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Finkel report: governments should control electricity market to change weather

Tomorrow Chief Scientist Alan Finkel is delivering a report that could potentially split the Liberal Party. Turnbull was tossed out by the party in 2009 because he supported the bank-friendly emissions trading scheme.  Now the debate is back again in a different guise — called a LET scheme (low emissions target), or a CET scheme (Clean Energy Target). Details are scant at the moment. On the plus side, it appears it’s not necessarily a trading scheme (code for banker driver fiat currency) and it’s aimed at “emissions” directly instead of “renewables” (which makes it slightly more direct and gives the market a tiny bit more freedom, except of course, the market can’t choose “Nukes”.). On the downside, it’s still a pointless waste of billions of dollars in a futile attempt to slow storms for our grandchildren.  If it succeeds in reducing emissions, it will reduce airborne plant fertilizer.

Split coming in the Liberal Party again?

Tony Abbott has warned the federal government it would be making a big mistake if it adopted a low emissions target that made it hard to build new, more efficient coal-fired power stations. The former prime minister expressed his “anxiety” around reports concerning chief scientist Alan Finkel’s review of the national energy sector. His worry is that the Finkel report, due to be delivered on Friday, will recommend a scenario whereby renewable energy is at 70 per cent by 2030.

Three years to close your losing business?

There is talk of a new rule to make coal fired stations give three years warning before they give up. How’s that going to work?

The nation’s biggest coal-fired power stations will have to give at least three years notice of any plans to shut down, as part of a strict new rule that seeks to avoid the sudden closure of vital electricity supplies. … will recommend the tough new rules in order to avoid a repeat of closures that have hurt the national electricity market.

Will companies that start losing money want to stick around and spend more to try to fix them, or just give up sooner? Will investors in Australian electricity “price in that risk” and pay less for electricity assets from now on? Perhaps companies will notify the market they are closing, then “see what happens” and not close — we could have the certainty of long standing constant closure orders so that companies retain the right to say at any time –  “It’s over, and we gave you three years warning”.

Libs pick up an election losing Labor-type policy, Labor says “that’s OK”

Labor is offering to keep an open mind about the Liberals adopting long Labor policy. How “generous”.

Shorten clears ground for Climate War Talks

The Australian,

The Labor leader has written to Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull to promise the opposition will approach Chief Scientist Alan Finkel’s review recommendations with an open mind, reports AAP.

The answer is always a scheme that costs us money and makes an unmeasurable difference to the climate:

Australia’s chief scientist, Alan Finkel, will hand down his long-awaited energy reform report to the Council of Australian Governments tomorrow, which is likely to favour a low emissions target scheme (LET).

 Will they repeal all the other schemes, or quadruple-up the complexity?

The two major parties are closer than ever to agreeing on the LET, with Bill Shorten this week writing to the Prime Minister conceding that he would be willing to accept a LET, despite advocating for a tougher emissions intensity scheme (EIS).

Mr Butler said he hoped Mr Shorten’s “olive branch” would mark the end of the political dispute over climate change.

What “olive branch”? It looks like the Libs adopting a policy that helped the Labor Party lose the last two elections:

“We’ve heard very clearly from the business community that they’re concerned about the energy crisis emerging,” Mr Butler told ABC’s RN program this morning.

The energy crisis is the creation of crazy regulation to use power sources to change the climate. The answer is the free market.

“Expert after expert is telling us that there is a lack of certainty around energy policy so we have to do all we can to sit down and resolve that with the government”.

The “lack of certainty” is solved if the government gets out of the energy market, not by playing more politics with it.

The fakery includes describing what voters rejected, as “the centre”:

According to Mr Butler, the party’s offer to move to centre on climate change would come with conditions.

Studies show just over half the Australian population is skeptical that mankind can control the weather by changing lightglobes and putting up windmills. Australians want to ‘save the planet’ but they don’t want to pay much for it, and 80% don’t donate to it either.

This could split the Libs:

Former prime minister Tony Abbott has proved a staunch opponent of an LET, warning yesterday that the policy would eliminate high-efficiency coal-fired power stations.

“The Liberal Party has to be the party of cheap power, let Labor be the party of expensive power,” he told 2GB radio yesterday.

Repeat after me. Wholesale coal fired electricity is 3 to 4c a KWhr. Why is it illegal for coal fired power to be sold in a free market to Australians who want it?

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Finkel report: governments should control electricity market to change weather, 9.6 out of 10 based on 119 ratings

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287 comments to Finkel report: governments should control electricity market to change weather

  • #
    Hivemind

    Governments can control the weather? King Canute, anyone?

    And yet these dodos are going to turn the entire country poor trying. We only produce 1.4% of the CO2 humans produce. Humans only produce 5% of the total CO2 that goes into the atmosphere. Our net impact is two thirds of one quarter of nothing.

    We need to tell these rent seekers to go away and stop lying to us.

    541

    • #
      el gordo

      If Cory has nothing to say on climate change then I’ll be voting ‘informally’ yet again.

      270

      • #
        John Westman

        My sentiments too, el gordo.

        Unless Senator Cory steps up and repudiates the climate con, I will, as in other recent elections be voting informally.

        I subscribe to Cory’s weekly newsletter and have often been asked about joining his party. But I am not in a hurry after seeing the selling out of the working people of this country to green ideology, by the coalition.

        The coalition has done itself and this country much harm. We need to be rid of Turnbull and his claque.

        270

      • #
        cohenite

        Vote for Malcolm Roberts.

        40

    • #
      Geoff Croker

      Engie must have known about this proposed three year requirement, preferring to sell off and shut down before it becomes a regulation.

      This will affect their Loy Yang B sale.

      No buyers means it will shut.

      150

    • #
      Angry

      The emperor has no clothes !

      71

  • #

    I just looked at the register of Professional Engineers Qld and Finkel is not registered. If he is advising Queenslanders about the generation of electricity, which would be an engineering service then he would be in breach of the PE Act which would be a criminal offense. I suggest that he also is not component to give advice. That would also be an offense if he was registered.
    Let us hope no one takes Finkel’s report seriously. The last three appointments of cheif scientist (which should be chief engineer as in the past in the states or at least chief technologist) have been hopeless but that is what results from the political appointment of socialists.

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    • #
      OriginalSteve

      Hey, the IPCC is a political organization that drives world govts to change laws to knowingly promote a massive [redacted]. This is called [redacted], so if youre in with the Establishment “in crowd” any lunacy is just fine as “…they were just following orders….”
      [Just changing a letter into a typographical symbol does not change its intent, and it is the intent that exposes this site, i.e. Jo, to the risk of litigation. Please do not do this again.] Fly

      120

    • #
      Analitik

      Finkel has engineering training (his doctorate is in electrical engineering) but he has never been a practising engineer. The professional engineering societies should regard his report as a joke but sadly, they seem to be infiltrated by green thought to the same extent as the Liberal/National coalition.

      460

      • #
        David Maddison

        He might have done his PhD in an electrical engineering department but that doesn’t make him an engineer.

        190

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        Thats maybe why he misses the point on thermo and believes in AGW. Theres many ‘professors’ that believe it, many have either not done their homework on the real data, OR have paid govt grants to look after so keep their mouths shut, or just blindly follow hoping their reputation will stay intact.

        100

        • #
          Ted O'Brien.

          So many of them just put their trust in the “specialists”. That is how even professors hide from their own ignorance.

          This might be OK if the specialists were properly educated. But in our modern dumbed down academies they are not.

          00

    • #
      Curious George

      Finkel founded Axon Instruments, a manufacturer of Taser. Now offering a free camera for every US officer, not yet a free Taser.

      71

  • #
    Mark D.

    Wholesale coal fired electricity is 3 to 4c a KWhr. Why is it illegal for coal fired power to be sold in a free market to Australians who want it?

    Exactly right! Any politician that can’t answer that, won’t answer that or answers: “we need to save _________ because of _______” should be voted out.

    441

    • #
      yarpos

      Answer is simple in their minds , so its a waste of time.

      CO2 = AGW = End of mankind, kiddies and polar bears
      because magic CO2 knob controls everything
      Coal burning = CO2 = Bad! must stop
      Like cigarettes , cant ban it, just place it out of reach
      So really its not illegal, just not available, but its all for your own good.

      Only time it could get awkward is if they further improve coal technology to get under the Finkel hurdle.

      20

      • #
        rapscallion

        Your comment reminds me of a quote by C S Lewis

        “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

        10

  • #
    Lionell Griffith

    The end justifies the means.

    Their clear end is the end of the products of the mind of man and the end of technological civilization. Any lie, any distorted justification, any manipulation of the evidence, and any evasion of reality is a requirement for them. Especially in their current state of panic. The gravy train is coming to a full stop and their power to control events is rapidly vanishing. Hence, they need to do something, anything, to advance their cause, however futile: NOW!

    They will not continue to be as successful as they have been but they intend to do as much damage as possible as they fade from the scene. Give them the climate and social justice they ask for but give it to them alone. Allow them no products of the mind, no civilization, no mercy, no respite from the endless drudgery of living the short and painful life of a prehistoric pre sapiens humanoid. Give them the law of the jungle to the fullest extent possible. They have earned it.

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    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      Lionell, “they” are within reach of their objective, a scorched earth economy on which they expect to construct their new blueprint economic system, which will abolish private enterprise. If the winners of the current argument in the Turnbull government come out on the side of Trump, their scorched earth may not eventuate. If they come out on the Finkel side, then Trump’s job will be so much more difficult to save the free world.

      00

  • #
    RobK

    It’s a shame Dr Finkel saw fit to treat Senator Roberts with contempt at the Senate enquiry. Clearly it was a fait accompli that CO2 is a pollutant. That’s not what you hire a chief scientist for. Instead a scientist is engaged to tackle an engineering issue perturbed by regulatory political issues…..makes sense?

    251

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      The Establishment need yes men as sock puppets for The Cause…..you don’t get a gig unless you are OK with someone’s “hand” up your rear end…..so to speak….that applies to politics and especially the top job.

      250

  • #
    pat

    jo mentions the 3-years’ notice madness for coal-fired power stations. I can’t read The Australian article, but I posted the Brisbane Courier Mail article on Jo’s previous thread.
    ***who is supposed to ensure the workers can find other jobs?

    Coal-fired power station operators will need to give three years’ notice before closure to ensure ongoing electricity reliability ***AND workers can find others jobs
    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/national/bluescope-steel-backs-clean-energy-target-as-political-fight-over-power-heats-up/news-story/f41a04669271fe32155d0a5afb935ecd

    also posted a Qld Chinchilla News article on the previous thread, which includes:

    8 Jun: Chinchilla News: Matthew Newton: Residents left in the dark over solar projects
    As it stands, solar projects proposed outside industrial areas are code assessable under the new Western Downs Planning Scheme, adopted by the Western Downs Regional Council in March.
    This means there is no public notification required – regardless of a development’s size – and residents have no right to appeal once a development application is approved.
    That is something Mr O’Leary said needed to change…

    According to Mayor Paul McVeigh, code assessing development applications for renewable energy facilities is the “best and smoothest pathway” for developers of solar farms and other renewables, and it will encourage development in the region.

    Making it easy for renewable development was essential, he said, because with the Federal Government’s Renewable Energy Target to generate 33,000gigawatt hours of additional renewable energy by 2020, time was of the essence…
    https://www.chinchillanews.com.au/news/residents-left-in-the-dark-over-solar-projects/3187312/

    8 Jun: RenewEconomy: NAB, CEFC extend green loan scheme as farmers flock to solar, efficiency
    By Sophie Vorrath
    A $120 million green loan scheme launched two years ago by NAB and the Clean Energy Finance Corporation has been extended, after its “overwhelming” success in helping Australian businesses – and particularly farmers – invest in renewable energy and energy efficient technologies.

    The CEFC said on Tuesday that it had committed a further $180 million to NAB’s Energy Efficient Bonus program, which it said was making it easier for small to medium businesses around the country to tap energy efficient, renewable energy and low emissions technologies.

    The program, first launched in June 2015, offers NAB customers a 0.7 per cent discount on its standard equipment finance rate for loans for eligible clean energy investments, including solar PV, efficient irrigation and refrigeration systems and processing line improvements. The loans are available for up to 10 years for amounts between $10,000 and $5 million…ETC
    http://reneweconomy.com.au/nab-cefc-extend-green-loan-scheme-farmers-flock-solar-efficiency-65844/

    20

    • #
      Curious George

      “who is supposed to ensure the workers can find other jobs?” Easy. Every job in coal electricity generation will have to be replaced by forty (40) solar jobs.

      101

      • #
        sophocles

        Curious George said:

        Every job in coal electricity generation will have to be replaced by forty (40) solar jobs.

        ,,, which cannot be filled (except by cheap immigrant labour) because there are no people with sufficient and adequate qualifications for them.

        70

      • #
        yarpos

        Are solar jobs like renewable output generally? you only get 30-40% of whats promised and sometimes nothing at all.

        00

  • #
    toorightmate

    Ex Chief Scientist, Penny Sackett, had some pearls of wisdom about the climate.
    The pearls turned out to be plastic beads from a Shanghai market.
    She was so wrong, it shamed the position of Chief Scientist.
    Finkel might just emulate her pathetic performance.
    The last Chief Scientist with a slight amount of sense was Robin Battering Ram ( Batterham – ex CSIRO and Rio).

    223

    • #
      Sceptical Sam

      I’m beyond being surprised at the foolishness of these supposedly intelligent people.

      They’re supposed to be able to think.

      What happened?

      Oh yes, that’s right. I remember now:

      Government Scientist = propagandist of the “science” that government wants to hear.

      Policy driven science and a “name” with no integrity to promote it.

      Frank and fearless died years ago.

      310

      • #
        Rereke Whakaaro

        Intelligent people interpret all of the information at their disposal, by analysing the patterns of relationships, dependencies, causes and effects, etc.

        Thinking people can then assess the relevance of this analysis, to a) decide if there really is a problem, that needs to be solved, and b) decide if any of the analysis can be used to suggest a possible solution.

        Things get interesting when there is “a possible solution”, but the intelligence analysis fails to identify any sort of problem that needs to be addressed.

        The last thread was a case in point. Really neat technology! What can we use it for? :-)

        70

  • #
    pat

    8 Jun: RenewEconomy: Giles Parkinson: Finkel needs to cut through myths about “baseload” power
    Australia’s energy policy has been bogged down by the idea that “baseload” power – from spinning turbines powered by burned fossil fuels – is the only source of cheap, reliable and dependable power.

    This myth, propagated by industry incumbents, conservative ideologues and the just-don’t-knows, is one of several often rolled out in an attempt to demonise the impact of variable renewable energy sources such as wind and solar, and roll back ambitious emissions or renewable energy targets.
    Finkel is likely to try to reset the discussion. He needs to…

    Asked by Labor industry spokesman Kim Carr if his recommendations about the operations of the electricity system would include “base load” power, Finkel responded:
    “I prefer to use the word ‘reliable’, but not because there is something intrinsically wrong with ‘base load’. The challenge is not the kind of power it is but can it be delivered when it is needed and securely?”

    Bluescope Steel’s Paul O’Malley was on Radio National breakfast on Thursday morning arguing that a focus on emissions or renewable energy would amount to all jobs and industry leaving the country. “It’s really easy, if we don’t want jobs in Australia, let’s make emissions reduction a number one priority,” he said.
    O’Malley said this at the same time as apparently embracing the “clean energy target”, that according to modelling commissioned by the Climate Change Authority would bring 70 per cent renewables by 2030, the same as other scenarios such as renewable energy target or government legislation…

    The assumption that coal is the cheapest power source is being propagated by the likes of Tony Abbott…
    Not so, says Finkel. In that Senate estimates hearing he noted: “The actual cost of bringing on new coal in this country per megawatt-hour is projected to be substantially more expensive than the cost of bringing on wind or solar.”
    And this leads to what will be an important argument from Finkel – away from the traditional idea of “base-load” coal to something like the “base-cost renewable concept” concept promoted by Michael Liebriech, from Bloomberg New Energy Finance…

    “Putting super-cheap, “base-cost” renewable power at the heart of the world’s grids in this way will require a revolution in the way the electricity system is regulated,” Liebrich writes…
    And that is the message that Finkel needs to make clear to federal and state policy makers, the energy industry, and the large energy consumers such as Bluescope, BHP and Glencore, all still attached to the notion of baseload coal, and to households.
    Actually, the households get this, having produced a lot of their own electricity with rooftop solar, and now looking to store it. As the CSIRO, the network lobby, and the Australian Energy Market Operator have all pointed out, this will be the basis of the future grid…

    Note: Please read this explainer of a Low Emissions Target by the ANU’s Frank Jotzo (LINK). It is important to note that the benchmark for a LET, say of 600kgCO2/MWh is not necessarily a carbon intensity target. But that target – and the way the scheme is structured – will decide whether it is good policy or not.
    http://reneweconomy.com.au/finkel-needs-to-cut-through-myths-about-baseload-power-76486/

    108

    • #

      8 Jun: RenewEconomy: Giles Parkinson: Finkel needs to cut through myths about “baseload” power
      Australia’s energy policy has been bogged down by the idea that “baseload” power – from spinning turbines powered by burned fossil fuels – is the only source of cheap, reliable and dependable power.

      This myth, propagated by industry incumbents, conservative ideologues and the just-don’t-knows, is one of several often rolled out in an attempt to demonise the impact of variable renewable energy sources such as wind and solar, and roll back ambitious emissions or renewable energy targets.

      Myth?????

      Tell that m0r0n to go and look at this ACTUAL generation Image.

      Go to the second image down, click on MW at the top right of the image.

      Note the lowest point there on that image ….. 18,000MW.

      That’s the lowest it ever gets, ever.

      That’s no myth.

      18,000MW, required ….. ABSOLUTELY.

      That, Mr bl00dy Giles Parkinson is what the Base Load IS.

      That’s no myth, mate.

      Renewables (wind and solar) currently supplying 900MW, around 5% of what is actually required ….. right now.

      Tony.

      821

      • #
        jorgekafkazar

        Liberals are ruled by their own self-will. They simply must have whatever their little selfish mind conceives, and heaven help you if you stand in their way. The recent explosion of Trump-hating in the US demonstrates this perfectly. If facts stand in their way, those, too, must be swept aside as “myth” or “obsolete belief.” Fake news replaces truth. Evil is called good. Deviancy is called normal.

        For many years, I didn’t believe in Satan. Having observed the intensity of the collective insanity of the Left, I’m revisiting that belief.

        272

        • #
          Rod Stuart

          I didn’t believe in Satan. Having observed the intensity of the collective insanity of the Left, I’m revisiting that belief.

          Moi Aussi

          80

          • #
            OriginalSteve

            One thing I have observed is there are generally ( bot not always ) 2 camps in life and consequently in politics:

            - One is the often maligned “religious right wing” view of the world – general religiously inspired conservatism, if you will. Usually dominated in this country by Christianity. Christiniatity has a moral governor, where both the means and the end are both governed. There is also a sense of hope and something to live for with a belief in the Christian God. Its important to note that other religions, and people of no religion, also have moral codes which they adhere to. The common theme is there is some moral governor on behaviour.

            - The other is left wing ends-justifies-the-means with no apparent moral governor, anything is fair game as long as you achieve the required result. Its intersting to note that under Communism, the State is your god and often Atheism is promoted as the official belief system.

            If a side of politics was going to happily harbour Satan and his minions, I’d suggest the Left was it. It doesnt mean left wing people are all inherently bad etc due to their politics, not by a long shot, the problem is that in my experience, the Left generally cant be trusted.

            Its worth noting that Saul Alynski, the writer of “Rules for Radicals”, the community organizer playu book dedicated his book to Satan ( Lucifer ).

            You could discuss this stuff for hours, this is a very brief view, but the basic tenets generally hold true.

            162

            • #
              KinkyKeith

              You make an important point Steve and even though it may take a while, decades on occasion, that moral governor does eventually kick in.

              KK

              50

            • #
              Leonard Lane

              Thank you Original Steve. We all need a moral code through God and our Savior.

              20

          • #
            Rereke Whakaaro

            I didn’t believe in Satan either, until I came face to face with my drill sergeant, in basic military training.

            70

        • #
          Greg Cavanagh

          The bible is interesting to say the least. And if God is real, one would expect to be so.
          I’m going to mangle 2 Timothy in hopes to demonstrate where your frustrations come from.

          3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
          3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
          3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
          3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. (This to me screams of environmentalists, gaia worshipers and spiritual people who evoke the universe as their God).

          3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
          3:9 …for their folly shall be manifest unto all men…
          3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

          30

        • #

          Yep Satan correctly called the Prince of Liars.

          30

      • #
        ivan

        Tony, don’t burst your boiler. Twonks like that have absolutely no idea of the real world. If they have a degree it is in something fluffy like am MBA or Media Studies – anything beyond that is too hard because it includes things like maths and real science.

        150

        • #
          Another Ian

          Ivan

          Isn’t the underlying premise of an MBA that you only need to know about management – you don’t need to know about the subject that you’re supposed to be managing?

          90

          • #
            Graeme No.3

            Yes, I had experience of that. The firm I was with was taken over by a big American Company, which steadily lost most of the customers. I suppose they were better run than the continuous scramble in the past to get stuff to the customers when they wanted it, but somehow those customers didn’t appreciate being told they would get their order in 3 or 4 weeks maybe. That and the continuous pruning of products with low sales which the customer might only need once in a while, so they tended to go to a competitor willing to provide service.
            I got out early but the firm is in mothballs now. Only 180 jobs gone but we can always import can’t we?

            110

          • #
            James

            I thought an MBA is the qualification you need so you can never lose. Take over the running of a company, and then do a good job, and get a huge huge bonus. Take over running of a company and mess it up, then get a six or seven figure payout to leave, and go and mess up another company. Either way you win!

            90

          • #
            Leonard Lane

            James. Thanks. the fallacy that an MBA can run an organization without competency in any of is components has led to innumerable loss of jobs, life, and bankruptcies. This concept just is not true. Leadership without core competency in the most important components of a company or any other organization is doomed to fail.

            30

          • #
            yarpos

            You really think that the CEO of a company should know how to do every job and retain detailed knowledge of all processes. That isnt really what they do.

            00

            • #
              Leonard Lane

              I didn’t mean to say that. If it is an engineering company the CEO should be competent in engineering, if a pharmaceutical company then the CEO should be competent in pharmaceuticals.
              Nope do not expect a CEO to know how to do every job, but I expect a CEO to have core competence in the focus area of the company.
              A person without knowledge of any core areas of a company’s purpose can only depend upon advice from others, he cannot analyze that advice for truth and value, thus, he cannot make the necessary decisions based on no knowledge of what the company is doing.

              10

      • #
        theRealUniverse

        Tony theres nothing like real data to upset the cart. 18GW vs 0.9GW is just a non starter, thats 20x, for any engineer with brains.

        40

        • #
          theRealUniverse

          Just looked at the site wow 40GW in ‘hydrocarbon’ fuel generators, not going to get that from a few solar panels and fake turbines which most arent generating a watt more that half the time or worse. How many acres of windmills and panels makes 40GW!

          30

      • #
        • #
          yarpos

          yeah but, but, all the previous days/weeks energy will be stored in the MK4 Wishful Thinking storage system and will be available to be released and adequate for all known needs. Our maybe the Unicorn Microgrids will negate these concerns because all residences and industry will efficiently share all their stored energy, so no problem as there is always some stored energy somewhere. You people are such worriers.

          00

    • #
      Angry

      Finkel is notging but a COMMUNIST……..

      72

  • #
    RobertR

    Is Australian industry going into a death spiral, shutting down due to a lack of basic competitively priced power, simply because of policies based on a grand hoax in the name of climate change supposedly caused by CO2? The train wreck it appears we are headed for, now seems inevitable due to power shortages, supply unreliability and unit costs through the roof.

    500

    • #
      OriginalSteve

      I will have my popcorn and deck chairs ready when the plebs start tearing down Parliament house seeking vengence upon those who have sols them out. It will come, which is why I think they are security hardening the place….I do not advocate violence of any sort, I just think people will be out for retribution and the pollies may wind up besieged in parliament house for quite a while….

      251

      • #
        Sceptical Sam

        Hmmm, interesting Steve.

        However, I don’t think they are hardening Parliament House security because of that. They are far more worried about their vulnerability from the middle-east oil funded terrorists. There are some 6,000 people working and playing in Parliament House when it’s in session. It’s a prime target – but not for Australians.

        No. The Australian thinking voter (as opposed to the welded-on Lab/Lib/Green ideologues) will achieve the change necessary through the ballot box. The the motivation for that will be the massive increase in the price of power, growing unemployment flowing from the abandonment of Australia as a place to do business, the rapidly increasing national debt, the inability of government to get the deficit under control and the rapidly falling standard of living.

        This is going to end in tears; and in the growth of new, responsive political parties. It’s got a way to go yet. But it is happening. Both the Labor Party and the Liberal party are driving us into the ground. They are as irrelevant as each other. The sooner they are obliterated the better.

        210

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          Sceptical Sam:
          The current lot in Canberra seem to be very hard of hearing or committed to the AGW cause. I wonder about the influence of the top bureaucrats who live in Canberra and are insulated from real life (except the cold weather). Perhaps the thought in Canberra is all these howls are merely attempts by “the deplorables” to influence policy and can be ignored.
          The difference between small and large businesses should also be factored in. Small business has no real voice in Canberra, their response to higher and higher electricity costs will be to shut down, so there could be a sudden surge in unemployment, a shut down in retail spending as people worry about the future, and a spiral downwards in the economy – long before Canberra realises, let alone acts.

          The only point of hope I see is that Turnbull has a one seat majority. Tony Abbott won’t support a move to higher and higher electricity costs; it would be the final straw. So far he has been loyal and done everything he could from within the party, and may not yet be ready to cross the floor, but if he did, so would others. Look then for Labor to ‘support’ the Government.
          We may yet have an election this year as Labor exploit the divisions in the Turnbull Libs. and drive for disaster.

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            Rereke Whakaaro

            Would Labour be any better than the Turnbull lead Libs’?

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            Graeme No.3

            You have misunderstood my poorly set out finish. Since both sides are determined to trash the economy it would be better for it to happen quickly and bring on the depression “we are going to have”. The sooner it happens the sooner we can junk most of our current politicians and the sooner Australia can be on the hard road to recovery.

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              Greebo

              That is precisely my point. The Conservative side of politics needs to be rebooted, as it is currently in an infinite loop freeze. The only real way forward is to purge the caches, ditch the non compliant software, install a new OS and move on. If this means a Shorten or Albanese Prime Ministership then so be it. I would have preferred it to have happened last year, but Red Dan put paid to that.

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              • #
                OriginalSteve

                Trump is the embodiment of dragging conservative politics back to where it should be….

                Politics in Australia has drifted so far to the left, including the Liberals, that pulling the pubs back to where they should be will look like a massive correction, because it will be.

                Or put another way- you can’t get a ciggy paper between liberal and labor…

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                OriginalSteve

                Pubs….should say “libs”…. rotten autocorrect….

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        • #
          Robdel

          So the faster they move to renewables, the swifter the change will come.

          20

    • #
      Wayne Job

      Robert , It is not long before the world starts to cool rapidly, the last time the sun behaved as it is now we had a little ice age. That within itself should bring an end to the biggest scientific scam since phlogiston, the greens and all the hangers on will have their tails between their legs and their heads hanging in shame.

      The last little ice age started abruptly, caught everyone by surprise, this one will be no different, the only chance of it not happening is if the sun changes its mind. Look around coldest start to winter on record in some places and in the northern hemisphere record snow and late snow , not a sign of global warming.

      It behooves me that so many people and our children have been brainwashed into believing a fraud of science, I am in my eighth decade and tho’ I still ride my Harley to see the full roundup of all the lies and BS, and maybe a bit of retribution on those that perpetrated the lies. Cheers.

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        RobertR

        Yes, the real science about climate temperature is that everything is cyclical and has been that way for millions of years and yet life on the planet is still here. Ask any geologists and they will repudiate AGM passionately from the evidence of this that is obvious to them. It will be interesting to see tho, how the climate change scammers will try to use their newfound way of perpetrating “fake news’ in the way they do, to offset the evidence when the cycle takes us into a cold period.

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        Graeme No.3

        Wayne Job:
        I very much douubt that the “the greens and all the hangers on will have their tails between their legs and their heads hanging in shame” because they have no shame and will attempt to bluff their way out. When the evidence of cooling is unmistakeable they will try to claim that it is due to (man made) Climate Change. That rejected they will find other ways of making a nuisance of themselves.
        We are faced with a brain washed clique with little or no knowledge of real science.
        Eye of newt and and toe of frog,
        Wool of bat, and tongue of dog,
        Adder’s fork, and blind-worm’s sting,
        Lizard’s leg, and howlet’s wing,
        sums up their superstition well enough. They aim to remake society and, I think, believe that there can be no adverse effect for them.
        Turnbull and his supporters have embarked on a voyage with only one end; the rise in the cost of electricity will send larger firms offshore with job losses. Small companes will just shut down with more job losses. The public will respond by trying to reduce expenditure but the rising cost of electricity will soak up any savings so retail trading will plunge, with more job losses. By the time this lot isolated in Canberra realise we will be in a full blown depression, which they will try to alieviate by more spending, but plunging tax receipts mean they will have to borrow more, increasing the deficit even further. Eventually the credit rating will be lost and they will have to pay higher interest on the borrowings until they cannot borrow no more. They will respond by “selling of the farm and the mines” until foreigners own what they want and are in charge.
        When the government cannot borrow any more the politicians will grab their retirement benefits and retire overseas to write that IT WASN’T THEIR FAULT. The rest of us will be left to suffer the consequences of their actions. We can take what amusement we can from the screams of those no longer on the public payroll who suddenly find that there isn’t an endless supply of money and that they aren’t indispensible as they thought. In a hundred years or so Australia might recover but that won’t matter to the survivors trying to remain warm in an ice age. Then and only then will these hysterical fools shut up about climate change.

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    Analitik

    I just saw an interview with Andrew Stock in tonight’s The Business on the ABC and it was depressing to hear him promote emissions reduction, renewables as cheap and the grid as being a copper plate distribution system.

    But then why should I expect any better from a member of the Climate Council

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    pat

    7 Jun: RenewEconomy: Press Release: GE and GPG secure wind turbine contract for Crookwell 2 Wind Farm
    GE Renewable Energy (NYSE: GE) today announced an agreement with Global Power Generation Australia (GPG) to supply and install 28 3.4MW 130-metre-rotor wind turbines at one of Australia’s largest renewable developments, the 91 MW Crookwell 2 Wind Farm near Goulburn, NSW. Once operational, the wind farm will produce an excess of 300,000 megawatt-hours during the average year, with zero carbon emissions, an energy supply equivalent to that needed to power 41,600 Canberra homes.

    Due to be completed in September 2018, Crookwell 2 will make a significant contribution to ACT’s commitment to source 100 per cent of its electricity from renewable sources after the ACT Government awarded GPG with a feed-in tariff entitlement to the development. It will be the first wind farm in Australia for Global Power Generation, which is aiming to secure additional long-term offtake agreements for other large renewable projects included in GPG Australia’s pipeline.

    GE is rapidly becoming one of the technology providers of choice for Australian wind developments, and today’s announcement comes after similar agreements on large-scale projects in Silverton, NSW and Ararat, Victoria…

    Local sheep farmer Charlie Prell, whose property Gundowringa will host some of the 28 turbines, says the wind farm is a “game changer” for him and other landowners. “It gives you the financial flexibility to change your stocking rate, to spell pastures, to manage water courses much more sustainably and environmentally because you’ve got the passive income stream and you’re not reliant on the income from the stock, which is totally related to the weather conditions and the pasture conditions.”

    About GPG
    Global Power Generation (GPG), a subsidiary of Gas Natural Fenosa and Kuwait Investment Authority, develops and manages power generation assets with a global focus using technologies in which our experience guarantees success
    http://reneweconomy.com.au/ge-gpg-secure-wind-turbine-contract-crookwell-2-wind-farm-63346/

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    philthegeek

    So, come Finkle, come the massive Malcolm wedgie, delivered by our rightful PM……….Tony daH man!

    Interesting the way things come together.

    Comey in the US, UK election, Finkle, Malcolm and Tony show here. An interesting day in politics tomorrow to be cher to be cher. :)

    And Shorten gets to just sit back, say not unreasonable things, and let the others self harm. Lazy sod doesn’t deserve it wot?? Hasn’t even built any aqueducts……..

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    philthegeek

    Interesting?? reports of high turnout at the UK election so far. Indisputably a good thing to have as hihg a participation rate as possible….but maybe not such a good thing for the Tories. Results starting early morning our time apparently.

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    pat

    8 Jun: ClimateChangeNews: Darryl D’Monte: India’s tumbling solar prices ‘a race to extinction’
    India’s record-breaking solar prices are driven by a distorted market, in thrall to cheap Chinese imports, say analysts
    In May, Acme Solar, a leading Indian solar power company, won the tender for a 200MW project at a solar park in Rajasthan bidding Rs 2.44/kWh (US$0.04), an all-time low. This smashed the previous record of Rs 3.15, set just a month before.
    Government officials point out that the current price of solar is lower than the average price of coal-based power…

    However of late, the pace of new tender announcements and completed auctions has slowed significantly, according to analysts Bridge to India. The bidding for new solar tenders is conducted as a “reverse auction”, where sellers of solar power – rather than buyers – bid the lowest prices, which can’t be raised for 25 years…

    All this means the prices of large-scale solar are being depressed beyond what is sustainable, said Gyanesh Chaudhary, who heads Vikram Solar, India’s largest maker of solar photo voltaic (SPV) panels…

    “This is a race to extinction,” he said. “These bids are unviable. India at one point was a trailblazer at what it was doing. It is one of the top three markets globally in terms of annual generation. It is also giving the world a fright in terms of prices bottoming out.”…

    But Santosh Kamath, partner at consultancy KPMG expressing his personal views, told Climate Home: “If the true cost of manufacture is taken into account, even for Chinese imports, the current bids may not be viable. At present, Chinese panel prices are sold below cost because of the oversupply in the global market…

    If module prices were to reflect true manufacturing costs, said Kamath, the price developers are bidding would need to be Rs 0.50-60 higher for every kilowatt hour…READ ALL
    http://www.climatechangenews.com/2017/06/08/indias-tumbling-solar-prices-race-extinction/

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      sophocles

      Pat said, (quoting Gyanesh Chaudhary, who heads Vikram Solar, India’s largest maker of solar photo voltaic (SPV) panels):

      “This is a race to extinction,” he said. “These bids are unviable. India at one point was a trailblazer at what it was doing. It is one of the top three markets globally in terms of annual generation. It is also giving the world a fright in terms of prices bottoming out.”…

      Uh oh. This looks like one of the pre-crash bubbles seen through history prior to an economic “dislocation” or “readjustment” which we know as “an economic crash.”

      Who remembers the Internet bubble in 1998-1999, and it’s crash in 1999 when credit was backing “Everything Free, and Open Source” for the Internet, and when web companies were being established to give anything and everything away, with no intention of being profitable and openly advertised that way?

      It doesn’t matter where in the world the bubble forms, it only matters if it destroys enough credit. (Note: Credit != capital. It becomes capital as the borrowers pay it back. Yes, it inflates the money supply.) Credit gets around the world almost instantly with our present electronic networks. It used to take 3-6 months when ships were the only transport. It was faster with air liners.

      Credit vanishes when the bubbles it supports burst. There was the Dutch Tulip Mania (18th C), the English and American South Seas Bubble (18th C), the North American Internet bubble (20th C) and many others in between. For the Internet Bubble, the money markets crashed in October 1999. This looks like an “Alternative Generation Bubble” or a “Clean Green Energy Bubble.”

      The Signs, Portents and Omens are starting to align. More and more Economists are singing about “Rock Star Economies” (that’s a major warning!) so it’s time to check the share markets and precious metals … and, to keep the superstitious happy and ensure there is sufficient pseudoscience to give some greater plausibility, it will soon be time to check the chicken entrails.

      I will be watching October 2017 with interest.

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        Rereke Whakaaro

        Nice Summary Thank you.

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        Raven

        Who remembers the Internet bubble in 1998-1999, and it’s crash in 1999 [..] and when web companies were being established to give anything and everything away, with no intention o.f being profitable and openly advertised that way?

        Oh, I remember.
        I had just joined a new company to take advantage of the massive growth foretold by everyone. They were doing Telco / Internet infrastructure.

        The new General Manager boasted to me that he’d just secured a largish parcel of shares in (I think?) Lucent Technologies. They were at ~$180 and he’d snatched them up during the slide at ~$20. He was pleased.
        Less than twelve months later it was all gone and he sold them for ~$1.50 before Lucent disappeared under the waves. Live and learn, I guess.

        The “tech wreck” was much larger than the “dot com” bust.

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          sophocles

          Raven said:

          The “tech wreck” was much larger than the “dot com” bust.

          It sure was. It damaged Sun Corporation badly and they never recovered, the 2008 crunch finishing the job, with Oracle Corp buying up the core assets a year later. It blew Digital Equipment Corp apart, which was picked up by Compaq giving them severe indigestion. HP picked up the combined wreckage in 2002, and kept the Compaq name alive until 20013. Sequent Systems (specialists in multi-processing systems and big database storage were bought by IBM, Wang Laboratories were acquired by GenTronics. Packard Bell and NEC were absorbed by Acer.

          That’s a small bit of the Tech Wreck. There’s lot’s more but this is really O/T …

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      el gordo

      China has a monopoly on rare earth and intends taking commercial advantage, the Beijing capitalists have no rival and will use predatory pricing when the opportunity arises.

      “China has such an advantage in scale and pricing,” said Mercom’s Prabhu. “They are now by default the solar manufacturers for the world. If you go to Japan, India or the US, [Chinese products] not only dominate but the market depends on those low prices to make a decent return.”

      Thus India’s solar developers are subject to the whims of the Chinese government’s currency and export decisions, said Sajal Ghosh and Rohit Prasad from the Management Development Institute (MDI) in a recent article on Live Mint.

      “China uses predatory pricing and dumps cheap thin-film solar cells to capture the Indian market in the absence of any anti-dumping duty imposed by India,” the academics said.

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    pat

    a telling tale on the renewables front about Sumant Sinha, whose father is Yashwant Sinha. read all the Wikipedia entry to see how politically connected Sumant is:

    Wikipedia: Yashwant Sinha
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yashwant_Sinha

    5 Jun: Quartz: Devjyot Ghoshal: A former Wall Street banker is building India’s largest clean energy company
    Sumant Sinha is the chairman and CEO of ReNew Power, a Goldman Sachs-backed clean energy startup that he founded in 2011…
    In the last six years, Sinha has driven ReNew Power at breakneck speed, going from zero to 2,300 megawatt of commissioned capacity – more than Kenya’s total power generation capacity back in 2015 – to become India’s largest independent renewable energy producer…

    The success of ReNew Power has been partly built on the bedrock of Sinha’s long experience in the financial sector, allowing the company to raise some $850 million since it started off. At the same time, those large sums of money have been smartly utilised to diversify ReNew Power, which initially only focused on wind power, into solar power…

    Wall Street to windmills
    After IIT, Sinha took the now well-worn route to an Indian Institute of Management and then joined the Tata Group.
    He didn’t stick around too long. In 1991, he was accepted into the School of International and Public Affairs at Columbia University in New York on a full ride. Next, he joined Citibank, and, for the next decade, worked in finance in New York and London…

    In solar, particularly, tariffs have nosedived – 50% over the last year, with a 25% drop in the last three months alone – bringing them to a level where they’re cheaper than coal-powered electricity. At Rs2.44 per kilowatt-hour (kWh), the tariffs are in dangerous territory, Sinha concedes, although his assessment is that the bigger players may be able to take the beating if the projects don’t turn profitable…

    And while there is a risk of smaller players going belly up, for ReNew Power it could be an opportunity, especially as it begins to scout for acquisitions. “We’ll look at M&A (merger and acquisitions) opportunities within and outside India,” Sinha said. “We’ll look at various ways of broadening our funnel for growth.”

    With ReNew Power’s existing capacity ***locked in at the higher tariff rates that they were bid at, the focus is now on picking up projects that make money…READ ALL
    https://qz.com/996337/renew-powers-sumant-sinha-a-former-wall-street-banker-is-building-indias-largest-clean-energy-company/

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  • #
    Ruairi

    The L.E.T. planning is dumb,
    Concocted by skulls that are numb,
    With CO2 banned,
    From greening the land,
    It should not earn a single green thumb.

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  • #
    David Maddison

    Fink has locked Australia into expensive electricity which will destroy the Australian economy, guaranteed.

    He has failed in his duty to examine all evidence underlying the supposition that we need “renewables”.

    He was ideally placed to break the myth of anthropogenic global warming snd failed to do so.

    He can’t say he wasn’t told. I addressed the issue in my submission to his review.

    http://www.environment.gov.au/submissions/nem-review/maddison.pdf

    History will judge him poorly.

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    • #
      GrahamP

      David, Well done, a very well written submission, clear concise and without hyperbole.

      From early reports it appears Dr Finkel has ignored it. However his report has yet to go through the political process so I hope you have sent copies to parties, such as Australian Conservatives, so they are well informed during that process. Graham

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    • #

      That is a thorough and thoughtful submission David, well done! I imagined doing one as well, but I was too lazy, and also resigned, as Sam says at #9.1.1, that it will all unfold badly anyway.

      I buy workshop machines as needed periodically through Grays and other such vulture organisations, the last two years I have seen small manufacturing businesses on the fringes of Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane just dying in droves. Business that have been around for 50 years or more, employing 20 or so tradesman on lathes, mills, small foundry work, etc. Premises sold, most of the machinery goes for scrap even though the week before it was producing as well as ever.

      Chinese and now Indian manufacturing competition has obliterated them, but with 40% power cost increase each year for the last 3 years in NSW (thanks IPART, RET..), the collapse is accelerating. I just wish there was some way that the fools responsible for not safeguarding Australia from this CAGW nonsense would suffer in return for the suffering they caused, but like Keating after giving us 25% interest rates in “the recession we had to have”, they will all just slime off “stage LEFT” and have a happy sunset on the talk show circuit.

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    • #

      David, a great summary, clear, objective and straight to the basic point that man-made CO2, the cornerstone of RE energy strategy, is unable to be proven and almost 100% unlikely. This essay is definitely a keeper which should be widely circulated. I can understand your frustration as your excellent analysis will probably be ignored just like all that similar hard work by Tony from Oz. This intentional refusal to even acknowledge the possibility of another side to the CAGW issue makes one realize that it’s not science that controls the debate. How can this deliberately created log-jam be cleared? Waiting for the next major blackout may be the only answer at this stage.

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  • #
    David Maddison

    I wonder if the timing of the release of the report just before a long weekend was designed to discourage too much scrutiny of its findings?

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    doubtingdave

    JO, THERE IS AN IMPORTANT ELECTION IN THE UK TODAY THAT YOU WOULD HAVE COVERED IN THE PAST , ALSO IN AMERICA , COMEY IS MAKING A STATEMENT IN FRONT OF CONGRESS , YOU WOULD HAVE COVERED THESE THINGS IN THE PAST , HAVE YOU LOST YOUR COURAGE , ARE YOU COPPING OUT

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    • #
      AndyG55

      Jo is actually VERY busy with a local issue at the moment, something to do with closing of a local school, I think.

      Things that directly affect her family should always take first priority.

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    • #
      Rereke Whakaaro

      And she can also discuss the two elections post mortem, if there is anything significant to dive into.

      “Elections are a dish, best served cold”. To misquote somebody or other, more erudite than myself.

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    • #
      yarpos

      If you feel there is an open niche covering international political events for this audience, you should go for it.

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  • #
    James Murphy

    LET = Low Emissions Target, but it should be Liberals Expunge Turnbull
    CET is not Clean Energy Target, it’s Complete Economic Termination

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    Zigmaster

    when you start getting support of the Greens like they did with the bank levy and Labor like is apparent with this energy policy it tells me the Liberals are in huge trouble . Basically the left is now in power already without having to go to an election. The one remaining scintilla of credible difference was the credibility of energy policy and Labors insane adherence to the global warming gods to handcuff our economic growth . With Trumps withdrawal of US from Paris the Libs had an opportunity to turn the screws on the Labor party by emphasising the futility of the Labor party’s renewable energy policies. The Libs have instead are going to destroy their brand and hand the reins over to Labor. Total insanity.

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    • #
      el gordo

      They call it a democracy, but in effect we have a one party pseudo Marxist state.

      The thought of living under a dictatorship doesn’t concern me unduly, certainly it’ll be no worse for me than a Beijing resident.

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      • #
        David Maddison

        Except Beijing residents have cheap electricity, possibly made with Aussie coal.

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        OriginalSteve

        Correct.look back through all my posts here over the years and I have been saying this all the time….

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    manalive

    Gaslighting in homes and streets will be so romantic — and a tourist attraction.

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  • #
    GrahamP

    Despite their best efforts coal may not be beaten into submission yet.

    http://www.thegwpf.com/new-coal-revolution-may-change-everything/

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    doubtingdave

    I have voted labour today , why, because I have a daughter at university and a daughter that is taking A levels that wants to go to UNI , can you blame me for putting my own first

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    • #
      David Maddison

      Surely for the sake of the future of your child you should have voted conservative.

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        Dennis

        Maybe somebody is unaware of what Labour UK and Labor Oz represent.

        Communism, socialism, left side of politics.

        Former UK PM Tony Blair (former Oz PM Rudd too) proud to be a Christian Socialist.

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      CharlesM

      Yes – it is easy to blame you, if that is the reason you voted Labour today. In a few years, when your daughters are qualified, and you are presumably retired, you will be paying for everyone else’s children to go to University. And their healthcare, and their unemployment benefits, and their renewable electricity, and their Council housing, and their subsidised rail fares.

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        doubtingdave

        Charles , I have no problem with that view , I live in a mining village , we lost our pit , we lost our arm services skills when the tories made the armed services part time , above all Thatcher sold the silverwhare when she privatised the services , when I left school I benefited from an Apprenticeship in plumbing and heating , when Thatcher privatised services she ended apprenticeships because private companies could bring in already trained labour from eastern Europe , its about time we voted for what is best for the younger generation is it not

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          Dennis

          Mine union Communists, like our former Labor PM who was born in Wales and after completing university and serving on the students union she established the Socialist Forum as a home for far-left factions.

          When she was being appointed deputy leader of the Labor Party she merged the Socialist Forum with the Australian Fabian Sociaty (socialists).

          The ALP Constitution makes it clear that the party believes in socialism.

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            el gordo

            Its also clear that in 2017 the Coalition will unite with the socialists and create a one party state (in principle only), the illusion of democracy will continue as the masses remain ignorant of what is happening.

            Knowing your aversion to socialism, I think its time we joined forces to humiliate the dictatorship by generating an ‘informal’ revolution.

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            Angry

            There is zero difference between “Socialism” and “Communism”.

            The only thing is the speed at which they occur !

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            yarpos

            Socialism will work next time , just you watch. Notice how little media coverage the debacle that is Venezuela is generating?

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        • #
          doubtingdave

          Unless of course you believe we should disenfranchise our children , for the sake of making a profit out of foreign slave labour

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            Dennis

            According to the Trade Union Royal Commission inquiries and evidence trade union owned labour hire businesses take advantage of foreign workers on 457 Visa and pay them under award wages.

            Minister for Employment (Labor government) Bill Shorten (former AWU senior executive) gave evidence at the TURC, and when he was minister arranged for the Labor government to make 457 Visa easier to obtain by overturning the original conditions applied by the Coalition when in government.

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            • #
              Dennis

              Labor also established the Fair Work Commission and appointed the present Commissioner. Minister for Employment Shorten applied to the Commission to have penalty rates lowered in the interests of fairness to smaller businesses because trade union influenced big business had enterprise bargaining agreements with employee unionists providing for lower penalty rates paid in their normal rate.

              But now Labor blames the Coalition government for lowering penalty rates.

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        • #
          Robert Swan

          doubtingdave:

          If you think the government actually controls your world to that extent, perhaps your moniker should be “believingdave”. Here in NSW we don’t have cheap Polish labour coming in to steal all our blue-collar jobs yet apprenticeships have seen a huge decline in the last 30 years. If your family time machined its way back 30 years would your daughter have been going to uni at all?

          What you’re witnessing is the political equivalent of the climate’s “natural variation”. CO2 doesn’t control the climate. The government might have a little more influence on the economy, but it still doesn’t control it.

          In any case, if you are worried about foreign competition for your daughter’s future career, I’d have thought a hard Brexit would attact your vote — or was she hoping to get a job in Brussels?

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          • #

            When I was doing my apprenticeship 1952 – 1958 my circle of friends, relatives, workmates, scouts and the local footy club, did not include one with either a degree or went to Uni. Higher education for the masses then was either Melbourne or Caulfield Techs. I just had a busted water main repaired by plumbers who charged a mere $150/hr as that apparently is the going rate for plumber tradies.

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          • #
            yarpos

            Dont be so sure , when we did a reno a few years ago it got to the plastering stage and a Transit van full of Russian plasterers pulled. They swarmed the place for a few hours (one English speaking foreman) and were gone.

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    • #
      philthegeek

      Rational DD. Your vote is yours to cast for what reasons seem good to you at the time.

      And the English Tories deserve a goode flogging. :)

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        doubtingdave

        PHIL ITS NOT EASEY FOR ME TO VOTE LABOUR , WHEN THEY WANT TO BAN FRACKING , AND I AM A SCEPTIC that sees the damage that WILL DO TO MY LOCAL COMMNUNITY , A COAL MINING VILLAGE THATS SEEN ITS PIT REPLACED BY A DOZEN WIND TURBINES, WE LOSE PEOPLE EVERY YEAR THAT CHOSE BETWEEN eatng AND HEATING , WHILST WE LEAVE MILLIONS OF TONS OF TOP QUALITY COAL UNDER THE GROUND, BUT REMEMBER THIS , when Thatcher shut down our pits for ideological reasons , we still imported and increased our imports of coal from slave labour nations such as the still communist Poland and even Columbia , meanwhile Thatcher for political reasons was promoting man made climate change , fook um all , the two party system is bankrupt , and in your hearts you all know it

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        • #
          KinkyKeith

          Dave you speak for so many.

          Here in Australia we have a two party system and a choice between Liberal and Labor.

          Both use their incumbencies to feather their nests but the most harmful financially seems to have been laba IMHO.

          I have only ever voted Lib twice in my life and that was to remove do nothing laba incumbents rather than for any goodwill I had towards the Libs.

          I always vote for the independent first and put them in order of best governance after that.

          Currently I would be happy if neither libs or labs had power over science, education and the treasury.

          KK

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            doubtingdave

            Spot on KEITH , I voted UKIP in the last couple of elections , not because of immigration or the EU , but because they promised to rid parliament of the lobbyists and make the party whip illegal , so that MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT WOULD ACTUALLY HAVE TO REPRESENT THEIR CONSTITUANTS THAT VOTED FOR THEM , and at the end of the day that’s the problem that we all have to face in two party democracies like Australia , the UK and the USA

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            Angry

            Currently there is no difference between Coalition and alp in Australia.

            They are BOTH groups of LEFTIST VERMIN TRAITORS !

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          philthegeek

          DD, i dont doubt there is a lot we could disagree on. But…..there seem to be matters we do agree on as well. WE obviously have different political leanings but i think its a good thing to see people like you (and me) be able to put the “tribal” stuff to one side and make rational decisions on something as important as who to vote for, and do it from a broader than 1 hot issue perspective.

          I see the UK system as quite different from OZ. They are first past the post so seems to me that “biggest minority” wins the seat which i dont think is a good way to do it. Its too easy to game that kind of system depending on population distribution. Prefer the preferential system we have here as it puts a bit more responsibility on the voter to think their voting decision through.

          Main thing is though, that people should bloody well get out to vote. What really gets up my nose is people who abdicate their right to vote and then still complain anyway. :) Regardless of how you voted, you did not do that. congrats and respect on this issue.

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            doubtingdave

            THANKS for that Phil , but bare this in mind , I look back into history and see the time of Constantine as the fourth century Emperor that imposed a feudal system upon Europe that lasted a thousand years , and I see global warming as an attempt to create a new totalitarian feudal system , we all need to fight it , if you really care about your kids , see globalism for what it really is

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          Annie

          Dave, I seem to remember that Harold Wilson actually closed down more mines than did Margaret Thatcher, but people have very one-sided memories. I am pretty annoyed that there are really good seams of coal in the UK and our stupid politicians believe that fairy dust, unicorns, intermittent wind and often very absent sun are to be relied upon instead.

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    KinkyKeith

    A great post Jo and a very important one because it involves money and most people like to know who is taking their money.

    It is important because the major issues of the $cheme have all been brought together to public view:

    First, “The Science” says that we are obliged as taxpayers to submit our annual paycheck for docking to save the planet.
    What is the real reason we are being taxed? Follow the money trail, hint Banques?, battery makers? You musk use batteries.

    Second, many have already lost their jobs in the aluminum industry. This appears to be a deliberate shutdown of Australian jobs.
    The only sin committed was that the cheap night time power arrangement helped maintain a non renewable power system by taking up off
    peak slack in general usage.

    Third, political mismanagement of our power supplies to the point where people are more likely to get stuck in a high rise lift than read
    the truth for the outage in the next days newspaper.

    Fourth, Our electricity costs are much higher than those in the USA, at least double. Why is this so? There is a reason and it has to do
    with political manipulation of the voting public as opposed to the engineering imperative of providing cheap, constant electricity.
    We cannot have industry in this country that competes on a world scale when our power is at least twice the cost of the world’s
    largest economy.

    Probably many more issues could be listed but the point is this; at last we have an issue that Australians will be unhappy about, to
    the point that they might be keen to know why their annual power bills are $2,000 instead of that required by the real engineering
    i.e. $600?

    What is so exciting is that the public has got to be given a reason for blackouts. That reason is market manipulation, nominally for altruistic reasons, saving the planet etc when in fact there is an unexplained cost difference of about $11 Billion AUD between production cost and sale price.

    Where does this AUD $11 billion go? UN retirement funds, golden sacks wasted research on a non issue?

    Can some politician please explain.

    At #8 above Pat rings the bell and comments from Tony, Ivan and others are great but I must point to jorge who has the KO punch that we mustn’t forget.

    There is something evil in the air.

    KK

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    philthegeek

    Dont think anyone should get worked up over the exit polls reported from the UK, but looking like the Tories are going to come out of this weaker if they they do form Govt. Will make the Brexit more complicated at the very least, and that means a worse deal for the UK.

    Anyone watch the Comey testimony? Will have to have a look at DLD’s twitter feed. He’ll be annoyed, particulaly at the way he’s been thrown overboard by “fellow” repugs. :)

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  • #
    David Maddison

    If carbon dioxide MUST be sequestered, as pointless and expensive as that is, why not just run exhaust pipes from power stations into the deeper parts of the ocean, that terminate with giant bubblers. It will dissolve and join the 98% of the rest of the CO2 on the planet. No need to seperate nitrogen or other gases at huge energy expense, just dump the entire exhaust stream into the ocean and let nature sort it out.

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    • #
      KinkyKeith

      Brilliant !!!!!

      Problem is it only works to benefit the taxpayer, so it won’t get up.

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    • #
      AndyG55

      Um.. FAR better to dump it all into the atmosphere, where it can be USED and where it is NEEDED.

      184

      • #
        KinkyKeith

        Must agree Andy, that is my first choice.

        In a real world David’s idea combines political reality with just a touch of sarcasm.

        The perfect solution.

        :)

        KK

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    • #
      Angry

      WHY would you even waste taxpayer funds on CRAP like that ?

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    • #
      dadgervais

      Just using Atomic Mass Units (C-12, N-14, O-16) and the atmosphere approx 20% O2, 80% N2: each ton of coal burned would produce about 13 tons of exhaust gas. Need to release it deep, so say put it out at 1000 meters (probably need deeper to prevent it bubbling up to the surface) and you’ld need to pressurize it to more than 1500 psi or the ocean would push it back to you up the pipe. That’s why carbon capture is so expensive (eats 40% of the power generated). All that to solve a non-problem.

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    • #

      Good idea David. It seems to work quite well with stuff like sewage which gets pumped into the ocean and distributed by bubblers via sewage outfalls right along the coast. It works for s–t so why not a colourless, odorless and tasteless gas?

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  • #
    Egor the One

    Yes, here comes ‘thy Foinkel report’, from yet another gloBull warmer appointee by TurnBull !

    And this will be flogged heavily by our ABC(Appeasers Broadcasting Crap) with ,yes, another TurnBull appointee , a leftoid CEO to steer the State’s propaganda outlet for maximum favorable and biased coverage .

    ‘The Foinkel’, already has a spot booked on this monday’s Q&BS……and why? Because they already know that the Foinkel report, will be gloBull warmer friendly.

    Does anybody think that Pontificator T.Jones of Q&BS would have the Foinkel on his propaganda show if this farce of a report and pretend scientist was to give a non-favorable gloBull warmer report?

    In addition, we have Sinodinos, pretend minster for Science, with no science degree and ,yes, an ex Glodman & Sachs banker and gloBull warmer flogger who acts as defending council for the Foinkel and CSIRO chief when being questioned by One Nation Senator Malcolm Roberts .

    Without a big clean out, the LNP coalition of closet lefties, are finished.
    At minimum, TurnBull needs to be shown the door, and helped through it with a boot in the backside, OR the horror of a Carbon Bill, very Shorten on the Truth, led ALP/Greens banana government will become a reality.

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    pat

    9 Jun: Daily Telegraph: SHARRI MARKSON: Chief scientist’s green scheme could save households hundreds
    A gas shortage is forcing up electricity prices to unprecedented levels, but under Alan Finkel’s new Clean Energy Target companies will be encouraged to invest in renewable technology — gas or coal with carbon capture storage — with the cost of investing in these cleaner technologies to be passed onto consumers…

    While clean energy will be rewarded, coal power stations won’t be targeted under the plan. This will shore up supply, help Australia meet global emissions targets and increase the supply of renewable energy and bring down the reliance on ultra-expensive gas…

    The Daily Telegraph understands Dr Finkel’s plan will drive down electricity bills by “hundreds of dollars” by 2030…
    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/chief-scientists-green-scheme-could-save-households-hundreds/news-story/f56f36daf3cb344b64202f6b57e4055e

    so, in 2030, customers will save “hundreds of dollars”, based on what prices by then?

    8 Jun: Border Mail: Esther Han: Families should brace for $660 electricity bill increase
    Energy retailers are expanding their hardship programs, acutely aware their soon-to-be-announced price hikes – speculated to be as much as 30 per cent – could tip more households over the edge…

    Retailers in NSW and South Australia are rumoured to be preparing price hikes of up to 30 per cent, the Australian Financial Review reported…

    Electricity bills are going through the roof across the country, reflecting higher wholesale costs, the closure of large coal-fired power stations, including Hazelwood in Victoria, and growing demand for gas by LNG projects in Queensland, as well as reliability issues with some big generators…
    Based on the average annual electricity bill of $2200 for a household on the Ausgrid network, NSW families could end up paying up to $660 more next financial year…
    St Vincent de Paul’s Gavin Dufty warned families should “hold onto their seats and get ready for a bumpy ride” because, based on wholesale futures, “there doesn’t seem to be much relief for at least 1.5 to 2 years”..
    “Ultimately, this means there will be more disconnections and people will be going without this essential service.”…
    http://www.bordermail.com.au/story/4718542/families-should-brace-for-660-electricity-bill-increase/?cs=7

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    • #
      KinkyKeith

      Quote:

      The Daily Telegraph understands Dr Finkel’s plan will drive down electricity bills by “hundreds of dollars” by 2030…

      And this means that in the thirteen years to 2030, when myself and Dr Finkel will most likely be “gone pinis”, the amount creamed off our excessive electricity bills would be a total of about AUD $143 billion dollars.

      Not to mention lost Australian jobs sent to economies operating under non profit power generation schemes.

      KK

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  • #
    pat

    8 Jun: AFR: Alan Finkel warns that doing nothing is the most expensive option
    by Phillip Coorey & Mark Ludlow
    Dr Finkel will also recommend that the operators of all large power generators, be they coal, gas or even large-scale renewable, must give three years’ notice before closing a facility. This is to avoid a repeat of the rapid announcement and closure of Victoria’s Hazlewood power station by French operator Engie earlier this year which took away one quarter of Victoria’s base-load power and is contributing to the new price hikes on July 1.
    To improve stability of renewable energy, Dr Finkel will recommend new generation investment must have a degree of storage capacity such as batteries, or back-up generation capacity…

    Contrary to some reports, Dr Finkel has not advocated a baseline of 700kg, or 0.7 tonnes, per megawatt hour, but has modelled other baselines as well. It is up to the government to choose the baseline and hence, which technologies to exclude or include. This is where the political battle will intensify.

    A baseline of around 0.7 would enable coal using as yet undeveloped carbon capture and storage technology but the Minerals Council wants at least 0.75 which would enable to construction of high efficiency, low emissions coal-fired power stations, known as HELE.

    With the eastern states plus South Australia bracing for big price rises on July 1, the ACT government was the first to confirm the price hikes, advising of an 18.95 per cent jump in power tariffs and a 17.3 per cent hike in gas prices.

    ActewAGL chief executive Michael Costello admitted the price hikes were “unprecedented” and blamed them on “10 years of uncertainty in national energy policy” which had left investors paralysed.

    An LET would allow existing coal-fired power stations to stay in Australia’s energy mix rather than get squeezed out of the market before their natural life. But Mr Wood (Grattan) said although carbon capture and storage was not commercially viable now, any new mechanism, such as LET, should be open to its inclusion closer to 2030…
    http://www.afr.com/news/politics/finkel-backs-let-warns-doing-nothing-the-most-expensive-option-20170607-gwmv73

    9 Jun: news.com.au: AAP: Take ideology out of climate, energy: PM
    Malcolm Turnbull wants ideology and politics taken out of national energy policy and replaced with a strategy grounded in economics and engineering.
    The focus had to be on a system that delivered affordable, reliable and secure electricity while meeting Australia’s carbon emissions reduction targets, the prime minister said ahead of a meeting of the nation’s leaders in Hobart on Friday…

    “The important objective we have is to take the ideology and politics out of this issue,” Mr Turnbull told reporters.
    “As I have said for a long time now, my approach to energy policy … is grounded in economics and engineering, not in ideology, not in politics, not in partisanship.”
    Host premier Will Hodgman will be pushing for his state to be the “nation’s renewable energy battery”, with a focus on wind farms…

    Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk will underline her state’s commitment to 50 per cent renewable energy by 2030 but will have a state task force examine and roll out the Finkel report recommendations…
    http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/take-ideology-out-of-climate-energy-pm/news-story/c95bbc4051d2aeed05cbbaefd65e34c6

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    • #
      Angry

      Finkel the IMBECILE !

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      • #
        Analitik

        It really is amazing how the “Business as Usual” option has been labelled as more expensive – what does Finkel think the prime objective of business is? If renewable generators were inherently cheaper, the business community would invest in them to lower costs and maximise profit. Competition would then ensure some of the savings wold be passed on to customers, lowering electricity prices.

        His basic lack of understanding/appreciation of capitalism, undistorted by targets and subsidies, is truly pathetic and highlights the theoretical, groupthink bubble which he participates in as Australia’s “Chief Scientist”

        00

  • #
  • #

    It can’t be said enough: Big Green is leading us away from efficient use of our domestic resources of coal and uranium and toward increased dependence on diesel and gas…and thus toward greater involvement in the world’s pipeline and sea lane wars.

    We will of course continue to depend on coal and uranium for fast cash as we continue to waste coal in aging clunkers. But every whirlygig and solar panel means more oil and gas, fuels which ought to be used for other purposes than to prop up the unrenewable renewables industry.

    The connection between Big Green and Big Oil and Big War will be lost on those educated people who harvest their clever opinions nightly from the ABC or The Project. But the connection is real. Nobody can stop us digging premium coal from our own backyard. On the other hand, one day’s blockage of the Strait of Hormuz can send our new “green” economy reeling.

    The modernisation and extension of our coal industry, along with developing every aspect of nuclear energy from mining to waste, are the critical steps we must take toward prosperity and, still more importantly, toward peace.

    Right now there is a new squabble in the Persian Gulf, even involving air space. With the dismantlement of Syria delayed, all that gas and oil still has to come through the one narrow strait between Iran and Oman. Not to mention the Suez region and Red Sea Strait region with Yemen on one side and Somalia on the other. All fun countries run by fun people, right?

    And our leaders think it’s perfectly sensible to leave our superb coal resources in the ground except to send them offshore for cash while we “go green”. It’s like they don’t think or someone else was doing their thinking for them, isn’t it?

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  • #
    Ross

    Where is Malcolm ? He should be appalled at the prospect of this. All the cheap coal fire generated electricity for his EVs will be lost.

    60

    • #
      Malcolm

      I am, especially considering Adani will ship it to India, pay Royalties of only $5 million per year and power tens of millions of electric cars with it.

      (Willard,you are about to lose your comments,if you don’t stop hiding behind another name) CTS

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      • #
        Dennis

        If you truly believe that India will adopt electric cars you have obviously never been to India.

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        • #
          Malcolm

          take that argument up with the Indian government Dennis.

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          • #
            Dennis

            What a strange response.

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          • #
            Dennis

            To be sure, there are questions the government has to address, experts and executives said. Bharat Stage-VI emission norms will come into effect by 2020, requiring heavy investments by automobile companies. Will they be willing to spend this money if the ecosystem is about to get transformed. Also, what happens to oil refineries? A bulk of their output goes to fuel vehicles.

            ABB has supplied electric vehicle charging solutions to car and bus original equipment manufacturers in India ..

            Read more at:
            http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/58351446.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

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            • #
              Dennis

              Interestingly, Chetan Maini, India’s electric car pioneer, has moved onto a new venture after selling his business to Mahindra & Mahindra — giving batteries out on hire. Mahindra is currently the only carmaker with electric vehicles in its portfolio: the Verito and e2o. In an interview to ET on June 27, 2016, M&M chairman Anand Mahindra had said electric cars would be feasible only for public transport.

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              • #

                Interesting comment by Mahindra. If we could get away from the futurist hype and Musk-mania, there is probably a lot more use to be made of electricity in transport, especially public transport. It’s a niche, but a handy one. Of course, like every other aspect of Australia’s economy, this will depend on an energy revolution which restores and modernises coal while implementing nukes.

                Turnbull’s decision to go with hyper-expensive diesel submarines is an indication of how far we have fallen. You don’t get to be that dumb overnight. It takes decades of ABC viewing and schmoozing with crony capitalists before you can make a decision that bad. (He practiced on light bulbs first.)

                When a region is geologically stable and rich in uranium there is only one way to go. To go the other way is like walking into a closed door right next to an open one. Painting the closed door green doesn’t make any difference. It’s a closed door. Go through the open one.

                And that vast belt of Permian black coal along NSW and Qld is a wide open door and an absolute gift. I might say it’s worth killing for…but we don’t have to kill for it. It’s ours. We own it. In peace.

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      • #
        el gordo

        ‘….an electric car fanboy ….’

        Yes he was showered with peanuts and called ‘dillard’, then forced to apologise for calling someone ‘sunshine’.

        Do you have any interest in climate change science?

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  • #
    doubtingdave

    ITS becoming quite clear , as I watch the election results come in that Therese May has made one of the biggest political fook ups of all time , cut and run becomes shite yourself and hope for the best , she will be sacked by next week , Boris JOHNSON anyone

    50

    • #
      sophocles

      Oops. You’re right: a big `fook up’. Instead of gaining seats and consolidating her `reign’ TeeMay went backwards, reducing the Tory majority by losing a dozen seats. About six or seven hours ago, (Kensington had still to report), I saw Tories at 317 (down 12), and Labour at 261 (up 21). SNP at 35 (down 21) and Lib Dems at 12 (up 4).

      Trubble at Mill.

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  • #
    pat

    O/T Dershowitz was exploding heads on various MSM with his analysis yesterday, see second link below:

    8 Jun: Fox News: Alan Dershowitz: Comey confirms that I’m right – and all the Democratic commentators are wrong
    (Alan M. Dershowitz, Felix Frankfurter Professor of Law, Emeritus)
    Comey confirmed that under our Constitution, the president has the authority to direct the FBI to stop investigating any individual. I paraphrase, because the transcript is not yet available: the president can, in theory, decide who to investigate, who to stop investigating, who to prosecute and who not to prosecute. The president is the head of the unified executive branch of government, and the Justice Department and the FBI work under him and he may order them to do what he wishes.

    As a matter of law, Comey is 100 percent correct. As I have long argued, and as Comey confirmed in his written statement, our history shows that many presidents—from Adams to Jefferson, to Lincoln, to Roosevelt, to Kennedy, to Bush 1, and to Obama – have directed the Justice Department with regard to ongoing investigations. The history is clear, the precedents are clear, the constitutional structure is clear, and common sense is clear.

    Yet virtually every Democratic pundit, in their haste to “get” President Trump, has willfully ignored these realities. In doing so they have endangered our civil liberties and constitutional rights…

    I was disappointed to learn that Comey used a Columbia law professor as a go-between to provide information to the media. He should have has the courage to do it himself. Senators must insist that he disclose the name of his go-between so that they can subpoena his memos and perhaps subpoena the professor-friend to provide further information…
    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/06/08/dershowitz-comey-confirms-that-im-right-and-all-democratic-commentators-are-wrong.html

    7 Jun: Fox News: Alan Dershowitz: Comey’s statement fails to deliver the smoking gun Democrats craved
    The president can, as a matter of constitutional law, direct the attorney general, and his subordinate, the Director of the FBI, tell them what to do, whom to prosecute and whom not to prosecute. Indeed, the president has the constitutional authority to stop the investigation of any person by simply pardoning that person…

    Nor is it an obstruction of justice to ask for loyalty from the director of the FBI, who responded “you will get that (‘honest loyalty’) from me.”…
    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/06/07/dershowitz-comeys-statement-fails-to-deliver-smoking-gun-democrats-craved.html

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    • #
      pat

      followup re Comey’s FakeNewsMSM go-between at Columbia:

      VIDEOS: 8 Jun: GatewayPundit: Christina Laila: Who is Comey’s ‘Friend’ Who Leaked the Memo? Here He is on CNN Days Before the 2016 Election
      Daniel C. Richman confirmed to the Washington Examiner that he was Comey’s friend at Columbia. He has been referred to in the New York Times as a “longtime confidant and friend of Mr. Comey’s,” and his bio at Columbia’s website lists him as an “adviser to FBI Director James B. Comey.”
      VIDEO of Daniel Richman talking to CNN’s Anderson Cooper about Hillary Clinton’s email investigation days before the 2016 Presidential election…ETC
      http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/06/comeys-friend-leaked-memo-cnn-days-2016-election-video/

      ***how Columbia Law School is this?

      8 Jun: TheChronicleOfHigherEducation: Columbia U. Professor, Friend of James Comey, Says He’s ‘Welcome to Join Us Next Year’
      By Steve Kolowich and Andy Thomason
      Mr. Richman had previously told The New York Times that Mr. Comey would “be welcomed back” to the university for his next job, and that “he knows it.”
      Contacted by The Chronicle on Thursday morning, Mr. Richman elaborated: “He knows he’s welcome to join us next year. He’s come to my class several times and is a gifted teacher. He’s also deeply thoughtful about criminal-justice and national-security issues and on ethical leadership.”
      Columbia Law School’s Twitter account tweeted during the testimony that its web page was down, presumably as people swarmed Mr. Richman’s bio page…

      ***Since Mr. Comey’s prepared statement to the committee was published, on Wednesday, several observers — including those in academe — have complimented his writing style. The compliments continued on Thursday, when Sen. James Risch, Republican of Idaho, mentioned his own training in legal writing at law school, and speculated that Mr. Comey must have earned an A in that class….
      http://www.chronicle.com/article/Columbia-U-Professor-Friend/240293

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  • #
    pat

    never mind what Emeritus Prof Dershowitz says, Emerita Prof Cohn has moved on to another fake impeachable offense:

    8 Jun: HuffPo: Marjorie Cohn: Trump’s Climate Withdrawal Is An Impeachable Offense
    (Marjorie Cohn is professor emerita at Thomas Jefferson School of Law)
    When President Donald Trump withdrew the United States from the Paris climate agreement, he acted in concert with 22 Republican senators, who collectively receive $10,694,284 in contributions from the coal and oil industries…

    Withdrawing From the Climate Agreement Is a Political Offense
    Trump’s withdrawal from the climate agreement constitutes an impeachable offense.
    The Constitution provides for impeachment of the president when he commits “High Crimes” and misdemeanors. They include, but are not limited to, conduct punishable by the criminal law.

    Timothy Wirth, under secretary of state in the Clinton administration, told The Nation that Trump’s withdrawal from the pact was “a stunning moral abdication of responsibility to future generations.”

    “Injuries Done Immediately to the Society Itself”
    “We’ve watched Arctic sea ice vanish at a record pace and measured the early disintegration of Antarctica’s great ice sheets,” Middlebury College environmental studies professor Bill McKibben wrote in the New York Times. “We’ve been able to record alarming increases in drought and flood and wildfire, and we’ve been able to link them directly to the greenhouse gases we’ve poured into the atmosphere.”…

    A Crime Against Humanity
    Moreover, by withdrawing the United States from the climate accord, Trump has committed a crime against humanity, which also constitutes a High Crime…

    Although the ICC cannot directly prosecute and try climate crimes, the Office of the Prosecutor of the ICC said in a policy paper last year that it would construe crimes against humanity more broadly to include “destruction of the environment” and make prosecution of those crimes a priority…

    The House of Representatives Should Impeach Trump…
    Meanwhile, we must, and will, continue to build the global climate justice movement.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trumps-climate-withdrawal-is-an-impeachable-offense_us_59395721e4b094fa859f1625

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  • #
    pat

    meanwhile, theirABC’s “Big Ideas” this week went from:

    7 Jun: ABC Big Ideas: A tax on meat
    David Simon asks for a meat tax to cover the hidden costs relating to animal suffering, damage to the ENVIRONMENT and healthcare…
    David Simon – lawyer and author of Meatonomics

    to this:

    AUDIO: 8 Jun: ABC Big Ideas: How to talk about science
    Do science communicators have to do a better job in getting their message across? Science provides crucial information – about CLIMATE CHANGE, vaccination or how to understand your place in the world. But often people just tune out. So how can you make science sexy?
    Science and Story: The Semantics of Science presented by BBC World Science Festival Brisbane. 25 March 2017
    Guests
    Ashley Hay – author
    Professor of Philosophy A C Grayling – author and Master of the New College of the Humanities, London
    Nick Payne – British playwright and screenwriter
    Peter Spinks – science-writer and broadcaster
    Chair: Jonathan Webb – head ABC Radio National Science unit
    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/bigideas/how-to-talk-about-science/8551960

    I only heard the second half…all about CAGW, tho somehow communicating science – for all participants – involved a lot of links between CAGW/Brexit/evolution/and Donald Trump. do I detect a pattern here?
    btw, apart from anything else, they all exhibited poor communication skills, tho some bits are very funny.

    Adelaide-born, former BBC science reporter (2004-2016), Jonathan Webb, took 14 months off from his Oxford education in 2011-12, to work at the Science Media Centre in London, according to his LinkedIn page; joined ABC in 2016:

    Wikipedia: Science Media Centre
    Director Fiona Fox is a former member of the Revolutionary Communist Party, a former contributor to its magazine Living Marxism…
    A 2013 article in Nature stated about the SMC, Perhaps the biggest criticism of Fox and the SMC is that they push science too aggressively — acting more as a PR agency than as a source of accurate science information…
    In 2002, The Guardian referred to the SMC as a lobby group…

    about Peter Spinks:

    Peter Spinks
    Acclaimed science-writer and broadcaster Peter Spinks holds a master’s degree in research psychology and has published articles in leading international academic journals. Since 1980, he has broadcast and written for some of the world’s foremost media organisations, including the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC), The Guardian and The Observer newspapers and New Scientist magazine in London.
    Peter has been a Fairfax Media science reporter and columnist since 1996.

    Spinks mentions he’s been writing about “climate change” in Age/SMH for 30 years – he only mentions Fairfax – & says its like preaching to the choir. bemoans that there’s a lot of climate deniers in Australia, who think Fairfax papers are leftwing rags.

    funny how Peter has been around a lot of leftwing “rags”, and i’ve been scouring media for CAGW stories for 9 years, yet I have never come across him! howzat?
    just checked on him and the first piece I found is:

    Apr 2016: SMH: Peter Spinks: Global warming changing tilt of Earth’s spin axis
    For the first time, human activity has caused a shift in the tilt of Earth’s spin axis, which could affect GPS and other satellite measurements.

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    • #
      el gordo

      ‘….human activity has caused a shift in the tilt of Earth’s spin axis ….’

      Its hubris to think humans have the capacity to alter the natural rhythms of Gaia, but talk around the traps suggests that there is an internal variable which goes to the very core of the debate.

      Earth’s core, influenced by the sun’s behaviour, maybe the missing link to the puzzle.

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    • #
      sophocles

      Global warming changing tilt of Earth’s spin axis
      For the first time, human activity has caused a shift in the tilt of Earth’s spin axis, which could affect GPS and other satellite measurements

      At first reading, I was about to dismiss the idea as rubbish. The Earth’s rotational axis is tilted 23.5 degrees from the plane of its orbit around the sun. The angle of the axis of rotation rises and falls between 22.1 degrees and 24.4 in a cycle which averages about 40,000 years. It’s part of the mechanics of a rotating and orbiting body, the nutation which goes `hand in glove’ with the precession of these various axes of rotation. (Centre of rotation and centre of orbit (sun and it’s centre of orbit about the galactic centre)). It’s one of the famous Milankovitch variations.

      But then I found this report. It’s date of publication is 9th April, which is close enough to April 1 to be suspicious so I looked further and found this.

      Assigning the motions described to Climate Change is dodgy at best. How about assigning it to Weather? That’s responsible for the short term changes in precipitation, which cause short variations in water and ice mass distribution.

      Any good mechanical engineer would recognise rotational vibrations from `out of balance’ motion. It’s why washing machines have provision for balancing a spinning wet load, why motor vehicle rotating shafts, axles, propeller shafts and engine crankshafts are all balanced. Our mechanical balancing is never perfect, it works well within acceptable limits. The crankshafts are balanced by the factory to a certain balance factor which is enough to prevent the engine from shaking itself to pieces but doesn’t remove all vibration. A little is useful to tell us the engine is running. The balancing is done to a price: Toyota Corollas are a cheap car and are balanced to a level of vibration which is acceptably low for their price whereas Rolls Royces are much more expensive cars and are balanced much more finely, which is also much more expensive to do and which makes them much smoother. Jet engines require much finer balancing still.

      So poor old earth has some microscopic rotational vibrations as it spins, and why am I not surprised? I note the scientists paid no attention to the mass-cons which affect the surface gravity and probably cause more of the vibration than the water and ice variations. These were discovered very early in the satellite era. Maybe these cause the Chandler Wobbles (found by Carlo Chandler, astronomer, in 1891). The planet is over 4 billion years old, so these micro movements will have been around for that long.

      I’m am amused to consider the effect of a herd argentinasauri at 90 tons each, running north at speed for several days then turning around and running south. Whoo, did the earth move for them? :-)

      But this has poor Mister Spinks all alarmed. He’s going to be shaken off the world, vibrated to death. Oops, that has connotations. And what happens if the planet falls over? He needn’t worry. There’s far more ice at the bottom of the world than at the top and it has a flywheel effect. (I wasn’t entirely pulling your leg, Roy.)

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      el gordo

      I have this gut feeling that its back to the drawing board for me, the magnetic fields might be the biggest driver of climate change.

      https://www.researchgate.net/publication/222817231_Are_there_connections_between_the_Earth's_magnetic_field_and_climate

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    pat

    comment in moderation re theirABC’s Big Ideas program.

    10

  • #
    doubtingdave

    what amuses me most about the election is the blather from the SNP , they say they want independence , but because they are so sold on socialist ideology they actually want to be ruled from Brussels , as if Belgium is part of Scotland , you have to laugh at the absurdity don’t you

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    Dennis

    Competition between electricity providers has resulted in offers of account settlement discounts of over 20% (pay on time), recently Red Energy offered me 12% settlement on top of attractive rates compared to my existing provider.

    Business people would know that 2.5% settlement discount is the normal rate for 30 days payment of account.

    Which highlights the substantial profit margin electricity providers enjoy with the present political games being played, RET subsidies and penalties against fossil fuels.

    And of course consumers are the losers directly and indirectly as the far too high electricity prices trickle down the supply chains.

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    philthegeek

    Wow. Tories in the UK copping a spanking. Looks very much like a hung parliament which will be remarkably unsuited to the Tory “born to rule” mob.

    20

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    David Maddison

    I think Fink’s suggestion to require coal power stations to give three years notice of closure is specifically designed to be the final death blow for coal. This will devalue remaining power stations and make them unsaleable. If the business is losing money (and a coal power station could not lose money but for the RET and other regulations and taxes designed to cripple coal) how can they stay in business for another three years? And what is the penalty if they don’t? And if “renewables” are so wonderful why is any notice needed at all?

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    RAH

    Jo
    Though completely OT I thought your readers might find this interesting from Tony Heller’s blog:
    New Video : Imaginary Climate Change In Australia
    https://realclimatescience.com/2017/06/new-video-imaginary-climate-change-in-australia/#comments

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    ROM

    I wonder if there are ANY liberals or other party politicians and/ or their advisers and staff who bother their tiny brains with items such as looking at and planning for the critical power generation demands of Australia’s near future and who aren’t locked in mentally and politically with the current stupidity of the CO2 climate catastrophe meme and the so called renewable energy claims.

    Claims that in their deliberately misleading manner are close to deliberate f—-d in that renewable energy can supply all of Australia’s power needs into the far future providing of course we Australian’s are prepared to be bankrupted in a decade or so by those same overseas owned renewable energy corporations.

    If the CSIRO was still a genuine scientific research organisation instead of just being a follower and acolyte and copier of somebody else’s politically correct science, they would be all over this Japanese development in coal fired power generation and working feversishly to get a good handle on it for development to enable Australia’s future highly efficient use of our abundant resources of coal for power generation.

    Australia with its immense coal reserves and a now fast developing crisis in power generation availability would be one of the greatest benefactors from the development of this new Japanese coal generation technology.
    And the timing is right for a very advanced coal burning technology replacement as our aging coal fired power generators begin to reach the ends of their economic life in the 2020′s.

    The coal roasting to gas technology described here appears to tick just about every box re fuel efficiencies, costs efficiencies , CO2 emmissions down 40% to satisfy the politically correct scientifically corrupted dangerous CO2 meme and etc.
    ————————
    Via GWPF site; From the Nikkei Asian Review

    Japanese technology squeezes more power out of coal
    .

    New plant touts 30% greater generating efficiency with 30% CO2 reduction
    &
    Extra efficiency
    .
    A 75-meter-tall iron structure on Osakikamijima, an island with a population of less than 8,000 and full of blueberry and tangerine fields in western Japan’s Seto Inland Sea, is a demonstration plant for coal-fired power generation featuring the world’s least environmental load. It was built by Osaki CoolGen, a joint venture equally owned by Electric Power Development, known as J-Power, and Chugoku Electric Power, adopting an integrated coal gasification fuel cell combined cycle, dubbed IGFC, for the first time in the world.

    While there already are coal-fired power generation plants boasting high efficiency, the demonstration plant, which Osaki CoolGen began operating at the end of March, far outpaces the competition.

    The plant “is 30% more efficient in power generation than the most advanced coal-fired power generation plant in Japan and reduces the generation of CO2 by 30%,” Kenji Aiso, president of Osaki CoolGen, said.

    Compared with typical coal-fired power plants in the world, the demonstration plant cuts the emission of CO2 per power output by about 40%.
    .
    Here is how it works.

    For conventional coal-fired power generation, heat from coal burned at a temperature of around 700 C produces steam, which rotates a turbine.

    CoolGen’s plant is totally different as it roasts coal at above 1,300 C while simultaneously blowing oxygen over it in order to convert the solid fuel into a gas.
    The system can drastically cut the discharge of CO2 because it uses gas from the roasted coal to generate power instead of burning the rock.
    &
    The plant also makes use of exhaust heat, generated when power is produced, for power generation. In addition, it has a fuel cell power generation facility that extracts hydrogen from some of the gas and forces a reaction with oxygen to create electricity.

    Using three energy sources — gas, exhaust heat and hydrogen — the plant can maximize some 55% of coal’s energy for power generation, compared with up to 40% for conventional coal-fired power generation stations.
    &
    In addition, a CoolGen plant can use low-quality coal, which is cheaper than standard coal, because it gasifies the fuel.
    &
    The plant is already attracting interest from abroad.
    The small island is busy hosting inspection tours to the plant from coal-producing nations like Poland and Australia and Southeast Asian, African and other countries where demand for energy is soaring.

    ———-
    Now I wonder who in Australia is interested in this new coal powered generation technology?

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    jpm

    14.2
    Pat
    A woman walked into the local butcher and asked the price of beef sausages. $10 per kilo was the response. The woman said that the butcher down the street was charging just $6/kilo. The butcher then responded : why don’t you buy them there then?
    The woman said that that butcher was out at the moment.
    The butcher responded when I don’t have any sausages I sell them for $3/ kilo.
    How much Pat do they charge for solar electricity at night? Do tell us.
    In Australia renewables receive ~$85/MWh REC (a direct subsidy) + the wholesale price at the time. Coal-fired power wholesales for around $40/MWh. No subsidy!
    What subsidies apply in India? They don’t mention that do they?
    John

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    philthegeek

    Tories @ 303 seats. Need ALL 23 undeclared to get 326. Not going to happen. Tory minority Govt. :)

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    pat

    forget the headline.
    what does “THAN” mean? “pay more”, “prices rising”. the dishones FakeNewsMSM does it again:

    9 Jun: Australian: David Crowe: Finkel energy review: households to pay less for electricity
    In a key finding, Dr Finkel concludes that consumers and businesses would pay less for their electricity under the proposed Clean Energy Target ***THAN in “business as usual” with existing rules that are discouraging investment…
    “The CET scenario resulted in lower electricity prices ***THAN the EIS scenario,” the report concludes…

    The report to Mr Turnbull and the state premiers found that both policies were better ***THAN business as usual and that both the CET and the EIS approaches would lead to a shift in the national electricity grid to 42 per cent of power coming from renewable sources by 2030…

    The key finding in the report is that the CET is better for consumers ***THAN an EIS, helping to assuage concerns among Liberals and Nationals MPs who told The Australian that keeping prices low was their priority rather ***THAN debating the structure of a scheme…

    “For the short to medium term the national electricity market is likely to require higher levels of flexible, gas-fired generation to support variable renewable electricity,” it says.
    But the shortages of supply threaten to keep prices rising and hitting consumers and businesses with higher costs…
    (LINK) The Finkel Review can be found here.
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/finkel-energy-review-households-to-pay-less-for-electricity/news-story/7b936400e9f19207fa56184760810313

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    pat

    8 Jun: SanFranciscoChronicle: Yes, it’s happening. California gets snow and rain in June
    By Amy Graff
    In the mountains, snow was falling above 10,000 feet Thursday morning and the snow level will likely rise above 8,000 feet in the afternoon…
    The worst of the weather will arrive this afternoon when a trailing cold front drapes over Northern California…
    Friday through Sunday will be dry and cool with inland highs in the mid-60s to mid-70s (up to 10 degrees below normal) and coastal highs in the 50s to 60s (two to three degrees below normal)…

    8 Jun: SalmonArmObserver British Columbia: Two metres of snow remains on Big White
    Pictures taken today show just how much snow is still left on Big White
    by Kelowna News Staff
    Big White Ski Resort’s summer season is set to kick off June 23 and yet there is still a whole bunch of snow to deal with – 200 centimetres to be exact…
    Higher-than-average snowpack levels combined with weather created a perfect storm this year that has led to mudslides, flooding and record-breaking lake levels…

    7 Jun: UK Telegraph: Lucy Aspden: Watch: Freak snowstorm hits the French Alps – in June
    This follows an unpredictable winter for snowfall in the Alps, with many late-season skiers and snowboarders lucky enough to experience some of the season’s best snow…
    The surprise flurry in Val Thorens comes as some North American resorts remain open following one of the best winter seasons ever in the region. Mammoth Mountain, which was named the snowiest place in the world back in January 2017, announced this week that it will stay open until at least the end of August, with lifts operating until 1pm everyday – welcome news for local skiers and snowboarders who have been enjoying the record-breaking amounts of snow since last November…

    Even though the snow in Val Thorens didn’t stick around for long, there’s still chance to ski or snowboard in Europe throughout the summer on a number of high-altitude snow-sure glaciers.
    A bizarre turn of events for Mother Nature or evidence of ***the impact of climate change in ski resorts – either way, it seems, for some winter is not yet over.

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    Mark M

    Finkel says the energy industry is looking for “certainy” in policy.

    One thing is for certain.

    If they continue closing coal energy, there will be no industry, and taxes and there won’t be any more subsidies for renewables when everyone is unemployed & broke.

    “But if the situation continues for even a year or two, we genuinely face the risk of a significant Australiande-industrialisation.”

    Tesltra power costs up $100m as energy crisis bites industry
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/tesltra-power-costs-up-100m-as-energy-crisis-bites-industry/news-story/ac04b1a9b475c0315d9fe035f8383910 (paywall)

    Who would want to invest in a suicide note?

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  • #
    David Maddison

    Question for Tony or others.

    How close is Australia to losing enough baseload generation to go below the minimum demand of 18,000MW? Will the loss of one more coal power station do it?

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    • #
      Bobl

      It’s a bit more complicated than that, Queensland probably can make up some difference but it’s not practical to transmit substantiate amounts of energy that far. I think one more down in vic and basslink down or Tasmanian water depletion and southern Australia is toast.

      20

  • #
    Konrad

    Can anyone verify that Alex Turnbull made a massive investment in Infigen at a failing share price of $0.20?
    What has this to do with Malcolm Turnbull reversing Tony Abbott’s Big Wind subsidy freeze, signing the Paris Accord and trying to prop up Big Wind with Snowy 2.0 and the Finkel Report?
    This stinks. Bigly! Websites overseas are calling us out! Has Melvin Turnleft really brought us so low?

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    David Maddison

    Fimk said we can look forward to ten percent lower electricity prices over three years?

    That’s it?

    I don’t believe it in any case.

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    • #
      David Maddison

      Correction, he said three decades, not three years.

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    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      G’day David,
      Finkel talks about a $90/year average saving. AGL has just announced an increase of $300/year… I suspect an inconsistency somewhere.
      But I haven’t read his report yet. Should I live in hope?
      Cheers,
      Dave B

      20

  • #
    Rick Will

    Here is a link to the Finkel Report:
    http://www.environment.gov.au/energy/publications/electricity-market-final-report

    Paris rules!

    There is one guaranteed outcome. Electricity prices will go UP!

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    • #
      David Maddison

      My prophecy was correct.

      On page 147 they mention the DRED device as a way of reducing consumer demand.

      Demand Response Enable Device.

      It enables the network operator (or government) to turn off your high power devices such as air cons or pool pumps at times of high demand for cooling and swimming pools, like when it’s, eeerrr, hot.

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      • #
        Bobl

        Dred pronounced dread, is digital and easy to filter

        10

      • #
        Roy Hogue

        They would like me to install one on my A/C compressor. They’ll even give me a rate break if I do.

        It will happen over my dead body, California or not cALIFORNIA. I bought that system to stay cool not politically correct.

        40

      • #
        Yonniestone

        They left out a ‘D’ on the end David, Judge, Jury and Electrocutioner.

        30

        • #
          Roy Hogue

          Have you not heard. Electrocution is no longer allowed in the U.S. Some nonsense about being cruel and unusual punishment. I do wonder though, exactly how do the complainers know what the condemned feels since he never speaks about the experience. Could that be related to global warming somehow?

          Of course, maybe leaving out a D is the key. Only thee’s no D in electric chair.

          But let us speak of better things. I see that Puerto Rico has just voted to become the 51st state of the United states of America. I could not be more angry at that if someone was shooting at me. Puerto Rico has been mismanaged so badly by, of all people, those left leaning experts on everything, that the place is broke and in bankruptcy. So now they expect a bailout that they could not get as simply a territory of the United States.

          Congress can apparently reject their application for statehood but what do you think will actually happen?

          Charity only goes so far, both in electrocution and new states. :-)

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  • #
    pat

    California, Germany (NOT EU) & Communist China and the end of western civilisation:

    8 Jun: Office of Gov Brown, California: Photo Release: China Day 5: Governor Brown Closes California-China Climate Mission with Call to Action: “It’s Not a Time for Inertia, It’s a Time for Radical Change”
    Governor Brown also announced that on the heels of his trip to China, he will meet with ***Germany’s Minister for the Environment, Nature Conservation, Building and Nuclear Safety, Barbara Hendricks, to discuss further bilateral partnership and action on climate change tomorrow in San Francisco…

    The Governor also announced that the state of California and Tsinghua University intend to establish a joint initiative called the U.S.-China Climate Change Institute. The Institute will focus on connecting government leaders, researchers, scientists, technical experts and students in California and China to drive climate solutions and action, particularly at the subnational level…

    Governor Brown’s complete remarks at Tsinghua University are below…
    ***As we all know, modernity is carbon. The development of coal and oil and natural gas has fundamentally provided the basis for our current society, civilization, progress. I didn’t get here on a solar plane. I didn’t get here in a solar car. I got here in an oil plane and an oil car, and that’s what it is. We are deeply embedded and addicted to carbon and to all its various forms. So, to change that is nothing less than profoundly radical.

    The world, through the Paris Accord, has made the commitment to make the turn to a decarbonized future. Good, we’re for that. Now, maybe some people in Washington aren’t so sure about that, but, California is sure. We believe in the Paris Accord and we are going to stick to our commitments. And we’re going to persuade other states and do everything we can to get the whole United States of America fully supporting all the efforts needed to ***decarbonize America’s economy – and, in fact, ***the world’s economy…

    The carbon trading scheme that California has embraced has been shared with some of the provinces here in China, as a pilot test. And now, as we just heard, a national carbon trading scheme is about to be launched in China. That shows that our collaboration has very practical consequences, and that’s all to the good…

    I think at the intellectual level, there is much fruitful collaboration between Tsinghua, the University of California and the State of California…
    The climate is not waiting: The ice is melting; species are going extinct; the habitat is being destroyed; the sea is rising – we don’t have any time to wait. That’s why I’m not going to talk anymore – we’ve got to get going. So, let’s get this dialogue moving, let’s fight climate change. Thank you very much.
    https://www.gov.ca.gov/news.php?id=19834

    8 Jun: EastValleyTimes: Governor Brown opens Under2 Clean Energy Forum, welcomes new Under2 coalition Global Ambassador Christiana Figueres
    CHINA DAY 4
    BEIJING – Calling for further subnational and non-state climate collaboration and action, Governor Edmund G. Brown Jr. today convened dozens of regional and business leaders from around the world in Beijing for the Under2 Clean Energy Forum and welcomed former United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) Change (UNFCCC) Executive Secretary Christiana Figueres as Global Ambassador for the Under2 Coalition.

    “This is a heroic undertaking that you are a part of and I welcome you to the Under2 Coalition,” said Governor Brown in his opening remarks. “Nothing is more difficult, nothing is more important, but by being here we’re saying we’re up to the task. So let’s get to work.”

    “I’m delighted to have been named as Global Ambassador for the Under2 Coalition. It has never been more important for states and regions to work together to help promote clean energy economies and limit global temperature rises,” said Under2 Coalition Global Ambassador Christiana Figueres. “To give us the best chance of staying below 2 degrees of warming, we will need to bend the curve of emissions by 2020, so I look forward to playing an active role in raising awareness of the Coalition’s ambitions.”…

    The coalition now includes 175 jurisdictions on six continents collectively representing more than 35 countries, 1.2 billion people and $28.8 trillion GDP – equivalent to over 16 percent of the global population and over 39 percent of the global economy…

    Also today, two new agreements were announced at an event in Beijing to spur greater clean technology cooperation, innovation and investment between China and California. The first agreement, between the Regents of the University of California and Tsinghua Holdings – a subsidiary of Tsinghua University, one of China’s top colleges – will develop the California-China Clean Technology Funds. The public-private partnership will focus on accelerating investment in low-carbon and clean energy projects, companies, assets and infrastructure…

    The other partnership, signed by the California Energy Commission and Haidian District – home to many of China’s high-tech and startup companies – provides incubator space and market access for California clean energy and technology companies through a new California-Beijing Clean Tech Innovation Center in the Zhongguancun High-Tech Park (Z-Park), among other measures…
    http://eastvalleytimes.com/governor-brown-opens-under2-clean-energy-forum-welcomes-new-under2-coalition-global-ambassador-christiana-figueres/

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    • #
      James Murphy

      I read “Tsinghua”, but thought of “Tsingtao”, and then wondered what a brewery had to do with this. I blame climate change for such a thought process.

      10

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Thus does Jerry Brown prove that he’s a fool — not that the issue was in any serious doubt before this.

      California sees itself as an independent Nation within 20 years or less and since Donald Trump is unlikely to play nice with California nor is his successor, we need someone who will. And who better than an ally that will stab you in the back the instant you become a liability.

      The voters may be wise enough to reject the independence movement but I’m not willing to bet on it at this point. I’m also not going to bet against whomever is president when and if California tries to implement that measure, liking it any more han Lincoln liked the Confederate States. And if I’m right we might just see a couple of armored divisions roll into Sacramento, several more in Los Angeles and maybe an airborne division parachuting into San Francisco because it has too many hills for tanks.

      But don’t discount China’s technology capabilities. They’re damn good. And they learned it from us. And sometimes stole it from us. But they make good stuff, the best in fact.

      I have a Blu-ray player that’s made by OPPO Consumer Electronics, an American company owned by a Chinese company also named OPPO. I’ll bet the technology has a large Chinese contribution although the software credits are largely open source. It is superb but it lacks the richer feature set that I would like to have… little details that make it easier to use. But it’s not your $70 or $80 Costco Blu-ray player. It’s audio/video phile quality all the way. High end stuff.

      00

  • #
    David Maddison

    Ha!

    Part of Fink’s recommendations is “consumer incentives to reduce demand”.

    As if having some of the world’s most expensive electricity in one of the world’s most energy rich countries is not enough incentive.

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    • #
      Geoffrey Williams

      I think this ‘incentive’ business is about ‘smart’ meters.
      Do your ‘dobie’ at midnight!
      When wiil they learn.
      GeoffW

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    • #
      Geoffrey Williams

      I think this ‘incentive’ business is about ‘smart’ meters.
      Do your ‘dobie’ at midnight!
      When wiil they learn.
      GeoffW

      20

  • #
    Geoffrey Williams

    The Finkel Report;
    Green Idiotolgy Prevails.
    So sad for Australia!
    GeoffW

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  • #
    David Maddison

    There are a total of 70 mentions of the words battery or batteries in the report.

    22

  • #
    David Maddison

    Fink has completely devalued the office of Chief Scientist. The complete lack of use of the scientific method in the report has made the position meaningless. It is now just a political position with no scientific value or association whatsoever. It should be renamed the office of Chief Propagandist.

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    Robber

    His report says nothing about restoring affordable electricity that was supposed to be a key part of his brief. Last year wholesale electricity prices were 4 cents/KWhr, this year they are over 10 cents. He seems to be saying that wind without backup is about 10 cents, solar with backup about 14 cents, and new super-critical coal about 8 cents. Bye bye industry. Come back in 2050 when he claims prices will be lower and watch pigs fly.

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  • #
    pat

    7 Jun: Cleveland.com: Kelly Reardon: Lake Erie inches away from hitting record-high water level
    (Kelly Reardon is cleveland.com’s meteorologist)
    PHOTO CAPTION: The Great Lakes’ water levels are surging way above normal.(NASA)
    Lake Erie’s water levels are the highest they’ve been since 1998, and will remain 4 to 9 inches above normal through November.
    The latest reading measured just 7.32 inches below the all-time record high set in 1986. Within the next week, the level could increase to just 6 inches below that record.
    The high water is due to the recent heavy rain and months of snow melt surging into the lake…
    The rest of the Great Lakes are also higher than normal.

    CHART (SHOWS LAKE MICHIGAN-SUPERIOR AND LAKE HURON AT ALL-TIME HISTORICAL RECORD HIGHS)
    As for Lake Ontario, water levels are peaking at the highest point since 1918…
    Lake Superior and Huron aren’t an exception. Current water levels are still topping 7 and 13 inches, respectively, above the long-term June monthly average. Over the next month, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers predicts a further increase of 2 to 3 inches.
    (SOME SCEPTICAL CAGW LAUGHS IN THE COMMENTS)
    http://www.cleveland.com/weather/blog/index.ssf/2017/06/lake_erie_reaches_highest_leve.html

    8 Jun: NewYorkUpstate: David Figura: Water releases affecting Lake Ontario staying same ‘for at least another week’
    The U.S. / Canadian panel that makes decisions on the water level of Lake Ontario and the St. Lawrence River has decided to keep the near-record water releases at the Moses-Saunders Dam in Massena the same “for at least another week.”
    Meanwhile, Frank Bevacqua, a spokesman for the International Commission, estimated it could as many as five weeks for Lake Ontario to drop 10 inches…

    Following its weekly conference call today, the International Lake Ontario -St. Lawrence River Board, which is affiliated with the International Joint Commission, announced it will keep the water releases at 10,200 cubic meters per second – the rate that’s been used since May 23 “to provide relief to residents along the shorelines of Lake Ontario, while not exacerbating the impacts to shoreline residents downstream.”…
    The lake’s level as of of June 6 has only dropped about 3 centimeters from the highest daily level reached May 29, the board said…

    ***The lake’s level as of June 7 was 248.8 feet – 31 inches above its long-term average for this time of year. The lake’s level is the highest it’s been in nearly a century — the result of snow melt and a record-setting precipitation in April…
    http://www.newyorkupstate.com/weather/2017/06/water_releases_affecting_lake_ontario_staying_same_for_at_least_another_week.html

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  • #
    pat

    the latest:

    9 Jun: CitywireUK: May clings to power with DUP deal as gamble backfires
    By Daniel Grote & Gavin Lumsden
    Theresa May has reportedly struck a deal with Northern Ireland’s Democratic Unionist Party to form a government, after her gamble to call snap general election resulted in the Conservatives losing their parliamentary majority.
    The prime minister is expected to see the Queen later today to confirm a deal is in place, according to reports…

    ***Greens won one seat:

    9 Jun: UK Express: Alice Foster: Hung Parliament LIVE updates: DUP in talks with Conservatives – What happens next, latest
    The DUP are backing the Conservatives after the Tories failed to get a majority…
    There is a possibility that Labour, the Liberal Democrats, ***the Green and SNP could unite to form an alliance to keep the Conservatives out of power.
    But the Liberal Democrats last night ruled out a coalition deal with Labour or the Conservatives as Nick Clegg lost his seat to Labour…

    10.45pm: Paul Nuttall has resigned as Ukip leader. Nigel Farage could make a political comeback if Brexit is threatened
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/814981/Hung-Parliament-LIVE-updates-what-happens-next-latest-news-Conservative-Labour-coalition

    following by Breitbart London editor-in-chief and former chief adviser to Nigel Farage, Raheem Kassam:

    9 Jun: Breitbart: Raheem Kassam: The Silver Lining? A Tory-DUP Alliance Will Remind the Tories What Conservatism Is Supposed to Look Like
    The Democrat Unionist Party (DUP) — who the Conservatives will seek a coalition government with — is far closer to conservative philosophy than Britain’s Tories have been for decades.

    WHO ARE THE DUP?
    Formed in 1971 by Dr. Rev. Ian Paisley, now deceased, the party grew out of the Protestant Unionist Party…

    BREXIT
    Now led by mother of three Arlene Foster, the DUP were staunchly pro-Brexit at the UK referendum on membership of the European Union, with some of their activists and leaders joining UKIP leader Nigel Farage on his Brexit tour ahead of the vote…

    CLIMATE CHANGE
    The party’s MPs hold an array of views on climate change, though many believe the DUP to be “climate change sceptics”…
    The former finance minister Sammy Wilson has said: “…we are already paying through the nose for electricity because we go down the route of the dearest electricity possible through renewable energy” and are “putting our agricultural industry in jeopardy because there is no greater producer of greenhouse gases than cows”.
    He has referred to climate change legislation as a “con”…
    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/06/09/secret-blessing-tory-dup-alliance-will-remind-tories-conservatism-supposed-look-like/

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    pat

    ***Greens here should get no more than 2%. if only the public knew what their policies would cost them:

    9 Jun: BBC: Election results
    Former Scottish National Party leader Alex Salmond was also defeated, losing his seat to a Conservative…
    Results so far:
    ***…Greens 2%…
    SNP (Scottish National Party) are predicted to lose 22 seats…
    http://www.bbc.com/news/election-2017-40209282

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    AndyG55

    OT Trump et al playing games.. one way to get things done.. Could electrify it too. :-)

    http://video.foxnews.com/v/5465606372001/?#sp=show-clips

    (after the ads)

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  • #
    Bite Back

    Governments should control electricity to control the weather. Hmm! Dimwits all.

    Isn’t it the other way around? The weather controls electricity.

    The proof: You only get lightening during a certain kind of storm, proof positive that these experts have it backward.

    Otherwise there goes my expensive engineering degree.

    Well the degree was a prize in a box of candy but it was very overpriced candy.

    There is no hope of straight thinking from government, none.

    BB

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    Mark M

    The BoM can’t even predict the weather, much less control it …

    BoM rainfall outlook, June-August. Issued 25 May 2017.

    http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/outlooks/?cid=001tw66#/overview/video/

    2.22sec: “Below average rainfall is likely for most of southern Australia …”

    Sat 10 June, Reality:

    “Heavy rains and thunderstorms are expected to batter much of the NSW coastline with some regions being warned to expect up to 200mm of rain and flash flooding over the long weekend.”

    http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2017/06/10/heavy-rain-across-nsw-for-the-long-weekend.html?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=593afabe04d30117b6e9a722&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter
    . . .

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    David Maddison

    How exactly are prices meant to decrease under the Fink proposal?

    The only way to get cheap electricity is to burn coal or go nuclear and remove the carbon tax.

    I predict prices will continue to increase.

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    David Maddison

    How can the review described as “independent” when Fink was chosen to give the answer the Government wanted – basically more of the same.

    Give us our coal back and build some nukes as well.

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    Robber

    As reported in The Australian:
    “Households stand to gain “hundreds of dollars” in lower energy bills”.

    But please read the details: “A key conclusion is that a clean energy target would lead to lower electricity bills for households over the years to 2030, compared with business as usual or an emissions intensity scheme.”

    So, not lower than today, but lower then they would be if we continued on the crazy RET path.

    That doesn’t meet my definition of “affordable” electricity that was part of Dr Finkel’s brief. Last year wholesale prices were 4 cents/KWhr, this year after Hazelwood closure they are over 10 cents. And then solar/wind generators get paid an additional 8 cents that is added to retail prices. Seems Dr Finkel is saying prices will continue to skyrocket, but not as high as they would otherwise be.

    That is not “bill relief” – a very misleading headline.

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    David Maddison

    Fink’s proposals go against a fundamental engineering principle, to keep things simple.

    In the “renewables” scheme there are multiple inputs and outputs, bidirectional power flows, diversities of generation technologies, the “renewables” components of which (wind and solar) are small scale, fragile, require frequent maintenance and have low longevity; complex metering systems and “demand management” (meaning people can’t get electricity when they want it), complex subsidy flows meaning market forces aren’t able to operate; forcing consumers to buy a fundamentally defective product and many other complexities.

    Proper engineers solved the problems of the production and distribution of power over a century ago. You had large scale centralised power stations running on cheap gas, coal, hydro or later nuclear. You had high voltage distribution for long distances from the producer with lower voltages as you got closer to the consumer. Load balancing was done with pumped hydro. Excess power production was dumped into aluminium production at night. Power was cheap, reliable and production was invisible. From the late 1960′s with smokestack scrubbing the only emissions from thermal power stations were life-giving H2O and CO2. Market forces could send price signals to keep things efficient (if there was not excessive regulation). The system was simple, well understood and reliable.

    The whole system has now being destroyed and Western Civilisation (except America) is going down the gurgler with the lie of anthropogenic global warming

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      Egor the One

      Well said ! We now have major problems because we have imbeciles, lunatics and racketeers in charge.

      It’s that simple .

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    toorightmate

    HERR FINKEL,
    YOU NEED BLOODY GOOD BATTERIES TO RIDE OUT A WEEK OF OVERCAST WEATHER AND/OR CAPACITY FACTORS LESS THAN 10% – YOU JERK.
    WHERE DO THEY BREED THESE SO CALLED SCIENTISTS?

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      Dennis

      He is only doing what his mate, the prime minister, told him to do.

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      yarpos

      Over at reneweconomy they are whining at the complete unreasonableness of the wind/solar generators having to provide the battery buffer (setting aside if its even possible at scale) and provide real power. Someone elses problem apparently.

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    Egor the One

    Australia’s Chief Scientist ‘the Foinkel’…….real translation > TurnBull’s gloBull warmer lackey,and ex Manhattan Investment Group Chairman.

    Sounds suspiciously close to the whole ‘carbon credits scam’, especially when this lackey starts mentioning carbon ‘certificates’ being awarded for varying co2 emissions, with coal being penalized somewhat ……very vague and shifty, to say the least.

    I see a picture forming where some individuals get rich quick, whilst, we the little people, get fleeced via jacked up energy/power bills …….and all to make zero difference to a non-problem !

    Conclusion : TurnBull and his closet lefty cohort, need to be thrown out, along with duds and gloBull warming propagandists and appointees such as ‘the Foinkel’, ABC chairman lefty,Justin(no bias here)Milne, No science degree and ex Goldman and Sachs lackey, minister for science
    Arthur(CAGW)Sinodinos,
    Josh(dropkick)Frydenburg,sell out for a better job as minister for Energy and anti energy…..another of TurnBull’s boobytrapped Ministries for any potential threats to ‘his esteemship’……just to name a few of the born again CAGW floggers and Paris Dud agreement Appeasers.

    There has to be a massive closet lefty clean out at the LNP, or they are finished as a conservative alternative.

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    pat

    READ ALL:

    9 Jun: SanFranciscoChronicle: David R. Baker: California’s greenhouse gas emissions fall by less than 1%
    The state’s emissions in 2015 dropped just 0.3 percent from the prior year, according to data released Wednesday by the California Air Resources Board. The board’s detailed annual greenhouse gas inventories are issued more than a year after the fact.

    While emissions from electrical plants fell in 2015, driven down partly by the rapid growth of large solar facilities, the amount of greenhouse gases spewed by cars and planes rose. That may be due to low fuel prices and an improving economy, both of which typically entice people to drive more. Transportation accounted for 39 percent of the state’s emissions in 2015, making it California’s largest source of greenhouse gases.

    “As far as the small emissions reduction goes, if it’s due to a growing economy, we’ll take it,” said Dave Clegern, spokesman for the board, which oversees most of California’s climate-change efforts…

    California law requires utilities to get one third of their electricity from renewable sources by 2020 and half by 2030…
    Yet year-by-year progress on cutting emissions has been inconsistent. Emissions even rose in 2012, due to two unforeseen events. The drought cut the output of hydroelectric dams. And the sudden closure of the San Onofre nuclear plant forced Southern California utilities to buy more electricity from power plants burning natural gas.

    Last winter’s heavy snows in the Sierra should lead to strong hydropower production this year. And the state is adding renewable power at a rapid clip.

    One sunny afternoon last month, renewables (not including large hydropower plants) briefly supplied a record 67.2 percent of power to the California grid…READ ALL
    http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/California-s-greenhouse-gas-emissions-fall-by-11206585.php

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    Geoffrey Williams

    Finkel’s report is more of the same; for as long as governments continue to ‘distort’ the market by giving preferential deals to ‘renewables’ then we will have serious problems with our energy supply. Finkel’s plan is to make Australia’s energy production and marketing even more complex with more rules, more bureaucrats, more renewables.
    None of these measures will change anything and we are heading down the path of unreliable and very expensive electricity. And all to satisfy the ideology of the green left warmists.
    The country cannot sustain a competitive economy in such an environment.
    Government has to stop prefferencing ‘unreliables’ in this stupid and vain attempt to change a perfectly good climate.
    GeoffW

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      el gordo

      I’ve been reliable informed that it has nothing to do with climate change, that is settled, now the discussion is on dirty coal and how quickly we can eliminate its use.

      Hopefully globally temperatures fall soon, otherwise it’ll be cheap solar farms scattered far and wide.

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    philthegeek

    Hopefully globally temperatures fall soon,

    Yeah thats supposed to start when again??

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    pat

    9 Jun: CarbonPulse: NGO warns of offset credibility threat to China’s carbon market
    As many as 52.7 million offsets potentially issued every year in China are of dubious quality and could threaten the integrity of the nation’s fledgling emissions market if they are allowed in the national ETS, environmental campaigners warned on Friday…

    9 Jun: CarbonPulse: RGGI auction clears at 4.5-year low as prices keep falling
    This week’s quarterly RGGI auction cleared at $2.53/ton, the lowest level since late 2012, as prices in the north-eastern US carbon market continued to fall amid oversupply and uncertainty regarding the scheme’s future.

    9 Jun: CarbonPulse: Canada should get rid of climate policies that aren’t cost-effective compared to carbon pricing -report
    Canada’s federal and provincial governments should abandon some climate policies that don’t complement their carbon pricing measures, such as rebates for electric cars, because they are expensive for what they accomplish, according to a new report.

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    pat

    8 Jun: SacramentoBee: Christopher Cadelago: If you don’t like California’s gas tax increase, you’re not alone
    California voters overwhelmingly oppose a recent tax and fee package pushed by Gov. Jerry Brown and the Democratic-dominated Legislature to pay for road repairs, a new poll finds.

    The gas tax law, which ushers in a 10-year program to raise more than $52 billion for transportation projects, is so unpopular it could backfire on Democrats in upcoming elections.

    Fifty eight percent of voters oppose Senate Bill 1, including 39 percent who say they strongly reject the legislation, according to the survey from UC Berkeley’s Institute of Governmental Studies. Only 35 percent favor the law, which raises taxes on gasoline and diesel and hikes vehicle registration fees to fix roads and highways.

    The opposition is widespread. Voters in all major regions of the state other than the Bay Area, all listed races and ethnic subgroups, and all age categories over 30 are unhappy about it. Strongly liberal voters are the only group in which a large majority supports the law…

    The bottom line, said poll director Mark DiCamillo, is that people don’t like to have their taxes increased…READ ON
    http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article155169859.html

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    Dennis

    Let there be more sceptics like this man speaking out and calling the climate change industry for what it is …

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/cnn-gets-heat-of-warming-bias/news-story/2abedf9f2fadf5e5cc88b78c65c696a1

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    • #
      el gordo

      China, the US, India and Russia are all going to increase emissions, which sort of makes a mockery of Finkel’s Report.

      Elsewhere its Merkel in strife …..

      ‘According to the online English version of Der Spiegel, “The German chancellor had been hoping to isolate Donald Trump on climate issues at the upcoming G-20 summit in Hamburg“, but a number of longtime US allies have decided that the overall relationship with America is more important than the flakey, UN-manufactured “climate crisis”.

      - See more at: http://notrickszone.com/#sthash.H97heVhW.dpuf

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    pat

    ***except “coal backers” don’t get a single quote in this piece. reminds me of CAGW “debates” – completely one-sided, and has Butler dishonestly saying including coal would result in “skyrocketing prices”:

    10 Jun: Australian: AAP: Energy report sparks new ***coal debate
    ***Coal backers in the coalition are already speaking out about the findings of a major climate report by the chief scientist, less than 24 hours after its release…
    The opposition’s climate spokesman Mark Butler says the party is open to Dr Finkel’s recommendations, but insists the government can’t “rig” the definition of clean energy to include coal-fired power.
    “It’s a nonsense,” he told reporters in Adelaide on Saturday.
    “If that is the basis on which Malcolm Turnbull wants to start negotiations with other parities, including federal Labor, then negotiations are not going to go very far.”

    Mr Butler said if the proposal falls over because the likes of Tony Abbott and Barnaby Joyce push for broader definitions of clean energy, Australians will continue to see plummeting security and skyrocketing prices…
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/climate/western-sydney-mp-craig-kelly-calls-for-fresh-review-of-finkel-reports-effects-on-economy/news-story/d9ecbbaeeda47e69d8355e32acd4e2c2
    (PLENTY OF PRO-COAL COMMENTS)

    can’t access the following, as it’s behind a paywall. if anyone can excerpt, good:

    Australian: Judith Sloan: Finkel report makes a politically feasible solution harder by arguing for more intrusion in the power market.

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    pat

    10 Jun: Irish Examiner: Anne Lucey: Councillors in Kerry ‘astonished’ at wind turbine proximity to homes
    No provision has been made in planning laws, in Kerry, for a minimum distance of the erection of huge wind turbines from family homes.
    Some county councillors said they were “astonished” that 150m-high turbines were being located 500m from residences. Councillors are demanding that large turbines, compared to the height of Dublin’s Spire, should be a minimum distance of 10 times their height, or at least 1.2km, from homes.
    Controversy has raged in Kerry in recent months with wind turbine construction now continuing in populated lowland areas, especially along the Wild Atlantic Way tourist route.
    Amid a controversial proposed energy project in the heart of Sliabh Luachra, county councillors were told at a meeting of the Killarney Municipal District that there were no ‘minimum distance’ regulations.
    Telecommunication masts are governed by a 1km rule but no provision is in place in the County Development Plan for the erection of wind turbines…

    Councillor Donal Grady said the lack of regulation is extraordinary and he had witnessed people crying over the inconvenience and noise of turbines near their homes.
    The community in Sliabh Luachra, meanwhile, is calling for a minimum 2km distance from family homes.
    A region bordering Cork, Kerry, and Limerick, it is a designated area of cultural and heritage importance.

    Locals have mobilised against plans for what they describe as “monstrous” turbines of 150m height along an 8km stretch through seven townlands in the heart of a music and cultural homeland.
    Silver Birch Renewables Ltd, based at the Kerry Technology Park in Tralee, had sought planning for 14 turbines between Ballydesmond and Gneeveguilla.
    Objectors say houses on the Cork side of Ballydesmond will suffer as much as on the Kerry side.
    The application was lodged in April but was recently turned down by Kerry County Council.
    “Now they are at least 120 metres — the height of the Spire in Dublin — and are coming into densely populated areas,” (North Kerry councillor Jimmy Moloney) noted…
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/councillors-in-kerry-astonished-at-wind-turbine-proximity-to-homes-452186.html

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    pat

    in Australia, legislation should be passed so that all wind turbines are installed in Labor or Green territory!

    9 Jun: Herald-Review: Ryan Voyles: What’s that? 400-foot turbine alters Macon County landscape
    But even as the machines will soon tower over farmland east of Maroa, pending litigation is casting a shadow over a project that’s been years in the making.
    The 139 turbines of Radford’s Run Wind Farm, a subsidiary of E.ON, the American unit of Germany’s largest utility company, are expected to be operational by the end of the year.
    Not everyone is pleased.

    Three dozen landowners in the area of the wind turbine filed a lawsuit to halt the project in 2015, and a summary judgment hearing is scheduled for June 27. The court could determine whether the landowners’ case has merit and halt the turbine project or let it move forward.

    “When they decided to move forward with this project despite the pending lawsuit, they did it at their own risk,” said Richard Porter, a Rockford attorney representing 36 landowners in the lawsuit. “And they may have to remove all of those turbines.”
    He reiterated several of the health concerns raised in the lawsuit, such as shadow flickers and ultrasound emissions…

    In a 2016 report by the institute, the annual fatality rate for birds in most studies ranged from 3 to 5 birds per megawatt. Radford’s Run Wind Farm will have turbines that produce just over 2 megawatts per hour.
    ???The report does note that newer, larger turbines seem to have a lower fatality rates due to fewer overall rotations
    http://herald-review.com/news/local/what-s-that–foot-turbine-alters-macon-county-landscape/article_ec69d742-2e72-5a94-aa01-5f1cc55bd5be.html

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    pat

    9 Jun: CrossvilleChronicle: Apex suspends Crab Orchard Wind project
    The controversial wind turbine project planned for eastern Cumberland County has been suspended by the developer.
    Apex Clean Energy announced the decision Friday afternoon.
    “Based on current market conditions and the project’s fundamental qualities, we have decided not to make this significant investment at this time,” Harry Snyder, development manager, wrote. “Our work on the Crab Orchard Wind project will be therefore suspended until market conditions change to make the project more competitive.”
    The estimated $100 million project was first announced in January 2016…
    http://www.crossville-chronicle.com/news/glade_sun/apex-suspends-crab-orchard-wind-project/article_2064472a-4d51-11e7-9264-4fbdee2f8382.html

    how the fight was won – lessons for people everywhere:

    May 2016: CrossvilleChronicle: Wind Resistance — Apex responds to anti-turbine challenges
    Wind resistant FFG residents opposed to this project have formed a group called the Cumberland Mountain Preservation Coalition…
    The following is an excerpt from the coalition’s information passed out at its meetings regarding its noise argument:

    “Based on internet research, human exposure to wind farm noise is a significant issue. Infrasound is an inaudible level of noise, much less than 40–decibels, characterized as pulsating energy. Infrasound disorder is addressed at length on the Center for Disease Control website… The noises emitted from a large wind turbine can travel six miles or more based on topographical features of the site area and weather conditions. Human exposure can occur within and outside of an individual’s dwelling.”

    A Wind Turbine Health Impact Study from Massachusetts University in 2012 stated, “Infrasound refers to vibrations with frequencies below 20 Hz… Most epidemiologic literature on human response to wind turbines relates to self-reported ‘annoyance,’ and this response appears to be a function of some combination of the sound itself, the sight of the turbine, and attitude towards the wind turbine project.”

    In regard to the ability for infrasound to affect residents’ inner ears where sensory information about motion, equilibrium and spatial orientation is provided by the vestibular apparatus, the Massachusetts University study concluded, “Claims that infrasound from wind turbines directly impacts the vestibular system have not been demonstrated scientifically. Available evidence shows that the infrasound levels near wind turbines cannot impact the vestibular system.”

    Property Values
    Another argument presented by the coalition states:
    “Numerous internet articles describe property value losses of 30 to 40 percent because of nearby wind turbine farms. The inability to sell, leading to property abandonment, is not uncommon. This occurrence is documented across the United States, multiple countries in Europe, in Canada and Australia.”…
    http://www.crossville-chronicle.com/news/glade_sun/wind-resistance-apex-responds-to-anti-turbine-challenges/article_b941d184-1796-11e6-975e-9fdc8425d827.html

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    pat

    McCrann lays it out from A-Z, figuratively speaking.
    read all:

    10 Jun: Australian: Terry McCrann: Solar and wind power will never come cheap
    Sorry, Alan (Kohler), you are wrong.
    There is no way that wind and solar is cheaper to produce than coal-fired power, despite the assorted — and your — claims of the cost spiralling down. Wind and solar are not 21st century disruptive technologies but a back to a 19th century future ones.
    The only way they are able to be competitive with coal is by massive direct subsidies and their mandatory use under the RET — the renewable energy target.
    Plus, absolutely fundamentally, their ability to tap into real, coal-fired, power generation when, you know, the wind don’t blow and the sun don’t shine…READ ALL
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/opinion/terry-mccrann/solar-and-wind-power-will-never-come-cheap/news-story/7e3d1eb42b5961322185d2546e029759

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      toorightmate

      Alan Kohler (and Ian Verrander) will be right one day.
      Surely you cant be wrong for an entire lifetime.

      Peter Hartcher (Sydney Morning Hamas) wins the 2017 Award for Comedy. He referred to Turnbull as “Captain Sensible”.

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    Konrad

    Well I’ve flicked through the Finkel report, and as expected it’s garbage.

    Sure there are some fair assessments of the need for grid inertia and frequency stability, but little realistic plan to achieve this except for greater state interconnection and a passing mention of rapid response gas-fired reserve. But no one is going to build that gas fired reserve as its output will have to fluctuate with the weather, and the report suggests a market mechanism to reduce the high spot prices that are the only way reliable baseload power can operate intermittently (with massively increased maintenance costs) in a market that demands wind and solar are purchased first.

    The report also suggests that all generators should have a “Generator Reliability Obligation.”, but of course wind and solar can never economically provide that.

    Further the report doesn’t offer any path to reduced energy costs. All the mechanisms suggested may only cause reduced increase in costs over our current RET insanity.

    The report recommends better “Black Start” capability. Why would we need that if we were planning on reliable baseload power? That recommendation is a clear indication that increased wind and solar make our grid more unreliable.

    Then there is the Marxism. Existing fossil generators already forced to the wall by government regulation, and facing further regulation to reduce the high spot prices they need to supply when wind and solar cannot, are being told they must provide 3 years of notice before shutting down to save their shareholders from this madness.

    But above all, the report’s recommendations support the primary objectives of the government employees who wrote it. Its primary recommendation are for more bureaucrats, more committees, more studies, more reports, more money for existing departments and more government departments.

    The report claims to have these objectives:
    • Provide a secure, reliable and affordable electricity supply.
    • Support investor confidence.
    • Contribute to reducing emissions.
    • Be innovative and responsive to change.
    These objectives cannot realistic be achieved by the recommendations in the report. All they can achieve is protecting Alex Turnbull’s gamble on Infigen shares.

    So you could read through 200 pages of the Finkel report tripe, Or you could act on the recommendations of the Konrad report:
    1. Adding radiative gases to our radiatively cooled atmosphere cannot reduce our atmosphere’s radiative cooling ability nor its ability to cool the solar heated surface of our planet.
    2. Given point 1, there is no scientific reason to change from energy generation that produces the life giving gas CO2, save resource limitation. Currently fossil reserves are estimated in excess of 4000 years for coal and gas based on current consumption.
    3. Given points 1 & 2, all further taxpayer funding for wind and solar subsidy farmers should cease.
    4. 10 year tax exemptions should immediately be offered to investors in new technology HELE supercritical coal power stations to be built in all Australian states. Just like they are building in Japan, Germany, South Korea, China and India.
    5. Taxpayer money should be made available for an immediate start on thorium mining and an Australian LFTR research reactor.

    Finkel is the guy who refused to provide empirical evidence for the foundation claims of the AGW conjecture to the senate. Konrad is the guy who has the empirical evidence that disproves the foundation claims of the AGW conjecture. Who’s plan is going to “provide a secure, reliable and affordable electricity supply” for Australia?

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    David Maddison

    The problem with the politicians is (a) they will not bother to read the report, (b) they are too stupid to understand it or the other issues in any case and (c) at some point they will simply vote to accept its recommendations without knowing what they’re voting for.

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    pat

    10 Jun: Bloomberg: Glencore Moves to Top Chinese Rival in $3.5 Billion Coal Play
    by Danielle Bochove
    Glencore Plc’s Ivan Glasenberg is looking to trump China’s Yanzhou Coal Mining Co. with a rival bid for Rio Tinto Group coal assets in Australia.

    The company’s chief executive officer submitted a proposal to buy Rio’s Coal & Allied coal unit in New South Wales for $2.55 billion, the Baar, Switzerland-based producer and trader said Friday in a statement. If successful, the company would also seek to buy Mitsubishi Corp.’s stakes in two coal ventures for $920 million in the same area…
    The Rio coal operations are adjacent to existing Glencore mines in Australia’s Hunter Valley, and would take Glencore’s production capacity in the area to 81 million metric tons a year…READ ON
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-06-09/glencore-seeking-rio-s-coal-allied-stake-for-2-55-billion

    9 Jun: Reason blog: Ronald Bailey: Coal as ‘Clean’ as Natural Gas?
    A renaissance for King Coal?
    A Japanese company claims to have developed a new coal-burning technology (LINK) that boosts coal’s energy efficiency by 30 percent while reducing its carbon dioxide emissions by as much as 40 percent. Unlike conventional plants, which burn coal at around 700 degrees Celsius, the Osaka Coolgen plant roasts coal at more than 1,300 degrees Celsius while simultaneously blowing oxygen over it to convert the solid fuel into a gas. The plant also uses exhaust heat to generate power, and it extracts hydrogen from the gas to use in fuel cells to create electricity…READ ON
    http://reason.com/blog/2017/06/09/coal-as-clean-as-natural-gas

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  • #

    Does anybody have a link to Finkel’s report?

    Does it have the usual disclaimer about seeking your own expert advice before taking the “recommended” action?

    00

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    Angry

    JOIN AGL’S DOTS TO HIGHER BILLS !!!

    Seen the ads on TV from electricity supplier AGL boasting it will stop using terrible coal-fired electricity?

    Missing is the admission that this green zealotry comes at a terrible price !!

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/blogs/andrew-bolt/join-agls-dots-to-higher-bills/news-story/346475196c59bcbbaf861fafdd19fdf6?nk=820575f7fe3250ed59c517fdeb4c8180-1497164962

    TIME TO DITCH AGL AND FIND AN ALTERNATIVE ELECTRICITY SUPPLIER !

    PRICKS!

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    yarpos

    So dissappointing on so many levels.

    Once again we confect a situation where we become a low income, non value adding quarry for others.

    Finkel imagines that somehow (in some universe far far away apparently) that this plan will lower consumer costs. Where does he get his models ? the IPCC?

    We still have fools like VIC energy minister d’ambrosio prattling about renewables lowering costs , even though it has not happened anywhere as far as I can tell. To be fair if you correspond with her , its pretty clear that she is an empty vessel that just mouths the words of the department.

    We had plans to implement a standby generator before this summer. Given this announcement, and the congenital stupidity exhibited by the VIC government I think we may have to ramp up the capacity and quality of what we planned. It could get far more use for far longer than I imagined.

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    ren

    Satellite Products
    The ice surface temperature strongly affects heat exchange between the surface and the atmosphere and the rate of ice growth. In order to perform proper forecasting of weather and sea-ice conditions, it is essential to obtain accurate surface temperatures.

    A sparsely distributed observational network, consisting of drifting buoys, cannot resolve the surface temperature variations in the Arctic sufficiently but satellite observations can fill in the gaps of the traditional observational network.

    The DMI ice temperature product (IST) uses three thermal infrared channels from the Advanced Very High Resolution Radiometer (AVHRR) on board the Metop-A satellite to calculate the surface temperatures in the Arctic.
    http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/ice_temp/plots/icetemp.arc.d-00.png

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    Egor the One

    The Foinkel Fiasco. Where do they get clowns like this from ?

    This character looks like Larry out of the 3 Stooges. A pretender as Chief Propagandist.

    TurnBull may as well as appointed Flannery…….Where’s the difference? Both spout gloBull warming BS.

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    Angry

    Turnbull will pull Abbott into line—really?

    A furtive Finkel fumbles frequently founding folly for fools……..

    http://morningmail.org/turnbull-will-pull-abbott-line-really/comment-page-1/#comment-47292

    00