JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Midweek Unthreaded

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Rating: 9.6/10 (14 votes cast)
Midweek Unthreaded, 9.6 out of 10 based on 14 ratings

118 comments to Midweek Unthreaded

  • #
    Yonniestone

    Just came back from our local ANZAC dawn service, it was done in a traditional manner with no excessive talk or speeches that was starting to creep in lets hope this continues.

    Also blessed with mild weather compered to other years and the turnout was good.

    Lest we forget.

    170

  • #
    • #
      Yonniestone

      Sorry for the double post RicDre, I’m using a phone and very poorly I might add.

      20

    • #
      toorightmate

      Just because the German wind and solar industries are collapsing will not be enough reason for our political madmen (and mad women) to stop giving enormous subsidies to continue the UNECONOMIC madness in Australia.
      At present, it’s hard to be much dumber than Australia.
      Some old diggers must really be scratching their heads at the moment wondering what happened to the wonderful country and freedoms they fought for.

      200

    • #

      As I’ve just mentioned on another thread, one big (if not biggest take-up) of solar in the EU has been by Brandenburg. That’s at 52 degrees North. Even Christine Lagarde won’t tan easy up there.

      Well, maybe they can resell their solar panels to all those Eskimos who bought Frigidaires.

      60

  • #
    Yonniestone

    James Delingpole Germany’s Solar Industry Crashes and Burns,

    In 2012 over 7000 megawatts of new solar capacity were added. But in 2012 the boom ended abruptly as new laws on feed-in rates were enacted in order to keep the solar energy supply from going out of control. In 2017, only 600 megawatts of new capacity were expected to be added. That’s a 90% drop!

    I’m feeling soldenfreude.

    100

  • #
    Mark M

    Turns out emitting a trace gas is a truly lousy way of heating oceans and turning oceans acidic causing corals to die …

    Newly discovered Amazon reef is six times bigger than previously thought, and it extends into oil drilling concessions.
    Researchers are now calling on the oil company to cancel its drilling project

    “Here we provide a broad overview of the Great Amazon Reef System (GARS) based on the first-ever video surveys of the region.
    This footage supports four major hypotheses: (1) the GARS area may be six times larger than previously suggested (up to 56,000 km2);
    (2) the GARS may extend deeper than previously suggested (up to 220 m);
    (3) the GARS is composed of a greater complexity and diversity of habitats than previously recognized (e.g., reef platforms, reef walls, rhodolith beds, and sponge bottoms); and
    (4) the GARS represents a useful system to test whether a deep corridor connects the Caribbean Sea to the Southwest Atlantic Ocean.

    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmars.2018.00142/full

    40

    • #
      Hanrahan

      The fact that this reef system is “newly discovered” indicates that it bears no resemblance to our GBR.

      It does put the lie to my assertion y’day that corals can’t grow at depth though. Seems I was wrong.

      70

    • #
      el gordo

      They only recently discovered eight knolls off the Queensland coast, at a depth of 1,170 metres, ‘a remarkable cold-water coral community of living and fossil cold-water coral species, gorgonian sea whips, bamboo corals, molluscs and stalked barnacles.’

      Guardian

      80

  • #
    Another Ian

    More history “reinterpreted”

    “The PBS Newshour Whale Oil Myth”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/category/climate-news/

    40

  • #
    Another Ian

    “EPA to end “secret science” with new transparency law”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/04/24/epa-to-end-secret-science-with-new-transparency-law/

    60

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      Thanks Ian,
      And also thanks for the person who alerted me to the fact that the actual presentation starts at about 43 minutes(!).
      Great news. I hope they make it retrospective.
      Cheers,
      Dave B

      20

  • #
    Mark M

    Science … unsettled …

    If the phenomenon isn’t caused by seals or other animals – and discounting any tantalising conjecture of extra-terrestrials dabbling in the ice – deduction suggests it’s some kind of naturally occurring weather phenomenon we just haven’t had a chance to study up close yet.

    Even NASA Isn’t Sure What’s Making These Bizarre Circles in The Arctic.
    What the heck?

    https://www.sciencealert.com/even-nasa-isn-t-sure-what-s-making-these-bizarre-circles-in-the-arctic-ice-polynyas-seals

    10

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Lost the internet two days ago for 24 hrs again but this time it was because a farmer dug up a main line near Albury with an excavator .
    So now the service is back to its slow old self .

    30

  • #
    Hanrahan

    Where’s the logic in this: Qld is using 240 MW pumping water uphill while simultaneously generating 150 from hydro.

    I didn’t even know that we had a pumped hydro system in Qld. Meanwhile the wind has dropped again in the south.

    80

    • #
      Peter C

      I did not know about an operational pumped hydro system anywhere in Australia.

      This site near Townsville is still in the planning stage;
      https://www.smh.com.au/business/queenslands-snowy-20-pumped-hydro-expands-20171020-gz56nq.html

      20

      • #
        Hanrahan

        Being an old mine, Kidston, it has everything at it’s doorstep, HV transmission line and a pipeline to the Burdekin complete with water allowance, for example.

        But I found this in the comments to the article you linked.

        Science Not Myth6 MONTHS AGO
        Do you know that there is a 5000 megawatt hour pumped hydro facility at Splityard Creek (near Wivenhoe Dam) that has been operating very successfully for 33 years to meet peak demand in SE Qld?

        I never knew that.

        50

        • #
          Peter C

          Thanks Hanrahan!

          Wivenhoe Power Station is the only pumped storage hydroelectric plant in Queensland. It consists of two 285 megawatt units that are the largest hydro machines in Australia. Each generating unit when in operation has 1,450 tonnes spinning at 150 revolutions per minute.

          http://www.csenergy.com.au/content-(168)-wivenhoe.htm

          30

          • #
            Tdef

            Tasmania has pumped water uphill since the early days. The Hydolro commission destroyed Shannon’s rise to do so. This was ecologically tragic. As a trout fishing spot even the then Crown Prince of Japan was a frequent visitor. Gone now. Pumped storage.

            40

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        There’s another as well, known as the Shoalhaven Scheme which comprises: “two hydro-power facilities, with total generating capacity of 240 megawatts (320,000 hp). The flexibility of the scheme is that it can operate as either a pump or a generator. During off peak periods, it utilises excess electricity from the grid to pump water back up to the reservoir(s) as pumped storage. The two power stations are: The Kangaroo Valley and Bendeela power stations (which) were completed in 1977 as a joint project between the Electricity Commission of New South Wales and the NSW Metropolitan Water Sewerage and Drainage Board. Management has subsequently been passed from those bodies to Eraring Energy and the Sydney Catchment Authority.”

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoalhaven_Scheme

        40

    • #
      Hanrahan

      I think I can answer my own question, at least partly. The generation will be in the north, Kareeya, Barron Gorge and Koombaloomba Dam. The pumped hydro is in the south, at Splityard Creek (near Wivenhoe Dam).

      20

    • #
      David Maddison

      For those interested I wrote an article on pumped hydroelectric storage in the January 2017 Silicon Chip magazine.

      http://www.siliconchip.com.au/Issue/2017/January/Pumped+Storage+Hydroelectricity?res=nonflash

      At that time there were three established schemes in Australia.

      Tumut 3 in the Snowy Mountains has the greatest power generating capacity with up to 1800MW output, followed by Wivenhoe in Queensland with 500MW and the Shoalhaven scheme in NSW with 250MW maximum output.

      Note that these were and are properly engineered economically viable schemes built decades before any “renewable” madness.

      101

      • #
        Hanrahan

        In the eighties there was a proposal to add pumped storage to the Kareeya power station [about 300 M head] but the greens would never allow any trees to be killed for the tail-race dam.

        Proponents of coal should welcome pumped storage because it allows coal fired boilers to operate a little more in the set & forget base load mode. Once built they would have 100+ years life [many times that of a bird killer] so we should be willing to look past the capital cost, at least a little. It’s beyond my pay grade to judge but Turnbull’s Snowy II should be given an honest appraisal.

        20

        • #
          robert rosicka

          I’ll give you an honest appraisal, if they’re using coal fired power to pump the water back uphill it’s not exactly green or economically viable .
          If they want more hydro why not build more dams I’m all for that and it helps with not only flood mitigation but gives water security for the big droughts that our country has seen in the past .

          60

          • #
            PeterS

            I tend to agree. Also water “batteries” are a nice idea in theory but in practice cost so much for so little benefit it would be better to build large dams in the first place to generate hydroelectric power continuously. Better still just build new generation coal fired power stations given we have more than enough coal to last us for a very long time, certainly long enough to allow a much better technology to come along and replace them. After all that’s what many other countries are doing and will continue to do for many decades to come, and doing so using OUR COAL! Why don’t we? Yes I know why we are not. We are stupid.

            40

            • #
              Hanrahan

              I beg to differ. Coal fired generators are most economical when run at 100% 24/7. The more wind/solar on the grid the less they can do that.

              Electrons are fungible, it matters not where they come from to pump the water uphill but if a pumped hydro allows a coal fired plant to run all night and then take up some of the load in the morning peak then all is good. Besides they improve grid stability, a growing problem.

              30

  • #
    scaper...

    Wivenhoe also has a turbine below its release valve that operates 24/7. From memory it produces enough electricity to power 24,000 homes.

    Wivenhoe releases water to feed the water treatment plant at Mt Crosby. I kayak downstream often. A beautiful place that is serene. Less than an hours drive from the Brisbane CBD. Another world.

    60

    • #
      scaper...

      And I will add it has great swimming spots, no sharks but huge lung fish. Heaps of turtles and bird life, Callistemons (Bottle Brushes) that are at least a century old, bent over due to the many floods and debris in trees over thirty metres above the normal river level. My favorite spot there would be Savages Crossing.

      60

      • #
        Hanrahan

        Is that the lung fish the Mary R. [Rockhampton] is famous for?

        30

        • #
          scaper...

          Yes. Apparently they were introduced into the Brisbane River in the late nineteenth century. I’ve seen them over two metres long there.

          40

          • #
            Hanrahan

            The evolutionary advantage for a lung fish must be it’s ability to breath atmospheric air, thus it can live in hot, O2 depleted pools. The pretty rainbow fish which is endemic in all warm fresh water rivers is similar. It is known to be the only fish still swimming in an aquarium with a runaway heater.

            31

            • #
              Glen Michel

              They have been seen,occasionally lying on the banks of the Mary rolling up a smoke.Strange creature is Ceratodus.

              00

        • #
          Chris in Hervey Bay

          Maryborough is on the Mary River and Rockhampton is on the Fitzroy

          20

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  • #
    pat

    nuclear advocate Shellenberger gets it right about the MSM:

    23 Apr: Forbes: If Solar And Wind Are So Cheap, Why Are They Making Electricity So Expensive?
    by Michael Shellenberger, President of Environmental Progress
    Over the last year, the media have published story after story after story about the declining price of solar panels and wind turbines.
    People who read these stories are understandably left with the impression that the more solar and wind energy we produce, the lower electricity prices will become.
    And yet that’s not what’s happening. In fact, it’s the opposite…

    Electricity prices increased by:
    •51 percent in Germany during its expansion of solar and wind energy from 2006 to 2016;
    •24 percent in California during its solar energy build-out from 2011 to 2017;
    •over 100 percent in Denmark since 1995 when it began deploying renewables (mostly wind) in earnest…

    One hypothesis might be that while electricity from solar and wind became cheaper, other energy sources like coal, nuclear, and natural gas became more expensive, eliminating any savings, and raising the overall price of electricity.
    But, again, that’s not what happened…ETC

    By reporting on the declining costs of solar panels and wind turbines but not on how they increase electricity prices, journalists are — intentionally or unintentionally — misleading policymakers and the public about those two technologies…

    The Los Angeles Times last year reported that California’s electricity prices were rising, but failed to connect the price rise to renewables, provoking a sharp rebuttal from UC Berkeley economist James Bushnell.
    “The story of how California’s electric system got to its current state is a long and gory one,” Bushnell wrote, but “the dominant policy driver in the electricity sector has unquestionably been a focus on developing renewable sources of electricity generation.”

    Part of the problem is that many reporters don’t understand electricity. They think of electricity as a commodity when it is, in fact, a service — like eating at a restaurant.

    The price we pay for the luxury of eating out isn’t just the cost of the ingredients most of which which, like solar panels and wind turbines, have declined for decades.

    Rather, the price of services like eating out and electricity reflect the cost not only of a few ingredients but also their preparation and delivery.
    This is a problem of bias, not just energy illiteracy. Normally skeptical journalists routinely give renewables a pass. The reason isn’t because they don’t know how to report critically on energy — they do regularly when it comes to non-renewable energy sources — but rather because they don’t want to.

    That could — and should — change. Reporters have an obligation to report accurately and fairly on all issues they cover, especially ones as important as energy and the environment.
    A good start would be for them to investigate why, if solar and wind are so cheap, they are making electricity so expensive.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/04/23/if-solar-and-wind-are-so-cheap-why-are-they-making-electricity-more-expensive/#795560081dc6

    60

  • #
    pat

    24 Apr: Reason Blog: Global Warming Likely to Be 30 to 45 Percent Lower Than Climate Models Project
    A new study in the Journal of Climate compares global temperature data trends since 1850 with model outputs.
    by Ronald Bailey
    But a new study in the Journal of Climate (LINK) suggests that the IPCC’s estimates are much too high. In calculating their rival figures, authors Nicholas Lewis and Judith Curry take into account historical atmospheric and ocean temperature trends since the mid-19th century. Their estimates also draw on new findings since 1990 of how atmospheric ozone and aerosols are likely to affect global temperature trends. (They also address other researchers’ concerns about an earlier ECS study that they published in 2015.)

    “Our results imply that, for any future emissions scenario, future warming is likely to be substantially lower than the central computer model-simulated level projected by the IPCC, and highly unlikely to exceed that level,” Lewis says in a press release from the Global Warming Policy Forum (LINK).

    How much lower? Their median ECS estimate of 1.66°C (5–95% uncertainty range: 1.15–2.7°C) is derived using globally complete temperature data. The comparable estimate for 31 current generation computer climate simulation models cited by the IPCC is 3.1°C. In other words, the models are running almost two times hotter than the analysis of historical data suggests that future temperatures will be.

    In addition, the high-end estimate of Lewis and Curry’s uncertainty range is 1.8°C below the IPCC’s high-end estimate.

    Lewis and Curry’s estimates are in line with the similarly low estimates reported by climatologists Thorsten Mauritsen of the Max Planck Institute for Meteorology and Robert Pincus of the University of Colorado in the July 2017 issue of Nature Climate Change. Using historical temperature data, those two researchers calculated an ECS of 1.5°C (0.9–3.6°C, 5th–95th percentile).
    If these two studies turn out to be right, that will be good news for humanity.
    https://reason.com/blog/2018/04/24/global-warming-likely-to-be-30-to-45-per

    60

  • #
    pat

    24 Apr: GWPF Press Release: New Data Imply Slower Global Warming
    https://mailchi.mp/thegwpf/press-release-new-data-imply-slower-global-warming?e=3acdae4011

    23 Apr: Journal of Climate: The impact of recent forcing and ocean heat uptake data on estimates of climate sensitivity
    by Nicholas Lewis and Judith Curry
    https://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/10.1175/JCLI-D-17-0667.1

    24 Apr: UK Express: Climate change is ‘not as bad as we thought’ say scientists
    CLIMATE change is likely to be markedly less severe than forecast, a study claimed yesterday.
    By John Ingham
    But the study emerged as other scientists said winter waves pounding the Scottish and Irish coasts have grown by up to 5ft 6in over the past 70 years.
    Rising sea levels and more intense storms are in line with global warming forecasts.

    The study questioning the future intensity was based on analysing the warming effect of greenhouse gases and other drivers from the mid 9th century…

    The study in the Journal of Climate predicts rises of 1.66C compared to one IPCC forecast of 3.1C and 1.33C compared to another study predicting 1.9C.
    Nicholas Lewis, one of the author, said “future warming is likely to be substantially lower than the central computer model-simulated level projected.” …

    However, scientists at Plymouth University said average winter wave heights along the Atlantic coast of Western Europe have been rising for seven decades.
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/950748/climate-change-scientists-impact-not-as-bad-on-planet

    40

    • #
      el gordo

      Lewis and Curry, a lukewarm combo expose massive model failure.

      30

      • #
        Dennis

        Built in warming trend – see hacked emails released just before the UN IPCC Copenhagen Conference.

        Plotters examining creative accounting of trends and discussing tactics, including what would the people do to us if we are caught.

        30

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Any computer gurus out there that can tell me what speed the internet from NBN wireless tower should be .

    10

    • #
      yarpos

      Hi Robert

      Not sure if I have guru status , but will attempt to answer.

      If you are in an area that is deemed ready for service in NBN speak, you will normally be offered either a 12Mbps service or a 25Mbps service.

      There are a lot of variables that will determine the speed you will actually observe at your device, these include:

      distance to the NBN tower
      any obstructions along the path (trees)
      quality of your home network and equipment, mostly around your wifi set up.

      We have a 25Mbps service, the best we ever see is about 22Mbps download and 4Mbps upload and typically its more like a 20/2 service even though its labelled a 25/5 service. Its a lot like the nameplate on a solar panel, you never actually get what the label says.

      We have found it very stable and reliable compared with our old ADSL service.

      30

      • #
        robert rosicka

        Thanks for that I just did a speed test before and it’s better than usual by a country mile , we are about a Kay from the tower and trees are a factor but when first hooked up speeds were great but as they’ve added more connections it’s dropped to the point where most days I can’t even load the speed test .

        https://telstra-nbn.speedtestcustom.com/result/2a54fef0-485a-11e8-b87c-45d9a2428e23

        30

        • #
          robert rosicka

          Should have checked with the ABC , although my area is not mentioned we are regularly below the 3 Mbps.

          10

        • #
          yarpos

          Happily we dont have that level of variation, and use a variety of streaming services with excellent results. About all you can do is keep complaining on a regular basis to your service provider, especially if you can send them the speedtest results. In the end they are the ones that have the relationship with the NBN.

          30

          • #
            robert rosicka

            Thanks Yarpos that’s basically what I’m thinking to do , should have kept the ADSL it was much quicker and reliable .

            10

            • #
              Hanrahan

              I was getting good ADSL results, consistently 10+ M. Recently changed to NBN and it’s hopeless and so is Optus. The Indian I ended up talking to was unintelligible. If they are going to use OS call centres, why not the Philippines?

              Life is too short to spend it on the phone.

              10

              • #
                yarpos

                There are a few local ISPs with local points of contact. I think Aussie Broadband and Southern have that. I use Boom Broadband which is a small ISP in Melbourne.

                Another option is to use a mobile connection if you are in a 4G area. It will give you a pretty good connection for general use. We use it all lot when travelling, but no good at home as we are 3G.

                00

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      Just ran your speedtest Robert.

      I get 3.5 mbps download and 0.3 upload.

      Telstra.

      Subiaco. Perth. Western Australia. 21.14 hours.25 April 2018 (Anzac day). ADSL.

      What can you say?

      20

      • #
        Chad

        Be aware…
        I have never had consistent , repearable results from the Telstra speed test. To me , its more like a random number generator.
        Check with some of the many other speed tests available

        10

  • #
    pat

    behind paywall – nothing else online so far:

    24 Apr: Carbon Pulse: China puts the brakes on solar power expansion
    After years of rapid expansion, China is slamming the brakes on solar power capacity growth this year to shift its focus onto quality control and cost reduction, senior energy officials said Tuesday, signalling a bump in the road in the country’s efforts to wean itself off fossil fuels.

    23 Apr: BillingsGazette: Larry Mayer: Billings (finally) breaks the snowfall record
    The measuring station at Billings Logan International Airport recorded 2.6 inches by 1 p.m., bringing the yearly total to 106.1 inches…
    http://billingsgazette.com/news/local/billings-finally-breaks-the-snowfall-record/article_a7ee5f31-546a-5d85-9183-0078e50cc222.html

    24 Apr: Michigan Live: Michigan still almost 40 percent covered in snow, and it’s almost May
    By Mark Torregrossa
    After a fully wintry three weeks in April, Michigan still has a significant amount of land covered in snow. One area still has almost three feet of snow on the ground…

    Areas around Munising, MI are still reporting 32 inches of snow on the ground. In fact, last week some parts of the U.P. where reporting the highest snow cover amounts of the entire winter. That’s a tough feat- having the most snow on the ground in mid-April. Grand Marais has 30 inches of snow cover. Marquette still has 20 inches, and Gaylord has 11 inches of snow cover…

    The U.S. still has nine percent of the land covered with snow. This is the most snow this late back to 2013…
    http://www.mlive.com/weather/index.ssf/2018/04/michigan_still_almost_40_perce.html

    40

  • #
    Peter

    I thought this was an interesting article to share
    I don’t know if what I have done with this link will work.
    Not good with computers.

    https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/the-un-admits-that-the-paris-climate-deal-was-a-fraud/

    10

  • #
    Edwina

    I watched a recent “Landline” on ABC where some grape farmers were concerned climate change was causing grapes to ripen too early-a week at least. that is compared to old records kept by previous generations. This would somehow affect the wine making industry. They never thought it may be due to better varieties and practices.

    Anyway, some were saying they would buy land in Tasmania since it would be cooler in the short to mid term. However, they must think Victoria is the northern limit to grape and wine making.

    Yet grape and wine making is everywhere in the Granite Belt around Stanthorpe about 10 degrees north albeit in a cool region. But grapes and wine abound in the Burnett region near Bundaberg according to the latest “Road Ahead” RACQ magazine. This area would be far warmer than Victoria.

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    • #
      Peter C

      Agree Edwina,

      Total BS.

      Victorian Grape growers figured prominently in a recent 4 Corners program on Climate Change which is currently the subject of a complaint for its evident bias.
      http://jennifermarohasy.com/2018/03/complaint-lodged-four-corners-weather-alert/

      70

    • #
      yarpos

      Last year we went up to Port Macquarie for holidays and the area had quite a few quite successful wineries. Right now I am sitting in Mildura , an area not renowned for its coolness, which produces 21% of Australia’s wine crush (Tassie btw 1%). If a few people want to expand into cool climate varieties thats great, but dressing it up in climate alarm is a bit desperate.

      60

      • #
        robert rosicka

        I’m sure some of the companies involved were not looking for handouts and as for the ABC does anyone expect any different .

        20

      • #
        Peter C

        Mildura Climate ensures that Grapes Ripen and achieve their full acidity.

        Very useful for the cool climate growers who might need to blend in a bit of Mildura wine to achieve their ends without adding additional acid (a big No No).

        30

        • #
          James

          Wrong. Warm climate results in grapes having high sugars, and low acids. Acid addition is a very permitted practice in Australian Winemaking. Australian wineries buy tartaric acid by the ton. Acid addition is not permitted in many European countries.

          Chapitalizing with cane sugar is not permitted in Australia. Chapitalizing with grape juice concentrate is permitted, but it is expensive, unless you operated near an Orange juice processing plant, and can send your own juice down to be concentrated.

          Acidity drops during the ripening processes. Some of the drop in acidity is due to the conversion of malic acid (which is a dicarboxylic acid) to lactic acid which is a mono carboxylic acid. Exposure of the bunches to sunlight favors this. Acids also drop due to dilution during the ripening process.

          In some parts of the world they pick grapes very green to save having to add acid. In that part of the world water addition is permitted into products up to 100 percent water addition. One of the growers told met that they pick some of the grapes so green that they can put more of Canandaigua lake into the bottle.

          Here is the appropriate food standard code:
          https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2014C00037

          20

    • #
      PeterS

      Blame everything on the mythical runaway global warming. Next they will be blaming colder temperatures on global warming. Woops, I just recalled they already do that. The ABC is full of fools. A rodent would have more intelligence than a pack of ABC presenters.

      40

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      As I have commented before the claim ignores all other factors. I know a local wine grower in the Adelaide Hills who started out believing Global Warming might be a problem and that he would need to buy land in Tasmania. He installed data loggers in the local vinyard and checked equivalent temperature profiles in Europe and found he was operating in a cooler environment than Bordeaux, and as far as summer was concerned in COOLER conditions than in Germany or Austria, and way cooler than Hungary.
      Just another ABC fact-free beat up.

      60

  • #
    Peter C

    Empirical Evidence on the Green House Theory.

    On the last Weekend Unthreaded Sophocles referred to this paper which he thought should be checked by replication;

    Journal of Earth Science & Climatic Change

    A Novel Investigation about the Thermal Behaviour of Gases under the Influence of IR-Radiation: A Further Argument against the Greenhouse Thesis Thomas Allmendinger* Independent Scholar, CH-8152 Glattbrugg/Zürich, Switzerland
    https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/a-novel-investigation-about-the-thermal-behaviour-of-gases-under-theinfluence-of-irradiation-a-further-argument-against-the-greenh-2157-7617-1000393.pdf

    His paper is interesting. If I have read it correctly he contends that the atmosphere is heated by incoming Solar radiation (even at ground level). Also no difference between O2, N2 and CO2 as far as the final equilibrium temperature.

    So I had a bit of a search back to see what has gone before.

    The starting point is Professor Robert Woods, physicist Johns Hopkins University, who conducted an experiment in 1909, which seemed to disprove the Green House Hypothesis.

    His experiment, using “Hot Boxes”, ie insulated boxes; used different lids; Glass which is like a greenhouse gas (ie lets light in and is opaque to outgoing IR and a sheet of NaCl crystal whish is apparently transparent to outgoing IR.

    Professor Nasif Nahle
    has confirmed the Woods experiment more recently;
    https://principia-scientific.org/publications/Experiment_on_Greenhouse_Effect.pdf

    However, another professor (Vaughan Pratt, Stanford) has supposedly come up with a different result
    http://clim.stanford.edu/WoodExpt/

    Unfortunately when I read the his page it seems that it may have been modified from its original publication.
    Firstly it is not the same as the reference given by Prof Nasif Nahle!
    Secondly he does not give his result,
    Thirdly He does not give any explanation nor a conclusion.

    However I did extract this from Prof Pratt;

    He says, referring to the Wood’s Paoer;

    It is also lacking in logic.
    The second paragraph commits the fallacy of false dichotomy by assuming that heat can only be lost in one way: either by convection or by radiation.

    My problem here is the logic of Professor Pratt.

    He says; “Heat can be lost in only ONE way and then he list two ways; convection and radiation,

    Then he fails to identify any third way by which radiation might be lost!

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      Peter C

      “Peter C
      Your comment is awaiting moderation.”

      Not sure why I am in moderation.

      I suspect it is because I have quoted Principia Scientific International, a denialist website that tries to refute the Green House Theory.

      I admit they have their faults. But I think that Professor Nasif Nahle’s paper is ok and should be available.

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      Chad

      Proff Murry Salby is worth taking the time to listen to for a detailed mathmatical and physical destruction of the CO2 theory..
      https://youtu.be/2ROw_cDKwc0

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      My problem here is the logic of Professor Pratt.–He says; “Heat can be lost in only ONE way and then he list two ways; convection and radiation,–Then he fails to identify any third way by which radiation might be lost!

      Peter C, Please try the easy way to get to higher than bb surface temperature; use the ideal gas law in a gravitational field for any mol of gas. PV = RT with R= 0.08206! Solve that for a temperature of 200 Kelvin and 10kPa, then redo for temperature at a ‘surface’ pressure of 101kPa. Capisce? All done (with no work) by Universal gravitational compression on every solar system body!
      All the best!-will-

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    pat

    25 Apr: Guardian: Foreign Office climate staff cut by 25% under Boris Johnson
    Exclusive: The prime minister says the UK leads the world on climate action, but Foreign Office officials dedicated to the issue have plunged since 2016
    by Damian Carrington
    Johnson has also failed to mention climate change in any official speech since he took the office, in marked contrast to his two predecessors…

    “It is extremely disappointing,” said Prof Sir David King, who was the foreign secretary’s special envoy for climate change from September 2013 until March 2017.
    “Yes, we have the Paris agreement, but everybody knows the difference between what the agreement says – if possible no more than 1.5C rise – and what countries have promised is enormous,” he said. “There is a very big amount of work to be done. Other countries have had an enormous amount of respect for what Britain has delivered. If you then cut back the British effort then of course there is a real danger that the focus drifts away.”…

    …FoI documents show that the number of officials working full time on climate change fell from 72 to 55 between early 2016 and 2018…

    However, Johnson has yet to mention climate change in an official speech. His predecessors as foreign secretary made strong speeches on global warming, with Philip Hammond saying at a 2015 event in Washington DC…BLAH BLAH

    In 2011, William Hague said…BLAH BLAH

    In a newspaper column in 2015, the hottest December ever recorded, Johnson cited climate change sceptic Piers Corbyn as saying “the whole global warming theory is unsound, to say the least”. …
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/apr/25/foreign-office-climate-staff-cut-by-25-under-boris-johnson

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    pat

    ***onshore wind and solar power – the “cleanest and cheapest energy sources”.
    how does the MSM get away with it?
    and why don’t they write stories for the hundreds of days of the year Britain doesn’t power on without coal?
    or about the 365 days it doesn’t power on without fossil fuels?

    24 Apr: BBC: Britain powers on without coal for three days
    The new record comes just days after the last record of 55 hours was set, National Grid said.
    The coal-free period began on Saturday at 1000 BST and has continued into Tuesday afternoon.
    Power generated from wind and gas dominated the mix of energy for users in England, Scotland and Wales…
    In April, 2017 Britain went its first full day without coal since the 19th century…

    However, experts warned that power generated by coal was largely being replaced by gas, another fossil fuel, rather than renewable sources.
    Andrew Crossland, of the Durham Energy Institute, said gas generated 40% of the UK’s electricity and fuelled the vast majority of domestic heating: “As a country we consume nearly eight times more gas than coal.”
    The daily consumption of gas was outstripped by wind on just two days last year, while all sources of renewable energy – including wind, solar, biomass and hydropower – beat fossil fuels for just 23 days of 2017.
    A reliance on gas made the UK vulnerable to the whims of international markets and was “nowhere near clean enough” to meet the UK’s legal targets to cut greenhouse gas emissions, Mr Crossland said…

    Hannah Martin, from Greenpeace UK, called on the government to provide more support for onshore wind and solar power – ***the “cleanest and cheapest energy sources”.
    “Offshore wind has proven to be popular and able to provide affordable clean energy, as well as skilled jobs and fair bills,” she said…

    “As we have more and more days without coal, we need to make sure it is replaced with the renewable technologies of the future.”
    Mr Crossland also called for more investment in renewable technologies, such as solar panels and batteries, to store power for homes and businesses, along with better energy efficiency to reduce power use.
    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43879564

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    pat

    no-one is more threatening than the CAGW zealots:

    25 Apr: Guardian: BP chief urges Cambridge University to keep fossil fuel investments
    Bob Dudley faces criticism for calling for university to ‘come to its senses’ over divestment
    by Adam Vaughan
    BP’s chief executive has come under fire from campaigners after he urged Cambridge University not to drop its fossil fuel investments.
    Bob Dudley was greeted with laughter when he told an industry conference on Tuesday: “We donate and do lots of research at Cambridge so I hope they come to their senses on this.”…

    Cambridge Zero Carbon Society, which is lobbying the university to ditch its estimated £377m investment in fossil fuels, said: “BP’s mask slipped to reveal the ugliness lying beneath.
    “Mr Dudley’s outrageous ***threat is just another sign of an industry desperately clinging on to power, knowing its only chance for survival is to subvert democracy at universities like Cambridge and leech off their reputation.”…
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/apr/24/bp-bob-dudley-urges-cambridge-university-keep-fossil-fuel-investments

    BP chief in spat over Cambridge funding for fossil fuel investment
    Financial Times-18 hours ago
    Bob Dudley has been accused of issuing an “outrageous threat” after the BP chief executive called on Cambridge university’s £6.3bn endowment fund to “come to their senses” and remain invested in fossil fuels…
    BP said it was a light-hearted, off-the-cuff comment during a question-and-answer session, and “absolutely not a threat”, an interpretation endorsed on social media by some people at the conference…

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      Peter C

      “Mr Dudley’s outrageous ***threat

      That dose not sound outrageous to me. BP should fund academic activity helpful to the oil and gas industry, not the ones that oppose it.

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    pat

    Georgetown Uni’s The Hoya:

    25 Apr: The Hoya: Former Vice President Al Gore Expresses Optimism for Reversing Climate Change
    by Deepika Jonnalagadda
    The United States is at the brink of a widespread environmental revolution, former Vice President and environmental advocate Al Gore said at an event Monday afternoon in Gaston Hall.

    The event featured an introduction by University President John J. DeGioia who discussed the university’s efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and educate students on complex global challenges. DeGioia cited educational programs, such as the Core Pathways project, an interdisciplinary collection of courses offered to students, as examples of ongoing initiatives at Georgetown to address climate change. Core Pathways and the Designing the Future(s) of the University Initiative cohosted the event.

    Expansive developments in renewable energy sources and storage are akin to an environmental transformation, Gore said.
    “We are now in the beginning stages of a global sustainability revolution,” Gore said. “It has the magnitude of the industrial revolution but the speed of the digital revolution.”…

    “It’s powered by new digital tools like the Internet of Things and machine learning and artificial intelligence that are giving CEOs and executive teams the ability to manage electrons and atoms and molecules with the same precision the IT companies have used in managing bits of information,” Gore said….

    Gore’s optimism for combatting environmental change stems from the fact that investments in renewable sources of energy are outperforming those in fossil fuels, he said.
    “The bankers and investors are now saying grid parity is here. Grid parity is the line below which unsubsidized renewable electricity, particularly solar, is cheaper than electricity made from burning fossil fuels,” Gore said. “Since 2010, global investments in renewable energy have exceeded investments in fossil.”
    The trend has shifted away from nonrenewable resources, according to Gore, specifically noting that coal use is declining…

    Despite concerns that President Trump’s administration will dismantle environmental programs, Gore assured that the environmental actions spearheaded by local governments and businesses will allow for sustained environmental change…

    While Gore expressed optimism for the reversal of climate change in the future, he stressed the importance of remaining active, and not complacent, on the issue, calling the risks that climate change poses as the most pressing challenge of this generation. Gore underlined the growing issues associated with rising temperatures and extreme weather changes, particularly the fires, which serve as evidence of climate change…
    Gore addressed the underlying impact of climate change on civil unrest around the world…

    “If you are concerned about the climate crisis and you want to play a part in solving it, the single most meaningful thing you can do is to vote, participate, advocate for candidates whose positions reflect your values,” Gore said. “It’s important to change the light bulbs, the windows and the technology and it’s important to change the laws and the policies.”
    http://www.thehoya.com/former-vice-president-al-gore-expresses-optimism-reversing-climate-change/

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      RickWill

      It is absurd that Al Gore still gets comments published. His dire predictions have proven foolish.

      Although he has managed to part many gullible people from their money.

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        Hanrahan

        There are whispers that he might run for the big job in 2020. Not absurd when you look at other possible dem candidates.

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          Mary E

          If Gore runs we’ll get Trump again. Gore’s worse than Hillary. Haven’t these Dems figured out that putting a bad candidate out there is not a good strategy?

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    Ian1946

    Yet another cringe worthy article from renew economy they seem to miss the point that rooftop solar does not produce anything at night. The comments section show the people who support this site have no idea. Their own widget shows what happens if coal is removed from the grid.

    https://reneweconomy.com.au/households-can-hold-grid-together-when-big-coal-units-fail-69737/

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      Hanrahan

      Their precious bird killers are only generating 500 MW in total ATM, excluding Tas and WA. Been poor for days. If you can’t meet basic demand how can you charge your batteries?

      SA’s price has been fluctuating between +$14,000 and -$1,000 this afternoon.

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      RickWill

      Just added my comment.

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        Hanrahan

        That Audrey Zibleman is a green democrat. Why can’t we find a local engineer for that job?

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        Hanrahan

        Audrey, and you, spoke of “uneconomic bypass”. Korea Zinc is installing 1 million solar panels. Oops there goes another rubber tree plant, to quote Frank Sinatra.

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    OriginalSteve

    Nice to see back burning happening again…common sense prevailing.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-26/canberra-burns-backlog-risks-eruptive-fire-behaviour/9694132?WT.ac=statenews_act

    “ACT authorities are working to get on top of a “growing backlog” of prescribed burns, following warnings in a confidential report about funding issues and the increased risk of “severe landscape fires” in the Canberra region.

    Emergency Services Agency (ESA) commissioner Dominic Lane played down the concerns contained in the ACT Bushfire Council’s latest preparedness report, which was handed to Minister Mick Gentleman last November but recently obtained by the ABC.

    The council reported that over the past four years only 45 per cent of the area planned for prescribed burning — amounting to 13,009 hectares — had been achieved “due to lack of suitable weather conditions” when it was either too wet, too dry or too hot.

    “Council is extremely concerned at this growing backlog,” the report stated.”

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    Regarding the FBI text messages not yet provided to the Congressional oversight committees!
    Why do any txt messages need redacting in any manner? They are clear-text messages and cannot be classified in any way! They are not privileged US post.

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    Annie

    Hillman is a social scientist and was with the Policy Studies Institute? Riiight.
    It strikes me that far too many are on the climate panic bandwagon, not too few.

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