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Aussies eating junk to get better weather, old coal plant increases 73,000% in value in two years

Funny things happening today in Australia:

Australians are cutting back on Fruit and Veges to pay electricity bills:

Since eating raw fruit and vege is associated with lower mortality, efforts to stop people dying of climate change in 2100 may be killing people today:

Australians are cutting back on basic things like fresh fruit and vegies in order to keep the lights on with the National Debt Helpline taking 14,000 calls in September — a record for the month, and up 14 per cent on the same time last year.

Dying stranded coal plant increases in value by 73,000% in 2 years:

The NSW government sold Vale Point power for $1m two years ago. It’s now valued at $730m:

In November 2015, the NSW Government offloaded Vales Point Power Station — an old, polluting coal-fired plant on the shores of Lake Macquarie — for $1 million.

Last week,… Sunset Power quietly released its latest financial reports — revaluing the Vales Point Power Plant at a cool $730 million.

Over the past year, Vale Points’ owners gained $380 million from electricity sales from the power station, compared to $270 million for energy generated during its last full year of state ownership.

Gas pipes from the Northern Territory and coal seam gas in QLD may rescue the East Coast.

The first gas is due from the Northern Gas Pipeline next year.

…plans to widen links between the east coast energy network and the Northern Territory’s gas fields, as well as new Queensland gas sources due to come online before the end of the year, may drive down gas prices due to increased supply.  The Northern Territory government’s proposed gas pipeline has expanded its scope to supply gas to the eastern seaboard, via Queensland and South Australia.

Queensland gas company Senex Energy will this week bring 30 new coal seam gas wells online, with production to begin before the end of the year.

h/t David B, Pat

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Aussies eating junk to get better weather, old coal plant increases 73,000% in value in two years, 9.5 out of 10 based on 72 ratings

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167 comments to Aussies eating junk to get better weather, old coal plant increases 73,000% in value in two years

  • #
    robert rosicka

    I want to buy a coal fired power plant .

    220

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      I got the plans for one of those tucked away in the attic somewhere.

      You’ll need to get a coal mine to go with it though.

      140

    • #
      William

      You buy it Robert, I know someone who knows someone and I can get you some “certificates” for when you are pumping out those evil carbons. Mates rates of course.

      100

    • #
      John Barrett

      Form a syndicate as they do in racing. Better return than a farting thoroughbred.

      90

    • #
      Dennis

      Keep your cash handy for the next Labor NSW Government

      10

    • #
      turnedoutnice

      I did the NDT of the High Pressure steam pipes of the W Sydney coal fired power plant, in 1967!

      10

    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      You don’t need to have a coal mine, if you view your investment as ultra-long term.

      [Funny, when I first wrote "coal mine", the spelling witch changed it to "gold mine"... Obviously the occult knows all].

      11

  • #
    TdeF

    At last. Someone realising that the governments have nowhere else to go but coal and that coal power plants are worth a fortune. Sure, Australians have to pay 3x the price, 2x just for the certificates, but so what? This is a crisis created by ignorant politicians. They will solve it with our money. Look at Pelican Point in South Australia. Flat out burning gas at an ultra high price to cover the failure of wind. Your money going up in smoke. $11Million a month for diesel in Tasmania. As politicians run scared for their jobs, there is no limit to how much of your money they will spend to avoid a blackout.

    392

    • #
      NB

      Unfortunately the SA coal plant was blown up by terrorists.

      200

    • #
      peter

      On ABC News yesterday, on reporting on the revaluation of the Vales Point plant, played the owner saying coal was the cheapest way to generate electricity. The ABC Newsreader then gratuitously added ” ….until renewables takeover!” What? When? The year 2117, if ever? Was this another example of balanced ABC news?

      60

  • #
    crosspatch

    Who knew that Australian voters were such masochists? I had no clue.

    120

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Jo…

      Should we rename the poor NZ from the “land of the long white cloud” to the “cloud cuckoo land”?

      Poor old NZ…..having its heart ripped out on the sacrificial altar to be offered up to the mythical climate “gods”…..

      Get your puppy dogs, rainbows and unicorns here in NZ while they last….

      http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-24/new-zealand-jacinda-ardern-signs-coalition-deal-outlines-plans/9082140

      “New Zealand’s incoming Government is hoping to make the nation greener by planting 100 million trees each year, ensuring the electricity grid runs entirely from renewable energy, and spending more money on cycle ways and rail transport

      Prime minister-elect Jacinda Ardern and NZ First Leader Winston Peters — who will serve as deputy prime minster and foreign affairs minister in the new Government — signed the coalition agreement on Tuesday and outlined their priorities.

      In addition to the environmental initiatives, Ms Ardern also outlined plans to raise the minimum wage, stop foreigners from buying existing homes, and possibly change how New Zealand’s Reserve Bank operates.

      The 37-year-old will be New Zealand’s youngest leader in more than 150 years and hopes to take the country on a more liberal path following nine years of rule by the conservative National Party.

      “I don’t need to be influenced on climate change,” she said.

      “It will sit at the heart of what this Government does.”

      Vale…NZ…..and right there the globalist fix is in……if you look closely, you can see the puppet strings…..

      240

      • #
        Greg Cavanagh

        from the Lego movie “Cloud Cuckoo Land” fits your requirements.

        20

      • #
        NB

        ‘liberal path’
        How to make the word ‘liberal’ mean nothing at all, adopting the American usage in Aust.

        20

      • #
        Manfred

        ….hopes to take the country on a more liberal path

        How I wish that were actually the case, as expressed by the classical liberalism articulated by the Declaration of American Independence:

        We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are

        Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

        — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

        But ‘liberal’ has now come to mean something so different as to be diametrically opposed to the ideas of freedom, happiness, property, prosperity and security expressed above.

        In New Zealand as in Australia, a time of brutal and real choice draws closer. The redistributive puffery of the Left is nearly done. All that remains is increasing destitution. And , it may not be long before it won’t matter whether borders are open or not. The tide of immigration will evaporate and the tide of departure will grow. Once again, another cycle of decline commences at the hands of the walking dead.

        The only trouble is that it is getting increasingly difficult to identify other places of relative freedom and prosperity.

        30

      • #
        Phoenix44

        It is sad that the word liberal now means using the state to force people to do what I want, when it used to mean the exact opposite. These younger generations have no concept of proper Liberalism, and no concept that their own moralising is not being moral. They are self-centred, self-righteous and poorly educated. I hate saying that, and I blame us, the parents, but it is reaching the point where people with no understanding of what they are doing are making critical decisions based on what they think is the most virtuous thing to do.

        00

      • #
        shannon

        Yes truely sad day for NZ..thanks to “another” egotistical idiot ie Winston Peters…

        I am a frequent visitor to NZ and have been impressed with their economy and direction for the past 4 yrs at least…
        Now…I hang my head as I know what is coming for the population…
        The farmers will be the first to feel the impact….tax on “farting cows” a certainty !!

        30

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        It is a coalition of the looters. But that is what you risk with the Mixed Member Proportional form of, um voting, and definitely um. not vote rigging.

        00

        • #
          Rereke Whakaaro

          That should have read, “coalition of the losers, but it seems that my spell checker is sometimes more sentient than i am?

          00

  • #
    TdeF

    Voters know there is no excuse for a blackout. A broken pipeline. A fire at a power plant. A strike by Unions. Nothing excuses a blackout in a country with the 1/3 of the world’s Uranium, the largest exporter of coal in the world and with abundant natural gas. A blackout says politicians are the problem and need to be given their marching orders.

    It’s amazing that it has come to this, that politicians who have pushed our national debt to $750Billion dollars in a few years have to actually do some work, behave sensibly and stop passing laws about Climate Change. It’s not their money, it’s not their country and they are not insulated from the consequences of their appalling arrogance.

    Blackouts seem to be the only way. Green is fine until you are sitting in the dark with a candle, the traffic lights do not work and the phone is flat and you are flat broke while the Prime Minister keeps his vast wealth in the Bahamas, like any President of a banana republic.

    410

    • #
      King Geo

      Spot on comments TdeF. Now we have to convince the “Brainwashed Aussie Electorate” of this “unfolding disaster”. Most folk out there just don’t get it – the penny will drop when the Oz Economy collapses and unemployment sky rockets. Meanwhile we have to agonizingly sit back and watch the disaster unfold. Astonishing while this “domestic disaster unfolds” many Aussies think that Trump is crazy – well will they think that in the near future as the USA Economy (unlike Oz) continues to grow exponentially, the Dow keeps rising & unemployment all but disappears. The MSM in Oz has a lot to answer for (except News Corp MSM outlets).

      90

    • #
      David Maddison

      TdeF your $750 billion government debt figure is out of date. That was last Friday morning. As of now, Wednesday afternoon it is $1.2 BILLION more at almost $751.2 billion. They have blown another billion in just a few days.

      The figures are so extreme it’s difficult to believe they are real, but tragically they are.

      http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/

      51

  • #
    Dennis

    I have a tenant who is 76 years of age, a full age pensioner.

    I offered her a reverse cycle air conditioner to keep the home unit warm.

    She declined my offer because electricity bills were worrying her.

    And she told me that she was not using the electric stove, relying instead on a canister gas stove.

    She is not one of the 8 in 10 Australians living in poverty, yet.

    And the thousands of children living in poverty.

    I never expected my Australia to be so hard on people who are at the bottom of society.

    532

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      That’s the green-left for you Dennis.

      Just watch what happens in NZ now they’ve got a green-left Marxist running the show.

      Venezuela, Zimbabwe, Cuba, Victoria and all the rest.

      301

      • #
        NB

        And the majority keep voting for more of it.

        100

        • #
          Manfred

          … an that’s the rub isn’t it? The largest proportion of the population, whether dependent on the State or not appear to auto default purely out of habit to the MSM as the spigot that informs their World view.

          For instance, most in New Zealand consider Brexit a disaster. Why? Because that is what they have been relentlessly fed. They believe it. They “adore” Hilary, they “think” Trump Is a maniac, they “believe” von Storch is the worrying reincarnation of Nazism and as a neighbour sonorously pronounced, and they will inevitably demonise Viktor Orbán, PM of Hungary.

          In the case of Beatrice von Storch, the MSM do indeed have much of which to be fearful. She responds in a recent interview:

          Germany’s young populist party, Alternative für Deutschland (AfD) …”That movement is pro-Christian values, pro-tax reform, pro-balanced budgets, pro-direct democracy, as well as being anti-Euro.

          It is also worth noting that the AfD was the only party in Germany to welcome the successful election campaign of President Trump.

          What are the values and convictions that drive and shape your personal political aspirations?

          Von Storch: My morals come from my Christian faith. I am also a firm believer in the rule of law which provides society with the institutional framework in which free markets operate. Great thinkers such as economist Friedrich Hayek and President Ronald Reagan are an inspiration and their legacy is still relevant. Hayek’s The Road to Serfdom warned of the “danger of tyranny that inevitably results from government control of economic decision-making through central planning,” a prediction that has proved completely accurate.

          So, when one frames our locale as the United States of Oceania under the unelected/able bureaucratic direction of Canberra, a different response begins to develop fairly quickly.

          I explain that NZ sends its elected virtue signalling powerless “MOPs” to Canberra. These “advise” a remote “Council” over which an unaccountable President presides. Everything is “administered” and “regulated” in minutiae by a titanic legion of bureaucrats; the composition of chewing gum, the wattage of one’s vacuum cleaner, the dimensions of a shower head, the areas where one might fish and infinitely, so on. Each year NZ sends several billion $ in designated “contributions” much of which is redistributed to “manage” the economies elsewhere of the dependent Pacific island States, and keep the bureaucracy in Canberra in the style to which it has become accustomed.

          There is definitely no “number 8 wire,” it is prohibited. One is not even permitted to think about it. Indeed, speaking about it is classed as a ‘hate’ crime. There is a flag of the United States of Oceania and its prehistory is exceptionally difficult, nigh impossible to determine.

          At that point, I have yet to encounter someone who considers Brexit a bad idea.

          20

    • #
      Yonniestone

      This is the results of ‘social justice’ Dennis, good people who’ve helped build and protect this nation are now falling victim to self loathing imbeciles who never got into a fight, got laid or picked for sporting teams are now wielding faux leftist power and seeking revenge.

      If the true test of a society is how it treats its most vulnerable then knowingly placing our elderly in danger is a massive failure for any that justifies this “means to an end” mentality, its evil.

      221

      • #
        Bodge it an scarpa

        The Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Party claim that if enough of us plebs got together, we could lawfully mount a civil uprising under protection of the Magncarta to overthrow a government that is corrupt/incompetent and operating in a manner to cause harm to its citizens.

        101

        • #
          David Maddison

          That’s why the US has the 2nd Amendment, the ultimate “reset” button for their constitution in the event of an out-of-control constitution-violating government.

          I believe Americans would have exercised their rights before two terms of Clinton ended. Fortunately a pro-American patriot got elected and the traitor is history.

          71

    • #
      William

      My mother, living in her own place, does everything she can to keep her power bill down – nothing is left on standby and the only electrical item not turned off is her fridge and a small hot water system. Her heating in winter is one of those heated throw blankets and a hot water bottle in bed. In summer she relies on the breeze to cool her house. My grandmother, as a comparison, thirty years ago lived on a pension in a large house and never worried about paying her electricity bills – and she ran an air conditioner throughout summer, two fridges and a freezer and as grandchildren we were never told to turn off lights or have short showers. In winter the heaters ran whenever needed – electricity just wasn’t an issue for her.

      How utterly disgusting it is that electricity is now a luxury item for so many. There are so many who should hang their heads in shame.

      210

    • #
      AndyG55

      “I never expected my Australia to be so hard on people who are at the bottom of society.”

      And remember, its the socialist agenda that is doing it.!!

      111

  • #
    King Geo

    “old coal plant increases 730,000% in value in two years”

    Now are there any other coal plants out there ready for purchase on the east coast?

    Hazlewood is an option but maybe use higher grade NSW Permian black bituminous coal rather than VIC lower grade Tertiary brown lignitic coal.

    Maybe build HELE coal plants like China & Japan – may this will save Oz’s Economy long term because the 50% RET will do the total opposite.

    And we have all the black coal one needs for the foreseeable future both for steel making & base load energy generation.

    160

    • #
      TdeF

      I would be happy to buy Liddell myself. They sold it for nothing. AGL has not spent a cent on it. I would sit on it and charge what I wanted, when they get desperate. The first thing I would do is turn it off.

      110

      • #
        TdeF

        but I would be accused of extortion. 25c kw/hr. No problem.

        100

        • #
          TdeF

          Alan Bond did this. Bought Perth’s catchement area. Threatened to build houses on it. So the State Government bought it back at twice what he paid for it.

          All corrupt and incompetent politicians trying to get rich. Climate Change. That’s not what is going on.

          172

    • #
      gnome

      Why use black coal where there is a plentiful supply of brown coal?

      60

      • #
        Bodge it an scarpa

        Indeed ! Germany and to a lesser extent once had strong thriving economies that were built on the back of cheap reliable 24/7 electricity sourced from brown coal fuelled power stations. It’s corrupt inept governments that have destroyed those economies, not the relative efficiency of brown vs black.

        140

        • #
          Bodge it an scarpa

          Should have read “Germany and to a lesser extent Victoria.. An EDIT function is sorely needed here, in addition to not being required to log in every day !

          40

          • #
            William

            Log in? I just open the site and voila.

            30

            • #
              Bodge it an scarpa

              Yes well my log in details disappear almost every time I log on, and I can’t see a box to tick to keep me logged on, like on many other sites.

              00

              • #
                greggg

                You must be deleting your cookies. Maybe there is an option in your browser to keep certain cookies? If not then a add-on cookie manager could keep your JoNova cookies?

                00

      • #
        King Geo

        “Why use black coal where there is a plentiful supply of brown coal?”

        I agree Gnome but I believe black coal is more efficient, contains more carbon and produces more heat (4X).

        But for Hazlewood it makes sense to use the nearby Latrobe Valley brown lignitic coal.

        But it is all academic – both major parties don’t want coal fired power stations, even the modern more environmentally friendly HELE plants.

        Both major parties are steering our fine country towards a path of “economic self destruction” via fast tracking to RE which results in very expensive & unreliable base load energy generation.

        90

        • #
          PeterPetrum

          Geo, it is not “RE” – it is “intermittent, unreliable and inefficient” energy – we must get the descriptions correct – language here is all important – viz the use of “climate change” by the global war-mists.

          70

          • #
            King Geo

            OK I will now refer to RE as PAURE.

            P = pathetic; A – and; U = unreliable; RE – renewable energy.

            50

            • #
              William

              King Geo, you can add ER for Environmentally Ruinous PAUERRE.

              That said, if you included every descriptor I would like to add to RE, it would be rather long and perhaps use words that are not acceptable in polite company.

              30

              • #
                King Geo

                William “PAUERRE” sounds very French. In fact I have been to Pau in SW France – it is on the Pyrenees. Of course France has its nuclear power – but here in Oz our Federal & State Govts are obsessed with PAUERRE – “Stupide” (actually the french word for stupid) – “au revoir Australie”.

                31

              • #
                Manfred

                Australian just signed a treaty of cooperation with the EU. French and German will be de rigueur imminently. The new age of neo-colonialisation is upon you Australia. The irony is that die Volk over at The Cons have yet to realise.

                00

  • #
    Casey

    In November 2015, the NSW Government offloaded Vales Point Power Station — an old, polluting coal-fired plant on the shores of Lake Macquarie — for $1 million.

    Last week,… Sunset Power quietly released its latest financial reports — revaluing the Vales Point Power Plant at a cool $730 million.

    Over the past year, Vale Points’ owners gained $380 million from electricity sales from the power station, compared to $270 million for energy generated during its last full year of state ownership.

    So – it was making the Govt $270 mill/yr…. and those brain dead morons sold it off for ONE MILLION??
    And then it makes the new owners $380 mill/yr?

    Can corruption get any more blatant and “smack in your face obvious”?

    But… hey… It;s all OK – it was sold off to appease that wonderfully fluffy bunny “Green agenda”. If the deliberate aim is to send humanity backwards by 1000 years… they will succeed!

    240

    • #
      clivehoskin@yahoo.com.au

      Can you guess who the Treasurer of NSW was at the time of the fire sale?Why that would be Gladys Berejiklian.Surprise,surprise.She sold it for a cool Million because she said it would cost too much to refurbish it.Where did we find so many of these”Cowardly,Lying,Do Nothing,Career Politicians”in this country?

      120

    • #
      robert rosicka

      Casey you say corruption but given the way government does business I say just normal everyday incompetence.

      50

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        Spot on rr.

        It reminds me of peter Costello and all that gold he sold off at bargain basement prices.

        As THE “Australian” report some years ago:

        “THE Reserve Bank sold most of the nation’s gold reserves more than a decade ago because the board believed its price would remain flat
        They believed also the commodity would not play a role in a future financial crisis.

        The decision to sell 167 tonnes of the bank’s reserves has cost the nation about $5 billion based on today’s soaring price of almost $1400 an ounce.

        A board paper recommending the decision to sell conceded that gold served as “insurance against a breakdown in the international financial system”, but it then dismissed the need for holding this valuable asset. The paper has been obtained by The Australian under Freedom of Information laws.

        The paper also said Australia need not worry about selling the assets because it had vast reserves of the commodity, yet the latest figures from Geoscience Australia show that known reserves will be exhausted with 30 years.

        The RBA revealed in July 1997 that over a six-month period, it had sold 167 tonnes, reducing Australia’s reserves to just 80 tonnes. At this time, the value of its gold assets fell from $3.6bn to about $1.1bn.

        The RBA’s sales pushed the world gold price down to an 11-year low, returning just $2.4bn for the gold that was sold via a single broker engaged without a tender.

        The same amount of gold would be worth about $7.4bn today.

        The decision to sell the reserves was approved by then RBA governor Ian Macfarlane and then treasurer Peter Costello.”

        Incompetence is the hallmark of governments that try to pick winners.

        10

    • #
      Chad

      Before you get your panties all knotted further, ..you might want to verify if those numbers are operating profit or just “revenue” ( income from sales)!..?

      10

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        An excellent point. Assuming that it was just breaking even when sold, thanks to the higher cost of electricity now they would be making about $110 million from a reduced output.

        10

    • #
      Bodge it an scarpa

      A criminal investigation into all those involved in this sale and subsequent revaluation is in order. Wouldn’t surprise me if more than a few Pollies have become undeservedly very wealthy over this.

      40

      • #
        el gordo

        It might provoke a Royal Commission, but I think it unlikely personal financial gain is involved. Its a more nobler form of corruption.

        20

    • #
      J Cuttance

      This reminds me of NZ’s previous Labour government buying the railways (back off an Australian outfit) for $400 million more than it was worth. Jacinda (if you think I’m pretty say baaa!) Ardern will almost certainly be equally stupid.

      Other people’s money…

      41

      • #
        Manfred

        J Cuttance, I think horses ‘neigh‘? After all, there appears a passing resemblance to an advert for equine dentistry I once saw.

        00

    • #
      Dennis

      Union Labor NSW Government

      00

  • #
    • #
      Lionell Griffith

      This is the only way it can be done. Use the name but gloss over the minor details that it could not exist without the massive wealth productive power of a capitalist economy.

      When you look at the reality of the details, it is your life being owned by the company store. You have no say about what the company store does to you. The only saving grace is that you can leave without being shot.

      It is a tired example of the expectation that the nature of a thing will be changed by merely changing its name. In spite of that expectation, it stays exactly what it is.

      80

    • #

      It’s a well tried scheme with many variations, personal and national. Through dedication to a cause you work long and hard for scant remuneration and you make products that get sold into a market where others work less long and hard for better remuneration. Your products win…but you don’t.

      This doesn’t work where everyone else is working for peanuts. No luck selling desperation tofu in the back blocks of Kunming. Even if it’s organic and GMO free.

      70

      • #
        Greg Cavanagh

        Communism at any scale fails.
        I’ll give an example I’ve encountered several times in my working career.

        Two neighbours have a common driveway.
        The driveway washes out and needs repair.
        Owner 2 is out of work and can’t afford his share of the fix.
        So, either owner 1 forks out all of the cash, or it doesn’t get repaired.

        Another scenario is that Owner 2 sells to new Owner 3, who does not agree to undertake or pay for any repairs on their common driveway, ever.

        31

        • #
          Manfred

          There’s the classic case of a prof who listens to his young class extoll the virtues of Marxism. He advises henceforward that class tests will be marked in Marxist style. The mean result will be determined and the higher grade achievers above the mean will have marks deducted and allocated to those below the mean. With each subsequent test, the grades and the mean declined as the high achievers pulled back (no point in making the effort) and the low achievers did even less (why bother, we’ll score anyway and can’t fail). End result — generalised decline. In economic terms – impoverishment.

          10

  • #
    Idiot_Wind

    Hi Jo,

    Isn’t the increase “only” 73,000% rather than 730,000% ? Or is it long past my bedtime?

    Anyway, what a bargain for all concerned!?

    Regards,
    I_W.

    100

  • #

    Huh, a 40 year old coal fired power plant with 2 X 660MW units for a Nameplate of 1320MW.

    At 6PM peak this evening Vales Point was supplying 1280MW of its original 1320MW, so 97% of it original specification forty years ago when new,

    At the same time every wind plant in Australia with a Nameplate of 4400MW, so Vales Point multiplied by 3.33, and wind was supplying 1100MW at 25% Capacity Factor, less power than TWO units at a 40 year old power plant.

    There really is no comparison.

    Tony.

    350

    • #

      Vales Point, purchased for $1 Million.

      So, last year, Vales Point actually made $380 Million from the sale of electricity.

      That’s an AVERAGE of $1.04 Million PER DAY, some days more, and at times during the year it would have its Units offline for maintenance, one at a time, still averaging more than $1 Million a day.

      $1.04 Million per day.

      Feasibly, ten years left in it, at least.

      Tony.

      250

      • #
        Chad

        Tony,
        The plant is a vital asset and deserves to make its owners money such that they keep it operational for as long as possible.
        If the $380m is sales revenue, what is your best guess at Operating Costs…fuel, labour, maintenance, etc …and what extra investments are they likely going to need in the nex few years to keep it running …in order to produce that income ?
        IE.. How much profit are they actually making ?

        50

    • #
      Chris in Hervey Bay

      Tony, What happened at Vales Point ??

      There are 3 stacks on site. Only the one to North East is connected to the boilers and precipitators.

      The 2 stacks to the South West seem to be sitting in an empty field not connected to anything.
      Were there 6 boilers there once with 6 generators ??

      Anybody know ??

      Check it out on Google Earth.

      10

      • #
        Chris in Hervey Bay

        OK, a bit of investigating. In Google Earth street view, at the workers car park entrance, you can see that the south west stacks are connected to boilers.
        The image was made in 2010.
        The image from above is dated 2017, and the 4 south west boilers are gone.

        Still, I wonder what the reason was ? As Tony says, the 2 remaining generators are viable, pushing out 1280MW. Why weren’t the other 4 ??

        Tony,, I’m also surprised you didn’t mention that 4 boilers and generators have disappeared. They are plainly obvious in the Google Street view, with Vales Point written on the end of the green building.

        Was this a bit of secret demolition that occurred in the middle of one dark night,,,, Like the Belle View Hotel in Brisbane ???

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        • #

          Vales Point did have 2 power stations at that site, The first of them had 3 X 200MW and 1 X 275MW units on that site and they opened in 1963/4/5, and being small as they were, they were decommissioned in 1989, with the turbines removed eight years later, and the rest was demolished in 2011 leaving only the cooling towers.

          Those two remaining 660MW Units were installed in 1978, and they (those 660MW generators) then became the standard in NSW, being installed at Bayswater, Mt Piper and Eraring. Mt. Piper had its two generators re-rated up to 700MW and Eraring had its four generators upgraded to 720MW, but basically, they are all the same originally rated 660MW generators.

          I’ve heard rumours that the four Units at Bayswater are being/will be/may already be in the process of being upgraded to that 720MW, feasibly extending the life of the plant, sort of umm contrary to the owners ‘getting out of coal’.

          Tony.

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    pat

    re the ABC’s veggies article. read the comments and despair. the ABC’s faux concern about fuel poverty, and refusal to ever acknowledge the contributing role of CAGW policies, makes me sick.

    just turned on TV to watch women’s tennis finals in Singapore & noted this is on SBS tonite. I posted a piece on news.com.au about it on the previous thread, where ***Kipnis talks about how he got his climate training from Al Gore’s climate reality project. climate denier Trump, climate saviour Obama, blah blah:

    VIDEO 26mins22secs: 24 Oct: SBS Dateline: America’s First Climate Change Refugees
    As the Trump administration pulls America out of international meetings on climate change, we visit communities who are already feeling its effects, and being forced to leave their homes.
    By Jeannette Francis, Lanneke Hargreaves

    Professor Harold Wanless has been tracking the tides and sea levels in Miami for decades – he says current trends indicate the issue could be terminal for the city.
    “[Miami] won’t be here in 100 years,” Professor Wanless predicts. “It will either be a few stragglers trying to hang on to a city that has no infrastructure, no fresh water, no sewage facility, or it will be abandoned completely.”…

    “I grew up here, I got my first boat when I was 10 years old, I’m 67 now,” says Dan ***Kipnis, a local fishing captain and chair of the Miami Beach Marine and Waterfront Protection Authority.
    Dan began to notice the effects of climate change on the Miami coast in the 1970s, “when I saw barnacles going up seawalls and pilings.”…

    It’s an issue residents of Isle de Jean Charles, in southern Louisiana, are familiar with.
    Last year the Obama administration provided US$48 million to resettle families from the island, who have been impacted by long term coastal erosion – leading to the community becoming known as America’s first climate change refugees…READ ON
    http://www.sbs.com.au/news/dateline/story/americas-first-climate-change-refugees

    the causes of Isle de Jean Charles problems are many and various & have been reported widely.

    here’s another island’s story…being used by Reuters…again…to try to bring Republicans around to the Consensus:

    24 Oct: Reuters: Emily Flitter: Residents of shrinking US island reject ‘climate victim’ label
    (Editing by Richard Valdmanis and David Gregorio)
    This summer, a delegation of Republican climate activists visited Tangier Island, a speck of grassland in Virginia’s Chesapeake Bay, to try to convince its 450 residents to take climate change seriously.
    At a dinner attended by island residents Aug. 2, the activists from RepublicEn headed by former Republican Congressman Bob Inglis laid out the stakes: The sea level is rising, and some scientists estimate that within decades the island, already suffering severe erosion, will need to be abandoned.

    The people of Tangier Island were used to this kind of message. Former Vice President Al Gore, a prominent Democratic climate activist, had given the same speech to islanders three days earlier. They were also used to rejecting it.
    “We’ll talk to everybody,” said James Eskridge, mayor of the mainly Republican island community. “But they’re not going to change many minds here.” Residents, he said, do not believe in climate change: they want a new sea wall to prevent erosion, not a lecture about saving the world with solar panels…

    And while conservatives have long been skeptical about climate change, doubters have a powerful new ally: U.S. President Donald Trump. He has called climate change a hoax and has started withdrawing the United States from a global pact to combat it, citing what he calls the huge economic cost…

    Conservative climate activists like Rob Sisson of ConservAmerica and Mitch Hescox of the Evangelical Environmental Network said the rejection of climate change by Tangier residents is not surprising: their groups often have trouble convincing fellow Republicans global warming is a real issue…

    Florida Congresswoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, one of a handful of Republicans to publicly declare a belief in climate change, said she has a strategy for getting fellow Republicans to think of solutions: “I’ve found that the best way … is to not dwell on the causes,” she said in an email.
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/residents-shrinking-us-island-reject-climate-victim-label-152338228.html

    ridiculous.

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      TdeF

      You build on low lying land in the tropics and you live at risk. The Venetians know all about it. It’s not Climate Change. It’s Climate Choice.

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        TdeF

        You could always live in Denver at 1600 metres. Or even sea level in Las Vegas at 60 meters. Is it smart to live in Miami at 2 metres above sea level? Florida is the lowest State in the US. Maybe ask Donald Trump to lower the sea level? Or move to the Maldives at 1.4 metres above sea level, the lowest country in the world and demand compensation.

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          The Deplorable Vlad the Impaler

          It’s always been a question (in my mind) of how to separate eustatic sea-level change from an isostatic change. Passive margins are notorious for being subjected to isostatic changes (i.e., Florida, Louisiana, etc … )

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          Graeme No.3

          NO, No. Remember that the IPCC said that The Maldives would be underwater by Jan. 1, 2018.
          Perhaps it is being caused by all the new airfields for tourists.

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            Graeme#4

            I believe that the Maldives gave just completed their 12th airport.

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              Chris in Hervey Bay

              I think you will find, IIRC, there are only 2 airports on the land, the International Airport next to Male, and a small airstrip at Maamigili, off to the south West of Male.
              All the other airports are in fact seaplane bases.

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                Graeme#4

                Thanks Chris – I shouldn’t rely on memory and re-check before I post. I believe that the reference I recalled referred to the recent major runway upgrade to Velena airport, sufficient to take A380s. Perhaps my point is still valid – despite their claims for money, they continue to expand their land- based facilities.

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              Graeme No.3

              Graeme #4

              Yes, it is a tribute to their reaction by holding the World’s first Underwater Cabinet Meeting to highlight the need for lots of foreign aid.
              Given the situation Australia finds itself in, I think it is time we held an Underwater Cabinet Meeting.

              As to who….well I have a little list (actually a rather large list) although I think we can dispense with aqualungs this time.

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          James Bradley

          … Holland.

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            Tdef

            New Orleans. The sea wall dropped one metre just before hurricane Katherine. The biggest subsidence in the world that year. The old city was fine. The new areas were well below sea level. Obviously Climate Change.

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        Graeme#4

        Venice sink rate increased noticeably when they decided to pump water from their aquifers in the 60s. When they stopped this pumping, the sinkage rate markedly decreased. But they still seem to blame part of their sinkage problems on climate change.

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      Chris in Hervey Bay

      I said in the last thread, I walk my dog at Port St. Lucie. The beach opposite the power plant is nearly always deserted, the beach is pet friendly and you don’t have to pay to go onto the beach.

      My boat, in Hervey Bay, came from the Light House Point Marina, on the Inter-coastal. I go back there to visit friends. It is only 30 km north of Miami and there is no change in sea level there either. The harbour master has been there for 40 years and we talked about sea level rise, and he reckons it is all nonsense.

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  • #

    That’s what I liked about the Bottla-Grange coup in NSW. Mike and Gladys showed they knew exactly why they were there.

    We even got a light rail…just in case the cycleways weren’t quite up to the task of moving more Sydneysiders. Pity about Neville’s monorail, but when a young white elephant collides with an old white elephant the old has to yield.

    So, a 730,000 percent increase for some lucky buyer? Personally I reckon some insider tipped them off that fairy dust can’t make electricity as effeciently as black coal. But how were Mike and Gladys to know all that? Sheesh, you can’t know everything in this world.

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      Dennis

      The sale arranged done by Labor, the Coalition inherited the finalisation. See comments further down.

      Sunset Power Internation – Delta Energy

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        robert rosicka

        Interesting company , they now retail electricity, supply 4% of the grid , are into solar in a big way , also gas and gas turbines .
        And the vale power station was the back drop for midnight oils song US forces .
        I can’t find an ex pollie anywhere on their board but they are busting to buy Liddel power station .

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    Richard Ilfeld

    From time to time some folks in the states look longingly at a parlimentary system, on the theory that one can actually get things done as opposed to the morrass that seems to preclude legislation in the states. Having recently reversed the so-called Clean Power rules,
    which the courts prevented implementation of in the first place, and looking at the government performance in the energy sector in Australia, might give these folks pause.

    But it doesn’t. And that’s the heart of the problem, isn’t it. When all of the real outcomes fall to the wayside in service of a myth, the problems become difficult.

    If the folks in power are really willing to starve the poor to pursue green energy, that’s awful.
    If they don’t admit the poor are starving, that’s awful.
    If they campaigned on helping the poor (all do), and don’t that’s awful.

    There is a simple and direct solution to both monetary and energy poverty. A very libertarian economist once pointed out the the solution is to simply give money to the poor. They would be poor no longer.

    For every client who needed “a helping hand, not a handout”. the problem would likely be solved. For the others it would at least be well defined.

    The current issues might well be addressed by producing more energy at lower cost. Failure, as I understand it, should yield a vote of no confidence.

    Shouldn’t it?

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      TdeF

      That is in practice in Australia. When people cannot pay their exorbitant electricity bills, they get government support. This was suggested by no less than Michael Mann of Hockey stick fame. The socialist solution. Give everyone money, especially the poor.

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      Lionell Griffith

      From time to time some folks in the states look longingly at a parliamentary system, on the theory that one can actually get things done as opposed to the morass that seems to preclude legislation in the states.

      The only real problem with government getting things done is the government actually getting things done. What you want is the government stopping thugs from taking your stuff and killing you. The rest you can do better for yourself or by trading with others for it.

      You don’t need government doing the billions of things they try to do but not all that well. They do it at ten to a hundred times the cost of your doing it for yourself and make you worse of in the process. They then send you the bill and collect the money using the same methods as the thugs they were supposed to stop but didn’t: theft by deception, extortion, or simply stealing it. Adding insult to injury, you don’t even get what you were forced to pay for.

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    Gordon

    This NOT going to end well:(

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    Michael Reed

    Okay the writing is now very much on the wall.The BS of think about our grandchildren
    and climate change -well what about grand parents who can’t keep themselves cool in summer
    or warm in winter and the extra families right now who need help to feed themselves .So this is the
    lucky country,what rubbish !!! politicians on either side labor or liberal are elitist-earning at least three times the average income of most people in Australia.Whats a power bill to them.Remember that most of them have assets anyway that are above 2 million dollars -so how would you like
    to retire on superannuation that would pay you over $100000 a year in your retirement?This virtue
    signaling on both sides of politics-its absolute elttism of the highest order.Keep in mind that such elites haven’t spent anytime on “cost benefit ” analysis of their climate change policies that are now significantly damaging the economy .And remember it will be a long way back through trying to retire national debt of 750 billion dollars with an economy that no longer has comparative advantage in energy -while at the same time having the biggest reserves of coal and uranium on
    the planet.Ten years ago I would not have believed this could all be true as it is now let alone
    write on a great site like Joes

    S

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      Graeme No.3

      Michael Reed:

      The Minister for Health in South Australia retired recently after 20 years in politics. Said he wanted to spend more time with his family.
      “Still, with an annual pension of something around $245,000 a year for the rest of his life, the 44-year-old Snelling won’t be needing to rush the job market anytime soon.” That’s indexed of course.

      There are some who think that his abysmal performance and the resulting state of the health system may have had some bearing on his decision, along with polling showing that he wouldn’t win either his old seat or the neighbouring seat where a faction deal displaced the sitting member, who promptly became an independent and favourite to retain the seat if Snelling were the Labor candidate. But in my mind he will long remain as the man who ensured that the world’s most expensive hospital as doors that stop snow blowing in.

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    TdeF

    Also Delingpole at his best with 400 scientific papers this year which debunk man made Global Warming.

    Consider

    Munshi, 2017

    …No evidence is found that changes in atmospheric CO2 are related to fossil fuel emissions at an annual time scale.

    Reinhart, 2017

    Our results permit to conclude that CO2 is a very weak greenhouse gas and cannot be accepted as the main driver of climate change

    As I have written many times and Munshi agrees, changes in CO2 are not man made. That does not take a paper really. It is a simple demonstrable scientific fact as fossil fuel CO2 has no C14 and C14 levels are not 2/3 of what they were in 1900. Anyway, great reading. None of the scare is true but then it has nothing to do with science, has it? More Science Fiction based on the loosest propositions.

    Where is our world famous science organization the CSIRO when you need science truth? Where is the totally objective and apolitical ABC? Where is our Chief Scientist? Why does it take a British Journalist to point out the truth as the lights go off in Australia?

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      James Bradley

      Cli-Sci.

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      Bodge it an scarpa

      Would be great if James was able to get a gig with one of our few remaining non corrupt main stream media outlets of influence ! We need him more than the Yanks do !

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      Sceptical Sam

      Where is our world famous science organization the CSIRO when you need science truth?

      It was subverted in 1986 when Neville Wran AC was slipped into the job as Chairman by the Federal Labor Party’s Minister responsible.

      Neville Wran knew bugger-all about science and everything about Gramsci.

      Soon after he was appointed as Chairman he admitted: “l am not going to sit in my office and participate in decisions that affect CSIRO and its staff, just by reading documents. I’m going to go and have a look, talk to the people doing the work, or in the case of a problem, to the people involved. If I perceive something which I think is wrong in terms of policy – or could be improved, then I won’t be afraid to initiate a change. In other words, I don’t see myself as the Chairman of a committee. I intend being an involved Chairman”.

      And involved he was. The objectivity went the same way as that of the ABC; left-leaning socialist sheltered workshops – both joints.

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    robert rosicka

    OT , anyone need a laugh .

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2017-10-25/climate-change-sceptics-converted/9053406

    The proof is undeniable , I’m just not sure what of .

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    Another Ian

    A fine example of “what was said” from “what was written”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/10/24/gao-report-cost-of-climate-change-damage-far-less-than-cost-of-decarbonization/

    And there is that TLA of CNN again

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    Robert Swan

    Quite a few commenters are saying this deal proves the corruption of the NSW politicians — get rid of them all. I don’t think that’s enough. The politicians are definitely on the nose, but I suspect many in the bureaucracy — those masters of irony who call themselves “public servants” — have even more experience in feathering their own nests. On the surface, this “astute purchase” utterly dwarfs anything Eddie Obeid wrangled.

    So kick the blighters out at the next election by all means, but keep your expectations low on any improvevement.

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      Dennis

      NSW suffered 16 years of hard Labor before the Coalition took over.

      Take care, Labor is well experienced in buck passing and making their own bad achievements appear to belong to those who inherited them.

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    PeterS

    Very rare for a government to show good common sense. These are just more examples.

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  • #

    Insanity, always a feature of Australian Politics, is now running at an unprecedented level. This is spearheaded by Malcolm Turnbull, the Greens and the Labour Party close behind.

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    Dennis

    As the Keneally Labor government moved to privatise components of the electricity industry in New South Wales including the electricity trading rights of Delta Electricity, on 14 December 2010 four of the five directors of Delta (including the chairman) suddenly stood down in protest over the proposed sale.[7] On 28 February 2011, at the direction of the New South Wales Government,[8] the newly constituted Board of Delta entered into contracts with energy retailer, TRUenergy, for the supply of electricity under Generation Trading Agreements from the Wallerawang and Mount Piper Power Stations. A subsequent NSW Parliamentary Inquiry was held, but the directors of Delta who resigned refused to give evidence before the Inquiry unless guarantees of parliamentary privilege would be given by the Government. Keneally refused to provides guarantees and, according to the Inquiry chairman, the Government stymied the Inquiry’s ability to uncover the facts as to the resignation of the directors.[9]

    In May 2012, the New South Wales Parliament passed legislation to sell the State-owned generators. In July 2013, EnergyAustralia acquired from Delta Electricity Wallerawang and Mount Piper Power Stations, near Lithgow, New South Wales, for A$160 million.[10] In November 2014, EnergyAustralia announced that it would permanently close Wallerawang due to ongoing reduced energy demand, lack of access to competitively priced coal and the power station’s high operating costs.[11] EnergyAustralia began the process of removing useful equipment from the station in 2015 and began demolition of the site when this process has been completed.[12][13]

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    Dennis

    https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/10/the-turnbulls-couldnt-run-a-piss-up-in-a-brewery/

    It’ s been a long and sad road for the MB narrative. We’ve watched on as consecutive governments have failed to grasp Australia’s contemporary political economy challenges, rendering bad decision after bad policy after stupid idea to snow the economy into a corner from which it will now be near impossible to rescue it.

    The answers all along weren’t hard. We needed to recognise that the post-GFC mining boom was short term and manage it accordingly. When it finished we needed to manage a real exchange rate adjustment to improve competitiveness and reboot non-mining tradables. And all along we needed to do some productivity reform to keep incomes growing. That’s it.

    Instead we’ve done the complete opposite every time. We reflated when we needed to deflate. We’ve choked instead de-bottlenecked. We’ve lifted the currency instead of dropping it. We’ve guzzled at the trough when adult restraint and planning for the future were the order of the day.

    All are responsible. The RBA has become an outright bubble manager. Treasury has made the nation almost ungovernable with its Budget lies. Politicians have flooded the place with mass immigration and illegal foreign capital in a last desperate attempt to keep it afloat.

    We were rich. So we’ve gotten away with it. But we are getting less rich every day because of the decline now and coming is the day when that will matter.

    Alan Kohler captured some of this in the past few days:

    In a press release last Monday, ACCC chairman Rod Sims said: “Consumers and businesses are faced with a multitude of complex offers that cannot be compared easily”.

    He was talking about electricity, but he could easily have been referring to the NBN and superannuation as well.

    Each of these essential services — energy, retirement savings and communication — have been mangled by politics, and as a result are hopelessly confusing and expensive.

    Complaints about the NBN jumped from 10,487 to 27,195 last year, or 75 per day; this week former Liberal Party treasurer Peter Costello effectively proposed nationalising super; and the ACCC reported that electricity prices had gone up 63 per cent in 10 years.

    And:
    The National Disability Insurance Scheme is like that renovation you embarked on and found, after you were well into it, that the stumps were rotten, the sewers were all blocked and the roof needed replacing. Too late to turn back, you had to tear up the budget and press on.

    The cost is what it is. We can’t have new carpet on rotten stumps and a new bathroom with blocked pipes.

    When it came up with the idea six years ago, the Productivity Commission said the NDIS would cost $13.6 billion — a net increase on existing state and federal disability funding of $6.5 billion, easily fundable.

    Last week the PC amended that to $22 billion in the “first full year of operation”, a 62 per cent increase on the first guess, and not so easy to fund after all. There is little explanation of the difference, beyond wages increases and population growth (which might have been foreseen you would think).

    And it’s difficult to be sure because it’s not clear, but that $22 billion could be the new NET cost, not gross. If so, it’s really $28.5 billion — more than double the original estimate.

    As said, there are many who are to blame. But responsibility starts at the top and there is one power couple that has hovered over this great national decline more than any other, the Turnbulls.

    Malcolm was, of course, personally responsible for the butchering of the NBN as Communications Minister. As PM, he has been a disaster in everything he’s touched:

    there’s no unified narrative on anything at any time for longer than five minutes;
    there’s no productivity reform, turning back progress in property, land, taxation, super and horizontal fiscal imbalances;
    energy remains an unmitigated disaster with a very easy policy fix in domestic gas reservation that is ignored;
    carbon mitigation has been shredded and only very partially rescued;
    infrastructure spending is low and poorly directed;
    banks and the social contract have turned into a circus;
    house prices have soared to absurd levels driven by Chinese capital that was quietly unfettered from policing when Tony Abbott was dumped;
    we’re still waiting for reform on Chinese bribes in the parliament;
    gay marriage has been butchered;
    a bold innovation agenda passed like rain one the mountainside;
    wages have been killed by penalty rate cuts and anti-union measures plus flooding the labour market with foreign supply and unaddressed visa rorting;
    brain fart corporate tax cuts will make the country poorer;
    electoral reform designed to kill cross-benchers was so badly designed that it expanded their influence and gave life to One Nation and
    mass immigration has been used to paper over all of this failure and is generating huge resentment in the east coast capitals.

    The end result is an economy with a dying private sector. There is bugger all business investment and not much coming. Households are ready to throw in the towel, paralysed by debt, falling wealth and wages and on the verge of killing consumption by saving like mad. Only the tail end of the mining boom – a short term income bounce thanks to more Chinese debt and LNG volume exports – plus endless fiscal stimulus is keeping the economy from sliding into recession.

    The political economy is now a running joke, starring in a global laughing stock special series mounted by Bloomberg. Nothing is envisioned. There is no plan. There is no beginning, middle nor end to anything.

    It’s all perfectly presented. Beautifully charming. Aaaand…nothing.

    And that’s just the husband.

    Lucy (Ponzy) Turnbull is a bloodless facsimile of the husband. Like some lonely and spoiled child with toy soldiers, she plays with Sydneysiders in her mapped-out fantasy of what the city of the future will bring. Her op-ed yesterday in the SMH was disastrously out of touch:

    I’ve been passionate about urbanism and what makes great cities for decades. As an older teenager, that passion was about loving the great buildings of Sydney’s CBD. As a city councillor and lord mayor, my passion was for the fabric and infrastructure of our central business district and the services and facilities for city residents. Now as a grandmother and as chief commissioner, privileged to lead the organisation charged with planning our city’s future, it is about the people of Greater Sydney and what sort of city we want for ourselves and our children and grandchildren.

    Greater Sydney has reached a “sliding doors” moment. The city’s current structure is constraining housing supply and affordability, holding back jobs growth where most of the population lives and has seen infrastructure and services fail to keep up.

    Sydney will be transformed into a metropolis of three cities under the new Greater Sydney Commission draft report launched by commissioner Lucy Turnbull, Transport Minister Andrew Constance and Planning Minister Anthony Roberts.

    The opportunity now, presented by the draft Greater Sydney Region Plan 2056, is to rebalance opportunity for the people of our city, by reshaping it as a metropolis of three unique but connected cities.

    For the Greater Sydney Commission this has been a relatively recent strategic planning challenge. But as I learned recently from an elder of the Darug people, this has been the long-standing Indigenous view of the Sydney basin. Our Western Parkland City, Central River City and Eastern Harbour City mirror their engagement with the freshwater, muddy water and salt water landscapes.

    This reinforces cities as a collection of places. Taking a strategic view of Greater Sydney’s next 40 years, it needs to be a city of great places; places that meet the needs of the people. who are at its heart and soul.

    So, our plans, ranging from the strategic – the draft region plan released at the weekend – and the localised district plans being released later this week – must start and end with how we meet the needs of, and connect, our people.

    It’s fair dinkum like some pre-programmed motherhood statement machine that has gone haywire, pumping out platitude in a furiously unfurling toilet role of flying paper, signifying nothing. We all know what 1.7 million more Sydneysiders will deliver. The same thing it has delivered so far. Planning failure, massive waste as rentiers swarm over dis-economies of scale, under-investment, shortages in schools, health, police, water and an abundance of jammed traffic. That is, falling living standards.

    The Ponzy Turnbull vision will not deliver three lovely Sydneys. It will destroy the place everywhere west of Strathfield. That’s the real idea, to pile up another 1.7 million coloured carcasses – snort, eh what, jolly good show, pip pip – out in the dust and baking heat while the east creams it in the sea breeze. This is class war masquerading as urban planning. If I were an elder of the Darug people I would be appalled.

    Domainfax readers give you the reality of it on the ground:

    The rhetoric used in the Greater Sydney Commission’s plan for what used to be called Sydney says it all (“Sydney on the move: a tale of three cities”, October 23). While the “Eastern Harbour City” has its natural harbour, and the “Central River City” its natural river, the deceptively named “Western Parkland City” will have no such natural equivalent, just a blighting, carbon-belching, heat-radiating, noise-generating 24/7 international airport, dressed up as an “aerotropolis”. Spin aside, Lucy Turnbull’s Draft Greater Sydney Region Plan is nothing less than a declaration of war by the big end of town against the people and environment of western Sydney.

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      Another Ian

      “The cost is what it is. We can’t have new carpet on rotten stumps and a new bathroom with blocked pipes.”

      You can – lay the carpet and sell on its looks while the new carpet smell is there.

      Maybe why they’re trying so hard to lose the next election?

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      Lionell Griffith

      The most frightening words ever spoken:

      I am from the government and I am here to help you.

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    David Maddison

    Not entirely off topic.

    On Friday I reported that total Australian Government debt (Federal, State and Local) had reached $750 billion. At some time yesterday it reached $751 billion. The vermin politicians have blown another $BILLION in only a few days. There’s no stopping them.

    https://youtu.be/4Q_rZHy0oik

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    Robert Christopher

    O/T

    Don’t get too downhearted! :)

    Here in Britain, we still have the BBC apologising to viewers for airing an interview with Lord Lawson in which he was allowed to deny climate change without challenge.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/24/bbc-apologises-not-challenging-lord-lawson-interview-climate

    Lord Lawson was the Secretary of State for Energy (1981-83, Chancellor of the Exchequer (1983-89) (when Margaret Thatcher was PM) and Chairman of the GWPF:
    http://www.thegwpf.org/who-we-are/board-of-trustees

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      el gordo

      ‘…the interview breached impartiality guidelines.’

      On the subject of climate change the ABC has thrown the guidelines out the window and become unbalanced. Undoubtedly the BBC and auntie are the propaganda wings of the Klimatariat and rectifying this anomaly won’t be easy.

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    David Maddison

    Who decided to set the price for the power station? Why no oversight or a professional valuation?

    This is what happens when you allow stupid incompetent politicians to make multi million or billion dollar decisions.

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      Dennis

      The sale commenced when Labor was in government in NSW, please read my post above.

      I have posted here a few times about the sale of government owned electricity businesses, private companies, established to replace the NSW Electricity Commission to be managed in a more professional and business like manner. The Greiner Coalition Government organised this. But when the Carr Labor Government took office they reorganised management with their own people (as Labor always does) and proceeded to arrange debt creation to be paid to the government as extra dividends to make budget bottom lines appear stronger than they were.

      Private companies owned by the government with no public accounting, and management left mostly on their own to do as they pleased, including lots of overseas travel on taxpayer funded credit cards. The Commission union problems were reinstated by Labor management.

      Labor spent 16 years in government in NSW and in their last year or two arranged the sell off. And in total accepted $5.9 billion for assets valued at bottom estimate $12 billion minimum. A loss of $6.1 billion, but there was more, the debts had to be settled and when that was done all that was left was $800 million of the $5.9 billion sale price.

      I have not had time to do more research beyond what I posted here earlier but I strongly suspect that the Coalition Government when the now Premier was the Treasurer were only involved in the finalisation of the sales that Labor were responsible for arranging. In other words, a done deal that maybe could not be reversed?

      Don’t read this as defence of the Coalition Government, just a logical explanation.

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    pat

    posted on jo’s previous thread about Chinese solar company Hanergy:

    23 Oct: CarbonPulse: Hanergy sells 48% of shares in CO2 subsidiary as China carbon industry struggles
    China’s Hanergy has sold 48% of the shares in its emissions industry business, the company said Monday, with some of the proceeds to be spent on ***non-carbon related operations.

    tried to find out more, but initially only found this FT piece:

    5 Sept: Financial Times: Lucy Hornby: Hanergy founder disqualified from Hong Kong markets for 8 years
    Additional reporting by Jennifer Hughes in Hong Kong
    Li Hejun, the entrepreneur and founder of solar energy group Hanergy who was briefly China’s richest man, has been disqualified from the management of any corporation in Hong Kong for eight years.

    In a series of investigative reports into Hanergy in 2015, the Financial Times detailed creative use by its Hong Kong listed subsidiary Hanergy Thin Film Power of unpaid receivables from its parent to book profits, its reliance on China’s shadow banking market for funding and the tendency of its shares to book all their gains in the last 10 trading minutes of each day…

    Hanergy is also developing its own solar powered cars. However, the prototypes it has unveiled rely on solar for auxiliary power only, and none are currently in the manufacturing stage.
    https://www.ft.com/content/a75646b0-9168-11e7-a9e6-11d2f0ebb7f0

    further searching found:

    5 Sept: CNBC: Sophia Yan: China’s former richest man now banned from Hong Kong’s business world
    •The court found him incompetent and negligent in his duties as chairman of Hong Kong-listed Hanergy Thin Film
    •That company made headlines in May, 2015 when it lost nearly half of its roughly $40 billion in market value in less than 30 minutes
    The company’s wild roller coaster ride highlighted the complicated relationship between Hong Kong-listed firms and their opaque Chinese parent companies, an arrangement that allows private mainland companies to access financing from the Hong Kong market without being subject to disclosure rules.
    Hanergy Thin Film’s shares had soared more than 600 percent in 2015 before their precipitous crash. At its peak in April 2015, the company was valued at over $45 billion, making Li China’s richest man…

    It was unclear why investors were sending the stock price up, as the company’s business model wasn’t new — Hanergy Thin Film had said 60 percent of its sales came from its parent company, Beijing-based Hanergy Holding. What added to the mystery was that Li himself upped his own bet that shares of his solar company would take a tumble just five days before the crash.

    ***Since then, not much has been explained by the company to the investing public about what exactly happened, and shareholders may never get a clear answer — or their money…
    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/05/hanergys-li-hejun-china-former-richest-man-banned-from-hong-kong-business.html

    4 Sept: Bloomberg: Hanergy Founder Given 8-Year Director Ban by Hong Kong Court
    By Benjamin Robertson With assistance by Aibing Guo, Ryan Lovdahl, and Jing Jin
    Zhao Lan and Wang Tongbo received 4-year bans, while Xu Zheng and Wang Wenjing were barred for three years…
    Hanergy Thin Film’s first half-profit plunged 70 percent as revenue declined 13 percent to HK$2.85 billion. Hanergy’s parent company, led by Li, accounted for 37 percent of sales in the six months through June, more than double the proportion of a year ago, according to the filing…

    FUNNY HOW I FOUND NOTHING IN THE NON-FINANCIAL SPECIALIST MEDIA!

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    pat

    this will upset some!

    24 Oct: CarbonPulse: China to ban financials from trading in ETS -sources
    China’s National and Development Reform Commission (NDRC) has proposed to ban financial institutions and trading houses from trading in the national emissions trading scheme in its early years, according to sources.

    DELAYED?

    24 Oct: CarbonPulse: China carbon trade likely to start early next year on low volumes and prices -analysts
    The trading platform for China’s national carbon market is likely to become operational in Q1 2018, giving around 1,600 power companies a few months of active trade before an expected deadline to surrender CO2 permits for 2017 at the end of Q2, analysts ICIS said Tuesday.

    24 Oct: CarbonPulse: Most firms are setting emission targets short of Paris goals -survey
    Almost nine out of 10 large companies worldwide have set voluntary emission reduction targets, but only a fraction of them are in line with what is needed to meet the Paris Agreement, a survey found.

    24 Oct: CarbonPulse: New London airport runway could see UK aviation emissions rise 26%
    Adding a new airport runway at one of London’s airports could increase the UK’s aviation emissions by up to 26% above 2015 levels by 2030, according to a new government report.

    24 Oct: CarbonPulse: ECOSYSTEM MARKETPLACE: New research continues to debunk old myths on carbon offsetting
    Every few years, New York University’s Institute for Policy Integrity surveys economists who have expertise on climate change, and it always finds overwhelming support for putting a price on carbon to drive down emissions — support that ideologues on the right routinely dismiss, usually on unfounded “economic” grounds.

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    pat

    23 Oct: DailyLeader: State needs to consider risks before taking them
    By Our Viewpoint
    Mississippi has a mixed record when it comes to economic development projects. The failures that make headlines most often tend to be “green” industries — solar, renewable, bio, etc.

    Just recently the state announced it may sue a solar panel maker that announced it would be closing. Stion, a San Jose, California company, notified the Mississippi Department of Employment Security last week that it plans to close its plant, laying off 137 employees.
    A company spokesman said Stion owes the state $74.8 million. Though the company is trying to sell the factory, bankruptcy remains a possibility.
    Stion originally promised 1,000 jobs but never got close to hiring that many…

    KiOR, which planned to turn trees into fuel, closed its Columbus plant after failing to produce fuel at a commercial scale. The state lost $77 million when it shut the doors.
    Another company, GreenTech, planned to build autos at a plant in Tunica. It had promised to hire 350 full-time workers but never did. The company received $4.9 million in state and local aid.
    Another green industry company, Twin Creeks, cost the state $8 million when it failed.

    State officials should consider those failures as it embarks on new projects. Just last week, a British company announced that it aims to build a refinery in Adams County that will turn wood into diesel or jet fuel.
    Velocys plans 40 refinery jobs paying an average of $100,000 yearly, and could indirectly support another 100 forestry jobs paying $40,000 on average. The company says Adams County has offered it tax incentives worth $42 million, and says it could get $15 million in state tax breaks. The county has also offered $4 million in land and upgrades.

    That’s an expensive gamble for sure. Economic development is often a game of “who can provide the most incentives” but those who win the game are sometimes left with nothing to show for it but an IOU. In the end it’s taxpayers who lose when these economic development gambles fail.

    We encourage state, city and county officials to carefully consider taxpayers and the risk inherent with these types of incentives before risking more public money
    http://www.dailyleader.com/2017/10/23/state-needs-to-consider-risks-before-taking-them/

    24 Oct: UtilityDrive: Solar manufacturer Stion’s decision to close Mississippi plant could spark lawsuit
    By Peter Maloney
    “Intense, non-market competition from foreign solar panel manufacturers, especially those based in China and proxy countries, has severely impacted the viability of our business,” a Stion spokesman said in a statement…

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    pat

    ***CAGW policies would cost tens of trillions over the same period, so how about we just adapt:

    24 Oct: ABC America: Climate change will cost US ***hundreds of billions in coming decades, watchdog report says
    By STEPHANIE EBBS
    Congress’s top watchdog is out with a report today (LINK) about the expensive consequences of climate change and is using those numbers to urge President Donald Trump to take action.
    Over the last decade, extreme weather and fires have cost the federal government over $350 billion, according to a 2016 report from the Office of Management and Budget, and today’s report from the Government Accountability Office found climate change will only get more expensive over the next century…

    The most concerning number is the projection for the costs of premature deaths related to extreme temperatures. In the years 2040 to 2059, premature deaths could cost the health sector up to $161 billion a year. Between 2080 and 2099, costs could increase to $90 billion to $506 billion a year.
    On a broader scale, the report predicts that combined costs of climate change across health, labor, agriculture and other sectors could make up 0.7 to 2.4 of the country’s GDP by the end of the century…

    In Trump’s speech when he announced that the U.S. would withdraw from the Paris Agreement, he also cited costs to the economy as a reason the U.S. should not pay into international efforts to combat global temperature rise. In that announcement in June Trump cited “draconian financial and economic burdens,” citing lost jobs and production decreases in industries like coal, iron and steel. The president was citing a study by a pro-business group called National Economic Research Associates but many experts say that jobs created in renewable energy offset job losses in industries like coal…

    The study does note that the numbers are projections and are not precise…
    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/climate-change-cost-us-hundreds-billions-coming-decades/story?id=50681945

    23 Oct: NYT: Lisa Friedman: Congressional Auditor Urges Action to Address Climate Change
    Fires, floods and hurricanes are already costing the federal government tens of billions of dollars a year and climate change will drive those costs ever higher in coming years, a new federal study warns.
    The report by the Government Accountability Office, Congress’s auditing arm, urges the Trump administration to take climate change risks seriously and begin formulating a response…

    But Senators Maria Cantwell, Democrat of Washington, and Susan Collins, Republican of Maine, who jointly requested the report, said between the lines of a conservative government audit was an urgent economic message that Washington should heed…
    The report, two years in the making, comes as the Senate prepares to vote this week on a $36.5 billion disaster-relief package to fund hurricane relief, a flood insurance program and wildfire recovery efforts in the West…

    The G.A.O. study draws on interviews with 26 scientific and economic experts and 30 studies, though it focuses most heavily on the only two national-scale studies analyzing the economic effects of climate change. One of them is an ongoing research project being produced by the Environmental Protection Agency, and the other is a study by several organizations led by the Rhodium Group that analyzed the potential costs associated with climate change in coastal property, health, agriculture, energy, labor productivity and crime…

    Trevor Houser, a partner at the Rhodium Group, which led the American Climate Prospectus study, said the accounting was on the conservative side…
    “Climate change is clear and present danger to the U.S. economy and the fiscal health of the U.S. government, and that risk is really unevenly spread,” Mr. Houser said. “It needs to be actively managed by the federal government.”…

    J. Alfredo Gomez, one of the lead authors of the G.A.O. study, said the federal government had identified climate change as a significant economic risk since 2013. This study, he said, asks the administration to use the detailed data to prepare for the inevitable.

    Robert N. Stavins, an economist at Harvard University, said he doubted the study would convince either Republicans in Congress or the White House to act.
    “The G.A.O. study is conservative, it’s not alarmist, it’s realistic and balanced and they go out of their way to point out all of the uncertainties involved,” Mr. Stavins said. “I don’t see any likelihood it’s going to be taken seriously.”
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/23/climate/gao-climate-change-cost.html

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    pat

    the madness never ends:

    24 Oct: CarbonBrief: Daisy Dunne: Study: Ending extreme poverty and limiting warming to 2C still possible
    Bringing “extreme” poverty to an end will not jeopardise the chances of limiting global warming to 2C above pre-industrial levels, a new study says.
    Pulling the 770 million people around the world out of extreme poverty – which is defined as living on less than $1.90 a day – would add a mere 0.05C to global temperatures by 2100, the research shows.
    However, eradicating poverty entirely by moving the world’s poorest into a “global middle class” income group, which earns a modest $2.97-8.44 a day, could add 0.6C to global temperatures by 2100.

    In order to end all forms of poverty without driving up global temperatures, world leaders will need to ramp up climate mitigation efforts by 27%, the lead author tells Carbon Brief.
    Ending extreme poverty for “all people everywhere” is the first of the United Nation’s Sustainable Development Goals…
    This paradox is known as the “climate-development conflict”, explains Prof Klaus Hubacek, a researcher at the University of Maryland and lead author of the new research published in Nature Communications (LINK)…

    A scenario where extreme poverty is eradicated (green) is compared to the baseline scenario (yellow). Both scenarios assume that global emissions will peak in 2020…
    However, this is only the case if global greenhouse gas emissions peak in 2020 and then fall, Hubacek explains. If carbon emissions continue to rise past 2020, ending poverty while keeping warming to 2C will be “impossible”, he says…

    Some charities have argued that eradicating extreme poverty is not ambitious enough. Instead, world leaders should seek to eradicate poverty completely…

    … people in wealthier countries should consider adopting “lifestyle and behavioural changes” to reduce the size of their carbon footprints, (Hubacek) adds, in order to offset the extra carbon cost of ending poverty…
    https://www.carbonbrief.org/study-ending-extreme-poverty-limiting-warming-2c-still-possible

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    pat

    behind paywall:

    23 Oct: UK Telegraph: Our reliance on energy imports is storing up trouble
    By Juliet Samuel
    Britain is also importing more electricity than ever and, despite our pretension to green credentials, we have no idea how it’s generated.
    A new paper for the Centre for Policy Studies by Tony Lodge and Daniel Mahoney (LINK) highlights that Britain’s electricity imports increased by 52pc in the three years to 2016, and they are only headed in one direction.
    Insofar as the Government has an energy policy, it involves increasing reliance on foreign supply. Back in 2012, imports were expected to account for just 6 terawatt hours of supply per year. But four years later, the projection had radically changed. The 2016 forecast sees Britain’s electricity imports rising from 21 terawatt hours to a peak of 77 in 2025 before declining to 67 in 2030.
    That’s close to a fifth of supply…

    Recent years have seen rising investment in the capacity of undersea interconnector cables that bring power to Britain. Currently, these cables have a capacity of 4 gigawatts, but there is another 4.4GW under construction and last year, the Government announced plans for another 9.5GW…
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/23/reliance-energy-imports-storing-trouble/

    from the linked report:
    It is now projected that the UK will receive 67 TWh of power from undersea interconnectors by 2030, which is a tenfold increase in the projection made in 2012…
    In the 12 months to March 2017, the UK imported 17.22 TWh but only exported 2.78 TWh…
    There are concerns about growing reliance on imported electricity from Europe as surplus supplies there decline. This is particularly the case in light of the German elections. Germany is already decommissioning its nuclear plants. If the Greens form part of the governing coalition, as is likely, they will demand the closure of fossil-fuel plants.
    The more reliant Britain becomes on energy imported from Europe, the more vulnerable we become to disruptions in supply, to sudden price spikes, or a wider tightening of capacity which pushes up prices. (This is already set to happen.)…
    This imported electricity also has an unfair competitive advantage, as it is not subject to the GB Carbon Price Floor or transmission charges faced by British generators…

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    pat

    23 Oct: Nature: Outward migration may alter population dynamics and income equality
    Author: Soheil Shayegh
    https://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nclimate3420.html

    re the above from CarbonBrief “Daily Briefing”: People living in areas that may be negatively affected by climate change could choose to have fewer children, a new study finds. Sea level rise and an increase in global temperature could leave some parts of the world uninhabitable in the future, driving many people to migrate in search of safety, food and work. However, the threat of climate change could drive those living in affected areas to have fewer children and invest in education, the new paper argues

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    pat

    wonder who will be disadvantaged the most by this?

    23 Oct: UK Express: Charlotte Davis: WATCH: Sadiq Khan roasted over new car charge hikes that will cost motorists MILLIONS
    The new toxin tax or T-Charge is being introduced today in the UK, with drivers of the most polluting vehicles having to pay a total of £21.50 a day…
    Mr Khan said: “Its a cost worth paying because of the air being improved.”…
    ***Mr Khan replied: We saw in August, the amount of diesel vehicles being bought .

    He said the T-charge is the “toughest vehicle omissions surcharge in the world” and it has been introduced in an effort to reduce air pollution.
    “All we’re trying to do is discourage behaviour so not all vehicles are polluting. We are going to discourage people from driving in the most polluting vehicles.”

    Sadiq Khan said his aim was to get more people walking and cycling and reduce the overall pollution levels in London. But he said that he encourages hybrid or electric vehicles in London.
    Mr Khan said: “We’ve got a health crisis in London. We’ve got a situation where the air in London is a killer and it makes people sick.
    “But the Government has got to do more. We need a new clean air act fit for purpose for the 21st Century.”
    http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/869904/Car-Tax-T-Charge-Checker-TFL-London-City-Mayor-Sadiq-Khan-Transport-for-London

    24 Oct: UK Mirror: Emma Munbodh: What is the London T-Charge? The new rules that will cost thousands of drivers £50 more a week
    Drivers of older petrol and diesel cars are to see daily charges leap on routes in and out of central London
    The new “T Charge” applies to mainly pre-2006 petrol and diesel vehicles – it kicks in at 7am on Monday and will apply every weekday until 6pm.
    Under the proposals, those driving older, more polluting petrol and the dirtiest diesel vehicles will pay the new T-Charge of £10 plus the Congestion Charge (C-Charge) of £11.50…

    However Stretton (editor at Confused.com) has slammed the initiative as the tip of the iceberg for motorists who already face eye-watering fees to use Britain’s roads…
    The charge is applicable to Pre-Euro 4 vehicles in the zone every weekday between 7am-6pm.
    Pre-Euro 4 vehicles are typically those registered before 2006 that are around more than 12 years old, but Transport for London suggests that anyone who has a vehicle registered before 2008 checks if it is eligible for the charge…

    The Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, has launched the T-Charge to tackle London’s air pollution and prepare Londoners for the early introduction of the Ultra-Low Emission Zone, which he is proposing to introduce as early as April 2019…
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/new-rules-kick-today-drivers-11393635

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      Dennis

      Didn’t he encourage people to use their fireplaces, to burn wood etc., and cause a return of London pollution smog?

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    pat

    there’s no War on Coal?

    22 Oct: Guardian: Adam Vaughan: UK energy firms call on chancellor to boost carbon tax
    SSE and Drax tell Philip Hammond they need longer-term clarity on price floor if they are to replace coal power plants
    Two of Britain’s biggest energy companies have called on Philip Hammond to strengthen a carbon tax that has driven a dramatic collapse in coal power generation, arguing it is essential for the shift to cleaner energy.
    SSE, the UK’s second largest energy supplier, and Drax, which runs the country’s biggest power station in North Yorkshire, urged the chancellor to use his autumn budget to shed light on the tax’s fate into the 2020s.

    The government said last year that the level of the carbon price floor – the minimum price for greenhouse gases emitted by power generators – would be frozen until 2020, but disappointed those who had expected long-term plans to be laid out.
    “We urge you to ensure the UK has a robust and strong carbon price,” wrote SSE and Drax in their letter.

    The intervention by two major firms comes after a report warned (LINK) that without a commitment to a strong carbon price, coal could enjoy a last hurrah in the early 2020s. Energy intensive industries who pay the tax, such as the chemicals sector, want to see the tax abolished or watered down.
    Both SSE and Drax need a healthy carbon price to ensure the economic case stacks up for their hopes of building new gas power stations…
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/23/uk-energy-firms-call-on-chancellor-to-boost-carbon-tax

    Aurora Energy Research
    Aurora in the news
    “A report by Aurora Energy Research has found that the carbon tax, which penalises dirtier coal more heavily than gas, has been “instrumental” in this change, along with cheap gas prices. However, it forecasts that coal plants could enjoy a revival in the early 2020s because coal is likely to become relatively cheaper than gas.”
    The Times 16 October 2017

    “Richard Howard, Head of Research at Aurora : “the economic flip would require the Government to set a carbon price of around £40 a ton by 2025 to phase out coal using market-drivers….The Government faces a tough ­decision on the future of the carbon price….Ministers will be wary of balancing their competing priorities to meet carbon reduction targets, while securing affordable energy and managing tax receipts”
    The Telegraph 15 October 2017

    “‘A sustainable fall in the surcharge can only be expected for the early 2020s when the EEG payments to the first generation of extremely highly subsidised installations of the early 2000s expire,’ said Manual Koehler, managing director of the German branch of Britain’s Aurora Energy Research.”
    Reuters 16 October 2017

    Featured Report:
    Policy update report – National Grid publication on System Needs and Product Strategy (LINK)
    https://www.auroraer.com/

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    pat

    updated 6 minutes ago. when I saw the headline, I thought this will be about CAGW!

    25 Oct: ABC: Queensland police execute search warrant on ABC Brisbane over leaked Cabinet documents
    By the National Reporting Team’s Alexandra Blucher
    The police service sought the warrant in relation to a complaint by the Queensland Cabinet Secretary, Leighton Craig, that the documents may have been “improperly accessed” in breach of Cabinet rules.

    The stories by ABC National Reporting Team journalists Mark Willacy and Alexandra Blucher focused on deep budget cuts to Queensland’s environment department under the then LNP government of Campbell Newman in 2012.
    The stories were based on a raft of leaked Cabinet briefing notes and internal savings proposals.

    One Cabinet note revealed that the LNP government used a “pain ranking” to help decide which programs and budgets would be slashed, while another detailed how oversight of the controversial coal seam gas industry was repeatedly cut.
    A third story in the series revealed the former Newman government killed off a profitable climate change company run by the state.

    A police officer from the Queensland Police State Crime Command executed the warrant during a visit to the ABC’s Brisbane office in South Bank.

    The warrant said that a “person or persons unknown having been employed in public office by the Queensland Government unlawfully communicated information namely confidential cabinet briefing notes and internal government savings proposals by the Liberal National Party in 2012…that was his or her duty to keep secret”.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-25/queensland-police-execute-search-warrant-on-abc-brisbane/9085120

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      robert rosicka

      This tit for tat stuff has been going on for years by both parties , we are governed by children.

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    Chad

    This is all Sooooo reminicent of the retoric that was being hyped arround before the “Millenium Bug” fiasco !

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    turnedoutnice

    Here is the simple truth of this 40 year old scientific fraud. The ‘Endangered Atmosphere’ Conference, organised by eugenicists Margaret Mead, who transferred Eugenics to the US in from UK Fabians, also Paul Ehlich, persuaded scientists like Stephen Schneider to create a fake CO2 warming threat when they had previously devised an ice age threat.

    1976 Cess assumed 33 K GHE, the atmosphere heated by surface radiant exitance, ~ 60% S-B level, the rest ‘atmospheric window’. He claimed OLR (-18 deg C)/S-B level surface radiant exitance (+15 deg C) is Earth’s ‘radiant emissivity’, a puerile error.. ‘Back radiation’ with ‘positive feedback’ then offset most of that heating.They claim ‘pyrgeometers’ which output in W.sq m prove bidirectional energy flux. However no competent scientist accepts this – pyrometer output is radiant exitance, potential energy flux to a perfect black body sink at Absolute zero.; Up-Down difference is real.

    To back this up, GISS 2d modelled radiant heating to match real ‘lapse rate’ by claiming negative convection, which cannot exist. 25 years later, James Hansen admitted to the AIP that this was a fudge = fraud. The UKMO devised a Kirchhoff’s Law of Radiation approach based on incorrect cloud data. My research has revealed real cloud properties are based on a change from plane wave to Gaussian illumination when Mie forward spikes are produced by large droplets. Hansen and van der Hulst missed this in the late 1960s. The proof is the rainbow and dark rain clouds NASA claims are dark from fine droplets.

    This rdiative physics’ mistake is also based on two other errors. Goody and Yung’s ‘bidirectional photon diffusion’ theory, based on Planck’s 1913 work using Maxwell wave theory, assumes a vacuum (or an IR transmitting gas or liquid). Our GHG containing atmosphere, not a vacuum, is ~60% opaque to IR near the surface. Self-absorbed GHGs offset same wavelength surface IR bands, meaning surface GHG band IR emission is emitted as OLR at various altitudes. Apart from random fluctuations about zero mean, there can be no significant intermediate radiant heating by surface IR of the atmosphere – the IR emitting surface disappears, heat being removed by latent heat.

    This is like the horn antenna, resonant coupling stopping IR energy transfer. n these IR bands. The surface, on average, disappears, surface IR energy emitted to space as OLR, heat transfer mainly latent heat via non-convective low level clouds which emit 16-23 micron water GHG IR to space at ~2.6 km as self-absorption decreases. The real GHE, about 15 K, is the resistance to latent heat transfer, basically set by minimisation of radiation entropy production from a fixed mean surface temperature.

    Highly positive increase of those bands’ self-absorption as more CO2 heating from OLR warms the surface gives strong negative feedback. There is also the ~15% greener Earth in the industrial age. Near zero CO2 warming. This explanation has apparently badly upset the climate establishment who stand to lose funding to continue to support fraud/al Haythamunprofessionalism. No doubt there’s a contract out on me.

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    TdeF

    A little piece about the absurdity of all this.

    Sceptic. It is a compliment for a real scientist. A real scientist believes nothing, unless it is proven absolutely and from first principles. This is done by building on things which are themselves known absolutely to be true. 1+1=2. 2+1=3.

    What a real scientist does is listen. Then experiment. Collect of data. Never, ever, ever change the raw data.

    Then the comparison with theory based on the hypothesis. What the real scientist does not do is just believe , accept popular ideas as truth, work on popular opinion or consensus or take things on ‘faith’. The key to Rational science is mathematics, evidence and proof. Proof itself must be confirmed, or it could be accidental. Things must be proven more than one way.

    The very ideas that ‘The Science is In’ or 97% of scientists believe in anathema to science.

    By allowing Science to be taken over by political extremists, religious adherents or science ignorant political parties like the Greens is in defiance of all the advances of science in the 400 years since Rene Descartes laid down the princples.

    Worthless power stations? Blowing up what was working? Demanding that people believe in something which is now after thirty years transparently untrue. Spending fortunes on building a water battery in the sky just because our science ignorant Prime Minister thinks it might work?

    After three decades since the formation of the IPCC, is there a single prediction of Man Made Global Warming which has proven to be true?

    Meanwhile people are having to trade off food and electricity. Why? Who benefits from this travesty, this irrational fantasy. Why is Snowy II even started without any evidence of benefit? If it is so necessary, why wasn’t it built first? How can we justify our National debt growing at $1Billion a week under our self proclaimed genius PM?

    Help! The country and science have been hijacked by politicians who do not have a clue.

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    el gordo

    The price of fruit and vegetables have fallen, so there is no need for the poor to eat junk food.

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    Bulldust

    And here is a balanced view of the McGowan Milo ban:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JXE6g2sroY

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    Tim Spence

    I wonder if any of the 2015 NSW politicians have now got shares in Sunset Power

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    Pete

    Re the diet matter…

    Many still believe the old myth of global overpopulation. Is the increased risk of death due to the cold consistent with a eugenics philosophy that we could do with far fewer humans on earth. They are a virus, after all, aren’t they?

    See https://youtu.be/_9g2r0SdEZc

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