JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Weekend Unthreaded

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Weekend Unthreaded, 9.9 out of 10 based on 30 ratings

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152 comments to Weekend Unthreaded

  • #
    Sceptical Sam

    All of a sudden the greens love dams. Yep. Dams.

    Australia blessed with more than 22,000 possible pump storage sites, ANU finds.

    “Australia has more than 22,000 sites around the country that could be suitable for pumped hydro storage, according to a study by the Australian National University.

    The report, details of which were obtained by Fairfax Media ahead of a public release on Thursday, extends work published last month. That partial study found 5000 suitable sites in Queensland and Tasmania.

    The additional data shows that NSW has the most prospective locations in the country, with about 8500 identified by the ANU team led by Professor Andrew Blakers. Victoria had about 4400 sites, placing it second among the states.

    Australia would only require a tiny fraction of these sites – for about 450 gigawatt-hours worth of storage – to underpin a 100 per cent renewable electricity system, Professor Blakers said in a statement.”

    Adam (not the original) is green with rapture:

    “’Snowy 2.0 is years away, but there are plenty of sites for smaller, flexible dispatchable pumped hydro that could be up and running in a couple of years if [he and energy minister] Josh Frydenberg showed some real leadership,’ Mr Bandt said.”

    Dams all of a sudden are good. Green and good. Good.

    The irony is just delightful. How many dams are required for each pumped-hydro scheme?

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/energy/australia-blessed-with-more-than-22000-possible-pump-storage-sites-anu-finds-20170920-gyl78b.html

    291

    • #
      TdeF

      Diesel is also good. Tasmania is spending $11 million a month on diesel. South Australia cannot get enough. The Australian Submarine Corporation has bought a $30Million diesel. Weatherill has ordered many diesels. So dams are good and diesel is good. Soon there will be no power and people will have to get those fireplaces working again in the older homes and generators in their backyards.

      All thanks to the Greens. Carbon dioxide in abundance, nitrous oxide, acid rain, particulate matter. What’s not to like about Green logic, taking us back from the clean 21st century to the smoggy 20th. All in the name of saving the people in China from our CO2.

      383

    • #
      John Watt

      Blakers says there are 22000 sites waiting for water and Flannery says there will be no water. No wonder some of us think poor old 17/18/19/20th century coal still has a future.

      311

    • #
      KinkyKeith

      Sam

      These “dams” are not the large dams we need, we stopped building those years ago because they produced unethical water.

      The 22,000 dams they have in mind are the little mud walls you see on many farms that each hold back about 20 cubic metres of water.

      The economies of scale of this masterpiece would simply have Australia bankrupted a little sooner than the current setup.

      And I’m sure that the original Adam might have been a bit more practical than the current one.

      KK

      211

      • #
        mal

        Add 1.2 to 2 Metres of evaporation per annum. 3 years of drought and you have lost 3.6 to 6 M of head. This is also equivalent of wasting the energy required to pump the water uphill in the first instance

        140

      • #
        C. Paul Barreira

        Chairman Mao would recognise and laud them. And isn’t that the point?

        80

    • #
      David Maddison

      And it cost a mere $500,000 of taxpayer money to tell us this.

      Most likely they are not economical or even natural sites as most of those have been identified and exploited.

      They are likely to be uneconomic sites of little value or expensive “turkey’s nest” sites exploiting a typical 100m cliff height between the sea and the top of a cliff and utilising a “dam” made of an eathern circular embankment at the top and sea water as the working fluid.

      163

    • #

      Some will find this new proposition interesting. Me, I like to beat the rush and ignore “recent studies” immediately rather than wait the usual five years.

      140

    • #
      jorgekafkazar

      “All the potential sites we have found are outside national parks and urban areas…”

      In other words, away from where the electricity is actually needed.

      It is typical and significant that the word “cost” appears nowhere in the underlying linked article. There is not even a single “$” apparent. It’s if-we-had-ham-we-could-have-ham-and-eggs-if-we-had-eggs cogitation. Can’t really call it thinking.

      81

    • #
      David Maddison

      This isn’t the first such Australian study to identify low grade pumped hydro sites.

      Here is another from 2014.

      http://energy.unimelb.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/1526587/Opps-for-pumped-hydro-in-Australia.pdf

      32

    • #
      David Maddison

      Why all of a sudden are they looking at pumped hydro as “battery” storage when I thought the Tesla Big Battery was going to save us?

      I suspect it is about delaying tactics.

      They know batteries can’t save us but batteries can supposedly be installed very quickly.

      Dams take much longer to get approvals and to build so they can falsely claim dams will save us (that’s a bit rich coming from a Green, LoL) but their implementation will be years away and they will pacify concerns for years until these things are built and then found to be useless anyway.

      61

    • #
      Analitik

      The ABC has sunk to new lows in taking Prof Blakers and his team’s “research” at face value. And the A$500,000 funding through the ARENA grant just shows how much these parasitic organisations depend on taxpayer largesse.

      Minister Josh Frydenberg has shown his political expediency by welcoming the findings of this pipedream/drivel/fantasy so our government is still in the thrall of the greenwashed mathematically illiterate. One day (hopefully soon) the public must realise the blatant con job that is in play from all these special interest groups. Meantime, the waste continues, the opportunities for meaningful investment remain missed and blackouts across the NEM loom.

      40

    • #
      Geoffrey Williams

      Cripes Sam we could all have a dam in the backyard!
      I can see it now ha ha

      20

      • #
        Geoffrey Williams

        I meant to continue but a glitch stole my my punch line;

        ‘Australia to run on rooftop solar and backyard dams by 2100′ University green professors are hysterical aren’t they?!
        GeoffW

        20

  • #
    Dean

    Some of these sites include the cistern and the toilet bowl…………

    150

  • #

    Twenty two thousand sites which can support Pumped Hydro power generation here in Australia, and who would have known eh, and didn’t the ABC get excited. What surprises me is that there are only 22,000 of them. (/sarc) Here’s the link to that ABC news article, and scroll to the bottom for that last shorter video, where the ANU Professor says that they have identified those 22,000 sites, and we only need to utilise a few of them for Australia to be 100% renewable, and he says it can be ….. comfortably achieved before 2030, and, wonder of wonders, at a nett ZERO cost. He then says that they then use the plentiful extra wind and solar power to pump the water back up to the top catchment, and allow it to be used when it’s needed most.

    There are so many things wrong with what he said, and yet you can bet people, (like the ABC especially) will latch onto something this like it’s such a simple thing to do, considering it costs nothing, as he said. So, not only do they need to ‘overbuild’ wind and solar, but now extra to cover all that free pumped hydro.

    And say, it’s such a vital part of Australia’s power generation. I mean, in the last week alone, just in those seven days, it was working at monumental levels.

    There are two pumped hydro sites here in Australia, one at Tumut Three in the Snowys of 1650MW and the second one at Wivenhoe, where there is 500MW of Nameplate from its two Units. Wivenhoe did not even operate during those last 7 days, and at Tumut Three, they ran one of its six Units, generating 260MW for three hours, doing that twice, and again, one Unit at 260MW for six hours.

    So, the total power generated from Pumped Hydro in the last seven days came in at 0.08% of Australia’s generated power, so not even one tenth of one percent.

    Still, there’s another 22,000 sites to exploit isn’t there?

    I have this week’s data and analysis for Base Load at the following link.

    Australian Base Load Electrical Power – Week Ending 23rd September 2017

    Tony.

    281

    • #
      Russ Wood

      Tony – there’s another problem with all this ‘new green’ ideas of dams. Is there enough water? Last year, South Africa’s pumped storage scheme in the Drakensberg mountains couldn’t work, as there was a drought and the lower level dam was just about dry, so there was nothing to pump! Now, of all these marvellous Australian sites, is there actually enough water present to pump?

      80

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        There’s a solution.

        First you pump in sea water to the lower dam using wave-powered technology (there’s some of it residing on a beach down at Port Kembla (NSW) just itching to be resurrected).

        Then you pump the sea water up another slope to the holding pond using off-peak wind-power.

        Then you run the sea water through an osmotic filtration process to remove the salt so that the fish (mainly carp) don’t die, using off-peak solar.

        Then you run the concentrated salt water slurry down the slope through a generator during peak electricity charge time, feeding it into the NEM.

        Ten concentrate and evaporate the salt slurry in evaporation ponds, gather up the salt and sell it as Kosher and Halal sea salt flakes (with your government endorsed Certification) to the international salt market as Green Australian Bespoke Salt Flakes.

        You then send your invoice (four actually) to a coal-fired power station and collect your REC subsidies.

        You then take the (now fresh) water from the osmotic process and use it to grow mung beans which you can sell at a profit to the inner-urban, organic-addicted, green-lefties.

        Then, catch the carp and export them to Europe where it’s considered a delicacy. Send your invoice to the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade for reimbursement of your promotional costs under the Export Market Development Fund.

        Water? Bah. Who needs water?

        130

        • #

          Okay then, read this Post of mine, where I actually canvassed the idea of salt water hydro, in a similar manner to pumped hydro.

          It was just one of some options for power generation.

          It was from my original Series I wrote when I was just starting out.

          After you’ve read it, (if you do) then scroll back to the top and look at the date I wrote it.

          Kyoto – A Perspective (Part 21)

          Tony.

          80

    • #
      clive hoskin

      What ever these”Greenies”latest thought bubble is,run a mile.You can bet it will cost US a huge amount of money and not a achieve anything.

      50

    • #

      Hi tony
      A bit off topic. Re Australia’s minimum base load of 18,000 MW. What is your opinion as to how much that would increase through 2046 when our last coal power plants Mt Piper and Stanwell are turned off?
      I suppose gas might fill most gaps initially, if we can get it and afford it. with little assistance and from renewables at 4am.
      I appreciate your expert comments on Australia’s energy shambles. It’s a pity our ill informed “leaders” don’t.

      Terence M

      60

      • #

        Terence,

        thanks for this comment.

        Long long before 2046, we will have come to our senses, and that huge Supertanker of current thinking is ever so gradually beginning to turn even now.

        Australia has (quite literally) no idea just how close we are to going black.

        I’ll refer to that Base Load of 18000MW specifically here, because what I have noticed something in these last few weeks.

        That 18000MW has been pretty much steady over the last six or seven years, and admitted, I haven’t been watching it every day, but it falls below that amount usually only on one sometimes two days a year, but one mainly, and that’s Christmas Day, that morning at 4AM when Santa is well on his way, and that Base Load is down as low as 16,000MW, and that 2000MW drop is pretty substantial, and why is that.

        It’s because virtually no Industry or even Mining is in operation at all, with just a caretaker presence at their work places. Coles, Woolies, and every high rise and every home consumer is still consuming what it does every day, but because there are no major consumers like those smelters, both steel and aluminium, now closed for that one day a year, then that Base Load drops significantly.

        However, right now, across the last two or three weeks, that Base Load is falling, and not just a little, but down below 16000MW and I have never seen that, except for Christmas Day, and it’s not just one isolated day, like you might expect on Saturday and Sunday mornings, but now on week day mornings.

        Admitted, it’s the benign months between Winter and Summer when consumption drops marginally, but this is now consistent.

        We have anything between 4500 and 6000MW of coal fired Units off line, as maintenance is hastily scheduled so as many Units as possible are ready for the approaching Summer, and at any one stage there are 4 units in NSW, four in Qld, and two Units in Victoria off line, and with Liddell now having problems with its ancient Units, that only exacerbates the problem. That 4500MW is a huge amount to take out of the system, and I’m of an opinion that some of those major consumers in smelting and mining have been asked to ease back a little on their consumption, hence the Base Load is falling significantly.

        It was really weird to watch this. In NSW, one of the Units at Bayswater went down and was off line for almost 8 days or so. That’s 660MW in one hit, and to cover that with gas would mean probably four or five whole plants coming on line to cover it at an astronomical cost because they would need to run for longer than they usually do, a helluva lot longer, days instead of hours.

        Then. some time yesterday, that Unit at Bayswater came on line. Almost simultaneously one of the big Units at Vales Point (720MW) eased back to zero, and I don’t mean 24 hours give or take, but almost within the hour, like the guy at Bayswater was on the phone to the guy at Vales Point, saying, yep, looking good on the run up, still good, okay, start winding yours down. They crossed at half power one on the way up and one on the way down, leaving NSW in the same position, still with four Units down One at Bayswater/Vales Point, 2 at Liddell, and one at Mt.Piper. NSW is on a bit of do do at the moment, and both Queensland and Victoria are feeding power into NSW.

        Okay then, what does all this mean?

        State Governments in every State (barring Qld, with plentiful supply and the basket case of SouthAus) right now are discovering that their States really do actually run on coal fired power.

        What happens next is that they just have to find a way to tell the public that coal fired power IS the engine that keeps the lights on.

        They’ll get by, maybe, until they do get that word out, and then it will be a pretty frantic construction program, considering it’ll take six or seven years.

        Pity help the politician, or political party on the wrong side of this “We need more coal fired power” argument, blustering that it’s the wrong way to go. They will be shredded.

        All it’s going to take is one unscheduled outage of one of those biggies, and it will go black no matter what they do, and then they will HAVE to tell the people. Right now, they think they can do it slowly, or even not do it all.

        Pretty soon, people (other than me) will be bringing this up.

        I’ll just become a bandwagon jumper as no one will bother to notice I’ve been talking about this for years now.

        It will happen, because it HAS to happen.

        The time is fast approaching now.

        Tony.

        40

        • #

          Thanks Tony

          “All it’s going to take is one unscheduled outage of one of these biggies and it will go black no matter what” and that’s right now.
          Looking ahead 10 years current thinking indicates we will loose Liddell and Vales Point +/-3,000 MW.
          At that time we can expect the minimum base load to have increased by say 2,000 MW, a modest 1.5% pa growth increase.
          So over the next 10 years Australia need to build 5,000 MW of base load just to maintain our current precarious power position.
          I know this is just stating the obvious and it probably won’t happen like that, but I wanted to suggest the further impact of potential growth in the minimum base load numbers.
          Terence

          10

  • #
    David Maddison

    There is a third pumped hydro project in Australia, the Shoalhaven Scheme, 240MW.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoalhaven_Scheme

    I wrote an article on pumped hydro in the Jan 2017 Silicon Chip.
    http://www.siliconchip.com.au/Issue/2017/January/Pumped+Storage+Hydroelectricity?res=nonflash

    Pumped hydro is good for peak power generation but nothing else.

    93

  • #
    David Maddison

    The implausibility of pumped hydro storage to make the USA fully “renewable” is examined here.

    https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/11/pump-up-the-storage/

    They have many more mountainous sites than we do so it is likely to be more implausible here.

    153

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Australia would have many Low Head Hydro Power possibilities reducing the viability of capacity factors to that of expensive poor performing wind or solar, also consider any green approved hydro site will have so many operational restrictions diesel generation would be the only way anything gets pumped, well that and the taxpayer.

      121

      • #
        David Maddison

        Won’t that be bizarre using diesel (or coal) to pump water up the hill!

        You’ll get less energy than if you used fossil fuel to make the electricity in the first place. Suppose the pumping efficiency was 87% and the same efficiency applied to generation, you would end up with less than 76% of the original energy.

        62

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      This bit is telling:

      “All That Concrete!

      These dam walls will require a lot of concrete. A survey of dam construction suggests that the base thickness is approximately 65–90% the height of the dam. Picking 75% and tapering to a cusp, our foregoing geometry requires a concrete volume 25% larger than h³, where h is the dam height. For our 250 m set of dams, we need 19 million cubic meters of concrete apiece. Each dam then contains as much concrete as exists in the Three Gorges and Grand Coulee dams combined! And this is the “small” version of our dams. And we need over 2,500 of them. I’m just sayin’.

      At an energy cost of 2.5 GJ per ton of concrete, and a density of 2.4 tons per cubic meter, we end up needing 32 billion kWh of energy per dam, and 90 trillion kWh total. This over 250 times the amount of energy impounded by the dams, and represents three years of the total energy appetite of the U.S. today.”

      182

  • #
    el gordo

    Greenland increasing mass balance a regional cooling signal.

    https://realclimatescience.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Image740_shadow.png

    102

    • #
      el gordo

      A regional cooling signal in Edmonton disguised as global warming.

      ‘Less than two weeks after the hottest day of 2017 in Edmonton, the Capital Region received a fresh blanket of snow on Tuesday morning.

      ‘Areas to the west of Edmonton were the first to see the snow, as it moved its way into the city later Tuesday morning.

      ‘The snow comes less than two weeks after Edmonton broke a 108-year-old temperature record on Sept. 7, hitting 32.2 C. The city also broke a temperature record on Sept. 11, hitting 29 C.’

      World News

      81

    • #
      theRealUniverse

      A while ago someone on Iceagenow did a survey on search for ‘record cold’ vs ‘record hot’ (temps) and found record cold won hands down.
      But the warming continues….yawn

      132

      • #
        jorgekafkazar

        Numbers of records broken is not a very good measure of relative cooling vs heating because the mechanisms of record attainment for each are vastly different. It’s akin to counting dwarves and baskeball players in an attempt to tell whether the population is getting shorter or taller.

        71

        • #
          FarmerDoug2

          “…mechanisms of record attainment…” Sorry. My tracking went astray there for a bit.
          Doug

          30

        • #
          el gordo

          ‘Numbers of records broken is not a very good measure of relative cooling vs heating …’

          But the seesaw effect of hot records being broken, quickly followed by freezing conditions, is significant.

          In the Southern Hemisphere the blocking high pressure is a cooling signal and I forecast a cool wet spring in south east Australia.

          10

  • #
    Len

    I have written about medical practitioners, dentists and vets calling themselves “doctors” when they actually have only passed their bachelor degree level. Recently, I noticed a vet in WA reportingly doing post doctoral research. My take on this is she was probably doing what is normally referred to as a post graduate diploma. Below a Masters and much lower than a proper doctorate. Such is the dumbing down from the top these days.

    82

    • #
      David Maddison

      I agree Len. Having gone to the effort of having got myself a proper doctoral degree myself (PhD in the “hard” sciences, physics) it does bother me a little that someone with a bachelor degree is allowed to call themselves “doctor” along with the implied learning that comes with that. Even most of my many GP friends are embarrassed by their title. Many GP’s even believe in CAGW and some are even against vaccination.

      83

      • #
        Len

        Thanks David for the supporting comments. One of the original West Coast Eagles “Doctors” was Ken Fitch. Ken Fitch had a proper MD. Doctor of Medicine from UWA. In the Sports Medicine fraternity he was always referred to as Ken Fitch. Ken did his MBBS in Adelaide as there was no medical faculty in WA at the time (1955). He did his MD at the UWA and the date of acceptance was 1975. Ken was not upset when people did not refer him to as Doctor Fitch. He is now an Emeritus Professor at the UWA.

        60

      • #
        joseph

        “Many GP’s even believe in CAGW and some are even against vaccination.”‘

        It’s certainly going to be very difficult for them when the CAGW vaccine is mandated.

        30

    • #
      Analitik

      There really needs to be another term for those who have earned a doctorate vs those involved in the health industry (MDs and dentists). Also, those with liberal arts PhD’s need to be separated from those who have earned a doctorate in a quantitative field. But even then, if you look at the climate “science” field, a doctorate is no guarantee of dispassionate, unbiased view.

      BTW Medicine and dentistry are long, hard degrees and require continual updating to continue practicing in these professions so sneering at these health qualification is unwarranted IMO. MDs who don’t support vaccination are a TINY minority.

      40

  • #
  • #
    Graeme No.3

    O/T as usual, but it should get posted providing az isn’t the moderator (I don’t think he has much of a sense of humour, possibly because of all those posts from trolls).
    It is probably illegal to distribute this, but why not?
    Getting one’s rites

    It’s just a matter of time…………

    GOOD MORNING. WE WANT TO APPLY FOR A MARRIAGE LICENSE.”
    “Names?”, said the clerk.
    “Tim and Jim Jones.”
    “Jones? Are you related? I see a resemblance.”
    “Yes, we’re brothers.”
    “Brothers? You can’t get married.”
    “Why not? Aren’t you giving marriage licenses to same gender couples?”
    “Yes, thousands. But we haven’t had any siblings. That’s incest!”
    “Incest?” No, we are not gay.”
    “Not gay? Then why do you want to get married?”
    “For the financial benefits, of course. And we do love each other.
    Besides, we don’t have any other prospects.”
    “But we’re issuing marriage licenses to gay and lesbian couples who’ve claim they’d been denied equal protection under law.
    If you are not gay, you can get married to a woman.”
    “Wait a minute. A gay man has the same right to marry a woman as I have.
    But just because I’m straight doesn’t mean I want to marry a woman. I want to marry Jim.”
    “And I want to marry Tim, Are you going to discriminate against us just because we are not gay?”
    “All right, all right. I’ll give you your license. Next.”

    “Hi. We are here to get married.”
    “Names?”
    “John Smith, Jane James, Robert Green, and June Johnson.”
    “Who wants to marry whom?”
    “We all want to marry each other.”
    “But there are four of you!”
    “That’s right. You see, we’re all bisexual. I love Jane and Robert, Jane loves me and June, June loves Robert and Jane, and Robert loves June and me. All of us getting married together is the only way that we can express our sexual preferences in a marital relationship.”
    “But we’ve only been granting licenses to gay and lesbian couples.”
    “So you’re discriminating against bisexuals!”
    “No, it’s just that, well, the traditional idea of marriage is that it’s just for couples.”
    “Since when are you standing on tradition?”
    “Well, I mean, you have to draw the line somewhere.”
    “Who says? There’s no logical reason to limit marriage to couples. The more the better.
    Besides, we demand our rights!
    The mayor says the constitution guarantees equal protection under the law.
    Give us a marriage license!”
    “All right, all right. Next.”

    “Hello, I’d like a marriage license.”
    “In what names?”
    “David Anderson.”
    “And the other man?”
    “That’s all. I want to marry myself.”
    “Marry yourself? What do you mean?”
    “Well, my psychiatrist says I have a dual personality, so I want to marry the two together.
    Maybe I can file a joint income-tax return.”
    “That does it! I quit! You people are making a mockery of marriage!”…………..

    [AZ does too have a sense of humor. ;-) ] AZ

    273

    • #
      wert

      It does not end there. You can define marriage as a set of intransitive binary relations. so David can be married to an unmarried person. And why requiring the set is non-empty?

      A generic marriage is an empty set of directed relations in HxH. Comes handy when needing a dormant marriage to populate with new directed relations.

      50

    • #
      James Murphy

      People do marry themselves – there are wedding planning services for such events. I’m not sure what happens if they later want a divorce though…

      60

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        I’m not sure what happens if they later want a divorce though…

        That is quite a problem. But I’m going to guess that when you want to divorce yourself the wisdom of King Solomon requires that you cut the divorcing person in half and give half to each woman who acted to break up the marriage. ;-)

        I’m not sure whether you cut crosswise or lengthwise though. But either way it makes at least as much sense as marrying yourself.

        Life is so complicated these days.

        50

    • #
      jorgekafkazar

      “Mawwiage…”

      60

    • #
      mikewaite

      My wife called up asking what was that funny noise from the office .
      I said that it was me laughing . Have not done that for ages so no wonder she was worried .

      80

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Just thinking ahead… …But I wonder how long it will be before someone brings a potted plant to the counter and says, “I want to marry my beautiful orchid.”

      I can picture the argument now….

      No! It’s not fit for a family blog.

      31

  • #
    Sceptical Sam

    Oh! A double bunger.

    I just clicked a green thumb and got two.

    Thanks AZ.

    61

  • #
    pat

    don’t think the Green Party results have changed, as yet, tho there are some votes still to be counted:

    23 Sept: RadioNewZealand: Bill in the lead, but Winston holds the balance
    With 99.2 percent of the vote counted by midnight, excluding special votes, National had 46.0 percent of the vote, with Labour on 35.8 percent and the Green Party on 5.8 percent…
    The Greens have taken a hit, however. They would only have seven MPs compared to 14 in the last Parliament based on the results so far…
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/340081/bill-in-the-lead-but-winston-holds-the-balance

    90

  • #
    pat

    a little tale.

    the guy behind the SSM Yes Vote text message sent to people’s mobile phones is Alex Greenwich (Wikipedia: Greenwich is the member of the New South Wales Legislative Assembly seat of Sydney since the 2012 Sydney by-election. He ran as an independent and was backed by his predecessor, independent Clover Moore.) not that ABC tells you any of this in their coverage:

    24 Sept: ABC: SSM: Tanya Plibersek defends Yes campaign after thousands receive same-sex marriage texts
    By political reporter Henry Belot
    Alex Greenwich, co-chair of Australian Marriage Equality, said the text messages were sent using a “technology platform” used by political parties during elections campaigns for years.
    Mr Greenwich said the campaign was trying to reach millions of Australians and would be matched with more traditional campaigning…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-24/yes-campaign-thousands-receive-same-sex-marriage-texts/8979030

    Alex is big on CAGW:

    Alex Greenwich, Independent Member for Sydney: Climate Change
    (Matter of Public Importance, 6 August 2014, Legislative Assembly, NSW Parliament)
    Around the world there have been floods, typhoons and cyclones. An article in the November issue of the New England Journal of Medicine titled “Natural Disasters, Armed Conflict, and Public Health” stated there were three times as many natural disasters in 2000 to 2009 than there were in 1980 to 1989, with climate accounting for nearly 80 per cent of the increase and about 217 million people affected each year since 1990. Since 1850 average temperatures have risen by 0.8 degrees Celsius and each of the last three decades has been warmer at the earth’s surface than any preceding decade since 1850. There is scientific consensus that the changing climate is caused by human induced greenhouse gas emissions—a view shared by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and the CSIRO. The joint CSIRO and Australian Bureau of Meteorology paper titled “State of the Climate 2012″ reported rising sea levels and the highest concentrations of carbon dioxide in 800,000 years…

    We should close the most polluting power plants immediately and plan for the long-term replacement of coal-fired power with greener renewable power…ETC
    http://www.alexgreenwich.com/climate_change

    on FB, it seems Greenwich & friends are now ready to go door-knocking! hundreds are letting him know how they feel about that and the text message:

    Facebook: Alex Greenwich
    Let the door knocking begin!
    View all 271 comments
    https://www.facebook.com/alexgreenwich/

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      James Murphy

      Unfortunately, when people like Alex Greenwich say “door knocking”, they make me think of the knock on the door which, for so many people who dared to think, or act against the whims of their “leader”, preceded a one-way ride in an unmarked truck to an undisclosed location.

      Talk about zero tolerance policies…

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    pat

    this is a followup to comment in moderation.

    from PickeringPost comments:

    This is a domain name search of the URL which has been spitting out all the vote yes non-reply text messages. It was registered by someone named ADAM KNOBEL who seems to have taken down his twitter account.
    (NO NEED TO POST THE DETAILS AS I’M ONLY INTERESTED IN KNOBEL)

    also in the comments was this link:

    Centre for Australian Progress: Speakers & Co-Chairs
    includes ADAM KNOBEL, Digital Campaign Director, The Equality Campaign / Australian Marriage Equality
    (ABC CREDITED IN A NUMBER OF BIOS, PLUS PLENT OF CAGW CONNECTIONS, GETUP ETC)
    AT BOTTOM: PRINCIPAL PARTNER, MAJOR PARTNERS, PARTNERS, INCL THE GUARDIAN, FUTURE SUPER, ETC.
    http://progress2017.org.au/speakers/

    CLICK “CLIMATE CHANGE” AT TOP OF PAGE TO ISOLATE THE CAGW BIOS:

    Centre for Australian Progress: Speakers & co-Chairs – Climate Change
    includes
    co-chair Kelly O’Shanassy, CEO, Australian Conservation Foundation
    Amanda McKenzie, CEO, Climate Council
    Tim Hollo, Executive Director, Green Institute and CEO Green Music Australia
    Anna Rose, Author and Campaigner
    Anine Cummins, #StopAdani organiser, 350.org
    Kelly Mackenzie, Communications Director, Australian Youth Climate Coalition
    John Hepburn, Executive Director, The Sunrise Project…ETC

    Experts-in-Residence
    We’re so excited to have Michael Whitney and Nicole Aro joining us from the US as our international Experts-in-Residence for 2017.
    Michael Whitney is best known as the Digital Fundraising Manager for Bernie Sanders’ campaign in 2016, having raised more $218 million online, revolutionising small dollar donations at a massive scale…
    Nicole Aro led the Digital Strategies team at the AFL-CIO, America’s largest labor federation…
    And on Obama’s 2008 campaign, she directed the national phonebank Get Out the Vote program after working in a number of other field and digital roles…

    About Us: Big issues and choices are facing us as Australians – from how we tackle climate change and deal with an ageing population, to the challenges of securing our economy, protecting human rights and reversing growing inequality…
    Our ambitious 5-year plan is to:
    Support a cohort of 1,000 civic leaders with the skills, networks and courage to win on their issues…
    We receive no government funding, and are primarily reliant on our event and training income to cover our costs. We also receive some core support from diverse health, environment and aid groups; unions; and from public donations

    FOUND THIS ONINE, BUT CAN’T POST THE URL, BUT EASY TO FIND FROM HEADLINE:

    Purves Environmental Foundation Annual Review 2016
    The PEF provided funds for Progress Fellowship in 2015-2016, a training program in campaigning and advocacy for mid to senior community leaders who are fighting for the environment, human rights, and social justice. The PEF gift enabled Australian Progress expand its program to Brisbane and Perth in addition to Sydney and Melbourne. It also held two communications focused programs, and launched an Alumni program. 113 new fellows completed the program, which included 32 fellows with primary interest in climate change, the environment and/or other sustainability issues…

    AEGN (Australian Environmental Grantmakers Network): The Purves Environmental Fund
    Robert Purves AM, Director
    Robert Purves AM is a businessman, environmentalist and founder of The Purves Environmental Fund. Before establishing the Fund in 2004 Robert chaired a large publically listed health care company. Robert plays a key role in a wide range of organisations – he is the current President of WWF Australia, a founding member of the Wentworth Group of Concerned Scientists, a Director of Earth Hour Global, a Director of the Climate Council, a Patron of the Lizard Island Research Station and a Governor of the Australian Youth Climate Coalition…

    We are particularly interested in the capacity building of NGOs, for example we gave WWF in New Zealand funds to do a big marketing campaign to grow their supporter base. Today they have about 10,000 supporters which gives them about $3M per annum to use to undertake projects to help the environment.
    We support the AYCC [Australian Youth Climate Coalition] with matched grants, matching their fund-raising dollar for dollar. Youth has an extremely strong voice when it comes to climate change because it’s probably impacting more on their lifetime more than ours.
    The various Conservation Councils in Australia play a really strong role too…

    A real standout project for us was Tim Flannery’s book, ‘The Weather Makers’. Who would have thought that supporting one of Australia’s leading scientists to travel the world for 6 months would lead to a seminal book that would influence so many people globally. I don’t think many Australians realize how significant ‘The Weather Makers’ was globally. It achieved real leverage in the climate change debate…
    https://www.aegn.org.au/grantmakers/giving-green-stories/the-purves-environmental-fund/

    can’t find further funder details for Centre for Australian Progress, but can well imagine who might be included.

    such a smug bunch of people, who really care about the “climate”, and who want to save poor people in developing countries by forcing them to leapfrog fossil fuels!

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    Dave in the States

    In conversation with warmists, I have come to the realization that most (should I guess 97%) don’t know or understand the basic hypothesis and theories behind what the espouse. They don’t have a clue. I don’t bail them out by explaining it to them, at least not right way, but let them fumble around trying to teach me the errors of my ways for awhile.

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    Ruairi

    Research to ‘save the planet’ isn’t fun,
    Compared to fortnight junkets in the sun.

    Renewables had subsidies galore,
    Now most Australians want to pay no more.

    Like optimums, the pessimums are real,
    And show the failure of the Paris deal.

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    John Smith

    So it’s safe to say in polite company that there’s been a warming ‘hiatus’ now, eh?
    Jeez, that was like pulling teeth.
    I’m exhausted.
    I was never good at polite company anyways.
    I enjoy being right too much.
    It’s the reason I read climate blogs.
    Good company here.
    Thanks Jo.

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    The urgent matter of less reliable and affordable energy affects older people in other ways than just high prices. I am blind in one eye and have very poor vision in the other even with glasses. Also, I am not getting any younger.

    The elderly and frail are, these days, urged to remain living in their own homes as long as possible. Outside sourced aged care groups are available to help in several ways around the home to enable living at home at very low rates.

    But, for the elderly and those with poor sight good lighting is essential. All the caring agencies first look at places where falls can be prevented. Bathrooms, etc, are fitted with hold rails. But none of that is of much use if the elderly or pensioners are striving to save power by using the least possible lighting. Going from room to room used to be easy and cheap by leaving the lights on in several rooms.

    Now, these people have to grope around in the dark at times. Falls are more likely in some cases. Imagine an 85 year old grandmother feeling the need to turn off a TV at the wall socket at the skirting board because she has read that the ready light on the TV uses, albeit small, amount of power.

    In short, falls and lighting restrictions are just as much a problem as the awful cases where people cannot use heaters or A/Cs to warm or cool themselves just because renewables are helping to cause rises in power prices.

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  • #

    On the 21st Jo had a post “Latest, belated admission the models were “too hot” is all PR and politics, nothing to do with science
    I have taken a detailed look at the Nature Geoscience paper. When looking at mitigation policy to constrain warming to 1.5°C there are opposite problems. If ECS is too high (e.g. ECS = 3°C) there is already sufficient warming in the pipeline (or hidden in the oceans) to make it inevitable. If it is too low, then it falls below the IPCC’s range of 1.5°C to 4.5°C for a doubling of CO2. The paper thus pushes the variables to the very boundaries of the IPCC’s range.

    - Assumed that all the warming since 1870 is caused by anthropogenic GHG emissions when there is not even a valid statistical test that confirms even half the warming was from this source.

    - Largely ignored any hidden heat or other long-term response to rises in GHGs. 

    - Ignored the divergence between model predictions and actual temperature anomalies since around the turn of the century. This has two consequences. First, the evidence appears to strongly contradict the belief that humans are a major source of global warming and by implication dangerous climate change. Second, if it does not contradict the theory, suggests the amount of warming in the pipeline consequential on human GHG emissions has massively increased. Thus the 1.5°C warming could be breached anyway.

    - Made ECS as low as possible in the long-standing 1.5°C to 4.5°C range. Even assuming ECS is at the mid-point of the range for policy (as the IPCC has done in all its reports) means that warming will breach the 1.5°C level without any further emissions. 

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    doubtingdave

    its such a shame , that this blog that ment so much to me in the past , has ended up to be such a disappointment , such a waste of time , because you only want to addeare to the scientific method when it suits you

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      doubtingdave

      IAN, IDEOLOGY HAS GONE ON FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS ITS NOT NEW ,IT DID NOT START WITH SOCIALISM IN VICTORIAM TIMES , RELIGION IS A IDEOLOGICAL CONCEPT TO , WHAT DO YOU NOT GET ABOUT THAT

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    doubtingdave

    THERE WAS A TIME WHEN ON SCEPTICAL BLOGS WE WHERE ENCOURAGED TO STICK TO THE SO CALLED SCIENTIFIFIC METHOD , WE DIDNT WANT THE ALARMIST TO SEE US AS CONSPIRASY THEORISTS , BUT WE NOW KNOW THAT IT IS A CONSPIRICY THEORY , THEY WANT TO USE THERE SUEDO SCIENCE TO HELP CREATE A NEW FEUDAL SYSTEM , WHY TRY TO SEE SCIENCE WHEN WE ALL SEE A NEW RELIGION

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      Sceptical Sam

      Are you deaf Dave?

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      abt

      Dave,
      I suggest you concentrate on spelling and grammar before you tackle scientific method. I think you mean “their pseudo”, not “there suedo”. Also, could you please turn off your caps lock. All caps makes it even harder to read your rubbish.

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    David Maddison

    Unencumbered by global warming madness and the imminent meltdown of the Arctic ice cap, Russia is building three huge nuclear powered ice breakers.

    They probably understand that the world is actually cooling, not warming.

    https://www.rt.com/document/59c4f29ffc7e9379508b4567/amp/404227-russia-worlds-biggest-icebreaker

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      Dennis

      I understand that Russian scientists were among the first to detect a new Maunder Minimum developing, as was featured in Time Magazine 1975 or 1976.

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    Dennis

    Do you wonder at times who the people are behind the scenes, political agendas – climate change, etc., other than the politicians?

    I discovered a list who who’s Who in Australia and even GetUp staffers are among them;

    http://progress2017.org.au/speakers/

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    David Maddison

    Pumped storage calculations

    For those interested, here is the basic equation for hydro power generation as per my article in the Jan 2017 Silicon Chip magazine.

    In calculating the power that can be generated by any hydroelectric project the two main numerical considerations are the water flow that can be directed into the turbine/alternator and the head of the water.

    These items scale linearly so doubling of either the flow or head will result in doubling of the power that can be produced.

    The power produced is given by the equation:

    power (watts) = head (metres) x flow (litres per second) x gravity (9.8 metres per second squared) x effciency factor

    Let’s do a real-world calculation for the Tumut 3 power station discussed above. We will consider the power produced from discharging the water and disregard losses from initially pumping it into the upper reservoir. It has a head height of 155m and a flow rate of 1,133,000 litres per second (prior to the upgrade).

    Without considering the efficiency factor, this yields 1721MW of power generation. Note that before the upgrade it had a quoted power output of 1500MW so this implies an efficiency of 87%.
    When doing calculations for pumped schemes consider that there is an efficiency loss in both directions.

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    David Maddison

    Now that the world has entered its next cooling stage due to reduced solar output I am concerned that the cooling signal will be missed by the various climate agencies as they continue to alter data to “prove” globull warming.

    Periods of natural global warming were always good for mankind but cooling has always been bad. The Left try to hide that information such as by their renaming of the warm Medieval Climate Optimum to the Medieval Climactic Anomoly thus removing reference to warm being a climate optimum.

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      James Bradley

      Dave,

      They can’t miss it now because they’ve manipulated the data of the last hundred years to show how fast the planet has warmed in the last 30 years – any small decrease in temp minima will be magnified by the historical data tampering and stick out like dog’s proverbials – wait for the the peer reviewed nonsense explaining ‘The Predicted Cooling Phase of Global Warming’ – it will be just hilarious.

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    doubtingdave

    THINK ON THIS , WHEN THE FORTH CENTURY EMPOROR CONSTANTINE INVITED NONE CHRISTIANS TO THE COUNCILS OF NICEA , TO HELP DECIDE WHAT WENT INTO THE NEW TESTAMENT , WHY IS THAT ANY DIFFERENT FROM INIVITING DIFFERENT FAITHS FROM THE MODERN WORLD TO PARIS , AS A CHRISTAIN CAN YOU NOT SAY YOU BELEIVE IN STEWARDSHIP OF THE Earth , and those leaders of climate science faith can say we do to , get an understanding of TYPOLOGY and everything will become clear , AS LONG AS YOU FOLLOW THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD

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    Mark M

    A La Nina, a tropical eruption of a big volcano, and a quiet sun.
    A triple whammy.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-25/eruption-imminent-on-mount-agung-as-people-race-for-shelter/8980100

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    Mark M

    An extraordinary cave animal found in Eastern Turkmenistan

    A remote cave in Eastern Turkmenistan was found to shelter a marvelous cave-adapted inhabitant that turned out to represent a species and genus new to science.
    This new troglodyte is the first of its order from Central Asia and the first strictly subterranean terrestrial creature recorded in the country.

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/09/170921090259.htm

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      el gordo

      The real issue is that, fundamentally, they don’t believe climate change is real or that humans have adversely affected the planet.’

      That’s a lie, CO2 does not cause global warming.

      ‘Having spent so long denying science and rejecting the overwhelming body of evidence, they’re now being forced to ignore economics; that renewables have become a cheaper longer term power source.’

      Noble cause corruption has seen the ruination of climate science, reduced to a millenarian religion with the Klimatariat acting as high priests.

      ‘Coal is the future, they argue.’

      Yes indeed.

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    David Maddison

    I am sick of hearing about people “transitioning” from one gender to another. Gender is a biological construct and you are born with genetics and hardware of either one or another (noting extremely rare anomalies such as androgen insensitivity syndrome). A woman cannot change into a man and visa versa.

    The inclination toward transgenderism is an abnormal psychiatric condition called gender dysphoria that needs proper care and treatment. It is not something to be “embraced and celebrated”. It is an abnormal psychiatric condition, a mental illness.

    The move to normalise this mental disorder is quite concerning and even most miltaries of the West, e.g. Australia, US and UK accept such people and even pay for their “gender reassignment” surgery even though they reject people with much lesser mental disorders (noting that Trump said he would stop transgenders going into the military although it’s not clear what will happen to those already there).

    There is a good video on this phenomenon at https://youtu.be/aDAU3SPYFsA

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      KinkyKeith

      Hi David

      I do agree with the thrust of your comment; the use of gender ambiguity has gone beyond the bounds of reason and has become a weapon to hit society with.

      A friend of mine transitioned in his fifties and putting aside the basic gender issue I felt that there was a large element of him using the change to put up a barrier that protected him.

      Having said that there is a large issue regarding public understanding of what this business is all about.

      Unfortunately due to interruptions to the normal transitioning processes undergone by the fetus over the 9 months of growth in the womb there are people who have bodies and brains mismatched and a range of variations of same.

      Broadly speaking it is possible to be born as a female, ie female body and yet have a “male” brain.

      Conversely it may be that you have a male body but have a brain wired as female.

      Society needs to recognise in many cases a very definite physiological irregularity that can cause the person significant heartache.

      In many cultures this phenomenon is known and accepted but in Western societies the issue has been pushed underground for too long and it has now exploded into a nasty slanging match between two opposing sides.

      We can do better but at the moment politics is messing up this issue the way it does with all important matters.

      KK

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        Hat Rack

        IIRC it is estimated that something like 50% of gender dysphorics take their own lives. As the father of someone who has gone right through the whole process, including gender re-assignment, I wake up every day and think how lucky I am to still have her. Keith’s explanation of body and brain mismatch is quite good but I disagree with David. I think gender dysphoria is a cause of mental problems rather than being a “mental disorder” itself.

        As a footnote, until my family was affected I had no idea how common the condition was. It has been an education. My daughter is now 44 yrs old, has her own little family and is happy.

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          KinkyKeith

          It’s good to hear that it’s worked out O.K. in your case.

          When recently in Vietnam I was in the centre mall area where hundreds of people gather to pass the time on the weekends.

          One particular group of about 15 people appeared to be in the gender ambiguous group. They appeared quite happy and relaxed and untroubled.

          My wife had once mentioned that people in this situation were referred to as being “people who were attracted to people of the same sex”.

          I was impressed to hear that because it was a rather gentle and respectful definition.

          As I said earlier, in the West we have a long way to go before we start seeing a lot of things more clearly.

          KK

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      James Bradley

      Until it is voiced by a minority agenda and embraced by a desperate government garnering support by attempting to force the majority into believing it is normal.

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    Annie

    We have a friend who went through the same KK. I do believe that ‘Mother Nature’ mucks up at times and it has to be dealt with as best suits the particular circumstances.
    What does worry me is the way young children are being encouraged to question what they are. This is wrong to my way of thinking. Apart from anything else, it seems as if we standard males and females are being made to feel that we aren’t normal! Well, as my husband and I are near to celebrating our 50th wedding anniversary we intend to celebrate that with our friends and family. Pop the champagne corks!

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      Annie

      This was supposed to be in answer to KK at #33.1.
      My tablet seized up for a while.

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      KinkyKeith

      Congratulations Annie.

      One of the things that makes me so unhappy about the world is the type of abuse that the people with gender irregularities have been subjected to by those posing as supporters.

      The histrionic behaviour of the rainbow movement most likely powered by professional agitators who are not gender irregular is just another step on the path of destroying the functioning of government.

      The nominal cause being “defended” is being damaged as we, as a community, are no closer to collectively understanding the issue and being able to develop a sensible caring solution.

      Chaos is the goal, and of course, lots and lots of crowd funding.

      KK

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    toorightmate

    ABC’s Verrender tells us on their news site that wind and solar are now vastly cheaper than coal.
    What a d*ckhead. Right up there with Kohler.

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      Andrew McRae

      Yep, soon as I saw that I checked JoNova to see if anyone else had mentioned it.
      Pretty provocative stuff. I was a bit disappointed with how many of his claims I did not know the antidote for, so it probably deserves an airing on this blog… in the tradition of skeptical inquiry of course. Any takers?

      I’ll say one thing about one of his weakest arguments (although it’s also one of the least important to his thesis). When introducing his claim that renewables ruinables are the cheapest power he describes Goldman Sachs as “hardly a standard bearer for radical ideology”, as though this means they are totally unbiased on the issue of renewables!

      I recall GS making the bold statement on their own web site that “we make the market in carbon trading for Europe” or words to that effect. The last thing they want to do is forego all the brokerage fees for carbon trading, which is pretty close to getting money for nothing.
      Then factor in the GFC, where GS was one of the players telling their customers that potfolios were good while at same time planning to write them down. You’ll love the source I found for that last statement… none other than Their ABC! http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2011/s3191452.htm
      Then the TARP bailouts made sure that GS didn’t have pay for their own mistakes. Why would they be under pressure to be accurate on renewables now?

      Verrender’s star witness for sustainability is a bank that had to be bailed out!

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        KinkyKeith

        That’s a good outline of why our PM likes being PM.
        Commissions.
        That’s why every time I see him saying sweet nothings on TV I feel like throwing up.

        Control media output and you’ve won.

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    David Maddison

    Latest garbage from Their ABC (Australia) is that American Football is a game played mainly by black people for the benefit of white people therefore there is a “racial element”. I think they’re the ones making into a racial issue. (Reference ABC TV News channel, Melbourne, 1240pm today.)

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    David Maddison

    It is simply beyond comprehension that Merkel won a fourth term in Germany. What were they thinking?

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      James Bradley

      Dave,

      As difficult as it is to believe the German people are still suffering the stigma of the 2nd World War and will probably not vote in sufficient enough numbers to elect a right wing party for a little while longer.

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        AndyG55

        But Merkel is still just a socialist totalitarian…

        …. just like the bloke during the second world war was.

        The Germans have learnt nothing.. they are still the same gullible people.

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    Peter C

    Central Victorian Greenhouse Alliance
    http://cvga.org.au/

    Another total waste of ratepayers money and dedicated to fast tracking harmful green policies.

    I emailed the CEO (Rob Law)

    I asked him why the Ballarat Solar park is lying derelict.
    I get a reply that he is on parenting leave!

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    It’s amazing what politicians can get away with when they KNOW that the public has no understanding of the subject in question.

    Three or four things niggled away at me in the time since I made that Submission to the Queensland Government on their 50% Renewables by 2030 thing, and while somewhat related, it’s taken a while to string them together.

    When I made the submission, all 14 pages of it, I based it solely on the Government’s own data. At the start of doing the task, I thought that maybe they might actually try to do it. At the end of the task, I knew full and well that there was absolutely no chance whatsoever that they could do it, so much so that my very last sentence I wrote in the conclusions said this:

    If I might close on a personal note here, in 2030, I will be in my late 70’s. I most probably will have long forgotten this submission, as will perhaps everyone on the panel, and even everyone in Queensland. However, I can guarantee you this. In 2030 Queensland will not have 50% of its power sourced from Renewable power, no matter who says it is achievable.

    Then, still curious, I attended the (very carefully controlled) meeting here in Rockhampton, and the two times I made to comment, I was shut down. After that meeting finished, I asked the Panel Member if they read my submission, only to be told, that they did not read any submissions personally (any member of the panel) and were just there to implement the Government proposal. During the meeting, one question I asked pointed out an anomaly in their own findings, from one of the images on the screen projection. He immediately realised the glaring error, looked dumbfounded for a few seconds, gave me a pointed somewhat filthy look as I just smiled (knowingly, gotcha!) and then looked around the room quickly, not that one single person had the slightest idea what was happening. He then waffled a reply that mentioned NSW, which left me curious for a second, as if to say, why would he say that, and then the girl at the side controlling the thing shut it down immediately and they moved on.

    It was odd, and I just passed it off as something to say in a moment of being caught out.

    So, one of the main findings of the Panel was that they were not going to shut down any coal fired plants by 2030, and when I tried to mention that, I was told that I had already had my ‘go’ by the woman at the side. (They knew)

    So, now many Months since the findings were handed to the Premier, things just roll along.

    I have found that they are basing it all on Nameplate, as that percentage is always (considerably) lower when it comes to coal fired power, and also using Nameplate for rooftop solar which (evidently) is now the LARGEST power generator in Queensland. (Yeah! Of course it is!!!)

    So, now I’m doing this Base Load thing, and I have noticed that Queensland regularly supplies (24/7/365) 1000 to 1100MW into NSW, ALL of it coal fired power.

    So, I tracked back to my Submission, based on their own figures, and I have found that they are not including that total supplied into NSW in any of their data. It doesn’t even get a mention at all. All they use is what is consumed in Queensland. They also mention that Queensland only uses 72% coal fired power in its data, and that figure ACTUALLY is closer to 90% PLUS, and in reality, closer to 95%, because the remainder, coming from gas fired plants and some small Hydro in the North is from small to tiny plants supplying local out of the way areas, as Queensland is so decentralised. Virtually all of Queensland South of Mackay is supplied by ONLY coal fired power.

    With the supply into NSW, then coal fired power supplies 115 to 125% of the total power being consumed in Queensland.

    It would seem that because that power is being consumed in NSW, then it is that State which owns the power, and hence the CO2 emissions, no matter that it is being generated and emitted within the State of Queensland.

    This has to be the biggest con of all, that they can get away with this ….. and all because the general populace has not even the tiniest understanding of what is happening.

    I’m glad I actually know it now, not that there’s anything I can do about. I tried that, and got ignored and then shut down.

    No one will ever know, and you know what. They actually know that.

    Tony.

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      Dennis

      The answers are not what answers should be, only the answers they want.

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        OldGreyGuy

        “When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.” “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.” “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that’s all.”

        LEWIS CARROLL (Charles L. Dodgson), Through the Looking-Glass, chapter 6, p. 205 (1934). First published in 1872

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      Peter C

      You are right Tony. They are lying.

      However look at it this way.

      If the Queensland Government can claim that they have 50% renewable electricity (based on nameplate figures and not mentioning any emission related to supply to NSW), when the realty may be say 20% of actual power supplied and consumed, then the catastrophe to consumers and the people of Queensland will not be as bad as it might have been.

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        Peter C

        Especially when the crisis comes and Queensland reserves that extra 25% (that previously went to NSW) for itself!

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    David Maddison

    I wonder if the warmists have any idea that the CO2 emissions from the volcano in Indonesia render insignificant any reductions humans could make by shutting down coal power stations?

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      el gordo

      CO2 and ….

      ‘During the 1963 eruption, vast amounts of sulphur dioxide were injected into the stratosphere. Sulphur dioxide reacts with water vapour to form sulphuric acid, and about 10 million tons accumulated in the stratosphere as a result of the eruption.

      ‘Sulphuric acid droplets can persist for months to years leading to small decreases in global atmospheric temperatures. In the case of the 1963 Agung eruption, the temperature drops were about 0.1-0.4℃.’

      Swellnet

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      Peter C

      According to this article in Forbes magazine;
      https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2017/06/06/how-much-co2-does-a-single-volcano-emit/#7feff8755cbf

      Humans emit 29 billions tons CO2 per year by burning fossil fuel. Volcanoes emit 0.645 billion tons (ie 645 million tons) of CO2. I do not know if their figures are correct. The figure seems suspiciously precise for an estimate, which it is.

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        el gordo

        The cooling effect of sulphur dioxide in the stratosphere is more important, CO2 in the lower atmosphere is of no consequence.

        This will make it hard to see the impact of a quiet sun and with La Nina developing it could take years to sort out.

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        David Maddison

        I wonder if those figures include subsea volcanoes?

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    Dennis

    For the record: The Turnbull Government signed the UN Paris Agreement on 23 April 2016.

    MSM/ABC are claiming it was PM Abbott but his contribution was to agree on “aspirational only” emissions targeting before he was replaced in 2015.

    MSM fails to mention that since the Howard Government agreed to sign the UN Kyoto Agreement Australia is one of the very few nations that has achieved the emissions targets established at the time of signing. And later Rudd Labor ratified that Agreement.

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    Robert Rosicka

    I know it was mentioned somewhere but ABC need to take a chill pill and stay out of US politics , Carl Barron was wrong with his prediction of the US election and his continued weekly dummy spit shows the biased opinions of a lefty chucking a tanty because his team lost .
    Get over it dude , Trumps comment about a Football player taking a knee instead of standing for the national anthem was disrespectful to their flag and all those who have sacrificed to defend it , nothing to do with race except in your tiny mind .
    You probably don’t even realise the player mentioned was white , and yes there are a lot of African Americans playing the game but race is irrelevant as to their intentions .
    They all play the game for the love of it , for the fame and for the money and big money at that , race in football is something in Carl Barron’s head and I think he is just trying to make the most out of a slow day .
    Your opinion is just that , not fact .

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    Dr No

    I think DT has picked one fight too many with his comments about the NFL.
    Slagging off at sportsmen and (sportswomen) is a recipe for another fine mess.
    So sad.

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    Having Greens support Dams finally and getting keen on diesel generators for baseload power shows just what van Alice in Wonderland World we have moved too.

    “When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”
    “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”
    “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be Master—that’s all.”

    2019. Lewis Carroll (1832-98).

    The Greens wish to be Master of All and will do any irrational thing to achieve that. The fact that they can get so many people to believe things that just aren’t so simply indicates the power that they can wield.
    We have solar HW on our house for 33 years and it saves money: we have had solar power on our house for ten years and it doesn’t. There is a difference for you. For a while, we believed the Solar Electricity Hype but time eventually revealed the truth.

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    clipe

    In this paper, we examine the consequences of India’s landmark legislation against child labor, the Child Labor (Prohibition and Regulation) Act of 1986. Using data from employment surveys conducted before and after the ban, and using age restrictions that determined who the ban applied to, we show that child wages decrease and child labor increases after the ban.
    http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2017/09/on-the-road-wit.html

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    Alfred

    I have been checking the snow depth at Spencers Creek for the past few days at:

    http://www.snowyhydro.com.au/our-energy/water/inflows/snow-depths-calculator/

    They usually measure it weekly – but the last reading – 239.7cm – was taken on the 13 September or 13 days ago.

    Any ideas?

    Was the snow above 240cm on 20 September and they don’t want to tell us all?

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    RAH

    If Mt. Agung has a big eruption and the ENSO turns sharply negative as predicted, things are going to get interesting. The alarmists are going to have to pull out all stops to keep telling us that we’re all going to fry and a heck of a lot of the rest of us that live and operate in the real world will be dealing with the effects of a rather cooler than normal period.

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    ren

    The dependence of air circulation on magnetic fields is visible.
    https://www.facebook.com/Sunclimate-719393721599910/

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