JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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They call it “demand management”. We call it “1000 small blackouts”. Sydney people paid to switch off.

Some people in Sydney will be paid to not use electricity in peak periods

Instead of a big blackout the plan now is to have lots of little “by choice” blackouts at the appliance level. It’s smarter than crashing the grid, but ponder what we’ve swapped –once electricity was cheap and “all the time” and now after this discount it will still be more expensive but also “not there when you need it”. Let’s all cheer for progress.

Cashing in for slightly less obscene electricity bills? How low is that bar on our expectations.

Sydney households to cash in for turning off appliances

Houses and business in some high-growth Sydney suburbs will be ­offered payments to dial down or switch off appliances during peak demand periods under a scheme being trialled by the state’s biggest distribution ­network.

Ausgrid is planning the demand management trial for up to 10 suburbs across the city — including Alexandria, Redfern, ­Auburn, Kingsford and Waterloo — over summer in a bid to reduce the peak load on its network.

It is expected to cost around $1.5 million in payments to households and business and to involve up to 1300 households that would agree to reduce demand at peak times and if successful it could become a permanent program and help Ausgrid defer the expense of major upgrade.

The payments would be linked to a commitment to reduce demand at peak times. “If they are not switched of at the peak, that becomes a problem for us,” he said.

If CO2 mattered, and renewables were useful, there would be some point to this pain.

Tell the kids: one day when I was young, we could switch on the heaters, the pool pump and the oven whenever we felt like it.If the discount becomes large presumably the poor will do without, but maybe some of the rich will use an iphone programmable thingy’s to put their aircon on while they are at work. Thus running the air con when they didn’t need it to store up a house-of-cold for when they get home in peak hour and swtich it off? Add another inefficiency to the system…

 

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149 comments to They call it “demand management”. We call it “1000 small blackouts”. Sydney people paid to switch off.

  • #
    Roger

    The UN’s plan to de-industrialise western civilisations and transfer wealth to rich people in poor countries begins to bear fruit !!

    Unreliable renewables are the key to this ‘Green Dream’ and the nightmare that faces everyone.

    As Maurice Strong said when explaining why he set up the IPCC and what it was to achieve
    “In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that .. the threat of global warming.. would fit the bill…. the real enemy, then, is humanity itself….we believe humanity requires a common motivation, namely a common adversary in order to realize world government. It does not matter if this common enemy is a real one or…. one invented for the purpose.” (Maurice Strong – speech to Club of Rome – and “invented” referred specifically to ‘Global Warming’)

    “Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn’t it our responsiblity to bring that about?”
    . and those encapsulate what lies behind and is the reason for ‘Global Warming / Climate Change’ .

    And as Ottmar Edenhofer, who co-chaired the U.N.’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) working group on Mitigation of Climate Change from 2008 to 2015 stated:

    “One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with the environmental policy anymore, with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole …… We redistribute de facto the world’s wealth by climate policy ……….. the next world climate summit in Cancun is actually an economy summit during which the distribution of the world’s resources will be negotiated. “

    As they make clear – this has nothing to do with Global Warming (which was Strong and the UN’s deliberate invention) and everything about creating an unelected world government through the fear of ‘climate change’ and using it to de-industrialise civilisation and redistribute that wealth to rich people in poor countries!

    Christiana Figueres, executive secretary of U.N.’s Framework Convention on Climate Change:
    “This is the first time in the history of mankind that we are setting ourselves the task of intentionally, within a defined period of time, to change the economic development model that has been reigning for at least 150 years, since the Industrial Revolution ”

    That must be taken in the context of Strong’s statements quoted above and the intent to de-industrialise which means a return to lifestyles of the 15th and 16th centuries

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    • #
      joseph

      “which means a return to lifestyles of the 15th and 16th centuries”

      But with mobile phones . . . . . .

      180

      • #
        Ted O'Brien.

        Which need charging.

        230

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Walking down to feed the horses this morning, I’m chatting with my rather bright 11 year old daughter and explaining how China builds our generating capacity every day and how we export a lot of our coal to china, but how the pollies have decided we need to introduce power shortages to suit a very strange agenda in politics ( you can only say so much to 11 year olds about politics…..).

          What floored me was this , she thought for a moment and turned around and said ………… “Dad, take this from a kid – the politicians are stuipid. Why are they trying to kill our country?”

          Now if a 11 year old can get it, politicans have ZERO excuse for not getting it.

          Food for thought….

          380

          • #
            Dennis

            The politicians get it, they are in on it.

            180

          • #
            Sceptical Sam

            Perhaps you might gently tell your daughter that there are those in Australia who just don’t care.

            The green-left, frankly, don’t care. Neither do the politician who have no understanding of what it’s like to try an eke out an existence on an income seriously below the national median.

            And they are so stupid to think that a mere 1300 households (about 3,500 people) will save the Sydney power system from blackout?

            Perhaps government should consider reducing the Permanent Migration level from its 190,000 pa by that amount. That’d fix it!

            Just look at this:

            Alexandria, Redfern and Waterloo, comprise some of the most economically advantaged areas in Australia as a result of gentrification by the inner urban latte set over the past 20 years. Greenies all.

            Median Weekly Personal income, Alexandria (Pop 8,262) : $1,341

            Median Weekly Personal income, Redfern (Pop 13,213): $ 991

            Median Weekly Personal income, Waterloo (Pop 14,616): $786

            Median Weekly Personal income, Sydney: $664

            Median Weekly Personal income, Australia: $662

            Why are they getting paid to do what they claim everybody should do?

            Auburn and Kingsford? Well, they’re down the bottom of the of the economic disadvantage scale.

            Median Weekly Personal income, Auburn (Pop 37,366): $434

            Median Weekly Personal income, Kingsford (Pop 15,482): $479

            This proposal is a cynical exercise (experiment) to see if they can screw the poor for the benefit of the well-off.

            “We’ll pay you to be even more miserable than you currently are, so that our well-off customers don’t have to suffer the terrible heat if there’s a blackout in their area”.

            Reference.
            Search QuickStats:

            http://www.abs.gov.au/websitedbs/censushome.nsf/home/quickstats?opendocument&navpos=220

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            • #
              StephenP

              If it only applies to 1300 homes, then assuming that they are all having electric showers at 10kW and the oven and aircon running at a similar level, then is my calculation correct in that they will be cutting demand by 20*1300 kW which is 26000kW. Is this enough to prevent a blackout?

              30

              • #
                Sceptical Sam

                Assuming a retail price of 30 cents/kWh that amounts to $7,800 per hour.

                Now that’s a very cheap coal fired power station.

                No. It’s not about the money. It’s an experiment, as I said.

                The experiment is to see the difference in the “take-up” offer between “above median income districts” and “below median income districts”.

                You see, in India for example the poverty stricken were given a similar option. Except it was blood. The bottom of the heap could extend there survival by selling a pint of blood.

                That’s the principle of the hypothesis being tested here by Ausgrid. The poor in Auburn and Kingsford will sell their “discomfort” to improve their financial position, while the well-off in Redfern, Waterloo and Alexandria will not. They’ll be prepared to pay even more to keep their aircon going.

                Is there an Ethics Council for this sort of callous human experimentation?

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              • #
                Robber

                Stephen, that reduced demand is 26MW – that compares to peak demand in summer of about 30,000 MW. So it would be like blowing out a candle – not even detectable. But make it 130,000 homes and now you are up to 2600 MW, still less than 1% of demand, but probably greater than all the wind generation. Make no mistake, this is the start of electricity rationing, solely because of stupid government policies.

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            • #
              GreatAuntJanet

              Alexandria et al must be part of the ‘Inner Party’, whereas Auburn houses the ‘proles’ whose discomfort can be harvested for the benefit of the party of the first part.

              30

      • #
        Ve2

        And 1st class air travel to exotic locations for climate conferences.

        30

    • #
      Manfred

      We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality — Ayn Rand

      [Snip, email coming to you Manfred -J]

      So now in finest Rand-esque prescience Sydney-ites will be paid not to use power because there is an insufficiency brought about by policy, not by market demand to which a free market might respond.

      In fulfilment of the UN ‘Transformational’ Agenda article 28, “We commit to making fundamental changes in the way that our societies produce and consume goods and services…” this is what one Australian policy destination ordained by the lunatics that run the asylum really looks like. It’s no different across the Tasman.

      Just think. Were the global conglomeration of MSM to revert scrupulously to their traditional role as the Fourth Estate in a matter of days and weeks the who eco-Marxist edifice would topple, the infection of policy driven ideology would be extinguished from rational discourse. Governments would collapse, the UN would return to core business (peace and succour) and be significantly defunded, councils would be dismissed, commerce and trade would blossom, the EU would implode, power prices would dwindle, forest fires would diminish under rational management, innovation would flourish, the climate of fear would abate, the list goes on ad infinitum. Almost overnight virtue signalling, snow-flakery and faux-deniability would become idiosyncratic, perhaps even a strangely endearing fringe behaviour.

      Today, de-Greening would be a massive but enjoyable positive and liberating task and given the information portals and breadth of the medium, I imagine readily achievable.

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      • #

        + 100
        Quite so and it could be as simple as that.
        But it won’t happen unless control of the fourth estate is wrestled away from the NWO, the UN, the EU and the likes of George Soros.
        President Trump remains the world’s only hope after Abbott and Canada’s Harper of Canada were eliminated from the opposition.
        It’s easy to see the problem, resolving it or not will determine our future.

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  • #
    James

    So we will have those with solar panels on their rooves getting subsidized by those who cannot afford them, and those who cannot afford them will be allowing their power to be partially cut off so that those who destabilised the grid and receive subsidies can continue to have constant electricity. How wonderful is that.

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    • #
      toorightmate

      Socialism gone stark, raving mad.

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      • #
        Ted O'Brien.

        Payments? Commitment (without obligation) to reduce? Now they are getting real silly!

        Whatever happened to the off peak system?

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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        Socialism *is* mad…..it goes completely against humanity.

        Ironically, Marx was paid by the Elite to write his Manifesto, so they could engineer controlled struggle to produce a controlled outcome…….also known as a Helgian Dialectic.

        the Elite think iterms of decades or centuries to bring things about they desire, whereas your average punter thinks in terms of 1 day at atime mostly.

        Its not really a fair match….but with the advent of the Internet, its created a headache for the Elite. Australias Elites repsonse was to create the NBN – a single funnel to monitor and control all info. All the arguements about technology are pre-arranged fluff and moot – they are missing the point – Labors Conroy wanted internet filtering, later delivered by Liberals, and then the meta data collection. People get exicted about having higher internet speeds…a cage of gold is still a cage…idiots….

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    • #
      Graham Richards

      We are on a fast track to becoming another 3rd world basket case!
      South Africa , 25/30 years ago was producing 70% of all electricity on the African continent. Today they survive on what is known as “load shedding” whereby blackouts are scheduled area by area. In other words power is now rationed. Australia is allowing itself to be driven down the same path
      & our economy will slowly evaporate as the availability, reliability & sky high price cripples the country. All in the name of???
      The current PM & the other socialist mob are entirely responsible aided by the brainwashed electorate! Huge wake up call is not far off. Time to start modernising our ideas & resources OR ELSE!

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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        The solution is really really reallllllllllly simple. Endorsed by 97% of intelligent voters in fact…and not so inteligent ones too….

        Its called Democracy. ( a gasp from the audience….. )

        Yes, ladies & gents…..

        Democracy is where people who dont like what their elected members are doing, vote them out.

        And …drum roll……you dont vote for anyone who would also cause damage to the nation.

        So in simple terms it means you vote out Labor, Liberal / Nationals and Greens, and give govt to anyone else who might actuially not be a UN / CAGW shill.

        Simples.

        Now repeat 20 milllion times at next election.

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    • #
      clivehoskin

      Why do I get the feeling that we are heading for”Pichforks,Tar and Feathers and Piano Wire”time,just around the corner?

      00

    • #
      Ve2

      If there is a blackout the solar system shuts down or is isolated to prevent current flowing back through the mains system.

      00

  • #
    Leonard Lane

    The Greenies/Left really are unable to admit mistakes in promoting renewables and shutting down fossil power plants. This is a trial to see if selected homeowners and business can be made to live with rolling blackouts.
    However, this is just a feasibility study for smart meters whereby the utility provider can shut down any home, business, or industrial plant whenever they want to in preventing uncontrolled blackouts.
    Now wealthy and middle class homeowners will be able to buy home power generators to automatically startup when their power from the grid stops.
    It is truly a shame and a sin that the Greens and Left have no regard for the poor who cannot afford home generators. The poor will suffer blackouts without any way to prevent them. Any government that adopts unneeded, illogical, and cruel policies that punish the poor is a government that should be replaced by one that is more humane.

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    • #
      David Maddison

      With DRED technology (see my post below) it is things like air cons and pool pumps that are shut down. I can see it happening that houses will have a basic electricity supply for things like lights and computers and natural gas, petrol or diesel generators to power air cons and pool pumps during times of load shedding.

      Here’s an opportunity for entrepreneurs- make an autostart generator system that detects when DRED has shed your load then isolate it from the grid and connect it to the generator.

      This is becoming insane but it is one of the two strategies being used by the Left to destroy Western Civilisation.

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      • #
        RickWill

        It is cheaper to install solar panels and battery than an autostart diesel with mains switching to run things like aircons and pool pumps. In fact, in locations that offer low FIT, it is common to set pool pumps to run off a solar switch so the pump only runs when the sun shines. Doing that reduces demand on the battery.

        Air conditioner demand is certainly linked to sunshine so again a load well suited to solar power.

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        • #
          FarmerDoug2

          Hmm. Rick gets a couple red thumbs for being right. It’s madness that it is so but it often is.
          It’s madness that we even have to think about it. Coal can do it far cheaper.
          Doug

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        • #
          TomDickorHarry

          Where do you buy your solar equipment. It may be cheaper to buy panels and battery than to buy a generator, BUT it is cheaper to buy an adequately sized demand management diesel generator than to buy an adequately sized solar system to run your computers, fridge, lights, stove and so on.
          I live in an off grid community, with a solar system. Some neighbors did it cheap, and bought (quiet) generators. Also, ask South Australians about there new diesel generators to run the SA grid.

          80

          • #
            RickWill

            I get the lithium cells from Perth:
            http://www.evworks.com.au/calb-ca100
            16 of these make a 50V 5kWh battery. I do not have a BMS permanently connected but have balance wires and plugs in place so I can plug in a ballancer every six months or so for about a day to realign cells.

            Solar panels from Melbourne (pick up):
            http://www.lowenergydevelopments.com.au/index.php?route=product/product&path=25&product_id=122
            I can fit 4 of these panels in my hatchback with the back seat down. Never tried more than 4 in the car at once. I get the mounting hardware at the same place although I make my own clamping bolts because I do not like weakening roof trusses with coach screws.

            CM6048 solar chargers from Ebay or Aliexpress for around AUD80. These will handle 2kW of panels. I have 3kW of panels and two chargers. These have adjustable set points and are also load controllers so I set the cut-off and restart higher depending on the load criticality.

            I use 2500W pure sine wave inverters from Aliexpress. Current price is USD260. The highest I have run them continuously is 1500W but they have stated surge capacity to 5kW. At 1500W the cooling fan kicks in soon after the load hits.

            My off grid system runs fridge and freezer year around without any dependence on the grid.

            I used the off-grid solar system for water heating last year during summer instead of using gas. The saving was only $2 per day and only for 5 months of the year. By end of March it was not getting to full temperature with 4 of us in the house. We are back to two now so it might hang in later the year. I can switch to the electric heating if the ESSO problems at Hastings worsen.

            I do not run any air-conditioning off-grid at present as the house has central gas heating and central evaporative cooling but I am working toward reverse cycle air-conditioning to replace these dated systems. I have the battery and solar capacity to easily run up to a 5kW air-conditioner. I would set the load controller supplying an air conditioner to only use the top end of the battery. Most of the time the drain from the battery would be small because the solar panels would be suppling the air-conditioner from the charger/load controller thereby bypassing the battery. The battery just provides the buffered voltage.

            I have 1kW of off-grid panels tilted to the west that give reasonably output till 7pm mid summer.

            The great advantage of solar over a generator is eliminating the need to refuel. That would be a tedious task for me. I even have a battery mower that avoids the need to handle petrol.

            20

            • #
              robert rosicka

              Sounds like you’ve gone into it with heaps of research Rick , if we end up selling and buying a few acres on a river somewhere I will be digging this post up but we will be off grid .

              00

            • #
              Graeme#4

              Couple of questions have been meaning to ask you Rick:
              1. What lifetime do you expect to achieve from your solar panels?
              2. How would you determine this lifetime? As a point where panel efficiency falls to say 50%, or some other criteria?

              00

            • #
              Chad

              Rick, you have a 3kw “off grid” £solar system,
              But do you still have grid supply available ?
              I do not see how you could live comfortably with just a 3kW system and a 5kWh storage battery without either suplimentary grid power, gas heating cooking etc, or a much modified life style to any normal household. !
              Most housholds have peak usage periods outside Solar generating hours hence relying on stored power for a large % of daily usage
              With a typical daily usage of 15-20 kWh , those peaks would require 8-10kWh alone of stored power…..and obviously enough solar power to recharge again.

              00

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          RickWill:

          I think you would run down that battery’s capacity to start an air conditioner. Their initial startup can draw quite a bit, and you would lose through the conversion and the inverter.

          60

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            Seems you’d need a decent size battery bank 7 kW and decent ( 5kw minimum ) solar capacity to handle a 2KW air con load.

            Not impossible, but rather use old school batteries than lithium ( i.e. incendary devices ) for that sort of surge capacity ….

            50

            • #
              Power Grab

              Speaking of incendiary devices, the exchange on the following link caught my eye because of (1) the many stories of lithium-battery-powered devices exploding and (2) the stories of house fires becoming 30% more numerous in at least one metropolitan area once smart meters were installed there. Here is the link:

              https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16853

              You really ought to watch the video that the OP linked to. I was really weird to see all the trees and bushes that had stayed green while the houses were reduced to ashes.

              Any thoughts?

              00

          • #
            RickWill

            I do not run air-conditioner at present but I could handle a modern 5kW inverter air-conditioner selected for its energy rating so maximum demand is around 1500W. My preference is to use smaller units and run them when an area is occupied.

            I use 2500W DC/AC inverters that have surge of 5kW. I have two at present and they are relatively low cost at USD260.

            Air conditioning demand is reasonably well linked to sunshine where I live. Maybe as far north as Brisbane the sun is the most significant factor on demand. In the tropics on the coast the need to dehumidify may be a driving factor and that is not linked to direct sunshine.

            30

        • #
          robert rosicka

          Ouch ! Looks like they have anti coal mentality and we have anti solar .

          00

      • #
        RobK

        I am reminded of a scene in the movie “Toy Story” where the heros Buzz Lightyear and Woody are catapulted into the air. Woody says: “Wow, we’re flying.”
        Buzz replies:
        “This is not flying, this is falling with style”.

        Similarly, green hopefuls might say:”Wow we’ve got renewable grid power.” No, this not renewable power this is a rolling blackout without style.”

        120

    • #
      Robber

      Next step will be to ban home generators. Perhaps I will have to resort to keeping my car running and getting 1 kW to run the kettle.

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      • #
        Annie

        Don’t give our watermelons ideas.

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      • #
        Ted O'Brien.

        Existing environmental legislation would shut down widespread use of home generators. Which would in any case be subject to the RET tax.

        Then there’s the price of the fuel, and fuel taxes.

        90

        • #
          bobl

          Nope, home generators aren’t subject to the RET. RET only applies to energy exchange between different consumers, this is why some smart businesses generate their own power in order to opt out.

          Fuel Tax DOESN’T apply because generators don’t use the road, you can apply for the fuel tax rebate for fuel used for this purpose.

          Price of fuel applies but that is already less than buying electricity (MJ for MJ) indeed it’s probably cheaper to power your house entirely with your natural gas connection and a gas fired reciprocating generator (or microturbine) than it is to use grid electricity. You can even exploit the waste heat for water or space heating (Cogeneration sometimes known as CHP – Combined Heat & Power). People in SA and WA should take particular note of this since gas connections are widespread.

          80

          • #
            Ted O’Brien.

            Only while the quantity is insignificant. As soon as it became established, all taxes would be applied.

            20

          • #
            Graeme#4

            WA being isolated from the shenanigans going on in the other side, and currently blessed with a good supply of cheap electricity and coal, hopefully won’t have to worry about this for a while. That is, until the new Labour government decides to increase renewables. Very quiet about this for the moment.

            20

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        They can try banning home gennies…..people will just ignore them.

        50

        • #
          Glen Michel

          Well I have both petrol and diesel generators that I can rely on. Both are sufficient for high loads- especially the diesel.What I really worry about is security of fuel supplies as we- as a nation no longer refine our crude energy.We have lost that capacity and that is very serious.

          70

          • #
            AndyG55

            Do they still drill for oil in Bass Strait?

            Or does all that just disappear over seas?

            30

          • #
            rk

            Glen,
            It is important that you should be worried because oil is this nation’s No.1 problem which goes totally unrecognized. We have four small ageing refineries and import 910 thousand barrels a day for a total 1,180,000 barrels per day consumption. Over 40% of our diesel and jet fuel comes from South Korean and Japanese refineries with sea lanes that could easily be interrupted by various circumstances. The Middle East has far less oil than commonly published, in fact, Saudi Arabia’s 58 producing fields have less then 31 billion barrels left not the 260 billion they claim. I can state this because of the data I have from the 1046 Giant Oil and Gas Fields of the World that comes from the library of the American Association of Petroleum Geologists in Houston and was given to me by a US Petroleum geologist, Art Berman who has been in the industry for 36 years.

            Turnbull, Shorten and those in Canberra are oblivious to this and yet they forge ahead with Diesel powered submarines, new airports for Sydney, massive road works and no thought for an economy that can’t exist with out liquid fuels. Over a trillion dollars has not been spent by the oil industry in the last two years for capital expenditure because of the low oil price and that will bring big problems by probably 2020. All the world oilfields are depleting by around 5.7% p.a. on average so this problem is not far off. Electricity won’t be our biggest problem before too long.

            60

      • #
        sophocles

        Next step will be to ban home generators.

        … only Fossil Fuel powered ones. I don’t think they’re sufficiently silly to suggest electrically powered ones, but you just never know. However, bicycle-powered, treadmill powered or even wind powered will pass scrutiny. Only the FF ones pass the sanity test, sorta.

        I would love to go nuclear but I’m stuck with two minor problems with that:
        1. Nuclear reactors of any sort are banned by NZ law (Expletive Deleted!)
        2. I’m insufficiently wealthy. (more Expletives Deleted.)

        10

  • #

    Encourage everyone you know to use electricity heavily till the grid comes down. It’s an expensive and wasteful measure to avert much greater expense and waste. The sort of thing you have to do in a war.

    Do it with a heavy heart, but do it. These demented neo-collectivists will have to be stopped sooner or later. So sooner.

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    • #
      robert rosicka

      I’ve commented before on this and reckon we should have an anti earth day where we switch everything on .
      If we can believe the AEMO late November might be good .

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      • #

        Coordination may be a touch leftist. Those who can afford higher bills should use electricity as freely as they please when they please, not to be selfish but wear down the globalists and their stooge media. It’s about showing vulnerabilities now to avoid dire energy poverty in the future.

        The goal is to use our superb coal, gas and uranium resources to end energy poverty. Renewables suck and Sustainable Development is just a re-run of the dreary collectivism we spent the last century fighting. This is already apparent to most beyond ABC Land and GetUp World. We just need to hurry things along.

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      • #
        Binny

        Not anti-earth just pro living standards, thanks to technology.

        211

      • #
        el gordo

        Civil disobedience is the best way ahead, we want a major blackout and we want it now.

        Unfortunately a cool wet summer it now expected on the eastern seaboard, so there is little likelihood of blackouts.

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        • #
          Robber

          AEMO is still forecasting reserve shortfalls for SA and VIC of order 1000 MW Nov 21-23. Must be some scheduled outages?

          120

        • #
          destroyer D69

          If enough people co-operate the grid can be overloaded at any decided time.Co-ordinated loading and unloading of the system would surely unstabilise it sufficiently to cause load shedding.

          10

      • #
        RickWill

        Why is it an anti earth day?? Humans burning fossil fuel is simply restoring the CO2 level to where plant life thrives rather than having to survive at subsistence levels of CO2 where forests have turned to grassland and grassland to deserts. Increasing CO2 is a major factor in global reforestation.

        A better term for a day when everyone cranks up carbon output would be pro life.

        Join us in appreciating the importance of CO2 to life on earth on pro life day by using as much carbon based energy as you can.

        On the other hand there are one or two here who have an opinion that humans are not contributing to an increase in CO2 by burning carbon based fossils. Their day might be “end the madness”.

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      • #
        William

        Robert, Tim Blair (who runs a fantastic blog and I recommend it to all) has an annual Hour of Power celebration to counter the ridiculous Earth Hour. Tim’s readership is international, and he posts photos of many of his readers showing how they have celebrated the Hour of Power.

        111

      • #
        LevelGaze

        In Melbourne we have that!

        Once a year there is a “Night of Light” – or something like that – where the whole city centre is lit up from Dusk to Dawn. People love it.

        It comes a short time after “Earth Hour” when we are exhorted to switch off everything for a full 60 minutes, or we’ll all die.

        Who says Victorians don’t have a sense of humour?

        50

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      No, because that won’t bring it on soon enough.

      Start by making sure that all load shedding is loudly publicised.

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    • #
      destroyer D69

      Cycle everything on and then off at 15/20 minute intervals starting on the hour of greatest demand. only then will they get the message that the little guy CAN fight back as the system struggles to cope with the demand surges.

      10

  • #
    KinkyKeith

    As was clearly demonstrated in Newcastle in the most recent state elections, the whole point of “getting into government” is not to serve the people, but to “serve yourself”.

    Once in power you can delay or terminate planned capital works such as dams, power generation and transport infrastructure and “free up” substantial amounts of capital.

    Once freed up, that capital can be more easily channelled to uses where it is possible to tap off significant amounts and run it to where it can be given a more appreciative home.

    Here in Newcastle we have seen this process at work with a dam cancelled, replacement of aging power stations not implemented and the carefully crafted transport works currently underway which just coincidentally “freed up” a good amount of inner city land for other purposes besides serving the people.

    Greed never stops.

    KK

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  • #
    David Maddison

    I assume this demand management is not based on an honour system but requires hardware to do the load shedding. The hardware is known as DRED. I wrote an article on this in the April Silicon Chip magazine (link below). Almost all air cons sold in Australia are now compatible with this technology. The utility attaches a receiver to your air con or other compatible device such as a pool pump and can either reduce the power setting or more likely turn off the appliance.

    The Green Left like to call this concept a “virtual power station”.

    Remember also, as Australia deindustrialises due to expensive electricity, greedy out of control unions and excessive government regulations, lots of power is being liberated for the domestic consumer so large scale grid outages will be less likely. Unfortunately those grid outages would be what is required to make the sheeple angry enough to do something but they might not happen now.

    http://www.siliconchip.com.au/Issue/2017/April/DRED%3A+they+can+turn+your+aircon+off%21?res=nonflash

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    Casey

    Are you guys getting the new wifi “enabled” meters and devices?

    In the UK we are being forced to have “smart meters” and wifi controllers and such… soon there (there are already some on sale) will be wifi enabled devices.

    So… end result – we are told they are for OUR benefit, ease of use, etc… but the energy providers will be able to disable certain devices as they wish… so your washing machine might just switch off in a high use time.

    We are heading for an era of totalitarian controls all brought in “for our benefit”.

    250

    • #
      David Maddison

      Most of Australia now has “smart” meters but we are not currently forced to have wi-fi controlled appliances. Most air cons sold however are compatible with DRED technology so that the utility can attach a receiver to the appliance to enable them to turn it off during load shedding operations.

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    • #
      robert rosicka

      In Victoriastan we were forced to have the smart meters installed and I’m sure there is some cons to them but being able to see what I’m using hour by hour on the iPad is amazing .

      42

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Ever heard of a wifi jammer?

      20

      • #
        Casey

        Wrap al-foil around the sender unit… and remember to take it off when they come to check why it’s not working.

        We are being turned into peons with this sub-moronic promise of “you can see how much you’re using”… you use what you need to use; or are people so nuts that they wander around leaving lights on in empty rooms and electrical devices switched on doing nothing?

        I already only use what I want to use… I’m not going to turn of the TV mid-DVD just becasue the watchdog says it uses 200w…

        00

  • #
    robert rosicka

    You call it ” demand management ” I call it a Baldrick cunning plan .

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  • #
    David Maddison

    Note to all people involved in promoting civilisation destroying “renewables” plus all those at the BoM involved with tampering with temperature data.

    One day, we the people, will have Climate Nuremberg Trials and you will be held to account. Don’t say “you didn’t know” or you were “just following orders”.

    You have been warned!

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    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      Yes David, that is true. They have been warned, just as the Federal Parliament was warned in 1981 by the Senate Standing Committee on Constitutional and Legal Affairs that Section 44 of the Australian Constitution was likely to bring grief if not amended since much of it was obscure, harsh and inappropriate.

      But what did the politicians do?

      Nothing.

      Not even incompetent. Beyond incompetent. Corrupt.

      Now we see they are all bleating about their corruption being brought to light. Wonderful. Sack the lot of them. Let’s have an election so that we can boot out the corrupt, the incompetent, the lazy green saboteurs that infest the Federal Parliament.

      Renewables saboteurs be warned. Your time will come too.

      60

  • #
    Cynical Seamus

    Casey, David

    From the UK’s Ofgem, I’ve just read the following:-

    “While government and Ofgem believe that all consumers will benefit from having smart meters, they aren’t compulsory and you can choose not to have one. Choosing not to have a smart meter installed may mean you don’t have access to all the available tariffs on the market, some of which could be cheaper.”

    So, no pressure – yet. I appreciate I are an enjinear and can do sums, so can work out how much power I’m using, but how anal do folks have to be to want to sit and watch the smart meter readout? Is there nuffin’ on the tele? Heaven help us!

    Re Climate Nuremburg Trials: I’m sharpening me pitchfork as I type 8-)

    210

    • #
      robert rosicka

      Yes I’m sure there are some out there watching their usage like a telly and some who watch it to work out how much their using to try and keep their power bills down .
      I’ve noticed now that I have this function I was able to see what happened on 19 October when my consumption spiked to 40 kw for the day (14kw average) so I was able to get an hourly read to see what and exactly when the spike occurred.

      42

    • #
      Annie

      Watching the ‘smart’ meter is probably better than watching the telly. I certainly don’t bother with the telly, mostly useless, unfunny, salacious, pc, and there are better things to do, like reading the comments on Jo Nova!
      Many years ago when we had our first-ever front-loading washing machine we sat on a box and watched the whole cycle!

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    • #
      RickWill

      A smart meter output is more convenient than watching an electromechanical meter spin. In particular it is useful for detecting the holes in the bucket that drain your pocket. I have a plug-in inline power meter that is useful for monitoring single items but the data from the smart meter gives the total.

      Standby power of some old electronics is quite high. I had a payback inside two years for a video recorder that was left on to record when the TV was off. Since streaming and on-demand has been available the recorder gets less use and is close to useless now.

      The smartmeters added a significant cost to the distribution charge in Victoria while saving the cost of meter reading but the distribution charge has remained high.

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    • #
      ivan

      Here in France there is a very active anti ‘smart’ meter group that have realised the only real use for the so called smart meters is the remote turn off function that will allow turning off the supply in selected areas when the unreliables don’t supply enough power.

      Another thing here is the environment minister has been forced to postpone the shutting down of some nuclear power plants – I think someone mentioned that if they were shut down heads might roll and that is a saw point here.

      10

  • #
    David Maddison

    Isn’t coal a renewable?

    When you’ve used what you have, you just dig more up.

    You renew your supply.

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    • #
      bobl

      Yes, it’s renewable, can be artificially made (anaerobic combustion of wood to make charcoal) and is as free as wind and solar – you just have to dig it up. Methane (hydrocarbon fuels) is even more renewable, many organisms just *art it out! more is created in the earth’s mantle by non biological means, GT of the stuff gets made every day.

      It’s just chemistry plants, take CO2 and Water and make carbohydrates mostly polymers of glucose C6H12O6 and Oxygen, Carbohydrates are Hydrocarbon(ates) they are essentially oil – hydrocarbons with oxygen added. Glucose is basically Hexene with 6 Oxygen added.

      100

  • #
    David Maddison

    No Red Thumbs yet? The Red Thumb trolls are too lazy to get out of bed.

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  • #
    John F. Hultquist

    Mining is the process of adding transaction records to Bitcoin’s public ledger …” and so on.

    What will Bitcoin miners think of this plan?

    20

  • #
    robert rosicka

    OT , the TPP has suffered another setback with Canada pulling out of signing the deal , maybe oz could sign one with Papua New Guinea.

    40

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    Don’t laugh. I could sign up for an Edison program where they put a device on my compressor that will allow them to shut it off at will. Of course the rest of the system would keep running uselessly.

    Never! I didn’t put it in only to have it made useless because California can’t mange its affairs better.

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  • #
    Bright Red

    Rationing its called rationing. Why wont the media call it wat it is? Its what happens when there is not enough for everybody.looks to me that they dont want anybody to wake up to what is really happening.

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    • #
      Robber

      I remember my mother telling me about rationing during and after WW2. And there were threats of petrol rationing during the oil crisis. And back in the 1970′s the Three-Day Week was one of several measures introduced in the United Kingdom by the Conservative Government to conserve electricity, the generation of which was severely restricted owing to industrial action by coal miners. In 2004 the NSW government introduced a regulation on natural gas rationing.
      But who would have thought that in 2017 we would face the threat of electricity rationing solely because of the stupidity of state and federal governments in Australia?

      In George Orwell’s 1984, Winston Smith wrestles with oppression in Oceania, a place where the Party scrutinizes human actions with ever-watchful Big Brother. The Party’s three slogans are: “War is Peace,” “Freedom is Slavery,” and “Ignorance is Strength.”
      Winston works in the Records Department of the Ministry of Truth, which handles all Party publications and propaganda, altering previously published Party publications to ensure that the Party’s version of the Past is never questioned. Such alterations often remove a person from history, or make previously flawed predictions accurate. The other three ministries are the Ministry of Love, which handles all Party prisoners, the Ministry of Peace, which handles war, and the Ministry of Plenty, which manages the production of Party goods

      100

      • #

        Under Greeny -Alinsky-religio-politico policies
        it’ll be back to grass huts for some of us, some
        but not all, for some are more equal than others.

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      • #
        Ted O'Brien.

        I seem to recall odd and even number plates, that to cater for an ACTU strike in Hawke’s heyday!

        And, if I remember right, it was a very small number of people on strike!

        40

        • #
          Annie

          Odd and even registration numbers alternated in Germany during the 1973 oil crisis. In UK there was a speed limit of 50 mph on motorways (80kph) to reduce fuel usage. I seem to remember thinking how much more relaxed driving felt as a result.

          20

    • #
      manalive

      Rationing affecting rich and poor equally would at least be more honest.

      100

  • #
    KenE

    Demand management is advertised that if you switch off your air con when the temp. gets to around 40C you will get movie tickets etc. There is no way they are going to allow you to be the judge of when to switch anything off, because you could just switch off and go to the movies or something with the tickets they give you. The first time they remotely switch off your air con on a record hot day, everyone will scream blue murder and say they didn’t think it would work like that. Am I right in the way I think it has to work, because it is advertised as an easy, painless way for customers to save money, with no mention that you have no control over when things get switched off!

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  • #
    manalive

    This is just a small step above those bottom-feeders like payday lenders or retailers offering ‘cash-back’ deals which are designed to trap the cash-strapped into hire purchase or insurance contracts. It’s pretty disgusting and where are the usual vocal protectors of the poor like the Brotherhood of St Lawrence?
    Just as they made the airline industry exempt from the Paris Agreement, this scheme is another way the bien pensant class can insulated themselves from the unpleasant effects of its own insane policies.
    And governments insulating themselves, if they got out of the way electricity suppliers in a free open market would supply as much power to consumers as they want to use at competitive prices.

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  • #
    toorightmate

    It is as simple as this:
    The CO2 horsesh*t has to stop.

    150

    • #
      el gordo

      I thank the member for Tooright for his pointed suggestion, but let me just say out the outset that CO2 is officially a pollutant.

      To change the scientific paradigm and public perception, a change in the weather towards a cooler climate is paramount.

      I flatter myself that the ABC weather man now talks of ‘blocking highs’ and nobody ever heard of ‘baseload’ until Tony from Oz talked about it here. Victory is just around the corner.

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  • #
    ROM

    As Tony from Oz has repeatedly pointed out, only about 25% of the electrical power production here in Australia is used for domestic purposes.

    Yet I would hazard a guess that 97% of the discussion / debate around power production / supply / reliability and pricing is directly related to the “domestic” use of that power.

    Households / domestic premises can make do without power for hours or even days and / or can install generators or solar or whatever to ease any problems associated with the shortages and prices of electrical power.

    What cannot be avoided is that the entire range of systems essential to the survival and operation of our society / community / cities and towns such water, sewerage, medical, transportation and its fuel needs and so much else in essential services cannot continue to function at all or can only do so for only a few hours without that absolutely essential power.

    With only 25% of power production being used domestically all that hoo haa about paying domestic users to switch off their power and to get paid for doing so is just so much eyewash propaganda designed to make the citizens think they are doing something of benefit for the community and to make everybody feel good that they are doing something positive.

    Reality of course being that in the overall picture of power production such a flea bite domestic reductions in the use of power is just nothing but a blatant propaganda line to hide the Government’s and its el3ected members a complete and total ideological bankruptcy and ethical corruption in their abject failure to provide the most basic and essential to civilised living amenities and services for the citizens and nation they have been elected to govern.

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    • #
      chad

      what you say regards only 25% of power used ( GWh) is domestic is true, but unlike much of the bulk power users, domestic use tends to be concentrated around the am/pm “peaks” when we all decide to run the hot water, boil the kettle, cook dinner, switch on the air con etc etc. and push the instantaneous demand ( GW ) higher than any other times in the day.
      So an organised, co ordinated “domestic “power play” during one of those critical peak periods, could have a serious effect on grid stability. ….but cery hard to organise in reality !

      00

  • #
    The Last Man

    SELL-OUT BY STEALTH

    Money for blackouts today will become forced power rationing without payment in the future.

    This “Demand Management” first step is just to get the public used to the idea of power blackouts (a prelude to forced rationing)

    This is all part of the UN Agenda 2030. Slow introduction. Everything on track.

    Thank the socialist NWO Liberals – especially Turnbull and Bishop.
    Thank the communist Greens. The economic saboteurs.

    Your grandchildren definitely won’t thank you.

    They will only be told stories of the “Dreamtime” when power was for everybody and when it was plentiful and cheap.

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  • #
    David Maddison

    Let’s not let them confuse the issue by letting them use the term “demand management” which sounds benign.

    It is “load shedding” which has a much more obvious meaning.

    It’s what regularly happens in Third World countries, now coming to Australia.

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  • #
    Asp

    The following floored me: “…..to reduce demand at peak times and if successful it could become a permanent program and help Ausgrid defer the expense of major upgrade.”
    How long do these clowns expect to defer necessary upgrades? It is somewhat like a situation in Queensland some years ago where the electricity grid almost collapsed because of the turkeys on the electricity board(carefully selected by the reigning party) worked out that they could get much bigger ‘performance’ bonuses by deferring major maintenance.
    Anyone hoping that at some time in the future there will be more money available to do necessary infrastructure work than currently available is quite likely on mind altering drugs.

    110

  • #
    Timo Soren

    Having cheap kwh prices in the evening when no-one was using electric, moved many a water heater to heat up in those hours. In the US many customers with the correct form of Central Air Cooling can opt for limiting switches that restrict the total or average amount of kwh’s over defined periods so that peak does not peak ‘so greatly’ and they get a small but measurable break on kwh pricing. These are not green schemes, they are incentives to average the load to a level that are better for everyone.

    What I would like to see are people that check off the ‘I want green energy box’ to have their house cooled to 3-4 degrees lower than they set they air conditioners when there are excesses of electrons and not turn on at all their air when there is a lack of them. {Reverse it on the heating side.} Then they get to directly feel the cost of green energy.

    50

  • #
    Timo Soren

    Having cheap kwh prices in the evening when no-one was using electric, moved many a water heater to heat up in those hours. In the US many customers with the correct form of Central Air Cooling can opt for limiting switches that restrict the total or average amount of kwh’s over defined periods so that peak does not peak ‘so greatly’ and they get a small but measurable break on kwh pricing. These are not green schemes, they are incentives to average the load to a level that are better for everyone.

    What I would like to see are people that check off the ‘I want green energy box’ to have their house cooled to 3-4 degrees lower than they set they air conditioners when there are excesses of electrons and not turn on at all their air when there is a lack of them. {Reverse it on the heating side.} Then they get to directly feel the cost of green energy.

    10

  • #
    bobl

    Jo,
    The ONLY way a grid can increase renewable penetration is for a grid operator to take control of both Supply (Generation) AND demand (Consumption) the aim is to be able to do this in real time which allows an operator to balance a variable supply to a controllable demand. The discounts are just about getting consumers to install the devices that allow the operator to turn off your aircon when it’s hot – Kinda defeats the purpose…

    The renewable dream simply can’t happen unless operators get control of demand.

    To some extent this does make a lot of sense, it’s highly efficient, BUT it is my personal opinion that it will fail because to set the climate (excuse the pun) where people are prepared to have the utility turn off their aircon or pool pump on the hottest days, the incentive has to be there – that means energy costs have to HURT – A LOT. In my opinion that sort of financial hurt will drive people to generate their own energy rather than give the utility control of their appliances. This is because energy independence is simply better value than demand management is, and of course energy independence means not having to suffer the utility shutting down your life.

    Anyway, when cost is driven too high or service levels too low an economic problem known as SUBSTITUTION kicks in, the business model of the operators will become increasingly undermined and the grid model will become increasingly uneconomic – it will collapse.

    Just take one look at how Australia Post’s once profitable letters business has been completely undermined by the cheap delivery of documents by the telecommunications industry, initially with Fax and later with ubiquitous document scanners and e-mail.

    50

  • #
    Drapetomania

    Roger November 11, 2017 at 4:13 am
    The Morris Strong Quote does not look right.
    The only version I can find with a source is is different.
    Anyone have any idea where the shorter(edited ?) version came from ?

    In searching for a common enemy against whom we can unite, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like, would fit the bill.
    In their totality and their interactions these phenomena do constitute a common threat which must be confronted by everyone together. But in designating these dangers as the enemy, we fall into the trap, which we have already warned readers about, namely mistaking symptoms for causes.
    All these dangers are caused by human intervention In natural processes. and it is only through changed attitudes and behaviour that they can be overcome. The real enemy then is humanity itself.

    Its from page 75 in the link below.
    http://www.archive.org/download/TheFirstGlobalRevolution/TheFirstGlobalRevolution.pdf

    10

  • #
    pat

    what’s wrong with a little sacrificing when it will save us from “MANMADE GOBAL WARMING”:

    10 Nov: ABC America: 1st major Arctic blast of the season from Midwest to Northeast
    By MELISSA GRIFFIN
    VIDEO: WATCH: Deep freeze moves east after slamming Midwest
    The coldest air of the season has moved in and it feels more like mid-January than November from the Midwest to the Northeast.
    This morning, record lows were tied or broken from Minnesota to Michigan:
    •Duluth, Minnesota: -5 degrees
    •Madison, Wisconsin: 9 degrees
    •Chicago, Illinois: 18 degrees
    •Detroit, Michigan: 19 degrees

    Numerous daily record low temperatures are expected to be shattered Saturday morning, here are just a few:
    •Boston: 21, record 24
    •New York City: 26, record 28
    •Washington, D.C.: 27, record 26
    •Pittsburgh: 19, record 21
    http://abcnews.go.com/US/1st-major-arctic-blast-season-midwest-northeast/story?id=51068738

    20

  • #
    pat

    9 Nov: UK Express: US snow WARNING: Terrifying chart shows shock weather – temperatures set to PLUNGE
    AMERICA is about to be plunged into Arctic lockdown with snow, blizzards and freezing winds about to smash into the country, according to the latest US weather radar forecasts.
    By Joe Barnes
    Thermometers will plunge up to 25C below normal for the time of the year while a “lake effect” will bring torrents of snow…
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/weather/877506/US-weather-radar-snow-forecast-warning-NOAA-National-Weather-Service-AccuWeather

    10 Nov: TheCourierUK: Blair Dingwall: Snow showers possible across east coast as temperatures expected to plummet to -9C in Scotland
    The Met Office said the freezing weather expected from Sunday night into Monday morning could end up being the coldest spell of the 2017 autumn season…
    TWEET: Glencoe Mountain Resort: Webcams throwing up some stunning images today (LINK)
    Met Office meteorologist Emma Sharples said: “It is going to get generally colder. We’ll see the winds go from westerly to more northerly. Sunday in particular will feel particularly cold…
    https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/perth-kinross/542841/snow-showers-possible-across-east-coast-temperatures-expected-plummet-9c-scotland-articleisfree/

    9 Nov: UK Express: UK snow forecast: Latest chart shows Britain set for HUGE temperature PLUNGE
    BRITAIN is set for a huge temperature plunge bringing a potential snow megastore to the country, according to the latest UK weather snow forecast by the Met Office.
    By Joe Barnes
    A WXCHARTS map shows how Britain will experience a huge plunge in temperature, with most (of) the UK dropping below freezing on November 13…
    “It will start to feel raw and cold during the day and by the end of next weekend, we could start to see wintry showers to lower levels. There will be a risk of gales or severe gales in northern Scotland.”…
    Long-range forecasts predict that a polar blast to -10C later this month…
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/weather/877640/UK-snow-weather-forecast-Met-Office-WXCHARTS-BBC-Weather

    20

  • #
    pat

    enjoy:

    PICS: 10 Nov: ClimateDepot: Marc Morano: Cheers! Skeptics toast U.S. exit from Paris pact at UN climate summit in Germany
    The toast heard round the world.
    http://www.climatedepot.com/2017/11/10/cheers-skeptics-toast-u-s-exit-from-paris-pact-at-un-climate-summit-in-germany/

    you would think the CAGW mob would have moved their annual talkfest permanently to the southern hemisphere by now:

    10 Nov: TheLocalGermany: Anja Samy: Winter is here! Polar air brings storms, sleet and snow
    The cold polar air has reached the north of Germany and is moving south, bringing heavy showers and the possibility of sleet and one or two storms, DWD predicts…
    There will be a fresh west wind with strong gusts in the north and particularly on the coast and temperatures will drop to between -1C and 6C later on Friday…
    https://www.thelocal.de/20171110/winter-is-here-polar-air-brings-storms-sleet-and-snow

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  • #
    OriginalSteve

    And why the political landscape could change A LOT at the next federal election…especially if we have significant blackouts…….voters will just be itching to make a point ….

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-11/queensland-election-why-voters-are-switching-to-one-nation/9137130

    “Thousands of voters across the state look set to turn their backs on the major parties this election.

    Polls suggest One Nation could get its largest share of votes since the 1998 election, where the party won 11 seats.

    As Pauline Hanson wraps up her week-long regional campaign blitz, we sat down with some Queenslanders who say they have had enough of conventional politics.

    “I always voted Labor, but now I feel like they’ve sold us out,” he said.

    “I’ve lost faith in the Labor and Liberal parties because everything seems to pour into Brisbane in Queensland and there’s so many people doing it tough up here — it’s almost like they’re corrupt.

    “To be honest there’s not one political party that I’m 100 per cent behind.

    “But 90 per cent of stuff that comes with One Nation is stuff we support, we believe in.

    “I don’t feel so neglected.

    “I don’t know who the local candidate is, but I’ll still vote for One Nation.”

    Important point – I am NOT in favour of any political party. This article is a canary in the coal mine I think…..

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  • #

    This just a sign of doing anything to avoid fixing the real problem – namely having to support random feed-ins without breaking the grid in the process.

    To me, the solution is simple, ban feed in to the grid and give a discount (say GST off) all home energy storage solutions for say 2 years. So rather than having a grid that was designed to distribute power from a select few locations and being expensively band aided to work with highly distributed power generation – people instead use what they produce and then use the grid as a backup for when the sun doesn’t shine and the battery is flat.

    Anybody can get the GST off for the battery tech – so could be a household, a street, block of flats, a business etc – the point is the grid is no longer required to deal with random power generation cycles that are out of sync with the normal usage; and no, putting a big battery in the middle is not a solution, you just end up gold plating its interconnect to deal with whatever drop out needs covering – its just a sign the solution is not properly thought through.

    of course doing what I suggest would result in:

    - no more reason to gold plate the grid, in fact you could simplify it…
    - a lot more resilience in supply for those who get the batteries, and,
    - due to the softening of the demand curve (due to people being on batteries) an easier to manage grid

    This should all act as a downward pressure on the grid electrical costs.

    Of course, we live in reality, and the last things the owners of the grid would want is us to do is take away their excuses for ramping the prices up and getting fat off the resultant incremental cash flow…

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  • #
    Alistair

    Paying people not to use electricity? Why am I thinking of Catch 22 and Major Major?

    20

  • #
    robert rosicka

    Right now QLD is propping up all other states on the eastern seaboard according to the dashboard , looks like wind is very low today and temps up a bit .

    20

    • #
      RickWill

      But Queensland wants its share of the LGC pie. Queensland is the stupid State. They make electricity from coal the send it south with a cheque for the LGCs the State needs to comply with the RET. That is just silly.

      Queensland needs more solar panels and less coal to balance their books.

      LGCs are a negative sum game but the early adopters like SA get to drag down the other States while crippling their own heavy industry.

      20

  • #
    Tezza

    The suburbs named for this trial are mainly relatively affluent, inner city and green voting. So the payments are additionally regressive, on top of subsidised solar panels. The greens are laughing all the way to the bank, as they pile up costs on the poor outer suburb and rural residents.

    50

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      I was thinking mucht he same thing….besides…the Tesla parked in the garage will be supplying the extra to run the aircon, and they just go down the road and recharge in another area, then bring their electric shopping trolley back and use it on the quiet…..clever…..

      40

  • #
    AndrewWA

    Remember when everyone laughed at Paul Keating for saying that Australia was becoming a Banana Republic??

    50

  • #
    pat

    Al has the answer:

    9 Nov: CNET: Al Gore to the tech world: Help me fix the climate crisis
    “Everything is at stake,” says the former US vice president, but the right technology can help turn the fate of the planet around.
    by Katie Collins
    Al Gore believes it (tech) can been instrumental in reversing climate change…
    “My purpose here is to recruit you to be part of the solution to the climate crisis,” he told the audience at Web Summit — Europe’s biggest tech conference — in Lisbon on Thursday. “You can have a bigger impact than practically any other group in the entire world.”…

    Artificial intelligence, machine learning and the internet of things are trends that Gore said will help future generations more easily preserve the planet.
    “Our world is now in the early stages of a sustainability revolution… that has the speed of the digital revolution,” he said…
    Energized about energy
    An area where tech is making a real impact is in making alternative sources of energy, including solar, battery storage and wind farms, more viable. When it comes to the generation of electricity, the cost of solar power has fallen so fast that it is now significantly cheaper in many parts of the world than other forms of electricity, Gore said.
    “Tech is helping us to displace fossil fuels to generate electricity from new, sustainable sources,” he said. “We can match it up to the transportation system by shifting over to electric vehicles as quick as we possibly can.”…

    Solar energy and electric vehicles are close to Gore’s heart but also his business interests. His group backs a solar energy company based in Africa, along with a number of clean energy-based mobility startups, including Gogoro — an electric scooter company based in Taiwan.
    “Gogoro was founded with the fundamental premise of doing good and doing well,” Gogoro’s CEO and founder Horace Luke said in an interview. “We share Al Gore’s strong conviction for igniting the sustainability revolution and we are honored to have his support.”…

    The US is still signed up to the Paris agreement until at least 2020, he said, adding: By the way, if there is a new president, a new president can simply give 30 days notice and the US is back in the agreement.”…

    Gore reassured entrepreneurs in the audience that there were plenty of investors out there that weren’t just funding tech “to make a quick buck,” but to make a real difference in the world…
    https://www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/al-gore-to-the-tech-world-help-me-fix-the-climate-crisis/

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    pat

    10 Nov: ClimateChangeNews: Coal deals ‘very possible’ as US holds industry event at UN climate talks
    Ghana and Ukraine are among countries for whom the presence of the US coal industry at UN talks in Bonn is opportunity to strike energy deals
    By Arthur Neslen in Bonn
    Some countries attending UN climate talks in Bonn hope a Trump administration fossil fuels presentation will provide an opportunity to strike coal technology deals with the US.
    African diplomats told Climate Home News that talks on technology trades were “very possible” on the fringes of the US event on Monday.

    The following day, Ukraine is planning to table an initiative to bring energy corporates closer to the UN climate process, which it claims has US backing.
    The proposal would slot energy multinationals into an “intermediate layer” between the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) and national governments. It has been encouraged by US officials and coal firms, its authors say, and will be raised by Ukraine’s environment minister Ostap Semerak on Tuesday…

    ???Industry executives and Obama-era climate negotiators say that pushing US coal into the heart of the UN negotiations could offer president Donald Trump political cover to reverse his plans to exit the global climate treaty, should he choose to do so…

    Barry K Worthington, the director of the US Energy Association and a high profile speaker at the event, was unequivocal when asked if striking fossil fuel trade deals was an objective of the meeting.
    “For sure,” he told Climate Home News. “We in the US are very dedicated to increasing our fossil fuel production and exporting to other countries. The flavour du jour is LNG but we’re also exporting crude oil and derivative products and continue to export a sizeable volume of coal.”

    Benjamin Sporton, director of the World Coal Association, said there were “a lot of conversations going on” about US lower-emission coal technology transfer deals, which could get a boost from the event. Pakistan, Ghana, Nigeria and Ukraine were likely candidates for such deals, he said.

    Ghana has been living with an energy crisis since a drought associated with climate change hit hydro power generation in the country, bringing routine power outages.
    Wisdom Ahiataku-Togobo, the Ghanaian energy ministry’s renewable energy director, said talks about coal technology transfer deals with the US at the climate summit were “very possible, because the Volta River Authority [Ghana’s largest energy company] is prospecting for these options”…

    According to Seyni Nafo, the chair of the Africa group of climate negotiators, some African nations are turning to coal after struggling to access finance for renewable energy…
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2017/11/10/coal-deals-possible-us-holds-industry-event-un-climate-talks/

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    pat

    deja vu:

    10 Nov: ClimateChangeNews: Dispute over pre-2020 climate action ‘risks repeat of Copenhagen’
    Brazil’s lead negotiator warned a failure to meet negotiating deadlines and resolve a rich-poor procedural spat could set back international cooperation for years
    By Li Jing
    As talks in Bonn, Germany, near the halfway mark, rich and poor countries are at loggerheads over pre-2020 action to tackle climate change. That dispute risks holding up progress on the Paris rulebook, which is due to be finalised in 2018.

    Emphasising the urgency of reaching agreement, J Antonio Marcondes raised the spectre of Copenhagen, a 2009 summit that ended in failure.
    “We cannot run the risk of repeating Copenhagen, when the world failed to agree on action… it took us six years to redo what we could not do in Copenhagen. The world cannot afford such failure,” Marcondes told a press conference.
    “If we are to reach the goals set out in Paris, we cannot delay action until 2020. Ambition and actions should not be postponed,” he said. “Not all countries here in Bonn, as it has been clear, appreciate the need to tackle actions before 2020.”…

    A bloc of 134 developing countries, including China and India, warned of a crisis of trust if developed countries refused to put pre-2020 action on the formal negotiating agenda.
    “We’re not asking for unrealistic commitment from developed countries, we simply [want them] to fulfill pledges have already been made,” said Gu Zihua, a senior Chinese negotiator.
    “Pre-2020 is really a trust-building issue for developing countries,” he said on sidelines of negotiations, “If [developed countries] just turn down all proposals, then how could developing countries have trust for future discussions?”

    EU climate negotiators said they accept the importance of early action and are on course to meet their 2020 pledges, but disagree that the subject needs to be formally negotiated.
    “There are other ways… and other spaces provide opportunities to discuss this… but EU is not convinced new agenda item is the best way,” said Elina Bardram, head of the EU’s delegation…

    Specifically, developing countries are calling for a timeline to ratify the Doha Amendment to the Kyoto Protocol…READ ON
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2017/11/10/dispute-pre-2020-climate-action-risks-repeat-copenhagen/

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    pat

    ***is it 10% or 5%?

    10 Nov: Reuters: Fiji spending soars to battle climate risks
    Fiji warned on Friday it faces soaring costs to protect itself from climate change and called on the world to do more to curb carbon emissions to protect poor island nations from the increasing threat of floods and cyclones.

    In a report done with the World Bank, the South Pacific nation said it is spending almost ***10 percent of its gross domestic product to guard against natural disasters, more than quadruple the level of five years ago…

    “As the President of the COP23 and on behalf of the small island nations … Fiji is asking the world for drastic action … so that climate change does not impose a limit to our development,” Fijian Prime minister Voreque Bainimarama said in the report.

    The risks include rising sea-levels, more floods and landslides, destruction of crops and farm equipment and increases in diseases such as Dengue fever, leptospirosis, and typhoid.

    The effects of climate change already cost the nation around ***5 percent of its GDP every year, with the heaviest impact on the farm sector…
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-climatechange-accord-fiji/fiji-spending-soars-to-battle-climate-risks-idUSKBN1DA08H?feedType=RSS&feedName=environmentNews

    10 Nov: World Bank: New Report Projects $4.5 billion Cost to Reduce Fiji’s Vulnerability to Climate Change
    Fijian Government launches significant new study into the country’s climate vulnerability at COP23
    BONN: By 2050, Fiji’s annual losses due to extreme weather events could reach 6.5 percent of GDP because of the impact of climate change, with more than 32,000 people pushed into hardship every year, according to a significant new climate vulnerability study launched today at COP23 in Bonn, Germany. An estimated FJ$9.3 billion (US$4.5 billion) over ten years – almost equivalent to 100 percent of the country’s GDP for one year – is needed to build the resilience and capacity to adapt to climate change.

    Climate Vulnerability Assessment: Making Fiji Climate Resilient, which was prepared in partnership with the World Bank and Global Facility for Disaster Reduction and Recovery (GFDRR), was launched at COP23 today by Fiji’s Attorney-General and Minister Responsible for Climate Change, Hon. Aiyaz Sayed-Khaiyum…
    http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2017/11/10/new-report-projects-us45-billion-cost-to-reduce-fijis-vulnerability-to-climate-change

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    Unemployed Taxpayer

    And how will Ausgrid pay for this?
    Not with their own money, that’s for sure!

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    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      As I said above, it’s an experiment.

      They’ll probably claim an R&D tax deduction for it.

      At least that way their customers won’t need to fully offset it.

      The rest of us will be making a contribution.

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    DaveR

    Lots of commentators above say its the Green/Left pursuit of renewables which has led Australia into the disastrous condition it is in – deliberately winding back base load power, deliberately raising power prices for homes and businesses, and now deliberately creating blackouts.

    But its thye current liberal government that has continued the UN internationalist agenda (after Labor commenced the implementation, after Howard foolishly first embraced the concepts instead of completely dismissing them.)

    Simply, they are all in it.

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    ScotsmanInUtah

    ” Californians now pay about 50% more than the national average “

    If you think OZ is afflicted by the Green renewable mentality then just gaze upon what is going on in the West coast of the U.S.

    http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-electricity-solar/

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    • #
      Chad

      Yes, CA has its own issues with RE power.
      In addition to having to pay other states to take surplus power, California also pays to IMPORT more power than any other state…..31% of all power used last year infact was imported !
      Combine that with the reality that much of the gas generation capacity is totally underutilised and you can see the madness that RE power programs bring.

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    Andrew

    SO if 1300 households costs $1.5m, that’s $1000ea. In a country of 10m households, we will spend $10bn on demand management a year, on top of the capex, subsidies, grid duplication, lost production, lost jobs, and UN handouts programme commitments plus divertsionnof our aid programme? Sounds like a great deal.

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  • #
    Apoxonbothyourhouses

    To re-phrase “Our children may never know what snow is like”… Our children may never know what affordable power, available 24/7, is like.

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