JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Weekend Unthreaded

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Weekend Unthreaded, 9.1 out of 10 based on 18 ratings

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285 comments to Weekend Unthreaded

  • #
    john

    Going green:

    VChecking out at the store, the young cashier suggested to the much older lady that she should bring her own grocery bags, because plastic bags are not good for the environment.

    The woman apologized to the young girl and explained, “We didn’t have this ‘green thing’ back in my earlier days.”

    The young clerk responded, “That’s our problem today. Your generation did not care enough to save our environment for future generations.”

    The older lady said that she was right — our generation didn’t have the “green thing” in its day. The older lady went on to explain:

    Back then, we returned milk bottles, soda bottles and beer bottles to the store. The store sent them back to the plant to be washed and sterilized and refilled, so it could use the same bottles over and over. So they really were recycled. But we didn’t have the “green thing” back in our day.

    Grocery stores bagged our groceries in brown paper bags that we reused for numerous things. Most memorable besides household garbage bags was the use of brown paper bags as book covers for our school books. This was to ensure that public property (the books provided for our use by the school) was not defaced by our scribblings. Then we were able to personalize our books on the brown paper bags. But, too bad we didn’t do the “green thing” back then.

    We walked up stairs because we didn’t have an escalator in every store and office building. We walked to the grocery store and didn’t climb into a 300-horsepower machine every time we had to go two blocks. But she was right. We didn’t have the “green thing” in our day.

    Back then we washed the baby’s diapers because we didn’t have the throw away kind. We dried clothes on a line, not in an energy-gobbling machine burning up 220 volts. Wind and solar power really did dry our clothes back in our early days. Kids got hand-me-down clothes from their brothers or sisters, not always brand-new clothing. But that young lady is right; we didn’t have the “green thing” back in our day.

    Back then we had one TV, or radio, in the house — not a TV in every room. And the TV had a small screen the size of a handkerchief (remember them?), not a screen the size of the state of Montana. In the kitchen we blended and stirred by hand because we didn’t have electric machines to do everything for us. When we packaged a fragile item to send in the mail, we used wadded up old newspapers to cushion it, not Styrofoam or plastic bubble wrap. Back then, we didn’t fire up an engine and burn gasoline just to cut the lawn. We used a push mower that ran on human power. We exercised by working so we didn’t need to go to a health club to run on treadmills that operate on electricity But she’s right; we didn’t have the “green thing” back then.

    We drank from a fountain when we were thirsty instead of using a cup or a plastic bottle every time we had a drink of water. We refilled writing pens with ink instead of buying a new pen, and we replaced the razor blade in a razor instead of throwing away the whole razor just because the blade got dull. But we didn’t have the “green thing” back then.

    Back then, people took the streetcar or a bus and kids rode their bikes to school or walked instead of turning their moms into a 24-hour taxi service in the family’s $45,000 SUV or van, which cost what a whole house did before the “green thing.” We had one electrical outlet in a room, not an entire bank of sockets to power a dozen appliances And we didn’t need a computerized gadget to receive a signal beamed from satellites 23,000 miles out in space in order to find the nearest burger joint.

    But isn’t it sad the current generation laments how wasteful we old folks were just because we didn’t have the “green thing” back then?

    Please forward this on to another selfish old person who needs a lesson in conservation from a smart ass young person.

    We don’t like being old in the first place, so it doesn’t take much to pi** us off… Especially from a tattooed, multiple pierced smartass who can’t make change without the cash register telling them how much.

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    • #
      Roy Hogue

      About then I would have exploded at the young snip behind the cash register and demanded to see the manager. Being made to carry my own grocery bags to the store is bad enough without being insulted too.

      The plain fact is that one civilization has been built on the trash heaps of the previous one for as long as we humans have been around. And it will continue that way, bring your own bags or not. Does anyone think a landfill is somehow going to turn into nature’s god given dirt just because we plow it under every day.

      If you live you impact your environment. Every living thing does that. Are humans any less entitled to do that than, say, something that tunnels into the ground or something that craps all over anywhere it wants to — oh, that’s us, only we do a better job of disposal than a horse or a pig.

      Personally I’m insulted and angry over the antics of Sacramento and I wish there was something I could do that would actually change that place for the better. There is a long shot chance to elect a Republican governor in November. But even if we do he’ll be a wild card and still be stymied by a Democrat legislature.

      In the end, if enough people want to jump off a cliff, then mankind will go that way. That’s the lesson of history.

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      • #
        Roy Hogue

        I have long understood why we’re failing. It’s all embodied in this quote from Sir Winston Churchill. I find it with some slight variation of wording but always the same meaning and lesson.

        The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.

        Churchill was a man with the stubborn will to get it right that donald Trump has. And the insight into our problems in that simple quote is nothing less than the reason why we still have democratic socialists trying to gain political power. They do not learn from the past. They imagine a future where their wet dreams come true and then try to enforce that future on the world around them.

        It has yet to work even one time, not one single time. The young are being hailed as our bright new future. But like any ignorant foolish leader, they will be our downfall.

        But when have our children given any thought to the wisdom of experience? In general, I don’t see it.

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        • #
          Roy Hogue

          Red thumbs instead of a comment explaining your dislike or disagreement makes you a coward. I’ll continue to speak the truth and if you don’t like it…well I have a large collection of red thumbs and I’ll be glad to add yours to that collection.

          I don’t comment here to gain anyone’s approval.

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        • #
          Yonniestone

          Ah yes Roy but quoting Churchill you automatically expose yourself as a pro Western Colonist who’s actions have supported decades of human rights abuses and environmental vandalism on a scale not seen since, Mao, Stalin, Lenin, Castro, Pol Pot…….oh wait.

          Yes we will encounter those that wish to repeat history without the realization of their actions (I guess its how it happens) but like the names above it only takes a minority to influence a majority to change in large numbers, consider we have the advantage of already having more than a minority and the political system in place to enact it.

          What people now fail to comprehend is just how many freedoms and rights democracy/republics have given to citizens that they would never have had if they had stayed in their countries of origin that had decided what their course their life was going to take, I’m still amazed by people older than me disrespecting Churchill because of some new expose` documentary on the ABC distorted facts and failed to consider the influences of the times represented, it just goes to show how much leftist brainwashing has marched through our institutions.

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          • #
            Yonniestone

            I’ll also add Sir Winston Churchill was not so blind with vengeance as to show appreciation for well fought victories,

            “The Declaration of Independence is not only an American document. It follows on Magna Carta and the Bill of Rights as the third great title-deed on which the liberties of the English-speaking people are founded. By it we lost an Empire, but by it we also preserved an Empire. By applying its principles and learning its lesson we have maintained our communion with the powerful Commonwealths our children have established beyond the seas…We therefore join in perfect sincerity and simplicity with our American kith and kin in celebrating the auspicious and glorious anniversary of their nationhood.”

            –Winston Churchill, July 4, 1918

            Independence and decency is what the left hate, to them the person that possess them is just a by product.

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            • #
              Roy Hogue

              Yes, we owe much to our British cousins, even though we were, shall I say, estranged at the time. But that rift has been eliminated and the British remain a valuable friend and ally, even though I wonder at their wisdom just as I wonder about our wisdom.

              The world I knew has disappeared and it leaves me crying for the loss of what I would call the only American Dream and indeed the universal human dream, the right to make my own decisions, profit honestly from my labor and then live with the consequences, whatever they are. That builds character and strength. Having your hand held through life builds dependency and contempt for the very thing you depend on. How much more vicious can an enemy get than that?

              Don’t let anyone tell you the American Dream is to own a house, two cars and work in the top floor corner office. Sorry that’s a false dream.

              30

          • #
            Roy Hogue

            Yoni,

            You aren’t by any chance a retired stand up comedian are you? You do it so well with that bite of irony that comes when you turn the truth around and point it back at the good guys. I love it.

            :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) Cheers is the right thing to say if I’m not mistaken. I can only give you one green thumb but you deserve quite a few more.

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            • #
              Yonniestone

              Thanks for the kind words Roy, I’m often asked about the comedy thing but no I never have been but maybe I should try.

              Comedy is a great leveller when used in context and moderation, its been a personal privilege to converse with people of such backgrounds on here.

              10

              • #
                Roy Hogue

                Unfortunately there’s nothing left but to poke fun at those who rule over us. The Science war was won long ago and worthwhile trolls don’t seem to come around much anymore. No one argues against what Jo publishes with a serous case against what she says.

                What’s left?”

                So I would say, “Go at it with all the gusto you’ve got.”

                20

          • #
            Roy Hogue

            About Sir Winston Churchill, I regret that I didn’t discover a reason to pay attention to the man long ago. He appears to have been extraordinary in that he could learn from the past like almost no other leader and then — and this is the second ingredient necessary for success — he was willing to commit his country to an all out war to defeat the German menace. He was willing to go as far as tempt the United States to enter the war as well. And we did. He was not afraid to act on what he learned from the past.

            I have no idea what it must have been like living under the bombing of London. Certainly terrifying doesn’t begin to tell the story. But I have no doubt that Winston Churchill felt every bomb, every rocket and every death. And he could do nothing but go on forward and press for victory.

            He played a lot of lives against something evil and he won. I can satisfy myself with the loss of life knowing that no one died in vain. It rid the world, at least for a long time, of something as evil as anything can be.

            He should be required study in every school in the world, not because western civilization and it’s culture should be imposed on everyone but because his wisdom can be used anywhere to the benefit of everyone.

            I have a lot of trouble accepting the death toll of our Vietnam war knowing that every death was in vain, accomplishing nothing. There’s a big difference in the emotions invoked by those two wars.

            40

            • #
              Roy Hogue

              After giving the final go ahead for the Normandy landing General Eisenhower is said to have gone to his office, written his admission of failure and his resignation, put it in an envelope addressed to President Roosevelt and sealed it. He put that letter in a desk drawer, ready in case the German defenders prevailed.

              That’s a man who, after making the best preparation he knew how to make, was not sure it would be enough.

              I don’t ever want to be in the position that Churchill and Eisenhower were in. I cannot even imagine the pressure bearing down on those two men.

              And now Donald Trump is in the hot seat. It seems to never end.

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        • #
          Latus Dextro

          Roy, as you know Churchill made many penetrating observations. My personal favourite is one that remains most pertinent today. I have quoted it here before. It stands repeating ad nauseam:
          “Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. Its sole virtue is the equality of misery.”

          Much of what passes for contemporary edukashun focuses depressingly, on the destruction of relationships founded on respect, replaces facts with feelings, supplants critical thought with consensus, destroys, degrades, invalidates or scorns traditional hierarchies founded on knowledge, experience, and wisdom, undermines the family and traditional culture and values, elevates the State and its bureaucracies. Little wonder then that some children churned through this process are doomed to lifelong ignorance and a repetition of history. Fortunately many are not. These are not necessarily the smartest or the dullest. They are more likely to be individuals with a stronger sense of self and independence. I consider that those traits have a strong genetic basis, amplified or affected by conditioning in different ways. Their exposure to the ‘narrative’ may forever immunise and sensitise them to institutionalised socialist eco-dogma and climatism, or any ‘groupthink’.

          Nevertheless, there is reassurance to be found in noting that cultural Marxism comes with a lethal gene creating the dystopian chaos that leads to its own demise. The secular chant of diversity, equity and inclusion is the punto finale that heralds the collapse of the virtue signallers, those rainbow ribboned academics and their low wattage cousins in bureaucracy.

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          • #

            And that is why our next PM will be ….. Bill Shorten!

            Oh, Heaven help us.

            Tony.

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            • #
              Roy Hogue

              Tony,

              Not to make light of the reign of Bill Shorten or your lament but let’s hope that his name will describe how long he lasts in office. Perhaps irony or plain old good luck will prevail.

              And with your knowledge, maybe you can manage to pull the plug on him. ;-)

              50

        • #
          PeterS

          Indeed Roy, people like Churchill and Trump have vision of lots of good things for the nation but the likes of Obama, Turnbull and Shorten have no vision except when they see themselves in the mirror at best, and at worst have visions of only bad things for the nation.

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          • #
            Richard Ilfeld

            Thank you, Peter. The Cult of me is killing us.
            One used to give to a charity. Now, our students select from a smorgasboard of
            causes they can “work” for to gain points to add to their grade point to get into college to
            be inculcated in the culture of me — me as part of the great collective. It might be OK if me
            was part of us; but us is not the town, the church, the community with shared real-world problems
            and solutions; it is the great socialist ideal of perfect man to which we must all bend our personal lives.
            “I am somebody” in the educational mileu, as long as I am the somebody you want me to be.

            I flew a ‘young eagle’ yesterday…gave a 12 year old a taste of aviation. My reward was the smile, and the hope
            that this particular niche of personal freedom might appeal to the young man, and open a possibility for him. Two
            of the many I’ve flown over the years ended up in aviation careers that I know of. No points, no social attaboys,
            and I had to pay for the gas. Virtually every adult I know in my generation did something like that for the next
            generation; a happy experience reflecting one’s personal tastes, without political baggage.

            There’s a difference: Its for the kid, rather than “about the children”.

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            • #
              PeterS

              I’m afraid you are witnessing in real-life the same process all civilisations/empires/nations go through. Most people today are unaware it is happening partly because they don’t care, partly because they are too busy with a mixture of distractions and the normal course of life and partly because it’s a slow process. The end result is the always the same – crash and burn. I’m hoping it doesn’t happen in my time but the more I see the more I’m convinced it will be either in my time or very soon afterwards.

              Notice yet again the push for the Sydney Harbour Bridge: “Let that Aboriginal flag fly high from the Sydney Harbour Bridge 365 days of the year. It goes up today for NAIDOC Week, but it comes down in a week’s time” – Luke Foley – NSW Opposition Leader. Meanwhile aboriginal children are being harmed and raped even as we speak but no one is willing to curtail it. Identity politics and virtue signalling are so much easier and simpler than trying to fix the really important issues. Turnbull and Shorten are champions on that front yet people still scratch their heads wondering what to do. It’s obvious but it appears the public by and large are clueless and don’t realise they have the power to change the political scene even a little enough to make a real difference. Instead it looks like either LNP or ALP will continue to have full power to do whatever they desire against the best interests of the nation. So in the end the real fault lies with public not the politicians since the politicians are elected by the public, not the other way around (obviously but it appears it needs to be emphasised because it appears they have forgotten we live in a reasonably democratic system). We get the government we deserve. Thank you Australians. Pfffftt.

              30

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Precisely why the USA has a 2nd Ammendment and why its so important.

          Freedom is forged in struggle, often not in nice circumstances, but the pig ignorant or deceptive ones would have you think otherwise.

          I am under no illusions. Look at how things in the USA are unfolding to recognize the danger of the Left to freedom.

          50

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        …only we do a better job of disposal than a horse or a pig.

        …except in San Francisco and now, Los Angeles too.

        Is there a crying face I can use?

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      • #
        Rod Stuart

        Roy, did you read Strauss and Howe’s generational theory “The Fourth Turning” when it came out mid Nineties?
        If so, it is enlightening to read again, and realise just how accurately these guys predicted this period they call “winter”.

        “In retrospect, the spark might seem as ominous as a financial crash, as ordinary as a national election, or as trivial as a Tea Party. The catalyst will unfold according to a basic Crisis dynamic that underlies all of these scenarios: An initial spark will trigger a chain reaction of unyielding responses and further emergencies. The core elements of these scenarios (debt, civic decay, global disorder) will matter more than the details, which the catalyst will juxtapose and connect in some unknowable way. If foreign societies are also entering a Fourth Turning, this could accelerate the chain reaction. At home and abroad, these events will reflect the tearing of the civic fabric at points of extreme vulnerability – problem areas where America will have neglected, denied, or delayed needed action.”

        Winter’s duration is one generation, or about twenty years. The current season possibly began with 9/11. Or perhaps it began 8 November 2016. As for the point at which the seasons again change and Spring begins;

        “All you know in advance is something about the molten ingredients of the climax, which could include the following:

        Economic distress, with public debt in default, entitlement trust funds in bankruptcy, mounting poverty and unemployment, trade wars, collapsing financial markets, and hyperinflation (or deflation)
        Social distress, with violence fueled by class, race, nativism, or religion and abetted by armed gangs, underground militias, and mercenaries hired by walled communities
        Political distress, with institutional collapse, open tax revolts, one-party hegemony, major constitutional change, secessionism, authoritarianism, and altered national borders
        Military distress, with war against terrorists or foreign regimes equipped with weapons of mass destruction”

        50

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          Rod,

          No, I didn’t even know about it. Unfortunately I have been witness to the unfolding of those very events. They seem so obvious to anyone who has the — nerve, or is it interest, maybe it takes self-respect — to simply look at what’s going on around him and ask the simple question, is it working, that I wonder why our present generation of leaders and would-be leaders are as ignorant of that reality as the nearest fence post.

          It unfortunately make a truism out of what I’ve said already too many times,

          Nothing sticks around longer than a bad idea.

          30

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Please forward this on to another selfish old person who needs a lesson in conservation from a smart ass young person.

      Please consider it forwarded. I only wish I knew enough people willing to even consider it so it could make a difference. But your lament strikes home with me.

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    • #
      Roy Hogue

      And now I’ve managed to take over the first comment spot in this thread. I’ve also exhausted the time I have to spend commenting.

      I don’t know why some of my comments get the respect they do except maybe they’re just common sense.

      In any case, thank you. And now I must sign off.

      Roy

      40

    • #

      she was selfish… I was waiting at the checkout behind her.

      11

    • #
      Mickey Reno

      Gordon Lightfoot has a wonderful song about how the history Canada being opened and tamed by men and women of vision and drive and self-interest, searching for political freedom or to own a little piece of land. It’s similar for settlers taming America and Australia, in differing degrees. He sings about the work and sacrifice needed to make a country that later generations, in their ignorance, could take for granted.

      The Canadian Railroad Trilogy
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXzauTuRG78

      40

  • #
    • #
      Yonniestone

      Can I be the first to say that Wind Plant is Fuked………

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    • #
      Ian1946

      Just reading the comments in that article from some numbskull called Wallace I am flabbergasted that some people really believe that wind and solar can provide 24/7 power. Can they really be that stupid or are they just leftie idealogues.

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    • #
      Lucky

      That japantimes article from john:
      something else to note which is no surprise,
      wind turbines perform worse than the proponents claimed,
      so instead of learning from the experience, they will build more,
      it is only (other people’s) money.

      60

  • #
  • #
  • #
    Another Ian

    Re the bag ban

    “SALMONELLA HIGHEST IN BAG-BAN STATES”

    “Probably coincidence, but has this been studied? There are many sources for salmonella food poison, including mixing food ingredients such as raw chicken or even salad, but the first two bag-ban states top this survey of food poisoning rates in 2013.”

    More at

    https://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/salmonella-highest-in-bagban-states/news-story/980f7396459c6dc405442f4a5d586775

    60

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Much like the old political bags in parliament, always filled with overpriced crap that no one wants, will turn at the slightest change of climate and will never be clean in their lifetime.

      60

    • #
      Greg Cavanagh

      What was it, about 6 years ago in Australia when they tried to implement a voluntary plastic bag ban? Many stores began to use bio-degradable plastic bags, and recycle hemp bags were promoted.

      Exactly the same thing happened then as well, it made the news.

      I bought a couple hemp bags, mostly to see how well it worked. This is what politicians don’t do. They just make a decision and believe their idea is so good it must be imposed upon everybody.

      Anyway, because you buy items from the freezer and milk fridge; the hemp bags get moist every time you carry groceries in them. It only takes about 3 weeks in Queensland for mold to start to grow on the bags. Then you must toss them and buy new.

      They also slow down the checkout cues significantly.

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  • #
    Another Ian

    “And still the wonder grew”

    “Dear MSNBC: Political Tribalism”

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2018/07/06/dear-msnbc-political-tribalism/

    20

  • #
    Another Ian

    Particularly the last paragraph

    Canadian Observer
    July 6, 2018 at 2:02 pm

    I think there is a strong correlation here with western mainstream media, also.

    Both groups have been found repeatedly guilty of taking raw data and Intentionally manipulating it to tell a specific, misleading narrative to the public. Both ‘industries’ hypocritically hold truth as their ‘sacred mission’, yet regularly mangle and distort it for ideological or financial ends. Both have become quite brazen with the audacity of their false claims, yet can be sure of co-conspirators backing up their lies. Both groups regularly have their integrity compromised, most commonly by their leftist partisan affiliations.

    I see most media and many scientific fields more as organized religions, now. The ‘Climate Crowd’ and it’s anti-science preaching has no credibility at all with me. They convince themselves, primarily with group-think and the willing consumption of hardcore leftist propaganda, that they are morally superior and thus righteous in their emotional spreading of utter bullshit and zealotry. I mean, just look at the Democrats and the current bizarre ‘moral frenzy’ they have whipped themselves into, primarily by the ‘evangelizing’ of the media. The only thing missing is worshiping a deity…. although I guess the media do seem to still bow to Obama as holier than thou.”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2018/07/06/the-sound-of-settled-science-14/#comment-1128224

    70

  • #
    Another Ian

    Re #7 – Another go at giving you the message

    “Guardian: Climate Change Is ‘Greater Threat’ than Terrorism”

    https://www.breitbart.com/london/2018/07/07/guardian-climate-change-greater-threat-terrorism/

    40

    • #
      TdeF

      ..because global warming “is directly related to the cumulative emissions of carbon dioxide,” and stopping the warming “requires moving to zero emissions of carbon dioxide.”

      Now the first statement is not proven by anyone. It is ridiculous. The second statement is impossible, especially with population increasing 5x, from 1.6Billion in 1900 to 8 billion at 2020. Forget cars, the biggest source of CO2 is people. Carbon based lifeforms who emit CO2 with every breath.

      You would think it important before starting a world wide scare like man made global warming that someone proves that carbon dioxide growth is caused by human emissions. It isn’t. It is perfectly natural and caused by the slight warming of the oceans. CO2 levels will always be set by that rational science concept, equilibrium.

      Further, we insignificant humans can emit as much CO2 as we like and there will be almost no detectable change in CO2 levels. In control of two of the most common elements in the universe, we are barely detectable.

      With our rational science, we have gone in 100 years from discovering Antarctica and the Arctic and climbing Mount Everest and sinking to the bottom of the ocean in a steel ball to claiming that we control the planet, the levels of gas, the planet temperature and the climates. All powerful humans. What utter rot.

      Rational science has no part in this unproven and absurd claim of man made warming. It is not ‘science’. If you cannot prove the CO2 increase is man made, you have no right to cripple Australia’s power supply. You have no Science. You have appropriated science for political science.

      This nonsense must stop. Start with repealing the incredibly damaging RET Act. Let the market supply the world’s most expensive electricity market. As Hepburn Wind has shown, they cannot do so even today without massive cash grants to support a zero debt windmill. They get as much money from selling certificates, cash for nothing at all, as they do from selling their electricity. Stop the insanity.

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      • #
        Serp

        You’ve finally cemented your argument with me after what seems like years of reading your comments TdeF; I buy everything you say about carbon dioxide in the oceans.

        But how will millions of other Australians find this out? Had I not lit on this website I may not have.

        Meanwhile those billions of dollars are continuing to disappear into the bottomless receiving accounts of the energy rorters both on and offshore.

        We need urgently to repeal the RET legislation and annul all regulations which refer to “emissions”.

        70

        • #
          Sceptical Sam

          And have the sensible end of Parliament vote down the NEG.

          Abbott is right.

          Top-hat Turnbull is in the sway of the useful idiots.

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  • #
    Kinky Keith

    John, at the first comment above, has provided a very real outline of the old days. That story has been in circulation now for a couple of weeks and should be widely spread.
    Sixty years ago recycling was down to earth real.

    Current grandstanding recycling by local government consists of going through the motions to separate material for recycling and then sending it to China, where I think it was ending up as landfill.

    So much for modern greenism.

    KK

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    • #
      yarpos

      That story is years old, its just been recycled recently

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      • #
        Annie

        It’s good though, isn’t it?

        50

        • #
          sophocles

          to Annie @ 9.1.1

          Accurate too.

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        • #
          yarpos

          tis a nice parable and illustrates how youth rarely appreciates what has gone before, even quite recently before. Such has it ever been I think apart from a thoughtful very small minority. Humans dont seem to have a great history of learning from their mistakes. I think it would all work a bit better if we were a longer lived species and had to live with the problems of our own making for a couple of centuries.

          20

          • #
            Annie

            Perish the thought!
            I have met some delightful, sensible young people….thank goodness such do exist so the story isn’t all bad. However, they will have the same problems (as we do) dealing with their brainwashed peers and others, both young and old, who swallow everything they are told by the various media. I know that even ‘good’ schools have been suckered into the present agw/cc sjw rubbish but the young people who have an independant and thoughtful mindset will understand what is going on.

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  • #
    TdeF

    As for plastic bags, prove a significant problem actually exists in Australia first!

    No photographs from somewhere in China or Africa or somewhere else. We 26 million people inhabit a continent with 37,000km of coast and I have never seen this as a problem. In Melbourne, we 5 million people all live on a single lake and I go to the beach most days. I have not seen this problem. Simple drain trap are enough to catch the very few bags from 5 million people. There is no problem!

    Only 2% of humans live south of the Tropic of Capricorn but somehow we have to pay massive punitive taxes on refrigerants, carbon dioxide and plastic bags. Why?

    This is outrageous socialism masquerading as environmentalism. We are not saving any whales or dolphins or pristine beaches. Dog poo is a far greater problem. This is only training people that they have to obey the fake ecologists who have seized control of our governments and intimidated our retailers. We are getting laws on what we can say, to whom and that we need government permission to speak or act. We are being herded. Stop the insanity.

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    • #
      TdeF

      We in Australia, responsible for an entire continent the size of the US without Alaska, the only continental country do not have a problem with plastic bags. We represent 0.25% of the world population and we have most of the world’s oceans. We do not have a problem. Can we please have our bags back. We need them. They have a thousand uses as well as carrying shopping. Otherwise we have to buy more bags anyway and where is the sense in that?

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        TdeF

        Besides, we need the bags to stop the real dog poo ecological problem. Unless the government can legislate toilet training for dogs. Perhaps ban dogs entirely? Then ban children? Then ban people? The real Green agenda.

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        • #
          TdeF

          In Melbourne, 30 tonnes of dog poo each day and this ultimately gets washed into our single bay. Not 30 tons of plastic bags. Or is it really just a cost saving for supermarkets, a practice run for totalitarianism and who cares about the environment?

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            Hanrahan

            Fortunately smoking is a dying habit but the filters are slow to degrade and when flicked into the street they end up in the waterway.

            One issue with plastic bags in the ocean is that turtles can mistake small clear bags for jellyfish and choke. The boaties I know bring back any and all plastics they take with them though. People fishing on the bank with a packet of prawns may not be so thoughtful though.

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            • #
              TdeF

              Yes, I have read that. We do not have a big turtle population in most Australian oceans and you see very few plastic bags. This is again more tropical waters with large human populations and no waste disposal, so most of equatorial Asia. That is where you get a problem, not here. So are they giving up their plastic bags, improving sanitation and collecting rubbish. No.

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                Hanrahan

                We do not have a big turtle population in most Australian oceans

                My daughter is a volunteer at Reef HQ and they always have a few turtles in their hospital. Their success rate returning them is high.

                From their web site:
                Why a Turtle Hospital?
                The Reef HQ Aquarium turtle hospital provides a dedicated facility where sick and injured marine turtles can be cared for and rehabilitated. The hospital operates under and promotes the C.A.R.E (Conserve. Act. Rehabilitate. Educate) philosophy playing a key role in raising community awareness in relation to threatened species and encouraging behavioural change that contributes to nature conservation.

                The turtle hospital was officially opened on the 24 August 2009 by the honourable Peter Garrett AM MP, Minister for Environment Protection, Heritage and the Arts.

                Marine Turtles are long-lived, slow growing and late maturing. Despite protection marine turtles face a number of threats:

                Fishing nets, lines and hooks – Bring all your fishing tackle home.
                Boat Strikes – Go slow for those below and keep an eye out for turtles.
                Litter – Turtles and other sea creatures mistake it for food.
                Plastic Bags – Reduce, Reuse and Recycle.
                Report sick or injured marine turtles 1300 ANIMAL (1300 264 625)

                Note: I believe the litter problem is overstated as part of the guilt industry. Prop strikes is a real problem.

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                TdeF

                Hanrahan, great. I now know more about turtles in Australia and their protection. What I also now know is that while plastic bags are a potential problem, the people are in the South and the turtles are in the north, 4,000km from Melbourne, 3,000km from Sydney and 1,300km from even Brisbane. Few around Tasmania, or Melbourne, I presume.

                Now that, especially considering all the people inland, Adelaide, Perth and Hobart and all inland cities, takes out most of Australia’s population. 231,000 people live in North Queensland and most, 167,000 people live in Townsville. Are plastic bags a common discovery around Townsville waters?

                Of course no one is saying plastic bags are not a threat to turtles, most most people do not live where turtles live, which is what I said.

                Now of course the questions for your daughter.
                Are plastic bags doing real damage to turtle populations on the reef?
                How do they compare to other man made threats?
                How do they compare to natural threats?
                Even in Townsville, 3400km from Melbourne, is there any value in a ban on plastic bags?

                If not, why ban them?

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                Hanrahan

                I’m disappointed that you are getting personal. You are arguing that the ban on singlet bags is BS. Nothing I have said should indicate that I disagree. I did, in the interests of accuracy, comment that problems none the less exist with plastic in the marine environment and we should be aware. It seems that because no turtles swim in your back yard they are expendable. I disagree.

                And keep my daughter out of this. She suffered brain damage at birth when the Dr cut the umbilical before she started breathing properly. She does what she can but that does NOT include answering your stupid questions..

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            • #
              TdeF

              Hanrahan, where did you see this turtle problem? Real life? A photograph? Where was it taken? Where is there actually problem? How big a problem is it?

              I don’t doubt there might be a problem but before we inconvenience millions of people to save these turtles, what actual quantitative evidence do you have?

              We saw the same thing with photographs of single sick and starving polar bear. He was simply sick and starving.

              I have a picture on the front of Time magazine of a crying little 2 year old girl being bullied by the US President. It isn’t real.

              I have a photograph of a child in a steel cage. His mother put him there in front of the town hall.

              How certain are you that this problem exists and where does it exist and how big a problem is it?

              Was it staged? Was it photoshopped, like the plastic bag iceberg on the front of National Geographic this month?

              Or should we just ban all plastic bags in Australian supermarkets because of a photograph?

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            GD

            Back in my day, our dogs pooed in the backyard. The only thing we did was to make sure we didn’t step in it. Back then we had big yards, and back then dog poo turned to dust very quickly.

            Given that all animals defecate, I don’t understand the problem with dog poo, other than finding yourself standing in it on the grass.

            Apparently, the problem is tonnes of small plastic bags containing dog poo that are washed up into Port Phillip Bay.

            Surely it would be better to let the dog do his business where he wants, within reason, and stop conflating the problem by adding a plastic bag.

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        • #
          Another Ian

          TdeF

          Remember a while back there was that photo on the net of the woman in Central Park New York washing her dog’s bum with a drinking fountain?

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    • #
      Yonniestone

      Remember this from 2017?, Shocking report reveals that 95% of plastic polluting the world’s oceans comes from just TEN rivers including the Ganges and Niger.

      Perhaps the people that invented plastics are the most aware of its responsibility?

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        TdeF

        And how much of this plastic pollution makes it into the Southern Ocean or South Pacific? Very little.

        Surely we Australians should demonstrate plastic bag pollution before we start banning things? As for the idea that we are the ones polluting the Atlantic or North Pacific or Indian ocean, that is ridiculous if we do not even have a problem at home.

        Our ratbag laws seem to keep politicians busy. Like local councils banning nuclear weapons. Unfortunately politicians spend their time supporting people who want more taxes, not fewer. An excuse is as good as a reason.

        Now they are talking of taxing high sugar drinks. This happened with alcopops. Of course they calculate the revenue based on the assumption that total consumption is not affected, so it is all fake. Save the children. Trouser the cash.

        Australia’s electricity is almost entirely and often entirely coal powered but fortunes are being spent and made pretending this is only a temporary situation, that wind is cheaper and now that buying or building huge batteries at enormous expense will save us.

        Anyone doing the calculations would conclude that covering the whole of Victoria in lunchtime solar panels would not power the state. And then where would we live?

        Australia has never had a more useless set of politicians than Green Malcolm and his Black Hand buddies. Parties in New York and Paris first. MALA. Make Australia Last Again.

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      David Maddison

      The Left have won the war against cheap electricity and are now moving onto other conveniences and benefits of Western Civilisation such as plastic bags and other plastics.

      People in civilised Western Countries dispose of rubbish appropriately. Plastic pollution in the ocean comes from the Third World because they dump their rubbish in waterways.

      There was never a demonstrated problem in Australia that needed solving.

      Incidentally, free supermarket plastic bags, despite their appearance were a technological marvel. They were made of very thin but very strong ultrahigh molecular weight polyethylene.

      Everyone I know used free supermarket bags for secondary uses such as bin liners and other rubbish disposal or picking up after the dog etc.

      Australian governments are highly compliant with everything the unelected Third World dominated UN wants. They are ultimately behind the ban on free plastic shopping bags but they’ll be going after other plastics as well. The plan is in the document below.

      In the US I think Californiastan is the only state that goes along with this nonsense.

      https://wedocs.unep.org/bitstream/handle/20.500.11822/25496/singleUsePlastic_sustainability.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

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        Greg Cavanagh

        Indeed. The grocery bags were never a single use bag. They always got a second duty with rubbish. Now I have to buy plastic bags for the bin, which will be true single use bags. The stupid, it burns.

        As for litter, there is barely any these days. Some gathers in the creeks washed out by the flood waters. That rubbish comes from the town centres where lazy people don’t use the bins and it washes into the storm water system. Grocery bags were never a problem here.

        It is purely based on the photos that Greenpeace supply, pretending that the oceans are full of litter, and that we are responsible. It’s 97% nonsense.

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        • #
          Annie

          There is enough litter on our roadsides in North Central Vic to be an eyesore…I can pick up a (‘single use’) supermarket bag of varying items just from half of our farm frontage, thanks to the passing tourist public from Melbourne. It isn’t the bags that are the problem; it’s the people who don’t take their rubbish home to dispose of it correctly.
          We find Macca’s containers around, how come? The nearest I know of is in Croydon, a good hour’s drive away.

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          • #
            PeterPetrum

            Annie, we are the same up here in the Blue Mountains. The nearest Maccas is in Blaxland, at least 50 minutes away, and yet I have to pick up Maccas drink containers and food boxes from outside my house on a semi-regular basis. Peasants!

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            • #
              TdeF

              You wonder where the wombats get the money? I suppose they can store spare change in the pouch. Still Maccas should not be selling anything to the wildlife. It causes envy and fighting.

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      • #

        Never underestimate the damage that can be wrought by diligent and zealous bureaucrats in the administration of things that they do not understand.

        German General Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord has been quoted saying:

        I divide my officers into four classes; the clever, the lazy, the industrious, and the stupid. Most often two of these qualities come together. The officers who are clever and industrious are fitted for the highest staff appointments. Those who are stupid and lazy make up around 90% of every army in the world, and they can be used for routine work. The man who is clever and lazy however is for the very highest command; he has the temperament and nerves to deal with all situations. But whoever is stupid and industrious is a menace and must be removed immediately!

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    Another Ian

    “RACE IS NOT A SOCIAL CONSTRUCT – IT’S IN OUR DNA”

    “This contradicts the theory which is currently accepted by many sociologists, that ethnicity and race are socially constructed with no biological underpinning. It also has profound implications for the current multiculturalist dogma that drives our immigration policy.”

    More at

    http://pickeringpost.com/story/race-is-not-a-social-construct-it-s-in-our-dna/8346

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    Edwina

    Just read a science article about how drones are being used to test gas from volcanoes. They are cheaper, safer and more accurate than using manned aircraft. The main idea is to measure the amount of CO2 being emitted.

    It seems that when the CO2 level starts to rise it indicates a possible eruption soon.

    So vulcanologists are not too proud to deny CO2 comes from volcanoes. And consider the number of volcanoes on land and the unknown number under the oceans.

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    • #
      Edwina

      err…meant to say “not to proud to admit…”

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      TdeF

      The amount of each element goes down with weight, each being formed by collisions inside stars. The heavier, the less there is. As #6 and #8, Carbon and Oxygen are up there with Hydrogen, Helium though helium escapes our gravity and we only get it from radioactive decay.

      So possibly the most common oxide in the world is Carbon Dioxide. It’s not our fault!

      In fact CO2+H20+sunlight => (CO2)m(H2O)n is the core creation of life, the formation of hydrated carbon dioxide. We call it Carbohydrate. This powers every lifeform and has created the free oxygen we breathe, as those poor boys in the cave will discover. Without photosynthesis you need to pump in oxygen.

      Only the mad Greens would deny photoynthesis and blame CO2 for the very slight warming over 100 years. Only power mad Greens would demand punitive taxes on CO2. Only Greens could call Carbon Dioxide ‘pollution’ and ‘emissions’.

      So I confess. I am generating 14% CO2 with every breath. I am generating 3 tonnes of CO2 a year all on my own. Sorry. The other 7 billion people on the planet are also responsible for breathing, people in number who were not on the planet a century ago. Get rid of the people and the CO2 will go down? No. The ants probably generate more CO2 than all humans put together. There should be an ant tax.

      Get rid of the people, the cattle, the camels, the sheep, the dogs and cats, the fish, the birds, the termites and the planet will be saved. For whom? For what? Even trees output CO2 at night. Thoughtless carbon dioxide life.

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        TdeF

        The other even more prolific molecule is nasty H2O. Industrial pollutant. The very worst Greenhouse gas. Blocks everything. Causes most terrific storms. Drowns people. Washes cities away. Is the Tidal wave, the Tsunami. H2O is the real problem and is it caused entirely by man made combustion of fossil fuels. So a water emissions tax will control this nasty pollutant. Exactly the same logic as CO2.

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        • #
          Graeme No.3

          TdeF:

          Don’t give them ideas.

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          • #
            Greg Cavanagh

            They could go crazy over a water tax. I understand some countries impose a rain tax. Then we have Mother England with their window tax and BBC tax.

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            • #
              Lucky

              We, those of us in WA, already have a water tax disguised as a set of tariffs when we pay for water. The cost of water supply in much lower than the revenue, the excess goes to the state government as dividends from the Water Corp.

              30

            • #
              James Murphy

              South Australians pay a wealth tax associated with their water bills. One of the charges (sewage, if I recall) is directly linked to the value of the property. This, along with a significant “supply charge”, meant that unless one was to live in a worthless hovel, then actual water usage represents a really small part of the bill.

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              • #
                Graeme No.3

                Actual water usage just over 34% in my case. Comes with a “free message” about saving money by using less water.

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        • #
          Dave in the States

          There are two ways to make the public more aware and get them backing action to this threat, both using language:

          First, we must stop using the term water and use dihyrdomonoxide or something to that effect in the the peer reviewed literature.

          Next, we must refer to it as “hydrogen pollution” in MSM communications, and in common conversation.

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      • #
        TdeF

        Apologies. The quantity goes up as the weight goes down. The most abundant is Hydrogen, from which everything else is made, apparently. Who made the hydrogen is a good question.

        However Hydrogen, Helium, Lithium, Berylium, Boron, Carbon, Nitrogen, Oxygen.

        Four these are critical to our existence, especially in combination, the basis of all organic chemistry.

        So to wage a war on Carbon Dioxide or say Calcium Carbonate or even Carbo Hydrates is to wage a war on life on Earth. Its as sensible as water is a pollutant, a very dangerous pollutant.

        Still, that’s the Green way. Self hate. Stop everything. Elites who think the ‘deplorables’ are ruining their planet. The Eloi from HG Wells Time Machine, indulged and self indulgent. Ignorant of chemistry as well.

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    TdeF

    It’s the same with airconditioning, where we are forced to pay $800 taxes per kg to regas airconditioners to save the ozone layer. So it is cheaper to buy a entirely new regassed Chinese unit than to regas the old one. This to save the ozone over the bottom third of the planet where 2% live and not over the rest of the planet where 98% of humanity lives. Like CO2, with only 0.25% of the world’s population and 1% of ‘emissions’, why are we paying punitive taxes for a problem which should logically exist at the North pole, not the South pole?

    Clearly wrong, made up science turned into massive Australian taxes which most of the world does not pay. Again.

    Why should Australia pay billions in taxes when 99% of all so called pollution is generated by huge countries which pay nothing? Who pays our politicians? China?

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      Edwina

      Long ago I read an article by a radio operator who took part in Australian expeditions to Antarctica in the 1950s.

      He discovered there was a hole in the ozone layer by way of his sending and receiving of radio signals. It was worse in the winter night.

      He took it that it was something that was always there long before his time and instruments.

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      • #
        ROM

        There have been a very few, very brief references that the Japanese prior to WW2 when they were doing extensive reconnaissance throughout the Pacific incuding radio transmission and receiving experiments for ultra long range communication in an obvious prepearation for the IJN [ Imperial Japanese Navy ] to strike south to extend Japanese hegemony over all of SE and Central Asia.

        The Japanese reputedly became aware that something was quite different in the ozone layer and /or the ionosphere down near the almost completely unknown at that time, Antarctic continent, which atmospheric layers the long wave radio waves used for long range communications in those pre-WW2 days, pass through to the ionosphere where they are reflected back to the ground surface hundreds or thousands of kilomeres distance from the transmitter.

        So it appears that it is possible but unproven that the pre WW2 IJN had stumbled onto a phenomena that is now known as the Ozone Hole.

        The Ozone hole debacle of the late 1980′s has been described as the scientific training run for the global warming / climate change cult.

        Any records that might have existed of the IJN’s knowledge of differences in long wave radio propogation in the Southern and Antarctic oceans was probably destroyed within days of the Japanese announcement of its surrender when a great records burning of any and all potentially incriminating documents was carried out by the Japanese authorities.

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    • #
      ROM

      Relax TdeF! @ #13

      The Chinese have done it again, completely stuffed up some all embracing UN backed and binding [ ??? ] international agreement to save the planet all over again and make all the western politicians feel virtuous and smug at their own cleverness.

      Meanwhile as has been pointed out in no uncertain terms in so many places , we here in the west are stuck with an inferior product for Fridges and A/ C’s and fire fighting equipment and etc whilst the Third world goes on its merry way “polluting and destroying the planet” [ Yeh! right ! ] in their attempts to make a better life for their people.

      From the BBC site a few minutes ago;

      Ozone hole mystery: China insulating chemical said to be source of rise

      quoted;
      Cut-price Chinese home insulation is being blamed for a massive rise in emissions of a gas, highly damaging to the Earth’s protective ozone layer.
      The Environmental Investigations Agency (EIA) found widespread use of CFC-11 in China, even though the chemical was fully banned back in 2010.

      20

  • #
    TdeF

    It’s the same with airconditioning, where we are forced to pay $800 taxes per kg to regas airconditioners to save the ozone layer. So it is cheaper to buy a entirely new regassed Chinese unit than to regas the old one. This to save the ozone over the bottom third of the planet where 2% live and not over the rest of the planet where 98% of humanity lives. Like CO2, with only 0.25% of the world’s population and 1% of ‘emissions’, why are we paying punitive taxes for a problem which should logically exist at the North pole, not the South pole?

    Clearly wrong, made up science turned into massive Australian taxes which most of the world does not pay. Again.

    Why should Australia pay billions in taxes when 99% of all so called pollution is generated by huge countries which pay nothing? Who pays our politicians? China?

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    • #
      Lucky

      Donna Laframboise pays in Canadian dollars 13.2c / kWh.
      In Western Australia it is 28c Australian per kWh.
      Why so much higher? See any of Jo Nova’s posts!

      We have much good quality coal and gas, but the bills include large contributions to the cost of so-called renewables which generate little power plus the carbon taxes, plus subsidies to solar panels, plus the rake-off to government ..

      30

  • #
    Lance

    The Rooftop Solar Scam.

    Very good article:

    https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/07/the_incredible_scam_of_rooftop_solar.html

    Apparently, using 40 cent/kwh subsidized electricity to offset 2 cents/kwh fuel costs isn’t very smart.

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  • #
    Ruairi

    A hockey stick is what the U.N. needed,
    To have alarmist climate changes heeded.

    To cool the Earth and run a cheaper grid,
    Australia must of sheep and cows be rid.

    What joy to see a noctilucent sight,
    In clouds that shine through darkness in the night.

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  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Uh oh….

    https://yournewswire.com/global-warming-scientist-theory/amp/

    The scientist widely known as the “Father of Global Warming” has admitted for the first time that data used to promote his climate change theory was false and fradulently manipulated by Al Gore to suit an agenda.

    In 1986 the former NASA scientist, James Hansen, testified to Congress during a hearing on global warming organized by then-Congressman Al Gore to produce scientific models based on a number of different scenarios that could impact the planet.

    According to Hansen, Al Gore took the data provided in a “worst-case scenario” and intentionally twisted it, rebranding it as “Global Warming,” making tens of millions of dollars in the process.

    The model was titled “Scenario B” and was one of many provided to Congress by Hansen, however it left out significant factors meaning it didn’t reflect real-world conditions. This didn’t stop Al Gore and climate alarmists using the data to mislead millions of people all over the world.”

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      Edwina

      Hansen or Gore or both used Venus with a C2 atmosphere as an example of what could happen to earth if too much CO2 was present in the atmosphere.

      Of course a day on Venus is well over 100 of our days. The atmosphere is so dense that at the surface the pressure is more than at the deepest trench in our oceans. And it is many millions of miles closer to the sun. But this doesn’t seem to matter.

      Hansen said that we would be like Venus and our oceans would boil away like he presumes happened on Venus. Not that anyone has proof.

      But everyone fell for the story.

      40

  • #
    el gordo

    Paris Agreement

    ‘Coalition MP Craig Kelly echoed the latest rationale given by Mr Abbott for leaving the agreement that he signed up to as prime minister.’ Oz

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    • #
      David Maddison

      Abbott signed it but did not ratify it. Turnbull ratified it.

      Tony admits he was mislead by his advisors who obviously worked for the Deep State.

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      • #
        el gordo

        Agreed, it was aspirational because Tony is a lukewarmer and the deep state bureaucracy ran rings around him.

        He took the brunt of abuse from the green’left panel on the Insiders this morning, no wonder we have mass delusion.

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        • #
          Greg Cavanagh

          He now states that he was suckered. That’s a good honest start. Hopefully he’s learned how easy that is and will stand up for himself next time. Come on Tony, we need you to Make Australia Great Again.

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        • #
          TdeF

          You keep saying that. There is no evidence of this continual Abbott is luke warmer assessment. He is a politician and if you want to remove a carbon tax, you have to get elected. So his direct action scheme, a great net benefit, much lower cost and no carbon tax. Of course it was the first thing Malcolm stopped. As Tony Abbott said at the time. “Since when does the Liberal party enact Green party policy”. Abbott’s view is that if you want to capture CO2, just grow more trees. That does not make him a luke warmer. That is simply logical.

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          • #
            el gordo

            Direct Action was great for the bush and the Nats supported it, so taking it away was not a clever move. Which is why the Coalition is now in disarray.

            On the Insiders they ridiculed Abbott for saying he didn’t understand the science when he first signed on, one of the lesser wits reckoned Tony didn’t understand climate change then or now.

            I would like Tony to say something useful to prove he is now scientifically literate, otherwise he’s a lukewarmer like Bjorn Lomborg. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

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            • #
              TdeF

              I spoke to him on Wednesday. He said he was not a scientist. Few are. He does not need to be.

              However he was very attentive and understood and appreciated my two quick points, one science and one legal. Both would wipe out the RET. Remember he is the one who said publicly “climate change is socialism masquerading as environmentalism”. I know many scientists who agree but will not and dare not say anything. He was there to support Bob Carter’s memory and Dr Peter Ridd’s reality. He may not be a scientist but he is no luke warmer. There are simply too many people in Australia convinced Climate Change is a problem and reality for any practical politician to call it an outright hoax, which it is.

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              • #
                David Maddison

                I was there too TdeF, too bad we missed each other and Annie as well.

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              • #
                Annie

                Yes, a pity. My husband and beththeserf were there too; we would like to have met you as we really like your comments. My OH has just been reading them, as have I, and we both agree so much with what you say.
                Bring back Tony Abbott. From my own point of view, no Tony, no vote for the Liberals or Nats, despite liking the Nat candidate here in Indi. It would be good to have an AC candidate here but haven’t heard of one yet. We can’t stand…too old and dual citizens!

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              • #
                Annie

                TdeF, I think you meant Tuesday btw!

                30

              • #
                TdeF

                Wednesday was obviously deja vu day. I think I suffer from deja vu. Maybe. Or that could be the Alzheimers. Maybe.

                30

              • #
                TdeF

                Next time, we wear our pseudonym badges, for those who have such. Real names are so confusing.

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              • #
                Annie

                I nearly did, make a badge with my online name, that is. If we come to such an event in future I will do just that (or wear a silly hat :) ). As it was, I did ask some groups whether they followed Jo’s blog, in the hopes of discovering other contributors from here.
                I’d better desist from further reading and brave the rain to catch up with a few chores outside. Sheep already sorted, chooks also.

                30

              • #
                el gordo

                ‘There are simply too many people in Australia convinced Climate Change is a problem and reality for any practical politician to call it an outright hoax, which it is.’

                There is nothing wrong with him taking the lukewarm position, I’m tending that way myself, but I still think he needs to communicate the idea so the electorate understand in soundbites. He served his apprenticeship as a journalist, Tony is a wordsmith.

                The impact of increasing CO2 on the environment is negligible and not catastrophic as we have been led to believe. Its the middle way for a practical politician.

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              • #
                el gordo

                For those who may have missed his London speech, Tony covers every aspect of the debate.

                http://tonyabbott.com.au/2017/10/transcript-hon-tony-abbott-mp-address-global-warming-policy-foundation-westminster-london/

                Nicely crafted .

                30

      • #
        Hanrahan

        Turnbull ratified it days after Trump’s election and then, before the inauguration, made a deal with Obama re refugees that he knew would get up Donald’s nose. No wonder the first phone call between them was brief and testy.

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  • #
    Robber

    The wind is blowing in July. Since last Tuesday, according to Anero.id, wind has been consistently generating electricity above 3,000 MW with a capacity factor of 60-70%. And voila, per AEMO, wholesale prices for July to date are averaging $60/MWhr, well down on June when they averaged $80-100/MWhr and wind generation averaged 1,500 MW, with swings from 0-3,000 MW.

    As Tony’s great daily analysis shows, when wind power is high, it’s natural gas fired power and hydro which have lower numbers. Wind has been delivering 14% of demand, while coal continues to deliver about 75% of demand.

    But are the pundits right? If more wind and solar come on stream creating more surplus capacity, will prices fall? That depends on the reaction of gas and hydro generators. Gas has been generating just 600-700 MW each day this week, whereas in the previous week it was delivering an average of 2,200 MW. Clearly when the wind doesn’t blow, that’s when they get the opportunity to maximise their income.

    How will the grid operate reliably when intermittent wind and solar double their average output? Presumably this is part of AEMO’s role, see Power System Requirements. But it’s hard to find their future scenarios. This AEMO chart shows enormous proposed growth in wind up to 24,000 MW and solar to 20,000 over the next 10 years, but I couldn’t find any detailed analysis. Perhaps that is now the responsibility of the Energy Security Board that is due to report to state and federal governments on the National Energy Guarantee in August.

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    • #
      Kinky Keith

      The important thing, Robber, is that when you burn gas, it doesn’t create CO2 emissions.

      30

    • #
      Hanrahan

      Gas has been generating just 600-700 MW each day this week, whereas in the previous week it was delivering an average of 2,200 MW.

      A gas producer, Santos for example, faced with choosing between an export contract of constant cu/ft at international price or a domestic one where the takeoff is highly variable will choose the contract with guaranteed take off. It isn’t only coal that hates variability. Even hydro, if they have the water, doesn’t want to pass up the profit to be made while generating.

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    • #
      David Maddison

      I don’t understand how wind (and probably solar) can grow to the target levels when their claimed lifetimes (25 yrs for windmills) are much less than their real ones (12-15 yrs for windmills).

      By 2030 nearly all today’s installed windmills will be dead.

      And we’ll be well into massive global cooling and on the way to our next Ice Age, which has been the normal state of the planet for the last 2 million years, not the infrequent and short interglacials we now live in.

      This graph show the interglacials over just the last 400,000 years.

      https://geology.utah.gov/wp-content/uploads/ice_ages2.gif

      I doubt any Leftist (US = Liberal) has even heard of an Ice Age.

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    TdeF

    Around the world, the outrageous story of “the rise and fall of tech ‘genius’ Elizabeth Holmes exposes the jaw-dropping audaciousness of her lies.” Even Rupert Murdoch was in for $150million. A billionaire.

    I wonder if I will ever see the same write up of that other non scientist, billionaire Al Gore? Plus his acolytes Michael Mann and Tim Flannery and James Hansen. World fame based on tree rings and a whole massive industry is born, as big as the entire world steel industry. I wonder.

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      Hanrahan

      I remember reading about her blood tests when it was all still new. It was an impressive story and there would have been a lot of money made had it been true. It’s only in 20/20 hind sight that it was always too good to be true.

      I think she believed that she could deliver, that it wasn’t a straight out con job.

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    Lance

    Changing a light bulb at 457 meters.

    A little over twice the hub height of a current day wind turbine, 220 meters.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1BgzIZRfT8

    Somebody’s got to do it. Glad it isn’t me.

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    Graeme No.3

    I’ve been wondering lately about the increasing hysteria of the Left. Is it a sign that they think they have control or is it a frantic effort to entrench their schemes before a rollback starts?
    Trump has had an unsettling effect on their belief of inevitable victory. Brexit was not good but they have been busy since trying to reverse that decision. But on top of that has come a series of electoral defeats with much of Middle Europe abandoning socialist parties, along with Italy, and the devastation of the Liberal cause in Ontario where they now want to get rid of any carbon tax. It is true that they’ve had a minor success in NZ and in California, but turning them into another venezuelan mess won’t be helpful for the cause.

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      Graeme No.3

      Rats!
      Was meaning to preview.

      The other trouble they have is the start of the solar minimum and the ever increasing evidence of the Climate changing to cool, with the ever increasing number of climate scientists supporting the notion that things will be cooler for the next few decades. The claims of 97% agreement are looking very hollow. There has been a change in trolling with far less attempts to influence the science based blogs such as this, and more attempts to stifle debate in the media.
      Is there a Troll Central? The ludicrous SOD disappeared from NoTricksZone and was replaced by the more implacable SebastianH, but now he seems to be waning in his efforts to convince readers that Up is Down, and the Sun rises in the West. Equally we get very few comments here from the gullibles as they content themselves with occasional red thumbs.
      The usual suspects are evident in the comments in The Australia – sillyfilly (remember her? Stan, Peter (the one who make up his own ‘facts’) and Patricia, although there must now be 2 Patricias as a couple of recent comments have been sensible and very far from the leftish dogma. (That alone will confuse the gullibles).
      It is looking a bit like a desperate rear guard action trying to avoid it turning into a Retreat from Moscow scenario. The open revolt now happening on the conservative side of politics as Turnbull tries to destroy Australia’s economy is another sign. Another 2 years with cold winters as there will be a fullscale rout.

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      • #
        Hanrahan

        although there must now be 2 Patricias as a couple of recent comments have been sensible and very far from the leftish dogma.

        Is she still saving the reef and the 64,000 jobs it provides?

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        • #
          Graeme No.3

          Hanrahan:

          Yes, although I mostly turn to the comments on articles about electricity supply. But 2 comments came up recently so far from her usual nonsense that I assumed that another Patricia made them. Much like there are at least 4 Peters and 3 Graemes.

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          • #
            Bushkid

            And let us not forget the unsinkable (unfortunately) conrad is a winner again (in his own underpants), nor the indefatigable letter-writer Chris roylance, who are still faithfully plodding along in support of the CAGW rubbish.

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            • #
              Graeme No.3

              Bushkid:
              I don’t bother reading anything from “Conrad is a winner again” on the grounds that not only is he a loony but also that he is incohent.
              Roylance I think gets included because the editor wants a letter from the ‘other side’ to balance the selection.

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          • #
            Graeme#4

            I’m one of the “Graeme’s”. Not sure if I can change my subscription info to automatically show me as #4. Was there ever a #2?

            00

      • #
        RickWill

        Where is HarryT? There are still red thumbs although I see a few times where the mouse hover was to blame!

        On the other side of the debate, where is WillJ. I have not seen Will J since I found a climate scientist who has verified that there is no such physical thing as “back radiation”.

        Maybe global warming is near dead – catastrophic climate change has waning support.

        I think the war front is now at places like reneweconomy and macrobusiness where sources of ambient power generation for the grid still get favourable support.

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        Graeme#4

        Have you noticed the favourite troll trick in The Zoz is to try and submit the most recent comments?

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  • #
    John Watt

    Just a Queensland based comment, although other States have made the same surrender. Isn’t the bag thing just another instance (along with agw) of the “feel gooders” getting their own way? They just find another defenceless group ,this time the whales, to “protect” and then they go on one of their crusades. This time they struck a gold-mine…for the Coles/Woolies/Aldi oligopoly. So because 2% of “single use “ bags “find” their way into the ocean the rest of us (98%) have to waste time in longer supermarket queues while the random bag process drags on. Effectively the “feel gooders” have surrendered to the bogan bag dumpers who can’t be bothered looking for bins. Genuine democracy at work…98% of us say use the bin, 2% won’t, so we yield to the 2%! Meanwhile our “representative” democracy leaders go along for the ride.Are they scared that the bogan backlash might affect their “popularity”?

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    beowulf

    And you think a couple of potholes in your street is bad. Check the 3rd photo. I think someone needs to brush up on their recipe for tarring a road. A lot less molasses in the mix would be a good start.

    Extreme heat gets the blame. How extreme was the heat on the Atherton Tableland? Nearby Mareeba Airport recorded a max temp of 25 deg C on 4/7/18 when the tar “melted”. How come all the other nearby tar didn’t melt? It took 3 ABC reporters to write the story so it must be true.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-05/melting-road-in-far-north-queensland/9942800

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      beowolf:

      Wrong choice of bitumen emulsion. Cheaper version (anionic) is more sensitive to water before it finally sets. They admit there was rain there just after application, so that is more likely cause than The Phantom Heat (caused by Global Warming of course).

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    • #
      Dennis

      Apparently Londoners are suffering a “blistering heatwave” according to television news last night, 28C.

      I have been there in the 1970s and 1990s when “heatwave” conditions resulted in over 30C.

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  • #

    I didn’t want to muscle in on the excellent comment at Number 1 from john, about how we didn’t have that ‘green thing’ back in our time, and when I received that same email from a friend in Stockton CA, it also made me think as well.

    Consider this.

    1949

    The population of the U.S. is 149 Million people, and the total power consumption is around 254TWH.

    2018

    The population of the U.S. is 326 million and the total power consumption is around 3800TWH.

    The population has risen by a factor a little higher than TWO.

    The electricity consumption has risen by a factor of almost FIFTEEN.

    And where did all that power generation for that increased power consumption come from?

    Yep! You guessed correctly.

    See the graph at this link for where all that power came from. (hint – look under the graph and you’ll see what those BLUE dots indicate)

    The article of mine this graph is from is at the following link, if anyone is interested.

    The Benefits That Coal Fired Power Gave Us

    Tony.

    (and incidentally, see that total power consumption for 1949 for 149 million people, well, that’s just a little more than we generate now here in Australia with a population of only 25 million)

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    OriginalSteve

    Having a conversation with a grren voting relative this weekend, i said the age newspaper has the nickname of ” pravda on the yarra”. My relative said the newspaper was “conservative”, and that tony abbott was a loon….

    Er…hang on…

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  • #
    Dennis

    Too many of our politicians have moved left of centre to far left of centre and now most are left of centre.

    They refer to the traditional Liberals as being far right which is in my view centre to centre right, the traditional Australian Liberal Party political position.

    I remember during the 1980s when NSW Labor Premier Wran recommended that Hawke Labor Canberra claim the middle ground, a tactic to push the Coalition further to the right of centre. The reason being that research indicated that on average Australians are or were conservative and hovering closely right or left of the centre.

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    • #
      Kinky Keith

      That’s left me right out of it.

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    • #
      Dennis

      I have been reminded that the political position of the average Australian is highlighted by the long term voting trend, until more recent times 80 per cent voted Coalition or Labor Greens, including swinging voters moving from one side to the other.

      Some months ago former PM Howard commented that the trend is changing with the two party groups attracting closer to 60 per cent between them. Obviously the trend changes by electorate and even by polling booth areas.

      What it tells me is that 10-12 per cent of voters are dissatisfied with both major sides.

      The 2010 federal election was a shock for Gillard Labor following the substantial victory of Rudd Labor in 2007. The Abbott led Coalition effectively defeated Gillard Labor and forced them to form alliances and then a minority government. It was a “hung parliament”.

      By 2013 the Abbott led Coalition defeated Rudd Labor in a landslide victory.

      During the 2007 to 2013 period Labor changed leader twice, Rudd to Gillard and Gillard back to Rudd.

      During the 2013 to 2015 period the Coalition changed (Liberal PM) leader, Abbott to Turnbull.

      When PM Rudd was replaced Opposition Leader Turnbull lectured Labor that changing a first term leader was the wrong thing to do.

      To cut a long story short, voters I believe are not happy, we do not feel comfortable, indeed we are worried about the governance of our nation and the apparent external affairs focus of the leaders leading to our declining national affairs and economic outlook.

      Considering that at the 2016 election the Turnbull led Coalition lost the majority won by the Abbott led Coalition, and then looking back at the 2010 hung parliament result, could it be that 2019 is revolution year when the no longer representing us politicians are dismissed?

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    pat

    7 Jul: Bloomberg: Sinovel Must Pay $59 Million as Punishment in Trade Secrets Case
    By Christie Smythe
    Chinese turbine maker Sinovel Wind Group Co. must pay $59 million for stealing trade secrets from wind technology firm, American Superconductor Corp., a U.S. judge ruled.
    Sinovel was found guilty in January of the theft in a rare criminal trade-secrets trial that called into question whether China is doing enough to clamp down on infringement of intellectual property, while escalating tensions between the countries…

    Collection of restitution from the Chinese firm was seen as difficult. American Superconductor reached a settlement with Sinovel, filed in court Wednesday, under which it agreed to pay the $57.5 million…

    Prosecutors said Sinovel, now China’s largest wind turbine manufacturer, contracted with a former AMSC employee in Austria to steal the code in 2011, and then refused to pay the U.S. firm for $800 million in products and services it had promised to buy. The software system, called Low Voltage Ride Through was designed to help regulate the flow of electricity into a power grid.

    AMSC, based in Devens, Massachusetts, had sought more than $1.2 billion in damages from Beijing-based Sinovel in Chinese courts, accusing the company of putting the stolen source code in more than 1,000 turbines. According to the Justice Department, AMSC suffered a loss of more than $1 billion in shareholder equity and almost 700 jobs, over half its global workforce.

    Although Sinovel had been providing long-term maintenance for some U.S. projects, it “fled from the United States” in 2013 “in attempt to avoid facing prosecution,” prosecutors said in a June 26 court filing…
    Judge Peterson found during a hearing on Friday that AMSC’s losses exceeded $550 million, warranting a maximum fine of $1.5 million. Sinovel has already paid $32.5 million of the restitution it promised the U.S. firm. Peterson put the company on a year’s probation during which it will be expected to pay an additional $25 million…
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-06/sinovel-must-pay-59-million-as-punishment-in-trade-secrets-case

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    pat

    behind paywall:

    6 Jul: UK Times: Emily Gosden: ‘Noisy democracies’ block climate progress for Shell
    The boss of Royal Dutch Shell has said it is easier to make progress on climate change in countries such as China than in “noisy democracies” such as Britain.
    Ben van Beurden, chief executive, complained yesterday that the world was spending too much time and effort arguing about how to tackle global warming instead of taking action.
    “In places like China it works very well, governments work very gratefully with us and adopt really incredibly pragmatic and powerful policies, sensible, etc. Here, there are more participants in the debate, let me put it that way,” Mr Van Beurden said.
    The world “really needs more clear signals from its leaders” in order to meet the goals of the Paris climate agreement, which seeks to prevent dangerous warming by curbing global emissions, the Shell boss added…

    5 Jul: Reuters: Shell CEO says ‘foolhardy’ to set carbon reduction targets
    by Ron Bousso
    LONDON: Royal Dutch Shell’s boss said it would be “foolhardy” for the oil and gas producer to set hard targets to reduce carbon emissions as it risked exposing the energy giant to legal challenges.
    Shell Chief Executive Officer Ben van Beurden last year set out ambitions last year to halve its carbon emissions by 2050, far exceeding rivals. But the Dutch CEO resisted calls by activists and some investors to set binding targets.
    “It would be somewhat foolhardy to put ourselves in a legal bind by saying these are the targets we will adopt,” van Beurden said at a company event.
    “Before we put ourselves at the mercy of a legal challenge, I want to make sure we are doing the right thing first.”

    Van Beurden, a vocal proponent of the world’s need to meet the Paris goals, urged investors to trust him.
    “You have to believe us that setting an ambition, sticking my neck out, my personal reputation, the reputation of the company, is a big enough incentive to get it right,” he told reporters…

    BP this year announced plans to keep carbon emissions from its operations flat until 2025. But BP CEO Bob Dudley echoed van Beurden’s concerns at the company’s annual general meeting in May and refused to disclose details of the plan.
    “You want to get us to make statements here in front of you that you can document that will lead to a class action,” Dudley said in response to a question from a shareholder…

    “It is more sensible to say we will go faster than society, we will catch up with society on its way to meeting Paris,” van Beurden said on Thursday.
    “It is a very clear ambition, we will articulate this ambitions in steps as we go along the way. We will be totally transparent.”
    https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-shell-carbon/shell-ceo-says-setting-hard-targets-for-carbon-emission-would-be-foolhardy-idUKKBN1JV0ZY

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    pat

    6 Jul: Reuters: Colorado forecasters scale back 2018 Atlantic hurricane threat
    by Erwin Seba
    HOUSTON: Colorado State University forecasters cut their estimate of storm activity during the 2018 Atlantic hurricane season, citing cooler ocean temperatures and the likely formation of a weak El Niño…
    Only one major hurricane is expected, according to their updated forecast issued on Monday…
    The U.S. National Ocean and Atmospheric Administration said in late May that its forecasters estimated between one and four major hurricanes…
    https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-weather-hurricane-forecast/colorado-forecasters-scale-back-2018-atlantic-hurricane-threat-idUKKBN1JV332

    7 Jul: Time: Hurricane Beryl Has Been Downgraded to a Tropical Storm. Here’s Where it’s Headed
    By Billy Perrigo
    Hurricane Beryl was downgraded to a tropical storm Saturday morning, after being named the first hurricane of this year’s Atlantic hurricane season on Friday.
    The path of the relatively tiny Tropical Storm Beryl is currently tracking westwards through the Atlantic in the general direction of Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic and Haiti…

    The NHC is also warning that changes to Beryl’s intensity will be “difficult to predict” due to its very small size.
    “Confidence in the official intensity forecast is also lower than normal,” the Center warned. “Rapid changes in intensity, both up and down, that are difficult to predict are possible during the next couple days.”…
    The first named storm of the 2018 Atlantic hurricane season, subtropical storm Alberto, failed to reach hurricane status…

    Some experts have raised concerns that climate change might be generating stronger hurricanes, while climate scientists have warned the 2018 hurricane season (LINK) could be worse than usual.
    http://time.com/5331664/hurricane-beryl-path-track/

    links to itself:

    5 Apr: Time: Forecasters Are Warning This Year’s Hurricane Season Will Be Worse Than Usual
    By Justin Worland
    This year’s hurricane season is shaping to be another big one with a greater than 60% chance of a major hurricane hitting the U.S. coastline, according to a new forecast from top meteorologists.
    Researchers at Colorado State University estimate that seven hurricanes and 14 named storms will form during this year’s Atlantic hurricane season with the intensity of the season slightly above the average from recent decades…

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  • #
    pat

    6 Jul: Reuters: Michel Rose: Macron gathers world’s top sovereign funds to send climate signal
    PARIS: Sovereign wealth funds managing more than $2 trillion are to lay out a strategy on Friday in Paris to pressure companies to be more climate-friendly, French officials said.
    President Emmanuel Macron, who has cast himself as the guardian of the Paris agreement on climate change since Washington announced it would pull out, is championing the initiative, which will bring together the heads of six sovereign funds to thrash out a pro-environment investment framework.
    The guidelines, which funds will ask the companies they invest in to meet, are expected to influence other big asset managers, French presidential advisers said.
    “Beyond the colossal amounts these funds manage, it’s the snowball effect we’re betting on,” one adviser at Macron’s office said. “By getting them to make this joint pledge, there will be a ricochet effect spreading across global finance.”

    With five of the funds coming from oil-rich nations – Abu Dhabi, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Norway – and the sixth from New Zealand, the Elysee dismissed suggestions the funds could just be opportunistically jumping on the climate bandwagon.
    “They could have told us: that’s none of your business,” the adviser said. “So a big part of our work has been to create trust and show there is political leadership to get them moving, showcase them. It’s not greenwashing.”

    Lawrence Yanovitch, an American national who is coordinating the initiative, said the funds understood it was in their financial interest to take account of the risks of climate change in their investments and that most of their countries were already seeking to transition toward low-carbon economies.
    “They also see a business opportunity,” the former Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation investment manager said. “Financial markets are risky because they don’t take these (climate) risks into account.”
    The guidelines will include obligations for companies to calculate their carbon footprints, he said…

    Macron took a dig at Trump at the time, saying he would not give up the fight and will “make our planet great again.”
    That, and Macron’s background as a former investment banker, encouraged the sovereign funds to work with France on the framework, Yanovitch said.
    “They see him as a committed leader on climate,” he said. “He’s got this background, he’s a banker. He understood that the funds were the strategic entry point. If you motivate them, it will cascade down.”
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-climatechange/macron-gathers-worlds-top-sovereign-funds-to-send-climate-signal-idUSKBN1JW0IF?feedType=RSS&feedName=environmentNews

    5 Jul: EurActiv: France’s contradictory climate ambitions
    By Aline Robert
    While French President Emmanuel Macron fights the corner of climate diplomacy, actions carried out by the French government led by Edouard Philippe mainly defend industrial interests. EURACTIV.fr reports.
    Many of those who initially supported Macron have now become critical in the face of increasingly contradictory decisions. In June, the authorisation of the Mède palm oil refinery only increased criticism.

    At European level, France remains quiet on the subject. Minister for Ecological Transition Nicolas Hulot Is playing a hiding game, “we do not see him”, stated a source at the Commission’s climate directorate, which helms climate talks on behalf of the 28 member states.
    The former journalist does not come to the Council of Ministers, unlike his diligent colleagues. In one year, he only travelled to Brussels and Luxembourg once.

    Most often, France sends representatives to the meetings of environment ministers. The Bulgarian presidency of the EU Council had been shocked to welcome on several occasions ministry officials rather than the minister himself or his secretary of state Brune Poirson, for meetings held in Sofia in the spring…

    France is trying to implement a strategy to tackle imported deforestation, but at the same time it gives energy giant Total operating licences for biofuels from palm oil and gives the green light for the exploitation of a gold mine in Guyana that could destroy 575 hectares of forests…
    https://www.euractiv.com/section/climate-environment/news/frances-contradictory-climate-ambitions

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    pat

    behind paywall:

    7 Jul: UK Times: Andrew Ellson: Mis-sold boilers cost homeowners hundreds of millions in extra bills
    Homeowners are being mis-sold on the efficiency of boilers in a labelling scandal that is costing consumers hundreds of millions of pounds a year, an investigation by The Times has found.

    Energy performance labels are typically overstating the efficiency of boilers by 10 per cent because the official EU tests used to generate the scores do not reflect how most people heat their homes, according to a whistleblower.

    Speaking on the condition of anonymity, he said: “Consumers are being misled into thinking they are buying products that are more efficient than they actually are. If boilers operated at the efficiency levels stated, it would save every household £85 a year and deliver almost a third of the carbon savings needed from homes under the 2030 Paris Accord.”

    Under EU efficiency rules, every boiler sold must have a water heating score from A to G. Most of the 1.7 million boilers sold in the UK each year have an A rating, indicating an efficiency of 80 per cent or above. However, the tests used to get these grades bear little relation to real-world operation…
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/mis-sold-boilers-cost-homeowners-hundreds-of-millions-in-extra-bills-b86rmt9r8

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    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Gosh…reminds of car milage official figures, which are usually generated in non real world conditions…..

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      • #
        RicDre

        I think that the people who calculate the official car mileage figures may also program the computers in cars that calculate car mileage. Whenever I fill up the tank on my Suburu Forester, I manually compute the Miles Per Gallon figure then compare it to the value computed by the car’s computer and the number I come up with is always about 2 MPG less that what the computer comes up with.

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        • #
          yarpos

          odd isnt it? you would think they would err the other way, so people relying on the range estimate had some margin

          20

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          What percentage difference is that?

          Mind you, once you own a turbo vehicle, most consumption figures are a best guess….they can be thirsty beasts… :-)

          00

          • #
            yarpos

            I once drove a turbo car on a stretch of unrestricted autobahn, you could see the fuel guage dropping, but we were approaching maxed out. I guess I will go to AGW hell for that drive.

            10

  • #
    el gordo

    There is a theory that Australia’s megafauna was extinguished by climate change and not homo sapiens.

    It may have some merit.

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    • #
      Greg Cavanagh

      I believe the martians died out because Climate Change.

      50

    • #
      el gordo

      I’m thinking the desertification of the continent saw the megafauna demise.

      https://theconversation.com/drying-inland-seas-probably-helped-kill-australias-megafauna-37527

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    • #
      TdeF

      No, the timing is precise. The aborigin*s arrived 50,000 years ago. After a hundred million years of evolution, the megafauna died within 1,000 years of their arrival. Even Tim Flannery would agree with that. There are plenty of megafauna bones in caves and natural traps, which show they are a very recent and widespread and sudden extinction. Radio carbon dating could give an exact date.

      There was a US team a few years ago. They came to understand why the rainfall in Australia suddenly halved 50,000 years ago. They found out quickly why. Aborigine*s were stone age and had stone tools but they also had fire, which devastated Australia. Not the forests which routinely went up but the open grasslands and scrub, the habitat of the megafauna. You can still see the richness of the seed base when it rains in WA.

      I was thrilled with Tony Abbott’s attempt to regreen Australia. That is one way we could change the climate. Back to what it was. I also have ways to make it rain by creating updrafts. You could build a 100km black strip, perhaps black beach sand rich in rutile from the Pacific. The updraft on the border of NSW would produce rain and glider, hang glider paradise. I would also flood lake Eyre to the East to create a permanent body of water with high evaporation.

      No, its all about stopping change. Not building dams, spillways, canals,locks. Its about emptying the Currong. It’s about making farming impossible and destroying our fresh water supplies. We can always import our food from Vietnam or Indonesia or New Zealand. I suspect there are no farmers in Canberra.

      If we can change Australia’s climate, why shouldn’t we? Ecology is no longer about making the planet suitable for humans. It is now about not farming anything and huddling in cities where the coffee is good and you can ride a Chinese made bicycle. When did ecology become a rapacious religion?

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      • #
        TdeF

        We should have used the billions flowing overseas in profits from the RET to drought proof Australia. Turkey nest dams. Loss less water transport. Traps for the rare and vast water resources which are just left to evaporate. Changing the colour of the landscape to change the radiative loss. Billions and billions in windmills and solar panels and then the drought comes again, as it always does. There is no point crying Climate Change in the land of rugged mountain ranges, of droughts and flooding rains.

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      • #
        el gordo

        ‘I was thrilled with Tony Abbott’s attempt to regreen Australia.’

        His Green Army was ahead of its time.

        From memory, 60,000 years ago Lake Eyre was three times bigger than its current size, do you think its possible to refill this lake with excess water from the Ord?

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      • #
        David Maddison

        The big lie is that Aborigines were “custodians” of the environment. Firstly, that is nonsense, the natural environment is in equilibrium and looks after itself. Secondly, their “fire farming” technique was environmental vandalism of the most extreme kind, possibly the worst in the history of the world, that permanently changed the flora and fauna of the entire continent and lead to the extinction of numerous species and turned much of the interior into desert.

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        • #
          TdeF

          And you did not survive the real welcome to the country. There is evidence of other groups who came to Australia from cave paintings in the Kimberlies. None survived.

          This business with waving gum leaves about is all invented. There was no country, no nation, no civilization. It is all invented, like the custodians of the land fantasy. As top predator, they also had no natural enemies to force them above family groups to work together for mutual defence. They behaved like the lions of the Serengeti. Small family groups and deadly males.

          Read the amazing life story of William Buckley and his 32 years living with the aborigines around the Bellarine peninsula from 1803 to 1835. He survived only because of his height and very white skin. They thought he was a spirit.

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            TdeF

            I also believe that without agriculture and harvesting grain, without fruit trees there was no sugar, nothing to turn accidentally into alcohol. Even the elephants and giraffes get drunk on rotten fruite.

            So 50,000 years without any acquired resistance to alcohol and like 20% of the Japanese they lack the enzyme to metabolize alcohol, so alcohol is a deadly poison. Many young Japanese students died in the first year at university, until people worked this out.

            However thanks to the myth that everyone is exactly the same, even medically, nothing is recognized. Selling them Beer and wine is like giving lollies to diabetics, but no one says anything. It is a total disgrace. We are too afraid of the consequences of pointing out the obvious differences and that is making life so much worse for abor*gines. Tony Abbott knows this too. Most of the other politicians could not care, as long as they get the [snip "vote of the people with the lack of alcohol processing genes". - Jo]. The same in the US with the Democrats and the black vote. However as Kanye West says, eight years with a black president and no blacks even in Chicago are better off.

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            • #
              TdeF

              I also believe that without agriculture and harvesting grain, without fruit trees there was no sugar, nothing to turn accidentally into alcohol. Even the elephants and giraffes get dr*nk on rotten fruit.

              So 50,000 years without any acquired resistance to alcohol and like 20% of the Japanese they lack the enzyme to metabolize alcohol, so alcohol is a deadly p*ison. Many young Japanese students d*ed in the first year at university, until people worked this out.

              However thanks to the myth that everyone is exactly the same, even medically, nothing is recognized. Selling them Beer and wine is like giving lollies to diabetics, but no one says anything. It is a total disgr*ce. We are too afraid of the consequences of pointing out the obvious differences and that is making life so much worse for abor*gines. Tony Abbott knows this too. Most of the other politicians could not care, as long as they get the abor*ginal vote. The same in the US with the Democrats and the bl*ck vote. However as Kanye West says, eight years with a bl*ck president and no bl*cks even in Chicago are better off.

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          el gordo

          They became ‘custodians’ in the sense that they made the continent their own. An example, a small family group pick up wood along a beaten track some 40,000 years old, clearing the area roundabout of kindling for domestic use at the next camp. These cleared walking tracks would also offer an exit strategy in case of bushfire.

          ‘….their “fire farming” technique was environmental vandalism …’

          A control burn to corner a mob of kangaroos is not vandalism, anyway the change in flora was already happening long before humans turned up. The eucalypts adapted well to this continent, because of the trees combustable nature and regenerative powers. So I argue that lightning strikes are more to blame, not humans, and the proof is to be found in dry Lake George near Canberra.

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        • #
          el gordo

          Lake George is 20 million years old and the evidence I sought has since been refuted, so I cannot say for sure that bushfires have become more common since the arrival of humans. The flora was changing and the new immigrants just took one day at a time.

          http://anpsa.org.au/APOL3/sep96-1.html

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        Tim flannery would not agree with this

        died within 1,000 years of their arrival. Even Tim Flannery would agree with that

        because it is incorrect. Even using large dating errors there were megafauna overlapping for 20000 years on the continent somewhere.

        However I think the debate on this gets mired in a lack of data so it is easy for any claim (hunting or climate) to be easily justified and hard to refute.

        I think the balance points to a large contribution of humans to their loss and it might well be that local extinctions following human contact were much faster than a few thousand years (think moa in NZ or Dodos or passenger pigeons.

        PS the hundred million years thing is completely irrelevant. Every single extinction, no matter the cause, follows about 4 billion years of evolution. What of it?

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    Another Ian

    “REMEMBER HOW COFFEE WAS ALREADY BEING WIPED OUT BY WARMING?”

    “Another busted warming scare – that global warming would wipe out many coffee growers. In fact, that it was destroying crops already. ”

    More at

    https://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/remember-how-coffee-was-already-being-wiped-out-by-warming/news-story/1dbacbd3e01618cae158ce3eddc88c5f

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    pat

    FakeNewsMSM went on overdrive over this. pics tell a different story:

    6 Jul: Mashable: A man got his leg stuck in molten tarmac because the UK is basically melting
    It’s literally so hot in the UK right now that things are actually melting.
    And, one poor chap experienced everyone’s worst nightmare when his leg disappeared into some tarmac that had melted because of the heat.
    by Rachel Thompson
    https://mashable.com/2018/07/06/melted-tarmac-uk/#I7.tzlQuBkqQ

    Man chiselled free by firefighters after his foot gets stuck in melted Tarmac in Newcastle
    The Sun-5 Jul. 2018

    Newcastle man stuck in tarmac after road surface melted in blazing sun
    Local Source-ITV News-5 Jul. 2018

    Man gets leg stuck in molten road
    Dhaka Tribune-17 hours ago

    Man sinks ‘thigh deep’ in road melted by heatwave
    Edmond Sun-6 Jul. 2018

    reply Tweets are hilarious:

    Twitter: Tyne & Wear FRS (Fire & Rescue Service): Tweet 5 Jul: Today we had an incident in Heaton, young man stepped on some tarmac and lost his footing The tarmac had become so soft during the current heatwave that it melted. He stayed calm & called 999 Thankfully he didn’t break his ankle he was wearing his granddads @drmartens! #StaySafe
    reply:
    5 Jul: John Dunne: Don’t you mean a small sinkhole appeared under his foot? Tarmac is just the top surface & can only give way if the ground underneath disappears.
    https://twitter.com/Tyne_Wear_FRS/status/1014918449569689600?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1014918449569689600&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fmashable.com%2F2018%2F07%2F06%2Fmelted-tarmac-uk%2F

    7 Jul: ChronicleLive: Newcastle’s roads are NOT melting in the heatwave, council says
    Photos of a man stuck in a Heaton back lane emerged on Thursday, with fire crews warning of the dangers of soft tarmac
    by Daniel Holland
    Civic centre officials have moved to calm fears over their highways as temperatures on Tyneside continue to soar, after photos emerged of a man who got his foot stuck in a sinkhole that firefighters said was caused by melted tarmac.
    The 24-year-old became trapped in a back lane off Mowbray Street, Heaton, on Thursday morning and is believed to have been stuck in the road for about 20 minutes.
    Firefighters used a hammer and chisel to free him and warned other residents to be more aware of the danger during the hot weather.

    ***However, Newcastle City Council is adamant the road had not melted and that the sinkhole was in fact caused by a pre-existing void.
    A council spokesman said: “A member of the Newcastle City Council Highways team visited the scene in Heaton yesterday along with Tyne and Wear Fire and Rescue, we can confirm that the tarmac had not melted and no roads in the city have melted during the warm weather.
    “We believe this has occurred due to a small existing void under the road and will continue to investigate.”
    The council says none of the roads it manages require any treatment to prevent them being damaged during hot weather…
    https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/newcastles-roads-not-melting-heatwave-14877350

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    • #
      RicDre

      I recently read that they are having a problem with melting roads in Yellowstone National Park in Wyoming, USA though the problem is not heat from above but heat from below; building roads on the remnants of a super volcano can have interesting side effects.

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    pat

    7 Jul: UK Express: UK heatwave: Will 2018 heatwave be worse than 1976?
    THE UK could hit record-breaking temperatures in 2018 if the bookies are right, with the latest odds on the mercury hitting 38.5C slashed to 5/1 – but could the heatwave be worse than the sweltering summer of 1976?
    By Kat Hopps
    In 1976, temperatures soared to 32C or higher over 15 consecutive days, causing the biggest drought in living memory and becoming the one against which all subsequent droughts have been compared…

    Will 2018 heatwave be worse than in 1976?
    Britain has been basking in a heatwave for two weeks now with the mercury either matching or surpassing 28C for 11 days in a row.
    Should this continue it will smash the August 1997 heatwave record but conditions remain far off the drought of 1976.

    Then, the highest temperature of the year was 35.6C (96.1F) in Southampton on June 28.
    In 2018, the mercury peaked at 33C in Porthmadog in Wales on June 28.
    Temperatures are set to stay high for the next couple of days but will start to come down after that…

    Weather forecaster Emma Salter: ”From Monday or Tuesday the really high temperatures will start to gradually come down, but it will still be in the high 20s so it will be ‘less hot’ rather than cooler…
    Temperatures were so hot in Newbury, Berkshire, yesterday they caused a bin lorry to sink into a hole in the road…

    An average of 239.9 hours of sunshine were recorded last month compared to 205.5 hours in June 1976…
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/weather/984996/uk-heatwave-weather-forecast-1976-heatwave-met-office-how-long-will-it-last

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    • #
      Annie

      1976 was the year my parents came to Cyprus to cool off! There was drought in England and it was actually cooler than usual in Cyprus that summer. They couldn’t get over the fact that my OH could use some water to wash the car and that they needed blankets on the bed up in Troodos! We were five days up there for the only five days of intense summer heat down by the coast that year.

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      PeterS

      If they are to compare heat waves why not also compare cold waves? Recently it was snowing in the South African desert.

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    • #
      Fred Streeter

      An Oz receptionist’s comment on our 1976 drought:
      “Drought? What bloody Drought?”

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    • #

      Not just 1976 and now.

      There was the 1906 heat, the star turn being the 35.6degC recorded in South Yorkshire – at the start of autumn, would you believe. (Though the heatwave of 1868 may have nagged on for longer than any other.)

      There was the Big Sun of 1911.

      There was the 1921 drought, seventeen months in some parts. (Yes, we’re talking England here, not Oz.) Only 1788 seems to have been drier, though 1995-7 was drier for longer, still…no fun.

      There was the major drought plus heat of 1933-4.

      1949 was seriously hot.

      The extreme heat and drought of Spring 1938 was followed by the biggest White Christmas of the century – which proves…well, something.

      After the roasting of 1976, in a triumph for warmie thermometer-watchers, there were v hot years overall for poms in 1990, 1999, 2006, 2011, even hotter than 1949.

      Now this! No wonder the smart set are heading for Mars.

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  • #
    Rob Leviston

    Climate change will boost your testerone! Well, at least I think that is what this researcher is trying to say! ;)
    https://climatechangedispatch.com/study-burning-oil-fuels-white-masculinity/

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    • #
      TdeF

      Climate Change certainly makes me angry.

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      OriginalSteve

      Biggest pile of PC BS ive read for a while.

      Some people just need to get a hobby…..

      Boys will be boys….there is no such thing as petro masculinity, just the reality that blokes like cars…get over it…unless she thinks that by using CAGW it removes cars and thus “problem” masculinity.

      I shake my head…

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  • #
    Peter C

    Did Scott Pruitt resign, or was he fired?

    The is a whole lot of stuff written about ethical scandals, which may or may not be true. I have read that the Donald became angry when Pruitt talked in the Press about Trump firing A G Sessions.
    https://www.vox.com/2018/7/7/17540488/scott-pruitt-resigns-epa-trump-jeff-sessions

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      TdeF

      He spent millions on security, made out to be a scandal by the very people like Maxine Waters who call for the public to confront and assault Trump’s staff and their families. Then the left published his private home address. I think that was the last straw. That is like sending every madman in America after Scott and his family and friends.

      The violence is always on the left of politics. The Nazis were socialists, not conservatives. Socialists do not believe in freedom, any freedom. Hitler copied Stalin’s every move. It is even likely that Hitler would not have come to power without the general fear of Stalin and what he was doing in Poland and the Ukraine in the Holomodor. Amazingly the violent people on the left, the ANTIFA accuse the conservatives of being fascists? That does not even make sense.

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        yarpos

        It is rather mind boggling that the violent, free speech suppressing antifas call other people facists.

        I saw a funny poster the other day. The picture looked like a bunch of people posing after a day at the gun range. Below it was ” American Conservatives – 300 million firearms and 5 billion rounds of ammo. If we were violent, you would know about it!”

        At some stage I fear they are going to attack the wrong person. I guess that why you dont see much antifa action in Texas.

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          OriginalSteve

          Its actually a fair point.

          People bang on about guns, but London has a higher murder rate ( from knives ) than New York does ( mostly via guns ).

          Kind of demolishes the lefty anti-gun hysteria in one go.

          I think the pother point is that the Left think Conservatives are wimps – they aren’t, they are just highly disciplined and exercise restraint. However, eventually the Leftists might go too far and patience will run out.

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  • #
    pat

    watching the rescue from the Thai cave. amazing.

    an interesting piece:

    7 Jul: Xinhua: China Focus: Forty years of change in just one hour
    by Lyu Qiuping, Lyu Mengqi and Liu Yangtao
    A lot has changed in China over the past 40 years of reform and opening-up, not least the working lives of ordinary people…

    In the late 1970s, China started contracting farmland to households. Xie’s family was allocated theirs in 1982. The first machinery did not arrive until 1992, when a tractor replaced the aging oxen for ploughing and transport. Now villagers have machines for sowing, weeding and harvesting. Drones spray their pesticides.
    “Farming methods have completely changed,” Xie said, without much regret in his voice.
    Better farming means more grain. From 1978 to 2017, grain output more than doubled to 618 million tonnes…

    FUELING THE POWERHOUSE
    Higher output is not only seen in agriculture. In Xie’s province, coal production hit 98,000 tonnes per hour in 2017, nine times the amount mined in 1978…
    Today, Zhao operates a coal cutter. The conveyor belt runs twice as fast as that maintained by his father. Annual production of the mine is 12 million tonnes, 40 times the amount during his grandfather’s time…

    GDP skyrocketed to 82.7 trillion yuan (12.5 trillion U.S. dollars) in 2017, well over 200 times more than the pre-opening-up figure. In comparison, U.S. GDP has increased a mere eight-fold over the same period…

    In 2008, China opened its first high-speed railway line, making the 150-km trip between Beijing and Tianjin in half an hour. The length of high-speed railway lines reached 25,000 km in 2017…

    FEEDING THE PEOPLE
    China aims to eradicate the misery of absolute poverty by 2020. Since 2012, some 68 million population have escaped from the poverty trap, which works out at an average of 1,564 people every hour of every day…

    DELIVERING THE GOODS
    Reform and opening up may have taken 40 years to get this far, but with each passing hour the miracle continues.
    http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-07/07/c_137308832.htm

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    TdeF

    The Australian reports Turnbull is being pushed by both sides of politics to open a Royal Commission into electricity prices.

    Wow! I could help.

    Just ask why Hazelwood, the largest and by far the cheapest source of electricity in Victoria was forced to close. Malcolm said it was a private company matter. They paid $2.35Billion for the plant in 1996, spent perhaps $1.5Billion updating it on a 40 year lease and closed it this year while it was running at 96% capacity for the last month.

    Turnbull says it is ‘old’. Old like the Sydney Harbour bridge perhaps? Or the Opera house? Or the 1974 Westgate Bridge with its 40 year design life, expired 4 years ago? Old like a factory? It’s all about maintenance.
    A maintained power plant or factory can last forever.

    No, it is the RET. Everyone is pretending not to know why we suddenly have the most expensive electricity in the world? Repeal the RET and Hazelwood would open immediately and prices would plummet. That is exactly what I said to Tony Abbott on Tuesday. We do not need a Royal Commission into the bleeding obvious.

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      TdeF

      Perhaps Enron should ask for their money back, pro rata on the 20 years remaining. We would in Victoria reasonably owe them $1.17Billion plus half of the upgrade, $2Billion. Cash please.

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        TdeF

        Their contract also called for a clean up of the site, maybe $1.6Bn. So perhaps the government has a secret deal that they can walk away, leaving a mess?

        You cannot trust our govenments. How many secret payments to Enron, Alcoa, Tomago, Port Pirie, Whyalla, compensation everywhere. How much is this insanity costing us.

        I have read $80,000 per person at Alcoa. Consider that you cannot make aluminum with the world’s highest electricity prices. 90% of the cost of aluminium is electricity! So we are paying for an American company to employ people to pretend to make aluminium profitably. How long will this farce continue before Alcoa just closes?

        The Royal Commission, if any, should be into the RET legislation to see if it is even legal under our system as it is not a tax and no government has the right for force any company to make massive secret payments to third parties. For the right to buy electricity from someone else. This is legalized, government enforced and supervised theft. The Sheriff of Nottingham would love it. This is the ancient principle which brought down King John and the reason for Magna Carta. Robbing the poor to make the rich richer.

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    Another Ian

    WOW! Some power ideas for Canberra

    ” “Premier Doug Ford ran and won on a platform labeled For the People: A Plan for Ontario. The platform set out Ford’s energy plan, in its entirety, as follows:

    • Clean up the Hydro Mess and fire the board of Hydro One and its $6-million-dollar CEO.

    • Our first act will be to end the Liberal practice of making millionaires from your hydro bills!

    • Stop sweetheart deals by scrapping the Green Energy Act.

    • Cut hydro rates by 12% for families, farmers, and small businesses by:

    • Returning Hydro One dividend payments to families.

    • Stopping the Liberal practice of burying the price tag for conservation programs in your hydro bills and instead pay for these programs out of general government revenue.

    • Cancel energy contracts that are in the pre-construction phase and re-negotiate other energy contracts.

    • Declare a moratorium on new energy contracts.

    • Eliminate enormous salaries at Ontario Power Generation and Hydro One.”

    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/index.php/2018/07/08/ford-country-2/#comments

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      TdeF

      Very much like the RET. A Green technique. Bury the costs in your normal bill, unannounced. So not a tax, not in the budget, not accountable, not the government and unknown to the retail customers and of course, doubled by the vendor like all other costs. In English traditional law, this is the enrichment of others ordered by a deceitful government, legalized robbery. As said, a common practice of deep state greens who hide these massive costs under normal electricity bills. Australia has the world’s largest Carbon Tax by far. Except in name, itself more deceit.

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    Ian George

    ‘Sydney just had its warmest pair of July days on record.’

    Oh dear, let’s panic.
    Except it’s BS. The two recent days were recorded as 24.8C and 25.3C.

    In 1975, two consecutive days in July were recorded as 25.4C and 24.7C. Do the maths – they average out the same. Totally misleading and incorrect headline.

    http://www.weatherzone.com.au/news/record-july-warmth-in-sydney/528123

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    • #
      PeterS

      If we are experiencing record high temperatures and people are panicking over it I hate to think what it would be like if we were experiencing record lows. Would that be classified as a full blown major ice age? Of course not.

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      • #
        el gordo

        Broken Hill had a couple of anomalously cold days, record breaking stuff, but the ABC morning weather guy said it didn’t mean global warming had come to an end.

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  • #
    PeterS

    Bolt’s message demonstrates how the virtue signallers still can’t get it right over blaming men for everything.
    MEN DON’T DESERVE ALL THIS HATE
    We can rightly blame men, in particular Turnbull and Shorten here, for the greatest scam of all time – CAGW. Yet the virtue signallers forgot to mention that one.

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  • #
    RickWill

    Not sure if this has been shown before – where battery electric excels:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwZbvPY_4aE
    For comparison the fastest ICE:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZlcRezBFXA

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    • #
      yarpos

      As long as the event is short enough they should do well. Street sedan car drag racing is another one EVs do well at (why the Tesla fanboys are so obsessed about 0-60 times). Not so much Lemans or Nurburgring, although a Porsche 919 Hybrid recent set a new lap record at the ring.

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      • #
        Hanrahan

        I think it was Christian Horner at Silverstone last night that Jenson Button asked if that Porsche 919 was faster than an F1 car and he laughed, saying that F1 could still beat it without restrictions.

        The Toyota hybrids did a fantastic job at Le Mons and I still believe hybrids are the future of both motoring and racing. I’m a little surprised that they haven’t made inroads into trucking.

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    pat

    7 Jul: UK Spectator: The dream of driverless cars is dying
    Billions have been invested but autonomous vehicles will not be on a road any time soon
    by Christian Wolmar
    I was worried that going to the autonomous vehicle exhibition in Stuttgart would be tantamount to an atheist walking into St Peter’s while the Pope was conducting a mass. There is something religious about the fervour with which adherents to the driverless credo practise their faith and promise us a new kingdom. Their proselytising has indeed convinced many. Politicians are making outlandish statements, such as Jesse Norman’s two weeks ago, that ‘Our entire use of roads is to be revolutionised by autonomous vehicles’, and pouring large sums — a promised £180 million so far — into bizarre research projects such as the development of strange robot cars slower than a Reliant Robin and allowed only on pavements in Milton Keynes…

    This pursuit of the driverless car dream is therefore not only crowding out better ways of improving transport, but also stymying scientific development. Of the 20 or so exhibitors I spoke to, not a single one believed autonomous cars would be on our roads within a decade. There are a myriad problems, ranging from insurance issues to the limitations of the technology and the resistance of the public to travelling in them. Rather than swallowing the fatuous statements from politicians about how driverless cars are going to change our lives, we need a sober assessment of their potential benefits, if any, and, crucially, of their downsides.
    https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/07/the-dream-of-driverless-cars-is-dying/

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    • #
      TdeF

      The CSIRO could explain what happened to their automatic sheep shearing machine project, which must have lasted half a century.

      I have always felt that major long highway lanes could have an embedded wire. Cars could follow this on a long journey, especially as the cars are often travelling nose to tail anyway. Almost no cost. Cars and trucks. All on auto drive. Get off at any time. Radar nose to tail would ensure safety. You could jump on, lock on or leave at any time. No steering or braking needed. Even and especially long country roads. Probably safer than driving. Guided autopilot if you like.

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    pat

    LNP have a Qld state conference; coal is a topic. theirABC reports, with their only guest – ACT’s Climate Change Minister, Shane Rattenbury! not bothering to listen:

    AUDIO: 7mins23secs: 9 Jul: ABC Breakfast: Nationals push for coal to play a prominent role in NEG
    The push by the Nationals for coal to play a prominent role in the National Energy Guarantee is gathering steam
    Over the weekend, the LNP state conference in Queensland passed a motion calling for a new coal-fired power station to be built in northern Australia.

    It follows an earlier demand by the Nationals for a five-billion-dollar equity fund to support baseload generators as their price for supporting the NEG.
    But any further support for coal could scuttle any deal with the states and territories over the National Energy Guarantee.

    ACT’s Climate Change Minister, Shane Rattenbury joins RN Breakfast.
    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/nationals-push-for-coal-to-play-a-prominent-role-in-neg/9957124

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    pat

    btw despite ABC running this recently:

    Consumers more annoyed with their energy company than their banks and mobile providers
    ABC – 15 Jun 2018

    I cannot find any reporting by them on the following either:

    Barnaby Joyce, Craig Kelly, Michelle Landry in push for power bill answers
    Barnaby Joyce and several Coalition backbenchers are urging Malcolm Turnbull to threaten energy retailers with a royal commission…
    Australian – 7 Jul 2018

    meanwhile, SBS/AAP – like Sky News last night – are busy framing the Royal Commission idea as a Greens/Labor idea, with Adam Bandt getting multiple quotes, even following mention of Barnaby Joyce (but not Kelly & Landry). plus, of course, it’s pro more “renewables” and “gaming” the system only:

    9 Jul: SBS: AAP: Coalition under pressure on energy prices
    The Greens are pushing for an inquiry into energy prices, with support coming from within the coalition partyroom as well as crossbenchers and Labor.
    The Greens will introduce legislation for a commission of inquiry into excessive profiteering by power companies.
    The minor party’s energy spokesman Adam Bandt says re-regulating electricity prices and ***generating more power from renewable energy will tackle skyrocketing power bills.
    “It’s time to get to the bottom of why power prices are going up, which is (because) we’re taking an essential service and treating it like a stock market,” Mr Bandt told Sky News on Monday…

    Coalition MPs including former deputy prime minister Barnaby Joyce have urged Malcolm Turnbull to threaten power companies with a royal commission unless they cut prices.
    “The more that one looks into it … the more you realise the problems go right to the heart of deregulation and privatisation,” Mr Bandt said…

    But crossbench senators Pauline Hanson and Derryn Hinch don’t believe the issue warrants a royal commission…

    Mr Bandt said the Greens would negotiate with Labor and coalition backbenchers to vote for a commission of inquiry in parliament.
    “We’re wanting to see now whether all of these people who are making noises about electricity bills are willing to point the finger at the real culprit, which is the big power companies who have been ***gaming the system,” he said.
    https://www.sbs.com.au/news/coalition-under-pressure-on-energy-prices

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      So Adam Brandt thinks that more expensive electricity will make the stuff cheaper. He must be the Green Party member.

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    • #
      RickWill

      It still amazes me that politicians wonder why electric power prices are increasing. They simply have no ability to connect the dots. And maybe they only get insight into power generation looking at the reneweconomy blog.

      There are five significant sources of electric power generation in Australia – coal, gas, hydro, wind and solar. There is virtually no competition on the generation side because wind and solar have guaranteed market access for whatever they produce, within stability constraints, whenever they produce. Everything produced from wind and solar enjoys a handsome subsidy. The coal generation has increasing pricing power because there is not a lot of excess coal capacity now when there is no wind at night so coal competes with gas on pricing at those times and that ensures coal has a good margin at those times. Gas has its niche in the fast response needed for increasing penetration of wind and solar so makes the most out of weather fronts and other changeable weather conditions. Hydro is in the box seat when demand is high or there are generator failures and can charge the cap if they choose at those times; only need that situation a few times a year and they make windfall profits.

      All this ambient generating capacity has been built and there has been minimal reduction in fossil fuel capacity – just enough to ensure coal has sufficient market power to allow gas to set the price whenever the wind and solar are not doing much. All the generators need to cover costs and each has enough market power to ensure that happens.

      Then there are the increased costs of connecting, managing and metering all the new diverse generation sources. There has also been a need to replace aged distribution infrastructure; upgrade to Smartmeters for different billing options; fireproof some power lines etc.

      The NEG will place higher risk on the retailers and make their world more complex so they will be looking to price that risk and how they limit exposure. That will add further cost increases.

      Piles of money have been spent on ambient generation over the last decade; all with a guaranteed return. For all that expenditure, there has a been a slight reduction in coal burnt but increased reliance on expensive, fast response gas generation. All the costs are recoverable over time from consumers. Of the order of $40bn has been spent in the last decade on ambient energy generation while increasing the cost of fossil fuel generation. Huge cost for negative benefit and consumers get the tab. No one who understands value would encourage all that expenditure without knowing the likely return.

      The answer to this single question might provide the required insight. How much dispatchable generating capacity does each kW of wind and solar power replace? Anyone who knows the correct answer knows why power prices have gone up. Is it 20W, 200W, 300W or 500W?

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    pat

    behind paywall:

    6 Jul: UK Times: Emily Gosden: Energy bills ‘likely to rise after Brexit’, says Energy UK
    Household energy bills are likely to rise as a result of uncertainty over whether Britain will remain in Europe’s carbon trading scheme after Brexit, the industry body has claimed.
    Clarity over policies affecting the energy industry once Britain leaves the EU is “desperately” needed and opacity is affecting the sector, Lawrence Slade, chief executive of Energy UK, said.
    “Risk has a price . . . this situation is likely to create cost pressure that will feed through to customer bills,” he said.
    Energy UK represents more than 100 British energy companies, ranging from household supply firms to power plant owners, accounting for more than 90 per cent of the industry. Mr Slade’s warning, in a blog yesterday, is the latest call from big business for clarity on Brexit…
    Claire Perry, the energy minister, has said that although Britain will leave the EU in March next year, it will remain in the ETS until the end of 2020, when the current trading phase ends…

    6 Jul: UtilityWeek: Brexit uncertainty has ‘direct impact’ on energy companies
    The uncertainty surrounding Brexit is already having an impact on energy suppliers, nine months ahead of the UK’s planned departure date from the European Union, Lawrence Slade has warned.
    Energy UK’s chief executive made the warning in a blog post yesterday (5 July) ahead of the cabinet being locked down today at the prime minister’s country retreat at Chequers to hammer out the government’s Brexit strategy.
    Slade writes that last week’s June EU council meeting failed to provide the industry with the clarity it “desperately” needs on the sector’s future policy and regulatory framework…

    Uncertainty around whether the UK will remain in the European Emission Trading System (EU ETS) is “already having a direct impact on the day-to-day business of energy companies,” he said.
    “It is “extremely difficult” to price any thermal generation, resulting in “deep uncertainty” across the market, because companies do not know the carbon pricing mechanism that the UK will be in…
    The ETS secure and promote obligation, which applies to larger emitters, will be extended to the winter period 2020/21 from 1 October.
    The burden of the likely alternative to the ETS, a carbon tax, would fall on energy suppliers, pushing consumer prices up and making carbon reduction “less efficient and cost-effective”

    Slade also calls for the UK to “certainly not” disregard the emerging targets in areas, such as the ***renewable generation, outlined in the EU’s emerging “clean energy for all’ package…
    https://utilityweek.co.uk/brexit-uncertainty-direct-impact-energy-companies/

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      Graeme No.3

      Dear little Emily (a reference to her IQ not her stature) can’t believe that cheap electricity isn’t possible without subsidies for the most expensive. And I can be sure she doesn’t know who pays for those subsidies.

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    Hanrahan

    According to the New York Post Hillary is planning to run again in 2020. Who’d a thunk it!

    Is Hillary Clinton secretly planning to run in 2020?
    By Michael Goodwin
    The messages convey a sense of urgency, and are coming with increasing frequency. They are short, focused reactions to the latest “outrage” committed by President Trump.

    Some end by asking for money, some urge participation in protests. All read as if they are sent from the official headquarters of the resistance.

    Hillary Clinton is up to something.
    More @
    https://nypost.com/2018/07/07/is-hillary-clinton-secretly-planning-to-run-in-2020/

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    pat

    behind paywall:

    8 Jul: UK Times: Death of the power dinosaurs
    A decade ago the big six energy giants enjoyed 98% market share. Now their very existence is in doubt, reports John Collingridge
    Neil Woodford is one for bold bets. Three years ago, the powerful fund manager made one that ought to have made a whole sector sit up and take notice. Over the space of a few months in 2015, Woodford — one of the City’s most prominent income investors — ditched his stakes in Centrica and SSE. Britain’s two biggest power companies were doomed to stagnant growth and would struggle to deliver decent returns, wrote one of Woodford’s assistants.

    That decision has proved prescient. Utilities, traditionally among the strongest beasts in the corporate world, are under attack from all angles as governments threaten price caps, new rivals undercut their prices, carbon taxes squeeze margins and renewable power technologies ***plunge in price.

    Now the very existence of the big power companies is in doubt as they struggle to keep pace with rapid changes in consumer behaviour. Faced with the firepower of deep-pocketed tech giants, they could soon be extinct. That collapse has been mirrored globally, with companies from Germany’s RWE to France’s Engie tumbling heavily. This is a dangerous position. Utilities were privatised with the aim of attracting billions in long-term private cash to invest in coal, gas and nuclear power stations that had been starved of finance during state ownership. Chief executives simply had to erect the chimneys, switch on the turbines and watch investors’ cash multiply…

    Electric cars will require a huge increase in power generation. Yet while minsters plan to invest in another huge nuclear plant, built by Japan’s Hitachi on Anglesey in north Wales, it is unclear whether they will commit to a string of new nuclear plants. Some experts reckon nuclear will end up supplying a thin but reliable slice of Britain’s power needs, helping provide stability. Meanwhile, distributed power generated from a multitude of small sources is likely to supply an ever-growing proportion of Britain’s power needs. Car giants from Nissan to Honda are working on trials to turn their electric vehicles into miniature power stations. This vehicle-to-grid model captures electricity from solar panels and wind turbines in the cars’ batteries, then pumps it into the grid when demand surges or the car is parked overnight…
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/business/death-of-the-power-dinosaurs-jvzb5vfml

    same writer – some excerpts found elsewhere online – behind paywall:

    China’s CGN eyes stake in UK nuclear stations
    By John Collingridge, UK Times – a day ago
    The Chinese government is in early-stage talks to buy a big minority stake in Britain’s fleet of nuclear power stations, The Sunday Times can reveal. China General Nuclear (CGN), the country’s state-run nuclear giant, is understood to have made an approach about acquiring a share of up to 49% in the eight power stations, which generate a fifth of the nation’s electricity. The stake, worth up to £4bn, is being sold by Centrica, the parent company of British Gas, and the French giant EDF.

    more to come.

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      pat

      re the UK Times story:

      9 Jul: Guardian: Zoe Wood: China looking to buy stake in UK nuclear plants, say reports
      Chinese state-run firm eyeing up multibillion-pound deal for majority share in eight sites
      The talks will reignite debate about China’s involvement in the UK nuclear power industry. Two years ago, the government paused approval for the £18bn Hinkley Point C project because of security concerns over China’s stake.
      China General Nuclear Power Group (CGN), a state-run corporation, is said to be interested in buying a major stake in eight power stations, including Sizewell in Suffolk and Dungeness in Kent…

      The sale could attract interest from pension and insurance funds, but analysts say the pool of bidders is small because the reactors have a limited shelf live (life?)…

      Paul Dorfman, a senior researcher at University College London’s Energy Institute, said Britain was an outlier in its openness to Chinese investment.
      “It’s entirely credible [that China would be allowed to buy the stake] in the context of what the British government is doing,” he said. “There is no other OECD country that would allow China to own any of its critical infrastructure, let alone its nuclear infrastructure.”…

      The eight nuclear power stations, which used to be grouped under British Energy, generate 8.9 gigawatts of electricity and supply about 20% of Britain’s electricity needs. They were bought by EDF for £12.5bn in 2008. The following year, Centrica took a 20% stake, which it values at £1.7bn…READ ALL
      https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jul/08/china-interested-majority-stake-uk-nuclear-power-stations-reports

      read all:

      2 Jul: SouthChinaMorningPost: Eric Ng: China’s largest nuclear power developer eyes wind and gas projects in addition to maiden venture in UK
      CGN has stakes in UK’s Hinkley Point C, Sizewell C and Bradwell B nuclear plant projects
      China General Nuclear Power Group (CGN), a key implementer of Beijing’s Belt and Road Initiative, is seeking non-nuclear, clean energy project opportunities in Britain, even as it works to keep its maiden nuclear project in the country on time and within budget while pushing ahead with preparatory work on two others, according to the chief executive of its UK unit…

      According to a forecast by the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, the UK’s nuclear power output will almost double by 2035 from last year, and that of renewable power by about two-thirds. No power will be produced from coal by 2026, while that produced from natural gas will fall by two-thirds…
      This will create an additional need for 16 gigawatts of nuclear capacity and 50GW of renewable energy capacity…

      But the variability of renewable energy and the high cost of power storage systems mean nuclear energy, which is clean and steady in output, still has a role to play, Humphrey Hudson, EDF’s nuclear development managing director, told an industry conference in London last month.

      The key to bringing down high costs is to make exact copies of more reactors once the first one is brought online successfully, he said, adding the EPR plant in Sizewell was expected to cost 20 per cent less than that in Hinkley Point…
      https://www.scmp.com/business/article/2153301/chinas-largest-nuclear-power-developer-eyes-wind-and-gas-projects-addition

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        pat

        two pieces which, ultimately, are pro-”renewables”:

        5 Jul: The Diplomat: Why the Civil Nuclear Trap Is Part and Parcel of the Belt and Road Strategy
        Civil nuclear energy presents grave pitfalls in terms of cost, innovation and security that BRI countries cannot and should not afford.
        By Sam Reynolds
        (Sam Reynolds is pursuing his master’s degree in international relations from the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies. His primary areas of interest include the geopolitics of climate change, migration, and science diplomacy. He is currently an intern in the Asia-Pacific program of the EastWest Institute)
        Since President Xi Jinping announced China’s Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) in 2013, there has been no shortage of speculation on the motivations behind it. While Beijing has extolled the $1 trillion initiative’s benefits — including trade creation, economic development, and renewable energy — it has also repeatedly tried to soft-pedal the BRI’s military strategic implications.

        Nuclear power plant (NPP) projects, for example, are not listed on several Chinese government BRI websites. Yet, over the next decade China plans to build 30 reactors in BRI countries, many of which are either not party to global nuclear nonproliferation regimes or lack the regulatory basis for controlling nuclear fuel uses. These projects are certainly part of China’s grander energy strategy and paint a clearer, drearier picture of how the initiative might unravel…
        https://thediplomat.com/2018/07/why-the-civil-nuclear-trap-is-part-and-parcel-of-the-belt-and-road-strategy/

        4 Jul: Physics World: Dave Elliott: Renewables – limited or big and fast?
        (Dave Elliott is emeritus professor of technology policy at the Open University, UK, and writes a regular column for Physics World on sustainable energy technologies…Dave is a physicist by training and worked for the UK Atomic Energy Authority before turning his attention to renewable energy)
        In a paper published in the journal Joule (LINK), researchers at Imperial College London (ICL) claim that studies that predict whole systems can run on near-100% renewable power by 2050 may be flawed as they do not sufficiently account for the reliability of the supply…
        The ICL researchers found that the lack of firm and dispatchable “backup” energy systems, such as nuclear or power plants equipped with carbon capture systems (CCS), means the power supply would fail often enough that the system would be deemed inoperable. They found that even if they added a small amount of backup nuclear and biomass energy, creating a 77% WWS capacity system, around 9% of the annual UK demand could remain unmet, leading to considerable power outages and economic damage.

        Lead author Clara Heuberger, a PhD student from the Centre for Environmental Policy at Imperial, said: “Mathematical models that neglect operability issues can mislead decision makers and the public, potentially delaying the actual transition to a low carbon economy. Research that proposes ‘optimal’ pathways for renewables must be upfront about their limitations if policymakers are to make truly informed decisions.”…
        https://physicsworld.com/a/renewables-limited-or-big-and-fast/

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  • #
    Robber

    Why would people want a Royal Commission into energy prices? The ACCC has just spent the last 15 months inquiring into electricity prices, receiving many public submissions, and was due to issue their final report to the Treasurer on June 30. Surely we read their findings first, before wasting more public monies and another 12 months on another study.
    I can save them all that effort. Here’s a quick summmary of what’s wrong with the electricity market:
    1. Doubling of generation prices due closures, higher gas prices, and subsidies for intermittent wind/solar that reduce utilisation of standby generators.
    2. Network monopolies that get a guaranteed return on investment, and have been investing to cope with an increasingly variable network due distributed wind/solar generators.
    3. High retail margins that encouraged 20 retailers to enter the market and offer ridiculous discounts of 30-45%.
    Recommendations:
    – Stop government interventions like the RET and NEG
    – Stop feed in tariffs
    – Simplify retail pricing

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    • #
      PeterS

      The most likley reason for those calling for a Royal Commission is because they truly believe high power prices is the result of coal and they want to prove it. They probably believe they can given the leftists are experts at twisting the facts.

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      • #
        el gordo

        Actually it was Barnaby Joyce calling for a Royal Commission, but the National Party leader said its only speculation.

        It depends on the terms of reference, if its broad then we can prove CO2 doesn’t cause global warming so we may as well build Hele.

        Also there has been no due diligence on Snowy Hydro, another white elephant.

        The people will be shocked, just like the Banking Royal Commission, but of course its much bigger than that. Whose idea was it to build the desalination plants?

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    • #
      PeterS

      Oh BTW:
      – Stop government interventions like the RET and NEG – YES
      – Stop feed in tariffs – YES
      – Simplify retail pricing -YES
      Also:
      Introduce incentives for new coal fired power generation, such as no tax for 5 years. That alone would be a huge economic plus. We need to bring down power prices by at least half if this nation is to avoid bleeding to death.

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  • #
    Hanrahan

    Has SA’s HV link broken again? And the wind has dropped.

    The rest of the eastern grid has cheap wholesale prices while SA’s price is $8,823.81/MWh and rising fast.

    10

    • #
      Hanrahan

      What does this mean?

      Market Notice 63423
      AEMO ELECTRICITY MARKET NOTICE

      Issued by Australian Energy Market Operator Ltd at 1105 hrs on 9 July 2018

      ACTUAL NEGATIVE SETTLEMENT RESIDUES – SA to VIC – 9 July 2018.

      Electricity Market outcomes have resulted in the accumulation of negative settlement residues that have exceeded the allowable negative residue threshold for the SA to VIC directional interconnector.

      The negative residue constraint set NRM_SA1_VIC1 commenced operating from 1105 hrs on 9 July 2018.

      This constraint set contains an equation with the following interconnectors on the LHS:
      V-S-MNSP1
      V-SA

      The RHS of the constraint equation may be adjusted to manage residues.

      This is an AEMO autogenerated Market Notice.

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    • #
      Robber

      The Tailem Bend – South East 275kV No 2 line and Tailem Bend 275kV West Bus in South Australia (SA) region are planned to be out of service from 0830 hrs on 06/08/2018 to 1730 hrs on 12/08/2018.
      During this outage, SA will remain connected to the rest of the NEM via the Tailem Bend – South East 275kV No 1 line and the 132kV network.
      A credible contingency event on the Tailem Bend – South East 275kV No 1 line or Tailem Bend – Tunkillo 275 kV line during this planned outage will sever the 275kV connections between the NEM and SA. If SA remains connected to the NEM via the 132kV network, this will pose a system security issue.

      With virtually no wind in SA after a strong week, it certainly seems that imports to SA are well below the normal 500 MW max flow.

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      • #
        Hanrahan

        In the last four hours the SA dispatch price has dropped to -$1,000 eight times and risen +>$10,000 nine times.

        How can anyone justify this as a sustainable model?

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  • #
    OriginalSteve

    Had a curious experience with someone who was right into recycling – they were recycling coffee pods and making a bit of deal about it. I came up with a way to recycle not just the pods, but also use the old coffee grounds as a viable fuel.

    The weird thing was that it appeared that the recycling promoter was kind of miffed I’d actually come up with a workable solution. It occurs to me that the bulk of the green power push comes from expounding great problems, but not wanting it actually solved, presumably as it means they lose their time in the spotlight?

    Odd….

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  • #
    Hanrahan

    Laughing my t!ts off. Two labor rats, Latham and Richardson going at it hammer and tongs. Richardson carrying on as if he has always been at one with labor, Latham as if he never was. Worth my subscription to Sky. :)

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  • #
    Hanrahan

    Is anyone else reminded of Apollo13 and Beaconsfield? I have been reluctant to make a comparison but with eight boys safe in Thailand I now dare to hope.

    Their coach was a Buddhist monk. Possibly the best mentor in such trying conditions.

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    • #
    • #
      Hanrahan

      Twitter reports say that the last of the trapped boys and coach are out of the cave.

      As I said above this is like Apollo 13. I’m thinking of the saying “What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger”. It’s cr@p of course but I think it may be true with most of these boys. The diver who died will be a national hero and deservedly so.

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      • #
        Chad

        Good news that they are all safe again.
        But has anyone wondered how such a group of young inexperienced kids managed to get so far ..several kms,..into a very difficult and technical cave system wothout any equipment or guides.
        …..I assume they had a flashlight or two ?
        Just seems a little odd that they were so far into that tricky cave system.?

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        • #

          they weren’t that technical and they had lights. Then they had to keep going.

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          • #
            Chad

            You mean when the water started rising, they kept moving in front of it ?
            I guess these people have a lower sense of risk that most..certainly me !
            I have been in a few caves , and even some of the “tourist” sections have caused me to rethink my sense of adventure ! Simple things like a twisted ankle or a dislocated arm, would become a major rescue situation in limited acess spaces..with the added risk to others attempting to help you.
            The boys coach is being hailed as a hero now, but he needs to ask himself a few serious questions as to how they got into that situation.

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            • #

              yes… the coach might well need to shoulder some responsibility for getting them in the situation. I’m sure the full story will be revealed in time and I suspect that it likely that the coach’s role was critical in their survival once they were in that situation. That’s where the “heroism” will be judged.

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  • #
    Chad

    I noticed South Australia really gave their Diesel Generators a big workout yesterday ..Monday.
    No wind , and no imported power for some reason, so the gas plants were maxed out and the diesels working much more tha i have ever seen before from 9am to 3pm .
    Looks like Vic had some sort of supply restriction ??

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    • #
      Robber

      Chad, what’s your source? I can’t see any use of SATGS1 or SATGN1 on Anero.id. It does show up to 240 MW of diesel generators used on Monday, and 80 MW yesterday from Angaston, Lonsdale, Pt Lincoln, and Pt Stanvac diesel generators. AEMO had reported that over half of the Vic interconnectors were down for maintenance over the last few days.
      The return to service of the Tungkillo – Tailem Bend 275kV line in South Australia (SA) region previously planned for 1730 hrs 10/07/2018 has been extended to 1100 hrs 11/07/2018.
      During this outage, SA will remain connected to the rest of the NEM via the Tailem Bend – Cherry Garden 275kV line and the 132kV network.
      A credible contingency event on the Tailem Bend – Cherry Garden 275 kV line during this planned outage will sever the 275kV connections between the NEM and SA. If SA remains connected to the NEM via the 132kV network, this will pose a system security issue.
      If the above credible contingency occurs, 35 MW of raise and lower regulation FCAS will be sourced from within SA.

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    Chad

    Robber..
    …only the NEMlog site..for monday.
    http://nemlog.com.au/gen/region/#SA1
    I didnt look to see which Dielels they were using,..just that i have never seen so much used for such a long period…(they actually ran for 12 hiurs,..from 9 am to 9 pm.

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