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Here’s why there is no safe “middle ground” pandering to climate Yeti’s

Australians aren’t buying Turnbulls fence-sitting do-everything (do nothing) energy plan

There is a lesson for politicians all over the world.

Labor, Liberal, what;s the difference?

Labor, Liberal, what’s the difference?

In Australia the Labor party is 100% Gung Ho about controlling the global weather with our power supply. Despite that Dead-Weight handicap, slightly more Australians think that the Labor party will be better at managing electricity prices than the Liberal government*.

A Newspoll conducted for The Australian revealed that only 37 per cent believed the Coalition and Mr Turnbull would be better at maintaining energy supply and keeping power prices lower, compared with 39 per cent who backed Labor to deliver the ­reform. Almost a quarter of voters were undecided.

…the voters who wanted to Axe The Tax are still out there, and their electricity bills are even higher.

It’s not as insanely crazy as it sounds. By trying to half-way appease both sides both sides of politics Turnbull pleases no one. He’s crushed the issue as a vote winner for conservatives, which is not all that surprising since he’s not all that conservative. His gut instincts are screwed.

Labor are offering themselves as chief-witchdoctors. This is a gold plated gift to conservatives. But the government is saying that they will be witchdoctors too, just the slow-doctor kind. Thus they are completely knobbled as Witchdoctor-Exorcists. They can’t mock the feathers and masks because they wear them themselves. Conservative pollies could have a field day with the narcissistic delusion of using windmills to hold back the tide, instead they are reduced to saying “Trust Us” — electricity has gotten obscenely expensive on our watch, but it will be worse if you put Labor in charge.

The findings come despite modelling showing that the ­opposition’s renewable energy and climate change target policies would add up to $300 a year to annual power bills.

Fighting with imaginary numbers.

Instead of “neutralizing” the climate issue, Turnbull gave the issue to the Labor Party

Tony Abbott won a ninety seat landslide on the Blood Oath to Axe the Tax. Compare that to the King of the Hollow Men, Turnbull, who offered a Labor Lite version to Australia and won by almost nothing. He used stealth and deception to sneak in an Emissions Trading Scheme, hiding it because he knew Australians would not want it, and now he wants to sell us, of all things, a National Energy Guarantee, as if we should believe him?

No wonder voters are confused

The Labor plan is worse than the Liberal plan  — but the Liberals can’t explain why. They can hardly say that renewables are shockingly expensive, and disruptive and “we’ll install less of these horrible things than Labor will”.

What can they say? — That Labor’s plan to change the planetary climate is burko, but we have one too. Vote for me and go slow-burko!

Standing in no mans land on the climate is not “compromise” or “statesmanship”. It’s not a negotiated middle position. It’s just cowardly nothingness. Either man-made emissions matter or they don’t. If they do matter, do something, go nuclear. If they don’t matter, laugh and axe the tax, and then count up all the seats you are about to win… the voters who wanted to Axe The Tax are still out there, and their electricity bills are even higher.

If Australians are confused in that poll about why electricity is expensive the Liberals have themselves to blame.

 

From the frying-pan into the fire,
As with Labor the prices go higher,
Due to climate witchcraft,
But with Liberals as daft,
It makes their kilowatt cost nigh as dire.

–Ruairi

*For foreign readers Liberals in Australia means conservative liberal, not leftie “liberal”. In theory anyway.

*Image Two Lassa Witch Doctors This media comes from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention‘s Public Health Image Library(PHIL), with identification number #1322

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Rating: 9.8/10 (84 votes cast)
Here's why there is no safe "middle ground" pandering to climate Yeti's, 9.8 out of 10 based on 84 ratings

168 comments to Here’s why there is no safe “middle ground” pandering to climate Yeti’s

  • #
    Leonard Lane

    It is hard to understand why the centrist party (Liberals) has to copy the leftist party(Labor) in this climate nonsense. Is there any way for a truly conservative party to develop in Australia?

    231

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Not while people still listen to the MSM outlets, sometimes I work in Melbourne and listening to the repeated left wing dogma they espouse as gospel is jaw dropping, it was always about creating a climate of fear not stability.

      322

      • #
        Ian Hilliar

        Shame the leftie press corps is illiterate, and never read Michael Crichton’s “Climate of fear”…

        90

    • #
      Geoff

      Both sides think they can buy votes with climate change. Polls created by the media constantly buzz pollies ears, creating a belief in climate magic. Meanwhile the public remain disillusioned with politics, the main stream media and universities as our power bills keep rising faster than inflation.

      Like All BIG government promoted problems, there is zero incentive to fix, finalize, end or turn off the magic pudding’s lifeblood, diversion of taxes to well marketed, worthless causes.

      Government avoids the nasty supposition that it is far cheaper to pay government workers to stare out of a window than EVER allow them to do ANYTHING. By all means “employ” them. Beyond that give them no budget to do something. It’s too dangerous to our economy. Politicians may be delusional, well meaning capitalists but Government is BIG socialism direct from Karl Marx. In their world they run at a profit but in reality have no income or even a reason for being.

      221

      • #
        robert rosicka

        Spot on Geoff both majors are trying to out green the greens which is a contest neither will win and the people of Australia lose unless they wake up to what’s going on .

        182

    • #
      PeterS

      Well if anyone truly wants a conservative party to be developed here on Australia then vote for ACP at every election from now on. It’s very simple. Voters have the power to do this. It just needs enough of them to wake up. So the real question is how do we wake up Australia to the fact there is already a conservative party under development but hasn’t reached the maturity and size of the majors who have much more funding, staff and other resources to keep pushing their common agenda to sacrifice Australia for climate change?

      171

      • #
        el gordo

        Voting ACP would be a wasted vote.

        VOTE INFORMAL

        214

        • #
          PeterS

          Then nothing will change. Enjoy the crash and burn.

          81

          • #
            el gordo

            Its a dead rubber unless the Coalition ginger group topples Talcum from his lofty pedestal.

            I want Cory to come out and say carbon dioxide doesn’t cause global warming, the science is almost settled. But I think he lacks the intellectual wit to grasp the moment.

            122

        • #
          Rob Leviston

          Voting informal is a wasted vote!

          71

          • #
            el gordo

            That is true, but with nobody to vote for I reserve the right.

            12

            • #
              truth

              I agree el gordo.

              I think energy is THE vital issue on which EVERYthing else depends-nothing happens without it-zero.

              So …although I NEVER vote Labor…EVER…in THIS election I would if Labor had a rational energy policy that put Australia’s economic and physical security FIRST….but of course they don’t.

              For the first time in my life I can’t vote Liberal because I believe Turnbull’s energy policy is a recipe for the wanton destruction of Australia as a modern 1st world industrialized country…and that it would destroy Australia’s security in every possible way….military…border…internal…employment.

              It would decimate our export income and consequently starve all those great institutions we depend on in the way of safety nets…Medicare…PBS….NDIS…pensions..welfare…hospitals… etc.

              So I won’t vote AT ALL and I hope others who feel the same DO the same…en masse.

              It will put Labor into power, but at least …I hope…it would see the end of Malcolm Turnbull and the chance to reinstate Tony Abbott who has been right on almost EVERY ISSUE…the WORLD’s most prescient and rational leader…not just Australia’s.

              When Americans and British politicians and people talk about solutions to the madness of open borders and killing off baseload energy to substitute it with weather dependent wind…solar…pumped hydro…batteries…all weather dependent once there’s a high penetration of RE…when they talk about the solutions, it’s Tony Abbott’s policies they’re talking about—the voice of reason and courage.

              So I believe the only thing to be done for Australia is to right the terrible wrong of 2015…reinstate the real leader…Tony Abbott… the fruits of whose policies are the only reason the economy’s in decent shape at all right now…he and a handful of his parliamentary supporters being the only ones whose thinking on energy policy puts Australia’s interests first instead of those of European UN Socialists who see this hoax as an opportunity for wealth redistribution [admitted by them] and don’t give a damn if Australia goes belly-up.

              00

          • #
            sophocles

            If it’s done by enough voters, it’s a very strong comment in its own right.

            12

            • #
              el gordo

              Scribes would trawl over the entrails and wonder if democracy has passed its used by date. A social revolt of this nature is not part of our culture, so its unlikely to happen.

              10

              • #
                truth

                el gordo…

                Change of government by COUP wasn’t part of our culture either….until Gillard and Turnbull.

                EVERYTHING changed on that day in 2015.

                A voters’ strike may not happen but there’s every reason it SHOULD happen—especially by former Liberal voters.

                There IS no choice so the election wouldn’t be a democratic one anyway IMO.

                We’d have to choose between a full-on LW leader of a LW party in Labor on the one hand…and on the other …a party led by a GreenLaborLEFT mole squatting in the LNP government he stole by COUP from a duly-elected highly-successful PM…a LW mole who’s doing the LW policy of the LNP’s political opponents…the policy that LNP voters expressly voted against….we’re not so supine and grovelling as to roll with that are we?

                At least Shorten is likely to stick to the LW policies his LW supporters will vote for.

                Turnbull shows abject contempt for democracy…on steroids…and it would be a horrible travesty to endorse that IMO.

                If the scribes could be BOTHERED trawling over the entrails after realizing a voters’ strike had occurred [and it's debatable whether they WOULD BOTHER considering the bias towards the left ...especially the Turnbull Left...of almost all journalists]…there just MIGHT be a chance that the enormity and destruction of the Long March of the Left through the Institutions and its annihilation of democracy would be recognized and mitigated.

                Anyway…there’s no way on earth that I’ll vote AT ALL if the Libs are led by Turnbull or any of his plotters.

                00

          • #
            Hanrahan

            Scrawling “A pox on both your houses” will be noticed more than any formal vote.

            Party scrutineers scratch over all informal votes to see if they cam claim one for their team thus both parties will read your wee rebellious comment.

            00

      • #
        Robdel

        They wont wake up until the electricity is gone. Until then sit it out.

        112

    • #
      Ian

      “*For foreign readers Liberals in Australia means conservative liberal, not leftie “liberal”. In theory anyway.’

      This used to be a site run by a scientist and providing comment on science but it is now a political site for Conservatives hankering after the 1950s by pandering to their leader the disgraceful Tony Abbott, the MP who said no sniping no undermining and then did both. Turnbull is ten times the man Abbott will ever be. There’s lots more I’d like to say but as it is science based it probably is now out of place at this site..I am really sad to see the destruction of a good science based site by far right politicking

      03

      • #

        Who’s far right? I just come here to kick the tripes out of Green Blob and confess my love of the luscious Permian black coal of our magnificent eastern coal basins. (I try not to mention that raw Tertiary muck they burn further south, but at least it does a rough job, of sorts.)

        Coal is chocolate sunshine. You might say I’m a serious chocolate sunshine-based commenter who’s hankering for the 2020s without feeble, diffuse, intermittent, money-gobbling, diesel-slurping, unrenewable renewables. We can’t just sell South Australia to the Californians so we take a stand.

        Abbott’s a bit of a doofus, but he had me at “coal”. (Pity about permanent war and endless debt, but you get that no matter who you vote for.)

        30

  • #
    NoFixedAddress

    Good to see you front up Jo as in nice to see that you were invited.

    I think that there are many folk that are appreciative of your work.

    Kind regards.

    183

  • #
    Yonniestone

    The two choices reminds me of the old cannibal joke except now death by “Mal Mal” is slower and more painful.

    162

  • #
    NoFixedAddress

    We are no longer Australia but are UNaustralia.

    Sad.

    212

    • #
      robert rosicka

      Australiastan it is because two southern states are fighting for the rights to Dumbfukistan !

      132

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        The quicksand is the UN treaties – a lot of our laws are built around UN treaties, which has the effect of sneakily making the Hague the highest court in the land by default.

        Again, just like the green nonsense, none of this could happen unless pollies buy into the whole mess.

        Which makes them…um..whats the word?

        60

    • #
      Kinky Keith

      That surely makes us AUSTRALIUNS.

      To avoid being governed by grabbers, make sure you vote to exclude the three major UN parties.

      Vote Libs Labs and Gruns last in the Lower house and for anybody else but them in the Upper house.

      UNVOTE them and give us FREEDUM.

      Start the campaign now and print leaflets to hand out :

      UNVOTE AUSTRALIA.

      Elect New blood.

      KK

      32

  • #
    Ruairi

    From the frying-pan into the fire,
    As with Labor the prices go higher,
    Due to climate witchcraft,
    But with Liberals as daft,
    It makes their kilowatt cost nigh as dire.

    320

  • #

    Some people say the way to cook a frog is to chuck it into water at full boil. This splashy and alarming process is called “Labor”.

    The other way is to lower the frog alive into tepid water and increase the heat gradually. This is the “Liberal” process and seems to be more thrifty and humane, though there are doubts about this.

    The Liberal process is best performed by an internationally approved and Australia-neutral appointee (you can elect one from time to time, if you must), with a solid culinary background in either Deutsche Bank or Goldman-Sachs (choice again!).

    The Labor process, best performed by someone with a solid future in very big corporations (or these days foundations, to reduce liability, answerability and tax), involves bigger batches and requires much ruthlessness and muscle. A variation is the Dastyari Manoeuvre, where the whole kitchen just disappears to China along one belt, one road.

    So, frogs, how are we feeling?

    303

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      I think the rot really accelerated under Howard …. he brought in the ultimate aim of Socialism – gun control….

      While were on the undermining of society by the Socialist seagulls, heres a reminder of the aims ( more of less ) of Communism – see how many you can spot completed in our country….

      https://www.theblaze.com/video/45-communist-goals-for-america

      Congressional Record–Appendix, pp. A34-A35

      January 10, 1963

      Current Communist Goals

      EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FLORIDA

      IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

      Thursday, January 10, 1963

      Mr. HERLONG. Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Patricia Nordman of De Land, Fla., is an ardent and articulate opponent of communism, and until recently published the De Land Courier, which she dedicated to the purpose of alerting the public to the dangers of communism in America.

      At Mrs. Nordman’s request, I include in the RECORD, under unanimous consent, the following “Current Communist Goals,” which she identifies as an excerpt from “The Naked Communist,” by Cleon Skousen:

      [From “The Naked Communist,” by Cleon Skousen]

      CURRENT COMMUNIST GOALS

      1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

      2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

      3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

      4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

      5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

      6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

      7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

      8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev’s promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

      9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

      10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

      11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

      12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

      13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

      14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

      15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

      16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

      17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers’ associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

      18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

      19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

      20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.

      21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

      22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to “eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms.”

      23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. “Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art.”

      24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them “censorship” and a violation of free speech and free press.

      25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

      26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as “normal, natural, healthy.”

      27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with “social” religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a “religious crutch.”

      28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of “separation of church and state.”

      29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

      30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the “common man.”

      31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the “big picture.” Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

      32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture–education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

      33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

      34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

      35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

      36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

      37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

      38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

      39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

      40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

      41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

      42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use [“]united force[“] to solve economic, political or social problems.

      43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

      44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

      45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

      10

  • #
    Mark M

    There is absolutely zero evidence that any form of renewable energy, on any scale, can prevent any change in climate, or weather event.

    614

    • #
      Robber

      And there is zero evidence that any intermittent “renewables” are lower cost then coal/gas. Go figure.

      413

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        I think about christmas …society effectively invents a mythological fat bloke in a red suit to sacrifice a huge amount of money to each year….its dumb on dumb, but it happens year after year….

        Now ask if a society can spend big money on renewables….

        31

    • #
      PeterS

      And there zero evidence that Australians are aware there is a real alternative party that has all the right policies to put a stop to all this renewables nonsense.

      91

      • #
        el gordo

        Cory needs to become a charismatic leader like Donald, so that the MSM take notice. The ACP is a splinter group and not all that newsworthy.

        73

        • #

          The ABC will never cover ACP – ACP need to outflank the media via facebook/twitter/emails etc. Feet on the ground. Doorknocking.

          At the moment I suspect a lot of Australians don’t even realize how powerful it is to use preferential voting and put independents and minor parties first.

          252

          • #
            • #
              Ian Hilliar

              No , we would all like the ABC to STOP its advocacy, starting with climate advocacy

              161

            • #
              Sceptical Sam

              Start advocacy. Oh, you leaf with one Stomata.

              The Collingwood leaf?

              Don’t you know that the ABC is already well and truly into advocacy? Anything thing left, socialist, green or anti-Capitalist is the ABC’s raison d’être.

              92

              • #
                el gordo

                Still, the only way for the ACP to get traction in the media is to practice perpetual reanimation, its a fast moving world and Cory needs to focus on the really big controversial issues like climate change, immigration and decentralisation.

                Leading the charge he will receive the brunt of ridicule, does he have heroic qualities?

                72

              • #
                PeterS

                el gordo keep it up and you will paint the ACP worse than the Greens. The ACP is the ONLY party that is on our side. Yes it’s not perfect but given the choices we have what else can we do? Continue to vote for one of the two major parties or the Greens?

                81

              • #
                el gordo

                The Coalition ginger group is our best chance for victory, but failing to bring on a coup by Xmas then Labor should win.

                Of course the situation could radically change, depending on variables like the Ridd saga exposing the weak underbelly of AGW.

                73

              • #
                el gordo

                Cory should return to the Liberal fold and help the Monash Forum topple Malcolm, with the prospect of a front bench seat on offer.

                20

          • #
            truth

            But when preferences are finally distributed, those votes preferencing minor parties will be distributed to Labor or Liberal, depending which of the two the voter gave a higher preference to, yes?

            00

  • #
    Another Ian

    O/T somewhat

    “Climate showdown of the decade?”

    “This manntastic event looms large. With the irascible Dr. Mann pitted against Moore and Curry, fireworks are almost guaranteed. ”

    More at

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/05/28/climate-showdown-of-the-decade/

    72

    • #
      rollo

      It’s sad that many of the commentors at WUWT consider that Mann was the clear winner at the senate hearing over Curry, Pielke and Christy. Why do the comments of an overbearing loudmouth seem to count for more than the considered comments of the others? Mann lost me when he introduced himself as “distinguished”.

      93

  • #
    Graham Richards

    The brainwashing continues. Every energy retailer, TV personality, politician, newspaper keeps telling you how to beat the electricity bill by changing to a different retailer, installing some gizmo or other, switching off during peak hour rates, switching off completely, eating less to save energy, pay your bill on time to get a couple of dollars off. The BS goes on.
    There is one way to reduce it all & retain some sanity….get rid of the subsidies as well as the wanker politicians who are perpeptuating the whole hoax.
    Did you hear Matias Korman telling how not having tax reductions would make Oz uncompetitive overseas? Obviously he believes that the highest energy prices in the world WILL MAKE OZ COMPETITIVE. It’s hard to pick up a pencil to put a cross next to the name of a moron, or his Party, on Election Day.. only one way out of it, dump the Coaltion & Labor. They are not listening

    30

  • #
    Rosco

    This argument is just the same as lukewarm sceptics acknowledging all the flawed IPCC science is right but claiming it really isn’t as bad as they say it will be.

    Me – I say the basic science is totally flawed.

    Until the alarmist message is challenged head on no wonder gullible, rent seeking politicians don’t know what to do.

    Australian’s were stupid to agree to sell off our government owned assets – we are now paying the price for this absurdity in the ever increasing prices for banking, sanitation, water and electricity we see over the last 2 decades.

    We should have remembered that no matter what spin people want to put on government versus market the market only works when there is a large market – something that Australia isn’t.

    Remember all infrastructure in Australia was built by governments – the private sector may have been paid to build it but they didn’t build anything on their own initiative – our governments built almost all of it – roads, rail, water supply, electricity supply and distribution, communication etc.

    What do we get from the private sector electricity today – nothing but taxpayer subsidised windmills or panels.

    We made HUGE mistakes listening to spin doctors in the 80′s and 90′s.

    We went from having house prices that were affordable, plentiful cheap food and expensive luxury items to houses that the young will probably never afford, some of the world’s most expensive energy prices and huge increases in food that Australia was renowned for as cheap.

    We have only ourselves to blame for these idiots we call our parliamentarians – we let them con us decades ago and continue to do so today.

    434

    • #
      el gordo

      You are correct on all points and at its core we see democracy has collapsed and been replaced by a politically correct dictatorship, a pox on both their houses.

      163

      • #
        PeterS

        I have to disagree. Democracy is still alive and well for the most part, at least until it’s taken away from us in due course if we let it. We have the ability to vote for the ACP to put a stop to all this renewables notices in an instant if they achieved the balance of power. Democracy is a wonderful thing if used wisely. The problem is Australians by and large do not use it wisely and if they continue that way one day they will regret losing it.

        92

        • #
          el gordo

          For all intents and purposes it seems to be operating normally, like the Italian model but different.

          ‘Italy is embroiled in a power struggle between Eurosceptic populists – winners of the March election – and pro-EU establishment politicians.

          ‘It took weeks of negotiations for a populist coalition to take shape, but the president has controversially vetoed it, so Italy is now back to square one.
          Now the country faces an interim government – not yet in office – before fresh elections.’

          BBC

          33

          • #
            PeterS

            Well I don’t know of any other peaceful way for the people to tell the politicians that we need to stop the push for renewables. If you can up with one that can influence who is elected into government with the right policies on renewables please let us know. You underestimate the power people have in their very hands but of course they don’t use the other part of their bodies, their brains, to move the hand to the appropriate boxes on the ballot papers and enter the correct numbers.

            41

            • #
              el gordo

              When the subsidies end in a couple of years the renewable industry will crash and burn.

              73

              • #
                PeterS

                Is that supposed to make us all feel better so we can continue to allow LNP or ALP+Greens to form a majority government at the next election?

                62

              • #
                el gordo

                We have the Westminster System with rumps and splinter groups, this reflects our contemporary political culture.

                Australian democracy has fallen under the spell of Cultural Marxism and the electorate appears to be oblivious to the possibility that a Labor victory is the road to socialism with Australian characteristics.

                The Bill and Penny show.

                41

    • #
      manalive

      The privatisation of the electricity in Vic and SA in the mid-‘90s made no significant difference to relative prices, the real escalation in all states, private or government owned generation and distribution, occurred after the election of Rudd and his 20% MRET and subsidies, the slight drop after 2014 was due to the Abbott government dishing the carbon (dioxide) tax.

      142

      • #
        PeterS

        I think we all agree on that. So it stands to reason the only way to get things back to normal is the scrap all subsidies for renewables. ACP is the only party proposing that solution be implemented. So if they manage to obtain the balance of power ACP can then apply sufficient pressure to force the governemtn whoever that might be to stop those subsidies. If ACP can’t manage to do that then all is lost and we all better prepares ourselves for the crash and burn scenario to play out.

        53

        • #
          el gordo

          ‘… scrap all subsidies for renewables.’

          Morrison has promised to do this by 2020, but an Abbott government would move faster.

          If the ACP and One Nation joined in a lose Coalition, they might be a force to be reckoned with.

          Lets pretend this is political science 101, within a decade Australia will be the food bowl, quarry and most preferred tourist destination for the world’s burgeoning middle class. Not our American cousins or old world Europeans, where the populations are in decline.

          Beijing won’t let us crash and burn, they have plans for us.

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            TdeF

            There are no subsidies. There is only theft, taking our money and giving it to others without our knowledge or permission or with any benefit to us. Then we don’t get to own anything and have to pay again.

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              el gordo

              Subsidies for renewables distorted the energy market, a lot of money has gone to waste on this gravy train, but I don’t expect anyone will be held to account.

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              • #
                Kinky Keith

                Many should.

                It is one of the worst things to have ever been done to the Australiun people.

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      • #
        TdeF

        The difference was that the strikes stopped. We used to have strikes everywhere. The electricity would go off at the worst times. The baggage handlers would go on strike for the start of the school holidays. The trams and trains would go on strike at the worst possible times. The docks still go on strike, even though they are 95% automated. Our car manufacturers forced Toyota to leave, supported by the government in the High Court of Australia. Privatization did a lot of good. It is not the problem.

        In electricity, it has been the RET law which has crippled fossil fuel power, oil, gas, coal. Governments have also shut exploration, banned everything, even coal exports in Victoria. Meanwhile billions have been given to save the Great Barrier Reef which does not need saving while people cannot afford to pay their electricity bills. The refineries are gone, the smelters are living on secret handouts and manufacturers are being paid (by us) to stop production when the wind doesn’t blow. The reverse of India when the factories only work when the wind blows.

        The problem was not privatization but politicians passing laws to control the power(RET), the telephones and the internet(NBN), everything. This is to please their mates overseas, bankers like Goldmann Sachs, the widely accused profiteers of the GFC. Now who do we know was chief of Goldmann Sachs Australia?

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      Robert Swan

      Rosco,

      Agreed on the flawed science. Not much agreement on the rest. The old government-run Telecom was woeful in so many ways and the service is a good deal better from the private sector. The mistake was selling off the lines; foolish to have given them a monopoly.

      Perhaps you define “infrastructure” as “things governments built” because only by a definition like that could I agree the governments built our infrastructure. Power stations, for example, were all privately built and run in the early 20th century. They were gradually taken over by local and state governments who turned them into a “benign” monopoly.

      But there is definitely something terribly wrong with the way we’re headed. I think, at its heart, the problem is political parties. For the pollies, allegience is first to self, then to party, then, if convenient, to country. Much as Labor and Liberal pretend to be different, one thing they have agreed on over the last thirty or so years has been the ceding of state powers to the federal government. This has been an ongoing betrayal of state interests in the state parliaments (by both parties) and we now have incompetents in the federal departments interfering with systems — health, education, electricity, etc.– that evolved at a state level. So our least incompetent tier of governemnt, state, vacates the field in favour of the most incompetent.

      I suspect they favour this centralising because it makes the federal election a “winner takes it all” event; appeals to their egos.

      Much the same has gone on the USA, I believe, but their party excesses are limited by the popularly elected president not necessarily being a party animal. Here, the political parties are free to run the country into the ground.

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      PeterS

      We have only ourselves to blame for these idiots we call our parliamentarians – we let them con us decades ago and continue to do so today.

      100% correct. Too bad Australians don’t make the right decision at the ballot box. Voters have one last chance to redeem themselves by supporting ACP to hold the balance of power. ACP is the only real party that has the right policies to put a stop to all this renewables nonsense.

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    • #
      RickWill

      What do we get from the private sector electricity today – nothing but taxpayer subsidised windmills or panels.

      This statement is not accurate. It is only accurate to the point that the individual is both a tax payer and electricity consumers. Only electricity consumers pay the subsidies.

      You could be on a pension not paying any direct tax but if you are consuming electricity and paying for it you are subsidising the wind generators at a rate of about 100% above the value of their production in the wholesale market. You are subsidising local rooftop solar roughly 50% of their capital cost up front.

      This is an important and clear distinction. It is nuts that the people’s party want more intermittent generation in the system because it disadvantages the already disadvantaged..

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      • #
        PeterS

        Correct. According to the Primer on renewable energy subsidies in Australia Report to the Minerals Council of Australia by BAEconomics:

        Renewable energy mandates such as the RET require that a share of wholesale electricity be generated from renewable energy sources, such as wind or solar. Electricity generated from rene wable sources is generally more costly than electricity generated from ‘conventional’ sources, and is generally not commercially viable. All renewable energy mandates therefore establish subsidy mechanisms that provide payments to the owners of the renewable generation capacity. The sums involved are generally not transparent and must be compiled or estimated from various source

        http://www.minerals.org.au/file_upload/files/reports/MCA-renewables-subsidies-8Jan2017-2.pdf

        It goes on to say the payments to the owners of renewable generation sources are recouped via various means but they all ultimately come from the customers via higher network charges.

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        Sceptical Sam

        That’s correct Rick. However, I’d prefer not to call them “subsidies” since they don’t come from government but from the consumer. Better to call them consumer transfer payments to make it clear.

        The real problem is not the privatisation of public infrastructure, but governmental interference in (manipulation of) the market to achieve other outcomes.

        The consequences of that interference is clear for all to see who have a desire to understand. Higher prices to the public and to industry; industry inefficiency and sliding competitiveness; industry closures and “off-shoring”; and, concomitant increasing levels of unemployment – to name just a few.

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      Geoff Sherrington

      The BIG problem is that free enterprise has not been given freedom to show its benefits, for quite a few decades now.
      So shallow commentators are claiming that it is a mistake to privatise what was once run by governments.
      That is a false conclusion. Geoff

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  • #
    Zigmaster

    The last 10 years or so have been very frustrating as an Australian climate skeptic. Even under Abbott there was never any courage to take alarmists head on. The Liberals have suffered from the delusion that voters who believe in climate change are worth chasing up. If they are so gullible to be sucked in by it they are too far gone to change votes from Labor / Greens to Liberal. Turnbull rigs the circumstances whether by his appointments to the ABC or as chief scientist. In all aspects of our life our institutions , corporations, public service , churches, governments have been infiltrated by alarmists. It’s incredible how alarmists have achieved positions of power in big business, Eg BHP, AGL , all the banks etc. in religion, the Pope, all governments , UK, France, Australia., all educational institutions particularly unis.
    I sometimes think that this infiltration is not accidental. I find it amazing that the assumption about AGL is that it’s CEO Vesey wants to shut Liddel because he’s wanting to manipulate supply , push prices up and improve the return for shareholders. The reality is the last person he thinks of is the shareholders . He has one motive, to change the weather, increased potential profits is the ruse.
    I look at the capturing of our institutions combined with the manipulation of data by these idealists whether by scientists or weather bureaus and wonder whether we have been invaded somehow by aliens who have put some drug into water systems that makes people gullible like climate zombies not quite brain dead but not quite fully human with a view of taking over the world.
    And I look to people like Jo and Antony Watts and Ander Bolt as resistance fighters fighting for the survival of the human race. And one thing I do know is that without Trump the world would be totally stuffed. It takes courage to fight against powerful forces and unfortunately except for a few lone voices such as Craig Kelly Australia have a bunch of pretty gutless politicians to choose from.

    It will only become clear in hindsight but Global Warming Alarmism is the greatest moral issue of our time.

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      el gordo

      The MSM is uncritical, they have created delusion on climate change. Particularly the moral bankruptcy of the taxpayer funded ABC is most to blame and in this article today its possible to see the propaganda writ large.

      http://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2018-05-29/great-barrier-reef-coral-death-event-climate-change-sea-levels/9801634

      Even though the GBR survived glaciation it won’t survive human induced CO2.

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      Tom R Hammer

      I don’t agree with your comments about Vesey and AGL. There is no profit in coal fired electricity while money is withdrawn to deposit in the accounts of wind and solar electricity generation. There’s no requirement for AGL to extend the life of Liddell especially if there’s no incentive to do so. When the profit returns, then AGL’s attitude will change. Unfortunately, that profit will be comprised of funds from the Australian taxpayer as the politicians in desperation to avoid blackouts, subsidise Liddell…heavily.

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        beowulf

        I agree that Vesey is dollar-driven. I don’t believe climate change enters his irksome, smirking head, other than as a convenient excuse for more $$.

        There is however no need for tax dollars to be used to prop up Liddell. Alinta is willing to invest 1 billion of its own dollars into Liddell for upgrades in addition to $250 million to buy the thing from AGL. Clearly it sees a commercial future in the existing power station.

        All that is required of government is to resume the land on which Liddell sits, plus half the land under Lake Liddell next door (to ensure a water supply) and offer it for sale to a bidder who promises to keep it open for at least 10 years or whatever. Governments have no hesitation in forcibly acquiring hundreds of private homes across cities when they get a bee in their bonnet about building a new freeway for the public good, so why are Liddell and energy security any different in principle? Should AGL object to the price offered they can always be reminded that they said the power station was defunct, worn out and worthless.

        Then we get Frydenberg standing up and saying — with a straight face I might add — that compulsory acquisition is not in Liberal Party values. What a joke! Apparently it IS within Liberal values to force power users to buy vastly more expensive wind and solar power in place of cheap coal power; it IS within Liberal values to force power consumers to subsidise foreign companies to throw up bird-chopping turbines and inefficient solar panels. That stuff is OK because Mal and Josh and the Insect and Hunt say it’s OK.

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        Tom R Hammer

        By the time the lawsuits settle, it will be cheaper for the Aussie government to purchase a majority shareholding in AGL.

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        Graeme No.3

        The NEG scheme is supposed to bring lower prices by adding more renewables to the grid. There have been suggestions that the cost of HELE coal fired had been inflated, apparently because so many countries are rushing to install them as “the cheapest source or reliable electricity. For all that referring to the Finkel report I see that ALL the grid type renewables will be MORE EXPENSIVE in 2030 than HELE coal fired.

        Solar with storage 87.
        Solar thermal 109
        Wind turbines 79
        OCGTs 135 (essential backup for renewables) or Snowy 2 sometime never-never.

        HELE coal 75

        So adding more expensive methods, even without subsidies under the RET, is going to reduce electricity prices???? Electricity bills are going to keep going up.
        Watch out for flocks of flying pigs and unemployed Liberal politicians. All Labor has to do is replace Shorten just before the election and they will win in a landslide..

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      truth

      Zigmaster..

      Tony Abbott was only given 15 months in government before the first ‘empty chair spill’ that was a Turnbull challenge by proxy because the parasite didn’t have the guts to be up-front.

      Following that the MSM vultures and SKY-ABC and Turnbull’s Lefty Wet plotters spent the 8 months till their COUP crippling Abbott with constant attacks and leadership speculation designed to drive down the polls and embolden the feral senate including Palmer with whom Turnbull was having assignations for the titillation and USE of his SKY/ABC COUP teams. Even Al Gore slithered over to help Palmer/Turnbull and the feral Senate in their mission to nobble Australia and stop Abbott….Gore having a special interest in maintaining the carbon tax…which Turnbull also wanted maintained.

      IMO Turnbull was plotting with Palmer 2 ensure budget repair measures would be blocked in the Senate…ie he was deliberately damaging Australia for his own power grab.

      It’s unreasonable to say Abbott lacked courage.

      He’s the most courageous..prescient…rational..knowledgable PM Australia has had in my lifetime and IMO…Menzies his only rival in history.

      Howard’s lost it in my estimation with his promotion of and propping up of Turnbull and his COUP..

      Character matters IMO.

      No new leader who won in a huge landslide has EVER been subjected to such sabotage and subversion…and yet during those short months…diminished by two Christmas breaks….Tony Abbott managed to do more than ANY other PM has done in his first term…including… repealed the carbon tax & mining tax…stopped the boats to secure the borders…reversed LABOR’s huge decline in defence spending …restored the live cattle trade…tried to have BoM audited and to cut back th RET…stymied by Hunt & other Turnbull plotters..resisted ratification of the Paris Agreement against a great deal of pressure…with Obama & Xi interfering …cut read and green tape massively…signed 3 huge FTAs that Turnbull’s now profiting from…made the decision and began the process of building Sydney’s second airport…a project Turnbull’s profiting from …cleaned up Gillard’s spy mess with Indonesia…established the Northern Australia development process…and much more.

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    manalive

    Jo has hit the nail on the head here when it comes to planet-saving there is no ‘sensible centre’; his apparent henpecked spinelessness is the quality I most despise in Turnbull.

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      the thing I hate most is his active deception…

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        PeterS

        No different to that of Rudd, Gillard and Shorten. What really amazes me is how well Turnbull has convinced so many other Liberal party members to follow him all the way to the cliff and eventually over it.

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        • #
          el gordo

          Breaking Nooze

          North Queensland MP Bob Katter will test the strength of his colleagues’ concern over the sacking of James Cook University Professor Peter Ridd by calling for a full inquiry.

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      • #

        Jo, start a discussion on agenda 2030 of the UN. This is what Au governments have signed up to. Point of no return.

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    Robber

    Why do we never see quoted the comparable costs of electricity generation? If intermittent “renewables” are lower cost as we keep getting told, where is the evidence?
    We currently have the RET (Renewable Energy Target) that mandates that 23.5% of electricity must be supplied by renewables by 2020, including 6% hydro).
    Now we are to have the NEG (National Energy Guarantee)
    “A reliability guarantee will be set to deliver the right level of dispatchable energy—from ready-to-use sources such as coal, gas, pumped hydro and batteries—needed in each state. It will be set by the AEMC and AEMO. An emissions guarantee will be set to contribute to Australia’s international commitments. The level of the guarantee will be determined by the Commonwealth and enforced by the AER. This two-part Guarantee, proposed by the Energy Security Board, will deliver affordable and reliable energy for households and businesses without subsidies, taxes, emissions trading schemes or carbon prices”.
    So no subsidies, just regulations. Yes Minister.
    But there is more: “In addition, the Government has already advanced a lower emissions energy system through a range of actions.
    – Clean Energy Finance Corporation (CEFC)—commitments of more than $4.3 billion for projects worth over $11 billion (as at 30 June 2017).
    – Australian Renewable Energy Agency (ARENA)—commitments of more than $1 billion matched by more than $2.5 billion in co-funding (as at 30 June 2017).
    – The $2.5 billion Emissions Reduction Fund, providing incentives for organisations and individuals to adopt new practices and technologies to reduce their emissions.
    – We are also exploring advances in cleaner energy solutions.
    – Supporting carbon capture and storage (CCS) to capture emissions from power plants and industrial sites. We have introduced a Bill to the Parliament to remove the CEFC’s prohibition from investing in CCS technology.
    – Providing up to $110 million for a new concentrated solar thermal (CST) power plant in Port Augusta, South Australia, supplementing funding available through ARENA and the CEFC, if required”.

    Nowhere in all of these government reports is any evidence that “renewables” are cheaper, yet that keeps getting repeated in media commentary. So where are the facts?

    Dr Alan Finkel did report to the government in June 2017: Independent Review into the Future Security of the National Electricity Market – Blueprint for the Future.
    There he reported in Appendix A the average levelised costs of electricity in 2020:
    Wind without backup $92/MWhr
    Large solar PV without backup $91/MWhr
    Large solar PV with 3 hours backup $138/MWhr
    Solar Thermal with 12 hours backup $172/MWhr
    Gas closed cycle $83/MWhr
    Gas open cycle $123MWhr
    Supercritical coal $76/MWhr
    Ultra supercritical coal $81/Mwhr
    Unfortunately he did not report on new hydro (we are not allowed to build any new dams) or pumped hydro per Snowy 2 (business case is confidential).

    So there is the evidence that I have never seen disputed. Even new coal stations are lower cost than wind/solar with storage or with gas backup.

    And actual market data per AEMO:
    – SA prices 2015/16 $62; 2017/18 $97 (closed last coal station 2016)
    – Vic prices $46; $92 (closed Hazelwood coal station 2017)

    Yes minister, high electricity prices are hurting consumers and industry, but we are meeting our international commitments and saving the world. And based on Energy Security Board advice, it is expected that the Guarantee could lead to a reduction in residential bills in the order of $120 per year over the 2020–2030 period.

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      John in Oz

      Your response includes a major issue we have with attempting to run the power system in that there are so many ‘players’:

      RET
      NEG
      AEMC
      AEMO
      The Commonwealth (adding additional monies (= influence) to all other abbreviated organisations)
      AER
      Energy Security Board
      CEFC
      ARENA
      ERF
      Various ‘independent’ reviews

      “A camel is a horse designed by a committee” seems apt when seeing what comes out of this conglomerate of organisations, none of whom are trying to make their jobs obsolete. Empire building at its best.

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      • #
        Geoff Sherrington

        JiO,

        So, so true. Lamentably. I do not know the fine structure of these bodies, but if there are just a few in a vertical hierarchy, then those at the bottom turn a profit, goes to next layer up who uses it to turn a bigger profit, ditto next layer, ditto next layer. So a small sum of money (often from the taxpayer) becomes inflated through profit reporting and transfers out of proportion to reality. Geoff.

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    • #
      RickWill

      The fundamental error is comparing levelled cost of electricity from ambient generators to that of dispatchable generation. The comparison is ONLY valid if there is INFINITE STORAGE in the network, The Australian NEM has negligible storage. The battery in South Australia will supply 7% of the average demand in SA for a little over an hour. That is a long way short of INFINITE.

      Without storage ambient generation needs to be buffered with gas for the times it does not produce. Gas is very expensive compared with coal.

      Storing electrical energy is very expensive. Ambient electricity buffered by battery storage would have a price about 5 times the current wholesale price and 7 times the cost of generation from new coal or 12 times the cost from old coal.

      The politicians in Germany are just waking up to this reality. In Australia, demonising CO2 is the gift that keeps giving for those involved in power generation, including the 2 million households that have installed solar panels (providing they are installed properly and maintained). As you see by the vast investments involved saving the planet is expensive, creating massive opportunities to invest funds and get government guaranteed returns. At least up to the point where the grid collapses literally or economically.

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      • #

        RickWill mentions this:

        The fundamental error is comparing levelled cost of electricity from ambient generators to that of dispatchable generation. The comparison is ONLY valid if there is INFINITE STORAGE in the network, The Australian NEM has negligible storage. The battery in South Australia will supply 7% of the average demand in SA for a little over an hour.

        Let me show you something here.

        Original electricity versus stored electricity, like that Battery.

        I’ll use Bayswater again., and do the exercise for just the one hour, because, really, that’s all the Battery has in it.

        At Peak Power time, with Bayswater having all four Units on line, and delivering at maximum, (original generated electricity) there’s 2640MW for one hour at a cost of what the cost is at that Peak time, and let’s use an average $75/MWH, so Bayswater is getting just a tick under $200,000 for that ONE HOUR.

        Battery. Same one hour, same Peak period, same cost. The battery has charged up at off Peak time, so costing, say, $55/MWH to charge up, so the sale price for the electricity is now $75/MWH minus the $55/MWH to charge it up, so now only $20/MWH, and that’s assuming the power in equals power out, and all Batteries have losses, so at 90% (best case scenario) of $20 is $18/MWH and 70MW for one hour, so 70MWH, multiplied by that $18 comes in at $1260.

        Bayswater – $200,000

        Battery – $1260 – so 0.63% of what Bayswater is getting.

        How many batteries just to EQUAL Bayswater – 160 of them. Hornsdale battery cost – well, whatever, and who cares when you need 160 of them just to equal Bayswater, and then on top of that, you still need a source of CHEAP electricity to charge them up in the first place.

        But of course, not one single person (of a political or green persuasion) will ever even bother to tell that to the Australian public, well, they’d (politicians) be hard pressed understanding it in the first place, let alone bothering to find out for themselves, or even asking someone to tell them.

        We are all well and truly in the bovine waste product.

        Tony.

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          Robber

          Agree Tony, the comparison needs to be of the cost of dispatchable power. Batteries aren’t even in the ballpark, so you need to cost open cycle gas turbines into the equation to provide power when the sun isn’t shining and the wind isn’t blowing. Dr Finkle did that for solar – $172/Mwhr with 12 hours storage (still not enough), but for some reason he didn’t cost wind with backup (too embarrassing?).
          Why will no politician and no journalist ask these critical questions?

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      • #
        Robber

        Agree Rick. So every wind/solar generator should be obliged to deliver dispatchable power, and costed accordingly. So wind $92/MWhr without backup, backed up with open cycle gas turbines at $123/Mwhr – effective cost of wind $150/Mwhr.

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    Jonesy

    This is what happens when you let lawyers run the place. They stand for nothing, they have no opinion, they have no understanding. Above all, they do not care if they are right or wrong. The only goal is to win the debate.

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      Ian1946

      they do not care if they are right or wrong. The only goal is to win the debate.

      But only if lots of money is at stake.

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    TdeF

    Ok. In moderation. It’s hard to be moderate with Tunrbull and Bishop in charge. It’s like Teresa May leading the Tories on Brexit. Or listening to Hillary Clinton on ethics.

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      TdeF

      Turnbull, the Labor/Green one seat Prime Minister is a dead duck. 52/48 has been the case for a year. 30 Newspolls?

      More popular than Shorten is not an argument to lead the party to massive defeat on a platform of same as. Of course Shorten will be tossed aside at the last minute for Albanese, removing that meaningless lead, so the choice will be between Labor and Labor. Again.

      However the landslide coming will eliminate 1/3 of the Liberal MPs who might just be motivated to put someone in charge who is not Labor. Everyone in Australia knows the only voice against Green madness is Tony Abbott. Frydenberg and Morrison and Bishop are all hopelessly tarnished. Barnaby is history. There is only Abbott.

      We all know Abbott’s policies. He always talks sense. Cheap coal electricity. Immigration. Defence. Save Liddell. Restart Hazelwood. Exports. Jobs. Green the planet with trees. Stop the boats, kill the RET, stop the invasion being sold as migration. Integrate the new arrivals before welcoming more. Get the factories working again, with the world’s lowest electricity prices. Make people pay for their own solar panels and batteries and stop mad payin rates for unwanted lunchtime solar. Restart our metals industry, aluminum, lead, zinc refineries, plastic recycling and get Adani moving and find more gas, coal and oil. Make Australia great again.

      If the Liberal party is to survive, it must turn to Abbott. They must confront the appalling ABC/SBS monolith, unaccountable and costing $1300Million a year and working for themselves. Denigrating Australia. We will not be lectured any more by ABC journalists on immigration, defence, economy, religion and how bad the British and Europeans are and how bad we are. What has the ABC or Labor done for aboriginals? Nothing. The ABC f*ke 5,000 need to get real jobs or do the one they are paid to do. Enough f*ke news, f*ke science, f*ke economics and attacks on Australia’s history, culture and future. Sell the place. Let them find real jobs.
      The Liberals have nothing to lose. Turnbull has the ego of Rudd with the ethics of Gillard. Not an idea or policy between them. Snowy 2.0 is utterly *bsurd.

      Consider that Abbott has nothing to lose in fighting Their ABC where conservatives cannot get a job, as in the universities here and in the US. Australia needs a real leader like Trump or Abbott, not another backroom assassin like Shorten or Turnbull or Bishop.
      Then get Canberra out of the energy business. Fast. Repeal the RET (Renewable Energy (Electricity) Act 2000). Let investors pay for their own windmills, solar panels, batteries. The whole disaster will stop overnight. Canberra is at war with Australia, Brussels with Britain and Washington with America. Cheap energy is our birthright. We are being r*bbed.

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      lance

      Offside comment, but Turd Bull is the correct spelling.

      53

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      Hillary Clinton on ethics

      Love it!

      Or Bill Clinton on fidelity.

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  • #
    PeterPetrum

    No wonder you got a 10 out of 10 for this article, Jo, Your third last para just sums up the whole argument so succinctly it should be the subject of a National Referrendum! Question – Do you want no CO2 and nuclear power or do you want cheap, reliable power 24 hours a day by the cheapest, historically tried and tested technology available? Simples!

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    • #
      WXcycles

      Personally, I think it could have been a bit more scathing, Jo’s gone a bit easy on them.

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  • #
    Kinky Keith

    The Liberals want that confusion.

    It is created deliberately.

    There is a reason.

    It concerns the flow of money.

    That is politics.

    Three people have fallen foul of this drive to maintain confusion.

    Selby.
    Carter.
    Ridd.

    Provision of electricity is a public utility which can be provided easily, reliably and cheaply.

    Why is that not happening. Why? Why.

    There are usually 3 thimbles in the old pea and thimble trick but I think politicians are so contemptuous of voters that they think they only need two to fool most of us.

    We Are Being Seriously Ripped Off.

    There are money flows that are at the very least Unethical.

    I’m sure you all could think of a stronger description for this misdirection of funds but can’t use that word here.

    KK

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      Sceptical Sam

      Three people have fallen foul of this drive to maintain confusion.

      Selby.
      Carter.
      Ridd.

      + 1 (Abbott) = 4.

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      • #
        Kinky Keith

        True.

        And the missing word was theft.

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        truth

        Add Clive Spash to that list, Sceptical Sam.

        Spash worked at the CSIRO and researched Rudd’s CPRS.

        His conclusions were very much unfavourable with regard to the viability of it and he was forced out after trying to publish his findings and being stopped…. dumped despite the fact that like everyone else at the CSIRO he was a true believer in the dodgy CONSENSUS.

        Not enough to be generally in sync…has to be lock step apparently.

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    • #

      ’m sure you all could think of a stronger description for this misdirection of funds but can’t use that word here.

      Why not Keith? Here. I have gotten away with Blow dat out yur ass MF. OTOH Joanne is nice lady, when not pissed at you. Perhaps we should keep it such! :-)

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      Rob Leviston

      ‘There are money flows that are unethical’
      Never a truer word! After the banks, and now Super, the power rorts have to be in there as well! doesn’t matter where we look, Joe Public is getting ripped off big time!

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    Tom R Hammer

    Canberra is comprised entirely of Labor supporting, man made climate change promoters. Don’t know what it’s like now, but any public servant skeptic in Canberra up until a year ago was treated with ridicule and derision. It’ll take a major sea change, policy about-face and departmental bloodletting to turn that attitude around. Additionally, Turnbull is indebted to the ABC. The organization has been a useful conduit for spreading rumors and innuendoes to kneecap his political rivals and potential challengers. Don’t expect the ABC to feel reigned in anytime soon under Turnbull.

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      TdeF

      Canberra, Washington and Brussels. The vote in Washington was 98.4% for Hillary, so it’s Washington and the Universities vs the people. There is not a Republican in 39% of US Universities (in the Australian).

      In Europe 10,000 public servants in Brussels earn more than the British PM. Self serving, self important, arrogant and rich public servants running countries and trashing any idea of democracy. Yes, it is a conspiracy. Of utter self interest. They are the ones smashing the borders, trashing our industries and lecturing us on right and wrong, on ethics and the environment. That makes sense. All they see are beautiful offices, parks and gardens and luxury holidays. At our expense. The Eloi.

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        RicDre

        “The vote in Washington was 98.4% for Hillary”

        This is not surprising as Washington DC is generally described in the USA as a city surrounded by reality.

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    Jeff

    We need Jo elected to a seat in the senate holding the balance of power.

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    PeterS

    I’m really surprised by many of the comments here today. I thought we all have learned enough to understand what the problem is and how to fix it. We certainly have had enough discussions on this topic to make the one and only decisive move that will put a stop to all this renewables nonsense. All other suggestions, hopes, wishes and dreaming are useless. If Australians really wants to put a stop to all this renewables nonsense then all they have to do is exercise their democratic right and vote for ACP above all other candidates where possible. If enough voters do just that the whole renewables industry will come crashing down once ACP manage to hold the balance of power with or without the support of ON. Otherwise the only thing that will crash and burn is Australia. ACP’s policies on energy for Australia are exactly what we need, and it’s the only party that is serious.

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      TdeF

      As Abbott maintains, splintering the Liberal party achieves nothing, except to make the Senate even more unworkable. What we need is to put back the leader who stopped the boats, lectured Europe on the dangers of uncontrolled migration and removed the Carbon Tax and Mining Tax. The ACP will only preference the Liberals anyway, but any leakage will just put the boats back on the shore and bodies in the sea.

      More than anything, repeal the RET. That would put Hazelwood back in action tomorrow and making existing coal power stations profitable would fix most problems. The non science that brown coal is so much worse than any other coal (because it is 66% water) is driving this. Then black coal is blacker. Even invisible ethane is vilified under the RET along with invisible Carbon Dioxide.

      Our country is being run by l**nies. Science ignorant l*wyers. Opportunists. All claiming to represent us when they are actually doing as they please.

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      wal1957

      PeterS

      Okay, we understand that you are voting for ACP. I will probably vote for ACP as well.

      I have gotten to the stage of only glancing at your messages. If I see ACP anywhere, I don’t bother reading it. Fair dinkum mate, you’re like a broken record. Please give it a rest.

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      • #
        PeterS

        OK then go back to sleep with the rest of the country and wait for the crash and burn.

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        • #
          wal1957

          …sigh

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        • #
          WXcycles

          Peter, what is wrong with you? He said he will probably vote ACP, so you tell him to go back to sleep?

          I agree with him, put a sock in it with all the political lobbying, we have secret ballots for a reason, so our vote is really our own vote.

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      • #
        robert rosicka

        I never get sick of seeing ACP or Pat or Tdef’s comments even toorightmate’s Barb about Co2 ,yes there preaching to the converted but jo is getting new people all the time reading this blog .

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          PeterS

          Yes indeed. Also it pays to repeat them since even some here keep forgetting how simple one solution is even though the chances of being implemented are next to zero. Although we are probably wasting our time we all still have to give it our best shots. We have to maintain our focus on as many fronts as possible to maximise our chances of success even if we are up against formidable forces that will very likley win in the sort to medium term.

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      truth

      PeterS…

      I don’t know of any ACP candidates in the lower house…are there any? Voting for them in the Senate’s the thing to do of course but doesn’t help AT ALL to get rid of the Turnbull-led Liberal party.

      A vote for ANY minor party doesn’t help at all to vote out the GreenLEFT mole squatting in the Liberal PMship..Turnbull…because all votes preferencing a minor party will go to Turnbull LNP or Shorten Labor once distributed.

      Only getting rid of the GreenLEFT Turnbull PMship ..will stop his MANIC TRANSITION of Australia from 1st world wealth as an energy superpower to 3rd world poverty as an energy-poor and insecure country unable to fund jobs..safety nets like Medicare..PBS..NDIS..pensions etc and unable to secure our borders and defend ourselves…. because we’ll have little profitable industry and severely diminished export income.

      00

  • #
    Another Ian

    Courier Mail headline just now

    “AGL has become Australia’s biggest carbon polluter”

    Behind the Murdoch wall

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  • #
    pat

    it sounds too good to be true:

    29 May: Newcastle Herald: Damon Cronshaw: Renewable power that’s set to help replace coal-fired power in Australia
    A Newcastle company has secured a $700 million investment from Swiss private equity firm Partners Group to build large-scale wind, solar and battery projects in NSW.
    CWP Renewables said the deal, announced on Monday night, will build enough renewable energy [more than 1300 megawatts] to help replace the Hunter’s coal-fired Liddell power station…

    The entire plan, known as the Grassroots Renewable Energy Platform, is set to be built over the next four years.
    “These projects will help with the transition away from fossil-fuelled electricity [in NSW],” CWP Renewables CEO Alex Hewitt said.
    “Significantly, our portfolio combines the benefits of wind and solar generation with large-scale batteries, allowing morning and evening wind-generation to be combined with daytime solar-generation and battery energy storage.
    “This is the future of large-scale generation in Australia. We can, from this large portfolio, produce 24-7 baseload renewable power at very competitive prices.”…

    CWP Renewables is also developing a 200-megawatt solar and battery-storage project at the Sapphire site to complement the wind farm.
    This battery, combined with wind and solar power, was a “game-changer” that would allow “low-cost, firm-volume electricity” to be provided to commercial and industrial users.

    “We’ve developed our NSW portfolio out of our Newcastle offices. It would be great to go full circle and contract some of this renewable power to commercial and industrial users in the Hunter,” (CWP Renewables chief operating officer Ed) Mounsey said.
    https://www.theherald.com.au/story/5433529/newcastle-companys-massive-wind-and-solar-projects-to-help-replace-coal-photos/

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    • #
      PeterS

      The madness continues, as long as we continue to allow leaders like Turnbull and Shorten free reign.

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    • #
      John in Oz

      produce 24-7 baseload renewable power at very competitive prices.

      Competitive compared to what?

      00

    • #
      truth

      Pat …if this company is going to take care of the Liddell deficit I wonder what happens 2 Vesey’s similar plan….is there going to be a huge over-build with the two projects…as there MUST be to overcome the intermittency problem…even with batteries.

      In the over-build situation are many solar/wind farms just going to lie idle for some contingency…and how will they be profitable…surely only by getting big prices for the contingency as coal and gas are now getting…only to bribe them to stick around…pushing up our electricity prices of course.

      Coal and gas are the sort of useful idiots of the NEM…used and abused and treated like cockroaches …until they can be finally discarded.

      If you read the AEMO documents you see that when it comes to renewable energy…it’s always the consumer who pays for the limitations due to intermittency…for the firming costs and the frequency services…and synchronous condensors or whatever will be used for inertia to maintain system security and strength…all of those services that coal-fired power stations have always provided inherently …as a matter of course at no extra cost to consumers.

      The RE generators that CAUSE all the instability and huge extra costs…uber-rich carpetbaggers joining the gold rush for ATP subsidies… from all over the world…are a protected species…they don’t even have to pay to connect to the grid…and they have favoured status in the merit order for dispatch….freezing out coal and gas.

      And yet we’re told the process is ‘technology agnostic’…a rancid LIE.

      The thing is their whole RE package is weather-dependent because wind and solar are weather-dependent …and the batteries are no good without weather-dependent wind and solar to keep them charged…and to power the batteries’ aircon etc.

      The fact that Snowy 2.0 wants COAL GONE or ‘our business case is toast’ and they want only wind and/ or solar to power their pumped hydro…means that Snowy2.0 becomes weather-dependent too…and if there’s a drought , as in 2007 when Snowy Hydro almost had to shut down completely….they really ARE toast….and so are we.

      So Australia’s essential service…that on which EVERYTHING else depends… with Turnbull’s TRANSITION will be pretty much completely weather-dependent one way or another….generation and storage.

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      • #
        Kinky Keith

        This sort of thing makes me sick. To think that politicians are prepared to preside over this abuse of the people is appalling.

        KK

        20

      • #

        https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-06-05/wind-disappears-in-britain-leaving-turbines-at-a-standstill

        “Highlights need for back up generation when wind isn’t blowing.” They’re not kidding.

        If these people win the War on Coal they will win it for “back up”. For Tex and Habib. And the biggest loser will be that great lump of a continent called Australia, chock full of coal…but waiting for Tex and Habib to send in the back up.

        I like back up. I like to cook with back up. I like to put back up in my car to make it run. But I’ll take my electricity from my coal, if it’s all the same. It’s right there in our own backyard. That way, if Tex and Habib get too expensive or slow with delivery it’s as much their problem as mine. Depending on Tex and Habib for the electricity supply of a vast coal-rich nation is not smart.

        Let’s say it one more time: Big Green = Big Oil. May as well refer to both of them as Big Back Up.

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  • #
    pat

    NYT behind paywall, but found here:

    28 May: YourNewsNetwork: Source: NYT: Think the Big Banks Have Abandoned Coal? Think Again
    Starting three years ago, the largest American banks vowed to cut back on lending to the coal industry…
    Their pledges seemed so dramatic that Paul Argenti, a professor of corporate communication at Dartmouth’s Tuck School of Business, began citing them in lectures as a rare example of a corporate principle’s trumping profits…

    But Peabody Energy, Arch Coal and Alpha Natural Resources have emerged from bankruptcy, their balance sheets scrubbed clean. President Trump has vowed to support the industry.
    Five of the country’s biggest banks are lending tens or hundreds of millions of dollars to coal companies again, in one case eclipsing what they lent in 2014, before the industry entered a nose dive, according to an analysis by Rainforest Action Network, a liberal environmental group.

    JPMorgan’s coal lending increased to $654 million 2017 from $32 million in 2015, according to the analysis. That was more than the $570 million the bank lent to coal interests in 2014. The vast majority of JPMorgan’s coal loans in 2017 were to Peabody, which emerged from bankruptcy that April.
    Morgan Stanley’s coal loans, though well below their 2014 levels, more than doubled from 2015 to 2017. And though their loans to coal companies haven’t quite reached earlier levels, Goldman Sachs and Bank of America each added new coal loans last year, the analysis shows. Citigroup made more such loans in 2016 and 2017 than it did in 2015, though well below its 2014 figure.
    Combined, the five banks issued about $1.5 billion in new coal-related loans last year, according to Rainforest Action Network.
    The analysis looked only at new loans, not at the banks’ overall exposure to the coal industry…

    Randall Atkins, who briefly worked as a JPMorgan investment banker specializing in the coal industry and now runs Ramaco Resources, a small coal producer based in Kentucky, said the banks’ rapprochement with coal companies was “Banking 101.” Coal producers appear financially healthier now, he said, so banks think they can make money lending to them…

    Mr. Argenti, the Dartmouth professor, said he would no longer cite the banks’ coal pledges in his classroom lectures on corporate responsibility.
    “A lot of what passes for sustainability is actually nothing more than public relations,” he said.
    https://yournewsnetwork.com/2018/05/think-the-big-banks-have-abandoned-coal-think-again/

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    RobK

    Either man-made emissions matter or they don’t. If they do matter, do something, go nuclear. If they don’t matter, laugh and axe the tax, and then count up all the seats you are about to win…

    That pretty much sums it up as i see it. Well said.

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    pat

    behind paywall:

    Aurizon coal dispute overshadows Annastacia Palaszczuk Japan trade trip
    The Australian · 2 hours ago

    Dispute sparks threat to major coal exports
    Courier Mail · 1 day ago

    a somewhat confusing media release…if interested, read all:

    21 May: Qld Resources Council: Media release: Aurizon CEO must explain actions after Japan steel makers warnings
    Statement by Queensland Resources Council Chief Executive Ian Macfarlane
    Aurizon Chief Executive Officer Andrew Harding must explain why he ramped up the dispute with the Queensland Competition Authority (QCA) after Japanese steel makers raised concerns about his company’s actions to restrict the movement of metallurgical coal from central Queensland mines to export ports…

    Japan is Queensland’s second largest export market and it has been a key partner for our State’s resources industry for more than half a century – a key customer and investor.
    At a time when the industry and the Queensland Government is striving to increase exports and jobs, Aurizon is actively working against our efforts…
    The loss of 20 million tonnes would reduce Queensland exports by up to $4 billion and cut royalties payable to the Queensland Government, to reinvest in infrastructure for all Queenslanders, by up to $500 million…

    Background
    In February, Aurizon announced it would change its maintenance program and that conceded this would impact on the movement of up to 20 million tonnes of coal each year…
    Instead of waiting for the QCA’s final decision, Aurizon decided to cut train movements for coal. The Blackwater system, which connects mines such as Rolleston and Minerva to Gladstone, including part of the North Coast Line between Parana and Rocklands, has already been severely impacted…
    https://www.qrc.org.au/media-releases/aurizon-ceo-must-explain-actions-japan-steel-makers-warnings/

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    pat

    behind paywall:

    28 May: UK Times: Emily Gosden: Smart meter rollout faces costly delays
    Consumers ‘will bear costs of technical flaws’
    Technical problems with the government’s £11 billion smart meter rollout risk triggering ever-higher costs for consumers, a leaked energy industry document warns.
    Smart meters cannot be installed in about a third of UK homes because no solution has been found to make them work properly, according to a draft letter from Energy UK, the trade body, written on behalf of all the leading suppliers.
    The rollout also risks a costly hiatus this year as ministers ban the installation of basic meters, which can stop working when the customer switches supplier, before the data infrastructure to support more sophisticated, interoperable meters is working properly, Energy UK claims…

    24 May: UK Telegraph: New smart meter? It could be second-hand – and you still can’t switch energy supplier
    By Sam Meadows
    Faulty second-hand smart meters are being installed in homes despite the next generation of meter being months away from a large-scale roll out.
    New figures from Electralink, the industry data analysts, and seen exclusively by Telegraph Money, reveal that 12,000 first generation smart meters – known as Smets I – are being replaced with other first generation meters every month…

    It is unclear why so many smart meters are being replaced each month, but some suppliers, including Ovo Energy, said they offered a new meter to customers who had lost smart functionality when they switched. Others will simply be broken…

    The Big Six providers all said they would not replace a meter in order to resume smart functionality, as Smets I meters are expected to be enrolled onto the national communications network, operated by the Data Communications Company, part of Capita, which should fix the switching issue…

    Suppliers must comply with strict guidelines known as the Waste Electric and Electronic Equipment Directive when scrapping an old meter. This means producers take “ongoing financial responsibility” for the environmental impact of the waste and are encouraged to separately recycle the parts.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/bills-and-utilities/gas-electric/new-smart-meter-could-second-hand-still-cant-switch-energy/

    LOL! “***more than EIGHT people in Britain are considering buying or leasing an EV in the next five years.”
    (no doubt a typo, but too funny not to excerpt)

    29 May: Business Green: by Staff: Could smart meters speed up the UK’s electric vehicle roll out?
    Smart meters could help unlock already growing consumer interest in electric vehicles (EV), according to a new survey that suggests ***more than eight people in Britain are considering buying or leasing an EV in the next five years.

    The Populus survey of over 2,000 UK adults was carried out on behalf of Smart Energy GB, the government-backed agency tasked with promoting the UK’s smart meter roll out…

    Energy and Clean Growth Minister Claire Perry said the technology had the potential to reduce bills for consumers. “Smart meters give customers control over their energy, lowering bills and unlocking new smarter models for energy supply,” she said. “For example, smart meters will enable our future energy system to better balance supply and demand and create the opportunity of smart charging for electric vehicle owners, enabling better value tariffs to reward drivers for charging their electric vehicles at off-peak times.”…

    The poll comes just days after the government confirmed it will retain grants for plug-in vehicles at their current level until at least October this year and will provide some form of grant support for new EVs until at least 2020…
    https://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news/3033070/could-smart-meters-speed-up-the-uks-electric-vehicle-roll-out

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  • #
    Another Ian

    ” Colorado Resident
    May 28, 2018 at 1:17 pm

    The Democrat party is the party of the poor. It is in their best interest to keep as many people poor as possible. The best way to do that is to make energy as expensive as possible.”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/05/28/largest-colorado-green-group-wont-endorse-boulder-climate-lawsuit/#comment-2828221

    Remind you of something?

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    lance

    I should like to point out a few items, forgive me if they are repetitive.

    1. AU is a Sovereign Nation. Well able to participate at World Scale.

    2. AU has been encumbered by many self serving persons at the expense of AU.

    3. Energy/Grid/Reliability/Jobs/Prosperity. None are mysterious and all are linked.

    4. AU has been robbed naked by their duly elected politicians. Forgive me for that, but US energy costs are 1/3 of AU as defense.

    Give these a read and make up your own mind.

    https://stopthesethings.com/2017/03/13/born-lucky-stars-align-perfectly-for-pms-son-with-mammoth-bet-on-wind-power-outfit-infigen/

    Mr Turnbull and Son have gotten a bit wealthy on the backs of AU. Isn’t that somewhat a criminal event?

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  • #
    pat

    28 May: CornwallLive: £30m wind farm plan ditched because judge doesn’t believe developer’s promise to reduce energy bills
    The High Court judge said Good Energy Generation Limited’s offer to cut local’s electricity rates and invest in the community lacked detail and firm commitment
    by Strand News & Jeff Reines
    https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/30m-wind-farm-plan-ditched-1610372

    28 May: BudeTodayUK: Dismissal of plans for Big Field Wind Farm ‘will be a huge sigh of relief’ for local people, says MP
    by The Post
    THE Conservative MP Scott Mann said he is ‘delighted’ the High Court has dismissed proposals to build a wind farm near Week St Mary.
    The MP for North Cornwall said Good Energy’s appeal with the High Court was ‘dismissed by judges’ on May 25
    Good Energy first submitted plans for 11 wind turbines, also known as the ‘Big Field Wind Farm’, at Creddacott Farm to Cornwall Council in 2014.
    The plans were refused by the local authority with the developer then appealing this decision…

    his appeal was dismissed by the then Communities Secretary Sajid Javid on July 26 2017.
    Good Energy then applied to the High Court for judicial review to try and overturn the decision, prompting Mr Mann to write to Good Energy asking the developer ‘to withdraw their legal action in the High Court’…

    There was opposition from the local community, including the group Communities Against Rural Exploitation (CARE), which has campaigned for more than five years to prevent the development.

    CARE chairman, Richard Sowerby, said: “We are of course delighted by this decision. This proposal has caused anguish and worry for local residents over the last five years. We are very grateful to the many people who have steadfastly worked together to oppose Big Field Wind Farm, a development the Planning Inspector rightly described as ‘an incongruous presence of significant scale, in terms of wind turbine height, and the spread of the array, in many views inland from the AONB and Heritage Coast.”

    Jeremy Ward, CARE committee member and chair of Week St Mary Parish Council, added: “In theory, the developer can apply for a further hearing in the Supreme Court. Given that their proposals and claims have now been refused by Cornwall Council, the Planning Inspector, the Secretary of State and the High Court, we hope they will accept the realities of the situation and put an end to the misery they have caused local people.”

    Welcoming the High Court’s decision, Mr Mann said: “I’m delighted that the High Court has dismissed this appeal by Good Energy and that the will of local people has prevailed…
    http://www.bude-today.co.uk/article.cfm?id=110677&headline=Dismissal%20of%20plans%20for%20Big%20Field%20Wind%20Farm%20%27will%20be%20a%20huge%20sigh%20of%20relief%27%20for%20local%20people,%20says%20MP&sectionIs=news&searchyear=2018

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    pat

    27 May: Toronto Sun: Lorrie Goldstein: Cheap talk on hydro prices from party leaders
    Given that the high cost of electricity was among the biggest issues heading into the June 7 Ontario election, it’s alarming the proposed fixes by NDP leader Andrea Horwath and Progressive Conservative leader Doug Ford aren’t any better than Premier Kathleen Wynne’s.
    Wynne was first out of the gate last year with her so-called “Fair Hydro Plan”, which, absurdly, spends $45 billion to save $24 billion on consumers’ electricity bills — temporarily reducing hydro rates by 25% before sending them into the stratosphere.

    Ontario’s Auditor General and Financial Accountability Office have criticized what they describe as the Liberal government’s smoke-and-mirrors approach to lowering electricity bills, saying they used accounting tricks to keep the costs off the government’s books, resulting in $4 billion more than necessary in interest payments over 30 years.

    While the PCs under former leader Patrick Brown and now, Ford, rightly attacked Wynne’s Fair Hydro Plan as reckless and irresponsible, they’ve since adopted it, claiming they can cut hydro bills by a further 12% in addition to Wynne’s 25%.
    Ford has also promised his first act as premier will be to fire the current Hydro One board and its $6.2 million-a-year CEO, a symbolic gesture enthusiastically welcomed by PC voters, but which won’t do anything to lower electricity rates, or deal with the high cost of electricity generation, since Hydro One only distributes electricity, it doesn’t produce it.

    Ditto NDP leader Andrea Horwath, who is appealing to NDP voters by promising her first act as premier will be to pass legislation to begin buying back the 50.1% of Hydro One shares Wynne sold to the private sector. Horwath’s promised to scrap Wynne’s Fair Hydro Plan, while still cutting hydro rates by up to 30%.
    This even though buying back Hydro One won’t lower electricity rates and will cost the public about $6.4 billion today.

    The flaw in all three leaders’ approaches is that they all promise lower electricity bills by using borrowed money that has to be paid back with interest, or by playing shell games with public money by transferring electricity costs from hydro consumers to taxpayers, and vice versa, ignoring that they’re the same people…

    In reality, returning to sanity in our electricity market can only be achieved through years of fiscal discipline and proper planning, as opposed to pursuing the latest energy fad as the Liberals have done for 15 years — ranging from unreliable, expensive and unneeded wind and solar power, to exorbitant feed-in-tariff pricing, to “smart meters”, all costly disasters the Liberals embarked on without doing a meaningful business plan or thorough cost-benefit analysis.

    The good news is if the polls are correct, Wynne and the Liberals will no longer be in power after the election.
    The bad news is if the PCs or NDP keep pretending there are simple solutions to our electricity crisis, things won’t get any better.

    FROM COMMENTS:
    Roy F. Smith: The only way out of this Hydro mess is to break the contracts signed by the Liberals, the current 60 cent difference in the kilowatt hour paid to the Green energy contracts and what we pay amounts to the Billion dollar a month interest payments which will continue to grow every year. Sooner or later this will have to be addressed by draconian cuts to services or the political will to tear up green energy contracts…

    Jayson Edwards: All well and good except…..it will cost Ontario Billions to cancel those contracts…

    John Hare: Funny, the Conservatives used to be the voice of Fiscal Reason. Now they seem to be just as good as the Socialist Partys at bribing the electorate with their money.
    This is getting Scary.
    http://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/goldstein-cheap-talk-on-hydro-prices-from-party-leaders

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  • #
    pat

    28 May: Detroit News: Opinion: California billionaire wants to raise Michigan’s electricity bills
    By Timothy Benson
    (Timothy Benson is a policy analyst with The Heartland Institute, a nonpartisan, nonprofit think tank headquartered in Arlington Heights, Illinois)
    Steyer has spent hundreds of millions of dollars funding Democratic politicians and pet progressive causes. One of those pet causes had been a push to increase Michigan’s Renewable Energy Standard. NextGen Climate Action, one of Steyer’s myriad advocacy organizations, had spent close to $2 million bankrolling a ballot initiative to bring the issue before the voters on Election Day, if the Legislature didn’t act on it beforehand.

    Current state mandates require Michigan utilities to generate 15 percent of their sales from renewable sources like wind and solar by 2021. Steyer and his allies sought to increase this to 30 percent by 2030. DTE Energy and Consumers Energy, Michigan’s two largest utilities, decided to go full-appeasement and agreed, sub rosa, to increase the mandate to 25 percent by 2030 if Steyer would end the ballot initiative push. Steyer consented, and so, without the consultation of Michigan’s legislators, the Public Service Commission, or voters, a useless and expensive program has become even more useless and even more expensive.

    Renewable energy mandates like Michigan’s (also known as renewable portfolio standards), force expensive, heavily subsidized electricity on ratepayers and taxpayers while providing few, if any, net environmental benefits. A 2014 study from the left-of-center Brookings Institution found wind power is twice as expensive as the conventional power it replaces. Solar power is three times as expensive. This led the study’s author to conclude that “renewable incentives that are biased in favor of wind and solar … are a very expensive and inefficient way to reduce carbon dioxide emissions.”

    Retail electricity prices in states with renewable power mandates are rising twice as fast as the national average, and a 2016 study found the total net cost of these mandates in just 12 states was $5.76 billion in 2016, and it will rise to $8.8 billion in 2030.

    These higher costs impose real burdens on electricity consumers. Low-income families spend a larger share of their household income paying electricity bills than higher-income families; therefore, any policy that increases the price of electricity will disproportionally affect low-income families. More money spent paying the electric bill means less money for food, rent or a mortgage payment, clothing, transportation, or tuition. It also means families will have less money to save. Even worse, roughly one-quarter of Michiganians already live in “energy poverty,” meaning they spend at least 10 percent of their annual income on energy costs.

    At 11.05 cents per kilowatt hour, Michigan residents face the highest retail electricity prices in the Midwest, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. That number will surely rise, as will the number of Michiganians living in energy poverty, all because the state’s monopoly energy utilities cowered before the strongarm tactics of a California billionaire, and unilaterally decided, after they sought and got his blessing, what they thought best for the people of Michigan. And they did so without input from the public or the people’s representatives in Lansing. (Never mind that the last time a ballot initiative to raise the Renewable Energy Standard was voted on in 2012, 62 percent of Michiganians rejected it.)…
    https://www.detroitnews.com/story/opinion/2018/05/29/california-billionaire-wants-raise-michigan-electricity-steyer/642557002/

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    Ross

    I thought Stanford University was one of the top universities –maybe they are in some areas but others still churn out tosh like this.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/world/104297338/world-could-save-us20-trillion-if-we-get-serious-about-global-warming

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    Robber

    And still Minister Josh Frydenberg talks like a bumbling bureaucrat: “Mr Frydenberg said action already taken by the government had lowered wholesale electricity prices by about 30 per cent“. Where, when?
    “Mr Frydenberg suggested the emissions reduction trajectory would be determined by the “least cost”. He said electricity prices in Queensland were expected to fall in the next pricing period, from July, while prices in NSW and SA would remain flat”.
    Meanwhile, electricity consumer price index per ABS – in 2016 120, in 2018 150. That’s a 25% increase in 2 years, that’s what we are complaining about. Stop mumbling Minister, and give us the facts.

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    • #
      robert rosicka

      Mine went down by 30% but then they went up by 35% then another 30% but they did go down by 35% I’m sure because the govt especially a liberal govt wouldn’t lie .

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  • #
    Dennis

    lack of judgement, the painter who ended up in a corner because he did not see the corner.

    And when he was warned the corner was there he kept painting regardless.

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  • #
    Jeff

    Tony Abbott fires warning shot at party leadership on energy

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/tony-abbott-fires-warning-shot-at-party-leadership-on-energy-20180529-p4zi62.html

    Apologies if this has been posted already.

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  • #
    TdeF

    Wouldn’t it be wonderful if the commercial battle was about who could produce the cheapest, most reliable and plentiful electricity?

    Of course there isn’t any substitute for coal. Nuclear is something you use if you don’t have coal. Wind and solar are what you use when you have no choice.

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  • #
    Rob Leviston

    Just in case some have not seen this post in STT.
    21 reasons why wind power will never work!
    https://stopthesethings.com/2018/05/28/looking-for-reasons-why-wind-power-can-never-work-heres-the-top-21/

    21

  • #
    Hanrahan

    Turnbull is the standout least effective I’ve ever seen. Wanna bet he won’t even be able to differentiate the libs from labor on “boat people”?

    31

  • #
    peterg

    There are conservatives like Tony Abbott who appear to understand the politics behind all this climate hysteria and resolutely oppose the climate machine.

    Then there are those capitalists who can sniff out an opportunity to make a buck. The electorate is becoming more aware of these bandwagoners. Allan Jones bangs on and on on his radio program about AGL’s vertical integration in the power generation industry and how they are holding onto a coal fired power station purely to make electric power expensive and to profit from wind farm subsidies.

    Given a choice between scavengers on the right and idealists on the left, the electorate is tending towards the idealists in the forlorn hope they will be less screwed.

    30

  • #
    cedarhill

    It would be laughable if not so sad.

    The Goebbels (lies told frequently and long enough) and Golden Rule (those with gold rule) coalesce prove, again, Nietzsche’s herd of 51% is easily controlled to win elections in Western democracies.

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    Richard Ilfeld

    From half a world away, I still have the unenlightened image of OZ as friendly people, kangaroos, and shrimp on the barbie.
    It is hard to get my head around the idea that, like another energy rich country that elected socialists and absolutely destroyed their economy (Venezuela), an energy rich continent is willing to blow up their power plants, leave their resources in the ground, and self-destruct their economy for a political ideology. In a quintessential Americanism, ‘Say it ain’t so, Jo’.

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    RAH

    Liberal or Labor? Seems there isn’t much to choose between them. Seems to me the answer does not lie in either one.

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    Dave in the States

    Yesterday I was driving, and got a talk radio show on the radio, before switching the station, I noticed they were talking about renewables. They had some “expert” saying that while we are not ready for a complete transition yet, we need to favor the market, through regulations, toward renewables to make sure development continues until adequate storage technology becomes available. I was saying to my self: ” Why not let a true free market decide? It always takes the most efficient path.”

    These guys were claiming to be conservatives and it was a conservative broadcasting outlet. No different from the lefties. All the same fallacies and false assumptions. When I heard Mitt Romney criticizing Trump for pulling out of Paris last year, I realized we are really dealing with the same faulty thinking on these issues regardless of political party.

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    BruceC

    O/T, this popped up on FB last night;

    An Oil Company Just Earned A Huge Settlement After Environmentalists Brought False Charges.
    The Supreme Court of Gibraltar awarded the oil company Chevron $38 million Friday for damages related to charges alleging the company contaminated the Amazon region of Ecuador.

    More; http://dailycallernewsfoundation.org/2018/05/26/an-oil-company-just-earned-a-huge-settlement-after-environmentalists-brought-false-charges/

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