JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Weekend Unthreaded

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Weekend Unthreaded, 9.3 out of 10 based on 39 ratings

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293 comments to Weekend Unthreaded

  • #
    Sweet Old Bob

    IPCC data inadequate for climate policy….over at WUWT .
    But you already had that figured out . 8:>))

    121

  • #
    Dave in the States

    For Tony from Oz, as you probably know Glen Campbell passed away.

    In some of news articles they had the likes of Bill Clinton and Nancy Pelosi praising him for bring awareness to Alzheimer’s. Clinton was saying how we need to spend a lot more money on Alzheimer’s research. It struck me that it is the likes of Pelosi and Clinton that are needlessly flushing trillions down the drain on climate change when there are so many issues that need research funding.

    450

    • #
      Mark M

      Published on youtube Aug 8, is this great interview with Alice cooper, who played golf with Glen Campbell every week.

      He talks about GC’s battle with Alzheimer’s amongst some amusing anecdotes. (11 mins )

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6q2hsdXenQ

      h/t to pointman.

      70

    • #
      AndyG55

      “needlessly flushing trillions down the drain on climate change when there are so many issues that need research funding.”

      That needs highlighting, !!

      210

      • #
        Dennis

        For example: One in every eight Australians now live in poverty, thousands are homeless including children.

        110

        • #
          bobl

          And much of it driven by energy and government costs! Pensioners spend 80% or more of their government pensions on what? Government charges and taxes! INSANE. They could halve the pension while just not charging all the government costs to them and pensioners WOULD BE BETTER OFF.

          110

    • #

      Dave in the States,

      it was sad news about Glen Campbell. His condition was so bad in the last few years, that he was in the studio recording his last album, and he had one of his children and his manager in the booth with him, and they had to prompt him with the lines to his songs, virtually at the end of each line. In the same breath, he would pick up one of his many guitars and play note for note perfectly. The advantage of rote learning from the age of five, and 76 years playing. All those years as a session guitarist taught something that the body did not forget.

      I did a Midweek Music Post on his sad passing, with my most favourite song of his, the lesser known True Grit from 1969, released a few years after he became so huge, a song that barely registered on any charts, and in that Post, I included that wonderful image of him on the stairs surrounded by just some of his guitars, and there were 23 of them, some of them made only for him by Ovation, and some of the rarest guitars in the World.

      John Wayne won his only Best Actor Academy Award for his role in the original True Grit, and when he heard the song written for the movie, he asked if Glen Campbell could play in the movie as his ‘offsider’.

      After the movie was made and released to acclaim, John had a guest appearance on the Glen Campbell TV variety show, and they both rode in on horses, in the TV studio mind you. It was all carefully staged, and when they eased to a halt, Glen was handed his guitar, and he asked John to sing a duet with him.

      John drily replied, “Glen, I sing about as well as you can act!”

      Sad news.

      The link to my Post is – Midweek Music – True Grit – Vale Glen Campbell

      Tony.

      161

      • #
        Another Ian

        Around Glen Campbell and Rhinestone Cowboy – seems Graeme Connors had the offer first and knocked it back

        30

    • #
      Glen Michel

      I bought “Galveston ” on a 45rpm in 1968 ( I think) .Loved the 6 string bass and 12 string guitar. Jimmy Webb and his poignant beauty of a lovely America. So much good. Farewell and glüclkliche reise!

      60

    • #
      John of Cloverdale, WA, Australia

      Glen was a Beach Boy and played the bagpipes. What a legend.
      Amazing Grace

      50

  • #
    Another Ian

    “Uncovered: decades-old government report showing climate data was bad, unfit for purpose”

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/08/12/uncovered-decades-old-report-showing-climate-data-was-bad/

    71

    • #

      Gosh, that was cunningly “covered”. You have to go to all the trouble of doing a Google search to find it.

      A thoughtful person may choose to be sceptical of anything Tim Ball has to say, given his form.

      12

  • #
  • #
    el gordo

    BoM got July rainfall totally wrong.

    http://www.warwickhughes.com/blog/?p=5251

    If you believe in global warming and the intensification of the subtropical ridge in staring us in the face, then obviously its easy to make a wrong call.

    They had no idea the STR was about to collapse.

    121

    • #
      Robert Rosicka

      Trouble with BOM is they’ve created their own set of data to fit the ideology of CAGW but it’s now useless for weather prediction.

      181

      • #
        el gordo

        They can’t shake the AGW meme, so naturally their forecasts are wrong.

        101

        • #
          Dennis

          It is irritating me that television news talking heads keep dropping short lines obviously crafted to maintain the warming agenda and prepare the evening path from news to weather report.

          91

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          It strikes me we have some collosal failures recently –

          #Census_Fail
          #ATO_Fail
          #BOM_Fail

          30

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        I was talking to a bunch of University students yesterday, or the day before. They were going on about climate change, and how none of the political parties, apart from the Greens, had any idea, blah, blah, blah.

        So I decided on some impromptu research:

        “How much does the temperature vary throughout the day? For example, what is the difference in temperature between three in the morning, and three in the afternoon?”

        Blank looks, hmm, try a different tack: “What is the difference between the highest temperature and the lowest temperature in an average day?”

        The response was stunning: “There is only one temperature for each day, which is the maximum”.

        “Really?”, I replied. “So there is no minimum?”

        The response: “Of course there is, but it is immaterial to climate change”.

        I just thought I would share that experience, because it was something of an epiphany for me.

        40

    • #
      Peter

      Interesting bunch of statistical jiggery pokery there by the BOM.
      1) Change of exceeding the MEDIAN
      2) Rainfall percentage compared to MEAN

      The further from a Normal Distribution the data is, the further from each other those two values can be, or not, depending on lots of unstated properties of the data.

      What I find funny is how often the chance of ‘exceeding the long term average’ is used as a disaster predictor, when in a Normal Distribution, the chance of any sample being higher than the Mean is 50%.

      Yes I am also aware that dependent time series don’t usually play nice with amateur statistic.

      131

    • #
      Glen Michel

      Interesting ridiging Elgordo. Strong frontal activity over WA if transposed over NSW would make for a wild winter. All about average here temperature wise in North NSW but no Southern air mass incursions. August and September still to come. Weatherzone dropped its records for the month of August; replaced previous inclusions with vacuous dashes. Buggered if I know.

      40

    • #
      John of Cloverdale, WA, Australia

      “Climate scientists are desperate for their educated guesses to be accepted as science; so desperate that at least some climate scientists openly challenge the very keystone of science, the requirement that scientific theories must provide a means by which they can be falsified.”
      Claim: Climate Science Does Not Have to be Falsifiable

      40

    • #
      Reed Coray

      EG, as an occasional gambler I’d like to point out that knowing someone whose bets always lose is every bit as valuable as knowing someone whose bets always win. In that sense, the BOM has value.

      50

  • #
    Another Ian

    If you’ve ever wondered about running a blog

    https://thepointman.wordpress.com/2017/08/11/the-man-on-the-door/

    Hats off to Jo

    110

  • #
    Ruairi

    To call good coal plants ‘old’ is not so clever,
    When serviced as with cars, go on forever.

    The South Australia state will not be able,
    To keep the power on and keep it stable.

    All climate data records should be kept,
    For study and analysis in depth.

    When temperatures read cold, it’s not too hard,
    To make them read much warmer, with a card.

    A little ice age in the Scottish hills,
    Would have a drastic impact on windmills.

    250

  • #
    TedM

    Good value over at weatherbell.com on Joe Bastardi’s Saturday summary. Today titled the atmospheric avenger. Sound meteorology and common sense, hard to beat.

    60

  • #
    John Smith

    Here in the US, violence has broken out in Charlottesville, Virginia over the removal of a statue of the Confederate general Robert E.Lee.
    The Press insist on referring to those that are against the removal of historical statues as “white nationalists.”
    Much as the attacks on lukewarmers in the climate debate, the Left is intolerant of the middle ground and label all dissent extreme.
    If an American living today even has relatives that were in the country during our Civil War, one would have at least 16 to 32 grandparents, maybe more.
    Like all wars it was complex and difficult to understand from the perspective of today’s culture, and no matter the ethnic background, one could have embarrassing ancestors.
    I shall call this the ‘Disturbance of Sleeping Dogs.’

    133

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Say what you like about Alex Jones but he predicted this type of organised blow up months ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfSZ0LqKTU

      The left are never happy unless others are upset.

      112

    • #
      Kmac

      The trouble with destroying history is that we then don’t learn from it.

      151

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        Which is why some people want to remove “reminders” of the past, and other people are just as intent in preserving it.

        Neither side can claim to be custodians of “the truth” over the current gap of time. So by inference, they are both wrong.

        41

      • #

        Removing a ststue of Robert E. Lee is on the same moral level as the Taliban destroying statues of Buddha. Destroying history.

        122

    • #
      James Murphy

      The Australian taxpayer funded broadcaster use the term “white supremacist” in their headline. Meanwhile, they promise that, as an organisation they are balanced and fair in their reporting!
      http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-13/car-ploughs-into-crowd-at-white-nationalist-rally/8801390

      Violence, and blatant reporting bias is only driving a wedge between those on the “left”, and those on the “right”. No one deserves to die, or be injured, or persecuted for their political views, but what other course of actions will occur when there is so much support for stamping out perceived dissent and heretical views?

      143

      • #

        Macquarie Radio reported this and said that a car had been driven into a crowd and killed one and injured 19 people.
        Now when this happens in Australia we are told its a ‘lone wolf’.
        At the same time a police helicopter crashed and killed the two occupants.
        They were not sure if the N ise had done this, but the Mayor said the extremist protestors should leave the state and go back where they came from.
        I had this real sense of Deja Vu.
        Is it not the right that wants people to go back home, not the left, or so we are told.
        When helicopters crash and kill the occupants is not it assumed there was a mechanical failure, or pilot error,not that a protest plucked it from the air.
        Strikes me that Macquarie is really clutching at this.

        40

        • #
          James Murphy

          From what I understand (watching a few videos by people who were there), the group who organised the gathering had all the legal paperwork to allow them to use the park, despite having to go to court to get it.

          Before the event officially started, ‘Black Lives Matter’ and Antifa removed a lot of the barricades (and assaulted people, as they do) put in place by the police, and then the rally was declared an ‘illegal meeting’, and the event broken up, with police essentially disappearing while streets became blocked with people.

          From all accounts there were some definitively loony extremist groups present (aside from BLM and Antifa), but as always, they were the minority, while making for good photo opportunities.

          As one commentator said – there is also an element who believe that, as the media is going to label everyone as a Nazi, then they might as well look the part, which in my view, does nothing to help anyone, really.

          As for the hit and run – it has already been implied that it was conducted by a “white supremacist”, so, regardless of the truth (and maybe this is the truth, who knows?), this is how it will be remembered and reported.

          92

  • #
    Doubtingdave

    Don’t worry about North Korea , it’s a problem that China has to solve , during the election Trump pointed out that China are Currancy manipulaters , shortly after the election , Trump gained concessions whilst talking to the Chinese leader , who promised sanction against coal imports from North Korea , so Trump said CHina are no longer considered manipulators , if the Chineese government are afraid of anything , it’s not foreign aggression it’s there own people , sixty to eighty million kids graduate every year from Chinese universities , that’s a lot of well educated smart radical youngsters , that they have to find careers for . If Trump taxes imports from China and attacks them for currencie manipulators , what will happen to the Chinese economy , what will those young people do . What is the latest news , Trump has begun a commission that a federal court will prosecute China as currency manipulators again , in other words Trump is playing 3D chess when the rest of the world is playing draughts

    120

    • #
      C. Paul Barreira

      North Korea , it’s a problem that China has to solve.

      Why?

      21

      • #

        Short answer, it is on their doorstep.

        Long answer, they caused the problem, along with the USSR. (The USSR armed North Korea when it and South Korea were separated in 1945. North Korea invaded the South in June 1950, but was driven all the way back to the China border by November 1950, by UN troops. China sent 200,000 troops across the border–the Yalu river–that kept the war going and North Korea from being defeated. North Korea has been a military threat–and that alone–throughout its existence.)

        60

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          The US and Russia have Scalar tech that can dud ICBMs in flight…

          NK can launch 1000s of ICBMs, if the americans and /or russia dont want them to hit them, they can take them out at will.

          10

    • #
      Crakar24

      The Russians are good at chess.

      The Chinese are not manipulators they just happen to own vast amounts of Donalds Debts.

      What crime has Nth Korea committed that ‘merka have already committed many times over?

      40

    • #
      el gordo

      Earlier on at one of their private meetings the two leaders agreed that a carrot and stick approach might be best. Donald now has the baseball bat and swings it around in anticipation, while Xi informs Kim that China will remain neutral if you initiate the first strike.

      This should have a sobering effect, even on a dimwit.

      China will have a hard job persuading North Korea to join them in the delights of the Third Way, with its silk roads and prosperity, but there is little choice. Its the carrot or the stick.

      70

      • #
        Old44

        But this particular dimwit is a spoilt child with unlimited power over life and death in his own country and has exercised it since puberty.

        20

        • #
          el gordo

          There is a risk that any conflict would produce large collateral damage on the Korean Peninsula, so this situation is opportune for Xi to make his mark as a statesman and big supporter of world peace.

          10

  • #
    el gordo

    While homeless people are moved off the streets of Sydney there exists 120,000 brand new apartments sitting empty, its the ugly face of capitalism.

    There is now a big effort to move the empty nesters out of their mansions into new apartments. perhaps up the coast, and the cashed up new immigrants are poised to take advantage of vacant space close to the city centre.

    30

    • #
      Doubtingdave

      Modern warfare between super states is not fought on the battlefield , it’s fought economically , and in this situation America under Trump hold all the cards and hold China by the short and curlies , because they are so paranoid about there own people , you Aussies let the Chinese into your country under the guise of trade agreements , how do you think abou that now , can’t you see that you are becoming victims of a new feudal system

      52

      • #
        Peter C

        Chinese came to Australia from the 1820s as labourers in NSW and then during the Gold Rush from 1851.
        According to the Somers Nautilus (a local newsletter) junks arrived on the coast of Victoria and unloaded their passengers at night or onto secluded beaches. The Chinese then walked to the goldfields (200km or so).

        60

        • #
          el gordo

          Before Australia became a federation anybody could wander in and pan for gold, but there was a lot of xenophobia about and the Chinese were left with the tailings. They walked to the diggings in single file and regarded as oddities.

          There was an ugly riot at Lambing Flat, but I won’t go into that, the future is where its at.

          These days Chinese immigrants fly into Australia and have the capacity to influence political culture.

          50

          • #
            Another Ian

            el gordo

            Have you read Eric Rolls’s book “Sojourners”?

            20

            • #
              el gordo

              No I missed that, did he mention anything about a Chinese fleet in Australian waters around 1421-22?

              Gavin Menzies is pushing this argument and I think it has merit.

              30

              • #
                Another Ian

                “There are unproven, unprovable, but not irrational suggestions that Zheng He travelled to Australia. “Adventurers and Shepherds” Page 6

                Mentions

                Wei Chu-Hsein “The Chinese discovery of Australia” Hong Kong 1960

                and more research in that chapter including “mention of kangaroos in China 338BC”

                50

              • #
                el gordo

                Shih-zu was the reporter who wrote in 338 BC that there were kangaroos in the Imperial Zoo. Sounds like a yarn, but I’ll have a closer look.

                40

              • #
                Another Ian

                If you ever have the yen to visit Pilega Scrub National Park have a read of “A Million Wild Acres” so you know you’ll be celebrating something that wasn’t there in 1860.

                Rolls had a property in the vicinity

                20

              • #
                Robert Rosicka

                More evidence that Co2 is causing climate change than the Chinese visited here in the 1400′s .
                I remember earlier it was the Egyptian’s , then Les Siddons? The bush Tuckerman was convinced of a Dutch settlement that was supposed to be west of Alice Springs .
                A ranger near Innamincka showed us photos of rock engravings he said were from the area but were clearly of the Maori style of art .
                One things for sure the aboriginals were here first and there are not many prizes for second place .

                20

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          Victoria instituted a high tax on chinese immigrants (£10) so the ships switched unloading to Robe in SA. From there they walked overland to the goldfields. There was a place in SA near Robe on the overland trail known as Chinamans Wells but political correctness has eliminated it (although some less than PC citizens have named an area on Yorke Peninsula just that).

          70

        • #
          Old44

          Actually they landed in South Australia and walked across the border in order to avoid a landing tax that was in place at the time

          20

      • #
        el gordo

        ‘how do you think about that now’

        Not too bad, they only want power and influence.

        ‘….can’t you see that you are becoming victims of a new feudal system.’

        Outpost of empire, a quarry of sorts with an excellent financial services sector. Now that the cold war is over we could save a fortune by not having to buy Alliance fighters, the savings could go towards permanent homes for the homeless.

        10

      • #
        gnome

        I think the eastern Asians will be our protectors in the long run from the tyrannies proposed for us feudal thinkers from the Middle-east.
        They won’t put up for it in their ancestral homes and they aren’t likely to put up with it here.
        Their struggles for freedom and their progress towards free markets stand out in contrast to most of the rest of the world. I welcome their addition to our society.

        40

        • #
          el gordo

          Me too, they are bright and enthusiastic, and keen to assimilate. Not having a god to bother about, they fit in comfortably with the lapsed Christians.

          Their high rise architecture is not to my taste but closer to the ground, pulling down bungalow suburbs and replacing the houses with mac mansions, is unavoidable.

          40

      • #

        Trump understands that if you owe somebody $1000 then it’s your problems but if you owe then a billion dollars, then it’s their problem.

        70

    • #
      Dennis

      Very few city dwellers own the apartment or other dwelling they live rent in major cities of the world.

      30

    • #

      A development site bought by a Chinese land developer near me has just been put on the market again.
      They were selling straight into the Chinese mainland market, advertising on TV.
      From this I think that the housing market in Sydney is now falling.
      The blocks average 300 square metres.
      ‘Sydney there exists 120,000 brand new apartments sitting empty,’

      30

      • #
        Dennis

        Home unit building firms over estimated market demand for units in Sydney, so they have admitted. The trend had been away from houses into a range of units from studios to multi-bedroom penthouses.

        The real estate industry marketing campaign to China, Hong Kong and others is based on the inner Sydney suburbs having reached the point of being unaffordable even for people earning $100K plus a year and double high wage earner households The Chinese people in particular feel the need to park their cash in a safe location investment in case they fall foul of the Communist Chinese government. Another incentive is that the investment earns them an entitlement to a permanent visitor visa.

        By the way, Singapore has more investment in Australia than China which is 7th on the list of foreign investment sources, the UK and the US are first and second on that list.

        50

        • #
          bobl

          The chinese are long term thinkers and it is quite likely these investments are for their children or grandchildren. The market will fill them at some point.

          30

          • #
            Dennis

            I read recently that China has more than 200 millionaires

            10

            • #
              Dennis

              200 million millionaires.

              30

              • #
                gnome

                That would men one person in seven in China is a millionaire.
                Maybe we should all become communists to become wealthy?
                Or maybe we should all do gross error checks before committing numbers to print.

                20

          • #
            el gordo

            Shanghai is more expensive than Sydney, Beijing is easing the pressure on the homeland property bubble by exporting inflation.

            The apartments may have been a safe haven, a foot in the door in preparation for the next wave, linked to mass transport infrastructure. They are long term thinkers and have big plans to become part of Australia’s political culture.

            20

            • #
              Dennis

              Strange is this comment might appear, I would prefer the China regime to the United Nations version,

              10

              • #
                el gordo

                As Johnny Howard once remarked, “Be careful what you wish for.”

                Beijing would rather work with the UN in creating its new world order. They have no intention of deconstructing universal institutions like the UN, better to become a respected member of the club.

                10

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                Any regieme that executes your family member then bills you for the bullet is brutal physically and mentally…..

                Be careful what you wish for.

                20

  • #
    Doubtingdave

    Modern warfare between super states is not fort on the battlefield , it’s fort economically , and in this situation America under Trump hold all the cards and hold China by the short and curlies

    31

    • #
      Doubtingdave

      Sorry about the double post , commenting on a small tablet whilst laptop is indisposed

      30

    • #
      Peter C

      One rather scary novel about how modern warfare could be fought is the new Tom Clancy novel “Threat Vector”. Jack Ryan is the Republican President of the United States (much hated by the democrats). Jack jnr is now the CIA ops man and most of the action occurs in cyberspace! F18s still come in handy though.

      40

      • #
        Doubtingdave

        Constantine ordered hundreds of edix that created a feudal system that lasted a thousand years n Europe , is that any different from the executive orders past by Barack Obama , makes you think doesnt it

        30

      • #
        gnome

        I watched Real and Present Danger on TV on and off last night and I couldn’t help thinking that if the President in that had been a Democrat he wouldn’t have had much to fear. Exposure of criminality – so what? Who could care if the press doesn’t want to pick it up.

        Just think of this folx – if Trump can’t drain the swamp what is the future of governance in the US, and by extension, the whole of the western world?

        60

      • #
        Dennis

        I understand that the USAF now have F-22 Raptors stationed in Australian mainland RAAF bases, and other aircraft.

        10

  • #
    David Maddison

    In terms of the AGW fraud, can you think of anything comparable in history in terms of the scope of the lies and the sheer size and sophistication of the plot?

    53

    • #

      Not for sophistication of the plot (i.e., the criminal political abuse), but for depth, breadth and lifetime, it doesn’t hold a candle to the “evolution is a fact” narrative of the last century and more, all the way back to Darwin’s “Origin of Species” in 1859.

      In fact, “AGW is a fact” is just an offspring of that worldwide delusion and scientific incompetence, now stronger than ever (but unaware that its time is over, with the new knowledge, and new, yet ancient, guiding paradigm — the “Once and Future” paradigm of deliberate design of the world — my unprecedented and revolutionary research has uncovered and thoroughly verified).

      313

      • #

        come on… you can’t just diss 160 years of consistent research across a dozen disciples with the promise of your future disclosures.

        I have a unified theory that makes Einstein look like Pythagorus. I’ll tell you about it sometime, but in the meantime don’t plan any trips to Mars before I do.

        100

      • #

        Evolution is an even bigger hoax than climate change.

        Oooookay then. At least we know what we’re dealing with here.

        41

  • #
    Robert Rosicka

    Just listened to the minister for city’s and infrastructure and he’s confident that emissions will drop as electricity prices go up which will help them meet the Paris agreement.
    Seems as though this is the policy goal of all major parties these days , get the price of electricity up so high nearly all manufacturing will close down .

    Australians have been warned what where in for and where we’re headed and also why , extract you butts out of your posterior and start protesting to your local member , at least it’s doing something .
    We have no one in this country that’s electable .

    140

    • #
      David Maddison

      Yes, we will have no emissions because of no industry and enough electricity will be liberated due to the shut down that there will be enough domestic electricity from wind, solar and Big Batteries go around so long as you don’t allow heating, cooling or….electric cars…

      92

    • #
      Dennis

      My long range prediction is that the 2019 federal election (if not held earlier) will result in a 2010 hung parliament result.

      In 2010 the Gillard led Labor government lost so many seats that it could not form government in its own right and was forced into a minority alliance to form government.

      In 2013 Labor was defeated in a landslide victory for the Coalition but in 2016 that huge majority was cut back to a one new National Party seat majority return to government.

      No doubt that with the present Liberal leader and PM up front the Coalition will be fortunate to hold the position they now hold in numbers of seats, but I predict they will lose some more, notably the “Black Hand” faction MPs or rebels who have been behind the replacement of PM Abbott.

      Therefore I predict a third way to form government being an alliance grouping of Liberal, National, One Nation, Australian Conservatives, Family First, Liberal Democrats and others to keep union controlled Labor out of government.

      After all, the 2016 losses and support was not in favour of Labor.

      91

      • #
        Robert Rosicka

        That would be the best case scenario out of some unthinkable ones Dennis .
        One Nation offered so much hope but has turned into that uncle that no one wants to invite to the party .
        I wish they would just knuckle down and push some of their policy’s of which the climate policy and rising cost of electricity should be front and centre , no one I know gives a rats about Same sex marriage .
        Majority worry about the rising cost of everything and being able to put food on the table and pay the mounting bills , keeping manufacturing jobs here but more importantly being able to get a job is also up there and it’s all linked .
        We’re all whinging about it but what can we do ? Protest vote to the minor party’s is what I’m doing , who knows one nation may just hold the balance of power and that for me is the best we can hope for .

        100

        • #
          el gordo

          ‘We’re all whinging about it but what can we do ?’

          To win the balance of power outright shouldn’t be too difficult if they remain disciplined and focussed on the five things really bothering Australians.

          40

        • #
          Dennis

          I feel certain that Pauline Hanson means well and has genuine political concerns but she is not a leader or good communicator, at least not when she is in front of a television camera.

          There is little or no hope of our nation getting out of the mess we are in via governments, especially federal level, without a new or third way forward.

          Labor Green and Liberal National are too close for my comfort on too many important issues.

          Worst of all the capturing of Australia by foreign socialists wanting to control us as part of their one world government in the planning.

          90

          • #
            James

            “Xenophobia, please explain?” she said. Political parties should not have the name of a person in them. Hanson means well, but there is some baggage behind her. I agree she is not a leader or a good speaker.

            10

        • #
      • #
        el gordo

        ‘Therefore I predict a third way…’

        Not so fast, Labor has a sweetener, Bill Shorten wants the Silk Road to come down to Australia because of the jobs it would create. On this issue there is a sharp difference between the government and opposition.

        A loose alliance with the smaller parties holding the balance of power seems unlikely, but not out of the question, this type of democracy is popular elsewhere.

        Assuming the Hansonites run on a platform calling for a Royal Commission into climate science, it would bring down the whole facade, so I can’t see Malcolm forming an alliance with them.

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        • #
          Dennis

          I am not sure that Malcolm will be the leader at the next election.

          But if he is there will be enormous insider pressure and influence directed at him.

          Effectively a second defeat election after he convinced enough Liberal MPs that without him as leader their seats would most probably be lost at the 2016 election, and most did lose their seat.

          30

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            el gordo

            Tony Abbott might be the leader in waiting, from the back bench he could casually say to a reporter that he would like to see a Royal Commission into climate change science. Borrowing a piece of Hanson’s platform would help to build on any future alliance.

            The pressure on Turnbull would be significant, because it involves energy use.

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    • #

      Tony, apart from rock-hard facts, sharp detail and stone-cold reality, you offer little. No wonder you can’t get a gig on The Conversation.

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      • #

        Sometimes you wonder how a Government can have a major inquiry into going to renewables and come up with a report that says it’s doable.

        Take the Queensland Government saying that yes indeedy, they can have 50% renewables by 2030.

        Okay then, get this.

        At ANY one point in time, coal fired power in Queensland is generating and delivering between 114 and 117% of actual power consumption in the State, and no that is not a misprint.

        The States coal fired power plants (60%+ owned by that State Government) are generating 17% more power than the State is actually consuming.

        The remainder is delivered into Northern NSW.

        So, let’s actually pretend (for perhaps just one fleeting microsecond) that they actually implement this rank $tupidity, then Queensland goes black, and also NSW as well.

        And if you thought that South Aus and Victoria, and perhaps Tassie were stressed because of the closure of Hazelwood, let me tell you that the State in the most trouble is NSW.

        They consistently, virtually every hour of the day, are importing power from Queensland and Victoria, anything up to 1500MW at any one point in time. (and 1100MW of that comes from Qld, virtually all the time)

        Close down ancient old Liddell (almost as old as Hazelwood) and NSW is in dire straits.

        Having watched this data now for six weeks, and I know that is a very small time, what I am seeing is that when it comes to power scheduling, the AEMO look to me to be looking at wind power as incidental, if it’s there, good, then we need less hydro, and if Hydro is a little thin then we fired up a couple of gas fired plants, but real power to keep Australia running is basically only coming from ONE source, coal fired power.

        I thought that this task would be one of just watching and writing down numbers, and it’s actually been a revelation really, just to see what impact coal fired power really does have.

        Tony.

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          Robber

          Tony, I’m wondering whether electricity generation from gas has increased since Hazelwood closed. My sense is that in SA they are using more gas to deliver more system stability.
          For example, during August, SA fossil generation (all gas) has ranged from 400-1800 MW, average 1000 MW. (Source Anero.id)
          For July, SA gas generation varied from 400-1600 MW, average 1000 MW.
          For June, SA gas varied from 500-1800 MW, average 1200 MW. (Believe the second gas generator at Pelican Point was back in service?)
          For May, SA gas varied from 200-1500 MW, average about 900 MW.
          For April, SA gas varied from 300-1200 MW, average about 700 MW. (Note Hazelwood closed at end March).
          For March, SA gas varied from 300-1400 MW, average about 600 MW.
          For Feb, SA gas varied from 200-2000 MW, average about 600 MW.
          For Jan, SA gas varied from 300-1200 MW, average about 600 MW
          For Oct 2016, the month after the big SA blackout, SA gas varied from 100-700 MW, average 400 MW.
          For Sept 2016, SA gas varied from 0-900 MW, average 500 MW.
          For Aug 2016, 100-1200 MW, average 700 MW.

          Interesting to note that Pelican Point gas station in SA and the now shutdown Hazelwood in Vic are both owned by Engie. They shutdown Hazelwood, got more utilization for Pelican Point, and wholesale prices have doubled over the last two years.

          AEMO’s March 2017 report on SA stated: Following South Australia’s Black System event on 28 September 2016, imports from Victoria are reduced when the inertia of the South Australia power system is low. This helps protect the system high rates of change of frequency (RoCoF) associated with the non-credible loss of Heywood Interconnector, which could occur as a consequence of multiple contingencies in Victoria or South Australia. By limiting imports, more gas-powered generation (GPG) within South Australia is dispatched to provide the minimal level of thermal generation required to maintain security of electricity supply. This increased dependence on GPG to maintain system security in South Australia comes at a time when gas production is in decline and gas prices are rising

          20

        • #
          peter

          Tony,
          Last Friday, at peak hour on a windy day, SA was running gas at 1070 MW and their wind paradise was running at 895 MW. They were burning more gas than any of the eastern states even with strong wind power. On the same day, the AGL CEO, Mr Vesey, stated in the Newcastle Herald that wind and solar would replace Liddell when it closes in 2022. He gave as evidence Silverton and Coopers Gap (QLD) wind farms (neither is completed yet) with a name plate total of 665 MW – to replace a 1680 MW coal station at Liddell???? WTF? Do all Gas Co. executives fail at basic arithmetic? Should people in NSW start buying diesel generators to prepare for our liberation from burning coal for electricity?

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    • #
      Crakar24

      Can’t wait for the Annunaki to return

      30

      • #
        Dennis

        I had an over dinner conversation with an in vitro fertilisation specialist years ago and he had read the Sitchin book Genesis Revisted as I had done. He told me that the creation of a new human was accurate in procedure described but quite primitive compared to modern day.

        There is a paper that I do not have on file now that covers the research at universities in the UK and the US using placenta from childbirth mothers around the world and gene testing. The “Adam” who donated the Y gene (chromosome) that modern men carry and the “Eve” who donated created the first modern woman lived, from memory, 80,000 years apart.

        Of course at those points in our history there were other women and men is existence.

        But the research does exercise the mind as to where “Eve” came from or “Adam”.

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        • #
          Yonniestone

          Creation of a new human?, just lie back and think of Niribu luv.

          20

        • #

          If you don’t understand evolution…

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          • #

            I think Dennis was garbling a reference to the difference between nuclear DNA and mitochondrial DNA.

            I am thinking Dennis should stick with his Victoria Beckham autobiography.

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            • #

              indeed… if he doesn’t know what a haplogroup is then there is no point debating.

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              OriginalSteve

              I’d read somewhere there was a capability now to create synthesized human DNA, so in theory its possible to create a new branch if humanity…kinda scary….

              As to Creation, makes more sense than Darwin’s stab at things….

              IssacNewton was more known as a theologian than a mathematician.

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              • #
                Gee Aye

                Where did you read that? Thanks but synthetic oligonucleotides could be made in the 1980s. So what?

                Possession of a bolt doesn’t mean I can reconstruct an f16.

                The rest of what you say is barely coherent

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                Isaac Newton’s superstitious and alchemical fascinations are not what we remember him for, for the very simple reason that they produced nothing of use (he was unable to find the philosopher’s stone, nor turn any lead/charcoal/excrement into gold), whereas his maths was a major contributor to the Age of Reason.

                …and if you have a problem with making sense of either of Darwin’s two major ideas about natural selection, that is a comment not on Darwin, but on you.

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      Graeme No.3

      “David Meade, who has published a book on the subject (yes, there’s still time to rush out and buy it)” I don’t think there is any necessity to rush when it will be cheaper after the end of the world passes without people noticing.
      After all a planet with no gravity cannot have any mass, so any collision won’t make the Earth move for you.

      10

    • #

      “Nibiru” as a planet is a modern fantasy concoction. It is really just the “place of crossing” in ancient Babylonian “sacred” myth. Its true meaning is far more important than any mere planet; identifying it (as only I have done, by the way) is one clue in deciphering the entire body of ancient myth, to show the objective origin of all the “ancient mysteries” (again, as I alone have done). Of course, for (mis)educated moderns who think “the science is settled” in most areas, such talk is to be ignored. It is, however, the hard–very, very hard–truth.

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        Yes I agree. Harry is the only one. He might even be the chosen one.

        Harry, can you tell me who the twelve researchers are in an earlier blog post?

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    Crakar24

    Let’s assume the high caves in and rules the postal vote invalid we will then have two years of a debate that we don’t want in order to prevent a wave of suicides etc.

    SSM will them become an election issue, I wonder how many votes 1nation will get then?

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    • #
      Dennis

      Voters need to be reminded that traditional marriage between a man and a women was defended by PM Gillard and Senator Finance Minister Wong when Labor was in government. At this time Wong is arguing for SSM (homosexuals marrying).

      And that people regardless of opposite or same sex partnerships of people living together have the same legal protection as married men and women.

      Therefore getting “married” is another social engineering exercise and politics.

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      • #
        Crakar24

        Can’t wait until until the day I am allowed to marry 3 women, a cat, a dog, a house, a chicken only then will as be satisfied

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          Dennis

          I remember viewing a movie in which a father advised his son that if he really felt a need to get married it would be far cheaper to just buy the woman a house.

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          • #
            el gordo

            ‘… just buy the woman a house.’

            It seems that males marry for love, while females are primarily interested in romance and material security. Rationally we should do away with marriage altogether and settle for a contract signed at the Registry, because under the present arrangement half the marriages fail and leave everyone financially worse off

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          Dennis

          I thought that already happens noting the stick figures some people have on the rear window of their vehicles.

          sarc

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          Another Ian

          There was an old fellow from Rhyme
          Who married three wives at a time
          When asked why the third
          Answered “Well one is absurd
          And bigamy, sir, is a crime”

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            Annie

            I thought he came from Lyme?!

            Wasn’t that in ‘Verse and Worse’?

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            • #
              Another Ian

              Annie

              Vaguely remembered from “The Lure of the Limmerick”

              10

              • #
                Annie

                Another Ian

                I have no found the old book. The chapter on limericks is headed ‘The Frolicsome Kick of the Limerick’. The place name above should be ‘
                Lympne’. P [188] complete with illustration!

                ‘Verse and Worse’ is ‘A Private Collection by Arnold Silcock’. It was published as ‘paper covered’ by Faber Editions.

                Always one of my favourite books, my father’s too. His favourite of all was ‘The Bloody Orkneys’!

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          Graeme No.3

          You will very shortly be abused and vilified by the Wombats for Shorten, The Equal Opportunity for Emus, Gay Whales for Equality, The Worms Action Society. GetUp, the ABC, the SMH etc. will follow

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        • #
          Yonniestone

          Crakar24 you polygamous purveyor of promiscuity!

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      • #
        bobl

        Not only that but we should all bear in mind what the effect of state sanctioned gender fluidity on developing children’s minds. There is no benefit to changing the act but there are a lot of social costs especially children. The potential damage to children of a yes vote is the only thing that is assured.

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          Dennis

          Yes indeed, and the AMA (doctors union) claims to the contrary have been disputed as being deceptive.

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          • #

            Given the claim above that defacto same sex couples enjoy the same protections under the law as married couples, how can alowing marriage have any affect on children or families. How can the mere existance of a same sex married couple versus same sex couples protected by law, affect the families of opposite sex couples? How does it make a difference to the children of same sex couples?

            You can’t both say that, in essence, it changes nothing and then say it changes a whole lot of things. What would drive a changedifference in your social experience post-same sex marriage compared with before? Is it just the knowledge that “they” exist? Will your marriage be degraded by transmission of some disturbance in the ether? c’mon, what will change?

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              OriginalSteve

              Its simple – every child us entitled to both a mother and a father. That us his we are wired.

              SSM I’d a purely seflish act predicated on equality- its not- its putting adult selfishness ahead of the immutable rights of children to have a proper upbringing. In effect the whole thing is a dog-in-the -manger dummy spit.

              SS couples by their choices in life have forfeited the right to have children. Unfortunately, like spoilt kids, they want it all to hell with the consequences.

              Thus endeth the Lesson.

              20

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              Craigthomas

              It doesn’t affect other families – they’re just scraping the barrel for halfarsed arguments to support their wish that no change occurs.

              As it is their right to oppose this change , and as anybody saying “no” is being defamed and abused, I will be voting “no” in solidarity.

              Stand up to the bullies, vote No.

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          • #

            hi mods… while I am in moderation, feel free to delete “difference” from “changedifference”

            CSSM is coming!!!

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          AndyG55

          If the SSM brigade had shut up and had a quiet plebiscite (blocked by Labor) it would be done and dusted, and may have actually passed.

          Now, I’m pretty sure the public has swung firmly against it because of the bullying political attitude portrayed by the SSM brigade.

          Hence, the bullying for a vote in parliament instead.

          They know that it would get a NO vote if the people were allowed a free vote.

          This has all been a political exercise from Labor and the Greens, and the namby-pamby Turnbull has allowed them to call the agenda.

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          • #

            plebiscite was Tony Abbott’s policy that carried through.

            I’m a bit confused- “may have actually passed” and “would get a NO vote”. Please explain.

            Can you point to an instance of bullying?

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        AndyG55

        The SSM push started basically immediately Tony Abbot was elected.

        It is a massive political distraction, aimed at shouting down anything done by the Liberals.

        Tony had it mostly under control with the promise of a plebiscite, then Turnbull took over..

        …. and it all went **** because of his overwhelming weakness as a leader.

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          bobl

          I’d have to agree with that view – it’s a political football, what they call a wedge issue that pits Australian against Australian. It’s calling out fire in a crowded theatre and standing back to watch the chaos. Scant regard is given to those trampled by the needless stampede. As to who gets trampled by this stampede? it’s children.

          Shorten is the one yelling fire.

          Like the global warming issue believers think “What’s the harm” cleaner air or “greater equality” but just like AGW the cure (growing fuel poverty, de-industrialisation and national debt) is seen to be worse than the disease just as this debate demands we hand our children’s minds over to manipulation.

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        OriginalSteve

        Actually I disgree, and this is a point that seems to be lost in all this – marriage protects kids and provides a solid place to rear kids. SSM is a selfish act, IMHO, that puts adult “rights” ahead of the kids that might result from these arrangements. Yes some biological families are awful, but so what? There is no evidence i have seen that say SSM is better than normal marriage.

        Also – if you open the door to one abberation, who is to say other worse stuff may not try and follow along? Were delaing with the Left primarily, who have no concept of morality, so in theory anything can be fair game….

        Conservatism favours families, hippie communes are fine in theory but I havent seen to many people who have come out of them happy.

        I think if Oz votes for SSM, its going to get vary bad very quickly, and will rflect a clueless emotive non-discerning population that hasnt considered what may come in the future. The ancient greeks had normalized pedastry, and all sort sof awful stuff used to happen in ancient civilizations. Christianity mopped a lot of that up ( with exception of abuse by some institutions ) and imposed a moral framework that has allowed people world wide to prosper. Now the Left are intent in using SSM to undermine that moral framework and a lot of people are falling for the lie of “progressiveness”…..the same people who when their own kids are abused and they cant fight back because it would be “intolerant” to protect them will rue the day they left their brains behind the door and voted for hell on earth…..

        I shake my head…..

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      philthegeek

      The joke about ME is that this has turned into a massive own goal for the Lib/Nats. Regardless of the outcome of the HC case so far its reported that around 100 000 people have enrolled or updated their details with the AEC since this blew up. Generally, its considered a safe assumption that a lot of those will be from the younger demographics who are “not friendly” to the Lib/Nats.

      So, regardless of the outcome of the waste of time postal survey, we are looking at a surge of enrolments by the part of the population the Libs would rather have apathetic. Given the Govt is sitting on a one seat majority int he HoR (and is Barnyard a Kiwi?? :) ) AND on a pile of marginals, AND they have Tones out there exploiting ANYTHING to chip away at Turnbull……

      Conservative side of politics eating itself…..and focused on an issue they just dont have to. Popcorn please. :)

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        el gordo

        This SSM distraction has made the electorate unhappy, but because the vote isn’t compulsory the ‘soft power’ should win the day.

        We need Abbott as PM or at least minister for the environment, with the authority to rewrite climate science.

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    pat

    12 Aug: UK Express: Lord Lawson was right to condemn Al Gore’s film, says TIM NEWARK
    LORD Lawson has been strongly criticised for his attack on An Inconvenient Sequel, the latest scaremongering climate change film by Al Gore, but he is right to say our energy bills could be reduced if we cut out bogus green fuel taxes.
    Even David Cameron, as environmentally friendly a Conservative leader as you could ever get, reportedly told his government ministers in 2013 to cut the “green c***” that was driving up energy bills for households and businesses.
    It has been estimated that 13 per cent of our electricity and gas bills go towards environmental and social costs.

    Said one energy supplier recently: “We’ve been trying to explain to our customers for years that most of the extra costs on their bills is from levies we have to pay the government but we still get blamed for price hikes.” That’s bad enough for hardpressed families but the extra energy costs plus carbon taxes are making our industries uncompetitive in the world market, which means fewer jobs for our workers…ETC
    http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/840188/lord-lawson-condemns-al-gore-climate-change-film

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    pat

    posted on DrudgeReport:

    12 Aug: ClimateDepot: Global temperatures COOLER now than when Gore won Nobel Prize in 2007
    AL GORE’S POOR TRACK RECORD – Chart by Meteorologist Joe Bastardi of Weatherbell Analytics. – An inconvenient truth: Global temps were warmer when Al Gore won the 2007 Nobel Prize than today, even after the 2015/16 super El Nino.
    http://www.climatedepot.com/2017/08/12/global-temperatures-cooler-now-than-when-gore-won-nobel-prize-in-2007/

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  • #

    Okay then, let me show you something here, about the cost of electricity.

    I was in contact (via email) with a very helpful person from the AEMO this week, and we shared around 4 or 5 emails as he guided me through the process.

    Go to this link, and you’ll need to do a little for yourselves here.

    It opens at the default, and that’s NSW.

    Click on the button at top left (above the current data) for Qld, and when that opens, note the spike down. (just note it, no need to explain anything here)

    Now, at the top right, click on the button for 5 Min.

    When this page opens, this is the 5 minute demand and cost page, and again, note that huge spike downwards.

    At that spike, hover your mouse over it, and it’s a little tricky to get it exactly.

    That shows the cost for the electricity being generated in Qld at MINUS $918.15/MWH, and notice how it’s just a vertical spike which then rises back to the later price, instantaneous.

    No one ever gets paid that amount, be it a negative spike, or even a positive spike, and some commentators (usually politicians) complain how power can cost up to $3000/MWH, and again, no one gets paid that amount.

    At that time of that negative spike in Queensland, you can also see that the actual Demand (power being consumed) was 4997MW.

    At that same time, Qld was actually generating around 5600MW, 96% of that being coal fired power, so the only plants running in Qld (other than 3 tiddlers supplying local areas, also explained in those emails) were the Units at the coal fired plants.

    That extra 600MW plus was being consumed by NSW as both Interconnectors moved that Qld power to the South, and NSW was also drawing power from Victoria, as their demand exceeded their actual supply.

    So, that vertical negative spike was the current cost of power being generated in Qld, and offset by the (instantaneous) cost that Qld was receiving from NSW for the supply of power.

    As I said, no one gets that high spike cost. The spike settles back to the new level immediately, and that is due to the fact that NSW will now be running up new power plants to take back some of that Load, confirmed when you look at the NSW 5 Min data and note the smaller vertical positive spikes at (around) the same time.

    The cost is worked out on that 5 minute basis as new plants come on line to take up the load, and at the end of each half hour, the new cost for power , shown on that line under the State button comes into place and ALL generators receive that amount for the power they generated in that earlier half hour, and it changes to a new cost the next half hour and so on throughout the day.

    It’s complex, as those shared emails showed me.

    It was an interesting exercise all up.

    Tony.

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      Robber

      Tony, as I understand it, those are spot prices, nothing to do with costs. To be able to supply into the grid when there are surplus supplies available, you have to bid low, even offer to pay, in order to avoid shutting down.
      The wind is blowing strongly in SA, and they are sending max to Vic, and Vic is sending their surplus to NSW and Tas at max limits, and Qld is sending max to NSW. So NSW was the area where the major cutbacks in generation occurred.

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      • #

        Each Generating entity bids on how much they can supply their electricity for.

        Ten bids are stacked up from lowest cost to highest cost for the coming half hour.

        The bid starting time is 4AM (who would have thought, eh!)

        Those supplying before that time, and that’s 80%+ coal fired power are locked into their cost, because they are supplying all the time.

        As new power is required to make up Demand, the lowest comes in first, and then so on up that list of ten stacked up.

        At the end of the half hour, the new average is calculated from all those supplying according to their bids and amount supplied, (cost/MWH) and the cost is averaged out, and so on and so on till demand reaches a peak, and then begins to fall, and it’s last on first off, and the price settles back again to a lower average.

        And so on throughout the day.

        Each and every supplier gets the new average cost for all the electricity they supply during that previous half hour.

        The person who I shared emails with was cagy about wind power, as I expected, so I didn’t press the point, and he brought it up in passing.

        I’m of the idea that they (wind) get a set price which is figured into the average, raising it as more comes on line, but in fact, wind is classified as semi scheduled as opposed to all other plants, classified as scheduled. (provided they are greater than 30MW and not just used to supply local areas far from the major grid areas)

        The AEMO person also went to pains to mention that when it comes to wind power, those LGC’s and REC’s are a side line and not handled by the AEMO at all, so wind gets the bulk of its money from there, only getting the current cost as shown each half hour, and for what they are actually generating and delivering.

        AEMO can also dictate that wind power can also be limited in the amount it supplies to the grid, and I would think that applies to a much lesser extent in South Aus, because they have so much wind power. (well, sort of anyway)

        I hope I’ve made it a little clearer here.

        Tony.

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          James Bradley

          Tony,

          Have a look at the numbers in this Community Wind Farm 2016 Annual Report: https://www.hepburnwind.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/FY16_Hepburn-Wind-Annual-Report-.pdf

          In this case it looks as though wind power sells what little it produces at about $43/MW to its customers and sells LGC’s for each MW as compulsory sales to the retail network at about $74/KW.

          Am I wrong?

          10

          • #

            Assuming you meant $74/MWh, it’s not a “compulsory sale” as the certificate generators can hang on to the certificates if they want and the retail network can buy none if they want, just as one Queensland retailer chose to do last year.

            12

          • #
            Robber

            You are correct. This year wholesale prices have risen to over $100 with the closure of Hazelwood, so their bottom line will be a nice profit, thanks to those LGCs.

            20

          • #

            James Bradley,

            when I was in contact with the person from the AEMO, he went to pains not to comment too much about wind power. (as I mentioned)

            What was stressed however was that 30 minute change in the spot price ….. and that ALL power generators delivering at that time, during that previous half hour were paid that spot price for the power they were actually delivering to the grid.

            In other words, wind power was getting that spot price for every MWH delivered during the previous half hour. So, each little wind plant, and keep in mind they are only little when it comes to power generation, gets that spot price for their MWH delivered.

            They (wind plants) are classified as semi scheduled and can be directed to limit their supply due to constraints on the grid at any time, and at other times they ‘can’ deliver up to the maximum they can generate.

            However that is ON TOP OF the Base Load and if wind power falls away, then those other plants in the stack (bid cost stack that is) will get to come on line.

            So, the only effect a large amount of wind power has is that it will mean less gas fired plants on line.

            So, and this is the single most important thing of the whole exercise.

            Wind power has ….. ZERO effect on how much coal fired power is in use at ANY point in time, and that is why, no matter how good wind power is generating, coal fired power will ALWAYS deliver what it is capable of generating.

            So, wind power gets that spot price.

            The rest, as was told to me by that AEMO operator is worked out with the sale of those LGC’s and REC’s, and so I’m not being tricky here, let me quote you exactly what was written by that AEMO operator. (my bolding)

            In relation to renewable energy certificates (LGS, RECs etc.), AEMO is not a clearing house, as these markets operate outside of the NEM.

            So, no matter what anyone may tell you, wind power is NOT replacing coal fired power.

            And as to wind power being cheaper than coal fired power, it is actually more expensive than any method of power generation. They get the same price as all power generators do, and on top of that, they then bargain with those LGC’s and REC’s.

            (Hmm! Hasn’t TdeF been saying that all along)

            Tony.

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      Robert Rosicka

      Love your work Tony but have a question for you , those spikes come about because of too much supply or too little , pre renewable the latter would be caused by a malfunction but now could be cloud cover or a wind drop .
      As power tapers off from the renewables prices spike if we have a few key coal fired power stations off line wouldn’t that spike remain if nothing could be done to generate more power thus that spike price would remain until more power came back on line .
      Or is there a limit they can charge regardless of circumstance.

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      • #

        Robert,

        I think I covered some of what you asked in the above comment reply to Robber.

        Those bid prices are locked in to what they bid, and there’s no gaming that I could envisage as they have ten bids stacked up all the time, so there is competition. If they bid too high, they are either last on or do not even make the list of the ten bids.

        With respect to those coal fired power plants, there are 16 of them, and 48 Units in all. Now that I am watching this on a daily basis, and each day I can see what has happened across the full 24 hours, I have noticed that the Units in operation are very (very squared) carefully monitored. One Unit at one plant will (in nearly every case) not go offline, for maintenance mostly, unless the earlier one that was offline is either already coming back on line, or close to it.

        Victoria has only had one Unit, two at most, offline in the last 6 weeks.

        NSW will have three max down at any on time, and it’s always one of those four Units at the old Liddell plant.

        I have seen four Units down at one time in Qld, but mainly three of them.

        Those SuperCritical plants (all four in Qld with six Units) are rarely down, and when they are, it’s basically just 24 to 36 hours only, and that was One Unit at Callide for 24 hours, Kogan Creek for 36 hours and Tarong North for 24 hours. Milmerran (2 Units) has not varied once from max power over these last 6 weeks.

        I would think that those huge spikes have very little to do with actual supply from coal fired plants as they are running and generating virtually all the time.

        As a new plant comes on (via that bid process) then the cost spikes (instantaneously) and then settles back to the new average.

        I might think that ALL the extra cost associated with wind power are those LGC’s and REC’s, and as that is not reflected at that AEMO site, then unwitting true b’leevers of wind can point to the AEMO cost site and say that wind really isn’t all that expensive really. It’s all hidden from view, and all added to the retail cost for electricity

        Coal fired power has no need to game the system because it is always there generating and supplying from the base. All the others are what get stacked in those groups of ten ON TOP of coal fired power.

        It’s also why I have noticed that even on good days of wind power generation, coal fired power just kept generating and supplying what it always did.

        Tony.

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          Robert Rosicka

          Thanks Tony , I think I get it now .
          Have just given the gennie a birthday , new oil and clean air filter , test start and run so bring on summer , must talk to my sparkie about hooking it up to the house if need be but with the solar might be better off just running leads to the fridge and water pump .

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    Dennis

    Yesterday a friend told me that she had been talking to a neighbour who brought up the cost of electricity. My friend tried to explain the reasons why the price is so high and continuing to rise.

    The neighbour replied that the end is in sight because: “they are installing a great big battery”.

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    Dennis

    The BoM have let me down again today, according the TV news last night midcoast NSW where I am located would be into the low twenties today, at 1.17 pm the temperature here outside is not even at 20C.

    Might as well stop funding them and issue us with home weather stations to monitor.

    sarc.

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      Dennis

      Now 2.17 pm and the outside temperature has dropped almost one degree since 1.17 pm, and the Sun is shining.

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    Peter

    This is interesting (the volcanos are going to make climate change worse!):

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/12/scientists-discover-91-volcanos-antarctica

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    • #
      el gordo

      The Guardian warmist angle is ever present, but this is good news for us.

      “We were amazed,” Bingham said. “We had not expected to find anything like that number. We have almost trebled the number of volcanoes known to exist in west Antarctica.

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        Peter

        Well obviously they didn’t exist before, so haven’t been having any effect before… ;)

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        • #
          Richard111

          Ah well, another global warming, I mean climate change, positive feedback loop the proves we are all doomed. /sarc

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      Rereke Whakaaro

      They found, “91 volcano’s”?

      How did they establish that they were separate and distinct volcano’s?

      It could be one caldera with 91 major vents, could it not?

      And how many of these volcano’s are actually active? And if they are active, why didn’t they melt the ice directly above, making them easier to spot, as it were?

      And did they find these 91 volcano’s all at the same time, or over a period of years?

      When you can ask such a string of pertinent and impertinent questions for which there are no apparent answers, then it probably isn’t real.

      Always happy to be proven wrong though, because that is how science progresses.

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        Graeme No.3

        Reeke Whakaaro:

        I am surprised that you didn’t realise that the post boxes outside each volcano were numbered. It is true that No. 13 and 17 had to have some additions, e.g. 13a & 13b and 17a, 17 b and 17c but the climatologists in this case could do simple arithmetic (unlike some) and could add up to 91, (unlike others).

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        el gordo

        ‘It could be one caldera with 91 major vents, could it not?’

        If that’s the case then it might have been the catalyst to bring the planet out of the Last Glacial Maximum, its fingerprint would show up in the ice cores.

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          el gordo

          I was thinking of the geothermal heat from submarine volcanic activity and not volcanic eruptions. A good example of the phenomenon was observed in the north west Pacific a few years ago, named The Blob.

          The warm water was created by Axial Seamount and it moved around awhile before eventually losing its blob status.

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            Rereke Whakaaro

            Really? You’re kidding me. We all know that Axial Seamount is a Finnish rock star and lead singer in “The Blob”, and pretty hot too, in the way he moves around.

            Don’t tell anyone, but I reckon that Craig Thomas is a bit of a groupie.

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      Curious George

      Easy. Let’s ban volcanoes.

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  • #
    Robert Rosicka

    Now let me see if I have this right , you raise the royalty on coal 300% , you allow a perfectly good power station close down and you need an inquiry as to why power prices have risen so much .
    I never voted for this communist rabble so you’ve got some splaining to do .

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      Rereke Whakaaro

      Was the perfectly good power station closed down, or was it blown up?

      There is a difference in direction, don’t you see?

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    pat

    front page of Qld Sunday Mail today.
    question: what happens after the 24-month contract expires?
    is the Govt subsidising this deal in some way?
    not sure what to make of it as yet:

    13 Aug: Sunday Mail: Queensland power prices: Government returns to electricity market
    by Michael Madigan
    QUEENSLANDERS are about to get a reprieve from soaring electricity prices with potential discounts of up to $350 on offer as the State Government returns to the electricity market after a decade long absence.
    Alinta Energy, headquartered in Perth, will enter the market this week in partnership with Queensland Government-owned CS Energy, providing electricity to residential and small commercial industrial consumers in the Energex distribution area in the southeastern corner.
    A 25 per cent, two-year discount will be offered to new customers, saving an average household an estimated $350 on their bill across the 24 months.
    Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk, stung into action by soaring power prices which have left about 460 Queenslanders a week being disconnected, plans to shake up the market by forcing an electricity price war among retailers…

    “Now is the time for all retailers to step up and see if they can match these lower price offers,’’ Ms Palaszczuk told The Sunday Mail.
    “They are welcome to discuss potential opportunities with our government-owned generators for similar creative and structured products.”…

    It’s a case of back to the future for the Labor Government which, under then premier Peter Beattie, sold the retail arms of electricity outfits Ergon and Energex in 2006 after Treasury advised him electricity prices would drop.
    Mr Beattie admitted in 2013 he had been naive…

    Ms Palaszczuk said it was doubtful a similar plan could have been hatched under an LNP Government.
    “If the LNP had its way it would have sold off our energy assets to private owners whose sole focus would be shareholders, not Queensland consumers.’’…

    While the new offer won’t extend into northern reaches of the state just yet, the government is providing $488 million over the next year for its Uniform Tariff Policy – a community service obligation to maintain price parity between the regions and southeast Queensland.
    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/queensland-government/queensland-power-prices-government-returns-to-electricity-market/news-story/fb28ddbc436dbef0286274bb9cff4dd9

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      Robber

      How does the Alinta deal add up? Save $350 over 2 years, so $175/year. That saving is reported as a 25% discount. So are Qld electricity bills only $700/year? Elsewhere I saw reported that the average household electricity bill in Qld was $1500/year.

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    • #

      How lucky is Queensland.

      At any one time, power generators are consistently generating 1000MW more than the State is actually consuming. That power is sold into Northern NSW.

      While there are 8 coal fired power plants with 23 Units, around 60% of that power being generated comes from plants owned by two State Government Corporations, CS Energy and Stanwell.

      So, having sold off their retail arms, thanks to Labor’s Peter Beattie, they are now getting back into that market.

      So, they sell themselves their own power and then sell it on at retail, as well as selling it to the private retailers as well. (looks like a win win for the Government to me)

      I hope Rockhampton counts as South East Queensland.

      Note also where pat mentions that:

      While the new offer won’t extend into northern reaches of the state just yet…..

      There’s no coal fired power North of Rockhampton with Stanwell just 20Km from where I sit being the furthest North, but hey, the Government is going to fund that 4 MilliWatt solar plant near Collinsville, so that’ll help in the North eh!

      The current situation in Qld is that the State is generating 6600MW with consumption at 5500MW.

      Coal fired power is supplying 89% of the current demand in the State and 91% of total generation. That 600MW from 7 gas fired plants is supplying local areas away from the main grid, and as for renewables there’s 30MW from Hydro, and 20MW from solar, and that’s it.

      50% Renewables by 2030. I’m still laughing!

      Tony.

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        Dennis

        Queensland voters should ask questions and dig deeply to find out how much debt the government owned private companies have on their books.

        When the New South Wales Labor government sold off half of the electricity companies, valuation minimum $12 billion, sold for $5.9 billion not long before Labor lost office, a loss of $6.1 billion for taxpayers for their assets sold, there was debt repaid hidden off government budget in the company accounts.

        When the debts and interest were retired all that was left was $800 million proceeds of sale.

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          Dennis

          I forgot to explain that the debt was used to pay the Labor state government extra dividends used to reinforce government budget bottom line results.

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    el gordo

    There is a story over at WUWT on landlocked glaciers behaving badly, increasing mass balance isn’t in the script. Found this gem from earlier this year (Wellington University).

    ‘At least 58 New Zealand glaciers advanced between 1983 and 2008, with Franz Josef Glacier (Kā Roimata o Hine Hukatere) advancing nearly continuously during this time.

    “Glaciers advancing is very unusual—especially in this period when the vast majority of glaciers worldwide shrank in size as a result of our warming world,” says lead-author Associate Professor Andrew Mackintosh from Victoria’s Antarctic Research Centre.

    “This anomaly hadn’t been satisfactorily explained, so this physics-based study used computer models for the first time to look into it in detail.

    “We found that lower temperature caused the glaciers to advance, rather than increased precipitation as previously thought. These periods of reduced temperature affected the entire New Zealand region, and they were significant enough for the glaciers to re-advance in spite of human-induced climate change.”

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      RickWill

      These periods of reduced temperature affected the entire New Zealand region, and they were significant enough for the glaciers to re-advance in spite of human-induced climate change.

      This is one of the best confirmations for an alternate reality I have seen. The “human-induced climate change” is not questioned despite the observations showing otherwise.

      Surely with glaciers advancing and temperature being colder the obvious conclusion would be that it is indeed colder. It follows that increasing CO2 in not causing warming!

      Of course there could be a touch of sarcasm in the statement from Wellington University.

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        Robber

        No no Rick, it’s climate change not global warming. Any change is due to us humans. /sarc

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        el gordo

        Rick the Kiwis are well known for their terrific sense of humour, but these characters aren’t joking.

        https://www.victoria.ac.nz/science/about/news/explaining-new-zealands-unusual-growing-glaciers

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          Raven

          See . . any “climate variability” is still down to us humans.
          I wonder if anyone is in charge of these people.

          Associate Professor Mackintosh says the climate variability, which includes the cooler years, still reflects a climate that’s been modified by humans.

          “It may seem unusual—this regional cooling during a period of overall global warming—but it’s still consistent with human-induced climate change. The temperature changes were a result of variability in the climate system that’s specific to New Zealand.

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    pat

    Sunday Times picks up the story:

    13 Aug: UK Sunday Times: Mark Macaskill: ‘Wind farms that lie idle and get millions’
    More than £300m has been paid in compensation for wind turbines to lie idle in Scotland, sparking calls for an end to the green energy “subsidy junket”.
    John Constable, director of the Renewable Energy Foundation, claims that since 2011, about £328m has been paid to wind farms not to generate — most of them in Scotland.
    In an article online, Constable argues that Scotland’s 3,000 wind turbines produce more energy than is needed north of the border. The remoteness of many wind farms means the power they generate cannot be transported to England and Wales.

    Consequently, turbines are routinely powered down to avoid producing excess energy, yet operators are still paid generous subsidies via consumers’ bills.
    Constable urges the Westminster government to “put its foot…
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/wind-farms-that-lie-idle-and-get-millions-5kfgm8bd8

    Goldstein on BBC’s “Carbon Counting” program:

    12 Aug: Toronto Sun: The great carbon scam
    We pay to reduce our emissions, other nations hide theirs
    By Lorrie Goldstein
    http://www.torontosun.com/2017/08/12/the-great-carbon-scam

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    Rod Stuart

    A prototype of the Lilium has apparently been successful.

    I’m surprised Willard hasn’t been crowing about it.
    Apparently, the name comes from Lilienthal, and not Lithium.

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    • #
      Dennis

      Welcome aboard passengers, for those of you who are technically minded and for all passengers we would like to explain how your Lilium transporter operates … to begin, every system on board is duplicated for your safety, no one failure can cause problems in flight, even this computer has a back up.

      There is nothing to worry about … worry about … worry about … worry about …

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      Yonniestone

      Lilium, sounds like something Herman Munster would get excited about….

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    Dennis

    With due consideration for the leftist leanings of the Australian MSM, television highlighted or spotlighted, given that a Coalition government can never expect support in any meaningful way from private or public broadcasters why pander to them?

    Deal with the ABC as they need to be dealt with.

    And reimpose the licence fees that Rudd Labor cut for them in return for favours.

    I understand the combined total amounted to $250 million in a full year. That was in the period 2008/09 so just using 2009 they have enjoyed the savings for 7-years so far and have saved $1.75 billion.

    The gift that keeps giving in two directions.

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    pat

    shameless. rather like the ABC, who write “fuel poverty” articles as if they care, without EVER mentioned the costs of CAGW policies.
    this piece is a disgrace:

    12 Aug: SMH: How rising energy costs became our problem, not the government’s
    by Larissa Nicholls
    (Dr Larissa Nicholls is a research fellow at the RMIT Centre for Urban Research)
    We know that increasing numbers of households are being disconnected because they cannot pay energy bills…
    What we don’t talk enough about is the impact of these strategies on wellbeing. As part of RMIT University’s recent research for the Victorian Council of Social Service (Power Struggles), I talked to Melbourne residents about the things they do to keep on top of energy bills. Their stories are not only concerning – they are heartbreaking…

    Households should be able to heat their home in winter. We need to stop blaming households for high energy bills…
    Power Struggles was released this week and can be downloaded here (LINK)
    http://www.smh.com.au/comment/how-rising-energy-costs-became-our-problem-not-the-governments-20170810-gxtkft.html

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    pat

    sad to say, but these two piece are no better. not a hint about CAGW policies in either. the first appears to be an editorial:

    13 Aug: Sunday Herald Sun: Power to the people
    However, the results we publish today from a special poll of more than 2100 readers reveal much more work is required to deliver a fair go for the many Victorians drowning in the sea of never-ending bills. The alarming reader poll outcome suggests too many families feel on the brink, with some battlers reportedly paying upwards of $4000 a year to cover utilities. Some admitted sacrificing holidays or scrimping on food to stay afloat. Others said wage rises were a distant memory not experienced for up to three years, further exacerbating budget shortfalls…

    What is surprising is that, in such a climate, the Turnbull Government is pressing ahead with plans to cut power subsidies for our most vulnerable citizens. More than 400,000 age pensioners and 138,000 single parents will miss out on a payment of up to $550 a year if plans to scrap a supplement designed to help families pay energy bills get past the Senate.

    The federal government hopes to bank nearly $1 billion by axing the Clean Energy Supplement for welfare recipients who started receiving the pension, unemployment benefits or other welfare payments from September 20 last year. Estimates in government documents suggest more than 1.7 million welfare recipients will receive reduced payment rates if the reform goes ahead. The energy supplement is worth $14 a fortnight or $365 a year for a single, and pensioner couples could be $21.20 a fortnight worse off or $550 a year.

    So on the one hand, Prime Minister Turnbull claims he is working to ensure no family pays a cent more for electricity than it needs to — and yet on the other, his government is axing a scheme that helps struggling pensioners and other welfare recipients keep their lights and heating on.

    The ludicrous situation is yet another unfortunate reminder of how our politicians — be they from Canberra or Spring St — are disconnected from the real world, as their cloistered lives insulate them from the travails of daily life…
    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/power-to-the-people/news-story/723c8d337c24a4d9691fd31e29486d8f

    ***even a reference to the “carbon tax” leaves out “carbon”!

    12 Aug: Sunday Herald Sun: Rising living costs push families to the brink
    by KIERAN ROONEY
    EXCESSIVE power bills are crippling household budgets, and Victorians are going without food, heating and doctors visits to keep the lights on.
    One in 10 is skipping meals because of bills, while 65 per cent of people have been unable to go on holidays.
    Almost one-fifth of Victorians are now spending more than $4000 on utility bills every year.

    A Sunday Herald Sun poll of more than 2100 readers found that bills were out of control.
    Eighteen per cent of respondents indicated they spent more than $4000 on utilities, such as power and gas, each year. Three-quarters of those surveyed were spending more than $2000 annually…

    But the pain is set to get worse, as experts predict a power price rise of about 10 per cent next year.
    St Vincent de Paul Society policy and research manager Gavin Dufty said electricity made up a considerable part of these rising costs…

    MORE than 400,000 age pensioners and 138,000 single parents will miss out on a payment worth up to $550 a year as the Turnbull Government pushes ahead with plans to scrap a supplement designed to help families pay energy bills…
    Despite skyrocketing power prices, more than 2600 widows and 200,000 students will also receive the reduced rate after the payment is scrapped.
    The government documents also reveal more than 109,000 people on the disability support pension will be moved to the lower rate…

    But the government will struggle to get the supplement axed, as Labor, the Greens and the Nick Xenophon Team are expected to vote against the legislation.
    “It is reasonable to expect that parliament would support ending a compensation payment for a ***tax that no longer exists,” Social Services Minister Christian Porter said.
    “The government will continue to push the strong case for removing the supplement, given that it compensated for a tax that the Coalition has scrapped — a position supported by Labor at the last election when it included the savings from the measure in its costings document.”…
    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/rising-living-costs-push-families-to-the-brink/news-story/0fbb2ee7ab01a2af8f7388044543cdab

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    pat

    ditto ABC. not a hint of any CAGW policies being partly responsible for rising cost of electricity.
    in fact, all the pieces I’ve posted seem designed to intentionally obscure that fact:

    13 Aug: ABC: Victoria’s ‘unusually high’ electricity, gas prices should be reregulated, review finds
    By Kathy Lord
    Victorians are paying, on average, 21 per cent more than the cheapest price on offer for electricity and gas, according to a bipartisan review into the state’s electricity and gas retail markets that recommends regulating power prices again, eight years after they were deregulated.

    The recommendation is one of 11 measures put forward to drive down prices, protect consumers and “put people first”, Energy Minister Lily D’Ambrosio said…
    The Andrews Government launched the bipartisan review into the state’s electricity and gas retail markets last November, which was headed by former MPs Terry Mulder and John Thwaites.
    It looked at whether the electricity and gas retail markets were working in the best interests of Victorians…

    One of the authors of the report, former Labor MP John Thwaites said implementing the recommendations could save people around $200 on their power bills.
    He said the costs of competition were so great that numerous extra costs were added and consumes had to pay for those costs.

    “Competition does generally drive down costs. Now we’ve had 10 years of that experiment and it hasn’t worked as we expected,” he said.
    “It’s an essential service. People can’t exit the market.
    “So there’s no constraint on prices if they go up and up people have to keep paying those higher prices.”

    Victorians ‘fleeced’ by power barons…
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-13/victoria-energy-review-recommendations/8801720

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    pat

    13 Aug: SMH: Lucy Cormack: Solar panels inactive for five years, after crucial form failed to reach retailer
    William Holdsworth’s solar panels were on his roof for five years before he realised they were never connected to the grid.
    It was 2011 and then aged 75, Mr Holdsworth was looking for a way to reduce his household expenses.

    VIDEO: 2mins12secs: FROM ABC: Maximising your solar panels
    New energy data readers are helping households around Australia combat high electricity bills by ensuring solar power is prioritised in the home is not sent to the grid.

    He spent about $3000 on the solar system, but he’s yet to see the savings on his electricity bill.
    Today, the panels lie dormant on his roof; now redundant due to changes in standards since 2011…

    Six months ago, his son took a closer look at the most recent electricity bills for his home on the outskirts of Melbourne.
    He found no savings had been realised in five years, because a crucial Certificate of Electrical Safety, required to finalise the connection, was never received by Mr Holdsworth, the retailer or the distributor.
    “Being a pensioner … it hurts, because $3000 is a lot of money to me,” Mr Holdsworth said…

    Emails from the installation company Solargain to Mr Holdsworth’s retailer in March said the relevant paperwork was sent to all parties in 2011, but now it was “unfortunately unable to provide any documents” to complete the installation…

    Advisers from the Consumer Action Law Centre, who have assisted Mr Holdsworth with his case since February, said the fact the requisite paperwork was never received showed the system connection was never completed…
    The centre is calling for a mandatory code to be implemented to monitor the solar industry.

    “There’s no compulsory requirement for these companies to be part of an ombudsman scheme,” said policy officer Jake Tilley.
    “This is because regulation isn’t keeping up with new products and services … people are buying what they think is energy service, but the reality is it’s not covered by the protections available in the traditional market.”…

    While there are 550 business and 4500 installers listed within the Clean Energy Council member base, just 47 retailers have voluntarily signed up to the council’s Solar Retailer Code of Conduct…
    Mr Holdsworth is one of 25 consumers with solar-related cases to contact the centre in the past three months.

    In NSW, Fair Trading has received almost 1000 complaints about solar panels and solar-related products since January last year.
    Most complaints relate to defective or unsatisfactory goods or work, closely followed by non-supply of goods and services…

    “We’ve heard multiple stories of door-to-door sellers making ridiculous claims, often dishonestly claiming that a household will never have to pay for energy again if they get solar panels.”…
    http://www.smh.com.au/business/consumer-affairs/solar-panels-inactive-for-five-years-after-crucial-form-failed-to-reach-retailer-20170804-gxpdly.html

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      pat

      followup.
      if the ABC video (which is a promo for a firm called Paladin), does not play at SMH, here it is in full on MSN, with TRANSCRIPT, CLICK “READ MORE”:

      VIDEO: 2mins12secs: MSN: ABC: New energy data readers are helping households around Australia combat high electricity bills
      Paladin Solar Australia Director Mark Robinson – “The idea is to keep the hot water topped up and in a normal household situation through the night, there will be enough hot water to see you through. It can divert in a 50th of a second, or power back to the hot water cylinder watt for watt. It does not need to wait for excess solar to match the size of the hot water element.”…

      Curtin University sustainability expert Dev Tayal – “Big data allows households to opt immise the — optimise the electricity use and the solar panels on the roof versus what they export back to the grid and what they might store if and when batteries come back in price.”…
      https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/new-energy-data-readers-are-helping-households-around-australia-combat-high-electricity-bills-by-ensuring-solar-power-is-prioritised-in-the-home-is-not-sent-to-the-grid/vp-AApudSw

      the ABC reporter is Kathryn Diss. here is a far lengthier version of the story with a shortened video:

      6 Aug: Solar panels innovation gives round-the-clock power without pricey battery storage
      By Kathryn Diss
      Imagine if energy from your solar panels could give you hot water around the clock without the need to buy an expensive battery storage unit.
      That concept is already a reality, with cost-cutting energy devices which leverage the power of “big data” helping households get more out of their solar panels by effectively using their hot water system as a battery.
      Now, rapid advances in the technology have made that system far more efficient, and are allowing homeowners to save much more…
      The devices, which cost around $790, utilise “big data”, which is the collection of extremely large data sets that are computer-analysed to reveal patterns and trends…

      “Big data allows households to optimise their energy use and allows people to have more control of what electricity they use from the solar panels,” Curtin University sustainability expert Dev Tayal said.
      “As electricity prices rise and as some of the more generous rebates and feed-in tariffs wind back, we’re only going to see an increased uptake of smart intelligent devices…”

      The (Jukes) household of six are trialling a new device called Paladin, designed to make sure 95 per cent of their solar power is used in their home and not sent to the grid…READ ALL
      http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-06/big-data-devices-get-more-free-energy-from-sun/8774584

      if u click on Kathryn’s name, u get a short bio plus all her recent work:
      Kathryn Diss is a general news reporter, specialising in business and resources. She is also a regular contributor to the television current affairs program 730 WA. Kathryn joined the ABC in 2010 after completing a journalism degree at Curtin University in Perth.

      this is almost all of Kathryn Diss’s recent ABC output:

      How to slash your power prices — by using your hot water system as a battery
      Posted 6 Aug 2017

      Global electric car revolution fuels WA lithium boom (photos)
      Posted 29 Jul 2017

      Why everyone wants lithium all of a sudden Explainer
      Posted 7 Jul 2017

      Moving off the energy grid in regional WA (photos)
      Posted 11 May 2017

      WA rooftop solar to triple, renewables to hit 44pc: report
      Posted 28 Apr 2017

      Rooftop solar growth could send WA power tariffs soaring: study
      By Kathryn Diss and Tom Wildie
      Posted 8 Feb 2017, 8:04am
      West Australian consumers could face huge power price hikes in the coming years unless the State Government starts to factor in the exponential growth of renewable energy, a new study finds.

      West Australians embrace solar panels at record rate (photos)
      Posted 31 Jan 2017

      Solar panel owners turn to vanadium ‘electrolyte fluid’ battery
      Posted 8 Dec 2016

      IS THIS WHAT TAXPAYERS ARE PAYING ABC TO REPORT, OR IS THIS SOME PET ISSUE OF THE STAFF MEMBER?

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      Robert Rosicka

      When I bought my system it was just to reduce my bill not to break even or have no bill like the slick salesperson tried to infer .
      Lot of baloney was laid on including how much daylight it would function at 100% efficiency , and the 5000 watt was minimum I’d get , I now know better and only regret I didn’t put up another four panels .

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      joseph

      Can’t imagine why they don’t interview Christopher Booker on the ABC . . . . .

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      Annie

      A very good article but a pity that it’s largely been ignored in the 6 and 1/2 years since it was published.

      I well remember that wind turbine at Green Park by the M4 at Reading! Wretched thing.

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      • #

        I remember that one too. What a great sight.
        Always hoped they’d build a dozen more, but the UK government was doing its best to obstruct the building of turbines in order to push electricity prices up so they could justify £30billion of uncompetitive new nuclear power plants that had been lingering on the backburner since the 1970s.

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          Rereke Whakaaro

          … the UK government was doing its best to obstruct the building of turbines in order to push electricity prices up so they could justify £30billion of uncompetitive new nuclear power plants …

          I am going to call you out on this one, Craig. You make a very big claim, so you will need to provide some supporting evidence.

          Please supply all pertinent references to the appropriate documentation, including the Cabinet Minutes, that support what you claim. Given the elapsed time, they should all be declassified by now.

          Also include all pertinent references to the documentation that shows the planned nuclear power plants would be uncompetitive, especially since they were specifically designed to meet the expanding base-line requirements, that could not be met by wind alone.

          Lets see if you can put some real intelligence where you mouth-parts are.

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            Sorry, Rereke, I keep forgetting that you enjoy commenting on things you appear to have done little research on.

            The UK government was committed to building new nuclear power plants, but the price guarantee they had to give the nuke operators was way above electricity prices, which caused them political problems. Every slight closing of that gap between the cost of electricity and the minimum price the nuke operator needed to be viable was taking the heat off them for what was going to be a very hefty nuke subsidy. They did everything they could to drive prices up, including obstructing wind turbines as much as possible because wind farms keep pushing down the price of electricity.

            http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/household-bills/10414889/Insane-power-station-deal-will-raise-electricity-prices-for-decades-to-come.html

            “The deal effectively guarantees that the operators of Hinkley Point will get a minimum price for the electricity it generates, no matter what other forms of power cost. The Liberum analysts estimated that this minimum price would be more than £121 per megawatt hour. Wholesale prices were about £60 last year, according to Ofgem, the energy regulator.
            This means that, in order for Hinkley to avoid supplying overpriced electricity when it starts operating in 10 years’ time, the wholesale price of gas would have to increase by about 127pc over the period. This is equivalent to an oil price of well above $200 a barrel, compared with about $110 this week.”

            https://www.ft.com/content/d6353f68-f38e-11e6-8758-6876151821a6?mhq5j=e1

            “Strike prices represent a premium over the wholesale cost of electricity — which has averaged about £45 per megawatt hour over the past year — guaranteed to power plant developers as an incentive for urgently needed new capacity.

            One senior figure in the nuclear industry said government had made clear that NuGen and Horizon must agree a “significantly” lower price than the £92.50/Mwh promised to EDF, the French utility, for electricity from Hinkley Point for 35 years. The Hinkley strike price is now worth about £100/Mwh because it was set in 2012 and linked to inflation.

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              Graeme No.3

              Craig Thomas:
              I keep being reminded that you enjoy commenting on things you appear to have done little research on. Indeed so little that you didn’t even read Rereke’s questions.
              You did get one thing right, the UK government is hindering new turbine installation by reducing the subsidies they get. This is because those “cheap” renewables keep forcing the cost of electricity UP. If they wanted to boost the cost to the consumer the quickest way would be to maintain the subsidies that wind turbines get, along with the subsidies to burning wood (even though it increases CO2 emissions), and the subsidies to those stinking environmental disasters the biogas generators.
              You don’t care about the environment, nor about reducing CO2 emissions…. I’ve deleted the rest to get this comment past moderation.
              And on that note I suggest MOD that it is time that this ignorant time wasting troll be banned (and bad luck if he no longer gets paid for his drivel).

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              Rereke Whakaaro

              Thank you Craig. It would have been useful for the majority of readers of Jo’s blog, if you had included those details earlier, instead of trying to demonstrate what a supercilious Smart Alec you are.

              And since you referenced that Telegraph article, let me just say that Richard Evans seems to have become a bit confused.

              I have personal experience, in 2011 and 2012, regarding some of the discussions, behind this deal, because I was working for one of the companies involved, at the time.

              The “minimum price” is not a minimum, but rather a base price, to pay for the base load that must always be present on the grid, to keep essential services, like hospitals, rail systems, traffic lights, airport radar and lighting, etc., operating. Whatever else happens on the grid, it must be over and above that base energy requirement. All that is negotiated within the “base price”.

              Now, I assume that I was counted as one in the number of “respected analysts”, but if so, my views differ wildly from those of the Telegraph.

              Power requirements, over and above the base load, should be covered by the “renewable” component in the mix – wind, tide, solar. etc. Each being negotiated on price depending upon the the technology, and capital investment, involved. The “renewable” pricing is over and above the base load pricing, and is billed at cost, at a price per unit that is higher than base load price. It is the Government guaranteeing a minimum return on the renewable plant owners, far into the future, that appears to push the overall price up. It is my understanding that was what the Liberum analysts were alluding to, and the Telegraph have managed to get it base over apex.

              With the base load being fixed in price, the statement, “the Government is taking ‘a massive bet’ that the cost of fossil fuels such as oil and gas will rise dramatically”, takes on some meaning, in that they will tend to fall out of the mix if wind, solar, and tide, et al can rise to the challenge at a lower price point.

              Nuclear has high capital costs but low operating costs. Wind and solar and tide have moderate capital costs, low operating costs, but intermittent availability. Fossil fuels such as coal, oil, and gas have high capital costs, and moderate to high operating costs, and stable availability, if slowly diminishing. When coal runs out, people will be glad that there is a stable base load, like nuclear, to take its place.

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          Rereke Whakaaro

          Not “expanding base-line requirements”, but rather, “expanding base-load requirements”.

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    Robert Rosicka

    Have noticed something unusual this year , the swimming pool has not turned green with algae like it usually does , normally two weeks after I stop the chlorine it goes green but this year it’s still clear , not crystal clear but pretty close and no algae .
    I don’t bother to winterise the pool or cover it but did put bird mesh over it this year to catch the bigger leaves all of which were under water .

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      el gordo

      ‘…pool has not turned green with algae…’

      It needs iron dust and when it turns green it doubles as a carbon sink.

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    Another Ian

    For South Australians to compare

    “Ontario—how not to centrally plan the power system”

    https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/ontario-how-not-to-centrally-plan-the-power-system

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    Roger

    Have all of the global temperature records had early 20th century readings reduced ?

    Interesting comments and information in the comments to a current article over at WUWT. Kicked off by Gary Pearse at 5.11pm, and some way down the comments :

    “Questions beg an answer. Shouldn’t we know if this is global? Shouldn’t climate science have been interested in the answer. Doesn’t it weaken the concept of G Warming to not think or even care if their are global congruities to major, durable changes visible in such important records? I believe you could know the answer to this question with a days research.

    Here is a raw record from Capetown that looks like it came off Tony Hellers blog showing an identical US record where the 1930s are the highest temperatures of the century. If these raw temperatures are roughly identical, are they not powerful corroboration for one another? Greenland, Iceland, Siberia, Australia(?) also look the same. Am I in line for becoming the father of climatology?”
    (Link

    Geoff Sherrington at 7.38pm picks up on this in a new comment with some useful graphs:
    “All Australians know that heatwaves have become, hotter, longer and more frequent. That is the official line. Unfortunately, it is not so for most Australian capitals.”

    It can be argued that the historic records from perhaps a handfull of weather stations potentially need adjustment to account for moves in location etc., but that cannot apply to all. Many are well aware that the raw temperature data for Australia shows cooling since around the late 1930s / 40s. Seemingly South Africa, USA, Greenland, Siberia, UK and elsewhere all show the same trend in the raw temperature data.

    All have been subject to ‘adjustment’ and ‘homgenisation’ by climate ‘scientists’ to the extent that the cooling trend has been reversed to show ‘warming’.

    What is the likelihood that All of these raw records were ‘wrong’ ? I think that 97% of the public and 100% of genuine scientists would consider that so unlikely as to be implausible if not downright impossible.

    Is that an area someone could research and write up ?

    Another snippet from this which picks up on a research paper published on Judith Curry’s site is that if the official Central England Temperature Record (CET) is plotted it shows a Cooling trend between 2000 and 2015 which amounts to some 0.5 C in that period.
    Here

    That strikes a chord with the Chinese announcement the other day that eastern China has now experienced 20 years of cooling. Where else are these cooling trends to be found ??

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    Geoff Sherrington

    These graphs might be useful. I am being pushy with them because they tell a story opposite to the official line. Use them as you wish.
    They show that threat of worsening heat waves in Capital cities here is non-existent in present data, Syd & Melb especially in the graphs that flash up here. Geoff
    http://www.geoffstuff.com/are_heatwaves_more_severe_version2.pdf
    http://www.geoffstuff.com/SummaryGraphHeatwaveWord.pdf
    http://www.geoffstuff.com/century_days_sydmelb.jpg
    http://www.geoffstuff.com/highest_sydmelb.jpg

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    Orson

    We Yanks often read here about bad news from Australia – about how the government fails the citizens.

    Today, I read about more cause for alarm from Down Under, but instead from an American financial economist: “Martin Armstrong Warns, Australia Is ‘Crossing The Line Into A Totalitarian State’ ” with respect to the financial freedom called cash – ie, to hold and spend it privately.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-11/martin-armstrong-warns-australia-crossing-line-totalitarian-state

    Are these laws and practices at all as oppressive and tyrannical as alleged at the link?

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      Geoff Sherrington

      In a word, yes.
      The frequency of important decisions being made with insignificant public input has increased rapidly. Worse, reasons given by governments for unpopular acts, regs & policies are wrong, implausible, even known untruths, pitched at a level that treats people as idiots in need of help.
      Even topics such as the cost of our domestic electricity now bypass the age old courtesy of the “willing buyer, willing seller and a benefit to both parties” that used to flow from contract law. One is told of a large increase per medium of the quarterly bill, with the implicit threat that if you want to argue, you will be cut off and it will cost you many $$$ get reconnected.
      It is not good. Unfortunately, with compulsory voting, we have not a single candidate showing the resolve to reverse the rot. Hard times, depression times, are moving from possibility to probability. There is not much that individuals can do about it. Many of us wishfor a Trump personality to emerge. I am too old for direct action. It is sad to see the decay in what for decades has been one of the best countries in the world by almost any test.
      Geoff

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        OriginalSteve

        Its time to throw outany major party that allows massive power price increases or fails to actually govern for the country’s good. As such a minor party dominated Parliament would be fine if it neuters liberal and labor and holds them accountable…..

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        OriginalSteve

        Its time to throw outany major party that allows massive power price increases or fails to actually govern for the country’s good. As such a minor party dominated Parliament would be fine if it neuters liberal and labor and holds them accountable…..

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    pat

    once again, nothing CAGW to see here folks:

    13 Aug: Canberra Times: Andrew Brown: ACT charities see surge in requests by Canberrans for energy bill help
    Canberra charities are seeing a surge of people requesting assistance with their power bill and expect the situation to worsen in coming weeks.
    The St Vincent de Paul Society said the past week had been one of their busiest for requests for financial help, as people begin to receive their bills for the autumn quarter…
    “It’s been a cold winter, and when the actual winter bills come in three months time, you’ve got a lot of people concerned about how to sustain themselves.”…

    While the charity doesn’t provide direct financial assistance , Ms Andrews said it helped people to reduce their energy use through draught-proofing measures and providing energy-efficient heaters and fridges…
    Ms Andrews said while energy provider ActewAGL had been giving out $100 discounts to customers who are “willing to have a conversation about electricity”, the number of vouchers allocated to St Vincent de Paul was about to run out…
    “With the winter bills coming up, lots of people are calling up and panicking, saying that we need help.”…

    “Our main message to the community is if you’re struggling to make ends meet, don’t go without energy,” Ms Razzaq (energy provider ActewAGL) said.
    “Please contact us as there are things we can do to help.”
    http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/act-charities-see-surge-in-requests-by-canberrans-for-energy-bill-help-20170809-gxs9hf.html

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    pat

    and if they do upgrade the properties, people will pay more for rent!

    12 Aug: UK Telegraph: Jillian Ambrose: Energy efficiency loophole risks major cost to the energy system
    Landlords are expected to file for ­exemptions from the forthcoming efficiency guidelines to avoid shouldering the expense of upgrading the country’s most poorly insulated homes, at a major cumulative cost to energy consumers who will pay for new power ­capacity through their bills.

    By upgrading 300,000 homes at the lowest end of the energy efficiency scale, tenants could save £600 off each energy bill. This is the equivalent of £180m in savings on energy bills overall, and the cost of building a new gas-fired power plant or two large offshore wind farms.

    Joanne Wade, from the Association for the Conservation of Energy, said “the bigger prize” would be a move to include all homes under a C band of ­energy efficiency.
    “The total annual energy savings would be the equivalent to turning the Drax coal plant off for eight months, or avoiding construction of 4GW of new capacity,” she told The Sunday Telegraph…

    She added that the energy savings could play a crucial role in tackling the growing discontent over rising ­energy costs – but new plans making it easier for landlords to invest in warmer homes would be required.
    Under current regulation, landlords can apply for an exemption to standards if they cannot receive funding to undertake the work at no upfront cost.

    This rule was introduced alongside the Green Deal but, after scaling back the regime, Ms Wade has warned that landlords will find it easier to file for an exemption…
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/08/12/energy-efficiency-loophole-risks-major-cost-energy-system/

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    RAH

    I was just wondering what you folks down under are thinking about the current situation with N. Korea and the PRC. There is a whole lot of Sabre Rattling going on right now. Fact is that the US military right now has more assets deployed in the Pacific with more joint exercises with Japan and S. Korea than I can remember. Then we’ve seen the destroyer USS Lassen, conducting freedom of navigation demonstration passing very close to the Spratly’s and really angering the PRC. Point being it’s not the normal fun & games right now with either the PRC or that sick little puke in N. Korea. I suspect that those of you near Australian military facilities have noticed an uptick in activity also?

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    Another Ian

    JO

    FYI

    “Somewhere along the line I heard the quote that “The air heat is just the oceans by other means” (or something close to that). Well, it’s pretty obvious if you have an instinctive grasp of specific heats, but I got to wondering about how to make it clear to folks without 3 or 4 years of chemistry classes…”

    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2017/08/11/the-ocean-by-other-means-air-temperatures/

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    Another Ian

    “This is the initial release of my new GHCN software, titled UNHIDING THE DECLINE. It is designed to allow you to process large GHCN databases on a small computer with little memory, and make graphs very quickly.”

    https://realclimatescience.com/2017/08/unhiding-the-decline/

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    Another Ian

    “Incredible correlation of time vs. CO2. As CO2 levels increase, people get older. Time to end the denial”

    https://realclimatescience.com/2017/08/finally-proof-that-co2-causes-aging/

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      pat

      Another Ian – and getting older makes people selfish, according to some!

      13 Aug: The Age: Eryk Bagshaw: Housing affordability: thousands of large homes occupied by one person in Sydney and Melbourne
      NSW and Victoria are sitting on a glut of 100,000 underused houses, with more than 2000 six-bedroom homes across Sydney and Melbourne occupied by just one person, a Fairfax Media analysis has revealed…

      The figures, obtained for Fairfax Media by the Australian Bureau of Statistics, count the number of usual residents year-round, not just those home on census night, with a large proportion aged 65 and over.
      “These people are cruising through their senior years but they are sitting on a huge amount of unused real estate,” (director of the Australian Housing and Urban Research Institute Research Centre at UNSW Hal) Pawson said…

      According to the Grattan Institute’s Brendan Coates, the disincentives have fuelled the level of inequality laid bare in the figures, as more young families are shut out, not just from buying a property, but from paying the rent with fewer houses and rooms on the market…
      “You can’t wait for the baby boomers to pass away to get those houses on the market,” said Mr Coates.
      “A lot of people in their 60s can expect to live for another 30 years. Try telling younger Australians that they have to wait for that to happen to be able to afford a house that is close to their job.”…

      In the Sydney city area alone there are more than 6000 empty rooms in three, four, five and six-bedrooms houses – capable of housing the residents of Martin Place’s homeless tent city hundreds of times over…
      http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/thousands-of-mansions-occupied-by-just-one-person-across-sydney-and-melbourne-20170730-gxlzgq.html

      not the first time Fairfax have brought up the topic:

      2008: SMH: Jano Gibson: Put granny in the pool to solve housing shortage
      PUTTING grandma six feet under could be the answer to Sydney’s housing shortage.
      An architectural firm believes backyard swimming pools should be emptied and transformed into subterranean granny flats, complete with a small bedroom, living room, kitchen, bathroom, garden alcove and rooftop windows.
      The concept, which came second in the Architecture Australia Prize for Unbuilt Work, would allow urban consolidation to take place without compromising some of the benefits of suburbia, such as spacious gardens and unimpeded views…

      Bloomberg pushing the same meme:

      8 Aug: Bloomberg: Prashant Gopal: Baby Boomers Who Refuse to Sell Are Dominating the Housing Market
      Older Americans own half of houses, squeezing out youngsters
      Why a 23-year-old is cruising city streets, knocking on doors
      Millennials are finding themselves out in the cold because building has slowed, and longer-living baby boomers are staying put, setting up a simmering conflict between the two biggest generations in U.S. history…

      People 55 and older own 53 percent of U.S. owner-occupied houses, the biggest share since the government started collecting data in 1900, according to real estate website Trulia. That’s up from 43 percent a decade ago. Those ages 18 to 34 possess just 11 percent. When they were that age, baby boomers had homes at almost twice that level…READ ALL
      https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-08/baby-boomers-who-won-t-sell-are-dominating-the-housing-market

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        Annie

        I don’t think it is ‘selfish’ of older people to want to continue to live in the homes they’ve loved and in which they have brought up their families. It should be free choice, not coercion, that they sell if and when they are ready to do so. They have bought their houses and are not beholden to the state for them. Some of these people Pat is quoting are extremely impertinant.
        It hasn’t helped that developers were only too keen, we saw it in Melbourne, to knock down perfectly good houses in order to build ghastly cramped units. I can’t think of anywhere I’d less like to live in than one of the ghastly flats we saw in Prahran and Kew, for example.

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    David Maddison

    Extreme Greens mourn dead trees. These same morons get to decide energy policy.

    https://www.facebook.com/subjectpolitics/videos/709955239200019/

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    • #

      Not a lot of these mourning warmies seem to know
      that powering the world with so called renewables
      is the surest way to destroy forests and other landscape
      habitats for wildlife, like estuaries and open country.
      To get an idea of just how landscape eating renewables
      are, Matt Ridley says in ‘The Rational Optimist’ Ch 10,
      that in order to to supply current inhabitants of the US
      with their current power demands would require solar panels
      covering an area the size of Spain or wind farms the size
      of Kazakhstan. That’s – a – lotta’ – land.- – - – - – - -

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    pat

    CAGW policies partly to blame? not a mention:

    9 Aug: LABOR RENEWS CALLS TO RE-REGULATE ELECTRICITY PRICING
    Posted by NSW Labor
    At the 2015 election the Liberals and Nationals promised the people of NSW that power prices would not rise following privatisation.

    Instead, they fought the Australian Energy Regulator in court so prices would go up.
    NSW families are now facing steep power price rises of up to 20 per cent.
    Households are expecting an average increase of $300 a year and small businesses in NSW will be hit with an average increase of $900 to their power bills…

    NSW Labor Leader Luke Foley last month made the commitment to re-regulate electricity in a Foley Labor Government.

    Quotes attributable to NSW Opposition Leader Luke Foley
    “Families and small businesses are facing record power bills – because the Liberal-National Government did everything it could to drive the price up ahead of privatisation.
    “Electricity companies need to be re-regulated to ensure that consumers are treated fairly.”

    Quotes attributable to Shadow Minister for Industry, Resources and Energy Adam Searle
    “When markets fail to deliver fair outcomes, people expect government to step in.
    “A Foley Labor Government will ensure NSW families and businesses are properly protected.”
    http://www.lukefoley.com.au/labor_renews_calls_to_re_regulate_electricity_pricing

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      Dennis

      Can Foley explain why the last NSW Labor government sold half the government owned electricity private company businesses that replace the Electricity Commission government department?

      And sold for $5.9 billion assets valued at lowest estimate $12 billion for a loss to taxpayers of $6.1 billion.

      And why Labor arranged for those companies to borrow money for 16-years and hand that debt to the state government disguised as dividends. The money then used to make state budget bottom lines look better than they really were.

      After retiring the debts and outstanding interest all that was left of $5.9 billion was $800 million.

      I understand that the same applies in Queensland from the Beattie-Bligh Labor governments, and continues with the present Labor mob.

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    pat

    incredible:

    13 Aug: Fairfax Advocate: Senate investigates climate change’s impact on national security
    by Michelle Wisbey
    Climate change could become a “driver of poverty and inequality” and a threat to Australia’s security if it is not addressed, a senate committee was told…

    Tasmanian Senator Jacqui Lambie sits on the committee and said defence had been proactive in the area, but needed to be better.
    “Defence needs to work more productively with local government and businesses in terms of defence procurement to ensure everyone is meeting environmental standards,” she said.
    “I would like to see voluntary national service implemented to ensure when natural disasters strike, we have the numbers to support SES and the communities affected.”…

    The Climate Council said in its submission to the inquiry that climate change posed a growing threat to human well-being, and would go on to put the Australian Defence Force under significant pressure.
    “These events affect individuals and societies through the displacement of people, damage to critical infrastructure, and damage to health and livelihoods,” it said.

    “The ADF will increasingly be called upon to deliver humanitarian assistance in response to extreme weather and its impacts both at home and overseas.”
    Former Defence Force chief Chris Barrie said urgent action was needed to mitigate the “potentially disastrous consequences” of not taking action…

    World Vision Australia recommended that a Climate Change Strategy for the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade be developed and implemented…
    http://www.theadvocate.com.au/story/4849605/climate-change-security-impacts/

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    • #
      philthegeek

      I like the way Turnbul goes the whole bipartisan thing now that Baryard has declared a problem. :) doGs but that man is weak.

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      Robert Rosicka

      Still wondering how someone born in Tamworth can be an NZ citizen ? The others with this problem were born overseas .

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        Dennis

        Barnaby Joyce was born in Tamworth New South Wales (New England Electorate) and graduated with a degree in finance from the University of New England, Armidale.

        His mother is Australian born but his father was born in New Zealand and migrated to Australia and became a farmer in the Tamworth district.

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          Another Ian

          Dennis

          A caller on Ray Hadley this morning had it chapter and verse.

          For the age group that Barnaby is in he can only have NZ citizenship IF HE GOES THROUGH THE REQUIRED APPLICATION.

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      • #

        I agree, it is silly and there is no way the constitution writers had this in mind and the high court, sitting as the court of disputed returns, might have an interesting judgement to make. At the time (1901 or thereabouts) nationhood was bestowed in different ways and Australian citizenship was a different beast under the tenets of the British Empire. I’m hoping that they look at the wording with this context in mind. It might not help all those ensnared in this but others might be assisted by a judgement that rules on definitions.

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          philthegeek

          I agree, it is silly

          It is…a bit….but there is a fundamental issue here. If Barnyard is ineligible then any piece of legislation passed by 1 vote MAY be challengeable in the HC…or at least any passed from now.

          And the Kiwis HAVE confirmed he is a dual national. HC will have to decide if its reasonable that Barnyard should have known. There are arguments, but not strong ones. You need to CHECK your status on applying to be a candidate and if you rely on an ssumption rather than a check? Sillieness.

          I reckon Barnyard and Roberts are gonners on the citizenship thing. At least Barnyard hasn’t been changing his story and coming off as duplicitous / shifty like Roberts.

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      • #
        Rod Stuart

        This explains it for you.

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        Rod Stuart

        Someone suggested that we write to Kim Jong-Un and request that he immediately enact legislation making every member of the House of Reprehensibles and the entire Senate a citizen of the PRK.

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        • #

          In essence it would but I think it would be negated because it would not be recognised under international law due to its vexatious nature

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            Rereke Whakaaro

            Not recognised by whom, under international law?

            International law has no standing without local statute upholding the matter.

            Countries are still sovereign, despite what the hard left of politics would wish, and have us believe.

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              The point being that the constitutional courts in the country in question (ie Australia) can use the international position to validate the citizenship

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    pat

    14 Aug: The Conversation: Fixing democracy to combat climate change: Al Gore Q&A
    by Mark Maslin, Professor of Palaeoclimatology, UCL
    (Disclosure Statement: Mark Maslin is a Professor at University College London, Founding Director of Rezatec Ltd, Director of The London NERC Doctoral Training Partnership and a member of Cheltenham Science Festival Advisory Committee. He is an unpaid member of the Sopra-Steria CSR Board. He has received funding in the past from the NERC, EPSRC, ESRC, Royal Society, DIFD, DECC, BIS, FCO, Innovate UK, Carbon Trust, UK Space Agency, European Space Agency, Leverhulme Trust, WWF, JLT Re, Channel 4, RICS, British Council, and CAFOD. Prof. Maslin’s third edition of his book ‘Climate Change: A Very Short Introduction’ is published by Oxford University Press and is out now)

    It is more than ten years since Al Gore’s documentary An Inconvenient Truth brought climate change to the masses. At its heart, it showed the former US vice-president giving a comprehensive global warming slide show – warning of the dire consequences if we do nothing about the climate crisis…

    The sequel is different to the first film – it is much more biographical and focuses on how Gore became the great climate change communicator and what he has been doing with his charities to build awareness and train future climate change leaders around the world…

    Had this film been released a year ago, its optimistic tone would not have seemed out of place. It is almost as if the filmmakers had assumed there would be a different election result…

    I had the privilege of interviewing Al Gore and we mainly focused on politics and how to deal with bipartisanship both in the US and the UK, as we both believe that it will be in the political realm where the fight to solve climate change will be won or lost…

    MASLIN: I was struck in the middle of your film by a profound statement: “To fix the climate crisis we need to fix democracy”. And then the film moved on to another topic. How do you think we can fix our democracies now in the 21st century?

    GORE: Well, big money has hacked our democracy even before Putin did…
    http://theconversation.com/fixing-democracy-to-combat-climate-change-al-gore-qanda-82426

    convenient lies?

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    Words to ‘get up’ this August: blather, noise, signal…

    Any others I’m missing?

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    pat

    this is in a number of regional Fairfax newspapers. does Surf Life Saving Australia approve this message?

    13 Aug: Fairfax Bendigo Advertiser: OUR FUTURE | Rescuers may need saving from climate changes
    by Sophie Welsh
    (FROM BOTTOM OF ARTICLE: Sophie Welsh is cadet co-ordinator of Point Leo Surf Lifesaving Club, Victoria)
    Rising sea levels and warming oceans are putting Australian surf life-saving clubs under increasing pressure, creating dangerous surf conditions and hindering the ability of life-savers to provide supervision and safety to beachgoers…

    Throughout my decade serving between the flags, I’ve seen our clubhouse used in a variety of ways…
    Yet changing wave and tidal patterns are already eroding the sand dunes in front of our club house. This is due to rising sea levels, driven by worsening climate change.
    This creates an aquatic environment that is increasingly difficult to contend with, creating deeper troughs, shallower sandbars and faster-forming rips.
    Climate change is also driving hotter summers, with the Bureau of Meteorology showing January’s average temperature to be 0.78 degrees above average

    Hotter temperatures are increasing the incidence rates of sunburn and heatstroke, and more people in the water will likely result in more aquatic rescues.
    http://www.bendigoadvertiser.com.au/story/4847484/rescuers-may-need-saving-from-climate-changes/

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      Rereke Whakaaro

      OMG! January average temperatures to be seventy eight one hundredths of a degree, above average, on average. Everybody panic!

      I cannot get the thought out of my mind, that Climate Change(tm) is an affliction suffered by people who can’t do maths.

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    pat

    helloooooo. who on earth do these people and their MSM enablers think they are? time to call a halt to this rubbish:

    14 Aug: Guardian: Michael Slezak: Commonwealth Bank’s first climate policy attacked by environmental groups
    Market Forces says it will lodge shareholder resolution to force bank to implement stated commitment to Paris agreement
    The bank released the statement, saying (LINK) it was “reaffirming our support for a responsible global transition to a net zero emissions economy by 2050”.
    It comes as the bank faces court action from two shareholders, suing it over allegedly inadequate climate-risk disclosure, and just days after it announced it would not be lending to Adani’s Carmichael coalmine. Adani said the statement simply reflected its own decision not to approach any Australian bank.

    The short climate statement released by the bank follows a sustained campaign from environmental groups, who have attacked the bank over its previous failure to rule out financing the Adani coalmine, and its status as the country’s biggest lender to Australia’s fossil fuel industry in 2016…

    The Commonwealth Bank also committed to adopting the recommendations of the Taskforce on Climate-related Financial Disclosures, which means it will begin reporting all its direct and indirect greenhouse gas emissions, and include it in its financial filings, meaning they will be fully audited…

    “Commonwealth Bank is not even pretending to make an effort on climate change with the position statement released today,” said Julien Vincent, the executive director of the environmental campaign group Market Forces.
    He said they would lodge a shareholder resolution against the Commonwealth Bank on Wednesday, which would embed in the bank’s constitution its stated commitment to keeping global warming at less than 2C and force it to implement that commitment in the bank’s management…

    “We can’t allow a situation to continue where Australia’s biggest company continues to finance a massive fossil fuel industry expansion while feigning interest in a safe climate future,” Vincent said…
    The bank’s statement said it would finance $15bn of “low carbon” projects by 2025. Despite being Australia’s biggest bank, that puts it significantly behind some of its competitors, and behind all of them on a pro-rata basis, Vincent said…

    Blair Palese, the chief executive of 350.org Australia, said the bank’s statement was a step back from what they were led to believe would be released in earlier discussions…
    Greenpeace said the statement “will do nothing to restore the bank’s tattered reputation”…
    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/aug/14/commonwealth-banks-first-climate-policy-attacked-by-environmental-groups

    Julien was with one or other Greenpeace group from 2006-2012:

    LinkedIn: Julien Vincent, Market Forces
    Previous: Greenpeace Australia Pacific, Greenpeace, Oxfam Australia
    Education, Monash University
    Project Officer, Environment Victoria
    February 2005 – June 2006

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    pat

    13 Aug: Appleton Post Crescent WI: Robert E. Meyer: Column: Climate change activists need a new strategy
    Regardless of your position on the issue of human induced global warming, one thing remains undeniable: Those who are apologists for the “save the planet” approach have done an abysmal job of graciously persuading the public to participate in the cause.

    If I were on that side of this issue, I would emphasize the economic benefits of reducing emissions and encourage the virtues of environmental stewardship.
    Instead, they have chosen to bully or insult people who don’t subscribe to a fully-orbited “humans are responsible for destroying the planet or bust” narrative. Is that really necessary?

    What such antics have accomplished is further fortifying resistance against the cause. It’s yet another example of otherwise intelligent people acting in ways detrimental to their own objectives. Embracing ideology has become more important than voluntarily engaging in responsible practices.

    To pretend that skeptics don’t have rational reasons for their cynical posture is intellectually dishonest. Even if they ultimately are wrong, they believe global warming is about more than a changing climate. Space here will allow us to consider only a few reasons.

    The most blatant observation summarily ignored is that viewpoints on this issue are so closely aligned with political ideology. That alone can’t help leaving the impression that this issue, as so many others, has become politicized…
    Concepts such as consensus and peer review seem impressive and decisive, until we consider the possibility of groupthink relationships existing between the presenter and the reviewers, resulting in an unchallengeable orthodoxy.

    Baby Boomers who were high school students from the late 60’s to mid 70’s, probably remember reading a 1968 blockbuster by Paul Ehrlich, The Population Bomb, as part of required social studies curriculum. Ehrlich made numerous dire (but unrealized) predictions that seemed plausible, if not inevitable, to highly impressionable minds…
    http://www.postcrescent.com/story/opinion/columnists/2017/08/13/column-climate-change-activists-need-new-strategy/545358001/

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    pat

    13 Aug: Guardian: Radical millennials are a climate force to be reckoned with
    by Geoff Dembicki
    (Geoff Dembicki is the author of Are We Screwed? How a New Generation is Fighting to Survive Climate Change)
    The window for hope is closing rapidly for the planet. But young activists are demonstrating their power at the ballot box to push for a different future
    If progressives can’t take back control of the White House and Congress from climate change deniers in the next three years, it’s conceivable that humankind could be screwed. But evidence is mounting that a new political force is up to the task. It has millions of potential supporters across the US, the UK and Canada. It’s openly critical of capitalism…

    Democratic elites must be convinced that bold climate action is possible. And the party needs “to gain enough power to pass their shit,” said Vox columnist David Roberts, an expert on climate politics…
    The first evidence came in 2015, when an 18% surge of millennial voters helped oust Canada’s Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper, a close ally of oil and gas.
    Harvard International Review said it’s “exciting … in a global context.”…

    Next came the 2016 Democratic primaries. Voters under the age of 30 cast two million votes for “socialist” Bernie Sanders while Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump combined got 1.6 million. Sanders leveraged this support to get far-left policies in the Democratic platform…
    If momentum persists, it’s plausible that millennials who expelled an oil and gas leader in Canada, turned a socialist into a serious challenger for US President and invigorated the UK’s far-left could block Trump’s climate agenda as early as 2018…
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/13/radical-millennials-will-take-back

    13 Aug: The Trentonian NJ: David Neese: Climate change holy rollers
    (Dave Neese grew up on a Midwest farm, received a degree in Slavic Studies (Russian lit), Indiana U., did stints in the U.S. Army and in various news and other jobs from New Hampshire to California. At The Trentonian he covered the Statehouse and was editorial page editor. He won N.J. Press Association awards in numerous categories)
    The Gores and DiCaprios seem to be environmental versions of the Calvinist elect, cleared in advance for divine approval. Besides which, they buy “carbon offsets.” Whatever those are. Maybe something like the favors and benefices of the Church’s simony heydays.
    You know you’re nowhere near the realm of science when you hear Inquisition-like curses cast upon climate deniers, upon agnostics who hesitate to kneel before the altar of climate change…
    The name-calling serves as sleight-of-hand trickery and misdirection. It distracts attention away from the basic questions. Such as:

    Exactly how much warming can be attributed to human emissions? And exactly how much to known natural causes such as solar activity, ocean currents, etc.?
    And how much warming is there, anyway, really?
    Gernot Patzel, an Austrian scientist of considerable standing, answers that last question in these words: “Over the past 10,000 years it has been warmer than it is today 65 percent of the time.”

    There are other scientists who quibble with the statement. But that just goes to show that the issue of climate change is far from being the “settled science” proclaimed ex cathedra from the presidential podium of Barack Obama, the pages of the New York Times and other thrones of progressivism.

    Despite fire ‘n’ brimstone hectoring from liberal pulpits, even the most basic tenets of the climate-change issue continue to be topics of contention. Even the simple question: What’s the temperature, globally speaking?
    A recent paper by three scientists — James P. Wallace 3d, Joseph S. D’Aleo and Craig D. Idso — cast doubt on the official temperature assessments of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and other agencies.
    The paper concluded that “historical data adjustments” removing “cyclical temperature patterns” have produced readings “totally inconsistent with published and credible U.S. and other temperature data.” (Seven other scientists associated with leading research universities endorsed the paper’s conclusion.)

    Yes, other scientists vocally contest the paper’s thesis. But this, again, only supports the point that climate change is not the “settled science” that liberal choirs keep singing hosannas to…

    Another dead giveaway that you’re in the realm of politics here, not science, is the use of lawyer-like verbal contortions, small-print qualifiers to hedge the sweeping claims of alarm.
    The headlines herald disaster. But in the footnotes of its scary reports, the U.N.’s IPCC — Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change — adds weasel-words walking back its frightening claims.
    The panel hedges its cataclysmic scenarios by couching them in terms of “confidence” levels, not actual knowledge. This is the IPCC’ s sneaky way of saying — and hoping you’ll not notice — “We actually don’t know for sure.”…
    http://www.trentonian.com/article/TT/20170813/NEWS/170819930

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    pat

    comment in moderation re “13 Aug: Guardian: Radical millennials are a climate force to be reckoned with”

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    pat

    14 Aug: UK Register: Antarctica declared world’s most volcanic region as 91 new cones found beneath ice
    Awaken not the Elder Things, lest they and their shoggoths again battle foul Cthulhu
    By Simon Sharwood, APAC (Asia-Pacific) Editor
    Boffins from the University of Edinburgh’s School of GeoSciences have found 91 previously unknown volcanoes beneath the West Antarctic Ice Shelf, a total that suggests it might be the most volcanic region on Earth.

    In a paper (LINK)[PDF] titled “A new volcanic province: an inventory of subglacial volcanoes in West Antarctica”, authors Maximillian Van Wyk De Vries, Robert G Bingham and Andrew Hein explain that with radar surveys and other techniques they were able to detect 91 cones that suggest the presence of volcanos. The cones are sometimes massive – they range in size from 100m in height to 3850m, with an average relief of 621m. 29 of the features are over 1km tall. All are beneath ice, in some cases kilometres of it.

    We already knew about over 40 volcanos in the region. The discovery of 91 more therefore heats things up a little, although we don’t know if any are active.

    The discovery appears to be significant for three reasons…

    Second, whatever is causing climate change on Earth, news that there’s a larger-than-previously-thought heat source under a major ice sheet is worth knowing. Or as the authors put it, “The presence of such a volcanic belt traversing the deepest marine basins beneath the centre of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet could prove to be a major influence on the past behaviour and future stability of the ice sheet.”…
    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/14/91_volcanos_found_under_antarctic_ice/

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    pat

    caring for the poor in Sydney’s western suburbs!

    14 Aug: TheConversation: The Madhouse Effect: this is how climate denial in Australia and the US compares
    by David Schlosberg, Professor of Environmental Politics and Co-Director Sydney Environment Institute, University of Sydney
    Disclosure statement: David Schlosberg has previously received funding from the Australian Research Council to study adaptation planning.
    This article is part of an ongoing series (LINK) from the Post-Truth Initiative (LINK), a Strategic Research Excellence Initiative at the University of Sydney. The series examines today’s post-truth problem in public discourse: the thriving economy of lies, bullshit and propaganda that threatens rational discourse and policy.
    The project brings together scholars of media and communications, government and international relations, physics, philosophy, linguistics, and medicine, and is affiliated with the Sydney Social Sciences and Humanities Advanced Research Centre (SSSHARC) (LINK), the Sydney Environment Institute (LINK) and the Sydney Democracy Network (LINK).

    (OPENING PARA) Michael Mann is well known for his classic “hockey stick” work on global warming, for the attacks he has long endured from climate denialists, and for the good fight of communicating the environmental and political realities of climate change.

    Mann’s work, including his recent book The Madhouse Effect, has helped me, as a dual US-Australian citizen, think about the similarities and differences between the US and Australia as we respond to what has been called the climate change denial machine…
    There is a key difference between the two countries’ political cultures. As much as the denialists have determined Australian energy and climate policy, they have not been as successful, yet, at undermining deep-seeded respect in Australian culture for the common good, for science, for expertise and knowledge…

    We know who dies in heatwaves, for example – the poor, the elderly, those who live alone, those without resources.
    This is happening right here. The Rockefeller-funded Resilient Sydney project found that the number one chronic stress is increasing health services demand, which is crucial to resilience in Western Sydney during heatwaves. If we don’t attend to that, vulnerable people will continue to die every time it heats up…

    Michael Mann is taking part in a panel discussion, The Madhouse Effect: What is Stopping Action on Climate Change?, from 6.30-8pm on Wednesday, August 16, as part of the Sydney Science Festival. This article is an edited and revised version of comments given in response to Mann’s February 8 talk on The Madhouse Effect, organised by the University of Sydney’s Sydney Environment Institute (FULL VIDEO OF MANN).

    You can read other pieces in the post-truth series here (LINK).
    http://theconversation.com/the-madhouse-effect-this-is-how-climate-denial-in-australia-and-the-us-compares-81822

    David Schlosberg is Professor of Environmental Politics in the Department of Government and International Relations at the University of Sydney, and Co-Director of the Sydney Environment Institute. Professor Schlosberg is known nationally and internationally for his work in environmental politics, environmental movements, and political theory, in particular the intersection of the three with his work on environmental justice (most recently Defining Environmental Justice, Oxford 2007). He is a co-editor, with John Dryzek of ANU and Richard Norgaard of UC Berkeley, of The Oxford Handbook of Climate Change and Society (Oxford 2011); the three are in the process of co-authoring a book on The Climate-Challenged Society (forthcoming from Oxford in 2013). Professor Schlosberg has held visiting appointments at the London School of Economics, Australian National University, and Princeton University.

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    How The Guardian does its thing:

    First the headline: Scientists discover 91 volcanoes below Antarctic ice sheet.

    Then you get the stock photo of Antarctica under clear skies with as little snow as possible. (Looks like they got those clouds where they get the brown steam for their photos of power plants.) But the real gotcha is the finer print above the pic: This is in addition to 47 already known about and eruption would melt more ice in region affected by climate change

    So, yeah, it’s got this big cordillera. Yeah it’s volcanic and active down there. In fact the scientists are amazed etc that there are all these volcanoes. They didn’t know till they looked! (Not sure if they’ve made a definite connection between looking and knowing yet.)

    Now for the clincher (but this requires overlooking the very high levels of Antarctic ice in the last decade, so blot that from your minds, children, and just listen to Auntie Guardian)…

    Nothing is certain at this stage, but could it be that by melting the glaciers we’ve released the downward pressure on volcanoes in icy regions? So now they can blow?

    Bad humans! Mean 4WD driving white male identitarian non-Guardian readers!

    Now you’ve really done it!

    Do I have to link to this manipulative slop?
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/12/scientists-discover-91-volcanos-antarctica

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    This may or may not work. It’s a cartoon I found amusing.
    Link to Cartoon
    Tony.

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    RickWill

    Jay Weatherill and the South Australian Government have just announced they will back building one of the world’s biggest solar thermal plants with storage in Port Augusta!

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-14/solar-thermal-power-plant-announcement-for-port-augusta/8804628

    The stated numbers:
    150MW
    495GWh (gives CF of 37% ha ha)
    AUD650 (ha ha ha)
    SA government guaranteed to pay AUD78/MWh. (So actual price about AUD168/MWh)

    What is not said is that it will not replace even 1MW of fossil capacity because there will certainly be days when it produces nothing – majority of people do not get this.

    The 495GWh is equivalent 0.27% of the NEM annual energy. Extrapolating across the grid is an investment of AUD236bn for something that will not produce anything on some days.

    So SA has all this installed wind and solar capacity, a big battery and will be keeping the State going on diesel next summer then buying more gas plant to run in subsequent summers plus a lifeline to Victoria. Can anyone begin to see the problem – WHO PAYS FOR ALL THIS INVESTMENT IN GENERATING AND STORAGE CAPACITY THAT SITS IDLE FOR MUCH OF ITS LIFE. It gets sillier and sillier.

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      Robber

      From Dr Finkel’s report on the Electricity Market.
      Solar Thermal with 12 hours backup $172/MWhr
      Combined Cycle Gas Turbine $82/MWhr
      Supercritical coal $76/MWhr
      Who is advising Weatherill in SA? Firstly Musk’s Big Battery, then 80,000 litres/hour Diesel on the back of a truck, now this??

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        RickWill

        Making comparisons between solar thermal and dispatchable fossil fuel does not make sense – it supports the delusion. With solar thermal you must factor in the fossil fuel component. So the only valid comparison is whatever it takes to get dispatchable output from the solar thermal plus what ever else is tied up with it to get a dispatchable output.

        To start with there is the $172/MWh for the solar/thermal then maybe $300/MWh for the gas turbine part of the generation. Inevitably the total will be above $500/MWh. The per unit cost of the gas plant skyrockets because all the capital is amortised over reduced output. The operating and maintenance costs for the gas plant are no less because the gas plant has to be able to run at short notice – during and after any cloudy day for example. The gas price will continue to rise because it is gradually monopolising the dispatchable power market as coal is forced out.

        Sunlight is not high intensity. Apart from less cloud in Port Augusta the intensity of sunlight in Port Augusta is little different to a rooftop in Adelaide. Hence no benefit of scale – need massive area to collect for 150MWe; maybe 50Ha. A solar hot water heater on a roof in Adelaide is going to be far more effective than a solar thermal electricity generator at Port Augusta supplying a hot water heater in Adelaide.

        In years past the only use for the Finkel report would be toilet paper. Thankfully there is no longer a need to waste paper and ink printing this garbage to read it.

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      Robert Rosicka

      Spot on , the ex liberal power broker Kroger I think his name is has a company link to this scheme ,first they slice and dice now they fry them , poor birds .

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    Robert Rosicka

    No the ABC aren’t biased of course every single Australian just can’t wait to hear what Johnny Depp thinks of Barnaby’s dual citizen saga .
    Just the same type of Pulitzer Prize journalism we will see tomorrow on the other govt funded but green broadcaster SBS when they dedicate time to show us how bad the drought is in California.

    Time for some funding cuts .

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