, can continue to lose “at leat $8,566″ annually in order to pay for other government activity. Gonski 2 will achieve what: more zombies among the increasingly non-citizens that Australians have become. As for hospitals? Well, we in South Australia have the new RAH—Rann’s Adelaide Hospital—as the model.

    Better to shrink government. Oh, and have a meaningful CPI—surely that’s possible? Isn’t it?

    90

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      Paul, I think that the eight and a half thousand is for the twelve years up to 2030 and is per household.

      KK

      11

    • #
      toorightmate

      I think the Royal Adelaide Hospital project and the State’s power generation (?) system must have been ideas which Mike Rann gleaned from Venezuela.

      20

  • #

    [...] Jo Nova has flagged an important paper from the IPA on the cost to Australian people of the failing Paris accord. [...]

    20

  • #
    RobK

    Ive read Damien Wild’s report. It is on the right track. He notes (as does Jo’s intro) that no allowence is made for the loss of economic advantage Australia had before 2007 when electricity prices were amongst the lowest in the world.
    Most of the modelling i have read gives little or no cost to redesign of the grid itself which will be an increasing burden as the penetration of RE increases.
    I note that as the NEM extends halfway around the country and pro-RE modelling relies on wiring electricity throughout to maximize the hopeful delusion that the wind is always blowing somewhere and the sun shines longer when the spread of the grid is maximized east-west. It will need major beefing up. Added to this are yet to be addressed technical issues of how to facilitate a grid with random wildly surging flows and vast distances, along with increased load to recharge storage like pumped hydro in the required short order. Issues with things such as fault current discrimination and ground current issues are likely to present as increasingly intractable problems. As will ancillory services of frequency FCAS. There may be issues with synthetic inertia if batteries become significant. There are so many expensive headaches to resolve with this giant experiment that I’m sure the economic modellers have missed because the engineers whilst warning of the dangers (Finkel made passing reference and suggested extra boards to keep a eye on things), the real costs will only be known as the issues arise and need rectification. There are so many hidden costs, this RE experiment is a bad idea. Some coal power and some nuclear in remote places would see us back on track to limit the wasteful path we are on now.

    180

    • #
      RobK

      I should add the hidden costs of: smart metering to facilitate domestic and commercial demand management and load shedding. Extra instrumentation and controls to enable high penetration of distributed supply such as domestic and commercial PV. It gets worse the more there is of it.

      100

      • #
        RobK

        To illustrate my point:
        Some RE projects are finding that the grid isn’t set up for low grade electricity. FROM RENEWECONOMY

        solar, wind projects stumble in front of new grid hurdles

        Giles Parkinson30 July
        Image: iStock

        The 100MW Numurkah solar farm might be one of the lucky ones.

        Located in Shepparton, in a part of Victoria with a relatively strong network, construction on the state’s biggest solar farm to date begins this week and the project owners, Neoen, are confident that no major hurdles will be put in place.

        But that’s not the case for many other wind and solar projects in Victoria and elsewhere.

        Some, including those that have gotten as far as signing power purchase agreements, are having to go back to the drawing board because of connection requirements the developers either ignored, or didn’t know about.

        The issue is most acute in western Victoria, but is also being felt in northern Queensland and south-west NSW.

        Many new projects are being told that they face significant curtailment without either adding battery storage or old-style machinery known as synchronous condensers to deal with system strength issues.

        Both options are causing headaches for developers, because either way they are trashing their financial models, and could cause extensive delays to projects that many expected would begin construction anytime soon.

        The issue was highlighted in our story in May about the threat of curtailment in Victoria, where project developers were warned by the Australian Energy Market Operator that up to 50 per cent of their output was at risk of being wound back.

        reneweconomy.com.au/major-solar-wind-projects-stumble-in-front-of-new-grid-hurdles-71104/
        RTWT

        80

    • #
      Another Ian

      Modelling dictum – if in doubt leave it out

      60

  • #
    Zigmaster

    Whilst people can argue about what will happen to power prices in the future everyone can feel the pain from rises in the past. Further the 52 billion doesn’t take into account flow on costs to the economy which would be at least as great. The other factor is that Both parties appeared committed to exceeding their Paris agreement targets . Again that would be an additional cost. I think the $ 52 billion will look like chicken feed compared to what will happen if we go down this path. Electricity will be a luxury item.

    100

  • #
    Greg Cavanagh

    Where does $52billion disappear to?

    30

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Greg:

      It goes to the undeserving rich.

      40

      • #
        Another Ian

        Where to reclaim some of that $8500 per family

        “AGL, with its record $1.58 billion dollar profit, received $225 million in government grants in the last year”

        http://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2018/08/agl-with-its-record-158-billion-dollar-profit-received-225-million-in-government-grants-in-the-last-.html

        20

      • #
        RobK

        That… and the installation of infrastructure that can never be fully utilized by design. Everything needs to be oversized because it is needed from time to time, either when the wind is blowing and the sun is shining,or when its not. When favourable weather prevails the system has to be big enough to supply the load and charge the batteries. Everything needs to be oversized and under utilized. Its hopeless.

        30

        • #
          Bobl

          Yes, this is my problem with it, I’m an engineer but more than that most of my career has been in asset management, put simply that means to get the lowest cost for the highest output. That is not the cheapest or the most gold plated but rather the most cost effective. RE is an asset managers nightmare, is inefficient, has significant management loses, requires very low utilisation backup. The idea of asset management is to never have anything idle. For example having diesel backed solar is just wasting the capacity of the diesel, you pay the maintenance for the backup generator even though it’s rarely used, that generator is worthless, it’s a nett cost to your business. Besides since the generator can replace the solar, then what’s the point of the solar given the generator is better than the solar. It’s more efficient to just use the generator and dump the solar.

          Solar and wind are inherently inefficient, it works intermittently so the infrastructure only effectively gets used 20% of the time while fossil generators get used 95% of the time. They use huge tracts of land, and are short lived. They are highly vulnerable to weather events and attack/sabotage. Solar and wind are therefore incredibly wasteful. Sustainable? Not on your life. You’d have to be completely nuts to use them for a national grid, even if just for the fact that they are unable to be militarily defended.

          10

  • #
    Antoine D'Arche

    Turnbull is not out to win the next election. His one job was to destroy the Liberal party, and fragment their conservative voting base. 10/10 so far. He can now relax, take in the defeat at the next election, and go on to a plum job at the UN, like the dirty little committed Globalist he really is.
    Then we get Labour, Global migration compact and Paris, very little electricity, lots of tax and lots of poverty. Somewhere the possibility of a revolt.
    I don’t think the Labor party rejected him at all. I think they saw in him the ultimate Trojan horse and made a sweet deal with him. Run as a Liberal, and wreck the conservatives. It’s been years in the making and finally coming to fruition.

    280

    • #
      Dennis

      Years ago Turnbull said he wanted to get rid of the Country Party (now National Party) and merge Liberal and Labor.

      100

    • #
      el gordo

      Antoine that is a good analysis, but there remains a lot of unknowns.

      Its more than likely Turnbull will fall on his sword before Xmas if the ginger group don’t get their way.

      Against the odds the Coalition should then win the next election with a return to the climate wars, in relation to the NEG, and slowing the flow of new immigrants until we unlock the regions. In the 21st century we can overcome the tyranny of distance, but it needs to be done in an orderly fashion to avoid friction.

      We will decide who comes to this country, not the UN.

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      • #
        Asp

        Mal has already conceded that his use-by date is up and has arranged for AUD 444 M of goodwill to those that will provide him with his next job. And we thought that Julia was the country wrecker without peer!

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  • #
    Another Ian

    “Study: CO2 rise after last ice age didn’t need man-made influences, just the deep Pacific Ocean”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/08/13/study-co2-rise-after-last-ice-age-didnt-need-man-made-influences-just-the-deep-pacific-ocean/

    10

  • #
    Another Ian

    “Dear Australia, would you rather have $8,500 or a 0.0001C cooler climate for your 130th Birthday?”

    Unfortunately (to quote the Jerry Jeff Walker song)

    “The answer is pissing in the wind”

    Words here

    http://www.amiright.com/parody/60s/bobdylan231.shtml

    10

  • #
    Another Ian

    Somewhat O/T

    “Blow to warmists, the proposed ‘Anthropocene’ epoch has been denied by ICS”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/08/13/blow-to-warmists-the-proposed-anthropocene-epoch-has-been-denied-by-ics/

    10

  • #
    Robber

    Dumb Energy. Nice book title.

    Because wind and solar can’t be counted on, the “rest of the grid” has to be able to stand alone. To be clear: if wind and solar vanished overnight, the grid would get along perfectly well. Adding wind and solar to the grid does not replace any significant part of the existing grid because the existing grid must be ready to step in when wind or solar is generating little electricity. The only economic benefit of wind or solar is fuel savings in the backup plants when backup plant electricity is displaced by wind or solar electricity.

    51

  • #
    glen Michel

    Media cut-through is a big problem. We need a polemicist of stature who could achieve that.Abbott could do it.First things first; the NEG is to be resisted. THe NEG is a DOG.

    60

    • #
      ColA

      The RET is the DOBERMAN the NEG is a poor cousin schnauzer!

      20

      • #
        Another Ian

        Remember that question of yesteryear:-

        “What is the difference between a rottweiler and a social worker?”

        “You have a chance of getting your child back from a rottweiler”.

        Seems like dogs are being maligned by referring to RET and NEG as dogs.

        30

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      The Nazis in Germany were super successful in what they did, as they totally controlled all the media. ( That and the SS were busy murdering dissenters in the streets…)

      But the primary thing was the control of all communications and media.

      Its no surprise that the gummint wants all control of media and seems to have implemented the NBN for easier surveillance of everyone. Ignore history at our peril.

      It is what it is….

      40

  • #
    PeterS

    Dear Australia, would you rather have $8,500 or a 0.0001C cooler climate for your 130th Birthday?

    Neither. I would rather the farmers get the money and more.

    60

  • #
    Graham Richards

    There’s another aspect of the Paris Accord nobody wants to even mention…the implementation of the carbon tax on petrol & diesel. If this NEG thingy goes thru be prepared for the next shock.
    The tax on our fuels has no doubt already been engineered with the compliance of the oil companies. It just a matter of springing it on the unsuspecting public. If Turnbull survives this current period the fuel tax will be be implemented. If he loses the next General election the ALP will gladly do it because that’s what Turnbull put in place. The ALP will also happily use the UN construct on immigration to open up our borders once again. That UN agreement had a lot of input from Turnbull! I’ve been saying for the last 2 years not to take your eyes off Turnbull because he really wants to open our borders again. Any more proof required?
    The fuel tax is a lot closer than you think. Mr Abbott do your job NOW.

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    • #
      C. Paul Barreira

      There’s another aspect of the Paris Accord nobody wants to even mention . . .

      Try agriculture, for one. That will affect people’s diet, although government may get away with it, particularly if there’s insufficient electricity with which to cook in the early evening.

      40

      • #
        Another Ian

        Maybe they’ve got the wrong end of the telescope on agriculture too.


        August 8, 2018
        Kate
        Unsettled Science 33 Comments

        Rogue Health;

        The country with the world’s highest meat consumption appears to be Hong Kong, according to the National Geographic. (Although Hong Kong isn’t a self-governing nation, but an administrative district.)

        […]

        Hong Kong is also number three in the world in per capita beef consumption, so their meat isn’t just chicken or seafood.

        Together with China and Macao, Hong Kong is fourth in the world in per capita pork consumption.

        If our health authorities are right, then people in Hong Kong should be dropping like flies from heart disease and cancer.

        But they’re not.”

        http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2018/08/08/the-sound-of-settled-science-19/

        20

  • #
    RickWill

    Removing transfer payments and the RET are not sufficient to reach the 2007 wholesale electricity price. There is a requirement to remove the priority market access that intermittent generators now enjoy.

    No intermittent producer should be scheduled if it impinges adversely on the economics of generation from low cost coal generators. The linked paper explains why zero marginal cost intermittent generation to the grid does not result in the lowest cost wholesale price:
    https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/68c2/7678b2f23bff46c78da0c11f455874268899.pdf
    The key understanding is that there is a cost involved in ramping and shutting down or idling coal generators. That means that the electricity cost will be lower if the intermittent generation is curtailed despite it being supplied at zero marginal cost.

    Intermittent generation should only be scheduled if it is reducing gas consumption or saving perched water in a hydro system.

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Renewables do not really have zero marginal cost generation. There is the cost of lubricants, maintenance, land rental etc. Infigen says $24 per MWh. Then there is the capital/loan repayment of around $70 per MWh.

      All that has to be done is insist that the bid price be a fixed one, and the cheapest bid gets the contract. Much of the time that means coal fired. The ‘duck’s back’ problem will have to be solved by discouraging household solar, but cheaper regular supply will reduce the demand to install, even without the Spanish approach of charging for grid disruption.

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      • #
        RickWill

        Quoting the figure per unit of output is misleading. Both the $24/MWh and $72/MWh would be based on potential output meaning unconstrained output. So the actual monthly cost will be say $$9.6M on the basis of potential output of 100,000MWh. If the output is zero then the cost will still be $9.6M. It is a fixed cost, not a marginal cost.

        If the subsidies ended then the wind generator would need to cover the $2.4M monthly maintenance cost from power produced. With the wholesale price at $60/MWh they could handle quite a deal of curtailment before their maintenance cost exceeded their revenue. Clearly there would be no return on investment but that cost is sunk and would be written off.

        20

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          RickWill:

          And insisting on set bid prices (with no extra subsidies) would kill renewables. The current system is that the bid price is merely a ranking on the gravy train. The final price is set by the last bidder, often the gas burner, so renewables get a higher price than they bid and a subsidy on top of that. When they have to bid against coal which could count on full time operation (such as when they supplied at $35-40 per MWh) then wind (and other renewables) cannot compete. If they try to undercut they will lose money and those large black birds swarming overhead will be vultures from the banks (who don’t believe in cost write offs)

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    • #
      RickWill

      I got a response from Daniel Wild acknowledging he had not considered the cost implications of priority scheduling.

      I wonder if there is any economic opportunity for unbuffered wind and solar energy if priority scheduling in removed given that the capital costs are sunk. There is potential to save gas and perched water in hydro system with wind and solar. That may prove economic given that the money has been spent.

      The question is could the income from wind on economic terms cover their operating and maintenance costs. Insurance has become a large component of operating costs for wind generators. That may prove their early demise.

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    PeterS

    The NEG is deliberately designed to guarantee only two things. One, guarantee power availability, which is good. Two, lower emissions (pointless hence bad). There is nothing in the NEG to guarantee under legislation a reduction in power prices. It’s a hope and a wish. So it’s possible to guarantee the two deliverables of availability and lower emissions by building HELE coal fired power plants. It’s also possible to achieve the same goals with more renewables, close down more coal fired plants and install massive backup batteries for high power availability. The problem with that approach is it would cost hundreds of billions of not trillions due to the cost of the large scale grid battery storage systems (much bigger than the one Tesla installed in SA) that are purchasable on the market. So one path leads to lower prices and the other to much higher prices. Guess which path big business would prefer? The higher cost one of course because it leads to much fatter profits, at least until the nation crashes and burn but like politicians most big businesses don’t look that far to the future and are only interested in short term profits.

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    • #
      glen Michel

      The media keep referring to the NEG s a trilemma. One Baron Munchhausen comes to mind!

      30

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Its a clever use of the Helegian dialectic – control both sides of the argument, have total control of the “dilemma” and make sure the outcome is always a UN-designed strait jacket for the population.

        Not only have we lost generating capacity, but the NEG creates an artificial crisis and the ability to drop it all like a bolt to the head of a steer.

        30

      • #
        Annie

        The mutant black rhino with three horns…a dangerous set of problems!

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  • #
    David Maddison

    There is no doubt that the people in the UN who promote Global Warming™ are doing it for malicious reasons, i.e. as a weapon to help destroy Western Civilisation.

    I wonder however if politicians and bureaucrats in Australia who promote this nonsense are malicious or just plain stupid.

    I suspect they are malicious because it is so hard to ignore the fact that we are not experiencing anthropogenic global warming and that the hypothesis is null.

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    • #
      PeterS

      There are lots of people who believe in even more ridiculous ideas, such as a flat earth. So it’s not beyond the realms of possibility that many sincerely believe in the CAGW story. That does not make them intentionally malicious. They simply do not know any better. They should but they don’t bother to do their own research and instead take the lazy way out and trust what the “experts” say, which is what the vast majority of the public have been doing. However, there are those who know the truth yet deliberately go around peddling the CAGW scam, and they are making big bucks as a result. They are in the minority but they are so powerful they can and do steer weak countries like Australia down the path we are going, and eventually over the cliff to suit their globalist agenda.

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    Another Ian

    I guess those electricity price projections for 2050 left this bit out?

    “I guess we can stop worrying about climate – MIT says computer predicts end of world by 2040″

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/08/13/i-guess-we-can-stop-worrying-about-climate-mit-says-computer-predicts-end-of-world-in-2040/

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  • #
    Annie

    Thanks for the link about the hay run Jo.
    My OH heard something on the radio about using the ‘environmental flow’ from the Murray to help farmers to irrigate to get winter-sown crops going but some hard-hearted greenie kook knocked back the idea. Unbelievable.

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  • #
    Just Thinkin'

    Jo,
    This is an e-mail that I have just sent to my Federal Member, Andrew Wallace.
    I have let him know that I would also be publishing it on a popular blog.
    I wonder if he could find it.

    You are doing a fantastic job.

    Well Andrew,

    It has been a while since I last contacted you.

    I certainly hope you are enjoying your last stint

    in federal parliament.

    The way you and your ilk are listening to the people

    of Australia is mind boggling.

    We have a leader who bought his party and all of

    those in it.

    Australians don’t want higher electricity prices.

    They don’t want to buy Australian products because

    they have become too expensive (I wonder what caused this?).

    They don’t want the millions of people who will NOT integrate, EVER.

    How did we reach the 25 million 20 years before we should have?

    Do we MAKE anything in Australia now? Most of our companies

    are now building stuff, that we were proud to produce here in Australia,

    in CHINA. Does this tell you something?

    I do not know if you have ever visited the AEMO web site, on a regular

    basis, but the “ruinables” (renewables for you and Chairman Mal) are

    not there, when they are needed. Their power is NOT synchronous, despatchable or constant. If SA didn’t have the interconnectors (hooked up to coal fired power stations, I might add) they would have rolling blackouts;

    or more power than they know what to do with. And, don’t talk about gas fired power stations where the cost of gas is way above the cost of coal. Check

    it out.

    As for Julie Bishop; serving two “countries” (well, the UN might as well be a country).

    I’ll have a follow-up sometime soon.

    My end comment, Mal, Julie, Josh and Christopher need to go if Malcolm Turnbulls Liberal Party is to have ANY hope at the next election. Then we can revert to the plain old Liberal Party again.

    Have a nice day and don’t forget to vote AGAINST this NEG. See, even

    these letters are NEGative.

    Cheers,

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    • #

      Kinda’ unique in history that long
      evolution to parliamentary democracy,
      to non-arbitrary rule of law for all,
      to separation of church and state, basis
      of tolerance and recognition of the value
      of the individual,… not some collectivist
      blue-print ideal, ‘thou shalt,”thou must.’

      Come your Marxist Post-Modernist promotion
      of school of resentment politicks, wolf in
      sheep’s guise group connsensuss pressuring
      by Alinskyite enemies of free speech and
      non-fiat rule of law for all,of slogan
      propaganda,(Rules for Radicals Number 9)
      -critical debate’s taboo. Agenda 21
      educayshun, hmmm, straight out of ’1984′
      ‘Animal Farm’ and Go*bulls racial myth,
      ‘some are much more equal than others.
      (Its a globullist Brussel’s EU/UN thing.)
      Today we teeter on the cusp of loss of
      liberties hard won.
      https://ultraphyte.com/2012/12/02/lemurs-at-the-fiscal-cliff/#jp-carousel-896

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  • #
    Kinky Keith

    As Peter P said recently;
    “Jo has been on fire with recent posts”.

    This post, again, is one that affects everybody.

    Through all of the very deliberate public discussion that has only one purpose, the average citizen has little understanding of the real issues.

    The “purpose”, of course, is to confuse the population to the point that they give up trying to understand the relationship between “renewables”, power price manipulation, job losses, fake climate science and manipulative politicians.

    The heading for this post is enticing, but the actual story that comes out when you read the paper on which it is based suggests that the heading may be open to interpretation.

    Australia will be 130 years old in 2030.

    My own birthday of that number will be almost 40 years away, maybe.

    The eight and a half thousand is per family and is only the cost up to 2030, i.e. Twelve years.

    The temperature “effect” of 0.0001 C is the Temperature Mitigation IF the IPCCCCC claim of CO2 involvement in Global Warming is true.

    It is not. Neither human origin CO2 nor natural CO2 can cause Global Warming.

    I am eagerly awaiting the results of today’s liberal parti meeting.

    I Hope.

    Go T, go Fr, go Bishop. Just Go.

    KK

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    pat

    RobK have cut to the chase -

    $52bn is chicken feed compared to the REAL cost. this is what needs to be emphasised, quantified, and somehow brought to the attention of the public. not easy given the state of our CAGW-infested FakeNewsMSM, with few exceptions:

    14 Aug: news.com.au: Businesses back National Energy Guarantee ahead of crucial party room vote
    BUSINESSES have had enough of this decision that has already cost Australia crucial investment, money and stability.
    by Charis Chang with AAP
    Some of the country’s largest energy users, including BHP, Alcoa, BlueScope and Tomago Aluminium, have released a joint statement calling for parliamentarians both at state and federal level to implement the National Energy Guarantee, “without further delay this week”.
    Released overnight with the Business Council of Australia, the statement said energy policy uncertainty over the past 10 years had stalled investment, ***driven up electricity prices and resulted in a less stable and reliable energy system…

    It noted that not approving the policy this week would put Australia at risk of volatile electricity prices, inadequate investment in new generation and a less competitive environment for Australian businesses.
    The statement was endorsed by Alcoa, BHP, BlueScope, JBS Australia, Rio Tinto, Shell Australia, Tomago Aluminium and the Business Council of Australia.
    Other businesses groups have also previously endorsed the policy, including the National Farmers’ Federation, Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, Australian Industry Group, Council of Small Business Organisations, Australian Petroleum Production and Exploration Association and the Australian Energy Council…

    ***But a key coalition backbench committee on Monday night reportedly endorsed the government policies by a clear majority, according to Fairfax.
    About 30 backbenchers attended the meeting and 10 of them were voting members. Of those, Mr Abbott was reportedly the only one to vote against it, although two others voted to keep discussing it. Seven voted in favour…

    Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has been spruiking the National Energy Guarantee as a policy that will deliver ***cheaper, more reliable power while lowering carbon emissions…
    https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/businesses-back-national-energy-guarantee-ahead-of-crucial-party-room-vote/news-story/676695a66c33952fc3f24e940083f489

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  • #
    pat

    ***theirABC’s idea of a “debate”!

    13 Aug: ABC 7.30 Report: Coalition ***debates the National Energy Guarantee
    (OPENS)JOHN HOWARD, LIBERAL MP: We do need to have an emissions trading system in this country.
    KEVIN RUDD, LABOR MP: A carbon pollution reduction scheme, is the most effective and least expensive way of acting on climate change….

    (MIDDLE) BEN OQUIST, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AUSTRALIA INSTITUTE: I think it’s very difficult for the government to pass the legislation through the parliament overall, if they are just trying to deal with the crossbench. The crossbench in the Senate is made up of mostly climate sceptics. They need eight of ten of the Senate cross benching them, the majority of that crossbench, is clearly climate sceptics…

    (ENDS) MARK BUTLER: Well I think, Tony Abbott is playing, frankly a bit of a wrecking role in these negotiations and I think it’s time for Malcolm Turnbull to recognise, that if he’s got any chance of landing an energy policy that has broad political and industry support, he has to stop cow[inaudible] to Tony Abbott and Barnaby Joyce.
    http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/coalition-debates-the-national-energy-guarantee/10115920

    13 Aug: ABC 7.30 Report: Tony Abbott says Coalition’s NEG is ‘very poor policy’
    LEIGH SALES: But, the whole point of legislation, is that it provides certainty for industry and business. That’s why there are penalties for non-compliance. And certainty is what the business sector and the energy sector has been crying out for?…

    LEIGH SALES: One could argue the exact opposite, but if we tackled these things in say back in, you know 2009 when an Emissions Trading Scheme was on the table, perhaps we would already be on a path to having a more secure and ***cheaper power supply?…

    LEIGH SALES: This energy plan has the support of everybody from the Council of Social Services to the Business Council of Australia, to farmers, to miners, to the clean Energy Council. Are all of them wrong?…

    LEIGH SALES: Is it fair to say, you are the country’s most effective ****Opposition Leader?…
    http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/tony-abbott-says-coalitions-neg-is-very-poor-policy/10115926

    ****Shireen Khalil must have taken her cue from Leigh Sales, when she called Tony Abbott “Opposition leader” three times in her piece posted in jo’s “Weekend Unthreaded” thread, comment #67).

    10

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      G’day Pat,
      I was about to post that same link when I found yours. I was most impressed with the way Tony A handled the interview with Leigh Sales (who was as belligerent as ever). He remained polite, but refused to allow her to talk him down and finished his answer before answering her interrupting question.
      The segment starts at 9mins 30 and Tony’s bit at 14mins 46. He nominated two issues which he then addressed. I commend it for everyone.
      Cheers,
      Dave B

      40

    • #
      angry

      It does not have the support of the poor taxpayers who cannot afford the electricoty prices we currently have !

      20

  • #
    Mark M

    There will be no new coal-fired power stations built in Australia before 2030, if ever again.

    Turnbull wont. Shorten obviously not., nor anyone of either stripe to follow.

    From 2017: Forget what you’ve heard about coal. Electricity prices are going up regardless -

    https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/forget-what-youve-heard-about-coal-electricity-prices-are-going-up-regardless-20170221-guht7s.html

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  • #
    Greg in NZ

    Baa humbug – our fearless warrior princess PM Ché Jacinta [sic], Holy Mother of God Gaia, has banned free plastic shopping bags (to be replaced by larger and thicker and more expensive plastic bags) AND introduced a value-added excise tax on everybody’s petrol / diesel – and just like that (!) Earth has returned to its original pristine Eden-esque paradise; you fellas over there don’t need to do a theeng, really, we’ve done it all for you . . . /sock/sarc/suck

    The good folk of Lesotho and South Africa are already enjoying the benefits of this ‘climate restoration’ as we speak – http://snowreport.co.za/facebook/ – lots of lovely pics of last weekend’s frigid snow blizzard which buried the highveld and passes. We too, in Noddy Zooland, are now being hammered blessed with the frigid snow blizzard – https://www.metservice.com/skifields/whakapapa – which blasted your Australian Alps a mere few days ago. Almost a metre of new snow expected on an already two metre-deep base with -12˚C wind chills… Holocene? Anthropocene? Winter Scene!

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    • #
      Dennis

      To counter the Snowy Mountains weather conditions their ABC today published a story about all the hard work behind the scenes using snow making machinery.

      Yes they are seriously deluded.

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    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Um….is there anyone still living in SA? All the farms are being stolen and the economy will collapse in due course….I suspect there are a lot of south africans in WA these days…. is Perth the new Jo-berg?

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  • #
    David Maddison

    If a new coal power station were built, I know it won’t, this is just a thought experiment, would electricity prices drop under the current regime?

    20

  • #
    pat

    interview with IPA’s Daniel Wild. only quibble -

    at 5mins25secs: Daniel Wild on trilemma – Govt, with the NEG, is favouring reliability over emissions reduction by 100 to 1.

    didn’t he mean to say: “Govt…is favouring emissions reduction over reliability by 100 to 1″?

    AUDIO: 14mins21secs: 14 Aug: 2GB: Michael McLaren: ‘There is no environmental benefit’: National Energy Guarantee to face hostile Coalition backbench today
    Now The Institute of Public Affairs has thrown their two cents worth into the debate, saying government needs to dump the NEG immediately.
    “Implementing the Paris requirements would impose a $52 billion economic hit to our economy,” says Daniel Wild.
    “That’s $8,000 per family and comes at a time when wages are stagnant and the cost of living is rising. It’s an economic hit that comes without any discernible environmental benefit offset.”

    “If energy retailers don’t meet their emission reduction requirement under the NEG, they face a tax or fine of up to $100 million. Whereas if they don’t meet their reliability requirements, their fine can be as little as $1 million. The heavy emphasis is forcing the market to go lower emissions. There is no penalty associated with higher prices.”…

    Michael McLaren also cannot see the merit of the policy. He says it’s hypocritical for Australia to send off our resource abundance for export dollars, whilst simultaneously not encouraging locals to use it here.
    “How on earth is it the case that Australia, with 7% of the world’s black coal, 24% of its brown coal, 257 trillion cubic feet of gas and 34% of the world’s uranium, how have we got some of the highest power prices in the world, despite that illustrious bounty we can tap into?”
    “If we stopped all emissions tomorrow, Mother Nature wouldn’t know the difference,” he says.
    ” So why the hell are we transforming our national energy grid?”
    https://www.2gb.com/podcast/there-is-no-environmental-benefit-national-energy-guarantee-to-face-hostile-coalition-backbench-today/

    following is the only other piece on the IPA/Daniel Wild report found online in searches today:

    VIDEO: 1min06secs: Facebook: Peter Credlin
    Daniel Wild discusses his report which estimates the Paris Agreement emissions targets will impose a $52 billion economic cost.
    ‘This equates to $8,000 per family, this comes at a time when wages are stagnant.’
    https://www.facebook.com/PetaCredlin/videos/239251239963256/

    where is the ABC/Fairfax/Guardian coverage?

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  • #
    pat

    o/t but the other big story of the day provides another opportunity for theirABC to attack President Trump, by cherry-picking the most negative lines from Reuters and AP.

    note what’s NOT on this ABC page. NOT ONCE IS THE US PRESIDENT CALLED “PRESIDENT TRUMP”. NOT ONCE.

    $1BN-PLUS OF TAXPAYER MONEY GOES TO THIS OFFENSIVE CORPORATION EVERY SINGLE YEAR AND THERE IS NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT? C’MON.

    14 Aug: ABC Trump’s America: Reuters/AP: FBI agent Peter Strzok fired in the wake of anti-Trump text messages
    (ENDS WITH) He (Strzok) repeatedly insisted the texts, including ones in which he called Mr Trump a “disaster” and said “We’ll stop” a Trump candidacy, did not reflect political bias and had not infected his work.
    An internal Justice Department report issued in June blamed Mr Strzok and Ms Page for creating an appearance of impropriety through their texts but found the outcome of the Clinton investigation was not marred by bias.
    Ms Clinton was cleared in the probe.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-14/fbi-agent-peter-strzok-fired-after-anti-trump-text-messages/10117056

    FURTHER “TRUMP” STORIES IN RIGHT COLUMN:

    If Americans think Trump was unpatriotic with Putin, it could hurt him
    ‘I am just a sacrificial lamb’: Carter Page defensive over Trump campaign and Russia
    The Trump-Kim agreement is not a touchdown — and the President knows it
    Analysis: Amid the speed and chaos of the White House, a pattern is emerging
    Opinion: But Mr Trump, their children are being shot
    Here are all the people who’ve quit or been sacked from Team Trump
    Pax Americana is dead. We have entered a post-American world
    Opinion: Can Trump pardon himself? Let’s take a look at the US constitution
    Trump’s obsession with Hillary Clinton is a sign of a deeper problem

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    • #
      pat

      13 Aug: Judicial Watch: Judicial Watch Statement on Firing of Peter Strzok
      Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton made the following statement regarding reports that FBI Special Agent Peter Strzok was fired:
      “The firing of Peter Strzok is another body blow to the credibility of the Mueller special counsel operation. Strzok, who hated President Trump, compromised both the Clinton and Trump investigations that saw Hillary Clinton protected and Donald Trump illicitly targeted. Strzok’s anti-Trump texts show the Russia investigation he helped invent with Clinton campaign operatives is irredeemably compromised. As Mueller’s operation is founded on Strzok’s corrupt activities, it must be shut down”…

      Strzok oversaw the FBI’s interviews of former National Security Adviser General Michael Flynn. He changed former FBI Director James Comey’s language about Hillary Clinton’s actions regarding her illicit email server from “grossly negligent” to “extremely careless.” He also played a lead role in the FBI’s interview of Clinton and is suspected of being responsible for using the unverified dossier to obtain a FISA warrant in order to spy on President Trump’s campaign.

      On May 21, U.S. District Court Judge Reggie B. Walton ordered the FBI to begin processing 13,000 pages of previously undisclosed emails exchanged exclusively between FBI officials Strzok and Page between February 1, 2015, and December 2017.
      https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-statement-on-firing-of-peter-strzok/

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    philthegeek

    The biggest obvious and easy win for conservatives in 2019 is to copy Abbott-Trump-Dean proven successes,

    Please please please let these wise words be deeply ingrained in every “conservative” mind in Australia as the true received wisdom that will determine the 2019 election outcome. :)

    you know it makes sense.

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    PeterS

    It’s a lot worse than I thought. The NEG will guarantee less not more dispatchable power according to Craig Kelly on 2GB. The NEG is also a mandate under law to meet the Paris targets in reducing our emissions. In other words it’s an official economic suicide note as distinct from an unofficial one. Those who support the NEG in the party room today are nation destroyers.

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      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      That’s one of the points Tony Abbott quite forcibly on the ABC’s 7:30 report last night.
      (Pat provides the link at #29 above.)
      Dave B

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      • #
        PeterS

        If he really believes all that he has to resign and bring the government to account. I hope he and others do so as a last resort some time in the near future if they fail to remove Turnbull. Otherwise, he and the rest are hypocrites and will allow Shorten to be our next PM, which will of course be terminal.

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    • #
      Geoffrey Williams

      It’s a black day indeed. One day Turnbull and his government will be held to account.
      Personally I wouldn’t vote thus government if my life depended on it.
      GeoffW

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      • #
        PeterS

        Any voter who rewarded him last time for backstabbing Abbott is a complete betrayal of everything the Liberals used to represent. A vote for his party next time is even worse. Just don’t vote for either major party – they simply do not deserve to govern the nation under their current leaders. Of course there will be a lot of fools, clueless and brain dead people who will vote for them no matter what so over the cliff we will go. There is a possible way out but time will tell if those few remaining in the LNP who don’t have a death wish for the nation will do the obvious and resign when the time comes. It’s time to smash both major parties and call upon all sensible people who want Australia to avoid a crash and burn to stop voting for LNP, ALP and Greens and vote for the others.

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          Geoffrey Williams

          Totally agree . .

          20

        • #
          angry

          Request a postal vote and take the time to number every square, putting all the major parties LAST.

          No more flip flopping between dumb (coalition) and dumber (alp/greens) !!

          30

          • #
            Graeme No.3

            angry:

            I have no trouble numbering every square in the voting booth. The trick is to count the number of candidates (usually available in the media days before) then number the worst choice last, the second worst choice next etc.
            In the case of the Greens whom I always put last, I vote ‘down the list’ i.e. if there are 54 standing the head of the Greens list will be 54, their second nutter 53, then their next 52 etc. This makes absolutely sure that they never benefit.
            Above the Greens I usually put the NAZI party (or equivalent) and work my way up through the delusional, the crazies and those single idea parties (whom I don’t agree with) until I get to those who could get into power. It is amazing how quickly the choice reduces to “who will do the least damage?’

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    pat

    13 Aug: Weekly Standard: Breaking the Climate Spell
    by Rupert Darwall
    (Rupert Darwall is the author of Green Tyranny: Exposing the Totalitarian Roots of the Climate Industrial Complex)
    Getting out of the Paris Agreement was just the first step on the road to a realist global energy policy…
    This is about far more than process. Trump is breaking the spell of inevitability of the transition to renewable energy. The impression of irresistible momentum has been one of the most potent tools in enforcing compliance with the climate catechism. Like socialism, the clean-energy transition will fail because it doesn’t work. But it requires strong leadership to avoid the ruin that will disprove the false promise of cost-free decarbonization…

    When it comes to the politics of energy, the interests of the United States and European green ideology are irreconcilable.
    Donald Trump understands this. “Our country is blessed with extraordinary energy abundance, which we didn’t know of even 5 years ago and certainly 10 years ago,” the president said in 2017. Those remarks were not only a paean to America’s energy resources, they were a full-dress rejection of the policies of his predecessor and of the Democrats’ goal of Europeanizing American energy policy…

    Denying the world’s poor cheap electricity is the official policy of the World Bank. In 2012, Barack Obama agreed to the appointment of Jim Yong Kim as president of the World Bank, and the next year, the bank stopped the financing of coal-fired generation…
    As it is, China is the biggest winner from the World Bank’s energy policies. A June 2017 World Bank report notes China’s “global dominance” in the supply of materials needed by renewable energy technologies…

    The Trump administration should now formalize its ties with other energy-realistic nations and show the world the benefits of America’s energy exceptionalism—jobs at home, booming exports, and an escape from dismal energy policies predicated on bogus resource shortages. Having broken the spell, America and its friends around the world can reap the benefits.
    https://www.weeklystandard.com/rupert-darwall/breaking-the-climate-spell

    30

  • #
    pat

    the writer loves solar; wants more. read all if u want details of Swiss Re’s Solar Panel Code of Practice:

    7 Aug: EcoBusiness: Jay Li: Will today’s solar panels last 25 years?
    (Jay is Head of China Engineering Underwriting at Swiss Re, responsible for the engineering business of both treaty and facultative for the China region)
    Guaranteeing solar panels over a long period presents an emerging problem for the insurance industry and those who own renewable energy resources. How can we ensure solar assets will be protected into the future?
    One key concern is risk ownership: who will honour a warranty in the event a panel fails two decades down the road? Long warranties are especially critical for photovoltaic lenders and investors, as such technology requires a long pay-back period. Providing this kind of warranty can constitute a massive financial concern if proper evaluation and risk management is not done at the onset.

    This challenge facing underwriters is exacerbated by the fact that solar panel manufacturing is a nascent industry. With most solar installations being less than 10 years old, there is a lack of historical data, which is needed to understand the risk. At best, the widely-accepted certifications (IEC61215 and IEC61730) provide only a minimum baseline. Without comprehensive reliability standards, underwriters cannot properly assess the dependability of solar panels.
    The continual development of solar panel technology also leads to frequent changes in materials, manufacturing processes, and the evolution of solar cells (also known as the “heart” of solar panels), all of which affects an underwriter’s assessment.

    In 2013, the Dutch Food and Consumer Product Safety Authority declared that 650,000 solar panels supplied by a manufacturer over three years (2009 to 2012) were a fire risk. These panels were installed throughout Europe and resulted in multiple fires. This serves as a cautionary tale about the potential financial loss and how risk accumulation can adversely affect solar panel insurers. As it is, a 25-year insurance cover also brings with it hefty administrative costs, such as costs for data storage over time with the Bureau of Meteorology and serial number tracking for every piece of equipment…

    Furthermore, solar panels are installed in vastly different operating conditions, ranging from the scorching deserts of Africa to the freezing rooftops of Arizona, with very different standards of maintenance in each location…

    Recognising the market gap and challenges that underwriters face in evaluating risk and exposure, reinsurance firm Swiss Re has consulted and collaborated with solar photovoltaic research institutions to develop the Solar Panel Code of Practice (SPCoP)…

    Underwriters must find a way to efficiently manage risks over the extended period of uncertainty that solar panels require.
    http://www.eco-business.com/opinion/will-todays-solar-panels-last-25-years/

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    pat

    6 Aug: Daily Caller: Chris White: Solar Panels Catch Fire In Holland, Nearly Destroy An Entire Apartment Complex
    Firefighters were called to a small village in the Netherlands on Aug. 3 after smoke had been detected on a roof. Heat from the sun’s rays likely “overloaded” the solar panels, causing “enormous” damage, according (LINK) to a local news report. Nobody was injured.
    Fumes from solar panel fires could create toxic conditions for firefighters, researchers claim…

    video doesn’t work at Daily Caller, watch it here:
    https://0297.nl/nieuws/72555/drie-woningen-verwoest-door-brand-na-oververhitte-zonnepanelen-vinkeveen

    2013: Phys.org: Dutch roof fire warning for 650,000 solar panels
    Hundreds of thousands of solar panels are at risk of setting roofs on fire because of an electrical fault, Dutch authorities and media warned Tuesday, with 15 roof fires already reported in Europe.
    Now-bankrupt Scheuten Solar Systems has reportedly sold at least 650,000 of its “Multisol” panels in Europe and 15,000 in the Netherlands.
    “These solar panels have a faulty electrical connection which constitutes a fire hazard,” the Dutch Food and Goods Authority (NVWA) said in a statement…
    The problem is with the connection between the panel and a junction box at the back which could cause an electrical spark, damaging the box and causing it to smoulder…

    Scheuten allegedly knew about the fire risk as far back as 2010, De Volkskrant said, quoting company documents, but only began taking action last year after two fires broke out in France.
    Based in the southeastern city of Venlo, Scheuten Solar Systems went bankrupt last year and since then at least 1,000 damage claims have been lodged with the company’s receiver, the paper said.

    The fire hazard can be neutralised by repairing or replacing the junction box, the paper said. However, the NVWA warned that “at this moment there’s no good way of fixing it,” and urged users to have the panel disconnected by professionals…
    https://phys.org/news/2013-02-dutch-roof-solar-panels.html

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      pat

      also from 2013: NYT piece is behind paywall:

      2013: OpinionArlington: Solar Industry Anxious over Defective Panels
      The following is a summary by the NCPA of Todd Woody’s “Solar Industry Anxious over Defective Panels,” from the New York Times, May 28, 2013.
      The $77 billion solar industry is facing a quality crisis just as solar panels are on the verge of widespread adoption, says the New York Times.

      No one is sure how pervasive the problem is. There are no industry-wide figures about defective solar panels. And when defects are discovered, confidentiality agreements often keep the manufacturer’s identity secret, making accountability in the industry all the more difficult…
      Most of the concerns over quality center on China…

      All solar panels degrade and gradually generate less electricity over time.
      •But a review of 30,000 installations in Europe by the German solar monitoring firm Meteocontrol found 80 percent were underperforming.
      •Testing of six manufacturers’ solar panels at two Spanish power plants by Enertis Solar in 2010 found defect rates as high as 34.5 percent.
      •First Solar, one of the United States’ biggest manufacturers, has set aside $271.2 million to cover the costs of replacing defective modules it made in 2008 and 2009.
      http://www.opinionarlington.com/?p=3225

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  • #
    pat

    not being reported by FakeNewsMSM:

    8 Aug: LegalNewsline: Consumers allege Sanyo solar panels have defects that cause loss of power output, fire risk
    By Noddy A. Fernandez
    SAN FRANCISCO – Consumers have filed a class-action lawsuit against manufacturing companies over allegations they failed to disclose purported defects in Sanyo solar photovoltaic panels.
    Myra Dickert and Howard Dickert, on behalf of themselves and all others similarly situated, filed a complaint on Aug. 2 in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California against Sanyo Energy (U.S.A.) Corp., Sanyo North America Corp., Panasonic Corp. of North America and Does 1-20 citing allege violation of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act and Song-Beverly Consumer Warranty Act.

    According to the complaint, the plaintiffs purchased defendants’ solar photovoltaic panel models and allege the products are defective as the panels progressively lose actual power output and to fail, resulting in power output degradation.
    The plaintiffs claim defendants have long been aware of the defects but has allegedly failed to disclose the defects to purchasers before and after awareness of them. As a result, the panels’ defects allegedly causes serious safety risks, including the risk of fire…

    The plaintiffs request a trial by jury and seek compensatory damages, injunction relief, costs, attorneys’ fees, and for such further legal or equitable relief as the court may deem appropriate. They are represented by David M. Birka-White and Steven T. Knuppel of Birka-White Law Offices in Danville, California; John D. Green of Farella Braun & Martel LLP in San Francisco; and Charles E. Schaffer of Levin, Sedran & Berman in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
    U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California case number 5:18-cv-04664-NC.
    https://legalnewsline.com/stories/511524419-consumers-allege-sanyo-solar-panels-have-defects-that-cause-loss-of-power-output-fire-risk

    2 Aug: PacerMonitor: Myra Dickert et al v. Sanyo Energy (U.S.A.) Corporation et al
    https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/25256247/Myra_Dickert_et_al_v_Sanyo_Energy_USA_Corporation_et_al

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  • #
    pat

    27 Jul: NewsTimes: Possible storm damage could have sparked Danbury roof-top solar panel fire
    By Zach Murdock
    Image 1 of 7: A roof-top solar panel array caught fire Thursday evening in southern Danbury, sending plumes of thick black smoke into the air that were visible for miles.
    But property manager Stuart Longman suggested high winds during storms this week could have damaged one of the 3,500 individual panels on top of 100,000-square-foot warehouse.
    “The storms were very violent and there were some severe winds and it’s possible that the wind could have pushed one of the panels down on the racking which might have created an arc, but I’m speculating right now,” he said. “The system was in perfect shape, operating perfectly a few days ago, and the storms are all that’s happened since.”…
    Only about 20 panels were damaged by the time the fire was contained…

    Danbury Fire’s new drone helped knock the fire down quickly, Gagliardo added. The drone hovered above the building to give firefighters a better view and its thermal imaging camera helped contain the fire faster, he said.
    The array is shut off for now while crews assess the damage and work to remove the damaged panels, Longman said…

    Some of the panels on the roof at 2 Great Pasture date back nearly a decade to when Longman received a $2.6 million federal stimulus grant to continue installing solar panels on buildings around the area.
    That predates newer requirements that prevent arcing and require a system to shut down instantly if one is detected, said Dwayne Escola, a partner in the Ridgefield-based Northeast Smart Energy.

    “If it were (direct current) wires, those are the ones up on the roof, and they were abrased somehow, it potentially can cause a fire,” he said. “It’s extremely rare. There was one big one, a fire in Bakersfield, California, that caused some of these changes.”
    But businesses or homeowners with solar panels on their properties likely do not need to worry about their systems after the storm, leaders of Ross Solar and ConEdison Solutions said…
    https://www.newstimes.com/local/article/Roof-top-solar-panels-catch-fire-on-southern-13110465.php

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    pat

    David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz posted the link for the following, which has now been updated, so will post it again:

    14 Aug: ABC: National Energy Guarantee endorsed by Coalition party room despite backbench concern
    By political correspondent Louise Yaxley
    Updated 49 minutes ago
    PHOTO: Photo: The PM and Energy Minister argue the NEG will be ***kinder to hip pockets and reduce emissions
    PM Malcolm Turnbull said it meant the nation was “one step closer to ***cheaper and more reliable energy”.
    The meeting lasted for almost two-and-a-half hours and has been described as “testy”…

    He (Abbott) and three colleagues — Andrew Hastie, George Christensen and Eric Abetz — have reserved their position on the legislation, meaning they could cross the floor to vote against it.
    After the meeting, Mr Abbott issued a statement that said most of the explanations of how the NEG “might theoretically get prices down” sounded “like merchant bankers’ gobbledegook”.
    He acknowledged that there was support for the plan but said much of it was conditional.
    “Yes there were lots of pleas for unity, but as one MP said: ‘We’ve got to be loyal to our electorates and to party members too and not show the unity of lemmings.’,” Mr Abbott said.
    He said at least a dozen members of the Coalition expressed serious concerns about the NEG or the Paris targets, although it is understood the number of dissidents is disputed by others in the party room.

    Senator Abetz is understood to be concerned that only a two-page document was provided to explain the detail of the way the NEG would work.
    Liberal backbencher Tony Pasin said he could not support a NEG without a price target.
    He said the NEG focused on reliability and emissions reduction rather than the cost of electricity.
    Mr Pasin described the assumptions in the NEG modelling about the price of power falling as “brave” and said he wanted to see a target or Government expectation that prices would fall.

    Energy Minister Josh Frydenberg said the Government had a “laser-like” focus on ***reducing power bills.
    Mr Turnbull said the concerns expressed in the party room were about cost and pledged that “everything we are doing is seeking to ***bring down energy prices”.

    Twenty-six members of the Coalition spoke in favour of the plan during this morning’s meeting and the majority of the Coalition party room has endorsed the plan, although the ABC has been told some did so with misgivings.

    Mr Turnbull is now pressuring Labor to agree to back the NEG.
    “The Labor Party has to decide whether they want to support ***cheaper and more reliable electricity,” he said…
    Mr Turnbull said Labor should back the NEG with the current target and it could argue for a higher target at the next election…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-14/national-energy-guarantee-adopted-at-coalition-partyroom-meeting/10117418

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    pat

    Facebook: Tony Abbott
    3hrs ago
    I’m not going to release my own comments to the party room, because they were along the lines of my remarks to media on the way into the parliament, but the rampant hostile briefing of journalists while the meeting was underway does require a response…READ ON
    https://www.facebook.com/TonyAbbottMP/

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    • #
      PeterS

      I heard at least four lower house MPs formally reserve their position on the legislation and at least a dozen express serious concerns about the NEG or about turning the non-binding Paris targets into law with massive penalties attached.

      They got to be kidding. The LNP want to lock the NEG to the Paris Agreement with massive penalties if we do not comply with the targets? If that’s so the LNP is throwing away our sovereignty to a bunch of foreign anti-Australian UN globalists. Turnbull and his cohorts are selling out Australia. It now makes no difference who is PM, Shorten or Turnbull. LNP is a disgrace. They are turncoats. We have been conned. Those in the LNP who support the NEG are signing the Australian suicide note. Shame on them. They are evil and there is now no way to escape that conclusion.

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      • #
        el gordo

        Yeah but what does this mean?

        “Today Malcolm Turnbull presented an energy plan that will see not a single renewable energy project built for 10 years, will see the rates of rooftop solar on Australian houses halve, and will channel potentially billions of taxpayer dollars into building new coal-fired power stations that the industry itself says are un-investable,” Mr Butler said.

        Greens leader Richard Di Natale said Mr Butler was right “when he said that this was a dud of a policy”.

        “We don’t get more renewables in the system, we lock in coal, the targets aren’t based on science,” Senator Di Natale said.

        ABC

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    lemiere jacques

    the point is this money does nothing , the amount would be acceptable for something worth it.

    then the amount of money to calculate is the one to achieve the salvation of the holly climate how much it would cost in the world per capita? and then how many capita would i pay forin addtion to my own one?

    don’t forget it is about redistribution of wealth too.

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  • #
    angry

    wtf !!

    Turnbull gains Coalition support on energy over Abbott’s objections

    https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/politics/federal/turnbull-gains-coalition-support-on-energy-over-abbott-s-objections-20180814-p4zxdb.html

    The names of these treasonous politicians must be made public !!

    TURNCOAT’S NATIONAL ENERGY GUARANTEE (NEG) IS NOTHING BUT A CARBON dioxide (PLANT FOOD TAX) !!!

    THIS POS TURNBULL IS WORSE THAN GILLARD AND RUDD !!!

    http://pickeringpost.com/story/it-will-only-be-a-little-baby-carbon-tax/8441

    IT WILL ONLY BE A LITTLE BABY CARBON TAX
    … trust me

    Time for the NO CARBON TAX RALLIES TO start again !!!!!!!!

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    • #
      PeterS

      We are being sold out buy Turnbull and most of the LNP. There is no other way to look at it. It’s now up to the ALP states to block the NEG and save Australia from the grubby evil hands of the UN. How ironic it would be to see ALP being the good guys in this fight to save Australia.

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    theRealUniverse

    On what model is that 0.0001 C based on? I didnt know they had that sort of (floating point) precision in their super computers the (fake garbage in garbage out) models run on. (SARC).

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  • #
    Michael Spencer

    The sheer stupidity of trying to ban “carbon [sic] emissions” (by which gullible people a fooled into believing that carbon dioxide (CO2), a colourless trace gas that we all breathe out and which “greens” the planet because plants love it!) is a pollutant reveals almost incredible stupidity, certainly for anyone who has put in the slightest “homework’ on the climate question.

    That atmospheric CO2 levels FOLLOW temperature (and NOT the other way around, as promoted by alarmists!); that it’s impact on the narrow light spectrum is LOGARITHMIC – meaning that any further atmospheric increase effect is TRIVIAL: these two points alone show the sheer stupidity of the “Global Warming/Climate Change” FRAUD!

    That we now see our electricity system being moved from the World’s cheapest to becoming the World’s dearest – and increasingly unreliable – thereby making the poor suffer and our industries (and jobs) go elsewhere points up the ideological STUPIDITY of those who ‘believe’ in this quasi-religious pseudo-science.

    All that is being achieved is that the “Gravy Train” rolls on to the benefit of a few charlatans and opportunists! And then there are the gullible politicians who have not, and refuse to, check up on the facts.

    George Orwell would have loved this when he wrote “1984″!

    Lots to check out here: http://galileomovement.com.au/media/ShouldYouReallyBeAlarmed.pdf!

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  • #

    We know the drill by now…

    “I remember when this was a serious scientific site, and I’ve belonged for so long that I’m the very first mosomoso – so no number! – and there used to be educated commenters – from overseas! – and now it’s just this sad old place for a few aging right-wingers to lurk and grumble all the time about Turnbull…”

    Yep. We know that drill. The GetUppers and luvvies really really want us to stop talking about giving Turnbull the rissole well in advance of that Shorten victory they can almost taste.

    But I see it’s not working. Lots of references to Turnbull and Frydenberg on this post. You’ll pardon me if I don’t count them all…but it’s good. Keep ‘em coming. We really need to bestow the order of the sandshoe on these globalist white ants.

    Proud of you guys.

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    • #
      Annie

      I’m pretty upset but not overly surprised by this.
      I reiterate what Mosomoso says:
      Turnbull, Bishop and Frydenberg…just go, for the sake of this country’s survival in any sort of civilised form.
      So sorry to bore you GeeAye (not).

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      • #
        TdeF

        It’s because science is not the question. Nothing decided at today’s meeting of Turnbull’s Liberals™ was about science. It reminded me of the battles Churchill had to convince his own party that the German Socialist Party were building a huge airfleet for war but in pieces at different locations, that Hitler was a threat. You had Chamberlain trying to appease and even the Royal family thinking they were Germans and not so different. The threat to Australia and our way of life has never been so great and the leader is the pretend conservative Turnbull, who is nothing of the sort.

        There is no science in man made Global Warming. A vague correlation supported by an allegation disproven by the lack of warming and the complete lack of fossil fuel CO2 in the air, the bunch of lawyers who are in parliament could care less.

        However we have four or five good people who will cross the floor against the NEG. That’s enough. The only fear is that Bill Shorten will support it as textbook Labour/Green alliance policy anyway. His problem is that his image would suffer, as would Turnbull’s and that would let Abbott in. Turnbull nearly handed him victory on a platter last time. The last thing Shorten wants is to face Abbott.

        I could not get over how Turnbull sulked after winning the election, would not come out, thanked no one and attacked everyone. Having failed to get his Green alliance, he was really upset at winning. A lot of work to end up having to hide behind Abbott’s policies after all. Now as the man who did nothing, he is trying to bring in his Emissions Trading Scheme for his friends in high places.

        Strangely, it is probably his handing over of $444million to his friends without request, without tender, without any explanation that will be his undoing, once Shorten gets going. The Turnbull’s have finally shown why they want to get rid of British Royalty. They want to run the place as they choose, their birthright. And that of their friends.

        The NEG will not get up. Turnbull will lose and resign. He will leave the mess to others. The Liberal and National parties are wrecks. Joyce has crumbled, again. Tunrbull has paved the way to the lodge for Labor, paved in 7 1/2 tons of gold bricks, a true Labor hero.

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    ren

    How to stop CO2 production during the solar minimum? Can not. What’s more, this CO2 will cool the troposphere!
    Carbon-14 is produced in the upper layers of the troposphere and the stratosphere by thermal neutrons absorbed by nitrogen atoms. When cosmic rays enter the atmosphere, they undergo various transformations, including the production of neutrons. The resulting neutrons (1n) participate in the following reaction:

    n + 14/7N→ 14/6C + p
    The highest rate of carbon-14 production takes place at altitudes of 9 to 15 km (30,000 to 49,000 ft) and at high geomagnetic latitudes.

    The rate of 14C production can be modelled[12] [13] and is between 16,400 and 18,800 atoms 14C m^−2 s^−1, which agrees with the global carbon budget that can be used to backtrack, but attempts to directly measure the production rate in situ were not very successful. Production rates vary because of changes to the cosmic ray flux caused by the heliospheric modulation (solar wind and solar magnetic field), and due to variations in the Earth’s magnetic field.

    “The highest rate of carbon-14 production takes place at altitudes of 9 to 15 km (30,000 to 49,000 ft) and at high geomagnetic latitudes.”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon-14

    You make a big mistake by not appreciating the role of the stratosphere in climate change. The increase in GCR causes an increase in ionization in the lower stratosphere, depending on the geomagnetic field. This leads to a local temperature increase in the lower stratosphere at high latitudes. It will increase stratospheric intrusions in winter and spring periods.
    “Stratospheric Intrusions are when stratospheric air dynamically decends into the troposphere and may reach the surface, bringing with it high concentrations of ozone which may be harmful to some people. Stratospheric Intrusions are identified by very low tropopause heights, low heights of the 2 potential vorticity unit (PVU) surface, very low relative and specific humidity concentrations, and high concentrations of ozone. Stratospheric Intrusions commonly follow strong cold fronts and can extend across multiple states. In satellite imagery, Stratospheric Intrusions are identified by very low moisture levels in the water vapor channels (6.2, 6.5, and 6.9 micron). Along with the dry air, Stratospheric Intrusions bring high amounts of ozone into the tropospheric column and possibly near the surface. This may be harmful to some people with breathing impairments. Stratospheric Intrusions are more common in the winter/spring months and are more frequent during La Nina periods. Frequent or sustained occurances of Stratospheric Intrusions may decrease the air quality enough to exceed EPA guidelines.”
    http://ds.data.jma.go.jp/tcc/tcc/products/clisys/STRAT/gif/zu_sh.gif
    Total ozone in the southern hemisphere.
    https://files.tinypic.pl/i/00969/ii4m04q8lrop.png
    http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/stratosphere/strat_int/
    GCR radiation is almost at the level of 2009.
    https://cosmicrays.oulu.fi/

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    • #
      ren

      Ionization by GCR is rapidly growing from 9 km.
      http://sol.spacenvironment.net/nairas/Dose_Rates.html

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      ren

      Noctilucent clouds form when summertime wisps of water vapor rise to the top of the atmosphere and wrap themselves around specks of meteor smoke. Mesospheric winds assemble the resulting ice crystals into NLCs. In 2017 a heat wave in the mesosphere melted those crystals, causing a brief “noctilucent blackout.” Could something similar, but opposite, be happening now? Perhaps a cold spell in the mesosphere is extending the season. Another possibility is the solar cycle. Previous studies have shown that NLCs sometimes intensify during solar minimum. Solar minimum conditions are in effect now as the sun has been without spots for 30 of the past 31 days.
      LATE-SEASON SURGE IN NOCTILUCENT CLOUDS: Noctilucent clouds (NLCs) are behaving strangely. Normally, NLCs begin to dim in late July, then fade away completely as August unfolds. It is their seasonal pattern. This year, though, the night-shining clouds are surging as July comes to an end. “We had a mind-blowing display of noctilucent clouds display on July 26th,” reports Kairo Kiitsak, who sends this picture from Simuna, Estonia:
      http://www.spaceweather.com/archive.php?view=1&day=28&month=07&year=2018

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      ren

      The local increase in temperature in the lower stratosphere is responsible for the increase of water vapor in the mesosphere. Through these “holes” the water vapor escapes into the stratosphere.
      “In this study we show that correspondence of the main structures of geomagnetic field, near surface air temperature and surface pressure in the mid-latitudes, reported previously in the 1st part of the paper, has its physical foundation. The similar pattern, found in latitude-longitude distribution of the lower stratospheric ozone and specific humidity, allows us to close the chain of causal links, and to offer a mechanism through which geomagnetic field could influence on the Earth’s climate. It starts with a geomagnetic modulation of galactic cosmic rays (GCR) and ozone production in the lower stratosphere through ion-molecular reactions initiated by GCR. The alteration of the near tropopause temperature (by O3 variations at these levels) changes the amount of water vapour in the driest part of the upper troposphere/lower stratosphere (UTLS), influencing in such a way on the radiation balance of the planet. This forcing on the climatic parameters is non-uniformly distributed over the globe, due to the heterogeneous geomagnetic field controlling energetic particles entering the Earth’s atmosphere.”
      http://journals.uran.ua/geofizicheskiy/article/view/111146

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    angry

    More BS from turncoat !!!!

    Malcolm Turnbull promises power bills will be cut by $550 a year as he signs off on the National Energy Guarantee – but not everyone believes him

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6057801/Promises-power-bills-cut-550-year-Turnbull-signs-National-Energy-Guarantee.html

    turncoat is FOS (Full of S.it) !

    I want the names of those who voted for this crap !

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      PeterS

      That cut may eventually happen but probably not before our power bills have first gone up by more that amount. Abbott and his supporters better think carefully about what they will do over the next few days/weeks/months. If they don’t act seriously on this to stop Australia being bulldozed into a NEG that will destroy this nation they will have just as much blood on their hands as the rest of the mob.

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      Another Ian

      Class action against Turnbull when it doesn’t happen?

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    • #
      TdeF

      So you have to wonder at the game Turnbull is playing with his signature policy, his first. The other things like the mad gift to friends of $444Million and the $12Billion Snowy II (Abbott’s figure) and the worlds’ most useless diesel submarines($60Billion) and an obsolete NBN ($60Billion) did not require legislation.

      The National Energy Guarantee, which is nothing of the sort, has to pass

      1. the States, Victoria and Queensland Labor states
      2. the Lower house, with a one seat majority and half a dozen threatening to cross the floor
      3. the upper house with no majority at all

      Chances. Buckley’s or none.

      So what’s he playing at? Any ideas?

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      • #
        TdeF

        Or does he already have agreement with Labor? After all, this is classic Labor/Green policy like his removal of Abbott’s Direct Action to be replaced with policy from the Green handbook. So this might be a gift from a Labor/Green PM to the nominal opposition. In fact the only reason they would reject it is that they do not want a nominally conservative PM to take credit, but that may already be decided.

        Nothing he has done is Conservative. His interpretation of the word Liberal is the same as in Canada and England. Far left of centre. What we used to call Labor.

        So Malcolm is for all the world trying to gift government to Labor, as he did last time. Everyone else thinks he is trying to win the election. He will not campaign. He may even resign as the last minute. He does not intend to have policies. His tax breaks for big companies is not intended to pass either, just infuriate. Why? He only wants to win on his terms following his Green politics and failing that, he is happy for his British Great Uncle’s Labor party and the Greens to take control.

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        • #
          TdeF

          After the last election, Malcolm struck me as the dog that caught the car. Now if he lasts 3 years as Prime Minister, he will have fulfilled his early promise, his destiny. Incredibly rich, admired, successful and an heir to his famous Liberal(UK)/Labor family tradition, except that Labor would not have him. He showed them.

          Now he can go back to being a banker or travelling first class, feted around the world by friends of the UN/EU in high places. As for the country he wrecked, that is not how he sees it. You should not have elected him in the first place. If they do so again, he would accept, but he would rather leave as looks likely. His Snowy II and his NEG in place, the very Emissions Intensity which cost him the top job in 2009. Plenty to smile about.

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    Sylvia

    The Paris Agreement is NOT binding which is why India and China (both signatories) are building hundreds of coal mines to keep cheap and reliable energy for the populations.

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    pat

    scientists?

    14 Aug: Swissinfo: Zurich scientists urge state pension fund to divest from fossil fuels
    Professors and researchers from Zurich’s Federal Institute of Technology (ETH Zurich) have joined the chorus of civil society actorsexternal link calling for the Swiss state pension fund to divest from fossil fuels.
    In a letter (LINK) to Publica, one of the largest pension funds in Switzerland, 166 experts from ETH Zurich, including 128 professors, demanded it stop investing in climate-damaging companies within five years.

    Publica currently invests around 2% or CHF800 million ($807 million) of the CHF40 billion on its balance sheet in companies operating in the fossil fuel sector, the primary source of CO2 emissions.
    The letter, dated June 15, 2018 and released publicly on Tuesday, highlighted ETH Zurich experts’ concerns not only about the ecological risks of investments in high carbon-emitting industries but also about the “considerable financial” danger…

    The Paris Climate Agreementexternal link, signed by 190 countries in 2016, is expected to accelerate the development of renewable energy technologies and increase regulatory pressure on high polluting industries, which could lower demand for fossil fuels and lead to a high depreciation rate for companies in the sector, according to the letter. It called global warming “one of the biggest threats of our time” and said that a shift to a sustainable economy is both “necessary and urgent”.

    The experts called on the pension fund to limit the companies in its portfolio to those that, by 2023, align their business strategy with the goals of the Paris Climate Agreement’s target to hold the global average temperature to below two degrees Celsius above pre-industrial levels.
    This follows other calls for Swiss pension funds to stop investing in highly polluting industries…
    Publica is expected to provide an official response to the researchers’ letter this fall.
    https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/risky-investments_zurich-scientists-urge-state-pension-fund-to-divest-from-fossil-fuels/44322094

    13 Aug: ClimateChangeNews: India doesn’t report its carbon emissions clearly, so we did
    India’s carbon inventories lack clarity and up-to-date information, but a new research effort shows where its biggest challenges lie
    By Subrata Chakrabarty
    (This blog was originally published by the World Resources Institute’s Insights blog)
    India has ambitious climate change targets. However, existing inventories of its greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions don’t cover recent years and lack clarity about methodologies and data sources, hampering the design of effective climate policies.

    To fill this gap, WRI India worked with other civil society institutions to facilitate the GHG Platform India, which documents GHG emissions at a more granular level. The data is also more recent than other available offerings. We use the years 2005 to 2013 for this analysis. 2005 is the base year for India’s Paris pledges; 2013 is the most recent year for which reliable data for key economic sectors exist. The analysis will be updated as new data becomes reliable, which usually takes three to four years…

    Industrial emissions grew 8.89% annually from 2005-2013…
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2018/08/13/india-doesnt-report-carbon-emissions-clearly/

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    pat

    15 Aug: Thomson Reuters Foundation: Despite challenges, Green Climate Fund is critical to global action
    by Javier Manzanares
    (Javier Manzanares is Deputy Executive Director of the Green Climate Fund. Before joining the Fund in 2014, he served as Director and Representative of UNOPS in the MERCOSUR region, based in Argentina. This followed an international career in banking and finance)

    It has been a difficult few weeks (LINK) for the Green Climate Fund (GCF)…
    There is no hiding behind PR spin: this has been something of a setback (LINK) for the fund. But although it is a tough time, GCF’s role as a key channel for climate finance remains critical to the success of international climate action…

    Climate finance ensures that developing countries can avoid following the high-carbon development pathways of the past, and builds the resilience of their populations in the face of climate change impacts…
    GCF can channel a significant share of the $100 billion of climate finance that needs to be mobilized. And we can leverage our resources to help change the direction of global financial flows towards climate-resilient, low-emissions investments…

    Fighting climate change is the biggest challenge the world faces – and it’s hard work…
    Our next board meeting will be in Bahrain from October 17-20. Based on guidance from the board, we will manage the fund’s project pipeline to ensure maximum climate impact while at the same time balancing commitments and diversity across our results areas and between the implementing partners we fund…
    http://news.trust.org//item/20180814131809-aejsh/

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    pat

    ***if only…

    14 Aug: Daily Mail: AAP: What’s been said on the energy guarantee
    “The time for shouting at the clouds and shouting at each other is over and the time for action and implementing this policy is right now.” – Federal Treasurer Scott Morrison…

    “With its pathetic 26 per cent emissions reduction target for electricity and its refusal to develop any policies to reduce emissions in other sectors of the economy, the Turnbull government ***has effectively walked away from the Paris climate change agreement.” – Smart Energy Council chief John Grimes.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/aap/article-6057981/Whats-said-energy-guarantee.html

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  • #
    TdeF

    In the Australian this morning, the number of MPs prepared to cross the floor against the NEG is now ten.

    Tony Abbott
    Andrew Hastie
    George Christensen
    Craig Kelly
    Andrew Gee
    Kevin Andrews
    Barnaby Joyce
    Barry O’Sullivan
    Eric Abetz
    Tony Pasin

    Great!

    Apparently Malcolm Turnbull has had talks with five of these. There is the idea that Malcolm is prepared to consider inclusion of coal as an alternative but as was made clear yesterday by Education Minister Simon Birmingham, this is intentionally misleading waffle. Turnbull is only prepared to talk about ‘dispatchable power’ and according to Birmingham, this explicitly does not include coal. It is double talk or as Tony Abbott says, banker gobbledlygook.

    What I find unbelievable is that there is no science in this at all. CO2 driven Man made Global Warming is not true as it obvious to Blind Freddy from the last 20 years where CO2 growth is steady and disconnected from temperature. CO2 is not harmful emissions in any sense as CO2 is the essential, critical gas without which life on earth ceases.

    So the international drive from the UN/EU to eliminate CO2 from the atmosphere is past impossible, past factual, faux facts, faux science made up by bankers, communists(the Greens) and socialists (Communists) masquerading as environmentalism.

    Well done to those ten who without any deep science knowledge are not convinced by the complete lack of evidence that there is even a problem. Bushfires are caused by forests of flammable (often Australian) trees, not climate change. Droughts are caused by years of not enough rain in dry areas. Floods are caused by too much rain at one time. These are all perfectly natural if not predictable variations. The Great Barrier Reef has been bleached by hot water, not hot air. No one has any idea what to do with $444Million to prevent hot water. That’s possibly $5000 a starfish, again a natural and regular and beneficial predator.

    As suggested above, you have to wonder if Malcolm Turnbull wants the job. Even very left commentators like Peter Van Onselen are completely puzzled by his complete lack of any agenda. If Turnbull’s signature policies are pumping water uphill at incredible cost, the NBN and handing half a billion to his friends without request or tender, he makes Rudd seems smart and very conservative and he was just as rich. Plus his Chinese was better.

    While the unprecedented and indefensible and massive gift to the Turnbull’s business mates is not illegal, the private decision to give so much of our public money away with no plan at all is improper and reprehensible. In the scale of a country the size of Australia, it is unprecedented lack of any semblance of propriety, fiscal responsibility and proper procedure.

    If Shorten cannot move a vote of no confidence in the Prime Minister on this basis and after the defeat of this bill, it would be surprising. At least ten coalition members might agree. If even two coalition MPs agree, say his bff Joyce and one other, Turnbull’s government would fall. As speculated, it may be what he wants, to take his bat and ball and go home.

    He does not need the money and as polls show, people are starting to see him as another Dudd. Not good for the ego.

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    TdeF

    Interesting comments in the US

    U.S. Department of Interior Secretary (DOI) Ryan Zinke told Breitbart News Saturday that “environmental terrorist groups” are, in part, responsible for the deadly wildfires in the Western United States. Wildfires have charred hundreds of thousands of acres and caused loss of life, including six firefighters.

    “We’re spending probably, this season, over $2 billion fighting forest fires when many of them could be prevented by better forest management techniques,” Zinke said.

    “But we have these radical environmentalists that close off roads, refuse to have firebreaks, refuse to have any timber harvested, no grazing, and the result is these catastrophic fires,” Zinke said.

    In Australia we even lost a whole suburb in Canberra because of such intransigence and environmental nonsense. There is no Gaia, no Earth mother. There is no man made Climate Change but yes, these are partly man made disasters. Now that we have Prime Minister blaming the current drought on Climate Change which he is going to solve by more fines and carbon credits and legislation. Somehow. Credibility, zero.

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    Another Ian

    “The NEG: A Frankenstein Green Energy Policy which Upsets Pretty Much Everyone”

    “Clearly not a lot of joy in either camp. The reason is simple – in my opinion Australia has just been served with a “dog poop yoghurt” energy policy.

    The dog poop yoghurt fallacy is a demonstration of why compromise is not always a solution. In the words of James Delingpole;

    It goes like this: one side of this debate thinks that the best thing to put in yoghurt is fruit; the other side is of the view that what really needs to be added to yoghurt is a nice bit of dog poo. Now suppose we were to compromise. Suppose the latter faction were to concede sufficient ground to agree that only a tiny quantity of dog poo should go into the mainly fruit-rich yoghurt, would this constitute a victory for commonsense?

    Of course it wouldn’t. Even if just the smallest, smidgen of a fraction of dog poo were to go into that yoghurt it would still be irredeemably tainted.”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/08/14/the-neg-a-frankenstein-green-energy-policy-which-upsets-pretty-much-everyone/

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    PeterS

    From what I can see Turnbull is attempting to make Australia the first nation in the world to legislate the Paris Agreement into the local environment, and in addition to include penalties for non-compliance. Together with the other hot issues (agriculture crisis and immigration explosion) his agenda is now clear. He is not only a globalist he is on a mission to surpass Rudd not just because they always were in agreement on climate change and how to deal with it but also to boast on the world stage. These reasons have convinced me that Turnbull is as dangerous as Rudd could ever have been if not more so. Anyone who considers themselves to be a Liberal voter must not vote for the LNP as long as Turnbull is the leader. The problem with that of course is it would allow Shorten to become PM, which is going to happen in any case given the mood of the public. The crash and burn then is accelerated. There is now only two options to save the nation. Either Turnbull is replaced with a new leader who can win the next election to prevent Shorten becoming PM, or if that is not possible those in the LNP who have a brain and a heart to resign from the party and work with the other minor parties to block both Turnbull and Shorten from pursuing their destructive policies. I can’t see any other way to save us from a crash and burn scenario.

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    Analitik

    Tony Abbott was right about Australian border protection, the Carbon Tax and refugees inundating Europe.
    So why should the Australian electorate listen to him now?

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