JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


Handbooks

The Skeptics Handbook

Think it has been debunked? See here.

The Skeptics Handbook II

Climate Money Paper


Advertising

micropace


GoldNerds

The nerds have the numbers on precious metals investments on the ASX



Archives

Books

Jo Nova speaks: “How to destroy a perfectly good electricity grid in three easy steps. Weds 20th Sept in Perth

How many solar panels does it take to stop floods and droughts in Australia?

The science of managing the weather with power stations and other modern superstitions.

Jo Nova, speaking, Perth WA.

 September 20 @ 6:15 pm - 9:00 pm

The Generous Squire,   397 Murray St,  Perth city, Western Australia.

Organized by LibertyWorks:  $20 or Free-for-members. Includes a beer or wine. Early bird discount of $15 ends tomorrow at midnight. Food for sale.

How to destroy a perfectly good electricity grid in three easy steps

The World is watching Australia. Despite being handicapped with abundant resources, we’ve turned ourselves into an international spectacle with rampant blackouts, flying squads of diesel generators, and the highest electricity prices in the world.

An achievement like this does not come easily.

The grand experiment unfolds around us, as the nation discovers why “free” energy isn’t free, why storage is deceptively expensive, yet baseload is deceptively cheap.

 

 

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 9.7/10 (111 votes cast)
Jo Nova speaks: "How to destroy a perfectly good electricity grid in three easy steps. Weds 20th Sept in Perth, 9.7 out of 10 based on 111 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/ycds4jhz

115 comments to Jo Nova speaks: “How to destroy a perfectly good electricity grid in three easy steps. Weds 20th Sept in Perth

  • #

    And yet our media is completely oblivious to all of this: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-13/liddell-coal-station-explained-what-do-agl-turnbull-want/8905308.

    I’d rather we paid the ‘several hundred million dollars’ to keep a coal fired power station running, than pay the $3 billion (and growing) subsidy to renewables.

    530

    • #
      Dennis

      It is marketing genius that wind turbines and solar systems have captured the imaginations of so many Australians.

      And condemns them for their obvious gullibility and lack of common sense.

      450

      • #
        Peter C

        Forgive them Father because they they do not know what they are doing!

        122

        • #
          rapscallion

          Forgive them? Not a chance. They know full well what they are doing.

          351

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            Agreed.

            Lets call it what it is –

            This is modern witchcraft in real terms – hoping to alter the physical reality through sacrificing a whole human population to a pagan “goddess” called “Gaia’.

            “10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead.

            12 Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD; because of these same detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. 13 You must be blameless before the LORD your God.

            14 The nations you will dispossess listen to those who practice sorcery or divination. But as for you, the LORD your God has not permitted you to do so.”
            ( Dueteronomy 18:10-14 )

            62

      • #
        Leonard Lane

        Dennis. I think this situation comes from allowing green and leftist people run the schools, libraries, government agencies, and the government.

        110

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Senator McCarthy from the USA was derided for his stance on restricting Communists from positions of power within govt.

          Unfortunately he was right…..

          92

    • #
      MareeS

      ABC and the other chained-up media aren’t oblivious to this. They are intellectually dead. Uninterested. Bored. Bereft of inquiring minds. May as well stay in bed all day, only getting up for coffee.

      141

    • #
      Just Thinkin'

      Graham Richardson the other night admitted that he had never heard of
      dispatchable power, rolling reserve or base load power until
      a few days ago.

      And, up until a couple of days ago, most of the other pollies
      had NEVER heard of the terms either.

      AND, some probably still haven’t.

      80

  • #
    KinkyKeith

    Thanks for pushing the barrow of Man Made Global Warming uphill again Jo.

    Best wishes for the 20th, wish I could be there.

    This. CAGW thing is a really crazy sociological phenomenon that needs studying.

    No doubt in ten years time there will be university faculties dedicated to the topic of repairing the damage caused by the myth of climate change. And of course law faculty courses in climate change restoration, i.e. How to sue the unipcc for damages.

    We hope. :-)

    KK

    431

    • #
      Mark

      ‘…in ten years time there will be university faculties dedicated to the topic of repairing the damage caused by the myth of climate change.’

      No, they will have moved on to their next millennial invention. The only studies they will do will be to determine why the propaganda failed, and how to fix that leak in their boat.

      240

      • #
        el gordo

        It depends on climate change, if global cooling begins over the next five years then Keith will be proven correct.

        Imagine journalism schools teaching their students how to avoid noble cause corruption.

        130

        • #
          KinkyKeith

          Sadly I think I have to agree with Mark.

          While serious power outages may see a return to sensible power generation it’s unlikely that a leopard could change its spots. There’ll be a new scam.

          181

          • #
            toorightmate

            My money is on gravity – the feedstock for future “”"scientists”"”.

            30

            • #
              Ted O'Brien.

              Yairs. There’s certainly something of value to be discovered there.

              I would be directing a few scientists towards marine aquaculture. I see huge potential in what might be grown and harvested in the ocean. Food, carbon, phosphorus, many other elements also.

              50

              • #
                KinkyKeith

                Now that’s a positive Ted.

                While out driving recently I heard a piece about some fellow who had developed an idea for the sequestration of large amounts of “carbon” in the oceans.

                It was said that, from memory, iron could be taken up by di atomic plankton in the oceans. This would fix a lot of carbon.

                It seemed to have huge potential but was canned by the global warming community I suspect for the reason that it would remove the problem and leave them without a cause.

                I think Toorights idea about gravity is a possible starter because gravity is everywhere and only a relative few understand it.

                Think of the possibilities. The sale of gravity meters would be a good business. People sitting in coffee shops could check out the local pull while chatting and talk about the highest reading they had seen near an iron ore deposit.

                The possibilities are endless for a new round of mindless concern by the U.N. on how to control gravity.

                KK

                61

              • #

                KK, that’s already been tried. When an expensive iron-seeding experiment was being conducted from a boat in 2009, El Nino entered into competition. It picked up millions of tonnes of iron-rich silt from Australia’s interior and sent them to the Pacific on powerful spring westerlies. The people in the boat were probably too busy discussing the next grant to notice that Big Dust was doing what they were doing, but in vastly greater amounts and with vastly greater efficiency.

                Nature also uses glacial melt to do iron seeding. But we mustn’t say anything good about glacial melt.

                90

              • #
                sophocles

                ROTFL. Thank you for that KK. :-)

                Ah well, there are idiots and then there are IDIOTS, aren;t there? That “some fellow” has no originality. Life in the ocean beat him to that idea over a billion years ago. First: 98.8% of the world’s free CO2 is dissolved in the oceans. The foraminifera and the other small life in the ocean haven’t let that huge resource, 52 times the amount in the atmosphere, go to waste, and have all been, and still are, very very busy ” … sequestering large amounts of carbon …” in the oceans already, as Calcium Carbonate.

                What’s more, for the last billion years, at least, they have been doing it faster and in greater volumes then anything the idiot can come up with. Where does the ID-10-T think chalk and limestone come from? It’s all <em"sequestered carbon!"

                40

            • #
              joseph

              The electric universe people have been presenting evidence that leaves leaves very little doubt gravity has already been, and is being, used to steer us away from a better understanding of how things work.

              50

    • #
      Eric Simpson

      Yes, thanks Jo.

      Personally I think you should charge $50 for the opportunity to see you speak in person.

      Not that that’s a better price, but because most of us I’m sure would be willing to pay that to help support you and your efforts here (though I’m not sure if this just supports Liberty Works or who knows). I know that if I were in Perth I would gladly offer the $50+ to be there, but, alas, I’m ~ 9300 miles away.

      80

      • #
        John F. Hultquist

        I’m 9325 miles away, and won’t be going either.
        I’ll just have my glass of beer here and wait to hear how it goes.

        Maybe the Pope will show up and challenge Jo to debate.
        Maybe not.

        70

    • #
      PeterPetrum

      KK, I dont think there arentoo many courses studying, let’s say, the Ozone Hole. That one died a natural death through lack of scare factor. This one will vanish too, in a final scream followed by a whimper, never to be heard of again, except in history books on world economics, perhaps.

      42

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      This. CAGW thing is a really crazy sociological phenomenon that needs studying.

      KK,

      I hope that by “studying” you mean burying under about a million tons of bricks, metric or English tons at your choice. Studying how to fail has never been very productive for anyone. ;-)

      But kidding aside, put it out of everyone’s misery instead of studying it because some of the best advice I ever got was to never study how to fail. Study success, not failure.

      30

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        That advice was from a book on chess. Always set up the problem to study it from the winner’s side of the board. But it applies to anything.

        30

        • #
          KinkyKeith

          Good advice Roy, think positive.

          I’m not much good at chess though. Recently I have found that Sudoku keeps me occupied when I might otherwise turn to drink.

          KK

          20

          • #
            Roy Hogue

            Please do not think I’m good at chess. I once was a fair player but lack of a regular opponent of at least similar capability and now, the desire for activities that are not so mentally intense I fear have put me back at the novice level.

            I still remember how to set up the board but very little beyond that.

            20

  • #
    Robin Pittwood

    Jo, some bits and pieces here might be of interest.
    http://www.kiwithinker.com/category/power-system-stability/
    Good luck with the talk.

    30

  • #
    manalive

    The future looks bleak indeed, the only solution to the energy impasse is an election so that the future ALP/Greens government can wear the inevitable public outrage. It’s unfortunate that didn’t happen last time.
    It will be a harsh lesson for the nation but at least it should clean out the Augean stables of the Liberal Party and it can make a new start.

    171

  • #
    Analitik

    Make sure that the role played by the “semi-scheduled” classification, which gives renewables priority market access without any requirement to provide actual supply, gets properly described along with the LRET. The 2 policies go hand in hand in destroying the economic viability of traditional electrical generation sources and destabilizing the grid.

    The LRET gets almost all the discussion but the “semi-scheduled” classification is just as important in the economics of siphoning dollars from rate and tax payers. Without either one, the renewables would lose money so fast that no one in their right mind would invest in them.

    110

  • #
    Yonniestone

    Jo Nova is one of the few West Aussies making any sense ATM, when a state rich in resources and wealth creation has its own elected leaders breaking election promises for the purpose of a quick buck vs the inevitable reduction of private investment you know the idea of a cheap stable power grid is going straight over the heads of such super critical thinkers.

    211

    • #
      Dennis

      There should be professional negligence for politicians, treble penalty if in cabinet.

      270

      • #
        LevelGaze

        Agreed 1000%

        110

      • #
        Yonniestone

        Coming from Victoria I’ve been horrified over the years at how people can re-elect proven failed parties or politicians, this practice has slowly eroded the quality of candidates to outright careerists with no conscience for any actions that goes against those they pretend to represent, think I’m being harsh? I challenge anyone to attempt to get a meeting with their local rep then if that happens (it won’t) try to get one coherent answer from them that doesn’t involve blaming someone else.

        Now consider the plight of WA in recent years concerning the fair distribution of GST collected among states, the collective mindset of federal and state politicians is to treat the only state that has been allowed to function (shock horror) profitably as a personal money resource for their own self interest failures that further weaken the nation, anyone that believes most major political figures the past couple of decades aren’t really bad people are the ones reelecting the mistakes.

        112

        • #
          Lionell Griffith

          We don’t need better people in government. We need better ideas in the people.

          Without the better ideas, even the best of intentions will lead to a progressively worse situation. The real problems will neither be identified nor understood. Their genuine solution will not be implemented nor recognized even if accidentally implemented. There will be no way to determine when enough is enough. All that will happen is churn and burn. The wealth accumulated over the past several centuries will be consumed in actions based upon “We must DO something!”

          This has been the stuff of the collapse of civilizations since the beginning of civilization.

          140

          • #
            Yonniestone

            Agreed there’s definite patterns in the rise and fall of major civilisations whether it be Social Cycle Theory or Dynastic Cycles I’ll guarantee there was people like us lamenting the apathy of the plebs contributing to their own demise but still the world turned……

            Probably the only new factor in breaking these cycles or at least making the regressions short is advanced technology, regardless of who socially implodes superpowers or developing countries if at least one country retains most of technological know how from the past 50 years there will always be progress in human achievement, consider the first fleet landing in 1788 had abilities of sailing the knowledge of science to navigate and had already developed steam power compared to the locals who hadn’t worked out how to boil water.

            Any number of scenarios can bring about such differences but once the technology genie is out even the basest of people will want the comfort it brings at the very least, the ones that want to reject it haven’t truly experienced the hardships from not having it.

            61

            • #
              Lionell Griffith

              The higher the technology the better the ideas held by the people have to be. Without the proper use of the mind, a technology is no better than a rotting log or a witch’s incantation.

              Keep in mind that it took nearly a thousand years after the fall of the Roman Civilization to discover the ideas of Aristotle. Then the better part of a thousand more to learn how to apply them effectively and achieve the industrial revolution.

              As A. C. Clark said: “Any sufficiently advanced technology will be indistinguishable from magic.” Imagine an iPhone in Salem 1692: “witchcraft, a work of the devil, to the burning stake with ye!” We are not there yet but we are getting uncomfortably close.

              It is the proper use of the mind that is currently being rejected in wholesale quantities. The ideas of individuality, live and let live, association of the willing, and trading value for value are all but gone.
              Such things are being treated as “politically incorrect” and “hate crimes”. Once gone, they are very difficult to get back in a form robust enough to maintain let alone to develop or advance a high technology civilization.

              Working minds created our high technology civilization. Working minds built it. Working minds maintain it. Only working minds can keep it. T

              Faith and Force is being given precedence over Reason and Freedom. Minds that are not free to choose, communicate, and act cannot function. A mind of a brute can only destroy.

              I suggest that we need a lot more than simply a hope and expectation that all will not be lost.

              30

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                “Faith and Force is being given precedence over Reason and Freedom. Minds that are not free to choose, communicate, and act cannot function. A mind of a brute can only destroy.”

                I would suggest that many universities were created by members of faiths to understand better the world God had created.

                However, I take your point in that the CAGW is a faith, not a science.

                CAGW *is* just modern voodoo – publically tearing “heads” off intellectual “chickens” ( sceptics ) to frighten people into submission, scaring children with scary stories about the world ending….having exploding children who dare question the high priests of the modern voodoo in the infamous “10:10″ commercials….

                30

              • #
                Roy Hogue

                The higher the technology the better the ideas held by the people have to be.

                And therein lies the problem. That applies to everyone, not just the leaders. And you and I both know what the average American fills his time with, almost anything but following what their government is doing to them.

                30

        • #
          Dennis

          It has been said that voters remain in their own world most of the time and consider politics to be none of their business, until the hip pocket nerve starts to tingle and gets their attention, as rising electricity prices are doing.

          Apathy is widespread.

          30

      • #
        Mark

        Lol. And who would write the legislation?
        Subsection 65)b)iii), read in conjunction with sections 10 and 14 (and the definitions at s3), with reference to Schedule D would have the happy effect, totally unforeseen I’m sure, of providing a payout of twenty times the annual salary, plus a triple pension for life, and life of all the transgressor’s legitimate and illegitimate children, should a person be found to have contravened the act.

        30

        • #
          Dennis

          It was much easier to talk to the “independent” Tribunal about public service/politician’s remuneration salary increases so that commencing 2007/08, after the Howard Government left office in November 2007, by 2010/11 the Prime Minister was paid more than President Obama, and almost twice as much as Prime Minister Howard was paid in 2006/07.

          With corresponding increases way above the rate of inflation for other politicians and government department employees. After all, it would be too obvious unless all shared in the bonanza.

          And, don’t forget defined benefit superannuation pension entitlements based on earnings, the icing on the cake.

          The first Abbott Government Budget announced May 2014 placed a freeze on salary increases for financial year 2014/15 and since the Tribunal has returned to business as usual in determining increases in line with inflation and market trends.

          10

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      Yes, Yonniestone. Exactly.

      But Karma has its way of evening things out.

      Ironically, just as the newly elected green/left Labor government of Western Australia decides to belt the goldmining businesses in the State with a new mining royalty that will threaten the existence of a number of marginal miners, cost jobs and raise an additional AU$392 million in royalty revenue over the next four years, we read the Western Australian Court of Appeal finds in favour of Barrick Gold’s claim that the government has made an error in its calculation of mining related stamp duty charges.

      You’ve just got to love this.

      Barrack Gold is likely to get some AU$54.8 million back (depending on further consideration). When it all washes through it will have a massive flow on effect for all mining companies in Western Australia which have paid stamp duty on companies they took over in recent years. The Appeal Court’s decision means that hundreds of millions of dollars of stamp duty that the government was hoping to gouge from the miners’ takeover activity will, potentially, not now flow into their coffers. In some cases government may even have to pay back erroneously raised stamp duty.

      The incompetence of government is there for all to see. Fewer public servants would be a good start to reducing the level of government interference in the lives of us all.

      Karma is a wonderful force. The irony is beautiful.

      40

  • #
    Russell

    Is there any chance of your speech being video (or even just audio) recorded so that it can be seen by people outside Perth? Maybe you could post a recording right here on your blog.

    I’m quite sure many of your regular bloggers would love to be able to see and promote what you say. It might even be worth trying to post it on Facebook although I imagine the lefties who run Facebook would ban it pretty quickly.

    200

  • #

    Much encouragement for you pretty lady! Go getem.
    All the best!-will-

    141

  • #
    Frank

    Jo, the energy infrastructure expert, speaks.

    But who will listen ?

    Good luck in the real world.

    48

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘But who will listen ?’

      There are a lot of people upset with their energy bills, I think its time for Jo to go into politics.

      ‘Good luck in the real world.’

      On my planet the authorities are saying carbon dioxide causes global warming and our grandchildren don’t have a future, its Hollywood catastrophism. To get a grip on what is happening you need to read up on millenarianism.

      80

    • #
      AndyG55

      Poor Frank,

      Still trying to get some meaning into an otherwise meaningless existence.

      A plaintive, pathetic, plea for attention. so sad.!

      You wouldn’t know what the real world was, Frank.

      94

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      But who will listen ?

      Well Frank, I listen. Over the years Jo has stood up to every last test I’ve ever applied to what she says. She even puts up with comments from you though I have no idea why.

      You on the other hand, offer only this kind of meaningless retort just to keep you name in front of everyone. If you believe this crap so fervently I suspect you should know that by now the prediction is that temperatures would be much higher; that large areas would be under water that are still high and dry; that there would be millions of refugees fleeing the effects of global warming; catastrophe everywhere; much more of the same kind of drivel… …endlessly. So if you really know your stuff you should be able to tell us where all this is happening.

      Now’s your chance, Frank. There’s never been a better time to show us what you’re made of.

      Oh! Excuse me. I’m sorry. You already have shown us what you’re made of.

      72

    • #
      AndyG55

      And while you are at it, maybe provide some empirical evidence that CO2 causes warming in a convective atmosphere.

      So far that evidence is very much LACKING . !!

      41

  • #
    Mark M

    As if switching light globes would stop hurricanes.

    450 million LEDs have been installed to date in the United States, up from less than half a million in 2009, and nearly 70% of Americans have purchased at least one LED bulb.

    Evidence of a Decline in Electricity Use by U.S. Households.
    https://energyathaas.wordpress.com/2017/05/08/evidence-of-a-decline-in-electricity-use-by-u-s-households/

    Yet …
    Irma and Harvey should kill any doubt about[Global Warming] by Michael Mann.
    https://twitter.com/PostOpinions/status/905864749057011712

    30

    • #
      Another Ian

      Mark M

      Looks like an unforseen plus for leds.

      Incandescents worked ok in old style drop lights.

      Halogens not worth plugging in – first bump and they’re gone

      Curly ones sort of – but what if it breaks beside you?

      Looks like leds will do the job (based on about a week of workshop)

      20

      • #
        Dean_from_Ohio

        One day I was interrupted by smoke in my son’s ceiling light. It was a compact fluourescent bulb smoking from its base. I began to unscrew it an burned my hand. In fact, my fingerprint was imprinted in the partly-molten plastic. There it remains.

        I have used it with my engineering students more than once as a lesson in unintended consequences. I asked for a show of hands in one group of about 30 students if anyone else had experienced a similar failure, and one hand (besides mine) went up. If each of the class members (and their families) had used 10 CFLs, that was a danger rate of 2 out of 300. You can look up burning CFLs on the internet too.

        I don’t ever recall seeing an incandescent light do that (though halogen bulbs reportedly do).

        Do-gooders feel great about their intentions, but rarely show up to claim and fix unintended consequences. It’s the Progressive mind to a T.

        00

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      I have a house full of LEDs but I buy them because of their longevity. A light bulb I can expect to run 23 or 24,000 hours is something I take notice of and years of service without changing a lightbulb is worth paying for to me.

      The connection between anything you or I may do and a hurricane is strictly in the imagination of those twittering fools who can’t think straight.

      I suspect that lighting is too small a percentage of household electricity use to be responsible for all the reduction in demand. Appliances are all designed now for minimum power use and that seems much more likely to be the reason for the dip in demand. But whatever the reason for it, that’s not a bad thing just at face value.

      00

  • #

    On the Beaufort Scale
    of emotional intensity
    hyperbole, – so mega,
    nouns like ‘massacre,’
    ‘tipping point,”disaster,’
    comparisons, not ‘worse’
    but ‘worst’ or preferably
    ‘unprecedented!’ OMG!

    Trouble is tho’ you likely
    run out of wind, and kinda’
    like war-weariness, people
    tire of the climactic
    Armageddon hype
    and you may find
    they don’t believe it.

    100

  • #
    TdeF

    You can be told the sky is falling. You can believe it.
    You can be told the seas are rising dangerously and rapidly. You can believe it.
    However after thirty years of this, how can anyone believe all the dire prediction of imminent death and destruction, wipeout of wildlife, end of crops and devastating droughts and hurricanes?

    Go down the beach, the same one you visited as a child. Has it changed? At all?

    At what point will people start to use their own powers of observation and question the so called Science of Climate Change, promulgated by another self serving politically run UN department? At what point will people ask why they are being punished so severely by their politicians, paying quadruplte electricity bills , $6Billion in RET taxes and for all that money, suffer horrendous blackouts?

    Why doesn’t the BOM, CSIRO, ABC, SBS, BBC say something? Why doesn’t our Prime Minister? Climate Change is crap. In thirty years, there has been no sign of it. You do not need to be a scientist to know there is nothing to deny. It is not true and clearly thirty years ago, it was not true either.

    212

    • #
      Dennis

      The UN IPCC and fellow travellers don’t care.

      50

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      You can’t see it at the beach. You can at Fort Denison, or we could till 2010, anyway:

      https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends_global_station.htm?stnid=680-140

      I keep asking, why did NOAA terminate this chart at 2010? Fort Denison hasn’t moved!

      The cynic in me fears they are clearing the way for fiddled numbers!

      81

    • #
      MareeS

      Oh, Ted, I share your frustration. But I have opted out of the fight, I just ignore the buggers now.

      Those people who want to control every nanosecond of your life will never give up the quest, so best to disengage and put them into an alternative sphere.

      What can they do if you ignore them, get your assets away from their taxes, laugh at them and every new scam.

      We don’t live in a place where they can send you tomSyberia or a mental asylum, somtreat them as a joke.

      61

    • #
      Evo of gong

      TdeF I agree with your comments about the BOM, CSIRO etc but there is one professional group that has also been absent from the discussion. The Institution of Engineers has the expertise to debunk a lot of the rubbish being sprouted on the electricity supply problems, but are not heard. As an simple example I was an electrical engineer in a large manufacturing industry (steel) before I retired and, with good maintenance, we ran electrical machines and turbines well past their stated 50 year life. Although modern machines are generally better, the old equipment doesn’t need to be scrapped at the end of the stated lifetime. Also, why cannot older plant be upgraded? A lot of the infrastructure associated with a coal burning power station is probably still perfectly serviceable even after 50 years (eg buildings, switchgear, transformers, cooling towers, chimneys etc. An upgrade to HELE boilers and new steam turbines should be a lot cheaper and faster than building a new plant from scratch.

      101

      • #
        TdeF

        Of course. As even Alan Kohler said (and he is a true believer in cheap wind power), factories and power stations do not have a use by date. Turnbull is talking nonsense about entirely new power stations which will cost billions to build and take 8 years to start generating while they could just maintain and upgrade what they have.

        As for the many ‘professional’ organizations including the Institution of Engineers, we hear nothing. Utter cowardice and self serving politics. Those who do speak out are fully in favor of short life span ‘renewables’ and ‘the science’ of uninformed consensus.

        The reason is that they want to please their political masters and replaceables are now supported by both sides of politics under our faux PM. Consider that many doctors have also resigned from the AMA for basically the same reason, misrepresenation. Many physicists from the American Society. In this post truth, post science world, Councils ignore residents and State premiers trash their states, driving businesses into bankruptcy. Recent Federal governments have crippled forestry, coal, gas, fishing, mining, manufacturing. Adelaide’s only plastics recycling business has been forced to close. Where is the sense in that? The politicians in the Institutions just stay silent.

        I never joined such an organization as they were so much about pleasing politicians and advancing the ambitions of people who had lost interest in their basic professions. Plus attention seeking opportunists. Finkel is a disgrace. He joins the recent ranks of Chief Scientists who do exactly what their political masters want. No one speaks out. That is left to people with more courage and less ambition. I am sure this blog is read by many. It helps.

        51

      • #
        Analitik

        the old equipment doesn’t need to be scrapped at the end of the stated lifetime

        On a pure engineering basis, you would be correct but you are assuming that the existing equipment has been maintained according to the stated schedules. Many of our coal plants have been bought and run on the basis that they would be retired in due course so minimal maintenance has been performed to maximise the returns.

        Have a look at this article about the state of the Liddell power station. I wouldn’t normally trust Peter Hannam to report accurately but last night, I coincidentally discussed this situation with an engineer who formerly worked at the plant and keeps in touch with the current staff. His assessment is that AGL has done a stellar job running down Liddell to its scheduled 2022 closure. In fact he has grave doubts as to whether all the units will still be operational by then.

        http://www.smh.com.au/environment/liddell-power-plant-operating-below-40-per-cent-capacity-faces-mammoth-woes-20170907-gycij7.html

        That AGL operates Liddell as a cash cow can be seen by the following statement about AGL from the article

        valued Liddell at zero dollars when it bought it in 2014

        40

      • #
        Len

        I understand that a group of Environmental Engineers have taken over the Australian Institute of Engineers. They don’t have the same credibility as the main stream engineers such as civil, structural, electrical etc. The environmental engineers are more environmentalist than proper engineers.

        30

  • #
    Robdel

    Well I pray that you do not have any disruptions from extremists. Good luck with your talk. I would be interested to learn the size of your audience after the event.

    30

  • #
    Robdel

    Well I pray that you do not have any disruptions from extremists. Good luck with your talk. I would be interested to learn the size of your audience after the event.

    10

  • #

    My favourite headline/title for Australia’s energy policies:

    How to incinerate an omelette while smashing all the eggs.

    60

    • #
      Will Janoschka

      My favourite headline/title for Australia’s energy policies:
      How to incinerate an omelette while smashing all the eggs.

      Have you Aussies never learned how to make an Armenian omelet? “First go steal some eggs”! :-)

      50

      • #
        Will Janoschka

        “Armenian omelet? “First go steal some eggs”! :-)
        Not from the supermarket but from da nests of small birds! How flavorful! Your Australian Ostrich does not participate! Try to steal her egg? Momma quickly stomps you into a small grease spot in the sand! :-)

        20

  • #
    Geoffrey Williams

    Love to hear what you say Jo . . I’m sure it will go well.
    GeoffW

    50

  • #
    Ruairi

    Australians are leading the pack,
    In a shameful and pointless attack,
    To shut down and be rid,
    Of a functioning grid,
    Which if lost, they may never get back.

    190

  • #
    cedarhill

    Why no huge backlash from the voters for all this? After a few election cycles one is beginning to think that Aussies are like the proverbial frog in the pot with the heat being turned up. That doesn’t work in the real world but it must be true for Aussie voters.

    70

  • #
    pat

    Rebecca Huntley and Guardian Essential continue with the Orwellian propaganda. read all – it’s totally unbelievable:

    12 Sept: Guardian Essential Report: Most Australians want government to regulate power prices – Guardian Essential poll
    Poll shows 81% support for more investment in renewables, as Labor remains ahead on a two-party preferred basis, at 54% to the Coalition’s 46%
    by Katharine Murphy Political editor
    The least popular options in a list of nine ideas were stopping coal-fired power stations from closing down (51%), building or subsidising new coal plants (48%) and allowing more onshore exploration of gas (48%)…

    Asked in the latest poll which political party would be most likely to deliver lower power prices, 19% of the sample said the Coalition, 28% said Labor, 35% said it would make no difference and 18% didn’t know…

    Asked to compare renewables with fossil fuels, 73% of the sample said renewables were better for the environment (compared with 8% on fossil fuels), 40% said renewables were better for the economy (compared with 28% for fossil fuels), 34% said renewables were better for jobs (compared with 26% for fossil fuels)…

    Renewables were also a winner on price in terms of public perception, with 41% saying renewables were better for their electricity costs, compared with 27% for fossil fuels…
    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/sep/12/most-australians-want-government-to-regulate-power-prices-guardian-essential-poll

    40

  • #
    Antoine D'Arche

    sorry if this has been covered before, I have only today heard this side of things, and am very interested in people’s feedback.
    Me = loathe AGW/ CC/ Al Gore etc etc etc, just so you know where I’m coming from.
    coal fired power stations in Australia have been been traditionally built to supply base load power, presumably in a stable grid, and most before the advent of the “electricity market” in Australia. Start up, run, 3000 rpm, 50Hz and all that.
    Now, they are being run up and down in response to prices, and to a degree I guess demand. This is apparently putting tremendous strain on what are essentially “low revving 4 cylinder diesel engines”, leading to increased wear and damage.
    BUT companies are electing to NOT do the maintenance e.g. Hazelwood, and perhaps Liddell (not sure there).
    Why not? Perhaps there’s no money in maintaining coal fired assets? Surprise, surprise.
    Sounds like a hire car – drive it like you stole, dump it, get a new one. Except there are no new ones.
    Anyway, I think you see where I’m going and what I’m asking.
    How much of the problem is the national electricity market? Or is it only a problem because of the presence of “renewables”.
    If you run a machine in this way, you sacrifice longevity, increase maintenance costs etc.
    Will it be enough just to scrap the RET etc? Or does the entire system need to revert to pre”market” status?

    70

    • #
      toorightmate

      If we stop the CO2 horsesh*t, we stop the RET which in turn stops subsidies which in turn gets Aussie power prices (and costs) back to where they should be.
      The CO2 horsesh*t has to stop.

      100

    • #
      RickWill

      How much of the problem is the national electricity market? Or is it only a problem because of the presence of “renewables”.

      The NEM worked well for almost 20 years until the penetration of wind and solar started to have an impact in the market. The high cost, stability and security of the national grid is solely a function of increasing connected wind and solar generation.

      Before the national grid, States had monopoly over power generation. The trade practices in government run facilities resulted in high power costs and there was no ability for private companies to buy power across state boundaries although there were interconnections. Also there was no ability for a private company to “wheel” power from a generator at one site to another site using the state assets. The industry Commission under Keating’s Treasury control addressed trade practices to some degree starting in the mid 80s and lead to the development of the national grid with a national market. With restrictive practices reduced and more completion, real power prices fell through the late 80s to the late 00s.

      Allowing intermittent generation into the grid has been seriously detrimental to the grid. It is priced in at large negative prices to guarantee it is always scheduled. That means the amount of traditional base load is being reduced. There is 4400MW of wind power connected to the grid. That potentially displaces an additional 4400MW of base load coal generation because those plants do not have the response time to cope with rapid power swings associated with wind power or solar power. The amount of so-called based load is effectively reduced by the amount of intermittent generation on the grid. The displaced slow response, low cost coal is replaced with high cost, fast response gas fired units. There is no reduction in the need for fossil generation because wind and solar can both have zero output at the same time on any day in any month in any year. So high cost gas is now the price setter in the NEM for a higher proportion of the time. There were times in the past when wind generation could set the price in SA but there is a now a recognition that gas plants need to be running for stability reasons so high price gas is always setting the price in the SA market.

      Since the 1990s State governments have progressively lost touch with the reality of power generation through corporatisation and privatisation programs and there has been no planning or risk assessment associated with the idealogical driven, planet saving, inappropriately named renewables.

      The fundamental mistake was allowing intermittents to be connected to the grid. At low levels they have little impact. However SA now has 1600MW of wind and 1000MW of solar. That is supplying a load that averages around 1200MW. So when the wind blows and sun shines it can be destabilising. It can also collapse very quickly with a front moving across that causes wind generatorss to shut down on high wind protection and solar to be blanketed. SA was averaging 40% of its energy from wind and solar but it has come at high cost to consumers in the SA and across Australia. The recent capping of wind to 1200MW for stability reasons will lower that figure. If the CSP ever produces it will further harm the economics of the existing wind generators as their capacity factors will fall even further. To get to 100% from wind and solar their capacity factors drop to around 5% and there needs to be massive storage. It is an economic impossibility but it seems few people really appreciate this. Most business in SA are already on life support so their electricity demand is likely to fall; further reducing capacity factors for the wind generators.

      One interesting correlation for SA is that 10% of their electricity was produced by renewables in 2010 and in that year there were 4,700 disconnections. By 2016 the renewables supplied 39% of the market and disconnections reached 10,500. One of the growing services in SA is support for financially stressed power consumers. SA has the highest rate of power disconnections and the highest penetration of renewables. It is a basket case.

      161

      • #
        Antoine D'Arche

        thank you very much RickWill for that very authoritative explanation. Much appreciated

        20

      • #
        Peter C

        Thanks Rick,

        I can understand all that. Why is that our politicians seem to have so much trouble?

        30

        • #
          RickWill

          Why is that our politicians seem to have so much trouble?

          Probably two key reasons:
          1. I doubt any of them had the pleasure of negotiating with the NSW Mines and Energy Minister in the Greiner government to remove their exhorbitant mark up on power supplied across the border from Victoria to a large load in NSW. Most young people think Australia would be better off with government operating the power supply. They had years at it and Australia’s power was as expensive as any in the world.

          2. They are not operating their household business off grid on solar or wind energy and battery storage. There is a common belief that the grid is a big battery that generators pump into as they like and consumers just take as much as they want when ever they want it. The widely promoted and accepted view is that wind and solar are cheaper than coal – a very large proportion of the population believe this. Reality is there to see but only around 25% connect the dots.

          50

          • #
            Dennis

            It was the Greiner NSW Coalition Government that closed the Electricity Commission of NSW and established government owned private companies to manage electricity assets, management to run those businesses for profit (dividends to government) and based on good business management principles.

            The Carr Labor Government inherited those private companies and set about changing management by appointing partisan players to executive positions. They were required to create debt used to pay the Labor Government more in “dividends” which were used to make Labor Government Budgets appear stronger than they really were.

            Not long before Labor lost government they sold businesses valued at more than $12 billion for $5.9 billion, and when the hidden off government budget debts were settled all that was left was $800 million.

            It is interesting to see the list of new owners of those assets.

            51

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        RickWill:

        CSP? Are you referring to the Project Aurora, the solar heat plant for Pt. Augusta? If it is ever more than a press release before a election.

        I wouldn’t worry about it as it is so small that its effects will be minimal for most of the year and good during summer when demand is high. It is supposed to deliver 495GW or 5% of SA’s electricity requirements EXCEPT that it cannot do so. Pt. Augusta has 3000-3200 sunshine hours a year and the plant will operate at 125MW (by agreement) but is supposedly capable of 150MW. At the maximum hours of sunshine and maximum output (3200*150) it cannot reach the announced output, and that assumes that those hours of sunshine occur in the middle of the day when the sun rides high and output peaks. (See TonyfromOz’s charts etc.).
        And don’t forget these type of generators usually shut down for the winter; not that big a problem in Australia because our peak demand is in summer. Yet even there its output will be unlikely to exceed 70MW even if it only ran for 10 hours a day. 2% on a hot day.
        Excuse me, got to get that generator hooked up. (also have a note from SA power networks that I won’t have electricity for 7 hours next Thursday.)

        10

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      Antoine, it’s not diesels, it’s steam turbines.

      That said, you are still right about the fluctuating supply problem. But the whole and sole problem is political corruption of the marketplace, with governments taxing coal to subsidise wind and solar. Abolish that corruption and the market will sort itself out quickly.

      50

      • #
        Antoine D'Arche

        thank you Ted. Incidentally, I do know they are steam turbines :) it was a metaphor. But thank you

        20

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        I found out 2 days ago that SA will have diesels running this summer. The next 2 years it will have 9 Open Cycle gas turbines burning diesel fuel (because of gas shortages) then they will be relocated and switched to gas as they act as ‘standby’ for our new “superdooper” SHP (solar heat plant) (see above for its likely output if it is ever built) which might be ready in 3 years.

        We get stoppages at home,
        We get blackouts during TV shows,
        We get speeches from our Premier
        And advice from Silly Kout,
        We get B.S. ads we pay for
        We get dizzy from the smell!
        What do we get?
        We know damn well!
        More blackouts.

        We have nothin’ to work a light bulb
        What we need is what there ain’t no substitute for…

        There is nothin’ like a SHP,
        Nothin’ in the world,
        There is nothin’ you can name
        That is anything like a SHP!

        10

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘Will it be enough just to scrap the RET etc? Or does the entire system need to revert to pre”market” status?’

      Yes on both accounts, coal is not a pollutant.

      30

      • #
        Analitik

        Yes to the first, no to the second.

        Read the following to see how the AEMO and other electricity markets were designed to operate with dispatchable generation and how renewables disrupt the economics.

        http://energypost.eu/capacity-payments-expensive-solution-non-existing-problem/

        The only problem with this article is that the author has a “green” bias and downplays the effect of the renewables being allows to bypass the merit order. But it is a beautifully clear explanation that

        tell it like it is, and how it could be
        How it was, and of course, how it should be

        20

  • #
    pat

    13 Sept: Australian: David Crowe: AGL’s Liddell power station could keep firing until 2032
    The coal-fired power station could operate at least a decade longer than its scheduled 2022 closure under a “life-extension study” that was drafted by engineers and uncovered in a legal dispute over its ownership.
    The conclusions counter Labor claims that the government is giving Australians “false hope” by seeking a longer life for the ageing station, which generates enough electricity for one million homes…

    The Australian has seen documents that suggest Liddell could operate at least a decade longer.
    The documents were lodged with the Australian Competition Tribunal in 2014 when AGL ­appealed against a decision by the Australian Competition & Consumer Commission to block AGL buying Liddell and the neighbouring Bayswater power station from the NSW government…

    One industry executive with decades of experience and close knowledge of the power station said it could be more cost-effective to keep Liddell operating than to build a new power station…
    “A life extension study at Liddell has identified required upgrades and maintenance to allow for an extension of the engineering useful life from the current 50 years to 60 years ending in 2032,” the statement says.
    “However, no decision has been made on the extension of Liddell’s accounting useful life from the current end date in 2022.
    “It is apparent from work done to date that engineering considerations will not terminate operations at Liddell and instead any decision on life extension will be dependent on the economic ­viability of Liddell in the national electricity market.”

    Liddell had a forced outage rate of 46.1 per cent in the year before it was acquired by AGL and continues to be unreliable. Two of its four units were shut down during a heatwave in February, leading to power shortages.
    Even so, it produces about 8000 gigawatt hours of electricity a year, up from 7073 GW hours in the year before the AGL acquisition in September 2014…READ ALL
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/mining-energy/agls-liddell-power-station-could-keep-firing-until-2032/news-story/2108390a24e0d716cca8b965c6d068c7

    for what it’s worth, a caller phoned Steve Price/2GB program this evening to claim there was no “boiler creep” at Liddell.

    40

  • #
    pat

    13 Sept: Australian: John Durie: (SCROLL DOWN) Political power failure
    The plight of Energy Australia’s Mount Piper power station in the NSW central west is a classic case of what happens with government regulation and how it affects ­consumers.
    It is example 101 of the dismal political handling of Australia’s power shortage.
    As outlined in this column last week, Energy Australia chief Catherine Tanna told staff of the bizarre situation of one arm of the NSW government financing a legal action against another, ­potentially to the detriment of the 1400MW coal-fired power station near Lithgow…

    The NSW Environmental ­Defenders Office financed a legal campaign by 4nature to shut the mine on the grounds that its ­planning permits are invalid…
    The NSW government has also helped finance the protests against the Narrabri gas fields…

    If a shutdown of the mine is ­ordered, Mount Piper would have months left to run.
    Coming up to peak summer season this is not good and likewise, given power is acquired in long-term contracts, it would be tough for Mount Piper to enter into contracts when it doesn’t know how long it will be able to stay open.
    The Court of Appeal has ordered the parties into mediation, which is due to start next month…

    How many times have you heard business complaining about the problem of too many layers of government in this country?…
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/opinion/john-durie/media-mania-whips-up-an-iphone-storm/news-story/2e6e5ef97b4efaeef0ebb25de3d42000

    13 Sept: Australian: Dennis Shanahan: Parties place energy crisis at the top of political agenda
    At last the Coalition and the Labor Party, Malcolm Turnbull and Bill Shorten, agree the energy crisis is the most important thing facing Australia…
    The Opposition Leader has also realised Labor’s strategy of parliamentary disruption was overextended and engaged the Coalition on electricity costs and blackouts. All the questions from both sides were on energy — bar one on North Korea.

    After two years as Liberal leader, Turnbull has succeeded on power prices. He should have started when he became leader and stuck with it.
    Turnbull, Scott Morrison, and Josh Frydenberg are putting rising prices, not climate change, as the priority and it is giving the Coalition the edge on Labor in parliament…

    In response to Labor claims that five coal-fired power stations have been closed, Turnbull’s put-down was that the ALP “wanted to close more of them, and more frequently”.
    Shorten’s response is thin on policy and politics: Labor just says the clean energy target must be implemented and then everything will be hunky-dory.
    It’s no answer to the Coalition’s attack on Labor’s opposition to coal-fired power but it is still the weak point for Turnbull. His response to Shorten on this issue — already raised by Tony Abbott with a warning that grafting a CET on to a renewable energy target would be hard for consumers — was Turnbull’s weakest moment…
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/dennis-shanahan/parties-place-energy-crisis-at-the-top-of-political-agenda/news-story/0c6dfb5c19bd7565395317c6c95d34e4

    30

    • #
      el gordo

      Speaking on behalf of the local people, coal is king.

      ‘Lithgow City Council has called on government representatives and EnergyAustralia to back the expansion of Mt Piper Power Station in Wallerawang from two power units to four.’

      Federal member Andrew Gee (Nats) should run with this at the next election.

      20

  • #
    pat

    jo – as depressing as this LENGTHY collection of pieces is, it might be useful as background for your talk.
    the sheer hypocrisy of Labor criticising the closure of coal-fired plants while demanding more “renewables” and only “renewables” is incredible:

    13 Sept: Australian: Australian Politics Live: Frydenberg accuses Labor of concocting power figures
    Greg Brown – six hours ago
    ‘Labor don’t like coal’
    Labor’s Mark Butler questions about the seven coal power plants that have closed under the Coalition government.
    “After seven coal-fired power station closures, why has the Prime Minister only discovered energy supply is a problem now?”…

    Greg Brown – nine hours ago
    Clean energy, plus coal
    Barnaby Joyce says he would support a variation of the clean energy target as long as it allowed coal-fired power plants to stay open…

    Scott Morrison said people were getting “ahead of themselves” with speculation the Coalition had decided to change the clean energy target recommended in the Finkel report.
    “I think all of that speculation and commentary is just hyperventilating frankly,” Mr Morrison said.
    “We are working very, very hard to deliver an investment program that will deliver the certainty that is necessary, that encompasses an all-of-the-above approach when it comes to the resources that are required to drive our energy sector.
    “We don’t rule out coal, like the Labor Party does. We do embrace renewables.”…

    Greg Brown – 12 hours ago
    Plibersek attacks ‘weak’ PM
    Ms Plibersek said the government was contributing to soaring power prices as it was not encouraging investment in renewables…
    “This government promised it would cut $550 a year from peoples’ energy bills when they got rid of Labor’s carbon pricing mechanism. Instead, energy bills have gone up by around $1000 a year in Sydney.
    “That is because renewables are becoming cheaper than polluting sources of energy but this government has overseen a freeze in new investment.

    “We need more gas, more renewables, more battery storage and more certainty and this government has failed on every front when it comes to providing cleaner energy, more reliable energy, cheaper energy.”

    She batted off criticism from former NSW Labor treasurer Michael Costa who said Bill Shorten had turned his back on Labor’s working class base by not supporting coal.
    “What nonsense. Seven plants have closed under this government, taking 4000 megawatts of power generation out of the system,” Ms Plibersek said.
    “It is only when Liddell becomes an issue for political reasons that suddenly the Prime Minister discovers coal workers.”
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/australian-politics-live-energy-samesex-marriage-and-media-reform-dominate/news-story/8f6911736d626ccf4d8100c11a291d16

    60

    • #
      Dennis

      Ms Plibersek is a master of twisting facts to suit her agenda.

      Examples: That Minister for Health Abbott cut health funding – funding increased as a percentage of federal budget spending from 15% 1995/96 to 22% 2006/07. $20 billion to $47.6 billion. Plibersek based her deceptive comment on a budget forward estimates, health estimated to increase by so much, GST receipts to increase by so much. When the budget year arrived those estimates were no longer applicable, GST receipts had well exceeded estimates and as a result federal grants for health to the states was adjusted downwards. Noting GST was introduced for the states and to decrease federal grant budgeting needs.

      Another more recent example was the last Labor Budget announced May 2013 (2013/14 financial year), Labor failed to make provisions to pay for a number of their budgeted expenditure items, including “Gonski” public education grants to the states. The Abbott led Coalition had promised to honour Labor’s budgeted commitments (subject to an independent auditor report that confirmed the Labor figures were correct). The promise was to honour Gonski for 2013/14 financial year and for the following forward estimate years, and after that no guarantee.

      The first Coalition Budget announced May 2014 did fund Gonski, and earlier the Coalition borrowed to fund the previous Labor Budget unfunded commitment for Gonski. But as there was no forward estimate provision for Gonski in the last forward estimate year from the Coalition first Budget Plibersek claimed they had cut education spending.

      And the average voter would not know that the claim is untrue.

      50

  • #
    pete

    Thus ‘free energy’ meme is just a boondoggle, a lie, a fraudulent scheme to rob us of our money and take away cheap energy from our homes. Solar rays and wind are as free as oil, coal and gas still under ground. Oil, coal and gas are also free energy, free until one has to extract these energy sources, th there are processing costs, transport costs etc etc. Solar rays and wind currents cease to be free when one starts putting up solar panels and wind turbines and having to spend even more money on stand-by generation to keep the elctrons flowing when the sun doesn’t shine and the wind refuses to blow

    71

  • #
    Rud Istvan

    Jo, feel free to use anything from Climate Etc (Judy Curry) guest posts True Cost of Wind, Grid Solar, and Intermittant agrid Storage. All show haw expensive and impractical renewables are.

    50

  • #
    Pete of Perth

    Would love to attend but I’ll be at altitude returning from Sydney.

    20

  • #
    John in Oz

    Be prepared for Jay Wetherill to fly over with a couple of hangers-on to attend and ask for a 20 minute one-on-one as he did with Al Gore recently in Melbourne.

    Jay is obviously very interested in all aspects of this debate so should be in the front row (/sarc).

    I’ll be sure to send him (and Tom K) notification of the event.

    70

  • #
    john

    INBEV, (Anheuser Busch), goes with 100% Wind, I, and millions will go on a diet…

    I am extending my new diet, which has been a favorite in my family for 4 generations. Shame on you, Budweiser…

    http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/anheuser-busch-signs-wind-farm-power-deal-as-part-of/article_b947910e-ed54-5b34-934a-cb2173388fdb.html

    It was nice knowing and doing business with you, but now we must have a parting of the way regarding your latest ‘business’ decision. You did great as it stands, but getting subsidies and playing the Renewables Credits scam demonstrates how ‘unamerican’ you have become.

    Sadly and sincerely,

    john

    P.S. I will now upgrade to Macallan in moderation with the usual good Caberner/ Malbec.

    40

  • #
    john

    Also you Aussies neef to watch this maan…

    https://au.linkedin.com/in/sean-caffyn-40270b69

    And his father, Brian. The father uses aliases, was involved with organized crime in wind (IVPC), and is currently ‘hiding’ in South Korea based on what WE know.

    40

  • #
    michael hart

    I’d happily fly round the world to see you speak, Jo, but unfortunately the wages of carbon-sin aren’t what they’re cracked up to be.

    70

  • #
    sophocles

    Give your audience both barrels right between the eyes, Jo!

    La Belle Dame Sans Merci :-)

    10

  • #
    the sting

    At least the Nationals conference in Canberra last weekend voted to put an end to RET was a small step in the right direction.And for former Minister Matt Canavan stating that renewables is ”the biggest protection racket going around”there is a tiny glimmer of hope.I am looking at a small diesel powered generator though for back up for the house to get us through the next 8 years of intermittent blackouts.

    20

    • #
      PeterS

      The Nats are a bunch of hypocrites much like the rest of them. If Barnaby Joyce was truly a man of his conviction he should immediately front up to Turnbull and tell him to put into place incentives for the building of several new coal fired power stations ASAP otherwise Joyce breaks the coalition and stands on such a policy on their own. Enough is enough – this country can no longer stand for leftist leaning ideologies on power generation from both major parties. Our future is at stake here. Someone has to take a stand and Joyce has the opportunity right now to do it. Given he is unlikely to do the above he is simply a hypocrite just like the rest of them, and the country will go under thanks to the type of leaders we have in government and opposition.

      40

  • #
    pat

    ???

    12 Sept: NYT: Lisa Friedman: Top White House Official to Discuss Climate Change at U.N.
    Gary D. Cohn, the chief White House economic adviser, is convening senior climate and energy ministers from about a dozen nations in advance of next week’s United Nations General Assembly meeting, the White House confirmed Tuesday.

    The breakfast in New York next Monday will be held against a backdrop of devastation in the United States and the Caribbean from two monster hurricanes that scientists say may have been made more ferocious by warming trends. It also comes as the Trump administration is navigating an uncertain position in the international climate change negotiations, having declared it will withdraw from the global Paris agreement while also telling nations it remains open to continued discussions.

    Invitations were sent to officials from the world’s largest economies. The event is billed as “an opportunity for key ministers with responsibility for these issues to engage in an informal exchange of views and discuss how we can move forward most productively,” according to the invitation. The note says the group will be kept small and include ministerial-level officials only.

    “It is too early to say what may come out of the meeting, but it shows that the U.S. is keen to engage with key countries,” said one diplomat who asked not to be identified because he was not authorized to speak for his government. “If the U.S. expresses its clear intent on addressing climate change issues at the meeting, that would be a positive sign.”

    A White House official said that the meeting was intended to be an informal discussion to help the Trump administration find a way to fulfill the president’s pledge to reduce emissions without harming the American economy…
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/12/climate/trump-adviser-gary-cohn-un-climate-change-meeting.html?mtrref=undefined

    12 April: WaPo: The derogatory internal nicknames of the Trump White House, ranked
    By Aaron Blake
    [Stephen] Bannon allies are bitter about the role they believe economic adviser Gary Cohn has played in undercutting their guy to POTUS. In private conversations, they call him “Globalist Gary.” In text messages, the shorthand is CTC (Carbon Tax Cohn) or one simple emoji: EMOJI OF GLOBE.
    That is an amazing anecdote. And it comes just days after The Washington Post reported on some other nicknames in the Bannon vs. Jared Kushner battle and CNN first reported the “Globalist Gary” epithet…
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/04/12/the-white-houses-amazingly-petty-nicknames-ranked/?utm_term=.639bb634e606

    10

  • #
    Dennis

    11:43AMGREG BROWN, RACHEL BAXENDALE

    PoliticsNow: The competition watchdog has labelled AGL’s ownership of two Hunter Valley coal stations as “anti-competitive”.

    The Australian

    10

    • #
      Dennis

      What about price fixing? Setting electricity price using highest generating cost via wind and solar which are less than 5% of total supply and charging that price even for the lowest generating cost coal fired power stations that represent 80% of supply … no wonder they can afford settlement discounts up to 22% reported.

      10

  • #
    pat

    13 Sept: Montreal Gazette: Still time to convince U.S. of benefits of Paris climate accord: McKenna
    by Mia Rabson, The Canadian Press
    OTTAWA — Environment Minister Catherine McKenna says there is still time to convince the United States not to withdraw from the Paris climate change accord and an unexpected meeting scheduled for New York next week might be the first step in that direction.
    McKenna is one of about a dozen environment and climate ministers from the world’s largest economies who were suddenly invited by White House chief economic adviser Gary Cohn to discuss climate at a breakfast in New York on Monday…
    “It’s certainly a sign that the White House is looking at how they can move forward on this issue,” McKenna told The Canadian Press in an interview Wednesday.
    Cohn, a registered Democrat, is one of the few people in the Trump administration with a public stance in favour of climate change science.

    However a former special adviser on environment and energy to former president Barack Obama says there is no reason for optimism about the meeting.
    “Frankly I think this is Gary Cohn playing at making policy-making because we have seen no evidence that he has any influence on the administration,” said Nathaniel Keohane, now the vice-president of the Environmental Defense Fund.
    “When it counted, President Trump went the other way. I would love to be wrong but I don’t see any evidence that I’m wrong.”

    Just last week Trump bragged to supporters in North Dakota about pulling out of Paris…

    Scott Pruitt, head of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, has public questioned climate change science. He will not be at the Monday meeting with Cohn.
    Neither will he attend a meeting in Montreal this weekend, where Canada, China and the European Union will jointly host ministers and officials from 30 countries, including France, Germany and the United Kingdom, to discuss a path forward for the Paris agreement…
    http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/national/invites+canada+climate+change+meeting/14657310/story.html

    12 Sept: CNBC: Jeff Cox: Hedge fund king Ray Dalio says it would be ‘terrible’ for market if Gary Cohn leaves administration
    •Speculation about Cohn’s future has been rampant since he apparently has fallen out of favor with President Donald Trump.
    •Dalio says it would “terrible” generally if Cohn leaves and bad for the stock market.
    Thought only a short time ago to be in line for the chair position at the Federal Reserve, there’s increasing speculation that Cohn may be leaving the administration soon.
    “In terms of my reaction, I would say if he was to leave it would be terrible,” Dalio said at the “Delivering Alpha” conference presented by CNBC and Institutional Investor…

    However, various reports indicate that Trump has frozen out Cohn. The New York Times on Monday reported that Trump does not make eye contact with Cohn when they are in a room together, a favorite tactic of the president to show displeasure…

    Dalio said Cohn is skilled in what the hedge fund titan called “thoughtful disagreements,” which he said forms the cornerstone for the way his Bridgewater Associates is run.
    “The power of great collective decision-making is so much greater than the power of any individual decision-making,” he said.
    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/12/hedge-fund-king-ray-dalio-says-it-would-be-bad-for-market-if-gary-cohn-leaves-administration.html

    00

  • #
    OriginalSteve

    I have noticed a hint of what seems to be Trumps administration supporting Agenda 21/Rewilding.

    Rewilding means once a hurricane / natural idisaster has occurred and driven people out of an area, people are then not allowed back into that area to live, in effect turning it back over to nature. Similar happened with areas around New Orleans after Katrina.

    https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/melanie-arter/wh-homeland-security-adviser-asked-blame-hurricanes-climate-change

    ““I will tell you that we continue to take seriously the climate change – not the cause of it, but the things that we observe, and so those rising flood waters, I think one inch every 10 years in Tampa, things that would require prudent mitigation measures,” he said.

    “And what I said from the podium the other day and what President Trump remains committed to is making sure that federal dollars aren’t used to rebuild things that will be in harm’s way later or that won’t be hardened against the future predictable floods that we see, and that has to do with engineering analysis and changing conditions along eroding shorelines, but also in inland water, flood control projects,” Bossert added.”

    00

  • #
    pat

    original headline:

    Trump Has No Plans To Rejoin Paris Accord
    The Daily Caller – 11 hours ago

    revised:

    13 Sept: Daily Caller: Michael Bastasch: The White House To Push ‘More Efficient And Cleaner Fossil Fuels’ At Meeting With Foreign Climate Ministers
    The White House will use an informal meeting ahead of a United Nations summit to push President Donald Trump’s goals of making fossil fuels “more efficient and cleaner,” according to an official.

    ***What’s not on the table at the moment is U.S. re-entry into the Paris climate accord, which Trump announced he would withdraw from in June…

    A White House official said they plan to push “more efficient and cleaner fossil fuels” and a “global approach” to cutting greenhouse gas emissions that doesn’t hurt the U.S. economy…
    The White House will push goals it laid out at this year’s G20 meeting to promote all energy sources, not just green energy, and increase energy access and security, the official said…

    “Job killer. People have no idea. Many people have no idea how bad that was,” Trump said of the Paris accord in a recent speech in North Dakota on tax reform…

    White House economic adviser Gary Cohn will meet with ministers from other countries in New York on Tuesday…
    http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/13/the-white-house-to-push-more-efficient-and-cleaner-fossil-fuels-at-meeting-with-foreign-climate-ministers/

    10

  • #
    pat

    it’s all hearsay, but here goes:

    13 Sept: ClimateChangeNews: China, EU and Canada to take lead on climate at Montreal meeting
    New partners move to take on global climate leadership at meeting in Canada this weekend as US influence declines
    By Arthur Neslen in Brussels and Karl Mathiesen in London
    PHOTO CAPTION: Canadian environment minister Catherine McKenna, Chinese special envoy Xie Zhenhua (***CENTRE) and EU commissioner on climate Miguel Arias Cañete…

    Shadowed by ***two record-breaking US hurricanes in one week, the meeting will be co-convened by Brussels, Beijing and Ottawa – in what EU sources describe as a “pretty remarkable achievement”, given past differences between China, the developing nations and the West…

    The EU and China came close to issuing a powerful joint statement on climate change leadership in June, only for the talks to founder over the EU’s unwillingness to recognise China as a market economy.
    An EU source told Climate Home the communique was not dead: “The moment for it has passed – until the next moment arises. That will probably be in the next time we are in summit formation.”…
    The Europeans and Chinese remain at loggerheads on issues such as transparency rules for carbon accounting…

    The US has spearheaded action for a decade, particularly through the Major Economies Forum on Energy and Climate…
    But no new Mef meetings have been scheduled. (On Tuesday, the Mef website appeared to have been the victim of a cyber attack, a state department spokesperson said they were looking into the issue.)…

    But the familiarly dry agenda of differentiation, transparency rules and nationally determined contributions may yet be upstaged by a climate announcement from the Trump administration.
    The New York Times reported on Tuesday that Gary Cohn, the head of Trump’s National Economic Council, would convene a breakfast meeting with about a dozen ministers in New York on Monday next week…

    Several sources told Climate Home the US has signalled that it will flesh out its position towards the Paris Agreement.
    “We are expecting to hear something from the US at this ministerial about their re-engagement with Paris,” one senior climate diplomat told Climate Home. “It is likely to be quite Paris-specific as they intend to engage actively and constructively in the work programme – they are characterising it as ‘active and constructive’.”

    ***“The message [is] that they are exploring terms that do not involve any quest to renegotiate Paris,” the source added…

    In the run up to the Bonn COP23 climate summit, EU and US officials are now said to be in “almost continuous touch”.
    Much of Trump’s climate diplomacy to date has been handled by Cohn and David Banks, a special assistant on international energy and environment issues. It is thought that Cohn will be in Montreal at the weekend…

    Many attendees, including the EU’s climate commissioner Miguel Arias Canete, will be relocating to New York on the Sunday for meetings at the UN General Assembly, ahead of a ‘Climate Week’ event which will be attended by the UK minister Clare Perry.
    The British prime minister, Theresa May, and US environment administrator Scott Pruitt are also expected to attend the UN meet…

    Last week, Pruitt told CNN that it would be “misplaced” to talk about climate change in the context of Hurricane Irma, which has devastated Florida.
    Trump’s spokeswoman, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, yesterday told US reporters that the president’s views on climate change had not been changed by the ***extraordinary convergence of record-breaking storms.
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2017/09/13/china-eu-canada-take-lead-climate/

    00

  • #
    pat

    Mathiesen makes a big deal over $10m for UNFCCC, but leaves rejection of $750m for the UN’s Green Climate Fund til the final para of the article! lol. nonetheless, the CAGW swamp runs deep:

    7 Sept: ClimateChangeNews: US senate committee votes to reinstate funding to UN climate treaty
    The committee passed an amendment to give $10m to the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change, an organisation Donald Trump wants to cut off
    By Karl Mathiesen
    The US senate appropriations committee, which is led by Republicans, has voted to contribute $10 million to the UN treaty organisation that oversees the Paris climate agreement.
    An amendment by Democrat senator Jeff Merkley would restore the funding stripped from the overseas budget for the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) and its science wing, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)…

    The committee’s ranking democrat senator Patrick Leahy said: “The president sent us a budget that was irresponsible and indefensible. We were provided no credible justification for the cuts that were proposed, which would have severely eroded US global leadership.”
    Leahy called the president’s budget request “reckless” and said: “This bill does not do enough to protect our national security interests. Underfunding many critical programs – from UN peacekeeping to climate change to humanitarian relief for victims of war and natural disasters – is unacceptable for the world’s wealthiest, most powerful nation.”

    The press office of the UNFCCC said it did not want to comment on the development…

    Trump has indicated that, even if the US leaves the Paris Agreement, it will remain part of the treaty that formed the UNFCCC. Thus, it would remain liable for the obligatory payments. Although his budget indicates the president does not intend to honour the treaty…

    On Thursday, Climate Home reported that other countries – including the European Commission, ***Australia, South Korea, Japan, Switzerland and the UK – were preparing to step in to fill the funding gap and save the IPCC from plunging into millions of dollars of debt…

    The amendment passed through the committee 16 to 14. All the Democrats in the committee voted for the amendment, except Joe Manchin the West Virginian senator. Two Republicans Lamar Alexander and Susan Collins voted in favour…

    ***A further amendment, which would have sent $750m to the UN’s Green Climate Fund, which assists poor countries with adapting to climate change, was rejected by the committee.
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2017/09/07/us-senate-committee-votes-reinstate-funding-un-climate-treaty/

    00

  • #
    JOHN IVORY

    1.I knew that already.
    2. I am making money out of of poor people who never joined up too 44c + 11c FID rate.
    But will be paying more in 2028 whem loose the 44c.
    3. Send all coal overseas while we use renewable which cost more and less reliable because when sun and wind stop traffic lights go out too. Stopped building coal fired power stations which were reliable and cheap.
    4. Bring the as many company’s they can too sell power rather than just goverment doing it and collecting profits to provide more services. But government is sub the renew ables instead

    00