JoNova

A science presenter, writer, speaker & former TV host; author of The Skeptic's Handbook (over 200,000 copies distributed & available in 15 languages).


Handbooks

The Skeptics Handbook

Think it has been debunked? See here.

The Skeptics Handbook II

Climate Money Paper


Advertising

micropace


GoldNerds

The nerds have the numbers on precious metals investments on the ASX



Archives

Australian chief scientist says Trump is like Stalin, totally missing left’s war on science

Alan Finkel, Australia’s Chief Scientist, is blind to the rampant censorship that’s been going on for 30 years:

Australia’s chief scientist has slammed Donald Trump’s attempt to censor environmental data, saying the US president’s behaviour was comparable to the manipulation of science by the Soviet Union.

Speaking at a scientific roundtable in Canberra on Monday, Alan Finkel warned science was “literally under attack” in the United States and urged his colleagues to keep giving “frank and fearless” advice despite the political opposition.

“The Trump administration has mandated that scientific data published by the United States Environmental Protection Agency from last week going forward has to undergo review by political appointees before that data can be published on the EPA website or elsewhere,” he said.

Governments have been attacking science for decades

The real Soviet style censorship works by cutting funding to inconvenient research, giving awards and grants to namecalling activists, and funding incompetent psychologists who pump out sympathetic press releases that smear researchers who find the “wrong” result. It works by supporting a demonising culture that means honest scientists face exile, insults, threats to be sacked, evicted, blackballedterminated, punished, vilified and bullied, not to mention government funded fun aimed at blowing up your kids (as a joke), as well as entertainment about killing people like you,  and in some cases, talk of a RICO investigation.

The role of Chief Scientist is obviously not to inform and challenge the PM, but to be the yes-man face for PR purposes.

 

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 9.6/10 (109 votes cast)
Australian chief scientist says Trump is like Stalin, totally missing left's war on science, 9.6 out of 10 based on 109 ratings

Tiny Url for this post: http://tinyurl.com/hmgeodd

175 comments to Australian chief scientist says Trump is like Stalin, totally missing left’s war on science

  • #
    pat

    7 Feb: Australian: UK Times: Matt Ridley: Climate change: Politics and science are a toxic combination
    Back in December, some American scientists began copying government climate data onto independent servers in what press reports described as an attempt to safeguard it from political interference by the Trump administration. There is to be a March for Science in April whose organisers say: “It is time for people who support scientific research and evidence-based policies to take a public stand and be counted.”
    Well, today they have a chance to do just that, but against their own colleagues who stand accused of doing what they claim the Trump team has done. Devastating new testimony from John Bates, a whistleblowing senior scientist at America’s main climate agency, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, alleges that scientists themselves have been indulging in alternative facts, fake news and policy-based evidence…

    This is more than just a routine scientific scandal. First, it comes as scientists have been accusing US President Donald Trump and other politicians of politicising science. Second, it potentially contaminates any claim that climate science has been producing unbiased results. Third, it embarrasses science journalists who have been chronicling the growing evidence of scientific misconduct in medicine, toxicology and psychology, but ignored the same about climate science because they approve of the cause, a habit known as noble-cause corruption…
    Besides, this is just the latest scandal to rock climate science. The biggest was climategate in 2009…

    There was the case of the paper the IPCC relied upon to show that local urban warming was not distorting global data sets, which turned out to be based partly on non-existent data from 49 Chinese weather stations…
    Then there was the time when a well known climate scientist, Peter Gleick, stole the identity of a member of a think tank so he could leak confidential documents along with a fake one. Stephan Lewandowsky had to retract a paper about the psychology of climate scepticism that seemed to be full of methodological flaws and bizarre reasoning…
    And don’t forget Rajendra Pachauri, chairman of the IPCC for 13 years and often described as the “world’s top climate scientist”. He had to retract his “voodoo science” dismissal of a valid finding that contradicted claims from Pachauri’s own research institute about Himalayan glaciers, which had led to a lucrative grant…

    Under the Obama administration, says Professor Judith Curry, Bates’s colleague, “I suspect that it would have been very difficult for this story to get any traction.” Yikes…
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/the-times/climate-change-politics-and-science-are-a-toxic-combination/news-story/89da1b787fff9481f2f6ece000b880c4

    and still we wait for theirABC, Fairfax, NYT, WaPo, BBC, Economist, Financial Times, major TV networks, AP, Reuters, major foreign press to cover this story!

    483

    • #
      Owen Morgan

      As I said on Jo’s previous post, if scientists really want their evidence to be in the public domain, there’s no better strategy than actually putting it there.

      Why are these scientists trying to find ever more secret places in which to squirrel away their supposed data? Who, do we seriously believe, is more likely fanatically to be deleting documents: President Trump’s minions, or the “scientists” who so desperately want to hide them?

      342

      • #
        el gordo

        Hopefully someone still has the raw meteroligical data for Bathurst Gaol.

        I dead an audit.

        122

      • #
        Tom O

        I particular found this statement amusing -

        “The Trump administration has mandated that scientific data published by the United States Environmental Protection Agency from last week going forward has to undergo review by political appointees before that data can be published on the EPA website or elsewhere,” he said.

        Exactly what did this eggplant – sorry eggplants, it’s only an expression and not intended as an insult to you – think the Obama administration was doing? These [snip] don’t even realize just how ignorant they sound when they make these anal statements, and that really is, as Trump might say, “so sad.”

        41

    • #

      Spot on about science being fudged everywhere – except for Climate.

      Editor In Chief Of World’s Best Known Medical Journal: Half Of All The Literature Is False

      “Science has taken a turn towards Darkness”

      The plain fact is that regardless of your field of endeavour, if you do not produce the results they want you will not get paid or promoted. The days when scientists like Isaac Newton and many others were of independent means are over. They are all mortgage-slaves like the rest of us.

      252

      • #
        Ted O'Brien.

        That speaks from the very top of the mountain. And it supports what we have been saying. Nearly two years ago.

        I see there a reference to vaccines. For a long time I was burdened with asthma. Modern medication has relieved that, but the experience makes you pay attention and wonder what causes this selective problem. Apparently there is a vastly higher rate of asthma in Australia and New Zealand than in the rest of the world.

        My asthma was an allergic reaction to organic aerosols/dust. Environmental. But the environments of Australia and New Zealand are vastly different in terms of climate and dust in the air. So why the same asthma?

        As I search for possible links, one that occurs is that probably both countries use vaccines from a single principal supplier. It would be quite possible that a supplier uses a different production process which is not used elsewhere for one of the vaccines, and that this process could produce an as yet unobserved side effect with the vaccine.

        One day hopefully someone will check it out.

        91

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          47 years ago I met a bloke who had been transferred from Fiji to Adelaide by his company (CSR) because his asthma had become life threatening. Quite why the decision was to move him to the asthma capitol of Australia I cannot explain, but it worked! He had suffered from asthma since boyhood in Sydney but not at all for years in Adelaide – in fact he didn’t even go back to Sydney on holidays.
          Sort of cast doubts on the vaccine side effects theory.

          61

        • #
          ian hilliar

          A lot of asthma in Australia is due to pollen allery. We due not have four distinct seasons, as they do in Europe. Eucalypts flower twice a year,spring and autumn, and sporadically during the rest of the year. I am an ageing GP, but my father, a long deceased ENT specialist, believed that the high incidence of allergic asthma and allergic rhinitis was our native flora trying to drive us back into the sea. The old treatment was to take a ship back to England, if you had money. Three months at sea with very low pollen count, followed by benign European pollens. When you eventually got back to the Antipodes, you remained well for a year or two until your symptoms returned. Repeat as required. It worked. You don’t have to go that far, as the pollens in the NT are totally different to those in NSW.

          61

        • #
          Mari C

          I’ve seen studies where cockroach droppings has been blamed – and the one thing -all- countries have in common is cockroaches. And they aren’t a blight on only the poor.

          00

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        In psychology terms, the path to healing starts with admitting you have a problem. Being stiff necked and refusing to admit you are wrong only leads to chronic and eventually weird behaviour. Humans crave truth, and people who constantly lie are found out.

        The left seem to lack morality, biblically based or otherwise, their credo seems to be more nihilistic in behaviour……

        91

  • #
    TdeF

    “The Trump administration has mandated that scientific data published by the United States Environmental Protection Agency from last week going forward has to undergo review by political appointees before that data can be published on the EPA website or elsewhere”

    The IPCC reports are presented to the IPCC, a board made entirely of politicians, not scientists. They review, summarise and publish the reports, not the scientists themselves. They are free to completely change conclusions. The peer review process is so profound that when the IPCC announced with any evidence or science at all that 400 million Indians would die by 2035 because of melting Himalayan glaciers, the problem was a typing error? Why hasn’t Finkel et al. protested this? Or is political interference is only acceptable if they are on your side?

    393

    • #
      TdeF

      Just to remind everyone, IPCC means Inter Governmental Panel on Climate Change. Governments controlling climates. It is a panel of political appointees whose job depends on finding and proving Climate Change and justifying the behavior of their governments in raising carbon taxes. Just like our CSIRO. Not a whimper from scientists, except one IPCC scientist I remember who resigned because the panel completely reversed his findings.

      433

      • #
        Oliver K. Manuel

        An additional reminder: United Nations‘s IPCC and Al Gore received a Nobel Prize for promoting Stalin’s false science after uniting nations and national academies of sciences on 24 OCT 1945.

        https://realclimatescience.com/2017/02/carbon-pollution-and-green-energy/#comment-39635

        91

      • #
        Oliver K. Manuel

        A worldwide news blackout of Asian events in the closing days of WWII kept all of us from knowing that frightened world leaders formed the UN because Stalin had captured the world’s remaining inventory of atomic bombs from Japan at Konan, Korea in AUG 1945, soon after allied atomic bombs destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki on 6 & 9 AUG 1945:

        http://www.my-jia.com/The_Flight_of_the_Hog_Wild/preview.htm

        Stalin had a convincing reason for frightened world leaders to agree to unite nations and national academies of sciences in order to hide the source of energy in atomic bombs on 24 OCT 1945 – Better Red Than Dead.”

        To save themselves and the world from possible world-wide nuclear annihilation, world leaders united nations and national academies of sciences into a world-wide network that ruled the world by deceit with Scandavian National Academies of Sciences giving Nobel and/or Crafoord Prizes for “97% consensus science”

        The 1983 Nobel Prize in Physics and the 1986 Crafoord Prize in Geological Sciences are recent examples of false science that set the stage for 2007 Nobel Prizes for the UN’s IPCC and Al Gore for fake scientific evidence global warming is induced by CO2 from industrialized western nations.

        The late Professor Paul Kazuo Kuroda was the first nuclear scientist to examine the ruins of Hiroshima in AUG 1945. Kuroda risked the rest of his life trying to prevent Stalin from using the UN and the UNAS (United National Academies of Sciences) from using science to deceive and control humanity:

        https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/TRIBUTE_TO_KURODA.pdf

        71

        • #
          OriginalSteve

          And yet we have the military industrial complex we were warned about….

          When the pak bodies of psychologists etc define debient behaviour as “normal”, you know you have a Nicoli Ceaușescu problem on your hands…..

          51

        • #
          Peter C

          Sorry Oliver,

          I find it hard to believe that Japan had the time and resources to develop an atomic bomb in 1944/45. Not much evidence remains it seems.

          42

        • #
          Oliver K. Manuel

          Peter C.

          I also found it hard to believe Japan successfully build atomic bombs and Stalin’s troops captured Japan’s atomic bomb plant at Konan, Korea, together with the American crew of a B-29 bomber in late AUG 1945 (as reported in the Atlanta Constitution in 1946)

          http://www.my-jia.com/The_Flight_of_the_Hog_Wild/preview.htm

          But that would explain why:

          1. Weizsacker’s flawed definition of “nuclear binding energy” was inserted in nuclear physics textbooks worldwide, replacing Aston’s valid definition of “nuclear packing fraction.”

          2. Kuroda secretly retained a personal copy of Japan’s atomic bomb plans for the next 57 years, 1945-2002.

          3. Nations and national Academies of Sciences were united to hide neutron repulsion, the source of energy in atomic bombs from the public with false 97% consensus “science.”

          4. Kuroda exhibited a superior knowledge of nuclear pile theory and the birth of the solar system in predicting the occurrence of natural nuclear reactors burning spontaneously on Earth 2 Ga ago and the presence of extinct Pu-244 from rapid neutron-capture at the birth of the solar system.

          Another investigative reporter, Robert Wilcox, independently concluded Japan built atomic bombs that Stalin’s troops captured.

          But I agree it is difficult to believe the effectiveness of the news blackout of events in SE Asia after 9 AUG 1945 until nations and national academies were united under the UN on 24 OCT 1945.

          41

  • #
    Dennis

    Considering that the UK Chief Scientist contradicted the man-made global warming UN IPCC claims when asked to report to the Blair Labour Government and they binned his report and instead asked the Chief Economist to report on what action should be taken assuming that the UN IPCC was right.

    We seem to have appointments to senior positions of people most likely to support the UN IPCC.

    341

  • #
    crakar24

    The Russians loved Joseph Stalin so much the made a very good tank and named it after him, they called it the “IS”, therefore I wont believe a word by the good Doctor until the Americans make a good tank and call it the “Donald”

    141

    • #
      crakar24

      A red thumb for using a tank analogy for saying Stalin was a communist and Trump is not, in retrospect I should have know a leftist F**&^%$#$@$%^D would not understand.

      264

      • #
        OriginalSteve

        I have met many left-leaning people who are intelligent and reasonable.

        However I also find a hard core of extreme leftists who are basically anti-human by basis of their beliefs and an actual danger to humanity.

        Extreme leftism by its nature is actually dangerous as its closer to a zombie “hate everything and everyone” state and promotes an ideaology that cannot fit with the norm of human behaviour and aspirations of wanting a decent and better life.

        The natural state of Leftism is forced servitude and slavery.

        No thanks….

        20

  • #
    John Watt

    Trump is certainly causing havoc in the echo chamber /bubble.

    Most of the commentary on the Trump/Turnbull phone conversation ignores the elephant in the room:Obama. Obama wanted to play the “big man” in the final days of his Presidency. Turnbull had a refugee problem. Obama offered a solution which Turnbull would obviously accept. On the surface, the proposed US resettlement was a most unlikely outcome given Trump’s clearly stated policy stance. What a surprise when Trump got annoyed. The reality also ignored by local commentators : Australia was delaying accepting these refugees, so it is obvious Trump would also be reluctant to take them. A bit of Trump “embarrassment” confected by Obama/Turnbull?

    Instead of trying to outdo Turnbull Finkel should be providing the less scientifically enlightened of us a factual account of the effect of atmospheric CO2 on climate. In the absence of such an explanation from Finkel, one conclusion is that there is very little effect if any.
    So if Finkel is just another Trump dumper, who needs him? There are enough of them already.

    Pity the Donald can’t say “You’re fired”. Over to you Malcolm.

    303

    • #
      PeterPetrum

      John, Finkle gave an “explanation” to Malcolm Roberts in the Senate hearing that Roberts called. It was the most condescending load of rubbish that I ever heard. I am not sure if Finkle did not know what he was talking about or if he thought that Roberts didn’t – probably the former.. I cannot remember the details, but it was something about ultra violet heat heating the earth and infra red heat being trapped by CO2 and heating the atmosphere. Malcolm just smiled, thanked him and asked him for the empiracle evidence, which Finkle said he would “try” and provide. Not done so, as far as I know.

      402

      • #

        PP, Finkle does “not know what he was talking about”. He is an electrical engineer that has no background (or it is evident, understanding) of the engineering (chemical and mechanical) subjects of thermodynamics, heat & mass transfer, and fluid dynamics. Reaction kinetics is an additional subject of chemical engineers which no other engineers and few scientists understand. Engineers should also know something of capital costs and economics but this seems to also have bypassed Finkle. Finkle seems to be following in the ( physical) oversize and foot in mouth of his predecessor Chubb who was supposed to have some clues about medical science but turned out to know very little about science, economics, or mangagement. Except he knew how to butter up some politicians. Finkle should resign over his stupid comments which do not even get history right about dictator (and murderer of tens of millions) Stalin.

        201

      • #
        Ted O'Brien.

        PP @ #5.1

        That would be on record, would it not?

        30

      • #

        I believe that you’re talking about this Senate Estimates Hearing to which somebody drew my attention a few days ago. Here’s my response:

        I’ve listened to Finkel’s evidence and he doesn’t sound like a scientist.

        Apart from Finkel’s confusion about Swiss/Swedish, he conveniently ignores that Arrhenius 19th century experiments and conclusions were shown to be flawed by Ångstrom and Woods.

        Finkel also confuses correlation with causation.

        Finkel is all too certain that nature cannot absorb all anthroprogenic CO2 emissions; the oceans alone absorb orders of magnitude more CO2 every day; and they emit again based largely upon the ocean surface temperature; that is governed substantially by the sun shining onto the surface of the oceans. You cannot heat the oceans by blowing warm air over them.

        The attribution of the “greenhouse effect” and its magnitude is based on a simplistic radiative (teaching) model of our Earth; indeed a flat Earth disc exposed continuously to a very dim sun.. That model makes no allowances for the thermal capacity of matter in the system; and simply waves its hands in the air when the “observed” (guessed) global average atmospheric temperature near ground level is compared to the results yielded by the simplistic radiative balance.

        Careful listeners will also note Finkel’s resort to logical fallacies such as appeal to authority and to popularity.

        He does not appreciate that computer model runs are not experiments.

        He also seems to be ignorant of the Principle of Falsifiability.

        It’s astonishing but not surprising that Australia’s Chief Scientist is ignorant of the modern philosophy of science and indeed; what constitutes a logical, rational and evidence-based argument.

        30

        • #

          Right Bernd. Blowing warm air over the oceans aids evaporation which cools the surface of oceans. It is evident in literature and blogs etc that no scientist understands evaporation which is part of the engineering subject Heat and Mass Transfer. Alarmists are not called out sufficiently for their lack of technical qualifications, understanding and competency. Chubb was technically incompetent. Finkle gives all the signs that he is also technically incompetent. Everyone knows that Flannery was/is technically incompetent. He was even a failure in his study area of paleontology with peer reviewed articles criticising his research findings in PNG.

          10

  • #
    Robber

    Sounds like an unscientific Chief Scientist, so what’s new?
    Problem is Dr Alan Finkel is leading an “independent” review into the security and reliability of Australia’s electricity grid, without daring to challenge the impact of the RET.

    231

  • #
    TdeF

    What possessed Finkel to say this? Surely American scientists can speak for themselves? Or is Finkel just doing his job?

    What Malcolm Turnbull does next will be interesting for the Green friends of Malcolm like Finkel.

    The emperor Malcolm has been called out very publicly. He took Abbott’s job on false pretences and never managed his preference swap deal with the Greens and so was left with Abbott’s legacy. Direct action, boat people, RET, plebiscite, no ETS/Carbon tax and no ability to pass a mouse through the senate. A lame duck for the entire period. Now all he has done is headbutt the new President of the United States, something which was as unwelcome as it was unexpected. He converted the very last 1,250 people into an international incident, wedging our greatest ally. Why?

    The fact is Malcolm was very reluctant to do any campaigning at all in the 2016 election, content to rest entirely on Abbott’s laurels and his Green swap so in the end he just squeaked by one seat thanks entirely to Unionist Daniel Andrews in Victoria who managed to offend just about everyone in the state.

    Heading to the next election with a massive and growing deficit, a one seat majority, 46% of the vote, a probable credit relegation, the Deluded Conservatives/Deplorables defecting en masse to Hanson, Xenophon and perhaps Bernadi, he probably could not be bothered standing next time. Getting on that tram in Melbourne was so humiliating.

    He will enjoy his $1.75Million investment, his $525,000 salary plus expenses for doing very little, a bit more overseas travel perhaps to visit his money in the Caribbean, a few dinner parties and resign leaving an impossible last minute task for whoever is mad enough to want the job. Maybe Abbott, a delicious double form of payback. Abbott will then have to start again from scratch while Malcolm retires on permanent holiday and writes his memoirs. They should should be very short.

    At least Malcolm can say he infuriated the President of the United States and that will get him a lot of kudos at dinner parties with his Green friends in the Principality of Wentworth. Being Prime Minister is just too much hard work.

    Meanwhile his loyal public servants and press will continue to attack Donald Trump with his full support. Just like his ABC. It would be nice though if Malcolm resigned tomorrow. Maybe then our senior public servants would stop attacking the new US President?

    200

    • #
      TdeF

      My first line of the moderated commment..

      What possessed Finkel to say this? Surely American scientists can speak for themselves? Or is Finkel just doing his job?

      If so, why is Australia’s chief scientist doing this? This is pure opportunistic politics. He is not fighting for freedom of scientists in Russia or China or any other country. He is not fighting for scientists in the defence industry or the rights of consumers and businesses crippled by the RET. He also knows this is a highly political issue and certainly not about the weather, but a trillion dollars. He would know that big organizations are also very political, just like himself. He knows that the government in the US has the right to force very political science to be vetted by politicians, or all scientists beyond reproach?

      What did he think of the ethics of Australia’s 350 full time scientists studying Climate Change in the CSIRO? What did they do for all those hundreds of millions of tax payer dollars? Was that ethical?

      As a lifelong electrical engineer, what does he really think of the meteorology, the chemistry, the physics and the politics driving this massive Climate Change business. Or has he decided to join in, just like geneticist Sir Paul Nurse from the Royal Society. It is at least a way to get your name in every leftist newspaper in the country as you fight for the freedom of scientists in America? Or is it more basic than that?

      151

    • #
      Yonniestone

      Speaking of Russian political history I can’t believe Lysenkoism hasn’t been mentioned again considering its close alignment with the CO2 warming movement.

      The switching from an agrarian-based economy towards an industrial economy and the liquidation of the kulaks, leading to mismanagement of collective farms. The resulting famine provoked the people and the government alike to search for any possible solution to the critical lack of food.

      The switching from an empirical-based science towards an industrial science and the liquidation of the deniers, leading to mismanagement of collective institutions. The resulting hiatus provoked the people and the government alike to search for any possible solution to the critical lack of warming.

      40

      • #
        TdeF

        In Australia we made a dead kangaroo expert not only Australian of the year but Chief Climate Commissioner of his very own Government Climate Commission along with his friends because his predictions suited the politics of the government of the day. With no hard science and a very basic degree in English from a third rate new university, he was made chief meteorologist with no meteorological skills at all. Our very own Lysenko. Who needs the entire Bureau of Meterology stuffed with real experts when you have a kangaroo expert who says what the government wants to hear?

        Where was the outcry from the science community then? Why didn’t the Bureau of Meteorology complain then? Why not the Chief scientist? Total silence. Where was the concern then about fake science?

        Where was the concern of the Chief Scientist with the farce at the CSIRO with 350 full time scientists ‘studying’ climate change when firstly we already had real professional and full time meteorologists in the BOM and secondly they were investigating nothing and looking to prove a problem, not find a solution, as admitted by the new CSIRO head. Pure politics, supporting fake science. The whole CSIRO organization is political, wasting hundreds of millions of dollars to support political science, not real science. Again the Chief Scientist said nothing and does nothing while the waste is incredible and remains inexplicable.

        However let the President of another country call out this fake and very political climate science agenda and our very own Chief Scientist protests? Perhaps he could do his job and protest massive taxpayer funded fake science at home and this by taxpayer funded organizations where he could make a difference?

        140

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          TdeF:

          Don’t you realise that the CSIRO is a sheltered workshop for scientists who graduated but cannot face the real world?
          Doesn’t mean they don’t come up with good ideas occasionally, even if these then seem to go overseas without much benefit to Australia.

          70

    • #
      David-of-Cooyal-in-Oz

      Good question TdeF.
      I wonder if it could be part of a concerted propaganda campaign which includes:

      Michael Mann in Sydney, reported today in SMH at:
      http://www.smh.com.au/environment/-gu688g.html

      and Climate Council/Will Steffan in:

      http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-08/heatwaves-to-be-hotter-longer-and-more-often-report-says/8248304

      But perhaps I’m giving them too much organisational credit?
      Cheers,
      Dave B

      30

    • #
      Rod Stuart

      It’s probably just as Ross Cameron says.

      00

  • #
    John of Cloverdale, WA, Australia.

    Trump is not Stalin. According to students at UC Berkeley. He is HITLER.
    Bob Scott, of Dilbert fame, objects.

    151

    • #
      crakar24

      Hang on now I am confused, is Trump a Communist or a Fascist?

      130

      • #
        James Murphy

        Apparently he is both, simultaneously. I am not sure how he does it.

        I look forward to seeing the irrational and anti-democratic Trump-haters fighting amongst themselves when one group of ‘trump is Hitler’ protesters meets a group of ‘trump is Stalin’ protestors.

        The only downside is that such a dense concentration of ignorance and self-righteous indignation could result in the spontaneous formation of a black hole, or gravity waves large enough to cause permanent damage to the LIGO network.

        It has already been observed from protests that large concentrations of anti-fact particles react violently, and release a lot of destructive energy when exposed to facts, yet, unlike matter/antimatter reactions where both are annihilated, it seems that facts remain unchanged, so I guess it’s more of a catalytic reaction…

        250

        • #
          James Murphy

          Technically, I should have referred to “gravitational waves”, please forgive my lazy typing.

          90

        • #
          el gordo

          They may unite under the banner of Trump is a National Socialist.

          60

        • #
          Rick Bradford

          Trump has achieved quantum status within three weeks of inauguration.

          Remember the experiments designed to test the particle/wave duality of light? Look for photons, you see photons. Look for wave-like interference patterns, you see waves.

          Light is both particle and wave, depending on what you go looking for.

          So, for the idiot crybaby Left, Trump can be Fascist or Communist, depending what you want to see. Or even the Taliban, according to some actress.

          Watching them totally lose their minds over this has been the finest thing I’ve seen in politics, and long may it continue.

          220

      • #
        John in Oz

        Trump is composed of CO2 so can be anything and everything at the same time

        140

        • #
          Crakar24

          I am torn between the hypotheses presented, I am leaning toward the null due to the alarmists do not know the difference between any ideological form of government and therefore there will be no change beyond natural variation

          60

        • #

          yeah, the miracle molecule rules.
          2-6-17 If you live in the world of Facebook, Lyft, Netflix and Airbnb, crowding into airports and shouting, “No Borders, No Nations, Stop The Deportations” makes sense. You don’t live in a country. You live in one of a number of interchangeable megacities or their bedroom communities. Patriotism is a foreign concept. You have no more attachment to America than you do to Friendster or Myspace. The nation state is an outdated system of social organization that is being replaced by more efficient systems of global governance. The only reasons anyone would cling to nations and borders are ignorance or racism.

          The demographic most opposed to President Trump is not a racial minority but a cultural elite. This isn’t a revolution. The revolutions happened in June and November; Brexit and Trump were revolutions. The protests against them are a reaction by the overthrown Establishment. http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/265668/elites-protest-new-revolution-daniel-greenfield
          2-6-17 During an interview on BBC on Sunday, US Ambassador to E.U. Malloch warned that the EU is in for a rude awakening: Whether the EU powers-that-be like it or not, Trump will only deal with countries on a nation-by-nation basis. That would effectively end the supposed underlying reason for the EU. https://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/europe/item/25321-trump-s-eu-ambassador-trump-will-only-make-trade-deals-with-nations-not-the-eu

          70

          • #

            correction to “US Ambassador to E.U.” Theodore Malloch–actually the US Senate has not yet confirmed this man; he is the choice only of the US Executive branch at this point. We have a tripartite check and balance system in USA, meaning that there is required something more than the Executive branch wishes.

            50

      • #

        A Fulminating Cashist. There is a rumor going around (just me, so far) that there is a Right-wing conspiracy to make Trump take New York and California in lieu of a salary, on the condition that he clean them up and see that they stay that way. This of course will require the Extreme Vetting (patent pending) of the residents of those two failed states. The seagulls on both coasts are alarmed at the prospect, it is said.

        73

      • #
        tom0mason

        Also remember that Stalin is notable in be one of the first to criticizing Hitler’s regime as being ‘Right-Wing’.
        Stalin’s rational was the German version of socialism was only national and nationalistic (NAZI party = National Socialism), and not the same as Stalin’s Soviet Union of Universal Socialism (Global Communism).
        Yes Hitler’s regime’s politics was very left-wing (big government, government financed and controlled industry, news, social welfare, transport, etc.) just not so extreme as Joe Stalin’s stated expansionist ideals of International Communism.
        From that point onward people have been confused by what is real left-wing(socialism) or real right-wing(liberalism) in politics.

        70

        • #
          rapscallion

          The confusion was deliberate. Hitler and his acolytes were no right wingers, indeed it was Goebbels who proclaimed that they were socialists. The only real difference between Stalin’s socialism and Hitler’s socialism was that one discriminated on the basis of class (perceived or otherwise), and the other one discriminated on the basis of race. However any excuse would have done for those who were just “inconvenient” like Kulaks or Gypsies. Throw in Mao and Pol Pot and it’s clear that socialism in any form will inevitably lead to death at the hand of the state – the only variable being the time taken to get there.

          110

          • #
            tom0mason

            Yes indeed.
            Indoctrinate, discriminate, eliminate.
            The Pigeon-holers’ Collective is united against the independent individuals.

            80

        • #
          Graeme No.3

          A number of astute observers in the early 1930′s referred to the Nazis as Bolsheviks as they couldn’t see much difference, nor did the Communists (see Patrick Leigh Fermor A Time of Gifts about the ease of conversion).
          The Nazis had to be “right wing deviationists” because Stalin had problems with Trotsky who was branded a “left wing deviationist”. Anybody Stalin didn’t like became a deviationist for the rest of their, usually short, life.

          50

      • #
        Mark D.

        Any kind of “ist” they can come up with. Add claims of “-phobic” too.

        50

  • #
    PeterPetrum

    Somehow, Jo, i can tell that you are not happy about our chief scientist. Right from the day i saw him make his “inauguration speech”, through the day when he condescendingly said he would “try” to find the empirical evidence that Malcolm Roberts asked for right to this infantile and ill informed spray that you have quoted I knew he was an absolute nonce, a scientific illiterate and a stooge for Trumble. What a mess we are in. I hold no hope for this government, or the next. Not sure if I will still be compus mentis when the third one eventuates.

    342

  • #
    AndrewWA

    This is what Dr Finkel had to say about Australia’s energy future on the Renew Economy website:

    Our electricity grid looks likely to progress more systematically to a cleaner more secure future thanks to Australia’s Chief Scientist Dr Alan Finkel being brought in – to lead the analysis and policy recommendations. For those who could not make Tuesday night’s 2.5 hour session in Adelaide with him, here are some of the key comments made by him and his team:

    1. Dr Finkel and SA’s Chief Scientist Leanna Read both see the grid becoming 100% renewable powered as the end point.
    2. Dr Finkel is walking the talk: all electricity at his home is sourced from green power electricity and he is an electric car user.
    3. He and his team will travel shortly to other renewable energy leading regions with few grid interconnections to share best practices for SA (Texas and Ireland), to high penetration locations committing to further quick transitions to distributed renewables (California, New York, Denmark, France, UK and Germany) and meeting GE and Siemens who are leading in creating distributed grid systems and controllers and grid storage.
    4. Is looking at technology that is technically proven and cost-effective over a 20-year time frame and their team has chosen to focus on:
    a. Solar;
    b. Wind;
    c. Battery backed frequency controlled synthesis and converted fossil fuel turbines to be on standby for grid stability;
    d. Storage (pumped hydro, batteries) and Combined Cycle Gas turbines to add more “on demand dispatch-able power”;
    e. More interconnections, competition and two-way flow of power on the grid.
    5. His team has chosen not to consider further:
    a. Any more baseload of any kind – the grid does not need more fixed output generators, but instead only fast acting on demand dispatchable generators;
    b. Asked about coal, he does not see any financiers backing the risk of building any more coal power stations in Australia;
    c. Asked about nuclear, he does not see over the 20 year horizon any technologies being proven or cost-effective and thus getting funding;
    d. Wave and geothermal for same reasons as nuclear;
    . Often raised the theme “social licence” – gas fracking and nuclear has lost its license in much of Australia, and grid retailers are at risk of losing theirs if they don’t improve transparency, quality and fairness.
    7. The grid needs more competition with more suppliers (especially in SA).
    8. There needs to a system transition that meets three key goals: meeting our Paris obligations, grid security and affordability; cannot focus on just 1 or 2 sides of the triangle in transitioning to the new grid.

    Unsurprisingly, Dr Finkel was a Malcolm Turnbull appointee!

    260

    • #
      James Murphy

      They never seem to travel to 3rd world countries to offer advice and share ‘best practices’ – I wonder what their response would be, if asked why that is…?

      130

    • #
      Hivemind

      “…sourced from green power electricity…”
      No, that isn’t possible in Canberra. The wind is too low and unreliable. Also, that big thermonuclear power source in the sky? It isn’t visible at night, so no power then. And if he claims that the Canberra power grid is “green” because he pays extra for the indulgences, that is just sophistry.

      “…is an electric car user.”
      I was wondering why there were two electric car charging bays at the Belconnen Markets. I wonder who the other green-nose is.

      141

    • #
      sophocles

      “Scientists” shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near the subject of a National Grid, let alone its actuality, until they can prove they know, understand and can solve freshman-level electrical mesh problems accurately using Kirchoff’s Laws. They must be able to speak with electrical engineers without needing an electrical dictionary.

      Electricity grids cannot be assembled from Fairy Dust and Unicorn Farts, no matter how much Wishful Thinking is to hold them together as none of them conduct electricity.

      The grid needs more competition

      Oh, that’s all right: he’s not on the same planet as the rest of us, just a different one, where Wishful Thinking does bind Fairy Dust to Unicorn Farts and the Grid just works. Transmission line theory has no provision for competition except in the compartments of What-Doesn’t-Work and Don’t-Try-This-It-Goes-Bang.

      180

    • #
      John of Cloverdale, WA, Australia.

      “Dr Finkel is walking the talk: all electricity at his home is sourced from green power electricity and he is an electric car user.” I wonder if his home has subsidized solar panels made in China with Australian coal sourced electricity. And most of his electric car is made of petrochemical and mining products. Not so Green after all, Dr. Finkel.

      161

      • #
        clive

        And we would like to see him drive between a couple of states in his”Electric thingy”But it could take a while,since most of these”Electric thingys”only travel a couple of hundred km before running out of”Electicity”from COAL.Ooops.

        30

    • #
      gnome

      So the little creep doesn’t need baseload power any more than he needs fossil fuels to get around.

      Net time he wants to travel from his home, wherever it is, insist that he do it by electric vehicle. Principles have consequences for the principled.

      171

    • #
      KinkyKeith

      Andrew,
      That is one spooky sort of post.

      Blatant politics in lieu of science.

      A Trumball appointment.

      71

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      “he does not see any financiers backing the risk of building any more coal power stations in Australia”.

      With an RET, that is. But he can’t see far, either.

      60

    • #
      Robber

      Then surely Dr Finkel is not flying around Australia to attend their public consultation meetings, and he will use wind power to travel overseas?

      50

    • #
      Robber

      Get your submissions in to the “Independent Review into the Future Security of the National Electricity Market” chaired by Dr Finkel before Tuesday Feb 21.
      Mailbox: NEMSecurityReview@environment.gov.au
      Details at https://www.environment.gov.au/energy/national-electricity-market-review

      40

  • #
    pat

    first, It wouldn’t bother me if EPA was shut down.

    however, our great Chief Scientist has been fooled by FakeNewsMSM. look where the story originated about Trump Admin MANDATING…

    26 Jan: UK Independent: Donald Trump’s team to review all Environmental Protection Agency studies before release
    by Michael Biesecker, ***Seth Borenstein, AP
    Donald Trump’s administration is mandating that any studies or data from scientists at the Environmental Protection Agency undergo review by political appointees before they can be released to the public…

    FOLLOWING IS LINKED FROM JO’S FINKEL GUARDIAN LINK:

    26 Jan: Guardian: Trump administration: EPA studies, data must undergo political review before release
    Review extended to content on agency’s website, including details of scientific evidence of climate change and that manmade carbon emissions are to blame
    by Associated Press in Washington
    The Trump administration is mandating that any studies or data from scientists at the Environmental Protection Agency undergo review by political appointees before they can be released to the public.

    THAT STORY WENT VIRAL, BUT NOT THE UPDATE THE SAME DAY, WHICH REMOVED & REPLACED THE “Trump administration is mandating” LINE – SAME AP URL FOR THE ORIGINAL ARTICLE, AND I CHOOSE TO BELIEVE AP WERE AT LEAST AS MUCH RESPONSIBLE FOR MUDDYING THE WATERS AS ERIKSEN IN THE ORIGINAL AND EVEN IN THE UPDATE:

    25 Jan: AP: EPA science under scrutiny by Trump political staff
    By MICHAEL BIESECKER and SETH BORENSTEIN
    (Associated Press writer Ellen Knickmeyer contributed from San Francisco.)
    Ericksen clarified his earlier statements he made to The Associated Press, which reported that the Trump administration was MANDATING that any studies or data from EPA scientists undergo review by political appointees before they can be released to the public. He said he was speaking about existing scientific information on the EPA ***website that is under review by members of the Trump administration’s transition team.
    He said new work by the agency’s scientists is subject to the same “temporary hold” as other kinds of public releases, which he said would likely be lifted by Friday. He said there was no mandate to subject studies or data to political review…
    “We’re taking a look at everything on a case-by-case basis, including the web page and whether climate stuff will be taken down,” Erickson said in an earlier interview with the AP. “Obviously with a new administration coming in, the transition time, we’ll be taking a look at the ***web pages and the Facebook pages and everything else involved here at EPA.”…
    Trump press secretary Sean Spicer appeared to distance the president from the issue, telling reporters the communications clampdown at EPA wasn’t directed by the White House…
    Some EPA employees have taken to their own social media accounts to say what’s happening inside the agency, despite fears of retaliation.
    “There’s a strong sense of resistance,” (former EPA regional administrator for California and the Pacific Northwes Jared) Blumenfeld said.
    http://bigstory.ap.org/article/c1423276fb574b07953651a68a082db9

    more to come…

    91

  • #
    pat

    it was all about the normal transition reviews of web pages. btw NPR wouldn’t help create the “misunderstanding”, would it?

    5 Feb: Newsweek: Tim Sohn: Trump Officials Blaming Media for EPA Turmoil, Leaked Emails Show
    EPA transition team communications head Doug Ericksen, also a Republican state senator from Washington, followed Benton’s lead. In an email sent by the EPA press office under his name Tuesday, he called media reports of potential political vetting of scientific research “inaccurate.” Here is the full email:
    (EMAIL) Response to media requests on science at the EPA by EPA Transition Team Communications Lead Doug Ericksen:
    Several articles last week reported that political appointees at the EPA would be vetting all scientific research and data before it is made public. These articles are inaccurate.
    The context of the discussion that led to the articles was about changes to the EPA ***web page and the process that will happen to refresh the ***web page.
    As most people can understand, the new Administration will make changes to the EPA web page just as previous administrations have done.
    At this point, we cannot say what the final changes will look like until there is a thorough review of the website.
    Claims that science and research will be deleted are simply not true. Because there are federal record keeping requirements, there is a process in place for archive Federal website information so it remains available to the public if it is removed from the active pages…END

    He failed to mention that the articles were the result of his own misstep—while speaking to ***NPR last week, he suggested that going forward, political appointees would have a say over the EPA’s scientific research. He has been walking back that statement ever since, as evident in this AP story (LINKS TO ORIGINAL SETH BORENSTEIN ET AL GUARDIAN ARTICLE WITH THE TRUMP ADMIN IS MANDATING LINE, THAT I EXCERPTED IN PREVIOUS COMMENT, & NOT THE UPDATED, CORRECTED AP ARTICLE DATED THE SAME DAY!)
    http://europe.newsweek.com/trump-officials-blame-media-epa-turmoil-leaked-emails-552536?rm=eu

    another angle:

    4 Feb: Daily Caller: Michael Bastasch: Pulitzer Prize Winning News Group Tweets Misleading Claims About EPA’s Website
    The revamped EPA website has an entire section on climate change, discussing its causes and projected future impacts. In fact, the website explicitly says “human activities have contributed substantially to climate change by adding CO2 and other heat-trapping gases to the atmosphere.”
    “These greenhouse gas emissions have increased the greenhouse effect and caused Earth’s surface temperature to rise,” reads EPA website. “The primary human activity affecting the amount and rate of climate change is greenhouse gas emissions from the burning of fossil fuels.”…
    So, what could InsideClimate News referring to? The news site reprinted an article by Climate Central, amplifying concerns of environmental activists that the EPA’s new website no longer mentions former President Obama’s “Climate Action Plan,” including a single reference to “carbon pollution.”…
    Climate Central’s report is really only about one part of EPA.gov that went from being called “Federal Partner Collaboration” to “EPA Adaptation Collaboration.” There’s still plenty of talk about global warming and its human component on the EPA’s website.
    But you wouldn’t get that impression based on InsideClimate’s tweet…
    http://dailycaller.com/2017/02/04/pulitzer-prize-winning-news-group-tweets-misleading-claims-about-epas-website/

    91

  • #
    Bulldust

    In case it hasn’t been covered yet, the ABC is running with the kid that wants to sue the US Government over climate change:

    http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/xiuhtezcatl-martinez-suing-us-government-over-climate-change/8245370

    I love the quote from the kid:

    “I didn’t really go to school, I just spent a bunch of time in nature,” he told Hack.

    Yep, that’s the kind of people the left are applauding these days… never mind the science… let’s see what the kid feels.

    180

    • #
      toorightmate

      I spent a lot of time with nature when I was a kid.

      Then I would get shit kicked out of me by my parents for wagging school.

      130

    • #

      Out of the mouths of (indoctrinated) babes.

      110

    • #
      Greg Cavanagh

      The replies were interesting; 26 gushing praises, 2 were critical. No deletions were evident (which doesn’t say much really).

      30

    • #

      Yep, that’s the kind of people the left are applauding these days… never mind the science… let’s see what the kid feels.

      Feels before facts.

      The ABC is now an entrenched purveyor of the tripe that brought commercial media “news” into disrepute and ridicule. vis e.g Working Dog’s “Frontline” and “Drop the Dead Donkey“.

      I did not always loathe the ABC and have fond memories of TDT, etc.

      30

  • #
    pat

    presumably comment #2 of this tale is in moderation, but NPR comes into play and I mention my mistrust of that CAGW hothouse. it’s worse than I imagine, if that’s possible.

    first, this, and note what Eriksen actually says:

    25 Jan: NPR: Nathan Rott: EPA Scientists’ Work May Face ‘Case By Case’ Review By Trump Team, Official says
    Scientists at the Environmental Protection Agency who want to publish or present their scientific findings likely will need to have their work reviewed on a “case by case basis” before it can be disseminated, according to a spokesman for the agency’s transition team.
    In an interview Tuesday evening with NPR, Doug Ericksen, the head of communications for the Trump administration’s EPA transition team, said that ***during the transition period, he expects scientists will undergo an unspecified internal vetting process before sharing their work outside the agency…

    “We’ll take a look at what’s happening so that the voice coming from the EPA is one that’s going to reflect the new administration,” Ericksen told NPR…

    Ericksen did not say whether such a review process would become a permanent feature of Trump’s EPA. “We’re on Day 2 here. … You’ve got to give us a few days to get our feet underneath us.”…

    Ericksen said it’s not abnormal for administrations to limit outward communication during their transition while they work toward getting different branches on point. Trump’s nominee for EPA administrator, Oklahoma Attorney General Scott Pruitt, is still awaiting confirmation
    ***It’s also not abnormal for administrations to restrict access to government scientists. In 2013, a statement by the Society of Environmental Journalists called the EPA under former-President Obama ***”one of the most closed, opaque agencies to the press.”
    “It’s certainly the case that every administration tries to control information, but I think that what we’re seeing here is much more sweeping than has ever been done before,” said Andrew Light, the distinguished senior fellow in the Global Climate Program at the nonpartisan World Resources Institute…
    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/01/25/511572169/epa-scientists-work-may-face-case-by-case-review-by-trump-team-official-says

    here’s where it gets really interesting.

    AUDIO DOWNLOAD LEFT COLUMN: 25 Jan: NPR All Things Considered: EPA Scientists’ Work May Be Subject To Review By Trump Team
    The Trump transition at the Environmental Protection Agency is off to a bumpy start. External communications have been frozen, and ***this morning NPR reported that even academic papers by agency scientists will be subject to review during the transition.
    ARI SHAPIRO, HOST: Joining us to discuss all this is NPR’s science editor Geoff Brumfiel.
    SHAPIRO: How unusual is it for things like press releases and blog posts to be halted during a presidential transition like this?
    BRUMFIEL: You know, it’s not all that unusual. I mean, what happens during a transition is political appointees sort to come in and take control of the top level of the agency And while those appointees are literally arriving in Washington getting set up, they want to make sure they’re in control of the agency, and so it makes sense that they would sort of tamp down on external communications during that transition period. It’s happened before.
    SHAPIRO: So it’s not all that unusual for press releases and blog posts to undergo a review during a period like this, but scientific papers is a little different, and that was not a public announcement. How did NPR learn about this?

    (PAT – THERE IS NO AUDIO FOR THESE CLAIMS)
    ***BRUMFIEL: That’s right. Our reporter Nate Rott called the Trump transition team at EPA and spoke to a guy named Doug Ericksen who’s running the transition team communications. And basically Nate called to confirm the freeze, but he also asked what about scientific papers, what about conferences if scientists want to go to conferences? And Ericksen said, somewhat to our surprise, that for now at least, even researchers will be subject to a case-by-case review for disseminating their scientific findings. Here’s exactly what he said.

    (PAT – THIS IS ALL HE SAYS IN THE AUDIO)
    DOUG ERICKSEN: We’ll take a look at what’s happening so that the voice coming from the EPA is one that’s going to reflect the new administration.

    SHAPIRO: And, Geoff, explain why that might be more worrisome when it comes to scientific papers than when it comes to things like press releases and blog posts.
    SHAPIRO: Do we expect this to be a permanent policy, or is it just a temporary transitional thing?
    BRUMFIEL: Well, Ericksen in his conversation to us emphasized that this was during the transition period, that that’s what they were ***thinking about right now. And today during a press conference, White House spokesman Sean Spicer went even further and said there was ***no coordinated effort to gag government agencies by the Trump administration at all.
    SEAN SPICER: They haven’t been directed by us to do anything. I think what they – what – from what I understand is that they’ve been told within their agencies to adhere to their own policies, but that directive did not come from here.
    BRUMFIEL: So I think what we’re seeing here is a transition process, maybe a little bit of a chaotic one. But I also think this sort of provides an insight into how the incoming Trump team sees the EPA and how they want to run the EPA, and what’s clear is that they want control over the communications.
    http://www.npr.org/2017/01/25/511655825/epa-scientists-work-may-be-subject-to-review-by-trump-team

    YET it is from this & a claim by AP, without any substantiating quote from Eriksen, that Seth Borenstein et al got their Trump Admin mandating story which went viral worldwide, & led to our Chief Scientist equating the US President with the Stalin regime?

    FakeNewsMSM is truly disgusting.

    Alan Finkel needs to apologise to the US President.

    131

  • #
    King Geo

    With Pat’s last comment in mind.

    “Finkel Finkel little star,
    How I wonder you got so far,
    As Chief Aussie Scientist you have let down this Nation,
    Now apologize to Trump for the sake of this Nation’s Salvation”.

    140

  • #
    PeterS

    Almost everyone has already forgotten the lesson. Trump is not the issue, he’s just a symptom of the social, cultural and economic problems facing Western civilization all over the world. He just happened to be at the right place at the right time to become President. It could have been almost anyone. People are sick and tired of the elite like Clinton and Obama (and Turnbull here). If Trump turns out to be like Stalin if not worse then it’s the fault of people like Obama who stood aside and did bugger all to stem the problems in the first place. When you are drowning you don’t really care who happens to come along to save you even if it happens to be Satan himself without you knowing.

    140

    • #
      ROM

      Trump is neither fascist nor communist as Peter S points out in #14.

      Now it is somwhat unusual here on Jo’s blog for someone to suggest to the denizens and lurkers that they read an article from the UK’s hard line leftist Guardian news sheet.

      But recommending it I am!

      The Guardian article in question which originally appeared in The Federalist is titled ;

      Trump is no fascist. He is a champion for the forgotten millions

      The whole text of this article strongly supports in every way Peter S’s comments in #14 above.

      Some quotes from the Guardian article.

      Amid the ongoing protests against President Trump, calls for “resistance” among Democratic politicians and activists, and the overheated rhetoric casting Trump and his supporters as fascists and xenophobes, an outsider might be forgiven for thinking that America has been taken over by a small faction of rightwing nationalists.

      America is deeply divided, but it’s not divided between fascists and Democrats. It’s more accurate to say that America is divided between the elites and everybody else, and Trump’s election was a rejection of the elites.

      That’s not to say plenty of Democrats and progressives don’t vehemently oppose Trump.
      But the crowds of demonstrators share something in common with our political and media elites: they still don’t understand how Trump got elected, or why millions of Americans continue to support him. Even now, recent polls show that more Americans support Trump’s executive order on immigration than oppose it, but you wouldn’t know it based on the media coverage.

      Support for Trump’s travel ban, indeed his entire agenda for immigration reform, is precisely the sort of thing mainstream media, concentrated in urban enclaves along our coasts, has trouble comprehending.
      The fact is, many Americans who voted for Trump, especially those in suburban and rural areas across the heartland and the south, have long felt disconnected from the institutions that govern them. On immigration and trade, the issues that propelled Trump to the White House, they want the status quo to change.

      During his first two weeks in office, whenever Trump has done something that leaves political and media elites aghast, his supporters cheer. They like that he told Mexican president Enrique Peña Nieto he might have to send troops across the border to stop “bad hombres down there”. They like that he threatened to pull out of an Obama-era deal to accept thousands of refugees Australia refuses to admit. They want him to dismantle Dodd-Frank financial regulations for Wall Street and rethink US trade deals. This is why they voted for him.

      The failure to understand why these measures are popular with millions of Americans stems from a deep sense of disconnection in American society that didn’t begin with Trump or the 2016 election. For years, millions of voters have felt left behind by an economic recovery that largely excluded them, a culture that scoffed at their beliefs and a government that promised change but failed to deliver.
      &
      For many Americans, Hillary Clinton personified the corruption and self-dealing of the elites.
      But Trump’s election wasn’t just a rejection of Clinton, it was a rejection of politics as usual.
      If the media and political establishment see Trump’s first couple of weeks in office as a whirlwind of chaos and incompetence, his supporters see an outsider taking on a sclerotic system that needs to be dismantled.
      That’s precisely what many Americans thought they were doing eight years ago, when they put a freshman senator from Illinois in the White House.
      Obama promised a new way of governing – he would be a “post-partisan” president, he would “fundamentally transform” the country, he would look out for the middle class. In the throes of the great recession, that resonated. Something was clearly wrong with our political system and the American people wanted someone to fix it.
      &
      In many ways, the 2016 election wasn’t just a referendum on Obama’s eight years in the White House, it was a rejection of the entire political system that gave us Iraq, the financial crisis, a botched healthcare law and shocking income inequality during a slow economic recovery.
      From Akron to Alaska, millions of Americans had simply lost confidence in their leaders and the institutions that were supposed to serve them. In their desperation, they turned to a man who had no regard for the elites – and no use for them.

      In his inaugural address, Trump said: “Today, we are not merely transferring power from one administration to another or from one party to another, but we are transferring power from Washington, DC, and giving it back to you, the people.” To be sure, populism of this kind can be dangerous and unpredictable, But it doesn’t arise from nowhere.
      Only a corrupt political establishment could have provoked a political revolt of this scale.
      Instead of blaming Trump’s rise on racism or xenophobia, blame it on those who never saw this coming and still don’t understand why so many Americans would rather have Donald Trump in the White House than suffer the rule of their elites.

      ————————–

      And Finkel?

      Finkel and his arrogant elitist intolerant attitude towards alternative political and social view’s is just another classic example of why the populace no longer has any trust in and demonstrates an increasing level of frustration along with a climbing level of total contempt for the self indulging, rigidly dogmatic, legends in their own minds, elites who living in their own tiny self aggrandising bubbles of like minded elitists, imagine that they hold the populace in thrall to their power and influence.

      Finkel and his attitudes towards the ordinary members of Australian society is the classic example of the academic and political Elitism that has led to the rise of Donald Trump and is leading to the rise of Le Pen in France, Geert Wilders in the Netherlands ,Matteo Salvini in Italy, the quietly increasing revolt of the eastern Europeans towards the overweening haughty dogmatism and arrogance of the unelected EU commissars and now the rise of the right wing in the form of Temer in Brazil in the last few weeks.

      Trump purely and simply is the creation of the American east and west coast Elites alone and nobody else.

      An arrogant and snearing Finkel and his fellow inner city academic and professional Elitists are among the forces that are leading to the comeback of Pauline Hanson and the splitting of Cory Bernadi from the Liberals along with who knows what is yet to come as those ignorant “deplorables” on the bottom of the social scale finally decide they have had enough of being abused and looked down and figuratively spat on by the Finkels of this world and his academic, political and professional and well compensated hard left “activist” elites here in Australia.

      343

      • #
        Ted O'Brien.

        Yes. As I watch the hysteria, Trump Derangement Syndrome as Miranda Devine calls it, at the smh I wonder: 1. How long can they keep this up?, 2. Will they then just crash?, or 3. Will they finally see reality, see the light, and turn around?

        The hysteria is driven by desperation, just as was the massive boost to the AGW campaign a couple of years back, which, so far, has paid off for them. But, surely, at some stage, right will become might, and they will either turn around or be obliterated.

        Given that this is The Guardian, is it a punch or is it a feint? Watch this space!

        In a sane society, the revelations by Dr John Bates should be the last nail in the coffin of the AGW scam. Let’s hope that it gets the support to become that.

        50

        • #

          When I see all this protesting about the Trump election, I wonder what would be happening if Hillary had have won and all the Trump supporters started doing what is happening now. They would have been mercilessly vilified by the media especially, and where are the Democrat politicians speaking out against this violence, all of them struck dumb, and just saying that ‘we are with the people.’

          I wonder how many of these people who are protesting now actually voted in the recent democratically run Presidential election. It seems to me that it’s only ‘democracy’ if your candidate wins.

          That was their answer to all this supposed bad feeling towards Trump. They had their answer to stop him being elected. All they had to do was vote. It seems that the Democrat Party supporters thought that ….. well, she’s going to win anyway, so my vote won’t make all that much difference.

          Incidentally, at this election, 55% of eligible voters actually went out and voted. Only 55% you say. Well, at the last election, when President Obama was returned for a second term, only 54% of eligible voters turned out.

          Ho hum!

          Says a lot for compulsory voting eh! Had that been the case in the U.S. Hillary would have bolted in with a huge landslide victory.

          (satire alert) All you can do is laugh. Democracy is so one sided, eh!

          Tony.

          60

    • #
      Gail Combs

      As one Trump supporter said. Trump is not our candidate, he is our WEAPON!

      This is something that is completely over looked. Right now leftist corporations like Macy’s, Nordstrom’s, Starbucks Coffee, Kelloggs and others are telling Trump supporters they are not wanted. Trump supporters are leaving and Macy’s for example is closing stores and stock prices are dipping.

      The progressives attacked L.L. Bean and now you can not get through on the phones to place orders and when you do the order takers will tell you they are inundated.

      Starbucks Coffee’s CEO Howard Schultz’ pledge to hire 10,000 refugees.

      Black Rifle Coffee Company, founded by veteran Evan Hafer, responded “We’re Hiring 10,000 Veterans”

      “We want to shift the conversation away from foreign policy to domestic issues that hit closer to home. We need to keep in mind that the four things we care about at BRCC are Family, Business, Veterans and country,” the company posted on its Instagram page. “And when we say ‘country’, the taxpayers. Everyone else can take a hike. Careers@blackriflecoffee.com.”

      I don’t drink coffee but I just might order some BRCC to give to friends…

      10

  • #
    pat

    hopefully my second comment with Newsweek and Daily Caller links is simply in moderation.

    I hope I have made the case that the Trump Administration at no time MANDATED that “scientific data published by the United States Environmental Protection Agency from last week going forward has to undergo review by political appointees before that data can be published”. it is a FakeNewsMSM beat-up.

    yet, theirABC, which will not report on a real scientist’s allegations re NOAA and all the followup to those allegations, has no problem with pushing the false claims of Finkel!

    AUDIO: 10mins: 7 Feb: ABC Breakfast: Fran Kelly: Top scientists sound alarm over Trump administration
    Australia’s Chief Scientist Alan Finkel has blasted the Trump administration—comparing the US President’s move to censor environmental data to Joseph Stalin’s attempts to control science…
    Alan Finkel says he was forced to speak out in support of science after the Trump administration ordered that scientific data published by the US Environmental Protection Agency or EPA be first vetted by his political appointees.
    AUDIO FINKEL

    FRAN THEN REPEATS TRUMP ADMIN ORDERED THE SCIENTIFIC DATA FROM EPA FIRST BE VETTED BY POLITICAL APPOINTEES.
    Guest: Professor Gordon McBean, President of the International Council for Science
    Fran asks about Trump/Stalin etc
    McBean: I wouldn’t use that analogy myself, but….blah blah…important people be informed by shows such as Fran’s!!!
    children, grandchildren blah blah…
    http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/top-scientists-sound-alarm-over-trump-administration/8246546

    AUDIO: 9mins59secs: ABC: Tim Flannery on censoring scientists
    Australia’s Chief Scientist Dr Alan Finkel went ‘off topic’ in a speech at the ANU yesterday when he compared US President Donald Trump’s efforts to censor environmental data to Stalin’s efforts in the USSR.
    Professor Tim Flannery, councillor with The Climate Council spoke with Genevieve Jacobs about the statement and the notion of a ‘war on science’.
    FLANNERY: I think the Chief Scientist’s comments were entirely justified…blah blah
    http://www.abc.net.au/radio/canberra/programs/mornings/tim-flannery-on-censoring-scientists/8247122

    71

  • #
    pat

    ditto Fairfax, who won’t touch Dr. John Bates’s allegations re NOAA!

    6 Feb: SMH: Marcus Strom: Trump reminiscent of Stalin says Australia’s chief scientist Alan Finkel as science ‘literally under attack’
    Speaking at a Chief Scientists’ roundtable discussion at the Australian National University on Monday, Dr Finkel made his comments saying he was “going off topic” as “science is literally under attack”…
    Dr Finkel said: “The Trump administration has mandated that scientific data published by the EPA [Environmental Protection Agency] must undergo review by political appointees before they can be published.”…
    The roundtable was addressed by the New Zealand chief scientific adviser, Peter Gluckman, and Britain’s former chief scientist John Beddington.
    The event was launched by the vice-chancellor of the Australian National University, Brian Schmidt, who lauded the role of the university, which was, in part to “fund ideas too dangerous to be funded outside the university”.
    Professor Schmidt, who is a supporter of the Science in Australia Gender Equity program, also lamented that “universities remain too male dominated”.
    http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci-tech/donald-trump-like-stalin-says-chief-scientist-alan-finkel-as-science–literally-under-attack-20170206-gu6f5w

    41

  • #
    pat

    Bulldust – comment #12 brings up Xiuhtezcatl Martinez who was a guest on ABC’s QandA last nite:

    he was asked by one Jack Nyhof:

    6 Feb: ABC Q&A: Trump, Climate Action and Youths
    The Questions:
    CLIMATE, COAL & YOUTH
    JACK NYHOF asked: I’m a 16-year-old high school student. I’m frustrated, angry, and scared political leaders aren’t doing enough. Our government supports fossil fuels and the construction of the biggest coal mine in the southern hemisphere. This disregards the land rights of Indigenous Australians and would be a climate catastrophe.
    Do you think the young people of Auralia should be suing our government for failing to act on climate change, violating its duty of care to the Australian people?

    from what I saw briefly online today, Tony Jones does not explain what an exploited little CAGW activist Nyhof is, however “cute” he may be – see pic at link below:

    Nov 2015: CentreforClimateSafety: Mik Aidt: Geelong teen to take centre stage on climate
    Jack Nyhof might be only 14 but on Friday he will take the stage alongside the Victorian Minister for Climate, a world-renowned climate scientist and other experts to deliver a key note speech at the opening night of the Act on Climate Festival in Geelong.
    Jack is a student at Geelong High School and as an advocate for climate action he already stands out at a national level. Cool Australia, which provides educational material to 200,000 Australian students, recently elected him as ‘Top Student Leader 2016’…
    Jack runs a community radio show on 94.7 The Pulse, he has founded a group called Earth People Animals, is a member of the new Geelong City Youth Environment Action Group as well as the Australia Youth Climate Coalition, and he acts an Ambassador for the Act On Climate Team which is signed up for Run Geelong on Sunday…
    BELOW:
    The Act on Climate Festival will be officially launched on Friday night at Simonds Stadium where Victorian Minister for Climate Lisa Neville will speak and be joined by Councillor Andy Richards, climate scientist David Karoly, former CEO of VIC Super Bob Welsh, Australian Conservation Foundation climate manager Victoria McKenzie-McHarg, ClimateWorks engagement manager Adam Majcher and teen sustainability change-maker Jack Nyhof, among others…
    http://climatesafety.info/geelong-teen-to-take-centre-stage-on-climate/

    Xiuhtezcatl Martinez also answered this seemingly staged question – if u watch Sewell asking it u’ll know what I mean:

    QandA: JAMES SEWELL asked: The stark contrast of our Prime Minister’s report, and President Trump’s tweet following their 25 minute conversation highlighted just how unconventional he is as a politician. While we may vehemently disagree with many of his policies and attitudes, his unashamed bravado is refreshing.
    In this era of identity politics, are there lessons that progressive voters and politicians can learn from a Trump presidency?

    Xiuhtezcatl Martinez says he brought people together to protest on the streets against this hateful, racist bigot. just another cute kid! ABC loves them.

    32

  • #
    Annie

    I think Alan Finkel is suffering from a bad case of projection.

    130

    • #
      John of Cloverdale, WA, Australia.

      Models over data, is his motto.
      As Michael Crichton said:
      “It is much easier for a scientist to sit in an air-conditioned building and run computer models, than to put on winter clothes and measure what is really happening outside in the swamps and the clouds. That is why the climate model experts end up believing their own models.”

      210

  • #
    George McFly......I'm your density

    As Australia’s Chief Scientist Alan Finkel is a serious waste of Oxygen

    101

    • #
      TdeF

      No, he converts the oxygen into Carbon Dioxide and all life on earth needs Carbon Dioxide, so he serves a purpose as a carbon life form. You might also hold him personally responsible for causing Global Warming by his breathing.

      However the CO2 output of breathing of the 1 Billion people in China is greater than our entire output as a country, so you could ignore his contribution and that of all our power stations. Surely the Chinese could relax and just breathe a little slower? However it is probably a lot safer to criticize the democratically elected US President.

      141

  • #
    Mark M

    If there really was a climate crisis, no one would need to put on lab coats and march around trying to sell it.

    190

    • #
      PeterS

      Good point. Also if the crisis was real then how come so many countries around the world are going ahead building hundreds more coal fired power stations? India alone is building over 100 of them and Japan over 40. People here are panicking if anyone dares mention the possibility of building just one here in Australia. We must be the only country in the world continuing with anti-coal BS. Time we build at least one new coal fired power station in each and every state for reliable base load power.

      110

  • #

    I hope they sack this idiot who seems not know that nothing in science is fixed.

    Every hypothesis needs to be constantly checked to make sure that it is still valid. When something better comes along, it should be taken on board and kept under scrutiny.

    102

  • #
    Brian J. Baker

    Don’t worry, he will soon be like the men carry “The End is Nigh” placards down Oxford Street, hopefully in Canberra earning similar sums.

    51

  • #
    PhilJourdan

    He knows full well about his war on science. But he is merely trying to move the pea. This is not about honesty and integrity. This is about fooling the public.

    The scary part is when some of the clowns start believing their own propaganda.

    100

  • #
    Lewis P Buckingham

    Of course Trump’s administrators of the EPA are political appointees.
    So were Obama’s.
    That’s how the USA works.
    They then, as in Obama’s days, back the President who appointed them.
    Just as happened in Obama’s days.
    There are two differences.
    First in the ‘old days’ the Democrats who went to Washington were poor, the salaries were incredible.
    The Democrats represented the poor of the USA.
    The Republicans were the elites, they dropped salary by working for government in Washington.
    Now the Republican President has rejected the elites in the Democrats and Republicans.
    In that sense he represents the poor unemployed, while Hilary lost the key 4 million voters she needed to win,many of them poor in ‘battleground states’.
    These had voted for Obama in their droves.
    The second difference is that Trump is not convinced that the USA is doomed by climate change.
    He’s agnostic, no believer here.
    However he does know that shutting down reliable cheaper power will send his constituency broke, which is bad for business, bad for the poor and terminal for him politically.
    He also keeps his promises.
    The parlous scientific situation in the USA is a wake up call to us all.
    Eventually scientists will be told to publish data and retain algorithms for future replication.
    As recently exposed in the Bates’ files,they can use unstable programming, then let their computer be destroyed, as happened with Karl.
    But for his ‘work’, we would never have had an incentive to go down the ‘renewables’ trial so quickly.
    We may not have the situation besetting us in SA.

    ‘ Devastating new testimony from John Bates, a whistleblowing senior scientist at America’s main climate agency, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, alleges that scientists themselves have been indulging in alternative facts, fake news and policy-based evidence…’

    Hopefully the Trump gate keepers on science will insist on rigorous quality control and analysis.
    Things just have to get better than they were under the previous slack administration.

    80

  • #
    Ruairi

    The warmist fake science held sway,
    And for years using threats had their way,
    Having never foreseen,
    That a change of regime,
    Would give climate-change skeptics their say.

    240

  • #
    graphicconception

    Apologies, I can’t find a link but I am sure I saw something recently about US government website standards for data accuracy and the issue was that much of what was on the EPA website was not compliant.

    So much of this whinging by the alarmists is actually unjustified. They should be rejoicing that the data is being made compliant.

    60

  • #
    Harry Passfield

    I do wish these [snip] – and history-challenged [snip] – would make up their minds: Is Trump like Hitler or Stalin? Or don’t they see the dichotomy of their puerile comparisons. (Of course, they don’t, they’re snowflakes).

    [If you avoid what I snipped you won't end up in moderation. Even letting your anger show can sometimes lessen the impact of what you say.] AZ

    30

    • #
      Harry Passfield

      My apologies, Mods, for ‘showing anger’ (‘tho I wasn’t angry when I made the comment). Unfortunately, I am now unable to remember the precise words you snipped so I cannot now know what was so appalling about them. That said, I’ll try to stay within rules in future. Cheers.

      10

  • #
    Roy Hogue

    “The Trump administration has mandated that scientific data published by the United States Environmental Protection Agency from last week going forward has to undergo review by political appointees before that data can be published on the EPA website or elsewhere,” he said.

    If that is exactly what Trump ordered then I would not like it myself. A political appointee” is too undefined, not to mention ridiculous. I haven’t yet found the actual order by Trump but I rather suspect it’s not so simple minded as to say what Australia’s chief scientist says it says.

    The EPA is out of control and needs reining in. You start by stopping them from dong anything more until the science is thoroughly reviewed by qualified people. You establish review standards and do the review. Then you decide who to fire and who not to fire. Then you put sound people in control and can let the EPA run without a daily hand of the reins. But you never let any executive branch department or any of their parts go continuously without review — NEVER! That’s the road that got us to where we are now.

    And where has congress been? The single most important job they have is oversight of everything going on in the entire Federal Government. They have been AWOL!

    50

    • #
      Roy Hogue

      Why do things always get to the point where the voters are angry before something is done about corruption and plain old incompetence?

      And even then the problems may not get fixed. Two plus weeks in and President Trump has an army of opponents intent on stopping him and the VP has to break the tie in the senate to confirm one of the best possible choices for education secretary I can imagine. Betsy DeVoss has more good judgment in her little finger than most of us have in our whole heads. This is insanity.

      50

      • #
        Greg Cavanagh

        “Why do things always get to the point where the voters are angry before something is done about corruption and plain old incompetence?”

        That’s easy to answer. Politicians are the lead corrupt individuals of society. And it’s the politicians that create the laws.

        Imagine a large prison letting the inmates write the rules for governing the inmates of the prison; and you’ll understand why politicians write laws that they then avoid while enriching themselves many times over within their term of office.

        I’ve come to the conclusion that the police force are simple people too. They don’t have a collage degree, their training is what? 12 weeks and on the job training? They are too unskilled and unknowledgeable to tackle corporate crimes, let alone take on a power hungry aggressive psychopath in a position of power. The police are impotent with large scale corporate crimes.

        The politicians know this, they know the people are easily fooled, they know the media is dumber than a bucket of water, they know their lies are believed. And they have no heart or conscience to bother them.

        This is why “things always get to the point where the voters are angry before something is done”.

        30

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      Roy, that’s fake news. It’s been changed.

      30

    • #
      PhilJourdan

      I haven’t yet found the actual order by Trump

      That should tell you all you need to know about the quote. If they cannot reference it, and you cannot find it, it is fake news.

      00

  • #
    Robdel

    How sad that the Chief Scientist tas turned out to be an El Fink. Instead of upholding scientific integrity he has caved in to the current PC on climate.

    53

  • #
    nicholas tesdorf

    Australia’s Chief Scientist, Alan Finkel is more like Stalin’s Lysenko than he thinks.
    Trofim Denisovich Lysenko was born 29 September 1898 in Karlivka and died 20 November 1976.
    He was a Soviet agrobiologist. As a student Lysenko worked on a project involving the effects of temperature variation on the life-cycle of plants. This later led him to consider how he might use this work to convert winter wheat into spring wheat. He named the process “jarovization” in Russian, and later translated it as “vernalization”. Lysenko was a strong proponent of soft inheritance and rejected the Mendelian genetics in favor of pseudoscientific ideas termed “Lysenkoism”.
    His earned the support of the Soviet leader Joseph Stalin, especially following the famine and loss of productivity resulting from resistance to Stalin’s forced collectivization in several regions of the Soviet Union in the early 1930s. In 1940, Lysenko became director of the Institute of Genetics within the USSR’s Academy of Sciences, and the exercise of political influence and power further secured his anti-Mendelian doctrines in Soviet science and education. Scientific dissent from Lysenko’s theories of environmentally acquired inheritance was formally outlawed in the Soviet Union in 1948.
    Lysenko remained at his post in the Institute of Genetics until 1965 but his influence on Soviet agricultural practice had declined by the 1950s.
    Lysenko’s pseudo-science of Lysenkoism is the exact parallel of the current CAGW Alarmism favoured by Alan Finkel, Australia’s Chief Scientist.

    81

    • #
      Ted O'Brien.

      So often the accuser is guilty of the crime himself.

      Just look at those screaming that Trump will destroy the data. They have already destroyed it themselves and want us to believe that Trump did it.

      61

  • #
    David Maddison

    Dear climate alarmists. We will never forget or forgive what you did and are still doing.

    http://www.xyz.net.au/dear-climate-alarmists-will-never-forget-forgive/

    51

  • #
    Fin (South Australia)

    Off topic, I know, but I’ve seen no comment so far: this morning (Wed.) ABC News was breathlessly reporting from Timmy’s Mickey Mouse Club, aka the Climate Council, that presently a few hot summer days were, of course, due to “climate change”.

    Silly to even mention it but no other opinion was sought and no explanation of what constitutes the Climate Council was given. No doubt the impression it wants to give is that the CC is so important and well known that none is needed.

    I’m looking forward to some sort of “watch” being set up to immediately question the claims the ABC propagates, and why something as amateurish as the CC is given instant access to the ABC. Yes, naïve, I know.

    91

    • #
      toorightmate

      They are too busy reporting “toxic coal” at Hay Point.
      Can anyone enlighten me as to what is “toxic coal”?

      30

  • #
    PeterS

    The chief scientist and his cohorts are getting angry at the wrong person. According to them and many other alarmists the world is still warming up too dangerously. In fact if one were to believe their nonsense we ought to have a climate disaster very soon and time has already run out for the world to react. Instead the world is going to have hundreds more new coal fired power stations over the coming years. How come the chief scientist isn’t exploding with curses and insults at the nations building these massive amounts of power stations, such as India, China, Japan, etc. instead of focusing his attention on Trump? Trump is not the person responsible for building all those power stations. He needs to be questioned about this.

    91

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      Also Germany, Poland, Indonesia, Sth. Africa, Vietnam, Sth. Korea, Botswana, Mozambique, Zimbabwe, Tanzania, Chile, Myanmar, Cambodia, Pakistan, Morrocco, Turkey, Kazarkhstan, Romania, Greece, Ukraine, Bosnia-Hertzegovia, Hungary, Italy,

      Come On, be a smarty,
      Join the coal-fired party.

      90

      • #
        PeterS

        Yes indeed. It looks like we are the only country in the world who is stupid enough to go down the road of pulling down their only means to generate base load power. Virtually everyone else is building more coal fired and/or nuclear power stations. If we had a decent PM he would put a moratorium on any more solar/wind generation systems and divert funding to build coal fired power stations and possibly even look into the new generation nuclear ones if the costs are acceptable (probably not). I sense common sense will eventually prevail in years to come and someone will have to act out the bleeding obvious – refurbish or build more coal fired power stations to keep using some of our own cheap coal as well as keep shipping it to other countries.

        70

  • #
    John of Cloverdale WA

    Good column by Miranda Devine on NOAA mess and the politicization of climate “science” today in the West Australian newspaper. Unfortunately pay-walled. Damn it!

    40

  • #
    pat

    talk about spooky!

    7 Feb repeat 12 Feb: AUDIO 23mins15secs: BBC The Inquiry: Can You Believe What You Read on WikiLeaks?
    publishing secret documents and material obtained from whistleblowers and other sources. Many of the confidential files published by WikiLeaks have been revelatory. The site has frequently made news around the world. But in 2016 Wikileaks published hacked emails relating to Hillary Clinton and her presidential bid. Those leaks appeared to serve the interests of the Trump campaign and were – according to US intelligence – probably provided to Wikileaks by Russian sources. So, this week on The Inquiry, we’re asking: can you believe what you read on WikiLeaks?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04rcytc

    WikiLeaks had nothing to do with Climategate, yet:

    Intro: Assange as propaganda agent of Russia! they published blah blah…hundreds of private emails from leading climate scientists – we’ll talk more about that later.

    7mins in, difficult to spot facts from fakes, or know what is missing. in 2009, Wikileaks published a bundle of shocking emails, leaked from inside the CRU at UEA UK, one of the world’s leading authorities on global temperatures.
    Daniel Domscheit-Berg (ex-Wikileaks): it APPEARS TO BE blah blah…that climate may not be changing blah blah.
    BBC: climate sceptics jumped on them – James Inhofe blah blah…
    BBC: the emails called into question the integrity of climate science; it was a huge scoop for Wikileaks, BUT THEN…
    Daniel Domscheit-Berg: the researchers from the University said sorry, but this is not the full story.
    BBC: investigators later agreed, concluding that the collection of emails was incomplete and taken out of context.
    Daniel Domscheit-Berg: and that’s one way you can manipulate information and perception of the public very easily.
    BBC: the Climategate emails hadn’t been fake, but they hadn’t given the full picture either. Daniel Domscheit-Berg says the episode made clear that his small team was struggling under the weight of material arriving at Wikileaks.

    Fairfax “reporter” American Chris Zappone then goes on about US presidential election. Wikileaks/DNC/Podesta leaks anti-Clinton.
    BBC: the contents he (Zappone) says weren’t all that revelatory; the bigger story was the timing.
    Zappone: the stream of embarrassing material…tactic to it.
    BBC/Obama/Zappone: Russian hackers.
    (scary music) BBC: the US authorities believe Russia was trying to influence the American election through Wikileaks.
    Zappone: Assange has had a show on RT…has helped Snowden get to Russia, counselled him to go to Russia blah blah.
    BBC: Assange told Fox our source is “not the Russian State”, not a “state entity”… if u pay close attention to what Assange says, it leaves open the possibility his source was Russian, & Zappone agrees…
    BBC ends: so can u believe what u read on Wikileaks. yes, probably, but u can’t be sure who wanted u to read it and why.

    (Zappone’s anti-Trump, anti-Russia, anti-Abbott/Hanson twitter page will tell u everything u need to know about him)

    CRU emails “incomplete” is such a ridiculous piece of nonsense – should all their emails have been leaked?

    DNC/Podesta email not all that “revelatory” – LOL – well, not if u don’t report on them, I guess that’s true…to u in the FakeNews business.

    41

    • #
      PeterS

      Thanks to Trump we ought to see a lot of exploding heads in the alarmist camp. I also hope to see some behind bars for committing the greatest fraud ever. I sincerely hope to see many “top” scientists there too.

      50

    • #
      pat

      should have added BBC uses old Obama quote about Russia hacking DNC etc, BUT am sure BBC knows of this parting shot from Obama:

      8mins to 8mins30secs Obama mentions inconclusive Russia “hacked”, & then mentions “DNC emails that were LEAKED”

      18 Jan: YouTube: President Obama Holds his Final Press Conference
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OaWeQ6Sw1Y

      18 Jan: Obama White House: Remarks by the President in Final Press Conference
      OBAMA: First of all, I haven’t commented on WikiLeaks, generally. The conclusions of the intelligence community with respect to the Russian hacking were not conclusive as to whether WikiLeaks was witting or not in being the conduit through which we heard about the DNC emails that were LEAKED.

      FakeNewsMSM ignored this, but dozens of alternative newsites picked it up, even the generally anti-Russian former UK Ambassador to Uzbekistan, Craig Murray, who claims he (on behalf of WikiLeaks) was given the Clinton campaign emails in a DC park while on a visit to the US:

      Stunning Admission from Obama on Wikileaks. DNC Emails, “Leaked” but “Not Hacked”
      by Craig Murray
      Center for Research on Globalization-20 Jan. 2017
      Most crucially of all Obama refers to “The DNC emails that were leaked”. Note “leaked” and not “hacked”…
      I have been repeating that this was a leak, not a hack, until I am blue in the face. William Binney, former Technical Director of the NSA, has asserted that were it a hack the NSA would be able to give the precise details down to the second it occurred, and it is plain from the reports released they have no such information. Yet the media has persisted with this nonsense “Russian hacking” story.
      Obama’s reference to the “the DNC emails that were leaked” appears very natural, fluent and unforced. It is good to have the truth finally told.

      Alleged Russian Hack: Obama Says DNC Emails ‘Were Leaked’ In Parting Remarks
      The Inquisitr-19 Jan. 2017

      40

  • #
    Robert Rosicka

    OT , their ABC is running a story from the climate council about the doom and gloom if we don’t reduce our emissions and go 60% renewables and fast .
    Noticed they have stopped the rhetoric about more cyclones but now say there will be less but more severe and will travel further south .

    60

  • #
    Cynic of Ayr

    Finkel says, “…in the United States and urged his colleagues to keep giving “frank and fearless” advice despite the political opposition.”

    Ah…. when are they gunna start actually doing this, Finkel?

    60

  • #
    Ivor Surveyor

    There is no way a lay person can judge this issue. There has been for some time criticism by named scientists of the methodology used by various met-offices.
    Some of the critics of Global warming have important scientific credentials which they are not going to endanger by frivolous claims. On the other hand, it is very serious to claim that NOAA, BOM etc. are deliberately lying. I think more likely that NOAA etc. see the data in the paradigm of global warming. Anything that is not “global warming” is by some strange psychological mechanism discarded.
    The only solution as I see it is for President Trump to call a for a Presidential Enquiry, analogous to a Royal Commission so that the experts can debate under oath and be cross examined.

    60

    • #
      Mark D.

      There is no way a lay person can judge this issue.

      Ivor, may I say welcome!

      Then say: WHAT?

      Lay people DID judge this “issue”. That is how and why Trump is now is President.

      On the other hand, it is very serious to claim that NOAA, BOM etc. are deliberately lying. I think more likely that NOAA etc. see the data in the paradigm of global warming. Anything that is not “global warming” is by some strange psychological mechanism discarded.

      See the data in the “paradigm”?

      Sure like the teenager returning hours after curfew.

      Do not let the teenager excuse themselves from their responsibilities!

      40

      • #
        Lionell Griffith

        Anything that is not “global warming” is by some strange psychological mechanism discarded.

        The “strange psychological mechanism” is the irrational compulsion to believe the thing can be changed by changing its name This compulsion is derived from Post Modern Philosophy. It is a philosophy in which reality is not knowable but something called “social knowledge” is. Truth is to be established by a consensus of selected “experts”. Mere mortal ordinary people are not considered as members of the “expert” class and must shut up, sit down, and pay all the bills.

        60

    • #
      Greg Cavanagh

      You might not be willing to wade into the data and background, but it’s right up the ally of some individuals. Don’t generalise onto others you’re own skill levels.

      Anybody, including yourself, could dig into the matter and find the truth for themselves, if you were so inclined. It just takes time and effort. Just because you don’t want to put in the time and effort to sort the wheat from the chaff, doesn’t mean others can’t or don’t.

      30

    • #
      el gordo

      ‘There is no way a lay person can judge this issue.’

      Strongly disagree.

      ‘There has been for some time criticism by named scientists of the methodology used by various met-offices.’

      That’s news to me, do you have a link?

      ‘Anything that is not “global warming” is by some strange psychological mechanism discarded.’

      They have brainwashed themselves into catastrophism theory, its unfortunate for all of us.

      10

    • #
      Gail Combs

      Tony Heller just did a bang up presentation for the Washington State politicians. It is simple, straight forward, easy to understand and a real killer.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=cSrfyAjcq-o

      His slides:

      https://app.leg.wa.gov/CMD/document.aspx?agency=7&year=2017&cid=17641&mid=26868&hid=200159

      I put up the slides and ran through them listening to the audio from the video running in a different window.

      10

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        G’day Gail.
        Instead of a Canadian how about a Chief Scientist? Very cheap, we will get up a subscription to pay you to take him, but no guarantee that his work will be satisfactory. Possibly he could substitute for a mule, although probably best near the front fence attracting attention from city tourists, especially in the hunting season when he might save valuable stock.

        00

  • #
    Trevor

    A friend posted on FB an article from XYZ on AGW.
    It has attracted attention from Marc McGill scientist of Penn State.
    Scroll down to his comment in the main line and join in or any other thread there.
    “Will all you deniers accept responsibility when it becomes totally obvious you were wrong?…..”

    Apparently we don’t need a PhD, we “simply just have to go outside” to see the clear evidence of AGW. Not sure how.

    Love to see you there.

    60

    • #
      el gordo

      This NOAA thing is getting remarkable traction, a green blob associate reckons its ‘fake news’ and put up Robert’s story (Ice Age Now) as proof.

      So now the zealots are talking and thinking, its all happening faster than I ever imagined. Thank you Donald the Great.

      60

    • #
      PhilJourdan

      I would reflect the question back on him. Is he willing to accept responsibility when he is proved wrong.

      He has 2 choices. He can proclaim that he cannot be wrong – which is then equating himself to God. or he can say yes.

      My bet is the former. Alarmists are vengeful gods.

      10

  • #
    Rod Stuart

    Australia has a long history of picking a “Chief scientist” with no understanding of science at all.
    Remember this one?

    20

  • #
    David Maddison

    Everything in the world is upside down (except the things Trump is fixing).

    Who’d have thought we’d have a Chief “Scientist” at war with science and the scientific method and making false accusations against the POTUS?

    41

  • #
    Lewis P Buckingham

    What is more concerning about this debate is that the Citizens of SA are being used as guinea pigs in a real time trial.
    The trial is to make renewables work to power their homes and fading industry.

    Even in biological sciences you would not do this to a piggery or poultry shed.
    You would experiment on something inanimate.
    Any ethics committee would reject such a plan.
    Its a good idea to tour the world and see what other mistakes are being made in other countries.
    One is better to learn by other’s mistakes, rather than have object lessons in mismanagement in SA.
    We need a plebiscite on some of the planks underlying the narrative of CO2 driven warming theory.
    A good start would be to ask citizen’s opinion on the sending of our borrowed cash to the UN climate funds to slow global warming.
    Another would be to ask if we want to contribute personally to subsidising wind farms to save the planet through increased electricity tariffs.
    We could start a process here of drafting such questions and have them laid out as a move forward in the debate on reliability of energy supply.

    50

    • #
      Graeme No.3

      I am typing this in semi-darkness as the electricity cut out 15 minutes ago in the Adelaide Hills. Just the unannounced but usual blackout we have to put up with.
      I hope Dopey Dan in Vic. and Anastasia anaesthesia in Qld. Get the same benefit when they start using renewables.

      30

      • #
        Graeme No.3

        Hi! It was just the usual half hour “load shedding” interruption. It didn’t stop me watching the ABC or SBS news because I never do. Fortunately it came back on in time for me to read the Attenborough repeat on Channel 1 about small brained apes wasn’t about the SA Cabinet as I assumed, so I can use the laptop instead.

        30

  • #
    Bulldust

    I happened to be looking at the BoM temperatures for Perth yesterday (I check them reasonably frequently for personal reasons) and noticed something quite remarkable. On Feb 7 the Perth readings went as follows (all temps in C):

    09:30AM – 27.8
    10:00AM – 28.5
    10:30AM – 30.3
    11:00AM – 27.3
    11:30AM – 26.9
    Source http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDW60901/IDW60901.94608.shtml

    That’s a three degree drop in half an hour between 10:30AM and 11:00AM. Now it does coincide with a rapid change in wind direction and speed (presumably a front pushing through). So I thought I’d check the airport, being another inland station not too far from the Perth one:

    09:30AM – 27.2
    10:00AM – 27.5
    10:30AM – 28.5
    11:00AM – 28.5
    11:30AM – 28.7
    Link: http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDW60901/IDW60901.94610.shtml

    The temperatures at the airport are a lot more stable. The latter is more typical of what you’d expect, at least based on my previous experience. The airport shows a similar change in wind direction and speed as the Perth station.

    Presumably 30.3C is recorded as the day time high for Perth despite being an anomaly compared to the rest of the day. TBH I usually don’t scrutinise the temperatures to this degree, mostly I look to see if the AC is required to sleep through the night etc.

    30

  • #
    pat

    not surprised Murdoch’s WSJ has the original story, but surely Trump would not go along with this:

    7 Feb: LA Times: AP: Senior GOP figures are pushing the White House to consider carbon tax to fight climate change
    A group of Republican senior statesmen is pushing for a carbon tax to combat the effects of climate change and hoping to sell the plan to the White House.
    Former Secretary of State James A. Baker is leading the effort, which also includes former Secretary of State George Shultz. In an opinion piece published Tuesday night in the Wall Street Journal, they argued that “there is mounting evidence of problems with the atmosphere that are growing too compelling to ignore.”
    The group will meet Wednesday with White House officials, including Vice President Mike Pence, senior advisor Jared Kushner and Gary Cohn, director of the National Economic Council. Ivanka Trump, the president’s daughter and Kushner’s wife, is also expected to attend, according to a person familiar with the plans who was not authorized to discuss the meeting publicly…

    According to an outline of the plan, the group will call for a gradually increasing carbon tax that “might begin at $40 a ton and increase steadily over time.” It would raise $200 billion to $300 billion annually. The plan would then redistribute tax proceeds back to consumers on a quarterly basis in what are called “carbon dividends” that could be approximately $2,000 annually for a family of four…
    The group’s plan would also set “border adjustments” based on carbon, which would result in fees for products from countries without similar carbon pricing systems. And it would seek to roll back regulations enacted under President Obama, including the Clean Power Plan.
    So far, President Trump has sent mixed signals on whether or how he will try to slow Earth’s warming temperatures and rising sea levels…
    The White House press office did not immediately respond to request for comment.

    Also supporting Baker’s effort, according to a person familiar with the plans, are former Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson; Greg Mankiw, who chaired George W. Bush’s Council of Economic Advisors; and Martin Feldstein, chairman of President Reagan’s Council of Economic Advisors.
    Also on the list are former Wal-Mart Chairman Rob Walton; Thomas Stephenson, a partner at the venture capital firm Sequoia Capital; and Ted Halstead, founder of New America and the Climate Leadership Council…
    Carbon tax legislation is unlikely to receive a warm welcome in the GOP-controlled Congress, where Republicans were staunchly opposed to Obama’s climate agenda…
    1 COMMENT ONLY:
    mtermann: “Senior GOP figures,” Senior statesmen”? More like a bunch of crusty old tools of the corporatists trying to stay relevant. Isn’t it time for country-club Repubs to just go away?
    http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-gop-carbon-tax-20170207-story.html

    11

  • #
    pat

    to say Daily Mail is a huge disappointment, is putting it mildly. u break the John Bates/NOAA story, while reporting every bit of CAGW rubbish “out there”:

    4 Feb: UK Daily Mail: Phoebe Weston: The three theories of the APOCALYPSE: Researchers say pandemics, climate change and nuclear war could wipe out the world unless leaders take action
    Experts at Oxford University outlined events which could annihilate humanity
    Their report said there was not enough being done to stop us being wiped out
    The 3 key risks they highlighted are pandemics, climate change and nuclear war
    The warning comes from a new report, produced by Oxford University…
    The report was carried out by the Future of Humanity Institute (FHI), which is part of the Faculty of Philosophy at Oxford University…

    7 Feb: UK Daily Mail: AFP: Climate change could overload the US electrical grid: Experts warn increased demand for aircons could cause major blackouts
    Hotter areas are expected to use more aircon units and other cooling kit
    Report found it will cost $180 billion to upgrade grid
    ‘These estimates show that the existing papers focusing solely on consumption … ignore(s) a large portion of the likely costs of climate change,’ said the report, led by scientists at the University of California, Berkeley; Stanford University, the University of Michigan and the University of British Columbia.

    7 Feb: UK Daily Mail: Colin Fernandez: Has climate hit cricket for six? Sport could be under threat after bad weather causes £3.5m of damage to 57 clubs across the UK
    Two cricket clubs in Yorkshire and Cumbria have not returned to their grounds
    130-year-old Corbridge Cricket Club demolished their flooded clubhouse
    Lord’s is the first cricket ground in the country to run on renewable energy
    Cricket could be under threat as extreme weather linked to climate change has caused nearly £3.5million worth of damage at 57 clubs, warned experts…
    The warning came in a report by the Climate Coalition of organisations and charities…
    Professor ***Piers Forster, director of the Priestley Centre for Climate, which analysed the report, said: ‘UK weather will always bowl us the odd googly but climate change is making them harder to defend against.’…

    ***Wikipedia: Piers Forster
    Piers Forster is Professor of Physical Climate Change and Director of the Priestley International Centre for Climate at the University of Leeds…
    He has contributed heavily to the writing of Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change reports, including acting as a Lead Author for both the IPCC Fourth Assessment Report [3] and IPCC Fifth Assessment Report…
    He has a number of UK government and industry roles…

    21

  • #
    pat

    scientists as politicians:

    6 Feb: NYT: In Age of Trump, Scientists Show Signs of a Political Pulse
    By AMY HARMON and HENRY FOUNTAIN
    Michael Eisen, an evolutionary biologist, is among the elite of American scientists, with a tenured position at the University of California, Berkeley, and generous funding from the Howard Hughes Medical Institute for his research on fruit flies.
    But late last month, dismayed over the Trump administration’s apparent disdain for evidence on climate change and other issues, Dr. Eisen registered the Twitter handle @SenatorPhD and declared his intention to run in the 2018 election for a seat in the United States Senate from California. His campaign slogan: “Liberty, Equality, Reality.”…

    “There are many conversations going on right now,” said Naomi Oreskes, a historian of science at Harvard who spoke at one of the first scientist-led anti-Trump protests, a rally in San Francisco during the annual meeting of the American Geophysical Union in December. “Many scientists do feel that the time for sitting on the sidelines is past.”…
    A political action committee that seeks to get more scientists and engineers to run for elective office, 314 Action (LINK), has seen a surge of interest in its programs, with more than 2,000 people registering at its website. The group is planning a training program for scientist-candidates, whether they want to run for local or state offices or Congress…

    Other scientists have organized demonstrations — including a ***march now set for Earth Day, April 22 …
    Although he said he was speaking only for himself, Myron Ebell, who headed the E.P.A. transition but left on Jan. 19, said in a recent interview that science within the agency had become too politicized.
    “I’m a great believer in science,” Mr. Ebell said, “but I’m not a great believer in politicized science.”…
    Many scientists would argue that it is climate deniers and others who are politicized…
    Some scientists have objected to plans for the Washington march, arguing that the event will feed the view among many conservatives that scientists have a political agenda…
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/06/science/donald-trump-scientists-politics.html

    March for Science Twitter page is always good for a laugh:

    ***Twitter: March for Science: Planning a March for Science on April 22, 2017. We’ll let you know when official merchandise is out to cover march costs.
    Tweets:
    6 Feb: Official #ScienceMarch gear is here!…
    3 Feb: Mike MacFerrin: @ScienceMarchDC #actuallivingscientist Our team, studying how Greenland’s surface mass balance goes haywire in a rapidly warming climate.
    5 Feb: MarchForScience: #ScienceMarch loves NASA!
    5 Feb: #ScienceMarch loves NASA!
    28 Jan: MarchForScience Tweet: colonization, racism, immigration, native rights, sexism, ableism, queer-, trans-, intersex-phobia, & econ justice are scientific issues…
    we’re also working to centralize diversity in our speakers & issues addressed at @ScienceMarchDC #DiversityInSTEM…
    we’re reorganizing planning team to centralize diversity – for leadership positions & at all levels of org #DiversityInSTEM #ScienceMarch…
    hi, all – we’ve been reading & taking seriously all yr impt criticsm of @ScienceMarchDC not centralizing & lacking diversity #ScienceMarch…
    https://twitter.com/sciencemarchdc?lang=en

    11

  • #
    pat

    7 Feb: InsideClimateNews: Neela Banerjee: Russia and the U.S. Could Be Partners in Climate Change Inaction
    The only big emitter to not ratify the Paris climate agreement, Russia may find it easier to slough off climate action with the U.S. matching its oil-focused view
    Russia is the fifth-largest emitter of greenhouse gases in the world. Yet the plan it submitted under the Paris agreement to reduce its greenhouse gas emissions by 2020 is one of the weakest of any government and actually permits Russia to increase carbon pollution over time. The Paris agreement went into effect last November, but Russia is the only major emitter that has not ratified it. Instead, it has laid out a timetable that would delay ratification for almost three years.
    “Russia will not artificially accelerate the process of ratification of the Paris climate agreement,” Russia’s special presidential representative on climate, Alexander Bedritsky, said last September…

    In fact, Russia’s greenhouse gas emissions have been rising by about 1 percent a year since 2000, according to a 2016 paper based on data from the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC).
    “These targets have basically allowed the economy to develop along business-as-usual lines,” the Norwegian authors wrote…

    It appears unlikely that Russia will rein in emissions or the expansion of the oil and gas industry, which contributes about half the revenues to the domestic budget. Oil production on land is falling, so Russia is looking to tap the vast petroleum and gas reserves offshore in the Arctic. A friendly administration in Washington could help. In 2011, Russia and ExxonMobil, under chief executive Rex Tillerson, signed a $500 billion deal to develop oil and gas in the Russian Arctic…
    So far, Russia has viewed emissions reduction as only an exercise in energy efficiency, not in deploying renewable energy, except for hydroelectric power, Kokorin wrote…
    https://insideclimatenews.org/news/06022017/russia-vladimir-putin-donald-trump-climate-change-paris-climate-agreement

    6 Feb: The Hill: Overnight Energy: GOP tees up more Obama energy rules for repeal
    By Timothy Cama and Devin Henry
    Dozens of current EPA employees joined a protest against Pruitt outside the EPA’s regional headquarters in Chicago on Monday, ThinkProgress reports (LINK).
    “People feel pretty beleaguered,” union representative Nicole Cantello said of the protest…
    OIL LOBBY LOOKS TO CONSUMERS: Did you see the American Petroleum Institute’s commercial during the Super Bowl on Sunday?
    API has launched a new campaign looking to talk directly to American consumers about the wide-ranging uses for the oil industry’s products.
    Its goal is to show how deeply modern life and major industries are tied to and depend on oil and natural gas…
    API said the ad is just the start of a new campaign that will run for years…
    http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/overnights/318157-overnight-energy-more-rule-resolutions-due-this-week

    7 Feb: Guardian: Graham Readfearn: How Cory Bernardi was inspired to push climate denial from US conservative groups
    Climate science denial group the Heartland Institute helped inspire Cory Bernardi and Malcolm Roberts to push back against policies to cut emissions
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/planet-oz/2017/feb/07/how-cory-bernardi-was-inspired-to-push-climate-denial-from-us-conservative-groups

    11

  • #
    pat

    7 Feb: Guardian: In Australia and the US, sound climate policy is being held hostage by vested interests
    We must shift away from a culture of politically motivated climate change denialism to an acceptance of the truly existential threat now facing humanity
    by ***Michael Mann and Christopher Wright (Professor of Organisational Studies and leader of the Balanced Enterprise Research Network at the University of Sydney Business School)

    It’s been a bad couple of weeks for the world’s climate and environment. The inauguration of billionaire property developer and reality TV star Donald Trump as the 45th President of the United States has presaged a new Dark Age of climate politics…

    In the US and Australia, we must shift away from a culture of politically motivated climate change denialism to an acceptance of the truly existential threat now facing humanity…
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/07/in-australia-and-the-us-sound-climate-policy-is-being-held-hostage-by-vested-interests

    8 Feb: NYT: A Conservative Case for Climate Action
    By MARTIN S. FELDSTEIN, TED HALSTEAD and N. GREGORY MANKIW
    (Martin S. Feldstein was the chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers under President Ronald Reagan and N. Gregory Mankiw was the chairman under President George W. Bush. Ted Halstead is the founder and chief executive of the Climate Leadership Council.)

    CRAZY as it may sound, this is the perfect time to enact a sensible policy to address the dangerous threat of climate change. Before you call us nuts, hear us out…
    In comes President Trump, who seems much less concerned about the risks of climate change, and more worried about how excessive regulation impedes economic growth and depresses living standards…

    By contrast, an ideal climate policy would reduce carbon emissions, limit regulatory intrusion, promote economic growth, help working-class Americans and prove durable when the political winds change. We have laid out such a plan in a paper to be released Wednesday by the Climate Leadership Council (LINK)…

    Our co-authors include James A. Baker III, Treasury secretary for President Ronald Reagan and secretary of state for President George H. W. Bush; Henry M. Paulson Jr., Treasury secretary for President George W. Bush; George P. Shultz, Treasury secretary for President Richard Nixon and secretary of state for Mr. Reagan; Thomas Stephenson, a partner at Sequoia Capital, a venture-capital firm; and Rob Walton, who recently completed 23 years as chairman of Walmart.
    Our plan is built on four pillars…READ ON
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/08/opinion/a-conservative-case-for-climate-action.html

    12

  • #
    Crakar24

    Load shed conditions in SA expecting power outage any minute, why?

    Our 1.5 gw wind plant is germerating 60 mW.

    All you green fu$%%&&%tards caused this hope this happy now?????.

    52

  • #
    Steve borodin

    Once upon a time the scientists used to quote evidence and criticise journalist for sensationalism. Now roles are reversed. Can the author of this infantile rant be challenged to produce? He reminds me of that other child, Cox.

    40

  • #
    Robert Rosicka

    Just been challenged to name six policy’s of the liberal / national party where they are trying to out green the greens .
    I forgot about Finkel !

    21

  • #

    A climate alarmist compares scepticism to Lysenkoism in the USSR, which, before the global warming movement, was the biggest example of state-funded pseudo-scientific groupthink.

    The definition of chutzpah used to be, a man who murdered his parents asking for clemency on the grounds that he’s an orphan.

    20

  • #
  • #

    They were duped – and so were we. That was the conclusion of last week’s damning revelation that world leaders signed the Paris Agreement on climate change under the sway of unverified and questionable data.

    A landmark scientific paper –the one that caused a sensation by claiming there has been NO slowdown in global warming since 2000 – was critically flawed. And thanks to the bravery of a whistleblower, we now know that for a fact.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-4216180/How-trust-global-warming-scientists-asks-David-Rose.html#ixzz4YcMq2oMS
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    00