JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


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Weekend Unthreaded

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Weekend Unthreaded, 9.2 out of 10 based on 44 ratings

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197 comments to Weekend Unthreaded

  • #
    Alfred Alexander

    Yet again I am the first to rate
    Weekend Unthreaded

    Thank you for Weekend Unthreaded.
    Itis always good reading!

    Alfred

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    • #
      Watt

      We’ll miss it when it’s not there.

      00

      • #
        Watt

        Theresa May is on a crusade. She’s been biding her time on this then brought it up after the. Manchester Arena at the G7 and now again after London Bridge. “The internet must now be regulated following London Bridge terror attack

        When Governments globally fall for a nonsense consensus what can brings them back to Earth ?

        60

        • #
          Oliver K. Manuel

          How would regulation of the Internet protect from the terrorist bridge attack?

          It seems that politicians simply look for any excuse to push their own agenda against freedom for individuals.

          30

          • #
            David Maddison

            The proponents of terror have been doing it for the last 1400 years, with or without the Internet.

            30

          • #
            Graham Richards

            It’s also aptly called ” clutching at straws”. When you are at a loss for ideas, except of course the most obvious one, you will naturally look for diversions & switching to naming the internet as a cause of terrorism is quite ridiculous.
            Tha actual problem is the presence of the terrorists welcomed into the country by extremely naive politicians of both shades.
            Ms May can’t comprehend the task that has to be carried out. Not pleasant but she has to shut the borders, dump the Schengen deal and deport every single individual that appears on their lists of suspected extremist and their immediate & probably extended families. She helped create the disaster now she must clean up after herself.
            You may wish to label it ” good housekeeping “.

            20

  • #

    In London another terrorist attack. Say, ABC, maybe we
    find it difficult protect ourselves from flying fridges, but we do
    need to decide who comes to our country. Proper screening and an
    oath of allegiance to the Constitution of a Democratic Nation would
    seem to be a small price to pay on entry, wouldn’t you say, ABC?
    And surely safety of citizens( from the enemy without or within)is
    the first responsibility of responsible government, wouldn’t you agree,
    our’ ABC?

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    • #
      TdeF

      Agreed. Also, this is the overseas ABC. No one thinks for themselves. Apologists for terror, victimization, separation of Australians on race ground, multiculturalism morphed into an anti British, anti Christian agenda and a fake story of aboriginal civilization and victimization. All made up. It’s not our ABC. It’s theirs and they are all moving to Sydney. No one needs the ABC. All the news comes from overseas on satellite, internet, facebook, twitter, foxtel and the weather comes from the BOM.

      Goodbye too to the featherbedded CSIRO who now claim they invented WiFi. Between them, $2.5Billion a year, for what? Add to the RET $6Bn a year and you get $10Bn a year and even then it will take 60 years to pay off the debt created by rampant socialism and hatred for Australia and Australians. We are not deplorables. We are not deluded. Shut the lot. It’s our money, our country, our choice, not theirs.

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      • #
        TdeF

        My comment is in moderation. Great. It is immoderate. That is not the same as being wrong or unjustified or abusive. Enough is enough. We want our country back.

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        • #
          RAH

          Don’t feel bad. Mine is too!

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          • #
            toorightmate

            TdeF and RAH – two ripe villains if ever I saw one.
            Did you mention something about mozzies?
            Those delightful things that kill thousands each year – by malaria?

            61

      • #
        Ted O'Brien.

        Don’t shut the CSIRO, only its climate department.

        In our industry the CSIRO before the ALP Hawke government hijacked the management in 1986 held the position of fairy godmother. Any time we had a scientific problem that was beyond our resources to fix the CSIRO did it for us. I am sure that this would have applied for many other industries too.

        And it seems you never noticed the achievements of the CSIRO in conjunction with our academies and other, many foreign, institutions in pure science. Even in recent times the CSIRO did indeed greatly advance the science of WiFi, which someone seems to be mocking here.

        If there is a problem with the CSIRO fix the problem! The CSIRO concept is absolutely marvellous!

        52

    • #
      Annie

      Yes, the first duty of government is the security of the nation. The British government has been appallingly bad at keeping out those who wish us ill. The Australian government should learn from this.

      221

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        I sent a text to friends in London, they were OK. Londoners are a resilient bunch, having to put up with the IRA bombings etc.

        I did wonder though whether a similar attack would have succeeded in the USA, I doubt the attackers would have made it past their first act before being stopped by armed citizens……makes you think. As times change, maybe its time to arm citizens and give them training. I would think any butter contemplating badness might reassess things if they knew they would only last 30 seconds from the off.

        Love the Brits…our ancestral seat is in Exeter.

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        • #
          OriginalSteve

          Rotten auto correct….

          Applies to any dairy product of course…

          “Butter” should read “nutter”….

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          RAH

          Londoners are a resilient bunch but they also will start wanting to “Give it em back” as they did during the Blitz of WW II. Turning the other cheek is not going to get it.

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          • #
            Rereke Whakaaro

            And sooner or later some idiot will call it a crusade, and the whole thousand year cycle will start again.

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            • #
              OriginalSteve

              I am concerned there will be mass lynchings and open brawls….people will only put up with so much, and once it starts, it will really kick off….and once you get the Brits backs up, look out….

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          Ava

          Once the guns have gone out of the hands of decent people and gone underground there’s no going back. Govt. wants you to run, hide & tell teacher, not stand up for yourself. In US attack would be the last defense. In PC nanny Britain retaliating would be an offense.

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        • #
          GD

          Londoners are a resilient bunch, having to put up with the IRA bombings

          Given that most of the people caught in this attack weren’t born in the 80s and early 90s, I’d hope that resilience is genetic.

          40

          • #
            Rereke Whakaaro

            Last time I was in London, I noticed that the surveillance cameras put up in the 80s and 90′s are still there and functioning. Same mission. Different target.

            20

        • #
          Uncle Gus

          Actually, the death toll might have been much higher, except the Londoners kept pelting the attackers with bottles, chairs, and pint mugs…

          50

        • #
          Watt

          The threat was neutralised in 8 minutes. Does it sound impressive, till you realise what they were up against. Three blokes with cutlery.

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          • #
            RobK

            Police were on the scene 8 minutes after the first call. Firing the 50 shots took a bit longer. Still a good police effort.

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            • #
              Watt

              It may have taken 10 minutes for the first call to be registered by Police. Within 8 minutes after that all 3 suspects were dead. It could have been so much worse if they’d had access to arms or explosive.

              01

              • #
                Ava

                Or to a fully equipped kitchen. Not so much as a pepper spray is allowed to be carried in London, except by law enforcement who now have so many bits dangling from them it’s a wonder they get caught in doors.

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          • #
            Rereke Whakaaro

            I’m pleased to see that it is still called “cutlery” – quite takes me back, that does. Flicks was it?

            30

          • #
            Old Troop

            Don’s disparage the police int his, they performed magnificently. A man with a knife can do a hell of a lot of damage, I know, I was trained to do it.

            00

      • #
        toorightmate

        You must be wrong.
        The mayor of London told us today that London is the world’s safest city.

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        • #
          Raven

          London probably is the world’s safest city . . as far as the mayor is concerned.
          Then again, it’s the other London residents who are the target.

          30

      • #

        There is a very large and rapidly growing elephant sitting in the room of virtually every western nation.

        It is a very strange that everyone can see it except the ruling liberal elite.

        Tonyb

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    • #
      Dean

      Our ABC is busy trying to convince us CO2 is a pollutant, and that plants process this toxic chemical with their roots……

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    • #
      Roger

      One of the comments to a London paper about last night’s attack pointed towards Mark Steyn’s excellent description of Manchester – “The New Mancunians” at his blog ‘steynonline’. Well worth reading to understand some of what has gone on in the UK because of uncontrolled immigration and political correctness and what we are likely to face in the future.

      I though hard about one of his comments, he was actually repeating a ‘joke’ – I initially thought it to be “over the top” – but then I related it to something which by chance I had first-hand knowledge of a few years ago. I can’t recount the details here save to say it involved apparently moderate moslems, very real death threats to someone who had renounced islam and the subsequent recovery of a stockpile of guns close to London by British security forces.

      The ‘joke’, will be seen by anyone reading Steyn’s article and I would stress my view that it is far from being entirely true – there is no ‘truth’ which defines or holds true for all or even the majority of those in any religion or nation – but there is, from my own experience, enough truth in it that it should not be dismissed out of hand.

      Rather than leave people guessing I will, with moderators permission, repeat it as written in Steyn’s article: “One recalls the mordant jest [SNIP See link https://www.steynonline.com/7874/the-new-mancunians."

      I have friends who are Sikhs, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, moslems as well as other religions including my own christianity but out of all of these there is only one [SNIP, frustratingly SNIP - Jo].

      Roger, Section 18C forbids anything that might offend an ethnic group. Seriously. There is no free speech! – Jo

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      • #
        Roger

        Jo
        many thanks for that – I wasn’t sure and there is a constant ‘treading on eggshells’ nowadays where free speech is so constrained. Truth, facts and thus democratic decision-making suffer as a consequence. Those who would do us harm or seek to overthrow democracy seem to thrive on it and must be laughing at us and our lawmakers.
        kind regards
        Roger

        80

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          “To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.”.

          - Voltaire

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      • #
        Watt

        Is it safer to Link to a source than to say ? The Link in the above seems to be dead anyway. Is this the one you meant ? https://www.steynonline.com/7874/the-new-mancunians (maybe it’s the auto-inserted full stop that killed it).

        40

    • #
      dadgervais

      Consider an imaginary, violent cult which teaches, as a basic precept, that anything (that includes lying) is permitted if it furthers their objectives. Would an oath of allegiance keep them out?

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      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        It would not.

        In the mind of your imaginary, violent cult member, actively taking an oath of allegiance, which the adversary considers to be “the ultimate test”, would be a sweet irony.

        In fact, it might even be seen as a right of passage, and the final step in doing what they intend to do, because they are now totally part of what they seek to destroy.

        That is the essence of martyrdom.

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  • #
    el gordo

    Is this fake news?

    Washington (CNN) ‘President Donald Trump does believe in climate change and that humans have a role in it, US Ambassador to the UN Nikki Haley told CNN’s Jake Tapper in an interview on “State of the Union.”

    “President Trump believes the climate is changing and he believes pollutants are part of the equation,” Haley said Saturday, answering a central question in the wake of his decision to withdraw the country from the Paris climate accord.’

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    • #
      TdeF

      Does Trump believe carbon dioxide, a gas as essential as oxygen oxygen, the gas from which all life on earth is made is a pollutant?
      That is the most absurd fake science of the last hundred years. It shows how much science has been corrupted by socialism masquerating as environmentalism that people talk of CO2 as pollution.

      So every human being, every plant, even animal, every insect is a mass polluter and made from the two products of combustion CO2 and H2O. Both vile pollutants according to this Fake science. As for the CO2 increase being man made, it is not. That was never fact or proven, just supposition. That also is fake science. I cannot find a single aspect of the AGW explanation which is supported by facts. Every part of it is wrong.

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    • #
      TdeF

      As for the Climate Changing. Where? Who said? Arnold Schwarznegger? Al Gore? Tim Flannery? Bill Nye the Science Guy?
      Repetition does not make anything true. Every drought, coral bleaching, variation in rainfall is not Climate Change. Every climate includes change. Australia is a ‘land of droughts and flooding rains’. That is not climate change. That is the weather.

      211

      • #
        TdeF

        Sorry, that is the Climate.

        121

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          I recommend https://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2017/06/01/foundations-of-greenhouse-theory-challenged-by-new-analysis-of-solar-system-observations/

          and the comments. It is about possible climate matters without jumped up geographers and economists using dodgy statistics.
          That will probably get me in moderation. Depends who is moderating tonight.

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          • #
            TdeF

            Very interesting. The effect of the blanket of atmosphere is related mainly to the weight of the blanket. Given that there are only three significant gases, nitrogen (78%. 28amu) and oxygen (21%, 32 amu) and noble gas Argon (1%, 40amu) it is a very limited set. They are very similar in weight. The big question relates to water and its many forms and unlike every other gas, it is not invisible and it can be both opaque and highly reflective, although as they say this leads to high negative feedback between clouds and evaporation.

            The science fact on which everyone is in agrement is that a 50% increase in CO2 is NOT enough to cause significant warming. This is ignored when people segue from CO2 is a Greenhouse gas and so CO2 is causing warming. No. No one thinks so. That is impossible.

            So what was proposed is another random unsupported idea that CO2 causes warming which causes evaporation and the H2O greenhouse effect causes more heating which causes more CO2. This far fetched and almost silly idea would produce a moist warm spot over the equator and it is not there, so the idea is wrong. No surprise there.

            What is missing from all that is the fact that warming increases CO2 anyway as 98% is in the ocean. So any observed increase in CO2 is most likely on simple principles a result of warming, not v.v.

            Anyway, the Fake science of CO2 produced warming never had a basis in science. It was always a crazy idea concocted to enable the IPCC to exist. Then the money men saw the potential in a Carbon Tax and so we have Goldmann Sachs GM Malcolm Turnbull as PM. What a coincidence. Carbon Taxes were the next big thing after fake mortgages and the GFC.

            Can we please have our real PM back? Can we please stop paying for windmills, $6Billion a year in Australia? Cash.

            Worse, the government is not answerable for the RET because it is not a government tax. It is not even in the budget. It is an illegal and massive imposition on Australians. According to Dr. Finkel, the RET does not exist.

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            • #
              el gordo

              ‘Can we please have our real PM back? ‘

              Too late.

              Tonight, in a gathering of pseudo marxist sympathisers, I was soundly abused. Not sure I have the bottle to carry on.

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              • #

                Once more into the breach, el gordo.

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              • #
                el gordo

                Its overwhelmingly depressing, must be the CO2 bubbles in the expensive champaign.

                Met a very funny fellow, had me rolling around the floor with laughter, and in a quiet moment he said it has nothing to do with climate change, ‘you should move on.’

                30

              • #
                Annie

                Chin up, El Gordo! Truth will out one day on a number of fronts although we might not be around for long enough to see the benefits. I think of my children and grandchildren and hope for them. Life is a funny old thing though.

                10

            • #
              Will Janoschka

              TdeF June 4, 2017 at 9:26 pm

              “Very interesting. The effect of the blanket of atmosphere is related mainly to the weight of the blanket. Given that there are only three significant gases, nitrogen (78%. 28amu) and oxygen (21%, 32 amu) and noble gas Argon (1%, 40amu) it is a very limited set.”

              Can you please give even one demonstration of Earth’s atmosphere expressing any ‘weight’, (gravitational accelerative force), whatsoever ? There can be none as atmosphere is everywhere self buoyant; a result of gravitational compression. Archimedes clearly demonstrated this in 271BC!

              “They are very similar in weight. The big question relates to water and its many forms and unlike every other gas, it is not invisible and it can be both opaque and highly reflective, although as they say this leads to high negative feedback between clouds and evaporation.”

              With water in addition to solid, liquid, and gas states there are two additional phases (actions); there are two colloids that share the latent heat at constant temperature. Most of the atmosphere’s power\energy is in the colloid between gas and liquid H2O! Such latent heat is continuously many multiples of atmospheric sensible heat relating to measurable temperature!
              Your Climate Clowns most seriously deny such existence as such would destroy the religious\political fantasy they spout!
              All the best!-will-

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              • #
                Graeme No.3

                Will Janoschka:

                The weight is the downward pressure exerted by some bloke sitting on a cloud, somebody called Loschmidt.

                00

              • #
                TdeF

                Once again, Will, I cannot tell if you are serious.

                The weight of the atmosphere above is the sole reason there is air pressure, pressure which keeps you from exploding. You would explode in space. The same in water, one atmosphere per 10 metres so 400 atmospheres at 1km. You can try it for yourself. Put 1 litre of bouyant water on scales. It will weigh one kg. Similarly 22.4 litres of Air will weigh at much as the amu, in kg. However you have to weigh it in a vacuum just as you have to weigh water out of water. The weight does not change.

                Buoyancy is the effect of the nett force, as discovered by archimedes. The pressure on the body up vs the weight down. It is why balloons rise. If you have enough of a difference, you can carry great weights as in a boat or zepplin.

                Enough.

                10

              • #
                Will Janoschka

                Graeme No.3 June 5, 2017 at 4:28 pm

                “Will Janoschka:The weight is the downward pressure exerted by some bloke sitting on a cloud, somebody called Loschmidt.”

                Sir Loschmidt had no error! He was trying desperately to explain the absolute differences between Gravitational acceleration (weight) of remote mass and the compressional force of gravitation compression on Earth’s atmospheric mass (outside the bottle) upon such atmospheric mass! Such gravitational compression, includes higher temperature at higher gas density\pressure, truly exists, in every known case!
                All the best!-will-

                21

              • #
                Will Janoschka

                TdeF June 5, 2017 at 4:37 pm

                “Once again, Will, I cannot tell if you are serious.”

                Not serious merely rigorous!

                “The weight of the atmosphere above is the sole reason there is air pressure, pressure which keeps you from exploding. You would explode in space.”

                Indeed! that pressure is not weight of atmospheric columnar mass, but instead PI times that force as atmospheric pressure.
                Weight is but a vector. Atmospheric pressure must be at any altitude a 3D scaled scalar of gravitational compression upon the mass of Earth’s atmosphere, at that location. That scaling is always PI. What is the mass of Earth’s atmosphere?

                01

              • #
                Will Janoschka

                Will Janoschka June 5, 2017 at 6:07 pm

                Graeme No.3 June 5, 2017 at 4:28 pm

                (“Will Janoschka:The weight is the downward pressure exerted by some bloke sitting on a cloud, somebody called Loschmidt.”)

                “Such gravitational compression, includes higher temperature at higher gas density\pressure, truly exists, in every known case!”

                This only confirms that EM ‘radiance’ (potential) from any compressible fluid at any ‘frequency’ is not a high power function of temperature’ alone, but a much more complex function of measurable pressure, density, and temperature, of such compressible fluid within any known gravitational field!
                Your Climate Clowns have no scientific knowledge, only religious\political fantasy!
                My most renowned peer reviewer, kitten shadow, adds,
                “vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv”, while seriously licking my face. :-)
                All the best!-will-

                11

              • #
                KinkyKeith

                Hi Will,

                I’m back.

                Without having rigorously read all the above I wish to comment never-the-less.

                The ideas that the atmosphere can have weight and also exert pressure are not mutually exclusive.

                Just two different ways of looking at the same thing when a different aspect of the situation is under scrutiny?

                KK

                00

            • #
              Bobl

              Not only that tdef it is energetically impossible, that is, it takes more energy to evaporate the water and raise it to the tropopause than is available from the CO2, when you take this into account the water feedback is much less than the models assume. That’s why the hot spot doesn’t appear.

              11

          • #
            Radical Rodent

            Odd. When I first read Harry Dale Huffman’s piece on this idea (published in 2010, but only relatively recently seen by me), it made so much sense. When I expressed this to others, on this site and others, I was either ignored, or otherwise put in my place. Interestingly, even on sites of the sceptics, no-one addressed the science of his arguments, they all just went for the character of the author. Ad homs, anyone?

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            • #
              AndyG55

              I’ve been saying for ages that the temperature is controlled by the incoming energy retained because of the temperature pressure gradient and the oceans.

              The very slight warming in the satellite record is easily explained by the Grand Solar Maximum of the latter half of last century heating the vast bulk of H2O that is our oceans, by a small amount.

              The ONLY warming has come from ocean related events.

              But the north Atlantic is turning cold as is the southern ocean.

              The predictions from the Evans notch theory could be pretty much spot on, with an error margin of a few months or so.

              50

              • #
                Will Janoschka

                AndyG55 June 5, 2017 at 8:51 am

                “I’ve been saying for ages that the temperature is controlled by the incoming energy retained because of the temperature pressure gradient and the oceans.”

                Indeed! See my #3.2.1.1.2 June 5, 2017 at 1:36 pm, For my explicit GUESS as to what the F**k is going on.
                Thank you!-will-

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    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Try President Trump believes in NATURAL Climate Change and that humans have a very MINOR role in it.

      150

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      RAH

      No it’s not fake news. It’s politics. There are many “luke warmers” which do believe that human activity is having some limited effect on climate. But the vast majority of them, like those that deny we humans are having any effect, are appalled at the lies and distortions and the corruption of science that the true believers condone. Thus the vast majority of luke warmers align much more closely with the true “deniers” than they do with the alarmists. My favorite luke warmers is Dr. Roy Spencer. He believes that up to half of the current warming that shows up in the satellite record may be due to human activity. I don’t agree, but I admire his academic integrity and the measured and forthright manner in which he expresses his views. And he has repeatedly been labeled a “denier” by the alarmists.

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        Roger

        It’s hard to deny that humans are having some effect on ‘global warming’ (the term climate change is the escape hatch for IPCC and climate scientists and I don’t like to encourage its use)… BUT I would submit that it is limited to a very few key aspects:

        1. The very real increase of temperatures in cities (UHI) due to increased energy use and heat trapped by buildings, roads etc and which is then

        2. used as part of the global temperature series But with a smaller adjustment to it than the difference between it and neighbouring rural stations (standard practice in the UK where UHI adjustments are around 1.5 deg C against night time winter temperature differences between London and rural surrounds of 4 – 5 deg C) thus creating the appearance of increased global temperature, and

        3. The serial adjustments made by ‘climate scientists’ to recorded temperatures from the first part of the 20th century and late 19th century to make these appear colder and thus recent temperatues hotter.

        4 The deliberate choice of the temperatures at the end of the Little Ice Age (a particularly cold period) as the starting point for ‘normal’ temperatures and enabling the IPCC and climate activists to claim that the normal recovery of global temperatures from the LIA was predominantly the fault of mankind.

        It should therefore be seen that mankind is affecting the temperature records – as opposed to temperatures – used to justify ‘global warming’ and thus must carry responsibility for that – but it is a very different and very dubious proposition that mankind is making the climate change or indeed making it warmer.

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        • #
          Will Janoschka

          “It should therefore be seen that mankind is affecting the temperature records – as opposed to temperatures – used to justify ‘global warming’ and thus must carry responsibility for that – but it is a very different and very dubious proposition that mankind is making the climate change or indeed making it warmer.”

          Mostly! Part of the scam! What is ‘temperature”? What is ‘power’? What is storage of power called ‘energy’. What is the use of power’ called ‘work’, also ‘action’ (Joule seconds).
          Your Climate Clowns only goal is to confuse the school induced ‘brainwashing’ of in innocent children into becoming serfs\slaves of the Bourgeois masters. “Yesser masta, don beat me no mor, I be good”!
          I am sure such will be regarded by the Bourgeois as racial\sexual ‘discrimination’ between those that Think they ‘know; and those, like all ‘nice’ critters, no matter how wary, admit they can only wonder of what may be next!
          All the best!-will-

          01

        • #
          Will Janoschka

          “It’s hard to deny that humans are having some effect on ‘global warming’” or anything else!

          Indeed! Earthlings are carefully designed to break anything\everything! GOD’s QC team!
          Have you seen 4, five year olds ‘destroy’ best ‘golf ball’, with help of daddy’s electric drill, and mommy’s knife? :-)

          00

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      Ross

      Talking about manufactured news, have a look at how CNN do it

      https://twitter.com/CaolanRob/status/871483335423528962

      They wonder why Trump goes on about fake news —here is all the ammunition he needs.

      10

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      PeterPetrum

      I think this is an interpretation of what Nikki Haley said, or else Haley is “interpreting” what Trump said and making as mess of it. Trump did refer to “pollutants” but not in reference to CO2, but to the issue of clean air and clean water. He has been quite consistent on this and has clearly differentiated between “climate change” and the environment. I think that there are many in the media who are happy to confuse the issue on what he has said and what he actually means.

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    • #
      RAH

      Mike
      I’m pretty sure you know the answer to that is MANY!

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      • #
        OriginalSteve

        One thing I noticed is how some of the “libertarian/alternative” news sources seem to run by the Establishment.

        Without naming names, after the the Manchester incident, I was shocked to see a video that basically screamed “hate hate hate”.

        Now, assuming you were the Establishment and trying to setup a stoush between both sides of the deal, how would you do it? Playing them off against each other seems logical….stir up one side, then the other, then let them at each other…..they wipe each other out, job done.

        Its being played out right now in the MSM.

        Be careful you are not caught up in it…..

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      RAH

      I long have had a great respect for the wisdom of Sir Winston Churchill. He was a very perceptive and eloquent writer even in his younger years. Here is an interesting quote from the original two volume set of The River War first published in 1899:

      [SNIP Winston Churchill Quote. Sorry. 18C. Hard to believe I'm snipping Winston. Can you supply a link instead? - Jo]

      No more proof is needed that even at the age of 29 Churchill would have made a better leader than those in charge now.

      20

      • #
        RAH

        I have had two remarks held for moderation because of the use of a common unoffensive term used to designate a particular religion. It seems to me you Aussies are well on the way to losing the right to freely express and discuss ideas if such thoughts are considered dangerous by the state (18C what ever that is). If a government can forbid the free exchange of information and ideas for one thing, they can do it for any they so desire at any time. I fear for your fundamental liberties. Are they striking that word from books or just burning them?

        120

        • #
          John Smith

          Here in the US we have the Bill If Rights.
          1st and 2nd amendments I’m figuring were in order of priority.
          The Left has been after number 2 for a while.
          Now they’ve set their sights on number 1 (puns will be banned).
          Easy pickings in some places.
          Just my opinion.
          As the name indicates, I am nobody.

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          • #
            TdeF

            Here in Australia we operate under British law without a Bill of Rights, something which grew out of the French revolutionary philosophies. The older British traditions of common law, judge made law and parliament made law is more about saying what is illegal. So if it is not illegal, you can do it. The US is more about rights. You can do something if you have the right to do it. This is a simple reversal, like the French presumption of guilt until innocence is proven.

            One of the problems in Australia at present is that we have a appalling Human Rights Commission, about International Rights which have no force in law in Australia. So the HRC chases people and extorts money from them for allegedly offending people, using a section 18C which makes it potentially illegal to offend. They are also guilty until proven innocent. This does not stand up generally in our courts, but the sheer cost of being prosecuted is so high, people pay up immediately, $5,000 at a time if someone complains that they have been made sad. Last year the HRC raised $350,000 from these $5,000 fines, so 70 cases where people paid up. It is an industry.

            The Australian HRC is a farce, a toothless tiger set up to intimidate and threaten with lawfare. It is a vehicle for the left to close down any debate and with a budget of $14million a year to prosecute anyone, this blog and others must avoid anything which might be deemed to offend. Some topics are banned. The mere mention of a certain religion, favorite of the left is verboten. This is the same religion of peace and feminism and equality. Of course.

            However I note that in the Manchester Massacre, the excuse that it was in response to Syria does not explain why a stadium full of pre teenage girls was targeted. Female children. That has nothing to do with Syria. That was a clear message that dancing and music and freedom for girls will not be tolerated.

            We can only hope that with Donald Trump’s leadership, Western values are promoted, not the extreme left which is socialist and utterly oppressive. Climate Change is one of the banners of left extremists. Kathy Griffin did the world a service when she made the connection between the violent left, the Elites, Hollywood, the entertainment industry and ISIS very plain.

            90

            • #
              OriginalSteve

              What concerns me is mass lynchings of people in the UK and france if this stuff continues….it will happen…history tells us so….

              01

              • #
                philthegeek

                If there are lynchings OSteve, they will be perpetrated by those who want to do the terrorists work for them, or by really really stupid people.

                Anyone does that they should be crushed like bugs.

                10

              • #
                OriginalSteve

                While the bulk of the population are decent people, they are also often a bit short on inetellect, witness the percentage of tabloid vs broadsheet newspapers.

                But, its this limited intellect that allows the Establishment to steer a country to do its bidding and the
                bulk of the brainwashed population will then keep their peers in line through harassment and/or humilaition ( “What did you do in the War, Daddy?” )

                History is only useful is we learn from it.

                10

              • #
                Sceptical Sam

                While the bulk of the population are decent people, they are also often a bit short on inetellect, witness the percentage of tabloid vs broadsheet newspapers.

                Steve I don’t wish to be too pernickity but what you say is only half correct.

                Yes, the majority of the population are decent people.

                However, by definition, the population as a whole has average IQ = 100. Which means that half of it is above average. Hence it is not possible for your statement on intellect to be correct.

                20

              • #
                JoKaH

                However, by definition, the population as a whole has average IQ = 100. Which means that half of it is above average. Hence it is not possible for your statement on intellect to be correct.

                When you realise how dumb the average person is, you then realise that half the population is even dumber than that!

                20

              • #
                Will Janoschka

                “However, by definition, the population as a whole has average IQ = 100. Which means that half of it is above average. Hence it is not possible for your statement on intellect to be correct.”

                Indeed! The true fallacy of ‘statistical’ mechanics! Where on retrieval of auto you ‘may’ get home. For ‘quantum’ mechanics, on retrieval of auto on the way home, half your wheels must ‘probity’ fall off! Best to get a mechanic with hard learned ‘skill’, not over-education !
                Oh woha are we!-will-

                10

              • #
                TdeF

                My life’s experience tells me that most people are smart enough. Really dumb people are rare. However people use their intelligence in many ways. Some are good with tools, graphics, music, voice. Some are good with mathematics. Some have a great sense of direction and some get lost in a revolving door. Some are students and others learn by doing. Some learn from their mistakes and many do not. Some are cunning, some good hagglers and some have no idea. The world needs all these people.

                The line is like from Santayana, “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” It is a major reason to study history and a real problem now that history courses in Australia are increasingly cutting out study of European history and concentrating on Australian history [snip]. Why? Nothing much happened.

                20

              • #
                TdeF

                My life’s experience tells me that most people are smart enough. Really dumb people are rare. However people use their intelligence in many ways. Some are good with tools, graphics, music, voice. Some are good with mathematics. Some have a great sense of direction and some get lost in a revolving door. Some are students and others learn by doing. Some learn from their mistakes and many do not. Some are cunning, some good hagglers and some have no idea. The world needs all these people.

                40

              • #
                TdeF

                Santayana, Spanish philosopher 1852-1952, “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”

                It is a major reason to study history and a real problem now that history courses in Australia are increasingly cutting out study of European history and concentrating on Australian history. Why? Nothing much happened.

                plus

                “Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and it is shameful to surrender it too soon or to the first comer: there is nobility in preserving it coolly and proudly through long youth, until at last, in the ripeness of instinct and discretion, it can be safely exchanged for fidelity and happiness.”

                A proud lifelong skeptic and scientist, or as others would have it, a dangerously rabid denier.

                30

              • #
                Ted O'Brien.

                I was once told by a scholar that only one in forty of the population has the mental capacity to initiate new thinking.

                With my head buried in the sand in the back blocks I had already formed the opinion that the proportion of the population who could successfully consider a problem with more than one variable in it was less than 10% and possibly as low as 1%. So 2.5% fitted right in there.

                It could be easy to panic for the future of the human race over this. However, when you look around, we are not doing all that badly. We can still hold out hope.

                10

              • #
                Rick Will

                I have doubts that anyone can comprehend the interaction of three time dependent and related variables. That is where computers become useful.

                00

              • #
                Will Janoschka

                “I have doubts that anyone can comprehend the interaction of three time dependent and related variables. That is where computers become useful.”
                I disagree! This is where computers become useless!

                00

              • #
                Will Janoschka

                “I have doubts that anyone can comprehend the interaction of three time dependent and related variables.”
                Indeed! but any 3 month infant can wonder, spit up, and consider such, easily! That is what they do!! “Mommy” always gets to interpret such infant wonderful discovery to political fools! such as you, for profit!

                00

              • #
                Bobl

                If those variable are linear, invariant and deterministic then they can be modeled, but if they are non linear, variant and non deterministic then you can’t model them.

                Many people assume you can average anything but it’s not true GPS for example has a thing called selective availability that can limit accuracy to 100m, the interesting thing about it is that its integral is no more stable than the variable, so you can’t average it!

                The climate is the integral of weather, weather is non deterministic, variant and non linear, it has hysteresis and is time dependent, you can’t average this and you particularly can’t use Scalar math yet this is what the models do.

                00

              • #
                Will Janoschka

                “It could be easy to panic for the future of the human race over this. However, when you look around, we are not doing all that badly. We can still hold out hope.”

                Please consider the vast God given knowledge of those earthlings yet unborn! Each is individual and each has God given knowledge; a wee part what is known by all others! By GOD! Go forth and multiply! However do not go forth and exponentiate! Such would truly “piss me off” :-)

                10

              • #
                Will Janoschka

                TdeF June 5, 2017 at 4:46 pm

                “My life’s experience tells me that most people are smart enough. Really dumb people are rare.”

                Reticently (Nov), in the USA more than half the voters are not only dumb, they are incompetent, as voters as well! We were saved by the Electoral College. :-)

                Do we need all the folk? Yes! Each has some wee bit of skill\knowledge\understanding that no other has at all, that is the meaning of ‘each’ rather than ‘herd\slaves’. Easy to manage ‘herd’ is all the demo-Marxists, MSM, aver for all ‘that do not believe.’
                The total aggregate of whatever ‘each uniquely has’, is the closest folk well ever get to understanding the LOVE of an “all knowledgeable GOD!” Must be frightfully boring!
                All the best!-will-

                10

              • #
                Will Janoschka

                “Must be frightfully boring!”

                Sorry! I keep forgetting ‘proper time’, the additional gift (should you wish to consider), of ‘not boring’! Simultaneity! Both time and frequency are necessarily imaginary; at least locally!
                All the best!-will-

                10

        • #
          Watt

          18C sounds like quite a good global average temperature to be aiming for.

          50

        • #
          PeterPetrum

          I am at a loss to know why Jo and her moderators are cutting any reference to a certain midddle eastern religion. It is not a race and is not (yet) covered by 18c. Over the last few days the Australian has been full of articles on this issue with the word freely used in relation to terrorism.

          However, as this is meant to be a scientific site, I can understand that she does not want discussion of an unrelated issue to cause problems.

          20

          • #
            Will Janoschka

            “I am at a loss to know why Jo and her moderators are cutting any reference to a certain midddle eastern religion. It is not a race and is not (yet) covered by 18c.”

            Such is interpreted by ignorant AU politicians as LAW. Bad S**t. Do not fight such evil politicians! Please go around them back to the fine populace that such politicians are supposed to represent, but never do! PLEASE! So much for any sort of ‘representative’ government!
            Oh woha are we!-will-

            30

          • #
            Raven

            PeterPetrum #42

            It is not a race and is not (yet) covered by 18c.

            I don’t blame Jo for avoiding even a hint if crossing the 18c line.
            It’s annoying but just not worth it as a private citizen.

            Imagine getting a Gillian Triggs fan off-side and all the money and hassle dealing with that.

            10

        • #
          toorightmate

          RAH,
          We are NOT on the way to losing the fight.
          WE HAVE LOST IT.

          00

      • #
        RAH

        Yes I can provide a link that says almost the same thing. The problem is that they left out the following “Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen; all know how to die”. But this link provides the quote and citation as to where to find it.
        http://blog.godreports.com/2015/01/winston-churchill-warned-about-dangers-of-radical-islam-over-100-years-ago/

        BTW the 1st issue of The River War was in two volumes. The whole quote I provided can only found in that 1st issue. The 2nd issue was consolidated and somewhat abridged into a single volume and does not have it in it. The Winston Churchill society has in the past attested to the validity of the quote I provided from the 1st issue.

        10

  • #
    RAH

    Over on Tony Heller’s blog I posted this about the thought processes or rather lack of them required for a leftist to continue to hold their world views when faced with facts and events which run counter to what they so steadfastly believe to be the truth.

    “On occasion we have posters here complain that Tony is going off the rails when he blogs about world events and politics that they believe have nothing to do with the Climate Change Scam. Besides the obvious fact that a blogger can blog about what ever he or she wants on their own blog there is a key fact that such complainers have failed to perceive. That fact is that it is the same lack of logic and integrity of thought that is the basis for the politically correct mindset and world view is a key factor in believing and promoting the concept that human activity can cause major changes in the climate of this planet. Here is a prime example:
    Ed Straker at the American Thinker blog decided to see what our enlightened progressives have to say about the Islamic Terrorist attack at London Bridge.  To do so he read the comments sections of the Huffington Post and Washington Post.  The comments he shows only serves to highlight exactly how far off the tracks of logic and common sense so many people will go when their strongly held beliefs in political correctness which forms their total world view conflicts with the realities of actual events in the real world. 

    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/06/guess_how_liberals_reacted_to_the_islamic_attack_in_london.html

    And there in a nut shell is why so many of these same types buy into the AGW/Climate Change scam whole heartedly.

    20

  • #
    MudCrab

    Anyone got any suggestions as to which company I should get ripped off by with my power bills?

    Lately I have been getting a lot of AGL ads via Youtube. For those who haven’t seen the ad you get a smug git telling us that coal is evil and that AGL will be leaving it.

    So, currently seriously planning to ditch AGL out of spite. Any suggestions?

    61

    • #
      GD

      Muddy, I’ve tried a couple, after being with AGL in Victoria for many years. The newer players are slightly cheaper, from my experience, but only marginally. I’m with Alinta at the moment. Simply Energy sent a wonderful rep around to extoll the virtues of her company, but having just changed, I declined. My neighbours who took up her offer are happy. I’m getting good customer service from Alinta. My gas is still with AGL and those ads annoy the heck out of me as well; almost enough to change to Alinta. However, it becomes tiresome changing providers and their spiel about lower rates is obfuscating at best.

      60

  • #
    toorightmate

    At 5:00 pm yesterday (3/06), all the wind turbines in Victoria and South Australia were generating 8MW of power.
    I do hope the fine people of those two states used those 8MW wisely.

    171

  • #
    el gordo

    ‘Former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg is so upset that President Trump has cancelled payments to the UN Green Fund, he is sending his own money to the UN.’

    Eric Worrall (WUWT)

    30

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      That’s got to be fake news.

      Socialists only spend other peoples’ money.

      110

    • #
      Oliver K. Manuel

      Former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg is a bag of wind, with no intention of sending his own money to the UN, he was volunteering to send money from yet another group of innocent taxpayers to the UN.

      71

    • #
      Will Janoschka

      ‘Former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg is so upset that President Trump has cancelled payments to the UN Green Fund, he is sending his own money to the UN.’

      Is that earned money or ‘scammed’ money from poor NY folk? Follow da money!

      00

  • #
    toorightmate

    I liked the Pickering suggestion of burying them as Christians.

    30

  • #
    AndyG55

    Never could figure out what use 40 virgins would be, once you had blown yourself to pieces.

    The mechanics of the whole thing elude me.

    101

    • #
      TdeF

      I have read it was 70 or 72 virgins. Bit harsh really. Get to paradise and you are shortchanged on virgins. Given that the virgins must be eternal, its a wonder you need so many but to be gypped by 30-32 virgins is a bit rough. Gypped came from WW1 when the soldiers were tricked by the Egyptians, gyppos. Also the British thought the Romany came from Egypt, so they were called Gypsies. The French thought they were from southern Germany, so they were called Bohemenians and the Spanish though they were from Spanish Flanders, so they were called Flamenco. Others thought Romania, so Romany. Anyway it must be hard to be ripped off by so much. Gypped.

      30

      • #
        TdeF

        This was in response to AndyG55 at #10.

        00

      • #
        Watt

        The colourful ‘Paisley’ patterns employed by gypsies around Ste. Marie de la Mer in the French Camargue are thought to originate from Pakistan.

        30

        • #
          Watt

          This #20 was a supplementary to TdeF’s #18

          20

        • #
          TdeF

          Yes, very likely as were the Gypsies themselves who arrived across Europe very late, around 1000AD. At that point the India and Pakistan did not exist. France itself was a third of the current size. The much earlier settlers after the glaciers melted were also from Northern India, a fair skinned tribe called Aryans. This was all very important to Hitler, who was looking to create the myth of the master race and was probably very disappointed to find his master race origins were in India but might explain his vegetarianism.

          30

          • #
            Graeme No.3

            Cannot quite agree. The Aryans were supposedly a race of nomads who migrated from the Steppes, with some going west into Europe and some into Persia (now Iran) and hence via Afghanistan to India.
            There is a connection through the various languages hence the term Indo-European.

            Hitler came from Austria and according to a German friend ….No, I can see trouble coming with 18C if I go on.

            10

            • #
              Graeme No.3

              That was supposed to be a response to No. 31 by TdeF.

              10

            • #
              TdeF

              The key is language. Like religion you inherit from your parents like your genes. The boom areas for humans are India and SE Asia and as the ice age ended, people could escape the crowds and head north. The Climate changed suddenly, 10,000 years ago. The seas rose 100 metres, the Bosphorous broke and drove the people away from the Black Sea, Noah’s flood. We have a date now within 10 years.

              Having been in the steppes of Russia, no one lives there and Russia and Latin are remarkably like old Indian languages in structure, gender, grammar, declensions, conjugations, endings. Philologists who went to India thought the Indians learned from the North, but quickly found that they were the originators. It was a shock to the British.

              Today’s archeologists are now they are combining language with mitachondria/RNA with archeology and really can plot the path of early human migrations. The Aryans were Indians. As for Hitler being Austrian, sure but 150 years ago there was no Germany or Italy or Greece or Australia and America was just forming during their civil war. Nationalities were debatable. Even the Habsburg empire had three official languages. Tribes were much clearer.

              What was really odd about Hitler’s theories was that he was forced to exclude the Slav (Slave) races of the Steppes when they are potentially closer to being Aryan than he was. In that we agree, the Slavs of the Steppes were of Aryan origin. However the adaption to the incredible cold of the Steppe winters was made by peoples from India where food is plentiful and the climate warm.

              I have read that a naked man would could not survive 20C, a temperature most would consider warm. The food bowls of humanity were in Asia with their fruit trees and monkeys. In Africa it is more about grazing animals, grass plains and carnivores. The invention of Agriculture 10,000 years ago was the breakthrough.

              20

      • #
        Raven

        Gypsies . .
        Back in England when I was a kid, the gypsies used to come around every few months. We lived in the country (Kent) and my Dad was in the Army, so he was hardly ever home.

        They traveled in their typical horse drawn covered wagons and would sharpen Mums scissors and knives. She also used to by their clothes pegs. The pegs were hand made using two pieces of shaped wood that just pushed over the clothes line. The two wooden halves were held together at the top by a strip cut from tin cans. I remember the printing was still on the tin strip (ferrel).

        They were nice people and Mum used to provide scones or cake or something as well as paying for the service. All that was a perfectly normal part of life.

        Later, we moved to London to await the ship in order to come to OZ – Yep, the ten quid special.
        In London, I used to go out with my Uncle. He had a short-wheelbase Landrover for his Govt. job which was chasing gypsies off Govt. land.
        Given my upbringing and young age, I never figured out why he was doing that.

        20

      • #
        Will Janoschka

        Hah! just as now! :-)

        00

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Fuzzy logic would suggest a little piece for every one….critical thinking isn’t a strong suit for any man that thinks they can handle more than one woman at once…or any woman for that matter.

      20

    • #
      philthegeek

      what use 40 virgins would be,

      The virgins thing is now generally accepted to be a translation error. Its actually raisins so a rather disappointing for a dead terrorist when they get to the afterlife whatever bits they have intact. Karmas a bitch wot??

      00

    • #
      PeterPetrum

      Have you not seen the photos of guys with bomb belts around their chests and a concrete slab hung over their crotch, to make sure they the important bits are still available for those virtgins? Talk about deluded.

      20

      • #
        Raven

        Why on earth would anyone want 72 virgins anyway.
        Personally, I’d rather have one woman who actually knows what she’s doing.

        40

    • #
      Will Janoschka

      :-)

      00

  • #
    RAH

    Achmed the dead terrorist found out that there was no guarantee that the 72 virgins would be female.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBvfiCdk-jc

    60

  • #
    GD

    Tonight, in a gathering of pseudo marxist sympathisers, I was soundly abused.

    I feel your pain. No matter which way I turn, the MSM or ABC are continually pounding the AGW mantra. It’s no wonder that most people, who don’t read conservative/skeptic blogs, are totally convinced that Man is responsible for the climate changing for the worse; heating the planet and destroying the atmosphere.

    In Australia, this is despite the evidence experienced every day when you step outside and feel the chill of winter and the thrill of clear blue skies on a cold winter’s day.

    Unfortunately, the brainwashing is almost complete; the education system has done a remarkable job of convincing our younger generations that we are headed for disaster. The ABC is making sure that the oldies who watch ‘Antiques Roadshow’ are glad that soon they’ll fall off the perch to avoid climate calamity. In reality, many ‘oldies’ are thankful that they won’t be around to face the increasing threat of terrorism. I don’t know anyone over sixty who bemoans the imagined ‘change in the climate’. Terrorism, on the other hand, is of concern for themselves, their children and their grandchildren.

    Will this mass delusion be a subject of discussion in fifty years’ time? Will the coming generations wonder and ponder at the insanity of climate alarmism? Or will they too be captured and enthralled like our current crop of so-called leaders and experts* by the notion that we can control the climate?

    *Unfortunately, many ‘leaders and experts’ know full well that AGW is a scam, which makes this insanity even more galling.

    [Two references removed to Islam, because there is no free speech in Australia, and we might offend someone. 18C. - Jo]

    50

    • #
      GD

      AZ, no evidence? Have you read the papers yesterday and today? Why are you so afraid of the ‘I’ word?

      [None of Jo's moderators enjoys blocking a comment for content that should be protected under any decent standard of free speech. And we enjoy it even less when the subject so desperately needs discussion.] AZ

      70

      • #
        Annie

        I feel for Jo and the mods…it’s a very difficult situation. We might as well be in the old communist bloc these days, or heading in that direction anyway. I can’t believe the number of decent people I’ve met who’ve swallowed both the global warming scam and the bleeding heart, politically correct, social justice warrior versions of ‘refugee’ incomers.

        Before our dear friends of the red thumbs get too het up I am all for supporting genuine refugees and the government should screen these very carefully. We have supported a family seeking refuge in Australia, along with other church members, and that lovely family is a huge asset to Australia.

        Unfortunately, some of those given refuge in Britain have deeply abused our culture and hospitality.

        10

    • #
      el gordo

      Thanks GD

      ‘Will this mass delusion be a subject of discussion in fifty years’ time?’

      Much earlier than that, the hiatus cannot continue forever so something has to give.

      On an earlier post I mentioned that if the pause in temperatures continue into the decade ahead then we have won (because of the massive model failure), but now I realise it would be a victory for the dark side.

      20

    • #
      el gordo

      …. and I’ll just drop this in here to avoid the carnage down below.

      ‘A tsunami of outrage swept across Germany right after President Donald Trump announced dropping out of the Paris Accord (and not to transfer billions of taxpayer money over to the UN each year).

      ‘It appears the President’s bold and courageous move is leading to potentially dangerous pockets of energy policy and climate science uprising in Germany.’

      - See more at: http://notrickszone.com/#sthash.pP0M3ggd.dpuf

      00

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        “It appears the President’s bold and courageous move is leading to potentially dangerous pockets of energy policy and climate science uprising in Germany.”

        Shoudl read

        “It appears the President’s bold and courageous move is leading to potentially dangerous pockets of people actually thinking for themselves, growing a backbone and telling the useless Socialists to take a long walk off a short pier……”.

        10

  • #
    Oliver K. Manuel

    It will be interesting to watch how the US NAS responds to the Climategate fiasco;

    Will NAS retain control over annual review of budgets and programs of federal research agencies for Congress, . . .

    or will NAS be relieved of that responsibility and face criminal charges of treason?

    11

    • #
      Oliver K. Manuel

      The future survival of democracy may depend on our willingness to face these unpleasant choices for the US National Academy of Sciences.

      11

  • #
    Mike M.

    Can someone answer the question:

    If the loss of arctic sea ice albedo causes warming in the arctic – why has there been no evidence of warmer temperature there in the summer time for almost the last 60 years?

    http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php

    30

    • #
      Watt

      To Mike M.’s #11: Because you don’t get so much sea ice in the summer anyway ?

      10

    • #
      Rick Will

      Reduced sea ice actually causes greater heat loss as sea ice insulates the surface. That is obvious from the chart as you can see the surface temperature is usually much colder than the freezing temperature of water that the ice is floating on. Once exposed the water loses more heat than when insulated by the ice.

      So, in fact, loss of sea ice causes cooling – greater rate of heat loss. The fact that the water is hotter from time-to-time is due to heat gained by the ocean at lower latitudes and carried northward. The same thing happens around Antarctica.

      The extent of sea ice is an important regulator of the global thermal balance – therefore global temperature control. If more heat was being retained at lower latitudes then the average sea extend would be reducing to allow more heat loss at the poles. It has been essentially constant since modern records began:
      https://1drv.ms/b/s!Aq1iAj8Yo7jNgVQxxALD4EXWLeWB
      Although it does vary over an annual cycle and recedes and increases cyclically over longer periods at either pole, the annual average is near constant.

      20

  • #
    TdeF

    You wonder how this latest disaster in London will affect the UK elections. BREXIT was all about control of British laws and especially British immigration. The ingratitude of the Libyan family given shelter from Gaddaffi regime is unbelievable. This is a new type of migration, an invasion by a different and incompatible culture. CLEXIT has exposed the really nasty side of the climate argument also. It is not about science but the side of politics. Disagree with the Left in politics and Kathy Griffin shows exactly the same inclination. A lot of people around the world have noted the extremism and violence of the left on both subjects, Climate and Immigration. It will swing elections. The media’s Je Suis Charlie was utterly insincere. The censorious left are in fact more on the other side.

    51

  • #
    TdeF

    My comment just went in at #9. Oh, well. It has been a busy weekend. Champagne one day. Tragedy the next.

    30

  • #
    doubtingdave

    Its interesting to explore why Trump has rejected the Paris agreement and most importantly the reaction to it , I have come to realise over the years that global warming has never been about the science , despite being encouraged on sceptical blogs like this, to always stick to the science , most of us have realised that it is really about social control , and to understand that , you have to look back into history to find similar attempts to control populations by what we now know to be a fake political or religious ideology , I try at times to do that on this blog but although Jo and the mods allow it , I get hostility from other commenters that take my opinions as a personal attack on their own political or religious believes

    30

  • #
    Mark M

    Tasmanian farmers Australians call on BOM to improve flood warning system after devastation from 2016 deluge.

    Thousands of livestock drowned and the damage bill is running into tens of millions of dollars.

    Two people died and one is still missing.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-04/tasmanian-farmers-call-for-improved-flood-warning-after-2016/8582994

    2011 Queensland floods:

    35 people died in the flooding, and property damage and other economic losses amounted to billions of dollars.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-08-01/flood-inquiry-report-released/2819106

    There. Fixed that for their ABC.

    Also, the BoM needs to improve their carbon (sic) induced warning systems on:

    - cyclones:

    “Being perfectly honest, [Global Warming] is a factor in most of our climate science these days but in terms of tropical cyclones you couldn’t put this season down to [Global Warming],” Dr Andrew Watkins the manager of climate prediction services at the bureau said.
    “basic physics” governed that [Global Warming] would increase the intensity of cyclones in the future.
    It does not, however, explain this season’s anomaly.”

    http://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/climate-change/cyclone-blanche-is-latest-to-cross-land-in-second-consecutive-quiet-season-in-australian-history/news-story/220bd07cbd24d1db32cfd2175d3ec2ac

    - Permanent drought:

    “IT MAY be time to stop describing south-eastern Australia as gripped by drought and instead accept the extreme dry as permanent, one of the nation’s most senior weather experts warned yesterday.

    “Perhaps we should call it our new climate,” said the Bureau of Meteorology’s head of climate analysis, David Jones.”

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/environment/this-drought-may-never-break/2008/01/03/1198949986473.html
    . . .
    What a sad litany of carbon (sic) induced failed predictions from our Bureau of Meteorology.

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    Another Ian

    For Tony in Oz to add tohis list

    “Mothballed power station brought back on line to help ease power price volatility”

    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/mothballed-power-station-brought-back-on-line-to-help-ease-power-price-volatility/news-story/3d8115e04c2014cf9c1a23c295cb3289

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    • #
      TdeF

      Mothballed Power station restarted in response to “failures in the National Energy Market”. Laughable.

      It’s amazing how politicians blame everyone but themselves for skyrocketing energy prices while the public are being slugged $6,000,000,000 a year for the right to buy coal or gas or even diesel power.

      The renamed Renewable Electricity Act (2000) is about Certificates, Carbon Credits. A carbon tax in everything but name. Of course later they called it the RET which is supposed to stand for Renewable Energy Target again to hide that it is really the world’s greatest Renewable Energy Tax.

      According to the great lie, high prices are not the fault of any government. At least Obama admitted electricity prices would ‘skyrocket’. Not one of our brave politicians on any side will admit this.

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      pat

      Another Ian -

      from your link:

      Energy Minister Mark Bailey said it would also help ensure supply during summer.
      ***“We can’t control the weather but we can take action now to bring the state-owned Swanbank E gas-fired power station back online in time for the summer months,” Mr Bailey said.

      BUT THEY CAN CONTROL THE CLIMATE!?

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    • #

      This power plant now brought back online is the Swanbank E plant.

      It is a natural gas fired plant which is CCGT, (Combined Cycle Gas Turbine) hence a gas turbine driving a generator, and the waste heat from the turbine itself driving a smaller turbine/generator.

      It was mothballed in 2014, after only 12 years operation, so it’s still a relatively new plant, probably mothballed because of the huge rise in the cost of the natural gas itself.

      It’s a 385MW plant, owned by the State owned corporation Stanwell Corp.

      Hmm, what is it about that Company. They hold two World records for their power plants.

      This CCGT unit holds the World record for non stop running, delivering its full power, at 254 continuous days, and that’s not bad considering its basic design for the turbine is similar to a jet aircraft engine. That was from one maintenance period to the next in 2011, the year prior to it being mothballed.

      One of their coal fired units at the Stanwell Plant (4 X 365MW Units for a Nameplate of 1460MW) here in Rockhampton, unit 1, holds the World record for non stop continuous operation at full power for 1087 day, almost three years, flat out. Stanwell power station is only 25Km as the crow flies from where I am sitting now. I’ve tried a couple of times to get a tour of the place, but the reply was that they don’t do public tours. This plant is a SuperCritical plant, so one technology level below HELE USC.

      So, Queensland has a 50% renewables target, and the first plant to come on line is a CO2 emitter. (hypocrisy not)

      Tony.

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        Bob

        TonyfromOz #16.3

        “Hmm, what is it about that Company. They hold two World records for their power plants.”

        In 2000, I supplied three Pentium III 550, 64 MB RAM, 6.4 GB hard drive, to Stanwell!

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          toorightmate

          Stanwell was a model for world power generation and employee relations when it opened, but a few years of QLD Labor Govt put paid to that.

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        RAH

        I think for some time to come NG fueled turbines are going to be used for electrical power. They are used extensively in the US for peaking stations because they can be fired up more quickly than any other type of generating facility. Even plants originally constructed as coal burners and converted to NG can come online much more quickly than most other types. There is one peaking station using these gas turbines not far from me that was built right on the site of a gas well.

        A little history you might find interesting. The second fleet aircraft carrier the United States Navy commissioned was the USS Lexington, CV-2. (Yes, for those that know your WW II history, it is the same ship lost in the Battle of Coral Sea). The Lexington was built on a hull and using the machinery that was intended to be a fast battlecruiser but due to the Washington Naval Treaty plans were changed and she was made an Aircraft Carrier. Her machinery was of a new experimental type never before used in such a large ship. Oil fired boilers supplied the steam for turbines which turned generators which powered huge electric motors that turned her props. Such as system is expensive but much more responsive to throttle than any of the other systems in use at the time.

        In December of 1929 the city of Tacoma Washington was suffering a severe drought. Because the cities chief source of electric power were hydro plants and the reservoirs were dangerously low there was great concern about the electric power supply to the city. Answering the cities request the US Navy sent the Lexington and for a month until the rains came, stayed tied up at a dock from which she supplied electrical power for the city.
        http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/02.htm

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        Andrew McRae

        Yep, saw that and knew you’d be onto it.
        http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-05/power-prices-should-go-down-under-qld-plan-premier-palaszczuk/8589976
        Amazing quotes in that article.

        Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk said the Government wanted to use its mix of coal, gas and renewable energy to lead the nation in stabilising household and business power bills and creating jobs.
        Ms Palaszczuk said the issue would be discussed this week at the Council of Australian Governments (COAG) meeting.
        “In recent times we’ve seen a series of problems across Australia that indicates that the National Energy Market is faltering,” she said.
        “So we need intervention and we need clear policy direction from Canberra and from [Prime Minister] Malcolm Turnbull.”

        Government intervention in the market led to more renewables to destabilise the supply, gold-plating of the distribution network, and caused prices to rise, so of course the Labor solution is more state intervention and more renewables.
        Once again the strategy of politicians is not to solve the problem, but to raise the demand for the faux-solution they offer.
        It’s not even funny now.

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    Another Ian

    Interesting move to declare nuclear electricity as “green”
    mentioned in

    http://euanmearns.com/blowout-week-179/

    Via http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2017/06/blowout-179.html#comments

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    Bob

    “Telstra backs 70MW Queensland solar farm”

    “Telstra is backing a $100 million Queensland solar farm, with the telco entering a long-term power purchase agreement with the operator of the yet-to-be-built facility, RES Australia.”

    https://www.computerworld.com.au/article/620041/telstra-backs-70mw-queensland-solar-farm/?utm_campaign=computerworld-today-pm-edition-2017-05-31

    So, will that be another $100 million wasted?

    Interestingly, “Telstra won’t use the energy from the solar farm directly. Instead the arrangement will be akin to the power purchase agreements (PPAs) that Google has struck with renewable energy producers in the US.”

    In other words, by itself the solar farm is useless unless there is a “normal” grid with baseload energy provision.

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    pat

    VIDEO: 48secs: 4 Jun: RealClearPolitics: Al Gore: I Don’t Have A Private Jet; “I Live A Carbon-Free Lifestyle”
    by Tim Hains
    JAKE TAPPER,CNN: This is a criticism we hear from conservatives all the time when talking about people like you or Elon Musk or Leonardo DiCaprio, that you, yourself, have a large carbon footprint.
    GORE: “Well, I don’t have a private jet. And what carbon emissions come from my trips on Southwest Airlines are offset. I live a carbon-free lifestyle, to the maximum extent possible.”
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/06/04/al_gore_i_dont_have_a_private_jet_i_live_a_carbon-free_lifestyle.html

    from the first question, no matter what George Stephanopoulos asks, Gore manages to answer by spruiking solar and wind:

    VIDEO: 5mins50secs: 4 Jun: ABC America: Nicki Rossoll: Trump team is ‘tongue-tied’ on climate change because ‘the truth is still inconvenient’: Al Gore
    GORE: “The number one fastest-growing job is wind power technician,” Gore said. “The renewable energy sector and the sustainability revolution are the brightest spot for economic growth and prosperity in this country.”
    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-team-tongue-tied-climate-change-truth-inconvenient/story?id=47820813

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    pat

    4 Jun: AFR: Industry prefers an EIS, but swings behind LET to resolve climate impasse
    by Mark Ludlow & Andrew Tillett
    Business, industry groups and the ***Nationals’ leadership have backed a move to a Low Emissions Target scheme to end a decade of instability and confusion over Australia’s climate policies with the Turnbull government moving to win over nervous backbenchers ahead of the next election.
    The final report of chief scientist Alan Finkel into Australia’s energy security on Friday is expected to provide support for an LET after the government’s Climate Change Authority backed it as a second best option late last week…

    An LET or “clean energy target” could appease the Coalition’s conservative flank by effectively expanding the current Renewable Energy Target to include other low-emissions technologies, such as gas, ultra-clean coal-fired power stations and carbon capture and storage.
    A technology-neutral LET could push up the share of renewables to ***70 per cent by 2030 while driving coal down to 20 per cent, according to modelling conducted by the Climate Change Authority last year

    Minerals Council of Australia chief executive Brendan Pearson stopped short of backing an LET, saying the Finkel Review in its current form, including an EIS, would increase electricity prices…

    Grattan Institute energy program director Tony Wood said the risk for the Turnbull government was the LET would be seen by Coalition backbenchers as “another version of an EIS”.
    “The end result of all of this is we have the third or best policy but it’s better than nothing,” he said…

    WA Liberal Senator Chris Back said it would be “unconscionable” if businesses and families were slugged twice by higher power prices through the introduction of a LET of top of the existing RET…
    http://www.afr.com/news/politics/industry-prefers-an-eis-but-swings-behind-let-to-resolve-climate-impasse-20170604-gwk00e

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      pat

      another example of faux concern about “average consumers”, but listen to latter part at least, where Wood is talking of agreements to pay gas-fired power plants to sit idle in case they are needed in SA when the wind doesn’t blow, etc.

      Wood and Vanstone somehow leave listeners with the impression this will save the day, and won’t increase the cost of electricity further!

      AUDIO: 11mins11secs: 29 May: ABC Counterpoint: Amanda Vanstone: Let there be light: the power crisis we can avoid
      There’s a looming power crisis facing Australia, threatening to inflict pain on average consumers.
      While Australians are already being hit by rising power prices, they now face the prospect of serious disruptions to supply.

      The Grattan Institute has put governments on notice that they have a limited time to fix the problem. But how?
      Guest: Tony Wood, Energy Program Director, Grattan Institute
      http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/counterpoint/canberra-warned:-the-power-crisis-we-can-avoid/8571154

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    pat

    4 Jun: NBC: Meet The Press
    (SCROLL DOWN)
    CHUCK TODD: Mr. Secretary (JOHN KERRY), I want to move to the Paris deal. You were intricately involved. It’s why we invited you on the show…
    The Financial Times back when you were negotiating this, here was what was said. “Some experts have argued that while Mr. Obama is making the case for a deal, there is no guarantee that his successor, assuming it is a Republican climate change skeptic, would not walk away from a Paris agreement…
    Do you now regret not making this treaty ratified in the United States Senate, forcing it to be codified here?…

    FMR. SEC. OF STATE JOHN KERRY: No. Really not because it wouldn’t have happened. It’s very simple. Let’s be realistic about it. The president made an executive agreement because that was the best that we could do. And we presumed that common sense, that basic economics, that science would ultimately prevail.
    I don’t think anybody could have predicted that we would have seen a story like we saw in the New York Times today about how the Republican Party has traveled lock, stock, and barrel into the hands of the Koch brothers and special interests where they are prepared to stand up and deny science and deny facts.
    I mean, what does Donald Trump know that Rex Tillerson, the former CEO of Exxon-Mobil, doesn’t know? What does he know that the CEO of Apple, of Google, of General Electric, of companies all across America who urged the president not to pull out? What does Donald Trump know that President Xi, who runs an enormous economy, or President Macron, or Chancellor Merkel, or Theresa May don’t know?…
    And I will say to you if you truly understand the science, if you have done your due diligence and homework, there is no way that you cannot conclude that there’s an urgency to doing something. And you would not pull out of Paris…

    CHUCK TODD: All right. I take you at your word on that on this urgency issue. Obviously you have a roadblock of a good chunk of Americans who do not believe this urgency…
    FMR. SEC. OF STATE JOHN KERRY: No, the majority of Americans–
    CHUCK TODD: I understand.
    FMR. SEC. OF STATE JOHN KERRY: The majority of Americans support action on–
    CHUCK TODD: Right, but–
    FMR. SEC. OF STATE JOHN KERRY: –climate change and–
    CHUCK TODD: But as you–
    FMR. SEC. OF STATE JOHN KERRY: –support staying in Paris.
    CHUCK TODD: I know. But as you understand, there is a political divide…

    FMR. SEC. OF STATE JOHN KERRY: Last year because of Paris, more money was spent on alternative, renewable, and sustainable development research and implementation than on fossil fuels.
    And when Donald Trump says to the world, “Well, we’re going to negotiate a better deal,” I mean, you know, he’s going to go out and find a better deal? I mean, that’s like O.J. Simpson saying he’s going to go out and find the real killer. Everybody knows he isn’t going to do that because he doesn’t believe in it…

    CHUCK TODD: But you also said this decision was, quote, a decision acted with stupidity, and self-destructiveness, and ignorance.
    And the reason I highlight those words is that many people in red America hear that and they think, “Jeez, they think I’m stupid.” Do you think the messaging needs to change in how you talk about this and how you create a sense of urgency with this chunk of America that isn’t listening to you?
    FMR. SEC. OF STATE JOHN KERRY: Yes. No question about it…
    ***The biggest market in the world in the future is going to be trillions of dollars spent in the sector of energy…

    (READ ON TO SEE HOW CHUCK TODD TREATS SCOTT PRUITT, AND HOW TODD COMPLETELY IGNORES PRUITT’S REMARKS ABOUT BASELOAD ENERGY)
    http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meet-press-june-4-2017-n768046

    more to come on Yale Skull & Bonesman, John Kerry’s claim that the majority of Americans support action on climate change and staying in Paris.

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    • #
      pat

      FakeNewsMSM is quoting two sets of figures. the most current is:

      May 2017: Gallup: Most Important Problem
      What do you think is the most important problem facing the country today?
      Environment/pollution:
      May 2017: 2%
      http://www.gallup.com/poll/1675/most-important-problem.aspx

      note: Gallup’s figure at above link is 2% for January & February 2017 as well, with a high of 4% for April 2017.

      yesterday the following was headlined “The one word answer to why Trump canceled the Paris accord: Russia”, but is now:

      3 Jun: Sacramento Bee: Trump hits campaign theme in Paris exit as legislative agenda stalls
      By Franco Ordoñez
      The latest Gallup survey shows that only 2 percent of Americans cited the environment or pollution as the most important problem facing the country today, while more than 20 percent named economic issues…
      There are risks for Trump. A ***recent Yale University poll found that nearly 70 percent of Americans, including almost half of Trump voters, supported the U.S. sticking with the Paris agreement.

      1 Jun: NYT: Peter Baker: In Rejecting Popular Paris Accord, Trump Bets on His Base
      WASHINGTON — By a ratio of more than five to one, Americans in one recent poll said the United States should participate in the Paris climate change agreement that President Trump pulled out of on Thursday. Even a majority of Republicans agreed…
      The same poll showing large majorities supporting Paris, conducted this month by Yale University’s climate change program…
      The latest Gallup survey shows that only 2 percent of Americans listed the environment or pollution as the most important problem facing the country today, while 21 percent cited economic issues…

      31 May: The Atlantic: Robinson Meyer: Most Americans Support Staying in the Paris Agreement
      It’s not nearly as polarized as other climate issues
      Seven out of 10 Americans support remaining in the agreement, according to a national poll conducted by the Yale Program on Climate Communication after the election…
      Slightly less than half of self-identified Trump voters also want to remain in the accord, according to the Yale poll…
      ***This support is something of a mystery…
      There’s actually one even brighter spot in climate polling: renewable energy. Across many polls, vast majorities of Americans—more than 85 percent—say they support building out wind and solar energy…

      more to come.

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      pat

      the thing is, the “spooky” Yale SURVEY (not poll) is OLD FAKE NEWS, not “recent” as SacBee claimed:

      from cached version:

      13 Dec 2016: E&E News: Erika Bolstad: Voters say U.S. should stay in the Paris accord — survey
      They also want to see the United States stay in the Paris climate agreement, inked by nearly 200 nations last year, according to a survey being released today by the Yale Program on Climate Change Communication and George Mason University’s Center for Climate Change Communication.
      Seven in 10 registered voters say the United States should remain a participant in the international agreement to limit climate change, according to the survey, which polled 1,061 people in the days after the Nov. 8 presidential election. The survey also found that two-thirds of registered voters want the United States to cut its greenhouse gas emissions, regardless of what other countries choose to do…
      “This was not a climate change election,” Leiserowitz said. “Americans do not support and did not vote for the Trump climate agenda as it is coming into shape.”…
      One surprising trend that emerged from the poll: Those surveyed leaned toward a carbon tax on polluting industries and emitters, Leiserowitz said.
      Nearly eight in 10 of those polled say they support either a carbon tax or regulations to curtail greenhouse gas emissions — or a combination of both.
      If Congress were to pass a fossil fuel tax, those polled are also very clear on how they want the money spent, Leiserowitz said. They’d like to see it used to develop renewable sources of energy, like solar and wind…
      The poll has a margin of error of 3 percentage points. All of the respondents are registered voters; they were polled between Nov. 18 and Dec. 1.
      https://www.eenews.net/special_reports/global_climate_debate/stories/1060047091

      it got another run in March and it’s worth trying to read the linked paper, for the methodology!

      1 Mar: Scientific American: Erika Bolstad: Maps Show Where Americans Care about Climate Change
      Seven in 10 registered voters say the United States should remain a participant in the international agreement to limit climate change, according to the survey, which polled 1,061 people in the days after the Nov. 8 presidential election…
      The public opinion estimates are produced using a statistical model based on national survey data gathered between 2008 and 2016 by Yale and George Mason. Those methods were detailed in a 2015 paper ***(LINK) published in Nature Climate Change.
      https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/maps-show-where-americans-care-about-climate-change/

      also worth clicking of the authors’ names below to see how invested in CAGW this mob is.
      btw the link to methods below did not work for me, so it’s best to access it from Scientific American above:

      Yale Climate Opinion Maps – U.S. 2016
      By Jennifer Marlon, Peter Howe, Matto Mildenberger and Anthony Leiserowitz
      (THE HIGHEST PERCENTAGE ON THE PAGE)
      Policy Support
      Fund research into renewable energy sources: 82% agree
      (ALMOST AS UNBELIEVABLE)
      Regulate CO2 as a pollutant: 75% agree
      About the Data
      Public opinion estimates are produced using a statistical model based on national survey data gathered between 2008 and 2016 by the Yale Program on Climate Change Communication and the George Mason Center for Climate Change Communication. The Global Warming’s Six Americas segments are determined using 36 survey items that include questions about climate change beliefs, risk perceptions, behaviors, and policy support. “Metro” areas include both metropolitan and micropolitan areas as defined by the U.S. Census Bureau. For details see methods and Howe, P., Mildenberger, M., Marlon, J.R., and Leiserowitz, A., “Geographic variation in opinions on climate change at state and local scales in the USA,” Nature Climate Change. DOI: 10.1038/nclimate2583. Email climatechange@yale.edu for more information.
      This research and website are funded by the Skoll Global Threats Fund, the Energy Foundation, the 11th Hour Project, the Grantham Foundation for the Protection of the Environment, and the MacArthur Foundation.
      http://climatecommunication.yale.edu/visualizations-data/ycom-us-2016/

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      pat

      WaPo has their own FakeNews poll…with FakeNews ABC America no less:

      1 Jun: WaPo: Amber Phillips: Trump’s decision to leave Paris probably won’t win him any new friends, politically speaking
      According to polls, most Americans disagree with what he just decided. Even Republicans are split about whether they wanted him to stay or leave the Paris deal…
      In fact, to pull one more number from that January ***WASHINGTON POST-ABC NEWS POLL, only 23 percent of Republicans strongly support Trump leaving the world’s premier international climate deal.
      And a ***2015 Gallup poll found that only the most conservative Republicans think climate change won’t affect them in their lifetime…
      It’s on message with his economic populism…

      ***And that might help explain why, when Gallup pollsters called Americans in May and asked them to name the most important problem facing the country today, just 2 percent said the environment and/or pollution…

      We know from disaster studies that people look at one particular event and it raises their consciousness, at least for a little while,” said Laura Hatcher, a political and climate scientist at Southeast Missouri State University…

      Combine this high-profile (if mostly symbolic) decision to leave the Paris agreement with a devastating flood or hurricane that captures the nation’s attention right before the 2018 elections, with successful Democratic messaging, and Trump could be setting himself up for a situation he can’t back out of.
      “All he needs is one negative climate event close to the midterm election,” Hatcher said, “and he will have cost himself politically.”
      https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/06/01/trumps-decision-to-leave-paris-probably-wont-win-him-any-new-friends-politically-speaking/?utm_term=.bcc10849e5a8

      and HuffPo claims they have a poll too, with YouGov no less:

      3 Jun: HuffPo: Most Americans Wanted The U.S. To Stay In The Paris Agreement. Will It Matter In 2020?
      And more of the latest polling news.
      by Ariel Edwards-Levy & Grace Sparks
      Sixty-one percent of Americans wanted the U.S. to stay in the Paris accord, according to a HuffPost/YouGov survey taken before Trump’s decision was announced, and just 17 percent wanted the U.S. to withdraw…

      A majority of the public, 58 percent, also wanted the nation to take a global leadership role in trying to prevent climate change ― a position that only one-fifth of Americans thought the U.S. was filling, even prior to Trump’s announcement this week…
      Other pollsters have found similar strong support for the Paris Agreement. Researchers at Yale’s Climate Change Communication program calculated that most residents of all 50 states wanted the U.S. to participate…

      Americans have grown increasingly worried about climate change in recent years, although the extent of their concern remains limited. Forty-five percent of Americans now say they worry a great deal about global warming, according to Gallup, up from 32 percent in 2015…
      The U.S. is due to exit the Paris Agreement on Nov. 4, 2020, one day after the next presidential election…

      Environmental groups are hoping that Trump’s decision will become a wedge issue in future elections, although it’s not clear how much influence environmental concerns will have at the ballot box.
      “Trump has just elevated ‘the environment’ as a political issue in 2018 and 2020,” political handicapper Stuart Rothenberg tweeted Thursday. “And that definitely is not to his or the GOP’s advantage.”…

      But while many Americans disagree with Trump on environmental issues, the topic isn’t necessarily at the forefront of their minds. In a recent HuffPost/YouGov poll, just 14 percent picked the environment as one of their top issues, placing it ahead of foreign policy but far behind topics like health care, the economy and immigration. A open-ended survey that simply asked Americans to name the country’s most important problem found even less concern, with just 2 percent volunteering “the environment” or “pollution.”(DOESN’T NAME GALLUP, LINKS TO WAPO’S AMBER PHILLIPS ARTICLE WHICH MENTIONS IT, & YALE OF COURSE INSTEAD)…

      REPUBLICANS FEEL DIFFERENTLY ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE THAN ALMOST EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD ― Christopher Ingraham: “[I]n 2015 the Pew Research Center polled 40 of the world’s countries on six different continents, asking people who lived there what they thought about climate change.

      About 45 percent of Americans told the pollsters they thought global climate change was a ‘very serious’ problem. That share’s not to far away from the global median of 54 percent across all 54 countries surveyed. But look what happens when you break out American Democrats and Republicans separately. Democrats, of course, are much more likely to be concerned about climate change: 68 percent say it’s a very serious problem, in line with numbers from developing nations where people tend to be more worried about these things. But only 20 percent of Republicans say it’s very serious.

      If American Republicans were a country, they’d be be virtually indistinguishable from people in Poland and China on the question of climate indifference. Put it another way: American Democrats are about 14 percentage points away from the global median on their climate concern. But Republicans are a stunning 34 points away from the center.” [WashPost]…
      http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/paris-climate-agreement-polling_us_5931a15de4b02478cb9b182a

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      pat

      final word on polls. in the UK, we’ll soon know the answer to Nate Silver’s question. poll figures shown are two days old:

      3 Jun: FiveThirtyEight: Nate Silver: Are The U.K. Polls Skewed?
      Bettors expect the polls to underrate Conservatives again. If they underrate Labour instead, Theresa May’s majority is at risk.
      In April, when U.K. Prime Minister Theresa May called for a “snap” general election for June 8, polls showed her Conservatives with an average lead of 17 percentage points over Labour.

      Such a margin would translate to a giant majority for Conservatives: perhaps as many as 400 of the 650 seats in Parliament. (Conservatives currently control 330 seats; 326 are needed for a majority.) After several unpredictable years in U.K. politics — marked by Conservatives unexpectedly winning a majority in the 2015 general election, the successful Brexit referendum, and David Cameron’s decision to resign as prime minister and Conservative leader — such a result promised to provide May with a mandate as she negotiated the terms of the U.K.’s exit from the EU…

      While FiveThirtyEight isn’t attempting to translate votes to seats — that’s a tricky problem and one that we haven’t had much luck with in the past — other people’s models show that if Conservatives were to win by much less than their 2015 margin, their majority would be under threat…
      A series of YouGov models released this week have shown Conservatives winning 308 to 317 seats — short of a 326-seat majority — with a 3- to 4-point win…

      Media coverage hasn’t been quite as much in lockstep as it was for Brexit or Trump, but the implication is usually that the “smart money” is on May winning a more comfortable victory than polls show. (YouGov has been excoriated by some London media outlets for daring to publish its model showing a hung parliament, for instance.) And betting market prices imply a Conservative win by 9 or 10 percentage points rather than their 7-point lead in the polling average…

      Much to their credit, the pollsters are not herding this year; instead they show outcomes that range from a Margaret Thatcher-style Tory landslide to a hung parliament. These differences are not the result of random sampling error alone but instead reflect pronounced methodological and philosophical differences between the polls…

      Focus on the polling average — Conservatives ahead by 7 points — rather than only the polls you like. But assume there’s a wide range of outcomes and that the errors are equally likely to come in either direction. Given the poor historical accuracy of U.K. polls, in fact, the true margin of error on the Labour-Conservative margin is plus or minus 10 points. That would imply that anything from a 17-point Conservative win to a 3-point Labour win is possible…
      https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/are-the-u-k-polls-skewed/

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    pat

    why is The Australian carrying this rubbish about the fake Global Challenges Foundation survey. GCF vice-chairman, Mats Andersson, is former chief executive officer at AP4, one of Europe’s largest pension funds:

    reminder:

    March 2016: Pensions&Investments: CEO of Sweden’s AP4 to resign
    The statement said Mr. (Mats) Andersson has an opportunity to work more actively with the Global Challenges Foundation, which works to raise awareness of the threats to humanity, in particular, climate change. Mr. Andersson said that is attractive because of the work AP4 has done on climate-related issues…

    5 Jun: Australian: Climate change near top of global concerns
    by ***Laurie Goering, Thomson Reuters Foundation
    Nearly nine in 10 people say they are ready to make changes to their standard of living if it would prevent future climate catastrophe, according to a survey on global threats.
    The survey of more than 8,000 people in eight countries – the United States, China, India, Britain, Australia, Brazil, South Africa and Germany – found 84 per cent of people now consider climate change a “global catastrophic risk”….

    On climate and environmental issues, “there’s certainly a huge gap between what people expect from politicians and what politicians are doing. It’s stunning,” said ***Mats Andersson, vice chairman of the Stockholm-based foundation…

    The survey also found 85 per cent of people think the United Nations needs reforms to be better equipped to address global threats.
    About 70 per cent of those surveyed said they think it may be time to create a new global organisation – with power to enforce its decisions – specifically designed to deal with a wide range of global risks.
    Nearly 60 per cent said they would be prepared to have their country give up some level of sovereignty to make that happen…

    The survey was conducted before US president Donald Trump pulled the US out of the 2015 Paris Agreement on climate change, aimed at keeping global temperature increases to relatively safe levels…
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/latest-news/climate-change-near-top-of-global-concerns/news-story/8896975c1177018ac8a92cfd2faca4ac

    ***Mats Andersson & Laurie Goering at the same globalist Chatham House event last November.
    at 45mins in, Laurie is the first audience member chosen to ask the panel a question. i was at COP(22), she says, and it was tough watching when Trump was elected on the second day. how do we build political resilience blah blah? everyone answers (approx. 9 minutes).

    forget about this being about “RISKS” PLURAL. it’s almost entirely about CAGW & very boring:

    AUDIO: 1hr13ins: Nov 2016: Chatham House: How Should Global Catastrophic Risks be Managed?
    This event discussed innovative ways in which the international community might tackle catastrophic risks to civilisation such as climate change, food & water security, nuclear war, bio-terrorism, disease, epidemic and antimicrobial resistance.
    Mats Andersson, Vice Chairman, Global Challenges Foundation
    Rob Bailey, Research Director, Energy, Environment and Resources, Chatham House
    Thomas Hale, Associate Professor, Global Public Policy, Blavatnik School of Government, University of Oxford …ETC
    https://www.chathamhouse.org/file/how-should-global-catastrophic-risks-be-managed

    29 May: RenewEconomy: David Spratt: Australians say climate change is catastrophic risk, even as government turns blind eye
    Three in four Australians understand that climate warming poses a “catastrophic risk,” even as the Australian government turns a blind eye. That was the clear result from a new survey for the Global Challenges Forum (GCF), and the publications of its 2017 Global Catastrophic Risk report…
    The dissonance between what Australian’s understand and what government is doing is remarkable. Australia is failing in its responsibility to safeguard its people and protect their way of life…
    Australia’s biggest corporations are no better. The S&P/ASX All Australian 50 has the “highest embedded carbon” of any group in the S&P Global 1200, according to the S&P Dow Jones Carbon Scorecard report, which assesses global companies’ carbon footprint, fossil fuel reserve emissions, coal revenue exposure, energy transition and green-brown revenue strain (Investor Daily 2017)…

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      pat

      ***here is Mats Andersson at an event, also attended by Peter Curtis, AustralianSuper:

      Sept 2016: PDF: 5 pages: Allianz-Oxford Pensions Conference
      Invitation: …The Paris Agreement 2015 was a political breakthrough in combating climate change. Its implementation could turn climate change into a tangible investment risk factor. We intend to explore the concept of systemic climate risk and critically discuss implementation strategies…
      Agenda 29 Sept:
      Session 2: Systemic Climate Risk for Investors
      Session Chair: Steffen Hoerter, Allianz Global Investors
      Speakers: The Economics of Climate Change in the Aftermath of the Paris Accord, Cameron Hepburn, Smith School of Enterprise and the Environment
      The Changing Climate of Legal Duties: James K. Thornton, Client Earth
      Commentator: ***Mats Andersson, Global Challenges Foundation
      Agenda 30 Sept:
      Session 3: New Models of Pension Fund Governance
      Speaker include:
      ***Managing the Governance Model in Rapidly Changing Environment: Peter Curtis, ***AustralianSuper
      Sponsorship:
      The Allianz-Oxford Pensions Conference is co-sponsored by Allianz Global Investors and the University of Oxford, Smith School of Enterprise and the Environment, a member of the School of Geography and the Environment…
      http://www.geog.ox.ac.uk/events/160929/Invitation_Allianz-Oxford_Pensions_Conference_2016.pdf

      who would believe a word of this, much less pubish it? oh yes, FakeNewsMSM. just morePR for the G7 meeting:

      25 May: The Week UK: Is a world government the answer to global issues?
      Eighty-eight per cent of respondents said they would be prepared to make changes that would affect their living standards to prevent catastrophic climate change in the future.
      In the UK, 80 per cent of those surveyed ranked climate change as the greatest threat to the planet…
      Support for a world government was highest in India (84 per cent), followed by China (78 per cent) and South Africa (76 per cent), but the idea was popular across the board. US support was 67 per cent while Germany had the lowest figure at 62 per cent.
      Ahead of Friday’s G7 summit in Italy, Global Challenges Foundation vice chairman Mats Andersson urged nations to work together to address people’s fears…

      madness:

      5 Jun: SkyNews: with AAP: Aust to show leadership on climate: Bishop
      Foreign Minister Julie Bishop flagged the move at a gala dinner for the inaugural EU-Australia Leadership Forum in Sydney on Sunday night.
      ‘I see another leadership role for the Australia-EU partnership and that is in the implementation of the Paris agreement on climate change,’ Ms Bishop said…

      However Shadow Environment Minister Mark Butler has told Sky News it’s not clear whether the Coalition backbench will allow the government to stay in the accord.
      ‘Already you have seen Eric Abetz , Craig Kelly, who is not just any backbencher, he’s the chair of the policy committee that covers climate change for the coalition.’
      ‘They’re obviously starting to mobilise a bit, but the prime minister and the minister have said it’s their intention is to stay in the Paris Climate Change Agreement.’
      ‘It’s a matter of whether their backbench allows them to do it.’
      http://www.skynews.com.au/news/politics/federal/2017/06/05/aust-eu-to-show-leadership-on-climate-change.html

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    toorightmate

    Putin’s response to Trump exiting the Paris “Agreement” — “Don’t worry. Be happy.

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    pat

    “cheap symbolism”:

    2 Jun: NY Post: ‘Eco-friendly’ de Blasio won’t give up SUV rides to gym
    By Rich Calder
    Mayor de Blasio says all New Yorkers must change their lifestyle to curb carbon emissions — well, all except one man: Mayor de Blasio.
    Hizzoner portrayed himself as an eco champion on Friday, announcing plans to ban plastic bags and beef up enforcement against idling vehicles, and called on all his constituents to alter their habits in light of President Trump’s withdrawal the Paris climate accord.

    “Everyone in our own life needs to change our habits to start protecting the Earth,” he said in his weekly appearance on WNYC radio.
    But when asked to explain why he needs a motorcade of gas-guzzling SUVs to take him from Gracie Mansion to Park Slope, Brooklyn, just to exercise at a YMCA, he didn’t have an answer — and declined to give up the habit.
    “The issue is not cheap symbolism,” he said testily…

    De Blasio defended his rides by noting that his SUV is a “fuel-efficient” hybrid.
    “I wish my life was like everyone else’s, but it’s not, for obvious reasons. But again, the issue is not cheap symbolism here. The issue is, Are we going to take action? Are we going to change the way things are done?” he said…

    The mayor is ferried to the Y by two SUVs — a regular GMC Yukon XL, which burns 16 mpg in the city, and a Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid, which is only slightly more fuel efficient at 20 mpg.
    http://nypost.com/2017/06/02/de-blasio-claims-hes-a-champion-of-the-environment/

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    pat

    read all:

    1 Jun: The Federalist: Sean Davis: Washington Post’s Fake Conservative Blogger Hated The Paris Deal…Until Trump Agreed With Her
    Washington Post blogger Jennifer Rubin used to hate the Paris climate deal. Then Trump agreed with her. Now she loves it. What changed?
    https://thefederalist.com/2017/06/01/washington-posts-fake-conservative-blogger-hated-the-paris-deal-until-trump-opposed-it/

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    Bob Peel

    I’ve been monitoring the contribution of wind to the SE-Oz grid, (to balance the teeth-gnashing over the US Paris Exit). There’s a persistent blocking high centred over South Australia and meaningful wind has been absent Australia-wide for the entire three days since I started watching. The forecast is for no wind for the next seven days.
    I wonder if anyone is factoring these fully-expected, seasonal, long-persisting calms when calculating the required reserve/storage to?
    Cheers
    http://www.bom.gov.au/australia/charts/viewer/index.shtml?type=windarrow&level=10m&tz=AEDT&area=Au&model=CG&chartSubmit=Refresh+View

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      Bobl

      Yes they do, this is why utilities factor wind at 1% of nameplate. That is, for every 100 MW of wind, 1 MW of fossil power could be shut down.

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      James

      I like to go to the King Island Electric live date. The diesel generator is almost always running. If you cannot make unreliables work in King Island, which is in the Windy Bass Strait, I cannot see how you will make them work anywhere else!

      http://www.kingislandrenewableenergy.com.au/

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    Will Janoschka

    “Why on earth would anyone want 72 virgins anyway.
    Personally, I’d rather have one woman who actually knows what she’s doing.”

    Indeed! Most virgins have no concept of what is or ‘may be’. Female monsters like Frau Merkel need be destroyed ‘now’ if not sooner!

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    Greg Cavanagh

    Here is a read for Jo and David, and other interested parties.
    https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15

    This guy was brought to my attention by another friend who knows him personally. Apparently he’s a “He is by trade a statistician and by vocation a philosopher”; and I for one, agree with him on all counts.

    /Cheers

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    Will Janoschka

    Joanne or Mods,
    Are we having FUN yet? :-)

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    Will Janoschka

    “…Is because he has a very powerful bullshit detector. We know this
    thanks to a fascinating and unwittingly revelatory article in the German newspaper.”

    Most Trump supporters can also do this to a lesser extent. We sniff rather than ‘believe’, like any ‘Grandma’ anywhere. Sniff then boldly declare
    “thou shalt not feed anyone such”! Not self, not friends\visitors, and especially not precious children! Flush such and perhaps survive without!

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    Will Janoschka

    Da unthreaded always become somehow unthreaded.
    Why pretty lady?

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